Wrapping it up from the soggy Bronx
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on May 05, 2009 
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The Yankees are 0-5 against Boston getting outscored 38-23 against their rivals. They are 8 of 54 (.148) with runners in scoring position over those five games.
Joe Girardi talked after the game about his team needing to come out tomorrow with a chip on their shoulder. That’s all well and good. But Boston is headed home to play Cleveland. The Rays are here tomorrow.
The Yankees have 25 players on their roster and you can make a case that 11 of them (Berroa, Pena, Cervelli, Gardner, Robertson, Ramirez, Melancon, Veras, Albaladejo, Hughes and Aceves) may or may not belong in the big leagues at this point. That’s 44 percent of your team.
The Yankees have too many injuries to expect them to be better than 13-13. It’s somewhat of a miracle they’re .500, actually. This isn’t about being tougher, it’s about being better.
As Tyler Kepner and I were walking back to the press box, he made an interesting point. It’s not so much that the Yankees lose games, it’s how they lose games. They’ve lost five to Boston. They’ve had losses when they’ve allowed 10 (twice), 15, 22 and 16 runs. Their losses are hideous.
I don’t think it would be fair to pin it on Joe Girardi. But the manager is lucky that reasonable Hal Steinbrenner is running the team and not his impetuous father.
Thanks for reading today. Back at it tomorrow.
Goodnight, Pete.
nothing about bruney, pete?
I’m not so sure it is Girardi who would feel the wrath of George. None of the problems you listed are the fault of the manager. 40% of the roster being minor league grade, and once again an injury prone lineup… that points at the GM.
Hi Cash! How’s the ulcer?
I don’t know… I for one really miss Joe Torre. Actually I’m not sure that I miss Joe Torre as much as I miss 1998.
In any given game you don’t know if they are going to pitch well or hit well. It hasn’t been often that they do both in 1 game. That has been the Yanks so far this season. But I would be much more concerned about the bullpen then the hitting.
This team will be okay. A .500 record right now is all we can expect. Get A-Rod and Bruney back in the short-term, Wang, Marte, Nady and Posada back and get Tex right and then the team looks a bit more like it will in the playoffs. C.C. isn’t going to pitch like this forever, neither will AJ and hopefully not Melancon, either. The pieces are there.
What has happened to this team?
(I know what has happened, I’m just sayin’)
Let’s pin it on Girardi. I’m saying that since he got here – HE’S CLUELESS! Get him out of here! FAST!
7even,
you’ve given me hope that there are reasonable Yankee fans out there.
7even,
My concern is that by the time all of those pieces fall together, it might be too late. We are looking at a division that now has 3 strong teams (yes, debate Toronto all you want) and the best effort from this team might not be enough for even a wildcard.
Fair point, but I don’t think Girardi should be spared at least a portion of the blame. While it’s true that the roster has been mangled to say the least due to injuries, Girardi has made some questionable managerial decisions that have cost the Yankees.
Yes, it’s unfortunate that the best “bat” to pinch hit Jose Molina was Brett Gardner in tonight’s game, but Girardi also played with fire by putting in Veras and letting Melancon walk the bases loaded before pulling him.
Pete, we’re dying to know why you dislike Girardi so much…
Dave – how about last year? Not Girardi’s fault? He’s got the best lineup in the baseball and this team is .500??? What else we need? COME ON!
It will be interesting to see how patient Hank and Hal are with Joe Girardi…
Boogie Down:
Are you a dimwit? I said it would NOT be fair to pin it on Girardi. Pay attention.
As for the Bruney news, I broke that on Sunday when he told me he had been shut down.
http://yankees.lhblogs.com/200.....homestand/
The pitching situation is simply disastrous. I can’t criticize Cashman too much about the rotation because on paper, even without Wang, this is a top 5 rotation in the league. You can’t blame Cashman for CC’s and AJ’s inconsistent starts, but you can blame Cashman for completely neglecting the bullpen. After Bruney and Mo I have absolutely no faith in anyone else to get the job done.
People who are worried about the pen ahven’t heard about Mike Dunn….
Does Hal know that the baseball season has started?
Some of the comments in here are atrocious and I hope from redsox fans and not yankees fans. The sox arent even in our class? redsox-rays rivalry? Pleeease. Based on what> Five games none of which were ever blowouts at all and almost all of which were decided by only one or two big plays. Very little broke right for us and this team is in a very mediocre place right now.
Our pen will certainly not be this pathetic all season. Our rotation is definitely going to improve. Arod will be hitting next to tex and tex will be hitting around 300 and not around 200. These are things that are bound to change just based on past performance – losing bruney and marte sent out pen into this tailspin and getting them back will certainly help the pen get better.
I can pin it on Girardi.
Melancon and Robertson belong, Alby and Veras don’t.
I do think this pen can be as good as last year and while I think cashman blew it by not bolstering the pen or the bench, they werent all that bad to start the year. I dont think veras, edwar and albadejo will all end the year with eras closer to 10 than 5. Things will improve even with the news about posada and bruney’s apparent setback. These still seem very minor and arod coming back, jobas dominance tonight,
CC looking sharp the other day, hughes looking unhittable against detroit and tex;s two homers yesterday are all good signs of positive change forward. I think pettitte and joba have so far proved that they are everything we hoped they would be this season so far and AJ has shown signs of dominance and remained healthy. Swish, cano and matsui have also all exceded expectations so far and carried the offense this year. Damon is also hitting better and better and melky is looking very good most days.
I also seriously doubt wang will end the season with an era over 30 . So things are basically bound to improve mainly because most of these stats cant get any worse and many players have showed a lot of subtle signs of major improvement especially in the rotation. Our rotation was the strongest part of this team coming into the season and it will likely be the strongest coming out which is definitely a good thing for the playoffs and takes a lot of heat off the pen.
I also think that Mo, coke, aceves, robertson and melancon will all prove reliable pen arms that girardi can trust within the week and the pen will start rolling with those five in major roles and bolstered by the return of Bruney and Marte. I also think that pena will be an excellent player to have off the bench when arod comes back and with posada back our bench rounds into shape with gardner, pena, molina and swisher with nady back in the OF. That bench has everything a good bench needs.
Hank isn’t running the organization anymore. He had his time last year and screwed up.
Hal is the one running the show. And he doesn’t overreact like his father did. Everything I’ve read says Hal likes Cashman and Girardi. If Girardi is going to go it’s likely Cashman is going to can him not so much Hal. Hal loves Cashman.
Besides I’m not sure do I trust Hal to hire the right GM if he were to can Cashman. Does he know the industry well?
There is a silver lining to what went on tonight.
Joba is really starting to get on a roll. The Red Sox had no chance after the 1st inning.
The one hit Joba allowed was a little come backer to the mound that he deflected and died 15 feet in front of Jeter.
Sabathia has pitched well his last couple of starts and he’s also starting to get on a roll.
Let’s hope Burnett does the same starting tomorrow.
I’ve never been a bridge jumper and I think all the gloom and doom and panic in the streets is misguided and over-reactionary.
Sure, there are issues with this team – but they will be fine if the rotation does what they are supposed to do.
I am however very disturbed by Girardi’s bullpen management this season. He was praised for that trait last season for good reason and I’m not understanding why he has now resorted to the Torre way of thinking.
At least Robertson might have bought himself another opportunity tonight – but I’m afraid Melancon is going to be relegated to mop up duty for now.
Girardi is better than that and I don’t quite understand it.
And A-Rod can’t come back soon enough.
Injuries hurt…for sure, but im telling you- until they get rid of Girardi they will not make the playoffs..
Torre would have this team 2 or 3 wins better– Something about Girardi screams….”Boston has my number”
The team will/can be just fine– it wont be until the current manager is gone.
I, for one, wish big George was able to make one last firing…
Yeah… because Nelancon looked like he belonged tonight.
If Joe had done that in the 8th inning down 4-3, you guys would have mortified Girardi for putting a rookie in that spot and held him responsible for killing his confidence.
How can Joe manage a pen when none of the 8 guys can get outs?
The team doesn’t know how to win. It’s still learning which is a problem since these losses count.
It thinks it should win. It thinks it should win because it’s the Yankees and they all get paid millions to be here and Derek and Mo are on the team but that’s not winning.
Their past accomplishments and present salary and celebrity mean nothing to other teams anywhere.
No one is cowed by the Yankees coming into their house. Instead, they enjoy beating up on them and playing better baseball than the Yankees who don’t show up every night.
The Red Sox are dealing with just as much injury and poor performance, but their players are stepping in and stepping up and winning these games.
This up and down losing will get to the team, the fans and may cost Girardi his job.
Until they learn how to come together and win and do the things it takes to win, it’s a lost cause. The pen sucks. The starters are not pitching well. The lineup is decimated by injuries and poor performance. It’s a .500 team.
