Today in The Journal News
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Jul 22, 2009 
Print This Post
| 
Email This Post
It was a long time coming for Sergio Mitre as he returned to the majors and beat the Orioles last night.
Cody Ransom had a productive game. This notebook also has updates on an angry Brett Tomko, Hideki Matsui getting a day off, Derek Jeter and Mariano Rivera.
———–
Another shameless bit of self-promotion: I’m scheduled to be on ESPN2′s First Take just after 10 a.m.
Back in a bit with today’s lineup.
The HBO special with Jorge in it is a must watch. Just make sure to have a box of tissues handy. I was crying watching it. Felt so bad for Jorge Jr. Glad to see he is doing well. Sad to learn he will need another surgery somewhere down the line to complete the cosmetic part.
Also a good read in the Bergen Record about the man the Yankees are honoring today who is stricken with ALS. I was getting teary eyed on the bus reading it.
http://www.northjersey.com/spo....._fan_.html
The New York Yankees is a tough gig. I feel for Tomko – he just wanted to pitch, and the less a guy pitches the less effective he is. I hope he catches on with someone else. Do you really think he was angry or just deeply disappointed and frustrated. In another article I read this morning, he was not characterized as angry, but not having heard his voice when interviewed, it would be impossible to judge simply based on the words I’ve read. The other article also said Tomko was going to miss his Yankees teammates, that that was the most difficult part of this.
(The article was in the Newark Star Ledger written by Feinsand.)
Nice job by Mitre last night.
Before I even read the article, I heard Tomko’s whiny comment yesterday about how he never had a chance. Never had a chance? Who was he, Cy Young? When he signed with the Yankees, before their pitching issues cropped up, he had to know that the likelihood was that if he pitched for them at all, it would be as the long man. It’s his own fault – if he wanted more of an opportunity, he should have signed with a bad team that needed starters. I liked him before this, but honestly, good riddance.
Brett Tomko… HA
Every time you pitched you were god awful
Get a clue
hahaha
well I guess all the belly-aching about the lineup yesterday was for nothing…Ransom had a pretty good game and a good approach at the plate…I’m guessing Gardner gets in there today with the right hander?
Good job by Mitre on the start…it was more than I had expected and I will gladly take an outing like that every time he pitches
You know the Yanks might have a sizeable lead in the division if Tomko started the year in the rotation while Wang completed his re-hab properly. We’ll never know.
I don’t blame him for being ticked off and I don’t blame Girardi for hardly using him. A good team won’t use a 12th pitcher very often and once the Yanks started pitching better Tomko was a wasted roster spot.
Tomko’s comments are hysterical. He never got a chance? When he did pitch, he sucked. Good riddance I say. And good luck finding another team who wants you. Hey, I hear the Mets need pitching. Give them a call.
“Tomko’s comments are hysterical. He never got a chance? When he did pitch, he sucked. Good riddance I say. And good luck finding another team who wants you. Hey, I hear the Mets need pitching. Give them a call.”
He’d probably be their #3 starter right now. I bet he does sign there
“2 people playing 3rd base. Double the range baby.”
Obviously I meant Ransom would play SS. I was half asleep when posting that, give me a break!
Here is my revised lineup guess:
Gardner CF
Damon LF
Teixeira 1B
Rodriguez 3B
Matsui DH
Posada C
Cano 2B
Swisher RF
Ransom SS
Tomko can cry all he wants, the results speak for themselves.
Honestly, he never should have been on the team in the first place. He’s simply not a good pitcher. Classic case of a AAAA player.
My best lineup guess:
Jeter SS
Damon LF
Teixeira 1B
Rodriguez 3B
Matsui DH
Posada C
Cano 2B
Swisher RF
Gardner CF
If somehow I guessed the lineup right two days in a row, then I’m just retiring from it, because I will have hit my ceiling haha
Brett Tomko:
2007 ERA — 5.55
2008 ERA — 6.30
2009 ERA — 5.23
Garbage in, garbage out.
I don’t think it’s a matter of Tomko crying about it. He’s a proud guy, he just wanted to pitch. Obviously his results didn’t dictate he should play, but what’s he supposed to say “I suck, I don’t blame them for not using me”
I agree with Ramey’s lineup, unless there’s some indication that Jeter coming up limping in the 4th was something worth resting. I’m guessing not as he stayed in the game. That and Ransom had the best game you could expect out of him last night so don’t press your luck and expect more tonight.
