Dustin Nippert? Yep, Dustin Nippert
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Jul 22, 2009 
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another great day to be a Yankee fan. I just hope Boston doesn’t get desperate and trade for Halladay.
Well, it is not just Rex Sox….
As I said so many times, we will finish with the best record in baseball in the regular season.
agreed with Jeff NJ.
that really is the worst part.
Dustin Nippert just emasculated the Sox offense.
sad day for Sox Nation.
Rooting for Rays to overtake Sox for WC
Well, if Halladay goes to the Red Sox, he would still have to face those Yankee hitters that he mentioned…
Amazing that there was a suicide squeeze at Texas in the summer.
Dustin Nippert…YEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAH
It was quite satisfying to watch the Red Sox lose. Go Yanks!
weren’t the Yankees 3 games back a week ago?
THE STARS AT NIGHT ARE BIG IN BRIGHT…
Dustin NIP’s BOSTON IN THE BUD:
Brandon, I LOVED Major League ………
2 games up? LOL The Yankees, by the way, have a very good record against the Rangers. The Sox? Not so much…….
Last time we had a 2 game lead, we got swept by Boston. I’m not about to underrate the A’s – any team is dangerous. That said, 2 game lead is very sweet. Wow – the Yanks made up 5 games on the Sox in 6 games – that’s incredible.
The Yankees can not let the Sox get Halladay…..
Theo might reconsider offering Buchholz for Halladay now. The Sox pitching is thin.
They Sox need a bat
The***
Betsy, dont worry you know cashman is a thief in the night. He always has something up his sleeve.
The only downside is that now you know the Sox will try their hardest to make a big move at the deadline. They are in a swoon, their offense is sputtering, and their rotation is weak after the top 2 now.
They have the prospects and the desire. They’ve been flirting with some big names for a while. Wouldn’t shock me if Theo gets serious in these next 2 weeks.
“Theo might reconsider offering Buchholz for Halladay now. The Sox pitching is thin.”
——–
yeah, and Toronto might reconsider taking Buchholz for Halladay
they might want Buchholz and Bard
“Theo might reconsider offering Buchholz for Halladay now. The Sox pitching is thin.”
LOL yeh JP is going to give him away for that…LOL
“Rooting for Rays to overtake Sox for WC”
I wouldn’t be. The Rays are the better (and more dangerous) team
The Red Sox feast on bad teams, can’t beat the elite clubs. haha.
“Last time we had a 2 game lead, we got swept by Boston.”
when was that? last time the yanks played boston they had a 1 game lead and got swept
I agree, the Sox need a bat.
The Jays won’t trade Doc to the Yankees, but they’ll trade him to the Red Sox? Yeah…
If anything, JP would tell the Yankees if they want to block a trade to the Red Sox, then they need to take on Rios, too.
Cashman can’t do anything if the Sox are serious about Halladay
If they offer Buchholz, we are not going to offer Hughes or Joba. We can drive up the price to an extent. If Boston does decide to get serious, there is nothing we can do.
He’s not going to operate his team based on what Boston does.
BWAHAHA.
The RS offense goes to sleep on the road. They’ll get fat at home though.
Someone send Dustin Nippert a fruit basket. It’s well-earned.
“They have the prospects and the desire. They’ve been flirting with some big names for a while. Wouldn’t shock me if Theo gets serious in these next 2 weeks.”
———-
they don’t really have the prospects. I mean, they do have a deep farm system, but I’d be shocked if they dealt Bard.
They overvalue Buchholz so they’ll never feel like they’re getting equal value.
Lars Anderson’s stock has dropped a bit.
Bowden is ok but he’s not an “A-list” guy.
Perhaps they’d move Casey Kelly but I dunno.
Halladay isn’t really a panic move. He’s a great pickup.
I suppose Matt Holliday would be a panic move.
A-Rod gave a quarter of a million bucks to create a Mobile Dental Van for kids in the Washington Heights area.
I can see the Sox going after a Dunn/Nick Johnson type.
We’ll have to wait a bit before we understand how bad the Red Sox slump is. All these losses came on the road against the Jays and Rangers. They have tomorrow off and then play 7 straight against Baltimore and Oakland in Fenway. I anticipate a better week for Boston upcoming.
Doc ain’t going to BOS or NYY
first off the other day the Toronto media leaked the starting point to getting Doc for BOS is
Bucholz
Bard
Youkelis
+ another prospect
If I’m the Yankees I don’t give a damn b/c Doc will hit FA and then if we want to we pick him up. If your Doc you ain’t turning down a contract yr. no one does.
Chris Duncan was acquired by the Sox and assigned to the minors.
“I can see the Sox going after a Dunn/Nick Johnson type.”
———–
well, they kind of handcuffed themselves with the LaRoche deal.
Perhaps they’d give up a package with guys like Bowden, Anderson, Delcarmen, etc for Dunn to play OF but that’s a risky move.
Boston’s pitching doesn’t seem to be the problem right now. Their lineup looks old, slow, creaky, not good, w/e adjective you want to use right now. They just got shut down by Nippert and Doug Mathis. Needless to say, I am stoked. 0-8 record against them or not, the Yanks have a better all around team than the Sox right now. Pitching, hitting, we’re better. It’s our division to lose.
if Boston were to try to land Halladay, i expect Cashman would receive a phone call/chance to better any BoSox package.
whichever the case, you don’t trade Montero. And not Hughes either
“first off the other day the Toronto media leaked the starting point to getting Doc for BOS is
Bucholz
Bard
Youkelis
+ another prospect”
————
hahahahhahahahaha
that’s pretty funny
The Toronto media is setting up the fans for a major disappointment.
If the Rangers can sweep the Red Stockings, then so can we.
By the way, are you guys checking out what the Angels are doing to the Royals? Royals had a 5-2 lead, now it’s 9-6 Angels.
I know the Royals aren’t that good, but the Angels offense is just off the charts right now. No wonder we got swept.
“A-Rod gave a quarter of a million bucks to create a Mobile Dental Van for kids in the Washington Heights area.”
The Heightz have been Arod crazy eversince he went to Caridad’s resteraunt, they have embraced him. He’s finally acknowledging a part of his past to ppl up there.
poor Francona
he’s giving an interview now and forced to talk about how great Nippert did tonight (since he cannot call out his offense on tv)
“solid fastball, good slider, created problems for our guys”
Toronto wants a package from Boston that includes both Bucholtz and Bard. Theo is not going to give up Bard so the deal will not happen.
The yanks already stole Teixeira from the sox. Cashman cant block every player to the red sox like some fans want him to do.
“The Heightz have been Arod crazy eversince he went to Caridad’s resteraunt, they have embraced him. He’s finally acknowledging a part of his past to ppl up there.”
———-
nice to hear.
ARod has held up his end of the bargain so far this year.
The Red Sox have some issues. Here I thought they were team “perfect”.
“Toronto wants a package from Boston that includes both Bucholtz and Bard. Theo is not going to give up Bard so the deal will not happen.”
—————
there is a HUGE difference between what Toronto wants and what they might get.
At the end of the day, Toronto will have to take the most that some other team is willing to give.
If Boston won’t give up Buchholz AND Bard. If the Yanks won’t give up Montero or Hughes or maybe even Joba, if the Phillies wont give up Drabek and more…
then what do the Jays get??
They either keep him or they take the highest offer.
Toronto can demand all they want. They’re not getting it.
Hmmmm, maybe Halladay to SF for Jonathan Sanchez??
Just goes to show you that sometimes an offense can be in such a funk that it doesn’t matter who the opposing pitcher is (IE, Stammen when he faced the Yankees)
It’s nothing more than a small blip on the Red Sox season – the Yankees did a good job taking advantage of it though (obviously).
Remember, for a 24 hour period, it looked like Boston getting Santana was inevitable for the Lester package…. and Cashman didn’t budge.
