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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Breaking news: Gardner in CF

Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Mar 29, 2009 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Joe Girardi just announced that Brett Gardner will be the center fielder.

More to come.

UPDATE, 5:08 p.m.: The plan is for Melky to be on the team, Girardi said. But saying that is the plan is like saying he could be traded. … Melky said he was disappointed but that he would do whatever he could to help the team.

Said Girardi: “Both of them played great. Melky had a tough year last year but he came into camp, was ready to go and played very well. Gardy finished up strong (last season) and had a great camp and we’re just going to go with Gardy.”

UPDATE, 6:03 p.m.: Brett had already left the ballpark by the time we received the news. He has hit .418 with a .468 on-base percentage this spring counting the game against Team USA. Gardner has three doubles, two triples, three home runs, six RBI and five stolen bases. Cabrera hit .328 with a .400 on-base percentage. He had five extra-base hits and nine RBI.

They were pretty even in that regard. Girardi said they liked what Gardner’s speed to do, both offensively and defensively. Cabrera sort of is what he is, a fourth OF type. Gardner may or may not be more than that. But they need to find out.

“What happens April 6 doesn’t necessarily mean that’s what’s going to be June 1. As players, you have to perform. But right now we think Gardy has a little bit of an edge,” Girardi said. “It’s not going to be day by day. Gardy is our center fielder.”

The other aspect of today that was interesting is how dominant Phil Coke looks. He fanned four in two innings. Coke has whiffed 15 and walked one in 14 innings while allowing eight hits. He looks like an important — and versatile — part of the bullpen.

Thanks to everybody for reading today.

 
 

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256 Responses to “Breaking news: Gardner in CF”

  1. Pel March 29th, 2009 at 4:54 pm

    good for mr. gardner

  2. Giuseppe Franco March 29th, 2009 at 4:54 pm

    Hardly a shocker, but good news nonetheless.

    Gardner deserves it.

  3. Stacey March 29th, 2009 at 4:55 pm

    “speed kills”

  4. Tseng March 29th, 2009 at 4:56 pm

    Good to hear.

  5. Noreaster March 29th, 2009 at 4:56 pm

    We’ve finally got a center fielder that can “go get it”. Should be a fun summer watching him run.

  6. MikeEff March 29th, 2009 at 4:56 pm

    the news we’ve all been waiting for! i guess beating out that bunt today put him over the top :)

  7. yankswin27 March 29th, 2009 at 4:57 pm

    Great move by Mr. Girardi, no matter how well Melky has done this ST.

    Now only two moves lie in the hands of the Yankees: utility infielder and long reliever (said to be Albaladejo)

  8. MikeEff March 29th, 2009 at 4:57 pm

    Stacey
    March 29th, 2009 at 4:55 pm
    “speed kills”

    ————-

    it killed melky for sure

  9. Doreen March 29th, 2009 at 4:57 pm

    Congratulations to Brett – he certainly earned the honors! :)

  10. jennifer March 29th, 2009 at 4:58 pm

    YEAH!!! Congrats brett!!! I was just going to post the question if Brett won! Goes to show you hard work and determination does pay off!

  11. vinny-b (Girardi, Pettitte, Mo, Matsui, Gardner = my top 5) March 29th, 2009 at 4:58 pm

    congrats, Brent

    now continue practicing your bunting. You will need it

  12. vinny-b (Girardi, Pettitte, Mo, Matsui, Gardner = my top 5) March 29th, 2009 at 4:59 pm

    *brett*

  13. G March 29th, 2009 at 5:01 pm

    i think we all knew this about 2 weeks ago.

  14. Betsy March 29th, 2009 at 5:01 pm

    Congrats to Brett – he’s had an outstanding spring. Now the hard part – keeping the job. I suggest he bunt some more, don’t try to do too much and run, rabbit, run

    Melky can still be a pretty valuable asset – every team needs a good 4th OF. He’ll get playing time if he works hard and doesn’t sulk because he’s not starting.

  15. Zooboy March 29th, 2009 at 5:01 pm

    Gritty, gutty call by Joe.

  16. hardwired March 29th, 2009 at 5:01 pm

    not a bad year for Brett. has his first kid, and gets to open the new stadium as the starting center fielder. well done.

  17. Rob March 29th, 2009 at 5:02 pm

    Congratulations to Brett. Good call, Joe. Yanks will have their best defensive outfield in many years. Great to see.

  18. rconn23 March 29th, 2009 at 5:04 pm

    Sanity, and logic, prevails.

  19. m is for mlb.com March 29th, 2009 at 5:05 pm

    Brett is God. :)

    Just keep working hard and good things will happen for the Yankees.

  20. mko March 29th, 2009 at 5:06 pm

    “Melky can still be a pretty valuable asset – every team needs a good 4th OF.”

    Isn’t he the fifth OF (Swisher?)?

  21. jimmy1138 March 29th, 2009 at 5:07 pm

    Tough for Melky – hitting .340 in spring and not making the team…

  22. jennifer March 29th, 2009 at 5:07 pm

    So what happens with Melky? Is he on the roster as the 4th outfielder? Or is there a trade in the works, or will they assign him to AAA, hope he’ll decline and become a free agent?

  23. bodhisattva March 29th, 2009 at 5:08 pm

    Good luck Brett against those MLB breaking pitches. Be ready Melky.

  24. yewnork March 29th, 2009 at 5:08 pm

    *prays for the next mickey rivers*

  25. Betsy March 29th, 2009 at 5:08 pm

    MKO, that’s right. I just think of Swisher as an everyday type player that I forgot he’ll be coming off the bench……Melky will be the 5th OF, then …….but he’ll make the team.

  26. Dr. Cox March 29th, 2009 at 5:09 pm

    cool daddio.

  27. Brian M March 29th, 2009 at 5:10 pm

    For all this talk about him being the weak link offensively, I think opposing teams will hate facing him. He makes things happen.

    On a day when an opposing pitcher is dominating, he can turn a bunt single into a run. It will give the team a dynamic nobody else can. He reminds of me Juan Pierre back in the day and how he and Castillo tortured the Yanks in the Series.

    He has a decent bat, a good eye, great D, plus speed doesn’t go in a slump. I bet he has a better year than Nady.

  28. vinny-b (Girardi, Pettitte, Mo, Matsui, Gardner = my top 5) March 29th, 2009 at 5:10 pm

    “Melky can still be a pretty valuable asset”

    with Nady/Swisher on board, i expect Melky will be as valauble as tits on a bull

  29. K March 29th, 2009 at 5:11 pm

    Yay for Brett – not a shocker but a great decision.

    About Melky, I am thinking trade him.

  30. Pat March 29th, 2009 at 5:11 pm

    Good. At least they got one of the ST battles right.

  31. teddy March 29th, 2009 at 5:12 pm

    yes, now if swisher was the starting rf , it be perfect

  32. vinny-b (Girardi, Pettitte, Mo, Matsui, Gardner = my top 5) March 29th, 2009 at 5:12 pm

    “prays (brett gardner) for the next mickey rivers”

    where do i sign up

  33. Phil March 29th, 2009 at 5:13 pm

    If he can maintain a .360 OBP or better, swipe bases at a 77% or better rate and steal runs on D, he’ll be a great fit. He should study Earl Combs.

  34. MattNC March 29th, 2009 at 5:13 pm

    Now if Gardner can get on base at a .333 clip, play solid defense, and steal bases at a 75-80% success rate, he might actually be the CF all season.

    Gardner should lay down a bunt at least every other game. If he bunts that often, the infielders will have to creep in, and that will only help Gardner slap grounders past them when he swings away. With Gardner’s speed, if he lays down a decent bunt, any bobble will mean a hit.

    The Yankees might be tempted to keep Melky around, since they would be in trouble if Gardner got hurt. Rough to carry 5 outfielders in addition to Matsui, though.

  35. vinny-b (Girardi, Pettitte, Mo, Matsui, Gardner = my top 5) March 29th, 2009 at 5:15 pm

    “He reminds of me Juan Pierre back in the day and how he and Castillo tortured the Yanks in the Series”

    I agree.

    yet everyone sh*ts on Pierre. Dating back to when he was in FL

  36. Rebecca-Optimist Prime...Staying to Write the Story March 29th, 2009 at 5:16 pm

    Whether Gardner or Melky doesn’t matter so much to me…it (hopefully) won’t be long before Jackson is there in center anyway

  37. bodhisattva March 29th, 2009 at 5:17 pm

    If we go with 12 pitchers, it won’t be rough at all.

  38. Phil March 29th, 2009 at 5:17 pm

    Juan Pierre has been a bad OBP guy for most of his career. Better hope Gardy is better at getting on base.

  39. vinny-b (Girardi, Pettitte, Mo, Matsui, Gardner = my top 5) March 29th, 2009 at 5:18 pm

    “Gardner should lay down a bunt at least every other game. If he bunts that often, the infielders will have to creep in, and that will only help Gardner slap grounders past them when he swings away. With Gardner’s speed, if he lays down a decent bunt, any bobble will mean a hit”

    if Gardner does this, he will be fine.

    and if Gardner doesn’t, he will only have himself to blame

  40. Laurenfrances March 29th, 2009 at 5:20 pm

    Hardly breaking news as it has been expected and rumored. With A-Rod out for a spell, manufacturing runs by other means is necessary. Gardner has demonstrated his ability to get on base and with his speed a run is just in the making. Congrats to Brett, it was a competitive ST kudos to Brett. Lets hope his production can be maintained throughtout the coming season.

  41. Tom March 29th, 2009 at 5:20 pm

    I was at the game the Yanks played team USA and sat with a couple of scouts behind home plate. There were runners on first and second and a fly ball hit out to Gardner both runners moved up. The scout said the runner on first took advantage of Gardner’s lack of a throwing arm. They told me that while Gardner can run he does not have the arm to play center especially in Yankee Stadium Put him with Damon and you have the worst throwing arms in the league. By the way this cost the Yanks two runs when Jeter hit a weak ground ball past Berroa who by the way has less range than Jeter to drive in both runners with two outs

  42. Phil March 29th, 2009 at 5:20 pm

    Mickey Rivers never used to bunt. Billy used to tell him that if he would, he’d hit .400, but Mickey wouldn’t. Brett Butler is another guy Gardy should study. He’d bunt.

  43. Elizabeth March 29th, 2009 at 5:22 pm

    :(

  44. bodhisattva March 29th, 2009 at 5:22 pm

    Actually, Rivers bunted a lot but then we got Reggie and the strategy of the team changed, and he didn’t bunt much anymore.

  45. Patrick March 29th, 2009 at 5:22 pm

    I’m happy that Gardner is going to get a shot as the starter. However, I’m still pretty doubtful that he will be much better than replacement level offensively. He has to prove that he can hit and get on base. If he can do that, his speed will really help the offense.

