Today in The Journal News
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Jun 16, 2009 
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The Yankees have had issues with their pitching and Dave Eiland believes the Stadium is part of the reason. Josh Thomson has the story.
Alex Rodriguez will meet fans today. This notebook also has an update on Robinson Cano.
Dave Eiland should have kept that to himself, but he’s clearly on the firing line so I suspect he’s trying to protect himself.
Talking about the fact that the pitchers are a little gun shy pitching in their own park, by both Eiland and Cashman, is a good thing. Because it means, to me, that something will be done at season’s end. I’ve always maintained that there’s nothing that can be done during this season, so game by game gripes about which HRs were legit and which were stadium-assisted, is not productive. But overall, to keep the problem highlighted is a good thing.
For one thing, no one wants the legit HRs to be tainted. For another, no one wants prospective FA pitchers to shy away from signing with the Yankees. And also, no one wants the pitching staff spooked, especially the youngsters.
If people like Cashman and Eiland address it, even in a somewhat veiled manner, how can the Yankees brass ignore that it is a problem? But, for this season, they will have to get gritty about it. Refuse to be intimidated. If nothing else, it should build character, right??
Something was going to be done with anyway despite what Cashman or Eiland says in public. You think the owners like people talking about their new stadium as a bandbox. There is no way, the Yankee Brass won’t address that situation with the homer rate apporaching 300 this season.
If I was the Yankee Brass, I wouldn’t be too happy with the way my brand new stadium has been portrayed in the media along with the ticket pricing issue.
There will be changes no matter what’s said by Cashman, Girardi, Eiland or any other Yankee coach or player.
I’m sure that the Yankees will address the homerun situation at Yankees Stadium in the offseason. But the Yankee pitchers really need to cut down on walks. It seems like all of those walks come around to score.
The issue of whether Yankee Stadium is impacting the pitching staff is interesting, but it really is something that this coaching staff needs to address strongly. If Eiland really believes his pitchers are being tentative, then he needs to address it with them instead of musing about it in the media. Otherwise, it reads an excuse.
In fact, I think it is an excuse. Looking at the offense, while it seems as if the new place is inflating HR totals, runs were pretty much neutral (until this Sunday at least). What’s more, if you really drill down into some of the splits, the YSIII impact rings hollow.
Take AJ Burnett, for example. His ERA is actually 1.2 runs better at home. I don’t think anyone would suggest AJ is benefitting from YSIII, so why are the other pitcher’s suffering? If you drill into AJ’s numbers, you see his peripherals are nearly the same, meaning the variance is likely the result of small sample size. For the record, at home, AJ is walking 4.5/9inn; giving up a HR every 28.6PAs; striking out 8.8/9inn; and yielding an OPS against of .775. Meanwhile, on the road, he is walking 4.7/9inn; giving up a HR every 30.2PAs; striking out 7.5/9inn; and yielding an OPS against of .785.
The irony with Pettitte is that while his splits are drastic, he is actually walking fewer batters at home. His problem at YSIII has definitely been the HR ball, but he also has a BABIP of .360. Perhaps a little bit of bad luck has come into play?
Joba is the most interesting case because his ERA is double at home what it is on the road even though his OPS against is 60 points lower at home. Finally, C.C.’s peripheral splits are very similar, but there is a modest divergence in ERA.
I don’t see how anyone could reach the conclusion that the Yankees pitchers are being hurt by the new ballpark. Even that “telling” stat about the Yankees BB ranking relative to split seems to be misleading (ranking are always misleading because teams can often be one or two games from jumping up or down significantly). As of today, the Yankees walk 4.1 at home and 3.9 on the road. That’s a difference of about 19 walks over the course of the season.
Instead of blaming the Stadium or Jorge, I think Eiland and the pitching staff need to stop making excuses and simply work on being more efficient and aggressive in the strike zone. If Eiland can’t get through to them, then maybe someone else can.
Bingo. Stop making excuses.
Its not the ballpark, Posada, or anything else.
The pitchers are walking too many people this year. Its happening both at home and on the road.
The Phillies won a World Series playing in a bandbox ballpark. The Red Sox won two in a bandbox ballpark. That’s why I completely discount the ballpark excuses.
One guy, Andy Pettitte, seems spooked about the new stadium. Most of the rest of the guys, with the exception of CC and Mo, have had trouble throwing strikes anywhere they play this year.
If a pitcher stays ahead of the hitters and locates well, he can pitch anywhere. If not, especially in the AL, you get hammered. Check out last nights Indians-Brewers game as yet another example of that theory.
The Yankees need to stop making excuses and execute better pitches. If the staff does that, nobody will be complaining about the ballpark.
One problem with moving the fences at NYS is that they already had a lower capacity to begin with. Now, if they move the RC fence back @15 feet, they lose 5-8 rows of seats. Then, they bring the wall up 2 feet and lose another row or two. To do it right they would have to eliminate the first row from being right on the wall as well. All told, that would sacrifice another 2,000 seats maybe? I am not sure they would be willing to do this.
I think all they do before next season is try to play with the so-called wind tunnel effect. It could be 2 or 3 seasons before they get it playing the way they want it.
the yankees away are in the middle of the pack in pitching and have an almost identical away era to boston (4.55 boson,4.56 yankees).
in walks, the yankees are also middle of the pack away from home.
so eiland is right that something is different at home.
you’d think that the yankees would kill to have a sinker ball pitcher who could start a two home games during the playoffs and important regular season home games .
i have no idea who that would be, but i’m sure if one were available cashman would drop everything and do whatever he could to get him in the yankee rotation.
