Kids do the darndest things
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on May 31, 2009 
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The Yankees, to their credit, have finally embraced the idea of giving young players a chance. But that occasionally comes at a price.
Let us count the ways today:
Brett Gardner: He butchered a line drive to center by Asdrubal Cabrera in the fifth inning, costing the Yankees a run. Gardner thought it was off the end of the bat and it wasn’t. “If I step back instead of ahead, I catch that easily,” he said. Then Gardner failed to steal second as ordered in the ninth inning. He saw the sign, he just didn’t run. Gardner explained he was worried about being picked off.
“I cost us the game,” he said.
Not so fast …
Phil Coke: He walked No. 9 hitter Trevor Crowe to start the bottom of the ninth inning. Crowe is a .170 hitter. That’s inexcusable. Then Coke complained about the call after the game. This just in, you’re Phil Coke. You think the umpire is giving you borderline strikes?
Dave Robertson: He came in with a runner on second and walked Ben Francisco. Then he fell behind 3-1 to Jhonny Peralta and had to come in with a strike. Bang, game over. “I need to throw strikes,” Robertson said. “I don’t know what I was thinking.”
Phil Hughes: He deserves little blame. But four runs in five innings against a lineup missing Grady Sizemore and Victor Martinez is not a good job. Even if you toss out that last run because of Gardner’s poor play, three run in five innings is not remotely pitching well.
The good news? Chien-Ming Wang said he hasn’t felt this good since before he got hurt. He said he could throw 80 pitches in a start if given a chance and then get to 100 the time after that. Girardi said they’ll evaluate the situation and that the team still considers Wang a starter.
Frustrating indeed.
It is pretty inexcusable that Gardner was given the sign to steal and he simply didn’t do it. Posada was a pretty big risk to GIDP and that’s exactly what happened. Listen to your coaches Brett!
If Coke and Robertson don’t throw strikes… then throw them in the Veras/Edwar/Albaladejo bin.
The one guy who throws strikes is Tomko, and all his strikes are turned into hits.
Sorry for blaming Girardi. Gardner what were you thinking?
why didnt he run???
How did the bullpen become this bad?
Last year, we had one of the top bullpens and in the Spring. Veras, Edwar, Tomko, Albaladejo, Bruney, Robertson, Coke etc. all had sub 2 ERAs and we were talking about how deep we were and how we should trade some of these relievers because we had so many good ones.
Amazing how things change. Now, we don’t even have one reliable reliever.
“Then Gardner failed to steal second as ordered in the ninth inning. He saw the sign, he just didn’t run. Gardner explained he was worried about being picked off.”
Tell Gardner instead of costing us one run, he cost us 2.
We’re in the midst of a great run, you turkeys! We were a few mistakes away from another win…the run isn’t over…geesh – get a grip!
not sure where you stand Pete but I certainly want Wang back in the rotation. However, I hope it doesn’t come at the cost of Phil Hughes. He was shaky today but had Gardner not butchered that play, he likely would have had 6IP 3ER which would have been his 4th consecutive “quality start”
He seems to be finding his groove, now is not the time to send him down to face weaker competition.
Lets see how Joba performs tomorrow.
The good news? Chien-Ming Wang said he hasn’t felt this good since before he got hurt. He said he could throw 80 pitches in a start if given a chance and then get to 100 the time after that. Girardi said they’ll evaluate the situation and that the team still considers Wang a starter.
=======================================
Great news. Wang looked like Wang again.
“Now, we don’t even have one reliable reliever.”
Aside from Mariano Rivera you mean? How do you lose a game without having used your best reliever?
“I cost us the game,” he said
And bec of that i hate you!!! come back melky….
Gardner got thrown out by Ruiz last week.
He is no lock to make it safe.
Posada has to know to hit a flyball there.
Dear Melky, get better soon.
Girardi hasn’t been using his brain much while managing the bullpen. Bringing in Coke for the 9th against 3 righties? Coke can’t even get out lefties. He hasn’t been good at all recently, all while Robertson has shut down all 8 batters he faced since his call up.
Had Robertson gotten a fresh inning, things could have turned out way differently.
Nonetheless we also had Mariano.
From RAB. Girardi said that the Yanks did not want to overextend Wang because he is Wednesday’s emergency starter. It sounds as though Pettitte may not be able to make his next start, and the Yankees do not want to find themselves without options. Having Wang throw more pitches would have led to just that.
re-posting from the game thread:
Dr. Cox May 31st, 2009 at 4:54 pm
” Hughes gave up 4 runs to a Cleveland team without their best player
That should be where it all starts.”
Ive been posting here for a long time and still love seeing comments like this that completely lack any baseball knowledge.
So should Hughes have thrown a perfect game today? no-hitter? These are professional hitters and can hit anyone, otherwise they wouldnt be there.
1st rule of baseball: Anyone can beat anyone on any given day.
===================================
Agreed.
Hope you had fun at the game yesterday Dr. Cox.
Sounds like Girardi didn’t want to talk about the Gardner situation. (it has been addressed, he said)
The thing is – there were 5 pitches to Posada. Was the steal sign just on when the count was 2-2?
If the steal sign was on earlier and Gardner didn’t go, it seems the base coach would have addressed it.
anyways, it’s over. can’t cry over spilled milk. A win tomorrow it the best cure for a loss today.
this must be the worst 29-21 team ever by the way some people talk about it…this team will be better by seasons end..melancon will get a chance, cashman will try his hardest to find a reliever (if not more than 1) that fits our plan and our financial and farm system limits…this is a good team…repeat it with me, this. is. a. good. team..
Coke complaining about the umps lol
Back to AAA for him. 5.06 ERA in May. Certainly we have someone better… right?
Put Joba in the freaking bullpen for christ sake.
Yes REZ, JoPo was trying to hit into a DP – if he had only known to hit a fly ball like you told him to…wow – that’s something.
“Gardner got thrown out by Ruiz last week.
He is no lock to make it safe.
Posada has to know to hit a flyball there.”
He was ordered to run and didn’t, that’s terrible right there.
AD May 31st, 2009 at 5:09 pm
From RAB. Girardi said that the Yanks did not want to overextend Wang because he is Wednesday’s emergency starter. It sounds as though Pettitte may not be able to make his next start, and the Yankees do not want to find themselves without options. Having Wang throw more pitches would have led to just that.
Girardi is just defending him self, you cant beleive a word he says.
If Robertson wants to gain his manager’s trust, he has to come in the game in big spots and get outs.
Pitching in 8-3 games and 7-3 games isin’t going to do anything for him. We have plenty of relievers who can do that.
He may not always get a “clean inning”. Relievers can be called upon at any time.
lswaha May 31st, 2009 at 5:11 pm
Put Joba in the freaking bullpen for christ sake.
————
Nope. Ain’t happening.
Joba wouldn’t be the cure all anyways.
Any one think Gardner was instructed to say he got the sign but didn’t run because he’s afraid of picked off? I thought Brett was proud of his speed and he’s afraid of being picked off? C’mon, you can give us a better reason. Good way to protect a bad call from the coaching.
Wang should be a started as soon as possible. But he seemed to be tired after 3 innings of pitching. He needs consistent outings to be able to pitch 100+ per game.
The Yankees must have extended their payroll. As Tonto said to the Lone Ranger – “What’s that us, White Man”
Joba should stay in the rotation. Joba and Bruney would be nice though.
Why is Melancon in AAA when Tomko/Veras/Coke etc. are up here?
randy l.
May 31st, 2009 at 5:03 pm
gb7 and cb-
thanks for your reports.
that’s music to my ears.
wang coming back to what he was will be huge . they lost a game today they could have won, but wang doing this well makes it overall a good day.
————————————————————
If Pettitte starts on Wednesday, I’d bet on 5 innings and gone….then give wang the final 4 innings if the game so dictates it. If all goes well, I’d look for him getting somebody’s start just to give that starter a breather….my guess is that it’s Hughes or Chamberlain, or, possibly Pettitte, depending on health.
Not an enjoyable game.
To me the one who hurt us the most was Dave Eiland.
Third inning Hughes just walked a batter to load the bases, Eiland gives Hughes a “talk”. (If I am Peralta I am sitting on a fastball.) What a shock a fastball!
