Yankees hope to watch their lead grow
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Jul 22, 2009 
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The Yankees, at the moment, lead the Red Sox by 1.5 games. Boston faces the Rangers tonight. The 8:05 game will be on ESPN.
It’ll be Clay Buchholz against Dustin Nippert. Meanwhile, the Red Sox also acquired Chris (brother of Shelley) Duncan from St. Louis for Julio Lugo today.
The Yankees welcome the Jason Giambi-less Oakland Athletics to the Bronx tomorrow night. The Athletics are at home putting a beating on the Twins and then will fly across the country.
I think that’ll be it for me this evening. Catch you tomorrow morning.
———–
More shameless self-promotion: I’ll be on ESPNews just after 8 p.m. talking about the Yankees.
Padilla won’t pitch tonight due to flu. His substitute doesn’t have a good record so I expect the Sox to win tonight.
Have a good night Pete.
Thanks for blogging today (and everyday), Pete. Enjoy the rest of your day.
Hopefully, all the Red Sox will see is the dust in our trail.
This is our third time being in 1st place this season, and it’s about time we stay there. Would love nothing more than to watch this team have fun as they stretch the lead.
Dustin Nippert is the emergency starter tonight for the Rangers.
If the Sox can’t win against him, they have big problems. He’s a glorified BP pitcher.
Another former “can’t miss” prospect (from his D’backs days) who missed.
“Congrats on the sweep.”
Thanks, dennis, I hope I can return the favor in a few hours!
I hope the Rangers eyes light up when they see Bucky’s offerings.
Betsy
July 22nd, 2009 at 5:51 pm
“Dennis, really just didn’t do much. I arrived at my B&B and walked to the Reading Terminal Market where I had a roast pork sandwich (with provolone and broccoli rabe) and peach ice cream from Bassett’s (oldest ice cream company in America). Tomorrow it’s all but Independence Hall, Ben Franklin and other historical stuff – can’t wait.”
TONY LUKES IS AWESOME!!
I love that sandwhich!!
Anyone else expecting Swisher to get a tongue lashing from Girardi?
Nick.
Thanks so much. Very kind as always.
-the hockey puck
This is why I hate weekday Day Games.
You see, I have a set schedule:
1. come home from work
2. work out
3. get some work done
4. eat dinner
5. put on my Ohio University sweatpants, lay on my couch and DO NOT MOVE for 9 innings of New York Yankee Baseball.
6. A little kissy face with the lady-friend
7. off to bed.
Now my entire night is f’ed up. Oh well, at least we got a win.
I don’t think he will get a tongue lashing from Girardi.
Swisher is what he is and I think Girardi understands that.
He’s a great guy for the clubhouse and if he was in his original role (2-3 day a week player) you could hide his flaws.
Playing him everyday is tough because his flaws can hurt.
Today, everybody laughs because the Yankees won.
However, do it against the Sox, as he did when he misplayed 2 balls and got picked off twice in the last Sox series, nobody is laughing.
It would be nice if they can somehow find a RH hitting corner OF at the deadline. That would reduce his PT and it would be better for everybody.
Absent that, its hold your breath time everyday he is in the lineup.
“Another former “can’t miss” prospect (from his D’backs days) who missed”
ok. I remember him. Peeps were complaining Cashman didn’t obtain him in the Randy Johnson trade
: )
red sox fans here on cape cod are a bit taken back by the latest turn of events that have resulted in the yankees in first place. all of a sudden things have turned for the worse from their point of view. i wonder if the red sox management will sense that something is slipping away and go after halliday.
red sox hitting is nonexistent for july. i always thought that the red sox could not build an offense around pedroia and youkillis because they just aren’t the same as manny and ortiz in their prime.
matsuzaka being out is a big blow too. they really might be more trouble than what their record indicates.
with the red sox down , the yankees couldn’t have picked a better time to play well and apply pressure.
Dr. Cox,
Watch the replay on YES and you can keep the same routine!
Works for me.
Groan. We better find someone to replace Phil in the bullpen next season:
Converted starter Phil Hughes, emerging as a reliable setup man, worked a scoreless eighth that included a strikeout and a double-play grounder.
“He’s been very good,” Posada said. “Finding him to do that setup role is the reason why we’re here.”
Dennis, Philly is just a great city to walk around in. Even the bit of walking I did today – it’s just not comparable to NY. I love NY and granted, not every part of NY is like midtown, with its indimidating skyscrapers, but it’s just overwhelming to me (again, I adore it and will defend it against anyone who trashes it). Philly is…….cozier, in a way.
Radar, I had Tony Luke’s the last time – very good. I don’t think I will get there this time around.
SJ44,
How about Rios?
From Heyman’s Twitter -
#redsox and #indians discussing pitching prospects for victor martinez. talks “cooled” with laroche deal. but not dead.
38 minutes ago from web
Vinny,
Exactly.
Its why you can never fall in love with every prospect. 95% of them never make it. Out of the 5% who do, a third of those guys become impact players. That’s how tough it is to make it.
The good organizations do a great job of self scouting. They know the keepers from the guys they hype to the Baseball America’s of the world to make them attractive on the trade market.
The Yankees did that recently with Jeff Marqueza. He was always nothing better than an organizational arm. Yet, the White Sox fell for the hype and took him, along with Betemit for Nick Swisher.
SJ, I always like to get your impressions of AJ – especially since I missed the game. Thoughts so far on his signing? I guess that’s a dumb question because there’s still a looooooong way to go. Maybe a better question would be: have you seen from him thus far what you were hoping to see? Thanks!
I’m not taking the A’s for granted – any team can beat any team at any time. It’s nice that the Yanks can have an evening off while the Sox sweat it out in Arlington……
“i wonder if the red sox management will sense that something is slipping away and go after halliday”
trade for Matt Holliday via a rental? They won’t resign both him and Bay. Works for me
Cleveland isn’t trading Victor Martinez for “prospects”. That’s a fairytale deal.
M,
If the Jays are stuck on not allowing the Yankees to do business with them, they will make bad deals.
When ownership does stuff like that, it hamstrings a GM from doing a deal that’s best for the franchise.
I think if Alex Rios ever hooked up with Kevin Long he would fulfill his potential.
Its probably why Toronto is afraid of moving him to NY. lol
SJ,
Yeaaaa, I mean, I guess…
But watching sports already knowing what happened? I dont know, I just never got into it.
Plus my schedule is already screwed as I skipped the gym haha.
damn weekday games!
Any good photoshoppers out there?
theme: John Henry as the scarecrow in The Wizard of Oz.
I’ve always liked the AJ Burnett signing.
I am a talent guy. Unless the guy is a complete jerk, which AJ is not, I take talent every single time.
AJ is to pitching what Alex Rios is to playing everyday. A guy who needs the challenge of a big market.
For AJ, he did a great job bouncing back from the Boston disaster and establishing himself as the #2 starter.
His stuff is so good its scary at times.
Its huge for him to be coming up this big since Wang has fallen off the map.
Another very good signing by Cashman.
Speaking of hype, the Red Sox are doing the same thing with Buchholz.
2-8 last year and exiled to Pawtucket? Now you don’t trade him for Victor Martinez?
Betsy -
You’ve given me a good idea. My husband floated the idea of taking 3 days and going to Lake George. We’ve been, and it’s beautiful, but there’s really nothing to do up there. Maybe I’ll suggest to him we spend a day in Philly instead. And a day down the shore and maybe a day in DC.
Usually we take an extended vacation in August, but this year, we decided not to.
Yanks aren’t trading for Halladay.
Dr. Cox,
I have a sickness so, don’t go by me.
I got the new Yankee DVD, Perfect Games and No Hitters, and am going to watch Jim Abbott’s no no tonight.
That’s my evening baseball fix.
They aren’t trading for him because they haven’t yet been allowed into the bidding.
They are interested though. Kay said the same thing I’ve been saying for 3 weeks. They are locked and loaded if the Jays want to talk. However, the Jays aren’t returning calls.
Their loss if they do. The only thing worse than trading Roy Halladay is taking a lesser deal just to keep him away from NY or Boston.
L to the 2nd July 22nd, 2009 at 6:15 pm
This pads the bench a little for the Red Sox, not much else.
Wasn’t Buchholz 2-8 last year and banished to Pawtucket? I think they’re really overplaying their “untouchable” hand with this guy.
—
He was just plain awful last year but so was Phil Hughes. They still think they have got something special on their hands with him. I think they are overvaluing him a little bit to much based on past experience in the majors, but like Hughes, Clay dominated AAA and has continued to do that. Now the Sox have to wait and see if he can put in a better performance then last year. They better hope he does or else his trade value is going to plummet as well as having the Sox flounder.
Their loss if they do. The only thing worse than trading Roy Halladay is taking a lesser deal just to keep him away from NY or Boston.
- – -
I still remember the shock from the Santana trade. If the rumors were right, the Twins could have had Phil Hughes or Jon Lester. Just 1 of those 2 guys would have been a better trade then what they got for him and he passed it up just to get him out of the AL.
Dr. Cox: why not return to Union Square for those 3+ hours and work on your novel?
Dennis: get some Round Top ice cream, that would be your best revenge. I could counter with some Mitchell Brothers ice cream, but it’s not the same.
I think Halladay either goes to the Ohillies or stays put.
Phillies – whoops
Some interesting data pulled from random sources:
Boston has as much trouble with rookie pitchers as the Yankees do.
Since June 23 Sox are 12-11 and the Yankees are 19-5.
The Yankees are only THREE games behind the Dodgers for the best record in all of baseball.
It’s good to be a Yankee fan.
They aren’t trading for him cause they won’t trade Montero, Hughes or Joba.
CC says “Cody Ransom is cool”
so there’s that
Stuffy Corporate clubhouse is “Garbage”
Soft market for Doc might open the door for the Yankees. But giving Halladay & Rios to the Yankees will ruin the Jays. Or at least their front office.
I heard Stark say that trading Halladay will ruin the franchise. But he doesn’t understand that they’re forced to. They can’t keep him, or Doc doesn’t want to stay. Doc has another chance at a big contract and wants to win. He won’t get it in Toronto. So as a courtesy to Doc for his years of selfless service, they’re going to accomodate him.
I heard the Brewers were interested. How disgusted would they be if they gave up prospects and we still ended up with Doc and Sabathia?
Gotta give Omar credit on the Santana trade (even though he basically fell into his lap). If Gomez is considered the centerpiece of that deal, he STOLE him from the Twins
If Toronto doesn’t trade Halladay by the end of next week, their leverage goes down tremendously – and they know it.
They may decide to go for it one last time in ’10 if they don’t get what they want.
looks like Theo will be more dumpster diving:
“trading deadline hasn’t passed but don’t expect blockbuster(s). like this club; love the prospects it might take to do a blockbuster.about 1 hour ago from web”
http://twitter.com/John_W_Henry
Believe none of what you read on Twitter and half of what you see on youtube.
SJ, I think the time is apporaoching where the Board of Directors or who ever is controling the Estate of the Late Mr. Rogers will be calling JR and simply tell him, we tried your way & time is running out….Move contracts and clear money off the books…….Those folks don’t really care mich about 2-3 years from now, they care about the ledger book come this winter……
I’ve learned to never underestimate the stealth Brian Cashman. With 9+ days to go until the deadline, it will be Cashman that J.P. Ricciardi will call last for a final offer on Halladay.
Let the analysts speculate but nobody is privvy enough with Cashman’s thinking other than Hal Steinbrenner.
What happens with the Tampa Bay series looms big whether Cashman decides to pull the trigger or not.
Just don’t think they’ll trade him within the division – unless they have no choice.
JP said early in the process that he’s not adverse to trading within the division. Halladay will be a FA after ’10 anyway.
But, apparently, ownership is squashing the possibility of any intra-division transaction.
We’ll all know by next week.
John Henry’s twitter from yesterday:
“Met with Theo today. What’s the definition of a number 1 starter? Is Buchholz going to be one? I think most people in baseball think so.”
since when is Peter Gammons “most people in baseball” ?
John Henry followed that with
“A #1 starter used to be a “top of the rotation guy” But now, in baseball, the term normally refers just to aces – perhaps the top 10 in MLB”
———–
so he’s saying most people in baseball think Buchholz will be a top 10 starter?
