K-Man celebrates an unwanted record
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Jul 07, 2009 
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Kei Igawa — remember him? — tied the Scranton franchise record for career wins yesterday when he beat the Pawtucket Red Sox. The K-Man has 26 wins with Scranton over the last three season. He tied the record set by Evan Thomas, a former Phillies prospect who won 87 games in the minors from 1996-2006 and never made it to the majors.
“It’s a stepping stone, not a final goal of mine,” Igawa told Chad Jennings of the Times-Tribune.
Meanwhile, the Yankees passed on All-Star Ted Lilly and paid $46 million for Igawa. Yikes.
Meanwhile, Chad reports that the International League could move home games out of Scranton if the field drainage issues cannot be solved. The Yankees sent Stadium groundskeeper Dan Cunningham to check the situation out.
Read Chad’s story for more details.
Ted Lilly would not nearly be as good in the AL East. That said, ouch indeed.
Give Igawa the Thursday start.
Worry about the long-term solution after the ASB.
Um..congrats?
What is he Yankees plans for this guy?
Although Igawa was certainly a predictable bust, Ted Lilly was no major prize for the 4 years and $40M he wanted.
No thanks.
Doesn’t matter what he’s doing in the NL because the numbers don’t translate to the AL.
He was a .500 pitcher with a career 4.60 ERA in the AL.
I was hoping at the time that the Yanks wouldn’t sign either one of them.
haiku-man July 7th, 2009 at 1:34 pm
What is he Yankees plans for this guy?
——————–
Hide him in AAA until his contract expires.
IT’s raining again, today, too.
Scranton can’t get no luck.
I wonder why Igawa has never tried to return to Japan. I’m certain it’s largely money related. Or completely money related.
Scranton has got to be a major drag for him. I know, being from Scranton.
miggs
July 7th, 2009 at 1:32 pm
Give Igawa the Thursday start.
Worry about the long-term solution after the ASB.
====================================================
He pitched yesterday so he’s not likely pitching Thursday.
Not a bad idea being he’s a lefty against the M&M brothers.
It looks like Ace is the best option at this point. I would not be suprized if the Yankees do have to call up another arm before the break though.
Let’s hope CC and AJ go deep in their starts!
When does he get to go back to Japan and forget he was ever here? I’m not being mean, and I’m actually sorry it didn’t work out for him here.
“LOL at this idiot caller on WFAN (I guess he’s a Met fan, not sure), who complains that Girardi is too mechanical (I really don’t know what they want from this guy – I like him personally, I don’t see him as a robot), but that he LOVES Jerry Manual because he’s REALLY good with the media and seems like a REALLY COOL guy. This is the NY fan in a nutshell….then the host, Adam the Bull said you can’t get on Joe too much because the Yanks have the 3rd best record in baeball, but that he is overly mechanical”
thankful we have Girardi.
and thankful we don’t have Jerry Manuel. Even tho he’s gangsta!! LOL
“IT’s raining again, today, too.
Scranton can’t get no luck.”
Not even for 30 minutes here.
I believe Eric Hinske’s nick name should be E-Roc or E-Rock.
What do you people think?
ditmars1929 July 7th, 2009 at 1:39 pm
When does he get to go back to Japan and forget he was ever here? I’m not being mean, and I’m actually sorry it didn’t work out for him here.
——————–
In a couple of years, the Beaver can swim back home to Japan. I’m sure the Yankees won’t pay for his air fare considering what they paid for what amounted to a AAA ace.
#4 starters have a 4.00+ ERA and give you 6 innings. The Mets got that with Livan Hernandez for pennies. I’m sure there are a couple of NL guys like that who can be had for a few B level prospects.
—
#4 starters are no where near a 4 era with 6 innings per game. On average they pitch to 5+ eras. 5th starters are even worse 5.50+ eras.
And Livan Hernandez keeps getting away with looking good in pitchers parks or good defensive units behind him. He gives up way to many hits and would be a disaster in Yankee stadium.
Don’t know why everyone on this blog keeps advocating him.
Is anyone watching the MJ memorial? What the heck is wrong with Mariah’s voice? I know she has trouble singing when it’s cold, but it can’t be that cold in that stadium.
“I believe Eric Hinske’s nick name should be E-Roc or E-Rock.
What do you people think?”
maybe, if it made sense
I have a question for the board:
Before Aroldis Chapman defected the Yankees were the leaders to obtain one of last year’s Cuban defectors, Noel Arguelles (a 19 year old lefy). Does anyone know who Arguelles signed with? Or is he still out there? I would be very happy if the Yankees signed him now and sign Chapman during the winter.
A bird the hand is better than one in the bush.
I’m still baffled that the Yankees have not been able to find a taker for Igawa. Clearly he has some talent and some NL pitching starved team should try him. The Yankees are only paying him 20 million total, they could offer to eat a bunch of it, I mean as it is they are going to be on the hook for the whole amount. I guess no one will pay a dime for him or even give up a mediocre prospect? Right now Igawa is useless, it’s too bad they can’t get anything for him.
“Is anyone watching the MJ memorial? What the heck is wrong with Mariah’s voice? I know she has trouble singing when it’s cold, but it can’t be that cold in that stadium”
crack?
Why does Eric Hinske need a nickname? And why E-rock? How about E-Hin? or H-dogg? Or …
William Buckner: It will.
http://www.wunderground.com/ra.....on%2c%20PA
“Why does Eric Hinske need a nickname? And why E-rock? How about E-Hin? or H-dogg? Or …”
How about we let the guy actually do something before we give him a nickname.
jpb, according to an article on mlb.com, Noel Arguelles currently is in the Dominican Republic and hasn’t signed with a team yet, and the Yankees are still interested
MelkyIsGod
July 7th, 2009 at 1:24 pm
I believe Eric Hinske’s nick name should be E-Roc or E-Rock.
What do you people think?
————————————————————
The same as I did the other 4 times that you’ve posted this since last night. Not much.
I prefer “Iroquois”.
KO,
Thanks for the reply. I hope they go ahead and sign him.
RS,
Using Wang & Hughes to argue against Aceves actually helps the argument for Aceves. An effective starter is your best chance to win. Wang & Hughes were simply ineffective, and the bullpen couldn’t help take those runs off the board. Their record has nothing to do with Aceves anyway.
Why wouldn’t you want to put the best starting 5 out there? And whomever replaces Wang is essentially the #3 because he’s slotted behind AJ. There are no throwaways here, especially with Andy being ineffective, and Joba being inconsistent. All hands on deck.
Is anyone watching the MJ memorial? What the heck is wrong with Mariah’s voice? I know she has trouble singing when it’s cold, but it can’t be that cold in that stadium
============================
Watching online, yeah, her voice was crackling
GreenBeret7 July 7th, 2009 at 1:47 pm
MelkyIsGod
July 7th, 2009 at 1:24 pm
I believe Eric Hinske’s nick name should be E-Roc or E-Rock.
What do you people think?
————————————————————
The same as I did the other 4 times that you’ve posted this since last night. Not much.
I prefer “Iroquois”.
—————
Seriously, the guy must have posted this question about 20 times.
Here is one I thought up for our bullpen:
Mariano Rivera and the Dealin’ Philthy Aces
what does everyone think????
Dealin for Dealin Dave Robertson
Philthy for the Philthies (Came up with this one myself)
And Aces because Aceves and also the Philthies are aces too!!
The Philthy bridge to Mo?
At the time of the Igawa thing Cashman said that Lilly would cost $46 mil plus luxury tax and he thought Igawa was as good as Lilly.
I guess the difference in a few million was a legit #3 starter in the AL east (durable too) and a career AAA pitcher.
jpb-
me too. you can never have too much young pitching depth, especially with the talent that these guys have. Chapman is lefty and can throw 100. I’ll take a flyer on that. lol.
Somebody in the prior thread asked who would be in the outfield next year if not the two 4th outfielders and a prospect, so I’ll toss out my $0.02 for the masses. Here’s the two guys one of which I’d like to see the Yanks be able to get.
1) SJ44 mentioned him a while ago but Shin Soo Choo is the man. When you consider what the Indians wanted for Derosa, good young pitching, and you consider the best part of our farm system, good young pitching, I can see a match here for sure. It may hurt and we may have to give up guys like Z-Mach and Melancon but Choo is a good player to have on your team.
2) I know he has sucked this year but what about Jay Bruce? Would the Reds not trade so low on the guy that he couldn’t be had? Maybe with this decline in performance they think Joey Votto, and not Bruce is their future.
One way or another we’re going to need 2 outfielders because Jackson may still be learning not to be a strikeout machine at that point. I say we go the trade route because Matt Holliday is a Coors Field product and Jason Bay is going to get significantly overpayed.
Wow what’s up with the nicknames today?
Epic fail
jpb1973
July 7th, 2009 at 1:43 pm
A bird the hand is better than one in the bush.
————————————————————
You obviously are looking at the wrong bush.
Patrick July 7th, 2009 at 1:52 pm
At the time of the Igawa thing Cashman said that Lilly would cost $46 mil plus luxury tax and he thought Igawa was as good as Lilly.
I guess the difference in a few million was a legit #3 starter in the AL east (durable too) and a career AAA pitcher.
——————
.500 pitcher in the AL East is a legit #3? More like a #4. Still better than a AAA ace.
Just as long as Monstero sticks for our lord and savior Jesus Montero I’m okay.
How about, wait for the offseason to worry about the 2010 team and don’t make bad trades in-season (like last year).
I wonder why Igawa has never tried to return to Japan. I’m certain it’s largely money related. Or completely money related.
Scranton has got to be a major drag for him. I know, being from Scranton.
????????????????????????????????????
According to Japanese papers, Igawa wanted to go back, and requested Yankees to send him back (or find a way for him to go back there), but they didn’t. Instead, they tried to ship him somewhere within the USA, but no team wanted to have anything to do with him.
Igawa was not one of the best but was certainly a very good starter in Japan. When he was the ace for the Hanshin Tigers, I cared less about how he was doing or what he wanted to do with his career because I was a huge fan of Matsui’s and his team (Yomiuri Giants). But, I have been rooting for him ever since he joined the Yanks. I’m sorry that things didn’t work out for him.
The Nady/Marte deal was not a bad deal at the time.
I’ve been thinking that Jose Molina really needs a nickname.
J-Rock? J-mol?
Jomo?
what do you guys think?
I love the Met fans calling the Fan saying they are Yankee fans knocking Jeter.
Please worry about your own team!!
Do you know why it was not a bad play, HE WAS SAFE!!
Twitter address
Yankeesvoice
Jerkface July 7th, 2009 at 1:58 pm
I’ve been thinking that Jose Molina really needs a nickname.
J-Rock? J-mol?
Jomo?
what do you guys think?
—————————–
The “Jomo” one might be a problem if you pronounce the J as a H….
You can’t make that call if ur the ump yesterday. Baseball needs to have replay on close calls.
Do people realize that Aceves has been our most valuable reliever this season? He has pitched more innings than Mo, has more wins and fewer losses, and a lower ERA. And he has only been up since May.
I have always been a Joba to the rotation person, so believe me…I understand the importance of starters over relievers. However, Aceves isn’t just a typical short inning reliever. He’s a guy who can pitch 5 innings in 5 games, which amounts to the same workload as a #4 starter anyway.
vb03,
Look at his stats in the AL east, pretty good if you ask me.
2003 – 4.34, 31 starts
2004 – 4.06, 32 starts
2005 – 5.56, 25 starts (shortened by injury)
2006 – 4.31, 32 starts
So basically when healthy Lilly is a low 4 ERA guy in the AL.
In the NL his numbers predictably get better:
2007 – 3.83, 34 starts
2008 – 4.09, 34 starts
2009 – 3.32, 17 starts, on pace for 34 starts
Check out this thing written back in 2006 (when hitting was elevated):
Spot MLB AL NL
#1/#2 3.87 3.97 3.78
#2/#3 4.36 4.41 4.31
#3/#4 4.84 4.84 4.84
#4/#5 5.67 5.66 5.68
So according to that study Lilly is a 2/3 starter in the AL and a 1/2 starter in the NL.
Link: http://www.hardballtimes.com/m.....4-starter/
Hughes was ineffective? Except for one inning Baltimore, his ERA as a starter this year is 3.47. Hughes’ big problem is that, unlike every other Yankees pitcher, he apparently hasn’t earned the right not to be judged by one bad blowout outing.
On a serious nickname note, which teams leads the league in cool nicknames?
The Dodgers have Kershaw = Minotaur which is pretty cool and Matt Kemp = The Bison
We have Pena = El Nino which is funny and pretty cool, Leche, Broadway (Damon’s)
We cant see Igawa on thursday! I rather see Swisher start the game.
I’m surprised Michael Jackson wasn’t on the cover of Popular Mechanics too.
Oops, wrong thread.
“The Nady/Marte deal was not a bad deal at the time. ”
According to your opinion. Some people didn’t like the trade when it happened.
