Today’s meet and greet: Phil, Joba and Aceves
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If you’re going to the game today:
Phil Hughes, Joba Chamberlain and Alfredo Aceves will greet fans entering through Gate 4 at roughly 4 p.m.
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Enough, please, with the steroids “list” that some fantasy baseball site irresponsibly posted earlier this week.
It’s a list of random names. It’s a crock, it’s nonsense, it’s a total fabrication. Even The Daily News, which has made doping its raison d’être, has ignored it. That the mainstream media has passed on this should tell you a little something, no?
Deadspin has some details if you’re interested.
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on Wednesday, July 1st, 2009 at 11:47 am by Peter Abraham.
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Chad Jennings
Sam Borden
Josh Thomson
Wow, that’s a pretty good trio of pitchers to meet.
Pretty cool…it’s like a monsoon out here now, though. I’m not sure what the forecast is, but I don’t think it’s pretty. Also, I think Phil Hughes has an Innerview with Kim Jones today……should be fun
A chance to tell Joba how boring he is in person!
Someone should ask Joba for an autograph saying “I’m new to this. Joba Chamberlain”.
Do you get to talk to Joba for more than 5.1 seconds? Or does he tire and Phil and Ace then come in to help him through the last couple seconds of the conversation at that point?
Would Joba just look bored when he talks, and when asked why, he would say “I’m new at this”?
posted this at the end of the last thread…some one asked what a Hokie is…
a Hokie in reality is nothing…the word Hokie came from our fight song (contains the lines “Hokie Hokie Hokie Hi, Tech Tech VPI”). We were known as the fighting gobblers because Tech started as a military school (fighting) and gobblers actually referred to the way the military students ate their food. somewhere along the way a turkey became our mascot (which makes sense for gobblers as obviously turkeys gobble gobble) and they eventually took Hokie from the fight song…we get this question alot from Virgina Wahoos which is funny since a wahoo is a fish and their mascot is some kind of (g a y) musketeer.
From previous thread, thanks for the info about the origination of the word Hokie.
That’s a pretty cool trio of players to meet. Joba and Hughes are my age, it would be great to meet them.
Forecast is same as last night. Scattered t-storms.
They will get the game in but I wouldn’t be surprised to see another delay.
Part of me wants to get there early just to ask Joba about the comment: “You have to remember, this is my first year doing this”. That comment just really rubbed me the wrong way.
But I wonder if I heckle him if I’ll get thrown out. That wouldn’t be good. I might be sleeping on the couch tonight.
“an Innerview with Kim Jones today” – are we talking colonoscopy here? Is Kim aware of the situation?
Handshakes and greetings down the line:
“Awesome job Phil. Keep it up!”
“Looking good Alfredo. You the Man!”
“W T F Joba !”
I have absolutely no problem with Joba saying its his first year. Its true. Its his first year in major league baseball, the height of international competition in the sport, as a starting pitcher.
He also said he will continue to work to get better, so not seeing what the big deal is .
“I have absolutely no problem with Joba saying its his first year. Its true. Its his first year in major league baseball”
Unless you count last year.
You guys are a really tough crowd.
Also can people please stop posting that stupid list from rotoinfo, first of all the list was 104 players who tested positive, and we all wanted ‘the other 103′
That list only contains 103 and one of them is A-rod so durrr looks like someone messed up when creating a fake list.
“I have absolutely no problem with Joba saying its his first year. Its true. Its his first year in major league baseball”
Unless you count last year.
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Joba started last year in the bullpen
And joba even made that distinction in the postgame, he said its his first time doing it from the very start.
Self-explanatory:
http://deadspin.com/5304675/wh.....is-a-crock
“Were receiving alot of negative feed back especially from Red sox fans. Which leads me to believe this list is 90% accurate.”
Hilarious.
metro north needs to have a train that gets to the Stadium at 4 when gates open … the earliest direct train on the hudson line gets to the Stadium at 5
OMG YES! A CHANCE TO MEET HUGHES IN PERSON
We were at the Atlanta series last week. Aceves was great with the fans. He was the only player that signed for more than just a few seconds. He seemed to really be enjoying himself and interacting with the fans. His signed baseball now resides proudly in my game room.
Teixeira is on ESPN radio right now, he sounds like a future leader. He said he wants to lead by example first and when he gets older hopefully he steps into that leader role.