Why is Henry musing via Twitter? I can’t read into it. He could be trying to outsmart everyone else be leaving clues or red herrings.
I’m not going to try and figure out what’s going on inside an 80 year-old’s head.
m, who really is the ownership ????? JR certainly isn’t…There’s a group of beancounters who are in charge of the Estate….Unless I wrong, but from all I’ve read The Toronto Blue Jays will be on the market within a year or so…..There’s enormous cash flow issues ….Time will tell….
What are Henry & Gammons smoking?
They’re really believing their own BS
Buchholz 2-8 last year – an ace? Top 10 pitcher? Then what’s Joba?
That second tweet is so obvious. Henry’s trying to inflate Buchholz’s start. Would be hilarious if his ERA got inflated tonight instead. But more likely than not, he’ll pull a Texas Hughes.
*stock
Okay, that Subway sandwich commercial is really bugging me. Santana says, “Hey, ZZ,” instead of “CC.” And I don’t know who they’re talking about when they say “It’s being you know who big.” “No, it’s being you know who big.”
They’re cute, and charming guys, seem really nice, but the commercial is dumb.
I have learned not to underestimate Pat M’s vision and foresight.
We’ve now heard from three ownership groups (directly or via media outlets) all seeming to make an intra-division trade involving Mr. Halladay unlikely.
Is that the unvarnished truth? Posturing? Hard to say. But it seems very likely that far more is being considered and discussed than we are aware of. The countdown to Aug 1 should be entertaining.
chris duncan is so good he is going to start out in pawtucket. man that is a trade that will get the sux over the top.
i cannot believe the cards will not get any payroll relief for lugo? no friggin way they are paying the $14 mill left on his deal, no way….
hey i guess hughes and chamberlain were not just hype!!!!!!!!!!!!!hughes looks like he is a keeper huh…………23 yr old throwing 96 and pitching in the 8th with zero fear……………
Unfortunately, I do like Buchholz and think he can be a solid starter (a formidable #2 behind Lester).
However, it’s almost as if Henry is simply using Twitter to feed Sox Nation whatever he thinks they want to hear… to keep them feeding off of the Sox “empire”.
Or maybe he really does believe all of his garbage…
Doreen,
It’s “beating you know who”.
They say BEATING, not being, which I assume means each other.
But you’re right, it’s dumb.
sportsfans enjoy your evening all is well in the yankee universe at least until 7 PM thursday night….
I think it’ll be a high scoring game tonight. I’d be surprised if Clay can shut down Texas at their place. Boston’s offense has been horrible lately but I have to think they can hit Nippert. And that was a good trade at least getting Chris Duncan because Julio “wife beater” Lugo was worthless for the Sox
CC is a Subway hawker? Did Ryan Howard wonders.
Gee – Omar missed out on Lugo – he must be bummed.
How long before he picks up Tomko?
5..4…3..2..
mlbtraderumors say the Sox will pay Lugo’s salary.
Doreen, I think they are saying “it’s beating you know who big”.
And, yes it’s a dumb commercial. To me, they seem to be handling those subs like they were made of “you know what”.
The A’s offense looks like it has awoken but i think its more of a sign of how bad the twins pitching was, besides yesterday.
Yay Yankees!
Go Rangers!
Go White Sox!
Phillies need Halladay. He would be a great addition to their rotation which is mediocre.
Clare -
Okay. That makes more sense, but who is “you know who?” Is it the Red Sox for CC and some other NL team for the Mets? Or is it the Mets for CC and the Yankees for Johan? And if so why?
Too much thinking involved.
“it’s beating you know who big”.
maybe im just a ruh-tard (Hangover reference, anyone?) but what does that even suppossed to mean?
Two Eric Hinske style trades for the Red Sox there.
Just to further explain how awful John is in describing the game. On the play that Swisher made, I thought he went into the stands to get it, and pulled a chunk out of the wall. I just watched it. it didn’t happen anything like they said it did.
I like the sub commercial. It’s fun seeing Johan speak english incorrectly.
I’ll be on ESPNews just after 8 p.m.
you go pete.
jennifer,
I think it was a game at Citifield, but apparently they can’t see the corners from the broadcast booth.
So Suzyn’s all, “That’s a foul ball. At least we think.” And her and John are snickering about it.
But to myself, I’m thinking that Suzyn’s thinking, “So this is what it’s like to be John, and not know what’s going on.”
going after halladay by the sox might hurt in the long run more than help.
it will cost.
i wonder if buchholz has another good game???
Gammons has been using ESPN as his bully pulpit for Red Sox interests for the past several years. It’s sad. Back in the `70s and `80s he was a good journalist.
Nick In SF….I really haven’t a clue as to how this will all shake out….I’m just going on a premise that I’ve seen over the years that when a Franchise is getting ready to be sold, all fianacial red ink needs to be removed or reduced to achieve a marketable commodity…..There comes a time in this process when the suits who only see in from a business prospective will have the final say….The baseball guy in this case JR, is the guy looking up and carries out his marching orders…….I say Halliday is the first domino to fall in Toronto…..Over the years this has been known as a fire sale…..San Diego Padres were gutted in the early 90′s so it could be sold quickly…….Thank You for the compliment, but I failed on not jumping on the Wang unders….
maharba retep-Lester has done better than both Jobber and Yuse in the majors.
Gammons loves to drone on “Clay Buchholz, Michael Bowden are coming”
And Lars Anderson…
What a Sox tool – and ESPN is crawling right up their rear ends too.
ESPN on the Bernahard story
maharba retep-I don’t think Halladay is moving anywhere. No one wants to give up the prospects.
He has GOT to go. No one in MLB should go near this guy.
“Cancer” is a word and a half for him.
The Castillo dropped ball was the Mets season in a microcosm.
I think it’s the Phillies or nowhere for Halladay – although the Phils may decide they don’t need him
maharba retep-Did they serioucly try to downgrade Cone and Wells’ perfect games?
If Pete didn’t decline cursing I’d be calling them some pretty bad names right now.
ESPN is becoming more & more of a joke.
Granted, the Expos were no prize, but the Twins were a minor league team? Really?
http://www.nesn.com/2009/07/ri.....ersal.html
An article on Youuuse being the bridge to Mo-land
Um they pitched PERFECT GAMES!
Do you know how difficult that is vs. a LITTLE LEAGUE TEAM!
SEVENTEEN TIMES in MLB history, and they’re trying to make it less of an achievement?
Theo on the LaRoche trade:
http://www.boston.com/sports/b.....n:twit:sox
“”I think we plan to be very active in discussions in talking to just about every club out there and persuing every player that can make us better now and in the future,” Epstein said. “Certainly, there are no guarantees. Certainly, we hope to make another move between now and the deadline.”
“LaRoche’s impressive seconds half splits are “nice,” Epstein said, but they were not a “key component” in the decision. Epstein believes playing at Fenway will help LaRoche, because his natural swing drives the ball to left-centerfield.”
Wow, I can’t believe they tried to make perfect games seem like a minor achievement. If it’s so easy how come only 17 other pitchers did it?
Sorry, 15 other pitchers.
And if I’m not mistaken, didn’t Moose come within 1 strike – in Fenway – of doing it to the Red Sox?
That probably would’ve been downgraded, too – “there was a flu bug going around the Boston clubhouse…”
What a bunch of jokers.
ESPN bans New York Post staffers from its outletsESPN retaliated Wednesday against the New York Post for its decision to use still images of Erin Andrews from a surreptitiously obtained videotape, banning Post staffers from its various outlets, including its TV networks and 1050 ESPN Radio.
“In light of the New York Post’s decision to run graphic photos of ESPN reporter Erin Andrews, we have decided to stop utilizing Post reporters on any of our outlets,” ESPN’s senior VP of communications, Chris LaPlaca said.
http://weblogs.newsday.com/spo.....taffe.html
Wait till they come to OUR house AGAIN
July 22nd, 2009 at 7:28 pm
The Castillo dropped ball was the Mets season in a microcosm.
****
I caused that dropped ball. I was watching the game in a bar in Atlantic City and there was a Mets fan dude next to me and we were picking on each other the whole night. When A-Rod hit the pop-up, he started cheering and yelling “hahah”. I screamed out, “He didn’t catch it yet”. And then before we knew it, he didn’t catch it ever
Btw- the word “microcosm” does not get used enough on this blog
Rishi-Well, that’s one thing ESPN is doing right.
ESPN bans New York Post staffers from its outletsESPN retaliated Wednesday against the New York Post for its decision to use still images of Erin Andrews from a surreptitiously obtained videotape, banning Post staffers from its various outlets, including its TV networks and 1050 ESPN Radio.
“In light of the New York Post’s decision to run graphic photos of ESPN reporter Erin Andrews, we have decided to stop utilizing Post reporters on any of our outlets,” ESPN’s senior VP of communications, Chris LaPlaca said.
****
This increases my respect level for ESPN exponentially
“And if I’m not mistaken, didn’t Moose come within 1 strike – in Fenway – of doing it to the Red Sox?”
———-
I’ll never forgive Carl Everett for breaking that one up.
I believe it was a perfect game he had going…
ugh
Erica-When I wrote the word microcosm I thought of the National Spelling Bee.
I think ESPN is starting a battle here they can’t win.
All of a sudden they’re taking the moral high ground? I don’t think so.
There has been a dearth of ‘microcosm’ usages despite a plethora of opportunities.
Wait till they come to OUR house AGAIN
July 22nd, 2009 at 7:23 pm
maharba retep-Lester has done better than both Jobber and Yuse in the majors.
————————————————————
lester will also be 26 in january..
if hughes or joba aren’t pitching well at 25 then i’ll almost give up on them.
they have very little innings in the majors.
next year will tell a lot about joba,the year after for hughes because he is in the pen now & is younger than joba.
Paging Mr. Roget…
Mr. Roget…to LoHud blog…stat
Nick in SF-And despite a myriad of opprtunities there have not been enough uses of the word plethora. Or myriad.
bru-True.
To the guy who is posting as my name backward.
Hilarious. Now stop. Pick a normal name or be gone. I’m tired of babysitting this place.
maharba retep July 22nd, 2009 at 7:44 pm
Guys,
ESPN is defending Erin Andrews because she is a Celtics and REd Sox fan, as most of their other employees are.
I do think the whole situation is terrible, but make no mistake, ESPN protects their own (boston fans).
———–
Talk about an unbelievably stupid notion.
No, no – it has nothing to do with the despicable decision to run those pictures of an ESPN employee. It has everything to do with protecting Andrews because she’s supposedly a Red Sox fan.
Unreal.
I would hope the Yankees would take the same measures if Kim Jones was the target of this crime.
Wow, I feel stupid for not noticing that.
So Peter – would that be a pallindrome?
Boston Dave.
The result of the perfect game is because that Carl did not believe that dinosaurs ever existed and he took that belief to “Moose”(s) as well. Perhaps he should come to Maine to see them for himself.
Hope all is well.
-dennis
and I was trying to figure out what that screen name meant!
L to the 2nd
July 22nd, 2009 at 7:50 pm
So Peter – would that be a pallindrome?
***
No. A palendrome is a word which is the same forwards and backwards. Like:
NOON
RACECAR
LOL
So JAP is your phony alias, then?
Hey Pete – aren’t you supposed to be on ESPN News now?
Don’t tell them you read the NY Post….
I think you are an excellent blogger and writer Pete! You do a great job, I dont think anybody could do it better.
Wait till they come to OUR house AGAIN
July 22nd, 2009 at 7:50 pm
Wow, I feel stupid for not noticing that.
***
If it makes you feel better I didn’t notice either. And now I am sad its gone! LOL
posting pete’s name backward?
where?
i looked & didn’t see anything???
Who from the Post does (did) ESPN talk to I can’t think of any.
bru
July 22nd, 2009 at 7:56 pm
posting pete’s name backward?
where?
i looked & didn’t see anything???
in the cornfield with Berroa
Erica-Kayak.
Still thinking.
You’re right Erica, my bad
OTTO
CC (SABATHIA WON’T WORK)
PEEP (ERIN ANDREWS REFERENCE)
I know Joel Sherman has a weekly segment on Michael Ky’s show.
