Watch a replay of the live chat
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Jul 16, 2009 
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Watch a replay of today’s live chat On Demand at LoHud.com/ProTalkLive.
Thanks to Friedrich Air Conditioning for sponsoring the chat. It was a lot of fun and we had some great questions.
———–
Damaso Marte pitched today. Glory be. He threw an inning in the Gulf Coast League against the Pirates. His line: 2 hits, 1 earned run, 0 walks, 0 strikeouts, 12 pitches / 11 strikes. He’ll pitch again in the GCL on Saturday.
Meanwhile, and I kid you not, the Mets will activate Angel Berroa today in Atlanta.
Julio Franco is livid!
Marte doesn’t count.
lol good luck berroa!
Angel Berroa fits the profile of an undercover Federal agent infiltrating MLB, moving from team to team with the acquiescence of front offices around the league who want to show they are free of PEDs and any other baseball sin, venial or mortal. He sure doesn’t merit continued employment based on performance.
If the players were my clients I’d urge them to steer clear of any conversations with Berroa outside of the shower area where body wires are hard to hide.
Who’s older?
Julio Franco
Angel Berroa
Jaime Moyer?
Well, the Mets don’t have other options.
Berroa played once every three weeks with the Yanks. Maybe he does a bit better seeing more action.
It is odd how the only thing Minaya has done is swap Church for Francoeur.
Isn’t Franco 50?
“Julio Franco
Angel Berroa
Jaime Moyer”
don’t know.
I do know Julio Franco played in 1983 for the Indians. He was a rookie
I got a big fat 0 on the quiz. And that was with cheating.
Bronx Jeers
July 16th, 2009 at 3:07 pm
I got a big fat 0 on the quiz. And that was with cheating.
==================
You are not a true Yankee fan.
…unless you paid for and joined the Yankee Universe club.
“the Mets will activate Angel Berroa today in Atlanta.”
Presumably with Geritol?
Meanwhile, and I kid you not, the Mets will activate Angel Berroa today in Atlanta.
============================
Desperate times call for desperate measures
Rebecca,
Good question. I think we will have to settle it like they do to find the age of trees. Count the rings:)
“I got a big fat 0 on the quiz.”
I got 2 out 3 and protest the player of the week question because USA Today is more a speed bump outside hotel room doors than an actual newspaper.
Boy mlbtraderumors.com os at it again.
Toronto will take Joba for Halladay.
Angels and Cards will have trouble piecing together an offer.
Phillies can afford the 14.25 mm salary,but Vernon Wells
included is a deal breaker.
It’s getting hot guys!
haiku-man-If Toronto takes Joba for Halladay I will keel over in a dead faint.
Even if Franco is 50 berroa’s gotta be pushing 80!
Give Joba, and Perennial Allstar Duncan for Doc.
I wonder if the kids will attack that?
Jose You and me both for sure.
“Angel Berroa fits the profile of an undercover Federal agent infiltrating MLB, moving from team to team with the acquiescence of front offices around the league who want to show they are free of PEDs and any other baseball sin, venial or mortal. He sure doesn’t merit continued employment based on performance.
If the players were my clients I’d urge them to steer clear of any conversations with Berroa outside of the shower area where body wires are hard to hide.”
reminds me of the lone 30 year old ABC agent trying to get into our fraternity parties back in college…always stuck out like a sore thumb!
haiku-man-That is not a trade rumor, just someone saying that they’d be willing to give up Joba for Halladay.
“Toronto will take Joba for Halladay.”
Didn’t say that. What it said is that one executive said he’d trade Joba to get Halladay but he would not trade Porcello to do so.
Sorry Derek, Mo, Jorge..And Sorry George Stienbrenner
You’ll just have to continue to defy the laws of physics and play like you did in your mid twenties cause age is just a number right?
Cheer up lads, I’m sure you can tough it out for 3 more years while we cultivate the next 19 yr old Messiah.
After all the kids name is JESUS!!
pat
July 16th, 2009 at 3:17 pm
“I got a big fat 0 on the quiz.”
I got 2 out 3 and protest the player of the week question because USA Today is more a speed bump outside hotel room doors than an actual newspaper.
===============
True, but they have pie charts and nice colors.
Steve I’m at work didn’t have time to write eveything,that’s why I put the source for you to do just what you did.
Isn’t there a Berroa monument in the Jackie Robinson Rotunda?
Bronx Jeers
July 16th, 2009 at 3:07 pm
I got a big fat 0 on the quiz. And that was with cheating.
