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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Progress for A-Rod in Florida

Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Apr 18, 2009 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

This from the AP out of Tampa:

Alex Rodriguez took 75 swings and hit several long homers during his third consecutive day of batting practice in Florida. Rodriguez, expected to rejoin the team by May 15, also took grounders on the infield dirt for the first time and increased the intensity of his running program.

If he’s taking BP and fielding grounders from the dirt, he’s no more than a few days away getting in a game.

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288 Responses to “Progress for A-Rod in Florida”

  1. Scorpio April 18th, 2009 at 10:33 pm

    We need A-Rod back, ASAP.

  2. Kevin S. April 18th, 2009 at 10:33 pm

    So, I’m pretty safe after declaring I’d buy dinner at Gallagher’s if he wasn’t back May 1?

  3. Carl April 18th, 2009 at 10:34 pm

    Great news.

  4. randy l. April 18th, 2009 at 10:35 pm

    http://www.drivelinemechanics......ming-wang/

    nice slow video on wang when he was right. notice the low release point.

  5. jennifer "We want Swisher" April 18th, 2009 at 10:35 pm

    So by Thursday he’ll be in a game, than a week after up?

  6. m April 18th, 2009 at 10:37 pm

    Great news. Where does he go for rehab? Tampa, since it’s right there?

    Hey, Peter, we’re having a debate on who should replace Wang (temporarily) in the rotation.

    Some of us think that Hughes is ready to fly from the nest. What do you think?

  7. Joe April 18th, 2009 at 10:37 pm

    HOW LONG BEFORE EILAND GETS FIRED????

  8. Carl April 18th, 2009 at 10:39 pm

    Single A tampa right?

  9. Teixeiramvp (JobaCyYoung) April 18th, 2009 at 10:40 pm

    m-Why not Hughes? e’s had some good ML experience, and I think it’s time for another shot.

  10. jint51 April 18th, 2009 at 10:40 pm

    this new stadium really stinks… i dont know if i can deal with these homer happy games

  11. Big Joe April 18th, 2009 at 10:45 pm

    Unless ARod can pitch for CMW he’s not what we really need. But I’ll still welcome him back.

  12. 7 UP April 18th, 2009 at 10:45 pm

    Can he pitch?

  13. Doreen - You can tell it's me by all the smileys April 18th, 2009 at 10:45 pm

    randy l -

    Am I looking in the right place? It looked like the release point was behind his head (from that back view). I sure wish someone would post juxtaposed pictures of his release point (not dots) from when he was going well and from now.

    Hughes is also on a pitch count, no? So, he’d be a 6-inning pitcher at best anyway, right?

  14. Scorpio April 18th, 2009 at 10:45 pm

    Girardi said that the next time Hughes comes up he’s staying up, so unless they are shipping Wang outta here…I doubt the first call-up to replace Wang will be Hughes. Just my opinion.

  15. CaptainsCorner April 18th, 2009 at 10:46 pm

    That is great news..Hopefully he can get into a game by the end of next week. Then figure he plays in the minors for about 2 weeks. He should be back maybe for the Tamps series on the 6th.

  16. vtred April 18th, 2009 at 10:46 pm

    A-Rod isn’t going to help the awful pitching. but he can help us win some of these shoot-outs in our new launching pad.

  17. Mark April 18th, 2009 at 10:47 pm

    Carmona is a groundball pitcher and he gave up 2 HRs today too.

  18. PAT M April 18th, 2009 at 10:48 pm

    Great stuff Randy I, It looks like a different pitcher from what we’ve been watching in 09…..Undeniable difference

  19. S.A.--It's a marathon, not a sprint. Calm down. April 18th, 2009 at 10:48 pm

    I hate this mess. :(

  20. Dan 823 April 18th, 2009 at 10:49 pm

    You just have to be practical about it.

    Who do you want on the mound in a game out of the following: Hughes, Kennedy, Aceves, Tomko, Igawa.

    It’s pretty simple. You go with the guy who gives you the best chance to win. We are trying to win this year…. right? Stop with the development nonsense, it’s not like this is Rick Porcello coming from A-ball. Hughes has plenty of ML success.

  21. miggs April 18th, 2009 at 10:49 pm

    The overreactions are priceless.

    DL Wang
    DL Matsui
    DFA Veras
    Send Gardner down
    Trade all our prospects for Roy Halladay
    Put Joba back in the pen

    I’ll tell you what I’d do. I’d skip Wang this time through the rotation. Then let him make his next start, regardless of how his side sessions go. We’ve learned a painful lesson that what he has in the pen is not always what he brings to the mound.

    Depending on that start you either let him remain in the rotation or put him in the bullpen. Those seem to me like the only 2 options. Making up an injury is just stupid. He needs to pitch. That’s how he’s going to recover, by pitching. You can’t send him down so that’s out.

    If he has to be the long man, so be it. Maybe he needs to enter the game when its a blowout without pressure so he can regain some confidence.

    I’d put Hughes in the rotation. Unless he’s getting shelled in AAA he’s the first option. Maybe Aceves.

    The wild card is the fact that so many FA pitchers are still out there. If Wang completely melts down and Hughes is deemed “not ready” which boggles my mind, then you could sign somebody.

    My first choice……

    Pedro Martinez.

  22. m April 18th, 2009 at 10:50 pm

    Doreen,

    Hughes is healthy, but, unfortunately on a IP limit. Doesn’t mean that he can give length (please, lord) in his limited time in the Bronx.

    Anything will be better than the 1-2 innings that Wang is giving.

    I love Wang more than 99% of the people here. But this is no quick fix. You can skip his start, but he’s not going to show up in 10 days and be the Wang of old. I don’t know as much about pitching as randy l (thank goodness!), but I’ve seen enough in the last 3 starts that something is seriously wrong.

    Hughes is the right call.

  23. Scorpio April 18th, 2009 at 10:50 pm

    Of all the things I imagined could go wrong with this team, I never thought it will be ol’ reliable Wang =(

  24. R+ April 18th, 2009 at 10:52 pm

    Tomorrow shouldn’t be about AJ.

    If this team has guts, they will CRUSH Pavano and make it a laugher. About time they start taking advantage of the bandbox, not just the opponent.

  25. C April 18th, 2009 at 10:53 pm

    i think Yankees should bring back Ron Guidry to help Wang. During Guidry 2 year with the yankees wang has won 19 games and he was like a mentor to Wang

  26. Jack Knight April 18th, 2009 at 10:53 pm

    You know what really sucks? The Yankees are trying to turn this season around – and they of course would with or without A-Rod – but A-Rod is going to come back just in time to make it look like he is the hero. Great. Grand. Wonderful.
    NO YELLING ON THE BUS!

  27. pat April 18th, 2009 at 10:53 pm

    Chances are Alex wasn’t getting 19 RBIs today so while it will be good to get him back, the pitching is and always will be the key.

    This week will be 6 weeks so if he’s back within the next 3 weeks, they’ve achieved the target timetable.

  28. Al from BK April 18th, 2009 at 10:53 pm

    I can deal with Wang being terrible however, the bombs being hit to right are something that cannot be fixed. How are we supposed to win games with mostly strikeout/flyball pitchers when a routine pop-up lands in the seats?

  29. Big Joe April 18th, 2009 at 10:54 pm

    Miggs, put down the crackpipe! Pedro will not wear pinstripes.

  30. Jack Knight April 18th, 2009 at 10:54 pm

    Err…turn this season around? What I really mean is get this season going in the right direction. There’s not much to turn around yet.

  31. AJ YANKS April 18th, 2009 at 10:54 pm

    We want to win, Hughes is the only option.

    He is our 6th starter for a reason… right? All Spring there were articles about how he could be many teams #3 starter right now and he is our answer to Buchholz/Price.

    It only makes sense to bring Hughes up.

