There just has to be another Halladay post on the blog, right? So here it is
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Jul 08, 2009 
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A few more thoughts on the Roy Halladay situation …
J.P. Ricciardi is not a popular fellow in Toronto. Whatever success the team has is credited to Cito Gaston and whatever goes wrong is blamed on the GM. His big-money deals for free agents B.J. Ryan and Troy Glaus went sour and the Vernon Wells contract is a disaster. Even A.J. Burnett backfired on him.
Ricciardi tangles with the writers and fans up there and at one point last season it wouldn’t have been stunning had he been let go.
Trading Halladay will be what defines him as a GM. Either he wins or he loses and that will determine whether he stays on the job.
Imagine for a second how it would play in Toronto if Halladay goes to the Yankees and wins Game 7 of the World Series. That would want to throw Ricciardi off the CN Tower.
He has to get a huge haul for Halladay. A position player ready to go, a top-notch pitching prospect and a high level prospect.
I don’t think the Yankees have the young, MLB-ready position player Toronto would require. Robinson Cano fills the bill but Toronto has an All-Star second baseman. Austin Jackson, while a fine prospect, is not a sure-fire superstar. This is a deal that requires quality, not quantity.
Whenever you think of a trade, put yourself in the other GM’s shoes and imagine being at a press conference to announce the deal. He needs to be able to stand up there and smile, not stand up there and try to convince people that Ramiro Pena has a lot of upside and Andrew Brackman really throws hard.
The bigger issue is trading in the division. That is a risk Ricciardi cannot take — unless he has a parachute handy.
Millar is preaching to the choir here. The Stadium will need some modifications in the offseason, and I’m sure the Yankees brass is listening to the fans.//
It’s pretty sad they the bone-heads who built it in the ”
“first place couldn’t get it right. They must have been too busy digging up Red Sox shirts throughout the new stadium.
So far that worked out good for them: 0-8 against the Sox. I’m beginning to think they missed the one buried under the pitcher’s mound. Oops….did I say that?
Sox will get Halliday. And when they do…..it definitely seals the Yankees’ coffin for the next several years!!!!!!”
I love it when you Red Sox D’s come on here. Our Blog writer actually lets you write your lame thoughts and get into arguments with Yankee fans.
Ive been banned from SEVERAL Red Sox blogs as a Yankee fan and it just goes to show the ridiculousness of your stupid “nation”. You twits and babies can dish it out, but cant take it at all.
Your also luck our Blogger is a die-hard Red Sox fan pushing the International Red Sox Conpiracy more than anyone. Peter probably loves in when these trolls come on and hype of the Sox. Hell, he probably INVITES them!
Yes, like I said…Its all part of the International Red Sox Conpiracy being driven to promote Red Sox Agenda through ESPN, Disney, NY Times, the entire media, Gammons, Pete, Kravich and the leader of the IRSC Secret Society Senator George Mitchell.
He’s going to the Phillies.
Pete had it right all along.
The Sox and Yanks just don’t want the other team to get him.
RH is not coming to the yanks. Enough said.
The Phillies will break the bank for him if they think they can get another title in the next 18 months with him. I find it curious that Ricciardi stated that he would not allow the acquiring team the opportunity to have a window to negotiate an extension with Halladay as well.
CHEAPSKATE MANNY RAMIREZ.
Jim Callis is an idiot. Hughes, Montero and Jackson – and he’s not sure if the Yankees would do that? Ya think, Jim?
Sorry, even if you replaced Montero with Romine, I don’t do that deal.
“Ricciardi said that Halladay has provided a long list of places he would not be willing to play, but the Toronto GM would not say if either New York club was on that list”
how can Boston NOT be on this list ???
A lot has to do with where Roy wants to go since he has a full NTC. Roy’s not waiving that just for kicks.
JP may want to get him out of the division but he’s not in control of the negotiation in that regard.
For example, If Roy will only approve trades to the Sox and the Yankess then JP’s job is to get the best deal he can get from either the Sox or the Yankees.
Wouldn’t it be more important for Ricciardi to get the most talent in return for Halladay (as opposed to not wanting him in the division)? Can Philly offer someone who has the upside of Joba or Buchholz or Hughes?
Trading him to a rival will hurt, no doubt. But I think fans would also be upset if he left a better deal on the table, like Minnesota did for Santana.
What would change if there is a consideration of taking on one of the bad Blue Jay contracts (Wells & Ryan)? Similar to the Sox getting Lowell along with Beckett (obviously there was more at play with Hanley Ramirez as the prospect).
Pete,
The Phillies have fewer ML ready prospects than the Yankees.
Just for the sake of discussion, who do the Phillies have to top Hughes or Chamberlain if the Yankees put one of them on the table, or Clay Buchholz if the Red Sox put one of them on the table?
Its arguable that Jason Donald isn’t a better SS prospect than Jed Lowrie, Nunez or Pena.
Michael Taylor? Very good AA OF prospect. Better than Travis Snider, whom the Jays have right now? Probably not.
JP has to make a deal he can sell. If he sells Doc short (talent-wise) just to get him out of the division, its worse than trading him in the division IF the Yankees or Red Sox put their top end guys on the market.
I’ll go one step further….
If you are the Orioles, and you put Brian Matusz and Chris Tillman on the table, how do you turn it down if you are JP?
From the Orioles perspective, given their young talent, having Doc top their rotation puts them in the mix next year for a playoff spot.
JP has to make the best deal he can make.
Sure, in a perfect world, he would rather not trade him in the division. However, if the best offer he gets is from NY, Boston or Baltimore (Tampa doesn’t have the cash to pay Doc), how does he turn that down?
Newt (Jacksonville)
Gut feeling: Where would you rank Jesus Montero in your Top 100 Prospects right now?
Jim Callis
No. 6.
*******
Also, if you guys are interested, I just did a bit looking at the Santana non-trade…and how that impacts the way I see the Halladay trade/non-trade. click my name for details.
Pete,
While I agree with you I also know that if the Yankees put Hughes/Joba on the table and it’s leaked publicly, he’s going to have to answer to the same fans why he didn’t take a name brand MLB ready 23 year old future front of the rotation starter for some players from the Phillies who don’t match up to their talent level.
Same thing if Theo throw Ellsbury or Buckholtz out there.
JP will get stoned by Canadians (and not in the good way) if he passes up the ESPN approved name brand guys I mentioned above for Doug Drabek’s kid and a AA OF from Philly.
Bill Smith looks like a moron for trading Johan to the Mets and considering the fact that if he handled it differently he had a shot at Lester/Hughes/Ellsbury in various packages makes it hard for him to ever live that mess down.
If the Yankees or Red Sox put the big guns on the table he owes it to the organization to deal with them.
It may seem easier in theory watching Halladay win in Philly or Anaheim but when their prospects don’t pan out like some of the guys I mentioned above have already panned out at the major league level, JP will be out of job faster than you can say Lloyd Moseby.
Call me naive, but no chance that the jays trade their star pitcher to a team in their division. Not going to happen.
Plus, we can’t afford him. Pete is making very good points regarding what we have to offer the jays in return.
Pete – so if they are looking for a position player ready to go (i.e. a major league hitter) then that cancels out the phillies as well – i don’t think they’re giving up utley or howard – rollins is getting up in years and is having a down season, ibanez is also old, werth isn’t enough, victorino is a nice player but is that what you are taking back for halladay – i don’t think so…
the dodgers would be the only ones that may have some decent position players to give up..
From the other thread:
betsy July 8th, 2009 at 2:48 pm
S.A., the Yankees did not sent Phil to that gym in CA – he went on his own. The year before, he went down to camp early to work out – the kid just has a very good work ethic.
