Today in The Journal News
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on May 06, 2009 
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Joba Chamberlain struck out 12 but the Yankees lost (again) to the Red Sox.
Rick Carpiniello writes in his column that Joba looked every bit a starter last night.
Jorge Posada is on the DL with a hamstring tear. This notebook also has updates on Alex Rodriguez, Alfredo Aceves and Chien-Ming Wang.
After issues with some upset fans on Monday, the Yankees said they would improve communication during delays.
pete,do you think that the yankees will trade to get a catcher??
btw,I was one of the stupid people who thought that jobo should be in the pen.He proved me wrong last night.But that bullpen still worries me
I am at a loss to enjoy the Pyrrhic victory by the yanks, who LOST.
Yes Joba struck out 12 men, 7 of them due to the umps and their ridiculous plate calls. Whoopie, great times.
Since when did we settle for moral victories?
Is anyone awake!
Why was Joba celebrating with his fist pumps, etc.? His team is losing because he gave up 4 runs. Inappropriate. It’s like Papelbon or Krod celebrating when they blow a save, then strike out the side.
I don’t like these celebrations, but at least when closers do it, the game is over. Their TEAM has won.
Two games in a row, Joba started off slow and then dominated. So, logically, it would seem Joba needs to get up to speed a little more quickly. Other than that, Joba needs to stay in the rotation.
So far, this season stinks. I don’t know any other way to say it (nicely).
You can rail about Girardi’s bullpen management all you want, but if the tools in the shed don’t work, it doesn’t really matter which one you use or in what order you use them, the job is not going to get done. However, mix and match clearly isn’t working, so I do think it’s fair to want Girardi to try something different, a new strategy. Maybe instead of letting the pitchers “audition” for roles, just hand them out and see what happens. It really couldn’t have any worse results, could it?
The Yankees got to play the Red Sox while they (the Yanks) are at their weakest. How many are on the DL? I truly did not expect them to win last night after it was announced Jorge was going on the DL. It was another body blow, this time a big one. But isn’t it sad that the expectation wasn’t that they’d come out fighting?
It IS still early. But it’s obvious some things are not going fix themselves. I don’t think the answer is to fire Joe Girardi. I don’t think the next guy coming in will do anything much differently, or rather, will get any different results. Will the guys in the bullpen suddenly remember how to throw strikes just because there’s a new manager in place?
I think we may all have to adjust our expectations a bit this season. Unfortunately. And you know what, I don’t care if it was a rainy cold mid-week night – there were FAR too many empty field level seats last night for a Boston series. And, there were far too many Boston fans sitting in the ones that were occupied. The concept of the field level luxury box (to complement the usual luxury suite) is not a good one, not in this economy for sure. But maybe never. If luxury suites go unoccupied, no one can see that. But the luxury boxes are there for all the world to view. Even when a team is not doing well, the seats near the field should always be full, or close to it.
We’ll be aight
Even Doreen is doomy and gloomy.
Please. Take Joba off this team and nobody would go to the games.
He’s the only reason to watch this team right now. Who cares about fist pumps.
Right now, this is the Good Ship Awful Team.
Can’t hit with RISP. Don’t have starters who go deep into games. The bullpen is embarrassingly bad. Half the roster is injured.
They brag about their farm system yet, everybody who comes up, can’t get the job done. Some are so bad, you wonder what talent evaluations saw in the guy.
Simply put, its a mess.
They don’t have to be this bad all season for their season to go down the tubes. All they have to do is be bad enough long enough to dig a hole deep enough to keep them on the outside looking for the playoffs. That can be as little as 2-3 weeks to accomplish that feat.
Just look at last year if you need any reminders.
Make no mistake, they didn’t spend this kind of coin this off-season to have moral victories or “rebuild”. If they don’t make the playoffs, everybody in the baseball ops are gone. Injuries, futility or excuses notwithstanding, the issue should be for the folks whose jobs are on the line:
“How does this team make the playoffs”.
They have to do 4 things immediately IMO:
1. The starters have to start earning their money. They didn’t spend what they spent in the off-season to have guys go 5 innings, constantly pitch in 2-0, 3-1 counts, have #9 hitters hit .435 (which is the the Avg. of #9 hitters against Yankee pitching this year) off them and generally stink up the place on a near nightly basis.
I don’t want to hear about injuries, how tough it is to play in NY, etc. You took the money, now take on the challenge. The starters have to go deeper into games. if they can’t, their season is over.
2. At some point, this organization has to realize little things win as many games as big things. Sign “big” FA’s? They do that very well. Do the “little things” such as manage a 25 or 40 man roster correctly? Have logical contingency plans? Find a guy that can help you on the bench? They are poor in those areas.
How many times in the last 2 days have we said, “They could really use a PH right now”? Who steps up to the plate? Brett Gardner. If Brett Gardner is your PH choice off the bench, you aren’t managing your roster correctly.