The roto list had a duplicate name on it making it 104 …Jeromy Burnitz. Who’s responsible for the “rumored” listing?
Go Yankees 2009 !!
Since the Santana trade talks Phil Hughes has been pilloried by many yankees fans and people in the media. He’s over rated, he’s bust, he not going to be an ace, he’s mediocre, he has not fastball, etc, etc.
The Yankees needed an ace and Hughes couldn’t be that guy.
Now Hughes is the darling arm coming out of the pen. I wonder how many of the people now praising Hughes were dumping on him a year ago or even a couple of months ago saying that he was over rated and never going to amount to more than a mediocre pitcher.
It’s remarkable to listen to Michael Kay talk about Hughes without any hint of irony. How many times did he say that he didn’t really see it with Hughes?
And on a night where Hughes was fantastic again the mets were playing a game against a so-so Brewers team after losing 4 straight and their season spiraling out of control Santana takes the mound. And he walks the pitcher on 4 pitches and throws the ball all over the diamond.
I have to admit that I am starting to tire of Joba’s act. He pitches like someone who doesn’t want to take responsibility for what is about to happen. He nibbles and avoids when facing hitters. His results nibble at success and avoid significant failure. Joba’s interviews also bob and weave and don’t address the crux of what happened on the field. He’s got great potential. I’m starting to get concerned about his attitude.
Someone should scream Phil Youuuuuse is a starting pitcha
Part of me wants to get there early just to ask Joba about the comment: “You have to remember, this is my first year doing this”. That comment just really rubbed me the wrong way.
——————————————————
Me too! I wonder if someone spoke to him after his little disagreement with Jorge a couple of weeks ago. They probably told him to respect veterans. If so, I don’t think being snotty like this is going to help him.
It’s remarkable to listen to Michael Kay talk about Hughes without any hint of irony. How many times did he say that he didn’t really see it with Hughes?
=======================================
Oh I know.
Whenever Kay would talk about Hughes it was like he was taking about garbage(at least that was how it seemed to me). Now it kinda…ooohhh…aaaaahhhh! Youse!
Whatever.
I have to admit I never thought I’d see 96 mph after a ball left Yusssse’s arm again. Glad to see it’s back. Everything will round into shape in time.
“The roto list had a duplicate name on it making it 104 …Jeromy Burnitz. Who’s responsible for the “rumored” listing? ”
There is obviously only one possible answer and I’m surprised that Pete didn’t get to it first…A-Rod authored that list!
“I have to admit that I am starting to tire of Joba’s act.”
Chances are pretty good that he’s not quite as cute and cuddly as he was at first portrayed. So? Let the kid pitch for a year and let’s reconvene on his act and personality next year.
Who’s that Marlin fan that always gets Evan riled up, can he please call Fatcessa.
We all need to change our expectations for Joba. He should be a consistent 6+ innings three runs guy. He hasn’t been giving the Yanks nearly enough length because of too much nibbling, too many breaking pitches and thus high pitch counts. To only go seven innings in 15 starts is not good enough.
Jerkface — why are you so intent on discrediting “the list”? You’re not on it are you? I have no idea if it’s accurate but it sure seems to have many guys who I’ve suspected and a decent mix of stars and so-so players.
It’ll be interesting to see how many of them are actually asked about it point blank.
what did the marlin fan say
Joba was better last year before the shoulder issues.
He threw a few at 94mph last night but most of his fastballs were 90-92mph.
He has had vary few starts where his velocity has been what it was last year.
I see him nibling because his down 3-5mph for what ever the reason.
Hopefully the allstar break will be a good rest and he’ll come back stronger for the second half.
He’s been good for a #5 starter but he is supposed to have #1 or #2 stuff and he has not.
23-year-old kids are what they are and Joba is no different in that regard. They’re all defensive, they all think they know best and they think they know it all. (Well, maybe not all, but it’s not uncharacteristic, for sure.)
I wouldn’t get all out of whack because of his interviews.
From Bill Madden last September -
Yankees must bring in Matt Holliday, ship out Phil Hughes and Robinson Cano.
http://www.nydailynews.com/spo.....hip_o.html
“He’s been good for a #5 starter but he is supposed to have #1 or #2 stuff and he has not.”
