Not much to say after this one
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Jul 11, 2009 
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I’ll spare you the details. The post-game scene was one of general lament over the pitching. The clubhouse cleared out fast. A bad game tends to do that.
“You have to try and find a way to stop it,” Girardi said about the fifth inning when Anaheim scored seven runs. “We didn’t do that.”
Andy Pettitte said he had no idea what happened after the third inning. “This is just a good team and they put a lot of pressure on you,” he said.
The Yankees are 5-16 here over the last five years. They turn their lonely eyes to CC Sabathia tomorrow to try and dodge a sweep.
The Angels are like the Yankees worst nightmare…they kill us but they can’t beat the Red Sox, especially in the playoffs…the only way I can explain it is that there is a spy in the Yankees Organization who feeds Mike Soscia info on our signs, strategies, etc…how else do you explain the way they hit us, it’s crazy….like they could care less about winning the World Series as long as they beat the Yankees…..
drats
Can we move the Angels to the NL?
5-16 at Angels Stadium over the past 5 years.
How did they manage to win those 5 games?
The Angels are to us what we are to the Twins
Some teams just always beat the other team, regardless of roster turnover. Twins can’t win in YS, we can’t win in Angels Stadium.
Every team (except maybe Boston) has a team that always gives them fits year after year. Nothing you can do about it.
Maybe Figgins was on the DL or something.
Anaheim is technically not in Los Angeles.
Darrin….my thoughts exactly…
*Maybe they managed to win those 5 games because Figgins was on the DL.
If Joba continues struggle as a starter you can put him in the bullpen and you know he will be great in that role. What will you do with Pettite he was just as bad as Joba. Pettitte cant blame the new yankee stadium for this one.
I don’t like the Angels very much
Its what happens when half your pitching staff falls off the cliff.
Joba, Andy, Robertson, Bruney, TBA (the “new” 5th starter), and Tomko.
Half the staff either awful, slumping or in question identity-wise.
Snuck up on all of us but, that’s the issue facing the Yankees to start the second half of the season.
How to fix the half of the pitching staff that has fallen off the cliff?
Why do the Yankees help the Angels with their sloppy play? It’s like the Angels are in their head. Same with the Sox.
Replacing Joba with Hughes is like rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. You think Hughes won’t go through growing pains and have a rough outing where he blows a lead?
You can live with one question mark in the rotation. You cannot live with 3.
Can we jump on Pettitte now for his “They’re a good team” comments, as opposed to saying, “Yeah, after the 3rd, I stunk”?
If we’re gonna do it to Joba, we have to do it to all of them.
Figgins is a free agent after 2009.
Sign the bugger.
There was no need to waste Coke today, but it’s not a good sign when he is getting lit up too, Isn’t he supposed to be our 2nd best reliever?
Andy is a warrior, battler, and big game pitcher
He gets a pass. We wouldn’t have 4 WS without him
I still maintain that starting Aceves in that game against Minnesota was a terrible move. For one start, we could have used someone from Scranton.
The series in MN was already won, and the Yankees knew that this series in Anaheim would be a toughy. Not to mention, Joba and Pettitte on back to back nights generally means a lot of innings from the bullpen.
We could have really used Ace in one of these past two games, and he’s exactly the type of pitcher who would pitch well against the Angels because he wouldn’t let a silly superstition like them owning us get in the way of doing his job.
The team has a lot of heart.
Unfortunately, heart can’t pitch 3 times a week or get outs from the bullpen.
Hard to win with 2 reliable starters and 1 reliever.
No post game audio???
Alex
July 11th, 2009 at 8:34 pm
There was no need to waste Coke today, but it’s not a good sign when he is getting lit up too, Isn’t he supposed to be our 2nd best reliever?
————————————
Coke would of been out of the inning if Posada wasn’t being lazy and could make a better attempt to block a ball in the dirt.
“If we’re gonna do it to Joba, we have to do it to all of them.”
Pettitte is a veteran who has more than proven himself without ever having a lot of fanfare around him.
Chamberlain is rookie proving to be a victim of his believing his over-hyped status.
There is no comparison between the two.
Our rotation’s new theme song: “96 pitches (by the 4th inning)” by ? and the Mysterians.
Well, I for one, feel good with CC going tomorrow. He may not hold runners well, but it doesn’t matter. The devils have been running on us the whole series.
after climbing back into a tie with Boston, they are going to be 3 games out going into the break.. Half of that pitching staff needs to be fixed, lot of work ahead of them.
Exactly why would Figgins sign with a team that he wouldn’t be starting for? He’s not playing the infield and he’s apoor outfielder.
RS,
Agree. We could have really used him these last 2 days when Joba and Andy lost it in the 5th.
They weakened the bullpen and it showed these last 2 games. Robertson? Tomko? Melancon? Bruney?
They really need to figure out this mess during the ASB. Right now, our rotation AND bullpen have holes.
I have a question for Peter. Why does David Robertson get such a free pass on this blog? The other day when he walked in 2 runs before Mauer came to the plate, all you said about his performance was that you were starting to lose faith in him. I would hope so. Btw, how did he earn that trust? I guess striking out a few batters in low-leverage situations goes along way with you. Then today, he comes in and gives up a tidy 3 runs in 1 1/3 innings and nothing is said about his poor performance. What gives?
me
July 11th, 2009 at 8:38 pm
“If we’re gonna do it to Joba, we have to do it to all of them.”
Pettitte is a veteran who has more than proven himself without ever having a lot of fanfare around him.
Chamberlain is rookie proving to be a victim of his believing his over-hyped status.
There is no comparison between the two.
———————————————-
Veterans are not suppose to blow big leads. Pettitte did the same thing in Atlanta. But people blamed the defense I thought Pettitte was suppose to pick his defense up like people are ripping Joba for not doing.
Pete’s right – it’s no time to play Chicken Little after two (predictably) bad losses in Anaheim.
However…it’s perfectly reasonable to examine what these past two games have highlighted: the Yanks pitching staff is strong at the top and bottom (CC, AJ, Mo & Hughes), but not adequate enough in the middle. While it’s feasible to win a championship that way (see: 2001 Diamondbacks) it’s not going to be good enough this year in the AL East.
My gut tells me that the top of the rotation will be fine in the 2nd half, but our 3,4 and 5 starters are too shaky. Assuming no deals are made to shore up the back-end starters, it looks like the offense is going to have to carry a heavy load down the stretch.
“Andy is a warrior, battler, and big game pitcher”
I can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic, but the mental aspect of that is certainly true of Pettitte. The problem is he just doesn’t have the physical stuff right now to get the job done.
If only Andy had Joba’s stuff, or Joba had Andy’s attitude…
the Yankee OF might be one of the worse in the ML right now…Figgins wouldn’t hurt it that much more
“The team has a lot of heart.”
I agree. Unfortunately what it lacks is quality arms.
Take a step back, folks.
It wasn’t pretty this afternoon or last night.
However, we are still 13-4 over the last 17 games, we still have the best record in baseball since ARod came back, and we still have the wild card.
Every time we lose a couple of games or get a bad start it’s the same crisis around here. Pull up your socks and play ball, don’t go crying about getting beat.
we could possibly be 3 games back by the All-stat break. I hope not.
RS
July 11th, 2009 at 8:37 pm
I still maintain that starting Aceves in that game against Minnesota was a terrible move. For one start, we could have used someone from Scranton.
The series in MN was already won, and the Yankees knew that this series in Anaheim would be a toughy. Not to mention, Joba and Pettitte on back to back nights generally means a lot of innings from the bullpen.
We could have really used Ace in one of these past two games, and he’s exactly the type of pitcher who would pitch well against the Angels because he wouldn’t let a silly superstition like them owning us get in the way of doing his job.
