Today in The Journal News
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- July
- 9
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A.J. Burnett had to battle but he and the Yankees beat the Twins.
Jose Molina is back and Francisco Cervelli was optioned out, a job well done. This notebook also has updates on Derek Jeter, Xavier Nady and a schedule switch for soggy Triple-A Scranton.
Alfredo Aceves is realizing his dream with the Yankees.
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Dave Cameron at Fangraphs has a lot of love for Brett Gardner.
As a champion of GGBG going back to last season, it’s good to see the metrics support that. Gardner obviously has his limitations offensively. But as baseball changes, players with speed and defensive skills will become more and more valuable. Gardner is an elite defensive player in terms of the ground he covers.
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There were 2,547 comments on the blog yesterday and 90,000 page views. Aren’t you people supposed to be on vacation? As always, we appreciate the support.
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on Thursday, July 9th, 2009 at 8:15 am by Peter Abraham.
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Chad Jennings
Sam Borden
Josh Thomson
I love this blog Pete. Can’t watch a Yankee game without it.
If you look at Gardner’s numbers from Mid-May on, he’s been one of the best CF’s in the league the last two months.
He is definitely a weapon and he’s getting better.
A lot of fans who love names ripped the Yankees for not acquiring Mike Cameron. Cabrera and Gardner have more than held their own in CF.
AJ was terrific last night because he had to battle all night. People questioned whether the guy could compete without his best stuff and I think we’ve seen this year that he can – last night was just the most recent example. Yesterday could have been a bad outing, with AJ having just one pitch that he could trust, but he made it work – an example of him growing into a pitcher rather than just a thrower?
I really like Posada and AJ together, too – though Jorge did have a hard time with AJ’s curve last night,lol.
Also, LOL I just read AJ’s comment about how he settles himself down with humor when he’s struggling. Y’all? You can take the boy out of the south, but not the south out of the little boy. I guess…..
M, I posted that Kim Jones blog last night – brings tears to your eyes, doesn’t it? Boy, I love these kids……….and he said such nice things about CC and AJ. I know that AJ has been a mentor to the kids and I’m sure CC has as well – it’s priceless information that they are passing on.
I’m sure Jorge wasn’t laughing – he didn’t have time, he had to concentrate on where AJ’s pitches were heading, lol
Love this quote:
One pitch at a time no matter what happens or how mad you get.”
we are on vacation.
we just happen to have a computer near by.
love this quote.
“i’ll be back & i’m taking pena with me”
by cervelli
“If you look at Gardner’s numbers from Mid-May on, he’s been one of the best CF’s in the league the last two months.
He is definitely a weapon and he’s getting better”
SJ:
you right.
I expect Yankee fans remember a time, when NYY and their fans covetted this type of CF’er on the open market. This was the same year, Aaron Rolen came into Yankee Stadium and conducted a clinic.
now we have our center-fielder. And he’s home grown
AJ can go Nuke LaLoosh at any time but, he battles out there.
That’s all you can ask of a pitcher.
They aren’t always going to be “on”. But, if they battle, you have a chance to win.
Never really dazzled by Gardner’s arm. Seen him make some god throws but also seen him make some putrid ones. Always thought his arm was hit or miss. Thought his value would be tied more to his range than arm.
SJ:
Notice your nephew is off to a nice start to his pro career. Congrats.
The thing with Gardner is, let’s say they don’t sign Damon….
Gardner can play LF if Jackson is ready to play CF.
If you have those two guys in left and center, they can cover a lot of ground.
Or, reverse them and have Jackson in left and Gardner in center.
Either way, the D gets upgraded big time and you add speed to the lineup.
Its nice to have options that’s for sure.
I think Clemens once said that he went out to the mound only a few times with his best stuff and sometimes he had nothing. The days when he was in-between were the days he enjoyed because he had to really pitch and fight to get through it. That was like AJ last night. I like that he’s so competitive that he curses and berates himself for being so “off”, but that he was able to channel that emotion properly instead of falling apart.
I need to watch Bull Durham – or at least the scenes with this Nuke LaLoosh,lol
Great story on Ace
Gardner has been a very pleasant surprise – actually, I’m shocked with both him and Melky. Credit goes to both of them for thriving on the competition instead of sulking
Sign Carl Crawford to play left, put BG in center, Jackson in right
Can we mix gardner’s speed with melky’s arm…?
Steve B,
Thanks. So far, so good. He’s livin’ the dream.