I think this is an example of the high expectations and lack of patience. He is supposed to have #1 and #2 stuff but he’s not going to be there this early in his development…it is reasonable to expect Joba to END UP as a guy with #1 and #2 stuff but it’s not reasonable to expect him to start with it.
Think about it, if we make the playoffs, we won’t need a 5-man rotation and we can have both Hughes and Joba in the pen. That’s just not fair lol.
I wonder if Joba’s lost 2 to 3 MPH of his signing autographs?
As for his boring pitching, I agree, he still has work to do, but his “OK” era is in the top 20 in AL starters.
Anyone (randy1)
know anything about Golf courses in the upper Cape area.
I’d like to do a quick nine at a novice friendly course.
My friend has a tee time for 18 at Atlantic CC for 8:16am
I said no thanks.
Not played in 8 years – just want to have a nice nine holes. Maybe friday afternoon.
The place I’m staying is right near the bridges on the mainland side
Thanks
Bruney stinks & so does Hinske ( don’t care what they are paying for him)….they haven’t & won’t beat the Red Sox this year with him(Bruney) as a 8th inning RP
“Whenever Kay would talk about Hughes it was like he was taking about garbage(at ”
Last year Hughes was nothing and Joba was everything for Kay. This year he can’t stop raving about Yuse in the pen and can’t stop perseverating on Joba’s fastball velocity.
The complete inconsistency is irrelevant. There is no sense of irony at all.
Rather than perhaps thinking about what’s happened with Yuse and drawing the conclusion that he was wrong because he mistaked inconsistency for ability in a young pitcher who is going to go through ups and downs Kay is just repeating the pattern with Joba this year.
The cognative dissonance is remarkable. That Bill Madden article on how the yankees MUST trade Hughes and Cano for Holliday is great. Holliday has a lower OPS than Cano does right now.
And here’s this gem from Madden in that article for why they had to trade for Holliday last season:
“Otherwise, the Yankees go into the offseason with two significant holes to fill – first base and center field. If they want to be foolish, they could fill first base by throwing $100 million at Boras client Mark Teixeira.
But with Jorge Posada’s throwing ability uncertain, and first base his likely destination by the end of his contract in 2011, they would probably be advised to expedite that process this spring. If it’s determined that Posada can catch, then first base will have to be addressed from the outside – free agent Kevin Millar or a trade for Texas’ Hank Blalock are two options”
That’s right according to Madden – the yankees had to trade Cano and Hughes for Holliday. And they would be “foolish” to sign Mark Teixeira.
Everyone is wrong about these kinds of moves. But what’s remarkable about the schtick of guys like Kay and Madden is how certain they are in shoving their opinion around through crass hyperbole.
“Let the kid pitch for a year and let’s reconvene on his act and personality next year.”
I understand that Joba is young and that this is his first full year as a starter (even though he does have 27 starts – almost a full year’s worth – under his belt). It’s way too soon to expect consistent excellence from him, and I don’t. The things that I do look for now are teachability and (hopefully) some signs of growth. I’d like to see some acknowledgment from him that he is aware of there being a problem and his commitment to working on it.
It’s not that Joba doesn’t know how to go after hitters. We saw him do that quite effectively as a reliever. There’s something else going on.
I, for one, am not disappointed in Joba’s results to this point, but I am concerned about where he might be physically. I posted a quote here last week from Cashman admitting that Joba hasn’t had the same crispness/velocity since the Texas game last August. If he was a 90-92 MPH pitcher, fine. But he isn’t. We saw him last year at 97 in the 7th inning, so we know he can throw that hard and maintain it as a starter. It isn’t just a case of pacing himself to throw 7 or 8 innings. Something is going on mechanics-wise or health-wise. When a pitcher who can throw 97 consistently is throwing 90-92, the radar gun does mean something. It is telling you that something isn’t right.
joeman July 1st, 2009 at 12:48 pm
Bruney stinks & so does Hinske ( don’t care what they are paying for him)….they haven’t & won’t beat the Red Sox this year with him(Bruney) as a 8th inning RP
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You’re the same guy who predicted the Yanks would be 8-9 games out of 1st Place by Memorial Day.
So forgive me if I roll my eyes when I read all the other nonsense you spew.
Same clowns who were riding Hughes after his Baltimore start. Grow up. It’s very rare to find pitchers who have it all figured out by age 23…especially if some of their experience comes in the form of NCAA innings. Yeah, I know Doc Gooden had an ERA+ of 228 in his age 20 year. But, guess what? He could have been one of the very best pitchers ever.
