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Back to the bullpen for Wang?

Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Jun 10, 2009 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

When asked if Chien-Ming Wang would make his next start, Joe Girardi said it was something he, Brian Cashman and Dave Eiland would have to talk about.

That usually means, “Are you crazy? Of course not.”

Even Wang said he would understand if the Yankees shipped him back to the bullpen. Monday’s day off does give them some options. But the Yankees arent in a position to keep hoping the guy pitches well. This is a team built to win.

Eiland said just now that Wang’s arm slot, while fine in the bullpen, is “all over the place” in games. “He has to take what he does in the bullpen onto the field,” Eiland said. “I know I’ve said that before.”

Jorge Posada said with conviction that Wang deserves another start because he has earned that right. Those 19-win seasons, Posada said, give Wang credibility.

“But we need to see it soon,” Posada said. “It’s tough to watch him go through this.”

 
 

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251 Responses to “Back to the bullpen for Wang?”

  1. Brandon ----> Brandon 3 Cena 0 June 10th, 2009 at 11:29 pm

    pfffffftt….

  2. JoeT 28 in 10!! OPPC Click Here for my attempt at optimism June 10th, 2009 at 11:29 pm

    He definitely deserves another start …. we need Wang to be Wang

  3. Francis June 10th, 2009 at 11:30 pm

    Hughes HAS to get that start.

    You cannot throw Wang out there, his mechanics are a mess.

  4. Al from BK June 10th, 2009 at 11:30 pm

    I think we need Wang in the rotation but the way he has been pitching, can we really afford to see starts like tonight every time out?

  5. Matt June 10th, 2009 at 11:32 pm

    The Nationals, with their patient offense will destroy him.

    Marlins might be a good team for him though. They are a HR or nothing offense.

  6. Carl June 10th, 2009 at 11:32 pm

    I agree with Posada.

  7. RalphieD (OPPC all day) June 10th, 2009 at 11:32 pm

    i say throw wang again at home against washington…if he struggles against them…welll who knws…and yes i knw they have a better offense this year

  8. Matt June 10th, 2009 at 11:32 pm

    Wang’s stuff tonight was unbelievable. If he was pitching anywhere but Fenway Park against the Red Sox, there is no doubt in my mind that his start tonight looks more like 5 IP 2 ER than 2.2/4

  9. Mehdi also in SF June 10th, 2009 at 11:32 pm

    I just want to thank the Yankees for making a game of it tonight. I hate watching them go down meekly. We got the big guy on the mound tomorrow. Let’s get out of town in a tie for first and then go from there. Good night and Good luck.

  10. Erica - newly OPPC June 10th, 2009 at 11:32 pm

    I honestly have no idea at all what the answer is. I think the Yankees created a giant mess for themselves by making rash decisions. I truly believe the guy can still pitch, but do I really want to see him get lit up again while they are testing the waters??? And I also have a really strong urge to hug the guy.

  11. RalphieD (OPPC all day) June 10th, 2009 at 11:33 pm

    “The Nationals, with their patient offense will destroy him”

    never thought id see that written

  12. Drills June 10th, 2009 at 11:33 pm

    This game was conceded from the start. You cannot do that.

    He is not ready and a couple of good relief outings should not have changed that.

    His stuff is back, but his mechanics and control are all over the place.

  13. EvoLuTioN June 10th, 2009 at 11:33 pm

    jeter and cano going 0-5 leaving 10 men on base was just killer

  14. EvoLuTioN June 10th, 2009 at 11:34 pm

    9 men on base* woops lol

  15. trisha - OPPC lifetime member June 10th, 2009 at 11:34 pm

    (from previous thread)

    “We can beat everyone else except our biggest rival, thus we are 2nd best.”

    So that’s how it works! I get confused because we beat teams that beat them. So that would make those teams better than us? Hmmm.

    Wow, the entire time we were in first place and the Red Sox were losing games to teams that we beat, instead of celebrating I guess some posters were in mourning the whole time since, you know, we hadn’t beaten the Sox.

    Obviously you want to beat the Sox. But it isn’t like they trammeled the Yanks every win is it. Do you remember back to one of the first series when we were all saying we could have and should have taken 3 of the 4 games? That’s when we were without Arod, without Nady, with an ailing Bruney, etc., and we still were right on their heels.

    I guess I understand the respect your take on it but I just don’t agree with it. I do agree with Jason Bay though that what counts is who ends up in first and not who wins by how many games. Funny that we beat up on the Rays last year and they ended up in the World Series. So that made us the better team?

  16. you gotta have faith (right porch giveth and the right porch taketh away) June 10th, 2009 at 11:35 pm

    Harper M,

    if we won 2 of 3 we would still be 2-7 against them this year. that doesnt make us the better team, one series wasnt going to change that even if we swept them.

    having a clear answer on which team is better doesnt come till september or hopefully october. being 0-7 against them yet only being 1 game back in the standings i think speaks volumes for this team. but by saying that i also believe tomorrow is the day to win.

    get it done yanks.

  17. Dr. Cox June 10th, 2009 at 11:35 pm

    We cannot afford to give him another start. Sorry but thats the way it is in sports. “what have you done for me lately, Mr. Wang?”

    the answer is nothing.

  18. Yankee Trader June 10th, 2009 at 11:35 pm

    Goodnight all. Tomorrow is another day. Thought you all might like this short read on Selena Robert’s book sales!

    http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/s.....ng-nothing

  19. Pel June 10th, 2009 at 11:35 pm

    More talk of Wang’s arm slot *AND* the Yanks face Livan Hernandez this week?

    A certain someone is definitely gonna be abuzz.

  20. AZTravos June 10th, 2009 at 11:36 pm

    Zimmerman – .323 avg/.395 OBP
    Dunn – .261 avg/.398 OBP
    Johnson – .320 avg/.424 OBP

    Wang? :?

  21. tampayank June 10th, 2009 at 11:36 pm

    Posada looked pissed on the yes postgame but he did defend wang some but it looked like he was just saying the pc things

  22. Erica - newly OPPC June 10th, 2009 at 11:36 pm

    Okay everyone- I am going to bed. I probably won’t be posting until the end of the weekend due to lots of Fleetwood Mac and Atlantic City so have a great weekend and lets go Yankees!

    And in honor of all the Fleetwood Mac, I will leave you with this quote-
    “Don’t stop thinking about tomorrow!!!”

  23. Matt June 10th, 2009 at 11:36 pm

    This is not good… Wang has lost it. Put him in the bullpen and then in the offseason he can work on everything and maybe be back to his 19 win self next year…

  24. AD June 10th, 2009 at 11:36 pm

    Give the man the start against the Nationals. If you’re gonna throw him into the fire against the Red Sox, at least give him a chance to pitch against a garbage team like Washington.

  25. Dr. Cox June 10th, 2009 at 11:36 pm

    “I guess I understand the respect your take on it but I just don’t agree with it. I do agree with Jason Bay though that what counts is who ends up in first and not who wins by how many games. Funny that we beat up on the Rays last year and they ended up in the World Series. So that made us the better team?”

    Now thats a good point.

  26. trisha - OPPC lifetime member June 10th, 2009 at 11:37 pm

    Al from BK, you said you were turning your Yankee card in if they lost tonight. I guess that means you turn into a pumpkin in about 25 minutes.

    Ha ha ha.

    Anyway it will probably do you some good to take time away. You were complaining up a storm the entire time the Yankees were in first place. It seems you have a hard time with anything less than perfection. May I suggest artificial flowers? They’re sure not to disappoint!

  27. Bryan June 10th, 2009 at 11:37 pm

    “Wang’s stuff tonight was unbelievable. If he was pitching anywhere but Fenway Park against the Red Sox, there is no doubt in my mind that his start tonight looks more like 5 IP 2 ER than 2.2/4″

    I mean wow just wow

    Those doubles to the gaps I guess wouldn’t be hit anywhere else

    How about all those walks and bad counts he consistently got in to

    The blinders on this blog are amazing

  28. m June 10th, 2009 at 11:38 pm

    People who think AJ is killing this team instead of Wang aren’t looking at the whole picture. They’re looking at 2 games AJ pitched against the Red Sox.

  29. randy l. June 10th, 2009 at 11:38 pm

    cb-

    the yankee have a problem being able to leave wang in the game long enough to build up his pitch count.

    i agree the minors is the best place to do that, but there’s a way they could build up his pitch count without having the problem of commanding his sinker which was his undoing tonight.

    you originally and correctly stated his sinker would come back when his health and strength came back. he doesn’t have to throw a sinker to get his strength back. he could do it with four seam fastballs.

    why not have him throw mostly four seam fastballs with some sinkers, sliders, and changes mixed in. he’s throwing 95mph with the four seam fastball. a pitcher who throws strikes at 95 with a four seam fastball should be able to last 4-5 innings.

    once he has the strength from throwing the four seam fastball, then move over to the sinker. this was actually how he learned the sinker in the first place. he threw a 96-97 four seam fastball and was converted in week to the sinker.

    why not do that again? like tonight, he would have surprised the red sox for one thing and he was throwing strikes with the four seam fastball. it would be a transitional technique that would for now keep him in the game longer with less runs .

    i realize he has a very straight four seam fastball but he should be able to get up to 96 with it by next game. that should get some outs. if i was catching him i would call the four seam fastball until he was ahead in the count.

    maybe wang needs to be able to throw a 96-97 mph four seam fastball before he can command the 93-94 sinker.

    if thats true, it could be a conditioning check point for him. in the future get the fastball to 96-97 and then work on the sinker.

    i would focus on the four seam fastball now as a conditioning tactic. i think it’s teh quickest way to get him the innings he needs without killing the yankees in the process.

  30. Erica - newly OPPC June 10th, 2009 at 11:38 pm

    Dr. Cox
    June 10th, 2009 at 11:36 pm
    “I guess I understand the respect your take on it but I just don’t agree with it. I do agree with Jason Bay though that what counts is who ends up in first and not who wins by how many games. Funny that we beat up on the Rays last year and they ended up in the World Series. So that made us the better team?”

    Now thats a good point.
    ****
    Just to build on that- Toronto usually owns us. How many world series rings do they have??????

    I love rational arguments!

  31. trisha - OPPC lifetime member June 10th, 2009 at 11:39 pm

    Erica, I sure will miss having you here! I have a dinner appointment tomorrow night but hope to be home in time to catch at least some of the game. We’ll stay positive for you. Have a great time! I hope you win as big as the Yankees do.

    :)

  32. Grace June 10th, 2009 at 11:39 pm

    Peter:

    Is AJ’s appreal result out yet?
    Because no matter the games he’s suspend,
    Yankees still need a starter down the road….

  33. you gotta have faith (right porch giveth and the right porch taketh away) June 10th, 2009 at 11:40 pm

    i dont think the game was lost from the start.

    being down 3 runs doesnt worry me bc i know this team can come back. i really dont think wang was horrible, swish should have made that catch, there was a chopper over wangs head, and also that ball that bay hit in the first inning wasnt even hit hard. but their is no excuse for all the walks wang gave up.

    the offense had their chances today but just didnt get it done, besides last night the sox arent beating the crap out of us, we just keep on finding ways to lose.

    and tomorrow that needs to end.

  34. trisha - OPPC lifetime member June 10th, 2009 at 11:42 pm

    Okay all. Nothing much more to add than GO YANKEES!!!

    Tomorrow starts our streak and gets us back into first place, where we belong.

    Night all!

  35. belial June 10th, 2009 at 11:42 pm

    Well, I’m sure glad these games didn’t mean anything!

