Rotation set for rest of homestand
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on May 03, 2009 
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A few notes from the rainout starting with the rotation for the rest of the homestand:
Monday (Boston): Phil Hughes
Tuesday (Boston): Joba Chamberlain
Wednesday (Tampa Bay): A.J. Burnett
Thursday (Tampa Bay): Andy Pettitte
Of course, it’s supposed to rain tomorrow. Joe Girardi said with Hughes and Chamberlain having pitched well, they didn’t want to skip anybody.
INJURY UPDATES: Damaso Marte said his shoulder has been bothering him for several weeks. He had an MRI on Friday and will see a doctor tomorrow. Joe Girardi said it was related to the issue he had in spring training during the WBC. “It’s weak,” Marte said.
Marte didn’t use the injury as an excuse for how poorly he has pitched. But Girardi and Brian Cashman said that the injury clearly was to blame.
Meanwhile Brian Bruney was not allowed to play catch today and was told he was off tomorrow, too. His elbow has not healed as quickly as hoped and there is virtually no chance he will be back when he is eligible on May 10. “It’s going to be longer,” he said, shaking his head. “I was hoping that wouldn’t be the case.”
Bruney and Marte started the season as the eighth-inning guys. Now it’s roll the dice time.
“It’s a tough spot for our manager,” Cashman said.
OTHER NEWS: Cashman spoke to the therapist working with Chien-Ming Wang. The report is that Wang is addressing the weakness in his hips and foot that damaged his velocity and command. I talked to CMW a few days ago and he seemed relieved to know there was a problem that could be fixed. … I asked Mark Teixeira about the A-Rod book controversy. “In general terms, I don’t have much interest in any book that dwells on the negative on somebody, whether it’s an athlete or anybody else,” he said. “But when you do what we do for a living, that scrutiny is there. Speaking only for myself, I try and do the right thing. If you do that, you don’t have to worry about it.” … Nick Swisher said his elbow was better today than it was yesterday. But playing tomorrow still seems unlikely.
SHAMELESS PLUG: I’m going to be on WFAN at 10:25 p.m. this evening with Lori Rubinson talking about the Yankees. So tune in for her show.
Well that sucks Bruney being out longer.
I’m going to be on WFAN at 10:25 p.m. this evening with Lori Rubinson talking about the Yankees. So tune in for her show.
tell her i love her
Crawford stole 5 bases today wow
Bartlett manufactured an insurance run by stealing third.
Crawford has stolen 5 bases, wonder if he’ll go for his 6th here.
Hughes & Joba pitching because they’re outpitching the rest of the staff.
Hughes and Joba vs. Boston will be fun
There it is #6 for Crawford. In this game.
Delcarmen and Ramirez both allowed their first ERs of the season today
So how is the blood plasma procedure Nady is getting any different than using steroids/hgh to recover from an injury. Steroids obviously help build muscle which might or might not let you hit more home runs but they are also used to heal. MLB condemns using them for both purposes. Why don’t they just ban all medicine?
Crawford just stole his ML record-tying 6th base. 8 swipes for TB on the day.
For all you Red Sox worshippers out there, you should see how Tampa’s speed is twisting up the Red Sox vaunted infield.
Looks like us vs. Angels teams’ past.
Lol.
Wouldn’t be shocked to see Joe start Molina in both games after watching this
CF stats, guess who?
.164 .295 .205
King at a ver high rate, too. 26 times in 10 games.
Da Gardy?
i hate to ask a stupid question, but why ddn’t the yankees measure chien ming wang’s leg strength before he started spring training.
it’s obviously measurable because they’ve done it now after the fact.
Going to the game on Tuesday. Would love to see Joba plunk Youk.
The Varitek Truthers must feel vindicated.
Nice Nick.
“The Varitek Truthers must feel vindicated.”
==============
On the other hand, those Julio Lugo Truthers…
Bo knows
May 3rd, 2009 at 4:41 pm
“Maybe not ice skating, but that’s not a sport anyway”
As compared to Golf and Speedway. Now there speaks a true voice of ignorance.
——————————————————————————————
Trying to just stand up on two knife blades is tough….then try to move so your azs isn’t dragging the ground. Forget jumping and dancing on them. My first wife was an ice skater. Great legs and ankles.
I hate the WBC. Absolutely hate it. Marte getting hurt is just another reason why I hate it.
That procedure Nady is undergoing works. A friend of mine who lives in my CC community had a similar injury and was out playing golf again, pain free, in a month. Good luck to X on it.
LOVE the fact they have Hughes going against the Sox. I’d like to see how he will stack up against a patient lineup. Go after them Phil!
Bruney? A shame but, not unexpected. Don’t expect him back until Late May at the earliest and that will be for 7th, not 8th inning duty.
As Pat M said in the other thread, moving day for the bullpen is Memorial Day.
They will do what they have to do by then to fix the ‘pen at that time. Especially if Wang and Hughes do their part and get back to pitching up to standards (Wang) and continue to pitch well (Hughes).
Brian Cashman is a lot of things. A survivor being top on the list.
There is NO WAY he is going to have the bullpen sink this season without doing what he has to do to fix it.
The best part about that play was that the fan is weating a Longoria shirt. Now he needs to get Evan to sign the ball.
LOFL…the Bartman wannabe was even wearing a Longoria tshirt. Too funny.
Longoria furious about fan interference on foul pop by Ellsbury, looking like Gardner North.
Fan is contrite and embarrassed, sitting there in his Rays garb. Kind of sad. At our place, such a fan would be booed for cheating us of an out, and they’d be correct. Can’t expect that kind of sophistication from Rays fans.
randy I – good question.
I recollect a year or two ago, asking Pete about the Yankees’ whole physical conditioning and training program. As I recall, Pete said, in not so many words, that it was a bit behind the times, and that Cash was trying to get the organization as a whole to address it. If so, I hope this makes the point crystal clear that, if you’re going to invest millions in atletic performance, you best try to optimize the performance of the athletes.
Great post SJ, agree with everything.
The bullpen is going to get the makeover we need by the end of the month hopefully.
” My first wife was an ice skater.”
gb7-
wow talk about being on thin ice.
SJ, I still wish the Yanks had made a run at getting Mike McDougal when the white Sox released him. Give him to Nardi Contreras to work with.
“i hate to ask a stupid question, but why ddn’t the yankees measure chien ming wang’s leg strength before he started spring training.”
Wang himself seems to have the answer to many of your questions regarding what’s been going on:
“The Yankees have said Wang’s problem is weakness in his hip muscles caused by the sprained foot. Saturday, the righthander confirmed that stiffness in his right foot threw off his mechanics as he stumbled through three starts to an 0-3 record with a 34.50 ERA.
Wang said his back “leg came up and I was getting to the front (foot) too quick.” Pitches he was trying to keep down in the strike zone were coming in belt high and hittable as a result. “He can’t push off,” said organizational pitching guru Billy Connors. “That’s where you get your push and your torque. His pitches were up in the zone.” ”
How about that. His base was unstable and therefore he was unable to push off the way he normally does. In turn he lost velocity and sink as he shifted his weight incorrectly.
Another case of occam’s razor. The explanation that requires the fewest complex assumptions turns out to be the correct one.
Seems like Wang knew what was going on and probably wanted to try to push through it and the team was ok with him trying. That is if he even admitted to the weakness in his foot in the first place.
http://www.nydailynews.com/spo.....njury.html
“if you’re going to invest millions in atletic performance, you best try to optimize the performance of the athletes.”
joe -
it doesn’t count against the luxury tax. why not out spend every other team for this advantage ?
The name of this movie is The Invasion of the Joba Snatchers.
Clearly, no one is safe.
randy l.
May 3rd, 2009 at 4:56 pm
” My first wife was an ice skater.”
gb7-
wow talk about being on thin ice.
————————————————————
I spent most of my life on thin ice.
I couldn’t figure skate to save my neck. I could play hockey well, though. When the rivers would freeze over in Michigan, we played hockey….bank to bank.
I’m with Girardi … enough about A-Rod.
Truth or not, I don’t see any (unquestionable) reason why someone would write such a book either.
Questionable reasons, however …
On another subject, would the French doping agency dopes who recently ambushed Lance Armstrong outside his house in France be suspicious of this procedure of injecting Nady’s own blood platelets into his elbow? (yes there is a ton of sarcasm in this towards the doping agency in France) They’ve banned pro bike riders in the past for blood doping (specifically, injecting themselves with their own blood) to boost performance, haven’t they?
Isn’t it supposed to lead to the same net effect as a dose of HGH too?
Either would allow Nady to perform where he couldn’t perform otherwise, right?
(I was sympathetic to Pettitte’s general motivations behind HGH for his elbow, although he really should’ve gone to the team doctor for it)
I hope this helps Nady avoid surgery … I see nothing wrong with it. It sounds like it could be a procedure that helps all sorts of people who are injured recover w/o needing surgery.
Kontos gets promotion to AAA. Not a surprise. Pitching really well.
Bad news about Bruney – that really sucks.
Sigh Yanks pen is in trouble. Short of moving Joba to the pen, what can they do?
Not a fan of not skipping Hughes – the other starters should have been kept on regular rest
The one positive to Marte being injured – at least there is some explanation for him being so bad.
Now it sounds like he’s been hurt the entire season since the WBC.
Hopefully it’s not a serious injury.
If both he and Bruney come back healthy and Melancon is half way decent the pen has a path forward towards being usable.
They’re over .500 with Alex out, Wang hurt, Bruney hurt, Marte hurt, and the AJ and CC underperforming.
They need to get healthy, give Melancon and Robertson a shot in the pen, and then reassess what they have.
It still begs the question as to why no one with the Yankees felt that Wang’s foot was weak coming out of ST.
Its strange to me but, I’m glad they got to the root of the problem.
They really need Wang. They need his innings, his steadiness, and the fact that he gives teams a different look from what they already have in the rotation.
GB, I too would have passed on Mike McDougal. He has really looked cooked this year.
Don Cooper is one of the best pitching coaches in the game. If he couldn’t fix him, I’m guessin’ he is close to the end of the line.
Wang seems like the type of guy that tips at least 20% at Hooters.
Scott Baker took a no hitter to the 7th inning and proceeded to give up 6 straight hits and 5 runs to open the inning. Talk about losing it quick. Baker’s a damned fine pitcher. Strange things happening to the best pitchers in baseball so far this year.
Barry Zito – yes, that Barry Zito – has pitched 5 innings of 1-hit ball.
Regarding what the rainout does to the rotation — Given Joba’s inning limits, and how tired & suspect the bullpen is, would it make sense to have Hughes and Chamberlain scheduled to each pitch about 4 innings, and keep everyone else on their normal days?
Carmen Angelini is a fine young short stop
Betsy
May 3rd, 2009 at 5:03 pm
Bad news about Bruney – that really sucks.
Sigh Yanks pen is in trouble. Short of moving Joba to the pen, what can they do?
Not a fan of not skipping Hughes – the other starters should have been kept on regular rest
===========
Oh no, I was hoping the Yankees would do the correct thing, and that is to name Hughes tomorrow’s starter. Hughes & Joba back to back. They both pitched great in their last starts. Let’s go.
“It still begs the question as to why no one with the Yankees felt that Wang’s foot was weak coming out of ST.”
True. Wang might not have told them. Even when he was getting lit up he made those comments about how he watched video tape of himself this year and last and nothing seemed different to him. Clearly he was being forthcoming about that.
Alternatively the team might have known his foot was weak and still elected to give it a shot and see how he does.
If they didn’t know at all then that’s a big problem. Either Wang has to be more open about what’s going on and stop trying to take one for the team or the team has to be more vigilant about injuries. Or a combination of both.
Difficult to say without more information.
But it is good that they’ve identified the problem and that the problem makes sense.
Bruney pretty much called this. He said himself that when he was where Wang is in the recovery he didn’t feel like he could push off his foot.
Clearly that’s the case now with Wang and that’s the reason why his arm slot changed, lost velocity, and his ball wouldn’t sink.
This team needs to get through this early part of the season, get health and regroup.
They still don’t know what they have on the 25 man roster. Until they can assess that there’s no need to make drastic moves. That is no need to make drastic moves as none of these injuries – even nady’s – appears season ending. Uncertain – yes – but not season ending.
SJ44
May 3rd, 2009 at 5:05 pm
It still begs the question as to why no one with the Yankees felt that Wang’s foot was weak coming out of ST.
Its strange to me but, I’m glad they got to the root of the problem.
They really need Wang. They need his innings, his steadiness, and the fact that he gives teams a different look from what they already have in the rotation.
GB, I too would have passed on Mike McDougal. He has really looked cooked this year.
Don Cooper is one of the best pitching coaches in the game. If he couldn’t fix him, I’m guessin’ he is close to the end of the line.
