Pitching matchups for the Rays series

Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Jul 27, 2009 Print This Post | Email This Post

Tonight: RHP A.J. Burnett (9-4, 3.74) vs. RHP James Shields (6-6, 3.70), 7:10, YES

Tuesday: LHP CC Sabathia (10-6, 3.67) vs. LHP Scott Kazmir (4-6, 6.69). 7:10, MY9

Wednesday: RHP Joba Chamberlain (6-2, 3.86) vs. RHP Matt Garza (7-7, 3.68), 7:10, YES/ESPN

238 Responses to “Pitching matchups for the Rays series”

teddy July 27th, 2009 at 9:05 am
our best vs their best

6/1/2

hopefully nyy can ury tb, though thats not realistic or not going to be easy
NO HYPE July 27th, 2009 at 9:08 am
I still can’t believe Kazmir’s terrible season thus far. Yanks should make a push to trade Hughes+Prospect for Kazmir.

Now that I stopped dreaming, I see the Yankees pushing very hard for a sweep with anything less than 2 wins being a disaster.
UNCYankee July 27th, 2009 at 9:10 am
This may be a little off topic but it is a response to Pete’s “pony league home run” description of Jeter’s home run on Saturday. Sure the new stadium is playing smaller than the old one, but I don’t think it is smaller than the original pre-renovation stadium. There is a picture of the 1951 World Series looking out toward right field and at the pole it says “296 ft.” and in straight away RF it says “344? ft. I am pretty sure that RF in the original stadium was smaller than the current one. People have been getting “cheapie” homers in the Stadium for years….why continue to beat that drum. I think I speak for many when I say to Pete, and all the media, to let this story go.
CountryClub July 27th, 2009 at 9:12 am
Kazmir has always had great stuff. But he’s also always struggled to get through 6 innings. At this point in his career it’s probably who he is. He’s old enough to hace corrected that problem by now.
Bronx Jeers July 27th, 2009 at 9:15 am
“I still can’t believe Kazmir’s terrible season thus far. Yanks should make a push to trade Hughes+Prospect for Kazmir.

Now that I stopped dreaming, I see the Yankees pushing very hard for a sweep with anything less than 2 wins being a disaster.”

Nominee # 1. !
pat July 27th, 2009 at 9:17 am
Happy Birthday Alex.

May your 34th year be your best one yet.
Mark in Tampa July 27th, 2009 at 9:17 am
“Yanks should make a push to trade Hughes+Prospect for Kazmir.”

Hughes is better than Kazmir right now. Kazmir is struggling because he is a two pitch pitcher who has trouble commanding his slider. Thus, he throws a ton of pitches to get out of every inning and is done by the 5th, mostly. Also, being only a 2 pitch guy, and not going deep in games, his future could be in the pen. Hughes has been great in the pen, but his future is definitely in the rotation.

Kazmir’s elbow injury last year has made him fearful of really snapping his slider, and has led to numerous command and mechanical issues. At least that is the word around the Rays. I am sure the Rays wish they had traded Kazmir instead of Jackson at this point.
Ham Fighters July 27th, 2009 at 9:21 am
how do u let the story go when u may have the most homer-happy stadium in baseball history? also, while u were looking at the distances to RF and LF in the old ballpark, did u happen to glance at the CF and LCF distances?

there is a difference between a park that gives up some cheap homers in the corners and the easiest park in the majors to hit homers in.
Sewage man July 27th, 2009 at 9:24 am
Should be an interesting series. The Yanks are playing great, but the Rays are a tough time and have played the Yankees very, very well.

Do you think Girardi should have Molina catch to stop the Rays’ running game, or shoud we go with Posada’s bat?
Sewage man July 27th, 2009 at 9:25 am
I meant tough team, not tough time (?!?!?!?!)
Joe July 27th, 2009 at 9:26 am
Combined 25-12 with a 3.7ish era for the three starters this series. I would expect two of three.
Sewage man July 27th, 2009 at 9:26 am
No, we should NOT trade Hughs for ANYBODY, certainly not for Kazmir.
Wait till they come to OUR house AGAIN July 27th, 2009 at 9:27 am
I really could care less about the HR thing in the park. Who cares?
NO HYPE July 27th, 2009 at 9:28 am
Well if Kazmir is indeed a big injury risk, then its obvious to avoid him and its still good news for the Yanks lol

This has been the 1st year though where he hasn’t been a dominate pitcher in the AL so things are more than likely to turn around next season.

I see Molina starting with Burnett and Jorge going with CC and Chamberlain since Burnett has the weakest pickoff out of the three.
Mark in Tampa July 27th, 2009 at 9:29 am
2009 Yankees-52 Home games, 91 HRs hit, 70 given up

On the Road-46 games, 53 Hrs hit, 49 given up.

It does seem, however, that the ball has not been flying out as easily now as it was early in the season, so maybe he park is starting to even out; even though there doesn’t seem to be any real reason for that. As far as the cheap HRs to right, pitchers have been shaking their heads about those RF Yankee stadium home runs for 80 years.
NO HYPE July 27th, 2009 at 9:29 am
“No, we should NOT trade Hughs for ANYBODY, certainly not for Kazmir.”

There are a ton of players I would trade Hughes for…
UNCYankee July 27th, 2009 at 9:32 am
Ham Fighter

No one says that the homers are cheap anywhere in the new stadium except in RF….and that is exactly where they were “cheap” in the old days….same deal.

Everyone knows the fences were very long in the old Yankee Stadium up the middle, however, I’ll bet that very few were hit over the fence between deep LC and deep RC….most likely the inside the park homeruns were higher back then.

I just get tired of hearing these media guys talk about the same sad story over and over again.
Ham Fighters July 27th, 2009 at 9:32 am
i care about the homers. and i think u will care too about the time mickey mantle becomes #7 on the yankees all time homer list.
86w183 July 27th, 2009 at 9:33 am
Jorge will start two of the three games.

Kazmir’s biggest problem is that he won’t throw strikes and that leads to very high pitch counts. His typical outing is five inings, four runs, 102 pitches… below mediocre.

Think they’ll draw 100,000 for the three games?
murphydog July 27th, 2009 at 9:36 am
The Yankees and their opponents both play in the same stadium with equal opportunity to hit “cheapie” home runs. Hitting the most home runs in your own park over a season wins you nothing. This is a very contrived controversy.

Kazmir was the anchor of their rotation once. No longer. Bad shoulder, bad elbow, inefficient, hittable. Shields and Garza are both tougher. Hughes and a prospect for Kazmir? Time to put down the crack pipe.
Ham Fighters July 27th, 2009 at 9:36 am
we’re talking about right field all the way from the line through the power alley and into RC field, that is a MUCH bigger sweet-spot to hit into than the old stadium where the fence curled deeply out into right center.

we dont have to argue this, though, just look at this year’s #’s vs. the last 5 in the refurbished ‘old stadium’. So far, homers are much cheaper here, there is no argument.
UNCYankee July 27th, 2009 at 9:37 am
It will be a looooong time before Mantle becomes #7 on the Yankees all time HR list….if I am correct, he now sits at #2, unless you count Arod who hit at least half of his for other teams.
Jeter's Edge July 27th, 2009 at 9:37 am
SWEEP!!!!!!!!!!
UNCYankee July 27th, 2009 at 9:39 am
I was comparing the new RF to the original RF in the pre-renovated stadium….296 at the foul pole and 344 to straigt away RF….obviously the last RF (post 1973) was a little longer than the current.

How many do you think the Babe and Mickey would have lost in the post 1973 stadium??
Carlos July 27th, 2009 at 9:41 am
Toronto is really high if they think Cash would part with Hughes, Joba, Jackson, etc. for Halladay.

The Rays always play us tough, esp. at home.

Bruney surpised me yesterday…Damon is saying this team is a redux of the ’04 Sox, let’s see how we do on this road trip and the upcoming series with Boston.
Bill July 27th, 2009 at 9:41 am
yanks need to keep their top young talent as its so difficult to acquire. hey toronto – we’ll give you melky and 3 top prospects for halladay and vernon wells & his big contract.
murphydog July 27th, 2009 at 9:42 am
“So far, homers are much cheaper here, there is no argument.”

OK, literally you are correct: it seems easier to hit home runs in this stadium at the present time (we’ll have to see if that continues to be true after the old stadium is gone). But so what? Both teams have the same opportunity to hit a cheap HR while in Yankee Stadium. It’s not an unfair advantage to anyone.

If they had built a stadium that made it harder to hit HRs, people would complain about that too. (It’s too hard to hit a HR now, they ruined the stadium).
Rad July 27th, 2009 at 9:43 am
Hughes for Kazmir? No way. Halladay is my favorite pitcher in the game and i’d be reluctant to part with Hughes even for him. I think Hughes has earned his spot to stay with the team. He has great stuff, the right attitude, and the make up to be a successful pitcher. Lets at least give the guy another season.
Erica - always OPPC July 27th, 2009 at 9:44 am
UNCYankee
July 27th, 2009 at 9:39 am
I was comparing the new RF to the original RF in the pre-renovated stadium….296 at the foul pole and 344 to straigt away RF….obviously the last RF (post 1973) was a little longer than the current.

How many do you think the Babe and Mickey would have lost in the post 1973 stadium??

****

You are about 35 years too late in this argument
Mike RI July 27th, 2009 at 9:45 am
Time to put some space between us and the rays ! . Lets get the first one under our belt !
Wait till they come to OUR house AGAIN July 27th, 2009 at 9:47 am
Hughes for Kazmir is ridiculous. I can’t believe we’re discussing it.
Irish Johnny July 27th, 2009 at 9:48 am
I like Home runs.

How come people only complain when HRs are high? I haven’t heard a single writer complain about Citifield’s lack of HRs.
Wait till they come to OUR house AGAIN July 27th, 2009 at 9:48 am
“It does seem, however, that the ball has not been flying out as easily now as it was early in the season, so maybe he park is starting to even out; even though there doesn’t seem to be any real reason for that.”

