For Joba, it’s all about the tempo
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Podcast on Jul 24, 2009 
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Joba Chamberlain pitched 7+ innings for the Yankees tonight and threw 100 pitches. The game lasted two hours and 59 minutes, which in Yankee Standard Time is pretty fast.
The reason for mentioning this is to point out the importance of pace and rhythm in pitching. After a series of … well, let’s call them productive conversations … Chamberlain now gets the ball, gets the sign and throws it. He was literally wandering around the mound earlier this season or shaking off too many pitches. Every pitch was a three-act play.
But what we saw tonight and in his previous start was a pitcher willing to challenge hitters. Joba walked Ryan Sweeney and Daric Barton in the fifth inning. Then he fanned Mark Ellis and Eric Patterson on 11 pitches. Two weeks ago that jam would have led to two runs.
“I told him after the game how much better his pace was,” Derek Jeter said. “That makes a big difference.”
Chamberlain also is sticking with his best stuff — a four-seam fastball, a slider and an occasional curve — with runners in scoring position. No change-ups, no sinkers, no nibbling around the corners.
Here’s Jorge Posada talking about it:
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Because Joba has been around for three years now, it’s easy to forget he’s 23 and still learning his craft. The bottom line is this: He is 9-3 with a 3.42 ERA as a starter and that is impressive.
Just keep in mind, he has started 31 times and thrown 168 innings, not quite a full season. He’s only going to get better.
Thanks to everybody for reading tonight. Back at it tomorrow.
We play today, We win today. Das it!
Wallace is a DH anyway, and they can’t put him at 1st with Pujols there.
STL made a good trade. A guy with no position.
joba rules!!!!!!!
Weren’t Cotes and Ryan Duran the same person? Didn’t he throw wild pitches while warming up?
dont trade Joba!
Pat M… yeah I think you are right.. I must admit it was quite a while ago.. I just loved the Yogi story about him..
Joba not only has the lack of starts at the ML level to be considered, but also the lack of minor league starts which is only 15 starts down there. He’s basically learning in the job, unlike most starting pitchers who have started a lot more games in the minor leagues before being called up to the majors.
Joba is going nowhere, but apparently he is still not good enough for some fans, leading them to condemn the idea of acquiring one of the best left handed relievers in baseball because he’s not a starter. That makes a ton of sense. Never a good idea to try and get a decently inexpensive, bigtime bullpen arm who has been battle tested in the AL East. Especially since Joba obviously can’t cut it as a starter, oh an Andy Pettitte is washed up. Right on, “fans”.
Good boy Jobber.
I still think Andy is running on fumes at this point. Doesn’t mean he can’t string together some quality starts, which is all you hope for.
Andrew,
It is pretty comical. It was only one person really though, thankfully, most people are more sensible than that.
Downs is one of the best arms in the AL East
adding Downs to the ‘pen makes it much, much stronger than the Sox, he’s more reliable than Okajima and Hughes right now is pitching better than anyone else the Sox have. Plus, he’s fresh where the guys who have been in the ‘pen all year tend to get overused and worn out.
Shouldn’t people be happy that Cashman is trying to Aceves with one of the top relievers in baseball (in the AL E too), rather than just yank Aceves from the pen and replace him with some scrub like Albaladejo?
If anything, Cashman should be applauded for trying to make sure the pen becomes stronger, as well as the rotation.
Joba pitches a great game MLB Network talking about he needs to be in the bullpen. Seriously he has 3.42 era in 168 ip as a starter in the best hitting division in baseball. I dont know why Joba needs to be in the bullpen when the yanks bullpen has been pretty much been locked down since June.
Downs would be a fantastic addition.
Downs is basically looking like Mike Stanton in his primes right now.
He’s still not the starter he was last season, but his velo and command have been better.
I think the Yankees should trade Jobber for Jarrod Washburn or Ian Snell before everyone realizes that he is a stubborn arrogant 23 year old who doesn’t listen to his catchers. Jobber’s problems are because of Jobber. The Yankees should get rid of him! He will never amount to anything!