“Cody Ransom had a productive game.”
Just sounds weird.
Lineup guess for this afternoon:
Jeter SS
Damon LF
Teixeira 1B
A-Rod 3B
Matsui DH
Posada C
Cano 2B
Swisher RF
Gardner CF
Burnett RHP
Good guess Ramey but I think Jeter will be benched due to his knee, he looked pretty stiff yesterday and it’s only going to get worse when he wakes up today. Especially playing a day game after a night game.
Posada MIGHT get the day off but he just sat on Monday so I don’t see the necessity. Hinske also might get a start in RF because he’s been swinging a good bat and Swisher is bad right now. Melky also might start in CF but I’d like Gardner to get a start.
the way for a manager to find out if he has a whiner on his team like tomko turned out to be is to treat them really tough for no reason for long enough to see what the guy is made of. they’ll take it like pros if they really want to be there.
if tomko had some internal strength to him, he would have realized how lucky he was to be a yankee and when exiting said all the right things. this would have guaranteed some nice comments back from the yankees and made it more likely someone looking for good character as well as an arm would have picked him up.
there is a right way and a wrong way to walk out of a clubhouse and tomko took the low road. the problem is that’s who he is. the yankees should have looked for it sooner.
if they have anyone else like him they should root him out and get rid of him ASAP.
those kind of guys are behind the scenes cancers on a team.
good riddance to tomko.
addition by subtraction.
It wouldn’t surprise me too much if Jeter got the day off. I would have originalyl figured him to be the DH today, but I don’t see Joe give Matsui 2 days off in a row. So I threw him out there. Come on captain, u can play on the knee, u know u want to annyway
Can’t fault the Yankees for not using Tomko differently because what they’ve been doing is obviously working. but I don’t fault Tomko for wanting to get more of an opportunity elsewhere. He could have spoken a bit more professionally and not gone on about whether or not the Yankees gave him a “fair” shot…talking fair and unfair always comes across poorly, but I can’t fault the guy too much for being upset, I would be too.
“what’s he supposed to say “I suck, I don’t blame them for not using me””
Well if he wanted to be 100% honest yeah that’s what he should say. But obviously I don’t expect him to because he needs to try and catch on with another club.
I really don’t care what Tomko says, I’m just glad he’s gone. He wasn’t helping the team and it was kind of embarrassing that he was even here.
We definitely need another pitcher – and I’m thinking regular season only (forget the playoffs for now – we may not even make it). I just think it’s extremely silly to count on Andy and Joba (and Mitre – do people really want to try and win a division or make the playoffs with these 3 huge question marks) to do well enough to get us through the rest of the season. One good start by each of them immediately after the ASB is enough to convince people? Believe me, I know about Andy’s history – and I say so what? He’s never been this age before and just because he’s typically a 2nd half pitcher means little to me know. IMO, he’s going to be who he was in the first half – a pitcher who struggles to get out of the 6th giving up less than 4 or 5 runs. He, like Joba, will torch the pen – then, add Mitre (who was good yesterday – he’s be a good 5th man on a team with a decent middle of the rotation). Sorry, living on hope that Andy will find the fountain of youth and that Joba will turn things around isn’t good enough. This is a very good Yankees team – definitely agree that it’s the best Yankees team in years. They need some tweaking – if they don’t do it, it will come back to bite them.
Pat M, Hal has closed the pursetstrings. Forget Halladay – I don’t think he will allow Cash to take on any $$$ (so I think his trading options are limited). The idea that he would take on Rios is just not realistic. Also, SJ said yesterday that Jays ownership has told JP that Doc must not be traded to an AL East team….
Hokiehill,
agreed. tomko should’ve chosen better wording to discuss his departure, but i don’t fault him at all for wanting the chance to pitch. hell, if he DIDN’T want to pitch, that’d be even worse
Okay- everyone. “Guess the Line up” is officially open. The window closes at 10:30. So far I have line ups for:
Patrick the prospect Hugger (2 Thirdbaseman.. funny- I saw your correction)
TarheelYank
Westchester Dave
Ramey
Andrew
“Well if he wanted to be 100% honest yeah that’s what he should say. But obviously I don’t expect him to because he needs to try and catch on with another club.”
Actually, if he did say that, I’d probably sign him just for having a good sense of humor
I totally agree with Randy – and, as I said, he should have signed with a bad team if he wanted a chance to pitch. It’s all on Tomko – what a brat. I hope he doesn’t let the door hit him on the way out.