I’m thinking it’s a coincidence. My guess is by next year the “issue (which in my mind isn’t even an issue) will go away.
Wait till they come to OUR house AGAIN July 27th, 2009 at 9:49 am
“I like Home runs.”

“How come people only complain when HRs are high? I haven’t heard a single writer complain about Citifield’s lack of HRs.”

I agree.
UNCYankee July 27th, 2009 at 9:49 am
Another thing about the media facination with bashing the Yankees and their new stadium and the number of empty seats…

I made my first trip to the new park this weekend. It was a hot day on Saturday and I noticed that behind the seats in all of the concourses people were standin 5 to 6 deep watching the game from the shade. No wonder some seats look empty. This is something that was not possible in the old park…people just had to sit out and suffer in the sun. (Of course, being from hot and steamy NC, I didn’t find it too uncomfotable and stayed in my RF seat until the last out.)

BTW, I loved the new stadium, it is a wonderful place to watch a game (other than the $9 beers.)
Erica - always OPPC July 27th, 2009 at 9:51 am
Funny, but the Mets fans certainly are complaining about the lack of Citifield HRs

(As you all may recall the Yankees didn’t seem to have much of a problem hitting them there either)
RDM July 27th, 2009 at 9:51 am
Time for some predicitions…..1-2 vs Rays…2-2 vs White Sox….1-1 vs Jays….road trip 4-5
Wait till they come to OUR house AGAIN July 27th, 2009 at 9:51 am
The reason there is any difference has nothing to do with a mythical jet stream caused by the old stadium. Some nights the wind blows inward.

It’s because RF and LF are slanted instead of curving, making certain parts of the park shorter.
Brandon W July 27th, 2009 at 9:51 am
The problem with HRs being easy to hit in the stadium is more of a mental problem.

Some pitchers give up a cheap long ball and then start to nibble too much. Pettitte and Joba both pitched pretty poorly at home for quite a stretch, which many people attribute to this. While it may affect some visiting pitchers for a game, it’s more harmful when at least 2 of your starters are affected by it for long stretches.

It also affects the batters. You see some batters who hit in YS every day (and this was true at the old park, too), especially lefties, start to hit the ball to right too much. They go for a HR instead of a base hit and end up popping out or otherwise being ineffective.

While the mental effects of the park affect everybody, they have the potential to be much more harmful to a team playing there every day than to a team that plays there a handful of games per year.
Rad July 27th, 2009 at 9:52 am
As much as i like the Gardner/Melky combo, and im not crazy about him, but it seems no one mentions that Vernon Wells is actually a good fit for our team. Gold glove caliber center field and though he’s not swinging that bat so well he is adequate with a high upside. Though i couldnt imagine anyone (even the yanks) taking on that contract, even though 26 Mil is coming off the books for Damon and Matsui. Alex Rios maybe? Though i dont like him much either…still might fit well.
Wait till they come to OUR house AGAIN July 27th, 2009 at 9:53 am
“While the mental effects of the park affect everybody, they have the potential to be much more harmful to a team playing there every day than to a team that plays there a handful of games per year.”

I disagree. Our offense is perfect for this park, which gives us an advantage that IMO balances it out.
Ham Fighters July 27th, 2009 at 9:53 am
i watched alot of games in the pre-renovated park. there were more triples, the corners were rounder the fences were only waist-high in RF and LF in front of the stands. (into the 50′s, the ppl in field level seats walked out on the field to exit the stadium) it was more conducive to triples, but the yankees rarely had triples type hitters. the short porch in front of the RF seats was short but not much shorter than the post renovation stadium. it was a good park to hit down the lines, but forget from RC all the way around to the LF grandstand.

for those of you who never had the pleasure of being in the pre-renovated park, you really missed something, it really was a cathedral, massive and impressive with the roof framed by the frieze and those humoungous light towers. an amazing sight!
Patrick the Prospect Hugger July 27th, 2009 at 9:53 am
“other than the $9 beers”

That’s for the bottles. If you get a cup it’s $10

Beer prices are crazy but I like the new stadium. There are a few things that should be changed (price of legends seats, right field wall, the arrangment of info on the main video board) but overall it’s a nice place.
Erica - always OPPC July 27th, 2009 at 9:56 am
You are wasting your time talking about new Yankee Stadium home runs. If there ever is anything done about it, it will not be for at least two seasons. Here is why:

1) Yankee brass believes knocking down the old stadium is going to change the wind patterns in the new stadium. Old Stadium will not be removed until all parts are removed. The soonest this will happen is this offseason, maybe next season

2) The Yankees will play at least one or two full seasons with the old stadium gone to get a proper sample size of the home runs patterns with the old stadium gone

3) Even if the HR rate remains alarmingly high, Yankee brass will be extremely hesitant to move any walls back or do anything that removes seat revenue

So IF anything is done about homeruns we are talking the 2012 season soonest
Ham Fighters July 27th, 2009 at 9:57 am
shea was always a pitchers park and citi will be too, and remember, fixing the fences when they are too far is easy. they did it at comerica.
Hokiehill July 27th, 2009 at 9:58 am
Well that was a fun homestand! I’m hoping we can continue to win series on the road trip but I would be ok with winning the road trip “series” and coming home having gone 5-4. Not gonna make me jump for joy, but I could live with it. What I’m really hoping is the Yankees stay hot and roll through the Boston series (especially since I’ll be there for the Thursday game of that series for my first trip to the new YS!)
UNCYankee July 27th, 2009 at 9:59 am
The only thing about the new stadium that I thought could have been done to make it look a little better would be to have painted all of the galvanized steel railing and fencing either white or dark blue. The plain steel color just looked a little unfinished.
Wait till they come to OUR house AGAIN July 27th, 2009 at 9:59 am
Argh, that Boston series will be a nailbiter.
Betsy July 27th, 2009 at 9:59 am
No one is really discussing Hughes being traded for Kazmire – someone brought up some crazy proposal and everyone is shooting it down, lol.

I hope when I get back from dinner tonight that I come back to a nice game thread full of happy Yankee fans because AJ pitched well and we won….. He’s been a very reliable innings eater and he’s pitched very well over his last ten or so starts. Shields will be tough, so I expect this will be a close game. It’s a shame that Gardner is out – his speed could be a real weapon here – but oh well, we’ll have to make due. The Yanks have always been good on the road,so…..
Wait till they come to OUR house AGAIN July 27th, 2009 at 10:01 am
I’m shocked at the bad records of all the Rays starters considering how good the Rays are.
Rad July 27th, 2009 at 10:01 am
The beers were never cheap at the “old” Stadium anyway. Unless you’re there to drink (a lot) its actually not THAT much more.
Ham Fighters July 27th, 2009 at 10:02 am
i see erica read a press release.

sure the yankees are saying they wont do anything for 3 or 4 years….believe me if the fans start calling for it, or if it starts to become a joke, they will do something. and until then, they will stick with this fantasy that taking down the old park is going to change things…
UNCYankee July 27th, 2009 at 10:04 am
I know. The beers were $8.50 at the old one. (I like Baltimore’s prices alot better, $6.50.)

The way I look at it…I come to NY once per year to a game and I am not going to penny pinch while there. I just think that $9 for a beer is a little much.
Tom B July 27th, 2009 at 10:04 am
@hamfighters

keep fighting the good fight, you’ll change the world through blog comments.
Erica - always OPPC July 27th, 2009 at 10:10 am
Ham Fighters
July 27th, 2009 at 10:02 am
i see erica read a press release.

***

Haha. I know I was embracing my inner Brian Cashman, there but I was just trying to point out that if a change is needed. There is no way the Yankees will be so quick to make one. If ever
JRB July 27th, 2009 at 10:10 am
Down here in Philly beers are about 6.50 but I was shocked to see them selling becks for 11 when I was in yankees stadium this past wednesday. I didn’t know I’d have to take out a second mortgage on my house just to buy a beer!
Wait till they come to OUR house AGAIN July 27th, 2009 at 10:11 am
Weird vote on Yesnetwork. Should Bud Selig lift Pete Rose’s lifetime ban on baseball?
Patrick the Prospect Hugger July 27th, 2009 at 10:12 am
Maybe a bit optimistic but here’s what I’m looking for on this coming road trip.

2-1 vs Tampa
3-1 vs Chicago
1-1 vs Toronto

Win or split every series, that’s the goal. I think 2 out of 3 is very doable vs Tampa, 3 out of 4 vs Chicago is tough so I could see a split there. I could also see NY winning 2 of 2 vs Toronto but they are a pretty tough team.

6-3 that’s what I’m looking for but it will be tough.
Wait till they come to OUR house AGAIN July 27th, 2009 at 10:13 am
2-1 vs. Tampa

2-2 vs. Chicago

2-0 vs. Toronto

6-3 overall.
Brandon... I'M AWESOME ! BOSTON 8 NEW YORK 0 = 1st PLACE NYY July 27th, 2009 at 10:13 am
“Hughes for Kazmir is ridiculous.”

Tampa would jump at that LOL, I’d kick the GMs butt who makes that move.
Hokiehill July 27th, 2009 at 10:15 am
“I know. The beers were $8.50 at the old one. (I like Baltimore’s prices alot better, $6.50.)

The way I look at it…I come to NY once per year to a game and I am not going to penny pinch while there. I just think that $9 for a beer is a little much”

I’ll be shelled for this, but you don’t HAVE to drink beer at a baseball game…I agree it’s nice, but not mandatory.
BD July 27th, 2009 at 10:15 am
“Kazmir’s biggest problem is that he won’t throw strikes and that leads to very high pitch counts. His typical outing is five inings, four runs, 102 pitches… below mediocre.”

Not sure that’s it. If you look at SK’s total pitches thrown and total batters faced, he’s not throwing any more pitches PER BATTER this year than he has in previous years (slightly fewer pitches, actually). The reason he’s throwing somewhat more pitches per inning this year is that the batters are reaching base, so consequently SK is facing more batters per inning.

