Wrapping it up from Citi Field
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- June
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A few late-night tidbits for you:
Derek Jeter: He spent the game in the clubhouse coughing. He was sick yesterday and worse today. Joe Girardi indicated he was questionable for tomorrow.
CC Sabathia: He had no idea he had a perfect game over four innings. The reason was because he was focusing so much on his mechanics and footwork in the wake of the biceps tendinitis that knocked him out of the game last Sunday. “I was just trying to work on my delivery and make sure I was getting the ball down because I had so many days off. I was feeling real good,” Sabathia said.
He was much more happier about his RBI single and sore that he didn’t get another one.
Brett Gardner: The numbers don’t lie. He is hitting .387 in his last 27 games, raising his season average to .303. His OBP, a much more important stat for him, is .374. That makes him a very dangerous and effective player.
“He can beat you with his legs and he does have some power,” Girardi said. “He can create runs is what he can do — as well as anyone on our club.”
GGBG, Girardi said, has earned regular playing time. Especially with Melky coming back to earth.
Alex Rodriguez: He had a long talk with the vaunted Dr. Philippon today, who counseled Alex to do less pre-game work, particularly with his swing. The hope is that will make his bat quicker. Like some pitchers, he only has so many bullets in the gun as he deals with the hip injury and recovery. He is mashing the ball to center and right-center and drawing walks. A-Rod is Rodriguez is 6 of 17 with two homers and seven RBI in the last five games.
Reggie Jackson: Mr. October flew in from California to see A-Rod pass him. “Didn’t have to wait long,” he quipped.
Reggie is friendly with Alex. But at the same time, it has to be tough to see a player who used steroids pass you on the all-time home run list. But Jackson gave his buddy a pass. “I’m a fan of Alex’s. Alex is a friend,” Jackson said. “These guys are all my friends. The negativity that surrounds steroids is certainly not something that I carry over to him. I do appreciate the fact that he admitted his mistakes. From here we move forward.”
Kate Hudson: All over SNY, I was told. Come write a guest post, Kate.
Citi Field: Even if you’re a Yankees fan, come check the place out. It’s a much more intimate facility than Yankee Stadium and a good place to catch a game. This is a ballpark, not a stadium. But the outfield is huge — too huge — and the fences are too high. They got a little too cute with all the quirks in the dimensions. But the flow of the place for fans is better and they do the scoreboard right. There is also a dedicated out-of-town scoreboard in left field. I like it a lot. It’s a lot like the park in Pittsburgh, which is one of the best in the game.
Thanks to everybody for reading today. We had nearly 1,700 comments on the blog, which is just great. No better fans than baseball fans.
Catch you tomorrow.
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on Saturday, June 27th, 2009 at 12:57 am by Peter Abraham.
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Chad Jennings
Sam Borden
“much more happier” are you kidding me?
Classy words from Reggie, Brett is just on a ridiculous streak. Kate Hudson so needs to guest blog
Pete;
Thanks for the good coverage today; between you and Gameday, med school in Australia has been much more enjoyable. The best, by far, Yankees blog on the web. Not even close.
Cheers
This was my first time to citi field and i enjoyed the game but more intimate? It was a great place to watch a game but it is the subway seires in front a sellout crowd. I thought the concourse was kind of a mess. moving in it with crowds was much more difficult than the concourse that surrounds yankee stadium. The only thing i hate about the new yankee stadium is the half empty legends seats. I’ll take a sellout in the Bronx over any stadium in the league.
As long as GGBG is a Yankee, he needs to start every game at Citifield.
With Nady out
, there will be no shortage of opportunities to get Gardner and melky, our best two defensive OF into games.
So happy for Brett Gardner. Warms the heart to see the young kids do well.
Too bad Derek was feeling bad on his birthday. At least we know what the party favors will be wearing. Nurse uniforms.
You could see Jeter coughing on the base paths yesterday. Hopefully the illness doesn’t make its way through the whole clubhouse.
Good job by Pena of filling in, too.
CC really looks like a hitter at the plate.
Ben Schpigiel’s story on the game and his blog entry are must reads.
From the time’s Bats blog:
About a month ago, while chatting with David Wright about Citi Field’s roomy dimensions, I asked him whether he expected to hit any home runs to right-center field. Unequivocally, he said he did not.
“I’ll say that right now,” Wright said. “I better go down the lines. It’s not me personally. The other team has to do the same thing.”
That’s how impressive Alex’s home run was tonight. Wright didn’t think any right handed hitter could take the ball deep to right center at Citi Field all season. And that’s what Alex did with a bad hip. Just amazing.
And here was Shpigel’s take on the met’s three error second inning:
“Pain may be an apt description of what it was like for the Mets and their fans to watch the second inning. As in any good horror movie, it took time for the carnage to accrue.”
That’s classic.
I’m only inserting the link to the blog post as the filter here won’t let two links through.
http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/.....ory-twice/
“But at the same time, it has to be tough to see a player who used steroids pass you on the all-time home run list.”
___
I think it’s much easier for Reggie and his “clean” cohorts (many of whom probably did greenies”) to view the PED situation in terms of an era rather than to narrowly focus on the transgressions of any particular player, especially as Reggie says, one who admits it.
When it comes to making mistakes, there is usually redemption for those who seek it. People who lie to your face, otoh…not so much.
another yankee prospect bust. gardner stink ellsbury is so much better!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Not..
yeah the yanks buy all there palerys!!!! Not..
pena, cervelli. melky, gardner, etc..
these guys are young and can play they are no longer or becoming less of the DH doniate yanks of a few years ago.
sit swisher if Melky and Gardner are playing well………….
http://i42.tinypic.com/2n8u7gi.png
I find this pic quite interesting.
impressive right center blast by AROD and gotta feel bad for Jeter on his bday, sick and not being able to play but hopefully he’s better by Sunday…..I wonder if Melky has been the same since that shoulder injury but great job by Gardner tonight
Gardner: .303/.374/.441
GOD or the alias Ellsbury : .306/.354/.399
Brandon,
Check out this sports science video. Gotta watch until the end. You’ll see how truly awful Shaq is at FT shooting. And truly good the machine is.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....r_embedded
It seems like because the media really botched the whole steroids issue when it was rampant in the late 90s, they are the people who care the most about steroids now and seem intent on making up for lost time.
The vast majority of fans couldn’t care less about steroids now unless they personally don’t like the player involved.
GF,
You hear a lot of sports talk guys saying that Sosa & mcguire saved baseball that wild year.
15,000 people (avg. attendance 7,000) showed up in Albequerque (sp?) to watch manny’s rehab.
It’s craziness, but fans love the long ball.
I’ve always loved what Gardner brings to the table because he is undoubtedly one of the five fastest players in the game.
It remains to be seen whether Gardner can be an everyday player, but I do know that Melky isn’t an everyday player.
Perhaps the team is best suited juggling all three of these guys (including Swisher) the rest of the season.
The great thing about it is that the bench is a whole lot more productive these days because everyone is contributing when they get their chance.
GF,
If melky can consistently hit the way he was hitting before his shoulder injury, he’s an everyday player. He fueled a lot of those come from behind/walkoff wins.
You hear a lot of sports talk guys saying that Sosa & mcguire saved baseball that wild year.
————
They did save baseball. There’s no question about it.
But now both guys have been in isolation for a long time. I don’t know if McGwire has even made a public appearance (or at least an interview) since his infamous performance in front of Congress.
m June 27th, 2009 at 1:35 am
GF,
If melky can consistently hit the way he was hitting before his shoulder injury, he’s an everyday player. He fueled a lot of those come from behind/walkoff wins.
