Yankees make their choice: Pena
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Following today’s game, the Yankees added Ramiro Pena to the 40-man roster and reassigned INF Angel Berroa to minor league camp. In order to make room on the 40-man roster, the Yankees designated RHP Dan Giese for assignment.
Pena will wear No. 19.
Instant analysis: This not a move to get to worked up about as Pena will likely be around only until Alex Rodriguez returns. Then Cody Ransom will return to the utility spot.
But it does speak to the change of direction by the Yankees under Joe Girardi that they would take a 23-year-old who has never been above Double-A ball instead of a 31-year-old with eight seasons of big-league experience.
Pena is a superior glove and has some speed, two qualities Girardi treasures. It will be very interesting to see whether the manager will use Pena for defensive purposes at shortstop late in games.
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on Saturday, April 4th, 2009 at 4:44 pm by Peter Abraham.
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Chad Jennings
Sam Borden
Josh Thomson
Nice
He hit like .250 in AAA. He’s going to get the bat knocked out of his hand at the ML level
Stinks for Berroa. He hit well enough to make the team but I don’t blame the Yanks for wanting to go with the glove. Maybe another team wants him for the bench.
i wish they have a 9 game losing streak instead.
9 game winning streak just makes it more likely they’ll drop the opener.
I thought it made more sense for the team to keep Berroa due to issues related to the 40 man roster and flexibility for making in season trades.
I think this move speaks a great deal about how seriously the team is about improving the defense this year in whatever way is feasible. Pena clearly didn’t make the team due to his bat.
Last year it was Betemit and Ensberg on the roster as the extra infielders. Neither of those guys were there for their gloves.
It’s only the 25th man on the roster and that’s simply not going to be that big a deal. But it will now be interesting to see if they decide to keep Pena or Ransom on the roster once alex comes back.
Nice. Lots of people will pan the move, but I think there’s enough veteran leadership on this club to keep the kid from drowning. Hopefully Jeter doesn’t pull a “Cal Ripken” on the poor kid.
Hopefully Angel Berroa doesn’t come back to bite us. But the Yankees gave him a chance and he used it to show that he can still play a little. Good luck to him.
This makes no sense to me at all. Because, the guy has never played above AA, and he’s only going to be there until A-Rod comes back. So why start the clock on him?
Is anyone familiar with stubhub?
Here’s my question: Does stubhub have the seller ship the tickets, or are all tickets sent electronically?
the clock? the yankees are not the rays
Jay: He never played in AAA and he hit pretty well this spring.
CB: Berroa was not on the 40. He also has no trade value.
Dave: How can Berroa come back and bite them? He’s under contract and assigned to Scranton.
Clay.
They are shipped by the seller.
-dennis
Good move. Pena is better than Berroa. Both suck offensively, but Pena has the glove and speed, plus more upside.
Even if the clock starts on him, I don’t think that the Yanks see Pena as their SS of the future. He’s an utility infielder, all glove no bat.
Berroa would cost 800,000 if added to to the 40-man. I wonder if the decision was made based on money.
Girardi and Cashman know what they’re doing.
Basically, neither Berroa or Pena can hit a lick in the Major Leagues. I don’t care about what either one did in spring training– neither one can hit.
Because of that, I think it makes the most sense to keep the guy that has ‘plus’ other qualities like speed and defense. We would only be looking at a few ABs by either one, at least now it makes sense to also get Pena into the game as a pinch runner or defensive substitute (although I think really that he will be most useful as a pinch runner in a late-inning situation.)
Good, tired of geezers coming to camp looking to run a rip job on the Yankees, Chris Hammond, Billy Traber, Josh Phelps to name a few of yesteryear. Glad the Yankees didn’t fall for Tomko and Berroa, these guys careers tell their story, they aren’t getting any better than what they are.
This was the right choice. Saving runs can be as effective as producing runs. If the Yankees need a PH they can use Swisher (Nady) or Cabrera. Pena is clearly the right choice, his bat might benefit also from working with Kevin Long. Good Luck to him and a great year to all the Yankees. (added by Mobile using Mippin)
Pena may have speed, but, he’s not a great base runner and neither is he a steady fielder. He can make the dazzling plays, but, he boots the easy plays. His errors usually come at the worst times. They cost NYY 4 runs this spring, and, if he has to do more than late inning and backup, NYY can’t afford to play Pena and Ransom in a string of the same games, let alone having Molina in the lineup.
He’s a .255 career minor league hitter with next to no power and he doesn’t walk.
“Good, tired of geezers coming to camp looking to run a rip job on the Yankees, Chris Hammond, Billy Traber, Josh Phelps to name a few of yesteryear.”
Oh yeah it’s all the old geezers faults for accepting spring training invites.
How exactly did they “run a rip job” on the Yankees?
“Berroa was not on the 40. He also has no trade value.”
Pete,
That’s not what I was referring to. I was referring to the fact that Pena is not rule V eligible until next winter.
You put Berroa on the 40 man now and then the 25 that’s no big deal. You can easily cut him later on without losing anything.
But that’s not the case with Pena. You put him on the 40 man now and he stays on it. They are not going to DFA him to make room on the 40 man.
There’s not a lot of wasted parts on the 40 man roster anymore.
To give one to Pena a year before you have to isn’t a decision to take lightly, IMO.
If Pena bombs and simply can’t hit major league pitching and needs to go down to AAA then you’ve wasted a spot on the 40 man roster for this entire year.
Alternatively, if you now put Pena on the 40 man roster and decide to keep ransom on the roster once Alex gets back you’ve once again wasted a 40 man roster spot.
If you need to make a trade midseason that becomes an issue.
If the team has decided they will keep Pena over Ransom as the utility guy once Alex comes back then this move is fine.
If they decide Ransom will be the utility guy once Alex gets back this move seems odd to me. You have basically tied up a spot on the 40 man roster one year early with Pena for the added benefit of having him play the first 5-6 weeks of the season as the 25th guy. How many games will be possibly get into in 5 weeks?
Is the marginal difference worth tying up the 40 man roster spot? Berroa doesn’t tie up that spot because you can DFA him afterwards no problem.
Again – if it’s Pena over Ransom then this move makes much more sense.
weather report on baltimore
Monday, 70% chance of rain, 59 deg.
Wednesday, 51 deg.
Thursday, 57 deg.
I think the most interesting part of this will be what happens the next time the Yankees need to make a 40-man decision. Putting him on the 40 man right now means there’s one less guy you can protect from the rule V draft next offseason unless you put Pena on waivers and risk losing him.
I think this shows that they don’t feel that Pena is the shortstop of the future and want to use his glove and speed now.
“Oh yeah it’s all the old geezers faults for accepting spring training invites.
How exactly did they “run a rip job” on the Yankees?”