Looking at SK’s numbers, the thing that jumps out is that hitters are making contact 71% percent of the time swinging at pitches OUTSIDE the strike zone. For most of his career, that percentage has been in the forties. Clearly, it’s going to be hard to get hitters out when they are able to either foul off or put into play 71% of pitches thrown outside the zone (while also making contact on 86% of pitches thrown IN the strike zone).
Hokiehill July 27th, 2009 at 10:18 am
“Should Bud Selig lift Pete Rose’s lifetime ban on baseball?”

Quick question, if that happens, does Rose end up somewhere as a coach/manager? Or will Selig make it for the Hall only…can he even do that?
sevrox July 27th, 2009 at 10:20 am
Yank starters for the series : 25 – 12

Rays starters for the series: 16 – 14

’nuff said.
evan July 27th, 2009 at 10:20 am
jesus montero soooooo goood. hit another homer yesterday.
Wait till they come to OUR house AGAIN July 27th, 2009 at 10:21 am
I say yes. What Pete Rose did is different from steroids. He never bet against his team and he never betscore spreads, so he really didn’t affect the game any differently anyway. He played hard and to win every game.
trisha - OPPC lifetime member July 27th, 2009 at 10:23 am
http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com...../chats.jsp
Lara08 July 27th, 2009 at 10:26 am
Betting isn’t steroids but the talking heads who say Pete should get in give up their “sanctity of the game” gatekeeper card.
Brandon... I'M AWESOME ! BOSTON 8 NEW YORK 0 = 1st PLACE NYY July 27th, 2009 at 10:26 am
“As I’m sure you’re very aware, Austin Jackson did not play for the Scranton/Wilkes-Barre Yankees last night. It’s impossible not to notice that this rare day off came on the same day Brett Gardner went on the disabled list. I sent AJ a text message last night to ask if anything is going on — specifically, if he’s going to New York to take Gardner’s spot — but I never got a response, which didn’t surprise me. Either he’s going up, in which case the Yankees probably told him not to tell anyone about the move, or he’s not going up, in which case there’s nothing to say and he probably hasn’t been told one way or the other.

But it was worth a shot.”

Looks like Ajax is on his way.

http://community.thetimes-trib.....ement.aspx
Hokiehill July 27th, 2009 at 10:28 am
the “sanctity of the game” is a farce anyway…this game is and has been as dirty as every professional sport through out its history. anytime you have competition on a large scale, you will have people trying to gain any advantage they can, sometimes within the rules, sometimes not. It doesn’t make baseball any less great or entertaining, it just is what it is…
Wait till they come to OUR house AGAIN July 27th, 2009 at 10:29 am
Sanctity of the game is a load of crap. And everybody knows it.
Lara08 July 27th, 2009 at 10:29 am
Yes it is a farce Hokie but it doesn’t keep people from whining about it.
Bill July 27th, 2009 at 10:32 am
SI.COM reporting that red sux chairman said a big deal is coming. they really have become mouthy over the past few years, part of their strategy i guess, whether its inane tweeter comments by the candy man oh henry or external hints like this. We need to kick their asses on and off the field with smart management & using the Steins cash to sign international players for big bucks. Dont back down !
Hokiehill July 27th, 2009 at 10:32 am
“Yes it is a farce Hokie but it doesn’t keep people from whining about it.”

Agreed…
Wait till they come to OUR house AGAIN July 27th, 2009 at 10:34 am
The Red Sox really are becoming the Yankees. It’s kind of creepy how much they’ve copied us. And they STILL don’t have a dynasty that compared to ANY of ours.
Patrick the Prospect Hugger July 27th, 2009 at 10:34 am
I hope so Brandon but I don’t think the Yankees will do it.

I know in the past you’ve been one that is protective of Yankee prospects and conservative on when they should be brought up. (I seem to remember “NO JACKSON UNTIL SEPT” or something like that)

What do you think of possibly calling Jackson up now, considering he will have an opportunity to play a decent amount?
Hokiehill July 27th, 2009 at 10:34 am
“SI.COM reporting that red sux chairman said a big deal is coming.”

Just as is the case with Cashman when he says “we probably won’t do anything” immediately for a trade…I’ll believe anything a GM/chairman/whoever says when it does or doesn’t happen.
Wait till they come to OUR house AGAIN July 27th, 2009 at 10:34 am
Only thing the Yankees copied is a fanclub, and ours donates money to charity.
Hokiehill July 27th, 2009 at 10:35 am
immediately for = immediately before…
Ham Fighters July 27th, 2009 at 10:35 am
im not trying to change anything, this started when ppl were saying pete should drop the whole subject of the homer count at the stadium. if ppl cant handle the news about it, they should just not read it, but dont tell a reporter not to report on something that affects the way the game is played at the yankees home stadium.
Mark in Tampa July 27th, 2009 at 10:37 am
“SI.COM reporting that red sux chairman said a big deal is coming.”

There was talk last night about Adrian Gonzalez to Boston. All that says to me is that Lowell is about done. Boston will be better than they have been this year if they pull it off, but not as good as if Lowell is healthy. IMO, healthy Lowell is better than Youkilis at third; and Youkilis/Gonz are about a wash at first, at least considering that they play in Fenway and a RH batter should be more successful there.
Patrick the Prospect Hugger July 27th, 2009 at 10:41 am
I don’t understand why the Sox would trade for LaRoche then go out and get Gonzalez.

How many corner infielders and outfielders do they need?

If they get Gonzalez he is their 1B for many years. That means Youkilis is their permanent 3B. LaRoche and Lowell off the bench? They wouldn’t get any playing time.
Wait till they come to OUR house AGAIN July 27th, 2009 at 10:42 am
Patrick-My guess is Lowell is traded.
Cash is King July 27th, 2009 at 10:43 am
Boston wants to make a big deal, but that doesn’t mean they’ll get a big deal done.

Here is the excerpt from SI.com

“Red Sox chairman Tom Werner, in town for Jim Rice’s induction, said yesterday that general manager Theo Epstein is “burning the midnight oil” trying to make an impact deal before Friday’s trade deadline. It appears the Sox are still in the hunt for Blue Jays ace Roy Halladay and Indians catcher-first baseman Victor Martinez.”
MG July 27th, 2009 at 10:46 am
the Yankees are a better team this year than the Rays, that’s the bottom line. I don’t know why so many of you are worried about them. Just look at the pitching matchups in this series-the Yankees best is much, much better than the Rays best with a stronger bullpen to boot. Who would you rather have closing a game, Mo or JP Howell? Give me a break…
86w183 July 27th, 2009 at 10:46 am
I’ll agree with banning all known and suspected steroid users when the folks in Cooperstown agree to oust all the pill poppers, racists, scuffers, spitballers, corkers, drunks and philanderers. Then we’ll have a nice, pure Hall. There may not be any inductees, but so what?

Some of you need to educate yourselves about steroids before you comment. Banning amphetemines has had more of an impact on the game than steroid testing. It’s not a coincidence that just about every player in the 34+ age group is getting a day off every couple of weeks and sometimes even more often.
CT23 July 27th, 2009 at 10:47 am
kay just said ajax isnt an option and maybe not an option next year
MGUMPHER July 27th, 2009 at 10:48 am
If the Red Sox are looking to trade Lowell wouldn’t the other GM’s know that he is used up? They are stuck, for better or worse, with Lowell.
Wait till they come to OUR house AGAIN July 27th, 2009 at 10:49 am
I’ll say this: I heard the stories of Mantle and others using greenies. But when someone uses steroids so flgrantly to produce artificial performance, like over 70 HR’s in a single season, I have no respect for them and they shouldn’t be in the HOF.
MG July 27th, 2009 at 10:49 am
the Sox wanting to make a ‘big deal’ is just another sign that they know their current team isn’t going to win anything. Big trades at the deadline don’t always work anyway.

All this talk about Smoltz being the key to the Sox 2nd half was such bs it was ridiculous. I’ve said all season to friends (2 of whom are Sox fans and agreed with me) the same thing, ‘he’s 42 years old coming off major shoulder surgery, how can he be counted on until he actually pitches well for a few games in a row?’ I guess I was right…
Andrew July 27th, 2009 at 10:49 am
MG, JP Howell has done a really good job for the Rays as closer this year. I agree that Mo’s track record combined with his performance this year inspires a lot more confidence in the 9th inning than Howell’s, but don’t sell his contribution short for Tampa. He has pretty much emerged from a cloudy mess of relievers to be their go-to stopper out of the pen.

My confidence lies in the fact that Tampa’s other relievers are not too impressive. Yes I understand that they have a great bullpen ERA and have done well statistically/as a whole so far this year, but I like the Yankees’ chances of scoring runs, if necessary, off the middle/set up relievers in Tampa’s pen.
Jeff NJ by the sea shore July 27th, 2009 at 10:51 am
Based on these matchups, I like the Yankees to sweep. Mark it down.
m July 27th, 2009 at 10:51 am
Wait,

You’ll apply the same standards to A-rod, right?
Ham Fighters July 27th, 2009 at 10:51 am
they’re not trading lowell, they’re probably trading laroche. speculation was rampant when they picked him up that it was just the first step in a bigger move. nobody’s taking lowell and youk isnt going anywhere.
Wait till they come to OUR house AGAIN July 27th, 2009 at 10:51 am
I’m not scared of anybody in the Rays pen, and would not be scared of Howell if it becomes necessary to face him trailing or tied.
Cash is King July 27th, 2009 at 10:52 am
“kay just said ajax isnt an option and maybe not an option next year”

If he’s not an option next year then maybe he’s not as good as we think he is.
Brandon... I'M AWESOME ! BOSTON 8 NEW YORK 0 = 1st PLACE NYY July 27th, 2009 at 10:53 am
“SI.COM reporting that red sux chairman said a big deal is coming.”

Please do it. I’d love to see Bard, Bucholz, Marson..etc out of BOS.
Ham Fighters July 27th, 2009 at 10:53 am
could it be the jays are getting halladay and taking rolen’s contract?
Wait till they come to OUR house AGAIN July 27th, 2009 at 10:53 am
m-Of course. If A-Rod hits 62+ HR’s in a single season and then keeps it up for several years, I’d rather he be kept out of the HOF.