…and once that sinker baller was on the yankees and pitching in yankee stadium , i’m sure cashman would bend over backwards to do everything he could to insure this sinker ball pitcher’s success.
he would give him such special treatment that he would be given special conditioning plans for the winter and if an injury ever happened cashman would be ever vigilant and surely would never make any mistakes or spare any expense in making sure this sinker ball pitcher was always in peak shape.
cashman is no dummy. he would know that a power sinker ball pitcher would be a huge advantage to the yankees in any game and especially in big games.
cashman would spare no expense making this sinkerball pitcher happy because after all the yankees spent over a billion dollars on their new stadium. he would never do things like nickel and dime the sinker ball pitcher over arbitration on silly things like $400,000 especially when the pitcher was the most cost effective pitcher in terms of wins in the last three years.
if cashman ever gets a power sinker ball pitcher, he’ll know that pitcher is worth his weight in gold in the homer happy yankee stadium. yes, if only there were someone like that.
SJ44-
Actually the Yankees are 2nd in the league in walks at home and 17th on the road. Attached is Tyler Kepners article from the Times this morning, that addresses this. Even though the article also focuses on Posada, and I don’t believe it’s his fault, it’s an interesting read and certainly will fuel this ongoing debate some more.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06.....f=baseball
Randy I,
Are you saying Cashman should be trying to sign Kevin Brown and Carmona?
Because I can’t think of anybody in the Yankee system who throws a great sinker and can win 19 games. 
Read the entire article, before you blast Kepner.
Be back later.
I believe I read an article in yesterday’s Star Ledger that talked about Girardi and Eiland talking to their pitchers about throwing strikes, being aggressive in the strike zone and limiting walks.
My point was more that I see those statements as an assurance of sorts that the probability of something being done in the off-season to “fix” the stadium is high. Or, at the very least, to give serious attention to the matter. I agree that the Yankees are not thrilled about the talk the new stadium has generated.
I also agree that if pitchers do what they’re supposed to do regardless of the ballpark they’re pitching in, the “problem” won’t be so glaring. Perhaps the reason Andy is particularly “spooked,” for lack of a better word, is that he’s not been able to execute his pitches as he’d like and he knows if he doesn’t, it will be costly – BUT that would be true no matter where he was pitching.
I’m not for making excuses. I believe you play the hand you’re dealt – in this case, a stadium that may or may not give up more than its share of “questionable” homeruns. However, I’m also not against addressing a perceived problem.
Who said the Yankees aren’t going to address a perceived problem? The Yankees already have engineering firms doing studies and will probably do something this offseason.
mark in tampa-
… and if cashman ever had a power sinker ball pitcher and he went through a bad spell, he would never give him an ultimatum to pitch well in his next game or else.
wake up and smell the coffee!
cashman is way too smart to ever kill his golden goose that gave him the golden sinkerballs.
IMO, the Yankee pitchers for the most part have been terrible and it has nothing to do with the stadium. They need to stop walking batters and attack hitters.
We have seen all of the numbers on the HRs in NYS. What I would like to see is a study of how many of those would not have been homers in other parks. Because most seem to have been well out, and would have been homers anywhere.
Unfortunately, the stadium will always have this reputation now that it has gotten to this point. Any time an opposing pitcher gives up a HR, or the national broadcasts are in NY, they will talk about it, even if the park starts playing more neutral.
Let’s face it, the RF homerun was always potentially a cheapie in YS, I don’t think it is all that much different now, maybe just pitchers not making their pitches contributing to more HRs.
It would be interesting to see how many walks have scored this year as oppossed to those scoring because of a home run.
Randy and SJ I am very happy you are both here because you have bother taken up for Posada, SJ you much moreso than Randy, who has at least acknowledged that Posada is an average defensive catcher. SJ if your argument that the catcher calls the game holds water, then even moreso are the questions from the other side appearing valid since both Tyler Kepner and an award winning Fantasy Baseball writer have questions about Posada’s game-calling.
A friend of mine alerted me to the position of Christopher Harris and I had him post in on the forum since the night crew was still making fun of those of us who had questioned Posada (real grown up) and I knew it would get better play not coming from me.
“Jorge Posada, C, Yankees: Age 37. I’m a little skeptical that Posada will make it through the season without another DL stint, *and he’s a well-below-average defensive catcher and game caller at this point*, but he can still hit. He’s drilled four homers in 11 games since coming back from injury May 29 and seems sufficiently recovered from the shoulder problems that saw his OPS drop nearly 200 points last season. He’s still available in nearly 5 percent of ESPN.com leagues, and that shouldn’t be so.”
Apparently those of us who have questioned his game-calling as having deterioriated were on to something.
Here’s Kepner’s artile in the Times.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06.....f=baseball
He calls Posada’s game-calling into question also and ends his article with potentially prophetic words:
“Girardi is the one who must match the catchers to the pitchers and make the juggling work. The fate of the pitching staff and, by extension, the season, might depend on it.”
It’s definitely worth the read for anyone open-minded enough to admit that there is indeed another side to the story that apparently bears investigation.
All of this is no small amount of vindication for those of us who have been totally derided for voicing our opinion on the topic.
Oh, Yankee Traders. I was keeping my fingers crossed that no one would repost the link to Kepner’s article.
Not because it isn’t newsworthy or anything, but because I see no good coming from an extension of that debate here. It seems that people get dug in on one side or the other, it’s like a battle where either side wants a “victory.” The numbers give one pause, but don’t necessarily indicate causality. Agreeing that Cervelli and Molina are good to very good defensive catchers doesn’t necessarily mean one believes they should ascend to full-time or slightly more than part-time players. And more to the point, I don’t see any change being made for any number of reasons. So the debate will rage on, and the not-so-subtle personal attacks will continue. It’s not black-and-white.
Randy l -
CMW will have a good game today. Worms will be sacrificed and all will be well, once again.
