Breaking news: Joba questionable for start
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on May 09, 2009 
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Joba Chamberlain popped a blood vessel in his right thumb during BP. The trainers think he should be able to start tomorrow. But that is why Alfredo Aceves was held out.
UPDATE, 10:39 p.m.: Information is a little sketchy on this as Joba had already left the clubhouse by the time the media had been allowed in. It came up at the end of Joe Girardi’s postgame interview when he was asked why Aceves didn’t relieve Hughes.
According to Girardi, Chamberlain was flipping a ball underhanded during BP when a blood vessel burst in his right thumb. There is no pain, Girardi said. But it’s black and blue. Chamberlain had treatment during the game and trainer Gene Monahan said he should be able to pitch.
With the Yankees, “should be able to pitch” has a funny way of turing into “see you in two weeks.” We’ll see what happens tomorrow.
“I’m ready if they need me,” Aceves said.
The Yankees lead the league in ERA (5.88) and screwy injuries.
Ugh
When it rains it pours. Every freakin’ year the injury bug hurts us. That’s why it is so hard to get excited for a season, having this in the back of your mind.
great news…
man, feeling cursed.
Girardi says he has no pain and could still grip the ball.
stay positive, stay positive *rinse and repeat daily*
Joba is the only reason to watch this team. Please be ok.
Well, let’s see what happens.
So now we know why no Aceves today.
Whoever is pitching tomorrow, let’s get a win somehow.
You can’t be serious…
That was one heck of a winning streak the Yankees put together, it gives real hope for the season.
“Joba is the only reason to watch this team.”
Really?
why was he involved in BP ?
actually they think there is a better chance he’ll pitch than he won’t. But they do need to mention it on the off chance he can’t go tomorrow.
Randy … my friend’s name was Mike Fennell. He was a LeMoyne College graduate. He played with Jim DeShaies and Tom Browning in college as a first baseman and was a 10th-round pick.
Is it me or does Hughes seem like he wants to cry in his postgame interview?
I don’t blame him for the cost of the game 100% the defense screwed up too.
“Is it me or does Hughes seem like he wants to cry in his postgame interview?”
Notice that too. Probably has no idea how to handle this kind of shelling.
Sloppy game for everyone involved, Hughes was just part of it.
randyl
Don’t pitchers usually shag flies?
hughes was getting ahead of hitters almost 0-2 on all the batters in the 2nd alot but just couldnt finish them
Kind of hard to win a game when you are down 8-0 after 2 innings. The offense naturally tries to hit 3 run HRs. Singles and walks do nothing at that point. They need a big inning and they know it.
Ironically, the Red Sox rallied from a 7-0 deficit against Baltimore and Guthrie just a couple weekends ago.
“Is it me or does Hughes seem like he wants to cry in his postgame interview?”
He seemed a little shaky too me. Obviously upset.
Girardi – on the postgame interview – said Joba was tossing a ball underhand to somebody on the side when he felt something on his thumb pop.
hughes’ confidence is shot. he needs to find a way to get it back
night and day between the indians series and now
Wasn’t Cash the one catching Hughes down in AAA? I understand he’s the backup catcher but, what if Hughes was comfortable with him? I was little wry of this game in the 1st place pairing a rookie catcher with a rookie pitcher. I know Cervelli is impressive but, it didn’t seem like Hughes was comfortable with him. It was the same thing when they switched him from Jorgie to Molina. Maybe it doesn’t make a difference.
randy l.
May 9th, 2009 at 10:17 pm
billy – what was your friend’s name?
a close friend of mine named carl taylor was the yankee bullpen catcher from 1989 -1996.
being a bullpen catcher is an interesting position because technically you’re under the coaches, but you interact so much with the players you often get to know them well too.
you have to learn to listen way more than you talk, and keep what you know about things to yourself. if you love baseball it’s a great learning experience.
——————————————————————————————
Is that the same Carl Taylor that used to catch for Pittsburgh and KC back in the 70s, Randy?
Wow, I was at the game and I was standing near Joba. Right around 6:15, Joba was showing his hand to Xavier Nady. oh jeez…
I would cry too if I was given every chance to succeed and choked every time
Hopefully someone in the clubhouse looks Hughes in the eye and says something corny like “We believe in you, kid. Now buck up and get ‘em next time.”
Hughes was rushed to the show this year just like Melancon.
Ken Singleton is normally pretty astute but tonight he said Hughes had nothing left to prove at AAA but he only made three starts there.
Look at each game story by Chad Jennings and you will see that Hughes was a work in progress. I sooooo wish he could have put together a dominant stretch at AAA.
At AAA it is a lot easier to put away hitters when you have them 0-2.
Whats going on with the veins, vessels, arteries, etc. First Kennedy now Joba? WTH?
If Phil is that close to tears, he really does need to go down….maybe be completely reworked. It sounds as if he’s completely lost his confidence. I won’t give up on him – I still believe he’ll be a very good pitcher. He’s been rushed twice already in his career – Yankees have done an extremely poor job with him. He needs to rebuild his shattered confidence in AAA. He was working on pitches down there – his cutter, curve, change – he wasn’t just trying to dominate. Phil will be well served doing that again down there……
If this is how the Yankees develop their young pitchers, then that’s scary.
pat
May 9th, 2009 at 10:29 pm
randyl
Don’t pitchers usually shag flies?
