Pitching matchups for the Rays series
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on May 06, 2009 
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Thanks, GB! That’s right, our Pat Kelly was Australian – had forgotten about that. He was a fun player to watch….
Sonnanstine/Burnett/Niemann are better than their baseball cards, at this point, but I really hope Burnett can get on track, and we can hammer the soft-tossers.
Sonnanstine, when on, is absolutely annoying (somehow, no one hits him hard), so hopefully he’s off.
AJ has to come up big tonight – he’s done it before, he has to do it again. If Cervelli catches, then AJ has to call his own game……I have faith in him – he wanted the big stage, the pressure games, well he’s got it now. I don’t expect him to start dominating until the weather heats up, but tonight he needs to be a leader.
AJ has to come up big tonight – he’s done it before, he has to do it again. If Cervelli catches, then AJ has to call his own game……I have faith in him – he wanted the big stage, the pressure games, well he’s got it now. I don’t expect him to start dominating until the weather heats up, but tonight he needs to be a leader.
There was a Pat Kelly who played for the White Sox in the 70′s….Everyday ballplayer
They’ll take both games. Despite Tampa improving the past couple of years the Yankees still have little trouble with the Rays.
Good piece by Rick Reilly on Pat Venditte on ESPN.com.
They better win both. AJ must step up. I know Andy will.
Trips to Baltimore and Toronto are on the horizon too.
uh-oh. rays pitchers have high era’s. you know what that means. yanks won’t be able to hit them.
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/s.....ity-issues
Excellent article.
No Kazmir. No Shields. No Garza.
We have our 2 best pitchers on the mound going
Very disappointed if we don’t get these 2. Outside of the 2 series against Boston, Tampa has lost every series they have played this year.
Francessa usually never gets this mad about the Yankees– he is very ticked about how the Sox have overtaken us and how they do everything right and we do everything wrong.
The Venditte article:
http://sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/story?id=4145564
I like how Rick Reilly suggests asking for two salaries.
My friend saw Venditte’s professional debut on Staten Island.
I love this kid.
Betsy
May 6th, 2009 at 1:32 pm
Thanks, GB! That’s right, our Pat Kelly was Australian – had forgotten about that. He was a fun player to watch….
——————————————————————————————
Actually, Betsy, “our Pat Kelly” was born in Philly. His wife is from Australia. He’s been spending his off seasons teaching kids in Australia how to play baseball. He’s pretty highly thought of there.
@ Yankee 822…
Just make sure we don’t go blaming Joe Girardi if they don’t win these two games… I mean, the Yankees have had to deal with injuries…
Nevermind that the Rays won’t have any of their top three starters going, and never mind that a Red Sox team playing with Nick Green at SS, some dude named Van Every in CF and some dude named Bailey at first base just waxed the Yankees last night….
Who one earth could possibly do better than .500 with CC Sabathia, AJ Burnett, Joba Chamberlain, Andy Pettitte, Mariano Rivera, Derek Jeter, Johnny Damon, Mark Teixeira, Hideki Matsui, Robinson Cano, and until last night, Jorge Posada????
Poor Joe Girardi is having to fight with a short stick.
PAT M. It get’s confusing…There were 3 Pat Kelly’s. The outfielder for Chicago, Baltimore and others was a pretty good ball player. some power, good outfielder and blazing speed. He was the brother of NFL HOFer Leroy Kelly.
Burnett better come up big tonight, and can somebody, anybody, please get a clutch hit ? Ticks me off that the yankees have raised their ticket prices to outrageous levels, and we, the fans, have to watch this crap they put out on the field.
this team sucks
PS. I forgot Nick Swisher waiting to take over for Nady when he went down.
Poor, poor Joe Girardi.
Fatessca going on a Joba fist pump rant…
shocking
Fran is livid about Joba’s fistpumps. He’s got a point considering they were losing the game and Joba’s line wasn’t so hot.
if your bullpen stinks so far, no one hits in the clutch(2nd worst BA with RISP) and your starters have not done the job and you have the worst ERA in baseball you are 13 and 13..
Yea it is Girardi’s fault!!!No it is the players fault; burnett dominate you clown, same for CC, Tex, get your avg up to at least 250… Cano with men on base don’t try to do to much just take what the pitcher gives you etc…
they have the talent…..
I’m more worried about us hitting Sonnanstine than I am about Burnett.
This is where Yankee fans drive me nuts. They want Joba to show emotion, he does, they bash him.
Leave the kid alone, let him develop, and stop expecting 9 inning shutouts, with 27 k on 81 pitches..
Think Pompous Mike is sort of right about Joba’s double fistpump. Timing was bad. Looks a silly down 4-3 in the middle innings. If he’s protecting a 1-0 lead or something late in a game, then give me the triple fistpump with a roundhouse kick, but not when you’re trailing.
We catch a break missing both Kazmir and Garza in this series, while both will face Boston this weekend in Fenway. Gotta sweep this series and hopefully get Arod back in the lineup Friday in Baltimore. Don’t know why we didn’t put in a claim on C Brayan Pena who was waived by KC. Gotta be a better solution than Cervelli who was hitting below the Mendoza line at AA
“No Kazmir. No Shields. No Garza.”
Kazmir hasn’t been doing great in his last few games.
fatcessa is a moron. I am sure he spent 1/2 the show yesterday on papelbums fist pumps.
he should be made at Joba’s 1st inning not his fist pump.
I am not a pitcher but if the guy throws 90 MPH in the first inning and 95 in the 5th, he maybe needs to adjust his pregame warmup so he is loose when he starts the game, just an idea…….
Not Girardi’s fault that this bullpen sucks
people in ny just need to complain it is something in the water..
It is beat up on the yankees month.. people are talking about the yankee attendance which still leads the league. look at league attendance it is horrible………..
What is problem with Joba’ fist pump? Who the heck cares besides him.
No one else seems to complain about it. The opposing players don’t care and if they did then get hits off of him if you don’t like it. Otherwise shut up.
My cousin said Kazmir is hurting his fantasy team. Hes sucked his last three starts. Garza and Shields are the only ones that have been productive
Despite all the crap in the comments here, I’m STILL excited I finally get to see the Yankees live in Baltimore on Saturday!
You know what, when Joba was more “subdued” on the mound, everyone said, “Where’s the Joba we know?” Maybe we have to take the whole package. Joba is who Joba is and maybe a few fist pumps is the price you pay for 12 K’s and a dominating performance after the first inning. I don’t really care about the fist pumps.
And Mike F never, ever has anything positive to say about the Yankees. Never. He’s not a Yankees fan.
Frankly, I have no idea why YES broadcasts this junk. (Well, I do know – easy ratings, low cost.)
I don’t watch him on purpose, then I come here and people are fawning over everything he says.
And why are people so willing to buy into the negative? And Francesa is negative – he is not constructive or instructive. He is merely a ranter – I guess it incites more listeners to call in. Controversy sells. And he acts as if it is personally damaging to him if the Yankees (or Mets, or whoever) isn’t doing what he thinks they should do.
Sorry. I gotta ignore the Francesa comments. I really, really do.
