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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Wang waits and wonders what is next

Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on May 27, 2009 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Chien-Ming Wang has pitched horrifically this season. Brutally, terribly, awfully. Let’s get that right out of the way.

But he was 46-15 with a 3.74 ERA before he hurt his foot last June and has never given the Yankees one ounce of trouble. He shows up, does his job and has been a model teammate.

So why do the Yankees sometimes treat him like an unwanted dinner guest?

It started in January 2008 when the Yankees took Wang to arbitration over a paltry $600,000. After throwing $46 million out the window on hapless Kei Igawa, the Yankees went to the mat over $600,000 for Wang then put out a press release boasting about it when they won.

Maybe they needed the $600,000 to design the new Stadium properly. No, that wasn’t it.

Never mind that Wang had gone 19-7 with a 3.70 ERA for $489,500.

Then Wang inured his foot last June, tearing a ligament and tendon so badly that he would be lost for the season. But the Yankees inexplicably refused to admit it, claiming into August that it was possible for Wang to return. Wang was left explaining his “slow recovery” to the ravenous Taiwanese media.

Now comes this season. Wang was 0-3 with a 34.50 ERA after three starts and was justifiably placed on the disabled list. After throwing 13 scoreless innings for Triple-A Scranton, Wang was summoned back to New York. After throwing a bullpen, he was sent back to Triple-A.

But as he drove to Rhode Island last Thursday to pitch a game against Pawtucket, Wang was called back. Joba Chamberlain was hit by a line drive and the Yankees were worried they would be short in the bullpen in the next day.

Wang pitched three innings on Friday and has sat around since.

That knee-jerk transaction has left Wang in limbo. He is not injured, so he can’t go on the disabled list. He has no options remaining, so he can’t go pitch in the minors. So he sits and wait.

Wang needs to pitch but he can’t work too long in the bullpen just in case he is needed in the game. So he waits and gets more rusty by the day. There was a perfect opportunity to pitch four or five innings last night when Chamberlain lasted only four innings. But Alfredo Aceves got the call.

Would this happen to Andy Pettitte? Or A.J. Burnett? Certainly not to CC Sabathia.

Please do not misunderstand, Wang has pitched poorly this season. He created this mess. But the Yankees haven’t been particularly helpful. They treated Carl Pavano better and he was a bandit.

Somebody needs to figure out a way to make this right. It’s a long season and they’re going to need Wang. He was the No. 2 starter when the season started and he could return to that status again. Given how poorly Burnett has pitched, Wang could be critical to the future of this team.

Meanwhile he sits, a 19-game winner with nothing to do.

Wang was at his locker yesterday afternoon, saying how strange he found it to be in the bullpen. Even pitching in the minors, he said, would be preferable.

“I asked the manager (on Monday) and he said to wait,” Wang said. “I just want to pitch. I know I can pitch like I did before.”

Then he paused.

“I didn’t forget how.”

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402 Responses to “Wang waits and wonders what is next”

  1. Kevin in the 908 May 27th, 2009 at 2:05 pm

    “They treated Carl Pavano better and he was a bandit” Sad, but funny Pete.

  2. norman May 27th, 2009 at 2:06 pm

    wang is ok cashman wants hughes to pitch to show other teams hes a good pitcher & trade him

  3. EvoLuTioN May 27th, 2009 at 2:06 pm

    i hope to see him get a start really soon. There have been numerous chances to get him in, or even get him in a long relief, but he’s been bypassed. This is getting absurd.

  4. Dan May 27th, 2009 at 2:06 pm

    It doesn’t make sense what’s going on here. There has to be something we don’t know.

  5. JJ May 27th, 2009 at 2:07 pm

    This is exactly why the Yankees went to arbitration with Wang. His pitching style is prone to blowups. I remember a multitude of articles saying that Wang wasn’t supposed to be this good after his first year. Imagine if we were paying this guy $10MM a year?

  6. Laura - Win together, strike out alone! May 27th, 2009 at 2:07 pm

    “I didn’t forget how.”

    Is he sure about that? He didn’t look at great during that one relief stint he had. He looked better, but he still wasn’t himself. The Yankees do have to do something because this bullpen nonsense isn’t going to work out either. Wang is not a relief pitcher. He should be in the rotation. But until they are sure he’s not going to give up 8 runs in the first inning, the Yankees are playing scared right now. This is a situation that could turn out badly for everyone involved.

  7. Joe D May 27th, 2009 at 2:07 pm

    I don’t know who gets treated worse…. Wang by the coaches/GM or the fans by Trost/Levine.

  8. mark May 27th, 2009 at 2:08 pm

    please get him to the minors immediately so he can pitch.

  9. steve May 27th, 2009 at 2:08 pm

    “Given how poorly Burnett has pitched, Wang could be critical to the future of this team.”

    Bingo. Wang makes this rotation so much better and allows us to mask mediocrity that is AJ Burnett.

  10. Ted May 27th, 2009 at 2:08 pm

    I miss Sam Borden already.

  11. EvoLuTioN May 27th, 2009 at 2:09 pm

    “Imagine if we were paying this guy $10MM a year?”

    Yeah god forbid we paid him for all the wins he has gotten us in the past. You call yourself a Yankee fan?

    Wang has been OUR MAN for a few years now, just when he hits a blip you guys are going to abandon him? Pathetic.

  12. Pel (Uncertainty is certain.) May 27th, 2009 at 2:09 pm

    inb4randyneilallenstory :razz:

  13. jldraw May 27th, 2009 at 2:09 pm

    The reason The NYY treat Wang like an unwanted dinner guest is because he’s let the organization down in the most glaring situations. The expected him to be their ace in years past and given that they went out and signed CC Sabathia in the offseason there are at least some in the organization who despite Wang’s ace like win/loss record feel that all he’ll ever be is a solid #2 pitcher. They thought they were developing an “ace” and didn’t get one – that could sour the stomachs of a few suits along the way.

    Also I believe the 2007 playoffs have a lot to do with Wang’s fall from grace with The Yankees. This is what I referenced when I mentioned Wang let the team down in glaring situations. Wang cost the Yankees the playoffs in 2007. On the big stage and in the big moment he was horrible – Nothing Wang could have done in 2008 (even if he remained healthy) could’ve made up for his implosion in the 2007 playoffs. The only way Wang could’ve gotten back into the good graces of the NYY is to be a legitimate ace in the postseason because that’s what they expect out of him.

    As much as I hate to say it I have to agree with Peter in my thinking that at times since 2007 Wang appears to be an afterthought when it comes to this team.

  14. Bryan May 27th, 2009 at 2:09 pm

    they aren’t trading Hughes.. nice try

    Two things I need answers to:

    1) Why in the world does Joba throw 91-93 when last year as a starter he was 95+

    2) What is the plan for Wang?

  15. m May 27th, 2009 at 2:09 pm

    norman,

    Why would the Yankees need to showcase Hughes? Other teams know who Hughes is and what he’s capable of. He and Buchholz would have to be two of the most coveted pitching prospects worth trading for. So they’re parking Wang on the bench, and they’re going to throw him in the rotation after they trade Hughes?

  16. #9 May 27th, 2009 at 2:10 pm

    Bring back Ron Guidry as a coach for a few weeks – he knew how to deal with Wang with a few simple words:

    “Keep the pitches down!”

  17. Rex May 27th, 2009 at 2:10 pm

    Shows how little faith that had in AJ that they felt he needed his own long man for the Phillies game. They couldn’t use Claggett or somebody.

    And what purpose does Tomko serve if he can’t be a long man?

  18. andrew May 27th, 2009 at 2:10 pm

    good piece pete and its true and kinda sad. i wonder why they treat him so crappy considering how much he helped the team prior to last seasons injury. just very very strange

  19. EvoLuTioN May 27th, 2009 at 2:11 pm

    Andy Pettitte imploded beyond repair last year during the 2nd half. You guys understand that can happen again right? And before Wang went down with the injury he was on his way to another 18+ win season.

    We need Wang, he is integral to our success.

  20. dan 771 May 27th, 2009 at 2:11 pm

    randy l – please come here and shed some light on the situation.

  21. Andrew May 27th, 2009 at 2:11 pm

    Wang disgusts me. I could care less about his past numbers. He has two fatal flaws:

    1) TERRIBLE in the playoffs.
    2) Can’t get the Red Sox out (with that one hitter being a near lone exception)

    If you have these flaws in New York —> GET OUT

  22. Kevin in the 908 May 27th, 2009 at 2:12 pm

    Bryan I honestly don’t think they have a plan for Wang. I honestly do not think they thought that far ahead when deciding to bring up Wang last Friday to help a tiring bullpen out.

  23. EvoLuTioN May 27th, 2009 at 2:12 pm

    jldraw, if the Yankees thought they were developing an ace, then they have some TERRIBLE scouting. Wang would have never been a true ace, but he sure has hell was a GOOD pitcher that racks up wins.

  24. EvoLuTioN May 27th, 2009 at 2:13 pm

    some of the “Yankee” fans on this blog are despicable.

  25. Scor May 27th, 2009 at 2:14 pm

    We’re not winning the division without Wang and with this bullpen

    We NEED Wang

  26. stuart May 27th, 2009 at 2:14 pm

    pete always shows his bias in his writings .he likes wang for good reasons, he is homegrown, has performed well until recently, and is a good guy.

    he has not just pitched poorly so far, he has pitched as bad as any starter in baseball has in 50 years over 3 starts.. that is REAL BAD. they need to figure this our and again Joba inconsistiencies are not helping either the starting rotation or the pen…

    It would be interesting to see why girardi did not use wang last night which would have been the opportune time. all managers go to a reliever(in this case aceves) and gets good results and goes back again and again until they falter.. you do that with Mo and guys like that, the yanks have no one at this moment to trust in the pen except Mo that is astounding…

  27. Kevin in the 908 May 27th, 2009 at 2:14 pm

    Mikey-”They should hit him (Burnett) with a pie every time he gives up a home run ball”-LOL

  28. SJ44 May 27th, 2009 at 2:14 pm

    Bottom line, the Yankees screwed up by bringing him back too early.

    Now, he is in pitching limbo.

    Its easy for fickle fans to forget just how good he was.

    But, let’s take an unvarnished look at this starting staff:

    CC is great and is a rock.

    Burnett hasn’t been the same since the Boston Debacle.

    Pettitte has been ok, nothing special.

    Chamberlain and Hughes are kids and are up and down.

    You mean to tell me Wang is not needed? Sorry, I don’t buy it.

    When he is right, he’s the second best starting pitcher on this staff.

    If he gets fixed, they have the best starting pitching in baseball. If not, you are asking guys to do more than they may be capable of doing at this stage of their careers.

    You know what the Yankees should do? Get Wang 3 innings tonight no matter what. They have a day off tomorrow and can give the entire bullpen a night off.

    If they have the lead in the 9th in a save situation, go to Mo. Aside from that, get Wang 3 innings tonight, results of the game be damned.

    If he pitches well, schedule a start for him next week and see how it goes.

    If he doesn’t, make up another injury, DL him and get him fixed the right way this time.

    If they can’t use him, they can’t keep him in limbo and make him the Angel Berroa (a player on the roster who never plays) of the pitching staff.

    Its not fair to him and its not fair to the team.

  29. #9 May 27th, 2009 at 2:15 pm

    If the Yanks were never too high on Wang – shouldn’t they offered him to Twins along with Kennedy when they were after Johan?

  30. G. Love May 27th, 2009 at 2:16 pm

    I know Pete’s got a thing for Wang since he wrote a book about him….but Wang was horrible this season and the team should not feel compelled to put a lamb out to the slaughter and hope he recaptures his old self at the major league level.

    He either needs to be in AAA (which he’d have to agree to) or he needs to pitch out of the pen and show his old stuff.

    Should he have pitched last night? Absolutely. But perhaps Girardi and Eiland have lost so much faith in him that they felt he would have gotten rocked last night and put the game out of reach early.

    If that’s the case, he’s going to have to take his chances when gets them and prove himself all over again.

    David Ortiz was one of the best hitters in baseball who dare I say has a much richer career pedigree than Wang and because he is unable to perform he’s had to accept moving down in the order and being forced to take days off.

    If he can do it w/o crying about it, so can Wang.

    Results will get him back in the rotation. Not good BP sessions. Not sitting there and nodding and mumbling about 19 win seasons. He needs results.

    He was awful this year and in his most recent appearance he didn’t look that great either.

    The Yankees and Girardi have more of a responsibility to win games than to ease Wang’s transition back to being a major league quality pitcher again.

    The way the pen has performed this season the team cannot go through another debacle with Wang like earlier this season.

  31. mg May 27th, 2009 at 2:16 pm

    wang will be fine. he has a lot of pride and this will push him even more; nyy are in a good position (1 game out) and there will be add’l injuries and wang will be right back where he started (after a little bullpen shake-up)…when he comes back it will be like a huge midseason trade (for free)

  32. Seth May 27th, 2009 at 2:16 pm

    I love how they push Wang to the side and treats him like an outcast, yet they give proven mediocrity like AJ $82 million dollars.

    Wang has carried the pitching staff in 06 and 07. He was 8-2 last year, on pace for another 19 win season.

    They don’t seem concerned at all about getting him back on track.

  33. jldraw May 27th, 2009 at 2:17 pm

    Evolution –

    Yes but Andy Pettitte has money in the bank so to speak with this team. Is he hall of fame bound? Probably not but there will be an Andy Pettitte day and maybe one day they might retire his number alongside the other Yankee greats.

    Wang doesn’t have the resume Andy has with this team. Yes I know Wang has won nineteen games two years in a row but I think when it comes to Wang The Yankees know what they have from him and they don’t see him developing beyond what he is right now. They would much rather invest their time in developing Hughes and Chamberlain who they both feel probably have a higher ceiling than Wang.

    That being said Wang shouldn’t be treated as shabbily as he has been treated. He is integral to our success this year because neither Joba nor Hughes are anywhere near where Wang is on a good day in 2009. The Yankees and Wang need each other right now. Wang needs to pitch so he can regain his confidence and start being the Wang of old. The Yankees need Wang to be the Wang of old so they can pencil in another legitimate starter into their rotation.

    But beyond that, I don’t think Wang is highly thought of in the Yankee food chain and to be fair I think his reputation of being a somewhat soft player who can’t deliver the team in big situations is somewhat fair.

