Items in the news
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Jul 08, 2009 
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Item No. 1: Umpires change their story. Now John Hirschbeck is coming to the defense of Marty Foster in Derek Jetergate. The story they’re peddling is that Foster told Jeter, “The ball beat you, and I had him tagging you.” Jeter said Sunday after the blown call that Foster told him the tag didn’t matter.
Reaction: Zzzz. It’s over and done with. Let MLB deal with their shoddy umpires.
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Item No. 2: Kevin Millar doesn’t like the new Stadium. Here’s what Millar said about the new Stadium to Jim Duquette and Seth Everett on MLB Home Plate on XM and Sirius:
“I’m not a big fan of it. Nothing pops there, nothing pops. … It’s a beautiful scoreboard but they have the radar gun readings at the very top of the scoreboard with the pitch count. Fans want to know how hard the pitcher’s throwing, for instance. You come to the game, you want to see, ‘Yeah, Brandon League’s on the mound, he’s throwing 90-what?’ You don’t want to have to look around the stadium to find it, and this is at the very top, a very little scene up there with your miles per hour where most stadiums have them above the dugouts on the second tier of the second deck so you can kind of see it easier. You know, it was hard to read what the guy’s hitting for the batting average. It was tough to find certain things. … I wish they would’ve pulled the monuments up so you could see the monuments. I mean, they’re behind center field and it’s kind of blocked off with the hitter’s eye so you don’t even see them. At least in the old stadium, left center, you kind of saw them a little bit, glimpsed through over there from the bullpen area, and when you’d hit a home run to left center they’d bounce in the monuments.”
Reaction: Like him or not, Millar is exactly right. The scoreboard needs work and Monument Park belongs where it can be seen.
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Item No. 3: Manny being a cheapskate. During his minor-league assignment, Manny Ramirez did not purchase dinner for his teammates, going against tradition that well-paid big leaguers should spring for food as a goodwill gesture.
Reaction: Are you surprised? Manny is the same guy who hasn’t contributed money to his high school team in Washington Heights. The more you find out about Manny, you realize that the happy-go-lucky persona was an act. He’s a bum.
Much we as Yankees fans just have to hate Millar, I’ve had occasion to hear him on XM in the past, and darn if he isn’t a charming fellow and I found I liked him. His criticism is constructive, at least, and not of the “it’s a dump” variety. I also agree with much of what he said, though when we went, overall, I loved a lot about the place. Needs some tweaking, though.
Manny. What can anyone say about him anymore? I don’t l like him. I’m glad the Yankees got Teixeira, and one of the reasons is because they didn’t even have to think about getting Manny.
The umpires? I believe Jeter first.
I haven’t seen this complaint about the scoreboard, so maybe I’m the only one who noticed- but on the outfield level board behind the fence, the “pos” indicator for the batter is about as dorky as you can find. rF? Who designed THAT?
Manny Manny Manny
Re: Manny…..
So, why did ESPN celebrate his return as a conquering hero?
Why are other members of the baseball media not raking him over the coals the way they did Arod, Clemens, Bonds, etc?
Double standard, that’s why.
Its why the so many people have such a hard time with the selective morality re: PED use the sports media uses these days.
Its a joke. Not as much of a joke as Marty Foster and his brethren of incompetent ML umpires but, a joke just the same.
Manny is socially inept. He is truly an idiot savent. I’ve heard stories of where he has stuffed his glove box with large sums of money and has had uncashed salary checks sitting on his coffe table that he is oblivious to.
The comments from Millar? meh. If he wants to nit pick on where the radar gun readings are by all means. The closest he’ll ever get to playing for the Yanks is when he visits.
He wants his Homerun balls to rattle around in monument park? Take some roids and maybe he can reach them where they are now.
I recently re-read that New Yorker piece on Manny.
They wanted Manny to pay for some lights. Apparently Manny hasn’t ever returned to Washington
Heights.
The peculiar thing is that AROd is very good in things like that. He embraces his past.
ARod gets creamed for PED’s. Admits it in front the world. (Yes I know, only after he was outed but still it was the right thing)
Manny gets a pass after earning a 50 gamer.
Why?
Is it because nobody expects anything from Manny?
these umps have to be disciplined. when someone is bad at their job, they get fired. it’s how it is. that game and the one with the orioles and sox last week were two of the worst called games i have ever seen. managers should just start flooding selig with complaints until he has to notice.
what is ‘meh’?
The design of putting pitch counts, pitch speeds, and balls and strikes scattered high and far around the stadium was a deliberate decision to allow our fans to enjoy scanning the new stadium and seeing all it has to offer. As with the obstructed view seats, it encourages our fans to move about the stadium to watch the game while also allowing them to participate in several unscale dining and merchanising experiences. We feel that most of our real fans appreciate these aspects as we focus on making their stay in the new stadium as commercial…um..I mean comfortable as possible.
Albatross! Albatross! Come get your albatross!
The funny thing is re the umpires that if you read Jeter’s lips when he came back to argue you see h e says what do you mean he doesnt have to tag.
Re Manny as soon as saw the quote where he said I was only concerned about myself that is all I needed to see
Millar is preaching to the choir here. The Stadium will need some modifications in the offseason, and I’m sure the Yankees brass is listening to the fans.
1) Agreed
2) Agreed
3) Agreed
“I’m sure the Yankees brass is listening to the fans.”
That was sarcasm right?
The manny issue is sad to hear, but not surprising.
live alone….
Manny = not surprising.
Manny’s getting the hero treatment simply because he won 2 WS as a Red Sox player and most the media that covers him are Red Sox fans at heart.
Arod gives a lot to charity and involves himself in community efforts, admitted what he did (to a point) and is crucified.
Manny actually gets caught, suspended, won’t admit what he did and is a great guy.
It’s all because of all the apologizing the Red Sox media had to do for him when he played for them with their “manny being manny” garbage.
If they turn on him fiercely now, they turn on themselves and in essence the teams that broke the curse and repeated.
Instead, he’s a funny dopey thuggy lovable scoundrel who we’re all supposed to love and Arod is an arch villain trying to bring down baseball.
Write that article Pete.
I was listening to Colin Cowherd(I know, why?) yesterday on the radio and he was talking about about a nice, fun guy Manny is. Oh yeah, what an nice fella he is.
I wish the Yankees could have just made the new field look exactly like the old one, except for the bigger scoreboard. Old Monument Park was perfect, and I loved the black seats in CF and the bright blue walls.
The field at the old stadium was still among the most beautiful in baseball. They didn’t need to change a thing in that regard.
miggs
July 8th, 2009 at 12:49 pm
what is ‘meh’?
I was wondering where this came from too.
Just another way to express disinterest?
noticed last night That Cisco wasn’t wearing batting gloves
Item #1:
What else is Marty Foster going to say? “I’m totally incompetent and don’t even bother looking to see if a tag is made.” The umps are a joke. They get worse and worse every year.
Item #2:
Millar is an idiot. I don’t care what he thinks.
Item #3:
Manny is a scumbag. Don’t care about him either.
Millar being Millar, always a comment. I imagine he normally has a lot of time on his hands watching from the bench anyway. He’s also the guy that essentially said Hughes had no talent last year. I wanted Hughes to have an opportunity to shut him up during this home stand. He seems like he would be a good and a fun teamate, but his opinion to me or what stupid thing he has to say is about as newsworthy as hearing Schilling posted something on his blog. Cowboys Up
“Just another way to express disinterest?”
Yup
It is pretty funny how the media treats Manny practically as a conquering hero returning while ARod, who actually offered a mea culpa, no matter what people thought of it, faced a lynch mob.
manny is a cheapskate. he’s afraid he’s going to go bankrupt by not paying for one lousy meal to a minorleague roster.
Manny is all about the money. Say this for him, he will probably never go broke and probably sleeps on a mattress full of cash. They said in Boston he would never go out to dinner with any teamates either concerned he would get stuck with the bill. One thing I will say, he grew up with not a lot of money so he does value it. Most of these guys blow thru it quite quickly. Him being a great guy is another story, maybe Torre will throw him under the bus in his new book in a few years.
Agreed, I’d rather talk/lister/read about the umps than complaints about the stadium.
They can’t make major changes/do major renovations until the off-season anyway.
No matter what that clown Lon Trost says, changes will be made. The question is can people stop complaining about it?
I understand that people are giving their opinion because it’s their first rodeo there, but it’s still getting old. And people love to bring up the $1.5 billion. To the Yankees, it’s just a number.
I agree, mel –
I’m almost willing to read through (and not contribute to) hours and hours of Halladay speculation than go through any more “Opinions on the Stadium”…that horse is dead, stop beating it.
