Today in The Journal News
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Jun 23, 2009 
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Sorry if this appears twice, but my original post got stuck in moderation (I forgot the multiple link problem), so I’m reposting most of it in two separate posts, since I assume no one is awake to get the original out of moderation.
Some interesting similarities between Pete and Kepner’s articles on ARod today:
Here’s Pete in the article linked in the post: “Starting this week, Rodriguez will be held out once a week whether he likes the idea or not. Team officials lectured him on Friday about the need to be honest about his condition and readiness to play.”
Here’s Kepner: “Rodriguez insisted he was ready to play each of the first 38 games after coming off the disabled list, until his performance finally told a different story. As with many players, Rodriguez showed the Yankees that he cannot be trusted to tell the truth about his health.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06.....ref=sports
(repost part 2)
Neither Kepner nor Pete cites a single source, not even an anonymous one, for either passage I quoted. My question is when and how did these become accepted facts?
By contrast, here was Pete the other day in a post entitled “Why Didn’t The Yankees Stick with the Plan”:
“According to Rodriguez, the plan put in place by Philippon and Lindsay was for him to take 5-8 games off during his first 45 games back with the team. Not 45 days, 45 games.
But over the first 38 games he was back, A-Rod sat out zero games. . . .
A-Rod said he fought to stay in games, which is what he supposed to do. Knowing him, I’m sure that’s exactly what he did. But why didn’t the Yankees stick with the plan their doctors drew up? All of a sudden a third baseman with a high school education knew better than the two best doctors in their respective fields? Of course Alex said he wanted to play. What else would he say?
Joe Girardi admitted yesterday that he should have given Alex more days off than he did.”
http://yankees.lhblogs.com/200.....-the-plan/
Interesting the change from the blog post saying that of course ARod wanted to play, but the Yankees should have stuck with the doctors’ plan, to today’s take stating that ARod was lectured on honesty. In other words, it’s his fault for not telling the Yankees he needed a day off.
I’d be interested to know if someone on the Yankees is pushing this different spin (since both Kepner and Pete wrote about ARod’s honesty), to deflect blame from their own decision-making, or if this is just a default back to the “It’s all ARod’s fault” norm in the NY media.
No player wants to miss a game or come out early. Not A-Rod, not Jeter, and not Sabathia on Sunday.
That’s what makes these competitors and professional athletes who they are.
It’s up to the medical staff, trainers, and manager to make that decision for them.
But to be honest, the Yankees are terrible in dealing with injuries – whether it’s rehabbing or just assessing the severity of whatever is going on.
I don’t really trust that the Yanks know what’s best for their players at times because they have a knack for making the wrong decision and making things worse.
Guys like A-Rod, Wang, Bruney, Jeter last season, and many others come to mind.
I don’t know what you’re trying to get at Clare. But somehow I think you’re questioning Pete.
Here’s my take. The Yankees knew the doctor’s orders. Girardi ignored them for whatever reason. It’s not like the Yankees were deriving any benefit, in fact it was hurting more than anything. And other older players had their days of rest.
It came to a head, and it was dealt with swiftly and properly.
Ultimately it’s Girardi’s decision on who to put in the lineup. So blame falls on him.
If Alex is being a good soldier by deflecting blame, then good for him. That’s what being a good teammate is all about. And after all, he owes Girardi, Cashman, & the Yankees a great deal for standing by him when the other shoe dropped in the spring.
As long as Alex gets his prescribed day of rest per week, this should be a non-story. But we all know this isn’t the last we’ll hear about the topic. Too bad. But I guess it’s better than talking about the Yankees’ losing ways.
m,
Sorry if I was unclear. But yes, I’m questioning why 2 writers used the off-day to note the team’s displeasure with ARod for not being honest about needing a day off, when, as Pete himself noted a couple of days ago, it’s practically a sin for an athlete to say anything other than, “Put me in, coach.”
