The LoHud Yankees Blog

A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


The ethics of cheering

Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on May 16, 2009 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

That ball A-Rod hit today was crushed, a no-doubter off the bat. But would you have rather somebody else won the game?

Here’s why I ask. The Patriots are my favorite team in the NFL and safety Rodney Harrison was one of my favorite players. But when he was suspended for HGH in 2007, I wasn’t sure how I felt.

Taking PEDs is cheating. It impugns the integrity of the game and it’s unfair to those players who perform naturally. It doesn’t matter if “everybody” does it or whether somebody used it once or twice. Right is right and wrong is wrong.

Knowing that Harrison cheated made it tough to root for him. It also led to questions. If he’s doing it, who else was? Tedy Bruschi? Richard Seymour? Tom Brady?

I have no way of knowing. None of us do, really. I’m pretty sure that every time somebody like Harrison, or A-Rod or Manny Ramirez gets caught, there are 50 other athletes who are glad it wasn’t them.

Alex claims he used for three years. But none of us have any idea whether that is actually true or not. There are dozens of performance-enhancing substances out there for which no tests exist. It’s a good step that MLB has a stricter testing program, but let’s not fool ourselves into thinking the sport is clean.

What do we as fans do? What is our right or wrong? If you were in the Bronx today with your son or daughter, what did you tell them?

It stinks, frankly. I’m sort of hoping Rodney Harrison retires because I don’t want to have to think about it every time I watch a game.

Meanwhile, I went back and forth as I wrote my story this afternoon about whether to use the word “steroids” anywhere. I decided not to. I wrote the moment, I wrote the celebration. Some would say that makes me a homer, just another enabler of a false idol. Maybe they’re right. There are no rules about any of this stuff.

Man, what a shot. Yankees win, the Yankees win. Everybody goes home happy.

But did that moment give you pause, if only for a split second? Be honest. I’d be curious to hear what you think because I sure can’t come up with an answer.

 
 

Advertisement

502 Responses to “The ethics of cheering”

  1. Davd A May 16th, 2009 at 9:23 pm

    nope.

  2. adam May 16th, 2009 at 9:27 pm

    I was at the game and neither I or anyone else at the Stadium gave any “second thoughts” to absolutely erupting when A-Rod hit that ball out. In fact, A-Rod got one of the loudest ovations out of everybody when he stepped up to the plate. I think the crowd loves him now more than ever.

  3. Mo May 16th, 2009 at 9:28 pm

    Honestly, I think that due to free agency and the various scandals over the years, fans have come to root for the laundry rather than the people. As long as the team wins, most people dont consider that type of stuff.

  4. Donald L. Mahnken May 16th, 2009 at 9:28 pm

    No. I like Alex Rodriguez because he plays for my favorite team, and helps them win. Him hitting home runs makes me happy.

    Baseball has procedures to deal with rules violations. Unless it’s something that’s *really* morally reprehensible (like hitting your wife or throwing games), I let it go. I’m watching because I like baseball, not to play morality police.

  5. justin May 16th, 2009 at 9:28 pm

    u kno what pete please go take a walk…no i didnt pause ..u knoo y..cause like u said..we dont knoo who is using….so noo i didnt pause if i pause for arod..i would have to pause every time someone hits a homer

  6. carl May 16th, 2009 at 9:30 pm

    Naw I didn’t. I didn’t pause when Giambi hit his two walk-offs for us last year either.

  7. TD May 16th, 2009 at 9:30 pm

    Enjoyed the HR.

    Glad it was Alex who hit it.

  8. Ralph May 16th, 2009 at 9:31 pm

    You tell your kid to root for the laundry, and that New York loves a comeback story. You tell your kid that baseball is just a game; it won’t solve world hunger, cure disease, or make Barney the Dinosaur less evil. You tell your kid to admire the skills ballplayers exhibit, and take caution from the mistakes they make.

    And then you get over it, because there’s a whole world of crap going on outside of that baseball diamond, and who really cares what these guys do outside of the lines besides voyeuristic info-peddlers? Crack of the bat is all I care about. It sounds fine to me.

  9. Larry Of Palm Bay May 16th, 2009 at 9:32 pm

    Pete,

    I guess You and I am in the Minority. I am happy The Yankees won, But if A-*** leads the Yankees to a World Series Championship to me it will be somewhat tainted. Also as you wrote if other players you really like used PEDs it would really stink.

  10. Someone Else May 16th, 2009 at 9:32 pm

    “Honestly, I think that due to free agency and the various scandals over the years, fans have come to root for the laundry rather than the people. As long as the team wins, most people dont consider that type of stuff.”

    I think you hit the nail on the head. Free agency, more than ANYTHING ELSE causes fans to root for the laundry instead of the player.

    I’m a Cardinals fan, along with being a Yankees fan, and one key player of the Cardinals 2004-2006 (a GREAT stretch, btw – they were the best team in baseball in 2004, a great team in 2005, and a mediocre team in 2006, and they won the WS in their last year of contention) was Scott Rolen.

    Now that he’s gone, specifically when I was watching the Yankees vs. Blue Jays games, I don’t give a **** what he does. I’m actively rooting against him. Yet, he was one of my FAVORITE players merely 4 years earlier.

  11. Patrick Bateman May 16th, 2009 at 9:32 pm

    Of course people think about it. They’d be lying if they said they didn’t.

    Before Alex admitted he took something, I was a fan of his and impressed with his skills as a player. Sure he wasn’t the perfect human being in his private life, but that didn’t change how I felt about him as a baseball player. He was an immensely talented individual with a chance to break baseball’s biggest milestone. Just like I was impressed with Manny Ramirez as a player.

    I don’t see these players the same anymore in a broad sense, but A-Rod has never failed a mandatory test. So one can only hope that he’s been playing clean as long as the testing has been in place.

  12. Laura - Win together, strike out alone! May 16th, 2009 at 9:32 pm

    Why would we hesitate to cheer for Alex today? Unless someone comes out with some proof that he juiced before or during this season, the ball he hit today isn’t tainted. And not for nothing, with the talent Alex has, he could have crushed that ball whether he was on something or not. That’s what makes his and Manny’s past use so ridiculous. Neither one of them needed help to be great ballplayers. It would have come naturally.

  13. Ari May 16th, 2009 at 9:32 pm

    I did enjoy a game winning home run. Who doesn’t? I would much rather Texiera had hit it. Definitely conflicted.

  14. Christina May 16th, 2009 at 9:33 pm

    You can’t pause over it as you don’t know who has cheated and who has not. To hold that vendetta solely against A-Rod based on that notion would be unfair. If that is the case, you should pause anytime you see Giambi at the plate or Andy Pettitte on the mound.

  15. JoshWhite May 16th, 2009 at 9:33 pm

    In the moment, I didn’t pause. When I see him, I don’t think about it much, but I can feel it in the back on my mind. I think that goes away. It’s not there when I see Andy on the mound. I think steroids were/are awful for the game but I sometimes I think we shouldn’t blame the users as much. At least, we shouldn’t consider them bad people for it. As trite as Alex has made this sound, it was the culture.

  16. Angel - A tale told by idiots, full of sound and fury - signifying nothing. May 16th, 2009 at 9:33 pm

    Thats a really interesting question, Pete.

    Personally for me, it didn’t. I was wholeheartedly happy for him and especially for the team.

    I’d already decided that holding onto a grudge about this was going to take away from my enjoyment of the games. I won’t let that happen. He’s a Yankee for the next 9 years and I intend to support him as a Yankee. I’m not going to make myself crazy wondering “what if” because honestly, that would mean I’d have to do that about most players. It’s pointless.

    That doesn’t mean that I condone what he did – I don’t. It doesn’t mean I not still a little disappointed in the choices he made, because I am. I really think he didn’t need to do it, and it saddens me that he felt he did. I’m also still more than a little disgusted about how it all became public, and perhaps that helps me able to take this attitude easier.

    It just means that I think he also deserves a chance at redemption. If he proves he doesn’t deserve that chance, well then I will take my licks. But I felt the same way about Andy Pettitte, and Jason Giambi – I don’t intend to treat A-Rod any differently.

  17. dan May 16th, 2009 at 9:33 pm

    No. I was just happy that my team won the game. You know, it can still be that simple.

  18. Fabian May 16th, 2009 at 9:33 pm

    Curious as to why this same piece wasn’t written after an Andy Pettitte victory…

  19. kerouac May 16th, 2009 at 9:33 pm

    I agree with Ralph.

  20. Noreaster May 16th, 2009 at 9:33 pm

    Great post Pete. I totally agree with your feelings. I’d much rather see Jeter or Jorge win it. But, better ARod than the Twins, so what does that say?

  21. djeter220 May 16th, 2009 at 9:35 pm

    Hey Pete, we’ve only got one MLB and we’ve only got one New York Yankees. Just enjoy the games and stop trying to have deep thoughts into things beyond our control or knowledge.

  22. austinmac May 16th, 2009 at 9:35 pm

    I root for,cheer for and pull for everyone who plays for my favorite team of many years.I wish none of the steroid use had occurred, but do I want him to get a key hit and win a game? I have no second thoughts of that. I do have a son-a baseball playing son. I simply tell him to learn from the misery he and the others have experienced.

  23. Kevin S. May 16th, 2009 at 9:35 pm

    To be honest, I’m actually happy that it was Alex. Yes, he cheated, at least in Texas and possibly for longer periods of time (although there is *NO* evidence of this). It saddens me, because he couldn’t have been the One Clean Hero, but all that really showed was that he’s just as fallible as the rest. People compare the players of today to the players of the 70s, but listening to those old-timers talk, you realize that there were two types of players back then: those who used greenies, and those who would have also used steroids had they been available. So, while I would have preferred Alex to be clean, it takes a back seat to other priorities, one of which being his success going forward with this team. Given his emotional fragility, I want that crowd to have his back. Hitting walk-offs is the biggest regular-season thing he can do towards that end, and so I absolutely wanted him to do it.

    Pete, you mentioned that Harrison’s positive test made you question whether Tedi Bruschi or Richard Seymour had doped. By the same token, had Mark Teixeira (who came up in that Ranger clubhouse that was a locus for known steroid use) hit it, could we really be sure he’s any cleaner? We can’t.

  24. djsunyc May 16th, 2009 at 9:35 pm

    meanwhile, the past few years, we heard nothing but how cool “the big g” is…

    regardless, the problem is that fans put athletes on a pedestal when they shouldn’t be. and as human beings, they make mistakes. i for one do not care in the slightest whether a guy took roids or not. who doesn’t take a shortcut when offered to get ahead? it’s human nature.

    i watch sports b/c it’s entertainment. should we not appreciate a movie b/c the actors involved do cocaine? i cheer b/c i want the yankees to win.

  25. Fabian May 16th, 2009 at 9:36 pm

    Or while we pushed the Giambi for All Star campaign.

  26. JoshWhite May 16th, 2009 at 9:37 pm

    I think A-Rod is a lot of things, but over all, he’s a good guy deep down. He treats people fairly and with respect and that is something I admire in ball players. I love the Yankees and I love baseball. The only people I ever find myself rooting against are the ones who aren’t respectable (ie Garry Sheffield). -well, those people and the Red Sox, because they suck.

    ;)

  27. Christina May 16th, 2009 at 9:37 pm

    Fabian, because it’s A-Rod, that’s why. One of the best players in the game. The epitomy that in order to be the best you must cheat. Andy Pettitte is not the best pitcher in the game and isnt even close to it.

    But still, as I posted above, if you are going to second guess A-Rod then you have to second guess them all.

  28. Subway Squawkers May 16th, 2009 at 9:37 pm

    I happen to think that fans who liked A-Rod will continue to like him, and those who don’t like him will continue to dislike him for other reasons.

    But if some Yankee fans are not going to cheer for A-Rod because he admitted to steroid use, then I sure hope that they never cheer for admitted HGH user Andy Pettitte as well. And that they didn’t root for BALCO clients Jason Giambi or Gary Sheffield. Or Pudge Rodriguez, who was in the Mitchell Report. Fair is fair.

  29. SJ44 May 16th, 2009 at 9:37 pm

    No and I’ll tell you why.

    You can’t root for teams, players etc, and be a policeman or morality king/queen of the sport at the same time. That’s not the job of the fan.

    That’s up to the people who run the game.

    Some athletes, just like some people on Wall St., the banking industry, corporate America, doctors, lawyers, etc will look to do anything to gain an advantage. Very often, in illegal ways. It happens everyday in every walk of life.

    For example, how many times has Mike Barnicle been nailed for stealing other writers stories and quotes? Yet, folks in the media elite (like Mike Lupica for example), never call him a cheater. He is a cheater. In fact, he has been caught more than once for cheating. Why are the rules different for athletes?

    If one has to watch every sporting event wondering if a player used PED’s, or anything else for that matter, it ruins your sense of enjoyment for the event.

    I don’t think people watch movies and ask which actor/actress is using drugs, had a facelift, boob job, etc.

    Arod did what he did, said he his piece about it and its done.

    If new information is uncovered that shows he has been dishonest about when he used, he will have to face that music. Despite the efforts of a lot of people, no evidence has been brought to light he has been lying about his time of usage.

    Selena Roberts’ book bombed for one reason. Fans don’t care about steroids. Its not THEIR story. Its the media’s story.

    That doesn’t mean one condones cheating. It means that one doesn’t see cheating as the primary act ocurring in sports these days.

    This is one topic where there is a serious disconnect between the fans and the media.

    Pete,

    Not mentioning steroids in the story doesn’t make you a homer. It makes you a guy unwilling in this instance to beat a dead horse.

    That’s not a bad thing.

  30. Peter Abraham May 16th, 2009 at 9:39 pm

    Thanks for the thoughtful discussion. The whole time I was writing this afternoon, I was struggling with the idea.

    So many people – rightfully so – said the press ducked the PED question back in the 90s. So what are we supposed to do now? I have no idea.

    Look, I want the Yankees to win. I want to cover a good team, I want to cover the playoffs and the World Series. It’s a lot more fun to cover a good team. It also benefits me professionally in a dozen ways.

    But as I watched the ball fly over the fence, it made me remember Harrison and the conflict I felt. Just wondered if you guys felt any of the same emotions.

  31. Mike A. May 16th, 2009 at 9:39 pm

    Didn’t think about it at all, never do. I didn’t think about it whenever Giambi hit a homer and I don’t think about it whenever Pettitte throws a pitch.

    I honestly don’t care, but who am I to judge A-Rod? Like none of us have ever done anything that was morally questionable.

  32. gayle May 16th, 2009 at 9:39 pm

    I think we as Yankee fans would look at this issue differently than if you asked a fan of the Twins today.

    Other that how great that we won the only thing I thought about was his hip and not the steroids issue.

    My favorite players have always been based on the team and not necessarily the player, I mean one of my favorite players when the Sixers won their championship was not Dr J or MOses Malone(I mean I liked them just fine) but Marc Iavaroni can you believe it?

    I rooted for Curt Schilling when he was a Phillie but as soon as he left the team so did my likeness of him.

    I just think as a fan you are better off rooting for the team as a whole rather than one player in particular.

  33. grafxkid May 16th, 2009 at 9:40 pm

    i raised my hands in victory as a-rod trotted around the bases because OUR TEAM WON!!! I was actually happy it was alex. like he said a year or two ago: ‘somehow, someway, i just knew it would come down to me.’ it was fun to watch. sorry, pete, i didn’t pause for a second.

  34. Laura - Win together, strike out alone! May 16th, 2009 at 9:40 pm

    Pete should ask the team what they think. Judging from their reaction after he hit it, I have a feeling they weren’t thinking about it either.

  35. Tom in N.J. May 16th, 2009 at 9:40 pm

    Was watching the game with my dad and brother. Both of them hate Alex. Hate him with a passion. However, they love the Yankees. When Alex hit the HR they, to quote my dad, “cheered because the Yankees won”.

  36. Chris A May 16th, 2009 at 9:40 pm

    To be honest with you, it has not crossed my mind until now. What Arod did was wrong, but I have gotten over it.

  37. Thomo May 16th, 2009 at 9:41 pm

    I too have very mixed feelings – while there are rules governing the consequences of using PEDs I simply find it impossible to “cheer” for Alex or any other player in this situation. I know we all make mistakes, but I these players cheat “the game” as much as they cheat themselves by assuming long term health risks. Baseball, more than any other game, is steeped in it’s records. The 500 hr mark was magic – in the 50′s Mickey, Willie and then Hank were so far apart from their peers. Their accomplishments have now been diluted.

  38. TJyankee21 May 16th, 2009 at 9:43 pm

    To be honest I did not think about cheating or steroids when A-Rod hit the home run. I was happy the Yankees won and happy A-Rod hit it since he was struggling since coming back, just like I was happy to see Tex have a big game after he has been struggling. During the game I’m thinking strategy and what I would do as manager; not all the other stuff, just baseball. After the game it may cross my mind but during it I just want to focus on the game.

  39. Enough with the non-stop A-Rod Hate Fest May 16th, 2009 at 9:43 pm

    You have become insufferable lately, Peter. I hope you are proud of yourself.

  40. djsunyc May 16th, 2009 at 9:45 pm

    pete, if you are feeling conflicted, then you aren’t watching sports the way it’s meant to be watched…as entertainment. harrison is not your father, uncle, or cousin. he probably won’t visit you in the hospital if you’re sick or lend you some dollars if you need a hand. there is no need to feel conflicted.

  41. Subway Squawkers May 16th, 2009 at 9:46 pm

    Pete, you wrote:

    “So many people – rightfully so – said the press ducked the PED question back in the 90s. So what are we supposed to do now? I have no idea.”

    Look, I don’t have a problem with anybody in the media questioning whether A-Rod’s homer was legit – that’s the price he will pay for doing steroids. But how about somebody in the media taking the time to find out the other 103 names on the failed test list? Or how about them taking a closer look at Angel Presinal’s other clients? Why should A-Rod be the only guy to pay for baseball’s steroid sins?

  42. djeter220 May 16th, 2009 at 9:46 pm

    Robert’s book did something no one could have expected. It made more people take the side of A-Rod. Seeing how there was nothing of substance in that book showed some people that A-Rod wasn’t the headline so much because he gave them things to talk about, but because they took the things they wanted to talk about. It could happen to any player if the media finds motivation to start digging the way they did with Alex. I think many more people are cheering for him now than were a month or two ago.

  43. Hudson May 16th, 2009 at 9:46 pm

    Taking steroids and other PEDs obviously have negative and long-lasting side effects, but I’ve never heard a good rationale why Lasix and Tommy John surgery are legal, acceptable, and non-controversial. Aren’t these procedures “performance enhancing” to athletes?

  44. djsunyc May 16th, 2009 at 9:46 pm

    i’m sorry, but i don’t get all this mixed feelings stuff. are we not all adults here living in the year 2009? people are out of work, we are at war and people have “mixed feelings”. come on y’all, let’s get a reality check…

  45. Peter Abraham May 16th, 2009 at 9:47 pm

    Enough:

    How is this a hate fest? I’m asking a simple question. 99 percent of the people responded in a intelligent manner because they understood the question. How is that insufferable?

    I would think for a fan of any team in any sport, it’s a legitimate question, particularly for a person with some degree of intelligence.

  46. Laura - Win together, strike out alone! May 16th, 2009 at 9:47 pm

    Has anyone else noticed that Alex is mob-phobic? Whenever there’s a walk-off hit, he mobs the person for like 5 seconds, then runs off to the side and celebrates by himself. He did it Friday with Melky. I think he’s afraid of being injured so he rejoices for a few seconds, then runs to safety. It’s pretty funny to watch.

  47. Tom in N.J. May 16th, 2009 at 9:47 pm

    How does one quantify “cheating”? The players from the 50′s through 2004 ate greenies like candy. Does that take away from their accomplishments and records?

    I’m not trying to dismiss the “steroid” era because I do believe that the players who juiced were wrong to do so; however, I’ve never heard or read anybody explain why ‘roids are bad, but amphetamines are O.K.

  48. Ben May 16th, 2009 at 9:47 pm

    i thought about it but i was glad he did it b/c the guy needs a break..everyone makes mistakes

  49. Frank May 16th, 2009 at 9:48 pm

    Throughout the history of sports, especially baseball, players have cheated to succeed. For these men this is there profession, their livelihood, and for some men they will take any advantage to improve their career. This mirrors what happens in the corporate world, how many times have we seen businessmen cheat? Just like not everyone in the corporate world is a cheat, all athletes are not cheats either. However, we should not be shocked that there are athletes who choose to act unethically to get ahead.

    There have been countless athletes in baseball who have took PEDs, corked bats, used illegal pitches, and conspired with gamblers. Only a handful have been or will be caught. As a fan, I choose to root for my team, but acknowledge that there may be some people on my team that may not be so ethical in their practices. Remember fo us its a game, but for the athletes its a business as well.

  50. Kevin S. May 16th, 2009 at 9:48 pm

    Really, Thomo? Hank has admitted to using greenies. Why is that less reprehensible than using steroids? Both are illegal drugs that allow you in increase your performance.

    As far as cheating the game through drug use goes, I’d say Mantle is far guiltier. Steroids allow you to work out harder and by extension perhaps perform better. Taking them is an endeavor in improving the product and helping the team win more. It’s against the rules, but in a system that rewards winning at all costs, it’s hard to fault somebody for looking for that extra edge. Mantle, however, destroyed his body with his alcohol abuse. He cheated us… cheated us of what further dizzying heights he may have achieved. It’s a testament to his tremendous talent that he had as good of a career as he did, but it should have been better.

  51. The Mad Prince in Pinstripes May 16th, 2009 at 9:49 pm

    I really want to say “Peter, SHUT UP” but instead I’ll just say that the Yankees won, its a team game, and the TEAM won regardless of who hit the ball to win it. Melky did the same thing last night and I was just as pleased.

    Yankees…TEAM…Yankees…NOT JUST ALEX RODRIGUEZ.

  52. Dev 233 May 16th, 2009 at 9:50 pm

    I didn’t cheer today even though we won

    I want to win the RIGHT way, not through PEDS and cheating.

    We won, but I didn’t savor it like I did yesterday’s win. It was kind of a “ehh ok, on to tomorrow” type feeling.

  53. kasey May 16th, 2009 at 9:51 pm

    what a cool post and a great question. posts like this are what make this blog great.

  54. Laura - Win together, strike out alone! May 16th, 2009 at 9:51 pm

    “I would think for a fan of any team in any sport, it’s a legitimate question, particularly for a person with some degree of intelligence.”

    Pete, I’ve long been a critic of how you treat A-Rod, but I agree that your question is a legitimate one. I think you are going to find that people just want the Yankees to win – by any means necessary. A-Rod fans like myself were glad that it was him who did it. Others are just glad we won. I’d be surprised to learn that there was some Yankee fans genuinely upset that we won by an A-Rod HR. If they are, I suggest they go root for another team.

  55. KD PAC 10 May 16th, 2009 at 9:52 pm

    I will root for clean players like Jeter, Damon, Teixeira, Posada, Garner, Cano etc.

    Can’t root for someone who is a cheater like Alex. Happy we won, but not happy for Alex. I can’t be happy with a cheater.

  56. Rich James May 16th, 2009 at 9:52 pm

    For the Yankees to win and be a great team A-Rod has to be good for them..Steroids or not…they can’t win with Ramiro Pena starting 162 games (i don’t care what anyone says)

    So to answer the question, Pete…NOT FOR ONE SECOND!

    Matter of fact…i would rather it be Alex then anyone else!

  57. Betsy May 16th, 2009 at 9:53 pm

    Nope – steroids never once entered my mind. I was jumping up and down when Alex hit the HR – I was thrilled for the team and for him.

  58. GGTM May 16th, 2009 at 9:53 pm

    How do you feel about Giambi’s 4 homeruns in the 2003 post-season?

  59. Betsy May 16th, 2009 at 9:55 pm

    Patrick Bateman, please don’t speak for me and say I’m lying when I said it never entered my min…….

  60. Sore Hammy May 16th, 2009 at 9:55 pm

    Pete – your conflicting thoughts are understandable. But IMO, “Come back” Alex is one of the most compelling stories in sports. Him doing well, and the Yanks winning, is all icing. I cringe whenever he opens his mouth, but boy that swing is fantastic to watch. Despite everything in the past, it’s great to watch A-Rod at the plate.

  61. pfish May 16th, 2009 at 9:56 pm

    There’s no way of knowing whether Alex used steroids before or after those three years in Texas, but I would hope that it’s safe to assume he’s not on them now. So thats why I will root really hard for A-rod. If he suddenly can’t play well, it will look like he built his career on steroids. If he plays like the old A-rod we can infer that either he hasn’t used roids for his whole career or they didn’t help much. So everyone should want Alex to succeed.

  62. Oscar May 16th, 2009 at 9:56 pm

    If we win a championship this year because A-Rod hits a walkoff HR in the bottom of the 9th of game 7 and wins WS MVP… will anyone here actually be happy?

    Well maybe initially, but once the euphoria wears off and we realize that a cheater was the one who helped us win, I think some of us will feel ambivalent about the championship. Do we really want to win on the swing of a cheater?

    I guess if you’re “win by any means necessary” types it is ok. But I’m sure a lot of people will be conflicted knowing a cheater played a huge part in us winning.

  63. Azocar's mole May 16th, 2009 at 9:56 pm

    Am I any less glad that they won? No. But I’d be lying if I said the steroids issue doesn’t take away from it on some level. I work in Massachusetts in a den of Red Sox fans, and I won’t be able to go into work on Monday and really beam about the homer, b/c I know someone will be waiting to burst the balloon with an A-Roid crack. As a fan, I root for the team, of course … but it can be a complicated thing. The players come and go. Some (Mattingly, Mo, Jeter) you love like they are members of your family and hope against hope that they really are the swell guys you imagine them to be. Others come along (Clemens, Kevin Brown, Wade Boggs, Gary Sheffield) and you root for the uniform they are wearing, but you kind of hold your nose while you do it because — let’s face it — they give every indication that they are jerks off the field. Still others may be busted for bad stuff (Giambi, Pettitte), but you’re quick to forgive and forget b/c they seem to be decent guys otherwise. Before the steroids accusations and subsequent admissions by A-Rod, he always fell into a gray area. He always seemed like kind of a self-absorbed, gaffe-prone dope, but in a mostly harmless sort of way. Then the steroids stuff comes out this spring, he gives a couple cringe-inducing press conferences, follows up half-admissions with more silly (and unnecessary)lies and you wish he would just go away. But he won’t. For better or worse, we own him for the next 9 years and the best we can hope for is that, after living through such humiliation this spring, maybe he’ll stop being such a phony, stop saying something stupid every time he opens his mouth, and just get back to playing baseball. But every milestone he hits, should he stay healthy and effective long enough to hit them, will be a reminder of what he did and another reason for it to be in the news. And another reason for fans of the sport to resent him. I firmly believe that if Barry Bonds — as big a jerk as he is — had walked way from the game at 712 homers … never passed the Babe, never passed Aaron, that he wouldn’t be hated nearly as much as he is now. He would have left the fans with some records that still meant something. Maybe someday, some clean player (preferably a Yankee) will come along and take advantage of the right field jet stream to smash 80 homers and wipe out Bonds’ single-season record. Maybe some young player in the game right now can stick around long enough to surpass the career HR totals of Bonds and ARod. But until then, we’re left rooting only for the wins … which, franky, is only half of what makes rooting for baseball fun. The other half is finding a player who catches your imagination and hoping against hope he can do something that makes him immortal. Maybe, just maybe, Jeter could knock out enough hits to pass Pete Rose. And if I ever find out Jeter wasn’t playing on the up and up … I just don’t think I could take it.