With a rookie pitcher and catcher, the blame for that whole sequence is on the coaches.
On the positive side Wang and Hughes were both real good.
Dom May 31st, 2009 at 5:15 pm
Why is Melancon in AAA when Tomko/Veras/Coke etc. are up here?
Remember when Melancon gave up that double to blow a game? Then he walked the bases loaded against Boston in a close game? The kid aint ready.
Joba in the pen, then what?
What if he was used on Friday for 2 innings and not available today?
You need more that one reliever. I mean, right now we have none, but still. You can’t pitch Joba every inning of every game.
You need 3-4 guys in the pen who can step up. You can’t have a pen full of mop up relievers like we do right now.
Uh oh the conspiracy theorists are out in force. I am exiting stage left.
So next time Cabrera costs us a game it’ll be “Come back Gardner”. Hey, Gardner manned up. On to the next game.
If the yanks make the playoffs, Joba will be in the bullpen, so i dont mind him being a starter.
Don’t lump in Tomko with Veras and Coke. He’s been effective when rarely used.
He *refused* to run?
Girardi should refuse to play him.
Nobody is trading with us at the end of May
Check back in a month and maybe there might be some movement on the trade talks, but 2 months is more likely. The week of the July 31st trade deadline is when most of the activity is.
So basically… this is our bullpen for the foreseeable future. And you know what that means? We better not play many close games or we’re going to end up on the wrong end of them.
Melancon can make an impact in this pen. Girardi just didn’t give him much of a chance.
I understand Melancon wasn’t very good in a couple of those outings but guys like Coke, Veras, and Albaladejo have been given far more chances to show something after bad outings.
Yeah the Yankees are on this terrible losing streak because of the BP. Too DOM dumb in here, I’m out.
Melancon was up for 9 games and he was used in 4 of them. Almost every other day.
He was used in 2 blowout situations. Then Girardi put him in a big spot against the Angels and he couldn’t get out of it.
Then he put him in a 6-3 game in the top of the 9th… not a big spot, and he walked the bases loaded.
The Yankee pen will be fine for awhile as long as they continue to get good starting pitching.
It’s when the starters don’t pitch well or give them length that the pen is exposed.
They will be fine for now but they do need to shake things up a bit.
Joba to the bullpen, again?? At least the Yanks are always winning with Bullpen Joba in this other dimension. The only thing I’m disappointed with is that Hughes couldn’t put together another dominant start. Let’s hope Joba can not pitch around every hitter tomorrow.
Bo,
If you play with fire, you’ll eventually get burned. We play with fire everytime the bullpen enters the game.
If Coke doesn’t throw strikes either, how is he different from Veras?
Walking the .178 hitting 9th hitter is just inexcusable. Ever since that Minnesota series, he has been absolutely brutal.
Boston can throw Delcarmen, Okijima, Ramirez, Saito, Bard at you
We throw Tomko, Veras, Coke, Robertson etc. at you
Ultimately, that will manifest itself over the course of 162. Once the offense cools off, we’re in real trouble with this bullpen.
The Yankees are going to lose a lot more games than this one, so while I’m disappointed – hey, you move on.
I’m iffy on Coke, who isn’t so great, and Robertson struggled today, but Wang threw 3 scoreless and the team came back yet again in the late innings. That’s scary for the opposition, even if the Yankees end up losing. The Yankees are great on the road – you just move on from a loss, that’s all.
Too bad that Phil didn’t pitch well, but he’s a kid and it happens.
He was used in 2 blowout situations. Then Girardi put him in a big spot against the Angels and he couldn’t get out of it.
Then he put him in a 6-3 game in the top of the 9th… not a big spot, and he walked the bases loaded.
—————
He was given four opportunities; two good and two bad.
We’ve seen Coke, Veras, Albaladejo, Ramirez, etc, etc, get far more opportunities to do something and couldn’t do it.
Veras alone has had four times as many rough outings as Melancon did.
I am surprised with Gardner, I expected him to play better. I hope he’s a quick learning. When Melky was called up, he looked lost.
melky was 19 when he was called up.
**oops** I think melky was 20-21.
Vizcaino has a 1.80 ERA for Cleveland.
It’s no lock we score off of him in the 10th.
But this bullpen is very very bad. And I don’t even know how Cashman fixes it.
Melancon, Coke, Robertson…Why are we living this way? Our best team is obviously Wang and Hughes in the rotation and Joba in a bullpen that is presently one of the thinnest in baseball. Too bad it will take until September for it to be that way as the agendas play out.
Geez, we’re in first place and have won 14 of 18, yet people are whining. Nothing is ever good enough – unbeliveable.
If it’s true that Brett did not run and he had orders too, I bench him……..that’s inexcusable.
Imagine not doing something your boss told you to do.
“Tom why didn’t you grade the finals? Because of you 40 people didn’t graduate”
“I didn’t feel like it.”
Good teams bounce back from these brutal losses.
We face some mediocre young lefty with a 7 ERA tomorrow (we’ve faced him before a couple years ago). Go out there and pound him and finish the road trip strong.
Of course, with Joba on the mound, you never know what you will get. But the offense should win the game tomorrow.
bench him? yeah too bad we can’t play with 2 OF’s
The good thing is we have Aceves available tomorrow when Joba gets to 100 pitches in 4.2 innings
GARDNER we can’t wait for Melky’s return.
Yeah… bench Gardner and play a hurting Melky out there
Brilliant.
Yanks failure to execute today cost them the game…..Is it written in law that Rivera must only pitch with the lead ??? Also Wang could have gone another inning….Even if you throw out Gardner’s misplay in center, the game came down to the ninth…..Leadoff walks, you just cannot defend them…Literally and defensively….
I don’t think Gardner just flat out refused to run. He probably just didn’t get a good read on Wood for whatever reason.
We’ve seen Gardner on First Base a few times this season where he didn’t run when everyone expected him to.
I tend to doubt that he just refused to run.
We need to fix this pen ASAP. It is going to cost us down the line. No excuse that a team with a $200 million dollar payroll has this awful bullpen
Pete, you blame the “kids” and yes, they will make mistakes, but this one is on Girardi all the way because Coke and Robertson should NEVER HAVE BEEN IN THE GAME. He treated Wang like a bullpen reliever instead of a starter, and Wang was mowing ‘em down.
But then again, it’s the kind of managing you get from a guy only in his third year.
This one is on Girardi and I only hope we don’t look back on this one at the end of the season. Hopefully it’s just a footnote – the game that got Wang back into the rotation.
Gardner seems to be either too aggressive (reckless at times on the basepath, playing pop flies to center into doubles) or (now, apparently) too timid. Rookie mistakes are to be expected, but he seems to lacking a certain amount of baseball smarts. Hopefully he’s learning.
As a rookie, would it not be better to get thrown out than just not run? Joe must not be too trilled. It will be interesting to see how long he sits now that Melky is back.
Betsy May 31st, 2009 at 5:32 pm
Geez, we’re in first place and have won 14 of 18, yet people are whining. Nothing is ever good enough – unbeliveable.
————-
That’s what people do here. It shouldn’t surprise anyone.
This place always turns into a toilet when the Yanks lose.
No big deal. Go get ‘em tomorrow.
Again – Is this game that important that we need to use MO for 2 innings on the road?
Is it too much to ask our “setup men” to get the bottom of the Cleveland order out? It just shows how bad the bullpen is.
Even though the Yankees have been playing well for a couple of weeks now, the bullpen has not been a major contributor.
Take away the blowout wins, the come-from-behind walk-offs, CC and Hughes’ 8 inning performances, and games where Aceves went multiple innings, and how many wins are left?
My point is, even during this recent stretch of good baseball, the Yankees have won games because of their starting pitching, offense, and Aceves. The rest of the bullpen (except Mo) has always remained questionable.
It just stinks that when you win the first 2 games of the series, and then only get a split
You take the split if you lost the 1st two or if it is 1-1 after 2 games.
Panic on LoHud after a Yankee loss? This is new.
“Take away the blowout wins, the come-from-behind walk-offs, CC and Hughes’ 8 inning performances, and games where Aceves went multiple innings, and how many wins are left?”