He certainly won’t be missed. Most of what he says is gibberish anyways.
Uncle Ellsworth
July 22nd, 2009 at 7:57 pm
Who from the Post does (did) ESPN talk to I can’t think of any.
—————–
It’s in the article, but think Kernan, Sherman etc
I used to have a roommate named “Aviva” we always told her she was a palendrome. LOL
ok thanks guys
L 2 to the 2nd,
I was just kidding. I dont understand the problem with his name backwards. Nobody would have noticed it.
RADAR
BOOB
ABBA
I hate day games when I have class. I am assuming based on Kim Jones’ question that Swisher screwed up in RF? What happened?
L 2 the 2nd
I was just kidding. Im not sure anyone would have noticed it and if so, why woudl it matter, but oh well.
I forgot to put on ESPN until now. Did I miss Pete??
Look at Buchholz. He’s got those beady eyes cast firmly on my laptop.
Sorry, hayseed, this on laptop you can not have.
I missed it completely.
Maybe it didn’t meet the “obscene, vulgar, or profane” standard?
Christina-One error and two great plays.
Good for ESPN. There have to be some consequences.
In the past, in different and irrelevent circumstances, people argued that the beat writers shouldn’t be held accountable for decisions made by the news or editorial sections of the paper that they have no control over. I disagree. I think the people working for the paper should suffer consequences for the bad behavior of the organization that pays their salary. If they don’t like it, they need to put pressure on the organization to avoid disgusting and sexist behavior.
Love to see Buchholz lit up like a Christmas tree tonight….
I got your “untouchable” right here, pal…..
I think we should make Bucholz a curse word.
David Murphy for Eric Gagne not one of Theo best deals but that does not get mentioned much. Sox wished they had Murphy with Drew and his 70 million contract hitting 230.
Christina,
he basically flat out “Castillo’d” a ball to him.
Done.
From now on, he will be referred to as “B&%$*#!Z”
Wait till they come to OUR house AGAIN
July 22nd, 2009 at 8:08 pm
I think we should make Bucholz a curse word.
***
Like, “You are a Buchholz”, or “Buchholz you”???
Go Bucholz yourself.
Yeah, that works.
Dave Roberts = insufferable bore.
But haven’t you heard?
Theo’s a SUUUUUPER GEEENIUS
and Cashman just has unlimited $$$ toi spend…..
Erica-See above. Also like:
“I think the Yankees are gonna lose.”
“Bucholz! We’re better than this team.”
1-2-3 go the sox. Youkilis strikes out
Rangers’ pitcher looks like he means business.
WTTCTOHA-
I am voting for “Go Buchholz yourself”. I think its catchy
Erica-That’s what we say to trolls from now one since Pete doesn’t like us cursing.
Hey Peter — can we say “Buchholz”?
77513,
perhaps an even bigger piece to the Gagne deal was Engel Beltre who is now only 19 and at the time of the trade was considered a high upside 5-tool guy.
I haven’t really followed his progress so I don’t know how he is doing but his inclusion went mostly unnoticed.
Have you seen the new i-pod? I wish I had one, but I don’t have the dough.
I think I’ll Buchholz it.
Pete is tired of babysitting this blog…tell LoHud to get registration! That will solve some of the issues.
dennis,
ahh, I used to love those Carl Everett interviews
“dinosaurs? cmon now. can’t fool me!”
but he was crazy enough that your hypothesis actually makes sense
hope all is well up in maine.
Just thought I’d say that I didn’t think that the Chucky doll hit Kinsler on purpose!
How about
Bucholz you!
Nice job on ESPNews. You’re the journalistic equivalent of James Brown — the hardest-working man in sports reporting.
Yahoo article on how shattered bats are decreasing. Clearly they have never watched Johnny Damon bat nor interview him for this story-
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/ne.....;type=lgns
Or..
“Sorry, I Buchholz’ed Up”
Listen to ESPN cleaning Bucholz. This is unbelievable.
and Dave OBrien is clearly upset about last night. “Beckett just pitched well enough to lose”
Never heard that one before.
Why are the Rangers swinging at this garbage. and they’re mentioning Jacoby’s steal of home. Geez, doesnt smooching the Red Sox get tiring after a while. Ya know, the Rangers are playing pretty decent baseball themselves.
“Sorry, I Buchholz’ed Up”
I am watching the NESN version. If you can imagine it would be less sickening than the ESPN fawning, it actually is.
Okay here are some shortened versions:
BU!
BBD!
Darn.
No score.
Thanks Dave and Wait. I have the encore on but I probably missed the play at this point since its in the 6th now.
What about-
“What the Buccholz” LOL
Or, you are such a Bocholz.
I was just going to say – I won’t watch ESPN – might as well put NESN on…
But the WORST “homers” have to be the White Sox guys- Ken “Hawk” Harrelson – another ex-Red Sox.
Put THIS on the board, Buchholz!
I like em’ all.
Bucholz is an all purpose curse word.
Jason Bay… not doin’ too well on his salary drive
(except against us, of course)
Did you know that in 08′ Bucholz was on the DL for a torn fingernail?
NESN just announced that since the AS Break, Suxers as a team are hitting .194!
Teams slump, baby. This is one heck of a slump. And this is the time for our heroes to make hay.
Agreed on the “Hawk”..
see, http://www.heavethehawk.com
-dennis
Yanks’ .606 winning % puts them on pace to win 98 games.
Not too shabby.
Wow Lugo must feel like he died and went to heaven. Going to the Cards isn’t necessarily chump change!
Buccholz reminds me of the British swear word bollocks, which means “useless”
“Did you know that in 08? Bucholz was on the DL for a torn fingernail?”
Damn, that’s Buchholz’d up!
Nippert is really keeping them off kilter.
WHO??????????
“Damn, that’s Buchholz’d up!”
LMBO!!!
What is he, a girlie man?
“I can’t pitch now, I broke a nail…”
Does he wear high-heeled cleats, too?
Sux are playing like Bucholz!
Sux can’t hit for Bucholz!
Down goes Kotsay
Down goes Varitek – hey your captain is hitting .230
Ours is what, about .320 now?
listen to these guys.
Sut saying the ump has missed 4 calls tonight which reminds me…
Did anyone see Hideki’s at bats today and feel that he got cheated in every one.
You didn’t get the full story. He broke the fingernail on one of the computers he has stealing! He couldn’t play because he was being arraigned on his start day.
J/K
He he he
Washington Nationals… worst team in MLB???
not if the Mets can help it!
3-1 Nats in the 6th
3-1 in the 6th?
Turn off the TV, they’re done.
Has Tony B been Buchholz’d yet?
I love watching the Mets lose.
SJ44
July 22nd, 2009 at 6:23 pm
I’ve always liked the AJ Burnett signing.
I am a talent guy. Unless the guy is a complete jerk, which AJ is not, I take talent every single time.
AJ is to pitching what Alex Rios is to playing everyday. A guy who needs the challenge of a big market.
For AJ, he did a great job bouncing back from the Boston disaster and establishing himself as the #2 starter.
His stuff is so good its scary at times.
Its huge for him to be coming up this big since Wang has fallen off the map.
Another very good signing by Cashman.
———————————————————
Completely agree on this, I have always thought AJ was perfect for the Yankees. I also think Rios is a terrific player and would be a great fit for the Yankees as well, I’d be very happy if they could get him from the Jays in a standalone trade for a couple of lower level prospects.
Whoops, there goes Chucky’s no-no
I was listening to a Boston sports station tonight and they said Bucholtz liked the night life to much.
Sounds like Robbie and Melky.
Pavano is having another great night so far. 7ER in 4.2 inns & still on the bump.
Double steals are a thing of beauty!
That’s the Carl we know & love.
Is he grabbing his arm yet?
If Chucky keeps serving up his junk changeup all night they s/b able to run on him at will.
Has Tony B been Buchholz’d yet?
============================
..and Veras is relieving Pavano in a mop up role
ROFLMAO
SJ44,
Not sure if you’re still around but just wanted to say a few things.
Michael Kay was talking on the radio this evening about how Girardi LOOOVVESS Nick Swisher. He was insisting that Girardi just really likes the guy and how he plays.
I don’t want to get into another “Swisher: good or bad?” argument but even if a trade is made for a RH OF I have a feeling Girardi would still start Swish the majority of the time.
I don’t know if that’s the right or wrong move but it sounds like Girardi really really likes Swisher.
If you extract Beckett & Lester’s era from the Boston starters , all the other starters register a 6.12 era….Besides the offensive issues the BoSox have concerns….They are not as good as their record indicates….
I think the BoSox are good.
I also think we are very good. I would not be surprised if either team won the division.
Question: could I detest Nick Green more?
Answer: Not a shot.
I can’t stand nick green. He was never this good for the yankees.
i do hate Nick Green
Great points Pat M.
Patrick,
Girardi also said that all 5 OF’s are going to play more in the second half.
I know Girardi likes Swisher. I also know he wishes he didn’t have to play him everyday.
That’s the rub with Nick. The more he plays, the more his flaws can sometimes hurt you.
Like I said earlier, today, the antics are “funny” because they won.
However, if he makes the same kind of boneheaded plays he did the last time he was in Boston the next time they play the Sox or another good team, nobody, especially Girardi, will be laughing.
I like the guy on the team. He has value. I just don’t think he is a 600 AB guy and that hurts the Yankees at times.
Its why I wish Nady didn’t get hurt. He’s the perfect fit to balance PT with Nick.
@ Patrick the Prospect Hugger
Yeah I heard Kim Jones say the same thing on wfan. She said Girardi loves Swisher and Gardner.
“They are not as good as their record indicates….”
Not a question. And if you watch them all the time you realize that. Sorry, but they just aren’t that good a team.
Pat M….
July 22nd, 2009 at 8:52 pm
If you extract Beckett & Lester’s era from the Boston starters , all the other starters register a 6.12 era….Besides the offensive issues the BoSox have concerns….They are not as good as their record indicates….
—————————————————-
You also hear how old the Yankees are but not much about the RS. They have their share of older players and that is part of their problem.
But ESPN says that Red Sox have the best pitching depth.
Nick Green shouldn’t be this good. It’s not fair.
You also hear how old the Yankees are but not much about the RS. They have their share of older players and that is part of their problem.
__________________________________________________
Same thing with the Celtics. Nobody considered injuries for the Celts this year and already theyre the favorites if the Lakers dont get Odom back. But all those Celts are 1 year older and Rasheed is another old player. ESPN and Skip “boston cleaner” Bayless wont mention that.
“I can’t stand nick green. He was never this good for the yankees.”
Trumpetman, the simple answer is that most players, once they leave the Yankees, hit their stride! I think it’s called the absence of the pressure that goes with playing in pinstripes. Ask Jeff Weaver, Jose Contreras, Ricky Ledee, Ted Lilly, Javy Vazquez, Nick Green, to name but a few.
Nick Green??
Nick Buchholz’n Green??
A 25th man scrub on the Yankees – now he’s a world beater??
WTB?
Pat M….
July 22nd, 2009 at 8:52 pm
If you extract Beckett & Lester’s era from the Boston starters , all the other starters register a 6.12 era….Besides the offensive issues the BoSox have concerns….They are not as good as their record indicates….
————————————-
Thats a good stat people who are worried about the yanks backend of the rotation, the sox backend is much worse. Also the yanks have closed the gap in bullpens and the yankees offense is much better. Even though they are 0-8 I still dont believe the red sox are a better team than the yanks.
Pat M,
Great observation. The Rays are better than the Red Sox. They really are.
If the back end of the rotation pitches up to snuff, the Yankees are also better than the Red Sox.
They have been shopping Brad Penny to EVERYBODY and nobody will bite.
Smoltz isn’t living up to the hype, nor will he.
Wake is on the DL with his usual second half back issues.
They really need Clay Buchholz to come up big for them or they are short in the rotation.
Their bullpen is solid but, their lineup is a bit short.
They are a good team but, none of the ESPN “experts” see them as the odd team out in a three team race.
However, if you look at the 3 teams (Sox, Yankees and Rays) are currently constructed, the Sox are the third best team.
That’s why I believe they will be active at the deadline because what they have right now is not good enough to hold up over the rest of the year, IMO.