Don’t feel bad. I called Pedro and he didn’t know any of the answers either.
(his business card was on the fridge behind Pete in the video chat – you needed to zoom in real tight to read it )
Joba is done. His hype has run its course and he is a headcase, DUI offender, and rebel. It’s time to maximize his trading value for DOC!!!!
Seb July 16th, 2009 at 3:23 pm
Isn’t there a Berroa monument in the Jackie Robinson Rotunda?
No he isnt a dodger
Isn’t there a Berroa monument in the Jackie Robinson Rotunda?
No he isnt a dodger
—
Well, the Brooklyn Dodgers DID draft him, but he was traded to another team before he made his way up to the big leagues from the minors.
The problem with Montero is that no one knows what is going to happen. If he is the hitter we all suspect then he is a trememdous prospect. If he is the hitter and plays average to above average defense as a Catcher he is beyond measure. A star hitting catcher is a positional advantage in the league and he could be that player for years. Is he? We don’t know. Is there another Yankee Catching prospect that could provide that kind of advantage? Don’t know that either, but maybe.
Persoanlly, I’d rather take Wells, Rios & Halladay and try to not give players named Hughes Joba or Jesus!
Halladay has a 4.46 ERA against the red sox and has a 4.32 era against the angels. So how have you improved your chances to beat the red sox adding Halladay who the red sox and angels can hit.
Watching Joba dominant the red sox on yankee classic on yes. Chamberlain has a 3.49 era against the red sox. People wanting to trade Joba for Halladay are out of there minds. Joba will be the yankees future ace.
Chamberlain >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Porcello
Anyone got ESPN Insider? This is on ESPN.com Headlines:
Rumors: Yankees the only fit for Halladay
Those who continue to bang the Halladay drum at all costs aren’t really looking at the big picture.
The Yanks are not loaded with a ton of position prospects, especially ones who are major league ready or close to it.
The Yanks are not getting any younger. They have an old core. They have FIVE players in their starting lineup who are 34 and up right now (A-Rod, Jeter, Matsui, Damon, and Posada).
Damon and Matsui are certainly going to be gone next season. Posada doesn’t have much time left behind the plate. Pettitte will almost certainly retire at the end of the season.
There’s a good chance that all of these kids will be playing in the bigs next season (Jackson and possibly Montero) and two of them already are (Hughes and Joba).
If you get reckless and trade away some of your best young players, including the organization’s best arm (Joba), best bat (Montero) and best athlete (Jackson) you are relying on a paltry FA market to replace some of the older players who are going to move on.
It would be one thing if the Yanks had a blue chipper third baseman or first baseman in the minors that are stuck behind A-Rod and Teixeira – but they don’t.
They are going to need these kids for themselves and developing your own talent is the way to build a strong young core and continue to compete years after year.
This isn’t the 90s and early 2000s anymore. Superstar players aren’t available now the way they were five years ago. Those days are gone. The FA market for position players has been horrific the last couple of years.
Every team is focusing more on developing their own talent since the steroid era. The Yanks are not the only one.
It would be a huge mistake for the Yanks to gut the farm at this point. I bet Cashman agrees.
the way the mets are NOT catching the ball of late, they can use a former Yankee to improve the team slightly.
“Let me ask you prospect huggers a question?
What if they don’t turn out like you think they are based on your blind faith?”
then we will stand in the closet, take out a revolver, and blow our heads off. Either that, or line-up single file, and pass the kool-aid cup Jim Jones style. I mean if the Yankees don’t win a world series soon, there will be no point in living right? What else could matter in life
seriously, then we will have fun finding out, by watching them play every day. The same as we did last year with the young players – and this year. Much more fun/exciting, then watching a rotisserie of established veteran mercenaries (to paraphrase my friend Richie) take the field every day.
The Fair Pol-IDK, if they wanted a veteran why not just rehure Ted Williams? He’s younger and probably better than Berroa now.
vinny-b: If we start a ten year championship dynasty with only free agents, I wouldn’t care.
But I will join the keep montero campaign.
rehure is rehire.
a rotisserie of established veteran mercenaries, who already achieved their sucess with past assorted teams
One of the silliest parts of this Halliday trade talk is the straw man argument that some yankee fans aren’t really interested in winning but are instead more interested in developing prospects.
The question people are debating is what is the best way to win? That’s the debate.
And I find this particularly amusing because it’s the same ridiculous rhetoric we heard that during the Santana trade. Exactly the same.