Wonder what roster move we make today…Does D-Rob go down or does Tomko or Veras get released
SJ…if you were going to Arthur Ave before the game where would you recommend?
There would only be estimates on what and wouldn’t be home runs, because there are no exact measurements being taken. These hit charts aren’t accurate for distance or location. The “accuraweatherstudy) is absurd in placing it at 19% (20+ homers)
rnady I,
The worst thing to happen this year may have been the Adam Jones liner off the leg of Joba. That cost Wang one or two extra starts in the minors. Because of his lack of use while in the bullpen, he is now making ML starts from a physical point behind where he was when Joba got hit.
The kicker is that they had at least 3 days to decide what to do, and see if Joba would be OK, but panicked and called Wang up immediately. The minute they did that ensured that this would be the path taken, because Wang could not be sent back down.
So we’re quoting Kepner and a fantasy baseball writer to support your argument against Posada. Interesting, but I’m not buying what they have to sell about Posada because it’s not the catcher’s fault that his pitchers are so wild in the zone that they go to full counts on most hitters.
“So the debate will rage on, and the not-so-subtle personal attacks will continue.”
Interesting Doreen since the “not-so-subtle pesonal attacks” have seemed to all go in one direction. Maybe a lesson will be learned and the attackers will for once be humbled enough to learn to give respect and dignity to people whose opinions differ from theirs. As someone who fought this one hard and took a lot of hits in the process I want this to be discussed.
“What I would like to see is a study of how many of those would not have been homers in other parks.”
Why can’t the Yankees themselves serve as the study?
1101 team AB’s at home have resulted in 64 homers
1100 team AB’s on the road have resulted in 38 homers.
That’s a homer every 17 at bats at home and 1 every 29 on the road. Do we merely assume they hit the ball harder at home?
It’s actually not as pronounced for the pitching staff. They’re allowing a homer every 22 AB’s at home and every 29 on the road.
Sorry for the typo on your name, Randy!
GB7, I know there can be no definitive answer on what would or wouldn’t be a HR, but I would like to see something better than accuweather!
The Teixeira broken bat HR doesn’t help either. My opinion is that he hit that ball deadcenter on the sweetspot, but the bat was broken before he hit it. It isn’t like he hit a HR off of the tradedmark. But, it creates great fodder for the bash NYS crew(aka ESPN).
“So we’re quoting Kepner and a fantasy baseball writer to support your argument against Posada. Interesting, but I’m not buying what they have to sell about Posada because it’s not the catcher’s fault that his pitchers are so wild in the zone that they go to full counts on most hitters.”
It doesn’t matter that you’re buying or not buying. Kepner is a widely-respected baseball writer and I know Pete thinks a great deal of him and his writing. An award-winning Fantasy Baseball writer who studies players to make his living has a lot more sway in what he says than do the people here.
We tried to point out that these questions were not confined to the lohud blog, and they’re not. And these people who know more than we do have at least supported a lot of what some of us have questioned and postulated.
Trisha -
I simply wish the discussions wouldn’t turn personal. But that won’t happen. Sadly, because parts of this discussion are really compelling.
I think what that article does is validate that this is a situation that has aroused the interest and attention of more than just the people here on Lohud.
I don’t know how many seat will be lost but my guess is that the fence in right field will need to be moved back 10ft and raised. That change will probably cut down the homers to right by 15-20%. The fence is closer by a few feet because it’s straight and shorter than the old stadium. I don’t know why the Yankees keep saying it’s the same; it clearly is not. Seats will be lost if the wall is moved but I don’t see that they will have a choice.
For this year, it is what it is and the pitchers just have to deal. The Yankees are hitting lots of homers too so giving up a few extra over the season should not effect the wins and losses.
Walks tend to fuel big innings so throw strikes.
Let’s hope Wang gets on track this week! His sinker should be a good pitch to combat the homers.
As for Georgie, I would like to see him catch a little less and DH a little more. Not because I think he’s a bad catcher but because he’s 37 and will get hurt again if he catches too much. Catch Georgie 60%, DH 20%, 20% rest or he’s going to break down.
“It doesn’t matter that you’re buying or not buying. Kepner is a widely-respected baseball writer and I know Pete thinks a great deal of him and his writing. An award-winning Fantasy Baseball writer who studies players to make his living has a lot more sway in what he says than do the people here.
We tried to point out that these questions were not confined to the lohud blog, and they’re not. And these people who know more than we do have at least supported a lot of what some of us have questioned and postulated.”
I see you haven’t changed your ways since NYTimes forum, but I have little respect for most baseball writers in regard to their knowledge of the game being greater than many people that post here. Just because they write about baseball games, it doesn’t mean they know more than many baseball fans. Also, don’t get me started on fantasy baseball writers with a few of them looking like book nerds that study black and white stat sheets than somebody that actually has played or observed the game of baseball.
Enough about the stadium! The Yankees pay a premium for free agent pitching assuming they are getting top-quality pitchers that have confidence in their pitches. Pitchers that get guys out primarily by chasing balls out of the zone don’t make it out of college ball or toil away in the minors. The guys we have need to get guys out throwing strikes…in ANY park…period. It’s partially Eisland’s job to make sure they get that, and partially their job to do it. Let’s look back on some box scores shall we? How did Nieves for the Mets handle pitching in such a scary little park like ours?? I guess maybe we should trade Sabathia or Burnett for him, huh? Give me a break! Shut up about the stadium, grow a pair, and pitch like you deserve at least half of what we’re paying you!
I know people have fun with fantasy baseball leagues, but I think it’s done a bit of a disservice to actual baseball. It has put too much emphasis on personal statistics, in my opinion. This is not an attack on statistics, believe me. I just think the game is looked at differently when seen through the prism of “fantasy.” I realize I’m probably in the minority with that opinion.