If Cash isin’t going to trade Joba or Hughes for Doc, why would that change if Boston gets involved? He either values these guys or he doesn’t.
Nick in SF,
that gave me a good chuckle…
I’ll head to bed on that note.
Bucholtz and Bard is not a big package for Halladay. Even if you include Ellsbury who has 41 steals but he’s not a big prospect to me.
A lot of their prospects don’t get me excited.
I guess if I’m Toronto I go with Bucholtz Anderson Masterson Ellsbury
Boston is experiencing what life after Manny is. Now that Jason Bay is no longer playing over his head, and returning to career norms
“Just goes to show you that sometimes an offense can be in such a funk that it doesn’t matter who the opposing pitcher is (IE, Stammen when he faced the Yankees)
It’s nothing more than a small blip on the Red Sox season – the Yankees did a good job taking advantage of it though (obviously).”
——–
well said.
“Perhaps they’d give up a package with guys like Bowden, Anderson, Delcarmen, etc for Dunn to play OF but that’s a risky move”
I wish they would
AJ Burnett.
LAST YEAR 19GS 8-8 with 4.92 era
THIS YEAR 19GS 9-4 with 3.67
Trevor,
what team is going to offer anything close to that package?
Toronto doesn’t get to choose who they get for Halladay. Tehy get to choose the best offer.
big difference.
“Hmmmm, maybe Halladay to SF for Jonathan Sanchez??”
I’ll give you Nick the quick for him right now
This whole Halladay thing is fascinating. Who is going to blink first?
Who is going to panic and give up too much to get what could be a rental? Boston or New York?
It will be interesting to see who gets it done.
My best guess? Boston.
vinny,
I didn’t mean they’d give up all those guys. I could see them putting a package together with a couple guys of that caliber.
but it wouldn’t bother me either
Just got emails from friends a family in St Louis.Thry are happy Chris Duncan is gone.He’s awful in the outfield his routs are bad,and he’s a very streaky at bat.The RS got robbed,I’m lovin it.
“The yanks already stole Teixeira from the sox. Cashman cant block every player to the red sox like some fans want him to do.”
Bingo. If the Sox seriously want someone, we can’t block them. This is different than Teixeria because that was only cash.
Boston used to have two huge, impact, game changing bats. Ortiz and Manny. GUys you were frankly scared to face w anyone on base. Now? They have nobody like that.
Trevor but Jacolby Jesus Ellsbury is the greatest CF of all time, he’s FAST!, FAST I tell you!
Let the Sox get Halladay.
Seriously.
The thing is, they can’t score away from that green craphole. A total of 9 runs in their 5 game losing streak. The last 2 Texas starters were no names, 3 total runs.
Their offense is terrible. The weaknesses were hidden by Youk’s great start and Bay’s huge RBI numbers the first few months.
Look at the trades they made today. Taking on Laroche because they know Lowell is hurting. Paying him over 3 million for the rest of the year. Then trading Lugo for Duncan, sending Duncan to the minors, and EATING Lugo’s salary!
In the words of Banya “That’s gold, Jerry!”
Heyman and Buster Olney both said that Toronto won’t ask a team to take Wells/Rios because it will dilute the overall package they get back and they are interested in the young players they get back more than salary relief.
It was really in response to Rios. Nobody, not even the Yanks will touch Wells’ contract with a 10 foot pole.
“Boston used to have two huge, impact, game changing bats. Ortiz and Manny. GUys you were frankly scared to face w anyone on base. Now? They have nobody like that.”
——-
bingo.
they are a better offense than this but you’re right.
Pedroia and Youk are solid players. Bay is pretty good.
But few teams in history had a 3-4 like Manny and Ortiz (especially while juiced on female fertility drugs.
Pepitone, how is Halladay a rental when he has another year left on his contract?
Rios’ contract isin’t terrible and he is still a good player. Why would the package, in terms of prospects, be less if we take his deal? We’re not doing Toronto a huge favor by taking Rios off their hands, we are taking one of their best players. Wells is a different story.
Has there been any reports that Toronto even wants to get rid of Rios? All the talk has been about Wells.
“Pepitone, how is Halladay a rental when he has another year left on his contract?”
———
1. it would be a 1.3 year rental
2. halladay can demand a trade at the end of this season if traded. if the team doesn’t trade him, he automatically becomes a free agent
haiku-man, how did the red sox get robbed by getting Duncan? Have you watched Lugo play the field. He’s awful!
LaRoche? He’s the best, miggs, the best!
time for you all to decide:
the yanks are rolling right now, but it is clear we are going to have to add another starter.
wang is most likely out for the year, andy isn’t a number 3 anymore, and joba has an innings limit and will be in the pen.
would you do this trade:
indians trade:
cliff lee
carroll
yanks trade:
austin jackson
romine
melancon
zach mcallister
lee isnt an ace, but he is definitely a number 3, and most see him as a number 2.
i would prefer if the indians added a reliever like betencourt or wood, but for reality purposes, let’s say this is the deal…would you do it?
yanks rotation:
cc
aj
lee
andy
assuming joba goes to the pen come playoff/late august time…if wang comes back, he’d be the number 5 until he gets it together. they could also take hughes out of the pen, send him down, bring him up, and have joba in the pen, with hughes in the rotation for the remainder of the season.
bullpen:
joba
hughes
mo
aceves
coke
bruney
marte
so…would you do this trade?
Oh, I wouldn’t sleep on the Boston offense. They were in a funk early in the season, remember? On their west coast trip? Then raced away in the division?
They won’t always slump. And now Papi’s hitting again. He’s up to about .230 or so. (tee hee.)
But Drew won’t be 1 for whatever for much longer.
But I agree, that the Yankees are able to win away from the launchpad while the Sox are having a more difficult time winning away from the sardine can is a very good sign.
Boston Dave 2.0
July 22nd, 2009 at 11:38 pm
“there is a HUGE difference between what Toronto wants and what they might get.
At the end of the day, Toronto will have to take the most that some other team is willing to give.
If Boston won’t give up Buchholz AND Bard. If the Yanks won’t give up Montero or Hughes or maybe even Joba, if the Phillies wont give up Drabek and more…
then what do the Jays get??”
They either keep him or they take the highest offer.
Toronto can demand all they want. They’re not getting it.
——————————-
———————————————–
There are some baseball writers that think Halladay wont get dealt because the jays are asking for a lot. If the jays lower there price on Halladay most likely he will be leaving the al east. If the sox or yanks want Halladay they will have to give a lot more. The ownership group doesn’t want to trade Halladay to the yanks or sox.
“austin jackson
romine
melancon
zach mcallister”
you do not trade a catcher that plays D and hits.
“1. it would be a 1.3 year rental
2. halladay can demand a trade at the end of this season if traded. if the team doesn’t trade him, he automatically becomes a free agent”
Exactly, another words Doc has a ghetto-like baseball opt out.
Y’all are dreaming if you think Doc would approve a trade to the Yankees and decide he wants to leave at the end of the year. Where would he go? Back home to the Rockies?
“would you do this trade:
indians trade:
cliff lee
carroll
yanks trade:
austin jackson
romine
melancon
zach mcallister
lee isnt an ace, but he is definitely a number 3, and most see him as a number 2.
i would prefer if the indians added a reliever like betencourt or wood, but for reality purposes, let’s say this is the deal…would you do it?
yanks rotation:
cc
aj
lee
andy
assuming joba goes to the pen come playoff/late august time…if wang comes back, he’d be the number 5 until he gets it together. they could also take hughes out of the pen, send him down, bring him up, and have joba in the pen, with hughes in the rotation for the remainder of the season.
bullpen:
joba
hughes
mo
aceves
coke
bruney
marte
so…would you do this trade?”
