Are you worried about Mariano Rivera?
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It was only one game. But Mariano Rivera is 0-2 with a 3.47 ERA and has allowed 26 hits in 23.1 innings. Seven of those hits have been for extra bases, two fewer than he allowed all of last season.
Rivera has a 13.49 ERA and a blown save in five appearances against the Rays and the Red Sox.
But while the hits are up, he has one unintentional walk and has struck out 28.
My vote is no, not worried. I think these blips are natural as Mo ages, but he’s still better than almost every other closer out there, including Jon Papelbon, who has his own issues with hits and walks. It seems like Mo as a few of these every year then you look up four weeks later and he at 1.79 and blowing people away.
But if you are worried, it’s hard to argue after seeing him walk off that mound today.
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Chad Jennings
Sam Borden
Josh Thomson
curious, what are Mariano’s career stats in no save situations? Wasn’t he brutal in them last year as well?
He’s 37 years old. Worried? I would be stunned if he didn’t falter here and there.
No one is invincible forever. For Mo, that invincibility ended in 2001.
Furthermore, no one is great forever. Mo is still a great closer, but he isn’t head and shoulders above the pack anymore. He is still top 5 though.
People are just going to have to get used to the idea that Mo isn’t gonna be around much longer.
What I would be worried about is what Cash is going to do about the bullpen. Because above all other issues this team has, this is the one that seems like it will either keep the Yanks out of the playoffs or knock them out in the 1st round again.
In Mo’s post game interview, he seemed to be in a bit of denial. He said that he hit his spots and they just put the ball in play. Well, if he had *really* hit his spots, wouldn’t they have missed those pitches or at least put the ball in play where someone could have fielded the balls? He just seemed to not want to admit that he kinda stunk today. I guess it’s hard to be the greatest in the world and then not have a great day.
Oh and people need to realize how volitaile closers are. It is rare for teams to have a great closer that lasts more than 3-5 years without falling apart.
Look at Brad Lidge. He was acending to the status of best closer in the NL a few years ago. Then he got Albert’d in the NLCS. He got it together in Philly for a season, went 80 for 80 in save opportunities last year, and can’t get people out this year.
Hell, Papelbon looks like he isn’t going to be a bona-fide elite closer for much longer and he is 10 years younger than Mo.
Rivera is the greatest pitching anomoly I’ve ever seen. But he’s hittable every now and then at this point, but things could be a lot worse.
is Ian Kinsler jewish?
“is Ian Kinsler jewish?”
Doris, where have you been? That’s like asking if Alex likes going to strip clubs.
Hey Laura,
Despite his placcid demeanor, Rivera has an ego. Just like all great players. A little bit of denial is part of that.
It’s the same reason Jeter has played short since A-Rod got here, even though Alex was a better defender at the time.
People who are great have something of an ego. Or else they wouldn’t be great.
Thomas, I hate to nit pick your post, but the comment of mo’s invincibility being lost after the 01 season is completely ridiculous. I hate to bring up flashbacks, but there was really one hard hit ball that whole inning, and there were multiple double play balls missed.
He disappears against our rivals, just like the rest of the team
2-9 against them, Mariano Rivera recorded the loss in 3 of those 9 games.
Doris: Ian Kinsler is one of my peeps. As are Ryan Braun and Kevin Youkilis.
Yeah, I worry about Mo. He’s a 39 y/o closer coming off of shoulder surgery. You’d be crazy not to worry.
I’m not worried about Mo. That being said I hope Girardi doesn’t bring him into a tie game for awhile. Especially if Sabathia is sitting on the bench after dominating for the past few innings.
“Despite his placcid demeanor, Rivera has an ego. Just like all great players. A little bit of denial is part of that.”
Thomas, I’m sure he does. But usually in his interviews after he hasn’t performed up to standards, he usually owns up to it and says that he didn’t do his job. This is the first time I’ve seen this denial show up in his interview.
Well right now, the bullpen is pretty much our only weakness. Yes, the rotation has issues esp. Wang and Andy. The offense seems to score in bunches and not consistently.
But the biggest problem is the bullpen. We have no middle relief, to go along with a declining closer who is no longer automatic. Considering we have so few issues, yes, MO is a concern. We have nobody else in our bullpen who is any good. If our closer isin’t invincible anymore, then we’re really screwed. Tampa’s breathing down our neck.
They call Ryan Braun the Hebrew Hammer. He’s one of my favorite players, been following that kid for awhile now.
I think all the panic over the fading of Mo is compounded by the volatility of his supporting cast. We watch his velocity drop while his movement weakens and there is no bridge to him and no one to take his place in sight.
Crappy situation.
Mo is one of the last things I’m worried about with this team.
Jon, it doesn’t matter HOW it happened. But the fact is, he got beat. To that point, from 1998-2000, Mo was INVINCIBLE. No one could touch him in the posteason. Arizona pierced that armor forever.
Rivera didn’t get demonstrably worse afterward, but once a seemingly infallible foe is proven to be fallible, that changes things.
Thomas Anderson summed it up well. Despite what we all want to believe, Mo is human. We remember his failures, they seem so shocking to us, because he has been money so often and for so long. But, whether it’s 1997 playoff against Cleveland, or 2001 in Phoenix, or 2004 against Boston, or these blips last year and this, he is human.
Pete is right; it would not be a surprising at all if, a month from now, this is all forgotten and we all wonder why Cash didn’t have the foresight to sign Mo to a five year contract last year, instead of three. But right now, it’s like our world got knocked off it’s axis.
But, baseball is a game of redemption. There’s another game tomorrow, and in a little more than 15 hours, we’ll be locked in again. I think some Jobber guy is pitching.
Not worried but he keeping a eye on. A 80% Mo is better then 80% of the closers out there but there is still no reason to settle and allow him to be 80% effective.
it’s simpler than that. he doesn’t do well against the AL East because they seem the most often. it’s not like mo has tons of variety in his pitches. because they’ve seen him so much, he’s just not as effective.
37???
he is 39
The key to the Yanks’ bullpen fix are these two guys:
Brian Bruney and Mark Melancon
If Bruney can come back and be effective and if Mark can straighten himself out and be effective in the majors, then things will work themselves out as far as the pen is concerned.
Damaso Marte seems to be persona non grata these days, so if he comes back and can get lefties out, then I consider that gravy.
Is this a huge leap of faith to hope that Bruney and Melancon come back effectively? Sure it is. But if the team gets them both back, then the pen will work itself out. If so, Cash will only have to deal for 1 reliever than possibly 2 at the deadline.
I’m not worried about Mariano versus the teams that don’t see him often. Because of the overweight intra-division schedule I do worry about him when he faces AL East teams that have seen him a lot. I don’t have the stats to back it up but would like to see them if someone can access that easily.
Hmm, my post didn’t go through. Well, here goes again. I’m only a teeny bit worried about Mo, mostly due to his -ahem- “advanced age,” and the fact that he did have surgery. But overall, I think he will be effective for this team. We may have to get used to his having a few less-than-extraordinary outings as he falls down to earth a bit. I’d still rather have him than anyone else.
Doug – if you here, it was my DAUGHTER who had a game tonight. No sons in this household.
My husband often says God knew what he was doing – I’d never have survived sons. 
bodhisattva – I forget about Bonnie Blue.
Bruney’s health is too big of a question mark and Melancon doesn’t look ready to handle late inning pressure. I don’t want to see patchwork anymore with this bullpen. I want to see strong solutions from Cashman.