    And I’m doubly glad that the Yanks don’t have any tough west coast road trips coming up like Boston does. We all know how dominating NY is out west!

  36. Pat M. June 10th, 2009 at 11:43 pm

    Give The Wang-Man another start, with Hughes backing him up…..It’s not like the club is out by 5 games or so…..His success is tied into the club’s success come the stretch run……

  37. Ed - Wang is sorta back June 10th, 2009 at 11:43 pm

    that Youkilis 2 run homer definitely hurts the Yanks tonight.

  38. you gotta have faith (right porch giveth and the right porch taketh away) June 10th, 2009 at 11:44 pm

    “Funny that we beat up on the Rays last year and they ended up in the World Series. So that made us the better team?”

    “Just to build on that- Toronto usually owns us. How many world series rings do they have??????”

    Finally someone who makes sense! :)

  39. Rebecca-Optimist Prime June 10th, 2009 at 11:44 pm

    My user-friendly guide to the issue surrounding what the yankees will do with Wang

    http://www.puristbleedspinstri.....-wang.html

  40. randy l. June 10th, 2009 at 11:44 pm

    “More talk of Wang’s arm slot AND the Yanks face Livan Hernandez this week?
    A certain someone is definitely gonna be abuzz.”

    very funny pel :)

    i predict i will be as right about wang as i was about livan .

    as i said in the above post. wang has the sinker back but has trouble commanding it, so throw the our seam fastball. he only thing different is the grip.
    he’ll be building the strength he needs.
    once he has the strength, the sinker will be easier to command.

  41. Nick in SF June 10th, 2009 at 11:44 pm

    “You don’t get the pessimism about Wang? Really? I spoke of resolute optimism before but perhaps I should have said blind optimism.

    Look, I’ve always liked Wang, but right now he’s not the pitcher he was. You don’t know that it’s Wang’s strength that is the issue. It could be anything.”

    Sorry, Wave Your Hat, but we’re going to have to part company on this one. Of course Wang doesn’t look like the pitcher he was – how could he?

    I do not suggest that his lack of strength is the issue, I suggest it’s that he missed six months due to a freak injury and had his re-hab botched by the Yankees (which they have since admitted).

    So if anyone expected him to roll over and look like the Wang of old, that would be pretty silly. I guess Wang’s problem could be “anything” if you ignore what has already happened.

    He was throwing 89-91 in April with his mechanics all messed up and he got killed. Now he’s back at 93-95 with action on his sinker and is much closer to the proper arm slot. You don’t have to find anything to be optimistic about that, but it’s not blind optimism for me to do so.

    And who said anything about ignoring Phil Hughes? I said last night I want Hughes to make AJ’s next start.

  42. Al from BK June 10th, 2009 at 11:45 pm

    “Anyway it will probably do you some good to take time away. You were complaining up a storm the entire time the Yankees were in first place. It seems you have a hard time with anything less than perfection. May I suggest artificial flowers? They’re sure not to disappoint!”

    I can’t tell whats worst being a dreamer on a cloud type fan like yourself never getting mad at the team or being a pessimist critic like myself. Sure I talk harsh, but I love this team and it hurts me to see them getting handled by the team I hate the most and have hated my entire life. Perhaps its just venting but sometimes I wonder why we can’t win the big one, something has been missing lately and I can’t put my finger on it.

  43. teddy June 10th, 2009 at 11:45 pm

    if they put wang back in the pen, it shows this orgization is clueless. he was hurt in the first 3 starts. he made 2 starts since and they want to pulled him, what is amatuer hour. how will wang help the pen, he won’t. 2 starts is a small sample. the stuff there he turn it around. if you want the old wang back, be patience.

  44. CB June 10th, 2009 at 11:45 pm

    “why not have him throw mostly four seam fastballs with some sinkers, sliders, and changes mixed in. he’s throwing 95mph with the four seam fastball.”

    That’s an idea but I think he’ll get rocked quite honestly. Wang’s secondary pitches just aren’t good enough to pitch off of a very straight four seam fastball.

    He’s never pitched in the major leagues off that style and arsenal.

    Also, I’d worry that changing his pitch distribution may screw up his mechanics even more for the two seamer.

    I don’t think that’ll help. I think it’ll make him lose focus on what he needs to work on.

    They can try him against Washington because washington is so bad.

    But my sense is that he needs to go to the minors. I think that’s the only way to make this work.

  45. Mark June 10th, 2009 at 11:46 pm

    The 2008 team is back.

    No pitching, can’t get a clutch hit to save their lives, terrible defense.

  46. Matt June 10th, 2009 at 11:47 pm

    I know this is off topic.. but i forgot. when do they call the games because of rain? Im going to fridays game and was looking at the forecast. The whole day is ” chance of t-storm”….

    also, they need to destroy Penny tomorrow. Yes we would lose 2 out of 3, but it will at least makes us tied for first and we wont be winless against the sox.

  47. Dr. Cox June 10th, 2009 at 11:47 pm

    “I can’t tell whats worst being a dreamer on a cloud type fan like yourself never getting mad at the team or being a pessimist critic like myself”

    Al, you gotta find middle ground between the two like I do. That way, you always win.

  48. Erica - newly OPPC June 10th, 2009 at 11:48 pm

    Thanks Trisha!!! I appreciate it. I am hoping for jackpot!!!

    Have a great weekend and keep holding your own! I think you do a great job :-)

  49. Brandon ----> Brandon 3 Cena 0 June 10th, 2009 at 11:49 pm

    “never thought id see that written”

    It’s not just a no, it should be a hell no, that Nats offense will kill him, Johnson, Dunn, Zimmerman ? even Gonzo, we know how patient he is.. it’s hell no w/ a thought of possibly dealing him somewhere this season/offseason or next season for me.

  50. randy l. June 10th, 2009 at 11:49 pm

    pat m-

    the thing this blog needs to remember is that wang and hughes are likely both going to be in the rotation together next year. they are not competing against each other. they are teammates.

    forget results, wang made a break though in his velocity and in the action on his sinker.
    he’s making progress. they just need to get him to stay in the games longer by having him throw more four seam fastballs.

  51. Bob(The Original) June 10th, 2009 at 11:50 pm

    There is no way you can justify giving Wang any more starts if it means they are at the expense of Hughes getting them.

    The “he won 19 games twice” reasoning has no merit anymore. For whatever reasons he clearly is not that guy at this time.

    At some point you just have to appreciate what he did in the past and move on. That time is now.

    They can’t keep jerking Hughes around. Getting Hughes regular starts will not only benefit the team right now, but in the long run as well. He needs to learn and develop and can help the Yanks win much more than Wang can right now.

  52. you gotta have faith (right porch giveth and the right porch taketh away) June 10th, 2009 at 11:50 pm

    Mark,

    if this was the 2008 team they dont even get within 1 run like they did tonight.

  53. Betsy June 10th, 2009 at 11:50 pm

    CB, I totally agree…..no question about it. I still can’t believe AJ’s performance and I like the guy. This is why I say we have serious issues with the rotation…..AJ is better than he showed last night and he’s pitched great against the Sox before. Is he just collapsing under the weight of the Sox/Yankees rivalry because? I guess mechanically he’s way out of whack. He may not be a great pitcher, but he’s not a bad one – he’s been ok at times this year, but he’s capable of better. I hope the Yankees can get him straightened out…..that is, if he’s willing to figure out what’s wrong (which he seemed oddly unwilling to do yesterday). He’s not good enough to predict that he’s going to go on a major roll – I think he’s having a crisis of confidence now and is acting that way to cover up his worries.

    AJ had to do better…….Wang had to do better. The thing is, I don’t want Phil to be yanked around. First he’s in the rotation, now the pen, later maybe the rotation again if Wang is DL’d (or whatever)..,then the pen again. This kid is showing why he’s going to be a special pitcher…….make a plan and stick with it.

  54. South Coast June 10th, 2009 at 11:51 pm

    They peaked during the hot streak and are now back to their old ways. A-Rod gave them a temporary boost, but this is the real team. They can get away with their sloppy play and poor execution against lesser teams, but will be absolutely exposed against the good teams.

    No hits with RISP, bad defense, poor execution. 2008 traits rearing their ugly head.

  55. Zach in Port Jeff June 10th, 2009 at 11:51 pm

    I wish God never invented the lisfranc.

  56. Rachel June 10th, 2009 at 11:51 pm

    I really hope Girardi and company make the right move and do not let Wang make his next start. Winning has to be the #1 priority right now. Girardi has to do what is right for the 24 other guys on the team, and not just 1. The guys on the team probably feel deflated before the game even starts because they know it is Wang’s day to pitch. What he did in the past is nice and all but now he is giving them no chance to win and his 3 innings aren’t helping the bullpen at all. After 50 pitches he has nothing. The team was doing so good without him and now I feel like he is a negative to the team. Who is the better option to start on Tuesday Wang at 80% or Hughes at 100%?

  57. Erica - newly OPPC June 10th, 2009 at 11:52 pm

    Brandon-

    I wish you the best in your epic battle against Cena tomorrow.

  58. Ron June 10th, 2009 at 11:52 pm

    Give Wang one more start, and if he fails, he must go to the Pen for awhile.

    2 bonehead plays by Swisher tonight spelled doom. Swish and AJ should be thinking about the game rather than cream pies, and what kind of music should be on in the clubhouse.

    7 losses in a row to the Bosox is unacceptable.

    As for the Manager, why is Cano hitting fifth in the order since he’s back to his old habits, and he’s been regressing since April ? I do not want him up with the game on the line. Why is Girardi bunting Cabrera in the 8th ? Playing for a tie on the road ? He should take that bunt play and stick it. How about letting Gardner try to steal second with no one out, or trying a hit and run ? Kottaras really showed his rifle arm in the 9th when Pena stole second.

    A bad, bad, loss. I know its a long, long season, but Thursday is a MUST WIN. And its getting pretty evident Girardi can’t carry Torre’s jock as a skipper.

  59. 7*7 June 10th, 2009 at 11:52 pm

    The 2008 team went 9-9 against the Sux

    That team wasn’t intimidated by them.

  60. Nick in SF June 10th, 2009 at 11:53 pm

    “The thing is, I don’t want Phil to be yanked around. First he’s in the rotation, now the pen, later maybe the rotation again if Wang is DL’d (or whatever)..,then the pen again. This kid is showing why he’s going to be a special pitcher…….make a plan and stick with it.”

    I think the plan is that Hughes is the 6th starter.

  61. Condo June 10th, 2009 at 11:54 pm

    you gotta have faith,

    You’re right. The 2008 team would have probably WON the game, like they did 9 times against them last year.

  62. Dr. Cox June 10th, 2009 at 11:54 pm

    The 2008 team went 9-9 against the Sux
    That team wasn’t intimidated by them.

    And look what happened to them. 3rd Place and no October.

  63. Al from BK June 10th, 2009 at 11:54 pm

    I still think we wind up going 8-10 or 7-11 against the sox. However now we are gonna have to win every series the rest of the way.

  64. Brandon ----> Brandon 3 Cena 0 June 10th, 2009 at 11:55 pm

    randy l., Andrew Marchant went on 1050, said he spoke to GI Joe, Eiland, Eiland saids Wang’s mechanics are inconsistant, so much they have to meet w/ Cashman tomorrow to discuss what to do. They spoke to Wang and he said Wang was shaken, that even he wouldn’t be surprised to be sent back to the BP, Wang is not the same guy this yr. he just isn’t.

  65. Devil's Advocate June 10th, 2009 at 11:56 pm

    Going to the pen will do NOTHING for Wang.

