Sweeping up after a sweep
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- July
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My story on tomorrow will be on the bullpen, specifically the ease with which Phil Hughes has assumed that late-inning role. It’s not a stretch to say that is one of the most important developments of the season to date.
Give a listen to Mariano Rivera here:
He says about six times how much he loves the work Hughes is doing and how confident he looks. The veteran players are impressed with how Hughes has handled himself since he was taken out of the rotation. He has pitched in any role, done his job and not called any attention to himself.
I never got riled up about Joba Chamberlain pumping his fist. But it is nice to see a 23-year-old act like a veteran out there.
In talking to Hughes, he thinks the biggest thing is that he is staying healthy and getting out big league hitters consistently. He has never been able to do that before.
Here is Hughes, talking about his new role:
The Yankees have won eight straight on the road for the first time since 1998. We all know what happened that year.
This team isn’t going to win 114. But they’re 51-34 after 85 games. That’s six games better than last season.
————
Since you asked: Jonathan Albaladejo was awarded the belt by commissioner Johnny Damon. This is the first time Albie has held the title. It’s funny how fired up the guys are about that.
Nick Swisher had on a beige pinstriped suit with a black shirt. He looked like an extra in The Untouchables.
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How does the Yank Bullpen stack up agaiinst Bostons over the last month? anyone?
Next time someone mentions that so and so pitcher has won so and so many game we should all laugh in their face.
This is why; if at the beginning of the season they would have said that at the halfway point Jonathan Albaladejo would have only one less win than Joba and Wang put together, we all would have thought that the yankees would be in last place.
Goes to show that win loss record of pitchers matter much less than other stats out there
Who could have seen Phil Hughes being this good coming out of the pen? Not me!
The question is, will he stay in the pen, or will he go back to starting next year?
“This team isn’t going to win 114. But they’re 51-34 after 85 games.”
——-
but 100 wins is now a realistic probability
Yankees ‘pen ERA: June-2.63. July-1.67
Sox: June- 3.82. July-2.18
just saw my neighbor (sox fan) in the local tavern and told him him to be careful, that we were nipping at their butts.. he said, yeah, but we have a better a bullpen. i don’t think so.
Pete I beg to differ with you.Phil and ACE are both pleasant surprises this season,ace IS A TRUE FIND!!
“How does the Yank Bullpen stack up agaiinst Bostons over the last month? anyone?”
———
I think the Sox pen gave up more runs in 2 innings of the Baltimore game than the Yanks pen has given up in the past month.
OK, you can’t tease that about Swisher without providing a picture!
looks like Melky’s peaked for the season, just like the past 2 seasons. it’s all down hill from here, he’ll be hitting .240 in a matter of weeks.
Thanks Tom
plus note: Yankees trail Boston by a game despite being 0-8 against them. One could argue that puts more pressure on the Red Sox (without getting into head-to-head play)
Why would anyone care about Boston’s BP. Papelbon is unravelling as he should and that’s it. Don’t turn into a Boston fan, it’s demeaning. Next, you’ll start chanting “Boston sucks”.
it was inevitable… melky is a 4th OF.
“but 100 wins is now a realistic probability”
If the Yanks keep winning at the pace they have been winning since ARod came back, and Boston does the same, the final standings would be:
Yanks 102-64, Boston 98-64.
I’d be happy with that.
Can Cody Ransom go 1 game without making an error what a bum. Also nice job by Robertson getting Mauer out. I thought he was going to blow the game open with the bases loaded. Robertson got Mauer and Morneau out but walked the 1 2 hitters in the lineup. Once Robertson gets his command down he will be a very good reliever.
Oops, I meant Yanks 102-60, Boston 98-64.
Great job Yankees for sweeping the Twins! I was at the game last night and they looked great even from the second deck at the crusty Metrodome. Did you know that if you have a ticket for the 2nd deck they won’t let you go to the first level to get any pictures? Hopefully next year when we are sitting outside it will be as nice of a night. Goodbye dome and go Yanks!
Who could have seen Phil Hughes being this good coming out of the pen? Not me!
The question is, will he stay in the pen, or will he go back to starting next year?
—————————————————–
Pepitone,
If, by some miracle, the Yankees manage to get both Roy Halladay and Aroldis Chapman then Phil Hughes could be in the bullpen for life.
I agree…I don’t think anyone could have envisioned Hughes moving into the ‘pen and doing so well.
Pete if Swisher looked that bad,he’ll be fined in court. That’s one of the penalties.
102 wins isn’t good enough.
I predicted 103.
Pete, I can’t wait to read that article. The book on Phil was that he was a mature kid, even in HS, and that’s proven to be true. I couldn’t be happier for him that he’s stayed healthy and has had a chance to show what he can do. I really hope people don’t think his success is purely because he’s pitching out of the pen. Phil looked different as a SP from the beginning of ST and he was making excellent progress in the rotation before being plucked from it and being inserted in the pen. It makes me feel good that he’s getting noticed by the vets…….and for the good he’s doing, not the issues he was having earlier. If Mo give you his seal of approval, you’re doing ok.
Glad Alby got the belt – he’s done a very nice job since being recalled and I think he can be a solid piece to the pen. Robertson should now be relegated to mop up duty or garbage time.