  34. Steve B May 27th, 2009 at 2:17 pm

    Cashman and the Yankees badly mismanaged this whole thing with Wang. Spring training somehow wasn’t long enough for the brass to figure out he still was not right. Then they foolishly cut short his rehab for wont of a long reliever for a game or two. This organization should be too good for such sloppy management of it’s assests.

  35. Andrew May 27th, 2009 at 2:17 pm

    So say Wang comes back and is great for the last 3-4 months… would Girardi dare give him a postseason start? Hope not.

  36. Laura - Win together, strike out alone! May 27th, 2009 at 2:17 pm

    “You know what the Yankees should do? Get Wang 3 innings tonight no matter what. They have a day off tomorrow and can give the entire bullpen a night off.

    If they have the lead in the 9th in a save situation, go to Mo. Aside from that, get Wang 3 innings tonight, results of the game be damned.

    If he pitches well, schedule a start for him next week and see how it goes. ”

    I agree, SJ44. Let him pitch tonight and if it goes well, give him a start. They can’t let this situation go on for much longer. They are doing damage to this guy and it’s not fair.

  37. cor shep May 27th, 2009 at 2:19 pm

    Current Moves:
    DFA Berroa – Bring up J-Rod/Linden
    Wang on the DL – Bring up Melancon

    Near Future Moves:
    When Nady is ready DFA Tomko
    When Posada is ready DFA Cash
    When Molina is ready demote Cervelli

    Made 1 correction: looks pretty good.

  38. Drew May 27th, 2009 at 2:19 pm

    It doesn’t make any sense. They should have left him in the minors. The claim was that no one could give them any length from the other Scranton pitchers already on the 40 man. Meanwhile you have Tomko languishing out there too (Use him or dump him).

  39. #9 May 27th, 2009 at 2:19 pm

    The season is still young. Eventually the Yankees will “need” Wang back because injuries will happen – you can never have too much pitching after all.

  40. EvoLuTioN May 27th, 2009 at 2:19 pm

    The Yankees totally screwed over Wang by recalling him and throwing him in that mop up MESS in the phillies game.

    Now they won’t give him any attempt to redeem himself and he isn’t getting the regular work he would have in the minors.

    Yankees disgust me with how they handled this

  41. Laura - Win together, strike out alone! May 27th, 2009 at 2:19 pm

    “David Ortiz was one of the best hitters in baseball who dare I say has a much richer career pedigree than Wang and because he is unable to perform he’s had to accept moving down in the order and being forced to take days off. If he can do it w/o crying about it, so can Wang. ”

    Wait a minute. You are comparing Wang to a guy who is sucking because he’s going through steroid withdrawal? Really? Alrighty then!

  42. stuart May 27th, 2009 at 2:20 pm

    SJ with a smart gameplan for wang….

    why don’t the yanks try it????

    I also cannot beleive the ygot so panicked to call up Wang when joba got hit they couldn’t call up roebertson or melancon for the few days……

  43. H-Town May 27th, 2009 at 2:21 pm

    Maybe Girardi felt that AJ would get lit up tonight facing this Texas lineup and he wanted him for tonight rather than yesterday

    Remember, yesterday’s game was 3-1 when Joba came out and 3-3 an inning later. Not the spot for Wang. Aceves was the right call when the game was that close

  44. SJ44 May 27th, 2009 at 2:21 pm

    Andrew…..Another 10 year old Yankee fan who thinks 2 playoff starts and Red Sox games are the only games that matter. God, no wonder why the world hates Yankee fans.

    GLove,

    From the other thread re: Joba…

    The league has adjusted to him. They aren’t chasing the slider away down in the count anymore. He has to be able to throw it more for strikes. That’s why he is getting into so many deep counts.

    His velocity? His last 3 starts, he was consistently 94-96 with his fastball. Last night he wasn’t. Why? Mechanics.

    His mechanics were all out of whack last night. When Joba is right, he drives off the mound like Clemens in his heyday. That’s where he generates his velocity.

    When he’s wrong, he “spins” off the rubber. By that, I mean, he spins off his back foot, driving less to the plate, and that basically puts all the pressure on his arm/shoulder to generate velocity.

    Pitching coaches will tell you that will lead to losing 3-5 MPH on your pitches. As well as leading to shoulder problems if it keeps up.

    Last night, he wasn’t in good form out there. It happens with young guys. We see it with Hughes. Its all part of the development process.

  45. Coach6423 May 27th, 2009 at 2:21 pm

    HAHAHAHA,

    Hughes is a starter, but Jobber to da pen.

  46. EvoLuTioN May 27th, 2009 at 2:22 pm

    Lol who the hell just compared Ortiz to Wang?

    Ortiz has been showing signs of regression for YEARS NOW.

    Wang? 19 games, 19 games, and on his way to 19+ games last year.

  47. KT22 May 27th, 2009 at 2:23 pm

    Lets hope AJ is lights out, and we dont have to experiment with 3 innings from Wang.

  48. you gotta have faith (right porch giveth and the right porch taketh away) May 27th, 2009 at 2:23 pm

    the yankees truly messed up by bringing him back. and whats with not using him yesterday? the bullpen is going to give up runs anyway, save aceves and let wang pitch!

  49. Thomas Robust May 27th, 2009 at 2:23 pm

    It shouldn’t come as a surprise that Wang is treated unfairly. Many fans feel that Wang is a disaster waiting to happen. This year it happened. Because Wang is a contact pitcher, fans don’t believe he can keep up his great numbers. Some fans that I speak to would trade Wang for a decent bullpen pitcher, because they want him gone. So, if the fans treat him like that, then why be surprised when the team does the same. Sad, but that’s life. People are just not treated fairly. (added by Mobile using Mippin)

  50. Dave D. May 27th, 2009 at 2:23 pm

    Again, what purpose does Brett Tomko serve if he can’t serve as a long man/spot starter?

    This guy has been moved back and forth his entire career. They wanted him as a 2 inning reliever in Scranton? For what?

    Tomko is a veteran, he can stretch himself out and pitch 5 innings if we need a long man. If not, just try him one day and release him. Instead, they aborted their plans for their #2 starter because they felt AJ would get lit up against Philly.

    Poor, poor planning. Things like this make us look like a Mickey Mouse orginization.

  51. stuart May 27th, 2009 at 2:24 pm

    the issues I am amazed at is if wang really had weakness in his hips and core that affected his pitching how did these great minds not pick this up earlier?

    like the arod hip issue, he ssaid he had issues at the end of last season. when you have $250 + mill. investment would you not be smarter about it and also ask more questions of your players?

    the philly outing for wang was fine, 3 innings, he did not do terrible, he improved over his starts and that was a reasonable outing……..

  52. Steve B May 27th, 2009 at 2:24 pm

    “So say Wang comes back and is great for the last 3-4 months… would Girardi dare give him a postseason start? Hope not.”

    You want Sabathia instead? His postseason numbers are worse than Wang’s.

  53. S.A.--Let's get ready to rumble! May 27th, 2009 at 2:25 pm

    This whole Wang situation just makes me sad.
    What.A.Mess.

    Now Sweeney is on the Jobber maybe to the pen bandwagon? :?

  54. Wave Your Hat May 27th, 2009 at 2:25 pm

    Starting Wang right now doesn’t make sense to me. It’s more than just rolling the dice – it’s not fair to Wang or the team.

    Sure, he could pitch well. Then everything’s rosy and back to normal.

    But he could not pitch well. What happens then? How fast do you take him out? Do you let him try to work his way out of trouble? What do you do with him if he gets bombed?

    IMO, you don’t start him until you have confidence he will pitch well. And I don’t think that’s where things are right now.

    Which leads me to another issue – given the uncertainty regarding Wang, the negativity with Joba as a starter doesn’t make sense to me.

    On an ERA basis, he’s been our second best starter this year.

    On an individual game basis, leaving out the start where he got hit and came out in the first, he has three excellent to very good starts, two bad starts and three average starts (in which I include one “quality” start.

    In those eight starts, he has pitched at least 6 innings four times, and gotten us into the 6th inning twice more.

    For a pitcher Joba’s age, those are excellent results so far.

    Plus, if you move Joba to the pen, exactly who is our fifth starter right now? See the Wang discussion above.

  55. Steve B May 27th, 2009 at 2:26 pm

    “Aceves was the right call when the game was that close”

    All evidence to the contrary.

  56. G. Love May 27th, 2009 at 2:26 pm

    Laura,

    Whatever is the cause for Ortiz’s demise, he’s a former great player who is having to accept the reality that he sucks right now and the team shouldn’t be forced to roll him out in a prime position just for old times sake.

    Wang has sucked this season. Sucked. He screwed the team in the spring by not admitting he wasn’t sound physically then comes into April with some of the worst bullpen killing performances we’ve seen from a Yankee starter. Then he gets a month off and comes back and still looks shaky on the mound.

    He has to earn his way back and accept the fact that the team just can’t roll him out every 5 days and watch him destroy the pen.

    If he can give a few solid pen performances and dare I say get a 1, 2, 3 inning or two in there, then we can talk about his return to the rotation.

    There’s a reason why they didn’t go to him last night. Maybe the Yankees know he’s still not right and they aren’t willing to sacrifice wins to find out.

  57. DB - (officially panicked 5/13/09) May 27th, 2009 at 2:27 pm

    The only thing that makes sense is bringing Wang in tonoght. It would be his 5th day since he pitched last when AJ started. What doesn’t make sense is why they are trying to slot him into AJ’s spot in the rotation. AJ can go deep into games unlike the kids at this point and the rotation cycle is completely different now.

    Last night was the opportune time for Wang…Girardi seemed like he had somthing up his sleeve when asked about it last night, who knows

  58. Cal May 27th, 2009 at 2:27 pm

    “Mikey-”They should hit him (Burnett) with a pie every time he gives up a home run ball”-LOL”

    LOL, I can think of something else that they can hit him with, more like a steaming pile of warm horse manure would do the trick. Burnett sure knows how to get out the whip cream, too bad in the meanwhile like Swisher he seemingly has forgotten he is paid to pitch well.

  59. EvoLuTioN May 27th, 2009 at 2:27 pm

    How was Aceves the right call? IN WHAT SENSE? You say the guy is gonna be a late inning option, and you bring him in the 5th inning?!!? WHILE HE PITCHED AN INNING YESTERDAY?

    complete nonsense.

  60. DB - (officially panicked 5/13/09) May 27th, 2009 at 2:28 pm

    If AJ is pitching another no-hitter like he did in Tampa then Girardi’s got problems…albiet a nice problem to have

  61. SJ44 May 27th, 2009 at 2:28 pm

    One thing folks have to realize, baseball is a game of constant adjustments.

    Between video and advance scouting, guys get figured out faster than ever nowadays and you have to be able to make adjustments quickly to be successful.

    Hitters have to make adjustments in the way they are pitched to. Pitchers have to do the same.

    In Joba’s case, when you see hitters lay off the slider as much as they do, you have to make adjustments. He threw some nice curveballs last night to get outs.

    But, his fastball command was missing. When that happens, hitters have control. They go up with a plan. They lay off the slider (good hitters can recognize it when it comes out of a pitchers hand) and, knowing his fastball command is off, lay off everything except fastballs in their “happy zone”.

    When a hitter can eliminate pitchers pitchesand location in a plate appearance, the hitter, not the pitcher, is in control.

    What makes Halliday so great is, he can locate any of his pitches any time at any spot in the hitters quadrant. That gives the hitters less to eliminate and makes Halliday tougher to hit.

    Its all about making adjustments. That’s all part of the process. It comes with experience.

    That’s why folks plead for patience with younger arms. You can’t rush it.

  62. Stultus Magnus (Storm the Moat) May 27th, 2009 at 2:29 pm

    Wang deserves a spot, he’s been great since coming up and was doing great before he got injured. I remember the arbitration news, it was ridiculous. Wang’s done nothing but been great at his job since coming up. He imploded in the playoffs one year, so what? So did Pettitte, so has CC, it happens.

    The Yanks need to get Wang back on track and they should start with some freakin’ playing time. Nothing good can come of sitting in the bullpen, never getting the call.

    Yes, unless it’s a super tight game through the 9th, get Wang some innings. Start there. Start with some sort of workload.

  63. stuart May 27th, 2009 at 2:29 pm

    ortiz is 33 wang is 28 or 29. ortiz may have and probably did use PED’s.. wang is a starting pitcher, ortiz is a DH a much easier position to finda decent replacement.

    boston should move ortiz down in the order he is killing them, wang until this recent callup was not treated badly or unwarranted, he was horrible and they could not pitch him. now they need to pitch him to see if he can turn things around, let tomko, and other bums go stale from inconsistent use, they are of little consequence to the team…

  64. TIME FOR #27 May 27th, 2009 at 2:29 pm

    Wow this post made me so upset…
    Wang was my baby, i loved watching him throw one ground ball ater another and now pete is reminding me how the yankees are treatig him. WHAT A SHAME!!! COME BACK WANG!!!

  65. bru May 27th, 2009 at 2:29 pm

    he will pitch today once burnett gets bombed again.

  66. EvoLuTioN May 27th, 2009 at 2:30 pm

    lol Mike is YELLING on the radio

  67. Leonardo Vittini May 27th, 2009 at 2:31 pm

    love reading the blog, normally don’t comment but I just wanted to say: great effin’ post. so very true.

  68. DB - (officially panicked 5/13/09) May 27th, 2009 at 2:31 pm

    Evolution, you can’t deny that…no logic whats-so-ever. However, there are always things that the fans and media don’t know. If we knew the whole story maybe then it would make sense. It’s one of those things that drives us and the media nuts

  69. JoeT 28 in 10!! MELKY FOR MVP!!!! May 27th, 2009 at 2:31 pm

    It’s amazing how loud Mike gets to drown out anyone who disagrees with him…. ALEX YOU’RE THE MAN!!

  70. Rudy May 27th, 2009 at 2:31 pm

    LOLOLOL Alex got him so heated and he’s right. Joba’s ERA as a starter is one of the best.

  71. Coach6423 May 27th, 2009 at 2:31 pm

    HAHAHAHA…..FRANCESSA PWNED!!!!

  72. i-know-nothing May 27th, 2009 at 2:32 pm

    OFF topic:

    How many times does Derek Jeter swing at balls?

    wow.

