Wang’s not hurt
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- April
- 18
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Just got back up from the clubhouse. Joe Girardi, pitching coach Dave Eiland and Chien-Ming Wang all confirmed that Wang isn’t injured. He’s just struggling.
Giving up 23 earned runs in six innings over three starts is beyond struggling, of course. It’s reason to consider a demotion. That, though, is not possible according to Girardi. A team cannot send a player to the minors unless they have options or the player agrees and has at least five years of service. Wang has no options and hasn’t been in the majors long enough.
Girardi did say that the Yankees will consider skipping Wang’s next start, which is scheduled to be Friday in Boston. The day off on Thursday would enable that.
Amazingly, all three were rather optimistic Wang would find his way out of this inexplicable rut. Eiland even had a couple of veins popping out of his neck when he repeated “he will be fine” for the third time during a five-minute interview session.
What was most shocking was Eiland saying: “He actually threw the ball better today.”
Wang doesn’t speak English well, so his barely-audible interview was filled with nods and two-word responses. He chalked up the start of that inning to the weak grounder Travis Hafner hit on a good sinker.
“Mostly, I kept my sinker down,” Wang said through a translator. “When I left it up, they hit them hard.
“I’ll just have to keep working. That’s all I can do.”
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on Saturday, April 18th, 2009 at 8:29 pm by Kevin Devaney Jr..
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Chad Jennings
Sam Borden
Josh Thomson
if they start Wang again in the next 10 days, Girardi needs to be shipped to Scranton, you don’t just throw away games
I hate to say this but perhaps this is the beginning of a bad year/off year for Wang? Of course he can turn it around. But he’s never had a bad year. And if you’ve been watching baseball long enough we know everyone eventually has an off year at some point in their career.
Again it’s way early but something to consider.
Wang’s next start would be Tues Apr 28th at Detroit if they do indeed skip him which they will do. I wonder who gets called up for Claggett tomorrow?
Wang must be taking coaching from Ian Kennedy on how to conduct post game interviews. Wang showed no heart on the mound today and that’s the bottom line – What a disgrace!
“the stadium is literally next door. the ball didn’t go flying in one direction in the old stadium. Are there some magical ghosts pushing the ball in the new? no. like many people have said, the “jet streams” didn’t seem to bother carmona, cc, or joba. And i bet tomorrow it won’t bother burnett either”
bullsh*t. Anything off the bat, looks like it’s ready to leave the park. If you watched today’s game (and any of the others), you should have noticed this
tampayank- What part of they can’t send him down don’t you understand. He needs to give his permission. Also Joe cannot make these decisions on his own. He can’t say in his post game we are dl’ing without talking to his GM first.
On the radio postgame Susan said she got the feeling that they would skip Wang. They need a 5th starter April 30th.
Well, if everyone is saying he’s not injured, then it makes it kind of hard to put him on the DL. Which means, he stays on the roster (no way he clears waivers to get sent down, somebody will take him) and they skip only one start. Which also means, that Joe and Dave Eiland feel very strongly that this is something they can fix over that time period.
I really hope they’re right. Roster spots are precious, and right now Wanger isn’t doing the job.
I do think Wang was a bit better today — relatively speaking, compared to his previous starts. Not nearly good enough, obviously. The first inning was ok. He lost his mechanics in the second inning and the ball was up.
No long reliever though — that was a bad decision at the end of ST. They need to find a way to get Tomko on the roster.
Skip his start and move everyone up. If and when he comes back, he slots behind Andy. I know this is a ‘tarded idea, but AJ needs to be toward the front of the rotation, not in the middle of it. And certainly not behind Hughes, Aceves, or IPK.
The team’s not going to be able to get any traction going with the pitching messed up.
Put Wang in the bullpen, and let him get confidence one inning at a time. Baby steps at this point.
I can read and I know they can’t send him down, it’s something called ’skipping a start’ or the Matsuzaka ‘arm fatigue’ DL stint….all I’m saying is if Wang is starting in Boston on Friday, Girardi’s judgement needs to be questioned….
Vinny is right and if that is the case…I don’t know if they can fix something like that.
It is not as if you can put a tarp up in the batters eye.
Small observation, is it me or does Gardner look like he takes bad routes on balls or get bad jumps…he should have that ball he dropped.
All in all it was a game to forget and I am sure Wang will not see Boston. At least in Detroit they ball will not be flying out of the park.
Let’s hope Wang figures it out…if not haope he accepts a demotion for the better of the team and being able to get himself straightened out without the pressure of winning major league games.
What purpose does it serve to moan about the Stadium, and whether balls fly out of it? It’s not changing, at least not during this season. So get used to it.
There’s only one way to have visiting players hit fewer dingers. Have better pitching. Only one team scored over 20 today. It was the team with the better pitching.
Mel:
It’s a 5 man rotation. Whoever the pitcher is that day is the front man. Only time 1-5 makes a difference is in the beginning of the season and the playoffs.
Wang threw better today?! That’s the scariest thing I have ever heard Mr. Eiland!
Skip him and I hope someone can fix him.
I miss the old Wang.
if that line doesnt show that Eiland is a worthless pig, i dont know what will.
Wow. Just wow.
