Pitching matchups for the Texas series

Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Jun 02, 2009 Print This Post | Email This Post

Tuesday: RHP A.J. Burnett (3-2, 4.78) vs. RHP Vicente Padilla (3-2, 4.71), 7:05 p.m., YES

Wednesday: LHP Andy Pettitte (5-1, 4.10) vs. RHP Scott Feldman (4-0, 3.91), 7:05 p.m., YES

Thursday: LHP CC Sabathia (5-3, 3.46) vs. RHP Brandon McCarthy (5-2, 4.35), 1:05 p.m., YES

583 Responses to “Pitching matchups for the Texas series”

randy l. June 2nd, 2009 at 9:04 am
sj44-

it’s a great time for tony .

i asked about tony’s eye dominance a few days ago. the reason i asked is that you said he might not hit for a high average. 2/3 of the population has eye dominance on the same side as their handedness.

if tony were right eye dominant, his right eye would be his back eye when hitting right handed. this can sometimes be a problem if a player has a closed stance because the dominant right eye gets blocked out by the nose.

that sounds funny but try it . i am cross dominant- left eye dominant and right handed, but i hit left handed so my dominant eye is in the back. until i developed an open stance( like damon) so my face was more square to the pitcher allowing my dominant eye to see better, i has visual holes when hitting.

just opening my stance totally changed how i saw the ball. i hit for a much higher average after opening up and seeing the ball better. the problem is that where you think the ball is ,it isn’t. try this test if you haven’t already done this to find your own dominant eye:

http://www.archeryweb.com/archery/eyedom.htm

when you see the object jump that you are looking at will demonstrate the problem of how an object like a baseball can “move” if your dominant eye is blocked from seeing directly.

you would not believe the problems dominant eye cause with putting in golf. what you see is not necessarily what’s there .

at any rate tony should know what his dominant eye is. if he’s left eyed dominant no problem because his dominant eye would be out front as a right handed hitter, but if it’s in the back( for him right eye dominant), it may be a factor in him not seeing some pitches if his face doesn’t face the pitcher.
Jeter's Edge June 2nd, 2009 at 9:07 am
Guys don’t get too excited about Joba’s win last night. According to Craig Carton he just caught lightning in a bottle. And according to Boomer, who i actually respect, he needs to prove that he can throw all those inning as a starter and not get hurt (forgetting the fact that he was ALWAYS a starter throwing and is use to throwing all those innings, minus 1 year). I think it’s time i invested in Serius Radio.
YankeeRay June 2nd, 2009 at 9:08 am
2 lefties and AJ for us and 3 righties for them. I smell a big series from the bombers and anything short of 2 out of 3 would be unacceptable. A sweep is very possible.
Carl June 2nd, 2009 at 9:15 am
Jeter’s Edge,

Carton wants Joba in the rotation. Don’t get serious because its the same Joba in the pen talk.
Dave Man June 2nd, 2009 at 9:15 am
The Spirit of ’98. We’re steamrolling from here on in.
jennifer June 2nd, 2009 at 9:15 am
Jeter’s Edge

You’d think being in a major media market we’d be able to listen to knowledgeable people. It is very frustrating!
Betsy June 2nd, 2009 at 9:17 am
Unacceptable? Come on……

This is a big game for AJ – I am still extremely confident that he is going to do great things for us, and now would be as good a time as any to get things going. I’d like to see him build on his last outing….I think he’s going to take him awhile to adjust to the new YS, though. A week or so ago, he said the stadium was in his head – that when a fly ball was it, he would automatically worry that it was going out. He can’t think like that……just think positive and execute the pitches.

Jen, I have no clue as to why I even bothered reading the article – the headline should have tipped me off right away that it was going to be a negative piece.
MaineYankee June 2nd, 2009 at 9:18 am
SJ44

I read about Tony on one site and they refered to how he had been out of shape at one time. Even though he had worked to overcome that it was still in the report.

It doesn’t make sense to judge a young kid that way because there is a maturity factor that should be in play. It’s almost as if they are trying to find what’s wrong with them than what’s right.

From hearing what you have said about him it seems like one of Tony’s best assets is a level head. That can be a big factor in how far he can go.

I hope the draft goes well for him and he goes to a team that is good at developing their prospecys.
Rishi June 2nd, 2009 at 9:19 am
randy – SJ responded in the previous thread
SJ44 June 2nd, 2009 at 9:23 am
It is pretty sad what passes for sports radio in NYC.

Its like that everywhere nowadays. Sports radio to the lowest common demominator of fans.

When a team loses, its the end of the world. When they win, its no big deal.

If you listen too much, it really saps the enjoyment out of the games.

Aside from the habitually negative on here, how can anyone NOT like what they see with the Yankees right now? They have been playing great baseball for almost a month.

You can see them getting better each game. The games are actually fun. Yes, even when they are behind!

The guys are loose (sorry Lonnie but, this is a loose group) and they don’t cower when things don’t go well.

Last years team would have gone into the tank after blowing that bases loaded, 0 out chance in the 6th. This group doesn’t do that. What a BIG difference between last year and this year.

Its not a perfect team. No team is. They will get another arm at some point for the pen.

However, at this point of the season, its a very, very good team that’s fun to watch.
YankeeRay June 2nd, 2009 at 9:24 am
It looks like Nady will be a question mark defensively which make him and Matsui a dual DH and hurts us from a flexibility perspective.

I saw a great interview with Mark Derosa last night and he is dying to be a Yankee. He is from Jersey and grew up a Yankee fan. he is also on the block and would be a great addition to this team IMO.
We should consider giving up the pitching that Cleveland is looking for as long as we don’t trade away our MLB pitchers.
I think this move along with finding a better pen guy for the 8th inning makes this team #27.
Jeter's Edge June 2nd, 2009 at 9:27 am
You said in SJ. It’s finally fun to watch them and not frustrating as heck! Kinda starting to feel like the late 90′s again!
vin June 2nd, 2009 at 9:30 am
It’s nice to have such a good rotation – you legitimately feel like every single series should be won. Seems to me that tonight’s game is the key. Win this one, hope Pettitte can outpitch Feldman, then watch CC do his thing on Thursday.

I knew we all weren’t crazy when we predicted they would steamroll once the starters started doing their thing.
S.A.--Let's get ready to rumble! June 2nd, 2009 at 9:30 am
Jeter’s Edge June 2nd, 2009 at 9:07 am

Guys don’t get too excited about Joba’s win last night. According to Craig Carton he just caught lightning in a bottle. And according to Boomer, who i actually respect, he needs to prove that he can throw all those inning as a starter and not get hurt (forgetting the fact that he was ALWAYS a starter throwing and is use to throwing all those innings, minus 1 year). I think it’s time i invested in Serius Radio.

=====================================

NY sports radio is in such a sad state
Chris Barrows June 2nd, 2009 at 9:34 am
Burnett can be huge for this team. Hopefully he’s big today(esp considering that I’m going to the new stadium for the first time tonight).
SJ44 June 2nd, 2009 at 9:35 am
Maine,

That’s the one difference between baseball and football player evaluations that leaves baseball in a situation where they miss on a lot of their high draft picks.

If you look at the last 10 first rounds in both baseball and football, you see many more misses in baseball than you do in football.

Being this involved in it this year, I can see why that is the case.
JohnC June 2nd, 2009 at 9:37 am
Carton wants Joba in the Mets pen.
Patrick June 2nd, 2009 at 9:38 am
SJ44

Don’t you think there are more misses in baseball because the difference in skill between highschool/college baseball is so huge compared to the pros? The difference in college football and the NFL isn’t nearly as big.
Doreen June 2nd, 2009 at 9:40 am
Definitely a lower stress level with the team this year – from my standpoint as a fan, and from what it looks like, for the team, as well.

It’s all about the pitching. When 5 out of 5 days a team thinks it has a very good chance of winning a game, they’re going to win most of those games. What did Yogi say, half the game is 50% mental or something like that? Anyway, if you think you can win, you will.

The last couple of seasons, it felt like “let’s hope for the best.” Waiting for something to go wrong. This year it’s turned on it’s ear.

I like that the team is loose, but have you noticed the serious tone when the game itself is discussed in interviews? They’re not letting the pies and the belt and the Tiger Woods doll get in the way of a professional approach to their game; instead, those things enhance the good feeling that winning brings. Mo said it last night, something to the effect that, of course when you’re winning, everything is fun!
Brandon ? Is Berroa really starting today ???? June 2nd, 2009 at 9:43 am
BTW I’m watching an encore w. coffee of the Yankees misusing Joba selfishly for 8 innings, 24 outs instead of 3
jennifer June 2nd, 2009 at 9:46 am
YankeeRay

I read or heard that Nady had some discomfort in his elbow when he started to swing that went away after a day or two. So they aren’t very surprised that his elbow has some discomfort after throwing. They expect it to go away in a day or two as well. They aren’t overly concerned.
ANSKY June 2nd, 2009 at 9:46 am
The ‘Joba in the pen’ crowd should be satisfied … Joba pitched a 1-2-3 eighth last night. You guys are all SO smart.

He was only reaching 97 in the 7th. clearly his arm isn’t built for starting, or he would have been between 98-100. He only got through the 8th inning on sheer guts, because that’s the only inning he’s ever been any good at.

Or something like that … just keep on believing whatever it is you think.
SJ44 June 2nd, 2009 at 9:47 am
Patrick,

The talent gap in college baseball has closed in recent years. You see guys like Longoria, Wieters, Lincecicum, etc, making the majors and having an impact much faster than in the past.

Its fascinating to me the differing strategies scouts/personnel officials employ in each sport. Its the first time I’ve experienced it up close and the distinctions are very interesting.
Tom in N.J. June 2nd, 2009 at 9:48 am
Joba was superlative last night. Four pitches working like that?
SJ44 June 2nd, 2009 at 9:50 am
The Yankees do something interesting. They bring their “Peak Performance Coach” (aka; sports psychologist) with them for pre-draft interviews and workouts.

That guy spends as much time asking questions of the kids as the personnel people do in those situations.

So far, its the only team that has had their peak performance coach talk to Tony during the entire process.
five iron from fenway June 2nd, 2009 at 9:51 am
Tex is good.
I grew up playing first base and wearing #23 for my favorite player at the time.
Watching Tex play first is really a pleasure. He is an unbelievable defensive player which seems to inspire the other infielders. Last night the couple plays late in the game and in particular the Rivera turn and throw shows the confidence the other players have in him. They must feel that if they get the ball in the vicinity of the base Tex will catch it. Here’s hoping this lasts the length of his contract.
For all the gruff that Cashman gets so far he has to get at least an A- for this offseason. He changes the culture of this team in one offseason. The emphasis now on pitching, defense, getting younger is already paying dividends (and AJ is coming along). Also, the guys signed have changed the clubhouse culture (although one can argue that winning will do this as well).
It is fun to watch this team. They want to win. They feel they will win. And, Cashman has given them the opportunity (look at the starting rotation) to win every game.
To me it will only improve in years to come. Austin Jackson is hitting well in AAA, Montero is probably a top 5 prospect in all of the minors, Kontos and Macallister are dominating AAA and AA respectively. A good draft and IFA period is hopefully around the corner.
ANSKY June 2nd, 2009 at 9:51 am
If I’m Nady, I decide whether or not to get the elbow re-done and soon. If current treatments aren’t showing solid progress, then shut-r-down and git-r-done. He could be back in good shape by the time he needs to use it next year. Otherwise, his off season contract talks could go a lot like how it went for Ben Sheets this past winter.
Patrick from CT June 2nd, 2009 at 9:52 am
Great game for Joba and the Yankees last night…

IMHO, leave Wang in the pen for a while longer. No way would I mess with the 5 in the rotation right now. Pitch Wang for 2-3 innings twice a week until a change is needed.
Sooner or later another starter will be needed. If they go another 3-4 weeks without a need, and Wang is still doing well, then switch he and Phil. Phil stays will the team though, at least for a while. If Phil does not get consistant work then maybe back to AAA.

No turning starters into 8th inning pitchers unless they prove they can’t be a starter.
Go get another proven arm like a Street if Bruney and Marte don’t come back effective.
For now, they have got to live with mix and matchups…
Voodoo Chile June 2nd, 2009 at 9:52 am
And the Best Start to a Sentence award goes to Bill Simmons for this beauty:

“When Manny Ramírez was suspended for trying to jump-start ovaries he didn’t have,”

http://sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/story?id=4223584
Rishi June 2nd, 2009 at 9:54 am
Voodoo Chile
June 2nd, 2009 at 9:52 am
And the Best Start to a Sentence award goes to Bill Simmons for this beauty:

“When Manny Ramírez was suspended for trying to jump-start ovaries he didn’t have,”

http://sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/story?id=4223584
*~*~*~*~*~

That had me laughing out loud
ANSKY June 2nd, 2009 at 9:55 am
Five Iron – 1B defense shore is a TON better’n it has been in recent years, iddn’t it? Offensive production too. Well, we DID have a better stache there last year and that goes for something.
five iron from fenway June 2nd, 2009 at 9:56 am
SJ – Sorry tried to post this a couple of times but got filtered out.
In an interview with Damon Oppenheimer Lane Meyer talks with DO about the sports psychologist. Seems the Yankees have him meet a lot of the prospects that are on their radar. Reinforces the emphasis the Yankees have put on character the last couple of drafts and IFA periods.
five iron from fenway June 2nd, 2009 at 9:58 am
ANSKY – I think it was Jayson Stark on Mike and Mike this morning that said Tex’s defense often gets overlooked because he is such a good hitter. Man am I happy Tex is a Yankee and not a Red Sox.
Brandon ? Is Berroa really starting today ???? June 2nd, 2009 at 10:00 am
“Jayson Stark on Mike and Mike this morning that said Tex’s defense often gets overlooked because he is such a good hitter. Man am I happy Tex is a Yankee and not a Red Sox.”

Believe it or not so am I, I hated this acquisition at first but damn am I sure glad he’s at 1B
Patrick from CT June 2nd, 2009 at 10:00 am
I don’t see Nady back with this team unless he can throw the ball. He is only 30, so if he can’t throw, he needs surgery.
I do understand Berroa being on the team as a 2nd backup for Alex, but I would think the Yankees could come up with a better player than him.
MaineYankee June 2nd, 2009 at 10:03 am
http://www.bostonherald.com/sp.....id=1176252

Interesting article on the RS and what Tex could have meant to them.
Bill June 2nd, 2009 at 10:03 am
NYY could start CMW Thursday and move everyone else back a day. That would mean CC starts Friday vs TB (division rival, more important than TX) and he would match up vs Garza I believe. That is why you pay someone $23mm, to beat key rivals and their top pitchers.
pat June 2nd, 2009 at 10:04 am
“Kinda starting to feel like the late 90’s again!”

You can’t relive the past so just enjoy whatever the 2009 Yankees are.
ANSKY June 2nd, 2009 at 10:05 am
Five Iron –
Man am I happy Tex is a Yankee and not Giambi.
And not Manny either, but that’s a totally different convo.
This defense rocks.
Patrick June 2nd, 2009 at 10:05 am
SJ44,

Yes there are some high end talents getting picked in the MLB draft but it’s still nowhere near the NFL.

All of the guys you mention have spent time in the minors, nobody goes straight to the MLB because nobody is ready for the pros when they are first drafted. There are dozens of NFL ready players in every NFL draft.

It’s just a different game.
MaineYankee June 2nd, 2009 at 10:06 am
SJ44

What’s the plan for draft day? Sit by the phone and wait, go play golf, have a cookout?
Voodoo Chile June 2nd, 2009 at 10:07 am
fwi, s/b a good night for Yanee fans according to AccuScore:

odds of winning

Texas Rangers 38%

New York Yankees 62%

—————————

Boston Red Sox 36%

Detroit Tigers 64%
Patrick June 2nd, 2009 at 10:08 am
Yeah Teixeira has had a huge impact on the offense AND defense. I wonder how many throwing errors he’s saved? Without Tex on the team there is no way the Yankees have this error-less streak. I’m sure he’ll make a mistake at some point but so far he’s been pretty flawless.
five iron from fenway June 2nd, 2009 at 10:11 am
Brandon, Ansky and Maine – I had the chance by chance to speak briefly with Brian Cashman this winter. When I told him that I was a lifelong Yankee fan currently living with the enemy in Boston he lit up and beamed about the acquisition of Tex.
CC is an unbelievable sign, but was about the money.
Tex, it seemed to me was Brian’s pride and joy. Not only do you get a tremendous player in their prime, but you deprive Boston of a piece they lusted after and really, really need.
Boston has a nice pitching staff, albeit some with injury risk, a great bullpen, but the players will undergo some change over the next couple of years. Pedroia, Youk, and Ellsbury are probably locked in. But, SS is a hug concern, Lowell is getting older and has hip issues that limit his mobility, Drew is hurt and is clearly not worth what they are paying him so they are stuck, Bay is a free agent with whom they are not close with dollars, Ellsbury at this point is Gardner plus a few points on the batting average, Varitek although HRs have returned is getting close to done with no Montero for them in the minors, Ortiz is done or close to done. So to recap – C, SS, 3b, rf, c, lf, and DH are issues or will become issues.
I still believe the Red Sox will be there in Sept., but they are not the golden boys any more.
jennifer June 2nd, 2009 at 10:12 am
Joe and Evan are talking Yankees.
SJ44 June 2nd, 2009 at 10:13 am
Draft Day is not going to be a party day.

Just work the phones, lay low, and wait it out.

We have already turned down the local media wanting to hang out with him next Tuesday.

Just take a low key approach and see how it shakes out.

Tex has been amazing at first base. So good, you realize just how much was missing defensively with Giambi at first base. It really hurt the team over the years. Especially as his offensive production decreased.
Patrick from CT June 2nd, 2009 at 10:15 am
“http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/baseball/red_sox/view.bg?articleid=1176252

Interesting article on the RS and what Tex could have meant to them.”

Vary interesting.
The biggest problem the Sox have right now is Big Poopy.
The biggest problem the Yankees have is the Pen.
These team are quite even as the standing indicate, but they have beaten us 5 times, so I still give them the edge.
Carl June 2nd, 2009 at 10:16 am
To say that CC was about the money and Tex isn’t is kinda crazy when a few weeks ago Tex said that LA was his first choice.
Trevor June 2nd, 2009 at 10:16 am
Francesa is another one who didn’t want Teixiera. Something about another superstar…yada yada yada.
If he’d had signed with the RS he would be talking how Epstein has done a much better job then Cashman.
five iron from fenway June 2nd, 2009 at 10:18 am
Carl – Sorry didn’t mean it that way. CC was a financial transaction to convince him to come to NY. TEX had the additional benefit of sticking it to the Red Sox.
Patrick June 2nd, 2009 at 10:19 am
“To say that CC was about the money and Tex isn’t is kinda crazy when a few weeks ago Tex said that LA was his first choice.”

When did he say that? Do you have a quote?
MaineYankee June 2nd, 2009 at 10:23 am
five iron

Your points are all on the money. I’m not sure if they will resign Bay if they try to get him for what I’m hearing what the offer is. They were talking Abreu money. I don’t think he will sign for less than 10mil.

That is what cost them from getting Tex. was trying to be on the cheap side thinking he would sign because it was the RS.

They got alot of props for the “smart signings” this year,Penny,Smoltz,Baldelli.

I think some of these moves are going to copme back and bite them and could cause them to fall behind if they continue.
Jon Ringland June 2nd, 2009 at 10:25 am
“The ‘Joba in the pen’ crowd should be satisfied … Joba pitched a 1-2-3 eighth last night. You guys are all SO smart.

He was only reaching 97 in the 7th. clearly his arm isn’t built for starting, or he would have been between 98-100. He only got through the 8th inning on sheer guts, because that’s the only inning he’s ever been any good at.

Or something like that … just keep on believing whatever it is you think.”

It sure is easy to write such smug responses when Joba goes 8, handing the ball to Mariano. Because, after all, he ALWAYS does that, doesn’t he? He’s clearly shown himself to be economical and reliable to give the pen a rest everytime he starts? You’re tune would be much different if he had gone 6 1/3 shut out up 1-0 and Veras/Robertson/Coke caughed up the lead leading to a loss. Don’t get me wrong, Im THRILLED he did what he did, but don’t act as if the Joba to the Pen argument makes no sense.
MaineYankee June 2nd, 2009 at 10:25 am
“http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/baseball/red_sox/view.bg?articleid=1176252

Interesting article on the RS and what Tex could have meant to them.”

Vary interesting.
The biggest problem the Sox have right now is Big Poopy.
The biggest problem the Yankees have is the Pen.
These team are quite even as the standing indicate, but they have beaten us 5 times, so I still give them the edge.

——————————————————

Read what five iron wrote. If you look at the RS closely they have more issues than Ortiz.
Brandon ? Is Berroa really starting today ???? June 2nd, 2009 at 10:27 am
“Don’t get me wrong, Im THRILLED he did what he did, but don’t act as if the Joba to the Pen argument makes no sense.”

HEH HEH HEH
Benny Blanco June 2nd, 2009 at 10:27 am
ANSKY
June 2nd, 2009 at 9:46 am
The ‘Joba in the pen’ crowd should be satisfied … Joba pitched a 1-2-3 eighth last night. You guys are all SO smart.

He was only reaching 97 in the 7th. clearly his arm isn’t built for starting, or he would have been between 98-100. He only got through the 8th inning on sheer guts, because that’s the only inning he’s ever been any good at.

Or something like that … just keep on believing whatever it is you think

========================================================

I think Joba is going to be very, very good. If the yankees did not have a huge gaping hole in the 8th inning. i would keep joba in the rotation. I dont see what the problem is having phil hughes as the 5th starter.
Dr. Cox June 2nd, 2009 at 10:28 am
Can anyone find Jeter’s Kim Jones interview after the game on 5/30/09 when CC pitched?

It was the one when they were talking about Kim jinxing them.
five iron from fenway June 2nd, 2009 at 10:29 am
Maine – I think the initial offers from the Sox for Bay was 10 per season. Bay I think will want much more than that. So far this year he has been very clutch for them. But I think clutch might come and go. The Yankees may be in on Bay as well.
As for the “smart” signings. Baldelli is perpetually injured. There is talk of trading Penny when Smoltz and/or Bucholz gets back to the majors, and Smoltz we need to reserve judgment.
I think the key to Boston’s season is Tom Verducci. Seriously! John Lester threw about 80 more innings last year than the previous year. According to Verducci that puts him very much in the danger zone. Lester had been pitching poorly up until hes last outing – which was stellar. It will be very interesting to see how he pitches the rest of the way.
Also, the Sox can’t play away from Fenway. They are under .500 for the year away from the house that Yawkey built. Of course, they absolutely dominate at home.
Jon Ringland June 2nd, 2009 at 10:29 am
“I think Joba is going to be very, very good. If the yankees did not have a huge gaping hole in the 8th inning. i would keep joba in the rotation. I dont see what the problem is having phil hughes as the 5th starter.”

Dont waste your breath Benny…our line of thinking is not tolerated well here
Benny Blanco June 2nd, 2009 at 10:29 am
The last caller nailed it… on joba
Patrick June 2nd, 2009 at 10:30 am
“Don’t get me wrong, Im THRILLED he did what he did, but don’t act as if the Joba to the Pen argument makes no sense.”

Except it DOESN’T make any sense!

Obviously Joba isn’t going to pitch like this every time out but he has proved that he CAN pitch like that. In the past, Francessa and his minions have argued that Joba is incapable of being a dominant starting pitcher. He proved them wrong last night.

Joba Chamberlain is currently the second best starting pitcher on the Yankees. It makes no sense to move him to the bullpen now or in the future.
Betsy June 2nd, 2009 at 10:31 am
Lol at Evan Roberts that he thinks only CC and Andy are locks to be in the rotation if the Yankees make the playoffs….. He’s nuts if he thinks AJ is being put in the pen (unless he pitches like Wang did his first 3 starts).
Betsy June 2nd, 2009 at 10:32 am
Tex is better than Tino at first – no one will ever be Mattingly to me, but he’s as close as you can get. I really underestimated how great he is defensively.
Patrick June 2nd, 2009 at 10:32 am
I think the problem with this argument is that some people just don’t grasp the VAST difference in value between a bullpen pitcher and a starting pitcher. Even a mediocre starting pitcher is more valuable than a lockdown 8th inning guy. The fact that Joba is a DOMINANT starting pitcher makes the decision that much easier.
MaineYankee June 2nd, 2009 at 10:32 am
The ignorance never ends.

First take is going to be talking about “the HR flying out of YS”. They said Huff said a Yankee could hit 90 HRs at this rate. You’d think they would step back and think about how stupid that sounds before they said it on air.
CB June 2nd, 2009 at 10:36 am
“Interesting article on the RS and what Tex could have meant to them.”

In the off season it looked like Tex would have created around 40 additional runs for the Sox which translates to 4 additional wins. Essentially Tex would have been replacing Lowell in most of the scenarios. Tex is fantastic but Lowell is still a quality player. Nonetheless, 4 additional wins in a division like the AL east is enormous.

Tex signing with the Yankees looked to make them around 4-5 wins better.

So that’s a swing of 8-9 wins in the division race with Tex deciding to play for the yanks rather than the sox.

In other words it looked like it would have been very unlikely for the yankees to win the division if Tex signs with boston.

But it now looks like that 4 additional wins Tex would have provided to Boston may have been a considerable underestimate. And that’s because of the way the Sox season has evolved.

The Sox weren’t going to trade Lowell until he’d proven that he was healthy in spring training. By that time however, they would have seen Big Papi and how awful he looked.

As such, I’d guess through spring training, even if the Sox had signed Tex, they wouldn’t have traded Lowell. They would have kept him for depth given Big Papi’s swing.

Given how awful Papi has looked I think the sox would have by now sat Papi and installed Lowell as the DH.

If that were to have happened Tex would have essentially been replacing Papi’s production – not Lowell’s.

It’s still early, but at their current rates of production – with the bat alone – Tex is on pace to create around 70-75 more runs than Papi over a season. 70-75 more runs at the plate. That’s 7-7.5 wins.

That’s the division right there.

It now looks to me that Tex deciding to sign with the Yankees rather than the Sox may yield an 11-12 win margin between the two teams this season, barring a boston trade that would bench Papi. Now it’s unlikely that Papi will continue to play at his awful rate of production but the Sox don’t have another power bat to replace him. Being able to slide Lowell into the DH slot would have been enormous for them.
Benny Blanco June 2nd, 2009 at 10:37 am
“Francessa and his minions have argued that Joba is incapable of being a dominant starting pitcher. He proved them wrong last night.”

What francesa said is besides last night, “when has joba shown us that he can be dominant?” Based on his starts prior to last night.

The same people that kill francesa are the same ones who will be turning their radio dials to wfan at 1pm.
Betsy June 2nd, 2009 at 10:37 am
Tex never said LA was his first choice, though he did say something to the effect that he just adored it out there and he might have re-signed had the Angels not pulled out. All I know is that Tex always has a big grin on his face and he looks genuinely overjoyed to be a Yankee- same goes for CC, AJ and Swish.
Jon Ringland June 2nd, 2009 at 10:37 am
“In the past, Francessa and his minions have argued that Joba is incapable of being a dominant starting pitcher. He proved them wrong last night.”