Yikes randy I’m not as hard on him as you, it’s gotta be frustrating for him to not be used. These guys all have huge egos, they have to if they are major league players. I’m sure he thinks he would have been a lot better if he pitched more often. Is that true? I don’t think so.
Anyways, I couldn’t care less what he says or thinks, he isn’t coming back to the Yanks.
I’d like to see Bruney and Melancon get some more opportunities but I can’t really expect Girardi to use them in close games. Those guys have talent and potential to be big contributors this year. Hopefully the offense steps it up and blows some teams out so we get a chance to see those guys pitch.
I don’t blame Tomko much for his reaction. A guy who wants to contribute is going to be upset when he is released. However, he was probably upset while on the team for a while now because of disuse, and not being given resposibility in big spots.
This is why you can’t have a bench full of former stars and starters. After being a major contributor for years, players do not normally adapt well to lesser roles. This is why Julio Lugo would not work here as a utility player, as many asked for last week. Or Nomar, as a lot of posters wanted this past offseason. The best bench players are normally young players trying to make an impact any way possible, and older players who embrace the diminished role as they come to terms with their fading skills.
Hey Pete:
Any chance they put you one on one with Skip Bayless so you can kick his butt in a Yankee discussion. Thats one guy I would love to see put in his place, and in front of an audience.
Hey Pete:
Any chance they put you one on one with Skip Bayless so you can kick his butt in a Yankee discussion. Thats one guy I would love to see put in his place, and in front of an audience.
erica, just duplicate Ramey’s lineup for me…
I can’t go as far as to call a guy like Tomko a cancer…he chose poorly in openly expressing his feelings to the media, but that doesn’t automatically make him a bad person. It was just a glimpse, but I gathered from the article on his art that he really enjoyed being around and interacting with teammates…doesn’t exactly sound like a cancer to me.
I thought Tomko is gone? If so, why are we crying about what he had to say as he was leaving? We have more important items to discuss about the Yankees than some washed up pitcher that was released.
Erica,
did your butterfly rain jacket keep you dry enough at citifield last night?
Betsy,
They haven’t convinced me but they have shown what they are capable of. I don’t necessarily think the Yankees need another pitcher. Who can they get other than Halladay or Lee that is better than Pettitte and Chamberlain?
Washburn? I’m not convinced he’s any better than what we have and we don’t even know if the Mariners are sellers. Snell? Heck no. Sanchez? Give me a break, he’s a fifth starter in the NL west, how good could he be in the AL east?
The fact of the matter is, the Yanks are in first place with what they have. I think Cash should stand pat with what he has and if Joba/Pettitte fall apart go get someone after the deadline.
The bullpen is good, they don’t need any help there. Also, I could see Bruney, Marte and Melancon improving and helping down the line.
“The bullpen is good, they don’t need any help there. Also, I could see Bruney, Marte and Melancon improving and helping down the line.”
The problem for bruney and melancon is that the team is playing so well, there’s no time to get them in a game to get them work. Which means the day they are called upon to pitch, they’ll likely be ineffective since they haven’t pitched in a game situation in close to 2 weeks.
To an extent that’s what happened to tomko. I know his talent levels aren’t anywhere close to that of bruney or melancon, but, you can’t really expect a guy to be that effective when he does pitch, if they’ve had 2 weeks sitting on the side not doing anything. Nobody will be that effective without normal use.
I think that Tomko was probably just upset. But I am sure he’ll get to pitch a lot of innings for the Mets when they sign him!
Erica, hope you had fun at the concert. My line-up is:
Jeter ss
Damon lf
Tex 1b
Arod 3b
Matsui DH
Cano 2b
Hinske rf
Molina c
Gardner cf
I don’t blame Tomko for being disappointed, but he didn’t show he could be trusted in close games.
In contrast, look at Phil Hughes. I am sure he is disappointed at not being used as a starter, but he has done whatever has been asked of him, and done a good job of it.
Ramey-
Yes. LOL. When my dad saw me wearing it prior to leaving he asked me which 3 year old I stole it from.
Actually, considering the weather forecast- the rain held off pretty nicely. It only misted at various points throughout the night
Hokiehill-
Got it
Did anybody see this article about a New York Mets Executive challenging the minor league Binghmaton Mets to a fight?
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....pn_4347145
Fran- got it
Nobody has closed any purse strings with the Yankees.