  64. teddy May 16th, 2009 at 9:56 pm

    great post pete, this is not hate post. unfortunely we don’t know if arod taking hgh right now. taking roids is cheating, not acceptable.will not catch everybodythe players should be blame, but i hold that hypocrite bud selig accountable, he needs to go. who knows, i know when arod homer i did the joba fist pump. this post is why pete got the best yankee blog

  65. Summer May 16th, 2009 at 9:57 pm

    I’m a fan who is happy enough to watch a baseball game that is exciting and well-played by both teams. I like the fact that A-Rod hit that HR because even though he’s a flawed person who has made a lot of bad decisions, he’s also an amazing baseball player who is helping my team win games, often if a dramatic fashion.

    I’m a fan. I want opportunities to cheer for the guy. If I wanted opportunities to pass moral judgment on him, I wouldn’t be a fan, instead I’d be a sports writer!

  66. Bill from NJ May 16th, 2009 at 9:57 pm

    I’m not going to write a long comment on this thread like I have for most of Peter’s other A-Rod hating rants. I just wanted to point out how desperate a blog subject like this is. Peter has battered this topic to death and has shown he cannot be objective. He gets people all riled up to get website clicks, then throws a comment that is pro-Arod to settle the crowd when they go ballistic. The common trend is getting old fast. Be a real reporter please. Let me know what you think about Jesus Montero when we have 2 catchers out. Tell us about some relievers you think should be here when Veras can’t get a highschooler out. Telling us how much you dispise A-Rod is just obnoxious. If you really want an A-Rod monologue right the Arod Book v2.

  67. justin May 16th, 2009 at 9:57 pm

    so to the people who agree wit pete u guys are saying that …the chapionships in the 90′s are tanted to….cmon..roger..andy..justice..shall i go on..every one has players that used or are using and u will never kno whoo so u cant pause..when arod hits a bomb …..www.ilovearod.com lmaoo…i thinkk pete is sippin on that haterade…because non of this crap was writting after andy won the other night…

  68. Laura - Win together, strike out alone! May 16th, 2009 at 9:58 pm

    “I will root for clean players like Jeter, Damon, Teixeira, Posada, Garner, Cano etc.”

    How do you know who is clean? Here’s a news flash – you don’t.

  69. Andrew May 16th, 2009 at 9:59 pm

    Nope. If you did, I feel bad for you.

    The Selena Roberts book has made ARod into a sympathetic figure, and he’s liked now more than ever.

    Well done, Selena. You have to be a pretty awful person to turn ARod into the victim.

  70. Andrew May 16th, 2009 at 10:00 pm

    And btw, terrible take. Just terrible.

  71. andrew33 May 16th, 2009 at 10:00 pm

    Pete I think it’s a fair question and for the most part, like most people, you give a balanced critique. I’m and unabashed Yankee fan … I’m so happy that Manny is guilty and lets face it – we know who else from that 2004 team is as well. I think Paul Quantrill may want a few “do-over” pitches from that ALCS.

    That said, It certainly crossed my mind when he hit it. The thing is, we are married to Arod for a number of years. I’ve read a few comments on the blog … ok a great number … and hopefully hes finally learned from his mistakes and is turning the page and just letting his play do the talking. Did he do it for more then 3 years, well how does anyone know. I’ll be cheering for him and hopefully once he gets comfortable he has a monster year.

    As you’ve said many times, it makes covering the team easier and his good play makes being a fan easier as the wins flow.

  72. Christina May 16th, 2009 at 10:00 pm

    I think a bigger question is how people are going to feel years down the road when A-Rod is approaching Aaron’s record in which he is earning a ridiculous amount of money for each feat he accomplishes. For now, I think you just have to watch the game and enjoy it for what it is.

  73. AMS223 May 16th, 2009 at 10:00 pm

    i gave it ZERO thought…He is a Yankee and as long as he is in Pinstripes I will support him. Just like I supported Giambi when he would hit a HR, and Pettitte when he pitches a gem. I never recall you asking this question for the Big G, so why A-Rod?

  74. Sal May 16th, 2009 at 10:00 pm

    A-Rod is irrelevant to me.

    He is a cheater and he is not going to be the clean HR king or regarded as the best player ever. He will be looked at in the same light as Bonds.

    He may get into the HOF by default, but he is pretty much irrelevant now.

    Whether he hits or not doesn’t matter. He is a cheater and always will be.

  75. Boston Dave (in Eugene, OR) May 16th, 2009 at 10:01 pm

    Pete,

    my feeling is that the game was completely marred for many years because of PEDs. I think the entire league as a whole was to blame. That said, it’s wrong to isolate individuals. Blame them for the part they played, but do not isolate them.

    In order to continue as a fan, you need to be comfortable that MLB is doing everything they can to prevent that from happening again. For those who can accept that, they need to root for everybody as they would have if there was never a steroid era.

    If ARod homers, it was a clean HR, and it deserves cheering. (If Papi strikes out, it was a clean strike out and deserves cheering – sorry :) )

    Alex deserves a second chance. He seems sincere. If he’s not, he doesn’t get another chance. MLB is getting a second chance. That means letting go of the “steroid era” and moving on.

    Perhaps most importantly, MLB cannot claim ignorance ever again. They know what the problem is and they know what they need to do about it.

  76. Justin May 16th, 2009 at 10:01 pm

    “There are dozens of performance-enhancing substances out there for which no tests exist.”

    Ya, like carrots. Did you see how orange Mike Mussina was on some of those days he pitched last year?

  77. Matt May 16th, 2009 at 10:01 pm

    I dont post much on here, but i am on this blog more 10-15 times per day especially gameday……I really enjoyed everything pete writes and I find his comments funny…Not sure if he is writing this just for traffic and some hits but is he delusional? Why would we hesitate to cheer for the best player in baseball hitting a walk off HR for the team we all love? That doesnt make sense to me…Arod took roids yes but so did 1/3 of MLB.. i wish the best for Arod and you are a Pats fan, deep down Pete you are probably a Sox fan so you just want to hate Arod inside

  78. Bob(The Original) May 16th, 2009 at 10:01 pm

    It is an interesting question Pete.

    I came to the conclusion, even before all the A-Rod stuff came out in Feb., to kind of ignore all the steroid stuff anymore. We know it was/is going on, but we don’t know with any certainty who has/is doing it. Who’s to say Breslow hasn’t used something? We don’t even really know how much effect it really even has on the user’s performance. The whole thing is so clouded with uncertainty that it’s impossible to have any definitive idea of any of it.

    Baseball is my diversion from reality. I’m not going to let steroids sour my enjoyment of it.

  79. Laura - Win together, strike out alone! May 16th, 2009 at 10:01 pm

    “I guess if you’re “win by any means necessary” types it is ok. But I’m sure a lot of people will be conflicted knowing a cheater played a huge part in us winning.”

    Not if he’s not cheating now. Does anyone know the lasting affects of steroids? Who is to say that the HR he hit today or next year was the benefit of ‘roids he took in 2003? We don’t know that stuff and it makes absolutely no sense to try and analyze something so insignificant to death like that. I’ve got bigger fish to fry. Show me proof that he’s juicing now. Then I’ll throw him to the curb. Until then, I’m going to jump up and down every time he goes yard and celebrate any championship he helps bring to the Bronx.

  80. Terry from NH May 16th, 2009 at 10:02 pm

    I love that it was Alex who won the game and I love the Yankees. He won the game for my favorite team. I cheer the team and the players it represents. There were 103 more names on that list too that are hiding in the shadows. If the Yanks do win the World Series with Arod leading the way, people will have their say and views of “was it legit?”, but you know what, there is a RedSox team that won the WS recently with a team that could have had possibly 2 players in Manny and Papi that “could” have been on banned substances so who knows! Alex is paying his dues and I personally want him to succeed and mature during this process. It’s gonna be a long ride so we might as well support him as fans! Great for you, Alex!

  81. Yanksrule57 May 16th, 2009 at 10:02 pm

    Once baseball put in place meaningful steroid testing, the issue went away for me.
    Both the union and the owners were negligent and were not good stewards of the game. As a fan you can either choose to walk away from the game, or just as after the strike of ’94 decide the game is better and bigger than the fallible people who run it.
    The media loves tearing people down. It sells (they think) and it fits the template of most J schools which tell them go forth and make a difference in the world.
    A-rod is merely one of their latest targets. They will fail to bring him down, although I am not certain he can keep from doing stupid attention grabbing things.
    So, in short, I really don’t care about who did or didn’t do PED;s in the past. I hope that Ms Robert’s books failure will quit the media drumbeat on the subject. But I;m not holding my breath…

  82. djeter220 May 16th, 2009 at 10:02 pm

    “…because non of this crap was written after andy won the other night…”

    A very good point, justin.

  83. Rich James May 16th, 2009 at 10:02 pm

    If you can’t cheer for A-Rod anymore..than you better put Andy Pettitte in the same boat as Alex..if you don’t you are a HYPOCRITE!!

  84. Much Ado about Something May 16th, 2009 at 10:03 pm

    My two cents worth… minus a cent and a half for taxes ;)

    We enjoy watching athletic plays, long balls, great catches, close plays, good pitching. It is entertainment to a large extent, and I want to see the players play at their best.

    Some of that has lead to PED use. It doesn’t make a poor player great. It can help a great player play more and have more strength.

    I saw the comment about rooting for the laundry. That is true to an extent, but I follow and root for players I like that have left so long as they aren’t playing against the Yankees. I do that more in football than in baseball, but I really don’t have a favorite football team.

    I also root against certain players who just rub me wrong, no matter what team they play for. I don’t like Manny and was extremely happy the Yankees didn’t sign him. Yeah, he can be fun to watch when he does the goofy stuff… unless he is playing for your team.

    The PED issue is the fault of everyone involved in the game. Even clean players for not speaking up and demanding more testing. The fans as well, because we want the players to play at their best every single day, and boo when they have any struggles.

    I don’t like that Alex did the drugs, but like others in the game who I suspect and who have been found to use, I can somewhat understand it. Given Alex’s issues, looking to gain an additional edge and gain some approval from the fickle fans had to play a role. The money doesn’t hurt either.

    Its a business. As such, does it make that much difference from using corked bats or doing things to the ball? Maybe if it were more open and known rather than done in hiding it would be better. Get it out of the shadows and maybe the players themselves would pressure those tempted to use to play clean.

    Yes, it taints the game some. So did all the other things done in past eras to gain a little edge. I still get jacked up seeing a big hit like Alex hit today.

  85. randyhater May 16th, 2009 at 10:03 pm

    A-Fraud getting caught with roids didnt’t change my opinion of him. I thought he was an insufferable jackass before and I think he’s insufferable jackass now.

    I hold my nose and root for him because he plays for my team (same as I did for Reggie, Steve Howe, Gooden, Mondesi, K. Brown, the Big Eunuch, Clemens, etc., etc.). But there’s no question I took more delight in Melky’s walk-off last night.

  86. YankeeDiva May 16th, 2009 at 10:03 pm

    Look I don’t know a single person over the age of 18 that hasn’t made at least one stupid decision in their lives. As long as they don’t harm(rape, kill, severely injury someone or personally destroy someone’s life for their own benefit) I’m going to give them a second chance (maybe even a 3rd or 4th depending on what it was). Life is about stumbling and getting back up. Why would I cheer any less for Arod then I would someone who took street drugs and over came them, someone who got a DUI (putting more lives at risk then anything Arod did) and came back?

    Pete are you seriously pretending that you have lived the perfect life than you have never done anything that you are ashamed of or needed forgiveness for? I understand that you don’t like Arod, but I don’t understand these constant post. It is a very creepy obsession to say the least.

  87. Poker Face May 16th, 2009 at 10:03 pm

    Nobody is going to acknowledge A-Rod’s HR chase. How do you encourage a cheater chasing a record?

    All these numbers he puts up are empty. We have no idea when he we clean or not.

  88. m May 16th, 2009 at 10:03 pm

    Not an Alex fan. Never, ever is steroids acceptable. ‘Everyone’s doing it’ doesn’t wash with me.

    But there has to be a point where we as fans move on. I can understand members of the media needing to pause a bit and absorb what really happened. After all, they’ll be faced with the tough decisions of who is worthy of the Hall of Fame.

    You’re a tough one to figure out, Pete. Or maybe I am. I get where you’re coming from if indeed you did say “How do I know if he’s the best baseball player?” A-rod cheated himself of the chance to be known as the best in history. He certainly was on his way, until this happened. He certainly isn’t the best pure baseball player, that label will have to go to someone from the past.

    But I think you’re off base raising questions about how Alex looks in the field or at the plate, if you’re insinuating anything mental or steroids related. Quite simply, he’s 2 months behind everyone else and still ahead of some. And frankly, he’s not even 100% back physically.

    This is the perfect storm for Alex. The surgery was a significant distraction. Ramirez’s fertility issues was quite a gift for Alex. The team struggling top to bottom set up the perfect scenario. If Alex can truly become one of the guys, and this team does something special, it can quite possibly be a happy ending for Alex.

    But anyway, thanks as always for the perspective. Thought provoking stuff. (p.s. more Tom Brady, less Bruce Springsteen)

  89. GreenBeret7 May 16th, 2009 at 10:03 pm

    Betances went 6 innings for Tampa.

    Betances’ final line: 6.0 innings, 4 hits, 1 run, 1 earned run, 3 walks, 5 strikeouts, 0 HRA, WP 1, 4.19 ERA.

    Montero is 2-3 with a double, Romine is 1-2 with a double, run scored and a walk.
    Tampa leads 2-1 in the top of the 7th.

  90. Pat M May 16th, 2009 at 10:04 pm

    Truth be told, not once today did I even think of peds….In fact I’ve just moved on as it’s just a waste of time ….Besides the freak users have been gone for awhile….HGH is small potatoes compared to the effects that steroids had on guys like McGwire, Sosa, Bonds The Can-Man etc….Let’s just enjoy baseball….

  91. KWAN May 16th, 2009 at 10:04 pm

    “A-Fraud getting caught with roids didnt’t change my opinion of him. I thought he was an insufferable jackass before and I think he’s insufferable jackass now.

    That’s how I look at him too.

  92. Trevor May 16th, 2009 at 10:04 pm

    Oh brother more steroid talk….

    :roll:

  93. Brendan May 16th, 2009 at 10:05 pm

    I actually said the words “good for him” when it happened. I want to see him succeed, as I’m a person that thinks PEDs are blown out of proportion, and hate the witch hunt that followed Alex and others because of it. I would like to see nothing else than for Pettitte and A-Rod be huge parts of a post-season run.

  94. GGTM May 16th, 2009 at 10:05 pm

    Pete, just one question besides the one I already posted … how do you idolize as player like Giambi … because I read your blog quite often … and I saw so many writings from you about the Giambino … and yet you can’t help yourself but bring something like this about A-Rod? Why didn’t you bring this stuff up about Giambi when he hit homeruns? Is cheating okay as long as you personally like the guy?

  95. bubba May 16th, 2009 at 10:05 pm

    I honestly didn’t think about him being the one to hit the game winning home run to be a bad thing until now. Not that I am saying that Pete is beating a dead horse, I actually agree with his question and I understand why he is writing about it. The one thing that I can’t stand about living in New York is that everyone is so divided with their sports teams. Even though I hate Boston, I am jealous of the fact that they city/state come together and root for one team per season. Living in New York everyone is always fighting between the Jets/Giants, Yankees/Mets, Rangers/Devils/Islanders, and Knicks/Nets. It seems like being a Yankee fan you are always trying to defend yourself because you are either a Yankee fan or Yankee hater. When a good thing like AROD hitting a walk off home run happens, you dread it when you see a Mets fan or any other fan come up with stupid excuses why your team is tainted. If Jeter hit that home run. no one would say a word. I will root for AROD though. As long as he is wearing this uniform I don’t think there is anything else we could do. I want the Yankees to win, and we need him to do well in order to win.

  96. you gotta have faith (right porch giveth and the right porch taketh away) May 16th, 2009 at 10:05 pm

    great post pete

    honestly i didnt even think about it till now, at the time i just wanted a hit, i wanted a win, when he crushed that ball the first thing that came to my mind was “YESSS YANKS WIN!”, then i hoped he wouldnt injure his hip in the celebration pile lol

  97. Danny T May 16th, 2009 at 10:06 pm

    At the end of the day it’s a game. And this was a great one. Why wouldn’t we cheer? A-Rod’s paid his dues in many ways. Better to root for him now than all the cheats who are still out there.

  98. Rich James May 16th, 2009 at 10:06 pm

    Thats too bad Betances did good tonight…because he “could” have taken steroids! now i can’t root for him ever again! *sarcasm*

  99. Frank May 16th, 2009 at 10:06 pm

    Andy took HGH while he was trying to rehab from an injury. He took is in good faith and apologized. He wasn’t trying to get an edge, he was simply trying to heal.

  100. cano he didnt May 16th, 2009 at 10:06 pm

    Either way he isnt failing tests now therefore i would say he is not juicing and hasnt in the past few years. because of this i would say that homerun is not tainted and also wouldnt these home runs he is currently hitting be harder to hit after not taking the drugs? everyone is always talking about how skills totally drop off after juicing.

  101. TD May 16th, 2009 at 10:06 pm

    Do we have evidence that Arod is currently using PEDs?

    If no…that what makes todays HR tainted?

  102. TD May 16th, 2009 at 10:07 pm

    * then * what makes

  103. Boston Dave (in Eugene, OR) May 16th, 2009 at 10:08 pm

    “Not an Alex fan. Never, ever is steroids acceptable. ‘Everyone’s doing it’ doesn’t wash with me.”

    ————

    It washes well with me when it could mean the difference between making 500k a year and $10M a year and at the time there was no chance of getting caught.

    It doesn’t make it right, and certainly doesn’t make it as fulfilling.

    but you want to open that can of worms?? you are challenging human nature at it’s finest. you’ll need to criticize every human being who has ever sacrificed others for their own benefit.

  104. Carl from CA May 16th, 2009 at 10:08 pm

    Can people stop bringing up Giambi?

    Giambi is a stand-up guy who is genuine, likeable, and honest. He is easy to root for. He also apologized for taking them.

  105. beefy May 16th, 2009 at 10:08 pm

    Chances are that Alex is clean right now so that would make the game winner today steroid free and that is good enough for me. It just seems pointless to hold a bad decision against one person when we have no clue about “the other guys”. I want to enjoy the game of baseball, but by worrying about one guys past I would be doing the opposite.

  106. JJ May 16th, 2009 at 10:09 pm

    Once a cheater, always a cheater.

    If you felt you needed an “edge” then, why not now?

    There is always a way around testing. HGH is still undetectable.

    I have NO reason to believe that A-Rod didn’t take steroids this morning before the game.

  107. S.A.--The sun will come out tomorrow May 16th, 2009 at 10:10 pm

    I’m glad Alex was able to get us the win with that HR. That was fine. I was cheering for him. If it was someone else, I would have been glad too.

    I’m just glad the Yankees won.

    I cheered for Giambi when he was here, I still cheer for Andy and I’m still gonna cheer for Alex.

  108. Terry from NH May 16th, 2009 at 10:10 pm

    Arod came out and admitted what he did. The years he said he did it, who knows? He’s a bigger man for accepting it and facing his demons with the media and fans, but at least I can respect him over guys like Palmeiro, McGwire, Sosa and Bonds who repeatedly denied it. If he can hit 35-45 HR a year from now on with being tested often then I can say that he probably never even needed to use enhancements, but he did so…

  109. brian May 16th, 2009 at 10:10 pm

    No not at all, I am a fan that is rooting for arod to succeed and recover whatever image possibly. I know manny was suspended and thats worse than what happened to arod but don’t u feel that arod was even more hated for doing it. I am first a yankee fan so i was loving the fact it was a walk off just a great ending. There was not a second when the thought “this guy did steroids enter my thoughts”

  110. Rich James May 16th, 2009 at 10:10 pm

    Frank:

    That excuse could fly if Andy didn’t lie about using HGH twice.

    First he said that it was for an injury..okay we’ll let that slide because he came out in “good faith”…but then later on we find out he used for more than “one time” that he said he did..

    c’mon now…we’re not idiots, Andy

  111. Laura - Win together, strike out alone! May 16th, 2009 at 10:10 pm

    “Andy took HGH while he was trying to rehab from an injury. He took is in good faith and apologized. He wasn’t trying to get an edge, he was simply trying to heal.”

    All that means is that Andy is less of a numb nut than Alex is. He still did something wrong.

    But all of that is in the past – for both Andy and Alex. We need to move on.

  112. Kevin S. May 16th, 2009 at 10:11 pm

    Carl from CA, didn’t Alex also apologize? The double-standard is a little troublesome.

    Boston Dave, I think you’re overstating the impact that steroids can have. They aren’t a magic elixir. They won’t improve your swing or your batting eye. You have to absolutely work out as hard as you can, and then steroids will allow you to work harder. Other than that, they don’t affect you as a player.

  113. Milton May 16th, 2009 at 10:12 pm

    Pettitte took HGH

    Giambi took woman’s fertilizer

    Manny took woman’s fertilizer

    A-Rod took steroids. Big difference. That’s why the reactions to A-Rod is different compared to the other guys.

  114. Peter Abraham May 16th, 2009 at 10:12 pm

    Thanks to all those who made intelligent, reasoned comments. I don’t think there is a right or wrong in any of this. We cheer who we want to cheer for.

    I was just wondering how people felt. Because of who he is and what he means to the franchise, Alex is a jumping-off point for such a discussion.

    Somebody asked about the other players and what they think. I haven’t asked everybody but I know there are some guys on the team who are conflicted. For the young players, who were all tested in college and/or throughout the minors, PED users don’t get much sympathy.

    I try to make the blog 90 percent news. What I see, what I hear, etc. But I do think there is room for thoughtful discussion and debate. At least I hope so.

    I’m off to bed, not much sleep lately. Thanks to everybody for reading.

  115. Yazman (aka David) May 16th, 2009 at 10:12 pm

    Well written question, Peter.

    I say once baseball allows the players on your team to play, you root for them. The rules are there to deal with who deserves to play and who doesn’t.

  116. Rich James May 16th, 2009 at 10:13 pm

    Carl from CA:

    Jason never apoloigized for taking steroids..he said he was sorry for the destraction around the team because of him

  117. Boston Dave (in Eugene, OR) May 16th, 2009 at 10:13 pm

    “But all of that is in the past – for both Andy and Alex. We need to move on.”

    ——–

    exactly. everyone is entitled to their opinion but none of us have a clue about the scope of the problem and who was or was not involved.

    if you want to be a fan, a real fan, it’s time to accept that players are now clean (or they will get caught and punished).

    if you cannot accept that or don’t believe it but continue to watch the games and support the game, your right to criticize suspected “cheaters” goes away.

  118. Laura - Win together, strike out alone! May 16th, 2009 at 10:14 pm

    “Giambi is a stand-up guy who is genuine, likeable, and honest. He is easy to root for. He also apologized for taking them.”

    Um, no he didn’t. He apologized for something. We are still trying to find out what he was apologizing for. And the fact that Giambi is more likable than Alex is irrelevant. Andy Pettite is probably more likable than Alex for some as well. That doesn’t change what they all did. Just because Alex puts his foot in his mouth on a regular basis doesn’t make him any more guilty than Andy, Giambi, Manny or the other 103 guys who got caught. That’s what the media has forgotten. They hate Alex so they want to make it seem like what he did was worse than what the others did when in fact, it’s all the same.

  119. tampayank May 16th, 2009 at 10:14 pm

    There are certain players that are ‘steroid creations’(Big Popup) and others that are just GREAT Talents like AROD and Manny…..I think people that throw away someone’s life long talent for one mistake is not fair, if there is no Positive test this season or in the offseason; you give this incredible talent credit for working his tail off to get back to help his team win a 27th Championship. That’s the problem w/ many baseball fans, far too obsessed with morals, most NFL players are probably some of the worst characters in our society yet their fans don’t care, why? Because their job is Entertainment. I’m just sick of the steroid talk and after maybe the best win of the season, people try to put a damper on it…..you figure such an detailed Yankee Blog would be run by a Yankee Fan.

  120. Frank May 16th, 2009 at 10:14 pm

    Pete,

    Thanks for the great post. Nice to have some thought provoking posts like this. Don’t worry about the haters. A-Rod could rob a bank and and people here would defend him. An A-Rod apologist will not change its stripes.

  121. Terry from NH May 16th, 2009 at 10:14 pm

    I wish Pete Abe would’ve never posted this topic because it seems he is trying to take away what an important and great moment for Alex had. More important, Teixeira look awesome today and we should be thinking about a breakout moment he had and hopefully continues to produce for the Yanks for next 7 plus years.. Great game Tex!!

  122. Yazman (aka David) May 16th, 2009 at 10:14 pm

    I’d also suggest that as a journalist or as a fan — if you’re not comfortable with the rules or their enforcement (or testing procedures), push the issue. Help make the rules, their enforcement and the testing better.

  123. Boston Dave (in Eugene, OR) May 16th, 2009 at 10:14 pm

    “I try to make the blog 90 percent news. What I see, what I hear, etc. But I do think there is room for thoughtful discussion and debate. At least I hope so.”

    ——-

    Pete,

    I think you’re evolving as a blogger :)

    the best Yankee blog on the web might get better!

  124. Pat M May 16th, 2009 at 10:15 pm

    Well this topic will certainly kill a party and send people flocking to the doors….Bad call Pete

  125. m May 16th, 2009 at 10:15 pm

    Boston Dave,

    Well, if I had a son that was skipped over by a player who was juicing that wouldn’t be okay with me. Stealing signals is a part of the game, steroids isn’t. I would never tell my kids it’s okay to take steroids. If they made that choice to get the big bucks, it wouldn’t be because we encouraged it.

    I can understand why people do it, but that doesn’t make it right.

  126. Trevor May 16th, 2009 at 10:15 pm

    “Giambi took woman’s fertilizer

    Manny took woman’s fertilizer”

    Geez you make it sound like they’re grass or animals something.