————————————————————
I guess I always liked what he could do. Being big isn’t always the best for some pitchers, I guess. Hard to not like the potential of 97 MPH, though. He had a bad start this year, but was great in his games last year. Seemed to alternate, good and bad the last couple of years.
“Meanwhile Brian Bruney was not allowed to play catch today and was told he was off tomorrow, too. There is virtually no chance he will be back when he is eligible on May 10. “It’s going to be longer,” he said, shaking his head. “I was hoping that wouldn’t be the case.””
This is why you don’t DFA Veras — despite his recent struggles.
Unless the Yanks have a Sparky, a Goose, a Rags ( he threw a no-no before he became a closer like Ekersley )or a Gator, hidden somewher in the system, then in order to keeping the new Stadium from being dark in October, Joba to the rescue…..The pen situation is that dire folks…..Also the rotation is relived from always pacing themselves to go 7-8 innings…..It is what it is…
Pat M–
No.
Bring Sparky, Goose, and Rags out of retirement today and they might have lower ERAs than what we have now. (I’d kind of like to see Gator vs. Ortiz this week, actually.)
Pat M
May 3rd, 2009 at 5:22 pm
Unless the Yanks have a Sparky, a Goose, a Rags ( he threw a no-no before he became a closer like Ekersley )or a Gator, hidden somewher in the system, then in order to keeping the new Stadium from being dark in October, Joba to the rescue…..The pen situation is that dire folks…..Also the rotation is relived from always pacing themselves to go 7-8 innings…..It is what it is…
=====================
Dark Octobers? Moving Righetti into the BP cost us a pennant, maybe more than one. One of the dumbest moves of all time.
The pen situation is scary right now, but I still don’t put Joba in the pen this year.
He’s the type of starter the Yankees have been trying to find and develop for years and I don’t care how well Hughes pitches, his ceiling isn’t Joba’s as a starter.
I’m also not convinced that we’re seeing Wang pitching effectively before the All Star break. I think it’s a far too optimistic to think by Memorial Day he can be back in this rotation.
They need Joba in the rotation.
If Wang breezes through the minor league rehab and comes up and gets shellacked again he’s not going to stay in the rotation. The pen is still trying to recover from his opening performances.
Maybe Wang’s role until he gets it figured out is a Ramiro Mendoza type role.
I do think Girardi has to ween himself off the Alby track he’s been on and use Robertson and Melancon more liberally. He seems to treat Robertson like he’s fine china.
If Bruney comes back and Melancon and Robertson are pitching effectively w/Coke in his role I think it’s good enough to not put Joba in the pen. Bruney was the 8th inning guy we needed until he got hurt.
I’m not down on Melancon for giving up the hit the other night. I want to see more of him and see him get comfortable at this level.
As for Veras, I feel the same things I’m sure Cashman feels about him. You waive him and another team snaps him up and he’s a star reliever the rest of the year.
While I believe that Veras has the ability to be a top reliever, I’m getting to that point where I don’t think he will do it here.
He’s going to be the case of a pitcher we let go who goes to another team and is lights out.
Gator might be an example of NOT moving Joba. He started in the pen, but was moved into the rotation when he learned to throw the slider past people. Not fair to suggest any young pitcher will be lights out, 25-3 some season, but I’d still rather see Joba stick to the bullpen for a while longer.
1. randy I – I remember reading an interview with Mark Cuban, of all people. He made the point that, from a business perspective, it only made sense to give your employees every tool they needed to get them to perform optimally. Given the investment in a pro team, the investment is small change. Cash and the orgnanization needs to realize this and make the move. With their resources there’s no excuse for second best here.
2. Having Jose Veras blow up repeatedly is not going to help either the Yankees get over Bruney’s absence. If he can’t cut it here, then he can’t, and holding on to him in the ever decreasing chance that he will seems like false logic, at least to me.
“He can’t push off,” said organizational pitching guru Billy Connors. “That’s where you get your push and your torque. His pitches were up in the zone.”
cb-
thanks for the link and info. it does fit your original theory that wang’s high release came from being injured and having a good base.
an interesting aside to the article is billy connors being the one to be working with wang. i’m pretty sure it was connors that backed hiring neil allen back in late 90′s and pushed for allen to get the pitching coach job the year that guidry got it.
to me this is a good sign because if indeed connors and allen were close than what allen taught wang would be known to connors.
i had an interesting interaction with connors back in about 1994. i had been throwing all winter in sarasota,fl with carl taylor, the yankee bullpen catcher and their #1BP pitcher . he was trying to teach me how to throw good BP so i could get his job when he retired( he was early 50′s at the time).
he always made a joke of the most important thing in pitching is “location, location, and location” so i made up a tee shirt that had it on it and gave it to him. he asked me to make some more so i did and went up from cape cod to a yankee/ red sox game at fenway that spring to give them to him.
he also wanted me to see how to throw good BP close up so i was on the yankee bench from 3:00 in the afternoon until the game started at 7:00. the yankees has 4 bp pitchers at the time and the 4th best one threw to the guys that wanted early BP in the late afternoon.
i’m sitting in the dugout watching the early BP when billy connors comes out wearing one of the “Location, Location , Location” t’shirts. it was stretched over his belly like over a giant watermelon. he came up to me and asked me if had made up the shirt and i said yeah and he said it was great and he was going to have all the pitchers wear them.
i don’t know if that happened, but it was a good moment not to mention funny with him looking like he was at 9 months and due any minute as he jogged off to the bullpen.
at any rate , i’m glad to hear he’s working with wang.
The Invasion of the Joba Snatchers has claimed another victim.
Sorry, Pat M.
Stay safe people!
Last year at this time the Yankee’s pen was arguably in much worse shape than it is this year. Much worse. And that was with Joba in the pen.
Not only was it beat up and over pitched – but there was significantly less talent on hand.
Bruney wasn’t throwing nearly as well. No marte. No Coke. No Melancon or Robertson to throw into the mix.
All of these arguments to place Joba in the pen were more relevant last year than this year.
The pen was worse last year. But somehow they survived moving Joba to the rotation and still figured out the pen. They wound up having the most valuable pen in baseball last year despite the early season turmoil.
And not only was there no one savior who came to the rescue they performed that way while putting Joba into the rotation.
This year injuries appear to be a much bigger issue for the pen than last year. Marte has been hurt all season. Bruney is now hurt. After Mo those were supposed to be their second and third arms in the pen.
They just need to see what shakes out with time.
The pen was in much worse shape last year and evolved into the highest performing part of last year’s team.
I can’t believe that the whole Joba to the pen conversation is going on. Girardi said he’s in the rotation, then he’s in the rotation. IF he can continue to pitch like he did in his last start, THAT is where he belongs. If Bruney didn’t get hurt and was pitching like he did in ST, then no one would even be talking about this.
THAT being said, the Yanks are still short in the BP. Veras has to go to AAA. He’s like gasoline to the fire. He does have great stuff, but he doesn’t seem to attack hitters with it. Maybe a few weeks in Scranton would help him out. Let’s hope that Melancon can pitch well and take that 8th inning spot until Bruney gets back.
David Phelps is pitching for Charleston. 2 innings with 6 hits, 6 runs, 2 walks and 2 strikeouts. Ugly inning. all of the hits, walks and runs came after the first two batters in the 2nd made outs.
David Adams is hitting everything. Has another double (13 and leads the league)
By the way – Joba’s era right now is 3.13.
That would be the lowest on the entire staff so far.
He’s 23. Has the lowest ERA on the staff and hasn’t even pitched his best baseball.
And he’s the one to take out of the rotation and put in the pen?
Andy S
May 3rd, 2009 at 5:34 pm
I can’t believe that the whole Joba to the pen conversation is going on. Girardi said he’s in the rotation, then he’s in the rotation. IF he can continue to pitch like he did in his last start, THAT is where he belongs. If Bruney didn’t get hurt and was pitching like he did in ST, then no one would even be talking about this.
THAT being said, the Yanks are still short in the BP. Veras has to go to AAA. He’s like gasoline to the fire. He does have great stuff, but he doesn’t seem to attack hitters with it. Maybe a few weeks in Scranton would help him out. Let’s hope that Melancon can pitch well and take that 8th inning spot until Bruney gets back.
————————————————————
For at least the 10th time in the last week, it has been posted that Veras can not be sent to the minors. He has no options.
The point with Veras is that there’s no advantage to dumping him. Even if he’s relegated to mop up duty for awhile, it’s still better to hold all your cards until injury issues are resolved. Veras would be taken by another team in a second — and probably by a team that has a better bullpen era than the Yankees do now. You dump Veras — then let Clagett or Jackson or Tomko pitch? After a few outings you’ll be saying “send down” all those names too; but you won’t be able to undo the Veras move at that point.
New Joba Rules:
1) Stay in the rotation
2) Throw strikes
for anyone in nesn territory , they’re beginning to talk about the upcoming series with the yankees.
it’s great fun on this rainy day to listen to nesn because no matter how many ways they spin it they lost today.when they lose is the only time i watch it
CB
May 3rd, 2009 at 5:40 pm
By the way – Joba’s era right now is 3.13.
That would be the lowest on the entire staff so far.
He’s 23. Has the lowest ERA on the staff and hasn’t even pitched his best baseball.
And he’s the one to take out of the rotation and put in the pen?
————————————————————
I’ve mentioned it earlier and before that I’d like to see the pitchers in the roation use their throw day to pitch an inning in the games when needed. Lengthen the bullpen and the normally wouldn’t throw more than 20 pitches in an inning.
Pat M, to repeat a question from earlier, what happens if come late May Joba is pitching the best in the rotation? As CB points out, Joba’s ERA is the best of the starters as is. How can you remove your best starter to put him in the pen?
CB,
We couldn’t agree more on this issue about Joba. This is such a no brainer and it actually makes my blood pressure rise when people suggest the opposite.
However, I’m not confident that cooler heads on the front office will prevail if the pen continues to be spotty in another month and Wang comes back and pitches like Wang.
I know Girardi and Cashman believe his ceiling is the highest in the rotation but I’m sure there are several short-sighted minds in the organization who have Cashman’s ear and he just might cave.
I’ve always been ambivalent about Cashman. I neither love him nor hate him. He’s done some good thing and several bad things as well just like any other GM.
However, if Cashman caves and moves Joba back to the pen and kills this kid’s chances to develop into an elite starter – I will never forgive him for it and my opinion of him will take a turn for the worse.
Rags set the record for saves at one point, and the reason for they didn’t win divisons titles back then was due to the front office trading away quality young arms for washed up starters…..Remember Rick Rhoden anyone ??? It’s not what you want to do with Joba, but if things continue in the pen, it maybe the only option…..Besides, what’s so wrong having the next Rivers throwing in the 8th…Sometimes things do not always go as planned….They do have some outstanding starters moving up….Don’t like it, but 2 years without a postseason and Cashman & Giradi are collecting unemployment checks
David Phelps has a 3 up, 3 down 3rd inning
Wow you don’t think Nick will play even tomorrow?
Poor Nick.
Barry Zito has just pitched a shutout into the 7th inning for his third consecutive start. In doing so, he lowered his ERA to 3.99. Not where Joba is yet, but he’s getting closer (in a pitchers’ park in the NL West).
well what do you do if wang comes back and hughes is lights out in his starts? you can’t have 6 starters. someone is out of the rotation.
Rivera could take care of this issue of his replacement if he’ll pitch long enough for his kid to grow up. Gotta be a pitcher somewhere in the family.
Of all starting pitchers who have thrown at least 20 innings so far this season Joba Chamberlain has the 15th best ERA in the American League so far.
That’s right. Only 14 other pitchers in the AL have a better ERAs than he does.
Of those 14 pitchers with a better ERA how many pitch in the AL East? Three.
And Joba hasn’t pitched as well as he can.
He’s 23. And having the 15th best ERA in the AL and the fourth best ERA in the AL East warrants him getting removed in the rotation because he’s be more “valuable” in the pen?
“So how is the blood plasma procedure Nady is getting any different than using steroids/hgh to recover from an injury. Steroids obviously help build muscle which might or might not let you hit more home runs but they are also used to heal. MLB condemns using them for both purposes. Why don’t they just ban all medicine?”
I think it’s because you’re using your own blood to help you heal. I don’t think it’s unhealthy for you. Not only that, kids can’t go out and buy it and take it like they do with steroids which are very unhealthy.
randy l.
May 3rd, 2009 at 5:52 pm
well what do you do if wang comes back and hughes is lights out in his starts? you can’t have 6 starters. someone is out of the rotation.
————————————————————
Sure, let Chamberlain make a few starts with Hughes in the pen and taking a start from Pettitte. Have Hughes in the rotation doing the same and taking one of wang’s starts. Do it for all of the rotation. keep everyone fresh, control Hughes and Chamberlain’s innings.
