Stop making sense
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Jun 05, 2009 
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It’s always fun when somebody takes the “Joba belongs in the bullpen!!!!” argument and shoots big gaping holes in it.
Atta boy, Tim Marchman.
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Meanwhile, 300+ people have sent questions for CC Sabathia. That’s one for every pound. Unless you’re one of the great philosophers of our time, feel free not to keep e-mailing. I think we’re good. But I will keep the question window open until tomorrow as promised just in case.
Joba to the pen really doesn’t make sense. I’m a convert. When I saw the Joba starter arguement, couldn’t deny the logic.
For those of you with or at least are familiar with Sports Illustrated I just found something that pretty much cinches the fact that Selena Roberts is full of crap in her Arod book at least. Every issue on the last page has a one page ed op, used to be Rick Reilly’s gig. Now they have a guest writer every week in a rotation, like Phil Taylor, Chris Ballard; where they show a drawn picture of the writer and By “John Doe” on top of the page. The May 26th issue with Lebron on the cover has a Selena Roberts piece but there is no name next to her picture. I looked back at the last 5 or 6 issues and the new ones since, none have a picture with no name, they all have both. Her name is mud and they’re trying to keep their readers from associating her name with the magazine.
There is no other way to read this (but if you can think of any Pete, you’re the pro,let us know), no way that it’s just a coincidence!
mike – i’d make sure they didn’t post an apology in a subsequent issue for the error
QUICK!! Someone tak ethat article, make a 1000 copies and force Francessa to read it!
What this guy doesn’t point out is that Joba’s career ERA now is 3.12.
It’s only going to get better. And then, even assuming he’s as brilliant as Mo, he’ll still be a more valuable starter.
“I love the Yankees but pedroia will always be better than any player we have on the team, I mean come. A-rod sucks, cano only hits when there is no pressure and Teixeira looks like he needs some medication every on e in a while. I want to normal baseball players, is’t too much to ask?”
do you live in boston or one of the surrounding cities?
so I take it no one noticed when I posted the link to this article 2 threads ago
“Curious to see if Longoria is still bothered by his hamstring this weekend”
If they get the game in tonight, Longoria’s chances of playing have to decrease because a wet field and first day back from a hamstring injury are not a good combo.
It’s the FAULT of the Yankees! They should have NEVER let him pitch in the pen to begin with. Had they NOT done that, he would be a starter by nature and MIDGES wouldn’t be a household name in Cleveland/Yankee games.
Either way, Joba belongs as a starter for now and if/when Mariano retires AND Joba gets hurt enough to place him in the pen, he deserves every start he gets.
Rishi, I missed it…good pick up and kudos for unearthing it.
no worries, DB – it’s one of those “does anybody hear me” moments
Well, Pedroia is on the cover of MLB The Show 09..of course he still can’t hit a high fastball.
Great point, Pat. Taking his bat out of the lineup would be a big blow for Tampa tonight
Rishi
June 5th, 2009 at 3:02 pm
no worries, DB – it’s one of those “does anybody hear me” moments
I have plenty here..lol
come on, francesa can’t read. that article would have no effect on him.. the man is so full of nonsensical jibberish.
Awesome Talking Heads reference, Pete. I’ve had that flick on an almost continuous loop lately.
Can’t get enough of ‘Thank You For Sending Me An Angel’ and ‘Slippery People’
Well played.
According to the Radar from weather.com there is a window between the 2 storms
Hey, any of you guys check out Melky’s clutch stats this year?
They’re insane.
Pedroia is a good hitter on the road but a great hitter in Fenway. He’s the Fred Lynn of his generation in that he hits 60 points higher in Fenway. He also has nearly twice as many doubles at home than on the road. The splts for Cano, on the other hand, are pretty even. Cano is actually a little better hitter on the road than he has been at home.
He really took every point and burned it, next time someone goes with the Joba crap just put a link to that article. Case closed.
hardwired,
You should check out the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame annex in SoHo.They have David Byrne’s Big White Suit that he wore in the Stop Making Sense movie.
The funniest part of that story is how he completely debunks the Francesa hysterics. Somebody ought to e-mail that story to Mike so he can lose his mind on the air when he reads it.
“Hey, any of you guys check out Melky’s clutch stats this year?
They’re insane.”