Cashman and the Yankees are now making moves from a position of strength because they’ve been patient the past few years and not squandered prospects on washed up names. Getting Washburn would be such a waste of prospects it’s ridiculous as would be trades for almost any other name on the ‘available’ list outside of Halladay, Haren (who most likely isn’t available) or possibly Duscherer (a risk but they might get him for almost nothing and he can pitch in both the rotation or ‘pen).
I’m very happy Joba continued pitching well. Just keep this roll going and shut up all the doubters
The only thing that worries me is that he hits his inning limit or gets overworked. If he keeps pitching like this how can the Yankees shut him down in the middle of a pennant race?
Avinash July 24th, 2009 at 11:35 pm
I think the Yankees should trade Jobber for Jarrod Washburn or Ian Snell before everyone realizes that he is a stubborn arrogant 23 year old who doesn’t listen to his catchers. Jobber’s problems are because of Jobber. The Yankees should get rid of him! He will never amount to anything!
———————
We have a winner for ignoramus post of the day.
I think Downs would be a good pickup, but I wouldn’t give a lot to get him considering he’s owed the remainder of 3.75M this year, plus next years salary, and after I perused these situational stats, which don’t include tonight’s failure, you’ll see he’s pitched poorly away from home and on grass and with RISP. Look over and tell me what you’d trade to Toronto to get him.
http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/p.....009/174677
If the yanks do get Downs. Then you could afford to use Aceves as the 6th starter if there is an injury and take him out of the bullpen without weaking it. Aceves is more stretched out than Hughes. And the way that Hughes is throwing the ball out of the pen you dont want to take him out.
“I think the Yankees should trade Jobber for Jarrod Washburn or Ian Snell before everyone realizes that he is a stubborn arrogant 23 year old who doesn’t listen to his catchers. Jobber’s problems are because of Jobber. The Yankees should get rid of him! He will never amount to anything!”
Ugh…shut up.
I don’t have a clue if this Downs thing really has legs or not….However if it were to be true & Cashman somehow pries him loose from Toronto , that would be a big lift….I have reservations about Marte being an effective one inning releiver at this point….Marte would then become a 1 hitter pitcher….Question is, what is the cost in return players to make that deal….Melancon, Bruney ???? I do think that if this were to occir, Aceves is the arm that gets stretched out……Joba’s success is all about tempo…..
Another good performance by Joba.
Second year in a row that the Yanks have come out of the All Star break winning 8 in a row.
Wow.
I was outall day and followed the game on my ipod and on my phone…definitley impressed at Joba’s performance today!
Downs is a left handed monster
Pat M-
Look over Downs’ situational stats which I just posted a link to, and tell me whom you’d give up to get him.
I forgot about Downs being a lefty.
9-3 with a 3.42 ERA.
Remember that the next time you hear Red Sox Na..er, I mean ESPN extoll the virtues of Clay Buchholz, who has a 5.40 ERA in 108 innings and is almost two years older than Joba.
How can anyone say Buchholz is a better pitching prospect than Chamberlain? It’s illogical.
Morning game tomorrow nice
If the Yankees want Washburn they should wait until the Mariners are out of it and put a claim in when he’s put on waivers, because there won’t be many teams out there willing to take on the remainder of his salary.
“How can anyone say Buchholz is a better pitching prospect than Chamberlain? It’s illogical.”
It’s all no hitter love
July 24th, 2009 at 11:32 pm
Pat M….
July 24th, 2009 at 11:12 pm
GB7, Tall and skinny Jim Coates was a very valuable pitcher for the Yamks back then…..Spot starts for Double headers, long relief, sometimes he’d be called upon for just one hitter…..I thought he came on the scene right around the Bill Stafford did…I always liked Bill Stafford, as everytime I went to the Stadium it always seemed like he was on the hill….Besides his card seemed to be in every pack of Topps……Blew out his arm ????
————————————————————
There’s a funny story about Jim Coates. As you said, he was tall and skinny..looked like a refuge from a POW camp. Mantle said he was the model for the skul and crossbones on a poison bottle.
anyway, Coates’ nickname was “Mummy” because of his appearance, but, more because he slept with his eyes open. The Yanks were flying from California or somewhere (Mantle said California which would be in the spring of ’59 or ’60) to NYY and Stengel had his wife on the plane. Mantle was sitting behind them and he said that Mrs. Stengel saw Coates and horrified, leaned over and whispered to Casey, “Dear, I think one of your players has died.”