Maddux had rounded into form by age 23, but he started his professional career at 18. Martinez was rounding into form by age 23, but he threw 77 innings on the Dodgers rookie league team at age 18.
Otherwise, I don’t need to overwhelm you with a list of guys who started hot but have flamed out with talent/injury issues. Or guys who started slow but became dominant pitchers.
You people just need to relax and grow up. You had no idea who Joba was until late 2007. And you developed a set of insane expectations on the basis of 25 IP.
Hokiehill
July 1st, 2009 at 12:41 pm
I think this is an example of the high expectations and lack of patience. He is supposed to have #1 and #2 stuff but he’s not going to be there this early in his development…it is reasonable to expect Joba to END UP as a guy with #1 and #2 stuff but it’s not reasonable to expect him to start with it.
===========================================================
Agreed, and the Yankees are showing more patience then most of us fans for sure.
I’m not one of those that say he should go back to the pen, but I think it is reasonable think that he would be better this than last year.
And to that, his fastball at 90-92 is not #1 or #2 stuff like last year’s 95-96.
He will get better as the year goes on if he’s not hurt.
18 Johnny Damon CF
11 Bill Mueller 3B
24 Manny Ramírez LF
34 David Ortiz DH
15 Kevin Millar 1B
19 Gabe Kapler RF
33 Jason Varitek C
12 Mark Bellhorn 2B
3 Pokey Reese SS
45 Pedro Martínez
Phil has shown, without a doubt, that he will be a big league starter. Whether it’s a #1 or a #3 type, it is soon to be seen, but he will be a big league starter.
It’s interesting that while Joba has shown that he has the stuff to be an ace, he has not actually shown that can can be an ace, or even a #3. Sure, the potential for it is there, but it’s not been proven yet.
Joba is in the rotation, anyway, and Phil is in the bullpen. There’s no doubt that right now, Phil has better “stuff” than Joba. Joba shows flashes in his starts of his amazing stuff, but Phil’s fastball (and im talking about starts) has had more zip on it and his cutter and curve have worked wonderfully.
I’m not advocating a flip between Joba and Phil, but I do think that it’s ironic that Phil, the one we always knew would be a starter, is in the BP and Joba, the one half the fans want in the BP, is starting.
Fun stuff.
Another one of Madden’s brilliant ramblings. What a joke.
You have to love the “If the Yankees are foolish” they could throw $100 million at Teixeira.
Yeah, because you don’t want gold-glove, high .OBP, first basemen who hit 30 + home runs and 100 +RBIs and are in the prime of their careers. Better stay away from those.
And, because dumping a 37-year old catcher at first base who’s never played the position would have really helped the team defense.
Just salient points by Madden.
they should have traded Bruney & a minor leaguer for DeRosa & go out and get a 8th inning RP Qualls or Sherrill, they would then be the WS favorites
Oops sorry,
I was trying to make another un-official “steroid list” .
You can see where that was going.
I don’t think it’s fair to put an unconfirmed, most likely bogus list of names out there. No credible media outlet is reporting it and adding it here isn’t the right thing to do.
Also, notice that Joba hasn’t gotten the swings and misses on his hard slider like we are used to. When he is throwing harder, the hitters have to commit sooner to the pitch, and the slider is devastating. Now, we see a lot of takes and check swings. When Joba is right, those check swings are weak full swings. Because of this, Joba has had to ease up on it a bit to try to throw it for strikes. He has had success with this, but a slider thrown for a strike is more likely to get hit hard than one thrown out of the zone that the hitter can’t help but wave at. Some of this is scouting and hitters seeing him more, but a lot is the velocity drop, IMO.
The biggest difference between Joba and Hughes right now is their moxie and confidence in their ability.
Hughes right now is letting it fly and attacking hitters like he owns the place. And frankly, he does.
He’s not afraid of anyone and his moxie is off the charts.
Joba was the same way last July in the rotation. The guy was unhittable. He was blowing hitters away and pounding the zone with regularity.
He doesn’t have that same moxie now. He’s trying to be too fine and doesn’t attack hitters the same way.
Joba will eventually get that back. Maybe a few good outings in a row will help him get to that next step.
Boy, Bruney has fallen quickly out of favor, eh?
