Game 81: Blue Jays at Yankees
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- July
- 5
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UPDATE: Today’s Scranton game was postponed due to a wet field. No word yet on a make-up game or refunds.
YANKEES (47-33)
Jeter SS
Damon LF
Teixeira 1B
Posada C
Matsui DH
Swisher RF
Cano 2B
Cabrera CF
Ransom 3B
Pitching: RHP Joba Chamberlain (4-2, 3.89).
TIME/TV: 1:05 p.m., YES.
HALFWAY THERE: Today is the midway point of the season, believe it or not.
NO A-ROD: As he said he would, Joe Girardi is giving Alex a day off. Given what he did after his last break, there can be no complaints from the populace. We all must follow Dr. Philippon’s rules, after all.
MOLINA REHAB SWITCH: Jose Molina is now scheduled to make a rehabilitation start for the Double-A Trenton Thunder today instead of Triple-A Scranton. Because of poor field conditions, there seems to be a chance that today’s Scranton game will be postponed.
OTHER NOTES: LHP Brett Cecil starts for Toronto. … Yankees have won nine of 10. … Toronto third baseman Scott Rolen has a 21-game hit streak, the longest of his career. … Milestone watch: Johnny Damon now has 199 home runs and Hideki Matsui has scored 499 runs.
I’m off to Scranton to meet up with a bunch of readers for our annual outing. So that’ll be it for the updates today in terms of the Yankees game. I’m hoping to post something from Scranton later on.
Enjoy the game.
UPDATE, 12:31 p.m.: Mike Dougherty, who is covering the game today, sends along these comments from Joe GirardI:
On Hughes: “I can say one thing, I don’t see us taking him out of that role right now. He’s probably less built up than anyone that we have so he will probably not be one of our options. … I see him staying in the bullpen.”
Hughes, down the road, is he still a starter?
“I still believe that he is a starter. You’ll see a lot of young pitchers that come up and have success in the bull pen and then the move them over to the rotation because on any given day you’re not asking too much from them in a sense. I think his stuff right now plays out well in both, but I think he’s been really, really good in the bullpen and has been really helpful to us, and that’s another reason that we might keep him there for a while. And the other thing is he’s not built up, and it’s tough to build them up here. You would have to send him down for a while and we’re not comfortable doing that right now with the way he’s throwing the baseball.”
So, it’s not going to be Hughes.
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on Sunday, July 5th, 2009 at 11:32 am by Peter Abraham.
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does a 15 day dl stint count as a roster spot?
60 day?
i thought if you are on the dl it does not count as a roster spot?
send alby down wich puts the pen back too the traditional 7 pitchers too go along with 5 starters(12) total & bring up a pitcher.
i am sure i am missing something but don’t know what.
Damn they should give Hinske a chance.
ninske better play tommorow
of course the Red Sox miss Zach Greinke next week
hinske
hinske
Terrible lineup
Why can’t A-Rod be the DH?
Why Ransom over Hinske?
Where is Gardner? How is he going to prove he can be an everyday player if he only plays 3 times a week?
Hinske is LH. Do you all even think before you start whining about the lineup?
At least Cano isn’t batting 5th.
Glad to see Girardi finally moved Cano down in the line-up.
“Why can’t A-Rod be the DH?”
He needs a full day off.
“Why Ransom over Hinske?”
Ransom is right-handed.
“Where is Gardner? How is he going to prove he can be an everyday player if he only plays 3 times a week?”
He’s not an everyday player and he’s also 0-14.
We’re facing a lot of lefties lately
We faced Washburn, Vargas, Tallet.. and in our next 5 games we face Mills, Romero, Perkins, and Liriano in 4 of them, all lefties.
everybody needs to play at least once in a while.
you can’t keep swish,melky,ransom,hinske on the bench forever.
jays throwing a lefty??
might be a lot of pinch hitters today.gardner,hinske,arod.
Dan,
Gardner has cooled off considerably since the 5 for 5 game.
It was only BP but Hinske was raking.
Looks ready to play
Hinski will PH late in the game (if needed) for Ransom.
Dan
July 5th, 2009 at 11:35 am
Terrible lineup
Why can’t A-Rod be the DH?
Why Ransom over Hinske?
Where is Gardner? How is he going to prove he can be an everyday player if he only plays 3 times a week?
—————————————————
1) Because a day-off doesn’t mean “half day-off.”
2) Left handed pitcher.
3) Left handed pitcher.
Hinske vs Brett Cecil no thanks. He can be a weapon off the bench, if he gets on Gardenhoser PR for him. What’s the problem, soon they will give Johnny or Swish a rest, Hinske will bat in his place.
BACK TO WHAT WE WERE DISCUSSING.
This is how I would go
spot start Ivan Nova or Zach McAllister on Thursday.
ASB try to land a 5th SP, Yes a guy like Bronson Arroyo
, so that if Wang returns Arroyo 
or whoever goes into the BP.
If not move Aceves into the 5th slot, replace him in the BP w. Sergio Mitre. Bruney to Coke to Yusssse to Mo. That should be around 30-40 wins right there and our magic number is 81 to clinch a PO spot. Just get in.
“Hinske is LH. Do you all even think before you start whining about the lineup?”
Do not pay attention to the kids. We need to be patient with them
Why not just start Tomko in Wang’s spot?
He is a veteran and can stretch himself out and has been a starter most of his career.
Tomko could provide league average production from the #5 spot.
“Hinski will PH late in the game (if needed) for Ransom.”
a member of the Common Sense Club
“Why not just start Tomko in Wang’s spot?”
Because HR derby is not until 2 wks.
Play 2 lefties against Cecil? No thank you.
“Glad to see Girardi finally moved Cano down in the line-up.”
Also, it is telling to see Matsui in the 5th spot.
If he keeps up his recent surge, he will protect R-Rod.
“Where is Hinske?!!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?”
On the 25
“Where is Hinske?!!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?”
Hinske vs Brett Cecil no thanks. He can be a weapon off the bench, if he gets on Gardenhoser PR for him. What’s the problem, soon they will give Johnny or Swish a rest, Hinske will bat in his place.
You clearly are not as AWESOME as me.
Looking forward to today’s SWB game, I’ll be the one with the rusty Saab and the beautiful girlfrennnn. Hope they can play today. Currently we are making our way along the backroads of NJ. Lots of strip malls. I think I like the backroads of Vermont better.
Brandon… I’M AWESOME !
July 5th, 2009 at 11:45 am
“Why not just start Tomko in Wang’s spot?”
Because HR derby is not until 2 wks
————————————————————
lmfao.
i am sure girardi & cash are considering a lot of things.
tomko,igawa,mcallister,nova.
with the money paid to igawa i would not be suprised if he gets the start.
you never know.
i don’t know much about nova or mcallister but would love for another pitcher to emerge to give us some debth.
mcallister is the name i hear a lot.
So glad to see cano out of the five spot After witnessing yesterdays torture in person
Bring up McAllister
We brought up Chase Wright straight from AA a couple years ago
hinske hit 20 hr’s & 80 rbi’s in 381 ab last season.
not bad
bru if sunglasses gets that start we RIOT !
Nova or McAllister, pick one for the spot coffee start. Give them a taste how it is then address the 5th slot internally or go get a Bronson Arroyo
“Where is Hinske?!!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?”
Bonding with Alex and Brett today.
is nova in AAA ?
does he have good stuff?
who is better mcallister or nova?
So is Hinkse ever going to play? I don’t get it, Joe…….
GF, it’s odd because Wang’s injury was not as bad as feared……but for purposes of what the Yankees options are, it’s not good because there is such a gray area. I would never want Wang gone for the season, but I admit that even if he comes back, he’s highly doubtful to be at his best…..and would I want him in a post-season rotation? If Phil is already in the rotation (and doing well), I think he has to stay there even if Wang does come back (and if Phil is in the rotation, it means that we’re likely talking a late August/September return for Wang – not fair to take Phil out, even forgetting the potential arm issues). Once Phil is in the rotation, he has to stay there – Wang, I’m sorry to say, would be in the pen. I don’t even know what the Yanks would do in the playoffs if they made it – how can Phil go back to the pen without ruining his arm? This really sucks.
Yankees should bench Cano. And have Hinske play third
Ok, never mind……my head was in the clouds, I forgot it was a lefty on the mound today
Has anyone considered asking Dr. Phillipon what to do about Robinson Cano?
Nova or McAllister aren’t getting called up, get that out of your head.
It’ll either be Mitre or a split start between Hughes/Aceves
It was a mistake to put Hughes in the pen…
I’d go Nova because if he has a good start you raise his stock, I go McAllister b/c if he’s as good as he is and advanced as he is he should be able to go 5-6 IP. This is a spot start, either way this not throwing him or Nova into the fire of being the 5th SP this season, it’s just a spot start, like Tyler Clippard had and Chase Wright had.
Unfortunate timing for Hinske that we’re facing all these lefties in a row. He’ll prob get a start on Tuesday against Scott Baker.
I guess the 0-6 swayed Girardi a bit. He’ll be back when A-Rod’s in the line-up.
What is there not to get? Hinske is a LH hitter and Cecil is LH.
It ain’t hard to figure out.
“is nova in AAA ?
does he have good stuff?
who is better mcallister or nova?”
Nova is in AAA
He was sitting 90-94 mph in the last start, he has GO stuff.
McAllister according to SJ he was tutored by Curt Schilling and someone else.
What did Dr. Phillipon say about Hughes?
Anybody watching Wimbledon? Just went to the 5th set.
“does he have good stuff?”
Ask the padres.
Why is Gardner taking BP? He isin’t even playing lmao
I agree, Cano should sit every once in a while. But having A-Rod and Cano out at the same time probably isn’t a good idea. Too bad about Wang. I hope he comes back stronger.
wfan talking about the yankees pitching choices now.
saying leave hughes in the pen.
i agree.
mitre,tomko,igawa prob gets the starts.
i bet they go with tomko or mitre.
“Why is Gardner taking BP? He isin’t even playing lmao”
everyone takes BP genius.
splitting ace & hughes would be stupid.
lets just trade for halladay & call it a day.
j/k
Fran,
I am. Been up since 3:00 watching it. I’m cheering for Andy and my son’s cheering for Federer.
Kids. They don’t know anything.
bru that was a fan talking to a WFAN host, safe to say they don’t know what they are talking about and are piggy backing Jack Curry’s article.
Will be an interesting road trip
Sabathia vs. Baker
Burnett vs. Perkins
Mitre? vs. Liriano
Pettitte vs. Weaver
Joba vs. Lackey
Sabathia vs. Saunders
Maybe they didn’t know the lefty match-up presented with Cecil and Hinske.
What makes you guys think snapping at posters who weren’t aware or just don’t know about match-ups is less annoying than trolls?
Trolls…tools….same thing.
“It was a mistake to put Hughes in the pen…”
No it wasn’t.
You want Hughes dominating AAA players when he has proved all he needed to at that level. This while Albaladejo or Edwar Ramirez is appearing in high leverage situations for the Yankees in games that actually count.
Like SJ44 said, if you factor in Hughes AAA innings into his total, he’ll easily be able to fill the 5th starter role next year. If he’s short a few innings, throw him in winter ball to get him up to 120 or whatever the magic number is.
Pete Caldera in his Pinstripe Posts blog in the Bergen Record pulls together some figures that might help explain how Girardi could defend for so long the notion that Cano is a number five hitter.
http://njmg.typepad.com/yankee.....mbers.html
Brandon, I don’t see a recent Jack Curry article on Phil on the Times website- what did he say? Thanks
mel, I would like to see Andy (the other ARod) win as well.
“Has anyone considered asking Dr. Phillipon what to do about Robinson Cano?”
The problem’s in Cano’s head, not his hip
bru July 5th, 2009 at 12:02 pm
wfan talking about the yankees pitching choices now.
saying leave hughes in the pen.
i agree.
mitre,tomko,igawa prob gets the starts.
i bet they go with tomko or mitre.
—————-
Of course they want to keep Hughes in the pen. But these are the same people who have clamored for two years that Joba needed to go to the pen as well since he could be the next Goose Gossage.
Talk radio and a large number of NY columnists are pretty clueless when it comes to logical thinking.
Brandon… I’M AWESOME !
July 5th, 2009 at 12:04 pm
bru that was a fan talking to a WFAN host, safe to say they don’t know what they are talking about and are piggy backing Jack Curry’s article.
————————————————————
yes but they said mitre,tomko or someone else will or can fill in wich is right in line with what they will do.
nobody knows.i am sure cash & girardi don’t know for sure or didn’t for a while.
i would not be at all suprised if tomko or igawa get the start(s).
it will also have a lot to do with what days the pitchers line up when needed.
i do not however see hughes or ace getting the start(s) or splitting a start or starts.
Halfway there at 47-33 … not bad all things considered. On a 95+ win pace with A-Rod, Wang, Matsui and both catchers out or down for as much collective time as they are/were. Plus Tex’s slow start and the team being generally stomped on by Boston so far. I can see 100 wins being possible. And a little rebound against Boston too.
“Don’t worry Mitre wont sniff the playoffs”
Playoffs? The regular season doesn’t end until Oct 4 this year.
The yankees have a very tough end of the year schedule.
In september they play 6 games with Toronto, 3 with the Sox, 4 games with the Angels. They also have a 6 game west coast swing to Seattle and LA. They play 3 games with Tampa Bay in Sept and then close the season with 3 games at tamps bay.
That is a brutal stretch run schedule. And they are going to need outstanding starting pitching if they are going to do well to end the season.
They aren’t going to be able to toy with the rotation. If Mitre is in the rotation he is going to pitch big games down the stretch. There is no question about it. None.
_______
And again you have no idea how much time Wang is going to be on the DL. So over reacting now is completely useless. Why not wait and see I think we can handle 3-4 starts from a serviceable 5th stater. Maybe Wang misses 3-4 starts maybe 8-10. I don’t know, you don’t know so stop overacting. Don’t worry the Sox, and the Rays wont go 81-0.
Jack July 5th, 2009 at 12:01 pm
Why is Gardner taking BP? He isin’t even playing lmao
——————————
I see everyone took extra doses of stupid pills today.
IDK if it was Curry or some other guy, he basically said Mitre is the guy who will prbly get the start. I still don’t get why people think that, I think Mitre has made 7 starts off of rehab, those numbers w/ RISP and runners on are not a good thing to see. He’s more of a long reliever.
Dan July 5th, 2009 at 11:35 am
Where is Gardner? How is he going to prove he can be an everyday player if he only plays 3 times a week?
======================
Interesting note: since Gardner was 5-6, he is 0-14.
miggs,
Putting Hughes in the bullpen was a mistake for this very situation. He was supposed to be the sixth starter. You can’t expect all five of your starters to stay healthy for the whole year.
Just a lack of foresight on Cashman’s part.
Another question to consider: How does Wang’s injury affect Joba?
Many have speculated that as the #5 starter, Joba would occasionally be skipped in the rotation to get him through the year on his innings limit.
This may have been the few weeks they were planning on that.
The bright side of him averaging only 5.1 innings a game?
i don’t think hughes should stay in the pen but i think he should for now unless we trade for an 8th inning arm.
i believe hughes can be replaced in the pen by auditions or a trade.
it just mike take a while unless we make a trade.
i would of left hughes in the rotation & wang on the dl until the as break or close to it.
i liked the pitching debth that we had & needed.
very tough spot.hughes helps us & needs to stay up & wang needed to be in the starting rotation,
2 options.put hughes in the pen or send him down.
you can make a case for both.
Jobber better pitch 7 innings today
We have nobody in the pen except Everyday Aceves
I was looking forward to reading today’s post Wang comments….Some interesting takes and of course there’s the Sunday’s funnies……I would be shocked and bewildered if Cashamn decides to create an additional hole by taking Phil Hughes out of the bullpen….Mitre maybe a solution, however I look for Cashman to be making a call to Drayton Moore of the KC Royals about Bannister’s availability…..Cashman is going to get a starter from outside the organization just as he’s going to get a righthand hitter as well…..SUddenly finding another arm for the pen dropped to # 3 on the list of importance
Teixeira never need a rest ?
Will be an interesting road trip
Sabathia vs. Baker
Burnett vs. Perkins
Mitre? vs. Liriano
Pettitte vs. Weaver
Joba vs. Lackey
Sabathia vs. Saunders
3-3 trip i would take that
If AA has the best hitters to judge you look at Nova
Ivan Nova in 72.1 IP has allowed 19 ER, has 47 K’s to 31 BBs and an ERA of 2.36
He was moved to AAA b/c Kontos got hurt, went 5 IP and hasn’t allowed a run. We are talking perfect oppurtunity to spot start into the break and raise his value here.
Why do all the starting pitchers ware hoodies? It’s 80 degrees outside!!!
When does Nick Whiffer get his rest?? Preferably for a month or two!!
Just because you keep saying it doesn’t make it true.
It wasn’t a mistake to put Hughes in the pen and he isn’t leaving the pen anytime soon.
At this point, its a moot point to discuss it unless the Yankees change their minds.
Sabathia vs. Baker – Win
Burnett vs. Perkins – Win
Mitre? vs. Liriano – Loss
Pettitte vs. Weaver – Loss
Joba vs. Lackey – Win
Sabathia vs. Saunders – Loss
3-3
“When does Nick Whiffer get his rest?? Preferably for a month or two!!”
Hopefully Hinske takes his spot once we start seeing some righties again.
Brandon… I’M AWESOME !
July 5th, 2009 at 12:15 pm
IDK if it was Curry or some other guy, he basically said Mitre is the guy who will prbly get the start. I still don’t get why people think that, I think Mitre has made 7 starts off of rehab, those numbers w/ RISP and runners on are not a good thing to see. He’s more of a long reliever.
————————————————————
mitre has terrible numbers.
i would go with someone else.
maybe we catch lightning in a bottle & come away with a future stud pitcher.
i have heard great things about mcallister.
doesn’t he pitch in a hitters park also???
Wow….you guys whine about the lineup like my 4yr old daughter about getting her hairbrushed!
Probably not the worst time for Wang to go down….As Joe said over at RAB, split thurs start between Hughes and Ace…send Phil down to get stretched out over another start for Trenton during the Allstar week and he should be good to go
George Streinbrenner’s birthday seems to be a good time for a reminder that Bud Selig’s revenue sharing has flattened the baseball earth. Salary cap or no salary cap. In this century, eight different teams have won nine World Series, compared to seven different NFL teams winning 10 Super Bowls, five different NBA teams winning 10 championships.
Ask Hal Steinbrenner and John Henry how much they’re funding the delicate balance of power. Ask Fred Wilpon, and he’ll point out that on July 4 the Florida Marlins are buyers and believe they can win the NL East.
======================================
From Peter Gammons. At least he had the grace to mention Henry. But really? At least spell check the Boss’ name.
SJ – You think they give a serious look to McAllister or Nova to replace Wang, or do they go with Mitre?
Brandon,
I have to agree with Pete from the last post. Why bring up Nova or McAllister when you would have to add them to the 40 man AND start their ML service clocks? Mitre (or dare I even suggest Igawa) is definitely the way to go.
Also, why would we trade for Bronson Arroyo to have him start maybe three times then move him to the bullpen? Especially since the Reds won’t give him away for free.
We’re going to give up prospects for a spot starter who would then be asked to pitch out of the pen, something he has never done regularly and hasn’t done at all in four years.
I’m sorry I just don’t get the logic.
SJ knows more about Z-Mac than I do, so does GB7, if it were me for a spot start going into the ASB use Nova, raise his stock hopefully going into the trade deadline.
Cano not batting 5th? ~does a little happy dance~
Who is George Streinbrenner?
Split the start makes no sense because you shorten the bullpen for 2 days because you are taking 2 bullpen guys out for one start.
Would they use McAllister for the start? Probably not.
Do people pay attention to these games?
Swisher has had a couple of days off the past two weeks.
Potch you DFA Nady or Garcia, it’s not that hard.
We’ve gone 3 days without a rain delay or threat of rain
I didn’t know what was allowed
Cano was probably going to get moved down in the order this week anyways because the team faces a lot of lefties.
Cano was moved down in the order last week against Washburn.
Francessa is off next week, I wanted to hear what his solution to the rotation was.
Fatcessa: get an innings eaters,*Bronson Arroyo*
, move Jobber into the 8th inning, Bruuuuney to the seventh, Yusssse into the rotation.
Isn’t it rather silly to start predicting which games are wins and which are losses? I admit I had chalked up yesterday’s game to an auto loss – but the Yankees had other ideas…..
It’s easy to say they shouldn’t have put Hughs in the pen now that there is an injury.
At the time they put him in the pen the choice was to do that or send him AAA.
It appears the choice they made was the right one at the time.
Now if they put Hughs back in the rotation they weaken the bp for the whole rotation.
If they find someone else to start they still have a strong bp and just one weaker sp.
You can play the what if game about the rest of the starters all you want but you can’t make decisions on what if’s.
trading for arroyo would not be smart.
he would cost too much.
interesting about starting the service time clock on nove & mcallister & having to add them to the roster.
mitre,igawa,tomko is probably what will happen even though i would love too see nova or mcallister & hopefully one of them looks good so we can get our hopes up a little.
i don’t think splitting hughes & ace would be wise but not alltogether out of the question.
igawa,mitre,tomko prob.
i see girardi’s love for mitre prevailing.
Potch July 5th, 2009 at 12:25 pm
Brandon,
I have to agree with Pete from the last post. Why bring up Nova or McAllister when you would have to add them to the 40 man AND start their ML service clocks? Mitre (or dare I even suggest Igawa) is definitely the way to go.
————-
It’s not uncommon for an organization to pluck kids out of Double-A to help the big club.
Pena got the nod in ST. Chase Wright was pulled from Trenton a couple of years back.
Hell, Joba was only in Scranton for a week in 2007 before he got the call to the bigs.
Giuseppe, Nova is in AAA.
Betsy July 5th, 2009 at 12:32 pm
Isn’t it rather silly to start predicting which games are wins and which are losses? I admit I had chalked up yesterday’s game to an auto loss – but the Yankees had other ideas…..
————–
Yep, and the Yanks weren’t supposed to beat Santana either.
But I’m sure many downplay those wins because Santana and Halladay weren’t on their game and they aren’t impressed unless those wins come against the Red Sox.
Francessa is off next week, I wanted to hear what his solution to the rotation was.
=======================
-Put Youuuuuse and Tomko into the rotation and put Jobber back where he belongs: da Bullpen
or
-Trade for Bronson Arroyo and put Youuuuuse back in the rotation and put Jobber in the pen
Whatever his solution would have been, it would involve putting Jobber back in the pen somehow
Can the Yankees DFA Nady? With him being on the DL and not coming back to play baseball for the rest of the season… if at all, it would make sense, but is this a move that is allowed?
I think Igawa is very unlikely. Every time he was pitching in the bigs he flopped. He isn’t on the 40 man anymore either.
I just don’t think he will be up.
UPDATE, 12:31 p.m.: Mike Dougherty, who is covering the game today, sends along these comments from Joe GirardI:
On Hughes: “I can say one thing, I don’t see us taking him out of that role right now. He’s probably less built up than anyone that we have so he will probably not be one of our options. … I see him staying in the bullpen.”
—————
Nice
Girardi’s comments are not surprising. Disappointing, but not surprising.
Brandon… I’M AWESOME ! July 5th, 2009 at 12:36 pm
Giuseppe, Nova is in AAA.
———-
I’m aware of that, but I was referring more to McAllister. Frankly, I’d have more faith in him than Nova.
He just throws more strikes.
Speaking of Nova, he was supposed to pitch today against Bowden. He wouldn’t be available to pitch Thursday anyways.
YES pre-game Kim Jones report:
http://www.zshare.net/audio/622679607365cbb2/
And this here is further proof the Hinske move was awful. Leave Pena alone, and don’t sign another “has been” like Angel Berrora (if they even qualify as such).
Help…
Is anyone else’s YES feed jumping and skipping? I’m not sure if it’s the feed or my connection.
m July 5th, 2009 at 12:41 pm
Girardi’s comments are not surprising. Disappointing, but not surprising.
—————
Agreed. This is precisely why I wasn’t a fan of moving him to the pen in the first place.
This team is going to be walking a tightrope every fifth day for awhile.
I wonder how the fans will love this non-move if and when Mitre gets hammered on a consistent basis.
Vince, Hinske has killed the AL East before, the last 2 yrs. he’s tasted the AL East Championship. What’s the problem ?
“UPDATE, 12:31 p.m.: Mike Dougherty, who is covering the game today, sends along these comments from Joe GirardI:
On Hughes: “I can say one thing, I don’t see us taking him out of that role right now. He’s probably less built up than anyone that we have so he will probably not be one of our options. … I see him staying in the bullpen.””
GI Joe thinking wisely.
why not start tomko and start stretching out hughes in the long relief role. This way P.Hugh can stretch himself out over the break and maybe be ready to throw 80 or so pitches in his next go-round.
“I wonder how the fans will love this non-move if and when Mitre gets hammered on a consistent basis.”
JC it’s a 5th starter, and how about when Mitre or whoever it is goes 5 IP – 6 IP ala Ponson, it’s not all doom and gloom.
Brandon,
Wrong. That’s desperation. If Bruney & Damaso had stayed healthy, this is a non-convo.
“Patrick July 5th, 2009 at 12:16 pm
miggs,
Putting Hughes in the bullpen was a mistake for this very situation. He was supposed to be the sixth starter. You can’t expect all five of your starters to stay healthy for the whole year.
Just a lack of foresight on Cashman’s part.”
I agree, I was mad at the fact they even took Hughes out of the Rotation after he put together some quality consistent starts and now when they can really use him again, he’s now a 1 inning guy, just bad management by Cashman…….and every fan has been holding their breath everytime Wang starts, he wasn’t supposed to be a 5 on a rotation, Joba or Pettite was supposed to be our 5…Wang is just too fragile and doesn’t intimidate any hitters anymore…build young Hughes back up and let him deal
YES pre-game Booth Report with Michael Kay and David Cone:
http://www.zshare.net/audio/62268114c78e8282/
At the very end, Michael Kay calls Nancy Newman “nasty” instead of Nancy. I lol’d.