Right now he’s having, considering what’s happened to his hip, an excellent season, and one where I doubt roids’ are involved.
Ham Fighters July 27th, 2009 at 10:53 am
sorry, the socks
BD July 27th, 2009 at 10:54 am
Re “sanctity of the game,” Rose has been banned from baseball for about 20 years. Does the sanctity of the game require that he be banned forever? If so, why doesn’t the sanctity of the game require that any player who ever touched steroids be banned forever? Maybe George Brett should have been banned forever for using too much pine tar.

Believing in the “SOTG” doesn’t imply a belief that every player who has ever broken any rule needs to be banned from the game forever. In Rose’s case, MLB made a pretty strong statement that it wouldn’t tolerate gambling. Fine. We get it. This was about one guy with a bad gambling habit. It wasn’t exactly a conspiracy to throw WS games. If members of the 1919 Chisox — who actually DID conspire to throw WS games — deserved lifetime bans from baseball, then I’d say a 20-year ban for betting a few bucks a night on the Reds (along with all sorts of other sports wagering on Rose’s part) is more than enough punishment.
86w183 July 27th, 2009 at 10:54 am
If they are convinced Pena can play an accetable CF then it will be him. Personally I have no problem calling up Jackson to play CF against lefites and late inning defense/running when he doesn’t start. If he strikes out half the time (or more) so what?

The most important thing is they have to be able to get one of their lousy OFs off the field in the late innings.

Is Melancon going back or Albaladejo? Must be tough to decide which guy to put to work in Scranton and which one to allow to rot in the corner of the bullpen.
m July 27th, 2009 at 10:55 am
I think a win’s possible any time the team takes the field. But the Yankees seem to bring out the best in opponents. As long as we take the series, it’ll be good. If we cut down the errors and keep the Rays off the bases, we’ll be good. And I want Jeter and Alex to run with the air condition currents. Cano and Swisher need to go station to station.
Andrew July 27th, 2009 at 10:56 am
I don’t really buy Kay as knowing that Jackson is “not an option next year”. I can see if he has been told that Jackson is not an option this year or right now to fill in for Brett Gardner, but the Yankees would not have already written him off as a candidate for the 2010 team now in late July 2009. He has had a good year, considering he’s still pretty young for AAA and still trying to learn how to hit breaking stuff and fully gain control of the strike zone. Yes he has struck out a lot, but no way would his performance this year completely rule him out of the potential picture for next year’s team.
Dr. Cox July 27th, 2009 at 10:56 am
“Some of you need to educate yourselves about steroids before you comment. Banning amphetemines has had more of an impact on the game than steroid testing. It’s not a coincidence that just about every player in the 34+ age group is getting a day off every couple of weeks and sometimes even more often.”

Please elaborate.
Ham Fighters July 27th, 2009 at 10:56 am
rolen gets $11M plus a $4M bonus next year. could be a contract the jays would move in exchange for one less prospect.
Lara08 July 27th, 2009 at 10:56 am
“I’ll say this: I heard the stories of Mantle and others using greenies. But when someone uses steroids so flgrantly to produce artificial performance, like over 70 HR’s in a single season, I have no respect for them and they shouldn’t be in the HOF.”

Players were using what was available to them through science to get an advantage. For today’s players it was current steroids, for the old-timers it was amphetamines.

We can make differences as to which is more helpful but in the end, they all used something to gain an edge. The difference was what science made possible.

I have nothing but respect for old-timers but I’m not putting them on some high ethical pedestal above today’s players because they didn’t do something they didn’t have the opportunity to do. And that’s not to say that you are “Wait to they come to our house again” I’m just piggybacking off your post.
Patrick the Prospect Hugger July 27th, 2009 at 10:56 am
“kay just said ajax isnt an option and maybe not an option next year”

Kay is also a moron and doesn’t know what the hell he’s talking about.

86w, I agree with you. They need another CF on the roster to replace Damon/Swisher late in games. I also think Melky will be overexposed if he’s the starting CF every day for a month. Jackson could get starts vs lefties.

Also think that Melancon will be sent down, Girardi refuses to use him so might as well let him get innings in Scranton.
Brandon... I'M AWESOME ! BOSTON 8 NEW YORK 0 = 1st PLACE NYY July 27th, 2009 at 10:57 am
“If he’s not an option next year then maybe he’s not as good as we think he is.”

Kay wanted to trade Joba for Teixeira, Hughes for a bag of balls last season. Do I GIVE A DAMN WHAT HE SAIDS!
m July 27th, 2009 at 10:57 am
Wait,

I’m just saying that you can’t keep people based on the results. If they did it, they did it.

They’ll all get in, but it’ll just be known as one of those “eras”
Russell NY July 27th, 2009 at 10:57 am
I wish we had Pettitte on the mound for this series because of his pickoff move. But our best vs their best sounds good.
ADam July 27th, 2009 at 10:58 am
2 Outta 3… Just Win Baby!!!
m July 27th, 2009 at 10:59 am
I guess Jackson replied to Kay’s text.
Wait till they come to OUR house AGAIN July 27th, 2009 at 10:59 am
Lara08-You’right. I’m putting nobody on an ethical pedestal. Being for various reasons basically a Babe Ruth biographer I can say with near certainty that he would have juiced.

However despite the reason it’s also unfair to assume they would have taken modern PED’s and I have no respect for someone who stimulates their performance to such ridiculously high levels.
MG July 27th, 2009 at 10:59 am
Andrew, while Howell has been good this year he still only has 11 saves and doesn’t exactly have awe-inspiring stuff. The Yankees wear out left handed pitchers and his ERA against them this year (in 6 appearances) is 4.50, not even close to his 1.82 season ERA.

I’d rather have Hughes than Howell and I’m sure that almost everyone would agree with me on this blog so that means the Rays best is at best the equivalent of the Yankees #2, that’s a big advantage to the Yankees against the Rays.
no.27 July 27th, 2009 at 11:01 am
“There was talk last night about Adrian Gonzalez to Boston. All that says to me is that Lowell is about done. Boston will be better than they have been this year if they pull it off, but not as good as if Lowell is healthy. IMO, healthy Lowell is better than Youkilis at third; and Youkilis/Gonz are about a wash at first, at least considering that they play in Fenway and a RH batter should be more successful there.”

Adrian Gonzalez is a monster. He would be replacing Lowell and the guys that have been filling in at 1st base. It would be a huge upgrade for them.
Brandon... I'M AWESOME ! BOSTON 8 NEW YORK 0 = 1st PLACE NYY July 27th, 2009 at 11:01 am
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/.....35452.html

IDK why, but I could see a deal swung for Snell + Lastings while Austin gets his work in AAA.
Lara08 July 27th, 2009 at 11:02 am
I’ve never assumed they would take what is out there today. I don’t assume they wouldn’t take them either.

My only belief is the ones who took greenies took what was available to them at the time they played and ethically that’s the same to me as what today’s users did.
bodhisattva - Destiny Wears Pinstripes July 27th, 2009 at 11:02 am
Ham Fighters
July 27th, 2009 at 9:53 am
i watched alot of games in the pre-renovated park. there were more triples, the corners were rounder the fences were only waist-high in RF and LF in front of the stands. (into the 50’s, the ppl in field level seats walked out on the field to exit the stadium) it was more conducive to triples, but the yankees rarely had triples type hitters. the short porch in front of the RF seats was short but not much shorter than the post renovation stadium. it was a good park to hit down the lines, but forget from RC all the way around to the LF grandstand.
for those of you who never had the pleasure of being in the pre-renovated park, you really missed something, it really was a cathedral, massive and impressive with the roof framed by the frieze and those humoungous light towers. an amazing sight!
=========

Very nice post. My father walked in after the renovations and gasped: “They ruined it!”
Wait till they come to OUR house AGAIN July 27th, 2009 at 11:03 am
m-My point is that I’m convinced it’s impossible to hit 70 HR’s in a single season. For me to believe that the steroids weren’t affecting them I’d have to believe that several of the greatest sluggers in the history of the game all came into the league at the same time, grew much bigger too quickly, hit over 70 HR’s for a few seasons, then just as suddenly stopped right around when testing began.

I don’t believe it, and I can’t respect people who artificially stimulated their performace to such a ridiculous extent.
Andrew July 27th, 2009 at 11:03 am
m, I believe it was Chad Jennings that had texted AJax to ask about his status. No way would Michael Kay be in tight with someone who he hadn’t already had time to suck up to and/or turn against and harbor animosity towards.
86w183 July 27th, 2009 at 11:03 am
If baseball has now agreed that a steroid violation is worthy of a third of a season suspension why is it that some of you sanctimonious yahoos think it should also equal a lifetime ban from the Hall?

Guys didn’t get addicted to the stuff. So let’s take everyone we are suspicious of and delete one-third of their best season. Now evaluate them. Better yet, let’s assume they got caught twice. That’s their best season and one-third of the next best.

That makes a lot more sense than trying to selectively determine who’s clean and who isn’t and who did what when? For anyone still active let’s take their post-2003 stats and match them up with pre-2003 and make the adjustments accordingly.

There are ways to put the steroid era into perspective without this blanket ban on everyone implicated. It just requires some intelligence. Is there any out there?
ADam July 27th, 2009 at 11:04 am
Boston Can Add all the Bats they want… It wont make them any better than the 2 man pitching staff they have now.
m July 27th, 2009 at 11:06 am
Andrew,

That was sarcasm. Kay is pronouncing something when it’s very possible that it could happen! I know he doesn’t like catsup on his eggs, but he has it all over his face if Jackson shows up in Tampa.

wait,

So are you saying Bonds took a different steroid or a double dose or something? Bonds probably took and Alex definitely took. You can’t judge one differently than the other because one had a freakishly higher total. They’re both guilty by cause, not result.
Wait till they come to OUR house AGAIN July 27th, 2009 at 11:07 am
86w183-Of course you don’t need a blanket ban. There are different degrees of guilt; for example, I don’t believe that w/o steroids Pudge would be in the HOF. And I think what Bonds, Mcgwire, and Sosa did was way too much abuse to be allowed in.
The Radar Gun Mafia July 27th, 2009 at 11:08 am
“SI.COM reporting that red sux chairman said a big deal is coming.”

