Greetings from Seat 4-B
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Jun 19, 2009 
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Fun day of travel so far. Arrived at LaGuardia for a 7:20 a.m. flight at 5:45 and barely made it thanks to a lengthy wait at the security line. It’s a mystery why this gets screwed up. The airlines have a pretty solid idea on a daily basis how many people will be flying and at what times. Why doesn’t TSA staff the checkpoints accordingly?
A Starbucks has a lot of people working in the morning because that’s when a lot of people buy coffee. Is it some mystery that a lot of people travel on a Friday morning?
The only good part of the day was an unexpected upgrade from Delta. Unfortunately it’s too early to take advantage of the free booze. Plus at some point today I will have to try and write coherently.
Heard on the radio this morning that the USGA will not compensate those golf fans who showed up at soggy Bethpage Black yesterday and saw a partial round because of the rain. The weather is nobody’s fault, but at least the Yankees did something for their customers yesterday.
If you have an iPhone, I’d recommend doing the software upgrade at night. It’s much faster. The upgrade is free and worth it, if only for the ability to cut and paste and the new search option. I’m excited about the idea of tethering, which would be the ability to use the iPhone as an air card for your laptop. While the Sprint air card I use has been perfect, having fewer devices is a good thing.
Speaking of the iPhone, time to find a good playlist and get some sleep. Check back later on for updates from Miami.
since joba is getting into his inner livan hernandez making an early transition in his career from a high 90′s fastball to a low 90′s fastball, i thought i’d take a look and see how he compares with livan.
livan won loss 5-1
joba won loss 3-2
livan goes 6.09 innings per start.
joba goes 5.31 innings per start.
livan whip = 1.39
joba whip =1.44
livan era 4.19
joba era 3.89
i’m really impressed with how quickly joba is getting a hold of his inner livan.
it took a decade for hernandez himself to slow down his fastball to a thinking man’s level.
joba is doing it at a precocious age 23.
to shave so many mph off his fast ball at such a young age shows an unheard of maturity.
livan can not shake off catchers nearly as well as joba though because being so old it hurts his neck.
joba got the idea for shaking off so may pitches by one day seeing the new joba bobblehead doll that was just out.
joba figured if his catcher had no idea what he was going to throw , how would the hitter.
rarely is such genius seen so early in a career.
so my conclusion is joba is already almost as good as livan and in no time especially with his bobblehead move will soon past livan in being an old thinking man’s pitcher at a very young age.
Good morning, Pete – have a good trip.
Are the Yankees trying to win a pennant or are they getting ready for their lengthy decline?
Philip Hughes deserves another chance in the rotation. Jobba Chamberlain needs to start every 5th day- at Scranton.
Andy Pettite, sad to say, appears like a spent force. All he has left is his stare.
Girardi should sit down ARod and give that hip a rest. He is obviously a shell of his former drug enhanced self
haha that’s awesome. Thanks for being the first post too.
With the way they’ve handled the whole Wang situation, I wouldn’t be surprised if Joba is still hurt.
Graphs don’t lie.. a slight decline to a sudden drop:
http://www.fangraphs.com/pitch.....position=P
Randy, there’s no question but that Joba has lost the dominance that he had when he first came up. And it’s not just a question of his needing to learn to be a starter. He was a starter his whole life before the Yanks put him in the pen when he came up. He no longer pitches 97-99 and it takes him a couple of innings to even reach the mid 90s. Something changed when he hurt his shoulder and neither Joba nor the team has faced it publically. He can still be a very good starter, I think, but not with the breathtaking dominance we expected. Livan’s stayed around a long time now.
LOL at Randy. That’s really funny.
I am surprised they haven’t reined Joba in more on the shake off nonsense. If last night showed anything, it showed just how silly the “Its Posada’s fault” crowd are when it comes to Joba and the staff in general.
The Yankees have two guys that are nightmares to catch. Joba and AJ. Two very stubborn guys who have a track record of being hard to catch.
There are some organizations who have pitchers like that who are instructed to NEVER shake off a catcher until they show more in their given role.
Its more than just pitch selection. When Joba goes into this routine, he slows himself down, completely loses his rhythm, and eventually loses the strikezone.
He’s fortunate he’s in a nicer, calmer era. If Thurman Munson was catching him, there would be a fistfight on the field! lol
I think Joba is a talented kid who makes it WAY too tough on himself with how he handles his business on the mound.
To that end, I think they have to lay down the law to him. Let the catcher call the game and you concentrate on executing the pitch called. If he won’t do that, send him to Scranton to shake off Kevin Cash and Chris Stewart. my guess is, he will get the message.
Joba’s way isn’t working. Perhaps its time to do it differently. Who knows, it might just work.
As far as the offense is concerned, the amazing thing to me is, when they slump, EVERYBODY goes cold at the same time. Been happening for the last 4 years. I’ve never seen anything like it. Sad thing is though, when it happens, it usually last 3-4 weeks and we are only in Week 2 of it now.
Hopefully, this team plays a whole lot better on this roadtrip than they did on this homestand.
Randy — great post.
I’m worried that Joba’s earlier good attitude has morphed into uncontrolled cockiness. I agree with SJ44 – they need to lay down the law with Joba. It’s not like he’s some HOFer we have to assuage. He’s a freakin’ kid who doesn’t know as much as he seems to think he does.
Yesterday must have made Posada feel just a little bit better about himself after taking a beating from all sides on his so-called inability to call games. Posada can be a donkey just like Joba, but in he’s earned the right. Joba is nowhere close to having earned anything.
As far as the loss of velocity is concerned, that’s as much mechanical as physical. Physical in the sense that it now takes him a long time to build up his velocity. That’s the byproduct of his shoulder injury which, I always feared was more serious than the Yankees let on.
The other part of it is, his mechanics get out of whack when he gets out of rhythm. Instead of driving toward home plate, using his legs to generate his power/velocity, he has a tendency to spin off his back foot to try and generate velocity. That makes his arm lag behind his body and he loses the pop on fastball and the command of his slider.
The staff and the catchers constantly work with him on it. However, in the heat of battle, the mechanics still aren’t good enough to be repeated consistently. That’s what being a young pitcher training on the job is all about.
In the “old days”, a 23 year old kid like Joba would be learning all this at the minor league level. However, that’s not the case today so these lessons, painful as they can be, happen on the big stage.
I would expect his teammates to let Joba know that although he likes to show off and play little Nero on the mound, they like to win.
If not, it will be up to Girardi. Who knows, maybe this year he’ll be up to getting a young player under control. Last year the season was nearly over before that thought occurred to him.
No reports in Boston about Clemens being around let alone doing a signing. I think someone was messing with you Peter.
On the team slump pattern, my gut tells me that Jeter’s dings have real negative offensive/defensive impact…
Conversely, when Jeter is healthy, the Yanks seem to just hit better.
SJ44 & randy
One thing that appears to me to be part of Joba’s problem is that he has fallen in love with the strikeout. He seems too focused on that than pitching to get outs.
I think all the attention he got has to some degree gone to his head.
It has to be some kind of goofy mechanics thing regarding Joba’s velocity.
People keep erroneously repeating that Joba has yet to throw in the 97+ MPH range this season and that’s absolutely not true.
He was hitting 97-98 MPH in the 7th and 8th innings at Cleveland earlier this month and he later told the media that he believed that spike in velocity happened because his mechanics were the best he’d had all season.
Check out Gameday and see for yourself:
http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/gameday.....de=gameday
Maybe his shoulder felt extra good that night or perhaps there’s some substance to his mechanics claim.
Reminds me of last night’s Red Sox/Marlins game. How would you have liked to shell out $75 or $150 or $300 and sit out in the rain and only be able to see just over 5 innings and that’s it? Guess that’s just a chance you have to take. How many games a year are called early? Not many. But still. I would not be pleased.
Its kind of tough for his teammates to do it for one reason……they didn’t exactly tear the cover off the ball the past week, with the exception of Sunday.
This is a Girardi-Eiland-Harkey-Pena deal. They have to sit down with him and lay down the law to him.
Funny thing is, the ENTIRE league knows what Joba is doing. He constantly shakes off the catcher in deep counts and everybody knows its to throw the slider. Since he rarely throws it for strikes anymore, hitters just lay off it and their either walk or get back into a favorable count.
