Breaking down the slump
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Jun 24, 2009 
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The Yankees were riding high as they started a series in Boston on June 9. They were in first place alone, 11 games over .500 and had won 19 of their previous 25 games.
They are 4-9 since and now tied for second place with Toronto. Tampa Bay is closing fast.
What happened? Let’s look for reasons as to what caused this:
Pitching: Nope, not here. The Yankees have a 3.89 ERA in those 13 games and the bullpen has actually pitched better than it has all season.
Schedule: Nope, not here. Outside of the Red Sox, the Yankees faced the Mets, Nationals, Marlins and Braves. This was supposed to be an “easy ” stretch.
Offense: What else could it be? The Yankees are hitting .240 with a .326 on-base percentage and a .394 slugging percentage in those 13 games and averaging 4.0 runs. In their previous 57 games, they were averaging 5.7 runs and hitting .277/.356/.482 as a team.
Clutch hitting: The Yankees were hitting .266 with runners in scoring position over the first 57 games. Not great, but it was working. They are at .238 since. If you discount that 15-0 game against the Mets, it’s .194. They’ve fallen off the cliff of clutch.
Power hitting: The Yankees have 13 home runs in the last 13 games including one in the last five. They had been averaging 1.6 home runs per game previously. I think there is something to the idea that they had grown content with the idea of waiting for somebody to hit a home run. Then when it doesn’t happen, nobody knows what to do. Has the new Stadium screwed them up?
Let’s look at the players individually. Here are games played, batting, RBI and OPS for the key Yankees. We’ll go in descending order of OPS
Matsui: 12 games, 8 of 28, 5 RBI, .980
Gardner: 12 games, 8 of 20, 2 RBI, .955
Cano: 13 games, 17 of 52, 8 RBI, .903
Teixeira: 13 games, 13 of 49, 5 RBI, .838
Jeter: 12 games, 12 of 47, 4 RBI, .716
Cabrera: 12 games, 8 of 20, 2 RBI, .694
Damon: 13 games, 8 of 43, 6 RBI, .643
Posada: 12 games, 7 of 26, 2 RBI, .598
Swisher: 12 games, 7 of 42, 1 RBI, .548
Rodriguez: 12 games, 4 of 39, 5 RBI, .486
Matsui and Gardner, who have played the least, have played the best. That’s not good. But with interleague play, Matsui has little use. Swisher’s inconsistent tendencies are hurting them. He has been either very good or very bad this season and he’s in one of his very bad periods. Posada has not given them the lift hoped for when he came off the DL. Melky also has reverted to his usual Melkyness.
And of course we have our old friend Alexander Emmanuel Rodriguez. The Yankees basically have had one of the coldest hitters in the game in the middle of their lineup. The problem, as Tyler Kepner explained on Bats, is that we have no idea whether Alex can emerge from this or not. This could be what he is post-steroids and post-surgery.
Here’s a lineup to consider tonight, assuming Damon can play:
Damon LF
Jeter SS
Cano 2B
Teixeira 1B
A-Rod 3B
Posada C
Swisher RF
Gardner CF
Chamberlain RHP
Or take a chance and play Matsui in LF. He hits Kawakami well according to the Japanese media. Desperate times call for desperate measures.
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They are still leading the wild card so I doubt Joe is going to mix it up that much. But I do agree that something has to be done
…..because this team stinks
I would go…
Gardner CF
Jeter SS
Cano 2B
Teixeira 1B
A-Rod 3B
Matsui LF
Posada C
Swisher RF
Chamberlain RHP
What do we have to lose….Let Matsui play 6-7 solid innings then put in Melky
We have to do something.
We really need this series as much as any team needs any series in June.
What’s interesting is that the pitching has been outstanding for the most part.
Yikes.
http://pinstripedbible.mlblogs.com/
I KNEW we were hitting into too many DP’s.
Fallacy my foot (this was a discussion from yesterday).
Hey Pete,
Offense is horrible for sure. What about our defense, and lack of fundamental play? I keep going back to Swish’s miscues on the field (right next to Pesky’s pole) and then those awful plays on the basepaths. I know its unfair to place it on one player, but those have left such a bad taste in my mouth…I especially thought about them since now alot of ppl are pointing to Becketts peformance as somehow “derailing” the offense. Can it be that play’s such as Swish’s could have accomplished the same?
I know it didn’t matter, since we failed to capitalize once again, but what about Melky trying to take 3rd on that grounder in front of him last night. He’s a dead duck if not for a really bad error. I just see it as a perfect synecdoche for the brand of baseball we’re playing right now. Won’t even mention he who shall not be named at third’s defense….
Thanks.
By the way, Brett the Jet Gardner should be playing instead of Swishy, not Melky.
“And of course we have our old friend Alexander Emmanuel Rodriguez. The Yankees basically have had one of the coldest hitters in the game in the middle of their lineup. The problem, as Tyler Kepner explained on Bats, is that we have no idea whether Alex can emerge from this or not. This could be what he is post-steroids and post-surgery.”
Bingo. Alex is already 34 and his body is breaking down form the steroid use, just like Giambi’s did. Combine that with his hip surgery and it is no shock that he looks like a replacement player.
This is what A-Rod is and will be in the future. The days of him playing 160 games with a .300 average, 35+ HRs, 120+ RBIs, 20+ steals are gone. He is basically Giambi now.
Completely random and totally off topic point: The Mets logo is the worst ripoff ever. Come on guys, come up w/something more original than an interlocking NY, it’s been done before.
A-Rod is going to come back from this. Maybe not this year, but I have no doubt in my mind it will happen.
Gary, I would NOT bat Arod behind Tex – Tex needs someone to protect him and it’s obvious that he’s getting nothing to hit since Arod has been in such a slump…
Remember when the Yanks had a perfect record in holding their opponents to 3 runs or less until about 2 weeks ago? That seems like years ago now.
Has anyone else mentioned that today is Hughes’ birthday?
Though the team has not been doing well, HE has, so I’m sure he’ll have a nice birthday.
Happy Birthday to him!
Happy birthday Phil!
Derek, it pains me to speak ill of you, but as the saying goes, “If you’re going to ground into a double play, have the decency to strike out.” He’s become Captain Rally Killer lately.
People seem focused on Tex needing Alex to hit so if Alex isn’t hitting, how does batting him 5th and still behind Tex help?
Wave Your Hat
June 24th, 2009 at 11:50 am
“No way a bench player is not silly..it’s exactly what he was supposed to be at the start of the season. His stats for his career are mediocre. The only reason why he is starting is because Nady went down. If Nady is healthy (obviously a big if) I’d much rather see a righty / lefty platoon with those two guys.”
Over his career, Swisher has been the better player both offensively and defensively. You can look it up.
As to the platoon, careerwise Nady has been marginally better than Swisher against lefties, while Swisher has been much better than Nady against righties.
Given the likelihood that Nady’s arm is going to be compromised, I can’t see why he’d start over Swisher against either lefties or righties. If the Yanks are sensible Nady, if he does come up, will be primarily a PH/DH.
— — — —
Hmm, maybe you should look at the numbers. I would call a career ba of .243 and a slugging percentage of .455, mediocre.
Also, his splits this year have him batting 20 points better left handed and 30 points better in slugging with double the amount of games.
Also, his WAR is 1.5 this year. Gardners is 1.6 and Melky’s is 1.0. We have 3 4th outfielders lets face it.
Why would you hit Jeter 2nd when he’s been striken with the double play disease again?
Jeter has had 8 GDP’s all year.. 4 of them have been in the past week. Jeter doesn’t need to move. Let’s not try and get out of the 1st inning as fast as possible.
The only thing I’d like to see changed is our clean up hitter whos not doing much cleaning up and our 1bman who’s been the offense. I’d like to see them switched to try and get Alex going… For the naysayers.. try Maris/Mantle in 61. It worked well for Roger.
Check that, 4 4th outfielders when Nady gets back
E-gawa: Good example. You may have something there.
Gardner CF
Jeter SS
Cano 2B
Texiera 1B
Matsui LF
Posada C
Rodriguez 3B
Cabrera RF
Chamberlain P
I still go back to the question, if Alex was using PEDs after 2003 and he knows how to beat the system, why would he stop now?
I know it makes for fun debate to suggest this is his first clean year but why would he pick a year coming off surgery to go it alone, so to speak, if he had never done that before?
A-Rod needs to get it going, that’s all. As he goes, as does the O.
If he’s using steroids, whatever. There’s nothing we could do about it, so who cares?
He’s gotta get going soon. Too me he seems close; right wha they call “in between” pitches and whe he hits them it’s right at somebody.
With that lineup you still have the issue of Alex behind Tex giving him no protection whatsoever. Tex is getting nothing to hit as teams feel they might as well face Arod then Tex sort of like Alex isnt even there.
I know this is crazy but why not this:
Damon
Jeter
Arod
Tex
Cano
Posada
Swisher
Gardner
Chamberlain
Gary
—-
This is what A-Rod is and will be in the future. The days of him playing 160 games with a .300 average, 35+ HRs, 120+ RBIs, 20+ steals are gone. He is basically Giambi now.