I think if the Yankees get Roy Halladay, Phil Hughes becomes a fulltime starter…in Toronto.
With Chapman’s violent motion, one of these days that arm will fly off.
Getting the sweep against Minnesota was big. Yankees always have trouble playing the angels on the road. You like to see the yanks win 2 out of 3 but if they get 1 win against the angels you take it. A 4 and 2 road trip against the twins and angels is pretty good.
Most important developments of the season in chronological order:
1. Nick Swisher’s fast start
2. Melky’s late inning heroics
3. Cervelli bringing the team back from the dead
4. Arod’s return
5. Teixiera’s hot streak
6. Aceves emergence as a bullpen ace
7. Cervelli bringing the team back from the dead
8. Hughes emergence as a bullpen ace
9. GGBG getting hot
Damon, Jeter, Cano, Posada, Sabathia, Burnett, Pettitte Rivera were all givens when the season started so it goes without saying that their contributions have helped the team.
big win because now we put the pressure on Boston to win tonight against KC. I think part of the yankees improved clubhouse atmosphere is the fact that they are comfortably in second place, enough so that they don’t need to worry about the Rays passing them in the immediate future, and they also do not need to worry about Boston catching them in the division. It seems like the 00’s as a decade for the yankees has been defined as either playing with incredible pressure not to drop their division lead to the sox, or to make a miraculous run to the postseason (14.5 back). Now finally the yankees can just relax and play ball, and are having a good time doing that.
Gardner is making it really tough for the yankees to justify bringing up Austin Jackson any time soon. The yanks probably do not want a stud prospect playing off the bench, but they definitely don’t want to lose Gardner’s bat/OBP in the lineup right now.
JVCELT
Did you nip him in the butt,then and there?
Right now, sit back and enjoy.
It’s been far too long since we’ve had a team this good and this much fun to root for in the Bronx.
Phil giving the Yankees lots to think about.
I hate this bullpen experiment because I wanted Phil to be a starter. But there seems to be some potential for him to be the future closer. Would be kind of cool for Phil to follow in Rivera’s footsteps…
The Ghost: you didn’t make the qualification, but those are only positive developments.
The Perils of Chien-ming Wang have been very important too, but negatively.
I’m not concerned about the Angels.
Click click click
oh wait! do well oiled machines click?
I suppose they could.
10
Damon making silver spoon Phil a man.
We have a fresh Tomko available for tomorrow
I know much of the media and talk radio speaks of Hughes as a revelation in the pen and how it really turned his season around.
The problem with that notion is that it’s revisionist history.
Hughes was pitching very well before he was ever sent to the pen and Girardi and Cashman loved the way he was throwing the ball.
So they decided that they didn’t want to send Hughes down and instead hoped he would continue attacking hitters and put him in the pen because he could help the team.
He’s the most talented arm out there not named Mo so it’s not such an enormous shock that Hughes has taken the role by the horns.
I remember Francesa saying the day that decision was made and he said that Hughes wouldn’t translate to the pen very well because he’s a starting pitchaaaaa.
It was a predictably stupid notion at the time and it’s looks even dumber now.
Next season we’re probably going to be debating whether guys like Jeremy Bleich and Zack McAllister are more valuable in the rotation or pen.
Pedro just signed with the Phillies
~Timboat
Yankees had a winning record against the Indians year before last,and still beat the Yankees when it counted.
~The RS shouldn’t get too smug.This Yankees team is finding ways to win!!
http://candeladeportiva.com/in.....;Itemid=68
Good point, Uncle Ellsworth. Without Johnny Damon’s well-chosen words, Phil might be sitting in Scranton daydreaming about his pampered past.
m July 9th, 2009 at 6:04 pm
Phil giving the Yankees lots to think about.
I hate this bullpen experiment because I wanted Phil to be a starter. But there seems to be some potential for him to be the future closer. Would be kind of cool for Phil to follow in Rivera’s footsteps…
————————-
I’m of the opinion that you go get a closer when you need one. There’s nothing written in stone that says Mo is going to retire after the 2010 season.
If he wants to return for 2011, I don’t think the Yanks are going to say no.
The Phillies are that desperate for pitching. Pedro wasn’t exactly pitching well for the Mets…
even though he does have a nice butt, that is not my preferred style. i choose to admire his wife’s, actually.
M, I disagree. Phil is lights out in the pen because he’s very talented. If the Yankees ever think of converting him permanently……….well, it’s just asinine and there are other words I could think of that I can’t post
Nick in SF
July 9th, 2009 at 6:11 pm
Good point, Uncle Ellsworth. Without Johnny Damon’s well-chosen words, Phil might be sitting in Scranton daydreaming about his pampered past.
Beer and Skittles or in Phils’s case
Champagne and Polo
That ballpark and Pedro are not going to mix well.
GF, is that your only reason for not grooming Phil to be a closer? That would surprise me.
Longterm I see Hughes as a starter just like I do with Joba because I doubt Pettitte will be back next year that will open up a spot for Hughes. But Hughes is filling a need and doing a great job out of the bullpen. The yanks need to trade for a setup man in the offseason like a Huston Street. They cant rely on guys like Jose Veras or Edwar Ramriez like they did this year.
interesting to see if Pedro does better than Roger did in his storied return – for a lot less cash
Phillies signing Pedro = desperation
Feinsand doesn’t make things up. This isin’t George King we’re talking about.