This is extremely discouraging. After reading the analysis from randy and CB it is really troubling that Wang and Eiland thinks he did any better this outing. And the excuse that a little dribbler down the line opened the flood gates to the tune of 8 earned runs in one inning is laughable.
I am really hoping that Wang gets skipped next time around and we call up Hughes/Kennedy/Aceves to take his start. I mean, how long can we keep running him out there? Every time out is a guaranteed loss and bullpen explosion. I really really want Wang to get his stuff together but the team can’t survive 1 ip 8 er every fifth day.
I think they will definitely skip his next start since they have an off day. But that still doesn’t help in “fixing” him. There is only so much Eiland can do. He has worked with him in the bullpen after his last 2 bad starts, he threw batting practice on the field..that didn’t help. If Eiland says he looks good in the bullpen but he can’t continue it during a game what else can Eiland do for him? Nothing. He needs to know his mechanics and figure it out. He is not 15 years old or a rookie he needs to mature and not seem so helpless. Eiland is not his father where he needs to sit him on his lap and move his arm for him.
Steve B,
I saw your comment in the last thread. thanks.
Dave Eiland – You’re joking, right? Wang was horrible. For a Major League pitcher, he was simply awful! Everything was up. His sinker had no downward movement, just like his first two starts. He has noi secondary pitches to rely on – at least to get MLB hitters out. Everything was up and in the middle of the plate, not unlike a Single A hurler.
Cashman needs to “create an injury” for Wang and send him to Tampa for some instruction.
Not only is he putting the team in impossible situations, but he is putting stain on the bullpen arms.
“And the excuse that a little dribbler down the line opened the flood gates to the tune of 8 earned runs in one inning is laughable.”
Last 9 batters Wang faced were 8 for 9. That has nothing to do with a dribbler. His location wasn’t even all that good in the 1st inning.
That said, I think Eiland and Girardi are assuming this public stance for Wang’s benefit. In private, I imagine they will be talking with Wang about being skipped his next start and perhaps beyond while they try to work out his issues.
Also Girardi told Suzyn that he is not convinced that the stadium is playing small he thinks it just might be terrible pitching. It is probably 50-50 but 13 homeruns in 2 days is a joke and it isn’t even summer yet.
He need to go to the bullpen as the long man. Let Wang get pounded cleaning up someone else’s mess. Seems to me he’s had the benefit of not having to stick around for his mess.
Wow he got hit hard. The sinker is not sinking and it was getting smacked.
you know whats most sad, is that nobody thinks he can get any better eventually. the red sox have a few bad starts from a starter and its’ “he’ll turn it around”. wang was a good pitcher, top 15 in the league at one point, he just needs time to turn it around, otherwise, we’ve even lost all trade value for him.
Just when we finally go out and buy pitching, our pitching from within collapses. maybe he’ll go down to the minors and work with the pitching cocach down there and become good again, because this worthless rat, Dave Eiland, is a fat pig not capable of anything
Joe from Long Island — All due respect but to say that the ball isn’t flying out to right field at a pretty high rate is pretty funny. Maybe it’s just much ado about a small sample size but
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=4080195
“With the way the wind has been the last couple of days, right field is a joke,” one official said. “I would say at least three or four home runs in this series would be routine outs in nearly every park.”
“There have been five games played in new Yankee Stadium, including two exhibitions against the Chicago Cubs, and so far there have been 25 homer” — That’s a lot no matter who you are.
Can we get a real pitching coach?
“Last 9 batters Wang faced were 8 for 9. That has nothing to do with a dribbler. His location wasn’t even all that good in the 1st inning.”
lol exactly that’s my point
If Wang can’t pitch from the stretch he is done for. There is something clearly wrong with his mechanics as randy and CB have convinced me of.
our loser manager wont send our players to the dl for no reason, the way bill belichick lies about injuries and the way the red sox create fake injuries every time a player struggles.
Wang did pitch better today, but being less dreadful isn’t much of an accomplishment. They’re all stuck in this optimistic-denial mindset. Maybe they don’t have much faith in the alternatives at AAA. It’s pretty clear his mechanics are in ruins. He can’t consistently get his arm over his body because his stride is too long. The rotation isn’t the place for straightening him out.
What?!?!?
Fake an injury and send him down!! Let him figure it out in the minors.. Why do it up here? What exactly is Girardi thinking?
wangs stuff was bad right from the start. go back and watch his first inning he got away with a lot of bad pitches up in the zone. he kept a few balls down but not many. i was listening to the game and susan said that all the broadcasters who played that she has talked to said that he looks hurt. if he makes his next start whether its against boston or not they are making a big mistake. obviously working during the week didn’t help. he needs time work on mechanics and confidence in game situations. he hasnt looked good at all this year even during spring training.
Great! So good to hear that the 23 earned runs were due to him feeling great and throwing better.
Aces struggling all over (’cept Santana). Look at Beckett and Kazmir this evening.
Wang pitched like a crack whore today.
Wang is finished. JHust forget about him. Pitching is spooky. There have been countless pitchers that have put together 2 or three great years and then all of a sudden….BOOM! All we can hope for is to trade him to a team that still believes he can be fixed.