Get rid of the 13th player and some of the slop on the 25 and 40 man rosters and get people (Linden, Rodriquez or Duncan for example) up here to help your bench. If not, don’t be upset if this team has no way to help themselves off the bench. They need more bench help.
3. Get a catcher. I don’t care if it costs them 2 of their vaunted “propsects”, they need a catcher. You aren’t winning anything if Jose Molina and Francisco Cervelli are your catchers for a long period of time this year.
We went through this last year. I don’t want to hear how tough it is to get a catcher. That’s an excuse and this is a No Excuses year. Get a catcher because they need one. You can’t wait 3 years and hope the kids you have in A Ball can catch. They need one now. If they have to overpay? Well, that’s the cost of doing business. I
4. Stop using the following phrase…”When (insert the name of the injured player) gets back……
Treat injured players like they are dead. That’s what good football coaches do. You know why that is? They look to take the excusemaking off the players and get them to focus at the job at hand. Which is winning games.
Posada, Bruney, Wang and Marte are going to be out for a long time. They aren’t coming back tonight, tomorrow, next week or, perhaps even next month. That means you have anywhere between 7 and 25 more games without some or all of those players.
The 25 guys on the roster right now have to right the ship. That has to be the mindset. “What can I do to help the team win a game tonight”? If that’s not the mindset here, you might as well start talking about 2010.
TRADE FOR BETEMIT
Last night’s game was the ultimate in frustration and rigidity of thinking. Joba strikes out 8 in a row and 12 in the first 5, and because he reaches 104 pitches, Joe is constrained to take him out because of Joba rules. With 2 outs in the inning no less.
He effectively conceded the game because there is not one of us here who didn’t think the bullpen would give up runs, thus putting the game out of reach. What a mess.
Its not a question of “doom and gloom”. Its a question of being a realist. This team can’t be this bad for much longer and expect folks to keep their jobs.
I don’t want to hear about injuries. That’s BS. The Red Sox also have injuries.
You mean to tell me, the New York Yankees don’t have a single pitcher to put in the bullpen that can throw the ball over the plate and get outs on a consistent basis?
If the answer to that question is, “yes”, then heads gotta roll because that’s completely unacceptable.
I don’t care about injuries, rookies, the Red Sox or any other excuse de jour. You have to get the job done.
If not, then somebody else will be put in place to get the job done.
Is it a tough spot for Girardi? Yes and no.
Yes because the injuries have affected the team. That’s unfortunate. No because, if he rights the ship, which means making good decisions, he’s in the gig for a long time.
You watch these games and you just see something is missing with this team and its not just injured players.
There is no belief they can win games against the Red Sox or any real good team for that matter. They don’t play with a confidence, swagger and belief. They play with hope. Hope doesn’t get it done.
Its almost as if they are resigned to their fate of futility.
That’s an attitude that a manager has to eliminate from his team immediately.
Its not easy but, the LaRussa’s, Leyland’s, Torre’s etc, do just that. Its why they get paid the big bucks.
If Joe Girardi wants to be in that class, this is his time. If not, he’s gone by Memorial Day and Tony Pena gets a shot.
Fair? Pro sports isn’t about what’s fair. Little league is about what’s fair.
Pro sports is a bottom line, no excuses, no BS business.
Bottom line, this team, regardless of WHO is injured, shouldn’t be this bad.
If it is, somebody is going to pay for it with his job if it doesn’t get better and get better quickly.
GIRADI IS IN WAY OVER HIS HEAD. JOE TORRE WAS SPECIAL
SJ44 -
If what’s going on right now makes them shake up the organization, that’s fine with me.
I think football coaches do what they do because they play a very short season, especially compared to baseball. Basically, when a guy is out, he might as well be dead, because chances are there’s not enough time to make a comeback.
I think the Yankees have to stop thinking it’s early. (Though it is, I think it leads you down a more complacent path to rely on this.) If this were August and these injuries were happening, what would they do? Now, one of the problems is when you’re hit like this with injuries this early there are not as many avenues available to make fixes – most teams are not looking to make trades in May, for instance. And you have to be careful not to compound the already manic mantra of WS or bust that already exists on the Yankees.
SJ, you said yourself, these guys play tight. So, it’s a fine, fine tightrope you walk when you know you can’t get complacent about the “youngness” of the season and still address deficiences in an aggressive manner that doesn’t reek of panic.
And I’m not saying injuries are an excuse – but you have to be realistic – they do have an impact on how this team is playing. Should – or could – they manage it better? That would be apparent.
1. NEED A BAT OFF THE BENCH. SHELLY DUNCAN ANYONE? HE’S ONLY LEADING ALL PROS IN HOMERUNS. YEAH, HE STRIKES OUT BUT IF HE MAKES CONTACT THE BALL IS IN THE STANDS!
