Today in The Journal News
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Jul 16, 2009 
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When it comes to being a Yankees fan, Jane Heller wrote the book. Jake Thomases has the story of one of our long-time blog readers.
Ramey July 16th, 2009 at 9:05 am
I don’t see how he’s considered doing a good job in those starts, but when Joba does the usual 5 innings and 3 or 4 runs, he’s considered doing a poor job? I’m not nitpicking, or trying to stir up an argument, I’m honestly just wondering, why is there a difference between the two?
———–
Cashman and Girardi disagree with you. Hughes was rewarded for pitching well and moved to the pen instead of sent back down to Scranton.
Hughes himself said he’s rather stay with the big club and pitch out of the pen than go back to Scranton and pitch out of the rotation.
So that’s what they did.
BTW, one of those starts against Baltimore was the outing Hughes had 9 K’s against them in 5.0 IP.
That had a lot to do with his short outing.
becket,lester,dice have just been getting it done.
wang & our staff have not.
i just don’t see how we get past boston or the angels without doc.
jmo. unless cc,burnett,pettitte,joba can step it up & outpitch our opponents.
only time will tell.
Wow.
I don’t think we should trade for Halladay unless it’s Joba, Pena, McAllister and maybe 2 more pitchers. I’m not giving up Jackson (unless we’re absorbing Rios’ contract) and I’m definitely not giving up Montero. There is just absolutely no way in **** I’m giving up Montero. We don’t need Halladay that badly and we don’t know that he’d sign an extension.
Halladay is the best pitcher alive and in my opinion, during his time in the league, always has been. Better than CC, better than Santana, Lincecum, etc. He’s the best.
in all of this it would have been nice for us to trade for a young pitcher & have him turn into an ace & develope one or two instead of reacting & signing 29-32 yr old so called aces all the time.
bru,
That’s where your argument dies a horrible death.
Dice-K hasn’t gotten anything done this season.
He’s 1-5, 8.23 ERA this season and is currently on the DL with no timetable for his return.
“BTW, one of those starts against Baltimore was the outing Hughes had 9 K’s against them in 5.0 IP.”
I know that was the start he had 9ks, which is why I said it was his best short outing to date, but regardless of how well he was throwing the ball, he wasn’t getting optimal results. The same can be said for Joba as well. They’re both young pitchers and their careers are very similar to one another, both with ups and downs, some strong outings surrounded by numerous shaky outings.
Ramey July 16th, 2009 at 9:24 am
I know that was the start he had 9ks, which is why I said it was his best short outing to date, but regardless of how well he was throwing the ball, he wasn’t getting optimal results. The same can be said for Joba as well. They’re both young pitchers and their careers are very similar to one another, both with ups and downs, some strong outings surrounded by numerous shaky outings.
—————-
That’s how you develop young pitchers. You have to take the lumps with the good performances.
I don’t see Hughes or Joba going anywhere.
we all knew we were going to need a minimum of 7 pitchers.
sabathia
burnett
pettitte
wang
joba
hughes
hughes was put in the pen wich takes us to 5 pitchers,wang hurt now we are at 4.
the difference since 2005 is the top 2 or 3 pitchers on the teams we faced were better than ours.
when that changes we are back on top.
“i just don’t see how we get past boston or the angels without doc.”
you mean the yankees had to get sabathia, aj burnett, doc halladay, ad mark teixeira to compete for #27.
the team must have been really bad to start with then.
a downside of this all in one year signing of free agents ( or extensions to halliday) is that they’ll all at some point be old at the same time with a few years left on gigantic contracts.
i really think if brian cashman can’t make at least a good showing in the playoffs with the hand he mostly bought, he really shouldn’t be buying more players on top of the big three he already bought.
do we really want to watch arod, sabathia, halliday, jeter, burnett,teixeira, and whoever else the yankees sign next winter getting old at very close to the same time ?
thie is cashman’s team right now. let him win or lose with it.
let’s see what he’s made of instead of letting him buy a get out of jail free card.
Giuseppe Franco
———————————————————–
this year is not in the books so i don’t count it.
i mean in the past.
“That’s how you develop young pitchers. You have to take the lumps with the good performances.
I don’t see Hughes or Joba going anywhere”
We are certainly in agreeance on that
notice how i put wang in there & he is hurt.
it is because he has not gotten it done in the past series.
randy you’ve become a one trick pony, bro. Every post of yours is about how terrible Cashman is.
