Jays: No window to talk to Halladay
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- July
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Tony Mazz of the Globe reports that the Blue Jays will not let teams negotiate an extension with Roy Halladay before a trade is completed.
In other words, the Jays want your best prospects in return for only a guaranteed year and a half of Halladay.
Meanwhile, why would Halladay waive his no-trade rights without the incentive of a new deal? The short answer: He would not.
These things are all subject to negotiation, of course. But why would the Yankees, for instance, give up Phil Hughes, Jesus Montero and somebody else without knowing for sure they they’d have Halladay beyond 2010?
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on Monday, July 13th, 2009 at 6:33 pm by Peter Abraham.
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Chad Jennings
Sam Borden
Josh Thomson
I wouldn’t give up Hughes or Montero for any player who is not in his mid-20s, and certainly not for a 32 year old pitcher.
Uncle Ellsworth, when I called……Kim saw my name was Betsy and asked if I was the same Betsy who posts on Pete’s blog – she saw my name all over the place last night, lol.
Because Roy Halladay is the greaest pitcher on the planet!
plus…saying this will not help the jays..mater of fact it will hurt them…teams are not going to want to give them prime prospect if they aren’t getting a window to talk to Doc.
Trade Joba, Not Hughes.. Pete
I’d hate to see the young prospects with promising futures get traded. Halladay is great, but I like our young talent like Hughes, Montero, Peña, Cervelli, AJax, Joba.
The answer is, he would most likely only waive his NTC for a team he knows has the wherewithal to extend him at a price that is nice… and for a place where he knows he can win… hmmm, if there is a place where he knows he can win and he knows is willing and able to show him the love…
thanks Betsy
Pretty soon Pete will have a recurring spot on WFAN mark my words. This Blog is a Monster
GF, I know you were not ripping Phil -didn’t mean to imply you were. I assume the Yankees are getting another pitcher or two …..if they get two, I think Joba goes down. I agree with having patience, but I don’t think sending him down means they aren’t being patient with him – it means they want to win (and Joba is hurting that cause).
I agree with not putting him in the pen just yet – that would be rash, IMO.
Draft beer not people!
Peter, if you’d like, I could post the link to all of the numerous stories from two weeks ago that quoted Ricciardi saying there would be no negotiation window in a Halladay deal.
You are aware that you’re in the DAILY news business, as in TO-DAY?
so halladay says he would rather go to the national league than face jeter, a-rod, matsui and tex? sounds to me there is a simple solution. come to ny.
if cash can work this deal without giving up hughes, joba, or montero, give that man a raise.
I’m sure if he came to NY he would sign an extension. Come to NY Roy!!
That should be the Blue Jays stance right now.
As the deadline gets closer, you can always adjust your plan.
If you come out soft out of the gate, you get fleeced. If its say, 4 days before the deadline, and the offers aren’t great because teams aren’t giving up 2 A List and 2 other prospects for 18 months of Doc, it will be interesting to see what Toronto does.
If I’m Cash, I have my best offer already in mind. I put it to the Jays two days before the deadline. If they turn it down? So be it.
Last thing I would do is get in a bidding war for him.
Cash knows he has the goods to land him if JP doesn’t get what he wants from the Phillies or Cardinals.
Its just a question of whether or not JP has the onions to pull the trigger on a deal with the Yankees.
That part of it, the Yankees have no control over.
“But why would the Yankees, for instance, give up Phil Hughes, Jesus Montero and somebody else without knowing for sure they they’d have Halladay beyond 2010?”
Because you can’t trust CMW or Andy Pettitte w/a 10-run lead in a playoff game (sadly, not hyperbole).
If Washburn isin’t available, it really complicates things for Cashman. Then he has to go for a big fish like Halladay because the other guys available (like Brosnon Arroyo) are not better than what we have.
“Because his 5.45 ERA as a starter this yr is such a great indicator right? His last start before moving to the pen was 4 runs in 5 innings to a Indians team without their 3 best players. It’s called being a young pitcher.”
(from the last thread)
If you remove Phil’s Baltimore start, which looks like it was the abberation, his ERA is under 3. (not sure if this is his total ERA or just as-starter ERA, but it still counts).
As for Halladay, I would not be surprised to see him dealt in the offseason, if no one wants to deal for him in-season with no guarantee of being able to extend him.
We wouldn’t trade Hughes AND Montero in the package.
I’d imagine Montero is off-limits and well should be
It would be Hughes/Joba and Austin Jackaon.
Yanks are not going to get Halladay. The blue jays would want Hughes and Montero and no way Cashman will make that trade.
“If Washburn isin’t available, it really complicates things for Cashman. Then he has to go for a big fish like Halladay because the other guys available (like Brosnon Arroyo) are not better than what we have.”
See, this is where you’re wrong.
Cashman doesn’t HAVE to do anything. He could decide to stand pat and use Mitre for the rest of the season (he probably won’t, however).
But the only one that can ultimatley decide who Cashman wants to go after is Cashman.
Not only does Toronto want your best prospects for only a guaranteed one and a half years of Halladay, but they want you to take Vernon Wells and his $107M contract as well.
Um, yeah. There’s a better chance Megan Fox shows up on my doorstep in her favorite nightie than that scenario playing out.
Riccardi has two choices here:
- Get the big name prospects and keep Vernon Wells
- Dump Vernon Wells and forget about getting the big upside prospects
Riccardi isn’t going to get both. Nobody is going to trade their best prospects and take Wells and his contract, too.
I don’t think Halladay is going to get traded by the deadline at all.
We can outbid any team for Doc. As we saw with CC— money always talks.
A team like the Phillies or Dodgers might not be able to take that risk, but the Yankees and Red Sox can hand out blank checks.
I would be willing to trade Joba because I’m concerned about his velocity and his public statements after games that show a lack of maturity.
Don’t you think that if Halladay was traded to the Yankees, that the Yanks would give him the extension as soon as he signed? Why can’t it be negotiated after the trade? Plus, Roy and AJ are great friends. It’s a great move. Let Joba go to Canada.
Now that Aroldis Chapman, perhaps a few things may start moving on that front.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=4324481
Heyman said that Arizona isin’t getting good offer for Doug Davis and might decide to extend him rather than shop him.
Why would you trade a ML Ready prospect and two top minor league players for Halladay?
=============
Because the Yankees right now have two front line starters in their rotation and two guys at the back end that would for the basis of the back end of the rotation of a non-contending NL team. The Yankees do not have a legitimate 1-3 punch for them to make any kind of legitimate run in the playoffs this year and god forbid if Tampa Bay gets white hot in the second half with the rotation we have we still could be sitting home in October
Another way of looking at the contract situation right now with Doc Halladay is that The Yankees might want to sign him to a long term deal after his current contract is up and instead opt for draft picks instead. Then again they may want to keep Halladay in pinstripes for the rest of his career…this is all stuff to be looked into down the line. Right now The Yankees need to do what needs to be done to remain competitive in the AL East and in my opinion that means bringing this prized piece to the Bronx.
“Don’t you think that if Halladay was traded to the Yankees, that the Yanks would give him the extension as soon as he signed? Why can’t it be negotiated after the trade? Plus, Roy and AJ are great friends. It’s a great move. Let Joba go to Canada.”
The Yankees can’t negotiate before hand so they wouldn’t know if Halladay wanted to be extended. What happens if the Yankees trade for him and then at the end of the year Halladay decides he wants to leave NY? Yanks are left with nothing.
Roy and AJ being friends shouldn’t necessarily be discounted, but that alone might not mean Halladay wants to pack up and come to NY.
I bet that Cashman is going to stand pat at the deadline.
People expecting him to acquire one or two starters are probably going to be very disappointed come August 1st.
There are much much more buyers than they are sellers this deadline, especially for starters.
My Buddy may have 3
$75 (face) tickets for Oldtimers day sec 315 row7
Anyone interested?
Josh:
Say the Yanks trade for Halladay. They make it to the ALCS in 2009 and go no further.
Same in 2010.
At the same time, Joba puts it together and Montero is every bit the light-tower-power he projects, and Austin Jackson starts performing like Adam Jones, and Toronto has all of these guys cost controlled for another few years while the Yankees, if they want to keep Halladay, will have to pay him around $15 mil per.
Is that really worth it?
I don’t think so.
If the idea is to win this season, for whatever reason, and it is decided that Halladay gets you there – all the way there – they are going to have to give up one of Joba or Hughes, not both. I think I would want to keep Hughes, but, really, who knows? Then it’s one of Jackson or Montero (I know, Rebecca & SJ44, this is a no-no for you guys). You can’t give up both of your top position prospects, and you can’t give up both of your up-and-coming front line pitchers. And then any two second tier prospects.
But you have to be willing to deal with the fact that Hughes/Joba and even Montero/Jackson might come back to bite you. And you have to be willing to deal with the fact that nothing is guaranteed and you can give all that up and not even win the division, let alone the WS.
To me, it’s not individuals in any Halladay deal that are deal breakers, but combinations of players.
See, I don’t mind going with what they have, plus minor reinforcements, and compete for the pennant. I think this team, with reinforcements can make it into the playoffs. The playoffs themselves, anything can and usually does happen. I don’t know if you give up all that you have to give up and not really have a sure thing at the end of the day.
But, I’m a team player. If the Yankees get Halladay, I’ll be all-in.
Halladay is a laid back quiet guy. There is no guarantee that he would re-sign with us if he doesn’t like NY even if we offer the most money.
He might want to go to a contender on the West Coast or something.
Uncle: $75 ea or total?
Richie July 13th, 2009 at 6:52 pm
I would be willing to trade Joba because I’m concerned about his velocity and his public statements after games that show a lack of maturity.
———–
How many mature 23 yr olds do you know?
I don’t know very many myself and I sure as hell wasn’t very mature when I was 23.
I know I wasn’t the only one either.
The Jays are only hurting themselves by not letting teams negotiate with Halladay. Like you said, why would the yankees or any team give up top prospects for a guy who will become a free agent in 2010? JP Ricciardi is not a very smart GM.
Each Rebecca
sorry for the unclarity
I agree that the Contract extension is not really the issue. If he doesn’t resign with the Yankees those draft picks are like gold
Can Doug Davis come to the AL East and perform better than Pettitte/Joba?
“How many mature 23 yr olds do you know?
I don’t know very many myself and I sure as hell wasn’t very mature when I was 23.
I know I wasn’t the only one either.”
I’m 23. That should tell you all you need to know.
Uncle $75 ea is too much. Is he willing to negotiate?
Rebecca–Optimist Prime–Montero Fanaticus Primus
Josh:
Say the Yanks trade for Halladay. They make it to the ALCS in 2009 and go no further.
Same in 2010.
===============
Or Joba blows out his arm in the next year or so, has Tommy John and is the next Liriano…see we can do this for hours.
Its called the “what if” game…I can give you a list of reasons why I think Joba will not pay off as high as other Yankee fans think he will and you can give me reasons why Doc will not pan out for us as high I believe he will.
But I’ll save us both some time and just say we have a difference of opinion Rebecca.
“How many mature 23 yr olds do you know?
I don’t know very many myself and I sure as hell wasn’t very mature when I was 23.
I know I wasn’t the only one either.”
__________________________________________________
Not many & I’m 22 years young.
Reality is, Doc, not JP has all the power.
JP could make his best deal with a team Doc doesn’t want to play for, Doc invokes his no trade and no deal is done.
Nobody knows what Doc wants to do. However, in all this speculation, that, and not JP’s needs, is the most important.
That’s the power of the no trade clause and don’t for a minute think Doc doesn’t know that.
Its just speculation on my part but, I believe Doc knows his best chance to win AND get an extension is with the Yankees.
I say this because the Yankees look to improve their team every year. Its not one big move and then no moves for the next couple of years.
That’s why, obstacles and all, I don’t count the Yankees out in this. They still have a punchers chance, perhaps even better than that, to land him.
Uhh I have bad news for Toronto…. Halladay could easily agree to a contract extension w/ another team under the table and then they could just wait a while to announce it
Uncle $75 ea is too much. Is he willing to negotiate?
I’m not sure, I can ask him do you have an offer?
I will say My bro was going to buy them and there was no discount.
mike
July 13th, 2009 at 7:01 pm
I agree that the Contract extension is not really the issue. If he doesn’t resign with the Yankees those draft picks are like gold
————————————————————
The draft picks only amount to 2, and none above #16. Hardly worth a Roy Halladay or 3-4 of the cream of the Yankee crop.
I’m not saying I would do the deal…. BUT, if it were to happen, I’m sure JP & TOR would seek:
1- Joba or Hughes
2- Montero, Romine or Cervelli
3- Jackson, Cabrera or Gardner
4- A Miranda, Mccalister or B-type prospect
5- Take back Rios or Wells contract.
Basically, a proven young pitcher w/ MLB experience, a catching prospect, a young OF, another lesser prospect and take back a contract,
NOW, if Yanks could get Rios w/ Halladay…. Well, it gives you pause. We know what Halladay is…. Halladay-CC-AJ-Pettite would be a fearsome foursome come OCT.
What would Rios mean? Is he a steal? A young All-Star player who is having a down year? He has speed and pop and plays defense, right? What would he hit in Yankee stadium? Imagine his arm in RF? He knows AL East pitchers? Makes you think.
Plus, do we care about the service time and future of those prospects if we win the WS this year and next year? Do we care that Christiian Guzman is still hitting over .300 or are we content with the rings Chuck Knauby helped us win?
On Montero…. He has all the talent…. Sure, but Yanks could live w/out him. Where will he play? He’s most likely a 3rd catcher & full-time DH with NY. He aint playing 1B.
ALSO, Yanks can sign Aroldis Chapman. 21 yr-old LHP, who stands 6″4′ and throws 100 mph. He would basically be like a left-handed Joba…. he costs you nada.
Yanks have lots of younger prospects, and they could draft more. Replace Joba with Halladay and Jackson with Rios…. Go win the WS this year (and next)…. Would you give Montero away for that price? I think so!
Also, don;t forget… the window on Arod, Jeter, Mo, Posada…. it’s closing!
SO, if I were asked to trade Joba, Jackson, Montero & Miranda for Halladay & Rios. How do I say no? Halladay & Wells? Have to say yes.
Key is: do the new owners want to take on those contracts?
The yanks cant trade Chamberlain. Even if he fails as a starter he has showed that can be the future closer once Mariano retires. A couple of months ago Joba was an untouchable. People now want to trade Joba because he struggled his last couple of start. Thankfully Cashman is not that foolish to do that.
BTW i’m 20 and extremely immature, not embarrassed to admit it either
KO
July 13th, 2009 at 7:08 pm
BTW i’m 20 and extremely immature, not embarrassed to admit it either
stay gold Ponyboy
If I was GM and JP wanted me to take Vernon Wells, my best offer would be one of the two:
Phil Hughes, Kei Igawa, Kevin Whelan, and Austin Krum plus one other like Eric Duncan.
or
Joba Chamberlin, Kei Igawa, Melky Cabrera, and P.J. Pilittere
With out Wells coming… My best offer would be
One of Joba, Hughes, Dellin Betances
One of Kennedy, and K.Texeira
Three of Whelan, Cabrera, Nova, Krum, Pilittere, Igawa
dont like it? thank you come again.
The firm Chapman signed with is out of left field.
Its a small firm founded by a language professor from Boston.
It was financed by a banker from White Plains and their office is also in White Plains.
Far as I know, they are new on the scene.
Very interesting they got Chapman and not SFX or Jamie Torres, more experienced players in the Cuban marketplace.
My whole point with the maturity thing is that people often make way too much of it.
Does anyone here think Josh Beckett is mature?
How about Jonathon Papelbon?
AJ Burnett when he was 23 yrs old?
Carlos Zambrano?
I rest my case.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought I read somewhere that the Jays were looking for a Shortstop as well.
If Vernon Wells is a must include in the deal, there won’t be a deal with anybody.
Nobody is taking on that contract dollar for dollar. Its a non-starter for everybody.
It’s a waste of time talking trade packages for the Yankees. Roy is getting traded to the Dodgers or St. Louis.
“stay gold Ponyboy”
Ah, The Outsiders.
Good stuff.
Giuseppe Franco
July 13th, 2009 at 7:10 pm
My whole point with the maturity thing is that people often make way too much of it.
Does anyone here think Josh Beckett is mature?
How about Jonathon Papelbon?
AJ Burnett when he was 23 yrs old?
Carlos Zambrano?
I rest my case.
—————————————–
When Joba was pitching well no one was complaining that he was immature. Now that he is struggling people now are saying he is immature and want to trade him because they dont like his postgame interview answers.
“It’s a waste of time talking trade packages for the Yankees. Roy is getting traded to the Dodgers or St. Louis.”
I would think PHI makes the most sense. They have the prospects, the need, and the willingness to make something happen.
Joba is a mess. You can’t believe in him, just trade him because he will never be a josh beckett he doesn’t have the makeup and now he doesn’t have the stuff. He is an arrogant average pitcher. And if we include joba, romine, and austin jackson with a few other mid level prospects and include picking up alex rios and his contract then we can get this deal done. Romine can be replaced, austin jackson can be replaced, and joba can.
The Jays definitely can change their stance at any time and it probably does behoove Riccardi to come out with that now, even though other GMs may pay no attention to what he says.
This is the time now when you can’t believe anything that a GM says, just like you can’t believe NFL GMs the week before the draft or NBA GMs the week before their draft. You can’t believe anything that a MLB GM says shortly before the trade deadline.
He’s just doing anything that he can to stir the emotions of interested teams and hoping that one of them will make a knee-jerk reaction and give him the kind of return that he wants in a trade for Halladay.
I just wouldn’t have it in me to trade away Joba yet, I just couldn’t do it. There were too many great things from him as a starter last season. You always hope that he can get back to that. Thankfully, it isn’t my decision.
I was mature at 10. So what???
We are all different and choose different paths in life.
I can still do stupid things at my current age, things that even make me shake my head. It’s pointless to talk about whether a 23-year-old should be mature.
Some are, some aren’t, and some have there moments.
“I’m not sure, I can ask him do you have an offer?
I will say My bro was going to buy them and there was no discount.”
Hmm. Trying to remember what I paid for last year (seller cancelled on me, I was refunded), and I can’t.
Truth is, I’m really loathe to spend any more than $35-$45 for terrace level seats, so he may have to find someone else.
Jones July 13th, 2009 at 7:10 pm
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought I read somewhere that the Jays were looking for a Shortstop as well.
——————-
Then I’m sorry, Derek Jeter has to go. This is Roy Halladay we’re talking about.
So let me understand. The Yankees should sell their possible future for a possible chance at a last WS for the “old guard?” I don’t think Mo, Jete, etc., should be the argument for getting Halladay. You want to win the WS because you want to win the WS. Sentimentality has no place.
SJ44:
Good post…I think Sinatra’s song says it best when he sings “I want to wake up in the city that doesn’t sleep and find I’m king of the hill…” – I think that is true for a lot of people with talent in their given fields. Some people shy away from the bright lights and the big city but more people are enticed by having the opportunity to prove their mettle on the big stage.
It’s probably at least part of the reason A-Rod came back to The Yankees after opting out a few years back. Breaking the HR record in say a Giants uniform would be sweet but setting that record as a Yankee would place him alongside some of the greatest players in the history of the game. I think that is something a lot of these guys take into consideration when coming here. They want to make their mark in the sport on the grandest stage of them all, playing for the most legendary franchise of them all.
That is why I believe that 99.9% of the time when The Yankees pursue a player in addition to the crazy money they sign him to they eventually do land that player. In the case of Halladay he will also benefit from several of the advantages CC and Burnett had when signing with this team in the offseason. He would no longer have to be the face of a franchise and instead would be a member of a unit of veteran players some like Jeter and A-Rod whose stardom transcends the sport. He would also find himself among three other veteran pitchers (CC, Burnett, Pettitte) and would no longer be heading up a rotation of youngsters who rely upon him at times to save their bacon every start he makes.
I mean for those questioning whether or not Halladay would want to come to this team ask yourself this: If you had his type of talent and the ability to make the kind of impact he can make (wherever he choose to go) wouldn’t you want to be on a team with one of the best offenses in the game, a strong starting rotation, veteran players in both the lineup and the rotation as well as the greatest closer in the game locking down wins for you?
Here is one thing I don’t get. I’m not a “win now” extremest, but Isn’t the point of every season to win the title? Whose to say if they kept Joba they would win 2 or 3 titles in the next decade. Point is, Halladay, CC, AJ, Andy, #5 (Hughes? Miltre? Wang?) is a formidable rotation, and those top 3 in the playoffs gives them an excellent chance at winning in 09 and ‘10. This isn’t a guy with diminishing stuff by any calculation (saber metric or traditional), and is a proven winner in the toughest division in baseball.
Also- Austin Jackson does not project to be Adam Jones and his strikeout rates are alarmingly high for AAA.
But that is also assuming that Doc likes NYC and the atmosphere here and wants to deal with the pressure, media etc.
I don’t think he even knows how he will react to that yet. So who knows if he wants an extension right now? He might want to play it out and see what happens.
What the standings are on or about 7/31 will have some influence toward Cashman’s thinking. The Yankees play Detroit, Baltimore, and Oakland at home and The Rays and White Sox on the road to close out the month.
If Joba has 2-3 quality outings during that span and Mitre shows something in Wang’s absence then Cashman suspends Halladay talks with Ricciardi and settles for an upgrade over Ransom for a utility IF.
There’s always the chance that A-Rod’s hip acts up and the team is back to square one like in April. Too chancy having Ransom at 3rd base regularly again.
“Correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought I read somewhere that the Jays were looking for a Shortstop as well.”
I have heard that as well. That could make the Brewers favorites if they were willing to part with Escobar, but they’re not.
“The firm Chapman signed with is out of left field.
Its a small firm founded by a language professor from Boston.
It was financed by a banker from White Plains and their office is also in White Plains.
Far as I know, they are new on the scene.
Very interesting they got Chapman and not SFX or Jamie Torres, more experienced players in the Cuban marketplace.”
Interesting…maybe it’s something like small firm = more time to devote to one player?