God help me, I may have to defend Mike here ::gags a little::. Francessa has never once said that Joba is incapable of being a dominant starter, no Yankee fan with a brain would make that claim. His stance, which regretfully i see eye to eye with, is that the team has a greater need of a shut-down back end of the bullpen. That asset takes your team from being very good to being championship quality (see Rivera/Wetteland ’96, or even Madson/Lidge last year).

“Joba Chamberlain is currently the second best starting pitcher on the Yankees”

Asinine. Chien-Ming Wang is a perrenial 19 game winner. AJ Burnett’s track record is one of brilliant (allbeit injury plagued) starting pitching. The only thing that makes your statement feasible is if you add “has the potential to be”, because he’s shown himself to be most inconsistent as a starter. The “but he’s 23!” argument is most valid here, but you can’t say that he’s our number two guy right not.
yanks22 June 2nd, 2009 at 10:38 am
SJ44,

I caught on late – I know your nephew plays for BC but what is his name?
jennifer June 2nd, 2009 at 10:39 am
Someone tell me who chooses the Yankee turning point? It is almost always not the actual turning point.

To me the turning point was Joba catching the bunt pop up and doubling the runner.

They picked Alex’s rbi single.
Coach6423 June 2nd, 2009 at 10:40 am
Jon,

If you don’t see that Joba is the 2nd best starting pitcher, then I can’t really help you.
five iron from fenway June 2nd, 2009 at 10:40 am
Jon – Try this one on for size. Joba is one of the 10 best pitchers in all of baseball. Find me 10 better this year – no by record, not by past performance.
Jon Ringland June 2nd, 2009 at 10:40 am
“To me the turning point was Joba catching the bunt pop up and doubling the runner.”

CREEPY, i was just writing that. Totally agree, he doesnt make that play its bases loaded no one out instead of runner on 1st, 2 outs.
Betsy June 2nd, 2009 at 10:41 am
Five Iron, I’m sorry, but Joba is not a top ten pitcher in baseball….I love the guy and he’s very likely going to be a top ten guy (if not better), but he’s absolutely not one now.
Benny Blanco June 2nd, 2009 at 10:41 am
ennifer
June 2nd, 2009 at 10:39 am
Someone tell me who chooses the Yankee turning point? It is almost always not the actual turning point.

To me the turning point was Joba catching the bunt pop up and doubling the runner

Agreed!!!! I wanna hear sterlings call on that.
MaineYankee June 2nd, 2009 at 10:44 am
five iron

I read some interesting stats in the Herald the other day.

The RS splits home and away. Home BA .302 runs 6.3
Away BA 2.49 runs 3.7

Very telling.

In regards to Baldelli, I’m not suprised he is struggling. From what I have read about him I believe his health issues are from Lyme Disease. He had it in HS and it looks like it may have come back. It may have been in remission.

I have some knoledge of this because I have been dealing with it for 4+ years. Fatigue and muscle problems are a big part of it which is what he is dealing with.
Vince June 2nd, 2009 at 10:45 am
Yankee Ray :

I concur that Mark DeRosa would be a good addition especially with the versatility he brings and the continuing uncertanty of Nady’s elbow.
Other than bullpen help, this is the area the Yankees need to round out the team.

http://cleveland.indians.mlb.c....._id=136660
Jon Ringland June 2nd, 2009 at 10:45 am
“If you don’t see that Joba is the 2nd best starting pitcher, then I can’t really help you.”

Its game two of the world series. CC tossed game 1 and lost. You start Joba over AJ?
five iron from fenway June 2nd, 2009 at 10:45 am
Betsy go ahead and find me 10 – Halliday, CC, Santana, Bedard, Grienke, Lincecum,
Carl June 2nd, 2009 at 10:45 am
Patrick,

I was very wrong on the quote.

Teixeira called his Angels tenure “the best 2 1/2 months of my career,”

“After the season, my wife and I stayed in L.A. for 10 days. I thought there was a really good chance I’d be back. It would be different if my family or my wife’s family was from the West Coast.”

“I’m a businessman, too, and in the end, the Yankees made the best offer, and it was the best situation for my family,” Teixeira said.
Jon Ringland June 2nd, 2009 at 10:46 am
“Agreed!!!! I wanna hear sterlings call on that.”

I bet he wet himself
Patrick June 2nd, 2009 at 10:46 am
Jon you are not looking at the facts pal. So far this year Joba has been the second best starter on the Yanks, there is no disputing that fact. Look at the stats my friend. I don’t think that will continue with Wang getting healthy and Burnett hopefully turning things around but SO FAR he has been the 2nd best.

Just last week Francessa was arguing that Joba was never as dominant a starter as he was a reliever. He was going through all of Joba’s starts and pointing out how many walks and hits he’s giving up (quoting WHIP = lol). He was also talking about the velocity differences. I also was talking about the many people on the Joba to the bullpen bandwagon, not just Francessa. SCORES of people have argued that Joba isn’t a dominant starter.

Putting Joba in the bullpen would hurt the team now and it would be devastating for the team’s future.
GeorgeInJax June 2nd, 2009 at 10:47 am
What I enjoyed seeing the most from Joba last night was how aggressively he attacked the strike zone. Much less tentative then previous starts. his confidence & demeanor in the 8th was incredible. Hope he builds on this for his next outing.
Hopefully Phil Hughes can tap into that same well of confidence on his next turn.
MaineYankee June 2nd, 2009 at 10:48 am
Knowledge

I’m taking spelling from GB7.
Brandon ? Is Berroa really starting today ???? June 2nd, 2009 at 10:48 am
“Its game two of the world series. CC tossed game 1 and lost. You start Joba over AJ?”

If he’s the 2nd best SP, yes.
Christina - Pictures from the Scranton WB Game- Melancon and Shelley! June 2nd, 2009 at 10:50 am
Speaking during a court hearing in Albany Monday, Yankees CEO Lonn Trost says 90 percent of non-suite stadium tickets cost under $100.

Trost and Levine are in Albany trying to fight off releasing documents to the public. “Assemblymen Richard Brodsky, a Westchester Democrat, and James Brennan, a Brooklyn Democrat, are questioning what Brodsky claims is nearly $4 billion in financing and tax breaks over 30 years that was used to build the new ballpark. The legislators say many ticket prices have been hiked beyond the reach of fans.”
————

Guys, how is this true, 90% of the seats being less than 100 dollars? He must not be counting any of the seats in the lower level, but how can you just eliminate those seats from your calculations? In the old stadium, the entire lower level wasn’t considered a suite.
Benny Blanco June 2nd, 2009 at 10:51 am
Joba’s Career as a starter

6-2( 22 starts) 3.19 era. In 118.2 innings, he has allowed 110 hits, 48 runs, 42 er, 11hr, 52 walks, 125K’s 1.35 whips.
Jon Ringland June 2nd, 2009 at 10:51 am
“SCORES of people have argued that Joba isn’t a dominant starter.

Putting Joba in the bullpen would hurt the team now”

Scores of people are right, because he’s not a consistently dominant starter. He DEFINITELY has the potential to be, Im not arguing that, but he is not dominant at the moment bc its a safe bet that you’re going to get 5 inning, 2 run ball on 100 pitches. Thats good but its not dominant and it kills your bullpen. Putting Joba in the pen hurts the team now? How? CC/AJ/Wang/Pettitte/Hughes is a fantastic starting 5.
rodg12 June 2nd, 2009 at 10:52 am
Yankees Starters ERA+
CC – 132
Joba – 123
Pettitte – 111
AJ – 95
Hughes – 84

Yankees Starters Average Game Score
CC – 57
Joba – 52
AJ – 51
Pettitte – 49
Hughes – 47
jennifer June 2nd, 2009 at 10:52 am
Patrick Does Mike think he is going to strike out 20 guys every start? Of course the stats won’t be the same, of course he won’t be as dominate. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure that out. Mike will be talking how it was a weak hitting injury depleted Indians team. Anything to keep his stupid argument going.
Wave Your Hat June 2nd, 2009 at 10:52 am
CB-

You also need to consider what actually happened on the Yanks end. Instead of Teixeira and Swisher, you would have had Swisher and Gardner, with Nady’s injury.

I would think that’s more than a 4 game difference?

Anyway, the Yanks signing Teixeira always made so much sense I was amazed there were actually people who thought we should have let him go this winter.
bru June 2nd, 2009 at 10:53 am
the red sox will go as far as their pitching takes them.

pap is good but teams have shown he can be beat,catcher is a problem,ss,rf,lowell getting old,bay will be a fa,ortiz is done,ells obp is a concern.

if becket,dice,lester pitch well & buchholz comes up & does well they will be tough.
but if becket,lester,dice,buchholz struggle they are done.

they very shortly will have to make several moves.
GeorgeInJax June 2nd, 2009 at 10:54 am
Ok, Now I’m going to open myself up to some serious ripping.

Can we consider Kei Igawa for long relief?

He’s not going to crack this rotation with 6 front line guys ahead of him & when Kennedy gets back to form he’ll be 7 back. He’s not trade material with his contract.

I know he sucked when he’s been up before, but he’s been surprisingly reliable and steady at AAA. He was minor league pitcher of the year last year & currently leading pitcher in stats a SWB. A lefty to boot too!
SJ44 June 2nd, 2009 at 10:54 am
Geez, not another Joba to the bullpen thread. Enough already!

If folks can’t grasp how much more important it is to have this kid pitch as a starter rather than wasting him in the 8th inning, nothing can be said to help you.

If you look at the numbers and not the names, Joba has been the second best starting pitcher on the Yankees THIS YEAR.

That’s with less than 30 career ML starts. Do you have any idea how good that is?

If you look at the first 25 or so career starts from Halliday, Santana, CC and Beckett, Joba’s numbers are better.

The problem is, led by blowhards like Francesa, Yankee fans refuse to give any young player a learning curve. If they aren’t great out of the gate, they are failures.

These days, its not even limited to young players. Do we have to rehash the posts from some of you calling CC and Tex “failures” two weeks into the season?

Joba is not going to leave the starting rotation this year until he reaches his a certain point in his innings.

The sooner Francesa and his minions grasp that simple fact, we can all move on.
Christina - Pictures from the Scranton WB Game- Melancon and Shelley! June 2nd, 2009 at 10:54 am
Will the Joba in the bullpen nonsense ever end?

also, I forgot to post the link for the story about Levine and Trost. http://www.timesunion.com/AspS.....yID=805828
Jon Ringland June 2nd, 2009 at 10:54 am
“Ok, Now I’m going to open myself up to some serious ripping.

Can we consider Kei Igawa for long relief?”

I didnt read anything below that
Wave Your Hat June 2nd, 2009 at 10:55 am
Getting Mark DeRosa would be huge.

I don’t think he would become the Yanks’ everyday RF, but I do think it would give the Yanks enough comfort that their infield depth is sufficiently covered to let Berroa go.

It would be a challenge for Girardi to get DeRosa enough at bats, but I assume he’d figure it out.

I still think there are other teams, like the Mets and Angels, that need DeRosa more than we do and, if he is made available, will outbid us.
gayle June 2nd, 2009 at 10:55 am
Jennifer re who chooses the turning point. For the radio what I have found is because drive of the game, turning point of the game and good hands play of the game are all sponsored by different businesses it seems that they choose a different play for each.

So if someone hits a big HR they call that the drive of the game and even though it really should be turning point of the game they chose something else for that.

Makes no sense but it is all about pleasing the sponsors.
Christina - Pictures from the Scranton WB Game- Melancon and Shelley! June 2nd, 2009 at 10:57 am
I wish Igawa could be trusted because he is getting paid a crap load of money to be a minor leaguer
Patrick June 2nd, 2009 at 10:57 am
Jon way to completely miss the point once again.

I’ll try one more time and if you still don’t get it I quit. Many people (including Mike Francesca) have argued that Joba is incapable of being a dominant starting pitcher. Joba proved last night (and last year) that he IS capable of being dominant. Obviously he is inconsistent right now, he’s still young and inexperienced but he PROVED that he can be an ace.
jennifer June 2nd, 2009 at 10:58 am
jon- You put Joba in the pen now, forget him ever being a starter. Why would you put a 4 pitch pitcher in the pen. He is a kid and still learning.
Tom in N.J. June 2nd, 2009 at 10:59 am
Man, why does every thread veer off into the “Joba to the ‘pen” dead end?
disco stu June 2nd, 2009 at 10:59 am
“God help me, I may have to defend Mike here ::gags a little::. Francessa has never once said that Joba is incapable of being a dominant starter, no Yankee fan with a brain would make that claim. His stance, which regretfully i see eye to eye with, is that the team has a greater need of a shut-down back end of the bullpen. That asset takes your team from being very good to being championship quality (see Rivera/Wetteland ‘96, or even Madson/Lidge last year).”

Having a dominant back end of the bullpen is certainly a receipe for winning a championship. But let’s be honest, it is not the ONLY WAY a team can win a pennant or championship.

Look at some of the recent WS winners who did not have dominant back end relief pitching.

2001 – Diamondbacks – they won WS in spite of their bullpen which nearly cost them the championship against us.

2003 – Marlins – Urbina and Looper were hardly Mo and Wetteland circa 1996 and yet they found a way to get past the Cubs in the NLCS and us in the WS

2005 – White Sox – Jenks may have been good, but the rest of the bullpen was very suspect and Ozzie Guillen showed just how much faith he had in the bullpen by letting his starters complete just about every game in sight once the post-season started.

2006 – Cardinals – Wainewright was a leap of faith move by LaRussa after Isringhausen spit the bit – he was SO GOOD in the pen, that the Cardinals have since put him back in the rotation … hmmm that sounds familiar.

Again, having dominant back end bullpen help certainly doesnt hurt – the 2008 Phillies would never have won the WS without Madson and Lidge – but, it is not the only way to reach get to the mountaintop.

Besides, I still maintain that Cashman’s one big in-season move this year is to bring in a big arm for the bullpen to match with Bruney and Mo down the stretch … if the Padres get to firesale mode and start unloading guys like Peavy and Gonzalez, then everyone on the team is expendable including someone like Heath Bell who I think would be a perfect fit for the Yankees.
Patrick June 2nd, 2009 at 10:59 am
Let me say this again, even if Joba were a mediocre (3rd or 4th) starter, I’d STILL want him in the rotation. You people just aren’t grasping how much more valuable starting pitchers are compared to relievers.
Mark D June 2nd, 2009 at 11:00 am
It’s Joba’s pitch count that limits his innings, not his ability.
Joba is being developed and thus not allowed to throw 120 pitches to get through 6 or 7 innings. 100 and he’s done.

It fascinates me how quickly people are willing to mortgage the future for a little more now.
Bill Porter June 2nd, 2009 at 11:00 am
I have no problem with Joba as our 8th inning guy so long as he only does it once every 5 days and he’s also the 1st through 7th inning guy on those days as well.
Tom in N.J. June 2nd, 2009 at 11:00 am
” Many people (including Mike Francesca) have argued that Joba is incapable of being a dominant starting pitcher”

And Eli Manning will never win a Super Bowl.
Patrick from CT June 2nd, 2009 at 11:00 am
Andy and CC have been the best Yankee starters to date; they both have 5 wins!
When the play-offs come around, Andy is probably #4 though…
JohnC June 2nd, 2009 at 11:00 am
Interesting that the draft will a in prime time event this year, starting at 6PM with MLB network carrying the first round. I remember not too long ago when the whole thing was so secretive. Held totally on conference call, only the names of the first round picks being released cause clubs feared college recruiters would try to steer them toward college instead. Keith Law’s mock draft has them taking Klein H.S. lefty Matthew Purke, considered one of the top lefties in the draft. BA has them taking 5 tool H.S. OF Slade Heathcott from Texas H.S.
Jon Ringland June 2nd, 2009 at 11:00 am
“Many people (including Mike Francesca) have argued that Joba is incapable of being a dominant starting pitcher.”

Those arguing he is incapable of being a dominant pitcher have be brain. You and I agree on this. In the end, it boils down to a matter of opinion: where does he best serve the team.
jennifer June 2nd, 2009 at 11:01 am
SJ

Joba is not going to leave the starting rotation this year until he reaches his a certain point in his innings.
********

So when that happens Mike will declare that he was correct that Joba was moved to the pen. He can’t be wrong. LOL
Jon Ringland June 2nd, 2009 at 11:01 am
“Those arguing he is incapable of being a dominant pitcher have be brain”

Wow, EPIC fail, sorry. Those arguing he is incapable of being a dominant STARTING pitcher have NO brain.
MaineYankee June 2nd, 2009 at 11:03 am
CB

Very well stated.

The RS have to know that if they don’t make some moves they will not be able to compete in the AL East. They are going to be willing to part with some of their young pitching in order to get an impact player.

Nick Johnsons name has been thrown around but I think it has to be more significant than that. Victor Martinez also has been mentioned. If they got him it would be a big upgrade but it would cost them.

I would be suprised if they didn’t do something significant.
CB June 2nd, 2009 at 11:04 am
“You also need to consider what actually happened on the Yanks end. Instead of Teixeira and Swisher, you would have had Swisher and Gardner, with Nady’s injury.”

Wave,

I didn’t want to make the post more complicated than it already was but of course you are correct.

It looked like Tex would have been +4 at 1b compared to expected career average play from Swisher and a healthy Nady.

If the yankees hadn’t signed Tex and Nady got hurt and Swisher regressed to his current level of play/uncertain future the yankees would have simply been hosed.

There’s just no way the offense would have been competative.

They would have wound up with Shelley Duncan or Todd Linden in RF with Swisher at 1b or Swisher in RF with Juan Miranda at 1b.

Compared to those scenarios I’d guess Tex is on pace to be a +7-8 win player for the yankees.

So Tex signing with the Yanks rather than the Sox has been a much bigger deal than it even appeared to be in the Winter. Much bigger.

In the end it may have been a 15 win swing.

Now each team would have/will make trades/ adjustments but the gap Tex’s signing could be as large as 15-16 wins.

There’s no way around that. That’s a monstrous gap.

The Yankees had no shot without Tex.
Patrick June 2nd, 2009 at 11:05 am
Jon I see where you are coming from. The thought process is “we have 6 good or great starters and a crappy bullpen, why not put Joba in the pen?” However to that I’d say, well why not put A.J. Burnett in the pen? Joba has been a better starter than A.J. and Burnett certainly has stuff that would translate well to the pen. So why not do it?
Wave Your Hat June 2nd, 2009 at 11:08 am
Since ARod came back, the Yanks are 16-6.

In May, the Yanks had a team ERA of 4.28, in the last 28 days a team ERA of 3.88, in the last week a team ERA of 3.05.

If nothing else convinces you Joba should stay a starter, how about this:

If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.
Christina - Pictures from the Scranton WB Game- Melancon and Shelley! June 2nd, 2009 at 11:10 am
And you guys complain that Pete talks too much about the stadium being a bandbox. You people are just as ridiculous with the continuous talk of the Joba in the bullpen debate. This time you cant even blame Mike Francesa because he isn’t even on television yet.
CB June 2nd, 2009 at 11:11 am
“then everyone on the team is expendable including someone like Heath Bell who I think would be a perfect fit for the Yankees.”

This is the guy I’m hoping they’ll be able to trade for as well. I’d love for them to go out and get Heath Bell but the Pads will likely get more for him from a team that needs a closer.

“Victor Martinez also has been mentioned. If they got him it would be a big upgrade but it would cost them.”

Sox big decision is whether to try to go out and trade for a superstar. I’m sure they’d love Martinez (who wouldn’t…). But to get that player it will cost them Bucchholz and/ or Lars Anderson.

The Sox big problem with their offense is that they just are not even remotely the same team on the road. It was like that last year and that could have been a blip. But it’s continued on and gotten worse this year.

The Sox right handed hitters are not the same players on the road. Pedroia, Youkilis, Bay, etc. derive enormous benefits from playing in Fenway. They don’t hit for nearly the same power on the road. All of those HR/ doubles that the wall creates turn into outs on the road.
Jon Ringland June 2nd, 2009 at 11:11 am
“Joba has been a better starter than A.J. and Burnett certainly has stuff that would translate well to the pen. So why not do it?”

Valid enough point. AJ Burnett has never been a reliever in his career, Joba has. Plus Joba has shown the ability to get it done in the late innings, an ability that not everyone possesses. And in my own little world, when Mo retires, I’d like to see Joba close.
Jon Ringland June 2nd, 2009 at 11:12 am
“And you guys complain that Pete talks too much about the stadium being a bandbox. You people are just as ridiculous with the continuous talk of the Joba in the bullpen debate. This time you cant even blame Mike Francesa because he isn’t even on television yet.”

Much of the blame can come my way, I always end up bringing it up one way or the other :-/
MaineYankee June 2nd, 2009 at 11:12 am
SJ44

I totally agree.

There is no question the bullpen is a problem. Cashman has proven in the past that he will get what the team needs to make the push.

It doesn’t make sense to take a kid that has the ability to be a dominate SP and put him in the BP. There will be RP available that will benefit the Yankees more than sacrificeing Joba’s future.
GeorgeInJax June 2nd, 2009 at 11:12 am
Having excess starting pitching is a great problem to have.
Relief pitching is always suspect as that is the nature of relief pitching.
Thank goodness we have such a proven closer.
MaineYankee June 2nd, 2009 at 11:15 am
CB

From what I’ve heard Anderson is struggling at AAA this year. Not sure if it would affect his value or not.
Wave Your Hat June 2nd, 2009 at 11:18 am
I’ll be a contrarian.

I think the bullpen was a problem early, but I don’t think it is really a problem anymore.

The bullpen ERA in March and April was 6.46, in May it was 4.04. (For comparison, the ERA of our starters’ was 4.41 in May).

That’s a huge improvement, but the problem is when there is a bad relief performance we see it in the context of our early season bullpen woes, which makes it seem worse than it really is.

The bullpen is sorting itself out and will be fine, IMO. I wouldn’t make any drastic moves to try to fix something that in fact may be fine.
rmel June 2nd, 2009 at 11:19 am
WFAN 3:05pm Today after 2 hours on the Mets collapse

Fat Man
” So Jobba throws 8 innings….Guess what folks so do many other starting pitchers….Bronson Arroyo has done it many times in his career…Yanks greatest need is in the pen where Jobba belongs….Lets see how long he last in his next 2 starts against the Rays and the Sox….Cleveland is basically a AAA team….Lets be honest folks….Lets see what happens in the next 13 games against real teams….lets see how long the bullpen last”
GET REAL June 2nd, 2009 at 11:19 am
Christina

That doesn’t make sense. Pete and Mike bring this crap up, not us. They continue to make this a debate, I don’t want to hear about Joba to the bullpen or the stadium being a bandbox anymore.
Trevor June 2nd, 2009 at 11:19 am
Francesa with his Joba to the pen argument is just showing his lack of patience.
If you listen to him closely his whole argument is based on THIS year. What will make the Yankees go over the top. Without giving a thought to next year. He doesn’t feel like watching growing pains that comes with when you try to develop young pitching.
The easy way out to him would be to just place Joba in the pen.
I guess he has yet to notice the Yankees aren’t all about this year. At-least not to the extreme like they’ve been in the past. They actually give next year a thought.
I haven’t listened to him alot recently. Wonder what his thoughts on the year Melky (who he doesn’t like) is having?
Does he still drool over Ellsbury who is not as good a player as Melky
GeorgeInJax June 2nd, 2009 at 11:19 am
Robertson has really good “stuff” if he sharpens up his control a bit he’ll be deadly.
Coke has had a few bed outings but overall has been good.
Aceves is developing into a good swingman. And Mo is Mo.
So I don’t buy into our bullpen being a huge problem.
Does it need some improvement YES, but that’s true for most teams.
Jon Ringland June 2nd, 2009 at 11:19 am
“I wouldn’t make any drastic moves to try to fix something that in fact may be fine.”

As we saw on Sunday, Robertson/Coke/Veras is NOT fine with the game on the line.
ANSKY June 2nd, 2009 at 11:19 am
How on earth does Francesa still have his job?

Only thing I can think of is ‘enough morons take the bait’ to give him the ratings he needs to justify his foolish existence on the air.

If he teamed with Lupica on the air, that show would go off the charts. Two “masters” leading a pack of debating monkeys.
CB June 2nd, 2009 at 11:20 am
MaineYankee,

Anderson is stuggling a lot – and he’s still in AA. They called him up to AA towards the end of last season and he tore up the league. Very impressive for a 20 year old.

They wanted him to get more AA at bats and this season he’s really struggled. He isn’t hitting for power or average.

I don’t think this changes his prospect status too much. It’s still too early and he’s young for AA.

He’s not a great athlete but so far the bat’s been there.

He’s bring back quite a bit in a trade.
Patrick from CT June 2nd, 2009 at 11:20 am
Come on Guys this is getting old. Joba only goes to the Pen before September if Mo gets hurt.
Much more can be made of if Wang should start over Hughes at this point.
The only thing that is not working right now is the Pen and that is largely because Bruney is hurt.
Like I have, and others have stated, the bench should be improved by replacing Berroa.
stuart a June 2nd, 2009 at 11:20 am
how about putting melancon in the pen, get bruney back and relax about the pen………………

wang should go into the rotation and send hughes to the minors. i think hughes will be a very good pitcher but wang deserves to be a starter this year.

the pen if healthy will be good, watch it. melancon is a stud……bruney if healthy is a good releif pitcher with dominating stuff….
rodg12 June 2nd, 2009 at 11:20 am
Heath Bell would be a great get for the Yanks if he becomes available. Huston Street is also a possibility (though I’d prefer Bell).

I really wish the Yanks would have signed Juan Cruz and given up that 4th rounder. He’s been throwing well for KC (a little rocky as of late, but good overall) and would have added stability to our pen.
MaineYankee June 2nd, 2009 at 11:21 am
John Ringland

Joba was a RP for a few months. For his career he has been a starter. So it’s a strech to say he has been a RP.
JeterJobaFan June 2nd, 2009 at 11:23 am
Joba is a starter until Cashman and Gerardi decide differently. They both made statements that Joba going to the pen had not discussed. Isn’t that enough for Joba to the — fans and the fact he pitched an awesome game yesterday. Wasn’t the atmosphere electric. That is what happens when he is ON. No way is this potentian ace going to the p–.
Wave Your Hat June 2nd, 2009 at 11:24 am
“As we saw on Sunday, Robertson/Coke/Veras is NOT fine with the game on the line.”

Jon, all bullpens blow games. If your goal is never to blow a game from the pen, you are doomed to disappointment, I fear.

Robertson and Coke have talent and need experience at the major league level. I predict the sum of their performances this year will be very positive.
MaineYankee June 2nd, 2009 at 11:27 am
CB

Have you seen Anderson play? Wondering what his strengths and weakness are.
Laura - Stay in 1st place together, strike out alone! June 2nd, 2009 at 11:28 am
If Nady can’t field, then by all means – go out and get DeRosa.
Jon Ringland June 2nd, 2009 at 11:29 am
MaineYankee,

If you delete the second sentence of your last post it reads as follows:

“Joba was a RP for a few months. So it’s a strech to say he has been a RP.”
Jon Ringland June 2nd, 2009 at 11:30 am
“MaineYankee,

If you delete the second sentence of your last post it reads as follows:

“Joba was a RP for a few months. So it’s a strech to say he has been a RP.”

