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Breaking down a breakdown

Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Podcast on Apr 12, 2009 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

For starters, I can’t fault Joe Girardi for not using Mariano Rivera in the 8th inning. Mo is a 39-year-old coming off shoulder surgery and did not throw more than one inning all spring training. Oh, and it was raining and 40 degrees. Part of a manager’s job is making sure his players stay healthy.

Beyond that, it was set up perfectly:

• Bruney faced Bloomquist, Crisp and Aviles in the seventh. That left Marte for three lefties in a row: DeJesus, Teahen and Jacobs.

DeJesus and Teahen went down, then KC pinch hit Butler, a right-handed hitter who murders lefties (.956 career OPS). So Girardi went to a RHP in Veras.

This is where the game was lost. Jose Veras cannot walk Butler on five pitches. He just can’t. But he did. This is why I think in a few months it’ll be Mark Melancon or Dave Robertson in that spot.

• Then Phil Coke came in, was all over the place and they lost. The one thing you can question Girardi on, I think, is bringing in Coke to face Brayan Pena. I mean, it’s Brayan Pena.

Is turning him around really that big of a deal? Pena came to the plate 0 for 4 this season. In his career he is .222/.232/.296 against RHP and .234/.280/.340 against LHPs. I think you can leave Veras in. Veras has much more experience than Coke.

It’s the technically correct move to use Coke. If you have the lefty, you might as well use him. But I think sometimes the Yankees get a little carried away with matchups.

Here’s Joe Girardi talking about it:

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All that said, bad loss. Joba pitched well and they got nothing for it.

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360 Responses to “Breaking down a breakdown”

  1. Thomas A. Anderson April 12th, 2009 at 6:07 pm

    But for the chorus of Joba to the pen pontificating that will resound across NY sports talk radio tomorrow, I’m gonna do what the players always say and ignore the local media.

    Hate to lose a game like this. When you are in a division where 3 teams will win 90 games in likelihood, you can’t afford to give away any games.

    Every loss is the same, but every win in April and May is one less you need in August and September to cross the finish line ahead.

  2. S.A.--It's a marathon, not a sprint April 12th, 2009 at 6:10 pm

    Hughes pitched today:

    http://community.thetimes-trib.....npigs.aspx

  3. raymagnetic April 12th, 2009 at 6:12 pm

    Don’t think It’ll ever be Robertson in the 8th, he walks a ton of batters as well.

    By the way Edwar is a better pitcher than Robertson and for some illogical reason he’s looked at in a better light than Edwar.

    Why didn’t Edwar pitch today anyway :???: He hasn’t pitched in days and Veras pitched yesterday.

  4. El Guapo April 12th, 2009 at 6:13 pm

    Typical case of Girardi overmanagement. I completely agree with Peter. Just leave Veras in. It is in these situations where managing by the numbers kills a team, and that is what Girardi tends to do a bit too often

  5. cano he didnt April 12th, 2009 at 6:16 pm

    yeah as this game was happening i was arguing joba should be a starter w. my grandfather… he seemed pleased with his arguement after watching the 8th, and not watching how joba gave up the 3 runs..

  6. anthony April 12th, 2009 at 6:16 pm

    i dont think edwar is better than robertson call me crazy but i just dont see it… Girardi overmanaged and should of left Marte in the game.. case closed.

  7. feefoo April 12th, 2009 at 6:17 pm

    IT’S A LONG SEASON GUYS CALM DOWN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  8. Mike A, April 12th, 2009 at 6:17 pm

    “Typical case of Girardi overmanagement. I completely agree with Peter. Just leave Veras in.”

    I assume you mean just leave Marte in. He was pitching just fine, and there’s no reason he couldn’t pitch to Butler.

  9. yankee fan in tampa April 12th, 2009 at 6:19 pm

    the lesson is “coke is bad for us”

  10. Whatever April 12th, 2009 at 6:20 pm

    a) Leave Joba in to pitch the 7th and maybe we don’t have this collosal problem. He threw 88 pitches through 6 and was still strong.

    b) Bruney was overpowering today. Let’s see if he can do that in the 8th inning regularly. We still need an answer in the set-up role (unless you like 8th innings like today’s) and he’s the only one who looks remotely capable of filling the bill.

    c) Damaso Marte might be a coke-artist, but the evidence so far says he’s a safer bet against righties than Phil Coke.

  11. raymagnetic April 12th, 2009 at 6:21 pm

    Anthony,

    Compare Edwar’s numbers to Robertson’s last year. Edwar’s numbrs were better across the board.

    Edwar had a lower WHIP, more K’s per nine, bettr OPS against etc. Edwar is a very good middle reliever based on his numbers not just what I see.

  12. Whatever April 12th, 2009 at 6:22 pm

    “Choke artist,” not coke artist. That was the 80′s.

  13. Betsy April 12th, 2009 at 6:24 pm

    The pen just had a bad day. There is a huge difference between being being a bad pitcher and being bad for a day. People were already giving up on the game much earlier and we ended up taking the lead. Let’s just give up on the season now to save ourselves some grief and aggravation. Again, the Rays lost to the O’s 6-0 yesterday. Does that mean they are going to wet the bed this season? It’s one game.

    Thomas Anderson, you’re right, but on the other hand you can’t just let a loss eat you up inside. It’s aggravating – this would have been a great win – but every team has these kinds of losses. There’s nothing to do but move on, like the Yankees have. I think we need to give a little credit to the players and not assume they are so emotionally fragile that the will let one loss bother them. If they lose tomorrow, it will be because the Rays are very good,, not because the Yankees are all of a sudden going into a tailspin. Too many people are now going into overdrive with their negativity – OMG, how are we going to beat the Rays, the Sox? Last I checked, those teams weren’t undefeated either. This is a much better Yankee team than last year -we’ll be fine.

    I will be ignoring the sports media tomorrow when they start writing about Joba to the pen – that’s all

  14. Jacob X April 12th, 2009 at 6:25 pm

    Yes… because Veras has proven himself to be very trustworthy.

    Girardi made the right moves, it just didn’t work out. That’s wat happens when you have no 8th inning guy. you have to play these stupid matchup games and you have to try and find a hot hand, when there might not be one.

    Melancon can’t arrive here soon enough.

  15. sill April 12th, 2009 at 6:25 pm

    Tomorrow is almost as close to a must win as possible. You have to win 2 out of 3 in tampa bay to get back on track and get out of last place, that they are in right now (if red sox win)

  16. Pel April 12th, 2009 at 6:28 pm

    >Girardi made the right moves, it just didn’t work out.

  17. YankeeJosh April 12th, 2009 at 6:30 pm

    I didn’t have a huge problem with Girardi’s bullpen management. He did the best he could with the players he had. I would have liked to have seen Joba left in for the 7th, and that would have left Bruney instead of Veras for the 8th had Joba gotten through it. Taking Joba out with 88 pitches is a waste imo.

    My biggest problem with Girardi however is what he did in the 7th inning. Tie game 3-3 with runners at first and third and he doesn’t pinch hit for Melky Cabrera. Cabrera got the run home but killed any chance for an extended rally with the DP. That’s a tailor made spot to put in Johnny Damon and Girardi didn’t, and it was a big mistake imo.

  18. GreenBeret7 April 12th, 2009 at 6:30 pm

    randy l.
    April 12th, 2009 at 6:19 pm
    gb7-

    what’s you take on the team? despite my dislike of cashman, i’m liking what i’m seeing so far.the rotation is healthy, teixeira is better than i thought, and swisher is a nice addition.
    cano has snapped put of his funk. posada can throw and hit.

    i especially like seeing a good starter going out there every day. if they can avoid injuries this team is looking pretty good.
    ——————————————————————————————
    If there was one move left to make during the off-season, it was wanting Cashman to go after John Buck when KC was trying to unload the contract. He’s not a great hitter, but, he’s got power and he’s a good receiver…..good at blocking the plate and the ball….strong arm that Tony Pena could help in making the release a little quicker. Other than that, not much to do once Rodriguez and Teixeira return to the lineup. I still like the bullpen, though. If they’re committed to Gardner, nothing you can do, but, I like Skip Schumaker in St. Louis to play center and either hit 9th or lead off.

  19. yankee fan in tampa April 12th, 2009 at 6:33 pm

    marte should better able to go the full 8th for 3 and a half million a year.IS HE NOW RON VILLONE?It was butler not manny.

  20. Giuseppe Franco April 12th, 2009 at 6:33 pm

    GF, I do think you’re being hard on Phil. He’s not a scrub pitcher -he had obvious injury issues last year. I agree with your main point because Phil is just not ready, but I would expect to see him up here at some point this year and I would expect him to do pretty well.

    ——–

    Betsy,

    I’m not being hard on Hughes. But Joba clearly has more upside and has shown he can get major league hitters out.

    Hughes hasn’t done that yet.

    Besides, people here keep talking about promoting Hughes to be their #5 starter when he still has plenty to learn to progress his game at the minor league level.

    And what people have also overlooked is that he missed the majority of not only the 2007 season but the 2008 season as well.

    I’m a big fan of Phil Hughes. I really am. I think he’s going to be a very good pitcher for this club for many years.

    But he’s not ready yet. Simply staying healthy and working on his secondary pitches will do him wonders to progress his overall game this year and prepare him to take that #5 starter role next season.

    I don’t have a problem with giving Hughes a starting job next season. I just don’t think he’s ready yet and for people to rely on him at the drop of a hat obviously didn’t pay attention to not only his ineffectiveness in 2008 but his lack of durability the last two years.

    Think of it this way, if Joba was moved into the bullpen after preparing as a starter for three months and Hughes comes up and doesn’t perform for one reason or another or injures himself again – what do you do then?

    Joba CANNOT be moved back to the rotation again. You can’t keep moving him back and forth because you’re putting his health at major risk.

    Then your fifth starter is either a shaky Kennedy or Aceves and the team has just given up their biggest advantage over virtually every team in baseball – their dynamite rotation.

    All of this because the pen blew a game in April? Sounds like a really stupid plan.

    Hughes will get his opportunities this season. Nobody is going to make every start this season. He just needs to continue to progress his game and stay healthy.

  21. GreenBeret7 April 12th, 2009 at 6:33 pm

    Shiels is coming apart at the seams. 3 walks to open the top of the 8th inning in a 1 run game.

  22. GreenBeret7 April 12th, 2009 at 6:34 pm

    ***Shields*** is coming apart at the seams

  23. YankeeJosh April 12th, 2009 at 6:36 pm

    Marte is not just a left specialist. He was closing for the Pirates last year and could be an 8th inning set-up guy sharing the role with Bruney. I don’t trust Veras, and Coke was disappointing today. Very frustrating loss. Yanks had a real chance to steal a game and just couldn’t get the job done.

    I know the games against Tampa are big, but why rest Damon today, with Teixeira and Jorge both out of the game? Why not give him a day off on the turf in Tampa?

    Although Swisher has been a spark plug, and I really like him, it’s striking to see not just the offensive difference but the deffensive difference between he and Teixeira at First. Makes me even more glad we signed Teixeira.

  24. DYNASTY IS DESTINY! April 12th, 2009 at 6:36 pm

    I didn’t realize it was 40 degrees there–it was that cold?
    Perhaps not going to Mo was wise then…

  25. GreenBeret7 April 12th, 2009 at 6:36 pm

    and Shields escapes damnation.

  26. GreenBeret7 April 12th, 2009 at 6:39 pm

    YankeeJosh
    April 12th, 2009 at 6:36 pm
    Marte is not just a left specialist. He was closing for the Pirates last year and could be an 8th inning set-up guy sharing the role with Bruney. I don’t trust Veras, and Coke was disappointing today. Very frustrating loss. Yanks had a real chance to steal a game and just couldn’t get the job done.

    I know the games against Tampa are big, ***but why rest Damon today, with Teixeira and Jorge both out of the game*** ? Why not give him a day off on the turf in Tampa?

    Although Swisher has been a spark plug, and I really like him, it’s striking to see not just the offensive difference but the deffensive difference between he and Teixeira at First. Makes me even more glad we signed Teixeira.

    ————————————————————

    For starters, it was cold and rainy. Perhaps, though, the bifggest reason was being 0 for his last 24 at bats.

  27. GreenBeret7 April 12th, 2009 at 6:40 pm

    ***against Meche***

  28. Betsy April 12th, 2009 at 6:40 pm

    Hey GF, I completely agree. I apologize if I misinterpreted your comments about Hughes as being negative about his potential. The Yankees are making all the right moves here and keeping Phil in AAA is one of them. Today for instance, he had to battle to get through 5 or so innings – good for him. He’s making up for lost time that he should have had when he was brought up in 2007 and he’s learning to be a more complete pitcher. He’s still a baby at 22 – with all the ups and downs in his career, he’s still so young.

    Joba can not be moved back and forth – totally agreed. The kid pitched a very good game – what more can you ask from your 5th starter? The Yankees have a plan, even if fans and Francesca don’t.

    The pen was shaky today – it happens. Tomorrow, they get to start all over again.

  29. Betsy April 12th, 2009 at 6:42 pm

    YankeeJosh, I’d rather see Damon take off against the Royals than the Rays…….

  30. 86w183 April 12th, 2009 at 6:45 pm

    Pete is absolutely right, you do not ask Mariano for more than an inning this early. However, Marte should have finished the eighth and Veras should not have pitched at all. Veras had pitcvhed in three of the previous four games and threw 22 pitches on Saturday.. WTF?

    Josh makes a great point… why on earth did Damon not hit for Melky in that situation?

    oh well… at least someone is nuts enough to call tomorrow a must win.

  31. Betsy April 12th, 2009 at 6:47 pm

    Good point about Damon – I agree there.

  32. Boston Dave April 12th, 2009 at 6:48 pm

    IMO, there were no obvious mistakes by Girardi. You can play “what if” all day long but it’s senseless.

    The pitchers didn’t execute. That’s what happens sometimes. They were awesome for a couple games and stunk today.

    It’s frustrating to lose this game but save the second guessing for another time. Girardi didn’t lose this game by any means.

  33. Betsy April 12th, 2009 at 6:49 pm

    Does it seem this year as if Joe is reverting to Torre’s ways and overrelying on Coke/Veras/Bruney? When is the last time Alby pitched, or Edwar?

  34. GreenBeret7 April 12th, 2009 at 6:49 pm

    Big game for Jackson in scranton today. 2-4, stolen base, 2 runs scored, RBI, stolen base, but, perhaps better was 2 walks and no strikeouts. Hughes was ok, 3 runs in 6 innings, but 2 homers. 2 walks and 8 strikeouts.

  35. Boston Dave April 12th, 2009 at 6:52 pm

    “That’s wat happens when you have no 8th inning guy. you have to play these stupid matchup games”

    —————–

    the Red Sox and Rays play the “stupid matchup games” too. Sure it’s nice to have a 1-2 punch but it’s not like it’s absolutely necessary.

    Balfour/Wheeler/Howell/… or Masterson/Okajima/Ramirez

    I’d rather have Girardi playing matchups personally. The pitchers need to execute. Play the %’s. Remember, playing the %’s still means that sometimes things won’t work out. That’s why it’s a %.

  36. GreenBeret7 April 12th, 2009 at 6:52 pm

    correction. Hughes had 6 strikeouts.

  37. Boston Dave April 12th, 2009 at 6:53 pm

    GB7,

    that is great news (esp the walks and no K’s)

    thanks for being the resident minor league update go-to-guy also.

  38. Betsy April 12th, 2009 at 6:54 pm

    Keep it up, Jackson – and I still say he stays all year in AAA. Some already elsewhere want him up in case Gardner doesn’t do the job, but the Yankees have got to have a plan with their kids. Jackson will be a better player for his stint in AAA. Phil battled -he walked 2 in the first inning and threw 30 pitches. It’s ok – I like to see that. He struck out 8, so obviously his stuff continues to be good.