I’d like Holliday. I think, with this year in Oakland, his price is going to come down to Earth. With the Red Sox and Angels presumably out of the running, I think we could get a good deal on him. I would think in the range of four years for 13-14 per. A Matsui like contract.
The “Jomo” one might be a problem if you pronounce the J as a H….
—
>:)
~~~~
Do people realize that Aceves has been our most valuable reliever this season? He has pitched more innings than Mo, has more wins and fewer losses, and a lower ERA. And he has only been up since May.
I have always been a Joba to the rotation person, so believe me…I understand the importance of starters over relievers. However, Aceves isn’t just a typical short inning reliever. He’s a guy who can pitch 5 innings in 5 games, which amounts to the same workload as a #4 starter anyway.
—–
Since when has Aceves pitched 5 innings in 5 games? And pitching 1 inning per game puts pressure on the rest of the bullpen and the starting pitching to perform. If Wang is going in that game you figure 4+ runs are being given up. If any of the other 1 inning relievers has a bad day you’re looking at 1 or more runs in the game.
1 inning relievers are only as good as the starters and the other relievers in the pen.
““It’s a stepping stone, not a final goal of mine,” Igawa told Chad Jennings of the Times-Tribune.”
LMAO
I’m too Awesome to make an opinion on this.
JerkFace, Michael Kaye came up w/ the Philthies before you.
Jerkface:
Hard to beat Kung Fu Panda…
“Do people realize that Aceves has been our most valuable reliever this season? He has pitched more innings than Mo, has more wins and fewer losses, and a lower ERA. And he has only been up since May.”
http://www.puristbleedspinstri.....-post.html
Brandon: Yes obviously! He is in love with that nickname, I think that name is stupid so I am just acting a fool on here with some nicknames
Re: Kei Igawa
Once a player leaves Japan or even announces the intention of leaving Japan, it is considered a huge loss of honor to return.
Once a player starts the posting process to come to MLB, they really have almost no choice but to continue to they face huge shame in Japan
“I’d like Holliday. I think, with this year in Oakland, his price is going to come down to Earth. With the Red Sox and Angels presumably out of the running”
why would Boston be out of the running? They haven’t locked-up Bay yet
and the Angels? They will not be re-siging Vlad
5 people I would like to punch in the face:
1) Curt Schilling
2) Manny Ramierez
3) This guy named Dan I used to date
4) Carl Pavano
5) Pedro Martinez
Kung Fu Panda is the best nickname in the major leagues. Every time I see him belly flop on his slides I have to stop myself from laughing.
Five people I want to punch in the face:
1) Karl Rove
2) Osama bin Laden
3) Fred Phelps
4) Kim Jung Il
5) Than Shwe
“why would Boston be out of the running? They haven’t locked-up Bay yet
and the Angels? They will not be re-siging Vlad”
There’s only 1 FA I have my eyes on and it’s neither of these.
But I’ll give you a hint he is Cuban.
San Fran has:
Kung Fu Panda
The Freak
The Big Unit
Looks like the Giants are winning
I believe Igawa hasn’t been able to go back to Japan because he hasn’t agreed to give up his money. He could leave tomorrow if he wants to give up that contract.
Nicknames? Really?
Meanwhile, nice to know that we have pitching’s version of Crash Davis.
No politics, please.
Patrick July 7th, 2009 at 2:02 pm
vb03,
Look at his stats in the AL east, pretty good if you ask me.
2003 – 4.34, 31 starts
2004 – 4.06, 32 starts
2005 – 5.56, 25 starts (shortened by injury)
2006 – 4.31, 32 starts
So basically when healthy Lilly is a low 4 ERA guy in the AL.
————————
He had a 1.4 WHIP on the average from his age 27-30 seasons (OAK/TOR). That just doesn’t cut it for me as a #2/#3 in the AL. In 3 years in TOR he had a 4.50 ERA.
5 people I would like to punch in the face for now:
1) James Dolan
2) Dustin Pedroia
3) that small monopoly looking guy on DNL
4) Mike Francesa
5) Micheal Kaye
No, they haven’t locked up Bay yet, but they will.
I forgot Vlad was a free agent this year. Then maybe they will go after Holliday. I still don’t think he’ll get a ridiculous contract though. Certainly not one that would be too much of an impediment to us, considering we’ll be dropping Damon, Matsui, Pettitte, and Nady from the books.
Don’t forget Meche was available
as well.
So Scrantons just a stepping stone for Kei?
No wonder the dude wears those big sunglasses.
Future’s so bright.
haiku-man July 7th, 2009 at 11:20 am
Washburn was lights out last night.I wonder if Cashman is working the phones for pitching,sure he is!!
==============================================
I was there!
I don’t usually attend week night games, but thought it would make a nice capper to my 4-day weekend. Little did I realize I would witness ‘one shy of perfect’…
http://compassrosy.blogspot.co.....rfect.html
vb03
July 7th, 2009 at 1:49 pm
GreenBeret7 July 7th, 2009 at 1:47 pm
MelkyIsGod
July 7th, 2009 at 1:24 pm
I believe Eric Hinske’s nick name should be E-Roc or E-Rock.
What do you people think?
————————————————————
The same as I did the other 4 times that you’ve posted this since last night. Not much.
I prefer “Iroquois”.
—————
Seriously, the guy must have posted this question about 20 times.
This is what we get for letting 10-15 year olds to post in the blog…
I’m going to make a prediction here and I don’t usually do that.
I’ve been high on Aceves since last year. I advocated NOT signing Pettitte this offseason because I wanted Aceves to have a shot at joining the rotation.
With the current state of the roster, no matter who starts on Thursday I think Aceves goes into the rotation after the ASB.
Prediction: If Aceves joins the rotation, he will remain in the rotation for the rest of the regular season and will be the team’s 4th starter in the playoffs. When Wang is ready to return Joba will be shifted to the pen or sent down to AAA. Once he’s given a shot there’s no way they remove him. Just watch.
4.5 ERA = #3 starter whether you like it or not…
Laura – Win together, strike out alone!
July 7th, 2009 at 1:43 pm
Is anyone watching the MJ memorial? What the heck is wrong with Mariah’s voice? I know she has trouble singing when it’s cold, but it can’t be that cold in that stadium.
=================
Laura, at first I was surprised that anybody cared about Mariah Carey, but then I remembered that you think Madonna is still talented and relevant. Oh no! MC’s voice is shot! Let’s have another memorial concert, this time for her!
I’m going to listen to Creed now, wish they’d make a comeback. Where are my Linkin Park and Nickelback mp3s??!!??? Can’t find ‘em, better listen to Whitney Houston instead…
Patrick July 7th, 2009 at 2:18 pm
4.5 ERA = #3 starter whether you like it or not…
————————–
Agree to disagree. Especially not with a 1.4 WHIP.
Nick in SF July 7th, 2009 at 2:14 pm
No politics, please.
——————-
Absolutely. Keep politics out of here. Period.
miggs: No doubt in my mind Aceves would be awesome.
My worry is how you replace those innings in the bullpen.
I can’t limit it to 5 people(sports related) I wanna punch in the face.
I have a lot of anger
I don’t see Joba moving out of the rotation this season at all.
Not going to happen until he nears his innings cap.
His stuff does not translate to the pen right now. Not at all.
Its hard to justify Ted Lilly as anything higher than a #4 starter no matter how you view the stats.
You could make an argument that he has been in a slight decline over the past 2 years as well, given his numbers in the NL.
I’m not losing any sleep over missing out on Ted Lilly.
SA then give us your top 10!
“Since when has Aceves pitched 5 innings in 5 games?”
He pitched 2.1 innings last Thursday, and 4 innings on Sunday. So that’s actually 6.1 innings in 4 games, better than anyone else on the team can do, unless CC pitches on short rest one day.
And I’m not saying that he does that every week. I’m only pointing out the flexibility he provides. He can be the set-up man 2 days in a row, or he can be a long reliever twice in 4 games, or he can pitch the 6th and 7th inning one day, etc.
I agree that relievers are dependent on the starters that pitch in front of them, but it’s also important to have relievers that can pitch multiple shutout innings when the team is losing, and give them the chance to come back…unless you expect to have a lead in the 7th inning every single game.
who are the top 5 lohud yankee bloggers that you’d like to punch?
5 people I want to punch in the face:
1. Nancy Pelosi
2. Osama Bin Laden
3. Michael Moore
4. This kid I went to high school with, Jason
5. Jonathan Papelbon
Yeah I would punch women and fatties I don’t even care
Please keep politics off this board. Don’t care about your ideology.
miggs,
It all depends on your definition of a #?? starter. According to the average ERA of all #3 starters in baseball, Ted Lilly has been a #3 starter throughout most of his career.
Okay, bear with me. What I’m about to type is in no way meant to denigrate what Aceves has done. But this insistance that Aceves is filling a role out of the bullpen that no one else could do is not jiving with my memory of his appearances. I only went up to 6/4 because, well, it’s tedious, but here’s the results:
5/4-Losing 4-0 when he came in
5/13-Leading 6-2 when he came in
5/16-Winning pitcher in the 11th
5/17-Winning pitcher int he 10th
5/20-Hold in a game we won 11-4
5/21-Came in after Joba left .2 IP/0 ER (line drive in leg?)
5/25-Came in after Phil’s 8 shutout innings, winning 11-0
5/26-Took the loss in relief of Joba’s 4.0 IP
5/29-3 inning hold in a 3-1 win
6/11-Blown save in Boston
6/4-gave up tying run, rescued by offense
————————————————–
Again, this is only to show that Aceves is not needed in the bullpen at the expense of the rotation.
slow day on the blog.
Igawa has 1 more year on the books?
Just shows you the difference between AAA and the show…
Jay bruce is like 22 yrs old the yare not trading him, patience. how about the yanks give melancon another chance, if he shines that makes it easier to put aceves in the rotation.. having tomko waste a roster spot hurts. goldman and pinstripe bible shows how this hurts the team..
just like berroa on the roster hurt the team. I am not sold yet that ransom has zero value but that day may come sooner versus later.
ooo this looks like fun…i want to punch people too!
1) Third Base Umpire from yesterday’s game
2) 2nd base umpire from yesterday’s game
3) Jose Bautisa (Damn you!)
4) Youkilis
5) Last but not least, Dan, the guy erica used to date!
“Once a player starts the posting process to come to MLB, they really have almost no choice but to continue to they face huge shame in Japan”
And Scranton is what, honorable?
Remember when San Diego was kind of interested in him? Cashman should have jumped all over that.
I don’t want to punch anyone in the face.
So, can Kevin Costner play the K-Man in a movie then, chasing the Minor League record for wins? First thing I thought when I read this post was “Bull Durham”.
Laura – Win together, strike out alone!
July 7th, 2009 at 1:43 pm
Is anyone watching the MJ memorial? What the heck is wrong with Mariah’s voice? I know she has trouble singing when it’s cold, but it can’t be that cold in that stadium.
==================
By the way, if something does sound wrong, then I’m guessing her state-of-the-art, live auto-tuning machine is broken. Or the speakers amplifying her lip-synced vocal track are busted…
Hey!
I’m a human Being!
“I don’t want to punch anyone in the face.”
I want to punch you in the face.
And I’m not talking about the results, but basically the instances that he was brought in. I know that more recently Aceves was brought in higher leverage situations, but Phil’s the 8th, Coke the 7th, Bruney (?), so that leaves Aceves & Tomko as long guys?
10 people I wanna punch:
10. Jerry Jones
9. Mark Cuban
8. Terrell Owens
7. John Rocker
6. Mike Francesa
5. Mike Lupica
4. Curt Schilling
3. Kevin Youkilis
2. James Dolan
1. Jonathan Papelbon
Just off the top of my head
Heyman says the Yanks and Phillies as the favorites for Halladay.
Has there been any big name in the last 10 years that Heyman doesn’t see the Yanks as the favorites to acquire him?
the thing that makes aceves very valuable is his flexibility and obviously his so far stellar results. the guy can come in the 8th, pitch 4 innings anothe rnight, and came in when joba got hit ealry in the game with men on base and boom 2 or 3 innings.
aceves results have been huge this year, he has struggled very very infrequently.
if girardi takes the training wheels of hughes and allows him to go 2 innings that will also help the pen a ton…..so far he has really limited hughes outings if i am not mistaken…
5 people I want to punch in the face:
1a. Papelbon
1b. Youkilis
2. Schilling
3. My brother-in-law
4. Varitek
S.A.–It’s a marathon, not a sprint
July 7th, 2009 at 2:32 pm
10 people I wanna punch:
10. Jerry Jones
9. Mark Cuban
8. Terrell Owens
7. John Rocker
6. Mike Francesa
5. Mike Lupica
4. Curt Schilling
3. Kevin Youkilis
2. James Dolan
1. Jonathan Papelbon
Just off the top of my head
Take deep breaths, find your happy place
serenity now
Man, we are a VIOLENT group today, aren’t we?
stuart a,
psst…Aceves went 4 innings because they’re stretching him out.