SJ-So are we better than the Rays?
trisha – OPPC lifetime member
it’s actually the absence of being cheated by umpires
that gives them confidence to go about their business.
And going to the Sox provides extra confidence in beneficial umpire calls.
SJ agree completely
As much as they’ll never admit it, they really miss Manny’s bat, especially Poopi, who has been exposed.
Let’s face it, Bay’s a nice player, but he ain’t Manny.
JAP -
Randy Johnson could handle NY, and although he actually pitched decently
Nick Green in 2006 hit .240 with an OPS of .683 for the Yankees.
Nick Green in 2009 is hitting .249 with an OPS of .699 before today.
… he was the product of umpires.
Hey, at least Cesar Crespo performed like the bum that he was wih the Sox, and I think Roberto Petigine too
Head to head matchups, which fans and uneducated members of the media froth about, means less in baseball than any other sport.
The season is too long, you play too many games against other teams, and WHEN you play certain teams all mitigate head to head matchups.
The Yankees won every game against the Indians in 2007 and went down in flames in the ALDS.
They won 6 of 8 against the Tigers in 2006 and went down quickly in that ALDS.
They have won every season series against the Red Sox since 2003 and haven’t won a title.
They beat the Rays in the season series last year and got them no where.
All you need to know is this. The Yankees are 0-8 against the Sox this year and are one game ahead of them in the standings.
That tells you the Yankees are playing better against the rest of the league than the Sox.
Right now, being 8-0 against the Yankees has only kept the Sox close in the race. Its not given them an advantage.
I just watched Batting Satnce Guy do the Red Sox. He is hilarious.
JAB
What happened to the Celtics this year can happen to any team. Any team that loses their best player is going to have problems.
They also lost Powe who isn’t old.
TIE GAME!
Watch it go out Jason!!! Atta boy.
RANGERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I voted for him along with Panda.
1-1
Go Kinsler!!!
Again, the question is are we better than the Tampa Bay Rays?
Bucholz, our division is tough!
So Clay “the wunderkind” Bucholz doesn’t have a shutout?
But Buchholz is so great, don’t ya know.
Black armbands for ESPN
“Nick Green in 2006 hit .240 with an OPS of .683 for the Yankees.
Nick Green in 2009 is hitting .249 with an OPS of .699 before today.”
How many games did Green start for the Yankees? How many hits did Green get with RISP for the Yankees? How many runs did Green score for the Yankees?
Green was never a difference maker for the Yankees. He is for the Sux.
MaineYankee,
And the Lakers lost Bynum the year before, possibly costing them a title.
Garnett has played 40+ minutes a night for so many years, most of them with him being the only player on his team.
I think the Yankees and Rays are close. The Rays athleticism gives them a big advantage over both NY and Boston because they can make both teams look very old when they play them.
My question with Tampa is, can their bullpen hold up all year. Those guys are logging a lot of tough innings right now and I don’t know if they can hold up the rest of the way without reinforcements.
trisha – OPPC lifetime member
Exactly. A difference maker. Couldnt put it better myself.
He’s not a difference maker for the Sox. He got a couple of clutch hits in nationally televised games and folks have gone nuts over it.
Overall, he’s been coming down to earth for the past 3 weeks and is what he is…..a very average to below average player.
I might be out here by myself, but it wouldn’t be the first time, and I am quite comfortable being by myself.
The Yankees are the best team in the AL East. They had the potential to be from day one this season, certainly based on paper, and now they are playing up to their potential.
I guess I pay attention to the Yankees, knowing that if they get the job done what other teams do won’t matter.
The bullpen is the Rays’ achilles heel.
The starting pitching has not been as good as last year – Price is struggling.
If you’re depending on Randy Choate as a psuedo-closert, you better get reinforcements.
SJ, To further illustrate your point…..If you remove the 8 games that each team played vs. each other, the Yanks are 28-17 & Boston is 24-24 against teams with a .500 record or better……In the past 21 games , Boston is hitting .221 vs. right hand pitchers…Then you add their leadoff hitting woes, they rank 27th in MLB in both on base % as well as OBS …I’m not a stat guy as I go by what I see, however hanging out with CB, I’ve come to understand some of the more detailed markings in evaluating a club….I’ve been saying for some time, the Boston Red Sox are not as good as their record suggests…..
That said, I watch the Suxers constantly because I have a thing where I of course always want them to fail! But it never from a position of worry. Ever.
SJ44,
I know a lot of people say this and it’s not a good way to look at things, but
I have watched every Sox game on NESN this year. Nick has gotten hits that have directly won or helped them win 5 games this year.
SJ-I agree. The Yankees bullpen is fresher thanks to the late edition of Yuse so I think that may give us the edge.
Also, as great as the Rays lineup is, I think our lineup is even better (and deeper too).
GO BUCHOLZ YOURSELF HAHAHA
SJ – I beg to differ. He HAS been a difference maker for the Sux. And that’s the problem in a nutshell. If Nick Green is your difference maker, you are in trouble.
“That’s why I believe they will be active at the deadline because what they have right now is not good enough to hold up over the rest of the year, IMO.”
that’s exactly the feeling i’ve been having the past few days.
teams play differently when they feel under pressure and the yankees are putting the pressure on right now. it would be nice to see the red sox management choke and do something stupid.
i still wonder about them and halladay.
Bucholz is an ugly skinny beanpole of a kid but I like his 3-2 changeup confidence.
Again, I’m going to become a an advertisement for the batting stance guy. He is hilarious, you gotta watch him.
Veras just gave up a 3 run bomb to Scutaro
Boy I miss that guy…..
“GO BUCHOLZ YOURSELF”
How do you steal your own laptop?
“SJ44,
I know a lot of people say this and it’s not a good way to look at things, but
I have watched every Sox game on NESN this year. Nick has gotten hits that have directly won or helped them win 5 games this year.”
THANK YOU JAP! I think SJ either says things to say them sometimes or decides that if I say one thing, he will automatically say the opposite.
I too have watched every Sox game on NESN this year. And I too have seen what Green has done with my own eyes.
SJ – here’s one for you. BLACK!
Now you can say white.
Pat M,
Once Jason Bay stopped hitting like Manny, its had a trickle down effect on the lineup.
Ortiz has been hot lately but, Youk and Pedroia are getting pitched much tougher and its showing. Lowell is hurting bigtime.
Going into tonight, JD Drew is 1 for his last 30. Varitek hits the occasional HR when he guesses right. Other than that, he hasn’t done much.
Nick Green isn’t an offensive force. Yes, he’s gotten a few big hits but, he’s also hitting .210 over the last month. In other words, he’s come down to earth.
I look at Tampa and NY and I don’t see the Sox offense as potent as those two teams.
I look at the back end of their rotation and its weak.
Love their bullpen but, you can’t just win with a bullpen alone.
If their pitching doesn’t shutdown NY and Tampa, they don’t win the shootouts like they used to at this stage of the year.
That’s why I think Theo needs to find more offense. Without it, he’s got an uphill battle against NY and Tampa if both teams stay healthy and productive.
You guys are going to love this:
Cleveland announcers were talking about the municipal workers’ strike in Toronto, and the fact that garbage is piling up all over the city.
They then mentioned the similar strike in NYC in the ’70′s.
“How could you tell? It looks like that even when there’s no strike,” said one the Cleveland announcer.
This coming from someone who lives in Cleveland? Cleveland, where a river literally caught on fire due to the insane amount of pollution.
I’d like to punch the guy right in the face.
I think the Sox are very good. They’re in a slump right now and will come out of it.
I’m not too concerned about the division anyway as long as we win wildcard.
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/ne.....;type=lgns
a bobble head for Manny? The guy comes back and everyone treats him like god.
I still want to know why Alex was treated to the Spanish Inquisition, when Manny goes um Duh I don’t want to talk about it. And it is all over.
Cleveland has it’s own issues. I heard they’re turning centerfield into a zoo at their ballpark. Every time a ball goes into one of the cages the umpires call it an out for the opponent and a game winning hit for Cleveland.
Trisha,
A guy who is hitting just over .200 in the last 6 weeks isn’t a difference maker.
Like I said, he’s gotten a few big hits in high profile games and people have gone nuts over it.
Overall though, he is what he has been his entire career. A below average hitter and average fielder.
He’s another guy that the more he plays, the more his flaws come to the forefront.
Another example is Jason Bay. His first 100 games as a Red Sox were Manny-like in production. However, he’s now come back down to earth and is just Jason Bay again. Good player, not Manny. That makes the middle of their order much less imposing.
They have ONE difference maker in their lineup: Ortiz, if Ortiz is right. They have Youk and Pedroia, very good players, not difference makers.
The rest of their lineup can be pitched to and has been over the last month. That’s why their numbers have dropped so dramatically.
If Nick Green, or any of the other guys, were true difference makers, their numbers would be falling off the cliff as fast as they are.
The Riverdogs are throwing a no-hitter in the 9th inning against the Greensboro Grasshoppers, with Cory Arbiso. He has two walks, but no hits allowed, as the Riverdogs lead 5-0.
Here is the link to the audio for the game:
http://www.riverdogs.com/media/broadcast/
SJ44
I wonder if Henry got hurt alot with the trouble on Wall Street. They had the money off the books from Manny but they didn’t make any big moves in the offseason.
All the moves they made looked more like small market team moves. Not what a team trying to win would do.
All these losers do is whine about calls. Hideki got completely screwed in every at bat today and didnt complain once. And ESPN rewards them by mentioning it and suggesting KZone be seen.
http://tinyurl.com/manny-bobble
if nick green is the red sox shortstop all year, i’d say i’d like that.
he’s a utility player.
that’s a weakness for them if he’s starting.
Wait, I think the Sox are an okay team, I agree they’re in a slump and will come out of it, and then they’ll start to play better.
There is no question in my mind that the Yankees are a far superior team and will win the division. But I have thought that from the first day, and I never wavered from that position, even when the Yankees were slumping and some posters were swooning over the Sux and their lead over the Yanks.
So one thing we know for sure is that you and I don’t look at those things the same at all.
But there is one statement you made with which I entirely agree. If it were to come to the Yankees taking the division or the wild card, as long as they are in the playoffs it’s all good.
SJ44-I disagree. Youk and Pedroia can definitely be difference makers. Youkilis is an outstanding player.
jennifer -
I don’t get it. I was watching some sports show this a.m. and they were showing a game from Dodger Stadium and there’s a permanent sign on the left field wall that says “Mannywood.” Unbelievable.
maine yankee-
i think henry was hurt long before last october . he clearly doesn’t have the resources he used to have.
SJ….The one thing I’ve noticed with Jason Bay, is he’s developed that Fenway uppercut swing…He drops his right shoulder, and his hands are about 2 inches lower than before….Besides, JD Drew is long overdue for his annual summer vacation on the DL….As much as Joba is a key for the Yanks, Bucholtz has as least if not more riding on his right arm for Boston…..
SJ, I think you are not understanding the way JAP and I are using “difference maker.” I am not saying that is who Nick Green is as a player. I am not saying it defines him in any way, shape, or form. I AM saying that I’ve watched them the entire season, and he has kicked Bucholz for them.
Yes he has come down to earth, but so has the entire team.
SJ44,
I disagree with a couple things. Green has made the most important difference in at least 5 wins for the Sox this year. Whether or not he finally fails like he should is irrelevant. Green couldnt win games for anybody but the Sox.
I dont think PEDroia is great, but PEDroia and Youk are MVP/MVP candidate.
Contrast what I wrote above with the Yankee lineup:
Jeter is a difference maker.
Tex is a difference maker.
Arod is the ultimate difference maker.
Posada is a difference maker because of the offensive production you get from the catchers spot.
You have guys like Cano, Damon and Matsui who, if they are hot, are tough to pitch to. Not difference makers per se but, guys that wear out pitchers.
The Sox used to have a lineup that deep. They don’t anymore.
That’s why their pitching is going to have to carry them unless they get more offensive help.
auh look Nick they even put the ‘it that he has on the front of his helmet. Where is the needle coming out of his butt. That would have made it more authentic.
there is that hittable fastball from Buchholz…
if hitters guess right with him, they’ll do alright.