When coming up with trade proposals people, please remember, it’s quality not quantity.
Halladay would take one of Joba/Hughes, likely Austin Jackson, Jesus Montero and Mark Melancon. And that would be to start.
Heck, I’m 29 and I am immature.
Joba chamberlain’s are a dime a dozen. Majority of pitching prospects don’t pan out. Only a few do. And if you look at Joba’s diminished velocity and stuff he is damaged goods, so trade him while he still has some value in a package for the best pitcher in the game. Joba is no Mo or Josh Beckett just an average, arrogant, joke of a pitcher.
I doubt Halladay would tie Riccardi’s hands like that by demanding he only get traded to a certain team.
I’m sure he would go to any contender (legit contender like LAD, BOS, PHI, NYY, LAA… not borderline teams like the White Sox for example).
“Also- Austin Jackson does not project to be Adam Jones and his strikeout rates are alarmingly high for AAA.”
I was using Adam Jones as a what-if worst-case-scenario.
Jackson’s K rate is not ideal, but it is getting much, much better.
Truth is, I’m really loathe to spend any more than $35-$45 for terrace level seats, so he may have to find someone else.
I agree.
I’ll let you know if he has a fire sale.
Rebecca, I don’t think you can give Joba all the time he needs to develop into good starting pitcher. Sending him down to AAA would not be the worst thing for him – the Yankees are trying to get into the playoffs. The team comes before Joba – if he doesn’t show enough to stay in the rotation, he has to be sent down. He’s no different than any youngster – and again, sending him down doesn’t mean the Yankees would have less of a committment to developing him. Phil was going to spend most of this season in AAA – does that mean the Yankees didn’t have patience with him?
J July 13th, 2009 at 7:19 pm
Joba chamberlain’s are a dime a dozen. Majority of pitching prospects don’t pan out. Only a few do. And if you look at Joba’s diminished velocity and stuff he is damaged goods, so trade him while he still has some value in a package for the best pitcher in the game. Joba is no Mo or Josh Beckett just an average, arrogant, joke of a pitcher.
———–
That’s a joke of a post. Good grief.
Betsy,
They don’t have anyone to replace Joba in the rotation anyways. So he’s not moving from there while the Yanks are already scrambling for starting pitchers as it is.
I don’t want to know who is next in line in Scranton if Sergio Mitre is currently their best option.
Like Johan Santana, Roy Halladay holds the trump card with his no trade clause. If he doesn’t like the team he’s proposed for, he can withdraw and Toronto has to wait to try again over the offseason.
If joba fails his next start against Detroit and shows no progress in terms of velocity, movement, control, and going deep into the game then he needs to be on the trading block for Halladay.
And DFA Tomko, and that joke ransom, and fire Dave Eiland (one of the worst pitching coaches ever). Bring back Mel as the pitching coach.
GF, I’m assuming the Yankees get a pitcher or two. This team can not win anything (no team can) with 2 reliable SP.
Betsy – Who are they replacing Joba with? What if Cashman can’t find anyone on the trade market without overpaying?
I’m very worried about Joba’s regression, and I’m wondering if he’s in appropriate shape to be honest. The knock on him in HS/College was he went from 90-96 depending on his physical fitness. It may be subjective, but he does not look as trim/fit as he did in 07 and 08, and his mechanics are much sloppier than they were in 07 when he was might tighter in his leg lift and drive.
regardless of what the yankees do or don’t do with halladay they’ll still need a real outfielder for next year – they would be crazy to re-sign damon (sorry erica) unless he’s going to accept a one year 5 million dollar deal like abreu did this year..and even then he won’t and should not be playing the OF anymore – having said that what is the difference between holliday, jason bay and alex rios – probably nothing…so why not get your rightfielder in rios this year along with halladay – thats 2 problem areas you’ll be fixing in one trade..
you say rios isn’t worth his ridiculous contract – would you rather pay 13 – 15 million for 5 years to holiday or jason bay? because thats probably what it will cost – only they don’t have halladay gift wrapped with them..
if you think the yankee OF will be set with melky, gardner, swisher and ajax you are looking at a 3rd place finish for next year as well…
The teams that are most interested and have the goods to get Doc are very likely teams he’d approve – Yankees, Phillies, Angels……I don’t think this is a Jake Peay situation where he wanted to go to a very limited # of teams. I think Doc just wants to win.
Am I missing something here? Since when do teams let the other side negotiate before having a deal in place? Of course Ricciardi would say that. The team makes a deal, then in order for Doc to approve it, he will negotiate an extension. The same way every other player with a no trade clause has done. Pete, you just move in?
I have a question. If you travel to a city and their baseball team is not in town, but you do a tour of the stadium, does it count as a stadium visit???? We saw the old Busch Stadium a while ago, but they were out of town, so we did a tour instead. And in September we are going to SD for a wedding, but the Padres are not in town, but we might have time to visit the stadium (if they do tours). Does it count???
Vtred, Cashman has to find someone. I don’t know who, but he has to.
Phil Hughes has greater potential then joba chamberlain, if you can trade one away and still develop a top starter for your rotation then the yankees should go ahead.
J July 13th, 2009 at 7:27 pm
If joba fails his next start against Detroit and shows no progress in terms of velocity, movement, control, and going deep into the game then he needs to be on the trading block for Halladay.
And DFA Tomko, and that joke ransom, and fire Dave Eiland (one of the worst pitching coaches ever). Bring back Mel as the pitching coach.
———
I didn’t think it was possible for you to top your last joke of a post. Unreal.
Joba velocity is going to be lower as a starter. He is not going to consistenly hit 97-100 as a starter. If you want Joba to throw 98 then you have to put him in the bullpen.
J July 13th, 2009 at 7:30 pm
Phil Hughes has greater potential then joba chamberlain, if you can trade one away and still develop a top starter for your rotation then the yankees should go ahead.
———-
Yes, I’m sure you had that opinion last year when Hughes didn’t win a single game all season.
It doesn’t take much for the crazies to turn on you.
I hate to say it, but acquiring Halladay is a big deal. That would solify a playoff spot alone, not to mention an even greater chance of a World Series. Can you imagine? Sabathia, Halladay, Burnett..
Obviously it’s not happening, but Halladay is one of few pitchers that 9 out of 10 times if you give him 3 runs, he wins, and goes 7 or 8 innings.
Uncle: “I agree.
I’ll let you know if he has a fire sale.”
Awesome. my email is rebecca@puristbleedspinstripes.com, may be easier to contact me there.
Betsy: “Rebecca, I don’t think you can give Joba all the time he needs to develop into good starting pitcher. ”
I’m not saying you need to keep him at this level to develop him…if it takes AAA it takes AAA, but he’d still be a Yankee and not a Blue Jay.
Doreen, I’m going to Philly next week and taking a tour of Citizen’s Bank Park. The Phillies are in town, but I’m not seeing a game. I say – count it. MLB network had a show called Cathedrals of the Game and they did a show on Petco Park – it looks beautiful.
Asking Cashman to get a better starter than Andy/Joba (remember, don’t look at NL West numbers and think they will translate here) is much much easier said than done.
Half these guys that are being speculated about here (Bannister, Haren, Zach Duke, even Washburn perhaps) are probably not even on the trade block.
Anybody who thinks Joba’s velocity now has ANYTHING to do with his being a starter rather than in the bullpen has not been paying attention.
This guy hit 96-97 deep into the game in Detroit… And it’s not even about radar gun readings… You don’t need a gun to see the difference in the way hitters react to the fastball.
If Joba threw even a single fastball by any hitter in his last start, I didn’t see it.
Rebecca, as you know I’m very hesitant to trade either Joba or Hughes……esp. Phil. If it came down to that trade bandied about earlier – Joba, Romine, Jackson – would I do it? I admit I’d be very tempted….
The NY Post said we play the Dodgers at home next year
But Torre was quoted recently as saying the Yankees come to LA next year.
How does this “no window” post qualify as NEWS?
That story is at least two weeks old… You would think a guy being paid to cover this team would know that.
Betsy,
Petco Park is beautiful, but I sat in the upper deck there and felt like I was 10 miles away. They did, however, have a great pre-game picnic deal outside the park that my group did, and that was a lot of fun.
@ 77513-thats not true. He sat 94/95 and could still dial it up to 98 when he needed last year as a starter. Whereas he sat 96/97 and could dial it up to 99 as a reliever. The traditional drop off in velocity may be 2 or 3 mph, not 6 or 7. Joba throwing 89/90 mph fastballs has to be a cause of concern because of his history of fluctuating velocities based on his health.
What about Eduardo Nunez in a deal?
When does the Knicks season start?
At this point, I believe they would trade Joba over Hughes.
Joba may have a higher upside, but Hughes is healthier (no upper body injuries), more coachable, more mature and has quiet a high upside himself and impeccable control.
At some point, you need to stop looking at upside and look at whats n front of you. Hughes is a safer bet to be a good ML pitcher than Joba is.
Hey, it’s a long shot but–
My old TA is looking to sell two tickets to Paul McCartney at Citifield on 7/17. Section 106, he’s willing to sell them at $150 each and he’s desperate.
IF you’re interested email me @ rebecca@puristbleedspinstripes.com or IM me @ fireroseboudicca
Sab is right. If you go for halladay and rios that is killing two birds with one stone. If Crashman doesn’t make a deal then the yankees are either going to finish third in the division or lose in the first round of the playoffs. And if you continue to count on just the prospects for next year with an outfield of melky, gardner, and ajax the yankees will fail again. Then we will all be watching the dodgers and red sox in the world series this year and maybe next year.
JD July 13th, 2009 at 7:39 pm
What about Eduardo Nunez in a deal?
I like Nunez
Thanks, Betsy. I’m going to look into it.
In the meantime – it would be great if we could get to a game in Philly. Maybe in August when my husband gets a week off. We’re not going anywhere this summer, so that could be a great idea.
We did got to a game at the old stadium years ago, but I’d love to see the new one, too.
HELP!
My work recently blocked Peter’s blogs so we cant get to it! Does anyone have anyway to get around this? There are 5-10 of us that religously read the blog for our yankee news… we even stopped reading the papers and just were getting our news from pete’s blog….. we are miserable, please someone help us!!!
How about Joba, Pena, Melky, Romine, and Ajax for Holliday and Wells. Toronto picks up his bonuses significantly reducing amount owed. Much like ARod from Texas. I’m trying to stay away from Nontero but he might be the deal breaker
Nontero = Montero. Obviously
Until someone picks in the media picks up that we have serious interest in Doc and are “all in” on him, then I’m not even going to get my hopes up.
I find it hard to believe that Cashman would trade Joba or Hughes. And when push comes to shove, I don’t know if Riccardi has it in him to trade him to the Yankees unless our package is moderately better than that of an NL team.
I like Nunez.
_________________
I only said that because someone else said the Jays may be interested in a SS.
I would love to see the Jays request for Halladay. The Yankee prospects are notoriously overrated. If it were something like Jackson, Romine, and a couple others. I’d make that trade in a second.
How often can you deal for an Ace dominates?
http://www.bostonherald.com/sp.....ion=recent
i think the whole halliday thing is a big distraction. his next five years likely won’t touch his last five.
i think the yankees should totally stay out of it.
if the red sox get him which i don’t see happening then the yankees have a target they’ll need to match. but that’s a big if.
i’m more concerned with getting the players they have to play like the back of their baseball cards.
“How about Joba, Pena, Melky, Romine, and Ajax for Holliday and Wells. Toronto picks up his bonuses significantly reducing amount owed. Much like ARod from Texas. I’m trying to stay away from Nontero but he might be the deal breaker”
__________________________________________
I like Peña & AJax.
DB: If you’re going to throw out trade proposals, you should at least get Halladay’s name right
But anyway, if a team is going to be forced to take on Wells, that would severely lessen the price of Halladay.
I’m not sure some of you guys actually know how bad the Wells contract really is…
If Cashman doesn’t get a pitcher then the yankees aren’t going to the postseason or they aren’t making it out of the first round. You can’t count on Andy or Joba.
I really wonder if Cashman feels the same way about the rotation as the fans do.
i would give them joba and hughes for halladay in a second… especially if the yanks plan on keeping joba(a reliever) in the starting rotation.
Just getting to the blog now- hillarious calls for Hinske-
How about- It’s a perfect 10 for Eric, he pulls a Bo Derek!
Ridiculous but so is John-
I would deal 3/4 prospects who are not Joba/Hughes/Montero for Roy for sure- 1 of those 3 I have to think long and hard about-
Why would thy not allow a negotiating window? Seems like blowing smoke to me-
The Yanks are going to the post season. The problem is they are going to have to play at Anaheim to get out of the American League. I’ve never seen a team play so tough against a team day in and day out as the Angels do against the Yanks.
keith
We have to keep Hughes.
We know that Halladay is open to playing here
The question is…. Is Cashman open to bringing him here and willing to pay the price?
Halladay is one of the best pitchers in baseball, Hughes will be a nice #2 or #3 starter his whole career. I would deal him now for this rotation:
Halladay
Sabathia
Burnett
Pettitte
Wang/Tomko/Whoever
That’s a rotation that beats the Angels and the Red Sox in a best of five without home field.
If you can get him without surrendering Montero and only one of Hughes/Joba… how can you not do it?
“If you can get him without surrendering Montero and only one of Hughes/Joba… how can you not do it?”
Because the Yankees don’t see the prospects the same way we do, and because they probably know more about Halladay than we do, too.
How many times have you heard of a guy like Montero? Hyped up yankee minor league guys… deal Montero and Hughes or Joba for Halladay… Halladay is a proven ACE in the American League that can shut down anyone at anytime… He is more valuable then Montero or Hughes or Joba(unless he’s a reliever) will ever be. Didnt we learn anything from the Santana situation?
Cashman doesn’t need to make the postseason to keep his job… Girardi does.
Cashman and Hal are tight. If Cashman needed to make the playoffs, he would do whatever it takes. Considering he doesn’t need to, he doesn’t have to be as desperate and proactive. He can gamble on Andy/Joba/Wang contributing in the 2nd half rather than overpaying for a pitcher and giving up young talent.
Doreen, the new stadium is beautiful……..hope you get a chance to see it. The only other parks I’ve been too are Shea and Fenway……..
How much longer are the Yanks going to go with Joba not giving them length and giving up 4+ runs per start? And burning out the pen.
Joba and Hughes? That’s crazy and the Yankees would hang up the phone before JP had finished speaking……
What else is Doc going to say, that he doesn’t want to play in NY? I do believe the Yanks are on his list, but it’s not like I think he’s got an overwhelming desire to play here. There are other teams out there that will give him his chance to win…the Phillies, the Angels, to name two.
I’ve got a FEVER…and the only prescription is ROY HALLADAY!
Of course, we have no idea what JP thinks about the teams’ prospects. Just because scouts like certain players doesn’t mean JP has to…….
Rose, i think they want to get him innings, once he gets to a certain number they will probably put him in the bullpen. I know that was the plan at some point. I think Hughes is a better starter then joba and joba a better reliever then hughes. but i just watch 162 games a year, what do i know.
“How many times have you heard of a guy like Montero? Hyped up yankee minor league guys”
Montero is the THIRD RANKED PROSPECT in all of baseball.
Third.
Out of what, hundreds? Thousands?
That’s….that’s not just hype.
There’s something there.
If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.
Doubtful we can get Doc for Halladay, Jackson, and Romine. As SJ always says… not every team values prospects the same way. Maybe Toronto doesn’t see Joba as a starter. Maybe they don’t see Jackson as anything special.
And I’m skeptical if Cashman would even trade Joba.
Randy I, ( The Original Tin Cup )…Yeah, you very well maybe right, but he’d look good in Pinstripes every 5th day for about 3-4 years…….Doreen, if you’re staying in San Diego, take the trolley, it stops right there in the GasLamp District….Literally steps away from Petco….No driving, I repeat no driving…..
Halladay is going to want CC money. And don’t think for a second he’s going to want to wait it out – he has extreme leverage at the age of 32…..baseball is way too unpredictable to just wait things out. Halladay has had his share of weird injuries through the years, afterall. One injury in 2010 can destroy his shot at his last huge windfall.
So he has a chance to get that windfall NOW instead of risking it and waiting for later. He’d be an absolute idiot to take the risk.
Should the Yankees do it? I am of the opinion that it wouldn’t crush me either way – afterall, it IS Roy Halladay we are talking about. But the investment is going to be substantial, and you are going to be paying the guy a lot of money when he is 36-38 years old in all likelihood.
Give them Hughes and Montero and we get
Halladay
Sabathia
Burnett
Halladay
in a 5 game series with Joba in the 7th and 8th and Mo in the 9th….. beat that
Cool – David Cook opening for the HR Derby. I like him.
22, immature, and proud of it.
Joba, Hughes, Montero = UNTOUCHABLES
randy l.
July 13th, 2009 at 7:44 pm
i think the whole halliday thing is a big distraction. his next five years likely won’t touch his last five.
i think the yankees should totally stay out of it.
if the red sox get him which i don’t see happening then the yankees have a target they’ll need to match. but that’s a big if.
i’m more concerned with getting the players they have to play like the back of their baseball cards.
—————————————————-
I totally agree with you. Yes, randy that’s what I said. I agree.
I think you can look at what Cashman did with Santana and equate that to Halladay.
He has placed a value on the prospects and seems to want to stay the course.
Also as far as getting Halladay he would be paying a premium price for a pitcher that has already pitched his best years for someone else.
It looks like it would be a move that seems counter to what he has set as goals for this team.
I wouldn’t be suprised to see him get a pitcher, just not Halladay.
How many guitar players are in this band?
How amazing must it be…to be on that field, just listening and taking the entire experience in… *wistful sigh*
If Halladay becomes a yankee, he doesn’t really change much except for chances of making the playoffs.
He and AJ Burnett have ZERO post season innings pitches. Burnett was an 03 marlin but on the DL b/c of Tommy John.
CC is awful in the post season. Andy and Joba are wild cards.
IMO, its the way the yankees play is what kills them. They don’t hit and run, they don’t sacrifice, don’t bunt, they don’t go first to third, and worst of all, are AWFUL with RISP. THey wait for things to happen. They rely too much on the HR.
You can blame only so much on pitching.
The fact that even PETER GAMMONS is admitting that Montero can be a great, great hitter speaks volumes and tells you all that you need to know about Montero.
Hitting prospects come and go, but the talk of Montero’s potential substantially exceeds that of other hitting prospects of the Yankees in the past several years. Dealing Montero is a no-fly zone.
Montero is the 3rd best “PROSPECT” in the minors? Any Halladay is the 1st or 2nd best pitcher in all of major league baseball…. i would send Montero in a second for Halladay and give them Hughes or Joba.
Wait! There must be a scenario where the Yankees have to face neither the Angels nor the Red Sox. Anyone?
“If anyone deserves to host the ASG you guys do”??? What the heck does that mean? No one else deserves to host the ASG?
Im sure the Yanks and the Mets will get an All Star Game soon to show off the new stadiums…
Halladay would look great in pinstripes
Why does everyone on this blog waist some much time talking about Halladay? The Yanks aren’t going to land him can we please move on. This isn’t going to be another last minute Yankee move that shocks the league. Cash isn’t going to ride in on a white horse and steals Roy.
“Montero is the 3rd best “PROSPECT” in the minors? Any Halladay is the 1st or 2nd best pitcher in all of major league baseball…. i would send Montero in a second for Halladay and give them Hughes or Joba.”
Disagree. Montero is a special talent.
Joba is a much better pitcher than Hughes. Joba has been the better starter out of the two it is not even close. Joba has the higher ceiling he will be a future ace while Hughes is a number 3 or 4 starter. To keep Hughes over Joba would be silly.
Isn’t Albert Pujols playing with an elbow that needs TJ surgury?
I may point out that Halladay is as old as AJ Burnett…
And Halladay’s stats are still peaking.
-K/9ip increacing every year since 2006
-BB/9ip’s going down 3 straight years
-An ERA+ in the 150’s the past two years.
This is a man who is still learning and refining his craft
Simply put, this is a championship caliber pitcher who puts the Yankees on even (if not better) footing with every other team in baseball. He can pitch in Fenway and has a strong history of beating Boston in Boston.
If it takes Joba+ Montero and assorted high level prospects (Jackson etc…) I don’t see how Cashman does not make the deal. The team could win 2 titles with Halladay the next two years, without him, sure they’re in the running, but as built probably can’t get over the top.
oh, nevermind. He had TJ done over the winter
Phil is a potential #3 or #4 starter? Ok………..
Rebecca, so your expecting Montero to have a career like who? Posada? Do you know what the chances of that are? Halladay is a proven commodity…. and he is the hardest type to find, a shutdown front of the rotation/ace in the American League.
Pat M -
We’re going to a wedding in El Cajon and my brother lives in Santee. We’re staying mid-way between the airport and those two cities. We thought about staying in the Gaslamp District, but since we need to be elsewhere Friday and Saturday night, figured we wouldn’t be taking full advantage of it. We need to rent a car anyway.
(We got a hotel package with daily parking included.)
i see cashman getting a washburn type of pitcher & waiting for wang.
maybe lee.
i also am not sure how much toronto want’s to trade halladay because they said no team will get a window to talk extending him.
how can they stop teams from insisting on an extention when they talk to him?
i guess teams can talk to toronto but not halladay directly so there is no way that teams can ask halladay if he want’s to be extended.
i have mixed feelings now about getting him.
it will cost a lot & it usually never works.
are we willing to give up hughes,ajax,montero?
why not get washburn & a bullpen arm,hope wang comes back soon?
cc
burnett
washburn
pettitte
joba
wang
i agree with what Eric said!! Get Cash on the phone… sign this guy, send them montero and hughes and some other AAA guys
“Rebecca, so your expecting Montero to have a career like who? Posada? Do you know what the chances of that are? ”
As a hitter, Montero’s ceiling is higher than Posada’s. Where he ends up? Hard to say, but even if he’s only half as good as Posada he’s still worth keeping.
THAT’S how good he is.
I don’t like this “call your shot” thing. Rubs me the wrong way.
