Wide open spaces
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Apr 22, 2009 
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Ari, one of our readers, was at the game last night and sent this photo. It’s of the Field level behind home plate during the ninth inning of a two-run game.
Here’s what he wrote:
“The whole front section was sparse at best, with swaths of empty seats. And the Field Level were I was sitting was 1/3 full, maybe. You could hear people talking about it, and if it hadn’t been the first game I attended at the new Yankee Stadium with my father, it would’ve taken away from the experience.”
This has to be embarrassing to the organization and you have to wonder when Hal Steinbrenner will order some action be taken. I’m not sure what the solution is. If those seats are sold, the Yankees need to figure a way to get unused tickets in the hands of those who want to attend games.
If the tickets aren’t sold, then obviously prices need to be cut to a reasonable amount. But having the upper sections full and the lower section a ghost town really sends a bad message.
Seriously they need to lower prices, the cost to get into those seats is so much you have to be nuts to think your going to fill them. I would love to buy one of those tickets but until they realize the price is to high that wont happen.
It’s embarassing and looks terrible on television. In fact, I was a Nationals season-ticket holder last year (upper deck) and New Yankee Stadium looks just like Nationals Park did last year behind home plate. Terrible, terrible, terrible. Looks like the Yanks made the same mistakes the Nationals did in terms of ticket plans and pricing structures.
In addition to the theory that these tickets are sold and simply not being used, I’ve also heard the notion kicked around that many of the folks with these seats are choosing to hang out in the club areas to which they have access.
If that’s true, it might mean that the financial problem for the Yankees isn’t as serious as some think, but it does nothing to mitigate what I consider the real problem–that the empty seats damage the atmosphere in the park.
Pete,
Isnt this sort of like the knee-jerk reaction people are having to the 20 home runs hit in the Cleveland series?
Granted, this could very well be a problem, but can we have more of a sample size?
To expect 50,000 people in attendance on a cold, dank, foggy mid-week April night game against a second division team like Oakland may be asking too much … even for a new ballpark.
Now if Boston or Tampa Bay is in town and those seats are half full, then you defintitely have something to be concerned about.
I think there is way too much overreaction about attendance figures for a stadium that just opened.
Thats were i usually sat begind home plate at the old stadium,But i can afford all that its to damm expensive.
Disco Stu:
I never once saw that many empty seats behind the plate in the old Stadium for any game at any time. Never once.
So the stadium was not sold out on a damp and cold Tuesday night???? I am shocked! Especially considering that all the other MLB teams sold out their games on Tuesday night.
Yes the Yankees must immediately lower their seat prices to please the media types who have obviously no other material to write about.
Dear Pete,
You’ve now beaten the dead horse regarding the shortcomings of the new Stadium.
Feel free to STOP at any time.
Thanks.
Rob C,
Given the transient nature of blog posts, it’s awfully logical for Pete to keep up the pressure. He has a huge audience, including many in the Yankees organization, and he’s trying to actually effect change — you know, like a real journalist. No one’s forcing you to read it.
the answer is obvious: c.g.i. Imagine having Abe Lincoln sitting next to an Oakland Raiders cheerleader?
Knowing the Yanks, it would likely be the W.B. Mason guy replicated 1000s of times.
Surely this must also be bad for the players too. They must be missing a lot of cheers from those seats.
I wonder also, what they think of the fact that kids can’t get their autographs easily now either.
It looks awful on TV. It’s like watching a Rays game from 2005. You just can’t see that the rest of the stadium is full from TV, all you see is empty seats.
Bryan,
No need to be condescending to me about the nature of journalism, as I majored in it in college. I also understand how things work on the blogosphere, thank you very much.
It’s just my opinion that these issues have been well-known and well-documented. Believe me, the Yankees brass are quite aware of the many issues they need to address going forward concerning the ballpark.
What I’d like to read in these posts is how the Yankees might potentially deal with these issues. That, to me, would be useful information.
I think Pete does a great job, that’s why I read this blog. But this has to be at least the 20th post about something that’s wrong with the new Stadium.
How about talking about baseball on the baseball blog?
I watched the gave on TV last night, and it was comical, the upper deck and non premium lower deck sections were ALL full, only the inner ring walled off premium seats were empty. This tells you only one thing, either rich people will melt in the rain, or fans bought all of the reasonably priced tickets, but can’t afford these super expensive tickets. It’s just such a poor job by the Yankees, how many corporate exec. types are out there to fill thousands of inner ring seats every game at $500-2900 a pop??
Rob C:
This is what the conversation is. This is what people are talking about. This is what people want to hear about.
And n reality, its a big problem and there has been no decision making from the higher ups on it.
So if you dont like it…BOUNCE.
I went to the game last night with a few friends, and what was really shocking was that all those seats were empty throughout the course of the night. It’s not like there was a mass exodous in the late innings.
There where empty seats but the attendance last night was 42,000. Which is good on a week night against Oakland on a crappy night.
Those $2600 seats behind HP and down first base/third base side is just too expensive.
But the problem is if the Yankees lowered the prices then the tickets that they sold already for those seats they would have to refund people back. Which is not easy to do.
They have to find a way to sell those seats for a much lower price without upsetting fans who bought them for $2600.
While it’s true that we’ve never seen so many empty seats behind the plate, it’s also true that the old place had NO amenities. I’ve been to 4 games already, and each time the “exclusive” restaurants and bars have been packed. I can only assume they are being filled by premium seat patrons, which naturally means they will not be in their seat.
This issue is quickly becoming a dead horse…besides, I don’t see why it is so embarrassing. My only concern is that the team makes enough money so it can continue to fulfill my off season wish list. I could care less if rich people, who were being charged $250 in the old place, are now being charged 2x-10x that, and really don’t care if they are sitting in the seats or not. If it means replacing Damon with Holliday next season, I say keep the rich coming.
Bob and Rob:
So let me get this straight, you think it’s normal and fine that the Yankees have large swatches of empty seats behind home plate?
Because that never happened at the old Stadium.