  32. YankeeJosh April 18th, 2009 at 10:54 pm

    I wonder what guys like Francessa and Schein and Carlin are saying now about Joba to the pen. They insisted we had enough starting pitching and only needed a lockdown 8th inning guy! If Wang isn’t effective it’s even more imperative to keep Joba in the rotation!

  33. randy l. April 18th, 2009 at 10:55 pm

    doreen-

    when he releases the ball he’s more towards sidearmed. not side armed but in that direction. he’s definitely not releasing the ball up high the way he is now.

    the f/x stuff shows this here’s the link for those who haven’t seen it:
    http://riveraveblues.com/wp-co.....oints1.jpg

  34. Doreen - You can tell it's me by all the smileys April 18th, 2009 at 10:55 pm

    m -

    I know Hughes “can” do it. And, yeah, 6 innings is an improvement over 1 or 2. ;)

    I just wanted that when Hughes came up it would be for good. I realize desperate times call for desperate measures. The question, is this really desperate times yet?

    They can skip Wang’s next start; that’s a good thing. After that, I guess you try him again and re-evaluate? Since they can’t just send him down, which I thought they could, it changes how they can deal with this.

  35. pat April 18th, 2009 at 10:56 pm

    Why would Toronto trade Halladay? They’re in 1st place in the division. :wink:

  36. C April 18th, 2009 at 10:57 pm

    if Yankees keep pitching wang he will keep getting killed because he has little to no confidence on the mound that he can get the batter out. the best thing is sent him to the minors like what the phillies did last year to brett myers and let him work on his sinker.

  37. Quilvio Imposter April 18th, 2009 at 10:57 pm

    Why not sign Clemens?

    He had a 4.18 ERA in 2007, which is excellent. #2 starter-like in the AL East. Pitched some big games for us (outduled Schilling in Fenway) and knows how to pitch.

    Give Clemens a call.

  38. Uncle Ellsworth April 18th, 2009 at 10:58 pm

    “If Wang completely melts down” ??

  39. miggs April 18th, 2009 at 10:58 pm

    “I can deal with Wang being terrible however, the bombs being hit to right are something that cannot be fixed. How are we supposed to win games with mostly strikeout/flyball pitchers when a routine pop-up lands in the seats?”

    That’s slightly absurd, wouldn’t you agree? We can’t win in this stadium? Are you serious?

    There aren’t any popups landing in the seats. Why not give it a few more weeks before calling for the stadium to be torn down and rebuilt.

    The wind is stronger this time of year and the air is thinner. I think the ball will carry less in the summer, not more.

    And it works both ways. It blows out for our hitters too, not just the opposition.

    I know that last statement is obvious, but after reading some of the comments today I wonder if that fact is lost on some people.

  40. Pel April 18th, 2009 at 10:59 pm

    STANDINGS AS OF 04/12/08 (12 GAMES):

    AL EAST
    BAL 7-4
    TOR 6-5
    BOS 6-6
    NYY 6-6
    TBR 5-6

    AL CENTRAL
    CHW 6-4
    KCR 6-5
    MIN 6-5
    CLE 4-7
    DET 2-9

    AL WEST
    OAK 8-4
    LAA 6-6
    SEA 6-6
    TEX 5-6

    NL EAST
    FLA 7-4
    NYM 5-5
    PHI 6-6
    ATL 5-6
    WSN 3-9

    NL CENTRAL
    STL 9-3
    MIL 7-4
    CHC 6-5
    CIN 6-6
    PIT 5-6
    HOU 4-8

    NL WEST
    ARI 9-2
    SDP 6-6
    LAD 5-6
    COL 4-7
    SFG 4-8

  41. m April 18th, 2009 at 10:59 pm

    Doreen,

    Remember when we said that Hughes in the Bronx meant that something went seriously wrong? Something is seriously wrong.

    Wang won’t be right for awhile.

    He needs to:

    1. Trust his foot
    2. Get his legs under him
    3. Fix his mechanics
    4. Do it in an actual game.
    5. Do it consistently.

    All before he can get his spot back. In my eyes, he’s lost his spot, because he’s lost his way. It hurts me because I love the Wang.

    But it is what it is.

  42. Big Joe April 18th, 2009 at 10:59 pm

    Yeah sure, call the Rocket. Just give him a shot in the butt and run him out there. Was that a serious suggestion or sarcasm…I hope its the latter.

  43. Trevor April 18th, 2009 at 11:00 pm

    The pitching isn’t really a mess. Only Wang is. I still don’t think the pen will become really good until guys like Veras Edwar are gone. And until they wake up and call up a long man.

    Also Matsui will probably not be much of a help to this team all year. He should be DL’ed. If his knee is bothering him this much and he’s DH then it is going to be an issue all year.
    I don’t think him pinch hitting is going to help much either.
    By DL Matsui. Damon could be become the primary DH. Melky in LF.
    Now this shortens the bench. But maybe Cashman may need to go out and get a bat later on.

    DH Damon
    SS Jeter
    1B Teixiera
    3B Rodriguez
    2B Cano
    C Posada
    RF Swisher
    LF Melky
    CF Gardner

    Rivera
    Bruney
    Melancon
    Coke
    Marte
    Aceves (long man)
    Robertson

  44. PAT M April 18th, 2009 at 11:01 pm

    Randy I, Hie leg kick is about 4-5 inches lower than last season….He uesed to have a high kick, he’s bearly at his waist….Makes you wonder if there is a physical issue….Bottom line, he’s delivering the pitch from a far different arm angle…..

  45. Kernal April 18th, 2009 at 11:01 pm

    The Phillies won a WS in a bandbox

    If our pitchers don’t right themselves though, it’s going to be a long summer. Balls were flying in 30 degree weather against the Cubs and today was just insane.

  46. C April 18th, 2009 at 11:02 pm

    You cant just skip Wang turn and things will be solved he needs to pitch in a live game. They could have a simulated Game where the Lineup hit against wang

  47. YankeeJosh April 18th, 2009 at 11:03 pm

    When Wang makes his next start, the Yankees need to have a long man/caddy on the roster in case he implodes again. You simply can’t kill the bullpen every time Wang starts. So, the Yanks will need Aceves, Hughes or another long man here even if Wang gets another start.

  48. Dave April 18th, 2009 at 11:03 pm

    The pen will be fine when Melancon and Robertson are up.

    Veras, Edwar etc. are on borrowed time. I’d also sent Albie down and bring up a real long man like Tomko. A guy we can throw out there for 7 innings so Edwar doesn’t have to throw 60 pitches.

  49. CB April 18th, 2009 at 11:03 pm

    “How are we supposed to win games with mostly strikeout/flyball pitchers when a routine pop-up lands in the seats?”

    If the new stadium were to be a homerun prone park (and I’m not saying it is – way to early to draw any conclusions) it would actually be a comparative advantage for the yankees his year.

    The yankees, when Wang is right, have an extreme ground ball – strike out staff. Now other staff in the majors will come close to getting as many combined outs via strike outs and ground balls.

    That means it will generally be the other team that give up more fly balls which means that it will generally be the other team that gives up significantly more home runs.

    But again let’s see how the stadium plays out. As people have said until the other stadium is knocked down it’s hard to know how wind will move through the stadium.

  50. jint51 April 18th, 2009 at 11:04 pm

    im really liking this stadium less and less everyday… i mean there is a freaking moat between the legends seats and everyone elses seats… get me a pitchfork!

  51. Uncle Ellsworth April 18th, 2009 at 11:04 pm

    is management going to take any responsibility for this?
    I’ve never seen a pitcher this bad. Shouldn’t the experts know better.

    Let’s throw him out against boston!

  52. Doreen - You can tell it's me by all the smileys April 18th, 2009 at 11:04 pm

    randy l -

    Thanks. So, trying to visualize (from the dots and the video) – this year it’s higher plus it’s farther out there – so could that mean his stride is off, too? Don’t mean to be too dense here.