Its a big reason why he struck out so many Red Sox looking in that start at the stadium. After they pounded him in the first inning, they used this strategy. Ironically, it was the only start this year Joba consistently threw the slider for strikes. Therefore, a lot of guys struck out looking.
13 starts, 12 of them he can’t throw the slider consistently for strikes. As a hitter, you take those odds everytime against a kid with Joba’s stuff.
A BIG difference between major league hitters and minor league hitters is pitch recognition. Major league hitters recognize pitches much faster than minor league hitters.
A slider comes at a hitter with a “dot” on the ball. The spin creates a look as if the ball on a “dot” on it. Major league hitters, especially good ones, can pick that up faster than minor league hitters, and will lay off the pitch.
Its why all of the Posada second guessing about pitchcalling the other night was so funny to me. With a kid like Joba, you HAVE to establish his fastball early in the game. You have to with most pitchers but, especially with Joba.
If you, everything works off the fastball. He also gets his macho groove on and his mechanics seem more consistent when this takes place.
He’s a tough one to catch. Glad I’m not doing it. lol
I’m beginning to agree that his shoulder injury was a bit more serious than was let on. But I also wonder if Joba might be a little hesitant to “air it out” because he’s afraid of re-injury? Is that even a possibility? Maybe not even consciously afraid, but sub-consciously he could be trying to make sure it doesn’t happen again?
Joba’s not doing a terrible job, he’s just not showing a whole lot of progress.
I’m hoping the warmer weather in Florida (I’m assuming it’s warmer than 65-degrees) will help the Yankees heat up a bit. Lame excuse, I know, but the team has for the last few years done better once the April/May chill left the air. May wasn’t nearly as bad weatherwise as June as turned out to be. It stinks, though. I simply can’t understand how hot and cold this offense can be. Especially since there are new people in there this season – notably Teixeira, who is a real impact player.
I said it yesterday, and I heard it on the post-game last night, that perhaps ARod is not the protection for Tex as he was when he first returned. He did hit some HRs at first, and pitchers had to be leery of him; but it’s got to be common knowledge now that ARod’s not hitting and you don’t have to be that careful for now. I’m not suggesting they take him out or move him around, just citing the obvious, I guess. Until ARod starts to get even an occasional big hit, there’s going to be a little drag in the middle of that lineup. Last night, he did have one at-bat where he drove the ball hard – it would have been a nice hit and would have setup a possible scoring inning, had a really good catch not been made on it. Sigh.
Pete, have a safe trip.
Pathetic
GF,
Its definitely his mechanics. You generate velocity with your legs as a pitcher. He has a tendency to spin off his back foot on the mound. When that happens, the velocity goes down the tubes.
His ball also flattens out when his mechanics are out of whack. The fastball becomes too straight with no run to it. Flats did a nice job of picking that up in the broadcast yesterday.
You wish he could go to the minors and work on all this stuff. Unfortunately, that’s not going to happen.
So, its on the job training at the major league level for him to be a starter and there are going to be rough patches along the way. Not the best way to do it but, its the only way they can do it right now.
hobbie June 19th, 2009 at 7:43 am
Philip Hughes deserves another chance in the rotation. Jobba Chamberlain needs to start every 5th day- at Scranton.
Andy Pettite, sad to say, appears like a spent force. All he has left is his stare.
Girardi should sit down ARod and give that hip a rest. He is obviously a shell of his former drug enhanced self.
—————-
If you’re advocating all these rotation moves who the hell is going to pitch in the rotation to fill these vacated slots?
Brett Tomko? Kei Igawa?
Secondly, Joba has surrendered just 3 ER or less in 22 of his 25 major league starts, which is phenomenal for such a raw talent in this division, and has been the second best starter they’ve had all season.
So even when Joba pitches poorly he still has the ability to limit the damage and keep his team in the game.
He’s allowed 4 ER once this season and 5 ER once. He’s limited the opposition to 3 ER or less in every other outing this season.
That’s why this kid is going to be something special when he learns how to harness his talent and matures as a pitcher.
I love all the “moves” the crybaby contingent want to see.
Yeah, let’s sit down Arod and play Angel Berroa. Makes a lot of sense to me.
Let’s put Kei Igawa in the rotation. Perhaps even Casey Fossum while we are at it.
Here’s a little known fact…..Over the course of a long season, players slump. Shocking I know but, it happens.
If you want to play musical chairs with the lineup on a nightly basis, thinking that will make things better, you actually make things worse.
Basically, for two reasons. One, you don’t have anybody better to replace the slumping guys. Two, once you get in a guys head that he is a problem, it makes his slump last longer because, believe it or not, these guys CARE about winning and their performance.
The same people who want Pettitte off the team and Arod benched are the same people who wanted Mark Teixeira benched when he was slumping. How did that work out?
You ride out the slumps and keep grinding. That’s all you can do.
SJ, the thing is – they didn’t mind doing it to Phil. I understand Phil had just given up 8 runs in Baltimore and completely took them out of the game, but if they are unhappy with Joba’s attitude (or whatever), they should treat him the same way.
One other thing I was thinking about regarding Joba. Could he be too conscious of his innings limit? Trying to be too perfect (which, of course, always counterproductive)?
Am I thinking about this too much???
Frankly, if AJ was more consistent and if Wang had been Wang to start the season, I think some of the worry about Joba wouldn’t even be there. He’s the #5 guy. But right now, there’s only one guy who can be counted on, CC, and even he has his “one bad inning.”
I agree that Joba is hurting himself by shaking off the catcher so much and I would flat out ban it for two starts. His velocity is also down in part because he throws too damn many sliders. Power pitchers with arms like Joba should be throwing fastballs 2/3 of the time. That’s how you build up strength, thus velocity and improve command.
Offensively I think SJ made a great point about them slumping together and I’ll make a point I made a year ago about that. When you see signs that your team is starting to collectively slump you take action. The Yankees have more than enough ability and speed to play small ball some of the time and using speed to manufacture runs is a great way to fight out of a slump. They are 46-55 stealing bases for cryin’ out loud.
Pete— spend the $ 100 for priority security status at LaGuardia. As much as you fly it’ll pay for itself in lost aggravation in two trips… maybe one. It’s good at several other airports as well.
That’s because Starbucks is a private company, hence, much more efficient. The TSA is run by the government. You don’t have to worry about satisfying customers if you’re the government. But, apparently everyone thinks the government is the most efficient thing on earth right now.
I’m excited about the idea of tethering, which would be the ability to use the iPhone as an air card for your laptop.
Not with ATT…………
Betsy,
That’s because Phil didn’t fight in that appearance in Baltimore and rightly got called out on it. Since then, its made him a better, tougher pitcher.
Joba’s situation is different. Joba is fighting himself. That’s a different circumstance. The fact that he is limiting damage shows he fights on the mound.
Its not, “you did it for one, do it for another” kind of thing.
That’s not how it works because the circumstances are different.
If Joba imploded on the mound, he would get called out. Right now, his issues are different than Phil’s were in Baltimore.
ok, all pete’s iphone yip yap got my brain wandering off topic…i’ll give an extremely valuable smiley face to the first person that can identify what the following phrase is from:
“i got iphone money!! jerry jone money!!!…”
Security has nothing to do with the airlines. It’s a government run operation, and they don’t care about your flight. If each airline ran their own security, you’d get through in a breeze.
Joba obviously didn’t pitch great and the walks and shake-offs need to stop…but this is
two games in a row that have been lost by the offense. Wednesday’s game was the first we’ve lost all season when the opposing team scored 3 runs or less…then yesterday we repeated that performance. I think a lot of it has to do with the way ARod has been hitting (or not hitting) which is not providing Tex with the support he needs behind him in the lineup. If Jeter can go today I think you have to give ARod a break. Don’t take this as a “pile on ARod” post but the guy is coming off of surgery and has not had a day off since he came back…that seems funny to me since Posada seems to get one off every 3rd day or so…
I’m far from jumping and was defensive of calling Wednesday’s loss an embarrasment but losing a series against the Nats is an embarrasment…I’ll get killed for saying this but a series like this makes me miss George…you can bet he would be screaming to the media about how ridiculous this series was and how people need to shape up or there will be changes…I miss the fire from this team.
“The airlines have a pretty solid idea on a daily basis how many people will be flying and at what times. Why doesn’t TSA staff the checkpoints accordingly?”
starbucks should handle security. they could do it quicker and your coffee would be handed to you by the time you had your shoes back on.