————
That’s possible, but I was expecting him to come way back down to earth anyways whether he had the shoulder issue or not.
I’m one of those guys who thought his first 1,500 ABs in the majors were much closer to the real Melky than his first 150 ABs of 2009.
Brandon-
Please, more photos of Kate.
No possibility of Nady in the mix does give Girardi some room for juggling.
Ya gotta like what Brett brings to the table but I’m not convinced yet he won’t be exposed if he plays full time.
Melky has the advantage of being able to play all 3 OF positions so his playing time could come from spelling everyone and still getting 4-5 days a week in the field.
GF,
I want to say that mac showed up at the Cardinal ST? He made some kind of appearance for sure.
Back to the outfield. Damon will probably resist, but I’d keep him out of the OF close to once a series. Hideki, Posada, and Damon can see time at DH. Unfortunately, Alex would get DH time, too. So maybe that doesn’t work.
Anyway, it’d keep Damon’s legs and arm “fresh”.
m, that’s just wrong, but I swear the whole video is a blur after the 2 bikini girls for me.
Buudy B. I’ll see if I find more from tonight’s game.
Brandon,
What’s more impressive, the bikini girls or the fact that Franken-shaq-aka-da-machine went 80% blindfolded? And those hands!
Shaq must not have heard the correct adage, “Perfect practice makes perfect”
When I went to my first Yankees game this season, my first thought was that it was a great place to hang out at, but not a great place to watch a game. I was at the game tonight with my brother. He likes Citifield much better than Yankee Stadium. The Yankees need to work on the stadium over the offseason to make it a more enjoyable experience to watch a game. I miss the old Yankee Stadium for that reason.
I’m new here. What does GGBG stand for?
Chris,
It’s a moniker that Pete gave Gardner. Gritty Gutty Brett Gardner. ‘Little Engine That Could’ works, too.
gritty gutty brett gardner
CT: you can’t go home again.
Thanks Brandon and m.
Rooster Cogburn, True Grit.
Cool. Didn’t see that Pete’s twitters update on the blog. Any chance you can get John Henry’s to post as well?
CB,
Thanks for the heads up on the Schpigel stuff. Here’s a link to his story, which is great:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06.....ref=sports
I wish he and Kepner could switch beats – Kepner has been overdoing the ARod bashing lately.
I know Garner had a good night, but Pena also deserves some credit too.
Gardner*
“much more happier” ???
El Nino was awesome. Showing Girardi that he’s still there. I like that kid. He’s speedy too, did you see him rounding those bases?
I knew keeping the number 11 road Yankees jersey I got when Sheff signed would pay off some day. Props to Brett Gardner, great game tonight.
I don’t know. I went to Yankee Stadium last week with the kids and we loved it! we were in the Left Field bleachers and had a great time.
Don’t really care for the Big Ego, but it was really cool of him to fly in to watch Alex pass him. The last line in this quote is great:
“Judgment on him will be passed in his next 8 ½ years with the Yankees,” Reggie said, choosing to let those questions play out over the next decade instead of trying to answer them tonight. “I wanted to enjoy the night tonight, watch my friend hit No. 564.”
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/blo.....l5gx&C
I went to journalism school with Ben Shpigel. Sort of my claim to fame.
I guess some or everyone already know but sir Sidney P. can still make headlines:
http://kansascity.royals.mlb.c.....mp;c_id=kc
It was a diet pill….
And I was so happy for our Dutch team making it that far.
Citi Field is intimate in very few places… and certainly not if you sit behind 1st or 3rd base. Fans don’t sit as close as they do in Philadelphia, Cleveland or Baltimore. And the grandstand is more rounded, so the seating “bowl” flares away from the field. Sitting in the middle or upper levels behind third base, you feel too far from the action. The outfield distances can be fixed. The “non-snug” base lines can’t. Someone didn’t do their home work as the park was planned.
One thing more — based on the experience at Thursday afternoon’s game — concessions are less efficient than at Shea. Where are the little carts that served ice cream or upscale beers? And the Caesars club restaurant did not have enough hot dogs ready to serve a 2nd inning crowd.
JMZ June 27th, 2009 at 2:40 am
I went to journalism school with Ben Shpigel. Sort of my claim to fame.
————
Sadly, my claims to fame aren’t much to get excited about either.
My grandparents and Michael Jackson’s grandparents were very good friends and lived down the street from each other many years ago. I remember spending quite a bit of time over there as a kid but I never met any of the famous Jacksons.
And perhaps more exciting is that Gregg Popovich (coach of the 4-time World Champion San Antonio Spurs) is my second cousin.
His mother and my maternal grandmother were sisters. My grandmother passed almost 30 years ago but his mother is still alive and kicking.
I haven’t seen or talked to Gregg in over 25 years, so we’re not exactly close.
And I’m not even a basketball fan.
When will pete consider that hank, mays, jackson used greenies and STFU?
seriously what an idiot
Pete,
In the last thread/post, you said:
“Cervelli is 0 for 4? I thought he had to play every day because he was so much better than Posada?”
Why the Cervelli hating, Pete? I can’t remember anyone on this board ever suggesting once that Cervelli should be in the lineup for his bat. If you think I’m mistaken, perhaps you could provide us with an example or two?
Talk about sour grapes….
agreeing with richie
there is nothing so liberating as ….
-telling the truth, and
-saying ‘i’m sorry’
it makes u feel so good inside, and it totally disarms those who r upset with u.
“Brett Gardner: The numbers don’t lie.”
Funny when Brett was slumping you said forget the numbers he brings something to the team.(Paraphrased) The kid is hot and is fun to watch. When you pick a favorite, you are loyal to the end. I’m sure your favorites appreciate it.
Gardner is great in lead off.My hope is Jeter gets some rest.
Joe had a great line up. help notice
I’m glad gardner had a good game.He bring a lot to this team.But remember that he hit 3 bloopers last night.It’s not like he’s crushing the ball.Melky isn’t playing like he did in may but he’s still very young and hitting 290 this year
Hit Citi Field for the first time as well. Definitely liked it more than NYS — the use of color in the stadium and the concourses (even though they were somewhat more crowded) makes a huge difference. The Citi concourses felt like — a city. Almost like being in a really nice subway station or an ironworks. NYS has too much grey/white/concrete. I do think, however, that they have overdone the signage. Not sure if there is actually more than NYS, but it is concentrated between the foul poles in the outfield and looks ridiculous.
Rog, Gardy DID hit two balls with authority – the triple and the HR. Three other bloops: reminiscent of our ol’ hitting star [from the Highlander days] Willie Keeler. “Hitting them where they ain’t” led Wee Willie to the Hall of Fame
Pete,
I liked Citifield when I went there. The dedicated out-of-town scoreboard is better than what the Yankees have. It’s what it’s supposed to be. Nondescript but has the information people want. The Yankees’ is certainly prettier, but you don’t have all the scores at once.
I found the concourse at YS to be brighter and roomier than the one at Citifield. One of the things that complicates moving around Citifield – well, two – is that bridge, which is a really nice feature, but not wide enough; and the walking traffic is really crazy because of the Taste of the City food area. The food area itself is terrific. And 2 hours before game time it is navigable. But as you get closer to game time, you can’t move in either direction.
Both stadiums (stadia?) have their good and bad features, but each is grand in its own right and the City has two first-class sports/entertainment venues.