My original post, the one that didn’t go through, also mentioned that I wasn’t too surprised that the Red Sox and Rays may have Mo’s number – they see him so often. At the very least the Red Sox seem to do okay against him and have for a while, I think. So, I agree with those of you who pointed that out, as well.
Cashman should get Huston Street. Lets trade Veras for him!
Worried might be a bit strong but I would be more vigilant in where, when and how he’s used.
i think pat venditte should go up to Tampa like now. He has nothing else to prove there
I want to see strong solutions from Cashman
__________________________________________________
Instead Cashman will go out and sign Jamie Walker. Cash loves shopping in the clearance bins.
If Bruney can come back and be effective. Key word is if.
Melancon may not be ready for the majors.
Then what will Cashman do?
Somewhere Mike Francessa is grinning from ear to ear. He loves these bullpen meltdowns.
pat -
I agree. It may not be an automatic thing to bring in Mo in some circumstances. The question then becomes, who?
On a scale of 1 to 10, 10 being “worried to death” I’m at a 5 right now.
39+ years old coming off shoulder surgery[even if minor]
Lives off one pitch, and its velocity is down.
Striking out batters, but not sawing off bats at usual rate.
Not beating the Rays or Red Sox.
Pete-
Maybe you know the answer to this. How many games did we lose when tied in the 7th, 8th or 9th inning?
Also yes, Robertson has given up only one hit in 4 innings since his return, but that one hit cost us a game, charged to Phil Coke!!
At this point I don’t see many teams out there, throwing in the towel with closers that would be of any use to us, except the Rockies or Diamondbacks.
Heath Bell is not trade bait-only making 1.255M.
Only hope for Veras is a trade to a team, taking on another struggling relief arm like an Aaron Heilman!!
You think Mo’s wife ever says “Hold me, dear!” and he says “Sorry, babe, I’m only really capable of saving you.”
“Cashman should get Huston Street. Lets trade Veras for him!”
Veras & Hughes might get that one done!
How could you not be?
39 yr old, coming off shoulder surgery, fluctuating velocity from game to game. Throws more cookies down the middle than he ever has. Tied his career high in HRs, with 2\3rds of a season left to go. Giving up more than a hit per inning, 7 for extra bases in 22 innings.
And it’s already June, he blew another game to a division rival with a series in Fenway (where he was shakey even when he was good), is looming.
How can you not be worried? He doesn’t look like himself at all.
Heath Bell’s salary being low is a moot point. The Padres want to load up with prospects and are obviously willing to sell off their ace pitcher to build a new foundation. Peavy means more to the team winning and filling the seats than Bell ever will and Bell is already 31 but just happens to be dominating all of baseball as a closer in 2009. He would be the perfect sell-high for them.
Adrian Gonzalez is a different story. He’s a big ticket draw like Peavy but his contract vs. ticket sales make him more of a keeper. They need to sell tickets true but they also need to reload. That’s where trading Peavy and Bell come in.
We have no bullpen what so ever. Couple that with a shaky closer and it is panic time
imperative that Cashman gets someone and someone GOOD like Street. We need a bridge to MO and a guy who can give MO a breather and pitch in tie games and such. A closer-type. Like what Putz was supposed to be for the Mets.
“My original post, the one that didn’t go through, also mentioned that I wasn’t too surprised that the Red Sox and Rays may have Mo’s number – they see him so often.”
Sounds much like Wang-teams learning to lay off the sinkers that look above the knees but break down, forcing him to bring up his pitches. Same with lefties poking hits to left field on the down and away pitches.
When lefties start hitting Rivera with regularity, then I’d be worried, real worried!!
Relievers who may be available
Houston Street
Kerry Wood
Chad Qualls
Tony Pena
Heath Bell
Jose Valverde
Matt Lindstrom
Leo Nunez
Manny Corpas
Francisco Cordero
Matt Capps
George Sherill
Octavio Dotel
Danny Baez
Tampa is looking for BP help too.
They’re going to be targeting the same guys we are. Cashman better not let them beat him to the punch.
Have you compared Mo’s and Papelbon’s stats this year? The only stats where Mo is better than Papelbon are walks and WHIP.
So, no, he isn’t better than Papelbon. Not right now.
Rivera per omnia saecula saeculorum
“Like what Putz was supposed to be for the Mets.”
The supposed to be is the problem. Who do you have more faith in than Mo to lock it down? The nature of relievers and most closers is the really good ones are no more reliable than a shaky Mo.
Lefties vs. MO this year
12 IP, 12 H, 2 HRs, .240 BAA
Considering the cost of any late inning reliever, the only guy on that list who doesn’t scare the crap out of me is Heath Bell. I’d be willing to take a long-term loss for a short term gain with him.
Did you know (he said this on MLB network) that when he faces a batter, he pretends the hitter did something to harm him and/or his family. That’s intensity.
Bret-
Padres need a lot, but mostly hitting prospects. Are you willing to trade Jackson for Heath Bell? Maybe Montero or Melancon?? Or were you thinking Coke and Robertson would do the trick?
Me,
You’re right. Papelbon, K-Rod, AND Nathan have eclipsed MO now. Those guys have may have eclipsed him a couple years ago actually, but it is official now.
Yes, I am WORRIED!
Why do people keep bringing up walks to support that MO is still the best?
Even when MO is 50 he isin’t going to walk anyone. That was never part of his game, and will never be apart of his game. His mechanics are too sound.
So of course, he is going to have a low WHIP. Look at other stats and you see that he has been less than dominant this year.
After this game… MO’s BAA is .271
Ouch.
Mo said in the post game that location wasn’t the problem. But the problem is even if he hits his spots the ball isn’t always cutting. The pitch to Upton wasn’t right over the plate but it didn’t cut at all. It is easy for a batter to redirect a low 90’s fastball. The pitches to Dillon and the lead off batter whatever his name is were right over the plate with no movement at all. The cutter action on the ball is very inconsistent.
bodhisattva – OPPC member – Destiny Wears Pinstripes
June 6th, 2009 at 10:18 pm
Rivera per omnia saecula saeculorum
=========
I am not worried.
Yankeetrader,
How can you say the Padres don’t need pitching prospects more than hitting prospects? They are fixing to trade their ace pitcher. Then what? Load the team with hitting prospects? That makes no sense.
Cashman needs to do something and SOON!
For ever and ever.
Bell and Street are the only ones who I would look at
Guys like Chad Qualls, Matt Capps, Wood, Dotel etc. won’t do much for us.
We need some QUALITY in the bullpen. We have enough mediocre arms.
anyone who has watched the games can see that Mo’s cutter has zero explosiveness this season. he’s not giving up bleeders and bloops now…balls are being crushed off him.
and his velocity is only 90-91 most games.
maybe the yanks just went through a very lucky stretch, pulling some games out late, and now that will even out and a slide is starting. the run differential is not good at all.
I could live with a
Bell/Street-Melancon-Bruney pen
bodhisattva – OPPC member – Destiny Wears Pinstripes
June 6th, 2009 at 10:26 pm
bodhisattva – OPPC member – Destiny Wears Pinstripes
June 6th, 2009 at 10:18 pm
Rivera per omnia saecula saeculorum
=====
I am not worried.
========
Some reasons to not be worried in the least:
26/1 – Insane K/BB ratio. Obviously won’t be quite that good all year, but he posted 77/6 last year. No issues with control whatsoever.