Which is why Cashman has to fix it if he wants this run to continue. We’ve been doing it INSPITE of the bullpen. Whenever the pen has been called upon during this streak, they have failed us.
Once the offense cools off and we are playing some close games in a row, it is really going to hurt us.
Mark May 31st, 2009 at 5:40 pm
It just stinks that when you win the first 2 games of the series, and then only get a split
——————-
Boy, they must have played worse than I thought. MLB is handing them a loss for tomorrow as well before the first pitch.
Damn.
Good grief. Get a freaking clue.
Actually, Hughes doesn’t deserve any blame at all. He struck out six and walked one. Choo got hit because he was crowding the plate and didn’t move very much. Hughes didn’t give up a home run. A couple of those hits were dinks and dunks. I don’t want to make too many excuses, but quite frankly, Hughes got screwed by some crappy luck.
*Giuseppe Franco* ,
go back to previous thread,Gardner is on tape saying he chose to ignore the signal,in his own words. He said after the game Joe spoke to him about his *choice* *to ignore the signal* .
So where do the geniuses want us to go for bullpen help?
Chad Qualls isin’t coming to the AL and shutting down teams in the 8th.
Houston Street or Leo Nunez ain’t coming cheap.
You want Russ Springer? Farnsworth again? Some other mediocre veteran?
The bullpen is what it is. There is no outside solution unless Cashman wants to give up something good. Nobody is giving us Street for Igawa, Duncan, and Veras.
We’re just going to have to live with this pen.
Interesting game with Charleston. Charleston has a 1-0 lead on John Smoltz after 5 innings. Brackman had control issues today. 4.2 innings, 4 hits, 0 runs 4 walks and 6 strikeouts. He also hit a batter and had 2 more wild pitches. He’s learning and getting his innings, again.
A smart organization would realize that Melancon is better than Veras or Tomko and have him up here
Melancon with some growing pains > Veras/Tomko
“kids do the darndest thing”
Um, no.
What happened to Posada, a veteran, who couldn’t hit a sac fly even if his life was depended on it.
How does he get off scotch free?
112 games left folks.
All silliness aside, this team will be fine. Especially once Bruney treturns.
Wow, I forgot all about Smoltz
The Sux have an embarrassment of riches. Just ridiculous depth and a shut down bullpen as it is.
We might need to trade with them to fix the pen LOL
Let’s try and take some positives from this loss:
1. Wang looked like his old, dominating self.
2. Carl Pavano did not get the win.
3. Hughes struggled, but showed progression by continuing a great K:BB ratio (now 21:3 in his last 3 starts).
4. Errorless streak reached 17 games, which ties the major-league record.
5. Still in first place
4 rings!!!
funny comment pete on phil coke.
could someone please get an update on damaso marte? Or do we have to wait out 3 years wait for him to take another contract and thrive like pavano?
SO ugly. You people are just so darn ugly.
Great post RS.
well i though hughes caught a bad few breaks, hbp did him in today
Yes, great post, RS.
GF, it’s really sad – someone always has to be blamed for something. Really – does anyone think the Yankees aren’t going to lose anymore games this year? I was out, but obviously from what I’ve read, he wanted to reserve Wang a bit in case Andy can’t go. Why kill Joe on that? It doesn’t sound like the Yankees played that great a game today – it happens. I’m disappointed, like I am at every loss, but I would be an ungrateful fan if I got pissed off because of one game. This is a really good team, not just talented, but very tough – once again they came back in the late innings. I’m very concerned about the pen – it could be the death of them. See this is what I was talking about with the youngsters like Robertson. He didn’t pitch well at all today – are fans (who clamored for him to be called up) going to be patient with him? Coke has been really iffy – he’s not terrible, he’s decent…..but he’s unreliable at this point.
I missed Phil and Pete made it sound like he didn’t do so well, but mostly I’ve read that he looked ok….not bad. True? In any case, once Wang comes back into the rotation, Phil should go back down to AAA. He’s made substantial progress and that’s encouraging.
“Matt M. May 31st, 2009 at 5:05 pm
How did the bullpen become this bad?
Last year, we had one of the top bullpens and in the Spring. Veras, Edwar, Tomko, Albaladejo, Bruney, Robertson, Coke etc. all had sub 2 ERAs and we were talking about how deep we were and how we should trade some of these relievers because we had so many good ones.
Amazing how things change. Now, we don’t even have one reliable reliever.”
I was saying all spring how questionable the pen was. And everyone ridiculed me. I don’t know how anyone could have thought this was a strength. Which one of those guys has had more than one decent year??? Exactly….
“Wow, I forgot all about Smoltz
The Sux have an embarrassment of riches. Just ridiculous depth and a shut down bullpen as it is.”
Smoltz will almost definitely go to the rotation. The Sox have a great bullpen, but none of their starters has an ERA under 4.50. I believe they are trying to trade Penny, because they also have Buchholz as an option for the rotation.
yanks 1927,
You mean we’re not going to get Rafael Soriano or Brad Ziegler for Josh Towers and cash?
I agree with you though. There is very little Cash can do unless he wants to part with guys like McAllister, Jackson, Romine, etc. Kennedy is injured obviously, he could have been one of those guys who could have been attractive for other teams. We don’t have another guy like that. Kontos isin’t on that level.
Getting Wang back to being Wang will also help out the pen tremendously because he’s a guy who always gave them a lot of length.
It’s not a coincidence that the pen has been considerably better while the rotation has stepped it up since A-Rod’s return.
Once again this division has become what has always been, Yankees-Red Sox. Right now we have the 1/2 game age but they have the bullpen. As long as we can stay in it til the trading deadline hopefully we can pick up a Huston Street or another reliable arm.
*edge
*Yankees special=hit into Dbl play* .
Who has mastered it, Jeter,Damon,and Jorge,count on it.
Red Sox rotation will turn around soon enough.
Beckett has already pitched a couple gems, Lester tossed one today.
Smotlz could be a big boost for them in whatever role. Their bullpen is so good though, they need him in the rotation.
But then where do they put Buchholz?
I hate them, but damn, they are loaded.
Agree.
Wang needs to go back in the rotation. Having that 7 inning horse there behind CC will be invaluable.
Adds another “sure thing” to the rotation rather than flipping a coin with Hughes/Joba go out there.
check out your stats on the DPs, vey – don’t be a goober.
Burnett has always broken down in non-contract years
Pettitte is 37 and has battled elbow/back problems in the past… should have been shut down last year in August.
Joba has innings limits and he too has had injury problems in the past.
Hughes will have plenty of opportunities to pitch ip here. If he doesn’t, that’s a good thing. That means we are cruising and healthy.
Betsy,
Absolutely not. The brain dead are not going to be patient and it wouldn’t matter if this team won 110 games.
I like Robertson myself. He’s not going to be perfect every time he goes out there but he’s got the stuff to get hitters out.
But what I’m afraid of is Girardi now letting Robertson rot out there for awhile as a result of today’s outing.
I just really hope that Wang is back to being Wang. Having him back in the rotation would be a huge boost.
Hughes had some bad luck, but let’s be fair..
He was facing a last place Cleveland team without their 3 best hitters (Sizemore, Martinez, Hafner). The lineup he faced today is even worse than one he would face in Scranton.
You would think he could have done better than 5 IP, 4 ER.
Sando, ok the Sox are loaded…….and the Yankees aren’t? What is it about the Sox that makes everyone quake in their boots? I respect them enormously as a very good team, but they have their flaws just like the Yankees……..we have a bunch of Mike Francescas here who see the Sox through Sox colored glasses.
Betsy-Phil performed pretty okay today if ya ask me. There was that one “ugh” inning but overall, I still love what we have been seeing from Hughesie in his time up here.
The most important thing for me today was Wang. He looked like Wang again. He’ll be back in the rotation soon enough.
Tomorrow’s it’s Jobber’s turn. I’m hoping for a nice strong outing from him
*stop*
C/O Jeter dbl play and Damon,you’re blind.
Wang has to go back to the rotation.
As much as I love Hughes, the Yankees can’t risk having both him and Joba in the rotaiton. They need length and Wang gives them that.
