Good challenge for Joba tonight
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on May 26, 2009 
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Joba Chamberlain said about 100 times yesterday that he feels fine and is ready to start tonight.
Two points of interest:
• Joba has not pitched well against Texas in his brief career. 8.2 innings, 13 hits, 7 runs, 6 walks, 11 strikeouts. The Rangers have hit .333 against him.
• It was here last year when he left the game with a shoulder injury that put him on the DL.
Good test for him tonight as the Yankees try and win for the 12th time in their last 14 games.
Back later with the lineups and more.
Yes it is. Hughes stepped up to the challenge, now let’s see if Joba can.
I am much more confident in Joba tonight than I am in Burnett tomorrow
Francesca said that 9th inning was the greatest in Mets history ? He’s got to be kidding. He spent 15 minutes singing hosanahs to the Mets for getting through a little stretch where they’ve had some injuries…..However, the Yankees have dealt with far worse all year and not once did he ever give them credit. I have no idea what Mike said about the Yanks after I turned the radio off, but I doubt it was good. Did he mention how impressive it was to beat up on the Rangers after a tough loss at home? Did he mention Phil? He’s an odd duck as a Yankee fan – he critic
Oops…..I meant to say that Mike criticizes the Yankees FAR more than he praises them.
BIG NIGHT FOR JOBA TONIGHT.
even though we seem to be saying that about every one of his starts!
Yeah… because taking 2\3 in Fenway when they were walking wounded and had 1\2 the team ailing, when nobody gave them a chance wasn’t impressive.
Mets deserve their props. I wish we capitalized on it though.
Betsy
He hasn’t gotten to the Yankees yet. I think at 2 o’clock he will.
Right now it’s all about the Mets great weekend @ Fenway.
Oh please… Mike ALWAYS takes pot shots at the Mets and doesn’t miss a chance to compare them to the Yankees.
His Red Sox admiration is a different story, but they deserve all the respect they get. It’s not like it is unwarranted.
Yeah, props to the Mets for giving the Sawx grief over the weekend. As much as I dislike their team and especially their fans, all of their big players are hurt or hurting. The fact that they are in the race at all is amazing.
Joba is going to be fine, he’s been pitching great and I think he should have a representative performance tonight.
Oh c’mon. Mets had a great weekend. did any of us think they had a chance to win a series in fenway? i didn’t even think they would get a game
they took 2\3 against boston, we lost 2\3 to philly. why should he praise us and knock the mets?
innings tonight, Joba.. that’s all I want to see.
Just because Francessa doesn’t say “Yankees are the best! Boston sucks! Ortiz is on roids! Yanks will win the WS!”, doesn’t mean he is any less of a fan than some of us.
Joba innings tonight or else we have to deal w/ fatboy trying to ban you to the BP tomorrow for life again
“they took 2\3 against boston, we lost 2\3 to philly. why should he praise us and knock the mets?”
maybe b/c the season isn’t 3 games long and the Yankees look like they are a much better team than the Mets?
My guess is that Joba will be motivated by Phil’s great performance yesterday and will want to turn in one of his own. His problem is pitch count. Once he figures out how to be economical with his pitches, he is going to be deadly.
Is Joba still doing that simulated inning thing? I mean, if it works, go with it, I guess, but it does limit how many pitches he can throw in the actual game.
Jobber need to be economical.
Cut down on the BBs and go deep. Throw strikes. Texas will swing.
Why the red hats last night. please don’t tell me i’ve been seeing those for awhile and just noticed them. Anybody?
People are still listening to Francessa???
He’s a pompous windbag who prattles on and on, repeating the same lines ad nauseum.
Move along, nothing to see here.
Rover:
Memorial Day thing.
Rover -
All the teams wore red hats per MLB for Memorial Day.
Wow, it’s possible that tonight will be Joba’s last start in his career
Hi all,
Ive been reading this blog and the comments for the last 2 years and I really enjoy it, so thanks Pete, and thanks to all the intelligent posters like sj44 (congrats to you& your nephew), gb7, Betsy etc. And to all the stupid pessimistic posters, sometimes I get a kick out of you as well just lmao how silly you are!
With all the recent talk about Yankee stadium being a bandbox and all home runs hit there, does anybody know if there is a website that keeps home runs hit total for ballparks?
hittracker.com
“Wow, it’s possible that tonight will be Joba’s last start in his career”
Explain why ? is GI Joe dieing ?
They might put Wang in Joba’s place in the rotation, stabilize the rotation
This team has a great make – up and good vibes going right now. Its a lot of fun to watch them, even the game they lost on Sunday, it was fun, because they played so hard and lost to a very, very, very solid team.
If 62 can get them a nice 6-7 inning game tonight we can take the series, i love this, its when baseball starts to count.
“They might put Wang in Joba’s place in the rotation, stabilize the rotation”
pfffft…LMAO he’s not taking Joba’s spot.
JJ May 26th, 2009 at 2:18 pm
Wow, it’s possible that tonight will be Joba’s last start in his career
================================
I don’t think so
Is that a Francesa topic (Joba’s last start ever) today?
I doubt that will be the case, even if he got blasted today.
What i was just thinking reading all this about Capps….I feel yanks pursue him towards the deadline….yanks and pirates love to trade….why not make a trade for him?
“What i was just thinking reading all this about Capps….I feel yanks pursue him towards the deadline….yanks and pirates love to trade….why not make a trade for him?”‘
Enough ! we deal too much w/ them and not one has panned out.
Wow, it’s possible that tonight will be Joba’s last start in his career
How is that possible and who said it?
So when does Wang pitch next?
De La Rosa and Jorge Vasquez for Matt Capps?
‘stabilize the rotation’?
I’d call any rotation that wins 11 out of 13 pretty damn stable.
Crazy caller alert on with Michael Kay.
Bye Frankie!
I want JJ’s drugs
You guys realize that Capps has been, like, not good this year, right? And is currently hut?
Coach,
Night Owl’s drugs are more potent. DeLa Rosa and Vasquez for a run of the mill arm? I don’t think so.
Go out and get Houston Street
He has had success in the AL, young, and is probably fairly cheap
Capps took a line drive off his pitching elbow last night. The X-Rays turned up negative.
He was lucky. The ball hit him flush on the elbow. I was surprised he didn’t break it.
http://hittrackeronline.com/
They are not paying Wang $5 million to be a mop up man
Once his stuff starts to look better, he is going back to the rotation.
When the team starts winning, the stories are about baseball. When they are losing it’s about everything else.
For example, notice that nobody is talking so much about Joe Girardi’s job security, Phil Hughes’ heart or whether Joba should be in the bullpen or that rotten A-Rod and his steroids and girlfriends…
The bullpen staff is still a big quesion mark and where to stick Nady, Posada and Molina when they come back is an issue, but winning pretty much soothes the savage beast.
Kevin S. May 26th, 2009 at 2:05 pm
JoeT – I didn’t know pitchers made the playoffs independently of their teams. Yes, TEAM wins are of paramount importance. Pitcher wins tell us very little about a player.
————————————————————
They don’t make the playoffs independently of the team, but if you take all of the pitchers on a team and add up all the wins they get you see if the team is a playoff team or not…. and one pitcher that can consistently give you 18-20 of those 90+ wins you need, is an ace
SJ,
BUT BUT, WE NEED ARMS11!!!1
Has anyone noticed how good our pen has been lately. Amazing what happens when you get length from your starters, right?
AD
Agreed about the good vide around the team. One of the players, I think it was Alex said they were ticked they didn’t win Sundays game with as well as CC pitched. Maybe in years past they would have hung their heads about it. Instead, they come out with fire and are angry. Good to see.
“Go out and get Houston Street”
Another joke clearly.
Francesa talking about Yuuuuse now
Here is the Jobber to the pen topic.
jeez why do people get their panties in a bunch over what Francesca says, turn off the radio already.
“They are not paying Wang $5 million to be a mop up man”
- But they are paying him 5 million dollars a year to give up 25 runs over 9 innings?
Come on, Wang is in the Pen until someone gets hurt, or P.Hugh has about 3 or 4 starts in a row where he gets rocked…. Get use to it
What is Francesa talking about? I have not heard any “rumblings” that some Yankee players don’t like Girardi. What is his sources?
lol Man, he killed Girardi for not letting Hughes get the CG
If anything, there have been articles about how much looser Girardi was this year and how the players really appreciate it.
Swisher, Damon, AJ, Teix etc. have all praised him for that recently.
Uh, no. Wang is in the pen until he shows them he is ready to start.
When he is, he will be back in the rotation.
Wang is not going to be in the bullpen the rest of the season. Nor does he have to “earn” his way back.
He was hurt and is trying to come back from a serious injury. When he does, he’s back in the rotation.
Yuck. The game is on My9 again tonight.
“They don’t make the playoffs independently of the team, but if you take all of the pitchers on a team and add up all the wins they get you see if the team is a playoff team or not…. and one pitcher that can consistently give you 18-20 of those 90+ wins you need, is an ace”
Oh, silly me. I forgot, those pitchers win those games entirely by themselves. The offense does nothing. The defense does nothing. The other pitchers involved in the game do nothing. It’s perfectly logical to assign all the credit or blame for the sum of 10-15 men’s labors to one individual. Jesus H. Christ, are people really still this stupid? I wish we could take wins, saves, batting average and RsBI and just blast them into the sun.