Phillies signed Pedro to give them more leverage in the Roy Halladay negotiations.
GF,
Exactly right.
Hughes came of age prior to the move to the bullpen. What the bullpen has done for him though is make him a featured guy on the team.
He’s been so good in that role, he now has bigger responsiblities with the team. More responsibility than he would have had being the 5th starter the rest of the way.
In terms of his evoluation as a pitcher, that’s going to benefit him in a big way when he goes back into the rotation next year.
Folks get too caught with innings limits, pitch counts, etc. Some are almost robotic in their knee jerk reaction to any thinking that’s outside the box.
In the “old days”, you didn’t develop pitchers via pitch counts and innings limits. You did it from the bullpen out. Work them out of the bullpen and then slot them into the rotation. For guys like Jim Palmer and Jim Kaat, they will tell you that’s the right way to develop young arms.
Those two guys forgot more about pitching than I will ever know. When I have a question about pitching, I always ask them and they always seem to have an intelligent answer.
The most important components when developing a young pitcher are confidence and success.
You can always pile up innings in the minors. However, confidence and success at the major league level does wonders for a young pitcher.
All you have to do is look at the body language of Hughes and Chamberlain on the mound and you will be able to pick out which guy is having more success at the present time.
You can be the toughest guy in the world and convince yourself nothing bothers you. However, you keep struggling, it bothers you.
Conversely, you keep succeeding, you build off it. That is what’s happening with Hughes right now.
I’m with GF: it may be mildly suprising that Phil is doing quite as well as he is, but really, it just shows again that someone with his talents and upside as a starter will probably look great coming out of the bullpen.
Would anyone be shocked to see CC, AJ, or even Andy doing really well in 3 and 4 out stints? I don’t think so.
I thought the Phillies were going to get Halladay? maybe Doc can be their closer. Lidge is toast this year.
Betsy July 9th, 2009 at 6:17 pm
GF, is that your only reason for not grooming Phil to be a closer? That would surprise me.
————–
No, I wouldn’t groom Hughes as a closer either way.
Joba and Hughes both need to be in the rotation long term as far as I’m concerned.
I was in favor of leaving Hughes as a starter and sending Wang down to the minors to continue his rehab.
I still think that would have been best for the Yanks, Wang and Hughes. Then we would have Hughes in the rotation, and Aceves in the pen right now, which despite Hughes tremendous bullpen work would have been better than Aceves starting and Hughes relieving.
Too late now, of course, but that’s the way I wish it had played out.
Right now Hughes in the bullpen fills the team’s needs the most, so I’m down with that.
Going forward, both Hughes and Joba are starters until they categorically prove they cannot handle it.
Oh, I know what Phil looked like as a starter. And I know what Joba looked like as a reliever.
But if you were to find a closer within the organization, who else can you picture in the role? Certainly not melancon. And Joba’s a stataaahhhh.
I’m all for Phil being a front-line starter, just was thinking out loud.
Wow:
Phil in the pen:
17 IP, 7 H, 2 ER, 3 BB, 18 K, 1.05 ERA, 0.58 WHIP, 9.52 K/9
LOL crazy #s….
GF, I didn’t think so…….I just already see some folks on various boards starting to ponder Phil as a closer and I don’t get it myself.
Aceves doesn’t translate to pitch the back of games because he isn’t a swing and miss guy. Somebody like Hughes does because he is a swing and miss guy.
In the end, when Hughes goes back into the rotation next year, he will be a much better starting pitcher.
He will realize that he doesn’t have to nibble and his stuff is good enough to get big league hitters out. I also think he he will be in attack mode more often because his results will give him the confidence to stay the course with this style of pitching.
I wish Joba would go back to that style of pitching and not fall in love with trying to trick people. It would make his development move along faster than the current snails pace its on.
To young Master Hughes’ credit, I’m not surprised by his success.
With Swisher’s apparent fondness for that old Zoot-Suit style he’d be a great canditate to reprise the classic “Hit-Man” poster that Mattingly did for converse.
But you know….without the actual hits.
Does “Walk-man” work?
Why certainly not Melancon?
What excites me about Phil is that he paints the corners with outstanding velocity. It really is something to watch – pitching like that is a beautiful thing, it really is.
I can’t wait to catch the replay tonight…..
Joba is a starter in Toronto’s rotation, you mean…..
“Right now, sit back and enjoy.
It’s been far too long since we’ve had a team this good and this much fun to root for in the Bronx”
and it is no conicidence, that this renaissance has coincided with a youth movement. Yes, youth is providing all of the ‘intangibles’
Phil Hughes
Aceves
Phil Coke
Brett Gardner
Melky
Cervelli
Pena
They aren’t going to need a closer for the next few years. If Mariano keeps pitching like this, he will keep pitching beyond 2010.
When the Yankees need a closer, they will go outside the organization and get one. They won’t entrust that role to a kid.
Nick,
maybe it is melancon, but he seems to have taken a step backwards.
just thinking out loud. no harm, no foul!
Do snails crawl in reverse?