If you think it’s fine that the best fans in baseball are denied the best seats, I’m not sure what to tell you. I don’t happen to think its right. This is a big topic in New York and if my blog helps in some way to get the team to lower prices, than I’ll risk your smug satisfaction.
Rob C, I think this is a huge story. Considering the Yankees have been just about selling out every game for the past several years, and then to open a new stadium with swaths of empty seats all over the place, something is seriously wrong.
Disco Stu,
I was at Saturday’s game (the first weekend game at the new stadium and beautiful 70 degree weather). There were entire sections that were completely empty near the dugouts and the bases. The rest of the stadium was full.
Rob C,
It is an issue that needs to be addressed. Mike Francesa has been pounding the issue to, on almost a somewhat daily basis. Thats what the media does. And if anything, it is good they are speaking on behalf of the fans.
Just look what happened with the Mets. The fans voiced their compaints to the media with Francesa and change was made. Maybe thats all it will take. You don’t have to read the blog if it upsets you that much. Skim over it or whatever.
My voice doesn’t get anywhere so maybe Pete’s or someone else in the media’s will.
Would I have gone with the weather like last night? Probably not. Would I have gone in this economic malaise? Probably not.
On a bright note, if you’re ever @ the park and you see field level sections empty, you can go down to the concourse and get a really sweet view of the game. There was plenty of standing room last night, and with no one in the chairs, there was virtually no obstruction of the field. Only downside is you have to stand the whole time. Not bad for 14 bucks on stubhub.
The Yanks claim that 80% of these seats are sold. If true, the only thing I can think of is that the corporate bigwigs who bought the seats think that it might not be the best idea to be the president of say, Citibank and then be shown on TV sitting in $3000 seats, after getting federal money.
I was there both Sat and last night and the lower levle looked absolutely barren. Its really pathetic.
I don’t buy the inner ring seat holders all taking solice in the premium clubs. There was litterally no one sitting at the very end or the 1st or 3rd base sides, no one, not at any point of the game.
If the Yankees choose to lower the prices, why is it so hard to refund money? In fact, those seats were mostly sold on a multi-year basis. They could just give those ticketholders a credit on next year’s invoice.
The Yankees are falling into the stereotype, of a money-hungry, greedy organization. They are alienating the hardcore Yankee fans. Its embarrassing seeing the empty lazy-boy seats behind the plate.
I also wonder how many of these overpriced tickets were bought by companies who received bailout money from our tax dollars?
I don’t buy that the corporate execs are buying these tickets but don’t go to the games out of shame of public money. In times like these, especially, when everyone is working hard to survive, you give those tickets to your analyst, secretary, someone else in your office because it’s a nice gift and shows appreciation to your workers. they wouldn’t just sit on the tickets and let them become worthless.
Life as we know it is over. *jumps off bridge*
I’m not disagreeing that this is a big and important story. I wasn’t trying to be smug or anything like that. It’s just that it seems like for the last week, this is all we’ve heard about. I’m sorry if for me it’s getting monotonous.
I’m just expressing an opinion here. I don’t need to be told to “bounce”. Come on, guys. Isn’t debate the point of blogs?
Pete-
Explain to me why being rich and being a die-hard fan are 2 mutually exclusive things? So, if your blog and all the other coverage this is getting helps lower ticket prices, humor me with this:
If you can afford to pay X amount on a ticket to a Yankees game, you are an inferior can. X = ????
What’s the cutoff for being the best Yankee fan? Are you sure that its only in Yankees Stadium where what you would consider to be a team’s “best fans” are denied access to the best seats because of pricing?
“I don’t buy the inner ring seat holders all taking solice in the premium clubs. There was litterally no one sitting at the very end or the 1st or 3rd base sides, no one, not at any point of the game.”
Also, Both the seats AND the Premium Lounge was empty on Saturday afternoon.
Personally, I have no problem with $2,500 seats. I have a problem with $500 seats and $350 seats and $120 Bleacher Cafe seats, etc….
Baseball is for the masses, it’s not basetball or football.
They will fix this. But it hasn’t happened yet because they have to #1 refund money #2 find reasonable prices #3 find a way to tell those fans that had those seats and gave them up because of the high prices, “Uh…we’re sorry…here are some free tix to extra games”.
Clay Bucholz-
The Yankees were down 14-2 after 1.5 innings on Saturday. Probably not the best judge of people coming out to a game.
If you wanna theorize about the rich, since they aren’t fans they probably show up around inning 3 and listen to the game casually on the radio while they have a limo service take them to the game. As opposed to all the real fans who take the subway, these rich people, after hearing that the Yankees were down 14-2 after 2 innings, probably (gasp!) told their drivers to turn around and go home.
Does everyone really think that the seats behind the plate last season were being filled by the “average, die hard” fan? Considering those seats are usually sold in season packages, it would have cost at least $25,000 to buy them. I don’t think Joe Average was lining up for those either. The corporations were getting these seats in the old place, and they are getting them in the new one. The only difference is they are being asked to pay more. If that means cheaper seats in the upper deck and a $200mn payroll, I can live with it….think of it as a tax on the rich.
change doesn’t always go the way you think it will. the yankees change stadiums and expect that the new improved stadium will have a full crowd show up. not necessarily.
chien ming wang has a devastating sinker and wins 19 games two years in a row. each year he is encouraged to develop more pitches with mixed results. when he is injured he comes back and no longer has the devastating pitch.
change by definition changes things. the new yankee stadium isn’t the same, and the new chien ming wang after injury isn’t the same.
the question now is how to get the good stuff back with changes that have been made.
this goes both for wang and the crowds at the new stadium.
the message is when you have success , be careful what you change .
Harold, I agree. Just because someone has money to afford those seats does not mean they are not a “real” fan and it annoys me to read the articles that insinuate otherwise.
However, we have all seen the corporate types that are there to be seen and couldn’t tell you the count or the score at any given point in the game. THOSE are the ones I believe the media refers to when talking about the “real” fans being priced out of those seats. The fact is when looking at the entire fanbase, the people that can afford the seats are much smaller in number than those of us that cannot, so it stands to reason that there would be more diehards in the upper deck/bleachers than in the field seats even if the entire stadium was full.
randy
Haven’t you heard of new and improved?