I knew that stupid Laroche deal was a bench thing.
Wait till they come to OUR house AGAIN July 27th, 2009 at 11:08 am
m-I’m saying that one used it to affect their performance to an extent that would be impossible w/o the steroids. There ARE different degrees of guilt. Like 86w183 said, you need to use intelligence. You can’t just impose a blanket ban. Or say everybody is innocent.
Brandon... I'M AWESOME ! BOSTON 8 NEW YORK 0 = 1st PLACE NYY July 27th, 2009 at 11:09 am
“Adrian Gonzalez is a monster. He would be replacing Lowell and the guys that have been filling in at 1st base. It would be a huge upgrade for them.”

They’d have to trade Red Sox Nation for him. That’s why I’d soooooo want to see it happen. You think SD is giving freebies? get real.
The Radar Gun Mafia July 27th, 2009 at 11:09 am
ADam
July 27th, 2009 at 11:04 am
Boston Can Add all the Bats they want… It wont make them any better than the 2 man pitching staff they have now.

HAH

Scoffing at Josh Beckett and John Lester?

Yeah those guys suck
86w183 July 27th, 2009 at 11:10 am
Wait till…..

So you are not opposed to PEDs, just the successes of those who use them? Or are you only opposed to the REALLY successful users?

You are standing in morality quicksand when you start setting degrees of outrage. Either PEDs are horrible or they are not. But be careful. Nicotine is a PED, so we’ll have to toss all the tobacco chewers. Caffine, too is a PED so out you go coffee drinkers and soda abusers.

Good luck finding your footing.
Andrew July 27th, 2009 at 11:11 am
Sorry m, I guess the sarcasm meter was turned off for that one. Wouldn’t be the first time Michael Kay was way wrong about something re: the Yankees, as others have pointed out. He was really quick to declare Yuuse a bust after last year, so I am thinking his evaluation skills of Yankees’ prospects is pretty lacking.
m July 27th, 2009 at 11:12 am
I think they will use their “what if they didn’t take steroids, will they still be worthy of the HOF?” thinking caps.

But I don’t believe there are varying degrees of guilt within the steroid era.

Case by case basis, yes. But if Bonds hit 72 HR with, then it’s safe to say he probably would’ve hit 50-60 without.

He was a good hitter prior to that year. So it’s not like he came out of nowhere.
Hokiehill July 27th, 2009 at 11:12 am
““kay just said ajax isnt an option and maybe not an option next year”

If he’s not an option next year then maybe he’s not as good as we think he is.”

I think it’s more likely that Kay just made a guess with this one or heard someone else say the same thing and thought it was worth repeating…either way I’d wager that he’s wrong.
CB July 27th, 2009 at 11:12 am
““SI.COM reporting that red sux chairman said a big deal is coming.””

No they aren’t reporting that at all.

And more importantly – neither is Nick Caffardo at the Boston Globe. And it was Cafardo’s story in the Globe today that SI is referring to in their always on the mark “Truth and Rumors” section.

This is what Caffardo wrote today:

“Red Sox chairman Tom Werner, in town for Jim Rice’s induction, said yesterday that general manager Theo Epstein is “burning the midnight oil’’ trying to make an impact deal before Friday’s trade deadline. It appears the Sox are still in the hunt for Blue Jays ace Roy Halladay and Indians catcher-first baseman Victor Martinez.

“I think we have a pretty good track record of making deals at the deadline that have some impact, but we’re not going to give away our best prospects,’’ Werner said.”

Well that’s daunting. Theo is working very hard to make a trade (as opposed to 28 other GM’s of course). But the Sox won’t trade any of their top prospects.

Big news there. The yankees should be shaking.

http://www.boston.com/sports/b.....d+Sox+news
Wait till they come to OUR house AGAIN July 27th, 2009 at 11:13 am
86w183-Hold on-of course there are differnt degrees of guilt. You can’t just recognize one blanket degree of guilt. That’s as silly as one blanket degree of innocence. And someone who is using PED’s to skyrocket their performance to levels that are impossible for humans to reach are, yes, more gulity than other users.
Brandon... I'M AWESOME ! BOSTON 8 NEW YORK 0 = 1st PLACE NYY July 27th, 2009 at 11:13 am
I laugh at posters thinking it’s just that easy, Kevin Towers is already in some heat w/ his fanbase, Adrian Gonzalez is thier Mattingly in that town. He’s the face of Padres baseball, if the RS get him it’s going to have to be a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuge package. 5 million dollar league leading HR + defense, that’s not going to be 2 SP prospects for 1 bat type deal.
Dan July 27th, 2009 at 11:14 am
I completely agree that using steroids should be a lifetime ban from the HOF. That is not what the HOF is about.

It’s about doing something extremely important for the game and/or doing very well with complete integrity.

If a known steroid user gets into the HOF, then that makes it tainted itself.

If Pete Rose can’t get in for betting on baseball, then no one should get in for taking even one shot of juice.
Wait till they come to OUR house AGAIN July 27th, 2009 at 11:15 am
Lester for Gonzalez, straight up!

I’d LOVE that deal!
The Radar Gun Mafia July 27th, 2009 at 11:16 am
Brandon… I’M AWESOME ! BOSTON 8 NEW YORK 0 = 1st PLACE NYY
July 27th, 2009 at 11:09 am
“Adrian Gonzalez is a monster. He would be replacing Lowell and the guys that have been filling in at 1st base. It would be a huge upgrade for them.”
They’d have to trade Red Sox Nation for him. That’s why I’d soooooo want to see it happen. You think SD is giving freebies? get real.”

You know you’re only talking about Bard right?

You’re that desperate for the Redsox to lose a SET UP man?

None of the other prospects have seen legitimate playing time this year on the major league roster.

Adrian Gonzalez will most certainly overhaul a mediocre offense into an excellent one and I don’t believe we should all rejoice if indeed they pull such a deal off because…Well after all we wont be seeing Josh Bard in the 7th or 8th inning for the next 5 – 10 yrs

WHo gives a $ about Clay Bucholz/Josh Bard?

I guarantee you our pitching staff wont when they’re facing A Gon at The Stadium.

Think he’d enjoy our “Pony League” fences?
Wait till they come to OUR house AGAIN July 27th, 2009 at 11:16 am
“I completely agree that using steroids should be a lifetime ban from the HOF. That is not what the HOF is about.”

“It’s about doing something extremely important for the game and/or doing very well with complete integrity”

No it isn’t. It’s where the best players in the game are recognized for being the best.

Of course, breaking the rules deserves consequences. The debate is what those consequences should be.
86w183 July 27th, 2009 at 11:16 am
So it’s whatever you think or feel people did or did not do? I guess actual facts are unnecessary.

I have said borerline Hall candidates who I was suspicious of (McGuire, Sheffield, Pudge) I would not vote for. Nor would I vote for someone who had such an obvious power spike that took him to an entirely new level (Palmeiro). But truly great players who may have elevated their stas for a period of time (Alex, Clemens, Bonds) I would absolutely vote for.

But it has to be more than a “feel” and it has to be placed in proper context. Look at Bonds pre 1998, project the rest of his career and he’s a Hall of Famer. Look at what Rodriguez has done since testing began and it’s clear he “benefitted” by 10 HR a year in Texas, if that.

If you reduce McGuire and Sosa’s numbers in their juicy prime (1995-200) to their other career average seasons neither is a Hall of Famer.
Brandon... I'M AWESOME ! BOSTON 8 NEW YORK 0 = 1st PLACE NYY July 27th, 2009 at 11:17 am
“Well that’s daunting. Theo is working very hard to make a trade (as opposed to 28 other GM’s of course). But the Sox won’t trade any of their top prospects.

Big news there. The yankees should be shaking.”

LMAO, OMG Theo is working hard. No other GM is working hard. And he’s going to do it w/o trading big prospects too, my cheeks are so tight of fear that dental floss would prbly not make it in between.
Dan July 27th, 2009 at 11:17 am
Maybe they should just make a separate building for people that took PED’s.

Three miles down the street they can build a rundown dirty building that has all the known users in it.

Every known user makes the PED hall of fame.
Wait till they come to OUR house AGAIN July 27th, 2009 at 11:19 am
“I have said borerline Hall candidates who I was suspicious of (McGuire, Sheffield, Pudge) I would not vote for. Nor would I vote for someone who had such an obvious power spike that took him to an entirely new level (Palmeiro)”

EXACTLY!

Mcquire, Sosa, and Bonds also had that power spike that put them on a level that would be impossible for humans to reach w/o steroids.
Brandon... I'M AWESOME ! BOSTON 8 NEW YORK 0 = 1st PLACE NYY July 27th, 2009 at 11:20 am
“WHo gives a $ about Clay Bucholz/Josh Bard?

I guarantee you our pitching staff wont when they’re facing A Gon at The Stadium.

Think he’d enjoy our “Pony League” fences?”

You think that’s going to get it done? You wish you could land him for Bucholz and Bard…babe we’re talking about 45 of your top prospects, and 3 need to be major league ready. One might have to be Youkilis or Pedroia. It’s not gonna be some quickie mart deal.
Dan July 27th, 2009 at 11:20 am
“I have said borerline Hall candidates who I was suspicious of (McGuire, Sheffield, Pudge) I would not vote for. Nor would I vote for someone who had such an obvious power spike that took him to an entirely new level (Palmeiro). But truly great players who may have elevated their stas for a period of time (Alex, Clemens, Bonds) I would absolutely vote for.”

Those players deserve no place in the HOF. Their numbers are simply based on PED’s. They simply in cheated the game of baseball for many years, and that is unacceptable.
Wait till they come to OUR house AGAIN July 27th, 2009 at 11:20 am
By the way, when did I say facts are unnecessary. Repost:

For me to believe that the steroids weren’t affecting them I’d have to believe that several of the greatest sluggers in the history of the game all came into the league at the same time, grew much bigger too quickly, hit over 70 HR’s for a few seasons, then just as suddenly stopped right around when testing began.