————————————————————
You gotta be pretty quick to shag a fly.
OK…that was cheap and tacky, but, that’s the kind of game it was.
Phil was probably so shocked about his terrible start that is why he looked like that. He is the Babe Ruth of the minors and then gets smacked around up here. Hopefully he looks better in his next start against Toronto otherwise I would expect Aceves to get the call for his next one. Maybe with the off day they can skip his start.
DJ – Hughes’ performance had nothing to do with whomever was catching him. That’s per both Girardi and Hughes. On the postgame interviews, they each attributed things to Hughes’ “pushing” the ball instead of throwing, with resulting pitches getting up and flat – that’s according to Joe G. I don’t know enough about pitching to say, but they each kept referring to Phil not making the needed mechanical adjustment.
This is where a veteran catcher may be able to calm a young pitcher down and get his head back in the game.
who’s next after the tomko experiment. luis vizcaino is looking for a job
Hughes can’t put anyone away… Kennedy had that problem too.
And where has his command gone?
Hard to believe that the guy who won our only playoff game in 07 and looked ready for stardom is basically back at square one. Stuff doesn’t look the same either.
He can’t take his lumps up here. He also is pitching with 0 confidence.
“vizcaino is looking for a job”
Nope. He was signed by the Tribe.
That cutter is looking very good. Sadly, it is the only pitch he can command and only + pitch at the moment.
FB velocity is ehhh, curve is inconsistent. doesn’t have a change obviously. doesn’t have command of anything
how did this guy look so good in the playoffs and in the minors when he is such a work in progress?
my cuz & I were just talking about that. Hughes looked like he wanted to break down. Almost Shaky. I get why people are judging Hughes and being hard on him. The guy is only 22 years old! Its too early he has to develop. Yeah he had a tough night but, the D wasn’t exactly spectacular. He’s capable of being a Major League pitcher. Stop jumping on him.
would love bowa back here,he knows baseball
giradi is an idiot
Why would we want Bowa as the manager?
Let Tony Pena be the guy.
Though I would much prefer Bowa to Bobby V.
Oh please, Hughes isn’t going back down to Scranton.
Who’s going to take his place in the rotation? Kei Igawa?
Let Hughes go back out there his next turn and work through it. Until Wang comes back, Hughes is part of the rotation.
If Yankee fans don’t let their youngsters battle through struggles the Yanks as an organization will remain far far far behind the Rays and Red Sox in player development for the foreseeable future.
It’s better for Hughes to take his lumps and learn from them instead of never letting him outside again after skinning his knee on the playground.
“Nope. He was signed by the Tribe.”
My bad he will sign with Cleveland but the hold up is whether to give him a major league or minor leagye deal. All but a certainty either way.
This team doesn’t need a shake-up it needs better personnel and that is on Cashman who has put together a joke.
Selena don’t rat out her sources!
Maybe Larry Bowa back as a coach? Not necessarily the manager or managerial candidate.
I think Hughes sounded regretful and reflective but in a good way.
billy-
thanks . i’m sure he’s remembered well by a lot of people still in the game.
Yanks got rid of Hughes best best,his slider
His fastball is straighter thans Farnsworth’s, he cant spot his curveball, what’s he doing in the bigs?
They need to send Hughes down to Tampa and just re-do him from scratch like they did to Roy Halladay
He looks like a completely different pitcher. Stuff is underwhelming, he has no command of anything, and clearly his confidence is shot.
“Maybe Larry Bowa back as a coach? Not necessarily the manager or managerial candidate.”
Swish showed last year he didn’t do well with a fiery coach. I can’t see these guys especially Jeter doing any better for a coach that tries to break them before building them up. Bowa is not the answer.
I wouldn’t be shocked if Aceves gets Hughes’ next start.
The worst thing that happened was Wang getting hurt so early in the season so they had to bring up Hughes. Aceves was also pitching really bad at AAA to start the season maybe if he was better he probably would of got the call instead of Hughes. Hughes was developing his pitches and progressing well and it would of been nice to leave him down there longer. He needs to develop another pitch because it takes him way too many pitches to put someone way. They can’t keep him in the majors if he isn’t going to give them any length at all that was his problem last year also. 4 innings last time and 2 innings is not going to cut it. If his next start is poor then he needs to go to AAA.
dodgers released sturtze.sturtze is a classic type of cashman pick up
Yanks got rid of Hughes best best,his slider
His fastball is straighter thans Farnsworth’s, he cant spot his curveball, what’s he doing in the bigs?
————-
Uh, not exactly.
Hughes scrapped his slider because he never threw the pitch and instead he developed the cutter – which has turned out to be a very very good pitch for him.
And in case you didn’t know, Hughes is in the bigs because Wang is on the DL.