“He’s probably less built up than anyone that we have so he will probably not be one of our options.”
I wonder why he’s not built up? It’s not like Girardi pulls him after 9 pitches, or after 1 inning in a tie game, or anything like that.
“why not start tomko and start stretching out hughes in the long relief role. This way P.Hugh can stretch himself out over the break and maybe be ready to throw 80 or so pitches in his next go-round.”
B/c Yusssse is in the BP this season. That decision has already been made.
Again Tomko can start in STL HR derby is 2 weeks away, he can pitch there.
On Hughes: “I can say one thing, I don’t see us taking him out of that role right now. He’s probably less built up than anyone that we have so he will probably not be one of our options. … I see him staying in the bullpen.”
====================================
Youuuuse is the new Jobber….
Bring up Josh Towers to start in Minnesota— the guy is a veteran and knows how to pitch and can be an adequate 5th starter.
Pete,
Why can’t they stretch out Aceves? It’s not like he’s a power pitcher. He can get buy with average velocity and deception. He doesn’t need to build up arm strength to get guys out over a full start. Either that or start Mitre and use Aceves in long relief. Just in case Wang is out for a long time, I’d want Aceves to be transitioned back into the rotation. He is a starter by trade. He throws strikes. He gets outs and can pitch through a lineup multiple times because he has a large arsenal of pitches. If Wang is out for more than 3-4 starts, I don’t want some project or retread like Mitre getting those starts. They can easily stretch out Aceves within the next week or two if he pitches multiple innings, say 2-3 then 4 coming out of the pen.
“This team is going to be walking a tightrope every fifth day for awhile.”
It has been all year or at least every time Wang’s pitched.
I find it amusing how people were praising Toronto for staying in the race, losing so many sp and now the Yankees lose one and it’s gloom and doom.
Every team walks a tightrope with their fifth starter.
The Yankees have been walking a tightrope with Wang all year in the role.
There is one start needed from a 5th starter before the break.
It doesn’t make much sense to me to disrupt the entire bullpen for one pre-ASB start.
Let’s see what Mitre or whomever gets the start does and there go from there.
JC it’s a 5th starter, and how about when Mitre or whoever it is goes 5 IP – 6 IP ala Ponson, it’s not all doom and gloom.
—————-
I guess we’ll see if and when Mitre gets hammered for 6 ER in 3 IP a couple of times.
I think you’ve underestimated how the rotation depth this team has had this season is the primary reason they are in the situation.
They did sustain win streaks with a bad pen. They didn’t when the starters weren’t doing their jobs.
These quotes a couple days ago sealed it -
“I can’t look Mariano Rivera in the face and say we’re going to weaken your bullpen right now for the future,” Cashman said. “It’s a balancing act. It’s a tough one. It’s not easy. You just got to make the best choices every day. And you revisit it every day.”
Although Cashman has been pleased with the bullpen’s performance in recent weeks, he admitted that he won’t hesitate to make a move to strengthen the unit. He said the team could turn to Hughes if they needed a starter in a pinch, but also suggested they might turn to options in Triple A too.
“If I ever decide to pull him (from the bullpen), I got to feel that I have someone ready that can go in that I feel comfortable enough with so I can stretch (Hughes) back out,” Cashman said. “And I’m not right there yet.”
SJ44 July 5th, 2009 at 12:52 pm
Every team walks a tightrope with their fifth starter.
The Yankees have been walking a tightrope with Wang all year in the role.
There is one start needed from a 5th starter before the break.
It doesn’t make much sense to me to disrupt the entire bullpen for one pre-ASB start.
Let’s see what Mitre or whomever gets the start does and there go from there.
——————-
Wang was different because we all know the upside is there. It was worth trotting him out there every five days trying to get his mojo back because the upside was enormous.
There is no upside to trotting Mitre out there every five days.
“Brandon,
Wrong. That’s desperation. If Bruney & Damaso had stayed healthy, this is a non-convo.”
Would you rather make that move or deal another A or B prospect for a quick fix ?
That decision was made. It’s not like young Philip was going to break the top 3 this season. If you role into the playoffs Yusssse isn’t going to start over CC or AJ or Andy…you know that and I know that. Essentially they are setting up the AL to jump on the SP otherwise it’s Bruney to Coke to Yussssse to Mo. Game Over.
What is going on with Marte btw?
Geez, again with the “Is Phil still a starter” question – that’s just dumb, I’m sorry.
And that’s another thing people forget if Marte returns and becomes the 7th inning guy. And we know either Jobber will start one of the PO games or be slotted into the BP. Again what’s the problem ?
do not stretch hughes out mid season. they tried that last year with joba and he ended up on the dl by august. this is how it has to be now. hughes in the pen was what they needed at the time and it has worked to this point. do not risk an injury to hughes. he needs a full season healthy.
roddick is playing his heart out, but federer is just better.
LOL Suzyn Waldman in trying to 8 hole
David Delluci is batting in the A-hole
Don’t be so sure Marte is coming back. It’s been well established that Cashman has been fishing for a left-handed arm out of the pen to compliment Coke.
Cashman isn’t even counting on Marte coming back.
LOL Suzyn Waldman in trying to pronounce 8 hole w/ her Bostonian accent instead said
David Delluci is batting in the A-hole
I’m sorry it was too funny.
I will say that Joe sounds less convinced every time I hear him that Phil’s a starter – he sort of sounds wimpy about it. Also, while I agree it’s fine for now, if Wang is out for a long time, then the Yankees are out and out morons if they don’t put Phil back in the rotation.
Marte will be replaced by yet another Pirate– John Grabow.
all star selection show on right now on tbs
TEX WON!!! TEX WON!
“And that’s another thing people forget *if* Marte returns”
Giuseppe Franco that’s why we use words like “IF”
Tex made the starting all-star line-up
“Marte will be replaced by yet another Pirate– John Grabow.”
Screw that I’m waiting to see what Cash does to steal Zach Duke.
2009 MLB All-Star Selections:
American League
C Joe Mauer
1B Mark Teixera
2B Dustin Pedroia
SS Derek Jeter
3B Evan Longoria
OF Jason Bay
OF Ichiro Suzuki
OF Josh Hamilton
tex beat puke?
TEX WON
Jason Bay at .260 over Carl Crawford.
Brandon… I’M AWESOME ! July 5th, 2009 at 1:04 pm
“And that’s another thing people forget *if* Marte returns”
Giuseppe Franco that’s why we use words like “IF”
—————
No reason to be condescending. I’m much bigger than you. LOL.
hamilton is injured why is he there?
I guess I’m glad Tex won, but outside of a really hot streak, does he deserve to go?
Does AJ have a chance to be selected? That would be cool – then if the AL wins, he can pie the hero of the game, lol
all star voting is a scam.
whats the point anymore. half the league plays in the game anyway.
>hamilton is injured why is he there?
Votes.
Hamilton has also said he wants to go if voted in – now there is no guarantee the team lets him, but that’s what he said
Lets go Yankees!
I’m glad A-Rod is staying home that week. Those days off will benefit him more than anyone.
“No reason to be condescending. I’m much bigger than you. LOL.”
I’m Awesome.
Grats to Tex
here we go again, full counts to each better, check.
Joba learned his lesson.
Not a great way to start the game, Joba.
What is up with Joe’s blathering answer to whether Phil is still a starter? He answers yes and then goes on and on about who knows what, saying his stuff plays in both the pen and rotation. I don’t understand why Joba is DEFINITELY a starter (and it’s always said with conviction), but Phil is a starter (but is said almost in a whisper, like the Yankees are having second thoughts)
when do they announce the reserves for the all-star game?
Here we go..cant put away hitters 0-2.
MY GOD GO AFTER HIM !
Where exactly did that miss? Really hope this ump just has a small zone, because otherwise, he’s doing the “Let’s show up the young pitcher and effect the game” thing that some of these d-weeds love to do.
come on joba..finish these guys off!
When will Joba learn to throw strikes?
See… his stuff is good enough to let people hit it….
Now was that hard, here it is hit…FO.
Betsy,
For this year…
WOW, Joba just hit 94 on the gun. Man he throws hard.
Betsy,
You are reading too much into it. Really, relax, he’s going to start next year.
Wimbledon has been so compelling, I didn’t even realize the game started. Have a nice day everybody.
Wow Roddick is playing his heart out
Carl, I hope so. It’s just that Joe sounds so wimpy when talking about Phil that I’m getting a bit concerned that they have fallen in love with him in the pen.
I despise this trend towards non-uni hats every other week. I understand the marketing concept but does every single thing in MLB have to relate to selling merchandise? Let them put a patch on the regular caps and sell those like they used to do instead of doing a rainbow of stupid-looking headgear all season.
Pound the strike zone!
damon is an adventure everytime
Did he catch it !?
Geez, Damon makes every easy FB seem like an adventure….
that fly out was the only pitch in the zone that AB
LOL SJ – what me, read into something?
What do you make of Joe’s comments re: this year? Do you think it means that if Wang is out for a long time, they will still keep Phil in the pen? I do like that they don’t want to jerk him around
How’s Joba looking? I’ll be watching soon, but I flew over last night, had a feeling this men’s final would be a good one. If anyone is watching, you can probably see me on TV. I’m the one sitting next to the Duchess of Kent holding up the sign “Andy Roddick is a stahhhhhting pitchaaaahhhhh!!!”
btw. Pretty crazy wimbledon final right now…
Another bullpen day.
Nibble nibble nibble. Burn up the Pen again.
FB, FB, FB, FB
JC 21 pitches
Joba has now become Mr. “No decision.” He’s at 22 pitches already. HE’S A STARTIN PITCHA!!
joba is gonna need a quick couple innings
he has a hard time putting batters away
he might reach 30 this inning.
23
there you go
Whew, finally……too many pitches for Joba.
you couldnt do that 5 pitches ago joba
24 pitches for Jobber
No If he only threw that breaking ball at 0-2 instead of throwing 5 straight Fbs
gameday says 24 pitches
Sergio Mitre’s next scheduled start at AAA is Thursday. He’s stretched out and ready for Wang’s start.
>How’s Joba looking?
So far, 24 pitches, 14 strike, 10 balls.
Ended the inning with a K on the 9th pitch of the AB to Rolen.
Good start jetes!
Rios has a machine gun!
“No If he only threw that breaking ball at 0-2 instead of throwing 5 straight Fbs”
I like that he went after him, but the sequence got him into trouble.
Roger won
great effort by Roddick
Can’t say Roddick is soft anymore. Man what an effort.
alright with the hip hip jorge
pedroia .285 2 35
cano- .300 13 43
Lets go Matsui!
let’s see this newfangled #5 hitter
Somebody should crack the hip hip guy in the face
Poor Roddick, but he’s getting a great ovation
…and yet pedroia is the starting second basemen. Kay has a point, the all star game is just a total disaster right now. It’s unheard of that it actually counts to who gets homefield ad
Poor baserunning by Teixeira.
waste.
come on Matsui!!
Wooo Mats!! Boo Tex
Teix I love ya but…
the 5 spot in our lineup is a curse.
wow… bad fielding by Overbay and bad baserunning by Tex…
Bad Base running
Swish!
thankfully cano wasn’t in the 5 hole.
Take that… RISP!
Bad Tag he was safe!!!
That was a TERRIBLE send. If we lose this by one, that’s gonna be the killer, because this inning could’ve been much bigger.
Now that Cano is out of the 5th spot he will hit .1000 with RISP
someone on ESPN radio was saying last week that home field should go to the league that wins in “Interleague Season” and you should play the entire world series by the rules of the team that wins the all-star game…
would appear to put the NL at a distince disadvantage…
Bad baserunning? He was safe lol
Replay showed that catcher tagged Tex with glove while ball was in the other hand. ump got deked out.
wow that umpire BLEW that call
blind ump once again…ball wasn’t even in the glove! what BS.
ok, Cano – show a little fire here
Oh wow. On replay, Tex should’ve been called safe. Dude had the ball in his hand, and tagged him with his glove. That’s not the first time I’ve seen that blown call this year. Umps really need to make a point of noting these things before calling guys out.
lol cano
LOL Cano……….pathetic
Good job, Yanks…..
Sad
and we have confirmed that there is no “evaluation” or “feedback cycle” to the umps when then make these ridiculous calls? I mean, you would think someone would be doing something about all these “fundamental” errors
0-21?? where are the boo birds?
do the phil to the rotation people realize what it would take to have phil back full stength as a starter? You lose your strength that is the bullpen, and still don’t have a 5th starter. so you are compromised in 2 area’s for at least 3-4 weeks, while phil gets ready. I think after what happened to Joba last year, they won’t mess with his arm like that.
It’s the 5th spot in the rotation!!
seems like robbie hits to that spot sooo much with risp…so weird
Cano needs to be thinking left field, left field, left field.
I can accept line outs Robi but not weak groundballs, he’s lost.
Robbie, for the love of…
Day off tomorrow, Joe. Seriously. This is pathetic.
Did not notice the bad call by the ump now, but still bad baserunning… Had there been 2 outs then ok, but with 1 out??
did anyone hear the AL reserves? I changed the channel just in time for the NL
Text Toyota polls are beyond lame.
LOBinson Cano…
He was safe. THe ball was in his other hand.
I still love you Cano, take a day off and work on left field hitting, I have faith
.
I’m surprised Giradi didn’t protest the call at home plate. Could the home plate ump have reconsidered his call after consulting other umps?
come on Jobber!
umps make bad bad calls all the time. they should have instant replay on plays at the plate and bases..
why not get things right?
Cody com’on
joba hit 95.8
1-2 seeing eye hit
Aaron Hill should have been the AL 2nd baseman. As far as numbers go, the only one close is Kinsler, but, he’s only hitting about .255, and Cano is better this year over Pedroia.
good job Georgy !
2nd time in 4 days
Great inning
joba with a huge imporvement over the 1st inning
96 mph, 94 95 that inning, he’s getting aggressive, let the D help you Jobber.
34 pitches for Jobber
*improvement
anybody notice how much more forceful joba looked that inning in his delivery…you could see it on the ball he threw 96 and then a couple fbs after…thats how he looked in detroit and cleveland
“umps make bad bad calls all the time. they should have instant replay on plays at the plate and bases..
why not get things right?”
Because most people that dislike the sport complain that it’s too slow, and allowing instant replay on things like that will slow the game down even more because replay WOULD be used several times every game. Even if you limit it like the NFL does, you’re gonna have managers throwing their red flags every time they can, and games will end up extended by a significant amount.
great inning for the pitch count
Im going to see them play Anahiem cant wait
SEA-BOS
2-0 bad guys…
Brandon gives up 2 solo shots (Dustin and Papi)
But hey – he didn’t walk anyone … progress!
Hey folks, what a finish at Wimbledon. I was able to catch a quick cab to Heathrow and a rare Concord flight back home. Now I feel stupid, I should have stopped in NY to see the rest of this game in person. Oh well.
We were flying over the stadium in the bottom of the first, however, from my window seat it looked like Tex was safe but it he still should’ve stayed at third base.
Hey, can’t complain if the M’s lose – they helped the Yanks out quite a bit.
Donnie,
I agree with your post. I do think they can bring in instant replay and put a timer on how long a batter steps out the box and pitcher throws his next pitch. Also between innings warm ups.
close cody..close
A-Rod just missed that
nice ab cody
GJ Cody
Remember last week when it was suggested that the BoSox weren’t as good as their record would have you believe…..How many are starting to believe this to be a fact……
Brandon gives up 2 solo shots (Dustin and Papi)
But hey – he didn’t walk anyone … progress!
**************************************************
Now thats a glass half-full type comment that would do the OPPC proud, lol.
Jeter!
good job Jetes
Rishi, I checked on Yankees.com and the AL apparently hasn’t named their starters or reserves. Who else would go from the Yanks?
Jeter heard Kay calling him old…
CompassRosy,
lol Seattle will still sweep
Does the Concorde still fly? I thought Air France had stopped all Concorde flights.
OK, time to bench Cano for a game or 2. I’m sure glad we don’t have Ramiro Pena to fill in for him at 2b. Good times! Great call to keep Ransom here over him!
Meanwhile, it’s almost slightly disturbing how happy I am for Tex getting the start. I mean it really doesn’t matter in the grand scheme of things, but still, happy our guy won
did they announce the pitchers and reserves yet? Wondering if CC and/or Mo will make it, though I guess I’d just as soon have them get the rest. The only time I really cared about a pitcher making it was last year with the Moose, and he got robbed!
Oh, and very happy to see Yadier Molina catching for the NL, thats my boy and he deserves it so much. He means so much to that team & it’s never discussed, I get sick of ppl saying StL is “Pujols and a bunch of garbage.” it’s about time Yadier’s game get the attention it deserves!
What’s annoying about blown calls, is if (say) the third base umpire had seen that phantom tag and knew it was a bad call he will _never talk to the homeplate umpire and get it overturned, due to some ridiculous thing that only seems to exist in baseball of `showing up’ the umpire for making a mistake.
Betsy – already names the AL starters…
Carl,
What the tickets cost you and what kind of seats? I want to go this year but it seems to run me 300+ for 2 between the third base line and left.
Mo made it, too (with Tex and Jeter) so far
3 bos pitchers (Wakefield, Beckett and Papelbon)
here come the reserves…
S.o.S. July 5th, 2009 at 1:57 pm
Carl,
What the tickets cost you and what kind of seats? I want to go this year but it seems to run me 300+ for 2 between the third base line and left.
325×4 down the third base line for 2 nights with my pops. I picked them up last year.
Is that really Nick and he’s just being facetious, or is someone impersonating him?
Posada!
nice jorge!!!! yea!!
Jeez, why didn’t they just put the entire Rays team on the All-Star roster?
Posada is a machine
See Posada #5 spot paying dividends already.
I agree, Donnie – seems like the starting line up is all out there
Jorge is all like, “Yeah, I’m clutch. You jealous?” ::farts::
no Yankees in the reserves
Posada 4-0 yanks
just think what could have been if Jorge had been batting 5th instead of Cano the past few weeks.
HIP HIP!!!
Until Cano proves even a modicum of ability to provide Alex with adequate protection, Jorge should be hitting 5th just about all the time except when Matsui is in one of his red-hot, nobody-on-the-face-of-the-planet-can-get-me-out streaks.
“just think what could have been if Jorge had been batting 5th instead of Cano the past few weeks.”
we talking about the same guy that struck out like 4-5 times in one game on the road right ?
Right now his bat is turning it on, RISP have been there before this too.
Wakefield has an ERA of 4.30 and only has 53 Ks. I understand that he’s won 10 games, but seriously, how are those All-Star numbers? A.J.’s numbers are better. CC’s numbers are better. That’s ridiculous. Really, the only complaint I have about the pitchers.
Cecil already at 51 pitches so far
Sterling messes up again.
Wait…Beckett made it and not CC!!! LOL. Player balloting FAIL!!! They must have thought it said, vote for the biggest d-bag in the AL, instead of, vote for the best power arms.
Or maybe it was Vote for the Corniest White Boy…that’d explain Bay’s inclusion too.
posada will work out fine in the 5 hole thank you
It’s nice to see that Wakefield gets an All-Star selection. He should reach 200 wins and become what Charlie Hough was.
Jason Bay and his mighty .259 BA. He’s got 19 HRs, and that’s nice and all, but he’s done exactly the opposite of Tex, where he started off hot, and has since been pretty much ice cold. Fan voting is a joke.
Angel, I don’t think anyone but me can answer your question authoritatively, but I suspect that if someone were to impersonate me, that person wouldn’t do it to post that he was sitting next to the Duchess of Kent at Wimbledon holding up an “Andy Roddick is a stahhhhhting pitchaaaahhhhh!!!” sign. But who knows.
“Remember last week when it was suggested that the BoSox weren’t as good as their record would have you believe…..How many are starting to believe this to be a fact……”
I was one of the people who suggested that and I still believe in it.
They had our number until now, but they have been kind of ordinary against the rest of the league. At that time I said we will lead Sox for good by the end of July and it will happen.
I’m sort of happy none of our pitchers made it to the ASG, why risk injury? Better they rest up for the second half.
ggod pitch, the kid has guts.
Swish you need to be hacking man
ump’s got reservations
57 pitches for Cecil
*good*
Umps don’t like you swish hack!
BBFan, Trust me there were only a few…Well that at least took a stance…The general attitude was that the Yanks would have to fight it out for The Wild Card….
Donnie, the rumor floating around is that pitchers hace figured out how to pitch to Bay.
Coney LOL
Mo didn’t make it?
Cone is an idiot lmao
I’m just as happy that nobody in the rotation made the All-Star team. Sabathia starts the last game before the break and that will allow them to set their rotation the way they want it. They need the break more than the All-Star game.
What’s Beckett’s ERA ? Did he deserve to make it?
Jobber go after him please.
Mo made the all star team
Eh, Beckett could have been left off…..
I may just be Yankee bias but I am really surprised both Beckett and Wakefield made it and not CC. I know he had a rough April but I seem to recall the same for Beckett.
Logically, you guys are right that it’s better for our pitchers to have a break. But still, Beckett and Wakefield but no CC is wack!!!
But…Mo made it? Sweet!!
Yeah, that’s ridiculous that AJ didn’t make it and Wakefield did, huh? That makes no sense
How was that safe, but Tex was out?
2009 All-Star Game Rosters:
http://i41.tinypic.com/23m659u.jpg
just keep on going after them Jobber, that was a lucky hit.
CC’s ERA is higher than AJ’s – there’s a better argument to be made for AJ than CC…….and NO argument to be made for Wakefield.
jobas velocity is so much better today…i love to see him like this
Ahh Jetes didnt tag cause of offline throw.
If Wakefield is going to get a medal for being old and mediocre, then Jamie Moyer should have made the All-Star Game way, way more times than he has. Probably not this year, but certainly last year.
Did Madden load the roster with his guys otherwise? He’s kinda bush league so I’d expect him to.
Way to nibble Joba
Also Pedroia over Kinsler? I haven’t looked up the numbers specifically, but I thought Kinsler was better. I thought Cano was doing better than Pedroia before this bad stretch with RISP.
Betsy – I would go with CC over AJ only because AJ has so many walks. Last year I was always infuriated with the hype around Dice-BB even though he led the AL in walks. I think AJ does this year, so in fairness I have to hold him to the same standard…although obviously he still deserves it a little more just by virtue of NOT being the most overhyped $100MM pitcher ever.
Not a good job by Joba giving a run back after the Yankees scored a couple…….boy, everything with Joba is a chore it seems.
joba falling apart like a schmuck
Eek come on Jobber.
damn joba you were crusing..
LOL Jesus, Joba…….unbelievable.
Hill is head and shoulders over the rest of the AL 2nd baseman, this year.
Joba turned this into a ballgame by continuing to nibble.
Terrible, terrible job.
Wow. Joba less than impressive.
Hahah Joba you muppet! Alright, I’m not worried. They aren’t pitching so well either.
Jobber
I hope the Yankees didn’t let Cecil off the hook in that last inning……..The Jays pen, if they ever get to it, is pretty good…less said about Joba the better.
sigh….that blows hard
Swisher’s whiff with the bases loaded will loom large ….
Give it a rest Pel-ican. Chamberlain is not falling apart. He’s made one bad pitch.
Joba is an issue with this team, I don’t care if he’s “just” the #5.
They need to ban boston fans from voting next year. Seriously Wakefield? Thats like the Yanks fans picking Pettitte for the all star game. They are good pitchers but not all stars.
Time to take the voting more seriously.
Joba regressing as a starter.. He is the only pitcher I recently who isn’t progressing.. He just continues to nibble and put on runners and high pitch counts, but everyone says he’s going to be great! I haven’t seen that in 2 years!
I can’t believe someone actually said Joba was a better pitcher than AJ
To be fair, you can’t expect the Yankees to score 5 runs in every inning. This is on Joba- he did a piss poor job, yet again.
If he continues to nibble, he’s going to end up in the bullpen in his career. At some point, he’s either going to learn to attack the zone, especially with a 4 run lead, or he can go back to the pen.
You have to see some improvement and unfortunately, he doesn’t improve from start to start.
Disappointing because he has a lot of talent but, not a very good pitching IQ.
This will be another short start. Hope Aceves has 3 innings in him because it looks like they will need him for 3 today.
55 pitches for Jobber
Did Madden load the roster with his guys otherwise? He’s kinda bush league so I’d expect him to.
==
3 TB players in the reserves, all having decent seasons though.
>Give it a rest Pel-ican.
>Chamberlain is not falling apart.
>He’s made one bad pitch.
Lose your eyes in the war, huh? Tough break.
Beckett absolutely deserves to be in. I hate the guy, and want to buy him a razor and teach him how to use it, because my GOD does that little pet rat he keeps on his chin annoy me, but he’s been mostly dominant after a rough start.
But Tim Wakefield has absolutely no reason to be in the game, past, “Oh, he’s old and he’s been around a long time, and has never been outright terrible, and he’s got 10 wins, so hey, let’s put him in”. It’s a sentimental pick, and in my opinion, there is absolutely no place for that in the All-Star game. They promote it as “counting” because of home field advantage being on the line, and then we send out guys to pitch just because it’d be nice for them. That makes no sense. AJ had a rough stretch, but 7 of his last 9 starts, he’s been lights out, scary good. There is no reason he should have been snubbed.
Joba in the bullpen = nearly unhittable, amazing mound presence
Joba as a starter = tentative, pedestrian
it was that breaking pitch to what’s his face that made this a game, could have just gone after him w/ the fastball instead threw a curveball that was hard hit by Ransom and that gave Lind an extra RBI and a chance to look for something.
SOS, fans don’t vote for pitchers……
Last year AJ Burnett was 6-7 with a 5.42 era in 16 starts
This year he is 7-4 in 16 starts with a 3.83 era.
im more ok with a start like this from joba than when he is walking everyone and throwing lots of balls….he got hit…pitchers get hit…his velocity is better today and hes challenging more people…hopefully he wont give up any more runs today
So sick of Joba! He never shows you anything he gives you the same 5 innings every time.
anyone stating Joba is regressing as a starter is delusional. This is his first full year as a starter, get it? Ups and downs and for chrissakes the guy almost always leaves the team in a position to win the game.