==================
Well, they paid for him to train there:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02.....nkees.html
“After losing Hughes to injuries for much of the last two seasons — a hamstring and an ankle in 2007, a fractured rib last year — the Yankees paid for him to train at the Athletes’ Performance Institute in Los Angeles. He spent four days a week there, concentrating on upper body strength and adding eight pounds.”
only way i can justify trading for halladay is if the redsox are going to do it. yankees cant let epstein acquire halladay.
in that case, i’d send george steinbrenner and mariano rivera if thats what it takes
This blog needs to go to HA
Halladay Anonymous
“only way i can justify trading for halladay is if the redsox are going to do it. yankees cant let epstein acquire halladay.
in that case, i’d send george steinbrenner and mariano rivera if thats what it takes”
Worst trades are when you’re trading just to keep another team to get them.
Remember, Maddox/Smoltz/Glavine only actually won one World Series together.
Pitching counts for a lot, but it ain’t everything.
for the record. Not in favor of Halladay to NYY
players who need to be off-limits:
Montero (self explanitory)
AJax (we have no OF’s)
Melancon (Mo’s successor)
Banuelos (he is a prodigee)
agree? Disagree?
Toronto really shouldn’t care who they trade him to. He’s pricey now and they aren’t winning soon. Whoever gets him will almost certainly sign him long term to CC/Johan money (but probably not length). He’ll be a huge asset to whoever gets him, but the accompanying contract will be a burden. Even the Yankees have a limit on how many players they can sign to 9 figure contracts. CC/AJ/Halladay would be a huge burden on the budget and really limit the team’s flexibility going forward, which may actually help Toronto – especially considering the Yankees would have to give up good, young, cheap players to get him.
Halladay is the new Santana.
Trade rumors galore
Joba Chamberlain, Austin Jackson, Mark Melancon (or another prospect on his level) & another lower level prospect…
if I was a GM I’d be able to sell that to my fanbase pretty easily. Chamberlain has already proven himself to be an elite relief pitcher and if The Blue Jays chose to continue the Joba as a starter saga they could do that to. Austin Jackson has just as much promise as Carlos Gomez who was the centerpiece of the Johan Santana deal according to Ken Singleton and then you have to throw in two other prospects.
It’s very doable…its just a question of A) would the Yankees be willing to give up one of their blue chip players like Hughes or Chamberlain and B) whether or not Ricciardi would deal within the division.
As the great George Harrison said in his book “I Me Mine”: “don’t over complicate things unless they truly need complication”.
Let me be clear….
I’m not saying the Yankees are going to make a deal for him.
I just don’t buy they won’t try, that’s all.
I think JP is in a tough spot because the prospects that really would improve his team are in NY, Boston and Baltimore.
The Phillies don’t have any ML ready pitchers as good as Buchholz, Hughes, Chamberlain and Chris Tillman, if you put Baltimore in the mix. Those 4 guys are studs compared to what the Phillies have to trade.
I’m just saying I don’t believe the Yankees will walk away over contractual concerns.
Prospect concerns? Yes. Money? No.
Question…
If the yankees do indeed get halladay – are they out of the running for chapman? And taking it one step further..do the redsox then become the favorite to get chapman only to match what the yankees did…
Mo’s successor is not in the organization at this time, IMO.
I don’t believe anybody from within will end up replacing him.
When its time to get a closer, they will go outside the organization to get one.
Wait Posada’s wife and Hamels’ wife on reality show??
was this discussed?
Vinny:
I’d have no problem with Jackson or Melancon being involved in a Halladay deal. Don’t know enough about Banuelos.
There’s too much time between now and Mo’s successor. We have no idea how that will turn out just yet.
Could be one of our up and coming starters fails as a starter and shifts to the pen, could be outside the organisation…
Cross that bridge when you come to it, and enjoy Mo while you can.
Richie -
Yes, I think Cashman has a lot of credibility with ownership based both on how Santana played out and also how this off-season played out. And I know Cashman himself did not want Hughes included.
I really believe(d) the Santana situation was not just a ploy or a game of keep-away. Either I read the wrong things or missed the right ones on that. But at the time it seemed to me that if you make an offer, even if it’s in the exploratory stages, you need to be ready for it to be accepted. So what if in that 24 hour period where Hughes was floated the Twins said okay? If they take it back, they lose credibility. Although I’m sure other parameters can be concocted that would kill a deal you really didn’t want.
Enough talk about Halladay for christ sakes. The GM goes out and says he could be traded and boom, all the media dropping rumors and ideas about him being dealt. Enough already.
SJ44-
You think they’d let their payroll go to $210MM – $220MM to sign Halliday, while giving up a cheap cost-controlled potentially top starter in Hughes or Joba, plus other assets?
I’m sorry, I disagree.
On the bright side, I am happy to see we have all started consistantly spelling Halladay’s name right
Notre Dame vs Army is official at Yankee Stadium in 2010.
Uncle E:
Yup
http://tinyurl.com/nwyyjl
Banuelos is a good prospect. But he’s being greatly overrated. His ceiling is limited.
“This blog needs to go to HA
Halladay Anonymous”
Erica, I agree entirely.
Erica – you spoke too soon – Wave your Hat gets the “Anti Vanna White” Award for spelling the name Halliday in the post before yours…
Unless of course he/she is way ahead of us all and knows that the yankees will get both roy halladay and matt holliday – hence halliday
Wave:
They’re at $210M already. They disguise $9M of Sabthia’s deal as a bonus, but it’s on top of his $14M “salary” for the year. Halladay would put them at about $225M plus lux.
Wave,
Halladay only makes 7.5 million this season and the team that trades for him only picks up the remaining salary for this season which would be 3-4 million dollars.
Next season he’s due 15 million, but next season Andy, Damon, Matsui, Nady, Molina come off the books so payroll goes down.
Do you think the Yankees would add 3-4 million this season to get this pitcher?
“Notre Dame vs Army is official at Yankee Stadium in 2010.”
They need to have a really awesome concert there like Citifield is with Paul McCartney
Erica -
Like when Teixeira was in play in the off-season! Now we all spell his name right, too.
Mientkiewicz is still a bear though! Thank goodness he’s no longer here.
(And I mean that strictly with respect to typing/spelling)
I hope Halladay isn’t in a hurry like Santanna was,and go to just any team dangling a huge contract.Be like PEAVY demand a real contender for the WS.
Wave,
Their payroll is going to be 185-210 for the rest of time.
What they don’t get in pitching, they will spend on something else.
The Yankees always talk about “payroll flexibility” and something comes up.
If its not Halladay, it will be someone else in the off-season.
Do I think they would trade one of Joba or Hughes if its the final piece to get Halladay? Yes I do.
Why? Because its a whole lot easier to sell expensive seats and fill a stadium when your team is in the playoffs.
They have over 10 million dollars tied up in Wang and Pettitte this year. If both are gone after this season, they take that money and apply it toward the 15.75 toward Halladay’s 2010 salary.
That means they pay Roy Halladay 5.75 million more than they are paying 2 guys who probably aren’t back next year.
Seems like a bargain to me. Would you take Halladay for an extra 5.75 next year? I would.
As far as 2011-2013, they can slot in his money and still be ok.
They can take a portion of his extension and defer it over time. That keeps the 2011-2013 salary in line, if they so choose.
My point is, the money can work. They did it with Tex and his money is even higher than Doc’s will be, even with a new contract.
Halladay smackdown
many voices of wisdom
not equally wise
From the last thread, Pete. Two Yankee execs said they don’t think they’ll be in on it because they don’t think Doc will be traded in the division?