Harold,
I disagree. A beautiful 70 degree game on a Saturday afternoon. The first weekend game at a brand new stadium.
I’m sure they will remedy the situation.
If the Yankees have such a legion of hardcore, working class fans who would jump at the chance to fill the stadium if only premium seats were affordable, why was the stadium rarely sold out in the 1980s? Could it be that most of the people who attend sporting events are really bandwagon jumpers who only want to watch a team when it is winning? The Yankees definitely have a more loyal following than most, but don’t kid yourself into thinking a majority of the fanbase is behind the team win or lose. Just like the Yankees look for the extra buck, the “average” fan will turn to another form of entertainment as soon as the Yankees fail to win.
I just don’t understand the perfection that was expected. Did everyone think that EVERYTHING was going to go smoothly? Did the Yankees know about this economic collapse (which is not just impacting the Yankees, if you watched MLB Tonight or Baseball Tonight last night)? Sure, there are mistakes which need to be rectified. But even with a $1.5 billion bill, did everyone truly expect a completely seamless transition?
Clay-
Wouldn’t those people walk around and check out the stadium, or grab a nice surf&turf meal in their private area during the 22-4 grubbing instead of sitting in their seats?
How long are we going to hear about the empty seats?? I think by now everyone knows about them and has seen them. Unfortunately those are the seats always in the camera’s eye. Of course if they would pan the whole Stadium aside from the first to third base field level seats they would see that the Stadium is basically full. At least it was for the first three games I attended. Aside from the EXPENSIVE seats and the awful weather the Stadium looked pretty full on TV last night when I was watching. It’s useless to keep complaining. They will remain empty until the Yankees decide to do something about…IF they decide to do something about it.
The seats that aren’t taken in the upper levels are sold to all the so called “legal” scalpers who haven’t been able to dump them on Stubhub, Ebay, etc and are now lowering prices way under the original ticket price in order to do so except for the Premium games.
Try to enjoy the game instead of worrying about the empty seats…leave that to Yankee management. All I worry about is my seat and hoping for a win when I attend a game…
Go Yankees 2009 !!
The “best” seats are always going to be too expensive for most people, especially for multiple games. But I think what really stinks is that the way they are priced now, you can’t even decide if it would be worth the splurge for one game. The price differential is just too huge. And weren’t all those seats only available as season packages, so you couldn’t even go to the single game even if you wanted to?
It’s like there’s no hope for ever getting lucky enough to score a really good seat.
I don’t have a problem with the fact there are some people who are always going to be able to afford better, and that there are amenities that people are willing to pay for if they can afford to do so. And when you look at the schematic of the stadium seating, the number of seats affected looks like a small percentage of the seats in the stadium. But it is 100% of the best seats.
And it sure doesn’t look good on television, that’s for certain. Not just the fact that there are empty seats, but the fact that it really does look like “rich man/poor man.” And it looks like there’s not a lot of “rich man” fans who are willing to buy those seat. Or, even worse, the best seats in the house go to the people who care least about actually going to a game themselves. Let’s face it, those tickets are not sold to people; they’re sold to businesses.
I guess the Yankees wanted to expand on the luxury box situation. In theory, I guess not a bad idea. In this economy, though, not so much. And I think they allocated too many of the better seats for corporate consumption.
Pete
If you could find a way to help me not be “denied” driving a Mercedes instead of a Honda, shopping at Saks instead of Target and drinking Cristal instead of Pepsi, that would be appreciated too. Thanks.
If the Yankees say the seats are sold, they are. Remember that revenue sharing is based on attendance and it would actual be in their financial best interest to undercount not overcount seats sold.
Here’s what’s monotonous, Rob C:
-Watching regular season games that look like pre-season games in terms of fan turnout in the best seats.
-Hearing mealy-mouthed, half-baked responses from Yankeeland from Randy and Hal, like “80 to 85 % of our prenium seats have been sold,” and “some of our seats may be overpriced.”
-Watching the Yankee organization repeatedly live down to every negative stereotype that has ever been conjured up against them.
We’re here to help, Rob. The problems are recurring. Sorry if you’re bored by it.
I could understand charging $500-2900 per game for football, there are only 8 home games, but not for baseball. And let’s say that a corporation just buys the $500 ‘cheap’ seats and gets a box of 4, for the whole season that is $164,000. That is the salary and benefits of a middle manager, not small potatos.
Pat, I like the analogy. I have been wondering where the sense of entitlement comes from only in regards to the Yanks and have used a similar one on many different forums.
As much as a lot of people do not like to hear it, baseball is a business. Like any other, they price things as to what they believe the market will bear. For whatever reason (ie;economy tanking) the seats are empty. If they are sold and not used, well the Yanks bottom line is not affected other than maybe with merchandise (those seats come with free food). If they are not sold, well the Yanks have to re think things and lower them to the point that they will get sold.
I have 25+ games in the upper deck and bleachers. I’d love to sit in the field level seats, but my income is what it is. I would also love to drive a Ferarri, but am stuck with my Pontiac.
There have always been and will always be “haves” and “have nots”.
The Yankee attendence for the last 20 years:
YEAR Attendance Att Per Game
2009 223,672 44,734
2008 4,298,655 53,070
2007 4,271,083 52,729
2006 4,248,067 52,445
2005 4,090,696 50,502
2004 3,775,292 46,609
2003 3,465,600 42,263
2002 3,465,807 43,323
2001 3,264,907 40,811
2000 3,055,435 38,193
1999 3,292,736 40,651
1998 2,955,193 36,484
1997 2,580,325 32,254
1996 2,250,877 28,136
1995 1,705,263 23,360
1994 1,675,556 29,396
1993 2,416,942 29,839
1992 1,748,737 21,589
1991 1,863,733 23,009
1990 2,006,436 24,771
The Old Stadium was not always sold out.
i was in the legends seats alast night – the entire section enxt to me was empty and the 3 rows behind me – 100% empty.