Joba needs to go at least 3 more scoreless innnings, at I will say job well done. No more walks… He has made 2 mistakes…
1. the walk to scutaro, and then the fb down the middle…
Chavez and Wells both got lucky with their hits
another start.. same issues.
He has yet to win a game at home he has a 4-0 lead and gives 3 runs right back
Good ol Jabber! At it again.
“They need to ban boston fans from voting next year. Seriously Wakefield? Thats like the Yanks fans picking Pettitte for the all star game. They are good pitchers but not all stars.”
Fans don’t select pitchers. The manager and coaches do. Blame them.
GB,
He made more than one bad pitch that inning. The 0-2 pitch to Chaves can’t be on the outer half. Just go middle in and overpower the guy.
Then, as is his custom, he falls in love with his slider and curveball with guys on base and gets beat by both pitches.
Its the same pattern with Joba. He’s trying to finesse his way through starts and he’s not a finesse.
Hopefully, he can last 2 more innings and not torch the entire lead and just go to Aceves.
Its a shame Joba is so stubborn. He makes it awfully tough on himself.
“Give it a rest Pel-ican. Chamberlain is not falling apart. He’s made one bad pitch”
Yeah, let’s not get carried away here. I missed Hill’s single (I gather from the comments here that he was nibbling though) but the hit before it was a cheapie if ever there was one. And then he made a mistake to a guy who’s been killing mistakes all year. He has to take his bumps and bruises, he has to make these mistakes at a big league level or he will never be a complete pitcher.
I figured it out!! Boston fans voted in their crappy players because as everyone knows THIS GAME COUNTS and the Yankees wont have homefield advantage for the World Series this year. Making it a little harder to win #27. Smart chowders smart.
If he’s not progressing and giving you the same every friggin start, then he’s regressing. You see the other pitchers starting to get it, but not Joba.. Yanks give him a lead and he just falls apart.. One bad pitch, but he puts on 2 guys ahead of that bad pitch.. All on Joba!!
And who wanted to trade for Bronson Arroyo? Shame on you.
It’s sad to say, but I want to win this game more than I need to see Joba out there. I don’t have any faith that he’s going to settle down…….
Cano should bat leadoff when there are no men on base. He’d hit .400.
dont compare this joba start to previous ones…this isnt like the others ones…he just got hit..bottom line….96 mph fb away chavez hit for a double..left a slider up to hill whos a great hitter and then got foolish with lind…his normal problems are control…thats not what hurt him today
Joba needs to come out and attack especially after the team spots him a 4 run lead. After that bad start against the Red Sox he came out with guns blazing and struck out 12 – he’s got it in him, nibbling and bleeding away the lead is bad bb, if they’re going to beat you, let them beat you with yor best stuff. That’s what’s frustrating abt Joba the starter so far.
Pel
July 5th, 2009 at 2:23 pm
>Give it a rest Pel-ican.
>Chamberlain is not falling apart.
>He’s made one bad pitch.
Lose your eyes in the war, huh? Tough break.
————————————————————
Your all about style, huh?
A chip shot double and two ground ball singles that just elude the fielders. He was getting his strikes and he made one bad pitch to Lind, who has 18 homers and almost 60 RBI with his .10 average. He’s been doing that all year.
“Swisher’s whiff with the bases loaded will loom large ….”
The thing about that at bat that’s particularly tough to take is how it happened.
Cecil was absolutely on the ropes and completely on his own. He had to notice that there was no one up in the pen. The manager’s message was pretty clear – you are going to sink or swim on your own because I’m not burning out the pen today. If needed you’ll have to take a long afternoon for the team.
Not only did Swisher strike out with the bases loaded – he did not swing the bat.
5 pitches – never swung.
He struck out looking by taking 3 strikes. He left his bat on his shoulder on strike 3.
If he’s going to not get the run in that time – fine. If he’s going to strike out ok. But to do it by looking at three pitches with the pitcher hanging on by a thread is tough.
“Its the same pattern with Joba. He’s trying to finesse his way through starts and he’s not a finesse.”
What is up w/ that. Usually it’s the other way around w/ young guys, how is it that this kid keeps on falling in love w/ the curveball and slider when he has his type of fastball. Just ~wierd
Bases loaded for Seattle. GL Seattle!
***with his .310 average*** . He’s been doing that all year.
Thing is, he has a good fastball.
Good fastball + 4 run lead means, use it, pitch ahead and finish hitters.
Instead, its nibble, nibble with off speed stuff and get beat by your second and third best pitch.
He’s talented but stubborn.
That’s why there isn’t any improvement in him so far as a starter.
Hopefully, it will come. It will come though when he stops pitching like Jimmy Key and trying to finesse his way out of innings.
I hear what you guys are saying about Joba’s woes, but I still think people are expecting too much too soon from him. Don’t a lot of pitchers struggle early in their career from trying to be too fine rather than going right after hitters they should go after? He is still young and he will get his act together! Granted he is stubborn, but that doesn’t have to always be a bad thing. He just has to channel it the right way.
When the Yanks have RISP, Kevin Long should tell Cano to imagine the bases are empty.
Sort of like “imagine the audience is naked” for people with fears of public speaking.
“dont compare this joba start to previous ones…this isnt like the others ones…he just got hit..bottom line….96 mph fb away chavez hit for a double..left a slider up to hill whos a great hitter and then got foolish with lind…his normal problems are control…thats not what hurt him today”
It’s only been 3 innings.. 2 innings if you don’t want to count the 1st.
Chris Woodward fails.
mariners swinging at pitches in the dirt.
“dont compare this joba start to previous ones…this isnt like the others ones…he just got hit..bottom line….96 mph fb away chavez hit for a double..left a slider up to hill whos a great hitter and then got foolish with lind…his normal problems are control…thats not what hurt him today”
I like that he’s throwing more FBs today, the problem is like that breaking ball he threw w/ no one on and 2 outs that was crushed down the line. What is the need for that ? Just go after him.
I can chalk it up to being young and stubborn so I’ll have more patience w/ him, but come on kid, we’re waiting for you.
Joba is kinda having the same mental problems as Kennedy did last year, but his results aren’t as bad because he has much better stuff…but, of course, that is what also makes it all the more frustrating to watch, which I believe is what you guys are reactng to.
Seattle clears the bases 3-2 seattle
3-2 bases clearing triple for Cedeno…!!
Let’s go Mariners, don’t be satisfied with 2/3.
RONNIE!!!!!
Clears the bases with a triple!
3-2 good guys!!!!!!!
Ronny Cedeno is THE MAN.
“I like that he’s throwing more FBs today, the problem is like that breaking ball he threw w/ no one on and 2 outs that was crushed down the line. What is the need for that ? Just go after him.”
the one hill hit?…scutaro was on third
I’m thinking if that was really Nick in SF, he would have been shouting haiku’s about Andy Roddick at the Duchess of Kent, and not holding up a sign. But thats just me, lol.
OK, now I feel a little less disgusted about Ronny Cedeno going deep at Yankee Stadium earlier this week.
CB, That is exactly what I was thinking as I shook my head in disbelief when Swisher whiffed…He was clearly looking for a free pass…….Joba is having a typical Joba outing…..He just doesn’t pound the zone on a consistent basis….He’s his own worse enemey….Sooner or later the light bulb has to come on……
SJ44,
You’re exactly right. John and Suzy were talking about Joba’s…technique on the mound, and Suzy commented that his problem is that he wants to throw all his pitches at once. He’s confident in all of them, and I appreciate that. But his sequences are somewhat baffling at times. Why he doesn’t dial up the fastball and blow guys away, instead of nibbling with curves and sliders, is beyond me.
Looks really low.
And on a glorious day after the 4th here in RI, what could be nicer than to watch Seattle stick it to the Sux.
Always happy to stop by for important matters.
“the one hill hit?…scutaro was on third”
Yeh I think so. That’s just wasting pitches that he doesn’t have to waste.
Joba joba joba
BBB July 5th, 2009 at 2:35 pm
OK, now I feel a little less disgusted about Ronny Cedeno going deep at Yankee Stadium earlier this week.
====================================================
To make you feel even better, he had a homer in the first Red Sox game
BryanHochMark Teixeira collected 1,433,794 votes in the last 2 days of balloting to beat out Kevin Youkilis at first base for the AL All-Star team.
wow
The thing about Joba’s stubbornness is, he might not even be in baseball right now without it. So I’m not quite ready to dismiss it as a bad quality. I think it’s a good thing and will help him be beastly over the years as a starter. He just needs more baseball wisdom to go along with his stubbornness, and right now, he doesnt have that much.
CB,
Re: The Swisher AB, you hit the nail on the head.
His first thought there can’t be to think walk. Its to think about delivering the knockout blow.
Its his weakness as a run producer. He’s a walk first hitter.
Great for his OBP, and stat heads love him. Poor for his Avg w/RISP which, I believe now is hovering around the Mendoza Line.
Bad as that was though, Joba has to be better than he is showing.
Frustrating but, as they say, “That’s baseball”.
Jabber was looking very flustered on the bench. Let’s hope he shakes it off.
0-2 to 3-2
there it is again, not throwing the fastball gets himself into trouble.
oh look a hit
Dont give up 0-2 hits. What about 0-2 to 3-2 hits.
My bad on the fans voting. Its a A.L. conspiracy against the Yanks having 4 games in the Series in our launching pad. Dammitt Stern!! Cant you see whats happening? Make it a tie again and go with who won the previous year.
ffs…. 0-2 and then 3 straight pitches that arent even close…. and then a basehit.. O…M…G
The Duchess of Kent
a lawn tennis connoisseur
But no Joba fan
And now he’s back to nibbling. This is what got Hughes in trouble last season. He’d get up 0-2, and instead of attacking the guys, he’d nibble, get to 3-2, end up in a corner, and have to make a crappy pitch to avoid walking them, and it ends up getting hammered. I know this is his first year as a starter, but man, is it ever frustrating to watch.
dear joba – pitch to contact. Regards, Russell.
BryanHoch: Mark Teixeira collected 1,433,794 votes in the last 2 days of balloting to beat out Kevin Youkilis at first base for the AL All-Star team.
Pat,
Plate discipline is critical… but taken to far it leads to passive at bats. And that’s what Swisher’s last at bat was. It’s also why he’s hitting .200 with RISP. I understand that Cecil’s had poor control. Absolutely go up there and don’t swing at pitches that are either balls or even a pitcher’s pitch.
But you have to go up there and look at this as a huge opportunity. You dictate the at bat. Be more aggressive because there’s no doubt you get a base hit there and cecil is done.
Instead he never gets the bat off his shoulder.
Swisher and cano are the exact opposites as hitters – and their extreme approaches limit their value with men on base. Swisher will draw walks with men on base but in terms of getting hits and knocking in runs both are limited.
Well the question of whether Joba should be a starter or not can’t be answered in one year, but we can safely say that he hasn’t been great so far. He’s shown flashes and that’s good. Today though he is sucking. But he’s a 5th starter so it’s all good.
See ! go after him !
did he catch it ?
ok..now joba is going back to his nibbling…got lucky there
damon! stop wobbling like a penguin when your catching a fly ball
Com’on man !
double play ball booted….
Ransom fails.
has no business in the majors
Oh, good lord, Ransom is freaking terrible.
Ransom flashing the leather. Not using the leather, but he’s flashing the leather.
He has a glove on his hand, is pretty much all we can say.
Righetti would never have held up starting. He didn’t have the same liquid smooth delivery of Guidry. He was throwing about 93-94 MPH tops but, had a rough delivery. He had arm problems in the minors and in and even in ‘81.
LOL. See, I bet the Duchess of Kent would have really enjoyed that haiku.
I bet she doesn’t get too many made about her these days, especiall onces including the word Joba in them.
hows the great nibbler look today?
he will be lucky to give them 5.. he is a joke……….
When was Joba’s last flash of great? He’s lately showing flashes of not all that bad.
Ransom
“Ransom flashing the leather. Not using the leather, but he’s flashing the leather.
He has a glove on his hand, is pretty much all we can say.”
Win.
Pena >>>>>>>>>> Ransom
Hell, get Hinske in there, he’s probably better.
after all good that Pena was sent down… god dammit.
Need to help Joba at least by playing D
inning should be over…very worst 2 outs rios on first…very frustrating…ok now it should be over
Jobber should be out of this inning that is a GIDP if I ever saw one and now this is more wasted pitches that he could use in the 5th or 6th.
Ransom reminding me why I want Pena!!!!!
Joba continues pitching “better than his line suggests”.
Error costs the Yankees.
That’s on Ransom.
There goes the lead.
Hanging slider.
ugh…another terrible slider…if only ransom makes a play
get ready for joba’s cliche’s in the postgaem.
joba implodes….typical…..
……..
This is hard to watch
This isn’t what I was hoping for when I bought a ticket for my 1st Joba game…
Let’s go!
3 mistakes.
And again why are we throwing sliders to Chavez.
Would he stop throwing that terrible slider
It’s on Joba. He’s not making good pitches. Even if Ransom made the error, Joba doesn’t shut anyone down.
This is arguably Joba’s worst start of the season. He’s looked absolutely lost out there, and he’s leaving way too many pitches up. Just not good at all today.
game*
So nice of Angel Berroa to pass down the blackmail orgy pics he has of Girardi & Cash to Ransom before he left. I guess it was the least he could do since they were left behind for him by Richie Sexson.
DUMP RANSOM, bring back Pena!!!
Ransom costs Joba the run. Come on Jobber get out of this.
it will be 6-4 in a min
Another high slider.
Joba isn’t going to the bullpen in mid-season.
However, they are going to have to see how he improves as the season goes on.
If he is going to continue to be tentative in the strikezone, he is going to have a hard time realizing his potential as a starter.
The Overbay AB to start the inning was another exampe of Joba falling in love with his second and third best pitch and turning the AB into the hitters favor.
Its tough to be a kid at 23 and learn how to be a starting pitcher in the majors. That said, Joba does make things hard on himself.
Beaten by a bad slider again in the middle of the plate to Chavez. Joba didn’t learn from the last AB with Chavez and there goes to lead.
Time to get him out of there and go to Aceves. He is too stubborn once again to learn from his continued mistakes.
0-2 base hit and an error sheesh!!
Joba is throwing 91-92mph meatballs and you’re blaming it all on ransom. lol.
up 4 to zip and our prodigy gave it up quickly.
another avg. at best outing from the golden child………..
Joba needs to get a motivational speech from Joey Chestnut. Nibbling don’t get it done!
I’ll never understand people who apparently take great satisfaction in being proven right about the struggles of a Yankee player.
It’s asinine.
Nibble, nibble…
Joba should be thankful that Chavez didn’t deposit that hanger in the seats…..
nah blaem it on the catcher..
Joba is a meathead, he is like Cano…………
they do not learn………………
“It’s on Joba. He’s not making good pitches. Even if Ransom made the error, Joba doesn’t shut anyone down.”
The whole point is that is a booted DP by Ransom that ends the inning for a 23 yr. old SP. You can’t just overlook that.
Guys, Pena went down because they want him to STAY good, and develop in to a complete player. He can’t do that sitting on the bench and playing once every 6 days. He needs to play every day. It was a compliment that they sent him down, not a punishment.
That said, I still hate Cody Ransom.
I believe Joba’s last flash of brilliance was that Cleveland game where he went 8 innings and made a great belly flop catch that doubled the runner off second.
when was joba last good start?He was very good in the bullpen but as a starter he isn’t doing his job.Guys like jurrjens are young as well but have been a lot better
Ransom made an error and Joba has to pick him up.
Can’t let a non-hitting #9 hitter beat you twice in one game on bad sliders when he has shown he can’t hit your fastball.
That’s on the starter not the third baseman.
Already close to 80 pitches in 4 innings.
He can’t give them length so, get him out now and move on.
All you do today.
Joba needs to go to scranton and earn his way up here. This is becoming a joke. Something is wrong with the guy and it’s not improving up here.
Joba’s gonna give the Yankees his typical 5 innings.
With a taxed bullpen, that’s not good enough.
The bullpen is not getting length today, Kay.
Joba’s throwing >80 pitches through 4 innings.
Does the fact that he’s throwing so many pitches and getting so many full counts, indicate to him that the approach he’s currently taking might not be working so well for him though, SJ?
Cause I’m not a pitcher, but that would be a red flag to me.
Brandon -
I’m not overlooking the error. The last think Joba needs is t have to throw more pitches to get out of an inning. But once the error is made, it’s done. Joba isn’t getting the job done. No thanks to Ransom, certainly, but still Joba’s doing what Joba’s been doing his last several starts.
Joba coughs it up.
Joba is at 80 pitches in 4 innings.
This is all on Joba, sorry.
wow, 6 straight runs
Get him out of the game.
Joba is frustrating 3 3-2 counts!
Oh, come on. Joba is doing fine. No, really. He’s not falling apart.
….sad, joba is bad but ransom killed him this inning
egawa I got my iussues with Joba but going to SWB is not happening nor should it happen…
Double switch please!!! Take out Jabber and Ransom. Double fail today.
SEA – BOS
2 on, 1 out, top 5
Come on, Franklin …
hit one out so Jr doesn’t have to run hard…
I guess it’s Aceves up next. Bad Joba, bad.
its been a years worth of starts and joba has pitched 7 innings or more only twice i think
as of right now Joba is a thrower and not a pitcher….you can be a thrower out of the pen but not as a starter
by the way what did i tell you 6-4…he has a lot of work to do
“Would he stop throwing that terrible slider”
I think part of this with Joba gets back to his time in the bull pen in 2007.
MLB hitters just could not come close to hitting his slider. He could bounce it in the dirt and they’d swing.
That was a huge reason for why he put up an ERA of 0.38.
But that was never, ever going to last and it hasn’t.
Major league hitters are now completely aware of his slider and they just don’t swing at it.
Hitters swing at 20% of the pitches Joba throws outside of the zone. That is the lowest rate of swings outside of the zone for any pitcher in the major leagues.
But Joba just can’t accept that he will no longer have the same success with his breaking pitches as he did when he first came up.
He just keeps going back to the same blue print that brought him success in 2007.
And that blue print will no longer work.
But he just will not change. He will not make the needed adjustments back.
Scutaro hits another slider.
They may need to consider calling all of his pitches from the bench or from posada. They may need to take pitch selection completely out of his hands.
That slider is the worst ever!!
Make a trade for someone!
I’m ready… call me me cash
Get. Him. Out.
Yikes.
uggg this isnt pretty.
time to stop all this love for joba, he can’t put anyone away which equals a high pitch count
well, thats game. thanks joba
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Hes a bad starter. Terrible atm
Thanks Ransom! Where’s Pena again?
“Brandon -
I’m not overlooking the error. The last think Joba needs is t have to throw more pitches to get out of an inning. But once the error is made, it’s done.”
It’s hard w/ a 23 yr. old to make that thought process …this is rock bottom for Joba.
Great effort by the golden child.
hey how about throwing a slider to the 9th hitter for a change…
total clown Joba. His postgame comments should be very enlightning since he is such a thoughtful non cliche speaker.
what a joke……………………….
WOW!!!!
Alright, I’m done. Have a good day, everyone.
Get it together Jobber
Stayed too long with him and he them the lead. Given the slop he’s throwing at the plate, not surprising.
Stayed WAY too long with him today and it cost them the game.
Bad job of pitching by Joba and a bad job of not getting him out of the game when he is pitching like garbage.
Get him outta there.
He was supposed to be a guy with speed AND control. So far not so much of either today.
Well Yankee stadium is working against us today. It giveth and obviously it is taking away. Please take his ass out of the game now.
Keep him in. Let him get his butt whooped. Save the bullpen. Take the loss.
or not
Please take his behind out of the game.
Slider lol
Time to yank him.
Wow. Just worthless today. Sorry..but true.
I bet Aaron Hill won’t complain about the new Yankee Stadium.
Maybe Joba had to have a dreadful start like this to get his head out of his posterior. Please, please, let this be a wakeup call for him.
total meltdonw.
TOTAL.
what do you expect toronto gets some hits with RISP…
then again cano hit the ball to 2nd with RISP for a hcange and Swshy watched strike 3 go by with his bat on his shoulder.
cano and swisher are the 2 stooges….
Has he hit bottom because I barely recognize this guy.
He has given up. Joba has given up.
He needs to be in Scranton and it’s not an option right now.
another start 5 innings or less. great job joba!
Bases loaded for Seattle
i know some of you will blame cody ransom for this, but this is 90% on Joba. He cannot get an out, cannot trick a hitter, and he is throwing meatballs up there, like usual.
Brandon,
They blasted Hughes against baltimore for losing his composure after his team made errors. Players on the team questioned his mental toughness. Bottom line is the pitcher needs to pick his team up. 4-0 lead should = WIN.
maybe in the long run this will help joba…i dont think he has every heard boos before from his home fans…maybe this will get in his head and chance his attitude and motivate him…yea i knw…wishful thinking
No, but all of the people saying he belongs in the pen are idiots…right Pete?
Oh well.
Lovely – I get to see Jobas worst career start from the premium seats
There better be a comeback…
Donnie – I understand their logic behind sending Pena back down, but I just don’t agree with it. I don’t think he needs to be getting everyday AB’s at the MiLB level necessarily, because he is not an everyday player in the bigs IMO. I think he needs to stay up here as the util IF and learn to be productive as a bench player, because that’s what his future is IMO….and he is/would be the best util IF we’ve had in years, because of how well he handles the glove at short.
If they want to teach him to play the OF that badly, let them do it in the offseason.
Perhaps somebody needs to take the Johnny Damon/Phil Hughes approach with him?
JOBA IS A BUM!!!
The rock bottom start for Jobber, everyone has them, either you bounce back or continue to suck after this.
A
T
R
O
C
I
O
U
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4-2 seattle
Down a starter, it’s either Joba or a combo of Sergio Mitre or Kei Igawa.
I’d still take Joba any day of the week, but he needs to get his head out of his ass.
aaron hill is wverything clueless cano is not. tough ab’s good in tight situations.
hey maybe cano can bunt today on a 3 and0 count. really how can anyone be that dense???????
got mowing to do…….
you are going to hear switch joba and hughes all week from fat mike on the fan
Joba needs to get pounded. Thats the only way he will be able to learn. Francesa is smiling somewhere.
get off blaming cody ransom. he didnt serve up the homerun and the other 3 hits. joba should have been able to minimize that damage.
pete said it very well last time.joba need to step it up because this isn’t working.This joba to the bullpen isn’t a bad idea now is it..??
I know he pitched badly but I am not ready to give up on him. I can’t concede that someone with his stuff doesn’t have the ability to be a starting pitcher. They need to find a way to help him like they did with Hughes when he struggled.
Franklin hits a high chopper that drops – everybody safe.
Bases loaded again … Ryan sac fly
4-2 good guys
2 on, 2 out ….
The game’s not over yet, Cecil isn’t that great and the Jays’ bp is thin. Try to chip away. This game started off so well…and then, kaboom all down the drain.
Joba has nothing you people need to wake up he throws 91mph and has no control.
Game is not over yet, but Joba again throws a ton of pitches in a few innings!
not blaming this all on him as joba did a really bad job, but ransom is a butcher in the field. he was an adventure when he was starting in april, and it bit us a few times then as well. the more that happens, the more times things like this are going to happen, you can’t give teams extra outs. that’s why pena should be here, he doesn’t give extra outs. if a-rod is going to get one game per week off, let’s at least get great D at third.
Stayed way too long with him today.
Should have taken him out after the Chavez AB because he wasn’t going to give you length today so, you have to protect the lead.
Instead, he pitches you out of the game.
Joba is going to have to get his head out of his butt and begin to perform better.
This isn’t Kansas City where you can take 5 years to learn things.
He makes the same mistakes start after start. No matter what they tell him to do, he does the opposite.
He’s not good enough to do that.
If he’s just a 3-4 inning starting pitcher, he’s useless to this team.
He gave away a 4 run lead without much resistence today.
A huge step back for Joba and he’s back to Square One as a starter.
That’s not good for a team that needs a heckuva lot more out of him than they are getting at this time.
CB -
We went back and forth a bit his last start about wanting to see some more linear progress, with the realization that, yeah, it’s going to be more of an ess curve ups and down. But I have seen zero growth in at least 3 or 4 starts. No progress whatever. And his entire demeanor is nothing like it used to be. Look at his face, his body. At some point this inning, he just gave up. Unless he’s pitching hurt, I odn’t like what I see. One Strikeout today.
The Yankees have 3 1/2 starters now.
Brandon… I’M AWESOME !
I don’t know. He hasn’t shown he could make Adjustments.
Angel (OPPC) – A tale told by idiots, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing
July 5th, 2009 at 2:50 pm
I’ll never understand people who apparently take great satisfaction in being proven right about the struggles of a Yankee player.
It’s asinine.
————————————————————
This surprises you how? These are part of the “legendary Yankee fan base” after all. They whine more than any other “winning fan base” in baseball. For the most part, they are everything they spent 90 years throwing into the faces of Red Sox fans. They’re every bit as bad as Red Sox fans have been and are.
Nobody is giving Joba a free pass, but we are allowed to correctly point out that Cody Ransom sucks balls, right?
With the state of the bullpen the oppertunity to tie the redsox in the standings joba needed to that he was ready to step-up. he has not, i think the best thing the yanks can do now with 81 games left is send joba down to learn to pitch as starter or re-establish him as a bullpen guy he has not look good in extended starts
“Brandon,
They blasted Hughes against baltimore for losing his composure after his team made errors. Players on the team questioned his mental toughness. Bottom line is the pitcher needs to pick his team up. 4-0 lead should = WIN.”
And I didn’t agree w/ it there either. Yusssse was 22 at the time. These kids are young heck even Lester went through more crappy starts than either of them.
86 pitches in 3.2 innings is hard to do
“Stayed WAY too long with him today and it cost them the game.”
The games over?
he will never be a starter. IQ too low.
the post game comments from joba will be laughable. he has the insight of some of our posters.
he will say, you have to tip your cap, get back to the drawing board, and some other standard BS..
