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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


No, no, a thousand times, no. No.

Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on May 28, 2009 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Lots of e-mails yesterday about Joba Chamberlain. Because of his rocky outing on Tuesday night, assorted people went into a panic and decided he needed to go back to the bullpen.

This would be like saying that because you caught a cold, you need to call Dr. Kevorkian. Even Sweeny Murti caved in. Shame on you, Sweeny. Next time pour a Diet Coke over Mike’s head and tell him to pipe down.

I get that the Yankees need bullpen help. But Joba has a 3.25 ERA in 21 career starts and is averaging 9.8 strikeouts per nine innings. CC Sabathia has a 3.65 ERA as a starter and averages 7.4 strikeouts per nine innings. Lets make him a reliever. He throws hard. I bet he would be good at it.

Joba has a chance to be one of the best starters in the game, not simply one of the best starters on the Yankees. He’s 23. You need to give him every chance in the world to accomplish this.

Great starters don’t just float down from baseball heaven one day. They are developed, they make mistakes and learn from them, they gain experience. Joba needs to learn to pitch to contact in certain situations and not waste two-strike pitches. His warm-up routine needs work and he’s not great holding runners on.

But that all comes in time. And when it all does … holy cow. Starting pitching is the key to winning baseball, period. Learn it, live it, love it.

Yes, the Yankees need relief help. Thats why you have a general manager. Go get Huston Street or somebody else. Give David Robertson and/or Mark Melancon a chance. But don’t throw away another year of development for Chamberlain. Don’t start the clock again.

Joba needs to throw 150+ innings this season. He’s going to take his lumps from time to time. But the finished product will be one you can treasure for years.

You know who would have been a heck of a pitcher in the eighth inning? Roy Halladay. But the Blue Jays weren’t stupid. They nurtured him and lived through the growing pains and now they have a true ace.

Stop begging the Yankees to be stupid. It makes no sense.

————

Sam Borden weighs in on the matter over on SNY.TV.

Comments

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232 Responses to “No, no, a thousand times, no. No.”

  1. Brandon "You think you can keep up w/ me ?" May 28th, 2009 at 3:03 pm

    “But even even Sweeny Murti caved in. Shame on you, Sweeny. Next time pour a Diet Coke over Mike’s head and tell him to pipe down.”

    LMAO classic :lol:

  2. SJ44 May 28th, 2009 at 3:04 pm

    Everytime Joba has a bad outing, we get this nonsense, let by Diet Coke.

    His flock then join in and its idiot talk all over again.

    The Yankees are tied for first place, Posada is back on Friday, and things are looking up.

    To have another “what to do with Joba” story is a waste of time. He’s staying in the rotation if he stays healthy, regardless of what Diet Coke opines about after a bad start.

  3. Whitey Fraud May 28th, 2009 at 3:05 pm

    It was painful listening to Sutcliffe spout that Joba-bullpen nonsense on ESPN last night, too.

    Guess it could have been worse. It could have been Steve Phillips and Joe Morgan.

  4. Chip May 28th, 2009 at 3:08 pm

    I don’t understand how anybody can make the argument that he should be in the bullpen. Look at it this way, Joba might be the best player on the Yankees within the next couple of years. I’m talking about him being on the Clemens, Sabathia, Halladay, Santana, Maddux level of domination. That’s how ridiculously good this kid is.

    For everybody wanting to put him in the bullpen, ask yourself, can he single-handedly win a game for the Yankees? No, he can’t, he can merely hope that whomever is starting has a good start and he can come in to protect the lead. As a starter, he could throw a complete game 3 hitter with 15 strikeouts and essentially win the game by himself.

  5. RBIRADIO May 28th, 2009 at 3:08 pm

    Yeah. Totally agree Pete. Where were all these asinine fans when he was dominant in half his starts this year? It’s not like he is particularly horrible. I mean sure, he didn’t go deep in the game but he also didn’t exit with having given up 8 runs last time I checked. And as long as he continues to keep his team in the game I don’t see how it’s even relevant to throw him into the pen. Then again, the Yankee organization gave the fans a taste of what Joba will be like in the pen; Maybe they should have just not have done that. Let the pro’s do their job. That’s why they are professionals.

  6. Evan May 28th, 2009 at 3:08 pm

    “Joba needs to learn to pitch to contact in certain situations and not waste two-strike pitches. His warm-up routine needs work and he’s not great holding runners on.”

    What the hell is Dave Eiland doing then? Like you said, he is 23. These things aren’t just going to happen out of no where. His pitching routine needs to change via the pitching coach. Has it?

  7. DET x 2 May 28th, 2009 at 3:08 pm

    Cashman – go out and get some relief help

  8. Clare May 28th, 2009 at 3:08 pm

    SJ44,

    I just picked up tickets for the Austin Regionals, and I’m really looking forward to seeing your nephew. Hope you and Tony have a great weekend.

  9. RBI RADIO May 28th, 2009 at 3:10 pm

    Why even address it anymore Pete? No point in getting worked up. If they don’t get it by now, they aren’t going to.

  10. Chip May 28th, 2009 at 3:11 pm

    Evan – every guy has to come to the park ready to play. He needs to have an attack mentality from pitch one. Eiland can’t help with that, every guy needs to figure that out on his own

  11. ANSKY May 28th, 2009 at 3:11 pm

    Hey, Nolan Ryan could have been a great 8th innnig guy too.

    Jeez what a waste he turned into as a starter ……

    *****************************************

    From last thread:

    SJ does Tony bat lefty or righty?

    Would you prefer the Yanks look to him, or to someone like Mauer or Montero after Posada hangs ‘em up?

    I realize he may not be ML ready by the time Posada quits catching, but let’s assume for the sake of discussion that he’ll be close.

  12. thomas May 28th, 2009 at 3:11 pm

    i think you’re the only one left Pete who realizes the importance of keeping joba starting. well you and thankfully the yankees. another great example is Zack Grienke. we can all hope joba turns out to be half as good as the season hes turning in this year.

  13. Harper M May 28th, 2009 at 3:12 pm

    Joba has struggled in his career against Texas… just an outlier

    He will dominate the Iidians

  14. Uncle Ellsworth (Expert texpert choking smokers don't you think the joker laughs at you?) May 28th, 2009 at 3:12 pm

    Pete where is the Gehrig weathervane?

  15. Kevin S. May 28th, 2009 at 3:13 pm

    Ugh. I don’t know what was worst about Sutcliffe last night, his declaring random at bats key to the game (and I mean, they were REALLY random), hi spouting off about Joba to the pen, or his performing fellatio on Nolan Ryan in the booth.

  16. Golden May 28th, 2009 at 3:13 pm

    Yea this is getting exhausting to read about. Joba is a future ace, he’s 23 years old and needs time. They need to get bullpen help soon, making trades or whatever.

    Joba is a starter, end of.

  17. R-Tek May 28th, 2009 at 3:13 pm

    As Hank said last year,… I’m not wasting a guy with a 100 MPH fastball in the bullpen

  18. JoeT 28 in 10!! MELKY FOR MVP!!!! May 28th, 2009 at 3:14 pm

    who cares what anyone thinks…. the team has said he will start, there has been nothing even hinting they were thinking otherwise.

    Any yes, he is a starter.

  19. Laura - Win together, strike out alone! May 28th, 2009 at 3:14 pm

    Just when I had tuned out the “Joba to the bullpen” talk. Thanks a lot, Pete!

    The people who want Joba in the bullpen don’t understand baseball (that includes Francessa). It’s as simple as that. If you don’t understand why a potentially fantastic starter is more important to your franchise than a reliever, you don’t understand baseball and should go follow hockey.

  20. Another fan May 28th, 2009 at 3:14 pm

    You are so right it is not even funny.

  21. Another fan May 28th, 2009 at 3:15 pm

    Okay Laura, slow down a bit there. I am a huge Joba starter guy (a convert, in fact) but Jim Kaat even said he wants Joba in the pen.

  22. IrishCarBomb May 28th, 2009 at 3:16 pm

    Laura- What’s wrong with Hockey?

  23. JJ May 28th, 2009 at 3:16 pm

    Joba doesnt have a 100mph fastball, he has a 92 mph fastball, and a below average one at that

  24. Doreen May 28th, 2009 at 3:16 pm

    Pete & Wave Your Hat -

    Don’t want to re-start the conversation from two thread (or is it three??) ago about the stadium dimension. I was out and just saw it and I wanted to thank both of you for the graphics you provided, especially the overlaid stadium dimensions from WYH. I wish I was here for the discussion. Suffice to say, the old-fashioned scoreboard, while a nice touch and very quaint and retro, may not have been worth it in the long-run. What’s also interesting is that the fence hits the key distance markers (so they can say the stadium has the same dimensions) but plays with the in between distances (taking out the curve seems to be what’s leading to what used to be long outs at the wall turning into the extra homeruns).

    I would bet money that this will be fixed. Because it can be shown on paper.

    The motto here needs to be Just Say No – NO to Joba in the Pen, No to trading Wang, No to Wang in the Pen, No to bringing up AJax right now. Just say NO! :)

    Have fun at the B-Ball game, Pete.