I think CF arms are overrated because its hard to throw out guys from CF. Most times guys with big CF arms seem to throw the ball away more than anything else.
Bernie couldn’t throw for years but won Gold Glove’s because he could track everything.
Plus, the way OF’s are positioned now, they play so deep, its just about impossible to throw people out because of such positioning.
GGBG has been good and still getting better, i never wanted mike cameron and im glad we didnt trade for him!
Betsy,
If you watch Bull Durham, you will see what I’m talkin’ about.
AJ really is Nuke LaLoosh without Susan Sarandon as his GF! lol
I was someone beating the drum to sign him because I thought he would take to the challenge of playing in NY.
I got to know him a bit when he played with the Marlins and I always thought he got a bad rap.
He was a bit crazy but, he was a kid playing in South Florida, living near South Beach, and in a ML rotation.
Who wouldn’t be a little crazy?
I just felt the influence Doc had on him would serve him well in NY. So far, so good.
Mike Cameron is hitting .248 78 strike outs!
I’ll take Melky and Brett right now.
my only concern with an outfield of ajax & gardner is absolutely zero power.
now if we have one of the three with power it might be possible but swisher & melky???
i am not saying that we need power but it would be nice to have one of with good power & one with decent power.
Cervelli’s a revelation. He’ll be missed. But, as he said, he’ll be back. I like that he was thinking of Pena, too. I especially like what his teammates, most notably Posada and Molina, had to say.
I watched Baseball Wives last night. Close games make me nervous, so I watched the show and switched back to YES at commercials.
It was fine. Jorge was extremely moving when he was talking about his son.
And the show went to lengths to say how much baseball players miss because they’re on the road so much.
Here’s the thing. The baseball season is approximately 7 months long. Half that time is on the road, half that time is at home. So they’re only not home about 3 months of the year, in total. The other 5-ish months of the year, they are home FULL-TIME.
I’m not saying it’s not grueling. I’m not saying it’s easy for baseball wives to cope with their husbands being gone during times when they really could use them home. But there are millions of other husbands who travel for their work or who work shifts or who simply work long hours who miss important events and school plays and holidays, etc. These players are highly compensated for the “inconvenience” playing baseball causes in their lives.
The ladies were all lovely and charming. I actually liked them and enjoyed the courtship stories. At the end of the day, they’re just people who happen to be in the baseball world. They deal with things that all of us have to deal with.
I’m thinking of the time I had to take my daughter into a specialist in NYC and she was maybe 7 years old at the time. And tiny. And they had to give her this stuff to do a test and they had no bedside manner and I heard my daughter screaming. And then on the drive home, my daughter vomited in the car. My husband had to work that day. I was on my own. We dealt with it. I’m sure many of you moms and dads have similar stories. So, what I’m saying is I empathize with these ladies, but they don’t deserve a pedestal unless we all get one.
The other thing that struck me was: Scott Proctor did not smile once. Not once during the entire time he was shown, and it was quite a bit. Maybe a quarter smile. That was it. And Cole Hamels is really a cutie.
“Mike Cameron is hitting .248 78 strike outs!”
ouch. some of the best trades are the ones you dont make!
did proctor have problems with alcohol??
I’m not sure an outfield of Melky, Gardner and AJax would give the Yanks enough production at the plate. Would that matter or should the Yanks try to trade one of the three? I’d imagine Melky has never been worth more.
SJ,
Imagine if the Yanks found a way to sign Carl Crawford after 2010?
It’s completely fantasy on my part but you can only imagine how good their outfield defense would be and how much faster they would be with Crawford, Gardner, and Jackson out there running all over the place like a bunch of greyhounds. Damn.
Jackson really doesn’t have the arm for RF everyday, but then again, neither does Swisher.
And man, that trio would steal a ton of bases. Not enough power, however.
It will never happen, but boy, that would be fun to watch everyday.
Carl July 9th, 2009 at 8:39 am
Sign Carl Crawford to play left, put BG in center, Jackson in right
————
Looks like Carl beat me to it.
Austin Jackson will hit 15-20 HR’s in the majors when he fills out.
Look at the Dynasty Teams. Bernie was not a huge HR hitter.
Many times, LF was a platoon position and they didn’t garner a ton of power from that spot.
Even Paul O’Neill was not a classic HR hitter.
As long as you have Arod and Tex in the middle of the lineup, with guys like Posada, Cano and when he’s ready Montero, the power is going to be there.