That being said – it was amazing. The stadium was beautiful, and the amenities that come along with the seats are unbelievable. Maybe not worth 2500, but for the $150 seats closer to the outfield, i don’t see why it’s such a big deal, or why they are so empty.
I hate when it compresses the data like that.
I guess the better question is what do people exactly want to see be done here, what would be the rectifiable action, instead of us harping on and on OMG, Zikes, the seats are empty in premium spots, how about we suggest what the course of action should be.
Is it that there are folks who wish they had those seats but can’t afford it, but hope it is lowered in price and would they still expect to get the same services that come with a high end ticket price even if its lowered. I hear a lot of folks aghast but I don’t hear what they want to see done.
Its one of two things either those seats are not sold as the Yankees like to claim about having high interest in them or they are and the folks are just not showing up. I think its the former of the two.
I saw some highlights of games in Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Washington to name a few the joints were empt as it gets, literally. Yet we go on and on reading about the premium seats in Yankee Stadium are not filled never mind about 85% of the rest of the joint is filled up.
Obviously people aren’t willing to pay the prices for those seats and if the Yankees brass want to continue to be greedy and hope for better down the line, then that is on them. They can only demand and get what the market supports. Sounds to me like a lot of folks are wishing they could have those seats at the prices they are paying for the other seats in the stadium, that is the vibe I’m getting. Even if the prices are lowered on those premium seats, how low is low for some folks.
If you’re sick of hearing about the problem, or don’t mind it, or don’t see an inherent unfairness, that’s one thing. But folks arguing that the stadium was always this way and that there is no problem either haven’t attended a game or are willfully blind. What’s going on here is extremely far from normal. Denying it for the sake of contrarianism isn’t getting us anywhere.
Most of these seats were sold for multiple seasons with price increases built in for years 2,3,4etc.
When they cut prices they will have to tear up these deals and give current customers a break on next year and the following years.
“i was in the legends seats alast night – the entire section enxt to me was empty and the 3 rows behind me – 100% empty.
That being said – it was amazing. The stadium was beautiful, and the amenities that come along with the seats are unbelievable. Maybe not worth 2500, but for the $150 seats closer to the outfield, i don’t see why it’s such a big deal, or why they are so empty.”
Which is what is my point, fine lower those prices but the amenities must go as well. Can’t expect to pay lower prices and still get the same level of service delivered right to your lap.
This blog is turning into a place for people to vent their economic woes. And many, including our beloved host at times, are fanning the flames of class warfare. I understand all of the issues involved. I get the frustration but not the embarrassment.
I didn’t become a lawyer because I love contracts… I did it because I wanted to go to Yankee games. After I graduated from law school, I set out to find a reputable law firm with access to Yankee seats. Psychotic to some, obvious to others.
I don’t live in the area, but I attended two games last week — I sat in Sec. 414 on Opening Day (I felt like I could touch the F-16 during the flyover) and in a second row ‘barcalounger’ the next day. I had the time of my life both games. My view of the field was just geography – if you’re in the stadium, it doesn’t matter where you sit. Why? Because you’re in the stadium!
I can’t figure out why a fan would be embarrassed that a stadium isn’t full. It is not a reflection on you. It is a reflection on the economy and team’s inability to audibilize. But they will work it out.
Let the market make the adjustment. Stop taking the building’s temperature every two minutes. I’m so sorry that many of you will have to go pee pee without a barrier separating you from your fellow fan. Just look straight ahead and do your thing!
We’re so lucky – we have a team that’s flawed but fabulous, great new additions, and the cutest shortstop in the history of shortstops.
While not the most articulate post, I hope you’ll keep it in mind before your next vent.
A bad question, but I’m curious – is it possible for the Yanks to buy back tickets from the ‘professional StubHubbers and then sell them for less?
I’m not even bothering looking for any tix for any games at new stadium this year – it’s a joke… going to a ball game should not cost the same as sailing on the Quenn Elizabeth… with this economy, I can afford to pay my cable bill, which will still leave me with YES, & that will have to do…
Get use to seeing those seats empty – the boom days are gone…
YEAR Attendance Att Per Game
2009 223,672 44,734
2008 4,298,655 53,070
2007 4,271,083 52,729
2006 4,248,067 52,445
2005 4,090,696 50,502
2004 3,775,292 46,609
2003 3,465,600 42,263
2002 3,465,807 43,323
2001 3,264,907 40,811
2000 3,055,435 38,193
1999 3,292,736 40,651
1998 2,955,193 36,484
1997 2,580,325 32,254
1996 2,250,877 28,136
1995 1,705,263 23,360
1994 1,675,556 29,396
1993 2,416,942 29,839
1992 1,748,737 21,589
1991 1,863,733 23,009
1990 2,006,436 24,771
Hopefully that is better
I sat in the field level seats for Opening Day (for which I paid $90 on Yankees.com)and for one exhibition game. Naturally it was the outfield but the seat WAS affordable on field level. I was 8 rows back from Swish. I also set in the 200 section (main level) and I sat in the Grandstand for 2 other games. I liked the 200 level best but I preferred the Grandstand over the field level (section 106) where I sat which is fortunate since that is where my partial plans are located. The view is excellent from the Grandstand and at only $20 a seat there are no complaints from me. The crowd is a lot more fun in the upper levels too. The field level seats I had blocked the view of the scoreboard because of the overhang.
I prefer to enjoy myself at the games instead of whining about everything and anything…it makes for a much happier life …
)
Go Yankees 2009 !!
Empty seats vs. Unsold seats. Which is it?
Fans will feel angst if they see empty seats. Nobody is sitting there? Hey, I’d sit there and root for my favorite team. Lower the prices!
Do they Yankees really care if seats are empty – if they are sold? Or even 75% sold?
Do the math.
I think they want to see how many seats are sold for the Sox series before they act.
And there was the infamous September 22, 1966 makeup game against the White Sox where attendance was 413.
My old man was a cop at the four-four in the 70′s and 80′s and we used to get in to the games for free and then scope out whatever empty seats there were- when stopped by the Steinbrenner security a flash of the badge would get us through- doesn’t look like that policy is still in effect, otherwise there’d be a lot of cops’ kids in those seats…lol.