—-
this is so ridiculously false i don’t know where to start.
the guy is still hurt, he can’t drive off his leg at the plate or in the field when throwing. he doesn’t even stand on his back leg when he swings, and he almost falls over everytime he swings at something low and away.
when he is healthy and still not hitting, then you can talk.
unfortunately he won’t be healthy til about this time next season(after he has the surgery he ACTUALLY NEEDS). if he wasn’t a-rod, he would still be on the DL, or in the minors. unfortunately we do not have the luxury of letting him get healthy before we need him in games because our replacements for 3b are god awful.
wha is what, and whe is when.
I give A-Rod a TON of credit for playing hurt.
E-Gawa,
If Gardner leads off in front of Jeter, I would have him steal 2nd every time he gets on base to prevent Jeter GIDP. Brett has stolen successfully 15/17 times this year, if I remember correctly.
i say put gardner leading off and move everyone down a spot. have damon hit third.
vito b-I like that idea.
I’d feel good about sitting A-Rod out longer. He’s obviously struggling. He can’t move too well. He just had surgery and still needs more. I think it’s a post-operation thing that’ll pass, not a post-steroid thing. I think we’ve (probably) already seen a post-steroid A-Rod have excellent seasons. In the meantime why not use Ramiro Pena? The guy’s pretty good w/the glove and he’s not as bad as a heavily-slumping A-rod at the plate.
DB-
I’m not arguing Nick is an all-star. You were arguing Nady over Swisher, or a platoon. I don’t think it holds up.
Nady is not better defensively than Swisher, as much as Swisher’s defense has been annoying you. They both are what they are. And you have to consider the effect of Nady’s injury.
Offensively, Swisher’s career OPS is .811, Nady’s .792. Swisher’s career SLG is .455, Nady’s .458. Swisher has Nady in OBP, Nady has Swisher in the less important BA category.
Nady is a better hitter against lefties than Swisher is, while Nick, though he hits lefties better than righties, is much better than Nady against righties. If Nady is really up to RF defensively, then yes by all means platoon them, but what’s the likelihood Nady’s arm will be up to it?
All I’m saying is that Nick is far from the cause of the Yanks’ current problems, and that I wouldn’t get too excited over the return of Nady.
“I still go back to the question, if Alex was using PEDs after 2003 and he knows how to beat the system, why would he stop now? ”
This is basically the question that Pete fails to answer. He keeps claiming that A-rod is now terrible because he is off steroids. Well according to A-rod he’s been off steroids for years.
Pete claims that it’s easy for A-rod to get steroids that are undetectable. First of all, does such a thing even exist? Secondly, if he can then why are we assuming this is his first year off them? If he can keep taking roids without getting caught why wouldn’t he be doing so?
Honestly, it’s just very obvious to me that Pete has an extreme dislike for A-rod and takes every opportunity to rip the guy.
A-rod is slumping terribly right now but there is no evidence suggesting it has anything to do with steroids.
They didn’t need a lift when Posada came off the DL. The team was hot. They excelled without Posada this year unlike last year when they went into the tank without him.
I do think the new stadium has them HR happy. But then again this has been a problem with this offense in recent years; they try to always hit HRs. It was a problem in the old stadium too.
Sounds like Nady will be back next week. I would go:
CF Gardner
SS Jeter
1B Teixiera
3B Rodriguez
LF Damon
C Posada
2B Cano
RF Nady/Melky
DH Matsui
Too many pies, not enough singles.
Why bat him 5th Pete? He’s an 8 slot in the NL and 9 slot in AL.
Girardi is the eternal optimist though, look for him to bat 4th until we are mathematically eliminated.
There’s no need to analyze the heck out of the slump the Yankees are currently in.
The bottom line is, the offense hasn’t been producing runs. Over the last 13 games they are averaging 4 runs scored per game. Take out the 15 run game against the mets and they are averaging 3.08 runs per game. That is simply not enough to win.
If the Yankees score more runs they will win. If they don’t, they will continue to lose. Discussion over.
Patrick-Your point is a good one but HGH is a ped that cannot be detected w/normal testing. At least I’m pretty sure.
i really do not understand this whole assumption that a-rod is suddenly “post-steroids” just because selena roberts and peter gammons told him not to do it, because his confession cleansed him of all his sins, or because pete abe makes nastier remarks about him. it’s really naive. i don’t know if a-rod has been doing steroids his entire yankee career, but if he has been and he’s suddenly stopping now then obviously there would be other things going on – things that should be more interesting to beat writers than his current slump. also, we are not buying this bridge-jumping bs. lowell and utley both recovered from this surgery. they had a whole year, and they weren’t rushed back. do a little research about the injury and it’s recovery instead of telling us the yankees are going to stink forever more because of a-rod. you know what, if the yankees actually were to get into financial difficulty because of a-rod’s contract (which is btw preposterous) then that in terms of long-term yankees tradition could potentially be good for us, the fans, and for the team.
bottom line: do real reporting, and give us real facts and real analysis. these last-minute rile the natives cheapies are really tired. well… yeah.
At this point, it might be easier for yankee fans to accept that this is roughly the same team as last year rather than figuring out line up changes. This team is still 2 years away from being a baseball team rather than a collection of “paper talent” that can wreak havoc on the rest of the AL. In considering the past week and the entire season, to be only 1 game better than last year speaks larger volumes about the make up of the team, the manger, the pitching coach, the hitting coach, especially when you consider that for the last month, they have had pretty much everyone healthy.
Maybe the Yanks just need a break from the NL!
I doubt Girardi will make drastic changes to the line-up. The guy has shown a tiny bit of flexibility with the pitching staff (albeit sometimes mind-boggling flexibility), but I doubt A-Rod’s moving anywhere save maybe the 3rd spot. And Cano should not bat anywhere in the top 5, IMO I’d be batting him 7th or 8th.
Swish needs to be spelled more. If Nady can play the outfield, he needs to be playing 3 to 4 games a week out there and earn his way to bench time. Swish has certainly earned that.
This is the lineup I’d use tonight:
Jeter SS
Gardner CF
Cano 2B
Teixeira 1B
Matsui LF
Rodriguez 3B
Posada C
Swisher RF
Chamberlain P
Drop the slumping bats to the bottom third (Posada, Rodriguez, Swisher). Let Gardner/Matsui start and bring the hot hitters up in the order (Gardner, Cano, Matsui, Teixeira). That leaves Jeter in the lead-off spot, if only to cut down on DP’s.
“we have no idea whether Alex can emerge from this or not. This could be what he is post-steroids and post-surgery.”
I brought this up last week and called it the ” Doomsday Scenario ”
In it Alex builds a gilded tower for him to live in next to the stadium complete with a tunnel that leads to the clubhouse. He only emerges to fulfill his contractual obligations to the team and collect his checks.
But… I’m not buying it yet. Too talented.. and I won’t say too young but rather …..not old yet.
Barry had a pretty good post steroids career.
Wave, point well taken. I’m interested to see how Nady makes out in his rehab. He seemed to really turn a corner last year and was one of our most productive guys. If he’s healthy, like the start of the season, he should at least get the nod for a platoon in right. As far as the lineup now, you might as well throw the names in a hat and pick them out. Couldn’t do any worse
Yeah, the fact that they are only one game better at this point than last year’s team is kind of scary.
The big difference from last year is that while we may only be a game better the Rays are still bbehind us.
Why would you give up on the season? Where’s the fun in that? It’s totally ludicrous.
pc69
June 24th, 2009 at 12:45 pm
At this point, it might be easier for yankee fans to accept that this is roughly the same team as last year rather than figuring out line up changes. This team is still 2 years away from being a baseball team rather than a collection of “paper talent” that can wreak havoc on the rest of the AL. In considering the past week and the entire season, to be only 1 game better than last year speaks larger volumes about the make up of the team, the manger, the pitching coach, the hitting coach, especially when you consider that for the last month, they have had pretty much everyone healthy.
—————————————————–
Bingo!
This..
“Bingo. Alex is already 34 and his body is breaking down form the steroid use, just like Giambi’s did. Combine that with his hip surgery and it is no shock that he looks like a replacement player.
This is what A-Rod is and will be in the future. The days of him playing 160 games with a .300 average, 35+ HRs, 120+ RBIs, 20+ steals are gone. He is basically Giambi now.”
..is ridiculous and based on nothing more than speculation. Saying that Arod is/will be the equivalent of Giambi is TOTALLY UNFAIR. Arod was a better player than Giambi could have ever dreamed he would be in the field and at the plate. To simply lump these guys together and assume Alex’s production will be a .220 hitter and an oger in the field from this point forward is baseless.
Love this post. Keep up the good work Pete. I really enjoy seeing stats and breakdowns like this (whether good or bad).
Although you should try to get GIDPs into there. I bet that’s a huge factor too.
“Patrick-Your point is a good one but HGH is a ped that cannot be detected w/normal testing. At least I’m pretty sure. ”
That might be so but Pete’s point is still nonsense.
I b in behind.
Patrick-You’re right about that.
Wave,
What are Swisher’s career numbers the last 2 years?
He’s fallen off the cliff as an offensive player the last 2 years.
He’s also terrible defensively and a worse baserunner. Watch him play everyday. It’s not pretty.
Is he the sole reason for the collapse? Of course not.
He is though part of the problem because he’s not consistent enough to be an everyday player on a playoff calibur team.
Unfortunately, he is in this lineup and the ineptitude of the other guys highlight his weaknesses because you can’t hide him the lineup.
I am surprised that Pete didn’t address the Yanks’ issues with defense in has analysis. It’s an important area and reflects a huge dropoff from the Yanks’ winning streak, when they played 18 errorless consecutive games.