Teams are getting more and more into run prevention. They are putting as much stock in run prevention as run creation.
Teams like Tampa, the Angels and the Pirates for example are now drafting with run prevention in mind.
In the Post-PED Era, speed and run prevention are making a comeback and GM’s are factoring it into how they construct their teams.
Giuseppe Franco
Yes yes yes! Carl Crawfodr is the guy I want so bad Franco you don’t understand.
Does the possibility exist Jesus Montero, may be able to play right-field??
I ask this, because an outfield of Gardner/LF, and AJax/CF will need a legit bat. Sorry, Gardner, Ajax, Swisher is not happening.
LOVE this blog too…just need a Blackberry friendly link and all will be right with the world!
GF,
Yes, Crawford would be nice. If he tests FA after 2010, its certainly a possibility.
Montero isn’t light enough on his feet to be an OF, IMO.
I’d leave him at C until he shows he can’t play the position at all. Which, I might add, despite his “critics” in the sofa scout world, has yet to happen.
bru -
Unless I missed it because I was late switching back from YES, the Proctor segment did not focus on his problem with alcohol. It dealt more with time missed from family his daughter’s health problem.
They did focus on Josh Hamilton’s drug problem.
as long as the power is there as a whole.
i’d be very happy with 15-20 hr’s from each of but when it is 5-10 i worry.
hopefully that is not the case with ajax & gardner.
Melky and Brett has combined to hit .282 with 11 HR, 47 RBI and 22 SB. They’ve scored 70 runs.
Now you can’t look at that as our guy’s productivity because they are both out there about 30 percent of the time. But it does show what a nice job they have done for very little expense.
Carl — Tampa Bay has a $ 10 Million option on Crawford. Can’t seem them letting him go and paying a $ 1.25 M buyout.
SJ — Have you noticed virtually every article on Halliday says the Jays are seeking to link Wells or Rios to moving him. I can’t see Wells, who is 30 and has almost $ 100 M coming to him 2010-14, but Rios is two years younger and only has about $ 60 M coming over the same period. Whaddya think?
All three players have no trade clauses so it would get very complicated, but Rios solves the long term RF issue.
Doreen
you said proctor did not smile & i thought i heard he had a drinking problem.
i linked the two
i am not 100% sure he had a problem.
i think he did or does.
Brett is both gritty and gutty, should we expect anything less? lol
Hey, where’s the daily Halladay post?
if Ajax hits out the gate (upon being promoted to NYY) i will be suprised. I expect the yankees (and their fans) will have to exercise patience
bru -
I only recently read that he did.
“Look at the Dynasty Teams. Bernie was not a huge HR hitter.”
Bernie Didn’t need to hit HR’s, Bernie averaged over 60 XBH’s during the dynasty years and slugged over .536 each of the dynasty years.
Bernie was also the best CF in baseball during the dynasty years. Better than Ken Griffrey JR. actually.
From 1996 to 2000 Bernie was the best CF in baseball.
i just don’t see the yankees taking on both halladay & rios.
that is a lot of payroll in addition to losing some good prospects.
how much more production will rios give us??
of course the jays are going to try to rid themselves of bad contracts in hopes someone bites.
maybe we take rios & keep joba & hughes & give up lower level prospects.
we do have
pettitte
damon
matsui
molina
nady coming off the books.
if we can take rios & keep joba,hughes,ajax,montero is it worth it??
I don’t want AJax up yet. If the poor kid doesn’t hit like Bernie Williams immediately he’ll be burned in effigy by the fans.
Doreen- Maybe I’m wrong but it didn’t seem like Jorge’s segment focused so much on it. More on his courtship and his son Jorge.
bru- Proctor had other issues, like staying faithful.
Tino hit a ton of HR’s though, even if Bernie didn’t.
or wells
Carl July 9th, 2009 at 8:53 am
Giuseppe Franco
Yes yes yes! Carl Crawfodr is the guy I want so bad Franco you don’t understand.
———–
Crawford is the guy I really want as well. People suggest Bay and Holliday and I always cringe.
I’d like to see the Yanks fill LF next season with a one-year stop gap and really go after Crawford when 2010 is over.
If we have to take Rios or Wells I would have to pass.
Holliday has proving to the world that he’s a Coor’s Field hitter. I don’t get the fascination with him.
Bay is getting too old. No way would I want Bay. so I guess I’m with Carl and Franco on Crawford.
86,
I did see that.
Here is the Jays dilemma though….