Up 4 to zip should have been 6 or more and then a total implosion. Hey don’t worry Cano will come thru when it matters.. his 0 fro 20 is really not a real measure he has hit the ball hard at least 2 times!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BTW this game will be 4 hours easily since the yanks brought in another strike thrower……….
Joba, leave the pie-throwing antics to AJ.
Dear Johnny Damon-get that motivational speech ready.
Joba has ZERO confidence in his fastball. No other way around it.
Bats gotta get LOUD.
Cody Ransom is a lemon. DFA him and get a real utility infielder.
This inning also shows how ERA often doesn’t tell the whole story for a pitcher.
Joba was awful that inning. But none of those runs will count against his ERA. They’re all unearned.
But this is one of those games where ERA is completely misleading.
Joba will make his next start, but if there is no improvement over the next 2-3 starts he needs to go back to Scranton
I’d build up Hughes and let him take a spot in the rotation….
What a mess… rigth now the yankees have a 3 man rotation…
yes Cody Ransom does suck, why he’s on this team I have no clue
It’s unfair to call him a bum, but it increasingly obvious that he lacks one thing the starters simply has to have. The ability to shake off poor results. He was very good early, relying heavily on his fastball which I have been calling for him to do for weeks.
Then the first time he give up a hit on the heater, it’s back to 75 % breaking stuff and weak-ass pastballs away.
You really have to quesiton if he has the mental makeup a starter needs. Starters give up a HR and go right back to their game plan. Joba gives upp anything hit hard and abandons his game plan completely.
That, more than the runs and hits is my biggest concern.
stuart, of course Joba going to SWB is not going to happen. He’s the golden child who everyone compares to josh beckett and Roy halladay even though he pitches nothing like them at any time in their careers.
On the day when the club needed an effective outing from Chamberlain, he comes up empty…..I’ll still point to the Swisher ab as the turning point in this game as it stands right now…..I wish Joba would just air it out and go after the lineups rather than tip toeing his way around them……Very disappointing effort…..
well said on pena BBB.
What happened to Joba’s velocity? Anyone have a real answer?
Joba fell apart like a cheap suit after the Ransom error. That’s all on him.
Is Ransom the new Angel Berroa? He barely plays and when he’s in there he can’t hit or field.
I do think they need to do something with this stadium in the off season. These balls are barely clearing the fence today.
Great pitchers learn from horrible outings, we’ll see what Joba is really made of after this.
Francessa should be a hoot tomorrow.
Joba is one that I had truly believed to be a starter. No longer. He is pedestrian. He is nothing as a starter and should be moved back down. Not to the bullpen. Down.
Unfortunately Wang’s injury means we have to suffer to see that drunken fool pitch another start. I’ve had it waiting for this moron to get things together.
“Nobody is giving Joba a free pass, but we are allowed to correctly point out that Cody Ransom sucks balls, right?”
Dude a little leaguer catches that ball.
“This joba to the bullpen isn’t a bad idea now is it..??”
So he can implode in the 8th inning instead of the 4th?
This is about Joba not doing his job. Flat out.
Welp, at least Cecil has already thrown 80 pitches – Cito may not want to waste his BP today but what is he gonna do, leave this guy out there to throw 130? And Seattle is winning. Largely because of Franklin Guttierez, whose hotness I am now free to enjoy since he is no longer playing the Yankees.
All is not lost yet! We can still win this one too although Albie is not a favorite pitcher of mine…
“Francessa should be a hoot tomorrow.”
He’s on vacation.
Joba is not ready to be a starting pitcher this year.You have Wang under performing and Joba ,it’s a strain on the team.
DON’T YOU THINK WHEN THE SCORE GOT TO WITHIN 1,Joe would act,before they got 4 up?
Say what you want about the Jays, but they are professional up and down the lineup. You don’t make your pitch, you will pay.
im really trying to think about how they are going to get 5 innings from the bullpen
Thank God the inning is over.
Joba really sucks.
Joba has no business being a 5th starter right now especially with Wang being hurt. Giving up a 4-0 lead and giving up 8 runs is inexcusable and downright disgusting. He’s a baby on the mound. He’s been put on a pedestal for what? He had an outstanding late season 07 relief stint, but he hasn’t even come close to being dominant. After todays outing I am thinking that he isn’t worthy of another start any time soon..
This surprises you how? These are part of the “legendary Yankee fan base” after all. They whine more than any other “winning fan base” in baseball. For the most part, they are everything they spent 90 years throwing into the faces of Red Sox fans. They’re every bit as bad as Red Sox fans have been and are.
**********************************************************
Well I guess it doesn’t really surprise me, but it does surprise me that they’d invest so much time out their days to rag on a team they appear to despise.
Legendary? It’s almost becoming legendary for its ability to impersonate Red Sox Nation circa 2004.
De Caster would have made that play….haha.Bring him!
I know Ransom made the error but Joba could have picked his teammate up there.
I also noticed Joba dosen’t pitch inside much like he use to,looks like he last his nasty edge
Joba can’t go to the bullpen now. He wouldn’t be any good, right now, imo. He’s lost, it seems.
The Yankees went from everything looking rosy about 24 hours ago, to a few question marks. No predicting baseball at all.
Joba needs to man up, I dont get it one inning he is fast to the plate with 96 on the black, the next inning he take longer then Wang to deliver a pitch and he cant hit the side of a barn. Its not just start to start with Joba its inning to inning.
For those who want Joba yanked from the rotation – you have to ask yourselves if you want Sergio Mitre or Kei Igawa instead.
For better or worse, we’re stuck with the stubborn young man.
einsteins I have an idea to fix the golden child. Do not shake off whatever the cathers puts down…
he is not smart enough to decide what pitch to throw. worry about mechanics and location not pitch choice.
wgawa you are clueless. joba is on a better projectory to start his career then beckett and others…
joba simply needs to listen to his catchers, he is how do I put this not too smart…………………………………….
Girardi throws away some games as well. He really isn’t a good manager. He is just trying to ride the Yankee name to wins, rather than making the right moves at the right time.
They have a winning record despite him, not because of him.
He’s winless at home this year. He makes the same mistaks start after start no matter who is catching him and how many times Girardi and Eiland talk to him about what to do.
By this time, you would hope he would learn and see improvement. Sadly, we aren’t seeing it.
He will do the same thing next Friday in Anaheim.
May be time to challenge Joba a little. Continue to do it your way? Do it in Scranton the second half of the year.
Start listening to your catchers and coaching staff? You keep rolling him out there.
Nothing else has worked. Might as well try it.
“Dude a little leaguer catches that ball.”
Even Berroa, aka Greg Oden’s father, catches that ball.
So what if Ransom didn’t catch that. Errors happen. If you cant pick up your infielder you are not a good starter. You can’t let that rattle you. Just like you cant let a homer rattle you. Or the Ball park.
“He’s on vacation.”
I didn’t know that. Who knows? He may call in just to rant about Joba. LOL!
“Francessa should be a hoot tomorrow.”
He’s on vacation.
————————————
is Saratoga open already ?
LOL, Joba had a bad inning, Ransom made an error… and Stuart writes paragraphs about Cano who had nothing to do with anything this inning.
Hilarious.
Gotta put those rally caps on!
Let’s go Yanks!
Wonder what the pitching coach has to say now?
are the Joba lovers going to write on here today..the ones who say he is a 1 or 2 starter….the ones who say leave in the rotation…the ones who say give him time…. he is not in the mix as one as the best young starters in baseball…i have always said leave him in the rotation if he was better or equal as he was in the pen….well he is worse….the joba/hughes switch may happen sooner then we think
“he will never be a starter. IQ too low.”
how do you judge a 23 yr. old baseball players IQ dumbass.
einsteins yeah don’t start joba to punish him since we have so many other good options!!!!
igawa and others those are really good options…..
what are you people smoking……………….
“einsteins I have an idea to fix the golden child. Do not shake off whatever the cathers puts down…”
I’m starting to believe he should get fined every time he shakes off Jorge. Pitchers like Mussina and El Duque earned the right to shake him off, Joba has not.
Doreen,
I don’t know what’s going on. It seems like coming into this season Joba decided to try to become a different kind of pitcher. One who doesn’t rely on velocity.
If you look at that HR that Lind hit – Posada was set up on the outside corner. Joba missed his spot and the ball tailed back over the plate.
That’s the kind of pitch you can get away with if its 96-97. But if it’s 92 it’s going to get hit hard.
Right now he’s throwing his fastball very much like he was in college.
When he was in college he was sitting 92-94. When the yankees drafted him Nardi Contreras worked with him, fixed his mechanics and he added 4-6 mph on his fastball. And that’s when he exploded as a prospect.
It seems to me this year that he’s trying to get back closer to what he was in college.
I don’t know why. He isn’t progressing from one start to the next.
I don’t think he’s hurt. But I think he’s almost more concerned about not getting hurt than throwing the way he can.
I think Damon has somewhere to go lol
Didn’t Posada say Chamberlain should be in the pen? Maybe he’s helping him back there.
It is still 4th Inning, so I believe we will win. Thier bulppen is beat up too and we have Aceves.
Still, one has to evaluate Joba realistically. Given what he did in 2007 in the bullpen, he keeps getting a pass. I think as a starter he has enough sample to evaluate him. I am not sure if he is learning from his mistakes. He continues to throw enormous amount of pitches, blowing out the bullpen. In addtion, he does not yield to the veteran catcher. And his stuff is not as good as it was in 2007, even accounting for the fact the when you move from BP to SP you will lose a few miles. His control is not great or the league has learnt to lay off his slider and he can not fool them any more.
May be we have real head case here and if he does not change or show improvement rest of the reason, in the off season he will be in the discussion as a trade possibility for some one like Hanley Remirez.
SJ – I’m a little surprised no one has pulled the treatment that Johnny Damon gave Phil Hughes, with Joba. It might be one thing his ego responds to.
Gosh, you would think that Joba just had the worst start of any Yankee this season… I recall seeing similar results from CC, AJ, Pettitte, Hughes, Wang… am I forgetting anyone?
He was awful today, and even worse given the 4-0 lead he was spotted, but let’s not go overboard.
oh, now Cecil is throwing strikes. awesome!
Angel (OPPC) – A tale told by idiots, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing
July 5th, 2009 at 3:05 pm
Well I guess it doesn’t really surprise me, but it does surprise me that they’d invest so much time out their days to rag on a team they appear to despise.
Legendary? It’s almost becoming legendary for its ability to impersonate Red Sox Nation circa 2004.
————————————————————
Well, don’t forget that this is part of the same people that booed Rodriguez when he hit 3 homers in his first 3 at bats against Colon and a smattering of boos for an RBI single and more for a drive to the middle of the track in center field.
SJ44 -
A little “tough love” may be all they have left to try with him. But it would be at a sacrifice to the team at this point. They have to be ready to follow through on their word if he continues to be stubborn.
Unless he’s pitching hurt…
86 pitches in 3.2 innings is as bad as it gets
The only relative thing about Joba today is that David Price had just about as bad an outing as Joba had today. Difference is that Price is just starting out as a starter. Joba hasn’t learned anything yet in 2 years. Maybe he was abused with the front office and management of his innings, but he has refused to learn and change his habits after each start.
The criticism of Joba today is completely warrented.
He flushed a lead down the drain with no resistence doing the same things that has made him an ordinary pitcher.
He’s not learning from start to start. In fact, he’s getting worse.
This is s day teammates have to get in his grill.
He deserves it.
Can’t keep pitching like this and expect people to fawn over you.
He let Raul Chavez beat him TWICE with the same pitching pattern. Thats inexcusable.
He’s putting the team in a tough hole if this is all he is as a starting pitcher.
It means they are really going to have to slug in the second half of the year in his starts because he is not showing he is capable of giving them consistent length and quality.
joba needs to get that mean streak back,knock batters off the plate
Kay still complaining about pies.
“For those who want Joba yanked from the rotation – you have to ask yourselves if you want Sergio Mitre or Kei Igawa instead.
For better or worse, we’re stuck with the stubborn young man.”
I want him yanked to get him fixed. Throw him down a level and let him work out his issues down there. They did it to Hughes and they did it to Kennedy. There is clearly a problem, his velocity is down and it’s not normal. He’s throwing all of his pitches to throw all of his pitches. He has no rythm and he’s lasting barely 6 innings. Someone needs to teach this guy how to pitch, no is doing that up here.
Let it be Igawa, or go find someone else. They can’t keep doing this every 5 days.
Joba should change his name to Joke
serenity now
Maybe a visit under the O’Neill banner would be good for Jobber. Where is that Joe Francisco person?
I agree Joba needs to get tough love, pitching like this is not going to cut it!
Matsui!!!
Like I said this game is not over!
A THRILLA
FROM GODZILLA!
It’s a game again! Thank you, Godzilla!!
Matsui!
MATSUI MAKES THIS LESS UNBEARABLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
“Joba fell apart like a cheap suit after the Ransom error”
you definitly have a better analogy in you than that…
matsui!!!
I told you! Godzilla!!
The stadium taketh and giveth right back =)
BBFan, its more about the meltdown of Joba the Fake. He has shown nothing as a starter and sadly he wouldn’t be anything in the bullpen. If I were the GM or manager I would send him packing right now. Let him figure things out in the minors, not the majors.
If I were Posada I would punch him out. Stop the shaking off, stop the arrogance. He needs to follow and get get to know that he doesn’t have a clue about how to call his own game.
A trip down may be the best thing to happen to him.
Matsuiii!!! A-rod looks like hes trying to talk Joe into putting him into this game…
YES!!!!
Matsui
Anyone ready for a 17-15 final?
Both bullpens are exhausted and both starters are horsecrap!
Matsui is swining the bat the best he has in three years!
thats a big hit
Comeback Kids!!!
Let’s go!!
1st place in sight…
Couldn’t agree more on the tough love and Jorge is the first one that needs to get in his face. His teammates also need to ask him, how come Hughes is smart enough to learn not to get beat on his 3rd and 4th best pitch and you aren’t? Maybe the unfavorable comparison to our other young stud (yanno the one whose actualy pitching like a stud?) will set him straight.
Yay!
Brandon K’s Big Papi and the RS strand runners at 2nd and 3rd
Still 4-2 good guys – going to the 6th…
ATTA WAY!! Jabaar mess clean up time! Godzilla!!!
As I said it is only the 4th inning and we will win this game. Their bullpen is shot too and we have Aceves who will go multiple innings.
CB -
I think you hit the nail on the head, and I’ve thought it myself, that if he’s not hurt, he is definitely afraid of getting hurt. And it may not be a conscious thing, either.
Hurray Hideki!
It’s a game again at least.
Nick in SF -
My thing with Joba is not that he stunk today – bad games happen – but the last few starts have been difficult. Difficult to watch, but more importantly, it looks like he’s having difficulty putting a good game together. So it’s more frustration – and I’m sure no one is more frustrated than Joba himself.
Mati got! us back in the game,breath
Joe, please put him 5th and leave him there
LOL, they have to move the walls back 10 feet next year
Now that’s a legit HR.
BTW AL looks like he’s trying to convince GI Joe back in this game. RESIST THE TEMPTATION !
Thank you Hideki. One run away.
Arod might have to bat before this thing is all over.
I haven’t been critical of the new stadium at all, really. I don’t mind all the extra homers too much as long as the Yankees win at home, which is truly the only important result. However that home run that Aaron Hill just hit was the biggest joke of a homer I have seen at the new stadium. That was a pop up. They need to raise the height of the fence out there and right and maybe move it back a few feet. Most of the “cheap” homers this season have at least been hit hard, line drives, would have been doubles. Even Matsui’s right there was hit much harder than Hill’s, Hideki got his on the good part of the barrel.
the wind stopped swisher’s ball
Matsui loves July. Woooot!
Matsui has earned the 5th sport in the lineup to protect A-
Rod. He is Hot Hot Hot.
A Yankees muppet
The criticism of Joba today is completely warrented.
warranted
I have been writing here for the past three weeks that the Yankees have to institute a “no shake-off” policy when it comes to Joba. His insistence on throwing too much offspeed always bites him in the butt.
It should sell quite a few more Joba Rules T-Shirts… and it just might help him learn how to pitch.
He’s not pitching hurt Doreen. They wouldn’t run him out there if he was hurt.
He’s pitching without swagger. He is trying to trick people and its not working.
After the Mets debacle, they sat him down and told him to stop shaking off the catchers, use your fastball more, and be aggressive in the zone, even when you get in trouble.
If you get beat with your fastball, keep throwing it.
He just won’t do it. Why? Its a mystery to everybody.
Today’s performance is inexcusable. It really is.
He could be sitting with a 6-7 run lead. Instead, the bullpen is going to be on fumes again because of his effort.
Not good and its got to change the second half of the year.
If he thinks he’s going to survive as a starting pitcher pitching like Jamie Moyer, he will be back in the bullpen in 2010 and this experiement will be over.
meanwhile, after all this bad pitching today, it’s an 8-7 game and far from over. Pitchers, even the best ones, have bad starts. Didn’t Johan Santana give up 9 runs to the Yankees in 3 innings a couple of weeks ago? Joba is 23 years old, going through tough times is part of the learning process for starting pitchers. Unless the Yankees sign 3 more free agent starters with 5 or more years left in their careers they are going to have to use young pitchers in the rotation. Joba, Hughes, maybe Aceves, all of them are home grown and have the ability to be good starters. It’s just a matter of consistency, just look at David Price, he isn’t exactly tearing it up either.
Joba will be okay with Molina back.
At least the Matsui homer distracted Kay from his pie speech
Cano with no men on is a thing to behold.
Pathetic
July 5th, 2009 at 3:13 pm
If I were Posada I would punch him out.
————————————————————
OK, Mr. Tuffy. I doubt that you could punch a dogie.
4th inning was tough on pitchers all around.
Big surprise that Cano gets on when the bases are empty.
I’ll take it, but I’ll glare at the TV when they show his face.
wow, I go out for a little while, turn on the radio and see that Cecil is still in. First, that’s not a good thing because it means he’s settled down. Secondly, what happened to Joba? Wow. If the Yankees lose this game, ok – it’s just one game. However,in the bigger picture – it’s huge. This rotation is in shambles all of a sudden. Wang is out, Andy is still shaky despite a good game last time out and Joba looks like Phil circa early 2008. What to do? Can we afford to keep him in the rotation?
Matsui-sama rules all!
I feel bad for all the people that left for Scranton, the game is postponed again from the wet grounds.
Posada #5 spot 3 for 3
Cano #7 spot 2 for 3 (I think)
Yankees win-win.
Mariners leading RS 4-2 top of the 6th
Why cant Kay admit on tv he doesn’t like the pies in face its not the yankee way like he says on his radio show.
And Ransom is a butcher atleast with Pena you would get great defense.
SJ44 -
I’m sure you’re right about him not being hurt. Just looking for answers, you know? But I think CB had a good point – that he might be trying to pitch in a way that allows him to avoid getting hurt?
Anyway, It’s a darn shame and the timing couldn’t be worse today.
i really believe joba is pitching scared at the stadium….better get over….big start for him Friday nite against the angels…if not who knows over the break
BJ Ryan in the 4th inning….
MG —
That’s fine but Joba isn’t having a bad outing, he’s having a pretty awful month. And it’s obvious that his problems are mental… shaking off a veteran catcher, refusing to throw his fastball inside….etc
I odn’t know how you can be 23, arrogant as hell in terms of following instruction and your catcher’s advice and also cowardly in terms of challenging hitters, but he’s pulled it off.
“He’s not pitching hurt Doreen. They wouldn’t run him out there if he was hurt.”
They pitched Wang at the start of the season after seeing him in spring trainging. They saw no problems with him and look what happened? That wasn’t a “just happened” type of thing either. I don’t know how anyone can trust the evaluation skills of these Yankees after the Wang situation.
Joba does not challenge hitters and throws too many pitches. Watching him pitch is like watching paint dry. He has time to develop but has a lot to learn.
This is why fans liked him in the pen. He threw in the upper 90’s and blew hitters away.
Cano can’t do
SOS, I wonder if Damon will get on Joba’s case…….I think I know the answer to that. He IS the fair-haired boy who can do no wrong……
“I think you hit the nail on the head, and I’ve thought it myself, that if he’s not hurt, he is definitely afraid of getting hurt. And it may not be a conscious thing, either.”
A major part of generating velocity is the intention to throw hard. You have to build your delivery and be committed to throwing hard to throw with sustained velocity.
Joba just doesn’t appear to be as aggressive to the plate this year. And this has nothing to do with bull pen vs. starter. He looked great as a starter last year before the injury.
I think he’s got it in his head that if he throws harder he might get hurt. He looks to me like he’s trying to avoid that.
There is no chance Joba wants to be a reliever. None – if for no other reason that getting sent to the pen could cost him more than $100M + in lost salary due to the pay scale of relievers and starters.
I’m sure the Hendricks brothers, his agents, have made this explicitly clear to him.
And coming into this year I’d guess Joba was thinking to himself and may have been told by his agents – if you don’t throw 150 innings/ make your innings limit you are risking getting sent to the pen. Just make it through this season, healthy, as a starter.
To me it looks like he is not throwing naturally because he is trying to pussy foot around not getting injured.
Why is Cano stealing??? O for last 2 on steals… the guy just cannot steal at a good percentage… stop letting him go or stop giving him the sign
” But I think CB had a good point – that he might be trying to pitch in a way that allows him to avoid getting hurt?”
I missed where CB said that but it’s an extremely good point. Because if you go back to his tendinitis seems to be where his troubles really started. which is annoying in and of itself. First Hughes, then Wang, now Joba? Why are Yankee pitchers coming back from injuries so tentative and messed up in the head? Seriously, does anyone have a theory on this? Poor coaching, poor rehabilitation, or just plain headcase pitchers? I’d love to know!
SEA 4 – BOS 3
another solo shot – this one from Ellsbury
Come on Brandon… 2 quick outs…
First, that’s not a good thing because it means he’s settled down.
****************************************
Or it could mean that the Jays have no choice but to leave him in, because they have has little options in the bullpen as the yankees do, after the extra innings game yesterday.
Why is the pie throwing even a topic of discussion for Kay is beyond me. His sanctimonious airs are so annoying. And yes, if Jeter is the guy that gets the walk off win, he gets pied. There is no “I” in team.
SJ you know who Joba reminds me of right now. Jon Lester when he was pulling the same crap in Boston shaking off his catcher not throwing the fastball, Josh Beckett did the same crap and it took a whole offseason to get him straightened out.
I can live with a bad/horrific start here and there. The thing with Jobber is that he just looks..off
I expected ups and downs with him, but I dunno, something stinks here.
Oh well, hopefully his next time out there is better
I think Joba heard the fans today, it may have been the first time in his short career that he’s heard this……Joba, you’re a power pitcher, that’s your DNA….Maybe some time in the classroom and pull up the tapes from 5-6 weeks ago vs. Cleveland…..He was overwhelming that night as I thought he turned the corner that evening….Guess again….
Tampa Bay fans are eager to send Price back down to Triple A because of his problems, he’s not exactly a great example case for Joba to stay where he is.
No way the yanks run a 23 year old kid out to the mound if he is hurt in anyway. He just cant put the ball where he wants right now. And when you throw 91 this is what happens.
Meanwhile, the first batter of this whole game summed up Joba’s problem. He went to a 3-2 count on Marco Scutaro and threw him a freaking slider, trying to get cute and strike him out. He needs to stop going 3-2 so much anyhow, but once you’re there, challenge Marco Scutaro on 3-2 leading off the game. You have a great fastball. You want to start going deeper in games. Stop throwing Marco Scutaro 3-2 sliders leading off the game, unless you can start getting it over for a strike more often in that situation.
Where in the heck is Eric Hinske? Will he ever get an at bat?
Anyone else think that breakfast taco from Dunkin Donuts looks nasty? Gross.
I completely agree about him not wanting to be a reliever CB.
I think Girardi needs to get in his grill and tell him, “the bullpen is a place for failed starters for the most part. Right now, you are failing as a starter. Start showing why you should be a starting pitcher”.
Its one thing to have a bad outing. Everybody has those.
That’s not the point of my criticism of Joba.
My problem is, he pitches the same way all the time. Doesn’t matter if he has a 4 run lead, he nibbles. He doesn’t attack hitters.
On the rare moment he does and the results aren’t good, he’s the guy that flinches first (vs. the hitter) and gets tentative.
You would think by now we would see some improvement. Even if its incremental.
Unfortunately, we don’t and he is what he is right now and that’s not good for the Yankees who are already down a starter.
swisher?? does the ball have butter on it?
“Gosh, you would think that Joba just had the worst start of any Yankee this season… I recall seeing similar results from CC, AJ, Pettitte, Hughes, Wang… am I forgetting anyone?
He was awful today, and even worse given the 4-0 lead he was spotted, but let’s not go overboard.”
Then you were not watching Joba’s past starts. Just because Yanks were winning some of his starts by other means (BP, Offense), does not mean he is doing good.
Nobody, at least myself, bashing him. What is frustrating is he is not learing from start to start from his mistakes. May be he is hurt and hiding it.
Kay was complaining about the pies? What a loser…..he and Francesca should hang out together as they are both humorless clowns. Someone should pie HIM in the face – with shaving cream, not whipped cream.
The Yanks are back in the game – there’s plenty of time if their pen can hold it, but Joba killed them. He’s not helping the team the way he’s pitching, so he should be sent to AAA.
“To me it looks like he is not throwing naturally because he is trying to be a pussy foot (minus the foot) and not get injured.”
That’s a bit better.
Swish our gold glove Right fielder
cano does 2 things well. he is a good fielder with huge range and he hits when it does not matter.
he cannot run and cannot hit when it counts why run a guy with less then 20 SB’s in almost 4 years…
he runs like dan uggla, BAD>>>
I can too, SA. Its the lack of any improvement thats a bit concerning.
But I’m certainly not writing him off.
Something has to be done or said, though. That much is clear.