    I don’t pretend to know what the Yankees will do, but Joba’s already on a pitch count and doesn’t go more than 6 innings. CC is still settling in, it seems. Wang was supposed to match AJ and Pettitte in innings. Hughes can’t do that. The bullpen still gets overexposed with both Hughes and Joba in the rotation. Guaranteed. That’s why I would favor Aceves – he could give you length (of course, provided he is effective). He did well up here last season, and in spite of having a less than stellar spring, he could still do it now.

    And isn’t Pedro holding out for big bucks?????

  53. Uncle Ellsworth April 18th, 2009 at 11:04 pm

    is management going to take any responsibility for this?
    I’ve never seen a pitcher this bad. Shouldn’t the experts know better.

    Let’s throw him out against boston!

  54. Dave April 18th, 2009 at 11:05 pm

    I think a team like the Angels is a better matchup for Wang tan Detroit. Maybe hold him out a little longer. We play the Angels at the end of the month.

  55. C April 18th, 2009 at 11:05 pm

    Edwar is a joke in the ball park he will allow a Hr everytime he comes in

  56. BX 44 April 18th, 2009 at 11:06 pm

    Wang’s problem is mental. Dave Eliand commenting on his great bullpen sessions do nothing for me.

    Is his foot injury still in the back of his mind?

  57. CB April 18th, 2009 at 11:06 pm

    “He uesed to have a high kick, he’s bearly at his waist….Makes you wonder if there is a physical issue….”

    This is part of the reason why I think that it’s hard to simply focus on Wang’s realease point.

    There are multiple things wrong with his mechanics right now. It’s not just the release point issue.

    He’s not repeating his wind up the same way he used to. It’s very possible it’s the alteration in his wind up that’s preventing him from throwing from the same arm slot. Perhaps it’s the leg kick, etc. that making him more prone to throw over the top.

    The release point is the culmination of all of the mechanics that come before it and lead to it.

  58. randy l. April 18th, 2009 at 11:08 pm

    http://riveraveblues.com/wp-co.....oints1.jpg

    the blue dots are a good start last year. the red and blue diamonds are the first bad start this year.

    the numbers are in feet.

    from the left numbers, you can see he was releasing at about 5.9 feet high in 2008 ( blue dots)

    and that he was at about 6.6 feet on release in the 2009 start( red and blue diamonds)

    today he was releasing even higher at about 6.8 feet according to gameday f/x data.

  59. Nick April 18th, 2009 at 11:09 pm

    Wang did well this Spring didn’t he? He had a 3.24 ERA IIRC.

    So how the hell did this happen where he forgot how to pitch?

  60. C April 18th, 2009 at 11:09 pm

    “Why not sign Clemens?

    He had a 4.18 ERA in 2007, which is excellent. #2 starter-like in the AL East. Pitched some big games for us (outduled Schilling in Fenway) and knows how to pitch.

    Give Clemens a call.”

    r u cracking a joke?

  61. Betsy April 18th, 2009 at 11:09 pm

    I’m sorry to do this guys…..

    Miggs, you don’t have any business telling me to shut up. WTH is wrong with you? You’re obsesssed – you want to hate me? Good – I don’t care. I think it’s
    pathetic that you can’t hold your tongue enough to ignore my posts. I don’t know what’s wrong with you, but get help.

    Pete, I’m sorry – but it’s become intolerable. This guy has a personal hatred of me and he’s taken it to the boards. I don’t intend to say anything to him anymore and I’m sorry to lash out here, but enough is enough.

  62. Doreen - You can tell it's me by all the smileys April 18th, 2009 at 11:09 pm

    m -

    Yeah, I do remember we all talked about that. None of us were thinking Wang. :(

    It’s so darn early…..

  63. DT April 18th, 2009 at 11:10 pm

    The bullpen is going to get torched if Wang stays in the rotation.

    You can’t have bullpen guys throwing 50-60 pitches.

    In Tampa after Wang’s meltdown – Albaladejo threw 60, Ramirez 51, Coke 38.

    Today Claggett threw 60, Ramirez 58 and Veras 43.

    Not to mention the added pressure it adds to the next day’s starter. (in each case AJ)

    Wang needs to go to the pen – pitch in blowouts and try to regain his confidence. Hopefully an April/May rain-out will allow his spot to be skipped twice.

  64. randy l. April 18th, 2009 at 11:11 pm

    pat m-

    i did notice how high the leg kick was and how athletic and powerful wang’s pitching motion was in that video.

    i suspect that we will be seeing a lot of new wang video and f/x data on wang in the next few weeks.

  65. miggs April 18th, 2009 at 11:12 pm

    It really has been a tough first couple of weeks for the team.

    Matsui and his knees
    A Rod out
    Nady out for the year
    the Wang mess

    Its tough when 3 of your hitters in the middle of the lineup are out. Top that off with the dismal performance of Wang.

    That’s 4 big pieces to the puzzle not contributing.

    Tough to overcome.

  66. CB April 18th, 2009 at 11:12 pm

    ““He uesed to have a high kick, he’s bearly at his waist….Makes you wonder if there is a physical issue….””

    One other point on this – perhaps he’s unconsciously concerned about landing on that foot with too much force and has altered his leg kick so as to not lift it as much.

    That kind of thing happens after injuries all of the time, especially injuries to the base of the body. Afterwards people tend to favor the injury due to disuse and don’t actively even realize what they are doing.

    There’s a lot going on with him right now.

  67. Doreen - You can tell it's me by all the smileys April 18th, 2009 at 11:12 pm

    DT -

    If Wang is in the bullpen, there won’t be any blowouts. ;)

  68. DT April 18th, 2009 at 11:16 pm

    DT –
    If Wang in the bullpen, there won’t be any blowouts.

    Doreen – maybe once in awhile WE will blow a team out… hard to fathom huh? ;-)

  69. PAT M April 18th, 2009 at 11:18 pm

    CB, I agree that maybe he’s favoring his foot…I just wished that Eiland and Giradi didn’t comment on his health being fine…..It’s apparent that Wang needs some time in Tampa away from all this and start all over….He learned the sinker in a few bullpen sessions, but his mechanics need to be torn down and start over again from the moment he toes the rubber….

  70. miggs April 18th, 2009 at 11:18 pm

    Great point Doreen.

    Maybe if they move him to the pen we have to hope he gets work during a blowout in the Yankees’ favor.

    That would be the best case scenario. He gets moved to the pen and finds his groove when the team is up by 15 runs.

    Anything to give him some confidence. But maybe his mechanics are so bad that won’t work. Maybe he needs to be completely broken down and rebuilt.

    For the good of the team, you have to hope this isn’t the case.

  71. Doreen - You can tell it's me by all the smileys April 18th, 2009 at 11:19 pm

    DT -

    Not if we keep on channeling the jet stream without anyone on base! :lol:

  72. Betsy April 18th, 2009 at 11:21 pm

    DT, you’re right…..and who knows what the lingering effects will be on these guys? Will our pen be utterly exhausted by June? It’s possible…….

    Anyone annoyed that the Indians apparently kept their starters in most of the game?

  73. DT April 18th, 2009 at 11:21 pm

    If the Yanks are stubborn and keep sending Wang out there – hopefully it will be on the road.

    It’s one less inning the bullpen has to pitch! (home team won’t bat in the 9th)

  74. GreenBeret7 April 18th, 2009 at 11:23 pm

    PAT M, are you watching the Detroit/Seattle game? Edwin Jackson is pitching. 7.2 innings, 5 hits, 0 runs, 1 walks, 6 strikeouts. As nasty a slider as I’ve seen at 87-90. Down and away, sharply. 95-98 MPH fastball and a 78 MPH changeup. He’s still throwing 97-98 MPH in the 8th inning. He’s becoming what Verlander should be.

    Taking him out after his only walk. He was nearly untouchable, and has looked good in all three starts.

  75. jennifer "We want Swisher" April 18th, 2009 at 11:23 pm

    From Kepner

    Wang is out of minor-league options, and according to Girardi, there is no way he could be sent to the minors without allowing other teams the chance to claim him. There is no scenario under which Wang could agree to an assignment and bypass the waiver system. If the Yankees try to send him down, they would lose him. It’s that simple.