CB, it’s a tough call…..The prospects of having no October baseball is not a tolerable option for the Brothers Steinbrenner…..
The pen has 1 month to prove itself that this early season swoon was a fluke.
Only when Wang comes back and has a couple of good games, can this even be done anyway. So there’s still time.
Even Cashman said yesterday that the pen has to fix itself or he has to fix it. He knows judgment day is coming.
gb7-
that sounds fine to me, but hughes would not likely pitch every 5 days doing this. i have no problem with a young pitcher being in long relief in the bullpen if they’ve paid their dues in the minors and know what they’re doing. jim plamer did it that way and it didn’t seem to hurt him.
CB,
exactly, joba is a starter period.
and hes only one person, how is he going to change the bullpen? you cant throw him out there everyday.
I realize Joba has the lowest ERA, but I think that’s skewed by the fact that others have pitched better and just had one game where they completely blew up. Joba really hasn’t been that great outside of his last start – he’s really struggled. That’s apropos of nothing as I think he has to remain in the pen if the Yankees are thinking of his future and theirs.
I just don’t know what the Yankees can do to survive this period. Bruney is out for awhile and it is obviously more serious than we thought. Marte is the same. Melancon will be ok (not great) more often than not, but even if Robertson pitches, is he going to be reliable? The pen really scares me.
“However, if Cashman caves and moves Joba back to the pen and kills this kid’s chances to develop into an elite starter – I will never forgive him for it and my opinion of him will take a turn for the worse.”
Guiseppe,
I couldn’t agree with you more. I feel like we’ve entered this parallel baseball universe with some alternative set of rules that don’t make sense.
A major part of the argument for sending Joba to the pen is that he hasn’t been “as good” this year in the rotation. That he’s “not the same pitcher.”
Yet he has the best ERA on the staff.
How is moving him from the rotation going to solve a problem?
He is literally the best young pitcher in the organization over the past 40 years. Guidry was not as good when he was 22/23 as Joba is. Righetti wasn’t even close to as talented.
If this season is one of such desperation, if the pen has already been deemed so hopeless that a starter needs to be moved to the pen then I still haven’t heard a compelling reason for why AJ Burnett should be sent to the pen.
If the entire season depends on moving a starter to the pen then Burnett’s contract is completely irrelevant. It’s a sunk cost.
But no one would think of moving Burnett to the pen because the idea is absurd.
But somehow with Joba an completely alternative set of rules seems to apply.
No young pitcher in recent baseball history has be over-scrutizined and over-dissected in this way. Only other one who comes close is Mark Prior and his mechanics and that only happened after he started getting injured.
Cashman has to deal in reality… not fantasy where Melancon is this lockdown stud, Veras finds his control, Marte pitches like he did in Pittsburgh, Edwar pitches like he did last yr etc.
He knows he has to win. Girardi knows he has to win. Hal himself said at the Teixeria press conference he expects to play in October and isin’t thinking about what ifs.
Unfortunately, cooler heads will NOT prevail in this instance. Not when jobs are on the line and there is this much pressure.
“Carmen Angelini is a fine young short stop”
Too bad his looks can’t buy him a throw to 1B
I’d try him out in CF soon.
Pat M
May 3rd, 2009 at 5:48 pm
Rags set the record for saves at one point, and the reason for they didn’t win divisons titles back then was due to the front office trading away quality young arms for washed up starters
=========
Rags never had a postseason save. There’s a reason for that. The “quality arm” that mattered most was put in the BP, because George went nuts after Gossage bolted. So much for a guy who could have won 15-20 games for us.
———————–
I can’t believe the Yankees would really consider this, so I’m just going to tune this stuff out on Joba. Now I have to filter out two downhill trains: tune out the Joba-to-BP talk and the Selena crap. I’ll worry about Joba if Girardi or Cashman gives it credence.
Joba had a very good game in Kansas City. Swisher made that big error which led to 2 extra runs, but he only was charged with 1 earned run in 6 innings.
And he wasn’t great against Boston, but he did pitch the best of any of our starters that weekend.
He really only had one “bad” game against Cleveland.
Joba has the disadvantage of playing in the instant feedback era, courtesy of ESPN, FAN, and the ilk….
CB, Giuseppe, others – “parallel universe” is the perfect way to describe it. I realized what CB was doing this morning with the idea of AJ to the ‘pen. The data about Joba’s ERA continues to make the point.
It is an issue only because of the troubles of the rest of the staff. It makes as much sense as the swine flu hysteria.
Don’t get me started on that.
Hey, I couldn’t agree more CB. Saying that, really – what do you do with this pen? This is a good team – a very good team, but how often can they keep coming back? At some point, I wonder if they’ll get deflated. I’ve been disappointed in CC, but he’ll eventually get back to form. AJ’s been solid, but you know he’ll start to heat up . I’m not worried about Andy and Joba will be Joba – a great 5th starter. If none or most of this happens, then the Yanks are sunk anyway. I just don’t see any way out with the pen. A month is along time. I think Veras needs to have his mechanics reworked but in the meantime he’s useless.
I don’t know if I want to blame the Yankees for not handling Marte’s injury properly in ST, but I’m so frustrated right now. The pen could very well derail a very good team and that concerns me.
SO bad decisions are ok when jobs are on the line?
Joba was walking a tight rope in the Red Sox game, but so was Burnett in the Baltimore, Cleveland, and the Angels game where the other team could have easily scored more runs. And AJ was dreadful in the Boston start.
Joba has pitched better than AJ AND CC so far this year. It may not be impressive but he is leading the starters in ERA WITHOUT his best stuff.
“Sure, let Chamberlain make a few starts with Hughes in the pen and taking a start from Pettitte. ”
Were the yankees to actually have this problem of having too many major league quality arms for the rotation (huge if…) then this is the idea that makes the most sense.
Send Hughes to the pen and use him in the classic swing may development role.
Wang is going to be out another month. Hughes will have made around 10 starts by then and will be up to around 60-70 innings.
They can use Hughes out of the pen for games when the starters only give them 5-6 innings.
Hughes will easily get over 100 innings this season that way.
And that’s not even counting spot starts Hughes will need to make when Joba hits his innings limit and/or Pettite’s arm gets tired and needs a rest (which it most likely will…).
They’ve already screwed around with Joba’s development way too much to move him to the pen. That’s why Hughes to the pen makes much more sense.
Hughes has already thrown more innings in a season than Joba has.
Joba has to be in the rotation this year or you’ve screwed up his chance to be a starter long term.
That’s not the case at all with Hughes.
That’s why Hughes to the pen makes much more sense.
when wang comes back , hughes to the bullpen as a swing man and spot starter makes sense to me.
having a solid swingman in the bullpen would pick up the slack in the bullpen and the whole bullpen would be fresher. pitchers wouldn’t be exposed pitching more than they should be.
Bottom line -
They are not going to watch their season go down the drain because of this crappy bullpen with Joba sitting there.
Like the other guy said, the guys still have time to right themselves. Melancon still has a chance to step up. Robertson will get the chance. Coke will get the chance etc. Without Bruney for a while, these guys will get their chances. It’s up to them to make the most of it and end this “Joba to the Pen” talk.
But the bottom line is that this is our best pen right now. People begged for Melancon to come up, now Melancon is up. People begged for Robertson to come up, Robertson is up. People wanted Albie in ST to make the team, he did. Our best arms are up here. There is nowhere else to go to fix the pen but to Joba. So the present guys need to step up.
Hughes to the pen does sound like an intriguing idea.
You can’t use him as a long man though, you’re going to have to use him as a “relief ace” of sorts. For example… on Friday, when Andy was getting shelled in the 6th, you use him to get the final out and pitch the 7th. In the Sox game, when Burnett gave up the grand slam to Varitek in the 4th, you bring him in to stop the bleeding and pitch as many as 3 innings.
If you’re going to use him in med-high leverage situations, then it makes sense. If he’s only going to pitch him in blowouts, then it is kind of a waste.
Say Hughes keeps on pitching well.
Say Wang has some strong rehab starts and then comes back and pitches well in the majors and then does it again.
Say they move Joba to the bullpen.
Two weeks later, AJ feels a pop in his elbow.
Then what?
Go out and get a closer off a bad team like
Kerry Wood, Francisco Cordero, Houston Street, Jose Valverde, Matt Capps, etc.
They are not going to watch their season go down the drain because of this crappy bullpen with Joba sitting there.
————
Joba by himself can’t be the savior. Two or three arms have to step up.
It’s also up to the manager to give these young kids like Melancon and Robertson a chance to get regular work instead of managing the pen like Torre did and living and dying with the veterans like Veras, Edwar, and Albaladejo.
“Say they move Joba to the bullpen.
Two weeks later, AJ feels a pop in his elbow.
Then what?”
that’s why i like the idea of hughes as swingman because his arm will stay stretched out if something happens and he needs to go into the rotation.
taking a short relief guy back to the rotation is a risky business if done too fast.
“Say Hughes keeps on pitching well.
Say Wang has some strong rehab starts and then comes back and pitches well in the majors and then does again.
Say they move Joba to the bullpen.
Two weeks later, AJ feels a pop in his elbow.
Then what?”
That’s whey you keep Joba in the rotation.
“Say they move Joba to the bullpen.
Two weeks later, AJ feels a pop in his elbow.
Then what?”
This is one of the major reason why you can’t move Joba to the pen.
You move him to the pen and either AJ gets hurt or Andy’s shoulder starts bothering him then people are going to be clamoring for Joba to go back to the rotation.
The only time the Joba to the pen debate stopped last year was when Wang got hurt last year and it became crystal clear how fortuitous it was that they’d shifted him to the rotation. It was obvious how much more difficult it is to find a good starter compared to a reliever.
Move Joba to the pen and Pettite or AJ gets hurt then they are up a creek.
Unless people think having Hughes and Kennedy back in the rotation in the second half is the solution.
I don’t think so, Nick. It’s up to the Yankees to figure out what to do without deviating from their plan in desperation. Perhaps they should have been more careful with Marte……..or Bruney.
I have a question for you guys. I see several of you guys want to put him back in the rotation. If that is the case then, are you making this a long term deal then? Because once you put him back, your setting the process back by so much; he will never be able to reach the innings he needs for next year.
Just curious if this a long-term or short-term deal.
Girardi did trust Melancon, and probably trusted him too soon. He has made 3 appearances. Two of them he had the bases loaded when he faced a batter (one on his own doing obviously).
And Robertson is no savior. The guy walked 4.5 per 9 in AAA and MLB last year. How is he different than Veras? He is the flavor of the month now. First it was Coke, then Albaladejo, then Melancon, now Robertson. Then when he fails, it will be Mike Dunn or some other AAA reliever.
Say Hughes keeps on pitching well.
Say Wang has some strong rehab starts and then comes back and pitches well in the majors and then does it again.
Say they move Joba to the bullpen.
Two weeks later, AJ feels a pop in his elbow.
Then what?
————-
I made this same point the other day, but my argument was Hughes himself and his durability issues. He hasn’t pitched a full season since 2006.
Then you’re fifth starter is now Ian Kennedy or Alfredo Aceves. Now you’ve got much bigger problems because you have an unreliable arm taking the ball every five days.
A month ago, the Yanks had too many outfielders. It took all of 8 games to change that with Nady going down.
They also had too many bullpen arms and had to send down Melancon and Robertson. Now they don’t have enough with Bruney and Marte going down combined with the ineffectiveness of guys like Veras, Edwar, and Albaladejo.
CB, how is it not messing around with Hughes to ask him to come out of the pen ? To be honest, the Yankees haven’t done a good job with him either. I know fans only think of Joba when they talk about developing young pitchers, but Phil is a huge part of their future as well – they ought to pay attention to his development as well. Being rushed up twice in 2 years is not ideal – then shuttling him to the pen? I don’t get it.
Edwar and Veras did well for us last year.
Why shouldn’t they have a longer leash than an unproven rookie?
Now we’re finding out that they not very reliable, but you can’t blame Joe for giving them a long rope to see if they could reclaim last year’s magic.
Hughes as a swing man makes a lot of sense.
More sense than Joba there. Joba is a HUGE part of our future, you can’t take his starting spot away from him
And Robertson is no savior. The guy walked 4.5 per 9 in AAA and MLB last year. How is he different than Veras? He is the flavor of the month now. First it was Coke, then Albaladejo, then Melancon, now Robertson. Then when he fails, it will be Mike Dunn or some other AAA reliever.
————
Nobody has said Robertson was a savior. They only need him to be effective and he can’t do that when his best pitch is a “feel pitch” and isn’t getting enough work.
Besides, Robertson’s walk rate was considerably better this season. He was more aggressive pounding the zone in ST and in Scranton and he was nearly unhittable.