—————————————-
I agree it was a dumb decision to have Aceves start in Minnesota. He was only on a 65 pitch count. He was not going deep into the game. The yanks knew he would only give you around 4 innings and it would tax the bullpen going into LA.
Yeah, why does Robertson get a pass? From everyone?
Jean Seberg
OK here it is… Robertson stinks
Andy does deserve a lot of respect – he’s a proven champ.
The problem with Pettitte (as much as I hate it) is that he’s just getting older. The man is in his 14th full season. I’m not saying he’s completely broken down, but he’s just not quite the pitcher he once was. He’s a great #5 guy right now – unfortunately, on this staff he’s being asked to be a #3 guy.
SJ – what do you think about picking up BJ Ryan as another bullpen lefty?
I read somewhere you are in the industry….what are your credentials?
I agree with everything you have said so far about our mediocre staff and the troubles the Yanks face down the stretch.
After last night my “State of the Yankees Rotation” for the 2nd half treaded dangerously close to gloomy.
But I still had Pettitte pegged as a good starter in away games.
We’re gonna cry…..cry,cry,cry
It depends on how you look at it.
They are 0-8 against Boston, 4-4 against Tampa, and 2-3 against Anaheim. That’s 6-15 against 3 teams they are fighting with for the division and/or the WC. That’s not good.
Right now 3/5th of the rotation is in shambles. Also not good.
Does it mean the season is “over”? Of course not.
However, you ain’t lookin’ hard if you haven’t seen the leaks that have sprung and not see easy solutions to the problems.
BJ Ryan’s fast ball was topped out at 86 mph
Wait for it…wait for the Robertson’s good. Girardi’s just not using him the right way…
3 games out at the break…not good.
How does Robertson get a free pass from everyone?
Meanwhile, Smoltz has 7 strikeouts in 4.2 innings up in Boston. It’s against the Royals, but still.
right now they have 5 pitchers on that staff they can count on
I wouldn’t touch BJ Ryan. He’s not solution. He’s a LH version of Brian Bruney right now. Has never come back from TJ Surgery and the scouts had him throwing 83 MPH fastballs in the Yankee series. Not the answer.
Half the problem could be solved if the guys they have just pitch better. May be a lot to ask of some but, that would help.
The other part is going to have to come from outside the organization at or around the trade deadling.
I don’t just mean Halladay either. There will be other, less costly guys on the market.
Right now, its just about them finding a way to plug the leaks until reinforcements arrive.
Great now we’re gonna be two games back, right when we caught up…all because Pettite doesnt know how to pitch…he needs to retire…NOW!
Boston killing Royals
You may have noticed Eric Hinske gesturing toward the on-deck circle as he crossed home plate on his second homer against the Angels on Saturday.
Turns out, there was a pretty good reason. As he prepared for his at-bat, fans seated near the on-deck circle kidded Hinske for looking like (in their opinion) Paul Blart: Mall Cop, the Kevin James character in the movie of the same name.
“After I did that, they loved it,” Hinske said with a smile.
http://www.nj.com/yankees/inde.....l_cop.html
CC tomorrow with Hughes and Mo ready to go, 4-6 on this road trip, kind of what we expected no?
Smoltz also had a 7 run early lead. Pretty easy to pitch against a bad offensive team with a 7 run lead.
Monday morning quarterbacking here, but starting Ace proved to be a mistake.
His presence would have stabilized one, if not both, of these games.
Ace was never going to last more than four innings in that start, and that’s best-case scenario. Now, he’s toast for gut-check time in Anaheim.
Btw, it’s too bad Hinske’s 2 appearences with the team have been losses, or else he would be a major story right now.
SJ, not sure if you saw my other question – if you put Phil in the rotation, would you leave him in when Wang returns? You can’t keep jerking this kid around – his arm’s to valuable.
The Good News – we’ve got a terrific record, the second best in the league.
The Not So Good News – there are problems that need to be fixed. Back end of the starting rotation – you can tolerate one 5 inning starter, but not two, and not back-to-back; leave the high-leverage part of the pen alone – Ace, Coke (I know he didn’t do well today, but he’s been an overall positive), Hughes, and Mo. Maybe get another arm for the pen, either Melancon steps up, or see who’s dumping what.
I don’t think the Yanks need to acquire Halladay now, though of course it would help. Brian Bannister, as suggested earlier, or Washburn, would do it. Would make sense, too, in terms of making a deal. The chip required to do that deal, though, may take them out of the Huston Street sweepstakes.
Did I see that BJ Ryan was DFA’d by Ricciardi? Wonder what it would take to pick him up. He’s lefthanded, too. But if not him, maybe one of their relievers. We might get help there, cheap, if JP is in the dumping mode.
After these two games I put the Angels back as my second most despised team behind the BoSox.
You just KNEW that no matter how many runs the Yankees put up early and often it wasn’t going to be enough. The Angels nonchalantly coming back and coming back reminded me too much of games 3-5 in 1995 ALDS and (yuck) much of the 2004 ALCS.
I’m not looking forward to October if it means the Yankees have to face the Angels in the first round again. Can’t explain the difficulty in beating them since it’s not even the same team that ousted the Yankees twice.
SJ – all your points are perfectly legitimate. But again, in your own words, it depends on how you look at it.
I never pay attention – never – to regular season head-to-head performance. MLB has proven year after year that the only important thing is getting to the dance. At that point, anything goes. Whoever gets the hot hand wins, period.
Remember ’07? We’re playing Cleveland – Yay! We always beat Cleveland! Remember ’06? Yay! We’re playing Detroit – we always beat Detroit! (In fact, I’m already getting the sweats thinking we’ll end up getting the Twins this year in the post-season. Yay! We always beat the Twins!)
My only concern is: can this pitching staff be good enough just to get to the dance? If yes, I won’t give a single thought to our head-to-head with Boston if we meet in the ALCS. By that point, it won’t matter, IMO.
Hughes needs to stay in the pen the rest of the year, they need Andy & Joba to get deeper into games & still get a 8 inning RP & a vet SP who eats innings…WOW!!!!! not asking for much
Is there a 3-way trade that possibly gets Halladay to the Bronx? MLB reported that there are teams out there with young, under-control players that Toronto would like to have but the teams cannot afford the Halladay/Rios $$.
SJ, they also played very well against Texas. I have no questions about the quality of this team, none. It’s a very good team. They definitely have issues – but you have always thought they did and that the Yankees would take care of them. They will have to work a bit harder now to plug the leaks you speak of, but it can be done. A few days ago, I think you said that the Sox couldn’t be too happy being tied (or 1/2 games up) considering they were 8-0 against the Yankees. That still holds true…….and Tampa is still behind us, that’s a fact.
Just got in. Spent the day at Dave and Buster’s with my neice and nephew. Because it was the Fox game of the week, unfortunately I was able to see the score when I went by the television at the bar. I first caught the score in the 7th inning. I don’t know anything about the intracacies of the game other than the fact that we lost big.
I just saw something from mel about Robertson. He never gets a pass from me.
Since I don’t know anything beyond the fact that we lost and I assume Pettitte did pitch and didn’t obviously do well, the only thing I have to say is
I miss Francisco Cervelli. I don’t know if his presence would make a whit of difference at this point, but I don’t know that it wouldn’t.
Other than that, this is pretty crummy.
Wow, and Smoltz sucked the last time out…….
At least we don’t have to worry about the Rays gaining ground on us tonight.
Yeah, Penny and Smoltz are ultra-reliable, lol
Betsy,
Smoltz had a nine run lead and it took him 97 pitches to get through 5 innings.