Rebecca, do you have a crystal ball? If you do can you also tell me if Pujols took HGH or some type of anabolic roid?
If Cashman fails to deliver on a good package for Halladay and the yankees fail again this year then Girardi(the coaching staff) and Cashman need to be fired.
Typically, players don’t go to AA at the age of 19 and play as if they are a minor-league veteran. That is what Montero has done. His POTENTIAL as a hitter right at this moment is through the roof. And yes, right now it is all potential – who the heck knows what will become of him. But trading him would be a substantial risk. Trading him along with OTHERS to get a 32-year old pitcher (even a great 32-year old pitcher) is an enormous risk – especially since that 32-year old is going to want extra years at big money added to his contract.
Rebecca–Optimist Prime–Montero Fanaticus Primus
July 13th, 2009 at 8:12 pm
“Rebecca, so your expecting Montero to have a career like who? Posada? Do you know what the chances of that are? ”
As a hitter, Montero’s ceiling is higher than Posada’s. Where he ends up? Hard to say, but even if he’s only half as good as Posada he’s still worth keeping.
THAT’S how good he is.
—————————————————–
When the Yankees started keeping players like that is when they got back to being the Yankees again.
The more I think about trading for Halladay, the more I like it.. If you can keep Montero out of it then you could send Joba, AJAX and Melky and Romine and maybe get Rios back.. Lot of money coming back to NY so you can’t give them the farm!
JZ -
Define “fail.”
What if they get to the playoffs and go to 5 games in the first round but lose a well-played fifth game?
What if they win the first round, but lose in the second round in any manner?
What if they get to the WS, but lose in any manner?
I think there’s ways they don’t win the WS where Girardi and Cashman get to keep their jobs.
keith:
My point is that the Yankees have not had a bat this good in their system for years–probably not since Derek Jeter.
If we’re to rank the Yankees’ prospects, he is probably the top on the list.
Tom K…. did you feel the same way when the Yanks didnt get Santana last year for Hughes/Kennedy? Wouldnt it be nice to have the best left hander in baseball on our team? Kennedy is probably gonna be pumping gas somehwere…..
“When the Yankees started keeping players like that is when they got back to being the Yankees again.”
Exactly.
Joba is the better thrower.. Phil is the better pitcher! I think Phil’s mental makeup is much more advanced than Joba. If Joba ever figures it out then watch out, but when? No one knows!
The other what-if is what if they win 95 games but miss out on the playoffs because the Rangers, for instance, win 96? Or the Rays?
I belive Cashman is so commited to developing his young players that he would do it even if it cost him his job.
He made a comment in that regard last winter I believe.
If the yankees don’t move now to get the best pitcher in the game then we deserve to lose for a couple of years. I don’t get thi s organization over the past couple of years. They give big contracts to washed up losers like randy johnson, kevin brown, jaret wright, carl pavano, jeff weaver, and so on. But when the best pitcher in the game who can match up against josh beckett is available everyone is like no we can’t do it. This is why the Red Sox have been beating us because they sign good free agents like josh beckett and they know how to judge and develop talent. This organization is in a state of flux we need to get our act together.
Joba, Hughes, Montero = UNTOUCHABLES
if the above is true then
2009 (and possibly 2010) world series = unreachable
eric
July 13th, 2009 at 7:17 pm
Here is one thing I don’t get. I’m not a “win now” extremest, but Isn’t the point of every season to win the title? Whose to say if they kept Joba they would win 2 or 3 titles in the next decade. Point is, Halladay, CC, AJ, Andy, #5 (Hughes? Miltre? Wang?) is a formidable rotation, and those top 3 in the playoffs gives them an excellent chance at winning in 09 and ‘10. This isn’t a guy with diminishing stuff by any calculation (saber metric or traditional), and is a proven winner in the toughest division in baseball.
Also- Austin Jackson does not project to be Adam Jones and his strikeout rates are alarmingly high for AAA.
————————————————————
Instead of knocking down Jackson and talking about his strikeout rates compared to Jones at the same age and experience, try checking the actual facts, first. You’re obviously going on assumptions.
http://www.baseball-reference......nes-001ada
waste,not waist.
@ Rebecca- Sure his ceiling is much higher as a hitter than Jorge, but you have to deal with the realities that no one in baseball (Keith Law, Baseball America, Baseball Prospectus etc…) believe Montero will be a catcher, and therin lies the problem. Alex is going to be a DH in 4 or 5 years (if not less, see Lowell, Michael) and Tex will be at 1b either through his contract or close to it. He’ll be am a major liability as a catcher (yes, cue the he helps the team by hitting hr’s defense).
I’m on the record saying I didn’t want Santana because his peripherals were diminishing (along with his velocity)- but Halladay is a totally different beast.
With no caving in with Montero as part of a deal, it comes down to having Joba or Phil as the starting point or Toronto doesn’t blink.
Phil has made a case to stay with more maturity and willingness to do with what he’s given. Joba’s stubborness and playing the blame game makes him the top candidate if tomorrow were July 31st. Add SS Eduardo Nunez and C Austin Romine and Toronto goes in a cold sweat. Add RHP Ivan Nova if necessary. No Vernon Wells involved.
Show some patience and let the young guys develop.
Anyone else not feeling this HR derby?
JZ -
Josh Beckett was not a free agent.
Don’t keep comparing the Santana situation to the Halladay situation.
The two situations are completely different.
The Yankees didn’t make the playoffs last year. They can’t afford not to make the playoffs this year.
Also, evaluations and situations change. Just because you didn’t make a move two years ago doesn’t mean you don’t make one now.
Also, folks seem to forget the Yankees final offer was Hughes, Marquez and Cabrera for Santana and Minnesota turned it down.
It wasn’t that they weren’t willing to trade a young pitcher. Smith foolishly turned it down.
Nephew watch…..
1-1 with a walk so far tonight. West Virginia is losing to Augusta 1-0 in the 4th.
He’s now hitting .452.
Starting to talk about the possibility of moving him in the next month if he keeps hitting. We shall see.
“Joba, Hughes, Montero = UNTOUCHABLES
if the above is true then
2009 (and possibly 2010) world series = unreachable”
I don’t see this written in stone anywhere.
The Yankees are one of the best teams in baseball as is right now.
They don’t need Halladay to get to the World Series. Not at that price.
“Typically, players don’t go to AA at the age of 19 and play as if they are a minor-league veteran. That is what Montero has done.”
Hasn’t happened since…..Delmon Young did it 4 years ago.
S.A. =
Not feeling it at all.
Joba shouldn’t be untouchable. He could get a deal done without Hughes and Montero.
“Joba, Hughes, Montero = UNTOUCHABLES”
Montero maybe… not the other two. One of them can get dealt for Doc…
Terry from NH
July 13th, 2009 at 8:20 pm
Joba is the better thrower.. Phil is the better pitcher! I think Phil’s mental makeup is much more advanced than Joba. If Joba ever figures it out then watch out, but when? No one knows!
——————————————————
Joba is the better thrower and pitcher it is not even close. Once Joba puts everything together as a starter he will be one of the best in baseball.
Chamberlain as a starter 3.52 era in 154.1 ip
Hughes as a starter 5.22 era 141.1ip
Hughes is right where he belongs in the bullpen.
JZ- couldn’t agree with you more on this.. Halladay and CC (1-2) during the playoffs would be an awesome combo and a guy like him never comes along often. It’s really a no-brainer for Cashman. Nobody really knows how the players will pan out down the road, but Halladay is an ace in every phacet of the game and you don’t let that slip through the cracks!
@ GreenBeret7- Yes, Jackson project to have 2x more strikeouts than Jones did (and 1+ year more) at AAA than jones did. Along with 25hr’s, and a Slg 100pts higher.
I don’t even bother with the HR Derby – I’ve got the Golden Girls on and I may watch the Twilight Zone. The only reason to tune in to the HR Derby would be to see Mo, Jeter and Tex hanging out with other stars……
Whether Montero catches or not is immaterial. He has an elite bat. When you have an elite bat, you are an elite prospect and he will see the field in the majors very, very early in his career.
He’s a better defensive catcher than Mike Piazza was at a similar stage in their respective careers.
He’s not a stiff back there.
“@ Rebecca- Sure his ceiling is much higher as a hitter than Jorge, but you have to deal with the realities that no one in baseball (Keith Law, Baseball America, Baseball Prospectus etc…) believe Montero will be a catcher, and therin lies the problem. Alex is going to be a DH in 4 or 5 years (if not less, see Lowell, Michael) and Tex will be at 1b either through his contract or close to it. He’ll be am a major liability as a catcher (yes, cue the he helps the team by hitting hr’s defense).”
This is entirely possible, but he’s also just 19 years old. You give him some more time before worrying about whether or not he can stick at catcher.
FWIW, his CS rate 29%. Posada’s is 30%.
This rotation as is, is not good enough to make the playoffs, let alone win the World Series.
For a team that has so much invested in this year (new stadium, jobs on the line, missing the playoffs last year), you would think the GM would be proactive and realize this rotation needs fixing.
yeah that’s what we need, another DH. While we are on the topic Girardi needs to get Posada in the lineup more… when he is not catching he should be the DH and not Matsui. Matsui can come off the bench and PH almost every game. Posada is one of the best hitters on our team and he sits too much.
SJ, fantastic news about your nephew. What a dream come true for him…….but he’s worked hard to get where he is, so good for him.
Well Doreen Cashman should have been fired years ago especially after the collapse in 2004 against the Red Sox, and Girardi needs to be fired because he and his coaching staff don’t know what the hell there doing. This team as it is right now is doomed for a first round lose in the playoffs, I don’t see this team advancing to the alcs unless they face the rangers first round.
I love how they manicured the grass to include the Arch and – is that the state house?
“The Yankees didn’t make the playoffs last year. They can’t afford not to make the playoffs this year.”
Agree, SJ… if only more people understood this rather than being content this year and dreaming of a hypothetical 2012 team with a 25 man homegrown roster…
Obviously Cash is going to get another pitcher or two. If he doesn’t, you could make the case that he’s being negligent. He’s got no business sitting on 2 reliable pitchers and 3 big ?……….
Montero is off-limits, that is pretty much established.
One of Hughes or Joba should not be though for a guy like Halladay. Nobody is saying give them both up, but one? Absolutely.
“Agree, SJ… if only more people understood this rather than being content this year and dreaming of a hypothetical 2012 team with a 25 man homegrown roster…”
I want to win this season. I don’t want it to cost us 2010-2020, too.
“Well Doreen Cashman should have been fired years ago especially after the collapse in 2004 against the Red Sox, and Girardi needs to be fired because he and his coaching staff don’t know what the hell there doing. This team as it is right now is doomed for a first round lose in the playoffs, I don’t see this team advancing to the alcs unless they face the rangers first round.”
Getting to the playoffs would, in fact, be an argument that Girardi does know what he’s doing.
Boy, Pulols is a really charming guy – very good interview. Impressive guy.
I’m sure Cashman will try and get a starter, but doesn’t mean he will be successful though.
There is not much out there on the pitching front. Certainly not many guys that are locks to be better than Andy/Joba, which is what we need.
Who would be surprised if in 5 years nobody knows who you are talking about when you say Montero and Roy Halladay has 3 more seasons with 20 wins in the NL.
rebecca – from what i’m reading (and i admit i follow minor league baseball just as much as i do the wnba which is zilch)montero may not even be a catcher once he finally makes it to the bigs…he ain’t playing 1B, he can’t play in the outfield – so DH it is…where will arod, jeter, and the rest of the yankees that will be getting older play then?
as for :2009 (and possibly 2010) world series = unreachable”
I don’t see this written in stone anywhere.
The Yankees are one of the best teams in baseball as is right now.
They don’t need Halladay to get to the World Series. Not at that price.
i really wanted to say the playoffs are unreachable but i wanted to be nice…if the yankees starting rotation the rest of the year is cc, aj, pettite joba and your minor league scrub of the week the yankees won’t be making the playoffs this year – and next year you’ll once again have to “hope joba and hughes pitch like they were expected” thats alot to ask – plus they will probably still be on an innings limit….
if joba and pettite remain in the rotation this year and pitch like they are doing you’ll need rivera to pitch 2 innings every time they are on the mound – and th ebullpen will have 6 arms in need of TJ surgery…
I love it when we make proclamations about the future around here. Move over Miss Cleo.
I could use a little help here:
Amidst the Halladay speculation and posts, I’ve often seen how some people are claiming that the Blue Jays will “insist” that we take on either Vernon Wells or Alex Rios’ Contracts in order to obtain Doc.
My question: has anybody posted a detailed comparison of Wells & Rios’ deals, to see just how bad they are?
I’ve seen a “$107 Million Dollar” figure mentioned for Wells – but what is the length of that deal?
With ~$40 Million coming off the Yankees Books next year – including Johnny Damon, Hideki Matsui and Xavier Nady – could Rios be an attractive or adequate replacement in our OF?
Please help me understand their existing deals better. (Because if we do take a “bad” contract off the Blue Jays hands, it can only lessen their demands for some of our better prospects).
Thanks.
You have to give up a lot to get a lot back is what im trying to say.
If giving up Montero (who I’ve seen play twice in person)means we get Roy Halladay (not Denny Neagle, or Jay Witasick)thats a move i think Cash has to either make or very seriously consider. Yes, he’s a beast at the plate and has enormous upside, but Halladay is a move that puts the Yankees in the drivers seat.
Yeah, Cashman should have been fired because it was his fault the team blew a 3-0 lead.
He manage the team that year? Is he the guy who kept running Tom Gordon out there when he was too freaked out to pitch?
Was he the guy who refused to run on Wakefield and Schilling and also refused to bunt on Schilling?
Please. Any other manager in the sport would have and should have been fired for that performance.
That loss wasn’t on the GM. It was on the manager, coaching staff and the 25 guys in the clubhouse.
I have to imagine Pujols took something at some point in his career. The guy is a monster… i wonder if he is on the list?
If people are wanting to win a world series this year why should Montero be off limits. You have a better chance to win a world series this year with Halladay, Joba and Hughes on the team. You might as well trade Montero and Jackson in a package for Halladay if you only care about winning a world series this year.
if hughes is in the deal the pen takes a hit.
i also would not trade montero,
he should be off limits.
in a few years if he is mashing like pujols it is going to hurt bad.
joba & 3 others.
not hughes,montero or ajax.
By taking on Halladay’s and Rios contract, I would think that the Jays could afford to keep Wells?
“rebecca – from what i’m reading (and i admit i follow minor league baseball just as much as i do the wnba which is zilch)montero may not even be a catcher once he finally makes it to the bigs…he ain’t playing 1B, he can’t play in the outfield – so DH it is…where will arod, jeter, and the rest of the yankees that will be getting older play then?”
Montero is a better catcher than most people are giving him credit for.
As I said before, his CS rate is 29%–JoPo’s is 30%.
FWIW, Molina’s 47% (i think that’s where it ended up) was tops in the league.
How is giving up one of Joba/Hughes, plus Austin Jackson (who most people agree is a solid player, not a star) and Romine (when we have ton of catching depth and are determined to keep our top prospect there) costing us the 2010-2020 seasons?
What if Hughes or Joba don’t pan out? What if we don’t even have a spot for Romine and have to trade him anyway? (very possible). Does that mean we’re cooked for the next 10 years?
One or two prospects do not make the Yankees franchise.
SJ…it should be blamed on George for making Zim want to leave, because IMO…he was the brains behind Joe Cool.
Get Halladay…try and keep Hughes.
We are not winning the World Series with Wang, Pettite and Joba at the back end of our rotation. Impossible
Prospects are just names we hear about, Angel Berroa was a top prospect at one time. Prospects don’t mean as much to the Yankees then say, the Pirates or D-Rays or Royals
we can just throw $$ at Mauer in 2 years
This week is Pujols time to shine. Many complain he diesn’t get enough spotlight playing in St. Louis but I heard spmeone say he’s doing everything except drive the shuttle from the airport this week.
You don’t trade Montero for Doc and they won’t. That’s not even a consideration.
They have the pieces to do the deal without Montero.
They aren’t going to make a panic move and overpay for the guy.
Here is the one prediction I will make about Doc…..
When a trade is done, everybody will say, “Is that all Toronto got for him”?
Don’t believe me? Go back and see what the Indians got for CC and the Twins got from the Mets. Nothing even close to the price some of you want the Yankees to pay.
Its not going to cost any team their top 4 prospects because Doc, and not the Blue Jays, control this entire process.
Its the power of the no trade.
@ Rebecca- its less about his CS rate and more his physical size behind there, and whether his body as built will be able to sustain the grind.
Montero is going nowhere but to Scranton….Doreen, take the trolley from Santee to Petco / Gas Lamp District, as they are one and the same…..Driving there and you miss so much, besides driving is a nightmare……
Hypothetical
Cash offers Joba, Romine, Ajax and somebody.
JP counters with, Switch Montero with Romine, or I am taking Theo’s offer.
What do you do? Hari-Kari is not an accptable response.
Do GM’s even haggle like that. SJ maybe you can explain the process.
How safe is Cashman’s job?
If he feels he doesn’t need to win this year to save his job, he isin’t giving up top prospects or overpaying to acquire starters at the deadline.
Girardi is taking the fall if we don’t make it this year, but Cash might have more rope with Hal and might be able to talk him into the “rebuilding the farm” plan and buy himself some more time.
Can’t throw money at a guy (Mauer) who may not be a FA.
Not the way you run your team in the non-video game world of MLB.
Maybe the Halladay and Rios to the Yanks for Hughes/Montero and Melky deal will be announced during the All Star Game kind of like when Arod and Boras opted out in the World Series….?
I would love that!!! Then we can have a press conference introducing Halladay and him saying his Dad was a big Yankee fan etc…….
eric
July 13th, 2009 at 8:28 pm
@ GreenBeret7- Yes, Jackson project to have 2x more strikeouts than Jones did (and 1+ year more) at AAA than jones did. Along with 25hr’s, and a Slg 100pts higher.
————————————————————
Jones had 3 years of well over 100 strikouts. It took him 5 minor league seasons to get a 25 homer season. Where and what minor league numbers don’t compare? Nobody ever said Jackson was 25 homer hitter, but, don’t bet against him hit a normal 18-22 year.
“Prospects are just names we hear about, Angel Berroa was a top prospect at one time. Prospects don’t mean as much to the Yankees then say, the Pirates or D-Rays or Royals
we can just throw $$ at Mauer in 2 years”
This is what makes my head hurt.
“we can just throw $$ at Mauer”
You think it’s that easy? It’s not.
First of all, Mauer would have to want to leave Minnesota. Mauer is to Minnesota what Derek Jeter is to NYC, and Minnesota’s about to open a brand new ballpark. Letting Mauer become a Yankee would be like letting Derek Jeter become a Cleveland Indian.
Secondly, Mauer would have to want to come to NY. Not every player does–we were talking about the pressure earlier. Not every player wants to play in the media capital of the world, and I can’t blame them if they don’t.
JZ -
Yes.
Cashman and Girardi are know-nothings who have no business being in the positions they’re in. You should send in your resume. It’s clear the Yankees have just kept these guys hanging in just waiting for you to come along .
Some of you (JZ) are completely ridiculous and unrealistic and clearly have no enjoyment for the game itself and for whatever reason you seem to think the Yankees owe YOU a World Series. As if you actually get a ring or a check.
Puh-leeze.
The best any team can do is field a competitive team with a commitment toward making every effort to win it all. Which the Yankees do. Every year. Most teams do not do this. There are no guarantees in baseball, as in life.
SJ, can the Yankees ask JP to come back to them when he’s got an offer they really like? That gives the Yankees a chance to match it or improve on it without showing their cards…..
Nelson Cruz and Prince Fielder are definitely setting the bar high, each with 11 homers in the first round.
It’s great for St. Louis and great for the game that Pujols is getting so much appreciation this week. He’s not only (arguably) the best and most dangerous hitter in the game, but he’s classy, a good role model, and someone who respects the greats of the game before him.
“@ Rebecca- its less about his CS rate and more his physical size behind there, and whether his body as built will be able to sustain the grind.”
This is true. We’ll see where he is at the end of this season, and how he holds up next season. That will tell us a lot.
“Who would be surprised if in 5 years nobody knows who you are talking about when you say Montero and Roy Halladay has 3 more seasons with 20 wins in the NL.”
Don;t imagine it would come to that, but he’s not the 1st 19 year old to post these numbers in Hi-A and AA. Both Uptons did it. D. Young did it. Some mixed big league results for these guys, but we all know who they are.
I don’t want Hughes or Joba to be traded but if it came down to one of them, I would let Joba go.
I believe the only 2 youngsters we have that are untouchable are Hughes and Montero.
If the Yankees and Jays are serious about a trade … I would offer Joba, Austin Jackson and lower prospect.
But another thing the Yanks can do is say we won’t give you Hughes, Joba or Montero but we’ll take Vernon Wells off your hands as well and build a package around Jackson and Romine and I’m sure that would interest the Jays a lot.
tarheel,
That’s kind of the give and take that goes on.
Usually in a deal like this, each side puts out their “must have’s”, “can’t trade”, in the beginning so they don’t jerk each other around.
For example, if JP says, “I have to have Hughes and Montero Brian or I can’t do it”.
Cash counters with, “Can’t do that, keep me in the loop and we will see what happens”.
As time goes by, prices tend to drop and then you re-engage.
The Yankees probably already know who they wouldn’t include in that deal for any price. The Jays probably don’t know who that player or players are for the Yankees yet.
In the end, the team that agrees to a deal with Toronto will probably agree on the top 2 players that go.
After that, they submit a list of players to the Jays and tell them to pick 1-3 players (whatever they agree on the number) from that list.
Rebecca,
I totally agree with you. Minnesota letting Mauer get away would be akin to the Marlins shipping out Hanley Ramirez, it just cannot happen. When new ballparks are on the horizon, nobody can afford to get rid of the goose that laid the golden egg.