  73. sw May 27th, 2009 at 2:32 pm

    The dumbest part about the Wang arbitration case was that Wang’s agent offered to split the difference at 4.3 million and the Yankees said no and essentially took him to arbitration to save 300,000, not 600,000. It’s not that surprising they’re treating him so badly though, I mean they weren’t exactly great with Pettitte when he was the same age after he’d won a few championships and tried to trade him to Philly for Adam Eaton. Then the whole 2003 free agency debacle where they offered him $20 million less than Boston with only two guaranteed years. All the money has to be saved for shiny new free agents, apparently.

  74. Coach6423 May 27th, 2009 at 2:33 pm

    Wow, Alex makes sense and Mike is wrong…SHOCKER

  75. SJ44 May 27th, 2009 at 2:33 pm

    Wave,

    The reason why you give Wang a start right now is twofold.

    1. To see how he is. Suppose he pitches well? It would be a step in the right direction.

    2. Probably the better reason if he isn’t right at this time…..if he gets blasted, you have another “reason” to DL him and take him off the roster.

    As it is now, its like they are playing a pitcher short with Wang in bullpen limbo. One way of alleviating that is to start him.

    They can’t keep wasting roster spots. If he isn’t going to get consistent work here, they have to find a way to DL him again.

    One way to do so is to start him and, if the results aren’t great, find another way to DL him and free up the roster spot.

    This way, he gets another 30 days, past the 15 Day stay on the DL, to get fixed.

  76. carl May 27th, 2009 at 2:33 pm

    What did Alex say?

  77. Bman May 27th, 2009 at 2:33 pm

    Wang needs to pitch… Aceves is used too often. Wang should have pitched in Texas last night. Wang does not belong in the bullpen. I won’t be surprised if/when he leaves when he is eligible for free agency with this garbage going on.

  78. EvoLuTioN May 27th, 2009 at 2:34 pm

    Francesa just said Porcello is someone no one has ever heard of.

    LOL, he was a first rounder Mike.

  79. Chris May 27th, 2009 at 2:34 pm

    The cause for Ortiz’ demise is simple. He doesn’t have Manny Ramirez. Ramirez made Ortiz. Look at his career numbers with Manny and without. He was nothing before him, he’s nothing after him. There’s a reason why the Twins let him go after the 2002 season. He was a mediocre hitter, who was inconsistent and had wrist injuries for 2 and a half seasons. And look at what he is now that Manny is out of Boston? A mediocre hitter, who is inconsistent and has wrist injuries.

  80. S.A.--Let's get ready to rumble! May 27th, 2009 at 2:34 pm

    LOL Francesa is about to pop a blood vessel

  81. JonNy May 27th, 2009 at 2:35 pm

    hahaha, this is the only reason i listen to francessa. i find it hilarious when he blows up.

  82. SJ44 May 27th, 2009 at 2:35 pm

    True story about the Wang arbitration case….

    He never met the person arguing the case for him until the day of the hearing.

    His agents don’t do arbitration cases. They farm them out.

    They did a last minute rush job on it and it cost the kid.

  83. Bob(The Original) May 27th, 2009 at 2:35 pm

    That was a winnable game last night. Bringing Wang in instead of Aceves in that situation would have been beyond foolish on Girardi’s part. Wang has been serving up meatballs all season. it most likely would have been a disaster had he pitched in that stadium to that lineup.

    The Yanks most likely have gotten all they will ever get out of him. One pitch sinkerballers like him generally have short shelf lives to begin with. The Yanks have known this all along and that’s why he never got the long term deal. He is not in their long term plans.

    And please Pete, don’t try that he’s being treated worse than Pavano nonsense.

  84. G. Love May 27th, 2009 at 2:37 pm

    Man are some of you guys so myopic and literal.

    I’m comparing Ortiz to Wang in the realm of great players who are struggling right now and have to reclaim their respective places on the team with good performances.

    Take Ortiz out and sub in Nolasco in Florida (who had a couple of very good seasons and is now in AAA) if it makes you happier.

  85. EvoLuTioN May 27th, 2009 at 2:37 pm

    THAT IS ATROCIOUS

  86. S.A.--Let's get ready to rumble! May 27th, 2009 at 2:37 pm

    True story about the Wang arbitration case….

    He never met the person arguing the case for him until the day of the hearing.

    His agents don’t do arbitration cases. They farm them out.

    They did a last minute rush job on it and it cost the kid.

    ============================

    For real? :(

  87. Laura - Win together, strike out alone! May 27th, 2009 at 2:38 pm

    “The cause for Ortiz’ demise is simple. He doesn’t have Manny Ramirez. ”

    That and he’s off the ‘roids.

  88. Coach6423 May 27th, 2009 at 2:39 pm

    ATROCIOUS!!!!

  89. Frankie Yankee May 27th, 2009 at 2:39 pm

    It seems to be an issue with how to treat home grown players… remember that the Yanks let Andy go to Houston and the horrendous trades Cashman has made for pitching.

    I am a supporter of Cashman but a changing of the guard (bring Lonn Trost with ya) may be the best situation for the Yanks. While pitching in the system is deep none actually get a chance to prove themself. Robertson is up and down, Melancon got half a chance, then was shipped back, it took them weeks to send an ineffective Edwar down, Veras has proved nothing and the Yanks are dropping loads of pressure on Phil Coke (who last year was told he would be a starter, now he is their 8th inning guy). Why is Tomko still on this roster too? Wouldnt we be best served seeing if our youth can perform, instead we get older and older. The yanks need flexibility on the 40 man roster, which is just in shambles right now.

    My moves: DFA Berroa, bring up Linden or Shelley. DFA Tomko, bring up Melancon. Try to trade Miranda – he is taking up a 40 man spot with no chance of making it behind Teixiera and once Posada returns send down Cash.

  90. Kevin in the 908 May 27th, 2009 at 2:39 pm

    My set of questions for Mike: If we move Joba to the bullpen we send Wang out to the starting rotation correct? What do we end up doing if Wang is not fixed?

  91. Bryan May 27th, 2009 at 2:40 pm

    get that man a diet coke and fried food STAT… HURRY!!!!

  92. you gotta have faith (right porch giveth and the right porch taketh away) May 27th, 2009 at 2:40 pm

    mike paused when he saw the numbers of jobas 5 last starts b/c he expected them to be worse LMAO, they really arent that bad. Porcello has a 3.55 era and joba a 3.97 era. the guys isnt pitching circles around joba, jeez.

  93. Bob(The Original) May 27th, 2009 at 2:41 pm

    Kevin in the 908
    May 27th, 2009 at 2:39 pm
    My set of questions for Mike: If we move Joba to the bullpen we send Wang out to the starting rotation correct? What do we end up doing if Wang is not fixed?

    ————————-

    Go out and trade for Arroyo. lol

  94. Jon Ringland May 27th, 2009 at 2:41 pm

    “That and he’s off the ‘roids.”

    ding ding ding

  95. Coach6423 May 27th, 2009 at 2:41 pm

    THAT IS ATROCIOUS!!!

  96. Christina - new pictures on the blog May 27th, 2009 at 2:41 pm

    I am really starting to doubt Francesa’s intelligence.

  97. Rudy May 27th, 2009 at 2:41 pm

    Split for Joba as a starter and reliever. Can someone please show Mike these stats?

    http://www.baseball-reference......;t=p#sprel

  98. Benny Blanco May 27th, 2009 at 2:42 pm

    mike is right…

  99. Bryan May 27th, 2009 at 2:42 pm

    Porcello no one has ever heard of him… hmmm I recall the day of the draft and everyone ticked off that the Tigers took him a few picks before the Yankees.

    Like I said get him food he is hungry!!!

  100. stuart May 27th, 2009 at 2:43 pm

    yea one pitch sinkerballers like wang have short shelf lifes.. just ask derek lowe.. the guy who just got a huge contract and has been pitching for well over 10 years and who throws about 3 or 4 miles per hour slower then wang and had very goos success in his career but no better then wang did in his 3 year run…….

  101. Benny Blanco May 27th, 2009 at 2:43 pm

    One thing to consider is the stats..on joba. they dont lie.

  102. Christina - new pictures on the blog May 27th, 2009 at 2:43 pm

    He is wrong about Joba.

  103. kasey May 27th, 2009 at 2:44 pm

    if wang “didn’t forget how” then he ought to have displayed that when they used him in relief. he didn’t. he pitched poorly yet again.

    nobody in the organization was in control of joba catching a line drive and the subsequent depletion of the bullpen. wang was a victim of circumstance there.

    they’ve handled this situation poorly, for sure, but it wasn’t anyone in the organization pitching to a 35 ERA in three starts. that was all chien-ming wang and if he was injured, he needed to step up and say so, just like brian bruney.

    if he’s so sure he can pitch like he did before, then where is it? he got three starts and a relief to show he could get hitters out and he did no such thing. quite the opposite. he laid down a red carpet and ushered a boatload of runs in.

  104. SJ44 May 27th, 2009 at 2:44 pm

    Benny,

    He’s not right about anything. He’s a clown. How can you talk young arms and not have heard of Rick Porcello?

    Its dumbbell talk. It really is.

    If Mike had his way, Bernie Williams would still be the CF.

    Its comic relief on a boring day. Its not real baseball talk.

  105. Patrick from CT May 27th, 2009 at 2:46 pm

    Wang should have pitched last night but Joe didn’t trust him in a close game.
    Wang will pitch tonight if AJ is not lights-out through 7.
    If Wang does not get in the game tonight he should pitch a simulated game tomorrow.
    The guy needs to pitch if he’s going to get better. The Yankees are going to need him for sure!
    Neither Joba or Phil is going to pitch more than 150 innings….

  106. Christina - new pictures on the blog May 27th, 2009 at 2:47 pm

    I really don’t think Mike comprehends or knows that Joba was a starter when he was in the minors.

  107. Bob(The Original) May 27th, 2009 at 2:47 pm

    stuart
    May 27th, 2009 at 2:43 pm
    yea one pitch sinkerballers like wang have short shelf lifes.. just ask derek lowe.. the guy who just got a huge contract and has been pitching for well over 10 years and who throws about 3 or 4 miles per hour slower then wang and had very goos success in his career but no better then wang did in his 3 year run…….

    —————————————–

    The only pitchers to throw over 1,000 career innings since 1990 with a strikeout rate of 4.5 or lower: Carlos Silva, Kirk Rueter, Ricky Bones, Bob Tewksbury, Brian Anderson, Zane Smith, Mike Moore and Steve Sparks. Pitchers with a lower strikeout rate relative to league in 500 or more innings, 1990 to present: Aaron Cook, Jimmy Anderson, Rueter, John Doherty, Silva and Horacio Ramirez.

  108. carl May 27th, 2009 at 2:47 pm

    Joba is a number 5 starter and what, 23 years old! Let the kid grow. We all get disappointed when he only goes 3-4-5 innings but that’s natural. Hes not gonna learn how to go more innings coming out of the Pen. I swear if you used the logic people are using on Joba we wouldn’t have starters. He’s shown he can be competitive at this level…Give him some time.

  109. bru May 27th, 2009 at 2:47 pm

    enough with stereotyping yankee fans.

    the world hates yankee fans because we spend more money than any other team & we win a lot not because of stupid comments.

    yankee fans are not the only fans that make stupid comments.

    the problem with wang is no pitcher deserves to be taken out of the rotation right now so wang can pitch combined with the fact that all the other pitchers are making big bucks.

    it is a lot easier to pull hughes if he is pitching poorly & making 5 hundred thousand than it is burnett.

    if hughes struggles or joba is terrible wang gets a start but as long as hughes does well wang sits especially after the gem hughes pitched against texas.

    the bullpen is another story.he should get innings in there.

  110. Wave Your Hat May 27th, 2009 at 2:48 pm

    SJ44-

    I don’t claim to have an answer on Wang. As I said above, I just don’t think it’s fair, even to Wang, to start him because if he gets into trouble, IMO, he’ll be worse off than before. It’s enormous, enormous pressure on him.

    I just get so mad when I think about the Yanks bringing Wang up last Friday. They weren’t comfortable with him, they didn’t have a role planned for him. They weren’t ready to give him a start – the day before they publicly said they wanted him to start once more at Scranton.

    They had Tomko in the pen for long relief. They could have used him – what’s Tomko on the roster for if they don’t want to use him that way?

    Instead, they brought up Wang, put him into the game and he gives up 6 hits and 2 ER in 3 IP. Now, they don’t know what to do with him.

    I think, given the situation, he should pitch out of the pen. If he puts together some good relief outings, then giving him a start at that point makes more sense to me.

  111. Jon Ringland May 27th, 2009 at 2:49 pm

    “Its dumbbell talk. It really is.”

    Because you dont agree with him? His points are valid, dude. You can’t argue with the stats.

  112. S.A.--Let's get ready to rumble! May 27th, 2009 at 2:49 pm

    mike is right…
    ========================

    Oh no he is not

  113. Christina - new pictures on the blog May 27th, 2009 at 2:50 pm

    “Atrocious, ATROCIOUS! Just simply atrocious.”

    I think we get it.

  114. GreenBeret7 May 27th, 2009 at 2:50 pm

    I really don’t need to read a word for word account of Francessa rants. If I did, I’d tune it in. Only those that need another issue to whine about listens to him, then drag it here. The rest are more clueless about baseball than he is. I swear…George steinbrenner knew more about baseball than the Francessa listeners and some of the “wizards” on here. How much did Steinbrenner know about baseball? In a 1973 game, he got all excited because he thought the Yankees had tied a game up when, with a runner on third and two outs, the runner crossed the plate before the guy was thrown out at first base. He’s clapping and cheering, until Gabe Paul asked him why he was so thrilled. “We scored before the guy was out at first base.” Paul said, “Uh, George, the run doesn’t count because there were two outs.” He then proceeded to give George a copy of the rules on scoring and rules of the game. The only one more clueless than George S. was Mike Burke.

  115. DB - (officially panicked 5/13/09) May 27th, 2009 at 2:51 pm

    Jaba was missing 5mph on a fastball he couldnt locate last night. On top of that his slider wasn’t sharp and looked more like a curve. He was plain human yesterday. No adjustments needed for him

  116. Benny Blanco May 27th, 2009 at 2:52 pm

    SJ44:

    I realize the enormity of joba’s potential. All i’m saying is the stats dont lie with regards to joba.

    If you all had to give joba a letter grade what would it be??? b-

  117. stuart May 27th, 2009 at 2:52 pm

    bob the original the one point you are missing is none of the players on the list you showed throw as hard as wang does…

    again isn’t wang a similar pitcher to derek lowe?