1. many clamored for Robertson, “Why is he not in the bigs? He deserves a shot!”
2. Cashman gave him the ticket to the Bronx
3. Girardi is using him in the wrong situation, but when is it the right situation
4. Pete pounded on Eddie & Veras, will Dave Robertson be their replacement
5. Everyone else who refuses to join the pinata party.
maybe I’m just frustrated. All the pitchers got hit hard in this series, probably a product of how motivated the Angels are than how bad our pitching is.
But those two rbi walks snapped my patience with Robertson. Veras did the same thing. The margin for error is smaller in relief, so it’s nice to have pitchers who don’t issue free passes like it’s Halloween candy.
And yes, I realize that we’re short-handed and we kind of need Robertson.
But, head to head matchups matter in a close race when trying to make the playoffs because if there is a tie, head to head matchups is the first tiebreaker used. That’s why its relevent.
Betsy.
Once Hughes goes into the rotation, whenever that may be, that’s it for him. He isn’t going back and forth.
Here is why I came around to Patrick and CB’s thinking on Hughes…..
If the Yankees had 4 solid starters and a fifth starter that was just “eh”, like everybody else, I think Hughes has greater value setting up Mariano because I think they win more games that way.
However, the Yankees have 2 solid starters, 2 guys who are, chartitably speaking, struggling. More accurately, can’t be counted on and no idea who the 5th starter is at this time.
They need to cover those starter innings lost by starters 3-5 more than pitching 3 8th innings a week.
That’s why, because of the staff blowing up, Hughes is more needed in the rotation than the bullpen right now.
Don’t know if the team agrees but, I think that’s how it looks to me right now.
The big thing that’s hitting the team is that both Joba and Wang are not carrying the load that was expected. Wang was coming off a bad foot injury, and those can be nasty. Remember Phil Simms in 1990-91 season? He badly sprained his foot, and Jeff Hostetler came in to win in the playoffs and the Super Bowl against Buffalo. Well, the next season, Phil still couldn’t compete, his foot was still bothering him. I don’t know if it was a Lisfranc, but my point is these things can linger.
Joba – I don’t think anybody saw that coming, his inability to progress.
But they have to fix those problems. Joba has to pick it up, and it starts after the ASB. If he doesn’t get it going, then I’m all for dealing for a starter. Leave Phil in the pen for now. Don’t create another problem.
Looks like we’ll keep our 4 game lead on Tampa – Oakland up by 5 in the 8th inning. The more space we can keep between up and Tampa the better.
Smoltz was rusty last time out & now he’s lubed…Bruney was suppose to be rusty also but we all know how thats turning out
Girardi has given Robertson numerous chances in high leverage situations recently and he’s failed every time.
This week alone, walked in 2 runs against the Twins. One to a .183 hitter on 4 pitches. Today, the Angels meltdown.
Bullpen work is about results. Just get them. When you don’t, you run out of chances.
My theory about bullpen guys is, you try and have one great closer, and one other guy who is good. The rest? You just work with the guys who get hot for a spell and get rid of them when they turn cold. No team has 7 reliable arms.
If you get 3, and have a couple of more guys you use when they are hot, you have something.
Cervelli would have made no difference today. Pitchers problems are on the pitchers and not on the catchers.
See: Chamberlain, Joba last night for the latest example.
SJ, I agree. I think Joe hedged a couple of days ago when he was asked if Phil was permanently in the rotation for this year. Joe said something to the effect that you can never tell whatwith injuries whathaveyou, but Joba and Andy have to be like having cold water thrown on him. If they are going to put Phil back in the rotation, they need to start soon………..Then you’d have CC and AJ, Phil…. a ? (but they can trade for a starter) and Andy. That’s doable…….I’d like them to trade for a starter now, before it gets close to the trading deadline and everything heats up.
this team the way it’s set up now the offense will have to carry them. If they get to the playoffs the offense won’t help them, then it’s all about pitching
Smoltz had a 9 run lead and had a hard time getting through 5 against a terrible hitting team. He isn’t hitting any stride.
Don’t look at the name at the back of the jersey. Anybody, even Joba, can pitch with a 9 run lead against a team that can’t hit.
Well, Alby will need to be recalled as soon as he is able and let him get his chance again. I’ve had enough of Robertson………
SJ – true, head-to-heads might be needed for seeding purposes, but the fact is the Yankees/Red Sox outcome is no longer in doubt – the Sox will win that battle.
But, of course, head-to-heads are not used as a tiebreaker in determining whether a team makes the playoffs (like the NFL). So for that reason, if the Yanks finish the season 5-13 against Boston I don’t think that would impact an ALCS in any meaningful way.
The head-to-head only matters if there’s a tie between the WC team and their own division leader. Every other scenario involves a playoff.
But yes, winning season series is important because you gain ground!!!!
Oh yeah, one more thing. My hat is off to you Betsy. You mentioned being a little nervous about the Angels series and I thought you were just being overly cautious. I actually thought we had this in the bag, that with the way we’ve been playing and especially with the specific injuries to the Angels players that there was no way they were going to beat us.
Was I surprised.
There you go Betsy, CC, AJ, and Phil gives them some semblence of a rotation. If they find another arm (Bannister for example) or get in the Halladay talks, whole different deal.
The ASB is coming at a good time for them. This team needs a bit of a rest. It will also give them a chance to figure out how to patch the rotation and the bullpen for the time being.
SJ, Moving Hughes out of the pen not only de-stabilizes it, it’ll still be weeks before he’d be ready to make an impression on the rotation…..The bullpen is only one arm away from being a lock down bullpen….Cashman needs to trade for a starter and things improve greatly….Wang is lost for 09 in my opinion…..Brian Banister would be an excellent addition, and he can be had…..Joba Chamberlain is the key & Pettite needs rest and he’ll be a very servicable 4-5 starter…..Moving Hughes is just too many moving parts……Betsy, I remember Young Master Hughes when he was a 14 year old Pony Phenom, as well as in HS & I coached vs. his Connie Mack team for 2 years….One time I was the infiled coach on the Connie Mack team that he pitched for……He was something to behold….He has been dealing with expectations all his life when it came to baseball……Quiet and a very repectful kid…..
I like Washburn but I just recalled him being a lefty.
Can’t have 3 lefty’s. Can we?
Assuming Pettitte stays in the rotation. Pettitte in the pen?
That’s assuming Wang comes back and pick up where he left off 14 months ago. Yeah that’s likely.
Maybe Joba can channel his inner Cornhusker?
Ace draws enough experience from his 5 ML starts to put together a little run?
Kei gets serious about his “stepping stone” war cry?
Really, these are their options?
John Smoltz is a great name, but he is also a 42-year old man coming off major shoulder surgery. This ain’t the glory days of 5-10 years ago for him.
they need a vet SP,a 8th inning RP & a utility player not named Cody
Pat M,
Perhaps but, you lose a lot of innings that aren’t covered from their 3-5 starters right now.
I see both sides of it though.
By the way, if you haven’t noticed yet, certain members of the Red Sox bullpen are having troubles. Masterson has been getting smacked around. Ramirez too.
Wow, too bad KC gave up so many runs. The bullpen is giving the Royals a chance here.
“I will say, I’ve come around to CB’s and Patrick’s thinking about Hughes. They need to stretch him out and put him in the rotation.”
sj44-
if the yankees put hughes in the rotation, how do they avoid rushing him the way you agree joba was rushed which likely led to his sore shoulder later on last summer ?
“Cervelli would have made no difference today. Pitchers problems are on the pitchers and not on the catchers.”
Oh sorry. I should have been more specific. I wasn’t just talking today and I wasn’t just talking his catching.
I wouldn’t mind Bannister on this team.