Did they mean they won’t even try because that’s their assumption? Or will they at least try, but ultimately that will be the decidin factor?
The Yankees aren’t going to trade away all of their prospects for a year and a half of Roy Halladay. That’d be ridiculously moronic for the Yankees to trade away all those prospects and just ‘hope’ they can re-sign Halladay when his contract expires next year. Ain’t gonna happen.
Doreen-
I still call him Dougie M. for that exact reason. If I can’t spell it right, why even try?
It doesn’t matter how we feel.
The Jays should ask for Hughes or Chamberlain, plus Montero, plus 2 other lower-level high-ceiling prospects.
And they should just sit back and wait, and not accept a lesser offer. They DON’T have to trade Halladay anywhere right now, and acquiring Halladay makes any of the assumed suitors favorites to win the Series this year and next.
Ricciardi MUST use Halladay to rebuild his team. Not doing so is a crime against the Jays’ organization.
==================================
The tough part is this: do the Yanks bite at such a sky-high price. Normally, they shouldn’t. But if a serious offer from the Red Sox is on the table, and the alternative is the prospect of facing a critical 3-game series late in the season, or the ALCS, and looking down the barrel of Halladay, Beckett and Lester…
…then they might very well pay that price. Or face the fact they’re not winning anything for several years to come.
G Love:
Halladay was on the Jays books for $14.25M this year.
OMG- I just had the best trade idea yet!!!
Why don’t we trade the Old Yankee Stadium for Roy Halladay?!?!
Here’s my two cents. I keep coming back to the idea that the Yankees and the Red Sox were unwilling to deal for a younger lefty in Santana. So why would they now part with their prospects (which, admittedly, the Red Sox have more of) to acquire Halladay? From 2004-2007 Santana, at ages 25-28, had 3 seasons of WHIPS 32 anyway?
Nobody has said they will “trade all of their prospects”.
Nobody will “trade all their prospects” for Doc.
Stuff happens in trade talks.
Sometimes, your best laid plans…..don’t trade him in the division, get 4-5 players, get him to approve a new destination, etc, don’t work out as planned.
They may not WANT to trade him within the division.
What happens IF the best offer though is within the division? You don’t think that changes things?
Ramey: They would work out an extension as part of the trade.
“I don’t believe anybody from within will end up replacing him.”
There’s a good chance that there isn’t a pitcher in baseball and there will never be again, that can replace Mariano Rivera…sure some one will have to become the closer for the Yankees, but that and replacing Mo are two very different things…
“SJ44-
You think they’d let their payroll go to $210MM – $220MM to sign Halliday, while giving up a cheap cost-controlled potentially top starter in Hughes or Joba, plus other assets?
I’m sorry, I disagree.”
Wave,
If the Yankees win the next three WS you think they’re gonna care about having a $210MM payroll?
I don’t, and if the Yankees really want Halladay they will get him.
“Imagine for a second how it would play in Toronto if Halladay goes to the Yankees and wins Game 7 of the World Series. That would want to throw Ricciardi off the CN Tower.”
Is it better if he wins game 7 for Boston or Philadelphia?
Well it might be given the state of Yankee contempt but what we are saying here is that the Yanks could put together the best package and still have a decent crop. That’s what all the intrigue is about.
I dont see us committing over 300 mill for three starting pitchers, talk about all your eggs in one basket….
The Yankees will not give up Joba/Hughes and Jesus in the same deal. It will not happen.
My last post got cut off. But here’s one more point. Why would Halladay agree to be traded to the Yanks, anyway, after that homer fest he participated in over the weekend? At age >32, does anybody want to be a RH starter in the new Yankee Stadium?
“Ramey: They would work out an extension as part of the trade.”
Ricciardi has already stated that he won’t grant any acquiring team the window to negotiate an extension
So if trading Holladay for Joba, Montero, and some other high prospect…take your pick..wouldn’t define him as a GM?
They get their MLB ready guy and a high end prospect while the Yanks rent Holliday for a year and a half. I would think the Yanks would have to have an extension for another 3 to get this done though.
Yanks got the resources, but are they willing to trade the future for now?
Also, I was away for awhile and seen a couple guys post what meh is….from wikipedia
Meh is an interjection, often an expression of apathy, indifference, or boredom. However, it can also be used to indicate agreement or disagreement. It can also be an adjective, meaning mediocre or boring.[1]
Also, In November 2008, the word was added to the Collins English dictionary, a British publication, published by Harper Collins:[1][2]
It’s even a word….how about that.
Burnett + Coke for Halladay?
I understand the concept of JP not being able to trade within his own division.
Problem is, that’s not the driving force in the deal.
If it is, he will get nothing of substance for Doc. The Phillies can basically offer him nothing and get him by default.
If that happens, he is gone.
The driving force has to be the return back for the Jays.
It has to be substantial enough to be able to help rebuild the team.
Guys like Hughes, Chamberlain, Buchholz, Tillman, etc are sustantial. Its easier for him to sell than getting a bunch of AA players from other teams outside the AL East.
“That’d be ridiculously moronic for the Yankees to trade away all those prospects and just ‘hope’ they can re-sign Halladay when his contract expires next year. Ain’t gonna happen.”
Is there another team in baseball that can pay Roy more money than the Yankees can pay him?
Jason, 3 reasons for ya.
1. AJ
2. Championship
3. MONEY
in order of least importance
Several of the arguments being bandied about here make sense if Mr. Halladay is just as willing to go to Philadelphia as he is to go to New York and if the Phillies can both come up with as good a package as the Yankees can and are willing to pay the freight. We don’t know if any of that is the case.
We’re not making any such deal.
And although our system is deep with young pitching, we have no one near ready to step into the rotation in lieu of Joba or Hughes.
Garcia was that guy – but he’s back on the DL.
There is no one else at that level close to the majors.
Both Joba and Hughes are very talented young arms many of us are invested in witnessing succeeding as Yankees, Cashman included.
Steve B,
Got it. I saw 7.5 million being floated around and thought that was his salary this year. It’s what’s left on his salary this year.
I still don’t think adding 7.5 million to the payroll makes the Yankees flinch.
It’s the cost in prospects that make them flinch.
Maybe it isn’t about the money for Roy? Maybe he doesn’t want to pitch in a launching pad for 5 – 7 years? If I was him, I’d want to go to the National League in a heartbeat and win 20 games easily and pitch 15 complete games while throwing 85 pitches
Heck yea !
The Yankees can allow the RS,to break the bank.They still haven’t recouped from all the Arod like money for Dicek.
I’m including the money spent for just the right to be able to speak with him.,in his total acquisition.THEY CAN’T AFFORD HALLADAY!
Citizens Bank Ballpark is no Citi Field or Petco Field. Its as much a homer haven as YS.
He’s an extreme groundball pitcher.
He can pitch anywhere.
A-ROD! A-ROD!
July 8th, 2009 at 3:29 pm
Burnett + Coke for Halladay?
====
Deal.
Bod,
If you deal Joba or Hughes for Doc, your 2010 rotation is:
CC-Doc-AJ-Hughes or Chamberlain, (whichever one isn’t gone) and either Aceves, Wang (if he still here) or someone else. That’s a formidable rotation for the next 3 years. Really, all you can plan out these days.
You have McAllister in AAA and who knows what else coming down the pike.
Christian Garcia was never in the mix because he can’t stay healthy.
Haiku:
Boston is at least $10M under budget. They can add something pretty significant if they think it makes sense. All that money they were willing to pay Teixeira? It went to nobody. I doubt they’ll want to part with prospects, but if they do, they have no problem with the financial end.
Okay.. I have it.
