A-Rod on the career home runs list
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Jun 26, 2009 
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1. Barry Bonds 762
2. Hank Aaron 755
3. Babe Ruth 714
4. Willie Mays 660
5. Ken Griffey Jr. 619
6. Sammy Sosa 609
7. Frank Robinson 586
8. Mark McGwire 583
9. Harmon Killebrew 573
10. Rafael Palmeiro 569
11. Alex Rodriguez, Reggie Jackson 563
Sad, isn’t it, that five of the top 12 are either admitted or likely PED users?
Babe Ruth is the true HR king. He has the most HR’s per AB.
Congratulations to A-Rod. I hope he hits many more
Babe Ruth is also the greatest player in baseball history. Case closed.
any predictions on when arod will break it?
And Mantle, Mays and Aaron have admitted to using greenies or the like in the past, is that sad too? Ruth only had to face white pitchers, is that sad too? Its all sad, but picking and choosing is just as sad
Ahh, the selective scope of the media…
It is sad. Renders the whole thing meaningless to me. There’s a faux homerun champ and there will be one when Arod passes Bonds.
Babe, Aaron, Mays, Robinson, Reggie & Killer > the remaining clowns
June 11th, 2014
write it down.
doesn’t arod/reggie have 563 hr’s?
sorry steve, but there is no proof that those guys weren’t using the “steroids” of their eras, so you either accept the stats, or you deny everyone
It’s sad I suppose but it still hasn’t been proven that steroids actually help a player hit more home runs.
Right now I think the best pitcher in baseball history is Stahcel Paige. Followed closely by Pedro.
By the way, it’s worth noting that while not counted in HR stats, the Babe faced negroes all the time in the offseason, and homered off them just as easily. He was also struck out once by a female softball pitcher.
Wow, SNY is such a low budget affair compared to anything on YES. Who is this kid interviewing Pete? Holy wet behind the ears.
About the Joba velocity thing. It’s pretty obviously not related to injury. He was consistently hitting 97, 98 in that start vs Cleveland. That’s as good as we’ve seen him look as a starter.
Mostly this year he’s been sitting at 91-94 but that start we really saw an uptick in velocity. If he were injured he wouldn’t be able to do that.
I think it’s more likely that he is lacking leg strength and is a bit out of shape. Also his mechanics definitely need some work. If he remedies those two problems I think we will see an increase in velocity.
The good news is the solutions to these problems (if we are guessing right) just requires extra work by Joba. Nothing so serious as an injury.
Joba is pitching about as well as we can expect given it’s his first full season as a starter. There is definite room for improvement and I am very confident he will be an ace someday. Perhaps someday soon.
I counted 6.
Yeah, but there is proof Arod, Sosa, McGwire, etc WERE using the steroids of the day.
The best pitcher in baseball history is Walter Johnson, that one is a no-brainer.
The Babe was a man among boys. I didn’t see Aaron or Bonds hitting more Home Runs in a year than an entire team.
“Babe Ruth is the true HR king. He has the most HR’s per AB.”
No he doesn’t. That’s McGuire. Bonds is second. Ruth is third.
If you want to disqualify McGuire and Bonds that’s fine. Then it’s Ruth on home runs per at bat.
But if you want to use home runs per at bat as the meausure then you’d also have to agree that Jim Thome and Adam Dunn are positioned to be the second and third best home run hitters in history.
You’d also have to conclude that Ralph Kiner was a much better home run hitter than Ted Williams, Mickey Mantle, Jimmy Foxx and much, much better than Willie Mays and Hank Aaron.
Rate stats have become over rated in many ways. Longevity and the ability to stay on the field really do matter. They aren’t everything but they really are a valuable skill.
Patrick-I wouldn’t be so sure about that. Walter Johnson is as good a pick as anybody, but tell that to Lefty Grove, Bob Gibson, Satchel Paige, Pedro, and Christie Mathewson.
There are very few no brainer’s when it comes to baseball history. Best pitcher is certainly not one of them and I doubt I would choose a pitcher from that era, the game was just so completely different. Wlater Johnson’s numbers are insane, though.
“Wow, SNY is such a low budget affair compared to anything on YES.”
It would seem SNY put their money into getting good announcers and everything else be damned. YES has done more or less the opposite.
jennifer, no one has really officially suspected junior as a PED user. It this point it would not suprise me one iota however.
Well said, Zack. The steroid era is no doubt tainted. But PED’s were in use well before steroids infiltrated the game. Greenies were taken with the same spirit as roids and HGH and are now a banned substance. To say players who admit to taking greenies are morally superior to those who admit to taking roids is unfair. From a moral point of view, a PED is a PED.
Bill Simmons actually wrote a great piece on how there really is only a five year period where the game was untainted (by racism, PEDs, dead balls, artificially high mounds, etc.) He chose the late eighties and early 90′s. I think he made a pretty good case.