The same straw man was foisted up last time as well. Anyone who wasn’t whole hog enamored with the starry idea of trading for an “ace” who would of course absolutely lock down world series number 27 simply wasn’t interested in winning.
And you know what – NOT trading for Santana is a critical reason fro why the Yankees are winning NOW.
False dichotomies aren’t compelling arguments
I found it more fun going to the postseaon every year and hoping we had a chance than watching young players in september and realizing that the season was over.
Saw the quote below on metsblog about somebody trying to raise money and awareness for a good cause.
Good cause and awareness aside, I had to laugh:
“For every home run the Mets hit this season, I will be donating $5 to the ACS.”
Good luck to you.
If you went with every time Wright Ks or Ollie walks the bases loaded, you’d donate 50 cents, you might be in a better position at the end of the season.
Actually, this is a better ploy than I thought. I feel sorry for the guy and want to help out…
CB-you’re right, EVERYBODY here wants the Yankees to win, the question is that is the best way to keep prospects or go out for Halladay?
wouldn’t mind seeing Roy Halladay go to the cardinals.
apparently he is from Colorado. Wouldn’t be too far away
That headline is based on IF the Blue Jays insist on linking Halladay with Vernon Wells. If the Yanks even considered doing that I bet they would insist Toronto take Swisher and maybe Igawa in the package to offset some of the $$$$.
Rios is a better contract to absorb because he’s younger and cheaper and a true RF, but I’m sure Toronto is a lot less interested in moving him.
“Anyone got ESPN Insider? This is on ESPN.com Headlines:
Rumors: Yankees the only fit for Halladay”
I am. It said Yankees are only fit if Riccardi insists that Wells contract be taken on as part of the package.
NickSwisher come on down to empire st bldg AT&T store. here till 6 pm
3 minutes ago from mobile web
I was one of those people who didn’t want to trade for Santana.
I have no doubt that Cashman is glad he didn’t pull the trigger on that deal.
Sabathia and Hughes >>> Santana
“Anyone got ESPN Insider? This is on ESPN.com Headlines:
Rumors: Yankees the only fit for Halladay”
Misleading headline. It references the Newsday article that says the Yankees should offer to take on Vernon Wells contract along with Halladay.
CB.
I am going to take a guess here and say that the straw man you referenced; looks, talks and thinks like the scarecrow on the Wizard of Oz..
Wait till they come to OUR house AGAIN.
Not everyone here wants the Yankees to win…My self included.
-dennis
Kei Igawa is the answer to all the Yankee pitching problems.
Drop the Halladay idea.
“CB-you’re right, EVERYBODY here wants the Yankees to win, the question is that is the best way to keep prospects or go out for Halladay?”
This is the never-answered question, as it is impossible to actually see both outcomes…
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/swe.....kees-.html
Interssting, but they better not lose Montero.
Franco:
I believe you’re right.
that said, if Santana finishes the season strong in 2007 and is throwing his slider with the same frequency, Cashman makes that trade.
“And you know what – NOT trading for Santana is a critical reason fro why the Yankees are winning NOW.’
Excellent.
Did you get a chance to see my post (a couple weeks ago) on how the Santana trade looks so different now than it did last year?
Chris:
Insider column tells us nothing new
“If the Toronto Blue Jays stick to their guns and insist that any taker for ace right-hander Roy Halladay also accepts outfielder Vernon Wells in the deal, the New York Yankees may be the only fit, says Newsday’s Anthony Rieber. He cites the Bronx Bombers’ ability to absorb Wells’ contract that runs through 2014. Wells is hitting just .263 with nine home runs and a .312 on-base percentage this season and will make $99.25 million between now and the end of his current pact.
Yankees GM Brian Cashman is mum on Halladay, noting baseball’s tampering policy. But we know that if a good player is on the market, the Yankees are interested.
The Philadelphia Phillies are not out of the market for Halladay after signing Pedro Martinez, GM Ruben Amaro Jr. said. ‘
Anyone that takes on Wells contract is making an incredibly bad decision IMO, it’d completley negate the benefits of Halladay.
I got all 3 questions about a minute too late
Hokiehill-Exactly. And that’s what we’re debating.
dennis-I’m referring to those who aren’t OUTSIDERS…
“Misleading headline. It references the Newsday article that says the Yankees should offer to take on Vernon Wells contract along with Halladay.”
HAHAHAHAHAHA !!! LOL HAHAHAHAHAHAHA LOL !
