One bad pitch changed everything
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Jul 25, 2009 
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The game was tied at 1-1 with two outs and the bases loaded for Oakland’s Landon Powell in the seventh inning. Alfredo Aceves was up 0-2.
Powell is a backup catcher, a .250 hitter with 16 RBI all season. But when Aceves left a fastball too far over the plate, he hit it hard the other way for a two-run single. Oakland had a lead they added to and never gave up.
Joe Girardi thought Aceves was trying to put the pitch high. But Aceves said he was trying to go inside and it ran back in over the plate.
“I’m mad,” he said. “But that happens sometimes.”
Girardi defended leaving Andy Pettitte in the game in the inning with three right-handed hitters coming up. Pettitte said he felt fine. Obviously it’s a second guess to say he should have made the switch earlier.
Like Joe Torre did in 2007, Girardi sometimes treats Pettitte like he’s the pitcher he was seven years ago. But managers have to operate with a certain degree of trust in their veteran players.
————
Meanwhile, it’s Family Picnic Day on the Field. Most of the players and their families are hanging out. Kids are playing Whiffleball or soccer. A-Rod is here with his daughters and Kate Hudson. Mo is pitching to his crew in center, Johnny and Michelle Damon are getting photos taken, etc. CC Sabathia III can rake. So can Karter Chamberlain.
I’m sure some Neanderthal fans will be upset that the Yankees are having a good time after losing a game. But most players put games behind them, wins or losses, in a few minutes. A great team is going to lose 62 times. If you beat yourself up every time, it’s going to be a long season.
Thanks for reading today. I’m off tomorrow but we’ll have the lineup up by 11 a.m. or so.
UPDATE, 5:46 p.m.: CC Sabathia just threw a football 50 yards in the air. Mo also pitches his kids inside.
UPDATE, 6:09 p.m.: They’re playing Badlands now at the picnic. I very much approve.
Do they have a big etch-a-sketch for the players to play with?
Pete post some pics please!
maybe that’s why the offense didn’t show up today…. they were too busy worried about the picknic….
Hey, when you’ve won eight straight out of the break, there’s not too much you can complain about.
Only thing now is to start a new winning streak tomorrow. Give Mitre lots of runs to work with.
Or maybe the A’s pitcher made good pitches today.
Toronto about to blow an 8 run lead. Leadoff man on for the Rays in the 11th.
Aceves’s ERA in July: 4.72. Good thing the rest of the (normally used) pen is lights out.
Yes Andrew, that’s what was on the players minds. Briliant.
Good God how some of you even follow this team amazes me at times. Pre-2004 whiny Red Sox fan-like behavior. Pathetic.
From the last thread.
LOL, Angel. Good one.
Pat M…. July 25th, 2009 at 5:08 pm
Mr. Franco , Have you been reading the display of baseball brillance that has overcome the LoHud this afternoon ??? I’m surprised you’d even show up for the postgame insanity……Sometimes I think I’m watching a different game….
—————
It’s simply amazing. Sometimes I really do think we’re watching a different game.
People are complaining after the Yanks just had their 8game winning streak snapped.
A-Rod has been money since the day he returned to the lineup and some dolts still rip him for his anti-clutchness.
I shake my head all the time when I read that nonsense.
That ERA stats is skewed off two outings. Another example of not using stats properly.
Take out his start against Minnesota and today, he’s doing just fine.
“Yes Andrew, that’s what was on the players minds. Briliant.
Good God how some of you even follow this team amazes me at times. Pre-2004 whiny Red Sox fan-like behavior. Pathetic.”
I said the same thing the other day about how certain Yankee fans of today act just like the pre-2004 Red Sox fans. What a bunch of whiners.
I think Andrew was joking.
I hope.
Really.
Andrew: Congrats, you’re the first moron. Pick up your prize.
Meanwhile, I’m not going to take photos. I cover them playing baseball, not their private lives.
Well, they put themselves in the position where they are facing Oakland’s ace and we’re countering with our worst pitcher, and it would be pretty brutal if we split the series.
Offense needs to show up tomorrow.
Tampa fans travel well. There were cowbells for that leadoff single.
Toronto crew talking about the streaking Yankees right now.
Shawn Camp is nowhere near the plate. Go-ahead run in scoring position.
“That ERA stats is skewed off two outings. Another example of not using stats properly.
Take out his start against Minnesota and today, he’s doing just fine.”
Of course, that’s not acceptable to certain Yankee fans. They expect their players to be perfect everytime out.
GF and Pat M,
Its the same handful of people with different screen names.
I refuse to believe 100 people who are fans of this team are that stupid.
Its about 10 using different names so they aren’t ID’ed as idiots.
That’s my story and I’m stickin’ to it! lol
Some fans won’t be happy until the team goes 162-0 and then 11-0 in the postseason.
Such fans don’t understand the beauty of baseball.
And of course, we face Oakland’s ace tomorrow and the Sux miss him.
Sux get to face Mazarro, Anderson, Gonzalez, and Cahill.
Ben Zobrist doubles. Rays score.
Wow, the perfect game sent the Rays and White Sox going in different directions, and not the ones you’d think of.
“Some fans won’t be happy until the team goes 162-0 and then 11-0 in the postseason.
Such fans don’t understand the beauty of baseball.”
They don’t understand the difficulty of the game either.
Yes, they are in a “terrible” position tomorrow.
They can’t hit Dallas Braden. He’s unstoppable.
If I was Sergio Mitre, I’d call in sick tomorrow. He has no chance.
I believe there are some people who thought the team would go undefeated the rest of the way. Tough when the dreams of children are burst in such a cruel fashion.
“And of course, we face Oakland’s ace tomorrow and the Sux miss him.
Sux get to face Mazarro, Anderson, Gonzalez, and Cahill.”
Stop whining and deal with it.
“Andrew: Congrats, you’re the first moron. Pick up your prize.”
Pete, while I agree with your assesment I thought there was a no name calling policy. This your last warning!
Is there cole slaw? there has to be cole slaw.
SJ44-That is not skewing stats at all. Ace did bad in Minnesota. He did not do rterrible but did allow a run in the eighth inning vs. Detroit. And he did bad today.
Nothing skewed about it.
“maybe that’s why the offense didn’t show up today…. they were too busy worried about the picknic”
priceless
rterrible is terrible
RS, thanks! I can’t believe I forgot that AJ pitched Wednesday as that is when I left for Philly. My rant is moot,lol.
Hey, good for the Yankees that they have put the game behind them (but I admit as a fan, I have a harder time)…especially since it’s family day. I REALLY want to see pics of the players with their kids -how cute. The Yankees yearbook used to include pics of Family Day ,but the don’t anymore.
Ace may be in a slump – it happens..
I wonder if it’s physically possible to hit an inside-the-parker at Philly’s ballpark
Leadoff man for Toronto walks, Alex Rios.
“Do they have a big etch-a-sketch for the players to play with?”
LOL
“Is there cole slaw? there has to be cole slaw”
on that note,
“Who Made the Potatoe Salad?”
if you liked Meet the Parents, check this gem on Netflix
Rios drew a leadoff walk.
So what does Gaston do with Wells? Bunt Rios to second.
Haha.
Sac bunt, Rios on second one out.
I agree with Girardi leaving Pettitte in. He was pitching really well and his pitch count wasn’t that high he was cruising through the game. Both ways he was going to get ripped. If he took him out people would complain he had a quick hook on Pettitte. The team just took the lead usually Andy is reliable in those spots.
The only thing that was a little frustrating was Aceves had an 0-2 count on the hitter and looked like he was going to get out of the inning and gave up a bloop single to left scoring 2.
I was thinking, whatever Joe G does here he’s gonna get ripped. It was a tough situation for Joe.
I’m sure we’ll get some coverage of the pic in ic from YES network.
Kate is having a B-Day party for Alex tonight. My invite must have gotten lost in the mail.
Anybody else gonna watch the dropped ball game again?
That was fun.
“Rios drew a leadoff walk.
So what does Gaston do with Wells? Bunt Rios to second.”
Apparently we cudda done with bunting Melky and Damon over! (just sayin’…)
By the way, i wasn’t here yesterday, so I have to say I’m thrilled Joba’s doing well. We need him.
i=I
3-1 count on Scutaro.
“I wonder if it’s physically possible to hit an inside-the-parker at Philly’s ballpark”
Rebecca:
http://mlb.mlb.com/media/video.....7095498489
Damn! Thats why we should trade for Wells. So he can bunt Melky and Damon over!
Dallas Braden is an ace? I admit that I don’t know his numbers, but come on. He’s a rookie.. The Yankees beat Halladay this year, they used to beat Pedro quite a bit – ooooh, let’s not play the game tomorrow.
I disagree with Pete – Family Day is not what I would call their private lives as it is taking place on the field. I guess there will be plenty of photos, though.
Just saw on Fox that Jayson Stark is reporting the Phillies are not wanting to give Toronto what they are asking for Halladay
Bases loaded, one out for Toronto.
Play for the win when on the road, play for the tie when at home….9th inning stragery…..Old school baseball mentality
>Meanwhile, I’m not going to take photos. I cover them playing baseball, not their private lives.
>I cover them playing baseball, not their private lives.
>not their private lives.
HA HA HA, OH WOW!
good stuff
Hill strikes out.
Tornto sucks.
Although the game isn’t actually over.
Hey Peter, how about that Brian Bruney today? I’m tellin’ ya, get him more work to get his location back in order & we’ve got a ‘real’ pitcher again.
I didn’t like Girardi’s lineup today– Swisher 5th? Three righties in a row? Gardner AFTER Jeter? Molina AND Ransom?
But it’s a minor issue, ya gotta lose sometimes. 8 of 9 isn’t hard to take. Aceves can’t be light-out all the time. Pettitte was good. Oh well.
I wonder if Jeter is on the field with his parents and Minka Kelly.
Tom:
Damn you’re good.
Game over. Tornto implodes spectacularly. Not only do they blow an 8 run load, they had bases loaded one out for Aaron Hill and Adam Lind and they couldn’t score a single run. I mean wow.
Nelson pulls off the Papelbon and the Rays win.
Oh would all you whiners like to be a Jays fan. You have an 8-0 lead and you lose! Oh and your management wants to trade away your only reason for going to baseball games.
Maybe the media isin’t aloud on the field during Family Day. Why would the players want to be surrounded with cameras while they are with their families?
if you only wanted to report baseball, why was kate hudson throwing Alex a birthday party mentioned?
Anyway like someone said, I’m sure they will show some footage on YES
Tampa rallies from 8-0 and wins in 12
Wow. That team has guts. 5 wins already when trailing after 7 innings after the ASB.
Tornto is Toronto, load is lead.
Conspiracy theory. Joe is giving Alex the day off tomorrow so he can party tonight.
Jeff D.-Maybe they do, but we’re either first or second in the league in comebacks and lead the league in walkoffs, so we have guts too. And we weren’t perfect gamed (yet at least).
Oh well, sucks that Tampa won but what are you going to do? All the Yankees can do is keep winning series and take care of business…….they can’t help what the Sox or Rays do.
Man The Angels are just on fire, as they’re waxing The Twins…..They have lost but 1 game since they broomed the Yanks 2 weeks ago this weekend….Still no Hunter or Big Daddy Vladdy….
I agree that the worst part of this loss was Aceves giving up the 0-2 hit.
But it does make me feel a little better to know that Aceves was trying to go inside and just missed his location. O’Neill was talking about how it’s not smart to throw three consecutive pitches in the same area and if Molina called for the fastball middle up, that would NOT have been a good baseball decision. Things like obviously terrible pitch selection is something that should be avoided, but bad execution? That just happens.
Also, I mentioned this in the previous post but I think the reason why people get so riled up after losses is because the Yankees always seem to put themselves in a potition to win, which makes it seem like they “give” games away. However, I think it’s a good sign that they can never be counted out of a game and just about always get the tying run at the plate in the 9th inning. Great teams are the toughest to close out and always make things interesting, and these Yankees have a chance to be a great team.
“5 wins already when trailing after 7 innings after the ASB.”
What’s more important over the long run-
Effective starting pitching or guts?
As to Halladay, JP has every right to ask for the moon, but I’m not surprised that Philly doesn’t want to do that. They are in a GREAT position right now – substanial lead in the division, one of the two best teams in the NL and with a great shot as is to go to the WS. I suspect the JP will cave (based on ownership not seeming to care if they get a great package in return) and Philly will get Doc for almost nothing.
This what you call “overanalyzation of stats”.
http://pinstripedbible.mlblogs.com/
“What’s more important over the long run-
Effective starting pitching or guts?”
Luckily we have both.
Polly Tompkins: We have a feature on Polly — the Yankees honorary bat girl in May as part of MLB’s campaign to raise awareness in the fight against breast cancer — that will air during tomorrow’s pregame. It’s a good one. Swisher already asked for a copy on DVD.
http://kimberlyjones.mlblogs.com/
The problem isin’t Braden. It is Mitre AND Braden.
If CC was going tomorrow, all of us would be 100% confident.
Jeff D: And the Yankees have 9 walk-off wins. The Yankees aren’t exactly gutless, either.
“The problem isin’t Braden. It is Mitre AND Braden.
If CC was going tomorrow, all of us would be 100% confident.”
You have a point but come on, it’s the Oakland A’s and I feel pretty confident.
Tampa has starting pitching AND guts.
Like us, they have a great top 3 and questionable back 2.
Epic fail by Toronto. The Rays had a great comeback, but rememeber this is the same team that BLEW a 10 run lead to the last place Indians. They are certainly not invincible.
Just get a win tomorrow and head to TB with a cushy (at least) 6 game lead in the loss column.
“Effective starting pitching or guts?”
Considering that both teams have both, I don’t see the point….
Aceves has outpitched his projections. I hope that continues.
Tampa’s bullpen still doesn’t impress me, I don’t care about it’s rank. There’s nobody in their pen I’d be scared to face.
Let’s forfeit tomorrow’s game……and save us all some angst
Gotta split. Have fun with the whiners!
Posada grounded into that DP in the ninth cuz he he just remembered he had to bring the Potato salad.
Maybe its because I’ve been following baseball for so many years, but I can’t understand this “college football” mentality after a loss.
I have bad news for all the bridge jumpers – there’s still 65 more games left in the season. Be prepared for another 25-30 more losses this year.
lol @ the praise for the Rays…. The Blue Jays are freaking garbage… let’s see the Rays come back from 8 runs down to beat the Yankees… not gonna happen… I’m not worried at all about Boston or Tampa… we have the best team in the division, we did from the start and we still do…. one loss today, oh well, you can’t win ‘em all and we had won 8 straight…. Plus the Saturday day games are blacked out where I am so I’m happy they picked today to lose… They’ll be back tomorrow to start a new streak, it’s all good…
tough spot for the jays waiting for their best player to get traded, i still wonder how jp has a job after all that money he gave wells/rios who arent performing
mirte this years chacon/small … we’ll see soon enough
Remember, it’s not like we’re scoring runs in bunches.
The reason we have been winning is because of our pitching. We won 3 straight 2-1 games this week.