Arod was off on Monday. He, as well as the rest of the team, didn’t play Monday.
He doesn’t need a day off. He will have Monday’s off for the next couple of weeks. He needs to keep grinding. That’s how you break out of slumps.
With the Joba shake-offs, I would ban him from doing it the rest of the season…if he’s having issues with the pitch selection in game he should have a quick chat with whoever may be catching in between innings…maybe conference in Girardi or Eiland and say, “back in that situation I would rather throw X pitch” or “this pitch isn’t working for me so let’s use it less”
It seems that everyone wants to try and figure out what is going on with Joba and assorted players, but I wonder when will the people who call the shots start to try and figure out what is going on with the people getting the players ready to play.
When the Boss was The Boss, going 0-8 against the Sox; a losing record in the division; and losing 2 out of 3 to maybe the worst team in the last 50 years, someone would be getting talked to.
I’m not saying that anyone should be fired, but they shouldn’t feel like everything is ok either.
George’s rants would definitely be entertaining but, that’s all they would be.
I know fans love to hear the bluster but, what are you going to do? What “changes” do you want?
You want to fire people because they played like garbage and lost to the Nationals? That doesn’t solve anything.
Go back and look how the franchise was run from 1982-1990. That way doesn’t work.
Its entertaining and it throws raw meat to a fan base looking to find a “villain” but, from a baseball perspective, it doesn’t work.
These guys know they played like garbage and have to pick it up.
They now have a 9 game roadtrip to do so.
Two words Pete- Fleetwood Mac
e-gawa-
thanks for that excellent fangraphs link.
i have to start looking at that site.
SJ…I’m not saying through the papers like George was known for and pretty good at…I’m just saying that if this team goes 4-5 on the road trip something is not right and needs to be addressed.
Too many people look for the secondary players to blame for bad performances.
If a pitcher is bad, its the catchers fault.
If the team plays poorly, its the manager and/or coaches fault.
The game is played by the players. Its ALL on the players.
Good teams, championship teams, have accountability.
One of the things I really like about this team is, most of the guys in that locker room get that. Unlike the last few years.
The players accountable for their performance.
This staff is one of the most prepared staffs in the game. The players don’t go into a game unprepared.
If they perform badly, they are accountable. That’s why I think they have come back to win so many games this year.
Its a trait winning teams have and it also helps to end slumps and bad streaks during a season faster than if you are playing the blame game.
SJ….also, Domincks is closed on Tuesdays and we went to Enzo’s next door (very good), but what I’ve heard from family and friends Dominicks is the place to go.
Memo to Joe Girardi: Alex “The Rally Killer” Rodriguez s/b moved out of the cleanup spot IMMEDIATELY.
/30
Don’t get me wrong…George off and firing some one because he didn’t like him is not something I’m advocating…I just liked the way he would straight up say “this isn’t acceptable” as opposed to coddling all the players and saying crap like “there are ups and downs to a season”
As far as ARod is concerned, I agree that in normal circumstances that grinding is the way to break through a slump, but it appears to me (and no one knows this but ARod) that stiffness or pain are contributing to his slump which is why I would advocate the day off. Not a benching, but a resting…
Of course the manager and coaches can’t make the plays on the field but neither can the jockey get to the finish line faster than his horse can actually run.
Nevertheless there’s a reason they have jockeys and its the same reason they have managers and coaches. A good one does make a difference.
Please don’t answer that most ball players are smarter than racehorses or I’ll know you’re not acquainted with many of either…
hardwired June 19th, 2009 at 9:12 am
Memo to Joe Girardi: Alex “The Rally Killer” Rodriguez s/b moved out of the cleanup spot IMMEDIATELY.
—————
Not gonna happen.
Girardi didn’t move Teixeira around when he was hitting .190 at the end of April, so he’s not going to move A-Rod now.
Girardi has more patience and believes in his guys a lot more than the fans do.
I’d be curious to see some attendance records for the video room…do the Yankees have some one running scouting videos prior to the game that players can attend or is it up to each individual player to go call up a scouting report? Do players even do this kind of thing or is it more common just to have an idea via word of mouth and base your approach off of that?
I’m going up to the stadium tomorrow for a tour. Can anyone tell me the best place to park on a non game day. Thanks
Hokiehill,
Just one of the reasons AR won’t get as many days off as Posada (even if we agreed that that’s what he needed): he doesn’t have a quality full-time caddy like Jorge does.
“The airlines have a pretty solid idea on a daily basis how many people will be flying and at what times.”
First time flying from Laguardia? The amount of rain from yesterday can screw things up there for days. Add in a Friday morning in the summer and you’re lucky you’re still not standing in the security line.
I don’t know…watching and listening to Girardi in the past to post-games, I get the definite impression he’s not happy with the way his team played (at least) the last two games, and he even said the entire homestand they didn’t play well. He does not have his head in the sand. He may say, “that’s baseball” to the press, but I don’t think that’s how he handles it in his office. It sounds like to me from the few things he’s said that they do talk about all the things that we’ve talked about here. They’re trying to find ways to change things up. I just don’t think he talks specifics, that’s all. And he’s definitely not the type to offer conjecture up to the media post- or pre-game.
Maybe we don’t have George’s outbursts to read in the morning papers anymore, but that does not mean that any particular situation is not being addressed in-house.
I always felt that all that George’s shenanigans did was embarrass the team and wasn’t very productive at all. As SJ44 said, it fed meat to the masses, satisfying the hunger for a scapegoat every now and then.
No, the manager and coaches can’t make the plays on the field but when the entire team can’t seem to pick up pitches from someone they’ve never seen, something is wrong. It’s happens way too consistently to be a fluke.
jennifer
June 19th, 2009 at 9:20 am
I’m going up to the stadium tomorrow for a tour. Can anyone tell me the best place to park on a non game day. Thanks
============================
That would help me out a lot, too!
Thanks.
The biggest issue with Alex is that his front hip is flying open and he’s trying to pull everything. The key to his going well (actually great) is hitting the ball with authority to RCF. He hasn’t done that very much this year.
A day off won’t fix that… a lobotomy might.
If you get there early you can park right on the street, but if not the garage right off the Degan coming from the north (exit 6) follow up and over the bend it will be right in your face off the exit (153 and River). You will come out right next to the old Stadium.
Doreen –
I agree with you about Girardi’s postgame over the last 2 games. I was very happy to hear him just say that the hitters aren’t hitting and that they are professionals and should be able to find a pitch to hit. No cap tipping from Joe G this series which I’m very glad about.
Doreen – on non-game days, parking around the stadium is plenty…just be sure to read the signs. I went on the tour last season and parked by the bleachers gate in the old stadium….no problems.
To Pete:
I know you’re a baseball fan and common sense says that starting pitching is more valuable. I agree. I also agree that Joba could very well become a front line starter in the future. I also know that the 8th inning is more valuable on a day to day basis than a team’s 5th starter.
Wang is obviously an enigma. Yes he was great 2 years ago but we do not have that Wang. That’s a problem. For now, though, he is in our rotation, Joba or no Joba. Girardi needs to move Hughes to the rotation and Joba to the pen. We can all go crazy when Joba dominates the AAA Indians lineup but it’s time to admit that he is not cut out for the rotation this year. I could care less about his ERA. I’m interested in him giving quality and length. He almost never goes more than 5 innings. That is not good. The Yankees are a mere .500 in his starts. I don’t trust Bruney (injuries) and I don’t trust Coke or Aceves in the 8th inning of a close game. Obviously Girardi doesn’t either otherwise Mo would not have been in during 8th inning of a tie game last week.
It’s time to get real here. Move Joba to the pen this year, where he as a special reliever. He is far from special as a starter. He’s good, but he isn’t even one of the top 50 pitchers in the league right now. When he is in the top 20 in the league he belongs in the rotation. Not yet.
All your colleagues are coming around a bit – Kim Jones, Sweeny, etc. Forget Francesa – why don’t you go on the radio with him and discuss – everyone else who knows the Yankees acknowledges that Joba is not the special pitcher unless he is coming out of the pen.
It’s time to put the pieces in place.
Meanwhile, How does Dave Eiland still have a job? Very strange.
Everyone who wants Joba in the rotation are fools:
You probably didn’t even know who Joba was prior to him dominating in the 8th inning. He was special as a reliever. Let him start next year. He is FAR from being a special starter this year.