I have no idea who you are from the New York Times so don’t know whether to return the compliment.
Doreen, I know I tried very hard to validate the opinions of people on the other side when I thought they made worthwhile points, and I know those of us who were trying to question whether something could possibly be afoot were attempting to stick to the issue and also to have people understand we had some serious concerns. We were respectful in the way we did it, I believe, but there were some very heavy-handed posters from the other side of the issue that were downright nasty in their comments.
I still intend to take the high ground but I will definitely alert those posters who were treated as battering rams for having the audacity to ask questions about Posada that there were some outside sources who seemed to support what we were saying. That’s all. It is obvious to me that there will always be people here who will het nasty whenever they get the chance or will be totally dismissive of opinions that differ from theirs. Unfortunately, that’s everwhere.
Doreen, I read the entire article written by Christopher Harris when my friend alerted me to it, and you’ll see there are comments about Mariano in his article also. I didn’t see anything in his other comments that appeared suspect.
Mark in Tampa
June 16th, 2009 at 8:15 am
Sorry for the typo on your name, Randy!
GB7, I know there can be no definitive answer on what would or wouldn’t be a HR, but I would like to see something better than accuweather!
The Teixeira broken bat HR doesn’t help either. My opinion is that he hit that ball deadcenter on the sweetspot, but the bat was broken before he hit it. It isn’t like he hit a HR off of the tradedmark. But, it creates great fodder for the bash NYS crew(aka ESPN).
————————————————————
I’m not concerned about a broken bat home run being the evidence to prove anything. It’s happened in other parks and it happened at the rebuilt Yankee stadium about 10 years ago. I believe it was in a game with the Angels when their third baseman hit one. Back in ’62 or ’63, Eddie Mathews hit a broken bat homer in Wrigkey Field that has hit to right field and ended up on Sheffield Avenue. The bat snapped in half. Doesn’t happen often , but it happens when a strong man hits a ball.
By the way Doreen, I loved your pictures.
What balonry,all games aren’t played at Yankee stadium.
What’s the excuse when they lose on the road,like just recently at the RS?
*Hog wash,Eiland is in “Cover Your Bum”,mode for his bad* *coaching,and letting CMW make it through spring training*
*with no arm strength* .
The only thing that stops good hitters,is good pitching.
Steve B
June 16th, 2009 at 8:15 am
“What I would like to see is a study of how many of those would not have been homers in other parks.”
Why can’t the Yankees themselves serve as the study?
1101 team AB’s at home have resulted in 64 homers
1100 team AB’s on the road have resulted in 38 homers.
That’s a homer every 17 at bats at home and 1 every 29 on the road. Do we merely assume they hit the ball harder at home?
It’s actually not as pronounced for the pitching staff. They’re allowing a homer every 22 AB’s at home and every 29 on the road.
————————————————————
No, they hit the ball harder at YS, but, pitchers pitching scared will cause mistakes that lead to home runs. Whether true or not, if you think that you’re playing in a homer haven, you’ll be more tentative and make more mistakes.
Correction: No, they ***don’t*** hit the ball harder at YS
“I’m not concerned about a broken bat home run being the evidence to prove anything.”
I am not concerned about it either, like I said, I think he hit that ball very good, just with a bat already broken. But replays of it are shown and talked about by every visiting team that comes into the stadium. Then they prattle some nonsense about every ball in the air going out. It just gets annoying to hear everybody parrot the same garbage.
“I have no idea who you are from the New York Times so don’t know whether to return the compliment.”
Well, I’m not RLevine or Kid for that matter.
By the way SJ, you can now see that this goes a lot deeper than the “fan perception” you said it was yesterday. And Doreen, from my perspective perhaps something good will come out of it because if Kepner quoted Girardi at least it means that Girardi is well aware of the questions being asked. Now the rest is up to him.
trisha – OPPC lifetime member
June 16th, 2009 at 8:18 am
“So we’re quoting Kepner and a fantasy baseball writer to support your argument against Posada. Interesting, but I’m not buying what they have to sell about Posada because it’s not the catcher’s fault that his pitchers are so wild in the zone that they go to full counts on most hitters.”
It doesn’t matter that you’re buying or not buying. Kepner is a widely-respected baseball writer and I know Pete thinks a great deal of him and his writing. An award-winning Fantasy Baseball writer who studies players to make his living has a lot more sway in what he says than do the people here.
We tried to point out that these questions were not confined to the lohud blog, and they’re not. And these people who know more than we do have at least supported a lot of what some of us have questioned and postulated.
————————————————————
He also thinks a lot of Selena Roberts and her style of writing. We all know how that went, don’t we?
If they move the fences back 10 feet, how many balls cleared the fences by less than that? I don’t think too many. Also, a ball hit within 10 feet of the fence, regardless of where those fences are, is not an out you want to count on getting consistently.
“Well, I’m not RLevine or Kid for that matter.”
While that’s good news, it doesn’t narrow it down a heck of a lot!
Trisha,
An award winning fantasy baseball writer isn’t an expert on anything but fantasy baseball. It’s not a validation of anything. The guy is predicting DL stays for players. That’s not baseball acumen. That’s fan talk.
Kepner? I see his points. Some are valid, some are not.
I’ve said time and time again, not every catcher and pitcher matchup. However, to place the majority of the blame on Posada for the Yankees pitching issues, which is what you are arguing, is
not supported by any conclusive data teams use to evaluate the position.
Vader,
If you are going to Arthur Ave, you gotta hit Dominick’s. A must stop.