2. DFA ONE OF VERAS, EDWAR, ALBY.
3. TRADE MELKY FOR A RELIEVER! DO IT NOW BEFORE HIS STOCK DROPS!
4. BRING UP AJAX!
“3. Get a catcher. I don’t care if it costs them 2 of their vaunted “propsects”, they need a catcher. You aren’t winning anything if Jose Molina and Francisco Cervelli are your catchers for a long period of time this year.
We went through this last year. I don’t want to hear how tough it is to get a catcher. That’s an excuse and this is a No Excuses year. Get a catcher because they need one. You can’t wait 3 years and hope the kids you have in A Ball can catch. They need one now. If they have to overpay? Well, that’s the cost of doing business.”
Name. Names. Please.
You keep saying that, that they need to target a catcher. But who? What do you give up? If Cashman calls up Texas about Teagarden/Ramirez, and they ask for Hughes? If Cashman calls up Arizona about Montero and they ask for Jackson?
No one’s going to trade a decent backup catcher for Veras+Horne+Konto+___+___.
I think everybody saying they need to trade for a catcher is crazy. There’s a reason they let Pudge go. We didn’t need him! What if you trade for an offensive catcher this weekend, what do you do next month with 3 catchers? There is no need for that.
wow melky’s hitting 344.He’s proving a lot of people wrong
POSADA’S INJURY IS SERIOUS! HE WILL BE GONE FOR MONTHS. THIS TEAM WILL GO NOWHERE WITH MOLINA/CERVELLI!
I can give you a bunch of names:
Max Ramirez, Lou Marson, Miguel Montero. None of those guys will cost them Hughes and/or Austin Jackson.
I could name more guys but, those would be the first 3 on my list.
Miguel Montero is rotting on the bench in Arizona. They aren’t looking for A List prospects for him now. They are looking for arms.
The Yankees have arms in A, AA, and AAA. At least arms good enough that opposing scouts like. So, deal them and get a catcher.
Forget Posada coming back in 3 weeks. That’s a pipe dream.
He has a Grade 2 tear of his hamstring. That’s 6 weeks, MINIMUM.
What do you do when he gets back? Here’s a novel thought. You take the guy you acquired and put him in Scranton.
How hard his that?
You can’t go through another month or two, or longer for that matter, with Molina and Cervelli.
Its a big problem. Don’t address it, and hope Posada is healthy the rest of the year (unlikely, given his age and current injury history) and it becomes a real weakness with the team.
@ransom sucks
so you want to trade melky and put gardner in CF?pff…
Two more things:
1) If the pitching was doing the job it was supposed to do, even with all the injuries, they’d be far better than 13-13.
And,
2) I sure wish I could go back to being a more casual fan. Sigh.
WHY DONT YOU READ MY POST AGAIN
“4. BRING UP AJAX!”
The last thing the Yankees should do is rush yet another prospect to the majors.
Why did no one ask Girardi about the absence of a squeeze in the 6th inning? You had a runner with decent speed at third; a very good bunter at the plate (a rookie facing an experienced pitcher); a weak hitter on deck; and a driving rain, which not only threatened to shorten the game, but also would have made it very difficult to field and throw a wet ball.
If ever there was a time for the manager to assert himself and use strategy to help a struggling team, it was then. Instead, Girardi put his “faith” in Pena and the result was another wasted opportunity.
Girardi’s job shouldn’t be in the balance because of a struggling bullpen, but moves (or the lack thereof) like last night do call into question his ability to tacticly manage a game. The rope should be short for Girardi going forward. This team cannot afford to flounder much longer.
talk about rushing a prospect….Melky is only 24 years old.Give him some credits for playing this well.He will only get better…putting a-jax in CF right now doesn’t make sense
Peter will never give Melky credit, wonder why?
I GIVE MELKY CREDIT, HE ‘S PLAYING GOOD RIGHT NOW. THAT’S WHY HE NEEDS TO BE TRADED FOR A DECENT RELIEVER! DO IT CASHMAN.
Catchers don’t grow on trees, so it’s silly to think you can simply go out and pluck a good one. Having said that, there has been a growing rift between Ramon Castro and Jerry Manuel. Castro’s career OPS+ of 90 isn’t bad for a catcher, so I wonder if he could be had on the cheap. According to some sources, Manuel would prefer to keep Santos when Schneider returns.
I still can’t believe the current situation the Yankees are in. I am very hopeful that things will get better, but that does not mean I’m ignoring what is going on right now.
The loss of Posada is gonna hurt big time, the bullpen needs divine intervention, the starters need to do a better job in games and they are still allergic to getting those risp home. Not a good mix. Also, with Alex coming back soon, I hope people aren’t expecting him to be this magical savior that’s gonna cure all of the Yankee offensive problems immediately.
The only cure for the gloominess we all have due to this depressing losing streak is a nice long winning streak. Let’s hope that can start tonight with AJ.