If Mitre gives up 7 runs in 3 innings tomorrow, it doesn’t matter what we do against Braden. It starts there.
Pat M….
July 25th, 2009 at 5:38 pm
Man The Angels are just on fire, as they’re waxing The Twins…..They have lost but 1 game since they broomed the Yanks 2 weeks ago this weekend….Still no Hunter or Big Daddy Vladdy….
————————————————————
I’m shocked at the way that from 1-12, a very good Twins pitching staff has just totally come apart in the last month.
Even more shocked that in the last two weeks, it’s been Izturis and Figgins that are providing the power and run production for the angels. Each with another homer today.
It’s pretty funny how people can’t even compliment the Sox or the Rays without fans feeling they are indirectly dissing the Yankees.
Saying the Rays have guts is the same as saying the Yankees don’t, right?
Yankees lose on Picnic Day. Not surprised!!!
Gio Gonzalez is by far the greatest pitcher I have EVER SEEN! He will win the Cy Young. No doubt in my mind.
1 last post:
“Remember, it’s not like we’re scoring runs in bunches.
The reason we have been winning is because of our pitching. We won 3 straight 2-1 games this week.
If Mitre gives up 7 runs in 3 innings tomorrow, it doesn’t matter what we do against Braden. It starts there.”
We scored 8 runs yesterday and six two days ago. We ran into a guy throwing well today. Sorry, but I ALWAYS expect our lineup to score some runs.
NOW I’m gone!
Rays have a winning record against the Angels, Phillies, Red Sox, and split the season series vs. the Yankees so far
It’s not like they have only done this against bad teams. I don’t see how doing it against the Blue Jays matters. From their standpoint, they just gained another game on us.
Dallas Braden is pitching tomorrow? Mitre needs to pitch a shutout.
The Jays are stupid to ask for Happ along with Drabek.
Happ going to the Jays makes no sense for either team. He’s a pitcher with decent stuff who relies on command. He doesn’t particularly have a high ceiling and is already 27 years old. I don’t think he’d do well in the AL East, and even if he did, he’d be 30 years old by the time the Jays are good enough to contend. I don’t know why TOR wants him so much.
At the same time, Happ has been outstanding for the Phillies this year, and even if he doesn’t have a great career ahead of him, THIS YEAR he has been as valuable for them as any of their pitchers. You could even argue that Halladay wouldn’t be THAT much of an upgrade over what the Phils have gotten out of Happ in ’09.
So from both teams’ standpoints, I understand why Happ isn’t moving. I think the Phils will bite as long as they don’t have to move someone from their major league roster. It remains to be seen if the Jays are willing to comprehend. Replace Happ with Donald & Carrasco, and it’s probably a done deal.
I’m shocked at the way that from 1-12, a very good Twins pitching staff has just totally come apart in the last month.
___________________________________________
The Twins were not that good to begin with.
It remains to be seen whether the Jays are willing to *compromise*
Hey forget Mark Sanchez. Sign CC to be our qb
Is Dallas Braden Cy Young?
I like how this team never gives up, they came back and had a chance right up to the last out.
Ok, Matthew – and they are still 5 games behind the Yankees. It’s fine to praise them, but if the positions were reversed, I’m sure we would NOT be praising the Yankees. In fact, we were only 3 games behind the Sox heading into the break and people were losing their minds…..seems a bit hypocritical
Yes, the Rays have picked up a game on the Yankees today.
I guess it’s a matter of perspective though. Two weeks ago, the Rays were 3.5 games behind the Yankees. Now they are 5.5 games out.
PA you’re a fat loser, you can delete my posts all you want buddy, but I’ll keep coming back and posting… btw I didn’t break any rules w/ what I posted…. you’re a joke dude….
Hey Everyone -
I spent the day out on Long Island with my husband and two daughters. We saw the start of the game during lunch. Pettitte looked good to start.
The next update we got was when we turned for the score on XM (just the score – wanted to take a day off from baseball) and saw 0-0 in the 5th. Great for Pettitte.
Next update was a “tweet from Pete” notifying me that people were booing the Yankees, so I turned tot he score again and saw 6-1 in the bottom of the 7th. And immediately tried to figure out who the heck could be getting booed, and what were the circumstances. Did Girardi leave Pettitte in too long? Did Cody Ransom make an error at short? Tried to think of the usual culprits that would “inspire” booing.
The next “tweet from Pete” was about the 160 HRs in the stadium. Blah, blah – Pete, I know you’re on a mission to get it fixed, but we’ve all heard it before – so I turned to the score again, figuring it must have been a Yankee who hit the HR. Saw the 6-4 score, but did not know there were 2 HRs.
(All the while we were listening the Classic Vinyl’s countdown of the top 100 classic rock songs, which definitely helped the 2-1/2 hour trip go a little better).
Checked the score again and saw 6-4 bottom 9th, 0 outs. So I knew the bullpen did its job in the 8th and 9th. But had no idea of game situation. Some time passed and I check the score again. Game was over and no score was displayed. So, I figured one of two things happened – nothing, and they lost, OR, and what I was hoping for, was a 3 run walk-off HR. Little did I know that the situation had actually been there for that to have happened.
While any loss is disappointing, yet again, the Yankees battled and had a chance to win. They were going to lose again sometime, so I’m not upset about the loss. I am actually relieved that there will not be 10 in a row, and we will not have to suffer through seeing Girardi try to grow a Swish-hawk, or don a wig, or whatever he would have done.
GLad to see Pettitte had 6 strong innings. Maybe next time he won’t be able to talk Girardi into one more inning, one more hitter. Aceves will be fine. Too bad it wasn’t just one bad pitch, since they did add on. The “add on” is what lost the game, ultimately, since if they were held at 3, the 4 runs the Yanks scored would have been enough.
Skimmed the game threads. Shaking my head. There are definitely two camps of people here. ‘Nuff said.
I didn’t know the Yankees held a “company picnic!” I think it’s great. I wish my husband’s company still did it. Those were fun, especially when the kids were small.
Tomorrow’s another day. Hopefully Sergio has a strong outing, or at least strong enough and the offense gets it done.
Frankly, at this point, I don’t care what the Rays and RS do, because the Yankees can’t control that. And I firmly believe that 1st place is going to change hands a couple of times between now and the end. The Yankees are a good, strong team, and will be in it to the end.
the post game commentary volume seems pretty low, i wonder if a bunch of fans jumped off a building because they lost today after an 8 game winning streak.
As always, though, the Yankees fought back and Andy threw really well, those are the most important things to get out of a loss, one of 60-67 of them for the Yankees this year when all is said and done…
Braden has been very good. Underrated pitcher.
Should have been in the ASG instead of Wakefield.
Hey Doreen – you lost me after “Hey Everyone”
Gio Gonzalez should have been on the All Star team.
Who names their kids “Dallas” ???
Why isin’t anyone blaming Girardi for resting 3 of our best hitters all in one day?
He couldn’t space it out and give one guy yesterday off, one today, one tomorrow?
Ransom is probably going to be in there again tomorrow.
I think they should have rested ARod today. I hope he gets rested (and I mean on the bench rested) tomorrow. That was the only question I had about today’s lineup. At first glance I saw Ransom’s name and thought, oh, ARod’s not playing, good. Then my husband said, whoa, Jeter’s DH, so I looked again and saw ARod at 3rd and Ransom at short.
I’m not in the business of second-guessing the manager (much anyway), but I think most of us have seen ARod a little less at the plate the last 2 games before this one (though he stole a couple bases) and figured he’d get a day off today. As long as it’s tomorrow.
The Yankees should have drafted Gio over Poterson in 2004, but anyone who follows the draft, already knows that.
Hey, has anyone ever sent anything (even a letter or autograph request) to a player at the stadium? I want to send something – per Pete, he said the players do get their mail. I was just wondering if anyone has ever gotten a letter/autograph/whatever back in return, so you knew the player had gotten what you sent. Thanks!
Of course, they could have taken Street there as well.
Betsy,
Not since I was a kid and got back an autographed pic of Thurman.
This guy had a 9 ERA who was on the mound for Oakland. We should have put the Scranton team out there and still pounded him.
Girardi probably thought we don’t need our full lineup today, but tomorrow for Braden and with Mitre on the mound we need the full guys. So he used this as an opportunity to rest multiple guys.
It was a good idea, but it obviously didn’t yield the right result. But this was about Aceves too. You can’t expect the team to rally from 5 down.
The come from behind win can’t help but boost the confidence of the Rays as they go home after tomorrow’s game to face the Yankees. No easy task for the Yankees but their best starters are lined up to face the usually tough Rays.
Braden might be good, but if ANY starting pitcher is going to have a bad day, it’s against the Yankees offense at Yankee Stadium.
I happen to have more faith in Mitre than most of you do. The O’s have a much better offense than the A’s and he did a good job against them. I think he has a good chance to put up a quality start.
Betsy
July 25th, 2009 at 6:09 pm
Hey, has anyone ever sent anything (even a letter or autograph request) to a player at the stadium? I want to send something – per Pete, he said the players do get their mail. I was just wondering if anyone has ever gotten a letter/autograph/whatever back in return, so you knew the player had gotten what you sent. Thanks!
————————————————————
Whatever you send, Betsy, send it with a stamped, self addressed envelope. Not sure if sending it certified mail is a good ida, though. Whoever you send it to might have had a bad game or to, and, knowing that it could be from a “Yankee fan” might soak it in water first.
Betsy July 25th, 2009 at 6:09 pm
Hey, has anyone ever sent anything (even a letter or autograph request) to a player at the stadium? I want to send something
————–
What ya gonna send – you’re hotel room key?
Remember the park we play in guys
A harmless fly ball that Braden might get in the McAffee Colosseum could be 3 rows deep in NYS.
That’s where our advantage plays in our favor.
Cashman working the phones, trying to tarde for Gio Gonzalez
When Leiter, O’Neill and Kay are doing the games, why is it that they never stop taking? They even talk when the pitch is being delivered. Kay is not that good, but when he is teamed with these two, he is terrible. They fit the game in between their conversations.
Give me Singleton and Cone. They are excellent.
Flarhety is the best broadcaster
Talking not taking
Do the Yankees have a rally in their bones?????
NO!
“A harmless fly ball that Braden might get in the McAffee Colosseum could be 3 rows deep in NYS.
That’s where our advantage plays in our favor”
exactly. While our pitchers have adjusted and learned how to pitch in NYS, pitcher that come here will make “mistakes” without realizing it and Boom! a NYS special
whether people like the fact that NYS is a bandbox or not, it can be apart of the home field advantage.
Pete,
Why don’t you go home and try to start a family of your own instead of creepily watching others all day?
The Yankees will be down to a 1 1/2 game lead after the Red Sox smack around that horrible Orioles team.
Has Kate Hudson ever been in a movie worth watching?
I take it that TOM did not put his real email address down before posting.
Whatever happened with AROD getting his car smashed by one of Kate Hudsons friends?
Yanks should trade everyone on the 25 man roster for the immortal Gio Gonzalez.
Yanks should trade everyone on the 25 man roster for the immortal Gio Gonzalez.
“Has Kate Hudson ever been in a movie worth watching?”
Only one. Almost Famous.
Dallas Braden is the second best pitcher in baseball behind Gio Gonzalez.
“Has Kate Hudson ever been in a movie worth watching?”
Nope.
Nobody around?
Kate Hudson is not that good looking to begin with. AROD has really lowered the bar.
1. Doreen – it’s ironic – you spent the day on LI and I spend the day stuck on NJ Turnpike traffic, bringing mother-in-law back from Philly, to spend week with us. It’s almost as much fun as the Belt Pkwy.1
2. I wonder if it’s the same gaggle of certified sub-geniuses who boo at the Stadium who also like to post under a variety of aliuses. Maybe the same brood, who split up.
Laura-
I saw that, and while she was nominated for an oscar, she barely said anything in the movie. She had ten lines, tops. The movie is worth watching, but not because of her.
Joe from Long Island
July 25th, 2009 at 6:38 pm
1. Doreen – it’s ironic – you spent the day on LI and I spend the day stuck on NJ Turnpike traffic, bringing mother-in-law back from Philly, to spend week with us. It’s almost as much fun as the Belt Pkwy.1
2. I wonder if it’s the same gaggle of certified sub-geniuses who boo at the Stadium who also like to post under a variety of aliuses. Maybe the same brood, who split up.
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You can only hope that their parents weren’t as stupid, realized their mistake and stopped reproducing.
Cards/Phillies game comes to a grinding halt when a fan laser pointers Lugo during an AB and security scours the crowd.
Speaking of idiots, one of the this board’s wizards brethren in Philadelphia is using a green lazer light to shine into the face of the Cardinal batters. You’ve got to wonder what is in these jerks minds.
I can’t rest until I see pics of the picnic!!!! I want to see the comrade between the families!!
It would serve the fans right to see their Phillies team lose today.
“UPDATE, 5:46 p.m.: CC Sabathia just threw a football 50 yards in the air. ”
sure CC can throw 50 yards now, but how about in the AFC playoffs when it counts?
Matt Holliday is loving life in St.L
very far away pic of the picnic
http://twitpic.com/bm2kd
“Cards/Phillies game comes to a grinding halt when a fan laser pointers Lugo during an AB and security scours the crowd.”
I didn’t think Theo would stoop that low… just pay the man and put it behind you.
That Cardinals team is scary
The St. Louis lineup is loaded. They may be better now than they were under Whitey Herzog in the 80s….
I don’t think it was Kate’s friends who smashed his car, it was someone who worked for him. Kate was tagging along to get some coffee. How the heck did I know that, I don’t know, reading too much gossip. lol
Guys a fan in Philly,is pointing a laser light at Lugo’s facial area(it’s green,and)shinning around his eyes,and messed up his at bat.Funny
The Umps stopped the game and security is searching the stands to find the culprit.Do you think Anyone was a Narc,nope?
I’ve never seen anything so funny.Mcarver ex CARDS catcher,now announcer for Fox) is whining like a big baby,about how dangerous it is for the batter,not being able to see the ball,coming in at that speed,oh boo hoo!
LOL
“I don’t think it was Kate’s friends who smashed his car, it was someone who worked for him.”
No, it was her nanny. It wasn’t anyone tied to Alex.
Joe from LI =
The NJ Turnpike is the worst, from just south of Exit 9 on down. We live off 8A, and that’s where the road narrows 6 lanes into 5 into 3. They have a plan to add more lanes, but it won’t be finished for some 5 years or so.
We were planning on 3 hours driving home from Central Islip, so we actually made better time than we feared. Not by much, but anything helps.
Someone in shorts with a dark haired, 3-5 year old on the jumbotron is the best I can make out from that picture.
Oh okay, I thought he came out with a statement of sorts saying it was someone who worked for him, guess not. I sort of skim through the gossip sites so sometimes I get it wrong.
LOL GB…….no, it’s something that I think one of the players would like (but definitely NOT my room key).
That laser thing is NOT funny – is the guy 2 years old? Philly is a fantastic city, but their fans are the worst.
Cards being lit up by Philly 5-12,on their 7th PITCHER in bottom of 7th,1 grandslam hit and a host of Hr’s.