Ed H.
You could do that but I just don’t see Jeter or the lead off spot as the problem with the line up.
How about this? Tex needs to be protected, and one of the two most consistent hitters so far is Cano; Cano should hit behind him.
Damon
Jeter
Tex
Cano
Arod
Posada
Swisher
Gardner
Chamberlain
Patrick it would not surprise me if there were still untraceable PED’s out there and in use. I vaguely remember something on TV once about 10 years ago, where a guy in a lab was saying how they’re always coming up with new ones to pass each updated drug test.
Wait until, that’s correct. HGH can’t be detected with urinalysis but can with blood. There is no way the Union would allow blood testing. I never heard any one saying that HGH gives you the boost steroid do though. Isn’t it just used to rehab faster and an adjunct to steroids?
Cano has been hitting well lately but I hate him protecting anybody; not enough power. Still, I guess he’s as good an option by anybody else right now.
Cano hitting cleanup? come on. He cant hit with risp.
DB-Don’t ask me, I have no clue.
From gameday, Tex had pitches as good as anyone in 3 of his 4 ABs last night. He was seeing a steady diet of fastballs.
The 3rd inning was an unintentional intentional walk but the the other ABs he was bad just like everyone else.
leading off an inning this year.
Jeter is hitting .340 .393 in 112 PA’s
Gardner is hitting .256 .341 in 44 PA’s
This team can’t hit a lick lately!
Jeter needs to bat 1st unless Brett is in front of him and stealing 2nd on the first pitch.
Swish is a bench player getting too much time but what to do? Nady, hopefully can at least split time with him soon.
Sui and Damon are both pretty good hitters, but vary streaky, and neither can play the field anymore. They are a log jam at DH.
The outfield is not that good. The Yankees have two guys that do a good job in center but you can’t play them at the same time because they lack power.
With A-Rod not healthy they may need to have 2 backup infielders.
5 outfielders, (when Nady comes back), 2 backup infielders, and a full time DH does not work so what to do?
I guess on July 31st we’ll know…
Is it any wonder that the older and injured players have a declining OPS and are hitting less in clutch situations? As usual by Girardi, they are being overused. Think not, then why are the less used players doing better. It’s time to bring in new fresh bats from AAA, rest players when possible no matter what their egos want, and bench or trade some of the road blocks- they will be gone soon anyway, so why not get potential value for them now.
He`ll come out of it. Hes beat, tired, and surgery does that. It takes time. Just bat him 2nd, 6th or 7th, give him a day or so off a week, and let him come around when he does and without pressure. Dont count or rely on him, and whatever he gives you he gives you. Without him, the lineup is still better than most.
E-gawa: Sample size.
Matsui in the outfield? Better hope nothing gets by him or it’s a triple.
Cano batting 3rd?
Insanity. But hell, I’m all for mixing it up.
As with the beginning of this year, Swisher stats are completely skewed by his career year in 07. He’s fun as a mascot with that retarded haircut, but an everyday player? DiMaggio is rolling over in his grave.
By ASB, this could be a 4th place team. Joba will throw about 100 pitches by the 4th inning tonight, walk a run or two in and the bats will likely still be dead.
Glass Jaw Yankees.
SJ44 is another guy that focuses too much on Swisher, it’s kind of weird. Talk about underrating Swisher’s abilities…
Swisher needs to back to the bench ASAP. He is apart of the problem.
Go out and get a bat for RF at the deadline if Nady can’t play the field
It is a sample size but what would Garnder have to hit to catch up to Jeter in those 80Abs? I don’t know what it is but I’m sure it’s an unrealistic number.
Kwakami, tonight’s starter for the Braves is a very good one (In Japan at least…he’s still trying to adjust himself to the new environment & the new ball (the ball used in MLB, that most Japanese pitchers have a hard time getting a good grip on)
Bridge Jumper-You actually have not been as bad as your name siggests, but this team is far from glass jawed. They lead the league in comebacks. They’re just in an offensive slump.
“Matsui in the outfield? Better hope nothing gets by him or it’s a triple.
Cano batting 3rd?
Insanity. But hell, I’m all for mixing it up. ”
I’d sacrifice some D in LF for Matsui’s bat in the lineup. Plus, Damon is still injured and we can’t afford to have Melky’s bat in the lineup any longer.
Why is Cano batting 3 insanity? You don’t need OBP from the 3 slot, you need a guy that can drive in runs. With Teixeira behind him Cano would get a lot of good pitches to hit.
There is a reason that Nady was named the starter coming out of spring Training and Swisher was slated for the bench.
As usual, the coaching staff knew more than the armchair managers. They looked beyond the loud music and mohawks and looked at the type of player that he is.
I have never been a huge ARod fan. I think he is mostly like the bells and whistles that come with buying BMW or Mercedes when in reality a solid Camry or Accord would suffice. That said, I do think it is premature to make a comparison of ARod to Giambi. They are not and never have been in the same ball park as a player.
ARod is what he is, a spot light seeking head case that will have more ups than downs, at least on the field. But what you will get from ARod now and in the future is a guy who will stay within the median of his career numbers. The line posted earlier of .300, 35 HR’s, 120 RBI’s, is probably about right. RBI totals and HR’s may very based on team make up and situation but tell me WHO would not want those types of number or players on a team. Don’t think you can win with a team like that, please reference the yankees from 96 – 99, red sox in 2004, Tigers in 2006… They all had players of that caliber and were very very successful.
If A-Rod is not the cleanup guy then Tex has to be.
If they are playing at home I’d bat Damon 3rd; on the road I’m not so sure.
How about:
Brett
Jeter
Damon
Tex
Canno
Arod
Posada
Swish/Melky
Pitcher
there are no fresh bats at AAA. There is nobody at AAA that can help them. This business of having too old a team is overblown
SJ,
You weren’t posting on yesterday’s game thread were you?
Was that an imposter?
Kwamikami pitched a great game up in Fenway last week
After a rough start, he has been very good over his last handful of starts
And we haven’t seen him before
I HATE the NL. The stupid idea of the pitcher batting ninth practically cost us as much as four runs yesterday.
You know, it’s funny how everyone is ripping on Swisher right now. I didn’t hear you guys two weeks ago when he was on fire.
The fact of the matter is, he is hitting .267/.397/.500 in June. Other than Mark Teixeira and Brett Gardner he’s been the best hitter on the team this month.
So, Melky is 8 of 20 and Gardner is 8 of 20, both with 2 RBIs, but Melky has “reverted”? Care to explain how? The fact that he’s no longer batting .330 like he started out in April?
And the A-Rod “worries” are just absurd. The guy needs hip surgery and is playing this entire season at less than 100% healthy because he wants to help the team. But yeah, I’m sure it’s his use of steroids.
if AROD has been on steroids while w/ the Yankees wouldn’t there be a paper trail to prove it? I mean he can’t go to dinner without it being on Page 6…..I don’t think he could hide that while playing in New York…I think it’s more to do w/ post surgery and his always controversial private life more than the roids…I need proof to buy that
“They lead the league in comebacks.”
Does anyone really think this is a quality trait for a MLB team? I for one do not. Sure it works early in the season but pitchers watch video, it will eventually burn you in the end relying too much on late inning heroics and trying get the “big hit”. How about just getting on base and driving in men with singles, doubles, etc? Everyone in this lineup is looking for a 3 run homerun to tie the game. Just get a hit! that’s all it takes!
I like the term Bridge Jumper, far from it in real life.
Fire Kevin Long
So I guess the roster moves will be:
Ransom for Berroa
then Nady for Pena
I’d like to see Pena stay on the team but they can always bring him back up if needed.
little bit of irony: did we not hate it last season when girardi changed the lineup EVERY single day for most of the season and now we’re clammoring for him to switch things up..
not saying we’re wrong for this opinion right now, but boy what a differece a year makes.
Bridge Jumper-Um, you can start comebacks w/things besides home runs. Remember the game against the twins? Won in the bottom of the ninth w/ a Melky Cabrera bases loaded single. Next day, tied in the eighth w/a Tex single. Day after, tied in the seventh w/a Melky sac fly.
“Wait till they come to OUR house AGAIN June 24th, 2009 at 1:01 pm
I HATE the NL. The stupid idea of the pitcher batting ninth practically cost us as much as four runs yesterday.”
I respectfully disagree, I think all of baseball should get rid of the DH. It would eliminate the fat non athletes out of the sport and would be better for the game. I don’t like the idea of a guy being able to rest all game and just swing the bat 4 times and win the season ‘HR title’ while most of his competition is taxing their energy playing defense for 9 innings
Might as well let A-Rod get that 2nd surgery down now.
Regarding comebacks why are you behind in the game in the first place?
Regarding Gardner, all you need to know about him is what you saw yesterday, a guy on Atlanta tagged up from first on a fly to Gardner
He is hitting better but should not be a regular. You got to be able to do better than that for the Yankee CF
I know taking potshots at Alex is fun and all, but can we really seriously think that one of the best players of all time will now simply be a replacement level player for the rest of his career? I’m sorry, I don’t see it. He comes back after 3 grueling months of surgery and rehab and lights things up for two weeks. So just because he’s in a ridiculous slump we are supposed to believe that this is who he is? When Jeter went into that month long slump a couple of years ago was it the decline everybody has been waiting for with him? Nope. Just a huge, inexplicable slump. We know Giambi was never the same after steroids, but he was never the 5 tool athlete that A-Rod was and wasn’t nearly as well conditioned. I think this has more to do with the no spring training, surgery, and rehab than it does with a steep decline. Will he ever be who he was? Is he worth the money he’s getting paid? Nope. But to think that he has suddenly turned into Wilson Betemit is ridiculous and sensationalistic journalism.