Betsy,
That’s part of the reason why Phil would make a good closer in my opinion.
As far as I know, his control and location have been his calling card (of course we didn’t see it much when he was having troubles).
First of all, good stuff Pepitone, I’m glad we are good. I know I can be a real bastard from time to time but I have a ton of respect for every Yankee fan on here.
Second, I agree wholeheartedly with Guiseppe Franco and SJ44, Hughes really showed up prior to going to the bullpen. For whatever reason, Yankee fans love to obsess over the 8th inning and due to that obsession it’s been overlooked how good Hughes was in the rotation.
Third, I think it’s set in stone that Hughes is now the 8th inning guy for the rest of the season and will be in the rotation in 2010. I don’t think he stays in the bullpen past this year. Mo isn’t slowing down and has shown no signs that he will anytime soon. It isn’t worth it to groom a closer before we need one.
Finally, I agree with Wave Your Hat. While Hughes has been great in the bullpen I think it would have been for the best if he had stayed in the rotation. Ideally the Yankees would have left Wang in the minors for longer or, failing that, DL’d him a second time with a phantom injury. It would be very nice if Hughes was stretched out and starting games for us right now.
My question to all of you is, what if another Yankee starter goes down with an injury? Do you stretch out Hughes at that point and put him into the rotation? I can’t see any other solution if say Pettitte goes down.
My second question is, do the Yankees still make a trade for another reliever? I think they should.
Ideally Wang comes back in a month and is the old Wang. Hughes is your 8th inning guy. Ace goes back to the bullpen and is a jack of all trades.
Behind Rivera you’ve got Hughes, Bruney, Coke, (whoever Cash trades for), Aceves and one of Melancon/Robertson/Albaladejo/Marte.
Sorry for the long post but if you can’t tell, I’m psyched about our Yankees right now and still think they can take 2 from the Angels
vinny-b (RIP Air McNair)
July 9th, 2009 at 6:31 pm
“Right now, sit back and enjoy.
It’s been far too long since we’ve had a team this good and this much fun to root for in the Bronx”
and it is no conicidence, that this renaissance has coincided with a youth movement. Yes, youth is providing all of the ‘intangibles’
Phil Hughes
Aceves
Phil Coke
Brett Gardner
Melky
Cervelli
Pena
—————————————————-
I agree you can throw Cano in there too. But the yankees do have a lot of good young role players who are helping this team win I think they been missing that for the last couple of years.
As they were dressing to board a plane to California, a player asked, “Are we in the Halladay thing” and what will it take to get him”?
Answer to the first question , “Yes, as always”.
Answer to the second question, “A lot”.
Courtesy of the NY Post.
what about waiting for venditte as a closer. i know the yanks brass don’t think of him in that role but given his recent success maybe he can translate that into the big leagues. only time will tell though if they let him develop that way and give him that opportunity.
Melancon hatred makes me sad.
He might flop, he might never be good enough to close, who knows.
Hopefully the Yanks will know what they have in him in advance of any discussion about a successor… as they saw what they might have with Mo.
SJ44
I hope AJ tells Cashman to get him
don’t mean to rain on parade, but who exactly is our fifth starter ?
No way the yanks get Halladay. Its going to take Montero Jackson or maybe Hughes I doubt Cashman wants to give that up.
Worry about the 5th starter after the break.
After the Joba stuff last year, I don’t think there is any scenario in which the Yankees would stretch out Hughes in season to go back into the rotation. He’s in the pen for the rest of the year.
I do think they will kick the tires on Halladay. They have to because they know they have what it takes to get him and they know what getting him would mean.
I also think they will shop around and see if a guy like Jarrod Washburn can be had as a back end of the rotation guy.
If Halladay doesn’t happen and they can get Washburn, he could be a guy that could give them 7 decent second half starts and then work out of the pen in the post-season, if they get there.
They may also give Mitre a look if he continues to build arm strength.
I think one thing that was going against him for the Twins start was, he’s a sinkerball pitcher and they probably didn’t want him pitching on turf. Sinkerballers and turf are not always a good mix.
Also, if Marte is getting close, by “close” I mean 2-3 weeks away, it takes away the need to find another lefty for the bullpen.
That means, they will probably look for a starter at the deadline rather than additional bullpen help.
And, it just keeps raining all over the Mets. Fernando Martinez just went on the 15 day DL with an inflamed knee. Now’s the time for some team to take advantage of their need for a healthy player.
It’s called the Earl Weaver school of pitcher development as the last famous practicer. Very successful, (later practiced by Minny). Loved that feisty meeny tormenting the umps. Pure theatre.
It won’t take Montero to get Halladay. The team that gets him won’t have a Montero-type in the deal. JP knows that.
I still believe that Hughes needs to polish his changeups to be successful as a starting pitcher, and I’m a bit concerned when he will do this if he continues in this role.
Of course the big league needs always take priority, but in the long-term, I hope we are not going to regret about this year.
The Yankees don’t need a 5th starter until July 21. Its not something to worry about now.
I’m more worried about Joba being able to give them some innings tomorrow night. 6+ would be nice.
Anyone listening to Mad Dog Radio right now? Sounds like Chris blew a gasket and fired Steve Torre on-air…not sure if he’s kidding or not.