The way those 2 quotes I posted are written, it’s hard to tell if that’s a theme being pushed by the Yankees, or simply the conventional wisdom of the beat writers. I know Heyman said that ARod was chastized by the Yankee brass, but he made it clear where that was coming from (an anonymouse Yankee official). I just wanted to know if those 2 quotes were based on Heyman’s reporting, or something new.
Klapish’s take today is Girardi is pushing too hard- A-Rod, CC and Mo for example; because he needs to win now in order to keep his job.
The pushing has resulted in a hip too sore to swing a bat, bicep tendinitis and a sense of “tight” that is seen by the team by using players out of role.
http://www.northjersey.com/spo.....rardi.html
Oh, Lord. I won’t even click on that link.
Yes, Joe went too far with Alex because he ignored a rehab schedule recommended by the doctor.
What does Klapisch say about CC saying he’s dealt with bicep tendinitis before? Joe took CC out against the pitcher’s own wishes.
As for Mo? There’s no problem. Unless the doctors said no 3+ out appearances for him.
In theory Klapisch’s take sounds good. But I don’t think Girardi would endanger his players like that. It’s a very delicate tango between manager and player, with the player not always being completely honest.
I’m wondering if the team has started to discuss whether they can find a way out of the A-Rod contract. I assume it would never happen (look at the Giambi situation for comparison), but you gotta wonder given his direct admission of PED.
As for Girardi, I don’t like swapping managers mid-season, especially when the team hasn’t really given him much time to succeed. If I were running the team, I would schedule some one-on-one meetings with my key players, like Jeter and Mo and get their insights into whether Girardi is being effective in the clubhouse.
I would actually prefer to see Cashman go before Girardi. You look at the success that Boston is having with free agent decisions and their draft picks and you have to think that the Yanks could do at least as well if they had the right GM.
Meh, I don’t believe much of what Klapisch has to say these days.
He may be respected by his colleagues – but his respect among readers is dwindling by the day.
He always seems to have a bug up his ass these days and he always like that in the past.
I don’t even bother reading Klapisch anymore.
Oops. I meant “he wasn’t always like that in the past.”
Right now Alex is just a shadow of the shadow of his former self.
Mark Feinsand reported that CC did have treatment yesterday. So, did he or didn’t he? Inquiring minds want to know.
It’s kind of heartening to know that the Red Sox are going through a similar situation with Mike Lowell, vis-a-vis rest for a player after hip surgery, the player not wanting to rest, the manager saying he should have rested him anyway, and a resultant two-day respite. As I recall, Lowell started the season pretty well. I guess even athlete’s bodies can handle so much. And I guess most teams will err on the side of “the player knows his body best.”
I know it’s a fine line to walk – you need your best players to play to win. A player doesn’t want to be seen as a wimp or letting their teammates down. But in the long run, a day of rest is more beneficial to the team. Perhaps it’s difficult for players to be 100% honest because they are used to playing through discomfort most of the time and it’s difficult to draw a line between that and being ineffective because your body just can’t do it for a period of time.
In this case, with Alex, I think the Yankees should have been proactive and planned his rests regardless of what the schedule was or even whether they were winning or losing. They had Alex 5 or 6 days a week, which is certainly better than not having him at all.
But you can see the dilemma for a player: if he is too cautious, he will open himself up to the derision that Carl Pavano suffered for not playing through his injuries.
I suppose the larger question here is, has Alex compromised his body by using PEDs? Will he fully recover? Will he recover enough to be the force in the lineup the Yankees contracted for? And, I hate to say this, is there a lingering question now that he was, indeed, on PEDs for a more extended period of time, and we really don’t know what to expect going forward? I think this is a legitimate question, not an indictment or accusation.
For me, I hope he can regain the majority of the form he had when he first joined the Yankees. I think the lowered numbers have to do with the fact that his hip started to bother him late last season. I think that Alex should have had the hip examined immediately after the season ended. If the team knew his hip was problematic, they should have insisted on a thorough examination. And the Yankees have to adopt a new policy – never rely on a player’s assessment of his body’s condition. Both sides are guilty of negligence here.
Can we get Arod through the season first before we assume PED has hurt his body?