.483 BA/.500 OBP/.690 SLG/1.190 OPS Late and Close
.321 BA/.387 OBP/.643 SLG/1.030 OPS Tie Game
Wow.
pedroia is the fred lynn of his generation? maybe but with ortiz, the Paul lynde of his generation, the lineup evens out.
Rishi
June 5th, 2009 at 2:58 pm
so I take it no one noticed when I posted the link to this article 2 threads ago
Pete noticed
VB03: http://bit.ly/PEUhw
The late and close particularly astounds me.
That’s a great article, definitely worth reading twice. Someone should read it to Francaca on-air.
“Hey, any of you guys check out Melky’s clutch stats this year?
They’re insane.”
.483 BA/.500 OBP/.690 SLG/1.190 OPS Late and Close
.321 BA/.387 OBP/.643 SLG/1.030 OPS Tie Game
Wow.
========================
He’ll never be a prototypical corner OF or CF, so he’ll have to be extraordinary to ever lose the “4th outfielder” rap, but if he learns to carry the discipline and focus he seems to have for those situations to all his AB’s but he could a good everyday major league player.
pedroia has 2 hr & 21 rbi.last year he hit 17 hr & 83 rbi’s in 653 at bats.
i know that they are not the only numbers that factor in & i think he is a great 2nd baseman but cano has 9 hr & 32 rbi’s & last year hit 14 hr’s & 72 rbi’s in 597 at bats rolling out of bed.
he can’t come close to putting up elite 2nd baseman numbers like cano,utley,etc…
Look at Jerome Preisler’s article. Why are the Yankees coming back? Ask Melky. He knows. The spirits are back. They’ve noticed the Yankees were struggling in early May, tying games and losing them late, or getting blown out, and they realized that that was not the Yankees. So the next time you see Melky get a big hit or HR, just imagine Ruth swinging the bat with him.
“Cano is actually a little better hitter on the road than he has been at home.”
This year he’s a lot better on the road than at home. He’s 200+ OPS points better away from the Stadium. In fact his home numbers are flat out bad.
His road numbers are ridiculously strong though.
“VB03: http://bit.ly/PEUhw
The late and close particularly astounds me.”
Thanks, Rebecca. It was stunning.
“Quite simply, right now, in 2009, if you want the Yankees to get a clutch hit, late in the ball game in a close game, you don’t want Alex Rodriguez or Mark Teixeira or even Jorge Posada batting.
You want the Melkman.”
Hell yeah.
http://deepinthered.mlblogs.co.....t-pie.html
Preisler’s article.
I like it. Say hi to the spirits for me Melky.
“I love the Yankees but pedroia will always be better than any player we have on the team”
yup, you can’t beat a player that gets those 63 rbis a year like clock work year in and year out.
SJ44, I guess that Tony, you & the family now play out the waiting game……Hell, he’s a first rounder and that’s an incredible accomplishment….Now it’s all about which club needs him in 2-3 years……Hang tough and just ride it out and soak it all in….It’s a great time right now……
vb03: No problem.
Wang vs. Sox: thanks for that link. I’m a huge believer in baseball ghosts. It’s part of the attraction for me.
There are way, way better players than Pedroia on the Yankees (A-Rod, Tex, and Jeter cough), but Pedroia is a great player.
No problem Rebecca.
“that article would have no effect on him.. the man is so full of nonsensical jibberish.”
Yeah, he’d just respond with some idiotic rant.
Drive 4-5
I’ve also heard they have David Byrne’s hand-written lyrics to Road To Nowhere.
I will DEFINITELY be checking that out.
i heard longoria is not playing tonight & it is supposed to rain like crap over ny until 6:oo
should get it in.
the marchman analysis was perfect. again the only potential reason to put joba in the pen would be when he is getting close to his innings limit, the bullpen is a total wreck, and all of the potantial pen reinforcements are hurt or just failing miserably with many opptys.
I was lucky enough to see the ghosts in action…Johnny’s walk off. I could just see, swinging the bat with Johnny, the ghost of Mickey Mantle swinging with him.
People forget Melky was clutch there too. Game tying sac fly in the seventh.
Richard Jacobs, one of the Jacobs Brothers that owned the Indians through 2001 and helped build Jacobs Field and probably saved baseball in Cleveland died at age 84.
The way the weather looks, and the radar, I don’t have a whole lot of hope they’ll play tonight.