Who cares what Millar says. He’s scrub. Millar who?
As far as MP; it’s in CF because in the OYS not the renovated one, that’s the place it was in. MP being in the open is relatively new. Yankees did that in the late nineties/early 2000′s.
The whole design was based on a little bit of the OYS with the RYS. And MP is not moving. It would require a renovation for that to happen. They spent tons of money on it too. Lots of blue granite from Finland I believe. So they’re not tearing that apart.
But I expect them to push back the fences in the off season. They’ll lose some money but if they want to slow the HRs down they have to do it.
Is the horse really dead? Have the Yankees asked for input from their fans? Just curious.
^ I’m not sure Manny values the money, John – there are stories of undeposited paychecks from months gone by just lying in his locker. So eh. He’s just a bit selfish, inconsiderate and dopey.
56Bomber
July 8th, 2009 at 1:14 pm
Is the horse really dead? Have the Yankees asked for input from their fans? Just curious.
—————-
yes they have – remember the focus groups etc Pete posted about earlier?
Look at this the cost of the new stadium in Florida makes the cost of Yankee Stadium see like a drop in the bucket
http://www.miamiherald.com/new.....31885.html
“Obviously, Palmeiro came out with a positive, but it’s still a tough game. So I respect him,”
-Kevin Millar
rishi – i guess i missed that… good to know.
john -
I’ve read Manny often doesn’t even cash his paychecks. I’ve read he kept thousands of dollars in cash in his glove compartment. This does not sound like a man to whom money means anything at all. It sounds like it has no real value to him.
“The ball beat you, and I had him tagging you.”
I always sort of assumed this to be the case anyway. Ball beat him by a country mile and the umpire wasn’t in great position to see whether there was a tag or not. Certainly if he had seen that Jeter was not tagged, he would not have called him out. Fact is, because of where he was he couldn’t tell. Sadly, that lends itself to guessing and the far more obvious guess is out since the ball was there so much sooner.
56 Bomber,
Some of the better package holders were invited to participate in a survey, so yes, I do think they asked for input.
And even if they didn’t ask the fans, NYY fans aren’t shy about their opinions. And even if nary a single soul wrote or called the Yankees, the Yankees read LoHud and have read complaint after complaint.
Rishi,
We need a new topic. Even Roy Halladay talk has fizzled.
http://www.beyondtheboxscore.c.....-computers
for those into numbers and metrics – attempts to breakdown the cost of blown umpire calls
I’m trying here, mel – looking for articles (on my “lunch break” as we type)
I am a little confused about MIllar’s comments with regard to searching for the radar reading. correct me if I am wrong but anytime you go to a stadium for the first time you have to search for where all that info is. However once you know where it you know where to look. Seems fairly simple to me. Is h e saying once he found out where it is he couldnt remember where to look again?
The first game I went to at the new stadium it did take me a few minutes to find out where all the stuff was pitch count, k count, the count etc but once i found it never had to figure it out again.
Here’s a link to the New Yorker article on Manny. It’s a couple of years old and a bit long but a good read.
I remember it talking about how Manny doesn’t like to stay on his cell phone very long because he’s afraid he’ll use up his minutes.
http://www.newyorker.com/repor.....ct_mcgrath
From previous thread:
Joba’s loss in velocity is mechanics related and conditioning related. Its not arm or shoulder related.
You get your power with your legs. His legs aren’t in the shape they need to be.
======================
SJ, can you explain this? I’m serious, I don’t understand it. The theory would make sense if it were spring training, but it’s halfway through the season and Joba’s legs should be fine by now (BTW, I don’t think Wang is a decent comparison because he was out with surgery and was told not work on his legs, and then was on the DL again.).
Second, if it were mechanics, then wouldn’t the Yankee coaches say: “you are doing this wrong and therefore you lack velocity, adjust it and you will be fine”?
I agree that mechanics can contribute to loss of velocity but would it be as drastic to take off 5 mph on average?? To me that seems like a steep drop-off. I’d agree if he “didn’t have his legs” AND the mechanics were off, but why would he not be conditioned this far into the season? And if it were mechanics wouldn’t his velocity be up more often then it’s down? I.e., wouldn’t we have seen a few more games where he was throwing harder?
It just doesn’t make any sense to me. I don’t know how you can say it’s not shoulder or injury related at all, unequivocally.
But if you can explain it beyond the matter-of-fact statements then maybe I’d be a believer. Again, I’m curious here, not sarcastic.
Who knows Manny is still the same guy that listed the used grill on Ebay.
But of course if Torre says he’s a great guy and a teamate he must be haha. Until his next book.
Some of the many stories are from the Sox too who are notorious at throwing guys under the bus when they trade them or move them out of town. He’s not the first, deserved or not. I am sure some of these other guys have some lovely stories too.
http://www.slate.com/id/2222246/
article on Manny and the reaction he has been receiving
Scoring question.
Had Jeter been ruled safe on that play, would he have been credited with a steal or would the Jays 3B (Rolen?) be credited with an error for blowing an obvious out?
Baseball Rules Quiz:
http://www.rulesofbaseball.com/quiz1.html
how well did you do?
Leg strength can absolutely be a big part of it.
Don’t people remember how the weakness in Wang’s legs was a primary reason for his lack of velocity back in April.
He was throwing 89-91 MPH in April but he was throwing 94-95 MPH last year and at his best.
Basically joba is a little chunkier than he used to be and needs a better off-season conditioning program to get in shape. Felix hernandez had the same problem 2 years ago and he lost 25lbs and hasn’t looked back since
Steve B,
Steal. Only error would be a dropped ball or ball thrown away, no?
re: manny. I think some people underestimate what growing up poor does to some people and affects their behaviors & habits when they do come into money. As for manny? I’m not going to judge him. I reserve that for people who take swipes unnecessarily at others.
I definitely think Pete has highlighted some flaws in the stadium for sure. The radar thing is on the top corner of the video board I think and small. The OF scoreboard manual wall was a nice idea, but you can’t really see it as the numbers are small and obviously not in full view of the stadium. Actually one of the biggest flaws which I am shocked out, the sound system is pretty terrible. Possibly because it is less enclosed overall with the tiered seating, but that needs an upgrade as well. Overall they will figure it out and the fans will make the new stadium their own over time. I actually like the new ballpark minus some of the flaws that need to be corrected.
Phil struggled when he returned from leg injuries. When he regained his footing, he pitched better.
It just doesn’t make any sense to me. I don’t know how you can say it’s not shoulder or injury related at all, unequivocally.
But if you can explain it beyond the matter-of-fact statements then maybe I’d be a believer. Again, I’m curious here, not sarcastic.
—————
I don’t think it’s shoulder related because Joba can and does dial it up on occasion when he wants to.
He just doesn’t throw mid-90s all the time.
If his shoulder was structurally damaged, he probably wouldn’t be able to dial it up at all.
Manny is a great hitter but average less than average player removing the bat stats. He is also a lousy professional. He is the exact type of player I never wish to see anywhere around the Yankee org. He is a quitter period and should in my opinion as humble as it is be banned from mlb if for no other reason than he is a quitter.
Giuseppe Franco July 8th, 2009 at 1:25 pm
Leg strength can absolutely be a big part of it.
Don’t people remember how the weakness in Wang’s legs was a primary reason for his lack of velocity back in April.
He was throwing 89-91 MPH in April but he was throwing 94-95 MPH last year and at his best.
================
Yes, of course, BUT Wang was told NOT to work on his legs. And he was put on the DL again earlier this year, I can see why he would be behind.
Joba has been on the team, making starts since the season began, and the Yankees didn’t shut down any conditioning. Even if he did NO conditioning during the off-season, unlikely, he still should be ahead of Wang who was shut down last year in May/June.
He should be much further along than Wang was. I don’t think you can compare the two.
Why does Joba not have his legs? Explain that please.
m July 8th, 2009 at 1:28 pm
Phil struggled when he returned from leg injuries. When he regained his footing, he pitched better.
————–
Absolutely. Hughes rarely threw his fastball last year higher than 92 MPH.
But he came back this season and was throwing 93-94 MPH consistently. That was before he was moved to the pen.
rover,
Really? Well, you’d probably have to ban Greinke & Bedard as well.
maybe we can vote guys out of baseball, like one a year. Who’d be the first to go? Don’t say manny, because he’s far from the least popular player.
I think Papelbon would go first.
If his shoulder was structurally damaged, he probably wouldn’t be able to dial it up at all.
==========
I disagree. He could dial it up, not consistently though, which is what is happening.