Doreen… everyone knows the Yankees only goal is to win a world series so why shouldnt that be the fans goal also? Also we pay a fortune to go to Yankee games, between the tix, the food, the parkign, the beer etc… we should spend the money on top players like Halladay. If you dont like that you should start to follow the Royals or Pirates, you can enjoy the minor leaguers coming up etc…..
Derek calling Mo the older statesman!! I love it!!
Why is Brandon Inge in the Home Run Derby?
@ Beret- 106k’s is acceptable when you have an OPS of 968 and hit 25hrs, not when your OPS is 850 and slug 456.
Will people stop saying that this team is great. If this team is so great how come they can’t beat Boston or LA. They can’t beat the teams they need to beat in the postseason. And a three man rotation of halladay, Sabathia, and Burnett does get you deep into the postseason. That is one of the best rotations in baseball, a rotation that can beat boston and get you to the world series. If we don’t make this move then you will all regret it once Joba and Andy sinks the yankees postseason chances.
I’m not watching – what else did Jeter say, Grafxkid? Thanks!
Thanks SJ!
Betsy,
Yes. For example, in the Abreu talks, Cash told the Phillies to get back to him before agreeing to a deal.
Cash’s MO has always been to take it right to the wire and then strike.
I think the Yankees were told early on Toronto isn’t interested in trading him within the division. That’s probably the early stance from the Jays.
From that point, they probably told JP to keep in touch and see how it goes.
That’s the kind of give and take that goes on with GM’s.
Some guys just don’t get along with each other and that makes it really hard because they are only willing to make deals if they can hose the other guys.
Far as I know, Cash and JP have a good working relationship.
Montero is built like Joe Mauer. He’s 19 yo and already a top minor league talent. If he can be the Yankees catcher of the future, after Posada is gone, IMO you don’t include him in a deal for a 32 yo pitcher, even though he’s probably the best over 32 pitcher in baseball.
Now if you want to talk about Lincecum, who IMO, is the best pound for pound pitcher in baseball, then I’ll consider moving Montero.
If I’m Steinbrenner, I’d be hard pressed to take on Halladay’s present and future salary, god forbid Rios also, and have to pay the 40% luxury tax premium for every dollar I spend on them, especially with the uncertainty that next year even more seats might go unsold.
The best scenario is Halladay going to the NL, not signing an extension, and then the Yankees can “look” at him when and if he becomes a FA.
I agree with GB7, the draft picks, protected up to the 16th pick, are not worth giving up two already developed/developing players like Hughes/Joba/Montero or Jackson, for 1 1/2 years of Halladay.
I thought most of us wanted to see the Yankees get younger, were excited about the minor league talent, and wanted to get rid up the burdonsome long term pricey contracts.
Inge is in because nobody wants to ruin their swing from the AL….
I don’t want Hughes or Joba to be traded but if it came down to one of them, I would let Joba go.
I believe the only 2 youngsters we have that are untouchable are Hughes and Montero.
If the Yankees and Jays are serious about a trade … I would offer Joba, Austin Jackson and lower prospect.
But another thing the Yanks can do is say we won’t give you Hughes, Joba or Montero but we’ll take Vernon Wells off your hands as well and build a package around Jackson and Romine and I’m sure that would interest the Jays alot
Pat M -
Thanks for the suggestion. I will definitely follow-up on that. We have Thursday afternoon and a good part of Friday.
I want to punch Chris Berman in the face
He talked about being more consistent when asked what can the team do to beat boston and LA.
When they ask Montero what position he plays, his answer should be, “I bat 4th”
Please, stop being dense. This isn’t the BCS. Head to head regular season matchups are largely meaningless.
They won the season series against the Sox and Rays last year. How did that help them make the playoffs?
Learn about baseball and stop spitting out the same idiotic drivel you hear from people at ESPN who are just looking to push your buttons because you are a panicked and uninformed Yankee fan.
Jeter said Mo is like a brother of his and how they have a lot of history together. It was a brief interview in the dugout, but as always Jetes said he is honored to be selected!
Is anyone else watching the Home Run Derby and wishing these announcers would be quiet for about 1 second. Or at least stop talking over each other??
SJ44-
If Halladay gets traded, I don’t think it will go to the wire at the trading deadline.
Unless, many of the other fringe teams start falling out of the playoff race before the July 31st deadline, just about every team is looking for pitching. There are only some 7-8 teams at the moment with very little chance of making the playoffs.
joe bucks show on HBO is aweful…. probably has 1 month left
I remember when Bobby Abreu was on the market.
Jayson Stark was on Mike and Mike and Greenberg asked him if the Yankees could get him.
Stark, who has tons of contacts in the Phillies organization, said the following……
“You can’t get Bobby Abreu for nothing. The Yankees don’t have any prospects and you can’t get a player like Bobby Abreu for a non-prospect like CJ Henry”.
If you recall, that’s EXACTLY who the Yankees got Abreu for.
The moral of the story, wait it out, play it out and don’t genuflect everytime a Jayson Stark, Jon Heyman or any other “insider” states without reproach what a team can and can’t get for a player.
Betsy-
What a nice shout out Pete gave you!!! Congratulations on being a great radio caller today.
Btw- if I had to make a guess, I would have said Hughes would be your topic when you called
Joe Buck … somewhere Artie Lange us laughing his ass off lol
keith -
I want the Yankees to win a World Series, too. And it’s disappointing when they don’t. But I do realize that it’s not a given and it’s not a guarantee. And I also realize that there are other major league teams out there who also want to win, or at the very least, I realize that the other teams do not exist to roll over and play dead so that the Yankees win the WS.
It’s also about enjoying the ride.
And it’s about realizing it’s entertainment for me. I don’t get a ring, I don’t get a contract, I don’t get a check. And no one forces me to go to games or pay for food if I go there. And all they owe me is a ballgame for that night, not a WS. Heck, they don’t even owe me a win on the night that I go, though I much prefer that they do. It’s the nature of competition.
How about this?
Halladay and Vernon Wells
FOR
AROD
SJ, JP can put that out there (not that he did) that he won’t trade within the division, but he wouldn’t be doing his job if he didn’t listen to all offers……including from the Yankees (or Sox). The Jays know the Yankees would be very interested in Doc, so there’s no way they are doing anything without seeing what the Yanks are willing to give up. I wasn’t aware that Cash had asked the Phils to get back to him on Abreu – I like that. Let the other teams do the hard work, the haggling, etc…….and maybe the Yanks will sweep in.
Would Johan Santana’s 16-7, 2.53 ERA record with the ‘08 Mets have put the Yankees in a Wild Card situation ? The 9 game spread says so. And that was with a staff of Ponson, Rasner and Igawa at times.
Hindsight is beautiful but Halladay is forwardness.
Well Doreen I could do a better job then Cashman, heck anyone can because Epstein has run circles around this guy. I don’t believe any team can win a world series every year but this organization has done nothing since 2003. This team has not advanced past the alds since the 2004 collapse, and they haven’t had good pitching for years. So if you are saying that the yankees organization has been trying it’s best over the years then the bar must be set real low.
Patrick the Prospect Hugger
July 13th, 2009 at 8:50 pm
I want to punch Chris Berman in the face
————————————————————
lmfao
Frost July 13th, 2009 at 8:55 pm
Joe Buck … somewhere Artie Lange us laughing his ass off lol
Considering he just got a DUI, I don’t think he is.
Cash has good relationships with most GMs, I think – he’s got a lot of friends. I think that helps him because if he asks someone to get back to him, instead of telling Cash to flip off, they are more inclined to agree……
Cash has good relationships with most GMs, I think – he’s got a lot of friends. I think that helps him because if he asks someone to get back to him, instead of telling Cash to flip off, they are more inclined to agree……
Grafxkid, thanks!
Trader,
I thought the same thing. But, with the Jays insisting on no talks with Halladay for a deal prior to making the deal, I don’t know of a team that’s going to meet Toronto’s price without being able to talk to Halladay about an extension.
I also don’t think Doc is waving his no trade without an extension. Or, at minimum, a window to discuss it.
JMO but, the worst case scenario for Toronto would be to hold onto him now. His value goes down in the off-season and not up.
Lots of pressure on Toronto to do this deal now. If they don’t engage the Yankees and/or Red Sox in the talks, the Phillies have no incentive to ramp up a huge offer.
They would be competing against themselves for his services.
Its going to be fascinating to watch all of the machinations take place in the next couple of weeks.
Yankees throw money at everyone else, why wouldn’t they do the same with the best catcher in baseball at his prime age?
I like Hughes, and Joba but Roy Halladay is proven
Again, the ultimate goal for the Yankees is to win the World Series…if Cashman feels this roster can do that, then he will stay put. Personally, I don’t think we can do that with our current rotation
For me, being a fan is just that–being a fan. I don’t get anything out of it other than memories and experiences to share with others, which is all I want in the first place.
As a blogger, it’s a little different. It’s certainly more serious, because I do want to go somewhere with my writing (g-d only knows if I can). It’s more serious because what I’m doing can affect other people–probably not a lot–but if it gives even just one other person something else they enjoy, it’s worth it.
Carl, did he really ? haha what an idiot
eric
July 13th, 2009 at 8:48 pm
@ Beret- 106k’s is acceptable when you have an OPS of 968 and hit 25hrs, not when your OPS is 850 and slug 456.
————————————————————
You’re talking in circles. It took Jones 5 years to reach that total. What’s more, he did it in a high altitude hitter’s league.
Erica, thanks! Yes, it’s a pretty big day for me – I would only take the time to call about a couple of players, lol. I did call Michael Kay recently about a particular topic that I’ve already forgotten. I got through the screener, but I never got on with Kay (I’ve called before, though) because he had guests on for awhile and the screener didn’t want to keep me waiting on hold.
Rebecca-
Sorry again if I offended you by mixing you and Trisha up today. I was kind of crazed at work, but blog commenting during the day helps keep me sane. Sorry I didn’t pay more attention to what I was typing!!
Doreen, I agree with you but its the Yankees philsophy thanks to George to take the fans money and put it on the field into superstars. George always wanted to win for NY and he charged high prices but spent that money on players. With all that comes the lofty expectations for the team which is why we all have lofty expectations also. Its not fair really because we know the team with the highest payroll is really the best team, case in point the RAYS from last year….
JZ
i think cashman & the yankees have come a long way in a short period of time.
our farm system is very good when not long ago it was terrible.
we didn’t have enough to get any deals done.
now we are being mentioned as one of the top 5 teams able to get halladay.
we also have
jeter
posada
wang
cano
mo
melky
gardner
robertson
joba
hughes
coke
pettitte and more helping our club from our system.
it is very hard to repeat.ask the red sox.
Berman and his back-back-back-back and player nicknames have worn thin.
He’s a colossal joke. Only ESPN would have him.
I am tired of seeing this team lose in the first round year after year while Boston is going deep into the postseason and the Red Sox are winning championships. If the yankees fail we will see a dodgers Red Sox world series.
“July 13th, 2009 at 9:01 pm
Rebecca-
Sorry again if I offended you by mixing you and Trisha up today. I was kind of crazed at work, but blog commenting during the day helps keep me sane. Sorry I didn’t pay more attention to what I was typing!!”
I wouldn’t be offended by something like that, just amused
Dear Josh Hamilton–
The only Jesus I want to hear about is the one that’s gonna bat 4th for the Yanks in 2011…
Pete,
Not sure what you did to Rob Neyer !
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/swe.....deal-.html
“I am tired of seeing this team lose in the first round year after year while Boston is going deep into the postseason and the Red Sox are winning championships. If the yankees fail we will see a dodgers Red Sox world series.”
You sound like a Red Sox fan prior to 2004 talking about the Yankees.
SJ
Taking that one step further.
We can all assume Joba/Hughes is our #1. Who is our #2?
How does that compare to Boston or Philly, or?
IMO a real important question for Cashman is who are Boston’s top 2. The double whammy of not getting him, and losing him to your closest rival(like Tex) would be tough.
Thanks.
I can’t believe I am saying this, but I liked the Home Run Derby better when the announcers just yelled “Going, going, gone” all night
If Halladay doesn’t want an extension I’d be ALL OVER that trade
Even so, I still doubt he will be traded anywhere, let alone the Yanks
Cashman has always said he doesn’t want to give up prospects and a lot of money. Certainly, both would be required for Halladay when an extension would be demanded. I strongly doubt the Yankees want to spend much more money. The empty seats at the stadium must have an effect. That said, I would trade Joba, Jackson/Montero, Melky/gardner and another prospect for Halladay and Rios. Rios has a high salary, but nowhere near Wells $21 per year. I just don’t think the Yankees will add $15M or so this year and $30M of so next year, but I can dream. I do like Rios.
Bru you are right. Re-establishing the farm was one of the best things Cashman has done during his tenure.
“Pete,
Not sure what you did to Rob Neyer !”
Let’s be honest, Pete’s comments aren’t exactly the smartest thing he ever said if you look back at deals made during the July trade deadline.
ive watched this blog more then the hr derby
This rule by the blue jays only helps the yanks. We dont need time to talk with the player, we offer a ton of money, a world series, and one of his best friends AJ Burnett…he will say yes or we will work out a contract and he will eventually sign…another reason it will help us…some teams may be hesitant to trade for him now, so that lowers the teams in competition for him.
This just keeps getting better for the yankees…yes, their demands are high. BUT THEY WILL DROP! The less time a team gets to have him, the less prospects a team will give up.
Reasoning:
To trade him now, he’s at his highest price (during the season when a team needs a good pitcher for a pennant race and they have him for another full season)
To trade him in the winter, the urge and want to trade for a pitcher isnt AS high as it is in the middle of a pennant race
To trade him next summer, there’s only a half of season left on his contract, and teams will again give up less prospects.
SO as you can see…his price and value will only DROP! So if the Jays are gonna trade him at all, they would be smart to trade him now….thats the SMARTEST way, they are not gonna get more for him a year or year and half down the line.
I think the only team Halladay would be a PERFECT fit for Halladay and the Jays is the Yankees…and that’s important because Jays need to accept the trade and Halladay needs to waive the no trade clause.
We have really good prospects, tons of $$ to offer, and the appeal of a great chance for a world series win!
Kevin James is on Comedy Central – the (much) heavier twin brother of Eric Hinske. It’s really uncanny – from the side they are truly identical; from the front, they look a little alike.
JZ -
Sometimes you try and the moves you make don’t work. That’s life. You make it sound like they twiddle their thumbs all day. So glad you think you could do better.
I’m not saying they’ve done everything right, but I believe no organization does more to try and improve each year. As much – sure, some teams do as much – but none do more. Have some teams had some better results lately, sure. I just find my approach is lot more fun than thinking the Yankees owe me something.
I think we need an official LoHud poll.
When will Roy Halladay be traded???
A) This week (week of July 12th)
B) Next week (week of July 19th)
C) Between July 26-July 30th
D) July 31st just before the deadline
E) He will not be traded
@ beret
Adam Jones (5th yr pro)Age 21 AAA- 314,382,586,968
Austin Jackson (5th yr pro) Age 22 AAA 327,390,456,846
lower BA, slighly lower OBP, but much better OPS. Just saying, Jackson does not project as much as Jones, and Jones was a year younger. The HR difference, 25 to 4 is pretty stark, especially when you look at the strike out totals.
LOL ! Cash is King You are right. I do sound like a Red Sox fan prior to 2004. LOL
c
Who did you think-ski? It’s Eric Hinske!
“LOL ! Cash is King You are right. I do sound like a Red Sox fan prior to 2004. LOL”
Just remember that the Yankees are in better shape now then they were after the 2004 season. The worse has already happened, it’s going to get better, if not this season then next year for sure.
I am not ready to call Joba or Hughes a #1 just yet
thats a big assumption given how they have pitched early in their careers
This a fair comparison…Roy Halladay 2009 = David Cone 1995. Cone was 32, an ace, and helped us win 3 World Series. And he was traded by the Blue Jays, to the Yankees for 3 minor leaguers nobody heard of again
keith -
They do put the money on the field. They do try all the time. The philosophy of the Yankees has never changed, but they have not won the WS every year since George took over. It’s not that easy. All you can do is try and keep making that commitment to the team and to the fans that you will continue to try. Hey, how many other teams have the record the Yankees have had since 1995? It’s quite a run, even if there hasn’t been a WS in the more recent years.
Does Hank, “I told you so about Santana” have much of a say?
Doreen I don’t believe that this organization owes me something. I’m just a big fan of the yankees and I want to see this team do it’s best. And over the past couple of years I have not seen this team try it’s best to win. If you lose and you tried your best then you deserve credit.
eric
July 13th, 2009 at 9:08 pm
@ beret
Adam Jones (5th yr pro)Age 21 AAA- 314,382,586,968
Austin Jackson (5th yr pro) Age 22 AAA 327,390,456,846
lower BA, slighly lower OBP, but much better OPS. Just saying, Jackson does not project as much as Jones, and Jones was a year younger. The HR difference, 25 to 4 is pretty stark, especially when you look at the strike out totals.
————————————————————
Whatever you say. AS I said, nobody with any common sense or anybody who’s ever seen Jackson play has said he was a 25 homer guy. I noticed that you didn’t answer the question about the difference in leagues. If Jackson gets to the majors, the numbers will match fairly closely to Jones’.
How is it a “told you so” about Santana? Johan has lost a lot off his fastball and we’d be without Hughes, Melky and others if that trade had been made.
I’m glad we never got Santana, simply not worth it.
JZ
July 13th, 2009 at 9:06 pm
Bru you are right. Re-establishing the farm was one of the best things Cashman has done during his tenure.
————————————————————
he did it quickly & with a vigilance.
if cashman maintains the same vigilance with the system going forward we are in nice shape for years.
Adam Jones’ ceiling is WAY WAY higher than Jackson’s
@ GreenBeret7
Have seen Jackson play in person several times. Jones was the superior prospect with a higher ceiling. If you don’t agree with what I’m saying, see Keith Law.
give the rs credit for their farm system but cashman has done a better job.
the rs hit a hr in one year of the draft.
cashman has done it spread out.
we also have a lot more pitchers.
Santana is not worth it? come on
If Santana lost his fastball then you have to be fair and say Joba has as well
Santana would be just fine on the Yankees
“And over the past couple of years I have not seen this team try it’s best to win. ”
Playing .700+ baseball through the second half of the 2007 season to go from, what was it, 14 games back to nearly taking the division doesn’t count as trying hard enough?
Patrick the Prospect Hugger
July 13th, 2009 at 9:13 pm
How is it a “told you so” about Santana? Johan has lost a lot off his fastball and we’d be without Hughes, Melky and others if that trade had been made.
I’m glad we never got Santana, simply not worth it.
***
I agree with this. I am very anti-Santana. I think he is a lousy teammate. Hughes and Melky have been a huge part of this team in 2009
“Santana is not worth it? come on
If Santana lost his fastball then you have to be fair and say Joba has as well
Santana would be just fine on the Yankees”
There are several red flags with Santana.
I wouldn’t say Adam Jones ceiling is “Way Way higher” than Jackson’s. It’s higher with Jones ceiling being an all-star capable player when he was projected out a couple of years ago. While Jackson is projected to be a ML starting outfielder right now. It is only fair to compared their ceilings again once Jackson reaches the ML level.
I didn’t know Jon Hamm was playing in the celebrity softball game!!!!! I would leave MPB Johnny Damon for him
If Doc Halliday is moved, many are going to be slightly surprised in what Toronto gets in exchange for him….I still say if a club takes on one of either Wells / Rios is a done deal….And Toronto will be bring back maybe 1 upper tier propspect……
wfan is killing me.
it is going to take a big time deal to get halladay.
hughes,jackson,montero & maybe something else.
what people have to realize is what do the jays get if he walks?
2 picks that are years away from making a difference if at all.
“we also have a lot more pitchers”
Do we? Or do we just think we do as part of general overrating of Yankees prospects?
Is the light to show the flight of the ball supposed to make this HR Derby more exciting?
It’s not working for me so far.
If the Yanks need to take a tack on in order to obtain Halladay, I would rather it be Rios. That is mostly because it irritates me to no end when Michael Kay calls him a “Yankee killer”
Santana is 30, Joba is 23. Losing velo at 30 is way different than at 23.
It isn’t even about him losing velocity. Just look at the guys we would have had to give up? Hughes, Melky, possibly Kennedy, some other prospects.
I’d rather have Hughes and Melky right now than Santana.
Roy Halladay being interviewed at the HR debry…
bet they ask about a trade
Actually, looking back on the non-Santana trade wasn’t realy my point. (Poorly worded.)
I think the philosophy of either prospects, OR money is valid. But I wonder if it still holds.
i’ll take rios if they take swisher.
joba,romine,swisher & one more for halladay & rios
we keep montero,ajax,hughes
It’s so classic that we have gone from giving up on Hughes last year to giving up on Joba this year. Bottom line if Halladay ends up in the NL the Yankees should be more than pleased just like with Santana. Hughes and Joba are two very important pieces for this team going forward and two young players as this team tries to morph into a more youthful squad. Both will not require much in the way of payroll thereby allowing the Yankees to spend on other positions they simply don’t have prospects at. Next year they need at least two outfielders. And bottom line even with Joba’s struggles, as most young players tend to do, both have proved they can pitch in the spotlight and in NY. And giving Halladay a big deal just adds to the risk of the other contracts they just took on. I love him as a pitcher, but this would only be disastirous if the Sox got him this year. Beckett is approaching free agency and eventually they need to lock up Lester. I doubt they will want to give up their top guys for Halladay either
I’m sure AJ is all the way in Doc’s ear. Wouldn’t you be if you played with him?
I dont care where he goes as long as it’s not to boston.
So Santana has red flags?
Then what does CC have–he has been so-so and AJ? getting bombed by the Sox twice
Any red flags for Joba? or Hughes?
“Do we? Or do we just think we do as part of general overrating of Yankees prospects?”
No, we have alot of pitchers because even with a lot of injuries especially at the AAA and AA level, the Yankees still have pitchers at every level stepping up.
If Halladay loves Toronto, he would REALLY love New York.