Nice game for GGBG last night, wasn’t it? Loved the look on Cervelli’s face when he hit that long drive to the warning track later in the game, which was caught.
When the Yankees play well, there is no better team. They need consistency.
I am curious to see what is going to transpire in light of Nady’s season-ending injury. Do they still think they don’t need to make a move, because Gardner has heated up? Do you simply rotate Gardner, Swisher, Melky & Damon? Or do you try to find another OF bat?
And will they really send Cervelli down? Molina is a great backup catcher and I love the guy. But Cervelli is younger and quicker, and at least right now he seems to be a good situational hitter – his avg. with RISP is considerably higher than overall avg. (They talked about it last night, either during the game or post-game – I was so tired, I don’t really remember when exactly.)
It looks like it might be a nice day today – no rain or clouds. We’ll be out tonight, so I won’t see the game.
Good luck AJ and Let’s Go Yankees!
When Melky was flourishing in April & May, he credited it to his regular playing time. If he loses his full time job to Gardner,you wonder how it will affect his psyche. Brett is on a hot streak and I’m all for riding it out. But Gardner has looked so overmatched at times that I have my doubts about how long he can sustain it. He’s hit .355 with a .412 obp in 13 Inter League games. He’s hit .214 with a .200 obp in 8 games against Boston this year. We’ll see.
I do think that the Yanks are better right now with Melky and Gardner in the lineup and Swisher on the bench. Hopefully Swisher handles being a bench player for the good of the team. Nobody ever said handling these situations is easy for either the player or the manager. I dont envy Joe Girardi for having to make these decisions.
Pete – take a lesson from Mr. October. It is time to move on.
Gardner definitely surpassing expectations. But if you look at him coming up as a player, surpassing expectations is almost expected. Monster night for him.
Pena and Cervelli doing better than expected at the plate too.
Kate Hudson. She was on a film set in my old neighborhood about 7 or 8 years ago. I was walking home from work and she walked past me on the way to her trailer. She’s pretty on film but her looks are just stunning in real life. She’s also smaller/shorter than you’d think after seeing her on screen too.
I would like to see more of Gardner in center and Melky in right over the rest of the season since Nady is done. I think that getting all three of them(Swisher is the third) some days off will keep them fresh and help keep them from getting exposed too much. I don’t think that any of the three are 155+ games per season players. They all have significant weaknesses, but managing 2 playing spots amongst the three of them can possibly mask some of that and put them in the best positions to succeed when they do play.
Brett Gardiner hit one out of Citifield last night. A feat that David Wright seems almost incapable of accomplishing.
From MLB-Rumors-R-Us: The Elias FA Rankings for a players for those interested.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/16831006/Rankings-062609
to be fair Brett’s hot streak has come against AAAA teams- the national league least
Just the Yanks luck… Roy Halladay announced he is ready to pitch again on Monday. That puts him on schedule to face the Yanks next Saturday.It will be his 2nd start this year against the Yanks. Boston has missed him in both series they have played against Toronto.
Burnett referred to Sabathia as “Big C” and said that Sabathia preferred to lead by example. But if Sabathia thinks it is necessary to offer some verbal wisdom, Burnett said he will do it.
“People listen,” Burnett said. “I mean, why wouldn’t you?”
Lou Cucuzza, Jr., a Yankees clubhouse manager, helps coordinate when players autograph items for other players. A player usually prefers to do it once per series. When Cucuzza asked Sabathia to pick a good time to sign the assortment of baseballs and jerseys, Sabathia chose any time.
“He told me, ‘Just bring them over when you get them,’ ” Cucuzza said. “He said, ‘I’ll sign stuff between innings if you need me to.’ ”
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06.....f=baseball
Time to move on? Not like it’s been years since AR’s great revelation. People take time to recover from disappointments, and this was a very recent one. I’d think they get at least one season of disgruntlement, not 15 minutes…
Since I never liked or trusted AR, I felt no particular pangs of disappointment and am not especially disgruntled. In fact he looks almost human now as I watch him struggle with physical awkwardness (wondering why nobody mentions this much, but last night it was especially obvious in the field). I know what it’s like to not be able to get your body to do what it’s always done before, so there’s some instant empathy there. And he even seems to have a different expression on his face at times now that he can’t pretend to be perfect. I’m not glad that he’s suffering, but since we all get our share of that at some point, I am glad that he is taking it more like a man and less like a robot.
For the melky bashers out there, check Melky’s numbers for the last 7 games:
AVG .286
OBP .412
SLG .429
OPS .841
That includes 2 2Bs and 3 BBs.
Gardner is hotter, but Melky is definitely not slumping.
Rishi,
After years of Randy Johnson, Gary Sheffield and even A Rod’s personality, it’s so refreshing to have a star like CC on the Yankees. He’s an easy guy to root for, something the Yankees desperately needed this year especially. The transition to the new ballpark has been far from smooth for most fans. CC provides the Yankees with something very positive to focus on.
JRVJ
Melky had a bad 3 weeks. He’s hitting .212 in June. But he’s certainly rebounding from it now.
They say speed thrills but you can’t steal 1st base. When Gardner bloops the ball over SS and 2d base it’s a lot like stealing 1st base. I love the idea of him banging the ball hard in front of home plate and running like the devil – he’s like a dragster. By the time the ball comes down off that Baltimore Chop, Gardner has the ‘chute out and is slowing past 1st.
The book on Gardner so far in his career is that he takes a while to adjust but eventually he masters the next level. While he’s made the most of his opportunities so far and his numbers are creeping up, his defense is still a question – his speed makes up for some tracking errors and his arm is at best adequate. But he’s intriguing enough to stay with as long as his production justifies. When was the last time the Yankees had a weapon like this? Mickey Rivers, Knobby? If Gardy gets close to either, there will be fun baseball in The Bronx again.
Maybe that’s the thing about Gardy, he’s fun to watch. The last thing you would ever call the Yankees is the Fun Bunch despite all of this season’s pies, Swisher-isms and last minute walk-offs. Watching a guy run faster than anybody else is just plain fun, almost as much fun as knowing that the opposing manager is keeping his eye on when Gardy’s up next.
watching the gaem on SNY’s “fast forward” I will say, it’s better than trying to watch the enture rebroadcast…that can get painful
Funny it didn’t occur to me to mention Damon along with Knobby and Rivers. Johnny is fast but the Yanks didn’t have Damon in his prime. So maybe it’s the aging legs thing; we know Johnny version 09 has limits Gardy doesn’t. Not a knock on Damon at all. He’ll put up some excellent numbers and he’s a main cog in the offense. I just don’t feel the same “what’s going to happen?” electricity when he’s up as opposed to Gardy.
murphydog,
Don’t forget Rickey Henderson, although the other 3 are nowhere near his class, maybe that’s why you left him out.
RE: SNY
That is the way I had to watch the game last night. I can’t tell the difference between Hernandez’ and Darling’s voices. I thought there were only two guys in the booth until they did a camera shot of the three of them talking. Still couldn’t tell the difference after that, and I was even listening for it.
it drives me crazy that some folks can’t compliment Gardner w/o taking a jab at the Melk Man. I love Gardner because he represents the kind of player I feel like the Yankees have been missing for a long time…but Gardner AND Melky are important parts of the team and have both contributed and will continue to contribute together through out the season. It’s like the guys that love Cervelli (count me in) that think that Cervelli doing his job well means that Jorge is done as a catcher (count me out)…
It certainly is fun to watch Gardner run. On a team like the Yankees that isnt particulaly athletic, he adds another dimension.