Come on Russell, overdue for a moonshot…
)
(show ‘em why you should have been an All-Star – not your fault no one is ever on base
Tell Kay to watch Kim’s interview with Jeter on her blog. He already said he wouldn’t mind getting pied because it would mean they won. This is such a non-issue its ridiculous.
Agreed Angel.
Also the natives are already getting restless about Joba
come on Alby
That ball boy looks like Ransom
nice alby!
See how alby picked up Swish?
I can’t believe how many people (not here) are blaming Cody Ransom for the big inning. It’s amazing – Joba has a great gig. He gets all of the credit and none of the blame for his performances.
See waht Alby did.
Hid not let Swisher’s mistake get out of hand with runner on third.
Good job.
Pat M makes a great point.
Today was the first day Joba ever heard it from the crowd.
They really booed him.
Prior to today, everything Joba did was ok with the fans. Even bad performances were rationalized.
“Its Posada’s fault”.
“Its Girardi’s fault”.
“Its (insert name of player who didn’t play perfectly behind Joba) fault”.
Today, the fans said, “Joba, its YOUR fault”.
Maybe that’s the cold snapped towel to the face he needs to get himself going.
I don’t care if he is a first time starter or not, to be winless at home on July 5 isn’t good and isn’t progress.
go to aceves for 2 innings now. abeledajo has thrown 35 + pitches…
aceves off 2 days, they need 2 innings from him and some offense………..
good job that inning Alby
SJ,
The more this season goes on, the more I really do think he’s pitching somewhat scared.
The shoulder tendinitis as a physical injury is really unlikely to have caused any major problem. Tons of pitchers get it every year. Unless there is a real tear the inflammation heals.
But I think that injury may have scared him.
He’s reverted back to his college fastball.
And I’d have to think the conversations between him and Hendricks brothers after that injury were interesting.
Fact is – coming into this season – I’m sure Joba pretty much felt that his career was at a bizarre cross roads that was nothing of his own doing.
If he happenned to get hurt this year and didn’t make his innings requirements the pressure and din for the yankees to put him back in the pen would have been intense. Even if the injury was a fluke – he was still at risk for losing his spot as a starter.
And I’d guess the only thing that would have made the organization look at him as a “failed starter” were injuries. The constant Papelbon comparisons could not have escaped Joba and his agents (nor Papelbon’s constant complaints about relievers being underpaid compared to starters).
To me this season looks like him pitching with his career on the line – and his career is on the line not primarily due to performance but due to his ability to throw 150 innings.
That seems like the endpoint for success as he may have defined it – whether consciously or unconsciously.
He’s just not trying to throw as hard. I think that’s the bottom line.
But at the same time he doesn’t know how to succeed at lower velocities in the majors. He doesn’t trust his fastball and in turn he falls in love with his breaking pitches even more.
Its deffinatly mostly Joba’s fault but Ransom is pathetic he has done nothing in stripes hes a career minor leaguer and will never be good in the bigs. If was gona be good he would have done it already
it’s nice when you grumble because your team is getting smacked around, 8-4, you go mow your lawn for 30 minutes, then come back and find the score 8-7.
Betsy, you know people are already clamouring to stand in line to polish Joba’s future HOF plaque.
Why did the Yankees sign Hinske if he’s not going to play?
Lets hope Damon has the stones to publically call him out ala Hughes and it trasnforms him to a fearless ballsy pitcher as it did Phil. Maybe we will be lucky and it will release the 97/98 mph fastball heaters he once had not long ago .
@Doreen, etc.: if it looked like I was whitewashing Joba’s awful start today or his other recent lethargy, I’m sorry. But, despite what people sometimes say about Andy and Wang, Joba actually is the #5 starter. This kind of stuff goes with the territory.
Hopefully his teammates and coaches and manager will pound some sense into his knucklehead. And hopefully when this game is over we can say “but the Yanks are still 11-5 in his starts!”
bj ryan has really fell of the face of the earth…remember when he gave up that walkoff? homerun to giambi last year on draft day
if melky gets on ransom needs to bunt..
if he cannot bunt that is an issue…when you are a220 hitter you better be able to bunt
People who are blaming Ransom for Joba’s meltdown are either not watching the game or just pretend to be ignorant.
That was a very difficult error.
Even otherwise, with two outs how mnay more batters came to plate after that? Just count…..
And look at what less haralded Alby did in a much worse sitatuion – runner on third and only one out.
B.J. Ryan is a shell of his former self.
Poor guy used to be their closer.
“Why did the Yankees sign Hinske if he’s not going to play?”
Cecil was pitching. If it had been a RHP Hinske would have started. Meanwhile Ransom is so horrible.
eights it has been 4 games with hinske, they traded for him not signing him and he is the 2nd to last or last guy on the roster.. that means you do not play often…
Kay was going to say something when I think Lind hit the hr in the 4th. But he never got to finish. What was he talking about?
NIce rnasom i expected a double play.
Junior works a walk after a 10-pitch AB
Lester out – Masterson coming in…
1 on, 2 outs, top 7
Go, Guti!
Posada should smack Joba win or lose,of course Posada won’t!
Jeter!!!!!!!
jeter!!! yanks take the lead!
JETER!
“Why did the Yankees sign Hinske if he’s not going to play?”
Go back and read this blog comments from the beginning. I think your question was answered 100 times already
Go Captain!!!
Posada does a horrible job of catching Joba. All he did today was call fastballs. Even David Cone said they need to mix in Chamberlain’s offspead pitches earlier. Please Girardi let Cervelli/Molina catch Joba.
The Captain!
THE CAPTAIN LEADS THE YANKEES CHARGE!!
Good day for Federer, Jeter and Tiger
EL CAPI-TAN!!!
Nice Jeter!
Bullpen, do your stuff!!!!
And Joba’s off the hook. Again.
batting practice baseball today, this reminds me of Mariners vs Yankees in the hey days.
Hinske hasn’t played because the Jays have loaded up on lefties… other than Halliday. There haven’t been many situaitons. If they go to a RH in the pen I think you’ll see Hinske for Ransom
Joba is not trying to avoid injury… for some reason he’s convinced himslef he’s a slider/curveball pitcher. He has to throw 60-70 percent fastballs and when he does he’s very good. when he doesn’t… which is far too often
Way to go Captain…
Jetes you da man!!
Wild game.
ok, I’m pretty sure the Blue Jays will file a grievance with the MLB on the new stadium’s dimensions, LOL. Go Captain!
bj ryan had arm injuries and lost 4 miles on his pitches and there you have it….
success and failure is such a fine line…
The ball just flies out this place.
Thanks Captain!
Jetes!
Cant wait to see 95-100 degrees in this place
CB,
That’s definitely part of it. I also know they were not happy with him conditioning-wise when he came to ST and I think he has been behind in that area all year.
I think his legs aren’t as strong as they need to be and that’s where his missing velocity has gone.
I think its, “look in the mirror time” for Joba. He has too much talent to pitch this bad and he’s really pitched like this for a lot of the season.
At some point, you just have to do what it takes to want it more. Better conditioning, better work with the catchers and coaches, better everything.
Phil Hughes got sick of failing and turned his career around.
Will Joba get sick enough of pitching like this and pay the price to get better/
That’s what its going to take for him.
He has so much talent. However, he is a shell of what he was 2 years ago, performance and conditioning-wise, IMO, and he can’t slide by anymore.
The league has adjusted to him and he has to make the adjustment. Sooner rather than later.
To the idiot who complained about Joba throwing too many fastballs….
He was throwing a shutout when 39 of rthe first 47 pitches were fast balls. When he got away from it he got his brains beat in… assuming he hasa a brain that is.
“batting practice baseball today, this reminds me of Mariners vs Yankees in the hey days.”
Or Yanks/Cleveland, when the Indians had Manny, Baerga, Lofton, Belle, and Thome.
“People who are blaming Ransom for Joba’s meltdown are either not watching the game or just pretend to be ignorant.
That was a very difficult error.”
That was an easy tailor made GIDP if I ever saw one, and it was hit right at him. That said Joba sucked today.
walk this way Johnny
We say Andy has struggled and battled most of the year – so has Joba – to a bigger degree because at least Andy is able to give us 6 innings most of the time. If Joba is ever sent down (that will never happen), then Phil goes into the rotation…..boy, then the pen will be very shaky. I’m starting to think we need another starter. Joba is very, very, very unreliable.
“The ball just flies out this place.”
that was actually a legit HR, the only one that really wasn’t was the Hill HR.
If you are going to the LH blog game in Scranton, stop. Game cancelled. Don’t ask me why this is the link.
http://indianapolis.indians.mi.....p?sid=t531
This gets me even more frustrated with Joba.
The way they are swinging the bats today, this should have been a blowout game so the entire bullpen can rest while the Jays blow up their pen.
Instead its a dogfight because Joba can’t do his job and the Yankees have to blow up their pen to try and hang on.
I’m really hoping guys get in his grill after this one.
It may be the last shot of seeing if they can turn him around and get more out of him than they are right now.
Bj ryan has a bigger head than bonds does.
“Or Yanks/Cleveland, when the Indians had Manny, Baerga, Lofton, Belle, and Thome.”
Flashbacks to Torre burning out the starters when they clearly was struggling. Bernie and Oneill got up for those games, so did Manny, Belle and Lofton. I hated Lofton.
It may sound harsh, but if Joba continues to pitch the way he does and goes to BP, he will be like Veras, throws hard, but no control. The scouts and the league have got to know him better now and they will lay off his slider out of the strike zone unlike in 2007 when they did no know him.
“Then you were not watching Joba’s past starts. Just because Yanks were winning some of his starts by other means (BP, Offense), does not mean he is doing good.”
Thanks, yeah, this is the first game I’ve watched this year. Sheesh.
Yes, today was not the first time Joba has struggled in this way, it was just the first time he couldn’t contain the damage better. Still, even in all those games he couldn’t get out of the 5th inning, there is something to be said for only giving up 2 or 3 runs.
I’m not quite read to say that Joba is killing this team and needs to go down to Scranton. Who knows, maybe we’ll get there, but we’re not there yet.
Brandon… I’M AWESOME !
July 5th, 2009 at 3:44 pm
“People who are blaming Ransom for Joba’s meltdown are either not watching the game or just pretend to be ignorant.
That was a very difficult error.”
That was an easy tailor made GIDP if I ever saw one, and it was hit right at him. That said Joba sucked today.
————————————————————
And when the outfield butchered two play in Atlanta in the same inning, it was Pettitte’s fault for not pitching well. People need to be somewhat more consistant in their placing the blame.
They need to remove some of those rows of seats in front of the bleachers. They’ll lose some money but that maybe the only solution in terms of changing the demensions.
The outfield will become a bit quirky but it will slow down some of the homers.
“I think his legs aren’t as strong as they need to be and that’s where his missing velocity has gone.”
SJ,
This is absolutely feasible and as likely if not more likely than him being worried about injury. It could be either or a mixture of both.
He needs to be better. There’s no doubt about it.
One of the strange parts of the season was how he was able to throw that game against the Indians?
That was phenomenal. If his legs were down due to conditioning how did he throw 97 in the 8th innings? Or is it to the point where he can only do that if he is at his maximum best and no pitcher can feel that good consistently across a season? Or if he was concerned about injury why did he air it out that game?
It’ll be very interesting and telling to see how he rebounds next game and what his stuff looks like.
And even with his stuff looking so down – he’s 8th in the AL in strike out rate.
The talent is unbelievable – but he needs change what he’s doing right now.
Hughes had a 5.45 ERA as a starter he doesn’t belong in the rotation. Why would the yankees take him out of the bullpen. He looks more like a future closer the way he is pitching compared to a future starter.
OK the problem w/ these rainouts in AAA is EL Nino isn’t getting his reps, Yankees send him to AA to get his reps.
bad baserunning Johnny, tag up there.
SJ44,
One thing that may be a factor going forward is that Joba had his success as a starter last year with Molina behind the plate and he knows that. It could help him psychologically to have Molina catching his games. He shook off Molina too but he may have more confidence following his signals.
Phil went through so many struggles too and I think they will end up making him a better pitcher. If Joba can get through this, I think it will also make him a better pitcher. I don’t know them personally, of course, but Phil’s always been a mature, level-headed kid – this should come as no surprise as his makeup was apparently off the charts in HS. He hasn’t let the injuries discourage him and he’s worked very hard (remember he showed up to camp early last spring, then this year he went out to CA to work at that special gym). Joba is obviously more emotional than Phil – I don’t think he’s as mature (that in and of itself is not a bad thing as he’s still a kid), but his stubborness and ego are getting in the way and that’s what’s disturbing. It’s amazing we’ve come full circle with these kids……
“I’m not quite read to say that Joba is killing this team and needs to go down to Scranton. Who knows, maybe we’ll get there, but we’re not there yet.”
It’s ok. I still remember the Ian Kennedy – Tom Glavine comparisions from last season by Pete with most agreeing.
Ugg was that a “boston sucks” chant I just heard? Can we not stoop to the level of the Boston fans please.
no pain, no gain
86w183
July 5th, 2009 at 3:44 pm
To the idiot who complained about Joba throwing too many fastballs….
He was throwing a shutout when 39 of rthe first 47 pitches were fast balls. When he got away from it he got his brains beat in… assuming he hasa a brain that is.
——————————————————
Thats what Cone said if you dont mix in your breaking balls earlier in the game when you need them later on you wont have a feel for them. Maybe Joba should just throw only fastballs the entire game I’m sure that will make a great starting pitcher excellent job by Posada.
It was brief at least, booed down by real Yankee fans
Posada!!!!!!!!
We’re 3 hours into this game and it’s only the 5th inning!
10-8 and Posada is officially EN FUEGO!
“Phil went through so many struggles too and I think they will end up making him a better pitcher.”
It’s interesting – because Phil went through a lot of struggles but only at the major league level.
I believe that in his entire time in the minors Hughes never pitched with the bases loaded. Not once. That’s how dominant phil was.
But the majors are a different story.
And Joba is now struggling for the first time in his career as a professional.
Posada is en fuego.
Big game by Posada today in the clean-up spot.
The Old Guard are having a great game today
“That was an easy tailor made GIDP if I ever saw one, and it was hit right at him. That said Joba sucked today.”
Brandon, did you see how far up the ball jumped? It was not routine. Still, he should have made the play though. After all, these are major leaguers.
goddammit the amount of clutch hitting today is unbelievable!
HIP HIP JORGE!!!!!!!!
wow..jorge with the HUGE game
Jorge is HOT!!!
looks like the yankees found a new 5 hitter
Hip Hip, JORGE! Hip Hip, JORGE! Hip Hip, JORGE! Hip Hip, JORGE! Hip Hip, JORGE! Hip Hip, JORGE! Hip Hip, JORGE! Hip Hip, JORGE! Hip Hip, JORGE! Hip Hip, JORGE! Hip Hip, JORGE! Hip Hip, JORGE! Hip Hip, JORGE! Hip Hip, JORGE! Hip Hip, JORGE!
That was annoying, but on another note, Hip Hip, Jorge! 10-8!
Posada 4 for 4, he’s running into a lot of good luck
Posada,let’s hear it for the boy!!
more more more
GGBG
July 5th, 2009 at 3:54 pm
We’re 3 hours into this game and it’s only the 5th inning!
10-8 and Posada is officially EN FUEGO!
————————————–
Well the stadium does play like a bandbox. How many of those homeruns were legitimate today I dont think any. When the weather heats up expect more of these type of games.
JORGE 4 LIFE!!!!!
Stay hot Jorgie, now no one will be able to pitch around ARod and Tex will get hot too! I spent all winter and spring dreaming of the 2 of them being hot at the same time – hasnt happened yet, but looking like soon!!!!
Jorge is on a roll. Seeing the ball good.
Was there a point to that, E-gawa?
Jfin, did you watch any of Phil’s recent starts? The kid had fantastic stuff. In particular, he had a brilliant game against the Rangers. Forget ERA – and also, he’s just 23.
CB,
It’s all mechanics with Joba. He has been a mess all year with his fastball command just like Hughes last year. This guy used to paint the black on both sides of the plate. Where did that ability go?
How long can Albie go and who would follow him? I pray it’s not Robertson……
Miggy gives up the lead..
4-4 tie
runners on 1st and 3rd, 2 out, bottom 7
Lowe coming in…
“Brandon, did you see how far up the ball jumped? It was not routine. Still, he should have made the play though. After all, these are major leaguers.”
I’m going to be very honest here. IT WAS A TAILOR MADE DP, EVERY 3B WANTS THAT TYPE OF BOUNCE, HE PLAYED IT LIKE A WUSS.
I’ve also read that Phil went back to his old mechanics this year……..but whatever, he was a different pitcher in ST.
Matsui! Posada is slow!
If Posada was Barry Sanders, he’d have scored there.
The point is that there seems to be nothing wrong when there clearly is something wrong by some people on here.
That was not a good send.
When did David Ortiz get on the juice again?
Slide around him, Jorge. Slide around him.
We should be thankful that Ransom butchered that play, otherwise we might not have found out what a terrible pitcher Joba is.
Matsui is on fire too. Too bad Posada just missed getting in there.
LMAO. Posada can hit with anybody and catch, but, sorry, buddy, but, you still can’t run the bases for squat.
Hip, Hi…nevermind.
Jorge Posada may be 37 – but he caught 12 innings yesterday and still has it in him to drive in the winning run in the 12th.
He was savvy enough to be notice immediately that wang wasn’t right and forced wang out of the game yesterday minimizing the risk wang hurts himself more seriously. Only a veteran catcher does that.
Short turn around for a day game today – does Posada get a rest like many veteran catchers would after catching 12? No. He can’t because Alex needs to rest.
And what does the Posada – who has been pilloried by so many yankee fans over the past few weeks – do?
4 hits the day after he drives in the game winning run in the 12th.
Posada is an indespensible player. Indespensible.
jfins—-
I don’t care what Cone said, he’s wrong. When Joba throws 2/3 fastballs or more the results are excellent. When he throws 9 out of 10 breaking pitches as he did during his meltdown he stinks. The results bear me out and have for most of the year. Cone threw a very high percentage of fastballs too when he was at his best. I guess he forgot
Hughes had a 5.45 ERA as a starter he doesn’t belong in the rotation. Why would the yankees take him out of the bullpen. He looks more like a future closer the way he is pitching compared to a future starter.
=======================
No
sending Posada against Rios was not a good decision.
CB,
I think what’s notable about the Cleveland performance is, he hasn’t been the same since.
Why? IMO, conditioning. He can’t back up performances because he isn’t conditioned to do so.
He can’t go deep into games and seems to labor pretty much all the time now.
I would love to know what his between starts workout schedule is. I’m curious how much work on his legs besides running he’s doing right now.
He just doesn’t seem strong to me. Perhaps its just my perception based on his performances. He just doesn’t seem to be a guy who is conditioned enough to go deep into games.
That ain’t good if you want to be a good starting pitcher.
seattle ready to give the RedSox the lead
The Yankees should buy a few Segway’s
“I’m not quite read to say that Joba is killing this team and needs to go down to Scranton.”
I agree. He will not be sent to AAA. They have to fix him here. It should not be that difficult. They have to get into his head. They have to be forceful though as he looks like a stubborn kid.
Ransom should only be playing short/2nd
Bad send, Thompson channeling his inner Bobby Meacham on that call.
ugh … Mark walks in the lead run
5-4 BOS
Seattle BP just walked in a run. 5-4 Boston
this game sucks
CB, you’re right – Phil never faced that situation, which tells you how unbelivably talented and dominant he is/was. That didn’t help him up here – but I thought in September 2007, he had turned things around. August07 doesn’t count for much with me because it’s obvious he couldn’t trust his legs and his mechanics may have been affected. I don’t know what happened in early 2008 – if the Yanks had changed his mechanics or he was injured and compensating for the rib even before it was diagnosed, but either way, he’s been through the wringer. He’s been booed off the field, he’s been trashed by experts as being a bust – and he pitches in the same town as Johan Santana, a constant reminder of what may have been. I like how he’s handled failure – and I’m confident he’ll handle success as well. Joba has never failed before – this is his real test. I don’t think he’s handled success all that well, also…..he’s a complicated character.
CB, you’re right – Phil never faced that situation, which tells you how unbelivably talented and dominant he is/was. That didn’t help him up here – but I thought in September 2007, he had turned things around. August07 doesn’t count for much with me because it’s obvious he couldn’t trust his legs and his mechanics may have been affected. I don’t know what happened in early 2008 – if the Yanks had changed his mechanics or he was injured and compensating for the rib even before it was diagnosed, but either way, he’s been through the wringer. He’s been booed off the field, he’s been trashed by experts as being a bust – and he pitches in the same town as Johan Santana, a constant reminder of what may have been. I like how he’s handled failure – and I’m confident he’ll handle success as well. Joba has never failed before – this is his real test. I don’t think he’s handled success all that well, also…..he’s a complicated character.
Cmon bullpen…let’s hold this thing!
Seattle did more than enough this week.
Tell em Cone.
Betsy
July 5th, 2009 at 3:57 pm
Jfin, did you watch any of Phil’s recent starts? The kid had fantastic stuff. In particular, he had a brilliant game against the Rangers. Forget ERA – and also, he’s just 23.
———————————–
Hughes was very inconsistent as a starter. Except for the game against Texas he has pitched 6 innings or less in all of his starts this year. He looks like a different pitcher coming out of the bullpen.
“Why? IMO, conditioning. He can’t back up performances because he isn’t conditioned to do so.”
Very good point. That could be it. This might all be about his conditioning.
Let’s hope it’s that – because he could pick that up and change it.
At the same time if that’s it then Joba really needs to reassess where his career is.
The season after being shut down with shoulder tendinitis is not the season you want your legs to be weaker than they should. Just puts more stress on your shoulder.
7-4 Boston. 2-3 aint bad!
Phillie and Mets played today ?
Anyway I’m glad Coney pointed that out, AJ is trying to be a leader and break the stale atmosphere in the clubhouse. Makes me love that guy even more.
Good job, ACE!
Ace! Great job!
Joba’s problems have nothing to do with the catchers and Jose Molina isn’t going to make him any better unless Joba picks up his game.
There are no more people to blame.
Joba’s problems are on Joba. His solutions are going to have to come from within.
Work harder, play better, pitch smarter. If not, you will continue to struggle. That’s the way of the game.
Joba is no different than anybody else who has struggled in the game. Solutions come from within.
Ace is like screw this mashing contest.
7-4 bad guys
;-(
Oh well, even if the come back kids (second only to the Yanks in comeback wins with 23) don’t come back, it was a great road trip (5-4 vs. the best teams in baseball)
>…and break the stale atmosphere in the clubhouse.
He didn’t say that part.
Joba’s not getting sent to the minors.
In some ways that could be the worst thing for him.
Guys in the minors can’t hit off speed pitches.
Joba would be able to throw that slider and curve over and over and strike out 15/9 innings.
And no AAA catcher is going to put up any resistance to what Joba wants to throw.
all of these struggles by Joba and Hughes are typical for young pitchers, it’s a learning process. I agree that Joba has been very ordinary since he hurt his shoulder last year, let’s see if he uses today as an opportunity to show the kind of ability he clearly has.
On another note, how crazy is it that Aceves was sent to Scranton at the end of spring training? The guy can really, really pitch…
its great that Jorge and Matsui are swinging a hot bat
can we all agree that whatever Betsy thinks is pretty much wrong? Alicia Silverstone got lucky.
What a difference a good pitcher makes,ACE!
Pel he wanted to say that. LOL
Anyone know whats going on with Nady?
What a joke that wakefield and his 4.30 era is in the allstar game. Yankees are going to make it to world series I dont want this bum ruining there homefield chances.
oh I don’t know SJ….if Molina comes back and tells Joba he’s gonna break his face the first time he shakes him off that just might do the trick!
CB, GB,SJ, and all-
Onto another topic. How many Yankees score on Posadas hit other than Gardner and Damon. Damon’s only real weakness is his arm. With the way he’s playing, what would be the harm in bringing him back on a year to year contract? As well as Matsui has played lately, he is unlikely to be resigned, therefore opening up some playing time for Damon at DH.
Posada unlikely to be ready to full time DH next season, as he appears fully recovered from shoulder surgery.
Would like to hear the pros and cons to resigning Damon.
Nady’s season is over.
“can we all agree that whatever Betsy thinks is pretty much wrong? Alicia Silverstone got lucky.”
Why are you talking about my past girlfriend getting lucky ?
8-4 boston..leading sea
Sometimes, watching Nick Swisher plays games is very, very painful. Today is one of them.
He takes 3 pitches down the middle of the plate with the bases loaded and swings from his heels with nobody on base.
No wonder managers tire of him.
If Joba for some reason bombed the next few starts and they either threw him back in the bullpen or to Scranton. I would go with Aceves as the #5 starter and keep Hughes in the pen for the season.
Haha, i totally thought Jeter was joking the other day about MO needing his massages. Thats great.
I see that Santana lost and the Mets got swept by the Phillies.
>Pel he wanted to say that. LOL
Cone is breaking up the stale environment of the booth, today.
I think I need some coffee, this game is gonna take forever
I think if Damon’s defense was what it was last year, they would be able to work out a short term deal to bring him back.
Now? I’d say a 10% chance of him coming back.
I like Damon. He plays hard, is a great teammate, is accountable and has played well for the Yankees.
However, the decay in his defense is so steep, it makes it just about impossible for the Yankees to consider bringing him back at this time, IMO.
Perhaps if he gets it together defensively in the second half, they think differently.
Right now? I don’t think he’s coming back.
I am about the only one here who has repeatedly predicted that Damon will be back, serving more time as a DH than LF.
We’ll see if that turns out to be correct or not.
Joba isn’t going anywhere… I suspect this humiliation just might get his attention
It’s a well known fact that Rivera enjoys the special massage
Sometimes I wonder if Johan Santana goes home after a game and just cries
It was great to see Mariano holding court down there in the bullpen. All eyes on an animated Mo.
>Sometimes I wonder if Johan Santana goes home after a game and just cries
Shawn Kemp’s illegitimate kids get more support.