Mario’s, across the street from Dominicks, is also good. Dominicks would be my first choice.
trisha-
people have given you ten years of catcher’s era and you focus on a small sample of this year’s catcher’s era. i think your assessment that posada is a problem is just an over reaction to a small sample.
get back to me if posada’s catching era stays up for a longer time.
i will say something about burnett though.
if he wants to come to the yankees and start bad mouthing the catcher who has won four rings and who really has been a second co captain for this yankee team, he is just another mercenary who doesn’t get what it takes to be a yankee.
i’m sick of pie throwing and clown behavior of players who don’t know what it is to be yankees. mo, posada , pettitte, and jeter are yankees. burnett needs to shut up and pitch to whatever catcher girardi pencils him in to pitch to.
if he doesn’t want to he can refuse to pitch and the yankees can void his contract and he can go to another team where he can do what he wants.
Yeah but I didn’t think much of Selena Roberts and her style. I do think a lot of Kepner. The only reason I pointed out that Pete has a lot of respect for Kepner is that Pete was totally on the opposite side of the fence and he might now at least take a look at it differently if someone he respects is questioning it.
And then again, maybe he won’t. But it was worth a shot.
Mark in Tampa
June 16th, 2009 at 8:41 am
“I’m not concerned about a broken bat home run being the evidence to prove anything.”
I am not concerned about it either, like I said, I think he hit that ball very good, just with a bat already broken. But replays of it are shown and talked about by every visiting team that comes into the stadium. Then they prattle some nonsense about every ball in the air going out. It just gets annoying to hear everybody parrot the same garbage.
————————————————————
The real trick, then, is to tell the Yankee pitchers to pitch their normal games and stop worrying about it. Let the oppossing pitchers pitch scared and give up the bombs. If you notice, most of the opposite field homers are hit by Jeter. Rodriguez has 1 and I think Teixeira has one. That wasn’t the case last year. There were a ton of opposite field homers to right field.
“SJ44
June 16th, 2009 at 8:43 am
Trisha,
An award winning fantasy baseball writer isn’t an expert on anything but fantasy baseball. It’s not a validation of anything. The guy is predicting DL stays for players. That’s not baseball acumen. That’s fan talk.
Kepner? I see his points. Some are valid, some are not.
I’ve said time and time again, not every catcher and pitcher matchup. However, to place the majority of the blame on Posada for the Yankees pitching issues, which is what you are arguing, is
not supported by any conclusive data teams use to evaluate the position.”
Thank you, that’s all I’m saying. Placing the blame on the catcher is deflecting the responsiblility of the pitcher from not executing his pitches. To me it’s a bogus argument and is only fueled by the internet and sports talk radio.
randy, people are all over the place on this one. Some say look at ERA, some say don’t pay attention to ERA. I am not looking at ERA or sample. I’m with mel. I’m looking at the results of having Posada behind the dish. If others who are apparently respected in their field want to attach ERA to it, so be it.
I would question your using ERA though to back up anything since players can have declines and their back stats end up meaning nothing. I’m questioning the here and now. And so apparently are others.
The guy who rated Posada went a little bit further than you did, but again, you at least called him average defensively.
We’re all on the same page about his offense, I would say.
Trisha -
I don’t think I read the Christopher Harris article. My comment about fantasy baseball had nothing to do with that; rather, just a general feeling I have personally.
I’m glad you liked the pictures. I had fun taking them! I was especially proud of the picture of Robi Cano touching home after his HR. I tried to get the others, but they came out a little blurry because the other guys got to home faster! Or at least faster than I could get my camera ready.
BTW – Bottom line, I just want the Yankees to do well. I wish the road was smoother, but it’s not. C’est la vie. And I wish people could enjoy the fact that they seem to have a very good team this year, albeit there are some bumps, and yet they are playing overall better than last season. Just the fact that games are not over in the 4th inning this seasons seems to me to be something to celebrate. Doesn’t mean I’m blind to faults and flaws, just that I choose not to dwell on those most of the time.
Hmmm, maybe I should rethink why I keep coming back here, if that’s the case.
“It falls on all of us,” Girardi said. “I’m not here to point fingers. My job is to get the best out of them. Dave’s job is to get the best out of the pitchers. The pitchers’ job is to get the best out of themselves, so it falls on all of us.”
Best quote I’ve honestly heard from Girardi in a long time. In the end all of their arses are to be held to account. This team should not, I repeat should not have one of the worse pitching staffs in all of the majors. Simply inexcusable.
As for that stadium, that fraud passing itself off as some ancestor of Yankee Stadium. Its not even a full season and I’m sick of hearing about that place. The Yankees have no choice but to move back the fences and raise them next season or this will just continue. Offers a ready made excuse for our pitching staff, especially when the pitching coach himself is saying it, what do the pitchers think hearing that. Its true what they say you don’t know what you have till its gone, old Yankee Stadium I miss you.
Well it’s officially beginning with AJ Burnett.
Again and again he’s shown a similar pattern with other teams he’s on.
He underperforms, he doesn’t live up to his talent and it’s always someone else’s fault. His teammates, management, the catcher, the fans, whoever.
That is an embarrassing quote from Burnett in the Kepner. Who is this guy? It’s just a joke.
The reason why I posted a number of pieces about Burnett yesterday from his time with the Marlins and the Jays is for context.
There is nothing new going on with AJ Burnett right now. Nothing.
This is his career. Wild inconsistency mixed with petulant behavior.
He’s just as inconsistent and maddenning as he’s always been and now he’s trying to insinuate that it’s the catcher’s fault that AJ can’t throw his curveball for strikes?
Was it Posada’s fault last August when Burnett was on the Jays and he completely lost command of his curve and could only throw it for strikes around 1/3 of the time which allowed hitters to sit on his fastball and hit .312 off his 94mph heater?
What a piece of work.