Pete, you constantly make reference to this being how A-Rod is “post steroids”. So are you accusing him of having been on steroids straight up til the end of last year, only stopping because someone finally caught him? At no point did A-Rod suggest he was on them with the Yankees or at any point after he failed a test and they started really instituting testing. Yet he won 2 MVPs and had 3 other seasons that, while not quite up to his normal standards, were seasons most players in baseball would kill for. He started off doing well when he first came back from surgery too (average was still down but he was getting tons of walks and hitting for power). So are you seriously going to say because of one extended slump that it’s “post steroids”? I think the surgery and lack of rest is far more likely to be the reason. I know you mentioned the surgery but you seem to make the implication an awful lot that you think he was on steroids right up til the beginning of this season.
tampayank-You’re allowed. But I think it says something that the NL is the only league left in all of professional basebal around the world w/o a DH.
In my opinion batting pitchers are more often than not automatic outs. They make the game less exciting.
“I’d sacrifice some D in LF for Matsui’s bat in the lineup.”
One thing that bothered me about Yankees past were the statues playing on the field. Giambi at first base was annoying and you can already see the difference it makes having a good defender there, one who can snag balls, be mobile, and actually throw to different bases.
Things aren’t so great in the outfield now with Swisher playing bad and Damon with his noodle arm, I’d rather not have Matsui playing anywhere in the outfield except maybe left field at Fenway.
Plus, just weeks ago half the people here were calling for Matsui’s head because he wasn’t hitting anything. What makes you think he’s gonna contribute more than Damon?
“Why is Cano batting 3 insanity? You don’t need OBP from the 3 slot, you need a guy that can drive in runs.”
Ugh, Cano can’t drive in runs, that’s why he shouldn’t bat 3rd, 4th, or 5th.
Patrick,
too many people try to make him out to be a better player than he is based on his OBP.
If he had a rotten personality, nobody would be defending his play.
He’s not a good player. Unfortunately, the Yankees have no one else and he is playing everyday.
Nady won’t help much because he can’t throw.
It’s just going to be yet another inconsistent position from a production standpoint for the team.
comebacks and Gardner-Why you are behind is a nonpoint as long as you win.
You’re telling me that when they came back against, say, Minnesota any one of those three games you were shaking your head after the walk off and saying, “This team sucks. They fall behind too much.”
Maybe you were and I didn’t know it, but I have no issue w/the comebacks as long as they win.
@ KyleLitke: Haha, it looks like we both took the time to compose similar responses. Well done! But I beat ya to it
“Bridge Jumper-Um, you can start comebacks w/things besides home runs. Remember the game against the twins? Won in the bottom of the ninth w/ a Melky Cabrera bases loaded single. Next day, tied in the eighth w/a Tex single. Day after, tied in the seventh w/a Melky sac fly.”
Yes, I was there at the stadium.
My point is you keep digging a hole for yourself every single night, it’s going to wear the entire team down trying to do it day in and day out. Sure, it’s great to have a comeback victory, but a solid team gets on top often and early.
Bridge Jumper-Were you there? Good for you.
Solid teams win. However they do it, they do it.
Cano has never been a good situational hitter. Permanently moving him up in the lineup is a very, very, bad idea.
“You’re telling me that when they came back against, say, Minnesota any one of those three games you were shaking your head after the walk off and saying, “This team sucks. They fall behind too much.””
No, but I remember thinking “Too much of this is definitely not a good thing”.
This is what happens when you take the magic vitamins away from a lifetime abuser of these chemicals. This is what we get for overpaying a player once again.He might pick it up a little to be an average player but that’s it.
Didn’t the 07 Devil Rays lead the league in come from behind wins? The team that had the worst record in baseball that year.
Come form behind wins are meaningless stats. They are not necessarily traits of a quality team. It is all about luck.
Bridge Jumper, I just think that is really nitpicking.
When a team wins, they win. However they do it is an afterthought. I find it ridiculous to fault a team for too many comebacks.
No, but I remember thinking “Too much of this is definitely not a good thing”.
——————
Tell that to the Rays last season.
They lead everyone in comeback wins in 2008. Didn’t seem to hurt them.
Lonz-Come from behind are meaningless in that it makes no difference tha they come from behind, you’re right. They’re just as meaningful as any other game in that they are wins llike any other. Nothing wrong w/them either.
Of course, Pete makes a point to emphasize Alex’s struggles while everyone else has sleepwalked through the last couple of weeks
My point is that it seems ridiculous to call a team glass jawed that comes back as often as this team does.
Too many steroids.
Maybe Arod should start using steroids again?
SJ44,
I think you are discounting the importance of OBP. Of the three stats – BA, OBP and SLG – OBP is the most important.
The fact is, Swisher has been the third best hitter on the team in the month of June. He is going through a slump right now so it’s easy for people such as yourself to criticize him.
Swisher has a huge OBP, can hit for significant power and is at worst an average fielder in RF. The bad plays stick out but overall he’s not bad.
Okay so he isn’t a great baserunner. Well Posada isn’t a great baserunner either but I don’t see him criticized nonstop for it.
Swisher is an above average starter on this team. There is no need to bench him.
tampayank
June 24th, 2009 at 1:04 pm
I respectfully disagree, I think all of baseball should get rid of the DH. It would eliminate the fat non athletes out of the sport and would be better for the game. I don’t like the idea of a guy being able to rest all game and just swing the bat 4 times and win the season ‘HR title’ while most of his competition is taxing their energy playing defense for 9 innings
Couldn’t agree with you more. Nothing ruins the game more than taking away the tatical aspect of the game and forcing the manager to NOT have to manage like the DH. Get rid of it, there are enough runs scored without Big Papi clones siphoning millions from teams who are then left with throwing Jose Veras’ late in games as their only option.
“Swisher is an above average starter on this team. There is no need to bench him.”
Most. Absurd. Statement. Ever.
I think it’s fair to ask the question about Alex and PEDs. He’s opened himself up to that.
It’s not fair to answer the question to suit an agenda.
Having a lot of come from behind wins also means you are behind a lot of the time.
Whether this be because of bad starting pitching or a dead offense, it’s not exactly a good sign.
“Most. Absurd. Statement. Ever. ”
Prove it.
On the flip side, the several posts by Wave Your Hat especially have proven that Swisher is an above average starter. His numbers are very good when compared to the rest of the league.
As an aside to SJ44 in particular, my opinion has nothing to do with his personality and I do watch him play every day.
Adam
June 24th, 2009 at 1:02 pm
So, Melky is 8 of 20 and Gardner is 8 of 20, both with 2 RBIs, but Melky has “reverted”? Care to explain how? The fact that he’s no longer batting .330 like he started out in April?
And the A-Rod “worries” are just absurd. The guy needs hip surgery and is playing this entire season at less than 100% healthy because he wants to help the team. But yeah, I’m sure it’s his use of steroids.
======
I see these “best” lineups on here and chuckle.
Melky Cabrera isn’t in any of them.
The kid got hurt, and his left-handed swing wasn’t there for a few weeks. He’s gotten it back, however, and is back to driving the ball from the left side of the plate (double last night, opposite field shot into Jone’s glove).
He also has some of the most prolonged ABs on the team. Not to mention, he’s the best defensive outfielder on the Yankees, and he’s 24 friggin’ years old.
Melky can hit, Melky can drive the ball, and Melky has a good approach at the plate.
That same plate discipline and compact swing that has been there since the end of last season, through WB, ST and April and May has returned.
I’d say, with the shoulder obviously a lot better, he has indeed,
“…reverted to Melkyness,” but not the way the blog writer means.
And winning the game is a good sign because it is a WIN.
No different from any other win.
“Bridge Jumper, I just think that is really nitpicking.
When a team wins, they win. However they do it is an afterthought. I find it ridiculous to fault a team for too many comebacks.”
Let’s use an analogy that might help you understand, okay?
You go down to Atlantic City, you’ve had a great year and plan to bring about $3000 bucks to spend, if you lose it, so be it.
You start gambling, you start the night off on the slot machines. You lose about $1000 bucks after a few hours, but, you manage to get $2000 back in one shot when you hit triple 7′s. You decide to leave and come back tomorrow.
Tomorrow comes you go back to the same slot machine, again you start losing, you are down to your last $5 bucks. You throw it all in the machine. You win the $5000 jackpot! Holy cow, you have some luck there buddy!
You decide to take the Mrs. out until 2am dancing (facetious Arod dig)
The next day, you go back to the same slot machine. You are down to your last $5 bucks again, throw it all in and lose. You decide that you are so lucky that it’s okay to hit the ATM and use some of your other money, you take out another $3000. By the end of the night, you are down $10,000 and contemplating what you might be able to fetch for that diamond you bought your wife.
Get it now? Come from behind victories are all luck. Good teams make you look bad through 9 innings. Sadly enough, the Yankees look bad against the worst teams in baseball lately.
“Of course, Pete makes a point to emphasize Alex’s struggles while everyone else has sleepwalked through the last couple of weeks”
I don’t think so. I think the criticism is fair. He’s affecting the teams play directly. It’s not a after the game/non baseball attack that Pete likes to do.