  127. Chambliss May 16th, 2009 at 10:16 pm

    I was not thinking about steroids when A-Rod hit the homer. I was thinking about how lucky we are as fans to see one of the greatest players who has ever played the game perform on the big stage in NY..

    A-Rod has made his share of mistakes, but so have many others who are getting a free pass on the steroid issue. I don’t feel bad for the guy (he makes too much money for that), but I was happy for his and perhaps moreso for his teammates who seems truly overjoyed with the walkoff home run. You get the sense that the players on this team are starting to believe in themselves.

    If A-Rod can put up even near average A-Rod numbers, you know that Tex is going to see good pitches and start hitting.

    Instead of losing games that they should have won, this team is starting to win games that they should have lost, ith last night’s game as a prime example.

    The pen still needs a lot of fixing, but Cashman will address that issue and the return of Bruney (next week perhaps?) will be huge for the pen.

    I am not going to dwell on the A-Rod on roids issue. He cheated. He admitted it. I have moved on.

    If you asked me, Ortiz is a much bigger issue on that subject. It seems clear that the guy who hit 50 homers a few years ago and who can barely hit the warning track in a park not named Fenway was a PED user. Of course he’ll never come out and admit it and his name on the tested positive report will never be leaked, so we may never know.

  128. Boston Dave (in Eugene, OR) May 16th, 2009 at 10:16 pm

    “I wish Pete Abe would’ve never posted this topic because it seems he is trying to take away what an important and great moment for Alex had.”

    ———

    I respectfully disagree. I think, this time, Pete reached out to the posters for their opinion and will legitimately consider them.

  129. Bronx Jeers May 16th, 2009 at 10:16 pm

    I do not believe that Alex is currently using PED’s so today’s HR did not give me pause.

    However I will admit that after seeing some of his drives die on the warning track this week, the thought did enter my mind that perhaps he has been using all along.

    Yes that is extreme but at the same time I fell such questions are natural.

    I do agree with Cal Ripken when he says that he really wants to get to the bottom of Alex’s motivation for using. It does not compute.

    I have always believed that the biggest motivator in this mess has been money. Longer careers and bigger contracts.

    However, Alex, at the time that he admits beginning to use, had just received the biggest contract in the history of MLB.

    So why? Is he that messed up that even that accomplishment is not enough to satisfy his ego?

    Could be.

    You know Selena’s book could have been a serious inquiry into his reasoning and I think at heart she may have had this mission in mind. She has stated that finding out what made Alex the person that he is was her ultimate purpose in the book’s writing. But I think she allowed her contempt of Alex get the best of her and the book became just another tell all work of gossipy fluff.

  130. Laura - Win together, strike out alone! May 16th, 2009 at 10:16 pm

    “Somebody asked about the other players and what they think. I haven’t asked everybody but I know there are some guys on the team who are conflicted.”

    I’m sure that some of them are, Pete. However, I’m sure that conflict would be resolved if Alex helps get them a championship. Like magic, whatever problem they had would be washed away…..with champagne. :P

  131. YankeeJosh May 16th, 2009 at 10:17 pm

    Pete,

    Does it give you pause to root for the Patriots because the head coach was caught cheating? Is Xavier Nady cheating by doing this platlet procedure now. It can be argued that the line between that and HGH is very thin.

    IMO, there’s a huge gray area with PEDS. So no, I didn’t give it a second thought today.

    Also, why would you ask this question now? The Yankees and fans have dealt with confessed steroid user Jason Giambi for years. He was forgiven and accepted back. Why would it be any different with A-Rod?

  132. Rey May 16th, 2009 at 10:18 pm

    Arod is a phony. A low character, non-reputable person. Just like Bonds, he rubs everyone the wrong way. Look how many people have called out A-Rod. Moyer, Oswalt etc. Pedroia called him a dork. A 23 yr old Joe Saunders said he should be taken off the AS ballet. Ortiz said all juicers should be banned for a year.

    Giambi and Andy are humble, down-to-earth, personable guys.

  133. pat May 16th, 2009 at 10:18 pm

    “So many people – rightfully so – said the press ducked the PED question back in the 90s. So what are we supposed to do now? I have no idea.”

    But PEDs isn’t news now. The new names that come out might be but the rest is just details. I’m bored with details.

    Write about baseball. It’s what you like to do and what we like to read.

  134. Tom C May 16th, 2009 at 10:19 pm

    In the moment i think you root for the jersey. cheer for the yanks later on you think about it but still cheer for your players. i do think if i was arod i would tell those fans who boo him in the early going of the game for striking out and cheer him at the end to shove it

  135. YankeeJosh May 16th, 2009 at 10:19 pm

    Boston Dave (in Eugene, OR)

    “I respectfully disagree. I think, this time, Pete reached out to the posters for their opinion and will legitimately consider them.”

    Boston Dave. I agree. But why is this an issue. The Yankees have had Jason Giambi on the team for years and this question was never raised. Why raise it with A-Rod now?

  136. RalphieD May 16th, 2009 at 10:20 pm

    i dont like that arod took steroids…it doesnt make me feel good as a yankee fan but it is what it is…arod made a mistake (knowingly) and he has suffered for it. As long as he keeps his nose clean here on out, i like the guy. Hes a great player for my favorite team..hes gotten a second chance and hopefully he makes good on it b/c there is no 3rd

  137. Sando May 16th, 2009 at 10:20 pm

    I’m sure one of those conflicted players is Jeter

    Why would he want to be apart of a tainted championship and play with this clown for the next 9 years?

  138. RC 16 May 16th, 2009 at 10:21 pm

    I’m more upset that we were conned into believing he was the clean HR king and we would be witnessing history pinstripes.

    Now he is just another long line of disgraces. His records mean nothing

  139. Laura - Win together, strike out alone! May 16th, 2009 at 10:21 pm

    “Giambi and Andy are humble, down-to-earth, personable guys.”

    Yes. And they are former cheaters just like Alex is. What’s your point? That because Alex is socially awkward, we should burn him at the stake, but let the other cheaters have a pass because they are nice guys? Sorry, that’s not how the world works.

  140. Kevin S. May 16th, 2009 at 10:22 pm

    Rey – Dustin Pedroia is the last person to comment on the quality of another human being.

  141. Terry from NH May 16th, 2009 at 10:22 pm

    Boston Dave, why would he post “what an encouraging development for Arod” to build him up then post this discouraging post the next? We as fans of the Yankees know the cirumstances and have our own opinions. There is no need to drag this on. I do respect his right to write, but it is time to just “play the game” and move on. It’s not like we need an article to remind us what happened.

  142. Boston Dave (in Eugene, OR) May 16th, 2009 at 10:23 pm

    “Boston Dave,

    Well, if I had a son that was skipped over by a player who was juicing that wouldn’t be okay with me. Stealing signals is a part of the game, steroids isn’t. I would never tell my kids it’s okay to take steroids. If they made that choice to get the big bucks, it wouldn’t be because we encouraged it.

    I can understand why people do it, but that doesn’t make it right.”

    ——-

    m,

    of course not. it was never ok. but it’s hard to accept blaming Alex and making him the face of a problem that was widespread. Because none of us have any clue how many people were involved in this – players, GMs, owners, Selig, etc it doesn’t seem fair to cast all of your disgust onto select individuals.

    Cheating is cheating, but it’s not hard to understand, for me, why players did cheat. It was SO easy. You want people to follow rules, you have to enforce them.

    I also think that if people are against PED use, and they don’t believe the game is clean now, they’re going to be conflicted following the sport now and should probably stop.

    If you seriously aren’t sure if players are still cheating, and you have a problem with cheating, you’re not going to enjoy the game.

    If you want to enjoy baseball right now, you have to be willing to give second chances and the benefit of the doubt that the testing is working this time.

  143. Dr. Cox May 16th, 2009 at 10:23 pm

    “Ortiz said all juicers should be banned for a year.”

    He has loooads of credibility, doesn’t he. (if I knew how to do the rolling eyes thingy, It would be in these parenthesis.)

  144. Eric May 16th, 2009 at 10:24 pm

    People should stop getting emotional and just root for the laundry.

    Don’t single out favorite players, heros, feel good stories etc. Just root for the team.

  145. Sea Net May 16th, 2009 at 10:25 pm

    Did Ortiz really say all juicers should be banned for a year?

    LOL. Hilarious.

  146. pat May 16th, 2009 at 10:26 pm

    “A 23 yr old Joe Saunders said he should be taken off the AS ballet.”

    Alex in a tutu would be something not seen before.

    “Why would he want to be apart of a tainted championship and play with this clown for the next 9 years?”

    Derek can make that choice for himself after next season.

  147. Chris May 16th, 2009 at 10:26 pm

    The best part is now he is human just like the rest of us. He is no longer this fabricated story book hero who always gets the girl and does nothing wrong.

  148. Boston Dave (in Eugene, OR) May 16th, 2009 at 10:26 pm

    “Boston Dave. I agree. But why is this an issue. The Yankees have had Jason Giambi on the team for years and this question was never raised. Why raise it with A-Rod now?”

    ——-

    no idea. perhaps Pete is just now willing to open his mind to the opinions of others on the subject.

    he obviously still holds or held a grudge against Alex. maybe he’s willing to give Alex a second (and probably final) chance?

  149. Christina May 16th, 2009 at 10:28 pm

    I think some of you are forgetting that A-Rod is not the typical player. He is considered one of the best in the game,making the most in the game, which is why his name is brought up more than guys like Pettitte and Giambi. It may not be right and it shouldn’t make a difference, but it is what it is.

  150. John K from VA May 16th, 2009 at 10:28 pm

    I understand what you’re saying Pete, but I really can’t understand all your hate for A-Rod (very obvious from reading this blog). Over the years, you were a huge Giambi advocate, did you ever stop and pause for him? Even this year, Andy Pettite made quality starts when everyone else was doing terrible, yet all we heard was praise. A-Rod is getting too much blame for something many players do these days. I don’t mean to take a shot, but I feel posts like this are unnecessary (especially when you yourself complain about the hordes of journalists continuing to talk about the subject).

    I understand its different in his situation, given his contract and whats expected of him, but thats no reason to single him out. I don’t pause and think of that because I expect the players to respect the fans enough not to spit in their faces like that. If A-Rod tests positive down the road or more evidence proves he is indeed lying about how much he used and when, then sure, THEN we can pause after each homerun. Until then, he’s innocent until proven guilty.

  151. TY Clip May 16th, 2009 at 10:29 pm

    Teixiera was Doug Mientkeywitch basically without A-Rod hitting behind him

  152. G May 16th, 2009 at 10:29 pm

    I wish Gardner hit the homer

  153. Boston Dave (in Eugene, OR) May 16th, 2009 at 10:30 pm

    “I do agree with Cal Ripken when he says that he really wants to get to the bottom of Alex’s motivation for using. It does not compute.”

    ———-

    I don’t agree there. It’s obvious what any players motivation is – to hopefully get better results on the baseball field (which leads to obvious benefits).

    Cal needs to shut his trap. Did he say anything about Manny? Or any of his Orioles teammates who used? Brian Roberts?

    What was their motivation, Cal?

  154. Terry from NH May 16th, 2009 at 10:31 pm

    Christina, you’re right Arod is not typical. Besides being the one of the best and most paid. He is a celebrity and that creates a bigger target and spotlight. That attention he brought is his own fault, but hopefull he can stay in the shadows of the circus.

  155. GOAT May 16th, 2009 at 10:31 pm

    I wish A-Rod played the game with passion and grit, like Pedroia, Ellsbury, Masterson etc.

    When I see ARod, I see a guy who wants his paycheck. When I see a Sox player, I see someone who would play for free because they love the game of baseball

    ARod is a great talent but he just doesn’t have “it”.

  156. carl May 16th, 2009 at 10:31 pm

    Open threads like this kinda suck because you have fans from other teams pretending to be Yankee fans in it.

  157. Tom K May 16th, 2009 at 10:31 pm

    Since I’ve come to the realization that each and every team in baseball has a few guys who are using (or have used) performance enhancing drugs, I don’t see any reason why I should single out A-Rod to be honest.

    Guess I should feel guilty whenever Pettitte pitches the Yankees to a victory, as well.

  158. Matt May 16th, 2009 at 10:32 pm

    I will cheer, but I think every time any player does something, I’ll think maybe they took something.

    witch is sad.

  159. SZ {Cortero A) May 16th, 2009 at 10:32 pm

    Cal has a ring, something ARod can only dream of

    Therefore, Cal can say whatever he wants. He certainly has more credibility than A-Rod. Cal is the ambassador of baseball, A-Rod is the disgracer of baseball.

  160. Laura - Win together, strike out alone! May 16th, 2009 at 10:32 pm

    “I think some of you are forgetting that A-Rod is not the typical player. He is considered one of the best in the game,making the most in the game, which is why his name is brought up more than guys like Pettitte and Giambi. It may not be right and it shouldn’t make a difference, but it is what it is.”

    Very true, Christina. That’s part of it. The other part is that he’s hated because of the money, because of his looks and because of the stupid things that he says. People revel in his misery. It’s a sad commentary on our society.

  161. PK May 16th, 2009 at 10:32 pm

    pete – this is disgusting.
    just let him have his moment, please.

  162. LakeMichigan May 16th, 2009 at 10:33 pm

    Homer…haha. Take a step back.

  163. Frustrated Fan May 16th, 2009 at 10:33 pm

    I enjoyed the moment for what it was, a walk off homerun where my team won. i just want to enjoy it without thinking about all the other garbage. i will let all the haters do that.

  164. Bill Porter May 16th, 2009 at 10:33 pm

    No.

  165. Boston Dave (in Eugene, OR) May 16th, 2009 at 10:33 pm

    “Since I’ve come to the realization that each and every team in baseball has a few guys who are using (or have used) performance enhancing drugs, I don’t see any reason why I should single out A-Rod to be honest.”

    ——–

    I agree. The only solution, for those who would like to move on, is to prevent it from happening again.

    The onus is on MLB (owners/players assoc) to do that. If they don’t or won’t, I’ll blame them.

  166. Betsy May 16th, 2009 at 10:34 pm

    Chambliss, I agree that the team was overjoyed today – the way they were using their hands to sort of hurry Alex home so they could embrace him – it was really wonderful to see. Alex had a look of pure joy on his face – when is the last time he experienced that feeling?

  167. Tyler May 16th, 2009 at 10:34 pm

    Peter, you love Jason Giambi more than anyone and I doubt you ever had these types of feelings when he hit his home runs.

  168. Boston Dave (in Eugene, OR) May 16th, 2009 at 10:35 pm

    “Cal has a ring, something ARod can only dream of

    Therefore, Cal can say whatever he wants. He certainly has more credibility than A-Rod. Cal is the ambassador of baseball, A-Rod is the disgracer of baseball.”

    ———–

    Unless the ring says “Get out of being a hypocritical jerk free” on it, he can have one of his former PED-using Oriole teammates inject the ring in his ass.

  169. m May 16th, 2009 at 10:35 pm

    Boston Dave,

    I don’t know. I just want the Yankees to win. Would I prefer that we do it the “right” way? Of course. If we win a WS with Alex, there will be cries about its legitimacy. I know, totally stupid right? Every WS team for the last 10 years or so would be tainted by that definition. But we’re quick to say, “ha!” with any manny WS, it’ll be there for Alex, too. Doesn’t matter whether or not Alex ever used in pinstripes. Anthing to bring down the Yankees and/or Alex.

    So, anyway, I think any Yankee fan or teammate wishes this wasn’t an issue. But since it is, we have to cope the best we can. For me, that means putting it in the past as opposed to saying it’s okay because everyone’s doing it.

  170. Yankee Fan in Boston May 16th, 2009 at 10:36 pm

    Frankly, I like baseball. I want to watch baseball, follow baseball, and read about baseball. Call me immoral, but I have steroid fatigue. The sports press spent years if not decades glorifying these guys well beyond their worth, because it filled pages. Now they’re all salivating to win awards writing about steroids. I’m really just fatigued by it all now.

    I just want baseball.

  171. Mehdi also in SF May 16th, 2009 at 10:36 pm

    Ofcourse you can’t bring that up, or you’d have to do it with everything. from home runs, to hitting streaks to slumps even. There’s nothing you can do about it other than just get on with it like everyone else until he either gets caught again or till he wins another MVP. What would be the point in re hashing something everyone is tired about.

  172. Silky Johnston May 16th, 2009 at 10:36 pm

    Did I wish somebody else hit it? Absolutely not. Coming back from the hip surgery and coming back from his steroid admission, I can’t say there isn’t doubt in my mind that A-rod can fully come back from that.

    Do I think about his PED use when he’s at bat? Definitely in the back of my mind.

    However, its very easy to root for A-rod because he’s on the Yankees and frankly I derive a whole lot of satisfaction from the Yankees winning. I root for the jersey and the pinstripes, and if you’re on my side, I’m gonna be rooting for you to succeed in helping the Yanks win.

  173. Yazman (aka David) May 16th, 2009 at 10:37 pm

    “I wish A-Rod played the game with passion and grit, like Pedroia, Ellsbury, Masterson etc.

    When I see ARod, I see a guy who wants his paycheck.”

    Have you ever watched Alex or followed any of his career?

    No one works harder than A-Rod. Sure he gets in his own way. But you can’t question his desire.

  174. Kevin May 16th, 2009 at 10:38 pm

    Oh please, stop with this “chemistry” nonsense.

    If Edwar had given up a 3-R HR in the 8th to make it 7-3 and we lost, people would be talking about how we have no heart.

    We’re winning because of the pitching. It has stepped up tremendously.

  175. Arnold May 16th, 2009 at 10:38 pm

    I felt no twinge of hesitation. I was thrilled. The Yankees won their 4th game, A-Rod got a big hit the same day Tex got 4. It was all good.

    Sometimes, to be honest, I can’t totally enjoy a good Yankee moment when the umpire clearly blew a call – that just seems unfair and makes me feel cheap.

    Like some other people said, I can’t really single A-Rod out, as (like Pete said) we really don’t know how many people are cheating, and to what extent it helps, etc. Alex is a nut job, and I have lost loads of respect for him. I try to defend the guy, but he’s made himself impossible to defend. But on the field, if he helps the Yankees win, I’m happy. It helps that I’m very confident he’s not currently using PEDs. But all in all, that home run left me with only joy.

  176. K-ace May 16th, 2009 at 10:38 pm

    I was excited for the Yankees Pete.

    The response to your question, What do we do as fans?

    In my opinion, I will root for the team, not for the actions that A-rod committed. Yes they were wrong and I don’t condone his actions, But as a fan I feel it is my responsibility to cheer for the team and whoever is in it. Provide support and comfort to our team.

    Thats all I can think of though, A-rods career is tarnished but I will still support him as I have in the past. The key words is Supporting A-Rod, not his Actions.

  177. Tom K May 16th, 2009 at 10:39 pm

    “I agree. The only solution, for those who would like to move on, is to prevent it from happening again.

    The onus is on MLB (owners/players assoc) to do that. If they don’t or won’t, I’ll blame them.”
    —-
    Yep – the only problem is that it is very hard to completely rid the league of performance enhancers.
    I don’t know how far MLB goes – do they educate players as soon as they are drafted? One way to prevent it is by trying to make sure players don’t do it in the first place.

    Until a test is developed that is proactive rather than reactive, it’s just going to be impossible to take PEDs completely out of the game – but I do think that the numbers ARE dwindling. If you are a young player on the verge of arbitration or the verge of your first big free agency pay day, I think you will think twice about it now. A few years ago, perhaps not.

  178. The Thurm May 16th, 2009 at 10:41 pm

    I explained to my 8 year old today why I am not a fan of A-Rod. He was like..why don’t you like him Dad? I responded that “he is a cheater”. “What do you mean he is a cheater”. That obviously causes an entire conversation about HGH and what is means to the game. I also had to tell him that in my opinion Roger was also a cheater. The Roger where we saw him win his 350th game at Yankee Stadium. The Roger I told my son was one, if not the, greatest pitcher in the history of baseball. We talked about HGH and cheating. I told him I think Roger will go to jail because not only is he a cheater but he lied to Congress. I did get the “what is Congress” question.

    All in all, not a good conversation but one we had to have. There is a lesson here. Cheaters never prosper and although Roger and A-Rod made or make a lot of money, let’s see how easy it is for them to get into the Hall. I have always told my son that is the real test of a great baseball player. We need to cleanse the game of this cancer and fast.

    Just my humble opionion.

    A Baseball Dad.

  179. AZTravos May 16th, 2009 at 10:41 pm

    AJ’s “Pie” was a “cream towel”. Those are common in baseball. Spray a lot in a towel and run up fast to the person and hit them in the face.

    It’s not like they bake a whole pie and throw it in people’s faces lol

  180. Arliss May 16th, 2009 at 10:42 pm

    Nope, not at all. Glad we won the game, glad Arod got a big hit. Happy for him, myself, and the Yanks.

  181. m May 16th, 2009 at 10:42 pm

    Honestly? I only thought about the fact that we won. All that other stuff didn’t even cross my mind.

  182. Boston Dave (in Eugene, OR) May 16th, 2009 at 10:43 pm

    “Every WS team for the last 10 years or so would be tainted by that definition.”

    m,

    Yankee fans have no right to say the Sox titles don’t count or anybody else’s World Series wins don’t count.

    I think that’s the point. It wasn’t Alex or the Yankees or Manny or the Red Sox or the Orioles or Rangers or Jose Canseco who cheated.

    It was Major League Baseball.

    It stinks that clean players got cheated. It really does. If I took a math test and got a 90 and someone cheated and got a 98, I’d be pretty mad at them. I’d be just as mad if the teacher did nothing to prevent cheating in the class and made it so easy to cheat that almost everyone did. I’d be mad at all of them. I might even be mad at myself for not cheating. But I’d at least have the satisfaction that I did it on my own.

    Anyway, MLB has a huge responsibility to make sure we never have this discussion again.

    IMO, that means adopting a top notch testing program (Olympic?). No more excuses.

  183. Will Moller May 16th, 2009 at 10:44 pm

    The glaring issue with this post is that we’re talking about the NFL with Rodney Harrison. Pete, you’re a really smart guy, how could you possibly think that even half of the NFL’s players are “clean” of HGH, anabolics, greenies, etc?

    In baseball there’s always been a level of omerta–silence–surrounding the stuff. In the NFL, it’s tacitly accepted.

    If knowing Rodney Harrison used HGH taints his performance for you, and the rest of the league is free and clear of doubt, then you’re pulling the wool over your own eyes, aren’t you? Do you really believe that there is a single lineman in the NFL who grew to 350+ pounds, and picked up the ability to max out at 300-400 pounds on the bench press, without the use of PEDs?

    Now, I’m a baseball fan. I’m certainly biased. However, given my extremely cynical view of baseball (click the link in my name to read) I don’t think I’m leaning one way or the other in this case.

  184. Boston Dave (in Eugene, OR) May 16th, 2009 at 10:45 pm

    “Honestly? I only thought about the fact that we won. All that other stuff didn’t even cross my mind.”

    ——

    And i feel sorry for the people who did think about all of that. It’s alot more fun if you don’t have to think about anything but the exciting win.

    MLB, don’t make us have to think about that other stuff ever again, please.

  185. Yankee Jay May 16th, 2009 at 10:45 pm

    I’m glad it was A-Rod, we need him to step it up if we want this team to go anywhere. Unfortunately steroids are intertwined with the history of the game…remember those two solo shots that Giambi hit off Pedro in Game 7 that barely cleared the fence? Aaron Boone never hits that home run and we don’t go to the world Series if Giambi wasn’t juicing.

  186. 11 Five May 16th, 2009 at 10:45 pm

    Kevin,

    Yep. Today they have heart because we won. Tomorrow if AJ is AJ and we lose 6-1, the team will have no heart again lol

  187. Alex May 16th, 2009 at 10:45 pm

    the point here is valid, but the source is not. pete has been a pretty staunch arod detractor for some time. and although some of his comments about arod being a clown and whatnot might be justified, the fact that this post was never made after giambi (who pete openly loved) did something big, or after andy won a game is a joke.

    considering the opportunities pete has had to make this EXACT same point before, i am just going to chalk this up to unnecessary detraction.

  188. GreenBeret7 May 16th, 2009 at 10:46 pm

    K-ace
    May 16th, 2009 at 10:38 pm
    I was excited for the Yankees Pete.

    The response to your question, What do we do as fans?

    ————————————————————

    Do what the media does. Cherry pick the players that you feel deserve your admiration…like Giambi, that great guy that buys beers for you at the strip clubs, or the “ahh, shucks” guys like Pettitte. The problem with hammering guys like that is that they don’t “sell”.

  189. Betsy May 16th, 2009 at 10:47 pm

    AZTravos, we know that it’s not actually a pie………..but it’s hilarious anyway (although it would be funnier if players DID use real pies, lol)

  190. Boston Dave (in Eugene, OR) May 16th, 2009 at 10:47 pm

    “let’s see how easy it is for them to get into the Hall. I have always told my son that is the real test of a great baseball player.

    ——–

    really? what baseball writers think, qualified or not, about someone is the real test?

    they routinely struggle to pick the best defensive players for the gold glove, have no clue what they’re doing with other awards, and carry biases that may or may not be fair or justified.

    I’d find a new test if I were you.

  191. Disappointed May 16th, 2009 at 10:47 pm

    As soon as ARod hit the walkoff HR, I turned the TV off, like I would after a walk-off loss.

    I just can’t root for a cheater

  192. Bronx Jeers May 16th, 2009 at 10:48 pm

    “Cal needs to shut his trap. Did he say anything about Manny? Or any of his Orioles teammates who used? Brian Roberts? ”

    Alex and Cal have a relationship. Cal is a sort of mentor to him.

  193. Neil May 16th, 2009 at 10:48 pm

    It’s about winning championships, not worrying about who is using PEDs and who isn’t.

  194. S.A.--The sun will come out tomorrow May 16th, 2009 at 10:48 pm

    Brett Gardner went hitless yesterday, but he probably felt as if he were the one who hit the walk-off home run.

    Gardner may have gone 0-for-4 in the Yankees’ 6-4 victory over the Twins, but after the game, he learned that the 9-year-old girl who gave him a good-luck charm Friday had picked up an even bigger win: the chance to live a long, healthy life.

    The little girl – family members did not want her name divulged – had been in need of a transplant and spent 107 days waiting for a heart. Yesterday, capping a seemingly incredible turn of events, a replacement heart was found for her and she had successful surgery.

    http://www.newsday.com/sports/.....8309.story

    Best wishes to the little girl

  195. Will Moller May 16th, 2009 at 10:49 pm

    Dissapointed–

    Think it’s time for you to stop watching professional sports if juicing really offends you.

  196. Marie May 16th, 2009 at 10:51 pm

    I was at the game today, and didn’t think about it for a nano-second. When I heard the sound of the bat I jumped up immediately and was happy.