Sure, the old guard may never fully embrace Girardi (or anyone other than Torre), but I don’t think anyone else has a problem with him.
Damon and AJ were raving about him in that Daily News article a few days ago
MY9 games are the worst
How come SNY has full postgame coverage after all games, yet we only have them after YES games (and Red Sox FOX games)?
What is Francesa talking about? I have not heard any “rumblings” that some Yankee players don’t like Girardi. What is his sources?
==========================
His source is probably some little birdie that flew by his window.
Time to grab a drink, I feel an hour rant from him on Jobber to the pen coming up
“Come on, Wang is in the Pen until someone gets hurt, or P.Hugh has about 3 or 4 starts in a row where he gets rocked…. Get use to it”
Pretty much, Wang is in the point where he has to earn it from the BP, b/c Phil doesn’t look like he wants to give anything back, heck yesterday he rather spit in GI Joe’s hand than shke it.
If that doesn’t tell you anything IDK what will.
i don’t give a crap who likes Girardi or not. They keep winning they can burn him in effigy if they like.
Francesca made an interesting point with regard to Phil yesterday. He’s puzzled as to why Joe, who was a player, seems almost out of synch with what the players want. Phil desperately wanted to finish the game yesterday and so did his teammates….yet Joe took him out at barely over 100 pitches. I didn’t feel that strongly about it yesterday, but I thought Mike made a good point and I’m wondering if it was a mistake not to let Phil finish what he started (or at least try to). One thing I don’t agree with is this idea that there are still grumblings behind the scenes from players who “don’t love Joe”. I’ve not heard one peep from the media about this, so I don’t know who Mike’s sources are…….
Removing Chamberlain so that Wang can “stabilize” the rotation? Surely you jest.
Wang hasn’t been stable since 2007. He was just beginning to string together some good starts when he fractured his foot in Houston.
Chamberlain is a better pitcher than Wang. That’s likely not going to change from here on out unless there is an injury.
There is simply no guarantee that Wang will ever come back to pitch like he did in in 2006 and 2007.
“One of the players, I think it was Alex said they were ticked they didn’t win Sundays game with as well as CC pitched.”
Good teams are like that. I’m sure the Phillies felt that way after giving a game where Happ pitched so well on Saturday. The good ones don’t take a tough loss with them to the game the next day.
Measure that against the Jays, who saw their 9 game road trip begin with a tough 2-1 loss. 8th game of the trip is tonite and they still searching for their 1st win.
The yankees need to put together another 5-6 game winning streak.
It would not shock me if the yankees finished the road trip 6-1. I know that is pushing it but the yankees could do if #34 can get his act together.
My point was that Mike rarely credits the Yankees for getting through their injuries……and he doesn’t. He criticzes them a lot…..
“His source is probably some little birdie that flew by his window. ”
Unfortunately that birdie is no longer w/ us since it was around supper time.
Not sure where I said “Wang does everything he carries the team in all of his starts.” My only argument is a guy that pitches 200 innings with a sub-4 era in the AL East and wins 19 is an ace.
I’ll be the first one to say that a lot of stats are overrated. Nelson Cruz hit a home run in the 9th inning yesterday, his hr and rbi counts go up but it did nothing to win the game I get that, but wins are what matters, and when healthy, Wang racks them up.
fat man will be talking about moving joba to the pen in about 25 secs
Joe SD
May 26th, 2009 at 2:35 pm
They are not paying Wang $5 million to be a mop up man
- – - – - – - – -
Perhaps not, but they pay 3.75 mil for Marte who amounted to the same before being put on the DL
LOL Brandon
Mike has no sources
His ‘source’ is Jon Heyman, who always tells Mike what he likes to hear. He never disagrees with Mike about anything.
Betsy, Phil’s been kind of fragile so far. The game was in hand, there was no reason to push him. If CC or Pettitte wanted to finish their game? Sure, they’ve earned it. But Hughes had already made yesterday pretty much the best start of his career. There really wasn’t that much of a reason to leave him out there.
Dusty Baker would have let him do it, though…
lol Francessa says Burnett needs to stop worrying about pies and get outs
I agree with him
SJ44
I think you are on the right track about Wang in regard to it being more mental than anything else. He doesn’t seem to have the grit to overcome adversity as some do.
Also Hughs semmed to get some of the grit that was discussed here that he needed. Yesterday was very impressive. Seems to be taking that next step.
LOL “Burnett is busy baking pies all day”
Wang is not ready for the rotation, he isn’t consistent enough yet. They’ll keep him in the mop up role until he gets straightened out. Obviously not the best case scenario but, they panicked when Joba got hit and Bruney was still hurt
He expects Aceves to blow up in the near future?
What? Did I hear that right?
Francessa killing AJ right now.
Betsy
May 26th, 2009 at 1:51 pm
Oops…..I meant to say that Mike criticizes the Yankees FAR more than he praises them.
====
The more I listen to this parody, the more I believe he has taken the anti-Yankee stance as a strategic choice.
When Russo was there as the anti-Yankee guy, Francesa’s Yankee fandom had a Yin to its Yang. For whatever reason, he seems to have made a conscious decision to be “tough” on the Yankees.
My other thought: the reason he’s so rhapsodic about the Mets is that Francesa over rates the Red Sox more than even ESPN does. He sincerely has blinders on when it comes to Boston; why?
I believe that, first of all, he’s not a very astute baseball fan. He’s way more exposed in this regard without his comic foil by his side. Instead of Ralph Cramden and Ed Norton, we get the unabridged Francesa, indicting himself the more with each unedited opinion.
As a Yankee “fan,” he has never quite gotten over 2004, and has demonstrated zero ability to objectively analyze Boston, or the Yankees, since. It’s really embarrassing, if you’ve heard him interview Francona – talk about fawning and genuflecting.
So, in his extremely trite, polarized, microcosmic brain space: the Yankees are 0-5 vs. Mighty Boston, and the Mets, whom he previously disrespected, swiped 2 of 3 games at vaunted Fenway…
The guy is clueless, but I am convinced the anti-Yankee thing is calculated.
But can you seriously not differentiate between team wins and pitcher wins? I guess you’re one of those people who think Bartolo Colon deserved the ’05 Cy Young over Johan. Consider a pitcher’s win total is implicitly giving him full credit for the team’s effort, and that’s batsh*t crazy.
Is any manager universally loved in the clubhouse?
Seems to me that these guys play hard for Girardi, regardless of how they feel about him.
I think that Girardi will only get better, especially as the team gets younger. Maybe Girardi wasn’t the best choice given the age of the team at the time, but I think he’s great for a younger team.
LOL, Mike Francesa is tired of burnett he’s all like stop with the pies and get more outs. He’s funny x)
Burnett will step up have faith, he hasn’t been horrible could be worse.
rconn23
People seem to forget he didn’t start out 2008 so great either.
My point was that Mike rarely credits the Yankees for getting through their injuries……and he doesn’t. He criticzes them a lot…..
—————–
Folks, you gotta understand the Yankees aren’t like other teams. With their payroll, winning is the default. They’re going to get criticized for doing anything but…
As for injuries, bear in mind the perception of the Yankees is an organization that let their team get old. People EXPECT the Yanks are going to break down and have injuries, so the common reaction isn’t going to praise them for playing thru them, but to draw attention to the fact they have them.
This is just the Yankees reality. In the end, why does it matter?
Brandon,
Wang doesn’t have to earn his job back. He got hurt and he’s not yet back to full speed. When he is, he will be back in the rotation. He is not going to have to tryout to get his job back.
The Yankees screwed up in the sense that they took him off his rehab stint early because they got short in the bullpen. That put them in a spot to where he can’t get regular work right now.
At some point, he is going to have to pitch in games. Keeping him in the bullpen actually hurts the team as much as it hurts him.
He’s a starting pitcher. That’s who he is. He’s not going to stay in the bullpen because Phil Hughes had a couple of good starts.
As far as Hughes being taken out yesterday, that works both ways. If Girardi kept him in there, and his pitch count zoomed to 120 with a heavy 9th inning, or got hurt, the same folks second guessing Girardi for taking him out would be screaming at him for sending him out for the 9th in an 11-0 game.
They won the game, Hughes pitched great, and everything is fine. When that happens in NY, its time for talk radio to manufacture controversies. Its just how they roll.
“LOL “Burnett is busy baking pies all day””
I bet he wishes that AJ were baking pies, it’s miracle cream whip in can put in a towel and splashed in a face, so what is he talking about.
Jobber/Yuuse/Wang triangle
Wang can’t repeat his delivery and is still out of wack, I don’t think it has anything to do with his psyche. He needs innings, he just isn’t going to get much now. Hopefully he can get it straightened out with some side sessions and life batting practice I guess
Francessa is right
Burnett is currently the weak link on the staff. He needs to step up now .
Mike wants a 6 man rotation, with CC/AJ/Andy making starts every 5th day and platooning the other guys.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAND JOBA TO THE PEN
No Joba to the eighth inning. I knew it was coming.
“He expects Aceves to blow up in the near future?”
Don’t know what he means by blow up, but I do think the more teams see of him the more he’ll get hit. Stuff is decent, but not great. He’s more than adequate for the long relief job.
Wang may have a possible tear in his shoulder. I am not sure how true that is but it can be.
Funny thing about his ripping of Burnett….
His numbers were roughly the same at this point last year as they are this year. He took off in June and became a dominant pitcher the rest of the way.
What if the same thing happens again?