Well SJ at least you are giving more today than you did at any point heretofore and that’s a good sign. You seemed to give NO quarter to anything we tried to point out before this. If you did, I certainly missed it.
Nobody was putting all the blame anywhere. Today you say certain pitchers and catchers don’t match up, the other day you were saying they it was their responsibility to be on the same page. Nice sentiment but apparently not always possible.
You have been respectful about this, if a little narrow (in my opinion). All I ever ask for is respectful discourse without all the nasty little barbs that seem to permeate the discourse of certain posters.
I never said or intimated – nor did I intend to – that this is all on Posada. I was questioning whether any of it could be and voicing my concerns.
Let’s even say hypothetically that this all ends up being a temptest in a teapot and the people on my side end up having to say we were wrong so wrong (I’m not thinking that will happen but I also know that in life anything is possible). It still doesn’t mean that we weren’t observing something that we felt needed questioning – and we shouldn’t have had to put up with the endless abuse for having the nerve to question what we did!
Just pitch better and stop making excuses.
“This is his career. Wild inconsistency mixed with petulant behavior.”
Sounds a quite a bit like his good buddy 200+ miles to the north…’cept I’ve never heard Beckett blame anyone but himself when he sucks.
If pitchers (and pitching coach) quit whining about the ball park and throw strikes (quality strikes) they’ll get outs….and wins.
“Just pitch better and stop making excuses.”
True!
“If pitchers (and pitching coach) quit whining about the ball park and throw strikes (quality strikes) they’ll get outs….and wins.”
True again, some of these pitchers and their coach need to stop trying to deflect blame from their inability in getting better results.
SJ…thanks, one more thing are you parking at the Stadium and taking a cab or are you driving back and forth?
Doreen, I think you know you are in good company in terms of loving the team and enjoying the ride! I’ve never questioned the Yankees as a team, and I still see them ended up taking the division.
Actually this topic of Posada shouldn’t have had to generate all the hostility it did, but I guess that’s how it goes when you get people who can’t discuss things like adults. I never took part in the Joba debate but every once in a while I will see vestiges of that here, and there are always nasty shots thrown back and forth when it happens.
The problem as I see it happens when people are so enraptured with themselves that they start to be oppressive in their treatment of others. As much as I believe in my positions, I will always note that I respect the opposite take and can actually understand why people who see things the way they do. If I don’t agree it just means that I have found more things that tend to validate what I am thinking. It should be no big whoop. But for whatever reason it is.
Oh well.
Anyone watch the Joe Buck show last night? Awful show, Artie was the only highlight
Trisha,
Will you give us a break, we’re not here to talk about how you’re treated, we’re here to talk Yankee baseball.
Nobody have ever thought of Posada being more than an average to slightly above average defensive catcher. On the other hand, there is nothing wrong with his pitch calling, regardless of what Burnett says, especially people like Kepner and assorted posters think they know. If that was an issue, Girardi and Pena would have been on it.
There is an old saying:
“A poor carpenter blames his tools”
Here is the updated version:
“A poor pitching coach blames his Stadium.”
Oh my goodness. The players in this little debate are getting a little too self-important.
Why do you Yankee fans call into radio shows and demand the Yankees get more homegrown like the Red Sox….
trisha stop pointing out that your topic generates hostility, that is not an point for your argument. Complaining about the treatment is besides the point. And that all you have resorted to. Its a blog, nobody acts like an adult. get over it
“Trisha,
Will you give us a break, we’re not here to talk about how you’re treated, we’re here to talk Yankee baseball.”
Actually I’m talking about how all people are treated. I consider that important. But I’m happy not to talk about how I am treated.
Are you going to say who you were on the Times?
Randy,
Your 8:48 post is spot on. AJ is pitching the same way he has pitched in his previous spots. That’s why blaming Posada for AJ’s issues is nonsense, IMO.
Did Johan Santana blame Santos for Sunday? Nope.
If AJ wants to reach his potential, one way to do it is to be accountable for your own performance.
Truth is, he’s not good enough to get a personal catcher.
If Mariano Rivera and a host of others can throw to Posada, with rings to show for their efforts, I think AJ can do the same.
I’m not ignoring 10 years of solid data for the opinion of a fantasy baseball writer, or a beat writer looking to write about something on an off day.
SJ you’re the man.
“Are you going to say who you were on the Times?”
Well, I’m not LongtimeYankeeFan.
I went by crawdaddie
It will be interesting to see which player is deleted off the 25 man roster today for Bruney.
Hey Dave, we were swept by Boston on the road. Can’t use the stadium excuse there.
Bottom line, Dave Eiland is a mediocre pitching coach, on a 200 Mil team. He doesn’t know how to develop the young pitching the Yankees are stockpiling, and doesn’t seem to have a knack for getting through to pitchers. If he lasts this year, a change should be made in the off-season for a better qualified person. I wish Coney would take the job, I think he would be great.
Vader,
I’ve not been to as many games this year as I’d like because I’ve been busy with my nephew.
When I do go, I go the public transportation route all the way because I HATE sitting in traffic!LOL
“I’m not ignoring 10 years of solid data for the opinion of a fantasy baseball writer, or a beat writer looking to write about something on an off day.”
I respect that. And since I know that reality shows that players decline with age, I’m not going to ignore all the signs that I’m seeing with my own eyes, nor the opinions of those who don’t agree with you. I’m sure you can respect that, SJ, along with the fact that I believe you are calling this one wrong.
People can disagree and still be friends.
GO YANKEES!!!
About the new Stadium. I believe there are problems with home runs and I also believe that some of the pitchers are being overly cautious. Hopefully both things will be worked out.
Burnett will never be a consistent pitcher. He’s (primarily) a two pitch pitcher. Look at what happened to Johan on Sunday-his fastball was a couple of ticks slow and it made his change-up less effective.