A quick look around the league tonight provides great perspective: the red-hot Rays at home will go to the bottom of the 9th trailing the last place A’s by at least 5 runs; the “awesome” Sox, also playing at home against a poor team, has to call “all hands on deck” in the 6th inning in an attempt not to blow a 9-0 lead.
We are not alone.
Trish, unlike some folks who think the Yanks are trash and a bunch of chokers for losing two games to the Angels, I still have a lot of faith in this team. They showed a lot of fight in both games – you can fix the pitching woes, s, but you can’t instill heart. Also, I always get nervous even if they are facing the dregs of the league, so my nervousness before this series was nothing new, lol
Pat M. you are entirely right about Hughes and the pen. No question about it.
Hughes in the rotation really make this bullpen weak
God bless KC at least they are trying to make it a game.
as far as wang goes, i think the realistic thing for cashman to do with wang is forget about this year and pencil him in as the yankees fifth starter for next year, and over the winter cashman should hire neil allen to be a roving special pitching instructor who’s main job is bringing wang back to the form that allen originally taught.
he should pay whatever it takes to pry allen form the devil rays. it’s going to take a three year contract so allen doesn’t have to worry about leaving a secure job where he’s been coaching david price among others. allen lives in sarasota with his family so the a yankee complex is a close drive. he’d enjoy i’m sure being close to home much of the year.
this would also reverse some of the coaching drain that’s been taking place at the minor league level.
the alternative is to continue the downward spiral of wang with eiland coaching a pitcher he doesn’t understand.
Are you Neil Allen’s agent?
By the way, I don’t think Wang is part of the Yankees long-term future.
Yanks need another starter. Wang is done for 2009 the yankees cannot count on him. Hughes is doing a great job where he is right now. If you put Aceves back in the bullpen the bullpen will be very good. Postseason you will also have Joba in the pen.
If the yanks add a Brian Bannister or Erik Bedard. Then the rotation with a back end of Pettitte and Chamberlain will be fine.
This whole thing about Phil as a starter or 8th inning guy may well be determined by what kind of deal Cashman can make. If he gets a Bannister, then Phil stays in the pen; Huston Street, Phil gets stretched out.
Who the Yanks decide to go for, depending on the price, may be the determining factor as much as anything.
The rotation needs Yuse
The bullpen needs Yuse.
He is the man in demand
What happened to the almighty sox bullpen? They have actually coughed up some runs.
The A’s have a great pitching staff. If the offense goes cold after the ASB we could be in trouble.
The guy the Yankees need to get back is Gil Patterson as maybe their pitching coach.
“Trish, unlike some folks who think the Yanks are trash and a bunch of chokers for losing two games to the Angels, I still have a lot of faith in this team.”
Bets, as you can imagine I still have them taking the division AND winning the world series. Last night I fell asleep because I am down with a sore throat and a cough; today I spent the day with my neice and nephew (their yearly reward for a good school year – a day at Dave and
) so didn’t see today’s game either. All I really know about both is the final scores.
Buster’s
I have to tell you that it does amaze me that with Hunter, Vladdy and Rivera down we still can’t solve that team!
Why would KC trade Bannister? Even after this season, he’s three years away from free agency.
Lots of teams will be going for finishing touches like Bannister, Washburn, et al.
Won’t be cheap for the Yankees.
All in, Cash, All in!
Randy,
By sending him to Scranton for the rest of the month and having him start 5 games.
40-50 pitches
55-70 pitches
75-85 pitches
85-100 pitches
If they did that starting on July 14, his next 3 starts would come on July 19, July 24 and July 29.
That would enable him to return to the Bronx fully loaded for bear to pitch on August 5. You get him for the last 2 months of the season.
In other words, like a trade acquisition. If they get another arm to supplement the rest of the rotation? All the better.
It means Chamberlain may end up pitching himself out of the rotation. If that happens, he has to work to get his job back. That’s baseball.
The question of, “who pitches the 8th inning”? EVERYBODY. Do it by committee. All hands on deck.
Why not? This idea that everybody has to have these set roles is crazy to me. You do what you have to do to win the game on that particular night.
Do I think they will do it? Probably not.
However, it doesn’t do them any good if they can’t cover the innings they lose because Pettitte, Chamberlain and the TBA 5th starter can’t give them length most days.
At least with one more guy who can, you help yourself.
Just a thought.
Do I thini
a H Street would do wonders for this team
Hughes is not leaving the Yankees to go back to the minors.
Darrin, 9:20 PM – A quick look around the league tonight provides great perspective: the red-hot Rays at home will go to the bottom of the 9th trailing the last place A’s by at least 5 runs; the “awesome” Sox, also playing at home against a poor team, has to call “all hands on deck” in the 6th inning in an attempt not to blow a 9-0 lead.
We are not alone.
As John Sterling says, that’s baseball. You can’t figure it. That’s how I try to stay sane after two games like we’ve had. We beat up on Minnesota, which is similar in philosophy to the Angels, and the Sox, who are somewhat similar to our roster beat the Angels, yet we have trouble with the Angels.
Let’s hope CC gets us to the ASB on a good note.
I love the ASB – and SJ, you’re right – it’s coming at a good time for them…..and for me. I could use a few days of pure relaxation – every game for me is like war, lol. I have absolutely no doubt that a trade will be made. Unlike folks on another board (who really hate the Yankees FO), Cash and co. are not stupid. They know this is a very good team – they won’t let this opportunity pass. Think they want to let Mo, Jorge and Jeter’s final years pass by in oblivion (relatively speaking)? No – trades will be made; the Yankees have never been afraid of making moves.
Pat M, no wonder you have such faith in Young Master Phil – having seem him when he was Young Young Master Phil. It’s amazing that you had the chance to see a kid grow up from a gangly teenager playing the pony leagues to a mature young man who’s just grabbing the bull by the horns and dominating major league hitters. It’s not quite the same, but it’s why it’s so much fun rooting for home grown players. When they succeed, you take pride in how they developed – the journey makes it worthwhile. We got to see Jeter, Mo, Andy, Bernie and Posada make those journeys – how special. Imagine being a Jays fan and seeing Doc Halladay re-start his career and become this type of pitcher ? It’s a wonderful thing. It also amazes me how talent in kids is evident at such young ages…..14 year old Phil, aww.
However Cashman approaches the situation, SJ is right, the need some innings out of the starting rotation, and Joba is not getting it done, and Pettite is fragile….Personally. I think Andy is tired and he’s just not 100 %….He should have been overlooked on his turn about 3 weeks ago….The bullpen is a strength…Bruney needs to get back on track, but 5 inning starts are going to kill the pen…Just think back to April…….I love Brian Banister on the Yankees….
I’ve been singing H Street for two months now, he would solve the 8th inning guy & free Hughes up to join the rotation, now get a utility guy and it’s The Sox in the rear view mirror
Pat M, it would be better if we didn’t have to move Phil around – no question – but the problem is that we can’t wait much longer to see if Joba turns it around. It’s such a thorny situation because there are excellent points to be made on all sides……
The other teams situations are independent of what the Yankees issues are.
The Yankees can only worry about the Yankees. Their issues have to get fixed though because the division is so competitive, you don’t have a lot of slack to go into any more slumps.
This is a team that lost 9 of 13 recently and some of the teams they lost to (Nats, Marlins, etc) are the team you need to load up on in order to overcome games like the last two days.
The Yankees have a good team. They also have sprung some significant leaks the last couple of days that need patching. Particularly in the starting rotation.
Its going to be intrested to see some of the moves after the break. The trade deadline stuff is going to be more interesting than ever this year with so many teams in playoff contention.
The Rockies aren’t shopping Street now because they are in WC contention.