Also, can the rain go away? I feel like I am living in England again(I lived there for a year for school when I was younger). I don’t even remember the last time we saw the sun in the NYC-metro area.
SJ, said that the only reason people are showing up to the games is because of Joba,uuuhmmmm Joba only pitches once a week and last time I checked people were still showing up when he isnt pitching. So stop with this Joba thing, last night was his only good start of the entire year and he still managed to give up four runs.
DON’T BE TOO EXCITED ABOUT MELKY. HE’S NO CANO AND EVEN CANO IS SLUMPING RIGHT NOW. AN EXAMPLE OF A MELKY SLUMP IS GOING 0-50.
RANSOM SUCKS, I pray to god everyday th at the Yankees trade Melky, than you will put into practice the saying “you don’t know what you have until you lose it”
Disappointing game again last night. The offense is just completely out of kilter and the bull pen very bad.
That said, Joba was simply phenomenal after the first inning. Those kinds of starts happen and he took responsibility for it saying the loss was on him after the game.
But it was just a remarkable execution of pitching. I don’t know if there’s another pitcher in the game who could have mixed together 5 pitches like that while throwing that hard.
Boston is one of the best hitting line ups in the game. And they had utterly no chance. None whatsoever.
He truly pitched last night. Pitched in a very complex way – the way usually only a veteran can.
That was the best level of pitching we’ve seen from Joba since he’s been in the majors – bull pen or starter.
After that first inning he was better than he was last year in that 1-0 game in boston against Beckett.
Yes had a remarkable stat from Elias they highlighted on the game last night.
Joba entered the rotation last June 3. Of all MLB pitcher who have since then made at least 15 starts Joba has the 6th lowest ERA in all of baseball. 6th lowest.
What’s even more remarkable about that was that all 5 guys ahead of him pitched predominantly in the NL over that span of games (Johan, CC, Harden, Oswalt and the 5th guy was also from the NL but I’m forgetting who it was).
So over the span in which he’s made his 16 starts Joba has the lowest ERA of any pitcher who has pitched only in the American League.
And he’s 22.
The franchise has never had a young pitcher like this in the past 40 years.
Is that really sj? I don’t know anymore.
SA -
I know how you feel about the rain! Ugh. It’s just adding to the depression. Believe it or not the sun came out only last Saturday. And it looks to not be in the forecast for at least 3 or 4 more days. This is just acceptable!!!!
Jennifer, I don’t think so he’s too negative.
SJ44,
Calm down. My doom and gloom comment was a joke.
Perhaps I should have said the Yankees have looked so bad against the Red Sox that even Doreen who is normally very optimistic is starting to have doubts about the team.
Is that better?
jennifer -
In my opinion it is really SJ44. He does not waste time in re-assessing a situation. While he was optimistic to begin the season, things have really turned south quickly around here. In the past 2 seasons, SJ has always adjusted his thinking to the situation at hand.
I say the past 2 season (plus this one, really) because that’s how long I’ve been coming to this blog.
Doreen-the rain really is making things feel more gloomy than usual. The yankees losing isn’t helping and everything just feels so..BLAH right now.
We Want the Sun!
We Want the Sun!
The only problem with this team is that they can’t beat Boston. Take away the games against the Sox and they are 13-8 and the Sox are 12-10 when not playing the Yankees. The fact is that Boston just plays better against the Yankees and the Yankees can not get out of their own way against Boston. They need to get pissed off and start beating Boston or they don’t deserve to make the playoffs. They can’t let Boston dominate them like this all year or they are screwed.
raymagnetic -
I may be having some doubts, but I still expect the Yankees to win tonight.
That was his only good start of the year? Did you see his start in Detroit? That wasn’t good?
He was great last night. He pitched real well in Detroit.
Right now, he is the only reason to watch Yankee Baseball.
Don’t believe me? Listen to the crowd. They were more amped up for him, and sat through the rain no less, than any game this season.
Are you guys really Yankee fans? What’s with all of this whining about how the team sucks because they are playing .500 ball early in the season? Isn’t this a typical Yankee start? Haven’t we won the division 8 out of the last 10 years with starts very simialr to this? Isn’t his the best pitching staff we have had in a very long time (at least on paper? Joba had a great game under difficult personal circumstances. This could be the begining of something very good. The bull pen will get sorted out. Just relax and enjoy the games. Stop whining and support your team!
And I am really, really impressed with Joba!!!
And Phil Hughes, and even Melky Cabrera.
I think that really is SJ44, but I believe during the game last night his copy cat made an appearance? That wasn’t you right SJ44?
Let’s hold off on writing Bruney’s obituary and Wang’s too, for that matter……
Well, the only problem with this team isn’t that they can’t beat Boston.
Taking record sample sizes is not the issue.