    He looked great in his couple of relief outings. Stuff looked great, attacked. What could be the benefit of pitching him sporadically in blowout games?

    Wang needs to be pitching games in Scranton. Get him back on the DL somehow and figure something out.

  66. Bob(The Original) June 10th, 2009 at 11:56 pm

    Stop with all the doomsday talk.

    The YAnks lost last night to one of the best pitchers in the league having a dominant outing. It happens.

    They lost tonight, because Wang took them out of the game early. Still, they fought back and had a chance to win.

    The team is playing great ball. Jumping off bridges because they lost 2 in a row is foolish. Every team has losing streaks. The last 2 games were the perfect storm for back to back losses. They win tomorrow with CC on the mound and leave Boston tied.

    Relax and get some perspective people.

  67. Ron June 10th, 2009 at 11:56 pm

    And a memo to AROD – Your spring training is over. Start earning your bloated salary and start hitting.

  68. James June 10th, 2009 at 11:57 pm

    The Marlins would be a good team to try Wang out against… free swinging, not very patient, HRs and not much else.

    We play them after the Nats.

  69. Sevrx June 10th, 2009 at 11:59 pm

    Ron,

    A-Rod looks like a shell of himself. Outside of his one hot streak, he has basically been Ortiz.

    Can’t field the ball, can’t run, pulls everything. He scares nobody now.

  70. Brandon ----> Brandon 3 Cena 0 June 10th, 2009 at 11:59 pm

    Erica, Cena won’t show up, I will win. :D

  71. Erica - newly OPPC June 10th, 2009 at 11:59 pm

    Isn’t there some sort of equivalent to the bereavement list for when players need to leave for personal reasons?? Can they put him on the list that I might be imagining when his wife has the baby???

  72. Trophy Hound June 10th, 2009 at 11:59 pm

    Oh man, I feel so bad or Wang. At least with a hitter they can go and try and make it right the very next day. We all know how ridiculous a concept it is to think he just lost the ability to get guys out an pitch effectively. Yet Jim Abbott and David Cone lost it pretty suddenly.

    Wang is in my thoughts. Hope he regains his greatness.

  73. JJ June 11th, 2009 at 12:00 am

    I would give Wang one more start because it is against the Nationals. If he still struggles send him to the bullpen the only this season he looked good was coming out of the bullpen.

  74. you gotta have faith (right porch giveth and the right porch taketh away) June 11th, 2009 at 12:00 am

    Condo,

    okay so we split the series with the sox last year and beat up the rays. but that didnt exactly get us far did it?

    this team is way better than last years team, and obviously we need to start winning agaisnt the sox.

    they went 9-9 last year and still finished in third behind the sox. we are 0-7 this year and are a game out of first place. your gona tell me last years team is capable of doing that?

  75. Rebecca-Optimist Prime June 11th, 2009 at 12:00 am

    This team is nothing like 2008. Stop it.

  76. Erica - newly OPPC June 11th, 2009 at 12:00 am

    Brandon —-> Brandon 3 Cena 0
    June 10th, 2009 at 11:59 pm
    Erica, Cena won’t show up, I will win.
    **
    Brandon, a very serious hunch you are right. ;-)

    Okay, good night all. I am really going to bed now

  77. m June 11th, 2009 at 12:00 am

    Betsy,

    Are you still worried about Phil? He’s incredibly resilient and just happy as a peach to be with the Yankees.

    Please don’t worry about Phil. You’re driving us crazy.

  78. Brandon ----> Brandon 3 Cena 0 June 11th, 2009 at 12:01 am

    “Give Wang one more start, and if he fails, he must go to the Pen for awhile.”

    Boston has won 7 games, 7 – 0, we can not afford to end up tied w/ them at the end of this season.

  79. Trevor June 11th, 2009 at 12:01 am

    Wang is having a bad year. The sooner it’s acknowledged the better.
    Don’t count on him to return to form of prior seasons. I wouldn’t. Either deal with his inconsistency, which I think will be an issue all season, or put Hughes in the rotation.

  80. randy l. June 11th, 2009 at 12:02 am

    cb-

    the four seam fastball is thrown the same way as the sinker. the grip is just different.

    wang had about a two era at columbus before he learned the sinker.

    i think he could get mlb hitter out at maybe a 6 era rate featuring the four seamer.

    i t would just be a transitional conditioning technique.

    remember, the goal is innings right now.

    the sinker isn’t giving him the innings.

    he threw four seam fastballs for strikes tonight at will when he was behind 3-0 in the count.

    i do agree the no brainer decision is to get him “injured ” and starting at triple a.

  81. JJ June 11th, 2009 at 12:03 am

    Wang did look good coming out of the bullpen you dont have to use him just as a long man. You could use him the same way you use Aceves. He could be valuable in the bullpen.

  82. DYNASTY IS DESTINY! June 11th, 2009 at 12:03 am

    I know it’s not the same thing–Wang was a 19 game winner twice–but I can’t help thinking how Kennedy last year was asked to face the Angels in his first start back…

    Why pitch Wang against Texas and Boston for his first starts? There isn’t another way? Really?

  83. Martin June 11th, 2009 at 12:03 am

    The rotation is in shambles

    CC has been solid
    Joba has been fairly consistent but is still learning
    AJ has been a huge disappointment
    Wang has been a disaster
    Andy is hit or miss
    Hughes is still inconsistent

    We’re right back to the position we were in in previous years… one starting pitcher and questions mark in all the other spots. The design of this team, yet again, is to win with offense. We certainly don’t have consistent enough pitching to win any other way.

  84. randy l. June 11th, 2009 at 12:04 am

    the game is just starting on nesn again. i’ll be interested in watching wang again and seeing the pitch selection.

  85. m June 11th, 2009 at 12:04 am

    Erica,

    He can take leave for the baby, but it’s limited. Even a death in the family doesn’t buy you much time.

    I do think, that after tonight and after hearing what he said, he needs to go be with his wife and help deliver a nice healthy baby. Then take the time allowed and come back and try the exercise again. If after another two starts, then I think we need to consider putting him in the pen.

    I would hate to see Wang become the first Yankee to use the en vogue “anxiety” DL excuse. Even though it’s probably quite valid, it’ll kill him.

  86. Yank1 June 11th, 2009 at 12:05 am

    Didn’t most Sabremetricians predict that Wang would flame out eventually?

  87. m June 11th, 2009 at 12:05 am

    *two unacceptable starts

  88. Wave Your Hat June 11th, 2009 at 12:05 am

    “who said anything about ignoring Phil Hughes? I said last night I want Hughes to make AJ’s next start.”

    I plead guilty to not having read the complete Nick in SF opus! I guess I blew off the assignment last night and failed the pop quiz today.

    Nick, I want Wang to bounce back nearly as much as anyone not related to him or not born in South Korea. Maybe if he starts against the Nationals, he will. But I think Hughes deserves to start, and I don’t think the Yanks are going to move AJ to the pen.

  89. Nick in SF June 11th, 2009 at 12:06 am

    “Boston… we can not afford to end up tied w/ them at the end of this season.”

    Which is exactly why it’s so important to keep working on getting Wang right, since that would improve the rotation and give us the best chance to win the most games.

    Save Wang, save the season.

  90. Cal June 11th, 2009 at 12:06 am

    Next 3 games we face Penny, Maine, and Livan

    Time for this “vaunted” offense to step up and win us some games. The pitching is going through a rough stretch right now, it’s up to the bats to rise to the challenge.

  91. pat June 11th, 2009 at 12:08 am

    Alex right now is Tex in April.
    Taking his walks but not getting enough hits.
    Trying someone other than Cano batting 5th couldn’t hurt.

    Wang needs to stay in the rotation. Pressure is on the other 4 in the rotation to succeed and give him the time to get back on track.

  92. Miami Mike June 11th, 2009 at 12:08 am

    God, why didn’t we trade him last winter for a OF!!!

    They were not planning on re-signing him anyway, now they are stuck with Dontrell Willis JR.

  93. Rachel June 11th, 2009 at 12:08 am

    Wang also got a ton of fly balls that were smoked. He looks like he has zero confidence, just like at the beginning of the season. Which I don’t really blame him after getting smacked around but his body language after a couple of guys got on base wasn’t good. I can’t image that Girardi liked watching that.

  94. Nick in SF June 11th, 2009 at 12:09 am

    1. South Korea?

    2. I’m not moving AJ to anyone’s pen, but he’s going to miss a start when the hammer comes down, so give it to Phil.

    The assigment you’re blowing is on Wang, not my posts. ;)

  95. JJ June 11th, 2009 at 12:09 am

    The downfall with having both Chamberlain and Hughes in the rotation is they both are on innings limit. Neither one will pitch close to 200 innings. Thats why Wang was so important he could pitch 200 plus quality innings.

  96. NY Dan June 11th, 2009 at 12:09 am

    I may be in the minority, but I am perfectly happy with 2nd place and the wild card.

    I’ll concede Boston is the best team in the division and will win it. However, it is great knowing that barring Tampa getting hot, we’re going to the playoffs. After last year, it is a welcome change.

  97. Brandon ----> Brandon 3 Cena 0 June 11th, 2009 at 12:10 am

    “Didn’t most Sabremetricians predict that Wang would flame out eventually?”

    They did, we called them over thinking geeks but so far..ugh ! those geeks were right.

  98. Level 7 June 11th, 2009 at 12:11 am

    JJ,

    Cashman is going to have to bite the bullet and let Hughes/Joba exceed those limits.

    At this point, you can’t count on Wang. And the last thing we want is Ian Kennedy or Igawa starting big games for us down the stretch.

  99. RenataD June 11th, 2009 at 12:11 am

    Jorgie seems like he’s really pulling for Wang.

  100. CB June 11th, 2009 at 12:12 am

    For everyone that wants Wang to go to the pen just remember that what’s going to win them games in the short term now may not be what wins them the most games over the whole season.

    And what I mean by that – send wang to the pen and that’s it – this franchise has no more viable starters to turn to as 6th starters should someone get hurt.

    Ian Kennedy is hurt. There’s not one on that AAA staff you would trust to make MLB starts unless you believe Sergio Mitre is going to come back quickly in his TJ rehab. Aceves won’t be stretched out anymore. And you take Aceves out of the pen and that really weakens the pen.

    If Wang goes to the pen now he’s likely in the pen for the entire year. If Andy gets h is tired shoulder or AJ gets hurt then they don’t have a starter to turn to.

    And that’s without getting into the problem of what to do when Joba and Phil’s innings limits come up.

    This team needs at least 6 starters this year. Put Wang in the pen now making the numbers work and having the required rotation depth becomes very difficult.

  101. RenataD June 11th, 2009 at 12:13 am

    “And the last thing we want is Ian Kennedy or Igawa starting big games for us down the stretch.”

    Kennedy’s recovering. He won’t be back for a while.

  102. Wangawa June 11th, 2009 at 12:13 am

    I’m as big a Wang fan as anyone else, but the guy is a shell of what he once was. The guy may have his good stuff back, but if he’s throwing a ton of sinkers at people’s feet and walking guys like crazy, there’s no point in sending him out there. You end up using Hughes anyway because Wang can’t even last 4 or 5 innings.

  103. Nick in SF June 11th, 2009 at 12:13 am

    Brandon, the Sabremetricians predicted the Lisfranc? Really?

    Link?