He was straight up unhittable as a reliever is the point here. Potential closers like that are much harder to find then starting pitchers.
rmel June 2nd, 2009 at 11:31 am
The thing that gets me is that Melancon is being wasted in the minors…I mean i would rather see him up here then Veras or Tomko….I mean can he do much worse then those 2…He needs to get ML innings under his belt….He will get rattle time to time but i think in the long run he will be fine
MaineYankee June 2nd, 2009 at 11:33 am
Jon Ringland
June 2nd, 2009 at 11:29 am
MaineYankee,

If you delete the second sentence of your last post it reads as follows:

“Joba was a RP for a few months. So it’s a strech to say he has been a RP.”

————————————————–

If I deleted the first and last it reads as follows:

For his career he has been a starter.
Wave Your Hat June 2nd, 2009 at 11:33 am
“Potential closers like that are much harder to find then starting pitchers.”

The I propose deferring the Joba to the pen debate until such time as the Yanks are in need of a closer.
Coach6423 June 2nd, 2009 at 11:33 am
Jon Ringland June 2nd, 2009 at 11:30 am

“MaineYankee,

If you delete the second sentence of your last post it reads as follows:

“Joba was a RP for a few months. So it’s a strech to say he has been a RP.”

He was straight up unhittable as a reliever is the point here. Potential closers like that are much harder to find then starting pitchers.

For real??
Jon Ringland June 2nd, 2009 at 11:33 am
“The thing that gets me is that Melancon is being wasted in the minors…I mean i would rather see him up here then Veras or Tomko….I mean can he do much worse then those 2…He needs to get ML innings under his belt….He will get rattle time to time but i think in the long run he will be fine”

Agree 100%
Frankie speaking . . . June 2nd, 2009 at 11:35 am
Nothing is ever said or heard of Damaso Marte. It’s like he dropped off the face of the earth.
Tantron Willoughby endured the Midges June 2nd, 2009 at 11:36 am
Two points from Cleveland:
1. Progressive field is one of the finest fields to view a game despite the midges.

2. It’s great that the NYY are beating the teams they are supposed to beat!!!!
CB June 2nd, 2009 at 11:36 am
maineyankee,

I’ve never seen anderson play in person. From scouting reports his strengths are his advanced pitch recognition and command of the zone coupled with plus power. He’s patient and hits the ball hard. Very nice combination in a 20 year old.

His limitations are his lack of athleticism. He really is a 1b. Ok in the field but doesn’t have very good range. I’ve also seen reports where some scouts have described him as quite “stiff” and doesn’t move well.
Patrick from CT June 2nd, 2009 at 11:36 am
“If Nady can’t field, then by all means – go out and get DeRosa.”

Sure, that would be great.
He can play infield and outfield.
What’s he going to cost?
How much playing time does he need to stay sharp?
I could see him playing 3b twice a week and OF twice a week.

A real good utility guy like DeRosa and another good Pen arm like Street might just push this team to #27…
Steve B (Wouldn't it be cool if AJ's ERA was 3.14) June 2nd, 2009 at 11:36 am
“The RS have to know that if they don’t make some moves they will not be able to compete in the AL East. They are going to be willing to part with some of their young pitching in order to get an impact player”

Looking at the rest of the AL, Boston could probably do next to nothing and still be the odds on favorite to win the the Wild Card. Don’t see how they can compete with the Yankees without adding a fairly significant bat though.
Tantron Willoughby endured the Midges June 2nd, 2009 at 11:38 am
Enuff with the Joba bullpen nonsense. Joba is going to be the Curt Shilling of the starting rotation for the NYY plain and simple!
Patrick from CT June 2nd, 2009 at 11:39 am
“The I propose deferring the Joba to the pen debate until such time as the Yanks are in need of a closer.”

Yup!
Patrick from CT June 2nd, 2009 at 11:39 am
“The I propose deferring the Joba to the pen debate until such time as the Yanks are in need of a closer.”

Yup!
Coach6423 June 2nd, 2009 at 11:39 am
204 seasons have been pitched by players with over 35 saves.
MaineYankee June 2nd, 2009 at 11:40 am
If Toronto can stay close till they get some of their SP back they could challenge for the WC.
Christina - Pictures from the Scranton WB Game- Melancon and Shelley! June 2nd, 2009 at 11:40 am
Interesting how Burnett and Padilla have the same record and close to the same ERA. (I have no idea what im trying to say but somehow the Joba debate needs to subside).
IDCWYT June 2nd, 2009 at 11:40 am
They are 30-21, the pen while not a strength isn’t that bad. I wil only get better as they get healthy. Bruney will get back (I Hope), Marte (will he be back soon), aceves has been good.

As the starters have continued to improve so has the bullpen. I look at the bullpen as a function of the starters. Starters going 7+ makes the bullpen much better.

The latest bullpen meltdown came in a game where the starter didn’t go deep.
JeterJobaFan June 2nd, 2009 at 11:41 am
to quote a poster here a couple of months ago: “Relievers can be bought and developed . . an ace comes out of the farm system every 5 years or so”. . . . That describes Joba to a T.
Benny Blanco June 2nd, 2009 at 11:42 am
I love how some of you just overuse the term “Ace”.

We have an “ace” on our team, his name is Carsten Charles.

if Joba is pitching well, i could care less if he is the 1st,2nd,3rd,4th or 5th atarter when your staff consist of CC,WANG, Burnett, pettite and hughes. If it was up to some of you, our staff would be, Santana, CC, HOLLIDAY, WEBB And Lincecum…..lol
MaineYankee June 2nd, 2009 at 11:42 am
CB

Trenton is playing Portland this weekend. I may go to a game so I can see him first hand.
Tom in N.J. June 2nd, 2009 at 11:43 am
Any indication on who the Yankees are looking at in the draft?
William Buckner June 2nd, 2009 at 11:44 am
I mentioned this last night. The Rockies are going into sell mode.

I’d like the Yankees to target two of their players, Hawpe and Street.

That said, not sure of the costs.
CountryClub June 2nd, 2009 at 11:44 am
Jon Ringland June 2nd, 2009 at 11:30 am

He was straight up unhittable as a reliever is the point here. Potential closers like that are much harder to find then starting pitchers.

——————

The simple reason for this is because the best pitchers in baseball, the pitchers that have the stuff to be dominant closers, are all starters. The only ones who make their way to the pen are the ones that fail after years of chances as starters or who cant stay healthy. So far Joba hasnt fallen into either category. He’s had minor injury concerns, yes. But nothing that should make you think he cant withstand 200 innings as a starter.

A few of you have mentioned that you think Joba can be a good starting pitcher eventually but he’d do more good for this year’s team in the pen. Maybe that’s true and maybe it isnt. But is it worth putting him in the pen this year knowing that you’re stunting his growth as a starter? He’d have the same innings cap next yeat that he has this year.

Just let him pitch his 140 innings this year as a starter and then save 10 innings for him to go to the pen for the playoffs. Then next year he’ll be ready for 180 innings and the Yanks can pretty much take off the training wheels.
ellen June 2nd, 2009 at 11:44 am
Hey, JJ Putz imploded yesterday. The Mets’ 8th inning guy isn’t getting it done. Hmmm, they need a guy with dynamite stuff to fill that gap; someone with several plus pitches; someone dominant. How about Santana?

Ridiculous, right? Makes about as much sense as Joba being a set-up guy.
Doreen June 2nd, 2009 at 11:45 am
Patrick from CT -

I agree. The ONLY scenario that I envision sending Joba to the bullpen before his innings limit is really unmentionable (Mo is unable to go).

Joba to the pen is a last-resort fix for this season. There is time and there are other ways to go before even looking in that direction. They are winning. There is no emergency here, in spite of the fact that the bullpen has been inconsistent. It’s a definite weakness, but right now, it’s not causing the team to break, is it? They were much more frightening in April than they’ve been in May – and that’s because the starters are beginning to give their expected performances. A less-exposed bullpen is a better bullpen.

And that’s the last I’ll have to say on Joba to the pen.
Chris Barrows June 2nd, 2009 at 11:45 am
For those of you who’ve been to the stadium, I got tickets(for free) to the lower level of the upper deck. Are there any restrictions in the New Yankee Stadium or anything I need to know in regards to trying to experience in my first trip to the New Stadium…advise is appreciated(and I’m also sick of the Joba debate)
GeorgeInJax June 2nd, 2009 at 11:46 am
Steve B, Where would we put this “Significant Bat”?

The roster is limited by having Matsui at DH, unless they just eat his contract there is no room for a position player that would be drastic improvement to what we currently have. We have a really good team now.

Maybe next year when Matsui/Damon/Nady come off the books.
Doreen June 2nd, 2009 at 11:47 am
Country Club -

Not only would putting him in the pen to save this year mean he’ll have an innings limit again next year, but it will lead to the same tedious arguments/debates we’re having right now. If they don’t let him stay in the rotation this season, it will never, ever end.
MaineYankee June 2nd, 2009 at 11:47 am
ellen
June 2nd, 2009 at 11:44 am
Hey, JJ Putz imploded yesterday. The Mets’ 8th inning guy isn’t getting it done. Hmmm, they need a guy with dynamite stuff to fill that gap; someone with several plus pitches; someone dominant. How about Santana?

Ridiculous, right? Makes about as much sense as Joba being a set-up guy
——————————————————

Stop making so much sense.
Phil June 2nd, 2009 at 11:50 am
There aren’t a lot of of 23 year old starters who are consistently dominant. Joba’s career is starting out just like the careers of a number of great starters. The pen idiocy needs to end.
Jon Ringland June 2nd, 2009 at 11:51 am
I, Jon Ringland, hereby retire my Joba Pen vs Bullpen comments. It really is becoming too much.

Also, if I here the 1-877-KARS4KIDS song one more time, I am going to lose my mind.
Jon Ringland June 2nd, 2009 at 11:52 am
*Pen vs Starter
CB June 2nd, 2009 at 11:54 am
maineyankee,

that’ll be a fun game. tazawa is pitching very well for portland and he might be throwing against trenton. Also i think Smoltz is supposed to make some rehab starts in AA soon. But go check out Anderson and let me know what you think.

Also, if you happen to get a chance to see Zach McCallister throw for Trenton try to catch that game. He’s been outstanding in AA for the yanks. He should be close to a promotion to AAA at some point this season.

If things go well I could see the yankees possibly calling McCallister up to the bigs at some point this season.
bru June 2nd, 2009 at 11:58 am
i can’t wait to hear francessa today.

it is going to cost the red sox big to upgrade.

i would absolutely love for the yankees to make a big trade for someone like bell.

our pen would be sick.
MaineYankee June 2nd, 2009 at 12:00 pm
Jon Ringland
June 2nd, 2009 at 11:51 am
I, Jon Ringland, hereby retire my Joba Pen vs Bullpen comments. It really is becoming too much.

Also, if I here the 1-877-KARS4KIDS song one more time, I am going to lose my mind.

————————————————————

To support your point, the valley is so wide between both sides. And there will be no resolution because whichever place he ends up will not resolve the issue because each side has a valid arguement at least in their mind.
Wave Your Hat June 2nd, 2009 at 12:01 pm
I’ve been having fun looking at actual Yankee pitching results rather than what we FEEL the pitching results have been.

Many seem to think the Yanks need a reliable 8th inning guy, but the statistics, surprisingly to me, don’t support it.

Guess what? The eighth inning has been the second-best inning the Yanks have had pitching-wise. Hard to believe, but true.

On a RA basis (like ERA, but including all runs scored, not just earned runs), the 8th: 4.24. On an OPS basis, the 8th: .724.

The 8th is tied for 2nd in RA (with the 6th), behind only the 3rd (3.88). The 8th is tied for 2nd in OPS (.724), behind only the 6th (.714).

Inning by inning:

1st: 4.76/.798
2nd: 7.05/.866
3rd: 3.88/.736
4th: 6.35/.901
5th: 5.29/.842
6th: 4.24/.714
7th: 6.88/.824
8th: 4.24/.724
9th: 4.39/.734
10+: 4.50 .576

So, in fact, the 8th inning has been pretty much close to the least of our problems, pitching wise.

Data from baseball reference: http://www.baseball-reference......;year=2009
MaineYankee June 2nd, 2009 at 12:02 pm
CB

Smoltz pitched in NH for the Sea Dogs recently. Not sure if he is still with them now.
Stuckey June 2nd, 2009 at 12:04 pm
I’ve been reluctant to get into this debate, but here goes.

Any statistical analysis of the Yankees pitching will clearly demonstrate, the 8th inning has not been a problem area. In fact, overall, it’s the Yankees second best inning from any statistical measure (ERA, opponent OPS, OPS+, whatever).

The pro-bullpen camp relies more on anecdotal analysis. So I went back and looked at what games a lights-out 8th inning guy would have positively affected for the better.

I stopped around early May because I hadn’t found one that you can conclusively argue would have made a difference (in large part because they Yankees have WON 15 of their last 19).

There have been NO blown 8th inning leads or runs given up in the 8th since early May (at least), which is role Chamberlain would theoretically fill.

The only games you can make the argument for is a few late loses (Philly in extra at home, Cleveland in the 9th the other day), which for sake of argument can say a inning or two of Chamberlain could have extended the game and given the Yankees additional OPPORTUNITIES to win (Cleveland doesn’t score in the 9th, Yanks don’t automatically win that game in extras, and I think two killer doubleplays had more to do with those loses than bullpen issues.)

And take a look at the Yanks last 20 games, saying a deeper bullpen (by one guy) would have positively affected them is something of a stretch too. Two losses were clearly on the starter, the other two the ones I mentioned above.

The POINT of all this is the assumption that you’ll get maximum value of a SITUATIONAL pitcher over a long haul. Yankess have played well over 20 games where even if they had Chamberlain 1.07, it might not have effectively made much of a difference in their record, MAYBE by 1 game.

Is THAT worth giving up 5 starts from a quality reliever (30-plus innings?)

That’s the 8th inning problem. It assumes

1.) The Yankees haven’t been getting decent work in that role to begin with

2.) There WILL be situations where Chamberlain is UNIQUELY qualified to excel in, and in nearly a month of baseball, there hasn’t been.

If Chamberlain was int he pen the last month. He’s probably have 7 or so appearances and a low ERA, it doesn’t mean the Yankees would have won even ONE more ballgame.

I’d like to see someone try to dispute that.
Jon Ringland June 2nd, 2009 at 12:06 pm
“the valley is so wide between both sides. And there will be no resolution because whichever place he ends up will not resolve the issue because each side has a valid arguement at least in their mind.”

We agree on something!
CB June 2nd, 2009 at 12:08 pm
“Many seem to think the Yanks need a reliable 8th inning guy, but the statistics, surprisingly to me, don’t support it.”

Perceptions of relief pitching and related expectations are completely out of whack.

If a starting pitcher gives up 4 runs over 6 innings that’s a usually a decent enough start. Ok. People generally won’t get that bent out of shape about it.

But if the bull pen then goes out and gives up 1 or 2 runs over the next 3 it’s an utter disaster.

I understand the idea of high leverage innings.

But that said yankee fans expect the perfection from the bull pen. Any runs they give up are just unexceptable.

Mo has completely skewed people’s perspectives. Joba’s 2007 just heightened the frenzy.

Yankee fans will never be satisfied with the yankees pen regardless of what happens on the field.

Best way to maximize the bull pen’s efficacy is to make sure they pitch as little as possible.
SJ44 June 2nd, 2009 at 12:08 pm
One other point…..

Go and look at every teams 8th inning guy and tell me which one of them have 3 plus pitches.

I’ll save you a lot of time. Nobody has a pitcher with that arsonal pitching in the 8th inning.

What the Francesa’s of the world don’t understand is, you don’t take someone with Joba’s stuff and put them in the 8th inning. You nuture him in the rotation and allow him to learn and grow.

They will always be able to find a bullpen arm at the deadline. That’s not going to be an issue if they decide to go that route.

If Bruney and Marte can make it back by the end of the month, that’s like obtaining two good arms in a trade.

As long as the starters stay healthy, the bullpen issues will get worked out. The only question will be whether its an in house solution or they go outside the organization to fill the need.
Vince June 2nd, 2009 at 12:10 pm
Jesus Montero update:

http://www.minorleaguebaseball.....pid=524968
CB June 2nd, 2009 at 12:11 pm
“Smoltz pitched in NH for the Sea Dogs recently. Not sure if he is still with them now.”

Good to know. I thought he was in A ball. He’d be fun to see.

It”ll be interesting to see what they do with him.

It’ll be so strange to see him in a non-atlanta uniform.
SJ44 June 2nd, 2009 at 12:11 pm
CB,

To your point, folks ought to go back and look at Nelson and Stanton’s game logs from 1998-99. They would be shocked at how many times they stunk up the joint.

There is a perception those guys were lights out. They weren’t. They did however, save their best work for the post-season. However, during the season, they were very inconsistent.

Great starting pitching and Mo, sometimes going 2 innings for saves, were the keys of those teams and not Stanton and Nelson.
MaineYankee June 2nd, 2009 at 12:13 pm
I was listening to the Indians feed the other night and they had the same problem the Yankees had.

Early in the season the SP wasn’t good and had a profound effect on the bullpen.

Like CB said, the less the BP pitches the better they look.
SJ44 June 2nd, 2009 at 12:15 pm
A scout I know was at Smoltz last start in Portland.

Clocked him at 87-89 with the fastball and wasn’t impressed.

Contrast that to the glowing reports Gammons has given about his rehab and it makes you wonder.

42 years old, 5 elbow surgeries and 1 major shoulder surgery. That’s pretty tough to expect a lot out of the guy given his medical history.
CB June 2nd, 2009 at 12:15 pm
“Go and look at every teams 8th inning guy and tell me which one of them have 3 plus pitches.”

SJ,

Forget about 8th inning guys. How many closers have 3 plus pitches?

The only one I can think of off the top of my head is Soria.

The goal of the yankees is to win the world series.

How could yankee fans not want Joba to throw 2 games in a seven game series as a starter.

He brings his A stuff to those two playoff/world series starts they win those two games 95% of the time.

That start last night was the kind of performance that wins world series.

It’s inexplicable that the team would be better off having him throw 3-4 innings in a post season series rather than 14+ innings.
Guy Incognito June 2nd, 2009 at 12:17 pm
Chris Barrows:

What specifically do you want to know? I go to 20+ games a year…

If you want to bring anything in like food, it needs to be in a clear plastic bag. No backpacks or briefcases, laptops or anything like that. Your seats are pretty good in the lower level “Terrace.” Bring lots of money and sunscreen for a day game.

Check out the Yankee Museum; if you take the ramp from the Great Hall up about 4 levels it’ll be on your left…the food is good but really expensive. If there’s something you’re dying to try go ahead but if you are bringing your family stop at a bodega and get some sandwiches to bring in.

Batting practice, they let you down on the field level for BP but not up to the field; that’s where the bourgeoisie sit.

Taking the subway? From the West Side below 59th St you can take the B or D straight to the Stadium or the A/C/E to 59th Street/7th Avenue (Columbus Circle) and switch to the B/D on the opposite platform there. From the East Side take the 4 all the way up to the Bronx…do not drive on pain of traffic.
CB June 2nd, 2009 at 12:18 pm
“To your point, folks ought to go back and look at Nelson and Stanton’s game logs from 1998-99. They would be shocked at how many times they stunk up the joint.”

I know. It’s remarkable how this myth of Stanton and Nelson has developed.

It’s as if both of them were putting up sub 1.00 ERAs.

They were very good – for relievers.

But good for relievers generally isn’t very good.

There’s a reason why teams every year look for bull pen help.

Guys in the pen are going to be inconsistent because they are limited.

Look at Putz. Arguably the games best closer in 2007 while pitching in the AL and now he can’t get out the pirates.
rconn23 June 2nd, 2009 at 12:18 pm
Bullpen arms are so volatile, it’s like the stock market.

Does anyone remember the 2004 Red Sox relief staff?

It was an implosive bullpen largely until they reached the postseason. Timlin, Embree, Foulke etc.

Once they reached the postseason, they were lights out.

Of course, the Yankees need more reliability out of the relief corps. But of all the problems a team could have, that’s the easiest one to fix.

The performance of the pen could change on a dime.
Doreen June 2nd, 2009 at 12:19 pm
Stuckey -

Great stuff! Thanks.

SJ44 & CB -

Also, good.

Of course, I’m on this side of the argument to begin with. But I absolutely love when the facts bolster what I know to be true!
Rebecca-Optimist Prime June 2nd, 2009 at 12:21 pm
CB and SJ:

Bullpens are finicky, ain’t they?

Just look at how good Tampa’s pen was last year…and how not good they are this year.

Or the Angels, which have an even worse year-to-year split.

The thing about Stanton and Nelson was that while one was in a slump the other one was generally okay…but really, the underrated superstar hero of that bullpen was Ramiro Mendoza, because he could do so much…his career numers aren’t the most stellar in the world, but he was competent in nearly everything he did and g-d knows how many times he saved everyone else in that bullpen.

We’ve got something like that in Aceves this year…just as long as Girardi doesn’t Proctor him and that’s certainly not a given.
MaineYankee June 2nd, 2009 at 12:21 pm
SJ44
June 2nd, 2009 at 12:15 pm
A scout I know was at Smoltz last start in Portland.

Clocked him at 87-89 with the fastball and wasn’t impressed.

Contrast that to the glowing reports Gammons has given about his rehab and it makes you wonder.

42 years old, 5 elbow surgeries and 1 major shoulder surgery. That’s pretty tough to expect a lot out of the guy given his medical history.

—————————————————–

I heard the same thing. Not sure if it is just a need to build up arm strength or just age.
CB June 2nd, 2009 at 12:22 pm
“Clocked him at 87-89 with the fastball and wasn’t impressed.

Contrast that to the glowing reports Gammons has given about his rehab and it makes you wonder.”

The best of the recent Gammons talk is how great Brad Penny is and how the Red Sox are only going to trade him if they get a fortune back for him.

I think it was over the weekend or something when he said that they’d only trade Penny if they could get a back a prospect like Justin Smoak. It was something like that.

Justin Smoak for Brad Penny. What a world to live in.
ANSKY June 2nd, 2009 at 12:23 pm
Anyone looking for tickets to Springsteen a Giants Stadium – I just read an article saying there were fake tickets out there. Not sure how valid it is, but …. well, just be careful.

I also read an article saying Rep. Chuck Schumer is introducing legislation requiring ticket resellers to register with Federal Trade Commission. The bill would also ban resellers from buying tickets during the first 48 hours of a sale. Great news if is passes.

Phil – I wonder if the start of Dwight Gooden’s career would have been good enough for Francesca and the rest of the crowd that jumps to ‘Joba in the pen’ conclusions based on small if not microscopic sample sizes.

Going into Doc’s 2nd year I could imagine … “Ah he’s only 19 … he only blew high schoolers away until year. He’s only got two pitches and he lost NINE games last year. Clearly good for relief only.”

A few years later, Kerry Wood comes along and the same guys rant that he’s just got to be a closer. “At 20 he hasn’t done nearly what Gooden did as a teenager. 20K’s? That’s just one game. (fast forward yourself to reference any dominant current-day Joba start) Put Wood in the bullpen so he can dominate one inning” Given that innings limits were relatively unheard of at that time, you can fast forward to this year and hear Francesa-types saying “See?? Wood finally got moved to the bullpen!! Someone finally listened to me. I told you so.”
... June 2nd, 2009 at 12:24 pm
Every time I see starter for reliever (be it trade or role change), I keep thinking of Brian Bannister for Ambiorix Burgos
SJ44 June 2nd, 2009 at 12:25 pm
CB,

I’m always humored by folks views and the Yankees.

They cry, “They have to get younger”!!! Yet, they allow no development curve for this to take place.

Phil Coke, a guy who was starting in AA at this time last year, walks a .175 hitter, and he gets killed.

Gardner, who was in AAA at this time last year, screws up on the bases, he gets killed.

Pena, a kid who was in AA last year, screws up on his bunt last night, and he gets killed.

If Joba doesn’t pitch like Roy Halliday every time out, he gets killed.

When are these kids going to learn how to play in the big leagues? At some point, you play them and you live with the mistakes because they are going to get better as time goes on.

Its clear the Yankees, ignoring the pleas from Mike Francesa, some of the hard liners in the print media, and many fans, are ignoring the pleas and are going younger.

They are willing to take the chance in losing some games now in order to get these kids experience at playing at the big league level.

Its the right way to go, as evidenced by their record and the fact that so many of these guys are contributing.

Sure, they will screw up from time to time. That’s baseball.

Overall though, Cabrera, Coke, Gardner, Pena, Hughes, Chamberlain, Aceves and Robertson comprise 32% of the current roster. All young guys, all of have had hands in wins this year.

That’s called “reloading on the fly” and, at least so far, its working.
ANSKY June 2nd, 2009 at 12:25 pm
“Justin Smoak for Brad Penny. What a world to live in.”

Agreed. Look at what the Red Sox gave up for Curt Schilling.
vin June 2nd, 2009 at 12:27 pm
Am I crazy for thinking that Hughes might go into the bullpen once CMW gets back to starting? I’m a big believer in Joba and Phil as starters, but having Phil pitch 2-3 times a week in the ML for 2-3 innings each might benefit his development (and improve the club).

At first I scoffed at the notion, thinking he should continue his development as a starter in SWB, but the more I think about, the more I like it.

Have I gone insane?
86w183 June 2nd, 2009 at 12:27 pm
I’m just hoping Hughes takes Joba’s outing to heart and starts using his change. If he’s only going to throw fastballs and curves then HE should go to the bullpen.

SJ — What do you think the pricetag would be for Huston Street? Is he worth Kontos and a lesser prospect? Seems to me he’s the best outside option for the 8th inning and the Rockies have to be looking to unload some $$$
bru June 2nd, 2009 at 12:28 pm
regardless of what francessa or anybody else says starting pitching is more important than the pen,especially an 8th inning man.

you always concentrate on the starting rotation first.

francessa always says that look at the phillies last year & the yankees in the 90′s but what he fails to realize that the starting pitching is where it all starts & it had to be good enough for the yankees in the 90′s & the phillies last year.

what he also forgets is that cole hammels probably won 2 games in every series last year.

we had a very good bullpen last year so why didn’t we win the division?
starting pitching that’s why.

it is funny that we had a better bullpen last year but didn’t go far but this year we have great starting pitching & we are in first place.

getting an 8th inning guy is & will be easy without giving up a ton.
try going out & getting a good,young starting pitcher & see what it will cost the yankees.

start with phil hughes and or one of our catchers.
ANSKY June 2nd, 2009 at 12:29 pm
Someone should write a movie script where Mike Francesa gets a job as Yanks GM.

It’d sell really well among Sox Nation types, because the plot would have to entail several years of basement-dwelling for the Yankees.
MaineYankee June 2nd, 2009 at 12:29 pm
CB
June 2nd, 2009 at 12:22 pm
“Clocked him at 87-89 with the fastball and wasn’t impressed.

Contrast that to the glowing reports Gammons has given about his rehab and it makes you wonder.”

The best of the recent Gammons talk is how great Brad Penny is and how the Red Sox are only going to trade him if they get a fortune back for him.

I think it was over the weekend or something when he said that they’d only trade Penny if they could get a back a prospect like Justin Smoak. It was something like that.

Justin Smoak for Brad Penny. What a world to live in.