He should be throwing mid-90s consistently, but he’s not.
When you start out ST out of shape, you literally play catch up all year.
What happens is, you only run between starts rather than doing any strength training because you don’t want to wear down in between starts.
While he runs a lot between starts, and that’s good for endurance, I bet his leg strength isn’t what it was last year.
That’s why off-season conditioning is so important.
Mechanically, Joba has a tendency to spin, rather than drive, off his right foot. When that happens, you aren’t getting leg drive and a downward plane to the plate.
That costs you velocity and command.
They work with him on it all the time. Its one of those things he always has to be aware of when he pitches.
When you are out there in a game, its really hard to self correct, especially for a young pitcher, when things go awry.
Its all part of the development process.
When your conditioning is not up to snuff, its really hard to repeat your mechanics on a consistent basis.
I think that’s his biggest problem this year.
Its not health related or the Yankees wouldn’t be running him out there.
He has passed every shoulder strength test you can give to an athlete. That’s not the problem.
It happens a lot with young, talented guys. They sometimes think, now that they are in the bigs, you can take a little easier. You can’t do that.
Its just something he has to learn from this year and work much harder this off-season.
If he does, I think consistent velocity, command and mechanics will be there for him.
Phil struggled when he returned from leg injuries. When he regained his footing, he pitched better.
===========
Did Joba pop a hamstring that I don’t know about?
Hughes was tentative and working his way back. Did Joba have a leg injury?
No, it’s understandable that it may have taken Hughes some time to get velocity back. But with him we are talking 1-3 mph. With Joba the difference is 5 to 6.
Doesn’t add up.
What a great guy that Manny is. Pretends to be injured last year. Asks out of his first game back, go watch the video. Purposely gets tossed, cause he had enough. Yep great guy.
I understand Millar’s point, but it’s pretty funny that he used Brandon League as an example. I know everyone is wondering what he’s throwing….
Its just something he has to learn from this year and work much harder this off-season.
If he does, I think consistent velocity, command and mechanics will be there for him.
=================
Well, I hope he does that. Thanks for the input.
Yes, of course, BUT Wang was told NOT to work on his legs. And he was put on the DL again earlier this year, I can see why he would be behind.
Joba has been on the team, making starts since the season began, and the Yankees didn’t shut down any conditioning. Even if he did NO conditioning during the off-season, unlikely, he still should be ahead of Wang who was shut down last year in May/June.
He should be much further along than Wang was. I don’t think you can compare the two.
Why does Joba not have his legs? Explain that please.
——————–
Some of it is speculation, but perhaps it’s a combination of a lot of things.
Maybe it was immaturity and a lack of work ethic during the offseason. Don’t forget; the kid did have a rough offseason with the DUI and his mother’s arrest. Perhaps he was distracted by some of that stuff.
We seem to forget the kid is 23 yrs old and human like anyone else. We saw a seasoned veteran like Damon have a rough offseason a couple of years ago and he came to camp out of shape as well.
I suggested this yesterday and nobody responded to it but I’ll make it again.
Is it out of the realm of possibility that the Yanks screwed up Joba’s offseason rehab as well?
They did admit to telling Wang not to do his normal offseason regimen and told Bruney the exact same thing. Bruney now has had elbow issues all season.
Is it possible that the Yanks told Joba to ease up on his offseason regimen because of the shoulder problem he had twice last year?
It’s not an accusation. But I wouldn’t rule it out and I wouldn’t be surprised if we found out next year that that was the case.
On point 3, I work next to the hotel where the Dodgers are staying while in town and saw Manny driving from the hotel yesterday to the game. He was stopped at a light on Sixth Avenue and had about 20 kids trying to get him to roll down the windows to sign autographs. You would think a guy in his hometown coming off a 50 game suspension would try to build some goodwill with fans, but Manny pretended they weren’t even there as his 3 friends in the car took pictures of the scene. You’re spot on – he’s a bum.
Stultus,
Oh, I’m in agreement that Joba’s got issues.
We just don’t know what it is.
Could be one or more of:
1. Lingering shoulder issue
2. Fear of risking shoulder injury
3. Conditioning
4. Complacency
5. Personal problems (DUI, mother’s legal troubles)
But you’re right, even if Joba was dialing it back, he should be sitting a little higher with his velocity.
nyp_joelsherman: #Jays GM Ricciardi tells me he wouldn’t allow acquiring team a window to do extension with Halladay.
I’m so sick of reading about how “awful” the new stadium is. I love it more and more every time I go. Monument Park is fine. I’m not a huge fan of the batter’s eye restaurant, but I never sit in the bleachers and the people spending $5 know what they’re getting. I’m sure the revenue from the restaurant is greater than that of the entire bleachers section.
Who cares about Manny? A-Rod is a class act (publicly), but will never get the recognition. It won’t change.
The fact is with Halladay on the trade block Joba should start to show what he’s capable of very soon. I think he would want to eliminate his name from any talks by pitching like his old self.
Weisdog -
I don’t like Manny. But he was on his way to work. You don’t really think he should have stopped to sign autographs in the middle of NYC traffic, do you?
I have a serious question that’s a little off-topic. If Alfredo Aceves is starting on Thursday, and the Yankees don’t need a 5th starter again until July 21, does that mean that Aceves won’t pitch at all until then?
Or do you think the Yankees are just using Aceves for this one start until they can get Mitre or whomever else lined up to make the rest of the starts until Wang returns?
So Burrell hits a 2 run walkoff shot to beat the Blue Jays.
Losing pitcher? Brandon League :anger:
trying again
:angry:
If Joba came into the season with a poorly maintained lower half, then he pretty much isn’t going to be able to strengthen it enough during the season. Leg problems for pitchers during the season are a big deal because you can only gain so much strength, and most of the time you’re just battling muscle attrition because you have less time to focus on your core.
Wang started out with NO conditioning after injury, so getting to a normal level (and not peak) has let his velocity creep up 2 mph.
Joba might have come in just below average conditioning(speculation) which means he can still get the fastball up there, but not consistently. And he might be around average now that he is into the season, but he really should be above average or peak.
You do all your heavy work outs in the offseason and spring training, once the season begins you are just trying to maintain and grind out the season. A lot of guys lose weight as the season progresses, its why a lot of players fade in the second half. You can’t be expected to destroy the gym during a 162 game season, some guys just can’t do it.
Not everyone is an A-rod or Manny.
SJ is dead on regarding his assessment of Joba and leg strength.
If you don’t put in the work during the off-season, its very tough to build it up during the season.
Roger Clemens may be damaged goods and a steroid cheat, but one thing that stood out to me regarding his workout regimen was the emphasis he had on strength training, specifically his legs and core.
That being said, its frustrating to think that Joba didn’t take this seriously during the off-season. It also causes me to question the Yankees strength and conditioning coaches, because I wonder why on earth he wasn’t put on a program, and why the coaches didn’t touch base with him periodically during the off-season to monitor his progress.
SJ44-The Yankees sent Youuuuse to Athletes Performance in the offseason. Do you think maybe they should send Jobber on a field trip there(or a similar type place) next offseason to get him in shape?
http://www.athletesperformance.com/
5. Ricciardi prefers to keep Halladay out of the AL East, but said, “In a year and a half he is a free agent and could sign with an AL East team and I have to face him anyway for five more years. So I will just make the best trade possible if we make a trade.”
6. Ricciardi said that Halladay has provided a long list of places he would not be willing to play, but the Toronto GM would not say if either New York club was on that list.
http://blogs.nypost.com/sports.....on_ha.html
Yeah I hope Joba turns it around too………in Toronto.
Also,
Wang going to the DL again could be a blessing in disguise, as it will hopefully give him not only a chance to stregthen and rehab his should, but he should be able to continue to work on his legs and core so he can come back strong in the second half.
And to imagine that some of the posters on here wanted Manny to be a Yankee in the of season ?
Oh, Rishi. Thanks for that. #5 is a good point that no one here brought up. Guess we’re not gm material.
Wouldn’t it just be easier to make a list of where he’d be willing to go?
“Not everyone is an A-rod or Manny.”
Same with Clemens, Bonds, etc. No one’s questioning how hard they worked, but a normal human body doesn’t have the capacity to handle that level of stress.
Well that’s what steroids lets you do, isn’t it? Let you work out non-stop without feeling the pain?
“I have a serious question that’s a little off-topic. If Alfredo Aceves is starting on Thursday, and the Yankees don’t need a 5th starter again until July 21, does that mean that Aceves won’t pitch at all until then?”