“I think you are discounting the importance of OBP. Of the three stats – BA, OBP and SLG – OBP is the most important.”
OBP isn’t more important than BA and SLG at least not in my opinion.
Unless you want a team full of Giambis and Swishers that is.
If you ask me OBP is now overrated. A guy doesn’t have to be able to hit a lick, but if he has a good OBP then it’s all good with a lot of people nowadays.
For example, A-Rod has a what .370 OBP this year? Yet his BA is terrible and he looks terrible at the plate. I’d much rather see A-Rod get his hits than get his walks.
Like everything in life, balance is the key. All walk and no hit is not a very good baseball player. Neither is all hit and no walk although I’d much rather have a .340 hitter on my team with a .370 OBP over a .240 hitter with a .410 OBP.
bodhi-I make nobody happy. Swishy has been slumping and is an awful baserunner and defender. I keep Melky and Gardy in and take out Swishy.
you know what, maybe swisher is an ‘above average starter on this team’..but all that means is that someone needs to fire brian cashman asap. that guy shouldnt be our best player.
Patrick, you can’t be trusted. With your mayo-hating ways…
Swish is probably an above-average starter on this team now, only because every else has fallen off the deep end.
Berroa would be an above-average starter…at the little league level.
“Damon LF
Jeter SS
Cano 2B
Teixeira 1B
A-Rod 3B”
1 month ago I said this & the thread thought I was crazy, I specifically remember saying in a playoff series a 3 4 5 of
Robi
Teix
Alex
would be pretty dangerous. Wow now ppl want to 180 and say it’s a good idea.
Bridge Jumper-There’s the heart of the issue. I totally disagree that they’re all luck. They’re wins just like any other.
Come from behind, total domination-I don’t care. A win is a win.
Something this team has not been doing lately.
The reason I like come back wins, is because it means the team is still playing 27 outs.
Its so easy to accuse the team of mailing it in and say they are playing half dead for 7 innings, but when they come from behind- it shows there is still life on that planet. It doesn’t mean they played well the other 7 innings, but at least they are still valuing each out.
Brandon- are you fighting Cena again tomorrow? Or have you already proven total domination?
Gardner Damon
Jeter Jeter
Damon Arod
Arod Teixiera
Teixiera \OR/ Cano
Cano Posada
Posada Melky
Melky Gardner
Pitcher/ DH (Matsui) Pitcher / DH (matsui)
When Nady returns, he will be the DH and split time with Gardner/Melky and would take the spot behind Posada in either line-up.
**I think this is the way to go with the lineup. This has tex behind arod so he can protect him a little more, give him so good pitches to hit..arod also wouldnt have the pressure of hitting HR’s as cleanup, he can just try to get on base and then the power will follow**
S.A.-Exactly my point!
“Brandon- are you fighting Cena again tomorrow? Or have you already proven total domination?”
The Miz has a fight w/ him this wkend. I get him next wk. if he beats The Miz.
wow sorry that didnt come out like i wanted it to up there ^
there are two line-ups side by side and they are separate…that’s why the *\OR/* is there.
sorry guys for makin that so confusing!
Let’s dig a little deeper, shall we?
I’d like to see how many “comeback wins” this team has on the road as opposed to Yankee Stadium…this could tie into Pete’s theory that the stadium is partially the root of the problem.
If anyone can dig it up, it would help the argument.
Arod can’t be dropped in the line up right now. Tex will get pitched around no matter where he hits so we should protect Arod.
If Arod makes the last out in the first then Tex leads off and a walk would be fine. If Arod gets on then you have Tex batting with at least 1 man on base. Make sense?
Damon
Jeter
Arod
Tex
Posada
Cano
Swisher
Melky
Joba
here’s my lineup suggestion
jeter
cano
tex
a-rod
damon
swisher
cabrera
gardner
chamberlin
Bridge Jumper
My point is you keep digging a hole for yourself every single night, it’s going to wear the entire team down trying to do it day in and day out. Sure, it’s great to have a comeback victory, but a solid team gets on top often and early.
Hit the nail on the head. This is what people are missing. The comebacks are great and they show great determination, chemistry, or whatever other adjective one chooses to use but, it eventually starts hurting the line up more than helping the team. For every run down the Yankees get, each AB then takes on a different approach, Girardi has to manage differently, and the other team can dictate how they pitch to each hitter. It becomes exhausting for a hitter to approach each AB with the need for a 2B or greater result from the AB. Net result is the hitter then starts expanding the zone for the pitcher or has to settle for walks, which are nice but do not always produce runs.
Take last night, Yankees had a lead off double in the 3rd inning and Swisher tries to bunt the first pitch. Horrible decision. But those are the kind of “out of the box” AB’s that start showing up in hopes of “getting your team” back into the game.
They have enough pressure just trying to NOT hit into a DP, GO, or FO with RISP, digging out of a hole every night makes it worse.
SJ44, normally I agree with you, but the Swisher thing is ridiculous. His OPS is 12th among all outfielders in baseball. That means only 11 outfielders have been able to combine the ability to avoid making outs and hit for power to a greater degree than Swish. He has his flaws, but he is an above average starter on most teams. To compare, he is having a better year than JD Drew. To say he is not a good player is hyperbolic and not supported by fact.
Giuseppe Franco:
Stop calling me and other people names when you post. it’s not what we’re looking for here. If you can’t discuss baseball in a reasonable fashion, then don’t. Have your folks take you to the mall or whatever,
sorry
posada instead of cabrera
Who is to blame besides A-Rod?
This lineup doesn’t hit if he doesn’t hit. He isn’t hitting, thus we are slumping. When he starts hitting, the rest of the team will follow suit.
Swisher
Cano
Damon
Chamberlain
Gardner
Jeter
Arod
Texeira
Posada?
Bridge Jumper-Not really. It just makes me gald that Yankee Stadium is our home ballpark.
A win is a win is a win. When Tampa Bay was two games below five hundred, they had a run differential of plus 14 or something. Bet you they’d trade a few of those blow outs for comebacks.
No such thing as a lucky win unless Luis Castillo drops popups. A win is when you score more runs than your opponent. Doesn’t matter how.
The comparison to gambling is a terrible analogy, especially using slot machines. There is no skill whatsoever involved in pulling a lever and hoping for the best.
No, you don’t want to have to come from behind every game, and it’s certainly preferable to take a lead and keep it, and add to it, over the course of the game. But it takes skill to score runs and you make your own luck, by taking pitches, fouling pitches off, bearing down without freaking out when it gets tight.
Every so often, you’ll get a Luis Castillo-type play, but even there, if Teixeira doesn’t run like a demon, that’s a tie game, and who knows what happens in extra innings.
A win is a win. A run scored is a run scored. I never heard so many complaints about HOW a team wins a particular game.
I have been saying for weeks that I love the idea of Swisher batting in the #2 spot. Last night not withstanding, he takes pitches and good be a big asset to that spot in the batting order. His fundamentals may need some work though..
Swisher has been inconsistent his entire career…up periods followed by downers…other than, of course, his defense which is consistently an adventure, and not a positive one.
You do not build championship teams relying on a remarkably inconsistent guy like this at a corner position. Another Cashman mistake in judgment..Kenny Williams dumped a multi-year contract with considerable dollars on probably the only fool willing to take it.
cashman needs to trade for a third baseman & dh arod for the rest of the year.
if dh’ing him does not work dl him,dh posada & catch cervelli.
signing arod was a disaster.that money should of been spent to sign a 3rd baseman,cf & bullpen help.
if arod is a dead spot in our lineup we aren’t going anywhere.
if dh’ing him does not work dl him,dh posada & catch cervelli just for the sake of doing something about this mess.
what is the worst thing that can happen? we lose a few games.
Doreen-EXACTLY. You just nailed my point.
Plus, discounting come-from-behind wins discounts one of two things: Your offense hanging in, or your pitchers holding the other team down enough for you to come back.
let me try again
jeter ss
cano 2b
tex 1b
a-rod 3b
damon lf
swisher rf
cervelli c
gardner cf
chamberlin p
“how bout this?
June 24th, 2009 at 1:30 pm
Swisher
Cano
Damon
Chamberlain
Gardner
Jeter
Arod
Texeira
Posada?”
No I like this better
Igawa
Swisher
Duncan
Robertson
Joba
Girardi
Kay
Trost
Cashman
This team needs to have a monster July. Or else Kevin Long, who is just unable to teach situational hitting needs to go. He just kind of sucks as a hitting coach right now.
Swisher is a complementary player forced into an everyday role because of Nady’s injury. Let’s see what happens when Nady comes back and Swisher has his playing time reduced.
A-Rod is 34. Isn’t that the age that steroid users usually decline?
Bridge Jumper June 24th, 2009 at 1:28 pm
Let’s dig a little deeper, shall we?
I’d like to see how many “comeback wins” this team has on the road as opposed to Yankee Stadium…this could tie into Pete’s theory that the stadium is partially the root of the problem.
If anyone can dig it up, it would help the argument.
—————-
What exactly is your point?
It’s always to the home team’s advantage in close games. They know how many runs they need to win and they strategize their moves accordingly.
The road team doesn’t play to tie. They play to win.
You can’t put Cano in the 2-3 spot. Because of his hitting style, he’ll be prone to a lot of DP’s in those situations and won’t have the plate discipline to take the walk to set up Tex.