Nah, Cashman shouldn’t try and get a top notch, AL East proven reliever like Downs
We need a starter, we should get a starter at all costs, even if its Arroyo
Bronson Arroyo > Scott Downs
because we need a starter!!!
FWIW
Straw says
Mariano smooth
Posada Helpful
Jeter Class act
Bernie Quiet
C. Fielder loud
David Wells louder
Yankee Trader , I was looking over the stat sheet….It’s real unusual for a pitcher to have better #’s on turf rather than on grass…..I did see where he has 3 saves vs. The BoSox….Looks like he was roughed up in Oakland and that contributes heavily to those lopsided numbers…..I just know from watching him over the years, that when he comes into a game, it means trouble for the guys who are up in that part of the order…..Melachon and a a few NYC pizzas could get it done….
“We need a starter, we should get a starter at all costs, even if its Arroyo
Bronson Arroyo > Scott Downs
because we need a starter!!!”
Ummm no.
First off
Scott Downs >>>> Bronson Arroyo b/c after you get Downs Aceves goes into the starting rotation.
Hence Scott Downs RP + Aceves SP >>>>> Bronson Arroyo
Rebecca-
I was worried you drowned during yesterday’s rain delay. Good to see you posting
Ramey – Traded his Girlfriend to the Pirates for a PTBNL
It’s all no hitter love
__
It’s all Yankee hate.
“It’s all Yankee hate.”
Touche
GB, I remember reading about that story…Might have been the Mantle / Ford book, which by the way was truely one of the funniest baseball books ever…..The story of Yogi and the underarm deoderant ……
Brandon – I think he was mocking the couple of posters on the other thread who didn’t want Downs and wanted a starter, even a bad one, instead
If Bronson Arroyo was facing Nate McLouth, who would Diet Coke want to win that battle?
Oh…I need my coffee I use to be great at spotting sarcasm
Id Marte was healthy, we could have acquired Downs and traded Marte
But Marte will definitely get through waivers in August, so if Cashman wanted to trade him he still could.
Brandon… I’M AWESOME ! BOSTON 8 NEW YORK 0 = 1st PLACE NYY
July 24th, 2009 at 11:58 pm
Oh…I need my coffee I use to be great at spotting sarcasm
Awesome = coffee good to know
Some of you are way too gullible.
I have a name for you… Dan Haren. Id give up more for him than I would Doc.
“Scott Downs >>>> Bronson Arroyo b/c after you get Downs Aceves goes into the starting rotation.
Hence Scott Downs RP + Aceves SP >>>>> Bronson Arroyo”
Exactly Cashman did say it might be easier to find a good reliever and then put a starter back in the rotation if needed. Aceves is pretty much stretched out to start and I trust Aceves more has a starter than most of the starting pitching options on the market. If you bring in another quality reliever your bullpen will not be weakened if Ace has to start. And if Bruney comes back to form and pitches like he did before he went on the DL the yanks will have the best bullpen in baseball.
Phillies need to trade JA Happ. He is 7-0 with a 2.68 ERA prior to tonight’s start. He is not that good, he is just on a good run.
If PHI can center the trade around him instead of Drebek, DO IT.
Pat M….
July 24th, 2009 at 11:56 pm
GB, I remember reading about that story…Might have been the Mantle / Ford book, which by the way was truely one of the funniest baseball books ever…..The story of Yogi and the underarm deoderant ……
————————————————————
Yeah, I believe it was in “Slick and Mick”. They talked about all of the money that Yogi had but was always mouching stuff like deoderant and toothpaste. They mentioned something about injecting a tube of toothpate with icy hot. Also talked about the time Mantle called one of Ford’s games from center field and laughing the hole game.
Downs makes sense if Hughes is going to become a starter.
Arizona’s not trading Haren.
The only way you can be against the Downs trade is if you want to go against the grain just for the sake of it.
Guys who are proven commodities in the AL East don’t come around often. Marte did his work in the NL Central and his stats were not nearly as good as Downs’ are.
I am off to bed. Good night Yankee people!