I need to find out why this is “embarrassing” to a Yankee fan as well. Do you watch the team to look at the seats in the background? Why is that a big deal to the average fan?
I think some fans nowadays are perhaps just too young to remember the days of Don Mattingly hitting a home run into an empty upper deck. And during some of those years, the team was actually good. They won 90+ games in 3 out of 4 years in the mid-80s..and couldn’t even average 30,000 a game.
To me, this is a Yankees issue on their business side. Perhaps it’s embarrassing to them. Perhaps it’s embarrassing to those in the front office who demand a full ballpark. But to the Average Joe Yankee Fan? Why exactly would we care one bit? Do people watch the games to see how many fans are there?
The average fan is not going to be able to afford those seats no matter what they do to them price-wise. They aren’t going in the discount bin at Target.
What sucks is that we peons (by which I mean the people unable to afford hundreds of dollars a ticket) scramble to get a hold of highly scarce affordable tickets, while the seats essentially reserved for the super wealthy, to whom it is painfully obvious the front office catered much of the new ballpark, stand empty. It generates ill will among the majority of the fanbase in a “perception is reality” world. The issue is less that I specifically can’t sit in one of those seats, but that NO ONE IS. Work out an agreement with the Boys and Girls Club to stick underprivileged kids in them, put them up for auction a day or two before. The demand is there, just not at the current price point.
Due respect to the Washington franchise, but we are not the Senators, and there should not be empty seats less than a month into the season at a new stadium, recession or no recession.
People care because it re-enforces the stereotypes the “haters” are always talking about.
you can thank that business genius—–the one who thinks that he owns the yankees—randy levine for the pricing. maybe when they lower the seat prices they will also get rid of the 12 conference oms at the stadium or maybe levine is so delusional that he really believes that yankee stadium is a conference center. no company, especially publicly owned, is going to have a conference scheduled at yankee stadium in the bronx. this guy is really out of it and should go back to being a politician. the yankees need to hire a president to run the club unless hal decides to do it himself
I would add that if the seats are paid for and not being used, the number is not so great that the Yankees couldn’t contact each owner and try to work out an arrangement to make sure they are used for each game.
Senators…I mean Nationals. Yeah, I live in Harrisburg.
Empty seats in the rich section?
I blame the limo drivers.
When I was a kid in the mid to late 70′s, my father used to give the usher $5 and he would let us sit in the empty field level seats. It was great,we always ended up within 10 rows of the dugout!
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04......html?_r=1
Tom K-
The simplest answer is that most fans have a hard time reconciling the harsh reality that professional sports are a business and not JUST a game. The professional leagues and the organizations within are corporations that try to maximize profit. This is not to say there is no correlation between profitability and winning, but they have every right to accept every penny the end consumer (i.e. the fans) is willing to pay for their product.
The Yankees indeed did not expect to be in economic turmoil, with most of their corporate consumers a lot less wealthy now than a year ago, and I’m sure they will take their time to assess and adjust to make what they feel is the best BUSINESS decision. How good a decision they make will determine in the future how much leftover after repaying the $1.5 billion bill the team will have to outspend everybody for players and remain the team that has averaged 96 wins a season since 1995 (post strike-era).
Because this economic downturn has consequently led to a crusade against the rich, people feel embarrassed b/c the Yankees are symbolic of the rich, and these empty “premium” seats are supposed proof of the Yankee greed and money-hungry nature. That this is class warfare is nonsense. Not having urinal dividers in the upper sections is not class warfare. Not having bathrooms at all in the upper sections would be class warfare.
I wonder what the Yankees charge for weddings?
“and he’s trying to actually effect change—you know, like a real journalist.”
Funny, I thought the idea behind journalism was to report facts, not drive a particular agenda.
It’s pretty clear that a lot of people simply hate the idea that some folks are a lot better off financially than other folks. And for those people, the Yankees seem to provide endless opportunities for spleen-venting. They hate how much the Yankees pay their players. They hate how much the new stadium cost. They hate that the Yankees try to target wealthy fans in order to maximize their revenues. They hate the fact that the Yankees don’t just let regular, run-of-the-mill ticket-holders sit in unoccupied $2500 seats (ignoring that this would destroy the marketability of those seats at the $2500 price).
News bulletin: The Yankees have a huge investment in their existing pricing structure for seats in the new stadium. They aren’t just going to chuck the whole thing after FIVE HOME GAMES because some people with NO COMPARABLE INVESTMENT IN THE MATTER would prefer to either sit in the pricier seats themselves or would prefer the look of those seats being filled when they view the game on TV. Perhaps the Yankees will eventually do something to get the seats filled — either through more aggressive marketing of unsold seats or by finding ways to facilitate getting unused tickets back on sale to the general public — but it’s not going to happen during the first week of games, before it’s even clear that this is a chronic problem.
Harold,
I see your point. I don’t disagree that the Yankee are allowed to charge whatever they want for tickets, I just feel that it’s not in their best interest to do so.
As for the urinal dividers, my rich people are just less endowed, and the Yankees put up the dividers to save them some humiliation.
BD-
If you haven’t noticed, journalism today is more agenda-driven than ever. Watch an hour of FoxNews and then an hour MSNBC back-to-back on a given night (or visa-versa), you’ll get two different takes on what the most important news of the day is.
A similar problem was present at the new Prudential Center in Newark, NJ last year, where the NHL NJ Devils play. The upper sections ($10-$35) were always full. The lower sections ($95-$250) always had huge empty areas.
They tried to fix it by offering ‘discounted tickets’ for the sections that they realized were overpriced. There would be a limited amount of tickets, and you needed a special code to purchase them.
The following season, they adjusted the ticket prices and there has been some improvement.
So anyway, the Yankees need to take a good hard look at attendance figures in each section and fix the damn ticket prices!
Clay-
Haha I can’t say I know firsthand about rich vs. non-rich endowment, so I’ll take your word for it.