I don’t know if anyone would agree but, maybe they should use Hughes as a reliever and develop him that way. Like they did with Joba. He doesn’t need to go back AAA he has already proved he can pitch there.
The “tough love” approach will work with Melky/Cano
The other players won’t respond to it though. You think Jeter or A-Rod are taking crap from someone like Bowa?
Swisher didn’t respond to a firey manager. And Burnett will get into many run-ins with a guy like that.
You can’t bring in a guy like that to an accomplished team full of veterans and expect it to end well. They don’t need to be “fired up”, they need to execute. A calming manager like Pena could get them to relax is needed more than a guy like Bowa.
GF, in theory I agree with you, but Phil was never supposed to be up here this soon. He’s up here because of a crisis (yet again) in our rotation. You know I’m a huge fan of his and I will never waiver in my belief that he will be an outstanding pitcher………..but there is a reason why he was not even considered for the rotation this year. He was working on his pitches in AAA, not trying to dominate – that’s what he needs to do back there again. Also, I didn’t see Phil’s interview, but if he was really as upset as people are making it sound……that’s not good. I mean, upset being on the verge of tears isn’t good. That sounds like a real crisis of confidence and I don’t see how it’s a good thing to let him take his lumps and get hammered up here.
I wouldn’t mind Hughes as a reliever. They did it to Billingsly, why not Hughes?
CB suggested that too.
Hughes stuff was not good.
Young pitchers routinely get in trouble with walks because they nibble around the strike zone.
But with Hughes, he has no control and when he does throw strikes, he gets absolutely hammered.
Hughes is inching dangerously close to Homer Bailey territory.
“Swish showed last year he didn’t do well with a fiery coach. I can’t see these guys especially Jeter doing any better for a coach that tries to break them before building them up. Bowa is not the answer.”
I’m sure Robbie would be happy. If I’m not mistaken I think I read somewhere that Robbie & Alex had a good relationship with Bowa
They need to send Hughes down to Tampa and just re-do him from scratch like they did to Roy Halladay
He looks like a completely different pitcher. Stuff is underwhelming, he has no command of anything, and clearly his confidence is shot.
———–
Some people are brain dead. It was Hughes who went to Detroit and shut down a very dangerous lineup.
A bad outing doesn’t signify that he needs to be sent away for a complete overhaul. It simply means he had a bad outing.
Besides, who are they going to fill his spot? Igawa?
They need Hughes in the majors right now. Let him work through it.
After Girardi joined Yankees, there is just injury ater injury. I really wonder whether it’s Girardi, coaches, trainers or Cashman’s fault?
“Don’t pitchers usually shag flies?”
i think yankee pitchers had better stick to pitching . when eating they shouldn’t even cut their own meat.
If Pettitte didn’t back off his contract demands this winter, then Hughes would be the 5th pitcher in the rotation. He had the best spring of the other candidates this year and would have been in the rotation. Aceves/Giese/Kennedy etc. had awful springs.
Just a reminder:
If you make up “breaking news” on this blog, you’ll be banned. If you impersonate people, you’ll be banned. If you post stupid nonsense, you’ll be banned.
It’s zero tolerance. Do not act foolishly. The regulars here was to talk baseball and act with civility. If you want to join in, welcome to you. If not, hit the bricks.
“Hughes is inching dangerously close to Homer Bailey territory.”
Sadly, I agree. Even last year, he had a good 1st start against Toronto, then things spiraled out of control. Same thing this year so far. He doesn’t look like the 2007 guy at all, stuff or mound presence-wise.
I would think he will get 1 more start and if it isn’t good and gives them no length then Aceves will get his next start. If Wang is really 3 weeks away then they would only need 2 starts from Aceves. What a mess this team is.
Hughes confidence wasn’t shot after or during the Detroit game or in his 2nd start. Why would it be now? Detroit isn’t exactly a pop-gun offense and neither was the Boston and Baltimore offenses. He got beat because of lack of control. You gotta love the armchair sports psychologists.
“I don’t know if anyone would agree but, maybe they should use Hughes as a reliever and develop him that way. Like they did with Joba. He doesn’t need to go back AAA he has already proved he can pitch there.”
Thats what I’ve been saying why not? They did it with Joba why not Hughes? It would develop him nicely and get him prepared. There is no reason for him to be in AAA anymore he knows how to pitch there
Funny thing is Hughes actually didn’t pitch poorly until the last two batters when he clearly lost his confidence. He was 0-2 on every batter before that point and the first few hits were weak “seeing eye” singles. He was also betrayed by very poor defense. The homer was just good hitting. Watch the replays, the pitch Huff hit out was nasty.
It’s a shame he couldn’t just get out of that inning and get a chance to regroup.
Please – he’s 22 years old. I don’t want to hear Yankee fans clamoring for home grown players. Developing those players means dealing with growing pains – if you can’t handle those, then be content with aging vets. Homer Bailey…..lol
“Aceves/Giese/Kennedy etc. had awful springs.”
What are you talking about? Aceves and Kennedy weren’t “awful” at all. If anything I thought they progressed some.