  39. Boston Dave April 12th, 2009 at 6:54 pm

    “Does it seem this year as if Joe is reverting to Torre’s ways and overrelying on Coke/Veras/Bruney? When is the last time Alby pitched, or Edwar?”

    ———————

    true – but the starters have been going deeper into games which is great. If we see less of Alby and Edwar, I see it as a good thing. I don’t think Girardi will overwork the top guys. It’s just a case of good starting pitching the last 3-4 games.

  40. Betsy April 12th, 2009 at 6:57 pm

    Good point, BD. Still, they could use some work – it’s sort of why I didn’t necessarily think CC should go 8 yesterday. Some of these guys are going to come out of the pen cold, not having pitched in days, and then when they struggle, people are going to want their heads.

  41. MatsuiSucks April 12th, 2009 at 6:57 pm

    Great job, Girardi. I can’t wait til your inability to manage a bullpen costs us a chance to win it all this year. Get the hell off my team.

  42. EricNS April 12th, 2009 at 6:58 pm

    Boston lost!!!

  43. tampayank April 12th, 2009 at 6:58 pm

    I hope Wang gets back on track tomorrow, I think the Rays have Upton back in the lineup so their lineup will be strengthened for this series. so tommorow what will we see during that lineup card…here’s what I’m hoping:
    Jeter SS
    Damon LF
    Tex 1B
    Matsui DH
    Posada C
    Cano 2B
    Swish RF
    Pena 3B
    Gardner CF

  44. randy l. April 12th, 2009 at 6:58 pm

    “If they’re committed to Gardner, nothing you can do, but, I like Skip Schumaker in St. Louis to play center and either hit 9th or lead off.”

    gb7-
    thanks for the overview of an calm adult poster.i think the yankees can live with center field being a question mark if the starters stay healthy and the good signs on offense continue.

    red sox go down. not a total loss today.

  45. The Ghost April 12th, 2009 at 6:59 pm

    Girardi has been pretty gutless in his tenure as a manager. Sometimes you just have to throw the book away and manage by feel.

  46. 86w183 April 12th, 2009 at 7:00 pm

    Boston Dave—- All due respect but you are dead wrong here. Girardi pulled a well rested veteran reliever for a less experienced guy who had pitched three of four days AND 22 pitches the day before. It was a bad move no matter how it turned out. Leave Marte in… it was Billy Butler for cryin’ out loud.. not Pujols.

    It’s ALWAYS up to the players to execute. By that standard there is no such thing as a good or poor managerial decision.

    I’ve been among Joe G’s most vocal supporters, but the Veras move today was poor bullpen management. And he showed poor lineup management by not pinch hitting for Melky in the 7th.

    By the way has Gardner caught a single ball in CF that any of us couldn’t have gotten to? Just askin’.

  47. Giuseppe Franco April 12th, 2009 at 7:00 pm

    “That’s wat happens when you have no 8th inning guy. you have to play these stupid matchup games”

    ———-

    Yeah, really.

    The Yanks didn’t win three straight rings playing “matchup games” with Stanton, Nelson, and Mendoza.

    I mean, what was Torre thinking back then?

  48. Betsy April 12th, 2009 at 7:01 pm

    LOL at Beckett…………and his Cy Young (that’s for you, Kruk!).

    Angels showed a LOT by winning this game and this series. I don’t like them, but my general feelings about them don’t matter one bit given what they’ve been through. I almost kind of root for them in a way, like I did with the Cardinals after Darryl Kile died.

  49. Boston Dave April 12th, 2009 at 7:01 pm

    Betsy,

    If they called AJax up now, IMO, he’d struggle mightily. From what I’ve seen/heard he still needs to work on plate discipline. It’s very rare that position prospects excel in their first stint in the majors, especially if they’ve played just a week in AAA like AJAx has.

    The knee-jerk Yanks fans who expect immediate results would prob then turn on him and say he should be waived or traded for a dozen bats(see Ian Kennedy).

  50. MatsuiSucks April 12th, 2009 at 7:02 pm

    He’s pretty much been the biggest joke when it comes to managing this bullpen and managing in general. That’s great, Joe. Let’s just let Coke face the whole lineup while were at it. Smart job managing. Great work. That’s two games you’ve cost us now. You can’t even win with the team Cashman got for you this year. It’s pathetic.

  51. Bilbao April 12th, 2009 at 7:02 pm

    My complaint is with Cashman, not Girardi. You give a 3-year $12M contract to a guy who has to be relieved by Jose Veras because Billy Butler is up? Please.

  52. Boston Dave April 12th, 2009 at 7:03 pm

    86w183,

    Butler kills lefties. I don’t see why bringing Veras in is a poor decision.

    I stand behind playing %s. If a guy hits lefties well, you pitch a righty. We can debate which righty should pitch there, but I don’t see it as an obvious mistake by Joe G.

  53. Betsy April 12th, 2009 at 7:04 pm

    Tampayank, I think we won’t be seeing Tex tomorrow and probably not for the rest of the series – unless it’s as a PH.

  54. Boston Dave April 12th, 2009 at 7:06 pm

    86w183,

    If he leaves Marte in, ok with me. But I guess I just don’t see bringing a righty in as an obvious blunder. Butler hits lefties much better.

    If he leaves Marte in and Butler rips a double, the entire blog would be tearing Joe’s head off for leaving him in.

  55. Mike R April 12th, 2009 at 7:08 pm

    Melancon looked good today in AAA.
    1.2 0H 0R 0ER 0BB 4K

  56. Boston Dave April 12th, 2009 at 7:09 pm

    Betsy,

    I’ve always respected the Angels for the way they play the game. Scioscia is a class act, IMO, and is one of the better managers in baseball. I have to root against them for obvious reasons but I was really pulling for them this weekend.

  57. GreenBeret7 April 12th, 2009 at 7:09 pm

    Boston Dave
    April 12th, 2009 at 6:53 pm
    GB7,

    that is great news (esp the walks and no K’s)

    thanks for being the resident minor league update go-to-guy also.

    ————————————————————

    any time, Bad Dave (I assume that’s what gave you the BD name (Boston is just a coverup). There were others, but, these are the guys that are closest to the Yanks, right now. Charleston is still playing. Angelini is having another mixed game. 1-3 with an RBI, but two strikeouts and another error. Lassiter was 3-3 with an error at third base last I looked.

  58. tampayank April 12th, 2009 at 7:09 pm

    that sucks if Tex doesn’t play; more for his defense and he seemed to be getting into an offensive groove; especially w/ A-ROD still out, I can’t wait to see our A lineup night in and out

  59. Betsy April 12th, 2009 at 7:10 pm

    BD, you’re right. AJax is raw – he’s just a kid. He’s hot now and soon enough he will cool off. That’s ok – he’ll learn more in his struggles about how to hit then he will during his hot streaks.

    LOL at fans sometimes. Coke is now getting raked over the coals because he had a bad game. I’ve said consistently that he was being hyped too hard to be the set-up guy based on 16 innings last year and ST – that he was going to have his struggles. Well he has (just like every other pitcher who has ever thrown a pitch in the big leagues) and now we see those same fans saying he stinks. Big league hitters may have adjusted to him and now he’s got to adjust right back. He’s still the same talented pitcher he was before – but I do think Joe is showing a tad too much confidence in him.

    Already some folks want Melancon up here to save the day – guess what? He’s not going to do that. He’s a very talented kid, but it’s hard to pitch at the ML-level. I’m sure he can come in and do a nice job, but I certainly don’t expect him to be a savior.

  60. tampayank April 12th, 2009 at 7:10 pm

    hey Ortiz is batting .200 so far this season so Matsui has some competition for worst DH so far :)

  61. yankee fan in tampa April 12th, 2009 at 7:11 pm

    boston dave,

    your right about ripping him either way.but he should of left marte in or brought in rivera for 4 outs.

  62. Nick in SF April 12th, 2009 at 7:12 pm

    Girardi’s fault?

    Cashman’s fault?

    Think bigger:

    http://tinyurl.com/cmu5n9

  63. GreenBeret7 April 12th, 2009 at 7:12 pm

    If they’re committed to Gardner, nothing you can do, but, I like Skip Schumaker in St. Louis to play center and either hit 9th or lead off.”

    gb7-
    thanks for the overview of an calm adult poster.i think the yankees can live with center field being a question mark if the starters stay healthy and the good signs on offense continue.

    red sox go down. not a total loss today

    ————————————————————

    Not really concerned about Jeter, yet, but, he’s something like 1-18 and 4 strikeouts. That puts a strain on the offense when Matsui and Ransom aren’t hitting, either.

  64. randy l. April 12th, 2009 at 7:15 pm

    the red sox are 2-4. now that’s nice.

    i’m watching espn and nesn going over beckett throwing at abreau after he stepped out and time was called . typical beckett.

    the nesn announcers are saying it was not a cool thing for beckett to do. the macho BS of the red sox isn’t playing the way it used to. beckett’s behavior is especially disturbing because of the adenhart tragedy.

    the yankees are having a few growing problems as the season starts, but the red sox being off to an unusually slow start is nothing but a plus.

  65. Boston Dave April 12th, 2009 at 7:16 pm

    Betsy,

    I agree with that 100%. Coke is going to be a good pitcher but his expectations, much like Melancon’s, were through the roof. It’s as if he’s already being deemed a failure.

    The strength of the Yankees bullpen is in it’s depth.

    I pray the bloggers here don’t play the stock market.

  66. 2nd Base April 12th, 2009 at 7:17 pm

    It’s no big deal. Theses thing happen.

  67. S.A.--It's a marathon, not a sprint April 12th, 2009 at 7:17 pm

    Girardi’s fault?

    Cashman’s fault?

    Think bigger:

    http://tinyurl.com/cmu5n9

    =================================

    Charlton Heston is to be blamed? :)

  68. MAXIMUS April 12th, 2009 at 7:17 pm

    I can’t believe that Beckett didn’t get ejected. I mean right at Bobby’s head. Are you serious? I don’t blame Bobby for being pissed what a cheap shot.

  69. Boston Dave April 12th, 2009 at 7:18 pm

    randy l,

    Take Youkilis out, who is tearing the cover off the ball, and the Sox lineup is off to a very slow start.

    Like you said, it’s only the first week, but the Sox had been getting off to hot starts in recent years.

  70. Boston Dave April 12th, 2009 at 7:20 pm

    Maximus,

    I don’t mind him not being ejected but perhaps issue a warning right away.

    The Angels and Sox meet again in a couple weeks I believe. Could be interesting…

  71. yankee fan in tampa April 12th, 2009 at 7:21 pm

    boston dave,

    coke was in the nady/marte trade.pirates changed there mind the next day.if they were so high on him they wouldn’t of put him in the deal.Coke since september has been pitching better than he is.that trade was a still for the pirates.

  72. Boston Dave April 12th, 2009 at 7:22 pm

    “boston dave,

    your right about ripping him either way.but he should of left marte in or brought in rivera for 4 outs.”

    ——————
    I agree with Pete about not bringing Rivera in for 4 outs. I can’t argue that Marte shouldn’t have stayed in.

    I just don’t see bringing in Veras to face a guy who is much better against lefties as a clear and obvious mistake. People are acting like Girardi screwed up bigtime. I don’t see it.

  73. Betsy April 12th, 2009 at 7:22 pm

    I really like the makeup of this team – there’s just a different feel about it and it’s not all due to the SP. I believe the Yankees tried last year, but at times they appeared to be zombies. This year, there appears to be more fight in them.

    The offense is doing fine, given that they are missing Alex and Tex. Jeter’s just in a slump – not worried about him. I think Cano had 2 hits today? That’s a great sign that he was able to forget yesterday’s 0-4 and start taking poor approaches again. The pen has been inconsistent and I think Joe is overrelying on Coke. He needs a rest and some other guys need some work……but it’s only 6 games. I’m sure the pen will come around. The SP will be great – we have a chance in every game, which is a nice feeling to have. I really want to see Wang pitch well tomorrow though; I don’t have as much confidence in him as I have had in the past

  74. Boston Dave April 12th, 2009 at 7:24 pm

    yankee fan in tampa,

    I meant that Yankee fans were building up their expectations for Coke too much. As soon as Coke struggles, he’s getting ripped. That just doesn’t make sense to me. He is going to be fine but people need to temper their expectations, IMO.

    When the Yankees made the trade last year with Pittsburgh, they were actually still trying to make the playoffs. They traded away 3 guys who weren’t going to contribute to that effort for 2 who were.

  75. Nick in SF April 12th, 2009 at 7:25 pm

    S.A.: I don’t know if it’s a question of blame or just the judgement of a higher power.

    Maybe our bullpen crumbled because smoke got in their eyes?

    http://tinyurl.com/djfjfk

  76. JINT April 12th, 2009 at 7:25 pm

    And if Girardi had brought in Edwar and he blew it, people would have gone crazy

    Just like it Butler had hit a HR off of Marte, he would have been killed for not going to a righty reliever.

    The right moves were made, people killing Girardi are crazy. Cassic 2nd guessing. It had nothing to do with ‘overmanaging’ it had to do with the pitchers not executing.

  77. GreenBeret7 April 12th, 2009 at 7:26 pm

    Big game pitched by David Phelps of Notre Dame. Pitching for Charleston, 5.2 innings, 3 hits 0 runs, 0 walks, 4 strikeouts in his first start. Had a very good season for Staten Island, last year.

  78. Boston Dave April 12th, 2009 at 7:26 pm

    p.s.

    The Pirates didn’t change their mind. Coke failed his physical (though I believe Coke contended that he did not fail).

    Either way, it worked out for the Yanks. Coke is a quality pitcher who will contribute to the team this season.

  79. 86w183 April 12th, 2009 at 7:27 pm

    BD— you keep ignoring one key point… Veras has pitched plenty already. He was not going to be at his best the day after 22 pitches especially this early in the year. Four outings in five games at this time of year IS too much.

    If you want to go RH, Albaladejo would have been a better choice. But today, leaving Marte in was the better choice.

    Life goes on… here’s one vote to give Bruney the eighth inning until further notice.

  80. Francis April 12th, 2009 at 7:28 pm

    Now people want to use Albaladejo in the 8th inning of a 1-run game? Based on the work he did in mop up duty?

    Now Girardi is a Joe Torre-clone for not using his long man in the 8th inning?

    You can’t make this stuff up.

  81. Open Field April 12th, 2009 at 7:29 pm

    Any news/update on Tex’s wrist?

  82. yankee fan in tampa April 12th, 2009 at 7:29 pm

    boston dave,

    i know what your saying i just don’t trust veras ever in one run games.also i liked the trade for the playoff run but we gave up alot and should of got back bay instead of nady.

  83. Giuseppe Franco April 12th, 2009 at 7:29 pm

    Won’t matter much, but Beckett will get fined and suspended for his headhunting.

    Watson doesn’t tolerate that stuff.

  84. Boof Henderson April 12th, 2009 at 7:30 pm

    Damaso Marte = Felix Heredia

    Giradi is an idiot he gave that win to the royals on a plate

  85. GreenBeret7 April 12th, 2009 at 7:30 pm

    The two options to bringing in Veras against Butler was Ramirez and Albaladejo. Big fastballer vs breaking ball pitchers with the wind blowing out to left field.

  86. Boston Dave April 12th, 2009 at 7:31 pm

    Betsy,

    Definitely. The Yanks are scoring plenty (about 6 runs a game – which would lead the majors if they kept that pace up).

    As has been mentioned quite a bit, they’ll need to hit with RISP. Especially considering they’ve been missing their best hitter, they’ve scored as many or more runs than I’d have expected.

    Is there a bigger upgrade offensively in the majors than ARod over Ransom? Once Alex comes back, they’ll be in good shape, IMO.