As far as the pies, championship belt, etc, its actually HELPED this team.
If Francesa was as astute about the Yankees as he thinks he is, he would realize they are MUCH more relaxed than in years past and its showing with their solid play.
Its also given the team a never say die identity and the guys look forward to whomever wins the belt on a given night.
That’s a good thing.
Its beats sitting in a dungeon babbling nonsense on talk radio for 5+ hours begging for phone calls.
Fat man has lost his mind….6 man staff….he wants Joba in the pen so bad
Jobber Jobber Jobber in da pen
This man is stupid he makes me laugh
m
Last year we heard rumblings that some players weren’t happy with Joe’s communication skills.
This year all I’ve heard is players heaping praise on him. I don’t know where Mike gets his info from. Probably as someone said the little birdie that flew by the window.
YankeeFan4Eva…. speculating or have you heard that somewhere??
Jesus Christ this guy is a fool.
Francessa “If Joba goes to the pen alla Mariano in 1996, the Yankees can win the whole thing”. Amen.
Can you guys stop embarrassing yourselves with the Francesca play by play? Of course what he says it’s calculated. He’s a performer that needs listeners, its an “act” by definition.
As message forums like this one clearly demonstrate, negativity breeds activity.
Saying a radio talk show host is going to say things to rile people up is like saying the sky is blue.
Listening to him mispronounce Phil’s last name is hysterical. LOL!
Francesa is ridiculous at the moment. No disrespect to him But Joba is staying in the rotation. Stop the nonsense of him in bullpen by all star break, makes no sense.
AJ will catch up, he’s a veteran. Don’t worry about him.
A six man rotation? Yeah, that’s always worked in the past.
Geez, does this guy even have a clue about baseball? Or, is he so desperate for phone calls, he just says whatever comes into his head?
Does Mike not realize that Phil is on an IP limit? As is Joba?
We need a healthy Wang.
His idea about having Joba, Hughes, and Wang rotate every 4th & 5th day is intriguing. Only until Wang is “back” Then he needs to join the other 3 regular starters.
Burnett had a 3.86 ERA in July and a 4.43 ERA in August. He did have a great September though.
It’s not like he was some lockdown pitcher in the 2nd half last year, he had one good month.
I don’t know what to do about Wang, but if Hughes continues to pitch as well as he has lately I can’t see taking him out of the rotation.
Wow Francesa wants Joba in the pen by All Star break and for the rest of the season.
Innings be damned.
He’s not reaching his innings limit by All Star break. Has Francesa thought about that? Guess not.
By the all star break-Jobber to the pen with Yuuuse and Wang in the rotation. I wonder if Cashman is listening and laughing?
Has Mike lost it? A six man rotation?!? The only way I would send Joba back to the bullpen is if Bruney has to be out for an extended period of time, but other than that just send Hughes down to Triple A even though that might not seem right considering the game he just had.
“Saying a radio talk show host is going to say things to rile people up is like saying the sky is blue.”
I listen to Francessa every now and then for entertainment purposes. No one goes to him for any real baseball talk. He’s a comedian. Nothing more, nothing less.
omg what does this man not understand!?!?!
mo was never a good starter! joba has 4 pitches and is a damn good starter. so using 1996 as an example is useless.
Guys,
This team does not need another starting pitcher. What this team needs is to stabilize the bullpen. I can’t believe that roughly 90% of everyone on this blog is pro-Starter for Joba. I just don’t get it.
Yeah… this team would have gone in the tank if not for Burnett throwing pies at guys.
What a bunch of non-sense. He would help the team more if he starts pitching better and stopped pieing guys than he would be if he pied guys and didn’t pitch well.
Chemistry is not above production.
So he wants to take the ball away from CC, AJ, Joba, and Pettitte an extra day a week to have a six man rotation on top of the fact that pitchers are creatures of habit……brilliant.
Who is “Yuuuse”?
Is he referring to Hughes?
The last time phil hughes pitches 8 innings was last year when he went head to head with AJ.
“I don’t know what to do about Wang, but if Hughes continues to pitch as well as he has lately I can’t see taking him out of the rotation.”
The effort on Baltimore was far from a masterpiece. Yesterday was one, but he’ll need a few more of those to lock in a spot, I would think.
Jon Ringland – 90% of this blog is pro-starter because they aren’t fantastically short-sighted.
vtred May 26th, 2009 at 3:01 pm
Who is “Yuuuse”?
Is he referring to Hughes?
==========================
That’s how he pronounces Hughes. Franceser has his own language
Did Francessa just say that if needed they could use Bret Tomko as the 5th starter if you have Joba in the pen???
I think Mike Francessa Wants Brett Tomko as the #5 starter of this team if Wang isn’t ready to start…. Really?… Really? did he say that out loud?
AJ would help us a hell of a lot more if he started pitching well rather than being this clubhouse clown
Kevin S,
How is having Joba in the pen short sighted? Do you know of anyone else on this team or in this organization that you would want closing games if Mo went down? Joba is the only guy with closer stuff. Im not saying he won’t be a successfull starting pitcher, but we have 300 million dollars invested in our starting pitching. Whats the point of a starter giving you 7 great innings if you cant hold the lead?
Aceves doesn’t have impressive stuff… I can see him getting hit around if he is overexposed. He is not a setup man.
This has made me laugh out loud!
Why are so many of us listening to this so called fat-man, anyway?
Really … he opins just like everyone.
The major diff is he gets paid huge bucks.
Like in very big.
Steve B-
If you are referring to the first Baltimore game Hughes pitched, you are right. But he’s really only had one bad game and one below average, the rest have been average to well above average.
And his last two games have been very good.
Chemistry isn’t above production. But, chemistry does make production more tenable because guys have a better sense of team instead of themselves.
The only people who don’t believe in good chemistry are those who have never been in a locker room.
Now, before people say, “Late 70′s Yankees”, that team had GREAT chemistry inside the white lines. Those guys played hard for each other. Yes, even the guys that hated each other personally.
This team, pies or not, has great chemistry. That’s a good thing and its showing in their performances.
For too long, this franchise was a joyless place, both on and off the field. Now, it isn’t. Why can’t folks be happy about that? Its a big reason why they have overcome all the injuries they have suffered so far this year.
“I can’t believe that roughly 90% of everyone on this blog is pro-Starter for Joba. I just don’t get it.”
Jon, it is a waste of resources to put a guy who has 4 good pitches into the bullpen, where he’d only use two of them. That just isn’t good baseball sense. Starters are more valuable than relievers. Relievers are easier to come by. Guys with 4 good, effective pitches don’t grow on trees. Joba should be a starter.
This guy NEEDS a partner fast. Max Kellerman would help him tremendously.
But WFAN won’t do it since it’s a Mets station.
“Aceves doesn’t have impressive stuff… I can see him getting hit around if he is overexposed. He is not a setup man.”
Agreed.
Wang’s value comes not just in his ERA and dominance, but in the number of innings that he can give us. He may allow 4 or 5 runs in a game, but he’s almost always going to give you 7-8 innings.
We can’t say the same for Phil or Joba (Or even Burnett).
When he’s healthy, even if his ERA will be higher than Phil’s, he’ll probably take his spot. We just can’t have two pitchers back-to-back that will give us 5 innings a night.
Miked up, he’s ready to go, on the fan, new york sports radiooooooooo, miked up, miked up
God is this guy a fool or what !
I wasn’t listening but I bet Mike didn’t recant his statement about the Mets going into Fenway. He said the Mets didn’t stand a chance because the RS “just don’t lose at home”. I’m sure he didn’t mention that.
“Jon, it is a waste of resources to put a guy who has 4 good pitches into the bullpen, where he’d only use two of them. That just isn’t good baseball sense. Starters are more valuable than relievers. Relievers are easier to come by. Guys with 4 good, effective pitches don’t grow on trees. Joba should be a starter.”
If relievers are so easy to come by, why is the bullpen our Achillies Heel?
While Francessa may have gone about it the wrong way, he did have a point.
The bullpen is awful. We have no idea what to expect from Bruney and who knows if he can stay healthy. Melancon and Robertson are not the saviors.
Cashman better have a solution to fix the pen.
“This has made me laugh out loud!
Why are so many of us listening to this so called fat-man, anyway? ”
You answered your own question. He’s funny. The stuff he comes up with is so bad that its funny.
DB,
No, Fran said CC/AJ/Andy pitch every 5 days.
Look, we all know that Joba is a starter. We all want a healthy Wang because the pitcher with the best record over the last 2.5 years he pitched as your #2 or #3 is mind-blowing.
But don’t dismiss every scenario as ludicrous. Be assured that the Yankees are going through every permutation because that’s their job.
What we want and feel is the only and correct way may not be what happens because stuff happens. Like Wang completely loses it. Bruney is not pitching for a while, probably longer. Marte has disappeared from our conscience. And Hughes is making the decisions hard, which is exactly what Girardi and Cash want.
John Ringold,
8th inning and 9th inning are two totaly different things….you don’t put a dominant starter in the bullpen. It’s laughable. You could make him a closer sure, but that’s not what this debate is about
“How is having Joba in the pen short sighted? Do you know of anyone else on this team or in this organization that you would want closing games if Mo went down? Joba is the only guy with closer stuff. Im not saying he won’t be a successfull starting pitcher, but we have 300 million dollars invested in our starting pitching. Whats the point of a starter giving you 7 great innings if you cant hold the lead?”