CB-I seriously didn’t know Mcguire and Bons passed Ruth.
However I still say Ruth (and I do disqualify Mcguire and Bonds, but for the sake of arguement I don’t). Ruth dominated the league in a manner never seen before and never even come close to since. And he did it for a long time.
Yes sab, you are correct. 563 for A-rod and Reggie.
Good announcers compared to YES? They used the same formula as the Yanks, took washed up ex-players as their color. Kay might be a self described blow hard, but he is hardly intolerable.
That kid interviewing Pete was a joke. Very uneasy with the camera and made numerous pronunciation mistakes. Gee, I could have did that.
Game thread up. But I like this discussion so let’s stay here.
sad how??? ridiculous
For six seasons, Sandy Koufax was the best pitcher the game has ever seen.
it was the “steroid” era…so get off your high horses and take it for what it was!
Good point on Koufax….and Nolan Ryan was the most dominant pitcher the game has ever seen. 7 no-hitters and I think 10 or 12 2-hitters…..
I mean 1-hitters
“sorry steve, but there is no proof that those guys weren’t using the “steroids” of their eras, so you either accept the stats, or you deny everyone”
I don’t buy this argument at all. It washes away degrees of difference that really do matter.
What we saw in terms of the distortion of the game at the upper ends of performance during the steroid era was remarkable.
76 home runs? Guys hitting home runs at rates of less than 1 per 10.
Those are complete outliers.
Just because everything is tainted doesn’t mean that the degree of taint is the same. It’s not.
Forgot Koufax.
Ryan was a pitcher that was totally unhittable when on and who walked the ballpark when not on.
“Patrick-I wouldn’t be so sure about that. Walter Johnson is as good a pick as anybody, but tell that to Lefty Grove, Bob Gibson, Satchel Paige, Pedro, and Christie Mathewson. ”
I would but Paige, Mathewson and Grove are dead. I guess I’d have to find their closest remaining relatives or perhaps perform a seance. Do you know Pedro’s and Gibson’s phone numbers? I’ll call and tell them immediately.
All joking aside, yeah those guys are good but none of them touch Walter Johnson.
“Ruth dominated the league in a manner never seen before and never even come close to since. And he did it for a long time.”
Look I agree with you. Ruth was the greatest ever.
But his home run rate per at bat is not the reason why.
It’s not an argument one statistic can make. I also think it short changes Hank Aron’s accomplishments.
On home runs per at bat Ralph Kiner and Jim Thome are much better than many legends of the game. And I’m sorry there’s no way I’ll believe that Ralph Kiner was a superior home run hitter to Mickey Mantle or Ted Williams.
“For six seasons, Sandy Koufax was the best pitcher the game has ever seen.”
Martinez had a 5 year period with the Expos and Boston that was superior to Koufax’s similarly short term of dominance.
Yes, very sad, and I for one hope that none of them ever make it to the Hall of Fame. I also hope that the rest of the positive tests are released and none of them make it as well…
If you count greenies (which are a PED according to baseball and will earn you a nice suspension today) there is one name on that list that was clean. Babe did it with beer and hot dogs!
CB-You’re right. I messed up on that one. I thought he was at the top, which he wasn’t.
I will say that with my substantial amount of research gathered on Ruth, I would say with maybe 90% certainty that were he around today Ruth would absolutely have juiced.
“Nolan Ryan was the most dominant pitcher the game has ever seen. 7 no-hitters and I think 10 or 12 2-hitters”
That’s a common misconception. He had several amazing games and struck out a ton of dudes, but he walked a ton also an dis in no way the most dominant or greatest pitcher ever. Not even close to it really.
Patrick-I bet if I tried I could hawk Pedro’s phone number.
Seriously, there are so many good choices for best pitcher ever.
“Good announcers compared to YES?”
No. Great announcers compared to YES.
The degrees of taint many refer to is highly subjective. I’m completely in agreement with Observer283. Illegal amphetemines on game day are MORE of a performace enhancer than the use of steroids over time.
I’m not a fan of any of it, but I’m strongly opposed to the hypocrisy and ignorance that many use to claim steroid users are the worst offenders in the history of earth — and only in baseball by the way — while all other PED users/abusers are virtually ignored.
Someday I would love to see about a dozen current Hall of Famers take a stand to end the witch hunts against the players of the “setroid era” and acknowledge their own use of illegal PEDs. That might the only way to get past this stuff.
Unfortunately instead we get phonies like Ryne Sandberg takintg a stand against Sammy Sosa now, but he had no problem with Sammy making his life easier (and his career more successful) while batting behind him.
People don’t realize it, but the biggest celebrity the country has ever seen was not Elvis or Jackson, it was Ruth. His popularity was that of a minor god.