Yankees will sign Papelbon when he becomes a free agent. He said he wants to hit the market and Boston still can’t beat the Yankees in a straight out open bidding war. When have the Yankees ever lost out to Boston on a free agent they targeted?
[Dice-K was a sealed bidding auction so that doesn't count.]
Betsy, 13th Man, The Ghost and Rebecca:
Fantastic posts. Totally agree.
Jose
July 9th, 2009 at 6:36 pm
what about waiting for venditte as a closer. i know the yanks brass don’t think of him in that role but given his recent success maybe he can translate that into the big leagues. only time will tell though if they let him develop that way and give him that opportunity
————————————————————
Venditte isn’t a major league type closer, except as an emergency. He’ll be more like Albaladejo if he gets to the Major leagues.
but that’s assuming Papelbon is still any good by then.
hey, i’m also worried about our third and fourth starters, which come the playoffs will be important
My prediction is that Halladay stays put for now, or goes to the NL.
I think he will demand a restructuring of his contract to waive his no-trade, and he’ll want $20MM+ for 4 to 5 years.
I don’t think Boston will give it to him. I think they want that money for their offense. They wanted Tex, didn’t get him and probably still want a player like Tex more than they want Halladay.
I don’t think the Yanks will give it to him, either, because it will play havoc with their payroll, and I don’t think that the package they offer would be rich enough in prospects to get the deal done for JP. The Yanks won’t offer Joba or Hughes plus Montero, and anything less won’t get it done for JP, I predict.
I could be wrong on any of it, of course, but that’s what my crystal ball says.
what kind of circus play did Murphy make on last night’s Mets game?
on is in
I’m convinced at this point that things like money and payroll mean nothing to the Yankees.
I think Washburn is going to be in demand. And that Zurincik? fella seems pretty shrewd. I wouldn’t want them to give up too much.
I was hoping they’d get him last year. I kind of had the feeling Cash was writing the season off when he didn’t get another starter.
Don’t think he would have mattered anyway. He wasn’t going to make up 6 games in 2 months.
our bullpen is a mess for tomorrow, do you think they send someone down and bring someone like edwar up?
he hasnt been that bad recently but then again the angels always seem to own him so that might not be a good idea lol
loved how we pieced the win together today! GO YANKEES!
m-Just looked through the comments. Why don’t you think Melancon could be a closer? Because he struggled a little bit in his debut in the bigs? WAAAAY too small a sample size to decide anything with.
Bronx Jeers-Six games in 2 months is not an impossible defecit by any stretch of the imagination.
http://newyork.mets.mlb.com/me.....id=5485207
fun
and Torre has lost a step
It’s a pleasure to visit this place…not a troll in sight. The Yankees are taking us on quite a ride and I can see that we all appreciate it! I hope they keep it up in Anaheim. Thank you, Pete and posters for all of your great comments…so fun to read!
This feels like ground hog day all over again.
Big time prospects with two plus pitches will dominate in the bullpen. They only have to see hitters once a game and the two pitches will be all they need to get them out.
These same guys will struggle while showing flashes of brilliance as starters. They will need to truly master that third pitch, learn how to make things work when only one of their pitches is working on a night (like AJ yesterday), how to set-up hitters for at bats later in the game, etc., etc., etc. These things will take time and they will not dominate as starters while going through this process. HOWEVER, when they do get it together, they will be the most valuable commodity in all of baseball: Young, front-end, cost controlled pitchers. Ask the Giants what they think about Tim Lincecum’s value right now. I really don’t think they would prefer to have pitch (deep breath)THE EIGHTH INNING (thunder clap, loud organ music).
We as fans can not let the confirmation bias of seeing them dominate with two pitches out of the bullpen and struggle with consistency while starting cloud our judgment. Until guys with the ceiling and stuff of Phil Hughes and Joba Chaimberlain prove that they can’t be front end starters, they should be developed to be front end starters.
I agree that stretching Phil back out at this point because jerking him around like that just cant be could for his arm. We went down that road last year with bad results.
But next year, back into the rotation he goes. For once, I agree with Mike Francessa: PHIL HUGHES IS A STAHTIN’ PITCHAAAAH!!!!!
And so is Joba Chaimberlain. At least until they prove otherwise over the next couple of years.
Only on the Nationals: They can become the first team ever to have a pitcher win a game and not even be in the organization.
“Ideally Wang comes back in a month and is the old Wang. Hughes is your 8th inning guy. Ace goes back to the bullpen and is a jack of all trades.”
patrick-
i don’t see wang coming back the way he was. without getting into it, he’s never had success with the present coaching staff. he was coached from outside the organization right through the second 19 win season in 2007. cashman really has no clue what wang is all about.
i expect wang to stagger along with the coaching he’s going to get this year and show some promise at times, but never really get it back until he leaves the yankees which i hope is as early as this winter.
it’s better for him and for the yankees to part ways with the approach cashman and eiland are taking with him.
the arm injury was the final straw for me with the way they’ve handled him this year. they know how to coach fastball, slider, curve, change up guys. they should get these kind of traditional guys that eiland understands as he’s clearly has no idea how to coach the sinkerballing wang.
the yankees obviously have enough without him because they haven’t really had him the whole year and are a half game out of first.