Kei Igawa + Old Yankee Stadium = Roy Halladay
bodhisattva-Were you joking? No way that deal is made.
***Desperately Seeking a Game Thread***
Steve B:
“All that money they were willing to pay Teixeira? It went to nobody.”
Jason Bay. (to go)
“The Yankees aren’t going to trade away all of their prospects for a year and a half of Roy Halladay. That’d be ridiculously moronic for the Yankees to trade away all those prospects and just ‘hope’ they can re-sign Halladay when his contract expires next year. Ain’t gonna happen.”
Halladay will probably insist on a contract extention before he signs so that wouldn’t even be an issue. I’m with Pete – no way TOR trades him within their own division.
bodhisattva-Were you joking? No way that deal is made.
—-
Yea, JP seems like a Pepsi Throwback kind of guy.
SJ44: why wouldn’t Wang be here next year? I don’t think we can get good value for him on the trade market right now and I like to believe that he can regain his old level of play. Wang as our #4 starter… wow.
It’s not only the stadium that might bother Doc it’s the addition of and salary of Vernon Wells that makes this so tough.
Rishi-
8:00 game tonight. The game thread could be late
I think it was reported somewhere (Heyman maybe) that Halladay gave a long list of places that he would not go but said he would consider Philly, Boston and NY as potential landing spots…I think the least of our concerns (those of us like myself who want RH on The Yankees) is whether or not he’d accept a trade here. I’d be extremely surprised if he didn’t.
As for the dimensions of Yankee Stadium…look with the two FA pitchers we brought in last season and moreso if we sign up Doc Halladay…The Yankees are going to have to do something in the offseason to make this stadium less HR happy…I mean right now YS is a bandbox and one of the rare times I’ve agreed with “Fat Mike” is when he said on his show that you don’t want to have your team playing in a bandbox. So The Yankees need to make some adjustments to the stadium in my mind in the offseason both to accommodate their pitching staff and also to make the stadium play more like a real MLB ballpark…That’s just my opinion, I’m sure if Doc was given assurances that something would be done in the offseason as far as the dimensions go it would assuage any fears he might have about pitching in YS.
Red Sox went for quantity–Penny, Smoltz, Bay, Green, etc.
“Okay.. I have it.
Kei Igawa + Old Yankee Stadium = Roy Halladay”
maybe we can reacquire rasner from Japan and add him too?
I guess it’s good that this place has been 24/7 Roy Halladay the last 2 days because it’s a clear sign that the Yankees as currently constituted are doing pretty well these days. Not much for the natives to complain about so they can spend their time arguing the pros and cons and the likelihood of getting the best pitcher in baseball from a division rival. Good thing there are only 3 more weeks before the deadline and then this can all be over with.
Isn’t Halliday somewhat injury prone? Does this factor into any decision?
I just can’t see Riccardi keeping Halliday within the division, especially after the Burnett debacle.
The Yankees do have the prospects and the cash, as SJ44 says, and can beat the Sox at this game if they really have to. About $40-45 million is coming off the books next year, correct?
I just don’t see Riccardi pulling the trigger on this one with anyone in the AL East. Clemens was another time and era.
I honestly do not care that our stadium is a bandbox. It means absolutely nothing to me.
Enough talk about Halladay for christ sakes. The GM goes out and says he could be traded and boom, all the media dropping rumors and ideas about him being dealt. Enough already.
—————————————————-
Thats what the internet is for. What are you trying to do…stifle free speech? If folks want to discuss a potential trade, let them.
Erica – always OPPC
July 8th, 2009 at 3:39 pm
Rishi-
8:00 game tonight. The game thread could be late
—————
I’ll take a game thread for any game at this point
I had front row tickets for the Dodgers game tonight (with the Dodger fan friends so you have to say Dodger game) and can’t go b/c I’m stuck in Wilmington and now I’m ODing on Halladay trade talk
“All that money they were willing to pay Teixeira? It went to nobody.”
Actually it went to a smartphone so John Henry could Twitter.
But the phone wasn’t smart enough to save him…
Ricciardi and the Jays need to face facts and just be content with fighting it out for third place. Besides the fact that they share a division with NY, Boston, and Tampa Bay, theyre just a poorly run franchise. Quite like the Mets in that respect. They draft poorly, develop poorly, coach poorly, and perform poorly but unlike the Mets they dont have the resources to buy their way out of a ditch. The kings ransom they will surely get for Halladay wont make the team a winner. No matter what you get for Halladay, it probably wont be enough to replace him.
remember as well, the Jays do not have to trade Halladay…sure they would rather get the goods while they can, but they’re still not going to give him up for nothing or even less just because he will only waive his NTC for the Yankees or Sox…if he’s going anywhere for less than what the Jays are looking for it will not be in the division
Wow How the mighty have falled
From Blue Jay beat writer Bastian twitter
Blue Jays release B.J. Ryan and activate Scott Downs from the 15-day DL.
Wang is still in his arb years, correct? Why wouldn’t we see him in 10? Especially with this season, he should come pretty cheap in arb.
“Halladay will probably insist on a contract extention before he signs so that wouldn’t even be an issue. I’m with Pete – no way TOR trades him within their own division.”
As I already said, JP Ricciardi told reporters he would NOT allow a window to negotiate a contract with Halladay, so any team who makes the trade would have to just hope he’s the missing cog to getting them a world series title in the next 18 months.
A team like the Whitesox with Kenny Williams are the only team that comes to mind who would make that sort of risky move
If we’re talking about young Yankees pitchers, don’t forget about Ivan Nova in AAA. He’s only 22 and is finally living up to the promise.
I will try one more time.
If they rework a deal for Halladay, it will be in the vicinity of $23MM/year for 5 years. (If Halladay agrees not to renegotiate, that’s a different, but IMO unlikely, scenario).
If that is correct, they would have approximately $189.5MM committed for 2010.
That $189.5 would be committed as follows:
Starters: CC, AJ, Halladay (if they trade Joba for Halladay)
Bullpen: Rivera and Marte.
OF: Swisher
INF: Teixeira, Cano, Jeter, ARod, Posada.
They are also paying (in the $189.5MM) Igawa, Brackman, Miranda.
OK. They will need 2 more starters – Hughes (1.0MM including an estimated arb increase) and somebody in the Wang/Pettitte mold – let’s say $6.5MM.
You are up to $197MM. Now for the offense:
You can bring up Jackson, but you need to replace the Damon/Matsui/Hinske production. That’s $32.5MM this year, but let’s say you can replace it for $20MM. I don’t know how, but let’s say you could.
You are up to $217MM.
You still need to sign 5 relievers (let’s say all major league minimum – I doubt it but just for argument). $2.5MM, you are up to $219MM.
You need to sign Melky, a 5th OF (Jackson, say), a back-up infielder and a back-up catcher. Again, all major league minimum plus Melky at say $1.5MM. Another $3.0MM, you are up to $222MM.
That’s the minimum. And that assumes you can replace Damon and Matsui for $20MM. You can dream about reworking Halladay’s contract, but it would only make a difference cash basis, not accrual.
Anyway, that’s the way I see it, and I don’t think it will happen. Especially when you throw in all the other reasons it probably won’t happen.
Again….Halladay will decide where he’s going, if he’s going anywhere. Not Ricciardi. Ricciardi will be limited to whatever deal offered by whatever team Halladay will accept.
Gayle
They outrighted BJ Ryan? Now that’s someone who I would try to pick up–definite reclamation project…
If you listen to Haladay he is being extremely careful with what he says. I just found it interesting that he said without actually stating out loud that Toronto is no good and he wants to go to a good team.
So part of Halladay’s new Yankee contract will be to move the walls back?