Yeah, I wonder what the Sox will do with Smoltz and Buchholz. Good position to be in. They are rightfully selling high on Penny.
You can’t live with growing pains from 2 young pitchers at the same time.
Wang needs to come back and add stability to the rotation. He is looking like the old Wang.
Tomko hasn’t pitched in a week, why is he even up here instead of Melancon?
Matty, Phil is 22 years old – you know what the Yankees do as an organization? They live with his growing pains – the kid is very talented and has the stuff to be a terrific pitcher. What’s that expression? Young pitching is like a box of chocolates – you never know what you’re going to get from time to time? Or is that from Forrest Gumnp, lol? The point is, it’s true.
GF, I hope you’re right about Robertson and wrong about Girardi. He should get a shot – give the kid a chance to prove that he can (or can’t) get it done. This is what he did last year – he didn’t punish bad performances by sending the relievers to the doghouse and they rewarded his faith with good performances later. No youngster can ever learn by being forced to sit for a week or so based on a bad outing. What it will do is cause him to lose faith and get frustrated…..not a good thing.
If for nothing else than Wang’s outing, this was not a bad day in the usual sense. Having Wang start to regain some of his old luster is just huge for this team.
Boston’s holes will sort itself out. Beckett is pitching like Beckett lately. Lester isin’t going to pitch terribly forever. Penny will be gone soon. Their solutions are all in house, they have 7 starters.
Unfortunately for us, our bullpen solutions are not in house. There is not a single relief pitcher, here or the minors, that can save us. It is going to be a huge problem for us. The last 3 games they have “come back”, we lost because the pen couldn’t hold it. There is no help on the horizon.
Boston’s rotation hole is much much more likely to improve than our bullpen hole is.
the sox have a shut down bullpen???
how many times this year has papelbon come in and nearly blown the game? they do not have a shut down bullpen and we still have a better team.
I may be moving slowly to the “jobber to the pen” talk.
Not because he can’t be a good starter, but because we know he can throw straight HEAT and nasty breaking stuff when coming out of the pen. No one else can do that, and that is what we will need in the end to win a championship.
Sad/sucks but true
Girardi has a doghouse?
Tell that to Coke, Veras, Edwar, Albaladejo etc. who could screw up time after time and still get sent out there again.
Where do people come up with this stuff? Just because they sent down Melancon after 3 bad outings?
I’m sure Cashman will find a way to fix the bullpen. Say what you want about some of his questionable FA signings, but he has always delivered at the trade deadline (Abreu, Molina, Nady and Marte).
And really, the Yankees just need to find a way to get to the postseason. If they can make the playoffs without a top-notch bullpen, then great. Because more than likely, Joba and Hughes will pitch as relievers in the postseason.
If I were the team (nevermind Joe), I would be furious at Gardner. He’s scared? What a wimp – he’s got elite speed and a ten cent brain. He also doesn’t seem to have guts on the basepaths – there’s just no excuses for this guy anymore. You can’t teach instincts….maybe I shouldn’t say BG has no guts, but rather no instincts (like Bernie).
HOWEVER………The team is in first place and playing great – I’m not going to have a cow after one loss.
“how many times this year has papelbon come in and nearly blown the game? ”
well nearly ain’t good enough is it? They have a couple of flamethrowers(papelbon/bard/declarman), a proven closer for a setup man(saito), and also okajima and ramon ramirez
Evolution,
Same here. I was always a “joba in the rotation” guy, but this bullpen is just deplorable. And there is no solution to fix it. We have ONE weakness, a glaring weakness and that is the pen.
It’s like the Yankees don’t want to be a complete team. They are content with having a glaring hole in the pen while having too many starters.
The 3 games we lost during this stretch? All 3 losses recorded to the bullpen. It is our only hole.
Actually, by September we could have a bullpen of Bruney, Marte, Aceves, Melancon, and Joba (innings limit).
Evolution….I am with you in that line of thinking. I understand Joba was a starter in college, drafted by the Yanks as a starter, and pitched in the minor leagues as a starter and all that, but what good will it do for the teams to see Joba pitch 5-6 solid innings just to see it be washed away by an awful bullpen? It won’t do any good if you ask me.
The whole game came down to the 9th inning…..Gardner doesn’t steal 2nd on a 2-1 count…Then Posada bounces into a dp…..Coke walks the leadoff hitter, etc…..
PA Dave, I guess if people want to be negative about this team, it’s their prerogative. The Sox went on a 12 game winning streak earlier this year and were 5-0 against a struggling Yankees team. They couldn’t put us away……..and we are now close to being hole again, still in first place. Sure, Beckett’s pitching better – he’s a good pitcher, I didn’t expect him to crap out all year. Lester has not been good this year, but I expect him to settle down. However, Wang is rounding into form and once he,’s in the rotation, that is huge for the Yankees. He’s a very good pitcher and he eats innings. Phil has made quite a bit of progress and he can get more work in in AAA – we’ll see him again.
For a first place team with a very good record both at home and on the road (which I like to see, I hate teams that can only win at home), for a team that has come back as often as it has, for a team with good to very good SP…………the Yanks sure get crapped on by their fans.
Maybe Gardner was paying homage to a favorite Seinfeld episode:
“I choose not to run!”
Dr. Cox, never saw you or your sign yesterday, but you picked a good game to attend.
If anyone is in Larkspur, CA, and feels like talking baseball, drop by the dog run in Piper Park. Fair warning: I’m training the dog to bite Joba/bullpen people.
The first step in fixing our pen is getting a better pitching coach. Nothing personal against Eiland. Just too many issues this year starting with Wang.
Hughes pitched a good game today. The three run third inning was a double on a real good low inside pitch, a single on perfectly placed bloop, walk on a 3-2 curveball (only bb of the day), After visit to mound, first pitch belt high fastball 2 rbi single, hit batter and a sac.
If anything the 3-2 pitch should have been a fastball and the first pitch to peralta a curveball. I know what they say about hindsight, but I was saying that as it was happening. That was a bad sequence that IMO cost us the game. Not Hughes or Cervelli’s fault.
“Actually, by September we could have a bullpen of Bruney, Marte, Aceves, Melancon, and Joba (innings limit).”
If that were the bullpen now, we would win 110 games.
Boston’s bullpen:
Delcarmen – 1.23 ERA (22 innings)
Okijima – 2.45 ERA (22 innings)
Ramirez – 1.44 ERA (25 innings)
Saito – 3.00 ERA (18 innings)
Bard – 1.08 ERA (8 innings, their version of Melancon)
Do I even need to post our bullpen stats compared to that? Boston has FIVE guys with ERA’s under 3. Five. Boston has as many guys with ERAs under 3 that we do guys with ERA’s over 5.
Saying the differences between the 2 pens is like night and say would be an understatement….
Yup, I know joba can be an Ace. He has the stuff and the pitches to be that dominant strikeout ace.
However, he isn’t doing that right now and we don’t really have the luxury to “develop” a pitcher on the job right now. His numbers right now are league average. Yeah he may be the next greinke, but that will require us putting him out there for a year or two for average numbers. We can easily acquire a cheap starter if we wanted average numbers, or we can be smart and put hughes out there who will give the same numbers joba has been giving.
But the demeanor Joba has on the mound in the 8th inning is irreplaceable, and a shutdown guy like that is priceless.
PA Dave,
Exactly right. Boston will start firing on all cylinders soon. We need to fix the bullpen if we want this first place stay to last.
Why does everyone want to send Phil Hughes down and not Joba?
Absolutely agree Evolution with everything that you just said.
if that was struggling I wil ltake it every time from Hughes. he battled and with some luck would have given up 3 or less runs.
the yanks lost the game in the top of the 9th. gardner has to use his speed that is why he is here..
coke and the other bullpen arms must throw strikes especially to 9th place hitters.
melancon has pitched 4 games in the majors, have you ever heard of something called an adjustment. he will be pitching big innings within 8 weeks for the yanks…
joba should not go to the pen and there is not guarantee he would have been a lock down guy either.
if they had a healthy bruney he would have pitched the 9th today………………..
I’d still take the Yankees starting staff and offense over Boston’s any day of the week.