  104. Pat M. June 11th, 2009 at 12:13 am

    I thought Wang had the best movement he’s had thus far this season….One thing Boston did was just sit until he threw strike one….He fell behind so often in the 1st inning it ran up his pitch count and the scorboard as well….A fouseamer wuold help, however until he displays the ability to get ahead in the count we’ll see more of this to start off the game……Give him at least 2-3 more outings, and develop some rynthem

  105. Frank June 11th, 2009 at 12:13 am

    The morale of the story -

    Once Wang starts pitching better… TRADE HIM. Do not let him lose his value yet again. Right now, we couldn’t even get Will Nieves for him.

    Fake DL him, let him pitch in Scranton for a while, make a start or two at the ML, then trade him.

  106. randy l. June 11th, 2009 at 12:14 am

    thanks brandon

    it’s a given his mechanics are off. they’ve been off all season because cashman told him to do nothing over the winter and he came back weak.

    if wang can’t throw a 96 mph fastball, he can’t throw a 93-94 sinker .
    he’s just now touching 95 with the fastball.
    he’s one click away from getting his fastball where it needs to be.
    his release point was the best it’s been tonight.

    i say give him two more starts .

  107. Wave Your Hat June 11th, 2009 at 12:14 am

    Nick, I give up for now. You have three hours on me and you are probably still a young man. I am getting older by the minute and am toddling off to sleep now.

  108. Much Ado about Something June 11th, 2009 at 12:14 am

    It used to be that young arms who were going to be starters worked out of the bullpen for a while rather than feeding them to the wolves. It all depends on trying to keep the work steady enough and give some length to the outings.

    I think the Yankee fans could stand to take a lesson from the RS fans in how they treat Ortiz. They haven’t been booing him, they cheer for him and go overboard when it comes to him actually producing. I know they don’t do this for all their players, but it is commendable to see them giving support for him. Imagine if Yankee fans did that for A-Rod or Matsui when they go into slumps. … Yeah, I know, never happen.

  109. Jones June 11th, 2009 at 12:15 am

    “Ian Kennedy is hurt. There’s not one on that AAA staff you would trust to make MLB starts unless you believe Sergio Mitre is going to come back quickly in his TJ rehab. Aceves won’t be stretched out anymore. And you take Aceves out of the pen and that really weakens the pen.”

    I know nobody else thinks so but I think down the road Ian Kennedy can be a decent pitcher. I don’t know if he’ll ever get another shot but I refuse to believe that he’s another Igawa.

  110. Role Call June 11th, 2009 at 12:16 am

    The hitters outside of Tex/Damon AND pitchers are just slumping together right now, at the worst possible time.

  111. m June 11th, 2009 at 12:16 am

    I don’t WANT to put WANG in the pen. But the object is to get length and keep the team in the game for the first 5-7 innings. I say give him one or two more starts rather than make the knee-jerk move right away. Jorge is right, Wang’s earned that.

    We are, unfortunately, back to square one. Wang is shell-shocked. Can Wang’s confidence be rehabbed like his hip was?

  112. 77513 June 11th, 2009 at 12:16 am

    Maybe they could convert Wang into a 1 or 2 inning pitcher out of the bullpen. He did look the best in that role this season. Maybe after his injury he doesn’t have enough strength to be a starting pitcher.

  113. Nick in SF June 11th, 2009 at 12:17 am

    Just imagine how many hours they have on you in -Taiwan- South Korea. It’s already tomorrow there… ;)

  114. Eric June 11th, 2009 at 12:17 am

    Lost in all this is how good the bullpen has been lately.

  115. Thomas June 11th, 2009 at 12:17 am

    Start him again please!

  116. Betsy June 11th, 2009 at 12:18 am

    M, I’m not worried for Phil – he’s fine. I don’t see how being yanked around is good for his development – it’s just not.

  117. Harold June 11th, 2009 at 12:19 am

    Have they even tried therapy on Wang? Or did they neglect to look at the mental aspect of his rehab?

    This organization just had no idea how to handle pitchers.

  118. Nick in SF June 11th, 2009 at 12:19 am

    m: you didn’t watch the game but Wang is shell-shocked?

    Back to square one?

    What?

  119. CB June 11th, 2009 at 12:20 am

    “Wang also got a ton of fly balls that were smoked.”

    Wang faced 17 hitters tonight. 11 made contact. He induced 6 ground balls and 5 line drives/ fly balls. 2 of those fly balls were the last few hitters he faced when he was clearly tiring.

  120. m June 11th, 2009 at 12:20 am

    Betsy,

    The one silver lining is Phil’s stint in the pen will extend his stay in the Bronx by conserving innings.

    Phil’s development will be okay. His main obstacle is staying healthy.

  121. Wave Your Hat June 11th, 2009 at 12:20 am

    “Just imagine how many hours they have on you in Taiwan South Korea. It’s already tomorrow there… ”

    I knew that…just testing…seeing if you were on your toes…how do you do that cross out thing anyway?

    Adios.

  122. ellen June 11th, 2009 at 12:21 am

    CB- I agree with your argument that the team needs someone who will be a “go-to” guy as a starter in case of injury. The problem as I see it is, right now, Wang does not resemble a viable starter. I don’t pretend to know what’s wrong with him, much less how to fix it. But to my untrained eye, he’s a mess. I don’t see how he’s a viable replacement for one of the starters (in which I include Hughes) should one go down.

  123. Trevor June 11th, 2009 at 12:21 am

    Wang is not pitching 200 innings this year. He’s not even at 30 innings. Some of our relievers have more innings.
    I just think he’s having an off year. You know he hasn’t had one yet. He’s been good every year. This so far looks like the year.
    Really sucks because they where counting on his innings this year. Joba or Hughes might just have to exceed their innings a bit.

  124. Garcia June 11th, 2009 at 12:22 am

    Why are people feeling so sorry for Wang? He is making $5 million dollars this year. His family is setup for life.

    Me on the other hand, I have to deal with the slumping economy and trying to find my way through corporate America in this climate. Why doesn’t anyone feel sorry for me?

  125. Nick in SF June 11th, 2009 at 12:22 am

    It’s easy.

    Wang needs to be in the -bullpen- rotation.

    See?

  126. timo June 11th, 2009 at 12:22 am

    “CC has been solid
    Joba has been fairly consistent but is still learning
    AJ has been a huge disappointment
    Wang has been a disaster
    Andy is hit or miss
    Hughes is still inconsistent”

    Although CC has missed all of the Boston games (and all of the L’s) the team’s W-L percentage with CC starting is still lower than for any other starter except Wang.

    In games against teams other than Boston, the team is 27-9 with Andy, Joba, AJ and Phil starting, 6-6 with CC and 1-3 with Wang.

  127. randy l. June 11th, 2009 at 12:23 am

    i just watched wang throw the first inning. he had no trouble throwing the four seam fastball for strikes. he threw two in a row to kotsay at 3-0 and then came back with a sinker that kotsay grounded out for the last out.

    the grounder that knocked the run in was not hit hard, but was justin the right place.

  128. kill.schill(ing) June 11th, 2009 at 12:23 am

    This organization has mismanaged Wang and aggravated his problems from the outset.

    They activated him precipitately. They moved him into the rotation prematurely. Now, they’re going to act rashly and return him to the bullpen and punish him for their folly.

    What irony. It never stops does it with this front-office. The misprision proliferates.

    Brian Cashman, they should name a business school after you.

    The George W. Bush School of Executive Administration and Baseball Management.

  129. Irrational Thinker June 11th, 2009 at 12:23 am

    Wang never struck me as a particularly mentally strong pitcher. Seems kind of quiet, can get rattled easily, and always used to lose it when someone made an error or he had a couple guys on base. He just never seemed to have great mental toughness.

    He was probably the worst pitcher that the lisfran injury could have happened to. It is in his head now.

    The mental aspect is the road block. His stuff was ELECTRIC tonight.

  130. Pat M. June 11th, 2009 at 12:23 am

    I’m sorry for all the typos…GB and I attended the same typing classes…..

  131. CB June 11th, 2009 at 12:24 am

    “They did, we called them over thinking geeks but so far..ugh ! those geeks were right.”

    No actually they were wrong because many of the models are simplistic and overdetermined.

    Much of that argument assumes that batted ball that Roy Halladay gives up has the same probability of being a base hit as one Livan Hernandez gives up.

    Things like Hit F/x and more advanced pitch f/x will help address that. The first wave of Hit F/X data already makes those kinds of assertions seem silly.

    And by the same line of thinking that predicted Wang’s success won’t last Rick Porcello should flame out as well.

    Let’s see about that.

  132. 77513 June 11th, 2009 at 12:24 am

    Angel Berroa should of been playing third today and batting cleanup he is hitting 500 against Wakefield on 12 at bats.

  133. Angel (F) - 'Cos you know I was OPP(C), hell from the very start June 11th, 2009 at 12:24 am

    I don’t even know what to say to get people to have some much needed perspective.

    I’ll just have to be content with hopefully having some myself and having the company the few others that aren’t pissed off and melodramatic.

    Yes, it was a loss. Yes, it was to the Red Sox. Yes, they haven’t won a game against them yet.

    Its not the end of the world, though. It really isn’t. There have been a lot of positive things so far this season too. A lot of really awesome moments. There will be more.

    I’ve come to the conclusion that there is actually a Lohud Scientific Principle here, lol.

    The overreaction and perspective during game, is inversely proportional to the name of team they are playing. All bets are off however, when they play the Red Sox.

    Then it’s Maximum Bellevue Overload.

  134. Zolio June 11th, 2009 at 12:25 am

    When has Cashman shown he has any idea how to handle pitching?

    He gave Torre the “Joba-rules”, yet didn’t tell Girardi how to use Hughes at all. Girardi doesn’t even know what to do with the kid.

  135. m June 11th, 2009 at 12:25 am

    Nick,

    No, I didn’t watch the game. But his postgame comments don’t sound good.

    Back to square one means Wang’s mechanics are messed up and he’s getting hit hard.

    maybe he’s not shell-shocked, but he seems lost?

  136. Christina June 11th, 2009 at 12:25 am

    I agree. Angel Berroa should be the starting 3B against the Boston Red Sox.

  137. Dr. Cox June 11th, 2009 at 12:26 am

    Me on the other hand, I have to deal with the slumping economy and trying to find my way through corporate America in this climate. Why doesn’t anyone feel sorry for me?

    Wah wah wah. EVERYONE has problems right now,

    Ive been laid off twice due to cutbacks and budget cuts, been evicted because I couldnt pla rent, forced to take out a loan and sell of half my belongings.

    If we start comparing ourselves to baseball players its going to be a long, pointless, drawn out life. Use baseball as an escape, not a barometer.

    There is no comparison.

  138. Dr. Cox June 11th, 2009 at 12:27 am

    “Me on the other hand, I have to deal with the slumping economy and trying to find my way through corporate America in this climate. Why doesn’t anyone feel sorry for me?”

  139. kill.schill(ing) June 11th, 2009 at 12:27 am

    Hey, I hear the Republicans are worried they don’t have a viable Presidential candidate for 2012. Were I Republican; I’d nominate Cashman. If the Peter Principle applies, Cashman still has greater heights yet to which he will rise.

  140. Christina June 11th, 2009 at 12:29 am

    Al Leiter for president.

  141. Eric June 11th, 2009 at 12:29 am

    I actually thought the gamethread was very tame today

    Proclaiming that Boston is better than us is hardly “whining”. It is the truth. Tied with them in the standings, yet are 0-7 against them. That makes us better than them?

  142. G. Love June 11th, 2009 at 12:29 am

    I don’t want them to send Wang out there anymore. I just don’t. I have no confidence in him and worse yet, I think he has no confidence in himself.