It’s when he gets ahead and his changeup is working that he can be dominant.
i said last winter that things would be different with manny gone for youkillis and pedroia.
neither of them is good enough to be the man.
they’re good complimentary players , but not superstars by any means.
There are probably nine or ten American League teams that wish they were the Red Sox.
However, the Angels, Rangers, Yankees and Rays are all probably pretty glad that they’re not.
BTW, the Rangers’ GM looks like he’s about my age.
“SJ44,
I disagree with a couple things. Green has made the most important difference in at least 5 wins for the Sox this year. Whether or not he finally fails like he should is irrelevant. Green couldnt win games for anybody but the Sox.”
——-
let’s see then.
give him the 5 games he helped win…
minus the 5 games he cost them with his defense, and the 4 games he cost them with his poor hitting…
he’s only cost them 4 games so far!
not bad
Scranton rained out.
Montero is 2-5 with a double and 2 RBI and 1 strikeout.
Ryan Pope has a line of 7 innings, 2 hits, 0 runs, 1 walk, 7 strikeouts.
trisha-You’re right. We do look at itt differently.
I consider myself uncharacteristically optimistic when it comes to the Yanks. However I’m trying to look at it objectively; as a fan of any other team, what would I think? And I have to say I’d pick the Sox to win the division as the teams are constructed right now.
That being said I never called the division race “over” when they fell out of it a bit (they have every chance to win the division, and I would not be shocked if they did) and I consider them a playoff team. They are fun to watch.
I always thought the whole “can’t beat 1st place teams” arguement was stupid. Their job is not to beat first place teams, it’s to make the playoffs. Once they’re there, as it’s been proven before, anything can happen. And I think this is a team that can make some hay in October.
You’re right SJ44. Green is a below, below-average player. But he has made the direct difference in several wins for the Sox this year. That’s all Trisha and I were saying.
Don’t worry, Josh Hamilton is gonna hit a walkoff HR.
You heard it here first.
SJ, I think you are using “difference maker” in a way that neither JAP nor I are meaning it.
We are not saying that as a major league baseball player, Nick Green is known to be a difference maker to whatever team he plays for. We are saying that Nick Green this season has kicked Bucholz for the Sux, and he has definitely helped them to win games. In that respect there is not a question that he has been their difference maker. The fact that he has hit 200 over the past 5 weeks doesn’t take away what he has done for them the rest of the time!
Heck Nancy Drew has only hit .196 for the entire month of July. You may have noticed that the entire team is slumping.
Now it doesn’t mean that Green will be their go to guy the rest of the season (though he has been their difference maker tonight.) It also doesn’t mean that he is an above average player by nature. It does mean that he didn’t do a heck of a lot for the Yankees but turned into an MVP when he hit Boston.
Pedroia and Youk aren’t MVP candidates this year unless all of Boston is handling the voting.
Check out Youk’s numbers since June 10. They are Swisher like. Not impressive.
He’s a good player. So is Pedroia. They aren’t difference makers.
Neither guy is a middle of the order, 35, 130, .320 guy like Manny or Ortiz was when they were dominating the league.
They are very, very good players who, if surrounded by difference makers, take advantage of the pitches they get to hit.
Once THEY become the difference makers, and are pitched much tougher, their games drop a bit.
That’s why there are few difference makers in the game and why they get the big bucks.
Its not a fluke the Yankees have the best record in baseball since Arod came back. He’s a true difference maker.
He makes everybody in that lineup better because of his presence in it.
The same can’t be said for Youk and Pedroia.
Montero 2-5 with a double…
That kid is unreal.
JAP
July 22nd, 2009 at 9:27 pm
SJ44,
I disagree with a couple things. Green has made the most important difference in at least 5 wins for the Sox this year. Whether or not he finally fails like he should is irrelevant. Green couldnt win games for anybody but the Sox.
I dont think PEDroia is great, but PEDroia and Youk are MVP/MVP candidate
——————————————————-
Green also makes a differece when he throws a routine ground ball into the stands to allow the winning run to score.
Good point Boston Dave, but I’m not sure how you’d quantify that.
Randy I, And then you throw in Ortiz and his slower bat and you have outs throughout the lineup….I’m not burying the BoSox, what I’ve been saying is that they were white hot during the first 50 games or so…If they stay with what they have for the remainder of the season, they may not be playing come October……
Damn feel bad for the players in Scranton. They just can’t catch a break. They get rainouts, games that can’t be played cause the field is flooded.
BTW what is the deal with the Scranton field?
2-1 Texas!
SJ-When Youk and Pedroia get hot they are legitimate MVP candidates every year and are tremendous players. Especially Youk. Youkilis is a great, great player. I wouldn’t trade him for Tex but when he’s hot he is ON FIRE. He could be a difference maker.
Sometimes its hard do define baseball cliches
one person’s “difference maker” is another’s “role player”
What’s Punky Brewster’s pitch count?
“I always thought the whole “can’t beat 1st place teams” arguement was stupid. Their job is not to beat first place teams, it’s to make the playoffs. Once they’re there, as it’s been proven before, anything can happen. And I think this is a team that can make some hay in October.”
Abso-bucholzn-lutely!
I’m also someone who believes that the hot hand does the best job in October.
OH MY LORD YOU RANGERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That was sooooo sweet.
SJ44,
Excellent points. I agree with just about all of it, but I bet Theo and Peter Gammons and FOX, Joe Buck dont.
3-1 Texas!
Montero may be unreal but some dude from Charleston is pitching a no-no…
http://web.minorleaguebaseball.....x_gboafx_1
“Good point Boston Dave, but I’m not sure how you’d quantify that.”
——-
me neither… but it’s not fair to say Green has helped the Sox win 5 games without considering that he has also cost them x amount of games because of his poor defense and his below average bat.
bottom line: he’s not that good
2 for Texas!
The umpire helps the Sox again
Rebecca-I know.
But Montero is a Bucholzin’ monster.
Clay is at 77 pitches
is a new season of Nip/Tuck coming soon?
There does appear to be a semantic difference in the way “difference maker” is being used. I think we can all agree that we hope tonight Nick Green will be the difference maker between losing with a run scored and being shut out.
Wait til they come:
I’m Montero Fanaticus Primus for a reason!
Nick Green also has cost them 3 games I know of off the top of my head with his glove.
He is what he is. He has played ok for the Sox. He’s cooled off considerably since May, when he was playing well over his head.
Folks forget the routine groundball he threw away in Seattle that would have been the third out and win for the Sox that ended up with a Seattle walkoff win.
Or another throwing error that cost them a game against the A’s prior to the break.
When guys like Green do something well, people only remember that. They don’t remember the bad plays.
Its natural because its unusual for a guy with his skills to do well in given situations.
Overall though, he basically is what he is and that’s a weakness for the Sox when stacked up against the other SS’s in the division.
S.A.–Serenity Now
July 22nd, 2009 at 9:37 pm
Clay is at 77 pitches
pedestrian
Can’t wait to see how Buchholz’s lousy performance is spun by NESPN and Gammons tonight.
He’s a very good youg pitcher, but you really have to question whether the Red Sox look at him as a true No. 1 starter.
His changeup and curve are excellent when on, but when he can’t locate them, his fastball – which is straight as an arrow – gets creamed.
I still want to know why Alex was treated to the Spanish Inquisition, when Manny goes um Duh I don’t want to talk about it. And it is all over.
==========================
I think they are waiting for Manny’s pregnancy to be over? Then they will be harder on him?
Cory Arbiso is our 22nd rd. pick from 08′ whether he gets it or not is up to him.
Not saying this is wrong, but I do believe that SJ is an extremely literal person. I tend to be more cliche-ish with this things. JAP totally understood what I meant. SJ is well thought out and gives copious explanations to back up what he is saying. I think that is totally righteous by the way and I respect it.
My style is to known what I mean and then only bother to explain it if someone is totally disagreeing with my position. Might not be the best way to do business, but what a high when someone else understands your shorthand!
Thanks JAP. Bod also always gets exactly what I’m saying without me having to connect all the dots. That works real well when you want people to intuit what you mean.
Mesa Puestador with another Homer
Scutaro to the Sox?
That’s the Rumor I’m starting. I would not like to see that.
Buchholz at 81 pitches and counting through 3 1/3
yikes!
Nobody wanted to confront Manny during his bad time of the month.
No no gone.
nice, i get to bombard my friend who was saying that Joba is a 5 inning pitcher after Clepto’s performance
His performance isn’t lousy until he allows the fourth run.
He will.
Damn Youk!
He is a real good player. I don’t begrudge him good play since I have him on my fantasy team. In fact, I encourage it. As long as his team is on the losing end of the score for the evening, heck, he can light up the stadium!!!
trisha-Intuit. Nice word.
The Rangers should check Clay’s suitcase before he leaves. Gotta make sure he isn’t taking any laptops.
“Scutaro to the Sox?
That’s the Rumor I’m starting. I would not like to see that.”
I also would not be happy with that move. Good that’s it’s only your rumor! Lucky for us, they’re in love with Lowrey.
Bucholtz is a difference maker too… for some Bostonians, he made the difference between having laptops and not…
Thanks for the premium ice cream conversation earlier. It sounded so good, I took the family to the local creamery (actually a chain). Only thing is when we came out, it was pouring.
Word play today?
How about he “Buckhole stops here”
Absolutely SJ44, I generally remember the good things he does, but I do remember the defensive errors that have cost them.
I’ve been seeing the positive he’s done, because generally, bums dont win games offensively while they are costing games defensively. Nick has managed to do so.
That said, I wish the Sox had 9 Greens in the batting order.
No hitter is gone in the 9th inning, as the Dogs had to put a new pitcher, Chuck Nolte in over Cory Arbiso.
4IP, 90 pitches
In defense of both Bucholz and Beckett it can’t be real easy to go and pitch a game when your offense is hitting all of .196. That’s when you have to be sure that every pitch you throw is a perfect pitch. You can’t pitch your own game, you have to pitch to the score. It’s easy to get hit that way.
Nick in SF
LMAO
“I’ve been seeing the positive he’s done, because generally, bums dont win games offensively while they are costing games defensively. Nick has managed to do so.”
Exactly right.
OH Lowrie is back. I’m stickin with my rumor anyways what the Hay
Wait -
thanks!
Sorry but 90 pitches through 4 innings, giving up 3 runs and nine baserunners is a lousy performance.
The Rangers aren’t even a team that takes a lot of pitches. He’s been very lucky the damage hasn’t been worse.
trisha,
Didn’t we go through the same thing, though?
But I’ll give Bucky some props. Can’t be easy pitching knowing if you lose, you’ll be 2 GB of the Dreaded Empire.
Uncle Ellsworth
July 22nd, 2009 at 9:39 pm
Scutaro to the Sox?
That’s the Rumor I’m starting. I would not like to see that.
————————————————
I did hear tonight that they might be trying to get the SS from Pit.
1. From what I’ve read, Henry lost a boatload of money in the market. I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s counting his spare change. I can’t imagine that the Sox will be free spending.
2. The Sox traded for La Roche and Chris Duncan. Maybe that is their offense upgrade.
Hard hit balls right at people. Doesnt that look familiar!!!
By the way, Ive asked a couple times, did anyone think Hideki got cheated moreso than everyone else in his at bats today??
5 pitches and 2 outs for Nippert this inning
JAP-Yeah, I did.
rconn23
July 22nd, 2009 at 9:38 pm
Can’t wait to see how Buchholz’s lousy performance is spun by NESPN and Gammons tonight.
He’s a very good youg pitcher, but you really have to question whether the Red Sox look at him as a true No. 1 starter.
His changeup and curve are excellent when on, but when he can’t locate them, his fastball – which is straight as an arrow – gets creamed.
————————————–
He is a nice young pitcher but he is way overhyped. The majority of his fastball are 91-92. He does have a nice changeup though. If this was Joba pitching like Bucholtz is tonight on espn they would be killing Joba and want him sent to the bullpen.
Gammons is a joke he basically laughed at the thought that Joba has big trade value. But Bucholtz is enough to get you Victor Marintez or Adrian Gonzalez. Chamberlain has been a much better starter than Bucholtz and is 2 years younger.
Nippert is making the Red Sox offense look like…
well…
the Red Sox offense
I’m considering changin my screen name to Rocy Road Redemption, either here or on RAB. What do you guys think?