When they say “about” in Canada, it sounds like “aboot” that’s just weird
aww, they just interviewed Doc – he’s such a good guy. I think he really loves in Toronto – I find it sad that he has to leave (well, there’s a good chance of that anyway……
Man I’m here in St Louis for the All Star game.The city is crazy delusional about pujol’s greatness.
The St Louis media,is acting ,as if everybody is here to see only Pujols.Ryan Howard is from St Louis,I hope he wins the Hr derby now.
They actually say that on the sports shows Pujols is the featured person,what!.They frame the shows for the residents of St Louis,that everybody is here to see Pujols.
Pulols is a good player,but the All Star games reprsents All Stars from all Mlb.
PUJOLS can’t play baseball by himself.It’s NAUSEATING to listen to the conceit here in ST LOUIS.
PUjOlS IS A BIG FISH IN A SMALL POND.Could he make it in the AL East,who knows,maybe.
Jack Buck is in his home town,and where he and all of his family still live.
I won’t bore you on how great he thinks the Cards are.In the
2004 WS he used the word Phenomenal TO DESCRIBE EVERY PLAY the Cards did.This is when I lost respect for him,as too bias.
The Cards were swept in the WS,after having the best record in baseball,lost 4 straight.So I wondered what games was he watching.
“So Santana has red flags?
Then what does CC have–he has been so-so and AJ? getting bombed by the Sox twice
Any red flags for Joba? or Hughes?”
CC, AJ and Hughes are healthy this season.
Santana’s had knee surgery and elbow problems, and there are rumors—unverified, only rumors—that he recieved a cortisone shot.
His peripherals are also the lowest they’ve been since he started pitching–which looks like Santana may be on the wrong end of his prime.
Question? If the yankees land Roy, what do you think the reception will be from fans, media, and more importantly mlb?
Pujols isn’t a good player, he’s a great player and is headed to the HOF.
And Montero should be completely off limits no matter what. Whether he is a catcher remains to be seen, but what we do see is a rare talent at the plate with unreal power for his age. He could project into the type of player that doesn’t come around often and don’t think you can trade him in any package. When the Sox traded Han Ram that was quite similar, but Beckett was locked up for a while and younger than Halladay. You would have to think along those lines for a trade. Halladay and Rios is like Beckett and Lowell. No way you would ever include Joba or others like that.
“Pujols isn’t a good player, he’s a great player and is headed to the HOF.”
Best player in MLB and it isn’t even close
Who cares what Keith Law has to say? In his most recent chat, he says the Yankees are protecting (re: hiding) Phil in the pen ………..implying that he’s a mediocre starter at best. Implying, heck – he’s said that repeatedly over and over. The fact that he remains stuck with this perception of Phil (while every other scout is buzzing about him) tells me all I need to know about Law. He’s arrogant and rude to boot.
Haiku:
Pujols > Arod
He’s that good.
Cash is King is right. The organization is better off then they were after 2004.
Q:
Doc what is the best way to pitch to Mauer?
A:
With nobody on base.
Smart man.
Dude why are you comparing Santana to every pitcher on the Yankees. Here is the only question you need to ask yourself – would you rather have Hughes and Melky or Santana for the next 6 years?
Considering Santana has lost velocity and costs a zillion dollars I take the former.
I never liked Keith Law and thought he’s given too much credit for being this scout guru because if he was so good at his job than why isn’t he working for some team or MLB?
i think it’s a sad state of yankee affairs when they spend about 400 million on free agents in the winter and still are in a position where they need to sign a guy like halladay.
maybe they should spend more on coaching and teaching the game and get the players they have to overachieve instead of underachieve.
if the only thing that bails out this management is just signing every best player that becomes available then is this really a team worth rooting for.
when you watch the angels, you see a style of play. same with the twins and the rays.
can it be said of the yankees that they have a strong well defined style of play?
it just looks like a lot of good players who go out and play less than the sum of the parts.
that’s why i can’t get excited about halladay. if it constantly takes signing someone like him, something is really wrong with what this yankee team under cashman is all about.
the new york cashmans really are a very boring team.
Keith Law is the man.
Smartest man at ESPN IMO
heres a scenario that will hopefully open some eyes..
lets say that the yankees miraculously get the WC this year even with joba and pettite pitching the way they do.
chances are very good that they will be facing the angels..
so in a 5 game series of which the first 2 and the last one is played in anaheim (and we know how well that turns out)- they’ll pitch cc and aj in the first 2 games. Here comes the eye opener..games 3 and 4 will be played in NY – with…wait for it…pettite and joba pitching in those games – yes the same 2 who are horrendous pitching in YS…
now if you have halladay – aj becomes your 3rd pitcher (in NY) with pettite pitching the first 4 innings of game #4, joba the next 2 and hughes and mo to finish..and if you need a 5th game you’ll have halladay and even cc (for a few innings) to pitch that game if you are desperate – (of course halladay is my game #1 starter in this scenario)
Actually, Pujols is the type of hitter, I thought Arod was going to be in early in his career. A hitter that hits for a high average and will hit 40 or more homers every season.
Be real guys… you think Cashman is giving up Joba, his golden child? It’s going to take one of Joba or Hughes. I doubt Cashman is going to give either or them up.
Patrick – Agree.
People don’t like Keith Law for some reason, but the man knows his stuff.
“Keith Law is the man.
Smartest man at ESPN IMO”
That’s not saying much.
The yanks don’t need Halladay and they aren’t going to get him.
“People don’t like Keith Law for some reason, but the man knows his stuff.”
Maybe because he comes off as a condescending nerd.
Why is it that when Pujols name is mentioned, people feel the need to say he’s better than A-Rod when A-Rod was never even mentioned?
“Why is it that when Pujols name is mentioned, people feel the need to say he’s better than A-Rod when A-Rod was never even mentioned?”
Because he is and I’m one of Arod’s biggest supporters, but I can’t run away from the truth.
Cashman controls this trade… not Halladay, not Burnett, not JP.
If Cashman doesn’t want to give up Joba or Hughes (Montero is untouchable as we all agree), then this whole point is moot.
Halladay controls where he goes, but I doubt he is going to be picky. If a legit contender like the Yanks, Boston, Dodgers, Phils, Angels comes calling, you think he will turn that down?
I love the game and baseball has sooo many player’s that play well,it is a game if pitching,and I like good pitchers,
but to call him or any great ,I guess that’s a matter of opinion.I just lose myself in a good game.
I think you’re hung up on the word great,to me the only great person I know of ,walked on water.
Pujols will make the HOF no doubt.
Cashman has to give up Joba or Hughes because that will save him from giving up Montero.
Patrick the Prospect Hugger
July 13th, 2009 at 9:29 pm
Keith Law is the man.
Smartest man at ESPN IMO
————————————————————
You may as well have said he was the smartest kid in ‘Special Ed’.
“Actually, Pujols is the type of hitter, I thought Arod was going to be in early in his career. A hitter that hits for a high average and will hit 40 or more homers every season.”
yes…arod has had SUCH a disappointing career
Maybe so GB7 but Law really does know his stuff. Not only when it comes to prospects either.
Johan Santana:
18gms 18 starts 116 inn 103 hits 112ks 3.09era
any red flags there?
it hurts because we want to identify this team with its young players but trading for Halladay makes the team better
There will always be a new group of prospects in a year or two
I doubt Halladay will pull a Peavy and dictate terms.
Peavy’s agent made it clear from the outset that he didn’t want to go to the East Coast or AL.
Halladay has not made such demands. Infact, he said he would be willing to play for the Yankees or Sox or play in the NL. He isin’t being a drama queen like Peavy was.
excuses for puljos on the radio ‘he played is in a double header”
“I love the game and baseball has sooo many player’s that play well,it is a game if pitching,and I like good pitchers,
but to call him or any great ,I guess that’s a matter of opinion.I just lose myself in a good game.
I think you’re hung up on the word great,to me the only great person I know of ,walked on water.
Pujols will make the HOF no doubt.”
Okay, but know your baseball history because Pujols first nine years in the majors is probably unmatched by almost any other MLB player. If you don’t believe me then look it up.
The numbers don’t lie, they tell you he’s great.
http://www.baseball-reference......al01.shtml
“Why is it that when Pujols name is mentioned, people feel the need to say he’s better than A-Rod when A-Rod was never even mentioned?”
Because Arod is one of the players who greatness is defined by……and to help the poor putz, who called him a big fish in a small pond and wondered whether he could hit in the AL, get some perspective.
Exactly, Cash is King.
It’s going to be one of Joba, Hughes, or Montero. If we want to keep Jesus, we have to give up one of the pitchers.
The question is, Is Cashman willing to do so?
montero is our #4 hitter in 2011..
is he better than AROD (our current #4 hitter) doubtful – now many WS have they won with AROD (umm that would be zero) – how many WS have they appeared with AROD (umm once again zero) – this isn’t a knock on arod – its an endorsement that you win with pitching
barry bonds may have been the best hitter and most feared hitter in baseball – how many WS did he win?
pujols in the best hitter on the planet – and the cardinals are 7 games over .500..the sf giants who have no offense whatsoever but have a great rotation are 10 games over .500
montero is nice if he plays to his potential – (see young, delmon) but he won’t be able to win the WS alone – (see Williams, Ted or Mattingly, Don)
Cash is King
Not debating who is better just find it interesting that Alex gets brought into most Pujols conversations.
“yes…arod has had SUCH a disappointing career”
Don’t try to be a smartbutt because I never said anything about being disappointing as Arod’s numbers speak for themselves. However, that doesn’t mean as a hitter Arod is as good as Pujols because he’s not.
Pujols should have 4 hrs. But A-Rod > Pujols
“Maybe so GB7 but Law really does know his stuff. Not only when it comes to prospects either.”
Again, if he’s so good then why isn’t he still working in MLB instead of that clown show in Bristol?
I wish we could get rid of A-rod and replace him with Pujols. Pujols is the man.
“But A-Rod > Pujols”
Not with a bat in their hands, he isn’t.
You put Alex in the NL he would destroy it.
So many have come to the AL East, and struggled that’s all I’m saying.
Why don’t you have an intelligent debate,without the name calling,it’s a blog…And,for the record that’s what St Louis calls it’s market a pond,with Pujols as the big fish.
just sayin
wouldn’t law make more money with espn and not have to travel?
ps not a fan of most of the “experts”
It must be calm and relaxing playing in St. Louis where the fans will never, ever boo you no matter what. You can go 0-4, 0-10, 0-40 and they’ll never boo. You could even go 3-3 your first 3 AB’s and then come up in the bottom of the 9th with a runner on and down by 1 and K and not get booed. Must be nice.
A-rod is an all-time great player.
Pujols is an all-time better player.
However it’s kind of silly to say “Boy I really expected A-rod to be the kind of hitter that Pujols is.” A-rod is freaking amazing. Career 147 OPS+ and he DOES average 40+ homers a year. You can’t expect any player, no matter how good he is to be that good. A-rod has met or exceeded all expectations and to say anything different is just goofy
“I wish we could get rid of A-rod and replace him with Pujols.”
Okay, where you playing him? DH? Both him and Tex are too good defensively and too young to be full time DHs.
Sab is right. A-rod is an overrated hitter and he is not the best in the game. He strikeouts a ton and has no game plan when he comes up to the plate. Pujols is better then him, as been more clutch then him, and has a world series ring which A-rod doesn’t have.
Pujols> A-rod
A-Rod is a great player.
Albert Pujols is better.
Haha A-rod actually usually has the best game plan of any hitter when he’s at the plate. That’s the core of his game. He studies the pitchers and is a total guess hitter. He isn’t a “see the ball hit the ball” kind of guy at all.
All I know is that in 2007, Alex had the best season I think I’ve ever seen…….
Pat M: How many HR and RBI did A-Rod have at the break in 07?
Pujols has 32 and 87
“A-rod is an overrated hitter and he is not the best in the game”
Let’s not get carried away. Arod is a phenomenal talent and one of the best right handed hitters ever to play. He’s not as good a hitter as Pujols, but that is in no way damning him.
Arod is a top 5 position player in MLB. The guy is fighting a major injury. He is an absolute star of a baseball player. I agree that Pujols is the best player in the game right now but to say expectations of Arod are disapointing are frankly absurd IMO.
-dennis
“A-Rod is a great player.
Albert Pujols is better.”
Never ever…ever and I love Pujols but not even people D.R. would say he’s better than a healthy A-Rod. NEVER.
Sab
The reason SF is good is because of pitching.Good pitching stops good hitters.Lincecum and Sanchez are lights out.The Cards have Carpenter.
I think Pujols may be the better hitter but not sure he is the better overall player.
Brandon: Maybe it’s because I don’t follow the NL as closely, but I’ve never seen Pujols–bad elbow and all–slump like A-Rod slumps, when he slumps.
Sanchez wasn’t in the same sentence w/ Lincecum before the no hitter. He was Oli Perez like, might be a smart steal for anyone desperate for SP.
I am not saying that A-rod sucks but he is not a good fit for the yankees. Even Tino Martinez said it. I wish the organization would have never signed him to that crazy contract because he isn’t a fighter or a winner. He doesn’t want to win a championship, he just wants to collect a pay check to spend on call girls, kate hudson, and steriods.
“However it’s kind of silly to say “Boy I really expected A-rod to be the kind of hitter that Pujols is.” A-rod is freaking amazing. Career 147 OPS+ and he DOES average 40+ homers a year. You can’t expect any player, no matter how good he is to be that good. A-rod has met or exceeded all expectations and to say anything different is just goofy”
You’re the one being silly now because you’re implying my remarks are meant to be disparaging towards Arod when they’re not. Arod is a great HOF player and one of the best to ever play the game. However, with that said, I thought he would hit for a higher average than he has in his career. There is nothing silly or goofy about that opinion just because you don’t agree with it.
Rebecca: this is Alex not even healthy, and believe it or not Pujols slumps too, it’s just he’s in STL but he does slump, like when Teix was in ATL and Texas slumping, if Pujols were in NY his slumps would be magnified 100 times more.
Balboa > Creed > Lang > Drago
“Even Tino Martinez said it.”
What did Tino say?
Like I said, you put Pujols in the AL East he would put up great numbers, but nothing like now. He doesn’t have to face A Beckett/Lester/CC/Halladay/Garza with the list going on and on. It doesn’t matter considering they are both juiced up though.
“Haha A-rod actually usually has the best game plan of any hitter when he’s at the plate. That’s the core of his game. He studies the pitchers and is a total guess hitter. He isn’t a “see the ball hit the ball” kind of guy at all.”
IMO, Arod being a total guess hitter has hurt him average-wise in his career.
Rebecca–Optimist Prime–Montero Fanaticus Primus
July 13th, 2009 at 9:52 pm
Pat M: How many HR and RBI did A-Rod have at the break in 07?
Pujols has 32 and 87
————————————————————
30 and 86 at 85 games.
GB: Damn, near identical!
“Like I said, you put Pujols in the AL East he would put up great numbers, but nothing like now. He doesn’t have to face A Beckett/Lester/CC/Halladay/Garza with the list going on and on. It doesn’t matter considering they are both juiced up though.”
Maybe or maybe not because the ballparks in the AL East might be to his liking and make him more dangerous especially considering how little protection he has in the Cards lineup. Can you imagine what Pujols can do hitting in the Rays, Sox or Yanks lineup?
Arod had 30 HR and 86 RBI’s at the break in 2007. And that’s playing at Yankee Stadium, not the best place for a RH.
ed_price Since the #hrderby started, Roy Halladay has been traded, become a free agent and signed with the Yankees.
LOL
Just look at the consistency and how his stikeout numbers are so low.
http://www.baseball-reference......al01.shtml
Hey all
I may have an extra ticket for sat 18 vs Detroit …
I’ll know for sure tomorrow if friend backed out of group..
Any interest..
this homerun derby is borderline pathetic….pujols has been a majjooorrr disappointment
Jeez Rebecca. You are still pounding the strike zone. I am glad they do not test for Red Bull at Fordham!
Hope you are having a good summer.
-dennis
The man is consistent.
http://www.baseball-reference......al01.shtml
Patrick if A-rod has such a great game plan then why does he strikeout so much ? I recall during the 2007 alds elimination game where paul byrd threw two 85 mph fastballs down the middle and he missed them and then struck out on a breaking ball. He has done this time and time again, so how is A-rod’s game plan good?
“All I know is that in 2007, Alex had the best season I think I’ve ever seen”
Tremendous season. He set career high’s in OBP with with .422 and Slg at .645. To give you a clue how good Pujols is, his CAREER OBP and Slugging are .427 and .630. In other words, Arod’s greatest year was marginally better than Pujols career average.
I think when we remember this era, we will remember it like this
Pujols = Best Home run hitter
Arod = Best all around player
Mauer = Best pure hitter
A little early but Tim Lincecum and Cole Hamels will challenge for the best pitcher of this era
“The reason SF is good is because of pitching.Good pitching stops good hitters.Lincecum and Sanchez are lights out.The Cards have Carpenter”
sanchez? lights-out?…one game doesnt make you lights-out…not. even. close
JZ
Because of idiot Yankee fans putting the weight of the world on his shoulders.
Albert is a great talent and is having a career season…However he has a long way to go to match A-Rod…..Pitching is pitching, however the AL is tougher 1-5 in the rotations…..Time will be the ultimate judge….
““Even Tino Martinez said it.”
What did Tino say?”
He never said that, the poster is full of it.
Dennis:
Alas, my baseball knowledge is not much help when it comes to medieval Nottingham or enlightenment France!
Rebecca–Optimist Prime–Montero Fanaticus Primus
July 13th, 2009 at 10:02 pm
GB: Damn, near identical!
————————————————————
A 16 point lower average for Rodriguez. Everything was even across the board, except strikeouts and walks. OPS and SLG was a little lower, also.
JZ
What did Tino say?
“A little early but Tim Lincecum and Cole Hamels will challenge for the best pitcher of this era”
i agree with lincecum but when i think of best pitchers of this era i dont even think of hamels…
Arod was once a 40 40 guy. Don’t think Pujols will ever do that. Speed is one of the 5 tools that Albert doesn’t possess. I don’t know what his arm is because he’s a 1B. but Alex has a cannon.
Pujols is great but I think Arod overall is slightly better.
haiku-man
July 13th, 2009 at 9:55 pm
Sab
The reason SF is good is because of pitching.Good pitching stops good hitters.Lincecum and Sanchez are lights out.The Cards have Carpenter.
=========
haiku man – that was my point – re:montero included in a deal for halladay –
pitching wins games not hitting – halladay is a pitcher – one of the top 3 in the game – montero even if he does become as good as pujols or arod (not likely) won’t win a damn thing if the yankees don’t have picthing…i’ll gladly trade montero for halladay if it means the yankees will have a better chance to win the WS the next 5 years…
if halladay doesn’t guarantee that the yankees win a WS montero will be even less of a guarantee…this isn’t trading jay buhner for ken phelps – this is trading jay buhner for nolan ryan (or equivalent)
Ralphie .. Hamels is amazing as well. He’s got plenty of time to get even better.
“A little early but Tim Lincecum and Cole Hamels will challenge for the best pitcher of this era”
Lincecum is in a class by himself.
“Alas” may be the most under used word on Lohud IMO.
-dennis
dennis:
If I spoke like a grad student more often my posts would be incomprehensible. Even more than they are already.
pat
Tino Martinez made comments on baseball tonight after the yankees lost in the 2006 alds where A-rod batted 118 and he said that maybe A-rod and the yankees should move on because it doesn’t appear to be working. Basically saying that he doesn’t fit with the team and the mentality of determination and winning. A number of players have struggled in their first year or second year in New York but they usually fit in after. Arod has had plenty of time and has shown no progress at all. That’s why I did not support that contract extension.
“Never ever…ever and I love Pujols but not even people D.R. would say he’s better than a healthy A-Rod. NEVER. ”
Well I don’t care what the people in the DR say. Pujols is a much better player than A-rod. It’s not really even close anymore.
“Ralphie .. Hamels is amazing as well. He’s got plenty of time to get even better.”
you can say that about any young pitcher…hamels has never stood out to me…hes a really good pitcher but i cant see him define an era of pitching
Rebecca.
Bring it on. I was an MBA student 12 years ago and I never hear “Alas” on campus which is why I like it. If everyone was the same this world would be pretty boring!
-dennis
JZ-
you know the yanks didn’t sign Kevin Brown and Weaver to contracts, right? Trades.
When did you start watching the yankees? I will assume it was after 2002?
It’s a fun debate, but it hardly matters whether Pujols or A-Rod are greater. They are two different kinds of players and both are terrific and supremely talented, I’ll leave it at that.
It’s just like wondering whether Michael Jordan is the greatest basketball player of all time or wondering if Roger Federer is the greatest tennis player of all time, makes fun debate, but it doesn’t really matter.
And Pujols is out of the derby unless Cruz and Fielder both put up goose eggs in the semis. Probably won’t happen.
Sab agreed that’s why I don’t get hyped about the use of great.Baseball is and always will be a game of pitching.
Brandon… I’M AWESOME
I’m not full of it. Tino back in 2006 after the alds elimination said on baseball tonight that maybe he isn’t a good fit for the yankees. He was the only one to have the courage to speak the truth. Tino dealt with adversity during his first and second year as a yankee but eventually adapted, and the fans were on his case but he came through for this organization like Jeter, O’neill, Bernie, Cone and many other yankees and they had a desire to win which a-rod doesn’t have.
IrishCarBomb July 13th, 2009 at 10:21 pm
JZ-
you know the yanks didn’t sign Kevin Brown and Weaver to contracts, right? Trades.
When did you start watching the yankees? I will assume it was after 2002?
Cardinal fan I guess
“you can say that about any young pitcher…hamels has never stood out to me…hes a really good pitcher but i cant see him define an era of pitching”
Hamels has struggled some this year. I’d be more inclined to identify someone like Felix Hernandez to lump in with Lincecum.
Newsflash! A-Rod does no have the desire to win! JZ said it so it must be true!
IrishCarBomb
No I watched the yankees before 2002, and the point I was making which was a mistake when I was typing is that the yankees have made moves for pitchers out of their prime like a weaver or kevin brown but everyone says no to Halladay the best pitcher in the game who is in his prime. I know kevin and jeff were traded for but I lumped in all of the busts for the yankees together.