Damon is still a great clutch hitter. I think the yanks should resign him to a 1 year deal and make him the DH. I doubt Posada will be the DH next year. So you might as well resign Damon for that role.
SJ,
Yes he struggles at times. But you seem to forget he has a good OBP, gets a ton of fullcount at bats, has power, a great clubhouse guy, and we traded him for Wilson B.
Cody Ransom still can’t hit a breaker.
“Sometimes I wonder if Johan Santana goes home after a game and just cries”
2-0 loss I didn’t even know they were playing today.
Bringing back Damon completely depends on what the DH situation is going to be. I agree with SJ44 that Damon’s defense has suffered this season. He’s the type of player you make exceptions for, though, so, we’ll see how it all plays out. Matsui can’t be back, though, because there’s no chance he can play the field at all and that limits the rest of the roster.
In any event, I’ll miss Matsui regardless and I’d miss Damon. And life will go on.
I don’t think they can afford to bring back Damon as a DH next year because they are going to have other options for that spot.
Especially if Jesus Montero makes the team.
You can see the Yankees are trying to make their roster more flexible next year. That’s a big reason why they are trying to make Ramiro Pena a super utility guy.
I think we are going to hear the term, “roster flexibility” from Cashman almost as much as we hear him say, “Its a process”, this off-season.
“Cody Ransom still can’t hit a breaker.”
He too is in the Shelley Duncan club.
Hope Joba take notes… 2 piches… 2 outs
Nice
Kay Aceves isn’t in the mix either.
“2-0 loss I didn’t even know they were playing today.”
They still play most Sundays, don’t they?
ACE
Good pitching job by Aceves.
“Damon’s only real weakness is his arm. With the way he’s playing, what would be the harm in bringing him back on a year to year contract?”
If his arm were his only weakness he’d be back. But it’s not.
He looks very bad in the outfield. Even today on that line drive hit at him early in the game it looked like he was trying to tiptoe around on ice to get to the ball.
He still runs well but he no longer gets good jumps on balls or takes good routes on balls – it’s as if he’s having a lot of trouble judging the ball off the bat.
He’s rapidly becoming a DH. If they decide they want a real DH next year rather than keeping the slot open to rest regulars/ slot in Montero then he might have a role as a DH on a one year deal.
Otherwise I don’t see it happening. The yankees are serious about improving their defense. Big reason why they didn’t even talk to abreu in the off season.
Ace again!
Ace!
Joba can learn a lot about pitching from Alfredo Aceves.
Ace has half the stuff Joba has and does more with it because he attacks at all time.
Its not always about talent.
The sooner Joba figures that out, the faster we will see the old Joba return.
Aceves is a badass
ACE just pitched an 8 pitch inning,sweeeeeet!
Love the Alfredo sauce
LOL my mom comes into my room to put something on the floor and she says “I can’t stand this ladies voice!!!” to the lady sining God Bless America.
Don’t sell Aceves short, either. He has plus pitches across the board and he outsmarts his opponents a lot of times.
SJ44 July 5th, 2009 at 4:24 pm
Joba can learn a lot about pitching from Alfredo Aceves.
Ace has half the stuff Joba has and does more with it because he attacks at all time.
Its not always about talent.
The sooner Joba figures that out, the faster we will see the old Joba return.
Its not about stuff its about Talent. Ace has talent. Joba has better stuff.
Aceves has been a savior out of the pen but he really is not a relief pitcher long term.
He absolutely has the stuff to be a successful starting pitcher – even in the AL.
4 pitches with command. He uses them all and knows how to pitch.
Pete’s article on the Mets today was really good, it highlights how Minaya has run the team into depletion. Santana was a great FA signing for them but look what happens when the core is on the DL, no foundation what so ever in their farm sys or via int’l signings to lean on.
haha i love when jeter calls himself safe
Yankee Trader
July 5th, 2009 at 4:11 pm
CB, GB,SJ, and all-
Onto another topic. How many Yankees score on Posadas hit other than Gardner and Damon. Damon’s only real weakness is his arm. With the way he’s playing, what would be the harm in bringing him back on a year to year contract? As well as Matsui has played lately, he is unlikely to be resigned, therefore opening up some playing time for Damon at DH.
Posada unlikely to be ready to full time DH next season, as he appears fully recovered from shoulder surgery.
Would like to hear the pros and cons to resigning Damon.
————————————————————
If you’re talking about just on the Yankees, most likely, Jeter. Teixeira would try to will his way around the bases.
Aceves is a gem. What an incredible find!
I love Aceves! Changeup on a 3-2 pitch! Damn!
Damon can be the DH about half the time and LF about half the time. They can make late inning subs for the “D” if they wish, but he gives you a lot more flexibility at DH than Matsui does. There isn’t a FA OF worth more or that assures you better productivity.
Matsui, Nady are gone, that’s about $ 20 Million there. Damon back at somewhat reduced $$$ makes the most sense.
Shouldn’t aceves be a starter?He will give you 6/7 very good inn every time
Boston All-Stars selected:
Beckett
Bay
Wakefield
Papelbon
Pedroia
Youkallis
Yankee All-Stars selected:
Jeter
Teixeria
Rivera
86,
Honestly, I don’t think Damon can play LF anymore. He’s scary out there.
Even balls he catches are adventures. That’s what he has going against him re: coming back next year.
CB,
I agree about Aceves. One of the reasons why I wouldn’t move Hughes out of the bullpen is I think they can slot Aceves into the rotation after the break seamlessly if needed.
In fact, if Joba continues to pitch like this, we may see a Mitre, Aceves back end of the rotation sooner rather than later.
I don’t think anybody saw that coming in April! lol
Final 8-4 RS
Ironic that Brandon (still in ST mode) Morrow finally has a decent outing and leaves with the lead – and the BP that has been so solid – blows it for him.
Oh well. That’s baseball.
Great trip for my guys – can’t imagine many, if any, would have picked them to to 5-4 on the road vs. the 3 best teams in baseball.
Haha, Tex. “Damn it!!”
Damn Teix can scream.
How does Pedroia make the All Star team with his numbers? Fan voting
Hill Cano or Kinsler should have made it.
I’d put Aceves in the rotation on Thursday since Hughes is not an option right now. The guy can flat out pitch and isn’t afraid of anyone.
MG July 5th, 2009 at 4:34 pm
I’d put Aceves in the rotation on Thursday since Hughes is not an option right now. The guy can flat out pitch and isn’t afraid of anyone.
I would keep him in the pen. Not gonna need much from our 5th starter with the O clicking the way it is.
Cano doesn’t deserve to be an all star this year.
Frankly, I’d rather the Yankees play as little as possible in the ASG.
Love that Alex isn’t in it. He can use the rest.
“I’d put Aceves in the rotation on Thursday since Hughes is not an option right now. The guy can flat out pitch and isn’t afraid of anyone.”
pitch count, pitch count we need him too you know. Like I said dip into the minors McAllister or Nova, preferably Nova raise his trade value w/ this spot start hopefully to use him in a trade deadline deal.
“I agree about Aceves. One of the reasons why I wouldn’t move Hughes out of the bullpen is I think they can slot Aceves into the rotation after the break seamlessly if needed.”
That’s more than reasonable. The argument to slot Aceves back into the rotation is a strong one. Protects Hughes’ arm, prevents him from flip flopping, keeps Hughes in a role that he’s been very good in.
A lot was made out of the Sox signing Brad Penny this winter.
Aceves is a better pitcher than Penny is.
He would win games in the AL East as a starter.
Thanks for the feedback on Damon.
If our outfield next year is Jackson, Gardner and Cabrera or Chone Figgins, Gardner and Cabrera, that offers us pretty good defense and speed but no power. Is the loss of power at the outfield corners worth it?
Don’t see the Yankees and Boras getting together and signing another long term $$$$ deal for Matt Holliday, and predict Bay will go back to Boston, as well as Crawford’s option being picked up by the Rays.
Also most of us agree it would help to have another reliable arm in the bullpen, but I only see these teams that are currently out of the playoff race, willing to be sellers-Washington, San Diego, Arizona, KC, Oakland, and Baltimore. Any matchups here? For whom and what would we be giving up?
I have no problems with those All-Star selections.
Heads up play from Posada and aceves on the play.
This game is so long. Just sleeeepy thanks Joba!
Aceves is wily.
GJ ACE NICE!!!
Ace is the man!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ACE flashing his all around skills.
GO ACEVES
Great job Ace!
What a great job by Aceves.
maybe Aceves can fill in for Arod when he needs a day off after that play he just made, he can probably hit also lol
Decision time is coming. Who closes? It’s the top of the Toronto order. whover it is,has a tough job ahead of them. Do you bring in River for the 6th time in 7 games plus the last Monday off? Do you leave aceves in for a fourth inning? I don’t care who’s available….two runs or less, it has to be Rivera.
Alfredo Aceves is a goooood pitcha!!
Man, two outstanding defensive plays in that inning.
3 more outs and he gets the belt today.
Wow! That’s all you can say.
Aceves “aced” this. And great play to end the inning.
Jorge’s the only guy who doesn’t have to wear the red hat. Lucky Jorge.
ACE is getting the championship belt. No debating.
fans on this blog overlooked & took Aceves for granted, after last year.
that probably will change now.
Aceves = an untouchable. Or Ramiro Mendoza, if you prefer
the decision about the rotation is the Yankees, if they give me the keys to the locker room my choice is Aceves, I think he can be a consistent 15-20 game winner in the rotation, he is far more than a short term fill in guy.
“This game is so long. Just sleeeepy thanks Joba!”
we’re sorry that the game bored you, perhaps you’d like a royal throne next to the moat for the next game.
the all star game is a joke. who cares.
aceves has been huge this year.. look at his #’s he has been phenomenal…
Cano during the ASB should get his head examined…
BTW Pedroia’s #’s are waY down this year. way down…
Mo in the 9th please………..
36 pitches for 3 innings for aceves………..
Matsui deserves a ton of credit – he got the ball rolling back after the Joba disaster.
Aceves=MVP of the first half of the season for the yankees
“the decision about the rotation is the Yankees, if they give me the keys to the locker room my choice is Aceves, I think he can be a consistent 15-20 game winner in the rotation, he is far more than a short term fill in guy.”
15-20 ? are you nuts ? dude come off that cloud.
What’s the deal with Scott Downs? Is he on the DL? No appearances in this series.
I think about bringing Damon back for 2 years at a pay cut.
he is a very good player, a tough out…..
BTW a old broken down matsui and posada are much better 5th place hitters then robbie cano…No contest…
Any team in baseball could have signed Aceves out of the mexican league. Only the yankees did the analysis and scouting needed to find him however.
Lots of attention is paid to the big money guys the yankees sign.
But a huge difference between the yankees season so far and many other clubs – like the mets – are the attention the organization has paid to finding guys like Aceves.
They got Aceves and Manny Banuelos from the same team in the mexican leauge. Banuelos is one of their top 5 pitching prospects and going to the futures game.
The team is finding talent everywhere. International amateurs, college, high school, Mexican league, independent league…
Let’s not go overboard on the Aceves fan-fest…15-20 game winner? MVP? Damn.
why not just leave Aceves in for the 9th inning, get him his 50 pitches, and give him the start on Thursday? It’s not like he’s going to be available for any games until then anyway?
aceves would get exposed as a starter he is perfect in this role…
people don’t get it, releiving is easier then starting………………DUH…
Talk about picking up your club, Aceves is making a statement today…..
Too bad the Yankees don’t have space for Matsui next year, he really is one of the more professional hitters out there.
for those of you who didn’t see Aceves start 3 games last year, has he done anything that says he can’t be a consistent winner in the American League?
This is the best they can hope for Aceves
http://www.baseball-reference......html?redir
With that said he is the perfect Ramiro Mendoza guy.
Gotta roll the dice with Ace in the 9th here.
Can’t use Mariano 6 times in 7 days.
Would have been nice if Joba decided to show up today.
Just have to hope Ace has 3 more outs left in that arm.
VB03 matsui would be a good player at 4 mill a yr. not at $16 mill.
Matsui has had a nice career with the yanks…to bad his body broke down the last few years…
I seldom second guess Girardi – armchair style – but Aceves for one more? really?
I’m holding my breath. anyone else?
MG
July 5th, 2009 at 4:47 pm
why not just leave Aceves in for the 9th inning, get him his 50 pitches, and give him the start on Thursday? It’s not like he’s going to be available for any games until then anyway?
———————–
Aceves would be on 3 days rest after throwing a lot of pitches today, I doubt he will start on Thursday.
Oh, how I hate WB Mason. I will never order from them because of these highly annoying commercials.
MG get off that cloud 15-20 game winner in the majors for Aceves ? really get off the cloud. Come back to us.
go to hughes in the 9th then…
not aceves for a 4th inning.
hughes can do it and did not throw many pitches yesterday….
trying to give mo the day off?
Trying for the 4 inning save
He wouldn’t get exposed as a starter because he can throw 4 pitches for strikes, change arm angles and eye levels, and has no fear of failure.
Those attributes make for a good starting pitcher.
Aceves lovefest
brainy pitcher, pretty wife
the anti-Joba
Yeah Mo has pitched in 5 of 6 days
Aceves is a starting pitcher who just happens to be in the pen right now. Very similar to hughes.
To dismiss Aceves as a guy who is only excelling because of his role is to ignore how Aceves is getting outs.
Right now Aceves is throwing 4 pitches with command out of the pen. That’s why he’s succeeding.
The number of pitchers in baseball who can throw 4 pitches with command is very small.
You can do that and you can start and be successful even in the AL.
This isn’t smoke an mirrors. Most starters who go to the pen restrict their repertoire and scale back to their 2 best pitches with the thought that they don’t want to get beat with their 3rd or 4th best pitches.
Aceves hasn’t done that. He keeps mixing pitches and throws with control. I can’t think of many relievers at all who can throw 4 pitches. He has the stuff to go through a line up multiple times and give hitters a different look each time.
Aceves is ROLLING.
Ace = Beast!
SJ but 15 – 20 game winner is assinine.
w/ that who’s the last Yankee to have a 4 IP save ?
Brandon, how long have you watched baseball? I’ve been a fan since 1953 and have seen pitchers with less stuff than him be big winners. He pitches very much like Ed Figueroa, who was a 20 game winner for the Yankees in the 70’s. Here are the 4 starts he made last year, it included 3 quality outings:
3 3 145 Sep 9 NYY @ LAA W,7-1 GS-7 W(1-0) 4 7.0 5 1 1 0 2 0 0 1.29 26 89 63 16 7 14 10 2 0 65 1 0 0 26 1 0 1 0.33 1.09 1b start tie 7b 3 out a5
4 4 150 Sep 15 NYY CHW W,4-2 GS-6 5 6.0 5 2 2 1 3 1 0 1.80 23 87 60 17 6 9 10 4 0 56 0 1 0 22 2 0 0 0.15 0.98 1t start tie 6t 3 out tie
5 5 155 Sep 20 NYY BAL W,1-0 GS-6 4 6.0 5 0 0 3 3 0 0 1.38 24 88 55 13 7 7 11 7 0 62 0 1 0 21 1 0 0 0.37 1.12 1t start tie 6t 3 out tie
6 6 160 Sep 26 NYY @ BOS W,19-8 GS-4 5 4.0 5 4 4 4 1 2 0 2.40 19 77 42 10 4 6 8 1 0 33 1 0 0 15 0 0 2 -0.13 0.68 1b start a 1 4b 3 out a8
You don’t need a 95 mph fastball to be an effective starter, it’s all in command and the ability to get outs.
Joba should go buy Aceves a steak after this.
Bah let him start
GB7-
Scott Downs was on the DL for a toe injury but was eligible to come off last Thursday. Don’t know why he’s not activated.
Aceves gets my vote for the belt and the pie!
Remember Soupy Sales? Still alive? if so maybe he should be a guest pieman!!!!
Whoever said Joba could learn from ACE is spot on.
Joe is pushing it again with this 4 innings on ACE.
Wow, Aceves is king today. Nice win on a beautiful Sunday afternoon.
Aceves.
Aceves = Player of the Game.
BALL GAME!!!
Is Girardi leaving Aceves out there to stetch him out?
Girardi going against teh grain (sort of), i like it
KE VIVA MEXICO !!!!!
15 games above .500!
Ace will get a well deserved 3/4 days off!
Brilliant!
Cashman.
Looks like Ace will get the ball on Thursday.
Yankees going for the sweep tomorrow. Aceves was really great in this game.
The Yankees ABSOLUTELY MUST put Alfredo Aceves in a Xerox machine and make about 3 copies.
wow..just wow
Take notes Joba, that’s how you pitch. Your way ain’t cuttin’ it anymore.
Great, great job by Aceves today. Absolutely outstanding.
Brandon,
Aceves is a much more complete pitcher than Ramiro Mendoza. They aren’t similar pitchers at all.
Ace from Mexico
pitches through Joba’s wreckage
thank you, Alfredo!
“Looks like Ace will get the ball on Thursday.”
He won’t.
Aceves today was simply brilliant. Just brilliant. When you throw in his plus defense, just wow. Great win by the Yanks again, bad start by Joba but they overcame it. Matsui is swinging an extremely hot bat right now, and they scored 10 runs today w/o A-Rod. Let’s go for the sweep tomorrow.
POSADA,MATI,JETES carried this team today,all without ,Kate Hudson’s boy toy!
Aceves is worth his weight in gold
CB at best ACE is Julian Tavarez. He’s not a 15 – 20 GW, he is perfect as the long relief anything goes guy.
This weekend couldn’t have gone any better than this, providing the Yanks win. They would win the series, pick up two games on Boston, and push Toronto further out of the picture for the foreseeable future. Only issues were Wang’s injury and Chamberlain’s failure. Tomorrow, they can sweep and facing Halladay in the series made that almost unlikely. Pettitte hopefully pitches tomorrow like he did in his last start.
Almighty Alfredo …… what a find !
Raid the Mexican League.
I also love how Girardi left him in there 4 innings. I am actually shocked. He needs to learn to ride the hot hand a little more, whether it’s the bullpen or the lineup. Good job by him today.
Jeter’s YES on-field post-game reaction:
http://www.zshare.net/audio/622752025e48a2c8/
Ace is extremely valuable where he is. He took over a game that the Yankees could have easily lost and shut down a lineup that had scored 8 runs off Joba.
There’s no reason to mess with the bullpen right now, especially with Wang having the All Star Break to recuperate.
You toss a 5th starter out there during Wang’s turn and have Aceves ready to relieve if necessary.
I hope Aceves stays in the bullpen, but would not be surprised if he starts on Thurs
Brandon,Aceves is MUCH better then tavarez.Just look at the numbers as a starter from aceves last year.he could be very good starter for the yankees
“Raid the Mexican League.”
We did hence Manny Banuelos.
Brandon,
I don’t think anybody is a consistent 20 game winner anymore.
Can Ace win 12-15 games a year starting for the Yankees? Absolutely.
Nobody in bullpens throw 4 pitches for strikes, superior command, changes eye levels well and pitches as well out of the stretch as he does from the windup.
He’s a starting pitcher filling a role.
Quite candidly, he has pitched better than almost anybody on the staff since he was called up.
He’s absolutely is a starting pitcher and if Mitre bombs or Joba can’t hack it as a starter, he would be my first choice to plug into the rotation.
ACE was muy bien!!!
Brandon, there is nothing in Aceves that resembles Julian Tavarez, did you ever see Tavarez pitch when he came into the league or just blowing smoke out of your butt?
Guys…. Mike Francessa is NEVER wrong.
He figured out Joba before anyone else did. He knew his best roll was the pen and stuck with it, and he turned out to be right.
Again, say what you want about Mike, but he is hardly ever wrong and was proven right again about Joba.
It’s remarkable who Posada’s game calling and pitch handling skills improved so radically over the coarse of this game.
Posada’s catcher’s ERA over the first 4 innings was 7.3.
Over the last 5 innings his Posada’s catcher’s ERA was 0.0.
He must have worked very hard with Tony Pena on his catching skills between the 4th and 5th inning.
Wow, what a performance by Aceves – I’m sooooooooo happy for him. He deserved a save an a half for today’s game. He’s so incredibly valuable in this role – he gives the team a chance to win all the time, just amazing. He’s had maybe, what, one bad game all year? He’s just like Ramiro Mendoza. I really don’t want him in the rotation unless it’s just dire straits because the pen will really suffer.
Kudos also to Albie, who I think can still help us this year.
Great win……
Mexican maestro
has a secret PED:
chili verde sauce
Aceves getting stretched out?
Back-to-Back 4 hour games
The team must be exhausted
Brandon,
He’s so much better than Tavares its not funny.
Don’t be blinded by the radar gun. Guys don’t get good swings on him because his command is so good for all of his pitches.
He’s real, real good. Better than folks want to believe because he doesn’t throw 95 MPH.
The guy can flat out pitch and may well end up in the rotation for the second half of the year.
And major props to Po, who I will never, ever understand the disdain for……..Hmm, have we heard about any problems with the SP lately? Maybe it’s a Joba thing and not a Posada thing?
MG this is his first season, you apparently didn’t see Julian Tavarez in his hey day. He is excelling b/ of where he is in his role. Aceves is better for the LR role, can he be a 5 SP no one is saying he can’t but yes it is ridiculous to say he can win 15 – 20 games a season, no that is not realistic.
SJ, if Aceves is in the rotation, the pen will just be a horror show…..
CB
Posada admitted himself that he wasn’t doing a GJ catching CC and AJ. He made his adjustments and hes doing a great job now. Joba just sucks atm.
At this point there’s no reason not to start Aceves Thursday. He’s going to need 2-3 days off anyway and has shown he can be very efficient in terms of pitch counts.
If they go with Mitre chances are Aceves is in there early anyway. A key may be how strong the next two starters are and if they get 14-16 innings out of them then Aceves gets the start. If they have to use the bullpen alot, then they call up Mitre to replace Albie or DFA Tomko.
Still those guys out of the pen were incredible.. 5 1/3 scoreless!
Mike Francesa is “never” wrong?
Ok, whatever you say.
Mike, I was hoping you were on vacation. Instead, you are posting on the LoHud Yankees blog.
Whoda thunk it?
Albie will go back down when Mitre comes up.
“CB at best ACE is Julian Tavarez. He’s not a 15 – 20 GW, he is perfect as the long relief anything goes guy.”
Brandon,
Honestly, you are not even close. Not even in the ball park with Tavarez.
I’m not going to project how many wins he would get but Aceves can flat out pitch. He’s a more complete pitcher than Mendoza ever was (mendoza was really reliant on one pitch – the sinker). And to bring up Tavarez is absurd.
You are seriously selling Aceves short. Way short. You are underestimating what the value of throwing 4 pitches and knowing how to pitch are.
And i think you’re doing that because Aceves is a very unusual pitcher. There are very few pitchers who can do what he can.
Yankee Trader
July 5th, 2009 at 4:55 pm
GB7-
Scott Downs was on the DL for a toe injury but was eligible to come off last Thursday. Don’t know why he’s not activated.
Aceves gets my vote for the belt and the pie!
Remember Soupy Sales? Still alive? if so maybe he should be a guest pieman!!!!
————————————————————
Thanks for the info on Downs, Trader. He’s a tough pitcher to deal with. He’d look great pitching the 8th inning in pinstripes.
If Aceves pitches like this for the rest of the year, he’s going to be in major demand this trade deadline and this winter. Cashman needs to tell them, “Don’t bother sending us your poor, your huddled messes, yearning to be free. Just send your farm system.”
Loved Soupy Sales: Pookie, Black Fang…..ahhhhh….quality tv.
it’s such a shame Wang got hurt. This bullpen has really come together. Just when things fit into place, something always pops up. That’s baseball for ya. Can never have enough depth.
Hopefully Joba can get it together.
vb03
July 5th, 2009 at 5:00 pm
Ace is extremely valuable where he is. He took over a game that the Yankees could have easily lost and shut down a lineup that had scored 8 runs off Joba.
There’s no reason to mess with the bullpen right now, especially with Wang having the All Star Break to recuperate.
You toss a 5th starter out there during Wang’s turn and have Aceves ready to relieve if necessary.
———————————–
I agree bullpen has been great the yanks would be foolish to mess with it. Aceves is perfect in the role he is in. Wang wasn’t even giving you that much all you need is a starter that can give you 5 quality innings and then you could use Aceves to get you to the 8th.
Aceves would do well in the rotation. Do you guys forget that he was 3-1 last year, in 5 starts?
Also, if traded for bullpen help, wouldnt it help our rotation too? Add someone to the pen, put hughes or ace in the rotation..idk maybe im just riffin
Exactly… Mitre will get his shot, then if he bombs, Aceves is plan B.
Unless you’d rather see Igawa, Josh Towers, etc.
Brandon hates on Ace
like Julian Tavarez?
that is a low blow
“The bullpen will be a horror show without Aceves”?
What lunacy!
The bullpen has been superb for quite some time. It’s just worn out from poor starts three of the last four games.
48-33 midway through the season is pretty darn good. A winning road trip would set them up very well for the second half of the season.
Go out and sign every player from the Mexican League.
Brandon, I lived in San Francisco in the 90’s when Tavarez was with the Giants-good fastball, no control. He improved later in his career but never had good control and has average about 4 walks per 9 innings in his career with a career ERA of 4.44. Aceves walks less than 3 per 9 innings and has a career ERA of 2.32. What similarities are there in those statistics?
Brandon,
One other thing on Aceves – how many hard hit balls can you remember people getting off of him?
Forget limiting it to base hits, HR, etc.
Just make it real simple – how many hard hit balls?
Very few. Very, very few.
And that’s because hitters don’t square him up well. They just don’t.
CB, if Aceves goes in the rotation, then Phil can’t be the 8th inning guy – he will need to replace Aceves and give innings. That’s still a waste of his talent because Ace has been in many tie games or games where the Yanks are losing……The pen will suffer greatly without him.
GB7-
“Your huddled “messes” yearning to be free.” LMAO
Soupy Sales got in trouble for telling kids to take the green paper [money] off their father’s dressers and mail it to him!
Yeah… I’m sure Francessa knew that Joba would try and pitch like Jaime Moyer as a starter….