The problem with this team is their bullpen is awful and that will impact more games this year than anything if it doesn’t get straightened out.
Plus, “not being able to beat Boston”, isn’t really a good thing.
If they can’t beat Boston, they better dominate everybody else because you can’t make the playoffs if you go 0 for the season against anybody, let alone your division rival.
Its great to wave pom poms but, your eyes can’t lie.
You watch this team and its pretty clear unless they get some help and fast in some key areas (catcher, bullpen, bench) this season is in trouble right now.
SJ44, people sat through the rain, after a two hour delay at 1 in the morning the previous night to watch Phil Hughes out of all people, please.
Where exactly are the Red Sox injuries that some people have been talking about?
Games started:
C Varitek-20 Kottaras-7
1B Youkilis-24 Bailey-3
2B Pedroia-27
3B Lowell-26 Youkilis-1
SS Green-18 Lowrie-5 Lugo-4
LF Bay-27
CF Ellsbury-26 Baldelli-1
RF Drew-22 Baldelli-3 Bailey-1
DH Ortiz-27
Other than Green (who is hitting 41 points above his lifetime average) that looks like a pretty set lineup.
SJ44 do you really think Tony Pena will give the Yanks a kick in the butt that they need? He is a bench coach now, shouldn’t his presence be felt?
This sounds a lot like the Mets situation when Willie left.
It is also pretty strange that right after sj posts something sb does too. I don’t know I am skeptical it is either one of them. This is why we need registration!
I think I’ll hold off on the psychological diagnosis of the Yankees – no swagger? no belief in themselves? If they were executing, we wouldn’t be saying this.
yankeee- who is talking about sox injuries? (fyi I didn’t read through the thread).
Betsy,
When players aren’t on the roster, they are dead. If you wait around for players to come back, your season goes down the drain.
If they come back? Terrific. However, neither guy is going to be here in the next month. That’s 27-30 games.
You gotta play’em so, they have to find a way to win games.
If not, it won’t matter what those guys do when they get back. The hole will be too big to dig out of if they want to make the playoffs.
The downside of being in a competitive division.
SA,
I didn’t post in the game thread last night once the game started.
We do support the team.
This team wasn’t supposed to lose so many ugly games. They weren’t supposed to play so many ugly games.
The bullpen was supposed to be a strength and it’s – well, it’s a joke most nights.
It’s just frustrating and disappointing. And you have to talk about those things. It does not mean any of us don’t believe the Yankees can turn it around. I think many do. But there is no denying that as of this minute, this team is not playing to what many of us believe are its capabilities.
Yankee U – the Red Sox have not had injuries even remotely comparable to the Yankees. I don’t agree with SJ44 either.
Here is what it would look like if the Sox lost who we have lost:
DL…..
Masterson
Okajima
Dice-K (gone)
Kevin Youkilis
Varitek
JD Drew
Nick Green
They would be royally screwed if that happened.
sj nailed it again.
get a catcher now.
trade what players it takes.
keep rotating bullpen guys in until some of them stick including igawa.
if veras,ramirez are not getting it done send them down,bring others up.
worse case scenario they can be brought back up.
the biggest problem right now outside of the pitching is we need a catcher like yesterday.
posada can’t be counted on anymore.it is as simple as that.
get a catcher & dh posada in 2010 & 2011.
Betsy,
They don’t execute because they play tight. They play tight because they play with no confidence and/or swagger.
It all goes together.
How else do explain guys who consistently swing at pitches out of the strikezone with RISP? Or, pitchers, known for control, who can’t find the strikezone?
They play tight and tentative. Its there for all to see and that’s why they don’t execute. Its a problem and its a big reason why they have trouble beating teams like Boston.
“That said, Joba was simply phenomenal after the first inning. Those kinds of starts happen and he took responsibility for it saying the loss was on him after the game.”
Some reason why he shouldn’t have taken responsibility for the loss?
He was nothing short of superb in innings 2-6, but the 1st ining counts too. You get 4 A’s and an F and your GPA is 3.2, right? That’s what Joba was last night and it wasn’t good enough.
WHAT ABOUT EXECUTING PITCHES TO BAY? DO THE YANKEES HAVE ANY SCOUTING REPORTS AT ALL? STOP THROWING HIM FASTBALLS OUT-MIDDLE OF THE PLATE. IF YOU GOTTA, BUZZ HIM INSIDE FIRST. JOBA DID THE RIGHT THING DRILLING HIM. HE’S BEEN LEANING TOWARDS THE PLATE LOOKING FOR THE FB. NEXT TIME IT’S TO THE HEAD.
I like Joba, but I’m not about to go over the top and say he’s the only reason to watch. Sheesh.