However, I do agree with you that its not in their best interest to charge whatever they want, and even admittedly-so they have overcharged for tickets in this environment. But they should (from a business standpoint) charge whatever fans are willing to pay, and they need to find that number for the more expensive seats.
Would you agree that at $12 face value ($5 for obstructed), the Yankees are not charging as much as they can for bleacher seats? If they just about doubled the price to $25 for these seats, its not far-fetched to think that they would still sell these out. If not, its not ridiculous to think that they would generate more revenue from bleacher ticket sales @$25 over the course of the year than they would @ $12.
Regarding the “embarrassment” that some people here say they feel about the empty seats, those are up to $2500 seats. Even if those areas are only 1/3 occupied, that still amounts to hundreds and hundreds of Yankees fans willing to shell out $2500 apiece to see a game in April. I ask you, how many towns can boast that level of enthusiasm for the home team???
I belive in the free market, which the Yankees grossly overestimated. The Old Stadium was perfectly fine. It had all the history behind it, but the 1923 shell could not accomodate the Steinbrenner’s lust for the luxury boxes. The problem is, the types of people who could afford to pay $2500 for a ball game don’t exist any more, yet this was the demographic the Yankees were aiming for. They made a bad decision due to greed, and now they will have to pay for the results. Good. By pricing young fans and families out of the stadium, they are eating their seed corn. When the team is bad (these things go in cycles, and the Yankees appear to be on the cusp of a downturn) There will be a lot more empty seats. When you can take a family of five to a movie for a couple of hours for $50, as opposed to hundres to a ball game, what do you think will happen?
Baseball is a game of adjustments, on the field and off. The market adjusted to the Yankees. Now the Yankees must adjust to their market.
BD-
That’s not the enthusiasm I want. I define enthsusiasm as watching and participating in the game, not as making a statement about your economic status by buying an expensive ticket. I sat in a field level section last night, and the crowd was pathetic. The few people that were actually there were too busy ordering caviar from waitresses to clap or cheer. I stood up with two strikes, a Yankee Stadium CUSTOM, and was politely told to “sit down up front.” What is this, an opera? It’s nothing shot of embarrassing for the franchise.
You can take a family of 5 to a one and a half hour movie for $50 provided you don’t buy anything to eat once inside, and they do not let you bring your own food inside.
You can take a family of 5 to a Yankee game albeit in the bleachers, for $60 and see a 3 hour ballgame AND bring your own food in, if you choose to do so.
The game sounds like a better deal to me, but then again, I am not a movie person and would rather see a ballgame over a movie any day, even from the bleachers.
“Would you agree that at $12 face value ($5 for obstructed), the Yankees are not charging as much as they can for bleacher seats? If they just about doubled the price to $25 for these seats, its not far-fetched to think that they would still sell these out. If not, its not ridiculous to think that they would generate more revenue from bleacher ticket sales $25 over the course of the year than they would $12.”
Agreed, however, I’m of the belief that the more affordable you make the tickets, the bigger fan base you can create. I’m all for charging high amounts for premium seating, just don’t price out the little guy. The Yankees should be concentrating on growing the fan base, not shrinking it.
In a nutshell, they should be looking at this long-term. To use an analogy, playoff games are played at night because television makes more money when the games are at night. The result: less kids are able to watch the playoff games. More money is generated now, but you are shrinking your future fan base by having 8:20 start times as opposed to 7:00 start times.
I was at the game last night. My seats were the $25 seats in the grandstand behind home plate, in section 419. Needless to say, with all of the empty seats below, we didn’t stay there long.
We went to the Mohegan Sun Club because we heard it was free to get in and the view was fantastic. The part that took from the game was you couldn’t hear the crack of the bat, and you didn’t pay as close attention to the game as you would sitting in your seat.
We drifted in the late 7th, early 8th to field level – cushioned seats… ahhhh… soooo very nice. Right on the first base line. There were loads of empty seats, and at that point, nowone was checking tickets – of course.
All in all, there were two WHOLE SECTIONS that were empty on field level… for craps sakes, award them to the people in the grandstand/people who have been ticket holders for years and didn’t get the seats they wanted. WHY see an ENTIRE section empty on television – it looks horrible for the stadium. Empty seats, i can understand – empty sections, NO.
All in all, the stadium is a palace. I love it 100%. I can’t wait to go back, as well as hit up the hard rock (for longer than five minutes) and the Yankee Museum…
Exciting time to be a yankee fan, for sure.
Rob,
Let’s review two of your posts…
1.
Rob C
April 22nd, 2009 at 9:42 am
Dear Pete,
You’ve now beaten the dead horse regarding the shortcomings of the new Stadium.
Feel free to STOP at any time.
Thanks.
2.
Rob C
April 22nd, 2009 at 10:00 am
I’m not disagreeing that this is a big and important story. I wasn’t trying to be smug or anything like that. It’s just that it seems like for the last week, this is all we’ve heard about. I’m sorry if for me it’s getting monotonous.
I’m just expressing an opinion here. I don’t need to be told to “bounce”. Come on, guys. Isn’t debate the point of blogs?
You say “isn’t debate the point of blogs?”, yet your first post does not leave much room for debate. You are specifically asking Pete to stop. Just my 2 cents…
Laptops: I disagree that the way to increase the fan base is to sell a lot of cheap seats. I thnk the immediate effect of reducing ticket prices would be to get existing fans to go to more games (i.e., 20 games/year instead of 10). Even if the average ticket price were reduced to $20, the whole cost of going to game (including the time commitment and inconvenience) is going to be too much for the average young family with little kids.
The way the Yankees try to attract more fans is by winning, and a big component of that strategy is to generate a slug of revenue so they can pour it back into the product by scouting, signing, and drafting better players. The new stadium with its premium seating areas fit right in with this approach.
This isn’t 1935. We’re never going back to the days when people could get a seat at the stadium on the day of the game for 50 cents or whatever. The game is no longer driven by ballpark attendance so much as television, the sports media industry, and now the internet. The Yankees brass clearly have a better handle on these realities than 99.9% of fans who seem to think they have a Constitutional right to get into a spanking new $1.5 sports complex and sit wherever they want.