The bullpen is the easiest part of the team to fix. Let’s see where Boston’s pen is by year end before we go crowning them.
Yankee fans have become like Boston fans of the past with all the worry over ever little thing that Boston does.
Despite Boston having a ‘great’ pen the Yankees are still in sole possession of first place on June 1st. That’s all I care about.
Joba in the pen would instantly make us the best team in baseball with no holes at all
Until then, other teams can just work our starters and keep it close, knowing they can tee off our bullpen in the late innings. Guys like Burnett/Joba are not economical anyway. Teams know this. Just like we always think we can come back, other teams will think they can come back against this pen too and most times, they will.
We don’t have the luxury to develop Joba we have the luxury to never have him as a potential Ace starter? Sweet!
Evolution,
Please. Just. Stop. Now.
Please?
boston has a better pen. so………..
we have a better lineup and better starting pitching, more speed and better defense, your point is??????????????????????
pens are easier to fix then starting rotation or a lineup so your point is???????????????
how is daisuke doing????????????????
we have a better offense than boston, theres no arguing there.
Our starting staff is equal at best(this is if beckett/lester/dice-k are pitching to their capabilities)
Our bullpen though is horrendous, and thats the huge.
It’s sad that we have to pump our chest about being in 1st place in late May
Joe Torre would laugh at us. He had us in 1st when it really mattered. Being in 1st in May used to be a ho hum affair. now it is celebrated. Shows how much we have fallen.
well this lost was exrtremely frustrating b/c we came so close to winning it. but i really wasnt too upset after the loss, tomorrow is a new game, another win
Save the “Joba to the pen” talk because it’s not happening until Joba hits his innings cap for the season.
Besides, he’s not the cure all right now and he’s having issues throwing harder than 91 MPH when he comes out for his 1st inning.
How do we know that his 1st inning problems won’t carry over to the pen?
We don’t. It’s as simple as that.
But it’s all a moot point because Cashman and Girardi have no intention of putting Joba in the pen.
I’m actually really curious to see what the Yankees will do if Wang continues to pitch this well.
The one thing to remember is his 92-94 mph velocity MIGHT not translate to 7 innings, but I’m very encouraged by the location and movement of his sinker.
It’s obvious that Wang really wants to be a starter, and he’s going to force the Yankees’ hand pretty soon. But what happens if Joba has a really bad outing tomorrow? Is it fair to send Hughes down to the minors instead? I think he has shown more progression over his last few outings than Joba has.
this bullpen right now is absolutely terrible.
mo is it.nobody else.
how did this happen?
All it will take is a Dave Robertson/Phil Coke implosion next week in Boston in the 8th inning, that turns a 3-2 lead into a 5-3 deficit for people to come over to the “darkside”.
Easy to overlook flaws when you are winning.
4 runs in 5 IP is not good but I thought PH pitched much better than the results. The negative: he hurt himself in the 3rd with the BB & HBP; he has to put hitters away earlier, they foul off 2 or 3 pitches and run up his pitch count. But it looked like he had really good stuff on all his pitches and good command too (good strike :ball ratio). The 3rd could have been worse after Swisher missed the cutoff, but PH got out of it. What I liked best is that this is the 3rd game in a row that he was really aggressive. He didn’t mess around he went right at the hitters. Somedays the hitters are going to bunch some hits together and get the best of him. But if he keeps pitching like this, he’ll do well and win a lot of games.
Do you think he gets tired of answering the “Are you worried about losing your spot to CMW?” after every game?
Don’t you all see how this game would have been a win if Joba were in the bullpen? If he could have just been there to pitch the 8th where he absolutely postively no doubt about it belongs- wait, what? We lost in the bottom of the ninth? Joba in the eighth wouldn’t have made a difference at all, since it was still at tie game? Oh.
If Joba were in the bullpen today serving his 8th inning role, and Wang was already back in the rotation, might I ask who would have pitched the 6th and 7th innings since Hughes was at 95 pitches after 5 innings and 4 ERs?
Would Joba be a weapon out of the bullpen? Of course he would. But again, this team hasn’t been blowing too many leads in the 8th inning, where Joba would lurk. The rest of the bullpen needs to step up. Someone needs to start games. Once Joba moves to the bullpen, you can’t move him back. If someone gets hurt, you really want Tomko in there starting?
Pete is absolutely right. We’ve been wanting to get younger for years. Now that we’re finally getting a bit younger, we have to be prepared for some mistakes to be made.
There’s going to be days like today. They can’t win every game, as much as some of you think they should. Players will occasionally have their off days. A few inches to the left, that game winning hit is a foul ball. A few inches to the right, it’s a double play. Just part of the game.
What’s important is we win series, and last time I checked we were still winning this one 2-1.
“We don’t have the luxury to develop Joba we have the luxury to never have him as a potential Ace starter? Sweet!”
We already bought that for the next 8 years. Sadly this is the Yankees and you and I both know they can’t just develop young talent on the job. If that was the case, then we should have never bought Burnett and resigned Andy and we could have let Hughes and Kennedy develop.
Robertson isin’t going to move up in the pecking order if he pitches like he did today. Walked a guy, 3-1 to Peralta before throwing a cookie down the middle
Phillip Hughes is a MLB starting pitcher……The real issue facing Cashamn is that he has 2 starters that will be inning capped…..Sending Hughes back to AAA at this point serves no real purpose…..And I don’t want to hear this crap about working on his secondary pitches….The kid shut out 2 first place teams on the road…He’s had one bad outing this season, and if you take away that start his numbers are in the top 5 in the MLB….
As of right now, Hughes deserves to be up instead of Joba.
But regardless, Wang belongs in the rotation. I think he has shown enough.
“It’s sad that we have to pump our chest about being in 1st place in late May”
That’s true, however the AL East is much tougher now than it was years ago. The Rays used to lose 100 games every year, but now the last place Orioles look like they could be a legitimate contender in a couple other divisions. The Red Sox have vastly improved since the last time the Yankees got to the WS, and the entire division is just much better overall. I think whichever team wins the division this year has a lot to be proud of, more so than when we won in the late 90′s/early 2000′s. And while first place in May is not a huge deal, it’s been a while since the Yankees have been closer than 5 GB at this point in the season (even under Torre).
Hughes does not deserve to be sent down
Wang has shown he deserves to go back to the rotation
We all know where this is going…. it sends a bad message to the players and fans if they send Hughes down after how well he has pitched. I imagine he has a lot of support in that lockeroom now after answering Damon’s call.
“You and I both know…” is a poor debate tactic, as is saying that we don’t need a great starter in the future becaue we signed CC. It’s precisely *because* we signed CC and Byrnett and Andy that Joba is the 5th starter. Did you not get the memo?
If Joba has a bad start tomorrow. Send him to AAA and give Wang his spot.
nobody knows if girardi or cashman will put joba in the pen.
did they tell you?
if the pen is costing a lot of games,hughes & wang are pitching well,joba continues to struggle as a starter they could very easily put him in the pen.
is that the right thing or the best thing to do?
i don’t think it matters much.starter or reliever as long as he is pitching for us with his talent.
i think we are better right now with joba in the pen because hughes & wang fill out the rotation.
not much if anything is lost there but the pen gets much better instantly.
i think the smart thing to do is keep him as a starter but this pen needs to be fixed soon before it costs us the season.
keep rotating guys with the hope we get lucky,a trade or trades,something.
Wang looked ready, but it was only 3 innings. Let’s get him a little more work and if he does well, stick him back in the rotation. Hughes can go back down and he can come up when we need him. With these pitchers, we’ll more than likely need him sooner rather than later.
I love how Cashman got ticked off at the media for asking him about Joba to the pen
Hey Brian, maybe if you built an actual bullpen rather than just sitting around hoping that these journeymen turn it around, then there would be no more questions
The Joba to the pen talk would be non-existent if we had a good bullpen. But it is our weak link by far. Want it to end? Then fix it.