26.3% – Incredibly fluky HR/FB percentage. Over the previous seven years, it’s 6.6%. Last year, it was 7.5%. This is a sample-size fluke, folks. Rivera’s FB% is as stingy as ever, at 30.6%.
.334 – Just as fluky BAbip. With the better defense the Yanks have put together, this should normalize down to typical levels, although fluke seasons happen. Still, this is another thing that’s beyond Rivera’s control.
I guess the only real worrisome thing would be that his LD% is up, but that could also just as likely be a sample-size issue. Given that his other peripherals are all in line, I wouldn’t be too concerned about it.
And to answer your question – YES – I would include Melancon in a deal for Bell. Melancon is not the closer of the future for this team. Neither is Bell but he’s more of a sure thing (by far) to help us win a ring this year.
“Mo said in the post game that location wasn’t the problem”
Those pitches were right there on a tee.
He can’t get away with the same things at 89-91 that he could at 93-94.
His location is fine. The fluctuating velocity is the major concern. If he is going to live in the 90-91 range, than he isin’t going to be very effective.
MO’s cutter has 0 velocity, explosiveness, and his location is way off most of the time.
His cutter right now is basically a batting practice fastball. Little Leaguers can hit a flat 90 MPH cutter.
Tom in N.J.
June 6th, 2009 at 10:27 pm
For ever and ever.
=========
Yes.
Rivera used to be the king of broken bat bloopers
Now he is giving up lazers all over the place. It’s already June. It’s getting late, early.
I agree completely with Gary. I’m not concerned with anything except the velocity. An 89 MPH cutter is very hittable, no matter who is throwing it.
The thing is, there isn’t much you can do except let him build up arm strength (there’s a term I never want to hear again) and keep sending him out there.
One more outing like that and someone will suggest Hughes to the rotation, Wang to the 7th and 8th, and Joba the closer. Bank on it.
MO should really break out that changeup that he flashes every spring, right about now.
Bod,
I knew that 12 years of latin would have some use in the modern world.
Now, if only somebody would post in Old English.
Relievers who may be available
Houston Street- possibility, but will command good prospects
Kerry Wood- maybe, if the Indians pay 6M and take Veras off our hands!
Chad Qualls- had recent forearm stiffness like Bruney
Tony Pena- doubt if available
Heath Bell- willing to give up top hitting prospects for him?
Jose Valverde- injured and awful for 8M !
Matt Lindstrom- another Veras!!
Leo Nunez- Marlins will dump anyone making money
Manny Corpas- Has been awful
Francisco Cordero- Don’t think so-Reds still playing well
Matt Capps- Awful, overweight and overpaid!
George Sherill- Would take him, but not for Melancon or Montero!
Octavio Dotel- no thanks
Danny Baez- no thanks
What makes no sense is Girardi said earlier in the season that Mo was bad because he has to build up arm strength. But often Mo goes days at a time not pitching. If they really thought it was arm strength and not old age then Girardi would pitch him in games just to get some more innings for him. But he doesn’t do that. Also a telling sign was Girardi telling him to walk Longoria. When has that EVER happened in the past. Walking someone because he doesn’t think he can get him out??!! It was also pretty stupid, let Mo decide who he wants to pitch to. Longoria is not Babe Ruth or anything.
I think you have to have some concern with any pitcher who is nearing 40. Mo will never use any type of steroid to enhance his pitching so age could catch up to him. The Yanks need to establish that young gun for the 8th inning to eventually step up to the 9th inning when Mo retires.
Overall, I’m not worried about Mo and I’m confident in his abilities for 2009 and 2010, but age is not on his side.
Again Yankeetrader, sorry but I’m 100% positive the Padres can use some pitching prospects since they plan to trade their best starting pitcher.
But you keep trying to drag Austin Jackson and Jesus Montero into the conversation and pretend there’s no match between the Yankees and Padres.
“And to answer your question – YES – I would include Melancon in a deal for Bell. Melancon is not the closer of the future for this team. Neither is Bell but he’s more of a sure thing (by far) to help us win a ring this year.”
I dont know about Bell pitching in the A.L East. That has a Jay Witasick type of deal written all over it.
Rachel,
Arm strength is just an excuse IMO. They have no other solutions as to why he is struggling so they automatically think it is that. It is already June. How much more time does he need?
And the Longoria thing has to be embarrassing for MO. Then again, Longo has owned him and clearly MO had nothing today so strategically, it made sense but it looked bad.
“I dont know about Bell pitching in the A.L East.”
Would you rather the Rays be the ones to try him out only to realize that his league leading peripherals translate?
Bret–
Okay. I’m sold on Bell, but not to ransom the future.
His situational stats:
http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/p.....009/383399
Unless MO is Nolan Ryan, he wasn’t going to be throwing mid 90s into his early 40s.
Pitchers decline. Their velocity diminishes as they get older. MO is 39. He wasn’t going to be throwing 94 forever. I don’t think building up arm strength is going to get him to the mid 90s again. This is what he is at his age… and it’s not good. He can’t survive with a 90 MPH cutter with no explosiveness.
When was the last time Mo was lights out in a tie game? He just doesn’t have the same mentality on the mound when the game is tied since he’s been a closer. I wonder what his lifetime ERA is in just closing situations, it must be mind boggling.
It’s just amazing how much he has been heralded in the last 14 years yet he’s still taken for granted through all the fanfare. The interesting thing about it is that he’s been in so many big spots thanks to playing on a competitive team every year of his career, his bad days get magnified much more than the Lidge’s and Hoffmans of the world. He still has the greatest will in the history of sports as far as I’m concerned and as long as his arm is still attached (or surgically attached) to his body there’s really no one else I’d rather have out there in a big spot.
*Mo will adjust whatever he needs to get outs. We as fans* *have the exquisite honor to witness has mastery over the* *years. He’s a legend and future Hall of fame inductee 1st*
*round*.
In a pressure situation I feel great that he still pitches the ball!!!
How much longer do I have to see Phil Coke and Jose Veras?
Yankees to stream games in New York
From Maury Brown via Baseball Musings:
http://baseballmusings.com/?p=35311
I keep starting to right rebuttals to some of these posts, but, you know what? It’s kind of pointless. Sadly.
If you buy into the idea that the Yankees are supposed to win every game, sign every free agent, make very perfect trade, then nothing is every going to be enough.
And not for nothing, if Tampa gets a reliever that some of you covet, it does not necessarily mean that Cashman did not make a good offer. Past history shows that many teams will ask more to make a deal with the Yankees than elsewhere, but even more importantly, the Rays may actually have more in their system to give in a trade than the Yankees do.
Anyway.
“Tomorrow is another day.”
** write rebuttals
As others have said… we can analyze this and debate it till the cows come home, but the most important face is….
MO throwing 89-90-91 is NOT going to get it done consistently. Until he finds that missing velocity (which is no lock given his age), this is what he is. A guy who will be batting practice with 90 MPH cookies down the middle. He’ll still save more games than he’ll blow, but he is not going to be light out. He’ll be like any other decent closer.
Anyway, good night.
Good matchup tomorrow with Chamberlain and Garza.
AJ Burnett off till Tuesday. He could have served the suspension already and not missed a start!
Tom in N.J.
June 6th, 2009 at 10:34 pm
Bod,
I knew that 12 years of latin would have some use in the modern world.
Now, if only somebody would post in Old English.
