Today in The Journal News
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- July
- 28
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The Yankees stayed hot and slammed the Rays behind A.J. Burnett,
The Yankees need another outfielder. But who? This notebook also has updates on the trade market, an event with CC and Carl Crawford and Chien-Ming Wang.
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on Tuesday, July 28th, 2009 at 9:20 am by Peter Abraham.
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Chad Jennings
Sam Borden
Josh Thomson
Nice work by CC and Carl Crawford.
Amazing that I now feel confident when AJ is on the mound…
CB, thanks for posting that Kepner link re: AJ. I always thought they would eventually work well together because I think in some ways they have similar temperments (they can be emotional at times). Also, they got along personally – it’s not like there was a conflict of personality that would prevent them from ever getting on the same page. Both men deserve a lot of credit. Jorge has been doing this a long time and he knows what he’s doing; AJ (starting in Toronto, apparently) decided he didn’t want to waste all the talent he was blessed with and became far less stubborn. It’s interesting that he hasn’t had his curve in recent starts, but that’s a good test for AJ because when he does have a good curve, forget it. I guess in Toronto, even during his last half year there, his rep was that he could only win when he was dominating. AJ’s shown that’s not the case this year – there have been several times that he’s had either no control or no curve or both and still been able to get through a game. He’s just a lot of fun to watch.
Catching up with Carl Crawford” will begin at 2:45 p.m. The kids invited will stay for the game, courtesy of Crawford
________________________
I hope the kids get him really really tired.
“Nice work by CC and Carl Crawford.”
I agree. Curtis Granderson of DET would be happy; this is a big issue for him.
Little G is gone for 3-4 weeks min. Call up AJax now. Work him into games late in the game as sub in the field and on the bases. Get his feet wet so if Melky needs a blow, he can play CF without wetting his pants. We don’t need another bat and we don’t need Swish or Johnnie in CF…
Trade for a pitcher not an OF. Come September Joba is going to be at his limit and it does not sound good for the Wanger coming back anytime soon…
I can’t believe all the whining about Melancon. His time will come if he’s not traded by the Yankees.:)
I hope big lefty CC is also doing a soft-pitch recruiting effort to speedy CC.
Heath Bell will be acquired by the Yankees and Aceves will join the rotation.
“I can’t believe all the whining about Melancon”
NYY is +23 games over .500
people on this site have to have something to b**** about
Boy does Sui look old running the bases. Is he 35 or 45?
I hope next year the Yankees can use that DH spot more to give the older guys 1/2 days off rather than have someone there 75% of the time. Maybe Johnnie comes back as a 50/50 OF/DH for 1 year? Sui is clogging up the DH spot this year for sure…
we don’t need Swish or Johnnie in CF…
====
Oh lord, no. They would drown in CF.
AJax would be a great solution – he’s a real OF. A real good one defensively. We don’t need him to be a world beater at the plate. But it doesn’t sound like they are going that way.
I Don’t like the thought of Ace in the rotation.
Heath Bell is not being traded and the Pads, should they decided to do so, would ask for a king’s ransom….no thanks.
Mike RI
July 28th, 2009 at 10:08 am
I Don’t like the thought of Ace in the rotation.
___________________________________________________
I second that!
does Theo pull a rabbit out the hat, and land a big deal ?
““I can’t believe all the whining about Melancon”
NYY is +23 games over .500
people on this site have to have something to b**** about”
————
I agree but I also understand why people would either want him pitching in NY or pitching in Scranton.
If he is almost never going to be an option right now in NY, he’s best suited in AAA so he can work on his game.
I assume he’ll be sent down soon, so no big deal.
“Heath Bell is not being traded and the Pads, should they decided to do so, would ask for a king’s ransom….no thanks.”
which he is not worth.
For all the hype and all the greif the Yankees got about signing CC, AJ, and Tex, it sure has made this team a lot better…
Now let’s see this AJax guy come up! The timing can’t be that bad; he’s slated to be up in Sept anyway. He’s the only guy at AAA that has skills similar to BG.
“I Don’t like the thought of Ace in the rotation.”
————
the Yanks have a fairly tough second half and will probably need a competitive 5th starter if they’re going to win the division.
If Aceves can get them 6 innings of 3 run ball, I’d say it’s a smart move. Otherwise (assuming no deal is made), Mitre is fine. He seems like he’ll give them about that with the occasional dud start.