You can’t give Robertson one opportunity to pitch and then let him rot for 6 days.
Melancon also should have been left in the game after that 6th inning on Friday. He didn’t throw that many pitches and they were losing by a couple of runs.
Maybe we can bring back Rasner from Japan
I do not like the idea of Phil pitching 2/3/4 innings at a time. How is that good for his development? ugh – that’s probably what’s going to happen. He really would have been better off with the Twins.
Gates, therein lies the rub. Now it’s only about Joba’s development? Phil is a huge part of this team’s future. If the Yankees are not going to treat him as such, then trade him. This kid is going to be an excellent pitcher in his own right…..
“how is it not messing around with Hughes to ask him to come out of the pen ?”
I never meant to imply that it wasn’t messing around with Hughes’ development.
It will be. But not nearly as much as it would for Joba.
They move Joba to the pen now good chance he’s a reliever for the rest of his career. There are only so many times you can move a young pitcher back and forth. Ask Brandon Marrow who the M’s just wasted jerking around.
My preference would be for the pen to be great, Wang to come back full strenght and for hughes to spend the year in AAA and perhaps come up when Joba hits his innings limit.
I’d only move hughes to the pen if he was lights out and the pen needed help. And it looks like the pen will need help.
It’s a comprimise not an optimal solution. But if they put hughes in the pen and get him over 100 innings this season (which they can…) he can go to winter ball and get more innings.
Hughes will still be set up to enter the rotation next season probably with a 170-180 innings limit.
They take Joba out of the rotation now and they’ve likely set his development back permanently.
With Hughes it’s a sub-optimal solution. With Joba it’s a disaster.
For all the outsatnding staters the Yanks had during the great run in the 90′s and beyond, we all can agree the most valuable component to those teams was Rivera himself…..How often does a Rivera, Ekersley, Sutter type pitcher come along as opposed to a outstanding starter….Do you think Joba has a chance to be a HOF starter or closer ??? He can control the outcome of 40 games right now…..I would love to see him remain as a starter, but right now his value to the team may end up saving games as well as this season…..The pen has already lost 3 games directly, and due to it’s debacle, has played a hand in 3 more at least….The 09 season may depend on this …..Tough call….
Not sure if this has been said but Selena Roberts will be on the MLB Network with Bob Costas at 7.
betsy. i think there’s a difference with a young pitcher being a swingman than being an 8th inning guy. masterson is doing it with the red sox and it doesn’t seem like it’s hurting him. jim palmer did it. johan santana did it.
as gb7 said, he’d get a lot of start too as the season goes on.
It will be interesting to see how effective Lester will be tomorrow night assuming the game does not get rained out.
He has been kind of shaky so far this year, but in his last game he seemed to get better after the third inning.
I am wondering if the Sox had him pitch too many innings last year.
Should be a great game though with Lester and Joba.
About time that Mahlanson stepped up
He could put an end to the “Joba to the pen” talk
He was highly touted and supposed to be this stud. Time for him to show it.
Mahlanson-Bruney- a healty Marte. Sprinkle in some Phil Coke.
Not great by any stretch, but not terrible. We could probably win with that pen.
It’s also up to the manager to give these young kids like Melancon and Robertson a chance to get regular work instead of managing the pen like Torre did and living and dying with the veterans like Veras, Edwar, and Albaladejo.
============]===============
Girardi already has said Melancon will be used in high leverage situations. He defended his move bringing him in vs. Angels. Kid is not here to be an also-ran in the pen.
Are you guys crazy?
Hughes and Chamberlain need to pitch as starters, in the majors or in Scranton. After their limited use last season, they need to build endurance and arm strength. Going to the bullpen only delays that process for another year.
Beyond that, pitching out of the bullpen requires a complete change in preparation and how they use their arms. You’re inviting injury in young players by doing that.
They are starters, period. They get every chance to prove that and if they fail, then it’s to the bullpen. Not before.
If the bullpen can’t fix itself, you go out and get relievers in June. You don’t risk the careers of Hughes and Chamberlain.
Ig you want the pen to be fixed, you’re going to have to sacrifice Hughes or Joba.
Right now, it is easier to sacrifice Hughes. Joba is too important long term. If not now, when is he ever going to get the innings? And if we keep jerking him back and forth, his arm is going to blow out. He needs development. He can be our Josh Beckett. Why deprive him (and us) of that?
Would much much rather see Hughes in the pen than Joba
I don’t think anyone has suggested that Phil Hughes would become a one-inning reliever, Betsy. I wouldn’t wish him to Minnesota quite yet.
Go and pluck Kerry Wood off of the Indians and let him setup MO
Awwwww, Pat. I’m disappointed in you.
The dumbest thing the Yanks could do regarding this issue is to make a long term decision to fix a short term problem.
It’s short sighted decisions like that is a big part of the reason why the Yanks have trailed the Red Sox in developing young kids, especially pitchers, and it will remain that way for years to come if they move Joba to the pen.
“we all can agree the most valuable component to those teams was Rivera himself…..How often does a Rivera, Ekersley, Sutter type pitcher come along as opposed to a outstanding starter….”
Pat M.,
Eckersly and Sutter don’t belong in the same conversation as Mariano.
Eckersley may have been as good at his very peak – but his peak as a reliever was no where even close to the sustained brilliance of Rivera’s career.
And sutter isn’t even remotely close to Mariano.
Neither Sutter nor Eckersley would have been the MVP of that yankee dynasty.
Mo is a complete outlier. You can’t assume Joba would have that kind of success as a closer, a role in which players get hurt and burn out in rapid fashion.
And Eckersley career is the epitome of how it’s so much easier to pitch out of the pen than it is to succeed in the rotation.
You’ve spoken very highly of Tom Seaver and Nolan Ryan when they were young.
Do you think it would have been a good move if the mets had moved Seaver to the pen out of short term need? How about Ryan?
Those would have been disastrous moves both for the franchise and for the player.
“Should be a great game though with Lester and Joba”
Lester vs Hughes
but Pete, if you take their starters and move them all in the bullpen, you can pitch each of them for two innings everyday and just build it like that. Theres no point in having 5 starters. All we need are a handful of relievers.
Thanks Trevor….I messed up with who you guys have going tomorrow night. Still will be a good one with Hughes on the mound.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....;year=2002
santana was twenty three.
it didn’t seem to hurt him
Girardi already has said Melancon will be used in high leverage situations. He defended his move bringing him in vs. Angels. Kid is not here to be an also-ran in the pen.
———–
Yeah, but Girardi could have left Melancon out there to start the 7th since he only threw 11 pitches.
He didn’t and put Veras out there instead. Needless to say, Veras went on to give up up 3 ER in one-third of an inning and had to be yanked.
“If the bullpen can’t fix itself, you go out and get relievers in June. You don’t risk the careers of Hughes and Chamberlain.”
Completely reasonable as well and a good point.
All of these conversations about the disaster of the yankees pen are based on the assumption that they can’t make a trade.
It’s based on the idea that the pen is in such dire straights that you have to sacrifice Joba’s development or Hughes’ because you can’t wait for the trade market to form.
They both should get innings as starters. I was only saying that if the situation were to be so desperate that they had to move a starter to the pen it would be less damaging to do so with Hughes.
But again – that the situation would be so dire that they couldn’t even make a trade after Wang comes back seems remote.
ray,
I think Lester will be fine. He’s a very good pitcher. Very good combination of pitching skill and stuff.
John Farrell was completely right about him two years ago when all of the Santana trade talk came up.
If the bullpen can’t fix itself, you go out and get relievers in June. You don’t risk the careers of Hughes and Chamberlain.
—————
Well, Pete, most of us agree with you on that. But we don’t run the ball club and Cashman isn’t exactly calling us for our advice on the issue.
I hate to say it but I could see the Yankee front office panicking and moving Joba to the pen if they don’t turn things around.
As shortsighted and stupid as it is, I could see it happening.
Franco – Correct.
Cashman and the Yankees are not exactly known for their patience and rational thinking.
CB,
I think you are right about Lester, plus from a fan perspective he is a good guy so I hope he does well.
That said, I think the Sox’ pitching is not quite as strong as some people would say. Penny looked better today, but still needs to prove himself.
Who knows how effective Smoltz will be? He may start some practice throwing this week.
Papelbon has been effective but certainly not dominant and has allowed quite a few hits.
I think they were saying the other day that the Sox bullpen has thrown more pitches than any other bullpen. If that continues there will be problems from a Sox perspective.
I hate to say it but I could see the Yankee front office panicking and moving Joba to the pen if they don’t turn things around.
==================================
That is something I hope and pray we don’t see.
Fingers and toes crossed that the pen starts to turn things around somewhat soon. I’m running out of pepto-bismol.
CB, They’re both in the Hall Of Fame…..I see that I’m getting squeezed here….All I’m pointing out is that the 09 season is already showing signs of being a huge disappointment mainly because the pen is a mess and no real signs of help is on the way….CB, you mentioned what if, AJ gets hurt…What happens if a 39 year old Rivera goes down…..I’m certain the cry would be to get Joba out there….Chances are Joba will be a very outstanding starter, but we already know that he’d be the next great closer…All I’m saying is that there will be a decision to address the bullpen woes soon, and Joba is in that equation….Rivera was the greatest one inning pitcher the game has ever seen….Joba could follow that legacy….Also, had Goose been ia 1 inning closer, he’d be right there with Mo….
CB, They’re both in the Hall Of Fame…..I see that I’m getting squeezed here….All I’m pointing out is that the 09 season is already showing signs of being a huge disappointment mainly because the pen is a mess and no real signs of help is on the way….CB, you mentioned what if, AJ gets hurt…What happens if a 39 year old Rivera goes down…..I’m certain the cry would be to get Joba out there….Chances are Joba will be a very outstanding starter, but we already know that he’d be the next great closer…All I’m saying is that there will be a decision to address the bullpen woes soon, and Joba is in that equation….Rivera was the greatest one inning pitcher the game has ever seen….Joba could follow that legacy….Also, had Goose been ia 1 inning closer, he’d be right there with Mo….
Pete,
Please tell me you are watching this.
Random post. How does the MLB channel compare to ESPN for coverage?
S.A.–It’s a marathon, not a sprint. Calm down.-
you do realize that world class marathoners on average run 5 1/2 minute miles?
try to run one at that rate.
it’s not jogging.
and there’s nothing calm about running that fast.
By coverage I mean Baseball coverage, style, tone, etc …All teams.
Not a lot of teams have strong middle relief, but I think you’re going to see teams work the Yankees starters with terrific patience, knowing that if they’re gone before the 6th or 7th innings, the game opens up for them.
Joba tends to throw a lot of pitches anyway. Look for Boston to make him throw even more than usual.
“Chances are Joba will be a very outstanding starter, but we already know that he’d be the next great closer…”
The thing is we don’t know that.
Relief pitching puts strains on the arm and some pitchers react very badly to it.
The number of closer that have gone from good to burned out from one season to another are remarkable.
Take a look at Bobby Jenks veolocity now compared to a few seasons ago. Jenks is a guy Joba is often compared to.
And here’s the other thing – Joba’s success in 2007 will not be repeated in any role he assumes.
Joba in 2007 was so utterly dominant because the league did not know how to deal with his slider. That was the root cause of him being that good.
But that wasn’t going to last because the league always makes adjustments. Beginning of last season they started laying off his slider out of the zone when he was in the pen.
People are forgetting this now but Joba wasn’t nearly as good in the pen in 2008 as he was in 2007. That’s because the league made adjustments.
Joba was better as a starter in 2008 than he was in the pen in 2008.
Go back and watch that 1-0 game against Beckett. I don’t see how one can say that there’s some higher probability of him being a dominant closer vs. dominant starter.
And name me one relief pitcher in baseball who could have struck out Miguel Cabrera, the league’s hottest hitter, with the bases loaded using his third pitch the way Joba did in detroit his last start?
Perhaps Soria – but other than that there’s aren’t many, if any, I can think of.
The idea of having an arm like that in the pen is a waste.
“the pen is a mess and no real signs of help is on the way….”
How about starters getting past the 5th inning? Wouldn’t that help? The rotation has been a mess too! Improve that and the problems in the pen aren’t as glaring.
shes citing canseco lol
if anyone else is watching the live interview of selena roberts
Selena Roberts is F-d up.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=4132758
I hate Arod, but she comes off as such a moron whenever she opens her mouth. She basically has no evidence that Alex used roids in high school, and shes trying to make herself out to be some kind of psychiatrist talking about Arod’s need to be a superstar to fill a void left by his father.
This lady is a MORON.
Nick — I totally agree, but there’s zero margin for error with the starters now. If they don’t go 7 innings, they know it’s Russian Roulette time.
It still begs the question as to why no one with the Yankees felt that Wang’s foot was weak coming out of ST.