I was watching Venditte pitch in a game last year and saw something that the umps didn’t know how to deal with. The hitter came to the plate and Venditte switched hands so the hitter change to the other batters box. They went back and forth like that for a few minutes. There was no rule how to deal with that so it took the umps a few minutes to know what to do. They finally made the pitcher pick his side and then the hitter. The league made a rule to address it after that game. Not sure what the ruling was. Very unusal situation.
To be fair, Joba shouldn’t be pumping his fist when we are down 4-3 in the 5th inning and he gave up the 4 runs.
The fist pump gripe is absurd, Joba had just gotten something like 7 out of 8 outs on strikeouts and he was clearly locked in bigtime, plus it was the only moment besides Damon’s HR that the crowd actually got into the game a little bit and made some noise (besides booing Girardi for taking him out, and jeering the ‘pen for giving up runs).
GB7, That’s the Pat Kelly I was refering to.The Yanks Pat Kelly was a 2nd baseman who always injured….I think he came up in the late 80′s and was replaced by Steve Sax…..I sometimes confuse his arrival time with Randy Verlarde ( roids )when he played with Oakland
“he should be made at Joba’s 1st inning not his fist pump.”
He was, Stuart. His point was more or less “Why are we celebrating 5 2/3 innings of pitching with 4 ER’s allowed?” He seemed peturbed that that pitching line earned him “Player of the Game” on either YES, WCBS or something.
His point is not entirely bogus, though those last 4 2/3 innings were pretty special.
Who cares if he pumps his fist. Baseball is the only game in the world where you get chastised for showing emotion.
The fist pump “controversy” is just idiotic.
I WANT this kid to show emotion.
I WANT this team to show emotion.
Geez Louise, its SPORTS!!!
You are supposed to show some passion.
This team has been robotic for far too long.
I get the fact that Francesa has a 5+ hour show and needs to generate phone calls.
However, his “flock” shouldn’t appease him with mindless drivel.
The guy pitched great last night, save for one bad inning.
If this offense can’t score 5 runs a game, guess what? They aren’t going anywhere this year.
Keep the fist pumps going Joba. Especially if the K’s and the quality pitching continue.
Actually, I loved the fist pump. This team has no fire. No emotion. That’s only part of the problem, but the last thing we need to be doing is calling upon Joba to be stoic on the field like the rest of our apathetic team.
Really? REALLY? People are actually talking about the fist pump? THAT’S what is being talked about??
For crying out loud, there’s plenty to discuss with this team, the fist pump and the HBP are not it.
This is why Sports Radio sucks balls.
He always has something to whine about with Joba. I really wonder does he like him. Whatever Joba does or say he nitpicks at it:
-The fist pump
)
-Driving drunk
-He acts immature (um he’s 23
-Why does he have a towel over his head
-Needs to grow up
-Whined about him saying he loves Yogi
The fist pump while losing and throwing at Bay with men on base and a depleted bullpen is ridiculous.
Joba is an extraordinary talent, but it seems he has a million dollar arm with a two cent head.
There should be a disclaimer on every sports radio show in the country:
“If you listen too much to this show, it is hazardous to your health.
Symptoms include, bleeding ears, a pounding headache, and further symptoms could lead to mental illness”.
If every sports radio talk show in the country had that disclaimer, everybody would be better for it.
Pat M
May 6th, 2009 at 2:04 pm
GB7, That’s the Pat Kelly I was refering to.The Yanks Pat Kelly was a 2nd baseman who always injured….I think he came up in the late 80’s and was replaced by Steve Sax…..I sometimes confuse his arrival time with Randy Verlarde ( roids )when he played with Oakland
————————————————————
Yeah, if I remember correctly, Leroy’s brother Pat used to torture the Yankees on occassion, but, especially, the Red Sox.
If the Yankees had been able to score 2 freakin’ more runs, while Joba was in there, and they had the opportunities to do so, and then again afterward, then Joba’s on the winning side of the page.
He allowed 4, but he then stopped the Red Sox offense dead in its tracks. Dead. And I think that should be celebrated. Because sooner rather than later, Joba IS going to be “on” from the first pitch.
Frankly, after the 3 runs were scored on Damons HR, I looked at this game like it was 1-0 Red Sox. It was a whole new game. Too bad the offense and bullpen didn’t see it that way.
There are far more things to complain about than Joba being pumped. Sheesh.
IM fine with the fist pump until i hear someone complain that papelbon does the same thing for doing much less.
who cares if he pumps his fist?
at least he is showing some emotion. everyone else on the team with maybe the exception of Swisher, looks like they’re at a funeral.
You people whining about the fist pump are just as insane as Francessa. Leave the kid alone. Anywhere else in MLB he is celebrated. If he was in Boston, he would be the best pitcher of all time. Because he wears the Ny he is so very over scrutinized it is not fair. Trade him now and get what you can for him, because the ridiculous expectations that have been put on top of this kid are unfair, and he is never going to live up to what you guys think of him.
“The guy pitched great last night, save for one bad inning.”
You can’t discount the inning though.
As I said earlier, if each inning were a class on a report card, he got 4 A’s and an F. That gives him a B for the night. And that ignores that he needed 110 pitches to retire 17 batters. Those 4+ innings were as good as he’s pitched as a Yankee, IMO. Simply brilliant. Still, your starter gives up 4 in the 1st and then needs 10 outs from the bullpen, then it’s not a great night for him.
Baseball Fab, you’re a million dollar arm asn a penny away from being Joba
Its me.
He wasn’t throwing at Bay. The target was set outside and he overthrew a two seamer.
Really, that crap doesn’t sell on this blog.
You have to learn about the game and unfortunately, you won’t learn that listening to people like Mike Francesa or the uninformed boobs at ESPN.
There is no doubt the threw at Youkilis last year.
Bay last night? No way was that a purpose pitch. The game, and the situation, didn’t call for it.
If Joba shows any emotion people are upset. If he doesn’t, people are upset.
People sure do get upset a lot
Any reason Venditte’s still in Low-A? Give him stiffer competition in High A or AA.
Someone Else
May 6th, 2009 at 2:16 pm
Any reason Venditte’s still in Low-A? Give him stiffer competition in High A or AA.
————————————————————
Yeah, because he was just drafted this past June.
I have no problem with Joba showing emotion. But do it at the appropiate time.
His team was losing. He put them in the hole. 12 K’s ? Yeah it’s great but put some perspective on the bigger picture.
Do you celebrate HR’s after going 0-4 and your team is losing?
“The fist pump while losing and throwing at Bay with men on base and a depleted bullpen is ridiculous.”
Oh cry me a river for poor Jason Bay, but the guy has been killing the Yankees all season and it is old-school baseball to try and make him a little less comfortable at the plate. I somehow fail to see how this is “ridiculous” especially considering it’s part of Joba’s style to pitch inside and intimidate. The fist pump has been discussed ad nauseam but another thing to consider is how it seemed like Joba got really frustrated in that inning, right before plunking Bay because he had Ortiz down in the count 1-2 and threw him a few borderline pitches but failed to put him away and ended up walking him.
I immediately saw the Bay plunking, as well as the fist pump, more as Joba’s frustration with that inning coming to a head. He had mowed down Pedroia (on a pitch out of the zone but whatever) and Van Every before that, but then lost Ortiz and then had to deal with Bay and Lowell.