People are giving up on Sanatana way too quickly. He started the season otherworldly and I expect him toend it that way as well. He’s just a little bit of a rough patch in the middle (hardly even a rough patch, really).
That “rumor” links to a story that is pure speculation. It suggests the Yankees take back Wells, calling him one of the best five CF in baseball. Sure, if you discount about 15 other guys.
Billy Wagner getting a pass for his comments. Just sayin
Billy bein Billy
Somebody tickling you Brandon???
There’s also this (reposted):
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/swe.....kees-.html
Wait till they come to OUR house AGAIN July 16th, 2009 at 3:52 pm
People are giving up on Sanatana way too quickly. He started the season otherworldly and I expect him toend it that way as well. He’s just a little bit of a rough patch in the middle (hardly even a rough patch, really).
————–
Nobody is giving up on Santana. But he’s undoubtedly declined a bit in the last two years.
And anyways you cut it, having both Sabathia and Hughes makes this team much better than having Santana alone.
If the Yankees made Montero available, they would not have to trade Hughes, Joba and possibly AJAX. I wouldn’t exactly equate dealing Montero with ‘gutting’ the farm. Romine and Cervelli are right there with Jesus.
Has Anyone Been to Foley’s I know Pete is a fan.
Anyone else have comments?
Cashman’s favorite word is “process” and Omar Minaya’s favorite word is “progressing” (regarding the injuries).
Sucks for the Mets about Fernando Martinez, heard on WFAN that he had surgery and is out 6-8 weeks.
Franco … if you dont want the Yankees to break the bank on Halladay, fine. But we are still short in the rotation right now and with the innings limit with Joba (I still maintain that when he gets to around 120 innings you will see him moved back into the pen), come mid-August who is in the rotation behind CC, AJ, and Andy?
Wang is persona non grata, Joba will be back in the pen, Hughes is likely to stay in the pen for the rest of the year … so who is it?
Franco-I agree, I’m glad we didn’t get him.
But I don’t think he’s “declining”. He could easily have won Cy Young last year.
is it just me or was joba even bigger last year?
That was Rieber with the Wells proposal, which is ludicrous.
Wells just makes the cut for one of the Top 5 center fielders in the AL East.
“Sucks for the Mets about Fernando Martinez, heard on WFAN that he had surgery and is out 6-8 weeks.”
On the bright side, this should help the Mets team batting average.
Bret the Hitman-Romine and Cervelli are not even in the same STRATOSPHERE as Montero, especially not Cervelli. Montero as a hitter is head and shoulders above everybody in the whole organization.
disco stu July 16th, 2009 at 3:55 pm
Franco … if you dont want the Yankees to break the bank on Halladay, fine. But we are still short in the rotation right now and with the innings limit with Joba (I still maintain that when he gets to around 120 innings you will see him moved back into the pen), come mid-August who is in the rotation behind CC, AJ, and Andy?
Wang is persona non grata, Joba will be back in the pen, Hughes is likely to stay in the pen for the rest of the year … so who is it?
—————
I didn’t say they shouldn’t fine a reliable arm for the rotation.
I just don’t think they have to have Roy Halladay or the Yanks are doomed.
Santana’s numbers make it look like his best years are behind him.
Both WHIP and walks are up; and SO/BB is way down.
http://www.baseball-reference......jo02.shtml
Peter, why such hate for Berroa? Do you know something about the guy that we dont? Whe the Unprovoked attack?
Wait stop trying to make sense of The Hitman’s post, he hasn’t been excellent.
Rebecca-I know that. But there was a time last year when Santana was (rather ludicrously) criticized.
He started off the year insane, dropped to only very, very good and then went back to insane again at the end of the season. I’m guessing he does that this year.
“Bret the Hitman-Romine and Cervelli are not even in the same STRATOSPHERE as Montero, especially not Cervelli. Montero as a hitter is head and shoulders above everybody in the whole organization.”
Grouping Romine and Cervelli together is probably not a great idea, ever.
Romine might not be Montero with the bat but he, IIRC, profiles as a potential starting catcher–Cervelli, for now most thing he will end up a back up (albeit one with the best eyes in the majors)
Ralphie-
Joba was bigger last year
wells always hits against the yankees.
“Romine and Cervelli are right there with Jesus”
no they’re not. Jesus is on a different field trip, with a different school
“Peter, why such hate for Berroa?”
He hates that old people get the good parking spaces.
He’s just messing around, Todd. Berroa’s age has been a running joke with Pete most of the season.
“he hasn’t been excellent.”