I don’t believe it, and I can’t respect people who artificially stimulated their performace to such a ridiculous extent.
BLACKACCORD July 27th, 2009 at 11:21 am
according to mlbtraderumors, Yankees are interested in Ian snell from the pirates..
86w183 July 27th, 2009 at 11:22 am
Dan —

It’s a baseball museum for cryin’ out loud, not a Tabernacle!

Are you starting a drive to throw out all the ball scuffers? There’s no integrity in that. So Yogie and Whitey are gone along with Catfish and Fergie. Gred Maddux and Tom Glavine can forget about it.

How about Spitballers? There goes Gaylord Perry and everyone who pitched prior to 1940.

We gonna toss the pill poppers. That most of the top every day players from WW II till this year. How about the drunks? We gotta toss the racists. There’s no integrity there, right?

I’ve got work to do… but you keep riding that high horse.
Brandon... I'M AWESOME ! BOSTON 8 NEW YORK 0 = 1st PLACE NYY July 27th, 2009 at 11:22 am
4-5 *
Hokiehill July 27th, 2009 at 11:22 am
“according to mlbtraderumors, Yankees are interested in Ian snell from the pirates..”

I thought I snelled something funky in here. If we trade even a B-level prospect for this clown I will NOT be happy.
Dan July 27th, 2009 at 11:22 am
From the multiple books I’ve read about steroids, people are on a different level when taking steroids. I’m talking a 8-10 mph increase level. That isn’t even talent that is just flat out cheating.
Patrick the Prospect Hugger July 27th, 2009 at 11:23 am
McGwire, Bonds and Sosa should be in the HoF.
Wait till they come to OUR house AGAIN July 27th, 2009 at 11:23 am
Snell would be a good move if only to give us depth. Which is all he’d really do. And we’d need to give up a song and a pat on the back to get him.
jpb1973 July 27th, 2009 at 11:24 am
This may be a little off topic but it is a response to Pete’s “pony league home run” description of Jeter’s home run on Saturday. Sure the new stadium is playing smaller than the old one, but I don’t think it is smaller than the original pre-renovation stadium. There is a picture of the 1951 World Series looking out toward right field and at the pole it says “296 ft.” and in straight away RF it says “344? ft. I am pretty sure that RF in the original stadium was smaller than the current one. People have been getting “cheapie” homers in the Stadium for years….why continue to beat that drum. I think I speak for many when I say to Pete, and all the media, to let this story go.

——————————————————

You are right about the pre-renovation Yankee Stadium. It had a very short porch in right field. Roger Maris took advantage of it when he hit 61 HR’s in 1961…he had a way of getting the barrell of the bat out in front of the plate and hooking the ball into the short porch.

Before the pre-renovation Stadium was shut down in 1973, Bobby Murcer was a budding superstar. He was able to average ~30 HR’s per year. During the renovation in 1974 & 1975, the Yankees played at Shea Stadium. Bobby Murcer was only able to hit about 10 HR’s and a frustrated George Stienbrenner traded him to San Francisco for Bobby Bonds.

So, the original Yankee Stadium was indeed a bandbox for lefthand hitters (righthand hitters had a different word for it). If the New Yankee Stadium were built today with the short porch in right and Death Valley in leftcenter as it orginally was, there would be an outcry such as you’ve never heard.
Mike RI July 27th, 2009 at 11:24 am
Yeah not a big fan of Snell . . 2 runs on 9 hits in Tripple A.. thats equivalent to 5 runs here in the big leagues
Brandon... I'M AWESOME ! BOSTON 8 NEW YORK 0 = 1st PLACE NYY July 27th, 2009 at 11:24 am
“I thought I snelled something funky in here. If we trade even a B-level prospect for this clown I will NOT be happy.”

0.96 ERA in his last 6 AAA starts. Just saying.
Dan July 27th, 2009 at 11:24 am
Scuffing balls and throwing spit balls are just parts of the game that have been around since it started in the streets and alleys long ago. PEDs are a TOTALLY different thing. You still get tired throwing a spit ball and a scuffed ball. But you can go for days on steroids and amphetamines.
Wait till they come to OUR house AGAIN July 27th, 2009 at 11:25 am
McGwire would probably not have been a HOF’er w/o roids’. Same with Sosa. Bonds almost definitely would have been, but when you use steroids to the point where you’re doing things humans cannot normally accomplish there is something very wrong going on.
reacher July 27th, 2009 at 11:25 am
Mickey said on a number of occasions that he lost at least 10 “dead center” homeruns in the “old” YS configuration. Were the Mick doing his thing today (sans Billy Martin and the night life), the tape measure would be in use constantly.
L to the 2nd July 27th, 2009 at 11:26 am
Before people get hyaterical about the “launching pad” nonsense:

The dimensions are IDENTICAL to the refurbished Yankee Stadium

The stadium faces in the same direction as the old one, and is basically across the street

So if it’s an issue with “wind currents” (the new Stadium being a lot more “open” than the old one) let’s wait until the old one is gone before we pronounce final judgment. In the meantime, give it a rest – it is what it is for now.
reacher July 27th, 2009 at 11:26 am
I should add… 10 per season.
SMK July 27th, 2009 at 11:26 am
“McGwire, Bonds and Sosa should be in the HoF.”

There’s a Steroids Hall of Fame? I’m guessing it’s probably a wing at the Balco Labs.
jpb1973 July 27th, 2009 at 11:26 am
according to mlbtraderumors, Yankees are interested in Ian snell from the pirates..

——————————————————–

Yanks would be foolish to trade for Snell. He couldn’t handle the environment in Pittsburgh, how do you think he’d act in New York City.
no.27 July 27th, 2009 at 11:26 am
“m-My point is that I’m convinced it’s impossible to hit 70 HR’s in a single season. For me to believe that the steroids weren’t affecting them I’d have to believe that several of the greatest sluggers in the history of the game all came into the league at the same time, grew much bigger too quickly, hit over 70 HR’s for a few seasons, then just as suddenly stopped right around when testing began.

I don’t believe it, and I can’t respect people who artificially stimulated their performace to such a ridiculous extent.”

It’s impossible to hit 70 home runs in a season, but 61 is completely doable? Hitting a home run every 2.3 games instead of every 2.6? How have you figured this out?

And where have you decided to draw the line? You say that you “can’t respect people who artificially stimulated their performace to such a ridiculous extent.” What extent is OK with you?
Wait till they come to OUR house AGAIN July 27th, 2009 at 11:26 am
Joe Dimmaggio lost tons of HR’s in Yankee Stadium. For that matter, so did Ruth.
Hokiehill July 27th, 2009 at 11:27 am
with the HOF it’s not as simple as saying “those caught using PEDS should be out” bcause there is ALOT of players who have been caught but not named or just not caught using that would have the advantage of being elligible while those who just happened to get caught are left out. also, amphetamines are now considered a banned substance, so any player who is known to have used or is rumored to have used them would have to be removed from the hall under those circumstances. Personally, I don’t care who did what and think we should just let everyone in. The fans (some anyway) are smart enough to know who did what and that will forever be a part of each players legacy, and that is punishment enough IMO…
Dan July 27th, 2009 at 11:27 am
A catcher from the Expos I can’t think of his name but I could look it up if you wanted. Went from 16 to 41 HRs in one year with PEDs. More than doubling your HR count in 1 year using PEDs is just flat out unfair.
SMK July 27th, 2009 at 11:29 am
Take a look at Ian Snell’s career #s:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....yerId=6072

308 BBs in 693 IP = disaster in AL East. Pass.
rconn23 July 27th, 2009 at 11:29 am
Amazing to see the overvaluing of Red Sox prospects, but not surprising.

Lars Anderson, their best hitting prospect is barely slugging .400 in his second year of double AA, with more strikeouts than games playerd.

Buccholz is almost 25 and has compiled a 5 plus ERA in more than 100 innings pitched, yet he’s somehow a more desirable prospect than Chamberlain or Hughes.

Michael Bowden has been less than stellar in Pawtucket and is back of the rotation fodder.

Other than Bard, I really fail to see why Epstein considers his prospects untouchable.
reacher July 27th, 2009 at 11:29 am
Mickey lost more as his power was to dead center.
Andrew July 27th, 2009 at 11:29 am
Snell would be a salary dump for Pittsburgh and would give the Yankees another option for the rotation should Mitre not improve and if stretching out Aceves to start or whatever else the plan is for when Joba needs to have his innings limited doesn’t work. I think it would be a good addition to the SP depth, but his salary in 2010 is really off-putting for a guy that is a fringe major leaguer. Not real excited either way if they land him, but it makes sense at least.
Wait till they come to OUR house AGAIN July 27th, 2009 at 11:30 am
no.27-So you expect me to believe that the greatest sluggers of all time were all born and playing at the same time (which happened to be the steroid era), all had their prime years at the same time, and then all ended their prime years at the same time, coincidentally when testing started? Because that’s what you’re asking me to believe.

I “figured this out” because nobody has hit 70 HR’s before or since. Only 2 players have ever hit 60.

What extent is okay with me? Fair enough question. I’ll think on tat answer. But one thing I at least am convinced of is that 70 HR’s is NOT okay.
Dan July 27th, 2009 at 11:30 am
The problem is players no know that you cant just do “some” steroids. You must, if you want to stay “healthy”, do at least one cycle of 6-8 weeks. After 6-8 weeks of steroids you are being unfair.
Wait till they come to OUR house AGAIN July 27th, 2009 at 11:30 am
tat is that
NO HYPE July 27th, 2009 at 11:31 am
lol back to steroid discussion.

10mph increase… thats just laughable
Mike RI July 27th, 2009 at 11:31 am
I’d rather have the kid in Oakland
m July 27th, 2009 at 11:32 am
Kepner also wrote that there’s no chance that Jackson comes up, even though he included Girardi’s full quote that said it was something they would talk about.