Getting Marte back will help alleviate the loss in the bullpen. Of course we cannot expect similar results, Marte should still help.
vinny-b (keep Montero)
July 28th, 2009 at 10:03 am
“I can’t believe all the whining about Melancon”
NYY is +23 games over .500
people on this site have to have something to b**** about
====
Again, as I stated last night, this is my issue with this forum.
This is frankly a stupid throw-away comment, playing to the gallery.
The people here who want to see Melancon get work have given detailed reasons; to call it ******* is lazy on your part.
If you don’t agree, why not address the posts of people who have actually taken the time to explain their positions, rather than repeat a tired cliche that lumps everyone on the board together that questions a decision.
Either address the actual posts earnestly, or ignore them. Your remark is condescending and just tells me you don’t have the patience to participate honestly on a baseball forum.
That’s what people do on a forum – they discuss ideas. They question decisions. They project, analyze, debate. They don’t just yell “RAH RAH! We’re in first place!”
I suppose if that’s their goal on a forum, they’re free to do so – but it’s a little ridiculous to ridicule people who stop short of doing only that.
We’re talking about a prized reliever whom the Yankees themselves have had an eye to ultimately include in this year’s bullpen, not because they want to stroke the rookie, but because his arm justifies the notion that he can contribute.
It’s now bee 17 days since he last pitched: unless you have no pulse, this is going to be material for some discussion: going into the season, he’s ranked ninth and 11th in the Yankee system by BA and BP – no one is shouting for the Yankees to bring up Kevin Whelan to contribute this year.
In other words, perspective on what the discussion actually is, rather than dismissing people who are taking the time to construct a real argument – regardless of which side they are on – would be appreciated.
That’s what baseball forums are for – discussion and ideas, and some community rooting, of course.
People would rather whine about nothing instead of talking about the positives…..It’s the same reason you get mostly complaints to sports talks shows – it’s more provocative.
“For all the hype and all the greif the Yankees got about signing CC, AJ, and Tex, it sure has made this team a lot better…”
———
so true – even if they had big expectations to live up to
remember when NESPN was saying the Sox had added more to their team at a fraction of the cost??
They said Penny was the same as AJ. Smoltz was the same as CC.
I wonder if they’ll go back and show those tapes on Baseball Tonight.
If Wang is not coming back the Yankees need to aquire another starter.
Ace can make another start or 2 if necessary but they need another for depth.
Joba is going to run out of innings and you need to guard against another guy going down.
“They said Penny was the same as AJ. Smoltz was the same as CC.
NEVER said by anybody on any station. Ever. An absolute fabrication of fans on this blog.
“If Wang is not coming back the Yankees need to aquire another starter.
Ace can make another start or 2 if necessary but they need another for depth.
Joba is going to run out of innings and you need to guard against another guy going down.”
—–
I think Ace could last the season as the starter. Joba could last as well if they can sit him here and there.
But if another guy goes down, as you suggest, it wouldn’t hurt to have some depth.
Plus, keeping Ace in the pen gives the Yanks much more versatility.
Ace is the Yanks version of Masterson (back when he was good
). He can pitch the 8th or he can go 3 innings.
remember when NESPN was saying the Sox had added more to their team at a fraction of the cost??
They said Penny was the same as AJ. Smoltz was the same as CC.
I wonder if they’ll go back and show those tapes on Baseball Tonight.
———————————————————–
I think the Sox can be happy that one of the 2 (Penny) has done well for them.
Penny = Andy , Not CC or AJ…
Somltz was a gamble that did not workout. He’ll be in the Pen when one of their other starters comes off the DL.
No commentary from Lupica surrounding the latest Mets fiasco. Surprise.
Corey Patterson or Ryan Freel
““They said Penny was the same as AJ. Smoltz was the same as CC.
NEVER said by anybody on any station. Ever. An absolute fabrication of fans on this blog.”
———-
I heard it with my own ears and saw it with my own eyes. ESPN.
I think it was Steve Phillips who said the Sox would get comparable impact but they only had to sign Penny and Smoltz to 1-yr deals.
He absolutely implied that he preferred the Sox decision to sign Penny/Smoltz to 1yr deals rather than CC and AJ for large contracts.
Right On!,
I heard several people on ESPN scoff at the AJ contract. They applauded the Sox for finding “great deals” and ripped the Yanks for their typical ways – spending big on big names that probably won’t work out.
They could still be right – it’s a 5 year deal.
But so far, there’s a little egg in their faces.
Dave, this is the key:
“Plus, keeping Ace in the pen gives the Yanks much more versatility.”