    We are in a dogifght for a post season birth. The Red Sox are for real and are adding a determined Smoltz shortly.

    They also will trade to address their offensive weakness. They’re going nowhere.

    The Jays are somehow still in it.

    The Rays will eventually come back.

    We cannot afford to give games away.

    Starting Wang right now is giving games away. I hate to make him the long man/Mendoza type, but that may be what’s best for him if he won’t accept a demotion to AAA.

    As for the lineup, whoever said Joe needs to drop Cano is right on. For some reason Cano can’t hit high in the lineup. It seems like it does something to his swing and his game.

    It’s pretty sad to maximize his talent you need to bat him in the bottom 3rd of the order but it appears to be the way it is.

    Just put him back down there and let him rake down there. The guy hits the cover off the ball when he’s not jerked around in the batting order.

    Being 0-7 against Boston is awful. It’s really awful. We’re past the point of tomorrow being a must win. CC needs to go out there and shut these guys down and pitch a CG if possible.

    If we end up tied w/them at the end of the season everyone pooh poohing these Boston losses are going to look stupid.

    We’ve got 12 left against them. 6-6 ain’t gonna cut it. We have to win 10 of 12 now.

    Tell me I’m wrong or I’m being dramatic but then think how often we’ve been tied or close enough too it in the last week with these guys.

    They’re for real, but I think we’re better. We need to start showing it and starting Wang right now ain’t the way to show it.

    It’s one thing showing faith in Big Papi and burying him in the 6 hole.

    It’s a completely different animal showing faith in Wang every five days where he’s given the potential to lose the game all with his right arm.

  143. Rachel June 11th, 2009 at 12:29 am

    Even if they take Wang out of the rotation now that doesn’t mean he can’t be a big part of the rotation later on in the season when he is himself. They could DL him then let him make 3-4 starts in the minors and bring him back when he looks like the real Wang. I have a feeling they will probably give him 1 more start against the Nats and if he gets smacked around then he won’t make another start.

  144. JJ June 11th, 2009 at 12:29 am

    Jones
    June 11th, 2009 at 12:15 am
    “Ian Kennedy is hurt. There’s not one on that AAA staff you would trust to make MLB starts unless you believe Sergio Mitre is going to come back quickly in his TJ rehab. Aceves won’t be stretched out anymore. And you take Aceves out of the pen and that really weakens the pen.”

    I know nobody else thinks so but I think down the road Ian Kennedy can be a decent pitcher. I don’t know if he’ll ever get another shot but I refuse to believe that he’s another Igawa.

    ———————————————————-

    I agree people were too quick to call IPK a bust. Hughes also struggled last year. Kennedy having surgeory did hurt the starting pitching depth, he was the 7th starter and was pitching well in Scranton. Now if there is an injury there really is no good option in Scranton.

  145. Angel (F) - 'Cos you know I was OPP(C), hell from the very start June 11th, 2009 at 12:29 am

    Hmm, thats strange. The postgame comments don’t gel with what I watched when Wang pitched.

    But what do I know? lol

  146. Betsy June 11th, 2009 at 12:29 am

    M, agreed about Phil’s health, but fortunately things seem to be going swimmingly in that regard.

  147. Nick in SF June 11th, 2009 at 12:30 am

    m, please read the comments tonight from randy and Pat M and CB – people who know what they’re talking about. They all see real improvement from Wang in velocity and mechanics.

    It’s not square one.

    He left April with an ERA north of 30. It’s nothing like that now. He wasn’t great tonight and he had some bad luck and unfortunate -Swisher- fielding behind him.

    Don’t drink the Kool-Aid!

  148. Shout it out,a little louder please June 11th, 2009 at 12:30 am

    Pete said , *that usually means are you crazy *. @ Wang pitching again

    Thank God!!! No more Wang this season,he’s damaged goods.
    Yankees held him back from building up his strength.

  149. Soldier June 11th, 2009 at 12:30 am

    If Cashman had to deal with a salary cap, he would run this team worse than Isiah did to the Knicks.

    This year alone, his incompetency has gone to a new level.

  150. Angel (F) - 'Cos you know I was OPP(C), hell from the very start June 11th, 2009 at 12:32 am

    Now thats perspective, Dr. Cox.

    Sorry to hear that reality has bit lately for you.

  151. Soldier June 11th, 2009 at 12:33 am

    If Girardi used Hughes for the full 80 pitches today, that would have wiped him out until Monday (which is an off-day).

    At 60 pitches, he can probably get him an inning on Sunday’s game instead. As a reliever, those 20 extra pitches mean a lot.

    Tuesday against Washington is Wang’s next scheduled start.

  152. Dave21 June 11th, 2009 at 12:34 am

    Girardi probably knows that AJ will get rocked by the Mets and wanted Hughes to be able to throw a couple innings that game

  153. m June 11th, 2009 at 12:35 am

    Nick,

    I don’t need to read them. If you 3 say Wang’s improving, that’s good enough for me.

    I don’t even mind that he gave up 4 runs. Wang used to do that all the time. The problem was that he’d do it in 6-8 innings. We’re not quite there yet.

  154. Trev Sey June 11th, 2009 at 12:38 am

    I guess the “A-Rod effect” has worn off.

    Team looks like they did before the hot streak with the poor baserunning, errors, lack of clutch hits, crappy pitching etc.

    And of course, this poor execution and sloppiness had to rear it’s head when we played Boston right?

  155. Nick in SF June 11th, 2009 at 12:38 am

    Woah, I’m not one of the 3 wise men. And the 3 of them don’t all necessarily agree on the best course of action.

    It’s definitely not a dull season…

  156. CB June 11th, 2009 at 12:39 am

    “Tell me I’m wrong or I’m being dramatic but then think how often we’ve been tied or close enough too it in the last week with these guys.”

    Sure. Coming into this season the division looked to be a toss up with the yankees slightly ahead.

    So nothing has changed in the overall picture – just how the team are getting there. Sox bull pen much better than projected. Yankees offense much better than projected.

    So it will no doubt be close. Losing any game to a close division rival hurts more than a loss to another team because it’s almost as if you’ve lost two games in the standings.

    That said what many people are contesting is that the endpoint of the season is beating Boston. It’s not.

    So many people seem to feel that 0-7 against Boston is a travesty not because it changes the conditional probability of the team winning the pennant but because it just shows that boston in “in the yankees head,” “outclassing the yankees,” etc. etc.

    If the yankees went 0-19 against the sox and won the world series I could personally care less.

    Now that’s not likely.

    But the fact is in 2004 the yankees handled boston easily in the regular season and I don’t think too many boston fans care about that now.

  157. pat June 11th, 2009 at 12:40 am

    Forecast looks lousy for tomorrow. Do we pray for rain?

    Didn’t Pavano getting roughed up tonight make anyone feel like today wasn’t a total loss? Gotta take the positives where you can find them. :wink:

  158. Barker June 11th, 2009 at 12:40 am

    Everybody who was trashing AJ -

    How about CC step up and throw a big game tomorrow? He is getting paid twice as much as SJ and was supposed to carry the team. He has been solid, not spectacular and has yet to beat any good teams

    Time for him to step up.

  159. S.A.--The sun will come out tomorrow; I'm down with the OPPC June 11th, 2009 at 12:41 am

    I just wanna see the Wang of old. The Yankees need that Wang.

    I really just want to give that man a hug, none of this can be easy for him

  160. G. Love June 11th, 2009 at 12:42 am

    Regardless of what I posted above I do think that Wang will get the start against the Nationals on Monday.

    You almost have to pitch him against one of the worst lineups in the NL and hope that’s enough to give him a confidence boost and get him right.

    However, if he spits the bit on Monday he won’t be in the rotation any longer until someone else goes down.

    If the Nats start smacking HR’s out of the bandbox on Monday against him it’ll be the last we see of him as a starter for quite some time.

  161. Arizz June 11th, 2009 at 12:42 am

    Please no rain tomorrow

    I cannot wait until August to win a game against Boston. Penny will also be long gone by then.

    Tomorrow is far and away our best chance to win a game against these guys and they need to capitalize.

  162. Nick in SF June 11th, 2009 at 12:44 am

    “He is getting paid twice as much as SJ…”

    Wow, I didn’t know SJ did that well. And he still slums on here with us!

  163. swingsandmisses June 11th, 2009 at 12:44 am

    “I think the Yankee fans could stand to take a lesson from the RS fans in how they treat Ortiz. They haven’t been booing him, they cheer for him and go overboard when it comes to him actually producing.”
    It was kind of amusing to hear them cheer loudly after he hit a long fly ball, like “Yay, progress!” But yeah Yankee fans will never do that. No one commended Alex for moving Tex over to third when he swung at the first pitch though Tex eventually scored on a groundout.

    This team is performing not much differently the the ones of the last four years: good hitting (that gets shut down by good pitching) and inconsistent pitching. Even though they may well make the playoffs, it’s hard for me to imagine them faring well against Verlander/Jackson or Beckett/Lester in a short series.

  164. peri June 11th, 2009 at 12:44 am

    sometimes when i read the comments on this blog my mind wants to explode. people saying we’re lazy and sloppy? uh… did that happen during the 9 game win streak or the 19 game errorless streak?

    yesterday we ran into a buzz saw in a tremendously hot beckett, a guy who is s 3-0 with a 0.91 ERA in his last four starts. we sent out burnett and he couldn’t locate worth a damn. not many teams can bounce back from that.

    today wang goes out and continues a horrendous season- yet we still make it a close game.

    how is that anything to freak out about? and people saying a rod hasn’t done anything since he got hot.. because he had just gotten back before that.

    I think this team is going to do great and people need to chill the hell out. guess what- bostons beaten us 7 straight and we’re only ONE game back. good god- press the panic button in june.

    I don’t care if we lose every game this season to them if we win in October.

  165. Pel June 11th, 2009 at 12:46 am

    >Things like Hit F/x and more advanced pitch f/x will help address that.

    Can’t wait to read about the 2009 summit.

  166. Y26 June 11th, 2009 at 12:46 am

    Livan has a 3.88 ERA this year

    In May and June so far, he is 4-0 with a 2.41 ERA in almost 50 innings (7 starts).

    He really hasn’t been bad at all.

  167. G. Love June 11th, 2009 at 12:48 am

    CB,

    I’m actually less emotional about the 0-7. I don’t think the Red Sox are in the Yankees heads per se.

    I think the Yankee starting pitching killed the team in back to back nights.

    Mo blew one game by himself.

    AJ blew a 6-0 lead against these guys.

    I don’t think Boston owns us. I easily think the Yankees can reverse this trend and win 10 of 12 the rest of the way out against them.

    My concerns are the record against them and how that factors into our post season birth.

    I think we get them in a best of 7 series in the post season we have as good a shot as anyone to beat them.

    I just don’t want to be left home in October because we gave away 7 games early on and then split the remaining 12 with them giving them the advantage.

    I will say this for Boston…they have no problems handling our pitching unless our pitching is Joba last year lights out vs. Beckett.

    If we’re going to beat them head to head everyone has to be on their game.

  168. G. Love June 11th, 2009 at 12:49 am

    The Mo and AJ games I’m referring to are from earlier in the season.

  169. TW June 11th, 2009 at 12:50 am

    Hi Nick in SF

    Did Pete A. say something about what the Yankees’ plans are for Wang? He’s being quoted elsewhere.

  170. Jerkface June 11th, 2009 at 12:52 am

    Livan has done that while giving up a hit per inning and striking out 5 per 9.