But if Joba is throwing 91. How can he help in the bullpen?
wang is pitching better and looks like his old self. the guy won 19 twice, he will be in the rotation soon enough and he deserves it. what game are you guys watching, the guy is 53 and 25 or so as a starter…….
hughes did not pitch that bad today, he gets a C. he needs to reduce his pitches, worry less about K’s and throw more curves, cutter,s etc. then all fastballs..
they lost a game they could have won. any brain surgeon who thinks berroa, veras, or tomko will be on this team in 4 weeks is clueless……
they do not use tomko because he stinks, is 35, and has no upside………….
win tommorrow and have a 4 and 2 roudtrip… they will destroy sowers monday……………
NO, NO, NO…
Don’t get too excited by Wang because… he IS Wang, that guy with only one pitch!
Maybe 2 or 3 more relief appearances, we can trade him for a bat!
““You and I both know…” is a poor debate tactic, as is saying that we don’t need a great starter in the future becaue we signed CC. It’s precisely because we signed CC and Byrnett and Andy that Joba is the 5th starter. Did you not get the memo?”
Well Hughes is up, and he’s certainly showing he is here to stay. Joba doesn’t deserve special treatment and that spot is not his. He can lose it and I certainly hope he will if this trend continues.
“this bullpen right now is absolutely terrible.
mo is it.nobody else.
how did this happen?”
Poor planning, relying too much on the likes of Veras/Edwar.
The thing about Wang was in his final inning he was leaving some pitches up. But Joba needs to step up tomorrow.
nobody knows if girardi or cashman will put joba in the pen.
did they tell you?
—————
Have you been paying attention the past week?
The media (led by Francesa) manufactured the whole Joba to the pen crap again after he had a rough outing in Texas.
Every news source that covers the Yanks asked Cashman about it and he flat out said that it wasn’t even an option.
—————–
Some say Chamberlain paces himself as a starter. Some have argued that he brings an adrenaline rush out of the bullpen, an argument Cashman brought up, then dismissed. “That’s all crap,” he said. “Wake up and smell the coffee. If he’s on national television on ESPN and throws 91 on the 22nd pitch, why would you think if he comes in in the eighth inning protecting a 4-3 lead [he'd throw 96]? Stop, he’s a starter.”
http://www.newsday.com/sports/.....3788.story
———————–
Sounds pretty definitive to me.
“NO, NO, NO…
Don’t get too excited by Wang because… he IS Wang, that guy with only one pitch!
Maybe 2 or 3 more relief appearances, we can trade him for a bat!”
One pitch? You think a guy with one pitch would win 19 games in the AL east?
yea that is smart send Joba to AAA to do what exactly moron?????
to pitch to a 2 ERA and that helps the yankees how?????
the wang situation will work it’s way out shortly one way or another.. the bottom line is wang looks much better is contributing and we will see what happens. hughes is getting valuable time in the majors, looks to be improving and etc.
joba is presently running in place he needs to become moreeconomical and work on his early innings issues and we will see what happens……
gardner has to try to steal 2nd in the 9th, cano trying to steal ealier is a joke. the announcer on tbs are morons; jsut because a guy plays 2B and is dark skinned does not mean he can steal a base…….Cano has less then 10 steals in 4 years………..
Is Joba not performing adequately as a 5th starter?
I’ll answer that for you. He’s doing fine. Or better than fine.
“The thing about Wang was in his final inning he was leaving some pitches up. But Joba needs to step up tomorrow.”
That is what makes Wang special. He has the velocity to get away with mistakes. Wang throws 94-95mph
Trade Wang? Only an idiot would do that. Seeing that is unbelievable. My guess is it’s some freakin Sox troll.
Trade Lester for Street! Demote Bay to AA.
EvoLuTioN May 31st, 2009 at 6:47 pm
““You and I both know…” is a poor debate tactic, as is saying that we don’t need a great starter in the future becaue we signed CC. It’s precisely because we signed CC and Byrnett and Andy that Joba is the 5th starter. Did you not get the memo?”
Well Hughes is up, and he’s certainly showing he is here to stay. Joba doesn’t deserve special treatment and that spot is not his. He can lose it and I certainly hope he will if this trend continues.
_______————
I don’t why Hughes gets the short straw if Wang gets his spot back. like last year. I’m sure he would’ve been brought up sooner after the injury. If Kennedy had better starts. But since Kennedy got hammered they decided to keep Hughes down longer. And I know no one will agree. But I think hurt us. Cuz we had to put Rasner and Giese out there.
Yeah kidding? is a clown.
The Yankees look like a Mickey Mouse organization when they send down an effective starter like Hughes, while keeping Joba in the rotation all while they have the worst bullpen in baseball.
Isn’t the objective to put the best team out on the field possible?
> One pitch? You think a guy with one pitch would win 19 games in the AL east?
yes, because he is lucky!
and his luck will be running out soon… go ask any statheads if you don’t believe me.
Rolex
May 31st, 2009 at 6:40 pm
As of right now, Hughes deserves to be up instead of Joba.
——————————————————–
And why is that? Where does this myth come from that Phil has pitched better than Joba? Hughes had one masterful start against Texas. Joba had a similar one againt Detroit a few weeks ago.
Hughes – 7 starts. 3-2. 5.45 ERA. 1.50 WHIP.
Innings pitched – 6, 4, 1.2, 5, 5, 8, 5
He had one great game at 8 innings, one awful one at 1.2 innings.
He has pitched more than 5 innings 2 out of 7 stars.
Average innings per game: Just under 5 innings (Let’s round up to 5).
Joba – 9 starts. (8 if you don’t count injured start of 0.2 innings) 2-1. 3.97 ERA. 1.57 WHIP
Innings pitched – 6. 4.2, 5.1, 7, 5.2, 6, 6, .2 (injury), 4.0
Take away his injured start of .2 innings.
He has gone longer than 5 innings 6 out of 8 starts.
Average innings per game: About 5 2/3 innings.
Look, I’m a huge fan of both Joba and Phil. But let’s be honest here, Phil has not performed better up to this point.
Statheads come out!
Lucky
What a bafoon.
Someone has never watched a game of baseball..
stuart a May 31st, 2009 at 6:51 pm
yea that is smart send Joba to AAA to do what exactly moron?????
_________________
why are you calling me a moron? if everyone can say send hughes down why can’t i say send joba down.
Joba to the pen.
When Wang leaves the bullpen, then we’ll be really screwed
He is one of our most effective relievers currently.
“I love how Cashman got ticked off at the media for asking him about Joba to the pen
Hey Brian, maybe if you built an actual bullpen rather than just sitting around hoping that these journeymen turn it around, then there would be no more questions
The Joba to the pen talk would be non-existent if we had a good bullpen. But it is our weak link by far. Want it to end? Then fix it.”
Points for truth-telling, Eric.
I think the rules in this game are that only Phil’s most recent *good* starts count and none of Joba’s do.
Dear Lord!
Trade Wang?
Demote Joba?
Last year was a nightmare for Hughes….Cracked ribs is why the club took their time in bringing him back…..Regardless of what many say here, he will be a front of the rotation pitcher…..He always has been that type of pitcher….
The bottom line is, we have no bullpen
It isin’t even mediocre, it is downright terrible with no solution in sight
Nick in SF in Larkspur
May 31st, 2009 at 6:59 pm
I think the rules in this game are that only Phil’s most recent good starts count and none of Joba’s do.
————————————————
Oh. Thanks for clearing that up, Nick. Totally get it now. In that case, Joba to the pen.
Jon-As good of a point that is Wang is a proven starter while Joba is not. Although this game would have not gone to the bottom of the ninth without Wang’s performance as I have a feeling that any other reliever (save Aceves/Mariano) would have made a mess of things.
Jon May 31st, 2009 at 6:58 pm
When Wang leaves the bullpen, then we’ll be really screwed
He is one of our most effective relievers currently.
———-
That’s some sound logic there. Wang will help the bullpen because he’s a guy who tends to give this team a lot of length.
Instead of 5 inning starts out of Hughes the majority of the time, we’ll see Wang throwing 6-7 innings most of the time.
The more innings the starters eat, the better the pen will be because they won’t be as exposed.
It’s common sense.
Boston would have won that game today
They throw Ramirez, Saito, Delcarmen… anyone of their numerous sub 3 ERA relievers and they shut down the bottom of the Cleveland lineup, go to extras, and win.
If we don’t fix the pen, there will be many more losses like this. This team can come back, but unless they win it in walkoff fashion, or take the lead and hand it off to MO…. they are screwed.