——————————————————–

I guess the Yankees aren’t the only ones who over value their talent.
rover June 2nd, 2009 at 12:32 pm
The diff I saw in Joba last night was he didn’t seem to be so concerned about pacing himself to 7,8,9 innings. This allowed him to be I think far more aggressive. He pitched most of the game like it was the eigth inning. I liked it.
SJ44 June 2nd, 2009 at 12:32 pm
CB,

Buster Olney started the Penny drumbeat a few weeks ago. He wrote a blog calling him a guy that could bring back the most in the trade market. Its like, “geez, Buster, stop drinking the Kool Aid”. It seems ESPN has decided the pump up the guy to help the Red Sox deal him.

Its funny because I really believe these guys think they can influence scouts.

Brad Penny isn’t bringing back anything of value for the Red Sox. Just as John Smoltz isn’t going to be the “most dominant pitcher in the AL” as Joel Sherman said, when he returns.

The Sox need a LH bat. Teams are going to want Buchholz and not Penny in return for a quality LH bat.

You want a quality LH bat? Bowden, Buchholz and Anderson are teams targets. Not Penny, Delcarmen and Baldelli.

Victor Martinez? Why in the world would the Indians trade their franchise player to the Red Sox for Brad Penny?

Its so comical, it makes me happy I have the MLB Network, limiting my exposure to ESPN to a minimum.
CB June 2nd, 2009 at 12:33 pm
“Overall though, Cabrera, Coke, Gardner, Pena, Hughes, Chamberlain, Aceves and Robertson comprise 32% of the current roster. All young guys, all of have had hands in wins this year.”

And that number is only likely to go up by the end of the year. Melancon is going to be back. With Molina’s reinjury Cervelli could be up here for a long time. Add those two guys to the roster and that’s 40% of the team.

One of the big problem the franchise has had has been producing young position players.

That’s why the team never seems to have “depth.” “Depth” is usually equated with the bench but no bench is that great.

Real depth comes from players being called up from the minors and producing.

Where would the team be without Melky, Gardner, Pena, and Cervelli? All guys in the minors last year.

Even if Gardner, Pena and Cervelli “only” turn out to be backups they’ll be of immense value to the team.

But young players are going to have a lot of ups and downs and are going to make mistakes.

You can’t have one without the other.
IRememberCelerinoSanchez June 2nd, 2009 at 12:33 pm
There is no Joba-to-the-pen debate. Not really.

Yes, fans and those in the media who have never run a team and have no idea what they’re saying might say Joba should be the 8th inning guy.

But Cashman, Girardi and the baseball staff of the Yanks have consistently said Joba is a starter.

Francessa can spout his nonsense for five hours a day, every day, but not only does it not make him right, it is absolutely meaningless.

There is no debate. Joba is a starter unless/until it becomes absolutely clear he can’t be one. Let’s check in around 2011 for that one. (Or, we can go back in time and see that Schilling and Halladay were never the 8th inning guy, even as they struggled early on.)
ANSKY June 2nd, 2009 at 12:34 pm
vin – IMO Hughes would benefit greatly from going back to Scranton to keep pitching as a starter if there’s no longer a spot in the Bronx rotation for him. Also IMO, bullpen time for a starter taxes their arm differently than starting, and in the long run is not a good way to bring them along as starters. Especially if they keep going back & forth. How many relievers get more than 70 innings of work a season? How many of them last more than a couple seasons with that workload? Not many.
Stuckey June 2nd, 2009 at 12:34 pm
Problem with Hughes in the bullpen is same as Chamberlain. You have to build these guys up to pitching 200 innings a year if that is goal.

Yanks are on a pace to win 95 games as is and if the April struggles were something of an abberation, they could win more than that.

Not only is it not time to panic, it’s not even time to be concerned.

Two of the three of Wang, Hughes or Chamberlain will likely be in the bullpen if the Yanks make the playoffs.

The issue is can they get there without any of them in the bullpen during the regular season. RIGHT NOW, it looks like it’s very possible.
five iron from fenway June 2nd, 2009 at 12:35 pm
I have an idea.
Montero is clearly too big for catcher and 1st base is blocked for the next several years – perhaps he should be groomed to be the 8th inning guy!
vin June 2nd, 2009 at 12:36 pm
From the link that was posted earlier:

“It’s somewhat of a minor miracle that the Red Sox woke up here this morning at 29-22, with the fourth best winning percentage in the AL and in second place in the AL East.”

Minor miracle?! OK, the starting SS goes down, and his expensive replacement goes down, but the 3rd string SS posts a .298 avg and a .783 OPS… hardly catastrophic.

Ortiz falls off the face of the earth, but it wasn’t that far-fetched a possibility since Manny was dealt and he is still dealing with the wrist injury (and perhaps fewer “milk shakes.”

Matsuzaka missed a month, but Masterson filled his spot and the BP has been healthy enough to overcome his temporary loss.

Developing a team with good depth, and getting good performances from guys you wouldn’t expect (Green, Varitek) hardly qualifies as even a minor miracle.

http://www.bostonherald.com/sp.....id=1176252
SJ44 June 2nd, 2009 at 12:36 pm
86,

If the Yankees could get Street for Miranda, Kontos, and one other prospect, that’s a deal I do in a blink.

Just because I’m a chartiable guy, I’d even throw in Jose Veras! lol

Seriously though, Street would be the guy I’d target. He’s still very young, very competitive, has pitched in the AL, and would be a great setup guy to Mo.

Price tags? It seems that its going to be a hitters market at the deadline so, it may be high. But, the Yankees have the parts to make that deal happen. The question is, do they have the will to do so?
Chris Barrows June 2nd, 2009 at 12:36 pm
Thanks guy…I myself go to about 7 games a year, I just wasn’t sure what people recommended with the new Yankee Stadium in particular(I’m definitely going to scope out the great hall)
CB June 2nd, 2009 at 12:39 pm
“Its funny because I really believe these guys think they can influence scouts.”

One of the most interesting parts of Moneyball, and one of most underrated was it’s description of how teams actively manipulate the media to change talent evaluation perceptions.

And the case study for that in Moneyball was Gammons.
IRememberCelerinoSanchez June 2nd, 2009 at 12:39 pm
When it comes to Gammons, he has lost all credibility when he talks about the Red Sox. When the rookie umpire threw out Varitek, Redmond, Gardenhire and Francona in that game a while back, Gammons talked about how disgraceful it was that Varitek got thrown out. And as he was saying it, ESPN was running footage of Varitek standing out of his crouch, turning around, and visibly jawing at the umpire, for a long time. Yes, the umpire made mistakes and probably shouldn’t have run Redmond, but if any catcher stands up and argues a balls-and-strikes call, showing up the umpire like that, any umpire would throw out the catcher. It’s textbook. But Gammons was indignant.

Gammons is a shill for the Red Sox. It’s really that simple.
Stuckey June 2nd, 2009 at 12:40 pm
A suggestion:

I don’t begrudge any member of the media in drumming up controversy, particularly talks radio hosts who are entertainers, not journalists. They are going to beat the drum that gets them the most attention, as is their job description.

My point is, there are enough intelligent people here and anywhere to have a genuine conversation/debate about this. Why we focus so intently on one person’s views is beyond me.

Any opinion here is no more or less valid than anyone else’s.
MaineYankee June 2nd, 2009 at 12:40 pm
SJ44

The Yankees get killed if they just sign FA.

The RS build from within and they set the standard.

The 90′s team was built with alot of home grown talent but they forget that now.

The Yankees get killed for signing CC but also get killed when they try to develop their own.(Joba).

It’s the Yankees so they must be doing it wrong. It’s their fault no matter which way they do it.

People don’t realize that Tampa and other small market teams wouldn’t be so sucessful without the Yankees and the revenue sharing. They don’t mind the sell outs when the Yankees come to town either.

I guess my point is the Yankees can’t win.
Wave Your Hat June 2nd, 2009 at 12:40 pm
Based on the stats I’ve been looking at, and the game logs Stuckey was looking at, I’d claim that the Yanks had a bullpen problem at the start of the year, but no longer have a bullpen problem.

The reason is the pitching depth the Yanks have in their organization. It has allowed them to find effective replacements, like Aceves and Robertson, for guys who weren’t pitching well with guys .

The Yanks’ pen is pitching very well now. If Bruney and Marte come back and are effective, or if Melancon takes a step forward, the Yanks’ bullpen will be one of the strongest in the league.
GET REAL June 2nd, 2009 at 12:41 pm
Does anyone else realize that the gun was off by a couple mph last night? All of a sudden Joba is tossing 98 and Mariano is tossing 95. Neither one has come close to those numbers all year.
Wave Your Hat June 2nd, 2009 at 12:41 pm
….for guys who weren’t pitching well.

Typos!
CB June 2nd, 2009 at 12:42 pm
“Seriously though, Street would be the guy I’d target. He’s still very young, very competitive, has pitched in the AL, and would be a great setup guy to Mo.”

Unfortunately I don’t think Kontos will do it. They’ll ask for at least McCallister plus other talent. I could see them asking for McCallister, Kontos and another player.

Street will be very expensive to get.
Brandon ? Is Berroa really starting today ???? June 2nd, 2009 at 12:43 pm
stadium gun had Mo at 93.4 and 94 mph was his top last night

Joba sat 93-96 mph topped out at 98 mph. Snr. GET REAL
vin June 2nd, 2009 at 12:44 pm
ANSKY and Stuckey,

My biggest concern would probably be in Hughes’ ability to reach his IP count. He threw 110 IP in 2007, and about 100 IP last year (not counting AFL). Not sure what they want him to throw, but my guess would be 150 max. He’s already thrown 50 IP this year, and if he could serve as a spot starter for the remaining 4 months and 2-3 inning BP guy, then he should be able to get close…
4 months as spot starter = 8 starts (50 IP)
4 months in BP as 2-3 inning guy = 2 games a weeks, 2 IP each = (60 IP)

Just trying to find creative ways to help him and the ML team.
Brandon ? Is Berroa really starting today ???? June 2nd, 2009 at 12:44 pm
“Unfortunately I don’t think Kontos will do it. They’ll ask for at least McCallister plus other talent. I could see them asking for McCallister, Kontos and another player.”

the only way I trade Z-Mac plus others is if Joakim Soria is coming to us in a deal. That’s the only way I do it, or if it’s Andrew Bailey.
Brandon ? Is Berroa really starting today ???? June 2nd, 2009 at 12:48 pm
or Neftali Feliz (god why did Texas land him) stupid Atlanta
CB June 2nd, 2009 at 12:49 pm
“The reason is the pitching depth the Yanks have in their organization. It has allowed them to find effective replacements, like Aceves and Robertson, for guys who weren’t pitching well with guys .”

I think it’s been a combination with the driver being the starters giving them more length.

RLYB had this amazing finding – the 2009 yankees have already had 7 games where the stater pitches 8 innings (of course CC has 4 of them…). In 2008 they had 9 games for the whole season in which the starter went 8. In 2007 they had 10.

The team is on pace to have 22 starts that go 8 innings. The last time they had that many 8 inning starts was 2003.

The bull pen’s role has shrunk due to the starter’s performance. Aceves has absorbed many of the available innings the bull pen had to throw.

If the starters continue what they’re doing and Bruney and marte come back the bull pen will be fine.
rconn23 June 2nd, 2009 at 12:49 pm
I agree that getting Street would probably mean having to give up McAllister.

Given that he’s got the potential to be a middle of the rotation horse, I think that is too steep of a price.
radar racecar June 2nd, 2009 at 12:50 pm
>>stadium gun had Mo at 93.4 and 94 mph was his top last night
Joba sat 93-96 mph topped out at 98 mph. Snr. GET REAL

One of Mo’s pitches was clocked at like 96 or 97 last night at least according to the number that popped up on my TV screen. It does seem like Joba’s reserves his inner beast for the later innings but i dunno if this Mo-scan makes Joba’s velocity last night more questionable? Joba looked awesome out there…no more babying that giant baby please yankees!
vin June 2nd, 2009 at 12:50 pm
“the only way I trade Z-Mac plus others is if Joakim Soria is coming to us in a deal. That’s the only way I do it, or if it’s Andrew Bailey.”

Agreed… it’s awfully tough to trade a SP prospect for a reliever. Of course those two guys should command a heck of a lot more than even McAllister.
GreenBeret7 June 2nd, 2009 at 12:51 pm
Smoltz pitched against Charleston a couple of nights ago, and he was ok. 5 innings 4 hits, 1 run, 0 walks and 6 strikeouts. Really nothing special. Charleston has a couple of good hitters but a lot of swing and miss guys. They’re not overly patient. They did have a few long flies and half of the strikeouts were in his last inning. He wasn’t exactly lighting up the gun, either against the Low A team. He also had a three inning stint about a week earlier. He’s scheduled to make a AAA start this week and then head to Boston.
radar racecar June 2nd, 2009 at 12:51 pm
Soria would be so sweet come september/october
MaineYankee June 2nd, 2009 at 12:51 pm
CB
June 2nd, 2009 at 12:39 pm
“Its funny because I really believe these guys think they can influence scouts.”

One of the most interesting parts of Moneyball, and one of most underrated was it’s description of how teams actively manipulate the media to change talent evaluation perceptions.

And the case study for that in Moneyball was Gammons.

—————————————————–

I don’t get to excited about Moneyball cause I would hate to see my team always be on the edge and constantly re-tool. How much do you think the A’s fans enjoy just making the playoffs but see their star players excell some where else. Course they can return to finish their career there.(Giambi)
DB - (officially panicked 5/13/09) June 2nd, 2009 at 12:51 pm
I completely understand with the advent of todays starters going six innings that the bullpen is more important now than it was 20 years ago. Ever since the stat “Quality Start” was introduced in the early 90′s pitchers have been going less and less.

The true value of a relief pitcher probably is a little undervalued even in the financial aspect of players worth to a team. However, there is no statistical evidence that a reliever who pitches one inning, even in high leverage situations, is valued more than a pitcher who can pitch a quality game.

So far, the Yankees 4 top starters (Hughes is not included)
have the following:
CC – 7 out of 10 Quality Starts
AJ – 5 out of 10
Andy – 5 out of 10
Joba – 5 out of 10

Joba has the 2nd Lowest Era, but the lowest innings pitched.

Given these facts, A pitcher who can give you a QS 50% of his starts (and to be fair, 1 start he went 5.2 and 1 he was pulled after getting hit in the knee) by statistical evidence alone is weighted more than a pitcher who will give you 80 appearances in 80 innings. Even if those appearances are in high leverage situations.

There have been a few statistical categories invented by people smarter than me that document how much a players actions effect the outcome in a game (WPA, +/-WPA, WE, LI) No relief pitcher will effect enough outcomes in a game to be as important as a starting pitcher as evidenced by every one of those categories. There is a reason why relief pitchers don’t make a lot of money, there value to a team is no where near as important as a starting pitcher.

Maybe Mr Francesser needs to get this through his head.
vin June 2nd, 2009 at 12:52 pm
“The bull pen’s role has shrunk due to the starter’s performance. Aceves has absorbed many of the available innings the bull pen had to throw.”

This reminds me of the number you threw out earlier this year – something to the effect of if the Yanks get X number of innings from their starters, then the BP would logically be improved. Interesting POV.
SJ44 June 2nd, 2009 at 12:52 pm
I still think the bullpen is an issue. Its less of an issue when the starters can go 7 in a game but, its an issue.

Veras isn’t reliable at all. In fact, if they DFA’ed him tomorrow and called up Melancon, allowing him to work his way into the mix, they would be better off. Coke and Robertson are rookies and they will have up and down performances. You can’t put them in the “reliable” catagory.

Tomko is just biding time in the pen. Wang is not long for the pen.

Aceves and Mo are about the only consistently reliable options. That’s not good.

On the other hand, if they get Bruney and Marte back by the end of the month, that will help a lot.

Still think though they will have to add an arm at the deadline. Too many rookies and too many unproven guys in the bullpen to confidently think they will turn it around.
CB June 2nd, 2009 at 12:53 pm
“but i dunno if this Mo-scan makes Joba’s velocity last night more questionable?”

Forget the Yes gun. It’s been off all season.

But the Pitch F/X velocity you get on game day is very accurate.

Joba’s average velocity last night was 94 and he was hitting 97 regularly including in the 8th inning. Mo was 92-94.

Those are very accurate velocities.
Brandon ? Is Berroa really starting today ???? June 2nd, 2009 at 12:57 pm
“Veras isn’t reliable at all. In fact, if they DFA’ed him tomorrow and called up Melancon, allowing him to work his way into the mix, they would be better off. Coke and Robertson are rookies and they will have up and down performances. You can’t put them in the “reliable” catagory.”

It’s laughable to me why they haven’t DFA’d Veras yet. It really is

As for Soria can anyone imagine Soria to Mo ? I jizzed
Rishi June 2nd, 2009 at 12:57 pm
follow up to the all-decade team:

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/swe.....osada.html
GET REAL June 2nd, 2009 at 12:57 pm
Brandon, you are kidding yourself if you think Joba was throwing 98. I saw the gun reading 98 on YES but that doesn’t mean it was right. Guy was throwing 90 in his last outting and all of a sudden he’s throwing 98? Doesn’t make much sense.
Brandon ? Is Berroa really starting today ???? June 2nd, 2009 at 12:58 pm
Another possible get could be Rafael Betancourt now b/c of the inj.
vin June 2nd, 2009 at 12:58 pm
Can someone give me a little more insight into the Eastern League? Is it more of a hitters’ league, or pitchers’ league? Any particular reason why McAllister has allowed 6 unearned runs? Bad fields or is it the guys behind him?

Just looking at his baseballcube page, seems like he is more of a control guy who doesn’t get many K’s, but manages to not give up a lot of hits at the same time. Seems like hsi stats are somewhat contradictary (is that a word?).
SJ44 June 2nd, 2009 at 12:59 pm
The Royals have no interest in trading Soria. They could contend for that division and he’s a big part of their team.

He’s also had shoulder problems all year. I don’t see him on the market any time soon.
m June 2nd, 2009 at 12:59 pm
Good stuff this morning, guys.

WHY,

The bullpen IS better. But, by no stretch of the imagination, is this bullpen good or trustworthy.

I loved our bullpen in the winter. But Coke has come back to earth. And more disturbing than anything, he has an attitude that is not conducive to success. No accountability. Veras, sigh, such a nice kid. The only 2 guys I trust right now are Mo and Aceves. And Aceves shouldn’t even be in the bullpen, he’s got the ability to give a long, quality start with pitch count to spare every time out.

People who know me hear understand that I’m patient to a fault with this team and its players, but that bullpen is just not cutting it. We’re waiting on a Bruney, who more likely than not won’t finish the year. And if and when we get Marte back, he’s not anything to write home about.

So, I admire your support of the pen, I can’t say I feel as confident as you!
MaineYankee June 2nd, 2009 at 1:00 pm
SJ44

Besides Coke and Robertson being young so they are still learning. Weren’t they both starters so they are learning to be RP’s?
DB - (officially panicked 5/13/09) June 2nd, 2009 at 1:00 pm
Get Real, he started off the game at 93 to 94 and hit 97 a few times. The YES gun is awful, but Gameday seems to be pretty accurate.
CB June 2nd, 2009 at 1:00 pm
“if the Yanks get X number of innings from their starters, then the BP would logically be improved. ”

33. Coming into this season I thought the most important number for the yankees was 33 – they needed to get 33 innings from their starters each time through the rotation.

With this winning streak I think that’s what they’ve been doing.
SJ44 June 2nd, 2009 at 1:01 pm
Sure it makes sense. Velocity is tied to mechanics. Joba’s mechanics were all messed up in his last start.

Last night, his mechanics were as good as they have been all year.

Most scouts at the game had him between 94-98 most of the night.

He had two pitches clocked at 97 and one at 96 in the 8th inning.

His velocity was up all night.
rmel June 2nd, 2009 at 1:01 pm
“I agree that getting Street would probably mean having to give up McAllister.

Given that he’s got the potential to be a middle of the rotation horse, I think that is too steep of a price.”

Don’t think it would take Z-Mac….Remember Street is making 4.5 million this year and still has one more year of arbitration….Based on what the Yanks gave the Pirates last year for Nady/Marte…. I would think a combo of George Kontos, Wilkin De La Rosa, Mike Dunn, Christian Garcia should get it done….Its a salary dump for a team that is 14 games out and going nowhere
Patrick June 2nd, 2009 at 1:01 pm
GET REAL –

Joba was throwing 97 in the 8th inning according to several sources.
DB - (officially panicked 5/13/09) June 2nd, 2009 at 1:03 pm
What’s to learn being a relief pitcher? Throw strikes should be all there is to it.
SJ44 June 2nd, 2009 at 1:03 pm
Vinc,

The Eastern League is considered a pitchers league because most of the ballparks are set up in ways that the ball doesn’t carry very well. Bigger parks, some of the infields aren’t in good shape (which lead to errors) and the weather, cold the first 2-3 months of the year, make it tough to hit balls out of those ballparks.

Also, most teams put their best pitching prospects in AA earlier and earlier, which makes the pitching much more challenging for young hitters.
five iron from fenway June 2nd, 2009 at 1:04 pm
Maine – Coke yes, Robertson no.
If I recall correctly Robertson was a big time closer at a college program. Coke was a mediocre starting pitching prospect until he gained velocity last year after some mechanical tweakings.
Stuckey June 2nd, 2009 at 1:04 pm
Eastern league is a pitchers league with big parks, particularly trenton …or so I hear.
Rishi June 2nd, 2009 at 1:04 pm
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....=290601105

“Chamberlain (3-1) retired the first 11 batters before Victor Martinez’s home run in the fourth. He allowed four hits, walked two and struck out five. He showed great velocity, still hitting 97 mph on the radar gun in the eighth.”

Unless your eye is better…
vin June 2nd, 2009 at 1:04 pm
“GET REAL –

Joba was throwing 97 in the 8th inning according to several sources.
”

Exactly. And more to the point, just watch the games. Notice how many swings-and misses he got with the FB. Or how many guys were late on it. Even when the batters didn’t swing, I was able to visually notice that the FB was much better than his last start.
SJ44 June 2nd, 2009 at 1:05 pm
I think they can make a deal for Street and not involve McAllister.

With the way Street is pitching this year, he’s an $8 million dollar guy in arbitration next year. I can’t see the Rockies going there. Especially since Street can be a FA at the end of next year.
Kevin in the 908 June 2nd, 2009 at 1:06 pm
Mike’d Up, Mike’d Up, Talking 8th inning and Joba
jennifer June 2nd, 2009 at 1:06 pm
Already ripping the line up he faced.
Jon Ringland June 2nd, 2009 at 1:06 pm
The Francessa-haters must be gushing with excitement right about now
Brandon ? Is Berroa really starting today ???? June 2nd, 2009 at 1:07 pm
“The Royals have no interest in trading Soria. They could contend for that division and he’s a big part of their team.”

I know but wouldn’t it be beautiful if they traded him to us.

“He’s also had shoulder problems all year. I don’t see him on the market any time soon.”

If he would be on the market, would you ?

LOL Fatcessa : “anyway Joba gets to the 8th inning I am a fan of”
bru June 2nd, 2009 at 1:07 pm
get ready here comes francessa.

joba probably right off the bat.

here we go.i was right
Patrick June 2nd, 2009 at 1:07 pm
The bullpen as it stands now:

Rivera – still amazing
Aceves – dependable, can pitch 1-5 innings per outing
Coke – Very inconsistent but potential to be good
Robertson – Same as Coke
Veras – Awful
Tomko – AAAA starter but could be okay in the bullpen
Wang – Long reliever, will be in the rotation soon
Melancon – Should be in the majors

After Hughes’ next start they should send him to AAA, call up Melancon, move Wang to the bullpen. DFA Veras when Bruney gets back (hopefully in a few weeks). DFA Tomko when Marte returns (who knows when that will be).

Then you end up with a pitching staff of:

Sabathia
Burnett
Pettitte
Wang
Chamberlain

Rivera
Aceves
Bruney
Coke
Marte
Robertson
Melancon

After all that, assess the bullpen and maybe make a trade.
86w183 June 2nd, 2009 at 1:08 pm
The day they get rid of the radar guns in baseball will be a wonderful day. Unless there is standardization it’s completely unreliable, and even if it is reliable it’s absurdly overrated.

As for Huston Street… I agree with SJ completely that he is an ideal get. I also doubt Kontos, Miranda and a low level guy gets it done and McAllister is someone I don’t want to move.

Maybe Kontos, Miranda and a risk/reward guy in the Brackman, Betances, Dunne, Garcia, De la Rosa mold?

Get the idea I think Huston Street would be a great addition?
bru June 2nd, 2009 at 1:08 pm
now he is saying he is ok with joba starting as long as he finishes 8 innings
jennifer June 2nd, 2009 at 1:08 pm
Oh we have a leg up for a few days. LOL What a schmuck.
CB June 2nd, 2009 at 1:08 pm
“Its a salary dump for a team that is 14 games out and going nowhere”

It would be, but the issue in what it will cost in talent is that Street will be auctioned off to the highest bidder.

There will be a lot competition for him – by mid season he’ll only be due say 2.5M or so. Most teams will be able to absorb that.

There will be a lot of offers for Street.
vin June 2nd, 2009 at 1:08 pm
Thanks SJ and Stuckey.

It seems as though McAllister is pitching the way you would expect a quality SP prospect to pitch there. He’s more than holding his own (player of the week last week I believe) as a 21 year old. Should be interesting to see where he finishes the year.
S.A.--Let's get ready to rumble! June 2nd, 2009 at 1:08 pm
LOL @ Francesa
Harley June 2nd, 2009 at 1:08 pm
Jon, actually that’s inaccurate. Francesa has made it very clear. He thinks Joba would be a good starter, but a great reliever. The team’s needs are only a part of that.

His spin today was pretty funny. Basically, he’s happy if Joba is pitching the eighth inning. If he has to pitch the first seven to get there? Okay with him.

Ha ha.
jennifer June 2nd, 2009 at 1:09 pm
What pitcher is held to the standard of having to pitch 8 innings? Only one Joba.
E-gawa June 2nd, 2009 at 1:09 pm
“GET REAL –

Joba was throwing 97 in the 8th inning according to several sources.”

I believed the gun until I heard Mo was around the same.. I think the gun was off.
Jordan June 2nd, 2009 at 1:09 pm
You know its bad when Chris Russo can’t stand you, but Mike just embarrasses himself talking as a Yankees fan about his favorite team.

“If Joba is standing in the eigth inning, any way he gets there, you have to be a happy man.”

Then he moves onto the Mets and JJ Putz, because he knows he has little to no evidence to support his cause.
Stuckey June 2nd, 2009 at 1:09 pm
The reason Veras hasn’t been released because it compromises the Yankees “net”.

It’s still early and the Yanks are doing okay. If Veras figures it out, their bullpen options are deeper. Releasing Veras and bringing up Melancon means for one you’re depending on him being effective, but more importantly if someone gets hurt of blows up, then they have to dig deeper into the farm system, where there might not be that many options.

They’ve won 15 of 19 and they’re getting great starting pitcher and have the surest thing in baseball at the end. They can afford to spot him and try to get him on the right track.