Personally, I think Francesa’s going to be out of a job before his contract is up unless they make serious changes to the show. Russo brought some lightness to the show that has been sorely missing. Now it’s just an angry old man without a lot to say.
“The way the weather looks, and the radar, I don’t have a whole lot of hope they’ll play tonight.”
Optimist Prime indeed.
At this point in the season, one could argue that Melky has gone from our #5 outfilder to #1.
DJ is a close second…
Pat M,
Thanks. That’s all we are doing now. He got invited to NYC by MLB to be on the draft show. So far, only Mike Trout (NJ HS OF) has accepted the invitation.
He would rather stay home but, we’ll talk about it this weekend.
We will probably have an idea of where he’s going by Sunday night, perhaps Monday morning.
He had a great workout at KC yesterday. They pick #12 and they really like him.
BTW, great call on Tyler. You were on him before anybody in MLB or in the agent community.
I’m hearing he won’t get past Baltimore at #5. That kid is going to make a ton of cash in the next few days.
Also, if he goes to Baltimore, they are assembling one terrific group of young arms. They are going to be very good by 2012.
if the game get postponed,CC will go to the mound on a 6 day rest
this can mess up something, no?
Logic makes BBTN talkingheads cry.
/Wiggum’d
Maybe Kay and Mike F. can team up to clear up the weather. Put all that hot air to good use.
Damon’s our number 1 outfielder. He’s been really clutch too.
No way they should play this game in the rain. That’s how people get hurt. Last thing we need to do put our ace out their in the rain and if it gets stopped when we waste his start.
Steve B: It’s optimistic to think that if they do call the game you don’t risk players getting hurt from playing on a wet field.
The SI article called Joba’s performance thus far “brilliant.”
Let’s be fair here….he has been anything but. He has a low ERA – yes, I know. He has great stuff. But he has not been brilliant. He rarely gets through 6 innings and the Yankees are .500 in his starts.
He is more valuable to the Yankee this year in our pen because our pen is brutal. Next year, and going forwards I hope he becomes our ace – or our #2 starter. But in 2009 I want to win a championship and I think Joba in the pen gives us the best chance.
Anybody that’s even breathing the name Mickey Mantle in the same breath with Austin Jackson or Cabrera, needs to be dropped off at Belleview and just forgotten. Jackson will do well to get close to Bobby Murcer/Bernie Williams career. If Cabrera’s lucky, he might close in on Roy White numbers.
Pete, this argument by the SI guy has no true direction. It’s more unstable than Milton Bradley.
SJ.
Congrats.
Talk about a fun few days. You must be proud as I know you have bought that catching equipment for years. BC and the cash coming soon more than make up for the snub by Miami. They passed on a first rounder. I look forward to seeing where he goes.
Cheers.
-dennis
And you may find yourself living in a shotgun shack
And you may find yourself in another part of the world
And you may find yourself behind the wheel of a large automobile
And you may find yourself in a beautiful house, with a beautiful wife
And you may ask yourself
Well…How did I get here?
game thread up
dennis-costanza
June 5th, 2009 at 2:47 pm
GB7.
Wow. well played. Huge laugh. Man, you must have slept good last night. Thanks for the laugh.
——————————————————————————————
Happy to give you a chuckle, Dennis. We get a lot from you.
We also get a lot chuckles from watching the Celtics trying to play basketball.
“At this point in the season, one could argue that Melky has gone from our #5 outfilder to #1.”
Still Damon. At least offensively. Better numbers and he produces a little something on the road. It’s great that Melky has taken advantage of the friendly confines though.
Damon has hit at an allstar level. I think we’re elevating Melky a bit more than is due simply because he’s defying expectations.
“Next year, and going forwards I hope he becomes our ace – or our #2 starter. But in 2009 I want to win a championship and I think Joba in the pen gives us the best chance.”
If you’re hoping his development continues to the point that he becomes an ace or a #2 – you don’t stunt his growth and gaining the endurance he needs to go deeper in games.
That’s what you’re doing by putting him in the bullpen. Your statement is a contradiction in itself.
“Steve B: It’s optimistic to think that if they do call the game you don’t risk players getting hurt from playing on a wet field.”
Ah! Always the sunnyside spin. Well done.
francesa needs max kellerman to bring an edge back to the show. right now it’s dull.
Can’t resist Rebecca, So its optimistic to think that if they play someone will get hurt?