Mix it up a little, throw in a few posts praising the Twins or Livan Hernandez.
randy l.
we came out of the 90′s ok.
we have a better farm system with a lot of young players contributing.
we signed all old mercenaries that helped build a dynasty.
yes we had a homegrown core also.
but we are not in bad shape now.
every year i hear that we are going to be left with an old broken team but it hasn’t happened yet & now we have a much better farm system.
In 2009, Dice-K = Wang
All this talk of Halladay being too old is bunk. His 6.2 K/BB ratio is the best in the AL for starters. He is a control freak and he won’t need to overpower pitchers as he approaches age 40. Put it this way, the adjustment period Moose needed to learn how to pitch with diminished stuff and velocity is not needed at all by Halladay. At 32, he’s every bit as much of a pitcher as Moose was at 38-40. Halladay’s velocity should remain fairly constant through age 35. From there, he’s a more polished version of Mike Mussina.
Haren was something I proposed over the winter. The consensus was dream on. Financial reasons was why I thought we could maybe pull it off. I believe this was around the time they laid-off a bunch of front office personal. I bet the finances are worse now. 18.5 games back can’t hurt either.
GF I am not sure Theo is not interested in Doc. I remember what a strength the Sox pen was when they went out and got Gagne.
i’d be happy either way.
if we keep our kids fine because i don’t know for sure what the winning formula is or if it is a mistake to trade our kids.
i do know one thing.
we are probably a better team with halladay for this year & next.
but how much & for how long does it hurt us going forward??
the yankees have done a decent job at not getting burned in trades.
guzman,johnson,navarro have not hurt us much.
pena maybe.
most prospects do not make much of a difference but they do make a team younger & drive payroll down.
is montero or joba going to be an elite player???
the yankees have the farm system to take a hit.
Haren is one of the top 3 pitchers in all of baseball and he is AL tested. He’s also only 29.
From the last thread, the Yankees equivalent of the Hanley Ramirez + Anibel Sanchez for Beckett and Lowell deal would be Jesus Montero + Zachary McAllister for Haren + Byrnes.
Byrnes is a horrible contract, but Lowell was considered equally unmovable at the time.
All of this trade talk is a waste of time. The Yanks aren’t going to trade for a front of the rotation starter like Halladay or Haren.
I guess it’s the only thing to talk about on offdays but I am thinking this crap will continue even when the games start again.
I love reading Jane’s stuff. Thanks for sharing that.
Patrick,
I’d say more Yankees fans doubt this team can compete with merely a patented Cashman ‘tweaking’. This is also the grand opening year for the new stadium and the owners obviously want to make a big splash as evidenced by their off season spending. Something to bear in mind.
That was a nice article on Jane. I loved her book and I read her site daily. After a tough loss, its nice to read her blog and laugh a little.
Bret the Hitman
nobody is immuned to aging.
doc will not be as good at 40 or 35 just like every other human being on this planet.
he might pitch ok but his best years are now.
even mussina’s best year was not when he won 20 games.
it was probably 1995
Roy Halladay would be thrilled to have the career that Mike Mussina had as a Yankee from the age of 32 and onward except he’d like to see rings that Mussina never got.
Bru. Of course Halladay is not immune to aging but he has displayed the control that is necessary for when a power pitcher loses velocity in his mid 30′s.
“randy you’ve become a one trick pony, bro. Every post of yours is about how terrible Cashman is.
Mix it up a little, throw in a few posts praising the Twins or Livan Hernandez.”
Tell me about it as I’m going to just skip his posts because he doesn’t have anything interesting or new to say.
Bret,
Doesn’t matter what the fans think or want. Fans are naturally panicky and overreact quite a bit. Cashman isn’t a stupid fan and he won’t make a dumb deal to get Halladay or Haren.
Because the fact is, it WOULD BE a dumb deal.
Because the fact is, it WOULD BE a dumb deal.
—
Fact, eh?
if the yankees have the money & it becomes evident that boston might get him i think cashman is all in.
i think cashman sizes up the wang injury,talks to his people,scouts,etc.
if wang is out for a while i see cash getting halladay.
is wang’s contract up after this year??
if so he,pettitte,damon,matsui,nady,molina all probably gone.
patrick -
what i remember is you being totally wrong about hughes and kennedy last year and hiding for months with your tail between your legs.
i remember me being right.
if me being right gets boring to you , read someone else .