    Citi Field probably has been a bit of a help. As is facing Pitt, Washington twice, and the Giants.

  171. Dan June 11th, 2009 at 12:53 am

    And remember… we still have 16 West Coast games remaining.

    Boston has ZERO.

    Factor that in when talking about schedules and such.

    We also have been brutal on the West in recent years. We have not won a series in Seattle since 2005. We have not won a series in Anaheim since 2004.

  172. CB June 11th, 2009 at 12:54 am

    “I just don’t want to be left home in October because we gave away 7 games early on and then split the remaining 12 with them giving them the advantage.”

    That’s a very legitimate concern. I think everyone reasonable shares that concern.

    On the flip side however while the Sox are 7-0 against the yankees they are real great against everyone else. 28-24. They play a lot more games against everyone else than they do against the yankees.

    If that 7-0 morphs into even say 11-8 by the end of the season the sox will really need to pick it up against everyone else to win the division.

    I just don’t think this is going to last and quite honestly I’d rather be in the yanks position right now than the Sox.

    They are having a lot of trouble winning on the road. That’s a reall issue for them because their RH hitters simply aren’t the same players on the road.

    The yankees clearly need to pick it up against the Sox.

    But to me their playoff chances are much more tied to what happens with the pitching staff – specifically can they get Wang back in shape and will AJ turn things around.

    The yankees making the playoffs to me are much more contingent on their own internal factors than external factors.

    They’ve got the talent and time to win this. They really do. The pen is their major weakness but that’s also the easiest thing to improve by a trade.

    And if this

  173. Nick in SF June 11th, 2009 at 12:55 am

    TW: all I know is what Pete wrote in this post. I doubt the Yankees themselves have decided this quickly if they are going to give Wang another start or try something else, but that’s just a guess.

    There has been a lot of discussion in the previous thread and in this one about what the best course of action would be. Honestly, I don’t have a strong opinion on what they should do, but I do believe that fixing Wang as a starter should be the goal.

  174. Sea Net June 11th, 2009 at 12:56 am

    Boston’s starters have recorded 6 quality starts in 7 games against us this year.

    Out starters have yet to throw a quality start against them

    We are hitting around .150 with RISP this series (coming into this game), Boston was hitting .303 with RISP this series.

    Easy to see why we are 0-7. It’s not because it is a fluke.

  175. randy l. June 11th, 2009 at 12:59 am

    i just watched wang again.
    he really wasn’t as bad as it looked.

    for example his last hitter
    green
    slider ball
    sinker foulball
    sinker foul ball
    sinker foul
    slider swinging strike out

    girardi takes him out .
    why?

    he just threw four straight strikes.
    69 pitches. two outs.
    why not let him finish the inning and get closer to 75 pitches.

    if he gets that out , why not let him start the fourth?

    girardi made no sense to me in that inning.
    plus he brought hughes into the middle of an inning when he ddn’t have to.

    wang wasn’t as bad as the results showed. the first run scored on a play that a little one way or the other would have been a double play ball.
    swisher misplayed that ball in the second inning.

  176. Christina June 11th, 2009 at 12:59 am

    I think we should organize a blog outing to Hawaiian Luau on June 18th.

  177. TW June 11th, 2009 at 1:00 am

    It might not be a bad idea to let Wang go back to the minor league to work things out. Might be good for him in the long run. And perhaps the Taiwanese media can give some coverage to their local baseball league that they have long neglected.

  178. G. Love June 11th, 2009 at 1:00 am

    As a fan, you hate pinning your hopes for the post season on the Red Sox not being able to beat other teams since we can’t beat them head to head.

    The bleeding has to stop. Specifically, tomorrow.

    While the Red Sox as presently constituted are not tearing it up against the rest of the league, the Red Sox are going to change personnel wise.

    Adding Smoltz and possibly Buckholtz. Who knows if they trade for another bat or a good SS.

    I don’t think they are invincible, but I do think they are clearly showing up to play against us.

    If our starting pitching keeps faltering early against them it makes it harder and harder for us to reverse this.

    CC has a big job ahead of him tomorrow, but I think he’ll be up to it. I have faith in him to play stopper.

  179. Fortune June 11th, 2009 at 1:00 am

    Where is George? Hank?

    0-7 against Boston is unacceptable. Heads need to start rolling.

  180. swingsandmisses June 11th, 2009 at 1:02 am

    Actually Andy recorded a quality start against Boston in April, one of the four runs against him was unearned. I’d still have Pettitte start game 2 in any playoff series, at least he knows how to focus and make adjustments as needed.

  181. randy l. June 11th, 2009 at 1:06 am

    “CC has a big job ahead of him tomorrow, but I think he’ll be up to it. I have faith in him to play stopper.”

    g love-

    the beauty of this team is that after a couple of tough losses they have sabathia pitching in a game that if they win puts the yankees back in first.

    the red sox are not going to shake the yankees easily.

  182. CB June 11th, 2009 at 1:07 am

    “girardi takes him out .
    why?”

    randy,

    really have to disagree with you there. wang was clearly tiring that inning. it wasn’t the green at bat that was the issue – it was the Lowell and Ortiz at bats where he gave up the home run and the well hit fly ball to the deepest part of the park.

    Go take a look at the distribution of his location from inning to inning.

    It progressively deteriorates as his pitch count goes up.

    First inning the vast majority of his pitches are in the lower portion of the zone.

    Second – the majority of his pitches are down but it’s more like 60-40.

    That third inning the majority of his pitches were up in the zone. He was playing with fire there. That was the kind of location we saw from him earlier in the season.

    Right now Wang is only good for 50-55 odd pitches. That’s it. That’s where his stuff really deteriorated tonight and that’s what happenned list time as well.

  183. Yanks22 June 11th, 2009 at 1:08 am

    The Yanks should let Wang start vs the Nats. If he cant beat them then he doesnt deserve to be in the rotation.

  184. randy l. June 11th, 2009 at 1:14 am

    cb
    ortiz hit a rocket, but then there was a groundball up the middle by kotsay.
    nothing bad about that.

    then the nick green strike out.

    if the goal is to have wang throw 80 pitches to stretch him out, i think it was too soon.
    though 69 pitches helps his strength.
    his sequence with kotsay and green was fine though.

    i think if you watched the game again he would have looked ok to you on thos two hitters. at least if the point is trying to build endurance.

    if the goal was only to win the game, wang shouldn’t have been in there in the first place.

    if the goal was building up his ability to go deeper in games, i still think he should have been left in.
    but i do agree that he was tiring.

  185. stuart a June 11th, 2009 at 1:15 am

    oh my god tampa and toronto are still in the race!!!!!!!!!!!

    einsteins everyone except the nats and a few other terrible teams like baltiomore are in the race, the seaso is 33 % done.

    it is laughable fans lack of perspective. then again people were panic striken when the yanks were like 13 and 16…

    get a grip little boys and girls the yanks are fine.. that is right I say they will be fine… Look at all the changes so far this season; aceves, coke, etc…

    this team is very talented and they have ways internally to fix there problems………………………….

    wang, I give him one more start, maybe.. I DFA veras and berroa immediately and start there………………….

  186. randy l. June 11th, 2009 at 1:19 am

    “He has to take what he does in the bullpen onto the field,” Eiland said. “I know I’ve said that before.””

    oh crap. did he really say that again?

    his arm slot was much lower.

    and that’s why his sinker was better.
    not sure what eiland is talking about here.

  187. CB June 11th, 2009 at 1:23 am

    “if the goal was only to win the game, wang shouldn’t have been in there in the first place.”

    But this is the conundrum. The goal is to do both – win the game and build his stamina because that will be best for the long run.

    And right now those two goals – winning and building stamina – seem to be in opposition.

    So the best way to balance them IMO is to determine the cut off point where his performance deteriorates significantly in terms of his stuff.

    And right now tha point is around 50-55 pitches. After that he gets up in the zone.

    At best perhaps he can get by Kottaras because he’s terrible. But the top of the line up would have punished him.

    I don’t know if they did but after he was done today they should have sent him to the pen to throw another 15 pitches or so like they’d do in spring training.

    The more I think about this those two goals – winning and building stamina – will be very difficult to manage.

    He needs to go the minors. He really does. That’s best for Wang and that’s best for the club.

    They should just say that he still has residual weakness in his hips/ legs – which I have little doubt is actually true. Put him on the DL and then have him start throwing simulated games with hard pitch count totals and lots of leg exercises.

    I think that’s what he needs. I don’t think his legs are entirely right yet.

  188. Pat M. June 11th, 2009 at 1:26 am

    Nick in SF….You are most certainly a wise man..The Gospel according to ….. Randy I, interesting that the arm slot as become a focal point when discussing the Wang-Man and his issues……G Love, I’m actually surprised my your recations to the Club and the Sox going yp 7-0 so far this season…..The only thing it means is that The Yanks have kept them close….Boston goes on the road and will go 3-6 or something near there…..Yanks win the East by 5 games….

  189. Nick in SF June 11th, 2009 at 1:27 am

    Are there Redsocks hitters in the bullpen?

  190. stuart a June 11th, 2009 at 1:27 am

    guys what are you talking about???????

    wang was walking guys from the start, he was not tired…

    the arod non play and the swisher screw up did not help wang.

    the fielding the last 7 days or so, has SUCKED…

  191. Nick in SF June 11th, 2009 at 1:29 am

    Maybe Dave Eiland is some kind of pitching coach savant… when he talks to the pitchers it makes sense, when he talks to the media he sounds like a dope. Wishful thinking?

  192. randy l. June 11th, 2009 at 1:32 am

    “The more I think about this those two goals – winning and building stamina – will be very difficult to manage.”

    i’m with you there.

    it is a conundrum as you say.

    for positives today, wang increased the velocity and the sink on his sinker .

    i;d like to see them give him one more start to see if he gets another uptick on his velocity.

    if he does that and gets some sinker command , he may turn the corner.

    if not, it’s the bullpen or the minor leagues i guess.

    don’t we have to work tomorrow?

    this is gb7′s shift :)

  193. CB June 11th, 2009 at 1:33 am

    “not sure what eiland is talking about here.”

    I think Eiland is right.

    It’s definitely true that on average his release point is lower (though note – his release point even tonight on his good sinkers is much more over the top than what pitch f/x shows from last season).

    But what Eiland is saying is that his concern isn’t about Wang’s average release point it’s in the variation between his release point from pitch to pitch.

    He’s not being consistent enough with it.

    And if you look at the pitch f/x data inning by inning I think there’s something to that.

  194. randy l. June 11th, 2009 at 1:39 am

    nick in sf-

    i’m actually starting to like eiland better the more i hear him speak, but the take it to the field thing has to go.

    i watched a speeded up version of the game on nesn and wang wasn’t that bad as the results show.

    i think losing to the red sox magnifies the loss even to girardi and eiland.

    i had it in my head he was going to be a 9 era pitcher for 3-4 games.
    i don’t know why they were thinking anything different.
    maybe when they sleep on it , they’ll not be so down on him.

    a win by sabathia will make everyone including girardi and eiland feel better.
    they should stick to the plan and give wang at least another start and maybe two.

  195. stuart a June 11th, 2009 at 1:40 am

    is rick sutcliffe and the telecast tonight the worst garbage you have ever seen..

    the praise on the sux is unbeleivable.

    espn hacks news flash the yanks pitched 4 guys tonight all 4 under 30 years old and all home grown morons…

    hughes the washed up underachiever is 22 yrs. old… but hey buckholtz is dominating at AAA so he is better…

    the yanks have about 16 or so homegrown players on the 25 man roster, comment about that one time nespn fools… let’s count; jeter, cano, posada, cervelli, cabrera, gardner, coke, hughes, joba, wang, pettitte, rivera, aceves, robertson, pena, that is 15 off the top of my head……….

    the comments about steinbrenner buying players, and the speed and pitching in the red sux system and roster is laughable. how many SB’s does that speedy sux team have?????????????????????????