OMG Send Joba down now. This place has really gone off the deep end. Total insanity. this is worse than the Yankees losing a game. This place turns to a sewer.
Erica if you are around, the corn came out great! Thanks!
Coke/Robertson… two of our “high end” relievers can’t get out Trevor Crowe, Asdubal Cabrera, or Ben Francisco
Tells you all you need to know about the pen. Stop hyping up Robertson, he is no different than Coke.
“Seagulls were flying over my head,” Pavano said. “It was just a quick thing, but it caught my eye. I think it caught everyone’s eye, because everyone, I think, got surprised by it.”
**************
Too bad one didn’t dive bomb and peck his eyes out.
The Joba to the pen talk would be non-existent if we had a good bullpen. But it is our weak link by far. Want it to end? Then fix it.”
———–
It doesn’t help that both Bruney and Marte are on the DL either.
They were supposed to split the 8th inning duties and neither have pitched much at all this season.
The trade market doesn’t tend to start manifesting itself until June because that’s when GMs around the league begin to trim payroll with salary dumps.
When are Bruney and Marte due back?
Don’t even mention Marte being a solution either. Marte wasn’t that solid either. I am becoming convinced that the only solution for now is either moving Joba to the bullpen or Cashman being creative and I don’t think Cashman has a creative bone in his body.
corona
May 31st, 2009 at 7:03 pm
Boston would have won that game today
They throw Ramirez, Saito, Delcarmen… anyone of their numerous sub 3 ERA relievers and they shut down the bottom of the Cleveland lineup, go to extras, and win.
—————————————————–
The Ramirez who blew the game for the Sox yesterday might disagree with you. And Delcarmen gave a run back to the Twins the other day while the Sox were trying to get back into it.
Yes, the Boston bullpen is one of the best in the game, off to a hot start. But every bullpen will have hot streaks and cold streaks. That’s what middle relievers do.
As to Phil:
Baby steps for Phil, baby steps. The fact that is stuff is back can’t be underestimated as the other things (consistency with the curve, etc….) can be worked on. He could probably help us in the pen, but I don’t think it’s a good idea for his future……..he’s a starter and needs to refine things in the minors (even though I also agree that facing ML hitters is better for him at this point than facing minor leaguers)…..where games don’t count.
Brett Gardner didn’t cost us the game. The idiot who blew the call on Jeter at first did. The play wasn’t even close. Maybe some dollars changed hands, who knows. But in any case, Tex’s homer would have been a three-run shot and with a 5-4 lead going into the ninth, Mo comes in, seals the deal.
OK, nothing is for certain. EXCEPT the fact that the Yankees were ROBBED of a run. Yes, I’m still furious.
And Coke was right, the umpiring sucked.
Austin Jackson and another chip to the Royals for Soria. Done, closer of the future.
Kevin in the 908 May 31st, 2009 at 7:09 pm
Don’t even mention Marte being a solution either. Marte wasn’t that solid either. I am becoming convinced that the only solution for now is either moving Joba to the bullpen or Cashman being creative and I don’t think Cashman has a creative bone in his body.
—————–
Well, Joba isn’t getting moved to the pen so you can continue to beat your head against the wall.
Marte wasn’t right since the second week of ST.
That probably had something to do with his performance.
Al from BK May 31st, 2009 at 7:12 pm
Austin Jackson and another chip to the Royals for Soria. Done, closer of the future.
————
Yeah, I’m sure the Royals will jump right on that. Ge real.
The Royals are much improved and that is a very winnable division. They aren’t going to start dumping players anytime soon.
What’s with all this gripe about the Yankees’ pen? Granted they’re not the most bullet proof in the world but then who does?
The problem today was not their pen. Just because they gave up one run does not mean it’s the most awful in the league.
The problem today and has always been is that they can’t get a runner on third home with less than 2 outs. Always had this problem. ARod, Jeter, Posada, Damon, Cano, Matsui, etc. they’ve all done it.
Either striking out (most common) or hitting into a DP (or into a drawn-in infield and thus can’t score the run) whenever that a man on third with less than two out set up occurs.
Giuseppe: Bruney has an injury-plagued history and Marte is well-known for choking. I can get you in touch with some White Sox fans if you need proof.
Next.
wow peter gammons just called us the best team in baseball
Boston would have won that game? The team with the losing road record?
Are you sure?
Sheesh, why don’t some of you move to Boston and join Red Sox nation? They just lost 2/3 to a reeling Jays team – they are not perfect – they have flaws, JUST like the Yankees. To the person who said it was pathetic that we need to pump our chests out because we’re in first place in May, give me a break. It’s been ages since this team was good enough to sniff first place and last I checked, it was better to be in first than to not be in first. Who’s pumping anyway? Are we not allowed to be excited? If you can’t enjoy the journey, then just pull a Rip Van Winkle and wake up after the regular season ends.
“wow peter gammons just called us the best team in baseball”
Maybe Gammons is getting senile with this pen no matter how good the offense/rotation we are the 2nd best in our division.
Cashman failed us miserably when he didn’t sign Juan Cruz. There really isn’t any justification for that.
Congrats to Pat M (I think) who said weeks ago Yankees in 1st place on June 1. No prize to give but props to you.
No game is ever determined on 1 play. Too many moving parts to believe that unless you are looking for a scapegoat.
whatever May 31st, 2009 at 7:16 pm
Giuseppe: Bruney has an injury-plagued history and Marte is well-known for choking. I can get you in touch with some White Sox fans if you need proof.
Next.
—————–
Bruney has had an injury plagued career? Really?
Last year’s injury was freakish – as was Wang’s injury.
There have been whispers that the Yanks told Bruney not to strengthen his legs over the offseason and that may have put a little extra strain on his elbow this season.
Can you name other injuries Bruney has had over the years?
And Ozzie Guillen said flat out that he hated losing Marte. He said he cried himself to sleep the day the Sox traded him.
I’m not telling you that Marte is the cure all or dominant – but Phil Coke wouldn’t be nearly as exposed as he is now if Marte was healthy and coming in to face lefties.
Pat M, you’ve never wavered on Phil…..I’m very, very pleased with him thus far this year. I’ve always been high on him as the whole package – he’s got a good head on his shoulders to go along with his talent. I wonder how is performance went over in the clubhouse today……I expect him to be sent down, but he’s learning an awful lot by pitching in the majors and it will make him a better pitcher going forward.
Yankee bullpen- Mo-great
Aceves-good
Everyone else-pray.
I hope Girardi doesn’t give up on Roberston. I think he can be good.
pat: how come no one ever gets a prize??
Gammons just needs to fill up air time.
We’re not better than Boston, regardless of the records. Let them win a series in Fenway, then we’ll talk.
Compare the bullpens and it isin’t close
Betsy, I think it’s a waste to send him down….He’s thrown the 2 best games of any starter for the Yanks this season..And both were on the road against 1st place hard hitting teams…..I mentioned last season that I thought the club should piggy-back Hughes & Joba every fifth day…It keeps their innings and pitches restricted and it keeps them on a starter schedule…..
Trade Austin Jackson for a set up guy with a bum shoulder?
When AJ goes on the DL, you can always recall Hughes
He’s not disappearing, seesh. Wang is ready to come back anyway.
You think so, Al? I sure don’t……..
Cashman is taking this all too personally. He sounded almost juvenile in his response to the Joba/pen question in the papers yesterday. We’re not looking at a classic baseball management situation, we’re looking at a monumental ego that will not budge, no matter how bad his plan turns out.
“I said Joba is a starter and that’s that.” Fine. But what did you do as a hedge? Extend Damaso Marte for 3/$12 million before the market was defined? That was brilliant. There were six other lefties on the market and they wound up signing for a combined $8 million. No matter. The ultimate hedge is Cashman planned all along to return Joba to the pen when he nears his innings cap. Problem is, the bullpen turned out to be much worse than he thought, so he’s stuck until the trading deadline, unless he wants to overpay. We’ll see how many games that costs us in the meantime.
While the Sox didn’t put us away during their 11 game win streak, we didn’t put them away while winning 15 of 18.
