Wrapping it up from Tampa
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Jul 29, 2009 
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The Yankees are 11-11 in CC Sabathia’s starts. The big lefty is not happy about it, either.
“It is annoying. No matter whether I get the win or not, you want to go out and try to help the team any way you can and it’s pretty frustrating that I’ve been going out there and not helping us,” he said.
Some of it is CC’s fault. His ERA is a pedestrian 3.83. On a few occasions, he has lacked run support. Tonight it was poor defense. CC also admitted he’s been getting away with having poor control going back to the Minnesota game before the break. He’ll be working on that in the days ahead.
Meanwhile the Yankees caught a break when Jonathan Papelbon kicked away a lead in the ninth and Boston lost 9-8 to those not-so-plucky Oakland Athletics. The leads remains 2.5 games.
A little more on Chien-Ming Wang: He has a tear in the shoulder capsule ligament. I’ve been gathering information from doctors, his agent, Will Carroll and others and it sounds like this is the sort of shoulder injury that could keep Wang out deep into next season.
It has been a pretty brutal last 13 months for the guy. He was 46-15 over a span of two and half years and now his career is in jeopardy. This will be devastating news in Taiwan. Hopefully Wang can overcome this series of setbacks and return to form, be it with the Yankees or another team.
I spoke with him earlier and he was pretty down. Hard not to be in that situation.
Thanks to everybody for reading today. We had nearly 3,000 comments over the last 24 hours and 110,000+ page views. It’s great to see so many people getting involved in our community.
Bummer about Wang. He has been my favorite player over the last few years. He goes out there and quietly goes about his business. Hope he comes back to the Yanks and is effective after all this is over. Pete, tell him his fans are pulling for him.
Wang will not be resigned by anyone for more the pennies.. he is a injury risk of the highest order…
he gave them – zippo this year……
Terrible, terrible news about CMW.
And thank goodness for Papelbon’s blown save tonight and subsequent loss.
Let’s take advantage of this fortunate happenstance and get the series win, tomorrow.
Stuart: How to kick a guy when he is down. He gave them zippo because he was hurt. That’s a real classy comment. The guy was 46-15 for your team for 2.5 years.
stuart,
Who cares? Grow a heart, dude.
My thoughts on CC for those interested are on the blog–just click on my name.
Feel awful for Wang. Carroll was comparing it to Prior, Gooden, etc.
Not good.
from the previous thread:
“RT @mlbtraderumors: RT @TNTmariners Jeff Clement has been pulled from the Rainiers game in the third inning…. hmmmm”
anyone thinks the Yanks might have something to do with it? if so, Cervelli isnt going to be very happy about this.
Wang will be back and successful again.
The Yanks will keep him simply to play to their international fanbase in Taiwan. Good move.
Jeff Clement being pulled in the 3rd, either he’s being packaged or what me and GB were talking in the other thread has happened.
Maybe the Yanks traded for Washy and got Morrow or Lowe thrown in but took Sea’s worst contract in Jojima… Who knows.
Pete,
Who cares what Stuart says? The Yankees will take care of him unlike the Boston teams who dump their players, or like the Pats specifically, make them play with concussions causing serious brain damage.
Ed – almost to my quarter century life
July 29th, 2009 at 12:29 am
GB, who would that be? the next worse contract is Johjima.
————————————————————
Probably. They’re not happy with him at all. The defense and bat have disappeared.
Problem is, Johjima is owed 8 mil a year for 2 more years plus what’s left this year. Maybe the remainder of Bautista’s contract that expires this year
Wish all the best for Wang.
“anyone thinks the Yanks might have something to do with it? if so, Cervelli isnt going to be very happy about this.”
Kevin Cash is out for the year.
NESN question:
Should the Red Sox trade prospects to get Halladay?
How arrogant to not think you would have to give up any ML talent.
“Maybe the Yanks traded for Washy and got Morrow or Lowe thrown in but took Sea’s worst contract in Jojima… Who knows.”
like i said, if its true…Cervelli and his eyes isn’t going to be very happy about it.