The team has fight. It just doesn’t have a knockout punch.
It seem like the Yankees would rather have it go to judges cards than destroy their opponent.
Where does that swagger come from? It comes from within the player and from within the clubhouse.
And sadly, I don’t think Arod is bringing that with him from Tampa. I think he’s bringing a circus that will help to further distract the team from the goal of winning.
Cashman changed a lot of the players. He must be mind boggled how this is turning out.
You either keep changing the players or you change the manager.
At this rate, Girardi won’t make the all star break.
Girardi has not been perfect, but how would anyone manage this team so far? Your #2 starter, Mr. Reliable Wang has an ERA above 30. Your new star bat is hitting below the Mendoza line. Your clean-up hitter and one of the top 3 right-handed bats in the game hasn’t made an appearance yet. Your new ace is 1-3. Your only reliable set up man outside of Mo is hurt. You lost a starting outfielder and now the bench sucks. The situation is impossible.
Where is the hope? We get our best hitter back, Tex and CC will regress to the mean, which just happens to be a pretty damn good mean. AJ is AJ, he should be good for around an ERA around 4. A healthy Bruney and Marte and an adjusted Melancon and Coke will be the bridge to Mo. There are what 130-some games left? It is laughable to right us off. How many years did the A’s make those late season surges? And… It isn’t even late! We are fine. If the team had everyone and was .500 I would worry. This is a shell of what the team will be in, oh say a month.
Hal isn’t going to fire Cashman and Girardi.
He just signed Cashman to a three-year extension and Girardi has a full year to do whatever he’s going to do.
Once the rotation gets rolling, everything else will start to fall into place.
“Besides I’m not sure do I trust Hal to hire the right GM if he were to can Cashman. Does he know the industry well?”
Hal would probably defer to Stick/Livesy to find the next GM. I doubt they bring in some young assistant from some well run organization like the Angels, Twins or something. They would look for a veteran guy.
“Once the rotation gets rolling, everything else will start to fall into place.”
——-
jackpot
Can we all just give the young guys and the young manager a chance to mature over not just a few games, not just a few months, but (gasp) a few years? What do you say? Instead of calling for people to get fired or be shuttled back to AAA.
How long did it take Greinke to get where he is now? Think Joba won’t get there? Hughes? I think they will.
Girardi will be a great manager. Cashman is a great GM. Is he better than Theo? Who knows. Do you think he doesn’t try to make deals that make his team better? That Nady/Marte trade looked like a great deal at the time, and he brought the Yanks Teix, CC, and AJ.
You know Sabathia will get hot.
AJ is serious about his work and you have to believe he will battle.
Teixeira is a notoriously slow starter.
My expectations? I am excited to see what happens within a 3-year span. I don’t expect them to make the playoffs this year. But I do think we are looking at a speedy, powerful championship calibre team in three years when Cano, Joba, and Hughes (and others) have grown into their own nucleus and role players and vets like CC,Teixeira and even Rodriguez are still contributing as well.
I do think that Jeter, Posada and Rivera have played in their last playoff games. But I think this is more than OK. Their teams gave us more than any baseball fan could ever want on this earth.
It’s time to turn the page, but you need time and space for people to mature and make mistakes and get better in order for that to happen. Otherwise, we’re a free-agent reliant, old, win-now team and that just never seems to work. We have been buying players near-past-their-prime in an effort to plug holes and it’s time to stop. Cash has done all he can within the environment he is asked to work. I think we owe it to the team to see what the next 5 years brings before we panic and clean house.
I really don’t think anyone’s getting fired because they’re 13-13 and have once again been decimated by injuries. Well maybe the strength/conditioning coach again but that doesn’t count.
I would fire Levine/Trost though. I don’t even know what they do but they seem like snakes.
Torre would be worse.
So alec, you think this team is made up of a bunch of whiny morons who decided because Girardi is their manager they don’t want to beat Boston?
If this team is, as you say, so terrible that they won’t play well under Girardi, then I wish they’d fire the entire 25 man roster. Sorry, I have no interest in players who, as you seem to be claiming, don’t play as hard because Girardi is the manager.
As for the bullpen management, what is Girardi doing differently than he did last year? The only difference is the guys aren’t getting the outs. The “Torre style of bullpen management” (and by the way, I like Torre as a manager, but I do think he was terrible with the bullpen) would be to pick one guy and ride him constantly and never trust the younger guys. I don’t see Girardi doing either of those things. He’s not perfect and he’s made mistakes, including with the bullpen, but it’s not his fault only Mariano (most of the time) and Coke (since the first couple games) have been able to get outs, and he’s hardly managing the bullpen like Torre did.
Nothing on Joba throwing at Bay in the 5th and showboating like an absolute fool after getting the final out in the 5th? Sorry great talent but it’d be nice to see him stop acting like a punk. I know I know he has a terrible upbringing but still.
Also celebrating as a starter after finishing 5 innings is beyond silly. Espicially when you’re down 4-3.
Clint
Yeah… because Nelancon looked like he belonged tonight.
__
Yeah…because one outing is determinative.
i HOPE some of those comment help give comfort to the gloom and doomers who think its August instead of May. Relax guys. We are not even doing that poorly, it just seems that way because of all the losses being to the sox. But if someone asked a yankee fan in January if the yanks lost both arod and wang completely by the second week of the season, would they take a 500 record a month later when arod was close to returning, I think most of us would have taken it or at least a good amount of us. That is our mvp hitter and our ace the last few season and we probably dont make the playoffs and finish last in the division without both of them in 2007. So while 500 seems bad just because of the brutal nature of the losses, who they lossed to and CC joining the team as a new ace, 500 really isnt that bad right now considering how horrible the team is actually playing so far. Just look at the pen’s era, tex’s batting avg, CC’s and wang’s era and the laundry list of yankee players hitting the dl so far for proof that we are lucky to be at 500 and all of those things will improve as the season wears on, I have no doubt.
What stud reliever is going to be available this summer?
At best, you can get Russ Springer or Mike Wuertz from Oakland. Not like you’re going to get Andrew Baily or Ziegler. Or from Colorado you can get Jason Grilli or Alan Embree. Maybe if you’re lucky, you get an erratic closer like Valverde from Houston.
You’re going to get some retread and just hope we can catch lightening in a bottle.
Bronx Jeers: I could tell you what I’ve heard about Levine…
Guys, it is kind of a miracle we are 13-13 right now. Girardi is overmanaging the bullpen.
But this team is, on the whole, showing a fight that they did not show last year.
It’s only a matter of time before the fight becomes a knock out punch.
And if you really want Girardi gone, who the heck do you replace him with?
Once the rotation gets rolling, everything else will start to fall into place.”
———-
jackpot
disagree. This is akin to a guy like Omar Minaya thinking once I fix the bullpen everything will be alright with the team. This team has far more issues than just the rotation not hitting it’s stride.
tommy, are you a fool? Joba brought whatever life this team and crowd had today. Stop acting like a grandpa
Yanks will be fine…What is disturbing is twice they were on a roll and twice Boston has put an end to both streaks,,,,Bullpen is the singularly the most pressing issue to resolve….Bruney’s return can’t happen soon enough….Now it’s two weeks at least…..He went down the day of the Boston trip….
How much you bet Teixeria wishes he went to Boston?
And CC probably wishes he took less to go out to LA or SF.
I think it’s actually impressive that the team is at .500 considering not only that they’re missing some major players (like their third baseman, their right fielder, the catcher is now missing, and their first baseman has started out very slow and suffered an injury as well…oh yeah, and the setup man as well). And they have two guys who may have been injured all season that we as Yankee fans WISH had been on the DL all season, because their being on the team killed us (Marte who couldn’t seem to get an out and Wang who essentially singlehandedly cost the Yankees three games). Take any team in baseball, ANY of them, and take away their starting third baseman, starting right fielder, and their setup man, and in addition to that, their first baseman suffers an injury, misses some games, and is ineffective, and oh yeah, their starting catcher gets hurt, misses a couple games, then ends up on the DL, and while we’re at it, their OTHER setup man AND their #2 starter not only end up on the DL but due to injuries are so incredibly bad that a kid off the street could probably have thrown better, and you know what, not a one of them would be expected to even be close to .500.
We just were not ready to play Boston, mentally or physically.
Now that we face some other teams for a while, we should be able to get on a roll
Why didn’t Girardi have Pena squeeze with a man on 3B?
Why has he not use Robertson when he pitched so well tonight (and in the minors)?
disagree. This is akin to a guy like Omar Minaya thinking once I fix the bullpen everything will be alright with the team. This team has far more issues than just the rotation not hitting it’s stride.
————
Not really.
If the rotation does their job (quality starts and giving them length) then the offense doesn’t have to score as many runs and the middle relievers aren’t used nearly as often.