For those people who are stressing over losing to BOS yet again, the Yankees have 13 chances left to win the season series against them. Win those games and the 5 we lost will be long forgotten.
“The fist pump while losing and throwing at Bay with men on base and a depleted bullpen is ridiculous”
I’d imagine Teixeira, Arod, or somebody will be on the business end of a retaliatory pitch when they meet up in June. Francona probably did the smart thing putting off retaliating with a one run lead last night.
“MikeyC
May 6th, 2009 at 2:02 pm
My cousin said Kazmir is hurting his fantasy team. Hes sucked his last three starts. Garza and Shields are the only ones that have been productive
”
Yeah Kazmir has been inconsistent for them despite the talent he has, the rumor around town is that he is a huge partier and has a problem w/ the hippie lettuce.
I like the matchups for this series, Burnette owned them a few weeks ago and Pettite seems to keep their baserunners in check, Yanks need these 2 games or the sky will keep falling
“Any reason Venditte’s still in Low-A? Give him stiffer competition in High A or AA.
——————————————————————————————
Yeah, because he was just drafted this past June.”
Also, there has to be thinking within the organization that his development will take longer than the normal pitcher. Maybe not twice as long, but he’ll have to master his mechanics twice, and develop his pitches for each hand. I’d be thrilled if he is in the Bronx by late 2012.
“He wasn’t throwing at Bay. The target was set outside and he overthrew a two seamer.”
SJ:
C’mon! That was intentional. He hadn’t missed his spot at all after the 1st inning. He hit him on purpose.
“Who cares if he pumps his fist. Baseball is the only game in the world where you get chastised for showing emotion.”
you’ve never seen a football player get flagged for celebrating after a touchdown?? you’ve never seen a basketball player get a technical foul??
Scranton game was rained out. Prepare for a long night. Either another all nighter or to be over run by more idiots.
Steve,
Every starting pitcher has one bad inning per start. Its how you minimize damage. He dominated that game after the first inning.
He gave the Yankees PLENTY of opportunities to win the game. They, as is their custom, didn’t come through with a clutch hit.
He pitches like that the rest of the year, he won’t have first innings like he did last night.
Its all part of the learning process for a 23 year old starting pitcher.
He’s not yet a finished product.
Anybody, and I mean ANYBODY, who is ripping this kid from the media side of this doesn’t know a damn thing about baseball.
I’ve had 4 baseball people call me today, friends of mine in the game. A GM, 2 scouting directors and a scout.
All of whom have been on the, “Joba should be in the bullpen” side of the debate.
EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM said to me today, “Now I see why they want him in the rotation”. Every one, and they said it with complete conviction.
Four different baseball people from four different organization changed their minds off what they saw last night.
You know why? Because what they saw was special. If baseball people can see it and change their minds, so can less informed people in the media.
If this team was more of a finished product, and Joba was at his innings limit, the bullpen conversation is out there.
But, they aren’t a finished product. Truth be told, for various reasons, they aren’t even a good team right now.
With what he showed last night, its tough to see him as anything but a starting pitcher. Unfortunately, its a development process and there will be ups and downs. That’s just the way it goes.
I don’t rip fans in the debate. They don’t know better.
Members of the media should and be better informed on these things and do a better job of communciating the variety of issues to the fans.
Joba showed a fire last night that I haven’t seen since he went to the rotation. Although we didn’t win, I liked Joba’s start.
It seems to me the Yankees had a pitcher retire last year that had his share of first inning problems. Mussina had many games when he had trouble in the first inning and I doubt that Francessa went on a rant about that.
I agree with Doreen that if the offense had done their job the outcome could have been differant.
In Search of O’Neill -
I didn’t post anything to do with “Joba dance.” I don’t even see it anywhere, so unless Pete deleted a post I didn’t see, I don’t know what you’re referring to.
Everything else here is me.
In response to last thread. I don’t think it’s a rationalization to say I can appreciate individual performances even if the team loses. I prefer the team to win. They’re not gonna win every day.
In the case of Joba, he is a developing starter. Any pluses are welcome, even if the outcome was not favorable to the team. In the long run, his pluses WILL benefit the team. Also, as I said before, if his team could score or make plays in the field at crucial points in the game (and every freakin’ game seems to be crucial), he’d have been on the winning side of the ledger.
I think there are some fans out there that need instant gratification and don’t understand the nature of baseball is failure. Lots of it. It’s a patient game and you have to grind it out and wait it out.
I want the Yankees to fix what is wrong as much as the next guy. I just don’t see the point of not cheering for the things that go right while they do that.
Re: Girardi.
How many teams currently over .500 are going it with less talent?
If we are not going to hold the manager accountable for his team, almost across the board, so consistently under performing, then what on earth will he ever be held accountable for????
Steve,
You don’t throw at a guy in a one run game when you are up against your pitch count.
No, he wasn’t throwing at him. He was looking to get through the sixth inning in as few pitches as possible so he would have a shot at the 7th inning.
That’s not the time to throw at somebody and he isn’t dumb enough to do it in that situation.
I’m guessing we have the impersonator back, with a new IP address no doubt, using O’Neill’s name looking to start trouble again.
I was just looking at Pat Venditte’s stats at Charleston (low-A). For those that don’t remember, he is the switch-pitcher the Yanks drafted last year.
Anyways, his stats are insane. He’s pitched 11.2 innings, has given up 7 hits, *0 ER, 0 BB, and 21 K’s*.
It’s just A ball but still really impressive. I hope he makes the big leagues one day so I can see him pitch.
vin
May 6th, 2009 at 2:23 pm
“Any reason Venditte’s still in Low-A? Give him stiffer competition in High A or AA.
——————————————————————————————
Yeah, because he was just drafted this past June.”
Also, there has to be thinking within the organization that his development will take longer than the normal pitcher. Maybe not twice as long, but he’ll have to master his mechanics twice, and develop his pitches for each hand. I’d be thrilled if he is in the Bronx by late 2012.
————————————————————
Possibly, but, they also have another closer in Tampa in Jonathan Ortiz. If injuries/promotions happen in the system, he could move up to Tampa. Will he ever be anything more than a curiosity? Hard to say. He’s saved 30-31 chances and this tear’s loss and blown save was on 2 errors. He’s allowed 7 runs (3 earned), 20 hits in 45 innings of pro ball with 10 walks and 63 strikeouts..
“Scranton game was rained out. Prepare for a long night. Either another all nighter or to be over run by more idiots.”
I’m sure we will be overrun by idiots anyway, but Scranton was rained out at Indianapolis today – not at Scranton. The weather looks ok for tonight until late (and since this isn’t a Red Sox game, maybe it can be played in under 4 hours).
By the way, all the complaints about Joba are silly. He is at his best when he’s overflowing with emotion. I don’t mind the fist pump at all.
I think it can sometimes work against him, like last night when he was turning his back on the ump and constantly asking the 1B ump for a check swing call. My guess is the umpires weren’t too happy about that.
However, when Joba gets like that he is basically unhittable. Did you see Mike Lowell (his 10th K)? He was hopeless in that at-bat.