  25. Howard May 28th, 2009 at 3:16 pm

    Can you please write the same article substituting Joba with Phil Hughes. They both need to be starters! Hughes must pitch his 150 innings this year or he too will be starting over again next year.

  26. tampayank May 28th, 2009 at 3:16 pm

    “R-Tek
    May 28th, 2009 at 3:13 pm
    As Hank said last year,… I’m not wasting a guy with a 100 MPH fastball in the bullpen


    Hank is missing, the family must have banned him from making public comments

  27. Cameron D May 28th, 2009 at 3:16 pm

    This nonsense needs to stop, you don’t waste a guy with major league pitches in the bullpen until he proves he can’t be a starter and joba has been fine.

  28. Vader May 28th, 2009 at 3:17 pm

    SJ…I listened to diet coke yesterday for few minutes…that is all I can take, I never thought Mad Dogg was the one to keep the sanity, but I guess I was wrong.

    All he did was yell that Joba was timid and when he was a reliever he wasn’t and being a four pitch pitcher was bad…he was such a great two pitch pitcher!

    I wonder what he thinks of his beloved Red Sawx pitcher Jon Lester and his 6-something era and the fact he is a 6 inning pitcher.

    Not everyone can be Prior or Verlander…Halladay was sent all the way back to single A in his development.

  29. JoeT 28 in 10!! MELKY FOR MVP!!!! May 28th, 2009 at 3:17 pm

    TERRIBLE CALL – HE TAGGED HIM PLUS HE MISSED THE PLATE…. AWFUL…. ALMOST WORSE THEN PUTTING JOBA IN THE PEN

  30. S.A.--Let's get ready to rumble! May 28th, 2009 at 3:17 pm

    But even even Sweeny Murti caved in. Shame on you, Sweeny. Next time pour a Diet Coke over Mike’s head and tell him to pipe down.

    =============================

    Hahaha
    Yeah, Sweeny disappointed me

  31. Another fan May 28th, 2009 at 3:17 pm

    JJ-You’re going by his bad start. As a starter, when he’s on, he hits 94 to 95 consitently and can go up to 97 or 98 when he wants to ratchet it up.

  32. carl May 28th, 2009 at 3:18 pm

    Do they just grab any idiot off the street and make them umpires?

  33. Michael May 28th, 2009 at 3:18 pm

    Go look at why the Yanks didn’t win a playoff series from ’05 – ’08. Their starters averaged less than 5 inn. per start w/ an ERA of over 6. People do realize that if they had Joba in the 8th in those years it wouldn’t have made a difference, don’t they?

  34. DB - (officially panicked 5/13/09) May 28th, 2009 at 3:19 pm

    Darn new threads…posting again in the midst of the great Joba debate

    If you look at what another guy posted in an early thread about the stadium and hit tracker it bears repeating..
    http://riveraveblues.com/2009/.....ark-10299/

    http://www.hittrackeronline.co.....e=ballpark

    I count 20 homers that wouldn’t have been out in the old park. They got to fix it in the off season, no doubt

  35. Laura - Win together, strike out alone! May 28th, 2009 at 3:19 pm

    “Okay Laura, slow down a bit there. I am a huge Joba starter guy (a convert, in fact) but Jim Kaat even said he wants Joba in the pen.”

    That doesn’t mean he’s right. Joba is a 4 pitch guy. You don’t waste that in the bullpen.

  36. Oh please. May 28th, 2009 at 3:20 pm

    Argh. Horrible call by the ump in MINN.

  37. SJ44 May 28th, 2009 at 3:20 pm

    ANSKY,

    Tony hits right handed.

    Mauer is never going to see free agency. The Twins will lock him up long term.

    If Tony got drafted by the Yankees, it would be fine by me.

    Clare,

    Very nice! We’ll be there. I’m flying to Austin early tomorrow morning and can’t win. Should be a lot of fun.

  38. Another fan May 28th, 2009 at 3:20 pm

    Yeah Laura, I know, but they have every right to watch baseball and be fans is what I’m saying.

  39. Laura - Win together, strike out alone! May 28th, 2009 at 3:21 pm

    “Laura- What’s wrong with Hockey?”

    Other than it’s a boxing match on ice, nothing. :P

  40. Laura - Win together, strike out alone! May 28th, 2009 at 3:21 pm

    “Yeah Laura, I know, but they have every right to watch baseball and be fans is what I’m saying.”

    I was exaggerating, AF. They can watch baseball; they just can’t be the Yankees GM. :)

  41. abe May 28th, 2009 at 3:21 pm

    The debate only happens if Joba approaches the inning limit AND if we still have plethora of starters then. Only then, it’s reasonable to consider moving him to the bullpen for the playoff run. But he needs to get to the inning limit, so that he has no restriction next year.

    OTOH, I never really understood controlling innings for young pitchers. I mean, Hughes’ 8 IN in Texas seems much more less stressful than throwing 100 pitches in 5 innings in a close game with lots of runners on base…

  42. Another fan May 28th, 2009 at 3:21 pm

    I really like hockey.

  43. JJ May 28th, 2009 at 3:22 pm

    http://www.fangraphs.com/stats.....position=P

    if you scroll down to pitch type, it shows his fastball at an average of 92.3 mph this year.

    going down to linear weights, it shows fastball as -6 runs, or 6 runs below an average fastball. there’s no denying his fastball this year is slower and easier to hit

  44. Sloba May 28th, 2009 at 3:22 pm

    I don’t see this fat Nebrasken having much in the tank for a full season of starting – he can barely get thru 5 innings now, what’s it going to be like in July and August? And his stuff is great but only in short doses…as JJ pointed out, his fastball barely breaks 92 now. Put this porker in the 8th inning and lets win the friggin pennant again.

  45. DB - (officially panicked 5/13/09) May 28th, 2009 at 3:22 pm

    The ONLY way Joba should be pushed to te pen is if he is going to close, period. Why is this so hard to understand? Is baseball setting new precedents by putting their best young pitchers to pitch an inning that makes or break a game once a month?

    Guess what, the yanks still lose tuesday with Joba in the 8th, because the game was lost in the 7th. There has been one game the Yanks blew in the 8th this year…thats it.

  46. Greg Cohen May 28th, 2009 at 3:22 pm

    Totally agree Pete.

  47. Another fan May 28th, 2009 at 3:22 pm

    All right Laura. Fine.

    Joba will almost certainly be in the bullpen for the playoffs.

  48. Laura - Win together, strike out alone! May 28th, 2009 at 3:23 pm

    “Argh. Horrible call by the ump in MINN.”

    One of my pet peeves is that Umps are allowed to blow calls w/o consequence. They’re like teachers with tenure.

  49. S.A.--Let's get ready to rumble! May 28th, 2009 at 3:23 pm

    Alright, Andrew Marchand about to come on with Kay on 1050. Maybe he will expand on this:

    http://stations.espn.go.com/st.....id=3480300

  50. Another fan May 28th, 2009 at 3:24 pm

    Sloba-Right. Fat guys can’t eat up innings. Like CC, he never pitches many innings.

    And pitchers get better when it’s warmer. Stop overreacting to a bad start.

  51. Another fan May 28th, 2009 at 3:25 pm

    JJ-Early in the season. Two things, he needs to build up arm strength, and he pitches it slower then dials it up at big outs to avoid injury.

  52. JoeT 28 in 10!! MELKY FOR MVP!!!! May 28th, 2009 at 3:25 pm

    How did it go that long before Tek got tossed??

    Is there anyone with authority left in this game?? Catchers.. Managers.. as the Hawke would say:

    HE GONE!!!!

  53. G. Love May 28th, 2009 at 3:26 pm

    This Joba thing got re-started by Kim Jones posting on her blog that she and people in the locker room want Joba in the pen.

    The story needs to die. They need to shift to the Yankees have one of the most talented young homegrown starting pitchers they’ve had in a long time in Joba.

    I give Pete credit for not drinking the kool aid and not trying to get cheap blog hits (not that I think he needs them) by calling for Joba to go back to the pen.

    I think a lot of the other media types aren’t being truthful when they write Joba should be a reliever. I think they are doing it to take a stand and be controversial.

    I would love to see any of them debate what Pete just wrote in the post above.

    The team is in first. We will fix the pen before the end of the season and if we make the post season and Joba is at his innings limits, then put him in the pen and have him and Mo turn the playoffs into 6 inning games since his arm will need to be protected at that point.

    At this point? He’s a starter and should remain one, unless you think guys who avg. 9 K’s per 9 innings grow on trees because they don’t.

  54. JoeT 28 in 10!! MELKY FOR MVP!!!! May 28th, 2009 at 3:26 pm

    I take that back, the umpire definitely said something about Beckett to Tek …. ridiculous

  55. YankeeDiva May 28th, 2009 at 3:27 pm

    Pete please don’t be alarmed but…….I completely agree with you (on this topic anyway) :)

  56. Frank May 28th, 2009 at 3:27 pm

    From S.A.’s link—

    “Yankees GM Brian Cashman told me that Chien Ming Wang is in the bullpen unless Joe Girardi decides to make a change. Cashman says that Wang shouldn’t have a problem because “his contract says baseball player,” not starter and he “is sporting a 20-something ERA,” adding “We didn’t put him in this situation.”