  87. tampayank April 12th, 2009 at 7:32 pm

    This team will be fine, Joba exceeded expectations as a #5 in bad weather, the pen has depth, had a hiccup today but I’ll put the Yanks pen over Tampa’s or Boston’s.
    Ofcourse ESPN is asking if Joba should go back to the pen after today’s 8th inning blunder….didn’t see he worked 6 solid innings!!!! Idiots

  88. Betsy April 12th, 2009 at 7:32 pm

    NESN guys were ripping Beckett? There’s a first time for everything. Man, I like having intimidating fireballers on the mound (like AJ – someone who will put the fear of you know who in a hitter), but throwing at someone’s head is attempted murder. Doing it under the circumstances that the Angels are going through? Unbelievably cruel. The Angels got their revenge the best way they could, though – good for them.

    Randy, how serious do you think the Yanks problems are?

  89. Boston Dave April 12th, 2009 at 7:34 pm

    “BD—- you keep ignoring one key point… Veras has pitched plenty already. He was not going to be at his best the day after 22 pitches especially this early in the year.”

    ———————-

    I have no problem with that argument. I agree with bringing a right hander in for that situation though.

    Considering it was for one batter only, I would expect that Veras could handle back to back days. I get what you’re saying though.

  90. Closer April 12th, 2009 at 7:36 pm

    Thinking that Melancon could do a better job than Veras or Coke is hardly ‘overhyping’ him.

    It’s not like he’s going to be thrust into the 8th inning anyway, that will go to Bruney/Marte.

    Let him get his feet wet and pitch in low leverage situations first and work his way up.

    You’re just delaying the inevitable, and he has the potential to be the stabilizer in the 8th inning.

  91. Boston Dave April 12th, 2009 at 7:36 pm

    “Ofcourse ESPN is asking if Joba should go back to the pen after today’s 8th inning blunder”

    ——————-

    did ESPN show the bullpen’s stats over the previous few games?

  92. Open Field April 12th, 2009 at 7:36 pm

    Peter says the Yankees will likely X-Ray Tex’s arm tomorrow in Tampa. Which begs the question, why haven’t they already X-Rayed his arm?????? What are they waiting for?

  93. Bill April 12th, 2009 at 7:37 pm

    Am I the only one who has no faith in Wang tomorrow going against Kazmir?

    I’d feel better about this game if that wasn’t the matchup we were looking at.

  94. Boston Dave April 12th, 2009 at 7:39 pm

    “Thinking that Melancon could do a better job than Veras or Coke is hardly ‘overhyping’ him.”

    ——————–

    I wouldn’t argue with that. We’re still talking about a guy who has never thrown a major league pitch though.

    All of this talk is coming from ONE bad game from the bullpen today. If there are problems in the pen a month from now, they can reevaluate.

    I’m personally confident that the Yanks pen, as-is, will be one of the better bullpens in the league. If they add Melancon at some point, even better. But I wouldn’t be shocked or concerned if he struggled at times.

  95. Boston Dave April 12th, 2009 at 7:40 pm

    Open Field,

    I’m going to be sick if they find anything serious in those x-rays.

    not sure why they waited. I suppose it doesn’t really matter because it’s not like he played.

  96. A-List April 12th, 2009 at 7:41 pm

    Coke gave up a HR to freakin Ceaser Izturis and Joe thinks he should pitch the 8th inning?

    He couldn’t even get the bottom of the order out.

    Silly that people suggested he was better than Marte and some dominant pitcher.

  97. Boston Dave April 12th, 2009 at 7:42 pm

    “Am I the only one who has no faith in Wang tomorrow going against Kazmir?”

    ——————

    I’d like to have faith in Wang but it’s still just his second start since his injury and he didn’t get it done in the first one.

    I have faith that Wang will be fine this season, just not sure when it will kick in.

  98. 7*7 April 12th, 2009 at 7:45 pm

    Veras has pitched 3 out of the last 4 games. With how deep our pen is, there was no need to put him out there again. Could have thrown out Edwar, he is fresh.

    And Veras walks guys. That is his game. Girardi should have allowed him to try and get the final out, not panicked after a walk. The guy gives up a ton of walks, but can K guys and usually gets out of trouble.

    People shouldn’t kill Veras, e didn’t blow the game, Coke did. Veras didn’t get a chance to get out of trouble.

  99. Betsy April 12th, 2009 at 7:45 pm

    I doubt Watson will suspend Beckett – he doesn’t wear pinstripes.

  100. V April 12th, 2009 at 7:46 pm

    Girardi is a goner. May 1

  101. Jordan W. April 12th, 2009 at 7:46 pm

    The manager’s job is to put his team in the best position to win.

    With that being said, Phil Coke never should have been in that game.

    This loss is on Girardi, plain and simple.

    However, it’s one loss and every team has to lose 60, so let’s consider this one of those 60.

  102. Tankus April 12th, 2009 at 7:47 pm

    Joe has way too much faith in Coke, who looks to be another September/Spring Training wonder.

    How can we kill the fans for believing the hype when his own manager did?

    His velocity is down from last year too… lots of 89-91s and not 93-95s.

  103. beck April 12th, 2009 at 7:47 pm

    *Joe what was with your line up today,and what has Edwar*
    *done to you,for him not to be used today?*

  104. Betsy April 12th, 2009 at 7:49 pm

    ESPN is only asking the question because they don’t think the pen is very good. OH well – I never watch ESPN anyway.

    If Tex is hurt ……….lord, I don’t want to think about that at all.

  105. GreenBeret7 April 12th, 2009 at 7:50 pm

    Pat Venditte closes out a perfect 9th to pick up his 2nd save in a row for Charleston. All right handed batters this time. so far this year, he’s gotten 2 outs as a right hander and 5 as a left hander. The hit allowed was as a left hander. 0 walks this year, so far.

  106. Harper M April 12th, 2009 at 7:52 pm

    I trust Masterson, Delcarmen, Saito, Ramirez etc. more than Veras, Marte, Coke, Edwar etc.

    Girardi needs to use Coke as the long man, no more high leverage situations for him.

  107. joeman April 12th, 2009 at 7:55 pm

    early season games are just as important as late season games….Gardner,Melky,Ramson are AAA players at best..another thing Joba will be lucky to win 10 games this year he should be the 8th inning guy period( watch how many games they lose in the 8th inning). The Yankees are 3-3 after playing those two teams with their SP ?

    most of you guys don’t like Mike Fran but he’s right on with Joba…anyone know how many innings he average as a starter last year

  108. Boston Dave April 12th, 2009 at 7:58 pm

    “Pat Venditte closes out a perfect 9th to pick up his 2nd save in a row for Charleston.”

    ———

    I’d love to see him make it to the Yanks at some point. What is the rule for changing ‘arms’ in the middle of the inning (once per batter?) ?

  109. MAXIMUS April 12th, 2009 at 7:58 pm

    “most of you guys don’t like Mike Fran but he’s right on with Joba…anyone know how many innings he average as a starter last year”

    Hearing him for even a minute makes me sick. I’d rather listen to Michael Kay and thats saying a lot.

  110. yankee fan in tampa April 12th, 2009 at 7:59 pm

    joeman,

    about 6 max.but that was on purpose

  111. joeman April 12th, 2009 at 8:01 pm

    the Yanks are scoring 6 runs a game..BIG DEAL…look at who they have played

  112. Boston Dave April 12th, 2009 at 8:02 pm

    Joba added to the already obvious case that he should be a starter today.

  113. Giuseppe Franco April 12th, 2009 at 8:03 pm

    most of you guys don’t like Mike Fran but he’s right on with Joba…anyone know how many innings he average as a starter last year

    ———–

    Including today, Joba has made eleven starts without a pre-determined pitch count and has thrown at least 6.0 IP in eight of them and was 1 out away from doing it for a ninth time in eleven starts.

    So Francesa doesn’t have any idea what he’s talking about.

  114. GreenBeret7 April 12th, 2009 at 8:04 pm

    Boston Dave
    April 12th, 2009 at 7:58 pm
    “Pat Venditte closes out a perfect 9th to pick up his 2nd save in a row for Charleston.”
    ————-

    I’d love to see him make it to the Yanks at some point. What is the rule for changing ‘arms’ in the middle of the inning (once per batter?) ?

    ————————————————————

    Dave, it’s still difficult not to think of him as a novelty, but, it’s also difficult to disregard his results since signing. Pretty impressive. I’ve seen him pitch 1 time on tv in college and once at staten Island. I belive that the offense has to declare what side they’re batting from when the batter is a switch hitter. Other than that, he pitches according to the batter, but, the offense has first choice of sides. Once that’s decided, neither the batter or pitcher can change sides (in the case of switch hitters).

  115. Brad Pitt's better-looking brother April 12th, 2009 at 8:05 pm

    So many second-guessers, over-reactors, and infallible arm-chair managers here.
    And to think Brian Cashman didn’t even realize the wealth of knowledge he could mine from this site to manage his team.

  116. joeman April 12th, 2009 at 8:05 pm

    bring up Jackson and play him everyday…Gardner,Melky & Ransom stink

  117. Jeter in LF April 12th, 2009 at 8:06 pm

    There is no way I’d use Rivera in the 8th right now.

    Veras, otoh, cannot be used in a high leverage situation. His command is too suspect.

  118. Jeter in LF April 12th, 2009 at 8:07 pm

    Is joeman Francesa’s user name?

  119. Boston Dave April 12th, 2009 at 8:08 pm

    “Dave, it’s still difficult not to think of him as a novelty, but, it’s also difficult to disregard his results since signing. Pretty impressive.”

    —————————————–

    Certainly. The odds are against it but it would be really cool to see him make it. I’m sure if he had even remote success he’d get talked about quite a bit by the media.

  120. Boston Dave April 12th, 2009 at 8:09 pm

    Jeter in LF,

    I wasn’t sure if joeman was a troll or just one of the typical negative posters after a loss. I’ll try to avoid his comments since I’m not sure.

  121. joeman April 12th, 2009 at 8:09 pm

    Jeter in LF
    April 12th, 2009 at 8:07 pm
    Is joeman Francesa’s user name?

    nope but joeman has been a Yankee fan for over 50 years…so what’s your story?

  122. yankee fan in tampa April 12th, 2009 at 8:09 pm

    giradi should never of got the job and either should of mattingly.not pena either.the problem is they were the only ones interviewed.

  123. Ogie Oglethorpe April 12th, 2009 at 8:11 pm

    Pete–You’re wrong. They gave Marte $12 Million for 3 years to get out lefties and righties.

    This was a disgrace.

  124. GreenBeret7 April 12th, 2009 at 8:11 pm

    Boston Dave
    April 12th, 2009 at 8:08 pm
    “Dave, it’s still difficult not to think of him as a novelty, but, it’s also difficult to disregard his results since signing. Pretty impressive.”
    ————————————————————-

    Certainly. The odds are against it but it would be really cool to see him make it. I’m sure if he had even remote success he’d get talked about quite a bit by the media.

    ————————————————————

    I think that after June, if all goes well, Venditte may be in Tampa, where they already have a good closer in Jonathan Ortiz, last night’s showing aside.

  125. yankee fan in tampa April 12th, 2009 at 8:12 pm

    Jeter in LF

    are you kidding me? 4 outs not the whole inning.

  126. Boston Dave April 12th, 2009 at 8:12 pm

    tomorrow’s a new day – Yanks are 3-1 in their last 4 and the only starter who hasn’t shown what they’re capable of yet is Wang. He gets another chance tomorrow.

    it could be much, much worse. Imagine if CC had another bad start instead of the gem he tossed yesterday. Or if Joba struggled. Or Andy. Or even worse, if one of the starters were hurt.

  127. joeman April 12th, 2009 at 8:13 pm

    Boston Dave
    April 12th, 2009 at 8:09 pm
    Jeter in LF,

    I wasn’t sure if joeman was a troll or just one of the typical negative posters after a loss. I’ll try to avoid his comments since I’m not sure.

    trust me I have seen it all

  128. Betsy April 12th, 2009 at 8:14 pm

    http://community.thetimes-trib.....notes.aspx

    Good game for Phil – nice to see his change and cutter coming along

  129. GreenBeret7 April 12th, 2009 at 8:14 pm

    Soriano’s led off another game with a homer. 3 this year and about 55 in his career (I think).

  130. Boston Dave April 12th, 2009 at 8:15 pm

    “Pete—You’re wrong. They gave Marte $12 Million for 3 years to get out lefties and righties.

    This was a disgrace.”

    ————————–

    Girardi played the %’s. A player’s salary shouldn’t get in the way of doing what is best for the team’s chances (chance being the operative word).

    I hardly see putting a right hander in to face a hitter who is much better against lefties a “disgrace”. You’d have a better argument if you said it should have been Edwar or Alby.

  131. yankee fan in tampa April 12th, 2009 at 8:16 pm

    Jeter in LF

    gossage would laugh at you.

  132. joeman April 12th, 2009 at 8:17 pm

    hey can Soriano play CF

  133. Boston Dave April 12th, 2009 at 8:18 pm

    I knew Soriano was off to a hot start but didn’t realize he already had 3 leadoff HR. wow.

    I’m still amazed Washington let him go for draft picks and didn’t get anything via trade for him.

  134. Jeter in LF April 12th, 2009 at 8:19 pm

    joeman April 12th, 2009 at 8:09 pm

    nope but joeman has been a Yankee fan for over 50 years…so what’s your story
    __

    The story is, joeman, that you just watched Joba’s first start of the season, a game in which he pitched 6 IP, gave up 1 ER, had 6 K and 1 BB, and that he could have gone seven or eight IP but for Swisher’s error forcing to him throw a bunch more pitches, and for some inexplicable reason, instead of being psyched that you have a 23 year old who shows signs of being a dominant starter, you somehow think that performance supports the ludicrous contention that he should be in the pen because…wait for it…Girardi overmanaged the pen.

    So I’m not sure what 50 years has taught you, joeman, but it should have taught you that young pitches who can be the ace of a staff are worth more than a set up reliever.

    How do I know that?

    A top starter makes $23 million per year.

    A top set up reliver makes about $5 million per year.

    Don’t you believe in market economics, joeman?

    Even the best closer in MLB history doesn’t make close to $23 million a year.

    Get with the program, joeman, and stop listening to Francesa.

  135. Giuseppe Franco April 12th, 2009 at 8:20 pm

    gossage would laugh at you.

    ——-

    I’ve got news for you. The game isn’t played that way anymore.

    Closers don’t pitch multiple innings very often.

    And what part of “Mo is 39 years old and had offseason shoulder surgery so he isn’t going to be allowed to throw more than one inning in rainy 30 degree weather in early April” do you not understand?

  136. Jeter in LF April 12th, 2009 at 8:22 pm

    Did Gossage have four plus pitches? I don’t think so.

  137. m April 12th, 2009 at 8:22 pm

    Let’s see how the team reacts to a tough loss before proclaiming that:

    1. Girardi’s incompetent
    2. The bullpen sucks
    3. The season is over.

    If Girardi could do it all over again, I think he would’ve just stuck with Marte in the 8th. So not a fan of changing pitchers in the middle of an inning unless the starter is gassed or a reliever’s in big trouble.

    Neither happened today.

    And what’s with Joba walking a guy and hitting Teahen? Those runs may have been unearned, but those 2 guys were on Joba.

  138. Jeff NJ April 12th, 2009 at 8:24 pm

    Here’s the deal, there is one day a week where Joba should be pitching the 8th and it was today. No idea why he had to go out after 6 innings, ask yourself whether Sabathia would be treated differently.

    I repeat, there is “ONE DAY A WEEK THAT JOBA SHOULD BE PITCHING THE EIGHTH, JOBAMO DAY”.

    Girardi pulled him too soon.

  139. GreenBeret7 April 12th, 2009 at 8:25 pm

    Actually, it was Soriano’s 2nd this year and 51st career.

  140. Jeter in LF April 12th, 2009 at 8:25 pm

    m

    And what’s with Joba walking a guy and hitting Teahen? Those runs may have been unearned, but those 2 guys were on Joba.
    ___

    His mechanics got out of wack. It happens.