A few more starts like this and the entire bullpen will need an overhaul. Wang’s next start must be skipped. If he’s not injured physically then it’s clearly a mental thing – can’t he go on the DL for “head” problems. The is a plethora of arms in AAA and AA; bring somebody up. What’s the use of winning championships at AAA if the parent team is getting hammered. Let Wang play the mop-up role for a while. maybe he’s “rediscover” his mechanics in a 3 or 4 inning long relief effort. The side-session plan was an obvious bust.
moreover, the red sox give up runs and they go out and hit batters and get applauded by the media for it. our losers just take it and dont dole out any punishment.
red sox like patriots, lie cheat and steal to win games, and our losers play the standup way and lose like men. it’s a shame, we should play dirty like them and maybe well win
I say we promote the entire triple A team and see what they can do.
Wow, we’re stuck with Wang until he either improves drastically or implodes to the point where you eat x amount of money and have no choice but to release him.
The latter is at least five or even more starts away. Hopefully it could be avoided and the former comes soon.
If I’m Girardi, I absolutely skip Wang vs. Boston.
Tomorrow A.J. better brush somebody off for Cleveland not taking out their starters like they did.
I guess this offically ends the: Is Wang a staff ACE argument.
Other teams are salivating for Wang right now.
“our losers just take it and dont dole out any punishment”
Surely, you jest. Wang took preemptive action, firing one towards DaRosa’s head in the first inning, in advance of the Tribe shredding him up in the 2nd.
“Well, if everyone is saying he’s not injured, then it makes it kind of hard to put him on the DL. ”
joe from long island-
i think if he has to get a “tired arm” like matsuzaka did when the red sox put him on the disabled list, that’s what they’ll do. he really needs to go down to tampa.
you’ve followed baseball a long time , can you ever remember a yankee getting hit this hard? i can’t. you have to be really good to give up up 23 earned runs in six innings over three starts because a bad pitcher would never be left in there that long
Jbomb-Nah, if Wang is lights out the rest of the year and next year, the arguement can be made.
Anyway, we have an ace, we don’t need him to be one.
Steve B — Beckett doing his best Joba Chamberlain impersonation. 98 pitches through 5 and 4 earned runs. 5 k’s though!
I can’t believe we’re stuck with this guy now. What a stupid role. Even if he wanted to go the minors, he can’t.WTF?
“Other teams are salivating for Wang right now.”
Wondering whether this could have been somehow worded better.
Jbomb-If they have to, they’ll have Wang fake an injury and get him down to Tampa. “Arm fatigue” may work.
I still remember when Tex hit that HR and we were up 2-0. Good times.
Feels like that happened months ago.
Pound Pavano tomorrow, skip Wang. We will survive.
“I guess this offically ends the: Is Wang a staff ACE argument.’
No it doesn’t. If Wang doesn’t get injured last year, he wouldn’t be having these kinds of starts.
TEXEIRAMVP. Maybe but I will be happy if he can get back to the form of a number 5 guy, right now.
Steve B,
you have to be joking. furthermore, i dont want any of our good pitchers or relief pitchers or even wang that might get it back one day, i wanted Claggett to pitch the rest of the game and drill one of those loser indians who couldnt bother to win 1 more game to go to the world sereis against the red sox. this bum team left their guys in and laughed at us and that loser claggett didnt do anything, he should be booted off the team bus back to the hotel while the bus is moving and thrown in front of a semi, i hope claggett rots in the depths of Single A for the rest of his career. Clay bucholz would know to drill somebody as would Daniel bard
The sun and shadows are different in April as opposed to October when the afternoon shadows became famous….What a schmuck….The open Catherdral arches are the reason I believe….In bothe Yankee Stadium I & II they had vent slats that deflected the wind……Seems to me that every season, the bullseye on the Yankees gets a little bigger…
Hope so TEX
The game totals aside, the most disappointing part of today’s games was the number of at bats that guys like Damon, Swisher, Posada, Teixeira Cano and Gardner gave away. Cabrera, Matsui and even Ransom tried to accomplish something. Pena, too, though he was eaten up a couple of times. Couldn’t tell much from Jeter’s two at bats, but, not that impressed.
Marte seemed to be in the give-up mode.
S.A.–It’s a marathon, not a sprint. Calm down.: We’ll do fine. No worries. Wang’ll get himself fixed, and if he doesn’t have him get a phantom injury and bring up Hughes while Wang gets all fixed up. We skip Wang vs. Boston and sweep the Sox, and just like that we’re in the drivers’ seat (not counting Toronto and Baltimore).
It’s amazing how quickly everybody forgets that we’re actually ahead of the BoSox and Rays right now.
“Steve B,
you have to be joking.”
I was in fact.
It’s not ultimately Girardi or Eiland’s decistion to make with Wang’s status. It will be Cashman based on the input of his manager and the pitching coach.
Please do not start Wang against Boston. I don’t want to see his ERA go over 100.00
i wonder if grady less sizemore realizes he was one win away from a world series and decided it was more important to let the red sox win, or does he consider todays win the best of his career. im going with the latter, i’d like to take a shovel and just whale on that baby-faced loser.
Jbomb-I think of the “fake an injury” thing as a last resort. You try everything you can to get Wang fixed w/o having to send him to the minors/Tampa.
The 2 stadiums side by side has to be creating a wind tunnel.