    Alan Chang, Wang’s agent, told me, “[Wang's] not comfortable with it, but he’s a team player.”

    Ouch. What are they doing?

  57. JL May 28th, 2009 at 3:27 pm

    For the record, I think he should start. But it’s misleading to make your point that the alternative of that equals “just an 8th inning pitcher” … His role as set-up man would be in preperation for losing Mariano to age (retirement/ineffectiveness/what have you). That’s the main selling point. David Robertson and Mark Melancon (and even Houston Street) are not even in the same conversation when it comes to relieving and the Joba argument. We’ve seen Joba do it.

    The “doesn’t fall from the baseball heavens” angle works for closers as well (See #42, the last 15 years)

  58. Joe Mama May 28th, 2009 at 3:27 pm

    Well whoever had the ump from the twins sox game in their fantasy league has just had the biggest day ever

  59. Jimbo May 28th, 2009 at 3:27 pm

    Once Wang gets going, the Yankees will have five starters who are better than Joba when you factor length into the equation.

    Joba should be a starter – next year.

  60. Don Capone May 28th, 2009 at 3:27 pm

    Man, I agree with this post 100%. Joba will be one of those dominating and intimidating starters ala Clemens that you NEED in a short post season series. That’s really what we were lacking in the last couple of post seasons. Let him develop and gain experience, not yank him around.

  61. Nat May 28th, 2009 at 3:28 pm

    Cashman is right. Wang has a 20 ERA, he doesn’t get to choose where he goes.

  62. DB - (officially panicked 5/13/09) May 28th, 2009 at 3:28 pm

    What happened for varitek to get tossed? They got the out…can’t follow on gameday

  63. Another fan May 28th, 2009 at 3:29 pm

    JL, then you’re expecting him to be Mo. There’s one Mo. There are several Aces. I bet Ace.

    By the way, I think Melancon could be the guy.

  64. Laura - Win together, strike out alone! May 28th, 2009 at 3:29 pm

    That BOS/MIN game sounds interesting. Wish I could watch it.

  65. GreenBeret7 May 28th, 2009 at 3:29 pm

    SJ44
    May 28th, 2009 at 3:20 pm
    ANSKY,

    Tony hits right handed.

    Mauer is never going to see free agency. The Twins will lock him up long term.

    If Tony got drafted by the Yankees, it would be fine by me.

    Clare,

    Very nice! We’ll be there. I’m flying to Austin early tomorrow morning and can’t win. Should be a lot of fun.

    ————————————————————

    Two things about austin….stay away from East Austin. The best spots to go are on 6th street and on the Drag, along Guadalupe in front of the University of Texas. Conan’s Pizza. Great food, great view of the city. Round Rock probably has the best of the hotels and that’s about a 15 minute drive to downtown Austin.

  66. Another fan May 28th, 2009 at 3:29 pm

    Nat-He was injured, he’s done a lot for this team, and he is to good when right to be a strting pitcher, IMO.

  67. trisha - OPPC member May 28th, 2009 at 3:29 pm

    The pitch wasn’t even a strike!!! What a fool Varitek is.

    Meanwhile, the Sux announcers said that both managers and catchers were tossed. Why the hell would that be?
    Gardy didn’t do anything!!!

  68. Peter Rabbit May 28th, 2009 at 3:30 pm

    Pete— Can you please call Mike Francessa and smack some sense into him about Joba!?

  69. Another fan May 28th, 2009 at 3:30 pm

    to has two o’s.

  70. chief May 28th, 2009 at 3:30 pm

    You’d think after years of not having a dominant Beckett-type starter we’d recognize one when we see one. Of course, predictably, half of the fans don’t. This is one instance I’m glad Cashman is running things and not the knuckleheads on talk radio or on internet blogs.

  71. spark May 28th, 2009 at 3:31 pm

    Entering this year, his 3rd in the majors, Joba Chamberlain, age 23, had thrown 124 innings.

    Entering Roy Holladay’s 3rd year in the majors, he had thrown 163 innings. In that 3rd year, he proceeded to go 4-7 with a…wait for it…10.64 ERA. He was 23. Two years after that he went 19-7. The next year he won the Cy Young.

    http://www.baseball-reference......ro01.shtml

    Patience, people. Patience.

  72. trisha - OPPC member May 28th, 2009 at 3:31 pm

    Laura, if I had gotten home sooner you could have used my online account. Any time you want to watch a game just let me know.

  73. Another fan May 28th, 2009 at 3:31 pm

    Yeah, call Franessa, Pete!

    Hey guys, let’s start the “Have Pete knock some sense into Francessa” campaign!

  74. Uncle Ellsworth (Expert texpert choking smokers don't you think the joker laughs at you?) May 28th, 2009 at 3:31 pm

    wow per Marchand
    Yanks told Wang NOT to work his legs in the off – season and Cash admitted it was a mistake.

  75. Mark D May 28th, 2009 at 3:31 pm

    The Joba think is nuts. Why fix on Joba? Why no mention of Hughes to the pen?
    I wonder if the Yankees question ever putting him in the pen and giving all these boneheads a basis to complain.

  76. Wave Your Hat May 28th, 2009 at 3:31 pm

    Gardy was tossed on a previous close play at the plate, I think.

  77. Another fan May 28th, 2009 at 3:32 pm

    Hey guys, Twinkies have man on second, two out.

  78. JoeT 28 in 10!! MELKY FOR MVP!!!! May 28th, 2009 at 3:32 pm

    DB – Beckett threw a BEAUTIFUL pitch on the outside corner (NESN’s K zone showed it was a little off the plate) Beckett stared in for a second, the umpire must of said something to Tek about him staring in because as Tek was about to throw the ball back to the mound he held onto it and turned around and got in the umps face…. he got tossed, then Tito protecting him.

    I have no idea what either of them said but from the looks of it the ump was wrong here and not tek.

  79. Laura - Win together, strike out alone! May 28th, 2009 at 3:32 pm

    “Laura, if I had gotten home sooner you could have used my online account. Any time you want to watch a game just let me know.”

    Thanks, trisha. I can’t watch it because I’m at work. LOL!

  80. rmel May 28th, 2009 at 3:32 pm

    Totally agree Pete…I made the case this morning I would consider Wang for Street and a/few prospects…The Rockies are out and are going to make some moves….but i have a sense that Joba will somehow make it back in the pen….as much as i would not like it to happen….i can see it happen…i don’t want to trade higher end prospects for Street….i think he would be a fine set-up man/emergency closer

  81. Another fan May 28th, 2009 at 3:33 pm

    Pinch hitter up for the Twinkies.

    For the record, I’m not watching I’m on Gameday. If any of you want to know what’s happening try that.

  82. SJ44 May 28th, 2009 at 3:33 pm

    You know what would make great radio? Diet Coke and Pete, one on one, over this Joba stuff.

    Does Diet Coke have the ego to put someone on the air with a viewpoint opposite of his own? Inquiring minds want to know.

  83. Clint May 28th, 2009 at 3:33 pm

    Props to Marchand for getting these quotes about Wang

  84. RC 16 May 28th, 2009 at 3:34 pm

    Juan Miranda and Kontos for Houston Street.

  85. Laura - Win together, strike out alone! May 28th, 2009 at 3:34 pm

    Who is the home ump in that game?

  86. S.A.--Let's get ready to rumble! May 28th, 2009 at 3:34 pm

    Andrew Marchand on now:

    >The yankees told Wang not to work his leg this offseason. That was a mistake and why he got off to a slow start. Root of the problem-he’s upset about that
    >If he’s in the bullpen-he’s pretty much gonna be losing money and also he’s a starter. He’s owed a little something
    >Wang is not bashing the yankees, but inwardly maybe not happy
    >Basically Brian Cashman says he(Wang) has to deal with it.
    >Cashman admitted they made a mistake not having Wang work his legs in the offseason.

  87. Another fan May 28th, 2009 at 3:34 pm

    Cuddyer walked. Men on first and second, 2 outs in seventh for the Twinkies.

  88. Joe Mama May 28th, 2009 at 3:34 pm

    Twins catcher got tossed Mauer was the DH. He had to come in to catch so the twins lost their DH.

  89. GreenBeret7 May 28th, 2009 at 3:34 pm

    trisha – OPPC member
    May 28th, 2009 at 3:29 pm
    The pitch wasn’t even a strike!!! What a fool Varitek is.

    Meanwhile, the Sux announcers said that both managers and catchers were tossed. Why the hell would that be?
    Gardy didn’t do anything!!!

    ————————————————————

    The “magic words” were uttered.

  90. JL May 28th, 2009 at 3:34 pm

    No one will ever be Mo (and again, I personally think Joba should start), but if you’re “pro-Joba in the pen” then I think you need to mention that as a selling point. (Just as you shouldn’t ignore it if you’re against it.) When Mo retires and Houston Street is blowing every 5th save, we might be 2nd-guessing ourselves.