    I’m not sure anyone can really get pissed at him, or hold it against him when many people during the “steroid era” were using things, and as we saw from Alex and Manny some still are.

    Go A-Rod, and if he can only hit in clutch situations for the team and his personal stats suck it will make him all the better for the Yankees for a change.

  197. E-gawa May 16th, 2009 at 10:51 pm

    LOL Pete!!!

    Here’s a name for you JASON GIAMBI.

    How did you treat him?

  198. YankeesLuv May 16th, 2009 at 10:52 pm

    I could not have been happier when Arod hit the game winning homerun. All I was thinking was yes, we win! Then I proceeded to do a dance of joy. ;)

  199. Homer May 16th, 2009 at 10:53 pm

    When is someone going to pie AJ?

    You’d have to coordinate it correctly. It would have to be after AJ pitches a good game that we win and he would have to be out in the dugout and available for an interview.

    Most starters who pitch deep into the games don’t come back out to the dugout while the game is still going on. They shower and do their postgame icing and everything. Maybe not immediately but before the game ends.

  200. m May 16th, 2009 at 10:53 pm

    Boston Dave,

    The sad part is that everyone (except Jeter, lol) is under suspicion. So in that way, it’s difficult to enjoy the game because it’s not “pure” and you’re constantly compartentalizing (word?) things.

    That’s why I look forward to the day when we go young and athletic, love cheering for the kids. Would’ve liked for one of them to hit the HR, but I’m happy for Alex. Because even though I was following on gameday, I knew the fans were ready to erupt because they were EXPECTING something to happen.

    I also like that the Yankees are making their own memories at NYS.

  201. Betsy May 16th, 2009 at 10:53 pm

    S.A. – thanks for posting. What a heartwarming story – I hope that little girl lives a long, happy life with her new heart.

  202. pat May 16th, 2009 at 10:54 pm

    The Thurm

    I seperated the act from the person when I explained it to my kids.

    I didn’t want them to make a mistake and think I didn’t like them anymore instead of just not liking what they did.

  203. steven May 16th, 2009 at 10:56 pm

    I personally was thrilled the Yanks won, and that’s the most powerful emotion, but I do prefer it when a player I actually like and respect is the hero. But this was true even before
    the steroids revelation, as there were numerous reasons I disliked A-Rod; the steroids stuff only (but significantly!) exacerbated that.

    In general, what the steroids era has done, in my opinion, is: (1) Ruins my appreciation for various records, such as the HR records, which were probably the most popular records to be aware of and discuss in all of sports, and (2) Makes us much less likely to put athletes on a pedestal and respect them as deeply as fans perhaps used to. On the one hand that second point might be healthy, but on the other hand it’s a bit sad and we’re missing something. Where have you gone, Joe DiMaggio, and all that. Of course, Joe D. was supposed to be an a-hole, but fans didn’t know that back then.

  204. Betsy May 16th, 2009 at 10:56 pm

    Homer, I don’t even think it’s possible to pie a starting pitcher……..too bad because it would be cool to see AJ be on the receiving end of one of those things. Actually, I believe AJ did pie Roy Halladay after he won his 20th last year, but I think Roy had pitched a complete game…….

  205. Kevin Ocala, Fl May 16th, 2009 at 10:56 pm

    There was a time, maybe decades ago, when I rooted for a team, for an individual, to do well, and in a way transcend a game into a “moment”. After 30 years of weight-lifting, watching what people do in gyms and listening to sports analysts gush about “bigger, faster, stronger” and oh BTW player X is making XXXmillions because of his “stats” (oh yes, and how much better ‘sports’ are these days), all I really want to do is gag. Aren’t sports from pre-high school and up nothing more than “Pro Wrestling”? Seriously?

  206. BBFan May 16th, 2009 at 10:57 pm

    “But did that moment give you pause, if only for a split second? Be honest. I’d be curious to hear what you think because I sure can’t come up with an answer.”

    Honetly, I think you are just looking for more blog hits.

    Look, if you do not want to believe that A-Rod took PEDs for three years only in Texas, that is your right. But instead of harping on it again and again, prove he was wrong if you can. Otherwse you come across as another Selena the so called credible journalist in your words, who in fact stooped down to get some money on the book based on so called ananymous sources. No one talks about that book any way in about a week after its release.

  207. m May 16th, 2009 at 10:59 pm

    Why the obsession with how Pete feels about Alex? It’s personal, and nothing to do with us.

    Pete’s objective in his reporting, but chooses to let his “hair” down on the blog.

    We all have our favorites, and Pete’s no different.

  208. DT May 16th, 2009 at 11:00 pm

    Pete –

    the thought didn’t cross my mind when Alex homered today.

    You brought up the Pats. Every time the Pats win do you think about Belichick and Spygate?

    The man was given the largest fine among coaches in the history of the league – 1/2 mil. He cost his team a #1 draft pick. He cost his team 1/4 mil in fines.

    He cheated.

    Have other coaches done the same? Probably.(sound similar?)
    Coach B got caught. He paid the price. (sound familiar?)

    Should every newspaper story that mentions Belichick be prefaced with Spygate?

    Should every future Patriot win be scrutinized?
    Hmmm… I wonder if he’s still taping opponents?

    Should every Pat losing streak be under suspicion?
    Hmmm… I wonder if he’s not taping anymore?

    Turn the page. Take Satchel’s advice. Don’t look back, something might be gaining on you.

  209. Giuseppe Franco May 16th, 2009 at 11:01 pm

    Mike A. May 16th, 2009 at 9:39 pm

    Didn’t think about it at all, never do. I didn’t think about it whenever Giambi hit a homer and I don’t think about it whenever Pettitte throws a pitch.

    —————

    I’m with Mike A. I don’t care. Steroids didn’t even cross my mind when that ball went over the fence.

    And it never crossed my mind when Giambi hit his walk-offs (and Pete advocated voting for him to the All Star Game last year) or Pettitte has a great outing.

    Pete may have mentioned Harrison and his use of PEDs – but the Pats were caught cheating with their shenanigans against the Jets.

    He says it doesn’t matter that “everybody is doing it” because it’s wrong – but he used the same excuse when the Pats were caught filming the Jets.

    Personally, I don’t care one way or another. I’m old enough that I don’t need another childhood hero who plays a kid’s game for living.

    But Pete absolutely has shown a double-standard on this entire A-Rod steroid issue that he doesn’t have with people (Giambi and Pettitte) or teams he likes (Pats).

    Cheating is cheating. But you have to follow the same set of moral rules for everyone regardless if it’s A-Rod, Manny Ramirez, Pettitte, Giambi or Pete’s Mighty Patriots.

  210. Jeff NJ May 16th, 2009 at 11:02 pm

    I’m a Yankee fan. I was happy they won the game. End of story. The only problem I had with the final result was that A Rod overshadows Tex’s breakout game. Get used to it Tex, you are background here, which is actually one of the reasons he probably signed with the Yanks.

  211. Mike R. May 16th, 2009 at 11:04 pm

    I remember in that ST preview show, Kim asked AJ what would happen if someone else was the pie guy to him

    AJ responded “It’s all good… they’ll get a Gatorade cooler then next time”

    LOL

  212. Drive 4-5 May 16th, 2009 at 11:04 pm

    The way I look at it is that there is little chance he was on steroids when he hit the game winner today. Why not celebrate a great win and his contribution?

    It’s the game winning 9th inning home run he hit off of the Orioles in ’07 and his 500th home run ( I witnessed both at the Stadium)that I feel uneasy about. I wish I knew if my cheers at the time were supporting a cheater.

    I’ve watched A Rod play dozens of games in person and I’ve never booed him once.I dont care for A Rod’s personality or his off the field antics.As long as he played hard,gave his best effort and helped the Yankees win I could easily block out the rest. As long as he’s clean now, I’ll take the same tact. It’s either that or stop watching the game I love because he’s no different than half his peers.

    I do find it funny that before his failed drug test, Manny had this endearing image. In truth, Manny was a worse cheater than any of the others. At various times over a four year period Manny Ramirez cheated his team out of his best effort. To me, that’s a far greater sin. For me, that is a booable offense.

  213. Bryan V May 16th, 2009 at 11:05 pm

    I got a wild idea for you Pete…root for the team!

    There was absolutely no need for that post. None. We all know that ARod did them, but none of us know when exactly it happened. That’s the facts that we have to live with.

    So why did you even bother bringing it up at a time when we should be celebrating? I can’t believe that a Yankee fan, even though he’s a devout hater of everything Alex Rodriguez, would “rain on our parade” like that.

    For all of the great information you give Yankee fans, you do an awesome job of bashing some of the players on it (namely, Alex). It’s unnecessary, and certainly not appreciated by this reader nor many others whom I’ve defended you to.

  214. Manton May 16th, 2009 at 11:05 pm

    Same with Mike A. I’m pretty much over the steroids issue in baseball. Everyone’s at fault for that “era” – MLB, the Union, Selig, the players, and the fans. All I want to do right now is simply enjoy baseball, and today was a great day to do that.

  215. sar515 May 16th, 2009 at 11:05 pm

    If I follow your train of thought…
    I’d better give pause before I cheer any player.
    we all KNOW there are lots of other players who have not be called out yet…

    A-Rod was singled out. He admitted it and apologized.
    I am disappointed in him…but I am not so naive to believe every other player I’m cheering for is definitely clean.

    So, yes I cheer my player.

  216. Will Moller May 16th, 2009 at 11:07 pm

    BBfan–

    I’d suggest that Pete doesn’t need more blog hits. 2.4 million in April alone–pretty unheard of.

    Doesn’t make most arguments against him any less valid–just yours.

  217. Evan3457 May 16th, 2009 at 11:08 pm

    But would you have rather somebody else won the game?
    ====================================================
    No; anyone who wins the game for the Yanks is OK with me.

    Next topic.

  218. Ariel May 16th, 2009 at 11:09 pm

    No “pause whatsoever”!!!!! The host of this blog should do an “Pause vs no pause” poll. If the “no pause” prevails, he should agree to cease and desist from this this incessant nonsense and let’s just enjoy the game.

  219. YankeeJosh May 16th, 2009 at 11:09 pm

    DT and Giuseppe Franco bringing the heat. Both of you hit the nail on the head regarding this.

  220. steven May 16th, 2009 at 11:10 pm

    Bryan V,

    I respectfully disagree with your trashing Pete here. First of all, he’s not a Yankee fan, he’s a reporter. Second, he made it clear that it was something he was struggling with, and he just raised the question of whether others are. I don’t think he was saying that we SHOULD feel less good about it, just asking for our opinions. How many sports writers can you think of who genuinely are interested in what we all think? I can understand why you don’t want to think about these questions, but I can also understand why Pete would raise them and ask us about them. I don’t see anything wrong with it, and this whole discussion doesn’t take anything away from enjoying the Yankees winning the game.

  221. Andy Hawkins May 16th, 2009 at 11:10 pm

    I read this blog often. Very, very rarely do I ever post. I’ve been a Yankees fan all my life, but I honestly can’t stand the way Yankees fans think sometimes.

    Although he admittedly roots for the dirtiest player in football, Pete brings up a great question. Personally, unlike the great majority of fans on this board it seems, I’d consider myself a hypocrite if I said I didn’t wish anyone else on the team hit that ball out today. I think if you use steroids, you cheat. Whether you failed a random test or just admitted it after someone harrassed you into admitting it. You cheated. I don’t think A-Rod is a great example off the field regardless of the steroids, either. Sorry, but I root for good people, not just people who wear the Yankee uniform.

    If I didn’t like A-Rod in March for admitting he used steroids, why am I going to like him now when he’s hitting game-winning home runs?

    To me, the “people root for the laundry” argument is a copout. People root for players. I hate Manny Ramirez, because of the crap he pulled with the Red Sox. But I root for the Dodgers, because Don Mattingly and Joe Torre are on the bench. So this notion that you have to root for A-Rod because he wears the Yankees uniform is BS. You have to put up with A-Rod because he wears the Yankees uniform. But you don’t have to root for him…

    …and honestly, a lot of you who went crazy today when he hit that home run don’t root for him. Not all the time, anyway. The man was getting booed — loudly — on Friday, when he was struggling to even get a hit. But when he wins a game, he gets a rousing ovation and a segment of fans whining that the drugs don’t matter now. Well, if you boo a man when he fails, and cheer him when he succeeds…that’s pretty much license for a guy like A-Rod to use steroids.

    Right before the game, my wife and I were at a local mall looking for Yankees shirts for the kids. They had a pile of them, but they all had Rodriguez 13 on the back. I wouldn’t buy one. I couldn’t. I couldn’t endorse his behavior with my kids. I find him embarrassing.

    As a Yankees fan, I find it even more embarrassing that so many people don’t feel the same way because he gives them the occassional home run.

  222. Proud Yankees Fan May 16th, 2009 at 11:11 pm

    Of course not.

    I don’t consider using steroids cheating. It still takes natural talent and practice to hit major league pitching.

    We don’t over analyze other “cheating” situations in baseball. From a young age baseball players the “trick” play with the pitcher sneaking the ball to the first baseman to get a runner that leads off before the pitcher is on the mound. Even the poster boy Jeter will swipe tag when throws are off line and even if he doesn’t touch the runner he tries to “sell” it to the umpire that he did. I’ve seen this happen several times on replay, but in live action the umpire didn’t have the right angle and thought they tagged the runner. Of course things like this usually aren’t reported or simply a one liner saying there was a bad call. What about the midget Ed Gaedel being used as a batter so he would have an impossibly small strike zone. Is this not cheating? Where do you draw the line? Or do you just move on and say baseball like any other game has rules but people will try to manipulate them and that is what the game is at the time. For instance, you used to be able to call the pitch you wanted and get 9 balls, etc. so did those players cheat compared to today’s players?

  223. Erica May 16th, 2009 at 11:13 pm

    I was hurt when the story came out in February. But for whatever its worth I forgave him and I still love the guy. I was more than thrilled that Alex got this win..I think he needed this more than anything. He has to prove to himself that he can still get the job done be the big man without the big needle. He’s amazing between the lines and I pray this will get the Yankees on a role. I don’t cast judgements on people because its not my place…and I feel no guilt in cheering for him. I will always cheer for him..he’s worth cheering for.

    The fact that after all that has been written about him and he is still standing and thriving is amazing. He’s amazing..and what you tell kids is this..NO one is perfect sometimes people makes mistakes..Alex used drugs he was wrong he know he was wrong..you learn from his mistake and don’t do what he did! But you don’t turn your back on him you forgive. So kids are learning three life lessons here
    1.No one is Perfect(not even Jeter ugh)
    2. Learn from other peoples mistakes
    3.Forgiveness is okay!
    and Alex Rodriguez is still the best player on the Yankees and in MLB!

  224. Phil May 16th, 2009 at 11:14 pm

    I amazes me that a sportswriter or any serious fans didn’t know what had been going on in baseball for over 20 years. It’s been in the NFL for over 40 years. Anyway, you cheer for the uniform if you think the cheaters aren’t on both sides, which they were. We’ve had even playing fields in both sports during the PED era’s because their use was so widespread. It’s what they had to do so that they weren’t passed up by the ones who were doing it. The reason to cheer ARod now is because he’s been the target of so much abject stupidity and phony baloney hypocrisy and he’s going to overcome it.

  225. Ariel May 16th, 2009 at 11:15 pm

    Unfortunately, A-Rod is taking the pie in the face for the 103 PLUS others who are similarly situated. If there is to be a “Pause” it should be ongoing and for everyone. Ultimately, an “unnamed source” will disclose the remaining 103 and our host, as well as the rest of the press, will certainly treasure the moment.

  226. Rivera May 16th, 2009 at 11:17 pm

    The PED issue didn’t enter my thoughts at all. Just glad we won the game. I was happy when Giambi and Shef hit HRs and won games for us as well. PEDs are available and no matter what players will use them. It’s not right that they do, it’s a bad example for America’s youth. The reality is that a lot of people will sell their soul for money and fame.

  227. TD123 May 16th, 2009 at 11:18 pm

    The one who deserves blame is Selig for enabling this.

    Boo Selig, take your anger out on him. This “era” is his creation.

  228. GreenBeret7 May 16th, 2009 at 11:20 pm

    I sure wish that I had a cross to crawl down from like a bunch of you do.

  229. Yazman (aka David) May 16th, 2009 at 11:21 pm

    Just $0.02 from one fan/blog reader’s perspective:

    Most interesting: cover the game, the players, the inside game.

    Somewhat interesting: latest developments in rules and testing to rid the game of banned PEDs.

    Least interesting: individual player PED expose’s and discussions.

  230. Rockin' Rich May 16th, 2009 at 11:22 pm

    Not sure why it would be relevant to mention it.

    If you did, you’d have to mention in every story and in every reference to Arod and that would be crazy.

    Not saying to ignore it but only mention when there’s a reason to, not every time he gets a hit or whatever.

    My 2¢.

  231. Drive 4-5 May 16th, 2009 at 11:23 pm

    I hate the fact that A Rod turned out to be lying about being clean. I won’t beleive another word he says.

    However, I have just as much distaste for the way he was outed. It took a crooked federal prosector and a unscrupulous writer to expose A Rod. Neither of them should be any more proud of themselves than A Rod is. It is sickening to watch the media play themselves as moralists while profiting on every piece of dirt they can find. Mike Lupica is a perfect example.

  232. Richie May 16th, 2009 at 11:25 pm

    This is silly for one reason: We don’t know who is cheating and who isn’t, but it’s more likely than not that a huge number of players are cheating that we don’t know about.

    All I ask is that players admit it, no matter what motivated them to do it.

    So I’m fine with A-Rod winning the game; more than fine, I’m thrilled. He’s just another flawed human being like most of the rest of us.

    bfd

  233. andrew May 16th, 2009 at 11:26 pm

    honestly pete, i was at the stadium and saw the walk off. i didnt hesitate in rooting for him, if anything, i felt happy for him cause I know he means right and watching his run the bases like a little leaguer, it almost brings the innocents back to baseball. it was a really great moment.

  234. The Ghost May 16th, 2009 at 11:28 pm

    The Thurm, I wonder if your grandfather told your father that he wouldn’t root for Babe Ruth because he drank too much and cheated on his wife. What about all the old time players that took greenies after a long night of drinking? Face it, there are and always will be people who will do whatever they can to get an edge in this world. Your advice to your son – that cheaters never win – is that a religious thing? Because that’s a slippery slope depending on your definition of winning. By the shallow contemporary definition – making the most money and getting the most fame – then I’d say that cheaters mostly win. Now from an inner spiritual definition you might have a point, but make sure you explain and qualify that to your son because he might just call you out on it when he gets out in the real world and sees how vacant and corrupt it really is out there.

  235. jake May 16th, 2009 at 11:29 pm

    I honestly think this was the worst thing you can do is write this article. You are a Yankee beat writer…YOU SUPPORT THE YANKEES and Arod…he took the roids in TEX and is CLEAN. Give the guy a break. NO I WANTED HIM TO WIN IT!!!! HE’S the beeesssssssssst player in baseball no matter what anyone says. This was not a good choice on your part to write this article.

  236. David May 16th, 2009 at 11:29 pm

    Did you have such qualms about Giambi? We never head about them…

  237. jerseybillfromva May 16th, 2009 at 11:29 pm

    Pete, despite what everyone says or wants to believe; it is all about winning. Examples; Hated Clemens before he was a yankee, hate him now. But I rooted for him to k every batter as a yank. Have the same feelings for Sheffield, the Unit, Straw, Steve Howe, Barfield, etc.. A-fraud is just todays anti-hero that I’ll cheer when he helps us win and cheer louder when he’s gone!

  238. Drive 4-5 May 16th, 2009 at 11:30 pm

    As uncomfortable as it might make some folks,I think Pete is asking a fair question.

  239. Zooboy May 16th, 2009 at 11:30 pm

    I don’t pause in the moment when it’s A-Rod who hits it out. But later, when that feeling wanes just a bit, I kind of wish it were someone with a clean reputation. I know exactly the reason, too — sports is my escape from the real world.

    Economy sucks. Work goes hot and cold. But during the season, there always a chance for something special to unfold.

    I want to root for my team, and the players, without outside distractions. Steriods taint that illusion. Just for this tiny area of my life, I really would’nt mind the truth not ruining a great story. There’s plenty of that going on in the real world.

    So when the shot arches out past the leftfield wall, and I watch A-Rod fling his helmet before jumping into the arms of his teammates, I don’t wish is were another player. It’s poetry.

    A few beats pass, though, and I realize the story will be tainted. And I kinda wish someone else had hit it out.

  240. KLev May 16th, 2009 at 11:31 pm

    Yeah. Thought about it.

    Seems like the cheating may be subsiding, just based on the fact that we seem to be seeing fewer freak cases — guys doing things that had never been done before. Was listing to the radio yesterday, can’t remember who it was, but they were talking about how Gary Sheffield suddenly looks like he’s 40. Not like a few years ago when “40 was the new 30″ but “40 like it used to be.” Same when you look at Papi’s numbers — uh, more like in the Twinkie days than when he was killing the Yanks. Maybe he’s clean, hope he is, but sure looks like a roid’er breaking down.
    My thinking: Hall of Fame puts all players who played between 1990 and 2007 on the same wall and there is a plaque that says: “Records from this era count, but it should be noted that in this era in baseball, a significant number of players used steroids. Not everyone used, but many did.” Sorry if that tarnishes likely non-cheats like Jeter, Ripken and Maddox, but they also didn’t speak up.

  241. Andy Hawkins May 16th, 2009 at 11:32 pm

    Man, if I was a player reading these comments, I’d use steroids. All people care about are the results. If A-Rod popped out in that spot, he’d have been booed and everyone would have wondered if being off the juice had robbed him of his power.

    Fans have to want steroids out of the game. I honestly don’t think a lot of people on this board would care if a guy pumped HGH into himself while he stood in the on-deck circle, as long as he hit a home run that at-bat.

    Bet if Manny hit a walk-off home run to beat the Yankees, there’d be 2,500 comments on here calling Manny a Steroids Cheat.

  242. Harley May 16th, 2009 at 11:32 pm

    Not even for a little moment. I don’t think about booze when I see an old clip of Mantle. I don’t think of Greenies when I see a clip of just about any player in the 60s and 70s. And I’m bored to tears over all the hand-wringing when it comes to steroids. I enjoy the game to much to limit its value in the service of my own pious rectitude.

    Better still, here’s a piece on steroids/drugs in sports, http://www.salon.com/env/featu.....index.html. It comes to us from a gentleman who is a member of the UC-Berkeley Institute for Cognitive and Brain Sciences. Which is to say he lives in this century, not the last.

    One more point. Steroids had no more to do with A-Rod’s home run today than having sex with Madonna did.

  243. Infernoscurse May 16th, 2009 at 11:33 pm

    if my brother is suspended from school getting caught for smoking marijuana i dont endorse his acts but hes still part of me and family so i root for him and in his mistakes i let him know my displeasure about it and the dissapointment, but when he thrives then i cheer for him because hes part of me and the family, so i dont endore on arod cheating and making a mistake but i root for him and cheer when he does good because he makes the team good and we are like a family.

    Now if you want to live with doubt and with hatred in your heart not being able to forgive then thats your internal problem that you have to deal with, sure the family member may do some other mistake and you have to lift him up and forgive again but thats what being part of a family is all about, i wouldnt like being pinpointed and given their back when i make mistakes

  244. hardwired May 16th, 2009 at 11:33 pm

    It’s always there, in the back of my mind, and it always will be. He’s not someone you’d want to call as a character witness.

    If it diminished the moment, it was by no more than an ethereal degree. When it comes to the Yanks, I take a Machiavellian approach.

  245. John May 16th, 2009 at 11:33 pm

    Pete,

    To be honest, I have no idea, as a fan, what the proper procedure is. Am I suppose to boo A-Rod or actively root for him to fail? Are you suppose to root against Rodney Harrison? Then how could we truly be fans, and what would the point be in watching sports anymore?
    I have had to push this stuff out of my mind in order to enjoy the game. Steroids have already ruined the fond memories I had of that 1998 season, and has already made me question many of the players I watched in this era. It is incredibly sad to me that I will never be able to speak to my kids about many of the talents of this era of baseball the way my father spoke to me about Mickey Mantle, and his father about Lou Gehrig and Joe Dimaggio. Luckily, my favorite players (Don Mattingly, Derek Jeter, Mariano Rivera) are unscathed by the scandals, but it still puts a black cloud over the game.
    A-Rod is a player on this team and, as such, I root for him to succeed. You asked whether I would have rather had someone else win the game today? Yes. I would have much preferred it be Jeter or Matsui, to be totally frank, but the important thing is the win. It doesn’t mean I excuse A-Rod cheating or that it doesn’t effect me, but as a fan I have a choice – let steroids completely ruin the game for me or push it out of my mind and just try and enjoy the game.
    At this point, I have to just block it out.

  246. Tarheelyank May 16th, 2009 at 11:34 pm

    My first thought was good for Arod. Now stop booing idiots.

    How do you know the pitcher Breslow never used steroids? Or Mauer or Morneau? Nobody is above suspicion.

    If I feel like blaming someone, I think about when Sosa and Mcguire were hitting all those Homers. Mr Selig and crew were rolling in the money, yet they didn’t have a clue? That’s when I get angry.

  247. Jill R May 16th, 2009 at 11:35 pm

    You could tell – those guys waiting for A-Rod to round those bases – were THRILLED and ECSTATIC that he got this game winning hit.

    I take my cue from them. It seems his steroid days are behind him.

    He’s forgiven in my book……

  248. carl May 16th, 2009 at 11:38 pm

    Is that Pete on wfan?

  249. srane May 16th, 2009 at 11:38 pm

    No pause. Get over it already – it’s just boring now. Time to move forward.

  250. Ed May 16th, 2009 at 11:40 pm

    It is much harder to root for any pro team these days.

  251. Andy Hawkins May 16th, 2009 at 11:44 pm

    Infernoscurse, unless you’re Brett Gardner under a pen name, you’re not family to the Yankees. You’re a paying customer. Your brother who got caught with the Mary-J, he’s family, and you’re obligated to be there for him. A-Rod’s not your brother. He doesn’t know who you are!!!!! Why do you owe him your undying support? He lied to you! He set a lousy example for your kids! You boo him when he strikes out with two on and two out! You cheering for him has nothing to do with family. You cheer because you feel good that the Yankees won, and you don’t care how it happened.

    Given that, how can you boo him for using steroids? The answer, of course, is that you don’t. You boo him for striking out. So, just admit what everyone else should too: That you don’t really care if he did steroids or not and that, in fact, you’d prefer he currently was on them if it would make him a hitter who could hit a few more walk-offs.