Well they come into camp and look like worldbeaters remember Josh Phelps in that spring in 07′ hitting everything under the sun, but once the season began he disappeared, Billy Traber last year, our lefty specialist, ha, that worked out real well in the regular season, but he sure looked like hot stuff in Spring.
Rip job may not be the correct terminology but the main point is these guys are usually desperate for a job, but once they have it on the Yankees they then get exposed for what they have always been, pure garbage.
Glad the Yankees went in a different direction than the usual approach.
“Putting him on the 40 man right now means there’s one less guy you can protect from the rule V draft next offseason unless you put Pena on waivers and risk losing him.”
Not exactly. Pena himself is rule V eligible next off season so he would have to be put on the 40 man anyway.
The issue is putting him on the 40 man roster 1 year earlier than is absolutely necessary. That’s only an issue with regards to making in season moves this year e.g. trade, signing, etc.
They very well may feel that any trade they are likely to make this season will only be done from guys on the 40 man roster so that’s not really an issue.
That was clearly one of the factors in the Nady/ Marte trade last year.
Nunez is the shortstop of the future.
That was definitely the right move. He is only going to be up here for about a month and will only get into a couple of games. The last spot on the bench had to be defense and Berroa’s defense is just dreadful. I like that Girardi goes with the best person for the team and not the veteran. Like Torre would of with Berroa and then he would botch every ball hit to him.
Not really a surprising decision if you watched Berroa butcher ground ball after ground ball during Spring Training. A utility infielder has got to contribute by fielding his position and Berroa wasn’t accomplishing that.
That was a surprise. I thought Berroa would be chosen for his bat. Maybe this IS a change in philosophy. Hmmmm…Pitching & Defense. I think the Steroid Era is officially over.
Yeah I agree that any trade this season is going to have to include guys on the 40 man. I wouldn’t be surprised to see a trade of either Melky or Nady sometime in June which would leave us with a bench of Swisher/Melky, Molina, Ransom, Pena. That’s not a bad bench by any means
I don’t see Pena going in for defense for Jeter unless it’s a blow out to give Derek a breather.
(if he should is another story)
The 25th man will most likely be a pinch runner in the late innings.
Here is a question – Posada hits a double in the 9th with the Yanks down a run – do you use Melky or Pena to pinch run for Jorge?
Neither Nunez (Luis or Eduardo) nor Pena are likely to ever be “the shortstops of the future”…at least not for the Yankees.
Clay,
once you pay the seller, he will email you the tix within 24 hours. it’s reliable. if you haven’t recieved anything then, contact stubhub.
oh man the yankees season is over…they picked pena over berroa :X…what were they thinking!!!!….come on guys its not that serious…and lol’s at the person who is worried about pena’s clock starting..these are the yankees…there not scared of paying arb fees…but in all reality he may not even be in the organization that long enough for it to matter
For the time he’ll be on the 25-man roster, Ramiro Pena will be used as a pinch runner or defensive replacement for Jeter, Ransom, or Cano if the team is holding a sizeable lead late in the game.
He should listen to all advice from Kevin Long to get his hitting on par with his fielding.
Now you might have to think if Girardi has the **guts** to pull Jeter out during the bottom of the 9th (of course if the Yanks are winning)?
DT
April 4th, 2009 at 5:16 pm
I don’t see Pena going in for defense for Jeter unless it’s a blow out to give Derek a breather.
(if he should is another story)
The 25th man will most likely be a pinch runner in the late innings.
Here is a question – Posada hits a double in the 9th with the Yanks down a run – do you use Melky or Pena to pinch run for Jorge?
————————————————————
Unless they plan on putting Pena in to replace Jeter late in the game, no way you can use him. I’d use Cabrera, who has plenty of substitutes .
I wouldn’t be surprised to see Pena traded this year.
There’s been an odd amount of buzz about him in spring training with several scouts saying that they now see him as a viable major leaguer.
If there’s some team that sees Pena as a potential starting MLB SS the yanks should sell high and trade him.
Good, Berroa is awful defensively. They don’t need a backup SS whose defensive is worse than Jeter’s.
CB,
you would think the Yanks would do the same thing as last year trading A-Gon at the deadline to Pena this year?
ED.
I have bought and sold on Stub Hub and have never been able to do via email. The Red Sox will not let you do a ticket swap electronically on line with a stub hub purchase. I move some of my season tickets that I can’t use and I have to send via UPS/Fed Ex overnight. Can you please explain if I am missing something? Please.
-dennis
Shouldn’t Pena be sent back to AAA so he can play every day? Why have him sit for 6 weeks and miss out on 6 weeks playing every day at Scranton.
I suppose if they really needed a spot, they could always DFA Humberto Sanchez. The guy just can’t keep his arm attached
San Diego would be a good landing spot for Pena in a package deal. In another year or so, if he’s available, I’d like to see Yuniesky Betencourt playing shortstop for NYY.
I am not surprised that the Yanks went with Pena. He is a utility infielder who is needed for his glove, not for his bat.
Never gonna happen but it would be fun to see baseball played with offensive and defensive players like football just once to see what a game would look like.
The best 9 hitters at the plate against the best 9 guys in the field could make for some interesting viewing.
“If they decide Ransom will be the utility guy once Alex gets back this move seems odd to me.”
I agree. This move seems odd and I wonder if the Yanks are even thinking this through (I have to think they are but…)
GB7 has mentioned this – if they add Berroa to the 25man it’s an easier decision when Alex comes back in 3-4 weeks. Unless they know now that Pena has a good shot to remain over Ransom, I don’t get it.
Early in the season the 25th man is probably the least used guy on the team. We’re talking weeks here, not months, before Alex is back. How much is Pena going to play?
I haven’t seen enough of him but I’ll go on GB7’s report that Pena isn’t yet a stellar defensive replacement at this point.
Cashman knows what he’s doing roster-wise.
Ed,
I could see that. More likely in package deal. I can’t see him ever being the starting shortstop for the yankees. He just doesn’t hit well enough.
But should some other team think he could be their starter they should trade him.
His trade value would be greater than his use value to the team.
I disagree with the decision but it’s not a huge deal.
To me, Pena showed a lot this spring, and I’d have liked him to get some consistent work at Scranton and see how he did in AAA. It’ll be a shame to see him sitting on the bench rotting here.
Likewise, I agree completely with CB on the 40 man roster spots. Moreover, if Ransom bombs at Third Base, and Pena isn’t ready the Yankees are really in trouble. Berroa at his worst is at least major league ready and could have provided an MLB caliber Third baseman with some pop.
Again, not a huge deal, but given that the Yankees line-up is currently a bit thin with Gardner and Ransom starting, I’d have gone with the better bat on the bench.
Oddly, it’s because I like Pena so much and am intrigued by him that I’d prefer to see him in AAA.