Safe to assume he doesn’t pitch at all in Disneyland this weekend. Really depends on who they intend to use as a #5 after the break. If it’s Aceves, I doubt we see much of him in that 1st series after the break.
Manny was signed to a 2 year deal with the Dodgers right???
He doesn’t need to be on his good baseball behavior until next year
RS,
If they want to stay with Aceves, then maybe sending him down to Scranton (not to PNC, though) to stretch out? Otherwise I would do regular bullpens and simulate games on his pitching days.
CC pitches on Sunday, and our first game back is Friday. So, I would go CC, AJ, Joba, Aceves, Pettitte. Only CC doesn’t miss a beat.
SJ- You said Romine is the 3 or 4th best catching prospect in the Yanks org. How would you rank them?
“He doesn’t need to be on his good baseball behavior until next year”
He had no guarantees about his future last season and he still acted like a horses rump.
Pete, regardless of the topic, at least you show the courage of your convictions. People may not always agree with you, but I applaud your honesty and willingness to expose yourself to criticism.
“I’m not sure Manny values the money – there are stories of undeposited paychecks from months gone by just lying in his locker….”
what the hell?!!?! – somehow i don’t think on the first of every month some pimple faced girl from HR is walking around the clubhouse handing out “live” checks…what does Manny do then walk up to the nearest check cashing place and asks for “all 20 dollar bills” to cash his 1.8 million dollar monthly check?
i would think the players agents would get them some sort of direct deposit plan set up…
look at it this way..manny just lost like 8 million dollars during his suspension – he probably wasn’t too happy having to go to a one horse town to get a few swings in – he’s not much of a social butterfly (ala swisher) and just decided that he’d rather stay in his hotel room then have to pay for some kids super value meal that he’s probably never going to see again….its his money he can do what he likes or doesn’t like with it….leave the guy alone – don’t hate on him because he handed the yankees their lunch every time they faced him…
Team option, but they’ll pick it up. He’d have to kill someone for it not to be picked up.
Haha Pete, I think we knew Manny was a bum years ago, although bum is a pretty nice way to say it, scum bag may fit better. Great hitter definitely, but that isn’t everything.
I seem to remember him spitting at Yankees fans, or just regular new yorkers even in the late 90′s…can anyone recall that?
Doreen,
First of all, let’s define “work”. Teachers, policemen and doctors work. Manny plays a game for a living and gets paid gobs of money to do it because fans watch the game. Many players sign at the “office” all the time. If you saw the scene yesterday he wasn’t in the middle of traffic at all. What was most disturbing was not the refusal to sign but the ignoring everyone. A simple wave to 20 kids wouldn’t have killed him.
sab,
The story of the paychecks came from a Bill Simmons’ story, I think the source was David Ortiz.
Wonder if the “What do they do about Aceves?” question is answered Thursday thru Saturday when they will likely need 10-12 innings from an Aceves-less bullpen.
If Joba is still with the Yankees, I bet they send him to Athletes Performance in the off-season.
Every player is given instructions at the end of the year of what their off-season conditioning goals need to be heading into ST.
These guys are adults and not children. Teams can’t babysit them.
You come into camp and they assess where you are conditioning-wise.
The rumor mill was full of stories this spring that Joba was not in good shape coming into ST. If that’s true, and I believe it is, given what I’ve seen of his work so far this year, you can’t catch up in season on conditioning.
Its one of those things the kid has to learn the hard way.
I like Joba. I think he’s a real good kid. Talking about including him in a Halladay trade is a credit, and not a knock, to Joba. Doc is the best pitcher in baseball. There is no shame to be traded for a guy like that.
I also think he is stubborn, tough to catch and tougher to coach. Doesn’t make him a bad guy, because he isn’t.
It just makes him more of a challenge to handle than say, Hughes, Aceves, Coke, etc.
Everybody is different. Some guys need a hug. Some guys need a kick in the butt. Some guys need to continue to fail in order to make adjustments.
If I was JP and engaging the Yankees, even though Hughes is having a better year, the guy I would want is Joba.
Joba may turn out to be a kid that never gets over the hump.
His conditioning and stubborness may be his downfall.
OR, he may grow up this off-season and realize his potential.
Either way, his upside is larger than Phil’s, IMO.
To that end, JP has to get at least one pitcher in a Doc deal that has a shot to be GREAT. Joba or Phil, moreso than Bastardo and Drabek in Philly, fit that criteria. So does Clay Buchholz, for that matter.
That’s why I don’t count out the Yankees or Red Sox in this. They each have a pitcher (2 in the Yankees case) who have the chance to be GREAT. No other team really has that and can afford to pay Doc at the same time.
Pete Manny dropped over 7 mil for his forced(by MLB) 50 day vacation,the brother is broke.
Ha Kevin Millar trying to get his name in the paper, good luck playing all that first base on a toron to team plunging to the bottom of the division, he has become mr irrelevant
m
July 8th, 2009 at 1:55 pm
Oh, Rishi. Thanks for that. #5 is a good point that no one here brought up. Guess we’re not gm material.
Wouldn’t it just be easier to make a list of where he’d be willing to go?
—————————
there is a reason we all make pretend decisions using fake names
“Let you work out non-stop without feeling the pain?”
Only magical steroids let you not feel pain.
Funny how guys become irrelevant when you don’t like what they say.
m
July 8th, 2009 at 2:00 pm
Team option, but they’ll pick it up. He’d have to kill someone for it not to be picked up.
—–
I believe it is a 2 way option so Manny can opt out if he feels he can get a better longer deal out there.
m: I never knew you had anger issues.
M – it doesn’t matter if bill simmons or david ortiz wrote/ said the story – there are no “live” 1.8 million dollar checks floating around the locker room anywhere – this isn’t the 1930′s – and i would venture to say that in 1930 i’m sure they had someone walk the checks to the players back and deposit them…
maybe GB7 can add some insight as to what happened in 1930 when checks were handed out…
GB7 …no disrespect…
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....index.html
Totally embarrassing. Do we need a Freedom of Movement Amendment?
Regarding Rishi’s link to Sherman’s talk with Riccardi:
Riccardi not allowing a window to negotiate an extension is a deal breaker.
Sorry JP but I have to pull Joba off the table. Now you get Kennedy or Igawa!
lol, nick
That was my next try, but I figured you guys got the idea that we couldn’t hit one out of the park off of League, but Burrell can?!?
“Wonder if the “What do they do about Aceves?” question is answered Thursday thru Saturday when they will likely need 10-12 innings from an Aceves-less bullpen.”
That’s exactly what I’m getting at. If Aceves starts Thursday and doesn’t start again until the 21, the Yankees will go through 7 games without him appearing either as a starter or as a reliever. Considering he has the best ERA on the staff, by far, that seems like a pretty big waste.
A’s DFA’d LHP Dana Eveland.
“Yeah I hope Joba turns it around too………in Toronto.”
So thats it, huh?
Just like that.
The fanbase has given up on Joba and wants to send him to the wolves or in this case, Toronto.
Its amazing how keeping our young studs and farm system blue chips go straight out the window in a matter on months.
Well, I guess thats the reality here which is the mentality here.
Good post, Pete.
Poor kid, but what’re the A’s thinking? The kid was throwing 88-91.
All kinds of ways to work around that.
The team that gets him will have some kind of understanding in place or they won’t trade for the guy.
JP is doing the smart thing. Come out blazing with big demands. You can always move off them.
If you come out meek, you get hosed. Kind of like the coach that starts out tough and eases off the throttle as his team adjusts to him.
JP can’t be meek here. I would do the same thing he is doing.
In the end, it doesn’t matter what anybody says. It matters what the final deal shapes up to be.
Remember when Bill Smith was going to get 5 A List prospects for Santana? How did that turn out.
Ignore the public pronouncements because that’s all window dressing. Just sit back and see how it plays out.
Brandon… I’M AWESOME !
July 8th, 2009 at 2:11 pm
A’s DFA’d LHP Dana Eveland.
———————-
From last night? I didn’t think he was that bad
m
July 8th, 2009 at 2:08 pm
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....index.html
Totally embarrassing. Do we need a Freedom of Movement Amendment?
=============
I’ve met that dude. He’s friends with my girlfriend’s neighbors. I never asked him about it though. “Were ya wasted, man!??”
It was stupid to restrict movement during God Bless America. The cry to remove hats every time some anthem is played also gets my blood boiling. That happens everywhere though.
“A’s DFA’d LHP Dana Eveland.”
Good thing the Yankees don’t similarly punish their pitchers for losing to the Red Sox.
Now Hirschbeck and Foster need to be fired.
They really need to stop playing GBA during Yankee games. It’s played.
