Pitching matchups for the Rays series
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Jun 05, 2009 
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Friday: LHP CC Sabathia (5-3, 3.46) vs. LHP David Price (1-0, 3.00), 7:05 p.m., YES
Saturday: RHP Joba Chamberlain (3-1, 3.71) vs. RHP Matt Garza (4-4, 3.67), 1:05 p.m., YES
Sunday: A.J. Burnett (4-2, 4.69) vs. RHP Andy Sonnanstine (4-5, 7.07), 1:05 p.m., YES
Monday: LHP Andy Pettitte (5-2, 4.33) vs. RHP Jeff Niemann (5-4, 3.77), 7:05 p.m., YES
We better beat the crap out of Sonnastine. I’m tired of that guy coming off like some great pitching when, at best, he’s average.
pitching should be pitcher
But Laura Andy S. batted third in the order for them one game this year so you’ll have to accept that he’s a great hitter too!
That looks like it might be the only win in the series, before we go up to the Fenway GraveYard and get swept out again!
5 out by next Friday
Wonder if they will get tonight’s game in?
(never mind that it was only because Maddon screwed up the lineup card before the game and Cleveland’s manager called him on it…)
Kid Yanks = Debbie Downer
Queue the music…
“Wahhh wahhhhhhhh”
Talk around here is that Sonnanstine is pitching for his spot in the rotation every time he goes out there now. So, yeah, he better get rocked.
“We better beat the crap out of Sonnastine. I’m tired of that guy coming off like some great pitching when, at best, he’s average.”
I totally agree. Sonnanstine is a fluke and we should abuse him for once.
“We better beat the crap out of Sonnastine. I’m tired of that guy coming off like some great pitching when, at best, he’s average.”
Unless he’s improved considerably since I last saw him pitch in a game, he’s not anywhere near average.
‘kid yanks’ you are an A1 dipsh!t.
Someone call that guy a WHAAAAAAAAAAAmbulance. We’re in first place today. Who would predict that we’ll be 5 out next week, even if it is possible?
Let’s go Yankees, at least 3 out of the 4 please!
I love how the Rays’ two best pitchers in this series are going up against CC and Joba. Tough draw for them.
Seems to me that the Joba / Garza game will be the key for the Yanks. If they win that, then they should be able to take 3 of 4.
I’d rather see the washed up Pettite in the bullpen and have Hughes starting against Niemann.
Friday and Saturday’s matchups look great, should be some exciting games.
“Who would predict that we’ll be 5 out next week, even if it is possible?”
Only a Rays troll.
“Only a Rays troll.”
Wouldn’t that imply that the Rays have fans? Did they get any of those yet?
I think tonight’s game will be rained out.
“Unless he’s improved considerably since I last saw him pitch in a game, he’s not anywhere near average.”
He was average last year. In the end, it doesn’t matter. He’s the kind of pitcher we should be beating the crap out of every time we see him.
Is there a chance that this game gets played today? the weather looks horrible right now.
“I think tonight’s game will be rained out.”
That’s what many said about Wednesday’s game and they got it in. Think positive!
I’d be shocked if they played tonight – it hasn’t started raining, but it’s supposed to, and heavily too.
Interesting matchup for the first game, whenever it’s played. The Yankees faced Price last year (I forget if it was ST or regular season) and he threw awfully well against them. They’ll need to be patient with him……Of course, I’m confident CC will pitch very well. Joba/Garza is interesting, too………… As to AJ/Sonnenstine, I just want to see AJ continue his solid pitching. It would be nice if the Yankees could do a tad better than they did against Sonnenstine the last time…….of course, this team is a much different team then that one.
Laura, let’s just say that I wouldn’t mind AJ throwing a pie at Watson……..and it wouldn’t be made up of whipped cream.
Yanks going to give David Price a welcome to the Majors!!!!! We own Tampa!! Lets go!!!!
No way they get the game in tonight, there is a solid sheet of rain from here to Pittsburgh.
Here’s a pretty detailed forecast for the weather tonight at the stadium:
http://newstadiuminsider.com/
Seems to think they’ll play.
“Wouldn’t that imply that the Rays have fans? Did they get any of those yet?”
Believe it or not, they are building a fan base here. Several people I know who were sox and Yanks fans have become Rays fans. Yes, they could not have been true Yanks fans, but still. Dick Vitale, even, used to call himself a Yankee fan, and is now the most public Rays fan.
I will agree that they are not filling the Trop, but it is in a truly horrid location for a lot of potential fans to get to. As well as being a pathetic stadium. Also, check out the empty Yankee Stadium of the 80′s when the Yanks were a decent team with a high payroll. Not too much different than you see in St. Pete right now.
“In a separate move, the Rockies called up outfielder Carlos Gonzalez, one of their acquisitions in the Matt Holliday deal. So far, Gonzalez has an OPS over 1.000 in Triple A.”
Young, athletic, fast, why is it we can’t land players like that.
so now we start the complaining with pitching match-ups and not even wait for the line-ups to be posted!!
We all know how well those predictions work out
“Laura, let’s just say that I wouldn’t mind AJ throwing a pie at Watson……..and it wouldn’t be made up of whipped cream.”
LOL! I have a feeling AJ’s thinking the same thing.
GB, thanks for the info about AJ’s suspension. Can he stay in the clubhouse?
Is grammar school out early today? Its usually later in the day for the idiot prediction posts to show up here.
Those are usually reserved for the game threads when the lineups are put out.
“Young, athletic, fast, why is it we can’t land players like that.”
Ajax says hey.
Be interesting to see if Gonzalez has it figured out this time around. He was hitting quite well in the PCL this year. Lot of guys pitch well in the PCL though.
Brandon.. Hughes to Mo (teach me that cutter) DAS IT !
June 5th, 2009 at 11:15 am
“In a separate move, the Rockies called up outfielder Carlos Gonzalez, one of their acquisitions in the Matt Holliday deal. So far, Gonzalez has an OPS over 1.000 in Triple A.”
Young, athletic, fast, why is it we can’t land players like that.
————————————————————
Because the Yankees don’t trade players like Matt Holliday.
Debatable whether tonight’s game even happens. I’d just push everyone back a day, I guess. It wouldn’t hurt to skip Joba to keep his innings down, but you’d like to give him a chance to build on the game he pitched last time out.
“Ajax says hey.
Be interesting to see if Gonzalez has it figured out this time around. He was hitting quite well in the PCL this year. Lot of guys pitch well in the PCL though”
I know. I mean by trade.
He’s been playing like a 5 tool OF in AAA. Should be interesting.
Brandon.. Hughes to Mo (teach me that cutter) DAS IT !
June 5th, 2009 at 11:15 am
“In a separate move, the Rockies called up outfielder Carlos Gonzalez, one of their acquisitions in the Matt Holliday deal. So far, Gonzalez has an OPS over 1.000 in Triple A.”
Young, athletic, fast, why is it we can’t land players like that.
—————————————————-
Because by the time the Yankees pick that type of player is taken.
Betsy
June 5th, 2009 at 11:16 am
GB, thanks for the info about AJ’s suspension. Can he stay in the clubhouse?
————————————————————
I don’t think so, but, not sure. I know the suspended players usually sit in the stands. Randy or SJ could probably give you the correct answer to that. Don’t ask Brandon, though. He’ll tell you that until Tabata is back on the Yanks, no suspended player is allowed near the dugout.
j/k Brandon.
““In a separate move, the Rockies called up outfielder Carlos Gonzalez, one of their acquisitions in the Matt Holliday deal. So far, Gonzalez has an OPS over 1.000 in Triple A.”
Young, athletic, fast, why is it we can’t land players like that.”
Teams tend to hold onto those players
What do you guys thinks Colorado would want for him ?
With Hughes currently on the 25 man and in the bullpen, I wonder why AJ doen’t just take the suspension now since a replacement starter is already on the big league roster? Is it 100% up to him, or does the team have some say in the decision to appeal?
The tent went up early today and the whining clowns have returned.
Couldn’t resist.
“Lot of guys pitch well in the PCL though”
My bad. Meant to say a lot of guys HIT well in the PCL.
When you are suspended, you can’t sit in the dugout or the bullpen. You can work out prior to the game but, have to leave the ballpark by the time the game begins.
“What do you guys thinks Colorado would want for him ?”
Talent for talent, and since they are in a rebuilding mode they would likely want a few prospects. Essentially we would be giving up someone similar Ajax, Romine etc. There wouldn’t be much of a point.
Brandon,
Colorado didn’t trade Matt Holliday to then trade one of the guys they wanted in the deal. A young, cost controlled OF.
I guess if the Yankees want to trade Hughes and Montero, they can get Gonzalez. Absent that, there is no incentive for the Rockies to trade him.
Hughes should take AJ spot now and get some work in then when he returns put Joba in the pen.Would work nicely for this team.
I’m guessing they’ll call this game by 4pm today
http://weather.msn.com/local.a.....ronx%2c+NY
i wonder how the rotation would be set up if the game is rained out
What type of player is Carlos Gonzalez? I, admitedly, know little about him. The ‘Baseball Cube’ doesn’t seem to think he’s a “five tool” guy, considering they gave him a ’50′ as his speed grade.
“When you are suspended, you can’t sit in the dugout or the bullpen. You can work out prior to the game but, have to leave the ballpark by the time the game begins.”
Who will do the walk off pies? A.J. can’t start his suspension until someone is properly trained.
“What do you guys thinks Colorado would want for him ?”
A close to MLB ready, young, high end pitching prospect.
Thanks, SJ……..AJ should go into the stands and if the Yankees win, throw a pie from there, lol.
No way do I want AJ just taking his suspension – it’s ridiculous that he even got suspended (the umps thought Padilla threw at Tex on purpose, that’s why they didn’t warn the Yankees) – nevermind for the same amount of days that Zambrano got. On another board I visit, people are suggesting the Yankees are wimps for not being vocal about this, saying that they should just air it out and let MLB fine them if they are inclined. I kind of wish the Yanks would do that…..but I don’t think it would accomplish anything, so is there a point?
SJ, PAT M or Randy. Not sure if you saw the bos score from the Tampa Yanks game or not. Romine had his 2nd or 3rd catcher’s interference error this year and last year had 3 or 4. I realize that he’s too close to the batter, but, is this because he’s trying to catch the pitches before they break into the dirt, or, is it for some other reason. Whatever it is, it happens too often with him and needs to be corrected.
I read that stadium insider report from Wave, I hope they don’t do that. Last time we played through a game like that we lost Posada.
If anyone has any interest in the upcoming baseball draft, check out Keith Law’s latest chat: http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/.....t_id=26795
He also has some interesting ideas on Baseball economics. Free market for the win!
DT, AJ should start his pie-making lessons now…..perhaps Swish would like to take up the job. However, it would be funnier if Pena or a quieter person than Swish did it – no one would expect it, lol.
Not sure if you saw the ***box*** score
Betsy
June 5th, 2009 at 11:35 am
DT, AJ should start his pie-making lessons now…..perhaps Swish would like to take up the job. However, it would be funnier if Pena or a quieter person than Swish did it – no one would expect it, lol.
————————————————————
as long as they don’t bring up Shelley Duncan and let him do it. The Yankee DL is too long, now.
SJ, Your nephew has a mention on the Yanks draft piece by MLB. That would be cool..
http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com.....8;c_id=nyy
I would think pie duties would fall to Swisher.
GB,
Seems to me Romine is standing too close to the batter. Why? No idea.
It shouldn’t matter as far as catching breaking pitches in the dirt is concerned. Basically, he’s got to move around better back there because a catcher can’t “cheat” (move closer to the plate or the batter) to catch sliders in the dirt. Its all about getting your body in front of the ball and surrounding it.
Its pretty unusual for a catcher to have that many catchers interference penalties in one season.
funny how that piece fails to mention Jeter, Posada, and Mo as Yankees past draft picks.
He’s probably a long shot for the Yankees right now.
Unless certain signability guys the Yankees like don’t fall to them, and he’s still on the board at #29, I can’t see that happening.
You never know how things shake out draft night but, at this time, its unlikely he will be a Yankee.
“We’ve been given a budget by ownership this year, and we’re going to work within that budget. We have parameters that we’re going to use. You have to be a little more cautious and you have to pay attention to certain players’ wishes and needs. It might not be what we value that player as. If some of these guys are going to hold true to what they’re looking for, you’re going to see a few more kids roll into college this year.” — Oppenheimer
Hmm from that it sounds like the Yankees aren’t going to go above slot that much; similar to last year’s draft. That’s somewhat discouraging, the Yanks need to have a good year from a farm system standpoint after last year’s disaster.