If you start linking bad contracts in a Doc deal, you reduce the number of good prospects you get in return.
In theory, JP would LOVE to find takers for those deals.
Problem is, if someone does that, his return becomes much less than if he just had a stand alone Halladay deal.
For example, let’s say the Yankees tell him, “No on Wells (they will never take back that deal), yes on Rios”….
There is no way the Yankees would include Hughes or Chamberlain in that deal because they are picking up almost 80 million dollars (Rios and Doc’s remaining money), AND will need to sign Doc to a new deal.
To that end, the Jays would have to then take back Swisher and a lesser overall package of prospects because the Yankees would want some financial relief on the Swisher deal to make it work.
JMO but, that complicates things for JP.
As it is now, although people are tagging the Phillies as “favorites” in this, its pre-mature for a couple of reasons:
1. If they get him, their payroll gets close to 150 million. Do they want that? They can win that division without Doc and once you get in the playoffs, anything can happen. As we saw last year.
The Phillies don’t strike me as a team willing to become a 150 million dollar team. That’s outside their business model. Do they adjust that this year? We shall see.
2. Early reports say Kyle Drabek is untouchable. If that’s true (and it could be ALL posturing) they don’t have enough prospects to land him.
The Yankees are in a GREAT position. They don’t HAVE to do the deal. But, if they decide to make a run, they have the pieces to do the deal, the money to get it done, and the depth in the system to absorb the losses.
Its going to be very interesting to see how it all shakes out.
“Tino hit a ton of HR’s though, even if Bernie didn’t.”
It was only one year Tino hit a significant amount more of HR’s than Bernie, that was 1997.
Every other year he hit 2 or 3 more than Bernie.
I really think people don’t realize just how good of a player Bernie was.
I still believe he’s a HOF especially if Jim Rice is a HOF.
Carl-I wouldn’t have an issue with Rios.
Rios is so inconsistent with the bat and has never really shown the ability to put it together over a full season. Statistically he looks good but he goes through long slumps mixed in with the occasional hot few weeks. However he is also seemingly on the outs in Toronto and seems like a really strong candidate for a guy whose career and performance change for the better with a change of scenery.
jennifer -
You’re right about the Posada segment. Laura Posada struck me as a very strong person, not a complainer, and his daughter was quite precocious!
I’d rather have Rios/Halladay than Bay or Holliday and no Halladay.
raymagnetic-I remember one year he hit a ton of HR’s (98′ maybe?) and then the rest of the time yes only one or two moret han Bernie.
If you’re going to use Jim Rice as the measuring stick (and apparently they are) a lot of people who don’t belong are making the HOF.
raymagnetic-I agree.
in spite of some of the shortcomings in the outfield this is a well balanced team. They have power at the corners and behind the plate (as well as in RF when Swisher isn’t striking out), have some speed on the bases, and good pitching that can only get better since Joba’s been less than expected and Wang has been awful.
Baseball is a long season punctuated by streaks. The Yankees are in a good one right now, if they can extend to +20 over .500 in July, play .500 baseball for awhile, and finish strong they will win 95-100 games without looking like they’ve done much this year. Not every season is like 1998 and it’s important to remember that when Seattle won 115 games they lost in the playoffs, it’s a whole new season then.
Another thing about Tino, the only year his slugging percentage was higher than Bernie’s was 1997.
SJ44 -
Isn’t it a possibility that the Jays truly are simply interested in dumping salary, and not necessarily in getting value back? Their owner died. They don’t have great attendance. Do you think it’s possible they could be getting the franchise sale-ready?
Just a question.
As long as we make the playoffs I’m happy about our season.
95 to 100 wins is really a great season though.
Riccardi basically has two choices here:
- Get the boatload of high end prospects to really help the team
- Get rid of Vernon Wells’ $100M contract
Riccardi isn’t getting both. It’s one or the other.
And I’m not 100% sure anyone would agree to taking Wells’ $100M contract even if they didn’t have to give up much else.
There’s only a handful of teams really in this mix for Halladay anyways. If Riccardi demands someone has to take one of those big contracts as well, he’s not going to get multiple blue chippers in return.
Article on Proctor(talking about him being a recovering alcoholic)
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06.....mp;emc=rss
aymagnetic
July 9th, 2009 at 9:13 am
I’d rather have Rios/Halladay than Bay or Holliday and no Halladay.
========
Now, that’s a tongue twister!
Bernie was a great player. He had 7 consecutive years (’96-’02) of at least a .900 ops. Plus, he played a gold-glove winning centerfield.