Sab – here…read for yourself:
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn.....page=manny
No apology necessary.
Steve B,
We’d have no staff.
SJ,
It’s weird, I’ve seen zero resistance from Doc during the “process”. Not even the patent, “I love it here, the fans are great. I hope we can work something out…”
“The cry to remove hats every time some anthem is played also gets my blood boiling.”
Land of the free and all, eh? I’m with you on that one.
Dr. Cox-
If Joba had gone 8 innings his last time out, given up 2 runs and struck out six, people here wouldn’t want to deal him. But he didn’t, so…
And don’t worry. Despite the heart-pounding excitement around here, the Yanks aren’t going to get him. You’ll get to watch both Joba and Phil grow up in pinstripes.
m,
Because he knows he’s gone. He has to be. At this point, if JP doesn’t deal him now, the price goes down and not up.
Barring a sudden change of heart, he’s gone by the deadline.
Only question will be to whom.
Its amazing how keeping our young studs and farm system blue chips go straight out the window in a matter on months.
Well, I guess thats the reality here which is the mentality here.
=================
For the record, I don’t want Halladay and I don’t want to trade Hughes or Joba. You have two guys who are young and will most likely be good ball players, maybe one of them is “great” in the end. That versus another long-term contract with somebody who’s already 32. Sign another 6-7 year deal worth 130 million and hope that he’s slightly better than league average after 3 years.
I don’t want that.
When Manny was with the Red Sox -
he would occasionally go out for drink and/or food with some of the bat boys and team security.
Naturally, the guys would all want to go with Manny and hang out with him.
Not only did Manny not pay for the other guys, he would make them pay for HIS stuff.
He’s been cheap for a long time.
But making guys who get $10/hr pay for your stuff… that’s just a jerk.
The yankees should use Hughes, Joba, and Ace in the bullpen on throw days when they get to the rotation.
They all have experience in the pen and it will help keep them sharp. Let em air out between starts for 15-25 pitches and have em finish whatever they have leftover in the pen.
I liked when they did it with Wang and Pettitte in years prior. I think more teams ought to do that.
““A’s DFA’d LHP Dana Eveland.”
Good thing the Yankees don’t similarly punish their pitchers for losing to the Red Sox.”
That’s why the A’s are always top notch pitching.
//Millar is preaching to the choir here. The Stadium will need some modifications in the offseason, and I’m sure the Yankees brass is listening to the fans.//
It’s pretty sad they the bone-heads who built it in the first place couldn’t get it right. They must have been too busy digging up Red Sox shirts throughout the new stadium.
So far that worked out good for them: 0-8 against the Sox. I’m beginning to think they missed the one buried under the pitcher’s mound. Oops….did I say that?
Sox will get Halliday. And when they do…..it definitely seals the Yankees’ coffin for the next several years!!!!!!
because all that money they went out and spent last winter got them second place.
“Sign another 6-7 year deal worth 130 million and hope that he’s slightly better than league average after 3 years”
I’d like to think his age would allow for something more like 4 years and an option at Sabathia money. Pretty fair argument can be made for giving him that money thru age 36. After that, it gets a little hairy IMO.
MLB will brush the whole ump stupididty and incompetence under the rug and do nothing.
they did not make 1 bad call that went against the yanks but 4 in 1 game… unpiring is bad, they are lazy, to stationary, to arrogant, and think the yare part of the whole show.
they delude themselves about there importance.. after all kids always say to there dad before going to the ballpark I hope so and so is calling balls and strikes…………..
pathetic…selig is a clown.. he is a used car salesman who may be the most overpaid guy in the U S…
Yamkees????
Yams are fine source of nutrition.
Millar is an idiot, no pun intended.
Been to the new place a dozen times, monument park is not in the best place, but his comments about MPH? Give me a break.
Maybe he’s sour the Yankees took 3-4 from the Jays in the new place?
Personally, I really like the new place. It’s a nice stadium. People should just enjoy it instead of nit-picking every little thing.
Not true Wave. You make too many assumptions about people here.
Bottom line is, if the Yankees want to get Halladay, one of Hughes or Chamberlain would have to be in the deal in order to get him.
Its natural to speculate which one would go and why. After all, that’s why blogs exist.
Its not a knock to Joba, or Phil for that matter, to be discussed in a Roy Halladay trade.
Its not like folks are looking to DFA him.
““A’s DFA’d LHP Dana Eveland.”
Good thing the Yankees don’t similarly punish their pitchers for losing to the Red Sox.”
hmm we do need another lefty in the pen…
beating up on the big bad rich yankees is a sport.. people do not root for there team but root against the yanks.
nesn, nespn, they turn it into a 24 hour business…..
it will never end.. look at maddog russo, his #1 priority is the yanks lose.. when your team stinks consistently you hate the top dog….
I don’t know why people expect a stadium that’s 3 months old to have the aura & mystique of that of an 75 year old building.
“No pop, no pop” Give the guy a soda so he’ll shut up.
“The rumor mill was full of stories this spring that Joba was not in good shape coming into ST. If that’s true, and I believe it is”
——–
I guess he didn’t learn from that from Clemens. Aside from the alleged injections he may have taken, the Rocket (and Andy) know how important offseason workouts are.
Maybe Joba needs to send one of his 1,000′s of text messages over to Roger and ask how to get in shape.
Jimmy Gobble was also DFA’d
Halladay will not get a 6-7 year contract from any team.
He will get a 3, 4 years tops, extension to his present deal.
Very, very few teams have the financial capacity right now to go 3 years. Fewer have the ability to go 6 or 7 and they won’t.
Times have changed since last winter.
The yanks will not get Halladay the price will be just to high. Philly should mortgage everything for him, then they will have a chance to repeat. Philly should give up Drabek, marston, and 2 or 3 other top line prospects and get it done.. hamels and halladay, not bad, and there offense is top notch….
Anyone who thinks the Yankees should trade multiple prospects for Halliday needs to consider how much money they would have allocated to players in their late 30s and early 40s in 2011. It would be around $176 million for eight players. That would be terminally stupid.
Actually, SJ44, I do believe that if Joba were having a better season most people here would not want to deal him. If you think otherwise, fine, but in general we don’t think much past yesterday around here.
“Been to the new place a dozen times, monument park is not in the best place, but his comments about MPH? Give me a break.”
——–
I was thinking the same thing.
There are faults at the new stadium but I had no problem finding the radar gun reading on the giant scoreboard.
It sounds more like somebody who is trying to find faults rather than giving an unbiased opinion.
Interesting Yahoo article on why Halladay should have been traded last year. Fake GMs take notes:
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/ne.....;type=lgns
A’s apparently will be keeping Eveland per MLBTR.
Eh –
i had read that article last winter when it first made the rounds…all i can say is don’t believe everything you read….if you do – my condolences….
an uncashed paycheck is not the same as a “live” paycheck..
every company sends their employees “a check” every month (or twice a month depending on the schedule) – that doesn’t mean anything if you have some sort of direct deposit plan – go ahead and try to cash your “uncashed” direct deposited paycheck and see how fast your handcuffed…
david ortiz seems like a jolly guy to be around – but i don’t think i’d believe anything he says when it comes to knowing whether a paycheck is uncashed or not – yes he probably saw a paycheck stuffed in a drawer – Scott Boras is manny’s agent – he had manny set up some sort of deposit plan where boras probably takes $1,000 from it since boras is that type of vampire…..
people making $15,000 a year working at a real company have direct deposit set up….
manny is all about the money – as he’s advertised year after year – i’m pretty sure he’s smart enough to have that part of his life set up the right way..
if anyone believes manny has uncashed checks lying around i got a bridge to sell you in brooklyn..
Right now the Phillies aren’t going to do anything in the playoffs (if they make it) without adding a top starter.
The Yankees or Sox could of course use Halladay, but they aren’t as desperate as a team like Philly.
did anyone see the overhead cam of the manny strike out. the ball was literally on the white of the left handed hitters batters box. MLB umpiring has become embarrassing to watch
Where is bobcat? This is the ideal time for a post of “Read between the lines, they will use the media to their advantage, a deal with the yankees is immenent, they are just picking from the list Cash faxed them, nothing is what it appears and i cant say more than that because they might be tapping my computer”. I miss the riddles. Bobcat, we need need some brain teasers. Are we getting Halliiday or not?
“A’s apparently will be keeping Eveland per MLBTR.”
first DFA that confuses everybody
Tom (Jacksonville)
What would it take for the Yankees to get Halladay?
Jim Callis (2:10 PM)
Maybe something along the lines of Phil Hughes, Jesus Montero and Austin Jackson. Not sure if the Yankees would do that.