====
LOL. Can’t help you there. But I’m jealous of the 12 years of latin
Sounds like Mo being somewhat defensive caught some of the media off guard. Both Newsday and this account seem to take a similiar tact on the situation.
http://www.northjersey.com/spo.....ongue.html
If Tampa gets Heath Bell… turn out the lights. Come back next year.
Boston is the best of these 3 teams, they’ll be in the playoffs.
Then it comes down to us and Tampa and which team addresses their BP woes. If Tampa does, they’ll likely be the ones going to the dance.
“Bret—
Okay. I’m sold on Bell, but not to ransom the future.”
I think the future is CC, Wang, Joba, Hughes and Brackman for pitchers. The future for hitters is Cano, Melky, Jackson and Montero. I think we can get Heath Bell without dealing any of those guys. We have plenty of solid pitching prospects to deal to SD after they gut the foundation of their starting rotation by trading Peavy.
We have a solid young core of players that can help us win without the likes of McAllister, Melancon, Betances, De La Rosa, Christian Garcia, Ian Kennedy etc. etc.
We need to win now. It’s been almost a decade.
MO being defensive is a concern. Usually, he is so even keel after losses. You can’t tell whether or not he won or lost.
MO was obviously upset about this game. It was just a regular season game in June, and he didn’t even blow the save.
Is he worried that his velocity still hasn’t come back?
Forget Bell from the Padres.
“AJ Burnett off till Tuesday. He could have served the suspension already and not missed a start!”
Wasn’t assessed til Thursday. With the rainout yesterday, he’d be looking at Thursday for his next start.
pat-
Klapisch failed to mention in his article that Rivera came into the 9th inning to pitch to the bottom of the Rays order. If you were betting on his success in that situation, you couldn’t lose that bet. Right??
Doreen is right-”Tomorrow is a new day.”
“If Tampa gets Heath Bell… turn out the lights. Come back next year.”
B/c thier SP is better than ours ?
“Boston is the best of these 3 teams, they’ll be in the playoffs.”
Last I check we are right there w/ them w/ a subpar BP.
“Then it comes down to us and Tampa and which team addresses their BP woes. If Tampa does, they’ll likely be the ones going to the dance.”
Another great astute evaluation.
Marte/Bruney will soon return, Veras will be DFA’d, Melancon will be up here. Heath Bell guarantees nothing, he cracks under pressure, Street is not worth hitting prospects or Melancon. Again Bipolar Yankee fans check the standings last I checked we aren’t struggling that much.
We have such a good team, but the bullpen is a major weakness.
We have nobody to get to MO and MO himself is not what he once was.
When you are so good and only have one weakness, you do what you need to do to address it– period. Give up what you need to for a dominant reliever. Obviously don’t give up Hughes/Montero/Jackson, but anyone else is fair game. McAllister should not stop you from adding a dominant setup reliever to a WS caliber team.
If not, watch Tampa get a reliever and overtake us in the division.
So, Jobber tomorrow. Hopefully we get a performance like his previous outing in Cleveland.
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/articl.....Id=rss_nyy
Eat your Wheaties tomorrow morning Joba
Yes, because Bruney has shown a great health track record
And Marte showed us a lot as a Yankee so far.
Melancon is struggling in AAA as Beret poined out.
I really hope Cashman isin’t as naive as the fans. You are one BP piece away from being the best team in baseball. You do what you have to to fix that pen.
-
“I think the future is CC, Wang, Joba, Hughes and Brackman for pitchers. The future for hitters is Cano, Melky, Jackson and Montero. *I think we can get Heath Bell without dealing any of those guys*. We have plenty of solid pitching prospects to deal to SD after they gut the foundation of their starting rotation by trading Peavy.”
Nice but you can’t.
“We have a solid young core of players that can help us win without the likes of McAllister, Melancon, Betances, De La Rosa, Christian Garcia, Ian Kennedy etc. etc.”
excluding IPK..um no.
“We need to win now. It’s been almost a decade.”
Beautiful, sell the farm so we can go on reruns for the decade looking for solutions and having to draft over and over again. Relax we’re in first.
Not too worried about Mo here. As Pete suggests, as summer passes we’ll more than likely look at his numbers and he’ll be humiliating opponents again. It’s not guaranteed like it was in the past, now it’s just ‘very likely’. But until he gets in that groove it’s sometimes a little anxious when he goes out there.
He is getting older though, these ‘off-peak’ spells might get longer and the times he’s splintering bats and is nearly unhittable might get shorter.
Everyone, including Mo, is eventually mortal. He’s still damn close to the best in the game though, and he’s certainly the best we have right now. Hard to panic or complain, especially after 13 years of splintering bats.
Similarity, Boston could say they are right there with the Yankees with nothing from Ortiz, Lester/Beckett doing nothing for the 1st 2 months, Dice-K on the DL, and Penny in the rotation.
Beckett/Lester turning the corner. Dice-K is back. Penny will be replaced by Buchholz/Smoltz soon They’ll also undoubtedly add a hitter at the deadline.
Boston is in MUCH better position than we are.
“McAllister should not stop you from adding a dominant setup reliever to a WS caliber team.”
Wanna bet ?
“I really hope Cashman isin’t as naive as the fans. You are one BP piece away from being the best team in baseball. You do what you have to to fix that pen.”
B/c the win now fans are starting to make sense ?
Can people stop talking about Melancon?
Did you see him when he was up here?
Have you checked out his MiLB numbers since he went down?
Calm down on the kid.
Smoltz last seen couldn’t get over 90 mph and is a big mystery, please stop.
When is Bruney coming back?????
“Calm down on the kid.”
He has the ability, 11-14 IP shouldn’t make you think he’s a bust.
“When is Bruney coming back?????”
From the sounds of it in a week or 2.
Joba would make a great closer. i’m just sayin’…
Cashman didn’t spend $423 million this winter so he could sit home in October.
He is going to try his hardest to trade for a reliever. Anyone who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves. He isin’t going to watch our season die on the hands of Coke, Veras, and a gimpy-elbowed Bruney. Bruney has not shown he can be trusted, health-wise.
“He has the ability, 11-14 IP shouldn’t make you think he’s a bust”
Don’t think anyone is saying that. He was not good when he was up. Pitched scared. Tools are there, but he didn’t look ready when he was up.
Mr Veeck June 6th, 2009 at 11:07 pm
When is Bruney coming back?????
==================================
The Yankees aren’t ready to put a timetable on Brian Bruney’s return to big league action, but they feel he is moving closer.
The right-hander is scheduled to throw 30 pitches in a bullpen session on Sunday at Yankee Stadium, resting after 15 pitches and then completing his workload to reach the allotted count.
“It’s a step in the right direction,” Yankees manager Joe Girardi said. “We’ll make an evaluation where we think he is after [Sunday].”
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/articl.....p;c_id=mlb
Basically the answer is hopefully soon? Fingers crossed that all goes well tomorrow with his bullpen session.
Yeah Brandon, just like they wouldn’t take Wang out of the rotation, or trade Tabata, or sign Tex
Do you ever get tired of being wrong?
lol
I can’t believe you guys continue to converse with Brandon about prospects/trades. He has been clowned by SJ44 and Pat M on numerous occasions. Those are the guys you should listen to. They know what they are talking about.
I don’t even want wins saved by anyone else
Cellular, do me a favor stop stalking my comments. And make a point.