They are actually actively looking for bullpen help to support Street.
Trish, feel better!
Yep, every team has their nemesis and the Angels are it for the Yanks. I’m sure the Sox have their own……..
“Are you Neil Allen’s agent?”
the last time i was asked that was by the orioles when lenny who ran the twin lakes oriole complex in sarasota when i got neil in there to use the back mounds while rehabbing.
the answer was no then and is now, but thanks for the compliment.
as a side note, neil was throwing so well, the orioles asked to have first shot at him and when he was ready the gm came down to watch a simulated game that i caught against a rookie team at twin lakes( i wore flanagan’s uniform).
neil was going to get a $450,000( real money back then) contract if things went well that day and things were going great until the 7th inning when neil overthrew a low 90′s fastball to a hot dog who annoyed him.
neil’s elbow tendon or ligament snapped on the pitch and that was his last pro pitch he ever threw though dr, andews fixed it well enough for him to throw good bp now.
so yeah, we’re friends, but it would seriously be a very good idea for the yankees to reunite him with wang. what’s it going to cost, 120,000 a year?
giving wang every chance isn’t worth that?
The Sox actually have had problems in recent years with the Blue Jays, a team the Yankees have been able to handle well. That’s the closest I can think of when it comes to a Red Sox “nemesis”.
Thanks Bets! Nothing a CC win wouldn’t help!
GO KC! Just so happy to see them not roll over and die.
I think I will get changed up and settle in. It would be very nice if KC could
and as I am posting this, Guillen goes yard.
WAHOO!
SJ44 July 11th, 2009 at 9:34 pm
The Rockies aren’t shopping Street now because they are in WC contention.
They are actually actively looking for bullpen help to support Street.
——————————————————-
back in May when they dropped from the closer role he was on the market, all that has changed now. They(Keys) had this problem(8th inning) since the beginning of the year.
What makes people think Phil Hughes will be a great starter this year. Hughes is a young pitcher he wasn’t going deep into games either as a starter. Hughes is dominant as the 8th inning guy and the yankees finally fixed there bullpen, it would be foolish to move him out of the bullpen this year. I’m not saying Hughes wont be a great starter but if you put him in the rotation he will have the same growing pains Joba is having right now.
pat m-
i have never liked bruney.
i think he just has a very low baseball IQ and will disappoint more often than not.
KC isn’t going quietly. Have the game to 2.
repost because my first took 20+ minutes of moderation and got lost in the mix:
Does anyone know who russo is taking from wfan to join him now? Apparently he had a bit of a meltdown regarding his terrible ratings.
http://deadspin.com/5312470/ma.....ond-update (has the below video embedded)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x97sx1NLloM
the best part of his rant is him saying he’s going to pass on a vacation to find guys who know what happened in gone with the wind and the 62 giants (francessa much?).
He doesn’t have to be a great starter. After the Baltimore outing, he was pitching great in the rotation.
The urban legend is that he “found it” in the bullpen. That’s not true. He “found it” in the rotation and was put in the bullpen because he was throwing the ball so well, they wanted him to help the parent club rather than Scranton win games.
I will go out on a limb right now and say that if they put Hughes in the rotation from early August on, he would outpitch what Chamberlain and Pettitte would give them in the same timeframe.
He’s throwing better than both of them. Not only right now but, for the last 2 1/2 months.
9-7 Royals with the tying run at the plate.
For all those who said the Red Sox blow away these terrible teams, you’re wrong. Even if they win tonight the Royals have given them more fits then the Yankees ever did this season.
It was only yesterday afternoon that I was slammed for suggesting their might be circumstances in which Phil would be put back into the rotation. Two bad starts and all of a sudden people think it isn’t out of the question.
The fact is, we have, with this pitching staff minus Wang, who wasn’t pitching that great anyway, since ARod came back the best record in baseball.
Pitchers go hot and cold. Joba and Andy aren’t pitching well rioght now, but I think Joba will pitch well at some point in the second half, and I think Andy will pitch acceptably.
The Yanks have defects, but so do all other teams. Our offense is excellent, we have the best closer, and despite recent outings our bullpen has been solid for two months.
Oncee we make the playoffs, between CC and AJ we will be very tough.
Try to avoid fixating on the empty portion of the glass. It is way more than half full.
Tying runs on base for KC.
Randy,
Its funny. I have never understood the whole “Bruney is my 8th inning guy”. To me, he’s always been erratic when given more responsibility.
If you throw in the 7th inning, he’s useful. Later in games? Too erratic for my tastes.
I don’t think he has ever gotten the feel for pitching this year because of his elbow. Ive heard rumors, and Bill Madden wrote about this, that his elbow ligament is hanging by a thread.
He insists he’s healthy. However, I see a guy afraid of really getting on top of the slider (because the grip pressure and release point hurts his elbow) and afraid to let loose on the fastball.
I admire his courage. I question whether or not he can help them at all in the second half.
For all of our problems, I’ll still take our ‘pen, properly rested and with Ace, over Boston any day of the week.
Joba and Pettite will straighten out and Wang will come back. It’s funny how people panic and just start frantically shuffling the deck after 2 loses. There are no moves to be made. As long as Pettite and Joba are healthy i’m willing to wait out their slumps. Every pitcher has them. Why do people act as if the Yankee pitchers are the only ones not allowed to slump?
Bard in now. The Royals chased his fastball out of the zone the other night. Can’t do it now.
Smoltz gotta be thinking, “What do I have to do to get a stinking win?”
I thought Russo was faking it. The meltdown was real?
SJ44
July 11th, 2009 at 9:43 pm
He doesn’t have to be a great starter. After the Baltimore outing, he was pitching great in the rotation.
The urban legend is that he “found it” in the bullpen. That’s not true. He “found it” in the rotation and was put in the bullpen because he was throwing the ball so well, they wanted him to help the parent club rather than Scranton win games.
I will go out on a limb right now and say that if they put Hughes in the rotation from early August on, he would outpitch what Chamberlain and Pettitte would give them in the same timeframe.
He’s throwing better than both of them. Not only right now but, for the last 2 1/2 months.
———————————————-
After the baltimore start where he went 1.2 innings giving up 8 runs. He faced Minnesota, Baltimore again, Texas and Cleveland.
against Minnesota 5ip 3 earned runs
against Baltimore 5ip 3 earned runs
against Texas 8 ip 0 earned runs
against Cleveland 5ip 4 earned runs
Looks similar to what Joba has been doing.
You don’t fix problems, they linger. Its wonderful to “hope” Chamberlain and Pettitte pitch well in the second half.
However, given the way both have pitched for awhile now, its just hope. There is no guarantee either guy will get the job done. Would be great if it happens. However, its just as likely neither guy gets it going the second half.
Russo is just getting his comeuppance. Francessa can’t be too far behind. These guys are just prime examples of egos growing out of control.
This is not a slump for Andy or Joba – they’ve been pitching like this all season
Bard is a flamethrower – he’ll likely overpower the Royals. Hey, they’ve really tried – that’s all I can ask. It’s nice to see that, even in a game that they should have won easily (and, I suppose, still might), the Sox pen has imploded.
“S.A.–The sun will come out tomorrow; I’m down with the OPPC July 11th, 2009 at 9:48 pm
I thought Russo was faking it. The meltdown was real?”
It’s been confirmed the on-air firing was real.
Why did Mad Dog have a meltdown?
I mean, what happened with Mad Dog? Thanks!