Like Doreen mentioned earlier, it will be interesting to see how Cashman reacts to losing Nady for the rest of the season. Does he take a giant leap of faith and decides that a Melky/Gardner/Damon/Swisher rotation is enough to win a World Series? Or does he make a move at the trading deadline. My bet is that he makes a move, depending upon who is available.
Mark in Tampa:
Wow. What a brain cramp. You’re 100% right about Henderson, of course. I guess I didn’t think of him because I was thinking about championship Yankee teams. (and because I’m a little behind in ramping up my caffeine level this a.m.) Rickey was an offensive force to be sure. And as weird as the day is long.
“it drives me crazy that some folks can’t compliment Gardner w/o taking a jab at the Melk Man.”
Completely agree. It’s not a zero-sum game. They are both important pieces at this time.
If both guys are hitting well, Gardner is the more dangerous player between he and Melky because he can instantly turn singles into doubles and doubles into triples.
The only reason Gardner wasn’t standing on second base with a double for his third hit was because Sabathia was chugging in front of him.
He might’ve hit for the cycle last night otherwise.
Good news, bad news night for me last night.
Good news: Yankees win. Bad news: the nephew didn’t win the Johnny Bench Award. Given the last month of his life though, it’s not the worst thing that can happen to the kid.
Me thinks Buster Olney wrote Arod’s career obituary a little early. I hope the guys on the beat don’t fall into the same trap.
Don’t make this a Gardner v. Melky debate. Both guys have talents that can help the team. Frankly, the Yankees need both of their contributions, given Nady’s injury.
Mark in Tampa “RE: SNY
That is the way I had to watch the game last night. I can’t tell the difference between Hernandez’ and Darling’s voices. I thought there were only two guys in the booth until they did a camera shot of the three of them talking. Still couldn’t tell the difference after that, and I was even listening for it.”
I totally agree – I was out last night and they were showing the SNY feed…I had no idea who was who…
Reggie can’t be all that fond of ARod, he spent the game in the clubhouse with Jeter, saw the big boom on TV not in person.
Rickey stories are almost like Yogi stories. I love the one where he goes up to Olerud after watching him play the field wearing his batting helmet. He says to him that it is weird to do that, but he played with another guy in Toronto who did it as well. Olerud stares at him open-mouthed because that guy in Toronto was him, and they played together for something like 3 years!
The most encouraging thing about A Rod’s recent at bats is that he isn’t puling everything. A Rod’s batting average is about to go up about 50 points. He’s not a .220 hitter , even with one leg. This could be fun.
That ‘85 Yankee team had some major firepower in that lineup.
Rickey Henderson
Willie Randolph
Don Mattingly
Dave Winfield
Don Baylor
Mike Pagliarulo
Two Hall of Famers and another one well on his way to the Hall before his chronic back problems.
Their pitching was decent, but they could mash with anyone.
That was a really good team and they thumped KC all season. Too bad Toronto was just a little better.
SJ44
June 27th, 2009 at 9:33 am
Good news, bad news night for me last night.
Good news: Yankees win. Bad news: the nephew didn’t win the Johnny Bench Award. Given the last month of his life though, it’s not the worst thing that can happen to the kid.
Me thinks Buster Olney wrote Arod’s career obituary a little early. I hope the guys on the beat don’t fall into the same trap.
Don’t make this a Gardner v. Melky debate. Both guys have talents that can help the team. Frankly, the Yankees need both of their contributions, given Nady’s injury.
————————————————————
I have a sneaking suspicion that some of the writers are more worried that Rodriguez won’t fail than they are that he will fail. The pettiness of some are beyond belief. It has nothing to do with their views on steroid use, either. They’re as guilty as everyone else that stuck their heads in the sand….or in other dark recesses.
“Reggie can’t be all that fond of ARod”
Is that a bad thing? Nobody was all that fond on Reggie.
How “beloved” Reggie is in Yankee-land makes me shake my head. That’s got to give Alex hope that a championship and a decade or 2 can erase alot of peoples memories.
Whether it’s Gardner, Cabrera, Swisher, Posada or Cervelli, I really don’t care who plays when as long as whoever it is helps the yankees win games in the regular season and beyond.
I’ve got to get over to Citi Field…..I’ve heard great things. Considering how much I like the new Yankee Stadium, Citi must be awesome…..Let’s keep it going Yanks. I’m going to a wedding with a lot of Sox fans so I need some ammo!
Drive 4-5:
Agreed that I think an OF move might be coming but let me ask you – and everybody else – a question: in some of that thinking about the OF, isn’t Matsui the 800 pound gorilla (Godzilla?) in the room?
I love Godzilla and think that dumping him mid-season is disrespectful to a true gentleman player. But, if they are contemplating an OF trade, how do they justify keeping Matsui solely as a DH with all the other players who could fill that role or who Girardi may need to give time at DH (Po, Damon, A-Rod, Jetes, Swish?).
Godzilla has a full no trade clause according to Cot’s Contracts. But even if he waived it, he has IMO minimal (no) trade value, considering his salary, his knees and his AL only prospects as a DH. Do they just cut ties with the guy to make room on the 25 man roster?
Forgive me Matsui-san, but it’s about winning. Does he help the team enough to justify that roster spot if a move could be made to help the team?
Jackson had two friends on the Yankees…3rd string catcher Fran Healy and George Steinbrenner. To be exact, though, Steinbrenner thought Jackson as more his money making pet than a friend. It worked out just fine for both. They each got what they wanted.
Pete.. have they tested Jeter for the strain of swine flu?
Just wondering- I had it, I know the symptoms. He’s got them
Good thing about Gardners emergence is it gives Girardi flexibility through all OF spots and DH.
He could rest guys if they get cold and find a spot for guys when they get hot.
Though it can result in several posters to lose their minds for the lineup posts
Giuseppe Franco,
IMO, the ‘85 team was the most exciting offensive Yankee team I have seen, and second overall to the ‘98 team. If there was a wildcard that year, the ’80s might not be devoid of championships.
murphydog,
You are absolutely right. Matsui does clog up the roster.He’s a class act. The double off of Pedro in the ‘03 ALCS Game 7 was one of the most memorable hits in recent Yankee history. I love the guy. But his roster spot has become an issue.
If Hideki can’t play the field in Inter League play, then he couldnt play the field in a World Series either. If there’s no chance of him being a starter if the team reaches its goal, then they must address the situation in July. If the right deal comes up that could help the Yankees reach the World Series and it means releasing Hideki,I would sadly support that decision.
There’s no reason to dump Matsui. Bad knees or not, this guy can hit when he’s feeling good and one of the best clutch hitters on the team.
After tomorrow, there are no more Interleague games so he should be in the lineup regularly the rest of the season.
Every time Alex does something positive I think it’s pretty obvious that there are mixed feelings in the press box. Even on this hot streak the stats “highlighted” on this thread are not as good as he’s really produced and a pretty awesome blast to RCF in that huge yard was determined to be “predictable”. It’s all rather lame.
In his last three games he’s 6-10 with 8 RBI and 6 W. That’s an OBP of .750 and a SGL of 1.100. And every hit has been CF/RCF.
With Nady gone it will be a tough call for the Yanks what to do. A four man OF w/ Melky, Brett, Damon and Swish scares no one, but can be pretty productive. Ransom and Pena have certainly put in their bid to stay around so my guess is they lay low. That’s an easier thing to do with Alex getting hot.