    Mo is the best of all-time, that there are so few closers even near his quality is kind of a “pro-Joba in the pen” argument.

  91. Another fan May 28th, 2009 at 3:35 pm

    Wow. After a four pitch walk, out by swinging at the first pitch.

    Awful, awful, plate discipline.

  92. E-gawa May 28th, 2009 at 3:35 pm

    “E-gawa: That is so not true. First of all he’s 23. He’s still learning and having a much better first season than most pitchers do. Second, he’s on an innings limit and would be going deeper if he were allowed.”

    His innings limit has nothing to do with how many innings he goes per start.. His pitch count does.. he throws too many pitches per inning and usually ends with around 100 pitches near the 5th.

    We’re not talking about AJ or CC or Mariano or anyone else. We’re talking about Joba because of what he’s actually done in a role.

    Plans change for many players.. Rick Ankiel didn’t start as a pitcher, Arod didn’t come up as 3rd basemen, Babe Ruth didn’t come up as an outfielder.

    Nolan Ryan, Bob Gibson? What?
    Nolan Ryan had 222 complete games
    Bob Gibson had 255 complete games

    You’re bringing in a different game to this debate. Joba will never be that kind of pitcher.. ever.

    And who is David Price? Oh you mean the guy who’s been averaging 4 innings a start in the MINORS this year?

  93. Laura - Win together, strike out alone! May 28th, 2009 at 3:35 pm

    So Cashman knows that Veras stinks. Good to know. :P

  94. SJ44 May 28th, 2009 at 3:35 pm

    GB,

    Thanks for the tip. Its my first trip to Austin.

    I’m staying on 7th, about a mile from the ballpark. I’m always looking for good places to eat so, any suggestions are welcome. Thanks a lot.

  95. vtred May 28th, 2009 at 3:36 pm

    Per Merchand – Cashman told Wang not to work out his leg this winter and admitted it was a mistake

  96. Another fan May 28th, 2009 at 3:36 pm

    JL-I’m not advocating Street as closer. But I think great strters are more valuable than great relievers, so even if both are rare I’d still rather him start.

    By the way, I do think Melancon could be the guy.

  97. Wangawa May 28th, 2009 at 3:37 pm

    If you don’t want to put Joba in the ‘pen, fine, but then you better go and make a trade or two, because I can’t watch Veras and Coke get lit up anymore. Tell Cashman to get Heath Bell or Huston Street or someone who can actually pitch.

  98. Laura - Win together, strike out alone! May 28th, 2009 at 3:37 pm

    Marchand saying they may bring up Austin Jackson.

  99. Jeff NJ - Wang Relief May 28th, 2009 at 3:37 pm

    Joba to the pen is not even a debate at this time. Maybe later in the season when he approaches his innings limit.

    I do think the proper question is should Wang remain in the pen:

    1. until Joba hits his innings limit,
    2. until the next injury, or
    3. until Hughes has a bad start.

  100. rmel May 28th, 2009 at 3:37 pm

    “Juan Miranda and Kontos for Houston Street.”

    you may have to throw in a guy like dunn/bliech

  101. Laura - Win together, strike out alone! May 28th, 2009 at 3:38 pm

    “If you don’t want to put Joba in the ‘pen, fine, but then you better go and make a trade or two, because I can’t watch Veras and Coke get lit up anymore. Tell Cashman to get Heath Bell or Huston Street or someone who can actually pitch.”

    Cashman told Marchand that the bullpen was a top priority so he knows that we need help in that area.

  102. GreenBeret7 May 28th, 2009 at 3:38 pm

    SJ44
    May 28th, 2009 at 3:33 pm
    You know what would make great radio? Diet Coke and Pete, one on one, over this Joba stuff.

    Does Diet Coke have the ego to put someone on the air with a viewpoint opposite of his own? Inquiring minds want to know.

    ————————————————————

    Is there enough Diet Coke in reserve at the Coca-Cola Bottling Plant in NY and who pays for it? Certainly can’t expect us stock holder in Coke to foot that bill.

  103. Another fan May 28th, 2009 at 3:39 pm

    E-gawa: My points are being misconstrued.

    When Bob Gibson and Ryan STARTED OUT, people didn’t look and say, “wow, great bullpen guys”. They said great strters. Same with David Price.

    By the way, that’s where we disagree. Joba is young and doing better than most pitchers in their first season’s starting, I absolutely think he could be a HOF dominant pitcher one day, he has that potential.

    And his innings limit does have to do with it. W/o it, he’d be throwing 120 pitches.

  104. Trevor May 28th, 2009 at 3:39 pm

    He said “later this summer” they could bring up Jackson. Which sounds like September.

  105. jennifer May 28th, 2009 at 3:39 pm

    Evan

    Yeah it has. Geez, it is called google.

  106. Hank May 28th, 2009 at 3:39 pm

    So… they have no plan on putting him back in the rotation and they will leave it up to Girardi to decide what to do with him?

    Way to take care if your #2 starter, 2-time 19 game winner!

  107. Another fan May 28th, 2009 at 3:40 pm

    Wangawa-Agreed, 100%.

  108. trisha - OPPC member May 28th, 2009 at 3:40 pm

    So if either manager utters the magic words the other manager gets tossed?????

  109. Rachel May 28th, 2009 at 3:40 pm

    The way they are handling Wang is very odd. He has a 25 era because he is coming back from an injury and was obviously out of wack. It is not like he came into the season completely healthy and just got shelled for no reason. If they don’t think his stuff is good enough right now and want to work him in slowly then I understand. But if that isn’t the reason then I don’t get why they are treating him like this.

  110. Another fan May 28th, 2009 at 3:40 pm

    Big Papi pops up for first out of top of eighth.

  111. DB - (officially panicked 5/13/09) May 28th, 2009 at 3:40 pm

    Thanks JoeT, although if Beckett was staring in I dont blame the ump for getting pissed. Tek can take his stuck up atittude and watch the rest of the game in the clubhouse

  112. Brandon "You think you can keep up w/ me ?" May 28th, 2009 at 3:41 pm

    “Marchand saying they may bring up Austin Jackson.”

    Yeh, he’s completely off on that.

  113. Another fan May 28th, 2009 at 3:41 pm

    I’m sorry, Big Papi was last out.

    Beckett out, Okajima in.

  114. vinny-b (Girardi, Pettitte, Mo, Matsui, Gardner = my top 5) May 28th, 2009 at 3:42 pm

    “Hey guys, let’s start the “Have Pete knock some sense into Francessa” campaign”

    provided Pete gets physical, i would pay good money.

  115. Laura - Win together, strike out alone! May 28th, 2009 at 3:42 pm

    “Marchand saying they may bring up Austin Jackson.”

    “Yeh, he’s completely off on that.”

    I was just reminded that he said later this summer.

  116. Another fan May 28th, 2009 at 3:42 pm

    Mauer and Morneau up this inning.

  117. E-gawa May 28th, 2009 at 3:42 pm

    “You know who would have been a heck of a pitcher in the eighth inning? Roy Halladay.”

    Based on what?

    If you bothered to look at the guys stats.. he wasn’t all that great as a reliever.

    Also the Blue Jays brought him up as a starter and his 2nd appearance in the majors Roy Halladay threw a complete game shut out. So comparing Joba to Halladay is stretching it a little bit.

  118. spark May 28th, 2009 at 3:42 pm

    I’m convinced Varitek is on the juice.

  119. Laura - Win together, strike out alone! May 28th, 2009 at 3:43 pm

    So Varitek has 10 HRs so far. Sounds like someone is dipping into the magic sauce again.

  120. Another fan May 28th, 2009 at 3:43 pm

    E-gawa: Santana had a six ERA his first season.

    They didn’t give up on him and he did fine.

  121. Brandon "You think you can keep up w/ me ?" May 28th, 2009 at 3:43 pm

    Lisfranc is rare, usually you have to stay off your foot w/ that type of injury that’s something he has to deal with, tough it up G.

  122. Another fan May 28th, 2009 at 3:43 pm

    Hey guys, Tek is only batting like 240 something.

  123. Justin May 28th, 2009 at 3:43 pm

    Very good argument, Pete.
    But how about Wang and Hughes ?
    Putting Joba in the pen can solve two problems, assuming Wang return to form. Yankees always been a win now organization, don’t you think it better to have a solid starting rotation and a solid bridge to Mo ? I like Joba as a starter, but given the current situation, the Yanks are better off with Joba in the pen. Wang will be decide factor, I hope he can return to form.

  124. Another fan May 28th, 2009 at 3:44 pm

    2 balls to Span for Twinkies in the eighth.

  125. Joe I May 28th, 2009 at 3:44 pm

    “So if either manager utters the magic words the other manager gets tossed?????”

    trisha, there were two separate arguments today. this is from Yahoo’s game notes…

    MINNESOTA MANAGER RON GARDENHIRE AND CATCHER MIKE REDMOND WERE EJECTED BY HOME PLATE UMPIRE TODD TICHENOR IN THE TOP OF THE SEVENTH INNING FOR ARGUING A SAFE CALL AT HOME PLATE.