If can add one person to my list it would definitely be Josh Beckett.
Five people (sports) I like to shake hands with.
Jeter
Yogi
Eli
Big Stein
Tiger
off the top of my head
Patrick,
Mixing gorilla testosterone and Red Bull might not be the best thing for you. Maybe decaf and Tylenol PM?
Dan
July 7th, 2009 at 2:30 pm
Hey!
I’m a human Being!
***
Hahaha, but if you are the Dan that I went out with a few times.. no, you are not a human being
RalphieD (OPPC)
July 7th, 2009 at 2:29 pm
ooo this looks like fun…i want to punch people too!
1) Third Base Umpire from yesterday’s game
2) 2nd base umpire from yesterday’s game
3) Jose Bautisa (Damn you!)
4) Youkilis
5) Last but not least, Dan, the guy erica used to date!
____________________________________________________________
You win!
Five sports people I want to punch in the face:
1) Red Sox Organization (only the men)
2) Dallas Cowboys Team
3) Chris Russo
4) Steve Philips
5) Marty Foster
Well you can never go wrong picking the Yankees as a player for any big name because, let’s face it, they pretty much always are and always have the resources to win if they choose.
“Heyman says the Yanks and Phillies as the favorites for Halladay.
Has there been any big name in the last 10 years that Heyman doesn’t see the Yanks as the favorites to acquire him?”
#6 on my punch people in the face list.
Awww- Thanks RalphieD. That’s sweet
5 People I would like to shake hands with:
1) Derek Jeter
2) Paul McCartney
3) Don Mattingly
4) Paul Simon
5) Jim Henson (I don’t care that he died 20 years ago)
Stultus Magnus,
You just made my list.
(Giuseppe Franco
July 7th, 2009 at 2:32 pm
Heyman says the Yanks and Phillies as the favorites for Halladay.
Has there been any big name in the last 10 years that Heyman doesn’t see the Yanks as the favorites to acquire him?)
Your so funny (Pete) I mean Giuseppe.
Five people (sports) I like to shake hands with.
Jeter
Yogi
Eli
Big Stein
Tiger
====================
I like that list Uncle E.
I would wanna shake their hand too
“Five people (sports) I like to shake hands with.”
Living:
1) Yogi Berra
2) Mariano Rivera
3) Tiger Woods
4) Lou Lamoriello
5) Hank Aaron.
Deceased:
1) Lou Gehrig
2) Jackie Robinson
3) Branch Rickey
4) Joe McCarthy (the manager)
5) Casey Stengel
6) Larry Doby
2) Paul McCartney
Yes
this will probably never happen but wouldn’t it be nice to have a picture of each blogger here so that we can place a name with a face –
i’d love to see what GB7 or Nick From SF look like – it would be like seeing old friends again…
Heyman does that so Yankee fans can go postal if they don’t get him.
You want Roy Halliday?
You want to trade Phil Hughes or Joba Chamberlain (most likely Hughes, since JP isn’t a Chamberlain fan), Austin Romine, Manny Banuelos and Austin Jackson to get Halladay and probably Vernon Wells, because you know JP will look to get rid of Wells’ contract?
Let’s say you can convince JP not to take back Wells’ contract.
Hughes, Baneulos, Romine and Jackson for Halladay. Still want to do it?
That’s an awful lot of talent to give up and that’s if JP would even take that package.
Not easy once you get your heads out of the clouds and realize just how much you have to give up to get a guy of that calibur.
“Heyman says the Yanks and Phillies as the favorites for Halladay.”
No way TOR trades Halladay to the Yankees. That is one intra-division deal that won’t happen.
Patrick
July 7th, 2009 at 2:41 pm
Stultus Magnus,
You just made my list.
====================
Strange world. You’re angry that Nick isn’t angry enough to punch somebody.
And now I’m happy that I made you angrier.
Sick and twisted world.
“5 People I would like to shake hands with:”
I’m too Awesome for this.
“this will probably never happen but wouldn’t it be nice to have a picture of each blogger here so that we can place a name with a face –
i’d love to see what GB7 or Nick From SF look like – it would be like seeing old friends again…”
http://photos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/p.....704820.jpg
That’d be me.
“Your so funny (Pete) I mean Giuseppe.”
I knew it all along hahahah!!!!!!
Hughes, Baneulos, Romine and Jackson for Halladay. Still want to do it?
===============================
Oh no no no
I’m a big believer in building the farm. I love how the kids have trickled up over the past few seasons. But the reality is that the Yanks are built to win now. 3 of their top 5 every day players are in their mid 30′s.
I generally wouldnt want to trade half the farm for Halladay. But if he’s out there and they can pair him and CC up for the next 2 or 3 years…they should do it.
Phillies have much better prospects then the Yankees plus they are more desperate
“Hughes, Baneulos, Romine and Jackson for Halladay. Still want to do it?”
They do that and I become a Dodgers/Cardinals/Brewers fan outright.
“Hughes, Baneulos, Romine and Jackson for Halladay. Still want to do it?”
I’d slit someone’s throat the next day.
SJ44
July 7th, 2009 at 2:44 pm
Heyman does that so Yankee fans can go postal if they don’t get him.
You want Roy Halliday?
You want to trade Phil Hughes or Joba Chamberlain (most likely Hughes, since JP isn’t a Chamberlain fan), Austin Romine, Manny Banuelos and Austin Jackson to get Halladay and probably Vernon Wells, because you know JP will look to get rid of Wells’ contract?
Let’s say you can convince JP not to take back Wells’ contract.
Hughes, Baneulos, Romine and Jackson for Halladay. Still want to do it?
That’s an awful lot of talent to give up and that’s if JP would even take that package.
Not easy once you get your heads out of the clouds and realize just how much you have to give up to get a guy of that calibur.
————————————————————
Before that trade is made, you’d have to convince Halladay to sign a long term deal for a reaonable amount. Not going to happen there.
Five people I want to shake hands with:
Living –
1. Derek Jeter
2. Donovan McNabb
3. Michael Jordan
4. Eric Clapton
5. Barack Obama
Dead –
1. Augustus
2. Babe Ruth
3. Jesus
4. Mickey Mantle
5. Jimi Hendrix
SJ44 July 7th, 2009 at 2:44 pm
Hughes, Baneulos, Romine and Jackson for Halladay. Still want to do it?
——————————
Looks about right. And the answer would still be “awwwwwwww HELL no”.
The Phillies have prospects. The rub is, they aren’t better than the Yankees.
They don’t have a Phil Hughes, or a Joba for that matter, to put in a deal.
If you are the Yankees though, why would you trade Phil Hughes? If you didn’t trade him for Johan Santana, you aren’t trading him to a division rival.
The other guys (Romine, Banuelos and Jackson)? Sure, you deal them for Doc because the Yankees have enough depth in the system now to handle moving them.
But, Phil Hughes? No way.
Its one of those Fantasy Island deals that will never take place for a bunch of reasons.
You give up one of Joba/Hughes and Romine (you dont give up Jesus). I’d give them Banuelos in a heart beat if it meant they kept McAllister. Giving up Jackson would hurt. But in the end you’re giving up one of the stud pitchers and Jackson for a Hall of Famer that’s still in his prime. The other two players wouldnt bother me to lose.
Stultus,
I was joking…
Ever see Stripes? Everybody calls me Psycho
If by chance they Yankees do trade for Doc, I think that Jays would take Z-Mac, Jackson, Romine and Dunn….Hughes, Baneulos, Romine and Jackson for Halladay is way way too much
Everyone has a plan till you punch them in the face.
Maybe I’m alone in thinking this but I wouldn’t trade Hughes or Joba for Halladay straight up. Not worth it.
I’d love to get Doc, but first of all I highly doubt he’s being traded and second I don’t want to give up the farm for him.
“the thing that makes aceves very valuable is his flexibility and obviously his so far stellar results.”
Exactly. And people won’t realize this until it’s gone, but Aceves really makes a lot of people’s jobs easier.
Take last Sunday’s game for instance. The Yankees just came off a 12 inning affair, their bullpen is spent, and they are nursing a 2 run lead in the 6th inning. Aceves comes in and pitches 4 shutout innings on just over 40 pitches. Great job, everyone goes home happy.
What happens if Aceves threw 30 pitches in that first inning and gave up 3 runs? Then Girardi would HAVE to bring in Bruney, Hughes, Coke, etc. instead of letting them get the day off (and now the Philthies are well rested and prepared for Minny).
The same thing has occurred numerous times throughout the year. Sure, any reliever can come into a game with a 4-0 deficit. But can any reliever come in and pitch 3 shutout innings while the Yankees come back and score 5 runs, and not make the manager burn through another 2-3 relievers? I wouldn’t count on Tomko doing that, that’s for sure (and he’s our back-up long man if Aceves is out).
I mixed up my alive/dead people. I get a do-over!!!!
5 People I would like to shake hands with:
Living
1) Derek Jeter
2) Paul McCartney
3) Don Mattingly
4) Paul Simon
5) Yogi Berra
*Disclaimer- Stevie Nicks and Paul O’Neill are not listed because I have already shaken their hands
Dead
1) Jim Henson
2) Mickey Mantle
3) Jackie Kennedy Onassis
4) Thurman Munson
5) John Lennon
I was on that didnt want to give up Joba or Hughes for Johan. But a big part of that had to do with the fact that i didnt think the Yanks were going to win 2 years ago no matter what. But they can win this year and next year with the talent they currently have. Add Halladay and you’re odds on favorites. I would hate to lose Joba or Hughes. But you have to give to get. If I had my choice I would keep Hughes.
Patrick-I agree. Two potential Aces for one Ace? No.
Even if only one of the 2 ends up an Ace, that’s still a bad trade.
Of course, it’s possible neither one ends up an Ace, but I wouldn’t take that risk for Halladay. Something else to look at is that both pitchers are young.
“Maybe I’m alone in thinking this but I wouldn’t trade Hughes or Joba for Halladay straight up. Not worth it.”
Agreed.
The other thing is that Halladay is 32. You’re paying an exponentially high price for a pitcher on the wrong end of his prime.
CountryClub-I’d keep Joba.
Isn’t Doc likely to be a free agent in a year and a half? I can wait. Keep the kids.
Banuelos has a higher ceiling than McAllister. But he’s also much younger and much farther away from the bigs.
McAllister could help the Yanks as early as next season if he continues to do what he’s doing now.
Jeremy Bleich is another one who could help them next year.
Both could help out in the bullpen if there are no rotation slots available and the media will declare Bleich the next Dave Righetti and McAllister the next John Wetteland.
And we’ll continue the debate for another two years whether McAllister or Bleich should remain in the bullpen and be the heir to Mo even though nobody has any idea when Mo is going to retire.
Does that sound about right?
If the Yankees didn’t want to trade Joba/Hughes for a Santana in his prime, they won’t pay a steeper price for Halladay. It’s that simple.
Aceves’s numbers, as Rebecca pointed out, are as of right now (early yet) better than Mo’s in 96′. Do you realize how absolutely incredible that is? Poor Aceves. If it hadn’t been for Joba Hughes coming up at about the same time it’d be Acevamania.
Lets check out our predictions from the start of the season, my picks were horrible. Compare with yours.
http://www.yankeesvoice.com/2009%20Preview.htm
Straight up? I’d make a one for one trade for Halladay in a NY minute because he’s a horse for the next 3-5 years.
If you could trade Joba Chamberlain for Roy Halladay straight up tomorrow, nothing else in the deal, and Cashman didn’t do it, he should be fired on the spot.
That’s a no brainer.
Problem is, that’s not how any Halladay deal would go down.
Its a volume of 3-5 prospects, at least 3 of them VERY hight end, if you want to be in the running.
vb03-I actually disagree. Halladay is also in his prime, and IMO a better pitcher because he dominates the AL East.
sab
July 7th, 2009 at 2:43 pm
this will probably never happen but wouldn’t it be nice to have a picture of each blogger here so that we can place a name with a face –
i’d love to see what GB7 or Nick From SF look like – it would be like seeing old friends again…
——-
It can be done via facebook if there are any facebookers on here. I’d share mine as I would love to see some of the faces here as well.
It’s just my opinion but if Toronto said “Hughes for Roy straight up” or “Joba for Roy straight up” I’d say no to both.
Both of our guys are cost controlled for several years and could be ace-quality as soon as next year. Halladay is good but he’s on the downside of his career and he costs a lot.
Wait till they come to OUR house AGAIN July 7th, 2009 at 2:59 pm
vb03-I actually disagree. Halladay is also in his prime, and IMO a better pitcher because he dominates the AL East.
——————————————
Wang (19 game winner version), Hughes, Melky. That was the price for Santana.
The price for Halladay will be higher, precisely because of the reasons you mentioned.
“I’d make a one for one trade for Halladay in a NY minute because he’s a horse for the next 3-5 years.