The old one will be down this summer so they’ll know if that’s the issue or if they need to tweak something structurally in the off season.
A little humidity will help keep balls in the park but not much they can do about it now except strike out the opposition or keep the ball on the ground.
Expect to have lots of lefties throwing against the Yanks this year if teams think the ball is sailing to right. That makes Alex coming back healthy that much more important.
Speaking of which, sounds like he’s made some good progress in less than a week:
“Yankees 3B Alex Rodriguez (right hip surgery) took 75 swings and hit several long homers during his third consecutive day of batting practice in Florida. Rodriguez, expected to rejoin the team by May 15, also took grounders on the infield dirt for the first time and increased the intensity of his running program. …”
http://www.google.com/hostedne.....QD97L6KBG0
Sure, they can keep on saying Wang is fine, but the matter of the fact is, Wang’s velocity is down to 89-90 (from 94-96 a year ago) and his control has been terrible. His sinker is not going down and his slider is flat. So basically he lost movement and velocity on his sinker, and his secondary weapon, the slider, is doing no good.
All of this points to an injury, and the fact that Joe G. and his crew are saying he’s fine is a bit odd. Since Joe G. has been known to lie to the media about injuries, I think there’s a pretty good chance Wang is still injured. Eventually the truth will come out. I just hope we don’t get to watch Wang friday in Boston, cause that would be ugly.
The funny part is Nady could have pitched better today than the Wanger! Wang will turn it around because he is a very good pitcher. A lot happens when when a player starts thinking about things. We normally call it pressing or aiming. It is quite natural to to over analyze oneself and have things really go awry. A lot of this mess would not be so damaging if the team had a long man in the bullpen. (Tomko or Acevedes or Geise) I guess the stubborn control freak Girardi was just going to will it away!
Let’s rally behind AJ tomorrow! A loss is still a loss. All of them hurt. Some leave a lasting bad taste. Hopefully the energy of this loss can be redirected to make this team more focused & the Managers a bit more capable. I’d like to see Eric Duncan maning 3B till ARod gets back.
pat-I don’t believe this wind tunnel stuff. We’ve had three games, five counting exhibitions, and lots of HR’s were hit. But still, five games? I think it’s just bad pitching, this wind tunnel thing is dubious. How the heck is a wind tunel made to work consistently like it supposedly does anyway?
Hughes in? Wang long man?
Geise has gone to the Athletics.
How about getting Giambi for the bench next year? Even in limited action I bet he could hit 20 homeruns in this ballpark.
GB, I was blacked out from the ( Fox and it’s bs )…Blowouts are tough, but it’s also a shame that guys mail it in….Those are the games that you try to stat your way through the blowout…Those wasted ab’s will cost you a batting title or even hitting .300….Cano I think will have a shot at the batting Title this season…Come late Sept you wonder if he’ll be wishing he had those ab’s back…..That being said, man it’s hard when you’re getting your tail whipped to stay focused….
“If they have to, they’ll have Wang fake an injury and get him down to Tampa. “Arm fatigue” may work.”
I know I’ve got “arm fatigue” from throwing things at the TV for two innings, and I didn’t do that much more throwing than Wang did.
sunny615-I like that idea, except that Wang can’t get anybody out right now. If he gets to the point where he’s an effective long man, he’ll be a starter again.
i think what eiland should have said was that the rate that wang was getting worse was slowing down.
i’ve learned that linguistic nuance from watching the financial news this past winter.
all kidding aside he did throw some better sinkers early in the second inning, but his release point was still off in both innings.
its not just one loss, it’s a symptom of the problem with the team and rather than cashman or girardi doing something proactively now to fix the problem, well wait til the trade deadline to trade for bobby abreu or pudge rodriguez or wait too late to fire dave eiland. the fact that dave eiland doesnt even come out of the dugout until a run is scored is sickening.
Cano’s winning the batting title, 350 avg., calling it.
Tomorrow’s headline “Choo pounds Wang.”
gerodkgies — I don’t know about beating him with a shovel, I’d settle for getting him to play center for the Yanks.
gerodkgies-The problem with the team is Wang, and they’re trying to fix him.
The whole jet stream thing is a nice little “lets bash the Yankee’s story” For guys like Joe Buck to talk about.
“It’s not ultimately Girardi or Eiland’s decistion to make with Wang’s status. It will be Cashman based on the input of his manager and the pitching coach.”
good point.
Pat I was wondering about that, maybe they should accelerate the process of tearing down the old Yankee Stadium to see how the wind patterns will be for the long haul in the new park…
Yes I know Geise is with the A’s, but it was Girardi’s decision not to have a long man that sent him there or kept the other two in AAA.
The homers to right field shoouldn’t alarm anybody re: the new stadium. How many cheapies were hit at the old Stadium?
The concerning one to me was Choo’s opposite field homer to LC. I can’t remember very many(any?) lefties hitting a HR to left center across the street. Certainly not somebody like Choo. And, it didn’t even look like he really hit it great. If this keeps up, we may see 461 to center again, 457 to LC, and the monuments back in play.
Debacles like today happen to every team in baseball every so often and are quickly forgotten with a nice winning streak. Guaranteed this will not be talked about at the Thanksgiving dinner table wherever Yankee fans may be.
Teh big question ia what’s the best cure for a dysfunctional Wang?