    So forget about sending him to the minors!

  76. CB April 18th, 2009 at 11:24 pm

    Pat M,

    I agree. I think the underlying issue is that foot. It may simply be him unconsciously not fully “trusting” it the way he needs to.

    To me that is most likely the fundamental issue and his not being able to stride and plant the way he normally would is leading to this screwed up arm slot. I think it’s his base that’s the issue.

    This happens with athletes all the time after injuries. They just wind up favoring the injury in some strange way without even realizing it.

    Happens with players in the NBA all of the time when they have knee injuries. It can take them months to trust the knee enough to cut on even though the knee is “healthy.”

    It’s unfortunate but he really needs to be in extended spring training right now. That’s where he should be. But it simply wasn’t possible to predict this level of disaster.

    It’s also unfortunate that he injured the foot and that prevented him from getting back out on the mound for both the season and winter ball.

    It’s bad now but he’ll figure it out and when he does everything will snap back into place.

    I do think it’s his base that is the root cause and is translating into that altered arm slot.

  77. DT April 18th, 2009 at 11:25 pm

    “Anyone annoyed that the Indians apparently kept their starters in most of the game?”

    more surprised than annoyed. Sizemore had a big grin every time he got on base. Maybe that’s his personality, I dunno.

    the thing with baseball – what goes around comes around.
    Karma baby. :-)

  78. PAT M April 18th, 2009 at 11:26 pm

    GB, I was getting partial updates, but Edwin Jackson is having his breakout season….Man I wish we could have obtained him….Tampa Bay virtually gave him away …..

  79. jennifer "We want Swisher" April 18th, 2009 at 11:27 pm

    I had a big problem with the regulars staying in the game. He only took out 2 regulars. I hope AJ paid close attention.

  80. randy l. April 18th, 2009 at 11:27 pm

    “This is part of the reason why I think that it’s hard to simply focus on Wang’s realease point.
    There are multiple things wrong with his mechanics right now. It’s not just the release point issue.”

    cb-

    you might have a point there. when neil allen taught wang the sinker , he was teaching a very strong in shape pitcher the pitch. i noticed in the video link i provide above that the f/x data farther down had wang at 94.08mph

    Speed (MPH)
    Sinker 94.08
    Slider 85.14
    Change 81.42

    this is a lot more velocity than today when he was 91 ish.
    wang may just not be strong enough.
    wouldn’t that be great if that was all it was.

    that analyst with the video said wang took the ball behind his back( towards first base).
    i suppose if it gets stuck back there over the top is one option trying to catch up. maybe that’s why he’s going up there.

    if it’s just a conditioning issue, he’s going to need to pitch somewhere to build up strength.
    i think we need a phantom injury so he can go down to tampa and then triple a.

    let me think… slip in shower, shoulder aches, or repaired foot just doesn’t feel right.
    he won’t be lying.all pitchers hurt somewhere.

  81. tampayank April 18th, 2009 at 11:28 pm

    “GreenBeret7 April 18th, 2009 at 11:23 pm

    PAT M, are you watching the Detroit/Seattle game? Edwin Jackson is pitching. 7.2 innings, 5 hits, 0 runs, 1 walks, 6 strikeouts. As nasty a slider as I’ve seen at 87-90. Down and away, sharply. 95-98 MPH fastball and a 78 MPH changeup. He’s still throwing 97-98 MPH in the 8th inning. He’s becoming what Verlander should be.

    Taking him out after his only walk. He was nearly untouchable, and has looked good in all three starts.”

    The Rays traded Jackson for Matt Joyce during the winter, thought it was a bad move b/c he’s probably a better #5 than they have now. Jackson has great stuff but didn’t have the mental makeup but definitely has the potential to be a good pitcher.

  82. Trevor April 18th, 2009 at 11:28 pm

    I thought the Indians where trying to run up the score. Most managers take their starters out of the game in blow outs whether you’re up or the other team is.

  83. CB April 18th, 2009 at 11:28 pm

    “Edwin Jackson is pitching. 7.2 innings, 5 hits, 0 runs, 1 walks, 6 strikeouts. As nasty a slider as I’ve seen at 87-90. Down and away, sharply. 95-98 MPH fastball and a 78 MPH changeup. He’s still throwing 97-98 MPH in the 8th inning.”

    Part of the reason why Tampa traded him was that they believed that his success was a product of their defense.

    Last year if you took into account the Tampa defense Jackson was significantly worse than league average.

    All of that assumes however that he wasn’t going to get better.

    They could use Jackson in that pen right now.

  84. DT April 18th, 2009 at 11:30 pm

    DT – Not if we keep on channeling the jet stream without anyone on base!
    ———————————————-

    I still think the Yankees ought to have battery operated fan day. (like bat day, ball day etc..)

    When the opposing team is at bat, everyone in RF raises their little fan and points it toward the batter.

    It is high, It is far, wait.. it’s coming back and Cano is under it. ;-)

  85. Betsy April 18th, 2009 at 11:30 pm

    Is that all, Jen? That’s disgraceful……obviously the Indians manager (Wedge?) just wanted his players to pad their stats. I don’t mean the hitters should go up there and give up their at bats, but really…..

  86. miggs April 18th, 2009 at 11:30 pm

    CB and Pat M great points.

    But if true, that leads to a larger, more important question. Does Eiland realize this? And if he does, why can’t they fix it? If he doesn’t realize it, is that acceptable?

    I would think a guy coming off that injury… as a coach that would be one thing you’re looking for. Compensating for the foot, whether conscious or subconscious. Whether it hurts or not, if he’s not trusting it he’s not going to pitch well.

  87. DT April 18th, 2009 at 11:32 pm

    Pat M – did you see my answer to your question on the last thread?

    “I’m trying to think of a similar situation and see how Cashman dealt with it…I don’t mean Igawa….Rogers, Danny Neagle ??? Any insights…”

    Pat – Coney comes to mind in 2000. He was winless in his first four starts with a 10+ era.
    The worst part is when a pitcher has a history of success – Cone had won 20, two years before.

  88. Betsy April 18th, 2009 at 11:34 pm

    Trevor, that’s the only explanation – pretty classless.

    I don’t even care about Pavano pitching tomorrow – I guess it would be nice to see him get torched, but I don’t think the Yankees have the firepower to do that at this point. I just want a well-pitched game where they win, whether they score 2 or 12 runs off Pavano.

  89. miggs April 18th, 2009 at 11:34 pm

    Sorry but this complaining about the Indians leaving in their regulars sounds like sour grapes. What did you expect them to do?

    Disgraceful? Give me a break.

    Its a 25 man roster. How many bench players do you think they carry? You can’t sub out all your starters, you can’t even sub out most of them. There simply aren’t enough guys on the bench.

    This should be fairly obvious.

    Now go ahead a rip me and call my post a personal attack.
    Complaining is what you do best.

  90. CB April 18th, 2009 at 11:35 pm

    “i think we need a phantom injury so he can go down to tampa and then triple a.”

    randy,

    I agree – I was thinking the velocity issue might be related to his release point but it’s so hard to know.

    The big issue here is that it’s very easy to figure out how problems are linked together but hard to know what the real root cause is.

    For example, your point on arm strength. I could completely see that.

    Say Wang’s arm isn’t quite as strong as it should be. He very well may be unconsciously compensating for that by trying to “get on top” of the ball more and coming more over the top which is ruining his arm slot. Maybe he’s trying to load his scapula more to draw on other muscles?

    I think that’s plausible and your point is a very good one.

    It’s just real tough to dissect. This kind of problem arises all of the time in statistics. Multiple variables are associated with the outcome of interest but aren’t necessarily causal.

    They do need to get him to Tampa. Arm strength a la dice k would be a good way to do so.

  91. jennifer "We want Swisher" April 18th, 2009 at 11:35 pm

    Betsy yep I went to check the box score.