***************************
A telltale sign was given out of spring training when Wang wasn’t doing normal running with all other pitchers. Several reports said he stayed inside on a stationary bicycle to keep his legs strong to keep pressure off his rehabbed foot. They may have babied him too much.
All she is saying is physical evidence and what his body looked like.
This is pure speculation!
basically no evidence just a bunch of “connect the dots”
Exactly Evolution! How is this a book?
Pete, please defend this!
“visual evidence”
lol that is so general
Michael Young calling this all “crap”
http://www.star-telegram.com/s.....54374.html
Seems like there is a legit problem with bruney and he wont be back for a while…unfortunately
He was goin to be good, he worked out this year alot, and lost a lot of weight…HOPE YOU COME BACK SOON BRIAN!
ANYWAYS….If wang comes back in a week and half —> 2 weeks…then i would move Joba to SET UP ROLE!!!! I know everyone is probably shaking their heads…but honestly, wang is a great pitcher, just needs to relearn his mechanics (muscle memory is great, and he will be back to his form soon) and Phil Hughes has the stuff to be a number 2 starter…so having CC, AJ, Wang, Pettite, Hughes is still a great rotation…with Rivera, Joba, Bruney, Melancon, Coke, Marte in the bullpen is awesome…everyone knows that if we have Rivera, Joba, and Bruney goin…its shortens the game to 6 innings (if the starters can’t get passed that)
EVERYONE realizes that JOBA is NOWHERE near as dominant as he was in the pen than as he is in the rotation.
CASHMAN/GIRARDI MAKE THIS MOVE ASAP
So Arod could only bench press 100 lbs as a Sophomore?
I was a soccer player and a good athlete and could bench over 100 as a sophomore. He was a football/baseball player and a great athlete. I find that hard to believe. She did claim that he said he could only bench that much.
Pete, you need to make your feelings known more clearly (lol).
There’s no way either Joba or Phil goes to the bullpen. After the dollars the Yankees just committed for two established starters – How many gazillion was that, again? – to take a pass on two guys who could save the organization future gazillion dollars makes zero sense.
This is a decision about longterm planning, not shortterm panic.
she claims he looked MUCH bigger and the curves in his body changed. What kind of evidence is that? You don’t think the entire population would have seen any visual “evidence” as she claims? When the steroid story initially broke every single person was surprised BECAUSE no one ever noticed “visual evidence”.
and i would like to see that david letterman skit shes talking about where he’s shirtless and supposedly has “man breasts”
I am amazed at how much of this book aopears to be based on pure speculation.
She is using the 100lbs to 320lbs as FACTUAL evidence….does she have a journal where his daily lifting is logged?
oh and lol@selena saying “he doesn’t understand why books should be written period?”
randy l. May 3rd, 2009 at 7:08 pm
S.A.-It’s a marathon, not a sprint. Calm down.
you do realize that world class marathoners on average run 5 1/2 minute miles?
try to run one at that rate.
it’s not jogging.
and there’s nothing calm about running that fast.
=================================================
Never realized world class marathoners ran that.
Now if it was me running the marathon, it might take a little bit longer(I don’t run as fast). I would need to take lotsa breaks..maybe a nap. However, I can promise you that I would try to remain calm throughout the entire race.
People want to trade for a reliever. Alright who do you trade for and who do you give up? To get a decent reliever teams are going to actually want something in return besides a bag of balls so who do you want to give up? The Yankees could have kept Joba in the bullpen for a couple of years and made him the successor to Mariano Rivera. Who is the successor to Mariano now? Are you going to trust Bruney night in and night out? The team also thinking short term has to think long term on what is best for the whole team and I do not think Joba starting is what is best for the team in the long term.
I can’t believe she just said that Evolution
she thinks she has a “resevoir of credibility”
Ask the duke kids how much credibility she has
Bob Costas asks a great question about her sources and she beats around the bush about how she has a great reservoir of credibility.
“Concerned” about Alex Rodriguez, didn’t she claim earlier these people CAME to her?
i am literally vomiting here…he is asking decent questions and she keeps dancing around it
Lol Bob Costas is owning her
S.A.: it’s very hurtful that you want to take Joba out of the marathon and only let him run the 100 yard dash.
not an “axe to grind” just “disillusionment” – she has convinced herself this is not targeted
“I never got the sense that the people I talked to had an axe to grind”
Didn’t she talk to Canseco? As I reacall it is in writing that Canseco hates Arod
She keeps saying she had no idea Alex was on steroids, she never suspected him. HER ENTIRE book is based on how there is visual evidence from his highschool – mariners/texas/yankees years, HELLO?
CB, I completely agree that it would be a disaster to shift Joba to the pen and it wouldn’t be with Phil. I guess he’d be ok – he can pitch and he’s got a great makeup. I really am extremely high on him – I think he can adapt.It just seems a waste. Phil would have to be sort of a long – man in order not to get him off course as a starter (he’s no short man), but he’d be a complete waste in that role. Pitching 3/4 innings every few days? I just think he could get into bad habits – not using his whole repertoire, for one. He’d also have to get used to warming up differently. I’d be scared to do this for more than just a week or two. Unfortunately, the Yankees are in a bind, but if they care about their future, they will not deviate from their plans.
“she claims he looked MUCH bigger and the curves in his body changed. What kind of evidence is that?”
Most people use that same evidence against Barry Bonds. I’ve seen countless commentary about how much Bonds’ body changed from his rookie season to his later years.
CB, I absolutly respect your opions, and secondly I hear and understand what you’re saying…Bobby Jenks is a stretch thgough..I watched him in the Angel orgainization…He was an out of shape addict who would have been dreat if the strike zone was expanded by at least 6 incehes…..My question to you is, do you save the 09 season by moving him into the pen, or just hope things come around out there….Joba in the pen for 09 is a lock tight deal….Bruney, Joba, Mo…..As I said right from the go, it’s a tough call, but if things do not improve, and wins are turned into defeats, Cashman will make this call..And Joba will answer……It blows my mind to think of a rotation of CC, AJ, Wang, Joba & Hughes for the next 5 or so years, but winning in 09 is a must on many fronts….It’s business, Yankee business….
how do you check someone’s credibility?
So you are saying the replay is worth a watch?
and i would like to see that david letterman skit shes talking about where he’s shirtless and supposedly has “man breasts”
================================
This?
http://scrapetv.com/News/News%.....derson.jpg
raymagnetic,
But the whole thing about Alex for years has been that he never looked huge, he NEVER had the bonds/sosa/ortiz body change.
raymagnetic,
Good point but look at the difference in Arod and Barry Bonds. I think Bonds had much more significant changes
“This?
http://scrapetv.com/News/News%.....derson.jpg”
Thats suppose to be male pectorals? He’s slouched over for cryin out loud
Nick in SF May 3rd, 2009 at 7:25 pm
S.A.: it’s very hurtful that you want to take Joba out of the marathon and only let him run the 100 yard dash.
=====================================
Oh no no no! Keep him in the marathon. No 100 yard dash for him. The man is a starter.
Evolution
She keeps saying she had no idea Alex was on steroids, she never suspected him. HER ENTIRE book is based on how there is visual evidence from his highschool – mariners/texas/yankees years, HELLO?
——–
Based on this comment, I am assuming you have read the ENTIRE book. Tell me about it then Sherlock, because we would all love to hear about what is actually in it. If you didnt read the book, then don’t make the assumptions that you are insinuating she has made.
ok – I think I just had a lightbulb moment – MLB network is like SI’s response to ESPN…it’s mostly their people, they focus on their stories…I might be reintroducing myself to Baseball Tonight etc on ESPN
Ditto what Pete said.
“But the whole thing about Alex for years has been that he never looked huge, he NEVER had the bonds/sosa/ortiz body change.”
“Good point but look at the difference in Arod and Barry Bonds. I think Bonds had much more significant changes”
Okay, but didn’t you guys just say that noticing physical changes isn’t evidence?
Funny how this lady reminds me of A-Rod when she talks
Christina,
She is defending the book as is offering almost no convincing evidence, only that his body changed.
Christina, okay I shouldn’t have said ENTIRE. However, everything she has said in this interview so far..
I read the Michael Young interview in the dallas newspaper that was linked to, above. Very interesting, I thought.
Besides Young saying rather strongly that he doesn’t believe Alex tipped pitches to the opposition, he does say that Alex called pitches because the young catcher was overmatched doing so, and ran afoul of Buck Showalter and Orel Hershiser, the pitching coach, for doing so. Young says that if the coach didn’t like it, they should have worked with the catcher. Supports Alex. Interesting.
S.A.: Don’t bash Joba with the relay baton! He’s a marathoner!
man this ladys journalism is so loose…pathetic
She talks about how Bob Spencer the first thing he said when he came to Texas was that Alex called pitches. I think she very loosely twisted a comment about alex tipping players to his own team to the opponent.
so now she is a psychologist? And I would be interested in knowing who the “people very close to him” are that she spoke with
Nick in SF May 3rd, 2009 at 7:34 pm
S.A.: Don’t bash Joba with the relay baton! He’s a marathoner!
===============================
Now she’s talking about how his personality dramatically changed.
No words
EvoLuTioN…I think you mean Shane Spencer
Raymagnetic,
I hear what you are saying but I think the Bonds body change only furthers the evidence. I think the real evidence is that he went from 40 or so home runs to 73.
“Friends” have told her alex wants to be like joe dimaggio? her friends? is that for real?
She basically took all the gossip about Alex in the air and published it in this book.
“Friends”, “Ex-teammates”, “Sources”, “Those familiar with the circle”
Rishi,
rofl woops
so now shes talking about Alex like hes some pathetic abandoned puppy
his body changed in high school means he is most likely on steroids?
name me one person whose body didn’t change from age 15 to age 18
Sad story about his dad
This interview with Roberts is getting into the realm of celebrity gossip, not sports reporting. I really don’t care about Alex’ personal relations. As long as he doesn’t pull a Plaxico Burres, I don’t care. His relationship with his father is his own business. Sidewalk psychology maybe nice for cocktail conversation, but little else.
Is this a joke?
Meet Selena Roberts, MD in psychology now.
Also, Mo has been incredibly successful for so long because he’s the calmest, coolest, most mentally tough athlete I’ve ever seen. He realizes even when he fails that he’s done his best and he moves on from those failures…..my word, he falls asleep in the pen, lol. Mo is one of a kind – there will never be another like him. Joba is said to have a closer’s mentality, but do we really know that anyway? He’s exuberant to be sure, but there’s no guarantee that he’d hold up for a decent amount of time – he could burn out (or not, to be fair).
Why is she talking about his relationship with his father. She is really fixated on this guy.
her friends are psychologists so that means she is
Who is this lady to judge Alex’s “vulnerabilities”
I took a few psychology classes in college…..
Reinvention, so much reinvention that Selena Roberts is probably already working on “Arod, chapter 2″
So i guess that makes me qualified too! Sweet!
I cannot believe the temerity of this woman – she wants to tear him down and now take credit for building him back up…
This is not sports reporting, it’s celebrity gossip.
“He has an incredible opportunity with the good-will that is going to come”
Speechless!
“I do think there’s a very good Alex in there,” said Roberts, who spent six months reporting and writing the book. “I think the good Alex has a very good shot at winning. I think the good Alex is there for all of us to see for the next nine years. … No matter what stage he seems to go through, what sort of incarnation he seems to go through, I think that he is at heart a pretty tenderhearted person.”
======================================
Is this lady for real?
Not listening or watching this person on MLB – very disappointing that MLB would even go there. What a joke and I think she’s going to (if she hasn’t already) turn people against her with her obvious agenda to stick it to Alex via ridiculous accusations that can’t even be backed up with solid proof
“The people around him said” “My sources said” “With my litmus test”
can’t wait to hear what they say once she is off the set…
Can this be defended? I have a guess that we will find out shortly
She basically beat around answering every single question that had to do with her sources, or those that came out in defense of Alex
in this world, the burden of proof is on the accused, not the accuser
I could probably pass her “litmus test”
Fortunately, the majority of the population realizes how dumb this lady sounds.
Roberts and her publisher want to make money (what a surprise), hence the book on ARod. She actually found out something very real and pertinent, ie, the steroid business. That is directly pertinent to baseball, and has been backed up. The pitch tipping less so (I again refer to the Michael Young interview in the link, above). But the business about his father and personal relationships – that’s pop psychology and gossip material.
MLB just ran a commercial about the Ken Burns series, with tonights’ episode focusing on Babe Ruth. Now there’s a character who was a great baseball player, but also a personal worldwind with problems in his personal life, being suspended by baseball, and womanizing. Doesn’t sound too much different from Alex in 2008.