It’s a domino affect. That’s why most teams win with good starting pitching.
Compared to these clowns in the bullpen Farnsworth is a hall of famer. At least once in a while he would not give up a run. That’s sad.
Didn’t watch the game. Can you guys tell me why Girardi used so many pitchers in a game that we were losing?
And were the bottom of the 6th & 7th innings as brutal as they sounded?
GLENDALE
How much you bet Teixeria wishes he went to Boston?
And CC probably wishes he took less to go out to LA or SF.
__
Not at all.
Not at all.
This has been another edition of simple answers to simple questions.
Good lord some of you people overreact.
Yeah, I’m sure both Teixeira and Sabathia wish they had run to another team because after 26 games the team is ONLY .500 despite both guys struggling.
Sorry, not everyone ridiculously overreacts at the beginning of May to BEING AT .500. You’re acting like the Yankees have the same record as the Nationals. Relax already.
m
Didn’t watch the game. Can you guys tell me why Girardi used so many pitchers in a game that we were losing?
__
It’s inexplicable. Coke was very effective and had only thrown 11 pitches, yet he was removed.
I wouldn’t mind Bobby V but he’s too head strong and would butt heads with Cash along with telling stoodges such as Levine and Trost where to go(actually that would rule) He would also demand to have the best defensive team out there which means moving Captain No Range off of SS. How would Jeter react? Well my guess is he’d sulk and support Bobby about as well as he’s supported A-Rod.
Nobody in the league can beat Boston except Tampa, we shouldn’t feel bad.
We’re just not in their class at the moment. We were not ready for an early season series with this team. Too many moving parts, we were not at our best.
“Can you guys tell me why Girardi used so many pitchers in a game that we were losing?”
Because it was a close game. It’s not like we were losing 10-1. The game was 4-3 til the 8th, a very winnable game. Even at 6-3 it was still pretty close.
Not sure what the catching rotation is for the next few days, but, Burnett is a better match for Cervelli that Pettitte is. Burnett is more will ing call his own game than Pettitte is. Pettitte prefers to throw whatever the catcher calls. Burnett’s not worried about changing the pitches.
Kevlar
Nobody in the league can beat Boston except Tampa, we shouldn’t feel bad.
__
Boston is very beatable, just not by the Yankees right now with Giradi as the manager.
At least tonight will shut up the Joba to the pen people (myself included).
m: my best guess is
a) he didn’t want anyone pitching too long in the rain, and
b) he’s still trying to figure out who he can trust. Which right now looks like Coke and maybe Robertson when he throws strikes.
Burnett is more ***willing to*** call his own game than Pettitte is
Richie, so you subscribe to the idea that this team is made up of a bunch of idiots who won’t play hard for Girardi? How do you support this team if you believe that? You think it’s totally okay for our players to refuse to play hard for Girardi?
Or maybe some people are being really foolish by somehow blaming the manager.
Richie,
Thanks. I praised Joe G. all season last year for his bullpen management. Guys came in, did their thing for an inning or two and passed the ball to the next guy.
This year? Different story. Like he’s just discovered how to mix & match. Who does the scouting for the team? Is a different bench coach making a difference? Rob Thompson was very calculating in his preparation. He’s been great this year @ 3B, but he helped Torre & I’m assuming Girardi put all the data together.
Melancon can be trusted. He was just overanxious tonight, maybe because Girardi stupidly used him with the bases loaded the last time he pitched.
tommy,
Exactly. Valentine is too hard core for this franchise. He isin’t a Yes-Man like Girardi is or that Tony Pena would be. He would want things done his way.
No good manager is working here under any of these conditions, especially with an idiot like Levine meddling in the background. Valentine ain’t leaving a good gig in Japan to be thrown into this mess unless he has things his way– which he won’t get.
m
I agree. Girardi’s regression in terms of bullpen management is puzzling, to say the least.
Wait… so Girardi was wrong for bringing him into a bases loaded situation on Friday, but he should have been brought into a 4-3 game against the Red Sox today, where he has no margin for error?
The guy has sucked so far. Stop making excuses for him. Girardi brought him in a 6-3 game and he couldn’t throw strikes.
No one is getting fired.
Though I do have to agree with most of you that Girardi really has been a strange little duckie with his bullpen moves this season. With all that is going on with this team, this has been bothering me the most. Just have to see how this goes.
Maybe a nice strong outing by AJ tomorrow will be what gets us back on the right track. Hopefully the Yankees also remember how to get those RISP home also.
“How much you bet Teixeria wishes he went to Boston?”
If he doesn’t start hitting, many here will share that wish as well.
Bringing Bobby Valentine in to manage is a disaster waiting to happen. Why do you think that he’s been fired from so many places? Ownership, front office and players can’t stand him.
I thought Melancon’s best asset was his mental makeup?
Now he is emotionally scared from facing the bases loaded in the 6th inning?
Oh brother lol. The excuses are tiresome.
It’s funny too because you know at the end of the season, when the Yankees are making the playoffs because, newsflash guys, the season doesn’t end in May, all the people now who are ranting about how being .500 after 13 games means the Yankees are a terrible mess of a team with a horrible manager will be talking about how amazing the team is and how they knew it all along.
Were you people even around for the 11-19 start where they went on to win the division? Or did you just start watching baseball recently?
I would’ve liked to see Joe go with Coke for one more inning…
And why did he wait till the count was 2-0 to lift Melancon? Particularly since Melancon had just walked the bases loaded…how much evidence did he need that Melancon was not going to find the plate?
I’m not sure I’ve ever seen a pitcher come in with the bases loaded and a 2-0 count…it must’ve happened before, but I can’t remember seeing it…
Robertson didn’t handle it all that bad considering…
It’s not about Girardi; it’s about this team not being good enough. Once Beckett wiggled out of trouble with runners on second and third it was over, because the Yankees are not going to win a battle of bullpens with Boston (or most other teams, for that matter). Paint the happy face if you wish, but this team’s problems run deep. If the starters don’t go 7 and leave with a lead, it doesn’t look good.
Another point: They scored 6 runs in this series and all came via the HR. The clutch hitting and manufacturing of runs just aren’t there.
Tommy – without that first inning, he was pitching a gem and could have gone through the seventh at least. He had a career high in strikeouts and was just dominating the sox lineup and making them look silly from the second inning until he left strike out 2 or 3 batters pretty much every inning. Of course, he is going to celebrate after a performance like that. Who wouldnt? He was not show boating at all. He was just getting heated up in the moment. He is young on energetic and thats what that was. Plenty other young pitchers do the same sort of thing. Im tired of joba being singled out for it because he is a yankee. I love it especially on the yanks – its nice to see some fire in a game that isnt critical. You sound like francessa with your comments and that is not a compliment.
Girardi is doing nothing different than last year. Its his pen that is different because it is bad right now. But he isnt clinging to one arm. He actually did the opposite of what torre used to do. Instead of going to one arm when nothing is working, he tried to go to every arm on the staff for an out.
G love,
I dont know where swagger comes from but I know this team does not have to learn to win. It may be figuring out how to get all the pieces in motion together but I dont think that is some sort of active learning process as much as when the time is right, the team just clicks. I know it will happen so thats why I am not too worried yet just aggravated. As for arod coming back and being a distraction. Frankly, arod is not the distraction at this point as much as the book and the media asking questions about the book are distractions because they ask questions about arod and selena to everyone on the club. But if players do as they should and say they are there to talk about baseball and the team and not alex’s social life or selena’s writing style they should be fine and that goes for alex too who should just not field a single question about it because the media will just burn him for whatever he says anyway as they do with everything. If he plays like arod and avoids talking about anything except the game, he will bring a lot more positives to the team than add negatives.
Girardi’s BP management sucks because his bullpen sucks.
Now there is a unique concept. Now you want Girardi to turn water into wine?
Richie
May 6th, 2009 at 12:34 am
Melancon can be trusted. He was just overanxious tonight, maybe because Girardi stupidly used him with the bases loaded the last time he pitched.
————————————————————
It was Melancon that loaded the bases tonight. The nervous excuse is a BS copout.
You didn’t know? Everyone on the team would be hitting 1.000 on the season and pitching to a 0.00 ERA with any other manager in history, but Girardi is so bad and so hated by everyone in the clubhouse that the entire team refuses to play for him.
Not really.
If the rotation does their job (quality starts and giving them length) then the offense doesn’t have to score as many runs and the middle relievers aren’t used nearly as often.
It’s a domino affect. That’s why most teams win with good starting pitching.
meh. Not everyone is gonna go 7 innings. C.C when on is the only guy guaranteed to go deep. Burnett is a flip of the coin at times and he is for sure gonna spend some time on the dl. Pettite is an above average innings eater at this time. Who knows what Hughes is. Even when Joba’s dominant as he was from the second inning on he still is a 5 inning pitcher that throws a billion pitches. The fact that the fact that the new ballpark is pretty much coors field East doesn’t help anyone’s pitcher either. The D while helped by Tex is still pretty bad. The offense is jeckyll and hydish with a few dead spots in it.