    I agree that they shouldn’t give up ab’s but he was allowing them to pad stats as you said. I think by the 7th or 8th inning they just went station to station. But before that they were taking extra bases when ever possible.

    I noticed most of the Yankees starters were watching it all even though they were out of the game. Don’t think they won’t forget.

  92. Mark D (formerly TGFizeek) April 18th, 2009 at 11:36 pm

    There is only one solution for CMW although it may be a humbling one:
    Have him consult with Carl Pavano tomorrow on injury options so that he can go to Tampa and work this out.

  93. Betsy April 18th, 2009 at 11:36 pm

    CB, didn’t that happen with Phil in 2007? He suffered severe leg injuries and I think he did not fully trust the health of his legs. I believe that August he struggled pretty badly and didn’t have great control……..Unfortunately, what can be done with Wang? They can’t fake an injury and he can’t be sent down. He’s going to have to work out his problems (and cost the team wins and innings from the pen) up here…………

  94. GreenBeret7 April 18th, 2009 at 11:37 pm

    PAT M
    April 18th, 2009 at 11:26 pm
    GB, I was getting partial updates, but Edwin Jackson is having his breakout season….Man I wish we could have obtained him….Tampa Bay virtually gave him away …..

    ————————————————————

    No kidding. It’s difficult to give up on a 25 year old arm like that. It’s not like he hasn’t been successful. He reminds me of Ervin Santana (a little heavier, though)from three years ago. Not quite the control or strikeouts. The Dodgers and Tampa really messed up/retar-ded his developement.

  95. Uncle Ellsworth April 18th, 2009 at 11:39 pm

    I read quotes by Wedge and other Indians – that did not sit well with me – FWIW

    Does anyone else doubt current management’s ability to deal with the Wang situation?

  96. randy l. April 18th, 2009 at 11:40 pm

    cb-

    i’m not making stuff up when i say that neil allen told me that he shortened wang’s stride and that the short stride is a key to the sinker.
    these two facts gives us a clue.

    it means wang was throwing 94-95 with a shorter stride .
    think about that.
    he must have been incredibly strong to do that as a shorter stride reduces velocity.

    maybe wang just isn’t strong enough to throw the sinker allen taught him with the shorter stride.

    if that’s all it is, once he’s in shape to throw 94-95 the arm slot might snap back into place as you said.
    so this means the first step is getting wang strong and up to 94-95.
    we clearly didn’t see that today.

  97. CB April 18th, 2009 at 11:40 pm

    Betsy,

    Very keen observation. You’re exactly right. When Phil pulled his hamstring he admitted afterwards that it took him more than a month to trust the leg completely. That’s why his velocity was down that first month when he returned. He just wasn’t able to drive off his leg as much as he normally would.

    It wasn’t that he wasn’t “healthy” it was just getting back into game level form.

    This happens a lot with athletes. Amare Stoudamire looked horrendous, absolutely horrendous the first part of the season when he came back from microfracture surgery. His knee was “healthy” but part of his issue was not fully trusting his knee.

    I think it’s something like this with wang.

  98. Betsy April 18th, 2009 at 11:41 pm

    Jen, I still have great faith in this team and, after all, what good does it do to get upset and panicky about this? I’m very tempted as a pessimist to just sort of be depressed (injuries, now Wang), but there are over 150 games left and if I don’t believe that the team will be fine, then it will be a long 5 months. Baseball isn’t like football – it’s nice if the players remember this, but being emotional and gung-ho isn’t going to help them. My guess is that they aren’t going to hit much tomorrow (they don’t have a ton of firepower and they leave too many men on base), so they will have to win with pitching. We’ll see…..

  99. miggs April 18th, 2009 at 11:43 pm

    Uncle Ellsworth what did you want the Indians to do?

    Why should those guys lay down? The Yankees deserved the beating they got today. This is major league baseball, not little league.

    The Yankees needed to take their medicine. its part of the game.

    Its not like they were stealing bases or bunting for base hits. They were smacking the ball around. Nothing you can do about that except pitch better.

  100. PAT M April 18th, 2009 at 11:43 pm

    I watched Jackson when he came ( rushed ) up with the Dodgers..He had electric stuff, but he was all over the place and then he got loss with the changes in the GM office….As for Wang, his lower leg kick would mean he comes to the plate too soon, and his arm trails…..I still hold out that there’s an issue with his foot, whether it’s upstairs or it’s still tender….What I don’t understand is how this hasn’t been resolved……Send him to Tampa ( 15 day dl ) and restore his confidence and work getting him back to pre 09 Mechanics….

  101. randy l. April 18th, 2009 at 11:44 pm

    “They can’t fake an injury and he can’t be sent down.”

    betsy-
    sure they can. it’s done all the time.

  102. GreenBeret7 April 18th, 2009 at 11:46 pm

    Damned…watching Fernando Rodney pitching is like watching Veras. All that arm and no clue where it’s going to go.

  103. randy l. April 18th, 2009 at 11:47 pm

    .. and betsy, if they need a real injury , all they have to do is have him pinch run a few times.

  104. DT April 18th, 2009 at 11:47 pm

    If you need advice on faking an injury, you got the best guy to ask in the Cleveland dugout.

  105. Betsy April 18th, 2009 at 11:47 pm

    Thanks, CB! I can imagine what would happen if I broke my foot (or tore a muscle) – I know I would be walking gingerly, afraid of putting any pressure on it. Imagine what Phil went through, thinking that everytime he strode on the mound he was putting his health at risk (and since a power pitcher uses his legs for leverage, maybe his career). Maybe Wang should talk to Bruney – Bruney had the same exact injury and is absolutely fine. I’m sure he had his doubts when he was coming back as well – it’s well and good for Eiland, Joe, etc…….to tell Wang that he’s fine, to have confidence, it’s another thing to hear it from a fellow athlete (peer, especially). Ultimately, Wang is just going to have to put pressure on that foot, enough times for him to know that he’s going to be fine and that he can trust it. He can’t do that up here, though…….

  106. GreenBeret7 April 18th, 2009 at 11:48 pm

    Well, NYY could send him to Tampa on a DL trip, work with him for 3 weeks and put him on a rehab assignment to Tampa, Trenton and Scranton..

  107. CB April 18th, 2009 at 11:49 pm

    randy,

    Again, good thoughts. What you’re saying now seems orders of magnitude more plausible to me than someone teaching wang a new arm slot for no apparent reason.

    It’s a very good hypothesis. Wang’s arm is weaker than it usually is. In turn that’s not only causing a drop in his velocity but is causing him to unconsciously compensate to try to throw at his normal velocity.

    He may sense that he simply can’t generate the same arm speed with his standard mechanics. In turn he’s could very well be striding more aggressively (which as you know is central to generating velocity) and that is messing up his arm slot and the usual sink he gets on the ball.

    I think that’s completely plausible.

    At the same time I think it’s also plausible that he’s unconsciously not trusting his base and that’s changing his lower body mechanics and in turn his release point.

    What I do think is likely is that the root cause here isn’t simply a sudden change in arm slot. There is something more fundamental causing him to change that arm slot. Could be a arm strength, could be his base.

    Either way my sense is that this will only get better with repetitions. To get those reps he needs to be in Tampa.

    BTW – next time David Price comes up take a look at his stride. It is unreal. Just amazing. It is so long. Incredible the amount of lower body extension he gets to generate momentum to the plate while still being able to maintain his balance.

  108. Betsy April 18th, 2009 at 11:50 pm

    Randy, if they can, then they need to do that. I think, unfortunately, that Joe’s optimistic nature is seriously blinding him to reality. I would be pleasantly surprised if they “DL’d” Wang……just because it’s not the vibe I’m getting from them.