RayVT-All right. I say bring up Aceves as long man.
We’re getting killed by Mark DeRosa, Abdul Cabrera, and Chin-Soo Choo… Imagine what Boston and Detroit’s lineup will do to us in the coming weeks? And Oakland’s lineup ain’t bad either.
Between the horrible pitching and the horrible ballpark and bad defense, it is a major cause for concern
Does anybody know where Joe Buck is from? It has to be boston. Him and Peter Gammons can kiss my ___
RER – 98: I completely agree.
I can’t imagine how bad Joe Buck and Troy Aikman were during a game that was 14-2 in the 2nd inning. What on earth were they talking about the whole game?
I love the ballpark. Apparently I’m the only one. Believe me though, if the Yankees start doing well at home, it’ll be the best ballpark in baseball according to the people in this blog by October.
how about having him skip a start and he can also get in a few innings as a long man or in middle innings if the yare killing someone or getting killed???
he has to figure this out, he makes steve trout look like steve carlton…
Joey— How the yankee’s season is over
randy, to be clear, is it now your contention that someone has instructed Chien-ming Wang to change Wang’s mechanics?
skip Wang’s next start 100% and also can we please get like a whole new coaching staff
Buck is from st louis.. you did not know that? His dad was the cards announcer for about 50 yrs……
rob ny,
i wouldnt want that bum playing for us, b/c you know against the red sox, he’s taking his seat all 5 times a game with 5 strikeouts. (obviously he’s better than what we have, so i’d take him, but i’d rather have vernon wells, who actually shows up against the red sox.)
teixeiramvp,
our team lacks consistency. our offense is unreliable. we have good hitters but our loser hitting coach kevin long cant seem to teach our players situational hitting, understanding the value of getting runs home, choking up on the bat, not popping the ball up. it’s a disgrace all the way around, eiland, long, and the worst is looking at this tool, this emotionless weasel joe girardi, i thought he was supposed to bring fire and drill it into our players not to take an at bat off like the 2009 year ending last place indians didnt take an at bat off today. and lastly, we need leadership and if claggett comes in, he damn well better drill somebody, i dont care anymore if it’s in the damn head, knock people out, take no prisoners, teach the opposition a lesson and make them fear us the way everybody fears the red sox.
They have lost six games!
Three were b/c Wang gave them no chance. That will get fixed, or he will be replaced.
One was b/c CC gave them no chance. Will be very rare that that happens again.
Two were on the bullpen. With Bruney emerging, the Yanks need to find @2-3 others they can trust outside of Mo. I think they will find one from the group they have now, the second will come from the minors(Melancon?) That soft spot will be fixed soon.
Things are not as bad as they seem!
Teixeiramvp (JobaCyYoung)
I like that option as well. I posted this earlier at the end of the last category. (Now I know Wang can’t be sent down!)
———-
WOW! I don’t believe the sky is falling in, but I do believe we need a long man. I’m not talking about a reliever, although the Yanks do need one, I’m talking about Girardi. He is a stubborn control freak joke.
Wang should have been out of the game at 4-2. Acevedes or Tomko or Geise should have been brought into the game. But they aren’t on the Yankees team. Girardi doesn’t like the power that Posada has and I believe he is jealous of him. (A catcher thing!) Marte is a LH specialist whom Girardi continues to use as a 1 inning guy. Cabrera & Gardner both looked great in the spring, but Girardi went all or nothing with his choice. If X hadn’t gotten hurt Melky might still be sitting. How do you ph Matsui in a blow out? Pena & Ransom are both weak sticks and they were chosen over _! One of them is ok, but not both.
Girardi doesn’t talk with his players like they are professionals, he orders them. That is why Posada was upset. The previous Joe T wwas very professional as a manager. Girardi is a shock to the players. He literally took there candy away too. LOL!
I am a diehard Yankee fan. I still believe they will win the pennant this year in the AL East. But I’m not sure that Girardi is the man for the job. Hopefully I’m wrong.
I agree with what I’ve read here for the most part, it is time to get Wang in shape in Tampa & bring Hughes, Acevedes & Robertson up. I would even give Duncan a shot at 3B till Arod gets back. Claggett, Ramirez, & Ransom or Pena need to go down.
I think that the real Chien Ming Wang is still in Taiwan. This one is his doppelganger.
I thought it was St. Louis or Boston. Godamn Cards fan. The wanna be Yankees with the most boring elitest fans in the world.
TeixMVP
Granted the pitching has been the biggest reason but….
Do you know what a concentrator on a hairdryer is? Same principle as air flow forced between 2 buildings.
Take the concentrator off and you get a more diffused air current.
I think the 2 buildings are acting like a concentrator and with the open concourses it might be carrying into the new stadium.
Time will tell.
Swisher is a terrible defender from what we’ve seen so far. Just because he can play 4 different positions, doesn’t mean he is any good at them.
“how about having him skip a start and he can also get in a few innings as a long man or in middle innings if the yare killing someone or getting killed???”
They seem to be getting killed only when he starts. Wang can’t relieve himself. And by relieve, I mean replace himself on the mound. The other relieving of himself? That he can do.