Neil Allen & Gil Patterson both should be in the Yankee Organization at some capicity…..Gil was going to be the next great pitcher, man he was something……
S.A. by all accounts he really did fire people and clean house, I can see how it looks like typical dog getting hyped, but seems more than that “this” time. I’ve never liked dog much, just curious who he is now taking from wfan. Another funny aspect is that he chose the people he is canning; and the reasons, lack of knowledge? are things he lacks very much as well, he was/is the color man, never had the highest sports IQ at the end of the day, least imho
You guys are making a decent case to insert Hughes in the rotation.
I would have said the Yanks are crazy to try that scheme again.
It’s been confirmed the on-air firing was real.
=======================
Wow. Russo really has gone crazy
SA check the linked deadspin article or youtube for his words (not a sirius user so can’t say if it covers it all). the deadspin article has the video embedded.
Jeers,
I don’t think they will do it because they are fearful of the pen without him.
I just think its getting tougher and tougher to cover starter innings for 3 of the 5 slots in the rotation and they have to find people to do it.
James (one of the many) July 11th, 2009 at 9:53 pm
S.A. by all accounts he really did fire people and clean house, I can see how it looks like typical dog getting hyped, but seems more than that “this” time. I’ve never liked dog much, just curious who he is now taking from wfan. Another funny aspect is that he chose the people he is canning; and the reasons, lack of knowledge? are things he lacks very much as well, he was/is the color man, never had the highest sports IQ at the end of the day, least imho
===================
No idea who he might be taking from WFAN. Russo is definitely not the smartest tool in the tool shed
It’s funny how fans criticize players for their inability to perform under pressure yet at the first sign of trouble for their teams fans go crazy suggesting moves or giving up on players. If you’ve been a fan long enough you should realize that unless you are the 98 Yankees you are going to have your ups and downs as a team. Nothing comes easy. You have to persevere and learn how to deal with failure without losing confidence in order to succeed in this game. Why can’t fans grasp that? Why are fans so shortsighted and emotional when the situation doesn’t call for it?
James (one of the many) July 11th, 2009 at 9:57 pm
SA check the linked deadspin article or youtube for his words (not a sirius user so can’t say if it covers it all). the deadspin article has the video embedded.
==========================
I’m gonna check it out now
here’s my 2 cents:
moving hughes to the rotation is just as dumb as moving aceves there- there is no one in this organization (the majors or minors) that will do a better job coming out of the bullpen as these 2 – if the yankees only needed 1 starter then maybe it would be fine to mess with the success they’ve had in the bullpen – unfortuantely the yankees need at least 2 starters maybe 3(i don’t think wang will ever be himself this year)so killing one of the bullpen arms to fill a hole that is getting worse 3 out of 5 days is asking for trouble (look at what not having aceves these last 2 days has done)..
yes halladay doesn’t guarantee winning a WS – but what will montero guarantee? i know it sucks to have to give up on that potential …(by the way wasn’t tabata labeled as the next manny ramirez – how did that work out for his potential?)- but he ain’t winning the yankees anything by himself either – no one knows whats going to happen 3 to 5 years from now when he will be playing in the bigs – but having halladay in your rotation the next 5 years will give you a hell of alot better chance to win then montero will – do you think the redsox would have won a world series if they had hanley ramirez at short and no beckett and lowell? – i don’t think so
whatever trade the yankees make it’s imperative that david robertson be part of that trade – i’m sure the pirates wouldn’t mind adding one more average yankee pitcher to their roster – god he makes me long for the days of edwar ramirez and jose veras pitching..
when 3 out of your 7 bullpen arms can only be counted on in blowout games (tomko, robertson, bruney)you have real bullpen issues..
if the yankees make the playoffs guess where the road to the world series runs through – yup – anaheim and boston..would you like to revisit that joba, montero, mccalister and whomever else for halladday right about now?
“You don’t fix problems, they linger. Its wonderful to “hope” Chamberlain and Pettitte pitch well in the second half.
However, given the way both have pitched for awhile now, its just hope. There is no guarantee either guy will get the job done. Would be great if it happens. However, its just as likely neither guy gets it going the second half.”
There are no guarantees in baseball.
I have, however, watched baseball long enough not to panic when your staff hits a rough patch.
Maybe they won’t get better. I think it is more likely that they will, especially Joba, and I think it is likely that Pettitte will pitch well enough for a fourth or fifth starter.
Maybe they won’t. But we have enough offense to wait and see. Despite the “terrible pitching”, as some will have it, we are 13-4 since the NL road trip. WE HAVE THE BEST RECORD IN BASEBALL SINCE AROD CAME BACK.
We have time to wait and see.
I think there’s something to be said for looking at the Anaheim games as, well, Anaheim games and not representative of the team as a whole.
The Yankees don’t win in Anaheim. I don’t know why they don’t. I just know that they don’t.
Maybe people want to talk about improving the team in the second half of the year.
Perhaps some of us see holes that aren’t getting filled and believe they need to be filled in order for the team to be at its best.
After a half a season, you can see certain trends.
Such as, Joba has struggled for most of the season and is winless at home.
Andy has struggled at home and has been up and down all year. Both guys have just come off blow 4 run leads to a depleted Angels team.
There is no 5th starter right now. Wang has not been a factor all year. Isn’t even throwing yet, and its unclear whether he can come back and be effective.
Bruney and Robertson have been awful in the pen of late.
Those are issues and those issues can impact the second half of the year.
Its not panic. Its recognizing the team has some weaknesses that need to be addressed and discussing them.
joba = fail as a starter…put him in the pen or trade him
swisher also has no business being a everyday starter in RF
give chamberlain and cano and austin jackson for halladay and then trade something like betances + gardner or melky and anyone not name jesus montero for freddy sanchez (pirates)…
Worth it?
Love Joba and selling at a frustrated point for him and, a bit, cano, but I think I might do the above and think it’s very a realistic offer, thoughts?
Ivan Nova tonight:
Nova 8.0 4 1 1 2 4 0 1.42
Would it be ridiculously foolish to call him up post ASB over Mitre?
You don’t get any awards for having the best record in baseball for two months. Its a meaningless stat and it isn’t an indicator of ANY future success.
Quoting it doesn’t tell us anything.
We DID win two of three at the start of the year.
If we win tomorrow the season series is, believe it or not, tied.
SJ: Think Bruney’s pitching hurt?
The Jays have Aaron Hill. They don’t need a second baseman and that’s too much to give up for Doc.
Montero is a higher rated prospect than Tabata ever was. He’s the Yankees highest rated position prospect since Derek Jeter.
Every team has issues. IMO the Yankees strengths far outweigh their weaknesses.
I am not surprised by thiss little bad strecth (and it is little). They were playing too well for too long; it was bound to happen.
“We DID win two of three at the start of the year.
If we win tomorrow the season series is, believe it or not, tied.”
We can beat Anaheim at home. We’ve done that a few seasons now. We just can’t beat them on the road.
Not that this matters much but some are going to say that if the Joba – Hughes roles were reversed at the beginning of the season they may not be in this situation.
It’s all armchair quarterbacking but I’m not sure I could get the jury to side against them.
I’m reading a book about Joe Dimmaggio right now.
Reading it, I can’t help thinking of his and Montero’s similarities as “hyped prospects”.
Yes, Montero has the potential to be THAT good.
jesus montero could be pujols like…you dont give that kind of hitting talent up for anyone
He put together a staff that he thought was gonna be a bunch of little mad dog’s and instead they are a bunch of bow-wow’s? They are the Washington Nationals?
Instead of going on vacation, Russo is “going across America” to find talk show hosts who can talk about the cast Gone with the Wind, the 1962 Giants, Federer vs. Nadal and the 1941 All-Star game?
hahahahahahaha
this man is crazy
Listening to that audio clip, I picture him saying all that stuff with a dopey smile on his face
Rebecca,
I don’t know if he’s hurt. I think he’s worried about getting hurt. I think its in the back of his mind. It usually is with guys that have arm issues.