ST. LOUIS — St. Louis Cardinals manager Tony La Russa is suing the social-networking site Twitter, claiming an unauthorized page that used his name to make light of drunken driving and two Cardinals pitchers who died damaged his reputation and caused emotional distress.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=4230602
“What do you guys thinks Colorado would want for him”
McCallister and Romine ?
SJ44,
Can you give us any update on the possibility of the Pirates drafting him? I understand if you can’t but I’m interested to know.
“A close to MLB ready, young, high end pitching prospect.”
It’s not like he’s Andrew McCutchen or Colby Rasmus… I doubt that’s the tag. You saw what McClouth was traded for ?
Anyway I’ve had my eye on this kid for awhile, IDK what they’d want but I doubt the price tag is that high. I do wonder if IPK/Robertson/Miranda would entice Colorado.
http://mlb.mlb.com/media/video.....id=3155006
SJ44
June 5th, 2009 at 11:40 am
I would think pie duties would fall to Swisher.
GB,
Seems to me Romine is standing too close to the batter. Why? No idea.
It shouldn’t matter as far as catching breaking pitches in the dirt is concerned. Basically, he’s got to move around better back there because a catcher can’t “cheat” (move closer to the plate or the batter) to catch sliders in the dirt. Its all about getting your body in front of the ball and surrounding it.
Its pretty unusual for a catcher to have that many catchers interference penalties in one season.
————————————————————
Wasn’t real sure if he was “cheating to get the ball before it broke into the dirt or not. He caught about 55 games last year and about 35 this year. That’s close to 6 such errors in a half a season. I know that he’s also had a ton of passed balls in his season and a half….18 last year and 5 this year (78 total games caught…just checked the exact numbers). PAT M has said that his feet are slow and, althiugh he has pretty decent footspeed, not the most agile or quick behind the plate.
““What do you guys thinks Colorado would want for him”
McCallister and Romine ?”
Romine/IPK/Miranda/Nova + PTBNL I wouldn’t oppose that.
Patrick,
I wouldn’t necessarily believe what any MLB exec says this close to the draft.
If a guy the Yankees really like drops to them, money isn’t going to be an issue for their first round pick. It may impact later rounds but, not the early rounds.
Nothing new to report on the Pittsburgh front.
At this time, teams are in their war rooms creating their board. They rank every player they have a report on from #1-1500. Once their board is set up, usually by Sunday afternoon, they begin reaching out to players and their advisors.
We are in a hold pattern until that time.
Game should get an early call. Rain looks heavy and all day.
These next 7 games against the Rays and Red Sox will help to prove whether these Yankees are legitimate or not. To be honest, I have my doubts that they’re up to the challenge; but I hope I’m wrong. The Yanks are 2-3 against the Rays and 0-5 against the Sox. I think it’s important for them to prove they can beat these teams.
Seems like a pretty frantic process for the teams. They assemble their board then have 2 days to figure out a player’s signing demands?
I hope they call the game…….they tried playing on a similarly miserable night against Boston and they lost Posada. Even if no one gets hurt, I think it’s just a bad idea all around.
Brandon,
That propsosal wouldn’t even get a return phone call.
You don’t trade your franchise player for a package of guys, one of whom (Gonzalez) is a cost controlled, potential star and then turn around and trade him for lesser prospects. Just not how its done in the game.
Patrick,
In that interview Oppenheimer also said that the budget may not be final as well as things change after the draft.
If Brandon was the Yankee GM – the Yankee roster would be turned over 3 times a year in trades….
It’s like having Jack McKeon in our midst.
“Romine/IPK/Miranda/Nova + PTBNL I wouldn’t oppose that.”
I’d guess the Colorado GM would provide enough opposition for both of you.
SJ, I know nothing about the draft or the kids involved, but do you know who the Yankees have their eyes on?
Patrick,
Yes, its a crazy system. At this point, teams have about 4-6 players they are considering with their first pick.
You run through all the logical scenarios, look to gain consensus from all of your personnel people on the options, and then move onto to talks with the player advisors.
I did find out an interesting nugget from one of the scouts I know yesterday. Next to Strasburg, Tony had the most consistent grades from scouts in their reports to MLB.
What that means is, there are no ups and downs in the reports. Pretty much consistent across the board. For teams looking at getting a “safe” pick, you like seeing consistent scouting grades on a player.
That’s a positive for the kid as the process winds down.
The rest of it is a combination of luck (the right team choosing you) and business, because the business of the game always is involved.
When it comes to a first round pick, a team was to be as secure as possible with the selection. Secure he’s the right guy talent-wise and secure he’s going to sign.
The next 7 days won’t tell us anything we don’t already know about this team. Its a very good team.
Don’t your let needs for “proof” be passed off as the team needs for “proof”. Regardless of the outcome of the games, the season isn’t rising and falling in Early June.
Betsy:
The guy they would love to have is H.S. lefty Matthew Purke, who hits 96mph on the gun, but he probably won’t make it to them. Another target is Slade Heathcott, a 5 tool H.S. outfielder from Texas. Its also possible that rhp Tanner Scheppers falls to them at #29. I just hate it that Boston picks 1 slot ahead of them.
SJ, I seen one report having Tony in the top ten, I think it was 8 or 9. Where do you see him going?
How come you can’t trade draft picks in baseball as in the other sports? I don’t mean because it it not allowed by the CBA. I mean why conceptually won’t they allow it?
For the Nationals this year, wouldn’t they get about 5 high end prospects from a team that wants Strasburg?
If Tonight’s game gets rained out… that means CC will be pitching on 1 week rest tomorrow.
Also lines up Pettitte, Wang, CC against Boston
and Joba, Burnett, Pettitte vs. the Mets
Betsy,
The Yankees are looking at some of the high end pitchers who may fall due to signability issues. A kid like Mike Locke from Arizona St. for example. Its unlikely though Locke gets past Oakland at #13.
They are also looking at several HS OF. A kid from Texas, Mike Trout from NJ, and David Renfroe from Mississippi.
They also have been on a bunch of LH pitchers (the names escape me right now) in recent weeks.
Where is DEBORAH?!?!?!?!?!
SJ44
June 5th, 2009 at 11:59 am
The next 7 days won’t tell us anything we don’t already know about this team. Its a very good team.
Don’t your let needs for “proof” be passed off as the team needs for “proof”. Regardless of the outcome of the games, the season isn’t rising and falling in Early June.
The Mets could use that advice about now
I am not comfortable with Wang starting against boston. Just not. I know he has great career numbers against them, but that was then and this is now.
So, sine I know nothing:
What do you guys think about letting Hughes start in place of Wang in Boston? What should we do?
I have no idea where he is going to go. Its too early to project it.
Pittsburgh at #4, KC at #12, Milwaukee at #26, Seattle at #27, the Yankees at #29, Tampa at #30, and Colorado at #32 are all possibilities.
MLB doesn’t allow for draft picks to be traded because they are fearful the big market franchises would make deals and stockpile the picks.
Personally, I think its ridiculous because the bad teams would get healthier faster if they could trade their picks.
Could you imagine what the Nationals could get for the #1 pick this year? Probably 4-5 players and that would make them competitive faster than just holding onto the pick and taking Strasburg.
DT
June 5th, 2009 at 11:54 am
If Brandon was the Yankee GM – the Yankee roster would be turned over 3 times a year in trades….
It’s like having Jack McKeon in our midst.
————————————————————
I was thinking “Trader Frank” Lane. The geezers on here would know him. He traded Rocky Colavito to the Tigers for Harvey Kuean. Kuenn had one the batting title and Colavito had won the home run title that year and after one year traded Kuenn to SF for willie Kirkland (home run hitting outfielder that didn’t hit home runs). He traded Maris to KC for Woodie Held. Those pale in comparison to some of the 12 and 18 player trades NYY used to make, though.
SJ – That is my thought.
For the Nationals you tie up 20 million (maybe more) for a pitcher (A PITCHER) who always has the potential to get injured. For a club like the Nationals that would be like whiffing the first pick of the football draft on Ryan Leaf. You are screwed for years.
Let the teams line up with players. Imagine the haul. Washington would probably get a teams top 3-5 prospects and young players. They would be so much better so much faster.
SJ, they view Carlos Gonzalez as a franchise player ? Not Tulo ? I mean I like Gonzalez b/c he’s young, can field in the OF, has a bit of pop, franchise player I don’t think that’s what he is at all, serviceable COF is more like it. I’m guessing he’ll be like Choo of the Indians.
Oh, God….If NYY picks Mike Trout, don’t let him be Steve’s kid.
“What do you guys think about letting Hughes start in place of Wang in Boston? What should we do?”
I think that would be the silliest thing to do. The biggest goal for the Yanks right now is to get CMW back to his old self. That will make them a better team.
Losing a game in Boston in June isn’t nearly as critical as stunting Wang’s improvement for the rest of the season.
Good one GB.
Wheelin Dealin Lane even traded managers straight up once. Joe Gordon for Jimmy Dykes.
I wonder who Brandon could get for Girardi?
HUGHES is not starting in Boston!!! My god, do people realize this is going to be a process with Wang?? He needs to continue to start, consistently, whether its the Indians, Red Sox, Rangers, or whoever is playing.
There was an individual on here who said it best yesterday, by saying sometimes you lose the battle to win the war.
So can we please stop with the “Should Phil pitch at Fenway instead of Wang” crap, please?
Seriously do people think? And what thinks Hughes would be a better option at Fenway anyways? Last time he pitched against Boston in NY a few weeks back, he didn’t exactly set the world on fire.
Please, let CMW get a few more starts under his belt before we start this BS.
“SJ, they view Carlos Gonzalez as a franchise player ? Not Tulo ? I mean I like Gonzalez b/c he’s young, can field in the OF, has a bit of pop, franchise player I don’t think that’s what he is at all, serviceable COF is more like it.”
Not to butt in or anything….
I think he was saying that Holliday was the franchise player, and he was traded for young, cost-controlled guys. Why then deal those young guys who may be ready to start proving they can play at the ML level.
Tulowitzki is either a flash in the pan or incredibly injury prone. Looks like a repeat of Bobby Crosby.
I’d love to see them draft a fast athletic OF or a SS.
I know you don’t draft on need but how many high risk high rewards pitchers do they need in their system? All due respect to SJ44′s nephew, but they certainly don’t need to draft a catcher either. Again I know you can never have enough catching, but with Montero, Romine, Cervelli, etc. they should have that position covered.
“I wonder who Brandon could get for Girardi? ”
Maybe he could get Tabata and Ohlendorf back? Not sure if Jim Tracy is the answer in Pittsburgh.
If I were NYY and looking to get an outfielder, I’d be talking to Toronto about Rios. The Toronto fans are now booing him. They may be interested in cutting their loses.
“Not to butt in or anything….
I think he was saying that Holliday was the franchise player, and he was traded for young, cost-controlled guys. Why then deal those young guys who may be ready to start proving they can play at the ML level.”
No problem…. I know he was traded for Holliday but if he brings something I doubt O’Dowd wouldn’t listen. Man I just want a young athletic OF for the future, WHAT’S WRONG IN THAT !
“If I were NYY and looking to get an outfielder, I’d be talking to Toronto about Rios. The Toronto fans are now booing him. They may be interested in cutting their loses.”
GB, you know the first 3 names in thier minds would be Phil Hughes, Austin Jackson, Jesus and then we say no.
You don’t pull Wang out of the rotation after one start.
I know this will fall on deaf ears but, the season isn’t going to be decided next week in Boston.
I know some of you believe that will be the case if they don’t beat the Red Sox but, that’s just not true.
Wang has to get 4-5 starts before you even think about pulling him out of the rotation. That’s if he pitches badly.
Certainly not a guarantee, no matter what the Debbie Downers believe.
Brandon,
Two years ago, Carlos Gonzalez was considered one of the ten best prospects in baseball. When Billy Beane traded for him in the Haren deal, folks thought he was a genius.
When Colorado traded Matt Holliday for him, they were thinking they are getting a potential all star player.
You don’t turn him around to another team for B level prospects. That’s just not how its done.
Tulo isn’t even hitting .250 so far this year and has been awful at SS. He’s not a franchise player.
These proposed deals of yours are the kind of deals ML GM’s would never consider unless they want to lose their jobs.
The Rockies have Dexter Fowler, and excellent young player, in CF. If you put Carlos in left and Brad Hawpe in right, they have the makings of a very good OF.