Mcarver(the cheerleader/announcer) says how great Holliday is doing for the Cards he’s 2-5,gotta luv it!
Did McCarver play for both the Phillies and the Cards at one time?
And the laser isn’t even remotely funny.
can’t win them all but Joe G shouldn’t get talked out of removing a SP out a game
Cardinals get any SP they will be tough to beat
5-14 Phillies,the Cards can’t get out of the 7th,10 come to to plate 6 score,ouch!
GB7
I just found today a book by Roy White.” Then Roy said to Mickey…The Best Yankee stories ever told”
Have you read it ? I was thinking about ordering it
Doreen
yes he played for BOTH team sort of followed STeve Carlton as he was his personal catcher so to speak
Thanks, gayle. That’s what I remembered, too.
What’s funny is Mccarver’s reaction,he’s ballistic!
Yes smarty pants he played for the Cardinal’s with Bob Gibson,IN 1964,LATER GOING TO PHILLY.
Garrrr. I somehow new Papi was gonna do that.
haiku-man -
Why are you calling me “smarty pants?” I just wanted to know if what I thought was right.
It was not easy to tell from what you wrote that you were saying McCarver’s reaction was funny – it seemed like you were saying the laser was funny. Sorry if I misunderstood.
3-0 red sox
Ortiz hit an incroidable 3 run shot
lol, Jim Pier One.
Nice play on words there. Incroidable.
BTW, why was your real name getting stuck in the filter?
tom tresh 15
July 25th, 2009 at 7:19 pm
GB7
I just found today a book by Roy White.” Then Roy said to Mickey…The Best Yankee stories ever told”
Have you read it ? I was thinking about ordering it
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No, TT, have only read exerpts, but, some great stories. White was one of the real class acts, much like Murcer. All style and highly unappreciated by everyone but the players. Billy Martin didn’t have much use for him, though. Never understood that. I, too, have the book on order.
Lester is losing it. Game could be tied in a second…
nevermind
Because I thought you were playing with me about Mccarver,as if you didn’t know he caught Gibson.
Calm down,don’t get your knickers in a bunch,its just baseball.
Dam the O’s suck. And I want to know where Ortiz got his roids from.
Watching that inning, all “Mo” did was nibble on corners, walking off the mound thinking striek 3 would be called on a ball 2 feet inside, then getting one on the outside corner.
Thanks M, my name is Jim Pir-one without the dash. and it’s caught in filters.
Montero went yard.
Again.
Thanks GB7, I will probably order it also. I enjoy that kind of story. My first childhood memory of baseball was the 61 HR race.Then when CBS bought the club A NC boy could watch the Yanks most Sat. afternoons
haiku-man -
No, not playing with you at all.
My knickers aren’t in a knot. I’m really in a very good mood. Had a nice day. I’m cool with the Yankees loss (maybe cause it experienced it second hand and didn’t sit through it) and wasn’t looking to get into anything with anybody.
I’m the smiley face person, remember
?
Angels offered Jared Weaver, a prospect, and the Jays PICK of any position playing prospect and they said no go.
This O’s-Sox game is going to be slow torture. I’m channel surfing now.
Incroidable,lol got it!
Looks like Cards lose 6-14.
Now I don’t have to take any smack from my Card friends,since they lost too.
Hey, cheer up everybody, at least we didn’t have to hear Michael Kay scream -
“SEEE YAAAAA!”
you’re right. any orioles-red sox game is torture on the red sox haters, and would be on orioles fans if there were any. i wonder if that bum aubrey huff will ever do any fist pumping versus the sox.
I retract my last statement I was mistaken. I was only Jared Weaver and the Jays pick of any position playing prospect, no other prospects involved. Not as crazy as it sounded.
I got more where that came from haiku-man,
PEDroia
AH sorry you think we’re getting into it,trust me I don’t get into it,not worth the time.
As far as the game,like Pete said, one bad pitch changed everything.
Scranton won 7-2 and Jackson had a bit of a mixed game. 1-3 with an RBI and run scored, but, also a strikeout, caught staling and an error. Pena was 0-3 with a pair of strikeouts.
Curtis with a pair of homers and Miranda hit one. Marte pitched a perfect 9th inning with a strikeout. Cervelli had a 1-1 with a double.
Also, if no one has heard, the Jays say that the price for Halladay is Jesus, Hughes, and Jackson
Montero is 1-1 with a solo homer.
Pete, do you have any photos of the event to post or is it closed to the media? Thanks for the post! It’s nice to hear about what the players get to do with their families instead of just their baseball jobs all the time.
Jennifer,
Maybe in the same place as Arod.
“Also, if no one has heard, the Jays say that the price for Halladay is Jesus, Hughes, and Jackson”
wow…no way would i do that
Ken Rosenthal did say,the Phillies and Angels were backing off Halladay,because they wanted too much.He loves talking during the game you know.If it’s not true he said it on TV.
MLBTRADERUMORS says a bit different.
Jim you’re killing me.He’s midgee
My Montero posts go unnoticed
Aw Rebecca don’t feel bad. You keep posting about Montero and someone will notice, I know it!
Honestly I don’t know how I feel about Hughes, Montero, Jackson. I would have no problem if the Yankees got rid of Jackson. I am iffy on Montero given the circumstances of his defense. But Phil is the problem in that trade, I’d like to see more from Phil. I the Yankees were guaranteed to get 5-6 solid years out of Halladay that is one thing, but who knows really.
C’mon O’s! Make a comeback so I don’t have to keep watching Antigues Roadshow.
Rebecca–Optimist Prime–Montero Fanaticus Primus
July 25th, 2009 at 7:59 pm
My Montero posts go unnoticed
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A lot of posts go unnoticed, Rebecca. You never will, though.
Those are the wrong 3 players to give up for a 1 year rental and possibly only a 2 month rental….even for Halladay.
Cashman should pull the trigger on that trade. Jackson is probably a quality OF, maybe a better Melky. Montero , you gotta give to get up, plus DH’s are a dime a dozen.
Problem is, what do you do with the set up role for the rest of the season since that has been locked down since putting Hughes there.
GreenBeret – I agree that is true for the 1 1/3 years. But, if they were able to get 5-6 years out of him with that deal what do you think?
Jays must be crazy,dump the big fat contract,pick up low pay players.
Cashman didn’t do it for Santanna (sell the future)and I’ll be surprised if that changes.Phil is too valuable for a SOON TO BE 33 YRS.
Andy might not come back next yr,and Wang hoprfully will come back,healed.Yankees need Phil,Montero is a beast of a hitter,could in time replace Matsui.
Santanna couldn’t wait he wanted out of Minn,ask him if he’s happy now?
Yay, O’s!
Tank – I believe if that trade was made you move Joba to the set up role after a few more starts to get him into the playoffs with that innings limit.
Haiku, Santana is has $137.5 million reasons to be happy
That’s a stupid trade offer and JP knows it, which is why he asked for that bounty in return.
Nobody is giving up their best young pitcher plus their top 2 prospects for Roy Halladay, or anybody else on the trade market. That’s the same deal Philly turned down.
Don’t go into silly panic mode because the Yankees lost one game.
Brian Cashman would be nuts to make that deal. There is no upside to making that kind of deal from the Yankees perspective.
Why is Ricciardi chasing teams?
Is the market soft?
All signs pointing to the Bronx.
Orioles are horrid. They just flat out stink.
GB: Oh you hush.
SJ – It isn’t silly panic mode because of todays loss.
It really isn’t panic mode at all. I agree that without an extension that is a terrible deal.
But with an extension that deal wouldn’t be so bad. If they locked up Halladay for 5-6 and we are talking IF, then by then the farm system will have 5 more “top” prospects in it.
We see every year how “top” prospects can become nobody so there is no guarantee in the minor leagues. There is no guarantee in Halladay either, but you can be sure he is damn good.
Like a lot of folks, I would not want to give up Hughes for such a short-term gain. If the deal were Joba, Montero, Jackson, i’d take Halladay in a heartbeat.
I heard Yanks interested in Scott Downs.
The only player that I’d consider would be Jackson and go from their….Hughes, Joba & Montero not even a consideration…
Carlos Carrasco, the guy Philly wants to include in the deal instead of Drabek, gave up 6 runs in 6 innings last night in front of the top Blue Jays talent evaluators.
The Jays then decided that they had to have Happ AND Drabek in the deal, along with Dominic Brown.
As of right now, the Phillies decided that was too much to give up for 1 1/2 years of Doc.
If the Blue Jays insist on Drabek AND Happ, he won’t be going to Philadelphia because I doubt the Phillies are going to change their minds between now and July 31.
4-2 Red Sox now
I am bored
5-2 red So.
Jeremy Guthrie stinks. Horrible.
No Money – I speculate about the Scott Downs talk. It is easy to say that you are interested in Scott Downs to get some scouts out to keep watching Halladay.
I mean why would they go after another reliever when Cashman has addressed starting pitchers.
Could be a head game.
Dont worry SJ44, all it will take is for the RS to come along at the last minute like we did for Tex and offer soon to be nonprospect Clay Bucholz, Peter Gammons prospects Michael Bowden and Lars Anderson and whomever wont hurt their present ML roster or future, and JP will dance to the RS tune.
Orioles having picnic during the game.
5-2 RS they just scored
Ah, but Ellsbury gets picked off second to end the inning. To Quote Nelson on the Simpsons: “Haaaa. Haaa!”
When marte coming back?
“Like a lot of folks, I would not want to give up Hughes for such a short-term gain. If the deal were Joba, Montero, Jackson, i’d take Halladay in a heartbeat.”
Be still your beating heart.
“If the deal were Joba, Montero, Jackson, i’d take Halladay in a heartbeat.”
That is a reason Jays asked for Hughes. Greater upside at this point.
Pete does not think Bruney will be any good the rest of the year.
Since the Red Sox won’t trade Clay Buchholz for either Victor Martinez or Adrian Gonzalez, bigger needs for them than Halladay, they aren’t trading Buchholz to Toronto for Doc.
Yankees are always expected to give up way more than any team in a trade.While other teams give nothing.Man I hope Cashman told him Thanks but no thanks!
For whatever reason, the RS really value Buchholz. I haven’t seen anything that makes him the next superstar, but I suppose I haven’t seen enough of him period to have any real opinion.
Anyone else have an neutral opinions on Clay?
Dan July 25th, 2009 at 7:45 pm
Angels offered Jared Weaver, a prospect, and the Jays PICK of any position playing prospect and they said no go.
*****
Maybe two years ago the Jays would have taken Jared. Not lately. He hasn’t been that great.
Yankees are always expected to give up way more than any team in a trade.While other teams give nothing.Man I hope Cashman told him Thanks but no thanks!
The Phillies were asked to give more than the Yankees.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrDxlf9bMYU
Nelson- haha
> Anyone else have an neutral opinions on Clay?
He’s no Phil.
Pete is right,he’s (BRUNEY) lost.
Riccardi’s playing this game like he’s trying to exploit other teams desperation.
Problem is all the teams that have the cash and prospects aren’t desperate, they’re all in 1st place.
Is Riccardi trying to trade Roy Halladay or Herschel Walker?
Nobody is going to gut their farm system like that.
SJ44, The Red Sox understand that Bucholz isn’t as good as ESPN and Peter Gammons would have you believe. If Bucholz was as good as ESPN thinks he is, then he would have started the season in the rotation. They would not have gone out and signed both of Smoltz and Penny, probably just one. They are hedging their bets with him. They think he might be a good major league starter, but in no way do they think that he will be the ace everybody else thinks he will.
Love it, Jennifer! Haha!
There’s absolutely no way I’m giving up Hughes, Montero, and Jackson for Halladay.
Montero and Jackson >>>> Melky, and if the Yankees weren’t going to do Santana for Hughes & Melky, then it would be a big mistake to make this deal for Halladay.
PHIL doesn’t steal!!
Dan
July 25th, 2009 at 8:12 pm
GreenBeret – I agree that is true for the 1 1/3 years. But, if they were able to get 5-6 years out of him with that deal what do you think?
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The immediate problem is trading a major league pitcher for a major league pitcher. NYY still won’t fill the spot. Jackson in a trade is one thing, though, he’s going to be good. Montero is something quite different. Halladay could be gone after 2 months/plus post season. Nobody does that sort of trade for two months.
I still think the club that expands the Halliday talks to include one of thier high salaried outfielders gets the deed done without cleaning the top shelf of blue chippers….I’ve been saying this since day one….Otherwise the price for Doc will be costly….All Riicardi is attenpting to do is get as many teams to get involved as he sets the ceiling….Then he’ll gradually drop the price slightly and get clubs to bid vs. each other…..
SJ44, I know they need a bat more than a pitcher, but if they cant get a bat, but can get Doc for nothing (Bucholz), they’ll do it. Remember, the Red Sox are cheap and the Doc doesnt want an extension. I wouldnt be surprised if the RS are holding out to trade Bucholz for Josh Johnson so they can buy out Johnson’s arbitration years like they did with Beckett.
Remember, the RS pitching is very suspect.
Dan
July 25th, 2009 at 8:21 pm
No Money – I speculate about the Scott Downs talk. It is easy to say that you are interested in Scott Downs to get some scouts out to keep watching Halladay.
I mean why would they go after another reliever when Cashman has addressed starting pitchers.
Could be a head game.
______________________________________________________
What does that accomplish?
2009 J.A. Happ 7-1 2.97 ERA 1.18 WHIP 71/33 K’s/BB AND they ask for their #1 prospect, AND another prospect.
That is about the most outrageous trade you could make.
No Money – It’s just flying under the radar. It’s not telling the media you are after Halladay. Which they never really have given any indication they are. It’s kind of like the Tex trade. Stay out of the spot light as long as you can and the swoop in.
SJ44,
Where did you get the idea that the Red Sox wouldnt give up Buchholz for Adrian Gonzalez? On the news they said that the Padres wouldnt even talk about him. I wish they did. I would give up Buchholz, Anderson and couple other prospects in order to see him in a Red Sox uniform.
Whats going to happen is the same thing as with Johan. Toronto will wait too long, teams will remove their best offer, and Toronto will be stuck with bucket of balls and a Carlos Gomez type in exchange for their star pitcher.
Why would the Marlins trade Josh Johnson?
Bronx Jeers – I think you have JP figured. He’s acting like he’s in the driver’s seat. He isn’t as in control of this as he wants to paint. Whether it’s that he’s fooling himself, or is deliberately trying to portray himself and the Jays that way, thinking it will increase his haul, I don’t know. But, as you said, the teams that can do the deal aren’t desperate enough to make a dumb deal.
Tank – The problem there is the Jays have another year to make a deal. The trade is not necessary at the moment.
Jim Pir-one July 25th, 2009 at 8:30 pm
SJ44, The Red Sox understand that Bucholz isn’t as good as ESPN and Peter Gammons would have you believe. If Bucholz was as good as ESPN thinks he is, then he would have started the season in the rotation. They would not have gone out and signed both of Smoltz and Penny, probably just one. They are hedging their bets with him. They think he might be a good major league starter, but in no way do they think that he will be the ace everybody else thinks he will.