    BOSTON MANAGER TERRY FRANCONA AND CATCHER JASON VARITEK WERE EJECTED BY HOME PLATE UMPIRE TODD TICHENOR IN THE BOTTOM OF THE SEVENTH INNING FOR ARGUING BALLS AND STRIKES.

  126. Wave Your Hat May 28th, 2009 at 3:44 pm

    trisha-

    The two managers did not get tossed together.

    Gardenhire and the Twins catcher Redmond got tossed in the top of the 7th, in connection with a really close play at the plate.

    Francona and Varitek got tossed in the bottom of the seventh, I think over a ball and strike call but it wasn’t real clear to me exactly what happened.

  127. 50 Cents May 28th, 2009 at 3:44 pm

    I love how Cash is a straight-shooter… no BS, doesn’t sugarcoat things.

    Cashman is the man

  128. Another fan May 28th, 2009 at 3:45 pm

    3 and 2 to Span.

  129. Another fan May 28th, 2009 at 3:45 pm

    Wow, Span struck out. After three staright balls, three straight strikes.

    Terrible at bat, now even if Mauer goes deep they’re down.

  130. GreenBeret7 May 28th, 2009 at 3:45 pm

    SJ44
    May 28th, 2009 at 3:35 pm
    GB,

    Thanks for the tip. Its my first trip to Austin.

    I’m staying on 7th, about a mile from the ballpark. I’m always looking for good places to eat so, any suggestions are welcome. Thanks a lot.

    ————————————————————

    Not a problem. 7th street is within walking distance to everything except Zilker Park. The U of T, Guadalupe and the capitol building are all within 5-6 blocks. Some good theartres on Congress Ave for live shows. Food of all types everywhere along 6th street.

    Here are some great restaurants.

    Lamar and Barton Springs Road are too far to walk. Car rental is a must if you’re there longer than two days.

    http://maps.google.com/maps?so.....8;resnum=1

    I’ll link the hotels in a second.

  131. trisha - OPPC member May 28th, 2009 at 3:46 pm

    Thanks!!! I just got in, in time to see that stupid ridiculous Varitek showing up the ump so didn’t know the previous had happened.

  132. Another fan May 28th, 2009 at 3:46 pm

    0 and 2 to Mauer.

  133. Pel (Uncertainty is certain.) May 28th, 2009 at 3:46 pm

    wow this ump in the twinks game is terrible.

  134. Wombat Pete May 28th, 2009 at 3:46 pm

    Mariano was the best player on the Yankees in the championship period – because the starters came and went, because they didn’t have a Pedro.
    It was a team of really good parts, without a lot of all-time great superstars.
    If they DID have Pedro Martinez on that team, he would immediately have become their best player. Every possible measure of out-prevention ability would put the value Pedro’s 180-220 innings far, far above the value of Mariano’s 75. Not even close.
    And almost every starter would throw harder and have a lower ERA pitching fewer innings as a closer.
    Pedro would have been a lights-out eighth-inning guy.
    Randy Johnson would have been a lights-out eighth-inning guy.
    Santana would be a lights-out eighth-inning guy.
    Halladay would be a lights-out eighth-inning guy.
    Lester would be a lights-out eighth-inning guy.
    Price would be a lights-out eighth-inning guy.
    The only reason to make a really good pitcher pitch fewer innings as a reliever is if his body simply cannot handle starting – as was the case with Papelbon; or if his stuff just doesn’t stand up as a starter – as was the case with Mariano. Neither is true of Joba.
    This debate has to die and go away. Unfortunately, Mike Francesa may have to die before that can happen.

  135. trisha - OPPC member May 28th, 2009 at 3:47 pm

    Tough for Redmond to get tossed and Mauer to have to take over!

    :lol:

  136. Another fan May 28th, 2009 at 3:47 pm

    If Mauer can get on Morneau can tie it.

  137. Wave Your Hat May 28th, 2009 at 3:47 pm

    The manager and catcher from opposing teams being tossed together but in separate incidents in sequential half-innings is one of the rarest plays in sports….

  138. Matt May 28th, 2009 at 3:47 pm

    Forget DeRosa….

    Go out and get Leo Nunez

  139. Laura - Win together, strike out alone! May 28th, 2009 at 3:47 pm

    They are crucifying this Mutts rookie for not running when 30% of MLB doesn’t run on pop ups. I’m not saying that’s right; I’m just saying that they are blowing this out of proportion.

  140. spark May 28th, 2009 at 3:47 pm

    “Hey guys, Tek is only batting like 240 something.”

    Just getting stronger is not going to make you a better hitter when you’re 36, but it will give the balls you hit better distance, thus the 10 HR’s from a guy who looked done last year.

    His career high in HR’s is 25. He hit 13 last year. He’s on pace for 42.

  141. Another fan May 28th, 2009 at 3:48 pm

    Mauer out.

    Twisn are gonna lose this one unless a miracle occurs. And then we’re a half game behind the Sox.

    Tied in the loss column, but still.

  142. E-gawa May 28th, 2009 at 3:48 pm

    “E-gawa: My points are being misconstrued.

    When Bob Gibson and Ryan STARTED OUT, people didn’t look and say, “wow, great bullpen guys”. They said great strters. Same with David Price.

    By the way, that’s where we disagree. Joba is young and doing better than most pitchers in their first season’s starting, I absolutely think he could be a HOF dominant pitcher one day, he has that potential.

    And his innings limit does have to do with it. W/o it, he’d be throwing 120 pitches.”

    In Bob Gibson and Nolan Ryan’s time… There were no such things as inning counts and pitch counts. The game of today is completely different. You can’t compare the two.

  143. randy l. May 28th, 2009 at 3:48 pm

    “I don’t think he will hit for a high average. However, in the last year, he has improved both his eye and his plate coverage. ”

    sj44-

    is tony right eyed or left eyed dominant?

  144. 34 Score May 28th, 2009 at 3:49 pm

    Hope the Indians/Rays gets resumed and Cleveland has to go through the bullpen.

    But not like it matters tomorrow, because Lee is a workhorse.

  145. spark May 28th, 2009 at 3:49 pm

    Entering this year, his 3rd in the majors, Joba Chamberlain, age 23, had thrown 124 innings.

    Entering Roy Holladay’s 3rd year in the majors, he had thrown 163 innings. In that 3rd year, he proceded to go 4-7 with a…wait for it…10.64 ERA. He was 23. Two years after that he went 19-7. The next year he won the Cy Young.

    Patience, people. Patience.

  146. GreenBeret7 May 28th, 2009 at 3:49 pm

    My preference is the Driskill Hotel. Historic.

    http://www.google.com/search?s.....6th+street

  147. Another fan May 28th, 2009 at 3:49 pm

    Laura, I disagree; I just think every playr who doesn’t run out pop ups should be treated this way.

    The epitome of laziness.

  148. Brandon.. CashMoney: "his contract says baseball player, not starter" May 28th, 2009 at 3:50 pm

    Come on M&M boys !

  149. Doreen May 28th, 2009 at 3:50 pm

    I’m sorry for my ignorance, but who is Marchand?

  150. SJ44 May 28th, 2009 at 3:50 pm

    GB,

    I have a rental car, and am staying at the Sheraton on 7th. Its about a mile from the ballpark.

    Thanks a lot for food suggestions. I’ll definitely check them out.

  151. Glover May 28th, 2009 at 3:50 pm

    I guess the tie for 1st place was short lived.. BOS will be a game ahead in the win column barring a miracle

  152. Laura - Win together, strike out alone! May 28th, 2009 at 3:50 pm

    “Just getting stronger is not going to make you a better hitter when you’re 36, but it will give the balls you hit better distance, thus the 10 HR’s from a guy who looked done last year.”

    Looked done? Last year during the game, they would shovel dirt on him to help speed up the burial process. He’s on something; probably something the tests won’t detect.

  153. Rachel May 28th, 2009 at 3:51 pm

    “Marchand saying they may bring up Austin Jackson.”

    He obviously knows nothing about Jackson. Marchand made it sound like he is 100% ready and should be up here soon. Everyone knows Jackson needs to lower his strikesouts and work on hitting off speed pitches before they even consider bringing him up. Marchand probalby saw Jackson is hitting .340 and said oh he is ready without knowing anything else.

  154. Another fan May 28th, 2009 at 3:51 pm

    E-gawa: But today there are pitch counts, and w/o it Joba’d be going six or seven.

    Morneau singles. Next batter grounds out. Inning over.

    Mauer and Morneau not up, the game is not over, but certainly close.

  155. Hokiehill May 28th, 2009 at 3:51 pm

    I beg for a No “Francesca said this today” blog day and this is what I get…

  156. Ryan May 28th, 2009 at 3:51 pm

    Merchand is the “insider” of ESPN 1050 Radio

    He’s legit

  157. Pel (Uncertainty is certain.) May 28th, 2009 at 3:51 pm

    >I’m not saying that’s right; I’m just saying
    >that they are blowing this out of proportion.

    Instead of the fundamental futile trot to first, he stood there the entire time as he watched the catcher drop the ball. *THEN* he decides to run to first.

    Inexcusable. Pathetic, actually.