And for the moron who said he gives up 3ER-4ER in every game – remember – he also only pitches 5 innings or less. Oh ya, he pitched 8 innings against that AAA Indians team without Sizemore and Martinez in the lineup. Wowww.
Joba belongs in the pen this year bc Girardi has no one he can trust in the 8th – that’s why we saw Mo last week in a tie game in the 8th inning. Disgraceful.
And SOMEONE PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME HOW DAVE EILAND STILL HAS A JOB????
I always felt that all that George’s shenanigans did was embarrass the team and wasn’t very productive at all. As SJ44 said, it fed meat to the masses, satisfying the hunger for a scapegoat every now and then.
——————
Agreed, 100%.
Hank took that role for a short time last season and I guess Hal and the rest of the FO asked him to shut the hell up because his media rants were embarrassing the team.
The players tend to roll their eyes when they hear fire and brimstone rants from the owner.
Stadium parking, all I know is coming across the GWB:
Take the Deegan south to exit 5, make a left at the end of the ramp at the light (Macombs Dam Bridge will be to your right) and there is a parking deck about 500 feet ahead on your right. Easy in/out.
Scorpio June 19th, 2009 at 9:24 am
No, the manager and coaches can’t make the plays on the field but when the entire team can’t seem to pick up pitches from someone they’ve never seen, something is wrong. It’s happens way too consistently to be a fluke.
————-
That’s an advanced scouting thing. Not a managerial thing.
It’s obvious from postgames that Girardi knows the team isn’t playing well.
Him going Ozzie Guillen with the media may make the fans feel better but would seem to be against everything he preaches to the team about having each others back.
Joba seemed to be in a nice groove and all of a sudden the wheels fell off. If I were Eiland, I would be right in Joba’s face after watching him walk the bottom part of the Nationals lineup. Inexcusable. Joba could have gotten most of the guys in that lineup out with his fastball. You need to mix it up with Dunn and Zimmerman, but that’s about it for that team.
I understand that point about Joba being stubborn, but the Yankees need to play hardball with him.
Throw strikes and keep that ball away from the middle of the plate. That is what the Nationals’ pitchers did over the course of two games and look what happened. I am so sick of watching the Yankee starters nibble around the plate and give up free passes to weak hitters.
Giuseppe Franco
June 19th, 2009 at 9:33 am
Scorpio June 19th, 2009 at 9:24 am
No, the manager and coaches can’t make the plays on the field but when the entire team can’t seem to pick up pitches from someone they’ve never seen, something is wrong. It’s happens way too consistently to be a fluke.
——————-
That’s an advanced scouting thing. Not a managerial thing.
….
Then their advanced scouting STINKS. Must have been the team that thought Igawa was good. lol.
Guy Incognito
It is open on a non gameday?
Last year they let you park in the lot next to the players lot. Just had to show them your drivers license. I guess they ran it through a system or took note of who parked. It was very easy. I guess they don’t allow you to anymore.
Why does everyone think that the only way the FO or Manager can get upset with the team or staff is through the media?
There could be a phone call, a meeting or any other way, but when you have a team that is paid as well as the Yankees are, if I’m signing the checks, I’m not happy right now.
Evan June 19th, 2009 at 9:31 am
Everyone who wants Joba in the rotation are fools:
You probably didn’t even know who Joba was prior to him dominating in the 8th inning. He was special as a reliever. Let him start next year. He is FAR from being a special starter this year.
And for the moron who said he gives up 3ER-4ER in every game – remember – he also only pitches 5 innings or less. Oh ya, he pitched 8 innings against that AAA Indians team without Sizemore and Martinez in the lineup. Wowww.
Joba belongs in the pen this year bc Girardi has no one he can trust in the 8th – that’s why we saw Mo last week in a tie game in the 8th inning. Disgraceful.
And SOMEONE PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME HOW DAVE EILAND STILL HAS A JOB????
——————
Thank you for the biggest laugh I’ve had today.
Those who followed Joba’s career before he donned the big league pinstripes in Aug of 2007 know exactly what kind of talent he is and why he should and will remain in the rotation.
Those who watched him pitch in the minors know what a force he can be. Francesa doesn’t have a clue because he had never heard of him until his big league debut.
Secondly, for whatever the reason, Joba needs 20-30 in game pitches to warm up and regain his velocity. That sure as hell doesn’t translate well to the 8th inning.
Cashman said a couple of weeks ago that he has no intention of moving Joba to the pen.
Jennifer, yes, that lot (the *ahem* RUPPERT PLAZA GARAGE) is open on non-gamedays, and for the time being, quite empty when there’s no game. It’s a public garage.
When they get that gargantuan shopping mall opened, though…look out.
Soon, they intend to install a turf field on the roof of that garage in order to provide more parklike space to the area.
Reading Joe Torre’s book it sounded like David Cone used to have a good time with Steinbrenner- he used to like to turn him on O’Neill cause O’Neill would go nuts.
if RayVT or any other Hokies are out there, Drew Weaver is 1 under through 17 and tied for the lead at the Open. Woods has been playing better today as well and is even.
“Him going Ozzie Guillen with the media may make the fans feel better but would seem to be against everything he preaches to the team about having each others back.”
Bout time he drew the line. He looked stupid defending Swisher’s baserunning in Fenway last week. Supporting them is one thing. Covering for them is something else all together. You can come down on them and support them at the same time.
thanks guy.
I really like Swisher, but the guy needs a day off. Although- very doubtful he will get one with the bump on GGBG’s head
“since joba is getting into his inner livan hernandez making an early transition in his career from a high 90’s fastball to a low 90’s fastball, i thought i’d take a look and see how he compares with livan.”
Sure you write this at 7AM when everybody including you know who is fast asleep on the West Coast.
Pete you should really consider flying American which offers priority access at security checkpoints to elite members and first class passengers. They have the quickest security lines at both NY airports with expanded screening stations.
Did the upgrade last night and can’t wait to start watching games on the improved MLB app.
Read an article last night saying how ATT is playing favorites with MLB as they will not allow customers to “slingbox” TV programming to their Iphones but At-Bat app customers can watch MLB games. For once a decision from a giant telecommunication company goes my way.
Joba’s problem seems to be that he’s immature and stubborn. Cocky swings both ways. No pun intended.
“since joba is getting into his inner livan hernandez making an early transition in his career from a high 90’s fastball to a low 90’s fastball, i thought i’d take a look and see how he compares with livan.”
Sure you write this at 7AM when everybody including you know who is fast asleep on the West Coast.
Pete you should really consider flying American which offers priority access at security checkpoints to elite members and first class passengers. They have the quickest security lines at both NY airports with expanded screening stations.
Did the upgrade last night and can’t wait to start watching games on the improved MLB app.
Read an article last night saying how ATT is playing favorites with MLB as they will not allow customers to “slingbox” TV programming to their Iphones but At-Bat app customers can watch MLB games. For once a decision from a giant telecommunication company goes my way.
Joba’s problem seems to be that he’s immature and stubborn. Cockiness swings both ways. No pun intended.
Erica, I like Swish too, but he needs to spend his off day working on running the bases
Swisher just had a day off last Saturday against the Mets.
Why is it that everyone needs a day off when they’re struggling?
They aren’t going to break out of their funk on the bench unless they are listening to George Clinton.
Hokie-
I agree completely. Or maybe spend a day following the base coaches orders. I think we could have had a chance last night if it wasn’t for him trying to stretch into a double
No, people who want Joba in the bullpen are fools.
He is walking too many people and is allowing almost 2 baserunners per inning in most of his starts.
He can’t locate his slider for strikes consistently.
He barely hits 95 on the gun anymore.
That doesn’t make him an 8th inning. In fact, if he pitches like that out of the bullpen, you are throwing away games.
Add to it, he needs about 35-40 pitches to warm up, AND another 30-35 pitches in a game to get his velocity up to snuff.
There isn’t a relief pitcher in the game who needs 60-75 pitches to get going.
All of these factors are why putting him in the bullpen ain’t happenin’.
Well, I might be in the minority here- but I am using the term “day off” as a nice way of saying “benched”
Swish needs a day off. A-Rod needs a day or two off. Gardner’s hurt…did they fly him to Florida last night with a concussion? I hope not.
With an already-thin bench Girardi is going to have to work his butt off to keep the lineup moving in these NL parks.