“Tell me about it as I’m going to just skip his posts because he doesn’t have anything interesting or new to say.”
you might want to read patrick. he has a history of being wrong , but he’s very entertaining in his youthful enthusiasm
Bret the Hitman
all i am saying is that he will not be as good.
he might be ok but not as good.
look at clemens,zito,mussina,johnson & every other pitcher.
once they start getting in the 33 yr old range you are gambling.
we need a young pitcher.
the rs got becket at about 24 yrs old???
i think it is about getting the right pitcher that is going to beat becket or lester head to head.
unfortunately those 2 can go with any pitcher on any given day.
“Fact, eh?”
Sorry, it’s my opinion. you’re right, I can’t say it’s a fact.
randy,
Why are you getting defensive? First of all, my post was a joke. Second of all, I have been on this blog regularly all last year and this year. I’ve never hid from anyone, certainly not you (don’t make me laugh old man).
So you were right about Hughes and Kennedy. What does that have to do with anything? I’m not saying you are right or wrong about Cashman. I’m simply saying that you are a goddamn broken record right now. Every single post is “wah wah wah Cashman is terrible wah wah wah.”
If you can’t laugh at yourself you are taking life way too seriously. How did you get through life if you get butthurt when someone pokes fun at you?
At least he’s entertaining.
“So you were right about Hughes and Kennedy. What does that have to do with anything? I’m not saying you are right or wrong about Cashman. I’m simply saying that you are a goddamn broken record right now. Every single post is “wah wah wah Cashman is terrible wah wah wah.”
Bingo!
verlander against joba on sunday.
oh boy.
yo don’t mind trading prospects for a good young pitcher but it gets tricky when it is for a 32 yr old pitcher that will command huge money in a bad economy.
i just don’t see them getting bang for their buck on this one.
Man randy you are a crusty old bastard. You constantly whine and cry about how terrible Cashman is hoping someone is listening to you. Did your mother neglect you when you were a child? Is that why you repeat yourself over and over, hoping someone is reading your drivel?
Get the hell out of here, I’m done talking with your old ass
Here we go again w/ the over hyping of Dan Haren. It never ends does it.
1. Arizona isn’t dealing him
2. He’s not worth Joba/Montero
I dunno Brandon, Haren’s stats are pretty impressive.
You’re right though I wouldn’t trade Joba/Montero for him and Arizona ain’t trading him.
m
I was intrigued enough to go look.
If you are talking about the black Herve Legere that could double as an elbow pad for most players, I don’t think it’s part of the broadcast.
He’s impressive but still nowhere near Joba/Montero bait. That’s what people don’t get.
It’s like taking Jorge Posada at 19 and Roger Clemens at 23 dealing them for David Cone at 28…now does that sound like a smart move ?
How did you get through life if you get butt hurt when someone pokes fun at you?”
patrick -
when i was your age i didn’t take crap from smart asses like you.
and now , i don’t think you’d do too well running your mouth in front of me.
so just shut up and move on to someone else.
Wow internet tough guy over here.
Good point on the Joba/Montero comparison.
Montero = Jorge at 19 is most likely an understatement.
Joba = Clemens not so much. Clemens was winning a Cy Young/MVP at 23.
Still the point is there.
And if Clemens didn’t make himself persona-non grata, he would have been a good mentor for Joba.
Let’s all simmer down a little bit here.
I like Cashman as much as the next guy but when you look at his body of work it doesn’t really paint a picture of Championships and success. The best thing that ever happened to him was inheriting the team that Stick and Buck built and riding it to where we are now. He has spent and spent and spent and it hasn’t gotten us anywhere. He needs a refresher course on ‘Building A Team 101′. Not that I’m saying I’d do better, but I do think there are GMs who could do better with the monopoly money payroll.
Whoa who’s stealing my points and making them on radio ?
Brandon you got attacked by a squirrel? Scooter?
Some idiot took my point of trading for a young stud when putting Joba/Montero on the table, sonofa… even took credit for it, saying he thought about it today looking back at the Hanley for Beckett deal and why the Yankees can’t get those types of deals instead of aiming for Doc.
Atleast give me my credit you TROLL !