Good lord. 200>70. What good does it do to have an awesome closer if the pitching can’t get him a lead? Joba’s got more than just “closer stuff”… he’s got “starter stuff.” You know, a full repertoire, instead of just one plus pitch.
This guy NEEDS a partner fast. Max Kellerman would help him tremendously.
But WFAN won’t do it since it’s a Mets station.
==============================================
Max + Francesa would be ratings gold. Within 20 minutes, 1 will try to make a move to kill the other
DB – (officially panicked 5/13/09)
May 26th, 2009 at 2:54 pm
Wang can’t repeat his delivery and is still out of wack, I don’t think it has anything to do with his psyche. He needs innings, he just isn’t going to get much now. Hopefully he can get it straightened out with some side sessions and life batting practice I guess.
=========
If it has anything at all to do with his psyche, no one here has a door into is subconscious, so there’s no way to verify this and no way to make a case for it.
Therefore, as an analytical theory, it is disqualified.
Next.
Is it even a given that Wang figures it out?
Seriously, this is just comical. Just listen and laugh.
“You could make him a closer sure, but that’s not what this debate is about”
Thats the point though. You groom him to become a closer by letting him set up and patch a gaping hole in the bullpen. When Mo exits, you let Joba close. Whatever, im clearly in the minority on this one, but im stubborn in my ways
“If relievers are so easy to come by, why is the bullpen our Achillies Heel?”
Bullpens can run hot and cold from season to season. Look at TB. Their bullpen last year did the job. This year, not so much. Lidge is another one. He was unbeatable last season. Now, I wish he would pitch the 9th for every team that we play. Our bullpen was decent last year. This year, they are inconsistent. That doesn’t change the fact that Joba adds more value to us as a starter than in the pen.
7*7
May 26th, 2009 at 3:08 pm
. Melancon and Robertson are not the saviors.
Cashman better have a solution to fix the pen.
======
Can you please explain what you mean when you say Melancon and Robertson are not the saviors.
Thank you in advance.
Why would any intelligent adult suggestion Burnett’s pies and his performance were at all related?
One has nothing to do with other. I’d suggest it’s a calculated cheap, easy, irrelevant thing tot say, but I fear those who espouse it probably actually believe it.
Why put Joba in the pen when you can give Robertson and or Melancon another shot? Or even make a trade.
A kid like Kontos who is pitching well in AAA could be converted. And even Garcia who is never healthy could eventually end up in the pen.
But of course Francesa has never heard of those guys before.
AJ has to pitch better (though I don’t think he’s been as bad as folks make him out to be), but I don’t see any reason why he should stop the pie thing. How is not throwing a pie after a walk-off going to help him on the mound? It doesn’t hurt or help him, it’s just a fun thing to do after the Yanks have a big win. If people want to be sticks in the mud, let them.
So, CC, Andy, and AJ pitch every 5th day and you mix and match Joba, Hughes, and Wang for two spots? It’s not going to work, every 10 days you will have a starter with 8 days off. That’s not fair to any of those three. It’s thinking outside the box though
Um, I certainly seem to remember some large starting woes in recent years…
Does anyone trust Aceves, Coke, Tomko, and Veras to carry the pen the entire year?
As it is, Coke and Aceves seem to have durability concernsand are unavailable like every other day.
If not Joba, there needs to be another solution to fixing the pen.
“If relievers are so easy to come by, why is the bullpen our Achillies Heel?”
Listen fool, would you put Johan Santana in the BP, would you put CC Sabathia, would you stick Roy Holladay or Josh Beckett …if the answer is no why would you do that w/ Joba ! The Rays had a SU man named Balfour and he sucked and still closed up the 8th inning. Whaty sense are you making taking the best shut down arm and limiting him to 1 inning ?
The first phone caller agreed with him…lmao!
“Good lord. 200>70. What good does it do to have an awesome closer if the pitching can’t get him a lead? Joba’s got more than just “closer stuff”… he’s got “starter stuff.” You know, a full repertoire, instead of just one plus pitch.”
Agree to disagree, brother. 200 is greater than 70, but this team is NOT at a loss for quality starting pitching. Sabathia, Burnett, Pettite, Wang and Hughes is a phenomenal starting 5. Are you seriously saying that this pitching staff can’t get the ball to a closer on a consistent long term basis? If Mo went down tonight, Kevin, for 2 weeks, what would you do?
Out of curiousity, how many leads from the 8th inning on have the Yankees blown?
Anyone?
Wow, so Mike is tired of AJ. He never liked him and I figure if the guy pitches lights out from here on out, he never will. I just hope he doesn’t do what he normally does with players he kills – get him on for an interview and then kiss his behind. It’s pathetic when he does that.
If Cashman felt Melancon was the answer, he would be up here now and not Brett Tomko.
Most people don’t take into account the routines that starters set up for themselves. When a guy pitches in a rotation he has an exact routine he goes through on every single off day. You don’t mess that up, period. That leads to injury and ineffectiveness. Sure, there are exceptions. But, they are a rare breed. Guys who can bounce from bullpen to starting, ala Wakefield
Someone please call in and mention this name: Huston Street
End of Joba debate.
The problem with the veal francesa is that he doesn’t follow the minor leagues like the most of us do. For the majority we all knew he was a starter, but francesa saw him come up and dominate the 8th inning, and he thinks its the greatest thing since sliced bread.
The bullpen is “awful” for 2 reasons:
1. Wang falling apart early messed up the entire pen for weeks because they got overworked too early in the season.
2. Bruney and Marte, their two top setup guys, got hurt. That hurts ANY bullpen.
The bullpen hasn’t been “awful” for several weeks now.
Why? The starters are going deeper into the games more consistently. Thus limiting bullpen work.
Aceves has been a great addition to the pen. His stuff “isn’t good”? Do you know anything about stuff?
He throws two fastballs, both in the low 90′s, with great movement. He has command of all of his pitches. He knows how to pitch. All of those factors make him a good pitcher.
Its not just about throwing 98 MPH. The guy is a very solid pitcher. He pitched well for the Yankees last year. Frankly, he should have made the team out of ST.
If you look at the pen now, you have Robertson, Aceves and Coke. three guys capable of going more than one inning. For now at least, Wang is in there as well.
Given their starters have the ability to go 6-7 every night, they can get by with this bullpen for right now.
Certainly, its good enough to keep Joba in the rotation. Hell, Joba has been their second best starter this season. You don’t pull your second best starter out of the rotation to add to your bullpen.
“If relievers are so easy to come by, why is the bullpen our Achillies Heel?”
He didn’t say ‘easy’, he said ‘easier’. Unless you think CC/Santana/Clemens/Pedro type aces grow on trees.
If I could have Santana or K-Rod, I’m taking Santana.
Joba as starter has the potential to be as good as, if not better, than Santana. Joba as reliever has the potential to be as good as, if not better, than K-Rod.
I’ll take the starter, thankyouverymuch.
“If Mo went down tonight, Kevin, for 2 weeks, what would you do?”
Did Mo go down no he hasn’t, if Jeter and Arod go down then what ? you see how stupid you sound right now.
“Listen fool, would you put Johan Santana in the BP, would you put CC Sabathia, would you stick Roy Holladay or Josh Beckett”
No i wouldnt, but if you’re saying Joba is the caliber starter of Johan, CC, Doc and Beckett, you’re the fool.
Just put swisher in the bullpen
Mike doesn’t hate Burnett. He said all Spring that if he stayed healthy, he would be a star here (and the ladies would love him).
He has the worst ERA on the staff and has like a 7 ERA over the past 6 starts. He isin’t carrying his weight at the moment, nothing wrong with pointing it out.
DB,
Are you not listening to Fran? b/c he ended with “Joba to the bullpen by ASB” The problem with his scenario is that Joba needs innings which he won’t get in the bullpen and Phil will reach IP limits if he stays in the rotation for the rest of the season.
I think the best way to approach this is keep Joba in the rotation because if he, CC, and the rest of the pitchers pitches to their abilities, the bullpen won’t kill us.
“How is not throwing a pie after a walk-off going to help him on the mound? It doesn’t hurt or help him, it’s just a fun thing to do after the Yanks have a big win. If people want to be sticks in the mud, let them.”
Betsy, trust me – if the team had a problem with AJ’s pies, they would have put an end to them by now. There is nothing wrong with AJ pieing guys after walk-offs. That being said, AJ does have to pitch better. Going this long w/o a win is not a good thing for any pitcher or team.
If A-Rod or Jeter goes down, we have Berroa and Pena.
OMG of course what ever reliever you get “won’t be as good as Joba”. Relievers are just failed starters. That’s why most stink.
Joba has yet to fail as a starter. This guy is clueless. You put Sabathia in the 8th inning, he’s going to be the best set up guy in baseball. Because he’s a starter.
“That being said, AJ does have to pitch better. Going this long w/o a win is not a good thing for any pitcher or team.”
Bingo, Laura.
More proof that he doesn’t know what he’s talking about. He thinks that the Yankees would trade Austin Jackson for a pitcher. Ugh!
Not foolish at all to think Joba’s got that ceiling. Because, you know, he does. Dude’s, what, twenty-three this year? And already as good as he is? He’s just going to keep getting better.
“No i wouldnt, but if you’re saying Joba is the caliber starter of Johan, CC, Doc and Beckett, you’re the fool.”
No sir you are b/c he actually is !