I bought two seats off stub hub for $22 a piece in the lower section (105). I had a great time and can’t say I felt I spent too much.
The issue is the Yanks can get the prices from a normal economy but with corporate spending slashed the way it is. Low attendance is not just a Yankee issue it’s the same way all around baseball.
People need to stop bashing the team and buy some cheap tickets off stub hub and get to games.
Pete,
Thanks for mentioning this topic. I do think it helps that the media keeps mentioning this. The media did the same with the obstructed bleacher seats and eventually they were lowered from $12 to $5.
I believe they will adjust the prices for 2010, but it might not be just field level seats. It could be an across the board adjustment. I mean the average fan typically isn’t sitting in the 1st 9 rows anyway, but the field level, main level, bleacher cafe, and the sports bar are all insanely overpriced. On the other hand, the bleachers could cost $15 to $20 and they would still sell them. The grandstand could increase from $20 to $25 to $25 to $30 and they would still sell.
It’s embarrassing to see all those Legend seats empty, but right now the Yankees have some excuses. It’s April and there’s an indoor suite. They probably won’t lower them from $2,625 to like $500. It makes little financial sense. You can sell 25 seats at $2,625 and get more money than selling 125 seats at $500 per ticket.
I could see them lowering the Legend Seats to say $300 to $1000 per ticket or simply having variable pricing. As in, cheaper ticket prices for less attractable games like weekdays in April and more expensive for premium games, weekend games, day games, and other games that would be more desirable for fans.
“hardwired
April 22nd, 2009 at 9:49 am
the answer is obvious: c.g.i. Imagine having Abe Lincoln sitting next to an Oakland Raiders cheerleader?
Knowing the Yanks, it would likely be the W.B. Mason guy replicated 1000s of times.”
Best Reply ever!
I was at the game last night as well. Here are some other empty sections taken from where I was sitting in 132, Field Level. I cant link to individual pictures from Facebook, but here is my entire second album which includes pictures of Johnny Damon, Tex, Jeter, and Mo.
http://www.facebook.com/photo......id=7800657
Another thing the Yankees might want to consider is having a membership fee for the Legend Suite. Sell them with ticket plans and for individual games. In theory, this should bring down the price for the tickets in those seats.
Some fans just want to experience sitting in great seats. Other fans might want the free food and suite access. They can still have that, but it will cost a little more.
Of course this all depends on what the prices of the ticket would be. If the tickets are $500 to $1,000 next year I’d say no to the membership fee for the Suite. As the ticket prices would still be high enough where people with tickets in those seats should still get all the food and amenities included in their ticket price.
BD,
Not really disagreeing with what you said. I just feel it behooves the Yankees to not price out the average person, that’s all.
While I also agree with you that the Yankees know more about this stuff than most fans, please remember that these are the same people that put restaurants in people’s view and a net in front of television cameras.
the picture really doesn’t make it seem like there’s that many empty seats. his section seems way more than 1/3 full (though we can’t see behind him)
looking down from 420B makes it look much worse.
At the U.S. Open they solve the problem of empty seats on the lower level by handing out passes to those in the cheap seats so they can move down. If the premium ticket holder shows up and wants their seat, you simply move to another empty seat. Believe me, fans in the cheap seats really appreciate the upgrade, it keeps the excitement level high, and then the stadium looks full on TV.
wait. so there are seats that haven’t sold? wow. i never would have known that. i should pick up a newspaper, turn on the television, or read your blog more often!
Great discussion. As a person who had the opportunity to sit a row from the field last year, I am also disheartened that those seats are empty. I don’t mind premium pricing for the best seats, but when its obvious that the supply at the current price point is much more than demand, the Yanks have to adjust to the market. I have a feeling that they are waiting it out until the summer (like the Mets are) to see if more people sign on as the season continues. But those seats are just wasted if they’re always empty.
The Yanks made a couple of overestimations. The first is that the Field Champ season tix holders in the OYS were going to renew and pay the ticket increases in the NYS. The issue with this wasn’t just affordability. I think the Yanks didn’t understand the concept of “reasonable” expenses in the tax code. Businesses will pay good money for the good seats to entertain clients, but the prices in the new stadium are excessive and some businesses wouldn’t be able to write off the entire amount.
The second was how many of the corporations that had lower bowl seats in the OYS are now in luxury boxes in the NYS. If these companies are spending $1M to be pampered in the boxes, they weren’t going to spend another $500-$2K on field seats. So everybody’s “upstairs” instead of next to the field.
The Yankees had several months before the season started to get this right, Since early Fall the US Government addressed the economic issue with a sense of urgency. Many season ticketholders were pushed around in the relocation process and the Yankees could have cared less. The Yankees have been an absolute gold mine for over 15yrs. All they had to do was leave everyone just about where they were and raise the seat prices by about $25-50. Gold mine continues with no hard feelings. The citizens of the United States are saying enough is enough. The Yankees have created bad will that could last for many years(not weeks). Once many have gone to the stadium a few times they may go less. at that point the upper tiers will also have empty seats. They’ll watch the game at home in front of a beautiful High Def Tv. Beers will cost about $0.50 with the same atmosphere(quiet) that the new bogus Yankee stadium has. Let’s face it the Yankees played a dangerous game of chicken with their customers and have lost. People should be fired over this. At the end of the day Hal,Hank,Lon, and Randy signed off on this!!
So, the Yanks have played less than a week in the new place and people are already complaining that there’s too much focus and media coverage about the empty seats??
Which is almost as convoluted and absurd as holding teabagging rallies because you’re fed up with a 3-month old administration.
As far as I’m concerned, this IS the story of the early 2009 New York Yankee season.
Been up to the new place for two games now and those empty seats AND sections practically scream at you. Those empty luxury suites too. But at least they show a little leg. Nice of them to have the good sense to keep the lights off. Every little bit helps.
$2,625 folks.
For a seat to a baseball game.
2-6-2-5
And available at tickmaster with the comically obscene $69 convenience charge.