He just doesn’t seem right at all and his stuff isn’t major league quality right now.
Nova v. Mitre? I think Mitre will get the nod, if he pitches well in his next start, because he has major league experience.
At least that’s why I think they will choose him.
That Chris Russo meltdown is unbelievably cringe-worthy. It must be a nightmare to work for that guy judging how comfortably he threw his entire staff under the bus, on the air no less. I guess we now know what it feels like to go from being the #1 sports host in the biggest city in the world to completely irrelevant in the span of less than a year.
I guess I should be glad I was at the windy beach instead of watching this game.
And the team will address them, I’ve no doubt. The Yankees can’t live on hope……..With Andy, what we see is what we’re going to get. He’s not a young man – he’s at the very end of his career. He may be a servicable 5th starter…….but first we need to deal with #3 and #4 spots. Joba has shown absolutely no sign of progress….the team can’t afford to wait out his growing pains and I don’t think they will. I have no clue what they will do with him, but I certainly believe they will be active in the trade market. The Yankees are a very good team – they aren’t going to leave anything to chance
Rebecca-I’d be happy if we split the season series with Anaheim.
SJ44-
I’d love to improve the team. I’m all for improving the team. What Yankee fan isn’t for improving the team?
The question, of course, is how to improve the team, isn’t it?
You and I don’t agree on Halladay. I suggested yesterday that the Yanks might move Hughes back into the rotation – you told me there was no way that would happen, although you have admirably changed your mind on that, I see.
What other moves do you propose?
I agree Joe G, if anyone has thoughts on my proposed trade (10:08 post) id love to hear it
…Holy crap, Brackman’s line tonight:
Brackman 5.0 6 3 3 0 4 0 5.97
0 WALKS!!!
“Ivan Nova tonight:
Nova 8.0 4 1 1 2 4 0 1.42″
He should have been called up instead of wasting Aceves.
Anywho the thing w/ teams like LAA they make you pay for getting into hitters counts, you walk one, they steal 2nd, you walk another then flyout moves the runners, next thing you know a bloop 2 run single, a LD 2 Run double, a 3-1 HR pitch. The offense of the Yankees did thier job the pitching when it comes to 2nd or 3rd time through the lineup they pitch scared, almost like they are waiting or expecting a comeback instead of preventing it.
Ladies and gentleman, these last two days you have seen a brief presentation of the horror show that is, “The Yankees bullpen w/o Aceves”.
Don’t worry though, I believe this movie ends happily when Aceves returns.
Don’t compare Jesus Montero to Joe DiMaggio. That’s not even logical for a blog discussion.
Let’s not overhype prospects to levels that no one can reach.
Haven’t we learned that with Joba, Mark Melancon and some other guys that get overly hyped.
Montero is a wonderfully talented kid. I wouldn’t trade him for Doc and I don’t believe the Yankees would include him in such a deal.
Let’s just leave it at that and not get crazy with the hype.
SJ-You believe now that Hughes will go into the rotation?
i’m not a minor league guru but wasn’t lastings milledge and camerin maybin also highly rated prospects? milledge fell off the face of the earth once he reached the big leagues and maybin can’t crack a AAA outfield in florida…
highly rated prospects are nice but bonafide major league players are better – especially one that is top 3 at his position – as halladay is…
And that doesn’t just happen w/ the Angels it’s happening w/ the Red Sox too. That’s why they are 8-0 vs us.
was funny right SA, must not be any mirrors in that office
Looks like the medis is fixing to run Joba outahere on a rail.
I mentioned last year that the young stars on the Yanks should model themselves after Jeter as far as their approach to be a pro in NY and media-relations go…cause as soon as the inexperienced kids hit a rough patch…the wolves come out to feast.
Joba, just get serious about your profession, get in shape and pitch your butt off…be respectful to the media…go home and live your life.
The old GM rule was, You spend the first 1/3 of the season figuring out what you need…You spend the second 1/3 trying to obtain the players needed, and then you spend the last 1/3 hoping it all works out…..The Wang issue really hurt, complicated by the loss of Kennedy….Aceves was # 8 on the depth chart…..As Randy I has pointed out maybe that wasn’t as good as could have been….Point is, Cashman needs to pick up a starter…The need for a Street is no longer with Hughes out there…..Bruney suddenly has become suspect….Aceves, Coke, Hughes & Rivera is a lockdown pen….Marte is the limco factor……
Do you folks realize Phil Hughes will take at least 3 weeks to stretch out. During that period, you still don’t have a starter and the bullpen is much weaker.
Phil has started 7 games. He went past 5 innings twice. So all of a sudden he is going to pitch deep into games? If Hughes goes into the rotation, who is the late inning relief ace?
I think the yankees learned last year, that taking a relief pitcher and stretching him out to a starter during the season is a BAD idea. Look what happened with Joba, I highly doubt they will mess with his arm during the year.
Blah way too much panic around here. It’s only 2 losses. Every team loses series, even the Red Sox.
The Yankees pitching has hit a bit of a slump right now but it’s not the end of the world.
Relax Yankee fans, all is not lost. CC wins tomorrow and we go into the all-star break with a 4-2 road trip. Not too shabby eh?
No drastic moves are needed. Joba will come around. Pettitte has been hot and cold this year, hopefully he regains some consistency. The only move needed is a trade for a veteran reliever to shore up the middle relief.
As Joba says, “The sun will come up tomorrow”
SJ44-No, no. You misunderstand.
Dimmaggio was one of the best players of all time. What I meant to say is that the hype machine is similar and Montero is largely deserving of it.
I just worded it very badly. Sorry about that.
“i’m not a minor league guru but wasn’t lastings milledge and camerin maybin also highly rated prospects? milledge fell off the face of the earth once he reached the big leagues and maybin can’t crack a AAA outfield in florida…
highly rated prospects are nice but bonafide major league players are better – especially one that is top 3 at his position – as halladay is…”
Milledge had some serious makeup issues that Montero, as far as we know, does not.
Maybin was brought up too soon.
If we split the season series with the Angels as I said before I’d be perfectly happy.
These things I know for sure:
1) with a runner on 1st & less than 2 outs, Jeter will GIDP.
2) Yanks have 2 starters that can pitch past the 4th inning.
3) Robertson, Bruney, Tomko are not ML pitchers.
4) Joe Giraldi loves to over manage.
5) Johnny Damon breaks down more everyday & can’t throw.
6) Yanks need to get rid of alot of old blood.
7) gone next yr.: Molina, Damon, Matsui.
9) Petite needs to retire
10) Joba isn’t the phenom everyone thought he was.
These things I know for sure.
4 weeks to stretch out. He’d first go from 20-35 pitches, then 45 pitches, then 55 pitches, then 65 – 70 pitches, then 85 pitches…then he gets his regular start under him. Yeh this I do not want. We’re looking at late August before he really helps us from the rotation.
I’d say give Nova a shot.
Uncle Tito-I’m just going to write that whole list off as a bad joke and move on.
“You don’t get any awards for having the best record in baseball for two months. Its a meaningless stat and it isn’t an indicator of ANY future success.
Quoting it doesn’t tell us anything.”
Of course it does. It says that we have been the best team in baseball for one third of the season.
If we weren’t a good team, it might be a random result, although over a third of a season it is quite unlikely to be random.
However, we are a good team, so having the best record in baseball over a third of the season is extremely good evidence that we are one of the best teams in baseball. Especially since it coincided with the return of our best player.
Nova in spanish means “doesn’t work”..something the message in a name says it all (joking)
Wave Your Hat-You are exactly right.