You just since the delight Joe buck takes when he’s annoucing a game where the Yankees are losing.
gerodkgies-I don’t buy the bad offense thing. They’ve shown decent late inning punch and have scored less than 4 runs once. That’s pretty good.
Wang or no Wang, or rotation’s one of the best in baseball and we have a lot of minor league talent to shor up our bullpen. If anything we’ll get better as the year goes on with A-Rod coming back and CC as well as Wang certain to improve (at least definitely CC, and I believe in Wang). Remember, we’re in the drivers’ seat. Boston and Tampa are looking up at US. No worries here.
wow- the yankee have given up 11,15, and 22 runs in the three games wang has started.
it wouldn’t surprise me if that is a mlb team record for three starts by one pitcher.
but the good new is aj burnett has followed the two previous blowouts with well pitched wins.
i’ll be looking for no less tomorrow.
R+-The word from all those defensive metrics is that he’s pretty good.
Wang’s ERA is probably shot for the year. For him to finish the season with a 4.00 ERA and 200 innings, he would need to post a 3.05 ERA over his next 30 starts. That’s not impossible, but highly improbable with the way he looks right now.
That said, if Wang can turn things around and just start winning, it doesn’t matter what his stats look like. I don’t care if he finishes the season with a 4.60 ERA, if he can help the team win games.
Hopefully the Yankees can straighten him out soon because not having him in the rotation (pitching well) could end up being very costly. I was fine with the depth of our pitching if CC, Wang, and Pettitte were all locked for 200 innings, but now that Wang can’t seem to put it together, we absolutely cannot afford any of the other starters to get hurt or start stinking up the joint, because our bullpen will be shot.
It will be interesting to see if a night game makes any difference to the number of home runs. (and actually doubles too — or is it my imagination that there’s more doubles as well).
A night game might give some insight to the “jet stream” theory.
Hughes please….anything is better than Wang right now. The fact that he can’t be sent to the minors scares me. You can’t just throw away games because it’s April. These games count just as much as games in August.Sept.
pat-Maybe, but it seems dubious to say the least.
I mean, what are the odds? A jet stream causing homers to right field in a ballpark with a short right field porch?
im not saying we have a bad offense, runners on 3rd and less than 2 out have to be driven in,
also, where are our 5 run innings to take control of a game, they are nonexistent or few and far between because we dont execute to get the big innings. solo home run after solo home run, good at bat followed by first pitch swinging bad at bat. offense has scored many runs this year, and very good in last 2 games against the rays situationally, but it has to be there every game, especially in this division, there cant be any nights off.
Wang needs to make adjustments or he is finished as a front line pitcher. Look at him physically – he smokes cigarettes, is not in good physical shape, and hasn’t worked hard enough to make adjustments in his pitching repetoire. Batters are laying off the slider – when its working. He has no effective secondary pitches to throw and get batters out with.
Rollie Sheldon, Jim Coates, Bill Stafford, Doc Medich…Ching Ming Wang?
“Swisher is a terrible defender from what we’ve seen so far. Just because he can play 4 different positions, doesn’t mean he is any good at them.”
True. Swisher looks like he’s on roller skates out there.
Nick in SF still hanging out at the Ponderosa….What Randy I ( The Original Tin Cup ) was saying that his relese point ( arm slot ) is different than it has been for the past 3 years and it’s clear that it has…It’s all speculation as to why, but rarely does a ballplayer change things on their own…..Ballplayer as most atheletes are creatures of habit as eveything they do is repentative re-enfocement….Same thing over and over….I thought that maybe his foot is causing him to short stride to offset any pressure on his foot….Randy mentioned this a month ago during a spring training outing as he got lite up….Catchers see crap like that ..He’s right, something has changed with his slot….CB also provided a siet that clearly demonstates the difference ……I respect those two and their opinions ….
Pitch is contagious, Good or Bad. I just hope Wangs lousy starts don’t begin putting so much pressure on AJ, C.C. and the others that they start pitching lousy too. We had already seen his affect on the bullpen.
Uh, that should be sinker!
Yeah, A.J. has opened my eyes. I’ll admit I did not want him. Now, I thank god he’s here
I think we can all agree that Wang needs to get his Chung back.
RayVT-Read my response to gerodkgies. It’s more or less what I’d say in response to your post.
I actually like Girardi. You watch,they’ll turn it around.
PAT M
April 18th, 2009 at 9:17 pm
GB, I was blacked out from the ( Fox and it’s bs )…Blowouts are tough, but it’s also a shame that guys mail it in….Those are the games that you try to stat your way through the blowout…Those wasted ab’s will cost you a batting title or even hitting .300….Cano I think will have a shot at the batting Title this season…Come late Sept you wonder if he’ll be wishing he had those ab’s back…..That being said, man it’s hard when you’re getting your tail whipped to stay focused….
————————————————————
PAT M, I’m more concerned with the bad habits that giving at bats away than the batting titles. Bad habits have a lingering affect. I can’t ever remember Rose, Carew, Mattingly or Boggs giving away times at bat. Marte, especially annoyed me. This was the perfect spot to try fixing things. That was the ugliest part. Veras and Marte should have followed Wang, instead of putting a rookie into his first game. Start the kid with a clean inning.
gerodkgies-Well, it actually has been decent every game, it just can’t match up with the 10-20 runs that Wang/the bullpen forces us to try and match.