  252. dadofjft May 16th, 2009 at 11:47 pm

    Skimming these responses is depressing but not surprising. I think most fans want their team to win and aren’t too worried about the rest. And that’s all I want to do, too. That what depresses me so much about each revelation over the past few years. It takes away my ability to unconditionally cheer for my team.

    While I don’t boo Yankees, I can’t cheer for people I think are cheaters. I was there today and didn’t cheer for Alex. I also don’t cheer for Andy Pettitte. And I dread learning who I can’t cheer for next.

  253. Steve May 16th, 2009 at 11:47 pm

    I think Pete has raised a great question. When you try to think about the ethics of a situation like this though, the greatest question is where do we draw the line? And this goes for all aspects of the issue. Is it OK to cheer for a player who has admitted using steroids, but claims not to be anymore? Or should we all be so vehemently opposed to the sacrilegious actions of todays players in the shadow of so many hallowed records? Should we not be allowed to celebrate our team winning today, because the player who won the game has admitted to cheating in the past? Should we deny ourselves the elation of a walk off homerun because of the person who hit it. Is this not the very action, the very situation that makes baseball itself so exciting.

    Let me ask you this. If a player in the 1940′s started to have problems with his elbows, could he get a cortisone shot? Or could he get Tommy John Surgery to repair his ligaments? How many players had their careers ended early, that might have been able to continue on if they had access to modern medical technology? Even if we ignore all the PED issues, todays players have a multitude of advantages over the generations that came before.

    And if you think that the game of baseball was a clean sport until the steroids movement started in the 1980′s, you need to rethink your history. Spitballs, pine tar, sand paper, and scuff marks have been around as long as the game has been played. Hell, pitchers in the 1950′s were so hopped up on amphetamines its a wonder that any of them ever slept at night.

    But you know what the difference is between what cheaters in this game did in the past, and what they’ve done recently is? Today’s cheaters not only broke the laws of baseball, but they broke the law, period. They’ve misused controlled substances, and they’ve done it on a massive scale in front of a nationwide audience. But this is America. This is what the country has become. And this is America’s game. We;re a nation of laws, a nation of rules. And these laws and these rules exist so that people can make money on both sides of them. Let’s face it, if HGH was not a controlled substance, it probably wouldn’t cost more than cough medicine. Instead, players have to go through illegal means to purchase PEDS, which is a business controlled by people with political influence. That influence keeps the demand high and the heat low by paying off the right politicians. And we continue to vote for politicians in a two party system who continue to prove to be corrupt.

    But I’m Ok with all of this. Because this is reality, and this is the world that we live in. You can spend your life fighting it, or you can accept it and make the best of it. We all know baseball is corrupt, just like we all know our country is corrupt. But whether you choose to buy the 5$ obstructed view seat in the shadow of a sports bar, or the $2,500 seat in the middle of of Legends barren wasteland, you’re supporting the sport. So don’t boo anyone over steroids. Because you can never tell what the next guy you’re cheering for has done. The only way to stay out of the hypocrisy would be to ignore baseball completely, and I love being a fan way too much for that.

    I’ll boo A-Rod when he strikes out, when he hits into a double play, or when he hits a pop fly to end an inning, and again fails to live up to his contract. But when he hits a walk off home run to win a game in the 11th, I’m going to cheer like everyone else. You know why? Because this sport costs too much, and gives too much, to not enjoy every last bit of it.

    -Steve

  254. Brandon Pie "Because it's the thing to do in this stadium" May 16th, 2009 at 11:48 pm

    LOL we must be getting good.

  255. miggs May 16th, 2009 at 11:49 pm

    “So, just admit what everyone else should too: That you don’t really care if he did steroids or not and that, in fact, you’d prefer he currently was on them if it would make him a hitter who could hit a few more walk-offs.”

    Well not prefer. But I want the team to win. What the players put into their bodies is their issue, ethically and physically.

    Honestly Andy Hawkins, get off your high horse. Spitballs are cheating. Stealing signs…cheating. Pine tar…cheating. Guys look for an edge.

    The world isn’t a Disney cartoon.

  256. Mike May 16th, 2009 at 11:55 pm

    Players have been cheating since there have been games. No one seemed too concerned with this until the “cheating” involved PEDS. While I would be more than happy if PEDs disappeared from the game forever, I know that they never will. They are here to stay. The producers of PEDs will always be at least one step ahead of the testers. They’ve been part of the game for at least two decades nows, and they will be part of the game for the next 20, 40, 60, etc. years.

    The media is far more concerned with this than the fans. If we’re really truly concerned about this, let’s figure out exactly what PEDs do for a player’s performance.

  257. GreenBeret7 May 16th, 2009 at 11:56 pm

    Drive 4-5
    May 16th, 2009 at 11:30 pm
    As uncomfortable as it might make some folks,I think Pete is asking a fair question.

    ————————————————————

    He’s had two years to ponder the same question about Pettitte and about 5 years to ponder Giambi’s fun-loving ways, but, never a word. You hear about Rodriguez being a phoney because he “colors the tips of his hair and uses a tanning booth”. Of course, he was a phoney for taking his shirt off in the sun (while with his family) in Central Park, too, like probably a thousand a day do in Central Park (and some of those are guys, too). It’s the same sanctimonious BS. These are not made up. These are direct quotes from here, less than a year ago.

  258. PittsburghYankeeFan May 16th, 2009 at 11:57 pm

    I read this stuff in this blog–why? Why do I continue to read it? Is it that I can’t resist? Kind of like looking at a traffic accident?

    Pete, get over it. You seem to love the Patriots, yet where are the “second thoughts” about them clearly cheating (filming the D line signals in direct violation of the rules) during their three superbowl runs? Does this “cheapen” your feelings towards them? If it does, I never heard you say so.

    This whole steroids thing permeated baseball. The Red Sox were likely among the biggest users (if you tell me Ortiz didn’t use them I won’t stop laughing), and the spotlight only got deflected from them due to George Mitchell. Should the Sox fans feel that their WS titles were tainted?

    The answer to all of this is a big NO. It’s over. The game now has defined rules where a few years ago it didn’t. Violate them now–you’re toast. Violate them a few years ago–that has to be OK.

    It wasn’t cheating until the recent rules made it so. How hard is that to understand?

  259. Cliff May 16th, 2009 at 11:57 pm

    I was there, loved every minute of it and jumped up and down like a mad man. To be honest after everything Arod has been through he is the one player I wanted to win it, this coming from Jeters biggest fan.

  260. Andy Hawkins May 16th, 2009 at 11:59 pm

    Stealing signs are are part of the game.

    Pine tar is cheating? Really? Pine tar? You’re comparing pine tar to anabolic steroids?

    You just admitted that you don’t care if a player uses steroids as long as it is helping your team win. So…is it ok for Big Papi to use them if he’s beating the Yankees with walk-off homers? It’s not all about the Yankees, man.

    I don’t expect the world to be a Disney Cartoon. I just expect baseball to be fair, and people who get paid $30 million a year to act like professionals on and off the field.

  261. Cliff May 17th, 2009 at 12:00 am

    By the way, I think it is a joke that after a big home run one of the first thing to come from Pete is roid talk. Then again, I wouldn’t expect anything less at this point.

  262. James May 17th, 2009 at 12:01 am

    I think what the biggest thing I saw after the walk-off today compared to yesterday, was that more guys were around Melky after his walk-off hit today than there were around A-Rod today. I think that speaks volumes if that was noticed.

  263. GreenBeret7 May 17th, 2009 at 12:05 am

    James
    May 17th, 2009 at 12:01 am
    I think what the biggest thing I saw after the walk-off today compared to yesterday, was that more guys were around Melky after his walk-off hit today than there were around A-Rod today. I think that speaks volumes if that was noticed.

    ————————————————————

    Tell me that you didn’t roll the tapes from yesterday and today to count the players.

  264. Stop. May 17th, 2009 at 12:06 am

    That is simply not true, James…go to the videotape.

    And it’s a completely fair question…an interesting one, too. Thanks, Pete. Scary people out tonight.

    BTW, I cheered.

  265. Angel - A tale told by idiots, full of sound and fury - signifying nothing. May 17th, 2009 at 12:07 am

    As a Yankees fan, I find it even more embarrassing that so many people don’t feel the same way because he gives them the occassional home run.

    ********************************************

    I think you’re oversimplifying what people have said.

    You don’t need to feel embarrassed for me, anymore than I need to feel embarrassed for you for not feeling the same way do. I respect and even understand how you feel – apparently thats a one-way street, though.

    I’m perfectly capable of being accountable for my own beliefs and opinions. I’m not about to martyr myself over this issue though.

  266. Betsy May 17th, 2009 at 12:08 am

    Good article about the kids:

    http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com.....8;c_id=nyy

  267. Angel - A tale told by idiots, full of sound and fury - signifying nothing. May 17th, 2009 at 12:08 am

    Scary indeed.

    Must be a full moon tonight, Stop.

  268. Timmy May 17th, 2009 at 12:10 am

    “I think what the biggest thing I saw after the walk-off today compared to yesterday, was that more guys were around Melky after his walk-off hit today than there were around A-Rod today. I think that speaks volumes if that was noticed.”

    Noticed that too. This celebration was tame compared to last night. As Pete said, I’m sure some players are conflicted about it.

  269. Scott May 17th, 2009 at 12:11 am

    I didn’t pause. I said hell yeah Yankees won and I am glad Arod did it. The way I look at it is if he hits like he did in 2007 we have a better chance of getting to the world series and all I care about is the Yankees getting there and winning it.

  270. Source 23 May 17th, 2009 at 12:12 am

    Don’t you think there is a reason the world is treating Manny, Giambi, etc. differently than they do A-Rod?

    It’s not because his offense is less serious. It is the way he carries himself.

  271. Pepitone May 17th, 2009 at 12:12 am

    Pete – “Taking PEDs is cheating. It impugns the integrity of the game and it’s unfair to those players who perform naturally. It doesn’t matter if “everybody” does it or whether somebody used it once or twice. Right is right and wrong is wrong.”
    ………………………………
    I agree, Pete, and I happen to be a Patriots fan too (as he ducks from the flying debris). I don’t want to support anyone who is using performance enhancing drugs. When Ben Johnson won the 100 m in World Record time, I thought wow, what a performance, then we discovered he used a PHD, and it really took the joy out of track and field for me, and I’m a former miler. You are always wondering now, is he taking something? Marion Jones admission was another heartbreaker, especially after she swore she never took anything. Of course Floyd Landis in cycling, and you see what I mean. Enough!
    The powers that be need to do whatever is necessary to get these drugs out of sports.

  272. Betsy May 17th, 2009 at 12:12 am

    Are you serious, James? Did you not see how the players were motioning with their hands for Alex to hurry to home plate? They were ecstatic – I saw Gardner practically climb over AJ to get to Alex (it was hilarious, actually) – for one – they acted like little boys. I guess Alex is the new ink blot test – people see in him what they want to see.

  273. Andy Hawkins May 17th, 2009 at 12:13 am

    Sorry Angel, I can’t respect an opinion when the opinion is “it’s OK to do steroids if you’re helping my team win.”

    I understand a lot of what is being said. I understand the forgive and forget thing. I understand that people love the game and want to believe that nothing can taint it. I understand the frustration with Pete, because he never did bring up the same types of issues when Giambi and Andy had success — and believe me, my frustration and embarrassment isn’t just limited to A-Rod. I want to root for Andy the way I used to, but I can’t. It feels a little empty when he wins, honestly.

    But a lot of people are taking the, I don’t care as long as he helps us win, approach. Which is pretty hypocritical, if you ask me.

  274. Bayside May 17th, 2009 at 12:13 am

    A cheater should NOT get into the HOF, regardless of the “era” he played in.

    The era was created because of people like A-Rod who wanted an edge, so why should it be excused?

  275. Cliff May 17th, 2009 at 12:14 am

    After thinking about it, I think it is a fair question and Arod brought the situation on himself. My comment about Pete was probably unfair and a reflection of frustration over his Arod bashing overall.

    Like I said I was there cheering today and will be cheering every HR till he gets to 800.

  276. Kenny May 17th, 2009 at 12:15 am

    Betsy – They did the same thing for Melky’s HR against Oakland. It was not some “sign of unity”, it is common in walkoff HRs.

    They didn’t do it for Melky because his was a walkoff single. Big difference.

  277. Angel - A tale told by idiots, full of sound and fury - signifying nothing. May 17th, 2009 at 12:15 am

    Noticed that too. This celebration was tame compared to last night. As Pete said, I’m sure some players are conflicted about it.

    **********************************************

    So what were those players who where making some kind of restrained protest doing during these celebrations that secretly conflicted them? Were they standing there with symbolic crosses on their backs and black ash crosses on their foreheads looking secretly pained while jumping into the middle of the pile and high fiving?

    I really think you might be reaching, just a tad.

  278. Drive 4-5 May 17th, 2009 at 12:15 am

    Andy Hawkins,

    What’s your take on the trainers from every major league team handing out amphetemines (greenies) in the 60′s and 70′s? Even Mike Schmidt admitted he used greenies. Players have looked to phamaceuticals for an edge for over 40 years. I’m not saying it’s right. It’s just the way it is.

  279. Cliff May 17th, 2009 at 12:16 am

    As much as it suck performance enhancers were/are part of sports. If you don’t want to cheer for a player who possibly cheated you better not watch sports

  280. Yanks 78 May 17th, 2009 at 12:17 am

    Betsy, they would have done that if it it was Ramiro Pena who hit the HR. It wasn’t unique to Alex. They did it to Melky when he had his walkoff HR vs. the A’s. All teams do it, just like pieing guys.

  281. frank from chatham May 17th, 2009 at 12:18 am

    SJ44… you can write!

    And, Pete was ok with his writing too!

  282. Cliff May 17th, 2009 at 12:18 am

    IF people are counting how many players are around someone after a walk off hit you have wayyyyyyy to much time on your hands. I would be shocked if any player was not at homeplate waiting for Arod

  283. Regulator May 17th, 2009 at 12:18 am

    A team is not going to win a championship while ARod is here

    We just can’t win with the 24+1 mentality

  284. pat May 17th, 2009 at 12:18 am

    “This celebration was tame compared to last night. As Pete said, I’m sure some players are conflicted about it.”

    Or they didn’t want to jump on a guy who just had a hip surgically repaired 2 months ago.

    Who hugged Melky who didn’t hug Alex? I want names!

  285. Giuseppe Franco May 17th, 2009 at 12:19 am

    He’s had two years to ponder the same question about Pettitte and about 5 years to ponder Giambi’s fun-loving ways, but, never a word. You hear about Rodriguez being a phoney because he “colors the tips of his hair and uses a tanning booth”. Of course, he was a phoney for taking his shirt off in the sun (while with his family) in Central Park, too, like probably a thousand a day do in Central Park (and some of those are guys, too). It’s the same sanctimonious BS. These are not made up. These are direct quotes from here, less than a year ago.

    ————–

    Yep, that’s exactly right.

    Pete struggles with these moral dilemmas because the culprit is A-Rod and that’s the truth.

    He doesn’t have these same struggles with Pettitte, Giambi, or his “Mighty Patriots.”

    I respect what Pete does because he certainly brings a lot of entertaining and great information about our favorite baseball team.

    But the nonstop sanctimonious BS and unnecessary cheap shots at A-Rod simply because he’s an easy target is ridiculous and Pete gets upset when people call him on it.

  286. Erik Sec. 309 May 17th, 2009 at 12:20 am

    I cheer for ARod. I don’t boo him when he doesn’t succeed and call him “ARoid” like half of the fans in the ballpark did today….These same people cheered him when he hit the homerun.

    ARod’s transgressions do not make him that atypical as far as baseball players go. The players union (many of whom have done the same things) were more than happy to throw him under the bus. So yes, I cheer him. He is a Yankee. I cheer for the Yankees.

  287. m May 17th, 2009 at 12:20 am

    Pepitone,

    You’re a Yankee/Lakers/Patriots fan, too? I catch a lot of heat here for that.

  288. Carl from CA May 17th, 2009 at 12:21 am

    Andy used HGH to heal quickly from an injury to help his team

    A-Rod used it so he would have better stats and live up to his contract

    Big difference

  289. pat May 17th, 2009 at 12:21 am

    “A cheater should NOT get into the HOF, regardless of the “era” he played in.”

    Too late.

  290. Yank1 May 17th, 2009 at 12:22 am

    Francessa is going to go nuts about the pieing. He hates that kind of stuff, doesn’t think it is the “Yaneke way”.

    Even though JJ Putz does it too, but they are the loveable Mutts so its ok

  291. Betsy May 17th, 2009 at 12:23 am

    Kenny, I’m not sure what you’re point is. Melky WAS pied, by the way……but that had nothing to do with what I was saying. I have no clue how anyone could compare the two walk-off wins and say that Alex’ reception was less enthusiastic………….well, I do have a clue. Those who don’t like Alex are just inclined to look for any little negative. In this case, those folks are just wrong.

  292. Phil May 17th, 2009 at 12:24 am

    There’s going to be a whole generation of players missing from the Hall of Fame if they don’t contextualize the PED issue and realize most of the best players were still the best players.

  293. SZ [Corto A] May 17th, 2009 at 12:25 am

    Anyone else find it kind of funny that AJ is the practical joker despite the fact that he has the highest ERA on the team of the starters?

  294. Angel - A tale told by idiots, full of sound and fury - signifying nothing. May 17th, 2009 at 12:25 am

    I think you’re maybe misinterpreting support for a person as a player of a team, as categorical support for everything about them though. They’re not mutually exclusive at all. I support A-Rod as a player on the team I’m a fan of. I don’t support his choices. I think its possible to do both.

    I don’t think people believe the game is pure and untainted. You’d have to have been living in a cave for the last 100 years to believe that. :) Quite the opposite actually. I think most people are so jaded they aren’t quite sure who is guilty and who is not. Not only that, they’re not even sure when in started and how long is been going on. I think segregation “tainted” baseball about as much as the steroids era has.

    Anyway, I really do understand your conflicted position and I thank you for a thoughtful and respectful response.

  295. Betsy May 17th, 2009 at 12:26 am

    Francesca will be upset because he thinks the whipped cream would be wasted – he’d rather shovel the whipped cream down himself. Seriously – let him be upset about that if he wants to be. It will just show that he’s a miserably unhappy person and that’s his problem.

  296. Jeff NJ May 17th, 2009 at 12:26 am

    wow, even ardent Pete defenders accuse him of having a chip on his shoulder re A Rod. I just hope we don’t get another variation of this posting every time A Rod wins a game for us.

  297. Tom K May 17th, 2009 at 12:26 am

    Carl from CA -

    I just love it how people are so eager to just believe what Pettitte had to say about the matter. Truth is, we have no idea how much truth there is in Pettitte’s statements – but he knows how beloved he is…and since he comes off as an honest human being, we believe his story.

    In my mind, anyone who is caught will admit what they did…to a certain point. If the public buys it, why go any further?

    I would love to believe Andy – but perhaps I should believe Manny that his was for a “medical condition”. Perhaps I should also believe that A-Rod only did it in one year in Texas. (And if that IS true, then why should I think twice about a home run he hits six years later?)

  298. Harold May 17th, 2009 at 12:27 am

    You have to exclude players who became great players because of stoerids like McGuire, Sosa, Palmiero, Ortiz etc.

    But you have to look at players who were great regardless of PED use like A-Rod, Clemens, Bonds, Manny, etc.

  299. pat May 17th, 2009 at 12:27 am

    Phil

    Or, a player is going to be inducted and their PEDs use will be found out after the fact.

  300. jennifer May 17th, 2009 at 12:28 am

    I love the ‘new’ Yankees. You can see they are really having fun with each other. Maybe the old button down Yankee way no longer works.

  301. Pepitone May 17th, 2009 at 12:28 am

    I meant PED, not PHD, sheesh.

    By the way, I am a Patriot fan who is tired of Bill Belichek and his act. His tight lipped, snappy, short sentence, no insight press conferences grate on me. Then, you take his poor sportsmanship with Tony Dungee, and Tom Coghlin, and wrap that around the videotaping incident with the Giants, and I’ll be honest with you, I wished they had fired him.

    He is a heck of a coach, and I appreciate the three Super Bowls – and I went through the misery of the Mike Holovak and Clive Revell years. However, there is something more important than winning, and that is winning with integrity.

    If you can’t win without cheating, or using some kind of drug to get an edge, then find something else to do!

  302. Kenny May 17th, 2009 at 12:28 am

    “Anyone else find it kind of funny that AJ is the practical joker despite the fact that he has the highest ERA on the team of the starters?”

    lol I was wondering that myself. Time for him to step up on the mound, if he wants to keep pieing guys.

  303. Andy Hawkins May 17th, 2009 at 12:29 am

    Drive 4-5…To me, greenies were wrong, but they weren’t performance enhancers, per se. They were basically pep pills. Were they bad for you? Yes. But they weren’t seen as wrong by the players. Steroids are seen as wrong, and players know it. We know a lot more now than we did then.

    Greenies enabled people to take the field. Steroids enabled people to hit monstrous home runs. I’m not saying either is right. Just in the grand scheme, greenies were probably not as beneficial as steroids.

    Not that I’d condone the use of either. Right now, both are illegal, so they’re just as bad.

  304. Timmy May 17th, 2009 at 12:30 am

    The “old buttoned down” Yankees under Torre got to the playoffs 13 straight years, 6 AL pennants, 4 WS titles.

    The “boring Yankees” rallied from huge deficits in 05 and 07 to make the playoffs.

    Let’s see these “new” Yankees do that before we patronize them. Most would agree that winning is more important than this silly “great chemistry”.

  305. Betsy May 17th, 2009 at 12:30 am

    Ok, who said this was about Alex, Yanks 78? If you read the posts before mine, there are two people claiming that the celebration today was tamer compared to that for Melky – that’s absolutely not true (they’re probably the same) but who’d be comparing them anyway? That’s just odd. While obviously any team would be ecstatic over anyone of their teammates hitting a walk-off HR, I think the guys were definitely happy for Alex…..

  306. Subway Squawkers May 17th, 2009 at 12:30 am

    Serious question – nine of the 2000 Yankees were in the Mitchell Report. Do any of the fans beating up on A-Rod feel “conflicted” about the 2000 World Series win?

  307. Guard May 17th, 2009 at 12:31 am

    The 05 and 06 teams with the “clubhosue cancers” Sheffield and Randy won the AL East and 95+ games.

    I’ll take that over pies in the face any day.

  308. Tom K May 17th, 2009 at 12:31 am

    I find it kinda strange that people would have a problem with a group of 25 baseball players having fun.

    If they win, they can urinate on the field for all I care – Francesa just needs things to stir up interest in his show…he needs to be more ridiculous because he lost his over-the-top partner.

  309. Lifer 65 May 17th, 2009 at 12:33 am

    Who cars if some outcasts like Grimsely, Canseco, Stanton etc. were in the report?

    As long as O’Neil, Tino, Jeter, Bernie, etc. were clean, the championship is legit.

    Unfortunately, A-Rod will be a prominent part of any championship we win, and it will be tainted.

  310. m May 17th, 2009 at 12:33 am

    Pies and division crowns are not mutually exclusive.

  311. LAX May 17th, 2009 at 12:35 am

    AJ is going to look pretty silly if he still tries to be the clubhouse clown while sporting an ERA over 5.

    Right now, he is the weakest link on the pitching staff. CC has stepped up. Joba has stepped up. Pettite has more than we expected for a #5 starter. AJ needs to step up and join the party if he wants to continue to be a joker.

    He seems like a nice guy, but it just looks bad if he continues to do this while not performing up to his contract.

  312. Peter Abraham May 17th, 2009 at 12:37 am

    Thanks again to all of those who had an intelligent response to the question I posed. Like I said, there is no right or wrong I just find it interesting.

    Meanwhile, I feel badly for the poor souls who ripped me for raising the issue. Sorry if I made you uncomfortable for having to think a little.

    Once again, thanks for those who participated. I have always thought this blog has intelligent readers and you proved it again.

  313. DMan May 17th, 2009 at 12:37 am

    lol. Pete posts a legit thought provoking question and the usual suspects try and paint this as Pete being “Anti-ARod”.

    Hilarious.

  314. Tarheelyank May 17th, 2009 at 12:38 am

    “Unfortunately, A-Rod will be a prominent part of any championship we win, and it will be tainted.”

    OK Arod just hit a walk-off WS winning homer off of JC Romero is it still tainted?

  315. Pepitone May 17th, 2009 at 12:38 am

    m – “You’re a Yankee/Lakers/Patriots fan, too?”

    Sure am, since 1963-64 seasons. That’s when I really started getting interested in things other than flying kites, playing with yo yos, swimming at the community pool, going to the movies, and playing ditch em with my friends. As a matter of fact, I wanted to be a professional basketball player when I was 14 (1964).

    I have to admit, I really don’t like this present Laker team. Jackson makes too many excuses for a outfit that plays only when they feel like playing. If they get past Houston tomorrow, I don’t see them beating Denver, i.e., unless they develop a new personality. And as Mark Jackson said the other night; “the Lakers are what they are, they aren’t changing now.”

  316. Betsy May 17th, 2009 at 12:40 am

    I disagree, LAX – the guy is trying and he hasn’t been as bad as people think despite the #s. That’s really not the point, though. He’s been a darn good teammate – very supportive of Wang, for one – and he brings a little boy attitude towards the game. He’s not a clubhouse clown (that’s Swish)- in fact, he’s a quiet guy – but he happens to enjoy pieing guys. It’s fun – I’d rather have him do that than mope and sulk even during his struggles.

  317. pat May 17th, 2009 at 12:40 am

    What did you want AJ to contribute yesterday or today?

    If he has a horrible game and then pies someone hat day, you MIGHT have a point. If he’s keeping the mood light on his off days, I say pie away.

  318. West side May 17th, 2009 at 12:40 am

    Root for the laundry.

    Don’t develop a connect with a certain player.

    Makes it much easier.

  319. Betsy May 17th, 2009 at 12:40 am

    I don’t even see why there would even be an argument or debate about the pieing – just things for people to pick on.

  320. Kenny May 17th, 2009 at 12:43 am

    Pete posted the stats. In the last month, spanning 5-6 starts, AJ has a 7.77 ERA.

    Numbers don’t lie. You can sugarcoat it all you want, but the numbers are there. 7 and 3 is different than 7.2 and 5. Nobody said he is going to be awful all year, but he hasn’t done well at all after the first 2 games. He needs to step it up. Tomorrow would be a good start to try and extend a winning streak.

  321. Ramondo May 17th, 2009 at 12:43 am

    People all over this world make mistakes and eventually you have to accept their apology and MOVE ON. I refuse to sit here as a Yankee fan and not root for A-Rod because he admitted to what he did. In life there are moments that happen that you MUST move on in order to grow from. I believe that’s what A-Rod will attempt to do. As a fan, I will because truthfully it gets old talking about what someone did wrong yesterday. What if this makes him a better person and I decide to dwell on his mistakes so I miss out on all the good he will bring me the fan? It becomes my loss because I didn’t grow from the situation. I won’t do that and you as a writer should get over this as well because from what I have read your fans are getting tired of how you paint him in a negative light all the time. Just my opinion.