  118. SJ44 May 27th, 2009 at 2:53 pm

    Wave,

    I’m probably not explaining my position well. I’m advocating giving Wang innings tonight and/or a start to get him back on the DL.

    I contend that if he was ok, Girardi would have used him last night.

    Now, they are in a quandry because he has no real value being used in an uneven manner out of the bullpen. It also makes it tougher for them to DL him without pitching.

    That’s why I say, use him tonight. If he gets bombed, then you have another DL situation. I’m sure they can say his hip is acting up or whatever.

    If you see improvement, start him for a game.

    I’m guessing between those two situations, something will occur that will enable them to take him off the active roster, rehab him, and get him back right this time.

    In his current position, its practically impossible to expect him to get fixed because he won’t get enough work to get things going in the right direction.

  119. Trevor May 27th, 2009 at 2:54 pm

    Mike wants to assume “no one heard of Porcello” just because he hasn’t heard of him before. Instead of just admitting you don’t follow the draft or the minor leagues.
    He had no idea last year who David Price was until October.
    Claimed in July 07 just before Joba was called up, that no way “some kid” from the minors was going to help the pen.
    He continues to look more dumber every year.

  120. Benny Blanco May 27th, 2009 at 2:54 pm

    73 baserunners in 43 innings…OUCH!!!

  121. Bob(The Original) May 27th, 2009 at 2:54 pm

    stuart
    May 27th, 2009 at 2:52 pm
    bob the original the one point you are missing is none of the players on the list you showed throw as hard as wang does…

    again isn’t wang a similar pitcher to derek lowe?

    ———————-

    I’m not missing anything. If you don’t strike people out and you don’t have your sinker, you’re not long for the league.

  122. SJ44 May 27th, 2009 at 2:55 pm

    Oh please, the stats DO lie when you don’t use them properly.

    This kid has the 7th best ERA in BASEBALL since he became a starting pitcher. How come Francesa fails to use THAT stat?

    Go back and look at the first 20-22 starts in the careers of Halliday, CC, Beckett and Santana. Joba’s numbers are right in their ranges.

    The stats DO lie when you don’t have any idea how to use them. Which, Francesa doesn’t.

  123. William Buckner May 27th, 2009 at 2:55 pm

    The right thing to do with Wang is get him back up on the horse.

    He needs to start.

    Truth is he was better against the Phillies and worked out of trouble a couple times. Much better then his first three starts.

    I saw him pitch in S/WB. I agree he’s not 100% back yet, but he’s also not the guy he was in April.

    By bringing him back up, there is no other choice. Give him the ball, see what he does. As of now he’s just a wasted roster spot.

  124. Wang in limbo May 27th, 2009 at 2:56 pm

    Pete,
    seeing you write this make me want to cry…some journalist from Taiwan and a member of
    bbwaa said yankees did nothing wrong………yes…….they are always right since they are the boss…..and i know the team ‘s win is beyond a player ‘s career ….but…if they don’t want him to pitch ,why not just let him go….when I saw Eliand said” we are all grown men,you need to adjust to be successful” then I realize that Eliand never had a successful career in major leaguer. I miss Guidry….sorry yankees fan …I am a Wang fan,I miss Guidry to be Wang’s pitching coach…

  125. stuart May 27th, 2009 at 2:56 pm

    i agree bob.. why can’t wang get his sinker back? he will never be a big K guy but he can get his sinker back. the guy is 28, coming off an injury..

    they do not need a 19 game winner but a 15 game winner type would work…

    derek lowe has gone thru significant ups and downs also thru his career…

  126. Coach6423 May 27th, 2009 at 2:56 pm

    Even if he is only going to be a good starter….
    good starter > great reliever

  127. you gotta have faith (right porch giveth and the right porch taketh away) May 27th, 2009 at 2:57 pm

    Jon Ringland,

    we cant argue with the stats?

    cc sabathia- 3.42 era
    aj burnett- 5.28 era
    andy pettite- 3.30 era
    phil hughes- 5.18 era (take out the 1st balt start and its in the 3s)
    Joba- 3.97 era

    joba is fine where he is, and thats as a starter.

  128. Sorc May 27th, 2009 at 2:57 pm

    Joba has a 1.61 WHIP. 71 baserunners in 46 innings.

    If anything, his 3.89 ERA is very misleading. Hitters have no problem getting on base against him.

  129. george May 27th, 2009 at 2:57 pm

    this isn’t extended spring training. If Girardi thought Aceves gave him his best chance to win the May 26 game, then bringing Wang in would’ve been stupid – pacifying a veteran and sacrificing a game.

    and given the way Wang’s pitched so far, on May 26 Wang was the correct choice.

  130. Steve B May 27th, 2009 at 2:59 pm

    “If you all had to give joba a letter grade what would it be??? b-”

    C plus/B minus. WHIP and OBA are ridiculously bad and he’s not getting enough length. Does a good job pitching himself out of trouble as his reasonably good ERA belies his WHIP (an Andy Pettitte trait)and he shows flashes of astounding brilliance that suggest much better things to come.

  131. Wave Your Hat May 27th, 2009 at 2:59 pm

    SJ44-

    I see.

    I know it’s no use crying over spilled milk but why, why did the Yanks have to activate Wang last Friday? I know I don’t have access to all the info the Yanks’ front office has and Girardi has, but it just makes no sense to me.

    Yankee roster management this whole season has just frustrated me no end. Wang, Berroa, 13 pitchers, no offensive OF bench help, they just don’t seem to be optimizing their potential.

  132. Laura - Win together, strike out alone! May 27th, 2009 at 2:59 pm

    “this isn’t extended spring training. If Girardi thought Aceves gave him his best chance to win the May 26 game, then bringing Wang in would’ve been stupid – pacifying a veteran and sacrificing a game.”

    Except that we didn’t win the game so what did we gain?

  133. Jon Ringland May 27th, 2009 at 2:59 pm

    “Jon Ringland,

    we cant argue with the stats?

    cc sabathia- 3.42 era
    aj burnett- 5.28 era
    andy pettite- 3.30 era
    phil hughes- 5.18 era (take out the 1st balt start and its in the 3s)
    Joba- 3.97 era

    joba is fine where he is, and thats as a starter.”

    How come no WHIP or wins? Or innings pitched?

  134. Brandon "Phil Hughes does not shake hands after 8 IP " May 27th, 2009 at 2:59 pm

    Mike is not right IDK why his legion keep on saying that, he isn’t.

    What did I miss ? what did Alex say ? :)

  135. Dan May 27th, 2009 at 3:00 pm

    Mike is right though… the starter stat is pretty misleading

    He had a 2.1 inning outing, a 4.1 inning outing, a couple of 5 inning outings against the Padres and Pirates.

    He has really only had 2 dominant starts as a starter. The Boston game and the Detroit game this year. Let’s not make him more than he is yet. He is a young starter, who like any, will have his ups and downs.

  136. Benny Blanco May 27th, 2009 at 3:00 pm

    Joba has a 1.61 WHIP. 71 baserunners in 46 innings.

    If anything, his 3.89 ERA is very misleading. Hitters have no problem getting on base against him.

    agreed.

  137. Patrick from CT May 27th, 2009 at 3:00 pm

    Wang is in the bullpen now. It is what it is. Line him up with Joba and Phil to be the long man when one of them falters. He’ll get his innings out of the pen until he shows he better than one of them or someone gets hurt.
    No way I pull Phil from the rotation after his last 2 starts.
    Now who we going to get or bring up in place of Berroa?
    How about someone that can play 3rd or the outfield?

  138. Coach6423 May 27th, 2009 at 3:00 pm

    What does WHIP matter if the runners aren’t scoring?

  139. Cookiekaikai May 27th, 2009 at 3:00 pm

    Just trade Wang(hopefully to houston)…NY doesn’t appreciate him

  140. And 1 May 27th, 2009 at 3:01 pm

    Joba has been far from good this year. He has 73 baserunners in 46 innings

    What is his FIP?

  141. five iron from fenway May 27th, 2009 at 3:01 pm

    SJ – You don’t need the history of these pitchers. Look at CCs first starts this year. He sucked. Look at Beckett – he has been the best pitcher and baseball and has pitched to a 5 ERA. Look at Lester – he was (maybe still is) the best young lefty in the game and has a 6 ERA. Look from start to start at any one of the top 20 pitchers in the league and I guarantee there are a few stinkers in there.
    Listen if Joba last night 3 ER, but not enough innings is as bad as it gets sign me up. Better pitchers than Joba have had far, far worse games. It is actually a testament to Joba that when he has absolutely nothing going last night he did not get shellacked and kept the team in the game.
    We cannot analyze Joba start to start. He is what he is – one of the best starting pitchers in baseball.

  142. GreenBeret7 May 27th, 2009 at 3:02 pm

    Give Wang a start against a weaker hitting team and see what he does. Right now, that would be the Mets. He’s had success against them in the past. If he does reasonably well, then it gives him some innings and confidense. If he bombs, it makes going forward a little more clear. Give him a couple of innings tonight and a couple against Cleveland. Hopefully, there’s an improvement. after that, a start against the Mets and reevaluate.

  143. DC 212 May 27th, 2009 at 3:02 pm

    “What does WHIP matter if the runners aren’t scoring?”

    Does Dice-K get the same benefit of doubt? Last year, everyone was talking about how much of a fluke he was and how he will crash down this year.

  144. Johnny D. May 27th, 2009 at 3:03 pm

    They should use him or trade him. I definitely want to see him pitch again.

  145. kasey May 27th, 2009 at 3:03 pm

    stuart,

    we get it. he’s like derek lowe. except i’m not certain lowe was carrying an era of 30+ for six weeks at any point in his career. other than that, sure, they’re identical. whatever helps you.

    joba won’t be effective as a starter or a reliever if he’s throwing 90mph and missing his spots. until he can improve both areas with consistency, the argument is as dead as hideki matsui’s career as an everyday outfielder. (his career as a porn enthusiast continues to thrive.)

  146. Laura - Win together, strike out alone! May 27th, 2009 at 3:04 pm

    What people seem to be missing in this Joba debate is that the guy is only 23 years old. He’s a young pitcher who needs to learn how to pitch. You can’t expect him to be phenomenal right out of the gate. It takes time.

  147. Benny Blanco May 27th, 2009 at 3:04 pm

    Mike made some fair points.

  148. scott May 27th, 2009 at 3:04 pm

    Instead of worrying about Joba, a young 23 yr old starter who is improving…. why not worry about $82 million dollar man AJ Burnett who has a 5.32 ERA?

    Why isin’t anyone killing AJ? He was supposed to be a sure thing to allow Joba to have the growing pains. Now, his growing pains are accentuated because the rest of the rotation isin’t stepping up.

  149. matt May 27th, 2009 at 3:05 pm

    Why not send Joba to AAA to iron out whatever kinks he has and let Wang Fill his Spot on the MLB rotation till he gets back on track? What do you guys think?

  150. Steve B May 27th, 2009 at 3:05 pm

    “What does WHIP matter if the runners aren’t scoring?”

    Because it serves to increase his pitch count, thus necessitating more use of the bullpen than you want. A 4.00 ERA is a lot more valuable if you’re averaging 6.5-6.7 innings per start than if you’re averaging 5.3-5.5 per start like Joba. Bullpens are a crapshoot. Requiring 10-11 outs from them instead of 7-8 is an issue.

  151. GreenBeret7 May 27th, 2009 at 3:05 pm

    The Devil Rays have put their slugging shortstop, Jason Bartlett, on the DL with an ankle sprain.

  152. SJ44 May 27th, 2009 at 3:06 pm

    Joba is going through what ALL young pitchers go through.

    How is he going to learn to be a starting pitcher if he doesn’t start?

    That’s why all the nonsensical stat quoting makes little sense.

    He’s the #5 starter on this staff. THAT’S his role.

    Yet, he has pitched better than starters 2,3, and 4.

    That’s a bad thing?

    This is how you develop young pitchers. If you aren’t patient with it, as Mike and his parrots are, don’t watch his starts.

    Not only is dumb to even think about taking him out of the rotation, they don’t have a guy to replace him in the rotation at the present time.

    This ain’t rocket science. Its basic baseball 101. Something that is too deep for a guy like Francesa to understand.

  153. bru May 27th, 2009 at 3:07 pm

    wang needs to pitch but you can’t pull anybody out of the rotation right now.

    he should follow the next starter from the pen.

  154. Patrick May 27th, 2009 at 3:07 pm

    All this Joba talk is noise, who cares what francesca says?

    Wang on the other hand is a serious issue. Girardi has done a very poor job at managing the pitching staff this season. Give Wang his job back or put him back on the DL, it’s as simple as that.

  155. Kevin in the 908 May 27th, 2009 at 3:07 pm

    Oh good…he is moving off of Joba. I thought that would never occur.

  156. Drills May 27th, 2009 at 3:08 pm

    Right now, we only have ONE reliable starter— CC Sabathia.

    Andy has been OK

    We have 3 unknowns in Burnett, Joba, and Hughes.

    That is why Wang is so important. When he is right, he is another sure thing and deepens the rotation. Pushes everyone back a spot.

    Despite how much money AJ makes, Wang is better than him.

  157. tonyb May 27th, 2009 at 3:08 pm

    I guess what I would do is get Wang a couple of innings tonight and if he pitches well, I’d have him take Hughes next start. That way if he gets blown up early, you can bring The Franchise in so the pen doesn’t get blown out.

    Management brought Wang up, and they owe him a start. They can’t let the man rot with that kind of pedigree. He deserves more respect than that. If he really wasn’t ready to come back, then mgt is showing they are a bunch of fools for panicking and calling him back.

    I have some real questions about this medical and coaching staff of this team. Between the handling of Wang, Bruney’s elbow, AROD’s hip, Jorge trying to gut it out last year, they seem to always make the wrong decision. They remind me of a bunch of old time family doctors shooting from the hip.

    AFAIK, pain is often due to weakness. Weakness leads to real injury. To keep from taking hip shots, Players strength should be measured to establish baselines. Then they should be measured periodically during the season and compared to the baselines so you have a chart. When injuries occur, and a player rehabs, you will know he is ready to return when the pain is gone AND their strength in the joint or muscle is within the previously measured metrics.

    Do we have programs like this?

  158. Christina - new pictures on the blog May 27th, 2009 at 3:08 pm

    Mike was off about Halladay. Only 1 CG so far this year which is low for him.

  159. Andrew May 27th, 2009 at 3:08 pm

    GB you can expect your $1 fine to be collected on next time you are in Tampa.