Dennis,
I’m not sure but this “print at home” tickets is new this year. here’s the options:
StubHub’s electronic delivery options cost less than $5 per order:
Instant eDelivery – Get your tickets in minutes from season ticket holders
eDelivery – Get your tickets electronically and print at home
jpb1973
Shouldn’t Pena be sent back to AAA so he can play every day? Why have him sit for 6 weeks and miss out on 6 weeks playing every day at Scranton.
___
Nah, it’s only a month until A-Rod is back. This way they get a better read on how ML ready he is.
The move also tells you that they realize Berroa stinks.
“I wouldn’t be surprised to see Pena traded this year.”
Interesting. It might explain the Yanks thought process, at least.
“San Diego would be a good landing spot for Pena in a package deal. In another year or so, if he’s available, I’d like to see Yuniesky Betencourt playing shortstop for NYY.”
So get better defense, but not much else when it comes to OBP.
CB, thanks for your input.
ED.
Thanks. They have not allowed us to do that in the past.
I appreciate the response.
-dennis
“Nah, it’s only a month until A-Rod is back. This way they get a better read on how ML ready he is.”
He’s never played above AA. He could go 0-10 with 2 errors in his limited time over the next 6 weeks and it wouldn’t tell them much. He isn’t going to get enough time in to make any real assessment.
IMO, they are seriously considering keeping him over Ransom when ARod gets back, or they are going to try to trade him as soon as they can get a good bid.
Yanks officially placed Alex on the DL retroactive to 3/27/09. Is there anything telling in them using that date like when they expect him to be back?
dennis, not a problem at all. you very much welcome.
And who gets released when A-Rod comes back?
Boston Dave
April 4th, 2009 at 5:27 pm
“If they decide Ransom will be the utility guy once Alex gets back this move seems odd to me.”
I agree. This move seems odd and I wonder if the Yanks are even thinking this through (I have to think they are but…)
GB7 has mentioned this – if they add Berroa to the 25man it’s an easier decision when Alex comes back in 3-4 weeks. Unless they know now that Pena has a good shot to remain over Ransom, I don’t get it.
Early in the season the 25th man is probably the least used guy on the team. We’re talking weeks here, not months, before Alex is back. How much is Pena going to play?
I haven’t seen enough of him but I’ll go on GB7’s report that Pena isn’t yet a stellar defensive replacement at this point.
————————————————————
It’s not so much that the Nunez boys and Pena can’t be good glove men at short (because all three can dazzle at times), as much is it that they make errors at the worst times and they cost runs. Pena made 3 errors this spring (all at short) but they accounted for 4 unearned runs.
Boston Dave
He’s never played above AA. He could go 0-10 with 2 errors in his limited time over the next 6 weeks and it wouldn’t tell them much. He isn’t going to get enough time in to make any real assessment.
IMO, they are seriously considering keeping him over Ransom when ARod gets back, or they are going to try to trade him as soon as they can get a good bid.
__
That overlooks that fact that Kevin Long gets to work with him on a regular basis and can assess where he thinks his hitting mechanics are.
I think the move underscores that they are serious about improving this club defensively. TBH, I’m not sure what it says about Ransom.
“And who gets released when A-Rod comes back?”
noone. since Pena now have been added to the roster, they could option him back to the minors.
How is Pena going to increase his trade value by sitting on the bench? Unless someone gets injured, he isin’t going to play.
Seems like a very odd move. Ransom is a better hitter and a good defender in his own right, so I doubt Pena displaces him. Cano and Jeter don’t take any days off. We already have Melky as a pinch runner.
So what is Pena’s use exactly?
CB you make a great point about the 40-man roster and potential issues that may come up. I think that the Yankees should keep Pena over Ransom when A-rod comes back. He is a better fielder, bunter and runner. When A-rod is back, Ransom will never be in the game because of his bat. He could sub in here and there to give A-rod or Jeter a day off but I think Pena brings more to the table.
It does not look good at all for Monday. My guess is we will have our opening day on Tuesday. I don’t think i can wait one more day
http://www.weather.com/outlook.....tid=292484
There’s no way Pena is subbing for Jeet late in games. It would be an insult to our Captain.
“It’s not so much that the Nunez boys and Pena can’t be good glove men at short (because all three can dazzle at times), as much is it that they make errors at the worst times and they cost runs. Pena made 3 errors this spring (all at short) but they accounted for 4 unearned runs.”
—————–
right, but in response to all of the people who are saying that Nunez is a solid late inning defensive replacement… i’d rather have consistency than an occasional dazzling play.
if you are correct, then Nunez needs to be in the minors working on getting that consistency. the last thing I want is a defensive replacement who makes any errors at all. And is Nunez anything but a defensive replacement right now?
Teixeiramvp
April 4th, 2009 at 5:44 pm
There’s no way Pena is subbing for Jeet late in games. It would be an insult to our Captain.
————————————————————
With players that are Jeter’s age and playing shortstop, you give him an inning or two off whenever you get the chance. If he’s insulted because they want to do what’s best for him and in the long run, the team, then, he doesn’t need to be “The Captain”.
Is not even a big decision. I don’t see what’s the big deal. He doesn’t projects as a starter. He’s like Alberto Gonzalez with less offense.
He’s Alex Cora. That’s his upside.
What if Ransom sucks hard in April? While Pena does his job, pinch run plays, nice defense. We would have another decision, Pena or Ransom?
GreenBeret7-I’ll give you the point on the age, but I still think Jeet’s a pretty good defender.
“It would be an insult to our Captain.”
Probably accurate but I don’t like the logic. Not fielding the team that gives you the best chance to win is insulting to the fans and says ego is more important than team.
I think the move underscores that they are serious about improving this club defensively. TBH, I’m not sure what it says about Ransom.”
——————-
Does Nunez improve them defensively? He might but I don’t know that based on what some have said. Did he make more fielding mistakes than Ransom did in spring training? Is his marginal added value, if any, worth the loss of 40man flexibility?
I guess I can’t answer these with a definitive opinion but I am skeptical. I trust in the Yanks front office for now but we’ll see. It’s not a major deal either way but I’d love to know their thought process.
By the way-Jeter deserves to be the Captain as much as Gehrig did and arguably more than Thurman did (taking nothing from Thurman-Great Yankee.)
pat-You also need to remember that Jeter’s a great clutch hitter, someone you want in late in the game.
Patrick,
They may in fact be confident that if they are going to make some kind of trade it will involve them sending multiple players off their 40 man roster and this won’t be an issue mid-season.
Hopefully no one gets hurt and the don’t need to try to go outside the organization to sign a player. That’s the one circumstance where some kind of issue could arise.
Again it’s not a big deal as the likelihood of doing that aren’t that high.
At the start of spring training very few if any people in baseball thought that Pena would be a major league player nevermind a starter. There seems to be at least some scouts who think he is a major league caliber player now.
The Yankees putting him on the 25 man roster helps cement that perception.
So at the beginning spring training Pena had close to zero trade value. He still doesn’t have much now but it’s a lot more than he had before.