Ummmmm…..no,no,no and no.
Too many reasons to list but….no.
“Rios’ contract isin’t terrible and he is still a good player. Why would the package, in terms of prospects, be less if we take his deal?”
exactly.
it wouldn’t be less. It would take more prospects. Common sense tells you this. No matter what the media “experts” report
Well I hope the RS funk continues for ANOTHER month or two.
“They won’t always slump. And now Papi’s hitting again. He’s up to about .230 or so. ”
Come on Mel.
Papi’s been on a tear and is still batting .228. His OBP is .315.
Papi doesn’t scare me anymore.
ed you have to trade something…with vmart moving to first more often, and probably leaving via free agency or trade soon, it is him or montero…however, montero may end up being a long term dh…it’s a tough call…cervelli should be a solid back up catcher for the yanks, but he isnt a long term starter.
what would you package then? remember, the indians have to accept the offer, so you cant just offer crap.
miggs,
Of course he doesn’t scare anyone. But he’s the only one producing right now. The only runs batted in that I’ve casually observed are off his bat.
I agree with m. It’s great that we’ve made hay against a good and not-so-good team at home since the AS break while the Sox have struggled on the road, but they’ll be back in their friendly sardinefines again and we have many difficult trips coming… Mr. Cashman is a realist, I think.
And I agree with m about Mr. Halladay as well, I don’t think he is going to wave his NTC to ‘go for it’ with a contender only to demand a trade at the end of the season. Especially if he ends up someplace with the resources to give him a nice extension…
….and where would V-Mart play on the Yanks? dont even bother saying catch. don’t get me wrong, I like V-Mart but no place to put him.
we arent getting doc…
…the one good pitcher we can get is lee…the only difference maker for the playoffs and the rest of the season.
he will also be a little bit cheaper in terms of prospects.
what would you guys deal for him? it would probably have to be austin jackson or montero in the deal as the centerpiece…obviously we wouldnt trade joba or hughes in the deal.
ed…i didnt say we are getting vmart.
vmart’s contract ends after next season i believe…
…rumors have been going on about him getting dealt before the deadline…
…therefore it would make sense for them to want one of our promising young catchers in return.
and when i say in return…i mean for cliff lee…and only cliff lee…we arent getting both lee and vmart, nor would that make any sense.
what would you offer for cliff lee?
anything?
Hey, headline at SI.com:
“Red Sox Slide Continues”
And the other day? When Hideki had the walkoff? They had the picture that Pete had up with all the guys around Hideki who had a huge smile.
Don’t we have our very own V-mart at Trenton?
If the red sox are going to make any more trades before the deadline, it will be for a starting shortstop. Enough said. They don’t need pitcher or outfielders. So, you could take out Doc Holladay or Matt Holliday. I just hope they don’t get Adrian Gonzalez, which I highly doubt the padres will trade.
Cliff Lee is pretty close to an ace at this point.
clear cut Cy Young winner last year and great this season.
I certainly wouldn’t insult him by calling him a #3.
he’s a #1 starter for many, if not most, teams in baseball.
the rays havent been doing as well since the ASB either, their offense is sputtering and their sweep on KC was more a sign of how bad the BP in KC is then how the rays are doing.
lets hope the offense is still sleeping when we get there!
Ian wait until you see Duncan play outfield,just wait.This guy has ST Louis thinking that only because his father(Dave) is the pitching coach,and LaRussa must owe him a favoream is he on the t.St Louis is h a p p y he’s gone.The RS didn’t improve their outfield.
dave…
i know he is probably a number 1…but his baa is 280, and his whip is 1.32
i just didnt wanna blow him up too much…how about we meet in the middle and call him a number 2…
but ya, either way, he is a number 1 in baseball no matter what i think, hence the prospect we’d have to deal to get him…
would you deal jackson, romine, melancon, and mcallister for lee?
i believe i would bite the bullet and do it.
Man, these Dodger fans love Manny. It’s kind of unbelievable.
“I just hope they don’t get Adrian Gonzalez, which I highly doubt the padres will trade”
That’s the worst rumor out there, the Pads haven’t even expressed interest in trading him, that all started w/ an article that was then posted on MLBTR.
I don’t think the Yankees have peaked yet.
The Rays were losing all three going into the 8th. And they pulled off another come from behind at Chicago as well. I don’t know how that affects their expected record, but I do know they were pretty close to being 4 more games back.
Ian meant favor, computer has a mind of it’s own
The Yankees should explore trade options for an upgrade in the OF.
haiku-man, I literally don’t know who’s worst fielding the OF Shelley or Chris, both are basically AAAA players.
“would you deal jackson, romine, melancon, and mcallister for lee?
i believe i would bite the bullet and do it.”
———–
wow, that might make my brain explode. tough call.
I realize most people would scoff at that because it’s too much to give up but I’m looking at Cliff Lee the Cy Young winner who is signed cheap through next season. I almost put him on par with someone like Dan Haren.
fair or not, you can’t get those guys cheap.
The Yankees have multiple aging position players. There is no way that I would ever consider trading top prospects for a pitcher.
Did everyone see the Bill James article on steroids?
http://www.actapublications.co.....ids_F2.pdf
I think 2 of the best points are on the last page of the article:
1) You can’t call it cheating if 80% of the players were doing it.
2) It’s not cheating because it’s not clear there was ever a “rule” against it. James argues that an edict from the Commissioner’s office, which was never agreed to by the players (prior to 2002), with no enforcement, isn’t really a “rule” at all.
There’s much more to his argument, including his first point that steroids are going to be looked at much differently in the future than they are now. The whole thing is definitely worth a read.
“The Yankees should explore trade options for an upgrade in the OF.”
There is Lastings in PIT, if not Josh Willingham, Cody Ross or Austin Kearns…it’s not that good of a market for OF.
If the yankees can get lee for much cheaper and keep hallady away from the rs, I say lets do it.
Brandon you are right,I think this was an even swap,with Lugo
and Chris no biggy.
“There is Lastings in PIT, if not Josh Willingham, Cody Ross or Austin Kearns…it’s not that good of a market for OF.”
I want Willingham and Ross. like SJ said earlier, Willingham is still grieving the deaths of his brother and friend. Willingham wouldn’t want to be in NYC right now.
Dustin Nippert… he’s no Al Nipper! And for Halladay, i’m crossing my fingers if he’s traded it would be to st. louis or milwaukee… an NL team that isn’t going to the world series (still think the dodgers and phillies have to be big favorites out of the NL…)
Doesn’t Doc have a no trade clause? Is he really going to want to move from Toronto, going 8IP 2ER and a loss, to 8IP 2ER and still a loss? Boston’s offense is about as pathetic as Toronto’s.
Ed that leaves Lastings, Austin Kearns…or internal options. It won’t be Matt Holladay (he’s a FA this offseason and isn’t big prospect worthy, but this week he’ll be overhyped)
Prediction:
Yankees 3-1 against A’s
Baltimore will take 2-3 from boston. Baltimore just got swept by us so they will go into beantown with an a huge attitude.
I agree that the Red Sox offense isn’t going to be THIS bad all season long, but there’s definitely some concerns there.
1. Ortiz is not fearsome anymore.
2. Lowell and Varitek are aging.
3. Drew was never great to begin with.
4. Pedroia has a nice BA but his power has disappeared.
5. Youkilis is 30 years old and has one season in his career with 100 RBI…to think he would be an MVP contender might have been premature.
6. Bay is an awful breaking ball hitter, and AL pitchers throw more breaking balls than NL pitchers. The league may have adjusted to him just a bit.
turn on ESPN
“Baseball Tonight” is having a fit over the Yankee winning streak and how it hurts Boston.
It hilarious how ESPN doesnt even pretend to be objective.