Downs is a “minor” move… JP would have no problem trading him in the division if he gets a good deal. This isin’t a franchise player, this is a reliever. We wouldn’t have wasted time to send scouts there if we knew he wouldn’t deal with us.
Jetson July 25th, 2009 at 12:02 am
I have a name for you… Dan Haren. Id give up more for him than I would Doc.
- – - -
And the Yankees would have to. I would imagine Arizona would demand almost double what Toronto would for him. Haren is shut-down amazing and 4 years younger than Halladay is.
“Downs makes sense if Hughes is going to become a starter.”
Downs makes sense if Aceves moves into the rotation, he can long relief and MRP. Yusssse is doing the SU/CL for this season.(And this season only baring any…
)
Two good starts in a row do not erase the two stinkers beforehand.
However.
What do you do with Joba if he goes on a run? Lets say 5 weeks from now Joba has won 6 of his last 8 starts. His ERA is 3.3 or so.
And he is at his innings limit.
And the Yankees have a 3 game lead.
How do you take him out of the rotation in a pennant race? How do you not start him in the playoffs if he’s been dominant down the stretch?
I don’t know what the right answer is. I don’t know if there is a right answer at all.
How do you take a pitcher out of the rotation due to innings limits when that might cost you the playoffs? Or a playoff series? Or the World Series?
I understand all about the Verducci rules but I’m glad I am not managing the team…I couldn’t follow them in that kind of case.
Now, if Joba is stinking up the joint…or is jekyll and hyding it…that’s a different story.
But if he’s pitching well…..
Interesting got this from Sweeny Murti Twitter
Joba described a hitch in his delivery, wasn’t properly getting ball out of his glove. Last two starts: 13.2 ip, 5 h, 2 r. More impt= 2 W
GB, That was the book, Slick and Mick……Great stories…Some of the Billy ” The Kid ”Martin were just crazy…..In fact I’m going to pull it and re-read it for the first time in at least 15 years…..Ball Four was on the rotation next, then The Bronx ZOO or Nettles Balls…..
I hate “Brandon” Arroyo. ARod should have slapped his face and not his glove.
And I love Aceves.
But I wouldn’t be too quick to discard experience.
Aceves has been great but has less than 30 innings as a starter in his career.
Mitre? You can’t say anything about him.
That’s 10 big September starts between them. Less than ideal.
1 of them might have to start in the playoffs.
It’s a gamble.
And just because you think they still need a starter doesn’t necessarily mean you wouldn’t want a Scott Downs.
I’m sorry, the Jay want Joba for Downs?
77513
July 25th, 2009 at 12:21 am
Interesting got this from Sweeny Murti Twitter
Joba described a hitch in his delivery, wasn’t properly getting ball out of his glove. Last two starts: 13.2 ip, 5 h, 2 r. More impt= 2 W
——————————————————-
Joba talks about it at the end of this clip:
http://web.yesnetwork.com/medi.....id=5720837
If Joba keeps pitching like tonight, the AL East race may be over by early September anyway… But the road ahead is frought with peril, excellent that that are racking up the wins now…must not let up…
Yes, Yankee Trader, I am aware that July 31 means less than it used to…still it is not nothing.
Boston was dfa’d Mark Kotsay……JP Ricciardi is getting clubs to offer packages around some very good youing pitchers….Kershaw (Dodgers ) Weaver ( Angels ) Happ ( Phillies )plus 2 top shelf blue chippers….He’ll never get all that, but some GM will blink and over pay….This is of course that Doc says yes, plus he can then demand a trade in November or become a free agent…..
Nick in SF, In the southland…..Hitting the Hollywood Blvd tonight ???? Or Malibu for a private beach party at the Colony ?????
If Doc demands a trade in November, he cannot also reject a destination, can he?
Just changing planes, Pat M, will be on the Maryland shore by first pitch tomorrow.
“Outfielder Johnny Damon said: “After we moved Joba into the starting rotation last year, it seems like we scuffled trying to find that eighth-inning guy. Phil’s come in and done a great job, and that really helped the team a lot.””
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07.....f=baseball
Since we pay close attention around here to what Damon says about Youuse.