Wave:
I meant the O’s game at the Stadium. He was good, not special that night. 3 runs in 5 innings isn’t special even if he fanned 9. Only fanned 6 yesterday and was much better doing it. He’s had 2 very good starts, one brutal one and three pretty ordinary efforts (14 IP, 9 ER is an ERA around 6). I don’t expect him to be consistent at his age, but I think he has to be to take Wang’s job for good.
“Agree to disagree, brother. 200 is greater than 70, but this team is NOT at a loss for quality starting pitching. Sabathia, Burnett, Pettite, Wang and Hughes is a phenomenal starting 5. Are you seriously saying that this pitching staff can’t get the ball to a closer on a consistent long term basis? If Mo went down tonight, Kevin, for 2 weeks, what would you do?”
:snort: This team isn’t at a loss for quality bats, either. I guess we should turn Cano into a pinch hitter and let Pena take 2B.
Pettitte’s gone after this year… then what? What’s your rotation in 2010? 2011? 2012?
Mike says he is not defining the long term, but the short term. Congrats Mike as you might push me into becoming an alcoholic by the end of the day.
Joba to the pen is an outrageous suggestion
However, if anyone thinks the pen, as currently constructed, is good enough, they are delusional.
Cashman gets paid big bucks. He has to be diligent and find another solution to fix it NOT involving Joba.
“Did Mo go down no he hasn’t, if Jeter and Arod go down then what ? you see how stupid you sound right now”
Still didn’t answer the question…
Exactly Brandon. AJ’s using his Easy Bake oven between innings when he starts – he’s clearly not concentrating on pitching, lol. How about AJ be sent to the corner with a dunce cap on as punishment for struggling (and Mike might want to look at his individual starts before killing the guy). What would he like the guy to do? Mope around? By the way, Mo was the one who encouraged a dejected AJ to do his pie routine on Friday night…..so, maybe Mike should kill Mo. It’s pretty obvious that AJ is very well liked in the clubhouse – should the players all surround him and stick their tongues out at him to make him feel bad? Should Tex have had the same punishment doled out to him?
HUSTON STREET – he’s going to be the best young reliever available. Mike would say no to him? BS.
LOL.
You guys are eating out of Francessa’s hands. He makes a boneheaded suggestion and it has garnered like 100 responses on this blog in the last 10 minutes and probably 200 calls.
This is why he is so successful and has the highest rated sports radio show in the country. He knows how to get his listeners.
This is just to tickle Francesa’s fancy, see all he sees is 100 MPH out of the BP the other day he put the Dodgers pen on a pedestal and asked why is it that the Yankees don’t have RP like that, you know guys that hit triple digits on the gun..that’s all he cares about !
Well Jon, if the Yanks’ top three relievers all wound up on the DL, they’d be pretty well effed over, right? Hardly a contingency you move an ace-caliber starter to the pen for.
“No i wouldnt, but if you’re saying Joba is the caliber starter of Johan, CC, Doc and Beckett, you’re the fool.”
We don’t know yet just how good Joba will be. But the potential is there for him to be one of the greats. You can’t waste that potential in the bullpen.
Jon Ringland
May 26th, 2009 at 3:13 pm
Agree to disagree, brother. 200 is greater than 70, but this team is NOT at a loss for quality starting pitching. Sabathia, Burnett, Pettite, Wang and Hughes is a phenomenal starting 5. Are you seriously saying that this pitching staff can’t get the ball to a closer on a consistent long term basis? If Mo went down tonight, Kevin, for 2 weeks, what would you do?
—————————————————————-
Sabathia, Burnett, Pettitte, Wang & Hughes is a nice looking starting 5.
What happens when 1, 2 or 3 get hurt?
What happens if this is Pettitte’s last year?
What happens when Hughes has a couple of bad outings and everyone is clamoring for him to go work it out in AAA?
What happens if it takes a little longer for Wang to get his groove back?
Answer: You can never have enough starting pitching. Period.
AJ’s pies have nothing to do with his pitching. Its two entirely different issues.
He has to pitch better. No doubt about that. However, having him stop doing something the TEAM likes has no correlation to him pitching better.
One has nothing to do with the other.
“No i wouldnt, but if you’re saying Joba is the caliber starter of Johan, CC, Doc and Beckett, you’re the fool.”
Joba has a 3.12 ERA in his first 20 career starts.
That’s beyond extraordinary.
“You guys are eating out of Francessa’s hands. He makes a boneheaded suggestion and it has garnered like 100 responses on this blog in the last 10 minutes and probably 200 calls.”
And what’s wrong with that? We are Yankee fans discussing Yankee business before the game starts. Isn’t that what this blog is for?
“Still didn’t answer the question…”
B/c it’s a scenerio that has not happened, most likely Mo goes down Melancon is getting pushed to the majors, they will not kill Joba’s progress as a SP which is worth more than a CL.
The Yankees aren’t trading Ajax for a pitcher. If George was the George of old yeah maybe. Since he was willing to deal prospects like it was nothing.
Cashman ain’t that stupid.
Like I said he needs Max Kellerman. He can’t do this show on his own much longer.
When a guy has a 5.32 ERA, hasn’t won a game in over a month and has a 7 ERA in that timespan, and is pieing guys and acting like a goofball…. it looks bad.
Especially for a team like the Yankees that is all about winning and image and such.
Francesa should e-mail his plan regarding Yuuse/Jobber/Wang to Cashman. Cashman needs a giggle every now and then
The Yanks have lost ONE game because of a failure of the bullpen in the 8th inning, the game in KC that Veras and Coke blew. Mo has burned them more than their 8th inning. The Yanks ineffectiveness has mattered more in games they have been losing already. Joba to the bullpen is just not a good idea.
btw, while Joba was dominating in the bullpen last year, do you want to know their record?
Brandon “Phil Hughes does not shake hands after 8 IP ”
May 26th, 2009 at 3:17 pm
“No i wouldnt, but if you’re saying Joba is the caliber starter of Johan, CC, Doc and Beckett, you’re the fool.”
======
No sir you are b/c he actually is !
======
x100.
You think Joba isn’t in that sentence, you need a new hobby. Sorry, not sure who the original poster was. This thing is tedious to navigate w/out the “reply” option.
I don’t understand the anxiety over the bullpen and the rotation.
Since ARod came back the Yanks are 13-4. Posada will be back soon, which is even better. Sure, the pen could do better but if you obsess about it you miss the forest for the trees.
Joba to the pen talk makes no sense right now. Until Wang shows he is ready to start effectively, we don’t have 5 starters without him.
Joba needs to pitch 7 innings tonight period. I will bet any amount of money that if joba and hughes have the same number of starts, hughes will have pitched late into games more than joba.
The pen is our weak spot because two of the guys that were supposed to anchor the pen are on the DL (Bruney and yes, Marte). With better starting pitching, the pen has been better as well – amazing what happens when they’re rested up.
Lets not have the Joba/pen argument again, it’s just silly at this point
I sense a lot of tension on the Joba subject folks. I wasnt trying to ruffle any feather. All im saying is that when our starters leave after 7 innings with a 1 run lead, we’re all biting our nails wondering who will get the ball to Mo. Furthermore when Mo retires, there will be no Mo to go to. So what do we do, throw truckloads of money at the best possible reliever on the market or do we cultivate from within? Clearly no one agrees with me, and thats fine. I guess im one of the “blockheads” that Pete blogs about
Joba is a starter until he proves he can’t.. so get over it… if you don’t like too bad
“No i wouldnt, but if you’re saying Joba is the caliber starter of Johan, CC, Doc and Beckett, you’re the fool”
Not sure Beckett should be lumped in with those front three names. Joba is not in the Johan, Halladay, Sabathia class…yet. Could well get there one day, but he’s not now. Probably more in the Gallardo, Cueto class of guys who are his age with ridiculous upside and already beginning to enjoy significant success.
AS LONG AS THE STUPID FRANCESCA UPDATES KEEP COMING I WILL CONTINUE TO TYPE IN CAPS…WHICH IS MORE ANNOYING? I DONT KNOW!?!?
“If Cashman felt Melancon was the answer, he would be up here now and not Brett Tomko.”
Melancon is about a million times more of an answer than Brett Tomko, and soon enough, Melancon will replace Brett Tomko. No one is saying Melancon is “THE” answer, however, but he will be one of many potential “answers” out of the ‘pen (along with Aceves, D-Rob and maybe another youngster who gets hot between Trenton and Scranton) once he gets back in a groove at Scranton and gets recalled again. Hopefully that happens before they try to go to the Edwar/Albaladejo well again, which I assume will still be running bone dry.
“Joba needs to pitch 7 innings tonight period. I will bet any amount of money that if joba and hughes have the same number of starts, hughes will have pitched late into games more than joba.”
Yeah, huh? Hughes averaged less than 5 IP per start heading into yesterday.
Sorry m, no I’m not listening to that idiot. (guessing you meant francesa) I was responding to a comment/discussion on a 6 man rotation.
“Clearly no one agrees with me, and thats fine. I guess im one of the “blockheads” that Pete blogs about”
Jon, just because your opinion differs from most of ours doesn’t make you a blockhead. It just makes you different. And isn’t that what’s so great about this country? Different people with different opinions.
But seriously, dude. Joba needs to be a starter.
“Melancon is about a million times more of an answer than Brett Tomko”
Agreed. Im more of an answer than Brett Tomko.
Betsy
May 26th, 2009 at 3:18 pm
Exactly Brandon. AJ’s using his Easy Bake oven between innings when he starts – he’s clearly not concentrating on pitching, lol.