  46. Russell NY March 29th, 2009 at 5:23 pm

    Prediction for Gardner 2009:

    .280 average
    .340 OBP
    9,565 stolen bases

  47. bodhisattva March 29th, 2009 at 5:24 pm

    K
    March 29th, 2009 at 5:11 pm
    Yay for Brett – not a shocker but a great decision.
    About Melky, I am thinking trade him.
    =====================================================

    That would be remarkably stupid. The Yankees giving Gardner the job is an experiment. They’re hoping he can get on base enough to make use of his spectacular speed. If he can’t, and Melky’s elsewhere, they don’t have a center fielder.

  48. Stengelese March 29th, 2009 at 5:24 pm

    There is a very big downside here. By using it twice in one statement, on top of previous instances, Girardi has made it very clear that he intends to refer to Bret as “Gardy”. Unless Captain “Jetey” can intervene, we will be subjected to this all season.

  49. yankeesgirl March 29th, 2009 at 5:24 pm

    I loved Melky? But congrats to Brett

  50. yankswin27 March 29th, 2009 at 5:26 pm

    When will Girardi tell us who won the long reliever and utility infielder job?

  51. Betsy March 29th, 2009 at 5:26 pm

    http://bombersbeat.mlblogs.com/

    As for his spring, Burnett said, “I feel like I’m strong and in shape. I feel I’m where I need to be. I’m ready to pitch under the lights.”

    As of last check, the Buddha in his locker was still scowling, though.

    **Avoid AJ until that Buddha is feeling a little better, lol.

  52. m is for mlb.com March 29th, 2009 at 5:27 pm

    Yah. Not excited with “Gardy”. But the worse is Torre’s “Matty” which Joe G continues to use.

    So Gardner can’t be “Li’l G” anymore? I guess Gardner will do.

  53. bodhisattva March 29th, 2009 at 5:27 pm

    Tom
    March 29th, 2009 at 5:20 pm
    I was at the game the Yanks played team USA and sat with a couple of scouts behind home plate. There were runners on first and second and a fly ball hit out to Gardner both runners moved up. The scout said the runner on first took advantage of Gardner’s lack of a throwing arm. They told me that while Gardner can run he does not have the arm to play center especially in Yankee Stadium Put him with Damon and you have the worst throwing arms in the league. By the way this cost the Yanks two runs when Jeter hit a weak ground ball past Berroa who by the way has less range than Jeter to drive in both runners with two outs.
    ======================================================

    Melky’s arm in CF saves runs. If Gardner doesn’t get on enough to make it worthwhile, he’ll be giving away the bases he steals or legs out, on defense.

  54. 24 Score March 29th, 2009 at 5:28 pm

    After talking with Cashman and making the necessary 40 man moves

  55. Scorpio March 29th, 2009 at 5:29 pm

    Sad for Melky.

  56. steve March 29th, 2009 at 5:30 pm

    Ok now that he has the job and the pressure is off— brett MUST work on his bunting for the rest of ST.

  57. Tom March 29th, 2009 at 5:31 pm

    I know that Pete can’t report it but Giradi has to get off to a hot start or he will be gone before the All Star game and Bowa will be back. This would be great news for both Cano and the Milk man. They both played great when Bowa was there.

  58. Sully Sox March 29th, 2009 at 5:31 pm

    Anymore missing ARod?

    I’m not.

  59. Phil March 29th, 2009 at 5:31 pm

    Melky’s range in CF also costs some runs.

  60. McG March 29th, 2009 at 5:31 pm

    BOOYA! Congrats BG! You busted ur ass and deserve it! Cant wait to watch you spin!

  61. S.A.-The 2009 MLB season is almost here March 29th, 2009 at 5:32 pm

    Congrats Brett!

    Wherever you are melkyisgod-hang in there

  62. yankswin27 March 29th, 2009 at 5:33 pm

    24score,

    I remember Girardi saying, however, that todaay was “judgement day” and that the rest of the roster moves were to be finished today.

  63. Redding March 29th, 2009 at 5:34 pm

    Girardi has nicknames for everyone

    Gardner = Gardy
    Matsui – Matty
    Veras/Molina – Josey
    Edwar – Eddy
    Marte – Dammo
    Coke – Philly
    Albaladejo – Alby
    Nady – X
    Dave Robertson/Cano – Robby
    Ponson – Siddy

    etc.

  64. Phil March 29th, 2009 at 5:34 pm

    Ivan Nova has been returned.

  65. Chris Barrows March 29th, 2009 at 5:34 pm

    I’m really happy for Gardner and the Yankees on this one. It’s a step in the right direction in my opinion. He’s no guarantee to stay in the position, but he’s earned his chance to keep the job for the entire 2009 season.

    Starting CF in the New Yankee Stadium is an honor anyone would want and he’ll be one of nine to have it. Good for him.

  66. m is for mlb.com March 29th, 2009 at 5:35 pm

    Sully,

    Did you hear Cashman’s quote about the Yankees just missing Alex as he heads to Tampa? It seems like it was by design.

  67. Jeff NJ March 29th, 2009 at 5:36 pm

    If you ask me, you need two guys who are capable of backing up the OF. As long as Hideki is only a DH, we need both Swisher and Melky. Plus Melky may wind up being a late inning defensive replacement. It’s nice to have a good bench for a change. As for my fantasy team, I’m going to cut Melky and hope to get him back in the draft, but I amy just target Gardner, he could lead the league in steals.

  68. Giuseppe Franco March 29th, 2009 at 5:36 pm

    I’d rather have the guy who can flag down more balls in the outfield than a guy who can make a throw once in awhile.

    Just how often is Melky’s arm needed as opposed to the fly balls that Gardner can flag down and Melky can’t?

    It’s a no brainer. Gardner was the right choice and he’s a better defender.

  69. Nick in SF March 29th, 2009 at 5:37 pm

    You forgot another nickname:

    Rodriguez: “Alex is still a very important member of this team and we need him to do well and contribute. We’ll get past this as a team and move forward together.”

  70. Floyd March 29th, 2009 at 5:37 pm

    Marte has looked awful this Spring

    Coke has been lighting it up

    At this point, I trust Coke over any one in the pen not named MO.

  71. stiker March 29th, 2009 at 5:38 pm

    My yankees 2009 predictions:

    hitting
    http://www.fan-exchange.com/ml.....;userid=53

    pitching
    http://www.fan-exchange.com/ml.....;userid=53

  72. PAT M. March 29th, 2009 at 5:38 pm

    Gardner is the right pick for an April / May audition…..Facing lefties with sweepers will be the acid test….Maybe he’ll surprise us with some drag bunts….Damon used to drag bunt when he came up with The Royals…..A .350 OB would be sweet, which could translate into 45 bags…..Man I dislike the Tarheels, come on Sooners

  73. jake March 29th, 2009 at 5:38 pm

    Melky’s arm in CF saves runs. If Gardner doesn’t get on enough to make it worthwhile, he’ll be giving away the bases he steals or legs out, on defense.
    ——————————————————————–
    Melky is a good defensive CF. He isn’t special. His good defensive play would, now and then, save a run. To suggest he “saves runs,” as in “saves runs all the time,” is disingenuous.
    Gardner is also a good defensive CF. His arm is average–not quite in Melky’s class–but he’s got extraordinary range. His play in CF would save an occasional run, too.
    Gardner showed throughout his minor league career that he can get on base and score runs. Melky has never demonstrated that on a consistent basis. Gardner regularly popped .OBPs of .360+ in the minors. And he’s patient. And he hits righties and lefties. And he creates havoc on the basepaths–an unmeasurable, but valuable, offensive asset.
    Girardi has made the right choice. Melky would make a fine utility outfielder, but I don’t know that the Yanks have room for him. If they can trade Melky for something of value, I’m sure they will. With Swisher capable of stepping in anywhere in the OF, A-Jax almost ready for the majors, and John Rodriguez capable and staying warm in AAA, Melky is unnecessary.

  74. Elizabeth March 29th, 2009 at 5:38 pm

    *I know that Pete can’t report it but Giradi has to get off to a hot start or he will be gone before the All Star game and Bowa will be back. This would be great news for both Cano and the Milk man. They both played great when Bowa was there.*

    That would be a dream.

  75. jake March 29th, 2009 at 5:41 pm

    You’re hoping that Girardi fails?
    Some fan you are!!

  76. m is for mlb.com March 29th, 2009 at 5:42 pm

    Bowa won’t come back to the Yankees. Not in the midseason. He also doesn’t want to manage.

  77. Giuseppe Franco March 29th, 2009 at 5:42 pm

    They aren’t going to fire Girardi in the middle of the season unless this team completely collapses.

    That’s not going to happen with this rotation.

  78. Dr. Cox March 29th, 2009 at 5:43 pm

    “There is a very big downside here. By using it twice in one statement, on top of previous instances, Girardi has made it very clear that he intends to refer to Bret as “Gardy”. Unless Captain “Jetey” can intervene, we will be subjected to this all season.”

    umm…?

  79. Moe March 29th, 2009 at 5:46 pm

    Gardner needs to work on his defense. In the few games that were televised in ST he got burned badly by turning the wrong way on balls. All that speed won’t help him if he takes bad routes.

    I am pulling for this kid to succeed.

  80. Floyd March 29th, 2009 at 5:48 pm

    Yes – because this team has never come back from a large deficit to make the playoffs before.

    Girardi is getting the entire year, unless the team is like 10-30 in the middle of May. Why shouldn’t he? This team has proven that it starts out slow but usually makes a run in the summer-time.

    This isin’t George in the 80s anymore, this team is run by far more stable people. Hal doesn’t meddle. And even if Girardi does go at the end of the yr, it would be for Tony Pena.

  81. Sandman March 29th, 2009 at 5:48 pm

    Elizabeth –

    Bowa isn’t coming back. Forget that right away.

    While it is probably true that Girardi won’t get the benefit of too much doubt this year, the chances are that he’s not going to need that. He appears to have learned from last year, and he has a great team out there.

    I fully expect Girardi to be wearing a new ring with NY on it come November.

  82. RenoNy March 29th, 2009 at 5:48 pm

    Good luck to Gardner, but he won’t hit. He’s a squirt, squib and bloop guy and that won’t be enough. I see all these predictions that he will hit for a decent average, but I don’t see it. Any advantages he has over Cabrera are marginal with the exception of speed. He can run faster and steal more bases. He will walk a bit more. Cabrera is a better hitter,will hit for more power and has the arm that an outfielder should have. Gardner is only marginally better tracking balls down. Cabrera will hit for better average. Frankly, I think they are shopping Cabrera and if they can make a deal,(Cameron?) they will have a new center fielder here by opening day or very soon after. As somebody pointed out earlier, you can’t have two woefully subpar arms in the same outfield day after day. It will cost them dearly and they know it. Hopefully Cashman will not let Girardi’s illogical love affair with “Gardi” stop him from doing the right thing. When it’s all said and done, Cabrera will have a superior career to Gardner.

  83. Sully Sox March 29th, 2009 at 5:49 pm

    Got Gardy?