I’m glad the Yanks have been playting more better lately.
playing
Looks like the Cubs want DeRosa back from Cleveland.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....erosa.html
Nobody needed a crystal ball over the offseason to predict that the Cubs were really going to regret that move.
It only took half a season.
Giuseppe Franco,
I agree that Matsui’s career clutch & late & close stats have been outstanding. But his knees dont allow him to perform at that level now. The numbers bear that out. I love the guy, but his run as a Yankee is near the end. He reminds me of a bunch of players on the ‘65 team like Mantle and Elston Howard. Physically, they just werent capable of doing it anymore.
I see no reason at all to contemplate releasing Matsui. Even with his struggles he remains a dangerous DH (OPS .815)and/or a productive LH bat off the bench. With his salary the only possible trading partner would be Seattle with their huge Asian population, but you’d have to take a big contract back so where’s the gain?
The issue will be an upgraded bat (DeRosa?) vs a big time acquisition (Holliday?) vs staying pat.
97 wins and no post-season is hard to imagine.
Still it was 10 more years before the wild-card took place.
This season could we could see another good wild card race.
Watching last night’s encore… A-Rod was looking gold-glove like. That’s good news.
Drive:
I do the math the same way. Gardner’s emergence and Nady’s early exit really puts the spotlight on Matsui’s diminishing role. IMO, they have been treading water to see if Nady can come back. But knowing Nady isn’t coming back now adds some pressure to acquire a more proven outfielder – a role that Matsui’s knees apparently prevent him from filling. At the same time they need to hold onto Gardy to see if that speed-magic is real.
Do they trade for an OF arm? (Who’s available and which pieces get moved?) IMO, they need a proven outfielder (Think back to David Justice – without the steroids) and they need to free up that roster spot.
We’ll see.
Drive 4-5 June 27th, 2009 at 10:06 am
Giuseppe Franco,
I agree that Matsui’s career clutch & late & close stats have been outstanding. But his knees dont allow him to perform at that level now. The numbers bear that out. I love the guy, but his run as a Yankee is near the end. He reminds me of a bunch of players on the ‘65 team like Mantle and Elston Howard. Physically, they just werent capable of doing it anymore.
—————
I understand that but what’s the point in dumping him?
Some AL team would pick him up for the league minimum because the Yanks would have to pay his $13M salary anyways to play for someone else.
That wouldn’t be a wise business decision on their part. Nobody is going to trade for him.
So you might as well keep running him out there the rest of the season if his knees allow him to do it and wish him good luck at the end of the season when they part ways.
Actually, Reggie and Arod are very friendly.
He watched the game from the clubhouse because he’s not allowed in the bench during the game.
I really don’t think it’s about Matsui’s numbers at DH. I think it’s about the other players who need to access the DH spot from time to time, who fill other full time roles for the team, plus the need to have another proven OF on the team.
Will DH production really suffer that much if it is filled by A-Rod, Po, Swisher etc? Maybe not enough to ignore the value of what that freed up roster spot gives the team that Matsui doesn’t. IMO there is some reason to consider making a move with Matsui.
Murphydog — Your points are valid, but the answer isn’t dumping Matsui. What the Yanks need to do is sit him more regularly. Find the pitchers he struggles with an use those games to let ARod or Damon or whomever DH.
That ‘85 team was the first Yankee team I can remember. I was 5 years old and loved Donnoe Baseball. Every weekend, my dad took me to the stadium-if the Yankees were home. He also let me stay up “late” to watch 3 Mattingly at bats per night.
I said this yesterday, but Mattingly is the reason I’m a Yankee fan.
I was a Mattingly fan first in 84-85 and the team grew on me.
He was my idol growing up and I haven’t had a favorite player since the day he retired.
Keep in mind that Matsui is still on pace to hit over 20 dingers this season.
He has 10 in just 200 ABs. 20 homers should be very doable for him the way the Stadium has played this season.
I’m not a fan of Brett’s and I don’t think he will keep this up, so I think the Yankees need another bat. However, they need a pen arm more………
SJ, sorry about Tony not winning the award, but the fact that he was up for it is still a terrific honor.
Buster Olney and every other mediot seemed to delight in Alex’ struggles. I don’t even read Olney anymore…..not that I could if I wanted to, whatwith ESPN basically being an Insiders club.
“I said this yesterday, but Mattingly is the reason I’m a Yankee fan.
I was a Mattingly fan first in 84-85 and the team grew on me.
He was my idol growing up and I haven’t had a favorite player since the day he retired.”
Giuseppe Franco, I completely understand that. Mattingly is the reason I am a Yankee fan too. Growing up in the 80s most of the kids on my block were Mets fans because they won. Heck, even my brother loved them, much to my dad’s dismay. I however, was drawn to Mattingly for reasons I don’t understand.
Is it just me or is Tex slumping?
I just noticed that there are eight teams in MLB with 40 or more wins. Four of them are in the AL East. Jeez!
I remember that 1985 season too, though I had already been a Yankees fan for many years. Only two games from a division title but they won six games more than the Kansas City Royals who ended up beatin the St Louis Denkingers in the World Series. Tough year.
as SJ said Melky and Gardner are both needed. Playing whomever is hot and giving guys rest will help long term..
As I stated ealier ESPN’s obituary on Arod was a joke, malpractice, and a disgrace. even whern arod sucked his OBP was 370 or so…………
if arod is only good this offense will do real well, if arod plays great all bets are off.
the guy needs an addtl. surgery after the season!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yes Tex is struggling… 10-47 in the last 12 games with 0 HR andonly 4 RBI. Not catastrophic, but struggling.
“What the Yanks need to do is sit him more regularly. Find the pitchers he struggles with an use those games to let ARod or Damon or whomever DH.”
I understand your view. It’s actually more realistic and conservative (not the political sense) and businesslike to hold onto Matsui until the end of the season. Nady will likely go DL for the rest of the season freeing up a roster spot for a new OF if they find one.
But let me ask you this: if they sit Matsui more often won’t that only diminish his output via rust and reduced ABs and thus his value as an out avoider-run producer? It’s kind of a catch 22.
I can only imagine the comments here if ARod had signed with the Red Sox instead of the Yankees, given his steroid assisted rise up the all time HR ladder.
I’m sure people would have been just as willing to argue that ARod injecting Boli was no different than Babe Ruth drinking a cup of coffee before the game.
I can understand being sick of the steroid talk and wanting to move on, but some of these comparisons between designer steroids and “greenies” is beyond preposterous.
Brady Anderson could take all the greenies in the world and not hit 50 HR. Same with McGwire and Sosa and Bonds. That’s why it took 40 years for anyone to pass Maris’ 61. (Which amazingly no one has yet done cleanly.)
It’s possible to root for ARod without trying to smear greats like Hank Aaron, who had to endure a lot more than ARod’s mirror-smooching troubles. Trying to puff up ARod by crapping on the legacy of players like Aaron or Maris just weakens your argument.
Stuart — Isn’t it amazing how little credit Alex gets for likely putting himself through two surgeries in order to play more this year? If some other guys on this team and others did that they would be cannonized for Sainthood.
Even this the right hip is not all there he made some terrific plays to his right last night saving at least two runs.
Yes, he can be a tool at times, but he’s a tremendous player and clearly put team above self when he chose the surgical option he chose back in March.
JohnBlacksox,
I think you’re generally right.
But the bottom line is, players would have cheated with whatever was available to them at any point.
If steroids were available 40 years ago, you can be sure players would have used them.
Knowing this, it’s up to the league to prevent it. They have failed miserably to do that.