“when eating they shouldn’t even cut their own meat.”
LOL. Sporks for everyone too.
When they showed Swisher spidermanning the outfield wall to high five fans and he fell on his butt the other night, I cringed.
Any pitcher can have one good outing.
Remember all the scrubs who had good outings against us over the years to never be heard from again?
Can’t judge anything from that Detroit start.
Hughes will be fine. Get off his back.
Pete – did you see his hand?
IF it’s not much worse than a little blister, then one start at most for Joba if he misses anything at all.
IF that’s all it is.
IF it’s more of a ploy to move him to the bullpen, it’s a huge mistake.
Perhaps Hughes shouldn’t be here yet, except for the Wanger being on the DL (and having a rough start) but Hughes did impress the first time out. There’s definitely something there, maybe it’s just not fully polished yet. It’s still only 3 ML starts this season so far, which is far from defining his career.
“I’m sure Robbie would be happy. If I’m not mistaken I think I read somewhere that Robbie & Alex had a good relationship with Bowa”
Bowa a different guy here than he was in Philly and that prolly added about 10 years to his life. Look at him as the manager of the Phillies and it looked like he was going to stroke out.
F7 TD
May 9th, 2009 at 11:00 pm
Any pitcher can have one good outing.
Remember all the scrubs who had good outings against us over the years to never be heard from again?
Can’t judge anything from that Detroit start.
————————————————————
But, you sure as Hell can make a judgement from one bad one, right?
Also, I didn’t see Phil’s interview, but if he was really as upset as people are making it sound……that’s not good. I mean, upset being on the verge of tears isn’t good. That sounds like a real crisis of confidence and I don’t see how it’s a good thing to let him take his lumps and get hammered up here.
———-
Betsy, that’s crazy.
He’s young and he didn’t look good. He’s upset and he should be. But it’s a real stretch to suggest he’s completely lost his confidence and needs to go back down to Scranton for a makeover.
There is nobody to replace him and that’s the bottom line. He can’t learn how to pitch in the majors by pitching to minor leaguers.
Taking lumps is part of the developmental process and the Yanks don’t have the luxury of seven starters with lights out stuff to replace someone who struggles a couple of times.
The curse of Pavano? He left his mark on the team, and now no one can stay healthy.
Aceves had a 4.60 ERA this Spring
Kennedy had a 5.91 ERA this Spring
Giese has a 6.48 ERA this Spring
Hughes had a 2.19 ERA this Spring
He would have been in the rotation if Andy didn’t come back.
Aceves can’t replace Hughes?
Good points, GB – I was just going by what people were saying about the post-game. I still think he needs to be sent down……..
“Sadly, I agree. Even last year, he had a good 1st start against Toronto, then things spiraled out of control. Same thing this year so far. He doesn’t look like the 2007 guy at all, stuff or mound presence-wise.”
Sorry but Hughsie was great at AAA. Last night, SWB scored 7 against Bailey in the first two innings. Hughes was just rushed, three starts this year after they tried to break him down and add a pitch.
“Good points, GB – I was just going by what people were saying about the post-game. I still think he needs to be sent down……..”
There isn’t the arms. Aceves might be able to start but that said there is not a long man. I don’t see DFAing Steven Jackson.
I realize the Yanks look bad most of the time and that it is easy to be concerned, but man, why do so many people mistake a bad night for a bad athlete? Phil Hughes was awful tonight, but two weeks ago he was phenomenal. So, in two weeks his mechanics have fallen apart and he needs to be sent down / put in the bullpen / re-built? It defies logic to think that way. I react emotionally to these games like anybody, but imagine if you were judged based on one day of output in your job. How many careers would you have gone through by now?
Good points, GB – I was just going by what people were saying about the post-game. I still think he needs to be sent down……..
———-
Sent down for whom?
There is nobody else.
And, Betsy, to back up Giuseppe…you’re taking someone’s remark about Phil “looking like he wanted to cry” and projecting a psychosis on him. Why?
“Sent down for whom?
There is nobody else.”
Word
There is no such thing as “rushed”. He won a playoff game in 2007 and had a lights out September. He was the #1 prospect in baseball in 06. He has been putting up great numbers in AAA the last 3 years.
You cannot script a perfect incorporation into MLB. It is a product of timing and circumstance. You may be asked to fill in for an injured starter, you may be asked to pitch out of the pen, you may be asked to skip a level. Timing isin’t always going to be opportunistic.
When an opportunity is handed to you, you need to run with it. You don’t know when it may be. Look at Cervelli and Ramiro Pena.
Betsy
May 9th, 2009 at 11:04 pm
Good points, GB – I was just going by what people were saying about the post-game. I still think he needs to be sent down……..
————————————————————
He’ll get at least 3 more starts, before they do anything. At worst, they let him work his issues out in the pen and get rid of Tomko or Ramirez. He can fill the long innings once or twice a week if needed. They’ll know by the 3rd inning whether they need him and it will give him time to warm up properly. Eiland and Girardi can then better monitor his progress. Scranton won’t be much good. They know he can pitch there.