There isn’t any reason for them to mess with that right now.
Ouch… don’t like the prospect of starting Andy with a balky back and Wang in the first 2 games of the Boston series.
“I’m guessing he’ll be like Choo of the Indians.”
More pop. Less OBP. Better defense.
the yankees plan (i think) against price should be to make him work..a lot…and get into that weak weak ray pen…price has needed 208 pitches to get through his 9 innings so far this year…he has a 17.7 k/9 though…which is nutly
With the improvement of Melky and Gardner along with the relative good health of Damon and Swisher I don’t see the need for another OF.
The only OF addition I see is a healthy Xavier Nady, which will be all they need if he can rehab and come back.
“If I were NYY and looking to get an outfielder, I’d be talking to Toronto about Rios. The Toronto fans are now booing him. They may be interested in cutting their loses.”
I just don’t see TOR doing a deal within the division, especially since they are on the fringes of being in the race. I’d like to get Rios, but I don’t see TOR giving him to us for anything short of our very best players and prospects.
“Ouch… don’t like the prospect of starting Andy with a balky back and Wang in the first 2 games of the Boston series.”
Thought Pettitte was pitching Monday vs. Tampa. I think it’s Wang, Sabathia, Chamberlain in Boston.
Brandon.. Hughes to Mo (teach me that cutter) DAS IT !
June 5th, 2009 at 12:15 pm
“If I were NYY and looking to get an outfielder, I’d be talking to Toronto about Rios. The Toronto fans are now booing him. They may be interested in cutting their loses.”
GB, you know the first 3 names in thier minds would be Phil Hughes, Austin Jackson, Jesus and then we say no.
————————————————————
They may ask, but, they know that the way Rios has hit over the last two seasons, they’d never get that. They’ll have him gone on a salary dump. Not sure of the flaw, but, it doesn’t appear to be effort when you watch him play defense or run the bases.
Miggs,
Its not a good draft for SS. Even the one SS in the draft who is a stud, Grant Green of USC, there is divided thinking as to whether or not he is going to stay at short.
There are two things you can never have enough of in an organization. Pitching and catching. If you have a surplus of either, you can use it in trades to fill weaknesses in your organization.
Its a top heavy pitching draft in the early rounds this year and very light on position players.
Man I just want a young athletic OF for the future, WHAT’S WRONG IN THAT !
++++++++++++++++++++++++
Nothing wrong with THAT. What’s wrong is thinking players that don’t have great value to the Yankees having great value to other teams. Kennedy and Miranda are non-starters.
That you can get back a player of high value for a package of players you don’t mind giving up is a conceit that exists solely in the minds of fans.
“With the improvement of Melky and Gardner along with the relative good health of Damon and Swisher I don’t see the need for another OF.”
Swisher is coming across as being very streaky. I’d like to be able to sit him during his bad spells.
“The only OF addition I see is a healthy Xavier Nady, which will be all they need if he can rehab and come back.”
I hate to be negative, but I’m not convinced that Nady will be able to play the field. His injury sounds pretty darn serious. If he can’t field and is strictly a DH, I don’t think the Yankees need him.
Pettitte is pitching Monday against the Rays. The tentative pitching lineup for Boston, weather permitting, is Wang, Sabathia and Chamberlain.
I think MLB would fear that teams would trade draft picks for money….that would not be good. Couldn’t you see the Marlins trading to the Yanks their number 1 for 10 mil? geez, if that guy is the goods it would be hard for the Nats to turn down 25 mil for that draft pick.
Injury risks aside, the Yankees will do everything they can to get this game in tonight. I doubt they want to use any more off-days. If the game does get called, it won’t be until well after game time (at least 8:30). It’s Friday night, and they are not going to give up on gate/concession sales that easily.
“the yankees plan (i think) against price should be to make him work..a lot…and get into that weak weak ray pen”
Agreed. It’s especially helpful that he’s pitching the 1st game of the series. I’m guessing Cormier is their long reliever.
“The Rockies have Dexter Fowler, and excellent young player, in CF. If you put Carlos in left and Brad Hawpe in right, they have the makings of a very good OF.”
Ryan Spilborghs has dropped off dramatically. These are the type of trades I’d be for trading young prospects. The Yankees never make these moves. Carlos Gonzalez yeh I’d make calls to Colorado and see if his tag goes down.
Steve B,
If tonight’s game gets rained out (likely looking at the forecast), it would push Andy into the Boston series.
DB – I would imagine there would be some construct to prevent teams from “selling” picks.
Let me ask everyone 2 questions:
1) Will you watch of follow this draft
2) Would you watch or follow this draft if there was some way the Yankees could trade for Strasburg (or Bryce Drew in an upcoming year)
“Swisher is coming across as being very streaky. I’d like to be able to sit him during his bad spells.”
Thing about bad spells is that you have to be in one before you know your in one.
Brandon,
What trades don’t the Yankees make? They traded for a better OF last year in Nady.
They don’t trade their franchise guys, unlike Colorado and other teams.
If the Yankees want to put a franchise player, or somebody like Joba, Hughes or Montero on the market, they will be flooded with offers.
They don’t need to make trades like Colorado did with Holliday.
* you’re
Laura, that treamtent he got was the same that Saito got last year to avoid surgery. If a pitcher can get by with that treatment then I can’t see why Nady should not be able to.
One more draft question – would you trade Hughes, Jackson, Montero and Melancon for Strasburg?
Laura – Win together, strike out alone!
June 5th, 2009 at 12:18 pm
“If I were NYY and looking to get an outfielder, I’d be talking to Toronto about Rios. The Toronto fans are now booing him. They may be interested in cutting their loses.”
I just don’t see TOR doing a deal within the division, especially since they are on the fringes of being in the race. I’d like to get Rios, but I don’t see TOR giving him to us for anything short of our very best players and prospects.
————————————————————
He hit about .290 last year and hitting .265 this year. The drop in power and run production over the last two years and the 0-5 with 5 strikeouts last night may by the time to pull the trigger. Mainly it’s the 60 mil owed through 2014 that says he’s gone for a less than fair value trade.
thought AJ was suspended for 6 games…how can he pitch Sunday?
It’s so nasty outside
I’d like to see them replace Andy’s Monday start with Hughes to let Andy’s back rest.
Then, I’d let AJ start his suspension after his Friday, June 12th start against the Mets.
Then, I’d let Andy pitch on the 13th against the Mets, and I’d slot Hughes in again on Sunday, June 14th, and push everybody else back a day.
I’d slot in AJ against the Marlins on the 20th, the first day he’s be eligible after his suspension.
That way, Wang gets two more starts, Hughes gets two starts, Andy gets some rest and AJ doesn’t really miss a rotation turn.
At that point, we evaluate how Wang, Hughes and Andy have done and go from there.
Does that work?
“What trades don’t the Yankees make? They traded for a better OF last year in Nady.”
to get those 5 tool type players, especially in that 23-25 yr. old range.
he appealing the suspension, can pitch until then.
I don’t get how Padilla can still pitch for the Rangers and didn’t get suspended…I thought they released him? So confused by that whole deal. He throws at hitters, everyone knows it (including his teammates) and still only gets a nominal fine.
I thought that was b/c he was released, but he’s still in the rotation and with the team.
five iron, of course I would watch. The problem is that the Yanks get a lot of heat for competitive imbalance. If they allow for trades then it would make it even worse.
They probably would consider it if there was a salary cap.
five iron,
I’m with you on trading draft picks. Would definitely make the process more interesting to the regular fans.
I also think there needs to be a salary structure for draft picks like the NBA, instead of the non-enforced slotting system. Not really sure why there isn’t one, perhaps I’m missing something? Maybe it is tied to baseball’s (players union) reluctance to accept a salary cap?
doesn’t look good for game happening tonite, which really means Wang and Andy pitching to the Sox
great idea wave, only thing is that I don’t think good ol Bob will let the Yanks wait that long to do their appeal. The MLB offices are in NY and the Yanks are at home.
Yes it’s looking like it’s going to be a washout for tonight’s game. I have tickets… so I am praying they will reschedule for a doubleheader this weekend immediately – otherwise, the only other 2 days both teams have free are in sepetember… and I want to go see the new stadium now – Guess I’ll have to wait til my old timers day tickets to see the new stadium …
I wonder if they would schedule a doubleheader with Saturday or sundays game knowing the weather will be good and they can get the games in – ?? I am crossing my fingers…Although I really wanted to see CC pitch tonight… well, I guess we’ll just have to wait and see
five iron from fenway
June 5th, 2009 at 12:26 pm
One more draft question – would you trade Hughes, Jackson, Montero and Melancon for Strasburg?
————————————————————
No, and not just because you can’t trade draft picks. Are you sure that you don’t want to include Chamberlain, Sabathia and Jeter and pay their salaries just to sweeten the pot a little?
DB – Again you would have to have parameters. How about the proposed swap of Montero, Jackson, Hughes and Melancon.
The Yankees would give the Nationals a top of the rotation pitcher in the NL, a potential back of the bullpen guy, one of the best prospects in the majors, and a starting CF. To me this would make the Nationals far better than one starting pitcher.
This would make the Yankees better because they would get a potential ace.
This would make the draft far more relevant and fun for fans everywhere.
“to get those 5 tool type players, especially in that 23-25 yr. old range.”
Not too many teams trading that type unless you are wowing them with Hughes-level young pitchers.
If you want 5 tool, 23-25 year old players, expect to give up a core player. That’s how it works.
The Rockies gave up Matt Holliday, the second best player (next to Helton) in the history of their franchise to get a package of players that included Gonzalez.
That’s the price to get player like Gonzalez and there is no guarantee he’s going to be a great player.
Why would the Yankees engage in such trades when they are competitive every year?
“to get those 5 tool type players, especially in that 23-25 yr. old range.”
If teams like the Rockies don’t hang on to guys like that, then how will they ever expect to field a competitive team? They can’t keep guys like Holliday; Helton, Hampton, and Neagle have hamstrung them in the past.
Perhaps one reason is the Yanks don’t want to get those young unestablished guys because of the win-now mantra. Those young guys deserve better than “fans” booing them, and Francessa criticizing them.
Five iron, there is no reason the Yanks couldn’t make that trade after the Nats sign him. That’s all your blue chippers for a pretty young kid. Huge gamble
are you all talking about this article:
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/swe.....pect-.html
or is this one big coincidence?
GB7 – I am not advocating for the trade. But I would imagine it would take some sort of package like that to get a guy the caliber of Strasburg or Bryce Drew.
The Yankees may not do it, the Nationals may not do it. But it would sure be more interesting if the possibility existed.
You would also have the Dice K phenomena. Assume the trade or something similar. The Yankees would argue we just gutted our farm system for you, we are not paying 30 million on top of that. Strasburg would argue that you just gutted the farm system for me pay me accordingly.
DB, I hope you’re wrong because the key to my strategy is to have the off day on the 15th happen while AJ is suspended so the other pitchers don’t pitch on short rest.
“One more draft question – would you trade Hughes, Jackson, Montero and Melancon for Strasburg”
i know strasburg is great but there is no way i trade those 4 for him…hughes is at the very worst a “nice” cheap cost controlled pitcher with upside to be above average..jackson has 4/5 tool potential….montero’s bat is god-like and melancon could very well be an above average arm in the pen…all that seems like a lot for a guy who has never thrown a pitch in pro ball…
SJ look at our OF, who throws to the plate and reaches it other than Melky, who cuts the gaps other than Gardner…it WOULD BE NICE to have a young athlethic OF for the future. I’M JUST SAYING YOU KNOW ?
Rishi – what does the article say – can’t open it.
I’ll drop the whole thing in and pray nothing blows up:
Redefining ‘prospect’
June 5, 2009 12:32 PM
It’s getting mighty crowded in Colorado’s outfield. Tracy Ringolsby:
Carlos Gonzalez’s time has come.
The left-handed-hitting outfielder acquired as part of the package from Oakland for Matt Holliday will join the Rockies in St. Louis on Friday. The Rockies also have activated right-handed reliever Matt Daley from the disabled list.
–snip–
Manager Jim Tracy is expected to juggle Seth Smith, Gonzalez and switch-hitting Dexter Fowler in left field and center field, ensuring each gets at least five starts a week. Ryan Spilborghs would appear to be in line to become the fifth outfielder.
Gonzalez forced the issue. He is hitting .339 with 10 home runs, 12 doubles, seven triples and 59 RBI in 47 games at Colorado Springs.