Exactly 7*7 — Other Coke, he has no one to turn to before the ninth. So, unless you want the starters to throw 130 – 140 pitches per game, don’t pin it on Joe.
Last year he brought in Veras and Edwar and they got outs. This year they are not. Simple as that. Nobody is getting outs. Not even the savior Melancon in his SSS.
Just like how can you blame Randolph or Manual for the management of the Mets pen the last year? Nobody did because they were smart enough to realize the entire pen was awful and there was no magic combo to fix it.
I did see some of Joba’s outing, though. Thank goodness I missed the first inning.
2 things. The umpire wa quite, um, generous at times.
Another thing, I thought Joba showed up the ump in the inning where he didn’t get the call. Twice jumping up and down. This is the one he walked one (bogus calls) and plunked the next guy.
He needs to watch that IMO. Umps remember that kind of stuff.
“It was Melancon that loaded the bases tonight. The nervous excuse is a BS copout.”
Exactly, GB. Kind of funny to see all these people making excuses for him.
If Cashman fires Girardi, it would be an indictment on him.
That would be basically saying he doesn’t know how to fix the problems, so he is going to fire the manager and hope the problems fix themselves.
Girardi might as well flip a coin when he makes a pitching change decision. Other than Coke, he has nada to work with. No one can throw strikes, and on the rare occasions when they do, they get raked.
Dave that’s kind of my point though. Some of my fellow Yankee fans whine about Papelbon and Reyes’ celebrating and then give Joba a pass for going way over the top. He was down 4-3 and just gopt out of the 5th. I don’t see Santana or Halladay or too many other pitchers do that.
Melancon will come around.
Meanwhile, reading these threads is painful. My head hurts.
Jobas change is stupid good.
http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com.....id=4439255
A lot of folks on this blog wet their pants with excitement when the Yankees call up someone new. Sadly, the novelty wears off rather quickly in most cases.
Dave in DC
He has sucked? Really?
He didn’t allow any runs in his first two outings against the Sox, and then was brought in with the bases loaded when Girardi left Pettitte in too long, and yet we are surprised that he may have been over anxious tonight.
Stick to the facts.
Kind of funny to see people who think they know baseball flipping out because a rookie didn’t have any control tonight. FIRST TIME EVER IN BASEBALL HISTORY, MUST SUCK. Give me a break. Melancon sucked tonight, anyone who thought he was going to be perfect everytime out is an idiot. Some of the best in history have games where they just don’t have it, and Melancon’s just a rookie. While I agree it’s foolish to act like he’s invincible and this must have been some crazy thing, those of you insulting the Melancon supporters while acting like he’s the first person to ever walk the bases loaded are being equally as foolish.
Zman – the pen will improve and the yanks will start to hit with RISP. Its bound to happen. If you have a solid lineup eventually you start hitting with people on sometimes. The pen has parts that were solid last year and added to that melancon who is probably the best prospect in the system at the start of the season. I think they will start to come together as a group as well and partciularly start rolling once bruney and marte are back,
Terrible take, Pete. If George were running this team, our roster wouldn’t be nearly as depleted as it is.
GB, Great observation about the catching situation and the pitchers ( AJ & Pettite ) game profiles….I just wish Giradi would assign defined roles in the 6th-7th-8th innings..Give thses guys a role for a few weeks, can;t be worse than the mixing and hoping craziness
“Meanwhile, reading these threads is painful. My head hurts.”
Seriously. I honestly question if some of these people are really truly baseball fans, or just the fair weather ones who hop on the bandwagon. I don’t see how anyone who has actually followed baseball for a long time can seriously sit here and flip out this much over a .500 start. It’s frustrating but, forget all time, Yankee teams in the past 4 years have started out worse than this and won the division. Frustrating, sure, but I don’t know how anyone can throw this much of a fit in May and call themselves a baseball fan.
Dave — I disagree completely regarding the pen. You can’t tell me there’s anyone out there with a track record of success. As far as clutch hitting goes, it wasn’t there last season, so we’ll wait and see.
My pecking order or relievers
1. Coke
2. Robertson
3. Veras
4. Edwar
5. Melancon
6. Albaladejo
Sadly, outside of Coke, I don’t think any of them can throw a 1-2-3 or scoreless inning. They are just as likely to give up a hit/walk/run as they are to record an out.
It was Melancon that loaded the bases tonight. The nervous excuse is a BS copout.
——————————–
God… you really are a tard. Remember a bases clearing double given up by Melancon??
http://www.tardblog.com
Because George has the magic medic kit.
Green Beret
It was Melancon that loaded the bases tonight. The nervous excuse is a BS copout.
__
You are conflating two outings.
On May 1st he was brought in with the bases loaded.
Tonight he loaded the bases.
I am of the opinion that bringing him in on May 1st with the bases loaded was a poor way to develop a young pitcher with two career major league appearances.
Consequently, I’m not surprised that he was anxious tonight.
That’s not an excuse, it’s an explanation.
We need to offer a boat load of money to Bill James or Keith Law and offer them full autonomy and ask them to fix the team
Since there were some dark Magnetic Fields quotes flying around at the end of the game thread, I’m providing a little optimistic balance from a Yo La Tengo song that just came up in shuffle while I was driving home from dinner:
“Although you don’t believe me you are strong
darkness always turns into the dawn
and you won’t even remember this for long
when it ends alright”
I’ve been on the bandwagon since 1972, but everyone has a right to call a spade a spade. A “true fan” does not mean one who is not obsequious and non-ncritical.
carl May 6th, 2009 at 12:20 am
Torre would be worse.
————————————————————–
Yeah, that’s why the Dodgers are in first place by five games with the best run differential in the majors–not to mention, perfect at home. Because Torre sucks. Idiot.
Give Torre this bullpen and the results are the same.
Melancon has made 4 appearances and has faced a hitter with the bases loaded in 3 of them, 2 of them by his own doing.
ZMAN7777
Give Torre this bullpen and the results are the same.
__
Although I agree, I view that as an indictment of Girardi rather than a defense.
Well, tomorrow is another day. We can only hope that the veteran starters go deep into the game.
Hughes will pitch a no-no this Saturday.
Giuseppe Franco
May 6th, 2009 at 12:14 am
There is a silver lining to what went on tonight.
Joba is really starting to get on a roll. The Red Sox had no chance after the 1st inning.
================
Having just returned from steering through a driving rain, all I could do was reflect on how indomitable Joba was after that first-inning hiccup.
Honestly, the game result was disappointing, but after that Joba display – who cares??
I’d go through that iffy ride home with the 18-wheelers drenching me from both sides to see that dominant a performance by a young Yankee starter again.
Just awesome. Everything else just doesn’t matter right now. What a gem we have.
Re Melancon: don’t think he warmed up enough and it was drizzly and cold. Hardly a portent of things to come. Whoever is doubting that he belongs – my response is you don’t know much about the kid.
Re this mini-series: Other than injuries, we’re in a kind of EST mode, because we’re not returning the same team, but have added some major pieces. As for our worthy opponents, I have to say I like our club better over the long haul, even though I think they’re a fine group that pass to baton amongst them better than we do at this point.
Still like our upside better and I can’t worry about the obsessive inferiority complex talk radio is trying to shove down my throat, because I just don’t buy it.
One last thing: it’s comical how a disappointing April/May fling with Boston can so destabilize people who normally rely on numbers to tell the story that they resort to the columnist lexicon:
1). we don’t have the “intangibles”,
2). we suffer from an entropic “clubhouse culture” of losers
3). we’ve swapped psychological positions with Boston since 2004,
4). all of our homegrown talent (Cano, Joba, Hughes, for instance) fails and Boston’s always succeeds
5). etc.
Be forewarned: if you write this kind of crap, I am coming after to you to support it with facts. And I’m also going to be all over you if we rise from the “ashes” of being .500 and 4.5 GB and lead the division in mid-June, to tell me again how our clubhouse culture has doomed any success we might have.
Meanwhile, a middle fingered salute from Joba to all those idiots who were booing him after he walked off the mound after the top of the first. You earned it.
Bringing Bobby Valentine in to manage is a disaster waiting to happen. Why do you think that he’s been fired from so many places? Ownership, front office and players can’t stand him.
he only managed two teams. He did a pretty good job his first few years with the Mets. Dragging the 2000 Mets to the world series was a incredible job. He never had an ace there and their closers were chokers.
igotid88 — I’ll gladly take 7 innings from Phil in which he gives up 2 or 3 runs.
Melancon was nervous to pitch in a 6-3 game?