Let him go and their depth IS negatively impacted. There is no guarentee Kontos (or even Melancon for that matter) is going to be more effective.
Joe Monte June 2nd, 2009 at 1:10 pm
You have to love Big Pompous saying he’s fine w/ joba starting if he gets to the 8th inning and hands the ball to Mo as a starter…so, 7 innings won’t be enough in his eyes? Lovely.
Rishi June 2nd, 2009 at 1:10 pm
Kyle(Rhode Island): Sure it was against Cleveland, but will last night finally shut the Joba Bullpen people up? He was throwing 97 in the 8th inning! Do people just not have a clue?

Rob Neyer: Here’s what it’s going to take: a sub-4.00 ERA and at least six innings per start. He does that, and the debate will (mostly) die.
Patrick June 2nd, 2009 at 1:10 pm
“What pitcher is held to the standard of having to pitch 8 innings? Only one Joba.”

It really is absurd
MaineYankee June 2nd, 2009 at 1:10 pm
Portland’s park isn’t a real big park. One cool thing they did was they have a Green Monster in left. Nice touch really.
GET REAL June 2nd, 2009 at 1:10 pm
You guys can quote unknown sources and scouts all you want but there is no way he hit 98 last night. The other guy had it right, the YES Network gun is awful. Thanks for everyone’s input, I just don’t believe it.
Rishi June 2nd, 2009 at 1:10 pm
Arin (Bakersfield, CA): Rob, what do you think the Yankees’ plans should be for Phil Hughes? Should he continue getting starts while CMW accrues inning in the ‘pen? Would a true flip-flop be in order or would it make sense to send Hughes back down to AAA?

Rob Neyer: As I’ve now written at least a few times, if there’s really no room in the rotation for Hughes, he should be given a shot in the bullpen. I do not think it will hurt his future as a starter, and there’s no reason he can’t step back into the rotation if necessary. It’s only been done that way for about 100 years.
jennifer June 2nd, 2009 at 1:11 pm
So Johan only has to go 7 but Jobber has to go 8. Okay diet coke.
bru June 2nd, 2009 at 1:12 pm
joba through 7 innings is just fine.

get a good 8th inning pitcher then a closer & it is neat & tidy.
but when a starter only goes 5 or 6 innings it gets a little crazy.
Patrick June 2nd, 2009 at 1:12 pm
“I believed the gun until I heard Mo was around the same.. I think the gun was off.”

I’m not talking about the stadium or YES gun. Go look at MLB gameday or Pitch F/X
Jon Ringland June 2nd, 2009 at 1:12 pm
“You guys can quote unknown sources and scouts all you want but there is no way he hit 98 last night. The other guy had it right, the YES Network gun is awful. Thanks for everyone’s input, I just don’t believe it.”

The ESPN gun, too, had him at 98 several times.
Rishi June 2nd, 2009 at 1:12 pm
Bobby (NY): Im from NY and clearly bias – but, I had this talk recently with a Red Sox fan. I’m pretty convinced that Posada is absolutely underrated and while he won’t be a HOF player, he will certainly have some sort of a case when he is done. Thoughts?

Rob Neyer: Right now he’s got about 1400 hits, which just isn’t enough (and of course I’m using hits as shorthand for career impact, generally). I think he’s got Hall of Fame talent, but it’s just not been on the field enough. If he can somehow hang around and play well for another four or five years … but that’s not going to happen.
S.A.--Let's get ready to rumble! June 2nd, 2009 at 1:12 pm
All about Putz now
Patrick June 2nd, 2009 at 1:12 pm
You’re right GET REAL he wasn’t hitting 98, he was hitting 97. You are a moron
CB June 2nd, 2009 at 1:13 pm
“I think they can make a deal for Street and not involve McAllister.”

SJ,

You think so? I can see the Rockies wanting no part of him and his salary for all of this season nevermind arb in the off season.

But there will be at least 7-8 teams that are going to be interested in him.

I think Colorado will ask for McCallister or Betances.

I don’t like the idea of trading McCallister for Street. If a kontos plus deal could do it or kontos, robertson plus that would be fine.

At the trade deadline I could see a lot of bidding on street driving up his price.

I think they’ll want at least one good starting prospect back for him and I’d have to think in that park they’d prefer a ground ball pitcher like McCallister.
GET REAL June 2nd, 2009 at 1:13 pm
E-gawa…I thought the same thing. At least someone else was watching last night…
Rishi June 2nd, 2009 at 1:14 pm
btw, “GET REAL”, I sent a link w/ quote from espn.com, you may not like them, but they are not annonymous
Carl June 2nd, 2009 at 1:14 pm
who cares Joba was good!
jennifer June 2nd, 2009 at 1:14 pm
Why doesn’t he realize that Brian came back too early from his injury. He was still having pain when he came back. That is why he went on the dl. It isn’t cause he re injured himself!
Rishi June 2nd, 2009 at 1:14 pm
Seymour, Brooklyn: Who is the best team in the AL right now? I think the Yankee run differential is misleading because of the 22-4 destruction at the hands of the Indians in the 2nd week of the season…

Rob Neyer: I think the Yankees are the best team, which is interesting to me only because I thought they were the best team in March, too.
bru June 2nd, 2009 at 1:14 pm
i would worry that if hughes goes to the pen he would not use & or develope all of his pitches like he is doing in the starting rotation.
SJ44 June 2nd, 2009 at 1:15 pm
You are wrong. He did hit 98 last night and did it on more once. Its not the YES gun.

Its the ESPN gun, scouts guns, pitch F/X guns. Geez, stop living in denial.

The guy was throwing 97 in the 8th inning! His 100th pitch was 96 MPH.

What more do you want?
Rishi June 2nd, 2009 at 1:15 pm
Jeff (NY, NY): If the Yankees ever decided to trade CMW do you think that they could get a Haren like haul in return?

Rob Neyer: No way. And They won’t trade him, anyway; they like having six starters.

——————————————————————————–
Nick (Miami, FL): Is the rest of the country finally starting to realize that Ellsbury is nothing more than a 4th outfielder?

Rob Neyer: Considering what he can give you with the glove and the wheels, he’s not a bad player for his salary. Still waiting to see the future star, though…
Rishi June 2nd, 2009 at 1:16 pm
SJ44
June 2nd, 2009 at 1:15 pm
You are wrong. He did hit 98 last night and did it on more once. Its not the YES gun.

Its the ESPN gun, scouts guns, pitch F/X guns. Geez, stop living in denial.

The guy was throwing 97 in the 8th inning! His 100th pitch was 96 MPH.

What more do you want?
*~*~*~*~*~

For people to blindly agree he’s right…
vb03 - OPPC (Other Pitcher's Personal Catcher) June 2nd, 2009 at 1:18 pm
“His spin today was pretty funny. Basically, he’s happy if Joba is pitching the eighth inning. If he has to pitch the first seven to get there? Okay with him.”

That’s pretty hilarious. Even Roy Halladay doesn’t ALWAYS reach the 8th inning, and he’s the best pitcher in the AL.
DB - (officially panicked 5/13/09) June 2nd, 2009 at 1:18 pm
E-Gawa, the reading was from Gameday (check for yourself) not the YES gun. That gun is very erratic
S.A.--Let's get ready to rumble! June 2nd, 2009 at 1:18 pm
Stop talking about the Mets flu Francesa. Some of us are trying to eat
S.A.--Let's get ready to rumble! June 2nd, 2009 at 1:19 pm
GET REAL June 2nd, 2009 at 1:10 pm

You guys can quote unknown sources and scouts all you want but there is no way he hit 98 last night. The other guy had it right, the YES Network gun is awful. Thanks for everyone’s input, I just don’t believe it.

=============================

Seriously, get real.
i-know-nothing June 2nd, 2009 at 1:19 pm
Good to see that Joba’s velocity was up yesterday.
I love watching him start/pitch whatever..

I too agree he would be wasted starter talent in the BP… but CRYING OUT LOUD… What are we going to do with the BP, what are our options, who are we going to get??

We absolutely HAVE to do something.
SJ44 June 2nd, 2009 at 1:21 pm
CB,

I think there are a couple of advantages the Yankees have for Street.

One is Juan Miranda.

The Rockies love Miranda. They wanted to sign him when he emigrated from Cuba. He would rake in that ballpark.

Kontos, Betances, Brackman (who probably won’t be dealt), and Garcia are impact arms the Rockies don’t have in their organization. Two of those 4, plus Miranda, is a pretty solid offer for Street.

Especially because he will likely be an 8 million dollar arbitration guy next year.

That’s going to play into the price for him because smaller market teams (like Tampa Bay) would be less likely to give up a lot of minor league talent for him due to the arbitration number.

He will have quite a few suitors. I do think the Yankees have the assets to make a play for him.

The will? Too early to say right now.
DB - (officially panicked 5/13/09) June 2nd, 2009 at 1:23 pm
Get Real, you obviously never heard of GameDay

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/gameday.....de=gameday

Check for yourself
86w183 June 2nd, 2009 at 1:24 pm
I’d do Kontos, Miranda and Betances for Street.

Keep in mind Street won’t be 26 until August and was 21-12, 2.88, 94 saves with Oakland. His whip was 1.071 and his K/W ratio was 3.5/1.
Patrick June 2nd, 2009 at 1:24 pm
Interesting insight about Miranda.

I’m an eternal optimist so I still haven’t lost hope on the bullpen. I really do think that Melancon will be a stud THIS YEAR and that Marte/Bruney will come back strong. That being said, Street would be a great acquisition.
CB June 2nd, 2009 at 1:25 pm
“Two of those 4, plus Miranda, is a pretty solid offer for Street.”

I agree that if the Yankees put Betances on the table that would be a very good offer for the Rockies. I do think it would take Betances or McCallister as the key player.

Good to know they like Miranda. He’s a guy the team will need to trade at some point soon. Doing so for a pull pen arm would be ideal.

If they could get street for Miranda, Kontos and Garcia I’d do that very quickly. I don’t know how other teams see Garcia given his injury history.

But that wold be a deal they should do.
DT June 2nd, 2009 at 1:25 pm
OT –

Hey GB – Did you write this? It sounds a lot like you.

http://office-humour.co.uk/item/9052/
vin June 2nd, 2009 at 1:26 pm
“Rob Neyer: As I’ve now written at least a few times, if there’s really no room in the rotation for Hughes, he should be given a shot in the bullpen. I do not think it will hurt his future as a starter, and there’s no reason he can’t step back into the rotation if necessary. It’s only been done that way for about 100 years.”

Uh oh, Neyer and I agree… well maybe I’ll have to re-think my position yet again.
... June 2nd, 2009 at 1:26 pm
“What more do you want?”

Apparently the answer to that would be: Strasburg?
S.o.S. June 2nd, 2009 at 1:28 pm
Good morning fellas. So im scimming through the comments and all i see is NO HE DIDNT, YES HE DID. Who cares if Joba was hitting 98. He went 8 innings and was efficient all game. Hell, Mussina was going 7 throwing 89 mile an hour heaters.

SJ44,
I asked you before the season started, who in the minors(pitchers) would make the biggest future impact and i believe you said McCalister. Do you still feel the same way? Anyone else have a different or same choice?
DB - (officially panicked 5/13/09) June 2nd, 2009 at 1:29 pm
Thats right vin, you put your 5 best pitchers in the starting rotation then fill out the rest in the BP. As teams have done for the past 100 years. Joba >>> Hughes. I don’t think anyone can argue with that.
DB - (officially panicked 5/13/09) June 2nd, 2009 at 1:31 pm
S.O.S, I really like Brackman if he could get all his arms and legs going in the right direction consistently.
Patrick June 2nd, 2009 at 1:32 pm
Hughes in the bullpen is a bad idea. He’s missed the better part of two seasons in a row due to injury. He really needs to be starting for the entire 2009 season whether that is in AAA or MLB.
SJ44 June 2nd, 2009 at 1:32 pm
McAllister is the guy SOS. I think he’s going to be a very good starting pitcher in the majors. Perhaps as soon as August 2010.

Very talented kid who really understands the art of pitching.

His father was a longtime scout for the D’backs and he spent a lot of his youth being tutored by Johnson and Schilling.

I really like him and have since the first time I saw him pitch in Charleston.

Not surprised at all at his success.

If I had to trade one of them, I’d deal Betances before McAllister. That’s how highly I think of the kid.
JT June 2nd, 2009 at 1:33 pm
SJ44,

There is no way in hell Cashman is trading 3 prospects for an 8M 2010 bullpen arm with Mariano @ 15M & Marte @ 4M.
vin June 2nd, 2009 at 1:33 pm
“S.O.S, I really like Brackman if he could get all his arms and legs going in the right direction consistently.”

Same can be said of Jose Veras.
Brandon ? Is Berroa really starting today ???? June 2nd, 2009 at 1:33 pm
How about

Romine, McCallister, Miranda, Coke or * cough *(Wang) for Joakim Soria…
SJ44 June 2nd, 2009 at 1:34 pm
There is no way I’d put Hughes in the bullpen. That’s not a solution.

I’d send him back to Scranton so he could pitch regularly before I’d put him in the bullpen.
Brandon ? Is Berroa really starting today ???? June 2nd, 2009 at 1:34 pm
“If I had to trade one of them, I’d deal Betances before McAllister. That’s how highly I think of the kid.”

And Betances is near untradeable..he could be like Neftali Feliz is for Texas…
Patrick June 2nd, 2009 at 1:35 pm
SJ44

McAllister vs Betances .. that’s a tough choice. McAllister is obviously much more advanced but supposedly Betances has a higher ceiling. I think I agree with you though, I’d keep McAllister over Betances.

Question for all, would now be a good time to trade Andrew Brackman? Sure he has great stuff but he’s 23 and struggling in low-A. He’ll probably be in Charleston for the entire season, then another full season in Tampa and another in Trenton. He could be 26 by the time he’s in AAA. I’d consider trading him now while his value is still high.
vin June 2nd, 2009 at 1:35 pm
“Hughes in the bullpen is a bad idea. He’s missed the better part of two seasons in a row due to injury. He really needs to be starting for the entire 2009 season whether that is in AAA or MLB.”

I definitely understand that part of the argument, but I think there’s tremendous value in learning how to get ML hitters out. If used properly, he could reach his IP limit – think Ramiro Mendoza – spot starter, 2-3 IP out of the pen twice a week.
rconn23 June 2nd, 2009 at 1:36 pm
SJ44,

That’s really interesting info about Miranda and the Rockies. I wouldn’t have guessed they would see him as so appealing.

Betances is an arm I think the Yankees wouldn’t have a problem moving. He has a high-ceiling, but he’s light years away from the majors.

McAllister, on the other hand, has a lower ceiling, but is much more polished and seems like he could be fast tracked to the majors.
DB - (officially panicked 5/13/09) June 2nd, 2009 at 1:36 pm
Brandon, that sounds like half the farm for a guy with a suspect shoulder
Trevor June 2nd, 2009 at 1:36 pm
Looks good to me:

Rivera
Street
Bruney
Melancon
Coke
Marte
Aceves
Hughes STAYS IN THE PICTURE!! June 2nd, 2009 at 1:37 pm
Then you end up with a pitching staff of:

Sabathia
Burnett
Pettitte
Wang
Chamberlain

Rivera
Aceves
Bruney
Coke
Marte
Robertson
Melancon

After all that, assess the bullpen and maybe make a trade.

—————

Um…Ya don’t have Bruney.

Phil Coke is sporting an ERA and WHIP that could make Aaron Heilman blush.

Melancon is not ready.

Tomko is a long man at best nothing more he might as well be Kei Igawa.

Veras = Automatic Loss

Marte has been an utter bust to date…

So that leaves Robertson (who I too like) and of course the second coming of Ramiro Mendoza aka Mexican Gansta ‘Aceves.

9th Inning – Mo

8th Inning – (Vancant)

Ramiro Mendoza – Acevas (Mendoza Clone)

Long Man – Tomko

Lefty Specialist who doesn’t give up HRs to LEFTYS -
(Vacant)

Lefty “Specialist who does – Coke

Robertson

Bruney (When and if he returns)

Marte (When and if he returns AND DOESN’T SUCK)

Melancon (If he can ever look like the guy we’ve read about for 2+ years and not a deer in the headlights kid with no guts)
SJ44 June 2nd, 2009 at 1:37 pm
If Cashman has a chance to get Huston Street, he’s trading him.

He’s not going to have Damaso Marte’s salary stand in the way of fixing his bullpen. That’s NEVER been the Yankee way.

They have a ton of money coming off the books again in the off-season.

If they can get him, they will give it their best shot and money isn’t going to stand in the way of it.
86w183 June 2nd, 2009 at 1:38 pm
I don’t think Kontos or Miranda is a high level prospect. The key to player development is like the Kenny Rogers song the Gambler…. you’ve got to know when to hold ‘em; know when to fold ‘em.

Yanks were smart to hold on to Hughes, Joba, Coke, Robertson etc…. you can’t expect all your prospects to make the big club, so you have to move the right guys at the right time.

I agree with SJ, McAllister is too high a price and I’d rather hold on to Dunn and Kroenke than Kontos and Betances

Street is the best reliever likely to be available and he isn’t going to come cheap.
Clark June 2nd, 2009 at 1:38 pm
Where do the Rockies play Miranda?

Don’t they have Helton?
rmel June 2nd, 2009 at 1:38 pm
“I’d do Kontos, Miranda and Betances for Street.”

i believe that would get it done…..unless other team gives up a whole lot more….I don’t think the Rays want to add payroll….the team i worry about is the tigers….but i think we have a better farm system
rconn23 June 2nd, 2009 at 1:39 pm
Betances is not untradebale. Not at all.

He has a high ceiling, and like most young, talented pitchers, just has to get over his wildness and harness his stuff.

A lot of teams would value him, even though he’s not major league ready.
Patrick June 2nd, 2009 at 1:39 pm
Hughes STAYS IN THE PICTURE!! -

Read -> Comprehend -> Post

I explain the reasoning behind my “finished product” pitching staff. Re-read what I say before you make stupid posts.
Cash is King June 2nd, 2009 at 1:39 pm
Listen, if the Hughes, Joba and Wang keep pitching well in which Wang is ready to join the rotation, sooner or later, you have to move Hughes and Joba to the bullpen sometime during the season due to their innings limit of 150-160 innings. IMO, if you move Hughes to the bullpen sometime late in June by replacing him with Wang, you can limit his innings and then have him ready to take Joba’s place in the rotation come September in order for Joba to reach his innings limit. This way, you reach both pitchers innings limit, give them valuable experience as ML starters so that they’re be prepared to pitch 180 or so innings next season and strengthen your bullpen for the last 90-100 games of this season.
vin June 2nd, 2009 at 1:40 pm
“If Cashman has a chance to get Huston Street, he’s trading him.

He’s not going to have Damaso Marte’s salary stand in the way of fixing his bullpen. That’s NEVER been the Yankee way.
”

Not to mention the fact that Street could be Mo’s eventual replacement.
S.o.S. June 2nd, 2009 at 1:40 pm
lol vin. In that case, just give the rockies Veras and have them work some magic on him.

SJ, it sounds like hes the real deal. Cant wait to get a glimps of him.

It seems like Hughes is not confident throwing all his pitches. His last start, i think he was consistantly throwing the fastball and cutter/slider cant remember which one. I think i saw roughly 3 curve balls thrown all day. If he’s down to two pitches that hes confident in throwing. Wouldnt it make sense to have him finish the season off in the pen. Work on his pitches in the off season and comeback as a starter this up coming year?

What do you guys think of trading Aceves for bullpen help? His value should be high right now the way hes been pitching.
Betsy June 2nd, 2009 at 1:40 pm
It’s a thin line the Yankees walk every year – they want to win, but they also want to develop with an eye towards the future They really, really need to improve the pen because it’s just not good and because this is a very good team with a great shot at winning it all. However, would you give up McAllister and a huge part of your future for a chance (and that’s all it would be, a chance – there are no guarantees) to win the WS? I’m not familiar with this kid, but boy – if the raves our true, he’d make an awfully nice match to go with Phil and Joba. I wouldn’t, but then ask me on a night when the Yanks take a lead in the 8th and Coke/Robertson/Melancon blow it, lol….those are gut-wrenching losses. I do think Bruney (IF he can stay healthy when he returns, which is a big IF) and Marte (who will be healthy when he returns) will help, but I get scared whenever they go to the pen – that’s not good. I don’t really feel comfortable unless they have a big lead (and even then Veras usually makes things hairy)…..
Brandon ? Is Berroa really starting today ???? June 2nd, 2009 at 1:41 pm
“I’d do Kontos, Miranda and Betances for Street.”

No no no no no…Soria, Brian Wilson, Andrew Bailey not Street.
SJ44 June 2nd, 2009 at 1:41 pm
Betances is not off limits on the trade market. If they can get an all star calibur player for him, they would deal him.

Depending on how Kyle Higatosha progresses in short season ball, Romine could also be in play. Montero is off limits and Cervelli certainly has shown he has the chance to be the backup catcher in 2010.

If the Yankees were to put Romine on the market, that would definitely raise their profile on any proposed deals because there is a shortage of catching in the marketplace.

Like I’ve said all along, the Yankees have the assets to make just about any deal they want. Its a question of whether they want to use them.
Brandon ? Is Berroa really starting today ???? June 2nd, 2009 at 1:42 pm
“He has a high ceiling, and like most young, talented pitchers, just has to get over his wildness and harness his stuff.

A lot of teams would value him, even though he’s not major league ready.”

Just like Atl did w/ Feliz all over again.
GlenAllen Hill's Helment Don't Fit June 2nd, 2009 at 1:42 pm
Jeremy Bleich has had a couple rough outings recently.

Is he still considered a “prospect” in this organization?

Hard to get a read on him.
Patrick June 2nd, 2009 at 1:43 pm
I don’t think I’d trade Romine. Considering that Montero very well could be moved from catcher Romine could be our best catching prospect. I know you have to give up quality to get quality but I wouldn’t touch Romine.
Cash is King June 2nd, 2009 at 1:44 pm
“Jeremy Bleich has had a couple rough outings recently.

Is he still considered a “prospect” in this organization?

Hard to get a read on him.”

Are you serious?
five iron from fenway June 2nd, 2009 at 1:45 pm
All this talk for Street but hasn’t he had a pretty significant injury history?
Why would you give up four prospects including several with very high upside (Betances, Garcia etc) for a relief pitcher?
I think first Bruney’s arm would have to fall off, then Marte’s arm amputated, Coke doesn’t progress, Melancon flames out, Robertson can’t harness his control, Kontos can’t make the conversion to starter, Garcia gets injured again, etc before the Yankees trade big time prospects for a relief pitcher.
JT June 2nd, 2009 at 1:45 pm
SJ44,

Yea I know about the money coming off the books next year (pettitte -12M with incentives, nady -6.5M, molina -2M, matsui -13M and Damon returning -4M to -6M cheaper), I just can’t see him coughing up 3 good prospects for a reliever and ending up with a pen costing 27M+ in 2010.
Al June 2nd, 2009 at 1:45 pm
Our ONLY weakness is the bullpen. It must be addressed.

If you have to give up a guy like Betances to get Street, you do it.

Nobody is trading us a good reliever for Igawa, Veras, and Shelly Duncan. You have to give something to get something.
SJ44 June 2nd, 2009 at 1:45 pm
David Robertson is another guy that could be included in any deal.

If the Yankees put Robertson, Kontos and Miranda or Romine on the table for Street, that’s a pretty good offer to the Rockies.

The Rockies are very interested in my nephew because they don’t have any catching in their system. Putting Romine on the table would certainly get their attention.

The Yankees bullpen would then be: Mo, Street, Bruney, Marte, Melancon, Aceves and (cough, cough) Veras.

If they got Street, Robertson is expendable due to the Melancon and the fact that Street is still a young guy.

Just some food for thought.
vin June 2nd, 2009 at 1:45 pm
“What do you guys think of trading Aceves for bullpen help? His value should be high right now the way hes been pitching.”

Sounds like the definition of “Robbing Peter to pay Paul.” I think Aceves’ best role is as middle-inning long man. I don’t think he has the stuff to turn a lineup over 2 or 3 times, but he has the rubber arm needed to go that length. His stuff doesn’t translate to 8th inning, high-pressure, holy-crap we need a strikeout either.

Let him do his thing and solidify the 5-7th innings and be happy he’s on our team.
Betsy June 2nd, 2009 at 1:46 pm
Didn’t Phil use all his pitches against Texas? I also think it was cold in Cleveland and and Phil was blowing his hands — I missed the game, but perhaps he just didn’t have a feel of the curve for that one game. I hate the idea of putting him in the pen, unless it’s for the post-season where that’s the only place for him. I prefer he stay up here and learn to get ML hitters out as I think he’ll be the better for it, but for his own future, Phil has to go down to AAA.
Coach6423 June 2nd, 2009 at 1:46 pm
Melancon (If he can ever look like the guy we’ve read about for 2+ years and not a deer in the headlights kid with no guts)

You mean like his 1st ML outing in Boston where he got out of a Bases Loaded no out jam with no runs. Oh i forgot, giving up one hit in your 1st week in the bigs makes you gutless.
GreenBeret7 June 2nd, 2009 at 1:47 pm
Patrick
June 2nd, 2009 at 1:35 pm
SJ44

McAllister vs Betances .. that’s a tough choice. McAllister is obviously much more advanced but supposedly Betances has a higher ceiling. I think I agree with you though, I’d keep McAllister over Betances.

Question for all, would now be a good time to trade Andrew Brackman? Sure he has great stuff but he’s 23 and struggling in low-A. He’ll probably be in Charleston for the entire season, then another full season in Tampa and another in Trenton. He could be 26 by the time he’s in AAA. I’d consider trading him now while his value is still high.

————————————————————

Brackman has had one bad game, two starts ago. He’s not struggling. He has one issue that needs to be fixed….pickoffs and fielding. He has 6 errors. Struggling….no.

http://web.minorleaguebaseball.....pid=457581
Yank1 June 2nd, 2009 at 1:47 pm
I’d trade Brackman before I trade Betances
GlenAllen Hill's Helmet Don't Fit June 2nd, 2009 at 1:48 pm
Cash is King –

I say something wrong?

He was a 1st round pick, was he not, in 2008?

Thought he was a “crafty”, intelligent lefty that the org was impressed with…?
five iron from fenway June 2nd, 2009 at 1:48 pm
Patrick – Agreed 100%! Romine is a very good defensive catcher who is also putting up very good offensive numbers this year. He in fact may be the one promoted to AA soon.
The Yankees have a lot of catching and may be on to some more in the IFA market this July.
I know you have to give up quality to get quality, but I don’t know if an oft-injured reliever is where I would expend the bullets.
vin June 2nd, 2009 at 1:48 pm
“Nobody is trading us a good reliever for Igawa, Veras, and Shelly Duncan. You have to give something to get something.”

There goes my plan for how Cashman can get Broxton.
Patrick June 2nd, 2009 at 1:48 pm
Wouldn’t you rather have Coke in your bullpen SJ?

Kontos, Robertson, Romine/Miranda is way too much to give up IMO. Street is an above average reliever but nothing too special. I want him but I’m not willing to give up Romine.
Trevor June 2nd, 2009 at 1:49 pm
If the Yankees ever think about trading Wang in the future, McAllister could be guy who replaces him. So yeah I would hold on to him.
He could also be the 6th man next year for depth. I don’t expect Pettitte back next year.
Don June 2nd, 2009 at 1:50 pm
The only players who should be off-limits are Hughes, Jackson, Montero.