A lineup of Jeter ss/Damon lf/Teixeira 1b/Posada c/Cano 2b/Swisher rf/Cabrera cf/Pena 3b/pitcher spot leaves you A-Rod, Cervelli, Berroa, Matsui on the bench, and Cervelli would only PH in an emergency as he is the only other catcher.
“since joba is getting into his inner livan hernandez making an early transition in his career from a high 90’s fastball to a low 90’s fastball, i thought i’d take a look and see how he compares with livan.”
Sure you write this at 7AM when everybody including you know who is fast asleep on the West Coast.
Pete you should really consider flying American which offers priority access at security checkpoints to elite members and first class passengers. They have the quickest security lines at both NY airports with expanded screening stations.
Did the upgrade last night and can’t wait to start watching games on the improved MLB app.
Read an article last night saying how ATT is playing favorites with MLB as they will not allow customers to “slingbox” TV programming to their Iphones but At-Bat app customers can watch MLB games. For once a decision from a giant telecommunication company goes my way.
Joba’s problem seems to be that he’s immature and stubborn. That swagger of his swings both ways. It helps but can also hurt him.
Why is it that everyone needs a day off when they’re struggling?
They aren’t going to break out of their funk on the bench unless they are listening to George Clinton.
==========
I don’t think it’s so much the player needs a day off but more that the team needs a day off from the player…
The Ghost
June 19th, 2009 at 9:59 am
I don’t think it’s so much the player needs a day off but more that the team needs a day off from the player…
*****
Perfectly said
SJ44, it seems that from what you’re saying, we have a crappy starting pitcher in Joba Chamberlain. It’s not acceptable to me as a Yankee fan that he’s a crappy starting pitcher with no real light at the end of the tunnel. He had a lot of success in the eighth inning, and now inexplicably struggles as a starter.
It’s perplexing how the “Joba starter” crowd can repeatedly denigrate the “Joba bullpen” crowd and say “He’s OBVIOUSLY a starter” when they have little evidence that Joba can be a successful ML starter at the moment. (SJ, that’s not directed toward you specifically.)
GF,
That’s talk radio nonsense seeping into the fan base.
Its all we hear now.
Everytime a player is going through a bad streak, he “needs a day off”.
The ENTIRE TEAM had a day off on Monday. They will also be off the next TWO Monday’s.
You don’t solve your slumps by taking days off. You play through them because that’s what you do as a baseball player.
These guys have played long enough to play through slumps, bad streaks, bad performances, etc. This isn’t their first rodeo.
Its why they, unlike the fans, don’t panic and go postal over slumps or bad losses. They tend to look at the bigger picture.
In fact, if you take too many days off, you lose your edge.
That’s why guys like Jeter HATE taking time off.
if joba comes up with a pitching related injury in the next few months, everyone will immediately look back to his inexplicable loss of velocity as a forewarning if the injury.
it is possible the yankees have done testing to see if there is anything wrong and don’t want to give away that info for strategic reasons, however there isn’t much of a past record of the yankees doing this .
they seem to wait until an injury occurs and then throw the whole medical available at the problem. joba may have muscle weakness somewhere like wang had in his hip. has this been looked for?
if it has great. if it hasn’t shame on the yankees.
“joba may have muscle weakness somewhere like wang had in his hip.”
Wonder if the weakness in question isn’t between the ears?
That’s not what I’m saying at all Guy.
He’s 23 years old. One of the youngest starting pitchers in baseball. He’s learning on the job at the major league level to be a starting pitcher.
Most of Joba’s issues would be handled in the minor leagues if this was 15 years ago. Its not so he is learning with the big club. That’s not easy.
I think the expectations from fans of what he should be right is completely unrealistic.
Go back and look at how guys like Halladay, Sabathia, Beckett, Santana, etc were in their first FULL season as a starting pitcher in the majors because that’s where we are with Joba right now. Its a real learning process and a lot of Yankee fans have no patience for it..
Steve B, we’ll never really know that. I think that Joba’s personality and behavior lend themselves to some level of scrutiny that a guy like Jon Lester, to cite a Joba contemporary, is not subject to as much. He was a star as soon as he hit the New York stage, got injured in his second season (which was really his rookie year), and then was basically given an entirely new job in his third season (which will have been his first real “full” season).
All that would be a lot to deal with for anyone, but Joba has not had an easy life up to now, and you wonder how the tumult affects a guy like him.
I still don’t think Joba was the reason they lost last night. He kept them in the game.
No one was hitting anything
Erica,
No one was hitting AND Joba put them in a 3 run hole with bad pitching to a bad team.
It was a combination of the two.
Guy:
I probably worded that remark poorly. Mine was a reference to his apparent obstinance on the mound moreso than anything else. Not suggesting he’s less than intelligent or ill behaved.
The chronic shaking off of catchers is an issue. He’s not in a position to be calling his own game right now. I also wonder about the apparent inconcistencies in his mechanics. Probably not an uncommon thing among younger pitchers, but you wonder if he is occasionally resistent to coaching (Eiland and co. MUST be discussing/working on mechanics, no?).
SJ44-
3 runs over 6 innings is not bad pitching. Its considered a quality start. Washington may be a bad team, but the one thing on here everyone agreed on is that hitting is NOT their problem.
Joba would have had to have pitched a perfect game last night to keep them in that game the way the offense looked.
Thanks to everyone who offered parking help.
SJ44, Santana spent his first four years with the Twins mostly in the bullpen. Halladay spent some time in the pen with Toronto, more than Joba has with the Yankees. Sabathia was a starter out of the gate but he was the real deal doing so, 17-5 4.39 for a decent, but not great, Indians team.
Beckett is the most appropriate comparison with Joba. Both were basically at the same level in terms of workload at age 23. But a 23-year-old Josh Beckett tore through the 2003 playoffs and led his team to a World Series victory. I don’t see a 23-year-old Joba Chamberlain doing the same thing.
My point really is that there is no evidence for either side in the debate, but the “Joba starter” faction is so convinced that they’re right, and will brook no dissent from the other side of the table.
I think we can all agree hitting has been a major issue over the past 2 games…pitching hasn’t been great in terms of our starters going deep into games but they’ve kept us in them. Yankees should be able spot the Nats 3 runs and win the game…
That’s where the stats are misleading Erica. 3 runs in 5 innings, along with 11 baserunners in those 5 innings, is bad pitching.
Getting 3 outs in the 6th may give him a quality start according to the stat sheet. However, that start was anything but quality and Joba knows it.
SJ44-
Let me just play devil’s advocate for one second.
When Burnett pitched his no-hitter for the Marlins he walked 9 batters. Would you call that a bad pitching performance because he walked 9 and allowed 9 baserunners?
Erica
The numbers may say it was a “quality start”, but your eyes tell you it wasn’t good pitching.
“3 runs over 6 innings is not bad pitching.”
It’s not. But 10 baserunners in six innings is. He’s still not economical enough, though last night was a small improvement, and he puts too many runners on. He’s waking 5 guys per 9 innings and his sub 4 ERA belies his 1.45 WHIP.
He gets a pass from me on his results because this is oftentimes what young pitchers do. Among Joba’s contemporaries, look at Johnny Cueto, who in his 1st full season of a starter posted numbers consistent with what Joba is offering now (‘cept his ERA was more consistent with the 1.4+ WHIP). Look at what he’s doing this season with that year of MLB starting pitching under his belt. We could be seeing something along those lines next year.
I don’t give him a pass on battling with his catchers though. Posada knows what he’s doing out there and Cervelli has demonstrated he does too. Like Crash Davis told Nuke “Don’t think, it can only hurt the team”. Joba has to trust his catchers.
“since joba is getting into his inner livan hernandez making an early transition in his career from a high 90’s fastball to a low 90’s fastball, i thought i’d take a look and see how he compares with livan.”
Sure you write this at 7AM when everybody including you know who is fast asleep on the West Coast.
——————————————-
bronx jeers-
i like to float a trial ballon and test the waters.
when nick in sf gets his butt out of bed and makes an appearance, i’ll repost in his honor
There is plenty of evidence in the debate. Joba doesn’t throw 98 anymore and can’t locate his slider consistently for strikes as he did when he first arrived on the scene.
He also walks too many hitters.
That makes him a liability as a relief pitcher.
Its not about how old he is as much when discussing him with the other pitchers. Its about his experience level at the ML level as a starting pitchers. His age AND his lack of experience as a starting pitcher at the major league level leads to folks having great expectations for him right now than they should have.