I can live with that.
Somebody posted a while back that while it would seem difficult and costly to move the walls back, it would make sense just to move the plate back and knock out a couple of front rows. No one’s sitting there anyway.
They released BJ RYAN!!!
so we can trade melancon in the trade or something LOL!
2 good things out of this!
1. We can sign him to AAA and try to fix him, since he WAS once good
2. That means the blue jays need bullpen help
Like i said earlier..they need a closer!
New nickname for Aceves from RAB: The Mexicutioner.
Pittsburgh Yankee fan
Jordan Bastian wrote it as release which to me means release although wouldnt he have to clear waivers first??
Blue Jays release B.J. Ryan and activate Scott Downs from the 15-day DL.
===========================
This place is so Yankee biased its pathetic. The Yankees can’t get everyone on the planet.
“Again….Halladay will decide where he’s going, if he’s going anywhere. Not Ricciardi. Ricciardi will be limited to whatever deal offered by whatever team Halladay will accept.”
Or he could just do nothing, which is just as likely, if not more, than him taking a less than optimal deal just because Doc only wants to go to 2 or 3 teams (if that’s even the case)
“As I already said, JP Ricciardi told reporters he would NOT allow a window to negotiate a contract with Halladay, so any team who makes the trade would have to just hope he’s the missing cog to getting them a world series title in the next 18 months.”
Keep in mind the no-trade clause, Halladay will pitch where he wants, Ricciardi will have to allow the windows Doc wants, PERIOD.
Ricciardi is just a fag GM with the Golden Egg in his hands, we won’t blow, he’ll take our prospects and put a pinstripe on Halladay’s uniform.
Lorenzo
July 8th, 2009 at 3:47 pm
This place is so Yankee biased its pathetic. The Yankees can’t get everyone on the planet.
—————–
Is this a joke?
“Blue Jays release B.J. Ryan and activate Scott Downs from the 15-day DL”
Released? Wow! Jays are paying Ryan $15M to pitch for someone else the next season and a half. He stinks now, but still….
I am praying for him to go to the Phillies… that would BURY the Mets.
Lorenzo-Dude…
Rishi-
I actually really like Delaware. (Wilmington Delaware, not North Carolina right?). I find the lack of sales tax very refreshing. LOL
And yes, I am a little sick of the Halladay chatter myself
Rishi July 8th, 2009 at 3:47 pm
Lorenzo
July 8th, 2009 at 3:47 pm
This place is so Yankee biased its pathetic. The Yankees can’t get everyone on the planet.
You people just think because we are “The Yankees” we can sign everyone and everyone wants to come here. Try looking at stuff from an unbiased position, this place makes my head explode.
I don’t think they renegotiate his present deal. The team that gets him will look to extend from 2011 on. I bet its 3 years, 20-22 million (2011-2013).
The 22 million owed to him from now through 2010 isn’t scaring any of the big suitors off.
You can defer 5+ million per year of his new deal if need be for payroll reasons. You can use part of it as a “signing bonus”, which they did for CC.
Everything is on the table when you are doing deals.
Doesn’t mean they will do it but, its doable.
Will BJ Ryan have to clear waivers? Interesting question…
Lorenzo -
It IS a Yankees blog, after all.
“July 8th, 2009 at 3:47 pm
This place is so Yankee biased its pathetic. The Yankees can’t get everyone on the planet.”
So correct. I hate when Yankee fans are biased towards the Yankees. Disgusting
“As I already said, JP Ricciardi told reporters he would NOT allow a window to negotiate a contract with Halladay, so any team who makes the trade would have to just hope he’s the missing cog to getting them a world series title in the next 18 months. ”
First I’ve heard of this. How can he do that? If I’m Halladay, I’d be pissed.
BJ Ryan is done.
mfg, we must give a shot on BJ!!!
Lorenzo-You know you’re not obligated to come here, right?
It’s a YANKEES blog. We look at the Halladay deal to see how it’ll affect the YANKEES.
Believe it or not, it’s kind of the point of the blog.
“If you listen to Haladay he is being extremely careful with what he says. I just found it interesting that he said without actually stating out loud that Toronto is no good and he wants to go to a good team.”
Are there quotes somewhere?
Erica – always OPPC
July 8th, 2009 at 3:49 pm
Rishi-
I actually really like Delaware. (Wilmington Delaware, not North Carolina right?). I find the lack of sales tax very refreshing. LOL
And yes, I am a little sick of the Halladay chatter myself
————
Yup – Wilmington, DE – did some tax-free shopping (the limited pay check tax is great too:) ) but you can’t get the games down here, restaurant options are limited where I am…just feels like time stopped some time circa 1985.
WOW did the Jays outright release him?
They must think he’s completely done.
That’s a lot of dough to throw away.
You can always go Lorenzo.
Unless you are being tied down, nobody is forcing you to stay.
If you are being forced to stay against your will, type in “911″ and we will call for help.
Wave Your Hat: save yourself time, just type “The Yankees won’t trade for Halladay because they can’t afford him” and see how that looks.
RalphieD (OPPC)
July 8th, 2009 at 3:39 pm
“Okay.. I have it.
Kei Igawa + Old Yankee Stadium = Roy Halladay”
maybe we can reacquire rasner from Japan and add him too?
****
Good idea. We can also make Bernie Williams unretire and cancel his tour, and add him to the trade
Wait till they come to OUR house AGAIN July 8th, 2009 at 3:50 pm
Lorenzo-You know you’re not obligated to come here, right?
It’s a YANKEES blog. We look at the Halladay deal to see how it’ll affect the YANKEES.
Believe it or not, it’s kind of the point of the blog.
You people think because were the Yankees, we’ll get a window…JP ALREADY SAID HES NOT GIVING ANY TEAM A WINDOW…WHY WOULD HE CHANGE HIS MIND FOR US, A DIV RIVAL????????
“I don’t think they renegotiate his present deal. The team that gets him will look to extend from 2011 on. I bet its 3 years, 20-22 million (2011-2013).”
OK, but why would Halladay agree to that? If he does, I’d think he’d want the foregone salary in 2009 and 2010 tacked onto the back end with interest at least.
Some of the stuff people say on here makes me need to read it to see if it was actually uttered by a human being.
“New nickname for Aceves from RAB: The Mexicutioner.”
That’s Joakim Soria’s nickname in Kansas City.
I don’t think Halladay goes anywhere this season. Blue Jay fans still think they can contend next year with him if they get their injured pitchers back.
BJ was throwing 84 MPH fastballs in the Yankee series. It was sad to watch.
He was BP.
Never got the velocity back after TJ Surgery.
“So correct. I hate when Yankee fans are biased towards the Yankees. Disgusting”
LOL!!!!
Nick in SF-
I tried that before but people didn’t want to believe it. It hurts to realize there are folks out there who don’t always believe me, but there it is…
Should we be looking at the potential Halladay trade from the perspective of Royals fans?
Pete you sure know how to get a thread posting.Just the idea of Halladay potentially being available,is too much to imagine.I love the debate,because the Yankees are always in the equation!
Last year when CC went to the Brewers.I received an email from a friend chiding me,about the YANKEES missing out on Santanna,and now CC.
So I sent an email saying,the YANKEES will pay for a player once,no rentals.The exception is Pudge so Pasada could have his surgery. CC will be in pen stripes watch!
We all know what happened,you seen him last night,pitching a beauty.
tough because he’s just not the same after injury, but BJ is done. Just because a now terrible pitcher would be next to free does not mean the Yankees need to sign him.
# Laura July 8th, 2009 at 3:53 pm
“So correct. I hate when Yankee fans are biased towards the Yankees. Disgusting”
LOL!!!!