JZ
Surprised Tino would say that about any player let alone one he had played with for 2-3 years.
Wonder if Tino thought it wasn’t working out for himself when he hit less than .118 in 5 postseason series?
JZ = Full of it.
Dennis:
Well, it is a certitude that some posters are capable of articulating cogen and coherent arguments.
Ostensibly, these posters all know how to back up their arguments with the appropriate use of sources and analysis of data. It is, however, possible that some posters are the antithesis of articulate and it can only be surmised that they are posting while inebriated.
Sorry but Cole Hamels just doesn’t say Hall Of Fame to be…..Lincecum is off to a outstanding start in what could be a tremendous career…But hey, he’s only been in the league a few years…..
Carl
Prove to me that A-rod has determination and wants to win for himself and the yankees. Because he hasn’t and until then I rest my case. If the yankees win a chapionship with him on the team it will only be because of the pitching and the hitters around him.
And I’m no Cardinals fan.
Rebecca–Optimist Prime–Montero Fanaticus Primus
July 13th, 2009 at 10:28 pm
Dennis:
Well, it is a certitude that some posters are capable of articulating cogen and coherent arguments.
Ostensibly, these posters all know how to back up their arguments with the appropriate use of sources and analysis of data. It is, however, possible that some posters are the antithesis of articulate and it can only be surmised that they are posting while inebriated
****
Okay, Rebecca quit showing off. I already gave you the Best Use of Statistics award today.
Now I am awarding you the best use of Really Big Words.
By far the best post today by anyone.
Erica: I’m glad, that was hard work!
503 feet wow Prince
“It is, however, possible that some posters are the antithesis of articulate and it can only be surmised that they are posting while inebriated.”
Repost from previous thread:
Trisha’s commenting cycle:
make uninformed comment
argue with people who disagree with uninformed comment
screw cap back on the wine bottle and take a nap
awaken and explain feelings about arguments with people who disagree with uninformed comments, including recurring acknowledgment that arguments about uninformed comments annoy other posters, couched in terms of intellectual independence
the only winner here is Pete, who initially tried to run Trisha off but stopped when he realized that her arguments with people who disagree with her uninformed comments were padding his stats
The ARod has no desire to win argument is by far the stupidest meme ever propogated here on LoHud (and that says a LOT). I think worse of Tino if in fact he said anything close to what JZ is claiming.
If he did say anything like that, he was just echoing the theme in the media (and Torre’s theme in his book, which he could have been sharing off-the-record back then) that the failures post-04 were the fault of the new guys like ARod, not the pitching or Torre. Torre clearly tried to scapegoat ARod at the time, first batting him 6th in the first game, making ARod answer all the questions about his “demotion”, then putting him eighth.
“Prove to me that A-rod has determination and wants to win for himself and the yankees. Because he hasn’t and until then I rest my case. If the yankees win a chapionship with him on the team it will only be because of the pitching and the hitters around him. ”
Prior to game 5 he was hitting above .400 in the series and would have been named the MVP it’s not his fault Joe Torre burned out the BP in the season, guys like Gordon were and Sturtze were out of gas, Mo blew a game, and Dave Roberts ran havoc on us. Keep talking b/c your proving yourself to be a bigger moron everytime.
Brandon… I’M AWESOME !
I’m not full of it and I don’t care if you don’t believe me but I recall back in 2006 him giving A-rod the benefit of the doubt and after the alds on baseball tonight he said maybe it isn’t working out between him and the yankees.
And Pat I was surprised he said it because I would never think Tino would say something like that. But he was right.
Rebecca-
You should consider changing your handle to:
Rebecca-Optimist Prime-Linguistic-Extraordinaire
Damn, Prince Fielder is smacking those out.
Erica: Only if Montero busts.
In which case I have bigger problems.
Lets just hope they are inebriated.
-dennis
I can’t take Pujols’ accomplishments seriously because he is doing it in the NL… he gets to face the pitcher in the 9 spot and plays against weaker competition than a guy like A-Rod who spent his entire career in the AL and did it against the best competition.
And its not hard to succede in STL where everyone loves you and you never face adversity. A-Rod did it in NYC and was getting killed by the media fans every day all season.
Prince Fielder just hit a ball 503 ft!
JZ July 13th, 2009 at 10:32 pm
Carl
Prove to me that A-rod has determination and wants to win for himself and the yankees. Because he hasn’t and until then I rest my case. If the yankees win a chapionship with him on the team it will only be because of the pitching and the hitters around him.
Youre telling me in 2004 he didn’t want to win for himself and the Yankees? If any team wins a ring its because of the pitching. What kind of argument is that?
“If the yankees win a chapionship with him on the team it will only be because of the pitching and the hitters around him.”
If you’re gonna be an A-Rod hater, be a smart one. This is the dumbest comment I have ever read on this blog.
“It is, however, possible that some posters are the antithesis of articulate and it can only be surmised that they are posting while inebriated.”
Rebecca…GB7 can’t help it that he has a liking for Coors Lite so don’t be picking on him.
Clare Tino never said that b/c if he did those words would still be brought up today. The closest person to rip Alex and was a past Yankees was Jim Leyritz other than that Flaherty and Justice when it came to the opt. out.
Rebecca-
Is there a limit to how long handles can be? Cause you can experiment with something like
Rebecca- Optimist Prime- Montero Fanaticus Primus- Linguist Supreme
Rebecca
You’re selling some people short blaming comments on inebriation.
I think they are capable of many of the same comments drunk or sober.
“If you’re gonna be an A-Rod hater, be a smart one. This is the dumbest comment I have ever read on this blog.”
QFT
Literally he’s (JZ) making it too easy to rip on him(JZ).
Prince Fielder and Nelson Cruz in the HR derby,no Pujols,he had the lowest amount of all.
Erica: Yeah I could, but I don’t like my name to be too long.
Pat: You have a point.
Clare
A-rod is not to blame for all of the yankees faults but he has been a contributing factor. I don’t no why some fans try to defend A-rod because I use to but then I realized the truth. Tino was speaking the truth, I guess a couple of more years of failure will lead to you getting off of the A-rod bandwagon. Torre was right in some ways. Hey Kobe Bryant may be a jerk but at least he is a winner and wants to win for his organization and fans.
Yes A-Rod is a contributing factor to Yankee lack of success but he’s always the only player whose performance is broken down when it comes to these post season failures.
In some of those series where he was blamed he didn’t even have the worst performance. Never see people pick apart those other players’ putrid performance.
In fact, some of the players should be happy. If not for the focus on Alex people may be forced to spread the criticism. And we wouldn’t want that!
Brandon… I’M AWESOME !
Tino said it but you can keep believing in him until his contract is done.
ray (sox fan)
July 13th, 2009 at 10:39 pm
“It is, however, possible that some posters are the antithesis of articulate and it can only be surmised that they are posting while inebriated.”
Rebecca…GB7 can’t help it that he has a liking for Coors Lite so don’t be picking on him.
————————————————————
I don’t know why you’re always pickin’ on me. If it’s not my spelling, it’s my typing. The day you pick on “Killer” is the day I track you and your guard poodle down. It’s coming, Red Sox Fan.
Evening Ray. Hope you and the (sox fan) family are all doing well.
“Tino said it but you can keep believing in him until his contract is done.”
JFC your gonna continue to lie like no one here was viewing ESPN or hearing ESPN radio. Dude stop embarrassing yourself and literally I’m too awesome to continue responding to your delusional(BS) memory recollection.
Randy, the Twins just got swept by the Yankees, 7-0 in the season series…….last I checked, the Angels had a worse record than the Yankees.
I guess the Yanks were better of with Soriano…..2 mvp’s just doesn’t buy you much respect anymore….
Yeah, Keith Law is absolutely intransigient on Phil Hughes. He just won’t budge off his prediction of mediocrity – I’m sorry, but his last chat is proof to me that if you x-rayed his head, you’d find nothing there.
Brandon… I’M AWESOME ! July 13th, 2009 at 10:53 pm
“Tino said it but you can keep believing in him until his contract is done.”
JFC your gonna continue to lie like no one here was viewing ESPN or hearing ESPN radio. Dude stop embarrassing yourself and literally I’m too awesome to continue responding to your delusional(BS) memory recollection.
lol
Good afternoon (evening) everyone.
Still going with the age thing? 23 is plenty old enough to appreciate your circumstances.
Especially if you finished high school, attended college, and are pitching professionally in the most professional clubhouse in the majors.
Ricciardi sounds like he wants to hold on to Halladay. Doc sounds kind of excited about a change of scenery.
Just heard some of the HR Derby on the radio and they mentioned the starters for tom. Didn’t realize that Doc’s ERA was in the 2’s.
HR Derby has gone on so long that teh Jesus Monstero has reached AAA, the Majors, been an All Star, and MVP and now retired to Hawaii
Prince fielder
I just skip the posts where I see Alex and choke/doesn’t fit/etc………no sense wasting my time with nonsensical posts like that.
Prince Fielder won the Hr derby!
“I can’t take Pujols’ accomplishments seriously because he is doing it in the NL… he gets to face the pitcher in the 9 spot ”
Huh? Pujol’s is pitching now?
I did not know this.
He truly is amazing.
Feinsand Twitter
“I cover the AL, so you’ll have to excuse me … but I thought Pujols was supposed to be good.”
Fielder wins it and Nelson was able to cruise through the first two rounds, but the finals were a different story.
The Home Run Derby lasted so long that the Cardinals built another new ballpark to host the rest of it.
Hey M……..
I think Doc really loves it in Toronto, but I wonder if he isn’t traded, would he sign an extension or hit FA? My guess is FA – he’s running out of time to play on a real contender. He seems like such a good guy – AJ sounds like he’s in awe of him, lol
@ Betsy- why, bc he does not think a player on your favorite team projects to be the next john smoltz? Sadly to this point, Hughes has not been an #1 starter (you don’t get to say ‘take away x start and his era is y- bc then anyone can be good, but he’s excelled in the pen. I hope he turns a corner, but he actually has to turn it.
Now let’s hope all of the NL batters messed up their swing for the game,especially Pujols!! Hehehe
http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/.....ses-trade/
Um, Jack Curry, I actually like Jeter’s hands off approach…..and his loyalty to his teammates. I guess that makes me a hypocrite for hoping AJ is talking to Doc, lol
I would trade Joba for a pack of gum and a bucket of balls right about now.
Doc is pitching lights out right now. despite the game against the yankees and the rays he has been brilliant.
Eric, I think it’s ridiculous that Law projected Phil and continues to do so as a #3 or #4 at best. Did I say Phil has pitched like an ace so far as a starter? No, and I nevr expected him to. My point is that Law is intransigent – the flaws he sees/saw in Phil, he ignores in Bucholz. I don’t let this stuff bother me anymore, but I thought his comment in his recent chat was moronic. Another poster brought up Law as some god of scouting……no thanks.
Prince Fielder: Doing vegetarians proud!
I would be willing to trade joba because we have phil hughes and plenty of prospects in the farm.
So far, Hughes has had 2 REALLY GOOD starts in the majors. Will he be great? it’s possible.
He has 2 pitches, and to me that seems like it would be more of a bullpen type pitcher.
As a starter Hughes has been far from impressive.
Regarding Halliday I would not trade Joba or Hughes, but I would give up ANY minor league player. There are no guarantees on minor league prospects. These minor leaguers “may” or may not make it. Halliday is certainly proven
http://www.nj.com/yankees/inde.....ort_c.html
AJ might have been traded in the last 24 hours, because he’s not on the list for some reason…..
Jorge a C? No way…………
Fielder is a monster
Betsy: Mariano Rivera doesn’t make the cut either!
However, I guess since Rivera’s so awesome anyway, he doesn’t need a grade.
Doc quote:
“I’d rather hit,” Halladay says, “than have to face Derek Jeter and A-Rod (Alex Rodriguez), (Hideki) Matsui and (Mark) Teixeira and all of the other guys.”
I find it interesting he mentions only Yankee players.. he wants to go there .. that’s what you call ‘reading between the lines’
If you are on their team, you don’t have to face them
LOL I missed that…….maybe they got F’s….. Overall, I thought the comments were fair. Marc Carig does a good job……
Why did Halladay even mention Matsui? He hasn’t been a feared hitter since 2005…
I think Doc would be fine going to any team that’s a winner – all the teams going after him are contenders; I just don’t see that he has a preference. I think he mentioned the Yankee players because he was specifically asked about the Yankees……
O_O;;
Nelly can play
Betsy,
Doc says he likes it there. But he wants to win, too.
I think they’ve already talked and both sides are ready to move on. The two sides make no bones about it. It’s almost as if it’s a done deal.
From Doc’s POV, an extension now would maximize his value I think. He’ll be 34 at the end of the current contract.
His comment that he’d rather hit than face Jeter, Alex, Hideki, and Tex was pretty hilarious. Red Herring perhaps? Otherwise, that was a pretty blatant overture.
Halladay seems like such a great guy, loyal to his organization, classy.
Which is why it’s pretty funny that people suggest he should go to JP and demand he only get traded to the Yankees. He would never be a jerk like that to the organization he has been with for over a decade… He’ll go to any contender (legit contender like Philly, Boston, the LA teams, Yanks) that trades for him.
IrishCarBomb
I know Phil has been good for a few games as a starter but I see a lot of potential. He reminds me of Mike Mussina in terms of pitching style and makeup.
# Rebecca–Optimist Prime–Montero Fanaticus Primus July 13th, 2009 at 11:19 pm
O_O;;
Nelly can play
He was a shortstop in high school
Taco Bell is sponsoring the legends and celebrity game.
Goose is pitching and Ozzie Smith is playing too. 6-2 AMERICAN LEAGUE,so far.
HOLY CRAP NELLY
The Angels record is pretty irrelevant.
They lost their top 3 starters to start the year and their top 2 reserves (Adenhart was tragically killed, Mosely went on the DL).
They lost their best relief pitcher (Shields) and Vlad hasn’t been healthy the whole year.
Where would we be if we lost CC-AJ-Wang and Hughes/Aceves for almost 2 months?
Hughes only has 2 pitches. Mussina had a wide array, and when he was younger…he was one of the best pitchers in the game. I really don’t see the similarities.
Hughes is so young, can’t write him off. But the trio of Hughes/Joba/Kennedy have been VERY OVER HYPED as starting pitchers. None of them have really been all that impressive on a consistent basis. But the best part of those 3, they are SO YOUNG. Kennedy though, I don’t think he will ever be anything more than a 4, 5 starter.
Wow Nelly hit a homerun and made a great catch. Maybe he should have become a baseball player then a rapper. LOL
A Rapper named Nelly(It’s gettin hot in here) hit a bomb off Goose AL leads 7-2,Seeing Goose again in uniform, is awesome.
“Wow Nelly hit a homerun and made a great catch. Maybe he should have become a baseball player then a rapper. LOL”
Apparently he nearly did…
I just listened to an interview with Jesus Montero and he really impressed me. He speaks very good english and already is better than Cano in that regard especially considering he’s only 19 and been playing here a little over two years.
“Where would we be if we lost CC-AJ-Wang and Hughes/Aceves for almost 2 months?”
Exactly. We’d have a rotation of
Pettitte
Chamberlain
Igawa
Josh Towers/Mitre?
Tomko?
I’d love to see how many games we win with that rotation. Nobody should be ripping the Angels— they fought through more than any other team this year. The fact that they are only a couple of games behind us shows how much perseverance they have. They are only going to get better as the season goes on.
Betsy,
Here’s Roy’s video from today. He looks uncomfortable, but the message is clear. He wants to pitch in October.
frohttp://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4324204
Cash, do you have any idea what’s up with NYYFans? The board has been down all day and I’m not signing up with Facebook just to find out the status…….it’s aggravating, lol.
Banks, the Yankees have basically been without Wang for a good chunk of the season, Alex missed a month, Jorge missed a month…..they’ve had their own issues.
IrishCarBomb
Phil has a curve ball and knuckle curve ball, two seam -four seam fastball, developing changeup, and developing cutter. He has the potential and if he continues to work with his pitches he can be a similar pitcher to mussina.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=4324204
M
Roy Halladay is just a shy person. That’s how he is.
Um, who’s ripping the Angels? This debate is fruitless…
Betsy,
No idea what’s up there, but as long as they’ve been down, it looks like they’re trying to restore their database. Maybe, they were hacked or loss their servers.
I think Doc has been put into a tough situation – this is the first time in his career he’s been treated like a piece of meat, to be sold to the highest bidder.
Cash, thanks. I thought maybe it was just my computer acting up, lol
WTH ! They are going to have Shawn Johnson klill herself on the base paths.
“Banks, the Yankees have basically been without Wang for a good chunk of the season, Alex missed a month, Jorge missed a month…..they’ve had their own issues.”
Wow
You seriously cannot even argue that the Yankees had more injuries than the Angels. It’s not even remotely true.
“Pettitte
Chamberlain
Igawa
Josh Towers/Mitre?
Tomko?”
Betsy – How many games you think we would win with that rotation? Because if you didn’t notice… that’s what the Angels were trotting out there for almost 2 months.
Does Phil ever use his knuckle curve?
I have only really seen him throw his crazy curve and variations of a fastball.
Thanks for the info!
I hope Halladay gets traded to the NL. I have a sneaking suspicion he won’t get traded this season. I don’t have any facts to back this claim up, just a hunch.
Yanks lost A-Rod for 1 month, Angels lost Vlad for a month.
Angels also lost their top 3 starters, their setup man, and their #3-4 starters to start the year.
Our injuries don’t even come close to theirs.
Two thoughts on Halladay coming to the NYYs:
1. If the trade requires one each of Hughes or Chamberlain going to Toronto, then the one who stays with NY will benefit tremendously from having Doc as a mentor. So there will be a significant upside there.
2. Doc is realistic about his financial prospects regarding a trade and re-negotiation now with the NYYs vs a trade now to a team that will not give him anywhere what he would want 18 months from now. The Yankees give him the whole package up front.
The Angels situation regarding injury and tragedy was worse than what happened to the Yankees earlier this season. Also, their new closer had some difficulty adjusting at first and they lost some games late.
Yanks, Sox, and Rays had mild injuries
Angels were hit very hard
If the yankees don’t win it all this year then we have an opportunity to make some significant changes in the outfield, but the rotation needs to be sorted out, and if we get halladay then the yankees will have the best three man rotation in baseball.
“The Angels situation regarding injury and tragedy was worse than what happened to the Yankees earlier this season. Also, their new closer had some difficulty adjusting at first and they lost some games late.”
Agree.
Halladay knows that the Yankees will take good card of him, if he comes to the Yankees and performs to the level that he’s accustom to.
I meant care not card.
Sorry I meant changes in the offseason. Changes in the rotation and outfield. This team is very close to going on another run.
I just don’t see how Halladay has any particular preference for NY – he made a joke about the Stadium, but he didn’t seem to pleased about it.
Cash is King July 13th, 2009 at 11:49 pm
Halladay knows that the Yankees will take good card of him, if he comes to the Yankees and performs to the level that he’s accustom to.
Cash will rub his feet
Halladay surrendered three home runs in his July 4 start in the Bronx, his first start at the new Yankee Stadium, and he laughed Monday when a reporter asked him about making the ballpark his new home.
“It wasn’t a lot of fun the one time we went there,” Halladay said. “It’s baseball everywhere. Both sides are playing the same field.”
IrishCarBomb
Your Welcome. I first heard about Hughes learning and using a knucklecurve back in 2006. And I did hear at the time that Mike Mussina was teaching him the pitch and helping him with even before he got called up to the majors.
“Cash will rub his feet”
LOL
So I’ve been trying to figure out why all this Halladay trade talk has been bothering me so much. I wasn’t able to put my finger on it until today, and it makes total sense.
At what point does it become less enjoyable to root for your team? What I mean is, the Yankees already have almost double the payroll of any other team. Signed the 3 biggest free agents over the winter. The year before, they spend 400 million+ to re-sign Mo, A Rod, and Posada.
At some point, having all these superstar hired guns takes something away from the game for me. Do we need 3 starting pitchers making 16+ million? Most teams don’t have any pitchers making that much, we need 3? And does acquiring Halladay assure the team of anything really, other than a spot in the postseason?
When you’re expected to win because you grossly overspend all competition and load your team with all stars, can you really complain that the news outlets portray the team like they do?
Those late 90s teams won for many reasons, all of which have been discussed here. But it was the role players with the intangibles that made the difference.
I’m not even talking about O’Neill, Tino, Bernie, or those guys.
I’m talking about Chili Davis, Charlie Hayes, Wade Boggs, Luis Sojo, Tim Raines. Those guys brought toughness and intangibles to the team.
But I’m getting away from my main point. I guess in summary I’d rather root for Jesus Montero, Phil Hughes, Austin Jackson, etc. rather than dealing our top prospects for Halladay and hoping and praying they go far in the playoffs. Because if they don’t, the rest of the league just sits back and laughs. And not only do we lose, we also give up top cost controlled talent. We are one year older, have one more superstar, and are even farther away from the goal of a World Championship.
Would the trade talk be so rampant if we didn’t just get swept by the Angels? If Pettitte and Joba hadn’t looked bad their last few starts?
I want to win just as much as the next fan, but I feel no shame in stating I do not want them to trade for Halladay. As good as he is, I don’t think he’s needed. Give Mitre a few starts before you slam him and call him useless. Let Wang start throwing before you claim his season lost. I’m as frustrated as the next guy with Joba, but he’s got the tools. Let’s see what he’s got in the 2nd half. Andy too.
They have the 3rd best record in baseball. No need to blow up the farm because some morons are panicking about the Yankees record against the Sox and Angels. Come October that means nothing.
If the Phillies win the division going away and Pedro fits the bill, how likely are they to pursue Halladay?
The Angels will likely extend Lackey if he pitches well down the stretch, how likely are they to pursue Halladay?
The Yankees don’t need Halladay, they’ve got CC & AJ.
The Red Sox, according to Tweeter Dum can’t even fit the killer b’s into their rotation, that’s how tight it is.