Couple rough outings his past few times out, but he’s still a potentially useful pitcher. I think he’s another who folks had excessive expectations for.
they were 27-21 thur the months of Apr & May,thanks to a 9 game winning streak. thats a $200 mil team …WOW!!!!!
so the National have managed 4 hits and a run off Josh Johnson in 3 innings
joeman July 1st, 2009 at 1:02 pm
they were 27-21 thur the months of Apr & May,thanks to a 9 game winning streak. thats a $200 mil team …WOW!!!!!
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And didn’t have their best player in the middle of the lineup for 28 games!!!!!
WOW!!!!!
Hughes has the look like he can get the ball over & get people out Joba dosen’t
Steve B-I agree. Bruney was supposedly the “savior”.
Hughesie, as Joe called him, should be our eighth inning guy. And if he could, seventh inning guy too. I guess though you use Bruney in the seventh, Hughesie in the 8th.
Bruney is still a usefull pitcher but he’s had injury difficulties…I was hoping the lack of facial hair would be enough but unfortunately it was not. I still think he’ll get back to pitching well sooner rather than later. I’m glad Girardi and Cashman don’t hold quite as short a rope as most of us do, otherwise the whole team would be hung by now
“Also, notice that Joba hasn’t gotten the swings and misses on his hard slider like we are used to. When he is throwing harder, the hitters have to commit sooner to the pitch, and the slider is devastating.”
He doesn’t throw it for strikes enough. Everyone lays off it. Don’t want to plagiarize SJ, but he’s mentioned this before and also discussed Joba’s game against the Red Sox, when he actually did throw the slider for strikes. It was apparent the Red Sox were intent on not swinging at the slider going in. When he ended up throwing it for strikes, they were all caught looking. 10 of his 12 strikeouts were looking and most were on sliders.
I think it’s become pretty obvious that there is something wrong with Joba either mechanically or physically. You don’t just go from throwing 95-96 consistently (and touching 98) as a starter at age 22 to throwing 91-92 (touching 95) at age 23, it’s not normal.
Ever since the Texas game, something happened, and the Yanks and Joba should really figure it out. Joba went from throwing a plus plus fastball to throwing a league average fastball, and that is not normal. The lack of velocity is what is causing him to nibble and rely more on the slider. If you look at Joba’s 3-2 counts this year, he throws the slider almost every time and the hitters know it is coming, lay off, and take it for ball four. In the past, when he had plus plus velocity, hitters could not sit on the slider because the fastball would blow by them, now that is not the case.
Also, if you look at Joba’s slider this year, it doesn’t have the same tight movement that it had in the past. I really believe that Joba has an issue physically or mechanically, because his pure “stuff” has regressed dramatically, and that is not normal for someone in their physical prime.
Let’s not give up on Bruney just yet
I like how a 3.81 era pitching in the al east is just “OK” especially for a 23 year old.
“Bruney is still a usefull pitcher but he’s had injury difficulties”
That’s the thing, Hokie. He’s never done it consistently or over a full season in his career. I think people bought a little too much into what he did in limited innings last season and deemed him THE 8th inning guy, when his history really didn’t suggest he can consistently do it effectively…or without getting hurt.
Steve B,
Personally, I don’t have excessive expectations for Bruney. I’ve watched him since he got to New York. He runs hot and cold.
The issue now is, is he really healthy? Especially since he was less than forthcoming just a month ago.
He’s had 3 “bad” appearances since he came back. That’s not shaking rust.
So, I’m not dumping on Bruney. Just saying he’s not back. If Cash really cares about mariano, he’ll put Hughes in the 8th inning until Bruney has proven that he’s back.
Shred-I agree about the fastball but not his other stuff.
Question then: At what point do we say that Joba just won’t be as good a starter as we thought, and should be put back in the pen?
I’m not advocating Joba to the pen after about one full season of starting. But there has to point to be a point, if he keeps being mediocre, that we have to consider it. When?
vito b-Innings pitched.
Last year Hughes was nothing and Joba was everything for Kay. This year he can’t stop raving about Yuse in the pen and can’t stop perseverating on Joba’s fastball velocity.
The complete inconsistency is irrelevant. There is no sense of irony at all.
Rather than perhaps thinking about what’s happened with Yuse and drawing the conclusion that he was wrong because he mistaked inconsistency for ability in a young pitcher who is going to go through ups and downs Kay is just repeating the pattern with Joba this year.