I would return Cano to the bottom of the lineup where he thrives and seems to even hit better w/RISP.
The guy could essentially carry the team from the 7 hole. The 5 hole isn’t working.
The true issue is no one is doing the job offensively and this team has yet again proven it’s a feast or famine offense.
Teams that play that way and don’t get balanced production are not championship teams.
We’ve seen this team in the playoffs. Remember that series against Detroit where all of sudden we turned Kenny Rogers into Cy Young?
Joe Torre was the manager then. This team has been pulling this same tired act for years now and there clearly is a presence on this team that is influencing the new guys to turn into feast or famine players.
Usually one guy slumps and another heats up and you are able to keep moving the chain.
Not with this team.
I don’t know how Girardi/Cashman fix this offense.
Will they break out of it? Sure. They will. And then they’ll be chasing the teams in front of them that they should have been many games ahead of.
The only positive of this streak is it pretty much assures that Damon and Matsui aren’t coming back. While they are true pro’s, they both have been here long enough to make these “slumps” a regular part of the season and they seem to go whichever way the wind is blowing on this team.
If everyone’s hot, they are red hot. If everyone’s cold, they are ice cold.
This isn’t Arod’s fault. This is a Yankee team problem that has been present for awhile now.
Outside of trading the starting lineup for 9 new guys, this kind of play is not going to go away until we bring the new blood that refuses to play this way.
We’re watching a truly horrible offensive team right now. Maybe tonight they’ll turn into a offensive force.
All I know is it’s frustrating and the part that really ruins it for the season is the pitchers are doing their jobs right now…the pattern we’ve seen with this team in the past is the hitters and pitchers rarely stay hot together.
The season’s not over, but seeing this kind of offensive malaise yet again has me frustrated since the 2nd half of the season we’ll be chasing someone.
From Cena’s Wikipedia-
Cena is also a fan of the Boston Red Sox,[161] Tampa Bay Rays,[163] New England Patriots,[164] and Boston Celtics.[161] Cena collects muscle cars and has over 20, some of which are one-of-a-kind.[165]
OK, so slot machines were bad…I was going to use poker, but was too lazy to write out the scenario.
It’s skill and luck to pull off come from behind victories every time you play.
The teams of the 90′s (especially 1998) made their opposition look silly most nights. Sure they had their share of come from behind victories as well, but, they were feared and they were aggressively dominating their opposition day in and day out.
You would expect a $200 million dollar roster to be the same. Essentially, the “life” you are referring to, shows up for 3 innings a game.
CF Gardner
SS Jeter
1B Teixiera
P Chamberlain
LF Matsui
C Posada
2B Cano
RF Cabrera
3B Rodriguez
Yes, I am kidding but just a little bit.
Should I remind everyone that when the season started in April, Swisher was ridiculously hot and everyone was kissing the ground he walked on, and basically saying that Cashman made the best trade of his career. (let’s not forget either we gave up Wilson Betemit for Swisher. A guy recently DFAed by the White Sox and a scout quoted him as “possible the worst player of all time”).
Point is- Swisher is streaky. Always has been, always will be. He will heat up when the rest of the team does. Hitting is contagious.
What is the plan for Hughes? He is pitching well. Is he a 2/3 inning, 1 inning, or a caddy for Wang. Or replacement for CC if he is skipped for his next start?
————————————————————–
Hitting is terrible. They look flat. The opposing pitchers are not that good.
A win is a win. A run scored is a run scored. I never heard so many complaints about HOW a team wins a particular game.
===
Exactly, Doreen. It’s the loser’s mentality – they feel “guilty” and lack a sense of entitlement to winning.
This is so a pre-2004 Boston Red Sox fan perspective.
It’s a certain kind of fan and it has nothing to do with the Yankees.
“Not deserving” to win; what a concept.
Yeah, Pete.
You always promote rational baseball discussion when you take your daily cheap shots at A-Rod.
the offense has been pathetic. a shake-up of the lineup would do some good, but i doubt it will happen. i’m all for moving cano up and arod down, but i dont think the team wants to mess with arod’s fragile psyche.
i also think gardner needs to remain a fixture in the lineup for a bit. speed does wonders.
i do think we need a de rosa type to give people a break and not be a liability with the bat. this team looks great on paper, but the offense has been so frustrating to watch.
just pathetic
” No I like this better
Igawa
Swisher
Duncan
Robertson
Joba
Girardi
Kay
Trost
Cashman”
Nah this is better
Swisher
Henry
Tex
Lucchino
Epstein
Cashman
Arod
Francona
Green
I criticized the Swisher deal originally. Now I’ve totally changed my tune. It was one of Cashman’s few masterstrokes.
Just think what right field woould be like with OUT Swisher!
It’s also worth noting that in April when Swisher picked it up was exactly when we needed it most, w/Tex slumping and A-Rod on the DL.
Does anyone know Posada’s numbers since he returned? He just looks awful, and last night was a capper. If he isn’t going to provide the offense, maybe he should get some more time off too.
Patrick
June 24th, 2009 at 1:02 pm
You know, it’s funny how everyone is ripping on Swisher right now. I didn’t hear you guys two weeks ago when he was on fire.
The fact of the matter is, he is hitting .267/.397/.500 in June. Other than Mark Teixeira and Brett Gardner he’s been the best hitter on the team this month.
CORRECTION: in the beginning of the month.
When he was hitting I didn’t rip him even though he was making bone head plays. Take a look at the past 12 games posted in this thread, Swisher is 2nd to last behind ARod.
Patrick, he sucks. What is it? his bubbly personality and cool hair cut? maybe his rockstar hand shake?
Nah this is better
I only want Yankee ppl in this lineup
Swisher
Hank
Boras
Sterling
Waldman
Cashman
Kim Jones
Kay
Green
“Exactly, Doreen. It’s the loser’s mentality – they feel “guilty” and lack a sense of entitlement to winning.”
Actually, I think it’s the opposite. I’ve been on dominate teams as a player. I’ve also been on losing teams and teams that had an aura of luck every now and again.
I never felt “guilty” winning on any of the three types of teams regardless of how the team won. But I always knew I was feared when I was on the dominate team.
I’m trying to figure why the fans here at Lohud think Swish is a complimentary player, when no one else I have spoken to or read thinks so. His OPS and OPS+ place him in the top 5 offensively at his position, and in the top 15 among all outfielders. He has flaws that make it fair to say he is not a top 15 outfielder, but he is certainly playing like a top 30 guy, which makes him at worst an above average starter. The guy has a better career OPS+ than Johnny Damon. He is a starter, but a few baserunning mistakes bunched together have clouded the judgement of some people here.
how’s this lineup:
jeter
damon
arod
tex
posada
swisher
cano
gardner
p
i think the #4 hitter is more important than the #3. if a man gets on, then the #4 hitter will bat anyways. if not, then arod can do his usual inning-ending-strikeout. but really, arod needs tex behind him right now.
cano can bring in rbi’s from the obp machines posada & swisher.
If how Swisher goes impacts the teams success, the team can’t be very good to begin with.
Girardi seemed to indicate that the team would make adjustments to compensate for Nady’s possible throwing issues in order to get his bat back in the line-up.
Patience is hard when they are losing ground but there really isn’t another alternative in the short run.
Mo-
I don’t really get it either. And here is a scarier thought… when Nady got hurt, where would we be without Swisher???
Fun fact:
Player A: .301/.371/.449/.821
Player B: .292/.347/.453/.800
One is Derek Jeter. The other is Nick Green. Amazing.
I don’t call him stupid, crude names. Either figure out a way to post without calling people names or get out. That simple.
Paul Davis
June 24th, 2009 at 1:28 pm
here’s my lineup suggestion
jeter
cano
tex
a-rod
damon
swisher
cabrera
gardner
chamberlin
______________
Yea Paul — except you’ve got four outfielders and no catcher!
Can we all just agree that A-Rod is not a good fit and after this season we should do everything possible to lobby the Yankees to trade/dump him and eat some of the contract. I would trade him for David Wright straight up. Most Yankee fans think I’m nuts and most met fans wouldn’t want A-Rod.
For this season we should shop Melky and another strong minor league arm for a solid Right Fielder with a strong arm. Not looking for a superstar. Delmon Young’s stock is way down and he plays a decent right field but not sure he would be a fit for two reasons. His numbers are dreadful and his head may not be on right. But there has to be a decent right fielder that can fit into the mix and than we can put Swish on bench. Put Gardner and Austin Jackson in a platoon in a month or so from now. And platoon Damon and Nady in Left Field. Our outfield is awful defensively and is not producing offensively!
Erica – newly OPPC
June 24th, 2009 at 1:32 pm
I have been saying for weeks that I love the idea of Swisher batting in the #2 spot. Last night not withstanding, he takes pitches and good be a big asset to that spot in the batting order. His fundamentals may need some work though..
Unfortunately, you can’t teach common sense.
thoughts?
Lohud’s 2009 New York Yankees
1B Nick Swisher
SS Angel Berroa
3B Suzyn Waldman
LF Kim Jones
CF John Sterling
RF Scott Boras
2B Micheal Kay
C Mike Francesa
SP Andy Pettitte
Pitching the 8th inning Jobber Chamberlain
Swisher, Gardner, Melky are 4th outfielders.