=========================
LMAO. As long as he’s making it from scratch. Can’t you just see him kneading the pie dough. w/flour all over the place. Hey, maybe he’s taken to sprinkling it in his glove, causing his FB to drift back over the plate.
Anyone think Girardi pulled Hughes after 8 to keep him hungry…in other words, if he went the full 9 for the shutout, he has nowhere to go but down in his next start. It’s sort of like feeding a lion beef stew meat, and putting a porterhouse right outside his cage…he’ll eat that stew meat, but wonder what he needs to do next time to get the steak.
A young guy like Hughes needs a little bit of anger and edge anyway.
Anyone know what the best place to get the game online is? Should I pay for the MLBTV or is there a free site? Thanks!
The search for a Francesa WFAN sidekick is taking longer than anticipated.
They need to find someone dumber than Mike – to make him look brilliant. It’s not easy.
I suggested they use the Lohud Yankee game threads.
Steve B:
I love joba, I just feel that once phil gets comfortable he can go deeper than joba because they are two different type of pitchers.
Okay, first of all, I don’t think they should still be playing “God Bless America”. Who cares if they play the edited version? And he’s not even a Yankee fan!! Get this guy off the air!!
Best Scene From The Weekend: Papelbon crying like a little girl after a Boston runner was (correctly) called out on a force play at second.
This guy has truly weak character. Just sit down and take your blown save like a man, freak show.
Lauren,
MLBTV has improved 10 fold in the last few years. HOWEVER, if you live in the NY/NJ area and you’re trying to watch the game online, forget it, they black it out. I used to buy it to watch games at the office when I work late, and this year they began blocking them out bc i work in NJ. Other than that, its really great. They added HD this year, which is clutch.
“The search for a Francesa WFAN sidekick is taking longer than anticipated.
They need to find someone dumber than Mike – to make him look brilliant. It’s not easy. ”
I thought Kim Jones did a nice job when she was subbing.
Thanks Jon,
I actually moved to North Carolina, so they do not offer the YES Network back here. I think I will be going with the MLBTV package!
It seems that 90 percent of the people on this blog rip Francesa – and rightly so – and yet those same people devoutly tune into him every day.
Want to stop hearing Joba to the pen nonsense, pining for a mediocre pitcher like Bronson Arroyo and all the other drivel that comes out of Francesa’s mouth? Don’t listen.
Sports talk call-in shows are, by in large, just a cacophony of moronic nonsense. A bunch of stupid trade proposals, “Michael Bowden for Albert Pujols” – followed by “Player A is a choker” followed by the hopes of prying away another team’s player that’s probably either hitting .230 or has a 5.00 ERA because that player somehow is a “gamer” or “winner”.
Francesca’s show is no different than any other garbage sports call-in show in any other city in America, whether it’s Chicago, Boston, Atlanta or Miami.
Just because it emanates from New York City doesn’t mean it’s any better.
Lauren,
If you’re in NC, go for it. its a little pricey but well worth it IMO
Doctor Mike says he would suspect Brian is done for the season because he is going to see DR. Andrews. I guess he doesn’t know that Brian requested an appointment with him to try and figure out what is wrong. The Yankees didn’t send him there. You’d think a huge Yankee fan who does a 6 hour show daily would find that out.
“I actually moved to North Carolina, so they do not offer the YES Network back here. I think I will be going with the MLBTV package!”
Does your cable service offer the MLB Extra Innings package? That way, you could watch the game on TV. The crappy part about that is that you don’t get the pre-game or post-game stuff, but you don’t get that on MLBTV either.
“Best Scene From The Weekend: Papelbon crying like a little girl after a Boston runner was (correctly) called out on a force play at second. ”
I can’t think of a Red Sock I loath more than Papelbon. The whole “I should close the all-star game” fiasco was the last straw for me. What a clown.
Jon,
Its well worth it then, since I am only getting it on a monthly basis for now. Thanks for your help!
DT,
We should have a contest to find Francesa’s partner from the LoHud Game Threads.
Each night for a week, we should nominate one poster from the game threads for that job and debate it over the course of one of the day’s threads.
After a week, we vote for a “winner”. We can have Pete submit his name to Francesa for consideration.
Think about it….
This would eliminate the imposters from the game threads because they will be dying to show off their stupidity in an effort to work along side the “Great One”, and I don’t mean Wayne Gretzky.
It could be a win, win for everybody.
DT May 26th, 2009 at 3:30 pm
The search for a Francesa WFAN sidekick is taking longer than anticipated.
*They need to find someone dumber than Mike – to make him look brilliant. It’s not easy*.
I suggested they use the Lohud Yankee game threads.
====================================
I nominate that dude “DonnieBaseball”.
Yeah Jon, they blocked them out last year too.
Have you swayed from your Joba stance yet?
Laura,
Do you like the Extra Innings package? I dumped mine this weekend and gave comcast an earful in the process. No HD (even though they advertise as such), no pre/post like you said, and its REALLY expensive.
“Want to stop hearing Joba to the pen nonsense, pining for a mediocre pitcher like Bronson Arroyo and all the other drivel that comes out of Francesa’s mouth? Don’t listen.”
If we don’t listen to it, how can we laugh at it?
It will be very entertaining to see and hear all of The Nation turn their collective hatred on Papelbon as soon as he signs with another team. He is such a joker that it’s inevitable that all the Sawks fans will say how they just “tolerated” him for all those years while he was getting saves, but deep down they didn’t like his antics and his over-reactions but were just rooting for the front of the jersey not the back, and so on and so forth.
“You think Joba isn’t in that sentence, you need a new hobby.”
He not there yet, Bodd. When he starts regularly authoring 200 IP seasons with 20+ quality starts, then he’s there. He can get there, but he’s not there now.
Folks, wake up. It’s Francesca’s job to be controversial. People wouldn’t listen in if all he did was spout conventional points of view.
It’s a tad amazing that people actually care about what he says and get worked up about it. Then again, that’s exactly what he wants to see.
DB,
I’ll consider swaying from my Joba in the pen stance if they choose me as the 8th inning guy
I promise i wouldnt let Yankees Universe down…
Regular season/Pupa/Hibernating Beckett’s sporting a ERA of 5 (ERA+ of 98) so far this season; I don’t see how he can be mentioned with the likes of Halladay/Santana/Sabathia at this time.
“Do you like the Extra Innings package? I dumped mine this weekend and gave comcast an earful in the process. No HD (even though they advertise as such), no pre/post like you said, and its REALLY expensive.”
Mine has one HD channel, but they rotate which team they show on the HD channel. They tend to favor the big market teams on the HD channel so I’ve seen the Yankees in HD a few times this year already. Yes, it is VERY expensive, but I have a 56″ TV and watching the game on that is better than watching it on my PC.
omg something is wrong I actually agree with Mike right now.
Here we go. Caller not fond of Posada
Been gone for awhile and I come back to the same ridiculousness about Joba in the pen. WILL IT EVER STOP?!?!?!?!
Shout out to the regulars. Hope all is well.
“Anyone think Girardi pulled Hughes after 8 to keep him hungry…in other words, if he went the full 9 for the shutout, he has nowhere to go but down in his next start. It’s sort of like feeding a lion beef stew meat, and putting a porterhouse right outside his cage…he’ll eat that stew meat, but wonder what he needs to do next time to get the steak.
A young guy like Hughes needs a little bit of anger and edge anyway.”
I think a bit to make him hungry and a bit to test what he’s made of. He took that ball from him 3 outs away from CG SO one of the league’s most dangerous offense to see what his reaction would be, do you want it that bad or not ?
BTW who is this tool saying Nady is a better hitter than Posada…And like Nady can field his position any better
I get Extra Innings via DirecTV, and over 80% of the games are in HD. I haven’t experienced a Yankees game yet that wasn’t in HD.
“No i wouldnt, but if you’re saying Joba is the caliber starter of Johan, CC, Doc and Beckett, you’re the fool.”
I hope my formatting is ok, but…. through their first 20 career starts:
Player G IP ERA WHIP SO/9 BB/9 Runs SO BB Hits
Joba 20 106.67 3.12 1.388 9.7 3.9 37 115 46 102
Santana 20 103.33 5.31 1.500 9.1 4.4 61 105 51 104
CC 20 106.00 4.16 1.396 7.7 4.9 49 91 58 90
Halladay 20 118.33 3.73 1.538 5.6 4.5 49 74 59 123
Beckett 20 109.67 3.69 1.240 9.4 4.1 45 114 50 86
Joba is the best of the 5.
It must be goofball hour on WFAN. This Carl guy is way out there.
Contrived controversy is boring radio. NY is a good enough sports town to not have to do that and have a good show.
Unfortunately, since Russo left, his show fell off the cliff. Its impossible for anybody, let alone Francesa, to carry a 5+ hour show alone. It simply can’t be done.
His ego won’t allow for a partner, let alone a strong personality as a partner.
So, he’s left to warble on about stupid subjects and is the punchline for blogs all over the internet.
Its all about ego with Mike. His show would be better, and he would be better, if he didn’t insist on working alone.
Since that isn’t the case, when he talks stupidity, as in his some of his topics today, folks are going to call him on it and joke about it.
rconn23
May 26th, 2009 at 3:34 pm
It seems that 90 percent of the people on this blog rip Francesa – and rightly so – and yet those same people devoutly tune into him every day.