You guys do realize you are making him sound mentally weak by the excuses you are making for him
“He was nervous!!”
“He was feeling the effects of his last outing!!”
He can’t just struggle to adjust to the big leagues without a built in excuse? You guys set your expectations way out of whack with this guy. Let him breathe.
“I’ve been on the bandwagon since 1972, but everyone has a right to call a spade a spade. A “true fan” does not mean one who is not obsequious and non-ncritical.”
There’s a difference between “This team is flawed and here’s where I think they need some work” and the attitude in here of “OMG THIS TEAM SUCKZ FIRE GIRARDI HE IZ THE WORST AUTO FOURTH PLACE FINISH”. If you’ve been watching since 1972 then I’m sure you’ve seen worse starts than this where the Yankees came back to win the division or make the wild card or whatever. Does that mean the team is perfect, absolutely not, does it mean it won’t require work, of course not, but to write the season off right now and call for Girardi to be fired when it’s not his fault only two guys in the entire bullpen right now can do anything is ridiculous.
Nick
May 6th, 2009 at 12:54 am
Melancon has made 4 appearances and has faced a hitter with the bases loaded in 3 of them, 2 of them by his own doing.
======
Your point?
Bodhisattva — are you coming after us with pitchforks and torches or will it be a pillow fight?
carl May 6th, 2009 at 12:20 am
Torre would be worse.
———————————————————————————————
Yeah, that’s why the Dodgers are in first place by five games with the best run differential in the majors—not to mention, perfect at home. Because Torre sucks. Idiot.
Saint Joe was floundering in L.A till the Manny trade. Without the Manny trade they would have won 75 games last year.
Everything you hear about Melancon is that his mental makeup is off the charts. That’s the first thing the scouting reports say.
I somehow doubt he was still feeling mental effects from his last outing or that he was nervous in his 4th appearance. He’ll be fine though
Kyle — who’s calling for Girardi to be fired? I think he’s being unjustly singled out and I’ve defended him time and again. Cashman? That’s another story.
Speaking of Manny… what a mistake passing on him was.
He gives us everything we need— power bat in the middle of the lineup who can carry a team, clutch hitting, big game pedigree, swagger, intimidation, everything.
Yeah, the guy is a clown and can’t play defense, but he would solve so many of our offensive and mental woes. You think he presses or gets nervous in a big spot? No, he smacks the crap out of the ball.
I’m noticing some people here put WAY WAY too much on the manager. Nine times out of ten, when a team wins, it’s because the TEAM is good, whether the manager is good or no. And nine times out of ten, when a team loses, it’s because the TEAM is bad, whether the manager is bad or not. How often do we see a team with a universally praised manager suddenly lose a few seasons in a row? A lot, because, get this, the team wasn’t that good. Not to base Torre, who I like, but the Dodgers are playing well because their TEAM is good and they’re in a bad division. Torre’s not some magical presence taking them from a losing record to leading the division.
The manager does matter, but not nearly as much as some of you guys seem to think.
Tommy,
I dont mind when players from other teams celebrate when they do something really well so I also like to see when the yanks celebrate on the field sometimes. It provides an energy and shows that the team actually cares. And I would say the same thing if i saw reyes do it. I know guys like halladay and santana dont but they are much older than joba and have been in the league for quite some time. This is all still pretty new and exciting for joba and he is at least 6 years younger than them if not more. I dont find anything wrong with his excitement. I think he got a little too anxious walking off the mound after each pitch that one inning but i still didnt think there was much wrong with it unless the ump started to get ticked off but that is not celebrating.
i ALSO think that this rotation when all its engines kick in will rival the best in baseball. To say it wont go deep enough in its starts has no evidence. Hughes has already shown he can go pretty deep when he is on. With that first inning wasting 30 pitches, joba can have pitched 7 or 8 innings tonight and has gone deep into a game before. CC is a horse and pettitte does pitch his fair share of innings. Wang also goes deep into games when he comes back and throws a lot of innings. Burnett has only thrown full seasons a few times in his career which makes him a health risk but he also can pitch 7 innings a start. I dont foresee that being a problem and think that when the rotation starts to really mesh, it will be taking a ton of pressure off the pen. Our rotation is the strongest part of our team and will continue to be all season barring major injuries. I think that if this team wins the world series, it will do it off the back of its starting staff,
The lineup has holes now but when healthy it really doesnt. The problem is health for them and consistency and hitting in the clutch. Primarily the latter is my biggest concern. But a lineup of Jeter, damon, arod, teixeira, swisher/Nady, posada, matsui, cano, Melky/Gardner (whoever is hitting better at the time) is hardly a lineup with holes or weak spots. Melky has been hitting well so far this season and that ninth spot is the only weak spot if any. Matsui, cano, swisher and damon are all already hitting really well for the season so far and jeter is being jeter. I am not worried at all that tex wont come around and arod will come back and hit well if not great. That is a very strong lineup even without nady. Posada shouldnt be gone too long. That lineup certainly makes pitchers work if nothing else with every hitter in the top 7 capable of having VERY high OBP of 380 or higher. Cano’s is around that now as well and has been walking more. That is a ton of runs to be scored when arod comes back on FRIDAY.
carl May 6th, 2009 at 12:20 am
Torre would be worse.
———————————————————————————————
Yeah, that’s why the Dodgers are in first place by five games with the best run differential in the majors—not to mention, perfect at home. Because Torre sucks. Idiot.
Saint Joe was floundering in L.A till the Manny trade. Without the Manny trade they would have won 75 games last year.
Yeah because we play in the NL West. For the most part the dodgers are healthy. This team is not. Idiot.
ZMAN: Lots of people are in this thread. I wasn’t saying you were though, I was responding to you since you responded to me previously, but I haven’t noticed you in here yelling for Girardi to be fired or claiming the season is over. But there’s plenty of that happening here. I’ve seen at least two people already claim the only reason the Yankees lost to Boston is because Girardi doesn’t know how to beat them, as if 25 players all decided since Joe Girardi is the manager they don’t want to play hard anymore. It’s one of the silliest things I think I’ve ever read here, and at least two people actually made the claim.
The bullpen is a mess. It needs Joba there. Having him solves 6 players at once.
Can A-Rod pitch?
If so, don’t know how big of a help he will be. He’ll add to the lineup but instead of losing 7-3, we’ll lose 7-6. He’ll help us win some shootouts, but he isin’t going to fix the root of the problem which is the pitching.
$Htman213
May 6th, 2009 at 12:49 am
It was Melancon that loaded the bases tonight. The nervous excuse is a BS copout.
————————————————
God… you really are a tard. Remember a bases clearing double given up by Melancon??
http://www.tardblog.com
————————————————————
Realizing that reading comprehension is most likely not your strong suit, what part of ***tonight*** was it that confused you?
I don’t think the season is in the toilet, but they can’t fall double-digit games behind Boston. This group is not the ’78 team (though Ron Davis would come in very handy right now).
I think the first person to blame is Randy Levine. He’s the one who was in charge of the new stadium being built and the prices, which apparently he thought everyone would pay anything to go see the Yankees, no matter what the economy and what the conditions. The economy started tanking last year and they had plenty of warning to restructure the prices. He was also instrumental in geting Joe Torre run out of town because he wanted to have the power and hated the fact that Joe Torre was loved in NY.
I live in LA, and Torre is doing great. He really only has one legend on the team and the rest are supporting stars or good role players. You cannot under estimate the importance of good role players. Too many stars is like to many cooks in the kitchen. It never works out. The Lakers tried it with Shaq, Kobe, Gary Payton, Karl Malone, Derek Fisher and Coach Phil Jackson and they didn’t win the championship. Got beat by Detroit with not near the talent.
As for Girardi, I think the problem is not that he should not have gotten the Yankee job, just not at the time that he did. Too many of the stars used to be his teammates. When things were going bad, Joe Torre, was like the father figure to these guys and he could calm them down when it was needed.
How would Manny be saving the team? Johnny Damon and Hideki Matsui have been doing fine for the most part (the only two guys who really could have lost playing time for Manny, unless you want to move him to right field, in which case so long Nick Swisher). Unless Manny learned how to play center field or third base recently, he wouldn’t have done much. He’d be replacing a guy who’s been hitting well anyway.
Just gibe Melanchon the 6th inning spot Robertson the 7th inning spot…They will grow comfortable far faster with a set role…
Kyle — I actually like Girardi. I think he’s in an untenable position right now. He must be choking on his bile whenever he goes to the mound to make a pitching change.
Don’t look now but Melky is leading the team in BA and has a higher OBP than anyone on the Yanks not named Swisher.
Outside of the Detroit games, have we won a comfortable game all season?
Seems like most of our games are blowout losses, late game losses, or rally wins.