Matsui is a DH
Damon is a DH, (bad outfielder and he is hurting)
Posada is a DH in waiting
Brandon, your Igawa lineup cracked me up.
BillyBall-Yes, A-Rod’s an awful fit for this team. After all, we did so well w/o him! And now that he’s in a slump, we’re doing so well!
We need A-Rod.
CF Gardner
SS Jeter
1B Teixiera
P Chamberlain
LF Matsui
C Posada
2B Cano
RF Cabrera
3B Rodriguez
Yes, I am kidding but just a little bit.
—————————–
Gardner
Swisher
Jeter
Teixiera
CC Sabathia
A-Rod
Cano
Matsui
Posada
Cabrera
I am serious.
“Brandon, your Igawa lineup cracked me up.”
I had him leadoff b/c we know he can run.
i like it brandon, since andy pettitte is a starting pitchah. where would you put phil yous?
Mo
June 24th, 2009 at 1:43 pm
I’m trying to figure why the fans here at Lohud think Swish is a complimentary player, when no one else I have spoken to or read thinks so. His OPS and OPS+ place him in the top 5 offensively at his position, and in the top 15 among all outfielders. He has flaws that make it fair to say he is not a top 15 outfielder, but he is certainly playing like a top 30 guy, which makes him at worst an above average starter. The guy has a better career OPS+ than Johnny Damon. He is a starter, but a few baserunning mistakes bunched together have clouded the judgement of some people here.
and dropped fly balls, and mis-read fly balls, and weak throws home, and trying to bunt, and a .220 avg with RISP, and swinging at the first pitch with a guy who can’t throw strikes…..but who is keeping track?
What is clouding peoples judgement in this god like numbers he put up in the beginning of the year and the 2 weeks in June.
trade veterans, get good young kids and fast. trade bait; damon, matsui (if agreeable), posada, or trade any of the good young kids to get good young kids to play LF, CF, SS, and or Catcher.
how bout this?
June 24th, 2009 at 1:30 pm
Swisher
Cano
Damon
Chamberlain
Gardner
Jeter
Arod
Texeira
Posada?
========
Yes, yes!!
“i like it brandon, since andy pettitte is a starting pitchah. where would you put phil yous?”
Ofcourse Yussse wouldn’t be here, he’d get us Bronson Arroyo.
I think Gardner has earned a shot at the top of the lineup.
Moving him up there I think would help the team a lot.
He’s got an over .350 OBP and with his blazing speed I think it could it could give the team the ability to put some runs up on the board early.
The hopeful scenario: Garnder gets on base, swipes a bag and Jeter – batting second, hits a ground ball that instead of being a DP, would advance the runner to third. Then a sac fly or ground ball to the right side gets him in.
The key is of course, is Gardner getting on base. He’s gotten much better at this in the past two months.
He’s virtually unstoppable on the basepaths. Girardi should turn him loose.
It’s not the cure-all for the lineup, of course.
Swisher can’t consistently put the bat on the ball, and hopes for a walk.
On the other hand, Cano and Cabrera hack and swing away at seemingly every pitch. They won’t take a walk and that’s a detriment to the team.
Cano and Cabrera’s on base percentage are tied directly to their ability to get hits and that’s a recipe for disaster. When they’re not hitting, they essentially have no value to the team.
Cabrera is beginning to play like the Melky we all expected, and Cano just doesn’t know how to hit in crucial situations. He is beyond awful with RISP.
The A-Rod we see now may be the A-Rod we’re going to get for the rest of the season and beyond. The team simply won’t make the playoffs woth him hitting .230 or less, given the other limitations in the offense.
Here’s an article from the pinstriped bible:
http://pinstripedbible.mlblogs.com/
I actually agree more or less w/poster letsgoyankees on Swishy’s defense.
I’m completely against playing Matsui in the field. He can barely move and all you’re doing is risking an injury. Then you lose him as the DH when we start playing real baseball again next week.
Also, it’s easy to blame the new Stadium for the dependence on the homerun, but in reality that has been the problem with the Yankees offense for years now. Way too dependent on the long ball, which has been a great part of their postseason futility.
Girardi has already turned Gardner loose. He’s got the green light to steal anytime he wants.
Did Kei Igawa get the win for Scranton last night? Tying the record for wins in Scranton and thus, cementing his place in Triple-A history?
Is it, really? Anyone can look at Rodriguez’s track record and see the glittering numbers. But Rodriguez is almost 34, coming off serious hip surgery, and the validity of his past numbers – as they relate to future performance – is in doubt because of his admitted steroid use. But given his past – a different kind of history than the one Girardi cited – what do the Yankees really know about how Rodriguez achieved those 2007 numbers? Is something close to that season attainable again, or was that a mirage fueled by chemicals?
Lohud’s 2009 New York Yankees
1B Nick Swisher
SS Angel Berroa
3B Suzyn Waldman
LF Kim Jones
CF John Sterling
RF Scott Boras
2B Micheal Kay
C Mike Francesa
SP Andy Pettitte
Pitching the 8th inning Jobber Chamberlain
===========================
What, no Mad Dog Russo?
Satellite radio might not have been the best move for him
Brandon -
Just noticed your “tag” – love it!!
BillyBall-I don’t buy it. We need A-Rod.
“…and dropped fly balls, and mis-read fly balls, and weak throws home, and trying to bunt, and a .220 avg with RISP, and swinging at the first pitch with a guy who can’t throw strikes…..but who is keeping track?”
lets not forget missing the cut off man in situations where a little league player would know which man he had to hit. when i watch swish play sometimes i wish tom hanks was our coach so he can ask which team he plays for when he comes to the dug out before proclaiming “theres no crying.. theres no crying in baseball!!”
We have no outfielders. We need to trade for a quality great defensive decent offensive RF and use Melky as a trade chip. Is there one out there?
If you think that Swisher’s recent poor defense outweighs his excellent hitting, I cannot help you. Just note that he has also made a number of great defensive plays as well, but you only recall the poor ones. Most defensive metrics have him as an average to slightly below average outfielder, not a big deal when he is hitting better than guys like Drew and Markakis at this point.
IMHO, Girardi just needs to shake things up a bit. I for one don’t really care how he does it.
He is all too quick to sit certain guys on the bench when they are hot. And then, he has the patience of the ages playing other guys every day who clearly could benefit in more ways than one from being reminded that the team has other options.
I agree that a force like Gardner on the basepaths is a weapon we need when the team is looking like it has been. If Posada’s hitting is not up to snuff (and it hasn’t been) then sit his 37 year old ass down and give Cervelli more starts, for crying out loud.
A non-producing A-Rod (especially in the #4 spot) is a huge problem, but you can’t blame the malaise of the entire team on him. The question that does needs answering though, is whether his steriod use went on for a much longer period than he has admitted and if what we are seeing now is the hitter he is without them. If so, then his long-term contract was negotiated on false pretenses on his part. I wonder if the team would have any options to nullify that contract? Does anyone know?
June 24th, 2009 at 1:50 pm
Lohud’s 2009 New York Yankees
1B Nick Swisher
SS Angel Berroa
3B Suzyn Waldman
LF Kim Jones
CF John Sterling
RF Scott Boras
2B Micheal Kay
C Mike Francesa
SP Andy Pettitte
Pitching the 8th inning Jobber Chamberlain
***
No Brandon. If there are any girls playing Yankee baseball- it will be me.
Or at least make me bat girl or something
Before this dry spell every yankee starter was in the top 10 in OPS amongst active players. Every starter top 10 in baseball. The team led the league in OPS, Slg% and was top 3-5 in runs scored, BA, and OBP.
They offense was never projected to be that good.
This collective slump is likely them correcting their overperformance from earlier in the year.
What’s unclear right now is what this team will look like offensively moving forward. It’s most likely not as good as it was but not as bad as it is now.
Normally I wouldn’t be all that concerned because this will be temporary.
But the key issue now is Alex. That’s the reason to be concerned. Whatever you think of him this is an entirely different team when he’s performing.
And right now it’s very unclear as to what he’s physically capable of doing.
There’s no way to say it’s steroids either. Just look at him swing the bat and move on the diamond. It’s his hip. He can’t rotate through the ball and has trouble moving laterally.
The offense now if likely correcting and it’ll get better. But without knowing what you’ll get from Alex it’s completely uncertain as to how good this line up will be.
I think they may need to trade for a 3b to give Alex time off to DH.
This from Goldman’s article linked above, perfectly stated:
To which I, your humble servant, will add that there’s not a lot that’s pretty in Swisher’s game, but he’s a productive player and one the Yankees can’t afford to take out of the lineup. Even when his bat went on vacation in May, he still drew 19 walks, making for a .311 on-base percentage despite a .150 batting average. This month he’s hitting .267/.397/.500. You show me a team that benches a guy with those rates and I’ll show you a team that needs its head examined. Swisher has faults, and when a team is not playing well, those faults — the strikeouts, sub-Speaker agility in the outfield, become exaggerated. This happens to every team in a bad place — the urge to punish someone strong, and it frequently seizes on the wrong player. Swisher has been productive against both lefties and righties, has hit well by any reasonable standard, and has left something to be desired only at Yankee Stadium II, where, despite his struggles, he has posted a .373 on-base percentage. He’s part of the solution, not the problem…
I tell you what made this offence go last month was Jeter on base all the time, with Tex and Damon bringing him around with extra base hits. Melky’s hits in the late innings were nice too.