On this thread SJ44
“I don’t want to hear about injuries. That’s BS. The Red Sox also have injuries.”
but it has been mentioned before
what to do right away?
first of all, focus on the plusses and build around them.
one obvious plus is sabathia, burnett, and pettitte.
at all costs, get them tuned up and going 7 innings every start.
the yankees are thin in overall good pitchers right now so the ones that are good need to pitch more innings even if their era takes a little hit.
they need to attack the zone and get more innings in. no walk and lots of innings. this lessens the use of middle relievers. the yankees starters have not been going deep in games and walk way too many hitters.
eiland simply needs to change the strategy he’s been pushing. don’t tell me he emphasizes throwing strikes and pounding the zone because he doesn’t . look at the twins pitcher’s walk rate this year and last year. they pound the zone at every level of the organization.
seven innings needs to be the new minimum standard for the big three. hughes and joba should be separated in the rotation so aceves or another long reliever is rested to come in for them on their short outings.
SA,
I didn’t post in the game thread last night once the game started.
=============================
Ah! Thought so SJ44.
This place has an impostor problem. We really need registration.
At the start of the season many, many people here said that the yankees simply needed to be around .500 until Alex got back.
Despite things not going as planned – they are right around that mark.
And unlike prior years Boston hasn’t gotten off to a scorching start (though they are now playing very well…).
The issue of hitting will need to be reassessed when Alex comes back.
Ramiro Pena was up at what was arguably the most crucial at bat of the game.
They aren’t playing well – but they are at that target level for playing without Alex.
Last year I think they were 9-15 without him.
They missed the playoffs by 5 games.
Once he gets back hopefully Tex starts to relax and stops pressing so much.
They are playing worse than their record. It’s fortunate that they are where they are.
Changes need to be made to the pen and over the short term that means using less of Albabladejo, Ramirez and Veras and more of Melancon, Robertson, and Aceves.
Those latter three guys might fail but until you give them a shot you’re not going to know.
Red Sox are still winning despite their injuries because they have a number of players off to hot starts. Unlike the Yankees who always start out slow for some reason.
Their starters have been shaky much like the Yankees. But their offense makes up for it.
Yankee offense looks dead. Terrible with RISP. And the pen is awful. That too me so far is the biggest difference (on the field) between the Yankees & RS.
When some of you people get done whining and throwing your temper tantrums, fits about how the Yankees are playing or who life has treated you so unfairly, read this article about Greg Norton of the Braves. Maybe you’ll realize that things aren’t so bad after all.
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/articl.....8;c_id=mlb
DON’T FORGET EILAND’S LIES ABOUT WANG HAVING “GREAT STUFF” IN HIS BULLPEN SESSIONS. THAT’S BULL. HIS FASTBALL WAS 5 MPH SLOWER AND WITH NO MOVEMENT. HOW’S THAT “GOOD STUFF”??? LIE SOME MORE EILAND AND YOU WILL BE JOBLESS SOON.
a 209 million dollar team should not be having these problems.
we should of had another catcher,cf & at least one bullpen aquisition.
the bench i can’t fault the yankees.
cashman & others fell so in love with the starting rotation that they dropped the ball on everything else.
the main thing is we have to get the pitching going at all costs & real quick.this includes the bullpen.
pitching can cover a lot of other weak spots.
there were a lot of fa relievers that the yankees should of looked at like putz,etc…
ransom- For once I agree with you. All of a sudden this guy is like Manny. Why don’t they buzz him. Currently he owns the Yankees. I mean it is Jason frikin Bay!!
“Some reason why he shouldn’t have taken responsibility for the loss? ”
No. That was my point. He said he was responsible for the loss because he gave up those 4 runs in the first inning.
He said the loss was on him. That’s why I wrote that at the top of my comment.
Nowhere did I imply that he wasn’t culpable for the loss.
On the flip side giving up 4 runs to boston over 6 innings is far from terrible start.
If AJ Burnett had done that in that first series in Boston they win that game.
take your caps lock off
Lets not mention that .200 hitter Ortiz got on base like 5 million times. That shouldn’t happen.
The good thing I believe is that we only play the Red Sox 9 more times. We play fine against other teams.
New thread.
Randy,
Good points.
Look, there was a lot to like about the team coming out of ST.
But, stuff happens once live bullets begin and you have to adjust.
Some of the issues Randy, myself and others have, is how late the Yankees adjust to market changing conditions.
We all thought the bullpen was going to be the strength of the team. Rightfully so, given their success of last season.
But, we now see that’s not the case. So, make adjustments.
That’s what some of us are talking about. Makes changes because the market conditions have changed.
Don’t live in denial. Which, truth be told, is a hallmark of this organization on quite a few fronts.
ransom sucks-Did you ever meet anyone under the O’Neil banner that day you went to the game with your little brother?
“seven innings needs to be the new minimum standard for the big three. ”
The “magic number” for the yankees coming into the season, IMO, was 33.
Each time they go through the rotation I thought their starters needed to give them 33 innings.