Corey: Just so you know, even in the bullpen, Joba could pretty much just pitch one inning maybe 4 times a week tops. He doesn’t magically throw 2-4 innings every single night, so no, he doesn’t solve “6 guys at once”. He “solves” the problem of one person in the bullpen (I guess the setup man role, which will be fixed when Bruney comes back anyway) and then creates a much bigger hole in the starting rotation that ends up filled by someone like Brett Tomko. No thanks.
I don’t think there is anything wrong with fans and posters saying the team is lacking intangibles and doesn’t know how to win these games.
The fact is the team is lacking intangibles and doesn’t know how to win these games.
They had 4 baserunners on against Papelbon last night and no one could step up and get a hit and deliver a knock out to him.
Tonight, they get back into the game and then fail to get over the hump.
This isn’t the first game they have shown this.
This is who the team is today.
If in 2 months they are on a roll, I think it’s very reasonable to suggest that they are learning how to win as a group.
The problem is if it takes them too long, the pressure only gets worse and some of these guys don’t handle pressure like others.
The fact is they should have won last night and if Joba came out of the bullpen with the stuff he discovered after his first inning they would have won tonight.
Should of/would of gets this team nowhere and even Girardi said that in his post game. He’s getting to point that pointing out the pollyanna positives doesn’t mean squat in the win column.
I hope they learn from these losses and it bothers them and they come back later this year and avenge them.
They just can’t keep playing .500. They need to put a string together full of quality starts and solid offensive production…and that string needs to last for more than 2 games.
carl
Yeah, that’s why the Dodgers are in first place by five games with the best run difference.
__
I thought it was the talent and the weak competition.
*shrugs*
ZMAN7777
May 6th, 2009 at 1:00 am
Bodhisattva—are you coming after us with pitchforks and torches or will it be a pillow fight?
=========
The pen is mightier than the sword
Yep, River Mike. That’s what normally happens when your starters underperform and your bullpen sucks.
Everyones blamin bullpen or manager. How ’bout gettin more than 5-6 inns from starters? No pen or manager can overcome that. Why don’t starters throw strikes? less pitches?!
When I was young/pitching I had to run and strenghthen legs to have good control. I never hear about todays pitchers running. Is that the problem?
I’ve already conceded the division to BOS and am focused on getting losses for Tampa/Toronto so we can have a clear shot at the WC.
Rooting against Boston is frustrating and frankly, a lost cause. I just want to get into the playoffs. Maybe when we start playing better and get on role, we can focus on the division. But for now, I’m focusing on clearing the way to a playoff spot.
I agree ZMAN. I like Girardi as well. I do think he’s overmanaged a few times with the bullpen this year, but he’s trying to do SOMETHING. It’s not his fault nobody except Coke and Mariano can get outs, and it’s not his fault when Wang goes 1 inning, gives up 8 runs, and forces him to patch together 8 innings of an almost certain loss with a stretched out bullpen. There’s only so much Girardi can do.
And I think it’s funny that people want him fired…I neither praise the manager when the team does well nor bash him when they do poorly unless it’s clearly deserved either way, but if I was one of those people, I’d be praising Girardi for the team being at .500 considering the vast number of injuries and complete ineffectiveness from multiple people.
Time to bring up Claggett and Steven Jackson to see if they can save the pen. Why not? Can’t be worse than Alba, Veras, Edwar etc.
G. Love
May 6th, 2009 at 1:10 am
I don’t think there is anything wrong with fans and posters saying the team is lacking intangibles and doesn’t know how to win these games.
The fact is the team is lacking intangibles and doesn’t know how to win these games.
==========================================
Nothing wrong with it, if you want to write something that is a load of hot air, sounds like Mike Lupica, and illuminates nothing at all.
Phrases like “don’t know how to win” imply something fundamentally and organically wrong and terminal. The trouble with that is once the team strings some wins together and beats the Mighty Red Sox – whom many here seem to genuflect before – where does that leave your little theory? Let me guess: they have since “learned” “how to win.”
Crock of S*** that sedentary people shooting the S*** at 1 a.m. have no evidential basis for. All you have is a result that has hurt your feelings.
I know everyone is focused on the playoffs, but I really just want to enjoy watching this team again . . . to feel a sense of optimism.
people are coming up with excuses for melancon because its a little hard to believe he would struggle with his control enough to walk three batters and zero outs without some other factor being involved because he had only walked 3 batters in his entire stint in scranton this year which spanned over 10 innings and only walked 27 in 112 minor league innings and walked 2 in his first 4 innings in the majors. So to walk 3 in a row is a little unlike him especially because this was his third game already so its not like he was extremely nervous for his first major league outing but i think there was something else wrong and girardi knew it which is why he didnt put him in until the game was 6 to 3 rather than trying to let him keep it close at 4 – 3 when he opted for the struggling edwar,
I think its A-rods time.
I think he is going to take this team by storm and get this team going in the right direction. Its evident that we need him to win. Yes A-rod has all that pressure because of the allegations, but he wants to prove he is truly great. He is going to have a chip on his shoulder and only care about baseball and changing his reputation.
Mark my words, he is going to carry this game and have the most monsterous season ever!!
He will not go down as the biggest idiot in New York Sports. This season will define him, and a ring will be placed on his finger this year.
ITS A-RODS TIME TO TAKE THE SPORTS WORLD OVER
Girardi hasn’t done great, but he is far from the problem. Firing him accomplishes nothing, the bullpen still sucks.
or albadejo whoever pitched in the 4-3 part of the game and gave up the runs.
so are we the east coast texas rangers now?
I think Edwar needs some good down-home-cooking in SWB. Let him rent a house, put on 20 pounds and get that weight over the century mark once and for all.
Albaladejo = Chris Britton
Should not be on the roster
It’s not an excuse, dave. He sucked tonight, but when a young pitcher has the serous talent that he has (and the team has a huge need that he can fill), you develop him with care, and on May 1st, Girardi failed to do that.
Patience.
Pat M
May 6th, 2009 at 1:09 am
Just gibe Melanchon the 6th inning spot Robertson the 7th inning spot…They will grow comfortable far faster with a set role…
————————————————————
Without Bruney, it’s really throw the bullpen into a mess. I guess Coke in the 8th inning for now. I guess it really doesn’t make a lot of difference between Melancon and Robertson, although this is the first time I remember Melancon coming apart at the seams lie that…majors or minors.
Including last year, we’ve seen it from Robertson a few times…not so much with hits, as with completely losing the plate. I might be more inclined to back up Robertson with Melancon, though. If they are going well, and they haven’t been over worked, I might consider having the three of them each working 1.1 innings.
Corey — I hope you’re correct, but it sounds like you went just a little heavy on the medication tonight.
A different umpire and I don’t know that Joba’s line after the first would look so hot. At least three of his called strikeouts were on pitches off the plate. A number of other called strikes also were outside the strike zone. What I’m saying is that I’m not so sure he was fooling people so much as getting lucky.
That said, to his credit, Joba didn’t give up after a lousy first, worked very quickly (possibly too quickly–I saw at least one instance where he didn’t come to a complete stop in the set position), and took advantage of a generous strike zone.
Then again, he did get a little bratty when the rare call didn’t go his way.
All in all, fine performance tonight. I just hope that the next time he pulls a stricter ump, he doesn’t start throwing tantrums and fall apart.
bodi,
At least I’m not a racist tonight.
I think it’s just as insipid to sit on a message board and warn people for venting their frustrations on how poorly this team is playing with the threat that like an elephant you won’t forget and you’ll come back and remind us all how right you were.
You’re as much of a pompous arrogant jerkoff as anyone who comes in here and you know it…I wonder what it says about you that you feel the need to police the message board of a blog at 1:21am. It’s only 10:21pm where I am right now.
Who’s the bigger loser?
How can a $210 million dollar team be this bad?
This is the 4th year of Cashman’s “full autonomy”.
And all he has in the last 3 years are 2 playoff games won with the highest payroll in baseball. No playoff series won. One division title. One yr with no playoffs. No new homegrown players any good outside Joba and maybe Hughes (Cano and Wang were here before he got full control).
Now he spends $423 million this winter and we start off the season terribly. 0-5 vs. Boston, no bullpen, .500 team.
How is he still here?
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Bride+Jumping+For+Dummies
I can only imagine what Girardi says when he hands the ball to Alba, Ramirez, Veras, etc. It’s probably something like, “Just do your best, son.” I mean, he can’t say what he’s really thinking.
I did not go on medication tonight.
How do you not see this. Its his time to SHINE.
Its like, watching a movie right now. All the adversity in the world. Just like all heDisney movies, the underdog prevails in the end and proves the world wrong.
A-rod is a good guy, got stuck up in being rich and famous. He has hit rock bottom. He is going to dig real deep this year, man up and prove to all Yankee fans why is he is the most talented baseball player in the major leagues and finally earn his stripes.