If you could trade Joba Chamberlain for Roy Halladay straight up tomorrow, nothing else in the deal, and Cashman didn’t do it, he should be fired on the spot”
100% reality check
Patrick
July 7th, 2009 at 2:53 pm
Maybe I’m alone in thinking this but I wouldn’t trade Hughes or Joba for Halladay straight up. Not worth it.
================
I’m just wary of trading those guys for somebody who’s getting up there in age. And I don’t want another 7+ years, 130+ million contract. Plus, if there’s some other blue jay they want to throw in to take money off the books, it makes the deal worse.
I just wouldn’t make that trade.
So if Cashman does, we can punch him together.
Part of the reason the Yanks didnt trade for Johan was because they knew CC was waiting in the wings. There’s nobody of that ilk out there in the current future. It’s easy to say that they should wait for Hallady to become a free agent. But that wont help them this year or next year and Halladay will be 34 at that point.
Again, I’m a believer in building through the farm. But if it were me, I’d have to strongly consider making that trade if I were Cash.
Patrick-Halladay IS in his prime. He’s 32, he has maybe 5 or 6 good years left.
“Maybe I’m alone in thinking this but I wouldn’t trade Hughes or Joba for Halladay straight up. Not worth it.”
I’d do either in a heartbeat. Chances of either of them ever being as good as Halladay is now just isn’t that high. Jays would want more, but one for one, you do it twice.
If the Yankees had signed Lilly, they would not have been able to draft Brackman. They got that part right.
CountryClub-I really think Johan is better than CC.
I know you can give the AL/NL splits. I stil think that Johan is better.
Igawa for Halladay
The Jays would want Hughes, Joba, Montero, and Jackson. No thanks.
Hughes and Wang were never asked for at the same time. They wanted Hughes to be the centerpiece of the deal first and when the Yanks balked they then wanted Wang.
Patrick July 7th, 2009 at 3:01 pm
It’s just my opinion but if Toronto said “Hughes for Roy straight up” or “Joba for Roy straight up” I’d say no to both.
============================
I would say the same thing
“If the Yankees had signed Lilly, they would not have been able to draft Brackman. They got that part right.”
Hasn’t looked that way lately.
July 7th, 2009 at 1:39 pm
“LOL at this idiot caller on WFAN (I guess he’s a Met fan, not sure), who complains that Girardi is too mechanical (I really don’t know what they want from this guy – I like him personally, I don’t see him as a robot),
====
Some robot. All you had to do was hear him speak about Bobby Murcer after the latter’s rebirth.
Girardi was very choked up. He is highly sensitive and a thoroughly good person, who cares deeply about people.
In fact, I would assert that Girardi has trouble with media types precisely because he doesn’t really know how to “play the game.” He’s just too authentic, and that stuff doesn’t come naturally to him. Therefore, he’s awkward and at times, short tempered. I really believe that has been the crux of his issues with media.
Torre knew how to spin – Girardi finds it distasteful, and to him it does not come easily.
If anything, he is the anti-robot, because he cannot function on automatic pilot.
“Part of the reason the Yanks didnt trade for Johan was because they knew CC was waiting in the wings. There’s nobody of that ilk out there in the current future. It’s easy to say that they should wait for Hallady to become a free agent. But that wont help them this year or next year and Halladay will be 34 at that point.”
King Felix is a FA in 2011. The Mariners can pay to keep him, of course, but he *is* out there.
“i’d love to see what GB7 or Nick From SF look like – it would be like seeing old friends again…”
here ya go.
http://tiny.cc/1ZMg7
http://tiny.cc/xLgpi
Aceves for Halladay?
He’s not on the downside of his career at all. If anything, he’s better now than he was 2 years ago.
The chances that Hughes or Chamberlain become as good as Halladay is not great. Simply because in today’s baseball, you don’t see guys like Halladay or CC for that matter, throw the quality innings they throw.
Factor in that both guys are probably 2-3 years away from being 200 inning, top of the rotation guys, it would be foolish of the Yankees not to do a one for one deal if that fantasy deal was ever presented to them because there is no downside.
You get Halladay, CC and AJ topping your rotation for the next 4 years.
You still have enough quality young arms to fill out the rotation because you are only losing one of your studs.
Problem is though, its never going to be a one to one deal, making the volume of prospects you give up too excessive to make the deal viable from the Yankees perspective.
“The other thing is that Halladay is 32. You’re paying an exponentially high price for a pitcher on the wrong end of his prime.”
I actually agree with this logic.
If this was 2003 then you empty the farm for him.
Now? I’ve seen too many deals the Yankees made a few years too late.
Fast forward to 2012. Halladay is 36 and making 25 million a year (extension granted at time of trade). He’s still very good, but not nearly what he is now. Classic Yankees blunder.
It’s a toss up to me between Johan and CC. I can see how people would want one over the other. But they passed on Johan because it was going to take prospects and money to get him. they knew it would only be money for CC.
Richie July 7th, 2009 at 3:03 pm
If the Yankees had signed Lilly, they would not have been able to draft Brackman. They got that part right.
================
Well, right now Brackman looks like the Yanks’ own bridge-to-nowhere. Hope he starts performing better in Single-A.
But that said, I still don’t want Lilly.
m July 7th, 2009 at 3:05 pm
Aceves for Halladay?
———————–
Would you trade 1996 Mo for Halladay? No thanks.
I remember in an interview with Jetes not too long ago (I cant remeber when…might have been a couple years ago) he said how he liked that when he came up in 96, the team let the young guys ( himself, Mo, posada) develop. He acknowledged that it didnt work out so well for the Yankees when they went and got some big name contracts (Randy Johnson perhaps? he didnt name names of course), and he likes that the organization seemed to be developing the kids again. Listen to the Captain. Joba and Phil stay
S.A.–It’s a marathon, not a sprint
July 7th, 2009 at 3:03 pm
Igawa for Halladay
***
When I was 14, in 1995 I told my dad the Yankees should trade Dion James and Gerald Williams for Ken Griffey Jr. I couldn’t understand why he didn’t think Seattle would go for it
Rebecca: Good call on King Felix. No way the Mariners let him hit the market though.
If they take on Vernon Wells contract I don’t think you’d have to give up Hughes –
I’d exchange Wang for Hughes and give up the other 3 no problem – if the jays take on half of Well’s contract I’d give them Melancon as well –
remember the yankee core – the one that is still productive(Mo, jeter, posada, arod) will only be there for about 3 more years – some less …. like it or not thats the window the yankees have to win with these players – halladay gives you a chance to win with this core every year for the next 3 years (including this one it will be 4)…
if you keep wang you’ll probably have to pay him 10 million per year to keep him in 2 years – i for one don’t think he’s worth that much – if you bring halladay in now that will motivate AJ Burnett to be the best pitcher he can be – that is worth about 5 million per year right there…
romine is an extra piece that will probably not be a part of the big club – so he’s expendable, you have to give up something to get halladay so if jackson and banuelos are those pieces so be it…
Rebecca thanks for the picture – very cute – as soon as i figure out how to post a picture i will post one of myself (i’m still trying to figure out how to attach one of those smily faces)
“i’d love to see what GB7 or Nick From SF look like – it would be like seeing old friends again…”
Here is GB when he isn’t sitting in the balcony –
http://tiny.cc/xLgpi
m-Actually, Aceves an minor leaguers for Halladay would not be a bad deal for either side. Ace has done phenomenal.
CountryClub July 7th, 2009 at 3:07 pm
Rebecca: Good call on King Felix. No way the Mariners let him hit the market though.
——————–
Nowadays teams go the Johan route (deadline bidding war), so they don’t lose their FA’s for nothing if they can’t pay for them.
The field in Scranton was built to be like Veteran’s stadium in Philadelphia. They did a good job since the Vet was a pile of crap so bad the Eagles had to move pre-season games out due to bad field conditions.
“i’d love to see what GB7 or Nick From SF look like – it would be like seeing old friends again…”
Here is Nick in SF (backstage) –
http://tiny.cc/1ZMg7
an is and.
Wait till they come to OUR house AGAIN July 7th, 2009 at 3:02 pm
Patrick-Halladay IS in his prime. He’s 32, he has maybe 5 or 6 good years left.
————–
Think of it this way, both Halladay and Burnett are 32 years old. Burnett just signed a 5 year deal.
Who do you think will age better in the next five years?
I’d put my money on Halladay to tell you the truth.
Like many people, I dont think Halladay will ever get moved anyway. And if he did and the Yanks didnt get him I wouldnt get in a twist over it. I think they can win this year without him. But for a team that’s built to win now, it might make sense to go get him if they could.
Anyway, just my opinion. I’d be cool with their decision either way.
If you are on Twitter, you can take a quiz to find out which Yankee player you are most like. I’m Mariano.
http://lolquiz.com/quiz?id=IIIS
When I was 14, in 1995 I told my dad the Yankees should trade Dion James and Gerald Williams for Ken Griffey Jr. I couldn’t understand why he didn’t think Seattle would go for it
They owed us one from the Jay Buhner Trade!
“When I was 14, in 1995 I told my dad the Yankees should trade Dion James and Gerald Williams for Ken Griffey Jr. I couldn’t understand why he didn’t think Seattle would go for it”
That trade is actually more sensible than some of the trade ideas callers into WFAN have made in the past, so I like it haha
I remember loosing my mind over that deal. Still have the original gray hairs that day spawned….
If you don’t trade the 96 version of Mo or the 97-00 version of Mendoza you also don’t trade Ace.
“Patrick-Halladay IS in his prime. He’s 32, he has maybe 5 or 6 good years left. ”
Check this out:
http://m.si.com/news/to/to/det.....nnsilive9i
and
http://sports.espn.go.com/fant.....=age27myth
“Suffice to say, from the chart above, it’s clear a player’s prime runs about six or seven years, from ages 26 through 32. ”
http://www.hardballtimes.com/m.....all-speed/
“It appears that until pitchers reach 28 or 29, they increase the speed on their fastball by about 1.5 mph. After 29, there is a rather sharp decline in fastball speed.
During the next five years, pitchers lose just over four mph. I am a little surprised that the peak is as old as it is. By the time pitchers are in their late 20s, they have thrown a huge number of pitches and have a lot of wear on their arms. The drop when pitchers turn 30 seems very rapid to me.”
The first two sources are talking about hitters declining but it still applies somewhat. The third talks about decrease in fastball speed.
Pitchers decline a lot more linearly than hitters but they DO start to decline at 30 or early 30′s.
While Halladay will probably be an ace-quality pitcher for the next 5 or so years, he IS on the downside of his career.
Hughes and Joba are on the upswing of their career and are cost-controlled. I wouldn’t trade either one for Halladay.
I’d love it if people could attach pictures to their handle.
I’m really curious to see what some of you people look like.
Yanks magic number to clinch AL East: 82
Yanks magic number to clinch a playoff berth: 79
AJ and Edwar for Halladay.
“I’d put my money on Halladay to tell you the truth. ”
So would I but we didn’t have to give up Hughes or Joba for Burnett.
Rebecca-Not really; Would you trade Mo in his prime for Pedro in his prime?
I say (blasphemy!) it’s worth it. Aces are more valuable than closers, even Mo’s.
how many people are on facebook? and frieds of the blog?
“I’m really curious to see what some of you people look like. ”
Me too
Patrick-Burnett isn’t even close to as good as Halladay.
But a straight up Joba for Halladay trade would be really tough to turn down. I think you’d have to do it.
I’d trade Joba before Hughes if given the choice.
This is really, really blasphemous. But I’d trade Joba for Halladay + extension.
“Would you trade Mo in his prime for Pedro in his prime?”
Considering Pedro was one of the best starting pitchers of all time in his prime..
Yes I make that trade, only if I can trade Pedro back for Mo after Pedro is out of his prime
M: I’d do that in a second.
“If you are on Twitter, you can take a quiz to find out which Yankee player you are most like. I’m Mariano.
http://lolquiz.com/quiz?id=IIIS”
I got Johnny Damon
Ah, but miggs is worse than me because he (she?) said it first. (a picture would be really helpful right now)
What are the odds either guy ends up better than Halladay in the next 3-4 years? Slim. Very slim. I say this because that’s what you are talking about when assessing the merits of a deal.
You can’t think 10 years down the road. Nobody does when doing a deal.
If, and I realize this is Fantasy Island, the Yankees had a chance to give up one of Hughes or Chamberlain straight up for Doc, you do it in a heartbeat because Doc will most likely be the better player for the next 3-4 years.
By that time, Hughes or Chamberlain would be approaching free agency and you just sign them when they are on the open market if they project out to be top end starting pitchers! lol
Patrick July 7th, 2009 at 3:12 pm
“I’d put my money on Halladay to tell you the truth. ”
So would I but we didn’t have to give up Hughes or Joba for Burnett.
————-
Not advocating for a trade.
I just think Halladay would age better and make the adjustments immensely better to his declining stuff than Burnett will over the next five years.