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The Yanks did the very same thing with Hughes.
They resigned Pettitte to take that last rotation slot instead of handing it over to Hughes after his rough 2008 campaign.
No Money, I didnt say Josh Johnson would be traded this year. Obviously he wont. JJ might be in the future.
The Yankees wong get Halliday. The price will never be low enough to happen. Riccardi isnt desparate.
If the Phillies feel froggy,let them jump!
What will probably happen (and which is probably best case scenario with everyone) is that Halladay stays on the troubled Jays for the rest of the year. That would make everyone but JP happy.
It doesn’t matter what ESPN thinks of Red Sox prospects.
JP and the Jays don’t look to ESPN for player evaluations. They make their own evaluations.
He’s also not trading Halladay to the Red Sox unless he gets back Buchholz, Bard AND one or two others in return.
In other words, he wants the same bounty from Boston he seeks from NY.
That’s why neither team will bite and pay such a bounty.
Nobody is gutting their system for Toronto.
Pat M is right. If they can’t gut somebody’s system, the only other way they get value in this deal is to free up more money than just Doc’s deal.
Since NOBODY will touch Vernon Wells, the best, and probably only way to maximize this deal is to move both Rios and Halladay (if possible) in the same deal, get TWO (and no more) real prospects in return, and free up over 60 million in future payroll.
If not, Doc isn’t going anywhere and the day after the trade deadline, Toronto loses bigtime because his price will drop dramatically.
Difference between Hughes and Bucholz *Giuseppe Franco* is Hughes is 2 years younger with major league success. What has Bucholz done, pitch a no hitter. He no hit a minor league team. Woooooooooooooooooooooo. Ya know who else pitched a no hitter. Bud Smith. Where’s he????
I wsih the Halladay talk would go away. Trade him to Milwaukee already.
Pat M,
You and I are beating the same Pan-Pacific drum. Of course we could be marching down the wrong path.
Weaver or Happ, either should be acceptable for Toronto. They need a starter to replace Halladay. And until yesterday, Happ was doing his own Aaron Small imitation.
But JP needs to move Halladay, otherwise it’s just going to hang over the team.
Pat M – I agree. JP may be deliberately setting the price on Doc high, hoping that the monied clubs decide to pony up for Rios/Wells (more likely Rios than Wells) and Doc with needed payroll relief for Toronto and the Rogers’ estate, rather than players.
It sounds kind of convoluted, but I still think if someone takes on Doc and Rios and their salaries, lesser players will get it done.
Teams might be scouting the Jays, but, doubtful it’s about Halladay. Every team in baseball has video and all the reports they need on him, so nothing he has or does is a surprise. They’d be looking at other payers to enlarge a trade.
I want Halladay out of the league. That eliminates potential future losses to Toronto this year.
The Padres told the Red Sox any talk about Gonzalez starts with Buchholz to be included in the deal and the Sox said no.
Its not just Boston. Everybody is overvaluing their prospects, including the Yankees.
Teams aren’t going to cave on this issue. That means, Toronto either lowers its sights or they keep Doc.
I would be shocked if any time gives up one current major league performer AND their top 2-3 prospects for Doc.
If that was the case, a deal would have been done for him with somebody two weeks ago.
JP Happ would not survive the AL East
SJ44, according to “people around baseball”, Clay is a number 1 type starter. And the RS get treated differently than the Yankees, of course favorably. They’re beloved and we’re evil. They wont have to give up the farm to get Roy like the Yankees or any other team might.
Obviously, I dont think Roy will go to the Red Sox, but I have to come to terms with it in case they get handed him like they’ve been handed many before.
Hey JP Riccardi – Edwar Ramirez could be your closer. He strikes out a lot of guys! Give us DOC!
JP Happ’s inability to survive the AL East is not our problem.
But he’s part of the bounty that JP asked for.
Jim Pir-one July 25th, 2009 at 8:40 pm
Difference between Hughes and Bucholz *Giuseppe Franco* is Hughes is 2 years younger with major league success. What has Bucholz done, pitch a no hitter. He no hit a minor league team. Woooooooooooooooooooooo. Ya know who else pitched a no hitter. Bud Smith. Where’s he????
—————–
Hughes didn’t have a ton of major league success either before the season began.
He had a terrible season last year and his trade value dropped significantly.
Same thing with Buchholz.
Spin all you like but that’s the truth.
Why? You don’t have to throw 95 MPH to pitch well. He has pitched awfully well this year and pitched very well against the Yankees earlier in the year. I checked, they reside in the AL East.
Orioles still losing 5-2
GreenBeret – You continue to scout Halladay to see ANYTHING in present that would cause you to say “hey I don’t know where that hitch developed or anything along those lines.”
The past is the past the present is important.
So Ricciardi told Cashman the price for Halladay would be Hughes, AJax & Montero?
Hopefully, Cashman’s response went something like this: “Thanks for the call, J.P. Now keep in touch with yourself.”
Giuseppe, Hughes is 2 years younger, bottom line. Clay is a couple years away from being a nonprospect. Where is Clay’s playoff win??
Aside from the silly Red Sox paranoia, how are the Yankees being treated differently here? JP told BOTH the Yankees and Red Sox it would take a premium for them to get Doc because that would be the cost (ie: the ownership directive) of trading him within the division.
He’s not going to give Doc to the Sox for nothing. That has no chance of happening.
“Why? You don’t have to throw 95 MPH to pitch well. He has pitched awfully well this year and pitched very well against the Yankees earlier in the year. I checked, they reside in the AL East.”
Agreed, as I stated above JA Happ is some kind of good this year. He has been pitching very well. It seems with his stuff he will be able to succeed in the future as well.
Joe G had a tough game today
Dan
July 25th, 2009 at 8:46 pm
GreenBeret – You continue to scout Halladay to see ANYTHING in present that would cause you to say “hey I don’t know where that hitch developed or anything along those lines.”
The past is the past the present is important.
————————————————————
Do you think that every organization interested in Halladay didn’t video tape that game, yesterday? I’m also aware of what scouts do. Teams also have other needs besides starters that Toronto could fill.
SJ44, they’ve been treated differently in the past, not in this instance YET. Just because JP “says something” doesnt mean anything, we’ll see if the RS get Doc for nothing. It’s not a guarantee. You can never be certain with the RS.
When the Yankees need players to replace injury or so on, generally we have pay through our nose. When the RS need people, people become available like white on rice.
Jim Pir-one July 25th, 2009 at 8:47 pm
Giuseppe, Hughes is 2 years younger, bottom line. Clay is a couple years away from being a nonprospect. Where is Clay’s playoff win??
—————
Sigh. Never mind.
I thought I was talking to someone who lives on planet Earth.
I don’t suspect GMs around baseball are comparing playoff wins vs no hitters when it comes to evaluating young arms.
They see upside and both Hughes and Buchholz have a lot of it – which is why the Yanks and Red Sox have no interest in trading them.
this is simple Halladay and company would win the WS for Yankees this year and next….Now is it worth it ?
SJ44
July 25th, 2009 at 8:48 pm
Aside from the silly Red Sox paranoia, how are the Yankees being treated differently here? JP told BOTH the Yankees and Red Sox it would take a premium for them to get Doc because that would be the cost (ie: the ownership directive) of trading him within the division.
He’s not going to give Doc to the Sox for nothing. That has no chance of happening.
————————————————————
I believe his words were that Boston and NYY would have to increase the value by 30% over any other interested team. That’s either stupidity or insanity.
I think that teams are finally understanding the value of their prospects, not necessarily overvaluing them.
GreenBeret – I’m not questioning your intelligence, I’m thinking that anyone seriously interested in Halladay would have someone at the game watching him live. The tapes don’t show everything you want to see.
I hate losing.
You people are just talking about the sox prospects that you’ve seen in the bigs. The difference is that they’re loaded at the AA and AAA level, and NYY has nothing to offer there. Not saying either team will get Halladay but BOS has a shot, NYY has none.
Really? How so? They traded Hanley Ramirez, one of the Top 3 all around players in baseball and the Red Sox #1 prospect, Annibal Sanchez, their second best pitching prospect at the time AND had to assume 21 million dollars of Mike Lowell’s contract to get Josh Beckett.
That’s not being “given” anything.
Biggest deal they have made the last 4 years and they had to give up a lot to get him.
JP Riccardi is not going to hand over Roy Halladay to the Red Sox for nothing. Or to the Yankees for that matter.
They will just hold onto him before he does that.
Giuseppe, obviously playoff wins dont mean anything. I just wanted to throw that in there. The difference is their age, bottom line. The Red Sox dont value Bucholz as much as what everyone’s lead to believe. They’ll give up Bucholz, they’re just waiting for the right player. If it’s not Doc, then it will be next year or the year after, JJ, or anyone else that RS management values.
Joe went against his better judgement today,here’s why.
Any other reliever coming in,that gave up1-2 runs were yanked.
Because Ace has been so good,he left him in too long,and they scored.Yankees had to make up too much ground in 2.5 innings,when no one was hittin.
I don’t take anything Heyman says seriously but I thought this was funny.
http://twitter.com/SI_JonHeyma.....2845612121
#jays suggested today to #yankees it would take joba, hughes and 2 more for #halladay. does NOT look good for yanks.
Rumor has it the Jays now say it would take Joba, Hughes + 2 JP is in some fantasy land.
SJ44, you’re right. They only started their run of success by getting handed Curt Schilling. Oh wait, forget about that, it was by getting to face the Angels, the team whose sole goal is make it to the playoffs and beat the Yankees or lose to the Red Sox, world series be damned.
It’s possible that CC,AJ & Doc could get the Yankees a WR ring the next 2 years, after that 3 years down the road, Jeter,Mo,Jorge would be at the end…Now is it worth it ?
“I don’t take anything Heyman says seriously but I thought this was funny.
http://twitter.com/SI_JonHeyma.....2845612121
#jays suggested today to #yankees it would take joba, hughes and 2 more for #halladay. does NOT look good for yanks.”
I just read that, too…and I’m convinced that Riccardi has lost his bloody mind. That’s not even CLOSE to being reasonable, which says to me that he’s never had any intention of trading Halladay, and really was just hoping to catch a desperate club at the right time, willing to unload the franchise for him. It’s not going to happen.
Jim Pir-one July 25th, 2009 at 8:56 pm
Giuseppe, obviously playoff wins dont mean anything. I just wanted to throw that in there. The difference is their age, bottom line. The Red Sox dont value Bucholz as much as what everyone’s lead to believe. They’ll give up Bucholz, they’re just waiting for the right player. If it’s not Doc, then it will be next year or the year after, JJ, or anyone else that RS management values.
————-
How do you know what the Red Sox think of Buchholz?
Do you have a mole in their front office?
They obviously think a lot of the kid or they wouldn’t be holding onto him so tightly.
Not everything is an Oliver Stone movie with conspiracy theories galore.
Jim Pir-one July 25th, 2009 at 8:56 pm
Giuseppe, obviously playoff wins dont mean anything. I just wanted to throw that in there. The difference is their age, bottom line. The Red Sox dont value Bucholz as much as what everyone’s lead to believe. They’ll give up Bucholz, they’re just waiting for the right player. If it’s not Doc, then it will be next year or the year after, JJ, or anyone else that RS management values.
————-
How do you know what the Red Sox think of Buchholz?
Do you have a mole in their front office?
They obviously think a lot of the kid or they wouldn’t be holding onto him so tightly.
I hadn’t been paying close attention to Claggett, but, it appers that the Yanks are converting him into a starter. 4 innings in the start and 2 hits, 1 run, 1 walk and 2 strikeouts.
GB7,
30% premium? Definitely doable. Considering he’s getting 0% from the other teams right now.
yea doc ain’t going nowhere
There are no guarantees that Roy Halladay will give the Yankees the next two WS. That’s just stupid.
I thought Johan Santana was going to “guarantee” the Mets the playoffs and WS? How’s that working out?
No one player guarantees anything to anybody.
All teams are overvaluing their prospects now.
When you hear teams talk about their 6th or 8th rated prospect in the organization as “untouchable”, you are overvaluing your prospects.
Approximately 10% of every player drafted each year plays one full season in the majors.
That means for every 1,500 players drafted annually, 150 eventually play one full season in the majors. Out of those 150, approximately 20 become all star players. That’s how tough it is to make in the majors.
“Untouchable” propsects are supppose to be all star players, not just everyday big league players.
Simple math will tell you all of these prospsects are being overvalued given the way some teams act when inquired about them.
I have to think that the a WS ring is more possible the next 2 year with Halladay than without him
I still can’t believe the Jays even wanted Happ from the Phillies. He’s 27 years old! By the time the Jays are ready to contend he’ll be 30.
my thinking that 3 years from now, Jeter,Mo & Jorge will be hard to replace, thus go for it now.
If the Brewers or Cubs could they would bite.They need help in the NL central.
Cornin Joseph and Garrison Lassiter continue to hit well in Charlston. Joseph is 3-4 with a homer. Maruszac is also hitting well since they moved him down to Charleston. He shouldn’t have skipped that level to begin with. He’s 1-3 win a 2 run double.
Yankees won’t win anything without Mo, he’s the main reason they got what they got while he’s been here
6 years of a salary controlled good player is more highly valued that most trades for rentals. And of course, it depends on who the 6th or 8th ranked prospect a team is protecting. Some 6th and 8th ranked prospecs are worth protecting, others are for trading.
***Corbin*** Joseph
The Red Sox are not going to trade for Halladay. They asked for Buchholz, Kelly(last year’s pick) and couple other good prospects. There is no way Theo is giving up Casey Kelly. They are very high on him.
joeman, so i guess we cant win with another closer. Mo is the best, but what about Keith Foulke, Adam Wainright. Anybody can succeed in the closer’s role. Dont twist my words with that, Nobody can be Mo, but there are plenty of successful closers.
Jim Pir-one July 25th, 2009 at 8:56 pm
Giuseppe, obviously playoff wins dont mean anything. I just wanted to throw that in there. The difference is their age, bottom line. The Red Sox dont value Bucholz as much as what everyone’s lead to believe. They’ll give up Bucholz, they’re just waiting for the right player. If it’s not Doc, then it will be next year or the year after, JJ, or anyone else that RS management values.
——————–
The Red Sox obviously think very high of Buchholz or they wouldn’t be holding onto him so tight.
Not everything is an Oliver Stone movie. No conspiracies.
Mo is the MVP of this team,don’t think they would have won what they did without him
*successful closers on WS winning teams. And mind you, Foulke threw nothing but slop, but then again, he pitched for the RS.
The way clubs are valuing their prospects can speak to their honest valuation of their baseball playing futures, or, more cynically, of their belief that you only need a player to stick in the lineup.
By this line, it’s all about the money. I wonder if most teams business model is such that they get the same revenue regardless of W-L, regardless of whom is playing SS, or who is in their starting rotation. By that logic, it doesn’t matter whom the said player is, so you might as well pay him the minimum (read – young and cost-controlled).