As, CB has pointed out when A.J.’s curve isn’t working he gets hit and hit hard because hitters sit dead red.
AJ certainly seems to be a temperamental pitcher. And as we’ve seen time and again, those can present problems all of their own.
personally I think some one needs to tell Eiland that excuses are like a…holes and to get to work. If he needs to call out the pitchers for walking to many guys than I’m all for it, but don’t give the new ballpark demensions as the reason.
I’m not at the point where I think discarding Eiland is the answer and don’t expect to get there at a minimum until the end of the season. If the walks continue and our pitchers seem incapable of making the needed adjustments through out the season than we either need new pitchers or a new pitching coach. but like I said, I’ll reserve that judgement until the end of the season (and as an optimist will expect the pitching to improve in the mean time).
“It will be interesting to see which player is deleted off the 25 man roster today for Bruney.”
The obvios choices to be DFA’d are Veras, Tomko, and Berroa. But I think it’s going to be a pitcher swap. Berroa goes when Molina or Nady returns. I don’t think Pena or Cervelli are going anywhere.
They could send Robertson down, but he’s pitched well lately. Tomko gives them a little more versatility than Veras, but they might hesitate to release either one until Bruney can show that he’s healthy.
SJ44 -
We used public transportation when we went to the game Friday night. The next day, I read here that one poster who went to the game waited an hour and a half just to get out of the parking garage! We waited about 5 to 10 minutes for a train.
I do have a question though. We left the game early, so the platform was not crowded. What is it like if you leave at the end, when most people do? I’m assuming not everyone gets on the first train that comes.
It was the first time we went to YS in a very long time, and the last time we went we took our own car the entire way. This time, we parked in Manhattan (PA). For us, I think (in spite of the cost of parking), this was the best of both worlds.
Why is it every off day, Joba to the bullpen on these radio shows.
In case anyone’s interested. I just got this from mlb.com.
“Chat with Yankees’ Oppenheimer
Damon Oppenheimer, senior vice president and scouting director for the Yankees, will chat with fans on Tuesday, June 16 at 2 p.m. ET. Chat with Oppenheimer about how the club did in the 2009 First-Year Player Draft, the top prospects in the Yankees’ farm system and players they should be looking for in the future.”
http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/fan_forum/chat.jsp
It would be nice if our pitchers did well with any catcher. But if, for whatever reason, they do better with specific catchers Girardi needs to accept that reality and work with it. In a perfect world this would not be the case but it is not a perfect world. And it is Girardi’s job to take into account all variables and do his best to help the Yankees win. I am not talking about kneejerk reactions but a boss dealing with reality and doing the best for his team.
why do stupid people think the sox are homegrown? they have less homegrown players than the yankees.
David -
If part of “working with it” includes making an attempt at getting all the pitchers “on the same page” with all the catchers. I’m beginning to wonder if this is more a communications issue between the catcher(s) and the pitchers than it is a skills issue.
Veras is good for mop up duty only. They have to DFA him.
Robertson throws strikes and mixes in a nice curve. He needs more innings.
Posada is a great hitter, but he is a mediocre catcher. Mo could pitch to Mickey Mouse and it wouldn’t matter, so I don’t think that you can cite his success with Posada as support for Posada’s catching ability.
Excuses, excuses, Excuses!
All the more reason not to walk people.
Many hall-of-famers gave up a lot of home runs, but with the bases empty.
“Mo could pitch to Mickey Mouse and it wouldn’t matter, so I don’t think that you can cite his success with Posada as support for Posada’s catching ability.”
Very good point.
If Posada hadn’t been on the DL,and we WOULDN’T have gotten to see Cerevelli and the Yankees mount a come back in the division. This Posada talk wouldn’t be an issue.
AJ just pitched a shut out at Yankee stadium, this blows Eiland’s theory. *Eiland was the man last year TORRE was* *here* ,he brought the team JOBA.
*He took his eyes off the ball this year*.
Remember the last year Torre was with the Ysnkees,and a lot of the players went on the DL because of hamstring injuries? The MGMT fired the conditioning director who didn’t beilieve in the pitcher running? *Eiland is covering*
the opinions of professional blog commenters bore the HELL out of me
The “I can only work with a certain catcher” is a fallacy. If this were true, somebody needs to explain how they got as avanced in pitching as they did. They certainly haven’t gone cradle to grave with one catcher. Even Pettitte, Clemens, Wells, and Rivera, to name a few, have flourished with other catchers….in most cases, many catchers.
Doreen, you could be on to something. I certainly suggested the same thing as a possiblity to help cure the problem. (Don’t know if it would but anything’s worth a try!) Since over the years Posada has had a number of pitchers wanting different catchers, and since Posada has in the past been very successful catching certain pitchers, (at least in the past) it doesn’t seem like his abilities were the main problem. I think it’s his temperament and anything that gets wrapped up into that.
“There is nothing new going on with AJ Burnett right now. Nothing.”
Then we slowly wait for his contract year.
Perhaps the mentality and temperments of pitchers are what needs to change.
“The “I can only work with a certain catcher” is a fallacy. ”
I don’t think we’re hearing that pitchers are saying they can only work with a certain catcher as much as that certain pitchers have basically said they don’t like working with Posada. Two very different issues.
When you’re a pitcher who is afraid to throw strikes, that completely transcends the issue of who the catcher is for you.
The worst thing that a pitcher can do is to think too much. Joba even made that comment Friday night after his start against the Mets.
You have to focus on the task at hand, making your pitches, throwing strikes, and getting guys out. If a pitcher (or a hitter for that matter) is worried about failure or what happens if I make a mistake, he gets NOWHERE.
You can’t afford to make this game any tougher than it already is.