  109. Betsy April 18th, 2009 at 11:51 pm

    Very honest quote from Johnny:

    “He’s making it real tough on our bullpen right now,” designated hitter Johnny Damon said. “We have to count on guys in our ‘pen to go seven or eight innings. We have six losses on the year right now, and he’s got three of them. In all three of those games, we’ve been blown out and we’ve had to go to our bullpen, so maybe our bullpen’s not sharp the following days. I don’t know what more to say, but hopefully he can figure it out, because it’d be tough to keep on going like this.”

  110. Uncle Ellsworth April 18th, 2009 at 11:51 pm

    “I read quotes by Wedge and other Indians – that did not sit well with me – FWIW”

    miggs I don’t even know what the Indians did today as far as subbing – I read qoutes by Wedge that sounded like gloating.
    You’re talking about what went on on the field I’m talking about post-game.

  111. CB April 18th, 2009 at 11:54 pm

    “I watched Jackson when he came ( rushed ) up with the Dodgers..”

    I believe Jackson was the only prospect ranked by baseball america as the top pitching prospect in the game to be traded before he completed a full season in the major leagues.

    I looked into that when the Yankees were thinking of trading Hughes for Santana. That’s how rare it is for the any pitching prospect to be traded that early. It’s happened once.

    What the dodgers did to him was so clueless it is hard to get over. Of all the young pitchers who should never have been brought up to the majors so quickly…

  112. Doreen - You can tell it's me by all the smileys April 18th, 2009 at 11:54 pm

    The Yankees are a conservative and close-mouthed bunch. I don’t think they DL Wang until they know what the next step is. But you know, if in a couple of days they come up with something, it wouldn’t be far-fetched for them to announce that there’s been a set back with the foot or that he tweaked his arm overthrowing today.

  113. Trevor April 18th, 2009 at 11:56 pm

    Damon’s right, Wang has single handily caused the Yankees 3 wins in which they had no shot of winning the game.
    What bothers me about Wang and it’s just not this year he’s done it before including the playoff: when his sinker isn’t working he gets lit up like a chrismas tree.
    He doesn’t look like he can fight through it or gut it out like CC or Joba can.

  114. V April 18th, 2009 at 11:56 pm

    One thing’s clear. We certainly hope Wang gets fixed.

  115. V April 18th, 2009 at 11:58 pm

    “What bothers me about Wang and it’s just not this year he’s done it before including the playoff: when his sinker isn’t working he gets lit up like a chrismas tree.
    He doesn’t look like he can fight through it or gut it out like CC or Joba can.”

    Not many pitchers can ‘gut it out’ when their best pitch is missing.

    Check out Pettitte last year when he was hurt – he couldn’t throw his slider any more, and he threw his fastball nearly twice as often. He got lit up several times (not 23 R in 6 IP bad, but bad).

  116. Doreen - You can tell it's me by all the smileys April 19th, 2009 at 12:00 am

    Uncle -

    The quotes in the story on Indians website were pretty mild. No gloating.

    Interesting quote by Choo, though:

    “Usually, [Wang] throws 94-96 [mph],” Choo said. “Today, he was 88-90. He still had good movement with his sinker. But before the game, the hitting coach [Derek Shelton] said to look middle away.”

    Wang threw middle away enough to be put away early, and the Indians kept unloading on Claggett and anybody else the Yankees threw their way. “

  117. Carl April 19th, 2009 at 12:02 am

    http://mlb.mlb.com/media/video.....8;c_id=mlb
    Good video about Wangs struggles. Sorry if this has been posted.

  118. Uncle Ellsworth April 19th, 2009 at 12:03 am

    Its unfair to put all this on Wang.
    It’s clearly mostly Posadas fault

  119. Betsy April 19th, 2009 at 12:03 am

    I found it interesting that Johnny would be that up front about it…….but he’s right and I absolutely expect the other guys to be frustrated, too. They are taken out of games before they start (and the Indians, while good, are not THIS good) and the pen is going to be wiped out. I wonder if the players are frustrated by the management as well – specifically, why no long man? Tomko may stink, but he’ll save the other arms in the pen.

  120. Trevor April 19th, 2009 at 12:04 am

    “Not many pitchers can ‘gut it out’ when their best pitch is missing”

    This is true and it’s also not true. If Wang wants to take the next step and become a great pitcher he needs more then just a sinker. He needs to further develop his secondary pitches.
    His sinker FB becomes a batting practice pitch when he it’s up and he has zero command of it. Maybe if he used his other pitches as something to fall back on he wouldn’t get lit up like he is if his sinker isn’t working.

  121. Doreen - You can tell it's me by all the smileys April 19th, 2009 at 12:08 am

    Carl -

    Thanks for that. That was the epitome of a picture being worth a thousand words. Randy l – that’s exactly what I had been hoping to see.

    I was staying away from any game analysis on this game, because, frankly, who wants to hear it??? :) But this was very worthwhile.

    And if Wang will admit he’s still favoring his foot, voila, instant injury for a legitimate DL-ing.

  122. Patrick April 19th, 2009 at 12:11 am

    I’m looking forward to getting A-rod back and moving Ransom down. Keep Pena or Berroa IMO.

  123. CB April 19th, 2009 at 12:12 am

    “Good video about Wangs struggles. Sorry if this has been posted.”

    That was a terrific video and a very useful analysis. Really recommend everyone take a look.

    You can visibly see how unstable Wang’s base looks right now and how he’s changed the way his weight is distributed.

    Really stark difference simply the way he’s carrying his weight.

    The issue from that video really looks to be his foot. He maybe “healthy” but he’s simply not trusting it to carry his weight.

    In turn he’s shrinking on the mound by hunching over and unable to throw from the same downhill plane.

    That may be why his arm slot has changed.

    Very interesting.

  124. Uncle Ellsworth April 19th, 2009 at 12:13 am

    Doreen fair enough – at first read they did not sit well with me. (Wedge mostly) Our guys “pay attention to their teamamtes at bats” Wang had nothin – you hit him- don’t chalk it up to your crap batters being students.

    I would still like miggs to explain how a comment on post- game is turned into complaining about piling on during game.

  125. Nick in SF in Lake Tahoe April 19th, 2009 at 12:15 am

    I agree with the emerging consensus that no one on the Yankees’ staff told Wang to change his mechanics and his arm slot and release point. I’m glad we could all agree on that. ;)

  126. PAT M April 19th, 2009 at 12:16 am

    Carl, Thanks for finding that…Man he looks like a different pitcher….Why hasn’t anyone in the organization spotted this, I mean he’s been dog meat since Training camp….Randy I was all over his release point over a month ago….Use that multi million dollar video room at the stadium and get him fixed…

  127. Carl April 19th, 2009 at 12:17 am

    Someone forward the video to the Yankees.

  128. question April 19th, 2009 at 12:17 am

    Why does Girardi manage some games like its spring training? He did the same thing last year where he throws away games. A pitcher struggles, and he allows the pitcher to stay in long enough to knock the team out of it. He had numerous chances to lift Wang, especially when it was 4-2 and obvious Wang was tossing batting practice. He did it alot last year with Hughes and Kennedy, leaving them in and allowing them to let the game get out of hand. He did it with Coke the other day too. He must have a lot of confidence in his job. Those losses now add up at the end

  129. RSM April 19th, 2009 at 12:17 am

    Could be his arm slot, his arm strength, his ability to trust his foot, but none of these reasons would explain why he looked good in spring training and the bullpen, but not in a game. I offer another possibility….

    “The Yips”

    Could Wang be “Knoblauch, The Sequel”?

  130. CaptainsCorner April 19th, 2009 at 12:20 am

    Thanks for the video!! Wow he is just a mess all the way around. This is going to take more then 1 week to fix. Maybe with someone who knows there body better it would be easier but it is clear that he does not and he is pretty clueless. Atleast a Pettitte or Sabathia know what the problem is and then try to fix it but he seems to have no idea. Like with this reponse…

    Asked if he had any idea what happened in Saturday’s game, Wang simply shook his head.

    “No,” he said.