It is the few teams, like the Yankees, Red Sox, Phillies, where a real shot at the playoffs may lead to the WS, and significantly more revenue. For these teams, it’s worth the added cost to get those marginal revenue dollars. And even then, you don’t need an All Star at every position. Just fill the gaping holes, and have enough supporting cast to be truly competitive for the role of the dice.
Real cynical, I know, but we’re talking business here. Only fans talk wins and losses. Business people talk dollars as their wins and losses.
joeman July 25th, 2009 at 9:08 pm
Yankees won’t win anything without Mo, he’s the main reason they got what they got while he’s been here
————-
Of course not. No team has won the World Series without Mo in the past 10 years.
Damn!!!
red sox are winning 5-2 and look like they are going to add more! 
Now we’re going to only be 1.5 games ahead
another thing joeman, as great as Jeter is, his best days are behind him. We don’t have a small window. I think we’re at the cusp of a new Dynasty.
Maybe the yankees should go after Cliff Lee instead. Jarrod Washburn???
joeman, but we wont win anything without him??
Giuseppe, whos talking conspiracies? Baseball people think highly of Bucholz. The RS know this, play him up, while waiting for somebody to their liking becomes available, then trade him. That’s just good business.
Jim why do you even answer him,he knows everything and will argue constantly,because he’s full of himself.IGNORE the guy,save brain cells.
JOeLI.
Great Post.
ROCE. Return on capital employed. I would add the Angels as well. Very well said as alawys.
-dennis
Mo has to go down as the greatest in history. 26 championships? That’s incredible.
j/k Had to pile on.
pete, what would it take to pry jon garland from the d-backs? his contract runs out at the end of the season and i think he would be a good middle-rotation guy to fill in for the rest of the season especially with joba’s innings limit coming up.
If that was the case, how come they didn’t get Victor Martinez or Adrian Gonzalez? Both Cleveland and SD asked for Buchholz in return and the Sox said no.
We get that you are paranoid about the Red Sox. However, your theory doesn’t hold up since if the Sox wanted to trade Buchholz, they would solve their current dilemma of being a bat short.
Anybody like Rios. The lesser of 2 evils. 28 years old. Speedy, good arm, decent fielder but Cano -like discipine.
Yankees most likely will need a corner next season. He can also play CF.
Makes about 12 mil for next 5 years which is a lot considering his production this season.
Wells will be earning Jeter-like $$$ very soon. Good luck with that.
Jim Pir-one July 25th, 2009 at 9:15 pm
Giuseppe, whos talking conspiracies? Baseball people think highly of Bucholz. The RS know this, play him up, while waiting for somebody to their liking becomes available, then trade him. That’s just good business.
————-
The Red Sox think highly of Buchholz, too. Perhaps that’s why they won’t trade him.
If they won’t give him up for Victor Martinz or Adrian Gonzalez – two positions of serious need for them – then they probably don’t have any intention of trading him at all.
Falcone July 25th, 2009 at 9:14 pm
another thing joeman, as great as Jeter is, his best days are behind him. We don’t have a small window. I think we’re at the cusp of a new Dynasty.
———————————————————
having one of his better years,will be very interesting to see who replaces him ( down the road)
ORIOLES STINK!
SJ,
You beat me to it in response to Mr. Red Sox Paranoia.
SJ44,
I was under the impression that Gonzales wasnt going to be traded. How could they decline a trade that was never offered them.
Is clay worth Victor Martinez when they can get a top notch starter in a year. They are probably holding out to give up less for Martinez. Is it not possible that Clay is too valuable to give up for Victor but not for another player in a year.
JoeLI.
Great post.
ROCE. It is all about return on capital employed. Regardless of the business.
Solid post as always.
-dennis
I can see why the Red Sox won’t trade Buchholz.
Penny? Gone
Smoltz? Gone
Daisuke? Mediocre
Wakefield? Mixed bag. Gives you length, but he’s old and who knows if he can stay healthy.
That leaves them with Beckett & Lester and a whole lot of questions behind them.
The RS sure come alive at home,but on the road it’s a joke.
Glad the Yankees play well on the road.
So you’re both saying it’s not possible that a pitcher that everyone else values it too valuable to give up for Victor Martinez rather than for somebody better.
We’ll see. They can get Martinez as the deadline nears for less than Bucholz. I wouldnt get rid of my highest trade piece for Victor, even if my problem was hitting. I’d hold out to give up less.
A. Gonzales is not available.
Garland would get smoked in the AL East.
Yankees OF defense is as bad as it gets…
Hmm, same thing with Bobby Abreu. Wait til the deadline, and the Yankees gave up nothing for him.
With Seattle trailing a very hot Angel team and with the Wild Card coming out of the AL East, it’s just a matter of days before they open up their own mid-summer sale….That will immediately cause Toronto to lower it’s price on The Doc……Also, Wells & Rios have no trade deals, so if JP wants to spin them off as individual items, it’s going to be tough…..The clock is ticking louder in Toronto…..
“they would solve their current dilemma of being a bat short.”
A bat short? Really?
BTW LaRoche just poked one in his first game for BOS.
The Tribe isn’t desperate to trade Victor Martinez either.
So the Red Sox are going to have to make an offer the Tribe can’t refuse if they want him.
And Mel is absolutely right about the Red Sox pitching depth.
Right now, the only sure things in their 2010 rotation is Beckett and Lester. Lots of big question marks after that.
Beckett…$12MM club option with a $2MM buyout
JoeLI.
Great post. It always about ROCE for any business.
Well said.
-dennis
slim pickings in the 2010 OF FA market….
If KLong can do anything with Rios, I would take that contract if it meant getting Doc. With Damon and Matsui, each making 13M, coming off the books after the season, they can slide Rios’ salary in.
I think M hit the nail on the head with his/her assessment of the Red Sox situation with Bucholz. Quality starting pitchers command money, and if they have a cost-controlled one staring them in the face, why give him up? If that’s their calculation, then they have correctly, IMO, figured out that pitching is the coin of the realm. Slotting him as their number 3 starter can solve a big problem.
Exactly Joe from Long Island,
they will save Clay for that reason, why give him up for Victor. Victor is not worth a cost controlled pitcher, especially with their 2010 lack of SP depth. They’ll wait til a better option becomes available down the road.
Rios would be a nice addition
Buuuut, if the Red Sox system is as stacked as some people think then they should be able to get that big bat without Buccholz.
I don’t know what’s worse, fans overvaluing their own prospects or overvaluing other team’s prospects.
The latter is a violation punishable in kangaroo court. GUILTY!
Theyll just get the Bellhorn’s and Laroches of the world and probably get rewarded rather than give up Bucholz for Victor.
Did somebody say Laroche hit a HR??
“Did somebody say Laroche hit a HR??”
Yes
The O’s have a long way to go, but the first man is on in the 9th.
Yup, right over left “field”. Left half-field? 3/4 field?
prospects…are just that, give me the somewhat young proven player over a prospect or prospects anytime….get me Halladay
Rios would be an expensive-and just OK addition.
If the Yanks take Wells, they could probably have Doc for Igawa and the rights to distribute Angel Berroa’s Yankeeography.
Bronx Jeers – LOL!
Oh, I disagree.
Rios would be a fine addition. He’s better than Swisher.
And if you don’t count the team option in the last year, it works out to about $54M for 5 years.
O’s have men at the corners.
“Yup, right over left “field”. Left half-field? 3/4 field?”
More HR in the new Yankee Stadium this year than all of 2008 in the old one and you’re griping about a short porch?
Decent player moves from PIT to BOS and catches fire in an environment where fans actually care about the team. Sound familiar?
And Papelbum is up now!
Joba, Hughes and more?
Cash: Ricciardi why don’t you
go Buchholz yourself
I’m sure Ricciardi was asked what he wanted for Halladay and gave an honest answer. The fact that NYY has nothing of value in the minors isn’t his fault.
Nevermind. O’s suck.
Rios… Yankees def OF stinks
Jon Heyman now reporting that the Blue Jays want Joba AND Hughes AND 2 others for Halladay. JP Ricciardi can go to h**l
“prospects…are just that, give me the somewhat young proven player over a prospect or prospects anytime…get me Halladay”
The difference is that, if the rumors are true, in our case, they aren’t just asking for prospects. They’re asking for two “proven” ML players in Joba and Hughes.
One might question labeling Joba and Hughes as proven, but Phil has thrown an almost-no hitter, and has been nothing short of dominant in the pen. Joba has an ERA under four, and has shown himself to be a well-above-average pitcher at times. I don’t think there’s really a question as to if these guys can hang at the major league level, given their age, ceiling, and current track record.
If this was a case of Toronto asking for ONE of those guys, Montero, Jackson, and one more, I’d probably jump at it. But it’s not. They’re asking too much, and are apparently doing so with everyone. I honestly don’t think Doc is going anywhere this season.
really sick of this Halladay talk, trade the guy or don’t.
“The fact that NYY has nothing of value in the minors isn’t his fault”
the fact that you have no brain matter is likely your mother’s fault.
“Rios would be a fine addition. He’s better than Swisher.”
That’s not saying much though. Swish is a butcher and hits .240
Regardless, I would probably take Rios in that deal if it meant keeping Joba, Hughes and Montero.
think Tor takes Cody in any trade talk with the Yankees
“the fact that you have no brain matter is likely your mother’s fault.”
I guess you could say the same about the entire baseball press, because that’s the consensus, Skippy.
SJ
DOn’t you think that perhaps this year more so that in years past teams are holding onto their prospects and valuing them more because of the economy and the uncertainty of when it will flip.
With economic uncertainty with some teams their high valued propsects even though they are just that come with a lower price tag and longer control window.
I’m in the camp of stopping all the Halladay talk. I’d even sign a petition that I don’t want Cashman to sell off our future for this short-term gain that we don’t really even need.
We are NOT getting roy halladay.
We PROBABLY are NOT getting alex rios.
The yanks are willing to live with Hinske/Swisher in the corner, Damon (when healthy) in left, and melky/gardner in center…if they can get a solid player on the cheap, they will, but outside of rios, i’m not sure of any possible outfielders available at a decent price that would be big upgrades over what we have now.
The yanks will be more focused on acquiring a lefty reliever, and/or a starting pitcher.
Possible starting pitchers worth talking about include Washburn and Cliff Lee.
Their prices are probably too high, and Cliff Lee is really the only guy who makes a significant difference, although Washburn is a nice option to have as a 3rd starter in the playoffs (although he is pitching like an ace this season.) Andy is also no more than a 4th starter at this point in his career and Joba has an innings limit.
seriously, Jimmy J, what the hell are you talking about?
it sounds to me you’re getting your info from Joe Morgan.
Hinske/Swisher in the corner, Damon (when healthy) in left, and melky/gardner in center……I feel a earthquake !!!!! thats just the Yankee OF running around
Just ignore JJ.
Jonathan Sanchez continues to pitch well.
there’s no reason for the Phils to give up that much – they can still win the WS this year.
Will this blog blow up if the Sox win? They lost plenty this past week – they weren’t going to keep doing it. It’s not fair to ask or expect the Yankees to win every game – it’s just not humanly possible.
“Their prices are probably too high, and Cliff Lee is really the only guy who makes a significant difference,”
We already heard the tag for him, still too much.
with all that $ coming off the books to bad the 2010 MLB FA class isn’t that well stocked
Nite everybody! I’m hitting the hay early tonight because my bed is free of Halladay talk and moneyball talk. Let’s get ‘em tomorrow, Yanks!
Montero is 2-4 with a solo homer.
Jackson finished the double header 0-3 with a bases loaded walk.
Either way, Doc is not coming to the Yankees. The Jays don’t want him anywhere near the AL East (foolish, just foolish, given the rumors about how many other players would be traded once Doc went – I mean, after that, who cares? It’s not like they’ll be competitive anyway. It seems to me that the Jays are letting their pride get in the way). On the other hand, I think the Sox would get Doc if there was no injunction against the AL East. They are willing to trade Bucholz and the Yankees are not willing (IMO) to trade Phil. That’s what it would come down to.
I don’t think the Yankees are overvaluing Hughes or Joba (or Montero, I suppose). They haven’t been given a chance to overvalue their other prospects because the Jays are not interested in doing anything other than raping the farm system of the top dogs (which is their right). If the Jays came with a reasonable offer, I think some good prospects would be headed north. JP’s “offer” to the Yanks is one of those types that are made when the answer is already known. By this “offer”, he’s telling the Yankees forget about it…
If anyone is wanting to keep up with the Trenton Thunder this year, try this link.
http://www.rider.edu/175_16702.htm
It’s also on 107.7 FM out of Rider University.
“The Jays don’t want him anywhere near the AL East”
Ricciardi has gone on record saying that he has no problem with Halladay elsewhere in the AL East.
Halladay going to any contender doesn’t guarantee them a thing – already I hear that if the Phils get him, they could have a mini-dynasty (this was on one of my other boards). LOL Let’s just hand the WS to them on a silver platter……
GreenBeret7 do u have a link for scranton?
Sure that’s what JP is saying – and then look what he asked for. That’s not a sign of being willing to negotiate – that’s a ridiculous “offer” and he knew it.
Just got back from the Staten Island Yankees-Brooklyn Cyclones game. Unfortunately the Yankees lost 5-4. The only inning the Yankees scored was the 5th. Brooklyn was perfect through 4 and Kyle Higoshioka led off with a single, Neil Medchill doubled and after an intentional walk, D’Angelo Mack cleared the bases and then came in on a single by Ryan Baker. That was it.
I did enjoy the ballpark though. Lot of giveways-gym bag,t-shirts and fireworks after the game.
Tomorrow AM I am off to Boca Raton for 3 days to visit my mother. Sure I’ll have some time to check in.
JP playing this out with Halliday is more to protect himself from being axed at this point than anything else.
I think the Wells contract was the final straw for the ownership, which is in transition, or JP would have been gone already.
Think like an owner for a minute.
Say the follwing name: “BJ Ryan.” Ask yourself who pushed to pay him $55 over 5?
Say the following name: “AJ Burnett.” Ask yourself who allowed him an opt-out after 3 years?
Living in Pittsburgh, we saw Dave Littlefield first hand for many years. While JP is not a bad, the writing is on the wall.
SI_JonHeyman: #jays suggested today to #yankees it would take joba, hughes and 2 more for #halladay. does NOT look good for yanks.
0——
Is he CRAZY!!! I have an idea: how about CC and AJ, too?
Rishi, the Jays probably had the same type offer for the Sox – it’s not really an “offer” as they knew the Yanks would hang up on them. Forget Doc – he’ll get traded for garbage before he gets traded to an AL East team.
Pitt-Yankee-Fan….I agree with you…This is JP’s last stand…He’s spent a ton of money, and all he has to show for it is a 2nd place trophy 2006…..His mission is to stream line the oraganization fianancialy, remove as much of the bloated contracts that has the Jays swimming in red ink….Get the club ready and appealing for selling….
Right now, Pete is:
a) at the movies
b) listening to Springsteen
c) knee-deep in a never-ending string of Ho Hos
“*D’Angelo Mack cleared the bases* and then came in on a single by Ryan Baker. That was it”
Did he fart?