To start the year, he was the #5 guy in this rotation. That’s a learning spot in a rotation. Its not Joba’s fault Wang fell off the rails and Pettitte and Burnett have not lived up to expectations. That makes Joba the de facto #2 guy in this rotation.
Truth be told, he’s not good enough to be a #2 guy in any rotation right now. At least not one of a contending team.
None of the guys I compared him to were lights out in their first full year as a starting pitcher.
His stuff is starting pitcher stuff now. Its not like it was 2 years ago and I’m guessing the shoulder injury is a big reason why that’s the case.
To that end, its imperative that he stops getting in his own way on the mound. The constant shakeoffs and over reliance on his slider is a self inflicted wound in most of his starts.
I think if he just leaves the gamecalling to the catcher, and concentrates on executing the pitches called, he will be a much better pitcher in the long run.
I am not saying Joba pitched wonderfully last night. I am saying he pitched decently enough to keep them in the game. Blaming him for the loss is incorrect in my opinion
fair enough on the pitching performance, I still wonder where all the offense from Sunday went…bomb Santana and scuffle against a bunch of no names? esp all that bad bases loaded stuff
SJ44-
I agree with you on that last part. He definitely has a lot of growing up and maturing to do. And he needs to learn that sometimes you should listen to the catcher
Erica,
AJ threw a complete game shutout that night and didn’t put his team in a 3 run deficit against the worst team in baseball. The two performances are not even remotely comparable.
Joba didn’t pitch well yesterday and was awful against a depleted Mets team in his prior start.
You can spin it any way you want but, those two performances were not good.
I had to pay for the software update for the iPod, but it was only $10 and it was worth it. Also, get the new version of MLB At Bat. It now has two out of market games that stream live to the ipod every day. It just started, so there are kinks, but it will be big, trust me.
I’m not too worried about Joba. All of his “issues” can be chalked up to him being a young inexperienced pitcher.
He shakes off the catcher too much, he’ll learn to work more in sync with Posada or whoever is catching. I hope Eiland sits him down and lays down the law.
His velocity is down right now but we saw in the Cleveland start that he can still consistently throw in the mid to upper 90′s. If his shoulder is really injured how did he consistently throw 97? It’s obviously a mechanics related problem. If he can straighten out his mechanics he will be fine.
The great thing about Joba is, even with screwed up mechanics and constant dissension between himself and the catcher, he can still throw quality starts. Last night was the same old Joba, giving up too many walks, etc but he still got through 6 innings and only 3 runs.
When Chamberlain figures things out he will be one of the best starters in baseball.
http://www.miamiherald.com/591/story/1104064.html
article on the series this weekend, AROD’s coach w/ a few quotes
I don’t know anything about pitching and mechanics, and as I read some of the “pro” posters here it sounds like mechanics are the reason for Joba’s loss in velocity. It seems like averaging 97 mph out of the gate in the 8th a couple years ago to 90-91 in the first couple innings in starts after coming off of a shoulder injury points to more than mechanics. But if it is lousy mechanics or a change in his mechanics to compensate in some way, can’t that lead to further injury?
One thing is clear, this should put to rest all the people who want him in the bullpen. *Should*. I don’t want him walking in the go ahead run in a 50-pitch 8th inning with a flat f-ball that is topping out at 89mph and a secondary pitch bouncing in the dirt. And I was glad Posada was somewhat exonerated yesterday, I can’t believe Joba’s actions on the mound are tolerated.
Evan June 19th, 2009 at 9:31 am
Everyone who wants Joba in the rotation are fools:
You probably didn’t even know who Joba was prior to him dominating in the 8th inning. He was special as a reliever. Let him start next year. He is FAR from being a special starter this year.
And for the moron who said he gives up 3ER-4ER in every game – remember – he also only pitches 5 innings or less. Oh ya, he pitched 8 innings against that AAA Indians team without Sizemore and Martinez in the lineup. Wowww.
Joba belongs in the pen this year bc Girardi has no one he can trust in the 8th – that’s why we saw Mo last week in a tie game in the 8th inning. Disgraceful.
And SOMEONE PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME HOW DAVE EILAND STILL HAS A JOB????
=========================================
lordy lordy lordy
SJ44,
Joba’s start last night was terrible in the sense that he walked too many batters and had weak velocity. It was not what we expect from a talent like Chamberlain.
HOWEVER, the results were not awful. 6 IP, 3 R is a quality start. Sure we expect more from him but if he can give us that on an off night, that’s pretty darn good.
On paper Joba had a quality start. If you followed it, it wasn’t quite as good.
That 4th inning was miserable. Walking Nieves? That is grounds for a kangaroo court infraction if they actually won the game and it wasn’t such a bummer.
His reaction in the post-game wasn’t so quality either. I’m sure he knows he could have done better but he certainly wasn’t alluding to that fact with Jones.
Doesn’t matter anyway as the offense seemed to have a Collins Av after party on their minds.
Pete,
First of all, it’s never too early to turn down free booze.
I just got the new iPhone 3Gs! OS 3.0 is certainly a nice upgrade however you talk about tethering and that’s not enabled for AT&T yet. MMS is also not yet enabled (which is absurd). The only problem with tethering is that AT&T will likely charge an arm and a leg for it, when they do enable it.
I’m assuming the Journal News covers your cell phone costs but for us common folk it’s a real pain!
I think the standards for a quality start are too low.
Bronx Jeers you’re right it wasn’t that good of a start. We expect more from a guy as talented as Joba. However, you can’t deny that even without his best stuff or command he kept us in the game.
The bottom line is, Joba didn’t lose the game for us. The offense couldn’t score a single run against the LOWLY Nationals pitching staff. Truly pathetic if you ask me.
The Yanks need to have a big series against the Marlins to get out of this funk their in. I’m not going to use the “s” word because it always backfires but I’m looking for 2 or more wins this weekend.
their should be “they’re”
“I think the standards for a quality start are too low.”
They are.
My biggest objection though, is that 8 IP and 4 ER, which is a better start than 6 and 3, doesn’t count as a quality start as well.
Patrick, did you have them ship it to you? I have to spend my lunch hour today on line at an AT&T store to pick mine up…hopefully
“Wonder if the weakness in question isn’t between the ears?”
if it is, a trip to scranton for a start or two, as sj44 and gb7 have suggested, should fix that.
the other way is to smack him in the head and give him a concussion. once you have a concussion, it often makes you nauseous to shake your head for years afterward.
this comes in handy in golf and hitting too because you tend to keep your head more still.
“this comes in handy in golf and hitting too because you tend to keep your head more still.”
Made me wonder if Damon was having flashbacks out there.
I do understand at all how anyone can even remotely put the blame of Joba last night or even Wang the night before. When you score a combined 2 runs in 2 games you are not going to win baseball games and those losses fall squarely on the offense. When those 2 runs in 2 games come against the worst pitching staff in baseball well as we all know that is just flat out embarrassing.
the other way is to smack him in the head and give him a concussion. once you have a concussion, it often makes you nauseous to shake your head for years afterward.”
——————————————————————–
Put him in CF with Coke on the mound. He’ll be seeing stars in no time.
BR I think most agree the blame goes to the offense for the last two…but that does not mean Joba pitched well…he pitched well enough to keep us in the game and we SHOULD have won and would have if the offense showed up…
And I really do not understand what people expected from Joba this year. This is his first full season starting. It is fact that the vast majority of young pitchers will struggle in not just their first year, but their first 2-3 years. For those of you who are surprised by the results thus far this season really had much too high expectations for him going into the season. Wait until next year while Joba AND Hughes are in the starting rotation going through growing pains as starters at the big league level. You people are going to be jumping off cliffs.
“I do understand at all how anyone can even remotely put the blame of Joba last night or even Wang the night before. When you score a combined 2 runs in 2 games you are not going to win baseball games and those losses fall squarely on the offense.”
That’s true, but the Yanks should snap out of it and get on a roll again. Yes, it was embarrassing just as it was when they lost a series to the pirates last year, or that west coast trip a couple years ago.
The bigger story is Joba though. The offense will come around, but Joba struggled with getting on the same page with his battery mate again, with a different catcher, and struggled, again, with throwing strikes.
Part of what made Joba a special prospect was his ability to throw hard. Since his shoulder injury, he has had a significant dip in velocity, and really hasn’t resembled the pitcher he was at one point. To me, that’s way more disturbing and tangible than theories about sloppy mechanics or strained relationships with the guy behind the plate.