If we get decent pitching, we’ll win the majority of our games w/our offense, which will improve vastly when A-Rod returns.
Tom in N.J.-Agree, I’m gladly eating my words on A.J., he’s been our savior.
Joe Girardi may still be in his Stadium office with Cashman going over player personnel plans.
High on the list is Wang’s problems, Matsui’s knees, A-Rod’s return, and bullpen meltdowns.
LathamJoe
April 18th, 2009 at 9:34 pm
Wang needs to make adjustments or he is finished as a front line pitcher. Look at him physically – he smokes cigarettes, is not in good physical shape, and hasn’t worked hard enough to make adjustments in his pitching repetoire. Batters are laying off the slider – when its working. He has no effective secondary pitches to throw and get batters out with.
Rollie Sheldon, Jim Coates, Bill Stafford, Doc Medich…Ching Ming Wang?
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Stafford and sheldon’s shoulders just came apart. Coates was aging and hooked up at the right time with the Yanks and Medich did well, but, he pretty much lost interest in baseball in order to finish getting his medical license.
all good point teixeiramvp, but we cant waste any games. every game counts, we just lost nady for the season, teixeira has a wrist issue, arod we dont know whats going to happen, try and better our team by getting players with salaries that other teams are trying to dump, like bill hall. or bring up players to help this team now from the minors, not sure who, melancon mabye, hughes, drop kennedy down to single a where he belongs, this cody ransom makes me as sick as looking at the waddling pig dave eiland. i’d rather see juan miranda at 3b than ransom, i want to take a hot iron and smear ransoms face with it.
not to mentions matsui and his knees, he’s effectively done. at least his career with us.
if matsui goes to the red sox , he’ll be stuck with the same steroid needle that ortiz has been injected with the last several years and become an mvp candidate.
PAT M: I’ve been following the discussion. CB did not say that someone had told Wang to change his arm slot and release point and he explicitly said that he does not think that Eiland would do that.
So I’m just wondering if randy is contending that someone told Wang to do that and if he thinks Eiland is that person.
The lineup has been very poor. They need to get more then 2 or 3 guys going. No more 1st pitch swinging and can someone teach them how to hit with RISP??!! That has been there problem for the last couple of years. Melky has looked good the last couple of days I think Girardi should sit Gardner and play Melky. It seems that Gardner has gone back to his pathetic girl swing for most of this at bats. Let Pena play 3rd, his at bats have been good. Tomorrow Posada will have the day off so you are looking at Molina, Ransom and Gardner.
gerodkgies-Tex’s wrist is fine, they did an MRI. He got that shot and Tex said it was 10 times better.
I love Melancon and the sooner he’s here the better.
I just got finished examining some photos from renovated YS. What I came away with is although the Yankees say the demensions are the same it really isn’t.
It appears that the “power ally’s” in the new place is shorter then renovated YS. Renovated YS also had a curve to the wall in the power ally’s. By having a curved wall the fence is pushed back making the gaps/power ally bigger.
New YS the gaps/power ally is more on a straighter line therefore shortening the fences and therefore making the gaps smaller.
Smaller gaps+ a jet stream= Lots of homeruns.
maybe ransom can shoot up with the same performance enhancing drugs as PEDroia and become an mvp candidate! whos with me?
“randy, to be clear, is it now your contention that someone has instructed Chien-ming Wang to change Wang’s mechanics?”
nick in sf-
that would be my guess, but i’m tempering my opinion because of the back and forth with cb as he gave some good reasons why eiland wouldn’t do it.
i think it’s important to be thoughtful about what’s going on with wang so that’s what i’m trying to do.
one thing is clear and that is that wang’s release point is almost a foot off in height and from center. this is objective pitch f/x data. this isn’t opinion , it’s fact.
i’m still waiting for someone on the yankees to talk about the release point. at some point they will have to address it
if you want a humorous reason why i think that if wang’s release is higher someone likely told him to do it just put your right hand straight out to your side horizontally . now let it go.
did it go up?
see
All of the kids are doing well, tonight. David adams and Ray Kruml are hitting everything for Charleston. Melky Mesa’s playing a solid left field and his bat is heating up.
Angelini is starting to hit, but, they need to get him a fielding instructor or move him to the outfield….another error and should have been two.
So, how many posts were on the other thread? 2000? And it’s April, not August folks. I buried the Yanks last year in August and the boys almost made me eat my words with their great September run. I remember everyone giving up in May last year, then coming back around in July, then we had them buried in August, only to have them come back in September, and remember; we didn’t have Tex, CC, or AJ last year. Long way to go folks, take an Advil and calm down.
However –
K, this goes too far:
“I’d rather rip my ear drums out than watch a ball game on Fox – I prefer Michael Kay’s “C’ya” to the tripe I heard today.”
Please, tell me you were kidding. When I watch Yankee games out here (TimeWarnerCable in Los Angeles) and hear Kay do his “See ya,” signature home run call, I want to crawl through the set and strangle the guy. Buck and McCarver are bad, but Kay is out of sight bad.
George, and the boys, could do me a tremendous favor by firing that idiot!
randy: It’s very important for the team to be thoughtful about what’s going on with Wang. On here?
I don’t care if they publicly address the release point as long as they get him straightened out.