Face it, nobody saw this coming from Joba. Not after last year.
Kay is a moron Joba topped out at 96 today not 93. Joba problem is not velocity today.
Joba and Wang sure are making arbitration easy.
CB,
Have you heard anything about the Cuban pitcher Chapman since Thursday? It’s like he dropped off the Earth since I read he was supposed to be flying to Miami.
If Mitre bombs, where do we go?
Wang is not going to be out for the year, so it’s not like Cashman can go out and get a Jarrod Washburn or someone to plug in. We need a capable starter to fill in for a few weeks.
We have no choice but to go to Aceves if Mitre doesn’t do well.
“The pen will suffer greatly without him.”
It will. And there’s nothing you can do about it.
There’s only so many pitchers an organization has. You lose Wang and it’s going to hurt a lot.
So the question isn’t will it hurt the pen – it will.
The question is what, on balance, is the best thing for the team.
You can’t compete in the AL East without superior starting pitcher. Just because someone like Mitre might be mediocre enough to be a typical 5th starter doesn’t mean that’s the best way to use your assets.
They have two guys in the pen who are truly starters and much better – not a little better – much better than anyone they have who could start.
Albie threw a scoreless inning today. Who knew? It’s just much easier to fill in the pen than it is the rotation.
It looked today to me that Girardi was pushing the envelope to stretch out Aceves for down the line.
Checking into Chapman’s real age-rumor floated out there that he was older than 21.
Also as a ?FA, probably not available until next season.
Who does Brandon want in the rotation?
(sorry, didn’t read through the thread)
Betsy, for well over 100 years baseball has had a saying (which Joe Torrre used all the time) that ‘momentum is only as good as your starting pitcher tomorrow’. Why the willingness to not want a pitcher in the rotation because he’s ‘too valuable’ as a long reliever? Long relievers only pitch when the starter gets knocked out early, don’t they?
I think Tomko and Taverez is a better comparison.
Both have career ERAs in the mid 4s, alternating between starting and relief, never really stuck anywhere and bounced around. Both have good stuff but never harnessed it and are seen as headcases. Both also had some isolated seasons of success mostly mixed in with mediocrity.
YES post-game Booth Report with Nancy Newman, Michael Kay, and David Cone:
http://www.zshare.net/audio/62275688f0d25a66/
Betsy,
Also, if Aceves goes to the rotation that’s not going to affect Phil’s role.
They want him in the pen to pitch high leverage innings.
The downside to high leveage innings however is that it will tend to limit him to 1 inning at a time which will limit the number of innings he gets this season.
mark,
Last thing I read was that there were issues to be worked out with his papers. He has no passport right now as the cuban team took it when they went to the netherlands.
If you had Aceves in the rotation, more likely than not, you’d have lost this game started by Joba, not to mention killed your bullpen in the process, affecting a number of games in the future.
If anyone in your rotation doesn’t have it on any given day, its a tremendous weapon to have a guy ready in the pen that can keep you in the game and save your bullpen for future outings.
I saw Aceves throw in Anaheim last September when he was called up, and was outstanding…Kept hitters off balance and guessing all night…..Changes speeds and locations and you never get the same look twice on the same pitches…..Someone earlier ( and I apologize ) made a real good comparison to Ed Figerero from the 76-78 teams who was a 20 game winner twice I believe….That’s who I think of as I watched him today……What he did today was outstanding for the club of course, but for himself as well…..Stepping up big time…..
Thanks, I have been looking for something about him. I know he wouldn’t be with the team this year anyway, but it would be nice to get that kind of arm in the organization at any time.
NITRO
July 5th, 2009 at 5:04 pm
Back-to-Back 4 hour games
The team must be exhausted
——————
For sure. Hopefully a nice quick 2 hour game tomorrow afternoon.
I wasn’t trying to short change Ace comparing him to Tavarez, I checked Ace’s ERA and whip it’s very very impressive w/ that said I don’t see 15 game winner from him, he’s more from 8-12 wins type guy. With that said he is very impressive.
P.S. GI Joe sounds like he’s going to grab Jobber by the ear later.
vb, you make a good point but when would Aceves next be available after pitching today? No earlier than Wednesday so the next 2 games don’t have that weapon. Middle and long relievers pitch 70-100 innings a year, count me among those who want their best pitchers going 150-225 per year.
The Yankees are officially in a race for thepost-season. Inning counts do not matter, they’ll be whatever they turn out to be.
I would definitely start Aveces Thursday and then use the All-Star break to make longer term plans. Albie can stay up or they can increase efforts to add a veteran for the pen, but I like Aceves a lot more than Mitre.
Safe to assume Alex at 3B tomorrow with Cervelli catching? Another slop throwing lefty means another day as a tourist for Mr. Hinske.
Only 3 all-stars? what the heck?
How does Boston get 6 and we only get 3?
How does Tim Wakefield and his 4.30 ERA get in over CC, AJ, or Joba?
Pat, is was me who made that comparison and they not only pitch very much alike but also have similar deliveries…
Girardi’s YES post-game reaction:
http://www.zshare.net/audio/62275914bde83f67/
JOBA SAYS THE SAME CRAP!!!! Joba had the balls to say the he pitched great!
First thing out of Joba’s mouth today… “I think I did a pretty good job”..
What a complete joke.
Ahahahaha. Joba says he did a great job, and that the Blue Jays just have great hitters. What a joke this guy is.
Their deliveries are similar, but if Tavarez could throw strikes and change speeds like Aveces he’s be a 20-game winner.
Of course so too would be Joba Chamberlain!
Whoever starts Thursday will be going up against Francisco Liriaino
This is getting me mad. Joba is clearly in denial.
LOL has Joba been taking PR tips from Kennedy?
You’ve got to be kidding me with that garbage.
Are you serious, Joba?
“Not much I could do?” Really? Holy crap.
Joba’s (unbelievably delusional) YES post-game reaction:
http://www.zshare.net/audio/622760389a2217a1/
“I think I did a good job today” – Joba
LOL
Not to many players have aligator skin. Joba was clearly bothered by the boos. who wouldnt be?
CB, I can’t disagree……and also, if the starter who isn’t Aceves bombs, then what does it matter if Aceves shuts the door on the other team when the cat is already out of the bag and the game is lost? The Yankees will have to patch things together if they choose to go this route. They need to acquire an arm for the pen regardless- they can’t wait until Wang is well into his rehab, the deadline will have passed.
The point about Phil is my major concern for him – he needs innings. Do you really think he’s working on his change and cutter in pen sessions? Even so, it would be better for him to face MLB hitters and doing so… Oy vey……
Is it me or was Joba very defensive? Not a good sign
**MG, good points
Well, I have to hope Joba puts on his “bravado” face for the media, because otherwise, Girardi adn the coaching staff have their hands full.
David Cone –
“Aceves is the most unpredictable pitcher on the yankees staff.”
And this is coming from Cone – one of the most unpredicatable pitchers of the last 20 years.
Someone has to talk to that kid before his interviews misrepresents him. He’s clearly trying to stay positive ala Derek Jeter, but don’t say it like that kid.
I wish the 8 runs were all earned. then he could stare at a fat 5 era.
This is what happens when you turn a 21 yr old kid (when he was called up) into a rock star without ever accomplishing anything. The fame gets to his head.
Joba’s postgames are classic.
Is this really the way he is or is he just acting?
I hope he really doesn’t believe that he pitched well.
wow im kinda speechless after watching his post game…somehow i think hes gonna be singing a different tune soon…somebody is gonna have to have a serious talking with him
Thanks pel
Good for Joba he cant get down on himself. Burnett had the same message after the boston start and he turned it around. Joba will be fine he is still a young inexperienced pitcher, he will have his struggles people will expect him to become an ace overnight that is not going to happen.
a pretty good job?
Ian Kennedy award
knucklehead supreme
Did Joba really say that he didn’t care if the fans booed because he was going to wake up as a member of the Yankees anyway? He thought he did a good job? Oh my…..where to start.
Just horrible. First off, if you don’t think anything is wrong, then you won’t feel the need to change. WTF kind of sense of entitlement is that? That’s all that matters ? He was booed because he was pitching lousy – and he nearly took the team out of the game. Sure, his teammates will be glad to hear that.
Atleast Ian Kennedy is a 2nd tier prospect who has no experience with the NY media when he made his comments.
Joba has been around long enough to know that you must be accountable and construe your words better.
I think too much praise was heaped on Joba before he really accomplished alot. He still has a lot of growing up to do.
That was an Ian Kennedy interview if I ever saw one.
GI Joe, Jason Zillo grab that kid NOW…I mean NOW !
I did enjoy hearing Joba to tell the fans to shove it, though not in those exact words. As to whether the booing bothered him, he said it didn’t. (who knows if that’s true). But when he asked why it didn’t (brilliant question as usual by Kim Jones, ugh) he said that when the sun came up tomorrow he would still have a job and that he went out there and gave it his best and if that was not enough he didn’t know what was.
That’s pretty much sums up the way I see it too. If you’re out there doing your best you really shouldn’t get booed.
With Wang out, that puts even more responsibility on Joba… yikes.
And Andy is now our #3 starter?
I don’t think people realized how important a healthy Wang was.
Joba – go far, far away. I’m tired of this kid’s act….he thinks he sounds tough, but instead he sounds like a jerk. I really hope someone showed Joe this tape because he needs help.
If Cashman were smart,he would put WANG on the DL like Nady,and out for this season,and get a pitcher from what’s out there.Glavin was let go because of 1 million dollars,he was peeved too.
Bull pen is set,get someone who can get innings in she rotation.
Mo’s YES post-game reaction:
http://www.zshare.net/audio/622762544fc5c925/
If Ransom didn’t make the error, Joba gets out of the inning with the lead and probably settles down and pitches 6 decent innings.
Not his fault that Ransom made him get extra outs. The defense HAS to pick up a young pitcher.
>Thanks pel
You’re welcome.
Just once couldn’t he say, “I stunk, I let my team down and am embaraased by the results.”?????
I know a coach who used to refer to guys like Joba as guys you have to coach with a baseball bat. Meaning you had to beat them over the head to get them to learn anything.
If they don’t create some sort of “no shake off rule” this kid will be an underachiever for the forseeable future.
What’s likeable about Aceves is he’s always around the plate and mixes his pitches well.
He’s valuable in the role he’s in. Leave him and a good thing alone.
The 5th starter will come from AAA.
People worry too much about what gets said in these interviews. It’ll keep some of the board kids off of the streets and out of trouble, clucking their tongues and keeps the media working and giving their wisdom. That should be worth the annoyance by itself. Television and radio needed some real humor, not to mention the printed media. They’re always good for belly laughers on a daily basis.
Glavine is garbage right now. Betsy I’m pissed too but I ain’t telling him to go far away, that post game mind set has to go far away. A guy like AJ Burnett and CC Sabathia and or GI Joe need to grab that kid by the ears and tell him, real soon all this can go.
MG….Good call on Figgy & Aceves….Mirrors of each other….
#1 Fan —If Ransom makes the play Joba just gets smacked around in the fourth. How can you give someone a hall pass after a complete meldown?
#1 Fan
July 5th, 2009 at 5:37 pm
If Ransom didn’t make the error, Joba gets out of the inning with the lead and probably settles down and pitches 6 decent innings.
Not his fault that Ransom made him get extra outs. The defense HAS to pick up a young pitcher.
—————————————
Exactly Bluejays are a good hitting club cant give them extra outs. That was a tailored made doubleplay and Ransom makes an error. LOL @ Cashman saying Ransom is better defensively than A-rod at third. Can we please call up Pena he will atleast give you good defense.
Today explains perfectly why I want Aceves in the starting rotation in Wang’s place. Replacing Aceves in the pen is not as difficult or as costly as trading for a starter to replace Wang. Aceves is an ideal internal solution and exemplifies the importance of pitching depth in the starting rotation.
My desire for the bullpen now is to trade for Heath Bell.
Heath Bell. Heath Bell. Heath Bell.
Kids like IPK and Joba are more interested in the parties after the game than answering questions about baseball.
Joba is one of the most popular players in the clubhouse.
Remember, HE was recruiting CC and AJ here— and both mentioned him at their press conferences. He took CC out to dinner when he was in NY. The guy making 400K in his 2nd yr in the league took a $161 million dollar CY Young pitcher out to dinner. The guy is very tight with the team and players.
Who is going to get in his face? Most of the players probably want him in the pen anyway and are more upset with management than they are with Joba.
Was Joba channeling his inner Ian Kennedy? What the heck was that?
Lol Pel at the Slobba file name
>If Ransom didn’t make the error, Joba gets out of the inning with the lead
>and probably settles down and pitches 6 decent innings.
>
>Not his fault that Ransom made him get extra outs.
>The defense HAS to pick up a young pitcher.
Oh, cut it out, Joba. Now go breathe into your ignition to start your car.
Joba sounds like a hot head brat in his press interview.Somebody(Posada,Joe,Eiland) should put him in his place.He thinks just because they won alls well!
anybody who wants joba off the team is not thinking in the right manner…yea he sucks right now but hes only 23 and hes got a world of talent…hes valuable to this team…maybe not so much this year but definitly in the future
Jumping in and out of thread. What did Joba say? Did he acknowledge that he nearly coughed up the entire lead before “the” error?
As CB/SJ have said, Phil is well-liked too – that didn’t stop Damon from making comments. If Joba doesn’t get the same treatment because he’s a jolly good fellow, that’s a joke.
LOL Tex – he’s not doing the HR Derby because he did it once and he was TERRIBLE. Actually, that’s a good thing – I don’t want his swing messed up. As is, he hasn’t hit HR in a few weeks.
Ace’s YES post-game reaction:
http://www.zshare.net/audio/6227657264d84002/
#1 Fan July 5th, 2009 at 5:37 pm
If Ransom didn’t make the error, Joba gets out of the inning with the lead and probably settles down and pitches 6 decent innings.
Not his fault that Ransom made him get extra outs. The defense HAS to pick up a young pitcher.
==============================
Ransom made the error and it sucked. After that, Dellucci flied out and Joba just needed to get 1 more out and get out of the inning.
He them channeled his inner Britney Spears and had a meltdown. Sorry, I love Jobber but that’s on him.
Baseball fans are a funny bunch. Just the other day, Girardi tried to get an extra inning out of Aceves, but Aceves with a little help from Tex didn’t get the job done. All kinds of fans were beating up Girardi for stretching Aceves out.
Today, Girardi does the same thing and today, Aceves gets it done and all of sudden, fans are heaping praise on Girardi and want Ace in the rotation.
It just goes to show you that when the players execute, a manager’s decisions look good, when they don’t execute then the manager looks bad and certain fans scream for him to be fired. It’s even worse today then years ago because of the internet and blogs such as this one and of course, sports radio.
CC or AJ are the only ones who can tame Joba.
Let them show some leadership and give him a good pep talk. Teaching them how to throw pitches is one thing, teaching them about maturity is another. That’s where the real leaders shine… they put friendships aside and realize when someone needs to be toned down for their own good and make sure they tell them that.
the bottom line for the Yankees is that they 48-33 at the midpoint in the schedule and no one is having a career year, there have been plenty of injuries, and a 2 time 19 game winner has been awful. 2 x 48=96, that puts them in the playoffs and then it’s up to the stars to perform. Can anyone argue with that logic?
Brandon, I really don’t want Joba going far, far away…….but his attitude just annoys the heck out of me.
back from a great vacation but i missed my yankees. topsy turvy game today, Ace is da man!
>Lol Pel at the Slobba file name
His playing turned me off, but I was able to say to myself “chalk it up to immaturity”. But then his post-game interview REALLY turned me off, and I was absolutely certain that maturity is something Joba cannot be taught.
Agreed, RalphieD, except I think he can be valuable this year too. I’m still optimistic about Joba. The postgame comments weren’t the best sign.
There is a difference between being well-liked by your teammates and being very friendly with your teammates. Joba is good friends with all of these guys. He is the first guy on the top step when someone hits a HR or gets out of a jam to congratulate them. You always see him laughing and joking with guys in the dugout. He is the Nick Swisher of pitchers.
I hardly doubt the players, who are his friends, give a damn what he says in a postgame interview.
Who cares what Joba says to the media anyway. Cano yesterday didn’t even talk to the media after he bunted on 3-0. He knows he didn’t pitch he did say that during the interview. Its the same thing people overreacted to Kennedy postgame interview last year. What do people want from Joba to just go on and on about how much he sucked today. Burnett did the same thing Joba is doing after his Boston start.
Do you really think Damon or Jeter will tell Joba to stop throwing 3-2 sliders?
This is something that Eliand and Girardi have to deal with. It is clearly his execution with all the 2 out hits and nibbling.
Mo is so humble.This guy is first class,a living legend,first round Hall of Famer inductee.
If he was cocky on one would think a thing about it,because he earned the right.
Yet Joba needs to learn from Mo’s greatness,while he’s around him!!Joba’s post game interview was rank.
Teixeira’s YES post-game reaction:
http://www.zshare.net/audio/62276880b168f23f/
This was the Yankees’ 81st game of the season; their 124 home runs are their second-most all-time at the halfway point (127 in 2002).
The old stadium was a band box!
You guys are reading wayy to much into postgame interviews.
Not every player beats themselves up after every loss. Some players take the delusional tactic. It doesn’t make him a bad guy just because he doesn’t say what you want him to.
And nobody on the team is going to call him out on it because it doesn’t warrant it. There are far more things they need to try and fix (mechanics, velocity, control etc.) than his postgame comments.
I would send Joba down to Scranton, and let him work his stuff out until rosters expand. Aceves can slot in as a starter for now, or they can make a trade. Joba looks like he needs more seasoning.
Betsy,
What Damon did, I didn’t like because he should have made his comments directly to Hughes instead of the media.
As far as Joba, I think Pettitte, CC, AJ or Rivera needs to talk to him offline about his comments after a rough game because the perception of him being defensive and being a jerk is starting to take hold with his fanbase.
Again, I think too much praise was given to Joba before he did anything really significant like what Mo and Jeter did in 1996 or Lincicum winning a Cy Young last season and being lights out again this season. Joba’s a good young pitcher, but he’s not a star pitcher like Lincicum, who was taken in the same draft as Joba. Those type of young, star pitchers are few and far between so Joba is taking the normal route, most young pitchers take in trying to establish himself as a ML starting pitcher. IMO, Joba needs to show a little more humility and just admit he has a lot of work to do in order to get better at his job.
Yeah… because Joba’s cockiness/delusion is the reason he is throwing in the low 90s with bad control, nibbling, and giving up 2 strike hits….
It’s not like this same attitude is what got him on the map and made him such a dominating starter last year or anything….
Bad outings and bad games are all part of the profession, however accountability is part of the game ( as well as life ) too……
the postgame comments
symptom or mindless blather?
only Joba knows
Sending Joba to Scranton is a cosmetic move that will accomplish nothing. With Wang out, it actually makes no sense.
All those 3-2 sliders that he throws will be strikeouts in the minors rather than walks up here.
Big question….who DH’s and who sits during the Twins series. My choice would be DHing Rodriguez on Thursday and Matsui on Tuesday. Wednesday is the tossup. Not crazy with any of the three between Rodriguez, Posada and Matsui playing 3 straight on that concrete.
Not worrying about the replacement starter until Thursday.
Cash, I agree on all points, although it’s obvious that Joba will get a pass from some people no matter what (that’s the impression I get from going on various boards). He didn’t pitch well – I don’t expect him to beat himself up about it, but take a gander at what AJ, CC, Andy say and go from there. They don’t make excuses – they deal in reality. That’s what Joba has to do……and that crack about him not caring about the booing because he’s going to wake up still on the team is ridiculous.
Earl July 5th, 2009 at 5:57 pm
Do you really think Damon or Jeter will tell Joba to stop throwing 3-2 sliders?
This is something that Eliand and Girardi have to deal with. It is clearly his execution with all the 2 out hits and nibbling.
———–
No, Joba has to learn the hard way on his own. That’s why it’s not easy to develop young pitching.
Maturity is a big part of it. How long did it take Burnett to mature? Let’s just hope it doesn’t take Joba that long.
The media went to town with this kid in 2007 and they made him out to be Superman.
It’s not that easy to pitch in the bigs. It’s why everyone struggles to take their game to the next level at such a young age. We’re seeing the same thing from David Price right now.
Girardi was right in the postsgame when said that the expectations for him were way too high and people get mad when he’s not blowing people away every time he takes the ball.
Nobody can live up to those unrealistic expectations.
Hughes has had to endure a lot of ups and downs and he’s a better pitcher now for it. How many people were calling him a bust last season and again after his start in Baltimore this year?
Joba will be fine but it’s going to take time for him to start getting it. Joba is no different than any other young pitcher in that regard.
Aceves was great. Challenges hitters, not afraid to throw strikes. Hope Joba was watching. And Joba’s post game comments sounded like he was in lala land. He threw too many pitches, didn’t pitch well and couldn’t pick up Ransom after his error.
Why is joba throwing 91 instead of 94 thats the question.
Ricky Ricardo……oops, Romero, is going to be tough tomorrow……I would kill for a sweep, though.
Fan Interference July 5th, 2009 at 6:01 pm
I would send Joba down to Scranton, and let him work his stuff out until rosters expand. Aceves can slot in as a starter for now, or they can make a trade. Joba looks like he needs more seasoning.
———–
Yeah, that makes all kinds of sense.
The team is already three starters short (Wang, Hughes, and Kennedy) and you want to take some journeyman scrub to take Joba’s place and get blasted in the bigs.
So they’ll have two AAAA pitchers in their rotation instead of one.
A fine idea.
“How long did it take Burnett to mature?”
Tell me when he gets there.
Betsy/Rocketbooster,
In all honesty, those fans giving Joba a pass aren’t that much different than you are with Phil. He’s their guy as Phil is yours.
Teixeria had the perfect response when he got booed–
“They have every right to boo… I’m booing myself, I stunk today.”
Counts
July 5th, 2009 at 6:01 pm
You guys are reading wayy to much into postgame interviews.
Not every player beats themselves up after every loss. Some players take the delusional tactic. It doesn’t make him a bad guy just because he doesn’t say what you want him to.
And nobody on the team is going to call him out on it because it doesn’t warrant it. There are far more things they need to try and fix (mechanics, velocity, control etc.) than his postgame comments.
——————————————
Exactly its not like Joba was ripping Cody Ransom and throwing people under the bus. Then his teammates would get upset about his postgame interviews. Joba really doesn’t say anything during his interviews. People are not happy because he did not pitch well today, if he pitches well no one will care about his postgame comments. I guess when he struggles they want him to change his attitude. When he pitched 8 innings against Cleveland after the game you didn’t hear people talk about his attitude and needed to mature.
Betsy July 5th, 2009 at 6:09 pm
That’s what Joba has to do……and that crack about him not caring about the booing because he’s going to wake up still on the team is ridiculous.
————-
He shouldn’t care about the boos. Not at all.
These are the same Neanderthals who have booed Mo and Teixeira several times this season already and continue to boo A-Rod for simply showing up to work.
Those over the age of 18 who come to a game and boo are idiots. There’s no excuse for it whatsoever.
CC and AJ need to be the ones to give Joba the pep talk.
I don’t know if Rivera, Jeter, Posada, Pettitte will register with him. Sometimes your close friends are the only ones who can get through to you.
“In all honesty, those fans giving Joba a pass aren’t that much different than you are with Phil. He’s their guy as Phil is yours.”
Bingo.
Well, there’s no question that the media took this kid and turned him into phenomenon……it almost set him up for a fall. That said, I won’t give Joba a pass because he’s young; not every youngster is stubborn to the point of being obstinate. Phil isn’t, for one – I don’t believe he’s ever had such issues with catchers like Joba has. He’s also always been accountable for his performances. I only used Phil as an example because he’s the most obvious one and I can’t speak for youngsters on other teams. Jeter, Mo, Andy – they were fine as babies growing up on the job in the majors.
Neil Medchill continues to hit the pitchers hard for Staten Island. Now hitting .340 with his 3rd homer (8 RBI) in 46 at bats. He was an 11th round pick this year (3rd time picked in the Rule $ draft. A big kid at 6′4″ and 215-220 pound outfielder.
“vb, you make a good point but when would Aceves next be available after pitching today? No earlier than Wednesday so the next 2 games don’t have that weapon. Middle and long relievers pitch 70-100 innings a year, count me among those who want their best pitchers going 150-225 per year.”
MG, I’m not a fan of weakening the bullpen unnecessarily.
Today is a freak occurrence, Ace usually goes 2-3 innings max in his relief stints. He can also go one high leverage inning and do so effectively.
With Ace in the pen you have Hughes and Ace who are both reliable bridges to Mo, both of which can pitch multiple innings at a time.
That’s a great luxury to have.
Bring up Mitre, put him on a short leash and have Ace and/or Hughes ready to pitch.
“In all honesty, those fans giving Joba a pass aren’t that much different than you are with Phil. He’s their guy as Phil is yours.”
Yep… and it appears that the Hughes fans seem to be the biggest Joba detractors….
“It’s not that easy to pitch in the bigs. It’s why everyone struggles to take their game to the next level at such a young age. We’re seeing the same thing from David Price right now.”
Same thing? Price was pitching that way in the minors this season too. He was averaging 4 innings/100 pitches a start down there.
Nick in SF
“Tell me when he gets there”
What an effervescent wit you have. What a bon mot, worthy of Oscar Wilde. Your talent devseves a greater forum.
So if Joba says he stunk today, it will help him throw mid-high 90s with control in his next start?
GF, I do think it’s a good thing that Joba doesn’t care about the boos (no player should take those idiots to heart), but it’s the comment about waking up on the team that bothers me. However, I’m not going to spend all day thinking about it; I’m more concerned about his performance.
Cash (by the way, who is your altar ego,lol)……I don’t give Phil a pass. If you recall, I was actually a bit miffed at him when he made the comment after the Sox game (the one in NYS, where there was a rain delay) that he didn’t get calls from umps. It sounded initially to me like he was complaining – and that surprised me because that’s not like Phil. Hey, everyone has their favorites, but I don’t post in the Joba thread (or hardly ever) because really – everyone honestly gets very sensitive about any criticism. You know as well as I do that they are blaming the Yankees for Joba’s problems -Joba never takes responsibility. I’m not asking for Joba’s head on the block, but he’s not pitching well – that’s on him, the way Phil’s poor performances are on him, the way AJ or CC’’s poor performances are on him.