  158. Another fan May 28th, 2009 at 3:52 pm

    Glover-We ARE not playing today.

    Not that big a deal guys. We’re tied in the loss column.

  159. 4time May 28th, 2009 at 3:52 pm

    I doubt someone from ESPN would make up quotes from Brian Cashman about Wang.

  160. GreenBeret7 May 28th, 2009 at 3:52 pm

    trisha – OPPC member
    May 28th, 2009 at 3:40 pm
    So if either manager utters the magic words the other manager gets tossed?????

    ————————————————————

    Umpires are like sports writers. They get uppity when you question their ancestry and species.

  161. SJ44 May 28th, 2009 at 3:53 pm

    Randy,

    He wears contacts so, I don’t know which is his dominant eye.

  162. Another fan May 28th, 2009 at 3:53 pm

    Varitek is done. If he hits 240 with 30 HR’s, he’s still done.

  163. Christina - new pictures on the blog May 28th, 2009 at 3:53 pm

    I am off to see Kei Igawa in Syracuse. Does anyone have any kind words they would like me to pass on to him?

  164. Another fan May 28th, 2009 at 3:53 pm

    Twins get two outs on a DP.

  165. Brandon.. CashMoney: "his contract says baseball player, not starter" May 28th, 2009 at 3:54 pm

    “He obviously knows nothing about Jackson. Marchand made it sound like he is 100% ready and should be up here soon. Everyone knows Jackson needs to lower his strikesouts and work on hitting off speed pitches before they even consider bringing him up. Marchand probalby saw Jackson is hitting .340 and said oh he is ready without knowing anything else.”

    Yeh, he basically sasid they might not that they will. They won’t until September, Jackson likely is the 4th or 5th OF this season.

  166. Brandon.. CashMoney: "his contract says baseball player, not starter" May 28th, 2009 at 3:54 pm

    *said*

  167. SJ44 May 28th, 2009 at 3:54 pm

    The loss column is what matters. Hopefully, the place won’t be filled with Debbie Downers if the Sox win today.

  168. Laura - Win together, strike out alone! May 28th, 2009 at 3:55 pm

    “Laura, I disagree; I just think every playr who doesn’t run out pop ups should be treated this way. The epitome of laziness.”

    Hey, I think that all players should run out pop ups. That is one of my pet peeves about Manny. When he would be in one of his moods, he wouldn’t run down to 1st. Dude, you’re making 20mil a year. You can expend the energy and run to 1st!! That being said, Kay and Francessa were acting like this F-Mart kid (by the way, worst.nickname.ever!) beat up an old lady. Manuel should have taken him aside and schooled him on it. That would have been the end of it.

  169. Mike R. May 28th, 2009 at 3:55 pm

    Boston had sole possession of 1st place anyway considering they lead the season series. We were tied record-wise, but they still had the edge.

    Trying to seriously look at the standings this early is pointless. We are just past Memorial Day.

    The most important thing— 6 ahead of Tampa, our biggest challenger for a playoff spot. (Unless you think 2 teams from the Central/West are better than us).

  170. Pel (Uncertainty is certain.) May 28th, 2009 at 3:55 pm

    >I beg for a No “Francesca said this today” blog day and this is what I get…

    I begged for a moratorium on Joba/Bullpen & Yankee Stadium/Bandbox talk.

    I’m 0 for 2.

  171. Clare May 28th, 2009 at 3:55 pm

    SJ44,

    Austin is kind of lacking in the restaurants department. There’s nothing even close to Bern’s. :)

    That said, brunch at the Four Seasons is absolutely amazing. Jeffrey’s is probably the biggest “name” restaurant (W’s favorite) but I’ve only been once and was very disappointed. The “chain” steakhouses are all reliable (Flemings, etc.) – the best is III Forks (walking distance from where I’m assuming you’re staying on 7th). I think the best place for dinner is the restaurant at the Driskoll Hotel. Very traditional, and very pricey, but worth it.

  172. Another fan May 28th, 2009 at 3:55 pm

    Bottom of the ninth.

    Let’s see the Twinkies work some magic.

  173. John May 28th, 2009 at 3:56 pm

    I think the best idea in the world would be to simply take Joba, Burnett, and Sabathia and put them all in the pen. Why not? In the Mike Francesa world of baseball, the most important thing you can have is a great bullpen. If that’s the case, then the team’s best pitchers should be moved to the pen. Have Joba be your sixth inning guy. Burnett your seventh inning guy, CC in the eighth, and Mo in the ninth. The Yankees would never lose, right? You would have to have Kei Igawa in the rotation, along with Brett Tomko, but no worries. Starters are overrated anyway. We might as well make the move before the genius Red Sox realize their foolish mistake and put Lester and Beckett in the pen

  174. Greggor May 28th, 2009 at 3:57 pm

    Heres hoping Papelbon blows it, god I hate that guy.

  175. 66 stripes May 28th, 2009 at 3:57 pm

    It’s so depressing to watch baseball games in Domes

  176. SJ44 May 28th, 2009 at 3:57 pm

    I don’t know what Cashman said that is so out of line.

    Wang is in the bullpen right now. If he continues to pitch like he did last night, then the manager has to make a decision.

    When that time comes, a decision will be made. So far, there is no decision to be made.

    There is nothing controversial in what’s happening right now.

    I hope Wang continues to pitch like he did last night. If he does, and the Yankees have a decision to make, that’s a good thing because it would mean Wang is back.

  177. Another fan May 28th, 2009 at 3:57 pm

    Laura, you’re right about Manuel.

    And Mike R., they technically had the edge if it was the last day of the season. Since it wasn’t we could make up a game on them.

  178. ElGuapo May 28th, 2009 at 3:57 pm

    Pete,

    Next post please!!! Enough with the nonsense!!!

  179. Laura - Win together, strike out alone! May 28th, 2009 at 3:57 pm

    “Instead of the fundamental futile trot to first, he stood there the entire time as he watched the catcher drop the ball. THEN he decides to run to first.”

    Oh, I didn’t realize that the catcher dropped the ball. That’s actually worse!

  180. E-gawa May 28th, 2009 at 3:57 pm

    “E-gawa: Santana had a six ERA his first season.

    They didn’t give up on him and he did fine.”

    moving Joba to the pen isn’t giving up on him. He pitches better there. Santana didn’t pitch well when he was in the pen.

  181. trisha - OPPC member May 28th, 2009 at 3:57 pm

    Greggor – you read my mind.

  182. Steve B (Wouldn't it be cool if AJ's ERA was 3.14) May 28th, 2009 at 3:59 pm

    “The most important thing—- 6 ahead of Tampa, our biggest challenger for a playoff spot. (Unless you think 2 teams from the Central/West are better than us).”

    Can’t see the Wild Card coming out of anywhere but the AL East. Tampa may be in a bit of trouble, especially after losing thier middle infield. Not much good has happened since blowing that 10-0 lead on Monday.

  183. Another fan May 28th, 2009 at 3:59 pm

    E-gawa: So why is Price not in the pen? There isn’t even a debate.

    A good starter is more valuable than a good bullpen guy. And I meant giving up on him starting.

    Wow, Papelbon threw three balls to Crede.

  184. spark May 28th, 2009 at 3:59 pm

    papelbon only hitting 91 on the gun. OH MY GOD!!! The end of the world is near!!!!

  185. Sean Serritella May 28th, 2009 at 3:59 pm

    What I want to know is when are they going to take the kid gloves off of Joba. He pitched to the 7th inning only once this year.

  186. Another fan May 28th, 2009 at 3:59 pm

    I don’t care how we get in the playoffs, I’d be fine with wild card.

  187. Another fan May 28th, 2009 at 3:59 pm

    Papelbon works the count full on Crede.

  188. SJ44 May 28th, 2009 at 4:00 pm

    Clare,

    I love III Forks. There is one in Boca now and its great.

    Let me ask you, what are your suggestions for Tex-Mex, BBQ and a funky breakfast joint?

    I’m not going the fine dining route on this trip because I’m bring strictly casual clothes since its going to be smoking hot this weekend.

    At first thought, we are thinking of going Tex-Mex, a good BBQ place and a funky breakfast type of place.

    Any suggestions on those places are welcome. Thanks!

  189. Greggor May 28th, 2009 at 4:00 pm

    Trisha – I was watching Saturdays sox game with my 10 buddies (all sox fans). Papelbon blew it, I was sooooo happy! Haha, my friends were all about to murder me!

  190. YankeesLuv May 28th, 2009 at 4:01 pm

    LOL on Sweeney!

    Watching this bullpen this year can’t say I haven’t had thoughts of putting Joba back but overall I have to agree with you Pete. Shame on Sweeney for caving in, be your own man! lol ;)

  191. trisha - OPPC member May 28th, 2009 at 4:01 pm

    damn

    I do notice that fish face is more subdued on the mound.

    I agree about getting to the playoffs but we’re going to take the division so it doesn’t matter!

  192. Tom Clancey May 28th, 2009 at 4:01 pm

    This argument is perpetuated by seemingly bad analysts. In the 10 minutes I listened to sports radio, the two Mikes, the other being the voice of the yankees himself… were both debating this topic and leaning toward bullpen… Thanks Pete for continuing to make logical arguments.