The pitchers should focus on attacking the zone, blocking out the issue of the stadium, and pitching with a healthy swagger instead of worrying about the dimensions of the stadium.
“Perhaps the mentality and temperments of pitchers are what needs to change.”
What do you think the chances are of that happening? It’s probably the quirkiest group in baseball. I think you have a better chance of tempering a catcher or having personal catchers in certain situations.
personally I think you swap out Berroa for Bruney and once you feel comfortable with Bruney’s health and pitching performance you can DFA Veras when Molina or Nady comes back…although rehab seems to be moving slowly for both. I don’t get to watch all the games; has Berroa even been in a game in like a month? If so he’s obviously had no impact what so ever so why even keep him around…
Dave Eiland doing a little CYA. Time to cut this guy loose.
With the Posada issue, Girardi and Eiland need to sit down with each pitcher individually and determine if they actually have an issue with Posada. If they do, they need to figure out what that issue is and work with both Posada and said pitcher that is on overcoming the issue. Obviously all of this should be done quietly so no one’s ego is overly damaged. If there is no issue than that’s that…but it shouldn’t just be ignored
TOM B what do you think a blog is,it’s OPINIONS discussing a thread topic!! All are welcome,get out of your way,join in.
This Posada business is nothing new. Andy used to like working with Leyritz, and other’s liked Girardi, as opposed to Posada. Some pitcher’s preferred Flaherty when he was here. Posada is just not every pitcher’s cup of tea, and this year it’s really starting to show.
trisha – OPPC lifetime member
June 16th, 2009 at 9:51 am
“Perhaps the mentality and temperments of pitchers are what needs to change.”
What do you think the chances are of that happening? It’s probably the quirkiest group in baseball. I think you have a better chance of tempering a catcher or having personal catchers in certain situations.
————————————————————
There’s nothing wrong with Posada’s temperment or mentality. Is job is to get the maximum out of a pitcher. Just like kids, if cojoling and babying them doesn’t work, you kick ‘em in the azs to get their attention.
GreenBeret? Kicking kids in the butt…..really?
Fan Int…that was my point…everyone agrees that the lineup is better with Posada in it, so I don’t think it’s enough for Girardi to sit by and say, “it is what it is” or “there’s nothing really there” because obviously Posada doesn’t mesh with certain pitchers and that may or may not be contributing to losses this season.
It’s easy to say that these are professional athletes that should be able to work together even if they don’t get along but I think the pitcher-catcher relationship is different than for example a QB-wide receiver. A pitcher needs to get into a groove and the catcher needs to help him get there.
It’s unreasonable to say that the shake-offs and arguments between Joba and Posada during games isn’t negatively impacting Joba’s performance. Posada (may) need to do a better job of understanding each pitcher’s style and what gets them into a groove and some pitchers, especially the young ones, may need to realize that Posada knows a little bit more and just throw what he puts down.
the main point I’m trying to get at here is that whether Posada or the pitchers are the issue, a conversation needs to be had to determine what, if anything needs to be worked out. a manager wouldn’t be doing his job if he didn’t at least look into whether or not there was a problem…and if there is than work it out.
Hokie – good post.
“GreenBeret? Kicking kids in the butt…..really?”
you don’t think he was ever kicked in the butt?
you think when told to get a job done, he said no , i want to do another one.
or i don’t like my fellow soldier. i want another one.
it’s not a democracy.
if you don’t like it , you don’t sign on.
new post – hopefully new topic
What is the “it” you don’t like? I can see why GB comes from where he does. Hell that was his lifeblood. But this isn’t the military so I don’t see why you personally can’t see the need for compromise if compromise is needed.
trisha – OPPC lifetime member
June 16th, 2009 at 10:15 am
What is the “it” you don’t like? I can see why GB comes from where he does. Hell that was his lifeblood. But this isn’t the military so I don’t see why you personally can’t see the need for compromise if compromise is needed.
————————————————————
You always harp on how open minded you are….as long as they agree with you.
Let’s get something straight. You don’t have a clue about whar’s in my “lifeblood”. You also don’t have a clue about how the military is run and why there are rules.
Don’t start on personalities. You won’t like what’s said.
I was actually complimenting you and saying that I could understand your perspective because you spent your life in the military but couldn’t understand why Randy was taking the approach he did.
Maybe because pro sports needs to be run in a militaristic style and Randy understands that.
If the walk rate is only “slightly” higher at home, then this is nonsense!!!
Also, if the wind isn’t blowing out, how in the heck has the stadium got anything to do with it!!!
I don’t think the air is any different than at the old stadium next door!!!
I have seen many of the games so far and the “staff” is not throwing enough first pitch strikes and
just gives up too many hits and walks because of it!!!
Dump Veras to someone who can teach him control, never bring back Ramirez, put Joba in pen, and acquire a good control seasoned reliever!!!
Personally, I love all the home runs. The “Bronx Bombers” are back!! Now if the Yanks pitching, particularly that joke known as the bullpen, was just a little better than my old high school’s, we’d be in good shape…
I am sure someone else has posted this, but Eiland will blame everyone but himself. Hughes and Kennedy failed miserably under his watch last year. Wang is this year’s chapter. The bullpen is up and down. I don’t know why he escapes the Bronx Cheers, but he has had two bad years. Bring Guidry back!
Walks at YSIII is bull.
Starting 6- joba,aj,andy,cc,phil,and wang.
81 walks at home.
72 walks on road.
plus, not alot of homers to left field, so pound the right handers inside.
Lets build higher walls and have a giant fan blowing in when the visiting team is at bat!!!! cmon people…what we need is solid gutsy pitching.
don’t move the fences back… those lost seats are the only ones we can afford: move home plate back because no one sits in those seats