Brandon, the Yanks might be scouting Ryan Sweeney too since they are scouting the A’s right now. who knows. Only Cashman knows. Acquiring either Ziegler or Sweeney would be awesome.
Well ESPN just called Buccholtz a “deer in headlights”
Loved that one.
Funny thing about the Lugo/Duncan trade… Lugo has a BA around .50 higher than Duncan.
Ken Rosenthal just hedged his talk about Rays doing something major. Says they are “talking about doing something major, but may not do something major.” So it just hot air. lol
Veritek looked pudgy tonight. He looked like he packed on a good number of pounds from when I last saw him.
I think the Sox are kind of between a rock and a hard place.
They have no reason to trade for Halladay or any other starting pitcher because their pitching has been okay, and their offense is the main problem.
But if the Sox want to get a big impact bat (Adrian Gonzalez, Victor Martinez) then I would think Buchholz would have to be part of the deal. And that makes their pitching weaker.
Theo might have to get creative here, because if he wants to upgrade offense without trading Buchholz or Bard (which would hurt the team’s pitching) then he’s going to have to gut the rest of the farm system. Otherwise the best he can get is the LaRoche’s of the world.
They’re eating $13.5 million for Lugo.
That puts a huge smile on my face.
They’re paying the entire contract. Amazing.
at least you admit it would be tough dave…people immediately say no…you have to deal prospects at certain points…the angels failed to do that for many years and now those prospects are busts…and even if they ended up playing decent for them, they missed out on chances to win.
they finally did it with tex.
i think i would do the deal…lee is 31. his deal is 10 mill for next season, a club option i believe.
there is also a possibility of them dealing francisco or a reliever in the deal.
we could add an outfielder like willingham, but i believe he is signed relatively cheap, so i doubt the nats would give him up for cheap…
i think cliff lee is one of the more likely big time players to get traded at the deadline, and im surprised no one at this board is talking about going after him. it is much more realistic than any doc deal.
jackson, romine, melancon, mcallister for lee?
the yanks may be able to keep someone like melancon or mcallister out of the deal, but im assuming the indians arent stupid and want 4 prospects that include an outfielder, a catcher, a reliever, and a starter…i think the indians do this deal and may add someone like francisco or a reliever if we want.
anyone else gonna bite the bullet…cc, aj, lee in the playoffs for this season and next.
When does Buchholz start getting the Joba treatment?
I mean the “well, he has a good ERA and keeps his team in the game, but man, it takes him 90 pitches to get through 4 innings. Put him in the bullpen!!”
Buchholz wasn’t brought up as a reward for doing well in the minors, he was brought up to be showcased. They should’ve dealt him after that first start.
Why is it obvious that the Yankees need another starting pitcher? They are 20 games over rotation with the rotation as is. Can anyone name a better back of the rotation in baseball than we have right now? I can’t.
I don’t see what the issue is. Joba and Andy are fine, just fine.
The Indians may want to have any deal they make contingent on taking Pavano.
I think its telling that Buchholz has been kept hidden for so long.
Sometimes I wish the Yankees would take a gamble on a young pitcher from another organization and hope that they hit the jackpot.
It must be a great feeling to acquire a Jair Jurrjens, Edwin Jackson, or Matt Garza for virtually nothing and then watch them turn into aces while they’re still young and cheap.
But the Yankees can never do something like that because in NY there’s no time to wait for young pitchers to be something special. Only if those pitchers are homegrown, the organization and fans are able to muster up some patience (but even then, not a lot).
M,
Last nite on Baseball Tonight, Gammons vehmently denied Buchholz is being showcased.
hehehehhehe
Sorry, I posted this late and it appeared at the very end of the thread 2 posts ago (I still believe it’s relevant):
TheCro July 22nd, 2009 at 11:45 pm
After reading some of the suggestions and comments about dealing for Roy Halladay AND Alex Rios, I must reiterate some comments that Ray, 86w178 and I were making back on July 14th:
The Blue Jays are committed to ~$81 Million dollars in payroll for 2010.
If the Yankees were to take on Halladay’s 2010 Salary (~$16 Million) and Rios’ 2010 Salary (~$10 Million) that would reduce Toronto’s Payroll for 2010 by $26 Million dollars – or 32% – Instantly!!
Plus – when you factor in that Toronto is still obligated to pay BJ Ryan $10 Million for one last year in 2010 – when that money “comes off the books”, Toronto will have reduced it’s Salary Commitments going into 2011 by 44% (versus it’s current commitment of ~$81 Million going into next year – 2010).
Reducing this payroll is the harsh reality for JP in Toronto.
Remember – we have ~$40 Million coming off our books this year (Damon, Matsui, Nady, Pettite, Molina) – SO – for the same – if not LESS money – we can have Halladay take Pettite’s place in the rotation, Rios take Matsui’s place in the OF, Austin Jackson take Nady’s place in the OF, have Cervelli take Molina’s place as a backup C (or Montero, at the rate he’s going!?!) and maybe we can bring Johnny Damon back on a 2 year deal at ~$7 Million per.
The key here is that this is ALL possible: financially.
We have the deep pockets and Toronto badly needs immediate financial relief (due to Mr. Rogers passing away and his Estate preparing the Team for Sale).
Now, in order to make this somewhat “presentable” to their Fan base, the Jays will have to receive some “prospects” to “sell” to their Fan base as “the future” and that this deal was “worth it”.
However, if we take on so much salary (Halladay and Rios) it only stands to reason that the “Prospects” we would have to include would not be all of our “Blue Chip” Prospects.
So, we could give them a future C (Romine) SS (Pena) and 2 Solid Pitchers (McAllister & Brackman). (Now we might have to up the ante by including Joba and Melky to help Toronto immediately replace Halladay and Rios, but I wouldn’t offer them up right away).
As SJ and others have said, whenever you have a Trade of this potential magnitude, it has to make you feel some pain.
But – if we could add one of the Top 3 SP’s in all of MLB – and obtain a 28 year old, former All Star, everyday corner OF (RF?) – why not do it?
Based on the numbers above, it is possible.
And – if Brian Cashman’s recent examples of deadline savvy and brinksmanship have been any indication (Damon, Teix) – we Yankee Fans just might be a bunch of very “Happy Campers” in a matter of days!!
RS, what did you think Jeff Weaver and Javy Vazquez were? We’ve been through it and decided to start gambling on our own young pitchers. And it’s starting to pay off, big time.
“Why is it obvious that the Yankees need another starting pitcher? They are 20 games over rotation with the rotation as is.”
The current rotation is fine, but that’s assuming everyone stays healthy and effective for the rest of the year.
If Sabathia gets hurt tomorrow, you’re looking at a rotation of Burnett, Joba, Pettitte, Mitre, and Igawa. With Hughes and Ace in the bullpen, there’s just not much depth left.
Personally, I think the Yankees should acquire a #3 type starter (3.80-4.20 ERA) just to give themselves a little insurance. I would definitely not trade Joba, Hughes, or Montero, though, and I’d try to stay away from giving up Austin Jackson.
THeCro
If we do what you’re suggesting, not all of us will be happy campers. We’re already rolling and 20 games over .500 in July without Halladay and Rios, and are more than fine at the front of our rotation.
@ RS
I agree they need to add another starter just for depth. Because there is no other options in triple a with Kennedy being injured and Aceves and Hughes in the bullpen.
Or they can add another quality bullpen arm like Brad Ziegler and then have Aceves as the 6th starter if Mitre doesn’t work out and if there is an injury.