“It’s time,” Tracy said of bringing up Gonzalez, who came to the Rockies from the A’s along with closer Huston Street and left-handed pitcher Greg Smith. “At the end of spring I sat in when Clint (Hurdle, former manager) met with the young man, and Carlos has answered all the messages he was given.”
Asked about the crowded outfield, Tracy said, “That will be what I have to figure out. I accept that challenge.”
The good thing is that it really doesn’t matter whether or not Jim Tracy meets that challenge, because the Rockies are going to finish a couple of dozen games out of first place either way. But if Spilborghs is now a fifth outfielder, I suspect that Dan O’Dowd is going to be getting a lot of phone calls, perhaps the first of them from Frank Wren.
It’s not really the Rockies’ five outfielders I wanted to write about, though. Rather, this story — and particularly CarGo’s stats at Colorado Springs — got me to thinking about how we define “prospect.”
My first impulse was to look up Gonzalez in the books about prospects that I keep handy. Gonzalez doesn’t appear in either of them. It took me too long to remember that Gonzalez actually spent significant time in Oakland’s outfield last season, and thus probably didn’t qualify for inclusion in those books.
Sure enough, Gonzalez played in 85 games with the A’s in 2008. He was awful, which is why Billy Beane was willing to trade him. But Gonzalez was regarded as a fine (though flawed) prospect before his struggles with the big club, and he turned 23 just last fall. Isn’t he still a prospect.
Semantics, I know. I suppose this little essay is directed mostly at John Sickels and Baseball America, who publish my go-to prospect guides each spring. Baseball America goes 30 deep in each organization; Sickels goes well into the 30s. As you might guess, once you get past the first dozen or so prospects in an organization, you’re mostly wading through guys who will either never make the majors or, if they do, won’t make much noise.
In the interest of pure utility, then, I will suggest that we — along with the authors of our favorite books about young players — redefine “prospect” to cover any young player who hasn’t yet made a positive impact in the major leagues, but might still.
Verducci on MLB Network referring to RJ’s career…and i quote: “Randy Johnson…his height, his fastball, his mullett”.
I wonder if that will be the title of the Randy Johnson movie, starring none other than Randy Johnson as himself.
“SJ look at our OF, who throws to the plate and reaches it other than Melky, who cuts the gaps other than Gardner…it WOULD BE NICE to have a young athlethic OF for the future. I’M JUST SAYING YOU KNOW ?”
have you given up on ajax?…
And in this young athletic future OF I’d love to pair them w/ Austin Jackson, Melky is showing some signs of stick in the COF, but seriously I’d like to add an athletic 5 tool type that can hit decent and play stellar D, instead of submitting to FAs like Damon, Matsui, Holliday …etc.
“have you given up on ajax?…”
Where did I say that ? I want to pair someone w/ him for the future of this OF. I like defense in the OF for some reason + speed and guys that I know can go 1st to 3rd on the basepaths and throw a guy out on D.
Brandon,
That’s fine but, in order to achieve your goal, you have to give up something.
I’d love for the Yankees to acquire Roy Halliday and Rios. I’d give up just about everybody in the system, except for Joba and Montero, to get them.
But, the reality is, that’s not going to happen.
You have to look at situations and put yourself in the role of the opposing GM and ask, “Would I do that deal”.
That’s how you find out actual value in a trade.
You are asking for what everybody in baseball wants these days. Young, athletic, cost controlled players.
The issue is, what does it take to acquire them and, at least at the present time, the prices are too rich for the Yankees blood.
..Maybe even leap a wall and catch a ball.
Having “young athletic OF’s of the future” mean NOTHING when you are struggling to stay out of last place.
“Having “young athletic OF’s of the future” mean NOTHING when you are struggling to stay out of last place.”
What does that mean ?
“Wang has to get 4-5 starts before you even think about pulling him out of the rotation. That’s if he pitches badly.”
sj44-
i agree totally. this issue with wang on the blog has become an iq test in a way. some people just don’t get the concept he has to rehab at the mlb level because of the rules. if they don’t get it. they don’t get it. there’s a limit to what you can explain to some people.
i think some people also become yankee fans because they have to root for a winner. kind of like the old notre dame fans who flocked to them because they always won. in baseball if a person has a deep psychological need to have their team on top , it’s probably best to watch a team from a distance because even the best teams are going to lose 40% of the time.
they may be in first place 90% of the time , but they are still going to lose two out of five games. so for the fan who needs something good everyday to feel good about , it’s probably best to watch from a distance.
it’s almost embarrassing to watch some people on the blog fall apart when the yankees are losing. i thought someone was going to have to call 911 for an unnamed poster last night.
even players fail more than they succeed. mickey mantle struck out more than anyone in the game. if you lined up his stike outs he went about four years without hitting a baseball.
baseball is about who fails the least and handles failure the best.
Well said, Randy L.
The thing that hurts Toronto is the currency exchange rate. The pay out in US currency and take in Canadian currency. They’re losing 20 cent on the dollar on contracts. That’s part of what will make a player like Rios available. It’s a fairly sizeable contract for a long term and may not be worth the production produced.
Has anyone heard anything about Bruney? Is there any time table for his rehab?
I don’t trust Andy at all against Boston, especially against Beckett
Brandon, do you want the Yankees to be the Oakland A’s or the Colorado Rockies? Of course I’d like the Yankees to have an endless stockpile of “young, athletic” players to dip into whenever they have an immediate hole to fill.
But as SJ previously stated, who are you going to give up? Organizations are not going to give up that sort of talent for 3 months of Johnny Damon.
The only viable way for the Yankees to stockpile young talent would be to have a firesale. I dont see that happening ANY TIME soon.
Best way forward is to let Oppenheimer do what he’s been doing and build through the draft.
It’s a process.
Pettitte with a balky back and a rehabbing Wang are not what you want against the Sux
“The only viable way for the Yankees to stockpile young talent would be to have a firesale. I dont see that happening ANY TIME soon.”
You see again I’m not saying that, OK I’m going to say this and ppl are going to just wave it off, but if CMW starts pitching solid what could the Yankees get for him ? I always ask myself that question. Especially w/ the arms we have coming up, somebody eventually will go.
Randy,
Exactly. Its why I laugh when I hear folks talk about Yankee fans being “smart”.
They boo Arod in every AB. They declared Tex and CC “busts” after the first two weeks of the season.
They determined the season was “over” in April because they lost 5 games to the Red Sox.
Now, they act like Wang is some slug. He did pitch better than his line yesterday.
Excellent in innings 1, 2 and 4. Left a pitch up to Cruz in the fifth. So what, that happens and that’s baseball.
His bad inning was the third.
I contend that if he doesn’t leave an 0-2 pitch up to Davis, a .190 hitter, for that double, he breezes through that inning and nobody is complaining about him today.
I use him every fifth day from now until July 4 and, if he’s struggling, then talk about pulling him out of the rotation.
Despite the pleas from some on here, he’s not on a tryout period with the Yankees. He is back in the rotation because he’s the second best starting pitcher on the team.
He’s close to being all the way back. Would be nice if folks just exercise a little patience.
considering how long the people on this blog pined for a scrub like Scott Proctor after he was traded, you guys wouldn’t have the stomach to have your GM trade away your stars for prospects.
that’s how other teams get prospects: by trading stars to the good teams. teams like the Yankees.
Good morning, guys.
I like the fact that I’m seeing quite a few people calling for patience with Wang.
It wasn’t pretty, but he looked good in the first couple of innigs.
He faded later, but could this be because he hasn’t been pitching on a regular basis?
The Yankees owe him the chance to build up strength and endurance after parking him in the pen when they activated him.
Are Yankee fans so spoiled that we can’t lose a game once in a while? That AJ HAS to pitch shutouts in order to get their approval? That Wang HAS to revert to his old self before they love him again?
Just to piggy-back what Randy mentioned…
http://www.baseball-reference......reer.shtml
Wouldn’t have guessed that Mike Cameron would be #22 on the list – with a shot at being top 12 before he retires.
BTW, great points, Randy.
“They’re losing 20 cent on the dollar on contracts.”
Think it’s around 10 cents now, but it’s a good point.
I doubt there would be a doubleheader this weekend if tonight’s game gets rained out. Rays do come back here one more time this year, so they would probably make it up then with a day-night twinbill.God, I miss the old days when there were Sunday doubleheaders starting at 1 and a couple of twinight doubleheaders on Friday nights scheduled during the season.
Currently it is pouring in midtown. It is cold and gross out.
“Where did I say that ? I want to pair someone w/ him for the future of this OF. I like defense in the OF for some reason + speed and guys that I know can go 1st to 3rd on the basepaths and throw a guy out on D.”
im not accusing you of saying that but it seems like you are on a little bit of a tangent lol…everybody loves highly athletic outfielders but they dont grow on trees…yes ofcourse i want the upton brothers and adam jones but we cant have it all…lets hope that ajax turns into a nice player and if romine cant stick at catcher maybe he can be a rf as you say…who knows, maybe cash does make a trade using our surplus of pitching for an outfielder…time will tell
Steve B (Wouldn’t it be cool if AJ’s ERA was 3.14)
June 5th, 2009 at 12:59 pm
“They’re losing 20 cent on the dollar on contracts.”
Think it’s around 10 cents now, but it’s a good point.
————————————————————
10 or 20 cents, it’s still at least a million on every 10 million in contracts. That’s a lot of money when you account for 200-250 baseball contracts.
“You see again I’m not saying that, OK I’m going to say this and ppl are going to just wave it off, but if CMW starts pitching solid what could the Yankees get for him ? I always ask myself that question. Especially w/ the arms we have coming up, somebody eventually will go.”
there definitly is nothing wrong with that…if wang can net you something that makes the team better you consider it..only if it makes to better though…
Not sure if anyone realized this or not… but the Yanks just took 2 out of 3 from the team that had the best record in the AL.
And with, arguably the Yanks’ 3 worst pitchers going (at least right now).
They also managed to give a day off to Jeter, Tex, and Posada in 1 game each.
Not bad at all.
I think that if Wang were to transform himself into the kind of phenom who would give us a young 5-tool OF in return, we would want to keep him. lol
i think with wang it is a stamina issue.
he has to stay in the rotation for at least 3 more outings to be fair & do it right because if they can fix him that makes us a lot better plus deeper.
hughes will be waiting in the wings.
Randy, your recent posts on Wang have been some of the best writing, on any subject, I’ve read in quite some time.
“You see again I’m not saying that, OK I’m going to say this and ppl are going to just wave it off, but if CMW starts pitching solid what could the Yankees get for him ? I always ask myself that question. Especially w/ the arms we have coming up, somebody eventually will go.”
If Wang starts pitching like he did in 06-07 the Yankees are not going to trade him for a prospect, maybe in the off-season after he has a good year but in the middle of a pennant race? no.
Just to add to Randy’s excellent Wang synopsis, there’s a limit to people WANT to understand. Its gonna take time for Wang to get better. PERiD. But some people just don’t want to accept that for an answer.
“I think that if Wang were to transform himself into the kind of phenom who would give us a young 5-tool OF in return, we would want to keep him. lol”
With guys like ..
Zach McCallister, Dellin Betances, Wilkins De La Rosa, Ivan Nova, Andrew Brackman, Manny Banuelos, Brett Marshall…. pretty soon somebody will be going. Can’t stick them all in the BP
Why can’t we turn Wang into a 5-tool OF. Imagine him throwing that 95mph sinker from LF to nail Ellsbury at the plate.
If you imagine it, it will happen.
Randy,
Beautifully put. That’s the reason why Yankee fans are generalized as some of the worst fans in sports.
Brandon,
Out of all those guys you list, most of them are years away from coming to the Bronx, if at all.
You can too prospect happy. Prospects mean they haven’t done ANYTHING at the major league level yet.
Betances, Brackman, Banuelos, Nova, and Marshall are 3-4 years away from even being in the conversation about figuring out what to do with them.
McAllister is probably a 2011 decision.
DeLaRosa? If he has a future at all, its going to be in the bullpen.
You don’t trade a Wang because you MIGHT have guys who could be knocking on the door in 2-4 years.
They don’t have ANY decisions to make because none of the guys you list are an option for the major league roster anytime soon.
vin-
wow. looked at your list. if reggie’s strikeouts were lined up he’d go over 5 years without putting the ball in play.
SJ,
I can’t agree with you more about Yankee fans. IMO, they’re lousy fans with little patience and respect to how difficult the game of baseball is which goes back to their habit of booing their own players.