If Joba keeps pitching like this he’s got about 6 more starts until the Ynaks have to make a decision on whether to shut him down and stick to the innings limit or push the envelope and possibly put him at risk.
A big reason why the Sox are not in first is because the back end of their rotation stinks. My hope is that the Yanks don’t handicap themselves down to their level by doing the same thing.
Nick in SF…Have some crabcakes for me….US AIR ???
hey guys…check this out
bill simmons talking about phil hughes on the podcast-hysterical
http://sports.espn.go.com/stat.....id=4353680
United, Pat M, into BWI, then to the shore by auto… There will be crabcakes, softshells sandwiches, and steamed crab seasoned with Old Bay…and a little shore golf… I only wish I could swing up to the city and catch a game…heck, right now I would be happy to swing up to Philly for a cheesesteak…
What a dumb trade Beane made when he moved Ethier for Bradley.
Tony P is ripping Snr. citizen
Safe travels, and play well….Up & down……For all those who dismiss the chances of the Yanks obtaining Brian Bannister, I think Moore doesn’t want to hassle with him during the arbitraion process…..Bannister is a good back of the rotation pitcher with good upside……He’s only 28, Mets screwed up when they traded him….I remember him when he pitched for USC….Groundball sinker pitcher….
“Tony P is ripping Snr. citizen”
Tony is just jealous because Angel and Joe Louis were tight back in the day.
Thanks, Pat M… I am an awful golfer, only sometimes escape triple digits…my brother is much better, he forced me to bring my clubs…re-gripped my driver this morning, will try to swing easy as I imagine Sox fans gripping more tightly in angst…
I still think the Yankees should see what it would take to get Rios. It seems like the Jays are sick of him and don’t like his contract. If the Yanks can get him for cheap by taking his contract, I would do it in a second. The Yankees could use a good hitting center fielder and with Damon probably leaving at the end of the year and Swisher not good enough to play everyday, Rios would be a great pickup.
Whoa. Did something happen? Did we acquire a player?
no.
people think the jay are going to trade downs to the yankees.
or rios for cheap.
probably not.
Wow. Just took a gander at the game thread.
Some crazy stuff in there today.
Personally, I’m not offended by comments about the blondes in the front row or comments about “ladies” in halter tops and legs up to “here”. Or ads with “me lord” or Lace & Stilleto.
And I agree there’s some reverse sexism.
But I think we can all agree that Nick Markakis is good looking young player. Hey, that’s the baseball term right? I hear Al Leiter use it all the time.
So ladies, the proper way to compliment Nick Markakis on his “skills” is to say he’s a good looking young ballplayer.
Seriously, you guys are too serious sometimes.
Finally a sensible response….m, it was such a waste of energy today with that whole bs, during the game no less….
Ah, someone is still up.
Looked like I missed a great start by the young master Jedi. Haven’t looked at the box score, but I gather Melky had a good game as well?
Was very disappointed that Baltimore couldn’t hold a 1-0 lead (and who was that with a solo HR?), but I guess that’s asking a bit much, huh?
Main thing is that we keep chugging along because we’ll hit the bumpy part of our schedule late in the season.
Technically tonight was the first game of the current series, so hopefully Andy can help us secure a series win. Also looking forward to Mitre’s second start.
m, I’m calling it a night….However Joba was much like his last outing…..Great tempo, quick to throw & no shaking off Posada…He didn’t rattle when he put men on base, he just stayed focused on the next hitter……When he over thinks is when he gets into trouble…..Nuke LaLoose, don’t think, you’ll only get into trouble……When I saw him pitch 2 weeks ago in Anaheim, he started off real well, great tempo and balance….Then he put some runners on, and he fell apart and blew a 4 run lead…..Seems like he learned from that night…..
m,
Joba had a great night. His rhythm was so much better and he was back to the old Joba – if you can call a 23 year young man – old. Thought he had more than 6 strike outs but it just seemed that way. He sure put them away and even did some fist pumps and a big old roar. Guess if he keeps winning fans will now over look the emotion.