G-C,
if you are fine with andy starting a big game 3 in the playoffs, then i guess you are fine with the rotation.
joba is heading to the pen due to an innings limit before the season ends…likely late august, early september.
wang is hurt and had a set back and has not been good for us anyway, so we arent sure as to what he provides for us in the future.
andy isnt 28 anymore, he is an aged andy who is decent, but i dont want him starting game 3 for me, he can be my 4th starter in the rotation however.
the yanks most likely arent going to stretch hughes out and put him back in the rotation, and even if they do, who knows how well he will pitch.
so just because the yankees are rolling doesnt mean they do not have any flaws. you can always add an arm to the bullpen, but this team definitely needs a starter. an outfield bat would be nice as well, but i think a starter is top priority for the yanks.
I wouldn’t mind acquiring a number three type starter either, but I highly doubt anything like that will be readily available on the market. A 3.80-4.20 ERA starter is tremendously valuable (thats basically what AJ himself is, he’s a tick or so better I’d say); I don’t see anyone out there who fits that bill and would come at a reasonable price.
I never agree with anything Francesa says, but I too would be mildly embarrassed if Halladay was traded to the Yankees. Sabathia, Burnett, and Teix aren’t enough? Give me a break.
Let’s not get too cocky here… I enjoy the recent transpirings as much as anyone, but Boston still has the crown and we have to drive in the stake before they are dead. I do like the fact that we only have 17 losses vs. American League teams other than the Angels and Red Sox and we only have 3 more games left in Fenway this year. But a swoon in July doesn’t mean the sox are going to roll over and play dead.
I also have a very, very hard time believing that Joba is heading to the bullpen because of an innings limit any time soon. If anything, they’ll shut him down altogether and give him a two week blow before September or something like that.
For one, the bullpen doesn’t need any help right now. It’s been tough enough to get anyone outside Hughes and Rivera regular work. Where does Joba fit into the bullpen equation? As the sixth inning man? Really? Do you honestly think Cashman will pull Joba from the rotation so he can be a middle reliever?
I actually think Cashman said earlier this year that Joba would be incapable of pitching out of the bullpen as is. His shoulder injury, which could take him more than a full calendar year to recover from, has made him incapable of revving it up from the get-go. I think we’ve seen the last of young Justin Louis in the bullpen, forever. I don’t see any scenario in which it would happen.
it feels like no one is looking ahead.
our rotation for the playoffs:
cc
aj
andy
who else?
wang just had a set back and was not good before the injury.
joba is headed to the pen because of the innings limit. the yanks arent going to shut him down and then restart him again for the playoffs.
hughes is most likely staying in the pen and even if they do stretch him out to start…what says he will be successful as our number 4 starter?
name me the realistic rotation for the playoffs, and then tell me that this team doesnt need a starter…the only starters i like out there are halladay and lee…we are not getting doc, so that leaves lee.
and dont look at arroyo please.
“But the Yankees can never do something like that because in NY there’s no time to wait for young pitchers to be something special. Only if those pitchers are homegrown, the organization and fans are able to muster up some patience (but even then, not a lot).”
————
well, for one… under what scenario would the Yankees be trading all-star caliber players for young top pitching prospects?
typically that occurs when a team is in rebuilding mode.
Joba or Hughes could be in the playoff rotation, depending on how things play out.
m,
That’s the problem with Boston. They are the ultimate prospect hugging organization.
Buchholtz was brought up to be showcased and they apparently had Victor Martinez in a deal for him if they wanted, but he pitched well enough in his showcase to give them a reason to pause.
Now Buchholtz is Hughes/Kennedy from last season. Every time he starts he goes out there w/the knowledge that the team kept this guy and didn’t land the big fish they needed.
They should have traded him and after tonight’s performance, they still might since the fanbase is going to be going nuts falling 2 back of the Yanks and Victor Martinez sitting there for the taking.
I think he was brought up to be dealt, but I think the prospect huggers in the Sox front office had 2nd thoughts immediately.
It’ll be interesting to see what they do before the deadline.
if the yankees dont care about joba’s innings limit, then fine, he will be in the rotation for the playoffs…but as far as we know, he has an innings limit.
the yanks will not shut down joba for 2-3 weeks and then restart him up…maybe skip a start here or there, give him 7 days in between instead, but im assuming his 140-150 innings limit is currently in place.
Shawn Chacon pitched the best game the Yankees have had out of a starter in the playoffs since 2003 in 2005. I honestly see no reason why Sergio Mitre could not start a game in the playoffs for us. You can win a World Series with a guy who can give you 5-6 quality innings particularly if there is no one in all of baseball capable of matching up better with you.
I feel perfectly comfortable with Andy Pettitte as my number three starter, if it comes to that, given that no one else in the entire American League really has a better number three starter.
@ thisguy
The yanks could swith Joba and Aceves roles they could move Chamberlain back into the bullpen and put Aceves back into the rotation in September when Joba reaches his innings limit.
Having a bullpen in the playoffs of Mariano, Chamberlain and Hughes will really shorten the game. The starters will really have to give you only 6 quality innings.
Again, Cashman basically said earlier this year that he feels Joba is not capable of pitching out of the bullpen.
I think there’s a legitimately better chance Joba sits and watches from the dugout than pitches out of the bullpen. But neither will happen, because I think we should be confident Cashman and Girardi will come up with some creative means to make sure he is starting playoff games for us and simultaneously not destroying his innings limit.
Here’s the problem with the “Yanks need a #3 starter” idea.
There are no #3 starters available. It’s either aces like Halladay and Cliff Lee or it’s back end guys.
A dependable rotation arm is going to cost 2 arms and a leg.
Washburn would fit as a #3 type, but go ask Seattle what they want for him. They’ll ask for Ajax and Montero.
That’s why so many of us advocated trading the prospects for Halladay. He’s better than a 3 and if you have to trade top young guys you might as well get the big fish back.
I still think the Yankees need another arm in the rotation, but I think it’ll be another back end type we end up with.
When you’re 20 games above .500 you look at your needs differently.
“So, we could give them a future C (Romine) SS (Pena) and 2 Solid Pitchers (McAllister & Brackman). (Now we might have to up the ante by including Joba and Melky to help Toronto immediately replace Halladay and Rios, but I wouldn’t offer them up right away).”
————
Joba, Romine, McAllister, Brackman, Pena, and Melky for Halladay and Rios…
horrible idea, IMO
“Having a bullpen in the playoffs of Mariano, Chamberlain and Hughes will really shorten the game. The starters will really have to give you only 6 quality innings.”
———
sure, but the bullpen is lights out already without Chamberlain.
the Yanks need to do whatever they can so that Joba is starting come playoff time (should they make it)
You need 4 starters in the playoffs.
Anyone who thinks that the Yankees would willing to add both Halladay’s and Rios’s contracts isn’t paying attention to the economic realities of baseball, even for the Yankees. Also, if they raised their payroll to $225 million, they know that they would be guaranteeing the enactment of an even more onerous luxury tax.
“Brandon, the Yanks might be scouting Ryan Sweeney too since they are scouting the A’s right now. who knows. Only Cashman knows. Acquiring either Ziegler or Sweeney would be awesome.”
Sweeney in the COF would be lovely.
Phil:
IF – by the “front” of our rotation, you mean CC & AJ, then you are correct.
However, Joba & Pettite have been very inconsistent so far this Season. I certainly hope that they repeat the success of their most recent starts for the rest of the Season.
But what if they don’t?
Isn’t Joba on a “innings limit” for this Season?
Remember, everybody came into this Season debating whether AJ or Wang was our “#2 Starter”, because Wang “won 19 games 2 years in a row” and was “coming off a minor foot injury”.
As of today, how does that thinking and rhetoric look now?
Wang has been a complete non-entity this Season, and we shouldn’t be counting on anything coming from him for the rest of the year.
And what about our # 5 Starter – who will that be next month, let alone next week?
My point is, this is “Roy-freakin-Halladay” – as an earlier poster put it – one of the BEST Starting Pitchers in all of MLB.
Again, if you look at the number$ in my earlier post, this Trade is possible – without giving up all of our best prospects.