And In Search of O’Neill -
Should true Yankees fans not have cheered Damon’s homerun last night? After all, it was 4-0 and it was only a 3-run homerun so they were still losing.
Old=time Yankees fans must have been a real thrill to be around if they only cheered if the Yankees were winning. Especially in the lean years.
We’ll have to agree to disagree on the Bay thing, SJ.
I think he did throw at him on purpose. In part due to the homer and in part due to some frustration over not getting strike calls to Ortiz in the prior at bat.
I’ve got a question about Joba’s pitches.
His stuff is really starting to come together and it looks like Girardi was right about him taking a bit longer to have all his pitches working.
My question is about his slider. When he first came up, he pretty much had 2 sliders. He had that tight slider he would throw for strikes and then he had the one that dove completely out of the strike zone that made hitters look stupid. It seems like he really hasn’t been throwing his slider out of the zone. Am I wrong about this? Is he not throwing it because hitters have learned to lay off of it because of how nasty it is?
Well, let’s be serious about the “talent” that’s here right now.
They are missing: Their best player (and probably the best all around player in the game), their second best starter, their starting RF, their 2 top setup men, and now their starting C.
As Pete and Tyler Kepner broke down last night, they probably have close to 40% of the roster that shouldn’t even be here.
So the “talent” issue is a bit overblown.
That said, they have to play better. If they don’t, he’s not going to be employed for long.
It would help though if the GM gave him a more flexible roster.
Sending up Brett Gardner to pinch hit, while keeping 13 pitchers, most of whom can’t pitch, doesn’t help the manager.
He can only play the guys that are on the roster.
If the roster is short, that’s on the GM, not the manager.
“You don’t throw at a guy in a one run game when you are up against your pitch count.”
——-
Joba has said the hitter who gives him the most trouble is “Mike Lowell”.
So he hits a guy on purpose, in a one-run game, to put 2 men on, to face his toughest out?
ok…
Bronx Jeers,
“I have no problem with Joba showing emotion. But do it at the appropiate time.”
What exactly is the appropriate time?
Perhaps he was trying to fire up his team…no one is refuting the fact that he is the reason they were down 4-0. But he settled in after, got three runs from his offense before they failed to produce a run with men on 2nd and 3rd and one out with the heart of the order at the plate. That right there is the real joke.
Wow good to hear about Venditte. Hopefully he can someday bring that pitching and unique style to AA or AAA.
the joba i want to see is the one who attacks the strike zone, not nibbling on the corners trying to get the call.
if the joba we saw last night after the first inning wants to pump his fists, then why should anyone(espcially yankee fans) give a damn?
And I really don’t think he threw at Bay on purpose. He’s admitted that Lowell is the toughest hitter he has faced, why put 2 on to face him when the Yankees are within 1 run of tying the game?
SJ44
I think people have decided Joba neede to be in the BP without realizing how talented he is and the number of quality pitches he has. Like you said last night went a long way of changing peoples minds.
One thing that isn’t getting much mention is how he regrouped after the first inning.
I had to listen to NESN last night and Eckersly was on there. At the beginning of the game he was kinda mocking Joba as a starter saying he didn’t have enough pitches.
As the game went on you could here his tone change an d would say where did he get that pitch. By the time Joba left the game he sounded very impressed with what Joba had shown.
Largo
May 6th, 2009 at 2:31 pm
“Scranton game was rained out. Prepare for a long night. Either another all nighter or to be over run by more idiots.”
I’m sure we will be overrun by idiots anyway, but Scranton was rained out at Indianapolis today – not at Scranton. The weather looks ok for tonight until late (and since this isn’t a Red Sox game, maybe it can be played in under 4 hours).
————————————————————
Ooops. I’ll just make a fast recovery then and say that Indianapolis is a suburb of Scranton.
Joba gave up 4 runs in the first inning. The Yanks lost the game. I don’t care how many he struck out. Yes, the team isn’t hitting and the bullpen stinks. But his fist pumping is not appropriate. What is he celebrating? That he gave up 4 runs and put his team in the hole.
I’m waiting to see K-Rod or Paplebon fist pump when they blow a save and then strike out the side.
At least their celebrations take place when the game is over.
Well, we have one of the idiots in here right now.
This is the same clown who got banned earlier for impersonating some of the regulars here.
Now, he hijacked In Search of O’Neill’s name and is doing the same thing.
No. 27,
Advanced scouts noticed Joba hasn’t been throwing his slider for strikes. They told their hitters that if they can recognize the slider, lay off of it because it will be a ball.
They were right about that…..until last night.
When he throws that pitch for strikes, he’s unhittable.
I think the difference in Joba in his last two starts is, the slider is now being thrown for strikes. That sets up his other pitches.
That’s why his changeup was so effective last night.
Its also why so many guys struck out looking. They took a lot of sliders, curveballs and change ups for strikes last night and that set up his entire night after the first inning.
no. 27,
Pete mentioned last night how word around the league was that Joba couldn’t throw his slider for strikes, so the advanced scouts have advised hitters to disregard it. That could be why he hasn’t been bouncing that pitch lately, that used to be so effective.
SJ, the team shouldn’t have to score 5 runs a game – that’s asking for a lot. You also can’t take the one inning out, though he did obviously keep the team in the game. Let’s be fair – if this was any pitcher other than Joba, would we have been happy with his performance? No, we’d be furious that the pitcher put us behind the 8 ball right away.
No. 27:
Read somewhere he was not using that pitch as much because hitters were laying off of it. Looked like his change up was particularly good last night. Left it a little higher than you might like, but he disguised it well enough that hitters were still way out in front.
“Wow good to hear about Venditte. Hopefully he can someday bring that pitching and unique style to AA or AAA.”
He’s an older guy so I’d expect him to move quickly through the minors. However, his stuff isn’t all that special from either side. Also it will take longer for him to fine tune his mechanics considering he is throwing from both sides.
From the right side Venditte throws a high 80′s fastball with a really nice curve. From the left he throws high 70′s with a crappy slider.
With that kind of stuff I don’t really see him being a major leaguer but I’d love to see him make it.
SJ44,
I guess great minds do think alike!
Re: the fist pump –
Consider that yesterday, the two more prominent baseball online news sources (ESPN and Yahoo) both had a top headline on Joba’s mother.
If I was Joba, I would be emotional.
How can we criticize without knowing what makes him tick? The kid’s been through alot. Let him roar.
On a related note, I’m getting tired of the cross-pollenation of Boston-based writers on these mainstream outlets. How the heck does Gordon Edes get away with writing a baseball column on Yahoo? All he’s done since his column started is rip the Yanks and their ballpark…what a surprise.
Trever, driving drunk deserves a “nit pick”…….
GB, thanks for the info. Hmm, I’m not as up on Pat Kelly as I thought, lol
To blame the loss just on Joba because of the 1st inning is ridulious. So he gave up 4 runs in the 1st inning. Is it too much to ask this lineup to score more then 3 runs in a game?!! Or even string some good at bats and hits together. If Pena could hit a ground ball or if this team actually had a pinch hitter to use in the 6th inning the game could of been tied. So far this season when the teams scores more then 5 runs they give up 10 so its a loss anyway. If the pitcher gives up 4 or 5 runs they only score 2 or 3 runs. Also does anyone know when the 1st baseman the Yanks signed is arriving? I believe his name is Teixeira….