“I use him every fifth day from now until July 4 and, if he’s struggling, then talk about pulling him out of the rotation.
Despite the pleas from some on here, he’s not on a tryout period with the Yankees. He is back in the rotation because he’s the second best starting pitcher on the team.
He’s close to being all the way back. Would be nice if folks just exercise a little patience.”
The way I see it is Wang isn’t quite Wang yet. But with patience by July he may be back to himself and that’s like making a trade for a 2x 19 game winner.
“Randy, your recent posts on Wang have been some of the best writing, on any subject, I’ve read in quite some time.”
I agree.
I hope it’s the Cape Cod ocean air and not the Red Sox fanbase that he mingles with.
According to weather.com, its supposed to stop raining early evening. My guess is there will be Yankee baseball tonight, maybe just heavily delayed Yankee baseball
“5 tool prospect”
“young and athletic”
“high upside talent”
“can’t miss prospect”
These are all slogans. I’d take a “baseball player” over each and every one.
Brandon, I personally think its a great “problem” to have too much pitching. Its the one that can almost ALWAYS get you on top in a trade. We may lack in position prospects, but with the pitching prospects we have, one or 2 can be traded to fill that. If we so choose. Its nice to have the choice of what we want in a trade, instead of being forced into one like the Holliday trade by the Rockies.
“According to weather.com, its supposed to stop raining early evening. My guess is there will be Yankee baseball tonight, maybe just heavily delayed Yankee baseball”
meh, is there anything worse than 7PM games that start at 9:15 with like 5,000 people left in the ballpark.
Joekuh,
Don’t you mean fertility GodESS
If we had lost yesterday, most everybody would be all over Wang and wanting him out of the rotation. But we won yesterday, so most people are magnanimous.
But yesterday, Wang wasn’t that impressive to me. Sometimes he pitched well, but even early he was throwing some wild pitches. Late, he was leaving a number of balls up, it seemed to me.
Maybe he just needs innings, but maybe its not just that. We have 6 capable pitchers on the team. Personally, I would evaluate Wang start by start and see how it goes.
Obviously, the Yanks are a better team if the 2009 Wang is the 2007 Wang. But, there aren’t any guarantees in this process.
Brandon
If Wang gets back to the old Wang why in the world would you want to trade him.
You must be forgetting just how good he was before he got hurt.
Teams that trade pitchers of that quality are teams that aren’t going to compete for the playoffs.
If he gets straightened out this pitching staff will be extremely dominant.
A pitching staff like that can make up for weakness elsewhere on the team.
Pictures from the Jeter and Swisher Meet and Greet in NYC last night.
http://tinyurl.com/pyxbcb
Green Beret7,
I agree with you on Rios, I think he and Markakis are the two of most talented right fielders in the game right now. Maybe a change of scenery would help him reach his full potential. The thing is, before last season, they talked to SF about trading him, and they wouldn’t do it unless SF gave them Lincecum. Of course, that ended the talks. Even if they would trade him in division, I don’t think we as fans would be willing to part with who the Blue Jays would demand.
Jon Ringland
June 5th, 2009 at 1:22 pm
“According to weather.com, its supposed to stop raining early evening. My guess is there will be Yankee baseball tonight, maybe just heavily delayed Yankee baseball”
meh, is there anything worse than 7PM games that start at 9:15 with like 5,000 people left in the ballpark.
————————————————————
Meh….it beats the Hell out of them playing double headers.
Brandon,
The only prospect out of all those you’ve mentioned that seems to have any viability is McAllister.
Banuelos is 18 and in low A-Ball. Nova is an orgnizational arm. Marshall is years away at low-A, Brackman is fresh off TJ surgery and is prone to extreme bouts of wildness – again at low-A. Betances is still extremely raw, and there’s a good chance he’ll never live up to his potential.
I’m not a biggest fan of Wang’s either, but you don’t trade a guy with a major league track record – albeit two and a half years – to pin your hopes on guys that may never pan out or won’t pan out for several years.
name me one team in history or recent history that were so deep in pitching that it was i big problem?
it doesn’t happen.
most of our pitching prospects will not make it long term.
wow putz having surgery.out for 8-10 weeks.
wonder if they will be in the mix for bullpen help at the trading deadline along with us.
they are a mess right now.
tom in nj and DT-
thanks. it’s one of the few things i have some inside info on which makes it easier to write about.
The Yankees screwed up with Wang.
He should have pitch one or two more games at AAA to get his strength and control to where it needs to be. Then he sat around pitching only 5 innings out of the Pen. Now it will take another 2-3 more starts with the major league team to even know where he’s at.
Lucky the yankees won yesterday’s game, but they won’t win in Boston if he pitches like yesterday. Hopefully he does better in his next start and not worse.
My guess is that he will not get 4-5 starts like yesterday without being replaced.
“wonder if they will be in the mix for bullpen help at the trading deadline…”
Are you thinking what I’m thinking? Jose Veras to the Mets????
Wang will be fine. By the end of the season, CC and him will be the new 1-2 punch, like CC-Fausto a couple of years ago, except this version won’t fizzle in the playoffs.
Unfortunately, all teams have some fans that are just plain dumb. The boo birds, the bridge jumpers, the nervous nellies… they exist everywhere. We see them (obviously) because they chime in here and have a cult leader in Francesa. Being in the #1 media market, those Yankee ‘fans’ get more notice than the ones in Dallas complaining about the Cowboys or Miami about the Heat.
And because they are more vocal, they drown out the real fans that have an understanding of the game and the team.
Mark in Tampa
June 5th, 2009 at 1:23 pm
Green Beret7,
I agree with you on Rios, I think he and Markakis are the two of most talented right fielders in the game right now. Maybe a change of scenery would help him reach his full potential. The thing is, before last season, they talked to SF about trading him, and they wouldn’t do it unless SF gave them Lincecum. Of course, that ended the talks. Even if they would trade him in division, I don’t think we as fans would be willing to part with who the Blue Jays would demand.
————————————————————
I’m just taking into account the economy, the size of the remaining contract and the fact that the organization does’t appear to be real happy with the drop in numbers. I’d send a couple of young pitchers like Kontos and Robertson or one of them and Romine and cash for him. They have two young highly rated outfielders as replacements. They have no catching in the system. They’re also digging deep to cover their pitching losses.
yeah, you can’t hear not booing on tv… :/
How many years until Wang is a FA? I think after next year.
For those who want to trade him, I don’t think he’s worth much. He’s making like 5mil this year and if he get’s back on track he might make 7-8 next year.
Better the Yankees keep him until he’s a FA and go from there…
1. Jon Ringland June 5th, 2009 at 1:22 pm
Joekuh,
Don’t you mean fertility GodESS
=======
Touche, Sir, Touche.
francessa critisizing the yankees because wang is lined up to pitch against becket & santanna but he likes the matchup for the yankees with cc & joba’s starts against the rs.
joba is going against wake or penney if i heard him right.
that is better than him going against lester,becket or dice so that is the tradeoff.
he has to understand that wang had to go back in the rotation because he can’t be sen’t down & would need to be stretched out over 2 or 3 outings.
Big game Andy will do fine against Boston, if he has to face them
GB7,
If you could steal him, absolutely I would go for it. It’s just that they have set their value on him internally at the Lincecum level. I think it would be hard for them to lower it significantly unless they are really hurting financially. If that were the case, I think they would enough takers that they wouldn’t have to trade him to the Yanks. But, if you can figure a way to get him in Pinstripes, I am all for it.
If they would take that for Rios I’d drive the guys to Toronto myself. I think it would have to include McAllister or Hughes plus Robertson or Coke and Romine.
That would be a tough deal to make or turn down… which is what a good trade is supposed to be.
Good point on the Jays’ system… they sure as heck need a projectable catcher and Romine would have to entire them.
entice them…. I’m a dummy
GB7
The thing that bothers me about Rios is he has always shown promise but hasn’t made the next step.
When he was younger you thought when he develops he’ll be extremely good.
He seems to still be at that first stage. Seems to lack the fire to be the best.
Um does Mike realize the team the Mets are fielding?
Why does everyone cry about Wang? Give the guy a chance its only June 5th. You guys need to calm down.
Does Francessa not realize that a game against Tampa is more important than the Mets?
He would have either faced Tampa or the Mets (and would have to pitch vs. Boston in either scenario). If you waited until after the Mets series, it would have been nearly a month since he last started. Then you have to build him up from scratch.
The Yankees didn’t match him up with Beckett/Santana because they wanted to, they did it because the window to get him in the rotation seamlessly was shrinking.
More interesting than the Yankee pitching decision would be whether the Rays will push Price back a day or will they skip him.
Mark in Tampa
June 5th, 2009 at 1:36 pm
GB7,
If you could steal him, absolutely I would go for it. It’s just that they have set their value on him internally at the Lincecum level. I think it would be hard for them to lower it significantly unless they are really hurting financially. If that were the case, I think they would enough takers that they wouldn’t have to trade him to the Yanks. But, if you can figure a way to get him in Pinstripes, I am all for it.
————————————————————
I can’t imagine the the Rogers family really want to keep a losing proposition, but, you never know. They asked for Lincecum before his big year last year and before Rios’ offense started sliding. They wouldn’t get that then, and right now, they wouldn’t get Cain, either. Whatever they want, I’d still ask, but, they won’t get players like that.
vin
June 5th, 2009 at 1:28 pm
“wonder if they will be in the mix for bullpen help at the trading deadline…”
Are you thinking what I’m thinking? Jose Veras to the Mets????
======================================
They can have him…
I think he’s gone as soon as Bruney is back.
I think Hughes should stay with the big league club and be used like the Red Sox use Masterson.
“I think Hughes should stay with the big league club and be used like the Red Sox use Masterson.”
Bingo.
John, thanks! I don’t understand why the Sox pick ahead of us……..
I don’t see the big deal with starting Wang against the Sox. Yeah, it’s not ideal but it’s only one game.
The bigger problem is if tonight’s game gets rained out and we have to send Andy AND Wang out there against Boston.
One last thing about Rios is that contract….60 mil plus until 2014.
Pettitte’s starts against Boston since 07
2009:
6 IP, 4 R
2008:
4.2 IP, 7 R
6 IP, 3 R
4.2 IP, 6 R
2007:
6.1 IP, 2 R
4.2 IP, 5 R
7 IP, 1 R
4.1 IP, 5 R
7 IP, 3 R
4 IP, 5 R
Sending him and Wang out there is just asking for trouble next week.
The Wang talk has gotten slightly out of hand. As with all our discussions on pitchers, we tend to try and jump to decisions without letting things pan out.
Wang is still rehabbing and more time on the major league level is the only way the Yankees can properly rehab him according to the rules. If Wang continues to struggle then the proper moves will be made. However, it is too early to jump the gun right now.
Also, as a sinker ball pitcher, we have seen Wang pitch better on longer rests. Perhaps his sporadic bullpen stints prior to yesterday’s start have thrown off his schedule. Give it time to pan out and let Wang reach his potential before dismissing him.
Sometimes pitchers lose their groove and have to adjust. Mike Mussina went through a similar process, and everyone declared him finished. Wang’s sinker has been improving and he will need to adjust and mix in some different speeds in order to get back on track. It happens.
One start isn’t cause for panic and pulling him out of the Boston game will offset the entire rotation schedule. It’s not worth it right now.
If they get rained out tonight, would they play 2 tomorrow?
Please, quit worrying about the Boston series. Let’s focus on Tampa this weekend.
Andy and Wang will do fine in Fenway. CC gets a start in there as well. Considering how strong our offense is, and given the fact that they’ll be sending out Tim Wakefield and Brad Penny….again….Brad Penny, I like our chances to take 2/3 next week.
Until then, lets focus on crushing Tampa this weekend and putting them in a big hole that they might not be able to recover from.
“When he was younger you thought when he develops he’ll be extremely good.
He seems to still be at that first stage. Seems to lack the fire to be the best.
”
Maybe he’d be better served being in a lineup like NYY’s. I could see a lineup of:
Jeter
Damon
Tex
Alex
Rios
Posada
Matsui
Cano
Cabrera
Am I the only person who didn’t know that he was born in Alabama?
SJ, thanks! It’s hard for the Yankees, who have been consistently good for a long time, to draft players who don’t have some kind of flaws. It actually makes what they’ve done very impressive – they don’t have the “luxury” of being so bad that they get the chance to draft studs every year. Of course, I wouldn’t want that luxury and the Pirates have not done much with their high draft picks….