This can’t be the real Trisha can it, showing a soft side for the Red Sox?
Oh, and point 3 –
I am beginning to wonder if the Red Sox Dynasty, such as it was, if slip-sliding away….
This is both sad and inspirational, but another Nick Green was a real difference maker in death:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_Green
Put Buchholz in the Pen
SJ, thanks for the response re: AJ. I loved his attitude coming in – he wanted to stay in the AL East because he was familiar with the hitters and enjoyed pitching in the passionate environments of Boston, NY, etc.. That was very revealing – he could have gone to Atlanta and the much easier National League. Also, he has taken to being a Yankee very much (just read his quotes …and look at how he enjoyed Old Timer’s Day ) and I think that helps. Instead of being intimidated by it, he’s been able to thrive, using the emotion in a positive way (the exceptions being the Boston games- I think AJ put pressure on himself to do well because now he’s in the middle of a white hot rivalry)
As to Doc, if the owners are hamstringing JP, it’s not JP’s fault. I think the Jays are foolish, esp. if they are really going to trade a bunch of players and start over. Who cares if Doc ends up facing them a bunch of times? It’s not like the Jays will be winning anything anytime soon. They will never have another chance like this again – trading Halladay could net them some very good prospects that could keep them competitive for a long time. Would they rather be prideful and end up like the Twins? How do the Twins fans feel about getting a bunch of nothing for Santana? Of course, I realize that if Jays ownership unties JP’s hands, that brings the Sox into it as well…scary
And Beckett deserves no sympathy. He’s an ace right? Top 10 in baseball right?
Awww, poor Grass Bucholz. I wonder what excuses Peter and Ken and Joe will make for him aroudn baseball. Maybe it’s that the Rangers team is great offensively and Bucholz battled like an ace to only give up 3 runs when he could have given up 6.
Laps is on a pitch count? 90 pitches/4 IP.
Boy did Bucholz suck.
Regarding one of Pat M’s posts earlier, about JP and the Jays ownership debating deals for Halladay….
I still think money rules. It does in every other business/industry. By that rule, JP needs to cut payroll, that is the most important thing if they’re not going to bring in revenue by being in the playoffs, and they’re not.
I wonder if Cash is looking at trying to pry Rios away, either alone or in combo with a pitcher, either Doc or one of the bullpen. They have some good relief pitchers, IMO.
I will never understand the mentality of not trading Halladay within the division IF that’s the best offer you can get for him.
Its tough enough to trade your best player. To trade him short, rather than taking a better package because its a divisional opponent, makes no sense.
I’ll believe the Phillies will blow up their farm system to get Doc when I see it. In this day and age, that’s very tough to do.
Even the Sox have an issue if Buchholz is the main guy in any Halladay talks. If the Yankees ever put Joba on the table, that trumps it immediately.
If you get the Yankees and Red Sox bidding against one another, if you are the Jays that is, you have a chance to extract a better package.
By eliminating both teams from the mix, you aren’t going to make the other teams pay a ransom for the guy.
Nick Green just made a difference.
Must run on Varitek at all time Yanks
SJ-You think they’d put Hughes on the table? I’d think they’d have to if they’d be willing to put Joba on the table.
OMG – ESPN admits “they’re running wild on Varitek”!
Well, when it’s that obvious….
Delcarmen getting hit.
Byrd got hit by the batted ball?
^huh?
http://www.newsday.com/sports/.....?track=rss
Nice article on Phil….
Doreen, go to Philly – it’s a really wonderful city in every way
Good grief. Why do people care so much about what Peter Gammons says?
It says more about the people who let him bother them than it does about Gammons himself.
People do the same thing with Francesa. Everyone thinks he’s an idiot (which he is) but they still listen to his stupid show and report everything he says on these boards.
It’s like crack. Everyone knows that stuff will fry your brain but they continue to eat it up.
Doesn’t make any sense to me at all.
We absolutely went through the same thing. I was just making an objective statement dealing with trying to pitch with no offense to back you up.
“This can’t be the real Trisha can it, showing a soft side for the Red Sox?”
They stink. Even though it’s them, I do have a sympathy thing going on for lousy playing. Right now they are down right awful!
“Byrd got hit by the batted ball?”
Dave Winfield has an alibi!
“Nippert is making the Red Sox offense look like…
well…
the Red Sox offense”
Franco-Gammons and Francessa give us the view of “the casual uneducated fan” (Francessa) and “Red Sox fan” (Gammons).
Gives us a look at the other side.
I think Hughes and Montero are untouchable. Everybody else would be in play.
Fans love ALL prospects. Management however, sees things differently. They basically have 2-3 guys who are off limits. Everybody else is available in the right deal. Every team operates this way.
Toronto won’t acquire anybody in this trade as good as Chamberlain. That’s why management tying JP’s hands and preventing him from trying to bid up both NY and Boston makes little sense.
Who knows, perhaps Cash can figure something out to get Rios or Wells if Toronto wants to pick up a good chunk of that contract. I tend to think that’s going to be tough though.
The Yankees do need a RH hitting OF who can catch the ball. Whether that’s a high end guy or a good supplemental player remains to be seen.
One of my favorite things is complaining about what the general media thinks. Its just something to complain about and get fired up about. I don’t really get fired up about the yankees (negatively I mean) because I understand baseball is a long season, so its just something to vent on.
Plus what they say is sooo stupid
They don’t offer any “look” of anything. They are just guys getting paid a lot of money to spout nonsense.
Which, at this stage of both their careers, they do quite well considering so many people hang on their every word..
SJ44:
I had a dream that we acquired Halladay/Rios for Melky, Z-mac, Romine, and 1 or 2 other guys. As I am a registered Kallawacha County Shaman, this is undoubtedly going to happen
SJ-Why do you consider Hughes an untouchable but not Joba?
I’ve heard this from a lot of people and I find it strange. Joba has outperformed Hughes their entire career until this half season, in faact really until Hughes went into the pen, yet because of half a season people rank Hughes higher than Joba despite the entire rest of their careers.
How infantile is Steve Summers. Calls Yankee Stadium Yanker stadium. Talk about pandering to the lowest common denominator.
SJ-I disagree. Tons of people agree with both of them, there’s a reason.
“Hughes has not allowed a run in his last 14 outings, including yesterday’s 6-4 win over Baltimore, when he allowed one hit and struck out one in the eighth inning. He has not allowed a run in his last 20 innings, dating to June 10 at Boston.
According to the Elias Sports Bureau, that is the longest single-season scoreless stretch for a Yankees relief pitcher since Mariano Rivera went 23 innings in 2005,
Hughes’ success has helped transform a bullpen that was just short of a total disaster into something with which to be reckoned. Through 16 relief appearances, Hughes has a 0.81 ERA with 28 strikeouts in 221/3 innings. Suddenly, Hughes and Rivera are the most effective relief combination in the game.”
ATTROCIOUS, JUST ATTROCIOUS
I enjoy when the Yankees are in first place because the Anti-Yankee contingent in the national media loses their collective minds. Especially when its a fun team to watch, as this year’s team is so far.
It makes them nuts and they just say the dumbest stuff imaginable to get a rise out of people.
Anybody in the media that even has a scintilla of baseball smarts knows this is the best team the Yankees have had in the last 5 years.
They aren’t a perfect team but, its a very, very good team.
http://www.nj.com/yankees/inde.....nd_th.html
LOL that’s great….although, I’ve never seen Dumb and Dumber, so I have no clue what they are talking about.
SJ, Yanks will be needing at least 1 maybe 2 outfielders next season….Bay & Holiday are not options…Nor should Nick Swisher be…
Giuseppe Franco
People care about what Peter Gammmons says because he has a say with baseball executives and other baseball people. These GMs and baseball people dont realize that Peter is biased. They just think he’s a Hall of Famer. All the prospects that get built up make it more likely for them to cash in on some of their bum prospects.
WEEI night host went up one side of Nancy and down the other tonight. He was beside himself with Nancy’s play in the month of July. I guess Nancy has the worst July average on the entire team.
http://riveraveblues.com/
LOL @ Jesus Montero and the sign
“LOL that’s great….although, I’ve never seen Dumb and Dumber, so I have no clue what they are talking about.”
You never saw Dumb & Dumber
“Once THEY become the difference makers, and are pitched much tougher, their games drop a bit.”
that’s a perfect way of putting it.
SJ44 – You obviously know the industry a lot better than me, but I’ve thought that if the Yankees are willing to take Rios along with Doc, it only makes logical sense for the Jays to do that deal.
It helps both teams – isn’t that the sign of a good deal?
It helps the Yanks in that they acquire a top notch pitcher, and a very good corner OF who has the potential for improvement, if KLong can work with him. And Rios is young enough, and under contract for a few more years so you know the cost. A lot less than Wells.
It helps the Jays in that they unload a lot of payroll, which is real important if the team is being prepped for sale, which it may well be in the wake of Mr. Rogers death.
And the Yanks have the money, what with the new Stadium. Now, Cash may need to sell Hal on it, but given the regard Hal has for Cash and Cash’s understanding of the issues for Hal, it may happen.
All is takes is JP and the Jays realizing what works best for them, and not emotion. Basing business decisions on emotion seems like a bad thing to do.
JAP: Gammo isnt even a hall of famer. He is a spink award winner. Thats the most annoying thing.
Wait: Hughes is untouchable over Joba because while Joba has great stuff, Hughes had an absolutely unbelievable minor league run. All he did was get K’s, groundballs, while allowing few hits and walking only 2 per 9. Compared to top starting prospects in history it was epic success.
Joba is an injury risk with a higher potential ceiling(in terms of dominance) but Hughes is a better bet to be a #1 type starter.
Once he got his fastball back Hughes became the real deal
JAP July 22nd, 2009 at 10:13 pm
Giuseppe Franco
People care about what Peter Gammmons says because he has a say with baseball executives and other baseball people. These GMs and baseball people dont realize that Peter is biased. They just think he’s a Hall of Famer. All the prospects that get built up make it more likely for them to cash in on some of their bum prospects.
—————
No, it doesn’t work that way.
GMs around baseball aren’t idiots. They know who Gammons is and they know him a whole lot better than the fans do.
Organizations have their own people and scouts to evaluate talent. They don’t rely on Gammons for that.
SJ44,
After Sanchez’ no hitter, they were talking and mentioned about Wells and Cone “no hitting minor league teams.”
But no mention of the minor league Royals and “Mo” Lester.
“Tons” of people don’t agree with them.
In fact, “tons” of people laugh at them.
Peter Gammons went from being a legitimate HOF journalist to a Red Sox fan talking about the Red Sox 24/7, and carrying Theo’s water by overhyping every Red Sox prospect, on ESPN.
Mike Francesa has mailed in his show for years. Now, without a sidekick, everybody sees how little he actually knows.
Media critics have a field day replaying how many incorrect things the man says on a daily basis.
Nobody with functioning braincells listens to Mike Francesa and actually thinks he knows anything.
Peter Gammons at least KNOWS baseball. Mike Francesa does not.
Peter is also a nice guy. Mike is not. That’s why he unabashed support for everything Red Sox doesn’t bother me too much.
Listening to Francesa trash the Yankees with nonsensical rants on things he knows nothing about is comical.
Jerkface-Injury risk? He got shoulder tendinitis once.
I don’t buy it.
One more thing – if the Yanks are willing to take on some of the Jays’ payroll (Doc plus Rios), then the players the have to give back becomes a lesser package of talent. The Jays cannot get payroll relief and quality young talent at the same time.
Giuseppe Franco,
I wish I could believe that.
Peter Gammons is a HOF and is respected in the baseball community. When he says something, baseball people listen.
I really had wanted to watch the season premier of Toddlers and Tiaras. It is a show I watch with the frozen horror that one would have watching a train wreck. For some reason you can’t turn away. It is an entire way of life that I know exists but is so alien to everything I know and beleive that I’m am in disbelief that it really does exist.
Anyway, I am thinking that I am kind of watching it now. The Sux are the toddlers tonight and the Rangers are wearing the tiaras!
Jerkface
I’m not so sure about your Hughes/Chamberlain comparison.
Chamberlain made a mockery of the minor leagues.
He has better stuff but the knock on him is more in his head than anything else.