  160. Steve B May 27th, 2009 at 3:09 pm

    “He is what he is – one of the best starting pitchers in baseball.”

    Potentially.

  161. Albert May 27th, 2009 at 3:09 pm

    Despite the whining, Joba is staying right where he is.

    Cashman would rather miss the playoffs again than move Joba back to the bullpen.

  162. Coach6423 May 27th, 2009 at 3:10 pm

    Joba Chamberlain, was drafted from the University of Nebraska as a Starting Pitcher in 2007. While at the University of Nebraska he was a Starting Pitcher. The 2 seasons Joba spent at Nebraska as a STARTING PITCHER went quite well. Joba posted a 16-7 record, with a 2.82 ERA, a 1.16 WHIP, and striking out 232 batters in 208 innings of work. To me that screams dominant starter.

    In Joba’s whirlwind tour through the minors in 2007 also spent as a starter (minus 2 appearances in SWB), he achieved equal success. He went 9-2 with a 2.45 ERA, a 1.01 WHIP, and striking out 135 in 88.1 innings. To me that screams dominant starter.

    As well all know Joba was moved to a very bad bullpen in 2007 because his innings limit was being approached. He was again dominant. Had the Yankee bullpen not been awful at this time, Joba would have never been placed into the pen. Due to Joe Torre’s stellar record of bullpen management (see Scott Proctor, Luis Vizcaino, Tanyon Sturtze et al.) the dreaded JOBA RULES were put into place. Management knew in their minds, that their prized prospect was not to be dammaged so that he could help the organization for years to come as a STARTING PITCHER, which they continue to maintain will be Joba’s future roll with the Yankees.

    2008, Joba still on an innings limit, is told he is going to start the year in the Yankee Bullpen (keeping his innings down, while helping the Major League club) He again, is dominant, and thoughts of when Joba will be sent down to stretch out begin to surface. They do not send him down however, and announce his pitch count, thus changing other teams approaches at the plate in his first couple of starts. Once the training wheels were off, Joba was dominant. He went 3-1 with a 2.79 ERA, 1.76 WHIP, and struck out 66 in 36.1 innings. He was again dominant.

    Joba has always been a dominant starting pitcher. Because of 40 something dominant innings out of the bullpen due to innings restrictions, some feel he should be used there. But why. Starting pitching has always, and will always be the most important, and sought after position in the game of baseball. There is a reason why Mariano Rivera, the greatest reliever in the history of baseball receives a 40 million dollar contract, while CC Sabathia, and Johan Santana two of the better Starting Pitchers in the game today, make between 130, and 160 million dollars.

    The Yankees have not had a homegrown ACE since Ron Guidry.(Pettite, while very good, was never an Ace). Joba has the potential to be the Yankee’s first, home grown dominant Ace since Ron Guidry. That is absolutely something you do not waste in the bullpen.

  163. Chris from NJ May 27th, 2009 at 3:10 pm

    If Wang isn’t in the long term plans of the organization, then they have to trade him. Though to be fair, if he can adapt to the bullpen, having a sinkerballer out there could have some value to get a DP in a big spot.

    Unless you can get him back on the DL (which would be borderline criminal at this point), he would have to pass through waivers to go to AAA I believe? I’m sure someone would claim him.

  164. kasey May 27th, 2009 at 3:10 pm

    “He’s the #5 starter on this staff. THAT’S his role.

    Yet, he has pitched better than starters 2,3, and 4.

    That’s a bad thing?”

    if you’re looking at it from the perspective of starters 2, 3 and 4, yes.

  165. Kevin in the 908 May 27th, 2009 at 3:10 pm

    I honestly think the problem with Joba is that we are seeing him develop as a starter at the major league level. Normally most 23 year olds are still in the various minor league levels. If Joba fully developed in the minors before coming up originally we would not be having this conversation at all, but those are just my thoughts.

  166. Johnny D. May 27th, 2009 at 3:10 pm

    Why can’t they have a 6 pitcher rotation?

  167. bru May 27th, 2009 at 3:10 pm

    i got porcello & jimenez going for my fantasy team today.

    porcello is up 2-1 & if he pitches well today it will be 4 or 5 great starts in a row with absolutely great era & whip.

  168. Laura - Win together, strike out alone! May 27th, 2009 at 3:10 pm

    “Despite how much money AJ makes, Wang is better than him.”

    Not so far this year. AJ doesn’t have an ERA over 28. AJ has been a disappointment so far, but so has Wang.

  169. vin May 27th, 2009 at 3:10 pm

    The reason everyone makes has made (and continues to make) a big to-do about Joba to the bullpen is because the Yankee ‘pen isn’t of the shut-down variety. Since when is it good practice to throw someone’s valuable potential out the window to fill some other roster need?

    If Cashman could acquire a couple of big BP pieces (or if the guys already there did their jobs), would the Joba to the pen movement be so strong? No, it wouldn’t… the real issue is Cashman’s inability to find a BP that works, thus far anyway.

    Does Tex need to learn to play the OF because there’s a need there? No, he’s doing perfectly fine where he belongs… much like Joba.

  170. Laura - Win together, strike out alone! May 27th, 2009 at 3:11 pm

    “Why can’t they have a 6 pitcher rotation?”

    Because that would take away starts from CC, AJ and Andy.

  171. Benny Blanco May 27th, 2009 at 3:11 pm

    Mikes points

    1) Joba’s era 22nd Al

    2) Joba is getting “baby’d” and his era is 3.97

    3) Other teams are asking their pitchers to go deep in the game and get pounded, whereas, the yankees are pulling joba afte 5,6 innings.

  172. carl May 27th, 2009 at 3:11 pm

    Wang is not better than AJ.

  173. 7*7 May 27th, 2009 at 3:11 pm

    When Wang comes back, Hughes goes back to Scranton.

    End of story.

  174. Wave Your Hat May 27th, 2009 at 3:11 pm

    No way I take Hughes out of the rotation as long as he continues to pitch to the level of his last three starts.

  175. CountryClub May 27th, 2009 at 3:11 pm

    This is where some of you guys need to be intelligent. Joba is learning on the job. His WHIP is so high because he nibbles when he shouldnt. He makes mistakes like all young pitchers make. The reason his ERA is not in line with his WHIP is because he has nasty stuff and when he has to get an out he goes after the guy and gets it.

    Hughes is learning the same thing. If you get 2 stikes on someone there is no reason to throw 2 waste pitches. Just trust your stuff and throw the ball over the plate.

  176. Don May 27th, 2009 at 3:12 pm

    A healthy Wang is better than AJ, absolutely

    But Wang isin’t healthy.

  177. randy l. May 27th, 2009 at 3:12 pm

    given the predicament the yankees have put themselves in with wang, if i were the manager, i’d use him as much as possible to either get a pitcher who could pitch or a pitcher who couldn’t.

    if he can’t , back to the disabled list and then starting for scranton.

    wang being in limbo like this is cashman just making bad decisions .

    i’m not going to get into it now, but the yankees have been messing with wang for a while now, but this is the ultimate mismanagement at the present time.

    a gm is supposed to make decisions and be decisive. doing nothing and letting wang sit is rediculous.

  178. kasey May 27th, 2009 at 3:12 pm

    what do all the “trade wang” folks think the yankees would get, exactly, for a possibly-injured starting pitcher carrying an astronomical ERA? i’ll help you with a hint.

    nothing. he is worth nothing right now. yet another reason he needs to get right.

  179. Tom in N.J. May 27th, 2009 at 3:12 pm

    Joba is the 5th starter. This year is all about getting him ready to be a horse.

    Look up the age 23 seasons for guys like Guidry, Gibson, and Kofax.

  180. Mark D May 27th, 2009 at 3:13 pm

    The Joba conversation is useless. Anyone who does not understand the situation by now does not understand baseball. Let’s all remember he’s the #5 starter.
    The rotation needs more out of #2 and #3. That means get Wang healthy or (if he’s already healthy) get him back in the rotation. That means light a fire under Burnett or offer to let him renegotiate his contract at the end of every season or tell him he can pie Girardi in the face if he pitches well, whatever gets him going.

  181. bru May 27th, 2009 at 3:13 pm

    6 starters screws up the rotation as far as days off.it also complicates things.

    bullpens have also become to complicated.8th inning guy,closer,lefty,this,that.

    what happened to a starter going 7,8th inning guy,closer?

  182. GreenBeret7 May 27th, 2009 at 3:13 pm

    Baltimore will most likely be cutting Chad Moeller or Gregg Zaun loose after this week. Should NYY try to sign one and get rid of Cash, who has been totally unacceptable on defense or offense?

  183. you gotta have faith (right porch giveth and the right porch taketh away) May 27th, 2009 at 3:14 pm

    John Ringland,

    joba -whip 1.57
    andy – whip 1.40
    hughes- whip 1.55
    cc- whip 1.14
    burnett- whip 1.43

    stats can be turned into what ever you want them to say, but if your going to tell me that joba should be in the bp b/c of this whip then im sorry but thats not a good reason to me.

    how about we give this kid a good amount of starts this year until we declare him a failure are a starter?

  184. corona May 27th, 2009 at 3:14 pm

    When did Burnett win 19 games 2 years in a row with a 3.66 ERA? And Wang was 8-2 last year on his way to another 19 win season.

    Stop looking at Burnett’s “stuff”. He has never been a better pitcher than Wang before this year.

  185. Laura - Win together, strike out alone! May 27th, 2009 at 3:14 pm

    “Does Tex need to learn to play the OF because there’s a need there? No, he’s doing perfectly fine where he belongs… much like Joba.”

    The only reason this is an issue now is that Joba was at one time a very dominant relief pitcher. If he had never done any time in the bullpen, no one would be trying to move him back there. Francessa and the other nut jobs can’t shake the memories of Joba blowing people away in the 8th. They know that our current BP is lacking and their first thought is to put Joba there. WRONG!!! You don’t waste someone with Joba’s talent in the bullpen.

  186. DB - (officially panicked 5/13/09) May 27th, 2009 at 3:15 pm

    Steve B, then you should pay more attention to innings pitched. You can have a WHIP of 3.00 and throw only ten pitches an inning. All these things are relative, but ERA with the amount of innings pitched is the end all.

  187. Guard May 27th, 2009 at 3:16 pm

    Joba has gotten extremely lucky this year

    Which is fine. But don’t kill someone like Dice-K who had the same line last year.

  188. Jon Ringland May 27th, 2009 at 3:17 pm

    “how about we give this kid a good amount of starts this year until we declare him a failure are a starter?”

    I never once declared him a failed starter. Rather, I declared that he is more effective as a reliever.

  189. Patrick May 27th, 2009 at 3:17 pm

    I agree with randy’s take except Girardi deserves some blame as well.

  190. Laura - Win together, strike out alone! May 27th, 2009 at 3:17 pm

    “what do all the “trade wang” folks think the yankees would get, exactly, for a possibly-injured starting pitcher carrying an astronomical ERA? i’ll help you with a hint.

    nothing. he is worth nothing right now. yet another reason he needs to get right.”

    Oh, you are quite mistaken on that. If we were to put Wang on waivers, he’d be gone in 3 seconds. Why do you think the Yankees didn’t try that when he first ran into trouble? They know that they’d lose him in a heartbeat. Wang may be struggling, but he is still seen as a valuable commodity to many teams.

  191. E-gawa May 27th, 2009 at 3:18 pm

    Wang isn’t the kind of pitcher you want pitching out of the bullpen.. It’s one reason why the Yankees didn’t start him off in the bullpen during the beginning of his career. What has to happen is they’re going to have to play a switcheroo with him and Hughes (or Joba :) ) for a start or two. If it still doesn’t work out… Worst case senario.. They’ll have to fake another injury throw him on the 60 day and simulate games the rest of the season. There are no other options.. You don’t want to release him. You would be an idiot if you traded him when his value is rock bottom and You can’t have him just sitting around and wasting a spot.

  192. Andrew May 27th, 2009 at 3:18 pm

    How has Cash been unacceptable on defense? He caught an 8-inning shutout of Hughes, and was absolutely partly responsible for getting him through the 2nd inning when they had 2nd and 3rd nobody out. He hasn’t gunned people down or gotten as many hits as Cervelli but he’s pretty good at blocking the ball and has soft hands behind the plate.

    Granted, he will be getting DFA’ed when Posada is ready to go, or soon there after, but I don’t see the point in signing Moeller or Zaun unless some other team claims Cash and the Yankees need a veteran at Scranton.

  193. bru May 27th, 2009 at 3:18 pm

    CountryClub
    May 27th, 2009 at 3:11 pm
    This is where some of you guys need to be intelligent. Joba is learning on the job. His WHIP is so high because he nibbles when he shouldnt. He makes mistakes like all young pitchers make. The reason his ERA is not in line with his WHIP is because he has nasty stuff and when he has to get an out he goes after the guy and gets it.

    Hughes is learning the same thing. If you get 2 stikes on someone there is no reason to throw 2 waste pitches. Just trust your stuff and throw the ball over the plate.

    ———————————————————–

    perfectly said.

    young pitchers need to learn how to pitch & that can happen by failing & pitching only.

    francessa judging joba on such a small sample shows he is ignorant & clueless.

    pelfrey who francessa just praised a minute ago struggled horribly & learned to become a very good pitcher by pitching & making mistakes but learning from them.

    this is why francessa is clueless.

  194. Matt May 27th, 2009 at 3:20 pm

    Joba had a 2.92 ERA and a 1.30 WHIP last year when he was a reliever before moving to the rotation

    Hardly dominant. He is better than Phil Coke, but he is not some lights out reliever either.

  195. Patrick May 27th, 2009 at 3:20 pm

    Joba hasn’t really been lucky this year but he has gotten a ton of help from his fielders.

    BABIP – .328
    FIP – 4.91

    Yikes..

  196. Nick in SF May 27th, 2009 at 3:21 pm

    Good afternoon. I’m going OT from the Wang-trovery to mention that the UEFA Champions League Final is underway on ESPN2 right now. It’s Manchester United vs. FC Barcelona and Barca is up 1-0 about 34 minutes into the first half.

    The Champions League is a tournament between the previous season’s top clubs from all the big and not-so-big leagues in Europe. Imagine, if you will, that our MLB was just one of several top-quality baseball leagues around the hemisphere. Then imagine that the top clubs from each country’s league played in a tourney (don’t go so far as to imagine that the Yankees would not have qualified for it after last season :( ). That’s what the Champions League is.