  84. Al from BK March 29th, 2009 at 5:50 pm

    Good news regarding Gardner he has played very well and brings something that Melky cant and thats blinding speed. If Gardner gets on base at a .350 clip he will steal 40 bags no question. Whens the last time a Yankee did that? :)

  85. Bill Porter March 29th, 2009 at 5:52 pm

    GGBG!!!!

  86. John_Halfz March 29th, 2009 at 5:54 pm

    Get ready for .260/.295/.375

    That .670 OPS will be nice! But his baldness and grit and 38 SB will make up for it.

  87. Giuseppe Franco March 29th, 2009 at 5:54 pm

    The arm issue in CF is absolutely nonsense.

    There aren’t that many CF around the league with big plus arms. There’s Ichiro and a few others and that’s about it.

    Even Grady Sizemore has no better than an average arm in CF and he’s one of the best defensive center fielders in the game.

    The whole arm issue in CF is completely overblown.

  88. Code X March 29th, 2009 at 5:54 pm

    We won 89 games last year and

    - we didn’t get a single win out of Hughes or Kennedy

    - Our ace Wang missed about 60% of the season

    - Rasner made 20+ starts with an ERA well north of 5

    - Ponson made like 16-17 starts with an ERA just under 6

    - Andy was inept in the 2nd half of the season with an ERA of 6

    - We lost Posada and Matsui for 1\2 the year and A-Rod for a month. We were 7th in the AL in RS after leading the league in 07.

    - Carl Pavano was allowed to make 6 starts for us and basically audition for his next contract on our watch

  89. John_Halfz March 29th, 2009 at 5:55 pm

    This reminds me of when the Yankees were able to sell all of those Got Melk? t-shirts. Wonder how long this flavor of the month will last. Hopefully at least until A-Rod gets back. The man can’t hit plus ML fastballs.

  90. E-gawa March 29th, 2009 at 5:56 pm

    well that’s good news. Gardner may not be a “godsend” or anything but he deserves the shot. Melky has been a little too overrated.

  91. tampa yankee March 29th, 2009 at 5:57 pm

    bowa should of got the job and wasn’t even interviewed.giradi seems 2 be making better choices.jeter/damon switch for one.we do need a long man though.i’d cut giese.ransom will be exposed sooner than later.

  92. Giuseppe Franco March 29th, 2009 at 5:57 pm

    The Yanks won four rings with a guy who had a below average arm in CF.

    Boston won one too with a below average arm in CF. He happens to be playing LF for the Yanks now.

  93. Angel March 29th, 2009 at 5:59 pm

    Melky,Brett,Melky,Brett..Mel…)/(=?*/

    TWO WORDS:

    CARLOS BELTRAN

  94. Brandon ( I Love Me Some Me), Clyde on Mike Taylor: "Round and round I go, where I stop nobody knows..." March 29th, 2009 at 5:59 pm

    Where’s Brettisgod ?

  95. tampa yankee March 29th, 2009 at 6:00 pm

    the bottom line gardner tools are needed more.he can change a game and has a higher ceiling.they both could struggle.hope not.

  96. Tom March 29th, 2009 at 6:00 pm

    Thank you Reno, with Damon and Gardner this is the worst throwing outfield in baseball. Any time they can challenge Damon or Gardner they will do it. Please remember that four of our starters are fly ball pitchers.

    With all of the money spent this off season Girardi will not have a long leash. Remember what Yes people said that Joe had lost the team. Yes does not speak unless the Yanks say so.

  97. Phil March 29th, 2009 at 6:01 pm

    G.Franco,

    If you count the 2 we won with Rivers and the ones we won with Combs, it’s a lot more than 4 with CF’s who couldn’t throw.

  98. Rebecca-Optimist Prime...Staying to Write the Story March 29th, 2009 at 6:01 pm

    Code X: thanks for that post!

    I can’t tell you how annoyed I get when people get apoplytic about last season, saying the Yankees collapsed or that it’s all Girardi’s fault.

    If we forget for the moment that Girardi didn’t exactly cause any of those injuries or regressions, and remember that despite everything the Yankees still won 89 games…that’s not a collapse. That’s just the misfortune of being in the wrong division in the wrong year.

  99. Danny March 29th, 2009 at 6:01 pm

    You can always put in Melky as a defensive replacement in the later innings

  100. Boston Dave March 29th, 2009 at 6:02 pm

    “bowa should of got the job and wasn’t even interviewed”

    bowa wouldnt have taken the job IMO. he is too loyal to Torre.

  101. RenoNy March 29th, 2009 at 6:02 pm

    The arm means plenty when your left fielder can’t throw either. Plus, he will not hit. I think .260 is his absolute ceiling and I think that’s giving him too much credit.

  102. Mo March 29th, 2009 at 6:04 pm

    I don’t want to see all the trols come out here bashing cash and girardi when gardner is struggling.

    also I’m looking to add more lhod blog followers on my twitter account, please follow me http://www.twitter.com/sportsinyiddish, this can be alot of fun.

  103. Brandon ( I Love Me Some Me), Clyde on Mike Taylor: "Round and round I go, where I stop nobody knows..." March 29th, 2009 at 6:06 pm

    Who heard Julian Tavarez’s why I signed w/ the Nats quote. :lol:

    “Why did I sign with the Nationals?” Tavárez said on Sunday. “When you go to a club at 4 in the morning, and you’re just waiting, waiting, a 600-pounder looks like J-Lo. And to me this is Jennifer Lopez right here. It’s 4 in the morning. Too much to drink. So, Nationals: Jennifer Lopez to me.”

    LMAO :lol:

  104. Ed - 2009 season can't start soon enough March 29th, 2009 at 6:08 pm

    Brandon, that’s hilarious. too bad for Taveras, signing with the Nats. :lol:

  105. Al from BK March 29th, 2009 at 6:08 pm

    Beltran is fantastic but the Yankees instead decided to give all their attention to Pavano and over the hill big unit that off-season. We must move on from that, in this lineup Gardner will suffice.

  106. tampa yankee March 29th, 2009 at 6:09 pm

    boston dave,

    bowa and torre were coaching together for only a few years.torre would of told bowa 2 take it.torre wasn’t loyal to zimmer or mel.mattingly would of took it if they picked him.it doesn’t matter, if giradi goes 2010 will be bobby v’s.

  107. tampa yankee March 29th, 2009 at 6:10 pm

    al from bk,

    didn’t the over the hill randy johnson who i hate have 17 wins and a 3.79era

  108. Brandon ( I Love Me Some Me), Clyde on Mike Taylor: "Round and round I go, where I stop nobody knows..." March 29th, 2009 at 6:11 pm

    ‘Brandon, that’s hilarious. too bad for Taveras, signing with the Nats. ‘

    I’m just picturing Julian talking like Robi only really meaning it and infront of a reporter, then the next day his teammates read his quote. :lol:

  109. Nick in SF March 29th, 2009 at 6:11 pm

    Let that be a lesson to you, Ed, don’t drink so much or you’ll end up a National, or crushed on your own mattress. Or both.

  110. RenoNy March 29th, 2009 at 6:11 pm

    G Franco. Unless you were in a coma, Bernie Williams brought just a tad more to the table than Brett Gardner ever will. Same goes for Damon. Silly comparison. If Gardner could hit like either one, it’s a different argument. Bottom line is that he was overmatched when they called him up last year and honestly, hitting .350 during spring training doesn’t do much to enhance his resume.

  111. m is for mlb.com March 29th, 2009 at 6:12 pm

    Thanks for the updates, Pete.

    And yeah to Coke (from a Pepsi fan).

    He’s continuing what he started last season. Attacking the hitters and pitching with confidence. He’s the 8th inning guy IMO.

    Bruney? Better shape up, or be DFA’ed or worse, demoted to middle reliever!

  112. Ed - 2009 season can't start soon enough March 29th, 2009 at 6:13 pm

    Nick, at least I would still be able to make wise decisions unlike that dude. lol

  113. Tom March 29th, 2009 at 6:14 pm

    I hope that Gardner does well. I hope the Yanks did not forget the old baseball saying, never judge a player in September or in the spring.

  114. Danny March 29th, 2009 at 6:14 pm

    “The other aspect of today that was interesting is how dominant Phil Coke looks. He fanned four in two innings. Coke has whiffed 15 and walked one in 14 innings while allowing eight hits. He looks like an important — and versatile — part of the bullpen.”

    100% agree. I hope they use him in the late innings

  115. m is for mlb.com March 29th, 2009 at 6:14 pm

    Regardless of who won the CF job, shouldn’t we wait for the season to start before passing judgement?

    I would think that a Yankee fan would want both Gardner & Cabrera to do well.

  116. X-Mann March 29th, 2009 at 6:15 pm

    Mel League Baseball?

  117. BrettIsGod March 29th, 2009 at 6:18 pm

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

    this is the best news ive received in a year! words cant express how happy i am! now i will watch every single game instad of watching the ones he plays in.

    bye melky

  118. Nick in SF March 29th, 2009 at 6:19 pm

    Ed: I don’t know, I’ve seen some of your posts when you’ve been drinking… ;)

  119. Betsy March 29th, 2009 at 6:20 pm

    http://bombersbeat.mlblogs.com/

    updated, plus a pic of the famous Buddha:

    “There were a lot of balls over the plate today, and a lot of spots missed,” Burnett said. “It didn’t matter what side of the plate they went on, they just came back over the middle. That’s just a mechanical type of thing that we’ll fix inbetween.”

    Basically, Burnett said that the adjustment he needs to make concerns moving too much side to side, instead of staying on top and driving toward the catcher.

    Final Grapefruit League numbers for Burnett: 3-0, 3.72 ERA in five starts.

    “I feel like I’m strong and in shape,” Burnett said. “The execution wasn’t there, but you find a positive out of today. I feel like I’m where I need to be, despite the results. I’m ready to pitch under the lights.”

  120. Bill Porter March 29th, 2009 at 6:20 pm

    Brandon, wow! With talk like that I think Tavarez is going to be showering by himself for a while; those kind of beer goggles make everybody nervous.

  121. S.A.-The 2009 MLB season is almost here March 29th, 2009 at 6:22 pm

    BrettIsGod March 29th, 2009 at 6:18 pm

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

    this is the best news ive received in a year! words cant express how happy i am! now i will watch every single game instad of watching the ones he plays in.

    bye melky

    ======================================

    There you are. I guess you will be celebrating tonight

  122. TIME FOR #27 March 29th, 2009 at 6:22 pm

    I hate to say it but i still think that the red sox are a better then us, their bullpen is damn scary……

  123. Betsy March 29th, 2009 at 6:24 pm

    Yankees Magazine show on the new YS on now – I’m taping to watch later. This should be fantastic…..I may get tickets to Opening Day, seats right over the dugout, but my brother-in-law says not to pressure him, so I won’t, lol

  124. gayle March 29th, 2009 at 6:24 pm

    Why am I not suprised that BrettisGod chose today to return to the fold.

    Since Brett already left for the day when this was announced at least Bruney wont ask him if he was cut when all the reporters surround him tomorrow.