That’s why the rest of the league hates us. Try and not just look at things form 1 point of view, try looking at it from multiple ones. Like the Jays.
“They must think he’s completely done.”
Not much that he did in his recent visit to the Stadium that doesn’t support that contention.
Nick in SF
July 8th, 2009 at 3:53 pm
Should we be looking at the potential Halladay trade from the perspective of Royals fans?
——————-
How about everyone pick a team and then we can do mock debates?
I’ll take the Nationals – gets me out quickly
Rishi,
I just loved the idea that if you were in McDonalds or something and the sign said “Soda $1.00″. You actually paid $1 and not $1.08. Amazing
Wave,
If he doesn’t agree to it, he stays in Toronto and plays out the current deal.
If he has a chance to go to a winning team, he will most likely work things out with that team.
JP isn’t going to allow teams to talk to him prior to any deal.
So, he’s going to have to approve or reject any trade under the current terms of his present contract.
That means, there isn’t a need for the team acquiring him to re-negotiate his present deal. The need is to look to extend it from 2011 and beyond.
Those terms are certainly negotiable.
I’m guessing that if he has to defer some money to go to a team with a shot of winning, he will be amenable to that.
WYH: the reason people might not want to believe it is that it might not be true.
Ramey & Lorenzo > Smarter then lohud and combined skinnier then Pete.
The Red Sox should release Dustin Pedroia and Kevin Youkilis. The midget and the YMCA wanna-be act gets old after a while. They need a new act.
> and
Nick-
How could you be so cruel as to suggest such a thing?
Lorenzo,
You play for the Yankees? If not, why are you concerned how the rest of the league feels about “us”?
Nobody associated with the Yankees care. Nor should you.
If you are looking for Blue Jays perspective on a Yankee blog, I think you took a wrong turn somewhere.
SJ44-
I guess we’ll see.
Bottom line for me, is, though, I would rather win with Joba and Phil than with Halladay. How’s that?
SJ44 July 8th, 2009 at 3:58 pm
Lorenzo,
You play for the Yankees? If not, why are you concerned how the rest of the league feels about “us”?
Nobody associated with the Yankees care. Nor should you.
If you are looking for Blue Jays perspective on a Yankee blog, I think you took a wrong turn somewhere.
I’m looking for intelligent conversation about baseball, OBVIOUSLY I took a wrong turn somewhere.
Steven When you hear the owner,he didn’t sound like there was a lot more money going to be spent this year. He sounded jealous of the money the YANKEES SPEND,that’s all I’m saying.
They can break the bank for all I care.
You guys are making me laugh so hard that people in my office are lookigng at me
Every year there’s a prime player made available for teams that believe he’s the player that can be a difference maker.
This year’s player happens to be Halladay. Other names will surface for rumors the closer July 31st arrives.
I happen to agree with what Lorenzo is saying. I mean nobody really knows what Halladay is or isn’t thinking. Maybe he has no desire to play for the Yankees? Maybe he has no desire to be in a Boston uniform? Coming up with 9 million trade ideas, or saying we have the most money to pay him only gets you so far.
The fact of the matter is Ricciardi will trade Halladay where he wants, only if it’s in the best interests of the Blue Jays. He can easily just as well hold onto him for the rest of this season and re-evaluate things in the off-season when team needs are presented.
The Angels are losing John Lackey after this season, you don’t think they’ll think of trading some prospects for him if they think their window for winning a world series is closing?
Halladay isn’t going to dictate whether or not the potential acquiring team is given a timetable to negotiate an extension. That’s solely up to JP Ricciardi and he’s already stated he wont, which means he won’t, unless he’s lying. But, that’d be something stupid to lie about, since it’ll eliminate teams willing to possibly deal with him.
Lorenzo are you the guy that just told Benigno not to say “bro”?
Then/Than
Wave,
I think Yankee fans want to win. If they win with Hughes and Chamberlain here, that’s great.
If they win with Halladay and one or other still here, I don’t think it takes anything away from winning.
The Yankees are in good position here.
The only “bad” thing that can happen is if he goes to Boston.
Other than that, its all good.
Uncle Ellsworth July 8th, 2009 at 3:59 pm
Lorenzo are you the guy that just told Benigno not to say “bro”?
Then/Than
Are you not smart enough to look over the blog? No I didn’t and don’t even know what that means. Are you the Uncle that touches your relatives?
BJ Ryan was just released. thats crzy they owe him 15 mil, the guy is terrible
Erica – does make the shopping confusing – I always factor in tax
I guess the part that sucks is working 14-16 hours a day – at least I have all of you for entertainment
I think that “Ace” is such a cool name. He’s not an ace, but he pitches like one.
Its a lot easier for Yankee fans to discuss trades between the Yankees and other teams, because we know the Yankees.
Generally speaking, who has great knowledge of the Minnesota Twins farm system? I would love to hear two days of possible trades between the Twins and Toronto if you have the knowledge
An alternate bottom line is that trading one of Joba or Hughes for Roy Halladay COULD give the Yankees a better chance to win before the Jeter/Posada/Mo window closes.
Don’t you think that will be a factor in the team’s thinking?
Man – just ignore the cranky “made a wrong turn” people – they usually just go back to where they came from
Rishi July 8th, 2009 at 4:02 pm
Man – just ignore the cranky “made a wrong turn” people – they usually just go back to where they came from
I’m not the one who said “wrong turn” to begin with.
RT @leokitty RT @kellythesier: Glen Perkins is ill so Anthony Swarzak will start for Twins tonight. Not sure yet whether Perkins can go tom.
I think my idea was the best:
30 groups, pick a team and state your case (including the Jays case not to trade Halladay)…don’t think I have the knowledge to actually do that, but it would be interesting to see what people come up with that is “fair and balanced”
Saying you won’t give teams a window is just posturing. It drives up the cost for him more. Would you expect for him to say he’ll allow for teams to negotiate? He’s got the best pitcher in the AL he is shopping. He’s going to try to get the most out of it.
Honestly, Halladay over the next 5-7 years is probably comparable to Mussina when he signed with the yankees until his retirement. A very good pitcher, but someone I would be hesitant to give up joba/phil plus more for.
Pete Abe lookalike alert:
http://www.nypost.com/seven/07.....178216.htm
Nick,
Yup. That’s why Cash said the other day, “How can I look Mariano Rivera in the eyes and take Phil Hughes out of the bullpen”.
Is it the overriding factor to do a deal? No. Is it a factor? Yes.
Especially since it wouldn’t be draining the farm to do the deal.
If draining the farm are the terms, its easy to walk away.
“Saying you won’t give teams a window is just posturing. It drives up the cost for him more. Would you expect for him to say he’ll allow for teams to negotiate? He’s got the best pitcher in the AL he is shopping. He’s going to try to get the most out of it”
How does that drive the cost up more? So teams will give up MORE to get him, only to have him for 18 months?
I would think it’d be the complete opposite. A team would be more willing to give up talent if they know they’re able to negotiate an extension
I see the Halladay debate is still raging.
And has anyone seen the New York Mets lately? The whole organization seems to have made a wrong turn somewhere.
Is it me or are there more cases of flu spreading through locker rooms than ever?
It seems so many guys are getting sick and missing time.
Moreso than I can ever remember.
Ramey
I would think it’d be the complete opposite. A team would be more willing to give up talent if they know they’re able to negotiate an extension
That makes sense, who would give up a ton of talent for a guy who MIGHT leave right away?
Lorenzo July 8th, 2009 at 4:08 pm
Ramey
I would think it’d be the complete opposite. A team would be more willing to give up talent if they know they’re able to negotiate an extension
That makes sense, who would give up a ton of talent for a guy who MIGHT leave right away?