    Man U. and Barcelona are two titanic sides and both won their country’s leagues this season, so this match is big, big, big.

    And now you have… the rest of the story.

  197. DB - (officially panicked 5/13/09) May 27th, 2009 at 3:21 pm

    Burnett has lights out dominant stuff when he is locating, getting calls, and is throwing his curve for strikes and in the dirt. IF he can’t locate he becomes mediocre.

    Wang on the other hand can throw 20 sinkers that people pound into the dirt and he gets easy outs. It’s like comparing apples to oranges.

    A pitcher isnt worth his weight in salt unless he can put the ball where he wants it and get the call on the close ones

  198. you gotta have faith (right porch giveth and the right porch taketh away) May 27th, 2009 at 3:21 pm

    Jon Ringland,

    well, we will never agree then lol to each his own i guess.

  199. bru May 27th, 2009 at 3:23 pm

    the problem with wand taking hughes next start is what if hughes is coming into his own?what happens if hughes pitches another gem??

    now you have to start raising your eyebrows.

    we need to see if hughes can put 3 good starts together.

    right now is the worst time to pull hughes.

    very tough position.

    wang should of been left in the minors to put a few good games together.

  200. Glove Man May 27th, 2009 at 3:23 pm

    I don’t blame Girardi… Cashman hamstrung him

    He gave him a rehab assignment and is asking him to find him work while still trying to win games

    If you make Girardi carry Wang then you need to give him specific instructions. From Girardi’s standpoint, winning games comes first, development second. As it should be. Cashman should tell Girardi how he wants him to be used and not wash his hands on the situation and ask Girardi/Eliand to fix him.

  201. Laura - Win together, strike out alone! May 27th, 2009 at 3:24 pm

    “Hardly dominant. He is better than Phil Coke, but he is not some lights out reliever either.”

    You must not have been watching those games. Joba was lights out 99% of the time as a reliever. The stats may not show that, but as many have pointed out, stats can be deceiving.

  202. GreenBeret7 May 27th, 2009 at 3:24 pm

    Benny Blanco
    May 27th, 2009 at 3:11 pm
    Mikes points

    1) Joba’s era 22nd Al

    2) Joba is getting “baby’d” and his era is 3.97

    3) Other teams are asking their pitchers to go deep in the game and get pounded, whereas, the yankees are pulling joba afte 5,6 innings.

    ————————————————————

    Somebody needs to ask Francessa if the names Francisco Liriano, Scott Kazmir, Kerry Wood, Mark Prior, Al Leiter, Gil Patterson or Ruby Begonia means anything to him. The first six are or were young and abused arms, and they and their teams are or have paid for that stupidity now. The last name is well known, too.

  203. Harold May 27th, 2009 at 3:24 pm

    Joba has a 1.60 WHIP, 73 baserunners in 46 innings

    He also has less than a 2:1 K-BB ratio (46-25)

    And a 4.91 FIP last I checked.

    The fact that this guy is the 2nd best starter on the team is an indictment on the rest of the rotation rather than a praise of Joba’s dominance.

  204. kasey May 27th, 2009 at 3:26 pm

    a valuable commodity? an injured pitcher who can’t throw the ONE pitch that made him effective with any consistency?

    yes, he’d get claimed off waivers but i assume if people want wang traded they’d like to see the yankees get something of value in return, correct? right now, that’s not happening.

    personally, i hope they do trade him at some point. but not now.

  205. Jon Ringland May 27th, 2009 at 3:26 pm

    “well, we will never agree then lol to each his own i guess.”

    The first thing we’ve agreed on today :)

  206. bdog375 May 27th, 2009 at 3:28 pm

    This whole thing disgusts me. Wang is one of my favorite Yankees. I understand his getting sent down to iron things out. But to leave him hanging without even telling him what he could expect this next week is absolute BS.

  207. murphydog May 27th, 2009 at 3:28 pm

    Is Wang still rep’d by Alan Nero? Can’t understand this one bit. Sounds like Wang needs to get a new agent. The arbitration was blown and that is serious damage to the relationship. Don’t know if Nero was involved, but whoever it was really screwed the pooch.

    It also seems to me that nobody is speaking up for Wang. Remember CC’s agent (Greg Genske?) asking the Brewers to take it easy with Sabathia last year? CC told his agent to shut up, but if I’m the agent, people will know I’m all about my guy and his well-being. Assuming that our own randy l. (along with Neil Allen) is right about the new arm angle, what are they doing to Wang?

    I also cannot shake the feeling that the language barrier is a real issue with Wang and the Yankees. Could the agent help there? Ask Arn Tellem who reps Matsui.

    Just seems like Wang is not a squeaky wheel, so no oil. See?

  208. Nick in SF May 27th, 2009 at 3:29 pm

    The Invasion of the Joba Snatchers has infected the Woe-is-Wang thread?

    Double pain.

  209. Wave Your Hat May 27th, 2009 at 3:30 pm

    “Joba has a 1.60 WHIP, 73 baserunners in 46 innings
    He also has less than a 2:1 K-BB ratio (46-25)
    And a 4.91 FIP last I checked.
    The fact that this guy is the 2nd best starter on the team is an indictment on the rest of the rotation rather than a praise of Joba’s dominance.”

    You want to cherry pick abstruse stats, then give Joba credit for a park-adjusted ERA+ of 116. That means he’s been significantly better than the average starter. Pretty good for a pitcher his age.

  210. GreenBeret7 May 27th, 2009 at 3:30 pm

    bru
    May 27th, 2009 at 3:23 pm
    the problem with wand taking hughes next start is what if hughes is coming into his own?what happens if hughes pitches another gem??

    now you have to start raising your eyebrows.

    we need to see if hughes can put 3 good starts together.

    right now is the worst time to pull hughes.

    very tough position.

    wang should of been left in the minors to put a few good games together.

    ————————————————————

    Who said anything about Hughes next start going to Wang? Give him Pettitte’s or Chamberlain’s next start with either of those two coming in if there are problems. It could give Pettitte a breather and it would help control some of Chamberlain’s innings. Just don’t have them come into the middle of an inning.

  211. GC May 27th, 2009 at 3:34 pm

    Peter – you grossly overrate Wang for some reason. The guy is not a big game pitcher (see playoff record debacle) and can’t manufacture outs. Sure he rings up stats vs bad teams in the summer doldrums. Whoop-de-doo. He’s a #3 or #4 pitcher who shouldn’t start in a 5 game series for NY.

    Ever heard him interviewed… maybe he should learn English & communication. Maybe he’s a headcase we have no idea.

    Then he can tell his players reps to stop the silly “options” nonsense that limit the club & player… let the guy pitch where he blongs in AAA for a while (fyi he’s out of options).

    Either way Wang is overrated & not really needed this year.

  212. Nick in SF May 27th, 2009 at 3:34 pm

    murphydog: randy was right that Wang was throwing from the wrong arm slot in this distastrous early starts, but randy was *not* right when he theorized that the Yankees were *deliberately* changing Wang’s arm slot and mechanics.

    This was addressed on Sunday; Sam Borden asked Dave Eiland about it and Eiland said that the release point was still too high. Now maybe there is a conspiracy/coverup at play, but most likely not.

  213. Dutch Hugo May 27th, 2009 at 3:36 pm

    Pete, you hit the nail on the head. I’ve been thinking their treatment of Wang insane since they announced they were putting him in long relief. But I wouldn’t necessarily blame Wang for how horrible he’s pitched this season. He obviously wasn’t right coming out of spring training. Isn’t that someone’s job to notice that? Like, the pitching coach? Yet they threw him out there, flushing three games down the toilet (tell me that 3 games won’t matter at the end of the year) and blowing out the bullpen at the start of the year. Then they announce that he doesn’t have the arm strength, or hip strength, and disable him. Unbelievable. How is Eiland not fired for this malpractice? And why can’t they disable him now, and send him to the minors for rehab? This is all related to his injury, fercryinoutloud! Here’s a 19-game winner, who was on his way to that type of season again last year when he was hurt, and the “brain trust” screws up and they just bury him at the back of the bullpen, where he gets no work and has no hope of getting back to where he was? It’s unbelievable, really. They would never do this to Hughes or Chamberlain, let alone Burnett or CC or even pavano, as you point out. Yet Wang has proven himself to be an ace, one of the best pitchers in the league in 2006 and 2007 and again last year before his injury. It’s amazing, it really is. But hey, it’s not like the Yanks could use an innings-eating, 19-game winner near the top of the rotation, right? I don’t understand how the press isn’t making a bigger deal out of this and making these guys more accountable. We, the fans, want this team to be the best, and one of their very best pitchers is being mysteriously put out to pasture at age 29 because of their baseball malpractice. It’s mind boggling.

  214. Patrick May 27th, 2009 at 3:36 pm

    Wave, a 4.91 FIP is pretty bad

    Honestly though it’s too early to judge Joba’s performance this year. He’s been up and down but about what I expected in his first full season of starting.

  215. sw May 27th, 2009 at 3:38 pm

    Ugh, Joba is the most overhyped Yankee. I cannot believe the amount of bandwidth/ink/airspace devoted to talking about him. And he is not the second best starter on the team. Like people have said, ERA has to be put into the context of innings pitched, WHIP, K/BB, and he hasn’t even pitched enough innings to qualify for the ERA title. And for every Halladay or Greinke that was a disaster at a young age, there’s probably a Mussina or Clemens that was already a lights out All-Star at the same age.

  216. GreenBeret7 May 27th, 2009 at 3:39 pm

    GC
    May 27th, 2009 at 3:34 pm
    Peter – you grossly overrate Wang for some reason. The guy is not a big game pitcher (see playoff record debacle) and can’t manufacture outs. Sure he rings up stats vs bad teams in the summer doldrums. Whoop-de-doo. He’s a #3 or #4 pitcher who shouldn’t start in a 5 game series for NY.

    Ever heard him interviewed… maybe he should learn English & communication. Maybe he’s a headcase we have no idea.

    Then he can tell his players reps to stop the silly “options” nonsense that limit the club & player… let the guy pitch where he blongs in AAA for a while (fyi he’s out of options).

    Either way Wang is overrated & not really needed this year.

    ————————————————————

    How come people like you keep harping on Wang’s last two PS starts and chose to ignore his first two? Is it stupidity or the ability to cherrypick stats?

  217. E-gawa May 27th, 2009 at 3:39 pm

    “Who said anything about Hughes next start going to Wang? Give him Pettitte’s or Chamberlain’s next start with either of those two coming in if there are problems. It could give Pettitte a breather and it would help control some of Chamberlain’s innings. Just don’t have them come into the middle of an inning.”

    Pettitte pitches 6-7 innings every start.. he’s only had one start where he’s gone less all year. I wouldn’t replace a Pettitte start when our Bullpen is being over worked by the young ones.

  218. wang in limbo May 27th, 2009 at 3:40 pm

    GC,
    without,yankees should’ve missd the playoffs in 2006,2007…or maybe 2005

  219. ray (sox fan) May 27th, 2009 at 3:40 pm

    “Should NYY try to sign one and get rid of Cash, who has been totally unacceptable on defense or offense?”

    Good afternoon GB. In spite of last night your Yankees have been on too much of a roll to my liking so I want you to do something about that. :)

    On a more serious note I am not surprised about Cash. After all the Sox had him last year and ended up letting him go. The Sox aren’t exactly “catching rich”, so the fact that they let him go was an indicator of his ability or lack there of.

  220. Wave Your Hat May 27th, 2009 at 3:41 pm

    Patrick-

    I know, I know. But given what I believe about the Yanks’ overall team defense, that 4.91 FIP against the 3.97 ERA just doesn’t make any sense to me. I’ve seen Joba’s games, his being bailed out consistently by great defense doesn’t jive with what I’ve seen. Sometimes, with stats, you need to look under the hood, so to speak.

    I also just thought that if people were trotting out negative sabermetric stats, I’d balance it by trotting out positive ones. And a 116 ERA+ is on the positive side.

  221. Frank May 27th, 2009 at 3:41 pm

    It is ridiculous what they are doing to Wang. If Hughes pitched badly the other night, he would’ve been back no questions asked.

    but since he didn’t….every is like, wait a minute….

    Wang gets no respect. He is our #2 pitcher. he needs to pitch.

  222. Evan May 27th, 2009 at 3:42 pm

    I hope Wang goes to the minors and stays there with Kei Igawa. The league has caught up to him and while he has potential to be a quality starter, he cannot be trusted. Even in his good years….he killed the team in the postseason – see Game 1 and Game 4 vs. Indians. He gets shelled on the road and in when his sinker doesn’t sink he is an AAA pitcher at best. Good riddance.

  223. Dutch Hugo May 27th, 2009 at 3:42 pm

    GC, you’re an idiot. Wang had ONE bad playoff game. In ’05, in the playoffs, he went 6.2 innings, gave up 6 hits and 1 earned run. in ’06 in the playoffs, he went 6.2, gave up 8 hits and 3 earned. And to try to dismiss his fabulous seasons in ’06 and ’07 as “ringing up stats against bad teams” is ludicrous. He has been the picture of consistency since the Yanks called him up in ’05, going 19-6 with a 3.63 in ’06 and 19-7 with a 3.70 in ’07. And he was 8-2 with a 4.07 when he was hurt last year, well on his way to another very good season. How many other pitchers out there can you count on for 19 wins a season? He was their ACE, fercryinoutloud. I think you’re real hatred for Wang is revealed in your snide little “why can’t he learn English” remark. Very telling.

  224. Dutch Hugo May 27th, 2009 at 3:46 pm

    Murphydog, you are on to something. Wang seems like he has no one in his corner working for him, and is being totally screwed by the “brain trust.”

  225. randy l. May 27th, 2009 at 3:47 pm

    “randy was right that Wang was throwing from the wrong arm slot in this distastrous early starts, but randy was not right when he theorized that the Yankees were deliberately changing Wang’s arm slot and mechanics.”

    nick in sf-

    you think i’m going to let you get away with that one so easy.

    here’s the deal. i knew the arm slot was all wrong. either the yankees were changing it or not. i intentionally took the position they were changing it to highlight the issue. it worked. within one day of lively debate eiland was answering the question posed by sam borden.

    if i hadn’t taken an extreme controversial position, would we have gotten a definitive answer from eiland?

    the pipeline has been opened with wang and the blog. what we say here will get back to the yankees and even wang indirectly.

    the fact is something is drastically wrong with wang and he’s not being handled well. the more of a spotlight we all can put on the issue of how he’s being fixed the quiker he’ll be fixed.

    and don’t forget that peter a wrote a book about wang and knows him very well.

    this post by peter is just part of the process of discovering what’s going on with him. i think we need to see him pitch again and often for us to have any idea where he’s at.