You are not going to ‘put away’ good teams. Even Tampa just won a series against a good Twins team.
In other news, Jesus Montero continues to mash – going 2 for 4 on the day with another RBI.
He’s hitting .355 / .404 / .593 on the season.
I’d like to see him get promoted to Trenton so he and Romine can split up and inherit the catching duties everyday.
Montero is going to mash at whatever level he plays – but he needs to catch everyday and improve his defense and game-calling.
Romine needs to do the same thing.
What is it with people just waiting for AJ to get hurt? It’s like they want it to happen………he’s healthy now, so just lay back enjoy it…….wow.
Maybe we can trade Austin Jackson to Japan and get Rasner back. Then put Joba in the pen. Then if a starter goes down, BAM, you put Rasner in the rotation. Then you plan the parade.
I’d to that trade in a heartbeat… too bad the Royals wouldn’t.
Would Rasner come with Japan Revenue?
Wow, it’s such a given that the Sox are better than the Yankees…..again, a bunch of Mike Francescas here. The Sox can do no wrong, lol
Pat M, good points……I love Phil, so a big part of me wants him to stay. I think it’s good for him to be a part of this club – I’m sure he’s being mentored by the vets. Piggy-backing Phil and Joba is an interesting idea, but what do you do if Joba is throwing a great game? Take him out so Phil gets work?
Hopefully we can get a desirable pitcher at the deadline. We just need to stick around that long, with this pen we’ll see.
Yeah.. it is so outrageous to respect the team that has won 2 WS since we have and has gone to 3 game 7s of the ALCS
There is a reason why everyone is confident in them. They have earned that right.
How could we put the Sox away when we were already several games behind? The Sox could have done serious damage to the Yankees chances while the Yankees were struggling. Look, I think this is still going to be titanic struggle between some very good teams (not counting the Rays out at all)…..the Jays, despite their struggles, are a good team and the O’s are competitive. It’s a brutal division. I just don’t get the all-encompassing love for the Sox. When the Yankees win, fans are enamored of the Yankees…….when they lose, it’s bridge-jumping time. Yankee fans have no faith in their team.
Boston’s bullpen is so good. 5 guys with ERAs under 3 aside from Papelbum
I wish we had just one
Betsy, when the innings reach a certain point either of them will be yanked regardless…Remember Hughes in Texas….You can just rotate starting assignments to monitor the innings that they accumilate…..
Nick
The esteem of fellow LoHudders is better than any stinkin prize.
Let’s win a series against the Sox first. Then we can talk about being better than them.
Please, May Day – respect (which I have for the Sox) is one thing. Kissing their fanny and putting them on the high altar is another. Hey, if you want to think the Sox are the greatest team ever and the Yankees will forever be looking up at them (because we lost today), go ahead……..
Austin Jackson for a set-up man…Fred McGriff for Dale Murray, anyone?
Pat M: that would be a novel approach, but I don’t think they’re going to go the piggy-back route.
Tom: as much as he can stuff into his carry-on luggage.
Well, at least the yankees didn’t perform like the Ohio State baseball team.
http://www.ncaa.com/gametracke.....=&
35-4
Some of those kids are gonna need hugs
Pat M, it will be interesting how the Yankees decide what to do with Phil…..and when they think Wang is ready for the rotation.
Make that 37-4
Betsy, I feel that Wang is ready for the rotation now. He was pretty great today.
Nick in SF, It’s an old school approach and something the Baltimore Orioles used to do in the 60′s….Besides that mentality is used in the playoffs as well….
Pat M: you may be right, I shouldn’t be so quick to dismiss. I just want to see Joba learn to get deeper into games, though.
new thread
Man we have alot of stupid people on the blog today.
whatever
You are right about Cashman overpaying for Marte. What I worry about is can Marte pitch well in NY. He pitched well in Pittsburgh where there as no pressure, he even closed for a while. Hopefully he is a guy who can handle the pressure here.
Marte who’s that?
I really hope the Yanks make the right decision and put Wang back in the rotation and send Hughes to the minors. Hughes needs to work on his secondary pitches and hasn’t earned anything to start over him. Wang has been really good his last 3 times out and they need to get Wang back to Wang. They can also use his innings in the rotation. Enough already…
I pin this loos on our crappy manager…JOE GIRARDI>… FIRE HIM!
He didnt have gardner steal, so we wouldnt have gotten into a DP and the run would have scored..then he doesnt bring in MO!
He’s alll about the stats in order for MO to get the save we had to get through another inning dumb ass…he doesnt think…all he cares about are gettin MO saves instead of him holding us another inning for us to score, since noone in this bullpen can.
Hey people I have a solution for the bullpen problem. Really. Here it is: each pitcher starting with Joba, followed by Pettitte, AJ, Wang/mostly Hughes and CC each pitch one rotation in the pen. With all those power people doing an inning – we should win more games.
To respond to the post about Cashman acting juvenile. If you were in his position wouldn’t you get g.d. sick and tired of the same question when does Joba . . . . If it were me I would tell the inquisitors that I would not take any questions regarding the status of Joba Chamberlain. Period.
Nick SF – you are too much. Always get a laugh out of me. I really like your idea of “start the parade”!
lswaha
May 31st, 2009 at 5:11 pm
Put Joba in the freaking bullpen for christ sake.
————————————————-
One pitcher can’t win it all in the bull pen. Do you expect him to pitch everyday, every inning until Mo? What is your plan??
Wang will have to throw about 43 more scoreless innings to get his era down to 4.
Yikes.
I don’t understand Joe having a person on 1st and 3rd,1 out,
and not having Jorge hit a sacfly to go up 5-4.The Tribe won by 5-4 ” *stoopid.* “
If the Yankees make it to the World Series AGAINST THE NL,small ball will come into play.
They manufacture runs regularly,when their bats are silent.
Why do the Yankees overly rely on the home run?
Why is Joe so anal,as a manager?
As a catcher he was great,as a manager he’s a head case.
Eventually he’ll lose the respect of the players,by over thinking everything.
Wang is certainly BACK!
NICE!
Wang needs to go back into the rotation NOW. The guy is an ace on most teams, a two-time 19-game winner. The good news: I’m sure he will be put back in the rotation, and sounds like Melky is back soon, maybe tomorrow, and, the best news: we’re still in first place! Considering where we were what, three weeks ago? That’s pretty amazing. Things lookin’ up for this team.
For past three years Houghs has not proven to pitch well under presure. The major problem is his mental quality, not his skill. He may be a no. 4 or 5 satrter in Yankees, but not an ace in the future. I don’t undersatnd why Yankees gives him so many chances as a starter.
Besides Wang, even Aceves is better than Houghs in the rotation. Meanwhile Jaba is excellent in the bullpen, but not in the rotation. Now Wang has proven that he is back and ready. Why does Wang not deserve to be back in the rotation?
Put Wang and Aceves in the rotation, jaba in the bullpen, Houghs in AAA or trade him for a long reliver and young potential players.
Wang’s stats:
First 3 games in April: 6 innings, 23 runs, 34.50 ERA
Last 3 games in May: 8 innings, 2 runs, 2.25 ERA
What a difference after coming back from DL.
Remember the pitching coach still insisted Wang was fine after his first two insane games in early season? The coach: “Wang is fine, his stuff is there, I saw it in the bullpen….”
Was he really fine?? Didn’t anyone notice his velocity was a bit off and can not locate his sinker at that time? Who made the decision to throw him out there to be slaughtered in eary season when he was not ready? that caused Yankees three games and hurt his confidence?
Isn’t somebody’s job to watch the players, put them in when they are in good shape, and sit them out/tuning when they are not? This is unbelievable. Shouldn’t anyone be responsible for this? the pitching coach, manger or GM?
hughes is learning how to get major league hitters out.
he can’t do that in the minors.
hughes has nothing to learn in the minors.
right now we can see it with hughes he is tinkering back & forth between a pitcher in trouble & a great pitcher.
as long as hughes is not getting lit up i would leave him in the rotation.
one day soon right before our eyes we are going to have an ace on our team.
“This just in, you’re Phil Coke. You think the umpire is giving you borderline strikes?”
this is what’s wrong with sports today. not just baseball, sports.