  141. m April 12th, 2009 at 8:27 pm

    Jeter,

    Thanks. My mlb.tv was frozen, but I followed it in horror via gameday.

    Thought maybe Joba was getting Teahen back for saying Joba wasn’t all that. :)

  142. GreenBeret7 April 12th, 2009 at 8:28 pm

    Boston Dave
    April 12th, 2009 at 8:18 pm
    I knew Soriano was off to a hot start but didn’t realize he already had 3 leadoff HR. wow.

    I’m still amazed Washington let him go for draft picks and didn’t get anything via trade for him.

    ————————————————————

    He’s hitting about .300 with a steal and a couple of doubles. The one thing that has always surprised me about him and alex Rodriguez is the low triples totals considering their power and speed. Soriano has 23 and Rodriguez has 26.

  143. Giuseppe Franco April 12th, 2009 at 8:29 pm

    Here’s the deal, there is one day a week where Joba should be pitching the 8th and it was today. No idea why he had to go out after 6 innings, ask yourself whether Sabathia would be treated differently.

    ———

    Joba’s on an innings cap of roughly 150 IP this season – Sabathia is probably going to pitch well over 200 IP.

    It’s not really that complicated.

  144. Teixeiramvp April 12th, 2009 at 8:29 pm

    This game was lost by Girardi. First of all, Joe has said time and time again that Bruney is our eighth inning guy, so what’s he doing putting him in in the seventh? Stupid. In the seventh he should have a guy picked out and in the eighth he should have a guy picked out, and he should only go lefty-righty when absolutely necessary. We should have had Albaladejo in in the seventh, or Veras. And in that eighth inning, keep in Marte! He got two quick outs; let him get one more. If he lets someone on base, then put another guy in. Another way to simplify this game even more would be to let Joba actually (God forbid) go seven innings, then use Bruney in the eighth, and of course Mo in the ninth. There were countless ways to win this game, and very few to lose it. Girardi hit one of the few ways to lose this game on the head.

  145. Jeff NJ April 12th, 2009 at 8:30 pm

    I mean Joba only through 88 pitches today, why can’t he pitch at least the seventh? Think CC would be out of the game at 88 pitches in 6 innings? Joba could conceivably pitched his own eighth inning if he worked a quick 7th.

  146. Teixeiramvp April 12th, 2009 at 8:30 pm

    Joba should have pitched seven innings. All of this drama would have been avoided.

  147. Jeff NJ April 12th, 2009 at 8:30 pm

    threw not through

  148. m April 12th, 2009 at 8:31 pm

    Can’t fault Girardi for limiting Joba in this game.

    Girardi never handed the 8th inning job. But he may have just gotten it by default.

  149. Teixeiramvp April 12th, 2009 at 8:31 pm

    If he only threw 88 pitches he conceivably could have gone a full nine innings w/o an inflated pitch count. I’m tired of the way they pamper this guy. You know what, I’m for Joba as a starter, but if you’re really that worried he’s going to get hurt, don’t start him!

  150. m April 12th, 2009 at 8:32 pm

    *never handed Bruney the 8th inning job.

  151. Boston Dave April 12th, 2009 at 8:32 pm

    “This game was lost by Girardi. First of all, Joe has said time and time again that Bruney is our eighth inning guy, so what’s he doing putting him in in the seventh? Stupid.”

    ——————

    I wouldn’t call using a right hander against righties and a left-hander against lefties “stupid”.

  152. Teixeiramvp April 12th, 2009 at 8:32 pm

    That being said, I’m not advocating a full nine innings, but is seven too much to ask?

  153. bodhisattva April 12th, 2009 at 8:32 pm

    robbie
    April 12th, 2009 at 5:12 pm
    bring melky back to cf…. we don’t need offense… we need defense… guys r running around the bases when they see BG fielding the ball….
    =====================================================

    It’s kind of unbelievable how under the radar Gardner’s poor play has been. Agree 100 percent, and not just because of his arm.

  154. yankee fan in tampa April 12th, 2009 at 8:33 pm

    Giuseppe Franco ,

    mariano would of pitched the 9th anyway.in the noreaster hazardous conditions your talking about.

  155. Jeff NJ April 12th, 2009 at 8:33 pm

    One good consequence of this game. I bet they fast track Melancon, he will be a factor this year.

  156. you gotta have faith (bronx zoo 2009) April 12th, 2009 at 8:33 pm

    tough loss today, overall though it was an okay series, we took 2 outta 3 from an inferior team which is not something we should hope for, this is a good team, it should be expected of them. would’ve like the sweep, but hey, you can always get what you want.

  157. Boston Dave April 12th, 2009 at 8:34 pm

    “Joba’s on an innings cap of roughly 150 IP this season – Sabathia is probably going to pitch well over 200 IP.

    It’s not really that complicated.”

    ——————————–

    apparently, “complicated” is a relative term.

  158. yankee fan in tampa April 12th, 2009 at 8:34 pm

    Giuseppe Franco,

    wouldn’t of rivera pitched the 9th anyway.in the noreaster hazardous conditions your talking about.

  159. Teixeiramvp April 12th, 2009 at 8:34 pm

    Boston Dave-Girardi was overthinking it. If he didn’t give Bruney the eighth, it’s about time he did. We need a set-up man. Marte was doing fine, he only needed one more out. If Marte couldn’t get it, then you him out.

  160. m April 12th, 2009 at 8:34 pm

    Yes, 7 innings is too much to ask when the Yankees are already penciling in Joba for 30 starts, which in and of itself is already a risk.

  161. Teixeiramvp April 12th, 2009 at 8:36 pm

    bodhisattva-Gotta disagree. Look at our lineup today. We need offense. Anyway, that’s really the first bad play I’ve noticed.
    Anyway, maybe late in games he’ll use Melky.

    On the plus side, we may see Melancon soon. I am big on this kid, who I think may be great. (MAY!)

  162. GreenBeret7 April 12th, 2009 at 8:36 pm

    Boston Dave
    April 12th, 2009 at 8:32 pm
    “This game was lost by Girardi. First of all, Joe has said time and time again that Bruney is our eighth inning guy, so what’s he doing putting him in in the seventh? Stupid.”
    —————————
    I wouldn’t call using a right hander against righties and a left-hander against lefties “stupid”.

    ————————————————————

    Who does Girardi think he is, anyway? Alexander Cartwright/Abner Doubleday? Trying to reinvent the game? Never saw that stategy before.

  163. yankee fan in tampa April 12th, 2009 at 8:36 pm

    Teixeiramvp,

    you are right on with your last post

  164. Jeter in LF April 12th, 2009 at 8:37 pm

    Jeff NJ

    One good consequence of this game. I bet they fast track Melancon, he will be a factor this year.
    __

    I think he’ll be up by the AS break, and hopefully put a lid on the Joba to the pen talk forever.

  165. you gotta have faith (bronx zoo 2009) April 12th, 2009 at 8:37 pm

    oh please stop with the whole joba should have pitched more, girardi is an idiot crap.

    if he sent joba back out there and joba got in trouble and gave up runs than everyone would be saying how girardi is an idiot for not taking joba out and leaving it to the bullpen who have been great the past 4 games.

    give me a break.

  166. Teixeiramvp April 12th, 2009 at 8:38 pm

    m-Well, he had less than 90 pitches. Come on, if you’re that worried about starting him then don’t start him!

  167. Teixeiramvp April 12th, 2009 at 8:39 pm

    No, I won’t stop. If Joba got shelled I wouldn’t have blamed Girardi.
    He had LESS than 90 pitches! Give me a break! Perhaps not Girardi alone, but the whole stinking front office is pampering Joba to the point of nauseation.

  168. Boston Dave April 12th, 2009 at 8:40 pm

    “Yes, 7 innings is too much to ask when the Yankees are already penciling in Joba for 30 starts, which in and of itself is already a risk.”

    ——————-

    C’mon m, Joba should have thrown 9 innings. It’s not like the pen had thrown 11 straight scoreless innings allowing just 1 hit prior to this.

    oh, wait….

  169. Teixeiramvp April 12th, 2009 at 8:41 pm

    Besides, he wouldn’t have gotten shelled. The second a runner got in scoring position, yank him.

  170. Jeter in LF April 12th, 2009 at 8:41 pm

    Teixeiramvp

    m-Well, he had less than 90 pitches. Come on, if you’re that worried about starting him then don’t start him!
    __

    It’s just his first start of the season. I have no problem with pulling there.

  171. Boston Dave April 12th, 2009 at 8:41 pm

    lol GB,

    exactly :)

  172. m April 12th, 2009 at 8:41 pm

    Teixeira,

    I assume “you” is the Yankees, right? I’m just telling you what’s probably part of their thinking process. They’re looking at the long-term picture.

    Let’s just pretend Joba was at 103 pitches after 6. We’d still have the same problem. 9 outs by the bullpen.

    Bottom line, they didn’t get it done.

  173. GreenBeret7 April 12th, 2009 at 8:41 pm

    Teixeiramvp
    April 12th, 2009 at 8:38 pm
    m-Well, he had less than 90 pitches. Come on, if you’re that worried about starting him then don’t start him

    ————————————————————

    It was his first start in more than 10 days. You really want him out there for his first start for 7-8 innings after 90 pitches? I don’t….not this soon.

  174. WeMIssPaulie April 12th, 2009 at 8:42 pm

    Does anyone think that the reliance on pitch counts is getting a bit too intense? Joba had a 100 pitch count today, before the game even started AND WAS PULLED AT 88. What if he feels fine for more?

  175. Teixeiramvp April 12th, 2009 at 8:44 pm

    Boston Dave-True, and I know I’m repeating myself, but why then did CC pitch into the eighth while Joba didn’t, even though Joba had less than 90 pitches?
    Answer: They ridiculously pamper Joba. As good as any bullpen is, they’re never as good as an effective starter. While of course there are never gurantees, at less than 90 pitches Joba still should have been effective.
    Bullpen is always a risk, and despite 11 straight scoreless innings, our bullpen certainly isn’t full of stars.

  176. bodhisattva April 12th, 2009 at 8:44 pm

    Betsy,

    Not a great day for Hughes to be on the mound. Weather was awful, very windy, couldn’t get his breaking pitches over, threw a fairly strict diet of cut FBs and as game wore on, occasional change and only towards end was able to pull the string a couple of Xs.

    Just too cold and windy to get a hand on feel pitches. But he worked both sides of plate nicely and had some zip all day. Glad I braved the wind and went.

  177. Giuseppe Franco April 12th, 2009 at 8:45 pm

    Giuseppe Franco,

    wouldn’t of rivera pitched the 9th anyway.in the noreaster hazardous conditions your talking about.

    ———

    The point is that Mo would have had to warm up twice to pitch to get four outs.

    They are not going to let him pitch in the 8th – sit in the dugout for the top of 9th, and then warm up again to pitch the Bot 9th.

    I know Mo is superhuman to us mere mortals. But the guy is 39 years old and had shoulder surgery during the offseason.

    There’s not a chance in hell Girardi is going to gamble on his health this early in the season.

  178. Teixeiramvp April 12th, 2009 at 8:46 pm

    Yeah, I don’t think it’s too much to ask any pitcher to pitch 100 pitches.
    Joba traditionally has high pitch counts, and for once it was low today. It would have made sense to capitalize.
    WeMIssPaulie-I completely agree with that comment.

  179. m April 12th, 2009 at 8:47 pm

    Teixeira,

    A good bullpen can be better than an effective starters sometimes.

    Hitters start seeing the ball better the 3rd time through the lineup. Starters lose their steam. Relievers give a different look.

    Girardi messed up, the bullpen messed up, Joba messed up in the inning he hit the wall, the defense messed up, the hitters messed up (quite a few GIDPs).

    At least we won the series. Everyone (including us!) needs to flip the page and worry about TB. These games are doubly important.

  180. Boston Dave April 12th, 2009 at 8:48 pm

    Tex,

    I agree with GF on this one.

    “Joba’s on an innings cap of roughly 150 IP this season – Sabathia is probably going to pitch well over 200 IP.

    It’s not really that complicated.”

    I’d have no problem with Joba going 7 but I also think they’re going to have to do this on occasion. You need to trust the bullpen. They’ll get it done more often than not.

  181. Teixeiramvp April 12th, 2009 at 8:48 pm

    Or how about this: Keep Veras in, he walked one batter, it’s not the end of the world. No need to take him out.

  182. GreenBeret7 April 12th, 2009 at 8:48 pm

    Teixeiramvp
    April 12th, 2009 at 8:44 pm
    Boston Dave-True, and I know I’m repeating myself, but why then did CC pitch into the eighth while Joba didn’t, even though Joba had less than 90 pitches?
    Answer: They ridiculously pamper Joba. As good as any bullpen is, they’re never as good as an effective starter. While of course there are never gurantees, at less than 90 pitches Joba still should have been effective.
    Bullpen is always a risk, and despite 11 straight scoreless innings, our bullpen certainly isn’t full of stars.

    ————————————————————

    For the same reason that Burnett was pulled in the 6th inning. He was at 98. I’d assume that Girardi also didn’t want to bring in a pitcher in the middle of an inning unless he had to.

  183. Jeff NJ April 12th, 2009 at 8:52 pm

    ok so we agree, mistake number one was taking Joba out so early. After that I could care less who gave up what. The answer to the question of who should pitch the eighth is one day Joba, one day CC and two to three days Melancon. Make it happen Cash.

  184. Teixeiramvp April 12th, 2009 at 8:53 pm

    m: Sometimes. But you shouldn’t consistently expect it, especially since our bullpen is not full of stars.
    Boston Dave: I thought we were looking at pitch count. He was at (sorry for the broken record) LESS THAN 90!
    To all: Sorry for the harsh tones, this loss just annoyed me to no end.

  185. Teixeiramvp April 12th, 2009 at 8:53 pm

    GreenBeret7-Burnett was at 98. Joba 88.

  186. yankee fan in tampa April 12th, 2009 at 8:54 pm

    Giuseppe Franco ,

    my first choice was to let marte finish the inning.next would of been edwar or johnny alba.then mo.but i think mo could of did it and been fine.This is a tough divison and every win counts.we need to seperate from the pack so we can lose some games against good teams and still be ok.

  187. bodhisattva April 12th, 2009 at 8:54 pm

    Teixeiramvp
    April 12th, 2009 at 8:36 pm
    bodhisattva-Gotta disagree. Look at our lineup today. We need offense. Anyway, that’s really the first bad play I’ve noticed.
    Anyway, maybe late in games he’ll use Melky.
    On the plus side, we may see Melancon soon. I am big on this kid, who I think may be great. (MAY!)
    ====================
    I’m not even talking about the throw. The recurring issue has not led to the decisive run, which is one reason why it sneaks out of view. My conclusion is these things are only noticed when a run is given up or perhaps only if the run given up isn’t overcome.

    The Yankees, however, are noticing; that I’m sure of. What they intend to do about it is another matter.

    Melancon, yeah, great guy to be psyched about: saw him live today. He’s special. I’ll be a little melancholy when I don’t get to go to rinky dink parks and sit right behind the plate to watch him. Oh well, guess the tradeoff that he’ll likely be handing off the Mo is worth it.

  188. yankee fan in tampa April 12th, 2009 at 8:55 pm

    veras would of never been in the game.

  189. Teixeiramvp April 12th, 2009 at 8:55 pm

    What is Gardner’s recurring problem then, bodhisattva?

  190. m April 12th, 2009 at 8:56 pm

    Teixeira,

    It must’ve irritated you to no end when they’d take Moose out after 6 innings, 86 pitches, too, right?

  191. SJ44 April 12th, 2009 at 8:57 pm

    Comparing Joba to CC is idiotic.

    One is on an innings cap, one is not. One is in his first full year of starting and the other is one of the best three starting pitchers in the game.