Yeah it’s insane on every level to put Joba in the bullpen. Last night was a perfect example. He was getting swings and misses as well as called strikes for 5 different pitches. Fastball, slider, curve, change-up, 2-seam
Joba still has a long way to go but we can all see the potential. He is an ace in the making.
“Ooops. I’ll just make a fast recovery then and say that Indianapolis is a suburb of Scranton.”
That would be one heck of a daily commute.
Re: SJ44
Regarding the talent here… anybody can list the guys gone…
But look at what they still HAVE…
Would you trade this 25 for KC’s??? For Texas’??? For Toronto’s??? For Seattle’s????
How about all the guys BOSTON is missing??? They just drilled the Yankees with Van Every in center, Bailey at First, Green at SS, No Dice K, Beckett with an over 7 ERA, and an Ortiz that is a shadow of what he used to be…
Somehow, THEY keep winning.
This idea that Girardi is somehow playing with a short stick is LAUGHABLE!
Not sure why the sudden release of emotion by Chamberlain last night. Did Eiland tell him to just cut it loose and let him be himself? Did the sudden burst come because of the pent up emotions with his mother’s situation? who knows? Nobody seems to condemn Palebon, Vervalde, Pedroia and others. Nobody says much about a home being hit when the team is up or down by 10 runs and the guy is running up and down the dugout slapping hands with anything breathing.
Did anyone who calls into WFAN root for the Yankees before 1996?
When I think of great Yankees, Paul O’Neill is not top 10 on my list but he must be top 2 on some peoples.
Is “They need a warrior like Paul O’Neill” the mantra for post 1996 Yankee fans?
“but the fist pumping is not appropriate. What is he celebrating?”
***Valverde***
“Its also why so many guys struck out looking. They took a lot of sliders, curveballs and change ups for strikes last night and that set up his entire night after the first inning.”
——
ding ding ding….
If Joba can repeat those pitches in the future, the scouting report will change to “close your eyes, let it rip, and hope you hit something”
Im doing a little experiment this week. I am turning Mike Francessa’s radio show on for no more than five mins each day to hear whether he is talking about the yanks and whether it is in a positive or negative light. So far, I have turned his show on for four consecutive days now and within the first minute of each listen, he was bashing some aspect of the yankees organization. He has also belittled and disrespected at least one call each day even when they had a completely valid point. I am going to the pretty obvious conclusion that Mike Francessa is no longer a yankees fan in any capacity. He doesnt seem to like the team even when someone does well.
Today, he was ridiculing Michael and his supporting cast for praising joba’s performance and making him the player of the game because he didnt get the win. So I guess a redsox player should have been the player of the game on YES. And how often does a player ever show the kind of absolute dominance over a very good hitting lineup that joba did after the first inning? It is extremely rare. He struck out 2 or 3 batters in I think every single inning after the first and the wide majority of the strikes were either looking or no contact at all. The sox looked completely lost after the first and that was the best pitching the yanks had all year including AJ’s no-hit bid. Yet, Mike spends god knows how long ridiculing anyone who praised that? Are you kidding me?
ESPN spent an entire game’s broadcast taking about how good pedroia is and he didnt even do much in the game. How if that fine on ESPN but this talk is nonsense on YES? There are very few things the yanks have done right lately and joba’s pitching yesterday was definitely one of those things. Lets see what stupidity mike has in store for me tomorrow in my next five minute segment. I really think mike stopped being a yankee fan the day bernie left. He is in love with bernie. Mike should just admit it already – im tired of the deceit. Either root for the yanks or dont but dont pretend you are a yankee fan and then, spend every waking moment hating on them please.
SJ –
Problem with Joba was..earlier he was too careful. He got behind too many batters and was at 90 pitches by the 5th inning.
He needs to be that guy he was in the 4th and 5th last night – aggressive.
Is it fair to expect more length from Joba at this point in his career? I know he was outstanding last night, but the pitch count earlier…not so much.
Betsy,
If it was a veteran pitcher, yeah. I think you’d be harder on Pettitte, CC or AJ. Maybe. But if they did what Joba did after the first inning, and all things being equal, I do think people would say they bounced back and gave the team a chance to win.
But Joba is still a puppy.
He didn’t set the game up well at all. But he did shut the other team down after that inning. Why is that not important?
And Beckett’s had his problems so it was reasonable to think 5 runs could be scored. 3 were, and 2 easily could have been with a hit at the right time. In fact, if Melky’s ground rule double didn’t hop over the fence, the game is tied.
Betsy
May 6th, 2009 at 2:40 pm
Trever, driving drunk deserves a “nit pick”…….
GB, thanks for the info. Hmm, I’m not as up on Pat Kelly as I thought, lol
————————————————————
It’s difficult to keep up with all of the Kellys. All they ever seem to do is drink at the pubs and make kids.
“How about all the guys BOSTON is missing???…
Somehow, THEY keep winning.”
———-
Sure and they have to be pleased with their record. But they are beatable and if the Yankees can improve more than the Sox can, they’re going to win the division.
Both teams have room for improvement, the Yankees have quite a bit.
He’s trying to fire up a dead team. There is nothing wrong with that. They needed SOMEBODY to show some life. I’m glad it was him.
If they spent all this money on this team and it can’t score 5 runs a game, its the Pirates and not the Yankees.
He actually fired the team up with his peformance last night.
Instead of crediting him for that, he gets ripped.
That’s why some Yankee fans are dumb as rocks.
Its the same fans that boo Teixeira and will boo Arod when he comes back if he isn’t 9-10 with 5 HR’s in his first 3 games back in action.
Maine Yankee,
When I have talked recently about Joba going back to the bullpen, it was in the context of both him not being a dominant starting pitcher AND Wang and Hughes being up to form.
After you see what he did last night, its pretty clear the talent is there to be a dominant starting pitcher. Can’t move guys who can be this good from that role.
YES had an interesting stat last night.
Since Joba went into the rotation last year, he has made 17 starts.
Only FIVE other starting pitchers have ERA’s better than Joba since he has gone in the rotation.
That’s 5 other starters in ALL of MLB.
In other words, at least right now, Joba Chamberlain is the best starting pitcher on this team.
Pretty amazing if you ask me.
Venditte has real potential beyond the sideshow. Of course, he has a few hurdles to climb before we know for sure if he has the talent to be a successful big-leaguer.
As for Joba, sometimes people tend to forget an important thing: He is still developing. Developing pitchers make mistakes. Developing pitchers need to learn to get out of the first inning when they don’t yet have their stuff. They always say that the best time to get to a power pitcher is early, because once they find it, you may never get another shot. And that’s what happened last night. Joba just couldn’t completely minimize the damage….but he will learn with experience how he can minimize the damage…whether it be by temporarily changing his pattern, or whatever else.