Hughes was just rushed, three starts this year after they tried to break him down and add a pitch.
———–
Hughes wasn’t rushed. Wang went on the DL and Hughes was the sixth starter in the pecking order.
It’s not like they just decided to promote Hughes because he pitched well. He was needed because Wang went down.
Hughes will go back to Scranton – no matter how bad or well he pitches over his next few starts – when Wang returns from the DL.
GF, I’ll lay off on the confidence thing since I didn’t actually see the interview……
The end result is that the Yankees lost yet again – they just can’t keep a good thing going.
“He was 0-2 on every batter before that point and the first few hits were weak “seeing eye” singles.”
The worst part about that is that Hughes doesn’t have a put away pitch and his fastball is straight and 91 mph. That isn’t gonna cut it.
May 9th, 2009 at 9:27 pm
Instead of hoping for firing girardi, eiland, or long,,
how about we start hoping for a miraculous recovery for George Steinbrenner,
the way
Bruschi, David Arias, Gammons, Lester, Jerry Remy will, Kessel, Pierce all recovered and
the way
Lidle and Munson didnt.
I wanted to clarify something for GreenBeret in case he thinks I am a Red sox fan. I wished all of the above Boston athletes/figures ill will in their recoveries from various health issues, which obviously did not work out well for me.
However, Munson, Lidle, and I forgot Murcer all passed away with relative ease. I just hope that George Steinbrenner can fight whatever he’s got with the desire and heart he treated the Yankees with during his tenure.
Paww wittle Dawm Dimaggio and Len Bias and Reggie Lewis, and let me not forget Ted Williams frozen head. They’ll be immortalized by espn for the rest of time, while Munson, Lidle, and Murcer go by the waistside.
“When an opportunity is handed to you, you need to run with it. You don’t know when it may be. Look at Cervelli and Ramiro Pena.”
Pitching is an entirely different animal. Just talk to any sports pshysiologist. There are as many moving parts for a pitcher as any athlete. Factor in adding new pitches, etc. Hughes was rushed.
To follow your logic, we should call up every prospect and they should just seize the opportunity? OMG what a clown.
“Scranton won’t be much good. They know he can pitch there.”
Exactly GB.
Hughes was not rushed.
Why do people keep saying that?
Pasqua, good points – I feel rather silly now, lol. I’ll catch the interview myself later on YES.com and judge for myself.
GF, I guess you’re right – there is no one else to take Phil’s place….
The worst part about that is that Hughes doesn’t have a put away pitch and his fastball is straight and 91 mph. That isn’t gonna cut it.
———-
Uh, you would be wrong – although not exactly shocking.
Go take a look at Gameday and you’ll see Hughes was throwing his fastball in the 93-94 MPH range.
He was hitting 95 MPH at times against the Tigers.
Dave B
May 9th, 2009 at 11:09 pm
When an opportunity is handed to you, you need to run with it. You don’t know when it may be. Look at Cervelli and Ramiro Pena.
————————————————————
When you have a pitcher that tossed a game like Sabathia did last night, it’s not a real challenge to look good as a catcher. He didn’t look so good tonight, though. He doesn’t have the experience above A level ball to nurse a pitcher through an inning like tonight’s. Could a Posada or Molina have done it? Hard to say, but, they’d have been out tio the mound after every pitch if necessary, giving him a boot in the rear end.
And yet somehow Phil Hughes got outs in Detroit.
So he had a put-away pitch there? But it’s gone forever now?
Lets face the facts.
1. Phil is a phake…He was invented by Cashman and does not have the head to be in the bigs no less NY.
2. Joba belongs in the pen. he also does not have the head of a starter. He wants to blow away batters, which is only possible in short relief. He gave up 4 runs, was losing, then started to throw hard and was fist pumping putting them away…Overthrew and now cannot throw in his regular rotation.
Sorry folks…phace the phacts….phil is not the phranchise. Joba not a starter.
And yet somehow Phil Hughes got outs in Detroit.
So he had a put-away pitch there? But it’s gone forever now?
————-
Exactly.
A bad outing and the kid’s career is over or will never be the pitcher people thought he would be.
Good grief. Some people don’t have an ounce of perspective at all.
Matt Desalvo threw 7 innings 1 run against Seattle in 2007 in his ML debut.
Clippard shut down the Mets on Sunday Night ESPN in his debut
“Go take a look at Gameday and you’ll see Hughes was throwing his fastball in the 93-94 MPH range.
He was hitting 95 MPH at times against the Tigers.”
I saw 91-92 tops on YES, guess I shouldn’t trust their gun. Also my first statement was still valid he can’t command his breaking ball enough for it to be effective.
“mickey07
May 9th, 2009 at 11:21 pm
Lets face the facts.
1. Phil is a phake…He was invented by Cashman and does not have the head to be in the bigs no less NY.
2. Joba belongs in the pen. he also does not have the head of a starter. He wants to blow away batters, which is only possible in short relief. He gave up 4 runs, was losing, then started to throw hard and was fist pumping putting them away…Overthrew and now cannot throw in his regular rotation.