    One is coming off an injury and hasn’t pitched this season and one has not.

    Really, I understand this place turns into a sewer after losses but, think a little bit.

    Joba Chamberlain is not under the same rules as CC Sabathia. If you can’t comprehend that because you are too emotional over one April loss, go to bed and come back tomorrow when you are thinking clearly.

    Girardi made the right moves, they just didn’t work out. That’s baseball. Man up and deal with it.

    Just as he didn’t change the entire team when they started 0-2, despite pleas to the contrary from people on this blog, he’s not going to blow up the bullpen because they blew the game today.

    You know what he’s going to do? He’s going to send these guys back out there in the same situation again and expect them to perform. If they show they can’t over more than ONE failed outing, THEN he will address it.

    Until then, calm the heck down over the game and look at the fact they won the series and have more going for them than not. Stop acting like Red Sox fans.

    Its a far cry to where the team was a year ago at this time and they don’t even have Arod yet.

  192. Teixeiramvp April 12th, 2009 at 8:57 pm

    I am psyched for Melancon; all stuff I hear about him is great. He will be the set-up man of now and the closer of the future.

  193. Giuseppe Franco April 12th, 2009 at 8:59 pm

    but i think mo could of did it and been fine.

    ——–

    Are you a doctor or a trainer? How do you know Mo would have been fine?

    That’s your uninformed medical opinion and you’re entitled to it.

    You can piss and moan over this decision all night and second guess Girardi when it’s not your ass on the line.

    But Girardi isn’t going to risk the health of his Hall of Fame closer in the first week of the season.

    It’s as simple as that.

  194. GreenBeret7 April 12th, 2009 at 8:59 pm

    Brandon Webb to the DL with a sore shoulder.

  195. vin April 12th, 2009 at 8:59 pm

    “I think he’ll be up by the AS break, and hopefully put a lid on the Joba to the pen talk forever.”

    … One of the many benefits.

  196. Jeter in LF April 12th, 2009 at 8:59 pm

    I agree with SJ44 up until the point where he says Girardi made the right moves. I don’t believe in the handedness fixation.

  197. Teixeiramvp April 12th, 2009 at 8:59 pm

    m-Yes! Exactly!
    SJ44-You’re entitled to your opinion, but I just don’t believe that.
    This is a game that I believe Girardi lost us with bad managing.
    And yes, we did win the series. This Tampa Bay series is a big statement series.
    I think we have chance to sweep (just a chance!), and I think we SHOULD win 2 of 3.

  198. Teixeiramvp April 12th, 2009 at 9:00 pm

    By the way, I’m not comparing Joba to CC per se, I’m saying that ANY starter should be ablo to go 100 pitches.

  199. Jeff NJ April 12th, 2009 at 9:01 pm

    harsh words SJ44, shees. It is my opinion that Joba should be free of rules at this point. He throws 100 in side sessions. My real point was that, in the future when Joba matures, he will be pitching his own 8ths and at least he would be 1/5 of what Francessa wants, the lucky bastard.

  200. m April 12th, 2009 at 9:02 pm

    It doesn’t even matter what Girardi did or didn’t do. He could bring in 8 pitchers if he wanted to. Their job is to get that last out in the 8th.

  201. Teixeiramvp April 12th, 2009 at 9:03 pm

    Jeff NJ-The Joba rules always annoyed me. Let the kid play! We’ll never know if he could be effective up to, say eventually 110 pitches if he never gets there.

  202. GreenBeret7 April 12th, 2009 at 9:04 pm

    Teixeiramvp
    April 12th, 2009 at 8:53 pm
    GreenBeret7-Burnett was at 98. Joba 88.

    ————————————————————

    I know that. I also said that I doubt that Girardi wanted to bring another pitcher into the game in the middle of the inning or with runners on. How many innings does Chamberlain finish off in 12 pitches or less? Very few. First start of the year and it’s in bad weather, and in 3 of his last 4 innings, they were stressful. Just because you want it your way, doesn’t mean it’s right.

  203. Betsy April 12th, 2009 at 9:04 pm

    If Joe is not going to let Veras (as an example) try to pitch out of trouble (and 1 man on first base isn’t necessarily trouble, even though it’s the tying run), then he’s not exactly showing confidence in him. Didn’t we praise Joe’s pen management last year because he showed confidence in everyone and didn’t send guys to the doghouse after a rough outing? It seems he’s different this year……same guys used, pulling them when they let one man get on base. Am I being a bit hasty in my judgment?

  204. Buddy April 12th, 2009 at 9:04 pm

    The walk killed us. Veras is not going to be an 8th inning solution. He looks like a 7th inning pitcher IMO. Whenever you walk batters in the late innings it comes back to haunt you. Veras didn’t get the job done, and Coke just made matters worse. Bottom line, Coke has not looked good in the last couple of games. If he doesn’t get right in a hurry, there are other arms knocking on the door. Good stuff or not. I would love to see Bruney step into the 8th inning set up role, spotted by either Marte/Coke to get tough lefties out. We’ll see. The bullpen competition looks wide open to me at this point, except for Mo.

  205. Teixeiramvp April 12th, 2009 at 9:04 pm

    m-I thought he brought in the wrong pitchers at the wrong times and took out the wrong pitchers at the wrong times.
    At least the Mets lost. David Murphy makes a big error. Hey Mets fans, is David Murphy still going to be better than Derek Jeter?

  206. m April 12th, 2009 at 9:06 pm

    Teix.

    That’s fine. But if any of those guys get the out, we’re not having this convo.

  207. tampayank April 12th, 2009 at 9:06 pm

    “Teixeiramvp April 12th, 2009 at 8:59 pm

    m-Yes! Exactly!
    SJ44-You’re entitled to your opinion, but I just don’t believe that.
    This is a game that I believe Girardi lost us with bad managing.
    And yes, we did win the series. This Tampa Bay series is a big statement series.
    I think we have chance to sweep (just a chance!), and I think we SHOULD win 2 of 3.”

    I hope, it will be loud for their home opener, they ring those stupid cowbells all game in a dome, they played really well at home last season. Would be great for the Yanks to come in make an early statement.

  208. Teixeiramvp April 12th, 2009 at 9:07 pm

    GreenBeret7-He was actually throwing a lot of low pitch count innings today. I really don’t care if they’re coming in in the middle of the inning. Who cares. Their job is to get the outs.
    Buddy-I didn’t think the walk killed us. They should’ve left Veras in to get the last out.
    I like Bruney in the eighth until Melancon’s ready.

  209. Betsy April 12th, 2009 at 9:07 pm

    Also, Joe is not helping Veras any by basically saying – you’re not perfect, you’re coming out; we don’t trust you to get one more out.

  210. Teixeiramvp April 12th, 2009 at 9:08 pm

    m-True. But the moves would’ve baffled me either way, I just wouldn’t have mentioned it.

  211. SJ44 April 12th, 2009 at 9:08 pm

    And when Melancon gets called up, and he will this year, and blows a game (which will happen because he’s HUMAN) the same people screaming today will turn on him.

    Last week, Phil Coke was the “man” according to people in here. Now, he isn’t based on a bad outing.

    Sometimes, bullpens blow games. It happens.

    Since last April, the Yankees have won 92 games and the bullpen has blown THREE games when the Yankees have had leads after 7. One was Mo’s only blown save from last year.

    That means, this corp of “bad” relievers you all are complaining about have blown TWO games since last April when they had leads after 7. One last June and today.

    That’s it. I don’t think that’s bad.

    One last point about Joba. He wasn’t taken out too early. What about “innings cap” do some of you not understand.

    Also, his maximum pitch count today was 100. Managers don’t like to take out guys in the middle of innings when they are that close to their pitch count. That’s why he was pulled, and rightly so.

    The bullpen didn’t get the job done today. It happens. That’s baseball.

    That’s why you tee it up again tomorrow and go after it. That’s how it works.

  212. GreenBeret7 April 12th, 2009 at 9:12 pm

    Teixeiramvp
    April 12th, 2009 at 9:07 pm
    GreenBeret7-He was actually throwing a lot of low pitch count innings today. ***I really don’t care if they’re coming in in the middle of the inning*** . Who cares. Their job is to get the outs.

    ————————————————————

    That’s exactly what your problem is. You don’t care as long they do it how you want it done. That God you’re not in charge of anything important.

  213. Teixeiramvp April 12th, 2009 at 9:13 pm

    SJ44-I never said corps of bad relievers. I thought the wrong releivers were used in the wrong spots at the wrong time, which is Girardi’s fault.
    By the way, Coke and Marte made me look stupid. I was talking about how I didn’t like Marte, and he gets the first two batters. Then I talked about how I loved Coke, and he got nailed.
    As for Melancon, I’ll only turn on him if he either gets really nailed (not like a lone two run bomb in 20 innings , but like 7 runs in five innings) or if he ends up just not being tthat good. If he has an ERA in the twos, I’ll love him.

  214. Jeff NJ April 12th, 2009 at 9:13 pm

    Bottom line is we took the series and we’re ahead of Boston, but it blows to lose a game like this, maybe Joe will gain a glimmer of info from this to help us win a game down the road. That’s the thing about baseball over 162 games, solutions are not always linear.

  215. Teixeiramvp April 12th, 2009 at 9:15 pm

    GreenBeret7-What? How did this become a discussion of my personal philosophy?
    My point is that there shouldn’t be a difference if they’re in in the middle of an inning. It’s still less outs for the bullpen, which is less of a chance to mess up.

  216. Teixeiramvp April 12th, 2009 at 9:15 pm

    Besides, it is there job to get the outs.

  217. Betsy April 12th, 2009 at 9:16 pm

    JeffinNJ, we don’t agree………..do you see a unanimous vote that everyone thinks Joba was pulled too early? It’s classic second guessing.

    TexMVP, how many pens have stars? Were you complaining last year when the pen was just terrific?

  218. Teixeiramvp April 12th, 2009 at 9:16 pm

    For that matter Greenberet7, why insult me at all? I was just having a lively discussion/debate on baseball.
    No need to get nasty.

  219. SJ44 April 12th, 2009 at 9:17 pm

    One’s “beliefs” and “opinions” are meaningless on this issue. Here is why:

    In today’s baseball, every good team manages their young arms under the “Rule of 30″. That is, they graduate their pitchers by 30 innings per year. Whether some of you like it or not, that’s what they do. Every team in baseball does it.

    Tampa is doing the same thing with David Price right now. That’s why he started the year in AAA.

    There is widespread belief in the game that when you overextend young arms, especially young arms with injury histories like Joba, by more than 30 innings a year, you do long term damage to them.

    The game is littered with arms that suffered the fate of not following this policy. Mark Prior being a prominent one.

    In Joba’s case, whether you like it or not, he’s on a strict innings limit this year. Today, he was also on a strict 100 pitch count. Girardi isn’t going to mess with this plan and frankly, there was no reason to mess with it today.

    The game was in the Yankees hands if the bullpen did its job. It didn’t get it done today. That’s baseball.

    Whining about wanting Joba to pitch more innings is a waste of time because they aren’t going to mess with his innings limit this year. Not for a “big” Royals game in April and not for a big Red Sox series in September.

    Its not going to happen. Which is why taking him out today when they did, is the right move. By doing so, you have a chance to keep his innings limit manageable so he can last the season.

    That’s how teams in baseball, at least the successful one’s, manage the arms of their young pitchers these days.

  220. PJH® April 12th, 2009 at 9:17 pm

    Girardi overmanaged this game. Thats why we lost. He made too many changes and completely over thought it. Marte was
    a closer last year. He can get righties out.

    He could have done one of 2 things. Let Marte finish the inning or go to Mariano. I dont want to hear the arguments for Mariano not pitching 1+ innings. He comes in and throws 10 pitches or so game after game. He would have gotten the guy out with a few pitches and then had his typical Mariano 9th. I dont think 4-5 extra pitches really would have made the difference. If he throws too many pitches, worry about that in the 9th.

  221. Nick in SF April 12th, 2009 at 9:17 pm

    Going to the bullpen when Girardi did was the right move.

    Case closed.

  222. Teixeiramvp April 12th, 2009 at 9:17 pm

    Betsy-No, I’m simply saying that if the starter has the opportunity to go deeper no matter how good the pen is he should.

  223. Giuseppe Franco April 12th, 2009 at 9:18 pm

    It’s still less outs for the bullpen, which is less of a chance to mess up.

    ———-

    But more of a chance for the starter to “mess up.”

    How many of you guys would have complained that Girardi left Joba in too long if he started the 7th inning and gave up a long bomb after 3-4 stressful innings?

    The pen had been lights out for the last several days. They just didn’t execute today.

    Move on and go get ‘em tomorrow.

  224. GreenBeret7 April 12th, 2009 at 9:19 pm

    Teixeiramvp
    April 12th, 2009 at 9:15 pm
    GreenBeret7-What? How did this become a discussion of my personal philosophy?
    My point is that there shouldn’t be a difference if they’re in in the middle of an inning. It’s still less outs for the bullpen, which is less of a chance to mess up.

    ————————————————————

    Because, you’re the one that brought up your personal philosophies when you said you didn’t care if they came in the middle of innings.

  225. Betsy April 12th, 2009 at 9:19 pm

    Melancon fans are going to be in for a huge letdown when the kid struggles at one time or another – he may be very talented with incredible make-up, but he hasn’t thrown one pitch in the ML. When he struggles, folks are going to call him overrated and overhyped. Those looking for him to save a bullpen that doesn’t need to be saved are really asking a lot from him. I’m not particularly anxious to see him up here. The Yankees will call him up when he’s ready. I expect he will have good days and bad days, like everyone else.

  226. Teixeiramvp April 12th, 2009 at 9:21 pm

    Nick in SF-I diagree. For why, see previous posts.
    SJ44-Okay, rule of 30. fine. But I keep going back to 88 pitches. Pitch count, which drives me nuts, is generally thought to be more important anyway. And by the 10 pitch count rule, he had 12 more pitches.
    Stop acting like we’re all whining. When they lose, and I thinkthey could have won, I’ll point out why I think they lost, no matter the game.

  227. GreenBeret7 April 12th, 2009 at 9:23 pm

    Teixeiramvp
    April 12th, 2009 at 9:16 pm
    For that matter Greenberet7, why insult me at all? I was just having a lively discussion/debate on baseball.
    No need to get nasty.

    ————————————————————

    Nothing “nasty” to it. You stomp your feet, hold your breath and pout because they didn’t do what you wanted. Are you going to supply a replacement pitcher of Chamberlain’s talents just to get your way?

  228. Teixeiramvp April 12th, 2009 at 9:24 pm

    GreenBeret7-No I didn’t. I gave an opinion on baseball, not my personal philosophy.
    My thought is that less outs is less taxing for the bullpen. I would think that’s just logic, right?
    Franco-I Joba gets a guy in scoring position, I change my tune. But he was effective up to that point.

  229. JackBlack April 12th, 2009 at 9:24 pm

    Tough loss today. We were 1 out away from Mo. Oh well, its on to Tampa. At least Boston lost. I can’t beleive the large number of Red Sox fans in Anaheim today. Where do they all come from? Seems like Sox fans have come out of the walls since 2004.

  230. SJ44 April 12th, 2009 at 9:24 pm

    If one wants to second guess the way he used Bruney and Veras today (flip flop those guys, for example), that’s a legitimate argument. Its the only thing I would have thought about doing differently if I was Girardi today.

    You can’t use Edwar to pitch to Butler because the book on Butler is to throw him heat away in the zone. He kills soft stuff middle-in, which makes Edwar’s changeup less effective to a hitter like Butler.

    You do realize though that if Veras doesn’t walk Butler, we aren’t having this conversation and the game is over.

    As far as Melancon, I’ve watched him pitch for 3 years. My word of caution is RELAX on him.