  226. Patrick May 27th, 2009 at 3:51 pm

    Wave,

    I agree, we haven’t seen great defense to explain the huge difference in ERA and FIP. Howeveer, I think it can be explained by him being bailed out by double plays. Joba has been okay thus far, not great but not bad.

  227. GreenBeret7 May 27th, 2009 at 3:52 pm

    ray (sox fan)
    May 27th, 2009 at 3:40 pm
    “Should NYY try to sign one and get rid of Cash, who has been totally unacceptable on defense or offense?”

    Good afternoon GB. In spite of last night your Yankees have been on too much of a roll to my liking so I want you to do something about that.

    On a more serious note I am not surprised about Cash. After all the Sox had him last year and ended up letting him go. The Sox aren’t exactly “catching rich”, so the fact that they let him go was an indicator of his ability or lack there of.

    ————————————————————

    afternoon, Ray. Hope all is well with you and the (sox fan) family. Great to see you back on here and trashing the yankees. I know that you say you respecy and fear the Yankees, but, I can read between the lines. Hope you poodle has 5 litters of ugly mongrels, just like Killer.

    Speaking of catching, do you think the Sox will stay with Kottrass or go after a Cash, Zahn or Moeller?

    I was going to ask you about Sox rumors on the upcoming draft, but, I saw earlier that you said you weren’t up on the details.

    What I just read earlier was that the hot commodity was corner infielders. Other than Anderson, who do you guys have? Here’s an article on it. Read it at your own risk.

    http://mlb.mlb.com/news/articl.....8;c_id=mlb

  228. jennifer May 27th, 2009 at 3:53 pm

    Glad to see 3 losses returned this place to ‘normal’.

  229. NYYanksFan May 27th, 2009 at 3:58 pm

    “i think we need to see him pitch again and often for us to have any idea where he’s at.”

    We? Is that the royal “we” or do you have authority in this? They need to see him pitch, the only choices “we” have is whether to cheer or boo.

  230. Nick in SF May 27th, 2009 at 3:59 pm

    First of all, the game thread is up :arrow:

    Second of all, no dice, randy. The arm slot issue had been discussed *many* times as far back as Wang’s early starts, and the F/X data was published elsewhere. The idea that it suddenly got to the Yankees on Sunday because it was being discussed here on Saturday is… funny.

    And the idea that you lie in your posts because of some master plan is… well, I don’t know what that is. Just tell the truth!

  231. Chris from NJ May 27th, 2009 at 4:06 pm

    to be fair, if wang has a few shutout innings out of the pen, we’ll all be saying he’s back and send hughes back to AAA!!!

  232. Doreen May 27th, 2009 at 4:08 pm

    murphydog

    I’ve said many times here that people are underestimating the language/culture barrier that is a real impediment in Wang’s situation. Because this is not a situation that can be covered by regular baseball jargon. We’re talking nuanced language here that deals with imprecise descriptions of what’s happening with his body. It’s huge. I assume he has an interpreter, but you do have to wonder what is getting lost in the translation.

    That’s one problem.

    The other problem. Well that was the knee-jerk overreaction the Yankees had to Joba getting clipped in the knee. No plan on what to do next.

    The rotation is already out of whack. Hughes and Joba should not be pitching back to back. But you can’t put CMW between those two at all, if he’s not right. So, they’re going to have to do something about getting that rotation where it needs to be. That will actually help the bullpen, too. (I know Hughes went 8 innings this time, but that is not what ordinarily occurs.)

    SJ44, while I agree that Wang should pitch tonight – I really don’t know what the feasibility of that is. You’ve got a pitcher, AJ Burnett, who has been having some inconsistency issues. If he’s got another B-B+ game tonight, then, yeah, you can throw Wang in there, maybe sacrificing this game (and the series). But AJ was quote in the the Star Ledger this morning as saying he’s extremely disappointed that he hasn’t been able to pitch the number of innings he usually does. He’s annoyed with himself. Now, what if he’s pitching an A-A+ game tonight and going 8 innings would be a breeze for him? Do you take him out?

    They have an off day tomorrow.

    It’s really a bit of a logistical mess right now. And that’s not even counting the fact that Wang is kind of moping over this – not that he’s not justified a littled to do some moping, but he’s got to be part of the solution, not add to the problem. Be more assertive. Insist on figuring out a way that will work for himself and the team. I would think that taking the initiative to talk to Girardi was a step in this direction for him.

    I don’t want to lose Wang, either to negligence or trade. He’s been a valuable member of this team, notwithstanding the 2 poor starts in the playoffs. It happens. I believe even Tom Seaver lost a playoff game. But Wang gets this team TO the playoffs, you know? I can’t believe people scoffing at two 19-win seasons and last season he was justing getting really heated up when the injury happened. There’s an awful lot of people within the Yankees organization that can take responsbility for their not advancing in the playoffs the last few years.

    So, bottom line, I feel bad for Wang, BUT that does nothing. A workable solution has to be found. They may just have to get him on a mound for an inning or two, “see something they don’t like” and put him back on the DL. Problem, if not solved, well, addressed for the time being. He needs to pitch.

  233. frankiedue May 27th, 2009 at 4:09 pm

    Can’t they make up an injury and put him back on the DL so he can pitch in AAA?

  234. LathamJoe May 27th, 2009 at 4:13 pm

    The biggest mistake made by the Yankee brass with The Wangster was bringing him back to the MLB roster – clearly too soon and a classic panic move! One doesn’t have to be a genius to see he is not sufficiently rehabbed to contribute successfully at the MLB level – look at his velocity (91 MPH) and inconsistency with location – especially with his Bread & Butter sinker. His slider and change are still works in progress, so if he doesn’t have the sinker consistently in good location – he’s Sidney Ponson/Shawn Chacon/Aaron small all over again!

    Start Wang? Yeah and be down 6-0, 8-0 by the 3rd inning? Bring him in relief last night?
    Tied at 3-3? Lots of luck! He should work a few blowout games and if he can’t get batters out, create an injury so he can rehab for 60 days.

  235. BG90027 May 27th, 2009 at 4:14 pm

    “How come people like you keep harping on Wang’s last two PS starts and chose to ignore his first two? Is it stupidity or the ability to cherrypick stats?”

    Exactly, he had an awful playoff series against Cleveland but had a 2.70 ERA and a WHIP of 1.13 across the previous two years in the playoffs. I don’t get it either.

    I think Pete’s overstating his case. Wang has been awful this year and the team is in a hard situation of trying to figure out how to straighten him out while still trying to win games. Wang has been back on the team for less than a week and somehow they are treating him worse than Pavano? I do think they need to get him some work and I would have put him out there last night rather than Aceves. But try to have a little perspective here. He’ll get in a game soon. He has to or he’s a completely wasted roster spot and there’s no chance he gets better without work. Whatever you think of Cashman and Girardi, they have to know that.

  236. Jason.Gu May 27th, 2009 at 4:15 pm

    Wang has already proved he is belong to the Major, I think Joe need to consider seriously about Wang’s situation…and how he feel about what they do for him….
    It’s so radiculus to let a twin-19 Game winner to stay in the bullpen, he is really need some outing to improve his arm-slot and mechanics, if the Yankees still want to trust the prospect, I would suggest to trade Wang to aquire what they want, but as I know, they just want EVERYONE to be a CY YOUNG pitcher, if you are not, sorry, it seems no stage for you to perform………..anyway, thank you defend for Wang..

  237. The Ghost May 27th, 2009 at 4:18 pm

    I asked the manager (on Monday) and he said to wait,” Wang said. “I just want to pitch. I know I can pitch like I did before.”

    Then he paused.

    “I didn’t forget how.”

    ============

    wow, that gives me deja vufrom Mike Mussina 2 years ago

  238. Ovaltine May 27th, 2009 at 4:26 pm

    I am not too worried about it,

    Given the destined fate of injury bugs for Yankees, Wang will soon find a spot!

  239. G May 27th, 2009 at 4:27 pm

    One of the best articles written. Great job.

  240. BK May 27th, 2009 at 4:29 pm

    ERA does not matter. Losing a game 0-1 does not matter. What matters is wins. Wang had 19, 19 in 2 full years. He is not a disaster waiting to happen. But yes, some days he will get shelled because he is a contact pitcher.

    What he does produce is a lot of wins for a starter. And the fact I have not read yet, is he goes deep into games. He lasts to the 8 – 9th inning.

  241. Joe T. May 27th, 2009 at 4:42 pm

    what is wang with wang?!

  242. EY May 27th, 2009 at 5:06 pm

    Wang should see some action tonight if AJ blows up again. Give him some innings in a blow-out.

  243. Jon May 27th, 2009 at 5:16 pm

    I’m glad you mentioned this. I think they definitely give the Wanger the short end of the stick in general. He’s everything that a fan should like – successful, home-grown and not a showy player. But since he doesn’t really talk much to the media (due to the language barrier), I think he’s not as visible and obvious. I hope he bounces back this year!

  244. GC May 27th, 2009 at 5:33 pm

    wang homers – sorry but you (like Peter) are infatuated by a “homegrown” (lol yanks probably tossed the unsigned FA the most $$$). 19 games in regular season is just a stat and nullified you choke in 2 starts in one series.

    Playoffs – best game 2005 one hit per inning, 1 run thru 6.2… woop-de-doo you guys make it sound like larsen’s perfect game (he pitched well enough for a LOSS btw). 2006 3 runs & 8 hits thru 6.2. Career 7.58 ERA, 28 hits in 19 innings. ROTF.

    Plus his lack of a strikout pitch creates more possible errors from a poor defensive team overall. Read Peter’s next blog how Jeter has no range. Yadda, yadda, yadda.

    With our pitching situation Wang is an afterthought (assuming no injuries). CC #1, AJ #2, Andy #3 (#2 if you want to split up CC/AJ), Joba #4 … #5 is whatever Wang/Hughes. Wang was our “ace” by lack of having a legit #1 and #2 pitcher on the club (due to cashman’s deficiencies).

  245. E-PRO May 27th, 2009 at 5:39 pm

    jldraw
    “Yes I know Wang has won nineteen games two years in a row but I think when it comes to Wang The Yankees know what they have from him and they don’t see him developing beyond what he is right now”

    He won’t develop beyond 19 wins? That’s fine by me. I’ll take 19 wins every year.

  246. SCRANTON May 27th, 2009 at 6:05 pm

    Wang is my favorite Yankee. All you haters need to stop. Evan you have no clue what you are talking about. Yeah he did not show up in the P.S. but we would not have gotten there without him.

  247. Dutch Hugo May 27th, 2009 at 6:16 pm

    Hey GC, how many pitchers in all the major leagues won as many games as Wang between 2006 and 2007, before he got hurt last year? Winning 19 games in the regular season is “just a stat”… ? People like you use stats when you want to and when they’re inconvenient to you call them “just stats.” Ask Torre or anyone on those teams how important he was. He was the guy they counted on every single time out to pitch deep into games and knew they had a great chance to win when he was on the mound. He would have been an “ace” on just about every team. And we probably don’t even make the playoffs without him those years. Not to mention 2005 when he came up when the Yanks were 11-19 and helped turn things around. Ask Girardi or any other manager if they’d take 6.2 innngs, one run in a playoff game from their ace and they’ll say yes, any day, from any pitcher. “Woop-de-doo”

  248. wewillsee May 27th, 2009 at 6:16 pm

    Wang loves New York too much. That why he cant push yankees management too much. In Taiwanese culture, he purchase his first house means that is home in USA. He just listen and work hard but quest. And now.. he’s just sitting there and get little chance even beina a reliever. Shame on yankees treat him like that a pitcher with 54 wins in 4 years and gets paid 5 millions totally.

    Some think yankees should not treat him like Ikawa. I dont think so. Ikawa costs yankees a 46million contract and get 2 wins. With that, yankees treat Wang like shits.

    Wang blew up 2007 postseason… So what. A-rod blew up every postseasons as a yankees and everyone knows that. Guess what, he got a 300 millions dollars contract.

    so many people say that Wang has to prove that he will not play 1 inning 8 era after he tossed 13 innings scoreless in 3A and 3 innings 2 era in major. I dont think that 3 innings are good. but how can he prove? You cant keep him relieve and tell him that you should prove you’ll not give 8 runs in 1st inning because he nevre do that. where’s 1st innings.

    I dont think the issue now is who should be sent away. In my opinion,it all comes to that is yankees. Yankees cant lose a game even past games no mention to future. That is all about yankees. Not sox, not dodgers, not any other major team.

    All I can say is give him a shoot and you can really know he can or not. Otherwise, trade him and let his career extend.

  249. EricNS May 27th, 2009 at 6:29 pm

    Maybe Randy “the jerk” Levine does not like him for salary reasons

  250. wewillsee May 27th, 2009 at 6:30 pm

    Didnt A-rod blew up every playoffs in yankees. Dont talk about 2007 playoffs always. A player plays #4 hitter and gives you 1 hr 1 rbi. Guess what yankees gave him a 300 millions dollars contract. What a wonderful world.

  251. Jason May 27th, 2009 at 6:41 pm

    I thouhgt girardi has some mental problems. No more word for the guy but only sucks!!!
    Giardi sucks!!!!

  252. V May 27th, 2009 at 6:45 pm

    This would be a better argument if his era wasn’t 9 million

  253. Dutch Hugo May 27th, 2009 at 6:56 pm

    V – his era is high because he pitched three games when he wasn’t ready! Even Eiland and the “brain trust” have admitted that.

    And GC, here are some more “meaningless stats” for you:
    Your Ace now, CC Sabathia, post-season stats:

    2008: 1 game, 3.2 innings, 6 hits, 5 earned runs.
    2007: 3 games, 15 innings, 21 hits, 15 earned runs.
    2001: 6 innings, 6 hits, 2 earned runs.

    So, according to the formula you use for Wang, CC “chokes” in the postseason too.

    Just about everyone who has ever starred in postseason or regular season has had their share of failure in postseason as well. Even the Hall of Famers.