Perhaps he could be the 3rd player in a trade now? Before he would have been a complete throw in.
Who knows. I’m sure they’ve thought through the 40 man roster issues.
Before someone brought up them being able to DFA Humberto Sanchez to make a move. Would they really want to do that at this point just because they put Pena on the 40 man?
I’m sure they worked through those different permutations and feel that they will be able to open up more spots on the 40 man via trades.
But it is an issue. If they want to call up Melancon for the pen – which at some point they will – where does his 40 man roster spot come from once Alex gets back?
They need to do another 4-5 player trade this year. Melky, Veras, Stephen Jackson, Claggett to clear up some roster spots and move some of their older prospects.
I would look to trade Veras if at all possible in a package deal for younger prospects. Melancon and Robertson could fill that spot.
Joe had enough problems with players in the clubhouse last year. The last thing he needs to do right now is lose Jeter Once he loses Jeter, he is finished.
Subbing a guy like Jeter for defense nightly is not something that is going to be subtle. The media is going to notice it and bombard Jeter and Girardi with questions and it’s going to be debated on talk radio, MLB Network, ESPN etc. It will turn into a huge controversy and be very embarrassing for Jeter himself.
While it should be done, the negatives of the move far outweigh the positives.
I don’t think pat was arguing against Jeter – just saying that decisions should be made based on winning.
If the situation would normally call for a defensive replacement, you do it. If Jeter is the next man up the following inning, that plays into the decision.
Boston Dave
April 4th, 2009 at 5:47 pm
“It’s not so much that the Nunez boys and Pena can’t be good glove men at short (because all three can dazzle at times), as much is it that they make errors at the worst times and they cost runs. Pena made 3 errors this spring (all at short) but they accounted for 4 unearned runs.”
————————-
right, but in response to all of the people who are saying that Nunez is a solid late inning defensive replacement… i’d rather have consistency than an occasional dazzling play.
if you are correct, then Nunez needs to be in the minors working on getting that consistency. the last thing I want is a defensive replacement who makes any errors at all. And is Nunez anything but a defensive replacement right now?
————————————————————
all three of them make careless errors, due to lack of instruction/inexperience, but, there’s really no options in the upper minors right now. I’d be less concerned with Berroa and his offense/defense because of his relationship with Tony Pena.
Once again, I still think Jeet plays good defense.
If making this team better causes any insult to Jeter, it’s his problem. It would be moronic to worry about his feelings.
You can always release someone like Hacker or Steven Jackson to create a spot if necessary. Not a big deal, we are loaded with relievers.
“It will be very interesting to see whether the manager will use Pena for defensive purposes at shortstop late in games.”
Only if the Yankees are winning 20-5. No way would Girardi embarrass Jeter that way.
A bad move — but a minor move. Since he can’t hit, I don’t think Pena will ever be a starting player. His future is as a utility inf at best. And I’m not a fan of Berroa, but he has experience. I don’t think Pena really “beat out” Berroa this Spring; Girardi just has an affinity for certain guys (see Gardner)that isn’t always based on performance. I think Gardner would’ve been named the starting CF even if he hit .250 — and Cabrera hit .450. I don’t like that type of approach because it sends a bad message to other players. I think Girardi likes small, light hitting, grinder types who do the “little things” — like the way he was; but you need more than those guys to win, IMO.
“Once again, I still think Jeet plays good defense.”
He didn’t look great yesterday, but I have decided that he just needed time to get used to the new stadium’s grass. Yes, that’s it. It’s the grass.
Since pena jacked Luis Sojo ill post this in his honor
http://vids.myspace.com/index......id=5882696
GB7,
I guess, for me, its the fact that this is for a matter of weeks. If they felt Pena should be the guy long term (over Ransom) that’s fine. But to add a guy who will either hardly play at all or be strictly an occasional late inning defensive replacement, I want someone more seasoned on D. Throw in the 40man stuff and it doesn’t add up.
I’m sure there are reasons that I am not thinking of or Pena may be better on D than I’m considering him to be.
I thought it would be a total hack job, but this guy obviously did his homework. My only problem with the story is that Girardi said Mo was fine at Mo’s request. No mention of that.
The story is a must read. Great stuff.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=4037320
Code X
April 4th, 2009 at 5:55 pm
Joe had enough problems with players in the clubhouse last year. The last thing he needs to do right now is lose Jeter Once he loses Jeter, he is finished.
Subbing a guy like Jeter for defense nightly is not something that is going to be subtle. The media is going to notice it and bombard Jeter and Girardi with questions and it’s going to be debated on talk radio, MLB Network, ESPN etc. It will turn into a huge controversy and be very embarrassing for Jeter himself.
While it should be done, the negatives of the move far outweigh the positives.
————————————————————
Neither I nor anybody else said a word about removing Jeter late in the games on a nightly basis. Once or twice a week in blowouts would do wonders to keep him fresh over the long haul. They do it all the time.
Torre would have wanted Berroa. He always liked the veteran players.
” I think Girardi likes small, light hitting, grinder types who do the “little things”—like the way he was; but you need more than those guys to win, IMO.”
That’s why we have A-Rod, Tex, Posada and Matsui to do the heavy lifting. We can afford to carry Gardner if those guys perform up to normal standards.
Like Pete said, this isn’t a big deal since Pena will be shipped out once A-Rod returns. I personally like the move. It’s about time that the Yankees had some guys on the team who weren’t close to getting their AARP cards.
Teixeiramvp
Once again, I still think Jeet plays good defense.
__
I guess everyone is entitled to their opinion, but neither observation or stats support that view. He goes from being just below average to awful.
It’s time to give up the ghost and do what’s best for this team. If winning matters to Jeter as much as he likes people to think, he should volunteer to change positions.
“Not a big deal, we are loaded with relievers.”
There’s no reason to ever waste talent. For the Yankees guys like Hacker or Jackson may not fit into the big picture but they would for other teams and there’s no reason to simply give them away for nothing which is what DFA’ing them would be.
Jackson would have been pitching in the major leagues for several teams this season. He would have made the pens of several teams.
Jeff Karstens is the Pirates 5th starter. Just because he had little value to the Yankees doesn’t mean they should have just cut Karstens. They did the right thing to utilize the talent he did have – they put him in a package trade.
And remember this – having a Karstens and McCutchen to put in that trade was one of the reasons that in the end they didn’t need to include Coke in the deal.
Talent is so hard to find and develop you can’t give it away – no matter how deep your organization may be at a position.
It’s not like Jeter hasn’t been replaced before, albeit in blowouts. Jeter is still a great defender when it counts and is a great rally-starter late in games.
You also need to consider that Jeter’s going to be given the necessary at-bats to reach the magic number: 3000.
But I like having another good IF glove around. It’s been a long time. Alex has been the only good, steady one we’ve had for a while.