Some of you pay WAY too much attention to what’s said publicly.
Nobody is going to announce they are interested in a player. Especially the Yankees because the price goes up.
That’s why Cashman works in stealth mode.
EVERYBODY needs another pitcher at this time of the year. Question is cost and they aren’t going to do anything stupid to get a pitcher.
If the Halladay price comes down, and ownership allows JP to deal within the AL East, the Yankees will be right in the middle of the talks.
If they doesn’t happen, they will turn the page.
Personally, I think they need a RH hitting OF, with a good glove, more than a starting pitcher right now.
Their OF defense, especially in the corners, is awful.
Joba and Andy aren’t awful. Therefore, strictly from a need perspective, a RH hitting OF with good defensive skills could help this roster immensely.
Ramey,
That’s why I’ve posted a few times that I want to see Bruney and Melancon get opportunities to pitch. I just hope the offense starts blowing teams out so they can get a shot.
I never said for sure Melancon and Bruney would help the team but if they get their shot they certainly have to skill to do so.
hey, can anyone tell us who is in 1st place in the al east this morning?
I’ll agree with Patrick. I too think Cashman will stand pat with what he’s got, and since I still think there’s not a chance in hell that we could get Halladay, I’m fine with the current roster. Yes, there are certainly some concerns that I won’t bother to rehash, but we’re in first place for a reason.
Patrick,
I definitely agree on both fronts. Let’s hope we get a nice 8 or 9 run cushion to use Bruney in today!
I understand that Tomko is upset, but there is a right way and a wrong way to do things. Talking trash on your way out is the wrong way to handle this. You should never burn your britches because you never know what the future holds.
Pete-
You know you ruffled some feathers when the Boston Herald gets after you:
http://www.bostonherald.com/tr.....position=4
hey, can anyone tell us who is in 1st place in the al east this morning?
===================
Oh! Oh! I know! I know!
The NY Yankees!
The Paul McCartney show last night was amazing. There were full on fireworks coming out of the CitiField sing during “Live and Let Die”. Sir Paul went on about 8:50 and played until 11:30. I had a really great time. And my sister threatened to throw me from the seat if I did not stop singing loudly and talking to her during the show.
I did not like CitiField. The Jackie Robinson Rotanda opening makes no sense to me. If it wasn’t for the Mets Team Store located on the side of it (which was closed oddly), you would have thought you were in a Dodger stadium. Then walking to the 300 level felt like you were in a small cavern. I didn’t feel comfortable there until I got to the 500 level which had a similar layout to Yankee Stadium with its openness, but it was less wide.
SJ;
You said the Yankees need a right hand hitting OF. What about Josh Willingham? He’s being shopped by the Nats and has hit pretty well this year. His defense isn’t great, but it’s better than both Damon and Swisher
Burn britches? I sure hope he doesn’t set his pants on fire on the way out..
I don’t usually do, this, but Tomko’s getting a bad rap. There is a lot more of what he said which I think reflects much better on his attitude. This is from Mark Feinsand’s Yankees Notebook in the Star Ledger:
“I threw four or five innings in the first month; I don’t think that’s a legit shot to really show what you can do. Being a veteran guy, I thought I would have been given more of an opportunity, but it’s the Yankees. They’re going to win, and if guys are hot, they’re going to go to them. I never got a chance to get hot. I was barely ever pitching, and I don’t want to be that guy that just hangs around. I still want to pitch and not just once every nine days. Maybe this is a blessing in disguise. There are a lot of great guys here, which is the hardest thing anytime it happens. You build relationships with guys and then you have a half hour to say goodbye.”
Feinsand characterized it as Tomko insisting he had no hard feelings against the Yankees.
He doesn’t sound angry or bitter to me. Actually, he sounds realistic.
Like I said before, the NYY is a tough gig and if you don’t make an instant positive impact, which Tomko did not, you’re not going to get the call. And it’s got to stink, in a way, because you get limited opportunities, and the more limited they are the chances of your being effective get smaller because of the disuse.
I don’t know about you guys, but I can’t get the “Notebook” article to come up to save my life…….I just get a home page.
Such a cold response to Tomko. He probably found out the bad news and only had a little time to process before there were about seven funny looking men with notebooks surrounding him.