————————
Don’t have to look really far for that one.
Brewers, CC Sabathia 2008.
Lorenzo:
1. You act like fans on this blog are trying to steal halladay. For the most part they’ve been fair in what they’d offer up if they were Cashman.
2. A couple people have written that Ricardi said there wouldnt be a window. I havent seen that anywhere. Do you have a link??
vb,
In general, I’m not for firing coaches. But this is definitely a case where they should.
I understand they’ve lost a lot of players. I understand they THINK they can’t hit homeruns in their own field. I can see that they’re struggling with their hitting.
But how can you forget the fundamentals of baseball? How can you screw up easy plays on a nightly or per inning basis?
manuel must go.
Joel Sherman stated that Riccardi wouldn’t allow a window of extension
If Halladay goes to Boston I would not be happy, I admit. However, that would be a lot of money they don’t have to spend on other things. I wouldn’t do the deal JUST to keep him away from the Sox.
it look like Mark Melancon’s stock is dropping a bit (on this site)
it is kewl tho. It is why we have a message board
m July 8th, 2009 at 4:10 pm
vb,
In general, I’m not for firing coaches. But this is definitely a case where they should.
I understand they’ve lost a lot of players. I understand they THINK they can’t hit homeruns in their own field. I can see that they’re struggling with their hitting.
But how can you forget the fundamentals of baseball? How can you screw up easy plays on a nightly or per inning basis?
manuel must go.
———————————-
Actually I think they should just keep Santana, David Wright and K-Rod then blow up the whole roster besides them. It’s not like they’ve won anything with the current crew even when healthy anyway.
SJ: It is.
Since everyone is so concerned with hygene, bugs adapt. People get sicker.
Fascinating stuff, actually.
SJ44: this is totally seperate from the Halladay discussion, but I’ve been thinking a bit about that Cashman quote ever since Wang went down again.
For better or worse, the decision to leave Hughes in the bullpen rather than keep him stretched out to start could end up being a pretty important turning point in the season.
If we get some success from that spot in the rotation for a few outings, Wang comes back on the sooner-rather-than-later end of the injury window, and Hughes does big things in the bullpen, the decision looks really good.
If that spot in the rotation ends up being a problem for whatever reason (Ace not effective, Wang can’t come back and/or can’t produce at an acceptable level) and/or if another pitcher goes down, the decision to leave Hughes in the bullpen could look pretty bad.
Then it’s less a question of looking Rivera in the eyes and more a question of looking Hal in the eyes.
Bod,
If you deal Joba or Hughes for Doc, your 2010 rotation is:
CC-Doc-AJ-Hughes or Chamberlain, (whichever one isn’t gone) and either Aceves, Wang (if he still here) or someone else. That’s a formidable rotation for the next 3 years. Really, all you can plan out these days.
You have McAllister in AAA and who knows what else coming down the pike.
Christian Garcia was never in the mix because he can’t stay healthy.
====
I am more interested in a formidable rotation for the next 10 years.
Having seen McAllister, I can assure you he is not in the Joba-Hughes conversation.
If that’s your point, then you’re just validating my argument. We have some great young arms (Banuelos, Marshall, Heredia, Vizcaino, etc) that we can turn to, hopefully in a few years.
Joba and Hughes are young guns who are pretty much ready for prime-time. Assuming they stay healthy, they’ll be off innings and pitch counts in two years and could be flourishing, alongside CC and AJ – the veteran starters whom we acquired without giving up the two Stradivarius violins in the house.
Everyone has been gushing about our pitching staff being the best in baseball, and despite some early-season issues, we stand a game out of first place.
Since the advantage we possess has already been reflected in the standings, I cannot but see a desire to acquire Halladay at the cost of Hughes or Joba as gratuitous and reckless, and lacking in vision.
There is no need to violently disturb the eco-system that was put in place here just to pile on – we are well-disposed to win now without trading a host of tomorrows for today.
Plus Joba and Hughes are not just formidable young arms, they are the symbols that Cashman hopes will define his tenure: a dynasty built on pitching from within.
You make a big deal about planting a magnificent garden, and then you go in and just hack out the twin saplings that you know are going to bear the most fruit? I don’t think so.
This would be a complete sellout, and not worth some literal guarantee of a couple of cheap titles – especially because there are no literal guarantees.
I can’t believe I’m having the same debate from 2007.
If you need more, consider that Halladay is 32 years old. He recently had groin issues.
You deal one of those kids, and maybe Halladay comes up lame. At 33.
What then? Do you gut more arms in the system? Because you don’t have any ready to move into the rotation for a few years.
Its not that much money. You are set at 22 million for the next 18 months. That’s nothing for a big market team like Boston.
The extension? The 3-4 years is certainly workable.
You don’t do the deal just to keep him away from Boston.
However, it doesn’t help the Yankees, short term or long term, if he goes to Boston.
The Red Sox have plenty of money. They signed Youk, Pedroia and Lester to reasonable deals.
They had the cash to offer Tex 172 million over 8 years. They could commit the money to doc and still have more to upgrade the team.
Like the Yankees, doesn’t mean they do it. But, they do have the means to do it.
I’m not being sarcastic when i say I can care less what Joel Sherman says. When I see a quote directly from Ricardi I’ll half believe it. It’s bad business to not give a window. He’ll get more in return if the team knows they’ll have Halladay for more than 18 months.
“I just loved the idea that if you were in McDonalds or something and the sign said “Soda $1.00?. You actually paid $1 and not $1.08. Amazing”
Movie theatres (at least near me) have figured this out. if the sign says soda = 4.75, you pay 4.75. of course the tax isn’t extra because they’ve already added it in along with their 500% profit.
We can turn this league around
And bring back all of those happy days
Put the Red Sox down
It’s time to celebrate
The trophy will shine
And we will find
A way to come together
Our rotation will be better
We need a Halladay
Halladay, Celebrate
Did anyone see the Jays out right released BJ Ryan? Kind of weird, he has another year left at a HUGE salary.
true that country club…the funny thing is, Ricardi very well could have said that to Sherman. he could very well say it publicly, but that doesn’t mean it’s true. as yankee fans we should understand the concept of a GM saying one thing and doing another. Cashman is a pro at this…and not because he’s a lyer, it’s all just posturing for the best deal, which is their job
Lorenzo, are you always this angry and obtuse? It’s biased for the Yankees because…brace yourself now….it’s a yankees blog. Therefore, we favor the yankees…gasp.
It may not be a bad idea for the Mets to grab BJ Ryan. They need all of the help they can get
“Glen Perkins is ill so Anthony Swarzak will start for Twins tonight. Not sure yet whether Perkins can go tom.”
A rookie righty. Eww.
He’s faced the Sox this year and gave up only 4 hits- 2 of which were HRs to Varitek. How is that possible?
BJ was sitting at 84. He’d make the Mets worse, not better.
if Cashman picks up the phone, and refers to Riccardi as a ‘PIMP’ in their convo, does the asking price for Halladay increase or decrease ?
discuss…
Bod, a groin issue is a far cry from a career threatening injury for a pitcher. No pitcher pitches for the same team for 10 years. You can count on your fingers the pitchers that are in the same league as Halladay. You make every stride to get him if at all possible.
new post re: pitching change
the word obtuse always makes me think of The Shawshank Redemption…fantastic
Liriano going tomorrow
Nobody projects rotations 10 years out. Nobody.
The Red Sox, the supposed “model” for developing young players, has ONE homegrown guy in their rotation….Jon Lester.
They have TWO 40+ year olds, and Brad Penny.