“Jeff Karstens is the Pirates 5th starter. Just because he had little value to the Yankees doesn’t mean they should have just cut Karstens.”
————-
Ohlendorf is their 4th starter. Two guys who weren’t going to be part of the Yanks plans now make up 40% of another teams starting rotation (albeit the Pirates).
Cashman obviously has a higher opinion on Pena than most here and thinks he can play at the ML level. I trust his judgement over people who haven’t even heard about him before this Spring.
“It’s time to give up the ghost and do what’s best for this team. If winning matters to Jeter as much as he likes people to think, he should volunteer to change positions.”
Nah, I think we are at least a year away from that. Jeter isn’t embarrassing himself out there. When his performance starts costing us runs/wins, that’s when I’ll worry. Right now, it’s just a minor concern for me.
So is “Jeter needs to move of SS” the thing we argue about when there is nothing else to argue about?
“That’s why we have A-Rod, Tex, Posada and Matsui to do the heavy lifting. We can afford to carry Gardner if those guys perform up to normal standards.”
I think Girardi wouldn’t have at least two — maybe 3 of those names if he were in control of personnel decisions.
“Like Pete said, this isn’t a big deal since Pena will be shipped out once A-Rod returns. I personally like the move. It’s about time that the Yankees had some guys on the team who weren’t close to getting their AARP cards.”
I might agree with you if Pena had hit .300 in AAA last year. But does Pena really deserve this kind of promotion at this point in his career? I don’t think he deserves to make 400K at 23 for being a good glove-no hit AA player, do you? I’m not a fan of Berroa, but should Pena be sitting on the bench or playing SS in AAA to start 2009?
Laura – Just call me “Missy”
Nah, I think we are at least a year away from that. Jeter isn’t embarrassing himself out there. When his performance starts costing us runs/wins, that’s when I’ll worry. Right now, it’s just a minor concern for me.
__
Isn’t using “embarrassment” as the test setting the bar a little low? The Yankees have allowed him to play SS since 2004 even though they had a better defensive SS on the roster in A-Rod. If winning is the most important thing, that’s crazy.
Since 2005, Jeter has cost the team anywhere from 6.5 to 18 runs per year compared to a league average SS using UZR/150. Why is that acceptable?
If we need roster spots this season, we’ll cross that bridge when we get there. I doubt Cashman is on the phone with GMs the day before opening day trying to consummate a 5-player deal just to clear 40 man spots.
You can’t predict or game plan for injuries.
Laura and Jeter in LF-Yesterday Jeter looked bad but not for reasons that some stats even support. He had some throwing problems, something EVERYBODY agrees is an aberration. And JILF, you say stats don’t back it up, but it depends on the stats. The River Ave. Blues blog did an thread where they talked about how certain stats stick Jeet in the top five and some in the bottom five, meaning we’re back where we started. I look at Jeet as a formerly great defender who’s now only good. Yesterday was an aberration, most of the time he looks fine out at short to me.
teixeiramvp – Once again, I still think Jeet plays good defense.
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I certainly don’t mean this as an insult, but why do you still think he plays good defense? You could see the difference in agility and range on the first play Pena made ranging to his left.
It would be interesting to see Girardi pull Jeter late for Pena. Jeter’s MO has always been “team first,” but that would truly be put to the test here (same as if he were ever asked to switch positions). Won’t happen, but would be interesting.
It’s too early to be kicking Jeter to the curb.
However, I will admit the wisdom of giving Jeter a rest in blowouts.
m-Exactly.
“Why is that acceptable?”
Because the value of any player isn’t simply his defense or offense it’s both.
Offense, defense and baserunning Jeter was a 3.7 WAR shortstop last year.
Offense, defense, and baserunning JJ Hardy was a 3.7 WAR shortstop last year.
At 3.7 WAR Jeter was tied for being the 5th most valuable shortstop in baseball.
Unless you can get Hanley, Jimmy Rollins, Jose Reyes, Mike Aviles (and Troy Tulowitski who was hurt all last year…) your not going to find a much better shortstop than Jeter.
There is zero chance Jeter would be the 5th most valuable LF in baseball.
As such his greatest value to the yankees for this season is as a SS – despite his marginal defense(and who really cares about the great 2010 dilemma the day before opening day 2009…)
And that was a year in which he slumped dramatically and couldn’t hit for any power for a couple of months after Daniel Cabrera hit him in the hand.
This Jeter defense issue has gotten blown completely out of proportion.
“Isn’t using “embarrassment” as the test setting the bar a little low? The Yankees have allowed him to play SS since 2004 even though they had a better defensive SS on the roster in A-Rod. If winning is the most important thing, that’s crazy.”
You can’t use the “A-Rod was a better SS” defense. Like it or not, Jeter is the face of this franchise. There was no way in hell they were going to ask him to move so that A-Rod could play SS. That would have been a PR nightmare.
I guess I don’t think Jeter is playing as poorly as the stats say. I will admit that he’s not as good as he used to be, but then again – who is?
CB-I agree with just about everything you’ve said.
Laura-Exactly, too.
Teixeiramvp, you are very agreeable today.
Teixeiramvp
April 4th, 2009 at 6:18 pm
Laura and Jeter in LF-Yesterday Jeter looked bad but not for reasons that some stats even support. He had some throwing problems, something EVERYBODY agrees is an aberration. And JILF, you say stats don’t back it up, but it depends on the stats. The River Ave. Blues blog did an thread where they talked about how certain stats stick Jeet in the top five and some in the bottom five, meaning we’re back where we started. I look at Jeet as a formerly great defender who’s now only good. Yesterday was an aberration, most of the time he looks fine out at short to me.
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Jeter’s throwing is no aberration. It borders on bad a lot, especialy when he has time. That sidearmed flip on routine plays ends up sailing or sinking way too often. Teixeira will save him more than a few errors this year. If he has to hurry his throws (from the hole), the throws are usually dead on target.
Jeter in LF – you make the same darn point every day — so now you’re dug in. Much like a few of the beat writers who wish Derek would call it quits sooner rather than later, you actually have to root for Jeter to fail. Then you’re right. Then you’re a genius. But for now, it’s pretty tiring and a bit depressing to see your name in a light blue box. You are a big bummer.
GreenBeret7-Come on, you’re really nitpicking. You’re going to try and convince me that Jeter throws the ball away? Please.
Not trying to sound angry, I’m just skeptical of that comment.
Hmmm,
Is that you? Long time, no see.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....oop/1.html
Lots of Yankee nuggets. Pay attention to the one about Xavier Nady.
Jeter was never a “great” SS — couldn’t go to his left very well. But I don’t think the OF is his destiny either. SSs like Jeter shift to 2nd as they age. I can’t see Jeter loading up for a throw from the outfield after slinging the ball from short all these years. He’s an infielder. I think Cano’s future with the Yankees could be affected by Jeter’s future with the Yankees.
“If he has to hurry his throws (from the hole), the throws are usually dead on target.”