Betsy – somehow that just seems stupid – so they hang on to him or trade him for less than they would get from an AL East team…he’s leaving regardless. Riccardi himself said he can’t prevent Halladay from signing with an AL East team as a free agent.
Stubborness (there is an Indian word that fits, but I don’t know the translation)…
Rishi how about MO CC AJ JOBA PHIL JESUS AROD (with Yankees paying 23mm of his salary yrly) and why stop there.
How about an arm.leg,and your 1st born child,Greedy buzzards!!
Damon – done…I’ll throw in the “mystique” that is Jeter for good measure.
I mean really – who do they expect to bite at requirements like that!
“SI_JonHeyman: #jays suggested today to #yankees it would take joba, hughes and 2 more for #halladay. does NOT look good for yanks.”
It’s ok Cash countered with Igawa, Tomko and a pie cooked by AJ.
Brandon… I’M AWESOME ! BOSTON 8 NEW YORK 0 = 1st PLACE NYY
July 25th, 2009 at 10:00 pm
Jonathan Sanchez continues to pitch well.
Yeah. 5 ER in 5 innings. He’s as awesome as you are.
Rishi
throw in 5 yrs of private GM negotiating techniques,from Cashman (the art of the deal),and 2 yrs of draft picks from the Yankees.
CT23
July 25th, 2009 at 10:16 pm
GreenBeret7 do u have a link for scranton?
————————————————————
No free ones. It’s 6.95 a month or 29.95 a year. With that, you can get live video feeds on different teams……just like MLB.com. Not all games are on, though and not all of the time.
http://web.minorleaguebaseball.....ultimedia/
Rishi, I think it’s dumb because the Jays could probably get some good prospects from the Yankees if they were being open minded about this. They’re not, so that’s that. I’m not even following these talks (well, on vacation, it’s hard to anyway) as the Yankees will not be involved. They need to concentrate on getting a pitcher who is currently on a team that WILL trade with them
“Yeah. 5 ER in 5 innings. He’s as awesome as you are.”
He cracked after the 3rd inning. He was pitching a no hitter too until the 4th, really it was Troy Tulowitski that got to him, PS were you just waiting to add that, that comment was made an hr. ago. Obssess much?
I was getting ready to shut down the laptop for yet another work trip at 8 am tomorro when I saw the Tweets…I think there needs to be a balance between “not trading in my division” and what is best for my team.
Is it best for the Jays to rule out two teams with the ability to match up from a prospects/cash perspective b/c of division – if it was all about the $$, I think the chances are greater than not that Halladay ends up in the AL East after he declared free agency.
May be the affects of all the wine tonight, but reading Heyman’s tweet I was struck by either the arrogance or naivite of riccardi and the jays
Caught a picture of Jesus Montero,standing next to Cashman.
It was like watching Shrek, standing next to Mickey Mouse!!
Was anyone listening to the radio for the game today?
When Girardi took out Pettitte, Suzy definitely said “As Joe Torre makes the pitching change…”
Wonder if that was some sort of Freudian slip
The complextion of the talks will be shifting after this weekend…..Creativity will get Doc Halliday…..Whatever dael is in place, both Theo and Cashman will get one final chance at the prize….As I mentioned earlier, Seattle is done, they will be opening up house by Monday….That will dim the glow of the Halliday spotlight……The longer Riicardi plays his hand, the less he’s going to get in return…..
“Scoff if you will, but there has been a good vibe around this team all season. This is a tighter group than in recent years, the manager has had the right touch and the newcomers have fit in seamlessly…Does that translate to success on the field? Look at the standings.”
Ok I agree that the team has a better vibe, but only to a minor extent. Was there a good vibe around this team as recently as June 23rd when the Yanks just lost 5 out of 6 to the Nats and Marlins and were 0-8 against Boston and 5 games out of first place? Or better yet, did anybody care if there was a good vibe at that point?
Better team chemistry is nice and all, but this good vibe is not even on the top 10 list of reasons why the yankees are better this year. Here are ten better reasons, just off the top of my head, in no particular order.
1. Ponson is not here to waste 15 starts and 80 innings of completely terrible pitching.
2. The Yankees aren’t completely wasting 300 plate appearances on Jose Molina and 100 plate appearances on I-Rod and 100 plate appearances on Chad Moeller. These guys were terrible and killed the offense last year.
3. Wilson Betemit is not wasting 200 plate appearances off the bench.
4. Melky Cabrera is not wasting 400 plate appearances with an OPS+ of 68 this year. Yikes.
5. Cano is not putting up an OPS+ of 86 this year.
6. Jeter is not putting up an OPS+ of 102 this year.
7. Brett Gardner is not putting up an OPS+ of 53 this year.
8. The bench as a whole hasn’t been nearly as useless as last year’s with Sexson, Betemit, Ensberg, Duncan, Gonzalez, and terrible catchers.
9. Matsui is playing more and playing better in 2009 than he did in 2008.
10. Yanks are not giving a combined 27 starts to the likes of Ranser and Pavano with an ERA+ of 80.
I’m sure there are many many more reasons like these that are more integral to the Yanks improved 2009 team than improved team chemistry is. Now, maybe you think all of these things have improved this year because of the improved team chemistry. And if you do think that…then you are nuts.
AROGANCE,GREED,and wanting to keep his job,even with no fans in the seats,after the trade of Halladay.
Season tickets holders have to be angry.
Thank goodness the Yankees don’t operate like most of these teams,with mid season sales.
Which is why he’ll end up in Philly. My god people com’on already, the closest AL team that might land him may be the Angels other than that PHI, LAD, SFG and MIL. A dark horse in the AL is Texas, Nolan Ryan is said to love Doc Halladay he certainly has the pieces and Texas is a potential playoff team.
If I’m Philly, do I think I need to drain my system to land halladay when the rest of my division is so pathetic?
SI_JonHeyman: #yankees might – repeat, might – consider giving up joba for #halladay. but wont entertain request of joba & hughes.
“SI_JonHeyman #yankees might – repeat, might – consider giving up joba for #halladay. but wont entertain request of joba & hughes.”
No Jon, we might not.
The thought of Joba blowing away Yankee hitters while Halladay is long since retired is very unappealing.
Wait until he hits the free agent market, if he does. If he doesn’t, so be it.
That’s not even a fact that’s Jon Heyman’s opinion.
Brandon, The Texas Rangers just were floated a loan from MLB, I think it’s unlikely they’ll be using that bank to purchase Doc Halliday…..I remember in 2001, Selig approved cash loans to the Arozona Diamondbacks, and they went out and spent money for some players down the stretch….That didn’t go over very well with some of the owners, as they used MLB money to buy a championship…..Hell the new ownership is still paying off some of those contracts…..Mariners get involved as sellers, the asking price for Halliday will certainly have to adjust to the laws of supply and demand….
Pat M why the hell did Olney and Starks name them dark horses then? I agree there unless somethings up.
L’Etranger.
I really do not understand the “ho ho’s” shot you took at Pete. He works his tail off to give us/we/you/they this forum while brining an advertising revenue stream to his newspaper. He has also worked hard to get in better shape.
Did it make you feel better to take a shot?
Sad for you, if so.
-dennis
Tonight, watching the Rockies game, the announcers said, well the Yankees have cooled off, they lost today to the A’s.
So there ya have it, the Yankees are in a swoon. lol
Arod would still be sucking the Rangers dry if not for Boras,and the opt out fiasco.
I hope we dont trade joba or hughes
Heyman doesn’t have any idea what he is talking about.
I’ll never understand how he’s earned this reputation of being a top notch reporter.
He’s full of BS 95% of the time.
Why does everyone who supposedly hates the Yankees,always watch to see what they’re doing?
Brandon, I don’t have a clue as to why they’d try to put that out there…….JP leaks some b.s. to catch the Angels attention ????
Damon July 25th, 2009 at 11:45 pm
Why does everyone who supposedly hates the Yankees,always watch to see what they’re doing?
———-
Same reason why so many Yankee fans care so much about what the Red Sox are doing.
I’ll be glad when the trade deadline comes,so no more bogus spots journalist speculate on the Yankees.
Yeah Heyman is a joke, especially when he tries analyzing stuff.
Rishi
July 25th, 2009 at 11:23 pm
SI_JonHeyman: #yankees might – repeat, might – consider giving up joba for #halladay. but wont entertain request of joba & hughes.
————————————
LOL Heyman today on wfan said he didn’t hear that from any yankee people. That was him just speculating Heyman doesn’t like Joba.
SI_JonHeyman: #yankees might – repeat, might – consider giving up joba for #halladay. but wont entertain request of joba & hughes.
======================
Wake me when this is over
I dont know how much credibility this site has…but…take a look guys —> http://mlbwhispers.wordpress.com/
I’m not sure how great of an idea that is. yes rios and halladay would be really nice to have with not having a stable outfield once the offseason starts but…JOba has been really doin well lately, as has hughes. I would stick with the guys we have.
“Brandon, I don’t have a clue as to why they’d try to put that out there…….JP leaks some b.s. to catch the Angels attention ????”
That may be it.
JP is really going to screw this up for the Jays.
I would suck it up and get the guys I want – Drabek & Brown
add Donald and another prospect in there and see if the Phillies take Rolen’s contract too and call it a day. In the end it is better than what Twins got for Santana and the Jays save almost 30 million off the payroll next season. It may not be as good as the Bedard deal, but the Jays save money.
They could also grab other pieces they may need by trading Scutaro, RIOS, Downs, and Overbay at the deadline.
If you are going to do it – then do it.
I do believe that Cashman has been contact with PJ., and he’ll get the chance to trump what ever deal nears finalization…….If Toronto wants either Hughes or Joba, Cashman still needs another starter…..Joba could go back to the pen to replace Hughes if he’s the traded one…..I just cannot see Cashman trading Hughes……MLB Whispers, junk mail……
I dont know, i found the MLB Whispers just as informative as any other. Maybe this guy has a little “In” to the rumors some how lol
Maybe its Peter Gammons in disguise because he can’t handle talking about the Yankees as “Peter Gammons” LOL!
Jake your guess is as good as anyone else’s…..I do remember reading some of their stuff during the offseason….I retract the junk mail comment…..Too harsh…
no posts
I guess Halladay will be staying with the Jays.
Makes sense the jays want both Hughes and Chamberlain. They asked for both Bucholtz and Bard from the red sox. Yankee fans need to forget Halladay. Maybe Washburn or Bedard could be more realistic.
Bedard may be done for the season.
Arod’s b-day party is tonight somewhere, yes Kate Hudson is throwing it, it’s safe to say today would be a good day to rest him.
haha, Brandon.
Just reading about it at Bryan Hoch’s blog.
Alex must’ve been so proud introducing her to his teammates. Bet he steered her clear of Jeetah, though.
Where the heck is everyone? Can’t talk baseball with Brandon because he doesn’t want Halladay and I don’t want Sanchez.
lol m, I don’t want Halladay b/c of the price tag not b/c I wouldn’t want him
4-5 players w/ high upside (although can all flame out)
possibility of 4-5 yrs. of service yrs. dominating elsewhere no more than 5 mil per whooping our assets after Doc is done, And Doc having to live up to the highest contract for a NYC SP basically he’ll be the highest paid in baseball and if he doesn’t win a ring in NY the most overpaid SP in baseball will be the tag that follows him.
Doc has never pitched a big game in his life, no one knows how he’ll react to a big stage.
lol m, I don’t want Halladay b/c of the price tag not b/c I wouldn’t want him
4-5 players w/ high upside (although can all flame out)
possibility of 4-5 yrs. of service yrs. dominating elsewhere no more than 5 mil per whooping our assets after Doc is done, And Doc having to live up to the highest contract for a NYC SP basically he’ll be the highest paid in baseball and if he doesn’t win a ring in NY the most overpaid SP in baseball will be the tag that follows him.
Doc has never pitched a big game in his life, no one knows how he’ll react to a big stage.
===========
so in another words, I want Tim Lincecum.
Brandon,
You don’t understand. This. Is. Doc. Halladay. We’re. Talking. About.
Doc/CC/AJ/monkey/robot=favorites each and every year (of course he’ll sign an extension) for the next 5 years.
I don’t really care either way. If he’s traded to Podunk and reaches free agency, maybe he wants to hang out with us?
But if we’re going to be the Evil Empire, shouldn’t we go all the way? As a bonus, Francessa will be so embarrassed, he’ll convert to the mets.
Taking on another big contract would grease the wheels, and lower the asking price.
m,
we paid CC to be our ace. if we went to acquire Halladay, wouldn’t that would “disrespect” CC? just saying….
Santana jumped at NY,because he wanted out of Minn.He didn’t think they were serious about rebuilding.I bet he wishes he’d waited for free agency.Look at the Mutts,pitiful state,may not make the post season.
No,
You would have 3 aces.
-dennis
Brandon that’s a stretch even for you regarding Halladay & the postseason…..Hughes & Joba clearly trump Bucholtz & Bard…..In fact that demand is boarderline extortion
Look at the pitching order since the All Star break,starts with AJ,then CC.WHY IS THIS?
“Brandon,
You don’t understand. This. Is. Doc. Halladay. We’re. Talking. About.”
Never. pitched. a. big. game. in. his. life.
Contract negotations off the charts, bidders raising the prices to a ridiculous amount, your system pushed back 3-4 yrs. in next to MLB ready players.
NO. THANKS.
Pat M, when ppl talk about these moves they really don’t think about the longterm, how many yrs. does Jetes have left at SS ? Georgy has 2 more at C. Mo ?
Who plays CF ?
Who plays RF ?
Who plays LF ?
What are you doing after Doc’s 4 yrs. or 5 yrs. are over ?
Looking for another middle age ACE. The same thing over and over and over again, yet this time who are you going to trade for them that are ML ready ? who is waiting to step up when an arm gets hurt. No one thinks here.
This season when Jetes was hurt Ramiro Pena stepped in, when Georgy got hurt Cisco eyes stepped up, when the BP was in danger Yusssse was inserted, when we needed a LH reliever Coke stepped in that role, when we needed a long reliever Aceves stepped in…we are 20 games better b/c of this + our offense. Why are ppl blind to that?
This season when Jetes was hurt Ramiro Pena stepped in, when Georgy got hurt Cisco eyes stepped up, when the BP was in danger Yusssse was inserted, when we needed a LH reliever Coke stepped in that role, when we needed a long reliever Aceves stepped in…we are 20 games better b/c of this + our offense. Why are ppl blind to that?
====
Yep, still waiting on Ajax and Montero to make an impact. dare I say Juan Miranda and POSSIBLY Jorge Vasquez?
The problem with Doc is that he’s on record for wanting to test the free agent market after 2010. Might he change his mind and sign a contract extension? Maybe. But can’t be sure.
That’s what’s nerve-racking to me about hearing Hughes and Joba’s names in these talks. We’ve been trained for the past 3+ years to love these guys. They’re OUR guys.
It would be hard enough to part with one of them for 5 years of Halladay, although it’s hard to deny it’s the right move. But if Halladay decided he didn’t dig NY and chose to split after 2010, that would be hard to swallow.
the Stilleto in Nanuet?
trust me on this — it’s all good.
that said, I would not give up Joba or Phil Hughes for 20 of their strippers, much less Roy Halladay (who could possibly be had for cold hard cash after the 2010 season).