Is it possible the guy suffered some kind of injury or “close call” that has forced him to re-learn how to pitch with diminished velocity? If so, perhaps it’s time to dial back the expectations. He’s not going to dominate if he’s permanently lost a step. Accepting that fact, if true, might make performances like last night’s more palatable and understandable. He’s got a long way to go if he’s literally learning how to be a different kind of pitcher.
“I do understand at all how anyone can even remotely put the blame of Joba last night”
Don’t think anyone is. He was not all that good, but he was good enough to win. The loss was on the bats. They didn’t show up.
“. The only problem with tethering is that AT&T will likely charge an arm and a leg for it, when they do enable it.”
I read that it’s going to be 55$ although they said that it wasn’t clear whether that was on top of the data plan or included the 30$ charge.
You really can not win with Yankee fans or even the Yankee front office. Everyone complained for years that the Yankees had no good young prospects. And now that the farm system is finally starting to come together people expect Joba to be Cy Young in his first full year. If you people do not want to have to give 82 million to a guy just because he is good against the Red Sox then you have to deal with the growing pains. If Wang is not the worst pitcher in baseball history and Andy is decent every 5th day Joba is an afterthought in this rotation
When a team is struggling offensively, having your starting pitcher put you in a 3 run hole early doesn’t help.
The two go hand in hand.
Anybody who watched that game yesterday can’t possibly sell Joba pitched well. Geez, he walked in a run with a guy like Wil Nieves at the plate. He was ahead 1-2 and he shook off Cervelli constantly (even stepping off once) for the next 3 pitches to throw bad slider after bad slider.
Finally, at 3-2 he threw an uncommitted fastball (kind of his “concession” to Cervelli for shaking him off so much) and it missed by a bunch to walk in the run. That’s just terrible pitching.
Its a tribute to his talent he can hold things down to only 3 runs in 6 innings. Then again, its the Washington Nationals.
Some could argue he gave up 2 runs too many to such a bad team.
Either way, it just tells me that its more imperative for Wang, Pettitte and Burnett to start stringing together more quality outings.
Its pretty tough, and unfair, to expect Joba Chamberlain at this point in his career to be the second best starting pitcher on this staff. He still has too much to learn to place that burden on him, IMO.
Damon said that was how he wound up with his “caveman” look. After he got his concussion in 2003, it hurt him too much to shave and get hair cuts in the offseason so he just went with it
“Damon said that was how he wound up with his “caveman” look. After he got his concussion in 2003″
That was one of the nastier collisions I’ve seen. But I think Damon went with the look because he’s a big fan of attention.
Its like the whole team is trying to get in touch with their inner Met lately. So disheartening.
SJ, even if Joba put this team in a 6 run hole, looking at this lineup and that pitching staff the Yankees should have won.
“For those of you who are surprised by the results thus far this season really had much too high expectations for him going into the season.”
I’m personally not suprised by it and will take Joba giving up 3 runs all season. But the walks and shaking off Posada are simply just things to improve on and should be worked on prior to Joba’s next start. I agree people have high expectations for Joba and maybe to a ridiculous level at times, but it is not too much to look for improvement week to week and esp over the season and try to identify the ways improvement can be made. While the extent to which people criticize particular players and team performance can get out of hand at times, so can the reaction to topics of conversation on a discussion board
What’s remarkable about Joba and what should excite Yankee fans about his promise is that even with the irregular rhythm, the disjointed mechanics, the diminished velocity, the labored innings, the erratic control, and the obstinate and imprudent pitch selection, the guy is still holding the opposition to 3 runs or less and pitching into and out of trouble.
Joba’s potential as a starter, as long as he remains healthy– and someone has to correct his mechanic to ensure– is infinite. This guy has the potential to be as good, if not better than Beckett.
The Yankees haven’t developed a pitching talent with this much promise since Guidry.
My plan for Joba remains the same… no shaking off the catcher for at least two starts, period. I’d also make sure the catcher understands the need for Joba to throw a much higher percentage of fastballs, especially his two seamer to get some early in the count outs.
My plan for the offense is to attack, attack and attack. Hit and run, steal bases, try to take extra bases. Stop twiddling your thumbs while waiting for a three run HR.
Minors stuff:
“Montero, the top catching prospect in the Yankees’ farm system, was hit with a foul tip in the sixth inning and had to be removed from the game. He will be re-evaluated today … Team sources have confirmed that right-hander Christian Garcia (2-0, 0.71 ERA) is at the Yankees’ minor-league facility in Tampa, but it is not known whether Garcia has been cleared to resume baseball activities after having his injured right elbow examined by Dr. James Andrews Monday in Birmingham, Ala”
http://www.nj.com/sports/times.....thispage=2
The only thing that does really concern me is that if something is wrong with Joba, no one on this Yankee staff will probably notice until Joba starts pitching terribly like Wang did or his arm is about to fall off.
How it took the Yankees so long to put Wang on the DL is beyond me. The guys mechanics were clearly messed up and his velocity was way down. The idiots on Baseball Tonight even saw it. All they had to do was compare two pictures of Wang, one from this year and one from early last year and even freaking John Kruk noticed it. Eiland or anyone else did not see this in spring training or even his first start?
And Arod… You invest 300 million in a guy and he was clearly struggling at the end of last year and you wait until we are midway through spring training to check it out…
Joba is walking too many batters and falling behind which quickly runs up his pitch count. He needs to get ahead of the hitters like the Washington pitchers did.
Hokiehill
Thanks! I didn’t know he was a Hokie!
Keep this in mind too, when Hughes and IPK struggled in their first full season as starters, the oppposition bludgeoned them.
A bad inning went from bad to worse as they lost their composure, command, and confidence.
Even when Joba is at his worse he keeps the Yankees in the game. He hasn’t yielded MORE THAN 5 EARNED RUNS IN A SINGLE START THIS YEAR. FIVE!!!
Do his critics realize how impressive a statistic that is?
Beckett, this year alone, has surrendered EIGHT, SEVEN and SIX Earned Runs in three different games.
Let’s not even mention MR. A.J.
You know with base coaches now required to wear helmets I wonder if anybody in authority has ever toyed with the idea of helmets for outfielders. Maybe not required equipment but as an option
Obviously a baseball helmet wouldn’t be right but a hockey like helmet would work. I’m sure there are some outfielders who wish they had a helmet after the fact. Maybe years from now we’ll see it. In light of some of the serious concussions we’ve seen over the years it would make sense. Certainly outfielders are in more danger than base coaches. That poor coach didn’t even get hit in the head.
Of course Abreu would come out to the field looking like Marty Brodeur.
Anybody remember Butch Goring’s helmet? What was up with that?
Hey SJ44, any of your sources tell you how the Yankees’ pitching staff regard Dave Eiland?
I’m beginning to have my doubts about Eiland. If so many Yankees are having difficulty with their mechanics, why isn’t Eiland able to remedy them? I don’t blame him, of course, for the symptom, but I wonder whether he’s equipped to deliver the remedy.
Where is Mel Stottlemeyer when we need him? Or have I overrated him and the role of pitching coaches in general?
“What’s remarkable about Joba and what should excite Yankee fans about his promise is that even with the irregular rhythm, the disjointed mechanics, the diminished velocity, the labored innings, the erratic control, and the obstinate and imprudent pitch selection, the guy is still holding the opposition to 3 runs or less and pitching into and out of trouble.”
True, but that seems more like luck than some sort of Houdini-like guile he might possess. Walking in a run in two consecutive starts is mind-boggling. If Joba thinks he is doing his job with the way he is currently pitching (forget the runs, I mean the long innings and the walks and shaking off every other pitch and not having confidence in any pitch except that one that is thrown for a ball) then I hope he gets humbled with a meltdown inning if it would finally convince him that his approach is wrong.
Plus, it’s hard for his opponents to have a big inning when he’s not throwing anything over the plate.
“Of course Abreu would come out to the field looking like Marty Brodeur.”
Abreu wouldn’t need a helmet. In fact, he could probably play the outfield with some sort of soft-skull syndrome…
Bronx: I remember Goring’s helmet. Made of cardboard wasn’t it? LOL! Barely fit his head. Looked like he stole it from some 8 year old street hockey player.