That would leave the bull pen to only throw 27% of their innings over the season.
Last year the bull pen threw around 38% of all their innings.
It’ll be tough to get 33 innings with both Hughes and Joba. But CC, AJ and Andy absolutely must get them at least 21 innings each time through.
To those 21 innings you add Joba/Hughes throwing 10-12 innings and that gets the starters up to 31-33 innings.
Even 31 innings each time through would be good. That would leave the bull pen throwing an acceptable 31% of their innings.
The bull pen is bad. The first way to “fix” it is to minimize the number of innings they need to throw.
AJ needs to give them 7 innings tonight. We can’t have another game of him saying afterwards in the locker room it was tough, I was fighting myself all game, etc., etc. because he was unable to throw strikes.
sabathia & burnett need to earn their money.
they are veterans that know how too pitch & are getting bombed.
7 innings at 15 pitches per inning is 105 pitches & should easily be able to be done.
these pitchers need to throw strikes.
as someone mentioned the pitchers need to give us 7 innings almost every time out.
this will take a lot of pressure off the pen.
CB,
BTW, on the Pena AB, I agree with you, that was the biggest AB of the game.
That said, he got absolutely HOSED by Mike Dimuro on the 2-1 pitch.
That pitch, the biggest one of the game, is a foot outside and he gives Beckett the strike.
Changed the entire AB.
CB:
That’s what he’s supposed to do. Burnett did the same when he blew up at Fenway and Sabathia has done it a few times. This is his 3rd year with the big club. Can’t be giving him bonus points for correctly assuming responsibility anymore.
May not be his fault, but you almost have to think he was not completely warmed up when he came out for the 1st. Don’t know what his 1st inning numbers are on the year, and whatever they are probably are skewed by last night’s effort, but the difference between that inning and the rest of his night was staggering.
SJ,
Good point on the Pena at bat. That was a terrible call.
Rookies get treated that way – especially no name ones facing beckett.
The offense will be much better when Alex gets back.
The team missed him terribly last year and he had a below average season for himself.
I’m hoping he does what he did in 2007 – locks out media, locks out the noise, keeps his headphones on before games and just goes out an plays.
Steve,
The difference is, Joba is just learning to be a starter in the majors.
They had plenty of chances to score after the first inning and failed to do so. That, and their awful bullpen, is what cost them the game.
CB,
Yup. The offense and starting pitching are going to have to take the bullpen out of the equation.
They need too many arms to fix. So, the starters have to go deeper into games. They have to score a ton of runs and, if the game is close, hope Mariano has a lot of innings in him.
“The team missed him terribly last year and he had a below average season for himself.”
No CB, he really didn’t. At least not offensively.
He hit .302. His career average is .306
His OBP, SLG and OPS were .392, .573, and .965 respectively.
His career numbers are .389, .578 and .967.
He went for 35 and 100+ runs and rbi despite missing 25 games and hit more doubles than he had in any season since he was with the Rangers.
If we get Arod’s average year again this year, it’s going to be a great help.
are the yankees surrounding themselves with the right scouts,developement people,coaches,managers??
how come nobody knows how to bunt??
most of our pitchers had tj surgery?
positioning players??
from the 1970′s through 2003 it was the yankees doing everything right compared to boston.now it seems like someone switched sides & the roles are exactly reversed.
very strange.
“Makes changes because the market conditions have changed.
Don’t live in denial. Which, truth be told, is a hallmark of this organization on quite a few fronts.”
sj44-
in a crisis, take stock of what you have and use it. i wouldn’t make it through a year in my small business if i didn’t do that.
the yankees still have a lot of strengths. they need to focus on those and let them dominate. CB is right that the yankees are fortunate that they are at .500.
the big three roll off three good starts and wins and they are three games above.
this can be done. eiland has to meet with the horses the team has and tell them exactly what he wants from them which should be 7 innings minimum and attacking the zone.
innings are more important than era right now.
find the long relief guy. aceves may be the one. find out asap. the yankees need one to protect the bullpen from hughes and chamberlain’s short starts.
this bullpen needs to be not used as much as it is. in a game that the yankees win ideally they are in for one inning with rivera pitching the 9th.
this is the ideal. sabathia, burnett, and pettitte need to take this challenge on. their job needs to be keeping the bullpen in the bullpen for a while until some pitchers get it together out there.
All this gloom and boom no body was singing THAT song when they won 4 in a row. Baseball is a long season they are going to have peaks and valleys and during the low times they’ll probably look bad and during the peaks they’ll probably look like a great team.
The thing is the team isn’t perfect (but there isn’t a team in the MLB that is) but they are a very good team that is struggling a bit right now. They are only 3 games out in the loss column so Boston or Toronto for that matter aren’t that much better and who knows what struggle those teams will come accross during the course of the season. Pace yourselves with the negativity you have 5 more months to go.
if the pitching does not get straightened out arod will not make a difference.
if the starting staff does not turn it around right now starting tonight it will be a long season.
joba,pettitte are fine.
we need to get cc,burnett & wang/hughes going.
i also think hughes will be ok.it is just that going against the rs every pitcher can look bad.