Their testing policy had been so awful it’s like telling a classroom of high school students they can take the test home with them but that they shouldn’t cheat.
I’ve told this story before but when I was a kid I chased Mattingly’s car up 157th st next to the player’s lot.
He caught the light, I caught up with him and he rolled down his window to sign.
It was a Honda Prelude.
Oh,
and if you get a good grade, you get millions of dollars, fame, and mobs of girls/guys for your taking.
John Blacksox says: It’s possible to root for ARod without trying to smear greats like Hank Aaron…
Easiest thing in the world. You just root for the laundry. I do it all the time. It’s nice when you can also root for the person inside the laundry, but not essential to the fan experience. And when you root for the laundry you don’t have to compare the individual wearing it to anybody.
http://www.bostonherald.com/sp.....id=1181554
—————————————————–
Read this story and you may understand that Arod’s struggles are more related to his hip than his PED use.
“I said this yesterday, but Mattingly is the reason I’m a Yankee fan”
———
ditto.
Mattingly will always be a legend to me.
I’ll never forget how much I envied the kid in school who had the 1984 Donruss Mattingly rookie card.
I had to settle for the lesser Topps rookie card as my prized birthday present.
John,
Problem with your rant is, you can’t offer any evidence how many HR’s Arod, or any of these guys hit, were SOLELY because of PED use.
Plenty of guys used and it did nothing for them.
Ancedotal evidence isn’t evidence.
It’s ok to hate on Arod. Pretty tough to sell though he only hit HR’s because of PED use.
There us no evidence that is correct.
JohnBlacksox,
Based on your username alone, it would be tough to argue with you on A-Rod’s behalf regarding anything.
In other words, you obviously didn’t like the guy before the revelations so of course you’re not going to approve of anything else he does.
I made the point last night that the fans really don’t care about steroids anymore.
Only the media cares because they took a beating for burying their heads in the sand when it was rampant in the late 90s and everyone knew it. Now they are just trying to make up for lost time and beat a dead horse.
The only fans who do care tend to base their opinions solely on whether they personally like the guy or not.
Pettitte was caught too. But some people prefer to judge him differently than A-Rod.
MaineYankee,
And Lowell had the full surgery didn’t he? These injuries are fairly new to the sport, so there really aren’t many test cases whrn it comes to a complete recovery time table. Arod’s return is incredible, because he only had the procedure to relieve the hip, and returned fairly quickly. But who knows what his recovery will look like after he has the complete procedure?
Why was Topps the “lesser” card?
Always thought Topps was top.
“Pettitte was caught too. But some people prefer to judge him differently than A-Rod.”
Yep, and simply pointing this out is throwing Andy under the bus in some people’s eyes.
I’ll never forget how much I envied the kid in school who had the 1984 Donruss Mattingly rookie card.
I had to settle for the lesser Topps rookie card as my prized birthday present.
—————-
I still have those cards, both Donruss and Topps. Ah, the memories.
It just didn’t seem right to pick another favorite player when Mattingly retired. Not even Jeter could make me walk that plank.
Then again, I was in college when he retired so I was getting a little too old to adopt a new favorite player.
Exact same thing happened with football for me. I loved Dan Marino as a kid. The Dolphins later grew on me and I’ve been a fan ever since.
“Whether it’s Gardner, Cabrera, Swisher, Posada or Cervelli, I really don’t care who plays when as long as whoever it is helps the yankees win games in the regular season and beyond.”
Right on the money. While I have been lobbying mightily for Cervelli because he has really seemed to work beautifully with the pitchers and has certainly helped deliver some great wins in the process, if we were constantly losing games with him behind the plate, while I wouldn’t love him any less, I certainly wouldn’t want him catching.
I was very happy to see Girardi finally give Cervelli more playing time (he caught Wednesday and Friday). I hope that keeps up and that as long as Cervelli is successful as part of the catching-pitching tandem, he continues to get additional games.
Tom in N.J.
June 27th, 2009 at 10:30 am
“I said this yesterday, but Mattingly is the reason I’m a Yankee fan.
I was a Mattingly fan first in 84-85 and the team grew on me.
He was my idol growing up and I haven’t had a favorite player since the day he retired.”
Giuseppe Franco, I completely understand that. Mattingly is the reason I am a Yankee fan too. Growing up in the 80s most of the kids on my block were Mets fans because they won. Heck, even my brother loved them, much to my dad’s dismay. I however, was drawn to Mattingly for reasons I don’t understand.
————————————————————
Amphetamenes are as much a PED as steroids are. They got players back on the field when they wouldn’t be playing up to their capabilities or not playing at all. They increased their numbers.
Speed/amphetamenes came across the Atlantic right along with the American soldiers after WWI. US troops also used them in WII. Pilots were especially fond of them. Ask Ralph Kiner about them. He used them as a pilot of a PBY flying over the Atantic looking for German U-Boats.
SJ44
Funny ESPN didn’t follow Arod’s rehab games like Manny isn’t it. No bias there.
http://www.nypost.com/seven/06.....176391.htm
Burnett didn’t even bother watching the tape of his Fenway Park disaster on June 9, when he lasted 2 2/3 innings and walked five batters. He left with the Yankees trailing 5-0.
“If a team goes out and gets me, I’m not going to watch that stuff,” Burnett said. “I’m going to watch myself shutting down a team. I believe if you see yourself doing right, you do right.”
** I guess is what AJ meant a couple of weeks ago when he said he wasn’t going to try and figure out what was wrong. I like his positive attitude and I guess whatever works for him, but I’m not sure how it’s a great idea to not look at what went wrong. If he doesn’t know why he was bad, how can AJ try and fix it?
I’m surprised he says he’s had his A stuff – it seems to me like he hasn’t had it all year (outside of the Tampa and Florida games) despite throwing 94/95.
Many good points on the steroid implications regarding Alex and others.
JohnBlackSox… the point about amphetemines isn’t that they did the same things for those eras players as steroid did for this era. The point is widespread illegal drug use in order to perform better existed long before anabolic steroids existed and will probably never go away.
The idea that steroid users are “cheaters” and every other PED user is just trying to get an edge is ignorant and inaccurate. Personally I don’t have a problem with McGuire, Sosa, Bonds or ARod any more than I have a problem with guys who took two greenies before batting practice on a day game after a night game.
To me, Manny is in a different category because he tested positive for a banned substance under a formal drug testing prcedure something no other star player have done. But to me he should pay the price and come back to the game with no “lasting taint” on his legacy.
We know Alex has not tested positive since 2004 and has averaged 42 HR a year in that time. We also know he averaged 42 HR a year in the three seasons prior to signing with Texas. He averaged 52 HR in his three Texas seasons so a reasonable person could conclude 30 of his HR (10/yr for 3 yrds) might be tied to the benefits of steroid use…
SJ, did the person who beat out your nephew also get drafted?
Sorry, Tom…that wasn’t meant for you….just for the wizard that thinks Amphetamenes were candy and did nothing for permormance.
What I meant to say to you was that a lot of kids took to Mattingly, because he was like the majority of people. He wasn’t big like winfield or fast like Henderson. He was like you and me. Just a normal guy….that could hit. Henderson and Winfield were the superb athletes. Mattingly was just a ball player.
MaineYankee —
To be fair, Alex didn’t play in any real Re-hab games… just extended spring training on back fields.. nothing you could really televise.
Still it’s the height of hypocrisy that the home of the most sanctimonious critics of steroid users is glorifying the return of the only major star in baseball history to violate the MLB drug testing program!