Tough to say, teams weren’t exactly lining up for Johan Santana at the deadline, either.
Doc is a pipe dream
Let’s talk about someone more realistic like Washburn
David July 14th, 2009 at 12:01 am
Doc is a pipe dream
Let’s talk about someone more realistic like Washburn
Washburn is staying put. Halladay is getting traded.
Halladay did have some difficulty with the long ball in his start at the new stadium, but he’s smart enough to adjust. He is a ground ball pitcher by trade with the terrific sinker that he has, so it wouldn’t effect him as much.
The difficulty that he had against the Yankees could also be traced to the fact that it was only his second start back from the DL and he had yet to find his rhythm. He is undoubtedly successful enough and crafty enough to make an adjustment to a hitter’s park, IF he gets traded to the Yankees.
“But I’m getting away from my main point. I guess in summary I’d rather root for Jesus Montero, Phil Hughes, Austin Jackson, etc. rather than dealing our top prospects for Halladay and hoping and praying they go far in the playoffs. Because if they don’t, the rest of the league just sits back and laughs. And not only do we lose, we also give up top cost controlled talent. We are one year older, have one more superstar, and are even farther away from the goal of a World Championship.”
This. So much.
This.
This is everything.
miggs,
Don’t worry… we’re not getting Halladay. Just some conversation to pass time during a slow news week.
Joba is Cash’s crown jewel… he isin’t getting traded.
Halladay on the Yankees would be very pleasant and extremely gratifying…
I still would rather watch my two favorites pitch, but Halladay pitching would be up there.
Ashanti w/ the worst baserunning I’ve ever seen in my life.
Betsy
I don’t believe that Halladay’s decision will depend just on the stadium. He wants to win a title and pitch in october and the yankees can provide that for him.
Not even Nick Swisher or Timo Perez looked as bad as that.
Right now, the Yankees have 2 reliable pitchers – that’s not enough, not even close. They don’t necessarily need Halladay, but he’d be a big help. Even if Mitre works out, he’s going to be the 5th starter. Andy is not going to get any better – he is what he is. Joba? He may get better, he may not – is this the rotation we want to go to war with? Wang will not be back for awhile and how do we know how good he’s going to be?
The Yankees need pitching help……..
Doubt Seattle trades Washburn.
Those begging for Cash to get 1 or 2 new arms at the trade deadline will likely be very disappointed.
There just isin’t a lot out there. Just because a team has a losing record, doesn’t mean they are going to get rid of their pitching.
Brandon… I’M AWESOME !
I like how she was happy to be on 2nd lol
I really don’t care what the rest of baseball thinks about the Yankees – I want to win. Believe me, I do not want to give up our farm system. There is a limit to what I’d give up for Halladay – if the Jays ask for too much, then we move on (with no regrets).
Guys like Doug Davis and Arroyo are no locks to outperform Pettitte in the AL East.
From Cash’s standpoint… why make a move just for the sake of making a move? We’re looking to improve our pitching, not bring in another Pettitte, a hit or miss pitcher, in the rotation.
Carl, I was cracking up there. Goose hits a can of corn to CF and she’s giggly joggin to 2nd, jumps on it in a LOOK AT ME ! YAY ! and Goli’s face was WTH get back to 1st ! game ending DP
My new goal in life is to be famous enough to play in the celebrities and legends game.
Why not bring Mussina out of retirement?
He could probably pitch better than Joba, Andy, or Mitre….
The people who are against getting Halladay and believe in Joba, Here is a question: Do you trust Joba and Andy in game 3 or game 4 in the postseason? I say no. It will be another quick alds exit. The yankees don’t have enough pitching to go deep in the postseason, so if they don’t get halladay and fail with a 200 million dollar payroll then the other teams laugh at the yankees but if they get halladay and go deep but still fail they will laugh anyways, so who cares what the other teams and their fans think. I just know that if cashman does not get a good pitcher this team will lose in the alds and we will have to look forward to next year.
what channel?
“Do you trust Joba and Andy in game 3 or game 4 in the postseason? I say no. It will be another quick alds exit”
Yeah, well, when Joba puts it all together and goes on and has a lengthy, Cy Young career in Toronto, while Halladay opts for free agency in 2010, get back to us.
Betsy
Is right. Who cares what the other teams think. This team is built to go deep in the postseason and only need a good starter to get them over that line. Halladay can be our josh beckett and dominate in the postseason. If the Red Sox in 2007 didn’t have Beckett they wouldn’t have won the world series that year. A pitcher like Halladay can dominate the teams we need to beat, and this offense is good enough for him to win games for us.
“The people who are against getting Halladay and believe in Joba, Here is a question: Do you trust Joba and Andy in game 3 or game 4 in the postseason? I say no. It will be another quick alds exit. The yankees don’t have enough pitching to go deep in the postseason, so if they don’t get halladay and fail with a 200 million dollar payroll then the other teams laugh at the yankees but if they get halladay and go deep but still fail they will laugh anyways, so who cares what the other teams and their fans think. I just know that if cashman does not get a good pitcher this team will lose in the alds and we will have to look forward to next year.”
But you’re missing my main point. Suppose you make the trade and lose in the postseason like you said. Your roster is now one year older, contains one more superstar with an enormous contract (maybe even 2 guys if they include Wells), AND you’re minus a top young starter (Hughes or Joba), your top outfield prospect (Jackson), and probably 2 other guys. And that’s if they DON’T include Montero.
No thanks, I’ll pass. That’s what you’re all missing. They have top end rotation guys. They need someone for the back end. Maybe Brian Bannister. Someone like that.
Philly won the WS last year with Cole Hamels and crap. Literally not one other good starter.
You Yankee fans are really really spolied and unrealistic. Its sad.
We have back of the rotation guys. Their names are Pettitte, Joba, Hughes, Aceves, and Mitre.
You want to fill your bullpen? Bring up your hot Novas or whomever else to give you quality innings out of the bullpen.
Do you think it would be more fun to have a skills competition to get more players involved than just the HR Derby at the ASG?
I think it was the participants but I was bored watching it tonight.
“Do you trust Joba and Andy in game 3 or game 4 in the postseason? I say no. It will be another quick alds exit”
Yes I do Andy has always been a big game pitcher and Joba as the ability to shut down a lineup any given night he pitches. Look at the backend of the red sox rotation. Brad Penny, Wakefield and a 42 year old Smoltz. Nothing special if you ask me.
An older pitcher doesn’t mean a thing. Its the older position players that is a problem. Getting Roy Halladay could be similar to the Red Sox getting Schilling. Or the Red Sox getting Beckett. I don’t know how you can pass this guy up.
Next year we will get younger with Damon/Matsui/Nady/Pettitte/Molina all going bye bye.
Rebecca–Optimist Prime–Montero Fanaticus Primus
There is no way of knowing that Chamberlain will have a cy young type career. Not all prospects work out to be what they should be. And with Joba’s diminished velocity and stuff how do we know if he will be as good as he was last year. And Halladay can be signed so that is not a big deal, if you past on a chance like this you might not see this team win some championships for years until chamberlain, Hughes develops if they ever do.
Guys do remember there’s like 76 games remaining…We’re 6 weeks away from September’s home stretch, and the schedule for September is very tough……Yankee Stadium cannot be dark again this October…Something will be happening to shore up this club for October baseball…….Count on it…..Every playoff game missed in the Bronx will caost the Yanks about 3 million is lost coin…..
miggs
July 14th, 2009 at 12:24 am
Philly won the WS last year with Cole Hamels and crap. Literally not one other good starter.
You Yankee fans are really really spolied and unrealistic. Its sad.
———————————————-
Exactly and Jaime Moyer was terrible in the divisional series and the NLCS. Hamels was great and the phillies had a very good bullpen. The phillies wished they had a backend rotation of Pettitte and Chamberlain.
Trumpetman:
Miggs put it well, y’should read his (her?) posts tonight. S/he’s got it down pat.
(My apologies, Miggs, I’m awful with gender if it’s not obvious from the name!)
Miggs, I do agree in part with what you’re saying……I don’t believe any player/pitcher is ever a lock or a guarantee to lead a team to anything. The Yankees don’t NEED Halladay – I won’t pretend I don’t want him, but I also am not willing to give up the farm.
CC, AJ……they need two starters, IMO. Hoping Joba turns it around this year and quickly is playing a dangerous game and Andy – sorry, he’s just bad this year. Brian Bannister might be ok as a #5, but he wouldn’t be the #5 here……and that’s the problem. YOu really have faith in this guy to get it done in the AL East?
Everyone is already counting out Wang too. Don’t be surprised if he’s back by early August. He could be extremely effective down the stretch and there’s your answer for a 3rd playoff starter right there.
miggs
The Phillies won with Cole Hamels and crap because the National league is a joke. And the only reason why they beat the Rays was because they were a young and inexperienced club who reacheed the world series for the first time just like the Tigers in 2006. If the Red Sox beat the Rays in the alcs the Red Sox would have beat the Phillies. The Yankees need more pitching if they are going to get to the world series because the teams they will face will be stacked with pitching. And I’m mainly talking about Boston.
Rebecca I’m a “he”.
Just to clarify
Philly caught lucky breaks
They played a bad Brewers team in the 1st round
They played a Dodgers team with mediocre pitching and shakey bullpen
And they got to face a Rays team that was young and inexperienced. If they played Boston in the WS, I doubt they win.
Our road through October is going to be MUCH tougher than that. Philly could get away with their deficiencies, we can’t.
Trumpetman: The NL may be bad, but it’s not THAT bad.
Don’t dismiss the Phillies as WS champions. They put together a good team.
there in lies the problem
We have no idea how any acquisition this trade deadline will do in the AL East. Would I trust Washburn or Bannister (I know he pitched 1 good game in Fenway) to pitch a good game against Tampa, Boston, or even Baltimore?
Washburn is basically Pettitte at this point. A lefty with fringe stuff and guiel. I wouldn’t touch someone like Doug Davis.
You know guys like Lee, Halladay, Haren can pitch anywhere. The other guys are all crapshoots and most are safe bets to fail here. We need more than a #5 innings eater type. We have that with Pettitte. We need a GOOD pitcher. Maybe not a great one, but a good one.
Ok how about the Cards in ‘06? Who were their starters, can you even name them?
Didn’t the Sox have Wakefield in their playoff rotation when they won in ‘07?
Come on people. You can’t have all superstars. You’re all being completely shortsighted.
Do you understand what another huge contract does to the team’s flexibility going forward? You want to face Hughes or Joba 5 times every year for the next 15 years? Watch Austin Jackson rob 41 year old A Rod of a double in the gap?
CC, AJ, Wang, Joba, Pettitte. At the end of the year you pick the best 4 and go to war. I doubt many teams will have a better rotation. The Sox? Are Penny and Smoltz anchoring the back end of that playoff staff?
Wake up.
Carl is right. This could be like us getting Schilling in his prime. A guy who can lead this staff with confidence against Josh Beckett and Jon Lester. We would have the best staff thus giving us the advantage.
Wang is out…..He was barely coming around when he went down…Now he has to start everything all over again…..Move beyond the Wang factor, he’s done …..If Joba can turn it around and let’s say he becomes the pitcher he was in early June and progresses from there, then maybe The Yanks can make it through the September schedule crunch……A smoke and mirrors rotation is not going to make it….Or at the least ,it’s going to be a harrowing journey…
Joba is immature and uncoachable.
Phil is the exact opposite. He is mature, he has pitching aptitude, and he is a model citizen on and off the field.
I’m fighting a losing battle tonight it seems.
Well I guess that’s why they play the games. We’ll see how it goes.
If you look at all the teams who “got hot”, most of them are in the NL
03 Marlins
05 Astros
06 Cardinals
07 Rockies
08 Phillies
Where the road was much easier.
Tampa was the beat team in the AL in 08. Boston was the best in 07. Tigers were the best in 06 but collapsed at the end. They had a much better rotation than us. White Sox in 05 had the best record. 04 we all know what happened. 03 we were the best team…
Miggs: I’m with you…I have agreed with everything you’ve said in this thread!
Miggs, You’re mentioning teams that are already in the World Series…Getting thru the AL East is the challenge & then getting thru the aAL rounds will be more of a challenge than beating the NL reprsentative……Detroit was not the best team in the AL in 06…Once the Yanks were out of the way in was a cake walk, same goes for the White Sox in 05….The key is getting there…..
REbecca is right the Phillies are not a joke but there path was easy because they dealt with teams that had a weak offense and weak pitching. The yankees are in the American League where teams are stacked with top pitchers and dominate bullpens. It’s not about being spoiled it’s about being prudent. This is a sound decision that can help our young pitchers and provide confidence not only for the pitching staff but the team as a whole. Confidence that they can beat the elite teams. Halladay vs. Beckett can be a matchup.
And if you talk about the cardinals in 2006 Suppan and Weaver pitched there hearts out that year in the postseason for them. Right now I have no confidence in Joba or Andy (who is washed up)
Philly’s championship was text book.
They had one starter in Hamels who was LIGHTS OUT (LCS and WS MVP) and won every game he started against good pitchers (Gallardo, Lowe, Billingsly, Shields, Kazmir).
Blanton stepped up and had a 3.18 ERA in 3 starts for them (and they won all 3 of his games).
Myers got a lot of run support, but beat Sabathia and Billingsly.
They had the best 8th-9th inning in baseball and a nice supporting cast (Romero/Eyre for lefties, Durbin for righties)
They played great defense, got clutch hits, and scored as many runs as they needed.
So to summarize:
One lights out starter who won every game
Another starter who outperformed his expectations (Blanton)
A lights out bullpen
Good defense
Timely and clutch hits
The other thing you guys have to consider:
Yankees would not face in-division teams in the first round. If we were to face Boston or Tampa it would be in the ALCS–the longer series.
There’s no battle, only discussion.
I’m a prospect hugger myself, but if we can get Halladay without giving up Hughes or Montero that’s something I think the team should do because it would make the team that much stronger.
In the 08 NLCS, The LA Dodgers were leading in all but 5 innings of the 4 games they lost…..They may very well be the best NL team since the 01 Diamondbacks…..Miggs, I’ve been talking up Brian Banister ever since Wang went down…He’d slot perfectly in the rotation…..Halliday would be like hoping for a Mustang for Graduation and getting a Jaguar
So what you guys are saying is that in order to make it to the playoffs and advance, the Yankees need to have 3 aces on their staff. That’s essentially what you’re saying.
Mitre won’t have any success. Wang is done for the year. Joba won’t improve, and Andy will continue to regress.
Unless Roy Halladay comes riding in on his white horse to save the day, the team may as well pack it in right now.
If you really think that way I’m sorry, but I completely disagree.
Nothing is guaranteed.
But yes, having 3 aces on your staff improves the odds greatly.
We’ll worry about how to deal with the Yankees bought their championship AFTER they actually win one.
Halladay wants to win and we need a dominate pitcher that is determined and his confidence will rub off on the rest of the rotation. It would also help CC and A.J relax more taking the pressure off of them.
Ok I give up.
Have fun pining for Halladay.
Here’s hoping Brian Cashman isn’t as shortsighted and trigger-happy as you guys are.
If he is then the franchise will be set back another 5-10 years.
Scoring runs in the postseason has been just as big a problem as pitching.
I’m not saying they can’t win but right now this team is not better then Boston or LA. I’m sorry but that is a fact, because there bottom end of there rotation is really bad. Joba and Andy are horrible and they aren’t going to improve and everyday they pitch they wear out the bullpen and put pressure on cc, aj, to be perfect during there starts and that happened against the angels. If joba and andy can’t get it done in the regular season then they aren’t getting it done in october. This team will face tough teams in the AL in October, so if they don’t get a top of the line pitcher there chances look bad in october. Get ready for football season.
I’m with Miggs as well. Everyone is so concerned about breaking the bank (prospects wise) so that the Yankees can have THREE great starters in the postseason. People, the Yankees are not going to automatically be eliminated because they don’t have a third ace. No team does.
Let’s look at the Red Sox and Angels, the two teams that the Yankees supposedly will have to go through in the playoffs.
The Sox have Wakefield and Smoltz/Penny. Does that scare you?
The Angels only have 1 starter with an ERA under 4.00 and that’s Weaver. Saunders and Lackey are their #2 and #3 starters and both have ERA’s over 4.40.
The Tigers have nothing behind Verlander and Jackson. Seriously, Pettitte and Joba are not as bad as some here are making them out to be. Just 2 weeks ago Pettitte had a 4.30 ERA and Joba had a 3.90 ERA. That’s very good. They are going through a rough stretch right now. Let’s just see how they do in the second half.
when you face good pitching you aren’t going to score many runs. This team need a pitcher who can shut down an offense for 7-8 innings. With cc and a.j. backing him up there will be little offense from the other side, giving the yankees a better chance to win.
Miggs some Cards pitchers from 2006 Carpenter,Wainwright,
Weaver marquis,Suppan.
“I’m not saying they can’t win but right now this team is not better then Boston or LA.”
Actually, they’re better than LA because they have the better record. Don’t give me head to head matchups because according to that, the Yankees are worse than the Nationals.
“Joba and Andy are horrible and they aren’t going to improve”
Sheesh. Joba is only 23 years old, he has plenty chance of improving. Andy is a career second half pitcher and was only terrible last year because he was injured. I’m not saying he’ll be great in the second half, but he could give us innings and pitch to a 4.30 ERA (improvement for him), which I’d take in a heartbeat.
RS
Yeah but the Red Sox have Beckett and Lester. Look at there career numbers against the yankees and postseason stats. Beckett is one of the best big game pitchers. Andy was terrible last season and joba is erratic. This is why we lose every year in the alds because we have faith in guys who can’t get it done. Joba is not the same as he was last year, and andy is washed up ( he doesn’t have good enough stuff) A chance like this comes once in a life time, if we don’t do it then the yankees aren’t beating the Angels let alone Boston. Bostn could go to the world series this year and win again while the yankees are sitting at home watching them win it.
*Vernon* *Wells* of
7 years/$126M (2008-14)
$25.5M signing bonus (paid in 3 $8.5M installments, March 1 2008-10)
10:$12.5M, 11:$23M, 12:$21M, 13:$21M, 14:$21M
full no-trade clause
Wells may opt out of contract after 2011
Wells to donate $143,000 annually to Blue Jays charity
*Alex* *Rios* of
7 years/$69.835M (2008-14), plus 2015 club option
signed 2/5/08 ($3.5M signing bonus remains, 2008 salary reduced from $1.335M to $0.735M)
08:$0.735M, 09:$5.9M, 10:$9.7M, 11:$12M, 12:$12M, 13:$12.5M, 14:$12.5M, 15:$13.5M club option ($1M buyout)
full no-trade clause, 2009-10
limited no-trade clause, 2011 – end of deal (may block trades to 6 clubs)
Wells’ contract is double that of Rios. Rios, while overpaid in today’s market, isn’t that bad. Both have a full no trade right now, but I’m sure would waive to play on the Yanks and a winner.
If the Jays would be willing to pay a portion of Wells salary to unload him, a la ARod from Texas, the Yanks could get them with the right prospects and talent. It happens all the time.
Wells and HallAday for Joba, Ajax, Melky/Gardner, Nunez/Pena, Romine/Cervelli
If anyone wants to talk this Halladay stuff over in person, I’m at Hodori on Vermont.
I’m the white guy who looks like he’s been driving for 7 hours.
One thing about Pettitte that I think people are missing.
Pettitte hasn’t completely lost his “stuff”. In his last couple starts, his fastball has been 89-90 mph, which is just fine.
The thing with Pettitte is that his command this year has not been good. He’s walking more batters than normal and putting himself into a lot of hitter’s counts. It’s been said that NYS has affected his willingness to attack the strike zone, and perhaps that’s the case.
If he can get over that fear, then I do think he has a chance to pitch better. He also needs to be able to command his offspeed pitches, something I’ve seen little of so far.
RS, what scares me is the ineptitude of the Yanks against both the Angels and Boston. You put Halladay on either of those teams and it makes it even worse. Psychologically, both teams own the Yanks. Something has to be done to overcome that. Halladay is one way. Heath Bell is another, to a lesser extent.
We are going nowhere with the team constituted the way it is now. We’ll bow out like we’ve done the past 5 years in the ALDS.
Wells is staying in Toronto, or he will get cut like the dodgers did Andruw Jones.
I’ll give you head to head match ups because thats what baseball is. This isn’t a rotisserie league where the guy with the most points wins. The Yanks can’t beat Boston or Anahiem. Period. They took 2 from the Angels at home, big deal. You have to win on the road in the playoffs.
Carl, the contract stinks, but the player isn’t hitting below .200 with no power. He is not washed up. He is average. But, he still better than 1/2 our outfield at the very least.
Nick, what do you do to be travelling around so much?
Giuseppe Franco
How many mature 23 yr olds do you know?
I don’t know very many myself and I sure as hell wasn’t very mature when I was 23.
I know I wasn’t the only one either.
__
Perhaps mature is not the right word, but I don’t see the kind of self-effacing quality that I saw in Jeter at a similar age or Hughes now.
I may have been a full-time partier at 23, but I could admit my shortcomings. That’s what I don’t see in Joba.
I mean Roy Halladay. 8 inning Halladay. With CC/Roy/AJ at the top of your rotation for years to come just wow. Inning eaters. Dominate inning eaters feeding off of each other. You can’t pass on this.
It’d be like the Braves of the Nineties, only we can hit and have a decent bullpen.
DB
Hes not going to get any better. It is possibly the worst contract in the MLB along with Barry Zito. No one will give Roy Halladay a contract extension plus take on Vernon Wells’ contract.
Would you believe I just make a lot of wrong turns?
I bet a lot of folks here move around a lot, I’m just the only shmoe who updates his location all the time.
“So what you guys are saying is that in order to make it to the playoffs and advance, the Yankees need to have 3 aces on their staff. That’s essentially what you’re saying.”