Ace can do lots of things and should remain in the pen because of that. If Ace gets moved from the Pen, they will need Burney to step up his game a lot.
Free Hughes
I would rather see Aceves in the rotation than give up anything for Arroyo.
Betsy, its not whining, perhaps I am obsessing, but thats different than whining. It’s just questioning whether a guy would be better off here or in Scranton, which is far from being ridiculous. Perhaps you dont realize the talent this guy has. I don’t agree with him sitting on the bench for 3 weeks when he could be pitching in AAA.
I am leery of the five-year commitment also, but I suppose if we don’t give him the extra year the risk is he’s pitching in Atlanta.
Although 32, the guy has lost nothing, and is still at his peak. And it’s only money, not valuable inventory.
SJ,
Thanks for chiming in with your opinion about Girardi’s bullpen non-move last night. It’s not the call most people were expecting, but not much anyone can do about it.
Betsy,
I’m watching the replay now. AJ looks good so far. Heart nearly stopped on Matsui’s slide across home plate and AJ’s sliding forceout to first.
Weird though, for the first 1.5 innings there was no audio so I was hearing a lot of crowd noise, the HP ump’s calls, and BJ Upton yapping about that called strike 3. I found myself missing Kay’s voice. Until it actually came back on.
bodhisattva – Destiny Wears Pinstripes – Melancon Watch: Seventeen Days -
That was a really good, well thought out post.
“Betsy, its not whining, perhaps I am obsessing, but thats different than whining. It’s just questioning whether a guy would be better off here or in Scranton, which is far from being ridiculous.”
——
there seems to be a disconnect here. I think it’s ok to suggest that a player who is never going to be used should be developing in the minors. It’s also ok to suggest that Melancon is currently the last option in the Yanks pen.
As long as Melancon is sent down soon, I don’t think it’s a huge deal…. certainly not big enough to talk about for days
“Dave, this is the key:
“Plus, keeping Ace in the pen gives the Yanks much more versatility.”
Ace can do lots of things and should remain in the pen because of that. If Ace gets moved from the Pen, they will need Burney to step up his game a lot.”
————-
I never thought I’d say this after April/May but the Yanks pen could probably handle losing Ace.
But, unlike the Joba argument, it’s a fair question to ask whether Ace offers more value in the bullpen than as the #5 starter.
Like you said, he offers them a real weapon in the pen.
If they can add a capable #5 starter on the cheap, they’ll be better off for sure.
“Free Hughes”
He’s 96′ Mo this year. Shaddup.
Fan Interference-Reality Check
July 28th, 2009 at 10:34 am
I would rather see Aceves in the rotation than give up anything for Arroyo.
=====
Another reason I see wisdom in getting Melancon going is to allow us to transition Ace into the SR.
Although you hate to take him out of a role he’s so right for, he’s also a quality pitcher who wouldn’t have to alter anything to go into the rotation. He uses his complement of pitches out of the BP any way – so it’s not like he’d have “wake up” a sleeping pitch he’d discarded.
Melancon could take over his long man role, leaving Hughes undisturbed. And if you eventually add Joba to the mix (on acccount of IC/PC), that’s a devastating BP still, even with Ace in the rotation.
Also, we don’t have to waste prospects and $$ on a has-been or NL arm.
Unbelievable run by the Bombers. Too bad about Gardner. Not the biggest Melky fan in the world, but he seems to have held his own of late, so I don’t think it’s as big a deal as it otherwise might be. No replacement player for Gardner though yet, eh?
Burnett? Wow! If Halladay gets sent to the NL, he may well find himself in a Cy Young race.
5th starter? Wouldn’t pay big for it. Ducsherer? That seems worth a shot, no? Think Aceves should stick in the pen.
If the only complaint about the state of the Yanees is that the last man in the bullpen hasn’t pitched in 17 days all is well.
On the Melancon thing, I had read that he was pitching multi inning outing at AAA so he could possibly be a long man. I’m guessing that’s why he stayed and Tomko went.
I would bet, when Marte is ready, Melancon will be back in AAA.
My other guess is that Alby will be replaced by Pena or Ajax today. I’d love to se Ajax in there tonight against the lefty, but.
“Free Hughes”
He’s 96? Mo this year. Shaddup.
—
No you. He could be 96 Andy pettitte instead.
I’m gonna laugh if they call up BAM BAM b/c he’s so not what we need at all.