It’s really not the Yankees’ fault that the hype machine around these young pitchers was so huge. Part of it is because they are the Yankees…but if people would just let these guys breathe, we are likely going to get some very good results. I expect a solid year out of Joba – I don’t expect Pedro Martinez, though. I expect Hughes to have a nice year when the Yankees use him..but I don’t expect him to be Mike Mussina. This stuff just does not happen overnight – very few pitchers come in and have it all figured out the moment they arrive. Joba is pretty much as close to that type of guy as you are going to find…but there’s still stuff to learn.
That’s what I figured was happening. When he first came up it seemed like that was the pitch he was getting all his swing and misses on. I guess as scouts start telling hitters to look out for his tighter slider he’ll be able to work that strikeout pitch in a little bit more.
Either way, the development of his changeup and curveball looks like its really starting to show. The strike zone was a little wide last night, but all those backwards K’s make me think he’s really got hitters confused now that he’s mixing all 4 pitches in.
“but the fist pumping is not appropriate. What is he celebrating?”
Which poster said this?
5.2 innings is 5.2 innings.. that’s not good.. and 12K’s who cares? Not counting the 1st he threw 83 pitches.. 83 pitches to get 14 outs is a joke.. I don’t care how those outs are made.. that’s an average of almost 6 pitchers per AB. That can’t happen for a starter.. A reliever.. Well that’s something else.
“When I have talked recently about Joba going back to the bullpen, it was in the context of both him not being a dominant starting pitcher AND Wang and Hughes being up to form.
After you see what he did last night, its pretty clear the talent is there to be a dominant starting pitcher. ”
——–
Glad you’re “back” SJ44
“He (joba) is trying to fire up a dead team.”
Assuming that’s true, how on EARTH do we not hold Joe Girardi accountable for this being “a dead team”????
6 pitchers = 6 pitches
I don’t think that Joba was necessarily throwing at Bay, but let me just say, I’m glad he hit him. That guy has pwned the Yankees in the 5 games.
“Venditte has real potential beyond the sideshow.”
——–
I’ll believe it when he succeeds at higher levels but is there a guy you’d want to root for more than him to make it?
I hope he is the exception. He’d be fun to watch.
One more question – if the Yankees are missing all that talent (which they are), then why are our expectations still the same as when they had that talent? We keep hearing about no excuses – if we’re not going to allow for excuses, then there is no point in mentioning the fact that they are missing most of the best part of their roster. Either you accept the reduced level of play based on the injuries or you don’t accept it and don’t even bring injuries into play.
I was more impressed with his 7 inning start where we WON the game and he actually went deep.. who cares about 83 pitches for 14 outs?
BETSY:
Between Texas, Seattle, Toronto and Kansas City, which of those teams currently has a better 25 than the Yankees have??? … Because they ALL have better records.
BETSY:
Between Texas, Seattle, Toronto and Kansas City, which of those teams currently has a better 25 than the Yankees have??? … Because they ALL have better records.
I was really impressed with his change-up. That’s a pitch that I really haven’t seen him throw. Wonder has he been talking to CC about change-up grips and how to throw it.
It’s not really an easy pitch to throw. You have to have the right follow through and not hold it too long.
It must be great to have 4 above average pitches that you can could command. Lots of $$ in Joba’s future.
“I don’t think that Joba was necessarily throwing at Bay, but let me just say, I’m glad he hit him. That guy has pwned the Yankees in the 5 games.”
——-
Look at the pitches Bay hit. Fastballs over the middle.
You have to get ahead in the count on Bay and then get him to miss at an offspeed pitch.
The Yankees have been missing their spots and forced to throw him mistake pitches.
I agree, E-gawa.
Not enough length last night.
Flashes of serious brilliance, but not enough length.
Betsy,
The Orioles average 5 runs a game.
You mean to tell me a team that has this many good offensive players being asked “a lot” to score 5 runs a game?
Sorry but, that’s insane.
I think anybody who pitched like Joba did last night and wasn’t named Joba WOULD be the story of the day today in baseball.
Instead, the story is about ripping the kid and still talking about how he “fist pumps too much”, “belongs in the bullpen”, and “cost us (do some of you play for the Yankees??) the game”?
All 3 premises are off base given his performance last night.
BTW, ignore “In Search of O’Neill”.
Its an impersonator, the one who got banned earlier for impersonating others, and has taken up with a new IP address and a new regulars name.
SJ – Better than that. He is one of the top 3 starters in the AL. I believe four of the five (or something like that) pitchers who had better ERAs were in the NL.
For some absurd reason I feel pretty good about this team. I know they look pathetic now, but some of that is Boston has gotten in their heads.
CC should at some point become CC.
AJ can be dominant.
Joba – last night proves he IS THAT GOOD. He will have some stinkers and is not done learning but he is potential # 1.
Hughes – I hope we get the Detroit Hughes. Even against the Red Sox his velocity was up and his curve was nasty. The cutter gives him that added pitch. Can he bring the change up to average to show 3-5 times a game?
Pettite – Will be steady.
Damon, Jeter, Tex, Arod, Matsui, Swisher, Cano, Molina, Cabrera (hopefully this Melky is here to stay) – if they can’t score runs there is no hope. Runs have been scored, but they need to be much more clutch.
The bullpen needs health and length from the starters. But, Mo, Bruney, Marte, Coke, Melancon, Robertson, Aceves should do the trick.
No one has run away and hid yet. Toronto will not be a playoff team. The central should beat up amongst themselves. The west is simply not that good. And, Tampa is still behind the Yankees.
I have said this for a while – watch TAMPA. They are the key. In my opinion the Sox make the playoffs. The only competition for the 4th playoff spot (west, and central not included) is Tampa and the Yankees.
SJ44
I know that was what you was talking about. My point is as others outside the Yankees see the potential he has they are changing their mind.
“Joba has said the hitter who gives him the most trouble is “Mike Lowell”.
So he hits a guy on purpose, in a one-run game, to put 2 men on, to face his toughest out?
ok…”
boston dave-
that’s how confident joba is. there were two outs. bay has been cheating in ,covering the whole plate.
joba just let him know for the whole team that he gets one side , but not both unless he wants to pay a price.
it doesn’t bother me one bit that he did it on purpose. it was in a nice safe zone.
the red sox have a right to retaliate in kind.
they just need to make sure it’s to a nice safe spot too.
whoever gets hit should make no big deal about it and go to first like bay did.
it’s just the game within the game.
i guarantee bay doesn’t keep hitting the way he has been against the yankees.
Doreen, I think if AJ or CC gave us 4 runs in 5 2/3 innings, people would be all over them. You’re right, he’s a kid and going to have his ups and downs, so he shouldn’t be treated the same as vets. Still, I would say he deserves praise for settling in and holding the Sox down – that’s about it for me except to say that it was great seeing that kind of stuff from him because he should be a top-level pitcher.
If he fired up the team, how come it took so long for the Yankees to score runs (on HRs)?
“What exactly is the appropriate time?”
When your team is not losing its 5th straight to it’s divison rival?
Yeah, his 4 2/3 were great but you can’t spot the Sox 4 runs in the first inning. Beckett, as bad as he’s been, will win that game more often than not. Joba himself wasn’t so thrilled in his postgame.
I mean as fans were allowed to rationalize and make excuses and there’s no harm.