If Reggie doesn’t have a problem being passed why should we?
Looking at the all-time list, the only guy who passed Reggie who hasn’t been linked is Junior.
Thome’s very close.
Delgado could reach 500 next year. If he get’s a job where he get’s enough playing time. And stays healthy.
Alex needs 5 to catch Raffy which will put him in top 10.
9 to tie Killebrew
19 to tie McGuire
22 to tie Frank Robinson.
A-Rod has earned cynicism but it’s not fair to discount all his talent.
Feeding a steroid cocktail to any guy off the street does not a superstar make. The talent already has to be there.
Drive 4-5
June 27th, 2009 at 8:28 am
When Melky was flourishing in April & May, he credited it to his regular playing time. If he loses his full time job to Gardner,you wonder how it will affect his psyche. Brett is on a hot streak and I’m all for riding it out. But Gardner has looked so overmatched at times that I have my doubts about how long he can sustain it. He’s hit .355 with a .412 obp in 13 Inter League games. He’s hit .214 with a .200 obp in 8 games against Boston this year. We’ll see.
I do think that the Yanks are better right now with Melky and Gardner in the lineup and Swisher on the bench.
=======
Agreed that Melky needs to play regularly. Not just for his sake, but for the Yankees. He’s the best all-around OF we have. No one else can play all three OF positions.
At 24, he’s also still developing as a hitter. You cannot expect performance out of a young player – one who’s had very little development time in the minors – to rust on the bench and succeed offensively in spots. Especially a SH.
I find Abraham’s interpretation of what Girardi said to be very interesting. He never even implied that Melky is now “coming down to earth.”
That’s the writer’s faulty conclusion. In fact, Girardi said what I’ve been saying – and what any logical or awake person would say – his numbers have been affected by a shoulder injury. He also would not declare Gardner is starting CF.
Although clearly, that’s his preference, he is wary about alienating the guy who is the better pure hitter and the most versatile of OFers – and the only guy with an arm in the entire outfield.
Anyone predicting Melky’s demise offensively is making the same mistake as before he won the starting job back: look past the numbers – good or bad – and pay attention to approach.
He knows what he’s doing at the plate. He can drive the ball. He can foul off that high heat outside LH because his bat is quick.
He’s also coming round lately: .364/.500 in his last seven games after a dismal month where he couldn’t even get around on the ball – especially left-handed.
If you actually watch ABs, you can pick up the WHY of a player’s slump.
Cano rolling over his wrists didn’t even raise an eyebrow among this group – guy’s been icing his hand in the dugout for weeks.
Hey G Franco – your Melky post employs a bit of revisionism.
Now you are saying you knew he couldn’t keep up his early numbers in 2009 (what? .385? .327?).
In fact, you argued with me that hitting .280 would be difficult for Melky Cabrera.
I told you .280 is a cinch for him – not a reach at all. He’s capable easily of .280. You thought that was reaching for the sky for him.
You’ve now revised your prediction because he blew you out of the water: now you are saying you had predicted he can’t consistently produce his April/May numbers, but that’s not what you wrote at all.
I know because I was there, and I was the one debating with you. But nice try
And since he’s hitting, what, .285? After an awful June, his numbers, at his lowest point thus far, exceed your “prediction” for him right now.
Those numbers are likely going to rise, because July, which is just around the corner, is historically Cabrera’s best month:
In 316 career ABs, Cabrera is hitting .313.
I find it interesting that the criticism for Melky and the ‘certainty’ that he’s a “4th OF’ never is accompanied by a knowledge, or even an attempt to qualify, what type of hitter he is, what his ABs look like, etc.
Nothing in this regard is never even grounded in a solid theory, just the same idiotic referencing of a single year – last year – when he was all of 23. What choice does the reader have, but to dismiss the undisciplined criticism and to conclude a strong emotional bias?
BTW, in terms of numbers vs. Boston, he’s .357/.379 in 28 games this year. Career he’s .319/.391 in 182 games. Don’t know offhand numbers but he particularly hits Beckett.
Thome, Griffey and Delgardo’s use of steroids wouldn’t at all surprise me. In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised by anybody. I also wouldn’t really care. Just like it doesn’t bother me to look at medically enhanced women. artistry is artistry.
Correction: Delgado’s
GB 7 — Great phrase “medically enhanced women”. Remind me of the time I made a flattering comment about someone and was told “they’re not real”; to which I replied they look real good to me!
Later folks… have a good one
When Melky was flourishing in April & May, he credited it to his regular playing time. If he loses his full time job to Gardner,you wonder how it will affect his psyche. Brett is on a hot streak and I’m all for riding it out. But Gardner has looked so overmatched at times that I have my doubts about how long he can sustain it. He’s hit .355 with a .412 obp in 13 Inter League games. He’s hit .214 with a .200 obp in 8 games against Boston this year. We’ll see.
I do think that the Yanks are better right now with Melky and Gardner in the lineup and Swisher on the bench.
=======
Agreed that Melky needs to play regularly. Not just for his sake, but for the Yankees. He’s the best all-around OF we have. No one else can play all three OF positions.
At 24, he’s also still developing as a hitter. You cannot expect performance out of a young player – one who’s had very little development time in the minors – to rust on the bench and succeed offensively in spots. Especially a SH.
I find the BLOG writer’s interpretation of what Girardi said to be very interesting. The manager never even implied that Melky is now “coming down to earth.”
That’s the writer’s faulty conclusion. In fact, Girardi said what I’ve been saying – and what any logical or awake person would say – his numbers have been affected by a shoulder injury. He also would not declare Gardner is starting CF.
Although clearly, that’s his preference, he is wary about alienating the guy who is the better pure hitter and the most versatile of OFers – and the only guy with an arm in the entire outfield.
Anyone predicting Melky’s demise offensively is making the same mistake as before he won the starting job back: look past the numbers – good or bad – and pay attention to approach.
He knows what he’s doing at the plate. He can drive the ball. He can foul off that high heat outside LH because his bat is quick.
He’s also coming round lately: .364/.500 in his last seven games after a dismal month where he couldn’t even get around on the ball – especially left-handed.
If you actually watch ABs, you can pick up the WHY of a player’s slump.
Cano rolling over his wrists didn’t even raise an eyebrow among this group – guy’s been icing his hand in the dugout for weeks.
Hey G Franco – your Melky post employs a bit of revisionism.
Now you are saying you knew he couldn’t keep up his early numbers in 2009 (what? .385? .327?).
In fact, you argued with me that hitting .280 would be difficult for Melky Cabrera.
I told you .280 is a cinch for him – not a reach at all. He’s capable easily of .280. You thought that was reaching for the sky for him.
You’ve now revised your prediction because he blew you out of the water: now you are saying you had predicted he can’t consistently produce his April/May numbers, but that’s not what you wrote at all.
I know because I was there, and I was the one debating with you. But nice try
And since he’s hitting, what, .285? After an awful June, his numbers, at his lowest point thus far, exceed your “prediction” for him right now.
Those numbers are likely going to rise, because July, which is just around the corner, is historically Cabrera’s best month:
In 316 career ABs, Cabrera is hitting .313.
I find it interesting that the criticism for Melky and the ‘certainty’ that he’s a “4th OF’ never is accompanied by a knowledge, or even an attempt to qualify, what type of hitter he is, what his ABs look like, etc.
Nothing in this regard is never even grounded in a solid theory, just the same idiotic referencing of a single year – last year – when he was all of 23. What choice does the reader have, but to dismiss the undisciplined criticism and to conclude a strong emotional bias?