We vastly improve and solidify our Starting Rotation right now – AND – for the next 4-5 years – AND – obtain an everyday RF who was an All Star 2 years ago and still is only 28 years old.
Plus – when you see how the Players and their Contracts and their Dollars all even out by Opening Day of next year – I think it would be worth it – AND – we just might have another Parade in the Canyon of Heroes in between as a result of it!
Come back to us, Cro. They aren’t trading for Halladay.
That’s all nice Cro, Doc will be in the NL by next week.
we arent getting doc.
it isnt happening.
the more realistic option is cliff lee.
joba is at 95 innings so far. 10 more starts gives him about 60 innings.
that is 155 innings…not including the playoffs. he has about 12 starts or so left in the season.
the yanks will have to be very creative to get around that innings limit they were talking about before the season.
cc, aj, andy…and who?
That’s pretty incredible, a pinch-hit GS for Manny on his bobblehead night. Willie Mays never did that!
G. Love,
I think the hiccup was Wakefield’s back. All of a sudden they NEED Penny & Buchholz with Daisuke coming back slowly but surely.
Joba is more than capable of pitching out of the pen again. YES or WCBS mentioned that the mo said, the reason Phil is thriving in the bullpen is because he has accepted the role. many take a move to the bullpen as a demotion, but not Phil. And I think he’s going to be better for it in the long run. If and when he goes back to the bullpen, he’ll take that attack mode attitude with him. He’ll know that he’s a strikeout or a ground ball double play away from getting out of a jam.
I don’t know why, but I was thinking last night that Joba will only go as far as he can take himself.
Everyone is dubbing him a #1 talent, but he’s not ever going to assume that role unless he believes he can. I don’t want to guess at what was going on in that corn-fed head of his the last month, but we saw a different Joba against Detroit. If he brings that attitude every five days, then he can be the #1 pitcher everyone pictures him as.
“obtain an everyday RF who was an All Star 2 years ago and still is only 28 years old.”
——–
I like Rios but the “he was an All-Star in the past” argument doesn’t go very far.
there are tons of players who used to be good. most of them don’t cost half of what Rios is owed.
ack, if and when Phil goes back to the rotation.
if the bluejays are giving away rios, i’d take him…but they arent.
rios went from overrated to underrated in a hurry.
he is a 20/25 guy, who can hit 290.
he is 28 and also has good defense.
i believe he makes 10 mill a yr.
but the blue jays arent going to give him away, especially to the yanks…so forget it.
Here’s what we know about the Yankees plans for the back of the rotation.
1, Joba Chamberlain has an innings limit. No one knows what it is, but there’s know way they are going to let him pitch 200 innings and risk ruining his career.
2, Phil Hughes is currently being used in the bullpen, but is considered a starter down the road. They say that they don’t want to “stretch him out” right now because he’s been so effective in his role as the set up guy.
3, Chien Ming Wang just started a throwing program and it seems the Yankees are counting on him to come back and contribute as a starter. When he came back he had 6 starts, averaging less than 5 innings per start with a 6.43 ERA. Opponents hit .298 against him with a .874 OPS.
4, Alfredo Aceves, like Phil Hughes, has been very impressive in the bullpen. He had 1 start this season against the Twins where he went 3 and a 1/3 innings while giving up 3 runs.
5, Sergio Mitre seems like he’s being used as a stop gap until Wang is ready to return. He was good enough in his first start, getting the Yankees a win. But, he’s never been a good starter and it would be wishful thinking to assume he will be able to give the Yankees a chance to win most of his starts.
I think the solution is pretty simple. Aceves or Hughes need to be stretched out and put in the rotation. The one that stays in the bullpen can be the set up guy. If Bruney, Coke, Marte, etc. can’t get it done Cashman will have to trade for a reliever.
I’m not convinced Joba is back. Detroit is a big swing and miss team and will bail out most pitchers by swinging at trash.
Let’s see what he has in his next start before we all proclaim him back to his old self.
I definitely think it’s all in his head, by the way. The talent is still there, but I think he’s had his head messed up.
It is pretty sobering to realize that he only has about 10-12 starts left before innings limits kick in.
If Phil or Ace aren’t stretched out and are thriving in the pen, who is going into the rotation when he hits his cap?
We need another starter. I think there’s something out there Cash is working on that is way off the grid to address this need.
“if the bluejays are giving away rios, i’d take him…but they arent.”
————-
Rios is owed $60M over the next 5 years (not including the remainder of his 09′ salary)
I wouldn’t take him for a sack of baseballs.
2, Phil Hughes is currently being used in the bullpen, but is considered a starter down the road. They say that they don’t want to “stretch him out” right now because he’s been so effective in his role as the set up guy.
__
Actually, Cashman told Ken Davidoff over the weekend that because the price of trading for a quality starter is so high, if they need help in the rotation, the preferred option would be to shift Hughes or Aceves there.
Joba is on pace for 165 IP this season.
If they can skip 4-5 of his starts, he should be fine to remain a starter all season.
Richie:
With all due respect, I was mocked by some – and even ridiculed by Pete Abe himself – for having the temerity to even suggest that Cashman could – and should – go out and obtain Mark Teixiera after he had just landed CC & AJ.
At that time, I did a similar analysis based on all of the “bad” contracts coming off our books (Giambi, Pavano) as well as others not coming back (Mussina & Andy at ~$10-15 Million).
Remember, Toronto is under pressure to reduce salary. Period. We can accommodate them in doing that. Instantly.
PJ has to be able to “save face” in Toronto and have “something to show for” this deal (in the form of good prospects)if it goes down.
In my opinion, I would make Hughes and Montero untouchable, the rest are fair game.
As long as we don’t increase our 2010 Payroll over our 2009 Payroll, how unfair or unrealistic is that?
And, BTW, I’m sure everybody would agree that the early returns on our “investment” in Tiex have been phenomenal: great glove, very good bat, seemingly a great guy to have in the Clubhouse.
Again, it IS financially possible – and I believe it would be worth it.
I believe Manny drove in almost as many runs in 1 AB tonight as the Sox scored as a team against the Rangers
all series, that is
TheCro,
adding Rios is a liability.
if the Yanks want Halladay, just trade for Halladay.
the idea that they should throw in more so they can add Rios is a bad one, IMO.
If the Jays will take significantly less if the Yanks also take Rios, fine.
I don’t see that as being a realistic possiblity.
TheCro,
I actually don’t think Toronto will trade Halladay w/in the division and at the start of all of this I thought they would.
I think they don’t want to see him succeed that close to home and it also protects the prospects they get in return for him if they aren’t matched up against his new team 19 times a year.
I would trade prospects for Halladay if I were GM because I think a WS title this year trumps prospects potential. If you asked Boston would they rather have Hanley Ramirez or their last WS title with Beckett and Lowell playing key roles they would most certainly take the title.
That said, Toronto, if they trade him, will keep him out of the AL East.
Ooh La La is worth a lot more than a sack of baseballs…
G. Love & no. 27,
I can’t believe I’m going to say this, but of the two, Aceves would have to be the one stretched out. I saw the conservative figure of 28 days to stretch Phil out (which is ridiculous, as if they would let him levitate above 100 pitches anyway) and Aceves much less time. I guess he’s older and his arm is much more durable at this point.
Phil’s found a calling in the 8th (and I truly believe he could close), so as long as it’s temporary he should stay in the bullpen.
Sergio had a decent Yankee debut. We’ve definitely seen worse, so it’ll be interesting to see what he looks like the second time around.