    Wang is 29 years old. He was a big-time winner in ’06 and ’07, and last year until he got hurt. Now all of a sudden, because he stunk it up for three games while not having fully recovered his mechanics and strength from the injury you want to throw him under the bus…

    the team needs him. AJ has not pitched like a #2 this year, more like number two. Where’s all the hate for him? I’m not advocating hate for any of them (except Eiland, who I think did not do his job). I’m just saying why all the hate for Wang, who has been our best pitcher the last three years, and one of the best in baseball. Way too early to be giving up on the guy…

  254. trisha - OPPC member May 27th, 2009 at 7:04 pm

    “I asked the manager (on Monday) and he said to wait,” Wang said. “I just want to pitch. I know I can pitch like I did before.”

    Then he paused.

    “I didn’t forget how.”

    Now that just makes me want to cry for him.

  255. wewillsee May 27th, 2009 at 7:05 pm

    We have to be used to the yankees style and culture. As a pitcher, one day you pitch a scoreless game or 9k game, you are a hero even god like Phil dose. And every body will forget what he done last year and 2-6 QS this year because it just stats. The other day you pitch 3 games with 34.5 era, you are garbage even shit like Wang done. Then no one will remember he wins 38 in 2 years.
    Wang had ever been as a hero that time like Phil is now.
    But I dont think Phil was treated like trash last year.
    That what we dispute.
    That’s yankees, that New York. What can I tell you…

  256. trisha - OPPC member May 27th, 2009 at 7:09 pm

    I agree AJ really needs to step up and get the job tonight. AJ has been the unforunate beneficiary of lack of run support on several occasions. But we do need to see that he can go deep into the games and keep the Yankees in it. (And not just because he’s on my fantasy team…)

    Take this to the bank. Girardi will work Wang back into the rotation, where he belongs.

    Now I have to go powder my nose because Kim Jones is going to have an interview with Francisco Cervelli.

    :D

  257. trisha - OPPC member May 27th, 2009 at 7:17 pm

    I predict the Yankees take tonight’s game and AJ has a fairly good outing – well certainly better than the last one!

    I also predict that by evening’s end, Yankees will be tied for first place.

    I am in love with Cervelli. How wonderful is he!

  258. Dutch Hugo May 27th, 2009 at 7:17 pm

    GC: “Sure he rings up stats vs bad teams in the summer doldrums. Whoop-de-doo.”

    The utter stupidity of this statement speaks for itself, but I’m gonna hammer it home.
    Just a few of Wang’s starts from 2007, one of his 19-win seasons:

    May 21: Beat Boston 6-2, with 6.1 innings giving up 2 runs.

    May 26: Goes 8.0 innings vs. LA Angels, gives up 6 innings, 3 runs in a 3-1 loss.

    June 17: beat Mets 8-2, going 8.2 innings, 6 hits allowed, 2 earned runs and 10 strikeouts.

    July 3: Shut out Minnesota 8-0. 7 innings, 4 hits.

    July 8: Shut out Anaheim 12-0. 6.1 innings, 5 hits.

    Aug. 30: Shut out Boston 5-0. 7.0 innings, 1 hit!

    Yeah, those are some bad teams, GC.

    Here’s your head, what’s your hurry?

  259. trisha - OPPC member May 27th, 2009 at 7:22 pm

    Wang has pitched some great games for the Yankees. Because he flys well under the radar, people tend to forget.

  260. trisha - OPPC member May 27th, 2009 at 7:24 pm

    Wow, Jays lost yet again, and I believe it was in extras.

    I don’t enjoy seeing any team struggle except for the Red Sox.

  261. Dr.M May 27th, 2009 at 7:27 pm

    For some “fans”, 3 horrible starts in 2009 >>>>>>>> 46-15,3.74 ERA in 2006-2008.
    Luckily Justin Verlander is not with Yankees or he would be banished out of Detroit after his 4th start (5-0, 0.85 ERA since).
    Also don’t forget his awful 2008 either.

  262. Whatever May 27th, 2009 at 7:34 pm

    So Pete is pro-Wang and pro-Joba as a starter. Does that mean we send Hughes down even if he’s pitching better than Joba and even if Bruney is hurt just so we can accommodate Wang?

  263. Irene May 27th, 2009 at 7:42 pm

    Sigh~
    Pete,
    I do appreciate you speak up for Wang.
    would you please suggest Chien-Ming consider firing his agent as he need his agent speak up for him and get the fair treatment from the Yankees, and then he can concentrate on his pitching.

  264. AB May 27th, 2009 at 7:50 pm

    You don’t pay for the past, you pay for the future and Wang’s indicators don’t point to long-term future success. If you guys want to lame and watch your favorite players no matter if they’re still successful or not fine, but I just want to win.

  265. Dutch Hugo May 27th, 2009 at 8:03 pm

    AB — indicators? wang’s indicators are from THREE games while still recovering from the effects of injury. We’re not talking about a 40-year-old pitcher here, or someone with a bad shoulder. Wang is 29, in his prime, and simply hadn’t gotten his strength or mechanics back to where they needed to be when he was thrown out there in his first three games. The Yanks need to get him right. Like he said, he hasn’t forgotten how to pitch. How many bad games in a row has AJ had? Yet we’re not talking about dumping him, nor should we be… yet you’re willing to dump Wang based on three games.

  266. GC May 27th, 2009 at 8:19 pm

    HOME GAME another 6.1 inning performance
    > May 21: Beat Boston 6-2, with 6.1 innings giving up 2 runs.

    HOME LOSS
    > May 26: Goes 8.0 innings vs. LA Angels, gives up 6 innings, 3 runs in a 3-1 loss.

    HOME vs MUTZ – probably why HOMERS love WANG so much. Mr June.
    > June 17: beat Mets 8-2, going 8.2 innings, 6 hits allowed, 2 earned runs and 10 strikeouts.

    TWINKIES ‘nuf said but a good game (he’s had some)
    > July 3: Shut out Minnesota 8-0. 7 innings, 4 hits.

    STILL 6.1 INNINGS. #3 or #4 starts can do this sometimes.
    > July 8: Shut out Anaheim 12-0. 6.1 innings, 5 hits.

    HOME (no Manny, still a good game)
    > Aug. 30: Shut out Boston 5-0. 7.0 innings, 1 hit

    Next up post some ROAD GAME PERFORMANCES (when he wasn’t shielded by our Home park – somethign that wont be a luxury in 2009). Too bad Joe T. didn’t check home vs road when pitching him in the playoffs.

    CC carried teams INTO THE PLAYOFFS and was gassed. Maybe if he pitched 6 innings every 5th start that wouldn’t be an issue.

  267. AB May 27th, 2009 at 8:22 pm

    “AB—indicators? wang’s indicators are from THREE games while still recovering from the effects of injury. We’re not talking about a 40-year-old pitcher here, or someone with a bad shoulder. Wang is 29, in his prime, and simply hadn’t gotten his strength or mechanics back to where they needed to be when he was thrown out there in his first three games. The Yanks need to get him right. Like he said, he hasn’t forgotten how to pitch. How many bad games in a row has AJ had? Yet we’re not talking about dumping him, nor should we be… yet you’re willing to dump Wang based on three games.”

    Indicators like K/9, K/BB, BB/9. Wang’s aren’t impressive and unless he has the sinker working and getting him a ridiculous GB rate he has no chance at being successful. The GB rate is human now that sinker isn’t sinking and until it’s fixed he shouldn’t start.

  268. AB May 27th, 2009 at 8:24 pm

    And I know Pete has a hard on for the guy, but I don’t care that Wang is sad that he’s not starting.

  269. Dutch Hugo May 27th, 2009 at 9:08 pm

    GC, again, here’s your head, what’s your hurry? The guy was 38-13 over those 2 years. 8-2 last year before the injury. First you try to claim he only beat bad teams. I shoved that one back where it came from. Now you’re trying to claim he only pitched well against good teams at home… give it up. We could go back over all his road games throughout his career, but what’s the use? You’re an idiot. Pure and simple.

  270. Dutch Hugo May 27th, 2009 at 9:09 pm

    AB — I never said he should be starting now. I said disable him, send him down and get him fixed. You and a couple others here just want to give up on the guy based on three games. toss him into the scrap heap… that’s just crazy.

  271. J May 27th, 2009 at 10:54 pm

    I think Yankee should trade Wang to another team or give him a chance to be sp.Giradi do nothing seems very coldhearted to Wang.

  272. Su May 27th, 2009 at 11:24 pm

    other teams’ GM:
    HEY Cashman, I’ve heard that you have a 2-yr-38-wins RP
    how amazing~

    does Joe know that forty and forty-one is different?

  273. AB May 27th, 2009 at 11:29 pm

    I never said anything about giving up on him. Just that if he’s not getting groundballs he won’t be successful because his K/9 is so low. He can work through his problems just fine in the bullpen.

  274. Matthew Cohen May 27th, 2009 at 11:31 pm

    Changeup does look good.
    Still missing up a bit.

  275. Matthew Cohen May 27th, 2009 at 11:36 pm

    Wang has to work through it.
    When he’s on, he pounds the bottom of the zone at 92-95 and misses low.

    It’s not like he paints the corners.

    He has to re-learn to repeat the motion that enabled him to throw his heavy sinker consistently.

    Does he really need to get pasted in games to re-learn his motion?

    Let’s not forget, he’s getting $5 million per year to sit in the pen.

    He’ll figure it out and be a starter before long (I hope).

    These are the Yankees. If you suck, you sit. Just ask Melky and Gardner who have each been benched this year.

  276. riao May 28th, 2009 at 12:49 am

    Well, $man is the one I felt not satisified with.
    Yanker can take the leader always on ALEast with just CC, AJ, Andy, Hughs and Joba? I don’t know.
    If $man doesn’t believe Wang, then please trade Wang, and get other GREAT pitchers from other team.

    Don’t forget, we ever have the Kevin Brown, Randy Johnson, Wrighter, Pavano…then we take back the World championship again.

    Absolutely, NO, we have nothing!!!

  277. AC May 28th, 2009 at 2:20 am

    Forget about the debate whether Wang is a great/good/bad pitcher.
    If you are worried about BP depletion, call up a BP pitcher, or just tough it out with your other starters.
    Just sitting a starter in the BP for nothing looks like a knee jerk reaction to me.
    Something’s wrong with this management; they don’t even think 5 games out (this is May, not September).

  278. rwrn May 28th, 2009 at 2:29 am

    Wang got ripped. After Yankees placed him in DL, he pitched well in couple of the extended spring training games and management said the hitter’s level is too low.

    Wang needs real challenge in the AAA. After he gave 6 scoreless innings in AAA, then was told he needs another start to prove he is capable of pitching. Wang aced another start by pitching 7 scoreless innings. Then they want a bull pen section to see the “consistence” of his pitches. Wang does not need to proof he can pitch after showing 13 scoreless innings in AAA.

    Seems like the management is teasing this guy. They are just finding a way to not let this guy pitch.

  279. Johnson Yanker May 28th, 2009 at 4:52 am

    $man who is nothing to manage Yanker any more, why do you thing to trade him to Natioanal @ D.C. ?

  280. fstsport1 May 28th, 2009 at 1:36 pm

    I guess if Wang were a trouble maker and a loud mouth,maybe he would get better treatment from the Yankees. It seems like nice guys always finish last. Wang is not blind he sees the way other Yankee players are treated and it could affect his mind.He is also a far better pitcher than Igawa and he is not going to make 1/3 of what Igawa is making as a Yankee.The N.Y.Yankees better wake up before they destroy Wang to the point that he can’t pitch in N.Y.

  281. ROSEN May 28th, 2009 at 8:39 pm

    Fire Cashman who had made bad decisons for years.
    Trade Wang if Yanks think he’s unwanted.

  282. detfroga May 29th, 2009 at 6:11 am

    Kill $man
    It was nothing

  283. AC May 29th, 2009 at 2:25 pm

    Now I can see why Girardi got kicked out from his previous dig at Marlins.

  284. nanobio9 May 29th, 2009 at 8:07 pm

    When the Yankees scouts found Wang in Taiwan, Wang was famous for his fastball and slider. After all these years, Wang was criticized for not striking out many. As I remember, last year he was also criticized by the journalists (I forgot if Peter said similar things, too) that he is not pitching ‘smart’ enough, meaning that he follows the instructions from behind the plate all the time and does not take the responsibility of mixing his pitches. People said that he should think about the mixing more by himself. I agree with that very much. But let’s look at this problem another way. Isn’t it the problem of the coaches and the men behind the plate that Wang always tried to solve the problems with sinkers only? When the sinkers work, there is no problem. When they don’t, the Yankees had no solution and blame them on Wang. The fans would say that “he is not that valuable a piece in spite of his 50 wins”. There is also attribution of his wins to the backups from the batting crew. Oh, well, indeed, this is the team of ‘bombers’, not ‘sinkers’, although they had been sinking for the past few years. Well, a pitcher cannot win the game by himself unless he hits homers like Kuo did. Look at Dice-K in the first half of the 2008 season and then tell me that good pitchers do not need run supports. That is also one of the merits of a pitcher if he can induce production from the teammates. If you are a fan, please give respect to players as much as you can. However, I think that the best thing you fans can do to show respect to Wang now is to urge the Yankees to trade him. Trade him. Trade him.

  285. BC May 30th, 2009 at 12:39 am

    Andrew
    Did something hit your head? or you’re just crazy? If Hughes pitched a whole year last year. Maybe the yankees 0-164 red sox 164-0 what do you think?

  286. Rich June 1st, 2009 at 4:23 am

    Wang’s stats:
    First 3 games in April: 6 IP, 23 ER, 34.50 ERA
    Last 3 games in May : 8 IP, 2 ER, 2.25 ERA

    What a difference after he came back from DL.

    Remember the pitching coach still insisted Wang was fine after his first two insane games in early season? The coach: “Wang is fine, his stuff is there, I saw it in the bullpen….”
    Was he really fine?? Didn’t anyone notice his velocity was a bit off and can not locate his sinker at that time?
    Who made the decision to throw him out there to be slaughtered in eary season when he was not ready? that caused Yankees three games and hurt his confidence?
    Isn’t somebody’s job to watch the players, put them in when they are in good shape, and sit them out when they are not? This is unbelievable. Shouldn’t anyone be responsible for this? the pitching coach, manger or GM?

  287. Rich June 1st, 2009 at 4:43 am

    If they ever consider Wang is a starter like they annouced, what is the plan? A starter needs to build up his pitch count and arm strengh, so he can throw 100 pitches or so in a game. You simply can not just give the reliever a ball and ask him to start the next day.

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