    He is going to be a guy that will be very good for the Yankees in time. However, the way some of you hype him up, as you have done with Hughes and Coke for example, only allows you great disappointment if they aren’t perfect everytime out. Which, is what you folks want out of your bullpen.

    There is no evidence, other than emotional fan belief, that Mark Melancon would have fared any better than anybody else did today.

    He’s a kid who hasn’t thrown a single inning in the majors yet. Don’t convince yourself he’s the “answer”.

    He may be at some point but, he’s not right now.

  231. DT April 12th, 2009 at 9:25 pm

    Instead of finding a place to lie blame – I’m going to do something irrational.

    I’m giving the KC hitters the credit for a nice two out comeback and moving on.

  232. Yanks22 April 12th, 2009 at 9:26 pm

    The Yanks have 3 RP’s everyone else is hit or miss in the pen.

  233. Teixeiramvp April 12th, 2009 at 9:26 pm

    GreenBeret7-Whaaat? I’m giving opinions on baseball.
    I know I’m getting all puffed up, but it’s realy not that big a deal.
    I haven’t insulted anybody here, yet you compare me to a whiny kid. If you think that, fine. But keep it to yourself.
    If you disagree, focus on dismantling my arguement, not me.

  234. Harry April 12th, 2009 at 9:28 pm

    why didn’t jorge play

  235. GreenBeret7 April 12th, 2009 at 9:28 pm

    All I can say is, I’m glad that Girardi doesn’t pull a Bill Veeck and hand out signs to “manage” the team. He issued signs to fans and when the fans thought they should steal, hit and run, pull pitchers, they held up a sign. That lasted two games.

  236. Betsy April 12th, 2009 at 9:29 pm

    Tex, that’s the thing – Joba is on an innings count. SJ already explained it to you. Innings saved on his arm now are innings we can use later. The pen didn’t get the job done this time and, like any other pen, it will blow another game or three or four. That’s life in the pen and in the majors. You shouldn’t turn on Melancon or anyone unless they are clearly not giving it their all – they’re human.

    SJ, do you think Coke at this point should be a 7th inning/ lefty specialist? I’ve said all along that, although I like him a lot, he still has only (or had) 16 ML innings under his belt plus ST. I think maybe Joe has too much confidence in him – maybe he should get settled in a 7th inning role instead of being thrown to the wolves. It’s a lot to ask of a kid (and I know he’s not a kid technically, but he’s basically a rookie).

  237. Nick in SF April 12th, 2009 at 9:29 pm

    Teixeiramvp, your previous posts were taken into account before my verdict was issued. ;)

    Joba wasn’t being shelled but he wasn’t dominating either. He threw his last pitch of the game as the losing pitcher of record. The fact that he had a chance to win the game was good luck on his part, but he wasn’t coming out again either way.

    A cold, rainy day in April in Joba’s first start of a long innings-limited season? Are you kidding? You wanna argue about Girardi’s moves after that, go ahead, but the game wasn’t lost because Joba was pulled too soon.

  238. Teixeiramvp April 12th, 2009 at 9:29 pm

    Tell you what: I’ll give Melancon a grace period this year. But I am, after all, a Yankee fan. We expect results right?
    Seriously, if he does bad this year, fine. But if he does bad next year too, we may have a problem.
    DT-It’s not so much finding someone to blame as figuring out what went wrong in this game to stop it from happening again.

  239. DT April 12th, 2009 at 9:29 pm

    “You do realize though that if Veras doesn’t walk Butler, we aren’t having this conversation and the game is over.”

    also SJ – if Molina nails the pinch runner Pena (who was 12 feet off the bag and a dead duck) it would have been on to the 9th.

    He didn’t. That’s baseball. C’est La Vie.

  240. SJ44 April 12th, 2009 at 9:29 pm

    You don’t have Mo pitch two innings today. Not after throwing less than 10 innings in the spring, playing in bad conditions, and coming off shoulder surgery. That would be idiotic.

    Tex is MVP, I already explained to you why Joba got pulled after 88 pitches and why managers do it the way they do it.

    Taking him out wasn’t the issue. They didn’t lose the game in the 7th inning. They lost it with 2 outs and nobody on in the 8th inning.

    As far as taking Marte out, Butler crushes lefties. If Girardi left him in there, and Marte spit the bit on Butler, you folks would be screaming at the top of your lungs second guessing that move with the righties he had in the ‘pen available.

    Why is it so hard to understand that you can execute the plan but, the players have to execute it? Most times, and look at the bullpens record since April of 2008, they do so. Today, they didn’t. Its really as simple as that.

    As Guiseppe said, turn the page and move onto the next series.

    BTW, anybody hear any updates on Tex? Curious if there was any mention of his condition in the post-game.

  241. Al from BK April 12th, 2009 at 9:30 pm

    This game sucked on so many levels not only did we lose but Francesser gets to complain for 6 hrs tomorrow.

  242. Betsy April 12th, 2009 at 9:31 pm

    Bodhisattava – thanks for the report! I like that Phil battled and got to work on his full repertoire. He didn’t have a feel for his curve so he had to go to other pitches – that’s a good thing. I’m extremely encouraged by his continued progress.

  243. Teixeiramvp April 12th, 2009 at 9:32 pm

    Greenberet7-Okay, none of us should ever give baseball opinions again because we may be wrong.
    Nick in SF-Cold and rainy, yes, but once again, 88 pitches.
    Betsy-I always thought it was a 100 pitch pitch count. One more time, I’ll say 88.

  244. Teixeiramvp April 12th, 2009 at 9:33 pm

    SJ44-You mentioned an innings count, and maybe it’s true. But isn’t the point of an innings count because theory says that the more innings you throw, the more pitches?
    At 88 pitches, he had 12 left; in other words, if he does well, about one inning. If he allows someone in scoring position, fine. I’d have changed my tune.

  245. Joe I April 12th, 2009 at 9:35 pm

    “This game sucked on so many levels not only did we lose but Francesser gets to complain for 6 hrs tomorrow.”

    He’ll be talking Masters and how his man crush Lefty didn’t win.

  246. Jeff NJ April 12th, 2009 at 9:35 pm

    One comment on the innings cap. Last year the plan was he would relieve for a month or two and then start to keep him under a certain limit and he got hurt so he never got near that number. Sometimes in Joba’s regard, they have over-thought it. I was hoping this would be the year he was treated like an equal but just skipped whenever a 5th starter wasn’t neeeded like yesterday. If he pitched another inning he would still have 143 more innings to pitch this year, you don’t htink Joe could work with that requirement over the next 28 starts? I mean I know it’s second guessing, but I guess I’m just a big Joba fan and think the world of him.

  247. GreenBeret7 April 12th, 2009 at 9:35 pm

    Ewven in the run through the late ’90s, the Yanks didn’t have a set 8th inning guy. It all depended on the batters. Rivera had the only specific inning.

  248. Nick in SF April 12th, 2009 at 9:36 pm

    You can say it 88 times, but that won’t make it right.

  249. GreenBeret7 April 12th, 2009 at 9:37 pm

    Teixeiramvp
    April 12th, 2009 at 9:32 pm
    Greenberet7-Okay, none of us should ever give baseball opinions again because we may be wrong.
    Nick in SF-Cold and rainy, yes, but once again, 88 pitches.
    Betsy-I always thought it was a 100 pitch pitch count. One more time, I’ll say 88.

    ————————————————————

    Read it however you want to read it. Fans only think like managers after the fact. Usually, they think like fans.

  250. m April 12th, 2009 at 9:37 pm

    Don’t know why, but this feels like an abbreviated version of dave.

    (just kidding, dave)

  251. SJ44 April 12th, 2009 at 9:37 pm

    DT,

    Exactly. Please, spare me the “we expect results” garbage.

    Guess what? In baseball, sometimes you kick their butt and other times, you get your butt kicked in a given situation. One’s expectation of “results” is meaningless.

    Betsy,

    That may be Coke’s future role. Right now, Girardi is doing what just about every manager in the game does this early in the season. He is seeing what he’s got among his players.

    It looks to me like he is going to give a bunch of guys different opportunities on a game to game basis and see which guys emerge as “go to” guys.

    That’s what you do in April. Its also important to see how guys react to bad outings.

    One trait a relief pitcher MUST have is a short memory. He can’t dwell on bad outings. How a guy recovers from a bad outing goes a long way toward figuring out what his role will be on the team this year.

    When you hear scouts talk about “makeup” that’s an example of it.

    I think Joe is going to spend the month trying these guys in various situations and see who emerges as guys he can count on.

    In today’s baseball, bullpens, absent the closer, are very fluid things. I think its important not to be set in your ways on how to use guys because its too early in the season to know what you have.

    As Billy Beane says, you spend 1/3 of your season figuring out who you are, 1/3 of your season filling holes, and 1/3 of your season making your run to the playoffs.

    I don’t think the Yankees are going to spend 1/3 of their season figuring out their bullpen. I do however think they will spend the month of April figuring out the roles for the guys, and we will set more of a set rotation in the ‘pen by May.

  252. Teixeiramvp April 12th, 2009 at 9:39 pm

    Nick in SF-What do you mean? He was on an 100 pitch pitch count and he pitched 88.
    GreenBeret7-Of course I think like a fan. I am a fan. That doesn’t mean I have no opinions on the game.

  253. Al from BK April 12th, 2009 at 9:39 pm

    I really hope that Girardi made note that Veras can’t throw strikes in the clutch.

  254. Teixeiramvp April 12th, 2009 at 9:40 pm

    Al from BK-I actually like Veras, but I have noticed this about him. Hopefully he could pull himself together.

  255. m April 12th, 2009 at 9:41 pm

    Don’t know why Girardi hasn’t realized that Veras can’t throw strikes at all.

    We said all spring, Veras was the wild one. Don’t know if he got squeezed or not, but with a one run lead you got to throw strikes.

  256. Betsy April 12th, 2009 at 9:41 pm

    SJ, nothing really new, just this.. I guess they’ll get it checked out by their own doctors tomorrow. I’ll be holding my breath, lol:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04.....f=baseball

    Mark Teixeira missed his second game in a row with a sore left wrist, which did not improve overnight. Trainers told Teixeira to rest. “They told me, ‘Don’t pick up a bat, don’t test it,’ ” Teixeira said. “We’re just going to be smart with it.” Since Teixeira says he feels pain when swinging right-handed, Joe Girardi said he was unlikely to play him Monday against the Tampa Bay left-hander Scott Kazmir. …

  257. yankee fan in tampa April 12th, 2009 at 9:42 pm

    mike will find time to talk about the eight inning and joba.he won’t mention that rasner,ponson giese would of already lost the game.talking about joba in the pen this year is absurd unless we land peavy or halladay, and we won’t

  258. Nick in SF April 12th, 2009 at 9:42 pm

    In this situation, 100 was the ceiling, not the floor. I promise you, at some point this season, Joba will throw more than 100 pitches in a game.

  259. Teixeiramvp April 12th, 2009 at 9:43 pm

    Wow, this is a nightmare situation with Tex. It would really, really, really suck if he were hurt with anything worse than tendinitis.

  260. GreenBeret7 April 12th, 2009 at 9:43 pm

    Al from BK
    April 12th, 2009 at 9:39 pm
    I really hope that Girardi made note that Veras can’t throw strikes in the clutch.

    ————————————————————

    Since he had only walked one before today (and that came in last night’s game), I’d say that was a bit of an exaggeration.

  261. m April 12th, 2009 at 9:43 pm

    We won’t need to land a Peavy or a Halladay because we have Joba!

  262. yankee fan in tampa April 12th, 2009 at 9:43 pm

    we should of landed juan cruz for nothing and a fourth round pick,

  263. Teixeiramvp April 12th, 2009 at 9:44 pm

    Nick in SF-True, but I would try to let him go as many innings as possible within the set pitch count to save the bullpen.

  264. yankee fan in tampa April 12th, 2009 at 9:45 pm

    M,

    totally agree.he was good today and will only get better.

  265. SJ44 April 12th, 2009 at 9:45 pm

    Ok, thanks Betsy.

    I’m looking forward to getting to see the team up close over the next 4 days.

    Work commitments kept me from attending ST this year for the first time in 17 years. That was disappointing.

    I’m looking to spending the next 4 days watching them play in person. Thursday is also my birthday and I’m really looking forward to seeing the new Stadium.

    I haven’t seen it since November so, its going to be cool to see the real finished product with people in it rather than just construction workers.

  266. DT April 12th, 2009 at 9:45 pm

    “DT-It’s not so much finding someone to blame as figuring out what went wrong in this game to stop it from happening again.”

    Teix – you’ll give yourself an ulcer – or gray hair – or both. ;-)

    Sometimes a pitcher makes a perfect pitch and the batter gets a hit. Sometimes he hangs a curve and its a long drive caught at the wall. The KC batters had a good eye to draw the walk and had good swings in their AB’s.

    Until the Yanks find a consistent guy to get to Mo, we will hear the Joba stuff over and over. That is going to take some trial and error with different guys.

    Even when Joba came up in 2007 he wasn’t put in pressure situations right away. They put him in with big leads at first.

    Every one thinks he was the 8th inning stopper. Look it up.
    More times in 2007 he came in the 7th inning than the 8th.
    If he made it thru the 7th – they left him out for the 8th.

    I think most times you’ll see Bruney in the 8th – but the line-up turned over today so the righties were in the 7th – lefties in the 8th.

  267. Teixeiramvp (JobaCyYoung) April 12th, 2009 at 9:46 pm

    Joba is my favorite Yankee, I call myself Texeiramvp to show support for my favorite of the free agent signings. I think that Joba will e a great pitcher and that one day he’ll be our ace.

  268. GreenBeret7 April 12th, 2009 at 9:47 pm

    yankee fan in tampa
    April 12th, 2009 at 9:42 pm
    mike will find time to talk about the eight inning and joba.he won’t mention that rasner,ponson giese would of already lost the game.talking about joba in the pen this year is absurd unless we land peavy or halladay, and we won’t

    ————————————————————

    He also won’t mention that the 8th inning only came about because of the 6 innings that Chamberlain pitched as a starter.

  269. Nick in SF April 12th, 2009 at 9:48 pm

    As many innings as prudent is smarter than as many innings as possible.

  270. Betsy April 12th, 2009 at 9:48 pm

    SJ, that makes a lot of sense……..and if that’s what Joe’s doing, then I like it. I’m not sure I love him pulling Veras after his walk, but on the other hand, Veras shouldn’t have walked a guy with a one run lead. I think Coke said after the game that he takes complete responsibility and that he blew it – if so, good man. He’s a stand-up guy and that goes a long way. What has made Mo so great (in part, at least) is he absolutely has no memory of his failure. He realizes that he’s done the best he good – and that’s all he can do.

    I just won’t trash the pen because they had a bad day. These guys have their flaws, but they also have their assets. We’ll have to live with the former and take advantage of the latter – that’s how it is with pens.

  271. Teixeiramvp (JobaCyYoung) April 12th, 2009 at 9:48 pm

    DT: Arrggh, I guess you’re right. Still, watching the game I thought Girardi could have handled it much better.
    SJ44: Incase I can’t get on on Thursday-Happy early birthday! :-)

  272. yankee fan in tampa April 12th, 2009 at 9:49 pm

    GreenBeret7,

    That was my point.

  273. SJ44 April 12th, 2009 at 9:49 pm

    Veras threw strikes last night. In fact, he struck out Butler, the same guy he walked today.

    If you are the manager, and you have a chance to bring in a guy who struck out the hitter he is facing the night before, why wouldn’t you do it? Seems like a no brainer to me. It just didn’t work out.

  274. GreenBeret7 April 12th, 2009 at 9:49 pm

    yankee fan in tampa
    April 12th, 2009 at 9:43 pm
    we should of landed juan cruz for nothing and a fourth round pick,

    ———————————————————–

    People are complaining about Veras and you’d prefer somebody that walks 5.5 batters every 9 innings. Like Veras, great arm, great stuff, but, can be unpredictable.