David Price and Joba are the poster children for the difficulty of developing young starting pitching.
Tim Lincecum is the aberration and he’s a talent that comes once every 10 years.
The Yanks should’ve gone with my idea of sending Joba to Scranton and let Hughes continue as a starter. So that when a starter goes down again. He would come up and do his thing. He could have worked on throwing more strikes down there. But everyone was against me.
Betsy July 5th, 2009 at 6:17 pm
Well, there’s no question that the media took this kid and turned him into phenomenon……it almost set him up for a fall. That said, I won’t give Joba a pass because he’s young; not every youngster is stubborn to the point of being obstinate. Phil isn’t, for one – I don’t believe he’s ever had such issues with catchers like Joba has. He’s also always been accountable for his performances. I only used Phil as an example because he’s the most obvious one and I can’t speak for youngsters on other teams. Jeter, Mo, Andy – they were fine as babies growing up on the job in the majors.
————-
Betsy,
Every youngster is stubborn. They all need to mature. It’s all part of the developmental process.
Were you a stubborn kid at the age of 23? Were you pretty much set in your ways and few people could tell you different?
I can tell you that I certainly was that way and I know I’m not alone.
It’s no different for a young major league pitcher.
Everyone needs a kick in the ass once in awhile.
Nick in SF, are you saying that because AJ throws pies at the end of walk-off wins he’s not mature? LOL I love that – I do think he’s mature (but that pie thing is a silly, fun part of his personality). I see it in the post-game reports and that’s what David Cone, Kay, Kim Jones, etc……report. It’s noticed by the media – our AJ has grown up at 32 years old. I’m so proud of him, lol.
igotid88 July 5th, 2009 at 6:24 pm
The Yanks should’ve gone with my idea of sending Joba to Scranton and let Hughes continue as a starter. So that when a starter goes down again. He would come up and do his thing. He could have worked on throwing more strikes down there. But everyone was against me.
—————————————
Joba has nothing left to prove in AAA. He’d do his usual nibbling down there and actually succeed, which would reinforce his bad habits.
For better or worse, he will be learning on the job at the ML level.
“Tim Lincecum is the aberration and he’s a talent that comes once every 10 years.”
not taking anything away from timmy but i bet he would of had some more struggles if he began his career in the al east ala joba and price…but no doubt he is the exception not the rule
E-gawa July 5th, 2009 at 6:20 pm
Same thing? Price was pitching that way in the minors this season too. He was averaging 4 innings/100 pitches a start down there.
————-
Exactly. And he’s brought that with him to the bigs. Some people think he’s Superman too based on his performance last season.
In so many ways, Joba and David Price are very very similar in their developmental process and both are going to struggle before they take their game to the next level.
Aceves challenges hitters and is not afraid to throw strikes. Hopefully Joba was watching and learning. He needs to improve. And his comments after the game regarding his performance did not make sense. He didn’t pitch well and couldn’t pick up Ransom after his error.
igotid88, when you own the Yankees it will be your right to do whatever you want but that would be the worst move of all time.
GF, I’m still stubborn now, lol. I didn’t mean to make it sound like Joba should act at 23 like a 45 year old. If he needs a kick in the pants, so be it – AJ still needed one as of a couple of years ago, I need one (not that our situations are at all the same). I like Joba, I think he’s a good kid at heart (there’s no question about that)…….We’re all rooting for him.
From Tyler Kpener in NYT:
In Chamberlain’s last six starts, he is 1-1 with a 3.06 earned run average. But he has tossed 31 1/3 innings in that span, meaning he is constantly leaving a lot of work for the bullpen.
Obviously someone needs to lit up fire under Joba’s belly.
Sorry my guys couldn’t get the sweep ~ but 2 outta 3 ain’t bad.
Ironic that Brandon (still in ST mode) Morrow finally has a decent outing and leaves with the lead and the thus far stellar pen blows it for him. But, that he only allowed 2 walks and that his last pitch was the third out in the sixth (and was 98mph) are all VERY good signs.
I can’t imagine many, if any, would have picked the M’s to go 5-4 on the road vs. the 3 best teams in baseball – so overall, I’m pleased.
“See you” in mid-August when the Yanks come to the Emerald City for four games at The Safe.
oh, and by the way…
please, oh please, beat up on the Halos!!!!
Thanks,
~Rosy
Jam on…Interesting insight that you make……I suppose there is a small element that would or could be part of that menatilty that you suggest…I think it be a very small segemnt of true Yankee fans…..I have always been outspoken about the fact that I believe Phil Hughes will be the better pitcher and have the better career…..I make no bones about this…….
Before you can correct anything Joba,you gotta admit somethings wrong.
How is ACE possibly starting Thurs,and today is Sunday,JOE?
I’m mean to say it should’ve been an option. And more to wake him up. Saying you could easily lose this spot. Because we have another young starter in Hughes here.
I’m meant to say it should’ve been an option. And more to wake him up. Saying you could easily lose this spot. Because we have another young starter in Hughes here.
Hughes starts this year
start 1- 6 ip
start 2- 4 ip
start 3- 1.2ip
start 4- 5 ip
start 5- 5 ip
start 6- 8 ip
start 7- 5 ip
Now that Hughes is doing a great job in bullpen people are making him out to be Roger Clemens. Joba already showed he can be dominant from the pen. Hughes starting is no different than Joba they are both young pitchers who are inconsistent. People expect them to become aces overnight are not being realistic. The yankees did not pay Joba 161 million or 82 million.
Pete’s take on Joba, last week was on target.
ANYONE care to disagree now ?
Vrsce: thank you. But I won’t ever forget where I got my start.
Betsy: I wasn’t think about the pies, but I don’t know if AJ has quite gotten to the point of being our poster boy for mound maturity. I was really just making a joke. But using AJ was probably a better example than I thought given where he started and (hopefully) where he’ll end up.
It’s a process.
So we are 48-33 right now. Nice
Just gotta keep on winning series.
Let’s see if they can sweep the Blue Jays tomorrow afternoon
For tomorrow, Toronto’s bullpen is still shot.
They used again today almost all thier bullpen.
Courtesy to Alby and Ace, Yanks were luchy and five of the bullpen arms were not used. So, tomorrow great advantage for the Yanks. Hopefully, offense strikes first and Pettitte goes at least 7 innings.
MG
July 5th, 2009 at 6:28 pm
igotid88, when you own the Yankees it will be your right to do whatever you want but that would be the worst move of all time.
_————————-
I don’t think it will be the worst move of all time. I’m still a supporter of Joba and want him to be a starter. And I was one of the few at the time that said Hughes had nothing to learn at Triple A. But Joba is not mentally there. If Hughes would have struggled Joba would easily come back up.
“Exactly. And he’s brought that with him to the bigs. Some people think he’s Superman too based on his performance last season.
In so many ways, Joba and David Price are very very similar in their developmental process and both are going to struggle before they take their game to the next level.”
And in many ways they’re not. This is Price’s first stint in the the bigs. Price has not experienced a velocity drop on any of his pitches. Price has only had 1 quality start in the majors. Price has only been in the majors for 50 innings.. Joba has been here for over 200 innings.
Also.. Joba was not averaging 4innings/100 pitches a start when he was in the minors as a starter.
Nick, good point, lol – I guess maybe Andy or Mo would be good examples. Yep, I used AJ because sometimes it just takes people longer to mature. Well, AJ’s taken quite a bit longer, but so be it – as he said, he was surrounded by other young pitchers and didn’t have a guiding force for a long time. Joba’s got Andy, CC, AJ,Mo, etc………..so he should be ok.
Good joke, by the way and also……are you Cashman? The use of the word “process” is a dead giveaway.
Did you notice the fans didn’t vote CC(the CY Young winner) to the ALL Star game,nor AROD? I wonder why,hmmmm!
Wakefield got in over CC bwaaaah.
vinny-b July 5th, 2009 at 6:33 pm
Pete’s take on Joba, last week was on target.
ANYONE care to disagree now ?
—————-
A lot of people, including th media, said the same thing about Hughes last year and threw around the bust label quite a bit.
Michael Kay is at the top of that list. He didn’t like Hughes at all and didn’t expect much out of him and thought Joba was going to be the next Roger Clemens.
But this year he’s done a complete reversal.
Those who jump off the Joba bandwagon now will be scratching and clawing to get back on when he starts to figure things out.
Today ACE went four innings. So, the blessing in disguise of Joba’s poor performance is that ACE is strechted today.
If he is not used in the next four games, I see ACE starting the game on Thursday.
Then the ASB and they will know better on the time table for Wang and make the final decisions.
finfonsfosnf
July 5th, 2009 at 6:33 pm
Hughes starts this year
start 1- 6 ip
start 2- 4 ip
start 3- 1.2ip
start 4- 5 ip
start 5- 5 ip
start 6- 8 ip
start 7- 5 ip
Now that Hughes is doing a great job in bullpen people are making him out to be Roger Clemens. Joba already showed he can be dominant from the pen. Hughes starting is no different than Joba they are both young pitchers who are inconsistent. People expect them to become aces overnight are not being realistic. The yankees did not pay Joba 161 million or 82 million.
—————————————————-
you could add an inning or 2 to some of those games. the first game he was taken out when the yanks scored a 10 spot in the 6th. The Texas game he could have had a complete game shutout. And his last start against Baltimore he had another inning in him. But Joe took him out with the lead. And that start against Boston. He was being squeezed by the ump.
“Did you notice the fans didn’t vote CC(the CY Young winner) to the ALL Star game,nor AROD? I wonder why,hmmmm!
Wakefield got in over CC bwaaaah.”
Fans do not vote for pitchers.
They vote only for position players.
Hughes was improving each and every start after the Baltimore debacle….Can’t really say the same for Joba and that’s what is frustrating …..He’s actually regressing…Make no mistake, today was one of his most important starts ever, and it turned out to be his worse in his very young career…..The concern is the pattern that has taken place and it’s not something that can be changed overnight as it appears……Some type of intervention is needed…Maybe skip a start…Clearly he’s going in the wrong direction…..Maybe all the off the field distractions are taking an effect
Michael Kay is at the top of that list. He didn’t like Hughes at all and didn’t expect much out of him and thought Joba was going to be the next Roger Clemens.
But this year he’s done a complete reversal.
================================
That is so true. Kay use to talk about Jobber like he was the second coming of a baseball pitching god and Youuse was really nothing.
Now he’s been slobbering over Youuse and is “meh” with regards to Jobber
flipping and flopping away that MK
Can’t we just love em both and have patience
E-gawa July 5th, 2009 at 6:37 pm
And in many ways they’re not. This is Price’s first stint in the the bigs. Price has not experienced a velocity drop on any of his pitches. Price has only had 1 quality start in the majors. Price has only been in the majors for 50 innings.. Joba has been here for over 200 innings.
————-
This is still Joba’s first full season as a starter. So we’re not talking about that much more experience.
Secondly, starting is much different than pitching out of the pen. Price is learning that too.
Thirdly, Joba had to deal with the shoulder issue last season – twice. Maybe he still isn’t fully recovered from that?
But it’s not like we haven’t seen his velocity way up all season. He was the old Joba in Cleveland and throwing 97-98 in the 7th and 8th innings.
He’s still having issues repeating his delivery and his mechanics are out of whack. He also needs to strengthen his legs over the offseason.
He’ll figure it out sooner or later. And watch out American League when he does.
haiku-man
July 5th, 2009 at 6:40 pm
Did you notice the fans didn’t vote CC(the CY Young winner) to the ALL Star game,nor AROD? I wonder why,hmmmm!
Wakefield got in over CC bwaaaah
———-
Fans don’t vote for pitchers. And as for ALex he missed a month. And Longoria has been doing well. Jeter is lucky there isn’t a shortstop to compete.
igotid88
July 5th, 2009 at 6:42 pm
finfonsfosnf
July 5th, 2009 at 6:33 pm
Hughes starts this year
start 1- 6 ip
start 2- 4 ip
start 3- 1.2ip
start 4- 5 ip
start 5- 5 ip
start 6- 8 ip
start 7- 5 ip
Now that Hughes is doing a great job in bullpen people are making him out to be Roger Clemens. Joba already showed he can be dominant from the pen. Hughes starting is no different than Joba they are both young pitchers who are inconsistent. People expect them to become aces overnight are not being realistic. The yankees did not pay Joba 161 million or 82 million.
—————————————————-
you could add an inning or 2 to some of those games. the first game he was taken out when the yanks scored a 10 spot in the 6th. The Texas game he could have had a complete game shutout. And his last start against Baltimore he had another inning in him. But Joe took him out with the lead. And that start against Boston. He was being squeezed by the ump.
————————————————
Thats true but you could do the same thing with some of Joba starts. Girardi didn’t let Joba finish the inning against the red sox went he got on the roll struckout 12. Joba pitched 7 innings against detroit only giving up 1 run and was taken out after 88 pitches.
This comparision between Hughes and Joba is meaningless.
Each is an independent case.
Hughes had injuries and he finally recovered and doing well. He was expected to be better than Joba (drafted higher as well)and probably will be.
Joba, on the other hand had instant success in the BP. Now he is facing some adversity and he has to learn from it and do better. So, he has not shown that which is troubling. In fact, his post game comments today tell that he is not only learning and does not think that is the case.
The Joe Girardi Show (07/05/09):
http://www.zshare.net/audio/62277969df5169da/
4MB (00:21:15)
After the Yankees implored fans to vote for first baseman Mark Teixeira and even set up laptops at Yankee Stadium to make it easier for them to vote, Teixeira edged Kevin Youkilis for the starting spot.
…
When the Yankees announced their three All-Stars at Sunday’s game, they thanked the fans for their support in helping Teixeira win the starting spot.
http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/.....all-stars/
S.A.–The sun will come out tomorrow; I’m down with the OPPC
July 5th, 2009 at 6:45 pm
Michael Kay is at the top of that list. He didn’t like Hughes at all and didn’t expect much out of him and thought Joba was going to be the next Roger Clemens.
But this year he’s done a complete reversal.
================================
That is so true. Kay use to talk about Jobber like he was the second coming of a baseball pitching god and Youuse was really nothing.
Now he’s been slobbering over Youuse and is “meh” with regards to Jobber
flipping and flopping away that MK
Can’t we just love em both and have patience
——————————————–
Yep Kay is a moron did he forget all things he said about Hughes last year. Now he is trying to come up with lame nicknames like Philthys for Hughes and Coke.
“Neil Medchill continues to hit the pitchers hard for Staten Island. Now hitting .340 with his 3rd homer (8 RBI) in 46 at bats. He was an 11th round pick this year (3rd time picked in the Rule $ draft. A big kid at 6?4? and 215-220 pound outfielder.”
I’m not a fan of BA sometimes, but they really like him as a hitter and think he can stay as an outfielder. He could be a sleeper and really move up fast through the system if he continues to perform well.
BBFan July 5th, 2009 at 6:48 pm
This comparision between Hughes and Joba is meaningless.
Each is an independent case.
Hughes had injuries and he finally recovered and doing well. He was expected to be better than Joba (drafted higher as well)and probably will be.
———-
Joba has way more upside than Hughes.
It’s not a knock against Hughes, but Joba’s ceiling is just higher and will be a better pitcher as long as he stays healthy.
Joba throws harder and he has four pitches. Right now, Hughes has just two. He’s tried to develop his change up but it hasn’t really gone anywhere the last year.
He’s not throwing it at all now that he’s in the pen.
Thats true but you could do the same thing with some of Joba starts. Girardi didn’t let Joba finish the inning against the red sox went he got on the roll struckout 12. Joba pitched 7 innings against detroit only giving up 1 run and was taken out after 88 pitches.
——————————–
Yea but Joba has more starts than Phil.
LOL ’tis true about Kay – he really got on Hughes, from the very beginning. I wanted to strangle him through the radio. He didn’t seem to understand that Phil had just suffered severe leg injuries and wasn’t fully healthy during 8/07. He certainly didn’t give Phil much credit for how he pitched in September or October of that year. Didn’t Al Leiter also say that he didn’t see anything special in Phil?
Franco, at this point I’d welecome any one of Joba’s alledged 4 pitches and find out which one he can throw for a strike…..What upside…Check back in 5 years….
Pel – do you do anything besides post audio clips?
Jose Molina is not only calling a bad game, but, he called for a two run double from Bleich, but has struck out twice in two at bats. He’s in mid-season form.
Yea I dont know maybe
Thanks, Pel!
im guessing it still takes jose 8 minutes to run to first
The important thing is that both Joba and Phil have what it takes to be stud pitchers for a long time. They are different types and I find that very interesting. It’s really too bad that Phil’s cutter and change are being hindered by him being in the pen for nwo, but on the other hand, the FB (the most important pitch) is ridiculously good. 95 and on the black? Phil’s an artist out there, his command has been so good. He was showing that since the first Baltimore outing and he had a spectacular game against Texas – he does act like he owns the mound and I love to see that.
GB7 -
I just went to check out the Trenton lineup, saw Jesus M. was DH-ing and the “Jorge Vazquez Experience” at 1B. What is that all about? Cracked me up.
GB7 -
And Jose had a play at the plate, apparently, too!
Now way of judging Molina’s speed. He hasn’t gotten within 90 feet of it.
Joba will be quietly taken aside in short order without fanfare and told that games are not his to call and continuously shake off his catcher.
He has to learn that his catcher will call for the pitches that are working best on the day of the game. If he chooses to experiment he can do it on the day he throws his bullpen session before his next start.
He’ll learn.
He hasn’t gotten within 90 feet of 1st, and nobody runs back to the dugout after striking out.
I was waiting for Kim Jones on the postgame to ask Aceves what it was like to pitch the ultra-important 8th inning and how he changed his approach on the mound.
PETE, actually it HAS BEEN RESCHEDULED FOR A DOUBLEHEADER TOMMOROW 5/6 AT 5:35 IN MOOSIC SWB YANKEES AND THE PAWSOX just letting you know
“A lot of people, including th media, said the same thing about Hughes last year and threw around the bust label quite a bit”
who said Joba’s a bust ?
“A lot of people, including th media, said the same thing about Hughes last year and threw around the bust label quite a bit”
who said Joba’s a bust ?
yeah, Doreen….what do you think of austin Krum’s arm? You have to see this young guy run. In a 100 yard dash, Gardner may be a half to full step faster.
I’m listening to the game now and Krum threw out Portes on the fly from left on a single. He will start hitting. Much like Gardner.
>Pel – do you do anything besides post audio clips?
yes
>Thanks, Pel!
No problemo.
GB7 -
Nice!
vinny-b July 5th, 2009 at 7:12 pm
“A lot of people, including th media, said the same thing about Hughes last year and threw around the bust label quite a bit”
who said Joba’s a bust ?
——————-
Didn’t suggest anyone said that about Joba. Just pointed out that Hughes took a lot of abuse from the media and fans last season.
Montero is now 0-8 after hitting into a DP. He’s slumping a bit, now.
Doreen, the only time that Vasquez needs to see first base is as he’s rounding it on his way home after his home runs. Quite similar to the later years Giambi.
Joba is not a bust nor will he be a bust….However he should be making some strides and he’s clearly not….I agree with CB about his off season conditioning regime or lack of…..He just needs to put away those faded news clippings and get back to work…..Both physically and mentality…And one other thing, listen to your catchers and throw aggressive strikes…..
Throwing 38 pitches, big Broxton blows the save.
GB7, I see where our boy Edwin Jackson made the All-Star team…….Tamps Bay has to be kicking themselves, as the Dodgers should as well but not to the same degree…..
Joba has 3 problems:
1. He’s not in good shape. He hasn’t been all year and its a big reason why he can’t sustain velocity, mechanics and crispness of his stuff. He’s going to have to re-dedicate himself to fitness this off-season and he is going to have to get his legs stronger. That’s the power base for a power pitcher and he has no legs this year.
2. His too stubborn and thinks he knows more than he does. Doesn’t make him any different than most 23 year olds but, it isn’t helpful to be that way on a team full of veterans.
3. He had too much hype early in his career and now is having a hard time dealing with less than stellar results.
The bottom line is, he’s been a major disappointment so far this year.
Yes, he has a lot to learn and is young. He’s also got more natural talent than anybody on this staff with the exception of AJ Burnett.
I thought Joba’s waterloo was the Mets game. After that performance, he was read the riot act and told to stop shaking off the catchers, work faster and throw more fastballs. I thought that would shake him up. Sadly, it didn’t.
Today was worse because this was the first game he stopped competing. He gave up in that inning when he just decided to throw sliders and curveballs, results be damned.
At some point, he’s either going to have to show improvement or they are going to be forced to remove him from the rotation. They are trying to win a championship and that trumpts Joba’s innings or feelings.
No excuses for today’s performance. None. Fewer excuses for his embarrassing post-game interviews.
If he really believes his stuff was good today, he is a lost cause for this year.
I’m hoping he is was just saying something to get people off his back.
I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt today. However, its gettin’ late early for Joba to start showing some signs of improvement.
It takes more to be successful in this game than talent.
I don’t think Joba fully understands that yet and its a shame.
Thanks Pel,too!
GB7
That’s what I figured. I’ve seen him play it. The Jorge Vazquez Experience does describe it pretty well. It was just odd to see it in the lineup on Ashmore’s website. (It’s always nice to be validated regarding your observations of a player, no matter how amateur – me – you are).
For those that think only Yankee reief pitchers have trouble with weak teams, Billingsley gave up 3 runs in the 8th…..but, two in the 9th. Broxton came in and allowed an inherited runner and three of his own to blow a 6-2 lead with with 2 outs. 38 pitches in one inning. The only thing saving him was a runner thrown out at third (barely) on a basehit.
Joba 3.2 innings ACE 4.0 innings,nuf said!!
I personaly think that Joba should not try to pace himself. He should just go all out and try striking people out instead of pitching to contact. I rather have Joba pitch 5 or 6 dominant innings and not try to nibble so he can go deeper in games just blow people away. Joba is on a innings limit anyway he starts pitching 7 or 8 innings he will be out of the rotation by August.
Oh, I see my two new favorite pitchers are still getting abused here….
Its not getting abused. Nobody is going to throw bouquets to Joba today for that performance.
Coupled with the way he has pitched most of the year, its disappointing. Especially for a kid with his talent.
He has a family that will cheerlead for him.
Sometimes, you have to tell the harsh truth.
I can assure you Girardi isn’t going to be patting him on the back the next few days.
Pat M.
July 5th, 2009 at 7:24 pm
GB7, I see where our boy Edwin Jackson made the All-Star team…….Tamps Bay has to be kicking themselves, as the Dodgers should as well but not to the same degree…..
————————————————————
Yeah, PAT M, I saw that. I’m jealous of Detroit. I’m getting my gang of cutthroats together and going to Detroit to kidnap him. I figure we could pull it off by putting him in pinstripes and running our butts off out of town.
I don’t understand how Joba was read the riot act and yet he performed as if it went in one ear and out the other. Joe and others must be getting pretty annoyed at him by this point.
M, who are you referring to? Not AJ?
Doreen
July 5th, 2009 at 7:26 pm
GB7
That’s what I figured. I’ve seen him play it. The Jorge Vazquez Experience does describe it pretty well. It was just odd to see it in the lineup on Ashmore’s website. (It’s always nice to be validated regarding your observations of a player, no matter how amateur – me – you are).
————————————————————
Only those heavily ensured against Acts Of god will be allowed to sit behind first base. Sadly, he throws like Giambi, too….which is to say….ugly.
GB, unless Edwin Jackson is an expert blogger and can crack a bad pun with the best of them, don’t do that. We can’t afford to lose you and Pat M.
GB7 -
Betsy
July 5th, 2009 at 7:37 pm
GB, unless Edwin Jackson is an expert blogger and can crack a bad pun with the best of them, don’t do that. We can’t afford to lose you and Pat M.
————————————————————
Not sure about his punning skills, Betsy, but, he can pitch. In the last year and a half, he’s gone from major disappointment to jewel.
lol, SJ. I wasn’t talking about Joba.
And I was just kidding.
We need a new post
Doreen
July 5th, 2009 at 7:37 pm
GB7 -
————————————————————
It would be bad when his defensive replacement is Juan Miranda.
Girardi said something very telling in the post-game…..
He talked about Joba’s youth and all that stuff….
Then he said, “when you struggle, you can’t keep going back to old patterns, thinking that will help. It doesn’t”.
What he means, and what CB and I have talked about ad nauseum is, Joba keeps falling in love with his slider and thinks that his get out of jail free card when he gets in trouble.
He still doesn’t see how its the slider that continues to get him in trouble because he can’t throw it consistenly for strikes, hitters have adjusted to that, and Joba simply won’t change.
Its got to drive Girardi and Eiland nuts.
In the end though, only Joba can fix Joba. If he can, great.
If he can’t? Then you have to put him in another role where he doesn’t hurt the team.
He’s got to be MUCH better in the second half. The excuses are over. Its production time.
m: if anyone abuses your babies, let me know, I will defend them!
SJ44 -
Girardi was visibly straining to be diplomatic in discussing Joba. He will never throw a player under the bus and he will never discuss with the media anything he hasn’t already said to a player. He did say, though, that there will be discussions, some animated and some not so animated, with Joba. He’s clearly a bit frustrated. Welcome to the club.
Well, at least he’s out of our division, right? It’s good to be patient with talented kids.
wait, we traded for eric hinske!?!?
lol sorry im late i was on vacation the past week, ehh hows thats trade going so far? did he have any ABs yet?
The frustrations and disappointments with Chamberlain reads very much like the same issues that the Yanks had with Ron Guidry in the early 70s and in the ‘51 and early ‘52 seasons with Mantle. A world of talent with some success and stubborn/obstinate to a damaging fault.
now i miss pena
you gotta have faith (aceves, you da man!)
Hinske has yet to play