Wang will be back.
Yanks won’t cut him loose – they invested more on a lot less (see: Igawa, Kei; Brackman, Andrew)
Why would we take on yet another catcher?
I doubt we’re the only ones in on Washburn.
Halladay’s scheduled to pitch tomorrow. JP supposively wanted to let Doc know his fate before this start….maybe he’ll know by his next start…
Rebecca,
isnt Chris Stewart is the backup catch for AAA now?
Run along Stuart.. and take your heartless clowns with you.
Sheesh. No wonder people despise Yankee fans.
Seems like the Yanks can add some players to the 40 man whenever they need to with Cash, Nady, and Wang can go on the 60 day dl at anytime I guess.
Stuart, I thought you were dfa’d from The LoHud….If not before, maybe now……What a chump….
“Why would we take on yet another catcher?
I doubt we’re the only ones in on Washburn.”
That’s why, we aren’t the only ones in on Washy and who knows maybe they stretched the deal.
BC: I want Washburn
SEA: take Joji and we might have something
BC: If I take Joji you know I want something for this Lowe or Morrow
SEA: IDK *ponders*
Sad news for Wang. The whole year was just off for him.
I know Pete probably won’t comment on this but is there any speculation that Wang’s injury is due to Cashman and the medical staff’s handling of him since the lisfranc?
If that’s even remotely the case, the Yankees will not non-tender the guy and will let him rehab and work his way back as a Yankee.
Thank you A’s. Sox lose, whew.
Poor Wang, get well luv.
How terrible for Wang. He seems like a sensitive guy & must be taking this pretty hard. Not only has he let his team down, he’s let his country down (in his mind).
Watching him this year, I was never sure if his foot wasn’t completely healed or was he just afraid to put all his weight on it.
hopefully the yanks dont give up too much for washburn if they trade for him…not worth it…the only 2 pitchers that will make a big difference for them are cliff lee and roy halladay…but it looks like the price is too high for the yanks.
…yanks should consider getting a reliever (lefty would be nice.)
“he gave them – zippo this year……”
Much like the zippo you provide to this blog with your inane, insecure comments that try to masquerade for angry knowledge.
Keep rolling champ! You’re the best.
Terrible news about the Wanger. I wonder if they will up the ante for Doc now.
this guy I’m hoping they land Lowe or Morrow w/ him.
man – at training for work and missed most of tonight – sucks about Wang, but thank you Papelbon..
im not going to say breaking news, ’cause im not sure if these people are making it up, but apparently the red sox just stole washburn.
Seattle game just ended …. good game for Washburn.
They closed the broadcast with “If this is the last we see of Washburn, he did a good job here”.
Terrible news about the Wanger. I wonder if they will step up and pursue Doc now.
They need to restrict CC’s pitch counts.
No one knows exactly how much damage is in a joint until they actually look inside surgically, so I would discount any expert opinion on prognosis until that is done.
“im not going to say breaking news, ’cause im not sure if these people are making it up, but apparently the red sox just stole washburn.”
where you got this from?
people are claiming they heard in on mlb network on mlbtraderumors…cant find it yet though
right now it’s false, it would be all over twitter if it were true.
it would make a little sense if the Sox also wanted Clement as a catcher
we’ll see… sounds like just a wild rumor for now
If you can’t find a link on a reputable site, ignore it.
I would be happy if the Red Sox “stole” Washburn and Johjima/Clement.
Didn’t Clement play in Boston before? Can either of the two Seattle catchers have a CS% > 15%?
Regarding the post on the previous thread in which Aceves admitted to shoulder soreness, I’m sure Cash is thrilled by his candor as the trading deadline approaches, whether or not it is serious.
it’s likely fatigue Aceves isn’t that worried. He knows his body.
“Didn’t Clement play in Boston before?”
nope..