The words tumbled out, but so did his pride. He’s not a fool, he knows how he pitched…but a pretty good gig ended for him and he has to clean out his locker. It’s okay to have compassion even though he wasn’t up for the challenge. His words got in the way of a graceful exit, but that happens sometimes. Be nice.
SJ44,
I could see that – a RH OF. Wouldn’t it be nice to have Nady right about now? That would help the team so much, especially when Swisher is in one of his ice cold streaks.
About the defense, as bad as it looks right now, Swisher and Damon are actually closer to average than you think. They aren’t ideal out there but they aren’t “awful” by any means.
According to ZR, Swisher is -1 runs saved and Damon is also -1 runs saved (this is as of july 7).
According to UZR, Swisher is -0.1 and Damon is -9.6. So UZR tells a bit of a different story when it comes to Damon.
I’ll never argue that these guys are plus defenders (as we were told before the season) but they aren’t awful. They both make really boneheaded plays from time to time but overall they aren’t hurting the team.
Ok, I’m off to Philly. I’m going to miss chatting with everyone……
Bye!
I don’t see where Tomko is getting so much heat.
The guy just got released. He’s not going to be happy about it.
Fact is, he didn’t pitch much and I don’t care who you are, when you don’t get consistent work, you don’t pitch well.
Stating the obvious, which is all he did, isn’t a crime.
I’ve always liked Josh Willingham as a player. However, I wouldn’t deal for him because he is still grieving over the death of his brother in a boating accident a couple of months ago.
They were best friends and he is taking his death very, very hard. A terrible accident and I can’t imagine Josh would be ready to handle what NY in a pennant race would bring to his life right now.
just found this on youtube, love this not on topic but
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jy0tBBVhBAw
Nevermind……..I can get it with Mozilla………
Erica -
I’m so glad you had a good time last night – I hope you have the requisite laryngitis this morning!
Sounds like your butterfly raincoat did the best it could.
BTW, the Feinsand article is in the NY Daily news.
Best not to burn any bridges on your way out, I say. Take the high road — it’s always best. But I do think some team might give Tomko a chance. We’re in too close a race to give him many innings and watch him get bombed. He scared me coming in to any game. And with the Yanks “comeback propensity,” we really couldn’t afford a mop-up pitcher.
Just saw Wakefield is going on the DL. Poor Boston…
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/ne.....;type=lgns
Did anyone notice they actually have a sign on the Dodger’s left field wall that says “Mannywood?”
I know he’s a great hitter and all, but “Mannywood” on the Dodger’s wall like an advertisement? It’s a permanent sign, not something a fan brought with them.
Sheesh.
We get Feinsand “special to” the Star Ledger. So I don’t have to get the Daily News – yay.
That’s definitely has to be incredbily hard to deal with for Willingham. Probably just as hard for him as what Joey Votto had to be put on the disabled list for. It’s too bad because I’ve always liked Willingham and loved the fact his nickname is “the hammer”
Tomko seemed like an alright guy, but he has to be realistic. When he first came up they put him in a few spots and he didn’t come thru. Remember he was up when Hughes wasn’t in the pen and Bruney went down when the pen really needed a lift. I can understand his frustration, but at the same point he has hung around based on his talent for years now without putting it all together really at any point. I can see him changing his mind and staying, realistically where does he have that he can go if he wants to actually have a shot at a ring?
Wow.
Obviously Tomko slapped all these people in the face and killed their cats.
He didn’t pitch well, he’s gone.
Thanks for that full quote Doreen.
Hey Doreen,
Nice extra gig for Feinsand! And nice for you, too!
I’m strictly an online newspaper reader — not anywhere close to NYC right now…sadly.
Patrick,
Statistics don’t tell the whole story all the time. At some point in time they have to pass the eye test. Damon has been an absolute butcher lately, and Swisher is far from average.
Doreen-
The butterlies did their part
.
I am actually way too sleepy to speak this morning to anyone. I got home around 12:45 and into bed at 1:15. I am really grouchy when I sleep less than 7 hours.
Patrick,
The defensive stats are more and more unreliable when you see how they evaluate players. You rely way, way too much on them.
These same stats had Cano and Tex as an “average” defender. Anybody who watches them everyday sees otherwise.
Damon is costing the team runs every week. Cost them another run last night. Just because they are winning doesn’t discount the damage he does in LF.
Just look at the last 3 days. He’s made 3-4 plays in LF that leave you shaking your head.
Even the balls he gets to are adventures. I’m not even talking about his arm, which is beyond poor.