Joba did well!
apparently Joba had developed a hitch in his delivery that was worked out over the All Star break back in Nebraska. He and Eiland had discovered it some weeks ago. Maybe that’s why he was quoted when he returned as saying it was the best 4 days of the year for him because he knew that he was back on track.
if he continues to pitch like this it’s an interesting problem for the Yankees because he’s the guy you want as the #3 in the playoffs but the only way that works is if you extend his innings limit by at least 30, maybe more. I don’t thin that’s something the Yankees want to do but we’ll see. I noticed an article in the DN that mentioned Fausto Carmona as the latest example of a pitcher who was extended way too much in a single year and the awful results after that, I hadn’t even thought of him but it certainly makes sense.
the other thing is that everyone divides Joba’s innings by his starts for the whole season and projects how many starts he has left. That statistic is irrelevant because the post ASB Joba is averaging 7 innings per start, not the 5+ he has averaged for the whole season. The funny thing is that he’s now throwing easier and less pitches in 7 innings than he was throwing the 1st half in 5+, I wonder how the Yankees will consider that in their decision making process.
finally, Joba is showing the stuff that top of the rotation starters have and the ability to reach back for the 96+ fastball when he needs it-he’s done that multiple times in his last two starts. That is just what he needs to do in order to be consistent and I’m sure that he’s pitching with more more confidence in his stuff now that he knows he has that ability tucked away once again.
” Chamberlain now gets the ball, gets the sign and throws it. He was literally wandering around the mound earlier this season or shaking off too many pitches.”
whenever i see a pitcher walk half way to the plate to get the ball from the catcher , i know that guy is going to be throwing a lot of balls and nibbling . pitchers who attack the zone don’t waste the time to take a walk around the infield on every pitch before they throw a pitch .
walking half way to home plate and the having to walk back to the rubber takes too much time and is just a bad pre pitch routine. less is more.
Boy, before when Joba allowed the run in the first inning,You knew he was in trouble,and would be out in a few innings.Now he digs deep givse you innings and challenges the batters.
Joba had 6 scoreless innings,SO CLOSE TO A SHUT OUT.That’s better than the veterans in the starting rotation.I can’t help thinking he didn’t want to live in Canada,and that he heard the trade talk.
It was a joy to watch him pitch last night. I did wonder why Joe brought him out in the eighth inning,since he’s on an innings cap.So it must’ve been to get to 100 pitches.
~Phil Coke coming in with two on,and striking out the side deserves a mention.There’s nothing like an effective lefty,doing his j o b !!!
Finally, the team Cashman fielded on paper,is matching the team playing on field.
Maybe Joba’s head is screwed on straight after reading about his being part of a Halladay deal.
Joba’s whole demeanor looks different since the ASB. He is jacked up on the mound, and is showing his fist pumping ways.
While he might not have had much to fist pump on in some of his outings, he was getting outs but with too many pitches used and even when he got out of trouble he wasn’t fist pumping.
He was keeping the team in the game, as they won a number of his starts where he got no decisions.
Maybe Harlan told him to be himself, not to pay attention to the talking heads who were on him about his emotional displays. Changing who you are, how you react to things can change how you go about things as well. I think he was worrying about image.
He is working faster as well. He might have decided to let go and allow himself to be led by the catcher.
In any event, its nice to see him doing more of what he is capable of doing.
Rumor …Yankees were in toronto last night to scout Scott Downs…This makes sense for the Yankees….Adding another reliever would free people to start when innings start to run out on Joba.They could piece together three from aceves two or three from hughes and then go to the bullpen….do this a few times and the inning problem goes away.
Ok, if we are interested in scott Downs, hwo about this for a trade?
Scott Downs and Alex Rios for Melky Cabrera, Ivan Nova and Mark Melancon (I’d be willling to substitute Mike Dunn for Melancon if Toronto wants a lefty instead of a righthander)
jp – I like where you are going with that suggestion, but Melancon is going no where.
When someone suggests a guy like Arroyo please look at his numbers
The guy has given up 25 homers in about 100 innings pitched.
Arroyo no thanks.
I repeat – earlier in the season Melacon was projected as Mo’s successor on the Yankee home page. He was to pitch most of the season in the minors with the possibility of coming up in September. He was brought up too early and now fans don’t have a positive view of him.
Don’t know what his status is now but I would hazard a guess he will not be traded.