Probably, but his sense of the strategic is less than 0.
m
July 29th, 2009 at 1:12 am
Didn’t Clement play in Boston before? Can either of the two Seattle catchers have a CS% > 15%?
————————————————————
That was Matt Clement, the pitcher that they got burned on in the FA market.
Matt Clement did. It was a line drive to the skull that prevented him from being a superstar with them, unfortunately.
Breaking news on Espn. Red sox are trying to get Roy Halladay
Ah, thanks to all.
“Breaking news on Espn. Red sox are trying to get Roy Halladay”
This is breaking news?
Jim Pir-one
Matt Clement did. It was a line drive to the skull that prevented him from being a superstar with them, unfortunately.
__
A what?
Richie, I was thinking the same thing about the reporting of Wang’s injury…..I mean who is the Yanks PR person as that report should have been kept under wraps…..Washburn pitching 1/2 his games at Fenway seems iffy if your the Bosox….As for Wang, the Yanks may do something similar to what they gave Jon Lieber a few years ago, while he rehabbed…..After all Wang is family…..
Brandon… I’M AWESOME ! BOSTON 8 NEW YORK 0 = 1st PLACE NYY July 29th, 2009 at 1:19 am
“Breaking news on Espn. Red sox are trying to get Roy Halladay”
This is breaking news?
Well it says the offered Clay and 3 others.
“Well it says the offered Clay and 3 others.”
which was false, even if true not enough.
Richie -
He took a line drive off the skull early in his first year with the Sox. I think it was Carl of the Rays, but I very well might be wrong.
Needless to say, besides not being a good investment to begin with, he was probably self conscious on the mound after that. I remember NESN making comments about him being afraid of shots up the middle and so on and so forth.
“Breaking news on Espn. Red sox are trying to get Roy Halladay”
Too late. Roy turned into a pumpkin at midnight.
Clay and just 2 others my bad
http://cardinals.mlb.com/news/.....8;c_id=bos
Does anybody remember the time the Royals first baseman Ken Harvey went to throw the ball home and threw it into his own pitchers head or some part of his body. I think it was Jason Grimsley, but I might be wrong.
the only ‘breaking’ at ESPN is the sound of Peter Gammons smashing his Buchholz and Papelbon bobbleheads against a wall
http://www.mixmakers.net/forum.....-26-a.html
Video here. Its a nasty one.
against the REd Sox
carl,
Can you be more specific? espn? sportscenter? espnews? espn.com?
If they’re reporting that “offer” that’s old news. If Toronto accepted that offer, then that’s *breaking news*
BD 2.0 I was drinking coffee
carl =
do you know where video of the Ken Harvey play against the red sox is?
M,
Espn news
Jim Pir-one July 29th, 2009 at 1:29 am
carl =
do you know where video of the Ken Harvey play against the red sox is?
what play
http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P1-95268886.html
from 2004
ESPNews? Good, have an excuse to turn the channel from The Office reruns.
I could confirm what Carl said is true. Im watching it now.
Ed -
what exactly is being said?
NESPN is basically going all Red Sox tonight, like Theo is the only GM in the world, might as well flash a red neon sign saying “WHAT’CHU GONNA DO CASHMAN, OUR GM IS BETTER, WHAT’CHU GONNA DO, RED SOX NATION BABY!!” *followed by a shirt rip*
Breaking News: Red Sox offered at least 3 prospects, including Bucholz to the Jays for Halladay
…that what its said.
Brandon,
watching WWE much lately? hahas.
Thanks Ed -
Did it seem to be any different than earlier or carry any weight like it might be enough.
Ill see if I can find it
Offered doesn’t mean traded.
It looks as if SJ44 was wrong about Buchholz. The Red Sox know he is a straight fastball 25 year old future nonprospect and are trying to swap him for Halladay. I figured they might wait until Josh Johnson became available in the future, or use Bucky for another huge splash.
The only thing more annoying than the NESPN love for the Red Sox is people constantly whining about it.
I’d be surprised if the Jays let Halladay stay in the AL East. If you’re trading your best player to rebuild, why would you want him on your rival.