Why hasn’t this game been called? The Yankees are fools if they try to play in this weather…..
I’ve been a Yanks’ season plan holder for sixteen years, and I have a different take on Yankee fans than some of the opinions above.
I go to the games a lot. In the old stadium I sat in the tier boxes, in the new stadium in the terrace section.
I’ve had a lot of different fans sit around me over the years, some knowledgeable, some not, some liked to scream obscenities, some didn’t. Almost all of them booed the opposing team, almost all of them booed the Yanks some of the time, too. Some of our most revered “True Yankees” got some boos, even Derek Jeter sometimes.
But the fact is, there weren’t any empty seats around me, and the crowd support of the team was fierce and sometimes deafening. I’ve been at games where you could feel the upper deck shaking (or at least it seemed that way).
Sure, maybe sometimes they were worried Boston would beat us or Jeter wouldn’t come out of a slump, and maybe sometimes in their frustration they might refer to a particular Yank as “garbage”, but they were passionate about the Yanks. All of those fans were great fans.
IMO, Yankee fans are the best fans going.
i don’t think it matters that much who goes against boston because anything can happen.
yes you wan’t your better pitchers going but any one of our pitchers can win or lose any of those games.
would you wan’t cc against becket or pettitte against wake/penney?
“if Wang gets back to the old Wang why in the world would you want to trade him.”
maine yankee-
cashman does have a stat department that he put together and pays attention to. rumor has been they haven’t liked wang’s low strike out rate for a long time( sabermetric dogma) and have pushed for him to get more strikeouts by throwing more secondary pitches.
when guidry was there, for some reason he worked well with wang. it may have been he’s close friends with neil allen and he let allen’s instructions to wang be the operational ones.
that’s just speculation on my part, but it makes sense they’d talk if guidry wanted to know what allen taught him in the first place. plus if a slider was being encouraged you couldn’t have a better teacher than guidry.
on the slider being added, i actually asked allen about it if it would mess up wang encouraging having him to throw more sliders because some pitchers who pronate( turn doorknob counterclockwise) have trouble with pitches that need supination( turn doorknob clockwise) . the sinker and change up usually use pronation and the curve and slider use supination.
allen said he taught wang the pull down the shade method for the sinker where the wrist doesn’t pronate. he said wang could throw the slider from the same arm motion without turning his hand. just change the grip and pull down.
so ironically wang could according to allen , throw a lot of secondary pitches if he did it right. allen himself threw a nasty 12/6 curve and a sinker using the same pull down method with no wrist turning.
different pitching coaches teach how to throw breaking balls differently.i’d like to know how eiland teaches it. no method a mlb pitching coach teaches a breaking ball is going to be bad, but it may conflict with the way a pitcher has been previously taught.
right now though, it seems the yankees have a handle on wang. it seems like he”s slowly becoming untangled.
Betsy- It is only 2pm. start time is still 5 hours away. Much to early to call it.
“Andy and Wang will do fine in Fenway.”
No they won’t. Pettitte is 40 and never good at Fenway and Wang is a nightmare coming back from the DL in that ballpark.
“Until then, lets focus on crushing Tampa this weekend and putting them in a big hole that they might not be able to recover from.”
Exactly… They’re 6 games back now in the loss column. Would love to see them 7 back by Tuesday.
Yanks 99
June 5th, 2009 at 1:43 pm
Pettitte’s starts against Boston since 07
2009:
6 IP, 4 R
2008:
4.2 IP, 7 R
6 IP, 3 R
4.2 IP, 6 R
2007:
6.1 IP, 2 R
4.2 IP, 5 R
7 IP, 1 R
4.1 IP, 5 R
7 IP, 3 R
4 IP, 5 R
Sending him and Wang out there is just asking for trouble next week.
=========================================================
It is what it is.
They will just have to put their hitting shoes on.
Until Andy hurt his back he was the 2nd best pitcher on the staff. If his back is not better, well then??
Oh dear – I hope the Yankees don’t play in the rain. The team record is not positive on rainy day games. That said, I am glad to read the positive posts on Wang. His first two innings were awesome. I have said on other boards that some fans are looking short term imstead of long term.
Wang did not have to “earn” his way back into the rotation– he needed to “heal” his way back into the rotation. Some fans think only today’s game and not next week or next month. Wang back to full health only makes the rotation that much stronger.
Al, he’s 36 – will be 37 in a couple weeks.
Al, yes they will. We’ll get the bats going, give them some run support, and everything will be sunshine in balloons. Have some faith.
A rainout would throw Andy into the Boston/Mets series against Beckett/Santana, and push Wang out of the Mets series.
Do you really trust Pettitte vs. Beckett/Santana much more than Wang? And you still have Wang in the Boston series anyway, so it’s not like you replace him.
I’d rather throw Wang out there vs. Beckett and takes my chances with CC and Joba vs. Wakefield and Penny.
“One last thing about Rios is that contract….60 mil plus until 2014.”
I am all for it, as long as we keep Hughes, Montero, AJax, and Brackman. It would hurt to give up Betances or de la Rosa, but sometimes you have to give to get.
“Good point on the Jays’ system… they sure as heck need a projectable catcher and Romine would have to entire them”
1st round pick from ’06 was a catcher and is rated their 2nd best prospect behind Snider. He’s in AAA right now. Good pop, but still needs some work. He’s probably to be their catcher next year though.
Fans calling the Yankees to find out if the game is rained out, should be treated to an automated Yankee radio voice – think of the possibilities…
It is Sunny, It is Gorgeous, It is Beautiful…IT IS … time for the tarp, this could be a long rain delay.
Oh my goodness gracious! Of all the dramatic things I have ever seen! This is it! The tarp is coming back! The tarp is back! Oh my!
White, you huckleberry! You tricked me! This game is not gonna start on time! Oh boy, I saw lightning – that’s it White, I’m outta here.
I don’t think there is any question that the offense needs to come up BIG the next few series. We have some questionable pitching matchups coming up.
Of course, chances are you’re not going to get many runs off Santana and Beckett seems to have found his groove.
We’ll see. Certainly not ideal considering you have 2 pitchers who are struggling (Andy/Wang) starting some big games for us this week.
Al from BK
June 5th, 2009 at 1:47 pm
“Andy and Wang will do fine in Fenway.”
No they won’t. Pettitte is 40 and never good at Fenway and Wang is a nightmare coming back from the DL in that ballpark
————————————————————
Last year, he was 0-1 and allowed 3 runs in 6 innings. In his career at Fenway, he’s 16-9 and a 3.73 ERA. Find visiting left handers that do better.
Do you just post without bothering to check, or do you post because you think you know everything?
The focus of the series against the RS is all about who is pitching for the Yankees.
Don’t forget the Yankees have a potent offense that the RS pitchers have to be thinking about.
This team is so different than when they played earlier,
The SP is better now and the lineup is deeper as well.
They are tied in the standings. People seem to be looking back instead of ahead.
Like some have said, some Yankee fans are acting lkie RS fans pre 04.
“No they won’t. Pettitte is 40 and never good at Fenway and Wang is a nightmare coming back from the DL in that ballpark”
please…do us all a favor a dont watch the games then…your negativity is not appreciated
His ERA vs Boston the last 3 yrs. has been near horrible GB, I think it’s around the 5._ _
maine yankee-
i lost my main point on why the yankees might want to trade wang . because of the pressure from them to him to add secondary pitches i think they perceive him to be high maintenance to them.
they didn’t like the way he was successful with so few strikeouts and adding secondary pitches has become problematical. this lisfranc injury recovery hasn’t helped either.
there was a testy arbitration in 2008 and wang wasn’t happy to net get a long term contract like cano got.
even if wang totally comes back the yankees may not value him the way he’s going to value himself when he’s a free agent after the 2010 season.
“Last year, he was 0-1 and allowed 3 runs in 6 innings. In his career at Fenway, he’s 16-9 and a 3.73 ERA. Find visiting left handers that do better.”
Actually Andy won the Saturday afternoon game at Fenway last year, the day after Joba outdueled Beckett.
http://www.retrosheet.org/boxe.....OS2008.htm
these games against the rays and sox are not much different than games against any other 2 teams…its not the end of the world win or lose
Wow, I didn’t realize Andy was that bad against Boston recently.
He has like 2 quality starts in his last 10 games against them
Maine Yankee.
Well said. The Yankee team is far different than the previous two series. This series will a fun one. I am going Tues and Wed eve. Are you headed to Hadlock to see Trenton?
All- Happy Friday.
-dennis
For those who think Andy has been good against Boston, check out Yanks 99′s 1:43 PM post.
He has been brutal.
“Wang did not have to “earn” his way back into the rotation—he needed to “heal” his way back into the rotation. Some fans think only today’s game and not next week or next month. Wang back to full health only makes the rotation that much stronger.”
No one has an issue w/ him being back, it’s the freaking premise that he’s untradeable that some can’t stand. It’s like they talk about this guy like he’s Mr. Cy Young, what would you trade Wang for ?…uh. we can’t get nothing for him, what about for ? No. …It’s ridiculous, yes I understand he’s a 2 time 19 game winner and our offense deserves much of those 19 GW, but it’s not like he’s untradeable like people make him out to be.
rany
This is just a guess on my part but they may have taught Wang some oyher pitches so he had a fall back if the sinker wasn’t working.
You need to be carefull you sound like you’re softning on how Eiland is handling him.
Some people are amazing on this blog. No matter what, they’ll never be happy. Maybe we should release Wang and Andy and we can find a way to quickly bring back Sidney Ponson and Darryl Rasner and thrown them out there next week to face the Sox at Fenway…hows that sound??
Joe I
June 5th, 2009 at 1:57 pm
“Last year, he was 0-1 and allowed 3 runs in 6 innings. In his career at Fenway, he’s 16-9 and a 3.73 ERA. Find visiting left handers that do better.”
Actually Andy won the Saturday afternoon game at Fenway last year, the day after Joba outdueled Beckett.
————————————————————
My error. I was looking at this year’s Fenway game.
Bingo, the Rays series is important too. They are the only team that can keep us from October baseball. Not likely, but they are only 5 games back with plenty of baseball to play.
Send them a message this weekend. Let them know that the Kings of the AL East are back and their run is over.
Wave Your Hat–
thanks for sharing that man
I think Yankee fans fall into two catagories. Pre-2004 and Post-2004.
Pre-2004 Yankee fans, by and large, were good fans. Post-2004, large numbers of them are nothing more than crybabies.
Boo everybody, demand everybody be fired at the drop of a hat, decide every game is the biggest game of the year and basically spend most of their time being miserable. Its really analogous to Pre-2004 Red Sox fans. Too much “woe is me” nonsense.
Hard to understand why since the franchise is the most successful franchise in sports history. However, since 2004, large number of Yankee fans embarrass themselves on almost a daily basis in the stadium and on just about every Yankee blog on the ‘net.
Its probably systematic of a large issue. More about the “instant gratification” era or just how much sports talk radio influences thinking of many fans.
Either way, the baseball IQ of too many Post-2004 Yankee fans is at an amazingly low level.
Its a shame but, that’s the way it goes.
“Wow, I didn’t realize Andy was that bad against Boston recently.”
Andy ain’t a young man anymore and more recent Boston teams have been better than the one’s he feasted on in his 1st term as a Yankee. He’s still been keeping the team in games against Boston generally, but his days of dominating them are probably long gone.
“Do you just post without bothering to check, or do you post because you think you know everything?”
Somehow I feel that those numbers were compiled when Andy was a different pitcher. I just can’t see Andy throwing a decent game the way he has looked lately.
randy
Sorry for the typos. I’ve been taking spelling from GB7.
Jon Ringland
June 5th, 2009 at 1:22 pm
“According to weather.com, its supposed to stop raining early evening. My guess is there will be Yankee baseball tonight, maybe just heavily delayed Yankee baseball”
meh, is there anything worse than 7PM games that start at 9:15 with like 5,000 people left in the ballpark.
****
Considering the lack of anything else on TV- I will take the 9:15 start if it comes to that. Heavily delayed Yankee baseball is better than no Yankee baseball
i agree X-Mann . . this series is just as important as the Sox series ! .
The Yankees MUST send a message to the Rays . .and really bury them in the AL EAST
Am looking forward to the Joba – Matt Garza pitching duel. Garza is tough pitcher. It should be good match up. But Joba will prevail.
Gad, baseball is an exciting game to watch! In the comfort of my own home I can yell, curse, clap and be a bad fan. But mostly, I am a good fan and applaud all plays and feel lucky that I am a Yankee fan.