GB7-Okay, I’ll bite. Why is that?
Rebecca–Optimist Prime–Montero Fanaticus Primus July 9th, 2009 at 6:03 pm
Right now, sit back and enjoy.
It’s been far too long since we’ve had a team this good and this much fun to root for in the Bronx.
——————————–
quoted for effing truth
Bronx Jeers-Six games in 2 months is not an impossible defecit by any stretch of the imagination.
———————————————————–
No I’m talking about 1 starter adding 6 wins to the total.
I.E.
I don’t think they would have won 95 games instead of the 89 they did just because they had Washburn for 2 months.
randy l.-I don’t know. You’re really ready to give up on the idea of Wang as a Yankee after half a year of struggling?
I understand your reasoning and that you don’t think he’s done as a pitcher but let’s face it, we have no idea why he’s doing bad, he could get it together in a snap and I’d rather not give up on him.
Bronx Jeers-In that case, yeah I guess I’d agree.
SJ44,
If another starter goes down you’d pick Mitre over Hughes as the fifth starter? I’m of the opinion that a starter is more important than a reliever and that a reliever is easier to trade for. Washburn will not come cheap, he has really raised his stock this year.
If another starting pitcher goes down I think Hughes will have to be stretched out.
Yankees will sign Papelbon when he becomes a free agent. He said he wants to hit the market and Boston still can’t beat the Yankees in a straight out open bidding war. When have the Yankees ever lost out to Boston on a free agent they targeted?
……………………………..
Papelbon? Yanks need Papelbon like they need Sidney Ponson.
Mariano Rivera will still be pitching lights out long after Papelbonehead has retired. And I say that only half facetiously.
Mariano will still be pitching great into his mid 40’s, just like Gaylord, just like Phil Niekro, and just like Warren Spahn. He’s that good!
Rebecca-This team is just fun to watch.
If we make the playoffs, who wins the division is irrelevant IMO.
Pepitone-I have to disagree. Everybody declines. Mo will too. I hate Papelbon, but I’d only be fooling myself if I said I didn’t want him on my team if Mo were not here.
It is very possible that Mo could still be here by then, but if he is not then I’d unfortunately be fine with a Papelbon signing.
Last comment seems like an oxymoron, doesn’t it?
Given a choice of Joba or Phil as the centerpiece of a Halladay deal today, I’d send Joba.
Phil is showing major league composure / maturity and willingness to work with his catchers. Joba has shown little of the above up to this point.
Maybe Joba needs a reality check with the Halladay rumors and see the error of his ways. Let’s hope so for the sake of his career.
randy, I wish I could believe Wang’s arm injury was really the final straw for you, but how can I be sure you’re not bluffing again, like when you went “all-in” on saying that Eiland was deliberately messing with Wang’s arm slot before we found out he wasn’t?
If we want to pinpoint the moment when Wang stopped looking like the Wang of old, maybe you’re correct and it happened when Wang had to drop Neil Allen as his Facebook friend. But it seems sort of possible that the moment was when Wang hurt his foot in Houston.
I guess we’ll have to wait and see how Wang looks later on. Maybe you still have a couple more straws up your sleeve.
Wait till they come to OUR house AGAIN
July 9th, 2009 at 7:01 pm
GB7-Okay, I’ll bite. Why is that?
————————————————————
Joel Hanrahan was yje pitcher of record when rain suspended the May 5th game between Washington and Houston. He was traded to Pittsburgh a couple of weeks ago.
But, never mind, the Astros just tied the game.
I dont see how the yankees can count on Wang anymore this season, he didn’t look too good before his arm issues. The yanks need to add another starter doesn’t have to be an ace like Halladay maybe someone like an Erik Bedard. I dont like Jarrod Washburn because he is the exact same type of pitcher as Andy Pettitte.
I’d have to send Hughes. Joba’s upside is way higher than Hughesie’s.
“If another starting pitcher goes down I think Hughes will have to be stretched out.”
……………………………….
Patrick, I agree ……… You can get up off the floor now.
Seriously, Hughes is pitching so well right now that I don’t believe he would mind what role Girardi had for him. His confidence is sky high. We have a great young pitcher in the bullpen who can start, why go anywhere else, including Washburn.
By the way, I don’t like Washburn, he reminds me too much of another pitcher that was hot and cold, Mike Witt.
the pen is not a mes for tommorrow this rote bs needs to stop.
mo threw 11 pitches. the games starts 10 pm NY time about 28 hours after Mo’s last pitch. Hughes also did not throw many pitches..guys they can throw 2 days in a row. also bruney is fresh, coke threw to 3 batters, they will be fine.
hughes will be a starter next year, as he should… BTW being a reliever is much easier to do then be a starter, ie hughes and joba dominate as relief guys…..
the yanks are on a roll….aceves needs to stay in the pen, period………
Randy,
Yes we know what your feelings are regarding the way the Yankees have handled Wang. However, the truth is, he looked good in his last few starts before getting injured. The Yankees didn’t cause his shoulder injury. I think it’s very possible that Wang comes back good as new but I’m not counting on it and that has nothing to do with yankee managment and everything to do with the nature of his injury.
was the pitcher of record,
The Nats are so bad that they can’t even make bizarre baseball history.