You know what’s funny to me ? Is that we signed CC Sabathia and AJ Burnett b/c of this !!! That way we don’t get trigger happy, they signed a franchise 1B, a top of the line SP Ace in CC Sabathia and a very good # 2 SP in AJ Burnett. Wang goes down all the sudden it’s like everyone sucks. Doc right now to me is a want and he’ll end up in Philly, Milwaukee or San Francisco maybe even Anaheim, but I doubt the Red Sox or Yankees will put up the prospects JP wants.
If or when Wang returns he slots into the #3 position, Andy is a 4 and Joba needs to improve as a #5 in the second half. Right now what I see is too much panic about the #3 spot and that can be patched up. Now if god forbid one of the top 2 SP on this rotation gets hurt then you panic, right now maybe it’s just me but I ain’t desperate, if Mitre provides what Giese did last season he slots in as a #4 SP and that’s not bad. They need to get Robi going and Gardner/Melky need to continue to get on base so they can play more.
See Carl DB and the others are right. Halladay changes the equation he brings confidence to the pitching staff and the entire team. Halladay is our counter to Josh Beckett in the big game. And with CC and AJ backing him we can put teams away easily because out pitchers will be able to shut down the offense of these playoff teams. You are not winning with Andy or Joba. I know that many of you love Joba but he is overrated and Hughes always had the better makeup, and we have plenty of pitching prospects that can replace Joba if dealt. People need to stop falling in love with these prospects all the time because some work out and many don’t. I would keep Montero and Hughes, and Joba would be on my list to trade for Halladay. If Cashman doesn’t pull a trade then the yankees will lose again in the alds, girardi will be fired, and cashman should be fired because he allowed the organization to fail and lose potential revenue from the postseason.
Srsly if anything needs to be done I’d guess Cashman needs to figure out a way to steal a Jonathan Sanchez from SFG or Jared Washburn from SEA or Ian Snell or Zach Duke from PIT. We should be fine.
AND GET RID OF RANSOM !
“RS, what scares me is the ineptitude of the Yanks against both the Angels and Boston.”
I agree, the psychological factor is a concern. But it’s not like the season is ending today. The Yankees have 4 games left against the Angels (all home) and 10 games left against the RS (6 home). They have plenty of time left to build up confidence before the playoffs.
I say we should take on Rios contract. But to everyone who says that he won’t be dealt to the yankees or red sox don’t understand the situation. JP and the Jays organization is in trouble money wise and they are desperate, it you taje rios contract of there hands you won’t have to give up that much for Halladay. It woiuld be killing two birds with one stone- improving the outfield and the pitching staff.
What I’m suggesting is not taking on the complete contract, but half of it. He is 31 yo and will be servicable for the length of the contract. Also, his big pay out years are in 11-14. If you can get the Jays to spit that his pay would be alot more agreeable.
Before you scoff at that idea, it happens all the time. Why wouldn’t the Jays like to do that? They get very attractive young players with no money attached and half the bill of a guy draining your payroll.
Yes get rid of ransom PLEASE !
Why is he still on this team- he can’t field or hit.
sorry I said take rios contract off there hands. LOL typing to fast.
You know what’s saving the Yankees’ butts right now?
Dice-K and Kazmir. Why? Because at the start of April, the Yankees, Red Sox, and Rays all had very strong starting rotations, and no one team’s was vastly superior to the others.
If before the season began, someone told us that Wang would have just 1 win by late July/August, we would have thought the Yankees were screwed.
But luckily, the Red Sox have had the same problems with Dice-K and Kazmir. Imagine if right now those two were putting up similar numbers to last season. We might be in third place.
We THOUGHT we had three Ace starters going into this year. Wang imploded. Many seen it coming, not me for one. I actually drafted him high on my fantasy team.
That changes things.
The Yanks will need divine intervention to get past those two teams without changing something. Does Girardi have a brother who needs a new heart?
Ransom has to hold the fort, he’s a backup utility infielder. His job is perhaps the most useless on the team besides the last guy in the bullpen, Tomko.
He was solid last year in defense and has got a little pop. This year he is a basket case for being ARod’s understudy.
This organization-team needs to stop depending on certain guys to get the job done when they show they can’t. We need to face facts Andy is done (he is washed up) I like Andy and he has done a lot for this organization but he should have just retired after last year because he is ineffective. Joba’s stuff is gone and he is a basketcase. He is arrogant, and immature, and won’t admit that he is not the same pitcher he was last year. If you go into the post season depending on them then you know the yankees are done in the ALDS. Everyone compares Penny and Smoltz to Andy and Joba but one thing they do better then Joba and Andy is a least pitching to the 6 inning while just giving up a couple of runs giving their team a chance to win.
That’s why we need Halladay, certain situations call for action and some don’t but this one does because if the yankees don’t make the postseason this year heads are going to roll.
Nick, pretty coy my friend. I’m in Yonkers personally and only travel local. I enjoy your light hearted wit and humour on the blog.
Alas, I’m up too late and need a little sleep. Good Night all.
“That’s why we need Halladay, certain situations call for action and some don’t but this one does because if the yankees don’t make the postseason this year heads are going to roll.”
Oh please same ol’ same ol’ if anything they sign Darvish or Chapman and wait for Doc to become a FA in 2010.
dont trade for halladay. he will require giving up all our best young guys and he will require an extension. we will be heading for being the oldest team in history if we do.
also its time to pull the plug on joba as a starter for this year. the reason we need phil in the bp is because we dont have joba there. time to reverse that, put joba in the pen and stretch phil out and put him back in the rotation.
i have changed my mind. i would include joba and montero in a trade for Halladay. add one other player of yr choice. joba has mentality probs and montero really has no place to play. the value of both is still high.
I don’t care who we trade .. as long as Hughes and Montero aren’t in the deal.
God, I HATE the all star break
I find it interesting that both Beckett band Halladay,now specifically mentioned their willingness to come to the Yankees when talking trades,and or contracts negotiations!
Yankees must take a shot on Halladay, there’s no reason to not go for him.
I say trade Joba, just fuck him and his 23 years, he’s a joke.
When he came up to the majors, I thought the yankees just called up the new Verlander, strong starting pitcher reaching 95+ fb’s. As we know for now, he can only do this playing 1 inning.
Hughes has way more control, not afraid facing anyone with his stuff, Hughes is the ACE of the future, I just can’t forget what he did against Texas before the injury.
Let’s get rid of Joba while he worth something.
If the Jays won’t provide a window to talk to Halladay he is going to the team:
First, which cares most about winning now, which takes the view that the flag flies forever and tomorrow will take care of itself.
Second, a team with good veterans or a good core, for whom the addition of Halladay could mean two consecutive WS titles.
Third, a team with a good farm system, because even as a 1.5 year rental Halladay is immensely valuable if he’s the missing piece and he will fetch a good haul of prospects.
Money will be less important if there is no salary renegotiation, it will cut out the teams on extremely tight pursestrings but in general they aren’t in contention anyway.
Based on that, the Cards, Phillies, Angels and Brewers seem the most likely candidates to me.
Finally, a New York writer that gets why the Yankees need to try to get Halladay.
http://www.nypost.com/seven/07.....179114.htm
>I find it interesting that both Beckett band Halladay,now
>specifically mentioned their willingness to come to the
>Yankees when talking trades,and or contracts negotiations!
I’m asking this in a non-standoffish way– what’s your point?
Most players will mention the Yankees to drive the price up. Everyone knows the Yanks spend money and players feel if the Yanks are involved other teams will raise their offers.
won’t the lack of a negotiating window only limit what they get in return? seems like a stupid thing to not allow IMO. what to the Jays gain by not letting the other team negotiate? what would the lose if they did let the other team negotiate? if I was a team working up a deal, I would give less for the uncertainty…
I don’t see how anyone can pin their hopes on Wang returning…….and returning in good form. He is not returning until after the trade deadlline – the Yankees can not wait around to decide they need a pitcher or two. After the deadline passes, it’s too late. I don’t understand why anyone would want to pin their hopes on Joba improving enough to be a positive factor. Sure, he might – but it is no given thing. The Yankees spent an awful lot of $$ to bring in top FAs to get this team back to the playoffs. This is a very good team – they deserve every chance to make and succeed in the playoffs. For that, they need at least two pitchers. They don’t NEED Halladay – if the price is not righ – but he’s Halladay and he’d be a huge piece. If not Doc, then still we need two other pitchers. I really don’t think I’d trust Bannister in the AL East…..or Washburn, for that matter……..but who else is there?
Even if the yankees get Chapman next year he will need at least a year in the minors. We will go into next year with joba and phil again and there is no way of knowing that they wil show any improvement in the rotation next year. And once again the yankees will struggle when it comes to pitching for the 7th year in a row and fail to get into the playoffs, while Boston most likely wins another championship.
>I find it interesting that both Beckett band Halladay,now
>specifically mentioned their willingness to come to the
>Yankees when talking trades,and or contracts negotiations!
It’s smart marketing. If nothing else it gets the Yankees a little bit interested which will only help drive up the price. Even if the Yankees aren’t that interested, the teams that are will have the thought in the back of their mind that you’ll take the higher money, so they better come with their best offer.
It’s always amusing when media people try and figure out what other guys are thinking.
Halladay could very well have his own mental list of teams that he would go to for a year and a half. Being a FA at 34 isn’t a terrible thing and he would have two seasons with a better chance to win and to try out his new team/city.
However if there’s no extension talk it definitely cuts into what I’d be willing to give up for him and I’m sure that’s true of the teams in the running for him.
The wild card in all this is money and whether or not Ricciardi has marching orders to not only move Halladay but at least one of the contracts for Rio ($62 M) or Wells ($ 98 M). If they want to move that kind of money they will get a mediocre talent return especially if it’s Wells.
I could almost see this as an NBA type trade where the Yankees move an expiring (Wang? Damon?) or near-expiring (Swisher?) contract in the deal while accepting a long-term contract. Where’s Isaiah Thomas when you need him?
Cash is King, he lost me when he quoted Papelbum…
other than that he was right
Well if the yankees don’t get a dan Haren or Roy Halladay then the yankees will face a quick exit in the ALDS this year. I guess were going to have to feel the pain and witness another humiliating defeat in the first round, while Joe Torre’s Dodgers or the Red Sox win the world series.
Pel no matter how much the Yankees are supposedly hated,everybody wants to play for the Yankees. I frequently have this discussion with non Yankees fans.They read here and that was for them.
So take this for what it’s worth.
But I have learned that Roy Halladay and Vernon Wells are going to the sent to the Philles straight up for Jayson Werth and J.A. Happ.
Not saying it’s true, but its just something I have been told.
Hey, DB at 1:39 AM: “Thanks” for sharing the details of Wells and Rios’ Contracts.
My whole point in asking for the details on their deals was that everybody has been going through all the trade possibilities and permutations to get Halladay, while the Yankees greatest strength and leverage in these negotiations could be the financial relief they could offer a club like Toronto and – thus – they may not have to give up ANY “blue chip” prospects in our Farm System (which would make a lot of the points being made in these posts unnecessary and moot).
Now, it’s abundantly clear why people say Well’s Contract is so “toxic”. At 31 years of age today, he’s scheduled to make over $24 Million (with pro-rated bonuses) in 2013 & 2014 – when he’s 35 & 36 years old (Yikes!!)
So – I don’t know if even having Toronto paying some of his salary will make that much of a difference.
However, Alex Rios – a recent, former All Star – is another story.
At 28 years of age, his deal – which calls for no more than $13 Million a year at it’s peak – also runs through 2014 (when he’ll be only 33 – 34).
Rios is a Guy who could hit .290, give you 20-25 HR’s, 80-90 RBI’s, steal 20-25 Bases and he has a powerful arm.
Again – considering that Damon, Matsui, Nady, Pettite & Molina – and their ~$40 Million in Salaries are all coming off our books at the end of this Season – would a Halladay / Rios Package to help fill in the larger parts of these imminent, future “gaps” – preemptively – be all that “bad”?
Especially, if – by taking on their Salaries – it will allow us to “save” some of the blue chip Prospects that have been discussed at length in these postings – namely, Joba, Hughes, Montero, Ajax, etc.?
Remember 3 things here: (1) We don’t have anybody in the Minors who could be an OF who could make an instant contribution on the ML Level like Alex Rios (2) Toronto – as of today – is committed to ~$81 Million in Salaries for 2010. Taking Halladay and Rios off their books gives them $25 Million in instant salary relief in 2010 and (3) Don’t forget that JP Ricciardi just “ate” over $10 Million in Guaranteed Salary in 2010 when he released BJ Ryan – so this is a Guy who will be under pressure to reduce salaries even further in 2010 – but – JP is nobody’s fool – he knows that – after 2010 – his bloated payroll will be reduced by over 40% of 2009’s Payroll if he can go out of Halladay’s & Rios’ Contracts and be through with paying off BJ Ryan’s Contract.
The Bottom Line: we should be able to secure Halladay and Rios by taking on their salaries and including a few upper to mid level Prospects who have a high ceiling (and not the blue chip Prospects whom many people here feel so passionately about).
I’m going to say this one more time. There is no way that any team in baseball will trade for Halladay plus take either of those outfielders. It’s not happening in today’s economy and people need to get it through their thick skulls that nobody in baseball can afford those contracts mid-season. If Toronto insist that the other team takes Wells or Rios then Halladay will still be a Blue Jay on August 1st.
Guys, you need to realize the luxury tax implications which is why no team will do it mid-season because it would most likely force them over the threshold.
I’m a prospect hugger at heart but in a non-emotional sense, NY trading young ones for Halladay without an extension makes some sense.
The AL East division appears to have the talent developing to only get better. It is currently a 3 team race and the Orioles are also developing players that could add them to the mix in the near future.
Acquiring Halladay and going for 1 or 2 quick strikes at the WS might be a smart move while the race is still at 3 teams.
18 months from now, the decision of whether to re-sign him as a free agent can be made knowing better the landscape of the league and his viability in NY.
I go back and forth wanting the Yankees to trade for Halladay. It’s going to hurt a lot loosing some of the young guys after rebuilding the farm.
If CMW had been healthy or Joba had performed better, there would be no need for the Yankees to make a move like this.
The Yankees need to make the playoffs, no ifs, ands, or buts.
The Yankees will make move for another pitcher because I don’t think you can count on CMW or Joba. Maybe someone from AAA can get it done. Not much time left to find out though.
No way the Jays get 2 big time prospects for an 18 month rental, maybe they could get one. That stance may change, maybe not. The Jays may vary well be trying to get rid of Wells or Rios rather than get a big take.
I would not mind seeing the Yankees give up less and take on Rios, not Wells.
This is going to be an interesting couple of weeks.
Cash is King thanks for putting up that new york post article. And what Papelbon said was true, whoever gets Halladay is a world series contending team, especially if he comes to the yankees.
TheCro—-
That’s similar to a breakdown I did on an earlier thread. Rios is a much more acceptable contract than Weels, which is why I don’t thik the Jays will be in a hurry to move it. Wells’ deal is admittedly awful, but he’s still a fine player and if that $$$ gets you Halladay without having to surrender any of the top 5 prospects say then it has to at least be considered.
If they take Wells, they certainly would include Swisher in the deal and possibly Wang to offset some of the financial impact.
If Wells and Halladay replace Matsui and Pettite in 2010 the Yanks will be tounger and more athletic, but certainly not cheaper. Tacking on Wells also ends any conversation of keeping Damon as a DH let alone Nady.
Damon, Matsui, Nady, Swisher and Pettite make almost $ 10 Million more in 2009 than Halladay, Wells and Austin Jackson will in 2010 so you still have some financial flexibility.
Wells isn’t a fine player any longer and especially not for 107M.
Cash is King:
Please chill out on the hyperbole.
Please read before you rant.
I think I laid out in a detailed, financial way how getting Halladay and Rios could make sense.
Yes, we would be further “over the threshold” for the second half of this Season – but – by the time Spring Training starts in 2010, Hallady and Rios (NOT Wells) could be absorbed by our payroll (as it was on Opening Day 2009).
AND – since when is an increase in our Luxury Tax – for half a season – such a “Deal Breaker”?
Maybe there is something you need to get through your “thick skull” – and that is that the New York Yankees CAN afford these Contracts – IF they choose to take them on – even with all of the financial implications you alluded to.
After CC and AJ signed this past Winter, I was one of the few people who stridently asserted that – financially – Teix was a possibility to be acquired – AND – that he would be worth it for his improved hitting and fielding at 1B, as well as his Clubhouse Chemistry.
I feel the same was about Halladay and Rios – as they shore up our areas of weakness immediately (SP & OF) and into the future (4-5 years).
If the yankees keep Phil Hughes and Montero then it isn’t a big lose. Joba and Austin Jackson can be replaced. We still have plenty of pitching prospects such as mcallister, brackman, and so on.
“Cash is King:
Please chill out on the hyperbole.”
You’re the one posting hyperbole with this nonsense. Your scenario doesn’t work, not for Cashman or the Steinbrenners.
Cash is King —
Obviously Wells contract is ridiculous, but in the context of the conversation that TheCro and I put forward it’s not a factor.
And yes, he’s still a fine player… the question is does absorbing his contract in exchange for keeping the best prospects worth it. I would say No, but I was just outlining how it could work.
And besides, it’s not my money.
Again, Wells isn’t a fine player even for half of what’s left in his contract.
You’re right about one thing. It’s not your money which is why this is nonsense because the Yankees aren’t spending that type of money mid-season.
Two Words:
Hensley Meulens.
If you can get Halladay, you trade Joba, AJax, Etc. Yankees have always thought way too highly of their prospects.
Isn’t it great to have people on this board who know exactly what Cashman is thinking and what the Steinbrothers are willing/unwilling to do?
So Einstein, what is the offer for Halladay alone? No reason to keep up in thedark, is there?
Adam W.
Two Words:
Hensley Meulens.
__
Two more words:
Not fungible.
The logical extension of your post is that all prospects are the same. If you really think that, you have absolutely no knowledge of prospects or baseball. After all, every star in MLB was a prospect at one time. Does that mean that they are tantamount to Meulens?
Please stop.
The New York Yankees are more exciting than a Broadway play and much less expensive!
And the crowds are much more affluent now and completely civilized.
The next generation New York Yankees.
Let’s go Yankees!
Ive said this elsewhere, I’d love to get everyones thoughts on it.
3 team deal
Yankees get:
Roy Halladay
Barry Zito (with SF paying his 3.5 million dollar 2014 option to be waived and the rest of his signing bonus)
72 hour negotiating window with Halladay
Giants get:
Vernon Wells
Shelley Duncan
$10 Million from Toronto
Blue Jays get:
Zach McAllister
Juan Miranda
2 PTBNL from NYY
1 PTBNL from SFG
If I was Brian Sabean, I would easily take that deal because its a big PR boost for my club, the team ERA is bound to go down, I can call up one of my stud kids in Zito’s place and wait for RJ to come back as my 3rd or 4th starter. I don’t have to go looking for too much in the way of a bat because I’ve turned a big negative into a positive, with respect to what I have now. Although Vernon Wells is no Albert Pujols, if I stick him in my lineup, he’s just potent enough to make me feel like I can take the division but guarantee the Wild Card.
If I was Brian Cashman, I would hesitate to pick up Barry Zito, but I could find a place for him as a mop up man (albeit a very, very expensive one) or someone who can eat some innings here and there. Worst comes to worst, Zito meets with Eiland and Nardi and they cook up something. Meanwhile I’ve guaranteed myself the division in adding Halladay to the front of the rotation, and will probably go to the World Series.
If I was JP Ricciardi I would take the deal because I get some decent prospects, I don’t have to pay Vernon Wells anymore and I don’t have to take on a bad contract either. I’ve freed about 35 million a year or so. With the new baseball economy, I can grab a few discount players and try to compete for the wild card. But hey, its not like I can contend with what I’ve got now, so what am I really holding on to? Maybe I can firesale my way into a strong haul in the offseason.
With Montero’s bat he could come up in September and have an effect like Miguel Cabrera did ALA the 2003 playoffs. you find a way to get him in the lineup no matter where with his hitting ability. Ajax nobody is expecting him tocome in and hit 20 bombs, he is more of a curtis Granderson type player, will hit with some power but will be more gap to gap hitter and let his speed take over, not all starters need to be able to hit massive amounts of home runs.
its a done deal! championship #27
YANKEES trade JOBA, MELKY, MONTERO, PENA & KENNEDY for HALLADAY & WELLS
3 way trade proposal, i like any trade that does not give away phil or joba who Yanks will have to face for 10years on toronto.
TheInfallibleOne – your deal is a joke, unless Jobba or Hughes plus Montero are the PTBNL. In essence the Blue Jays get two so-so prospects and salary relief for Roy Halladay. Meanwhile if the Red Sox offer 3 of their best prospects Cash will have to jump in with Chamberlain or Hughes, plus Montero, plus Jackson AND offer to take VWells. Finally there will be NO negotiating window. JP has the Phils and Milwaukee desperate for pitching. That will be his leverage on this. If the Yanks want Halladay they have to trade 3 A+ guys minimum and if the Phils offer the package of Donald, Happ and Marson the Yanks will have to give more (AL East vs. moving Roy to NL) or give the 3 blue chippers plus take Wells or Rios. I know giving Hughes, Montero and Jackson will hurt, but giving Buchholz, Anderson and Bowden will hurt the Sox just as much – and Roy Halladay is Toronto’s iconic player, so it hurts them the most. Face it and take your B grade prospects and put them away.
SJ,
In your opinion who are the players Cash is protecting…
Is he Protecting – Montero, Romine, Banuelos, JOBA, DeLeon, Mojica, Melancon
Willing to part with – Hughes, Jackson, Betances, McAllister, Brackman
Are B/C prospects like eduardo nunez, juan Miranda, and Kevin Russo have any real value?
Or young guys in the gulf – Mojica, Toussen, Flores, Sosa, and a Urena- have any value to the Jays?
Would a deal that looks like: Jackson, Hughes, McAllister, Nunez, &
SJ,
Who are the players Cash is trying to protect?
Montero? Banuelos? Romine? DeLeon? JOBA?
You said they have the pieces…
Is a package of Hughes, Jackson, plus McAllister, Nunez, & Brackman get the deal done?