  125. Fran March 29th, 2009 at 6:25 pm

    Gardner deserved the job off his performance in spring training. I especially like the element of speed that he brings to the line-up.

  126. trisha - As long as you're in pinstripes, Kei, I've got your back. March 29th, 2009 at 6:26 pm

    On to really important things, like the NCAA championship games. I’m doing very well with my brackets so far, probably because I didn’t pick in many games but was real scientific in the ones I did. (I just call them my brackets since it sounds more like I know what I’m doing. But my picks were just between me and myself!):

    I wanted Duke to lose because I can’t stand Shashefsky. ( I know, it begins with a J.) Now maybe if he spelled and prounced his name the same way I would like him! I think he’s full of himself however. So I was thrilled to see Duke lose.

    I wanted UConn to win because they’re local and because a team with someone named Leo Lyons kind of really shouldn’t win anything.

    I wanted Villanova to win because Pittsburgh beat PC and also is a steeltown. I don’t know why I don’t like steeltowns…

    I wanted Louisville to lose because I can’t stand the whiney Pitino!

    I wanted Gonzaga to win because I always think Gonzaga doesn’t belong there because of their name (doesn’t sound like a winning team) so I think they have a strike against them and needs support – but they lost.

    I now want Okalhoma to win, despite the fact that it isn’t looking good because I’m tired of UNC and Tyler Hansborough seems too full of himself.

    In the final analysis, I actually don’t care how it turns out as long as Pitino isn’t there. I REALLY can’t stand him. Other than that, it’s apparent that I don’t follow basketball too closely!

    :)

  127. bodhisattva March 29th, 2009 at 6:27 pm

    jake
    March 29th, 2009 at 5:38 pm
    Melky’s arm in CF saves runs. If Gardner doesn’t get on enough to make it worthwhile, he’ll be giving away the bases he steals or legs out, on defense.——————————————————————————————————
    Melky is a good defensive CF. He isn’t special. His good defensive play would, now and then, save a run. To suggest he “saves runs,” as in “saves runs all the time,” is disingenuous.
    Gardner is also a good defensive CF. His arm is average-not quite in Melky’s class-but he’s got extraordinary range. His play in CF would save an occasional run, too.
    Gardner showed throughout his minor league career that he can get on base and score runs. Melky has never demonstrated that on a consistent basis. Gardner regularly popped .OBPs of .360+ in the minors. And he’s patient. And he hits righties and lefties. And he creates havoc on the basepaths—an unmeasurable, but valuable, offensive asset.
    Girardi has made the right choice. Melky would make a fine utility outfielder, but I don’t know that the Yanks have room for him. If they can trade Melky for something of value, I’m sure they will. With Swisher capable of stepping in anywhere in the OF, A-Jax almost ready for the majors, and John Rodriguez capable and staying warm in AAA, Melky is unnecessary.
    ======================================================

    The arm is such a deterrent “all the time”, no one even bothers to run on it anymore. Perhaps that’s why you’re so cavalier about it’s power to prevent runs.

    You could debate, somewhat more credibly, that Gardner may get to certain balls that Melky won’t, precluding and trumping the arm, but trying to dismiss Cabrera’s arm as a defensive weapon is either “disingenuous” or you don’t understand the value of an outfield canon as part of a player’s defensive arsenal.

    Devaluing an outfield arm in either center or right field is to be on shaky ground as a baseball observer. Yet it seems to be in fashion, particularly from people who are excited to have Gardner take over the CF spot. To speak of disingenuousness.

    We will absolutely have Tampa Bay and teams who run taking advantage of Gardner’s arm not being Melky’s. And could anything be more disingenuousness than saying Gardner’s arm is “not quite” in Melky’s class?

    Lol. Not quite.

  128. Giuseppe Franco March 29th, 2009 at 6:27 pm

    G Franco. Unless you were in a coma, Bernie Williams brought just a tad more to the table than Brett Gardner ever will. Same goes for Damon. Silly comparison. If Gardner could hit like either one, it’s a different argument. Bottom line is that he was overmatched when they called him up last year and honestly, hitting .350 during spring training doesn’t do much to enhance his resume.

    ———-

    So the alternative is to give Melky the job because he has a better arm even though he was throughly outplayed by Gardner and didn’t deserve the starting job.

    That sounds like really silly argument.

    Gardner has a history of improving his game after initially starting very slow.

    Give the kid a chance and maybe you’ll learn something.

  129. trisha - As long as you're in pinstripes, Kei, I've got your back. March 29th, 2009 at 6:28 pm

    “I hate to say it but i still think that the red sox are a better then us, their bullpen is damn scary……”

    :lol:

    Thanks, I needed a good laugh today!

    No offense, but I couldn’t agree less. Red Sox will be lucky to come in third.

  130. TIME FOR #27 March 29th, 2009 at 6:31 pm

    Trisha: I hope you are right but bostons pitching is deep and good

  131. Al from BK March 29th, 2009 at 6:32 pm

    “al from bk,

    didn’t the over the hill randy johnson who i hate have 17 wins and a 3.79era”

    Yes for one season he was decent but he hardly had a “RANDY JOHNSON” kind of year. He was a shell who toppled in the playoffs and his second season proved that he was done.

  132. RalphieD (for free sports betting look here http://www.centsports.com/?opcode=317843) March 29th, 2009 at 6:33 pm

    congrats to gardy..hes earned his chance…but hopefully melky stays strong and is a good backup/defensive replacement

  133. Sean Serritella March 29th, 2009 at 6:34 pm

    “Thanks to everybody for reading today.”

    Thanks for the great news you provide.

  134. RenoNy March 29th, 2009 at 6:35 pm

    Show mw how he was thoroughly outplayed this spring. You’re putting too much stock in spring training anyway, but if you want to go there, in the last two weeks as the pitching has gotten better ,so have Cabrera’s numbers while Gardner’s have come down.

  135. Eric Oz March 29th, 2009 at 6:35 pm

    tony womack makes things happen

  136. RenoNy March 29th, 2009 at 6:36 pm

    Show me how he was thoroughly outplayed this spring. You’re putting too much stock in spring training anyway.

  137. Sean Serritella March 29th, 2009 at 6:36 pm

    I have a feeling that Melky would never become a star player. It’s time to find out if Gardner can be one.

  138. BrettIsGod March 29th, 2009 at 6:37 pm

    b quiet reno. he outplayed him. period.

  139. Tom March 29th, 2009 at 6:40 pm

    Giuseppe, you don’t improve an arm that is considered by scouts to be well below average. There is a lot of space to cover in center and with that arm it will be where single grow up to doubles and doubles become triples. It will be like having JG at first base when everybody made him make a throw. This time it will be in Center field.

    Again four of our five starters are considered to be fly ball pitchers. How are they going to feel when every one is taking the extra base on their outfielders?

  140. G. Love March 29th, 2009 at 6:45 pm

    This is the news I was hoping for.

    I have to be honest, if Gardner got sent down to AAA and the bottom of the order was Cano, Melky, Molina a lot of the time I would have felt that Cashman and Girardi learned nothing from last season.

    Gardner brings another dimension to the game. He needs a chance to see if he can get on base and create runs for a team that lacks speed across the board.

    We were forced to watch a lot of low IQ baseball last season. Players who didn’t work the count. Players who could not situationally hit to save their lives.

    I think Gardner has a more discerning eye than Melky and has the potential to be a much more potent offensive weapon.

    As for the D, Melky’s got a gun, but I agree with the posters above who said we won championships with Bernie and Mickey Rivers in CF and neither of them were ever accused of having good arms.

    The best OF arm tends to be in RF, not CF. If you have a guy with a cannon in CF who can hit, you are truly lucky.

    I’m happy for Brett and excited to see what this change brings to the everyday lineup.

    I don’t think many fans or the Yankees were willing to sit back and watch Melky flail away and give away at bats as he did last season.

    If the Yankees thought Melky wasn’t going to do that again, he’d have gotten the nod.

  141. Um.... March 29th, 2009 at 6:45 pm

    “counting the game against Team USA. ”

    counting the game against Team Canada…. Joba has a 6.57 ERA this spring.

  142. trisha - As long as you're in pinstripes, Kei, I've got your back. March 29th, 2009 at 6:46 pm

    “Trisha: I hope you are right but bostons pitching is deep and good”

    See that’s where I disagree. While it may have the potential to be deep, and maybe good, there are also a lot of real question marks I believe. Is Beckett going to be Beckett of old or the Beckett we saw at the end of the season last year? Wakefield I truly believe has seen better days. Dice-K I have a hard time really questioning, so I will give him as pretty much a given. Lester has shown a lot of promise. I don’t even know their 5th.

    Seriously I think the Yankees have the best rotation in the majors. On top of it, they have so damned many possibilities for the pen it makes my head spin. I can’t imagine Boston touching us this year.

    My opinion.

  143. Giuseppe Franco March 29th, 2009 at 6:51 pm

    Show mw how he was thoroughly outplayed this spring. You’re putting too much stock in spring training anyway, but if you want to go there, in the last two weeks as the pitching has gotten better ,so have Cabrera’s numbers while Gardner’s have come down.

    ————

    It’s called consistency. Maybe you’ve heard of it.

    Melky hit .200 -.250 for over three weeks and just started hitting about eight days ago.

    Gardner hit .350+ /.430 OBP+ from the get-go. He started hitting the first game and never let up.

    Gardner also went 3-for-3 with a SB against Team USA that didn’t count in the official ST stats. But it certainly counted in the eyes of Girardi and Cashman, especially given the competition.

    It was clear from Day 1 of Spring Training that this was the battleground for the starting CF job between Gardner and Melky. Your guy lost.

    Perhaps if Melky hadn’t regressed so much in the past two years he wouldn’t have had to fight to keep his job. He had the opportunity to take it back and he failed.

    It’s time to give someone else a chance – the guy who outplayed Melky for the last month.

  144. Nick in SF March 29th, 2009 at 6:51 pm

    Trisha, do you really think that the Red Sox will be lucky to finish ahead of the Orioles and Blue Jays?

  145. RenoNy March 29th, 2009 at 6:52 pm

    You might THINK you’re God Brett, but you’re not and I’m allowed to disagree with you. A guy who hits .340 is not THOROUGHLY outplayed by anybody, period! Let’s see what Gardner can do in real time. It will be interesting.

  146. G. Love March 29th, 2009 at 6:52 pm

    Trisha,

    Boston is one of those teams that is either gonna have a charmed cakewalk season with all the media praising their brilliance or they are going to go up in flames with injuries, declining performance from players who had career years, aging vets and some rookies who aren’t seasoned at the major league level.

    They took a lot of chances and rolled the dice and if Penny, Smoltz and Saito contribute at the top of their capabilities, they will be a very good team.

    That’s a lot of of if’s though.

    They are not using the old model we’ve been using the past few years with aging vets and reclamation projects and we all saw where that got us.

    It’s not impossible for them to be the best team in baseball if things go their way, but they have enough question marks that unless you’re Gammons, you shouldn’t be fool enough to proclaim them so.