Want to stop hearing Joba to the pen nonsense, pining for a mediocre pitcher like Bronson Arroyo and all the other drivel that comes out of Francesa’s mouth? Don’t listen.
Sports talk call-in shows are, by in large, just a cacophony of moronic nonsense. A bunch of stupid trade proposals, “Michael Bowden for Albert Pujols” – followed by “Player A is a choker” followed by the hopes of prying away another team’s player that’s probably either hitting .230 or has a 5.00 ERA because that player somehow is a “gamer” or “winner”.
Francesca’s show is no different than any other garbage sports call-in show in any other city in America, whether it’s Chicago, Boston, Atlanta or Miami.
=====
Of course, you’re right on all counts, but you have under valued the power of the idiotic.
I tune in to Francesa – for as long as he’s talking baseball, and then I shut him off – because I am fascinated by his level of hubris and stupidity. Now the fascination gives way to lethargy fairly quickly and I turn him off.
You might also be undervalue-ing the sometime necessity of debunking what passes for truth among the lowest common denominator fan-type.
I also check in w/his show, and Kay’s, to see if they have any guest on I’m interested in, or any information.
LOL. We’re all frustrated that AJ hasn’t gotten a win in a looong time. But are you guys seriously creating clubhouse drama?
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....yerId=4153
Take a look. 2 wins (2 ER in each). 2 losses (5 ER in each). The rest are no decisions. Earned runs given up in his no decisions: 3, 8, 4, 3, 2. I don’t think the players are frustrated with AJ. But he should be frustrated with them. He’s pitched well enough to have more than 2 wins.
This guy is a huge Red Sox fan
delusions of grandeur….now it all makes sense
Pettite in the bullpen. LMAO!!!
Carl wants Andy in the bullpen?
“put pettitte in the bullpen” – Hilarious
Test
paps should get a suspension for jumping on the field after the call at 2nd.
Either a Red Sox fan or that is my senile grandpa.
Ew, my formatting broke.
Player G IP ERA WHIP SO/9 BB/9 Runs SO BB Hits
Joba 20 106.2 3.122 1.3875 9.7 3.9 37 115 46 102
Santana 20 103.1 5.313 1.5 9.1 4.4 61 105 51 104
CC 20 106 4.16 1.396 7.7 4.9 49 91 58 90
Halladay 20 118.1 3.727 1.538 5.6 4.5 49 74 59 123
Beckett 20 109.2 3.693 1.24 9.4 4.1 45 114 50 86
Lauren – you want to go to http://www.myp2p.eu
From there click on “software” on that page scroll down and look under “clients” and download “sopcast” …. you’ll have to extract the zip files and it will open up. Back on the myp2p site on the top you’ll see “Live Sports.” Scroll down and find the game you want, there will usually be a few links, just click on the one that says “sopcast” and you’ll be able to watch it
I think the site is eating my comment so I’m sorry if this is here two, three, four times…. but it’s a free way for Lauren and others to watch the games so it’s worth it to keep trying!! This post will probably pop up 6 times now so I’m sorry again!!
WHIP is an excellent measurement for a pitcher complimenting the ERA.
The WHIP for Aceves is 0.955 and his ERA is 1.84.
Both are excellent achievements. EXCELLENT.
So, he must have good stuff.
No?
AJ came here to win a championship. I’m not too sure he cares more about his record than the yanks overall record.
That call with Carl took forever
Lauren – I have NO idea what is going on, I have a way for you to watch the games for free online written out, but it won’t post, I’ve tried like 7 times lol…. I’ll keep trying but don’t buy mlb.tv yet!!
Actually, we can do much better than WHIP. K/9, BB/9, GB/FB%… and you want two of those to be “good,” ideally.
Frank, I agree….his slider looks pretty wicked to me. Plus he can get it over for strikes. I’m digging the Mexican Gangsta
“Pettite in the bullpen”
*spits at radio*
Hey, the Yanks need a lefty out there they can rely on!
Carlmania!
DB,
That’s not my point. People here are saying that the players might be getting frustrated with AJ for not getting a win in over a month? My point is that he’s pitched well enough to get the win, so I doubt the guys are frustrated with him.
Steve B
May 26th, 2009 at 3:37 pm
“You think Joba isn’t in that sentence, you need a new hobby.”
He not there yet, Bodd. When he starts regularly authoring 200 IP seasons with 20+ quality starts, then he’s there. He can get there, but he’s not there now.
====================
My crystal ball says, barring injury, he’s going to be there. What else could stop him? Some assumptions are based on the evidential. If you want to be literal about it, sure, we will have to wait and see.
Not long ago, I was watching the replay of Abbott’s no-no. Manny Ramirez was clean shaven and all limbs in his rookie season and first appearance at Yankee Stadium. The announcers were giving their scouting report on the kid – it all, of course, came true.
Some things don’t leave much to the imagination, like Joba’s slider and his FB velocity.
But technically, you are correct.
Lauren – I think the site I’m trying to post is getting caught in the spam filter?? Just a guess…. If you want to post a way for me to contact you (e-mail, AIM, whatever) I’d be happy to tell you how to get the games online
“My point is that he’s pitched well enough to get the win, so I doubt the guys are frustrated with him.”
He’s about where he deserves to be Mel. He’s had 4 quality starts in 9 games, and ERA of nearly 5.30. In his 2 losses he posted an ERA of almost 7. In his 2 wins, he posted an ERA of 2.70. In his other 5 starts, his ERA is 5.81.
I don’t think he’s frustrating his teammates by any stretch, but he’s pitched to the record he’s got.
Fatboy: “IDK Tony he’s a 5 inning starter”
Kevin S.
GB/FB% ???
It may be in my glossary but I just can’t find it!
“I don’t think he’s frustrating his teammates by any stretch, but he’s pitched to the record he’s got.”
Um, they spot him 6-0 against BOS and he promptly blows it. I’d be willing to bet that they were pretty frustrated by that.
Ground ball/fly ball %
m, oh point well taken..He’s had some clunkers but overall not too bad. I think the fan base is just a little jaded about him since he came out like gangbusters, being labeled a stopper and then hasn’t lived up to it.
He’s got dominant stuff, but seems like he just gets lazy sometimes. And what’s the deal with the Cash as personal catcher? I know one of his worst outings was with Cervelli, but I like Cervelli’s game so much better
Dear Jobber,
Please pitch a complete game tonight.
AJ really hasn’t been the same since he blew the 6 run lead in Fenway.
Seems that he lost a bit of his aggressiveness and hasn’t been finishing hitters as well as he did prior to that start.
I thought Eiland made a good point the other day talking about how much he is opening up and his front shoulder is flying out on his delivery. That has lead to his wildness and inconsistency in the strike zone.
He just has to work it out. He certainly showed last year he can pitch and dominate in the AL. He just has to get back to the guy that was throwing well prior to that disaster in Boston.
Err, not percentage, but that’s groundballs per flyball, a ratio typically greater than 1.00. Wang’s career 2.71 GB/FB is what allows him to get away with striking out fewer batters than Charlie Brown.
Mike seems clueless right now.
Mike F. misses the point consistently. Perhaps the bullpen would not pick up Joba if he pitches 6 innings in a 1-1 game tonight . But perhaps they do and teh Yankees win teh game. But if Tomko starts that game, I guarantee their chances of winning that game is slim to none.
A starter has to keep his team in the game and give them a chance to win (at the minimum, of course).
Mike F. doesn’t get it and never will.
That was the only thing I heard him say today. It was more than enough. But what’s even worse then what he says is his absolute obnoxiousness about the entire subject.
“My crystal ball says, barring injury, he’s going to be there.”
Mine too. Just have to see it first. Lets see him go deep into games on a regular basis. Hit 200 IP consistently, etc. As I said earlier I think he compares more than favorably with the likes of Gallardo and Cueto, early 20-somethings who I view as part of the next wave of great pitchers.
Smart Caller: Mike why haven’t we won in our playoffs
Fatcessa: The rotation
Smart Caller: Exactly that’s why Joba has to stay in the rotation
Fatcessa: But who’s getting the ball in the 7th inning !
Smart Caller: Mike 2 yrs. ago he was in the BP and what happened !
Fatcessa: So he gave up a run, it was 1 run
Smart Caller: Mike and Wang split the bit twice
Fatcessa: But who’s getting it in the 7th inning !
Joba is not putting up those video game numbers out of the pen like he came up in 07.
The league didn’t know him well. Hitters looked ridiculous on that slider. His FB was 99/100 mph.
The league made adjustments. He still has great stuff. But to expect those 07 numbers out of the pen it’s not happening.
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/swe.....at-HR.html
bodhisattva,
Valid points.
But it’s the same show no matter the city. I’m from Nashville, which has only two major sports teams, if you count hockey as a major sport.
College football and Tennessee Titans talk dominates the airwaves there since there are no MLB or NBA teams there.
Several years ago, even after Steve McNair had taken the Titans to the Super Bowl, fans and radio hosts were calling for Neil O’ Donnell to replace him – NEIL O’DONNELL! – after a few bad games.
Oh by the way, McNair split the league MVP with Manning around that time. It was a round that time that I found sports talk radio had no redeeming value.
I’ve lived in Florida and now Boston, and the calls are the calls and hosts are of the same ilk, only the accents are different.
DT,
We should have a contest to find Francesa’s partner from the LoHud Game Threads.
Each night for a week, we should nominate one poster from the game threads for that job and debate it over the course of one of the day’s threads.