If Cashman goes, you can bet the new guy would also cashier Girardi.
I am not a fan of Cashman whose methods match his name. His assemblage of players is not a team. while Baltimore and Tampa can look forward to being top flight competition for years to come the Yankees are already in decline.
Our Outfield has not a single player capable of matching Jason Bay’s production.
The Left side of the infield has a guy who will once again undergo hip surgery in the off season and a thirty five year old shortstop. We should let the grass grow on that side of the infield so the guys can get to balls using their walkers.
The crown Jewels of the organization; Posada, Rivera, Jeter and Pettite, are stars from the previous Yankee century.
They were brought along by the prior GM. We have been living off the success of Watson and Michael. Each year we face diminished returns.
I remember 1966. I, for one, do not look forward to a resurgent Baltimore and a half empty stadium.
This is a typical attempt to smear… no one on earth is less forthcoming about his injuries than Derek Jeter. If it is a throroughly admirable quality in one player it should be the same with any others.
Remember when Giambi asked out of World Series Game Five in 2003 because he truthfully said his knee was too stiff to play 1B defensively? Was he praised for his honesty? No he was excoriated for “asking out”.
How is it that one guy’s “toughing it out” is another guy’s “Lying about his injuries”? Why is it that one man’s “determination play” is another man’s “asking out of the biggest game of his career”?
“to today’s take stating that ARod was lectured on honesty. In other words, it’s his fault for not telling the Yankees he needed a day off.”
Rodriguez isn’t exactly the guy you’ll see next to INTEGRITY in the dictionary, but this is entirely on the Yankees, IMO. He says he wants to play, which is what you want out of all your players. The organization has to know better, and if they don’t, how about watching the guy obviously struggling and using the eyeball test to determine he needs the occasional day off?
I remember Bruney getting killed earlier in the year (I was one of the shooters) for maybe not being up front about his arm. But now I’m beginning to believe this stuff is really on the organization and their inability or refusal to recognize inuries. They were late to the party on Rodriguez’s hip. They’ve brutally mismanaged Wang’s return from injury. They didn’t handle the Posada thing well last season. They don’t seem to want to be as thorough as possible on Sabathia’s arm. I don’t get it.
Jason Bay is playing out of his element this season. When he gets his big contract, let’s see what his production is then when he turns 32 next year.
By the way, Cashman isn’t going anywhere this year. I can’t say the same thing about Girardi and Eiland.
“Jason Bay is playing out of his element this season. When he gets his big contract, let’s see what his production is then when he turns 32 next year”
Guy’s been a 30 homer, 100 RBI guy his entire career playing in a bad lineup and a marginal hitter’s park. Now he’s in a superior lineup with half of his games in a park quite kind to hitters. He’s not exactly a fluke.
86w183
For what it’s worth, I don’t think it’s an admirable quality in Jeter, either, especially now that he is at an age where wear and tear start taking its toll — he’s not 25 anymore, or even 30. Though, he is in good shape, certainly better than the average 35-year-old.
You bring up some good points.
I guess winning a WS ring or two or three (or four) buys you an awful lot of goodwill, doesn’t it?
There’s got to be a better balance. Frankly, I don’t know what the right thing to do is. One would think, and apparently most managers do, that a player is more in touch with what his body can tolerate in terms of pain and/or discomfort and so they trust the player’s judgment. At what point, after how many bad at-bats or missed plays, do you over-rule the player?
I think it’s counterproductive to play the blame game. With ARod, though, in this particular case, I think the missive was clear: give the guy rest regardless of what he says – it was prescribed by his doctor – period.
“Guy’s been a 30 homer, 100 RBI guy his entire career playing in a bad lineup and a marginal hitter’s park. Now he’s in a superior lineup with half of his games in a park quite kind to hitters. He’s not exactly a fluke.”
He’s having a career year and I don’t think he’ll match these numbers again.