  131. big yank fan April 19th, 2009 at 12:21 am

    hes not throwing that hard anymore. He lost a few mph off the fastball which I think makes a big difference

  132. Uncle Ellsworth April 19th, 2009 at 12:21 am

    say something funny Nick – please

  133. CB April 19th, 2009 at 12:22 am

    “Why hasn’t anyone in the organization spotted this, I mean he’s been dog meat since Training camp….”

    Pat,

    I have to guess they’ve seen all of this. It may be a situation where it’s easier for someone to spot than Wang to fix.

    If he doesn’t fully trust the foot he’s not going to trust the foot. That might need more time.

    It’s so obvious when you look at how he’s carrying his weight. From that brief bit of video it does look like it’s his base. It’s that foot and everything else just goes down hill from there. Knee kick, drive to the plate, stride, arm slot.

    If he’s not trusting his foot enough to bear his weight in his wind up I’d have to think that he’s not driving forward to the plate and that might be why his velocity is down.

    He’s simply a mess.

    This is actually good in a way because there’s no reason to think that once he gets more reps and gets used to being on the mound that he won’t fix this.

    But it also suggests that he needs time to figure this out.

    Carl,

    Email that link to pete and ask him to post it on the blog. It’s worth a blog post of it’s own.

  134. pat April 19th, 2009 at 12:23 am

    What Johnny said is true but sometimes I hate when they say it.

    When I hear quotes like that, I remember Jeter telling Wells, we don’t make faces when you give up HRs, don’t make faces when the fielders mess up a play.

    They are all in it together.

  135. Uncle Ellsworth April 19th, 2009 at 12:24 am

    I’m pretty much convinced Randy knows more about Wang’s troubles than the Yankees do.

  136. Doreen - You can tell it's me by all the smileys April 19th, 2009 at 12:25 am

    Uncle -

    I just finished reading an article in a Cleveland paper. Different quotes. More about having fun, getting 2-strike hits, a different vibe than the mlb-website article. I guess players will speak differently with different reporters. (Duh!)

    I would imagine they were “exuberant.” But if you read the quotes with a neutral frame of mind, I don’t think they’re that bad. A little annoying, but that’s because we’re Yankees fans and we wish the game would have never happened. Or we wish it was our team doing the pummeling.

    I have to say initially I thought they should have pulled some regulars, but other than that, if a pitcher throws you a meatball, are you supposed to not hit it because you already have 15 runs, or 18 or 20?

    Just wasn’t the Yankees’ day.

  137. Uncle Ellsworth April 19th, 2009 at 12:26 am

    So Wang needs to get his groove back?
    How did Stella do it?

  138. Carl April 19th, 2009 at 12:27 am

    Uncle Ellsworth he needs a younger man in his life.

  139. russ in tampa April 19th, 2009 at 12:29 am

    wang is auditioning to star in the up coming movie the rise and fall of Barry zito

  140. Nick in SF in Lake Tahoe April 19th, 2009 at 12:29 am

    Something funny? I bet on the Yankees today. :(

  141. tough spot April 19th, 2009 at 12:29 am

    What now? You really cant take him out of the rotation? or can they? Hes not even close. I think Girardi left him in too long. Once he gave up the 4 runs he should have pulled him. Did Joe think he would recover?

  142. CaptainsCorner April 19th, 2009 at 12:30 am

    I think this is great quotes from Eiland after Wang’s last start. It is obvious Wang needs to mature as a pitcher alittle more and learn his body better…

    “He made the adjustment in his side work, he warmed up tremendously, and then in the game, he was back to where he was in Baltimore. He just didn’t take it out there with him.”

    “A lot of things were going through his mind, and he wasn’t trusting himself,” Eiland said. “You’ve got to be mentally stronger than that. You’re in the big leagues; you can’t go around feeling sorry for yourself. I’m not saying that’s what he’s doing, but you’ve got to lace it up a little tighter and get after it.”

  143. wan or igawa? April 19th, 2009 at 12:30 am

    was that Wang or Igawa out there today?

  144. Betsy April 19th, 2009 at 12:30 am

    Do the Yankees have any clue that Wang is on shaky “footing”? I generally trust this organization, but I’m not so sure on this one…

  145. Uncle Ellsworth April 19th, 2009 at 12:32 am

    Doreen “I have to say initially I thought they should have pulled some regulars, but other than that, if a pitcher throws you a meatball, are you supposed to not hit it because you already have 15 runs, or 18 or 20″?

    If you have a bat in your hand you bash away – of course.

    I have no idea how anything I said about my perception of Wedge’s post game attitude can be construed as a complaint about players getting their licks in.

  146. S.A.--It's a marathon, not a sprint. Calm down. April 19th, 2009 at 12:33 am

    Uncle Ellsworth he needs a younger man in his life.

    ========================================

    Oh Uncle E, I think we found an opponent for you to fight under the ONeil banner. ;)

  147. Carl April 19th, 2009 at 12:35 am

    I sent Pete an Email.

  148. S.A.--It's a marathon, not a sprint. Calm down. April 19th, 2009 at 12:37 am

    Oops! Me bad! I thought you meant Uncle E needs a younger man in his life. My apologizes. Fight off.

  149. Uncle Ellsworth April 19th, 2009 at 12:37 am

    Carl
    I think that was meant to be insulting – but it was funny just the same. And inaccurate but that’s that’s what you get when you reference chick flicks.

  150. Bronx Jeers April 19th, 2009 at 12:38 am

    I had similar problems to Wang with my 7:00 to 1:45 riser in wiffle ball. Hasn’t worked in over 20 years.

    Another brilliant career cut short by poor mechanics.

  151. PAT M April 19th, 2009 at 12:38 am

    That was a great breakdown of Wang by Dan Pleasac…Hell the only thing that I noticed from the film that Randy posted was the leg kick….Hell his whole delivery from setup to release is different…

  152. Uncle Ellsworth April 19th, 2009 at 12:39 am

    S.A. Doreen or Carl?

  153. Uncle Ellsworth April 19th, 2009 at 12:41 am

    Good Lord sorry Carl
    I’ve had a couple beers.

  154. Doreen - You can tell it's me by all the smileys April 19th, 2009 at 12:41 am

    Uncle -

    I don’t either, really. :(

    Betsy -

    I’m thinking if MLB-tv has footage, the Yankees must have miles of footage. If the guys on MLB-tv can analyze, I think the Yankees are sitting around doing the same thing.

    But the Yankees are not going to televise their analysis meetings and they have more at stake than tv analysts.

    I know the Yankees are not perfect, but I refuse to believe they’re dumb. I wish I could be fly on the wall sometimes.

  155. Carl April 19th, 2009 at 12:41 am

    I was talking about the movie Uncle. She started dating Taye Diggs who was the younger guy lol

  156. S.A.--It's a marathon, not a sprint. Calm down. April 19th, 2009 at 12:42 am

    I was gonna have you fight Carl. lol. For no good reason apparently.

    I guess we should not promote violence around here.

    I really need new glasses. :P

  157. Uncle Ellsworth April 19th, 2009 at 12:47 am

    Any reason to meet under the Banner is good for me – its not all about about the brawlin’

  158. CB April 19th, 2009 at 12:47 am

    Carl,

    Thanks for posting that link and sending the e-mail.

    Seeing him this year you could tell he simply looked wrong.

    But comparing it side by side like that was eye opening. Plesac’s analysis was also very clear and not blustery.

  159. Carl April 19th, 2009 at 12:50 am

    This is from Pete

    Yeah, I saw that. They’ve told him all that stuff. He’s got to take into the game.

    Thanks for reading,

  160. randy l. April 19th, 2009 at 12:51 am

    pat m -

    you spotted the leg lift earlier from the other video. good job. and carl, that was the cherry on top of the sundae as far as videos go for everyone to see that wang is off. great job too.

    in the video they were describing what is called ” tall and fall” and “dip and drive” . wang use to stay tall and now he’s dipping and diving more.

    an example of a dip and drive guy is tom seaver. tall guys tend to go to tall and fall and shorter guys go to dip and drive.

    so they were going with the still injured or not strong yet theory.

    ok, some insight is developing.