Burnett is still really stubborn about throwing his change up. We Yankee fans have to wonder just how he’s going to adjust as his stuff declines.
I don’t Halladay will go anywhere. The Jays are just dangling the carrot to see if someone offers a young guy like Joba, or like Hughes.
No one will bite, and certainly not in this economy.
“Patrick-Burnett isn’t even close to as good as Halladay.”
When did I ever say or imply that he is?
ronan tynan (god bless america guy) + kate smith recording + bob sheppard’s derek jeter recording AND 2 seats to the old stadium should be enough for Halladay…if JP says no then i suggest throwing in some yankee stadium grass seed and MAYBE…MAYBE one of those cool bricks!!…Ricciardi cant turn it down..madness!
“This is really, really blasphemous. But I’d trade Joba for Halladay + extension.”
More smart than it is blasphemous.
I would trade Hughes before Joba, personally; I think Joba still has more potential.
I would trade Kennedy, Melancon, Ramirez for Halladay… maybe throw in Igawa and money!!!
Man do people forget Joba’s just 23…
sab
July 7th, 2009 at 2:43 pm
this will probably never happen but wouldn’t it be nice to have a picture of each blogger here so that we can place a name with a face –
i’d love to see what GB7 or Nick From SF look like – it would be like seeing old friends again…
——-
It can be done via facebook if there are any facebookers on here. I’d share mine as I would love to see some of the faces here as well.
==========================================================
yankeeray – i thought about facebook but i am not sure if everyone would feel comfortable about giving their full names out – i would guess some people would prefer to be anonymous (name wise) – for whatever reason…
They should sign Pedro right now.
I said it before, he’d be a low risk worth the chance.
Too bad he won’t ever accept a BP role.
Stick him and Aceves into the rotation and send Joba to the pen or AAA to figure things out and humble himself.
Just kidding…… sort of.
“I would trade Kennedy, Melancon, Ramirez for Halladay… maybe throw in Igawa and money!!!”
If that’s all that it took the deal would be done yesterday.
miggs July 7th, 2009 at 3:15 pm
But a straight up Joba for Halladay trade would be really tough to turn down. I think you’d have to do it.
I’d trade Joba before Hughes if given the choice.
————–
Funny how things have changed over the past year. Or the past two months for that matter.
That said, as much as I love Hughes and always have, he doesn’t have the talent Joba does.
Joba needs to grow up a bit for sure, but he’s got the talent to be one of the elites.
I am on facebook, but not a friend of the blog. it seemed silly to make the blog my friend when I am always posting on here anyway
Patrick-Perhaps I’m just missing something obvious, but it looked to me like you were implying that not trading Joba and Hughes for Burnett means that it’s not worth it to trade either one for Halladay.
“What are the odds either guy ends up better than Halladay in the next 3-4 years? ”
Maybe Hughes/Joba won’t be quite as good as Halladay over the next 3-4 years but would they be close enough that the difference in price could justify keeping one of them over Halladay? I think so.
Both guys have the potential to be #1 starters in the AL east. It could happen as soon as next year. Neither will ever be as good as Halladay (probably) but they could be good enough that the difference in cost makes up for it.
Can’t we just trade the entire Staten Island Yankees for Halladay?
RalphieD (OPPC)
July 7th, 2009 at 3:17 pm
ronan tynan (god bless america guy) + kate smith recording + bob sheppard’s derek jeter recording AND 2 seats to the old stadium should be enough for Halladay…if JP says no then i suggest throwing in some yankee stadium grass seed and MAYBE…MAYBE one of those cool bricks!!…Ricciardi cant turn it down..madness!
***
Maybe throw in an old Yankee stadium urinal too
No way you can give up Ramirez in that deal. You don’t quit on a once in a generation arm.
“I would trade Kennedy, Melancon, Ramirez for Halladay… maybe throw in Igawa and money!!!”
I’d strip if that deal could be done, but no chance of that happening.
If Halladay gets traded, I really hope he signs with a NL team.
Giuseppe Franco-I agree with you.
funny how many have placed Halladay on the downside of his career….I’m guessing it has to do with short-sightedness and looking at his last game in YS as your only evidence…the guy has been outstanding this year and shows no signs of slowing at this point…so picking the guy up for 3-4 years would be little risk IMO…you obviously don’t go out and give him 10 more but a few years would be a no brainer.
We’re not even talking about Joba’s attitude here. Seriously, where did Joba’s stuff go? People say he’s holding back. People say it’s his shoulder injury when PUDGE did something.
Will we see that Joba?
id join a facebook groupie thing with people from this blog…as long as matt or mo’s flat cutter isnt on there!
Toronto cant ask for a whole lot because Halladay is a free agent next year and he is getting older 32, and he has been hit awfully hard the last 2 starts. Joba and Hughes are staying for good, both will be studs, noway trade young for old.
Please stop saying Mets pitchers would look good on our team. They are facing weaker lineups in the NL, face a pitcher in the 9 spot, are pitching in one of the biggest pitchers parks in baseball, and are under less NY scrutiny than with the Yankees.
Why do you think Santana, Webb, Smoltz, continue(d) to pitch to 2.00 ERA’s? Smoltz and his 0-2 6.60 ERA record looks beautiful right now in the AL East.
Suggit
“I’d strip if that deal could be done, but no chance of that happening.”
thank the lord…by lord i mean montero
“Both guys have the potential to be #1 starters in the AL east. It could happen as soon as next year.”
It could also never happen.
Rebecca,
Trading for Doc is not a knock to Joba. Its more a testimony of his potential because Doc is as good as it gets.
Joba may turn out to be a HOF player. He may turn out to be just a guy or, something in between.
Doc is not only great, his style of pitching has long lasting ability because his pitch counts aren’t obscene.
This isn’t like getting a 40+ year old Randy Johnson.
The chances are pretty strong Doc will be the better pitcher in the next 3-4 years.
That being the case, nothing against Joba, you have to deal that deal if it was ever proposed to Cashman.
Since it won’t happen that wasy, its much ado about nothing.
“Perhaps I’m just missing something obvious, but it looked to me like you were implying that not trading Joba and Hughes for Burnett means that it’s not worth it to trade either one for Halladay. ”
I never said that or implied that, intentionally anyways.
I was simply saying that there is a huge difference between signing Burnett @ age 32 and trading for Halladay @ age 32. One of them costs just money and a pick, Halladay would cost more money and prospects.
Totally different situations. It has nothing to do with comparing the skill of Halladay and Burnett.
Russell NY-Santana won a Cy Young pitching for the Minnesota Twins in the American League.
Hokiehill: I never said that Halladay was declining–just that he’s on the wrong side of his prime.
He’s got less years left in his career than more, even if the years remaining are dominant. In my mind, that cheapens what you’re willing to pay, even if only a little bit.
“It could also never happen.”
And Doc could pull a Clemens w/ his groin.
Patrick-All right.
Tino is about to go deep in the bottom of the ninth on Yankees classics.
plus those arguing against halladay are saying he “could be near the end” but what if Joba never reaches the beginning and Hughes has the same issues as Joba coming back from the pen next season? then your stuck with the lack of a Santana trade feeling we had last season, which only feels better this year because we have CC and Hughes has been a stud in the pen this year. this is all just wasted typing since it isn’t going to happen anyway, but SJ was right…if you had the chance to trade Joba for Halladay straight up and you didn’t pull the trigger, you would and should be fired in a second
There are over a thousand fans of the blog on facebook.
But there’s still no way to know which person is associated with which handle.
I read that as wait for Halladay to be a free agent. Was I totally wrong?
“It could also never happen.”
Wow I never realized that, thanks for informing me oh glorious steve B
Brandon… I’M AWESOME !
July 7th, 2009 at 3:20 pm
“I would trade Kennedy, Melancon, Ramirez for Halladay… maybe throw in Igawa and money!!!”
I’d strip if that deal could be done, but no chance of that happening.
————————————————————
The United Nations will stop that trade if you make threats like that. There’s already enough world suffering.
Hokiehill-I’m glad we didn’t get Santana.
Halladay is as big an injury risk as Burnett with a much bigger upside. I don’t trade Hughes or Joba for him because both have shown they can pitch to low ERA in the AL East which is valuable when they are cost controlled.
I would definitely be tempted to though if the Jays were really willing to deal to the yankees.
I’d give them Melky + whatever(getting into prospects is always an exercise in frustration) if it would lower the cost a bit and get back Vernon Wells. Basically, do everything in my power to keep Hughes,Joba,Ajax,Montero.
Potential means having never done it yet. Reality trumps potential 100% of the time.
Brian Cashman would have traded Phil Hughes straight up for Johan Santana if that offer came on his table.
In this hypothetical, we are talking one to one deal.
A one to one deal is a no brainer, IMO, because Doc is going still be great for the next 3-4 years.
We have no idea if Hughes or Joba will be great. Frankly, we don’t even know if both guys will be good.
We HOPE they will but, we KNOW what Doc is right now.
Big, big difference.
Jerkface-As big an injury risk as Burnett? Not even close IMO. Burnett was on the DL like every year since time began.
No need to be an asshat Patrick. Ignoring the obvious to bolster your argument then pissing and moaning when someone does it for you is pretty weak.
Hokie
It’s just a fact of life that you decline after age 30 or 32.
Halladay could very well be amazing until age 40 but the fact remains, he’s on the wrong side of his prime.
Personally I’d rather take the chance that Hughes/Joba are excellent starting pitchers in the near future, especially considering they are cost controlled.
It’s just my opinion…
Hokiehill-I’m glad we didn’t get Santana.
me too…just making a point and badly…
On another note, I was thinking the other day, how much do you think Santana wishes he had ended up somewhere else. The guy has been a stud but gets no run support…that has to be maddening.
“The United Nations will stop that trade if you make threats like that. There’s already enough world suffering.”
I’d sell out Toronto more home games w/ one ab peak from my AWESOME self than a regular Jays homestand. I’d basically save all the females in Toronto doing so.
“Potential means having never done it yet. Reality trumps potential 100% of the time.”
This is what I was trying to get at…thanks SJ
Wait till they come to OUR house AGAIN
July 7th, 2009 at 3:17 pm
I would trade Hughes before Joba, personally; I think Joba still has more potential.
=================
Right now, I’d trade Joba, if it came down to Hughes or him. Joba is showing signs of having his head screwed on backwards. Just my opinion. If he were throwing 97 consistently and challenging hitters, I’d change my mind. But his average velocity has dropped each season since 2007 and he’s a nutcase on the mound sometimes.
But they are both young and I think two above-average starters (which is what I think they’ll be) is better than one super starter.
This is a non-conversation anyway. It’s obvious that Halladay hates NYS.
” I don’t trade Hughes or Joba for him because both have shown they can pitch to low ERA in the AL East”
….Phil’s only shown a low ERA in the bullpen. In the rotation his ERA has been as bloated as Pablo Sandoval after an all you can eat buffet
REPOST
“The United Nations will stop that trade if you make threats like that. There’s already enough world suffering.”
I’d sell out more Toronto home games w/ one ab peak from my AWESOME self than a regular Jays homestand. I’d basically save all the females in Toronto doing so.
Steve B,
Just because I don’t acknowledge that the sun has, in fact, risen today does that mean I’m ignoring the obvious?
The fact that Joba or Hughes don’t reach their potential is so mind-numbingly obvious I didn’t feel I needed to mention it. I didn’t ignore it just to bolster my argument. In fact, in all of my arguments I say they are “potential aces” and that they “could” reach their ceiling.
Anyways, I wasn’t pissing or moaning, I was thanking you for being so glorious and helping me out.
Brandon,
Contact the Jays, maybe they’ll fly you in and put you up in one of the hotel rooms.
You can do your act from there during the games, to distract fans from how bad their team is.
Well I’m a friend of the blog so I’ll toss my picture out there if anybody was interested.
http://img124.yfrog.com/i/72917176.jpg/
My gf said I look “like a lawyer” in this picture. Two years of law school do that to a guy I guess.
FWIW I would absolutely love to trade for Halladay but the price would have to be astronomical because JP Riccardi would have to know he was essentially handing the division title to the Yankees for the next 4 years.
We’ll get Doc eventually.
Probably when he’s 39.
Patrick:
Thanks for making my point on the asshattery.
Patrick:
Thanks for making my point on the asshattery.
m July 7th, 2009 at 3:21 pm
We’re not even talking about Joba’s attitude here. Seriously, where did Joba’s stuff go? People say he’s holding back. People say it’s his shoulder injury when PUDGE did something.
Will we see that Joba?
————
We saw it in Cleveland in early June so that Joba is in there somewhere.
Maybe some humility and renewed vigor along with a good offseason conditioning program to strengthen his legs will be the big difference next season.
“Potential means having never done it yet. Reality trumps potential 100% of the time. ”
If you base it solely on next year’s performance yes.
Unfortunately there are complications such as money, age etc.
It’s just a fact of life that you decline after age 30 or 32.