Erica, how are you feeling? Did you get a good report from the doctor?
Andy has been good for a #4 starter, but he really hasn’t been that good for several starts now…….He’s got a bad back, the Yankees pitched him despite his not having a BP session (which is stupid) – I’m a bit concerned about Andy. He’s a battler for sure – no one can ever take that away from him – but I would prefer the Yankees skip a start with him. I missed the play, but several people mentioned that he didn’t look good covering first base in his last start – his health is more important than him pitching one game. That said, the rotation falls the way it falls. I don’t have much faith in Wang at all at this point……but the only way he’s going to get better is to pitch. What are you going to do? I’d prefer him not to pitch in Fenway, but I admit that the Yankees can’t pull him out of the rotation at this point. AT some point though, if Wang doesn’t make progress and ends up killing the pen again, a decision will have to be made.
Exactly.
Put the Rays away first. Then we have all summer to focus only on Boston and not worry about Tampa inching close to us for a playoff spot.
Al from BK
June 5th, 2009 at 2:03 pm
“Do you just post without bothering to check, or do you post because you think you know everything?”
Somehow I feel that those numbers were compiled when Andy was a different pitcher. I just can’t see Andy throwing a decent game the way he has looked lately.
————————————————————
I’ll take his 3 runs every 6 innings in Fenway.
That’s considerably different than “he’s 40 and never good at Fenway”, though, isn’t it?
Fran (the original) and OPPC member
June 5th, 2009 at 2:05 pm
Erica, how are you feeling? Did you get a good report from the doctor?
***
Thank you for asking. I am finally feeling a lot better. I was not allowed to return to work today, but Monday should be a go. As long as my strength and my stomach hold up, I think I am leaving the house tomorrow. YAY!!! LOL.
Since I just took the last of my anti-biotics, I started the fun task of washing everything I came in contact with during the week when I was a walking germ. I am about to start load of laundry #3
Jen, the Mets game got rained out early yesterday. I would rather play a DH then play in these putrid conditions and chance a player getting hurt.
“I think Yankee fans fall into two catagories. Pre-2004 and Post-2004.
Pre-2004 Yankee fans, by and large, were good fans. Post-2004, large numbers of them are nothing more than crybabies.”
SJ,
You mean they act like Red Sox fans pre-2004.
They’re not playing tonight.
SJ44,
I think the post-2004 fans you refer to are mostly post-2000 anyway. Fans who maybe despised the Yanks for years, or were at least ambivilant. They finally decided to root for the Yanks so they could root for a WS champion. Now that they have become “fans”, they keep wondering: “Where is my championship? I am owed one because now I am a Yankee fan!”
Just my opinion.
SJ,
I think the year of demarcation is 1998.
Too many people jumped on board. Many of them had no taste for bad Yankee teams. Too much success too quickly. Failure tests true fans.
Not enough Mel Hall or Mike Pags or Andy Hawkins losing no hitters in their lives.
The 2004 fans are the Sox. When they take a dip, which they will, those fans are going to be like our newbees, losing their collective minds.
“Starters are more valuable than relievers, and Chamberlain is showing every sign of developing into a wonderful starter; therefore, he should start. Simple.
Because it’s so simple, it’s mildly bizarre that more than a year after his brief run in relief ended there are still people who are passionately convinced that Chamberlain should be working out of the bullpen. Some of this is just contrived; some, like the insane ranting of New York City radio host Mike Francesca, is just comical. A lot of it, though, is sincere, which is what can make it so frustrating. Because when you run through the arguments, there’s nothing there.”
“If you’re not convinced yet, read the full article (RTFA!), because Marchman does the best job I’ve seen of going through all the arguments on both sides, and the conclusion really is inescapable. In 22 career starts, Joba’s got a 3.12 ERA, which last year would have the fourth best in the American League.”
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/swe.....ebate.html
referencing
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....index.html
Pettitte will give you his usual Pettitte line – 6 IP, 4 ER.
Will that be enough against a rejuvenated Beckett?
Boston also has best bullpen in baseball with a 2.82 ERA.
I look forward to seeing David Price pitching. I can’t wait to see how good he looks so I can think about all the years he’ll be pitching for the Yankees.
“Starters are more valuable than relievers, and Chamberlain is showing every sign of developing into a wonderful starter; therefore, he should start. Simple.
Because it’s so simple, it’s mildly bizarre that more than a year after his brief run in relief ended there are still people who are passionately convinced that Chamberlain should be working out of the bullpen. Some of this is just contrived; some, like the insane ranting of New York City radio host Mike Francesca, is just comical. A lot of it, though, is sincere, which is what can make it so frustrating. Because when you run through the arguments, there’s nothing there.”
“If you’re not convinced yet, read the full article (RTFA!), because Marchman does the best job I’ve seen of going through all the arguments on both sides, and the conclusion really is inescapable. In 22 career starts, Joba’s got a 3.12 ERA, which last year would have the fourth best in the American League.”
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/swe.....ebate.html
referencing
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....index.html
“He has been brutal.”
That’s hardly “brutal.” He’s had a 4 very good starts, 1 good start, and 5 average-below average starts. Now before you immediately question my rating system, think about the offense he is facing, with 1/2 the starts in Fenway, and the fact that he is a lefty pitching 1/2 those games in Fenway.
The biggest key for Andy against the RS the last 3 years is the fact that the Yanks are 5-5 in games he starts against Boston. Which, considering how evenly matched those two teams are, is all you can hope for.
dennis
Good afternoon dennis.
I’m not sure if I am going or not yet. If I do it will probably be Sat. night.
The Mets series should be
Joba vs. Maine
Burnett vs. Livan
Pettitte vs. Santana
This is assuming a rainout tonight, of course. And Burnett is going to serve his 5 game suspension at some point, so it may be Hughes vs. the Mets.
Well, it looks like the board has sunk down to whining about a series that’s 5 games away and a game that doesn’t start for another 5 hours. At least have the guts to wait until after the first Tampa batter gets on base or the first Yankee hitter takes a strike one.
Carl D, I think Wang is going against Beckett.
What are the odds of a game being played today?
I heard low.
“Pre-2004 Yankee fans, by and large, were good fans. Post-2004, large numbers of them are nothing more than crybabies.”
Lot of bandwagoners and wine and cheesers have assumed “fan” status since ’04.
Also worth noting the results pre 2004 as opposed to 2004 forward have some influence on the fan base. That’s not unusal. Honestly, if I were a Red Sox fan for three decades leading up to ’04, I think I’d be fairly miserable. That’s a long freakin’ time. Conversely, what did Yankees fans have to beef about from 1994-2003? And most of that happened before true fans who stuck with the team thru the 80′s into the 90′s (Stadium didn’t see as many as 3.5 million fans, nevermind 4 million, per season til Arod came – they didn’t even hit 3 million til 1999). Those were glorious times for those who stuck it out thru the darker seasons. It’s been a little frustrating the past few years.
If either Wang or Andy have issues, we have two great long men in Ace and Phil.
No worries, just score runs and there are no problems.
The pen has been better lately, just don’t run Vares out there in a close game and we’re good to go…
Cal D, I like our chances in all games but the Santana game.
The offense is going to have to step up in Fenway, that’s the bottom line.
SJ,GB or anyone else. Do you know what website i can go to get info and scores of the college baseball tournament?
Joe I, I fall in the category that was pre-2000. I was very upset when the Yankees started buying every big free agent in sight after the 2000 season.
“Hard to understand why since the franchise is the most successful franchise in sports history. However, since 2004, large number of Yankee fans embarrass themselves on almost a daily basis in the stadium and on just about every Yankee blog on the ‘net.”
Everybody’s experiences are different, of course, and this may have been your experience. I haven’t seen it, myself, though. I won’t speak for blogs, because this is the only one I comment on, and you have been on this a long time and I’m a relative newcomer.
But, with respect to my stadium experiences, I’d say, if anything, the fans around me at the old stadium were less rowdy and more calm from 2004 on. In the earlier period, the mid-90′s through the early 2000′s, it seemed like there was a lot more screaming, more fights, more beer drinking, more booing. It never bothered me too much, though. I think Yankee fans are great.
I want Wang in the rotation, but I wouldn’t start him vs. the Sox in Fenway.
Well said, Zolio. And I think they will.
MaineYankee
June 5th, 2009 at 2:03 pm
randy
Sorry for the typos. I’ve been taking spelling from GB7.
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Hey, you didn’t learn that from me. I can at least get one out of three words correct.
It’s not like buying free agents never worked before. 77, 78 anybody?
S.o.S.:
http://espn.go.com/college-sports/
I don’t think the Yankees need to be thinking about sending messages to any team – they just need to go out there and play well and win games. This isn’t football where you can get hyped up and use it to your advantage……..
The crowd at the stadium was pretty calm when I went.
From my experiences Yankee fans are no worse than any others.
S.o.S,
http://www.cbssports.com/colle.....m/brackets
What are the odds of a game being played today?
I heard very low.
As others have said, why are people overlooking Tampa?
This upcoming series may be even more important than the Fenway one. Tampa is the one team that has the talent to go on a big run this summer and challenge us for a playoff spot. Price could be a huge wild card for them if he can step up and when they get Kazmir back, they can dump Sonenstein.
Tampa is poised for a big run. Take care of them first before worrying about Boston.
i’m supposed to go to the game tonight. is the weather looking good enough to make the hour drive? it doesn’t look like it with 80% showers until 2am….
Goin to Fenway on Wednesday. Was able to score a single seat. I’m going in alone and will have my Yankee gear on, can’t wait! Yankee Pride!
GB,
Funny isn’t it? Folks are already getting themselves into a lather over a series that isn’t even here yet.
Its as if they are practicing their cries for the game threads as soon as the Yankees fall behind in games.
If some of you are so sure the Yankees are in “trouble” in Boston, why watch the games? Just decide they are losses and move on.
You will save yourselves a lot of aggrevation.
Nick, I agree that Tampa is a threat too often overlooked and who will absolutely challenge for a playoff berth, but right the Sox are better than Tampa. We’re better than Tampa. The Sox are tied with us, not Tampa. This series is important, but one team at a time.
GB7.
All is well in Midway today? Hot?
All this Joba debate?? I think after his start earlier in the week he should now go back to the bullpen…..especially for next week!
Cheers,
-dennis
Wonder whether Red Sox fans are pulling for the Yankees this weekend? Ray? Anyone? Would seem to make sense, no?
Steve, that doesn’t make sense. For the Sox to be in first the Yanks have to lose.
The Red Sox have 12 of the next 15 at home. I suspect they will make a run right now because they are a very good home team.
After that, they have to go back on the road and they aren’t as good a road team as home team.
Such are the ups and downs of a baseball schedule.
“meh, is there anything worse than 7PM games that start at 9:15 with like 5,000 people left in the ballpark.”
Actually, I love those games, not enough to become a Marlins or Nationals fan though.
Once in a while it’s fun.
“Pre-2004 Yankee fans, by and large, were good fans. Post-2004, large numbers of them are nothing more than crybabies.”
I’m surprised you forgot about the whiners and clowns, SJ. Maybe it just appears that way because there weren’t a lot of forums like this around and you didn’t otherwise come into contact with said crybabies. As somebody said before, this blog is a conduit for outrage. That cracked me up. Anyway, seems perfect for the crybabies.
Mell Hall, the pride of Port Byron, NY….hahaha
why do people thin one game is more important then another?
they all count the same.
i love that posters love all the moves the A’s make and other teams that stink year in and year out. mr know it all money ball beane that franchise in oakland sucks and they draw 15 k per game.
someone mentioned traded for a stud on a earlier post and suggested the yanks trade about 4 or 5 of there top prospects, that is insane. not A prospects but the likes of melancon, hughes, jackson, etc. clowns these guys are on the cusp of contributing at the major league level…
yea i use to think yankee fans were smarter then other teams fans, they are just as dumb and uninformed as all teams fans.. i live in calif. dodger fans, angel fans, yankee fans, etc. all the same…………
take a step back sportsfans look at the whole yankee organization today compared to tino’s last year, i think 2006 or so.. the yanks were really old, had terrible old pitching, the minor leagues were bereft of talent and they had terrible long term contracts for multiple underachievers.
now things are not perfect but look at the talent in the minors, look at the roster finacnical flexibility, look at the young arms.. it is 2 different worlds.. the contracts for next year are mo(1 more yr), jorge 2 more years, cc 7 yrs. tex 7 yrs( i think) arod 7 yrs. and aj burnett 4 yrs. cano and others have shorte rcontracts or they are younger or the contracts by yankee standards are quite modest.
damon, matsui, nady, pettitte, molina, off the books at the end of the season.. marte has a bad contract but let’s get real $ mill per for 2 more…in yankeeland the marte contract is a minor minor mistake…
my point is things are looking up so relax……….