==============================
Agreed with this and everything else you wrote.
Jobber(or any young pitcher) is gonna have ups and downs. Sure it’s hard to watch at times, but I expected it. Gotta have patience and see how it goes
Not sure if it’s been mentioned here but did anyone see the clip of the red sox ALL (that’s right even the always in the game Dustin “Topo Gigo” Pedroia)running off the field wtih 2 outs in the sixth inning last night.
What worries me is the drop in velocity.
Steve B,
That’s my point about the slider, though. When his velocity is 96-98, you can decide not to swing at the slider, but you don’t have the time to recognize it and lay off. That is why he could throw it out of the zone before. Now, hitters have the time to identify it and not offer at it, so he has to throw the slider for strikes to be effective.
This is a post I wrote earlier today on Joba…
Just read through some of the earlier comments today. I’d like to add a little to the Joba conversation.
I actually do have a problem with his postgame interviews. People may say who cares, its his performance on the field that counts. Well that’s true, but what he says off the field tells a lot.
It pisses me off to hear him start every postgame interview where he pitches ok to bad with this great nugget: ” You have to remember, this is my first year doing this.” Are you kidding? You’ve been pitching your whole life. Through college, the minors, and now the big leagues since 2007. OK so he was a reliever for awhile in 2007.
Big deal. He was a starter last year and a starter this year. The way he talks, you would think he played the outfield his whole life and was converted to a pitcher this year. Its a ridiculous comment and a lame excuse.
Why don’t you go after hitters? Why do you seem to have this blaise attitude on the mound? Why do you feel (by your answers) that your performance is good enough?
This guy is held to a higher standard because he has gifts few pitchers have. He has 4 plus pitches. He throws gas when his mechanics are correct. I understand he’s young and he’s learning. But that’s no reason to act the way he does. Frankly, I believe he thinks he’s better than he really is. Maybe he was that good in 2007, but not now.
Remember back in the winter of 2008 when Joba rejected his contract offer and the team had to renew it. IMO the money is more important to him than the success of the team. He’s so focused on staying a starter so he can get that big payday that his performance is suffering. Its obvious he’s not giving max effort, whether he’s worried about getting hurt or not.
He’s talented enough to have success gliding through his starts, but the electricity and dominance are non-existent. He’s just trying to prove he can make it through the season and be a starter. IMO he’s not pushing himself like he can.
This opinion will probably be very unpopular on this board but that’s the way I feel.
I was just reading a Keith Law chat from a week ago, he usually has a lot of great insights and information (especially on prospects). Anyways, I thought this was a funny quote,
“More baseball deaths from DUI in the past two years than from PED usage in the past forever.”
Really puts it in perspective. We give a pass to guys like Tony La Russa, Joba, etc who get caught driving while drunk but we demonize A-rod, Manny, etc who took steroids. Seems a bit silly to me.
It’s interesting, steroids and HGH have never really been proven to help performance and they don’t hurt others (only those that take them). Why do we hate steroid users so freaking much? Is it because baseball writers have decided they are guilty sinners?
How is steroid use worse than the rampant use of “greenies” throughout baseball history?
I’m not advocating steroid use, I just think these are interesting questions to think about.
Yankee U-Yeah, I had to laugh.
Top three games of the year, IMO, have all been AL East.
1. One of the best comebacks IMO in reg. season history as the Rays blow a 10 run lead in the final two innings, including being up by six with 2 down in the ninth.
2. The Orioles come back from 9 runs down vs. the Sox and set a record for biggest comeback with a last place team vs. a first place team.
3. The NY Mets shock the baseball world as Omir Santos hits a 2 out bottom of the ninth go ahead HR to give the Metsies the lead after a thrilling pitcher’s duel, then close it out with uncharacteristicly great defense.
Putting Joba back in the pen is not going to restore 98 MPH if he doesn’t have it in him. I don’t think his drop is a pacing issue, he threw nearly as hard as a starter last year as he did as a reliever.
Joba’s statistical results are actually pretty encouraging, but if you really watch him pitch, he’s simply not the same, and a move to the bullpen isn’t the answer. Joba is a power pitcher without a power fastball, and that is really troubling.