There is way too much overreaction after a couple of losses in Anaheim IMO.
Hopefully we go in the ASB no more than 2 games back, and safely nestled in the wild card, and call it a nice first half.
“3) Robertson, Bruney, Tomko are not ML pitchers.”
Don’t put Robertson in that category, he’s young and today he pitched aggressive they just picked the wrong pitch location to a high ball hitter. After the 2 runs he settled down.
New thread.
“Nova in spanish means “doesn’t work”..something the message in a name says it all (joking)”
You seen his stats.
Wave,
Somehow, they have to stabilize the rotation. If they are committed to keeping Chamberlain in it, that becomes problematic because he is the most unreliable guy due to his inability to give them length and quality.
I say that because, in order to insert Hughes back in, he has to go to Scranton to stretch out.
IMO, you don’t stretch him out to be the #5 starter. You stretch him out to be the #3 starter, bump Andy down and take Chamberlain out of the rotation.
You try Mitre as the #5 guy and see how he does. Can’t hurt given what Chamberlain and Pettitte have given them lately.
They probably won’t move Hughes though, making it a moot point. A move I hope they don’t end up regretting if they miss the playoffs.
My belief is, winning takes precdent over development.
By that I mean, if the season is about “developing the young guys in NY”, then change the mission statement of the franchise.
Instead of the mission being “win the WS”, change it to “We want to develop our prospects”.
Then drop your ticket prices to reflect this change. Its only fair.
If you aren’t going to do that, the minor leagues are for “developing your prospects”. Not the Yankees 25 man roster.
I would look to do a deal for Doc IF Hughes or Montero aren’t in it. If you can’t, Brian Bannister is my #2 option.
They will also have to address the bullpen at some point because you don’t win WS with an all-kid bullpen.
Those guys though aren’t really on the market yet so, its tougher to figure out who to target.
Wait till they come to OUR house AGAIN -
Not only is it the right way to look at it, it also has the added benefit of not giving you heartburn over the ASB.
And, I think we win tomorrow!
the road to the world series runs through anaheim and boston… cc and aj won’t be enough – joba and pettite can’t be trusted…bring in halladay and you have a losing streak snapper 3 out of 5 days (cc, aj and doc)and your bullpen can take over the other times…
Pettitte is not a useful pitcher anymore. Umps aren’t giving him the corners and you can’t count on 1-2-3 innings anymore , let alone giving you 5 solid innings. Hurt-Maybe, but he won’t tell you because of his incentive clause.
Chamberlain is a mess. Putting him back in the bullpen doesn’t help, where he’s likely to drive the coaching staff nuts, being so erratic.
Hughes to the rotation would make him a #3, but besides Rivera, I don’t trust anyone else, including Coke, to stem the bleeding in the bullpen.
So far we haven’t beaten the teams we’re likely to face in the playoffs, if we make the playoffs. This Angel team is a shell offensively of what they were, which shows you how bad are pitching has become.
Used to be Spahn and Sain and pray for rain.
Now it’s CC and AJ and after that all’s not OK.
“Nova in spanish means “doesn’t work”..something the message in a name says it all (joking)”
You seen his stats.
at this point i’m ok with trying anyone over aceves or hughes (they are way to valuable in the pen)- but seeing his minor leagues stats won’t make me feel all fuzzy inside as i’ve seen ian kennedy’s, kei igawa’s, and just about every other starter’s minor league stats they’ve brought up who got hammered…
Every time Pettie pitches a bad outing he’s “not a useful pitcher”.
Then he goes out and pitches a good one and we all love Pettite.
Make up your mind! I believe he can still contribute.
Andy Pettite was washed up last year. trade him to the astros,sick of his act
“Make up your mind! I believe he can still contribute”
He can. But he’s going to throw some stinkers here and there. Some gems too. That’s Pettitte now. He’s Forest Gump’s box of chocolates. You don’t know what you;re getting.
Hey, but all-in-all our old guy won tonight…yours didn’t.
I’ve seen the Red Sox future tonight and his name is Daniel Bard…….not another home-grown guy about to make good!
That team is unbelievable with their farm: Ellsbury, Pedroia, Youk (2 homers tonight), Lester, Paplebon. Where does the list stop???? Did Nick Green come form their system also?
I wish Andy the best,and appreciate his help with the WS wins.He’s ruining his legacy with these horrible games.
Maybe he should step aside be honest with Joe/Cashman.If you can’t help the Yankees,don’t hurt them please!
Starting pitching *and* the bullpen caused the two Anaheim losses. The easiest and most productive fixes are:
1. Stretch out Phil Hughes to take Joba’s position into the starting rotation. He is pitching smart enough to start. Joba is not.
2. Move Joba into Hughes spot in the bull pen. Alternatively they could send him to AAA to get his head screwed on straight, with the help of a real pitching coach. That assumes they dont want to keep him in the pen which is understandable given Joba *IS* a capable starter (he already proved that last year), his problems are all mental.
3. Replace Dave Eiland. He is hurting Joba & Wang (who is progressing nicely with each start, but it took too long), Dave Eiland does not appear to be helping anyone else.
Anyway, those 3 changes will improve the starting rotation and the bullpen more than anything else they can do in the short-term.
SJ44
July 11th, 2009 at 8:49 pm
It depends on how you look at it.
They are 0-8 against Boston, 4-4 against Tampa, and 2-3 against Anaheim. That’s 6-15 against 3 teams they are fighting with for the division and/or the WC. That’s not good.
Right now 3/5th of the rotation is in shambles. Also not good.
Does it mean the season is “over”? Of course not.
However, you ain’t lookin’ hard if you haven’t seen the leaks that have sprung and not see easy solutions to the problems.
===================
The record vs. Boston is an anomaly, skewing the final mark.
The whole thing has been disabled by Wang. Were he himself, he would stabilize the rotation as the No. 3 starter (or 2b). That would give us contextual relief in terms of Pettitte and Joba, assuming spots more conducive to an aging veteran and a future, but green, stud-in-the-making.
Nothing to do about that. They can certainly stretch out Aceves and make him a starter. Melancon is very palatable in either short or long relief. He was throwing 3 innings at a time last year – admittedly, to get his pitch counts up – but his stuff lends itself well to long relief.
Basically, Aceves “becomes” Wang and Melancon becomes Aceves.
I see no reason why that cannot work.
SJ44
July 11th, 2009 at 9:43 pm
I will go out on a limb right now and say that if they put Hughes in the rotation from early August on, he would outpitch what Chamberlain and Pettitte would give them in the same timeframe.
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Agree 100% with that.
I also think that Aceves would have a sub-5.00 ERA if he started, which means he’d be at least as valuable as Pettitte.
I don’t get how we have a starting pitching crisis, while we have Hughes and Aceves (two starters who are pitching well) not starting.
““This is just a good team and they put a lot of pressure on you,””
So we kill Joba and tell him to pay attention to the veterans, then we get mr high and mighty pettitte with this comment, but lets just ignore it because hes andy
““This is just a good team and they put a lot of pressure on you,””
So we kill Joba and tell him to pay attention to the veterans, then we get mr high and mighty pettitte with this comment, but lets just ignore it because hes andy
Wang is on his way back to solid form (making progress in every start) so there is no reason to change the course with him right now.
Joba is NOT progressing so something has to be done. Aceves or Hughes could be “stretched out” to fill that role.
Keep in mind that if you take CC (and maybe AJ) out of the equation, we are only getting ~5 innings on average from the starters at as a group, so “stretched out” means we need to get at least 5 innings from whomever is picked to take Joba’s spot in the rotation.
It will take less than 3 weeks for either Hughes or Aceves to stretch out to that level, and my vote would be with Hughes.