“If we make the playoffs, who wins the division is irrelevant IMO.”
I don’t think that way anymore after the 2005 ALDS.
A.J. Burnett: His All-Star break kind of started after last night’s start, but he was at the dome at 7:30 this morning and running steps soon after. And after his start last night, A.J. made a point of seeking out Francisco Cervelli before he left. What did A.J. say? He offered encouraging words and thanked the young catcher.
http://kimberlyjones.mlblogs.com/
If Wang doesn’t come back strong I wouldn’t be surprised if the Yanks non-tendered him next year. I never would have believed that could happen.
BTW the yanks are not getting hallady it is not happening so throw out all the retarted trade proposals you want.
the yanks are on the verge for finally having good prospects for the first time in 10 years they are not shooting there wad on a 32 yr old that they control for 16 months..
montero 3rd rated prospect in baseball.. the guy is 19….
ajax 37th rankes the guy is 22..
BTW giving up on melancon is not wise decision, but I do not understand why the yanks will not give him another peek.. really having tomko around for mop up situations is that important…………….
GB7-Hahaha, that’s funny.
The Nationals are somewhat ridiculous.
Not to beat a dead horse, but even more ridiculous is that we’re one game out of first and we lost two of three.
Joba turned up lame in season last year. Even the slightest thought that stretching him out in season caused his shoulder problems will keep the Yankees from stretching out Hughes in season. As it should.
He’s not leaving the pen this year. If they need another starter, they will deal
Vince
July 9th, 2009 at 7:08 pm
Given a choice of Joba or Phil as the centerpiece of a Halladay deal today, I’d send Joba.
Phil is showing major league composure / maturity and willingness to work with his catchers. Joba has shown little of the above up to this point.
Maybe Joba needs a reality check with the Halladay rumors and see the error of his ways. Let’s hope so for the sake of his career.
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Joba showed major league composure/maturity last year and in 2007. Joba showed composure going into Boston and outpitching Beckett last year. He’s been struggling the last couple of starts, did people think Joba would not ever struggle in his career and not have up and downs like every other young pitcher. To trade Joba because of his couple of rough starts would be ridiculous.
The bullpen tomorrow is a mess if Joba repeats his last performance. Otherwise, they have a fresh Bruney along with Robertson, Albie, Coke and Rivera. I don’t know if they’ll use Hughes three days in a row yet, if so he’s available too. I didn’t mention Tomko for obvious reasons, but he will be the sacrificial lamb if Joba implodes early and the Yankees are behind a bunch of runs.
It would help if Joba goes 6+ innings tomorrow.
“He’s not leaving the pen this year. If they need another starter, they will deal”
What if Andy Pettitte gets hurt on August 1 and is out for the rest of the year.
Hughes would get stretched out, mark my words…
Wait till they come to OUR house AGAIN
July 9th, 2009 at 7:13 pm
GB7-Hahaha, that’s funny.
The Nationals are somewhat ridiculous.
Not to beat a dead horse, but even more ridiculous is that we’re one game out of first and we lost two of three.
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It just proves the Joaquin Andujar line about baseball. There’s 162 games and anything can happen in them.
“Joba turned up lame in season last year. Even the slightest thought that stretching him out in season caused his shoulder problems will keep the Yankees from stretching out Hughes in season. As it should.”
I don’t know if it should, but I think you are right that it will.
“I understand your reasoning and that you don’t think he’s done as a pitcher but let’s face it, we have no idea why he’s doing bad, he could get it together in a snap and I’d rather not give up on him.”
Wait till they come to OUR house AGAIN-
the yankees let him pitch out of a high arm slot for this whole season. it never really came back down to his natural arm slot. if that isn’t the recipe for a sore shoulder , i don’t know what is.
there was clearly something wrong with him, but they kept running him out there. i don’t believe that they couldn’t have made up a phantom injury to get him back to triple a and rehab where he needed to be.
from the time he was injured it’s just been a botched affair, but the treatment of wang by cashman goes back way before that. wang was extremely unhappy with cashman long before this year. he’s just not going to say it to the press. cashman has neverliked the way wang pitched when he had success.
he had bought into the stathead belief that wang needed to get more strikeouts and actively tried to have his coaches change wang. it’s been going on for a long time behind the scenes.
in my opinion wang is done as the yankee we knew. the yankees are going in a different direction and wang just isn’t going to fit in since they know nothing about how to coach him.
I’m with SJ44, I don’t think the Yankees will stretch out Hughes again this season. He’s too valuable in his current role and they don’t want to risk another Joba type injury situation.
“It just proves the Joaquin Andujar line about baseball. There’s 162 games and anything can happen in them.”
True that.
randy l.-Intelligent post.
I don’t know enough about this to judge, I just hope they wake up and figure it out before it’s too late.
Any trade that included any of our young prospects, in the minors, or up here, would be regressing to the old ways.
Take a look at the roster, other than Jeter, A-Rod, Damon, Jorge, Molina, and Andy (I’m not including Mo, because he’s ageless) our entire roster is under 30 years of age. We are building a powerhouse here for years to come. I love Roy Halladay, would love to have him, but not for a price of Hughes, Jackson, Montero, or any other combination of that stature. No way!