On full counts he ALWAYS throws the slider, and the hitter ALWAYS knows it’s coming, and this is 100% attributed to his lack of fastball velocity. If Joba was still throwing 96, he wouldn’t be afraid to throw the fastball in the zone, having the confidence he could still generate swings and misses. Now, Joba doesn’t trust the fastball, and the slider is his sole out pitch, and the hitter thinks right along with him.
When Joba does use his fastball, he nibbles and throws it off the plate where hitters won’t even offer at it, and when it is thrown over the plate, the swings and misses just aren’t there anymore.
There must be a physical/mechanical issue with Joba, because healthy 24 year olds don’t just lose 5 mph off the fastball in one calendar year.
Francessa made a good point…. Joba’s ERA is good because the Yankees are so cautious with him. They never let him get beat up and always yank him when he is in trouble late and thus, his ERA looks good. They always take him out after 100 pitches and don’t push him to see what he is made of. Like the Mets game, he was taken out after 4 innings/100 pitches. Why not let him start the 5th?
Joba’s leash is so short that it is no wonder his ERA is so low.
Patrick-I always looked at it as I’m a fan of the player, not the person. Off the field, short of (deliberate) murder they could do what they want and I’d care less, but on the field I always hope they don’t cheat.
I do think it might be the move from the pen causing this. Look how much Hughesie’s fastball velocity went up.
Perhaps the answer is to stick him in the pen until his velocity is back to normal, then put him back in the starting rotation.
miggs,
Some interesting points, but I don’t believe for a second that Joba’s not competing. How can he not try his best?
I think he is, and it’s still not what it was last season.
There’s gots to be a reason. The shoulder? mechanics? Leg strength? Something personal weighing on his mind? NYS?
Lots of things going on here. Joba is by no stretch of the imagination doing a bad job. But we’ve seen better from him, and I think that concerns a lot of people. Worry might be a better way of putting it.
In some ways, we’re seeing a little bit of what happened to Wang. Where we know something’s wrong, but pinpointing the problem and fixing it may take time.
A lot of people say he’s only 23, and give him time. Absolutely true. But Joba’s different and I don’t think this is part of the up and down struggles of a young pitcher.
Miggs:
Kinda half agree. He’s young and not all that brilliant, so even though he said that and made it sound as though this was his first time in New York and he needed Mapquest directions to find the plate, I don’t think that was his point.
My questions about him are more along the lines of is he resistant to being coached? Surely mechanics are being discussed with him, yet most times out, he’s all over the place. Then there’s the issue of chronically shaking off his catchers (though in fairness, that hasn’t been as big an issue his last couple times out). Makes you wonder whether he trust what he wants to throw too much or doesn’t trust what he’s being asked to throw enough.
How bout them Sux blowing a 9 run lead with 9 outs
They must have been channeling their inner New York Met
CB,
It’s not black and white with fans criticism and praise of Hughes just as it’s not black and white with fans criticism and praise of Cano.
In both cases, these were guys we knew or had heard were supremely talented and it was frustrating watching them struggle.
Until recently this season, Hughes was not showing the fastball he currently is and his secondary pitches needed work. A year in AAA seemed to be the best medicine, but I applaud the Yankees for realizing it’s smarter to use your best arms at the big league level and try to develop them up here.
I think what we’re seeing is Hughes being developed by becoming a bull pen arm. It’s forcing him to use his Fastball differently than he was and I think when he returns to starting he’s going to be all that much better for it.
I almost think when Joba hits his innings limit and goes back to the pen, that’s also going to help him rediscover his heater.
A lot of the consensus in here, at least to me, were fans were split over Hughes needing more development and Hughes being ready to be the “phranchise”.
I’m happy to see him excel in the pen. Frankly, we needed someone to step up out there with Aceves and Coke to help Mo.
That said, I don’t take back a single thought I had about Hughes when he was hitting 100 pitches in the 3rd inning and his stuff looked mediocre. The straight fastball. No secondary pitches.
He’s pushed past that and that’s awesome to see.
What Hughes is essentially doing is teaching Yankee fans patience. It’s a good thing.
miggs-You’re right it is unpopular, lol. I disagree.
People are searching desperately for someone to blame. While Joba of course is to balme for not pitching well, there is no evidence pointing to the fact that he cares more about money than the sucess of the team, or that he’s not trying hard enough. In fact, I thought Jobba has handled this very well.