  275. Vader April 12th, 2009 at 9:51 pm

    So SJ…will it be SJ45 after Thursday?

  276. Teixeiramvp (JobaCyYoung) April 12th, 2009 at 9:51 pm

    SJ44-I had no problem with putting in Veras, I just think he should have stayed in after the walk.

  277. Teixeiramvp (JobaCyYoung) April 12th, 2009 at 9:52 pm

    If somehow a runner gets in scoring position, then you take Veras out.

  278. Betsy April 12th, 2009 at 9:53 pm

    You’re welcome, SJ and happy birthday! I’m sorry you didn’t get a chance to go to ST this year – given all the new guys and how good this team could be, I’m sure it was especially disappointing. You’re going to see some good pitching matchups, I think……I always look forward to hearing your takes on things because I tend to be very emotional about it. I have a football mentality, lol, and worry about everything.

    I think I’m going to the opener on Thursday as well. My brother-in-law has tickets near the Yankees dugout (I think) and he can’t use them. Unless he has to give them to a client, then I’m going with my father. That’s going to be an all-day thing, given how much there is to see at the Stadium…..

  279. m April 12th, 2009 at 9:53 pm

    lol, Green Beret.

    I was just going to respond to SJ, that Veras may have struck out Butler last night, but he’s the big BB guy in the pen.

    I’ll just keep that thought to myself.

    Actually, Veras really calmed down in ’08 after a very volatile ’07. Let’s hope that Mo can help Veras find his inner Mo.

  280. dan l April 12th, 2009 at 9:53 pm

    I don’t understand why Veras was used in the first place as this was a terrible spot to bring him in. He does not throw first pitch strikes. The Obp and Ops against him when facing his first batter after entering the game are beyond bad at .407 obp and .989 ops last year and for his short career those numbers get worse. It seems like Girardi wanted to have Veras put a runner on base and Veras did just that for him.

  281. bodhisattva April 12th, 2009 at 9:53 pm

    Teixeiramvp
    April 12th, 2009 at 8:55 pm
    What is Gardner’s recurring problem then, bodhisattva?
    =================================

    Already have spoken to this, so here’s the short form:

    He just doesn’t get a good read off the ball when it’s hit straight over his head.
    His legs get moving late, and he sort of jogs, as if he’s determined he can’t get to it, then he starts to run with his glove hand extended, vainly seeking the ball and detracting from his speed – the reason he was supposed to be superior to Cabrera in the first place.

    His great range laterally and speed coming in on the ball is not such an upgrade over Melky – especially when you factor in latter’s arm – that he can get away with giving up extra base hits on balls that should be caught.

    Melky may not be spectacular, but that’s sort of the point; he often doesn’t have to be. He doesn’t have blinding speed, and he doesn’t float to the ball like Bernie could. But he splits the difference admirably to turn in a very competent CF.

    The difficulty of the individual plays of Gardner have had their degree – but it’s actually the tendency that keeps surfacing even more than the result. I don’t really get hung up on results in the strict sense, but patterns that persist – and this one was in evidence last season, in Spring Training, and so far early this season – make you notice.

    I think the reason they strike people as “uncatchable” is because of his ultimate proximity to the ball once it falls. But the point is, his curious paths have rendered them uncatchable.

    The fact that it’s “early” makes you hope that there can be enough of an adjustment that he gives himself at least a chance to make a catch on this type of play. But I don’t forsee the type of player advertised as a “Gold Glove” CF talent – and in the strict rather than political sense of the term.

    The bile for Melky Cabrera on these sites and how incompetent he is stands out in ironic relief against his successors Gardner’s actual miscues; the kind of plays Melky made as a matter of routine:

    http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com.....8;c_id=nyy

    http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com.....8;c_id=nyy

    http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com.....8;c_id=nyy

    http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com.....8;c_id=nyy

    I have a problem with the fact that the guy who won the job is not the guy who appears able to make this kind of generic CF play.

  282. yankee fan in tampa April 12th, 2009 at 9:54 pm

    The game just sucked.total letdown because we came from behind.last years team looked lifeless, it was a nice change to see them rally and take the lead back.I also am not a big fan of veras in 1 or 2 run games.

  283. Teixeiramvp (JobaCyYoung) April 12th, 2009 at 9:55 pm

    Take heart yankee fan in tampa; we did win the series. It’s time to do our real damage in Tampa.

  284. SJ44 April 12th, 2009 at 9:56 pm

    Vader,

    I wish! lol I’d have to count backward to get to 45! lol.

  285. Teixeiramvp (JobaCyYoung) April 12th, 2009 at 9:58 pm

    I really want this series; it’s time to teach Tampa a lesson: we’re not the 08′ Yankees.

  286. yankee fan in tampa April 12th, 2009 at 9:58 pm

    Teixeiramvp (JobaCyYoung,

    i wan’t to win them all,this stuff bothers me so much.good night.

  287. Vader April 12th, 2009 at 9:59 pm

    As SJ said earlier the bullpen you see today will not be the pen use after Memorial Day or sooner.

    If Melancon keeps doing what he has been doing…he will be hard to keep down…4Ks today in 1 and 2/3 innings.

  288. GreenBeret7 April 12th, 2009 at 10:00 pm

    m
    April 12th, 2009 at 9:53 pm
    lol, Green Beret.

    I was just going to respond to SJ, that Veras may have struck out Butler last night, but he’s the big BB guy in the pen.

    I’ll just keep that thought to myself.

    Actually, Veras really calmed down in ‘08 after a very volatile ‘07. Let’s hope that Mo can help Veras find his inner Mo.

    ————————————————————

    It’s always funny to see people complain about the bullpen and use the late ’90s bullpen as an example of the great bullpens, like Mendoza, Nelson and Stanton. They need to go back and look at Nelson’s walk numbers. Very much Veras-like.

  289. Jeff NJ April 12th, 2009 at 10:01 pm

    Wait we’re celebrating birthdays for Thursday while ignoring the real Yankee Girl, Rebecca is celebrating a birthday today. Happy birthday Rebecca if you’re out there!

  290. randy l. April 12th, 2009 at 10:01 pm

    the yankees have 4 good starts in a row. can wang make it 5 in a row and once through the rotation with all good starts? if they do this often , they will be a very good team.

    losses like today are occasionally going to happen , but with these starters this team is going to be very good. my only reservation is injuries to the starters. so far so good.

    and speaking of injuries, with joba, why wouldn’t the yankees want to err on the safe side to keep him healthy? i would be careful with him for the next two to three years.

    look at what’s happened to cole hamels after going to 260 innings last year. that’s just nuts for someone his age .

  291. Teixeiramvp (JobaCyYoung) April 12th, 2009 at 10:02 pm

    the 90′s pen was great.
    In 96′ our superior pen won us the WS.
    Game 4 is won by our pen.
    I’m still a huge Melancon fan. I’m jumping on the Melancon bandwagon!

  292. GreenBeret7 April 12th, 2009 at 10:06 pm

    The 90′s pen was great because some kid named Rivera was pitching 2 innings a game. This pen is better than that pen was. Go back and look at the years that Nelson, Stanton and Mendoza had. The rest was a mixture of hasbenns and kids.

  293. Vader April 12th, 2009 at 10:06 pm

    SJ, if for some reason you’re not on this board on Thursday…have a happy birthday. Lucky you, getting to the New Stadium on opening day for your birthday.

    I am still holding out hope that I will get tix last minute, however I will be there on first Sunday in May…I can’t wait.

    I really like the make-up of this team. I think they will win their fear share of series…which Torre used to always preach.

  294. jake April 12th, 2009 at 10:07 pm

    I think Cashman is going to regret not snagging Juan Cruz at the beginning of spring training when his price tag was soooooo cheap!

    I definitely think we should bring up Melancon fast. I mean he could do exactly what Veras and Coke did today..right? They walked guys and gave up costly hits in a clutch needed situation. veras and coke are 5th and 6th inning guys…not 8th (set-up). Melancon has set up stuff…hell, some scouts say he’s got closer stuff for when Mo Leaves. He had a really nice ST, bring the kid up, maybe a Joba deja vu?

  295. Teixeiramvp (JobaCyYoung) April 12th, 2009 at 10:07 pm

    GreenBeret7-True, but I remember Mo struggling that particular series and our pen being lights out.
    The Mets pen scares me.

  296. yankeelover April 12th, 2009 at 10:08 pm

    I continue to be amazed by the “sky is falling in” laments. A single game does not a season and/or career make.

  297. Teixeiramvp (JobaCyYoung) April 12th, 2009 at 10:09 pm

    jake-I really, really hope so. A second Joba would just be spectacular.

  298. Teixeiramvp (JobaCyYoung) April 12th, 2009 at 10:10 pm

    yankeelover-Don’t know if you were, but if you were referring to me, I just thought Girardi managed the game badly.
    Yanks are going to be a great team this series.

  299. UpState April 12th, 2009 at 10:11 pm

    yankee fan in tampa

    April 12th, 2009 at 9:43 pm
    we should of landed Juan Cruz for nothing and a fourth round pick
    ========================================

    Bingo.

    Unless he had medical issues that were not public – I think we missed a good one here !

  300. Teixeiramvp (JobaCyYoung) April 12th, 2009 at 10:11 pm

    Sorry, this year, not this series.

  301. GreenBeret7 April 12th, 2009 at 10:13 pm

    The only time in the ’90s that Rivera “struggled” in the post season was on a pop fly homer in 1997 to Sandy Alomar.

  302. Vader April 12th, 2009 at 10:13 pm

    Happy Birthday Rebecca

  303. Giuseppe Franco April 12th, 2009 at 10:14 pm

    It’s always funny to see people complain about the bullpen and use the late ‘90s bullpen as an example of the great bullpens, like Mendoza, Nelson and Stanton. They need to go back and look at Nelson’s walk numbers. Very much Veras-like.

    ————

    Exactly. And those who hate the 8th inning by committee also doesn’t realize that the Yanks won three rings with that strategy (Nelson, Stanton, and Mendoza).

    Nelson would pitch the 8th when the lineup had tough right-handers due up and he used Stanton when there were tough lefties due up in that inning.

    They also benefited due to the dominant rotation in those days.

    But people tend to elevate their statuses as dominant relievers because the formula worked and the Yanks won rings.

    The truth of the matter is that none of them were actually dominant but they were good and that was good enough with all the other weapons they had in those days.

    Nelson and Stanton both had issues with walk totals. He was in Torre’s dog house quite a bit because Torre didn’t think he was being aggressive enough and throwing enough strikes.

  304. Teixeiramvp (JobaCyYoung) April 12th, 2009 at 10:15 pm

    GreenBeret7-I don’t think he allowed runs, he just put people on base back in 96′, and Wetteland had to clean up. Which he did.

  305. Giuseppe Franco April 12th, 2009 at 10:17 pm

    I think Cashman is going to regret not snagging Juan Cruz at the beginning of spring training when his price tag was soooooo cheap!

    ————

    Juan Cruz walked more hitters per 9 IP than any Yankee reliever last season and did so in a weaker league.

    Bullpen walk totals in 2008 (per 9IP):

    Mo: 6 BB in 70.2 (0.76 per 9 IP)

    Coke: 2 BB in 14.2 IP (1.2 per 9 IP)

    Farnsworth: 17 BB in 44.1 IP (3.5 per 9 IP)

    Joba: 14 BB in 35 IP (3.6 per 9 IP)

    Marte: 26 BB in 65 IP (3.6 per 9 IP)

    Hawkins: 17 BB in 41.0 IP (3.7 per 9 IP)

    Edwar: 24 BB in 55.1 IP (3.9 per 9 IP)

    Albaladejo: 6 BB in 13.2 IP (4.0 per 9 IP)

    Bruney: 16 BB in 34.1 IP (4.2 per 9 IP)

    Ohlendorf: 19 BB in 40.0 IP (4.3 per 9 IP)

    Veras: 29 BB in 57.2 IP (4.5 per 9 IP)

    Robertson: 15 BB in 30.1 IP (4.5 per 9 IP)

    Juan Cruz: 31 BB in 51.2 IP (a whopping 5.4 per 9 IP)

  306. Giuseppe Franco April 12th, 2009 at 10:19 pm

    Nelson was in Torre’s dog house quite a bit because Torre didn’t think he was being aggressive enough and throwing enough strikes.

  307. BK April 12th, 2009 at 10:20 pm

    I totally agree with Pete on this one. One other thing that fans usually forget. Girardi has more information than we do. His decisions are easy to criticize after the fact. I have total faith in his approach and decisions. He plays by the numbers and statistics. It will all pay off

  308. Teixeiramvp (JobaCyYoung) April 12th, 2009 at 10:21 pm

    From 98′ on, Mo was a lights out reliever in the postseason…or at least until 2001.

  309. Teixeiramvp (JobaCyYoung) April 12th, 2009 at 10:22 pm

    BK-You’re entitled to your opinion, but he was doing stuff that made me scratch my head while watching the game.

  310. Sean Serritella April 12th, 2009 at 10:25 pm

    Tough loss for the Yankees. Only if Veras didn’t walk that batter.

  311. GreenBeret7 April 12th, 2009 at 10:26 pm

    Looks like Glavine is going to have issues. He left in the 2nd inning of a minor league game with shoulder problems. He may be breathing his last.

  312. Harper M April 12th, 2009 at 10:28 pm

    And if Edwar had come in and served one up to Butler, this board would be screaming for Veras

    If Marte stayed in and gave up a HR to Butler (who KILLS lefties), people would have said Joe should have gone to a righty and taken the outs from Marte and not pushed his luck.

    Coke was a Hall of Famer on this blog for months, now Joe brings him in and its the wrong move?

    And if he brought in Albaladejo (who is the flavor of the month these days like Coke was all Spring) and he gave up the lead, people would have killed Joe for using his long man in the 8th inning of a 1 run game despite not pitching in high leverage situations before.

    If he had brought in MO in the 40 degree rain, people would say Joe is panicking and MO is coming off shoulder surgery and he is killing pitchers like he did in Florida.

    Joe made all the right moves today. Stop looking for a scapegoat and accept the fact that it was a bad day, nothing more.

  313. Teixeiramvp (JobaCyYoung) April 12th, 2009 at 10:29 pm

    Glavine should be retired already.

  314. Teixeiramvp (JobaCyYoung) April 12th, 2009 at 10:30 pm

    Harper M-Well, obviously somebody messed up.
    I still think Girardi handled the pitchers wrong.

  315. GreenBeret7 April 12th, 2009 at 10:31 pm

    Makes you wonder if Lincecum is healthy after getting cuffed around again, this time by San Diego….5.1 inning, 10 hits, 3 runs (earned) 3 walks, 5 strikeouts and another home run allowed. Could last year’s workload be catching up to him, on top of that deliver? Does he turn into Jim Bouton, without the funny book?

  316. GreenBeret7 April 12th, 2009 at 10:32 pm

    Actually, it was 4 runs, all earned.

  317. Teixeiramvp (JobaCyYoung) April 12th, 2009 at 10:33 pm

    I’m sure Linececum’s fine. He’s a great pitcher. Slow starts happen.

  318. GreenBeret7 April 12th, 2009 at 10:35 pm

    Lincecum hasn’t pitched long enough to be considered great. Very good, yes. I’ll wait on great.

  319. Teixeiramvp (JobaCyYoung) April 12th, 2009 at 10:36 pm

    GreenBeret7-I love his delivery. Tell you what, if he pulls it together this year then I’ll call him great.

  320. Jonathan April 12th, 2009 at 10:36 pm

    Yeah, Edwar vs. Butler today is not the matchup you want to see.

    Veras was the right move. The real problem was bringing in Coke and not letting Veras try and get out of the jam.