Hard to “play well” when you are sending out Pettitte with a balky back and a rehabbing Wang against your biggest rival. You’re at a disadvantage from the start.
The offense knows it has to score plenty of runs right from the outset and if Wang gives up a 4 spot in the 1st… it just deflates everyone.
What, we’re going to give the game away against Santana, too? Maybe he’ll throw a no-hitter at them or maybe he’ll just be brilliant because he’s a brilliant pitcher, but the Yankees have seen him before and done fairly decently. If they don’t hit him, you tip your cap(though most fans will be complaining that the Yankees suck, like they did when Halladay shut them down) and move on. It seems like Yankee fans just have NO faith in this team….Rating their chances on a game by game basis? I’m pretty sure that the Yankees don’t bother doing this – they think they can beat any pitcher, any team…..and good for them.
S.o.S.
June 5th, 2009 at 2:18 pm
SJ,GB or anyone else. Do you know what website i can go to get info and scores of the college baseball tournament?
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as much as I dislike the network, ESPN has them, as do CBSsportsline.com and CNN/SI.
Steve B.
No. I am not pulling for the Yanks this weekend.I see your rationale but just can not do it. I would be lying if I said otherwise.
Respectfully.
-dennis
“Goin to Fenway on Wednesday. Was able to score a single seat. I’m going in alone and will have my Yankee gear on, can’t wait! Yankee Pride!”
Good luck. Be sure to post here on Thursday, so we know you made it out alive.
Betsy, I’m allowed to make the comment that the odds are in favor of the Mets. That is common sense. I never said there’s no point in playing, but I’d be surprised if we won.
“As others have said, why are people overlooking Tampa?”
Probably because they are missing Bartlett, Iwamura, Burrell and Kazmir, and tonight Longoria as well, plus Upton is in a big slump. Which is why I want the game tonight to go ahead.
But you are correct, of course, Tampa will be a factor before the season is over.
“You need to be carefull you sound like you’re softning on how Eiland is handling him”
maine yankee-
i never thought eiland was a bad pitching coach. i just wasn’t sure he understood wang.
he seems to be making progress with him now.
wang is an unusual pitcher. it may have taken eiland some time to get up to speed with him.
and remember eiland was a rookie major league pitching coach last year. he might be learning a thing or two. i can’t put my finger on it , but i’ve liked what i’ve seen from him lately.
I errored again in the Pettitte numbers against Boston at Fenway. Those were career overall. His numbers at Fenway are 6-3 and 3.60 in 14 starts. Those are still solid numbers for a left hander there.
Tampa is the ONE team that can go on a run? Obviously they have the talent to do it, but they are also in a division with two very, very good teams. Why are we worried about any team? Just take it one game at a time….I can assure you that the Yankees do the same. They don’t spend time looking at the calendar, worrying about who they’re going to face.
“Its as if they are practicing their cries for the game threads as soon as the Yankees fall behind in games.”
Hilarious.
SJ.
Good point. I believe the Red Sox have had the fewest amount of home games in the AL to date. They actually have more games on the road in June as well. They have only 12 home games in June. THey are home just about the whole month of July.
-dennis
“The offense knows it has to score plenty of runs right from the outset and if Wang gives up a 4 spot in the 1st… it just deflates everyone.”
I know where you’re going with this… BUT have you watched any games this season?!
“Steve, that doesn’t make sense. For the Sox to be in first the Yanks have to lose.”
The Wild Card has rendered 1st place considerably less meaningful than it was in the 2 division format. For my money, the Rays stand as the only threat to both the Yankees and Boston making the playoffs. Don’t see any other team that comes close. There’s some argument for hoping they are creating as a much distance between them and the Rays as possible.
That whole Reggie and the Mick comparison is an eye opener…but, our young Mr. Jackson doesn’t have anything near their power nor is he touted to have it later. Unless this was 10 years ago he more than likely wont hit more than 25 homers in a year. If I remember correctly he’s more on a line of a Cano, don’t quite see the comparison since Cano doesn’t K an awful lot.
Tampa is the amidst of a run right now. If you take out that disastrous Cleveland series (where they haven’t won since 2005), they have won 13 of 17 games. They have won or split 10 of their last 12 series.
They started off rough but have been hot lately.
It’s amazing how bad people’s attitudes get when we trail. You’d think they’d learn by now that we can come back against any team at any time, but no. Obviously down four nothing after four, the game is over. Down by two in the 9th, the game is over. If we trail at any point in any game, to many people, that game is over.
Ridiculous.
“The offense knows it has to score plenty of runs right from the outset and if Wang gives up a 4 spot in the 1st… it just deflates everyone.”
I can give you 19 examples of the Yankees not being deflated because they were losing.
dennis-costanza
June 5th, 2009 at 2:24 pm
GB7.
All is well in Midway today? Hot?
All this Joba debate?? I think after his start earlier in the week he should now go back to the bullpen…..especially for next week!
Cheers,
-dennis
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Afternoon, Dennis. Hope all is well with you and the little lady. Hopefully the Red Sox all have the 10 day flu.
Midway is alright, but, you left something behind when you smuck out of town. Come back here and take this rain back to New England where it belongs.
Werent some of you guys the same ones who thought we would get swept by Texas? I cant understand how some are already predicting us to lose future series when we dont just rely on our pitching to win games. Last i checked we were 2nd in offense, with alex not even all there yet.
Thanks fellas for the College baseball info.
wave your hat-
the rays run scored/runs allowed differential is the second best in baseball.
their record should be better than it shows.
randy, was Wang’s stride more consistent with the long one he needs to throw the sinker yesterday?
“Because it’s so simple, it’s mildly bizarre that more than a year after his brief run in relief ended there are still people who are passionately convinced that Chamberlain should be working out of the bullpen. Some of this is just contrived; some, like the insane ranting of New York City radio host Mike Francesca, is just *comical*. A lot of it, though, is sincere, which is what can make it so frustrating. Because when you run through the arguments, there’s nothing there.”
You mean that we aren’t the only ones who laugh at Francessa Joba rants? Good to know!
when you ***snuck*** out of town
Damned you, MainYankee. you’ve infected my computer with your typing errors. It’s making it look like yours.
Bill X, that doesn’t mean the Cleveland series didn’t occur.
Steve B (Wouldn’t it be cool if AJ’s ERA was 3.14), I still don’t get it. That would mean the Sox are hoping the team in front of them wins just so the team behind them falls back? I see where you’re going with this, but the Sox are playing for first. So are the Yaanks and Rays. Wild card will be used by the team that can’t quite get there.
Santana is 4-1 with a 3.15 ERA against us in his career (7 starts).
He is 3-0 with a 2.05 ERA at Yankee Stadium (30 innings, 7 runs.
He has Halladay-like dominance against us.
Last year the Rays +/- didn’t match up to their record, there are always exceptions to that. the Blue Jays seem to always play below their run differential, I used to be a big proponent of it. But, after last year I’ve softened on it.
I’d love to see us take 3/4 from Tampa to end the home stand at 5-2 heading into Fenway.
Kind of hard to pull out a 4 game sweep to a last place team though and say they are “on a roll”, isn’t it?
If the Yankees were swept 4 games last weekend in Cleveland some folks here would have been suicidal.
Unless Tampa can get their pitching, both starters and bullpen, straightened out, and get healthy, its going to be tough for them to stay in it all year with the Yankees and Red Sox.
XFactor
June 5th, 2009 at 2:34 pm
Santana is 4-1 with a 3.15 ERA against us in his career (7 starts).
He is 3-0 with a 2.05 ERA at Yankee Stadium (30 innings, 7 runs.
He has Halladay-like dominance against us.
*~*~*~*~*~
considering he’s been getting terrible run support and the Mets BP is terible, I’m not as concerned
randy-
I guess I’m glad the Rays are underperforming their pythagorean projections!
Amazing their runs scored differential given their injuries. I hadn’t noticed that.
New thread.
You play the teams on your schedule, you win the games on your schedule.
that’s all there is to it.
In the standings, on paper, we don’t see that the Yankees are 32-22 but 0-5 against Boston so it doesn’t count as much.
All that counts is 32-22.
Beckett has a 1.86 ERA in his last 6 starts.
Boston’s bullpen has the best bullpen ERA in baseball.
These are not the Cleveland Indians or Minnesota Twins. Not going to be easy at all to rally if Wang puts is in a hole.
GB7.
I was just hitting google for a definition of the word “smuck”…I will stop now. I figured it was adverb describing a slimy move by a Sox fan. I am relieved now.
-dennis
I’m not scared of Boston. They’re not an easy match, but they’re human. Our comebackers can come back against anybody. Darn the stats. We’ve come back against the Sox, just at times when our bullpen blew it (still bad, but improved from then anyway) or our starters got absolutely tattooed (world of difference there).
SJ44
June 5th, 2009 at 2:23 pm
GB,
Funny isn’t it? Folks are already getting themselves into a lather over a series that isn’t even here yet.
Its as if they are practicing their cries for the game threads as soon as the Yankees fall behind in games.
If some of you are so sure the Yankees are in “trouble” in Boston, why watch the games? Just decide they are losses and move on.
You will save yourselves a lot of aggrevation.
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I’m waiting for somebody to start complaining tomorrow about the lineup that’s posted on 6 June, 2010. It’s not far off.
I see that Red sox fan, Dennis is here causing trouble and promoting Chamberlain for the bullpen.
Personally, I think the Sox should use Beckett for the 6th inning, Paplebon in the 7th inning, Youkilis off the bench and Pedroia as the utility dwarf.
dennis-costanza
June 5th, 2009 at 2:37 pm
GB7.
I was just hitting google for a definition of the word “smuck”…I will stop now. I figured it was adverb describing a slimy move by a Sox fan. I am relieved now.
-dennis
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Typical Red Sox fan….making fun of the typing challenged. Next thing you know, you’ll want us bussed to Mavis Bacon’s typing school….as long as it’s in our neighborhood.
Yanks have faced Beckett enough that he almost never has an easy game against them. If Wang can hold them to 3-4 runs, they have a decent chance.
GB7.
Wow. well played. Huge laugh. Man, you must have slept good last night. Thanks for the laugh.
the rays are getting hit hard by the injury bug & don’t have the money to cover them.
prospects also take time to mature.price is also on a strict pitch count.
last year they had very few injuries & a lot of players played well all year.
“I see where you’re going with this, but the Sox are playing for first. So are the Yaanks and Rays.
I’d argue you play to make the postseason and that how you get there is secondary….at best.
“Wild card will be used by the team that can’t quite get there.”
That’s just it. The Wild Card DOES get there. Anyone think the Florida Marlins or Boston are apologizing for winning it all as a Wild Card? You think Don Mattingly didn’t relish his one and only opportunity for postseason glory because it came as a Wild Card?
It’s all about making the tournmament as one Bill Parcells used to say.
dennis-costanza
June 5th, 2009 at 2:47 pm
GB7.
Wow. well played. Huge laugh. Man, you must have slept good last night. Thanks for the laugh.
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Happy to give you a chuckle, Dennis. We get a lot from you.
We also get a lot chuckles from watching the Celtics trying to play basketball.
1 thing i do not understand is if the red sux are so good why do the yhave a losing record on the road? and why are they tied with the yankees, who have no pen and based on some of the fans on this blog are not that good?
boston has there whole lineup except jed lowrie who is a rookie so this is there lineup…
injured players coming back are john smoltz who is 40 or 42 yrs old, and they have some good arms in the minors, this is there team, again why are they tied with the yanks??????
Stuart:
Your English teacher should be flogged.
to lazy to deal wit hcapitalizing, grammer ,etc..
the point is still the point…
but you are correct my english teachers of many years ago would be appaled.
“the point is still the point…”
Yeah, it is. However, I’d bet the house that the Red Sox, who are getting little more than really good hitting pitcher numbers from Ortiz, will add a significant bat before long. Probably a SS too. SS won’t necessarily hit much but can….well, actually play SS.
What’s the big deal about being 0-5 vs. Boston ?
Sabathia and Teixeira were still getting adjusted as Yankees. A-Rod was in Colorado rehabbing.
The remaining 13 games will not be the same. Collectively, the Yankees have found themselves as teammates.