Sorry folks…phace the phacts….phil is not the phranchise. Joba not a starter.”
This must be Fatcessa?
“He gave up 4 runs, was losing, then started to throw hard”
Best part of your comment. Then he started throwing fastball. slider, curve, change.
I saw 91-92 tops on YES, guess I shouldn’t trust their gun. Also my first statement was still valid he can’t command his breaking ball enough for it to be effective.
———-
He seemed to command it well enough against the Tigers about 11 days ago.
Did the Red Sox or Orioles go all Superman 2 on Hughes and zap all of his powers away from him?
get a new manager he is in way over his head.
I wouldn’t trust anyone on here to be the GM of even my MLB09 team.
Pitching good in 2 or 3 games does not make you a major leaguer or prove that you can pitch here. Anyone can pitch good for a couple of games. Being consistent, keeping the damage small and giving the team length is what they need to see. Also an out pitch would help. Even Damon said he needs to learn to minimize the damage in that inning. 3 runs ok, but 8 is way too many. Saying he is only 22 and you have to take the growing pains is nice and all but the Yanks or any team in MLB can’t keep him on the team if he can’t give them length. That is now 6 innings total in his last 2 starts. It is not possible especially with Joba also in the rotation who will probably only give them 5-6 innings.
“Even Damon said he needs to learn to minimize the damage in that inning”
Love Damon… always brutally honest and wants to win so badly. Doesn’t sugarcoat anything,
Captain,
Exactly. Great post.
Lets face the facts.
1. Phil is a phake…He was invented by Cashman and does not have the head to be in the bigs no less NY.
2. Joba belongs in the pen. he also does not have the head of a starter. He wants to blow away batters, which is only possible in short relief. He gave up 4 runs, was losing, then started to throw hard and was fist pumping putting them away…Overthrew and now cannot throw in his regular rotation.
Sorry folks…phace the phacts….phil is not the phranchise. Joba not a starter.
====================================
I’m just surprised you did not spell fist as phist and folks as pholks. Oh and you missed a “fact”
Hughes will be fine. Just because this is his 3rd season of being a bag of garbage and so far he hasn’t shown me @@#%, doesn’t mean Cashman shouldn’t have swapped him for one of the greatest pitchers of our time.
Phil is a great guy and a good .. ahem… “prospect.” That trumps a 1st ballot hof’er anyday. I mean we would’ve had to throw in Melky and maybe even Kennedy to make it happen.
I love Cashman. Which helpd me overlook the fact that he clearly doesn’t understand ball.
Maybe for his next trick he’ll trade 3 pitchers and one of our best prospects for an xavier and a lefty who can’t hack it in the american league. At least we got something useful back in the Sheffield trade.
Hey Bri, just because you look like a nerd, doesn’t mean you’re smart.
AND THE GOOD NEWS JUST KEEPS ON COMING!!!
I think it was just as much the sloppy defense as hughes that blew this game way out of our reach. It seemed like hughes was going to do well and then, the O’s had a series of very lucky placed hits that just squeezed by the infielders and added some horrible defense into the mix as well. So of course, hughes started getting too fine with his pitches and im sure he was getting real frustrated as well which messed with his stuff a bit. I dont put this all on hughes. We are just lucky that ridiculous throw by swisher didnt smack hughes in the head and give him a concussion. What the heck was with that throw?? It looked like swish was aiming for the upper deck. Hopefully, we win tomorrow because we have a day off on monday and then, we are going up against halladay on tuesday. Halladay has 6 wins already and has really turned it around after a slow start to just dominate.
How did Lester get shelled today? Oh, he doesn’t have a put-away pitch. He must be done.
LOST doesn’t finish its season until Wednesday but some of you are already there.
Got back from the game about an hour ago.
Hughes just couldn’t throw his breaking stuff for strikes and therefore abandoned it to try and get ahead, making him predictable.
That’s all it was; he needs to forget this and move on. When Wang returns, he should go back down and continue to work on his secondary stuff. This isn’t like last year.
Hank and Stick wanted Santana
Perhaps they know a little more than Cashman does about pitching
I am going to give CC until the ASB to decide whether I am still upset over not trading Hughes for Santana. If CC is 9-4 with a 3.00 ERA I will be okay with it, 6-8 with a 5.00 not so much.
I have no expectations for the Burnett/Halladay game on Tuesday
Doc owns us and Burnett will be full of emotions and nerves when he goes back to his old stomping grounds against his former teammates and facing his mentor… I could see him having a rough start as a result.
We really need to steal tomrorow’s game. I hope Joba is healthy.
That’s very generous of you, Al.
“Good points, GB – I was just going by what people were saying about the post-game. I still think he needs to be sent down……..”
Why Betsy? If he’s sent down who takes his place?
Do you honestly think that Igawa or Aceves give the Yankees a better chance to win than Hughes??
All pitchers don’t get comfortable throwing 3 pitches, especially a changeup… Burnett never did. Hasn’t Wang been working on one for 3 years too?