Swisher? Come on, we have watched him in the OF all year. He’s not good. Forget the stats, use your eyes. Bad routes to the ball and a below average throwing arm, both in strength and accuracy is not an “average” OF by any means.
They are winning despite poor defensive OF play in the corners, not because of it.
Both guys are awful out there, bogus stat ratings aside.
Its a weakness in this team that needs fixing or its going to hurt as the games take on more meaning.
In the late innings, Girardi can plus one hole in the corner OF defensively. He can’t plug two.
It would be nice if he could.
Doreen…glad you posted the full comments from Tomko…I think he’s just caught the wrath of the frequent Yankee fan over-reaction this morning. Everyone thought he was kind of a neat guy when the painting story came out and then today he was a cancer because he wants to pitch more…
What happened with Joey Votto? I know he went on the DL because of a mental health issue, but I thought it was more along the lines of Zack Greinke than some kind of traumatic event? Did I miss a big part of that story?
“I threw four or five innings in the first month; I don’t think that’s a legit shot to really show what you can do. Being a veteran guy, I thought I would have been given more of an opportunity, but it’s the Yankees. They’re going to win, and if guys are hot, they’re going to go to them. I never got a chance to get hot. I was barely ever pitching, and I don’t want to be that guy that just hangs around. I still want to pitch and not just once every nine days. Maybe this is a blessing in disguise. There are a lot of great guys here, which is the hardest thing anytime it happens. You build relationships with guys and then you have a half hour to say goodbye.”
Feinsand characterized it as Tomko insisting he had no hard feelings against the Yankees.
=======================
That animal.
Thanks for posting the full quote Doreen. Not as bad as some made it out to be imo.
The Phranchise,
I think you summed up the difficulty of playing for a winning team in the majors — you either have to earn your spot quickly or someone else will step up and take it.
SJ,
Get out of my head would ya…haha. You used more words than i did.
Andrew,
Votto was still suffering from depression and axiety caused by his father’s death in august of last year
SJ – Texeira is absolutely unbelievable to watch. The guy makes an amazing play a game at least. It also seems Cano has patented that catch the grounder up the middle throw across his body to first move, like Jeter’s jump/throw on the ball to the third base hole.
And it seemed like the majority of this blog this past offseason was campaigning for Swisher to be the regular CF this year. I think that would have lasted about a week!
“And it seemed like the majority of this blog this past offseason was campaigning for Swisher to be the regular CF this year. I think that would have lasted about a week!”
But in that one week we would’ve had a full season’s worth of stomach churning and headaches
Wow reading the entire quote from Tomko makes me wonder why so much vitriol was hurled at the guy. How does that quote equate to him being a clubhouse cancer? He told it like it was with his situation–the Yankees rode the hot hand and he didn’t get to pitch, he thought he would get more of a shot but he understood why he didn’t.
Big flippin deal, I don’t see how this somehow makes him a “brat” and a strain on the team.
Typical huge overreaction by the specific portion of the board that loves reading way too much into every single thing a player says to the media.
game thread up
SJ, what about trading for Matt Holliday from the As, he’s a free agent to be and the As arent going anywhere? How likely do you think that is
SJ: Assuming that the Yankees were able to trade a couple of minor league prospects for the rh outfielder, who would you drop from the 25?
“It also seems Cano has patented that catch the grounder up the middle throw across his body to first move”
Cano is the best I have ever seen on that across the body throw. He is also one of the better and smoother 2B I have seen on the DP pivot. The best Yankee since Willie Randolph, at least. His only defensive problems seem to be when he takes a bad at-bat or a slump out to the field with him, and his concentration lapses. But, that hasn’t happened much this year, if at all. He’s pretty darn good on pop-ups as well. GG this year? Or does Pedroia win it on rep?
“Votto was still suffering from depression and axiety caused by his father’s death in august of last year”
Ahh okay, thanks Ramey, I had no idea–I remember when he went on the DL, but I never got the update as to what was casuing his problems. That’s terrible, poor guy. Hard to imagine how many guys suffered silently in baseball’s past with these kinds of issues, and it’s got to be a sign of some progress in the game that it’s now more common for guys to seek out help for their personal demons.
“How does that quote equate to him being a clubhouse cancer? ”
Now you are putting words into people’s mouths (or is that computers?). Nobody said he was a clubhouse cancer. The quote that Pete included in the article about him never pitching for the Yankees again didn’t help Tomko to come off in a good light. The stuff that is apparently in Feinsand’s article tells a cleaner story. Blame Pete for only including the controversial stuff.