You mean he hasn’t been (clears throat), “AWESOME!”
I just had to say that. I’m sorry.
I’d take Berroa over Cody Ransom.
The fact the Ransom is still on the Yanks’ 25-man roster is nothing short of dereliction of duty on Cashman’s part.
Wait:
I dunno… 6.19 ERA in the month of June, and a WHIP over 1.5 is probably not a good sign.
http://www.baseball-reference......;t=p#month
“Franco … if you dont want the Yankees to break the bank on Halladay, fine. But we are still short in the rotation right now and with the innings limit with Joba (I still maintain that when he gets to around 120 innings you will see him moved back into the pen), come mid-August who is in the rotation behind CC, AJ, and Andy?
Wang is persona non grata, Joba will be back in the pen, Hughes is likely to stay in the pen for the rest of the year … so who is it?”
I’d inquire about Brian Bannister of the Royals.
He’s 6-7 3.66era but he’s able go the distance in games and he’s pitched well enough to win in most of his starts. The Royals defense and offense have kind of skewed his numbers a little bit.
“Wait stop trying to make sense of The Hitman’s post, he hasn’t been excellent.”
don’t forget that HBK kicked his head once too many times.
REbecca-Yes, exactly.
But with the bat he is no Montero!
BTW w/ F-Mart out for the season does that mean Berroa goes back to playing CF ?
watching joba dominate the sox in the 7th inning in fenway….i just cant give up on this guy no matter how bad hes been…he should go in the video room and watch how he pitched that game…he made youk and lowell look stupid on sliders in the dirt
Lowercase e in Rebecca.
“don’t forget that HBK kicked his head once too many times. ”
Exactly.
Rebecca-Numbers are skewed by us whupping on him for 9 runs.
http://www.baseball-reference......;year=2009
The Yankees always smash Bannister.
“he made youk and lowell look stupid on sliders in the dirt”
That’s been one of Joba’s problems. Nobody swings at his slider anymore because it’s never a strike. One game he threw it for strikes was against Boston this year and they still wouldn’t swing at it….but he struck out 9 guys looking.
That game he pitched vs. Beckett was a masterpiece.
“The Yankees always smash Bannister.”
He wouldn’t be facing us.
In his last start against Boston, he went 7.2 innings, gave up one 1 run and lost.
E-gawa: You’re right, just saying.
Maybe I’m wrong but didn’t we face him when Damon went 6-6?
Its a 3 team race, Bos NY TB. Unreal. This is why Cashman must get busy. Its gonna cost us some good prospects.
“In his last start against Boston, he went 7.2 innings, gave up one 1 run and lost.”
the 2008 Matt Cain feels his pain.
Bannister is not some kind of miracle worker but he would be a big improvement in the back of the rotation, regardless of his numbers against the Yankees in his career. Especially if Wang is not going to come back and/or Pettitte and Joba keep struggling.
The problem is that KC has him cost-controlled, so they may not want to trade him unless they are getting a real above-average return. But, the Yankees have so many pitching prospects that they should hopefully be able to offer something that interests Dayton Moore.
Woe is me.
Alas I’m going to miss 7 days of Yanks becasue I’m goin up to Sox country for the weekend. My Bud does not even have TV hookup.
I’ll only hear a Yanks score if they lose.
“E-gawa: You’re right, just saying.
Maybe I’m wrong but didn’t we face him when Damon went 6-6?”
Yeah same guy.
“Maybe I’m wrong but didn’t we face him when Damon went 6-6?”
That was a classic game!!
http://deadspin.com/5316222/it.....ore-advice
this is amusing
Just heard a rumor of Halladay to NY and got excited
never true those rumors
I told all of the Mets fans in my office that they will be soon witnessing the baseball wizardry of Angel Berroa. They are very excited
The Boss was spotted at work today for 3 hours. Wonder if he was analyzing his Halladay budget…
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/ne.....;type=lgns
ugh they are showing Jobas great game last year at Fenway on YES.
i understand that Joba is still very young and therefore have his ups and downs as a starter but i wanna see him grow and improve as a starter. im tired of the same 5inning act every 5th day.
Al:
With Halladay keep in mind that it will be a little like Manny and thus extremely, extremely unlikely he gets dealt before the last minute of the deadline.