I’m not advocating keeping one over the other (I’d like to keep both) but until Hughes succeeds as a starter (I do think he will), you cannot give Hughes a clear nod of Chamberlain.
We care what Peter Gammons says because he’s supposed to be unbiased.
He doesn’t even pretend any more, so he’s open game as far as I’m concerned.
If we could buy what he’s selling, then maybe we’d take him seriously.
But he’s nothing but a Red Sox shill collecting a check from the worldwide leader.
And the fact that he would stump for and accept the position of the president of a Red Sox fan club shows that he’s hardly a fair and biased baseball correspondent anymore.
over Chamberlain*
SJ44-Clearly you DON’T listen to Francessa. He can be stupid sometimes, but he’s not a Red Sox fan. He really is a Yankees fan. Just not a diehard. He knows what he’s talking about more than people think. And he’s entertaining, which is most important.
Gammons is a Sox lover but he gives a good view of “the other side” as seen from their POV.
Wait till they come to OUR house AGAIN – He has had weight problems and knee surgery. Not a good combination. (in college)
ummm..you know the BJays aren’t really in a hurry to deal Rios right?
I keep on laughing here w/ ppl thinking JP will deal Doc within the division. He’ll be in the NL by next week.
randy
What are you doing to get everyone mad down there. Their all coming up hear.
Whatever it is, stop it. There’s to many here.
Hughes was also made a mockery of the minor leagues, so that’s hardly a point in Joba’s favor.
Everybody in baseball knows Peter’s biases. He’s a nice guy and that’s the biggest difference between he and Francesa.
That said, even Theo Espstein doesn’t take player personnel advice from Peter. Teams evaluate players. They don’t need members of the media to help them in that area.
Jerkface-But since then no knee issues at all, only a brief bout of shoulder tendinitis.
The whole issues with his head thing is bucholz. People only said that when they were looking for someone to blame when he struggled.
Boston Dave: Chamberlain has a higher ceiling but he has much more he needs to do to overcome it. He doesn’t work as hard as Phil Hughes. Remember 1 spring trainings ago when Hughes was participating in the Clemens/Pettitte Navy Seal Spring training program and outrunning everyone in spring training?
Chamberlain has had weight issues, knee surgery, and doesn’t have the minor league track record that Hughes has.
Hughes DOMINATED the minors… with 2 pitches. One he learned IN THE YANKEES SYSTEM.
I wouldn’t trade Joba or Hughes, let me be clear on that. They will be a very sick 3/4 punch for us with AJ and CC next season and in the future.
Wait till they come to OUR house AGAIN
Really? #1 he doesn’t know what he is talking about. He doesn’t know prospects in the system until they are staring him in the face.
#2 what Yankee fan in their right mind would hope that Doc goes to the soxs? I’m hoping he goes to the Phillies. He is a moron, can’t stand him.
Not to bring the forum into the “real world” but you’ll hear both things sooner or later. Bin Laden’s son has been killed and one of Mattingly’s sons has been arrested.
That’s what I get for suring the net!
surfing the net
Stop force feeding Bruney. Melancon deserves opportunity, he is a stud and our future SU man/closer. Give him high leverage innings and let him prove that he is that.
Wait,
I’ve known Mike Francesa for 20 years. I know the show, the format, the schtick, the whole deal.
He does ZERO prep for that show these days.
He’s not a Yankee “fan” in the sense that he looks to inform the audience about the Yankees or baseball in general.
He just gives you nonsense and his minions eat it up.
When called on stuff, such as the Hughes and/or Chamberlain stuff, he embarrasses himself with his lack of knowledge.
He’s a joke now. A laughing stock in the industry.
jennifer-But if you know he said that you were listening to him, right? By the way, he never said he hoped Doc would go to the Sox (maybe you weren’t listening to him).
Francessa has his own opinions and some are stupid, but him being opinionated is what makes him interesting.
James Shields hasn’t really been helping out my fantasy team very much.
Actually it’s the relief that couldn’t hold the game. Tie score.
“Hughes DOMINATED the minors… with 2 pitches. One he learned IN THE YANKEES SYSTEM.”
———
jerkface,
what were Joba’s minor league #s?
SJ44,
I disagree. Not every team has great scouting. There are plenty of teams that cant build from within, like say the Pirates.
Whats impressive about Joba is that he is being forced to mature in the majors, and he is actually doing a decent job at it. But he also has shown his struggles. He never struggled in the minors.
Hughes has spent a couple of seasons in the minors. And his ‘type’ is a better kind of projectable in my opinion. Hughes succeeds with impeccable command of 2 dominating pitches. Joba doesnt have nearly the command but has 4 pitches that are ready to go *right now* (Including 2 plus ones)
He needs to stay in shape, listen to his coaches, and he will dominate
Gammons looks like the cryptkeeper.
“He needs to stay in shape, listen to his coaches, and he will dominate”
——-
I agree. I think both will be solid.
I just don’t see clear evidence (yet) of your claim that Hughes is more likely to be a solid #1 starter than Joba.
Boston Dave: Joba did well in a limited sample in the minors. In a much larger sample hughes has a better WHIP H/9 HR/9 BB/9. Joba has a better K/9
And they arent that far apart. Hughes did it younger, and for longer.
SJ-Really? That’s interesting (want to be clear, this is not sarcasm). Did you know him personally (as in met him) or just the show?
I always watch him with a grain of salt, knowing I’ll get entertaining controversy but not necessarily well thought out, researched opinion. You can’t look at it as an “intellectual” show, you just have to be entertained. And a surprising amount of the time, I am.
Kay’s radio show is MUCH better than Francessa’s.
It may not be as lively and humorous because Kay actually knows his stuff, he doesn’t spew moronic drivel to get callers riled up and he lets his callers talk.
The thing that is scary is all the people that call in and agree with Francesa.
SJ, I’ve said that this is the best Yankee club since 2003…well balanced….Peter Gammons changed his personna once the Sox won in 04 & he survived his stroke….He saw the big Yawkey in the sky…He’s been a homer ever since…..
Whtie Sox lead Tampa, 4-3 now
The Rangers keep running on Tekky. Crying from the ESPeeN announcers about it. Pretty sad.
“The thing that is scary is all the people that call in and agree with Francesa.”
We call those people “Francessa cronies/minions”.
I just don’t see clear evidence (yet) of your claim that Hughes is more likely to be a solid #1 starter than Joba.
–
I just go off of command, work ethic, and body type. Joba is shorter and fatter. He doesn’t have the same work ethic. He has a troubled family history.
Hughes is a big dork. A 6’5 dork with an incredibly lean and fit body that he maintains in the offseason.
From a pure pitching standpoint, Joba has more upside than Hughes.
However, it takes more than talent to reach your potential.
If Joba can harness his ego, work really hard at his conditioning in the off-season and become more coachable and catchable, the sky is the limit for him.
Hughes is already the fitter, more coachable and more catchable guy.
Together? Both have the potential to be special.
However, if the Yankees had a choice of which guy to deal to get Doc, it would be Joba, IMO, for the reasons I listed above.
This is a terrific Yankee club.
“I know Girardi likes Swisher. I also know he wishes he didn’t have to play him everyday.”
Well that’s not necessarily true, just speculation.
I do agree, it’d be nice to have Nady.
Brandon, nope – never seen it. I’m not much of a movie person – though I love dumb, silly comedies.
Kay’s show is more balanced than Francesa’s because he has a sidekick to work off of. Its impossible for anybody, even Mike, to pull off 5+ hours of radio by yourself.
It just doesn’t make for a good listen.
Kay’s show is more listenable because he puts his ego aside and lets his guests and co-host, speak.
Mike can’t do that. He doesn’t even try to at this point.
Its why his show is unlistenable.
Question: What’s so great about Halladay? He doesn’t throw that hard, does he? I know throwing hard isn’t the only factor, but what’s so special?
question 2: if he really is all that, do we really want the Phillies to get him and potentially have to face him in the WS?
Hughes will have the better and more successful career….Simply has superior mechanics to begin with….More importantly, he throws strikes & knows how to pitch…..Cashman will never move Young Master Hughes……
SJ-I agree. Francessa needs a partner.
Yankees should put Kay’s show on YES anyway.
SJ44,
you just finished telling us you always go towards “talent” yet you change course when it comes to Joba vs Hughes.
Last year and this past offseason, you were saying Joba was a “once in a generation” arm.
Is a half season enough to change that?
I’m not saying you’re wrong, just curious how you could do a 180 on this one.
Patrick,
No, that’s true. However, Joe is going to be the good public soldier and play the hand he is dealt. He has no choice at this point.
David-What’s so special? He has incredible control, low pitch counts, terrific overall peripherals, and has dominated a division containing the best offenses in baseball his entire career. What’s NOT special?
I miss Max Kellerman on the radio.
Imagine him and Francesa together? Run for the hills!
Max Kellerman is still available. Put him with Francesa the show becomes better then Kay’s.
Maybe Joba and Hughes will be dueling co-aces for years and years to come. We can debate who was better during the parades…
Dave,
Joba’s conditioning and mechanics concern me over the long haul. Hughes’s conditioning and mechanics do not.
If you have two guys like this, and you have to deal one of them for a pitcher like Doc, that’s why I would choose Joba as the guy I would deal.
I just laughed my Bucholz off watching Hamilton and Cruz dance in the outfield!
Nick in SF-Meanwhile, Bucholz will be sitting at home talking to his kids about the highlight of his career: “”Kids, if only you could see your daddy then when he was good. I pitched a no hitter…”
I would also let Joba go to the Jays IF the choice was Joba or Hughes, simply because the Jays will completely ruin him.
No real threat of him dominating us for a decade. Sick but thats what I would consider if I were a GM.
I can see Francesa going all Tony Bernazard on Kellerman. Ripping his shirt off and screaming at him: “ANDY PETTITTE IS A STARTING PITCHA”
“No, that’s true. However, Joe is going to be the good public soldier and play the hand he is dealt. He has no choice at this point.”
Ok sorry boss didn’t realize you had Girardi’s number on speed dial. Text him for me and ask for some front row tickets tomorrow would ya?
trisha – OPPC lifetime member July 22nd, 2009 at 10:41 pm
I just laughed my Bucholz off watching Hamilton and Cruz dance in the outfield!
_________________________________________________________________
Me too. That was pretty entertaining
That why Cashman needs to have dialog about taking on Rios in addition to Doc, there’s no Joba in the equation
Sox look like they might be swept! Go Rangers, go!
Francesca is a Yankees fan who hates the Yankees. I’ve never seen a person trash on his team more than I do Mike….He worships the ground the Sox walk on – there is absolutely no denying that. He’s also a giant stick in the mud – then again, so is Michael Kay (who I personally like – he’s a nice guy), whatwith their pie-hating schtick. Francesca should go live in Boston so he can suck up to Theo…..like he’s sucked up to Omar (while giving Cash ridiculously hard times on interviews, esp. with Mad Dog).
As to Phil/Joba, people forget that Phil was the #1 pitching prospect for more reasons than that he threw hard. He had great command, he knew how to pitch, his makeup was outstanding….and yes, he threw hard. People assume that Phil can’t be an ace because he doesn’t throw like Joba. Well, that doesn’t matter. Phil has tremendous stuff – swing and miss stuff – and his command is out of this world. People like Joba more because they see hm as more exciting – throws harder, is more emotional.
“Brandon, nope – never seen it. I’m not much of a movie person – though I love dumb, silly comedies.”
Betsy, the orginal is a classic, the prequel sucked, it’s a movie where 1 stupid guy lives w/ his even more stupid equal..literally stupid, I mean if you ever see dumber ppl than them..Jim Carrey just kills w/ comedy in this movie, jeff daniels was equal.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5f_gbzo4Q0
So it’s primarily the control that makes him succesful? (as opposed to velocity/trick pitch/outrageous movement?
– not arguing here, just seeking information
Trade Joba? What are you crazy? Who are we getting, Tim Lincecum, Felix Hernandez? Those are the only types of guys I’d trade Joba for…
Betsy, and this snowfight forever makes me laugh
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAaLhzRSzac
David-Yes, control. Totally control for Halladay.
Patrick, Joba isn’t getting dealt. Some ppl are too overboard in trade thoughts here.