G Love — Bod. is one of those people with whom you don’t argue. He won’t give an inch and thinks his view is the only correct one; that his reactions are the only appropriate ones. Just go ahead and be yourself. It’s cool.
guys do not be suprised if Melancon get sent down. Did not see the game but david cones comment he looked nervous is not a good thing. also I expect him to give up some hits but walk 3 in a row, he is suppose to be a mega strike thrower.
now after the game we get the Pena bunt thread, classic loser 2nd guess fan.
enough with the talk maybe AJ can pitch a very good game, goe forbid. On the Joba front I think he will be a very good starter and should be a starter but the bottom line he pitched 5 2/3 and threw 108 pitches.. he has to figure out things faster…
every starter has some excuse, it is getting old.. look at the walks to K’s on this pitching staff, it is scary bad……
Phil Coke was a converted starter… he was average as a starter but had a velocity spike and became dominant as a reliever.
Time to start trying more of this— turn some of our starters into relievers in the minors to see if they can have a Coke-like impact. A guy like Kontos could be wicked with his FB/Slider combo.
There is nobody else left in the minors that are currently relievers outside of Dunn. Time to try some starters out in relief. Tell them to air it out and see what they have.
Send Melancon down for who exactly?
He has looked awful, but sadly is still probably our 3rd best arm right now.
That’s why Veras and Edwar are getting 9 lives. Who else is better? We’ve used up all our depth now.
they need to add a bat immediately for pinch hitting etc especially with molina in the lineup..
they need to get to 12 pitchers now………….
Stuart — when it comes to this team, and especially its bullpen, I doubt much can surprise us at this point.
Zmann,
No problems being myself. He’s just a moron. He knows he’s a moron.
He must be a joy to deal with/live with in real life.
The number of times people in his life have probably wanted to hit him in the face with a large dead fish or a shoe are probably off the charts.
I’m just happy he’s backed off calling people who wanted to see Gardner and his speed get a chance to play everyday “racists”.
again I did not see the game but Melancon who should be astar cannot appear nervous and can give up hits(off night) but walking 3 straight guys will not cut it.
I send down Abedalajo 1st he has moves, but all bets are off…
there pen so far has been worse then the indians and nationsal!!!!How is that possible….
I saw good things from our young starters these last 2 days. While it wasn’t a great game for Hughes. It could’ve been much worse. If he didn’t get squeezed. If Molina doesn’t let the ball get past him. Maybe those 4 runs don’t happen. But they did. But it still could’ve gone out of hand. He fought through it as much he could. And Joba while not having it in the first inning strikes out 12 the next 4 2/3 innings. And was basically lights out and kept them in the game as much he could.
Rather than being fired, Joe G. really deserves hazard pay. I bet he has the intestines of a 90-year-old by now.
Tomorrow’s game plan:
140 pitches for Burnett. Do not take him out before the 9th inning unless he clearly has nothing and we’re trailing like 8-0. Do not go to the bullpen under any circumstances unless it’s for MO.
may 6th they have 2 reliable pen arms.. coke and MO.. that is it.. that is scary…..
they really need the high priced starters to pitch like it…..
Dave don’t see it. Hughes has one start where he went deep and all of a sudden he can go deep in games hold your horses. Joba really never was a guy that gave his teams inning in college or the minors. I just don’t see him doing that. Plus he and Hughes have extenstive injury histories early on.
I watch this team and am baffled how we are .500.
We look so bad, like the Washington Nationals bad.
tommy and carl:
You can’t possibly believe that Torre would be doing worse in New York than Girardi’s done. Torre led the Yankees to the postseason every single year he was here. And he did it with teams that were even worse than this one. Torre was and is an awesome manager, and it was utterly retarded to let him go. (Now, I’m not saying Girardi’s bad, although he is even slower with the hook than Torre was (which Girardi might not have had to be had Aceves been with the club from opening day). I’m just saying it’s idiotic to say that Torre wouldn’t have at least managed this team to a .500 record so far.)
(I’m also not saying that the ’09 Yanks are really bad. Add two decent arms to the bullpen and this would be a kick-ass squad, even with Posada gone for a few weeks. I mean, even with Rod out for the past month, we could’ve won at least a couple more games had we had a couple of reliable relievers in the bullpen, and maybe one or two more had Aceves been there from the get-go.)
LOL 140 pitches? It’s not Game 7 of the World Series. You do want Burnett to make a few other starts this year, don’t you? And besides, isn’t it kinda cool to see Edwar on the mound. He makes me believe that humans can truly exist in only two dimensions.
I agree that another bat on the bench is in order. Let’s see Miranda called up and actually get some at bats.
Relying on Nady and Posada to come back and address the offense and depth is not the best course of action.
Nady may not be able to throw and will be Matsui from the right side and who knows how long Jorge will be out.
Not to mention, Hughes and Joba are young and will have growing pains that we have to deal with.
Really puts pressure on CC and AJ. Also, Pettitte can no longer just pitch like a #5 starter that we expected where 7 innings, 5 runs is good enough, he has to be more than that.
CC has pitched just well enough to lose.
G Love — That will put Nady on par with Damon.
G Love — That will put Nady on par with Damon.
Judging by how inefficient our starters have thrown, 140 pitches probably gets AJ through the 6th inning at best….
Okay, I’m signing off. Night all. These 26 games have felt like 26 seasons.
stuart: Make that three. Aceves is worth his weight in gold. His not being with the team from day one has cost this team at least a couple of wins.
I went to Popeyes the other day, and they ran out of chicken.
I mean, how does that happen?
This isn’t 2 years ago. The Sox are better than us atm. We don’t have our best middle reliever, catcher, position player, bench player, Tex is sucking, CC is sucking, Aj is sucking, and so on. We don’t hit with risp. our 6-9 hitters are a black hole. We will get better. Right now we just don’t have a good team.
Zmann,
I think Damon intentionally throws the ball into the ground in front of him hoping that bounce will have more authority than his arm.
He’d be an incredible OF in stickball on pavement. I can only imagine what he could do with a Spaulding.
I’m still ticked at him for falling asleep in the OF the other day and letting that ball drop in front of him.
His lefty power is nice though.
Wang also lol.
G. Love
May 6th, 2009 at 1:22 am
bodi,
At least I’m not a racist tonight.
I think it’s just as insipid to sit on a message board and warn people for venting their frustrations on how poorly this team is playing with the threat that like an elephant you won’t forget and you’ll come back and remind us all how right you were.
You’re as much of a pompous arrogant jerkoff as anyone who comes in here and you know it…I wonder what it says about you that you feel the need to police the message board of a blog at 1:21am. It’s only 10:21pm where I am right now.
Who’s the bigger loser?
============
Well, I guess you’re having a good night, then, by default.
What’s arrogant – and frankly stupid – is making sweeping statements about a team’s “character” just because you don’t happen to like the results you’re seeing.
That’s entirely different from constructively discussing issues that are tangible and entertaining solutions, such as the “A” bullpen vs. the “B” bullpen; that at least has some basis in reality.
I have no issue with thoughtful posts, whether I disagree with them or not. If I do, hopefully I construct a worthy rebuttal.
I am not going to applaud undisciplined posts about how we suck at baseball morality just because of few losses in April have people’s noses out of joint.
For instance, those claiming we “don’t know how to win” – would Mariano Rivera, who blew the save last Friday in Fenway, be among that group?
If he doesn’t blow the save, and we win, do we, then, “know how to win” Friday’s game?
You see, this is a fun game.
“[O]ur 6-9 hitters are a black hole.”
Not true. I know Swish doesn’t normally bat so low, but six through nine today were him, Melky, Pena, and Molina. Swish is the man, Melky’s legit, Pena’s shown promise, and Molina–while he’s no Posada–isn’t the automatic out that, say, Gardner is.
These Yankees have only one serious problem, and that’s the bullpen. The lineup will score runs, and the rotation will keep them from scoring. The pen is a disaster, though, and Cashman, et al., have got to make some moves.
Actually, while he’s making moves, maybe he can come up with a better bat off the bench than freaking Brett Gardner.
I gotta see how I feel by the all-star break. By no means is it too early, it’s no longer April, but the season is long. Certain players need to get healthy others just need to step it up. The Pen and the pitching in general has been the biggest disappointment for me thus far.
Damn it. Again, the strikethrough was not intentional.
GZA my bad Swish is the man. Should have been 7-9.
its still a mystery to me how this team didn’t sign juan cruz
Tonight swisher picked up a beer bottle in right and took a mock sip from it.
Love swisher.
In spite of that first inning Joba pitched a great game. And what can I say about his exhuberance tonight – that is part of his pitching makeup. I have seen others do it. He got the crowd into the game which hasn’t been happening lately. First he is criticized for not showing emotion and when he does he is criticized. Can’t have it both ways.
And no more talk about Joba to the bull pen, please.