Last night Joba showed us a sign of things to come IN THE ROTATION. If he can be that unhittable for about 5 innings, I can’t wait to see him pitch next year and beyond when he can go 8 or 9 innings, and then he gets in that kind of a zone.
Realize that 12 K’s isn’t going to happen every night he pitches (and that he’ll still have some bad stretches in the future) but when he matures to a seasoned 200+ inning starter and he gets in a groove it’ll be something to watch.
Of course there will be the usual crowd of morons who complain when Joba strikes out only 10 or 11 batters through 8 innings instead of something less mundane like 18+K’s or 12 in 5+ innings. Those people would expect him to strike out 12 per game by coming in to pitch only the 8th and/or 9th innings.
Look what he’s doing at age 22 … and people still want to see him in the bullpen?
joba will be 24 in sept but you are right.
randy
Isn’t it more on the three vet pitchers to do a better job, not on Eiland. Those three have been pitching long enough to know what they need to do.
Last year you gave Eiland, Giradi credit for getting Mussina to understand he needed to pitch more inside.
I’m not saying Eiland is doing things right, just saying veteran pitchers need to take responsibility for their performance. Thats why they get paid the money they are getting.
They can be told what they need to do but it is up to them to go out and do it.
Girardi did a great job in the pen last year. He is doing an equally terrible job this year. he keeps taking out guys who are throwing well until he finds a guy that is not throwing well (which happens often). Veras was throwing well and he is gone after a few pitches. Coke pitches well and he is gone after a dozen pitches. Then he finds someone not throwing well. When it is the 6th inning and a one run game you need to get more out of a guy who is throwing well. Torre used to do this and now Girardi is. Girardi has been doing this for the last 2 weeks. Think about how absurd it is in a 1 run ball game in the 6th/7th inning and He takes Coke out after already taking Veras (who looked sharp) out and the COMBINED for 17 pitches??? Who the heck did he expect to pitch the 8th, 9th and even the possibility of extra innings? Joe has been lost, I hate to say it.
BTW, Pena was doing well and then he doesn’t play for awhile and then looks bad. The only person he has handled well is Melky as he made the switch when Melky did the job.
Posada is a HUGE blow and he won’t be back in 3 weeks, it will be at least 5 IMO and could nag all year.
That being said, and this may sound odd, but I am more worried about Girardi than the team. The team will get it together if they can stay healthy from here on out, there is too much talent. But, if Girardi doesn’t put the team in the best position to be successful, we will lose a lot of close games.
Tim Sherman,
You said:
The only problem with this team is that they can’t beat Boston. Take away the games against the Sox and they are 13-8 and the Sox are 12-10 when not playing the Yankees. The fact is that Boston just plays better against the Yankees and the Yankees can not get out of their own way against Boston. They need to get pissed off and start beating Boston or they don’t deserve to make the playoffs. They can’t let Boston dominate them like this all year or they are screwed.
Well, Tim, I agree with you — but not so much about five games or even this year as over the long term. The reason why I consistently vote the second lowest possible vote for my confidence level in the Yankees’ future is not that I don’t think they’ll have a very good team — because I do think they will have a very good team. It’s that I think the measure of success around here is beating Boston. And Boston is the one team in the majors that it definitely doing a better job of building for the long term and making almost no big long-term mistakes.
So if the Yankees keep giving very big, long-term contracts to players until they’re 40 or more years old, or overpaying them for their production, or simply not getting bargain rates from them like Boston did with Wakefield, Ortiz and others, then they can’t seriously compete with Boston over the long term. Period.
They especially can’t compete with Boston over the long term without a dramatic change in philosophy given the huge hole they’ve already dug for themselves contract wise.
SJ44
And Joba giving up 4 runs had a big part in the loss also. Why are you excusing him?
This is a bad baseball team from the top down.
It’s not a bad baseball team but it’s not as good as we were lead to believe.
last year we had hope that girardi was ‘technically’ better thanst joe at managing a game — he appeared to handle the pitching staff and bulpen well
thus far in 2009 he appears too be worse thanst joe and withh potentially 44% of the team not being mlb calibre as you note — he needs to be better
he has inexplicably run out weak line-ups –
he has benn inept in using pen — but even when he makes reasonable choices the pen implodes — work needs too be regular and balanced
it appeared to me lat nite he could have contolled the pena risp at bat rather than trust in the kid
not sure what he was doing with melancon
why is jeter hitting 1 with his dismal obp — damon is clearly the better 1
“he has inexplicably run out weak line-ups—”
I agree he should have Ruth, Gehrig and Mantle in the lineup every day.