  196. Nick in SF June 11th, 2009 at 1:47 am

    “i watched a speeded up version of the game on nesn”

    No wonder his velocity looked better.

  197. randy l. June 11th, 2009 at 1:51 am

    “It’s definitely true that on average his release point is lower (though note – his release point even tonight on his good sinkers is much more over the top than what pitch f/x shows from last season).”

    cb-

    gameday f/x had him as low as 5’9” . that’s way down compared to gameday in his other starts.
    the variable i suppose is fenway’s gameday f/x. is it accurate?

    you were right that his release would come down as he got in shape. he’s making progress. his velocity was the best it’s been and the release point was the best it’s been though varied in a much lower range.

    i think if cc wins they’ll calm down and give him one more game.

    if they didn’t have the stomach for letting him build up like it was spring training, they shouldn’t have begun this approach.

    i say stay the course. nothing has happened that wasn’t expected.
    it’s been two starts. they knew there’d be setbacks.

    that said , i like finding a way to getting to the minors just fine.

  198. m June 11th, 2009 at 1:52 am

    Did Nutscliff retract what he said about Tex & A-rod?

  199. Pat M. June 11th, 2009 at 1:53 am

    The ESPN coverage with Sutcliff & Baltimore play by play chump O’Brien was the worst and most painfully biased coverage of a National game I’ve ever watched in my life…..

  200. randy l. June 11th, 2009 at 1:55 am

    my parting words for the evening was that it was a pretty good one run game that went down to the last at bat. one game out . no big deal.

  201. Pat M. June 11th, 2009 at 2:34 am

    The Yanks are going to lose 38 more games…..CC stops the 2 game skid tomorrow and the club starts on a nice 15-5 run……

  202. E-gawa June 11th, 2009 at 3:30 am

    Wang’s next start would be against the worst team in baseball at Yankee stadium, the day after an off day… I think they’ll give him another shot.

  203. kaseya June 11th, 2009 at 3:39 am

    pretty soon wang will have built his arm strength up to the point where he can throw 100 pitches. with the way he’s throwing that should get him, what, three innings? four?

    the goal is to win games. in no way, shape or form does starting chien-ming wang help the yankees do that.

    seems pretty cut and dried to me.

  204. Giuseppe Franco June 11th, 2009 at 3:58 am

    But the Yanks are also largely to blame for Wang’s ineffectiveness because they butchered his rehab so badly by jumping the gun and activating him before they believed he was ready (after Joba caught that liner off his knee).

    When they figured out Joba was okay, Wang sat in the pen for awhile and wasn’t getting any work – which absolutely hurt his progress.

    They wouldn’t be having issues with pitch counts had Wang simply stayed in the Scranton rotation and kept taking the ball every five days as he had been doing.

    Now they effed up his rehab and Wang is the guy suffering the most from his ineffectiveness because he’s the guy who has to get his groove back under really tough circumstances now with the NY media firing squad and the insane fans.

    I’m not going to yell and scream like some loon that someone needs to be fired over this mess – but clearly someone needs at least a good backhand for putting Wang in this position.

    They need him back pitching like vintage Wang. This team is that much better with him in the rotation and they need to do whatever is necessary to get him right.

  205. !!! June 11th, 2009 at 3:59 am

    cut and dried and freeze fried eh?

    Nothing can stoke my ire like the flagrant misuse of the KLEE SHAY…

  206. NYYanksFan June 11th, 2009 at 4:34 am

    Perspective

    Nothings easy, even 7 straight

    http://www.bostonherald.com/sp.....ent_bullet

  207. Dr. Cox June 11th, 2009 at 7:19 am

    I dont care what anyone says tonight is a must win. With CC on the hill, we must tie the lead and get the hell out of dodge…

  208. Doreen June 11th, 2009 at 7:37 am

    Dr. Cox -

    It’s definitely about as much of a “must win” as one can have in June! Let’s hope CC does what CC can do.

  209. bru June 11th, 2009 at 7:40 am

    should i start cc on my fantasy team??

    regardless of all that has happened if we win tonight we are tied for first.

    cash & girardi will make some adjustments like putting hughes back in the rotation & trading for bullpen help & we will be fine.

    give wang one more start just in case he is close.you tell wang he gets one more start & then back in the pen for the rest of the year.

  210. Paul from Cali June 11th, 2009 at 7:41 am

    Wang reportedly pitched fine in AAA, so start him against the Nats since they’re a AA team. If his mechanics are still messed up in that game he goes to the pen till he figures it out.

  211. bru June 11th, 2009 at 7:49 am

    3 starts was the magic number.
    we almost won the game with wang starting.
    what is different with wang & any of our other pitchers against boston?
    all of our pitchers lost.

    he has to start against the nationals but i don’t think girardi will start him the way hughes pitched.

  212. S.A.--Youuuuse is the new Jobber? June 11th, 2009 at 7:54 am

    It’s frustrating, exasperating, driving the Yankees crazy, but unlike early in the season, he is throwing hard again, reaching 95mph on the radar gun, and if anything, he had too much sink on his ball last night.

    Indeed, he was throwing his sinker in the dirt, constantly pitching from behind in the count, and then to compensate he was throwing those belt-high sinkers that were getting pummeled as far back as early April.

    Girardi got him out of there before he could do too much damage, and the decision nearly allowed the Yankees to pull out another comeback victory, thanks to some nice relief pitching by Hughes and more hot hitting by Mark Teixeira.

    Wang didn’t seem to know why he once again couldn’t find the slot for his sinker that was such a ground-ball machine for a couple of seasons, but you have to think too low is a step in the right direction.

    Jorge Posada seemed to see it that way after catching Wang last night.

    “I think he’s closer to finding it, I really do,” said Posada. “I still think he’s going to turn it around.”

    http://www.nydailynews.com/spo.....tml?page=1

    All I know is that this is a mess and we cannot give up on Wang.

  213. sunny615 June 11th, 2009 at 7:57 am

    “But we need to see it soon,” Posada said. “It’s tough to watch him go through this.”

    No kidding.

    Hey, Wang has social anxiety disorder! Right? RIGHT???
    These people need to send him to AAA tomorrow. A flustered Wang is good to no one right now.

  214. Shout it out,a little louder please June 11th, 2009 at 8:04 am

    Do’t understand why Arod isn’t hitting.Mark is truly a great sign.Cano behind Arod has become an automatic out.Jeter went 0-5,he has the most at bat’s and couldn’t help score a run.

    Is there anyway WANG can have a (wink wink) injury,go on the Dl,play in the minors to build up his confidence and arm strength for awhile?

    When the guys see a pitcher struggle like Wang it’s a drag on the other players.The pitcher sets the tone,if he’s got command of his pitches.

    I’m proud of Phil,being thrown into the game with less than his normal warm up,and not being in rattled.He’s coming along nicely.

  215. bru June 11th, 2009 at 8:06 am

    we left hughes,kennedy & others in last year to get smashed.
    tell wang he has one more shot & then he is in the pen for the rest of the year.

    this is why you never have to much pitching.
    wang,robertson,ace,coke,mo,bruney,marte in the pen.

  216. Bryan June 11th, 2009 at 8:11 am

    Wang you hurt your shoulder get on the DL and go away

  217. bru June 11th, 2009 at 8:13 am

    wang will be fine.send him back out til he gets fixed.

  218. Shout it out,a little louder please June 11th, 2009 at 8:23 am

    I’ve completely lost confidence in AJ too.He’s not contributing to the Yankees at all.He needs a pie in the face for a different reason.

    I hope these loses doesn’t snowball into a string of loses.

    Having Wang and AJ with back to back horrible starts has been a huge let down.One could only imagine what the players are feeling.

  219. Betsy June 11th, 2009 at 8:28 am

    The Red Sox deserve whatever praise they get. They have taken it to the Yankees every which way……they are a better team. Let’s see – the Yankees defense is swiss cheese again, their rotation is pretty much a mess, their pen stinks, their offense is inconsistent at best in clutch situations…..They can get away with this against most other teams because they are better than most other teams. They can’t get away with it against the Sox because the Sox do what the Yankees do, except better.

    The only thing I would quibble about is if they were knocking Phil in relation to Buchholz. It’s pretty apparent to me that Clay gets the benefit of the doubt from every so-called expert out there (they’ve trashed Phil for his ups and downs – hey, it’s a bust – but not once did they do the same for Clay).

  220. Stefan June 11th, 2009 at 8:29 am

    Tough?? It’s been a nightmare!

  221. Shout it out,a little louder please June 11th, 2009 at 8:31 am

    bru this is why the YANKEES drafts so many pitchers.

    AL east needs a lot of great ones,to compete.

  222. Betsy June 11th, 2009 at 8:32 am

    SA, we can’t keep sending Wang out there to get punished like this – and to kill our pen. I agree with CB – he has to go down to AAA (DL him) and get his innings in where games don’t count. The Yankees can’t give games away like this………..though I mostly blame the offense for last night

  223. Balboni's Revenge June 11th, 2009 at 8:36 am

    Back to the pen I say.

    Hughes has earned his way into the rotation.

  224. Balboni's Revenge June 11th, 2009 at 8:37 am

    But remember, these games don’t mean a thing :)

  225. Shout it out,a little louder please June 11th, 2009 at 8:38 am

    Stefan tough is an understatement,if you aren’t in good physical shape these games could put you in the hospital!!

  226. Max June 11th, 2009 at 8:41 am

    Buccholz is also a criminal…

  227. Shout it out,a little louder please June 11th, 2009 at 8:42 am

    Good pitching stops good hitters,it starts with pitching.

  228. bru June 11th, 2009 at 8:42 am

    i thought in 77 i believe the year was maybe 78 when the yankees were 14 or 14.5 games back that we were done also.

    i stopped watching them,didn’t read the papers because it bothered me to much.
    point is we are one game back & all is never what it seems.

    bullpens can deteriorate,with bruney,marte coming back our pen can become great.
    a trade for a pen arm might be needed.

    we win tonigh & we are tied for first.
    obviously that year when we were 14 games back it looked like boston was light years better than us but that wasn’t the case.
    a few adjustments can go a long way & with bruney,nady,marte & maybe a trade we are right there.

    i see hughes coming back in the rotation,a trade for a bullpen arm possibly.

    let’s win tonight & get first place back.

  229. Trevor June 11th, 2009 at 8:43 am

    The Indians went 0-6 against the Yankees in 2007. But in the ALDS that year they beat the Yankees.
    Post season is a new season. Maybe they go 0-18 and beat the RS when they REALLY need to.
    Juts a little something if you want to stay positive.

  230. Mark in Tampa June 11th, 2009 at 8:43 am

    We have CC going today, hopefully he can pitch the way we expect him to. Then, our pitchers should be able to catch their breath going against NL lineups for a few weeks. Actually, the Yanks have a pretty favorable schedule from here until August. These Boston games are disheartening, but we should still be tied for first after tonight.