“I really think people don’t realize just how good of a player Bernie was”
I don’t think it’s that.
IMO, it is because Bernie Williams had no right to be playing CF (full-time) on a major league baseball team, into the post-dynasty era. NYY was at least 3 years too late, in replacing him. Thank you to Joe Torre and/or whomever it may concern
New post but its Hockey, so its not a real post.
SJ44-
Assuming A-Jax is ready next year, who would you play in the OF? Would you still resign Damon, as you mentioned earlier in the year?
What if he isn’t ready?
“Melky and Brett has combined to hit .282 with 11 HR, 47 RBI and 22 SB. They’ve scored 70 runs.”
That’s good enough CF production for me!
SJ…I get that if the Jays lump Rios or Wells in with Halladay they get less in return directly from the trade, but isn’t the primary purpose of this to rebuild a team for success down the road? dumping the contracts of Rios and Halladay (which I think most would agree is more likely than Wells and Halladay) would free up a decent amount of money for the Jays to go looking for good prospects in the offseason. I guess this goes to the debate of quality of prospects vs. quantity of prospects but maybe the Jays think they could do better with more money than with a guy like Joba or Hughes.
“Now, that’s a tongue twister! ”
Doreen,
I have trouble typing it.
on wfan john hart mlb network saying that the yankees farm system is underrated.
talking about halladay trade.
the guy saying that halladay can sign with the yankees or boston anyways & if the yankees or boston offer the best deal it would be smart to take it.
Doreen,
I think in the cases of Wells and Rios, they would be salary dumps.
With Doc? No because, they have his salary slotted for the next 18 months. Its about getting as much as they can for him before they lose him for two first round picks after next year.
Alex Rios is a very interesting player. Ken Singleton’s son played with him, and is still very close with him, in the minors.
He always felt Alex needed to get into a bigger baseball city to realize his potential.
If you are the Yankees and you can move Swisher for Rios and lessen the hit prospect-wise for Doc, you have to consider it.
Problem is, if JP sells Doc light to a division rival, he will need a police escort out of Toronto! lol
You can deal Doc inside the AL East if you are getting back a Buchholz, Hughes or Chamberlain type of arm back.
Anything less than that? That’s when he will have some ’splaining to do.
“IMO, it is because Bernie Williams had no right to be playing CF (full-time) on a major league baseball team, into the post-dynasty era. NYY was at least 3 years too late, in replacing him. Thank you to Joe Torre and/or whomever it may concern”
It was really more like 1 year too late. He was still an above average CF offensively in 03 and 04. In ‘05 the last year of his contract he was awful. In ‘06 he wasn’t a full time player anymore.
Wasn’t really Joe Torre’s fault either, more like big Stein’s fault for signing him for so much money for so many years.
hockey is hard enough to talk about in season, let alone in the middle of the summer!
bru,
Try telling that to people here who believe he won’t deal him in his own division! lol
As a GM, you get the best deal you can when you deal a guy like this. If its from a division rival, so be it.
When you take less, just to get him out of the division or the league (see: Bill Smith, Twins GM), you make a bad deal.
Always, and I mean always take the best deal, regardless who its from. Anything less is GM Malpractice.
SJ44 -
So you don’t think they’re in any way getting ready to sell the team up in Toronto?
I just don’t know if the Yankees will want to give up what it takess to get him. Addition by subtraction would be getting him to the Phillies.
Or could they still be thinking about selling the team (salary dumps), but at least have a team to sell (good prospects for Halladay)?
Doreen,
No rumors to that effect yet.
SJ44 would you give up Nunez or Pena for Halladay?
yeah, I don’t see JP worrying about trading Halladay in the division. talking about trading him should be enough of an indication that the Jays don’t expect to be good for the next couple of years anyway. if halladay is dominant for the Yankees or Sox for the next 3 years or so and the Jays somehow get back to being a good enough team to make the playoffs 4 years after the trade, they would have succeeded with the halladay trade. the question is, are fans patient enough these days for JP to still have a job 4 years down the road if the Jays are terrible for the next 2-3? I doubt it.
The problem with a salary dump philosophy in the current marketplace is, nobody is willing to take on money.
That means, you have to eat money to move the guy.
Most teams in that mode figure, “If I have to pay the guy, I might as well have him play for me”.
That is of course, if they can still play at a high level. Rios can.
The Jays ate 15 million releasing BJ Ryan yesterday. That’s a lot of coin to eat.