Wave Your Hat
Actually, SJ44, I do believe that if Joba were having a better season most people here would not want to deal him. If you think otherwise, fine, but in general we don’t think much past yesterday around here.
___
This is correct. If Joba was pitching like he did v. Boston last July in Fenway, you would have to be on drugs to trade him, even for Halliday.
Funny how Manny/ump problems converged yesterday.
But it’s not up to us to decide how much money we think Manny deserves to be rewarded with. We are not god.
Well Phillies are only as desperate as they need to be. They are winning the division, the Mets are in free fall mode, figure the Marlins will drop out again and the Braves are only so strong. They could win the AL East in stride without getting Halladay.
Take out Montero, add Romine and another pitcher (the Jays have a lot of OF’s in their system) and I wonder if the Phillies can top that deal?
Its going to be a fun, few weeks to follow what the Jays will do.
Brandon,
I think they reason is that the A’s are keeping him because of his numbers in the majors. He’s actually okay in the minors with a 3.48 ERA.
I’ve been to the stadium many times and have sat in different locations and I think all of this complaining is ridiculous. The place is pretty sweet. No stadium is going to be perfect, not even one that costs 1.5 billion dollars. I think most of the complaints come from the fact that it’s not exactly like the old one. People got used to looking in certain area for certain things. Unfortunately, times change. And where the mph is located changes too.
I loved the old place but it was a dump. The obvious saving grace was the actual field and also the history. The stadium itself was awful.
So thats it, huh?
Just like that.
The fanbase has given up on Joba and wants to send him to the wolves or in this case, Toronto.
————————————————————
Oh lighten up.
Nothing would make me happier to see Joba thrive here.
Honestly, those 6-7 weeks in 2007 when Joba came up were so much fun….I’d love to see that kid be our horse.
But I’d also like to see this team advance and that guy on the hill in Toronto is just incredible. I’ve seen him mow down the Yanks so many times at the stadium that I just learned to accept it and enjoy the talent show.
I can’t see the Yanks getting eliminated in the division series with that 1-2-3 punch.
Besides all that, the odds of this deal are very slim.
And this is just a blog. While many of us may think were the GM of the Yanks, we’re not. So this is just a little fun.
“if anyone believes manny has uncashed checks lying around i got a bridge to sell you in brooklyn..”
—-
sab,
I have no idea if this particular story is true, but don’t be so sure it isn’t. I’ve met the guy several times and have close mutual friends. That doesn’t mean it’s true, like I said, but I’ve heard enough stories to make this one believable.
He wasn’t smart enough to keep his wife from finding his “other” cellphone full of the 100′s of girls that he cheated with.
SJ
Bastardo, Carrasco, Donald and Taylor..No ?
Tons of potential trade, just posting some:
Logan (CA)
Do you think this deal gets Halladay for the Phils: Taylor, Drabek, Marson, and PTBNL
Jim Callis (2:05 PM)
That one also might work.
shawn (Boston)
Buchholz Bowden Anderson for Halladay
Jim Callis (2:05 PM)
I think the Jays would take that deal, but I’m not sure the Red Sox would want to give up all three of those players in one deal.
Love #10 of the Sawx fans response. They also don’t think we have the talent to pull of a trade?
http://www.boston.com/sports/b....._what.html
“Right now the Phillies aren’t going to do anything in the playoffs (if they make it) without adding a top starter.”
Cole Hamels becoming the ’07 -’08 Cole Hamels would go along way in the right direction. I didn’t think they had enough pitching last year. Didn’t think think the Cards had enough in ’06 either. Once you get to the postseason, you never know.
Weisdog -
I agree that Manny could have rolled down his window, smiled, waved and said “Catch me at Citifield.” I just don’t think it’s fair to expect him to sign autographs at that particular time. It would have been really nice if he did, sure.
It may not be “work” as most people are forced to endure, but baseball is these guys’ job. And autographs are nice, but not mandatory.
I can’t believe I’m defending Manny Ramirez’ actions.
Personally, I think he’s oblivious.
SJ44
Take out Montero, add Romine and another pitcher (the Jays have a lot of OF’s in their system) and I wonder if the Phillies can top that deal?
Its going to be a fun, few weeks to follow what the Jays will do.
___
The problem is impact of his contract on the Yankees’ payroll flexibility going forward.
Its not a question of desperation for any team.
This is Roy Halladay, the best pitcher in baseball.
There are probably 4, perhaps 5 teams he would approve a trade to that can afford to pay him and give up the players needed for such a transaction. The Yankees are one of those teams.
That makes it a big story.
WTH cares what Kevin Millar has to say? The next time someone cares about his opinion will be the first time.
I’d give up Buchholz for Halladay as a Sox fan.
manny? He’s not crazy, Ron Artest is.
And I get to cheer for him. Yeah.
the owls are not what they seem…
(stay tuned)
The field is limited for Halladay. Of that point, there can be no debate.
But if all prospects are equal, the safe bet is he’s going to be dealt to the Phillies if he’s going to get dealt at all.
As Riccardi said, the Jays would like a shortstop. They’ve also been scouting Jason Donald, the Phils top shortstop prospect since last year.
While Riccardi said it wasn’t an absolute necessity to get a young shortstop back in the deal, and that he would take the best prospect package, it would seem to give the Phillies a leg up.
Jeter for Halladay?
I really really don’t want to trade Joba or Hughes. I just don’t think I could take the pain of watching them succeed with another team after seeing them develop for so long. I guess the upside would be watching Halladay mow down hitters for us. I just don’t know. It is a very complicated decision obviously and I am glad to not be the Yankee front office trying to make it!
When you see the Yankees pull back from payroll for “flexibility issues” when a guy like Doc comes on the market, let me know.
We heard the same thing re: Tex and they went for it.
They would sign on for 4 years of Roy Halladay tomorrow if the deal is right. They would be crazy not to.
Brandon,
Carrasco has not lived up to the hype, Bastardo is hurt and there are concerns his shoulder is a long term issue, Taylor is very good (but the Jays are stacked with OF’s), and Donald is a good field, no O prospect.
Its light IF the Yankees put Hughes or Chamberlain and the Red Sox Buchholz on the table.
Maria, I agree (particularly with Phil)…….of course, the Jays will probably ruin either one of them given the injury history of their young pitchers.
“I loved the old place but it was a dump. The obvious saving grace was the actual field and also the history. The stadium itself was awful.”
People have selective memories. You are seeing that with the Michael Jackson hysteria as well. They want to remember what they want to remember; mostly the good stuff. Their brains block out the bad stuff because it makes it easier. I love the old stadium as much as anyone, but it needed to go. I haven’t been to the new one yet (the curse of living in Chicago!), but from the pictures I’ve seen, it looks absolutely gorgeous. People are never happy. That’s just the way it is.
Yes, Sab – I’m a lawyer and I have a nice job. I get the concept of direct deposit – I’m a big fan. And I certainly don’t believe everything I read. This one I choose to go along with.
SJ,
Do you think the Yankees approach the table?
I could see them going with a very strong, “take it or leave it” package.
Because, technically, we don’t really NEED Halladay, but like you, I can’t see the Yankees not doing their due diligence.
Here’s the problem though rconn,
JP has to get at least one, elite prospect back in return.
He can’t just get a bunch of guys.
Jason Donald is not an elite prospect. He’s an ok SS who some scouts think is overrated.
If you are going to deal Doc, one of the cache of players in return has to be at elite prospect level.
If not, then he is better keeping him.
If Bill Smith kept Johan Santana last year, he wins the AL Central and goes to the playoffs.
Given what he got in return, he would have been better off doing that.
In Doc’s case, JP has to get an elite guy, preferably a pitcher, that he can slot into Doc’s spot in the rotation.
If not, he is selling light and that’s not good for him.
Millar is preaching to the choir here. The Stadium will need some modifications in the offseason, and I’m sure the Yankees brass is listening to the fans.//
It’s pretty sad they the bone-heads who built it in the ”
“first place couldn’t get it right. They must have been too busy digging up Red Sox shirts throughout the new stadium.
So far that worked out good for them: 0-8 against the Sox. I’m beginning to think they missed the one buried under the pitcher’s mound. Oops….did I say that?
Sox will get Halliday. And when they do…..it definitely seals the Yankees’ coffin for the next several years!!!!!!”
I love it when you Red Sox D-Bags come on here. Our Blog writer actually lets you write your lame thoughts and get into arguments with Yankee fans.
Ive been banned from SEVERAL Red Sox blogs as a Yankee fan and it just goes to show the ridiculousness of your stupid “nation”. You twits and babies can dish it out, but cant take it at all.