  161. CB April 19th, 2009 at 12:57 am

    “Yeah, I saw that. They’ve told him all that stuff. He’s got to take into the game. ”

    Pete,

    If you’re reading – that video would be useful for fans to see, not for the club to see.

    I don’t think too many of us believe that the club hasn’t spotted all of this. I’m sure they have and Wang is simply not sure enough of his foot to make the necessary adjustments.

    But given how many people are speculating on what’s wrong with Wang – especially all of the talk about this being “mental” (talk which will invariably proliferate in the tabloids and talk radio…) that video would be instructive for people to see.

    Just a thought for a blog post.

  162. randy l. April 19th, 2009 at 1:02 am

    “I agree with the emerging consensus that no one on the Yankees’ staff told Wang to change his mechanics and his arm slot and release point. I’m glad we could all agree on that.”

    nick in sf-

    are we making a breakthrough on the blog? there really are a lot of knowledgeable people on the blog who have a lot of information to put into the mix. for example, carl came out of nowhere with that video that showed clearly some of the things wang is doing that are very different.

    i really encourage everyone to get familiar with the f/x stuff. it’s right on mlb gameday and available to everyone i think. cb chastised me into looking at it and i’m glad he did.

  163. Carl April 19th, 2009 at 1:03 am

    http://mlb.mlb.com/media/video.....id=2601622 Wang

    http://mlb.mlb.com/media/video.....id=2601616 CC

    This is from the 1-0 game when Wang out dueled CC Sabathia. I can’t wait until they get rolling.

  164. V April 19th, 2009 at 1:05 am

    “i really encourage everyone to get familiar with the f/x stuff. it’s right on mlb gameday and available to everyone i think. cb chastised me into looking at it and i’m glad he did.”

    I’m trying to build my own projection system, based on pitch by pitch data. Slow going, due to being exceptionally busy at work, but I have the entire 2008 season in a database, and need to start digging into 2009.

  165. Pel April 19th, 2009 at 1:08 am

    Steve Lombardi asks Greg Rybarczyk of hitrackeronline.com, “what’s the deal with all those home runs?”

    http://waswatching.com/2009/04.....mer-haven/

    Good read.

    Double-edged sword with the dimensions, though.

  166. CB April 19th, 2009 at 1:09 am

    randy,

    Almost forgot. I’ve pasted the link to where you can find real time pitch f/x data from. It’s a great site. The data is literally posted as a game is going on. I look at it all the time.

    Unfortunately, that site – brooksbaseball.net is now the only source of pitch f/x data besides game day. It’s major limitation is that while it posts data on a game by game basis it doesn’t post it in aggregate for each pitcher. So it will show you each individual game a pitcher has thrown but not what his first three starts look like together.

    There was another site run by a fellow named Josh Kalk that had more cumulative data. Josh was really the one who did much of the pioneering work on pitch f/x. But he recently retired from blogging and pulled down a lot of content on his blog. No idea why.

    Invariably, other bloggers will pick this up.

    Also – MLB is now actively laying the foundation for Hit F/X which will create tremendous innovation in our understanding of the hitting process.

    http://www.brooksbaseball.net/pfx/

  167. Yankssss April 19th, 2009 at 1:10 am

    Big Joe April 18th, 2009 at 10:45 pm

    Unless ARod can pitch for CMW he’s not what we really need. But I’ll still welcome him back.

    Are you serious? He’s not an upgrade from the .110 hitter Ransom huh? lol what a dumb statement, seriously.

  168. GreenBeret7 April 19th, 2009 at 1:14 am

    You really can’t blame Wedge for not pulling hit regulars. They weren’t hitting before NY and he must have felt they needed the at bats to work on things. If they were swing at 3-0 pitches, stealing bases and partying in the dugout, then, yeah, that’s an issue.

  169. randy l. April 19th, 2009 at 1:14 am

    v-

    what about narrowing down your focus to wang right now? maybe you could pull out some interesting stuff for the blog.

  170. GreenBeret7 April 19th, 2009 at 1:15 am

    pulling ***his*** regulars

  171. Pel April 19th, 2009 at 1:19 am

    and it’s hittrackeronline.com, btw.

  172. randy l. April 19th, 2009 at 1:21 am

    cb -

    thanks for the f/x link. i have it bookmarked now and will get familiar with it.

  173. Uncle Ellsworth April 19th, 2009 at 1:21 am

    When we pummell Pavano tomorrow all will be well in Yankee land – I hope.
    Good God we need to paste him – not just on a Pavon o level but on a We NEED a Feel good win level. as opposed to a sucky loss

  174. PAT M April 19th, 2009 at 1:26 am

    A very good night here at the LoHud…..

  175. AeroFANatic April 19th, 2009 at 1:28 am

    How soon before Veras, Ramierez, and Albaldejo make way for Robertson, Melancon, Aceves/Tomko?

  176. no.27 April 19th, 2009 at 1:29 am

    I know Wang has been the reason the Yankees have lost every game he’s started, but I’m a little surprised guys are criticizing him so openly. He’s been the Yankees best starter over the last 3 years and he’s going through a the worst stretch in his career right now after coming off a season ending injury.

    Eiland is a pitching coach that has done what for the Yankees? And Damon has had his share of rough patches. Wang is going to get it together and will be an important part of the Yankees run this year. He’s already down on himself, no reason for guys on his team to pile it on.

  177. CB April 19th, 2009 at 1:30 am

    randy,

    start with this wiki he wrote explaining pitch f/x and his tool:

    http://www.sonsofsamhorn.net/w.....hp/Pitchfx

    And ignore that it’s a red sox fan providing this service!

  178. Carl April 19th, 2009 at 1:31 am

    Thanks for the pitch f/x link.

  179. V April 19th, 2009 at 1:32 am

    “what about narrowing down your focus to wang right now? maybe you could pull out some interesting stuff for the blog.”

    My tool’s not even built to that capability yet ;-)

  180. randy l. April 19th, 2009 at 1:34 am

    “A very good night here at the LoHud…..”

    pat m -

    i agree . it was so interesting i think i set a PR for staying up late on the blog.
    but i’m out of here. gotta work in the morning. if i’m late opening, i’ll have to fire myself.

  181. AeroFANatic April 19th, 2009 at 1:36 am

    Closer – Rivera (R)
    8th – Bruney (R)
    Melancon (R)
    Robertson (R)
    Marte (L)
    Coke (L)
    Tomko/Aceves (long)

    I gotta think this will be the bullpen, minus injuries, after May15th. Thoughts?

  182. randy l. April 19th, 2009 at 1:38 am

    cb-

    got that last link . no problem ignoring the red sox aspect of it. i do that all the time here on cape cod.

  183. AROD fan April 19th, 2009 at 1:44 am

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    Second, I find it strange that Girardi and Eiland have been so adamant that Wang doesn’t have an injury, and in effect making it now impossible for them to make up an injury to send him down. I frankly don’t care one way or another, but I wonder why they are choosing to act in this particular manner. Furthermore, it wouldn’t even be a totally made up injury since he really is obviously still recovering from a previous injury.

    Third, I”m also wondering why they did’nt leave Wang in today to pitch 100 pitches. You cannot tell me that they actually thought Clagett was goign to give them a chance to win this game, or even that he was the answer to their long relief problem. So why didn’t they just let Wang work his troubles out? (and not waste all their relief pitching?) What were they afraid of? An injury?

    Fourth, Re: starters staying in blowouts. I sometimes get annoyed when Girardi takes the starters out it seems the minute they are losing. I understand he has a lot of old guys that need rest and young guys that need playing time but sometimes I think he takes the starters out too soon. Cleveland doesn’t have this same situation the Yankees do in terms of a roster full of old guys needing rest/young guys… their team is set and their players can play a whole game, so I have no problem with that.

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