“The defensive stats are more and more unreliable when you see how they evaluate players. You rely way, way too much on them.”
I can’t disagree with what you stated.
“It also seems Cano has patented that catch the grounder up the middle throw across his body to first move”
I don’t know, it looked like a lazy throw to me…
Cano has been a lot better this season not allowing his at-bats to affect his fielding. He’s been pretty consistent fielding his position and doing so very well.
Laura, the clubhouse cancer stuff is a reaction to this post…in which the poster (who is not you) equates Tomko to being a clubhouse cancer….
“the way for a manager to find out if he has a whiner on his team like tomko turned out to be is to treat them really tough for no reason for long enough to see what the guy is made of. they’ll take it like pros if they really want to be there.
if tomko had some internal strength to him, he would have realized how lucky he was to be a yankee and when exiting said all the right things. this would have guaranteed some nice comments back from the yankees and made it more likely someone looking for good character as well as an arm would have picked him up.
there is a right way and a wrong way to walk out of a clubhouse and tomko took the low road. the problem is that’s who he is. the yankees should have looked for it sooner.
if they have anyone else like him they should root him out and get rid of him ASAP.
those kind of guys are behind the scenes cancers on a team.
good riddance to tomko.
addition by subtraction.”
“The defensive stats are more and more unreliable when you see how they evaluate players. You rely way, way too much on them.
These same stats had Cano and Tex as an “average” defender. Anybody who watches them everyday sees otherwise.”
That’s actually false… ZR has Tex at 4 RSAA.
I don’t rely too much on the stats. I don’t think Damon and Swisher are “good” they both have weak arms and make the occasional bad play. However, they both have plus range for their position.
I’m sorry the stats disagree with you but you can’t discount their worth due to pre-existing biases. Everyone is biased that’s why you have to compile an opinion based on stats AND on what you see.
The fact is, outfield defense while a weakness, is not hurting the team all that much. Damon is at -1 RSAA, Melky is +1 RSAA, Gardner is 0 RSAA, and Swisher is -1 RSAA. Overall that’s 0.1 wins lost from outfield defense.
“SJ, what about trading for Matt Holliday from the As, he’s a free agent to be and the As arent going anywhere? How likely do you think that is”
The problem with trading for Holliday is that Beane will want a package better than what he can get from taking those two first round draft choices. I don’t see Cashman doing that type of deal.
“Like I said before, the NYY is a tough gig ”
doreen-
it is and that’s why there is an intangible it takes to be a yankee.
tomko didn’t have it. not many players do. when i was the bullpen catcher for clete boyer for two years (and on a team that had three future mlb managers, i saw a lot of guys go into and out of clete’s office .
there is something to taking bad news like a man. of course you have to be a man in the first place . graig nettles, after the whole clubhouse watched a player who was cut throw a hissy fit , told a story in the bullpen later about a catcher he saw who cried in the office and begged not to be cut.
everyone got really quiet and no one laughed. that was about the worst thing you could do in a pro clubhouse. you have to understand that all players will face uncertainty at some point in their career. some more than others.
how a player handles not knowing what’s coming is to a large degree what makes a tough player or a weak player. to be a yankee, a player has to handle almost constant uncertainty because the standard to win is so high.
some players even though they’re good can’t take it and crack. players like melky are give the tough love like when he was sent to the minors last year and then the yankees see what they are made of. it’s an old time yankee method of separating the men from the boys.
it’s a little seen side of the game, but how a player handles the uncertainty of a job and how he handles losing that job really separates the real pros from the players who are just players.
there is a lot of confusion of what a real yankee is. if a yankee player can handle the uncertainty of the game and not crack , he is well on his way to being a real yankee.
Over the past few years, our corners have been so bad, people are frankly inured to the low standard.
It’s the same mentality that actually had people trying to sell Giambi as an above average defensive 1B. But anyone who goes to the games knows better.
Damon and Swisher are sub-standard OFers – and UZR doesn’t trump what season ticket holders witness in 3-dimensional reality. Being at games consistently actually gives you a much better handle on who does and doesn’t actually get a good jump. YES cameras can’t really communicate this spatially.
I don’t discount the importance of Damon’s bat to the 2009 edition Yankees, however. Swisher is not quite as relevant.
I’ll tune in Pete but Skip ruins that show for me.