“Rodriguez insisted he was ready to play each of the first 38 games after coming off the disabled list, until his performance finally told a different story”
In 21 games between his 5 for 5 game in Texas and his 2 days off, Rodriguez has hit .176 and slugged .295. Yankees needed 21 games of that to determine his performance “told a different story”? Like I said earlier, you want Rodriguez saying “I’m ready to go” everyday. But he doesn’t run the team. Yankees are showing no fortitude allowing him to call the shots for them and then blaming him when it doesn’t go right.
I cover college sports full time and even at this level you’ll see players returned to action ahead of schedule because “he said he was ready”. My response to that is the same as with pro athletes — That’s why they have grownups. You need people to look out for competitive athletes who are too proud, determined and/or stupid to sit out when their bodies tell them to.
Another thing to consider is the difference between pain and injury. Bruney has to know the difference betwee a sore muscle and something structural — there isn’t a whole lot of muscle in the elbow so that’s pretty clear.
Players who feel they can play will always say they can, but after what Alex did to try and play this year there should have been a set schedule of “Alex Rules”…. he must DH once a week and sit out entirely at least once every ten days… something like that.
I hate that we have to deal with this phony for another eight years. Hal and Hank need to sell this team and get people in there who give a damn about baseball, and not horse racing, or yachting, or whatever it is those two spoiled richies do instead of running their team.
Cash is King
June 23rd, 2009 at 7:44 am
Jason Bay is playing out of his element this season. When he gets his big contract, let’s see what his production is then when he turns 32 next year.
He does have better away, than home numbers, so he’s not a product of Fenway. He does seem to have the Yankees number though.
You are aging him too quickly. Bay turns 31 in late September.
He’s killed the Yankees this year (13-26, .446, 3, 12) in just eight games, but in the previous seasons he was pretty pedestrian against the Yanks (13-51, .255, 1, 9) in 14 games.
Bay is just a good hitter, period. He might be the best hitter on the Yanks if he was on the team. Nady, in comparison, is pedestrian. I can’t see why people are clamoring for his return. He added nothing last year, why is this season going to be any different.
And he’s going to hit into a bunch of gigantic, rally-killing DP’s, as well.
Cashman is past effectiveness as a GM.
Why oh why,couldn’t the
RS,get that deal done with Arod.It’s a fact,every team he leaves,does better when he’s gone.
I can’t imagine waiting until 2018,to win another WS.
AROD NEGOTIATED his contract IN BAD FAITH based of a manufactured record,from PED’S.
His stats don’t match his play.
I want the Yankees to get younger. Enough of 35 and over crowd playing with these kids.
If you must keep them in stripes
let them coach or work in front office.
Yankees need to get younger!
“You are aging him too quickly. Bay turns 31 in late September.”
How am I aging him too quickly when I correctly stated he turns 32 next year?
I believe the Yankees need to make some changes. first trade Matsui,Cabrera,Berroa.Put Gardner in Center and change the batting order to:
Jeter,Cano,Tex,A-Rod,Damon,Nady(rf),Swisher (DH),Posada/Cervelli(c),Gardner.
Then bring up Shelly Duncan and Cody Ransom to add bench strength with Ramiro Pena and “Cisco” Cervelli.
Then get rid of Brett Tomko and bring up Mark Melancon.
“vey June 23rd, 2009 at 10:25 am
Cashman is past effectiveness as a GM.
Why oh why,couldn’t the
RS,get that deal done with Arod.It’s a fact,every team he leaves,does better when he’s gone.
I can’t imagine waiting until 2018,to win another WS.
AROD NEGOTIATED his contract IN BAD FAITH based of a manufactured record,from PED’S.
His stats don’t match his play.”
____________________________
We should ship him off now, just eat the contract so we can get the same number of World Series rings that Seattle and Texas have won since he left.
A-Rod’s “blonde of the week” hasn’t helped his numbers.
Also, if this was his “spring training” — wouldn’t he be stronger now than he got back? His lack of performance is entirely because he’s in a rut.
Yawn… Is it possible to write an article about A-Rod WITHOUT mentioning his salary? Please, provide a link to a video of him fielding with his wallet, or batting with his bank account statement, else, get a real job.