BTW, in terms of numbers vs. Boston, he’s .357/.379 in 28 games this year. Career he’s .319/.391 in 182 games. Don’t know offhand numbers but he particularly hits Beckett.
Hey G Franco – your Melky post employs a bit of revisionism.
Now you are saying you knew he couldn’t keep up his early numbers in 2009 (what? .385? .327?).
In fact, you argued with me that hitting .280 would be difficult for Melky Cabrera.
I told you .280 is a cinch for him – not a reach at all. He’s capable easily of .280. You thought that was reaching for the sky for him.
You’ve now revised your prediction because he blew you out of the water: now you are saying you had predicted he can’t consistently produce his April/May numbers, but that’s not what you wrote at all.
—————–
I didn’t revise anything. I’ve never been a big Melky fan and that hasn’t changed.
I said he was much more like the hitter he was in his first 1500 career ABs than he was in his first 150 ABs of 2009.
And frankly, if both players are hitting at a .280 / 350 OBP + clip, Gardner is the more valuable player.
I guarantee Girardi agrees.
Cabrera’s numbers against Beckett and the rest of the Red Sox pitchers.
http://www.baseball-reference......;as=batter
bodhisattva,
You’ve obviously had a very strange obsession for Melky and good for you.
But I’m not one of those people and I see Melky for what I think he really is. I don’t think he’s an everyday player based on 1700 + ABs and we’re not sure yet about Gardner.
There is nothing neither of us can say to each other that’s going to change our opinions.
Gardner is still a work in progress. He’s still adjusting thanks to a terrible Yankee Minor League program. This a program that is shortening Jackson’s swing at the AAA level. Where were they, all the levels before? Long started working with Brett this year to incorporate his lower body, where was the coaching before? You can see it in BG’s at bats, one time he’s all arms, next time he’s compact through the swing. 5 for 6 is just stats fodder, doesn’t mean that he’s arrived, let’s wait for another month or so.
I didn’t revise anything. I’ve never been a big Melky fan and that hasn’t changed.
I said he was much more like the hitter he was in his first 1500 career ABs than he was in his first 150 ABs of 2009.
And frankly, if both players are hitting at a .280 / 350 OBP + clip, Gardner is the more valuable player.
I guarantee Girardi agrees.
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Of course you did.
Melky’s April/May numbers are beyond the scope of your understanding of what you figured he was capable of offensively.
You predicted he could not hit even .280 – which is actually a comfortable place for him to live.
“No – he cannot,” were your words to my statement that .280 isn’t a big deal for a bat like Cabrera’s – hardly a stretch.
He raised the bar so high, that you’re now retro-actively saying you never expected him to hit .327 – or .385?
That’s specious of you.
Your most honest statement, in fact, is that you have: “Never been a Melky fan.”
And if .280 is a reach – what do you think he’s consistently capable of? .250 maybe? Or is .233 more like it?
What was his average, any way, over his first 1500 ABs?
Obviously, it wasn’t .280, which you’ve already confirmed he “cannot” achieve.
For those of you who were not alive at the time, a reminder:
one reason people thought those uppers the troops brought back into civilian life were okay was that it was the government who distributed them to the forces. If it was good enough for the greatest generation, if the government gave them out like candy, what could be so bad about them?
A lot of things are different today but a reminder of why those particular PEDs had such an aura of respectability may make some of the younger crowd realize where that attitude sprang from.
bodhisattva,
Whatever, dude. Not really interested in fighting with you about it anymore.
The one thing that I do recall during our debates back in ST is that I didn’t think Melky was an everyday player because he had plenty of chances to take a stranglehold of the job during the three years it was handed to him.
All I wanted was for Gardner to get his shot and he’s taking advantage of it.
I like what he brings to this team better than Melky and all the ranting and raving from you isn’t going to change that.
More importantly, Girardi feels that way too as long as Gardner finds a way to get on base at a .350 OBP+ clip.
And he’s the guy who makes out the lineups.
Giuseppe Franco
June 27th, 2009 at 11:30 am
bodhisattva,
You’ve obviously had a very strange obsession for Melky and good for you.
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Let’s stick to the facts: you have gone out of your way to consistently make unqualified, dismissive statements about Melky Cabrera’s abilities.
You have never really backed any of those statements up, other than to state your opinion in absolutes: “cannot.” etc.
Unlike you, I have given sound arguments on why Cabrera is worth playing every day.
Your statements about Cabrera are never supported with any kind of theory on his plate mechanics, or even numbers. All you offer is your zeal that the guy stinks offensively and defensively.
THis is a baseball forum, and you argued so strenuously that Cabrera brings nothing to the table as an every day player. The discussion was between you and myself.
I am merely bringing light to what you actually WROTE, versus what you CLAIM you predicted.
And since you and I debated this before Melky even stepped into the batter’s box in April – I am reminding you of what you actually wrote.
IF you had not attempted to revise what you actually wrote, I wouldn’t have said anything in your direction.
That’s how it works on these forums – people debate and they hopefully offer some kind of support for their statements. You not only aren’t offering support, you are now revising what you originally predicted, and THAT is what prompted my response.
Never revised anything about what I said back then.
And I don’t rely on blind faith to make my arguments. That’s where you and I disagreed strongly on Melky.
But like I said, none of this hoopla is going to change our minds.
More importantly, Girardi feels that way too as long as Gardner finds a way to get on base at a .350 OBP+ clip.
And he’s the guy who makes out the lineups.
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Girardi’s preference for CF has nothing to do with you claiming Melky Cabrera can’t even hope to hit anything approaching .280.
I’m not interested in debating with you, either, because, with all due respect, you generally don’t present arguments, you just make blanket statements.
The accusation of “obsession” on my part shows you strike out wildly and lack weapons to debate honestly.
For your comments to have integrity, you might have said:
“Well, I STILL don’t think Cabrera is even a .280 hitter – and I don’t expect him to finish up with even that.”
OR:
“I guess I underestimated him – I suppose .280 is probably about right.”
But have it your way – I guess, technically, you did “predict” he wouldn’t hit .385 for the season.
Hey man, great call
GreenBeret7
June 27th, 2009 at 11:28 am
Cabrera’s numbers against Beckett and the rest of the Red Sox pitchers.
http://www.baseball-reference......;as=batter
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Thanks for link. Some of those smaller sample sizes will be worth watching over time.
Tough to debate when I don’t have any idea what the hell you’re talking about.
Lay off the uppers, man.
Kate Hudson better watch out. I was at the Orioles game in May, saw Alex with his African-American/Latino girlfriend. She looks as if she does not play. When fans commented on his steroids the looks she gave them shut even the men up. If she gets a hold of Kate I don’t think Kate will be pretty anymore. I’m told Alex’s girlfriend, from Camden yards, lives in Maryland and she’s not a baseball fan, so she don’t come around often. She looked bored at the game. I must admit she was gorgeous. I could not stop looking at her the entire game against the Orioles. A-Rod seemed a little jealous of her too. Watched her the entire game. Wild Kate is on a run after Alex, who is too whimpy to tell her he don’t really want her. What is his problem? SPEAK UP MAN! Didn’t he already take us throught his whirlwind with Madonna. Anyway, I look forward to more appearances by the girl from Camden Yards. Kate watch out. At least I’ll get to see her again and who knows maybe I’ll get lucky and take her from Alex and Kate can have him. LOL Thanks for the updates. They are right on point.