So Evan,
Do you not grasp the concept that in order for Joba to become an Ace, he has to be able to pitch over 200 innings?
Tell me how you put him in the pen for the rest of the season this year, and then automatically expect him to come in next season and be ready to pitch 200 innings. You do that and you’re going to run into serious injury issues.
Seriously, wake up, please. If you don’t commit to him as a starter this year, it’s not going to happen.
http://yes.mlblogs.com/archive.....eling.html
The fact that the Yankees are 32-22 and tied for first place is nice enough. How they continue to find ways to win along with an unshakable confidence that there’s always a chance to win is one of the remarkable storylines of the season. Even during an eventual loss Wednesday night, cameras caught A.J. Burnett gesturing to his teammates, “That’s one,” after Jorge Posada’s seventh-inning home run trimmed the Yankees’ deficit from three to two.
There’s an amazing vibe around the team that has carried over to every game. Melky Cabrera’s eighth-inning heroics on Thursday led the Yankees to their league-leading 19th come-from-behind victory and it was the second time they rallied from down at least four runs.
“I think our club feels that we could come back at any time,” said Joe Girardi. “Sometimes when we don’t get it done we feel like, ‘Wow, we didn’t get it done.’ There is confidence in that clubhouse. Keep us close and give us a chance.”
***I LOVE this feeling of confidence that the Yankees have, the belief that they can overcome any deficit. It doesn’t matter if they actually win the game or not – each time they come back in some form, it’s just more fuel for their fire. The talent is unquestionable on this team, but a lot of teams have talent (well, not like the Yankees, but still…) – this team has talent and guts. They have bonded so well – I find it hard to separate their performance from their togetherness because I do believe the latter has a lot to do with it.
Vb03 took the words out of my mouth. You just can’t have it both ways. We’ve been jerking him back and forth way too often. He needs to build arm strength and endurance.
BTW, a lot of people discount Joba’s value as a starter because he generally doesn’t give the Yankees length. This is by design. Young arms blow out if they throw too many pitchess too earlier in their careers. Once he has built up arm strength, the Yankees will keep him in the game longer. He’s not being pulled early due to ineffectiveness. He’s being pulled as a prudent precautionary major.
Patience guys. Joba’s is a potential gold mine for Yankee fans. Really, he has the potential to be the single most valuable thing in all of baseball: a young shut-down ace who is years away from free agency (and big bucks). For 2010-2012, he could be CC without the huge ass contract.
Let’s not throw it away because we think he can be Scott Shields for the 2009 Yankees.
thanks for sharing this pete.
i forwarded this to some of the more clueless yankee fans i know (aka, dad)
I don’t see why it has to be an either/or, he’s on a pitch count and innings limit for the year, put him in the pen when/if the Yanks make the playoffs. Win now, make him a starter for the next 10 years, afterwards. The merchman fella is just repeating what everyone except fat mike has been saying.
I agree Yankeesfan718, Kellerman or Teirney, would help the show, Adam the Bull isnt bad either. I can’t/won’t listen to that Mike anymore, and Kay is insufferable, rather listen to bloomberg business.
Well to Pete Joba in the pen means Joba’s a failed starter or failed pitcher.
Can’t wait for Pete to grow some plums and say that Mo and Goose Gossage are failed pitchers.
Mo is a failed starting pitcher and Goose was a great starter but got old and was only able to be good for a few innings.
In all of professional sports, there are few, if any teams with such high, pressure-filled expectations…
Joba Chamberlain has proven that in the spotlight, on the biggest stage, he can be absolutely lights out late in a game.
Instead of replacing Mariano Rivera with this bullpen weapon, who will be the next closer for the New York Yankees? I don’t remember reading the part where he shoots big holes into that argument…
I’ve made Marchman’s argument about the pay of relievers vs. starters on this blog for the last 2 yrs. Joba would be crazy to want to go to the Pen. Clearly GMs value starters more. As Marcham says, there are 8 who make more than the best reliever in history. If Joba is a 1 and plays for the Yanks, they’ll pay him — $20 mil + in current dollars. Let’s assume he gets a 6 yr deal for that much when he is free agent eligible, in current dollars that $30 mil more than he’d make as a reliever. More innings. More value. Gotta wonder why the Red Sux hold Papelbum in such low esteem to keep him in the pen. They must know his weaknesses.