Magnus, have you considered the alternative to walking in a run? It’s precisely because Joba doesn’t get rattled with the bases loaded as many a rookie would and doesn’t yield by throwing pitches down the heart of the plate, that he doesn’t succumb to the big inning.
I’ll take a walked in run in that situation every time.
There is a difference between Quality Pitching and a Quality Start.
Joba had a quality start, but his pitching sucked. He toughed it out on his own stubbornness. My former college coach would say that pitcher has a million dollar arm and a 10 cent brain. (BTW, I am not referring to Joba as stupid, he is just stubborn!)
It was all I could do to keep from posting even more against the Posada rhetoric the other day. Guys like Al Leiter flamed it as well with statements like a pitcher should choose his own pitches because he would be committed to it crap. Al’s best year was when his manager chewed his butt out for shaking on his cathcer Charles Johnson while with the Marlins. Al was stubborn too. He could have been much better than he was if he had been reigned in earlier.
I like Joba! I think he is a SP and will be a good one. It is ashame he isn’t receiving more mature coaching! Same with AJ!
“Magnus, have you considered the alternative to walking in a run? It’s precisely because Joba doesn’t get rattled with the bases loaded as many a rookie would and doesn’t yield by throwing pitches down the heart of the plate, that he doesn’t succumb to the big inning.”
My sarcaso-meter is jammed. Sarcasm?
Actually AJ has only allowed more than 5 ER once and exactly 5 ER twice. He’s also gone more than six innings seven times to Joba’s two. I’d say their ocntributions are roughly equal. Joba has the superior ERA, but AJ has pitched 11 1/3 more innings in the same number of starts (13) and that’s important.
Someone mentioned the quality start stat and I agree it should be changed. Seven innings, three earned runs or less would be my standard. Also, if you give up more runs after the 7th it shouldn’t negate the fact thay you DID author a quality start. That the “stat” punishes guys who go beyond six innings is absurd.
another article about arod ‘coming home’…media in south florida has had several good articles on it..link below
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sp.....1840.story
“I remember Goring’s helmet. Made of cardboard wasn’t it? LOL! Barely fit his head. Looked like he stole it from some 8 year old street hockey player.”
Funny you should say that, that is pretty close to the truth. From NYislanderlegends: ‘Goring, who used the same two uniquely homemade leather helmets since the age of 11, scored 375 goals’
“Magnus, have you considered the alternative to walking in a run?”
Yes, I have. And like I said I think his “success” looks more like luck.
And I think it’s a bad habit to get into, i.e. walking the bases loaded and thinking you can escape. It’s not gonna happen all the time. He’s not freaking Tom Glavine, he’s got good enough stuff to let go of the nibbling. That is, if you call throwing balls a foot and a half off the plate and in the dirt “nibbling”.
Like I said, if it takes a meltdown inning to convince him his approach is flawed, then I take that instead of the continuing results that encourage him to not throw the ball near the plate…
“Abreu wouldn’t need a helmet. In fact, he could probably play the outfield with some sort of soft-skull syndrome…”
True. Abreu could could play in nothing but a loin-cloth and would never get a scratch.
The plexiglass panels in the outfield were probably added to the list of things about the stadium to be reviewed in the off season after last night.
Mark in Tampa: Thanks for the Goring info. Interesting. Must’ve brought him good luck.
“Patrick, did you have them ship it to you? I have to spend my lunch hour today on line at an AT&T store to pick mine up…hopefully
”
I preordered one on Monday and picked it up at the Apple store today. Luckily I already had today off from work so I went early and got it.
Uh, no, Steve B. I wasn’t being sarcastic. No, of course, I don’t condone walking in runs or walks, in general.
But between walking in a single run or succumbing to a twoo-run single or a bases clearing double, I’ll take the former.
The notion that meltdowns can be instructive is like the old Puritan saw that suffering is purifying. Sure, if doesn’t kill you first.
Sure a young pitch can learn from failure. On the other hand, as Hughes and IPK demonstrated last year, failure also can destroy a young kid’s confidence, spiral, and become a self-fulfilling expectation.
(Then again, I don’t advocate more jail time for my recidivist clients either. Jail, in most cases, doesn’t rehabilitate; it breeds a more sinister criminal. )
“Anybody who watched that game yesterday can’t possibly sell Joba pitched well.”
Nobody is saying he pitched well. I’m saying the results were acceptable. 6 IP 3 R should be nothing vs Washington’s pitching staff. Also don’t knock their offense, they can hit pretty well.
OBVIOUSLY Joba didn’t pitch well but he gave us a quality start which should be good enough vs a team like the Nats.
The story today isn’t how poorly Joba pitched, he wasn’t that terrible. The story is how woeful the offense looked vs a team like the Nats.
Now it’s over and done with, I’m tired of dwelling on a crappy series.
What is frustrating is knowing the ceiling for some players or at least the perceived ceiling and seeing it missed if not entirely. Joba pitches poorly and has good results. Just think if he pitches well and throws pitches the hitters aren’t waiting on to hit/walk. If this were Rasner or Ponson or even Pettite, we’d be saying they held them to 3 runs. So is it fair to criticize Joba? IMO it is because we recognize the difference.
ARod lined a shot to left and as fate would have it it was caught and he goes 0-fer! If it was a little one side or the other and it is a hit and perhaps it would lead to breaking out of his slump. As Yogi said “Baseball is 90% mental — the other half is physical.” Slumps take 90% of ones ability away. (Mental!) Once the mental is corrected, then it is 50% physical and probably 50% opportunity/luck/concentration.
The Yanks miss Jeter, Posada, Melky and even the old ARod. This is just a glimpse of what Yankee life will be like if Pena, Cervelli, Gardner & ___ that so many of you have clammored about in recent days are playing routinely while the others are missing.
Swish is struggling right now and he is in the stage of trying to make it happen instead of letting it come to him and going with the pitches. Swinging at ball four on a 3-1 count is not his style. He is overly anxious and trying too hard. Lighten up on him and ARod too.
Probably the best thing for the Yanks right now is a road trip. Less pressure. BTW, they are only 3 out and no Toronto is not going away. They have perhaps the best Manager in baseball IMO and they have talent.
Patrick
June 19th, 2009 at 11:40 am
“Anybody who watched that game yesterday can’t possibly sell Joba pitched well.”
Nobody is saying he pitched well. I’m saying the results were acceptable. 6 IP 3 R should be nothing vs Washington’s pitching staff. Also don’t knock their offense, they can hit pretty well.
OBVIOUSLY Joba didn’t pitch well but he gave us a quality start which should be good enough vs a team like the Nats.
The story today isn’t how poorly Joba pitched, he wasn’t that terrible. The story is how woeful the offense looked vs a team like the Nats.
Now it’s over and done with, I’m tired of dwelling on a crappy series.
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Exactly!!!
Funny, when Dice-BB was walking the bases loaded and escaping last year everyone here said he’d regress to the mean, but when Joba does it, it’s because he’s “special.” :rolleyes: To me, a special young pitcher would be someone with preternatural command and wise-beyond his years maturity regardless of the results, but obviously ymmv. Joba (or any young pitcher, really) would be fortunate to win half as many games as Andy Pettitte has in his career.
pat
June 19th, 2009 at 11:29 am
The plexiglass panels in the outfield were probably added to the list of things about the stadium to be reviewed in the off season after last night.
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I’ll say. That was one scary scene. That kid could have been paralyzed. Seeing the replay was frightening. When his neck snapped back, I felt my heart drop into my stomach. He is lucky it wasn’t more serious. I’m tired of watching collisions like this. Where was it that Damon crashed into the left field wall? It was like a gate or something – hard edged. And that was nothing compared to what happened last night.
Gardner is tiny – and the edge of that glass didn’t even equal his height – thus the whiplash-like effect upon violent contact.
Seems to me the Players Union is a sluggish governing body that could do a better job of looking out for its members.
I’m also fed up with these rain-soaked games they play come hell or high water.
Mostly high water. MLB insists on playing these games in downpours because they want the $$ – and players spend avoidable time on the DL (Posada, Molina, Youkilis) because they’re forced to play in awful conditions.
This isn’t the NFL. The combination of the stop and start activity of baseball and wet surfaces is a recipe for injuries.
In my day, you never played in pouring rain.
new post
“They have perhaps the best Manager in baseball IMO and they have talent.”- Rayvt
Haha, seriously? You’re going to tell me, with a straight face, Girardi is the best manager in baseball? Give me a break.