I have no issue/w any of the YES announcers but Kay and Conie, who bore me. Singleton and Flaherty I like a lot. Conie I respect but he repeats himself too much. Kay I don’t get.
“Martinez had a 5 year period with the Expos and Boston that was superior to Koufax’s similarly short term of dominance.”
Definitely, and Pedro did it in the steroid era. One of the most impressive peaks in baseball history, for sure.
“I have no issue/w any of the YES announcers but Kay and Conie, who bore me. Singleton and Flaherty I like a lot. Conie I respect but he repeats himself too much. Kay I don’t get.”
There’s defnitely a lot of broadcast crews far worse than what the Yankees are offering. I like Cohen much more than Kay and I don’t think anybody anywhere is as good as Darling.
“Martinez had a 5 year period with the Expos and Boston that was superior to Koufax’s similarly short term of dominance.”
Pedro was amazing during that stretch of time but he didn’t throw that many innings over that stretch.
If you were to look at runs saved above average or runs saved above replacement rather than ERA+ Pedro’s seasons look much different.
Josh Kalk did a great analysis of this that I no longer available since he took all of his stuff off the internet.
But as recall when he looked at runs saved above average Pedro’s best season of all time was 9th best. Koufax had a few that were considerably better.
Looking at rate stats alone whether it’s ERA or FIP or whatever penalizes pitchers who have the skill of throwing more innings.
Dice-K had an era of 2.9 last year. Roy Halladay 2.78. The difference in their ERA’s doesn’t even remotely reflect their value given that Dice K could never work deep into games and Halladay nearly always did.
And every inning the starter throws is one less the nearly always less effective middle relief needs to.
who does griffey get a free pass?
I think many of you have seen Field of Dreams one too many times. These are professional athletes and if injecting steroids or popping pills is the difference between $2 mil and year and $10 mil a year, then the choice is obvious. There has never been any “purity” in baseball, and there never will be. I watch baseball because it’s entertaining, I’m not looking for heroes or upright citizens. Ty Cobb was an unbearable bigot but he didn’t take steroids, so does that mean he’s a better person than A-Rod?
An interesting thread. Ruth clearly WAS baseball in the 20s and no one was even close in terms of celebrity. Plus he was a great pitcher first, and a larger-than-life figure. I always thought Ryan was overrated but am amazed at his longevity. A fun factoid is that he spent his entire career with all four 1961-62 expansion franchises. Also, he pitched two innings in the 1969 Series as a kid, then pitched until 1994 without ever getting back to the Series. The Koufax-Martinez comparisons break down in that Koufax pitched an ungodly number of complete games in a 4-man rotation, for one of the worst-hitting mini-dynasties ever. He wrecked his arm going the distance in 2-1 wins.
Wow…over 40% of the people listed there are admitted, confirmed, or “highly suspect” steriod users. No insightful commentary to add…just makes me sad to see the sport tainted like that.
I wouldn’t call those guys ‘ped users’, I’d just call them ‘ahead of their time’…. just sayin
You forgot Mays. Greenies count more than steroids in my book.
I agree, mr. max. Why isn’t there such an uproar about greenies?
Actually Pete, 6 of those, and A-Roid shares a slot with him.
He did the same stuff Arnold and Stallone used.
Take a peek at his growth from 1981 through the end of his career where he hung around Canseco and McGwire…
I thought the steroid effect was not to make OK hitters into great hitters, but to make good hitters who had “warning-track” fly-balls into home run hitters. This seems to be borne out in the case of Ortiz, and we’ll see about Manny and A-….
You’re counting Hank Aaron and Mays right?
right?
oh wait you’re probably just pushing an idiot sports media agenda which glorifies past “heroes” to appeal to aging baby boomers
Pete,
I knew Sandy Koufax, Sandy Koufax was a friend of mine. Nolan Ryan was no Sandy Koufax.( With apologies to Lloyd Bentson).
All the excuses in the world do not cover up the PED use. Put Mickey Mantle back where he belongs.
it is sad.
bonds above ruth and aaron is positively sickening though.
Pete,
Surprised there has been so much gushing on YES about A-Rod tying Reggie given that 1) A-Rod is/was a dirty player, rendering his numbers basically meaningless as far as history is concerned and 2) Reggie’s comments a few weeks back to the effect of not believing A-Rod deserves a place in the record books because he is/was a dirty player. I’m very surprised people forgot what Reggie said so quickly.
Incredibly sad. Names like Brooks Robinson and Reggie Jackson mean legend. These new people added to the list don’t have what legends have. You won’t see people like a.rod or barry bonds at special tournaments or sports legennds challenge.
Bonds, Sosa, McGwire, Palmero, A-Rod do not belong on that list. Hank Aaron ins the homerun king, and Roger Maris is the single season homerun leader.
Albert Pujols will end up with the most home runs in his career when it is over
Clearly Hank Aaron is the home run king. Bonds obviously used steroids.