Would someone be sure to mention this to Jeter?
Joba or Hughes for Halladay straight up is a good deal.
But there are times you have to bank on potential if the potential is high enough. Take Montero for example; the only player in the whole leagu really I’d trade him for (straight up) and expect the same value is Mauer.
Pujols wouldn’t work, we have a first baseman.
Hanley wouldn’t work, we have a SS.
Those are the best 2 players I could think of off the top of my head. If anyone can think of someone they’d trade for him straight up, feel free.
Joba and Phil have had more injuries already than Doc has had in his entire career.
Baseball is filled with guys who were going to be the “next big thing” in their 20′s only to turn out not to get there for a variety of reasons. Injuries being a big part of it.
In fact, if I was Cashman, and JP actually shopped Halladay, knowing Doc has a full no trade and isn’t going to a non-contender, I would only offer a one for one deal.
Perhaps throw in a couple of low level prospects to make JP look good.
I’d hold the line very, very hard and say, “pick one from Hughes or Joba, and here is a list of 10 B level prospects, pick 2 from the list” and that’s it.
Its going to be very, very tough for JP to shop Doc because of the current economy. Few teams will take on the money needed to extend Doc.
Fewer teams have the prospects AND are able to take on the money to get Doc. Interestingly, the Yankees are one of those teams.
Also, with AJ here, Doc will be a heckua lot more comfortable in NY than he would be in other areas.
If Toronto put him on the market, like San Diego found out with Peavy, their options are very, very limited because the player controls his destiny with a full no trade, which Halladay possesses.
“Brandon,
Contact the Jays, maybe they’ll fly you in and put you up in one of the hotel rooms.”
I’m too Awesome to contact ppl, ppl contact me.
Steve B, get off my ass bro. If you can’t take a little sarcasm you need to develop a tougher skin
http://yankeesvoice.mlblogs.com/
My picture guys
Giuseppe Franco-The Joba in Cleveland did well. Why? His fastball was consistently 94 to 96. That is the only start of the year that has occured.
The “best” Joba I’ve seen was last year in Fenway Park, outdueling Beckett for 7 innings. A masterful performance.
i would give Kei Igawa a shot on Thursday, but that’s me.
SJ,
Wouldn’t Ricky Ricardo be crucified for sending Doc to either the Yankees or Sox (you know that Boston would be all over that action)?
And which team would have the better chance? Or is this where Wells comes into the picture.
Or does Boston stick with Smoltz? :snort:
Jerkface-As big an injury risk as Burnett? Not even close IMO. Burnett was on the DL like every year since time began.
—
He has been on the DL for shoulder issues. But actually I was just thinking of the times he went on the DL, and it seems to be a lot of fluky stuff (appendix, line drive broken leg, etc).
I still think that he is of shakey health though.
on the subject of the post, I know the Yankees have fallen way out of love with Igawa, but why not just plug the guy in Thursday and let him work some innings. At least then you would get something out of the guy and who knows, maybe he’ll throw a quality start and some desperate team will want him…I know Aceves is the man and will probably end up in the spot, but I just don’t like messing with the best part of our team right now.
bardos,
I would, too. But alas Kei isn’t on the 40-man.
“Steve B, get off my ass bro. If you can’t take a little sarcasm you need to develop a tougher skin”
Yeah, you’re probably right. You double check the meaning of GLORIOUS in the dictionary, I’ll stop being a pisspot, and we can call it even, OK?
Its not just based on next year. There is a pretty fair chance Doc will be better than both Joba and Phil in the next 3-4 years. That would still put him at 36, one year younger than Pettitte is right now.
Money? The Yankees have plenty of money. They also have another 40+ million coming off the books next year.
Money isn’t an issue. Nor is Doc being 32 because that’s not old for a front end starting pitcher.
“But alas Kei isn’t on the 40-man.”
I think we still only have 39 on the 40 man, so this would not require some one to be taken off…same is the case with Mitre
SJ44: I like that idea. Cash should do just that. I think they’d be hard pressed to pass up on one of the young pitchers. There are very few teams in baseball that have that kind of prospect to give AND also have the money to extend Halladay. You mentioned AJ making the transition easier on Doc and that would probably be true. But having Doc here for AJ would probably be even more benficial.
SJ44-If someone told you you’d have to spend the same (ridiculous) amt. of money to get both Halladay and Chapman, but with Halladay you also need to give up Joba,who would you get if you only had enough cash for one?
I say Chapman. I’m going to make a prediction (we’ll see if it’s right, lol) that you would pick Halladay since Halladay has proven that he’s dominant already.
It would be best for all involved if Halladay ended up in the National League.
The Phillies make the most sense, and they would become the prohibitive favorites in the NL.
Toronto Blue Jays General Manager J.P. Ricciardi has spoken with Roy Halladay and prepared him for the possibility that he will bring trade possibilities to the pitcher in the weeks or months ahead.
Halladay, 32, has a no-trade clause that will allow him to dictate whether he will be dealt before he becomes eligible for free agency next fall.
“He’s open to at least listening,” said Ricciardi. “He’s not going to be a guy who will let you do all the work [preparing for a possible trade], and then he’s not willing to listen. If it makes sense, he will listen.”
The Jays’ situation with Halladay is much like that which faced the Minnesota Twins during the 2007 season with ace Johan Santana: The left-hander was set to become eligible for free agency in 2008, and after Santana turned down an offer from Minnesota, the Twins dealt him to the Mets.
Halladay is eligible for free agency after the 2010 season, and so the Jays essentially will have three windows of opportunity in which they could consider dealing the former Cy Young Award winner in the 24 days before the July 31 trade deadline; during the off-season; or next season.
And the Jays have begun the process of casting a line in the water to see what they could get in return for the right-hander, whose work ethic is as highly regarded as his ability.
“We’re not inclined to move him, but we’re going to see what’s out there,” said Ricciardi.
If Halladay walks away as a free agent after the 2010 season, the Jays would get the equivalent of two high draft picks as compensation, so that level of value would be a starting point for any interested team. Halladay would fit any team, of course.
Right now, the team most aggressively searching for a frontline starting pitcher is the Philadelphia Phillies, who no doubt would covet Halladay for their particular park for his ability to generate ground balls and missed swings — he has a ground ball/foul ball ratio of 1.30, to go along 98 strikeouts in 116 innings this season. The question about the Phillies — as it is with most teams these days, when the value of young players has never been higher — is whether they would be willing to give up what the Jays would require in trade.
The Boston Red Sox could afford Halladay and know first-hand that he is capable of pitching effectively in the AL East — something they and the New York Yankees doubted about Jake Peavy — but Boston has stubbornly clung to its young pitching, and might be reluctant to trade a package of prospects for Halladay. The Yankees have been devoted to the rebuilding of their farm system, and would have to swap some of the young stars they have developed to get Halladay.
Both Boston and the Yankees dabbled in the Santana trade talks, but neither front office was fully invested in the pursuit of the left-hander, who was three years younger than Halladay is now.
The New York Mets may or may not have the caliber of prospects that the Jays would require to make the deal; the same could be said for the Chicago Cubs. The Jays would want one of the Dodgers’ best young starters for Halladay either Clayton Kershaw or Chad Billingsley and that figures to be a deal-breaker for L.A.
Halladay, who is 10-2 with a 2.79 ERA for the Jays this year, is earning $14.25 million this year, and will make $15.75 million next season.
==========================================================
From Olney. Sounds like Doc’s in play. Let the jockeying begin.
everyone (including me) needs to slow down on the Halladay stuff. it’s a fun debate for the sake of debating, but I can’t see anyway this really happens.
SJ44– Getting 100% ahead of ourselves if they did land Halladay in a perfect world for a Hughes based package would you put Joba in the pen, right now? Despite the fact that it won’t “fix” his problems, I imagine it would become the thing to do in order to take over Hughes’ innings.
Now I for one am a Hughes fanboy and would rather trade Joba. IMO Hughes adding that cutter maybe throw the 2 seamer more, learning from the Doctor? The league would shudder at the thought of Hughes and Halladay.
My prediction-
Hughes will be a better starting pitcher than Joba.
“Money? The Yankees have plenty of money. They also have another 40+ million coming off the books next year.”
================
But SJ, aren’t the Yanks signing Chapman for 60 million????
Steve B,
glo?ri?ous
??/?gl?ri?s, ?glo?r-/
–adjective
1. delightful; wonderful; completely enjoyable
brilliantly beautiful or magnificent; splendid
See that buddy? I think you and your posts are delightful, wonderful and completely enjoyable.
Happy?
Rose-That’s funny, because I predict the opposite.
I would take Halladay over Chapman and not think twice.
In fact, the Yankees could trade for Doc, include Joba OR Hughes in the deal AND sign Chapman.
That’s how much money they have.
In fact, the more I think about it, look at it this way….
If you could have Doc AND Chapman and lose Hughes OR Chamberlain, how do you NOT do it?
In essence, you replace the young arm you lose in the deal with Chapman AND get Doc Halladay.
That’s a pretty good swap if you are the Yankees.
I’m curious though, how much more Cashman would give up if not going for Halladay meant he would go to the Sox…
Uhh… Did you guys see Joba’s first 8 or so starts last year? Throwing 100 MPH to JD drew on his last pitch of the game in Fenway?
You want to trade THAT for a good, but 32 yr old Halladay?
For that 8 game stretch, Joba was better than Halladay. Factor in the $100+ million extension and I wouldn’t even consider it.
SJ44,
40 mil won’t cut it. If Halladay is traded he’ll need something to sweeten the pot. Probably an 8 year Sabathia/Santana-like contract.
Considering he’s past his prime will cost the Yankees another $125++ million and would cost one of Hughes/Joba (both of whom I think will be aces) I don’t make that trade.
If you give up one of Hughes/Joba and two B prospects for Roy Halladay, you take that deal and run.
Gotta find out what the price is for sure! My feeling is it would take a combination something like Joba or Hughes plus two out of Melky, Romine, Dunn, Robertson or Melancon.
The idea of going into the post-season with a top three of CC, AJ and Doc is pretty amazing.
I do agree with the view that in this economy the list of suitors will be rather short. In fact it may well be Yanks/Mets/Sawx/Phils
This has been an interesting an intelligent conversation today. That’s not always the case. Good job guys (and girls).
“Uhh… Did you guys see Joba’s first 8 or so starts last year? Throwing 100 MPH to JD drew on his last pitch of the game in Fenway”
Did you stop watching after that game? I love Joba and think the guy’s still figuring it out and has a chance to be great, but Joba has been significantly *worse* than he was last season which is a far cry from the *some* improvement I was looking for…
Hokiehill July 7th, 2009 at 3:46 pm
I’m curious though, how much more Cashman would give up if not going for Halladay meant he would go to the Sox…
—————————-
He shouldn’t make deals scared. If the Red Sox want to break their farm system for Halladay, let them do so. Make the Sox pay as much as possible in the process, though.
I’ve seen this movie before with Santana. It will likely end the same way, with Halladay going to the NL.
SJ-You’re right that we probably have enough cash for both (although I still say no way Jays trade Halladay anyway). But in my hypothetical situation where we only have enough cash for one I’m thinking that we take Chapman. That gives us three potential future Aces, and even if only one turns out to be an Ace and the other two just do pretty good, we have an incredible young pitching staff. Even if all three turn out pretty good we have an excellent young pitching staff.
so *_* does not = bold anymore…
Jeter is about to become Mr. November.
Wait till they come to OUR house AGAIN July 7th, 2009 at 3:38 pm
Giuseppe Franco-The Joba in Cleveland did well. Why? His fastball was consistently 94 to 96. That is the only start of the year that has occured.
————-
I think it’s a combination of things but his physical condition might be at the top of the list.
He just looked in better shape last year than he does this season. Maybe the hype got into his head a little bit and perhaps he was distracted with all the off the field issues (ie: DUI, mother’s arrest, etc, etc).
This might be a good question for SJ, actually.
I wonder if it’s possible that the organization told Joba to ease up on his offseason regimen a bit because of the shoulder issue he had last year in August and he felt it for a second time at the end of the season.
I ask that question because Cashman did admit the organization screwed up with Wang’s offseason workout regimen and specifically told him not to work out his legs as he normally did in years past because of the lisfranc injury.
As it turned out, Wang’s issues in April were exacerbated by the lack of velocity because his legs weren’t generating enough drive in his delivery.
The organization told Bruney the very same thing because of his lisfranc problem last year and now elbow issues have plagued him this season.
Is it possible that the yanks took the same approach with Joba and his offseason regimen and now Joba is suffering the consequences of that decision?
Inquiring minds wanna know. But I wouldn’t be shocked at all if we find out next season that that was indeed the case and we see something closer to the real Joba we remember from last year when he was in the rotation.
They still publish “Playgirl”? Yuck.
Doc has 22 million more owed on his current contract…
He’s a FA at the end of next year.