“Yep, still waiting on Ajax and Montero to make an impact. dare I say Juan Miranda and POSSIBLY Jorge Vasquez?”
Miranda is trade bait or depth in the future, Jorge Vasquez DH or trade bait again depth incase someone goes down. I’d go as far as saying Cashman having them makes him not that desperate.
Can you imagine Gardenhoser or Melky gets hurt and you can plug in Jackson like you did El Nino for SS/3B/W/E or Jesus if Georgy is out for 3 wks. or Miranda if Teix (god forbid is on the DL for 15 days), these are things the organization needs to continue to preech. Organizational depth.
Brandon, I am not advocating the trade of either Joba and certainly not Hughes….But do remember, both of them will be hitting free agency sooner than we think…..No team is being asked for anybody close to Hughes & Joba…..I like Halladay along with Rios in exchange for a lesser package of prospects….That’s been my stance since Doc went on the market…Make no mistake, having Doc Halladay fronting the rotation gives the Bombers their best shot at a Championship over eveyone else
Brandon… I’M AWESOME ! BOSTON 8 NEW YORK 0 = 1st PLACE NYY
July 26th, 2009 at 2:23 am
Miranda is trade bait or depth in the future, Jorge Vasquez DH or trade bait again depth incase someone goes down. I’d go as far as saying Cashman having them makes him not that desperate.
Can you imagine Gardenhoser or Melky gets hurt and you can plug in Jackson like you did El Nino for SS/3B/W/E or Jesus if Georgy is out for 3 wks. or Miranda if Teix (god forbid is on the DL for 15 days), these are things the organization needs to continue to preech. Organizational depth.
——————————————————–
Hughes and Joba are the only ones that I wish were untouchable, mostly because of the emotional connection. We’ve seen what they can do at a major league level and sky’s the limit.
The other names we’ve just heard. Montero will most likely be amazing, but there’s a lot of organizational depth at catcher (assuming Montero ends up being a catcher). Cervelli, Romine, Sanchez…
Vazquez, Miranda, all expendable. Tex and Arod have the corners tied up for the next 8 years.
If Pena goes, there’s Nunez.
We’re a little light on outfield prospects, but that’s a risk to take if it means getting the best pitcher in baseball.
BJK I know, I’m just adding the depth has kept this ship afloat, but names like combos of Joba+Hughes+Jackson+Montero…TAKE A FLYING LEAP JP.
Joba Chamberlain: 23 yrs old
Phil Hughes: 23 yrs old
Roy Halladay: 32 yrs old
Halladay is looking to sign that last big-money contract before he says, “Hasta la vista, baby.”
He’ll be ancient history while Phil and Joba are still strolling merrily down the path to striking dudes out. I think the Yanks have to take the long view in this instance.
I have to go on record with this in case it happens I doubt it will but I have a feeling. If If the sox get Doc they also get Scutaro in a 8 player trade. Jays agree to let them re-neg his K.
Brandon… I’M AWESOME ! BOSTON 8 NEW YORK 0 = 1st PLACE NYY
July 26th, 2009 at 2:40 am
BJK I know, I’m just adding the depth has kept this ship afloat, but names like combos of Joba+Hughes+Jackson+Montero…TAKE A FLYING LEAP JP.
——————————————————–
Agreed. But Montero, Jackson, and any 2 or 3 pitchers in our system not named Joba or Hughes has my absolute blessing.
Uncle E….That’s a very interesting concept….Scuturo fills the SS needs for Boston…..However who else would Theo have to gift wrap ????
Isn’t Scutaro a free agent after this season? That would make him worth the equivalent of 2 draft picks himself. How would that help make Halladay more obtainable to the Sox? It’s not like taking a big contract like Wells or even Rios.
Pat M
just musing really
but Bucky Bard Lowrie (dl?) to start…
I just think that the trade that is going to be made is not one people have talked about.
Same for the yanks the move they make might surprise
just musing
If it happens at least its on the Lohud record. Better than saying “oh I was thinking that” after the fact
and people saying “Oh really?”
http://www.nypost.com/seven/07.....181475.htm
Phil Hughes q and a
Hmmm. I guess the Yankees just have a terrible farm system and have to buy players.
Right, ESPN? Right? Right?
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/articl.....8;c_id=mlb
PittYankeeFan,
that’s pretty cool
best record in the AL and the most homegrown talent
spin that one NESPN
Nick the butcher is having another great month. No homers and barley above 200. He plays and awful outfield. Why is this man not batting ninth? Why is the butcher even in the line up?
GreenBeret7
July 25th, 2009 at 8:33 pm
Dan
July 25th, 2009 at 8:12 pm
GreenBeret – I agree that is true for the 1 1/3 years. But, if they were able to get 5-6 years out of him with that deal what do you think?
————————————————————
The immediate problem is trading a major league pitcher for a major league pitcher. NYY still won’t fill the spot
————————————————————
very good point.
another thing is if joba keeps pitching like he did in his last 2 games what are we gaining?
i am not saying that joba is as good but he is said to have fixed his mechanics.
i wouldn’t do it.
Kate Hudson?
What, ARod only likes flat chests?
Its not just Boston. Everybody is overvaluing their prospects, including the Yankees.
———————————————————–
the problem with this is hughes & joba are doing great in the al east on a ml club.
prospects???????
if joba keeps pitching like he has the last 2 games i wouldn’t trade him for halladay straight up & as gb mentioned we trade pitcher for pitcher & solve nothing.
Tyler Clippard last night against the Padres –
4IP, 1 hit, 1BB, 0 runs, 7K (got the W)
mitre’s start today will be closely watched by cashman.
if he gets bombed i think we get a pitcher.
i just hope we don’t trade joba or hughes for halladay.
that will still leave us a pitcher or two short.
joba is pitching great now.
i know he is not halladay but he could be.
it is one thing if we have prospects in the minors & trade them but joba has shown he can go head to head with great pitchers like becket in big games & win.
why trade a good to great pitcher for a great pitcher in addition to losing other prospects & lose a cost controlled player while raising payroll substantially and not add to our pitching debth?
I agree with many of the above statements-trading Joba or Hughes for Halladay does not significantly improve this club for the long term as Halladay doesn’t want to sign an extension and will be a FA in 2010.
If however the Yankees were willing to take on Rios’ contract also[ not even sure Toronto willing to deal him] and you could package prospects that don’t include Joba, Hughes and Montero, then I say go for it, even if Halladay becomes a FA after next year.
Attached is Rios contract:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=3329890
Scott Downs has blown the last three games pitched. Watched a replay of his 10th inning meltdown Friday night. He works extremely slow, constantly going to the resin bag and gathering dirt, he tops out at 88-89mph, and currently has a 3.75M contract and is signed thru next year. On top of that control was supposed to be a strength and he walked two batters that inning. His ERA is no longer a stellar 2.0.
Cashman had better acquire a starter regardless of whether Mitre bombs or not………..
I’m off the Halladay thing – there is no way that JP is trading him to an AL East rival. His “offer” to the Yankees was an offer he knew would be refused – way too rich for the Yankees blood. He put it out there “in case” the Yankees got the case of the stupids – probably did the same for the Sox. My original theory was that Cash asked for the opportunity to match or better any other offer…….BUT I don’t think that holds anymore. First off, apparently it’s the Jays doing the offering, not the other teams. We’ve already read what they want from the Yankees – believe me, JP is not coming back to the Yankees and requesting a lesser package. Two, I didn’t realize then that ownership had tied his hands – JP is just not allowed to deal Doc within the division. At this point, I wish he’d just stay put, but I don’t think that’s happening.
Good Q& A……people are going to run with Phil’s comments about him not minding being a closer, but though I think he does enjoy being in the pen, I think he’s just not the kind of kid to complain. He appreciates being in the big leagues and will take it any way he can get it………I believe he still definitely wants to be a starter.
I love that his confidence is a 9 at this point…and I love his aggressiveness, his insistence that he’s not going to go and walk people. I also suspected that he was feeling the rib injury before it was diagnosed ……..
He’s going to have to get his hair cut soon, lol – too bad as I like it.
I so don’t “get” the way the Jays are handling this.
Maybe I’m wrong, but no one asked them to put Halladay on the market. No one said, “Hey, JP, what would it take to drag Halladay away from you.” JP and the Jays said, “We think it’s in the long-term interests of our club to try and get the best deal we can for Roy Halladay, who has recently told us he intends to test the FA market at the end of his contract.”
Then they go out and TELL people what they’ll take as a fair offer.
Seems backwards.
Seems like they should field offers and either take the best one or scuttle the plans to trade altogether.
Seems backwards and arrogant.
Betsy -
I suspect that Hughes simply enjoys being an inpact player at the ML level. Of course, he’s having fun with what he’s doing – he’s been extremely successful and he’s being depended upon.
Why anyone would take the leap that that means he doesn’t want to be a starter escapes me, though. It’s so early in his career to write anything in stone, and it really is a disservice, I think, to set limitations on his abilities (just like with Joba) at this point – and unfair.
No one knows for sure what the future will hold for either one of those guys. It just seems like people are far too invested in the “EIG.”
Doreen, it’s odd – why isn’t JP letting teams come to him? It makes no sense..let the teams come to him, compare offers, try to negotiate a better package with the teams (if he’s not satisfied) and then either do the deal or not.
right on about us needing another starter regardless of how well mitre does.
joba is over 100 innings & we have no debth.
mitre is the 5th starter.
if mitre gets bombed we are down to 4 starters,joba will go to the pen.that leaves us with 3 if mitre gets booted out of the rotation.
the indians wanted one of joba/hughes & the jays asked for both joba & hughes along with 2 other prospects.
i hope cashman told him where to go.
i am at the point where i do not trade joba or hughes.
i would montero,ajax & others but not them.
they are helping us to much now & seem to be settling in not to mention if we trade joba we gain a starter but lose another one & will still need pitching.
joba can be as good as halladay one day & has pitched absolutely great his last 2 games.
we gain very little when comparing halladay to joba’s last 2 performances.
Doreen, they are just trying to manufacture controversy. Phil wants to be a starter, he’s going to be a starter. His comments are just the comments of someone who’s making the best of a situation – it’s just the right attitude to take.
Let the kid do what he wants to do. If he wants to start, let him have that opportunity. If he wants to be in the bullpen, let him do that.
“Then they go out and TELL people what they’ll take as a fair offer.
Seems backwards.”
good morning doreen-
hasn’t JP Ricciardi always been an arrogant know it all sabermetrically inclined guy with no real feel for baseball reality?
that’s always been my impression of him. i think he is what he is so his approach with halladay seems in character. what toronto should do is fire him and get a fresh gm in to clean up the mess Ricciardi created.
Friday:
So what do we think of Joba now? Just like a few bad outings shouldn’t make us think he is done, a few good ones shouldn’t make us think he is the next coming. He also faced a weak hitting team. That being said, his velocity was still up compared to before the All Star Break. He started averaging around 92 in the first inning, but then quickly averaged 94 most of the game, getting up to 96 a few times and 95 many times. That is good, but I would still hope that he would be consistent around 95-96…but better. As I mentioned in my last post I wanted to see more curves and they did throw more and they were very effective. Thrown for strikes and producing outs the curve makes the fastball look better and gives the batter another speed and plane to be worried about.
His control was better as he threw more strikes but 3 walks and a HBP in 7 innings isn’t great.
I questioned sending him out there for the 8th inning especially because I have my own theory about him needing more rest to keep his velocity (I know this is hard check the validity)
Coke did a great job in bailing out Joba (and Girardi) and deserved a huge pat on the back.
Saturday:
Not sure the validity of adding Ransom to the lineup instead of Matsui on the same day you have Molina in for Posada, but this game was mostly lost in the 7th inning. The weak hitting A’s had been doing very little all day. Pettitte’s control was good and his ball had some movement. But right after Texiera and Arod couldn’t get Gardner in from 3rd base with 1 out; Pettitte came out and immediately allowed a ripped double down the line to start the inning off. With a 1 run lead, you have to keep the go ahead run off the bases. After going 3-0 to Garciaparra, Pettitte came back and threw 2 strikes only 2 walk the go ahead run to 1st base. Up came Jack Cust. I could see letting Pettitte go against the lefty. The AB was a rough battle that Cust kept missing some good pitches to hit, but Andy kept throwing strikes (as he needed to). After the 6 pitches to Nomar and after needing 9 pitches to get Cust to fly out to CF on a pitch right down the middle, it was pretty clear to everyone that Andy did a really good job and it was time to turn it over to the bullpen. When Girardi went out to the mound it was time to stand up and give Andy an ovation for a job well done. I have no idea what Girardi was thinking, but after throwing 15 pitches to the last 2 batters alone in the 7th inning; he left Andy in the game with 1st and 2nd and one out??? After allowing a bullet single up the middle to tie the game, Girardi should have realized the mistake he made, but instead let Pettitte allow one more single (a bunt) before turning the game over to Aceves. Aceves came in with the bases loaded and 1 out with the score tied. With no room to put anyone on, Ace went to work and got a popup and things looked good. Then Ace had an 0-2 count on the next batter. The pitch called was a fastball upstairs. The pitch was on the top of the strike zone but their backup catcher was able to bloop a single over SS for a huge single. A couple points… Ace was throwing slowly for him. He didn’t break 90 in his pitches and usually is at 92. This might have been the difference in not being able to get the fastball by him? I also wonder with the bases juiced he wanted to throw more strikes and stay away from a ball in the dirt? I don’t know, but they got a big hit. Ace then allowed another huge hit and clearly was off his game with little pop in his fastball. I can’t blame Girardi for staying with Ace because he has been so good, but in hindsight (usually all my comments are not hindsight but I was watching the game fast) I thought Bruney would have been a good choice because Ace was not throwing hard and Pettitte is not a hard thrower; Bruney would have been a good change of speed. Again, I can’t blame Girardi for that, but after Ace let up a game ending double, Girardi created the mess by clearly leaving Pettitte in for 2 extra batters.
The positive is how tough this team is. After allowing 6 runs in the 7th inning (to be down by 5), the Yankees rallied to have 1st and 2nd with nobody out in the 9th inning down 6-4. Unfortunately Posada hit a hard grounder right at the 2nd base for an easy DP. Then Jeter flew out to end the game!
One other point, I usually don’t pull a Michael Kay, but in the 8th inning, I got out of my seat because I was sure Cano tied the game on the well hit ball to RF. I still am not sure what happened on that swing because I thought it was gone (you too?)
Tough loss, but a poor job by Girardi and Aceves
Good run…let’s start another one.
Betsy -
I agree about Hughes.
About the Yanks and Halladay -
IF they got him, and traded either Hughes or Joba – they are really not helping things all that much. They aren’t ADDING anything, just making replacement at best and subtracting (from the strength of the bullpen) at worst.