As for Halladay? Nobody should ever be embarrassed that he’s on your staff.
rios is currently having a down year, and no he isnt worth that contract, but he is a solid baseball player.
the yanks can use rios this year, but i dont believe they should go out and get him. they can handle his contract.
at his best he can be good in the 2hole (in the future,) but would likely hit 6th or 7th in our lineup.
if given away, i’d take him, but im not giving anything up for him.
the yanks need a starter, and the realistic option out there is cliff lee. whether or not joba reaches his innings limit…if cliff lee comes at a significant cheaper price than doc, you pull the trigger.
“there are tons of players who used to be good. most of them don’t cost half of what Rios is owed.”
Hey, the Mets are floundering and they just signed a former rookie-of-the-year cheap. Maybe we can trade for him.
“rios is currently having a down year, and no he isnt worth that contract, but he is a solid baseball player.”
————
define solid… .785 OPS (his career avg – though it’s lower the past 2 seasons) ??
that’s the point though. he’s a decent player who is vastly overpaid.
not worth taking that on even for nothing in return.
thisguy,
I agree on Cliff Lee.
I haven’t heard that Cleveland is offering him though.
They can afford to keep him until the offseason unless they are bowled over with an offer.
Boston Dave:
With Damon, Matsui and Nady’s Contracts (~$32 Million) ALL expiring at the end of this Season, who do you see starting in the Yankee OF on Opening Day next year?
That’s why I think Rios would / could be an upgrade / steal if Kevin Long can help him recapture his All Star form.
He’ll hit .280-.290 – he’ll give you 20-25 HR’s – he’ll give you 80-90 RBI’s – he’ll steal 20-25 bases – and he has a canon for an arm.
(NB – I wouldn’t even think about discussing Vernon Wells and his toxic contract).
“Hey, the Mets are floundering and they just signed a former rookie-of-the-year cheap. Maybe we can trade for him.”
Nick no
“As for Halladay? Nobody should ever be embarrassed that he’s on your staff.”
———–
Agreed. that seems ridiculous to me.
if the Sox got him and won the World Series, I don’t think they’d be embarrassed either.
they weren’t embarrassed when they traded garbage for Curt Schilling, were they?
“Boston Dave:
With Damon, Matsui and Nady’s Contracts (~$32 Million) ALL expiring at the end of this Season, who do you see starting in the Yankee OF on Opening Day next year?”
———-
doesn’t matter. that’s not a compelling argument for taking on a horrific contract.
they can play the market in the offseason and you know what? if they decide they want Rios at that time, I am pretty sure Toronto will still be more than happy to get rid of him and his atrocious deal.
http://www.replacementlevel.co.....and_after1
Apr 6 – May 7
Runs Scored: 158
Runs Allowed: 178
PythagenPat Winning Percentage: 0.439
162 Game W-L: 71-91
May 8 – July 22
Runs Scored: 360
Runs Allowed: 271
PythagenPat Winning Percentage: 0.632
162 Game W-L: 102-60
This is why run differential can’t be trusted. Completely different team since May 8th.
“He’ll hit .280-.290 – he’ll give you 20-25 HR’s ”
He’s only hit more than 17HR once in his 6 year career.
Here is his avg season (even though he is trending downward – his last 2 seasons have been below avg):
.285, 16HR, 78RBI, 45 BB, .786OPS
it’s fine. he’s a decent player. If Toronto would pay $20M towards the deal, that’s a different story.
night all…
Halladay or not, it’s great to go to bed with the Yanks on a roll like this and the Sox collapsing.
mlbtraderumors.com
According to Kevin Goldstein of Baseball Prospectus, the Rockies pulled pitching prospect Jhoulys Chacin from his start tonight “as a precaution for possible, future organizational moves.” Chacin tossed one inning for the Double A Tulsa Drillers, tallying just nine pitches.
Chacin, a 21 year-old righty, ranks as the Rockies’ top prospect according to Baseball America. BA wrote in praise of his fastball and changeup in their latest Handbook.
Thinking about a possible Roy Halladay connection? Rockies GM Dan O’Dowd didn’t seem keen on the idea, talking to MLB.com this morning. Elsewhere in the rumor mill, SI.com’s Jon Heyman recently linked Colorado to a slew of relievers (including Chad Qualls and George Sherrill).
Nice article on Hughes.
Don’t read the last line, Brandon.
http://www.newsday.com/sports/.....-1.1320131
“well, for one… under what scenario would the Yankees be trading all-star caliber players for young top pitching prospects?”
I don’t mean they should trade all-star players. The Tigers got Edwin Jackson for Matt Joyce, who I believe is still in AAA. The Rays got Scott Kazmir for Victor Zambrano.
And you basically stated my point…the Yankees never find themselves in a scenario where they can take a risk on a young guy who has always had great stuff but just never put it together. The only players they acquire from other teams are reliable veterans.
My god Yusssssseee… SHUT UP! SHUT UP!, DO YOU WANT TO STAY IN THE BULLPEN!? SHADDUP!
Hey guys, I just got back from the Ranger v Sox game. I was decked out in full Yankee gear sitting right on the Sox dugout haha. My friend has season tickets.
Needless to say, the Sox fans were very obnoxious. They were telling me how Laroche was going to save the season for them. So i let them ramble on.
One of them tried to fight me in the parking lot lol. But during the game, they started chanting, “First is the worst, second is the best” like little school children haha. They stopped after I told them that they were in first for most of the season.
Good times haha
I do recall the Yanks acquiring a young pitcher with great stuff from another organization… but then they just turned him into a right fielder. Tough to develop young pitching in the Bronx.
Cro,
Teix didn’t cost prospects and they were able to sign him without going over last season’s budget. None of the foregoing is operable with regard to trading for Halladay. So the situations are sui generis.
Texas Joe, good story. You should have fought him under the Johnny Oates banner.
As if I did not need any other reasons not to sleep and along comes Dustin Nippert. Oh Mama!
-dennis
“I don’t mean they should trade all-star players. The Tigers got Edwin Jackson for Matt Joyce, who I believe is still in AAA. The Rays got Scott Kazmir for Victor Zambrano.
And you basically stated my point…the Yankees never find themselves in a scenario where they can take a risk on a young guy who has always had great stuff but just never put it together. The only players they acquire from other teams are reliable veterans.”
———–
sure, and the Orioles robbed Seattle for Bedard. There will always be phenominal trades in hindsight.
The only scenario that would find the Yankees in the position to make enough trades where one of them worked out as well as the ones you listed would be full-on rebuilding mode.
that’s just not going to happen.
be happy the Yanks are committed to building a solid farm system and international presence.
I was reading http://wwwsoxandpinstripes.com
They list 20 of the Yankees top prospects,with a scouting write up on each,for all to read.I wonder why? Is someone looking at the Yankee farm,for a trade,perhaps? Uhm….
Richie:
We would be going over our “budget” for the last 2 months of this Season.
But – if you look at my post – we actually would have a LOWER payroll in 2010 if we made the deal I suggested.
If we trade for Halladay / Rios NOW, here’s who would be gone by Opening Day 2010:
Pettite replaced by Halladay
Matsui replaced by Rios
Nady replaced by Austin Jackson
Molina replaced by Cervelli (or Montero)
Damon replaced by Damon at $7 Million per year for 2 years
By my calculations, ~$40 Million comes OFF the payroll and is repalced by salaries totaling ~$37 Million.
PLUS – by taking both Halladay and Rios’ big contracts off their hands, we can protect Hughes and Montero, and satisfy Toronto with some lesser prospects.
Again, the primary motivation for Toronto in dealing Halladay is to dump salary NOW (and hopefully get something decent in return).
The Jays will never admit it, but trading Halladay is a salary dump. If they don’t trade Halladay by the deadline, will they try to move some of their other pieces?
Again, I don’t have the answer to this one, but: with Damon, Matsui and Nady ALL coming off the books at the end of this Season, who do you think will be in the Yankees starting OF on Opening Day, 2010?
If you think they’ll look at FA’s or pull off a Trade, give the names of your suggested / proposed targets.