“Joba would make a great closer. i’m just sayin’…”
So would CC, so would AJ, want to stick them in the BP ?
Elbows are always tricky, especially for relievers.
They can come and go at any time. I don’t think it is a smart idea to rely on him.
BirdMan
June 6th, 2009 at 11:06 pm
Can people stop talking about Melancon?
Did you see him when he was up here?
Have you checked out his MiLB numbers since he went down?
Calm down on the kid.
=====
Why would people here who have actually seen him pitch consistently want to “calm down” on Melancon?
BOOGA!
bod,
If Cashman agreed with you, he would be up here instead of Veras and Tomko
We’ve had one of the worst bullpens in baseball all year with no 8th inning guy. Bruney and Marte have been injured. Yet he is in the minors.
I trust the GMs analysis over fans who tend to overhype everyone.
Nah, just Joba. He’s more effective in the pen.
If Melancon wants to come up here, he is going to have to pitch better down in Scranton. GreenBeret posted hus numbers, he has been pretty bad since he went down.
If he was pitching lights out during this time, the would be up by now.
“Nah, just Joba. He’s more effective in the pen.”
Sure he is, keep believeing that, meanwhile the staff even revealed it takes him awhile to rev up the motor on his FB, so you can’t expect Joba throwing mid 90’s in the 8th or 9th inning, they are warming him up earlier in pregames to get him up to mid 90’s by game time. So what else do you suggest ?
Hell no!
FWIW, the numbers GB posted on Melancon were not all that bad. They were not dominant as they were before he came up to the bigs, but they were not bad. He’s got a little work to do, but he’s pretty close.
Don’t worry fellas – on my way.
If the Yankees are serious about the post-season, and going further than the first round, then, yeah, somebody in that front office better take Rivera’s struggles seriously.
This team’s biggest weakness is the bullpen, and a poor bullpen means sitting home in October.
Frankly, I don’t see anyone helping the Yankees this year with some blockbuster trade. They’re going to have to deal with it from within.
Tom in N.J.
June 6th, 2009 at 9:22 pm
When I was in graduate school, I took class on Ernest Hemingway.
His life and his works. Class was in a bar and we left every week loaded and depressed.
Awesome.
BirdMan
June 6th, 2009 at 11:20 pm
bod,
If Cashman agreed with you, he would be up here instead of Veras and Tomko
We’ve had one of the worst bullpens in baseball all year with no 8th inning guy. Bruney and Marte have been injured. Yet he is in the minors.
I trust the GMs analysis over fans who tend to overhype everyone.
=====
I’ll trust my own eyes which tell me that Melancon is the genuine article, and that “overhype” just does not apply to him – not in demeanor, nor stuff, nor command, nor anything related to being a successful reliever.
“MO throwing 89-90-91 is NOT going to get it done consistently. Until he finds that missing velocity (which is no lock given his age), this is what he is. A guy who will be batting practice with 90 MPH cookies down the middle. He’ll still save more games than he’ll blow, but he is not going to be light out. He’ll be like any other decent closer.”
incase you havent been watching the games, mariano’s velocity has been basically 92-93 for the past 3 weeks…his problem was not velocity today, it was location
Joba was lights out as a reliever. This year he’s 0-1 with a 5+ era at home. He was better in the pen, and we sure could use him there now!
A Clean Well-lit Place, or whatever it’s called, is a great SS.
BBBBBBBBBullpen!
Pepitone – 100% agree.
Cash better have a plan to fix the pen. Bad enough our closer is showing considerable decline, but we don’t even have a bridge to him.
This pen is so bad
Internal solutions suck
Cashman will sign Jamie Walker – I guarantee it!
That ball to Upton was located well.
The Dillion ball was right over the plate.
Either way, it is something that we have to worry about. He has never been hit around like this before. 3 more hits than IP. As many HRs through 60 games than he did all of last year? He also has a .271 BAA.
Any way you slice it, it is a concern. He is 39 and coming off shoulder surgery.
Mr. Veeck,
That would totally be a Cashman move. Tampa gets Street or Bell, we get Jaime Walker lol
“Joba was lights out as a reliever. This year he’s 0-1 with a 5+ era at home. He was better in the pen, and we sure could use him there now!”
30 IP vs how many as a SP ? Yeh, and I like how you ignore the fact Joba would have to warm up from 6th inning in order to get that fastball reved up to mid 90’s.
C’mon now. This is the first year in the new stadium. This is King George’s baby. This is do or die for Brian Cashman. Chose wrong and you lose. There will be a blockbuster trade for a dominant reliever. Cashman either puts this team over the top or he risks his arse.
Would I be correct to assume this place turned to a dump when CC didn’t do well, and Mo blew the game?
Guess I was much better off being at the Belmont and getting free drinks.
“Cashman either puts this team over the top or he risks his arse.”
King George don’t run this show no more.
Nobody saw the Tabata/Nady trade coming at all last year.
Cashman will acquire someone, don’t worry. He knows how much the pen sucks, only accentuated by Rivera’s struggles.
Unfortunately, nothing usually happens until after the ASB. So we still have a ways to go
Stop getting so stressed out about Mo. What would you say if Yanks had Lidge? He has 6 blown saves.
Jaime Walker?
Price – 2.45 ERA
Shields – 3.40 ERA
Garza – 3.67 ERA
Niemenn – 3.77 ERA
So much for their pitching “regressing”. They’re going to be in this race all year.
jennifer,
Actually, most people here didn’t even mention CC.
As someone else pointed out— if that were AJ who gave up 5 runs, this board would have destroyed him. CC going 8 innings somehow absolved him of giving up 5 runs.
“So much for their pitching “regressing”
Conveniently left out Sonnanstine and the bullpen.
Carl
Oh Okay, but one thing to keep in mind for both CC and Mo. They’ve had a won of off days. CC hadn’t pitched in a week, and Mo I don’t remember the last game he got into.
Getting sleepy….
“and Mo I don’t remember the last game he got into”
Day before yesterday
Lace and Stiletto Hawaiian Luao? AWESOME!
Steve – They have a lower BP ERA than us.
Steve,
Once Kazmir comes back, Sonnanstine is gone anyway.
I didn’t even felt I had to include him because you could have seen his implosion from a mile away. He is a junkballer.
And all bullpens fluctuate. Not just Tampa’s. Look at ours from last year to this year.
I am waiting for Pete to announce a huge trade.
Well I can only dream.
Rays still scare the hell out of me
If we can win with no bullpen, why can’t they?
Their closer, JP Howell, has a lower ERA than MO.
“Steve – They have a lower BP ERA than us.”
Who doesn’t?
My point is their bullpen, which overachieved in a big way last year, has come back to earth. If today wasn’t enough evidence of that for you, come back tomorrow.
“Once Kazmir comes back, Sonnanstine is gone anyway.”
Well then you ignored Kazmir’s ERA.
2-9 against Tampa and Boston
Rivera has recorded the loss in 3 of those 9 losses. He has given up 9 runs this year, 7 of them to Tampa or Boston.
“If we can win with no bullpen, why can’t they?”
B/c they don’t comeback like us. And thier SP hasn’t really gone deep into games.
“Their closer, JP Howell, has a lower ERA than MO.”
I bet he hasn’t been in that role long.
To be fair, Kazmir is some what of an established commodity. He was just struggling early on.
Our BP is our prob. But Mo will fix himself.