Your also luck our Blogger is a die-hard Red Sox fan pushing the International Red Sox Conpiracy more than anyone. Peter probably loves in when these trolls come on and hype of the Sox. Hell, he probably INVITES them!
Yes, like I said…Its all part of the International Red Sox Conpiracy being driven to promote Red Sox Agenda through ESPN, Disney, NY Times, the entire media, Gammons, Pete, Kravich and the leader of the IRSC Secret Society Senator George Mitchell.
Another Manny story: When the Red Sox broke camp last year, the team stopped at Walter Reed and met with wounded soldiers and their families. The whole team participated, and Terry Francona and Tim Wakefield stayed for hours after the event ended, signing autographs and talking with the patients. Manny blew it off.. Never appeared, never gave an excuse. He is a bonehead and a bad guy. This was in the Boston Herald last year.
SJ44
When you see the Yankees pull back from payroll for “flexibility issues” when a guy like Doc comes on the market, let me know.
__
See Santana, Johan.
SJ44
If the Yankees go strong for Halladay, you know the Sox will be forced to counter.
I can see this playing out exactly the same way the Santana stuff did.
The Sox and Yanks battle each other, adding players, taking players out simply trying to drive the price up.
At the end of the day, they both just want him to leave the AL… e.g. Sign with the Phillies for less than the Sox or Yanks were reportedly offering.
“When you see the Yankees pull back from payroll for “flexibility issues” when a guy like Doc comes on the market, let me know.”
You are fighting the last war. The situation is different now.
The Yanks had payroll flexibility last off-season, and they used it. Those opportunities aren’t infinite. There’s downward pressure on ticket prices everywhere – the Yanks aren’t going to dramatically increase their budget in 2010, IMO, and they’ll have to if they sign Halliday and maintain their offense at 2009 levels.
What the Dusshh BOBCAT
S.A., the Yankees did not sent Phil to that gym in CA – he went on his own. The year before, he went down to camp early to work out – the kid just has a very good work ethic.
GLove, it sucks then that Joba will have a chance to remove himself from consideration from trade talks but Phil wont because he’s just a piece in the pen now.
“SJ44
If the Yankees go strong for Halladay, you know the Sox will be forced to counter.
I can see this playing out exactly the same way the Santana stuff did.
The Sox and Yanks battle each other, adding players, taking players out simply trying to drive the price up.
At the end of the day, they both just want him to leave the AL… e.g. Sign with the Phillies for less than the Sox or Yanks were reportedly offering.”
Wait a second.
Are you THE Bobcat??
I’d rather see Halladay go to the NL.
I think the Yanks, as presently constructed, will win the AL East and do just fine in the playoffs.
That said, if the price is right, welcome to NY Roy.
I’d just prefer the Yanks find a way to win it all with their present team.
The Yankees have to be in any trade discussion if only to raise the asking price for other teams. No smart negotiator makes a take it or leave it offer lest they risk offending the other party. But since the Yankees aren’t really interested except if they could steal him, they will only negotiate in terms of setting parameters.
You know, how melky & gardner do is kind of important. If they can hold their end of the bargain they’ll save some money at least for next season. And I don’t want to hear about Jackson until he’s actually here.
If they got Halladay they obviously wouldnt resign Pettite next year. Andy will hit his incentives and make 12 mil this year. The difference between what they pay Halladay will only be a couple of mil. Plus, Damon & Nady come off the books this off season too.
IMO, the one thing that would force the Yankees to open their wallets would be the Sox.
If Boston looks like they’re going to get him, all bets are off.
“Where is bobcat? This is the ideal time for a post of “Read between the lines, they will use the media to their advantage, a deal with the yankees is immenent, they are just picking from the list Cash faxed them, nothing is what it appears and i cant say more than that because they might be tapping my computer”. I miss the riddles. Bobcat, we need need some brain teasers. Are we getting Halliiday or not?”
LMFAO.
SoS: you have it down pat
new post – new topic – Halladay
M,
I think the Yankees will make an aggressive offer. I don’t think they will allow themselves to get jerked around, as was the case with the Twins talks. I do think they will put an offer together.
I also don’t think anybody will speak on or off the record about it because they don’t want to upset the clubhouse with unsubstantiated rumors.
They will talk about Lonn Trost screwing up the stadium more than they will talk about Doc Halladay! lol
Just knowing the people, I have a hard time believing they just say, “pass” and not engage the Jays in talks.
I don’t think they will “empty the farm” or act in any desperate way whatsoever.
I do think though, they can do match up that I did and see they can make it work, as long as Montero isn’t in the deal.
They also have Chapman as an option to replace the young pitcher in the deal. Another publicly “off limits” topic.
The Yankees need sellouts and playoff berths to keep their brand hot.
The Steinbrenner Family has always been a spend money to make money family. They are that way with their hotels, horses and baseball team.
Hal is no different than Dad in that regard.
I just think its one of those rare intances where they have the money, the depth in the system to withstand the player loss, and the right guy, to make a deal, if the terms are right.
That’s why I believe the Yankees, as well as Boston, will be fully engaged in this right down to the wire.
On Santana, the Yankees set a price they were willing to pay, which at one point did in fact include Hughes. It was declined, and then the Yankees bowed out, because they were being played.
Had Minny accepted the deal, Santana is here, Hughes,et al. are not.
I think another thing to consider, should the Yankees pull Doc, is Joba and Hughes are better ‘names’ to the average fan.
Boston has no one to offer at MLB level. And there are questions surrounding their prospect list. Especially Bowden and Anderson.
You bring back Joba, that’s a recognizable name for Jays fans.
Country Club-
Go to Cot’s and do the math. Once you do the math, make up your mind what you’d do if you were the Yanks. At least you’ll understand what Cashman is up against if Halliday would want a re-work of his existing contract.
SJ44 -
The only thing I would caution is they don’t actually “have” Chapman yet, if ever. They may be interested and they may be favored, but it’s not a done deal.
Boston Dave – lets forget about manny and his money issues..
but if its indeed true about his wife busting him with the other cell phone – thats a mistake made by millions of men (and women) every day…so i’m not going to fault him on that one either….
sincerely,
scott baras…
that would be boras…
Doreen,
That was only when Hank was involved. Cash was never seriously interested in Santana except to keep other teams honest. If he is permitted to handle these negotiations, that’s exactly the same scenario that will play out here.
and m, I’m with you, re: Austin Jackson. He’s not here until he’s here.
They didn’t back off Santana for payroll reasons.
They got turned down.
Their final offer was Hughes, Cabrera and Marquez for Santana.
Had the Twins said, “yes” Santana was a Yankee.
They turned it down and the Yankees moved on. Not for financial reasons. For lack of player matchup reasons.
Wave,
Let me break it down for you….
The Yankees can keep Doc at his 2010 salary of 15.75 and not change anything.
They can extend him to a 3 year, 60 million dollar deal with incentives after that and slot him in perfectly.
If they choose, they can even defer some money for later in his life so it doesn’t drag on the 2011, 2012 overall payroll.
In other words, if the two parties want to make a deal, a deal can be made.
The Yankees may not want to do it because they may not want to part with their younger players. They won’t walk away over money because the money can be worked out.
“but if its indeed true about his wife busting him with the other cell phone – thats a mistake made by millions of men (and women) every day…so i’m not going to fault him on that one either….”
——-
sab,
agreed. but he isn’t a very bright individual. he’s as clueless as advertised.
SJ44
Hal is no different than Dad in that regard.
__
That’s why Hal supported Cashman against Hank in the decision not to trade for Santana. You are really overgeneralizing.
Richie,
They didn’t back away from Santana because of payroll flexibility issues.
They didn’t pull the trigger because they didn’t want to sacrifice prospects AND give him a 6 year deal well over 100 million.
Brandon,
That cant be the real bobcat. He isnt talking in riddles. Besides, isnt it a little bit of a coinsidence that he comes out now that i mentioned him? Unless i opened up some kind of secret passage for him to blog again. Hmmm??
Thanks vinny, i wasnt sure if i had it down.
Richie -
I disagree, because by putting that deal on the table, you’re taking a real risk that it’s going to be accepted. If you’re differentiating Hank vs. Cashman, I think the bottom line is still ownership calling the end-game. If ownership wants/doesn’t want Halladay, it won’t matter what Cash wants; if Cash wants/doesn’t want something he’s got to convince ownership (either way).
SJ44
They didn’t back off Santana for payroll reasons.
They got turned down.