Thanks Erica,
And congrats on a stellar night for your pretend boyfriend. He made some nice plays in the outfield too – win-win.
Joe gets credit for keeping him fresh – we need him feeling good. May also bode well for bringing him back for another tour
.
If Phil Hughes could not start because he was in the bullpen for too long(oh no 2 weeks! His pitch count is down to 30
), then what makes anyone think that Melancon is going to be the long man if he hasnt pitched in 17 days? He went multiple innings in the minors because he was pretty efficient and would throw 20-30 pitches doing it.
He hasn’t pitched for 17 days his pitch limit is probably in the negatives now.
Seattle to become sellers –
http://seattletimes.nwsource.c.....nto_s.html
“They said Penny was the same as AJ. Smoltz was the same as CC.
NEVER said by anybody on any station. Ever. An absolute fabrication of fans on this blog.
——————————————————-
Mr. Gammons, is that you??
Boston Dave !
Seattle to become sellers –
Good news . .hopefully the price is right!. Washburn coul be a good pickup !
Patrick in CT,
At AA last year, Melancon ran into multiple innings just because they were trying to get him enough work. He was so efficient, he’d end up going three innings before you knew it, just to elevate his pitch counts.
It’s not just that he was wasting his time from a competitive point of view – he also has FB/sinker/CB/change to play with and ability to get quick outs for brief innings, so they have started to view him in a long-man capacity. He really is the best replacement for Ace, should they move latter into SR. Because unlike Tomko – who goes 94,94,94 boom! – Melancon has 3 plus pitches. I think that’s why Girardi has said he wants to bring him in early – they see him as an innings eater, which he can be.
bodhisattva – Destiny Wears Pinstripes – Melancon Watch: Seventeen Days
July 28th, 2009 at 10:44 am
Thanks Erica,
And congrats on a stellar night for your pretend boyfriend. He made some nice plays in the outfield too – win-win.
Joe gets credit for keeping him fresh – we need him feeling good. May also bode well for bringing him back for another tour
****
Thanks Bodhi. I was really excited for him last night. I am still happy this morning
I am worried with the lack of a 4th outfielder, he may not get to rest as often as he should- since his legs are definitely still bothering him more than he admits (he actually mentioned them during the postgame with Kim Jones). Hopefully, he can somehow get healthier and continue making a strong second half push
Jerkface
July 28th, 2009 at 10:44 am
If Phil Hughes could not start because he was in the bullpen for too long(oh no 2 weeks! His pitch count is down to 30 ), then what makes anyone think that Melancon is going to be the long man if he hasnt pitched in 17 days? He went multiple innings in the minors because he was pretty efficient and would throw 20-30 pitches doing it.
He hasn’t pitched for 17 days his pitch limit is probably in the negatives now.
========
That’s why it’s important to build him up and get him work, so he can get there. His efficiency wasn’t just a symptom of being in AA, it’s also because of what he throws and how he works.
Why not stay with Mitre for a while longer, while Melancon gets eased in and Aceves gets stretched out? I don’t see the urgency in getting the 5th starter, with Mitre giving us what he has. His ability to get DPs is impressive.
Because of Girardi’s correct decision not to use Mo last night, the bullpen is aligned to take the team through this series.
C.C should be able to eat innings tonight and hopefully Joba will throw a quality 6-7 inning start tomorrow.
Scott Kazmir may be on edge with some rumors of him going to the Angels.
Cashman is probably weighing a 40 man roster decision to add an outfielder.
For several weeks on this blog one of the dominant themes was about Jorge Posada and how he was awful catching and calling games. It was one of the more discussed topics I can remember over the past couple of years.
Given that it was such a big issue here I feel it is important to keep track of that issue because the only way to fully assess the claims is to accumulate more evidence over time. That’s not an issue that should be forgotten.
It was repeated ad nauseaum over and over. And the main piece of evidence thrown in around to back that up was “catcher’s ERA” and the fact that pitcher’s were shaking him off (specifically Joba and AJ).
One regular poster here went as far as to say that Posada had turned into a completly selfish player now that he was older and he was more interested in himself than the team.
This poster actually said that Posada was intentionally calling more fastballs – not because it was the right thing to do – but because calling fastballs would help Posada throw out baserunners now that he was older and coming off shoulder surgery. As “evidence” for this, this poster actually compared Posada “selfishness” to Ivan Rodriguez’s selfishness. It was well known in baseball that Rodriguez was so concerned about his caught stealing stats he actually did call more fastballs for his own benefit.