I don’t know if they can afford to eat any more this year.
of course his other option is to keep halladay for his contract, get nothing for him when he hits free agency in which case he’ll most likely be gone anyway.
the issue for the Jays is, the only way they could put the pieces together to compete WITH Halladay, is by getting rid of Wells’ contract and using the money to put together a better team around Halladay but that isn’t going to happen.
sj i agree.
the jays are not winning the division soon,will lose halladay anyways with him signing wherever he want’s.
they will get a few 1st round picks but those picks will be years away from helping with no guarantees.
if they trade halladay for 4 prospects with one of them possibly being hughes,joba,buchholz they are getting major league ready,young very talented players or close to it.
no telling if the two picks they get will turn into anything close to what they get in a trade.
they absolutely have to take the best package available.
It’s pretty hard to find an underrated Tankee, but Bernie Williams certainly qualifies. From 1995-2002 he hit over .300 all eight seasons, averaged 24 HR and 102 RBI along with 32 doubles and 12 SB. He finished in the top 20 MVP voting six times and won four Gold Gloves.
I agree there’s no way on earth anyone takes Wells’ contract, but Rios @ $ 12 M a year isn’t prohibitive and he’s a huge upgrade defensively in RF.
I know the options for Ricciardi… dump Rios you get much less talent in the deal.. what I don’t know is what ownership has told him about dumping salary.
Does Swisher, Wang, Pena and Cervelli/Romine plus mmaybe a secondary pitching prospect get it done? Do Halladay and Rios waive their no-trades?
SJ is right.. the Yankees don’t have to make a deal, but they are very well positioned to consider making a favorable one.
Will Swish waive his NTC?
I don’t think there’s any way Ricciardi can deal Wells with Halladay. I doubt there is any team in the majors that would take that deal, no matter how good the deal is.
Wells’ contract is an absolute disaster. He’s a 30 year old CF with declining defensive and offensive skills and is owed $100 million.
This isn’t the first year he’s been in decline either. Last year he was bad and it’s only gotten worse this year. There is nothing to indicate that he’ll bounce back either.
NOBODY will take Wells’ contract, it’s just too much money for a crappy player.
Rios, maybe, but if I’m the Jays I don’t give up on that guy yet.
If Ricciardi can somehow trade Wells with Halladay he won’t get back much of anything. He certainly isn’t getting 2 top prospects and a future ace like he wants.
What will the fanbase say when they get back a bunch of crappy prospects for Halladay? They don’t care about losing Wells off the payroll, it’s not like they have to foot the bill.
If Ricciardi somehow swung that deal and got crap back the fanbase would go berserk.
In one inning of work, Papelbon threw 30 pitches. Render him unavailable and useless for tonight’s game vs. K.C.
Francona must have attended the Joe Torre Academy of Bullpen Burnout.
On the home front, Mo threw 11 pitches last night and could be available today if needed.
The Yankees goal before the All star break (and I know some will disagree with me) should be to tie or even overtake the Red Sox for first place.
they will never get rid of wells unless it is with halladay & they take a major hit on prospects coming back or they eat a lot of money.
i would love to get halladay,rios giving swisher back while keeping joba,hughes,montero,ajax & give up 4 lesser prospects like
romine
kennedy
mcallister
brackman if needed.
Yeah, the thing about Cameron is that he’s getting on base more than Gardner and he has a lot more power: 9.5% of PAs result in XBH. As opposed to 5.9% for Gardner.
Cameron homers every 19.4 ABs. Gardner every 59.3.
Right now, Cameron’s a slightly more valuable player. Gardner is the superior fielder (and obviously the younger player). But for 2009 alone, Gardner will have to maintain his hitting pace (which has been greatly helped by platooning; Cameron’s not sheltered).
Moving forward, you’d obviously take Gardner. But on the basis of info available before 2009 and the first 85 games of 2009, you’d probably take Cameron if you had to make a choice.
If someone takes Wells and Halladay the Jays will get virtually nothing in return. I can’t see anyone taking on Wells’ contract. It’s arguably the worst in baseball.
Swisher has a limited no trade that kicks in in two years.
Jays owner Ted Rogers died last year and there are indications that there is now a major need to reduce payroll. That may trump everything. Why else would they be entertaining offers for their best, most popular player?
what a mess they have with the wells contract.
they are stuck with him.
the yankees don’t have to do anything but if i am cashman i don’t wan’t halladay landing in boston.
do the jays play boston against us???????