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
“Rivera has recorded the loss in 3 of those 9 losses”
Mo is so unique. Probably the only guy in the history of baseball who has recorded 3 losses with an 0-2 record.
So only teams who have come back ability can win?
And Tampa is 8th in the league in IP by starters, we are 15th.
Brandon – Do you watch baseball at all?
Rays are 2nd in the AL in come from behind wins.
“And Tampa is 8th in the league in IP by starters, we are 15th.”
15th in a 14 team league?
Kevlar,
He didn’t record the loss in the 1st Boston game, but point taken.
The team as a whole has sucked against Tampa and Boston. The record speaks for itself.
Steve,
In baseball, not the AL.
Just get to the bull pen in late innings,and you win!
Keep underrating Tampa, Steve.
Steve B. – Do you contribute anything other than correcting harmless mistakes by others?
For all their + run differential and shiny SP ERA’s, the Rays are still 1 game over .500. You guys want to fret about them? Knock yourselves out. But I’d look at who’s the closest in our rear-view mirror. Well more accurately, at who’s right in front of us.
“Brandon – Do you watch baseball at all?
Rays are 2nd in the AL in come from behind wins.”
No not 24/7 I haven’t concerned myself w/ the Rays, that’s an interesting stat. We rank #1 in the league right ? so including AL/NL where does TB rank in comebacks ?
One bad week is all it takes for either of these teams to fall behind.
“Keep underrating Tampa, Steve.”
Not underrating them. They have some good things going for them. Merely pointing out the bullpen isn’t one of them. They play pretty decent defense, today aside, play an agressive style offense that suits their speed, and have two innings eating horses in Garza and Shields. They had that last year though and supplemented with a bullpen that pitched well beyond what their career norms would have suggested. That’s not happening this year.
Rays are going to be in this race all year, they are going to be a thorn in our side.
They may not overtake us at any point, but they are going to be withing striking distance this year. Enough to make us nervous.
That is why it is imperative they win some of these games head to head. That is the only way they can chip away, if they beat us head to head. Because we’re going to win our out of division games, so will they.
Tampa will only become an issue if we continue losing to them when we play them.
Well reading thier statline they are over achieving offensively from SS, underachieving from CF, PH, DH. Carl Crawford is the glue of that team’s offense so is Longoria (given).
This is interesting
2 outs RISP: .248/.377/.400
late/close : .268/.352/.437
7th – 9th inning: .250/.346/.412 <—not bad, not good
The Rays’ defense is more than decent; they’re one of the top three defensive teams in the AL (sixth in MLB). That’s pretty darn good.
Kevin S. they are going to have to be gazelles on D all season
http://www.baseball-reference......2009#pitco
I’m not sure what linking me to Tampa’s team pitching splits by pitch count is supposed to tell me about their defense…
C’mon everyone, calm down.
We took 2 of 3 there a few weeks ago and we’ll do the same this weekend.
One bad game and everyones freaking out.
Is the media attacking Mo now? Well, we knew it wouldn’t be long before they did. I don’t care if he’s defensive or not – the man is human and he’s frustrated. What a suprise that he would be bashed for that.
Am I worried about Mo? Yes, in the sense that if he’s not automatic or close to, then we have no advantage over any team. That, on top of our crappy bullpen, should concern Yankee fans. The question is whether Mo is on a steep decline or whether it’s just gradual. If he’s going to be bad often enough, the Yankees can’t win – they can’t win because there is no replacement for him.
Also, It really bothers me that Joe decided to embarrass Mo by ordering him to walk Longoria and pitch to Upton. I think Mo has earned the right to try to get ANY hitter out.
With Beckett and now Lester turning the corner, the Sox rotation is going to be brutal. The Yankees’ rotation just doesn’t stack up in any way, shape or form – what we planned during the off-season just has not come to pass.
Everyone’s boyfriend Bell is pitching right now…
Tony Paige, Feliciano ?
Shelley Duncan >>> Pedro Feliciano
To be fair, MO hardly ever shows emotion– he acts the same win or lose and today he was cleanly upset. So the writers were probably a bit taken back.
I don’t think any of them called him out for being defensive, they were just surprised.
Bell in the AL East = Disaster
*clearly
Boston’s rotation will only get better once they dump Penny
Hopefully we beat him up on Thursday before they bid him farewell.
“I’m not sure what linking me to Tampa’s team pitching splits by pitch count is supposed to tell me about their defense…”
I linked you to thier pitching splits. The pitching is getting hit hard.
“Boston’s rotation will only get better once they dump Penny”
B/c John Smoltz at 90 mph is better ?
Betsy – I don’t disagree.
We are certainly behind Boston. The bullpens are not even comparable. They have the best BP ERA in baseball, we have among the worst.
The question is if we can hold off the Rays, as they are starting to get hot now. I wasn’t concerned about them, but after watching them today and looking at their pitching stats, they are not THAT bad. Like us, they have no bullpen but are good in other areas.
They want to dump Penny to give Buchholz a spot, who is dominating AAA.
Smoltz is toast.
Shelley Duncan > Angel Berroa
in fact
Christina > Angel Berroa.
Why is he still here. A-Rod looks OK to me.
Brandon.. “I not the manager either”
June 7th, 2009 at 1:01 am
“Boston’s rotation will only get better once they dump Penny”
B/c John Smoltz at 90 mph is better ?’
Brandon, I have no idea how well Smoltz will do, but I am not sure how strong the argument is that he won’t be good because he only has a 90 mph fastball.
Mussina did very well last year and most of the time didn’t even reach 90 mph. Smoltz is like Mussina in that he is a veteran pitcher and may be able to adapt to different situations.
Antonio Bastardo pitches tomorrow for Philly
Here’s what worries me about Mo. In past years, he would have one or two bad weeks during the course of the season. This year, his poor performances have been spread over almost two months now. Not good. His velocity is down, he;s lost significant bite off his only pitch and he’s getting hit harder than I’ve ever seen him get hit. He’s going on 40, had shoulder surgery and is going on 40. (Did I mention that Mo is going on 40?)
We’ve been so, so fortunate to have Mo and have been living on bonus time with his continued excellence for a few years now. Last year was beyond remarkable for a 38 year-old closer. Mo may no longer be Mo, but he’s also not Armando Benitez. Let’s just hope, for his sake and ours, that Mo’s decline is long and gradual rather than rapid and steep.
“Antonio Bastardo pitches tomorrow for Philly”
That should be fun
ray, you haven’t been here all night, I know your reasonable but have you read what our fans have been spewing tonight ? you’d think we’re in last place.
“Mussina did very well last year and most of the time didn’t even reach 90 mph. Smoltz is like Mussina in that he is a veteran pitcher and may be able to adapt to different situations.”
Smoltz hasn’t pitched in this league, should be interesting to watch how he adjusts.
MO has made 23 appearances this year.
He has only had a 1-2-3 inning in 5 of them.
Through 23 appearances last year, MO had 14 1-2-3 innings.
Sevrex, I think it’s close between the Sox and Yankees…..but the pen is just the most obvious difference. If I thought the Yankees had an advantage in SP and offense, then I would think the Yankees are the better team. However, the SP has been solid, but nothing spectacular – absolutely nothing like what we thought it was going to be. The offense is very weird. They seem to take 90% of the game off, and then try to win it with a last burst. It’s a lousy way to play the game. Also, they’ll score early………and then nothing else for the rest of the game. It’s why I can’t be too impressed with it no matter how many runs they score. I’m impressed to no end by the resiliency and spirit of the team, but they have a remarkable talent for making life hard for themselves.