__
Cashman has publicly denied that. Hank was on his own in the negotiations, but never had the full authority to make a deal. Cashman always wanted to forbear on Santana and then sign CC a year later. He brought Hal along to his point of view, so the trade never happened.
And it was the Twins who didn’t pull the trigger; the Twins who turned down the Yankees’ offer. The Yankees then pulled any deal because it was becoming a farce.
Sos, darn it your right, usually by now he’d say he’s at a convention w/ a GM and that “things are not what they seem to be”
SJ44-
As I believe I said, if Halliday doesn’t want to renegotiate his contract it’s a different issue. I still wouldn’t do it, personally, but it’s a different issue.
But he’s got a no-trade and he will want to renegotiate his contract. You can’t push everything to the back end if you are the Yanks – they have too many long term, high price deals to let that work. The money coming off the Posada, Jeter and Rivera contracts will have to be plowed right back into the offense and bullpen to maintain current levels.
I just think the cold hard numbers are against the deal. Plus, I want to win with Joba and Hughes.
SJ,
I’m not saying that Donald would be the centerpiece of a deal and he has obviously struggled this year in AAA.
However, he had been very good offensively up until last year in Reading when he posted an .889 OPS. He has, up until this year, been a high .OBP guy.
But a pacakage of three of Taylor, Drabek, Marson, Bastarado with Donald could be enough.
I just don’t think it can be glossed over how unlikely it is that Halladay gets dealt within the division. I know there is small precedent for it, but the ramifications just seem too deep for all three teams that could be involved – Jays, Yankees, Sox.
I also don’t know if substituting Romine for Montero would be enough to pull it off for the Yankees. Romine has some pop, but a .316 OBP at Single A doesn’t seem that enticing if I’m dealing the best pitcher in baseball.
As a fan, I’d love to see it happen. If it was for Joba/Hughes and Romine plus another prospect not named McAllister or Jackson, then I would drive all three of them to the airport. And I live in Boston:)
I’m just not as optimistic as you are that the Yankees are going to be able to pull off this deal without giving up the proverbial farm.
Doreen,
That deal was only in the parameters stage. It was never one that could be accepted without the entire Yankee braintrust agreeing to it if the Twins were interested.
Don’t you think that Cash has gained cred with the Hal given the way Santana appears to be declining?
Speaking of Santana, I’m kind of glad we didn’t go after him after seeing the last several games he’s pitched it’s beginning to look like Cashman may have actually made the right choice in passing.
He should be careful with Halladay as well. I like to win with guys who “make their name” in NY, not elsewhere.
Some examples of this: Mariano, Jeter, Williams, Broscius, Petitte, Posada.
What has Roy’s recent injury shown the Jays brass that they are putting him up? He is the face of the Blue Jays…all seems a bit odd.
The bad call on Jeter wasn’t even Marty Foster’s worst call of the weekend. On Sunday, he was the home plate umpire when Toronto’s catcher tagged Teixeira with his glove while the ball was in his other hand.
Boston Dave 2.0
July 8th, 2009 at 2:48 pm
I’d rather see Halladay go to the NL.
I think the Yanks, as presently constructed, will win the AL East and do just fine in the playoffs.
That said, if the price is right, welcome to NY Roy.
I’d just prefer the Yanks find a way to win it all with their present team.
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The “best pitcher in baseball” is also a 32 year-old coming off of a groin issue.
I seriously doubt the Yankees are going to trade a 23-year old potential front-end stud for him.
Unless, of course, they are stupid.
So far, this new incarnation of the Yankees has resisted a retro-shift to George dinosaur stupidity. I have faith they will stay smart.
Newt (Jacksonville)
Gut feeling: Where would you rank Jesus Mon(s)tero in your Top 100 Prospects right now?
Jim Callis
No. 6.
SJ:
That can’t talk about Halladay on the record because it would be tampering. Off the record, I’ve had two team execs tell me the team will monitor it but does not expect to be in the mix as they don’t think Toronto trades within the division.
Hal is not like his father necessarily. The Yankees, for instance, had a budget with the draft for the first time and selected two players on top likely to sign. And Chapman is a shot in the dark. He may be 26 and lately there is talk that he could be hurt. How is he any different than any other prospect? Andrew Brackman, for instance, stinks. He was supposed to be some 100-mph golden boy.
I also don’t believe that there was a deal on the table that the Twins turned down. I think Cashman placated Hank Steinbrenner and simply made sure Johan would not go to Boston. They were never trading Hughes.
betsy July 8th, 2009 at 2:48 pm
S.A., the Yankees did not sent Phil to that gym in CA – he went on his own. The year before, he went down to camp early to work out – the kid just has a very good work ethic.
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Well, they paid for him:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02.....nkees.html
“After losing Hughes to injuries for much of the last two seasons — a hamstring and an ankle in 2007, a fractured rib last year — the Yankees paid for him to train at the Athletes’ Performance Institute in Los Angeles. He spent four days a week there, concentrating on upper body strength and adding eight pounds.”
And Chapman is a shot in the dark. He may be 26 and lately there is talk that he could be hurt. How is he any different than any other prospect? Andrew Brackman, for instance, stinks. He was supposed to be some 100-mph golden boy.
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Exactly.
Suggesting that Chapman and Joba are interchangeable is absurd. Joba has four plus pitches. Chapman’s secondary stuff is highly in question.
Joba is upside down, inside out right now, but he has shown he can actually pitch, not just hurl flames.
Pete,
Saying Brackman stinks is jumping the gun a bit. The bottom line with him this year is getting through healthy. I can care less if he walks 10 people a game.
And the Yanks took 2 safe picks in the first two rounds because they had to. They wouldnt receive compensation if they dont sign these guys.
I do agree with you about Hughes though. Too many insiders have said that the Yanks were never going to trade him in that deal.
They were never trading Hughes.
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Anybody paying attention had to know how attached Cashman was to keeping Hughes. The kid is the posterboy for what Cashman has already rebuilt from the ashes of George’s vampire raids.
Richie -
Yes, I think Cashman has a lot of credibility with ownership based both on how Santana played out and also how this off-season played out.
I really believe(d) the Santana situation was not just a ploy or a game of keep-away. Either I read the wrong things or missed the right ones on that. But at the time it seemed to me that if you make an offer, even if it’s in the exploratory stages, you need to be ready for it to be accepted. So what if in that 24 hour period where Hughes was floated the Twins said okay? If they take it back, they lose credibility. Although I’m sure other parameters can be concocted that would kill a deal you really didn’t want.
“Anybody paying attention had to know how attached Cashman was to keeping Hughes. The kid is the posterboy for what Cashman has already rebuilt from the ashes of George’s vampire raids.”
I do wonder if Yusssse becomes Papelbon how big the posterboy becomes in Cashman’s blueprint.
Wave Your Hat
Plus, I want to win with Joba and Hughes.
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I concur. I responded in some depth to a post of yours on this subject several blog entries ago.
I don’t see how Joba or Hughes could be outbound, under just about any circumstances. They are part and parcel to the gestalt of Cashman’s Yankees.
As fans, we are energized by what they are practically and for what they stand for symbolically.
We don’t just want to win.
We want to win WITH THEM.
A-Rod, Teixera, Sabathia, Burnett, Jeter and Mariano plus 30 million dollars for Halladay.
I never thought I’d ever say this, but after attending 3 consecutive games at the new ballpark I have to agree 100% with Kevin Millar.
I love the Great Hall entrance, I enjoyed the Museum, I love the accessibilty. But the scoreboard is just awful.I attended one game with an electrical engineer and he said the scoreboard was too busy for even him to follow. I hate they no longer tell you who is warming up in the bullpen. You dont find out who the new pitcher is until you sit through 5 minutes of advertising and the inning is about to begine. The auxillary scoreboards are taken down between innings to show you more ads.
But the worst thing is the wind. How the Yankees handle that situation will define the new Yankee Stadium. It obviously effects balls in play, but it also affects the crowd noise and even hearing the bat hitting the ball or glove, depending on where you are seated. The wind takes away a lot of the intensity that the old Stadium presented. The crowd noise is muted, not because of the fans but because of the design. I’m hard core baseball fan. I will judge the new Yankee Stadium on how it presents a baseball game, not on how much multimedia advertising they can show or how many martini bars there are. For the time being, the new Stadium cant hold a candle to the old place.
The Yankees have two frontline pitchers signed, trying to get a third with Joba, Wang used to be at least top 3 rotation wise and Hughes has the potential to be very good as well. Depleting this and the farm system for Halladay would be overkill at this point and the Yankees would need to fill so many positions externally their payroll would go out of control.
I believe DJ, agree with Millar, and hate Manny.