  322. Pepitone May 17th, 2009 at 12:43 am

    Pete – “Once again, thanks for those who participated. I have always thought this blog has intelligent readers and you proved it again.”
    ……………………….
    No, it is we who should be thanking you Pete. You work hard to put this blog together so we Yankee fans can have a place to cheer, whine, cry, and argue, and I for one, appreciate it. Keep it up!

    Oh, and I am really happy to have another Patriot fan around here, even if we are hated.

  323. Betsy May 17th, 2009 at 12:44 am

    West Side, I can’t and won’t do that. I enjoy having emotional connections to the players – sure it makes it harder sometimes (when they retire, play poorly, etc…..), but I can’t be coldly businesslike when it comes to my sports teams.

  324. Subway Squawkers May 17th, 2009 at 12:44 am

    Lifer 65:

    “Who cars if some outcasts like Grimsely, Canseco, Stanton etc. were in the report?

    As long as O’Neil, Tino, Jeter, Bernie, etc. were clean, the championship is legit.”

    I dunno. I never thought of Clemens, Pettitte, David Justice, and Knoblauch as being “outcasts.”

  325. Grey 44 May 17th, 2009 at 12:46 am

    Giambi is a standup guy and apologized for his use

    You can see why he is treated differently than Alex.

    Kim Jones talked about after Ortiz, Giambi is the most popular player in baseball.

    He is just much more likeable than Alex and thus it is easier to look past his steroid use, easier than it is with Alex.

  326. Tarheelyank May 17th, 2009 at 12:46 am

    “lol. Pete posts a legit thought provoking question and the usual suspects try and paint this as Pete being “Anti-ARod”.

    lol. GB and Giuseppe post “a legit thought provoking” response and the usual suspects try and paint them as lost anti-PA souls.

  327. Betsy May 17th, 2009 at 12:46 am

    Whatever, Kenny – I’m not getting into a debate about AJ. If folks think he’s gone overboard with the pie routine, that’s their issue and they have a right to their opinion. I, for one, love it and I hope he keeps doing it. It has nothing whatsoever to do with his performances – I think it’s funny, pure and simple.

  328. Betsy May 17th, 2009 at 12:48 am

    Oops, Kenny – I didn’t mean to sound snippy. I just meant that we don’t need to debate AJ’s numbers or performance at this point…….

  329. Clare May 17th, 2009 at 12:48 am

    I don’t want to see “ethics” and “ARod” in the same sentence from you again Peter until you acknowledge your bias against the man.

    As many others have posted above – where was all this concern about ethics in your writing about Giambi and Pettitte? Until you answer that question you have absolutely zero credibility on this subject.

  330. Pat M May 17th, 2009 at 12:49 am

    I’m quite certain the next time Alex rises to the occasion, Pete will bring up this again maybe via a different way, but with the hopes of offsetting the achievement once again….

  331. Harold May 17th, 2009 at 12:49 am

    Ramon Ramirez for Coco freakin Crisp

    What a shrewd move by Theo

    Ramirez, in 21 innings has an ERA of 0.44.

  332. m May 17th, 2009 at 12:51 am

    Pepitone,

    I do like this squad, even though they’re not playing their best ball.

    I don’t like that Fish is the weak link, and I really don’t like that this the squad goes as Bynum goes. Gasol needs to push that baby aside and take over.

    I feel better facing the Nuggets than I do the Rockets. Just need to win on Sunday.

  333. Peter Abraham May 17th, 2009 at 12:52 am

    Oh, Clare. Dry those crocodile tears.

    Alex Rodriguez is about 100x more important in baseball history than Giambi and Pettitte together. He’s the highest paid player ever and has a chance to break the most famous record.

    if you can’t understand that, I’m not sure what to tell you.

  334. REZ May 17th, 2009 at 12:52 am

    Putting proven cheaters in the HOF kind of defeats the purpose, no?

  335. Bryan V May 17th, 2009 at 12:53 am

    We all know that PED use stinks. We’ve heard the arguments about it being cheating, and the arguments saying everybody did/does it so it’s really not cheating after all. So another blog post about it does not help at all. It only brought down what should have been a great moment.

    The fact this comes from Pete doesn’t help matters either. Because he’s been as two-faced about this subject as I’ve ever heard. He blasts ARod about PED use, but won’t give an answer as to why he supports Giambi after he too was found to have used PEDs. He claimed in an emailed response to me that the two things aren’t related. And he wouldn’t give his opinion on Giambi’s use, and instead hid behind the fact he didn’t cover the Yankees then. As if he doesn’t have an opinion about that anyway.

    It’s a joke that Pete continues to talk about this subject.

  336. Drew May 17th, 2009 at 12:55 am

    I am not much of a fan of A-Rod and his cheating, but I am a fan of the Yankees so I had no pause watching him go deep to end the game. Do I like him, not really but I will root for him because he is a Yankee.

  337. Ball 4 May 17th, 2009 at 12:55 am

    Giambi, Manny, Pettitte etc. were never considered the best player in baseball who owns the largest contract in sports and is chasing the most hollowed record in sports and is on pace to shatter basically every record. Oh and his contract is directly tied into that and he was supposed to be the “clean” HR king who would replace the disgrace of Bonds. He also told Katie Couric he never did it.

    Some of these responses are hilarious. “Why doesn’t Pete attack Giambi?!!!?”

    Denial is more than just a river.

  338. GreenBeret7 May 17th, 2009 at 12:57 am

    Grey 44
    May 17th, 2009 at 12:46 am
    Giambi is a standup guy and apologized for his use

    You can see why he is treated differently than Alex.

    Kim Jones talked about after Ortiz, Giambi is the most popular player in baseball.

    He is just much more likeable than Alex and thus it is easier to look past his steroid use, easier than it is with Alex.

    ————————————————————

    That’s running a close race with the most unintelligent excuse that I’ve read on any message board.

  339. Harley May 17th, 2009 at 12:57 am

    REZ,

    Tell it to Gaylord Perry.

  340. Joe May 17th, 2009 at 12:57 am

    I really want to like A-Rod…regardless of his past.

    I will believe what he says until it is proven wrong. I was jumping up and down today when they won. It made me feel good for him. The yanks have a lot of hope and money tied up in him. Regardless of what he has done, it is what he can do that makes the difference. Tex is on a roll. Him being there helps…you can’t deny that.

    The saving grace for this whole thing in my mind is that while A-Rod had individual accolades while using PEDs, the Yankees did not. So in the A-Rod years, no championship is tainted (because there are none, and I am not saying there are no Yankees championship that can be seen as untainted). Can Boston say the same thing?

    If A-Rod comes thru more than he fails, I will love him regardless. The more clutch, the more love. It’s the NY way.

  341. Clare May 17th, 2009 at 12:59 am

    Peter,

    So you’re saying there are no ethical issues involved in Pettitte and Giambi’s cheating because they’re not as important as ARod?

  342. A+ Track May 17th, 2009 at 1:00 am

    Greenies are NOT steroids.

    Hank, Ruth, Aaron, Mays, Nantle etc. did it on hot dogs and beer, unlike A-Rod.

  343. Pepitone May 17th, 2009 at 1:00 am

    m – “I feel better facing the Nuggets than I do the Rockets. Just need to win on Sunday.”
    ……………………………..
    I think you’re right about Fish, he is really starting to look his age. I like Pau Gasol, for his size, he’s one of the quickest big men I have ever seen. But defensively he is just too too soft. I hope he hits the weights this summer. Bynum needs to reappear!

    Well, I hope you’re right, we shall have to see. I’m not as confident I’m afraid.

  344. Sean D. May 17th, 2009 at 1:01 am

    Pete
    Don’t waste your time replying to these idiots… if the disagree with you so much, why are they spending time reading your blog?
    Good work, man… keep it up.

    Sean D.

  345. GreenBeret7 May 17th, 2009 at 1:01 am

    Ball 4
    May 17th, 2009 at 12:55 am
    Giambi, Manny, Pettitte etc. were never considered the best player in baseball who owns the largest contract in sports and is chasing the most hollowed record in sports and is on pace to shatter basically every record. Oh and his contract is directly tied into that and he was supposed to be the “clean” HR king who would replace the disgrace of Bonds. He also told Katie Couric he never did it.

    Some of these responses are hilarious. “Why doesn’t Pete attack Giambi?!!!?”

    Denial is more than just a river.

    ————————————————————

    What are you? Pete’s tape recorder or his parrot?

  346. Richie May 17th, 2009 at 1:04 am

    James

    I think what the biggest thing I saw after the walk-off today compared to yesterday, was that more guys were around Melky after his walk-off hit today than there were around A-Rod today. I think that speaks volumes if that was noticed.
    __

    Think again. This is pure fantasy. A-Rod was mobbed by every teammate, including Jeter.

    So just stop this revisionism.

  347. GreenBeret7 May 17th, 2009 at 1:04 am

    A+ Track
    May 17th, 2009 at 1:00 am
    Greenies are NOT steroids.

    Hank, Ruth, Aaron, Mays, Nantle etc. did it on hot dogs and beer, unlike A-Rod

    ————————————————————

    If speed gets you on the field to play, they’re performance enhancers. No matter how much you deny it, that’s a fact.

  348. Clare May 17th, 2009 at 1:04 am

    And, just in case you’re seriously interested in your readers’ opinions (and not just trying to generage blog hits), the way to answer the problem of the media ignoring steroids back in the day is not to jump on the moralizing bandwagon now.

    The answer is to acknowledge that everyone involved in the game in the steroid era prior to testing was complicit in some way, including owners, management, players (only ONE player argued in favor of testing) and the media. Instead of scapegoating the few who have been named, a better response would be to explore the era as a whole – for example following up on the story about the Red Sox doctor instructing players on how to use correctly, following up on the Mitchell report’s mention of team officials and trainers who were aware of steroid use at the time.

  349. wood is good May 17th, 2009 at 1:05 am

    It’s a game, people.

    A GAME.

    Yeeesh. Some of you are so damn serious. Ridiculous.

    Pete, you posed a great question.

  350. Rick May 17th, 2009 at 1:05 am

    There is a reason why Selig said that A-Rod “shamed the game”.

    The biggest star in the sport is not supposed to this.

  351. 21 Paulie May 17th, 2009 at 1:07 am

    Pete,

    Thanks for this post. Great question and certainly garned some interesting responses.

    Much rather read about this than some unintelligent drivel about how Ortiz was on steroids.

  352. Peter Abraham May 17th, 2009 at 1:08 am

    I’m unclear on how I was supposed to “attack” Giambi while I was on the Mets beat writer for my paper at the time.

    Like when my boss called and told me to write a story on Jose Reyes, I was supposed to say, “No, I want to write a story about Giambi using steroids.”

    Um, OK.

    Obviously Giambi cheated. I’m not clear how I “supported” him by relaying funny things he said. What was I supposed to do, not report them.

    I can only report what the players say and do. I’d love for Alex to be a funny, engaging guy. That would be great for the blog and my newspaper work.

  353. Bryan V May 17th, 2009 at 1:09 am

    Pete does a great job gathering information about the Yankees. So I will continue to come to this blog for that reason. And actually, I do agree with a lot of his opinions. Just not this one.

    Pete knows that he’s going to have those that agree with him, and those that don’t. That just goes with the territory. I’m sure he won’t lose any sleep over it.

    However, I believe that he should man up and answer his readers’ questions. We’re the reason he has a job such as this.

  354. Zed May 17th, 2009 at 1:10 am

    Pete regardless of what the haters/A-Rod apologists say, this was a very good thought provoking post. A shame that some people couldn’t answer the question in a mature manner.

  355. tb646 May 17th, 2009 at 1:12 am

    pete, you deleted the post that accused you of posting under aliases. Why?

  356. Bryan V May 17th, 2009 at 1:12 am

    Pete, you’re still dodging the issue in regards to Giambi.

    He used PEDs. You support him now. What team you covered, and your job title as a whole, has nothing to do with your opinion.

    We’re not asking you to tell us why you didn’t bash Giambi. We’re asking how you can support “The Big G” now after he was caught using, but continue to trash ARod.

    Is that so difficult?

  357. Phil May 17th, 2009 at 1:12 am

    pat,

    there are already roiders in the Hall of Fame. At least one of them has recently criticized ARod.

  358. Giuseppe Franco May 17th, 2009 at 1:13 am

    # Peter Abraham May 17th, 2009 at 12:52 am

    Oh, Clare. Dry those crocodile tears.

    Alex Rodriguez is about 100x more important in baseball history than Giambi and Pettitte together. He’s the highest paid player ever and has a chance to break the most famous record.

    if you can’t understand that, I’m not sure what to tell you.

    —————-

    The Patriots were going after a pretty significant feat as well – a perfect season.

    Gotta wonder if the Pats were cheating during that season as well. They had every reason to do it because they were doing something that had never been done before.

    But that didn’t matter because “everybody does it” as you said when they got caught last year.

    I love what you bring to the table on everything else, Pete. But this issue makes you a hypocrite because you don’t apply the same ethical compass to A-Rod as you have to Pettitte, Giambi, and those Mighty Pats.

  359. DT May 17th, 2009 at 1:13 am

    “I’d love for Alex to be a funny, engaging guy. That would be great for the blog and my newspaper work.”

    I’d say Alex is doing quite well for the blog hits right now. A funny and engaging Alex might result in server overload. ;-)

  360. dave May 17th, 2009 at 1:15 am

    Great writing pete. I could swear your tune has changed for the better SO MUCH within the last month or so since arod has been back. You were once just another media reporter who was salivating at the thought of the next arod debacle and couldnt seem to wait until he said the next dumb comment and since then, you have changed dramatically and in my opinion, MUCH FOR THE BETTER.

    Where as before, you sounded like every other news guy who would rather a great story than be human for a moment and actually consider the reality you are now thought provoking and intelligent in your arod thoughts and comments showing some real insight into how you feel on the subject personally (and maybe professionally too but it isn’t overwhelmingly so.)

    Anyway, I for one, was happy it was arod more than the fact that it was a walk-off. I wouldnt want any one else on the team in that spot right there in the 11th and was shouting even louder because of who was at the plate. I know I am probably in the minority but that is how i feel.

    I think arod has shown that he most certainly learned this off-season above all else that he needs to grow up as he even said and make sure to put his professional career and winning far ahead of his stupid side antics. He put it perfectly today by saying he was happy to be in the spotlight for something regarding baseball rather than anything else. And I think he genuinely is trying to make sure that is how it is from now on. Everybody develops and matures differently and despite the fact that he is over 30, i think he really hit a life lesson that finally helped him grow up and hopefully, become a better person for it.

  361. Dan May 17th, 2009 at 1:17 am

    Taping practices is hardly the same as taking steroids in an individual sport that is predicated on numbers and records and HRs.

    How does taping walk-throughs help win a game?

  362. FV2 May 17th, 2009 at 1:17 am

    I hope A-Rod hits 500 more home runs. I wouldn’t think twice about rooting for him to hit every single one. That kind of talk is good for the off-season but for 162 games you want maximum performance out of every single player regardless of anything off the field that has happened.

    Bottom line is you want your team to win. Does anyone honestly think that there aren’t at least 5-10 players on every single team who have done steroids??

  363. Giuseppe Franco May 17th, 2009 at 1:17 am

    The Patriots were going after a pretty significant feat as well – a perfect season.

    Gotta wonder if the Pats were cheating during the 2007 season. They had every reason to do it because they were doing something that had never been done before.

    Are we to believe that they got caught the very first time they broke the rules?

    I tend to doubt it.

    But that didn’t matter because “everybody does it” as PA said when they got caught last year.

    I everything else PA brings to the table because he reports a lot of great info.

    But this issue makes him a hypocrite because he doesn’t apply the same ethical compass to A-Rod as he has to Pettitte, Giambi, and those Mighty Pats.

  364. Peter Abraham May 17th, 2009 at 1:19 am

    Giuseppe Franco:

    Next time, try and read the post before you criticize it. I used my qualms about the Patriots to lead into the point about A-Rod.

    I applied exactly the same ethical compass. Exactly.

    There is just no winning with some people. You ripped me for not doing exactly what I did do.

  365. FV2 May 17th, 2009 at 1:20 am

    We now know that Manny took PEDs. If you had to put every dollar you had on a bet of whether or not Big Papi and Pujols took steroids which way would you bet?

    Gun to my head I think both of them along with many other superstars did/are doing PEDs.

  366. Avi May 17th, 2009 at 1:21 am

    You know, it stinks that he did what he did. As for now, I don’t believe he is taking any illegal substances right now. So as long as he is clean right now, why should anyone have second thoughts about cheering for an awesome walk-off blast?

    I think it’s important for everyone to really get behind A-Rod now, as long as his mistakes were in the past. Right now, he is on our team helping us win, and we should support him. Now is a great time for the Yankees to make a run with Teixeira catching fire, A-Rod back, the pitchers starting to put up quality starts, and some more players coming back soon. If all goes right, this could be an exciting season.

  367. Giuseppe Franco May 17th, 2009 at 1:23 am

    Pete:

    I read that post just fine. Maybe you need to re-read it again since you don’t remember what you wrote.

    You ripped Harrison because of PEDs. You questioned whether others on the team were using PEDs.

    Not a word about how the Pats were caught cheating last season – which was serious enough that they were fined big-time by the NFL and lost their 1st Round pick.

    So, no, you weren’t using the same compass.

  368. Bryan V May 17th, 2009 at 1:23 am

    Pete, would you have trashed Giambi for having used PEDs if you were covering the Yankees?

  369. stuart May 17th, 2009 at 1:23 am

    good topic peter.. the problem is we will never know who cheated there were so many. the league (owners and management) encouraged it or condoned it at a minimum..

    there were at least 103 other names on the list that did not come out yet.

    i really cannot understand the people that dislike arod cause he is a narcissist goof and unlikeable. like you can tell from an interview that giambi and others are nicer people then arod. we do not know any of these guys so do not act like you know them from an interview or some other meaningless interaction..

    isn’t it worse they guys like big papai, giambi, brady anderson, gagne, and others when off the ped’s they can no longer contribute remotely like they use to???

  370. dave May 17th, 2009 at 1:25 am

    As for rooting for someone that is caught using, i think their is a great degree of bias in who was actually found using. And I say found and not caught because none of clemens or arod or pettitte or multiple other players were really caught. They were just later found to have done it in the past. And that is horribly biased that the wide majority of those out were or are on the yanks especially since someone who worked around the yanks was one of the main sources for some of this. And I guess stars are targeted more than not. But what then about the people that everyone has a great inkling has used but has not yet been caught or never will be. Dave Ortiz has had a precipitous and horrid decline for mvp to one of the worst in baseball right now.

    Should sox fans root for him less because they have suspicion to believe? And the same could be said about quite a few others. Im just saying its a slippery slope to say I dont root for those who used or start shouting your mouth off about it whether its a player or a fan because you never know who is going to be the next one ousted. And then, you may all of a sudden be forced to change your tune and sound like a hippocrit in the process.

    I can say one thing for sure – right now all of us can feel very safe rooting for alex for one reason and one alone. We all know there is no way in hell alex is on anything at this point and I will say that as surely as I will say jeter is the next least likely in baseball to be using. So alex’s homerun today = clean and free of steroids. Isnt that a reason to root harder for the guy. He made a mistake, didnt own up to it as no one ever does but when he was caught was the first to admit it, came back from a horrendous injury and surgery and is not hitting game winnning homeruns in the eleventh. Its almost story book and as a yankee fan its too good not to root for. So why not scream our hearts out for arod knowing now as sure as we will ever know about anyone that he is now clean and trying to make a comeback and a new name for himself. If there is anything to root for in life, its a comeback from a player on your favorite team, no?

  371. Tarheelyank May 17th, 2009 at 1:27 am

    “I can only report what the players say and do.”

    Pete you said more then once that this blog is about your opinion. You have made your opinion quite plain as to Arod. Even before the steroid story.

    If loyal contributers call you on it, so be it. It’s your opinion. Don’t attack people who disagree with your blatant anti-Arod bias. Or even worse, act like your not imposing bias.

    Your newspaper writing from everything I have read is without any bias and always real good.

  372. Jim May 17th, 2009 at 1:28 am

    Peter,

    The last thing on my mind was steroids. Personally, I’m tired of hearing about steroids and baseball. I just want baseball. Steroids had nothing to do with A-Rod’s blast. Let it go, it’s over. Let’s just focus on baseball and how the Yanks may have finally turned the corner.

  373. Avi May 17th, 2009 at 1:29 am

    Also, stop ripping on Pete everyone, he’s awesome. I check this blog 10 times a day, it’s the best source of information on the Yankees. Be thankful for it.

  374. Bryan V May 17th, 2009 at 1:29 am

    “The last thing on my mind was steroids. Personally, I’m tired of hearing about steroids and baseball. I just want baseball. Steroids had nothing to do with A-Rod’s blast. Let it go, it’s over. Let’s just focus on baseball and how the Yanks may have finally turned the corner.”

    That’s pretty much exactly how I felt the first time I ran across this blog post.

  375. Peter Abraham May 17th, 2009 at 1:30 am

    Bryan:

    I have referred to Jason as a “big cheating goon” on the blog. So had there been such a thing as a beat writer blog back then, I suppose I would have.

  376. Pepitone May 17th, 2009 at 1:31 am

    Giuseppe – “Not a word about how the Pats were caught cheating last season – which was serious enough that they were fined big-time by the NFL and lost their 1st Round pick.”

    Since I too am a Patriots fan, I will give you my take on it:

    1) It didn’t happen last year, it happened two years ago.

    2) I said, to my friends, that I thought Bill Belichek should be fired after that. I don’t know how Pete feels about that, but I will let him answer for himself.

    3) If Belichek were the Giants coach, and had won three Super Bowls for the Giants, and been caught cheating, would you want him fired?

    Kraft didn’t want to fire him because the guy is a great coach, but for me there are more important things.

    So that’s how I look at the Patriot deal.

  377. Bryan V May 17th, 2009 at 1:34 am

    “I have referred to Jason as a “big cheating goon” on the blog. So had there been such a thing as a beat writer blog back then, I suppose I would have.”

    Thank you. I didn’t know you said anything like that. I’ve spoke with your about this through email, and I felt you dodged the question. Perhaps it was merely a misunderstanding.

    So is it safe to say that ARod has a chance to redeem himself in your eyes? Not so much as a player, but as a person? Like Giambi apparently did.

  378. dave May 17th, 2009 at 1:34 am

    yOU guys are being way too hard on pete for the post. I mean, I can see getting upset with him for some of the stuff written over the summer after the whole selena mess but the post above is insightful and intelligent writing. Of course, he is writing it as an opinion because it is his own internal struggle of whether he feels it important or not that who should be a hero on a person’s favorite team be rooted for after having caught cheating.

    That is a feeling and opinion subject and one that could never be written objectively with any sort of meaning or importance attached. wHAT is he going to define cheating from websters dictionary and write an essay? You guys are nuts to say its not objective. Who cares? It hardly ever is around here. That post was not blasting arod and of course, this has something to do with steroids. He is trying to re-make a name for himself after the steroid saga is done and over. That def has something to do with it. Give me a break or better yet, give pete a break.

  379. Bryan V May 17th, 2009 at 1:39 am

    This post, in and of itself, was not bad. In fact it did indeed pose a good question. If it weren’t for the many other times when Pete has criticized ARod though, then there wouldn’t be nearly as many comments.

    This “thing” has been built up over time, and it’s gotten to a point where anything related to this subject causes the riot you see before you.

  380. Clare May 17th, 2009 at 1:39 am

    Pete,

    I don’t doubt your word that you ONCE called Giambi a big cheating goon (although I don’t recall it). What I do recall is many, many posts, including multiple posts on the same day, about what at great guy Giambi was. I don’t recall any posts questioning whether he, or Pettitte, or any other player was taking HGH or any other undetectable PED, and I don’t recall any handwringing posts about the ethics of cheering for him after any big home run.

    I am truly baffled about whether you truly can’t see how your bias against ARod affects your blog posts (and I’m not talking about your newspaper stories) or whether you’re just playing us all for blog hits.

  381. EnterSandman May 17th, 2009 at 1:40 am

    I understand your point Pete, and find this a far more meaningful PED conversation than the vast majority on the topic. Personally, the thought of Alex’s controversies (of any kind) never crossed my mind. The only thought I had in the back of my mind was, I hope this gives him a couple of pressure-free days to get rolling. So, obviously, I wholeheartedly agree with your choice to avoid the “S” word in your article. Every single person who will read your article is aware of that situation, so why not focus on today’s story–the wonderful game & dramatic finish. But then again, I’m definitely a homer…so maybe you should do the opposite??

  382. Giuseppe Franco May 17th, 2009 at 1:41 am

    Pepitone,

    Frankly, neither you or I know whether Belichek cheated during the 2007 season but there’s obviously reason to believe he may have.

    So you would be right that he only got caught last season – but that doesn’t mean he had never cheated in the past.

    It’s a reasonable question to ask. And neither of us can answer that for certain because we don’t know.

    All that said, I really don’t care whether the Pats cheated or not. My point is to simply point out the double-standard and hypocrisy on the part of Pete in regards to A-Rod.

    He singled out Harrison for PEDs but he’s only an individual who was trying to get an edge.

    Belichek was the freaking coach who almost won the Super Bowl with a perfect season just months before he got caught cheating himself.

    That’s a much bigger issue than one individual taking PEDs who is on the downside of his career anyways.

  383. pat May 17th, 2009 at 1:43 am

    “Alex Rodriguez is about 100x more important in baseball history than Giambi and Pettitte together. He’s the highest paid player ever and has a chance to break the most famous record.”

    Ethics don’t vary on reason or condition.

    Ethically speaking, theft of a Rolex watch because it’s hot is no different than the theft of a loaf of bread to feed a hungry family. If you believe theft is ethically wrong, the condition or reason don’t change. Might make it more palatable but not more ethical.

    In the same way, if you ethically believe that PEDs are wrong, a players status, accomplishments or salary has no place in an ethical debate.

  384. Tarheelyank May 17th, 2009 at 1:44 am

    “Give me a break or better yet, give pete a break.”

    dave
    Pete has hit us over the head with Arod countless times. Arod hits a walkoff and now Pete is “insightful and intelligent writing” about Arod and steroids.

    Give me a break is right.

  385. dave May 17th, 2009 at 1:44 am

    I had one negative thought concerning the game today that will most certainly crop up again. What is with Joe’s trust in Jose veras. The guy has proved to us time and time again so far this season that this is not the veras of last year and he cannot be trust in close games. Then, Joe calls on him today? What is with that?