People will still buy the book though. Thats why she wrote it. Shes knows people are intrigued by Alex.
comment on her duke reporting Tom
MLB Network has strong Sports Illustrated connections… they are not going to grill Roberts
But to be fair, Costas is asking good questions, but sbe is answering it with crap
Not many people will buy this book, look at Torre’s book
why does roberts refer to alex rodriguez as ” alex”?
is she friends with him?
she seems to be saying she’s doing this for his own good like an intervention.
she dismisses michael young and glanville saying they thought no way about roberts’ version of the story
i think the woman is delusional as far as the truth goes.
she’s somehow taken the fact all shortstops signal other infielders about the pitch coming and somehow said that rodriguez did this too soon so hitters could picjk it up to say that rodriguez did this on purpose and that other middle infielders on other teams were involved.
how about maybe he signaled his other infielders too soon by mistake and then selena roberts concludes he did it on purpose.
that’s the leap of logic that roberts is making that i think is bogus. she’s taken the possible early signaling to his own teammates and turned this into some far fetched strory that makes no sense.
who are the other middle infielders involved? jeter, garciaparra, etc ?
did she even try to find out?
she’s just creating innuendo that is based on the truth of shortstops signaling their own players.
it’s innuendo that is just complicated enough that the average person can’t follow it. she says shane spencer heard he was tipping pitches. well petttitte has tipped pitches at times.
that doesn’t mean he meant to, and it doesn’t mean rodriguez was either. spencer might have meant the pettitte kind of tipping was going on. rodriguez does not say exactly what spencer said.
when things aren’t clear with someone like roberts , i think it’s because it fit with her agenda.
on a separate note. how does having major league baseball own the MLB channel create neutral journalism. it seems a bit of a conflict of interest. it would seem they push their own agenda.
Do these people realize how many times game films are watched? It should be easy to see.
why is the media standing behind selena roberts like she’s mother teresa?
why are we talking to verducci, isn’t he partnered with Selena Roberts?
mlb network = sports illustrated network…not good
Torre’s book was a NYT best seller and is currently #9, 10 weeks after its release date
And of course, how did Torre generate buzz for his book? By releasing the excerpts about how nobody liked A-Rod and called him “A-Fraud”.
A-Rod sells. Wouldn’t be surprised if there are more books in the future.
Torre’s book sold very well…
and why is the MLB network allowing the harsh criticism of one of their marquee players before any investigation is complete?
What is the general consensus then? Are you guys not believing what she wrote or are just just angry with her motives?
Sleaza Roberts will have a sequel to this book entitled “When Alex turned Eleven”.
“why is the media standing behind selena roberts like she’s mother teresa?”
That’s the problem and why this won’t go away anytime soon… the media always protect their own. Every publication will tell us how credible Roberts is and how great of a journalist she is. They will prop her up and keep this in circulation. They protect their own.
So true.
Start hitting all this goes out the window
I happen to believe everything Selena Roberts wrote. The credibility is on her side now, whereas Alex has been proven to be nothing but a liar.
Inconsistencies from interview to interview. Then accusing Roberts of breaking into his house when his kids were sleeping… that lie just shot all credibility of his.
That being said, there is no reason for this women to have a witch hunt against him. Why isin’t she finding out the other 103 names? Why is Alex the only one she is trying to destroy? This book reflects lowly on Selena Roberts… and even lower on A-Rod.
well done Bob Costas
costas = the voice of reason…
Tom is already talking about this book like its documents, facts.
This book hasn’t revealed ANYTHING.
What did Costas say? (not watching)
Verducci and Heyman are her colleagues. They will prop her up and make her the greatest thing alive.
And of course, Heyman is employed by like 10 different networks (SI, MLB net, WFAN, SNY, etc.) so he can spread the Roberts propaganda everywhere he goes.
This story has no objectivity at all. And everyone hates A-Rod anyway so they will obviously side with Roberts-
Christina,
I don’t think that I necessarily don’t believe what she wrote but I am very skeptical of how true it is since much of it seems to be based on assumptions, anon sources and she seems to have quite the agenda.
he listed the people in support of arod (doug menchadsafds, glanville, michael young etc) and said basically, Selena has no “names” – these folks disputing her claims have names and are willing to stand by what they say
plus – fans are basically like “enough is enough” he admitted it (more than anyone else), what more do you want?
I agree with Dan. The whole tipping thing has me concerned. I do believe she is pretty accurate on that stance though.
Tom Verducci with the The woman I work for is correct 100% stance.
Can the Yankees ban Verducci from the stadium?
“This book reflects lowly on Selena Roberts… and even lower on A-Rod.”
Bingo. Excellent summary.
I doubt Shane Spencer’s credibility – wasn’t he a strike scab, too?
From my point regarding tipping pitches it seemed like Reynolds said it could be done but he was not necessarily convinced that it did.
But Cliff, besides the fact many of your discredit her because of the Duke case, she is a well established reporter and knows the process that must be done in checking to make sure her facts are correct. I do not think she took one comment lightly and solely went with it. This book was a long process of her stalking him and I think she did her research.
Her motives are purely for money though, as is many peoples motives in life, and I think she has a thing against the male species, or just Alex in general.
‘I happen to believe everything Selena Roberts wrote”
dan-
everything?
you would have been a good juror for the prosecution of the duke rape case.
Michael Young didn’t say “to the best of my recollection, I don’t think he did it” – he said the allegations were “ridiculous” and “crap”…I’m going to believe Michael Young and the other guy (i forget who – the other infielder from TX) before “mystery guests 1 and 2″
and really – pitch-tipping accusors – can’t they just, instead of saying “my name is XXX and pitches were tipped to me” say “check out the film from the 7th inning of this game and you will see it?”
Christina, I agree completely but I think Costas made a good point when he said something like, what if you come across 3 people that tell you something about Arod and there are 8 others who say its not true and they will put their name on it. (Not sure if what I wrote made a whole lot of sense)
In addition, her high school accusations are based on body changes and that the dog kennell owner had steroid connections. That seems to be pretty weak support to me.
You can’t say you believe everything she says because she said no one had an ax to grind and Canseco is a source and he’s made his ax clear.
Wonder what Shane Spencer is thinking knowing him and Canseco are the only 2 voices with a face.
Tell me your worst stories about Alex and I’ll put you in the book….But I’ll protect you as a unnamed source….The depths that journalism has suken to……Alex must have stood her up for an exclusive and it pissed her off…..
I knew I wasn’t gonna be able to see the gam today. I mentioned it too much. I really wanted to see Hughes pitch.
Randy, good point about Masterson being a swing man – do the Sox look at him as a starter overall or do they think his career is as a Ramiro Mendoza type? Also, I wasn’t aware that Jim Palmer started out in the pen……..I’d really prefer the Yankees not go that route with Phil, but I guess if there’s no other choice. I’d be concerned about the method of preparation, though – it’s so much different as a starter than as a reliever.
igotid88
May 3rd, 2009 at 8:12 pm
I knew I wasn’t gonna be able to see the gam today. I mentioned it too much. I really wanted to see Hughes pitch.
~~*~*~*~*~
I got to trek all the way out there, sit in the rain for 2 hours and come back home
at least I got to take my mom and sister to Monument Park and the Museum
Showalter refuted the pitch tipping allegations as well.
And he made a really good point. He said that loyalties change in baseball because players leave organizations and reminisce about their experiences with former teammates and ball clubs.
It said it would be nearly impossible to keep something like that a secret for so many years because a number of people would have known about it and people by nature have a hard time keeping their mouths shut when it comes to locker room gossip amongst the players.
So the manager and teammates said the tipping pitches allegations are not true and Seleana Roberts apparantely has Shane Spencer saying he heard about it.
christina
does she say shane spencer said he heard arod was on purpose tipping pitches to middle infielders on other teams who would in turn return the favor, or did he mean that he heard arod was tipping pitches accidently by giving his own teammates the signals too early ? there’s tipping and there’s tipping. which one did shane spencer mean?
i really don’t like having arod on the yankees and i ‘d rather have the 30 million a year to get other players, but selena roberts is just speading low level thinking.
quite frankly, she seems to be writing to people that aren’t smart enough to see through her slight of hand with the truth.
After watching Selena with Costas, I feel bad for those amongst us who have so steadfastly defended her integrity and intelligence.
She states she used visual evidence. Alex was skinny as a rail in Seattle. How skinny must he have been in his sophomore year to be that noticeable? If you want to state that he changed physically from Seattle days to now, OK, it’s dubious still, but certainly more plausible.
As far as the increase in bench press, if you hop on the bench press, or any equipment the first time, you are going to be doing very light weight at first. Once you learn how to lift the weight, where your hands should be postioned, etc. you can make astronomical gains just by that. My guess is that Arod was capable of benching close to 200 lbs, but couldn’t because he wasn’t familiar with how to lift the weight.
I havent read the book, so all I can go by is what I have heard her say and what people who have read the book wrote. We are all making assumptions based on a lot of things we do not know.
Costas’ concluding statement gave me the impression that he was skeptical, as well – he kept talking about Selena’s sources potentially lying to her (not that she was lying but was lied to)
Betsy, Ian Kennedy is the pitcher who would fill that role…Phil Hughes is not a candidate for that at all…..I want Joba to stay in the Rotation, however The Yanks will not let the season get away from them if the pen still implodes every third night…..We’re only a few weeks before we hit the 1/4 pole of the season….Cashman will be very proactive in righting the ship…..
I can promise Alex could bench well over 100 lbs as a sophomore and that he knew how to work out. Alex was an elite high school athlete and they don’t learn how to lift as a sophomore. Especially in Florida.
Like I said in an earlier comment, I was a high school/college soccer player , Alex is a 100000x better athlete than I was and I could bench well over 100 lbs as a sophomore and weighed around 150 so I was clearly not a gym rat.
“I havent read the book, so all I can go by is what I have heard her say and what people who have read the book wrote.”
we know that she was on the wrong side of the truth on the duke rape case.
this is a fact.
people like verducci say she has impeccable credibility must have forgot the duke rape case where she was wrong by all accounts.
costas should have asked why we should believe her when she was so wrong in the duke rape case.
Pete,
What do you have to say about ms roberts after that pathetic display with Costas?
Rishi May 3rd, 2009 at 8:14 pm
igotid88
May 3rd, 2009 at 8:12 pm
I knew I wasn’t gonna be able to see the gam today. I mentioned it too much. I really wanted to see Hughes pitch.
~~*~*~*~*~
I got to trek all the way out there, sit in the rain for 2 hours and come back home
at least I got to take my mom and sister to Monument Park and the Museum
____________________________________________________
Can you just go down there? I always wanted to go but thought you needed tickets for that also.
Imagine what this creature would have thought if she had seen Mantle in 1951 and 1961. He came to the majors at age 19, 5 foot and 10 incges, 165 pounds. In 1961, he was 6 foot and 200 pounds. He was also built like an ox above the waist. 20-21 inch neck and 17 inch forearms. That’s what 10 years will do for a maturing male.
I thought Selena would have more than that; this seems more about hype than content. But Verducci’s comments were priceless. Is there a tabloid tell-all sports writer who doesn’t praise every other tabloid tell-all sports writer? He’s just vulture — backing up another vulture — because they both write exploitative books like these.
Verducci wanted to be big leaguer — but couldn’t.
Roberts wanted to date jocks like A-Rod in high school — but couldn’t.
Now they take their revenge.
Remember Robert Duvall in The Natural? Carrying the envelope of photos around? Lining up with the star of the moment — then throwing him under the bus and moving on to the next one. “They come and they go, Hobbs. They come and they go.” Maybe that’s what Girardi got upset about, huh?
jason whitlock wrote this:
Roberts’ book on A-od should be questioned
Not long ago, sports writer Selena Roberts compared the Duke lacrosse players to gang members and career criminals.
She claimed that the players’ unwillingness to confess to or snitch about a rape (that did not happen) was the equivalent of drug dealers and gang members promoting antisnitching campaigns.
When since-disgraced district attorney Mike Nifong whipped up a media posse to rain justice on the drunken, male college students, Roberts jumped on the fastest, most influential horse, using her New York Times column to convict the players and the culture of privilege that created them.
Proven inaccurate, Roberts never wrote a retraction for the columns that contributed to the public lynching of Reade Seligmann, Colin Finnerty and David Evans.
Instead, she moved on to Sports Illustrated, a seat on ESPN’s “The Sports Reporters” and a new target, baseball slugger Alex Rodriguez.
Last week, the New York Daily News and The New York Times acquired “leaked” copies of Roberts’ soon-to-be-released biography, “A-Rod.” In it, according to the two New York newspapers, Roberts paints a highly unflattering picture of Rodriguez as a human being and, among other things, speculates that Rodriguez used steroids in high school.