What about this?
http://deadspin.com/5313428/me.....tten-apple
The Mets apple takes minutes to come up after back-to-back HRs
Wells has hit .177 in Toronto this year & .333 everywhere else. His speed is back and he is a former 3 consecutive time Gold Glove CF. He is on pace to hit 18 HR & 78 RBIs & 106 Runs scored along with over 25 SB. That isn’t bad. He had a slow start and missed several games due to a leg injury. The last 2 years he has been injured as well including a broken wrist of which he came back too early and it hampered him. He still maintained consistent numbers but below the 30+ HR 100+ RBI that he had before. But if you translated his missed time to a normal 160 games he would be close to that as well. He always hit well in Yankee stadium. I think he is coming to NY with Halladay to play for the Yankees real soon.
The only other team I believe that is a real player is SF, because they need a hitter, probably more than they need Halladay. Of course Boston could be in play, but with the contracts from Lugo, Dice-K, & Lowell not providing results Wells & Halladay might hamper them much more than help them.
“I told all of the Mets fans in my office that they will be soon witnessing the baseball wizardry of Angel Berroa. They are very excited”
Hey atleast he’s a sure bet to finish the season. Berroa hasn’t missed a game since his then friend Chris discovered America.
Now I can’t even find Wagner’s
“I’m not going to hurry back for them” comments which Joe and Evan just dismissed
No way do I see the Yankees taking Wells. For a lot less money and the numbers that Wells is putting up we can have Swisher.
“What about this?
http://deadspin.com/5313428/me.....tten-apple
The Mets apple takes minutes to come up after back-to-back HRs”
What’s the likelihood the Mets hit back-to-back HRs again this season?
http://tinyurl.com/kr9z3s
“They need a center fielder and could negotiate a deal with injured outfielder Coco Crisp or look for one in a trade. They’re not expected to pick up Crisp’s $8MM option for 2010, but remain open to a new deal with him.”
So, don’t you think that the Royals would be interested in one out of Melky/Gardner in exchange for Bannister? I don’t know if that’s enough one-for-one, but I mean that’s at least worth a shot isn’t it?
The Yankees went into the season with 6 starters: CC, Wang, Burnett, Joba, Pettitte, and Hughes.
Wang is hurt. Hughes was supposed to be the guy to step in for any injuries.
It really seems like all the Yankees planning fell apart when Joba got hurt in that game and Wang was called up instead of making his last rehab start. They had to keep Hughes in the bullpen because they didn’t know if Wang could pitch. Now the Yankees need another starter and Hughes isn’t available because of the way the Yankees mismanaged this situation.
Hughes should be starting. He’s the best available option to help the team and he would be helping his development as well.
sergio mitre will help the Yanks bigtime as their 5th starter
When Omar Minaya was a boy, he would sit on Angel Berroa’s knee and Angel would tell him baseball stories from the good old days!
or, toronto can have mitre and aceves + many minor leaguers for halladay
A lot of blame goes to Cashman for starting the chain of events that began with his mishandling of Wang’s rehab in the offseason. It was a domino effect, losing vintage Wang has been the biggest culprit in the pitching issues the Yankees have had this year.
I think a healthy Marte can be a big help to the bullpen……but let’s see if his rehab progresses well.
By the way, we all want to see the Yankees win and do well. There are legitimate arguments to be made for going after or not going after Halladay, but being on one side or the other does not make you any more or less of a fan.
I’m not a big fan of Bannister…the Yankees have hit him hard in the past.
His last start in Boston certainly impressed, but I kind of need to see more.
“A lot of blame goes to Cashman for starting the chain of events that began with his mishandling of Wang’s rehab in the offseason. It was a domino effect, losing vintage Wang has been the biggest culprit in the pitching issues the Yankees have had this year.”
While I don’t think you can blame Cashman directly for the mishandling of Chien Ming Wang’s original rehab, that Wang was as ineffective as he was at the beginning of the year has got to be considered the ultimate culprit in what set everything off.
to toronto: aceves, mitre, (toronto gets 2 pitchers who can pitch in their rotation NOW) + a catching prospect, another prospect pitcher in AA, and AJax
to NYY; Doc Halladay
Very fair
#4-5 starter is pretty much Bannister’s ceiling but he has at least shown he can be a decent one in the majors in his career. Yankees have hit him hard because they’re one of the best offensive teams in the league and have been for years, not exactly a total indictment of his abilities. He would not be a huge-impact acquisition but if KC is in need of a CF, the Yankees could sell high on one of the two guys they have since they are both 4th OFers enjoying good seasons. The key is selling KC on one of them and convincing them that playing every day won’t overexpose them.
Mr. Ed ?