I think this team is showing lately how talented they are and the damage they can do out there. It really shows how underachieving they were with those losses to the Nats and Marlins. Phil Hughes has simply been dominant and has really anchored our bullpen along with Mo. Starting pitching has been very good for the most part, lineup has been good, and Jorge Posada is really shutting me up lately. If he can keep this up the rest of the year and the next season also, wow. That throw he made today was sick. Let’s hope they keep playing this well and everyone stays healthy.
whoa whoa whoa, now it’s the Yankees’ fault that Wang hurt his shoulder? Randy, you are taking your conspiracy theories a bit too far.
Agreed with Pepitone. I don’t want another high paid player in his 30’s. I especially don’t want to give up a ton of young talent for said player.
Who will be the better starting pitcher 3 years from now? Hughes? Or Chamberlain?
I think it will be hughes.
Benny Blanco-I say Joba.
“The Yankees didn’t cause his shoulder injury.”
patrick-
the yankees had him pitch all of spring training without having measured his lower body strength after cashman told him to do nothing all winter.
that was what caused the resulting shoulder injury .
the lower body weakness caused him to lose his normal arm slot and be almost a foot high at times.
cashman is negligent for knowing wang was injured and telling him to do nothing until he healed over the winter and then didn’t bother checking to see if he was healed and up to full strength before pitching him like anyone else in spring training.
the yankees most certainly created conditions that were conducive to causing the shoulder injury.
just like they caused joba’s shoulder injury last year by stretching him out too fast.
despite what you say in your allegience to cashman, teams can hurt pitchers and in wang’s case they did.
wang , for his own sake really needs to move on.
No offense randy but I don’t really trust your analysis of what caused Wang’s shoulder injury. Due to your preexisting biases towards the organization and also due to the fact that you don’t have a medical degree (as far as I know) I don’t see why we should believe that his arm slot caused the shoulder injury.
It really is a baseless conclusion.
I don’t want Wang to “move on” and I don’t think the Yankees want him to either.
When Wang is back in August dealing and when he’s back next year winning 17 games I’ll accept your apology on Cashman’s behalf
It’s tough to point fingers for Wang’s injury. I do think that the Yanks mistreated this guy though. I mean before this season he was a few decisions short of qualifying, but he would have had the all time greatest winning percentage (granted in just 3 seasons). I think after he returned from the DL he immediately should have been put back in the rotation, instead he wasn’t and his confidence which was probably already shot only got worse. I do think he was making strides, this injury is rough for him, but I wouldn’t count this guy out in the future. If he’s healthy and confident he’s one of the best. Jorge and Wang have to make a conscious effort to have him throw more sliders, though. He has an above average one and it helps keep the hitters honest with the sinker.
I can’t say for certain if the Yanks helped cause Wang’s shoulder injury but I can say unequivocally that the Yanks did completely foul up Wang’s rehab – twice.
Cashman admitted they told him not to do his normal lower body regimen during the offseason because of his lisfranc injury.
That lack of work on his legs is what exacerbated Wang’s issues in April because his velocity was way down and didn’t have the strength in his legs to drive the ball.
The Yanks told Bruney the very same thing over the offseason and he’s had elbow issues all year.
Maybe these issues are related or maybe not. But I certainly wouldn’t be surprised if it turned out to be the case.
The only thing I have to say is why would a team be so malicious as to intentionally cause a player’s – a successful one at that – injury? Because, Randy l, that’s pretty much what you’re accusing Cashman of doing. Because he didn’t strike out enough hitters?
I’m not saying they handled his foot re-hab well or not, I have no idea. They got advice on a rare baseball injury and followed it in good faith. I will agree that perhaps they should have been more aggressive in noticing what was awry in spring training, but it’s also understandable that they believed inactivity and rust was to blame, and that as soon as he got back to strength he would be fine.
I believe they figured even if he wasn’t 100%, it would work itself out with time and pitching, but who could have imagined he be as bad as he was?
And the only thing I fault them for was having him come back from SWB too soon.
But he was making progress and even you mentioned here that he was making progress, that his arm slot was improving his velocity was improving and it was probably a matter of a couple of starts before Wang was close to back.
He has a history of shoulder problems.
It is incredibly unfortunate that his shoulder got injured. Especially since up to that point, he looked to be even closer to the Wang of old.
Instead of ranting about how Cashman is negligent, perhaps the shoulder injury is a blessing in disguise, because now he can rehab properly.
I know you hate Cashman, but you are assigning motives to him that I simply choose not to believe any GM is capable of.
“The Nats are so bad that they can’t even make bizarre baseball history.”
Except that they did.
Joel Hanrahan pitched the top of the 11th before the game was suspended. Afterwards he got traded to Pittsburgh.
When the game was suspended, Elijah Dukes was on second base. He’s in AAA now. So he was replaces by Nyjer Morgan, who came over from Pittsburgh in the same deal that sent Hanrahan to the Pirates. Morgan scored on a botched double play.
So the winning run was scored by a guy who wasn’t on the team when the game started, making a winning pitcher out of a guy who not only is no longer on the team, but was basically traded for the guy who scored the winning run. Bizarre enough for me!