SJ44
still, you said Joba has a “once in a generation” arm.
has that changed?
If Hughes doesn’t have the same talent, it doesn’t seem like such an easy decision (if faced with trading one for Halladay).
If you value talent above all else, wouldn’t it make sense to keep Joba in this case?
David: he has swing and miss stuff and has amazing control of it such that when he pitches ‘in the zone’ its never really IN the zone.
When you think ‘pitching to contact’ you should not think of Halladay, because the pitchers who ‘pitch to contact’ usually just throw slop like sinkers in the lower zone and pray. Halladay lets hitters get themselves out on pitchers pitches.
He does have great stuff though. He has it all basically.
David, There is not one American League hitter that looks forward to facing Roy Halliday…..He puts mlb hitters in a slump…..
Betsy-Since I listen to him a lot, I disagree. He acknowledges the flaws in both teams.
Rays have the leadoff guy on.
“Patrick, Joba isn’t getting dealt. Some ppl are too overboard in trade thoughts here.”
I know, I’m playing dumb. shh don’t say anything
Patrick,
I don’t but, its fairly common knowledge how he feels about his team.
He loves having Swisher on the team. He doesn’t love having to play him everyday.
That’s why he said all of the OF’s would play more and why Nady was given the starting job to start the season./
If he had a better option for RF everyday, as much as he likes Nick, he would play that player.
“People assume that Phil can’t be an ace because he doesn’t throw like Joba. ”
——–
I personally don’t assume that anything Joba does excludes anybody else from doing something else.
Can’t they both be great?
My problem is, how can anybody be so sure that one guy is going to be better than the other at this point?
You can make a case for either guy but most people would suggest that Joba has the better arm (I realize that doesn’t mean he’ll be better).
Ok, thanks.
The more I hear, the more I want him
Joba isn’t getting traded. Hughes isn’t getting traded. Montero isn’t getting traded.
Not going to happen guys, just accept it.
The way things are going lately, it’s going to take alot more than Adam LaRoche and Chris Duncan to save this sinking ship.
Dave,
Because Joba’s weight and injury issues are more of a concern than Hughes. Two guys, close in talent. One with injury and fitness, one without those issues.
If you have a chance to get a Doc Halladay, and you had the choice of which one to keep, I would keep Hughes for that reason.
He has a once in a generation arm and some red flags. That goes into the equation.
“I don’t but, its fairly common knowledge how he feels about his team.
He loves having Swisher on the team. He doesn’t love having to play him everyday. ”
Look, that may very well be true but it also might not be true. I just find it funny that you make these assertions that are based on nothing but your opinion. Unless Girardi is your buddy or you have telepathy there’s no way you can know this with such certainty.
Plus, I already said that Nady would be nice to have around right now. Why exactly are you arguing about this?
Of course Brandon, those of us who offer stimulating and thought out possibilites would not appeal to you….As over the years you just sit back and offer nothing other than criticism….Even during the off season you never go outside the box…..Time to grow some onions
Speaking on Dumb and Dumber really show me a funnier yet more disgusting scene than this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=io30s7-5VaQ
“If you have a chance to get a Doc Halladay, and you had the choice of which one to keep, I would keep Hughes for that reason.”
What if I were to tell you we could keep BOTH Hughes and Chamberlain, is that something you might be interested in?
Runners on the corners for the Rays, 2 out
“He has a once in a generation arm and some red flags. That goes into the equation.”
——-
fair enough.
I guess it’s a unique situation (Halladay) because ordinarily you’d be able to be patient with a guy like Joba and hope he can get his 23yr old head on straight.
Phil Hughes is the exception and not the rule when it comes to the maturity of 23 year olds.
If I were the yankees and tried to acquire Halladay, I would push to take Wells or Rios and get the price off of Hughes/Joba. Removing those contracts from the Jays is as much of a win as acquiring a prospect like Hughes or Joba.
Pat M, no offense but we all know Joba, Jesus, Jackson or Hughes isn’t going anywhere.
White Sox win!
Can anybody else believe the Yanks are 3 outs from being 2 games up on the Sox, considering they were 3 games back at the break?
“If I were the yankees and tried to acquire Halladay, I would push to take Wells or Rios and get the price off of Hughes/Joba. Removing those contracts from the Jays is as much of a win as acquiring a prospect like Hughes or Joba.”
——
I would do the same (only for Rios) but I don’t think Toronto can do that.
Their fanbase would revolt.
Do you think they want to hear “well, we saved money!!” ?
They MUST get an elite prospect back.
LOL Francona has to bring in Papelbon because they don’t want to get swept.
“LOL Francona has to bring in Papelbon because they don’t want to get swept.”
————–
I think they have tomorrow off.
Plus, they haven’t needed Papelbon much during their recent tailspin
Boston Dave….Halliday provides the Yankees a greater chance to win now and for the next 2-3 years….The Yankee core players ( Jeter, Alex, Posada, Rivera ) all are on a shelf expiration dates….The clock is ticking, and as SJ always reminds us, the Yankees are in the Winning business….Stars & winning puts fannies in the seats….
Even if the Yankees took Rios off their hands, I don’t think the Jays make the deal without getting an ML-ready starter.
I don’t see it happening. But I’m not a visionary.
Pat M,
I’m not debating that. I’m curious why people are convinced that Joba is the player to give up and not Hughes.
I’m certainly not knocking either guy. I just don’t see a clear advantage to moving Joba over Hughes.
Anyone buying Rosenthal’s claim that the Rays are going to make big move?
“Anyone buying Rosenthal’s claim that the Rays are going to make big move?”
——–
yeah, the big move they’ll be making will be passing the Boston Red Sox in the standings
The Rays GM has only been authorized to increase payroll this season. I could see them making a move.
They could get a guy like Halladay, or Holliday, or one/both of the pitchers from Seattle.
Basically guys that wont have long term payroll impacts.
where are all the Sox trolls lately?
cmon… I’ll help!
8 and 0! 8 and 0! 8 and 0!
Toronto’s fanbase has been dwindling for some time now…..Brandon, if it did come down to giving up one of those blue chips it would be Jackson and then Joba…..Hughes and Montero are not in the equation…..Of course Brandon this is all my perspective and warped opinion……
Ultimately, isn’t it the Blue Jays’ choice – Joba/Hughes? And then it’s up to the Yankees to accept or decline. Toronto is going to want Hughes for the same reason most of you do – or, rather, Toronto is NOT going to prefer Joba for the reasons many here would be willing to part with him.
Jerkface,
I suppose I could see them maybe offering Tim Beckham for Halladay since they have some depth at SS but I don’t think they view their rotation as a weakness.
The Rays are a pretty well rounded team. Of course, Halladay would improve any team in baseball.
I still don’t see it though.
TWO GAMES UP!
Wow.
Boston really is in a slump!
Texas sweeps……they won 5-6 this season.
White sox wins!!!
HEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHE Swept! Sweetness and light tonight!
+2
Woo hoo!
Loving the rangers right now
“Ultimately, isn’t it the Blue Jays’ choice – Joba/Hughes?”
———
Not really.
Either of those 2 guys would trump any of the reported offers out there.
I don’t think many teams could match that.
The Jays would probably “demand” one guy but at the end of the day, the Yanks could offer either and have a better offer than the Phillies or other reported suitors would likely have.
The Rays rotation is alright to pretty good. Their offense is #2 in baseball. Their bullpen is #3 in baseball(or AL I forget).
Basically they dont have many weaknesses. Any move they make will simply be to ‘put them over the top’. They could grab a true closer type. A couple of relievers. An impact bat. Another starter to give them an ‘unstoppable’ kind of rotation and keep Price at the backend.
Big Papi looked like he was going to cry.
Sux get swept! They look like garbage these days.
there is a solution for the Sox offense though.
If they can’t get Manny back, maybe he can refer them to his doctor in Miami.
Yeah not impressed with the paper tiger of the Rays pen.
Gotta split!
2 games up!
“Another starter to give them an ‘unstoppable’ kind of rotation and keep Price at the backend.”
———–
or move Price back to the bullpen for the stretch run.
If I were the Rays, I’d give up Beckham for Halladay.
I’d think Toronto would rather he go to the Rays than the Sox/Yanks.
Boston Dave -
I’m only talking Yankees. I’m saying it’s a given the Yankees can offer the best package (though I have no real idea if this is so).
The Yankees do not have to make this deal. They can decline any demand the Jays might have.
We don’t really know how badly the Jays need to make a deal for Halladay. If they are desperate, then whoever they’re dealing with is in the driver’s seat. It does not appear that they are desperate, at this point anyway. So, they will demand the best they can get from the Yankees (or whoever) and go from there. I’m saying they’ll demand Hughes first.
Tampa Bay has serious bullpen concerns….
Hughes and Chamberlain are both exceptional talents with electric stuff. Chamberlain probably has better stuff, but, it seems that Hughes has the better pitching aptitude, at least, at this time.
Gardner seems just know one way to hit the ball.I really hope Kevin Long to help Gardner just like he help Hinske.
I wouldn’t get too carried away with a two game lead in July if I were you. Boston gets Baltimore and NYY gets the suddenly hot bats of Oakland. Taking 4 straight in a series from any team is a tough proposition. That two game lead could be gone in a flash.
Got emails from family and friends in St Louis,they are happy to be rid of Chris Duncan. They don’t want him in St Louis,and feel La Russa must’ve owed Dave(his father and pitching coach)
a favor.St Louis got the better deal,Chris is awful in the outfield,and his at bats are lacking,he’s streaky.RS got robbed!
Yanks are hitting .291 vs left-handed pitching.
Oakland will start 3 lefties in the 4 games.
Remember the days when the Yanks really struggled against lefties? Even the great teams in the last run stymied the Yanks.
After reading some of the suggestions and comments about dealing for Roy Halladay AND Alex Rios, I must reiterate some comments that Ray, 86w178 and I were making back on July 14th:
The Blue Jays are committed to ~$81 Million dollars in payroll for 2010.
If the Yankees were to take on Halladay’s 2010 Salary (~$16 Million) and Rios’ 2010 Salary (~$10 Million) that would reduce Toronto’s Payroll for 2010 by $26 Million dollars – or 32% – Instantly!!
Plus – when you factor in that Toronto is still obligated to pay BJ Ryan $10 Million for one last year in 2010 – when that money “comes off the books”, Toronto will have reduced it’s Salary Commitments going into 2011 by 44% (versus it’s current commitment of ~$81 Million going into next year – 2010).
Reducing this payroll is the harsh reality for JP in Toronto.
Remember – we have ~$40 Million coming off our books this year (Damon, Matsui, Nady, Pettite, Molina) – SO – for the same – if not LESS money – we can have Halladay take Pettite’s place in the rotation, Rios take Matsui’s place in the OF, Austin Jackson take Nady’s place in the OF, have Cervelli take Molina’s place as a backup C (or Montero, at the rate he’s going!?!) and maybe we can bring Johnny Damon back on a 2 year deal at ~$7 Million per.
The key here is that this is ALL possible: financially.
We have the deep pockets and Toronto badly needs immediate financial relief (due to Mr. Rogers passing away and his Estate preparing the Team for Sale).
Now, in order to make this somewhat “presentable” to their Fan base, the Jays will have to receive some “prospects” to “sell” to their Fan base as “the future” and that this deal was “worth it”.
However, if we take on so much salary (Halladay and Rios) it only stands to reason that the “Prospects” we would have to include would not be all of our “Blue Chip” Prospects.
So, we could give them a future C (Romine) SS (Pena) and 2 Solid Pitchers (McAllister & Brackman). (Now we might have to up the ante by including Joba and Melky to help Toronto immediately replace Halladay and Rios, but I wouldn’t offer them up right away).
As SJ and others have said, whenever you have a Trade of this potential magnitude, it has to make you feel some pain.
But – if we could add one of the Top 3 SP’s in all of MLB – and obtain a 28 year old, former All Star, everyday corner OF (RF?) – why not do it?
Based on the numbers above, it is possible.
And – if Brian Cashman’s recent examples of deadline savvy and brinksmanship have been any indication (Damon, Teix) – we Yankee Fans just might be a bunch of very “Happy Campers” in a matter of days!!