If you seriously think trading 4 prospects for Roy Halladay is going to set the organization back 10 years, as some of you Nostradamus’ seem to think, then I can’t argue with you.
Every year there will be an influx of new prospects and each time you have the chance of finding that diamond in the rough.
I’m not advocating trading Montero in any day, but Joba or Hughes, plus Ajax and Romine and another prospect is not going to kill this franchise.
You can tell yourself it will, but it won’t. Cashman will find replacements in the draft, international signings and in other ways. That’s his job.
Unless we’re sitting here saying he will never find another useful player and the one’s we have right now we must cling to out of fear of death.
I didn’t enjoy last season. I didn’t enjoy watching Hughes and Kennedy get their lunch handed to them and then having to watch the likes of Ponson and Rasner flop around on the mound.
That was horrible.
I like when we have a winning team and you bring up a kid like Pena and Cervelli who prove useful and help the team win.
Watching a team of amateurs take their lumps? That doesn’t fly here in NY. It never did and if you say it did, you’re lying.
I understand not needing all stars at every position and all I say to that is we don’t have one at every position. We only had 3 this year.
The Yankees need a starting pitcher. They have a chance to win the division and the title this year. I go for it because in 2011 when all these little nuts you protect to crack, we’ll have 2009 and 2010 when the team put out one of the best rotations in baseball.
I’d rather watch that.
Cervelli and Romine are ‘right there’ with Montero as in, they are not far behind him in reaching the majors. G. Franco made it sound like trading Montero would leave a black hole at the catching position. It wouldn’t. We would not have to go out there and buy a catcher on the free agent market if we traded Montero, not with Cervelli + Romine in the organization.
And I maintain that trading Montero would possibly allow the Yankees to keep both Joba + Phil + maybe even AJAX.
“I didn’t enjoy last season. I didn’t enjoy watching Hughes and Kennedy get their lunch handed to them and then having to watch the likes of Ponson and Rasner flop around on the mound.
That was horrible. ”
Couple of points to counter:
Hughes seems to have found his stride this season.
Kennedy’s been hurt and at least one of Ponson and Rasner would have never made an appearance if Wang hadn’t gotten hurt.
You know it’s funny it’s usually the old guard fans that want these moves..but it gets us nowhere, hence why I rather keep my farmsystem.
# Rebecca–Optimist Prime–Montero Fanaticus Primus July 16th, 2009 at 4:31 pm
“A lot of blame goes to Cashman for starting the chain of events that began with his mishandling of Wang’s rehab in the offseason. It was a domino effect, losing vintage Wang has been the biggest culprit in the pitching issues the Yankees have had this year.”
While I don’t think you can blame Cashman directly for the mishandling of Chien Ming Wang’s original rehab, that Wang was as ineffective as he was at the beginning of the year has got to be considered the ultimate culprit in what set everything off.
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The Yankee organization badly mishandled the Wang situation in many ways such as bringing him up too early and then letting him rot in the bullpen in what was a major panic move. Wang could have done better, but if he didn’t have any lower body drive on his pitches, he was going to get hammered, and that’s exactly what happened.
We saw the improvement once he was able to get a few games under his belt. I hope they are able to send him to rehab starts in AAA properly this time and he’s back in good form by mid-August.
Like I’ve always said, if the Yanks get vintage Wang back in mid-August, it’s like making a midseason trade for an ace at zero cost.
A healthy and effective Wang will help the Yanks regain their mojo in their stretch run heading to the playoffs.
the yanks are not taking vernon wells contract back you are dreaming. if the numbers i read here are correct that is about a $90 mill. mistake it makes the pavano mistake look like a rounding error..
the yanks can get halladay without trading jackson and montero but trade joba, romine, and a few other 2nd tier pieces. i would take back rios and his contract but not wells for any possible reason….
at least we don’t have to face berroa until next years subway series. phewww.
newsflash::::::::::::::::bannister stinks ,he throws junk, and is not worth either of the yanks centerfielders….
what are you smoking???????????????
If they want us to take Wells, I’d dump a can of Arod on their crazy faces. Both contracts suck.
“Cervelli and Romine are ‘right there’ with Montero as in, they are not far behind him in reaching the majors”
Actually, not at all.
Cervelli’s the closest to ML ready, as he’s shown, but his bat right now could only carry a back up position.
Romine is still in high A, and making the jump from high A to AA is IIRC the hardest jump to make besides AAA to the majors–there’s no guarantee that Romine can adjust.
Meanwhile Montero is NINETEEN, the youngest active player in all of AA, and doing more than merely holding his weight.