  193. trisha - OPPC member May 28th, 2009 at 4:02 pm

    Delmon Young has been touted as being the better of the Young brothers.

    I am totally willing to believe that…

  194. E Money May 28th, 2009 at 4:02 pm

    This is a joke. Hughes has a chance to be one of the most dominant starters in the game. Joba has potential as a starter, but more as a solid 7th and 8th inning guy. Send him to the pen just like the did with Mo early in his career. I mean, we are going to need a closer in a few years, why not take the same route as the Mo/Wetteland combo.

  195. E-gawa May 28th, 2009 at 4:02 pm

    Another fan,

    Because Scott Kazmir went down. Had Kazmir not gone down, Price would still be in the minors.

  196. Brandon.. CashMoney: "his contract says baseball player, not starter" May 28th, 2009 at 4:03 pm

    YankeesLuv, he’s a phillies fan, that explains it.

  197. trisha - OPPC member May 28th, 2009 at 4:04 pm

    “Trisha – I was watching Saturdays sox game with my 10 buddies (all sox fans). Papelbon blew it, I was sooooo happy! Haha, my friends were all about to murder me!”

    What an unbelieveable thing of beauty that was. Even better was watching him fly out of the dugout like a witch on a broomstick to scream at the ump about a play at second!

    He’s an embarrassment.

  198. GreenBeret7 May 28th, 2009 at 4:05 pm

    SJ44
    May 28th, 2009 at 3:50 pm
    GB,

    I have a rental car, and am staying at the Sheraton on 7th. Its about a mile from the ballpark.

    Thanks a lot for food suggestions. I’ll definitely check them out.

    ————————————————————

    Good deal on the car. If you just want a pizza, Conan’s on Stassney Lane, West Anderson is the best Chicago deep dish. The savage is made with whole wheat dough and will bring tears of joy to your palate. For sandwiches, Schlotzsky’s is fantastic.

    A great seafood on Congress Ave. about 3 blocks from you. Just grab the phone book. you’ll gain weight just walking past the restaurants.

  199. spark May 28th, 2009 at 4:06 pm

    Mo was tried as a starter first but the guy had ONE PITCH that he could get hitters out with. It was a no brainer to move a guy like that to the bullpen.

    Joba has 4 pitches, 3 of them being above average.

    That is the difference. And it’s BIG difference.

  200. trisha - OPPC member May 28th, 2009 at 4:09 pm

    Well, even a blind squirrel finds a nut from time to time.

    Bah.

    We’ll own first tomorrow night.

    GO JAYS!!!!!

  201. gayle May 28th, 2009 at 4:10 pm

    SJ–

    Austin BBQ Ironhorse or Stubb’s is fun to go to you can see music as well

    Breakfast try the Old Pecan Street Cafe

  202. E-gawa May 28th, 2009 at 4:11 pm

    I’d rather see the Joba with 2 pitches and a 100+ MPH fastball late in the game.. than Joba with 4 pitches and a low 90s fastball that puts him in the same leagues as many other AVERAGE pitchers.

  203. vin May 28th, 2009 at 4:11 pm

    “He wears contacts so, I don’t know which is his dominant eye.”

    Quick way for anyone to determine which eye is dominant…

    Make an open triangle with your hands (by touching thumbs and index fingers to one another)

    Move this open triangle away from you, so its at arm’s length

    Focus on an object through the opening (with both eyes open)

    Close one eye, if the objects in focus don’t appear to “move” then that is the dominant eye.

    Make sense? The many joys of being married to an optometrist…

  204. DB - (officially panicked 5/13/09) May 28th, 2009 at 4:11 pm

    I guess Diet Coke doesn’t watch the Yankees, according to him nobody runs out popups anymore….The last Yankee to do that was run out of town for ARod…Alfonso

  205. vb03 - OPPC (Other Pitcher's Personal Catcher) May 28th, 2009 at 4:12 pm

    “Mo was tried as a starter first but the guy had ONE PITCH that he could get hitters out with.”

    Mo was a FAILED starter. He had 3 years worth of evidence in that regard.

    Joba hasn’t even had 2 years as a starter in the ML.

  206. Kevin S. May 28th, 2009 at 4:13 pm

    SJ44, Keith Law had this take on Tony Sanchez in his chat today: Ray (Boston): How do you see the major league prospects for Tony Sanchez? With the exception of power and feel for the game, his grades in the scouting report are average to below average, yet he’s still #30 on your board.

    SportsNation Keith Law: He’s #30 because he’s a catcher – an average bat and an average or fringe-average defensive catcher is still a pretty good prospect, at least in terms of asset value. And that’s what I think he is – he’s an everyday catcher who hits for power but not a great average.

  207. DB - (officially panicked 5/13/09) May 28th, 2009 at 4:15 pm

    Vin, niether one appeared to move..but both were blurry as hell until I blinked…perhaps I’m recessive in both :)

  208. SJ44 May 28th, 2009 at 4:15 pm

    That’s great Gayle, thanks.

  209. DB - (officially panicked 5/13/09) May 28th, 2009 at 4:16 pm

    Kevin, check an earlier thread…previously brought up and discussed…..good discussion

  210. SJ44 May 28th, 2009 at 4:16 pm

    I saw that Kevin, thanks.

  211. saucy May 28th, 2009 at 4:20 pm

    thanks for this post pete.

    i was going to ask in the comments if there was a good article/blog that i could send to someone, who’s obviously been brainwashed by Francessa!

  212. Steve May 28th, 2009 at 4:22 pm

    AMEN

  213. Tom Tresh 15 May 28th, 2009 at 4:23 pm

    Pete, You are absolutely 100% correct

  214. kph May 28th, 2009 at 4:25 pm

    I don’t think it’s “stupid” to want Joba in the bullpen given his results there compared to his results as a starter. I understand that he hasn’t had much time as a starter, but he didn’t have much time as a reliever either. The sample sizes aren’t too far off, and the results in one sample are much better than the other.

    Pete made the following argument:

    “Great starters don’t just float down from baseball heaven one day. They are developed, they make mistakes and learn from them, they gain experience.”

    But the same is true for dominant relievers:

    Great [relievers/closers] don’t just float down from baseball heaven one day. They are developed, they make mistakes and learn from them, they gain experience.”

    Obviously, there is a reasonable argument to both sides here and that’s why it has dragged on for so long. I don’t think it advances the ball at all to call one side “stupid,” however. Rather, it’s actually a close call.

  215. vb03 - OPPC (Other Pitcher's Personal Catcher) May 28th, 2009 at 4:31 pm

    “Rather, it’s actually a close call.”

    Not really. The league didn’t see Joba for that long as a reliever. He has such dominating stuff, that if you have never seen him before or only seen him once, he’d eat you alive.

    The idea here is to maximize your talent, if you can get 200 innings out of him instead of 60-70 (at a similar performance level), it’s a no-brainer.

    Once he has gotten a couple years under his belt as a starter, he will learn to harness his stuff over six to seven innings, instead of the one or two he would pitch in relief.

  216. Dr.M May 28th, 2009 at 4:47 pm

    Joba Chamberlain should be given another year as a starter before any verdict on him. He and Hughes surely sometimes struggle, but very few young greats didn’t (Wang passed with a flying color in his first MLB year, which we should appreciate.) The rotation of 2010 season will be Sabathia, Wang, Burnett, Joba and Hughes. Pettitte will be 99% gone. Joba will definitely be needed next year if Yankees wants to keep the spending down.
    The what to do this year? My solution is to start Wang and put Joba in pen for now. Wang is a pure starter who won’t be effective in reliever’s job. He is owed at least two starts by Yankees. Joba, on the other hand, is doing acceptably as a starter but excellent in setup role, who Yankees doesn’t have any now. How long Bruney will be out this time? Will he still be good after another comeback? Big question marks. Without Joba, we must pray on “Arsonist” Veras(!), Phil “See ya” Coke, journeyman Tomko, Robertson protecting 2-run lead. Not a champion-caliber bullpen, if you ask me.
    Give Wang two starts on Joba’s time. If he tanks, Joba gets his job back. If Wang excels, Joba stays as the setup man until Bruney is effective or another SP goes down. Burnett, Pettitte and Hughes will definitely have sore shoulder or elbow sometime this season. It’s all written on the wall. Joba will be back as a starter again.
    Joba is on 150-inning limit. He won’t make 25 starts anyway. Putting Joba in bullpen now also controls his innings. Remember, if Yankees go to playoffs, he and Hughes won’t start anyway.
    In summary, starting Wang and putting Joba in pen for now will solve most dilemmas.