I hope the team isn’t doing the same though.
Yanks ‘N More
The Sox vave played 27 games so far.
Pos Player Starts
C. Varitek 20
1B. Youkilis 24 plus 1 at 3B
2B. Pedroia 27
3B. Lowell 26
SS. Green 18
LF. Bay 27
CF. Ellsbury 26
RF. Drew 22
DH. Ortiz 27
Now who are they missing?
““When I have talked recently about Joba going back to the bullpen, it was in the context of both him not being a dominant starting pitcher AND Wang and Hughes being up to form.
After you see what he did last night, its pretty clear the talent is there to be a dominant starting pitcher. ””
There’s nothing wrong with changing your opinion when the facts call for it. I’d much prefer to read people who change their opinions to fit the facts rather than twist or ignore the facts to fit their opinions.
Dice-K and Lowrie!
“He actually fired the team up with his peformance last night.”
Did he? How exactly did that manifest itself?
He fired up the fandom to be sure, but I didn’t see anything in his teammates that said anything close to fired up.
“i guarantee bay doesn’t keep hitting the way he has been against the yankees.”
——-
if they can locate their offspeed pitches, yes.
I don’t have a problem with hitting Bay on principle. I just don’t see how it makes sense in that instance. I guess only Joba knows.
I’m worried about this team.
Biggest reason is, they play so tight it affects everything they do.
Thing is, I don’t know how you can change it.
Its a good clubhouse. Good guys and Girardi is MILES better than he was last year.
This team also played tight the last 3-4 years under Torre so, its not the manager.
I think guys come here and want to do so well, they just play too tight.
Its tough to put a finger on. But, you do notice it.
Boston plays LOOSE. They play with confidence, swagger and are relaxed.
You can’t play baseball wound up tight as a drum. Its not how the game is played.
Its not a coincidence the three best performers on the team with RISP are Damon, Jeter and Swisher. They are the three loosest guys on the team.
How to change it? Ah, that’s the 210,000,000 question.
Boston changed it. Guys used to HATE playing Boston. Now? They are taking less money to stay there.
They still hate the fishbowl with the media.
But, in the clubhouse and between the white lines, its a very confident and relaxed team.
Somehow, the Yankees have to get to that point. If they do, they will be better.
Once they get some of the injured back, they have a shot to be very good.
However, to get to that point, they have to play through this stuff and somehow, someway, find a way to be relaxed and have some fun.
SJ, what do the best offensive teams (Sox, O’s, Tigers, Jays, Phillies) average as to runs scored? I honestly don’t know…….
You’ve also said before the Yankees have several black holes in their lineup – those guys come up to the plate a lot with RISP and that doesn’t help any.
I honestly have no idea if Joba would be the story if his name wasn’t Joba…….what would the headline of the story be? The he struck out 12 in a loss to the Sox? I’m not trying to be difficult – I really don’t know what the story would be. IMO, the story would be the Sox dominating the Yankees again.
You didn’t? They scored 3 runs right off the bat, after he got on his roll and got back in the game.
They had scoring threats throughout the game. They just didn’t get the big hit.
Its not his fault the bullpen couldn’t hold up their end of the bargain.
Its a 4-3 game into the 7th. That’s not on the starting pitcher. Not in today’s baseball.
That’s up to the offense and bullpen to do its job. Unfortunately, that didn’t happen last night.
When pitchers hit a batter it isn’t always about the game they are playing but sending a message for future games.
I think randy would know something about that .
sj44-
i liked joba’s intensity too. i like it because he can back it up. when the red sox say he’s going to get someone hurt that’s their business.
ever since varitek got in arod’s face. the red sox have perceived that they are the tough guys.
guess what, there’s a new sheriff in town. they are going to hate joba like we hated pedro, but so what.
joba is standing up to the red sox perception that they can literally kick the yankees ass.
no more rolling over to their macho image of themselves.
if they want to wake up the yankees,be my guest.
that would not be a bad thing.
Betsy,
Good offensive teams average 5-5.6 runs a game. Great offensive teams average close to 6 runs a game.
They have to hit better with RISP. No doubt about that.
They also have to change their bench and get more help in there. Especially with Posada down right now.
You can’t have Francisco Cervelli, Angel Berroa and Brett Gardner as your PH “threats”.
It was PAINFUL for me to write the above paragraph, given the options Girardi has on that bench.
Well, there’s no doubt that the biggest culprits were the hitting with RISP and the pen – they could never get over the hump. I don’t want to hear about bad luck with ground rule doubles – those happen all the time, to all teams.
There’s nothing that can be done about the hitting with RISP – and as long as they have black holes in the lineup who come up with RISP, it’s going to continue to suck. I also don’t see what else can be done with the pen – at this point, I think you just have to survive day to day. The Yankees are in a very, very bad position. I also think the Jays are for real.
Yankees U:
Last night they were missing Youkilis, their top TWO shortstops, and Ellsbury for most of the game… And they have been living with a broke down David Ortiz all yearlong.
Now you tell me: Of Texas, Seattle, Toronto and Kansas City, which of those teams has a better 25 than the Yankees have RIGHT NOW, even with the injuries…
Because they ALL have better records.
randy
I think Girardi also seems to have that fire as to not let teams intimidate them.
I don’t usually waste brain cells with information about unimportant games gone by, so forgive me if I’m foggy on details.
But wasn’t there a very recent game where the Yankees scored a bunch of runs in the 1st inning, and then the starting pitcher SHUT THEM DOWN the rest of the way, and wasn’t this treated as a good thing for that other pitcher to do? Now, the other team, I believe, came back to win or take the lead. So the outcome may have been different. But Joba did the same thing.
Another instance of if another team does it it’s great, if a Yankee does it, not so much.
If I find the exact game and circumstances, I’ll fill in the blanks. It wasn’t that long ago.
)
(I don’t retain anything past about 10 days – j/k –
SJ44
Joba fired up his team? They were so fired up they lost. He only fired up the fans.
If you watched the post game Girardi was not singing Joba’s praises.
When Joba pitches a game like Zack Greinke he can fist pump all he wants.
Randy,
Exactly. He has SWAGGER. Not many guys on the team have swagger.
Johnny Damon has it. Jeter has it. Mariano has it and Joba has it.
There are guys (Arod) who ACT like they have swagger. But, they aren’t tough enough mentally to maintain their swagger when the going gets tough.
Joba has “it”. He really does. He is the new sheriff in town.
He just needs more guys to follow his lead.
Rose,
When Zack Greinke was Joba’s age, he was in a mental institution. Joba is the best pitcher in the rotation right now.
If fist pumps jack him up, so be it.
You don’t like his fist pumps? Go follow the Royals.
SJ, I can’t disagree. If Cash doesn’t get a catcher and improve the bench, I’d have to say that he would deserve it if he got fired- and I’m a huge supporter of his. He has to put this team in the best position to win, just like Joe – he has to adapt to the reality of the situation and the reality is that this team is hobbled by injuries and needs help..quick.