The perfect fit for RF is none other than Alex Rios. He’s signed for five years, is 28 and is immeasurably better than anyone (other than Melky) the Yanks can put out there.
Moving him gives the Jays a lot of salary relief and he isn’t all that popular up there anyway. Anyone care to guess the price tag?
“The fact is, outfield defense while a weakness, is not hurting the team all that much. Damon is at -1 RSAA, Melky is +1 RSAA, Gardner is 0 RSAA, and Swisher is -1 RSAA. Overall that’s 0.1 wins lost from outfield defense.”
Keeping quoting those metrics, but they’re not telling the complete story as to how badly Damon and Swisher have been this season.
Yeah Laura I didn’t put words into anyone’s mouth, they just put all kinds of words into Brett Tomko’s mouth based off a pretty benign paragraph of speech directly after he was basically fired from his great-paying job. I’m sure everyone would be so articulate and find the perfect words if in the same situation.
Cash,
I don’t see why your eye or anyone else’s is any better for determining defensive prowess. We are all biased and see what we want to see. Stats give an unbiased look at how a player is doing.
I never said those guys are good out there, simply that they are not awful. Prove me wrong.
SJ…if the tag does not come down on Halladay and the Yankees still decide to go after pitching, who do you think are realistic options?
“I never said those guys are good out there, simply that they are not awful. Prove me wrong.”
I don’t have to prove you wrong because I know you are wrong if you think they’re not awful.
Are you the same Patrick that told me that the Angels aren’t’ that good?
Would a promotion of AJax be in play here? I know it’s probably Melky promotion redux, but he seems to be raking in AAA (sans power). Why not take a chance on bringing him up and see what he can do? Melky (LF), Ajax (CF), Gardner (RF)…?
Cash,
Sorry dude but that’s not a very compelling argument. I am wrong because you are right. Brilliant.
Yes I am the same Patrick. A 3 game series isn’t proof that a team is good or bad. Go look at their run differential.
The worst thing about defensive stats are that other than putouts and assists they are completely subjective and the process is arbitrary.
UZR and RSAA add up to CRAP. As others have pointed out those
The Yankees have two good outfielders, three bad ones and a DH who can’t even go out there. Nice balance.
Hinske was a nice pickup but a better defensive OF would have helped the team more.
I’ve always liked Josh Willingham as a player. However, I wouldn’t deal for him because he is still grieving over the death of his brother in a boating accident a couple of months ago.
They were best friends and he is taking his death very, very hard. A terrible accident and I can’t imagine Josh would be ready to handle what NY in a pennant race would bring to his life right now.
++++++++++++
Some people respond differently to different stimuli… who knows, maybe being in the heat of a pennant race will keep him occupied and play hard in memory of his brother? Or, he could just fold…?
86w,
They are crap because you say so? Are you going to discount the thousands of people that put stock into those stats? They are all CRAP too?
UZR and ZR are by no means the best defensive stats out there but they are the only ones that are somewhat accurate and easily accessible during the season.
It’s funny to me that just because the stats disagree with a person’s opinion that person will attack the validity of the stats.
It’s funny that some of your egos are so huge that you think your eye is more accurate than the eye of the experts that compile these stats.
As I said earlier, deciding on a player’s defensive ability should be a combination of stats and watching the player.
There are no “experts” who compile the stats. They are guys like you and me. My point isn’t that they are 100 percent inaccurate it’s that they are as much a matter of opinion as our debates. Thereforce as an “objective” measure it’s pure crap. As a subjective stat used to defend ones opinion of refute someone else’s it’s fine.
Just don’t try to con people into believing those defensive metrics are factual… they are not.
I feel the same way about “win shares” another inane creation to try and hide ones opinions behind supposedly “objective” data.
86w,
Zone rating data is compiled by paid observers who attend every game and record where every ball is hit.
So apparently your biased view is more legitimate than unbiased observers who are paid to do this? I don’t buy it.
As I said earlier, ZR, UZR, RZR, etc aren’t the best measures of defense but they are the most accurate and easily accessible during the season.
Looking at the stats and watching the player yourself is the best way to measure defensive ability. I don’t put all my faith in the stats but I also don’t put all my faith in the “eye” of the biased fans.
I have issues with UZR. I have no idea what the problem is but with certain players the numbers just don’t add up. Swisher for example. And Tex is barely above average when he’s been utterly brilliant defensively.