  217. T15D23 May 28th, 2009 at 4:49 pm

    Pete, love ya, but Joba is not a starter and the longer we keep him in there, the worse off for the team.The rotation should settle in at CC, Wang, Pettitte, Burnett and Hughes. Joba for the 8th and Mo for the 9th. Why you or anyone believes that Joba is a starter is baffling as he is a failure as one. His numbers are as follows: Opposing hitters are 46-for-167 (.275) with six doubles, two triples and six home runs. They have an on-base percentage of .383 and a slugging percentage of .443.Out of the 118 major-league pitchers who have thrown at least 40 innings, Chamberlain’s 1.57 WHIP ranks 101st and his .383 opponents’ on-base percentage ranks 112th.
    Wishing for him to be great starter is one thing, but Joba is not anywhere near one and is wasting a rotation space and eating up our bullpen everytime out.

  218. T15D23 May 28th, 2009 at 4:50 pm

    Pete, love ya, but Joba is not a starter and the longer we keep him in there, the worse off for the team.

    The rotation should settle in at CC, Wang, Pettitte, Burnett and Hughes. Joba for the 8th and Mo for the 9th. Why you or anyone believes that Joba is a starter is baffling as he is a failure as one. His numbers are as follows:

    Opposing hitters are 46-for-167 (.275) with six doubles, two triples and six home runs. They have an on-base percentage of .383 and a slugging percentage of .443.Out of the 118 major-league pitchers who have thrown at least 40 innings, Chamberlain’s 1.57 WHIP ranks 101st and his .383 opponents’ on-base percentage ranks 112th.

    Wishing for him to be great starter is one thing, but Joba is not anywhere near one and is wasting a rotation space and eating up our bullpen everytime out.

  219. disco stu May 28th, 2009 at 4:57 pm

    Pete … you have to find a way to get on Mike’s show and argue your point … that would be great stuff going back at him about why Joba should stay in the rotation.

    Unlike callers that he conveniently hangs up on … OR … shouts them down if they disagree with his POV, you will at least be given the opportunity to go toe-to-toe and shove his pompous drivel back down his throat.

  220. thevauntedchris May 28th, 2009 at 5:13 pm

    Only 2 or 3 idiots that argued for Joba in the bullpen. Not as bad as I thought. I’m very proud of everyone.

  221. Gary SImms May 28th, 2009 at 5:36 pm

    I’m happy people are not pushing Joba to the pen, too. What a mistake that would be.

    How about CMW as a set up guy? Of does he give up too many grounders?

  222. kph May 28th, 2009 at 6:48 pm

    vb03 wrote:

    “The idea here is to maximize your talent, if you can get 200 innings out of him instead of 60-70 (at a similar performance level), it’s a no-brainer.”

    - The keyhere is ‘at a similar performance level.’ He has already shown that he can’t operate at his reliever performance level as a starting pitcher. He loses up to 9-10 mph on his velocity. Thus, the 200 vs. 60-70 inn. argument is far from a no-brainer. I’ll take 60 inn of dominant reliever Joba over 200 inn of mediocre starter Joba.

    “Once he has gotten a couple years under his belt as a starter, he will learn to harness his stuff over six to seven innings, instead of the one or two he would pitch in relief.”

    – But, as a reliever, there is no need to “learn to harness” anything. He is a dominant reliever, RIGHT NOW. No ifs ands or buts. What if he enver learns to harness anything over the next “couple years.” Why pass up the gold you know you have right now for the chance that he might be as good years down the line in a different role?

  223. DominicanYank May 28th, 2009 at 6:56 pm

    Zak Greinke was 5 and 17 with a 5.80 ERA 4 years ago. He’s 8-1 with a 0.84 ERA now…give Joba time to develop as a starter.

  224. thevauntedchris May 28th, 2009 at 7:27 pm

    Joba’s starts this year don’t even scream “mediocre starter.” Why are people calling him that? They scream “pitcher with digusting stuff learning how to start in the majors.” The guy has an ERA under 4 and hasn’t even come close to putting it all together. He has ALWAYS been a starter. Just because they were trying to control his innings limit one year and let him finish in the bullpen, we have this nonsense of a topic. I’ve said this before, please root for another sport that is easier for you people to understand.

  225. Kyle May 28th, 2009 at 7:32 pm

    I think you have to see if Joba can be a starter in 2009, but it’s not a clear cut decision.

    Many people like to selectively use his era or K’s per 9 as why he’s going to dominant as a starter. While completely ignoring the drop in velocity, low IP, high WHIP, and just Joba being inefficient with his pitches.

    Others simply use his relief appearances from 07 as why he should be in the pen. While completely ignoring that Joba is only 23 and was a starter his whole life until he was put in the pen in 07 b/c of an innings limit. He has 4 pitches. 08 was like a lost year in the sense that the Yankees completely mishandled Joba and he ended up getting hurt.

    There’s a lot to this debate. It changes greatly when you talk about Joba becoming the next closer as opposed to simply an 8th inning guy. I would hope that the Yankees can figure out in 2009 and 2010 what they have with Joba. In that time, we should be able to figure out if he’s the 2011 replacement of Rivera of if he’s going to be a starter.

  226. you gotta have faith (right porch giveth and the right porch taketh away) May 28th, 2009 at 9:33 pm

    thank you for the sanity pete!

  227. Thomas May 28th, 2009 at 10:00 pm

    Thank God the important people making the calls on such matters agree with you (and me) on this issue!!!
    I’m soooo tired of hearing about Joba to the Pen.

  228. EricNS May 29th, 2009 at 7:13 am

    Mike Lupica as well – but with that person enough said

  229. "Fake" John Locke May 29th, 2009 at 8:19 am

    Yes, lets keep Joba as a starter. Forget the fact that he is the BEST 7-8th inning reliever you can find and the Yankees have no bullpen. Forget the fact that we have 6 “starters” here including Joba. Your telling me we should stunt Hughes’s growth just so we can continue to see Joba every 5 or 6 days for his 5 innings and 100 pitchers of work?? Or let Wang continue to rot in the pen.. That’s valuable?

    Sorry until Joba learns that he doesnt have to strike everyone out, he will continue to give you 5 innings. How does Joba throwing 5 innings help this team? Put Joba in the pen where he belongs and he can strike out all he wants..

    And I didnt even bring up the velocity issue which is dipping with every start.

    Peter you are very wrong in this spot.. We dont need Joba to be the ace, thats why we spent 200+ million on 2 “ACES” in the offseason.. Plus add a back 2 back 19 game winner who isnt pitching.. Plus Andy.. Plus, oh yea that stud prospect we heard about for years who is finally get it together. Its obvious where Joba is needed.

    Red Sox were smart in keeping Papelbum a closer.. Too bad the Yankees are too stubborn to admit that maybe Joba isnt cut out to be a starter and will have no where near the amount of success he would have in the pen..

    07 Joba is a legend.. 09 Joba is a 5 inning average starter who is losing velocity in every start and throwing more pitches than you can count in the 1st inning.

  230. GeorgeInJax May 29th, 2009 at 9:55 am

    Robertson & Melancon are real upcoming talents in the bullpen, & we may suffer a few lumps just from lack of major league experience, but they have good “Stuff”. Melancon is more polished, but Robertson is a more devastating strikeout pitcher who needs to work on control.

    Let’s not derail Joba & Phil from thier debvelopement. Andy has been good, but how many more seasons does he have in him 1 or 2? Joba & Phil are doing fine. Depth at starting pitching is a great problem to have. If Kennedy wouldn’t have had the freak injury he would be in the mix too.

    OK, I must be totally nuts, but here goes:
    Kei Igawa has been throwing really well in Scranton and has been really consistent down there. He really doesn’t have much of a shot a breaking into the rotation unless there are a crapload of injuries. He’s not trade material with the big contract he has, so why not develope him into a long reliever or as a lefty spot reliever?

  231. JeterJobaFan May 29th, 2009 at 11:58 am

    Fake: Good name by the way. I agree %100 percent with Pete and others on this blog who say Joba should be a starter. Early in year Cashman said that Joba would be a starter this year and that he was a future ACE. A little later it was announced that Melacon would be the prospective closer when Mo retires. Takes the heat off Joba.

    All this panic about Joba seemed to start when Wang was about to return and Hughes had a (1) great game. Joba then was hit in the knee and had a poor game in a rain delayed game in his next start.

    When has a Yankee pitcher last pitched 12 SO’s in a game much less against Boston? Last year he beat Beckett 1-0 in Boston. You all know he has a golden arm – let him use it.

    Hughes and Kennedy were starters in 2007 and failed miserably. Didn’t win a game between them. They have been given chance after chance and that is all we are asking for Joba. Yes, we have aces now, but Joba and Phil are the future at 23 and 22.

    BoSox game: According to MLB.com, Tek was tossed for defending his pitcher. Both were upset at the umps call.
    Beckett allegedly cursed on the mound. Some say he said it to his dugout. But he said it. Beckett and Pap are such prima donnas. Lester is struggling – too many pitches???

  232. JeterJobaFan May 29th, 2009 at 12:14 pm

    This is one statement that I re-read. Sorry I didn’t get the name if the poster.

    April 30th, 2009 at 12:11 am (on Lo Hud)

    . . . “It’s baffling that there are people who think(Joba)is better off pitching 50+ innings a year instead of the 180+ innings he’ll impact as a very, very good starter.

    Effective relievers can be signed and developed. Potential aces come out of farm systems once every five years, or more. ”

    The second paragraph says it all.

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