And as a corollary, this team was better off having Cervelli catch than Posada.
It’s interesting how we don’t here much of this anymore – nor have we heard many of the Posadagate members admit they were wrong despite the weeks of their shrill assertions.
At the time you could in theory argue that there was this evidence of “catcher’s ERA.”
But such a “statistic” is not only inherently flawed but is subject to small samples.
Well the samples are larger now. How is the pitching staff doing with Posada?
Specifically – how are AJ, Joba, and CC doing with Posada?
AJ last night got through that game because he started throwing two seamers to induce ground balls. Who’s idea was that? Posada’s.
AJ also credited his turn around this season after that Boston game to him sticking to the game plan he’s laid out with Jorge.
One of the biggest sources of tension between Joba and Posada for that string of games was pitch selection and tempo. Posada wanted Joba to throw more fastballs and work faster. Joba wanted to throw more sliders and kept shaking him off.
That was a major reason why so many lauded Cervelli – Joba never shook him off.
And Posada was right again. He was trying to break Joba of bad habits. And that’s been a key to him being so much better his last two starts.
In his last start Joba threw around 100 pitches. I believe 73 were fastball. He threw 15 sliders. That’s it.
So Posada’s game calling and catching skills have been important parts of both AJ and Joba turning around their seasons.
How about that.
““You argue with the folks making those remarks.
Cervalli did very well during his stay here, especially when Posada was out injured.”
Well, I’m arguing with you now because Cervelli was fine, but he’s not a ML starting catcher yet.”
You do not get it do you ?
I never criticised Posada.
I never put Posada down in favor of Cerville.
I believe Posada is our primary catcher and the team is better off with him.
All I said was that there is no need to undermine Cerville to support Posada. Is it that difficult to understand?
Whether you recognize or not, Cerville was a savior for the team when both Posada and Molina were hurt. Now that Posada and Molina are back, Cerville is in the minors where he belongs at this time improving his skills.
You support Posada all you want and he deserves it. But it is wrong to undermine what Cerville did. Now if some others are saying Cerville is better than Posada (which I am not saying), then engage with them.
Agree Erica.
And we don’t want to put him in CF. Those days are behind him. I’m one of the people who doesn’t think a little visit to the majors would torpedo AJax’s development – you tell the kid to relax, no one is looking for him to supply power numbers – just stay within himself at the plate and give us good defense.
Really, if we had him spell Melky from time to time and also Damon, he’d get some work without being looked to as the Yankees future CF (which he is – but in a limited role he could just relax and enjoy being part of a pennant race).
Also, AJax has a pretty under rated arm to go with his speed and leaping ability.
NEW POST –>
That’s a great post there, CB.
I also recall a report that Jorge told Joba “stop embarrassing yourself” in an exhortation to get him to attack with his FB. Jorge knows how good Joba’s arm is and he wants Joba to reclaim that inner conceit.
Now, Joba regularly credits Posada.
“You do not get it do you ?”
You’re the one that doesn’t get it! What’s important more than anything else is the Yankee team and all that negative crap about Posada or Cervelli doesn’t mean a hill of beans as to how well the Yankees perform as a team.
Whats said on this blog means absolutely nothing and if you don’t like what other people say about Cervelli then that’s your problem not theirs.
“You’re the one that doesn’t get it! What’s important more than anything else is the Yankee team and all that negative crap about Posada or Cervelli doesn’t mean a hill of beans as to how well the Yankees perform as a team.
Whats said on this blog means absolutely nothing and if you don’t like what other people say about Cervelli then that’s your problem not theirs.”
It is clear you do not get it.
You are either a kid or has a kid’s mind
Let us move on.
Once again I am not criticising Posada.
CB–
Gee, I have a different take on Posada’s defensive skills. Every time I see a passed ball or a “wild pitch” that was catchable, or a runner stealing I miss Cervelli.
Now I realize Cervelli is probably not our future catcher, except maybe as a transitional figure from Posada and Molina to Montero, the 19 year old home run machine, and Romine, who supposedly even knows how to call a game.
Re: Joba. I think maybe the rumors that he was being considered in a trade for Halladay may have served as a wake-up call that the organization wasn’t going to wait forever (or even for the rest of the season) for him to get his act together. Posada may deserve some of the credit. But for goodness sake, if you’ve got a 14 year (or whatever) veteran catcher in there, the guy should know a few things about the game!! Does Posada really need to be deified for that?
que pasa?