  231. bru June 11th, 2009 at 8:53 am

    buchholz & hughes are great prospects.

    buchholz has to prove it in the majors again,hughes is doing it now & is a few years younger.

    becket,lester against cc & burnett is pretty darn even.

    right now outside of becket,lester the rs don’t have much yet.
    i think we have a deeper & better rotation.they have a deeper pen,we have a slightly better offense.
    they are not going to run away with it.

    hang in there.we made some great moves to inch closer to boston from last year when they were without a doubt better.
    one or two moves in addition to getting bruney,marte,nady back,hughes back in the rotation we will be great.

    we are a lot deeper & better in the minor leagues as far as pitching & we are 3-5 deep with catching prospects that can be used to fill our needs not to mention ajax.

    go yankees.

  232. Bill June 11th, 2009 at 8:53 am

    The postgame is usually the same old canned answers, but last night was worth staying up for. Girardi and Posada were both visibly angry and said some things that the guys in the booth and studio didn’t expect. When Kim asked Joe if he would have used Mo (who hadn’t pitched in the 2 previous game)Joe looked at her like she was from another planet. Paraphrasing: “Of course I would have used him. He didn’t pitch last night.” Or how about Posada after the NYY were something like 3 for 15 W/RISP and a reporter asked him if he thought the team missed scoring opportunities and he said’ “No, I don’t think so.” He looked so mad nobody bothered to follow up on that one.

  233. Eric June 11th, 2009 at 8:55 am

    The Yankees will be happy to get away from this poor excuse for a ballpark.

  234. jennifer June 11th, 2009 at 8:56 am

    Jorge seemed very angry last night. Seemed like he wanted nothing to do with that post game interview.

  235. S.A.--Youuuuse is the new Jobber? June 11th, 2009 at 8:56 am

    SA, we can’t keep sending Wang out there to get punished like this – and to kill our pen.

    =================================

    Betsy, I agree with you.
    I don’t think the Yankees can send him out there again to face the Nationals. No matter what their record says, that team can hit.

    At the same time, the Yankees and even some fans should not give up on Wang. I do think we will see the Wang of old. Though when that will be, I really don’t know.

    Come up with an injury, DL him and get him going again. I’m all for that.

    The Yankees really screwed this whole thing up.

    It sucks that we are 0-7 so far against Boston, but I’m not gonna cry over it nor am I gonna crown the sox as the best team eva just yet. It’s a long season. People need to chill out

    Right now, I’m just concerned about Wang and how the Yankees can get him right.

  236. to anyone but them ! June 11th, 2009 at 8:57 am

    I will admit that I am very happy that we are 1 game away from being tied again for the lead in the A.L. East, but IMHO, any Yankee Player, Coach or Fan that is not truly p*ssed about being 0-7 to start this year to the fr*ckin’ Red Stanx,…well, they just don’t get it… :-(

  237. Evan June 11th, 2009 at 9:03 am

    When the Yanks were beating up on AAA Cleveland or the orioles everyone was happy. We see how are team really is tonight. CC was given the biggest contract in baseball for a pitcher to go out and be our ACE. Tonight we need it.

    At the same time, Wang is the antithesis. I don’t care what he did 3 or 2 years ago. Guys routinely have “good years.” Perhaps the league just caught up to him. Anyone ever think of that???

    Wang needs to go back to the pen and perhaps help the bullpen in the 6th-7th. Hughes belongs in the rotation. Wang doesn’t. It’s that simple.

    When a QB doesn’t perform he gets benched. Wang isn’t a future hall of famer that we should respect. He has 2 good regular seasons (and got rocked in the playoffs). He still needs to her earn his stripes in my mind.

  238. S.A.--Youuuuse is the new Jobber? June 11th, 2009 at 9:04 am

    But the fact that Wang would be facing a bad Nationals team on Tuesday, at home in New York, could work in his favor. Maybe they’ll give him one more chance to straighten his mechanics out.

    “It’s definitely frustrating for me,” Wang said through an interpreter. “I haven’t thrown a good ballgame in a while. It’s definitely frustrating.”

    If I had to guess right now, I’d say the odds are 50-50. Think the Yankees aren’t confused? Check out this honest admission from Girardi, which he dropped after most of the reporters had left the room:

    *”Everyone kept asking, ‘When are you going to put him in the rotation? Hasn’t he shown you enough to put him in the rotation?’” Girardi said. “Now I’ve put him in the rotation, he struggles twice, and people are saying, ‘Why’d you put him in the rotation?’ He was pitching well, so we thought he was ready to go.”*

    http://bombersbeat.mlblogs.com/

  239. Someone Else June 11th, 2009 at 9:09 am

    “When the Yanks were beating up on AAA Cleveland or the orioles everyone was happy. We see how are team really is tonight. CC was given the biggest contract in baseball for a pitcher to go out and be our ACE. Tonight we need it.

    At the same time, Wang is the antithesis. I don’t care what he did 3 or 2 years ago. Guys routinely have “good years.” Perhaps the league just caught up to him. Anyone ever think of that???

    Pardon me, but you are being idiotic.

  240. Joekuh - Mr. Sutcliffe, surrender the yogurt. June 11th, 2009 at 9:28 am

    I’m reading the comments from last night, and I just have to say this. When Wang was taken out the game, it was 4-1 BOS, two out, no one on ( IIRC ) in the bottom of the 3rd inning, and Wang had just struck Green for his 3rd SO . It was the freakin 3rd. Whoever says that we’re out of the game @ that point just wants to blame Wang for the loss last night. No, he did not pitch at optimal levels, but we were not out of the game when he came out. Phil pitched well in his stead, and gave us a chance to win. We went 2-14 with runners in scoring position. THAT is what killed us last night. Not the pitching. Especially in the top of the 3rd ( IIRC ) when Swish got picked off by Green. Don’t even get me started on his error.

    Wang needs work. Period. Not a inning or two out the bullpen work either. He needs to start every 5 days throw like a regular starter would, hopefully 85-90 pitches. Not 69. At this point, I hope he has his child just so he can get away from all this. Randy, your theory on him throwing fastballs just to get his arm slot together is an interesting one. From what I saw, when he got ahead, he had a NASTY slider to put away both Bay and Youkilis in the top of the 2nd.I mentioned this last night. But can he do it in the majors?

  241. Doreen June 11th, 2009 at 9:29 am

    Man, Jorge sure didn’t want any part of that post-game interview. :)

    I thought his answer to the missed scoring opportunities was meant to stop the questioning. Because where do you go from there – the who and the when, and what purpose does that serve? Of course, another take on that would be that Jorge doesn’t believe they really had bona fide scoring opportunities. I think the former (not wanting to pursue that line of questioning) is more likely.

    Girardi did say in his post-game that asking him 7 minutes after the game what they were going to do about Wang was a little premature. So, initial reaction, it didn’t necessarily look promising for Wang to stay in the rotation, but you know in the light of a new day, they’ll talk rationally and logically and make a decision that half the people will think is good and half the people with think is bad and half the people will think is crazy.

    CC needs to come out strong tonight, as does the offense. They’ve gone into a bit of a slumber with the bats, except for Tex, who is unbelievable. Unbelievable.

    I watched the Dave Winfield Yankeeography last night. And I thought that perhaps he was the last position player free agent to make an immediate impact. Perhaps. Interesting Yankeeography, in that he left on not so good terms, but is glad to be back in the Yankees fold. Also, John Sterling’s voice and manner seemed a lot more low-keyed than in his previous Yankeeography work. Is he ill? Or just aging? I ask because the energy level was so different, and from what people are saying about his broadcasts being really off (more than usual) this season, perhaps something’s going on with him or a loved one?

  242. Doreen June 11th, 2009 at 9:36 am

    I love Phil Hughes. Love him. I think he bounced back great after giving up the homerun. But why are people just disregarding that 2-run homerun? It was the difference in the game. It didn’t cost the game in the sense that too many other things happened, and the Yankees had opportunities to score more runs. But it did ultimately make a difference in the game. If it was Coke or Veras or Aceves or any other guy, I’m sure he gets hammered for coming in and giving up the HR.

    I know it was one mistake. And I know in the overall picture of Phil Hughes’ career with the Yankees, his outing was a positive one. But let’s not pretend he was perfect last night. His one mistake was costly.

    Just like the night before. Those tack on runs – the “wow, our relief pitchers did pretty good, they only gave up one run each” runs – put the game out of reach. Yes, Beckett was unhittable, yes their bullpen is the best there has ever been (hyperbole), but it’s big difference coming back from 4-0 than 7-0.

    People try to assign blame to pitching or offense or particular players. But looking at both games, the entire team takes responsibility. They have not pitched well, have not hit well, and have been pretty sloppy in the field. It’s pretty hard to win when all three of those things get in the way.

    That being said, I believe in this team. I think they’re going to be fine.

  243. Mike June 11th, 2009 at 9:38 am

    Wang’s problems remind me of a similar situation that happened in the late 1950′s. The pitcher involved was Von McDaniel the younger brother of Lindy McDaniel.

    Von was a lights out rookie for the Cardinals. He was a “bonus baby” and he came to the Cards at age 18 in 1957. In his first year he was a creditable 7-5 and he pitched with blazing speed.

    The following year he came to spring training and could not THROW the ball. He was carried on the roster into June of 1958, had no record and was released never to return to major league baseball.

    OK maybe that was an extreme case, but when I look at Wang’s face I see fear and NO confidence and it appears that each time out he’s fighting himself to break out of the issues he’s facing. It may be that he’s unable to withstand the pressure and he’s fading into oblivion. Personally I hope that is not the case but something is up and the Yankees and Wang need to try to fix it.

  244. Jay Hirsch June 11th, 2009 at 9:44 am

    This is June. They will need Wang and Hughes before the ned of the season. Wang’s outing was better than Burnett’s.
    Petitte has been atrocious and yet he has six wins. Go figure.

  245. Fan Interference June 11th, 2009 at 10:15 am

    The bottom line, we need CC to pitch like he did down the stretch for Milwaukee today. That’s what we paid him for, and that’s why he’s here. If he can’t get the job done, he needs to opt out, and go play in a no-pressure environment. CC, AJ, and Tex all came here for the money (Although I’ll give Tex props for being a Mattingly fan growing up), but CC & AJ are all about the dollars. Between CC and his “Family Considerations,” and AJ with his “Mechanics,” it’s time for them both to start earning their paychecks. They had better put up or shut up.

  246. Ridin this wave June 11th, 2009 at 10:23 am

    is it true that Posada can’t stand Girardi?

  247. Ridin this wave June 11th, 2009 at 10:34 am

    Pettitte hasn’t been atrocious! He’s gotten himself in/out of trouble and has had run support. I can think of plenty of games when he’s been awesome and takes a loss b/c of no run support.

  248. Benny Blanco June 11th, 2009 at 10:38 am

    Give wang one more start. Look at Verlander. He stunk last year with 6-18 and 5plus era. Every pitcher goes through this at some point in there career. He will Be fine.

  249. Seth June 11th, 2009 at 11:14 am

    I am concerned about the Yankees rotation/bullpen down the stretch. I just wrote this article about how I think we’re going to need to make a change if we want to make the playoffs or win a championship.

    http://www.downswinging.com/wo.....k-yankees/

  250. saucy June 11th, 2009 at 2:30 pm

    for the record, i think Wang always had issues when pitching on extra rest.

    thing is, those issues were usually not getting his sinker down.

    yesterday was a different story :(

  251. Jordan June 12th, 2009 at 12:48 am

    So Wang’s arm slot is consistently correct in the bullpen, and its consistently correct in AAA. Its only when he walks out of the bullpen onto any MLB field that he spontaneously loses the ability to maintain his arm slot???

    I think Wang and Eiland need to take an indefinite trip back to AAA to sort out their respective problems.


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