If it weren’t so damned and utterly offensive it’d actually be a friggin’ laugh riot.
Not to mention how inspiring it must be for our players to play in front of those big blue empty recliners…I’m sure the occasional golf clap helps. Assuming they can hear it.
The silence is deafening. What a travesty.
the tickets are expensive but usually early in the season the ball park isnt that packed…also when its rainy alot of people tend to stand there they are not getting wet which can account for some of the seats that are empty…i had a bleachers ticket this afternoon and i was walking all over the stadium especially behind the field level seats
Let me get this straight. People are actually paying those obscene ticket prices, then they go to a restaurant to watch the game? (or not) Sick.
RE: “for the $150 seats closer to the outfield, i don’t see why it’s such a big deal”
$150 for a ticket to a baseball game? You have got to be kidding me. (I don’t even want to address the $2,500 per game insanity).
The whole country is laughing at the NY Yankees’ organization. Did you watch ESPN at all today?
I just paid $8 for a centerfield bleacher ticket to the first-place Seattle Mariners – in their beautiful Safeco Park.
And the funniest thing is: I heard that Steinbrenner Jr.’s real business plan was to pay an astronomical salary to A-Rod so that Yankee fans would pay huge ticket prices to watch him break the HR records. And now guess what – that’s out the window too!
Good luck, New Yorkers, with this Yankee management – maybe the greediest people in the history of sports.
abt,
It’s called the law of supply & demand. When the Mariner’s draw over 4,000,000 fans you can talk. Last night’s game against the Rays drew a whopping 19,582 to “beautiful Safeco Field”. There are 30,000 seats in Yankee Stadium priced between $5 and $45. I guess when the Mariners offer more $8 seats they might draw 20,000,
Looks terrible on TV, along with the net and mishmash of wires. They need to work something out soon, I like Sandy’s idea, give tickets to some of the plebs sitting up top in the nose bleeds.
Drive, get real. If there is such a demand for $2500 baseball seats, then why aren’t they selling? The Yankees management has reached well beyond the level of demand in the pursuit of increasing profits, and it looks like they might pay the price. They are really looking excessively greedy to the average person, whatever your economic beliefs are.
One of the reasons for this is that it is obscenely clear that the new Yankee stadium is aimed at New York’s upper crust. I understand that they might be able to make a lot more money in the short term by marketing toward the wealthy, but in the long term it’s stupid business. The Yankees are risking alienation of the portion of their fanbase that really drives the organization (the “average” person). Unfortunately, it is this kind of short term thinking that has caused some of our current economic problems.
Yankee Stadium could quickly become a symbol of elitism if the Steinbrenners continue to appear to cater the wealthy at the expense of everyone else. That would not help them market the Yankee brand.
Besides the ticket prices, the awful relocation plan, higher food prices,higher parking prices, the stadium itself is not that great a design. It’s a reach to say it looks like Yankee Stadium. How did this go so wrong? The advertisements are over the top in the park also.
People have to stop with this stupid supply and demand defense for these assinine ticket prices. Nobody loves the game of baseball more than I do. But there is no way anybody can convince me that anything over $50.00 is justifiable to pay to see a ball game, even if it is the NY Yankees.
People are exhibiting a lot of ignorance about basic economics. The fact that there are empty seats doesn’t mean the Yankees have priced those seats too high. The goal isn’t to price the seats at a level where all the seats are filled, it’s to price the seats at a level that maximizes revenue. The Yankees will make more money with $2625 seats being 1/3 full than they would with $750 seats being 90% full.
People are accusing the NYY of being greedy, but what’s more clearly on display is the sense of entitlement that Yankees fans are often accused of. The NYY are fielding great teams every year, acquiring the most sought-after players in the game, and they manage to build a beautiful, comfortable, and spacious new stadium, right next to the old one, and offer 30,000 seats at or below $45, and people are COMPLAINING because they don’t like the way some of the seating areas look on television. Sheesh.
BD, what was wrong with the old stadium ? The media did not have enough room to work? The players had to walk 200ft to hit in the underground batting cages? There were several places to eat in the old stadium and were used by many fans. Screw this idea that this new stadium offers more. The bottom line is that the Yankees were making boatloads of money in the old place. It was a great home field advantage that has been given away. This stadium may be bigger, but its really not better. 10,000 less people at every game so far!
I spent $1500 on a 50″ 1080p Panasonic plasma HDTV.
That coupled with an occasional visit to the stadium in $50.00 seats is sufficient enough. I can get a 6 pack of Heineken for the price of a single beer at the stadium.
Plus I get to avoid the trek into the city from Jersey, tolls, parking fees, concession prices, wading through piss puddles just to use the restroom, and drunken fools with big mouths.
Don’t like ticket prices? Don’t go to the game and find an alternative. My first game was September 2, 1985 vs. the Mariners. Mattingly had a couple hits, Winfield hit a 3 run HR, and Guidry won his 17th game. Even though I’ve been a fan since I knew what baseball was, I never felt the Yankees owed me anything. I’m glad King George has spent lots of money to field a great team every year but he’s never once held a gun to my head and forced me to buy tickets or spend money on games. I go to the park when I can. If I can’t, I don’t lose any sleep over it. The 50″ plasma is the next best thing.
The only time I’ll spend more than $50 bucks for a game is when my newborn son reaches the age where I can take him to a game. I want him to have the same experience as I had my first game: a few rows behind the dugout.
I was at the game yesterday with my Dad, his first at the new Stadium, my second. What I noticed is that the good thing about the open concourses is that people with upper-deck seats can stand, basically, in the 100-level for no added cost. The bad thing is that people can stand in the 100-level and watch the game. Add to that the cold rain and you get an awful lot of people standing out of camera view to watch the game. What’s odd is that while 75% of the 100-level seating was unoccupied as late as the 8th inning, security still would not let anyone down to those seats. (eventually, they did, in our case) There should be a system in place to offer an “upgrade” fee for those of us that would pay $25-$30 on game day to sit in an unoccupied seat…pay it back to the ticket holders or use it as extra revenue. Either way, its a way to fill the unfilled seats in camera view.