    I mean i know the pen is not great right now but veras should not be in and nor should edwar in any sort of meaningful situation. Some may say that others will be over-used if he follows those guidelines. And i would say, coke and aceves were both starters at points in their careers and can pitch quite a bit. If that is not satisfying, then how about we call back up our two best relievers in the whole system outside of bruney (robertson and melancon) and give them an actual, decent shot this time and send back the scrubs who are shells of what they were last season for some alterations in the minors.

    I think its crazy that robertson and melancon are not in our pen right now. Why dont we just send wang to triple A for the rest of the year too while we’re at it if people who struggle once or twice should be demoted immediately. And the fact that edwar and veras are both taking up roster spots when we can promote a guy like duncan who already has 10 jacks and is batting 324 is laughable. Cash is really proving how bad he can be managing the roster this year.

  386. Bryan V May 17th, 2009 at 1:44 am

    Pete used the situation with the Pats/Harrison as a tie-in with ARod. He took a personal story from the past, and used it to show a personal observation on the present. That’s it.

    I don’t think he meant to cause an argument about how the Patriots may or may not have cheated. After all, this is a Yankee blog. Not a Patriots blog.

  387. m May 17th, 2009 at 1:44 am

    There’s no mystery here. Our personal biases bleed through the writing of each and every one of us who “write” here.

    I can understand why people would get upset at Pete for what he writes, but he’s not going to change.

    If 3 years of people begging him to leave Alex alone hasn’t worked, then that is definitely a case of it is what it is.

  388. Clare May 17th, 2009 at 1:46 am

    Thanks pat, that was my point in my next comment.

  389. chris May 17th, 2009 at 1:47 am

    No – I too am glad it was Alex who hit the HR, I feel like it will help him get things going. I hope he hits 50 more. I think if Arod is great then Tex will have a better chance to be great and the Yankees will have a good chance of winning another title. Go Arod – Go Yanks.

  390. Bryan V May 17th, 2009 at 1:48 am

    Wang is past the point in his career where time in the Minors will help (except for getting over an injury or short-term problems with his mechanics). Whereas guys like Melancon and Robertson can still learn and make long-term adjustments in the Minors in order to prepare themselves for a career on the Majors.

  391. Giuseppe Franco May 17th, 2009 at 1:50 am

    If 3 years of people begging him to leave Alex alone hasn’t worked, then that is definitely a case of it is what it is.

    ———————

    That’s true.

    And people are going to continue to call him on his A-Rod bias and shouldn’t get so defensive and even nasty when we do so.

  392. dave May 17th, 2009 at 1:52 am

    bY THE WAY while we suck with edwar and veras or crap and crappier i should say this is melancon’s line so far in triple A:

    13 innings 0.66 era 0.8 whip 20 strikeouts 8 hits 3 walks 1 ER

    and this is Robertson’s

    11.2 innings 1.54 era 1.03 whip 20 strikeouts 8 hits 4 walks 2 ER

    I mean really. Is this a waste of talent or what? Edwar has 14 walks in 16 innings and 17 hits – that is a whip over 2 – god awful. Veras has 11 walks and 13 hits in 16 innings – almost as bad. The whole walk per inning thing doesnt really fly well for the middle reliever who is supposed to come in and you know, get guys out and not put guys on every outing. Is it my imagination or do the yankees think its 2008 by not swapping these 2 for the 2 above who very well could be two of the best relievers on the franchise right now.

  393. Bryan V May 17th, 2009 at 1:54 am

    I think the Yankees are trying to avoid pushing those guys into MLB before they are totally ready.

    Remember…Ian Kennedy has had great numbers in AAA too.

  394. dave May 17th, 2009 at 1:56 am

    “dave
    Pete has hit us over the head with Arod countless times.”

    Tarheel,

    Yea but this was not some jab at arod without a purpose or just saying things to say them. This had a much more personal, reflective tone to it. Some insight on how pete feels about the subject personally and not as much professionally. It had a different tone from the many comments over the summer some of which I also found way to harsh but I did not this time around and it has nothing to do with the yanks winning or arod winning for us. I think people are just not taking the post as it is meant to be taken. They are think it is another jab at arod on his day of glory when it doesnt appear to be that at all. I dont know – thas how i took it anyways.

  395. Hioncho May 17th, 2009 at 1:56 am

    Nope, loved to watch that ball sail into the stands and never stopped to think about anything other than the sweet victory.

    Move on, PA, time to stop wringing your hands and start enjoying the great game of baseball.

  396. Pepitone May 17th, 2009 at 1:57 am

    It’s only 10:56 pm here in L.A. – don’t you guys on the East Coast go to sleep?

    I guess Frank was right about the “city that never sleeps.”

  397. Bryan V May 17th, 2009 at 2:00 am

    I’m in Ohio and it’s 1:59am. So it’s not just NYC (although I grew up in upstate NY, so maybe some of that “city that never sleeps” stuff crept up there and infected me).

  398. Frida K. May 17th, 2009 at 2:01 am

    Yeah, I know Pete. Arod is dirty as hell but I will hold my nose and cheer for him as long as hits bombs that win games.

  399. dave May 17th, 2009 at 2:02 am

    Bryan,

    Look at melancon’s career. Look at his scouting reports. Look at him pitch. Some scouts say he could be the next closer for us yet, our pen is horrendous, we cannot seem to get an out from anyone outside of a select few and we are constantly overusing guys at this point. I know bruney is close but frankly, neither robertson or melancon are learning a thing at the triple A level right now. Pitchers dont learn squat when they are dominating unless they are learning a new pitch and trying to be a starter. These guys are relievers. They dont need to refine third and fourth pitches.

    They need to learn how to deal with tough situations – like runners in scoring position in the ninth and how to get out of a jam against a great hitter without your best tough. Most importantly, they need to learn how to use their talent to get out major league hitters. This is not hughes and kennedy we are talking about here. These are relievers. They need 2 pitches. Mo has made a hall of fame career from a single pitch really. We desparately need help as well. This is no time to take it slow. These guys arent even all THAT young anymore. Time to take off the training wheels. Last go around, girardi didnt give either one of them a fair shot at all. I dont see the point of this anymore – 2 amazing relievers dominating in triple A and a talentless bullpen at the major league level. Maybe veras and edwar can learn a thing or two from the triple A coaches in the process.

  400. Avi May 17th, 2009 at 2:03 am

    I’m in Boston. Sleeping is overrated.

    dave,

    I love the thought of bringing up young guys who are kick-ass in the minors, and I really do like Robertson and Melancon. But Melancon did get called up and didn’t prove much int he 3.1 innings he pitched. Now that’s not to say we should give up on the kid, because clearly he has good stuff. But it’s not like they haven’t already given him a chance. And it’s also possible that 3.1 innings isn’t enough for him to settle in and show what he has. That may be the case. I think once Bruney comes back, maybe the Yankees will feel more comfortable bringing up Melancon and Robertson because at least they have two guys (Bruney and Coke, in my opinion) who are reliable.

  401. 224 May 17th, 2009 at 2:05 am

    I don’t understand you, Pete. Can’t you be happy for Alex? Is it always negative for you?

    I just don’t get it. A DUI is far worse than taking steroids and anything Alex has done in his life, yet Joba gets a free pass. Steroids endangers your body, but driving drunk endangers others.

    Your bias is so obvious here, Pete. I wish you would back off of Alex for a second and use some objective journalism. I’m trying to be constructive here.

  402. Bryan V May 17th, 2009 at 2:06 am

    dave,

    It doesn’t matter what position it is. If you’re not ready…you’re not ready.

    Amazing players in AAA do not always translate into amazing players in MLB.

    BTW…both Robertson and Melancon are 24. They aren’t babies or anything, but they’re hardly in the prime of their baseball careers either.

  403. Bryan V May 17th, 2009 at 2:12 am

    I’d like Pete to put this whole thing to rest. But with the number of hits and chat it causes, it might be silly to do that. After all, just like baseball, this site is a business and needs hits to generate revenue.

  404. Pepitone May 17th, 2009 at 2:14 am

    Avi – “I’m in Boston. Sleeping is overrated.”

    LOL! Well, it’s not overrated for me, I gotta get up for church tomorrow.

    See you guys tomorrow!

    Go Yanks!

  405. Ed K May 17th, 2009 at 2:16 am

    Wait a second… You are a Pats fan and you still root for them after their current Head Coach was caught cheating and they had to forfeit a 1st round draft pick last year?

    Seems to me that you already know the answer to your question… Which is that at the end of the day, all we root for is ‘the laundry’.

  406. The Greek May 17th, 2009 at 2:17 am

    Pete this is your dumbest post my man, simply stupid. As a matter of fact he is the number one guy that I wanted to have this moment, because as a die hard fan he needs our support. Just stick with hitting on Kim Jones Peter, and good freakin luck with that friendo.

  407. dave May 17th, 2009 at 2:21 am

    Bryan,

    24 means they are ready to get to the majors already. 24 is ripe, its prime time to start a career. Neither of them have proved that they dont deserve a shot and more of a shot than a handful of innings.

    Avi,

    Whats really annoying to me is that edwar and veras are horrendous this season. They are wasting meaningful spots on the roster. What is the point of keeping these guys in the majors? They walk a batter per inning. They both have a whip of close to 2 or over. They cannot and should not be trusted in any meaningful capacity. I mean even if bruney isnt around yet, who else can be trusted now outside of coke and aceves? I thinks its even more important to call somebody up before bruney comes back so we dont end up blowing cokes arm from using him every single night.

    And to comment on the other point you had, yea melancon didnt do well in 1 appearance in his first 3 innings at the major league level. but that was no reaosn to send him down. If it is, how many times does veras need to struggle to get back to triple A? He hasnt been good all year and still gets put into tie games and late innings. Its really baffling.

    As for melancon’s first four appearances, the kid was thrown right into the fire facing three of the toughest lineups in baseball – the sox, tigers, angels and sox again. That is a VERY TALL order for a pitchers first few innings in the majors. Here is some of the batters he faces so you can get a feel of it – bay, ortiz, pedroia, ellsbury, abreu, torri hunter, lowell, youkilllis and gary matthews jr. among others. Those are a few mvps, numerous all stars and all around quality hitters – just the names that goes with some of these players is intimidating for your first few innings. Through that kind of lineup, he walked 5, let up 2 hits and struck out 2 in four appearances. I dont know – i think we need a little better sample size before determing that triple A was the best course of action especially considering the current state of our pen.

  408. Larry The Cable Guy May 17th, 2009 at 2:25 am

    Pete,
    Do you ever cheer for Andy Petitte? Do you think the Yankees’ championship teams, 1996-2000, are tainted because there were players using PEDs on those teams?

    It’s fine if you don’t like A-Rod. I agree that he’s not an easy guy to like but he plays for my favorite team therefore I cheer for him when he does something great like he did today…

  409. Rafael May 17th, 2009 at 2:26 am

    Nope. i love the HR

  410. dave May 17th, 2009 at 2:27 am

    mEANWHILE, Robertson in his first 4 and 2/3 was better than most anyone else in the pen at that time. He lets up 4 hits and 4 walks and struck out 7 posting a 3.86 era. And his two rough starts were ALSO against the angels and redsox. What a coincidence that both melancon and robertson had tough times against those 2 teams with 2 of the better lineups in the majors.

  411. dave May 17th, 2009 at 2:30 am

    I dont know – they should just keep two of our best arms in triple A all year maybe and keep bringing out veras and edwar in tight games. That should really do wonders for us. Ya know how we are on this winning streak right now? By avoiding those 2 more than anything else and cleaning up after their messes if necessary. So maybe melancon and robertson had some difficult times in their 4 innings of work each but veras and edwar have had tough times all season without proving otherwise at any point. I would rather go with the talented guys who struggled over the talentless.

  412. Mike from Sarasota May 17th, 2009 at 2:33 am

    I was thrilled the Yanks won but I’d rather it was Jeter, Damon, Swisher, Cano etc.. with the big hit. I can’t actively root for an admitted cheater. I’ll always root for the pinstipes but I was happy to see Giambi go and will be happy when Rodriguez is gone. That’s just me and I don’t fault anyone for cheering him. To each his own.

    There was an interesting article a few weeks ago http://www.huffingtonpost.com/.....94619.html

  413. dave May 17th, 2009 at 2:37 am

    Over our last few series and 5 wins out of 6 – veras has pitched 1 inning giving up 2 walks and 1 hit. Edwar has pitched 1.2 innings giving up 3 walks. Yea they are doing us wonders. They should be promoted to the front office at this rate.

  414. Wang IS Taiwan May 17th, 2009 at 2:39 am

    It’s disappointing to see that so many people in this world no longer care much about right and wrong. Am I glad the Yankees won? You betcha. And yes, I would have preferred the HR come from someone else. I hope Arod improves his life — for his sake, but I certainly do not respect him. I understood that personal records were important to him, but didn’t realize to what extent he was willing to go to achieve them.

    Part of our ability as people to make good judgments in our lives life is based on what we’ve learned from past experiences with others. If you simply ignore people’s past actions by “forgiving” them (who are we to forgive him anyway?), you’re none-the-wiser. Let’s just say I’m wiser when it comes to Arod and believing what he says. Respect needs to be earned, as does trust.

  415. GreenBeret7 May 17th, 2009 at 2:45 am

    dave
    May 17th, 2009 at 2:30 am
    I dont know – they should just keep two of our best arms in triple A all year maybe and keep bringing out veras and edwar in tight games. That should really do wonders for us. Ya know how we are on this winning streak right now? By avoiding those 2 more than anything else and cleaning up after their messes if necessary. So maybe melancon and robertson had some difficult times in their 4 innings of work each but veras and edwar have had tough times all season without proving otherwise at any point. I would rather go with the talented guys who struggled over the talentless.

    ————————————————————

    If they were producing and getting hitters out, they’d be in NY. They only reason they are in Scranton is failure to produce and the fact that they have options. Now is not the time to experiment with young bullpenners when they have other things to get staight, such as getting healthy.

  416. Doug May 17th, 2009 at 2:46 am

    Not in the slightest. I wouldnt have wanted anyone else to have hit it. We all know he is a great player with or without roids…I viewed it more as redemtion…and honestly im sick of people constantly dragging this whole thing on.

    Be done with it pete.

  417. GreenBeret7 May 17th, 2009 at 2:47 am

    things to get ***straight*** , such as getting healthy.

  418. carl May 17th, 2009 at 2:49 am

    SD CIN 14 innings. Bases loaded 2 outs…

  419. Danno May 17th, 2009 at 2:49 am

    I did not stop to think about steroids for one second, only about what a fantastic end to the game it was, and i loved the team waiting at home……..

  420. carl May 17th, 2009 at 2:50 am

    Going to the 15th lol

  421. dave May 17th, 2009 at 2:59 am

    Now is not the time to experiment with young pen arms?

    I think now is the perfect time. While bruney and marte are still out and veras and edwar cant do jack. Why not now? Failure to produce when exactly? In their 4 innings of work, they did better than edwar and veras in their however many. I dont see how facing the angels and sox and getting a little shell shocked in the first few innings of a major league career is a sign of a failure to produce. Its the consistently getting hammered and walking the ballpark that should be taken as a SIGN. A sign that the 2008 versions of edwar and veras are gone – time to move on. Time to send them back to triple A to work on something that doesnt make them walk a batter per inning. Time to start trying something else with the pen because this pen is absolute crap and will only do something to completely destroy the momentum we have been building. Im sure when rbuney comes back things will be better but we might as well try something else in the meantime because this $hit we have going now is not going to keep working.

  422. carl May 17th, 2009 at 3:09 am

    Top 16

  423. johninny May 17th, 2009 at 3:16 am

    Pete please consider another profession. Your anti Rodriguez bias is consuming You. If You can’t become more objective, how can You vote for HOF??

  424. no.27 May 17th, 2009 at 3:18 am

    My problem with PEDs isn’t with the players that took them, it’s with the league for pretty much using them to make baseball popular again. If Selig wanted to stop steroid use he would have put a serious drug testing plan/penalty in place in the early 90s. Instead he chose to use it to bring baseball back from the strike.

    No one can say who did and didn’t take PEDs. The Yankees are in the steroid spotlight for a few reasons. 1, they are the biggest story in baseball, they are the most successful team and in the biggest market. 2, the Mitchell Report is the only real public source on who was using and the most of the information came from people in NY. 3, the Yankees sign a much higher percentage of top free agents than any other team. There has to be some sort of relationship between PEDs and big time free agents.

    Obviously the players that did take them have responsibility in the problem. At the same time, if MLB took care of the problem early they probably wouldn’t have taken these drugs with negative health affects. For me, the victims in this problem are just as much the people that did take steroids and negatively affect their long term health as the players that didn’t take them and didn’t perform as well. The people to blame are the people who could have done something about stopping it. That’s not Alex Rodriguez. Bud Selig and people who work for baseball and the Player’s Association should be called out and punished.

  425. carl May 17th, 2009 at 3:20 am

    SD wins 6-5 with a walk off homer. 16 innings

  426. KAT GILL May 17th, 2009 at 3:30 am

    I’m glad it was Alex.

    Question: who’s really the mastermind behind PED’s within MLB?

    Answer: follow the money.

  427. Brian May 17th, 2009 at 3:32 am

    I can relate to what you’re saying, Peter. I didn’t quite have the same enthusiasm for Alex’s homer as I did for Melky’s game-winning hit the previous night. However, the franchise is bigger than the individual player. I don’t care who drives in the winning run, I’m a happy man when the Yankees win.

    Brian in San Francisco

  428. Chris May 17th, 2009 at 4:16 am

    Simple answer. I don’t care what he has done in the past. I only care about today and tomorrow with this team, and more specifically with Arod.

    I was so happy when he hit that home run, and I will cheer for many more this season.

  429. Shanghai Bob May 17th, 2009 at 4:17 am

    Pete,

    1. As a Boston bred Sox/Pats fan I assure you that nobody has mistaken you for a Yankee homer

    2. Your flagrant completely unsubstantiated “hints” at ARod current PED use, put you in the same category as your trash writer Selena Roberts, who can now add “failed writer” on her resume.

    3. The only issue you uncovered in your blog so far is the “ethics of baseball reporting”. I assure you that you have plenty of issues there..

    Go Yankees! Go ARod!

  430. The_Kiid May 17th, 2009 at 4:26 am

    a win is a win. i dont care if ramiro pena hit the homerun…

  431. Michael May 17th, 2009 at 4:29 am

    Oh pete, you were doing so well lately… but now this, back to RAB for me.

    In other NEWS!!!! the Yanks acquired a reliever from the pirates system today, why don’t you report that.

  432. YankeeFan May 17th, 2009 at 4:41 am

    Pete, according to your logic, all criminal laws around the world should be scrapped and we should all go back to the Roman ways: “An eye for an eye.”
    No second chances for ANY kind of offender, and death sentences for anyone who kills someone else.

  433. DocBooch May 17th, 2009 at 4:54 am

    My only emotion was elation. I’m happy for him, the Yankees, and all the dedicated people who post their opinions and feelings on this site. He won a game in dramatic fashion, hopefully there are more to come.

    You should have put it in a poll, I’m guessing the hesitation answer whould have netted you 5%.

  434. bru May 17th, 2009 at 5:41 am

    i was happy it was arod.

    nobody in the game works harder or feels guilty about his absence from the team than arod does.

    arod is working very hard to be a better person from what i can tell.

    how many people making 30 million dollars a year do that?

  435. pecosmedic May 17th, 2009 at 5:56 am

    In all honesty, yeah, it made me thinkg for a second. But I was damn glad the Yankees won. I think about A-Rod and the steroids and how it has affected the game. But then again, I think about all the players that have cheated in every game and especially in baseball. If A-Rod did it, there are alot of players out there that did it. They just didn’t get caught or haven’t been caught yet. I also think about the players that cheated in the past years, corking the bat, sand paper in the glove, substances the make the ball curve a little more, pitch tipping (The Mick), and so forth. You said it yourself Pete, right is right and wrong is wrong. It doesn’t matter what form of cheating the players committed. Cheating is cheating. I don’t care how other people look at it.

    To be honest with you I don’t think any less of A-Rod because of the steroid issue. He’s a great player without them. He screwed up and that’s that. It was poor judgement. I’m willing to give him another chance.

    I just want the other names on that list to come out. I’m tired of A-Rod getting all this negative attention. If he should go through this then all the players should go through it. I hear everyone saying A-Rod needs to pay for his cheating. Well those other players need to go throught it as well.

  436. bru May 17th, 2009 at 6:46 am

    coincidentally steroids entered baseball at the time when it was struggling & owners,the union,players turned their heads to the problem because nothing was going to get in the way of all involved making billions.

    arod made a mistake & the public is & always will be in the corner of people getting beat up by the mass.

    we see it now with arod,selena roberts,the media.
    arod turned into the victim right before our eyes but needed to do & say the right things for this to happen.

    if he had a nasty,rebellious,i don’t care attitude this would not have happened.

  437. Usman May 17th, 2009 at 6:49 am

    His steroid use did not cross my mind at all during the at bat and after the homerun. He gave us an extra-innings win on a homerun- it was just that simple for me. If he had denied the steroids use, it would have been another story. I think Kim Jones put it best in the celebration interview, it is more about his journey forward at this point. There will always be speculation about his PED use that I hope helps Alex realizes has tarnished his reputation forever, and that the only thing left to do is to help the Yankees win.

    It may lift the burden off of his individualism and help him become a better player- but that is just me being a hopeful, optimistic fan. All I want is for the Yankees to win games and championships. Ultimately, Alex’s fate should be stamped by the BBWAA, he and we have no other option until then.

  438. Sweet_Lou_in_Vermont May 17th, 2009 at 7:07 am

    I think that if Pete continues his innuendoes and outright negativism regarding A-Rod, many will leave this blog. There are a million game blogs on the internet……

  439. Me May 17th, 2009 at 7:21 am

    You’ll leave the blog because Pete has the nerve to voice his opinions on his own blog? Yeah, that makes sense.

    While it is true that everyone is under suspicion, ARod is one of a handful who has been outed as an actual user. There is no suspicion, there is fact. So it only makes sense that people would take pause at cheering for a guy that they worry could still be cheating.

  440. 86w183 May 17th, 2009 at 7:42 am

    Interesting and thoughtful stuff from Pete and many of you posters as well.

    It didn’t give me any pause because I do not consider taking PEDs to be cheating. Perhaps that’s because I’m cynical enough to believe almost all professional athletes (and many, many amateurs) are doing something beyond the rules to get an edge. It has always been thus and it will always be thus.

    Did Mickey Mantle cheat when he popped unprescribed ampthetemines to get his body going? If your answer is no, then you cannot label PED users as cheaters.

    To me Gaylord Perry should receive more scorn than all the PED users combined. He employed a poreign substance to the ball during the game. That goes for the Niekros and their travelling files too. Hey, Yogi and Whitey have bragged about how they scuffed balls and kept them in play.

    Alex, Manny, Bonds, Clemens et al are just the modern version of what we have “known” about for half a century. No one is pure. No one is above reproach. And no one or small group of players deserves to bear the burden of paying the price for the steroid era.

    Pete, for every Rodney Harrison and Alex Rodriguez there are a hundred or more on HGH. There is no way to stop it without expanding testing and the players will NEVER agree to blood testing.

    And this phenomenon is not restricted to athletics. Name one profession (including the oldest one) where someone isn’t using something, trying something, bending the rules or pushing the ethical guidelines to be more successful. You can’t. Baseball isn’t horrible, but it isn’t special either. It’s a competitive enterprise where the participants look for ways to bypass/bbend the rules in order to achieve greater success.

  441. joesit.(ragman) May 17th, 2009 at 7:46 am

    Pete etal, this is all a load of crap you liberal media types have jammed down our throats. Integrity? performance enhancing? cheaters? Tell me please where is the line drawn. If illegal ok, if harmful ok, but integrity and cheating is a load. Hawking 5 hour enhancers, no problem, gatorade no problem, and on and on and on. Yet because an athlete wants to extend THEIR career with HGH they have a foot in hell and walking the slippery slope forever, NO HofF for you. You guys start debating HofF requirements 10 yars before it is even possible haha. What a joke.

  442. Sweet_Lou_in_Vermont May 17th, 2009 at 7:50 am

    Me May 17th, 2009 at 7:21 am

    You’ll leave the blog because Pete has the nerve to voice his opinions on his own blog? Yeah, that makes sense.

    While it is true that everyone is under suspicion, ARod is one of a handful who has been outed as an actual user. There is no suspicion, there is fact. So it only makes sense that people would take pause at cheering for a guy that they worry could still be cheating.
    =========================================================

    Of course it’s Pete’s blog and he is free to write what he wants, and we, as readers/consumers/sports fans, are free to go elsewhere to waste our time with more interesting things sports commentary than “A-Rod and PEDs”. So, I ask rhetorically, are we going to hear the same from Pete after each A-Rod HR this year?

  443. chris May 17th, 2009 at 8:17 am

    Emailed this to Pete. Wonder if I’ll get a response?

    “Just to pick up a point on your, “ethics of cheering” post. Please correct me if I am wrong but I do not recall you having any such discussion in relation to Pettitte or Giambi, even though they essentially committed the same acts (i.e. steroids) as A-rod. I am curious to know why you would seemingly give them a pass and not bring up the ethics of cheering them?

    Taking the above disparity into account and your multiple recent references on A-rod not hitting due to not being on steroids, you are certainly leading many to believe that you do have a dislike for A-rod. Now in a personal context that is fine. I don’t expect anyone to like everybody they meet in life. However from a professional standpoint it is really hurting your credibility with the many people who view and read your blog.

    If you had taken this stance with other such players (such as the previously listed Yankees you have covered in the past few years) who had been involved in steroidsin baseball then it would be a fair point, but to suddenly stand on one’s soapbox and get on this issue now, in relation to this specific player reeks of bias and does you no good in the eyes of your readers.”

  444. Whitey Fraud May 17th, 2009 at 8:25 am

    Some intelligent comments and some not so.

    The clown who blames “the liberal media” gets some kind of prize, though.

    Awesome.

  445. 86w183 May 17th, 2009 at 8:29 am

    I agree Whitey… he didn’t even have the sense to use the new Faux approved label “mainstream” media.

    Hard to imagine “Liberals” being less tolerant of drug use than “Conservatives”.

  446. jvcelt May 17th, 2009 at 8:40 am

    mr pete,
    it makes me wonder why r sense of ethics isn’t screaming for u to demand the names of the other 104 guys. in my world of ethics, i give arod a pass until i find out what the real rules r.

  447. Damian Hospital May 17th, 2009 at 8:45 am

    Come on, Peter. You generally rise above the mainstream media character assassinations.

    What is the alternative to not cheering A-Rod?