    I think that the Rays will slip backwards this year. I think the Red Sox will have their issues and I think the Yankees will get it together and retake the division.

    That said, if Boston’s pitching is healthy and pitching to their true capabilities and past levels, they will be a very difficult team to beat.

    Can’t wait to see how it all plays out.

  147. melkyisgod March 29th, 2009 at 6:53 pm

    not worried at all

    melky will retake the job in no time. he started off slow but has been red hot, whereas gardner started off red hot and has cooled off considerably

  148. trisha - As long as you're in pinstripes, Kei, I've got your back. March 29th, 2009 at 6:54 pm

    And into every life a little rain must fall…

    I see “brettisgod” has returned. Gardner falling apart at the end of last season was worth it just to see that TRUE Yankee fan, brettisgod, disappear as quickly as he showed up.

    brettisgod, here’s a clue for you. Here we actually root for the YANKEES to win, no matter what Yankee is playing. For example, there are some of us, me included, who have been HUGE Melky fans from the beginning. But you would never see me jonesing to see Gardner fail just to see Melky be the starter. Unlike the way it appears you root for the Yankees. Sorry, I forgot. You don’t root for the Yankees. You root for one player on someone’s roster.

  149. trisha - As long as you're in pinstripes, Kei, I've got your back. March 29th, 2009 at 6:54 pm

    And into every life a little rain must fall…

    I see “brettisgod” has returned. Gardner falling apart at the end of last season was worth it just to see that TRUE Yankee fan, brettisgod, disappear as quickly as he showed up.

    brettisgod, here’s a clue for you. Here we actually root for the YANKEES to win, no matter what Yankee is playing. For example, there are some of us, me included, who have been HUGE Melky fans from the beginning. But you would never see me jonesing to see Gardner fail just to see Melky be the starter. Unlike the way it appears you root for the Yankees. Sorry, I forgot. You don’t root for the Yankees. You root for one player on someone’s roster.

  150. Giuseppe Franco March 29th, 2009 at 6:54 pm

    Giuseppe, you don’t improve an arm that is considered by scouts to be well below average. There is a lot of space to cover in center and with that arm it will be where single grow up to doubles and doubles become triples. It will be like having JG at first base when everybody made him make a throw. This time it will be in Center field.

    ————

    As I stated earlier, I’d rather have the guy with better range who can flag down more fly balls.

    Go look around the league and tell me which center fielders have plus arms.

    There aren’t very many and they seem to do okay.

    Gardner will be fine and so will the Yankee defense.

  151. bodhisattva March 29th, 2009 at 6:54 pm

    =enoNy
    March 29th, 2009 at 5:48 pm
    Good luck to Gardner, but he won’t hit. He’s a squirt, squib and bloop guy and that won’t be enough. I see all these predictions that he will hit for a decent average, but I don’t see it. Any advantages he has over Cabrera are marginal with the exception of speed. He can run faster and steal more bases. He will walk a bit more. Cabrera is a better hitter,will hit for more power and has the arm that an outfielder should have. Gardner is only marginally better tracking balls down. Cabrera will hit for better average. Frankly, I think they are shopping Cabrera and if they can make a deal,(Cameron?) they will have a new center fielder here by opening day or very soon after. As somebody pointed out earlier, you can’t have two woefully subpar arms in the same outfield day after day. It will cost them dearly and they know it. Hopefully Cashman will not let Girardi’s illogical love affair with “Gardi” stop him from doing the right thing. When it’s all said and done, Cabrera will have a superior career to Gardner.
    ======================================================

    I don’t think Gardner tracks balls better than Cabrera. He has more speed, but for all that, he runs a disconcertingly rocky path to the baseball. Melky’s instincts are better, he’s just not as fast and doesn’t have as good range, but at the same time, he’s not bereft of speed or range and is a very good center fielder.

    An example of a player with speed who gets a good jump is Bernie Williams, who smoothly glided to the ball right off the bat and caused my father, in this respect, to mention DiMaggio whenever we witnessed this together. In fact, Gardner’s great speed betrays his bad reads, because despite that asset it’s far too often an adventure. He’s going to have to get used to a huge area in Yankee Stadium as well, and won’t be able to play as aggressively as he is wont to do.

  152. jake March 29th, 2009 at 6:55 pm

    bodhisattva
    March 29th, 2009 at 6:27 pm
    jake
    March 29th, 2009 at 5:38 pm
    Melky’s arm in CF saves runs. If Gardner doesn’t get on enough to make it worthwhile, he’ll be giving away the bases he steals or legs out, on defense.——————————————————————————————————
    Melky is a good defensive CF. He isn’t special. His good defensive play would, now and then, save a run. To suggest he “saves runs,” as in “saves runs all the time,” is disingenuous.
    Gardner is also a good defensive CF. His arm is average-not quite in Melky’s class-but he’s got extraordinary range. His play in CF would save an occasional run, too.
    Gardner showed throughout his minor league career that he can get on base and score runs. Melky has never demonstrated that on a consistent basis. Gardner regularly popped .OBPs of .360+ in the minors. And he’s patient. And he hits righties and lefties. And he creates havoc on the basepaths—an unmeasurable, but valuable, offensive asset.
    Girardi has made the right choice. Melky would make a fine utility outfielder, but I don’t know that the Yanks have room for him. If they can trade Melky for something of value, I’m sure they will. With Swisher capable of stepping in anywhere in the OF, A-Jax almost ready for the majors, and John Rodriguez capable and staying warm in AAA, Melky is unnecessary.
    ==================================================
    The arm is such a deterrent “all the time”, no one even bothers to run on it anymore. Perhaps that’s why you’re so cavalier about it’s power to prevent runs.
    You could debate, somewhat more credibly, that Gardner may get to certain balls that Melky won’t, precluding and trumping the arm, but trying to dismiss Cabrera’s arm as a defensive weapon is either “disingenuous” or you don’t understand the value of an outfield canon as part of a player’s defensive arsenal.
    Devaluing an outfield arm in either center or right field is to be on shaky ground as a baseball observer. Yet it seems to be in fashion, particularly from people who are excited to have Gardner take over the CF spot. To speak of disingenuousness.
    We will absolutely have Tampa Bay and teams who run taking advantage of Gardner’s arm not being Melky’s. And could anything be more disingenuousness than saying Gardner’s arm is “not quite” in Melky’s class?
    Lol. Not quite.
    ——————————————————————

    1) You’re overestimating Melky’s arm
    2) You’re over-estimating the importance of a +CF arm (see one Williams, Bernie)

  153. DT March 29th, 2009 at 6:55 pm

    Wow, lots of back and forth on the CF thing.
    To sooth the angry masses:

    When CC is pitching –

    Cabrera can play CF, Gardner can DH for Cabrera, CC can hit.
    ;-)

  154. PAT M. March 29th, 2009 at 6:58 pm

    Sox have a good core & solid front on the rotation pitching, plus an excellent closer.. They’ll beat out Tampa for the WC…

  155. bodhisattva March 29th, 2009 at 6:58 pm

    Giuseppe Franco
    March 29th, 2009 at 6:54 pm
    Giuseppe, you don’t improve an arm that is considered by scouts to be well below average. There is a lot of space to cover in center and with that arm it will be where single grow up to doubles and doubles become triples. It will be like having JG at first base when everybody made him make a throw. This time it will be in Center field.
    ——————
    As I stated earlier, I’d rather have the guy with better range who can flag down more fly balls.
    Go look around the league and tell me which center fielders have plus arms.
    There aren’t very many and they seem to do okay.
    Gardner will be fine and so will the Yankee defense.
    =============================================

    Mantle was faster than Gardner and a more powerful runner. Similar in that he didn’t get the greatest of jumps, either, but he outran the ball. Even so, he was forced to use his arm, and it was fortunately a canon. Gardner’s lack of arm will hurt the defense. You cannot Pollyanna it from being so.

  156. vinny-b (Girardi, Pettitte, Mo, Matsui, Gardner = my top 5) March 29th, 2009 at 6:59 pm

    “I hate to say it but i still think that the red sox are better then us, their bullpen is damn scary……”

    lol

  157. ajaxisgod March 29th, 2009 at 7:00 pm

    this time next year I’ll smote both you false prophets!!!!

  158. trisha - As long as you're in pinstripes, Kei, I've got your back. March 29th, 2009 at 7:02 pm

    I hope everyone is okay with me disagreeing about the Sox? My prediction is that the Rays will finish ahead of the Sox and the Yanks will take the division. By my calculations, that puts the Sox at most in third.

  159. Giuseppe Franco March 29th, 2009 at 7:02 pm

    Mantle was faster than Gardner and a more powerful runner. Similar in that he didn’t get the greatest of jumps, either, but he outran the ball. Even so, he was forced to use his arm, and it was fortunately a canon. Gardner’s lack of arm will hurt the defense. You cannot Pollyanna it from being so.

    ————

    The arm issue is ovah-rated and always has been.

    Teams win rings with pitching – not the center fielder’s arm.

  160. Tom in NJ March 29th, 2009 at 7:04 pm

    Grasping at straws here with the weak arm argument. Highlight the one thing Melky has a clear advantage over Brett and beat it to death.

  161. bodhisattva March 29th, 2009 at 7:04 pm

    1) You’re overestimating Melky’s arm
    2) You’re over-estimating the importance of a +CF arm (see one Williams, Bernie)
    ========================================================
    You’re making statements without addressing my points. As for Bernie, Gardner on his best day is not in that class. Even so, if Bernie’s lack of arm was such a non-issue, why was it bemoaned as his only defensive blemish?

    Melky’s arm is tremendous. And it’s not his only attribute defensively. He is a very good center fielder. Were he not, the considerable gaps in Yankee Stadium would have long ago exposed him. He would not have been able to function in that vast place. As it was, he sealed the gaps and kept our AWFUL corner outfielders from causing too much damage.

  162. Nick in SF March 29th, 2009 at 7:04 pm

    I’m totally okay with any predections, especially ones that have the Sox finishing 3rd, but is it also your contention, Trisha, that the Sox will be lucky to finish ahead of the Orioles and the Blue Jays, as you stated?

  163. trisha - As long as you're in pinstripes, Kei, I've got your back. March 29th, 2009 at 7:04 pm

    I have also already predicted that the New York Yankees are going to have one of their fastest starts ever and will end up running away with the division.

    I stand by that also.

    Wow the Sooners got creamed. Now I didn’t PREDICT anything about the Sooners, I just wanted North Carolina to get beaten. So now I will just hope that Villanova kills them.

    :D

  164. vinny-b (Girardi, Pettitte, Mo, Matsui, Gardner = my top 5) March 29th, 2009 at 7:05 pm

    “I hope everyone is okay with me disagreeing about the Sox? My prediction is that the Rays will finish ahead of the Sox and the Yanks will take the division. By my calculations, that puts the Sox at most in third”

    co-signed

  165. Russell NY March 29th, 2009 at 7:05 pm

    This is great news, Gardner is a better all-around player than Melky.