Ed H,
Bingo. In year’s past, the only way you would score off him is bloopers off broken bats.
Now, hitters are having their way with him. They are hitting rockets off him. He has already given up 5 HRs.
His location has also been way off. He has thrown so many pitches straight down the pipe. Maybe he could do that when he was throwing 93-94… not at 90-91.
“I’m impressed to no end by the resiliency and spirit of the team, but they have a remarkable talent for making life hard for themselves.”
Perfect line. Sums it up perfectly.
“Why is he still here. A-Rod looks OK to me.”
Christina, it’s to give our minor leaguers more hope that if they can continue to work hard, whether your 23 or 123, if you strive & have the drive you too can reach this level.
“ray, you haven’t been here all night, I know your reasonable but have you read what our fans have been spewing tonight ? you’d think we’re in last place.”
Brandon, I just got on the computer and haven’t had a chance to read all the comments yet.
I think there is a certain percentage of both Yankee and Sox fans that after one or two losses are amazingly ready to say the season is over.
I personally have no doubt that the Yankees will be either be in first place or at least contending for first place most of the season.
Mariano wasn’t going to throw in the mid 90s forever. This is what happens when pitchers get old… they lose velocity and movement.
His cutter right now is basically a batting practice fastball. No life, 90 MPH. He throws it down the middle like he did to Dillon, it gets hit. He locates it well to Upton, it gets hit.
At 90-91 with no movement, this is basically what it is. Can’t stop the aging process. The days of him throwing mid 90s are over, and thus, so are his days of complete dominance. He’ll still be good, but not immortal.
CC giving up the lead twice took the air out of he balloon. He cannot do that to this awful lineup Tampa threw out there today.
This is a gritty, fiery team that will always come back. Problem is, they only seem to win if they come back in their last at bat. Most other teams, it is a heartbreaking loss (Rays the 2 games last month, Philly game, Cleveland, today etc.).
The offense is just missing something. It seems to go through the motions very often. They come back, but they are not consistent game in and game out.
hes been throwing it 92-93..maybe not every single pitch but mostly
The most disturbing this is the errors and lack of fundamentals and mental mistakes these last few games.
They broke the error streak and things have now unraveled. Of course, this team is not good defensively at the individual positions to begin with, so I guess it is to be expected. But the other fundamentals should not have disappeared as well.
This team needs more players like Brett Gardner who are gutsy, gritty, play with fire etc.
Bell would do just fine in the AL East as a set up guy, the guy has filthy stuff and he is a horse out of the pen. He is a guy who could easily give you 2 shutout innings in a big game.
He cracked in NY, Al, everytime he returns to NYC he doesn’t pitch that well, ya know ?
I just read the articles that were linked (I think in the previous thread) about Mo voicing his displeasure with Joe today. I was wrong in jumping to conclusions – they were good articles. Mo is steamed and I think rightly so, BUT……in order to not let this fester, he needs to talk to Joe about this. They need to clear the air – it shouldn’t be too hard given their long-term relationship.
Brandon- I would take what he did with the Mets and throw it out. Shea was a pitchers park just like Petco. He is also not prone to giving up homers or walks which in this pen would be a site for sore eyes. I just think he would be a good addition if the price were fair.
Now think about it Al from Bk, if your SD’s Kevin Towers, knowing that teams are going to offer you stuff, are you selling Bell short value ? I know his contract ends after this season but they aren’t just going to give him away.
And if your the Yankees your giving up high talent for a short reliever you could sign next season as a FA, how did that work out w/ Marte ?
Brandon- I doubt many teams will be offering blue chips for a 32 year old reliever with 2 months left on his contract. I think if Cash plays his cards right he could get Bell for a mid-tier prospect or 2 and none of the big guys, Montero, Romine, Jackson et al.
Brandon- You’re right looking back at the Nady/Marte trade it seems silly but at the time it looked brilliant. A dominant set-up lefty, and a good hitting corner OF was quite a haul. Now with how Tabata has looked it seems bad but hindsight is 20/20. I know you think highly of him but I don’t think Tabata will ever be Manny Ramirez or Carlos Lee out there maybe a decent starter but not someone we will be pained over trading.
“I think if Cash plays his cards right he could get Bell for a mid-tier prospect or 2 and none of the big guys, Montero, Romine, Jackson et al.”
Hence why now isn’t the time to even think about it, SD ain’t exactly in a rush to deal him. And right now put yourself in Tower’s shoes, he’s gonna want a top talent, especially after seeing how short the market is w/ effective relievers. Even w/ all that Bell isn’t a slam dunk, he’s never pitched in the AL in his life.
Brandon- You’re right a trade is not going to happen soon but we are going to have to continue out-slugging teams to keep the pen from deciding the game and we all know how that has worked in the past.
Okay, Betsy got me curious about this Rivera “controversy”, so I checked out the mlb.com recap. I read his quotes and I read Sabathia’s quotes. I didn’t watch the whole game and I didn’t read anything from the “papers”.
They seem innocuous enough. Sabathia thought he could go longer, so what? They all think that. 8 innings, thank you very much, sir.
Rivera expressed that he could’ve got Longoria out. Well, maybe. But what did Rivera do in that inning up to that point to give Joe that impression?
Sounds like pure frustration to me. They can both point the finger at Joe, but the bottom line is neither got the job done.
And they’re both right, the manager has the last say.
If CC had pitched a gem, or if mo hadn’t given up 3 hits, then we’d be arguing about something stupid like pies. Instead, we’ve got 2 frustrated pitchers.
This is what happens when you let a Joe Dillon go 4-4.
Gotta get the role players out, or you’ll pay the price.
CC wasn’t brilliant but he left with the team in a position to win.
Worried about Mo? Not really. He’s always been bad in tie games.
That said, how can you fault Girardi for going to his closer (aka best, most dependable relief pitcher) in a tied game in the 9th inning? Mo does his job, you have a walkoff win. It’s baseball.
Some interesting stats on Mo:
Save Situation: .205 BA/.253 OBP/.272 SLG/.525 OPS
Tied Game: .244 BA/.311 OBP/.343 SLG/.654 OPS
He’s simply worse in a tied game, and his career splits prove that.
vb,
Exactly. I could CC being upset if Veras relieved him.
I don’t think CC is upset.
Rivera, boy, we’ve known for a while that tie games are his achilles. What I think he’s really mad at Joe for is having Phil Coke “clean up” his mess. But really, did Joe have any other choice? mo had nothing.
“vb,
Exactly. I could CC being upset if Veras relieved him.
I don’t think CC is upset.
Rivera, boy, we’ve known for a while that tie games are his achilles. What I think he’s really mad at Joe for is having Phil Coke “clean up” his mess. But really, did Joe have any other choice? mo had nothing.”
I can’t say for sure that pulling Mo out was the right move at that point in time, for all we know, he could have cleaned up his own mess. He has done so in the past.
However, it was the manager’s call. Another important stat:
Crawford was .353/.353/.588/.941 off Mo prior to that at-bat. I’m willing to bet Joe G. had those stats handy.
Dear Mo,
Joe’s top priority is winning the game. Sorry you’re upset about Joe thinking it’s beneficial for the Yankees if you face a guy that you’ve struck out 6 out of the 7 times you’ve faced him.