Now, Jeter is still getting on but has killed lots of rallies. Cano the same; he hits, but not with guys on.
Doamon is hurt so he not hitting or catching the ball.
Tex is playing well, but Arod is lost.
Posada was horrid last night and needs to get himself going.
Exactly wait till, although I don’t see the infatuation with Swishers bloated numbers do to his streakiness. If you want to point to his sick April, you should also mention his May. I have never seen an everyday player strike out so much in one month.
not that you were pointing to it….the pinstriped blog was eluding to his rates.
Like I said though, I’m closer to poster Letsgoyankees viewpoint in above article. In the past couple of weeks Swishy has been in a slump. Not to mention he can’t run bases and plays God awful defense. I’m sorry, I don’t care what his UZR is, he’s God awful defensively.
“Cano and Cabrera’s on base percentage are tied directly to their ability to get hits and that’s a recipe for disaster. When they’re not hitting, they essentially have no value to the team.
Cabrera is beginning to play like the Melky we all expected, and Cano just doesn’t know how to hit in crucial situations. He is beyond awful with RISP. ”
Cabrera’s OBP is 60 points higher than his BA at this present time.
He also has a higher OPS+ than Gardner despite having nearly 60 more at bats than Gardner.
I’m trying to remember, but it was Kennedy who got the start (and the loss) in the Bricktown Showdown, right?
If we’re fortunate enough to make it back this year, it MUST MUST MUST be Igawa on the mound for that game.
You play the game to win the game, right?
jeter, posada, and damon are done. Trade 2 of the 3 to contenders.
raymagnetic-Perhaps his OPS+ is higher because he’s had more at bats?
trade for a 3rd baseman & dh arod.
i just hope cc is ok & for the crap of it can we stop making crappy pitchers look like hof pitchers?
even slumping with our pitching we should beat florida & washington with no problem.
enough is enough lets turn this around starting tonight.
it is painfull & i havn’t watched sports center in a week.
Jeter Posada and Damon are all so far from done I can’t even express how wrong that is.
New thread.
“raymagnetic-Perhaps his OPS+ is higher because he’s had more at bats?”
His OPS+ is actually higher because of his slugging percentage.
My point however is that despite Gardner’s recent hot streak and Melky’s recent cold streak Melky has still been more productive than Gardner this year.
Gardner has less at bats so it’s not entirely fair to judge them head to head being that the more you bat the more you’re weaknesses as a hitter will likely be exposed.
raymagnetic-All right.
“Cano and Cabrera’s on base percentage are tied directly to their ability to get hits and that’s a recipe for disaster. When they’re not hitting, they essentially have no value to the team.”
Agreed. Cano is too impatient but also incredibly streaky. If he’s slumping, he contributes almost zero at the plate. Doesn’t work counts and doesn’t walk, mix that in with not hitting and you have dead weight.
raymagnetic
June 24th, 2009 at 2:04 pm
“Cano and Cabrera’s on base percentage are tied directly to their ability to get hits and that’s a recipe for disaster. When they’re not hitting, they essentially have no value to the team.
Cabrera is beginning to play like the Melky we all expected, and Cano just doesn’t know how to hit in crucial situations. He is beyond awful with RISP. ”
Cabrera’s OBP is 60 points higher than his BA at this present time.
He also has a higher OPS+ than Gardner despite having nearly 60 more at bats than Gardner.
====
And if you want to look at lately, during this team-wide slump, Cabrera has drawn 4 BB in his last 13 ABs, but no reason to let reality get in the way of an intractable notion about a player.
Patrick,
If Nick Swisher is an above average starter on this team, its not a playoff team because he is not an above average player.
You overrate OBP. You really do. He is not a consistent run producer for a corner OF.
He isn’t an average defensive OF. He is a below average OF. Watch the games.
Don’t quote me his UZR rating either. That system downgrades Mark Teixeira as a defensive player. You expect me to buy it as an accurate gauge of defense when it shows Tex to be an average defensive player?
All weekend on FL he got bad jumps on balls hit to him. Some of them, routine plays, he had to make leaping catches.
His arm? Not strong and not accurate.
He is a poor baserunner.
For a guy that works counts, explain to me why he is swinging at the first pitch against a guy who couldn’t throw a strike last night? That’s bad hitting for a below average player.
That approach for a so called “above average player” on this team? Inexcusable.
He’s wildly inconsistent in almost every area of the game. Baseball is a game of consistency. That’s not Nick’s game.
If you have other, productive players on the team, you can put up with Swisher. If you need him to be productive, he isn’t and hasn’t been for the last 2+ years as a player.
Anybody can focus on one stat and beat it to death. Problem is, there is more to the game than drawing walks and Nick is below average in almost every other facet of the game.
15 RBI’s in his last 46 games as a starting RF on this team. Really, that’s awful.
That said, he’s not the only problem on the team. They have a LOT of problems. He’s just not one of the solutions.
I like this line up for tonight.
CF Gardner
LF Damon
SS Jeter
1B Teixeria
2B Cano
C Posada
RF Swisher
3B Pena
P Chamberlain
*Alex Rodriguez may get the night off due to 1 day a week off until ASB.
the more you bat the more you’re weaknesses as a hitter will likely be exposed.
====
That is the way it’s always been, as far as I can tell
Im looking at all OF in majors and there is really not a ton out there that we can actually trade for. You have your stars like Suzuki and your young upcoming stars like Markakis and your pending free agents like Holliday. Theres not allot out there to trade for. We may have to consider trading Damon or Matsui (no trade value) and freeing up LF for Swish/Nady Platoon and putting Melky in RF and Gardner/Jackson platoon in CF to sure up defense and than we can place Arod and Posada in a DH type platoon to rest both and start Cervelli and Pena/Ransom or trade for a 3B to protect ARod..
Thank you Pete ,for addressing the personal name callers.
Yankee fans are concerned with the teams present slump,and should be able to voice that concern on a Yankees blog.
~I hope Joe removes Arod out of clean up too.
~Tex has no protection,because Arod is an automatic out,(right now.)
SJ44, and you apparently are too concerned with batting average. (Also, OBP is not just about walks- it is hits and walks. It is about not making outs.) He is in the top 8 at his position in doubles, homers, walks, OBP, slugging. He does not have a ton of RBI’s (although 2 RBI’s away from the top 10, but he is batting lower in the order than any of the guys ahead of him. A team that makes him a platoon player needs their head examined.
yankee lineup tonight should be:
GB7
Nick In SF
Giusseppe Franco
Hammerin Pete Abe
Mark from tampa
Brandon
Stultus Magnus
Wait till they come to OUR house AGAIN
Erica
Randy I – pitching (I don’t do dumb NL rules)
Anyone who thinks that it’s a good idea to have tex bat in front of A-Rod at this point is crazy.
For you guys that want Cano batting second in the line up, I don’t think that is a good idea certainly because he swings at way too many first pitches
Over/Under 4 runs scored by the Yanks tonight
I take the under.
If Arod is still hurting, the Yankees at some point may have to shut him down. He came back really fast from the surgery, which was supposedly just a clean up of the hip to get him through the season. He still needs the complete repair. If he’s concerned about putting his full weight on that hip, he has no power, and is of virtually no use to the offense.
No, Igawa didn’t win last night:
(via http://scrantonwilkesbarre.yankees.milb.com)
[Kei Igawa pitched six innings, allowing two earned runs on six hits, including one home run in the sixth with one on and two out. He said the home run came on a fastball, low and outside.
"Overall I didn't throw poorly," Igawa said through his translator. "I threw decent, over all. My change-up wasn't too good. It just wasn't working. That's something I'll work on in the bullpen before the next game." Igawa still sits on the cusp of tying the all-time Scranton/Wilkes-BArre record for wins in a career.]
I think its time for a little house cleaning.
Yeah, I know good teams and players go through hot and cold streaks, but usually they are streaks, and not the norm! when it becomes the norm and seemingly acceptable, it is not a streak, but a fundamental problem with the players and coaches.
Maybe this team is good enough to make the playoffs, but does anyone truly believe they will play well enough to win it all. I hope they do, but I don’t think they have it in them considering their problems.
Yeah, I know the World Series isn’t everything, but short of that, shouldn’t we be making changes for the future. I am not saying we should give up on this season; it is way to early.
Even if somehow, they can pull it off and go all the way, the problems will remain, and in fact worsen next year. With the contracts expiring on players and the players who shouldn’t have been extended or will be superfluous, why not try and get some value while we can. This could be prospects, or players who can help now and the next few years.
A-Rod is struggling and your solution would be to move Cano UP in the lineup??? You mean the Robinson Cano with the .338 OBP who is swinging at every first pitch he sees in an at-bat??? Yeah, right… Great idea!
Why bat Gardner 8th? He has been as hot as anybody & his speed makes things happen.
Gardner
Jeter
Arod
Tex
Damon/Matsui
Swisher
Cano
Posada
Pitcher
seekyn is right, changes need to occur. but will they be bold enough to do it. this team looks like they just don’t have energy (except gardner, tons of energy).
How can you possibly claim Swisher is a below average player because he swung at the first pitch against a guy struggling with command when future Hall of Famer Derek Jeter did just that to end the game a couple nights ago? Is Jeter a below average player? Swisher works counts tons, you take one isolated at bat and try to claim he’s no good as a result. That’s insane.
I guess the talk didn’t help!Yankees are making them pitch 9 pitches an inning.