  166. trisha - As long as you're in pinstripes, Kei, I've got your back. March 29th, 2009 at 7:07 pm

    vinny-b, as always, you rock!

    ;)

    Well gotta get ready for my very first fantasy baseball draft!

    Later y’all.

  167. bodhisattva March 29th, 2009 at 7:07 pm

    Tom in NJ
    March 29th, 2009 at 7:04 pm
    Grasping at straws here with the weak arm argument. Highlight the one thing Melky has a clear advantage over Brett and beat it to death
    =======================================================

    Look, if Gardner turns into Rivers and swipes 60 bases, that would be peachy with me.

    Melky is also the better hitter. In fact, Melky Cabrera is a good young hitter who can get better. He has tools and he already can hit a breaking ball consistently; always has been able to. Can Gardner? I hope so, but I don’t think so. I like his tenacity and base-running potential, but to me, he’ll ultimately be better off the bench as a pinch runner, because he can rely on someone else to get him on base. I hope I’m wrong and we terrorize the AL when the lineup turns over.

  168. Russell NY March 29th, 2009 at 7:08 pm

    I want to see the Sox have a full season without Manny and with an 80 year old Smoltz and NL specialist Brad Penny before I make any judgments.

  169. vinny-b (Girardi, Pettitte, Mo, Matsui, Gardner = my top 5) March 29th, 2009 at 7:08 pm

    “Well gotta get ready for my very first fantasy baseball draft”

    kewl. good luck, trisha

  170. S.A.-The 2009 MLB season is almost here March 29th, 2009 at 7:08 pm

    So…who is god? Brett? Melky? Or is it AJax?

  171. Tom in NJ March 29th, 2009 at 7:10 pm

    the holy trinity, S.A.

  172. BrettIsGod March 29th, 2009 at 7:12 pm

    i wantthe yankees to win. without brett, they dont win

  173. Um.... March 29th, 2009 at 7:12 pm

    the holy trinity, holy trinity of mediocrity.

  174. Nick in SF March 29th, 2009 at 7:12 pm

    vinny-b, you’re a stand-up guy, do *you* think the Red Sox will be lucky to finish ahead of the O’s and Jays?

  175. Russell NY March 29th, 2009 at 7:13 pm

    “In fact, Melky Cabrera is a good young hitter who can get better. He has tools and he already can hit a breaking ball consistently; always has been able to.”

    Well if he can get better he probably should have done that the past 3 years instead of getting worse:

    2006 – .280/.360/.391
    2007 – .273/.327/.391
    2008 – .249/.301/.341

  176. Dr. Cox March 29th, 2009 at 7:14 pm

    “The Yanks won four rings with a guy who had a below average arm in CF.
    Boston won one too with a below average arm in CF. He happens to be playing LF for the Yanks now.”

    And Boom goes the Dynamite…

  177. BrettIsGod March 29th, 2009 at 7:14 pm

    And I hate to say i told you so but I told you so. So you can stop mocking me now. Everyone laughed last year, well you aent laughing now. Im going to find my exact quote but I said that come next year brett gardner would be the starter center fielder. You insulted me so bad I left. Well Im back

  178. Anthony Murillo March 29th, 2009 at 7:15 pm

    Yankees should REALLY trade Melky Cabrera now that his stock is slightly high. I’m sorry but I cannot STAND Melky. If the Yankees can get something decent in return for him, I’d say trade him.

    Also, I’m going to be a realist here and say Gardner’s hot hitting will not carry into the 2009 season. A baseball season is a long one and I just can’t see Gardner being an offensive thread come October.

  179. Tom in NJ March 29th, 2009 at 7:15 pm

    bodhisattva, Hey man, I hear what you’re saying, and I share your skepticism on Gardner. But, there’s a reason the CF job was up for grabs-Melky was awful last year.

  180. raymagnetic aka Cold Baller March 29th, 2009 at 7:16 pm

    LOL @ all the posters who are talking about Bernie Williams arm in center being a factor that Brett Gardner can use.

    Bernie Williams was the best CF in the game in 98,99, 2000 and 2001. Yes, Williams was better offensively than Ken Griffey Jr. during his peak.

    To talk about Williams arm in center is just ridiculous because he brought so much more to the team on the offensive side of the ball.

    Sometimes reading this board I don’t think people realize just how good a player Williams was.

    He may have had a weak arm but he was one of the best players in baseball during his peak years.

  181. Nick in SF March 29th, 2009 at 7:16 pm

    BrettisGod: the shtick is funny; I’m still laughing.

  182. Dr. Cox March 29th, 2009 at 7:16 pm

    “As for Bernie, Gardner on his best day is not in that class”

    I think we should give Gardner atleast one full season in center to make that assessment, no?

  183. m is for mlb.com March 29th, 2009 at 7:17 pm

    I’m sorry, I don’t recall Gardner “falling apart” at the end of last season. Anyone?

  184. RDG March 29th, 2009 at 7:19 pm

    The Sox may not be as dominant as TB or NY during the 162 season, but they will be deadly in the playoffs.

    Two of the best postseason pitchers of all-time, Beckett and Smoltz will be on their roster. Lester did excellent last yr in the playoffs and won game 4 vs. COL in 07. Dice-K has a great postseason record and has excelled in International Competition on a big stage too.

    Plus in the pen they’ll bring Bard up by then blowing 100 MPH FBs by people along with Saito, Okijima, Ramirez, Masterson leading up to Papelbon… maybe guys like Buchholz or Tawaza come out of the pen too.

    Plus their offense is battle tested. I’ll take their roster in October, I’ll take ours during 162.

  185. DT March 29th, 2009 at 7:19 pm

    I think BrettisGod is just misunderstood.

    He really wanted to be *BrettisGood* – but he ran into that dreaded LOHUD nickname three vowel limit.

  186. vinny-b (Girardi, Pettitte, Mo, Matsui, Gardner = my top 5) March 29th, 2009 at 7:20 pm

    “vinny-b, you’re a stand-up guy, do you think the Red Sox will be lucky to finish ahead of the O’s and Jays”

    barely.

    in seriousness: I select NYY, based on talent. And i select TB, cuz i believe they are talented & hungry. Boston is in the wrong division.

  187. raymagnetic aka Cold Baller March 29th, 2009 at 7:20 pm

    “I think we should give Gardner atleast one full season in center to make that assessment, no?”

    Surely you jest Dr. Cox. Gardner is no where close to being in Bernie Williams class. No. Where. Close.

    From 1995-2002 Bernie Williams never posted an OPS+ lower than 129. Gardner will be lucky to be even league average.

  188. Bo knows March 29th, 2009 at 7:21 pm

    Four of our starters are flyball pitchers”

    Now that’s a load of Bull. Last game in 7.2 innings CC gave up 3 flyballs and so on. Who’s the flyball pitcher that is so bad. Melky tanked last year. That’s a fact and arm or not doesn’t change that.

    Just because you’re repeating yourself doesn’t make it right.

  189. Nick in SF March 29th, 2009 at 7:21 pm

    m: I don’t, I recall him finishing the season with the job and Melky not even getting much play in September. But those were dark days when the Yanks were lucky to finish in 3rd place.

  190. bodhisattva March 29th, 2009 at 7:21 pm

    Russell NY
    March 29th, 2009 at 7:13 pm
    “In fact, Melky Cabrera is a good young hitter who can get better. He has tools and he already can hit a breaking ball consistently; always has been able to.”
    Well if he can get better he probably should have done that the past 3 years instead of getting worse:
    2006 – .280/.360/.391
    2007 – .273/.327/.391
    2008 – .249/.301/.341
    =====================================================
    His mechanics are solid, have been since Winter Ball, like they were back in 2006, when he was primarily a slap hitter.

    He’s also 24 years old, and is a guy who gets better in High Leverage situations, something I have noticed and always liked about him:

    .318 .362 .417 .779

    That’s 265 ML ABs.

    I don’t just look at stats, I look at the player’s bat speed, does he protect the plate well, etc. Melky will hit in MLB, last year was an adjustment to more power. He’s successfully accommodated the drive with his former mechanics.

  191. jennifer March 29th, 2009 at 7:22 pm

    Just a reminder for those in Fran’s fantasy baseball the draft begins in a few minutes.

  192. BrettIsGod March 29th, 2009 at 7:22 pm

    I agree with most o you. On one hand I am pleased to see brett getting the respect and praise he deserves. On the other hand I am saddened by how flaky and fickle you are. i know some of you bashed brett before.

    And I dont think brett is literally god but a baseball god. Big difference.

  193. Tank March 29th, 2009 at 7:23 pm

    Gardner has the work ethic and ‘grittiness’ to outperform his ceiling.

    As Cashman said, he is Juan Pierre with OBP.

    Remember that play against the Sox last week where he scored from 3rd on a chopper back to the pitcher? That’s what he does for you. Winning plays.

  194. Mike Cameron is God March 29th, 2009 at 7:24 pm

    You guys are all fooling yourselves.

    I will be the CF by May 23rd.

  195. m is for mlb.com March 29th, 2009 at 7:25 pm

    Nick,

    Thanks. You know how much I value your opinion. ;)

  196. Nick in SF March 29th, 2009 at 7:25 pm

    Yes, some of us bashed Brett before, but that’s only because we like a little alliteration. SO Melky is a false baseball prophet?

  197. Tom in NJ March 29th, 2009 at 7:27 pm

    This is just like the protestant reformation. I predict a pestilence not seen since the Spanish Inquisition. And nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition.

  198. Nick in SF March 29th, 2009 at 7:27 pm

    vinny-b: I hear you and I’m hopeful you’re correct. Just be careful what you co-sign; in this tough climate, you could go bankrupt without even being wrong!

  199. Joe March 29th, 2009 at 7:27 pm

    8th inning, runners on with Gardner up. Swisher pinch hits for Gardner. Melky takes over in CF in the next inning.

  200. Nick in SF March 29th, 2009 at 7:30 pm

    Tom: so Joe Girardi is like Martin Luther? Tampa is Wittenberg? The 25-man roster is the 95 Theses?

  201. Glenn March 29th, 2009 at 7:31 pm

    It was good competition between Gardner and Melky but Girardi obviously has a plan and it includes making things happen opposed to waiting for them to happen such as last year.
    Gardner will need to keep working with Kevin Long to take full advantage of his speed.

  202. DT March 29th, 2009 at 7:31 pm

    “So Melky is a false baseball prophet?”

    I think I heard Melky was Budda, but it maybe it was Melky is smooth like buttah – I get confused.

  203. vinny-b (Girardi, Pettitte, Mo, Matsui, Gardner = my top 5) March 29th, 2009 at 7:33 pm

    “I hear you and I’m hopeful you’re correct. Just be careful what you co-sign; in this tough climate, you could go bankrupt without even being wrong”

    I know : )

  204. Dr. Cox March 29th, 2009 at 7:34 pm

    “Surely you jest Dr. Cox. Gardner is no where close to being in Bernie Williams class. No. Where. Close.
    From 1995-2002 Bernie Williams never posted an OPS+ lower than 129. Gardner will be lucky to be even league average.”