So the solution is to have the opposing team only have their speedy runners hit the ball to SS. Gotcha!
Laura – Just call me “Missy”
April 4th, 2009 at 6:31 pm
“If he has to hurry his throws (from the hole), the throws are usually dead on target.”
So the solution is to have the opposing team only have their speedy runners hit the ball to SS. Gotcha!
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Just about. Look at last night. Two bad throws on the same type of play. He had all the time in the world on those. I’d venture to say that 2/3rds to 3/4ths of his errors are throws. Teixeira saved him one time, but, couldn’t the other time. It’s something the staff and Jeter should have fixed years ago. His range was never great, but, it’s the throws that are his weakness, as much as pop-ups are Rodriguez’ weakness.
Teixeiramvp
April 4th, 2009 at 6:30 pm
GreenBeret7-Come on, you’re really nitpicking. You’re going to try and convince me that Jeter throws the ball away? Please.
Not trying to sound angry, I’m just skeptical of that comment.
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That’s hardly nitpicking. That’s fact.
It’s not “fact”. I’ve never seen Jeter make throws like that before this game so close together. Normally, like all errors, they were few an far between.
Don’t get so worked up about a couple of bad plays!
And for that matter, I know A-Rod has pop-up trouble, but I’ve rarely if ever seen him actually drop the ball.
GB, if you had to move Jeter, where would you move him? Some say 2B. I’d go outfield.
Read some of the scouting reports on ramiro Pena and you’ll realizw why the Yankees have decided to keep him.
Baseball America, for one, tabbed him the best defensive infielder in the Yankees’ organization and in the entire Eastern League.
One NL scout called him the best looking shortstop he has seen in a few years.
This guy has always shown a great glove, outstanding range and a strong arm – ever since being drafted in 2005 out of the Mexican League. The question has always been whether he can/will hit.
He is 23 and still has room to grow. Pena is eons above Berroa defensively. He was placed on the 40-man for a reason. and if he fails, there are 3-4 pitchers currently on the 40-man who are quite expendable if a roster spot is needed..
“And for that matter, I know A-Rod has pop-up trouble, but I’ve rarely if ever seen him actually drop the ball.”
Not recently, but two years ago in a game against BAL, he dropped one. Jeter shot him a look that I’ll never forget. I doubt if A-Rod has forgetton it either. That’s probably why he hasn’t dropped one recently. Heeheehee!
I don’t think Jeter is kaput yet; but he did have more trouble finding the handle — and making true throws — last year. I watched every game and it was apparent. Maybe an off year, but it looked to me to be classic age-related defensive decline. He reminds of how Robin Ventura started to lose it at 3rd — very similar.
“I haven’t seen enough of him but I’ll go on GB7’s report that Pena isn’t yet a stellar defensive replacement at this point.”
Yeah, that’s really smart. Go with the opinion of some guy posting on a message board over actual paid baseball scouts who have been calling Pena a “defensive wiz” the past few years.
Guys who this year watched him in Spring training a raved about is defense. Scouts don’t care about errors in spring training games like stupid fans do. They watch for range, positioning, hands, arm, and quickness. And Ramiro Pena’s defensive skills are among the best in baseball at any level. That’s why the Yanks signed out of Mexico. Will his bat reach the level of his defense? Who knows, but according to most Yankee fans Ozzie Smith could never have played SS for us because of his poor hitting.
Anybody with half a brain saw the gold glove level fielder Pena is in spring training. Why don’t you watch and judge for yourself?
Laura-So all we need to do is have someone, say Cano, shoot Jeter a nasty look every time he makes an error?
“I don’t think Jeter is kaput yet;”
True. And again, I think that people are jumping the gun with the “what are we going to do with Jeter” sentiment. I think that this is a bridge we’ll have to cross when his contract comes up for renewal. People are worrying about it now because…well, that’s what Yankee fans do. We look for something to worry about.
“Laura-So all we need to do is have someone, say Cano, shoot Jeter a nasty look every time he makes an error?”
Yes, but not Cano. Maybe Tex or Posada. Cano is on shaky ground himself. He’s in no position to be shooting Derek dirty looks.
Laura-You seem to be looking at this very level-headedly. It is true; we do have a year left, and ever since ‘04 we Yankee fans have been eternally paranoid so as to avoid another great disappointment!
Pena’s hitting isn’t going to improve by sitting on the big club’s bench for a month while occasionally coming in for an inning of defense in blow outs that may not happen — or pinch running. I’d rather have Berroa’s experience — which will certainly allow him to handle a bench role better than a kid from AA.
Laura-Not Posada. Like Cano, he’s on shaky defensive ground. How about Tex?
“It is true; we do have a year left, and ever since ‘04 we Yankee fans have been eternally paranoid so as to avoid another great disappointment!”
Please don’t mention ‘04. It will make me break out in hives.
“Laura-Not Posada. Like Cano, he’s on shaky defensive ground. How about Tex?”
Ok. Somebody call Tex and tell him to shoot Jeter dirty looks every time he throws him a crappy ball.
Laura – Just call me “Missy”
April 4th, 2009 at 6:44 pm
GB, if you had to move Jeter, where would you move him? Some say 2B. I’d go outfield.
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If Jeter had to be moved, 2nd base isn’t the place for him. It would do nothing to increase his range and then you end up displacing a guy who could be a top fielding 2nd baseman within the next 2 years. There’s nobody that ranges that far and makes dead-on throws like Cano does. The Cubs and A’s had a guy with that sort of arm….Manny Trillo. Rough his first 3 years and spectacular for the rest of his career. People forget that Cano played as much shortstop in the minors than he did 2nd base until 2003.
Corner outfield would probably be his spot. His long throws when going out to make cutoffs are always dead-on and strong. Nobody tracks flies better.
In a couple of years, if Jeter has a really significant drop in fielding, than I could see moving him to the OF.
Girardi on his YES show:
Jeter leading off has nothing to do with him hitting into 15 first inning DPs the last 2 years. It’s all about splitting up the lefties.
If Alex doesn’t get to Tampa to see them by the 13th, he hopes they could see him in NY on the 16th for the opener.
The food room is his favorite part of the stadium and he looks foward to putting on floaties and trying out the little “pool” sometime.
He loves the inclusive nature of CC, AJ, Swish and Tex.
Joe doesn’t know what Twitter is and doesn’t understand why anyone would do it. Didn’t know CC and Swisher were “tweeters” but said it won’t be happening in game but what they do on their own time is their business.
Melancon, Hughes, Aceves and A-Jax are the 4 players Girardi thinks could help the team this year.
Pete, you dared to criticize God Bless America and now you suggest Jeter be replaced in the late innings by someone who never played in AAA? You clearly are a Pagan and don’t deserve to belong in the presence of a true yankee, like The Captain.
If I could burn your blog I would- stupid internet- can’t even have a good ol’ xenophobic book burning anymore….