Whomever trades for him is not going to give up their #1 pitching prospect plus other prospects and let him go for draft picks after next year.
That means, whomever trades for him has to sign him to a 5 year deal. CC and AJ set the bar for length of contract.
How many teams can realistically do that these days.
The Yankees and Red Sox.
The Red Sox won’t pay Doc that kind of money unless they are ready to let Beckett walk.
In a funny, weird way, the Yankees are in a good spot IF JP wants to deal him.
In the end, I think JP is going to find the market really dry for him right now for financial and personnel reasons.
That said, AJ and Doc talk all the time. There is no doubt, AJ is pumping how much he loves playing in NY to Doc.
It makes for a fun discussion.
Make no mistake though, if the Yankees could EVER get Doc and it only cost them one of Hughes or Joba and lower level prospects, they would do that deal in a blink.
Be careful about Chapman. A 21 yr old that’s a little immature and that has control problems is one thing. But a 26 yr old with the same issues is probably a bad move. The Yanks would have to be very sure about his age before they signed him.
anyone ever wonder if Igawa will get out of Yankees purgatory and end up on another ML team as a “quality” 4th or 5th starter? I could certainly see this happening, although I’m assuming he’s going to want to head back to Japan.
This is lovely but realistically Halladay will be a Phillies.
“Uhh… Did you guys see Joba’s first 8 or so starts last year? Throwing 100 MPH to JD drew on his last pitch of the game in Fenway?
You want to trade THAT for a good, but 32 yr old Halladay?
For that 8 game stretch, Joba was better than Halladay. Factor in the $100+ million extension and I wouldn’t even consider it.”
Brings up a critically important question:
Why hasn’t Joba’s velocity stopped declining?
No one’s saying it but my gut is telling me the shoulder injury may be in play.
Country Club:
I’ve read that he 21 is pretty solid. Also read the immaturity stuff and saw it first hand when the Japanese beat him around the yard. Kid was whining and crying for the entire 2+ innings he survived.
Lets reel this back a bit.
First of all I doubt Halladay gets traded. He is worth a TON and Ricciardi will need a huge return for him to justify the trade. He is also owed a lot of money and will most likely demand an extension to waive his no-trade clause.
Secondly, if he DOES get traded I don’t think the Yankees will be in on it. We already have our ace. Yeah 2 would be nice but can the Yankees really afford to pay Sabathia $160 mil (or whatever the hell it is), Burnett $85 mil and Halladay $100 mil?
The Yanks are rich but I think even THEY would balk at that a little.
I think the most likely team to go after Halladay is Philadelphia. They desperately need starting pitching and can afford him. They also have a lot of high end prospects.
You keep saying he’s past his prime and you are 100% wrong.
He isn’t past his prime. He’s in his prime right now.
Forget his age, look at how he is pitching now.
The guy is throwing 90 pitch complete games. He’s right in the middle of his prime and will be for the next 3-4 years.
I didn’t say it would only cost them 40 million. I’m saying that’s how much they have coming off the books.
They have a stadium to fill and want to compete for championships.
If Doc Halladay hits the market, and it cost them one of Joba or Hughes and a bunch of other prospects who, while talented, won’t ever see consistent PT in NY, they will be right in the middle of those talks.
Franco-I hope Joba gets back to normal. He’s one of my favorite players.
Joba is damaged goods with that shoulder. His velocity fluctuates start to start, inning to inning. He’s not the 100 MPH beast that we saw in 07 blowing everyone away
Sell him high. Hughes is the goods, keep him. But if you can get Halladay, then trade Hughes or Joba.
“No one’s saying it but my gut is telling me the shoulder injury may be in play.”
Could be I guess but we saw his old velocity in the Cleveland game. He was consistently hitting 96, 97 even in the 7th inning.
I think it has more to do with his mechanics and conditioning but I really don’t know
so if the redsox are on the verge of trading for halladay – which would for all intents and purposes make them the favorite to win the WS the next 4 years (even more so than they are now) – If you’re cashman you won’t at least consider trading montero, melancon, banuelos, mccalister, dunn and about 4 more people and take on both wells and rios’s contracts to NOT have the redsox get their hands on halladay?
what about Wang + Hughes + Igawa(for free, yanks pay his contract til it ends0 for Halladay + Ext?
Halladay is going to age very well— barring injury he will be productive well into his 40s.
Like others have said, a guy like Burnett is not going to age very well. Hallday is the exact opposite. You are not going to see him decline anytime soon.
The Phillies beat writer was just on 1050.
He said they would be in on Halladay but doesn’t know if Doc wants to play in Philadelphia.
He also doesn’t know if the Phillies match up prospect-wise, with what the Jays may want.
Ultimately, its not up to JP. Its up to Doc because he has the no trade clause.
If he decides its time to leave Toronto, he, not JP decides his next destination.
That’s the wild card in all of this.
Steve B: During the WBC the NY Times reported him to be 26. Hopefully the Yanks have a private eye looking into it as we speak.
Steve B: During the WBC the NY Times reported him to be 26. Hopefully the Yanks have a private eye looking into it as we speak.
You can trade Hughes for Halladay, but the fanbase would revolt if we traded Joba for him. Joba is a fan favorite and one of the faces of the team.
CountryClub -I heard nowadays they’re much stricter about the age thing than they used to be.
Something is definitely wrong with Joba’s velocity. I know Joba could be the starter who throws 94 to 96 consistently because we all saw it last year. We also saw it disappear before our eyes. Why?
Whether you believe it’s a shoulder injury or not, it’s a very telling coincidence that the velocity dropped right after his return from the DL. Hopefully he gets it back. But I can’t say with certainty that he will.
Halladay wasnt happy with how the new stadium played this past weekend. I wonder if that would be a factor.
For those that want to join on facebook I started a Lohud Yankee Blogger site
http://www.facebook.com/ray.ca.....0459611724
This is a lot like the Santana situation, except one less year left on the contract?
Wonder if Santana wants a mulligan?
Does Halladay want to play in NY?
You figure that he would jump at the chance to finally play meaningful baseball, but not everyone is a NY guy. Like Peavy, Halladay controls his situation.
if i never saw joba start last year i would not be concerned at all about his performance this year…i believe we will see him return to his old form, stuff wise at least…joba had up and coming ace written all over him last year in the rotation…if he is healthy (big if/small if?) then he should return to form…the problem with his conditioning/stamina makes all too much sense, thats my pick
Halladay is an interesting thought but Cashman won’t be held hostage to do it.
Boston is waiting to see what gives with Lowell’s hip before making a move for a hitter. They’ll gamble with the pitching they have and hope they don’t have to give up top farm products to get a hitter.
Tampa Bay can’t and won’t spend what it takes to get Halladay.
I think there are just as many Hughes fans as there are Joba fans. I like both of them, but I would keep Hughes over Joba. When right, Joba has more electric stuff. But I think Hughes has a more complete package.
I agree with SJ. Offer Toronto their choice of Joba or Phil and then step them down from the Montero level prospects that are left in the organization.
By doing that the Yankees are setting the market for the rest of the teams in the league and you will quickly weed out pretenders from contenders.
I don’t think Theo has the stones to match that. He’ll offer Bowden in the slot that Joba/Phil would fill in our offer and that won’t cut it.
Starting the Yankee offer like that would open JP’s eyes. Both of those pitchers trump anything Philly or the Mets could offer.
The only team that could blow that out of the water willingly would be Milwaukee and they have the hammer of throwing out positional prospects of that caliber.
If the Braves put Hansen on the table they could match/beat it.
Other than that it’s about how bad Cashman and the Steins want the Hallyday.
If George were pulling the strings I would be 95% we get him.
Without the Boss, I think there’s a 20% chance at best.
Sweeney saying the starter on Thurs will be Mitre or Aceves.
Isn’t Mitre pitching today for Scranton?
A pitcher’s prime is USUALLY 25-32 or something around there.
Yes Halladay is pitching as good as ever but as the years go by it is more and more likely that he starts to decline.
Perhaps I should rephrase “past his prime”.
Roy Halladay is likely nearing the end of his prime and is on the wrong side of 30.
Look, I’m sure Cashman would jump at the chance to trade one-to-one Joba or Hughes for Halladay. I’m just saying that my preference is that he doesn’t.
I don’t want another starter on the wrong side of 30 and I don’t want another pitcher signed to a $100 mil+ contract. I don’t want to give up on Joba or Phil since I think they will be aces in the very near future.
Halladay is past his prime? How about he is in his prime. On a plateau, if you prefer.
Ascent —> Plateau —> Decline
Maybe the decline began during his last start. Maybe it begins in 4 years. Maybe he declines gradually. Maybe he decline rapidly. Who knows?
Boston is not going to just sit back and allow Toronto to negotiate with us.
As soon as we enter the bidding, so will Boston and it will become a Santana negotiation all over again, even if Boston is not serious (like with Santana).
3 months ago, there’s no way people would let go of Joba.
Ace has outperformed both Hughesie and Jobber.
Best case scenario Halladay gets traded to the NL West and the Yankees never have to face him again.
Addition by subtraction.
Like I’ve said, we’ve all seen this movie before with Santana. If Halladay is traded, he’s likely going to the NL.
Mitre is scheduled for today. But he can always be scratched.
m-For Halladay? I disagree.
“He said they would be in on Halladay but doesn’t know if Doc wants to play in Philadelphia.”
Yeesh I wouldn’t want to if I were him
Although maybe a contract extension could convince him
I’m not saying the Yankees would do it but, if they put Hughes or Chamberlain on the table in any Halladay deal talks, the Phillies can’t match up.
They don’t have anybody in their system as good as either guy.
Bastardo isn’t and his shoulder is more messed up than Joba’s.
Kyle Drabek is a nice prospect. He’s coming off TJ Surgery and isn’t in the class of Hughes or Joba.
Its a bad time for JP to go shopping, given a bad economy and teams not willing to part with what he needs to get back value in return.
The Twins got nothing of real value for Santana.
They would have gotten more if they did the Yankee deal.
If you are the Jays, and Hughes or Chamberlain was on the table for Doc, where do you go to better that offer?
Boston if they put Buchholz on the table.
LA if Billingsley or Kershaw is on the table.
LA won’t take on the money.
Boston has not shown the willingness to trade their young pitching yet.
Also, if you are the Yankees, do you really want Doc Halladay to go to Boston if it can be avoided?
Its interesting to kick around, that’s for sure.
Another thought. The Yankees might want to hold onto Hughes because he’s really taken to relief work. maybe they’re eyeing him as a possible successor to mo?
Crazy, but possible.
Pete,
I wonder if the guys will inquire on weather anyone in the Twins organization thinks that they made a mistake on the Santana trade.
You know the Bag of balls that they got for Santana!
Not that they would admit it.
m July 7th, 2009 at 4:04 pm
3 months ago, there’s no way people would let go of Joba.
————-
Sadly, that’s how many Yankee fans are.
They are the first to stick you in the Hall of Fame when you’re playing well and the first to kick you in the gut with steel toed boots when you struggle.
One year ago, a very large percentage of Yankee fans were calling Hughes a bust and tearing Cashman apart for not trading him for Santana.
“You can trade Hughes for Halladay, but the fanbase would revolt if we traded Joba for him. Joba is a fan favorite and one of the faces of the team.”
I don’t know, fan favorite or not this is Roy Halladay you are talking about trading Joba for (which won’t happen, but regardless, it’s interesting to talk about). Not many opportunities to have a guy like that pitching every 5th day for the team you root for, so I doubt Yankees fans (the “smartest baseball fans in the world”) would complain about that if it happened.
Granted, I firmly believe it won’t happen but it is definitely intriguing considering how dominant he’s been in the AL East for the last half-decade.
What’s wrong with Wells contract? Yeah, he is extremely overpaid but he is a solid player.
He would instantly become the best OF’er on the team. He can hit 20 bombs playing CF with great defense.
We can afford his contract and we’ve been looking for a permanent solution to CF for years. I’d have no problem taking his contract along with Doc’s if it would lessen the amount of top prospects we have to give up.
Crazy, but possible.
—
I think just crazy.
Mark T
Knowledgeable fans would love to have Halladay for Joba. He is the best pitcher in baseball and still in his prime.
Still pisses me off to this day that the Mets got Santana for what amounts to a pinch runner and some minor league filler.
m-No way. If they weren’t thinking that with Jobber, they’re not thinking it w/Hughes.
Most likely (most likely does not mean definite) successor to Mo RIGHT NOW is Aceves.
Give me a rotation for the next 3-4 years of CC-Doc-AJ-Hughes or Joba (whomever doesn’t go to Toronto in the deal) and either Ace or McAllister and I’ll take my chances the next few years.
Nobody matches up in the first 4 slots of that rotation in the AL for the next 3-4 years.
That’s almost unfair.
Gotta hop on a conference call…..
See you guys around gametime.
Good talk.
Discussing a Halliday trade without thinking about budgets is like discussing a military campaign without thinking about logistics. Fun but not very illuminating.