    Boo him into the next decade?
    Give him silence?
    Protest in front of the Stadium demanding he void his contract?
    ANGEL BERROA?

  448. Me May 17th, 2009 at 8:49 am

    “but to suddenly stand on one’s soapbox and get on this issue now, in relation to this specific player reeks of bias and does you no good in the eyes of your readers.”

    People need to grasp the difference between a blog (even if it is the blog of a professional writer) and a column. Blogs are exactly for what you complain about. To write with your own voice and particular biases. If Pete were blindly “bashing” ARod in The Journal News, that would be something I’d understand fans taking issue with. (Although I don’t think he does that here either.) But this is his blog, a place for him to air his opinions. I don’t see the problem.

    Nick Swisher wrote on Twitter last night “ARod’s back!”. My reaction upon reading that was to laugh. How can you brag someone is “back” when they’ve already admitted to using PEDs to help them get to where they used to be?

  449. JeterJobaFan May 17th, 2009 at 8:52 am

    Kevin: I can’t believe in this day and age you condemn Mantle for his alcohol use and compare it to taking steroids. Alcoholism is considered a disease and believe me I have lived with it. Taking steriods to improve your athletic ability is cheating, no matter who does it.

  450. Sweet_Lou_in_Vermont May 17th, 2009 at 8:56 am

    I hope A-Rod hits 3 HRs today

  451. Sweet_Lou_in_Vermont May 17th, 2009 at 8:57 am

    correction…..I hope A-Rod hits 4 HRs today……

  452. JeterJobaFan May 17th, 2009 at 9:00 am

    Jack NYC – your comments were compelling until you got to the sexual part. Why would you sink to that level to get your point across. Another analoogy would have worked better. You effectively killed your remarks with that verbage. Go back and read the rules for posting – vulgar fits you to a T.

  453. quizzkid May 17th, 2009 at 9:02 am

    Pete, it’s okay by me if you feel that way about A-Rod, as long as you feel the same way about Jason Giambi. So, do you?

  454. chris May 17th, 2009 at 9:10 am

    Quizzkid,

    This is what Pete said about Giambi when he returned:

    “Jason Giambi will be back in New York today. You can count on a nice ovation from the fans.

    The Big G spent seven seasons in New York. He hit only .260 but belted 209 home runs, which is 10th in team history. Giambi had a solid .925 OPS.

    His legacy in New York is mixed. Giambi never helped the Yankees win a World Series and it was during his time here that Giambi was forced to admit he used steroids. He also missed large chunks of time with injuries.

    But Giambi was a colorful figure who had a lot of fans. When he grew a mustache for luck last season, fans took to wearing fake ‘staches to games and the Yankees even had fake mustache day to promote Giambi’s All-Star candidacy. Jason wasn’t voted in, but everybody had a good time with it.”

    He mentions steroids but fails to mention any ethical cheering issue he had or fans should have had with him when he was playing.

  455. NJ Steve May 17th, 2009 at 9:14 am

    The story today should have been about Texiera, not ARod. That being said, I will bite Pete. The answer to me is no. ARod never tested positive for steroids therefore I don’t have an issue with him or anyone else doing them before they started a legitimate testing program. This was baseball’s fault, not the players. The players union should have been strong enough to force their members to stay clean because it IS unfair to the players who were clean. However, the players union and baseball looked the other way. Now, if I found out ARod cheated the tests once started, that is a different story. Players getting caught now (like Manny) are problems, ARod was just one of probably 40% of the players.

  456. Sports Update May 17th, 2009 at 9:38 am

    Pete, it’s an interesting point that you raise — nothing wrong with putting it out there. As I suspect that over half the players were users of PEDs, I don’t view A-Rod differently on this point than anyone else. His name was leaked among 104 players for failing a test — there are at least 103 other cheaters who will some day be named. No doubt a bunch of them were teammates of Manny’s in Boston. When one of their players hits a walk off home run, I don’t think about HGH or any other PED. As a life long Yankee fan, I will root for A-Rod to do well here the same way I root for Pettitte and rooted for the Giambino when he was here. Without all the facts about all the players, we don’t really have any alternative.

  457. Tyler May 17th, 2009 at 9:51 am

    Peter,

    Bottom line: You’re not hesitant to cheer for A-rod because he cheated. You are hesitant to cheer for him because you don’t like him. You were never hesitant to cheer for Giambi all these years or Pettitte because of what they were caught doing.

  458. Alex May 17th, 2009 at 9:54 am

    You are a joke! The worst journalist in sports. You make Joe Morgan and Steve Phillips look intelligent.

  459. E May 17th, 2009 at 9:54 am

    Hey I agree to some parts. You can’t forget he did steroids. Right now he is with the Yankees and you want all of them to contribute. Throw all those distractions aside. He is a Yankee and you have to support him.

  460. Vader May 17th, 2009 at 9:55 am

    Fortunately for me my son is only 6 and has no clue what PEDs are and until that day when he asks me there is no reason to even talk about Arod in that light.

    As for me…I’m not naive enough to believe that a majority of the players were mot using something at one time and it cracks me up when someone like Oswalt says stuff like, he hit a few homers off me and that changed my stats…what about Clemens and Andy taking the Astros to the WS…nothing wrong there.

    IMO, it is the classic case of a union…one for all and all for one. When guys who were using were escalating salaries for guys like Oswalt there was no need to say anything since they all benefited monetarily.

    So now, for anyone that has this high morality, where were you 10 years ago?…Under a rock since it benefited them.

    I wish that MLB had a real commissioner a few years back…when congress was letting the whole world know that they too are buffoons and we shouldn’t be surprised that this country is in the trouble it is in since they are the ones running it…(sorry), but the commissioner should have stood up like a man and taken the blame and said it was in the past and that this will not happen again, but he needed someone to blame and we are where we are.

    However, this is the world we live in now, where everything has to happen it 10 seconds or the masses go off the wall…it’s like playing 162 one game seasons… fixing the wind patterns in new Stadium after some 5 home games…some things just have a way of working themselves out.

    Did anyone really think that, flower power, bell bottoms, polyester leisure suits, parachute pants, leg warmers or fluorescent sweatshirts were going to last forever?

    So, suspend players that are dumb enough to use and sooner or later the game will clean itself up…until the next new thing comes around.

  461. yankeesjtj May 17th, 2009 at 9:59 am

    I didn’t give it a second thought. It makes no difference to me who hit the game winning shot. I personally don’t like Alex and never have. I personally think he’s a worse human being for cheating on his wife than in baseball. I don’t really give the steroids scandal a whole lot of thought because It really makes no difference. There will always be people taking something or doing something to try to one up the competition… whether it is a corked bat, scuffing balls, taking all kinds of drugs, etc. It’s always been done and always will be. It doesn’t make it right, it is what it is. Does it stink for the guys who do it naturally? Yep. but as a lifelong baseball fan, I’m just happy to have the games being played and my team out on the field.

  462. ist_ny May 17th, 2009 at 10:01 am

    Let us celebrate the victory. you, other media persons and yankee haters pause and think about steroid.

  463. YankeeFan4eva May 17th, 2009 at 10:04 am

    I was at the game and I believe it was special to watch the best player in baseball hit an explosive homerun. Never paused and I root for Alex because he is the best in baseball.

  464. murphydog May 17th, 2009 at 10:06 am

    Is it the PEDs or the personality that gets in the way, is it my view of the sinner and not the sin?

    I was ready to forgive Giambi. I was more reluctant to forgive A-Rod because everything I know about him grates on me, the selfishness, the aloofness, the inner jerkness. But a) he’s clean now, b) we all have to move on and c) his PED use didn’t get him any titles, championships or genuine love and affection from the fans so IMO he really didn’t benefit from the cheating. I know, I know… it may have got him a bigger contract, but with all the money that was being thrown around, who knows how much more he got than he would have without PEDs?

    So, he screwed the fans over by cheating with PEDs, but in all likelihood, it got him nowhere that his real talent wouldn’t have taken him. Was it wrong? Yup, and he bears the stain of it for the rest of his career. Can I give him a second chance and root for him now that he’s clean? Yeah. Will I ever love the way he rolls, no. But so what – am I really going to boo him for his lifestyle? No.

  465. Me May 17th, 2009 at 10:08 am

    the best player in baseball*

  466. Alex May 17th, 2009 at 10:08 am

    If players used amphetamines in the 50′ 60′s and 70′s how is that not considered cheating? If hall of fame pitchers used to have vasoline on their ball caps how is that not cheating? Baseball is notorious for guys trying to get an edge. I don’t blame any ball player for taking steroids. I would be more upset with guys who didn’t take it as Major League Baseball practically encouraged it. Baseball was reborn again with the McGwire/Sosa slugfest.

    Also what happend to Alex Rodriguez was illegal. His name never should of leaked.

  467. traceynyy May 17th, 2009 at 10:11 am

    whoever said there were “more guys around melky” when he walked off than there were for a-rod yesterday is either blind or an obvious a-rod “hater.” that statement is completely and utterly FALSE. Watch again sir, count the players… see the guys half way up the 3rd base line waiting for him… LOL too funny. Just proves some people only see what they want to see I guess.

  468. murphydog May 17th, 2009 at 10:12 am

    “You are a joke! The worst journalist in sports. You make Joe Morgan and Steve Phillips look intelligent.”

    In order to make Joe Morgan and Steve Phillips look intelligent Pete would have to be taking the journalistic equivalent of PEDs – nobody would be able to pull off a feat like that without help.

    Seriously, Pete’s admitting that he’s conflicted about the whole thing and asking for our opinions. Admitting that makes him a bad guy? Grow up.

  469. Bronx Born May 17th, 2009 at 10:20 am

    I have had the benefit of reading all the posts before commenting. Pete brought up a really brilliant point about an ethical dilemma. It brought some great discussion. It is ridiculous to rip Pete because you do not agree with him. He created this forum, it is stupid to kill the messenger. Pete brought up a good point. You all discussed, this had nothing to do with anything else. How you can rip Pete is beyond comprehension. Well done for creating this discussion Pete, think we learned something from it. Unlike most other reporters and media, Pete gives us the opportunity to think and does not just have a secret agenda to rile folks up over issues. He helps make us think about it and gives us the opportunity to state our thoughts and feelings. Pete should be validated not criticized!

  470. Amandla May 17th, 2009 at 10:29 am

    I can’t stand A-Rod not simply because of the PED’s but because he’s a self-involved show-off. I didn’t like him long before the PED’s. Watching the game yesterday, yeah I was happy we won but having to watch that moron round the bases taints it for me. I take comfort in that he has been revealed and only the blind Yankee fans are on his bandwagon. I doubt many kids are going to be getting into baseball because of Arod. Far more will be inspired by the likes of Mr Jeter than him. There’s more to a hero than stats.

  471. Amandla May 17th, 2009 at 10:29 am

    I can’t stand A-Rod not simply because of the PED’s but because he’s a self-involved show-off. I didn’t like him long before the PED’s. Watching the game yesterday, yeah I was happy we won but having to watch that moron round the bases taints it for me. I take comfort in that he has been revealed and only the blind Yankee fans are on his bandwagon. I doubt many kids are going to be getting into baseball because of Arod. Far more will be inspired by the likes of Mr Jeter than him. There’s more to a hero than stats.

  472. Vince May 17th, 2009 at 10:33 am

    Perhaps Alex really is growing up and part of it is limiting what he says to the untrustworthy media.
    He’s keeping it simple which is what he should have been doing all along.
    “No comment” or “I’m not going there” should be part of his everyday dealing with the media. By now, he knows who the vultures are.

  473. Peter Abraham May 17th, 2009 at 11:01 am

    Thanks again to those who made thoughtful comments.

    I expected the knee-jerk stupidity of some people. You simply can’t raise any sort of point on the internet without somebody saying, “you’re bashing (fill in the blank).”

    I also find it amusing this idea that I’m supposed to support the team or players. That’s your job, not mine. My job is to report on them. Trust me, you don’t want a fan being a beat writer. That would be the poorest coverage you can get.

    It seemed to me that the best time to raise his question was when he did something dramatic like win a game. Alex is the most notable player in the game for reasons good and bad. What he does and his impact on people is 100x greater than Giambi, Pettitte or anybody else. Plus he’ll be a Yankee for nine more years.

    I’m glad to see that 95 percent of you can have a reasonable discussion.

  474. Tim Sherman May 17th, 2009 at 11:03 am

    The root for the laundry thing is almost right. I want the people wearing the uniforms to win, not the logo and pinstripes. I want the team to win. Personally I am so tired of all the cheating talk that I could care less about it. Noone will ever know who cheated and who didn’t because baseball’s leadership (and that includes the players union, which includes all players) chose to look the other way when they knew exactly what was going on. The game is forever tainted and that includes all players because they could have taken a stand and chose not to. So I continue to root for my team and I don’t judge individual players, because all of them are equally guilty.

  475. Toast May 17th, 2009 at 11:18 am

    So, Pete: I assume you’re looking forward to Belichick retiring as the Pats’ coach, yes? After all, he’s a cheater. Or does he get a pass because Mangini is a rat and “everybody does it” or whatever?

  476. chris May 17th, 2009 at 11:22 am

    Pete,

    You still didn’t address the issue. Yes, A-rod has a greater impact on the Yankees than Pettitte or Giambi, but that shouldn’t impact your ethical issue. They were all involved in the same act. If you have problems cheering for one, you have problems cheering for them all.

    If your ability or a fans ability to root for any of the above players differs then you either believe one player’s crime to be greater than the others or you are bias for other reasons, such as a personal dislike for one player compared with the others.

    If you don’t like him then that is fine, but if that is the case then admit your bias and move on rather than making cheap comments in-game and starting posts like this as though this issue has just dawned on you.

  477. Subway Squawkers May 17th, 2009 at 11:28 am

    Pete, you wrote:

    “Alex is the most notable player in the game for reasons good and bad. What he does and his impact on people is 100x greater than Giambi, Pettitte or anybody else. Plus he’ll be a Yankee for nine more years.”

    Am I missing something here? Your initial argument was comparing cheering for A-Rod to whether you would cheer for Rodney Harrison, who is a very good player, but is not the A-Rod of football.

    I don’t understand why whether A-Rod is an all-time great and used steroids should play into whether to cheer him in an individual game. HOF consideration – yes. Whether or not to root for your own player – no.

  478. yanks69 May 17th, 2009 at 11:30 am

    pete, you hit the nail on the head. i was glad he hit the homerun obviously but i didn’t feel comfortable cheering loudly for him (i was at home), but i was going nuts when teixeira hit that game-tying single in the 8th. only time will tell if i will ever feel comfortable cheering for a-rod.

  479. Sumo Todd May 17th, 2009 at 11:32 am

    SJ44 said:

    “This is one topic where there is a serious disconnect between the fans and the media.”

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    HA! That is a good one. There isn’t enough time in the day to chronicle the innumerable subjects upon which the media is out of touch with people. Steroids in baseball is merely one area in which the erosion of journalistic integrity has crept into the soft side of the media – sports journalism.

  480. chris May 17th, 2009 at 11:40 am

    credit to him, he did respond to my email, but with the same weak “100x more important” answer.

    It really annoys me that the media constantly demand answers and will complain if they don’t get the answer they like. Yet the rare time they are asked a question they come out with such weak crappy answers that they themselves would not accept.

    Hypocrites!

  481. trisha - Joe Girardi knows more than you do! May 17th, 2009 at 11:46 am

    I did not have a moment’s pause since I know that forgiveness in life is huge if you’re going to get on with your life! Not of course that Arod needs my forgiveness.

    I think I’m trying to say that no matter how hard Pete attempts to keep rubbing our noses in this, I am an independent enough thinker that he doesn’t sway me in any way. I am intelligent enough to know that Arod is clean right now only because I know he’s not stupid enough to be using. So I am thrilled to have seen his natural talent win us this game.

    I got over Giambi doing it because Giambi acknowledged it.

    I guess in the alternative we could always vow to never enjoy another game where Arod plays, either that or have him killed.

    Short of that I’m fine with Arod.

  482. cubandude May 17th, 2009 at 11:53 am

    This is just another dirty shot from Pete at AROD.

    And FYI, AROD made a mistake, sure, but he was a super monster since he came up and has always been, and he’s clearly a guy you can say that PEDs wouldn’t have made any effect on. So PEDs or not, AROD’s stats look pretty much constant throughout his career, so please: STOP portraying the guy like he couldn’t make without PED’s (Like Ortiz).

  483. Angel - A tale told by idiots, full of sound and fury - signifying nothing. May 17th, 2009 at 12:08 pm

    “I can’t stand A-Rod not simply because of the PED’s but because he’s a self-involved show-off.”

    ********************************************

    Kinda like someone who has to post their stuff twice?

    “I take comfort in that he has been revealed and only the blind Yankee fans are on his bandwagon.”

    ******************************************************

    Yeah, so “revealed” the book is a massive bestseller.

    Well you seem to have company on your bandwagon of bitter shrewishness too. You can take comfort in that, too.

  484. Sumo Todd May 17th, 2009 at 12:33 pm

    So I did a running average in my head and it’s about 5% of the comments thought about steroids when Alex hit the HR and 95% did not. I think that pretty clearly indicates how this should be approached by the media.

    Interesting that Pete brings up the fact that the media turned a blind eye during the heyday of steroids. Thing is, you don’t get a do-over for that by covering the same topic extra super hard now. Doesn’t work that way.

    If the media wants to make amends for that episode they need to look at why they looked the other way back then and change the behavior that caused them to do so, transparently report on what led them to look the other way and report on what they are doing to change their behavior.

  485. KGsturnz0r217 May 17th, 2009 at 12:38 pm

    “Wait a second… You are a Pats fan and you still root for them after their current Head Coach was caught cheating and they had to forfeit a 1st round draft pick last year?

    Seems to me that you already know the answer to your question… Which is that at the end of the day, all we root for is ‘the laundry’.”

    Great post, ED K.

    If you wanted someone besides Alex to get the GW hit, I really don’t know where you are coming from. you could be sacrificing the game by the time someone else gets a chance to win the game.

  486. Spiced Ham May 17th, 2009 at 1:20 pm

    Pete… Come on. Stupid post

  487. David Horenstein May 17th, 2009 at 2:05 pm

    Pete, why is it that you and everyone in the media, finds it okay to look the other way when it comes to taking uppers?

    You’re telling me that players like Mantle, who would party all night, didn’t take anything to play the next day?

    Or that Hank Aaron was able to go for 20 seasons to break Babe’s record?

    Or course it was a gigantic coincidence that the moment uppers were banned, teams decided that giving longterm deals to players in their 30′s was risky.

    The owners knew what was happening, so did the commisioner. So please explain how this is “cheating?”

    I suppose I’m now attacking you.

  488. Laura May 17th, 2009 at 2:57 pm

    Awful article. I was at the game and it was, for me, the BEST possible ending. And it sure sounded like everyone there agreed. Love him or hate him, the Yankees are stuck with A-Rod for, what, 10 years?!? ACCEPT IT AND MOVE ON!!! Every time he comes to the plate I will be praying for another home run like the one yesterday, and since he is A-Rod I’m sure there will be many more.

    Pete, you need to get over this ridiculous hatred for A-Rod and write some real articles.

  489. Laura May 17th, 2009 at 3:26 pm

    I would also like to add that I DO NOT agree with steroid use. That being said, IT HAPPENED. We need to move on. There is cheating of all kinds in sports. I don’t think any of it is right. But I am also not going to say that a guy who admitted to using steroids years ago shouldn’t be cheered now. There is no evidence he has used since, and unless someone gives it to me I will continue rooting for A-Rod. He has been unfairly singled out. I don’t care if he is the highest-paid athlete, that doesn’t mean that the 103 other names aren’t just as guilty as he is.

    One more thing… ANOTHER AROD HOMER… cheering for this one too :)

  490. yanks May 17th, 2009 at 4:07 pm

    darn girardi, mariano needs his arm
    and now he has to deal with 345

  491. yanks May 17th, 2009 at 4:08 pm

    mauer is just good….no real way to describe him other than that

    i have a bad feeling with mo today

  492. Ramondo May 17th, 2009 at 4:42 pm

    See..it doesn’t matter who hits it just as long as someone hits it!! Go Johnny Damon!!!

  493. Rich May 17th, 2009 at 5:34 pm

    Your hating on Arod is really getting old.

  494. Alex May 17th, 2009 at 7:24 pm

    Pete, way to get 500 posts. I give you credit as this did raise a great debate and i’m happy to see that the majority of people understand how good of a player Alex Rodriguez is and how valuable he is to the team. In general though I find it shocking that people are dumb enough to hate a 3 time MVP who has a lifetime OPS+ of over 140 but whatever Scott Brosius with his lifetime 90 OPS + was better haha what a joke

  495. David Horenstein May 17th, 2009 at 8:59 pm

    The following is a line to a Foxsports article that links to an interview done in 2005 and from testimony from Henry Waxman, both which state that Steroid Use was rampant as far back as the 60′s.

    It also has an analysis commenting on the sudden increase of home runs Hank Aaron had starting at the age of 38 (at a time when ballplayers decline, he suddenly surged forward.) WOW, that sounds an awfully close to Bonds, gee I wonder if ol’ Hammerin Hank gave some advice to Bonds.

    http://community.foxsports.com.....Hank_Aaron

    This link is from MSNBC and it mentions Willie Mays’ “red juice” (or Gogo juice), which is the same stuff as greenies.

    http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/6642822/

    Greenies or to use a more common term, METH!. That’s right, greenies are meth (also known as speed or uppers), which are far more deadilier then steroids are. They also have a far more damaging impact on teenagers and young adults. One only has to look at the damage it did to Elvis Presley. See, the side effects of meth causes people to then take something to bring them down.

    So once again, I ask, where is this outrage over greenies? Why Pete, since you know for a GOD DAMN FACT, that this was a common practice, did you and every one of your peers not only ignored it, but did everything to cover it up?

    METH > Steroids

  496. David Horenstein May 17th, 2009 at 9:02 pm

    BTW, Cortizone is a steroid and Keith Hernandez took cocaine, which is also a stimulant. It’s laughable when Cohen becomes outraged over steroids when he’s sitting next to a cokehead.

  497. Infernoscurse May 18th, 2009 at 1:50 am

    mr andy hawkins, there are hundres of players who took steroids and were caught that never hit monster homeruns, most of them were lucky to hit 15.

    Second i know im a customer to the yankees, to me they are the team i root for, i follow and adore year in year out, to me they are like family

    Now is it right to use steroids? no, Would i have done it in this era? if i thought i wouldnt get caught i would, who hasnt drink and driven? who hasnt cheated in life, lied to someone?, punched in to work 2 hours later but marked like you were 2 hours b4? I really dont care to pass judgement on others when i myself havent been the most honest person in life and the same way ive made many mistakes i regret i understand others make them also.

    if he used steroids it doesnt hurt me, or my kids or anyone other than himself and those close to him so please bare the trying to put any sort of guilt on my behalf for having my point of view and for forgiving someones mistakes, if you cant deal with the fact then thats your personal problem.

  498. Rick May 18th, 2009 at 10:00 am

    Should I take your question less serious because you happen to have numerous DUI’s ? I don’t know if you do but the point is very few of us have NEVER made a mistake. If I only rooted for perfect people, it would be a very small group.

    Not only did I yell and clap out loud in my living room, I cherish the look and smile Arod gave the bench on his way to first.

    Is your question racial, moral or just simple hatred? Should we stop to question the background including race, sex, political leaning or home country of all athletes before we decide whether to cheer or not?

  499. Barbara May 18th, 2009 at 10:14 am

    Pete:
    Do you root for Bellicheck? Since he was exposed as a cheater, we know that in good concience you cannot.

  500. Jim May 18th, 2009 at 10:50 am

    Pete:
    Maybe I am simplifying things a little for myself to make it easier to digest, but, I have an easier time celebrating A-Rod’s homer today (when I am fairly sure that he is clean)with a clear conscience than I would if I rooted for him in 2003 (when he was dirty). I am not really comfortable going with the “once a thief, always a thief” attitude that a lot of sports writers seem to be rallying to. We know now that A-Rod did roids in 2003, when the test was conducted. We do not have any evidence that he has done anything since (other than completely unsubstantiated “sources” cited under a cloud of secrecy reminiscent of cold war espionage). I’m sorry, but, while I do not approve of his past transgressions, and I am not sure how those transgressions unltimately will contribute to or detract from Hall of Fame consideration and records of achievement, I will cheer for him now (in this moment). He is a player of (at least) better than average talent, playing at a time when he is under a great deal of scrutiny (which is totally deserved due to off the field antics and his admission to PED use), and I am willing to believe that he will finish his career with at least an annual production of 30-40 homeruns, .300 batting ave, 100+RBI with little difficulty. He is not going anywhere anytime soon, so you are going to have to just deal with his presence as best you can.

  501. Will May 18th, 2009 at 11:14 am

    Cheating and the Patriots? Who? What? Where? When? How about all of the above. I think the issue raised is very interesting, but I think the lack of context blurs the issue. Why is ok for Bellicheck to devise a sophisticated form of cheating, but Rodney Harrison taking HGH is so bad (especially when HGH has no proven PED impact…in fact, studies show the opposite)?

    For some reason, we seem to overlook the white collar criminal, but condemn the blue collar crime. After all, do we know the level of complicity in each organization? Lou Merloni pretty much said the Sox taught the players how to take steroids.

    Finally, I’d much rather cheer for a steroid user than a wife beater, gun toter, deadbeat dad (multiple times over), gang banger, etc.

    If we stopped cheering for imperfect people, the silence would be deafening.

  502. David Horenstein May 18th, 2009 at 10:02 pm

    That’s a good post Will. Forgotten in all of this, is that MLB, the officials, and the commisioner encouraged the use of steroid use. It wasn’t against the rules to take them and Bud Selig wanted nothing to do with drug testing and was forced to do so by Congress. They like every sports journalist, knew about uppers (and then downers) being taken (it was first reported in Ball Four) and they didn’t care.

    After all, why didn’t Mitchell investigate the Dominican Republic? Because, Baseball didn’t want him too. So despite evidence of rampant steroid use, everyone just keeps their mouths shut (including reporters, as their only investigating deals with smear campaigns against individual ballplayers).

    And, if you have a hitter that didn’t do so well last year, why you can have him spend the winter in the DR. Shhhhhhh! Just don’t say anything.

    And, if that gets out, well reporters can rage against that too.

    Scapegoat the players, but never, ever have league officials, the commissioners, GMs, managers, or owners be accountable.

    BTW, remember when Basketball players were skinny? Care to explain how Lebron James is the size of Hulk Hogan in his prime?


Sponsored by:
 

Search

    Advertisement

    Follow

    Mobile

    Read The LoHud Yankees Blog on the go by navigating to the blog on your smartphone or mobile device's browser. No apps or downloads are required.

Advertisement

Place an ad

Call (914) 694-3581