The pitching coaches can pound the change-up into Phil’s head as much has they want, but it is up to him as to how much he trusts it. Burnett has a good changeup but never uses it despite the fact it would make him so much better and help him get through starts when he doesn’t have command of the curve.
And it’s not like he is in AAA and told to throw 40 changeups. He is treating AAA like a normal game like he would up here. He wants to do well to come up here too. The results matter to him, so he is going to use the pitches he is most comfortable with down there too.
Was at the game tonight. For those of you wondering, Hughes did indeed look bad, but it looked (to me, anyway) to be mechanical. At the start of the second, after he got 3 ground balls that should have been outs if Robbie hadn’t been positioned shallow for whatever reason, and Tex hadn’t let one slip under his glove, it looked to me like he was letting his arm fly open, and it was leading to his command issues, and why everything was getting hammered. I don’t think tonight was a talent issue, I think it was mechanical. Hopefully, they watch some tape and he fixes what was wrong, or at least get his confidence up so that he doesn’t fall apart every time his defense lets him down.
Anyone who wants to give up on a kid this young, who clearly has talent, is missing the bigger picture.
“May 9th, 2009 at 11:54 pm
All pitchers don’t get comfortable throwing 3 pitches, especially a changeup… Burnett never did. Hasn’t Wang been working on one for 3 years too?
The pitching coaches can pound the change-up into Phil’s head as much has they want, but it is up to him as to how much he trusts it. Burnett has a good changeup but never uses it despite the fact it would make him so much better and help him get through starts when he doesn’t have command of the curve.
And it’s not like he is in AAA and told to throw 40 changeups. He is treating AAA like a normal game like he would up here. He wants to do well to come up here too. The results matter to him, so he is going to use the pitches he is most comfortable with down there too.”
That’s pretty interesting. However, when Hughes gets sent down when Wang comes back, I think it has to be with the understanding that he works on developing the change down there.
I think part of Hughes’ problem tonight was similar to Pettitte’s problem against the Rays (at least in the first); he threw too many strikes. In the second he was going 0-2 on batters, and then throwing another strike (especially that curve inside.. pretty sure that’s what got hit out when it drifted towards the bottom-middle of the plate). He was pitching to the strike zone; he wasn’t trying to expand the zone and get hitters to chase.
Every batter seemed to be 0-2 and then hit the third pitch that would have been a strike. He also didn’t really seem to throw the curve until he had two strikes, and then he usually threw it, which made him very predictable. Fastball/cutter, fastball/cutter, curve.
I don’t think his problem was that he didn’t have an out pitch, I just don’t think he was doing a good job pitching to the count and having hitters get themselves out. You can’t throw every single pitch into the zone without getting hurt. When you get 0-2, throw the breaking ball down and in, or something just off the outside corner, or brush the hitter off the plate; don’t try to throw a pitch they’re sitting on. Maybe I just misread the situation; I am by no means a pitching instructor.
“How did Lester get shelled today? Oh, he doesn’t have a put-away pitch. He must be done.
LOST doesn’t finish its season until Wednesday but some of you are already there.”
Stop making so much sense Nick. It’s not fitting in with the rest of the doomsday scenarios around here.
Someone sent me an interview that Will Carroll did on WEEI this week about PEDs in general and Manny in particular that I just listened to.
Carroll said there are currently 4 MLB players who are authorized to take synthetic testosterone under the use exemption. I had heard about use exeptions for ritalin and other ADHD drugs but had never heard testosterone mentioned before.
Makes sense there might be players legitimately in need of it but it surprised me when he first said it.
Sabremet,
Exactly. His changeup has not improved at all in 3 years. What is he working on down there? Nothing— he is pitching, not ‘working on things’.
You can’t tell a competitor to forfeit the game and treat it like an instructional league. He might throw a couple more changeups down there than he would up here. It’s not like that is all he is working on. He is pitching normally.
His command the last 2 starts has completely abandoned him. That is the problem. That was supposed to be his calling card.
Sabrmet, Phil was working on the curve, cutter and change down in AAA – it wasn’t all about results with him. He got results because he’s a very talented kid up against probably not so talented kids…. I guess the Yankees really don’t have a choice but to throw him out there again, but as soon as Wang comes back, it’s back down to AAA for Phil where he can continue to work on those pitches.
His pitching today was very predictable. That’s why he couldn’t put away hitters with 2 strikes. He also has spotty command of his breaking stuff. He threw the cutter too much. That leads to high pitch counts because of how often it gets fouled off… that happened against the Chi Sox last year when he only went 4 innings. Wasn’t the case today, but this time the ball was getting put in play.
He threw a lot of hittable pitches on 0-2, but the Huff HR was a good pitch.
With the Yankees, “should be able to pitch” has a funny way of turning into “see you in two weeks.”
EXACTLY RIGHT.
3 words from Girardi you don’t want to hear: “day-to-day”.
That usually means a month….or more.(i.e. Bruney)
http://bombersbeat.mlblogs.com/
Fans are unbelievable, sheesh.