If you start making every single high-ceiling Low A teenager off limits and every single above average prospect in AA or above, then what are your trade chips?
DB - (officially panicked 5/13/09) June 2nd, 2009 at 1:51 pm
vin
June 2nd, 2009 at 1:33 pm
“S.O.S, I really like Brackman if he could get all his arms and legs going in the right direction consistently.”

Same can be said of Jose Veras.

__ ____ ___

Don’t quite get the comparison 6’10″ and 24 yo to 6’5″ and 29. Not to mention Brackman is in his first full year of professional ball.
IrishCarBomb June 2nd, 2009 at 1:51 pm
Start wang thursday? he hasn’t been stressed out. He has a chance to be out of the game by the 5th inning which would get into the bullpen WAY too early.
86w183 June 2nd, 2009 at 1:51 pm
The key to moving Romine, as SJ pointed out would be the development of Higatosha and it’s too early to assess that.

He was just pointing out the Yankees have the assets to put together really nice packages to get qhat they lack. It’s simply a matter of deciding which guys you’ll move and which ones you won’t.

If your list of “untouchable” prospects is too long you won’t be able to make very significant deals.

Brandon — none of those guys are available. Give it up.

I am not a big Jeremy Bleich fan. Whoever the Yanks draft in the first round Tuesday I hope he is healthy, really wants to sign and isn’t a RHP or catcher!
Cash is King June 2nd, 2009 at 1:51 pm
“SJ44
June 2nd, 2009 at 1:34 pm
There is no way I’d put Hughes in the bullpen. That’s not a solution.

I’d send him back to Scranton so he could pitch regularly before I’d put him in the bullpen.”

In three weeks, if Hughes is pitching well and the Yankees are ready to send Wang back into the rotation, sending Hughes back to face AAA hitters doesn’t do much for me when he needs to face ML hitters constantly so he can continue to learn how to attach them.
Brandon ? Is Berroa really starting today ???? June 2nd, 2009 at 1:52 pm
“I’d trade Brackman before I trade Betances”

Me too. Brackman has the ML contract and is on the 40, you can always get him back when he goes FA.
Cash is King June 2nd, 2009 at 1:52 pm
I meant attack ML hitters.
Patrick June 2nd, 2009 at 1:52 pm
GB7,

Brackman’s last start was pretty bad as well. He walks too many batters. Honestly I’m just not very high on him. He’s a 23 year old in low-A ball who isn’t dominating the league like he should be. He will likely be in Charleston for the entire season. Tampa for a full season, Trenton for a full season.

He will be a 26 year old just entering AAA. Consider trading him now while people still think he’s a big time prospect. There is so much time left in his development, there is a very very high probability that he never makes it.
m June 2nd, 2009 at 1:52 pm
The sad part is that we wouldn’t even be talking about Street if Bruney was healthy. sigh.

Anyone think that the Rangers are thinking homerun derby?

I see many breaking balls in my crystal ball. We need to use the Rangers’ hyper-aggressiveness against them.
STX 99 June 2nd, 2009 at 1:53 pm
Don’t think I would give up Romine.

I’d give up Brackman or Betances before Romine.

I wouldn’t put Romine in the untouchable category with Montero/Hughes etc. but he is right there with McAllister for me as the 2nd tier guy you don’t want to get rid of.
randy l. June 2nd, 2009 at 1:53 pm
the yankees bullpen could look a lot better if the yankees could expand their lead to 5-6 games. it’s just simply easier pitching under less pressure especially with so many young guys who are learning to handle real pressure for the first time.

the red sox are reeling. they really are suffering now from not spending hardly anything over the winter. there’s only a one game difference, but the yankees are trending up and the red sox down.

the yankees if they get everything rolling could be quite the powerhouse and could carry the bullpen.

in the playoffs i’m assuming joba won’t be starting then because of innings so the bullpen then would get an immediate upgrade.

the bullpen just needs to be good enough to get the yankees in the playoffs.
vin June 2nd, 2009 at 1:54 pm
Brackman missed all of last year b/c of TJ surgery, and he didn’t throw a ton of innings in college – so I see him as a “young” (ie inexperienced) 23.

The Yanks have invested too much in him already to simply write him off. Let him at least finish his first year playing for the organization before dealing him.

Besides, isn’t there a time frame that has to be met before a drafted player can be traded?
S.o.S. June 2nd, 2009 at 1:54 pm
vin,
If Karstens and Ohlendorf can be successful in the N.L.. So can Aceves. I know hes been very usefull to our pen. But the question is do we need a long man more than a 7th/8th inning guy? I think if a team looked at him as one of their 5 starters and we can get someone that can help those last 2 innings before the door is shut in the 9th. Id do it and put Phil in as the long man. You have to give something to get something.
vtred June 2nd, 2009 at 1:54 pm
Hope Burnett can keep the ball in the ballpark tonight

Rangers lead the league in HRs
SJ44 June 2nd, 2009 at 1:55 pm
Patrick,

It all depends on what it would take to do the deal.

Cervelli playing well helps in terms of who can back up Jorge next year.

It really depends on Higatosha’s development. If its stalled, I don’t think about trading Romine. If he shows what he is capable of showing, then they have to make the ultimate decision.

Is Jesus Montero a catcher or not? If he is, then Romine is in play. If he’s not, then you have to keep Romine.

My point in all this is, they have the options to make just about any deal they want to make. Just a question of price for the player desired and will to do the deal.
vin June 2nd, 2009 at 1:56 pm
“Don’t quite get the comparison 6’10” and 24 yo to 6’5” and 29. Not to mention Brackman is in his first full year of professional ball.”

It was mostly said in jest. Veras’ mechanics are so painful to watch even when he IS throwing strikes. Arms and legs all over the place…
Nat June 2nd, 2009 at 1:57 pm
This series is going to be wild

Burnett is among the league leaders in giving up HRs and Texas leads the league in HRs

Texas also KILLS lefties and are facing 2 in this series

We face 3 mediocre righties, with our lefties eying the short porch
Patrick June 2nd, 2009 at 1:57 pm
Okay lets come up with a list of untouchable prospects.

My list: Jackson, Montero, Romine, McAllister and that’s all folks

Jackson is the closest major league ready prospect with the potential to be Torii Hunter 2.0

Montero could be a legit slugger in the majors, if he sticks at catcher even better.

Romine needs to stay in case Montero is moved off catcher. He has legit defense and is hitting a lot better than expected.

McAllister is basically our only legit pitching prospect in AA or higher. Kontos is okay but he’s more likely to be a bullpen arm if he makes the majors.

I considered adding Betances because of his huge potential but he’s still too raw to be considered untouchable.

By the way, does anyone know what happened to Jairo Heredia? He’s on the 7-day disabled list and hasn’t pitched yet this year.
Trevor June 2nd, 2009 at 1:58 pm
Does Francesa listen to everyone when it comes to other farm systems? He should do a little bit of research.
Just because the RS want some SS in the Philly system doesn’t mean the Phillies have a great system. Not saying they don’t.
But looking up this kid’s numbers Jason Donald SS in the Philly org. I don’t know anything about this prospect but his numbers are bad. Batting .234 OBP .299 OPS .636
And to think he’s singing this kids praises.
vtred June 2nd, 2009 at 1:58 pm
Alex from Bedminster back on
Brandon ? Is Berroa really starting today ???? June 2nd, 2009 at 1:58 pm
Alex vs Fatcessaaaaaaa pt.2
five iron from fenway June 2nd, 2009 at 1:58 pm
SJ – My point is that you don’t use your prospects for a bullpen arm. CB has been pointing out all day how good Putz was and what he has been this year. Street also has the issue of injury.
If you are using guys like Betances, Romine in a multi-prospect deal I would hope that get back a young, stud position player.
S.o.S. June 2nd, 2009 at 1:58 pm
mel,
I think im a free agent this offseason and im looking for an nba team to jump on. I thought it would be Cleveland, but after the sore looser antics of Lebron. I cant root for him. Im leaning Miami with Wade. Who would you recomment excluding the lakers of course.
SJ44 June 2nd, 2009 at 1:58 pm
Patrick,

I’d keep Coke before Veras. I forgot to include him on my list.

The Yankees list of “untouchable” minor league prospects are not as long as fans lists.

There are very, very few untouchables. Austin Jackson, Jesus Montero, Mark Melancon, Andrew Brackman and perhaps Zach McAllister are probably the only 5 untouchables in the organization.

The rest? All in play depending on the player and the deal terms.
jennifer June 2nd, 2009 at 1:59 pm
Joba was terrible going into last night. on what planet.
Kevin in the 908 June 2nd, 2009 at 1:59 pm
Mike fighting with Alex is funny.
vin June 2nd, 2009 at 1:59 pm
SoS, fair enough. If he could be had for a higher impact arm, then sure… but we’ll have to see what develops in the trade market.
Patrick June 2nd, 2009 at 1:59 pm
Yes SJ44 I agree with you. However, the answers to all the questions you just put forth are unknown and will remain unknown for the foreseeable future. Therefore it’s too early to trade Romine. Once some of those questions are answered (Higatosha, Montero) then I would certainly entertain offers for Romine. Right now I consider him untouchable – he has the potential to be an above average hitting and defensive major league catcher which is extremely rare.
MaineYankee June 2nd, 2009 at 2:00 pm
SJ44

They could include Vendetti and he would count as two pitchers.
bru June 2nd, 2009 at 2:00 pm
cashman is not going to allow the bullpen woes to ruin the season.

he will do what it takes to fix it if he feels in a few weeks that it needs fixing.

it might take a few 7th & or 8th inning blown leads or further setbacks to bruney & or marte.
five iron from fenway June 2nd, 2009 at 2:00 pm
Patrick – building up arm strength. I think I read somewhere he threw a couple of innings last week, so he is still a few extended starts away from being at full inning capacity.
Are Brackman and Betances in a league that is too far removed from the majors to get back enough? Meaning are you selling low because they are in A ball?
S.A.--Let's get ready to rumble! June 2nd, 2009 at 2:01 pm
Alex from Bedminster! You tell him!
Patrick June 2nd, 2009 at 2:02 pm
Ah yes I forgot about Mark Melancon, he would be on my “untouchable” list as well. Right now in my personal opinion I would consider Jackson, Melancon, McAllister, Montero and Romine “untouchable”. I obviously highly value Brackman, Betances and others but I would entertain offers for them.
REZ June 2nd, 2009 at 2:02 pm
We have the 3rd worst bullpen in baseball, ahead of only the Nationals and Angels.

That is not going to hold up well over the long haul. Who knows how Bruney’s elbow progresses. There isin’t even a timetable for Marte’s return.

We have a restocked farm system and one weakness. We are one reliever away from being complete. With all that said, it only makes sense you go out and get the guy you need.
IrishCarBomb June 2nd, 2009 at 2:03 pm
besides 1 really good start, hughes has been merely average so far this year.
Wave Your Hat June 2nd, 2009 at 2:03 pm
Back from lunch.

Here’s my issue with Huston Street.

In a world without constraints, I’d love Huston Street to be in the Yanks bullpen. If Colorado wants to trade him, we clearly have the goods in the minor leagues to get him.

And yet…

I suspect that the Yanks will be looking to decrease their team payroll next year. Right now, in Damon, Matsui, Nady and Pettitte, they have a minimum of $38MM coming off the books, maybe as much as $44MM.

They will need to replace the offensive production from Damon, Matsui and Nady. Maybe some of that comes from AJax, but they will need to get at least one bopper. Let’s allocate $15MM. That leaves $23MM to $29MM.

Let’s say they want to knock the payroll down, to under $200MM, maybe down to $185MM-$190MM. That eats up $10MM to $20MM of the $23MM-$29MM.

If that’s so, I don’t think investing in Street is the wisest use of scarce resources. I think building a bench and adding a little more offensive firepower would be more productive.

In Coke, Melancon, Robertson and Betances there is a lot of potential. McCallister is the kind of guy you might build a trade for an OF around. I’m not sure gutting the farm for Street, as good as he is, is wise.
S.o.S. June 2nd, 2009 at 2:04 pm
Jackson is the closest major league ready prospect with the potential to be Torii Hunter 2.0

——–

Patrick,
You really think he can be like Hunter? Hunter has power and a gold glove to go with it. I heard he hasnt been hitting homers this year because they are shortening his swing to cut down on his strikeouts. Im not sure if he is has gold glove potential in the outfield. Never seen him play.
I remember when they said Tabata was the next Ramirez and Nick Johnson was the next Mattingly. Tough to live up to that caliber of players.
Patrick June 2nd, 2009 at 2:04 pm
five iron -

Thanks for the Heredia update, he is another high ceiling arm similar to Betances but he doesn’t get nearly as much exposure.

Re: selling low

It depends on how you think they will progress. If you think Brackman will eventually be a stud then yeah it’s selling low but if you think he will struggle to make the majors maybe it would be selling high?
Kevin in the 908 June 2nd, 2009 at 2:04 pm
Mike does have a point with his winning the pennant this year. In my opinion in professional sports it is about winning a championship each and every season whereas in collegiate athletics it is about building a program which takes time. Professional athletics are a business and a business should strive to be the best it can be each and every year and if moving one person from one role to another role makes them better then so be it.
Brandon ? Is Berroa really starting today ???? June 2nd, 2009 at 2:05 pm
“The Yankees list of “untouchable” minor league prospects are not as long as fans lists.

There are very, very few untouchables. Austin Jackson, Jesus Montero, Mark Melancon, Andrew Brackman and perhaps Zach McAllister are probably the only 5 untouchables in the organization.”

How is Brackman on this list but not Betances ?
G. Love June 2nd, 2009 at 2:05 pm
I vote for trading Romine for a big piece for the pen and then drafting SJ’s nephew to replace him just for the sake of blog synergy.
Redding June 2nd, 2009 at 2:05 pm
My untouchable list consists of

Hughes, Montero, Jackson, Pena, Cervelli, Romine, Brackman, Betances, Melancon, Baneolous, Marshall, Higashokia, Coke, Robertson, Dunn, WDR, Garcia, Nunez, Jorge Vasquez, and Laird

Everyone else for me is available.
bru June 2nd, 2009 at 2:06 pm
francessa needs to calm down with the whip statistic.

it is the most important indicator of how well a pitcher is pitching but it is to early to use it with joba after 50 innings or so.

it can go down quickly.

i love the debth the yankees have in the starting rotation.
if i am cashman i am working the phones very soon to get a reliever based on the uncertainty of marte & bruney.
GreenBeret7 June 2nd, 2009 at 2:06 pm
If a deal is to be made with Colorado, I’d look to try adding Brad Hawpe in the deal. He’s average at best on defense, but, the smaller right fields in the AL could disguise that. Only Boston would be an issue. Could the Yanks interest them in Swisher by picking up half of his contract? Possibly. They need pitching, though.

I’d deal Dunn as part of the deal in a heartbeat. Betances would be a tough choice, but, it might be necessary. I’d try to talk them into taking Laid before Romine, since they already have Iannetta. I’d draw the line at De La Rosa, because he’s left handed and he could start, close or set up in the 8th inning.

Miranda is expendable, but, right now Helton is hitting well and he’s their only drawing card. They could play him in right field, but, that could be ugly. The Yanks biggest trade chip is the ability to absorb a contract. Sanit, Kontos, Kroenke, Nova, Josh Schmidt, Texeira are all possible trade possibilities. One other that would/could be dealt is Aceves, though, that might be counterproductive, since it opens another hole.
Patrick June 2nd, 2009 at 2:07 pm
I never liked the Ramirez comparison for Tabata but that’s neither here nor there.

I think Jackson can be similar to Hunter. He does have very good defensive skills and he’s a pretty good hitter. Right now he isn’t hitting homers but he’s still young and a lot of scouts think he will develop more power as he gets older. With his level of athleticism I think anything is possible.
Patrick June 2nd, 2009 at 2:08 pm
I hope that’s a joke Redding…

Brandon I agree with you. Both guys have HUGE ceilings but Betances is more advanced than Brackman. Honestly I’d consider trading both of them but I’d demand a lot for either one.
PittsburghYankeeFan June 2nd, 2009 at 2:09 pm
Look

8th inning of game 5 of the 2009 World Series at Yankee Stadium against the Dodgers. Yankees up 2-1 in the game, and 3-1 in the series.

I pitch Joba then. Until then, he’s a starter.
Brandon ? Is Berroa really starting today ???? June 2nd, 2009 at 2:09 pm
“Hughes, Montero, Jackson, Pena, Cervelli, Romine, Brackman, Betances, Melancon, Baneolous, Marshall, Higashokia, Coke, Robertson, Dunn, WDR, Garcia, Nunez, Jorge Vasquez, and Laird”

Hughes, Montero, Jackson, Betances, Melancon, Banuelos, WDR, Dunn….. everyone else ring ring ..hello
Christina - Pictures from the Scranton WB Game- Melancon and Shelley! June 2nd, 2009 at 2:09 pm
I am trying to get through to Francesa today. Too many worshippers on his show for Jobber in the bullpen.
m June 2nd, 2009 at 2:09 pm
SoS,

Of course you should be cheering for my team. But if you’re not man enough for that, then you should jump on Portland’s bandwagon. They’re going to be good (thanks to all those high draft picks) for years to come and will be butting heads with my team, so you’ll actually enjoy cheering for them. You did want to stay Western Conference, no?
Jordan June 2nd, 2009 at 2:09 pm
Mike just used the word “versatility” and Matsui in the same sentence.
86w183 June 2nd, 2009 at 2:10 pm
The further away from the majors a guy is the higher level talent the other club will expect. Thus if you are after a Huston Street you have to be willing to do Betances even though there are guys in the system who are better than he is right now.

I agree with holding on to Romine, no argument there.

Anyone have a realistic bullpen target other than Street? I think he’s a perfect fit but would like to hear other ideas for a setup guy.

Yankees have $ 40 Million coming off the books and just $ 5 Million or so in raises. Thus the $$$ in Street’s contract are not significant.
Trevor June 2nd, 2009 at 2:10 pm
Redding -

Do you want to give up anyone?
Vince June 2nd, 2009 at 2:10 pm
Smoltz is a reminder of Bret Saberhagen. It’s exremely difficult to come back from torn labrum surgery and especially at the age of 42. Gammons must have forgotten about the assorted elbow surgeries Smoltz has experienced.
Jordan June 2nd, 2009 at 2:12 pm
bru,

He’s using WHIP because its he needs to an argument vs. people who analyze baseball through stats. Some intern probably explained it to him and now he thinks he’s conquered the stat argument. Unfortunately, there are other statistics which tell a different story which Mike isn’t going to bother to try and understand.
MaineYankee June 2nd, 2009 at 2:12 pm
GB7

Where can I find pitching match ups for a AA game between Portland and Trenton? I checked both team sites and couldn’t find anything.
vin June 2nd, 2009 at 2:12 pm
Torii Hunter’s power didn’t develop until he was 25, and in his 3rd full year in the bigs.

http://www.thebaseballcube.com.....nter.shtml
Lowz June 2nd, 2009 at 2:12 pm
Brackman is going to be 24 this year, is on the 40 man roster, and is only in A-ball.

He has a ton of moving parts, control problems galore and has a low chance of reaching his potential

Why would you keep him and trade Betances?
Dr. Cox June 2nd, 2009 at 2:12 pm
yea so why does LAA have 5 first round draft picks this year?

They cant all be supplemental/comp because of Tex…
GreenBeret7 June 2nd, 2009 at 2:13 pm
There’s very little chance that Jackson is going to be a new version of Torii Hunter. He could be like a right handed version of Johnny Damon with an arm.
Christina - Pictures from the Scranton WB Game- Melancon and Shelley! June 2nd, 2009 at 2:13 pm
K-Rod?
E-Rod June 2nd, 2009 at 2:13 pm
Wait… Coke is untouchable?

LOL
S.o.S. June 2nd, 2009 at 2:13 pm
GB7,
Hows it going? I left last night about the time you and Pete were having a dissagreement. I just wanted to say that you should be on that positive list he broke down and i appreciate your input. BTW I thought i should have sniffed that list as well. Must have fell off when bashing Berroa.

Why isnt Igawa on the untouchable list? He was pitcher of the year in 08. Is it becuase he looks cooler than any other pitcher with his shades on? Get over it, hes here to stay. No respect.
Coach6423 June 2nd, 2009 at 2:14 pm
Dr. COx
Tex, and Krod
Bill June 2nd, 2009 at 2:14 pm
Irish C B; Besides one really bad start Hughes has been 3-1, 3.54 ERA and 1.27 WHIP. If that’s average I’ll take it.
Wilson June 2nd, 2009 at 2:14 pm
Trade Miranda for JJ Putz and try and revive him
GreenBeret7 June 2nd, 2009 at 2:17 pm
MaineYankee
June 2nd, 2009 at 2:12 pm
GB7

Where can I find pitching match ups for a AA game between Portland and Trenton? I checked both team sites and couldn’t find anything.

————————————————————

The only way I could do it is to check the previous 15 games or so for each team and check the rotation. Then check their games schedules for the future. Enjoy being driven crazy. After that, check the 30 day weather forcasts or see if your beetle is laying on it’s back (sure sign of rain).
m June 2nd, 2009 at 2:18 pm
Wait. Someone’s willing to trade Hughes? Andy P’s replacement?
Trevor June 2nd, 2009 at 2:18 pm
RS fan who likes Joba in the rotation because they could make him throw lots of pitches and beat up on the Yankee pen.
The RS have yet to touch Joba outside of that 1st inning. I wouldn’t get too excited if I were a Sox fan.
vin June 2nd, 2009 at 2:19 pm
“There’s very little chance that Jackson is going to be a new version of Torii Hunter. He could be like a right handed version of Johnny Damon with an arm.”

Fine by me, seeing as how Damon has had the better career. Way more hits (900 more), doubles, triples, 32 fewer HRs, more steals, way more walks, fewere SOs, higher BA and OBP, obviously lower slugging %.
Brandon ? Is Berroa really starting today ???? June 2nd, 2009 at 2:19 pm
“Brackman is going to be 24 this year, is on the 40 man roster, and is only in A-ball.

He has a ton of moving parts, control problems galore and has a low chance of reaching his potential

Why would you keep him and trade Betances?”

Exactly if anything he’s the first thing I sell, he has a 4 yr. ML contract after that he’s a FA for anyone including us if he reaches his potential.
S.o.S. June 2nd, 2009 at 2:19 pm
mel,
It doesnt have to be a west coast team. I started off a Bulls fan. When Jordan retired i went to the Spurs because of how Duncan handled himself. I like what Portland is doing and Roy seems to be the real deal. Any other teams you see with an all star surrounded with good young talent? I thought Miami could be one with Wade and the young guys like Beasly he has on the team.

Are you worried at all about Orlando?
MaineYankee June 2nd, 2009 at 2:19 pm
GreenBeret7
June 2nd, 2009 at 2:17 pm
MaineYankee
June 2nd, 2009 at 2:12 pm
GB7

Where can I find pitching match ups for a AA game between Portland and Trenton? I checked both team sites and couldn’t find anything.
——————————————————————————————
The only way I could do it is to check the previous 15 games or so for each team and check the rotation. Then check their games schedules for the future. Enjoy being driven crazy. After that, check the 30 day weather forcasts or see if your beetle is laying on it’s back (sure sign of rain).

————————————————

If a beetle is on his back now he’s drowning. We’ve had enough rain.
GreenBeret7 June 2nd, 2009 at 2:20 pm
S.o.S.
June 2nd, 2009 at 2:13 pm
GB7,
Hows it going? I left last night about the time you and Pete were having a dissagreement. I just wanted to say that you should be on that positive list he broke down and i appreciate your input. BTW I thought i should have sniffed that list as well. Must have fell off when bashing Berroa.

Why isnt Igawa on the untouchable list? He was pitcher of the year in 08. Is it becuase he looks cooler than any other pitcher with his shades on? Get over it, hes here to stay. No respect.

————————————————————

Afternoon, S.o.S. Doing fine, thanks for asking. Hope all is well in the H.E.L.P. home.

A disagreement between me and PA? Never. No disagreement. I agreed with everything I said.
Nick in SF June 2nd, 2009 at 2:20 pm
“They cry, “They have to get younger”!!! Yet, they allow no development curve for this to take place.”

Folks don’t want the team to get younger until the youngsters get older.
Brandon ? Is Berroa really starting today ???? June 2nd, 2009 at 2:21 pm
“RS fan who likes Joba in the rotation because they could make him throw lots of pitches and beat up on the Yankee pen.
The RS have yet to touch Joba outside of that 1st inning. I wouldn’t get too excited if I were a Sox fan.”

I was cracking up through that call.

I actually like the idea of him in the rotation, oh really other than the first inning in the Bronx, on a night he wasn’t 100 % you haven’t even pinched Joba
S.o.S. June 2nd, 2009 at 2:22 pm
He could be like a right handed version of Johnny Damon with an arm.

————-

He would probably have a better arm than Damon throwing left handed.

Speaking of arms, i never followed Swishers career much. But did he always throw pop flies back to the infield like he has recently trying to throw runners out?
MaineYankee June 2nd, 2009 at 2:23 pm
S.o.S.

Don’t count the Celtics yet. I know them’s fighting words here.
Brandon ? Is Berroa really starting today ???? June 2nd, 2009 at 2:23 pm
Youkilis lives in fear and cold swet b/c of Joba
vin June 2nd, 2009 at 2:23 pm
“I like what Portland is doing and Roy seems to be the real deal.”

Good call on the Blazers. I was at a game in Portland a few years ago, during their Failblazer period and the fans there were awesome. The team stunk, and everybody knew it, bad chemistry was all over the place, but the fans were knowledgable and accepting of it. That Pacific Northwest is cool like that. If I wasn’t pre-conditioned to hate them (being a Laker fan and all), I would root for that team.
SJ44 June 2nd, 2009 at 2:23 pm
Nobody is saying gut the farm system to trade Street.

In fact, I’m saying the opposite.

Nobody is gutting the farm to trade for Huston Street.

They do however, have the parts to trade for him (if they want to) and not gut the farm in the process. Something that’s different from previous years.
Rick June 2nd, 2009 at 2:25 pm
Who has the GREATER CHANCE to reach their ceiling (both of which are high)— Betances or Brackman? Betances, by a mile.

You don’t trade that for a guy with a higher ceiling but a lower chance of reaching it, especially when the ceiling of Brackman isin’t that much different than Betances is.

Chances are, neither reaches their ceiling. But Betances is in a much better position to do so.
Zone June 2nd, 2009 at 2:25 pm
I will be more ticked off if they trade Betances than I would be when they traded Tabata
Dr. Cox June 2nd, 2009 at 2:25 pm
“Dr. COx
Tex, and Krod”

right, right, right. knew I was missing someone.

thanks.
E-gawa June 2nd, 2009 at 2:26 pm
“Irish C B; Besides one really bad start Hughes has been 3-1, 3.54 ERA and 1.27 WHIP. If that’s average I’ll take it.”

Yeah but that’s misleading… He’s only gone past 5 innings in 2 of his 7 starts this year. 6 innings against Detroit and 8 innings recently against Texas.

The sooner Wang gets back, the less we have to use the pen, the better off we’ll be.
vin June 2nd, 2009 at 2:26 pm
“Speaking of arms, i never followed Swishers career much. But did he always throw pop flies back to the infield like he has recently trying to throw runners out?”