That didn’t sound like a definitive no. Unless Girardi’s head was shaking no like a bobble head, then that quote was not definitive at all in either direction.
Hokiehill July 27th, 2009 at 11:32 am
On Snell…

“0.96 ERA in his last 6 AAA starts. Just saying.”

5.36 ERA in 15 starts in the majors this season…Just saying.
Brandon... I'M AWESOME ! BOSTON 8 NEW YORK 0 = 1st PLACE NYY July 27th, 2009 at 11:32 am
“I’d rather have the kid in Oakland”

He’s not a viable option Oakland isn’t dealing him.
pat July 27th, 2009 at 11:32 am
When you break it down, the baseball HOF is a museum that tells about baseball history and as such needs to tell the whole story not just the pretty one.

Leaving guys out who excelled in their era is like leaving chapters out of a book and still thinking you have the whole story.

The plaques can explain what you need them to but all players who excelled in their era should be included.
Fan mail from some flounder July 27th, 2009 at 11:33 am
Hey, I’ve got an idea, lets have yet another argue/discussion over steroids. Yeah, that will be interesting. I’m sure all kinds of new points of view would surface ’cause you know, the subject has never been fully dissected…

So, have the BlowSux signed everyone’s #1 starter & #1 hitter yet? I understand Theo is working hard…
Patrick the Prospect Hugger July 27th, 2009 at 11:33 am
“There’s a Steroids Hall of Fame? I’m guessing it’s probably a wing at the Balco Labs.”

McGwire, Sosa and Bonds were 3 of the best players during their era. It doesn’t matter what they took. All 3 should be in the hall.
Hokiehill July 27th, 2009 at 11:34 am
Snell is fine if he’s coming to be our #6 starter, but if that’s the case then the Yankees taking his contract is really all he’s worth. Maybe we can send them an old YS urinal or something, but that would be pushing it.
Wait till they come to OUR house AGAIN July 27th, 2009 at 11:34 am
But would they have been the best players of their era w/o steroids? And at what point do you say “enough”?
Dan July 27th, 2009 at 11:34 am
“10mph increase… thats just laughable.”

Read a few things and look at some stats and you will see that it is possible. From the mouths of players they have said it increased their FB up to 10 MPH. Pettitte himself said that after his elbow injury he started winstrol and he went from 88-95 on a 6 week cycle.
Bret the Hitman July 27th, 2009 at 11:35 am
Ohlendorf is outpitching Snell by a wide margin. Snell would be a gascan glazed in petroleum in the AL East.
Brandon... I'M AWESOME ! BOSTON 8 NEW YORK 0 = 1st PLACE NYY July 27th, 2009 at 11:35 am
“5.36 ERA in 15 starts in the majors this season…Just saying.”

22+ ERA for a some Yankee that was thrown into the rotation as a 3 SP. Just saying.
Hokiehill July 27th, 2009 at 11:36 am
““5.36 ERA in 15 starts in the majors this season…Just saying.”

22+ ERA for a some Yankee that was thrown into the rotation as a 3 SP. Just saying.”

You see anyone trading for Wang either?
Mike RI July 27th, 2009 at 11:38 am
Look . .i’m sure there are other options other than Snell. Just because we had scouts down there only shows we have a certain amount of intrest.

We have scouts all of MLB scouting pitchers.
m July 27th, 2009 at 11:38 am
And the opinion that Ruth or the other luminaries of baseball would’ve used if the “science” had been available to them doesn’t justify anything the players are doing in our time. No Yankee fan was saying about that about Bonds, so stop using it for Alex.

The fact of the matter is, the modern guys knew it was wrong. They weren’t taking it for their health or to increase their fertility and suddenly discovered that it added pop to their bat. They knew it was harmful. If they didn’t think it would help, they wouldn’t have done it.

That was then, and this is now.
Patrick the Prospect Hugger July 27th, 2009 at 11:39 am
Ian Snell is not very good, the Yanks don’t need him.
rconn23 July 27th, 2009 at 11:39 am
Snell is a bad pitcher. He’s 27, and has had one passable year pitching in a mediocre division. He’s been horrible since then.

So the Yankees should trade for him after a handful of AAA starts where he’s been dominating non-major league quality competition to plop him right in the middle of a pennant race in the AL East.

That should work out well.

And Billy Beane will trade anyone if he thinks he can get more value back. His team is going nowhere. If he thinks he can get a prospect or two for Duchscherer, who is 31, he’s going to do it.
Robbykid July 27th, 2009 at 11:40 am
Who has a better chance to win MVP in ’09?

Jeter or Tex??
GW July 27th, 2009 at 11:41 am
“Who has a better chance to win MVP in ‘09?

Jeter or Tex??”

A-ROD
Patrick the Prospect Hugger July 27th, 2009 at 11:41 am
Tex because Jeter’s defense is overlooked and he isn’t a slugger.
Wait till they come to OUR house AGAIN July 27th, 2009 at 11:42 am
Robbykid-Tex. Totally Tex. Jeter is having a terrific season, but Tex has been…man.

Mauer is gonna win it anyway.
Dan July 27th, 2009 at 11:42 am
I don’t believe Snell becomes a Yankee. The Pirates have said it would take a “gaggle” of guys to get Snell. Sending good prospects to Pittsburgh is like giving them to the RS.
NO HYPE July 27th, 2009 at 11:42 am
Winstrol? One week?

Winstrol is a very very mild compound and does not produce great strength gains. If it was an oral like dbol/anabol then I would believe it. Even then, powerlifters will only see 10-20lb increase in max lifts on a week of steroids IF THAT.
Robbykid July 27th, 2009 at 11:43 am
Jeter has some numbers tho…..

.321 11 43 .398 .457

Not to mention 18 SB…
Wait till they come to OUR house AGAIN July 27th, 2009 at 11:43 am
New thread
The Radar Gun Mafia July 27th, 2009 at 11:43 am
I heard Ian Snell was a head case ala Grienke pre 2007.

No thanks
Mike RI July 27th, 2009 at 11:44 am
I don’t want Snell or Bronson Arroyo . Yanks need someone solid.
SMK July 27th, 2009 at 11:44 am
Good question, Robbykid. I’d have to say Teix, but Jeter seems to be better than ever.

Teixeira has had the biggest free agent impact on the Yanks since Reggie, imho.
86w183 July 27th, 2009 at 11:44 am
Dan —

What the heck does 8-10 MPH increase mean?

If you want to claim 10-20 percent power increase I can buy that. Take 20 percent of the power numbers from sluggers and strikeout pitchers and then grade them.

You still haven’t answered why steroid use is the only unacceptable form of cheating. Don’t you either have to ban them all or ignore them all?

My biggest issue is that I detest the notion of retroactive legislation. Baseball had no rules against steroid use until 2004. Don’t give me the innocuous “illegal drug” language in the basic agreement. That was solely inserted to let baseball punish cocaine abusers and effectively ended that area 30 years ago.

I’m fine with testing now and I’d be fine with even stricter punishments. I am not fine with the idea of punishing people for breaking rules that did not exist.

Let’s say the company you’ve been with for ten years starts testing of drugs today and you admit to using one of the drugs they’ve banned two years ago. Should it be okay for them to fire you?
bodhisattva - Destiny Wears Pinstripes July 27th, 2009 at 11:44 am
How about Pittsburgh just gives us back Tabata.
Robbykid July 27th, 2009 at 11:44 am
Mauer has incredible numbers too, but I think JMorneau has a better chance on that team…

.315 26 82 .399 .597
m July 27th, 2009 at 11:44 am
I’d rather talk about steroids than Snell. Yes, he’s that mediocre.

___________________________________

10:11am: Vernon Wells and Aaron Hill told Bob Elliott of the Toronto Sun that they expect Halladay to remain a Jay. Elliott says the Phillies, Red Sox and Angels have the best chance of obtaining Doc.

I wasn’t aware that Toronto had changed their stance on an intra-division trade for Doc.
Lara08 July 27th, 2009 at 11:44 am
“And the opinion that Ruth or the other luminaries of baseball would’ve used if the “science” had been available to them doesn’t justify anything the players are doing in our time. No Yankee fan was saying about that about Bonds, so stop using it for Alex.”

WRONG.

1. No one said if the science was available they would have used therefore its justifiable that today’s players used.

2. There was “science” back in their days and some of them did use what was available to them. Therefore, the fact is those who used back then are the same as those who used today ethically. Now if people want to debate what was more helpful thats another argument.

3 Not all Yankee fans were bashing Barry.
Dan July 27th, 2009 at 11:46 am
NO HYPE – I didn’t say 1 week of Winstrol? I said one cycle that is about 8 weeks.
m July 27th, 2009 at 11:47 am
Lara,

That comment was directed at Wait and based on what he said, I stand by those 3 statements.
Corey July 27th, 2009 at 11:48 am
I wouldnt mind Halladay going to the Sox….that means theyd probably lose Buchholz, Masterson, Bowden and someone or two others….I think they would get the crap end of that stick in a couple years…Heck they might feel the impact of that right away as it would make their pen a little weaker as well right now without masterson…their offense has leveled out
Dan July 27th, 2009 at 11:49 am
Steroids gives you more than 10-20% power increase. From what many steroid user has ever said about steroids is that they are an unbelievable drug that gives you an immense amount of power and endurance.
Dan July 27th, 2009 at 11:50 am
Gotta go to the store sorry. I’m not trying to argue the case just talking baseball. There are a lot of great books out there that tell a lot about what steroids have done in baseball. It is quite interesting. Nice talking bye all.
Wait till they come to OUR house AGAIN July 27th, 2009 at 11:51 am
“That comment was directed at Wait and based on what he said, I stand by those 3 statements.”

I didn’t even know it was directed at me.

What I said was that Ruth probably would have used if he could’ve. Not that it matters.