Cashman has gone out of his way to avoid expensive “rentals,” which it looks like this would /could be; I don’t see him changing his game plan for this. Plus it’s taken this long to establish some bona fide prospects in the system, why gut it all on one deal – a move that would not guarantee anything, IMO and could be very costly in terms of players, money and re-establishing the farm system in the short and long term.
I’ve thought all along that if the Yankees make a major push to get Halladay they will offer to take Vernon Wells and that albatross of a contract off the Blue Jays hands as well.
I dont think any other team would or could be able to do that because of the amount of money Wells is getting.
By offering the Blue Jays an enormous amount of salary relief, the Yankees might then be able to offer a package of 4-5 of their top prospects (including Jesus Montero and Zach MaCallister), but not have to part with either Hughes or Joba.
If the Blue Jays say no, then the Yankees look elsewhere and go for back end starter that they can slide into the rotation once Joba is ready to transition to the bullpen because of his innings limit – i.e. a Jarrod Washburn type
NJ Steve
We watched the game, we don’t need a recap
I predicted Oakland would sweep. But I guess it’s more likely that they would split the series.
“Seems backwards and arrogant.”
And people wonder why the Jays are having a hard time competing in the AL East. If they were smart they would take the best offer and move on, regardless of where he ends up.
As for Halladay…if the Yankees wanted to get him they could, but it will hurt.
IMO, there are only two untouchables and they are Phil Hughes and Jesus Montero.
1)Phil has a make-up that is off the charts for a 23 year old, as well as major league stuff.
2)Jesus is probably the best minor league hitter since Miguel Cabrera.
I am not saying that the Yankees should make a deal only that if they did I wouldn’t mind it.
If the Yankees had to give up Joba and other prospects, it would hurt, but to get the best pitcher in baseball that is what it will take.
And Dorren they are adding the best pitcher in baseball and subtracting a starter in Joba that will have to be shut down in September for innings limits.
As for what Joba can become…no one knows and for what Halladay is…a proven winner and innings eater.
I’ll take a known for a could be any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
Joke of the Day:
“Jesus is probably the best minor league hitter since Miguel Cabrera”
Q: What’s the deal with the hair?
A: I decided I’m just gonna let it grow out, for as long as they’ll let me. . . . I’ve kinda been on a little bit of a roll lately, so I don’t want to cut it now.
Q: The organization has said it still views you long-term as a starter . . . how do you view you?
A: I view myself as a pitcher (chuckles). It was always my dream to be at this level. . . . A lot of people dream about that, and don’t get the opportunity. So I’m certainly not gonna be here and get picky about my role or anything like that. I’m happy to be here, and I’ll kinda let the organization dictate what my role is in the future
=====================
I was wondering about the hair! Alright, let it grow Youuse.
It’s not that Phil is happy to be in the bullpen, I think it’s more he is just happy for the opportunity to be pitching in the majors. More fun in the majors.
Vader -
I agree Halladay is a great pitcher. I only ask is he really, really worth the risk (financial and otherwise), especially since there is no guarantee he will stay with the Yankees.
Would it not be ironic if they do indeed decide to go all in for Halladay, throw all caution to the winds, and find they are in need of another starting pitcher in the next 3 or 4 years and the best available is Joba Chamberlain?
I know I’m dealing in “what-ifs” but so is everyone else. The thing that holds me back is exactly how much difference Halladay would make to this team? This year and in the longer term? I wish I had a crystal ball.
On the surface, it seems like a deal that shouldn’t even require thought (except that JP is asking for the moon, the stars AND the sun).
It would be hard to argue that it would be a bad deal. I’m just not sure exactly how good. The Yankees could arguably do best by acquiring a lesser starter and perhaps another bp arm, since the team is doing really well anyway.
I’m not a prospect hugger, in that, whatever happens I adjust and move on. But I’d be lying if I didn’t say that as a fan, at this point I am invested in Hughes and Joba. Not invested in Jackson or Montero yet, though, and wouldn’t be hugely upset to lose either or those prospects.
As for what Joba can become…no one knows and for what Halladay is…a proven winner and innings eater.
I’ll take a known for a could be any day of the week and twice on Sunday
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it is still possible it can be a disaster of a trade.
halladay gets hurt it is a huge disaster,replacing joba with halladay costs more & still leaves us short on pitching.
i would not do it.
joba & hughes are not prospects in the minors.they are in the majors helping our club.
1 or 2 more good outings by joba like his last 2 & the only thing we would gain is innings but lose a lot more.
S.A. -
That’s what I think about Hughes – am I in the majors? Yes. YES!!!! I bet he’d sweep the floor of the dugout (ugh!) to stay.
Any selling team will ask for the moon from teams that want to deal but they back down as it gets closer to the deadline.
The same as buying a home or a car. If they really want to sell, they’ll come down in demands or no deal.
randy
Not defending JP, and I’m just speculating. I think the Jays might have to overpay at times to get players to play in Canada.
On another note, this again a guess, it wouldn’t totally suprise me if the RS included Ellsbury in a big trade. Just kinda reading between the lines on some comments I’ve heard.
Also am hearing Buc. projects as more like a #3 starter not a #1.
what happens in 2 years if we don’t win a ws & halladay has a 4.5 era while joba has a 2.5 era.
halladay will be 34,joba 25 but halladay is getting paid 15 million a year,joba making a few million or so.
if joba did not pitch well in his last 2 outings i wouldn’t mind but it shows that he has it & can make adjustments.
only time will tell.there are no wrongs or rights but i personally wouldn’t do it.
joba is a good,young cost controlled player that can be the best pitcher in baseball in time.
players like him are what every team want’s.
bru -
I’m with you.
I don’t think a major move needs to be made. I’m keeping my fingers crossed.
buchholz is 25 yrs old & got hit around his last start.
i think the rs are doing a good job of hiding him for some reason.
he needs major league innings to help this club going forward.
joba’s innings now are going to help him immensely next year.
i just wish hughes was in the rotation because next year he will struggle like joba has this year learning how to pitch.
Exactly Doreen.
So now we know Phil is just got an apartment in Edgewater, NJ
According to Wikipedia, some famous residents of Edgewater, NJ(don’t think this list is too accurate)
Notable current and former residents of Edgewater include:
* Amerie (born 1978), R&B singer.[72]
* Tyson Beckford (born 1970), model.[72]
* Maksim Chmerkovskiy (born 1980), professional dancer on hit TV show Dancing with the Stars.[73]
* Liz Claman, Fox Business News anchor.[74]
* JoJo (born 1990), singer .[75]
* Q-Tip (born 1970), rapper.[72]
* Geraldo Rivera (born 1943), newsman.[76]
* Ryan Allen, opera singer
* John Sterling (born 1948), broadcaster for the New York Yankees since 1989.[77]
* Osi Umenyiora (born 1981), defensive end for the New York Giants.[78]
* Ron Villone (born 1970), pitcher for Washington Nationals.[79]
* Chien-Ming Wang (born 1980), pitcher for the New York Yankees.[80]
I would love to live near Amerie
I agree that Joba and Phil are in the majors and helping.
All I am saying is that if it cost one of the two, Not Both and Joba rather than Phil, to get Roy “Doc” Halladay…I would do it and not worry about what Joba will do in the future.
Now, no one knows what will happen to either guy if that deal went down…Hallday could get hurt, Joba could get hurt…did anyone know Wang was going to go down.
What I do know is that Joba will be shut down at sometime this year due to innings limits and that Hallday won’t.
What makes you think Joba will have a 2.50 ERA in two years?
You can speculate on both sides of the issue. Halladay has been healthier in his career than Joba has.
One guy is a known. The other guy you HOPE has the career of the known player.
Fans LOVE keeping unknown for known. GM’s love acquiring known for unknown. That’s the difference between fans and GM’s.
If it was just Joba for Halladay, the Yankees would do that deal because it makes them a better team for the next 2 years and they would probably re-sign him for 2-3 more years after that.
However, its not that simple because the Jays have a attached a premium for dealing him within the AL East.
That not only complicates things for the Yankees, it does for the Red Sox as well.
I am not trading Joba for Doc unless we are guaranteed the chance to sign Doc to an extension. Losing Joba for a one year rental is stupid. Just stupid.
He’s been pitching well lately, too. His value is probably at its highest (Joba) so if we were to trade him, now would be the time. You know, before he gives us 4 innings and 100 pitches again.
How many veteran players walk away from the Yankees once they get there? You can count them on one hand.
Roy Halladay has waited his entire career to win. If the Yankees ever acquired him, who do you think has the best shot of retaining his services after next year, the team that always pours money into its club to try and win, while also possessing his best friend as a teammate, or another team?
If the Yankees ever did a deal for him, it wouldn’t be a rental situation.
My feeling is that if Doc was dealt to the Yankees…he would be extended.
Also, if history has taught us anything…it is that the Yankees will make a deal to make the team better at the deadline.
how about AROD starts hitting with RISP..
why is Cody still on this taem and playing twice at that,the guy stinks
“BryanHoch Jon Albaladejo is here”
this is a season of streaks for the Yankees, one way or the other
Whats wrong with BG?
“BryanHoch: Jon Albaladejo is here
BryanHoch: Yanks have made a move. Gardner not on roster for todays game. More info to come”
Yeah, its been what, 2 or 3 days since Arod got a hit wtih RISP? Slacker.
Do you even watch the games or is only the previous game the one you focus on.
Given the year he has had so far, you really want to sell he isn’t hitting with RISP?
Halladay can force a trade at the end of this year if he is traded now.
Unless a team renegotiates Doc’s contract at the time the Jays trade him, the acquiring team does not know what it is getting. A shot at one WS is not the same as a shot at two.
That unknown hugely impacts the amount and quality of players the acquiring team will give the Jays for Doc.
If Doc’s contract is renegotiated, then his next two years will not be close to the hugely attractive deal they are now. That will also affect the amount and quality of players the acquiring team will give the Jays for Doc.
With all the unknowns, the Yanks aren’t likely to be the team that gambles on Halladay, especially since as an AL East team they will need to pay a big premium to land him.
That’s been obvious to me for three weeks. I can’t believe people are still nursing this fantasy.
That rule has been changed. He can’t force a trade after the year. That was a loophole in the CBA that both sides agreed to change either in 2008 or 2007, I forget which year.
SJ, I think you are wrong on that – can you give me a link?
SJ44 July 26th, 2009 at 10:24 am
Yeah, its been what, 2 or 3 days since Arod got a hit wtih RISP? Slacker.
Do you even watch the games or is only the previous game the one you focus on.
Given the year he has had so far, you really want to sell he isn’t hitting with RISP?
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I know one I’ve watch more games than you have
I don’t have a link. I heard earlier in the year that the option was changed. Since all of this Halladay talk started, nobody has mentioned him being able to request a trade after the year so, I am assuming that the option is no longer available to him.
If it was, nobody would be giving up anything of value for him.
I understand that JP doesn’t want to be the agent of his own destruction by trading a 32 year old difference-maker (with a minimum of three to four remaining years of dominance) within the division. But who is he kidding? Will the Jays really be a competitive team again within four years? When JP says in effect: “Doc is worth less outside the AL East than he is within the AL East,” I have to wonder: Why not make the best deal for your team?
Players get injured. Players get sick, get into trouble, go into funks due to personal issues. Did anybody really expect Wang to fall apart? He had an injury history but a career ending injury can happen at anytime. Knoblauch is an extreme example but it happens. Thus, Doc could get injured, CC or AJ could get injured, Joba could flame out or remain inconsistent. Same in Boston with their starting rotation. Then there are players that can’t cope with the scrutiny of a new city. The NY media is tough, but Boston’s media and fans are tough, intrusive and bitter. Ed Whitson anyone? Can Doc really get into a NY or Boston state of mind? Signing his last contract he took less money just to stay with Toronto.
Is JP really doing the right thing by the Jays by imposing the premium? I don’t see it. He’s banking on too many thing going right for the other teams. In some ways, JP has made the decision whether to go after Doc much easier for Cash and Theo to make. Just say “No.”
No, you haven’t if you think he hasn’t been clutch this year.
More nonsensical drivel from you. Not exactly breaking news.
SJ44-
Although the rule was changed in 2007, I believe that if a player signed a multi-year contract before the end of 2006 he can demand a trade if traded during the contract. I believe that applies to Halladay.
Arod is really tearing it up…4 RBI’S in his last 10 games & there are guys on base in front of him all the time
Great story about Jim Rice. My memory of him is as a great hitter and since I was never a Sox fan I wasn’t tuned into his so-called “personality” issues.
After seeing this story, however, Rice goes on my “who would you like to have in a foxhole with you” list. Baseball’s a game and not always the best measure of a man.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=4353486
Murph,
I believe ownership has put that premium on trading him within the division and JP is falling on the sword for them.
Its foolish and it will not land them the best package for Doc.
Let’s assume for the moment the last thing they want to do is trade him within the division. Why would you announce that strategy to the Yankees and Red Sox? That makes no sense.
Let EVERYBODY put their best bids on the table for guy. JP then goes to ownership and says, “Here are the offers, pick the one you want”. That takes you off the hook, and puts it on the ownership to decide where he lands.
It also allows the package you get in return to be greater.
The Phillies finally realized they are bidding against themselves in this and drew a line in the sand with their limit of what they will surrender in return.
If the Jays can’t engage anyone else seriously on this, they put themselves behind the 8 ball in their attempt to deal him.
If he is a Jay on August 1, they lose a ton of leverage and will get even less in return for him in the winter.
If they trade him for lesser prospects, they get killed.
They boxed themselves into a corner by their refusal to seriously consider offers from the Yankees or Red Sox.
A-Rod is having a definitional MVP season; no one has meant more to his team so far this year than Al. The Yanks were stumbling around until he returned. Now? It speaks for itself.
RISP problems? You’ve got to be kidding me.
Good God, you are whining about Arod over one week’s worth of games? They have the best record in baseball since he has been back and his close and late numbers are off the charts this year.
Its amazing how you top yourself each day with nonsense. I have to tip my cap to you. That’s very hard to do.
Even folks who HATE Arod concede he’s been clutch this year.
Nice to see the loony contingent still has one, loyal Arod hater to whine about him this year.
IT’s all about AROD,(The Cheater)
SJ, check the new thread. I gave a link backing up my belief that Halladay could demand a trade.
SJ:
“They boxed themselves into a corner by their refusal to seriously consider offers from the Yankees or Red Sox.”
Agreed. They are artificially and unreasonably reducing their chief asset’s value. Everything would have to go right on so many assumptions for the AL East embargo to be justified. Were it a public company it’s almost breach of fiduciary duty stuff.
What a brilliant comeback joeman.
When your IQ reaches double digits, then we can engage in baseball talk.
Until then, continue speweing gibberish that makes you the laughingstock of the blog.
OK, lets talk about whether or not Halladay will get traded, my view I’m giving up Joba,Montero & AJ for him & try to get Rios as part of the package
Last year during the Homerun Derby I watched Mo play long toss with his boys during batting practice. MO’s eldest Son had some power in his arm. He has to be in his younger teen’s. The Yankees should sign him asap. With a Dad like MO teaching his own a unique cutter the sky’s the limit. Would hate to see MO’s Kids anything but a Yankee.