Not only is his arm poor, but it is often times aimed at the wrong base. Throwing home when there’s not chance to get a guy, not holding a guy at 1st, missing the cut-off man just kills me.

I’m still on the “get Mark DeRosa” bandwagon. Him splitting time with Swish would make Nick look a heck of a lot better.
Brandon ? Is Berroa really starting today ???? June 2nd, 2009 at 2:26 pm
SJ but why Betances and not Brackman since Brackman is the older one and in A ball and has what 2 or 3 yrs. left before FA ?

I mean unless you can guarantee me he shoots up like Joba all of the sudden to the Yankee SU spot this fall
S.o.S. June 2nd, 2009 at 2:28 pm
I agreed with everything I said.

—–

GB,
Never doubted that for a minute. Isnt that why they came up with the Old dog new tricks saying?

H.E.L.P.? I dont have my divinci code hat on. Cant seem to decode it.
Eastport June 2nd, 2009 at 2:28 pm
Every player in the farm can’t be untouchable

When you start making guys like Mike Dunn or De La Rosa untouchable, then the only person you can get in a trade is Arthur Rhodes or perhaps Chan Ho Park.
m June 2nd, 2009 at 2:28 pm
SoS,

No, no other teams beside Portland. They seemed to do well even with an 60 yr. old center. And that Aldridge guy can be ridiculous sometimes.

Of course I’m worried about Orlando. They swept the regular season series, but Jameer torched us in both games. And Farmar was out, and Sham-wow wasn’t with us then. Even if Jameer comes back for this series, he’ll be rusty and coming off the bench IMO.

Howard’s a beast, but how is he going to keep from fouling out while guarding Bynum and Gasol AND trying to keep Odom and Kobe from taking it to the basket?
randy l. June 2nd, 2009 at 2:29 pm
everyone seems to say the yankees encourage their pitchers to pound the strike zone and throw strikes, but the reality is they are next to last in the american league in walks given up.

maybe having a bullpen that threw strikes would help.

i really don’t see it that the yankee coaches encourage pounding the zone. if they do , then they have some really wild pitchers.
Wave Your Hat June 2nd, 2009 at 2:29 pm
You folk have your head in the ground, IMO, if you think the Yanks aren’t going to make a serious effort to cut payroll next year.

Plus, despite the approximately $40MM coming off the books, the Yanks will need to make serious outlays to replace Damon, Swisher and Nady.

I can’t see them taking $6MM to $8MM and spending it on another reliever. Not when there are lots of near-major league ready relief talent in our system.

I think Huston Street is just a fan’s pipe dream (unfortunately).

By the way, the payroll is another reason why Joba stays a starter. Replacing him in the rotation could cost big $$.
Joe June 2nd, 2009 at 2:30 pm
I think CMW should be back in the line-up and Hughes should be sent down just to solidify a finishing pitch. I know he is doing a decent job, but if he had a great finishing pitch, or a slightly better ability to locate one, he could be the Phil Hughes we are hoping for.

I think that is what led to his troubles against the Indians.

Hughes can’t figure out how to pitch without his A game. A guy like Andy, who has not really been sharp all year, is 5-1? And hasn’t had all of his stuff for any starts. Hughes could use to find that ability. If this was the American League East of the late 90s, I would say let him work it out in the Majors. This American League East seems like the playoffs all year round.

Thoughts?
Joe June 2nd, 2009 at 2:30 pm
I think CMW should be back in the line-up and Hughes should be sent down just to solidify a finishing pitch. I know he is doing a decent job, but if he had a great finishing pitch, or a slightly better ability to locate one, he could be the Phil Hughes we are hoping for.

I think that is what led to his troubles against the Indians.

Hughes can’t figure out how to pitch without his A game. A guy like Andy, who has not really been sharp all year, is 5-1? And hasn’t had all of his stuff for any starts. Hughes could use to find that ability. If this was the American League East of the late 90s, I would say let him work it out in the Majors. This American League East seems like the playoffs all year round.

Thoughts?
Brandon ? Is Berroa really starting today ???? June 2nd, 2009 at 2:31 pm
Arroyo
SJ44 June 2nd, 2009 at 2:31 pm
Brandon,

Brackman, when healthy, has better stuff than Betances. By mid-season this year, you will see it.

He’s very close to getting all the way back from surgery.

You are talking about a guy that throws 96-100 when healthy, with a plus curveball and an emerging change up.

He has much better stuff than Betances. His problem is, he’s coming back from TJ Surgery and he’s not all the way back yet.

When he is, he’s the better prospect. Betances is a very good prospect. When healthy, Brackman can be a great prospect. That’s the difference between the two.
vin June 2nd, 2009 at 2:31 pm
FYI, Tabata is hitting .250 / .324 / .297 (slugging!!!) in AA. He’s still only 20/21 years old, but the lack of extra base hits has to be alarming (3 doubles only). He must’ve missed time with an injury because he’s only played 17 games. I’m sure he’s still considered a prospect, but I’m not sure if he is a guy who is a lock to make the majors.
Matt June 2nd, 2009 at 2:33 pm
4-1 with a 3.03 ERA isin’t good?
Wave Your Hat June 2nd, 2009 at 2:33 pm
SJ44-

“Gutting” the farm system was hyperbole. I admit it.

But relievers are inconsistent. I want to have lots of choices to choose from for the bullpen. And I don’t like allocating another $6MM to $8MM in the pen, which is what Street would cost.

I think the money could be used more effectively elsewhere. If you want to trade some of the minor leaguer pitchers for a young, good corner OF instead I’d listen.
Voodoo Chile June 2nd, 2009 at 2:34 pm
Apparently, Francessa has a man-crush on Bronson Arroyo.

Who knew?

I might call up and suggest the Yanks trade for Arroyo, then give him Andy’s spot in the rotation. Then, of course, send Andy to the bullpen.

“ANDY PETTITTE IS A STAHTAAAHHH!!!”
Brandon ? Is Berroa really starting today ???? June 2nd, 2009 at 2:35 pm
But SJ correct me if I’m wrong we can always get him back ? right and Betances is in high A while he’s in low. I mean…
Nick in SF June 2nd, 2009 at 2:35 pm
I wouldn’t write off Tabata as a solid prospect yet. Yes, he’s had some maturity issues, but he now has some solid role models in his life. I’m referring to his step-children, of course.
SJ44 June 2nd, 2009 at 2:36 pm
Wave,

You mean in how the Yankees were determined not to add another big salary to their off-season payroll and went to 180 for Tex?

I’ll believe the “cut” in payroll when I see it.

Some of us fell for that in the off-season and how did it end up.

The “fan pipe dream” is believing the Yankees will go to an all rookie or mostly rookie bullpen the rest of the way, and next season, for payroll reasons.

That’s not happening.

You want to reduce payroll in the off-season? They could get Street, trade Wang for a corner OF, and save money because Joba and Hughes would be in the rotation.

Andy is going year to year. Perhaps he comes back, perhaps not.

My point is, they can acquire Street and reduce payroll in the off-season if they wish.

One does not preclude the other.
Trevor June 2nd, 2009 at 2:36 pm
“4-1 with a 3.03 ERA isn’t good?”

He said for Lincecum it isn’t. But I say Lincecum hasn’t been around long enough to be saying something like that.
He had a great year last year but still…
ray (sox fan) June 2nd, 2009 at 2:36 pm
“Howard’s a beast, but how is he going to keep from fouling out while guarding Bynum and Gasol AND trying to keep Odom and Kobe from taking it to the basket?”

Hey m. I haven’t had the chance to watch your Lakers too much lately.

But whenever I listen to sports radio (not just Boston based ones) everyone seems very critical of Bynum.

Has he been playing as poorly as everyone says?
GreenBeret7 June 2nd, 2009 at 2:37 pm
S.o.S.
June 2nd, 2009 at 2:28 pm
I agreed with everything I said.
——-

GB,
Never doubted that for a minute. Isnt that why they came up with the Old dog new tricks saying?

H.E.L.P.? I dont have my divinci code hat on. Cant seem to decode it.

————————————————————

S.o.S. = H.E.L.P.

That old dog, new tricks is only for those that couldn’t do tricks in the first place. It’s more politically correct than calling them morons and idiots.
S.o.S. June 2nd, 2009 at 2:37 pm
FYI, Tabata is hitting .250 / .324 / .297 (slugging!!!) in AA. He’s still only 20/21 years old, but the lack of extra base hits has to be alarming (3 doubles only). He must’ve missed time with an injury because he’s only played 17 games. I’m sure he’s still considered a prospect, but I’m not sure if he is a guy who is a lock to make the majors.

——

Dont say that too loud, Brandon might here you.

vin,
Derosa would be nice, Cleveland is falling and if X cant get healthy it might be a good option for us.

mel,
I think you guys have it wrapped up. Howard will be in foul trouble all series and the long arms will make the 3′s very difficult. I hope im wrong.

bb later.
jack June 2nd, 2009 at 2:38 pm
you are crazy if you think cashman isin’t going to attempt to fix the bullpen at the deadline

melancon is a rookie, he is not the 2nd coming. the sooner you accept that and not be delusional, the better. rookies will go through their struggles and there is no guarantee he adjusts to the majors seamlessly in his 1st year.

when you have one weakness and are still a championship caliber club, you go out and fix that weakness especially when you have as many minor league chips as we do
Nick in SF June 2nd, 2009 at 2:38 pm
Brandon, what do you mean by “we can always get him back?”

Once a guy is out of the system, you have no idea if you can get him back. The other team could sign him long-term. Yes, when he’s a FA at 34, we can get him back, maybe.

I don’t remember you saying “we can always get him back” about Tabata.
Brandon ? Is Berroa really starting today ???? June 2nd, 2009 at 2:39 pm
“They could get Street, trade Wang for a corner OF”

I’m so there, but who would that COF be ? Ryan Sweeney ? Fernando Martinez ? … I need a young kid in this COF spot w/ 30/30/30 or 20/30/30 ability.
Brandon ? Is Berroa really starting today ???? June 2nd, 2009 at 2:40 pm
“I don’t remember you saying “we can always get him back” about Tabata.”

That’s b/c the trade sucked
Soul June 2nd, 2009 at 2:41 pm
lol

Where do the fans get this “cut payroll” BS from? What indication have they ever given they would cut payroll?

The only time they said they would was this past winter… and we all know what happened.
Joe June 2nd, 2009 at 2:41 pm
Wang is way too good to trade…

Andy might not be able to play again next year…

A trade of Wang is a silly move…

The Yankees are the best because they are the best at the business. They might not win every year, but they are always picked by someone. They are not the Marlins. They would not make that move. Makes no sense for the future.
SJ44 June 2nd, 2009 at 2:42 pm
Brandon,

Where they played Brackman this year isn’t really the issue. This year, its about him getting healthy. When he is, he’s a fast mover. Mainly because when healthy, he’s physically mature enough to handle the workload.

This year, its about getting his health and innings in.

He would have been the second pick in the draft 2 years ago if not for his elbow and signability issues. That’s how high his ceiling is.

Its just a matter of him putting in the work to get back to what he was prior to his elbow surgery.

FWIW, my nephew faced both Price and Brackman in college. He said Brackman was tougher for him because when he released the ball, he felt like he was two feet away from him.

He also said he has never faced a curveball as good as Brackman’s.

That kid has serious skills. Just a matter of time before he puts it together.
Nick in SF June 2nd, 2009 at 2:42 pm
How did the trade suck? He can’t help us now and we can always get him back. Right?
m June 2nd, 2009 at 2:42 pm
ray,

Yes, he has. Worse even.

It’s terrible. We go as he goes.

But, credit to Jackson. If he doesn’t like what he sees he yanks him. And Bynum hardly plays in crunch time.

Hey. Can you believe that the doctors are still looking at Brady? The knee guy likes what he sees, but should this still be an issue?
S.o.S. June 2nd, 2009 at 2:42 pm
S.o.S. = H.E.L.P.

That old dog, new tricks is only for those that couldn’t do tricks in the first place. It’s more politically correct than calling them morons and idiots.

————-

Got it. It can also mean Sultan of Swat GB.

lol. My bad being that your always there for answers. What would that make me? Ill just stick to Old and knowledgable gb.
AZ Mike June 2nd, 2009 at 2:42 pm
Ryan Sweeney patrolling our OF for the next decade

Andrew Bailly throwing smoke out of the pen setting up Rivera and eventually taking over for him
Brandon ? Is Berroa really starting today ???? June 2nd, 2009 at 2:43 pm
“Wang is way too good to trade…”

No he’s not, I’d trade him if the deal were right w/o blinking.
Wave Your Hat June 2nd, 2009 at 2:43 pm
SJ44-

I don’t WANT the Yanks to reduce payroll next year, but I think they WILL. That’s what those empty seats tell me, at any rate.

As I said, in a perfect world I’d love Huston Street. I’m not arguing with your taste in horseflesh.

As I’ve said, if they are serious in cutting payroll (and again let me be clear, I’m more than happy if they don’t), they don’t have as much money to replace Damon, Matsui and Swisher as you think.

And that’s assuming Andy’s gone and the rotation is CC, AJ, Joba, Wang and Hughes. If Andy’s back, the Yanks have even less $$.

And, call me crazy, but I think the Yanks can win it all with the pitchers we have, if you include the minor leaguers and Bruney (Marte being a bonus).
William Buckner June 2nd, 2009 at 2:43 pm
“I don’t remember you saying “we can always get him back” about Tabata.”

Nick, be fair. We were able to get CJ Henry back and look how well he’s done.
4 x 4 June 2nd, 2009 at 2:44 pm
Pettitte’s $12 million (he will likely reach all his incentives) is off the books next year.

Bingo. You have money for Street’s salary and some. Problem solved.
Joe June 2nd, 2009 at 2:45 pm
Best pitcher in baseball for a 2 year period before he got hurt?

Way too good. Sorry. He came back too soon is all.

I would rather have (a healthy) Wang in the rotation over Hughes anyday. Maybe not in 3 years, but now. Yes
Voodoo Chile June 2nd, 2009 at 2:45 pm
I’ve decided I’m going to handle people in everyday situations like Mike Francesa handles his callers.

Once I’ve heard enough, I’m going to wave them off.

I’m sure it’ll work out well for me. After all, if things start getting hairy, I can just pull out my “Back more after this” card.

/cut to commercial.
vin June 2nd, 2009 at 2:46 pm
“Dont say that too loud, Brandon might here you.
”

I know, I like it when he gets his feathers ruffled over it. Makes me laugh every time.

“Derosa would be nice, Cleveland is falling and if X cant get healthy it might be a good option for us.
”

To me, he’s more attainable than Street, simply from an economic POV. Most every team is going to be looking for BP help, but few would be willing to spend the prorated version of 5.5 million for a bench guy. That would give the Yanks tremendous versatility – would be difficult to match up with especially during the post-season.
Brandon ? Is Berroa really starting today ???? June 2nd, 2009 at 2:46 pm
AZ Mike, but Billy Beane is a dussshhh
m June 2nd, 2009 at 2:46 pm
I still think if Andy can pitch well in the east this season (like Moose did last season), the door will be open to him. But, I could see Andy hanging it up if we win the WS. So, for everyone’s sake, especially Phil’s, let’s all cheer for a WS victory!
ray (sox fan) June 2nd, 2009 at 2:47 pm
“Hey. Can you believe that the doctors are still looking at Brady? The knee guy likes what he sees, but should this still be an issue?”

M, with all the contradictory reports this last year about Brady and knowing how Belichek sits on information I honestly don’t think we will know how Brady is doing until we actually see him play.
Nick in SF June 2nd, 2009 at 2:47 pm
“we can always get him back” either applies to everybody or it applies to nobody. Not just the prospects folks want to hug.

Then again, we got Al Leiter back, didn’t we…
Joe June 2nd, 2009 at 2:47 pm
m,

I thought the same thing last night
86w183 June 2nd, 2009 at 2:48 pm
Wave your hat —-

You worry way too much about money, but since you brought it up. We are almost a third of the way through the season and Nady/Matsui are on a pace to combine to hit .267 with 21 HR and 63 RBI for almost $ 20 Million. The Yankees can easily replace that for a lot less money.

If Pettite retires and Hughes joins the rotation that’s big savings too. I think Molina ($ 2 Mill) is replaced by Cervelli too. I believe Damon will be the primary DH next year for less than the $ 13 Million he’s getting now.

There’s a ton of money to play with… and all the organization is trying to to is keep payroll close to $ 210 Mill and they can do that easily. You keep insisting the Yankees are determined to get payroll down to $ 180 Million or so but there’s no basis for that. It’s a number invented by Buster Olney to explain why the Yankees wouldn’t pursue Teixiera.

On the Betances/Brackman debate. Not only is Brackman much more talented at his best he has a contract you’d have trouble moving.
Trevor June 2nd, 2009 at 2:49 pm
Please stop. Just because he pumped his fist after that great play and Jeter showed no emotion.
Just stop. It’s ridiculous how the way this guy is analyzed. Especially coming from Sox fan now.
SJ44 June 2nd, 2009 at 2:49 pm
They can’t win it all with this bullpen. Its just not that good.

They would need Bruney and Marte to be back to unhittable levels and, given their injuries, that’s dicey.

I could see them moving Wang in the off-season. If you have AJ, CC, Joba and Hughes in the rotation, moving Wang for a corner OF could be something they do.

Especially if Andy wants to come back for another year or, they feel Zach McAllister could be their fifth starter.

They have options. They could cut payroll by 10-15% and still have Street, or someone like him in the pen.

Just depends on what they want to do.

Personally, I wouldn’t trade Wang. However, its pretty clear they are some tense feelings between the two sides. When that happens, anything is possible.
Rob NY -- 2009 The Road to Redemption June 2nd, 2009 at 2:49 pm
Nick — I may have missed some sarcasm somewhere but I think he means since Brackman will be a FA in 3-4 years we could get him back while he’s still in his 20s. That’s because he is on the 40 man roster on a major league deal already.
... June 2nd, 2009 at 2:50 pm
Well, we did get Marte back eventually
S.A.--Let's get ready to rumble! June 2nd, 2009 at 2:50 pm
Steve Phillips: The Yankees need to keep Hughes to the bullpen as a possibility
Nick in SF June 2nd, 2009 at 2:50 pm
WYH: you have included Swisher on your ‘off the books for next season’ list a couple of times. He’s on the books. It’s Damon, Matsui, and Nady who can come off the books.
Pat M June 2nd, 2009 at 2:51 pm
200 million payroll is going to be the standard for the Yanks….Adding Street would be a major addition….If Nady cannot comeback and play the outfield then obtaining another corner of will be next on Cashamn’s list….I’ve been saying this all season, this is a very good ballclub and 09 is going to be a very special season……
m June 2nd, 2009 at 2:52 pm
joe,

That Andy could come back? Or that it’d be nice to win a WS?

Okay, with all this talk about payroll, we gotta talk about Johnny Damon.

Smart money says to let him go, but he’s been solid for us. But we couldn’t wait to get rid of Abreu, who was also solid for us. Many of us could live with 1 year for Damon, but can he? I doubt it. Although, if he takes a look at Burrell, and Abreu, he might want to reconsider.
DB - (officially panicked 5/13/09) June 2nd, 2009 at 2:52 pm
Before you all poop on Brackman, he just came back this year from TJ surgery. No one pitches effectively when just coming back. Give him to the end of the year before you throw in the towel.

For people not too sure who he is, read this..
http://riveraveblues.com/2007/.....kman-1141/
Tom in N.J. June 2nd, 2009 at 2:52 pm
Ruben Rivera too!
SJ44 June 2nd, 2009 at 2:53 pm
I fell for the “we have to cut payroll” stuff last year.

I had senior officials from the Yankees tell me there was “no way” the payroll would go beyond 180 next year and “no way” they would enter the Tex Sweepstakes.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on ME! lol

They can reduce payroll and still carry Huston street next year, if they so choose.

Either way, I don’t see the Yankees not making a move to upgrade the bullpen because of financial issues. That’s not the Steinbrenner Way. Even the sons don’t buy into that belief.
Wave Your Hat June 2nd, 2009 at 2:53 pm
Nick-

Surely I didn’t include Swisher (but I see I did). Shame on me, I know better than that.

Swisher is a typo for Nady, and I apologize for any confusion.
Brandon ? Is Berroa really starting today ???? June 2nd, 2009 at 2:55 pm
“Steve Phillips: The Yankees need to keep Hughes to the bullpen as a possibility”

Why ? when we can just trade him for Jared Burton
vin June 2nd, 2009 at 2:56 pm
“Steve Phillips: The Yankees need to keep Hughes to the bullpen as a possibility”

Oh no, now Steve Phillips shares the same view as me?! First Neyer, now Phillips… my world is crashing down around me.
Patrick June 2nd, 2009 at 2:57 pm
I’ve never understood why people think Brackman will be a “fast mover”. He hardly pitched in college and will need to build up a base of innings before he’s major league ready. We see Joba on a 150 innings limit, it’s even worse for Brackman. Additionally his mechanics are still out of wack because he just hasn’t pitched enough. Even if he is 100% healthy he will probably need a full season at Tampa and another full season at Trenton. He will be a 26 year old entering AAA if everything goes right.
jennifer June 2nd, 2009 at 2:57 pm
He doesn’t agree with you he screams over you. What a moron.
chambliss June 2nd, 2009 at 2:57 pm
Please DFA Veras already. I cringe every time that he enters a game. He has great stuff but no idea where the ball is going. I would rather see Swisher in the game. He can at least throw strikes. I know that the Yankees feel that Veras has potential, but if they are going to risk games on someone with potential I would rather see them go with a young arm like Melancon.
Trevor June 2nd, 2009 at 2:59 pm
And Posada took it back in the Spring. Just because Posada is a catcher doesn’t mean he’s right.
Now Posada thinks he has what it takes to be a starter. Francesa continues to be a D-bag.
Wave Your Hat June 2nd, 2009 at 2:59 pm
Well, SJ44, I don’t think we are arguing from the heart this time.

As I said, if the Yanks went out and got Huston Street (and I don’t really think the Rockies will trade him when all is said and done), I’d be delighted as long as it didn’t constrain them next year.

But this past off-season, I argued the Yanks wouldn’t cut payroll. However, right now, I believe the Yanks will cut payroll in the next off-season. I also believe that, whether they should or shouldn’t, they are likely to try to land either Bey or Holliday.

And, I’m surprised you’re a bullpen pessimist. The pen is much better than it was (only a 4.04 ERA in May remember, not great but a lot better than it was), and the starters are going deeper. I think when we get up Bruney and Melancon comes up the pen could be excellent.

And teams can win it all without a stellar pen. The 2009 Yankees are good enough to do so!
vin June 2nd, 2009 at 2:59 pm
“They can reduce payroll and still carry Huston street next year, if they so choose.”

Not only that, but if they win the WS, then they’ll continue to spend money to maintain the winning.

And if they lose the the WS, they’ll spend money to rectify the loss.

I doubt the payroll will be less next year than it will be this year. They’re not going to sign 3 big FAs like they did this year, but they don’t need to (at least for a few years).
jennifer June 2nd, 2009 at 3:00 pm
Of course he is better as a reliever. How many pitchers would have .38 era as a starter. And does he think he’d continue that success that he had as a reliever. I guess he honestly believes he’d have a .38 era as a reliever if he went back there.
bodhisattva - OPPC member - Destiny Wears Pinstripes June 2nd, 2009 at 3:00 pm
MaineYankee
June 2nd, 2009 at 10:44 am
five iron
I read some interesting stats in the Herald the other day.
The RS splits home and away. Home BA .302 runs 6.3
Away BA 2.49 runs 3.7
Very telling.
In regards to Baldelli, I’m not suprised he is struggling. From what I have read about him I believe his health issues are from Lyme Disease. He had it in HS and it looks like it may have come back. It may have been in remission.
I have some knoledge of this because I have been dealing with it for 4+ years. Fatigue and muscle problems are a big part of it which is what he is dealing with.
=============

Hi Maine,

I had it also, 17 years ago. I blew up so much, I looked like a linebacker with pads on. It may sound cool to some, but it wasn’t.

I had some hot shot from Yale on my case, who wanted me to mega-dose on Biaxin. Stuff gave me vertigo, and who knows what else. I cut the course, went on a 3-day fast, and started taking an herb called Lomatium (under supervision of an herbalist), plus lots of co-enzyme Q10.

I fully recovered; and they scared the bleep out of me, telling me I’d develop MS, possibly wind up with a heart condition, could go blind, you name it – they tried to terrify me with it. It’s their job to give you the lowdown, but they don’t know everything, and they dismiss the body’s innate thrust toward health – with a boost here and there from natural medicines and foods.

To this day, I take Astragulus by capsule 4x/day (don’t take if you have a fever), eat bee pollen, and avoid all white sugar – which feeds spirochetes (not to mention – cancer cells).

Astragulus is a Traditional Chinese Medicine preventative for lyme, although I wouldn’t run around in the woods in shorts or tall grass and assume I had immunity.

Ledum is a homeopathic remedy for lyme they give to horses, since they tend to get it.

Another great herb is red clover, which you can drink cold. It’s a mild, gentle herb but incredibly effective in eating away excess protein in the body (which turns into sugar and feeds bad bacteria, wayward cells, etc.).

I’d recommend anyone who is diagnosed with lyme to do what you must, but not to get on a lengthy course of antibiotics. I’d do the emergency antibiotic for a short term, and then at least look into other options.

Hope you’re doing well, Maine. By the way, green juices, even organic Chlorophyl added to drinking water, is incredibly oxygenating (as Co-Q 10 is – spirochetes HATE oxygen).

There are two GREAT books I’d recommend to anyone who’s kid has this or who has been diagnosed themselves:

Lyme Disease & Modern Chinese Medicine; An Alternative Treatment Strategy (Dr. Qingchai Zhang & Zale Zhang (has a NYC practice last I checked)

and

Healing Lyme – by Stephen Harrod Buhner

Use them for their help, but don’t believe everything the mainstreamers tell you!
Best of luck & good health to all!
Uncle Ellsworth (Expert texpert choking smokers don't you think the joker laughs at you?) June 2nd, 2009 at 3:01 pm
VOTE for your Yankees!
SJ44 June 2nd, 2009 at 3:02 pm
Patrick,

That’s unlikely to happen.

He may end up at Tampa for the second half of this season.

If he does, and pitches well, he probably starts the next year in Trenton.

Sort of like McAllister’s movement through the season.

They even put DJ Mitchell through a similar growth cycle. If Brackman is healthy, I can see a simliar move through the system.
GreenBeret7 June 2nd, 2009 at 3:03 pm
S.o.S.
June 2nd, 2009 at 2:42 pm
S.o.S. = H.E.L.P.

That old dog, new tricks is only for those that couldn’t do tricks in the first place. It’s more politically correct than calling them morons and idiots.
——————-

Got it. It can also mean Sultan of Swat GB.

lol. My bad being that your always there for answers. What would that make me? Ill just stick to Old and knowledgable gb.

————————————————————

Hey…I don’t have all the answers, but, I have stayed at Holiday Inn Express often.

I know….that’s old stuff, but, there may be people who’ve never seen me spread the BS. I learned long ago that if you don’t know the answer, make it up. If you get caught doing something wrong….deny…deny…deny.