Great piece on Ace, who seems like a really likable guy.
bru that deal would never happen.
“In one inning of work, Papelbon threw 30 pitches. Render him unavailable and useless for tonight’s game vs. K.C.
Francona must have attended the Joe Torre Academy of Bullpen Burnout.
On the home front, Mo threw 11 pitches last night and could be available today if needed.”
Not sure what you are trying to say here, but I’ve been conditioned by my television to believe the Sox never do anything wrong and the Yankees don’t know what they’re doing…
“The Yankees goal before the All star break (and I know some will disagree with me) should be to tie or even overtake the Red Sox for first place.”
I imagine the goal is to win as many games as possible and just waint and see what happens with the Sox. Coming out ahead of the Sox before the break would be awesome, but we can only controll the winning our games part.
Aren’t you people supposed to be on vacation?
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I guess most of us, like me, can’t afford a real vacation so instead we relax by following this blog.
Okay.
After reading Kim Jones’ piece on Cerveli and Pete’s on Aceves, plus all the feel-good stories on CC and AJ, I have come to the conclusion that the Yankees are a sappy team. Just plain sappy!
Brett Gardner a.k.a. White Lightning
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Commonly heard around my place when my brother-in-law (HUGE Mets fan) is over: “Uh-oh, White Lightning’s on base. Good luck with that one, Glen.”
How to get Roy Halladay by Buster Olney
If anyone has ESPN Insider, they can read the rest of this:
http://tiny.cc/T9×6c
john_halfz-How many bases does Cameron steal?
“do the jays play boston against us???????”
Yes, as mush as they play us against Boston…
john_halfz, what’s the difference in Gardner’s contract and Cameron’s? Also compare on-base percentage and stolen bases. I really have no idea what the numbers are but I imagine it would help even things out. Also I would take into account Melky’s performance along with Gardner v Cameron as each is essentially 1/2 of a center-fielder
“I imagine the goal is to win as many games as possible and just wait and see what happens with the Sox. Coming out ahead of the Sox before the break would be awesome, but we can only control the winning our games part.”
Of course. But the goal is to win as many games as possible so that we make the playoffs. Since we’re already, if the season ended now, in the playoffs, we’re chasing the division. So our goal should be to tie or take a lead in said division.
my next vacation is a long weekend in NY in August, and it’s to see Yankees v Redsox! I typically don’t wish summer away, but that vacation can not come fast enough.
I agree with you Wait…we’re making the playoffs, so on the step up list of goals, the next should be win the division…then shortly above that on the list should be win the WS…talking short term, winning games is the goal…long term it’s the division and WS
“The Yankees goal before the All star break (and I know some will disagree with me) should be to tie or even overtake the Red Sox for first place.”
Yankees really only have partial control over that so hard to set it as a goal.
There’s 22 days until the trading deadline is reached. Any Halladay talks are only in the simmer stage.
Many more names will surface as teams with low attendance / low expectations decide on how their payroll slashing will be done.
The standings show who the buyers and sellers are.
pat-Well, that is true. But I doubt (although it is possible) that the Red Sox will win the rest of their games before the break. Truthfully, I doubt it of the Yankees too. But I think it’s possible for them to make up one game.
“The standings show who the buyers and sellers are.”
The tough part about this season is so many teams are “still in the hunt” for at least a WC spot. Couple that with the economic conditions and this trade deadline will not produce nearly as many blockbusters or real difference-making trades. IF the Halladay trade ends up happening that will certainly be the biggest move made.
BTW, finishing the road trip 3-3 would be less than acceptable at this point, IMO
“Moving forward, you’d obviously take Gardner. But on the basis of info available before 2009 and the first 85 games of 2009, you’d probably take Cameron if you had to make a choice”
actually, we would still take Gardner.
him receiving playing time, permits him to develop as a player. And he provides youth to a veteran team. Statistics don’t measure everything.
“I have come to the conclusion that the Yankees are a sappy team”
Lots of talk about being a family and a whole lot more hugging than in years past.
I remember the Yanks playing the Jays last year and the Toronto pitchers all greeting the guy who came out of the game with hugs.
Seems like AJ brought good pitching, pies and hugs with him from N. of the border.
pat -
I do kinda like the sappiness.