Didn’t see Melacon pitch. But believe it he is a keeper. I am confused by the way Girardi uses the bull pen. Is it necessary to use so many pitchers as he does.
It is awful to lose to BS 2 times in a row – but dang – there are still games to go in the season. They have to play Toronto and TB. Let’s see how well they do w/o Jacoby and Youk.
Come on fans, have faith. This is the Yankees you are talking about. Thye know how to win.
Unfortunate that we lost, but it was great to see Joba pitch the way he did tonight. His tenacity on the mound, though he gave up the runs in the first, reminded me of his pitching duel last year against Beckett where we won 1-0 due to Joba holding them at zero runs. Again, although we lost, it’s good to see a pitcher step it up in a big spot. As much as the players like to play it down, the rivalry between New York and Boston is huge. It says a lot about Joba that two of his best starts have come against the Sox. He’s only 23 and with time he will become more economical and be able to consistently pitch 7 innings.
When people get done whining ang throwing your temper tantrums, fits about how the Yankees are playing or who life has treated you so unfairly, read this article about Greg Norton of the Braves. Maybe you’ll realize that things aren’t so bad afterall.
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/articl.....8;c_id=mlb
yanks should sign frank thomas for the bench if they aren’t willing to trade for decent bench players
you can’t have defensive replacements like molina and pena in pressure situations. we need a guy ruben sierra… shelley duncan perhaps?
The only thing the Yankees can do is ride it out – I am just as frustrated with this bullpen as anyone, but the talent that can replace them from the minors is not better. I can’t sit here and say JB Cox is a better option than Veras, or Steven Jackson is better than Edwar…or that Claggett is better than Albie. You may as well go with the best arms, and hope one emerges, and that Bruney gets back sooner than later.
If Coke keeps up his recent pitching, and Bruney comes back healthy….you are now three deep. You will then need one of Melancon/Ramirez/Veras/Robertson to emerge for depth. Aceves would provide the long relief.
I don’t want to make it sound so simple, but it really can be simple – but the first thing that needs to happen is the emergence of one of the struggling relievers to be a reliable 6th-7th inning guy..someone to pitch alongside Coke to get the game to Bruney/Mo….again, assuming Bruney comes back healthy.
I still think Melancon can be that guy…but obviously, he can’t pitch like he did tonight. I think Robertson is always going to have a walk rate that is a bit high – but will still be a major-league quality mid-leverage reliever.
It’s hard to stay patient with a bullpen that has been this terrible – but there have been bullpens in the past that have looked terrible, only to emerge as the season went along. So hope is not lost…..and again, it’s not like the Yankees can go out and get a new bullpen (without doing something really stupid), so you have no choice but to hope for the best.
Is it just me, or does this Yankees team seem to very resourceful? They seem able do do whatever it takes to lose even on a night when Joba is dominating for every inning but one.
For anyone who loves watching a dim-witted Goliath of a team stagger around and lose, fear not. Once Posada’s contract is finally off the books, I’m sure we’ll be able to look forward to Captain Intangible (aka “No Range”) manning the shortstop position for the Yankees for at least four years at an equally absurd price.
Yankee haters everywhere rejoice!
If the Yankees want to have any chance to ever be able to beat an extremely well run team like Boston again, perhaps they should pay their old stars to pose in Monument Field instead of be on the roster — where they’re more suited to pretend to play or be on the DL.
As exasperating as it was to watch Phil Hughes throw fastball after fastball the night before, can anyone explain the logic of throwing those last 3 breaking balls to Varitek last night? Varitek looked helpless flailing at outside fastballs on the first 2 strikes. Then they do him a favor by throwing nothing but breaking balls that kept getting his bat on the next 3 pitches. Who calls the pitches? Molina? If so, he did a terrible job.
in addition to the pitching problems the problem with the yankees are injuries & either half the lineup is old & slow & the other half is just not that good like gardner,molina,etc….
this team just does not have the look or feel of a winner.
we win one & lose one,win two & lose two.
the good teams like the rs overcome the problems.right now the yankees are not overcoming their problems.
the pitching is just not getting it done.
For those of you who want to get rid of Girardi. I agree! The question is who is going to take his place? Tony Pena??
with managers you just don’t know who would be the right fit or not.
look at torre.
i get a feeling that girardi is not the right guy.
this team needs an older manager.
girardi is better suited for a young team.
why not trade some of our prospects for an outfielder & some bullpen help.
gardner,melky,kennedy & others should be used to get a cf,a bat & some bullpen help.
“tommy, are you a fool? Joba brought whatever life this team and crowd had today. Stop acting like a grandpa”
So when you strike someone out in a game your team is losing and you fist pump and scream and all that other stuff it’s bringing life to the team. But when you strike someone out to finish a game that your team has just won that’s showboating? Nice to see Yankees fans aren’t hypocrites.
Joba pitched great. Then he looked like a punk by hitting Bay just because Bay dares to hit a home run off of him.
Me,
Joba hitting Bay is old school baseball. You think Beckett doesn’t plunk people on purpose? Do you think Joba did that on his own? Girardi was fu&$ing miffed monday night b/c of the potential sign stealing and told the Sox 1B coach he was going to get someone hurt. Bay’s mastery of the Yanks so far this season and Monday night’s escapades just got this going. The Sox will get back at the Yanks, probably hitting A-Rod when the Yanks see Boston again.
As for the yanks as a whole, I am glad there are some reasonable fans blogging about the good things the Yanks have, the fact that there are injuries to overcome and that it is still early May. You can name at least a dozen teams that started off poorly each of the last 4-5 years that stayed in the fight and kept climbing up off the mat to make it to September with a chance (Phillies- twice, Rays, Rockies and many more).
The one thing that will kill the Yanks this year is/are injuries. Posada’s injury is HUGE. Bruney’s is HUGE, as is Nady’s. Not b/c Nady is great, but he gives the team a reasonable bench. If these guys don’t come back healthy and able we are screwed.
The Yanks are in a tough spot with aging veterans and new young players. The vets are showing decline and injury, the new guys are showing jitters and rookie mistakes. I thought with the new starters we would be fine this year, but this might be a dreaded “rebuilding” year for us.
The bullpen is more atrocious than Teixeira’s batting average. But unlike Tex’s BA, the bullpen will not turn around. Even with Bruney coming back, the Yanks need a better bullpen.
“I thought with the new starters we would be fine this year, but this might be a dreaded “rebuilding” year for us.”
You don’t commit that much money to free agents and go on a rebuilding year.
There is major pressure to win now, way more than last year. With this kind of high priced team, results are expected. At least last year, they can justify that “we are waiting for Giambi, Abreu, Mussina, Pavano, et al to become FA so we have money to spend in the offseason”.
Now the money has been spent, and the results haven’t been much better. Girardi will be on the hot seat if this doesn’t turn around in the next couple of weeks.
All this crap about injuries is purely that….crap. Good teams find a way to win. The Yankees lost to a team last night with Nick Green and some guy named Bailey in the line-up. On top of that the teams “power hitter” (Ortiz) is clearly not the same hitter of past years. Additionally their ace is sporting a 7+ ERA and there #2 is at 5+ while their number three pitcher is on the DL. For every cry about A-rod or Poasada or Wang on the DL the Red Sox can cry equally loud yet they are 17-10 and 5-0 against the Yankees.
Good teams go into a game knowing they will win, they find a way to overcome adversity.
I was all giddy with the signing of CC and AJ and Tex and the acquisition of Swish but it seems the adage is true, you can’t put a group of mercenaries on the field expect them to overcome adversity.
When this team is going well they are going to look every bit the $200M club but when things are not looking good, they will look awful….that’s what mercenaries do.
Even with all the injuries, I have only one question:
How many of the over-.500 teams would we be willing to swap rosters with???
LA Dodgers, SF Giants, Chi Cubs, Cin Reds, Mil Brewers, St. Louis Cardinals, Florida Marlins, Phil Phillies, Detroit Tigers, Toronto Blue Jays, Boston Red Sox, Texas Rangers, Seattle Mariners and the Kansas City Royals.
Now HONESTLY, how many of those teams would you swap rosters with, even WITH the injuries???
How many of those teams have a better front four in the rotation??? A better lineup??? A better closer???
Do the Yankees have middle relief and setup issues??? You bet… How many of those teams DON’T???
There are PLENTY of managers around baseball getting more out of their teams than Joe Girardi gets out the Yankees, and there doing it with a lot less talent than Girardi is working with.
And an EXCELLENT point on the Red Sox lineup last night…
Nick Green at shortstop, Bailey at first base…
And don’t forget, that team has lost Dice K, Beckett has been awful, and Big Papi hasn’t hit a homer yet…
Think of all the excuses Joe Girardi would have if he were managing the Boston Red Sox… But they don’t need excuses… They keep winning.