Roberts’ speculative opinions are deemed as so credible by ESPN and others that the Worldwide Leader ran all-day updates stating that Selena Roberts believes that it’s “irrefutable” that Rodriguez used performance-enhancing drugs while a teenager.
At no point did ESPN’s TV anchors or radio broadcasters mention that Roberts was the same person who led the media charge against the Duke lacrosse players. I listened to Roberts’ interview on Dan Patrick’s radio show. Patrick never asked her about Duke lacrosse or why we should trust her reporting.
In its news story about her book, The New York Times failed to allude to her position on the Duke lacrosse case. I’ll give the Times credit for including one sentence of clarification in its news story:
“Some of the accusations in the book are based on anonymous sources, and others are simply presented as knowledge the author has without an explanation of how the information was obtained.”
Translation: the majority of the stuff written in her book is information the National Enquirer might reject.
The national media anti-snitching campaign is twice as pervasive and effective as anything put together by the Bloods, Crips and LAPD. For the most part, we refuse to squeal on each other.
Roberts’ book is a long-winded blog. Why it’s being treated as an unimpeachable piece of journalism can only be explained by the cushy position she’s been handed by The New York Times, ESPN and Sports Illustrated and the unchallenged institutional bias found within the elite sports media institutions.
Like the Duke lacrosse players, the elite media have decided that Alex Rodriguez is fair game for abuse. Rules of fairness do not apply.
In a rush to prove its racial even-handedness, the media initially chose to swallow the accusations of a black stripper over white college students. Roberts and others made fools of themselves. They were given the leeway to do so only because lacrosse players aren’t part of the NCAA money-making machine and unlikely to be future subjects of high-profile stories.
The players were convenient, vulnerable targets.
So is Rodriguez. Like Barry Bonds, A-Rod is a threat to surpass Babe Ruth (and Hank Aaron) on the home run chart. A-Rod, a Dominican, is the dominant player in a sport that is almost solely analyzed and defined by white American sports writers and broadcasters.
It is not a coincidence that Bonds and Rodriguez have been portrayed as the worst teammates in the history of professional sports while Rogers Clemens’ and Mark McGwire’s teammate shortcomings were largely overlooked. When Clemens skipped games and road trips it was because he was a dedicated family man rather than a bad teammate.
I am not asserting a nationwide racial conspiracy against minority baseball players. I’m in no way stating that Roberts’ pursuit of Rodriguez is motivated by race. I’m asserting that the media’s unwillingness to publicly and aggressively challenge itself breeds unequal and unfair coverage.
We all have biases that must be contested. We’re all capable of getting swept up in the biases of our peers and friends.
The allegations in Roberts’ book might very well be true. But I’m not going to trust her, not without some on-the-record reporting, not after what she wrote about the Duke lacrosse players.
To reach Jason Whitlock, call 816-234-4869 or send e-mail to jwhitlock@kcstar.com. For previous columns, go to KansasCity.com.
Tom Verducci’s vouching for Selena Roberts? The guy wrote an SI column accusing Yankee management of having “blood on their hands” after Joe Torre quit at the very same time he secretly was working on a book with Torre. And when the Yankee front office cried foul over the column, Verducci denied having any current connection to Torre.
Figures he would defend the person who flat-out lied when she denied writing about A-Rod’s personal life in the book.
At any rate, given that they’re co-workers, he’s not likely to be objective.
Pat, Ian might be down the road, but I’m not sure when he’s going to pitch – he’s got that finger issue going on. Believe me, I know you want Joba in the rotation as well. There is no ideal situation here unfortunately – just varying degrees of bad (either just bad, very bad or disastrous). Cash needs to be proactive – I hope there’s a trade to be had – before the season slips away. They are in good shape now – holding relatively steady. The blessing of baseball is that it’s a long season. I will say that I really want the SP to start stepping up now – it’s about time and the team needs them to.
igotid88
May 3rd, 2009 at 8:29 pm
Rishi May 3rd, 2009 at 8:14 pm
igotid88
May 3rd, 2009 at 8:12 pm
I knew I wasn’t gonna be able to see the gam today. I mentioned it too much. I really wanted to see Hughes pitch.
~~*~*~*~*~
I got to trek all the way out there, sit in the rain for 2 hours and come back home at least I got to take my mom and sister to Monument Park and the Museum
__
Can you just go down there? I always wanted to go but thought you needed tickets for that also.
_______________
We had tickets for the game that wasn’t – I think you might be able to see them if you buy tickets for the stadium tour on yankees.com
thanks for the article abcd…would love to see some of the points he addresses discussed, as well
Verducci is a joke – and so is Heyman (and they aren’t fooling anyone)
Pete,
I have to agree that sending Joba or Hughes in the pen would be a mistake. So since it seems like Wang will have to learn how to pitch again..so should they gear him up for a position in the pen?
Is Roberts naive or wicked when she says about nobody she interviewed having an axe to grind? If you’re ratting on your current teammate for a tell-all book, you’ve got an axe to grind. And you’re not helping your team, either.
And, like others have pointed out, Jose Canseco has a huge axe to grind about A-Rod. Heck, he has been open in admitting it.
We need more ball players like Michael Young. One of the most respected has no problem going to bat for A-Rod. My favourite quote in awhile..
“I think this is all crap,” Young said. “It’s been one thing after another aimed at Alex. I’m tired of it. Unnamed people continually saying this and that. If you’ve got something to say, have the guts to use your name.”
AJ wouldn’t feel a pop in his elbow. He’s already had TJ.
Does not compute. Pick another body part, or better yet, another pitcher.
How in the world could Geren not a relief pitcher ready to go in the 13th inning after his reliever had thrown 2 innings already and now has thrown 95 pitches in 4 innings. Let him go out to start the inning but pull him when the first batter gets on.
Michael Young better be careful. Selena might decide to write an expose in his tipping habits the next time he stops in for wings at Hooters.
Betsy, You know that Cashman will do something sooner than later, as his rump is on the grille this year….In years past we had the comfort that Torre would get the team going at some piont and they’d make the postseasn…However after last season that confidence has all but disappeared….Being 4 or 5 games out Memorial Day and the alarms will be going off in The Yankee Executive Office’s….There is a sense of urgency this season, more than we’ve ever witnessed before….Jeter, Mo, Posada & Pettite are one year closer to Social Security….
I, like many of you, was shocked and saddened to hear N.Y. Yankee field manager Joseph Girardi admint that he has been less than perfect throughout his life. In fact, he said that he has told close family members that “Daddy is not perfect.”
*snifff*
Upond hearing this news, I checked with my own ananomyous sources (Stelleto and Lace), and have uncovered the sad, shocking truth about Joe Girardi:
1) In kindergarten he placed a broken purple crayon back into the box.
2) He once spoke to N.Y Yankee infielder Robinson Cano in a sharp manner.
3) He has, at times, kept library books past their due date.
4) In fourth grade he ate almost an entire snickers bar. BEFORE LUNCH.
5) After learning of one of Carl Pavano’s many unfortunate injuries, he uttered the phrase: “My buttocks!”
why even buy the book? once it is realeased all of the “juicy” stuff will be on this blog for all those who want to hear it!
Just curious if anyone has any thoughts on this:
Regarding what the rainout does to the rotation—Given Joba’s inning limits, and how tired & suspect the bullpen is, would it make sense to have Hughes and Chamberlain scheduled to each pitch about 4 innings, and keep everyone else on their normal days?
Just heard here quote in reaction to well a male does continue to mature. She says well it happened in the arc of the steroid era. You have to be kidding me. That is her evidence?
http://www.ajr.org/Article.asp?id=4379
american journalism review
How did journalists and news organizations that embraced the case respond when it fell apart? Some chose to simply move on–abandoning the story entirely or clinging to their original storyline. As of late June, Nancy Grace had not returned to the subject since last summer, according to a Nexis search. A guest hosted her program on December 22, 2006, when Nifong dropped rape charges, and on April 11, when Cooper cleared the athletes. On June 12, as Nifong’s disciplinary trial opened, Grace explored Paris Hilton’s legal troubles.
In a mystifying March 25, 2007, column, the New York Times’ Selena Roberts opined, “A dismissal doesn’t mean forget everything. Amnesia would be a poor defense to the next act of athlete privilege.”
———————————————————
so there you have it in the american journalism review. nancy grace and selena roberts linked in sleezy reporting.
Well this rain out means 2 more games for A-Rod.
Nobody would read a book about the dirty life of Joe Girardi anyhow.
On a baseball note, the Jays swept the Orioles today. This was the first team they have played in the AL East. Have you guys seen how hot Aaron Hill is? Adam Lind is doing great also.
I don’t know if you guys know about Scott Richmond, but I wrote a little blurb about him on my blog.. Check it out if you want.
He is 4-0 so far and doing decent. I wonder if he could possibly be the next Aaron Small. Hopefully I didn’t just jinx him
So why is print media dying??? Because Newspapers and Magazines have turned into TMZ and people are finally fed up with it. Self-serving, money-grubbing sleazy writers like Selena Roberts are giving a bad name to everyone in the industry…but unfortunately there are tons of Selena Roberts’ out there. We now live in a society where it is acceptable to trash other people without adequate proof.
I wonder if Selena Roberts ever heard of puberty? Could Alex have gone through puberty in high school? I’m 99.9% sure that he could have been going through puberty. This stuff is getting ridiculous! It’s laughable at this point!
But then again…could Cynthia Rodriguez and her family be behind some of these things in this book? We can’t rule out a woman scorned and anyone remember when Cynthia spoke to the Post i think it was ..she said something about Alex is going to fall or have a breakdown or something like that? I’m not Roger Clemens so i’m not mis-remembering things here but I remember reading something like that. Who knows maybe C-ROD is behind it all!
MUTINY! lol
“A dismissal doesn’t mean forget everything. Amnesia would be a poor defense to the next act of athlete privilege.”
Athlete privilege????
Selena – what are we back in high school and you are in the drama club and you are upset the math teacher is letting Johnny QB get away with a quiz . . . .
Seriously. Athlete privilege!!!!
Can we stop bringing up the Duke LaCrosse case?
It has nothing to do with this. A-Roid is a separate entity. And it was an opinion column anyway, not an investigative piece like this is.
I dunno if C-Rod was involved…I think Peter Gammons said she was with A-Rod during their interview and that they still have some sort of “relationship”.
To the Joba to the penners…..
Starter ERA….(making more than 1 start)
1. Joba Chamberlain..3.13
2. Andy Pettite……3.82
3. CC Sabathia…….4.85
4. AJ Burnet………5.40
5. CM Wang………..34.50
ERA+
1. Joba Chamberlain….155
2. Andy Pettite……..127
3. CC Sabathia………100
4. AJ Burnett……….90
5. CM Wang………….14
How are we supposed to judge her credibility without looking at her other work, Montclair?
apparently she thinks her “resevoir of credibility” based on what? I’m not sure, is enough
You guys know that Joba can’t throw 200 innings or pitch deep into October, right?
Selena Roberts? A veritable saint compared to Judith Regan… ‘Memba her?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judith_Regan
Note however that she who laughs last, laughs best. It is estimated that she settled her lawsuit for $25 million.
This year yes….however, a skipped start here and ther to keep the others on 5 days rest builds his arm strength and allows him to pitch into October.
murphydog,
You had a great post yesterday about Selena Roberts. About her hand in the rise and fall of Alexander the Great.
You what hurts the most is that Nady and Marte are on the DL and were useless when they were playing anyway and I keep hearing good things about the PITCHER we gave up for them. That stinks!
Erica- As much as she must hate him. I really can’t see her doing that to her children. She might not give a you know what about him. But whatever comes out in the book could be painful for them when they get older. Even the older one now.
This A-Rod talk is endless. You know I am bored when I am promoting my blog http://www.alleitersbullpencatcher.blogspot.com,
that is talking about the Blue Jays. Which is actually more interesting then hearing about how lame we all know Selena Roberts is.
I have a feeling this is going to continue tomorrow as that is the release date of her book. Hopefully we can all move on Tuesday and realize what we already knew months ago. Alex is a cheater and has a ego. And he doesnt know how to brush his own teeth. Whatever.
“And he doesnt know how to brush his own teeth.”
was that in the book, too?
Young shirtless shortstops 1997 from SI. Jeter and A-Rod don’t look that much different in size.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_2Fzo.....tstops.jpg
Dana Eveland is not having a good week
“How are we supposed to judge her credibility without looking at her other work, Montclair?”
You really can’t.
A lawyer cross-examining Selena would certainly be within his or her rights to explore the profit motive in excruciating detail, e.g., the amount of money she expected to see from this project for 6 months of work.
That lawyer would also properly explore her prior writings and statements to the degree that such prior statements and writings demonstrate a negative bias toward males she believes to be “privileged,” e.g., the Duke Lacrosse Players.