After a week, we vote for a “winner”. We can have Pete submit his name to Francesa for consideration.
Think about it…
As consolation prizes, non-winners would still receive an official WFAN dunce cap with an arrow and the text “I’m with stupid” on the front.
I’m sure Diet Coke would be a major program sponsor.
best gauge for a pitcher: batting avg against
I don’t see what the big deal is with Francessa. Johan Santana throws 120 pitches and goes 6 innings about every other outing.
If Joba has a 100 pitch limit and goes 6 then he can go 7 when we let him throw 120. I’ll take 7 innings with 2.80 ERA every day
I do not like to criticize BUT
I have the Mets encore on right now. A servicewoman (God Bless her ) is singing God Bless America as if she was on American Idol. In the early rounds, no less. Most military personnel, when asked to sing, are a lot more dignified.
Well, I’ll be very disappointed in this club if they hold the Boston game against him. That would just be sad and petty.
“best gauge for a pitcher: batting avg against”
No.
Flash on with kay
“Well, I’ll be very disappointed in this club if they hold the Boston game against him. That would just be sad and petty.”
I’m not saying that they are. But someone was claiming that the players haven’t been disappointed in AJ’s performance this year and I was merely pointing out that they probably were during that BOS game.
Look, I’m not asking everyone to love AJ. Just take a look at the facts before you come to the assumption that he’s killing this team.
“best gauge for a pitcher: batting avg against”
Alomst as important as OBP against and OPS against. League hits .196 off you but you allow 35 homers and walk guys, all is not necessarily well.
Nobody is holding the Boston game against AJ. He’s one of the most popular guys on the team.
He will be the first to tell you though that he has to pitch better. That’s all anybody is saying.
What is the scenario when Nady returns? Who goes down? I’m curious from the more knowledgeables here.
SJ, mlb.com has a scoutig report up on your nephew:
http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/events/.....nt=sanchez
As long as you have this silly 100 pitch limit, then all you will get most nights is 6… not only from Hughes, Joba but even a guy like Burnett
End the 100 pitch limit lunacy. These are grown athletes. Back in my day, we threw complete games every start regardless of PC. We threw 300 innings in a season.
Francesa needs to take a nap during the first 6 innings when Joba pitches.
Wake him up in the 7th after Joba returns from the dugout to the mound. He’ll be one happy camper.
Joet 28:
my email is lswaha@yahoo.com
Thanks a million!
I’m sure no one was more disappointed with that Boston game than AJ himself. But it’s history. Gotta let it go. I’m sure he and the Yankees have.
RhapsodyInBlue – I believe Pete posted earlier today that it would most likely be Berroa leaving for Nady
You win 14 of the last 18, nobody is killing the team per se.
But, there are guys they really need to be better.
AJ, Wang, and Swisher among that group.
Getting Posada back, hopefully next week, will also be important.
The more starters they have that can go deep and effectively into games, the more you mask the bullpen weaknesses.
Saying that Burnett has to pitch better is hardly “bashing” him.
As Pete posted, his ERA over the past 6 starts us like 7
Thanks for the quick response JoeT.
So what’s the problem with Joba in the pen for this year?
pros-
You get him pitching innings every other day. Joba was great in the pen. (I agree he’s also good as a starter)
You get your 19 game winner from last year back in the rotation.
You get a younger starter some more experience as a starting man.
You get a reliable setup man for the playoffs.
I don’t know much about developing closers, but isn’t that important in the long run aswell? How much longer does Mo have left?
cons-
You can slow his progression. I don’t see how pitching less innings now doesn’t elongate his career as a starter in the long run?
He has four pitches. Is there a rule that you can only use two pitches out of the Pen?
Maybe I’m off base, I love Joba as a starter and I loved Joba as a reliever. I just think he helps the team more as a Setup-man at this point right now.
Brad Penny is 5-1
That Fenway start feels like an eternity ago with all the injuries and mini-controversies that have brewed up since then. If AJ pitches well tomorrow, and then again in 5 days, it will be a forgotten memory. That’s the more important thing.
I Pity Pittsburgh,
Prepare for a flogging.
Tom,
I saw it, thanks.
The draft is 2 weeks from tonight and he is in Austin, TX this weekend to play in BC’s first NCAA Baseball Tournament appearance in 42 years.
Good times for the kid, that’s for sure.
Lauren I sent it
as soon as I hit ‘submit comment’, I realized I probably should have written: “another very important gauge is BAA”
A pitcher may be tough to hit, but if he’s walking batters left and right, it’s of little value.
My bad on that one.
I’d love to see Mo use the changeup more and AJ (I believe) could really improve with a third pitch, how realistic is that (as a possibility – I don’t really expect it to happen) – but I’d like to know: How easy is it for a pitcher to develope a new pitch?
Aside from a fastball, what’s the easiest pitches to learn?
I’m not taking issue with “he has to pitch better”. Of course he does.
But saying that he hasn’t gotten a win in a month is not good for the team psyche is a stretch. When the team’s rallied to win 3 of his five no-decisions. So, with the exception of Boston, Toronto, & Philly, he’s been decent to good for me.
People make like he’s killing this team and I don’t see it. And not just talking about this thread. So yes, he’s the weak link at the moment, but I’m not going to judge him off 2 months in a Yankee uni.
I don’t have a problem with Hughes coming out after 8 innings wuth a 11-0 lead. He hasn’t pitched that many pitches consistently and there is no reason to risk injury at this point. Like Girardi said, he will get plenty of opportunities to pitch complete games.
Remember what happened last time he was on that mound. If he goes back out and pops his hammy or hurts his arm then everyone will be saying why was he out there.
Jon Ringland
I Pity Pittsburgh,
Prepare for a flogging.
—————————————————–
lol, I can be swayed. I just want to know, I don’t read stuff on here much, and that’s just my personal opinion from observation.
Oh the Rays thought the Marlins slide on Iwamura was a dirty play? How do they feel now after Cervelli got slammed in ST?
game thread up
“I’d love to see Mo use the changeup more and AJ (I believe) could really improve with a third pitch, how realistic is that (as a possibility – I don’t really expect it to happen) – but I’d like to know: How easy is it for a pitcher to develope a new pitch?
Aside from a fastball, what’s the easiest pitches to learn?”
Apparently, AJ has a pretty good change-up, he just doesn’t throw it very often. Arming Mo with a change-up should be illegal. If he could throw it well, he would be untouchable (moreso than usual).
Not sure which pitch is easiest to learn, probably depends on your natural arm action.
I did learn something interesting on yesterday’s(?) broadcast… I believe Al Leiter was saying how he didn’t throw a change-up because he threw a cutter – and the way each pitch comes out of your hand is completely different. Where to throw a change-up your hand needs to stay inside the ball (like a screw-ball), but the hand on the cutter is more on the outside of the ball. Good insight, I believe it was Leiter…
The guru himself CB, during the offseason, was really adamant about the fact that AJ had the potential to be consistently dominated (I believe the Curt Schilling parallel was thrown around a lot) if he continued to focus on throwing his changeup and 2-seamer on a nightly basis, instead of getting into the 4-seamer/curve ball only routine. Lately in his starts, it’s seemed like he’s been all 4-seamers and curveballs. It’s really unfortunate because his change is a lot further along than someone like Hughes’ changeup, but he hardly ever throws it.
YankeeRay,
Did you see the play? Most amazing thing I’ve seen recently. Iwamura’s on the ground in pain, time is not granted, so the guy on third breaks for home. So Bartlett rips the ball out of Iwamura’s glove and throws the runner out at home.
Too bad he’s out for the season, but isn’t he supposed to get out of the way?
rconn23
May 26th, 2009 at 4:00 pm
bodhisattva,
Valid points.
But it’s the same show no matter the city. I’m from Nashville, which has only two major sports teams, if you count hockey as a major sport.
College football and Tennessee Titans talk dominates the airwaves there since there are no MLB or NBA teams there.
Several years ago, even after Steve McNair had taken the Titans to the Super Bowl, fans and radio hosts were calling for Neil O’ Donnell to replace him – NEIL O’DONNELL! – after a few bad games.
Oh by the way, McNair split the league MVP with Manning around that time. It was a round that time that I found sports talk radio had no redeeming value.
I’ve lived in Florida and now Boston, and the calls are the calls and hosts are of the same ilk, only the accents are different.
====
Hahahaha. Neil O’Donnell made me spit my carrot juice out. As long as you view radio as the absurdity it is, it’s fun to mock, in small doses.
As long as the team you root for doesn’t base its decision on radio discourse, you can have a chuckle over it. Apparently, Cashman doesn’t cotton to it – or Santana would be a Yankee.
I pity Pittsburgh: Just go back to the start of this thread. Read all the comments and then make up your mind. I used to be on the Yankee.com blog and left after a while because I am PRO-JOBA as a starter. And got into some nasty agruments. This blog is more astute, polite and know their baseball. This is the first time that I have not felt the immediate impulse to defend Joba because the rest of the posters did it admirably.
They are paying Igawa $4M/year + $26M (negotiating rights) for an AAA pitcher.
Phil played an 8 innings game with 0 era after 5 starts with 1 quarity start. Has he proved he’s a star?
Wang relieved 3 innings in 8 days and has just proved he’s not ready now.
I think there’s no chance for Wang until Yankees need to play doubleheaded.
Joe should never send Wang in if he don’t trust Wang.