  321. bodhisattva April 12th, 2009 at 10:36 pm

    April 12th, 2009 at 9:53 pm
    Teixeiramvp
    April 12th, 2009 at 8:55 pm
    What is Gardner’s recurring problem then, bodhisattva?
    =============================

    Teixmvp, I answered you at some length, but post was awaiting moderation. I’m not sure if that is because I embedded four links from the Yankees’ site within.

    I can repost w/out links.

  322. Teixeiramvp (JobaCyYoung) April 12th, 2009 at 10:37 pm

    bodhisattva-It’s okay,I don’t need the links. I’ll take your word for it.

  323. bodhisattva April 12th, 2009 at 10:38 pm

    Regarding Brett Gardner’s recurring problem:

    He just doesn’t get a good read off the ball when it’s hit straight over his head.
    His legs get moving late, and he sort of jogs, as if he’s determined he can’t get to it, then he starts to run with his glove hand extended, vainly seeking the ball and detracting from his speed – the reason he was supposed to be superior to Cabrera in the first place.
    His great range laterally and speed coming in on the ball is not such an upgrade over Melky – especially when you factor in latter’s arm – that he can get away with giving up extra base hits on balls that should be caught.

    Melky may not be spectacular, but that’s sort of the point; he often doesn’t have to be. He doesn’t have blinding speed, and he doesn’t float to the ball like Bernie could. But he splits the difference admirably to turn in a very competent CF.

    The difficulty of the individual plays of Gardner have had their degree – but it’s actually the tendency that keeps surfacing even more than the result. I don’t really get hung up on results in the strict sense, but patterns that persist – and this one was in evidence last season, in Spring Training, and so far early this season – make you notice.
    I think the reason they strike people as “uncatchable” is because of his ultimate proximity to the ball once it falls. But the point is, his curious paths have rendered them uncatchable.

    The fact that it’s “early” makes you hope that there can be enough of an adjustment that he gives himself at least a chance to make a catch on this type of play. But I don’t forsee the type of player advertised as a “Gold Glove” CF talent – and in the strict rather than political sense of the term.

    The bile for Melky Cabrera on these sites and how incompetent he is stands out in ironic relief against his successors Gardner’s actual miscues; the kind of plays Melky made as a matter of routine.

  324. bodhisattva April 12th, 2009 at 10:40 pm

    Lol, it’s just that it’s easier to actually see something than to talk about it.

  325. R+ April 12th, 2009 at 10:41 pm

    Bruney is our 8th inning man. Using him in the 7th was the wrong move. Then you have a collection of inferior pitchers in the 8th to try and navigate you through that. You also have one less inning to come back if you lose the lead.

    We have our 8th inning man in Bruney

    Girardi needs to find a way to navigate the 7th inning.

  326. Giuseppe Franco April 12th, 2009 at 10:42 pm

    Didn’t Melky already lose the CF job that was handed to him for two consecutive years?

    We’ve already seen what Melky has to offer. That’s why he’s sitting on the bench.

  327. Teixeiramvp (JobaCyYoung) April 12th, 2009 at 10:42 pm

    I don’t think Melky was so much better; I recall Melky diving a lot unneccessarily.
    As for Gardner, it seems to me like he’s running stuff down then instead of trying to catch it he just kind of slides so it doesn’t go behind him; circuitous routes are a fixable problem, and his potential is indeed gold glove worthy.
    As for Melky? He has the arm, but not the speed.
    Perhaps Gardy will be taken out in late innings for some defense.

  328. Danny April 12th, 2009 at 10:44 pm

    Melancon may not be a savior, but he is certainly a better option than Veras, Edwar, Coke…. right?

  329. Teixeiramvp (JobaCyYoung) April 12th, 2009 at 10:46 pm

    Danny-I think Melancon has great potential.

  330. Boston Dave April 12th, 2009 at 10:47 pm

    “I think Cashman is going to regret not snagging Juan Cruz at the beginning of spring training when his price tag was soooooo cheap!”

    ——————

    Cruz wanted a big contract. He still ended up with a 2yr/$6M contract.

    Not to mention, the bullpen is not an area of need for the Yankees.

    If Cruz was a type-A utility infielder, I might agree with you.

  331. Teixeiramvp (JobaCyYoung) April 12th, 2009 at 10:48 pm

    Gotta go, guys. It’s been fun.

  332. Boston Dave April 12th, 2009 at 10:48 pm

    “Melancon may not be a savior, but he is certainly a better option than Veras, Edwar, Coke…. right?”

    —————–

    possibly. But how does Girardi know what guys like Coke are going to do without giving them a real chance?

    As SJ44 said, Girardi is finding out what he has in the bullpen. You don’t make final decisions after the first week of the season.

    Wait until mid-May, reevaluate, and make any necessary moves.

  333. Code X April 12th, 2009 at 10:49 pm

    Bruney can’t pitch the 8th inning everyday… Joe needs to find other guys to pitch the 8th and get important outs.

    Unfortunately, nobody else is really distinguishing themselves so I can’t blame Joe for rolling the dice and trying to find that guy.

  334. CB April 12th, 2009 at 10:49 pm

    “the yankees have 4 good starts in a row. can wang make it 5 in a row and once through the rotation with all good starts? if they do this often , they will be a very good team”

    I know people are upset after a loss but too many people are missing the forest for the trees.

    I agree completely with Randy. The big story over the past new days is that the team is demonstrating what it could be if the starters stay healthy and simply pitch up to expectations.

    And what that is is very special. If they simply go through the rotation they way they have they are going to be a fantastic team.

    Bad games like this happen. If you want to criticize Girardi ok but that’s not really the core issue. The core issue is that Veras inexplicably walked Butler and Coke just didn’t have it. No big deal.

    I know people have been very excited about Coke and for good reason – he has outstanding stuff and generally excellent command. His wipe out slider/ tailing two seamer combo is dynamic.

    That said it seems to me that people have completely and utterly lost sight of the fact that Coke has basically never been a relief pitcher. For the most part he’s been only a starter in the minors. It was only at the end of last year when he was going past his innings limit did he wind up in the pen.

    Now he’s in the majors and in a completely new role. Either transition is tough – both together are a real challenge. But he’s given every indication that he’s up to it.

    But people really need to remember that this will be his first full season of relieving. Things like toda are going to happen.

  335. Boston Dave April 12th, 2009 at 10:52 pm

    “Lincecum hasn’t pitched long enough to be considered great. Very good, yes. I’ll wait on great.”

    ——————

    true – and maybe if the Giants weren’t hung up on getting him the Cy Young award in a season that had no chance of seeing the playoffs, he’d be at less risk of not reaching that greatness.

  336. johnny d April 12th, 2009 at 10:53 pm

    So what did Beckett say to Mike Soctscia anyway ?

    And it’s a punk move to involve the manager in a brawl anyway

  337. bodhisattva April 12th, 2009 at 10:55 pm

    That would be a decent explanation, if he weren’t running with his arm extended, looking skyward. He seems to make a string of bad decisions on these plays:

    The iniitial hesitation, the resignation that he can’t get to it, and a last minute attempt to get to it.

    Circuitous routes are relatively fixable. Adam Jones didn’t run great routes but has made a great adjustment; he learned. In his case, however, I’d say his overall package would be worth the time investment.

    Having seen Austin Jackson today, the most recent of many times, I’d prefer to go with Melky and his solid, consistent play, and let AJax grow into the successor role for 2010.

    AJax has made strides in every part of his game, and today he demonstrated why he is – right now – a better centerfielder than Gardner. He isn’t as fast, but he makes way better use of the speed he does have. As a hitter, he’s progressed beyond expectation in a single year.

  338. jennifer April 12th, 2009 at 10:58 pm

    Just got home and am watching post game. I have to say Kim was rude and disgusting with Phil Coke. I mean how much did she have to hammer home to him that he made a bad pitch?

    Also Josh Beckett almost drilled Bobby in the head with a pitch. Probably was ticked that he called timeout and threw it near his head. Looked so close to hitting him.

  339. wolf man April 12th, 2009 at 11:00 pm

    santana struck out 13 guys today but lost the game

    ha ha ha ha ha

  340. bodhisattva April 12th, 2009 at 11:02 pm

    right. santana is laughable. sure he is.

  341. Boston Dave April 12th, 2009 at 11:03 pm

    wolf man,

    wasnt his fault. Josh Johnson is the real deal.

    Still, the Mets are going to have to win almost all of Johan’s starts if they’re going to have a chance.

  342. Betsy April 12th, 2009 at 11:05 pm

    TexMVP, no – sorry, you’re wrong. Mo was utterly dominant and he was far better than Wettland. I don’t even think Wettleand was that great – he was better in TX than he was with us. If you asked any manager who they would rather face, 100% would choose Wettland. Tom Kelly said Mo belonged on another planet or something like that……..

  343. m April 12th, 2009 at 11:05 pm

    Anyone know the story with Eric Duncan? Is he the bust or was there a third Duncan in our organization?

    Anyway, they’re trying him in the OF in Scranton and wanted to know if anyone knew the rhyme or reason with that.

    BTW, GB7, Kevin Russo seems to be taking to the leadoff spot like a fish to water.

  344. Boston Dave April 12th, 2009 at 11:06 pm

    Just saw that Milton Bradley left the game with yet another injury. I can’t believe the Cubbies gave him a guaranteed 3 year deal ($26M?). He is never healthy.

  345. UpState April 12th, 2009 at 11:07 pm

    Melky:

    Numerous triples sailed over his head.
    Latter half of 2008 – throws to home closer to first base than the plate.
    Bufuddled baserunner.
    Countless pop-ups to SS.
    Piddley (sp) grounders to 2B.
    Pathetic flailings at outside pitches.
    Bewildered with fastballs.
    Decent hitter on off-speed pitches.
    Never there when they need him.
    Funny and adorable name.

    Luis (Banjo-Hitter) Polonia would be better as the NYY centerfielder instead of the Melkman…..and he wasn’t even a CF’er…..and he’s about 45 years old.

  346. Boston Dave April 12th, 2009 at 11:08 pm

    “From 98’ on, Mo was a lights out reliever in the postseason…or at least until 2001.”

    ———————–

    I’m pretty sure Mo’s postseason stats after 2001 are almost the same as pre-2001. We just seem to remember a couple blown saves and apply that to his overall postseason numbers.

  347. GreenBeret7 April 12th, 2009 at 11:14 pm

    Boston Dave
    April 12th, 2009 at 10:52 pm
    “Lincecum hasn’t pitched long enough to be considered great. Very good, yes. I’ll wait on great.”
    —————————
    true – and maybe if the Giants weren’t hung up on getting him the Cy Young award in a season that had no chance of seeing the playoffs, he’d be at less risk of not reaching that greatness.

    ————————————————————

    You have to hope that a team going nowhere wouldn’t be that foolish, but, I’m afraid they might be. What a pity that would be to lose that talent. His delivery reminds me a lot of a really good young pitcher for the Rangers, back in the ’90s, Roger Pavlik. Great stuff, bad delivery, and they worked him to death without trying to smooth out his delivery. When he went down, they brought in Rick Helling and did the same thing.

  348. Betsy April 12th, 2009 at 11:15 pm

    I just saw the Beckett pitch – I’m sorry, he knew exactly what he was doing. I can’t believe he wasn’t thrown out, yet Yankees pitchers have gotten thrown out for not even hitting batters. When pitchers throw at hitters heads, that’s attempted murder in my book.

    CB, I agree. I know I’ve been very skeptical of this offense (mainly because of problems with RISP), but I saw a lot to like in the last few games. They did a great job, even with a very depleted lineup, battling back against a good pitcher. This team is not complete without Alex and it sure misses Tex (please let it not be serious), but when they are both in the lineup, it’s going to be very good. With our SP, they should score enough. The only concern is whether they can score enough off of other teams’ good pitching (can’t keep wasting chances).

    Coke is going to be very good, but these expectations for him based on 16 innings last year and ST are unfair and now people are killing him. He’s human – he’s going to struggle sometimes. These struggles could have easily been anticipated – he’s basically a rookie.

  349. Edwards April 12th, 2009 at 11:16 pm

    I can’t even imagine what Kazmir is going to do to our lineup tomorrow, especially since I doubt Teix plays.

    So far, we’ve faced pretty bad pitching every game.

    And I pray that Wang bounces back though I don’t have much confidence.

  350. jennifer April 12th, 2009 at 11:17 pm

    Besty- that looked like it just about brushed his helmet. Bobby should have decked him.

  351. Betsy April 12th, 2009 at 11:19 pm

    I wish, Jen – but the Angels got their revenge by winning. On a weekend when the Angels are mourning for their lost young pitcher, Beckett really showed what he is made of, didn’t he?

    What did Kim say to Phil? It doesn’t sound like her, being rude……..

  352. GreenBeret7 April 12th, 2009 at 11:20 pm

    m
    April 12th, 2009 at 11:05 pm
    Anyone know the story with Eric Duncan? Is he the bust or was there a third Duncan in our organization?

    Anyway, they’re trying him in the OF in Scranton and wanted to know if anyone knew the rhyme or reason with that.

    BTW, GB7, Kevin Russo seems to be taking to the leadoff spot like a fish to water.

    ————————————————————

    yep..the same Eric Duncan. Besides making him more useful/versatile, I think they’re trying to ease the stress of bending over and keeping his back healthy.

    Always liked Russo’s bat. Like many of the other kids coming through the sysyem, it’s his defense that’s in need of a lot of work. angelini is still only 20, and, now, he’s starting to hit, but, the defense is just brutal. 4 errors at shortstop anready. Justin Snyder is the same thing….all bat, no glove.

  353. jennifer April 12th, 2009 at 11:21 pm

    Betsy- Don’t recall exactly, don’t have it saved anymore it is probably on YESNETWORK. She just kept hammering that he made a poor pitch and that he should feel like garbage for throwing it.

  354. Mr. Clean April 12th, 2009 at 11:22 pm

    Coke’s velocity isn’t anywhere near what it was last year

    Now he is 88-91, last year he was 92-95. I remember he struck out Drew with a 96 MPH FB during Mussina’s 20th win.

    No excuses for him though, he was facing the bottom of the Royals lineup with hitters we can’t even name. Girardi has to stop using him in high leverage situations.

    Veras needs a couple days off too. Should be interesting to see what Joe does tomorrow if the game is close. Rays have an excellent lineup.

  355. Rosa April 12th, 2009 at 11:53 pm

    UpState

    Agree with you about Melky.

    But that Polonia remark was a low blow. lol

  356. UpState April 13th, 2009 at 12:20 am

    Just trying to lighten things up a bit !

  357. E-gawa April 13th, 2009 at 12:28 am

    It’s a good thing that 8th inning pitcher doesn’t matter, right Pete?

  358. jpb1973 April 13th, 2009 at 7:45 am

    If the Yankees must improve the ‘bridge to Mariano’ they will do so by trading for an experienced reliver instead of trying Melancon/Chamberlain. By the end of June, many teams will be out of playoff contention. Attendance is woeful so far this spring so the teams that are out of contention will look to unload big salaries. I would expect that the Yankees will be able to acquire someone else’s high-priced, experinced close and plug him into the 8th inning role.

    I wouldn’t be too surprised if the Yanks could pick up a top-notch reliever for a package of Jose Veras, Phil Coke and Juan Miranda because they are all relatively cheap (which will be important to some owners).

  359. AD April 13th, 2009 at 11:34 am

    jpb1973 -

    Relax, it was one game, before yesterday, the bullpen was un -hittable, they blew one game. Let’s put things in perspective… Melancon/Robertson/Alby will be a very big part of the team come May 15th

    Now, I believe that there is no way Veras finishes the year in pinstripes, same with edwar, Coke may need to be sent doen for some tuning up in Scranton, but i think he will be ok in the longrun, He had a bad game, but hes got good stuff, he just may need to go down and work at it some more..

    Let’s get Melancon and Robertson a little more seasoning in the minors and have them up here when we really need them. The third game on a rainy day in Kansas City is no way to rate the bullpen and start asking for trades… lets stay the course.

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