Wang can play a set up man for a while .
Please give more chance to Wang . Wang can rebound soon.
Pepitone, I saw your Grand Slam today vs. Cards in the 64 WS….Also you were safe on that roller …Had they made the right call we would have won Game 5…Tresh went yard on the next pitch……Yanks are fine, and everyone will move on as tomorrow is another day and another game to be played….
David Phelps has also turned in his 2nd great start. 11.2 innings, 8 hits, 2 runs, 1 earned. 1 walk and 8 strikeouts.
He’s a tall right hander (6′3″ and 195) from Notre Dame.
PLEASE skip his next start. I can’t handle sitting through that kinda crap at Fenway.
GB&:
My point is, for one reason or another, those ptichers were ineffective after a few years and cost the Yankees ballgames – just like Wang is now doing.
Rollie Sheldon failed not because of arm problems, but becuase the American League caught up with his stuff. Even when the Yankees traded him to KC, he still made 29 starts.
Coates, also, didn’t have arm problems. He was lucky enough to have been in a Yankee Organizaton which dominated in the Early 60s. He had a mediocre fastball and liked to hit oppposing batters – not much else.
Bill Stafford did have arm problems. He was very effective from 1960-62 and then faded. The late Bill Stafford was born in nearby Catskill,NY , saw him pitch for Binghamton in the Eastern League, and I met him at a AA Yankees game in 1997 when they played in Albany-Colonie.
http://74.125.47.132/search?q=.....ent=safari
good article on wang from alex belth from 2006
“Though derailed by injuries in 2001 and part of ‘03, Wang had developed into the organization’s best pitcher at Triple A Columbus by the end of the ‘04 season on the strength of a newly acquired sinker. Before that Wang threw a variety of pitches, as many as six, each with varying success but none with dominance. Columbus pitching coach Neil Allen taught him the hard sinker, and his catcher (current Yankees backup) Sal Fasano guided Wang with assurance, eventually calling for the pitch almost 90 percent of the time. Wang’s sinker clocks in the low 90s and has tremendous movement.”
“”He’s a weird pitcher, with an unusual approach,” says Nate Silver of Baseball Prospectus. In addition to the sinker, Wang has a four-seam fastball that he gets up into the 95-96 mph range. He also has an adequate slider and an average changeup.
“He’s not trying to strike people out,” says Silver, “he’s trying to induce weak contact.” Most guys with the ability to throw as hard as Wang strike out far more hitters (think of power sinkerballers such as Brown or Derek Lowe.) “In the long run,” Silver continues, “he’ll find if you can strike people out it will make him even better.”
good stuff.
All of this drama makes it feel like midseason already.
HOW LONG BEFORE EILAND GETS FIRED?????
Wang has always scared me because of his weak K:BB and well-below-average BABIP. If he wins 19 games again this year – heck, if he wins one – I’ll be thrilled. But I don’t think he’s so much lost his stuff as the league’s finally figured him out.
Or, maybe he’s got some kind of psychological or other sort of makeup problem. I mean, didn’t he admit to being lazy after his first start? Who does that in the first place. And who does that and then goes on to complete all of 2 1/3 innings in his next two starts?
Of course he’s not hurt-he just sucks. I can’t wait until next weekend-it will be enjoyable watching the Sawx sweep your sorry asses.
Also, today proved why we need Aceves on the roster. Given his previous two outings, at the first sign of danger – or after four runs through 1 1/3 – you have to bring in the long reliever. One big and totally undersung reason the championship Yankees were the championship Yankees was Ramiro Mendoza.
The Tigers sent D. Willis to the DL due to “performance anxiety” or some BS like that. Wang needs the same treatment. And how is this Girardi’s call? Cashman needs to dictate this, it’s none of Girardi’s business.
Science time: “A little humidity will help keep balls in the park but not much they can do about it now except strike out the opposition or keep the ball on the ground.”
Actually, counter-intuitively, humid air is lighter than dry air. The ball travels better in humid air.
Last thing: We have way too many guys hitting sub-Mendoza (not Ramiro). AOSBAPRBG (Automatic Out Should Be a Pinch Runner Bumtt Goatner) surprisingly isn’t, but he’s gotta go. AOCR at least is just placeholding for Double-Play-Rod. But we need a legit CF-er, and we need one yesterday.
skip wang okay….let me get this straight…we skip him…we can’t play matsui everyday….ransom is an automatic out…gardner takes first strikes and gets himself in the hole and then hits a little dribbler….we have a left fielder who is actually a dh…. we cherish a farm system that almost everyone they bring up can’t contribute ie claggett or pitch a few good games and then fall on their faces …..hmmmm i must be missing something on the management of this team
This is starting to sound a lot like last season. Girardi was always “It will turn around, it will get better” until it’s October & the Yankees are sitting home for the play-offs. I didn’t think he was the hire & he’s done nothing to change my opinion.
does anyone know where i could find an audio of swisher reading the lineup yesterday?
Does Eiland understand Wang’s best situation?
Maybe we need to call Ron Guidry back, he really understand Wang’s problem, and know how to fix it.
fire girardi some ho9w get Sweet Lou back to run this club . put wang on DL and bring up hughes. Have AJ encourage Roy Haliday to leave Blue jays.