A cost controlled Joba and Hughes for another 4 years is IMO a key to the Yanks getting their payroll down out of the stratosphere while remaining competitive. Swapping out one of them for Halliday, while it could produce some net wins, would hamstring paying for the offensive replacements the Yanks will need down the road.
Wait,
No, 3 months ago Halladay wasn’t in play. Just saying that the bloom has come off Joba a bit. It’s been a rough season for him, so now there’s not that emotional attachment when Halladay’s name comes up.
You don’t trade Montero. That bat is too valuable.
I apologize to Pete about the picture. Im a big fan and would not to dis him.
Forgive me Pete. Your awesome for putting up with our garbage!
If we put Hughes or Joba on the table, especially Joba, what team can match up?
All depends if TOR wants the one super-prospect, or a couple very good ones, and a couple decent ones to re-stock the farm. We can offer the former.
What’s wrong with Wells contract? Yeah, he is extremely overpaid but he is a solid player.
—
He is paid something like 96 million over the next 5 years. His defense has completely faded in center. His bat has slowed.
He hit decline like a ton of bricks.
.318 wOBA .256/.308/.407/.715
Career low line drive percent, lots of pop ups
-33/150 UZR in Center Field.
I’d be more willing to part with Hughes for Doc than I would be Montero.
Wells’ contract is 17 million + the big luxury tax premium, making him valued at over 20 million dollars.
His production is not of a 20 million dollar player anymore.
If the Yankees ever traded Joba or Hughes for Doc that’s not a knock to Joba or Hughes.
They are trading for the best RH pitcher in the game.
If anything, its a testimony to their talent to land such a player.
As far as the fans “revolting” if Joba was traded, they would “revolt” if they traded him for Ted Lilly.
For Doc? Not happening.
If you’re Toronto, which pitcher do you insist on?
“Ace has outperformed both Hughesie and Jobber.”
Ace = 26
Jobber = 23
Yussse = 23
“Still pisses me off to this day that the Mets got Santana for what amounts to a pinch runner and some minor league filler.”
Everyone knew at the time that Bill Smith took the worst deal on the table by sending Johan to the Mets, but as a Yankees fan you should take solace in the fact that Melky and Hughes are helping the Yankees win games in 2009, they are cheap and talented and under the team’s control for a long time, and the payroll does not have Johan’s contract smothering it for another 5 years.
Wells has a terrible contract and will keep continuing to fall off a cliff. I wouldn’t come near him with a 10 foot pole.
But IF it means not giving up one of Hughes, Joba, and Montero in a deal for Halladay? Sign me up and deal with the consequences later.
I’d revolt if they traded Montero.
m-I’m still holding out hope that Joba becomes a good pitcher. A lot of calculated hope.
I will say this though: If somehow Joba’s fastball goes up from 93 to 97+ in the bullpen (which is where he’ll go when his innings cap is reached) I will no longer advocate Joba as a starter.
Of course, I doubt that is going to happen. Very much.
It WILL go up, of course. To 95-96, occasionally 97.
Yeah, Vernon Wells has fallen off a cliff on both sides of the ball.
If we need to cut payroll to accommodate Halladay, we can always trade Swisher.
Brandon-So?
Mo was 26 in 96′ wasn’t he?
Not Ace’s fault that the organization missed out on his potential.
Andrew July 7th, 2009 at 4:13 pm
“Still pisses me off to this day that the Mets got Santana for what amounts to a pinch runner and some minor league filler.”
Everyone knew at the time that Bill Smith took the worst deal on the table by sending Johan to the Mets, but as a Yankees fan you should take solace in the fact that Melky and Hughes are helping the Yankees win games in 2009, they are cheap and talented and under the team’s control for a long time, and the payroll does not have Johan’s contract smothering it for another 5 years.
———————————–
Oh no, don’t get me wrong, I was glad the Yankees didn’t break the farm for Santana. Just saying that the difference in price was ridiculous.
Add Bill Smith to my “punch in the face” list.
Who cares about payroll?
When you have a chance for Halladay-CC-Burnett-Joba/Hughes, you do it in a heartbeat. A once in a lifetime opportunity.
I think out of all the people we’ve discussed, including the pitchers, that Jesus would be the last person the Yanks would trade.
“Not Ace’s fault that the organization missed out on his potential.”
missed out on his potential?…a year a half ago the guy was toiling in mexico..its not the yankees fault they signed him and got him to the majors in a year
SJ44,
You’re right the Phillies don’t have any prospects of a Joba/Phil quality that are near the majors or in the majors.
However, I think they have enough ammunition to pull of a Halladay trade. They have several very good prospects spread through their system.
Matt,
Look a little closer at Wells’ numbers. Halladay isn’t declining yet but Wells most definitely is.
He’s at .257/.308/.407 *shudder*
He’ll be lucky to hit 15 HR this year.
His LD% is way down compared to his career. His BABIP is below his career numbers but not remarkably so. That means he’s not really unlucky, he just isn’t driving the ball.
Additionally, he has been the worst defensive CF in the league this year. -33.3 UZR/150 … ouch
Montero, not Joba or Hughes, is the dealbreaker for any Doc deal.
Doc replaces the pitcher you lose. Nobody replaces Montero.
If it was Montero or bust in a proposed Doc deal, Cashman walks away from that, IMO.
CountryClub July 7th, 2009 at 4:15 pm
I think out of all the people we’ve discussed, including the pitchers, that Jesus would be the last person the Yanks would trade.
———————–
It’s not happening. The position in most need of an heir is at catcher, and when you have it in your system, you don’t move it. Add his plus bat and it’s not even a debate.
game thread up
The Phillies have an added advantage in that it ships Doc out of the division, and the league.
But does Doc want to bat?
“Who cares about payroll?”
Well you don’t, but I’d guess the Yanks do…
RalphieD-Fair enough. Bad choice of words.
It’s not Ace’s fault that MLB missed out on his potential for so long.
Patrick,
Doc controls the deal though because of his no trade.
Suppose he doesn’t want to change league’s and play in Philadelphia? That scuttles the deal.
I can’t see Doc Halladay choosing to go to the Phillies if he thinks he can work a deal to the Yankees.
If it came to this, I’d prefer to deal Joba to the Jays rather than Hughes. Maybe it’s just the DUI thing, but Joba strikes me as a riskier guy to depend on, character-wise. Hughes seems more serious and he has already shown a lot grace and composure dealing with his various injuries, the expectations that have been heaped on him, etc. I sort of liken him Moose in terms of intangibles.
. . . liken him TO Moose . . .
You get Halliday on a long term contract, you have massive $$$ tied up in guys all getting old at the same time, don’t you?
I know Halladay controls where he goes, didn’t you see my post about that?
If the Jays work out a preliminary deal with the Phillies I’m pretty confident he’d be fine with it as long as he gets his 5 year extension.
“You get Halliday on a long term contract, you have massive $$$ tied up in guys all getting old at the same time, don’t you?”
Exactly, that’s one of the reasons I wouldn’t trade for him unless the deal was too good to pass up. In my opinion Hughes/Joba straight up is NOT too good to pass up.
You get Halladay on a 5 year contract, you have him from 32-37. How is that a bad thing?
The guy is strong enough to give you 5 great years and he would still be younger than Andy Pettitte at the end of this year.
You have Montero in tow to replace Posada down the line. Cano and Tex are young.
Three of your five starters (CC-Hughes or Joba and the 5th starter) are young. If they keep Wang, that’s an even bigger plus.
CF, whomever mans it, will be young.
Bullpen is getting younger. Pena as a super sub is young.
Seems to me, the team age-wise would have good balance to it and you upgrade your rotation with a stud.
‘Wave Your Hat
July 7th, 2009 at 4:20 pm
You get Halliday on a long term contract, you have massive $$$ tied up in guys all getting old at the same time, don’t you? ‘
Doc, CC, AJ, + 2 spots for “to be Aces”
I’ll be ok with that.
D-Train
July 7th, 2009 at 4:01 pm
Does Halladay want to play in NY?
You figure that he would jump at the chance to finally play meaningful baseball, but not everyone is a NY guy. Like Peavy, Halladay controls his situation.
————————————————————
Oh, come on, now. The Yankees haven’t played meaningful baseball in 48 hours.
What makes you think Halladay wants to pitch in Philadelphia instead of NY?
We don’t know what his preference would be and that’s the wild card.
As far as payroll, the Yankees can fit him in and still be fine, payroll-wise.
We had this same discussion about Tex and how did that work out?
If the Yankees don’t get him, money won’t be the reason. It never is when it comes to the Yankees.
ARod, Teixeira, CC, AJ and Halliday all aging at the same time. I could see 2 getting worse before their contracts were up. And, that’s assuming Halliday would take a 5 year deal.
And the budget is straightjacketed if Halliday gets a CC like deal. Much less room to work the budget down, which I believe the Yanks likely want to do, and less payroll space to replace Posada, Jeter and Rivera while getting a CF, hanging onto Cano or the equivalent.
Not saying the Yanks wouldn’t be better in the short run – they probably would – but long term I think it causes issues.
vb03, I agree with you. I said that Jesus would be the last person they would trade.
Stultus Magnus,
Given that it’s his first year back from TJ surgery, I’m not concerned.
Wave:
CC and Tex arent even 30 yet. So in your scenario there would be a 2 or 3 year stagger in the aging of those players.
“As far as payroll, the Yankees can fit him in and still be fine, payroll-wise.
We had this same discussion about Tex and how did that work out?”
Yes, because we had Hughes and Joba. Swap one of those guys out for Halliday and a CC-like contract and its a different story.
To think Ted Lilly is a Red Sox killer
and the Yankees passed on him…SAD.
My real pic
http://yankeesvoice.mlblogs.com/
Country Club-
The point is the risk is higher because at the back half of those contracts they’ll all be in riskier territory, production wise. They may be all fine through their whole contract, but IMO that’s pretty chancey.
I’d rather go with Joba and Hughes even if neither turns into Halliday, and who knows one of them might.
The three untouchables for me are Hughes, Montero, and AJack.
SJ44,
I never said that I think Halladay would pick Philly over NY. The fact is, he is on the trade market, not the free agent market. While Halladay does have the final say, he can’t force Ricciardi to go make a trade happen with NY.
If Ricciardi comes up with a deal with Philly and tells Halladay do you really think Halladay would say “Nope, go get a deal with NY or I won’t waive my no-trade clause”
He would probably jump at the chance to join a big market team and probably make another hundred million dollars.
Even if Halladay said “No, I want the Yankees.” JP could easily tell him “Too bad, I’m not trading you within our division, it’s Philly or nothing”
Also, I’m agreeing with Wave about the payroll thing.
The only way I’d want Halladay is if he were a free agent signing with us OR we could get him in a great deal. I don’t consider giving up Joba/Hughes a great deal.
Kevin
July 7th, 2009 at 3:47 pm
Uhh… Did you guys see Joba’s first 8 or so starts last year?
Throwing 100 MPH to JD drew on his last pitch of the game in Fenway?
You want to trade THAT for a good, but 32 yr old Halladay?
For that 8 game stretch, Joba was better than Halladay. Factor in the $100+ million extension and I wouldn’t even consider it
=======
Kevin,
Emphatically, no.
Not saying the Yanks wouldn’t be better in the short run – they probably would – but long term I think it causes issues.
=======
Right. I’m more interested in building a pitching-centric dynasty that can thrive and renew itself from the wellspring of home-grown arms as they move up through the system.
Halladay for Joba or Halladay for Hughes is counter to that philosophy.
And philosophically speaking, I’m not particularly interested in an entire rotation of imported 30-somethings. We already have Burnett – and CC, who fortunately is only 28.
The gestalt of the Cashman era – since he successfully freed himself from the vice-like grip of Tampa – is that we are invested in producing arms and position players.
That is now as much a part of our current identity as power lefties depositing pitches into the right-field seats has been to our history.
And although we have other high-end arms in the system, we don’t have any starters in the wings at the level of Joba and Hughes.
The likes of Marshall, DJ Mitchell, Betances, Brackman, Banuelos, Heredia, Vizcaino – aren’t even close to being able to step into a major league rotation. (The guy that was closest in terms of stuff, command and mindset – Garcia – has hit the DL yet again).
That they are not even close is significant – but even if they were: dealing Joba or Hughes would be a sellout.
They are too good, and too young, and they are too symbiotically linked to Cashman’s restoration of a debilitated farm system, to allow them to go elsewhere and realize their abilities. To suggest we could re-sign them in a few years, to me, is perverse.
Symbolically – to say nothing of competitively – dealing either would be a betrayal and any sort of short-term payoff would be, for me – and many fans I know who have been utterly re-energized by the harvest of young talent we have popping up at all levels – ultimately hollow.
As a fan, I admit openly that I am emotionally invested in Joba and Hughes succeeding HERE.
They mean something ineffable to me as a Yankee fan: I want to win, but I want to win WITH THEM.