The goal is to build a dominant pitching staff. You don’t do that predominantly with kids.
You plan 3-4 years out and hope you get lucky.
Zach McAllister will pitch as a #4- #5 starter in a ML league rotation. He may even end up a #3 for a non-playoff type of team.
Nobody is saying he is Hughes or Chamberlain. What he is though is a guy who can certainly fill the back end of a Yankee rotation in the future.
The Yankees are also never going to have an all-homegrown rotation. Mainly because their goal is to win the WS, not win the Baseball America Prospects of the year award.
Even the Dynasty team rotation were loaded with trade/free agent pitchers. Andy Pettitte was the only true, homegrown pitcher in that rotation.
If the Yankees roll out a CC-AJ-Doc-Hughes or Chamberlain-Wang or Aceves rotation over the next 3 years, that’s as dominant as it gets.
It takes nothing away from any youth movement.
It uses their farm system the way they did when they won championships. Some guys stayed, some guys were packaged for better players.
That’s how you are supposed to use your farm system if you are the Yankees.
Nick,
Well said re: Cash’s comments.
Sup, Piiiimp! Yo, Yo I’ll take that stud off your hands you just name yo price. Holla!
I think Halladay to the Yankees is a slam dunk deal for Cashman and the organization. This guy has proven that he can pitch in the toughest division in baseball for years now. People shouldn’t get too attached to his age here, just because he is 32 doesn’t mean he is going to be over the hill by 2010. He is one of the hardest workers in baseball. Just ask AJ Burnett. Although developing a farm system is essential, you produce guys with the hope they amount to what Halladay is now. He is the finished product. The guy wants to win 300 games and will be pitching for the next 8 years. Who is beating the rotation of Sabathia, Halladay, Burnett and Pettitte?
Joba, Cano and Jackson for Halladay.
CountryClub
July 8th, 2009 at 3:20 pm
Banuelos is a good prospect. But he’s being greatly overrated. His ceiling is limited.
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Limited by who?
As far as Halladay coming up lame, its just as likely one of the kids will come up lame before Halladay.
Age has nothing to do with it.
Phil has had more injuries the last 3 years than Dco. Joba’s injury history since college is more extensive than Doc’s.
EVERY pitcher, young and old, is a risk.
In fact, the way Doc pitches has less of a chance to come up lame because his mechanics are better than most young pitchers and he pitches to contact and maximizes his pitch counts.
Age isn’t the injury barometer. Ask Christian Garcia. That poor kid is always hurt.
DB
July 8th, 2009 at 4:23 pm
Bod, a groin issue is a far cry from a career threatening injury for a pitcher. No pitcher pitches for the same team for 10 years. You can count on your fingers the pitchers that are in the same league as Halladay. You make every stride to get him if at all possible.
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So you’d give up Joba or Hughes, Montero, and let’s see – they said they also would want an established position player – Cano – for Halladay?
That’s an up-the-middle position player who has a nearly flawless glove and is a great hitter (even though they’d probably move him to 3rd – he plays up the middle for us), the best power bat possibly to ever come out of the Yankee system, and one of two studs good enough to front the rotation for the next decade?
For a 32 year old starter?
When you already HAVE CC and Burnett?
Is that what you’d do?
Yankees have more than enough prospects to trade for Halladay if they wanted to. Monetero, Jackson, Melancon, Romine, Mcallister, Hughes.
Erica – always OPPC
July 8th, 2009 at 3:59 pm
You guys are making me laugh so hard that people in my office are lookigng at me
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I’ve been busy today so im just getting a chance now to catch up on the blog…but this tends to happen to me too
Erica – always OPPC
July 8th, 2009 at 3:59 pm
You guys are making me laugh so hard that people in my office are lookigng at me
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I’ve been busy today so im just getting a chance now to catch up on the blog…but this tends to happen to me too
halladay in this rotation would be awesome. I just dont know if im willing to give up joba or hughes. But obviously we would have too. I just hope he gets traded to an NL team!
oo the good old double posts, can I tell you guys how much I LOVE my work computer?
Last week on huffingtonpost.com,I read an article on GOLDMAN SACH,partners with the Yankees,they make a minimum of one hundred million a day (1OO,OOO,000.) from elaborate computer investing codes,John Henry can’t compete.
HOPE THEY TRY!!!
Joba/Hughes + Montero/Jackson + Cano = HELL to the NO!
I’m not saying Banuelos can’t be a legit starter. But if people think he’s a #1 or #2 type guy they’re mistaken. That’s just my opinion. Not a big deal. there’s nothing wrong with being a # 3 – 5.
CountryClub
July 8th, 2009 at 4:34 pm
I’m not saying Banuelos can’t be a legit starter. But if people think he’s a #1 or #2 type guy they’re mistaken. That’s just my opinion. Not a big deal. there’s nothing wrong with being a # 3 – 5.
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In other words, you’ve never seen him pitch, huh? Nobody is listing as any # in the rotation.
Nobody has said they would give up that much for him.
I said I’d give up Chamberlain-Pena or Nunez (whomever JP wants as his SS)-Romine and a lower level minor leaguer for Doc.
Montero is a dealbreaker for me. If JP insists on Montero, you walk away.
I say Chamberlain over Hughes simply because I think JP would probably go for the higher ceiling guy. If he wants Hughes instead of Chamberlain? I’d have to get Brandon League or Jeremy Accardo back in the deal to balance off the loss of Hughes in the pen for this year.
That’s why I’d move Chamberlain before Hughes.
They would still keep Hughes (or Chamberlain), Montero and either Pena or Nunez.
In other words, every guy they deal, they have a replacement for in the system AND they get Doc.
That’s what I would do. Not the popular position but, if that offer would be accepted, I would make that trade.
I would extend him 3 years (2011-2013) and defer part of that salary to fit into the payroll. His 2009-2010 remaining salaries will stay the same, regardless of where he ends up.
My 2010 rotation would be: CC-Doc-AJ-Wang-Hughes.
Aceves and McAllister would be #6 and #7.
I’d say that’s a pretty good balance between youth and experience, homegrown and outside the organization types.
hughes (and i love him) + brackman + melky/gardner + cervelli/aa sp
halladay makes us better this year and next
nyy is built to win now, not in 5 years
SJ44 July 8th, 2009 at 3:12 pm
Mo’s successor is not in the organization at this time, IMO.
I don’t believe anybody from within will end up replacing him.
When its time to get a closer, they will go outside the organization to get one.
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if its soon. Joakim Soria.
SJ144, that package makes sense without giving away the store. Whether the Jays would take it is another question, something which is not a surprise to you. And, based on attitude and development, I’d want to keep Hughes rather than Joba in the deal. I still really like Joba but have some questions about his mental approach to the game (which will most likely get fixed in the next couple of years, he’s only 23).
I don’t think many understand what Halladay brings. He is not only the best pitcher in baseball, but he makes the entire team better. It is no accident that the Blue Jays can bring in young guys and have a conversation with Doc and suddenly be better than their minor league numbers. Don’t believe me, ask AJ Burnett.
Not only is he the best picther, he is also the best teacher especially by example.
My post was deleted?!??!
Toronto City Will Not Be Pretty…The Haul for Halladay…a Pity
Unemployment 10%+
Economy Hurting
Huge Talent Halladay but Huge Contract…nobody wants to pick it up!
Todays world…
Young inexpensive high ceiling players are more valuable to franchise survival than a single super great pitcher with a hughe contract and over age 30.
Toronto will not get 3 super stud players/prospects in this market…the world has changed people…Halladay is too big a pay day!!!
Toronto is in a fiscal squeeze!!!