As you can see….I’ve answered your question and never said a word. The Derek Jeter Of The sports Boards.
Patrick June 2nd, 2009 at 3:03 pm
I like your take on the bullpen Wave.

However, as optimistic as I am, I still want Huston Street. I don’t think his salary will be prohibitive to the Yankees. Honestly I’d rather the Yankees trade for Huston Street if it means they don’t sign Holliday or Bay
m June 2nd, 2009 at 3:03 pm
vin,

Here’s something special for you. Watch the sick posterizing at the end.

http://tinyurl.com/ozkplx
Nick in SF June 2nd, 2009 at 3:04 pm
Rob NY: my reply was eaten.

Maybe I’m the one who’s missing something, but how is it a guarantee that a player signed with another team will hit FA? Can’t they extend him if they like him?
MaineYankee June 2nd, 2009 at 3:04 pm
I’m not saying I like Veras in the BP but they did turn Bruney into a very usefull pitcher.

That’s not saying it will turn out the same but they may see things we can’t with him.

Two years ago I didn’t think Bruney served much purpose and now we can’t wait for him to return.
C June 2nd, 2009 at 3:05 pm
Cmon guys Vote FOR tex hes 94k behind ugly youk
Patrick June 2nd, 2009 at 3:06 pm
Maybe so SJ44 but McAllister doesn’t have extensive work to do on his mechanics and he’s already pitched a lot of minor league innings. McAllister’s progression through the minors has been perfect so far, he’s dominated every level while pitching a lot of innings. If he continues on this path he will be major league ready very soon and able to throw 200 innings.

A lot has to go right for Brackman to be on the same path.
SJ44 June 2nd, 2009 at 3:07 pm
Wave,

It doesn’t have to be a stellar bullpen. It can’t be this bad though and win.

You really trust Jose Veras, Phil Coke and David Robertson to pitch well in the playoffs or World Series? That’s an awfully optimistic viewpoint.

They do need another arm. Whether that’s Street, Chad Qualls, Betancourt or someone else, unless Mark Melancon emerges the second half of the year as a real stopper, the pen isn’t reliable enough to trust in playoff deciding games.
Zach in Port Jeff June 2nd, 2009 at 3:07 pm
I’m ashamed to be asking this, but can anyone recount how Alex vs. Francessa Round II went?
YankeeRay June 2nd, 2009 at 3:09 pm
I agree with Mike in the fact that the best way to maximize the talent on this team is for Joba to go to the pen and for Hughes and Wang to both start.
I wouldn’t do this though for another couple of weeks until they are 100% sure that Wang is ready and that Hughes can handle the load.
Joba is headed to the pen anyway so let him log another 30-50 innings before making the move.
This allows us not to trade away young talent for an 8th inning guy. If we keep winning like this then stay this way.
Next year Andy comes off the payroll so Wang,Joba and Hughes are all in the rotation.
We can either trade for a reliever then or one of our younger guys will have developed.
Best of all worlds for all involved except Andy has to go away next year.
Brandon ? Is Berroa really starting today ???? June 2nd, 2009 at 3:09 pm
“Here’s something special for you. Watch the sick posterizing at the end.”

Oh that’s smart piss off the sleeping giant. Get’em DWIGHT !
GreenBeret7 June 2nd, 2009 at 3:12 pm
SJ44
June 2nd, 2009 at 3:02 pm
Patrick,

That’s unlikely to happen.

He may end up at Tampa for the second half of this season.

If he does, and pitches well, he probably starts the next year in Trenton.

Sort of like McAllister’s movement through the season.

They even put DJ Mitchell through a similar growth cycle. If Brackman is healthy, I can see a simliar move through the system.

————————————————————

Have you seen Phelps and Marshall pitch, yet? Those are the next two coming through the pipeline, though Marshall is a bit further away, because of his age. Very impressive for two youngsters. They have a clue and the pitches to do well. I’ve seen good things from Noesi and Banuelos, too. Banuelos is just a baby, like Marshall.
Wave Your Hat June 2nd, 2009 at 3:14 pm
SJ44-

No I’m not supporting Veras. My guess is when Bruney gets back Veras will get the short straw. I do think Robertson and Coke could turn out to be very good, though. They have the potential, I think.

And remember, in the playoffs, one or more of Joba, Wang, Hughes and Pettitte could be in the pen.

I’m counting on Bruney getting back. If he doesn’t, that changes the equation some.

Patrick-

So far, Damon and Matsui have combined for 17 HR and (yes, I know) 50 RBIs. That’s a lot to replace. If you don’t get Bey or Holliday (and I’m not supporting getting either one, necessarily), where’s the production going to come from next year? It’s not there that I see.
Christina - Pictures from the Scranton WB Game- Melancon and Shelley! June 2nd, 2009 at 3:14 pm
Zach in Port Jeff June 2nd, 2009 at 3:07 pm

I’m ashamed to be asking this, but can anyone recount how Alex vs. Francessa Round II went?

———-

Not as good as round one. Very little screaming and he did let Alex talk for a little bit.

I tried getting through and it rang but I never got put on. I had things I needed to do so I hung up. Mike probably would have just yelled at me and called me stupid anyhow.
Joe June 2nd, 2009 at 3:15 pm
M,

Both
SJ44 June 2nd, 2009 at 3:16 pm
GB,

I haven’t been to Charleston yet this year. I’ve been too busy with my nephew.

Tampa is in Jupiter for 4 games this week. Depending on how the week goes, I’m hoping to catch 2 of those games this week.

My nephew heads to KC tomorrow for a workout with the Royals. Tentatively, I’m shooting for a Thursday and Saturday run to Jupiter to check out those games.

Hopefully, I’m able to do it.
Brandon ? Is Berroa really starting today ???? June 2nd, 2009 at 3:16 pm
Christina I could prank call him for you
Nick in SF June 2nd, 2009 at 3:19 pm
Actually, Joba has pitched about 53 innings and we’re about 1/3 through the season. So the ‘he’s going to the bullpen anyway’ argument runs up against the Yankees’ plan to get him all the way to his innings limit. Maybe he goes to the bullpen in the second half of September? Maybe not until the postseason? Maybe not at all?

We’ll see. But in the month of June, not gonna happen.
GreenBeret7 June 2nd, 2009 at 3:20 pm
The improvement in Brackman’s numbers from the Winter Leagues to what I’ve seen of him this year has been huge. He’s had two games where his control was off. The last game was 4 walks…so what? Pettitte just finished a game with 5 walks in 5 innings.

Brackman’s improvement in command has been exceptional. The 10 walk game was a fluke. He’s hitting 96-99 consistantly and has hit 100 MPH a few times.
Christina - Pictures from the Scranton WB Game- Melancon and Shelley! June 2nd, 2009 at 3:20 pm
Brandon ? Is Berroa really starting today ???? June 2nd, 2009 at 3:16 pm

Christina I could prank call him for you

——-

lol- go ahead Brandon, but make sure you tell him how atrocious he is and that Jobber is a starter just as much as Andy Pettitte is.
bru June 2nd, 2009 at 3:20 pm
i would not trade wang for an outfielder.

we have debth for the 1st time in years.

with joba & hughes learning & on pitch counts & hughes still being a question mark even though i think he is turning the corner all it would take is one injury to a starter & hughes not being ready to turn this rotation into a problem.

our pitching debth is a huge advantage.why turn it into a disadvantage??

trade for a reliever & outfielder or just a reliever & hope gardner/swisher/melky will do.if not trade for a bat.

if our pen fixes itself we might only need to trade for a bat.

point being is we might not need a bat yet.
we have enough offense.

i would go for the throat & get some bullpen help.
Wave Your Hat June 2nd, 2009 at 3:21 pm
Here’s another bullpen thought. I think the Yanks should consider using Rivera more.

Although the Yanks’ run scored differential has not been huge so far, I believe that is going to change going forward with all our hitters back.

That will mean fewer save opportunities for Mo. To hold him back for just those opportunities is a huge waste of our by far best bullpen pitcher.

Case in point. I would have pitched Mo for sure on Sunday. He had only pitched once in a week. Pitching him in tie games on the road makes sense to me, because you have to not lose them before you can save them.

Mo needs to get more work, IMO. He’s so much better than any other reliever we have.
bru June 2nd, 2009 at 3:22 pm
the yankees are 2nd in hr’s in baseball.

cashman needs to get bullpen help & keep all of our starters.
MaineYankee June 2nd, 2009 at 3:22 pm
Bod

I saw you recomending some natural things yesterday so I wondered where you learned it from.

I’ve been seeing a Naturopath. I’ve been on long term antibiotics and also using natural things as well.

Was yours chronic or newly contracted? Long term is much more difficult to treat. I have used some chinese herbs but not any right.Allicin helped but quite expensive.

I could write an essay on this from what I’ve been through but I’ll spare you. The reason I mentioned Rocco is because I have been in contact with someone that had played with the Rockies that had to give up baseball because of it. He tried to get in touch with him through some of his contacts in the game but I’m not sure how that went.
MaineYankee June 2nd, 2009 at 3:23 pm
Right now
SJ44 June 2nd, 2009 at 3:24 pm
We are closing in on that time folks…..

That time that makes the LoHud Yankee Blog what it is….

Lineup time!!

That’s right, that time of the day when all the Debbie Downers come on board to tell us how Girardi is throwing away another game with a terrible lineup.

How Joe Torre would have this team 35 games over .500

How, if they lose tonight, it will lead to a catastrophic losing streaks, rendering the rest of the season moot.

How this team is so uptight, they can’t win any games.

Lineup posts are always the best here! lol
DT June 2nd, 2009 at 3:27 pm
GB – did you check out my 1:25 pm post ?

That guy sounds a lot like you – (minus the spelling errors of course)
dennis-costanza June 2nd, 2009 at 3:27 pm
Good afternoon.

Great start for Joba last night. The turns through the rotation have been great. This will greatly aid the bullpen later in the year IMO.

Sj- Amazing game for BC against TX! I hated the result for my Alma Mater however college baseball history.
GB7- Did you move yet? Hope it went the way you wanted it to.
Mel- Congrats on the Lakers.
Nick- Any plays in your sites this eve?

Hope all is well.

-dennis
GreenBeret7 June 2nd, 2009 at 3:27 pm
SJ44
June 2nd, 2009 at 3:16 pm
GB,

I haven’t been to Charleston yet this year. I’ve been too busy with my nephew.

Tampa is in Jupiter for 4 games this week. Depending on how the week goes, I’m hoping to catch 2 of those games this week.

My nephew heads to KC tomorrow for a workout with the Royals. Tentatively, I’m shooting for a Thursday and Saturday run to Jupiter to check out those games.

Hopefully, I’m able to do it.

————————————————————

The Charleston rotation is pretty impressive. The defense has improved a little after the sent Angelini to extended spring training. The offense isn’t good, so the w-l record isn’t much, but, there’s at least 3 and maybe four in the rotation that have something going for them. That’s even after losing Mitchell to Tampa.

As for the Tampa team goes, I’m not sure who, or, even if, there is a catching instructor there, but, they need to have someone….like Wynegar in Tampa to tutor Romine and Montero. Almost anybody would help….except for Matt Nokes, of course.
Clare June 2nd, 2009 at 3:30 pm
SJ44,

I tried to post this before, but it disappeared. (Sorry if this is a duplicate).

Thanks for the reply earlier. I’m glad your nephew is okay and wish him all the best in the draft.

Did you see the interview with Oppenheimer posted on another blog (the name of which probably caused my earlier post to be blocked)? The two most interesting points were 1) that the Yankees now have a budget for the draft and 2) that the Yankees’ picks may be surprising. Oppenheimer seemed to be indicating that they disagreed with some of the rankings that have been made publicly. This is similar to what you were saying earlier, that there are wide disparities in how different teams value and rank prospects.

He also talked about their psych guy as well (although he didn’t call him that).
YankeeRay June 2nd, 2009 at 3:32 pm
Nick in SF
June 2nd, 2009 at 3:19 pm
Actually, Joba has pitched about 53 innings and we’re about 1/3 through the season. So the ‘he’s going to the bullpen anyway’ argument runs up against the Yankees’ plan to get him all the way to his innings limit. Maybe he goes to the bullpen in the second half of September? Maybe not until the postseason? Maybe not at all?

We’ll see. But in the month of June, not gonna happen.

——

Nick, another 50 innings would take Joba into July as a starter and right along the lines of August 1st as Mike said.
I’m not here to back Mike but I do think that we will be stronger down the stretch with Joba in the pen and not having to trade away our depth for an 8th inning guy.
Not so different from what Santana did going from pen to rotation.
Usually these things work themselves out and either one of our starters will get hurt and Wang comes back in or one of either Hugehs or Joba wil not perform as expected.
Either way we have the depth to do whatever we want and next year 3/5 of our rotation will be home grown and young.
Future is very bright for us.
GreenBeret7 June 2nd, 2009 at 3:34 pm
DT
June 2nd, 2009 at 3:27 pm
GB – did you check out my 1:25 pm post ?

That guy sounds a lot like you – (minus the spelling errors of course)

————————————————————

If he spelled more than 10% of the words correctly….it ain’t me.

Yeah, I read it. I didn’t write it, but, I should have.
Brandon ? Is Berroa really starting today ???? June 2nd, 2009 at 3:36 pm
Damn rain.
m June 2nd, 2009 at 3:36 pm
Dennis,

Thanks.

Did you guys see this Simmons article on Ortiz? It has the jump-starting the ovaries he doesn’t have line.

Simmons thinks Ortiz is closer to 36-37 than 33.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/story?id=4223584
NJ June 2nd, 2009 at 3:37 pm
its not going to rain for the game its going to be a thunder storm at 4pm and thats it.
vin June 2nd, 2009 at 3:37 pm
Thanks for the link, Mel. Cool stuff. Can’t wait until Thursday.
Ninja Burglar June 2nd, 2009 at 3:38 pm
Jobber belongs in center field.
GreenBeret7 June 2nd, 2009 at 3:39 pm
dennis-costanza
June 2nd, 2009 at 3:27 pm
Good afternoon.

GB7- Did you move yet? Hope it went the way you wanted it to.

Hope all is well.

-dennis

————————————————————

Afternoon, Dennis. All is well, here. All of the streets gets washed daily. A LOT.

Yes, now living in Midway…..which is ridiculous. It’s not midway to anywhere. Not a bad place, but, sure is a long ride for dinner, pizza, baseball….women. I like getting married once or twice a week.
Rob NY -- 2009 The Road to Redemption June 2nd, 2009 at 3:39 pm
Well this explains why Francessa is a bad Yankee fan and a terrible radio host:

“We’re talking about this year, don’t tell me about the next 5 years I don’t care. What is the best use of pitchers this year?”

The guy is arguing that you can’t bring in a setup man because the magical 8th inning has broken lesser men than Huston Street. The only thing left to do is have Knight Chamberlain, lord of the land come and take the reigns of the 8th inning dragon. He’s a 5 inning pitcher and “not that I’m trying to discount last night but unless he pitches 5 or 6 8 inning games in a row this won’t stop.”

Why do people think that winning the world series this year is more important than having the best starter in baseball for years to come? I’m going to have to start listening to 1050 from here on out.
MaineYankee June 2nd, 2009 at 3:40 pm
dennis-costanza

Good afternoon dennis.

Are you keeping warm on the island? Been quite cool so far.

Not sure if you go to any games at Portland but they are playing Trenton this weekend. I’m hoping to go to at least one game.
Kevin in the 908 June 2nd, 2009 at 3:44 pm
Rob the answer is simple: this is New York and the Yankees have not won a World Series since 2000. The mission statement of the Yankees is to win a WS every single year and if moving Joba to the bullpen is the only thing keeping us from winning it this year (hypothetically speaking) we should and must do it.
KGsturnz0r217 June 2nd, 2009 at 3:45 pm
“Brackman is going to be 24 this year, is on the 40 man roster, and is only in A-ball.

He has a ton of moving parts, control problems galore and has a low chance of reaching his potential

Why would you keep him and trade Betances?”

Why wouldn’t you keep both of them

especially in a trade for Huston Street????1!!?

You develop talents like Dellin and Brackman, so that you can trade them for a stud position prospect like Hambone or D young (at the time)
MaineYankee June 2nd, 2009 at 3:46 pm
YankeeRay

I think it was last week Francessa was saying he would be in the BP by the Allstar break.

You’ll notice his arguement can be fluid to make his points work.
Patrick June 2nd, 2009 at 3:46 pm
“So far, Damon and Matsui have combined for 17 HR and (yes, I know) 50 RBIs. That’s a lot to replace. If you don’t get Bey or Holliday (and I’m not supporting getting either one, necessarily), where’s the production going to come from next year? It’s not there that I see. ”

Yes that’s a very good point, the Yankees will certainly need to get another outfielder. I’m just not a fan of signing another big time free agent like Bay/Holliday. They will both command a pretty big chunk of change.

An outfield of Melky, Jackson and Swisher is not going to cut it. I hope the Yanks can make some type of trade for an OF rather than sign a big name.
Rob NY -- 2009 The Road to Redemption June 2nd, 2009 at 3:47 pm
And Kevin what if that means missing out on the world series altogether in the future? We aren’t allowed let alone supposed to be thinking about the long term ramifications of such a stupid move? There are relievers to be had that wouldn’t be the equivalent of trading our 2nd best starter for a middle reliever.
DT June 2nd, 2009 at 3:49 pm
“If he spelled more than 10% of the words correctly….it ain’t me.
Yeah, I read it. I didn’t write it, but, I should have.”

GB –
I wasn’t sure, I thought maybe you traded in the seeing-eye for a proof-reading dog.
m June 2nd, 2009 at 3:50 pm
vin,

NP.

Okay, guys. Enjoy the rest of the day. Hopefully, weather won’t be an issue.

Go, Detroit.
dennis-costanza June 2nd, 2009 at 3:50 pm
Mel- I saw the article. I agree he maybe 37. However he most likely is a 37 year old that was on PHD’s.

GB7- LOL. I have never been to Midway. Hopefully it is close enough for us to meet for a beer SAV next winter.

Maine Yankee- Freezing so far but today is great. I am at the Armoury right now and then jumping on the 415 ferry to Diamond Cove.

-dennis
Pat M June 2nd, 2009 at 3:52 pm
Wave, This bullpen may get the club to October, however it will not deliver a Championship…..Cashman has not come this far not to address the pen….So he has to and will upgrade it somehow….Now this is not a popular concept and under no cirrcumstances am I advocating this, but if the club doesn’t find the needed arms via trades, then Joba will be going to the pen…..I never beieved for one moment during the off season that the Yankees were going to restrict or cap their payroll….Winning fills seats, especially new 1.5 billion dollar Stadiums….The Yanks will never have a payroll south of 200 million…They must make the Postseason and not just a token appearence….Cashman’s tenure is on the line this season, plus time is running out on Jeter, Mo, Posada & Pettite….It’s a must win season, so whatever needs to be done will be done…..
MaineYankee June 2nd, 2009 at 3:56 pm
Patrick

You may recall that people worried how the Yankees were going to replace Giambi and Abreu’s bats this year. As you can see that has worked out well so far.

I think it is premature to be concerned about next year.

The Yankees have made a big commitment with a new stadium and I can’t forsee them not putting a good product on the field.

Also I’m not sure they will be content going into next year with Swisher as the starting RF.
bru June 2nd, 2009 at 3:57 pm
ask francessa if joba goes to the pen will joba’s replacement in the rotation get him the ball?

what is the difference between joba in the rotation vs his replacement & joba in the pen vs his replacement?

it is not all about closing the game out.it is also about getting the ball to the bullpen..

francessa thinks that whoever replaces joba in the rotation will get joba the ball every time,joba will close out every game & joba will pitch every game.

we are talking about the 8th inning only for the most part because if we use joba for more than an inning he might be lost for 2 days.

the object of the game is to get 27 outs & i would much rather have joba on the mound for 18-24 of those outs compared to 3-6 of them.

the reality is you wan’t your better pitchers out there for as many out as possible that is why the mets,jays,kc are better off when santanna,halladay,groenke pitch as many innings as possible.

i don’t know if any other pitcher on the yankees can go into boston & outduel becket 1-0 like joba once did & get the ball to the bullpen.

the red sox have a great bullpen but their starting pitching has been bad plus they are lucky to be in second place.
the yankees have a bad bullpen but great starting pitching & are in 1st place.

gammons said the yankees are number one because they not only have good pitching but have starting pitching debth.

theo raved about hughes great start a few games back so you can bet your a** they are nervous about our pitching & pitching debth.

joba will be in the pen in a few months anyways.
YankeeRay June 2nd, 2009 at 3:58 pm
MaineYankee
June 2nd, 2009 at 3:46 pm
YankeeRay

I think it was last week Francessa was saying he would be in the BP by the Allstar break.

You’ll notice his argument can be fluid to make his points work.

——

Maine, I hear ya and don’t listen to Mikes timelines. I do think though that August 1st makes sense as he will be near 100 plus innings and if we need the help in the pen then that may be the right time unless he is so dominant that he would push Andy out of a playoff spot which isn’t likely due to the innings cap.
My point is that either way he ends up in pen and thats where I agree with Mike in that you do what you need to do to win this year. Hughes will dictate the short term moves with his performance.
Next year will work itself out.
bodhisattva - OPPC member - Destiny Wears Pinstripes June 2nd, 2009 at 4:16 pm
MaineYankee
June 2nd, 2009 at 3:22 pm
Bod
I saw you recomending some natural things yesterday so I wondered where you learned it from.
I’ve been seeing a Naturopath. I’ve been on long term antibiotics and also using natural things as well.
Was yours chronic or newly contracted? Long term is much more difficult to treat. I have used some chinese herbs but not any right.Allicin helped but quite expensive.
I could write an essay on this from what I’ve been through but I’ll spare you. The reason I mentioned Rocco is because I have been in contact with someone that had played with the Rockies that had to give up baseball because of it. He tried to get in touch with him through some of his contacts in the game but I’m not sure how that went.
==============

Maine,

That’s great that you’ve got a Naturopath to work with.

I’m always wondering why the Yankees, with all their resources, don’t at least give acupuncture to their players.

I hear you on the expense; alternative medicine and shopping for remedies at the health food store can’t be written off or covered by insurance companies in cahoots with the doctors, pharmas and the FDA.

Mine was recently acquired, according to the diagnosis. Who knows, though, really – I grew up around New Jersey’s Great Swamps area – extremely wild and buggy. Our cats wandered freely in and out of the house (they never got it – because cats constantly constantly clean themselves, unlike dogs, who are more vulnerable), hung out with us on the beds, etc. Everyone’s different, as well.

I’m sure your naturopath is checking for any contra-indications w/antibiotic & health remedies.

Don’t know if you’ve heard of Qi Gong, or medical qi gong, but it’s a transformative form of exercise for health – provided one keeps it up. It’s deceptively easy – not aerobic – the trick is sticking w/it. The more one does it, the more oxygen the body creates. Even some mainstream hospitals are starting to use it, like Mount Sinai in NYC.

Sorry about your friend/former ballplayer. A friend of mine who was a first violinist had to put the instrument down because of lyme, but she recovered and is playing again, which is nice and hopeful.
Voodoo Chile June 2nd, 2009 at 4:23 pm
In the fields the bodies burning

As the war machine keeps turning
sunny615 June 3rd, 2009 at 9:00 pm
!http://mysite.verizon.net/sunny615/me.jpg!
sunny615 June 3rd, 2009 at 9:01 pm
!http://nysuperblog.com/wp-cont.....n-arod.jpg!
sunny615 June 3rd, 2009 at 9:03 pm
`test`
@test@
#test#
$test$
%test%
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&test&
*test*
-test-
_test_
+test+
=test=
sunny615 June 3rd, 2009 at 9:04 pm
**test**
!!test!!
@@test@@
##test##
$$test$$
%%test%%
^^teset^^
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–test–
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==test==
sunny615 June 3rd, 2009 at 9:05 pm
!!test
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%%test
^^test
&&test
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sunny615 June 3rd, 2009 at 9:07 pm
~!test
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sunny615 June 3rd, 2009 at 9:08 pm
Rishi
June 3rd, 2009 at 8:14 pm
Clare
June 3rd, 2009 at 8:11 pm
Rishi,

attempted double steal, batter hit Posada on the backswing. Trainer came out, as did TX manager to argue the call. One good thing by the TX announcers was they got out the rulebook, and read the rule about inadvertent contact on the batter’s backswing when a runner is stealing means the runner goes back, but it’s just a strike, not an out on the batter. If it’s intentional it’s an out.
I just learned something new.

*!*! Benny Blanco
June 3rd, 2009 at 8:15 pm

Beckett 4innings 0 hits

Mehdi also in SF
June 3rd, 2009 at 8:15 pm
HEY EVERYONE BECKETT IS THROWING A PERFECT GAME> I HOPE I DIDN’T JINX IT.
sunny615 June 3rd, 2009 at 9:09 pm
Rishi
June 3rd, 2009 at 8:14 pm
Clare
June 3rd, 2009 at 8:11 pm
Rishi,

attempted double steal, batter hit Posada on the backswing. Trainer came out, as did TX manager to argue the call. One good thing by the TX announcers was they got out the rulebook, and read the rule about inadvertent contact on the batter’s backswing when a runner is stealing means the runner goes back, but it’s just a strike, not an out on the batter. If it’s intentional it’s an out.
I just learned something new.

*!*! Benny Blanco
June 3rd, 2009 at 8:15 pm

Beckett 4innings 0 hits

Mehdi also in SF
June 3rd, 2009 at 8:15 pm
HEY EVERYONE BECKETT IS THROWING A PERFECT GAME> I HOPE I DIDN’T JINX IT.

##
sunny615 June 3rd, 2009 at 9:09 pm
test
sunny615 June 3rd, 2009 at 9:10 pm
test again
sunny615 June 3rd, 2009 at 9:10 pm
more testing
Rishi
June 3rd, 2009 at 8:14 pm
Clare
June 3rd, 2009 at 8:11 pm
Rishi,

attempted double steal, batter hit Posada on the backswing. Trainer came out, as did TX manager to argue the call. One good thing by the TX announcers was they got out the rulebook, and read the rule about inadvertent contact on the batter’s backswing when a runner is stealing means the runner goes back, but it’s just a strike, not an out on the batter. If it’s intentional it’s an out.
I just learned something new.

*!*! Benny Blanco
June 3rd, 2009 at 8:15 pm

Beckett 4innings 0 hits

Mehdi also in SF
June 3rd, 2009 at 8:15 pm
HEY EVERYONE BECKETT IS THROWING A PERFECT GAME> I HOPE I DIDN’T JINX IT.
sunny615 June 3rd, 2009 at 9:11 pm
*!*! what is this?
sunny615 June 3rd, 2009 at 9:11 pm
!*!* crap
sunny615 June 3rd, 2009 at 9:12 pm
*bold*
sunny615 June 3rd, 2009 at 9:12 pm
!*! Benny Blanco
June 3rd, 2009 at 8:15 pm

Beckett 4innings 0 hits
sunny615 June 3rd, 2009 at 9:13 pm
Benny Blanco
June 3rd, 2009 at 8:15 pm

Beckett 4innings 0 hits
sunny615 June 3rd, 2009 at 9:14 pm
*!* off

The LoHud Yankees Blog

A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News

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