You can’t judge past players on things they didn’t have available to them. It’s just as unfair to judge them for something they couldn’t do and say they did as imposing a blanket ban on roid’ users.
no.27 July 27th, 2009 at 11:51 am
“no.27-So you expect me to believe that the greatest sluggers of all time were all born and playing at the same time (which happened to be the steroid era), all had their prime years at the same time, and then all ended their prime years at the same time, coincidentally when testing started? Because that’s what you’re asking me to believe.”

Not at all. I’ve never said anything like that. I am completely sure that many, if not most of the top players in this era were using steroids to enhance their performances.

What I’m saying is that it would be a bigger crime to baseball to completely discount what players and teams have achieved in this era. You can’t pick and choose who is guilty of taking steroids because we will never know every name or for that matter, how their performances were affected.

If you want to take away McGuire and Sosa’s home run chase in 1998, then you need to wipe out the Yankees incredible season that year. If Red Sox fans want to discount the Yankees 4 championships, then they have to give up the 2 that they won.

“I “figured this out” because nobody has hit 70 HR’s before or since. Only 2 players have ever hit 60. What extent is okay with me? Fair enough question. I’ll think on tat answer. But one thing I at least am convinced of is that 70 HR’s is NOT okay.”

By that logic, you would have known for a fact that it was impossible to hit more than 60 before Maris did it because no one had done it before, right?

When these guys used steroids there were no penalties in place for performance enhancing drugs. Don’t you think that if they knew their chances of going into the Hall of Fame could be hurt by doing steroids that it would have deterred some of them from doing it? Creating a penalty after the fact is not a fair policy.
pat July 27th, 2009 at 11:52 am
m

“If they didn’t think it would help, they wouldn’t have done it.”

Ball scuffing? Bat corking? Pitch tipping? Amphetamines use? PEDs use?

Which of those can’t your quote be said about? It’s about edge. Jeter got his from Ford, many others got it through the method available to them at the time.
Patrick the Prospect Hugger July 27th, 2009 at 11:53 am
“Steroids gives you more than 10-20% power increase.”

Never been proven.
Hokiehill July 27th, 2009 at 11:54 am
the Snell debate has gone in circles every time he comes up so here’s a quick summary and we (at least I will) can move on.

Pros…

1. He has a good ERA in a few starts in AAA
2. You might “catch lightning in a bottle”

Cons…
1. He has a terrible ERA in a bad division in the majors
2. He got sent down by THE PIRATES..aka he’s not good enough for one of the worst teams in baseball
3. He’s reportedly a headcase = not good in NY
4. He’s not an improvement over anyone on the Yankees roster
5. He’s going to cost something (reportedly more than he’s worth)
m July 27th, 2009 at 11:54 am
Oops, I didn’t direct it directly. So what I’m saying is you can’t say it’s no big deal that players use now because the old-timers would’ve used steroids if they were around.

Now you may or may not mean this, but I’ve seen it many times here when Alex was exposed.
m July 27th, 2009 at 11:56 am
pat,

No, if the modern players didn’t think steroids would help they wouldn’t have used them.

They knew it was bad for them, and they still took them. That was my point.

Like people smoking cigarettes because they think it enhanced their image. haha.
NO HYPE July 27th, 2009 at 11:57 am
Dan,

You wouldn’t take just winny for a cycle anyway. It would always be stacked with test and would last at least 10 weeks with 12 being optimal.

Take it from somebody who knows lol
Hokiehill July 27th, 2009 at 11:59 am
NO HYPE = Barry Bonds
Wait till they come to OUR house AGAIN July 27th, 2009 at 11:59 am
“I “figured this out” because nobody has hit 70 HR’s before or since. Only 2 players have ever hit 60. What extent is okay with me? Fair enough question. I’ll think on tat answer. But one thing I at least am convinced of is that 70 HR’s is NOT okay.”

“By that logic, you would have known for a fact that it was impossible to hit more than 60 before Maris did it because no one had done it before, right?”

Hold on-by that logic Maris wasn’t around in the steroid era. And he was the only one to do it, you notice. One season only. That was it.

And while you will never know how many perforances were affected and to what extent, that doesn’t mean you can give people passes you DO know about.

I’m not saying EVERYBODY w/HOF numbers in the steroid era should be banned but Bonds, Sosa, McGwire, Pudge, should at least be punished for it. And no, what they did individually should not be extended to their teams.

“When these guys used steroids there were no penalties in place for performance enhancing drugs. Don’t you think that if they knew their chances of going into the Hall of Fame could be hurt by doing steroids that it would have deterred some of them from doing it? Creating a penalty after the fact is not a fair policy.”

You have a point there. But what they were doing was affecting the game tremendously and they knew it. Which is why baseball has to get involved.
no.27 July 27th, 2009 at 12:02 pm
“86w183-Of course you don’t need a blanket ban. There are different degrees of guilt; for example, I don’t believe that w/o steroids Pudge would be in the HOF. And I think what Bonds, Mcgwire, and Sosa did was way too much abuse to be allowed in.”

What science are you going to use to decide these degrees of guilt?? There is none. There is no way to prove that a player was clean and there’s no way to prove that one person that did steroids was more, less, or equally effected as someone else that did steroids. It would be completely arbitrary and based on biases.

Now you want to keep Pudge out of the hall?? He’s a FOURTEEN time all star with THIRTEEN gold gloves and SEVEN silver slugger awards. He’s also won a championship with 2 different teams.
Andrew July 27th, 2009 at 12:02 pm
Hokiehill, no guarantee that Mitre and Igawa are better than Snell, and as it stands right now that is starter #5 and #6. If acquiring him meant slotting him in as starter #6 I think it makes sense. Also, the “headcase” reports all seem to center on his hatred of pitching for the Pittsburgh Pirates. He and the organization are completely at odds and his quotes seemed to indicate he was having a mental breakdown pitching for one of the worst teams in baseball.

That said, if he costs anything in prospects it is a no-go. The Pirates have no leverage in dealing him so if they are trying to ask for anything talent-wise, he will stay on the Pirates’ AAA team. His biggest “pro” would be his relatively low cost, and his ability to be slotted in to Scranton’s rotation first and then potentially summoned to the Bronx if deemed necessary/ready.
Wait till they come to OUR house AGAIN July 27th, 2009 at 12:05 pm
no.27-I want to keep Pudge out of the HOF because I doubt highly w/o steroids that he’d be in the HOF.

Of course thre are degrees of guilt. You wouldn’t execute a jaywalker, would you? And you need someone to decide what those degrees are. I consider doing things that would be impossible for humans to do w/o steroids a high degree of guilt. Perhpas you need someone to decide that officially. But come on, you’d have to live under a rock to believe they could produce those numbers w/o PED’s.
no.27 July 27th, 2009 at 12:07 pm
“You have a point there. But what they were doing was affecting the game tremendously and they knew it. Which is why baseball has to get involved.”

Baseball should have gotten involved when it FIRST BECAME A PROBLEM. It is the people that were running baseball and the players’ union that should be banned from the hall of fame. They saw the problem as early as 1994 and did NOTHING because baseball was struggling through the strike and NEEDED something like the home run chase to get it back to where it was.

For baseball to use and market guys like Sosa and McGuire to increase popularity and then kick them to the curb is a joke. If anyone should be banned from the Hall of Fame it should be Bud Selig.
Wait till they come to OUR house AGAIN July 27th, 2009 at 12:08 pm
Bud Selig has done a terrible job. But because they missed the boat once doesn’t mean they should let them get away w/it now either.
pat July 27th, 2009 at 12:09 pm
m

I agree that PED users thought it would help.

No different than guys who took amphetamines though to me. They enhanced their performance by artificial means.

As to whether they knew it could hurt them, we’re talking about baseball players, who may not be the sharpest pencils in the box. I always think back to Jeremy Gimabi testifying in the Grand Jury that he didn’t think steroids would hurt him because Jason took them and it didn’t kill him.
Lara08 July 27th, 2009 at 12:12 pm
“As to whether they knew it could hurt them, we’re talking about baseball players, who may not be the sharpest pencils in the box. I always think back to Jeremy Gimabi testifying in the Grand Jury that he didn’t think steroids would hurt him because Jason took them and it didn’t kill him.”

I remember that. LOL I wonder what Jeremy was thinking when he found out Jason didn’t really know what he was taking either.
Wait till they come to OUR house AGAIN July 27th, 2009 at 12:14 pm
Anyway, I’m out. I had fun debating either way.
m July 27th, 2009 at 12:15 pm
pat,

That’s true. Greenies is a lesser of an offense to me, for some reason. Perhaps because it was so open? After they were banned then it’s a rule breaker for me.

If there are rules, you follow them. That simple. Yeah, if you’re not cheating, you’re not trying. But if you get caught, the “but, everyone” defense doesn’t work with me.
Hideki Irabu July 27th, 2009 at 12:41 pm
Andrew
July 27th, 2009 at 12:02 pm
Hokiehill, no guarantee that Mitre and Igawa are better than Snell
__________________________________________________________
I much better than Igawa, he suckee even in Japan. He best batting practice pitcher in Asia, many, many home runs hit so players like him.
NO HYPE July 27th, 2009 at 12:45 pm
lol hokie you got me!
bardos July 27th, 2009 at 2:37 pm
btw, i watched the ’61 season mostly on television. maris had perfected his swing to perfectly take advantage of the short “right field porch”. he hit many a home run into that section just past the 344 foot sign. (not to mention the 296 foot foul pole).

other players have basically killed their average and swing to try to take advantage of it. even maris hit a pedestrian .269 that year, as i recall.
Paul July 27th, 2009 at 4:13 pm
Starting Picthers For This Series

Yankees Rays
W-L 25-12 17-19
ERA 3.76 4.69
K’s 303 271
BB’s 150 120
IP 365.1 344.2
josh July 27th, 2009 at 7:15 pm
Come on Pete! If you’ve followed True Blood from Episode 1 of season 1, it makes perfect sense! I loves me some true blood! Great site btw! It’s always, mlb trade rumors, river ave. blues and then lohud! (best for last!)

Go Yanks!!!

The LoHud Yankees Blog

A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News

Pitching matchups for the Rays series

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