“Young shirtless shortstops 1997 from SI. Jeter A-Rod don’t look that much different in size”
Umm I’m not even going comment much on that photo lol. But who are the other 3 dudes? One looks like Jamal Crawford the other Mario Lopez.
Trevor one is Nomar.
“And he doesnt know how to brush his own teeth.”
was that in the book, too?
——-
Apparently so. I read it on MSNBC that A-Rod made someone else put toothpaste on his toothbrush. Not sure if im more disturbed by the news or the fact she took the time to put it in her book.
Christina
May 3rd, 2009 at 9:25 pm
“And he doesnt know how to brush his own teeth.”
was that in the book, too?
———-
Apparently so. I read it on MSNBC that A-Rod made someone else put toothpaste on his toothbrush. Not sure if im more disturbed by the news or the fact she took the time to put it in her book.
____________
I wonder if she also cateloged the vegetables he doesn’t like and is favorite color?
“Trevor one is Nomar”
Really? I didn’t even recognize him. He’s changed…
“Can we stop bringing up the Duke LaCrosse case?”
i don’t think so. i just read a long article from the american journalism review that went into the media coverage as detailed as i’ve seen. selena roberts was mentioned prominently as a member of the media who rushed to judgement and then when a more complicated truth emerged that proved her wrong, she did nothing to make up for her mistakes.
her credibility is tarnished to a great deal by her writing on the duke case. she never apologized. she never covered the truth being revealed. once her version was proved wrong she moved on.
she was not about the truth in the duke rape case. she dropped it when it didn’t fit her agenda.
here’s the link again that if anyone wants to read why selena roberts is not a reputable journalist :http://www.ajr.org/Article.asp?id=4379
“Young shirtless shortstops 1997 from SI. Jeter A-Rod don’t look that much different in size”
I didn’t know Jeter was in Menudo.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menudo_(band)
here’s the link again that if anyone wants to read why selena roberts is not a reputable journalist :
http://www.ajr.org/Article.asp?id=4379
Trevor
Edgar Renteria, Rey Ordonez and Alex Gonzalez.
If Oakland is out of it, try and get Russ Springer or someone to be our SU man
Can we stop bringing up the Duke LaCrosse case?
It has nothing to do with this.
————–
If these allegations were made in a US courtroom, Roberts would have her credibility ripped to shreds by any semi-competent lawyer.
Mentioning Duke Lacrosse and her role in that whole debacle is perfectly legit as well as her hit pieces of the past on Jordan and Bryant.
It’s up to Roberts to prove these allegations about A-Rod if she’s going to write this book for profit.
It’s not up to A-Rod and people close to him to disprove them.
Yeah I agree Jennifer..Natasha will be five this year and I doubt Cynthia would want to be the source of taking Alex out mentally.I was just trying to sprinkle some fun into a sad situation. Poor kids! Imagine Natasha 3-4 years from now “googling” her dads name and all this crap about strippers and hookers and cheating on her mom while she was preggers with her and her sister pop-up on the screen! Regardless of his public career his personal life is just that personal. What kills is I know all these so called respected journalist and Alex haters ..have done,are doing or will do equally bad or WORST things than Alex has done. I hate that everyone thinks he owes them something. He is only obligated to the yankees(the pay him) his kids(cause he helped create them) and of course himself.
I love Alex, but seriously how much more can he take? Every aspect of his life is in question now days. It’s just not right when you have to answer about personal things too yah, know? It’s no one’s business who he sleeps with etc. He cheated on his wife and that is Cynthia’s problem with him not anyone else.
I can’t help but to feel bad for the guy..and yes im fan of his and NO i dont believe his story about why he started using PEDs and why he stopped using PEDs but now im more worried about the person Alex Rodriguez than I am the player! Baseball is a GAME his life is not. What if he does not survive this? Maybe he needs help an intervention or something not a bunch of nerds making fun of his mistakes.Ugh im done lol
So I just noticed we get Lester and Beckett this week…madness
Lester and Beckett have been awful the past 2 weeks.
It’s easy to publish negative things about other (esp when all you really need to back it up is “my friend, my source, that guy told me so”) when you don’t have to worry about it coming back on you —– Kinda like when pitchers in the AL throw at hitters without having to worry about being thrown at
let’s hope Yankee pitching can be just a little bit less terrible
Our team is getting paid a lot of money… and a .500 record after the first month is unacceptable.
Time for these players to start to focus and play up to their paychecks. We wont accept this type of play
“let’s hope Yankee pitching can be just a little bit less terrible”
Unfortunately, that’s a tall order.
last i checked we were 2 games above .500 playing the entire month without our superstar, and our #2. All of this and all of 1 game in the loss column behind Toronto and boston
media like roberts depend on people not looking deeply into at what they write.
there is an intelligence how selena roberts appeals to people’s emotions. she basically doesn’t stick to the facts. it was easy in the duke rape case to push white against black, women against men, rich against poor, athletes against non athletes, etc.
she uses people’s preconceived biases to lead them to her conclusions.
Lori on WFAN just said Pete will be on the air after 11.
“Time for these players to start to focus and play up to their paychecks. We wont accept this type of play”
Unfortunately they still get a paycheck good or bad play. Unfortunately we the fans don’t write their checks. And Unfortunately I don’t see them getting better without Cashman making some changes! So what can we do?Boycott?
Ironic that one of the quotes in that ajr article randy 1 attached above comes from Daniel Okrent, considering his ties to both the NY Times as its first Public Editor and as a founder of Rotisserie Baseball.
Hey Pete: can you get Dan Okrent to opine on the Selena Roberts – A-Rod thing?
new post
Coach6423 have you actually watched the games? We are lucky we are where we are in the standings with some of the pitching woes the bull pen and some starters have showed. Hey does anyone think Molina should be A.J.’s personal catcher? He doesn’t seem comfortable with Posada to me. Have anyone else notice that?
“However well-intentioned Girardi may have been today, his comments will only serve to continue the story.”
pETE, you cant be serious. You really think it is Girardi of all people whos comments will serve to prolong this story. Not the upcoming book or the massive amount of media attention the book or alex himself has gotten the last few months without hardly anything from the organization in terms of support but these comments. I think Girardi deserves some props for speaking up against a torrent of media hounds who all seem to share the same warped opinion that alex deserves all of this, that he is one of the few athletes who took steroids and does some stupid things and that there is no problem that the weight of decades of steroids abuse in baseball is being places solely in his hands.
Frankly, I comment Girardi for being one of the few in the organization to actually support one of their own. God knows the fans see right through this mess to realize that this book is solely to enhance a career and grab some money while continuing to destroy the reputation of someone who’s reputation is already in tatters. I mean, outside of arod writing a book about his own private life, books like these have no place in baseball. First of all, if every source is anonymous how is anyone supposed to know what is true and what is libel outside of the fact that nothing was disproved in the selena article and “that sounds like something arod would do” and second, outside of targeting arod once again, I dont even see a purpose to this book unless it actually brings up some real revelations.
I think the fans can see a lot of this and realize that selena and the rest of her cohort are just out for blood with no greater purpose while continuing to hurt baseball by not allowing the steroids era to become the past. Further, it is becoming evident to the fans that this is just to torture arod as no one in the media seems remotely interested in uncovering any of the other 106 names on that anonymous list to actually make up for the media’s blatant ignorance during that era. Instead, they are putting all that pent up wrath into arod destruction which is just making things even worse for baseball and for fans. Frankly, the fans can see most all of this and i think soon many others will follow as girardi already has shown in his comments today.
I think in the end, people are smart enough to force this book to backfire on selena and the reporters that constantly and blindly praise her for no apparent reason and arod will become the victims who was crucified by the media while selena will be seen as the blood hungry reporter with a personal vendetta that only cares about baseball or its fans when they are buying her book and increasing her profits.
Nope, havent watched any of the games at all, no absolutely nothing about the game of baseball, just like to come on here and complain.
murhydog-
one of the problems i see is that people just don’t take the time to read background material when making an informed decision. truth is often complex. it doesn’t come in 30 second sound bites.
i really think that writers like selena roberts appeal more to emotion than to logic. it’s easy to have an emotion. studying something takes work. writers like roberts count on people being lazy and not really looking into things.
thats sarcasm btw.
I don’t think it’s been mentioned much but you gotta love how the media is now shifting to a new argument and telling Girardi to turn the page on the A-Rod book saga when Girardi can’t do any sort of interview without being asked about it.
Pete did this today and made the comment that Girardi just made it a bigger story for speaking out against it.
Now Wally Matthews (who often makes the dumbest arguments in the media) is echoing that same “advice” for Girardi.
————-
http://www.newsday.com/sports/.....?track=rss
Aw, c’mon, Joe, just turn the page
And not just any book, but THEbook, about THEplayer, who just happens to be his third baseman in absentia, Alex Rodriguez.
For this, Rodriguez owes him. Selena Roberts owes him. Harper Collins owes him.
And heaven knows, I owe him. Big time.
Believe me, nothing gets a columnist through a lengthy rain delay quite like a managerial tantrum, especially a tantrum over something as trivial as a gossipy celebrity bio.
—————
Funny how that works, eh?
Girardi gets asked about this crap everyday during every interview and when he finally lashes out to protect his guy and rips the author – the media changes their tune and tells Girardi just to drop it.
Amazing.
abcd -
them’s a lot of words … are you DAVE??
Just kidding Dave. That sure was a lot of words … I’m sure you understand.
“Funny how that works, eh?
Girardi gets asked about this crap everyday during every interview and when he finally lashes out to protect his guy and rips the author – the media changes their tune and tells Girardi just to drop it.
Amazing.”
Yes cause lord knows the next headlines are that the Yankees don’t care about Alex so this garbage they spew must be true! lol You know its coming..now if Jeter and company don’t speak out it will be “THE TEAM HATES ALEX”. I hope Alex decline talking to all reporters this season even if its good or bad he should play,shower and leave em hanging. A Silent middle-finger..you know I pray he comes back and just destroys opposing pitchers and plays amazing in the playoffs and we win the WS because Alex hit the game-winner man that would be something to shut all these cowards up.(yes im a big dreamer lol) I guess his only response should be how well he plays when he gets back..if he gets back..
I put to the reporters why exactly does arod deserve all of this and why is all of this his fault? This is what I hear:
1. Arod is the best player in the game and he should expect this when entering the public spotlight. But did arod really work this hard to become the center of this mess? I highly doubt that was his plan. He didnt come into baseball because he wanted to be the center of attention but rather because he loves the game and he can make a lot of money doing something he loves.
2. Arod did steroids. Ummm, so did more than half of the other players in the game and just because his name was the one illegally leaked doesnt mean he did anyhing worse than any of the rest of those guys.
3. He does stupid things. Oh yes, and no one else in sports does stupid things. I rarely see this kind of overwhelmingly negative attention go on for months upon months for anyone else who does something stupid. I have heard of sports players doing things far worse than cheating on their wife, hitting on strippers and getting cozy with madonna yet, athletes who beat their wife, get DWIs and commit first-degree murder do not get even close to the amount of criticism arod is getting.
4. He tries to be the center of attention. Im sure being the most highly touted prospect out of high school and the media following his every move has nothing to do with that – I mean he is just used to it. It is really the media who puts him at the center of attention more than him trying to get there. He doesnt have to really try to be the center of attention anyway.
So with all of those things not accounting for 6 months or more of arod bashing and an article followed by a book about his social life and steroids, I still want to know why exactly does he deserve this? He has done nothing illegal as far as I know and is dumb but to me, he seems like a decent guy he has never really wronged anybody. SO i JUST dont get it.
Alex is NOT dumb he just says stupid stuff there is a difference.
ansky,
I got you but I had to get it all out as i havent been on here today to discuss the little girardi remark or the ridiculous new media reply that girardi shouldnt be defending alex because he is continuing the story. Yea continuing the story like pete and 1000 other journalists do each day and like selena’s book is doing. I love how the entire media has the same response to everything that happens in this story? Blindly following selena’s every word, telling girardi to just drop it and on and on. Forget about selena’s harsh words against the duke lacrosse team all but sentencing them to 25 years before the trial commenced or commending the manager for his support when constantly asked about it.
erica – thats what i meant to write. sorry. To me, consistently saying stupid things and actually being stupid is a fine line though. Saying one or two stupid things and i buy it. But after bush’s 100th blunder, I began to think he was actually a dumb person. Arod isnt that bad but i think it is best for him to just keep his mouth shut and let others like girardi and ex-teammates and coaches do the talking
“I still want to know why exactly does he deserve this?”
Relative to other players, he doesn’t deserve this.
Gutter snipes and hater types like to tear down the best.
It’s called “tall poppy” syndrome. The same thing happened to Martha Stewart. Envy.
But, if he finally does fall, those same people will be cheering his comeback.
Pete Abe coming up on WFAN.