Longoria is NOT the guy, Mo. The last time you faced him, he launched one off of you. A month ago today, in fact. Funny enough, it was in the 9th where you blew the tie.
We know this. We get it. But yesterday wasn’t the time nor the place to settle such a petty vendetta.
Mo, you didn’t have it the other day. It happens.
You’re understandably sore about how poorly you pitched.
Try not to get too upset at your manager because of your shortcomings.
Let’s not make a habit of this.
http://www.baseball-reference......5070.shtml
I think Mo’s been taking pitching lessons from Jose Veras. One more reason to ship Veras out.
//Cashman should get Huston Street. Lets trade Veras for him!//
This is just so funny. You guys are always looking to ad star players to your roster. Haven’t you figured it out yet after 9 years? All the star players stacked on this team, does not ever seem to make a difference. You won your 4 WS titles in the 90’s with ballplayers, not superstars. The other 24, none of you were out of diapers. They were your daddy and your granddaddy’s teams, so go get the tapes to relive the glory years, because your glory days are over.
I’m from Boston, but I don’t go around bragging about the 17 championships the Celtics won, because I wasn’t there. I can just tell you about ‘81, ‘84, 86 and ‘08. The ones I was fortunate to be a part of.
Our star lefty almost pitched another no-hitter. What did your star lefty do last night?…..lost again in a key situation to a team at only half-strength!
See you at Fenway for another Red Sox sweep on Tuesday!
8-0 season series total against the Yankees is going to look sweet!
….and Tampa’s going to sweep you too!
the red sox rotation was better last year but we hung in with terrible starting pitching.
once bruney comes back & we trade for an arm if needed we will be fine.
bullpens change with one move like that.
bruney in the 8th will allow us to slot robertson,ace & the others to the 6th & 7th innings.
I would be worried about Mo if he hadn’t had surgery in the offseason. I think many of us may have underrated the effect that the surgery would have, particularly after Rivera had a better ST and start of April than usual. His struggles, results wise, didn’t start until late April.
Rivera’s inconsistency of velocity, movement, and location is indicative of him not having completely recovered yet from the surgery. He should get stronger as the year goes on. Sporadic work has not helped either. That said, he is 39 and a full recovery is not a foregone conclusion, and there will be some decline on a yearly basis as well.
Mo has had several stretches of not being used. Depending on the amount of pitches he throws, he needs to be used at least 3 times each week to stay sharp.
*CC is not living up to his reputation* .
As a Yankees fan *READING PAST STATS* about how a player was before becoming a Yankee,doesn’t do a thing but detract from what the player is doing currently.
*CC* should be embarrassed as the ACE to have Yesterday’s result.
Before the season opener,Pete gave the *stats* of CC vs Orioles,all positive in CC’s favor,yet the Yankees lost.
Friday Pete gave the *stats* of CC vs Tampa,again favorable.
I got this pit in my stomach and wouldn’t allow myself to
*overly rely on the stats* ,and you saw what happened.
*I as well as any true Yankees fan want them in post* *season* .
*The Yankees have the talent,but they aren’t performing up* *to their stats* .
Seeing Mo lit up like that yesterday for me,was like *his*
*blown save in 2004* . It even shook Mr low key too!!
Of course Mo is upset. He gave up 4 runs, and the team could not come back with enough in the bottom of the ninth to overcome that.
As far as IBB Longoria – how do you argue that? Longoria had a HR off him last time (recent hammie problems notwithstanding) and he had struck out Upton like 6 times. How do you argue that? And so, Joe put Mo in the best position to get the 3rd out. Which Mo did not do. So, I would think, when all is said and done, Mo is probably much more upset with himself than the manager. I don’t think Joe “embarrassed” Mariano. And he took him out so he wouldn’t lose him for another game, pitch-count wise.
Sabathia probably could have pitched the 9th. And of course, he’d prefer that. They all prefer to stay in the game; they all prefer to play than not play, bumps & bruises be darned (and in John Maine’s case, weakness). Again, when all is said and done, I’d bet CC is more upset with himself, having given up 5 runs and the lead twice, than he is with the manager deciding to go with Mariano in the 9th. If he went with Veras, I’d have some questions.
“CC wasn’t brilliant but he left with the team in a position to win.”
CC stunk, plain and simple. He failed to hold two leads and got pounded by a scrub hitter. I’ve said before the Yanks have zero starters who can dominate a game and hold a lead when needed. Lester’s performance last night is something the Yankee starters can only dream of doing.
The fact of the matter is that CC is not an ACE with the Yanks. He can’t match up head-to-head with any elite pitcher. I’m from Milwaukee and watched CC dominate game after game last year and bear down with men on base. He’s not the same guy now. The pressure of NY has gotten to him and he’s prone to meltdowns on a daily basis, which he usually reserved for postseason starts. As good as he was for the Brewers, he simply could not handle the pressure of starting a game in the playoffs.
Yes, it’s unusual to see Mo be less than dominant and even less common to hear him question his manager. But, no, it’s not time to jump off the ledge.
I do think it was telling, however, that Girardi was trying to play percentages. I agree in general that you should not give a player of Longoria’s skills a chance to beat you, even if he was coming back from a leg injury. But Mo never needed help from the percentages before. It does suggest clearly that Joe thinks Mo is more human this year than before as well as the fact that regardless of who is out on the mound, Girardi will consult the numbers.
Joe, however, makes the call from the dugout to walk Longoria without a mound visit to sell it to Mo. Was Joe’s lack of tact (respect?) the bigger factor in Mo’s unraveling? I’m 100% sure Girardi meant no disrespect to Mo, but is he sure Mo knew that?
IMO, walking Longoria is a decision all managers would consider in that situation. But you’d have to also consider that it was a rusty Longoria waiting to swing and that when you walk a hitter to get at the next guy, usually that amps up the next hitter (Oh, so you think you can beat ME?). Add that “intangible” to the fact that walking Longoria obviously unsettled the usually unflappable Mo and maybe this wasn’t really a 39 year old shoulder issue. Maybe Mo still thinks of Girardi as the catcher sometimes and not the manager.
Girardi and Mo need to talk. Mo was embarrassed on the mound by Joe and Joe likely was embarrassed by Mo after the game. Bad, bad communicating between former teammates who are now Manager and Closer. Fix it and move on.
Mariano gave up one run in his previous ten appearances before yesterday. He is, for whatever reasons, not the same pitcher in tie games. Could be the intensity is just a tick off…who knows. But this has been an issue for the past few seasons. At this stage of his career, it would be nice if the Yankees had the luxury of saying Mariano only closes, but our bullpen unfortunately isn’t deep enough for that.
I’ve been ‘worried’ for the past 5-6 years. Mo, as great as he is/was, has always been in denial. We were told for the past couple of years that he was “working’ on a change-up–design to sit -up those batters that were keying on his former ‘unhitable’ cutter.
Thus far, no change-up, and the batters are keying on his FORMER ‘unhitable’ cutter!
I PERSONALLY BELIEVE AS LONG AS ALEX IS ON THIS TEAM,THEY WILL NEVER WIN A WS….He’s bad news.
can’t end a stream on a note like that last one
MO is god and will have great numbers at year end – he’ll blow a few more games before the years out but is still a top closer in the league and I still believe the game is over going into the 9th WITH a lead.
i’ve been hearing this argument for the past five years – any time MO has a bad outing or MO forbid two, everyone says hes done… and then he goes on and pitches lights out for the rest of the year
“In MO we trust.”