“I don’t have a problem with hitting Bay on principle. I just don’t see how it makes sense in that instance. I guess only Joba knows.”
boston dave-
you’re right it didn’t make total sense in that situation so it was a very good cover.
but that was as intentional as it gets and a thing of beauty
so are you heading down highway 1 at some point. santa cruz to santa barbara ?
that’s got to be one of the best drives in the country.
Yesterday’s loss was on more on Cashman, certainly not on Joba.
I don’t blame Pena or Molina either, although each had the chance to put us ahead in the 7th. I didn’t expect them to get a hit in that situation (although I hoped they would, of course).
The Yanks should have had a better hitter on the bench last night, just as they should tonight and tomorrow night when we are playing our other biggest threat.
Injuries don’t excuse it – there are better hitters at Scranton and one of them should have been here last night to hit for Molina or Pena.
I’m not saying that call up, whoever it would have been, would have gotten a hit, but they would have had a better chance, and we might have won.
I probably sound like a broken record, but the roster is frustrating, especially when we are playing Boston and Tampa.
SJ44
May 6th, 2009 at 2:07 pm
The fist pump “controversy” is just idiotic.
I WANT this kid to show emotion.
I WANT this team to show emotion.
Geez Louise, its SPORTS!!!
You are supposed to show some passion.
=========================
Joba’s spirit can’t be contained, and yes, that’s something to celebrate, because he has the talent to back it up – and that’s what pisses people off.
No talking head is going to turn our boy into a eunuch.
You go Joba! Keep those fists flying, my friend.
I will say one other thing about Johnny Damon…..
I think he’s been a success as a Yankee. I think he is one helluva player and comes to play, and plays the game the right way, every night.
The LAST thing I would do is give Matt Holliday a 120+ million dollars and stick him in LF in the off-season.
He’s not a difference maker nor a 100+ million dollar player.
You know what I would do? I would give Damon a 1 year deal and bring him back.
He is still a very productive player.
I would wait on Carl Crawford, who will be a FA after 2010 and the Rays aren’t going to sign him to a long term deal.
That’s a guy who is a difference maker.
Damon would take a one year deal to come back and that’s the way I would go.
I think Burnett has a chance to give us some length tonight, as Tampa’s hitters, though dangerous, aren’t the most patient in baseball.
Considering he’s a K guy, I’ll take 7 IP with exceeding gratitude.
I never mentioned those other teams, don’t try to deflect. The Yanks were missing their Catcher, RF and top 2 third basemen (one of who just happens to be one of the best players in the game) in addition they are getting nothing from Tex yet and have also lost at least 2 members of their bullpen. The Sox have been able to put a consistent lineup on the field. You can get by with sitting a Youk and Ellsbury for a game or 2 but try sitting them for 20 and see the holes in their backups become more and more evident.
It was the game against LAA that the Yankees ended up winning 10-9. Anyway, they scored 4 in the first and then were shut down until the 8th and 9th innings, which gave LAA the opportunity to come back and almost win the game.
“That’s up to the offense and bullpen to do its job. Unfortunately, that didn’t happen last night.”
Hard to imagine given they were so fired up.
Guess that’s my point. Despite him pitching well for most of 5 innings, the team played spotty defense, the pen still sucked, hitters didn’t hit well with runners in scoring position and in fact couldn’t even get a runner in scoring position after the 6th inning. Joba made the game worth watching, but that “fired up” team died like dogs after the 6th inning of a 4-3 game.
I agree about the bench issue. Its really inexcusable at this point to have the bench configured as it is. It hurts the team on a nightly basis.
That said, the biggest pitch of the game was the 2-0 pitch to Pena in the 7th inning I believe. That pitch was a foot outside, called a strike, and it changed the entire AB.
The kid really got hosed on that pitch. If its 3-0, the entire AB changes.
Little thing but, it was a big moment in the game.
Doesn’t excuse the roster configuration. Just felt the kid deserved better from a bad HP umpire in that AB.
“I think he’s been a success as a Yankee. I think he is one helluva player and comes to play, and plays the game the right way, every night”
Agree 1 zillion percent. Plays hard. Plays hurt. Plays well. I hope he does agree to a one year deal, as I’d definitely like him back for one more season.
That one missed call forced Pena to swing on the next pitch, which was also outside, and which he struck out on.
“hitters didn’t hit well with runners in scoring position”
This was not a team fault last night. Damon was 1 for 1 with RISP. Cano 0 for 1. Molina and Pena were 0 for 3, and that’s where the problem was. But Molina and Pena aren’t good hitters, you can’t expect them to come through in the clutch. If they do it’s gravy.
The problem was they were at the plate when other people should have been at the plate.
Between now and the 4th of July, the goal should be to try and stay within 5 games of a playoff spot.
Given the injuries, ineffectiveness and bullpen issues, that’s a reasonable short term goal, IMO.
Get everybody back healthy which, if all goes right with their respective rehabs, will happen by the 4th of July.
At that time, a trade market will form.
If by the 4th of July, Arod, Nady, Posada, Wang, Marte and Bruney are back, and they are within 5 games of a playoff spot, they will then be positioned to make a run.
Given all the problems with the team right now, I think that’s a reasonable, re-adjusted short term goal right now.
SJ44
No I don’t like his fist pumps when he gives up 4 runs in the first inning and puts his team in a hole. What I do like about Joba is he is not afraid to throw in and back batters off the plate. He has guts. He has great stuff. But he was a part of the loss last night, best starter or not.
Good for Greinke, that he was able to come back. Thanks for the info. And Greinke is only 25 and pitching lights out. Now that deserves a fist pump.
Thanks
Here is a list of comments to follow up with ones I saw listed above.
Emotion, it’s for the love of the game. I love seeing players like Joba, Swish, Tex, and Shelly get all hyped up in the game… we love baseball, so do they, show emotion – you want to win this game as much as we want you to, last time I checked, that’s an emotion. They aren’t accountants, they’re ball players… watch your kids play ball, are they emotionless when they play too?
1) Melky should have stayed on 2nd.
2) Girardi should have let Joba continue to pitch for a bit, despite his pitch count, he’s was a better chance than our bullpen was to win it.
3) Injuries happen… there are plenty of teams with far less power at the plate and on the mound that are doing much better than we are right now, so the crutch of our injuries needs to quit, get over it, it’s part of baseball.
4) I’m so sick of hearing everyone dream about A-Rod coming back. He’s not God, nor is he going to be our savior and crush every opponent we have. Granted, he’s a zillion times better than Berroa, he’s not God.
5) I was at the game last night, and it was half empty. Of course the weather had a bit to do with it, but to see so many empty seats at one of the BIGGEST games of the year, it’s sad. They need to make another attempt to resolve the ticket issues, because it’s far from resolved now.
6) What happened to all of the old yankees employees? I’ve met only one vendor that actually worked at the old stadium. Are they still there? Did they hire that many people that i’m meeting this many new employees?
7) This has to be said… As much as the losses and wins are a group effort, all the blame can’t be pinned on Girardi. Trust me, I miss Torre, and congrats to him and the Dodgers on a pristine start to the ’09 season, but to pin the blame on Girardi seems like the wrong move.
sj 44 , why is it that when papelbon pumps his fist, its wrong. when joba does it, he is firing up the team? i have been following baseball for 2 years and you seem to know alot about the game.