Saw A.J. Burnett on the way into the ballpark for the second consecutive day, signing autographs. Yesterday, a ‘fan’ in a Yankees cap was absolutely wearing Burnett out, targeting his contract and his performance to date. Really, don’t the Yankees have bigger problems than Burnett right now? Something tells me that guy didn’t get his autograph.
Betsy – Where does it say that he threw the change-up a lot in AAA? Any quotes from Nardi, Aldred etc.?
It hasn’t improved since 2006, so obviously something is not right.
I am going to give CC until the ASB to decide whether I am still upset over not trading Hughes for Santana. If CC is 9-4 with a 3.00 ERA I will be okay with it, 6-8 with a 5.00 not so much.
———-
HA HA HA HA HA HA
Chad Jennings is a fantastic beat writer, but I doubt he knows how often Hughes is throwing a changeup, unless he got quotes from Scott Aldred.
Danny, just from reading Chad Jennings and also reading Phil’s quotes……..
Hughes knows nothing is guaranteed. Even if the Yankees told him only or work on things and forget results, I doubt he will. I also find it hard to believe that the Yankees would tell him that.
He wants to get to the big leagues ASAP. He’s going to do what he has to in order to get here.
Unless you think he is going to throw the change-up on 0-2 with runners on base, then it wouldn’t have helped him much today.
Today was about the command of his breaking stuff, thus the inability to put anyway away.
And it’s not like he is in AAA and told to throw 40 changeups. He is treating AAA like a normal game like he would up here. He wants to do well to come up here too. The results matter to him, so he is going to use the pitches he is most comfortable with down there too.
————
You are wrong. Hughes was throwing his changeup down in Scranton quite a bit because Scott Aldred and Nardi Contreras insisted on it.
Check out the archives of Chad Jennings’ blog because he talked about Hughes throwing his changeup more often a number of times.
Hughes change up has not progressed in 3 years and he very rarely has even shown it at the ML level
What the heck is he working on?
come back soon wang, please
Hughes change up has not progressed in 3 years and he very rarely has even shown it at the ML level
What the heck is he working on?
———-
He’s been on the shelf a lot the last two years.
Also, the cutter he developed late last year (while scrapping the slider) and the different look of his curveball took precedence over the changeup.
That changeup is still a work in progress. He’ll go back down to Scranton when Wang comes back and continue to work on it.
“According to Girardi, Chamberlain was flipping a ball underhanded during BP when a blood vessel burst in his right thumb.”
Is this an injury or condition you hear about often with pitchers?
On the face of it, it doesn’t seem like Joba was doing anything that would suggest he’d burst a vessel…”flipping a ball underhanded” sounds relatively innocuous…
Hope it’s not something more serious…
I don’t know if you guys saw the still photograph they showed of Joba on YES, but his thumb looked pretty bad…
Let’s wish for the best…
Go Yanks!
If the Yanks lose the Baltimore finale and then get embarrassed by Toronto, Girardi and Eiland are done.
We need to give the youngsters some space to make mistakes.
Some safety to try things and fail.
They will not grow without experience.
The mountain cannot be climbed without small steps that yield to strides.
If the Yanks lose the Baltimore finale and then get embarrassed by Toronto, Girardi and Eiland are done.
———-
Thanks, Boss.
But this regime doesn’t run things that way and panicking is the dumbest thing they could do.
I don’t recall this team doing a whole lot of winning when they were firing managers on a yearly basis.
lester doesn’t have an out pitch? he seemed to have a really good out pitch against the yankees the other night
yes… it is Girardi’s fault that Hughes gave up 8 runs in the 2nd inning.
Did Girardi look like a good manager yesterday?
All about the starting pitching. When we get it, then Girardi and Eliand look good, the team looks like they have “heart”, and all these other silly things fans look for.
Tomorrow if Joba pitches a gem and we score some runs, Girardi will “save” his job and the team will look great again.
Cmon… This is BS… It’s like we’ve become the Red Sox.
no offense to everyone here but hughes is two years older than me, and i couldnt imagine performing at that level at all. the kid had one bad start give him a break, hes 22 years old. we dont have patience with the kids in the system, and the same people clamoring for them are the same people ready to write them off after they dont look a nolan ryan. there are going to be growing pains. get over it, we will be fine.
when did athletes become pussies? i heard nolan ryan has a bruise once…but he gave it an uppercut and it shut the hell up. just pitch.
Jeez, you Hughes bashers need to get a grip. The kid is 22 years old. Give him a break. If he takes two more years to find himself, he could still have a 15-year career! Remember, he didn’t rush himself up here and he didn’t set such high expectations for himself, the organization did.
Imagine if Zack Greinke had been in the Yankee organization. He took a few years to get his stuff together and look at him now. If he’d been a Yankee, I imagine it would have gone done EXACTLY like the Hughes situation.
Sad. Maybe we need a few years out of the playoffs so everyone can get a freakin’ grip.
…AND – Hughes has nothing to “prove” at AAA but there’s plenty for him to LEARN there.
Or, he can learn it at the major league level, but that would require patience from the organization, the media, and the fans. And we know that ain’t gonna happen.
So he belongs at Scranton this year.