LathamJoe
April 4th, 2009 at 6:45 pm
Read some of the scouting reports on ramiro Pena and you’ll realizw why the Yankees have decided to keep him.
Baseball America, for one, tabbed him the best defensive infielder in the Yankees’ organization and in the entire Eastern League.
One NL scout called him the best looking shortstop he has seen in a few years.
This guy has always shown a great glove, outstanding range and a strong arm – ever since being drafted in 2005 out of the Mexican League. The question has always been whether he can/will hit.
He is 23 and still has room to grow. Pena is eons above Berroa defensively. He was placed on the 40-man for a reason. and if he fails, there are 3-4 pitchers currently on the 40-man who are quite expendable if a roster spot is needed..
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Saying Pena is the best defensive infielder in the Yankee ststem doesn’t mean much when you look at the defensive numbers of said players. anywhere from 22 to 42 errors…and that’s for their top talents.
“Corner outfield would probably be his spot. His long throws when going out to make cutoffs are always dead-on and strong. Nobody tracks flies better.”
Yep. Ever see Jeter go for a ball that’s over his head? Corner outfield would not be a problem for him.
So let’s play Devil’s advocate here and say that the brass decide that Jeter has to move next year. They don’t resign Damon and move Jeter to LF. Could work. But who gets SS? You think PHI would mind parting with Rollings? LOL!
Laura-I guess it would be Pena, by default.
“People forget that Cano played as much shortstop in the minors than he did 2nd base until 2003.”
I didn’t forget — and they didn’t move him because of Jeter. They moved him around because he wasn’t a good SS. He has an arm and soft hands — no range to his left. The combo of Giambi and Cano last year resulted in more 57 hoppers squirting through the 2nd base hole than I’ve ever seen watching games.
“Corner outfield would probably be his spot. His long throws when going out to make cutoffs are always dead-on and strong. Nobody tracks flies better.”
Relays aren’t the same as charging and loading up for a throw. Jeter has touch — but not a strong arm. And pop flies are not like hooking long drives in the gaps. Mattingly made true relay throws and was great on pop ups — but he was atrocious tracking a deep drive off the bat while playing the outfield. It’s not the same.
” Jeter has touch—but not a strong arm.”
If Johnny Damon can play LF, so can Jeter.
“It will be very interesting to see whether the manager will use Pena for defensive purposes at shortstop late in games.”- Your being sarcastic, right?????
Laura – Just call me “Missy”
April 4th, 2009 at 7:02 pm
“Corner outfield would probably be his spot. His long throws when going out to make cutoffs are always dead-on and strong. Nobody tracks flies better.”
Yep. Ever see Jeter go for a ball that’s over his head? Corner outfield would not be a problem for him.
So let’s play Devil’s advocate here and say that the brass decide that Jeter has to move next year. They don’t resign Damon and move Jeter to LF. Could work. But who gets SS? You think PHI would mind parting with Rollings? LOL!
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No way does Jeter switch positions before this contract is up, and, I’m not sure they’ll move him unless he brings it up. I think the one personal goal he has is to be the first shortstop in history to collect 3,000 hits as a shortstop only.
I’d never say never, but, you’ll never see Rollins at short for the yanks. That’s why I mentioned wanting to see Yuniesky Betancourt from Seattle playing there, though he’d be 29 in two years. Solid hitter, would hit for more power away from that airport. Defense is fine, just careless.
Good move and good for Pena. If Joe G does sub Pena for DJ for late game D I will be very impressed. It’s about time someone considered the good of all 25 guys not just 1 player’s ego or status.
“If Johnny Damon can play LF, so can Jeter.”
He only plays the outfield because of legs. He outruns the ball like Gardner. But if we judged them only on their shot-put arms, both would be DHs. Jeter would be switching positions — in his mid 30s — equipped with a Damon-like arm? Not a prescription for success IMO.
Agreed, GB7, there are not many excellent position player prospects in the Yankee MiLB organization, but this kid has defensive talent, just watch him play and listen to the scouting reports. Defensive talent is needed for utlity/late inning infield duty -Berroa just doesn’t have it. Wiser men than us (hopefully) are making roster decisions for the Yankees and they chose to keep Pena. Perhaps if someone better becomes available after midnight Sunday, Cashman will send Pena down and add a veteran infielder.
dave-Gardner’s arm so far has been better than advertised.
LathamJoe
April 4th, 2009 at 7:22 pm
Agreed, GB7, there are not many excellent position player prospects in the Yankee MiLB organization, but this kid has defensive talent, just watch him play and listen to the scouting reports. Defensive talent is needed for utlity/late inning infield duty -Berroa just doesn’t have it. Wiser men than us (hopefully) are making roster decisions for the Yankees and they chose to keep Pena. Perhaps if someone better becomes available after midnight Sunday, Cashman will send Pena down and add a veteran infielder.
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There are plenty of excellent position players, but, right now, it’s their bats, and that’s the organization’s fault because there aren’t enough full time coaches at the lower levels to teach base running and defense, in particular. Pena is too erratic and careless on the easy plays, especially with runners on base. That’s the same issues that most of the young infielders in the system has. If he bombs, NYY will be wasting another man from the 40 man roster to replace him. That’s two spots instead of three.
“Gardner’s arm so far has been better than advertised.”
Yeah, I saw him make two decent throws in this Spring; but his legs get him to the ball more quickly than others. If you watched the throws, it’s not his arm strength. And I fully expect every team to run on his arm — which they clearly did in the Spring — and last year — as well.
Since there is Jeter talk:
“As Derek Jeter enters his 14th opener, questions swirl around Yankee captain”
http://tinyurl.com/NYDailyNewsArticle
Pena adds a great glove and good speed to the bench.
Correction: That’s two spots instead of ***one***
Regarding other options:
I would’ve signed Mike Lamb to play 3rd full-time or to platoon with Ransom. They would have enough coverage with those two — without needing Pena or Berroa.
dave-His arm strength isn’t great, just avg., but he throws an accurate ball. I hope people try to run on him, because he could definitely throw them out! Yesterday he threw a guy out at home, the ump made a bad call.
Gardner had a few assist last year. Apparently some have forgotten.
“Yesterday he threw a guy out at home, the ump made a bad call.”
Yeah, I was counting that as one of the two I saw. But if it had been a regular season game — and Cabrera was in center — the 3rd base coach would’ve have held up the STOP sign to that runner. Gardner has eternal greenlight basestealing speed — but I think Cabrera is better in every other respect.
“Gardner had a few assist last year. Apparently some have forgotten.”
I didn’t forget; Melky had a high number when he first came up too. But that means they’re running on you. The best outfielders have less because no one dares to test them.
dave-Melky was doing pretty bad last year. I want to give Gardner a shot. I think he could definitely be a beter hitter than Melky, eventually even a 300 hitter with an over 400 OBP.