    Will Gardner have the career Bernie had, probably not. But I am not about to dismiss a 25 year old who has tremendous potential when he is on the brink of his first full season in the Majors. You HAVE to give him a chance, at least.

  205. Nick in SF March 29th, 2009 at 7:39 pm

    dennis: if you’re out there, I felt badly for you when Lawson missed that ft.

    Everyone else: given that Melky makes more dough and is out of options, isn’t it likely that he would have gotten the nod had the competition been deemed equal in other areas?

  206. Bo knows March 29th, 2009 at 7:43 pm

    All this verbiage is premature. We won’t know until we find out if Gardiner can adjust to the league adjusting to him. When he starts struggling and he will, Melky will be there, so right now no worries. Melky is still in the hunt but defensively he is barely average,(check Fangraphs)

  207. curious March 29th, 2009 at 7:45 pm

    “I think we should give Gardner atleast one full season in center to make that assessment, no?”

    that Gardner won’t be as good as Bernie?

    no, we don’t need to give him a full season. there is 0% chance of that. none. zero.

    Bernie Williams is one of the 20 best CFers in the history of baseball. he is RIGHT ON TOP of the border for the Hall of Fame.

    i’m happy for Gardner, but you guys need to pass me some of whatever you are smoking.

  208. curious March 29th, 2009 at 7:47 pm

    “But I am not about to dismiss a 25 year old who has tremendous potential when he is on the brink of his first full season in the Majors. You HAVE to give him a chance, at least.”

    he is getting a chance. no one is saying he shouldn’t get a chance.

    but to even put him in the same sentence as Bernie Williams is absurd and it’s setting completely unrealistic expectations.

  209. dennis-costanza(sox fan) March 29th, 2009 at 7:48 pm

    NICKSF…

    No kidding. Thanks for following the #’s to know those free throws mattered. A missed dunk by TH cost me an assist on the next possesion as well. I hate the “hook” loss..

    In other news, I just hope this rag-tag Red Sox squad can muster 3rd place.

    One can dislike Duke, but does anyone else “can’t stand Coach K”..

    Confused in Savannah…

    -dennis

  210. espresso March 29th, 2009 at 7:48 pm

    I think that Gardner out played Melky this spring, but I’m not convinced he will hang onto it. The debate on cf arms missed the point, the team now has below average arms at every outfield position. Bernie’s weak arm is irrelevant, he’s not out there anymore. One more thing, Ichiro is in tv not center.

    I’m happy for Brett, hope he plays well, but I bet Melky gets some abs by the end of the season. Gardner’s impact on offense is probably over rated. Speed is fun to watch, but getting on base and stringing hits together is how this offense will score bunches of runs. If Gardner gets on base then he’s doing his job.

  211. MattNC March 29th, 2009 at 7:49 pm

    Neither Melky nor Gardner has proved that he is an MLB starter, let alone a deity.

    If Melky (one home run every 60+ at-bats in over 1400 ABs, and a pathetic .374 career SLG %) would stop over swinging in nearly every PA, he would have a chance to make a contribution to the offense. But his regression the last 3 years (OPS+ of 95, 89 and a putrid 68 in 2008) has cost him that chance for the time being.

    Melky’s supporters have to realize how bad he was in 2008. Melky created an absurdly low 3.4 runs per 27 outs. That is, a lineup of 9 Melkys (and keep in mind that he is an outfielder) would have scored around 3.4 runs per game, or 550 runs over 162 games. That would have been easily the worst offense in baseball (San Diego was MLB-worst at 637 runs in 2008). Melky had 37 RBI and 42 runs scored in 129 games. That’s horrendous.

    I’m skeptical of Gardner’s ability to hold onto the CF job, but he deserves a look. His speed is badly needed on this aging team.

    If Melky regains the job (or even a platoon opportunity) I wouldn’t expect him to be as bad as he was in 2008, but I don’t think he will ever be an entrenched, multi-year contract starting CF’er, especially on the Yankees.

  212. Nick in SF March 29th, 2009 at 7:53 pm

    TigerIsGod?

  213. Dr. Cox March 29th, 2009 at 7:54 pm

    “no, we don’t need to give him a full season. there is 0% chance of that. none. zero”

    Hmm, you’re right. I guess no one here has to watch any games this season. Since you are a psychic and can undoubtedly predict the future, why don’t you just TELL us how the season will go and how each individual player will fare.

    Bernie was amazing, chances are the yanks wont have a homegrown center-fielder of that caliber again. But how can you write off a kid who has never played a full season in the majors and already predict what he will achieve and how he will achieve it.

  214. Blackdragon905 March 29th, 2009 at 7:57 pm

    Tiger is just something else. WOW!!!!!!!

  215. curious March 29th, 2009 at 7:57 pm

    “Hmm, you’re right. I guess no one here has to watch any games this season. Since you are a psychic and can undoubtedly predict the future, why don’t you just TELL us how the season will go and how each individual player will fare.”

    are you serious?

    so, if i said: “maybe we should give Dave Robertson a full season to prove he’s not as good as Mariano Rivera”

    you wouldn’t tell me i was being ridiculous?

    that’s basically what you are doing. Gardner has NO CHANCE of ever being as good as Bernie Williams.

    none. i don’t need to be a psychic to tell you that.

    all you have to know is that he’ll never, ever hit for enough power to be as good as Bernie.

    i’m sorry, it’s an absurd argument.

    “maybe we should give Ramiro Pena an entire season before we say he’ll never be as good as Derek Jeter”

    see how silly that sounds?

  216. PAT M. March 29th, 2009 at 7:58 pm

    Screw Dule & Coach K, now that the Olympics are over….

  217. curious March 29th, 2009 at 8:00 pm

    “But how can you write off a kid who has never played a full season in the majors and already predict what he will achieve and how he will achieve it.”

    NO ONE is “writing off” Brett Gardner. this is a strawman.

    saying that Gardner will never he a Hall of Famer (because that is what it means to be better than Bernie) is NOT the same as “writing him off”

    it’s just being realistic. i am excited as anyone to see what he can do, but i’m sorry, Brett Gardner WILL NOT BE A HALL OF FAMER.

  218. Nick in SF March 29th, 2009 at 8:01 pm

    dennis: I understand your confusion, but I cannot sit idly by as you obliquely criticize a -respected- frequent LoHud commenter. I am shocked, shocked, and must now depart in protest. Good day, sir.

  219. update March 29th, 2009 at 8:05 pm

    Giambi’s spring :

    Average .122
    OBP .217
    Slugging % .196

  220. dennis-costanza(sox fan) March 29th, 2009 at 8:06 pm

    NickSF.

    Its a strained oblique.

    Have a good night.

    -dennis

  221. Dr. Cox March 29th, 2009 at 8:08 pm

    “it’s just being realistic. i am excited as anyone to see what he can do, but i’m sorry, Brett Gardner WILL NOT BE A HALL OF FAMER.”

    Listen, point taken. I understand Gardner will have to live up to unrealistic expectations to be considered on par with Bernie, I get it. But that really isn’t MY point. My point is that sometimes in this game, you have to expect the unexpected and realize that anything is possible. You have to actually be patient and wait and see how a player will turn out.

    It is just irresponsible to automatically assume that Gardner will not be as good as Bernie. In all reality, you are most likely correct that he wont be. All I am saying is that you can’t just say “no chance. zero. none” because in this game, it’s just not the way it is.

    I remember a few years back there was a very large kid who could only hit a fastball and no breaking stuff. Dozens of scouts passes on him until he was finally drafted 402nd in the 1999 draft, until he decided to perfect his game in the independent leagues.

    His name was Albert Pujols. My point really has less to do with Gardner and more to do with expecting the unexpected in this game. Joba is another example of this.

  222. IRA March 29th, 2009 at 8:31 pm

    Still trying to figure out why Robertson did make the team ALthough Ramirez has the great changeup, I believe Robertson has a better complement of pitches. THanks

  223. Felix March 29th, 2009 at 8:32 pm

    Thanks to everybody for reading today.

    R U Drunk

  224. curious March 29th, 2009 at 8:34 pm

    Dr. C, fair enough.

  225. bodhisattva March 29th, 2009 at 8:37 pm

    It is just irresponsible to automatically assume that Gardner will not be as good as Bernie.
    ========================================================

    Are you for real? Is this even being debated? Do you even watch baseball? Look, it’s swell that everybody here is riding this guy’s jock, but this has to win an award for the most ridiculous comment I have ever seen in this forum.

    No offense, but get a clue, son. We can automatically assume without angering the baseball Gods. Trust me.

  226. m March 29th, 2009 at 8:44 pm

    If everyone checks their expectations at the door, we’ll all be better for it.

    Brett & Melky just need to play good defense and avoid becoming an ‘automatic out’.

    They don’t need to be held up to the lofty standards of those who preceded them. Including Melky’s. :)

    Just give Gardner a chance to show what he can do. Let the others do the heavy lifting.

  227. TIDROW March 29th, 2009 at 8:46 pm

    Everybody keeps focusing on comparing Gardner and Melky but if you ask me the guy to trade is Swisher. Check out his numbers the guy isn’t really that impressive and he had a terrible year in 2008. Why isn’t anyone focusing on that? I guess fans give him a pass because of his personality. What the Yankees should do is trade either him or Nady like it was being discussed earlier in the year and let Melky be the fourth outfielder.

  228. rconn23 March 29th, 2009 at 8:47 pm

    The assertion that Melky Cabrera “has shown” that he is a better hitter than Gardner is just not true.

    Cabrera played almost three years and his play has only diminished. He’s a middling player. Whatever, his ceiling may or may not be, the numbers show the real story about Cabrera. He is a below average major league outfielder.

    Gardner? Well, in time he may not prove to be much better. But the Yankees have to find out the answer to that question.

    However, I love that so many people are convinced Gardner will fail based on a very small-sample size last year. Silly.

    The best solution for the Yankees is to hope Austin Jackson produces at AAA this year, and is ready to take the mantle, at least by next year.

    Jackson has star potential, but he could just be a “tools” guy whose athleticism doesn’t translate to hard numbers. Let’s hope he becomes the centerfielder for the next decade.

    In the meantime, the difference between Gardner and Cabrera is simple. Gardner has shown two helpful skills, speed and range in the outfield, while Cabrera has displayed none.

  229. Tom in NJ March 29th, 2009 at 8:48 pm

    Was this commercial ever on TV? I don’t remember ever seeing it.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBF1lsZUlUI

  230. LMAO March 29th, 2009 at 8:51 pm

    Well, bodhisattva, apparently it is okay to assume that Melky will never be anything more than a 4th OF but “irresponsible” to assume that Brett won’t be the next Bernie Williams.

    I agree, people do need to get off this guy’s jock. I am embarassed for some of you.

  231. Dr. Cox March 29th, 2009 at 8:55 pm

    Bodhisattva:

    Welcome to this forum is you think THAT was the most ridiculous comment ever written. You’re obviously new.

    See my above post to see clarification.