To put that in perspective, the Yankees have an IFA guy in the GCL–the lowest level, rookie league, of the Yanks’ system–Kelvin DeLeon, who you could argue is raking, minus a crazy bad strike out total (think Ryan Howard with a decent BA here).
DeLeon is less than a year younger than Montero.
That’s how young Montero is. At nineteen he should either be in short season or maybe low A. Being 19 and in AA is just insane.
“Cervelli and Romine are ‘right there’ with Montero as in, they are not far behind him in reaching the majors”
Actually, not at all.
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Um, yes.
Rebecca,
Regardless of what Hughes has done in the pen this season and in the starts where he was good, he’s still not good enough to squash a Halladay trade.
Neither is Joba.
Talent for talent, Halladay dwarfs them both straight up.
When you add in the other pieces needed for the trade, which none of us know who they would need to be, as long as Montero isn’t in the mix we can replace whatever we have to give up.
It could be 3 players total. It could be 4.
The idea that we can get Halladay and still keep one of Joba/Hughes and Montero is good enough for me to risk whoever else they have to in order to acquire him.
If Montero is a deal breaker, then no deal in my opinion.
But I don’t think he will have to be in a deal if it includes one of Joba or Phil.
I said it yesterday and I will say it again. Montero is expendable. He’s to big and slow to play Catcher his entire career. We don’t need another 1B/DH guy. You can talk about bats all you want. What did Giambi and Arod get us? Do you think Jesus is going to carry us to the playoffs when he gets called up. Pitching wins championships. Doc, CC, AJ, Pettitte, (Hughes,joba,wang)….its over.
I have to say that the Yankees this year really do seem to be doing A LOT better in terms of getting involved with the community and the fans. I really like reading that they are doing things like the below
http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com.....8;c_id=nyy
“I said it yesterday and I will say it again. Montero is expendable. He’s to big and slow to play Catcher his entire career. We don’t need another 1B/DH guy. You can talk about bats all you want. What did Giambi and Arod get us? Do you think Jesus is going to carry us to the playoffs when he gets called up. Pitching wins championships. Doc, CC, AJ, Pettitte, (Hughes,joba,wang)….its over.”
thank you Mr. #1 scout!…sure, hes a really big dude and prbly wont be able to catch forever but whos to say for sure…hes only 19 and a lot can change in the next few years…even if he has to move to dh or rf…whats wrong with a power hitting young stud? ryan braun is a brutal left fielder but nobody cares cause hes young and he can hit
stuart the guy definitely doesn’t just flat-out stink, his career ERA is a decent 4.57 and 95% of it has been spent in the AL. It’s particularly inflated because he got ripped a lot last year, but there is enough sample size since ’07 to show that his performance last year was abnormally bad. Plus he can give you innings, as even when he was struggling in ’08 he threw 180+ innings. It’s just a suggestion bro.
I still don’t want Halladay for the price we’d have to pay and I still don’t think Cashman will get him.
If Halladay was a free agent right now I’d love to have him. Unfortunately, he’s not a free agent and would cost a lot in prospects to get.
It’s the same situation when Santana was traded. Cashman WILL NOT mortgage the future to get an aging ace. Everyone thought Santana (who is younger than Halladay) would be an ace in the NL for many years to come. He was practically voted Cy Young before the 2008 season even started.
Unfortunately there is some evidence that Santana is already in decline. His K/9 in 2008 was 7.91, his lowest since 2001. So far this year it’s gone up but still not even close to the K/9 he put up while with the Twins.
It’s the same story when looking at BB/9, AVG against, WHIP, FIP, etc. Since going to the mets, all of these stats have gotten worse. There is a clear downward trend in performance.
And here’s the real killer. This year Santana averages 90.8 MPH on his fastball. Back in 2006 he averaged 93.1 MPH. Another thing that pops out is how few sliders he throws. Back in his heyday with Minnesota he threw the slider 16-19% of the time. This year that’s down to 9.2%. Why? Because it puts strain on his arm and he can’t handle it anymore.
My point with all of this is as good as Halladay looks now, you never know when he will start to decline. Chances are, at age 32, it will be soon.
Keeping in mind that kind of risk, it’s not worth it to trade high-end, cost-controlled, YOUNG talent. Not only are you losing guys that should be entering their prime soon, you are upping the payroll and possibly getting stuck with a declining pitcher.
26 hours until Yankee baseball!!!!
Patrick the Prospect Hugger: I could hug you.
Well written.
nn