Patrick —
Good stuff there and exactly on target. Most of those who are intent on demonizing steroid users obviously don’t understand what they do and just as importantly what they don’t do. Steroids are PEDs… so too are amphetemines… nicotine from chewing tobacco or “dipping” is a PED… one category is Satan incarnate and the others are greeeted with an “ooh well”.
No question drunk drivers are a far greater threat to society than PEDs, but I also see LaRussa and Joba a whole lot differently than I view Stallworth and Leyritz among others.
as much as Joba brings up the fact that he’s new at this, learning, etc he also says things like, “I need to keep working” etc, etc… people just pick out the pieces they want and use them to draw the conclusions they want. Joba wants to be a great pitcher and win a lot of games…whether he wants to do that for money, records or because he just likes to win is not a factor for me, as long as he wants to win and puts in the effort to make that happen.
My best guess is that there is something physically wrong with Joba and he is trying to cover with defensiveness in his interviews.
Hokiehill-Agreed.
Just to clairify…I didn’t mean to say Joba wasn’t trying.
I meant he isn’t pushing himself like he can. He doesn’t seem to reach back for the extra few MPH to put a guy away. He nibbles, tries to get guys to chase. Just challenge these hitters, that’s all I’m asking.
It seems like he’s just trying to skate by, and he’s talented enough to do that.
But he could be great. Electric. Dominating. That’s the issue IMO.
I think Joba’s mechanics are just fine. I believe he is pacing himself and not throwing the fastball often enough and those are two things that guarantee a loss of velocity.
I’d love to see him pound the strike zone with 60-70 percent heaters for his next start and see what happens.
what gets me with the steroid uproar is the lack of perspective in relation to the fact that baseball players have been taking drugs like amphetamines for a long time with no one seeming to care at all…this goes into the debate over what to do with players that used PEDS and the hall of fame. I personally think that if you are going to keep them out, then you need to throw out any player who’s been suspected of or known to use amphetamines in their career, throw out any player ever caught with a corked bat, using vaseline, spit balls, etc…any player that was ever caught or suspected of “cheating” in any form should be removed and banned. Since that’s not going to happen the HOF voters need to just get off their high horse and let in deserving players based on statistics/performance alone.
“No question drunk drivers are a far greater threat to society than PEDs, but I also see LaRussa and Joba a whole lot differently than I view Stallworth and Leyritz among others. ”
Good post but I’m not too sure I agree with this distinction. The only difference between Joba/LaRussa and Stallworth/Leyritz is that Stallworth/Leyritz had the bad luck of actually hitting someone. All 4 guys made the same mistake.
miggs-Nah, I disagree.
Joba is doing what he thinks is the best he can. Can he do better? Yes, he’s proven that. Is he not trying to do better? I think so.
HokieHill I agree.
HOF should be decided by comparing a player’s stats to the stats of other players in that era. Sure, Sammy Sosa did steroids but he also hit 600 freaking homeruns. That’s absurdly good no matter what he put in his body. First ballot HoF IMO.
Same goes for Manny, A-rod, Clemens, etc
Yankees fans will never ever learn patience. There will be another Phil Hughes equivalent in the near future in terms of a talented youngster coming up and struggling amidst a lot of hype, and the fans will turn on him just as everyone ripped Hughes for having mediocre stuff and not being cut out for the big leagues. The difference is the Yankees are sticking with their youngsters in spite of obnoxious cries from shortsighted fans.
PAtrick — I’m sorry drunk driving and killing someone while driving druink are not the same mistake. That’s like saying armed robbery and carrying an illegal firearm are the same “mistake”.
Some people — and I’m sure I’m one of them — are damn lucky they never did property or bodily damage because they drove when they shouldn’t have. However having the potential to commit a crime is not the same thing as actually doing it.
I think fair minded Hall voters will not treat power stats the same way and will insist that anyone getting their vote were great all around players. Palmeiro, for example was Mark Grace before he apparently started taking… so despite his numbers he would not get my vote… neither would McGuire. Sheefield probably not, but Sammy probably would because he has stolen base totals and in his time was a decent enough outfielder. Alex, Clemens and Bonds absolutely.
“That the mainstream media has passed on this should tell you a little something, no?”
Oh, yes, Pete. The mainstream media ignoring steroid information tells me a whole lot. Thank you for keeping me informed of what I should pay attention to.
Now if you’ll excuse me, Cubs-Cards is on and I think Sosa and McGuire might both hit homeruns today!