  232. Shred Em March 29th, 2009 at 9:08 pm

    In 94 AAA games, before Kevin Long made significant improvements to his swing, Gardner batted a .296/.414/.422 clip with 11 triples, 68 runs, 70 walks and 37 stolen bases. Gardner’s track record has shown that he can indeed draw a walk and get on base, and when he does he has a knack for making things happen. And on this team, if Brett hits .275/.350 and catches the ball, he will be an impact player.

  233. trisha - As long as you're in pinstripes, Kei, I've got your back. March 29th, 2009 at 9:14 pm

    I see Nick in SF and

    -dennis

    his girlfriend were at it again. They always do their best work once after I announce my departure. Two –losers– really brave chicks.

    YAWN!

    And for the DUH post of the day:

    “I’m totally okay with any predections, especially ones that have the Sox finishing 3rd, but is it also your contention, Trisha, that the Sox will be lucky to finish ahead of the Orioles and the Blue Jays, as you stated?”

    Gee, I’ll have to think about that one for a while. Is something my contention, as I stated? Now why would someone think something you stated might be your contention?

    I guess I shouldn’t expect more from the San Francisco clipper.

    P.S. Nick – don’t bother addressing anymore of your inane questions or comments to me because it is now on. Maybe playing both sides of the street washes in SF, but I don’t play that game child. You want to play “let’s throw out insults for a laugh?” I’m right there with you.

  234. dennis-costanza(sox fan) March 29th, 2009 at 9:30 pm

    Trisha. (I know up front there is no upside to writing this)

    First, It is not my best work. It is mediocore at best.

    There are plenty of examples where you sign off and are still posting an hour later. I have done the same thing.

    It is very surprising to me that someone “cant stand” Coach K without knowing him. Perhaps you do. (Much like Jake Peavy being a piece of garbage)

    As for the Sox, it is your opinion.

    -dennis

  235. Backbench March 29th, 2009 at 9:30 pm

    MLB on XM made mention of a NYY trade package on the table to Toronto for Doc Halladay. The Toronto fans were saying it wasn’t enough, although they concede the team is probably going to have to trade Doc to get pitching help.

    Has anyone heard anything about this, or is this some kind of old news?

  236. Teixeiramvp March 29th, 2009 at 9:38 pm

    Oh, I would LOVE to get Halladay. Best pitcher in the entire league, and certainly the best I’ve seen.
    On a side note, glad Gardner won.

  237. Teixeiramvp March 29th, 2009 at 9:41 pm

    I think Gardner can really surprise everybody and be a much better player than we all seem to think.

  238. Tom in NJ March 29th, 2009 at 9:41 pm

    Any package for Halladay would have to start with Wang, right (sorry about the pun).

  239. curious March 29th, 2009 at 9:41 pm

    “The Toronto fans were saying it wasn’t enough, although they concede the team is probably going to have to trade Doc to get pitching help.”

    trade one of the 5 best pitchers on earth to get “pitching help”.

    well, that seems odd.

  240. trisha - As long as you're in pinstripes, Kei, I've got your back. March 29th, 2009 at 9:42 pm

    -dennis

    There is no upside to you making snide comments ABOUT me and then attempting to address anything TO me.

    You are absolutely correct.

  241. Teixeiramvp March 29th, 2009 at 9:46 pm

    I guess they meant they want young arms.
    Halladay is good enough that if someone is not absolutely necessary to the team’s sucess, trade them to get him!

  242. RenoNy March 29th, 2009 at 9:47 pm

    LMAO. You’re one of the few people on this board that makes any sense. Some of the posts here regarding Gardner’s phantom ability are so absurd and inane that I can understand why you’re laughing.

  243. Backbench March 29th, 2009 at 9:51 pm

    “trade one of the 5 best pitchers on earth to get “pitching help”.

    well, that seems odd.”

    The context was that Toronto has had so many injuries to their staff, and now with the news that their closer is fading fast, that they will have to consider trading Doc to get the rest of the pitching they currently do not have. So apparently (my conjecture) the NYYs have pulled together a package of SPs and bull pen talent that might pry Doc out of Toronto.

  244. Teixeiramvp March 29th, 2009 at 9:52 pm

    Melky has had several seasons in the bigs, and he has not done great.
    Gardner’s had part of a season. Nobody said he had any phantom ability. They’re just waiting and watching because they don’t know. He might. For all we know, he COULD be the next Rickey Henderson.
    The odds of that are practically zero. But not zero. Nothing is ever zero in baseball. It’s been proven countless numbers of times.
    Nobody, including me, is calling Gardner a great player. I’m calling him an unknown entity. He could be great. Or he could be a bust. We’ll see.

  245. dennis-costanza(sox fan) March 29th, 2009 at 9:55 pm

    Backbench.

    I just have a hard time believing that Toronto would trade Doc within the AL East. It would be a tough PR call to begin with and then trading within the div would be a nightmare. JMO.

    -dennis

  246. PAT M. March 29th, 2009 at 9:59 pm

    The positive is taht Gradner had a good September and followed that up with a better Sring Training…..However that amounts to nothing more than a dress rehearsal…What I find encouraging is that his approach in the box is much better than when he was first called up….I’m with the Shred Em, if he can hit around .275 with an ob of .350 and play good CF, maybe the Yanks have something..Those numbers translate into 40 sb’s……….I see Tricia is ready for the 09 season vs. Nick in SF…..

  247. Bronx Jeers March 29th, 2009 at 10:00 pm

    I don’t see anything circulating about Halladay. One would assume that any possible trade would have to include Joba or Hughes. Possibly both?

    Yanks don’t even really need Halladay at this point.

    I’ve been rooting for Gardner for a long time but if his patrolling CF means that brettisgod will be patrolling this blog I may have to re-think things.

    Earlier this evening I was watching some show on MLB network that did a segemnt on John Challis and it showed how many players interacted with the kid over the course of last season. And even though I doubt any player gave him the personal attention that Arod did when he had him over to his apartment and drove him up to Yankee stadium, there was no mention of Arod in the segment. Arod would have actually got some good press courtesy of MLB but no dice I guess. Is MLB distancing itself from Alex?

  248. Vince March 29th, 2009 at 10:06 pm

    Would you guys give up Hughes and Jackson for Halladay?

    I would.

  249. Teixeiramvp March 29th, 2009 at 10:12 pm

    I would never give up Joba. He has the potential to be even better.
    To get Halladay I’d give Hughes, Kennedy, AJax,Romine Montero…anybody who is not absolutely vital (and I mean vital) to the Yankees and their future, I’d give to get Halladay. As well as boatloads of cash. He’s that great.

  250. Teixeiramvp March 29th, 2009 at 10:12 pm

    When I said he has the potential to be even better, I was of course referring to Halladay.

  251. PAT M. March 29th, 2009 at 10:17 pm

    Texeriamvp….That is the club’d future you’re trading away…..And when Doc hangs them up in 3-4 years the cupboards are empty….Besides Toronto would be set for the next 5-7 years….I can’t see that as a viable option…

  252. GreenBeret7 March 29th, 2009 at 10:21 pm

    Teixeiramvp
    March 29th, 2009 at 10:12 pm
    I would never give up Joba. He has the potential to be even better.
    To get Halladay I’d give Hughes, Kennedy, AJax,Romine Montero…anybody who is not absolutely vital (and I mean vital) to the Yankees and their future, I’d give to get Halladay. As well as boatloads of cash. He’s that great.

    ————————————————————

    You’d better make this one good. Exactly how is Jackson, Montero and Romine not vital to the Yankees’ future? I’d even think twice about including Hughes, who is what Halliday was 10 years ago.

  253. Boston Dave March 29th, 2009 at 10:31 pm

    I can’t see Toronto trading Halladay within the division anyway. They’d prob want him in the NL.

    I doubt Toronto’s owners are Yankee fans.

  254. bodhisattva March 29th, 2009 at 10:38 pm

    rconn23
    March 29th, 2009 at 8:47 pm
    However, I love that so many people are convinced Gardner will fail based on a very small-sample size last year. Silly

    =================
    I can’t speak for anyone else here. My skepticism is based on more than the small sample size produced at the ML level. I’ve seen plenty of this guy in the minors, and I can tell you that IMHO, ML pitchers are NOT going to walk this guy. They just aren’t. He is also NOT a good breaking ball hitter. I’m sorry, but the most rudimentary thing a young hitter has to cope with is learning to hit breaking pitches, if he’s to make a successful jump.

    I’m sure he’ll have some success initially, and I can see he is a kid who is determined to succeed – that’s a credit to him. But I’m sorry, I just am not buying that he’s going to be able to get on base enough to make an impact on our offense. And he’s not going to get the same middling first-pitch FBs he’s built his ST resume on. Believe it or not, opposition hitters aren’t in the same swoon over Brett Gardner that others here are, and they’re going to try to get him out, not make life easy for him so that he can be a Yankee folk hero.

    Could I be wrong? Of course; stranger things have happened. But I just don’t think so.

    ====================================
    Cabrera? I see a guy who can hit. I get it that it goes against the conventional wisdom of this board; I think I can live with that. Do I predict a Cano-like career for him? Of course not – he’s not got THAT kind of talent.

    But there IS a tendency here to either annoint someone or completely dismiss him, and actually, the game of baseball takes place in between. And this guy’s bat doesn’t CARE that you’re sick of him and want a new flavor – he will probably have a very good season offensively, if he gets ABs. I’ve charted his bat through the end of last season, through WB, and ST, to see if the adjustments he’d made stuck, and they have.
    ============

    To the guy who suggested Swisher should go instead, I am completely in agreement; he can’t play CF, he isn’t going to start in RF, he doesn’t bring that much to the table. I’d prefer to put my money on Melky off the bench, and if necessary, Gardner off the bench. We don’t really need Swisher’s miscellaneous OBP – especially if he’s batting in the bottom third of the order. That’s the one place you want someone to drive guys in, not get on base.

  255. bodhisattva March 29th, 2009 at 10:40 pm

    ^^^opposition pitchers, that is

  256. bodhisattva March 29th, 2009 at 10:48 pm

    The best solution for the Yankees is to hope Austin Jackson produces at AAA this year, and is ready to take the mantle, at least by next year.
    Jackson has star potential, but he could just be a “tools” guy whose athleticism doesn’t translate to hard numbers. Let’s hope he becomes the centerfielder for the next decade.
    =====================================================

    Right, but I don’t want AJax rushed. And he has already shown that he is not just toolsy. I saw a lot of him last season and was disappointed in his stance at the plate, and his “noisy” sort of load. First of all, he had this dumb high leg kick (very much like ARod’s) and would use his upper body trying to pull everything.

    I was stunned to see a completely different hitter in ST. Quiet, no leg kick, hands back, and not pull happy at all. That GS swing was a thing of beauty. He is also utterly determined to be a good hitter – motivated like Montero is to catch. But I think you’ll see him move over to LF eventually, because the Yankees have a kid in their system named Eduardo Sosa ticketed for CF.
    I


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