Game thread up.
comparing Gardner to Cameron is really unfair. Cameron is near the end of his career and has no upside while Gardner is still developing. I’ve been pleasantly surprised by Gardner and see him learning from his mistakes and improving since the beginning of the year. While he most likely will never be a star, he’s certainly a good player to have on the team for his speed, decent hitting, and what seems like an ability to deliver in the clutch at a higher level than his stats would indicate (last night’s 2 out single is an example).
I’ll post the rest of the Buster in a minute
Buster:
How to get Roy Halladay
Thursday, July 9, 2009 | Feedback | Print Entry
Who is going to get Roy Halladay?
“It’s the guy who calls (Toronto GM) J.P. Ricciardi and says, ‘OK, I want Halladay and I know the price is going to hurt, but let’s get it done,’” said a baseball official Wednesday. “It’s not the guy who calls with their Baseball America list of Top 10 prospects and says, ‘I’m sorry, but I can’t talk about any of these guys.’ J.P. is the type who will stay on the phone with you 12 straight hours if he feels like he can get a deal done.”
John Schuerholz was known as an excellent trade partner in his time as general manager, someone who could make a blockbuster, because he would, in effect, broker the deal from both sides. He’d work quickly, he’d work aggressively, he’d know all the players involved, and he would understand how to make the trade work for the other team. He didn’t walk into the conversation trying to fleece the other team. Among current GMs, Kenny Williams of the White Sox is said by his peers to work as Schuerholz did, as does Jim Hendry of the Cubs, Kevin Towers of the Padres, Milwaukee’s Doug Melvin, Oakland’s Billy Beane and Cleveland’s Mark Shapiro, among others.
To read Buster’s take on what it’ll take for teams like St. Louis, Philly, Texas, Boston, New York and others to land Halladay, plus other rumors, notes and results, you must be an ESPN Insider.
If the Phillies land Halladay, they would immediately become the easy odds-on favorite to repeat as NL champions. If the Cardinals get Halladay, they would become the team most likely to break out of the NL Central mud bog. If the Dodgers were to get him, we might see Manny and Halladay dancing together at an L.A. championship parade.
We’ve heard so much in recent months and years about how teams are ever more reluctant to give up young talent, about how they are shying away from investing in players in their 30s. Well, Halladay is an exception to that, because he is the total package: Exceptional pitcher, tremendous durability, tremendous capacity to age well because of the movement on his stuff and his knowledge of pitching, incredible work ethic, great teammate, the consummate professional, an admired leader. Before this year’s draft, Ricciardi was talking about Halladay and mentioned that he had been looking over scouting reports of young players, and he realized for a moment, that if you spend a lifetime in baseball, you will perhaps be lucky enough to draft one Roy Halladay.
Ricciardi would love to keep Halladay, but the right-hander is eligible for free agency after the 2010 season and he is unlikely to re-sign with the Blue Jays. So Toronto will look to make the move now, or in this off-season. It all depends on who is willing to pay the price.
When it comes to players like Halladay, there’s no such thing as sticking a toe in the water. You dive in or you don’t get the player. So while the Phillies might want to make outfielder Michael Taylor an untouchable, as Bill Conlin writes, they would have to be willing to give up a Kyle Drabek and discuss the rest of their prospects. Or maybe they’d want to hold back Drabek — but they’d have to be ready to part with Taylor, Jason Donald and J.A. Happ. They cannot open the conversation with the Jays by listing three to six prospects they absolutely will not trade and then expect to get one of the two or three or four best pitchers on the planet.
No, if any team wants Halladay, they’re going to have to be prepared to give up a lot. The Cardinals are serious about Halladay, and a club official told Joe Strauss what he perceives the price tag to be: “Asked about the price tag for Halladay, a club source said: “Give Ricciardi all our minor-league rosters and let him circle any 5 names.”
The Brewers intend to check in on Halladay. The Phillies are serious players for Halladay, writes Andy Martino and Jim Salisbury.
The Rangers’ top-ranked farm system could help them get Halladay if they dive into the mix, writes Jeff Wilson; the Rangers will be choosy, says Tom Hicks, who is having financial trouble. Dealing for the ace would be expensive for the Red Sox or any other team, writes Sean McAdam.
In Toronto, the tone is different. Jeff Blair has a Halladay trade primer. There are only three reasons why you might trade Halladay, writes Bob Elliott.
Cameron is making 10 million this year. Gardner is making 400K.
For 10 million, you have to more than slightly better to make it worth the expenditure.
Even the Mudhens announcers were commenting on the SWB situation last night, predicting that someone’s head is going to roll. Just not sure who.