Eventually.
Also, that means people are running on him, good! He must be getting them out often if he has a lot of assists!
“I think he could definitely be a beter hitter than Melky”
I’ll respectfully disagree with you. People forget that Melky is 2 years younger than Gardner. Melky was hitting .280 in the majors while Gardner was struggling to master AA at the same age. And compare their AAA numbers — especially the strikeouts. I think Gardner needed to do more to strip Melky of his job last year. Apparently there’s some attitude issues as well, but it’s hard for us to evaluate those things from where we sit. I just hope Girardi isn’t giving Gardner the job only because he likes a guy who gets his uniform dirty. We’ll see.
Hmmm
Jeter in LF – you make the same darn point every day—so now you’re dug in. Much like a few of the beat writers who wish Derek would call it quits sooner rather than later, you actually have to root for Jeter to fail. Then you’re right. Then you’re a genius. But for now, it’s pretty tiring and a bit depressing to see your name in a light blue box. You are a big bummer.
__
Dude,
I don’t root for Jeter to fail, and for you to make that point shows how shallow your ability to argue a point really is.
I deal in facts. Apparently, you deal in feelings.
I root for Jeter and every player on the Yankees to succeed every time they are up at the plate or get a chance in the field. But unlike you, I then make a realistic assessment of what I see.
The idea that you think that I want to look like a genius demonstrates the fallacy of your reasoning. That Jeter is not a good defensive SS is obvious. Pointing that out is merely evidence of a grasp of reality.
People who are in deep denial are the biggest bummer going because they engage in ad hominem attacks rather than reasoned debate.
NOTHING is more tiring than that.
dave-Hey, fair opinion dude. I still like Gardner. We know he’s clutch at least-2 walk-off hits in half a season! Jeter in LF-While I do disagree with you, I’m on your side on that one. You’re allowed to give your opinion, but I know you’re not rooting for Jeter to fail.
CB
Because the value of any player isn’t simply his defense or offense it’s both.
Offense, defense and baserunning Jeter was a 3.7 WAR shortstop last year.
Offense, defense, and baserunning JJ Hardy was a 3.7 WAR shortstop last year.
At 3.7 WAR Jeter was tied for being the 5th most valuable shortstop in baseball.
Unless you can get Hanley, Jimmy Rollins, Jose Reyes, Mike Aviles (and Troy Tulowitski who was hurt all last year…) your not going to find a much better shortstop than Jeter.
There is zero chance Jeter would be the 5th most valuable LF in baseball.
As such his greatest value to the yankees for this season is as a SS – despite his marginal defense(and who really cares about the great 2010 dilemma the day before opening day 2009…)
And that was a year in which he slumped dramatically and couldn’t hit for any power for a couple of months after Daniel Cabrera hit him in the hand.
This Jeter defense issue has gotten blown completely out of proportion.
__
That depends the source.
According to Baseball Projection.com, Jeter was 2.7 WAR last, and that was in Jeter’s best defensive season in years.
Now granted, Jeter had a hand injury last season, which probably impacted his offense (102 OPS+), but if Jeter can return to being a 120 OPS+ player, and play the OF with the ability he has shown to track flyballs as an INFer, there is no reason that he can’t be a very productive both offensively and defensively, if in fact his 2008 offensive output was an anomaly.
More importantly, WAR (as are most stats) is insensitive to the importance of getting to (or failing to get to) balls at critical junctures in a game. So to claim that one can merely look at his WAR rank and make a definitive assessment of his (or any player’s) true value is to leave out a lot of important data.
At a time when Cash is trying to (re)build this team around pitching and defense, it is a glaring weakness that needs to be addressed if the Yankees’ pitchers are going to have their best chance to succeed.
“If Johnny Damon can play LF, so can Jeter.”
Damon has been an OF his entire career. You want to move a 34 year old SS and his 102 OPS+ to a corner OF position, really?
Only one player can make the Yanks move Jeter to the LF. That’s Honus Wagner.
I don’t think they are really thinking about Pena as the utility guy over Ransom when A-Rod comes back. To me, keeping Pena over Berroa is a strong vote of confidence in Ransom being able to hold down 3B for the next month or so. If you were worried that you might have to replace him if he isn’t hitting in a couple of weeks, it would have made more sense to keep Berroa. If you feel comfortable with Ransom’s bat at 3B, Pena has more value as a defensive sub and pinch runner. As CB has argued, I don’t think its necessarily enough to justify adding him permanently to the 40 man roster now but he probably does add more to the bench than Berroa.
I’m sure that they’ve thought this through so it also probably means they feel very comfortable with Posada’s ability to catch and aren’t thinking they might have to add Cash or Stewart to the 40 man. That’s probably a good sign but like CB I hope it doesn’t backfire and cause unnecessarily shuffling to open up a 40 man spot in the first half of the year.
It seems to me that Juan Miranda is a trade candidate. He’s a wasted spot on the 40 man given how he’s blocked by both Tex and Swisher at 1B and by many at DH. I’d imagine that they are hoping he can up his trade value by hitting lefties for awhile but I’d assume that he might be the one to go when they need to open a spot.
This move though is not only bad news for Berroa, its bad news for Tomko. Its hard to picture a scenario now where they’d want to bring him up badly enough to create a spot on the 40 man for him before his May out.
I think it was a very classy move by the Yankees to give the kid a chance to be a part of this team for a while and starting his arbitration clock. I don’t think any other franchise would have done that. If he ever become a decent major league player that could be worth a lot of money to him.
Diony
Damon has been an OF his entire career. You want to move a 34 year old SS and his 102 OPS+ to a corner OF position, really?
Only one player can make the Yanks move Jeter to the LF. That’s Honus Wagner.
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You think that Jeter will now a 102 OPS+ hitter for the rest of his career because of one season? Really?If so, he can’t play SS for the Yankees either. I think he was affected by the Cabrera HBP in May, and should bounce back at least to the mid-110s.
Robin Yount moved from SS to the OF at 29. As Torre often said when he counseled against a move of Bernie to 1B, it’s much easier to move from the infield to the outfield than than the other way around.
Jeter still has decent speed and is great at tracking flyballs. What he lacks is lateral quickness, which is why is range at SS isn’t very good. So he still has the skills to play the OF.
Honus Wagner? Get real.It’s not about ability, otherwise A-Rod would have been the SS since 2004. It’s about sensibilities, and by the end of 2010 at the very latest that has to change, if winning is the most important thing.
Hi Pete,
In all honesty, why even throw out the line about Ramiro Pena subbing for Jeter in late-game situations? Is that in an effort to drive readership/comments? It seems like a pretty popular play amongst the media these days. You of all people should understand what such a move would mean. Throw out UZR ratings and the like. Some things quantitative do not measure to the qualitative.
Forgive me if I’m missing something, but Derek Jeter and his range are not the reasons this team hasn’t won a World Series in eight years.