Cashman has been shrewd in the past, but I really believe this will be his biggest challenge this off season.
Why not Austin Jackson to replace Damon by moving Melky to LF?
m:
You are right, Toronto is getting ready to purge their payroll. (That was the whole point of my original post.
That is why I think we should take advantage of the situation.
Halladay, Wells and Rios tie up almost 50% of their current payroll.
Their other “parts” are pretty reasonably priced.
Who(m) would you go after on their Roster?
Haiku-Man:
SO, would your Opening Day Starting Outfield for the 2010 NY Yankees be:
LF = Melky Cabrera
CF = Austin Jackson
RF = Nick Swisher
With Brett Gardner on the Bench?
The Cro,
I would only do a Halladay/Rios package with lesser prospects and we assume all salaries.
We can’t have Swisher playing RF every day, and Halladay needs no further explanation.
If Sergio doesn’t work out, I prefer moving Aceves back to the rotation over trading for a starter outside the division.
Aceves pitched well when he was in the rotation last season, so I know what he gives us. He gives us more of what he’s giving us now.
Yes, Aceves if valuable in the pen. But we can’t stick our 6th & 7th starters in the pen if there’s a hole in the rotation.
Let mitre or alby do what Aceves is doing now if he goes to the rotation.
I’m not pencilling in Austin Jackson into my starting lineup. If anything, he starts out as the 4th outfielder. I haven’t seen anyone outside this forum project him as a starter next season.
m
Agreed. Give Toronto financial relief, while giving up “lesser” prospects in return.
Totally share your concerns about Swisher as an everyday OF,
As a matter of fact, that’s the problem I see in our OF: I see Melky, Gardner, Swisher and a declining Damon all as good, solid ballplayers, but here is no “Stud OF” who(m) you could pencil into a lineup everyday.
That’s my concern going forward.
And who’s a FA OF this year? Jason Bay? Matt Holliday?
Would they be worth ~$15 Million a year?
At $10-13 Million, Alex Rios is not so bad – and – he could have upside potential for improvement.
I also like your thoughts on the back of the rotation and the bullpen.
TheCro no no no no!!! please NO.Gardner is a must.
Here’s the straw that broke the camel’s back on Chris Duncan,besides his awful OF.He batted .227 May,.224 June,.037
July,ouch!!
My friends in St Louis,are beyond happy,he’s gone. They say nepotism was at play here(favored based on kinship,daddy.)
If Mitre doesn’t workout,he has to be better than Bruney in the pen.LOOK what the pen did for Phil Hughes.
Cash and Hal are on record saying the payroll is too high. We’re not takin on more salary! That’s the way it is, get over it. We’re 20 gms over. Stay the course!
According to the B.GLOBE,Jul 28 is the trade deadline for Halladay.
http://www.nypost.com/seven/07.....180893.htm
A nice Phil Hughes story.
“Cash and Hal are on record saying the payroll is too high. We’re not takin on more salary! That’s the way it is, get over it. We’re 20 gms over. Stay the course!”
Right and stop worrying about freaking Boston. The Yankees need to continue to win series after series and if they do that then they’re in the playoffs.
It bothers me to no end that certain Yankee fans of today now act and sound exactly like pre-2004 Red Sox fans with their paranoia and obsession with the other team. Some of you need to stop being concern about the Yankee players getting their swagger back and get some for yourself.
EY
July 22nd, 2009 at 11:18 pm
Rooting for Rays to overtake Sox for WC
====
Umm…..no. I’m not on board for that, although it’s going to happen, of course.
The Rays are the much more dangerous team. Keep them out.
Doc has a 3 yr contract with an AAV of $13.33m. Meanwhile, he has watched CC and Santana get $22m/AAV. He will be 34 when he becomes an FA. Like Manny, he will be looking for a ‘last big payday’, including the number of years more he wants to pitch. My guess is in the 3/$60m range, or more.
So he will become an FA unless his ‘current’ team matches the numbers he believes he can get. Believe it or not, while the Yankees can afford 1.3 yrs (at $15m/AAV), they can’t afford another 3/$60. They have the dollars, but we already have too much tied into a few players (CC, Tex, AJ, ARod).
They Yankees NEED to have some cheap average/above average players to balance the payroll. It’s why we didn’t get a CFer or more BP help (and the Marte deal may end of being bad).
What the Yankees REALLY need next year/going forward is a big bat at a corner OF. Brett/Melky/Swisher/AJax does NOT a championship OF make. Put a Holliday/Rios/Crawford type in there and it’s a lot more respectable.
Montero may go to the OF after 5 or more years, but the Yanks will do everything possible to keep him a C for as long as possible.
The Yankees infield is set for a while… 2 more years at least (depending on Jeter). Our C is on the farm already (Cervelli, Montero, Romaine). Our Pitching is set with CC, AJ, Hughes, Joba, maybe Wang, and the kids. Our real need for the future is a power bat in the OF.
I’d like to see the yanks take a shot at Rios
so funny that JP wants 130% back if he is to trade to the Yanks, heard it from KLaw on the michael K show
bod…I believe that is beware of what you wish for, no thanks.
All I care about is the Yanks making the playoffs and moving past the 1st round…baby steps, baby steps.
Does anyone else notice that since Hal has been managing partner, the Yankees have been very quiet and then pounce when the time is right.
I would be very suprised if the Yankees don’t have something up thier sleave.
TheCro…
“And who’s a FA OF this year? Jason Bay? Matt Holliday?
Would they be worth ~$15 Million a year?
At $10-13 Million, Alex Rios is not so bad – and – he could have upside potential for improvement.”
At $10-13 Million, Alex Rios would be fine.
Bay will be re-signed by the Sox. They have a ton of money and simply can’t let go of any offensive impact players. I mean, how would the Sox replace Bay’s bat?
I like Holliday, but he’s not worth, nor will he get (in this economy) $15m. Not when Abreu got $5 and Dunn, a much better bat, got $10m.
Holliday is a hard worker who is an .850 OPS/20 HR guy with an average glove. This makes him a ‘Matsui type’ (career .852 OPS/average at first, below average glove) of guy. Holliday may get overpaid some as an FA because the market is thin. Something along the line of 4/$40 wouldn’t be bad for the Yankees.
With ARod/Tex/Cano, the Yanks get tons of O from their infield. However, Melky and/or Brett could drop off the earth at anytime. They MIGHT be decent players, but we can’t count on it. We need one more Matsui-or-better type bat from our OF. If the price is right, Holliday is not a bad get. But it must be a 2009 price, not a Colorado price.
Very nice article on Phil, Carl – thanks. However, I certainly dispute Vaccaro saying that an eight inning guy is more important than a starter. These writers are annoying in that they make a stink out of Phil saying he’s happy. Phil IS happy in the role – he enjoys it – but that doesn’t mean he doesn’t want to be a starter. He’s got such a great attitude – he would never say anything that could be misconstrued as whining about being a reliever at this point. I love his quote from ST about wanting to earn a spot on the big league roster, not just being given it
Anyone watching Mike & Mike? The last thing they covered before going to commercial was the Ben R (spelling) story. The commercial? Ben R in a Dick’s Sporting Good’s ad. Talk about a bad juxtaposition.
I can’t wait till the trading deadline passes so we don’t have to read any more on this Halladay thing. He is not coming to NY. Period!!! Yanks are not going to sacrifice the farm for him. As for th outfield, I agree that Jackson will most likely start next season back at Scranton as the Yanks privately feel he will need more seasoning. I would expect him to arrive in the Bronx by next June maybe. I don’t see Bay leaving Boston and the Yanks won’t give in to Scott Boras’s demands for Matt Holliday. He’s just not worth it. One FA to keep an eye out for is Chone Figgins. He could play CF and could fill in for Arod at 3rd occasionally.