Yep, double confirmed. It’s scrolling on the bottom of the screen.
The offer is legit, because they would confirm anything (which is why it takes them so long) before posting it.
At least 3 players, including Clay Buccholz.
As long as we win tomorrow, it’s all good.
All the ESPN hype means there’ll be no trade.
Kinzler may be out for a while with a hamstring injury. Texas may have issues besides pitching.
don’t know why JP would want that trash
I predict that someone will break the news via twitter, and it will be confirmed by Olney.
Cliff Lee will be confirmed by Rosenthal.
Heyman will just add to the confusion.
whew thank you A’s! and we need a starting pitcher, badly. NOT arroyo please.
I can’t find the Jason Grimsley video
Didn’t Bobcat say expect something by now.. where’s the meow report?
no, it was a hamster, weasel? Some kind of rodent?
no, wait. it was a….beaver!
lets hope tomorrow will have some good news for the Yanks.
Less than 72 more hours of dealing with Roy Halladay trade talk nonsense.
Let the countdown begin.
peter a Wang apologists.
he was not hurt at the start of the season or he or the yanks are idiots for pitching him.
so I am not kicking someone when he is down. thefirst 7 or so starts he was hurt??Really you telling me he was pitching with a bad shoulder? if that is the case he or the medical people that allowed him to pitch should be in big trouble..
the bottom line is wang stunk this year… sad but true..
his 46 and 15 record is long long gone. he will be lucky to get a job anywhere. that is why players go for the money, it is a cruel sport. 1 injury can change everything. Peter always shows whom he likes and cuts them slack; ie giambi who stole money from the yanks but was a nice guy to the writers.. whiptydoo, nice guy whole stole millions….
let’s put things in perspective chin ming wang made $5 mill this year. Yes he got hurt for the 2nd straight year and his career may be in jeaporday and again he is somewhat financially secure..
read the newspaper once in a while peter and see what a real tragedy is.
I am sure wang is a nice guy and all but baseball teams and most fans don’t care about that, and to act like I said something terrible about Wang is ridiculous. All I said is he will be hard pressed to find a job next year…..
that is not an outrageous statement or malicious.. All these players do not share there injury issues with the team and that is just dumb.. arod and his hip was bothering him months before he told the tream, why????????????????????It hurt him and the team, will they ever learn………
How about banning this moron?
stuart,
Just because you may have a point, doesn’t mean you have to share it.
It was just so crass. If you can’t see that, then you don’t have a sensitivity chip.
Baseball is not dollars and sense all the time, these are players that have grown up in the system. Not some jackass like Carl Pavano who didn’t deserve the time of day.
This is Wang, and he has a lot of fans. And even IF he’s washed up like people like to claim, he has a lot of goodwill within the organization and fanbase.
It’s baseball, not some fantasy league or video game. You sound like a cry baby. Waah, waah, waah. Wang’s injuries are unfortunate, but the team is finding ways to win anyway. So he is not hurting the team, currently best in the AL, now at all. Don’t know why it bothers you so much. If you can’t feel for Wang and wish him the best, just don’t say anything at all. Because it makes you look like an ass.
Depending on what Andrews finds when he does the surgery, there will be a lot of teams that will be willing to give Wang a mL contract with incentives if and when he is healthy and able to contribute on the ML level.
There are tons of selective leaks that are released to gain a negotiating advantage. ESPN is all too willing to be the RS’s conduit.
a member on SOSH regarding a trade:
“It may be unlikely that this trade goes through, but when was the last time Gammons was correct about a trade or broke any news of substance in the MLB?
I say this as a Gammons fan”
I think we get Washburn.
Toronto should insist on Bard in any deal
Apparently Bard is off limits, that’s why I can’t see the deal getting done.
Ken Rosenthal with a column up, saying the Yankees were “touching base” with the Blue Jays about Halladay. One rival G.M. made a nice little wise remark by saying “that means they’re all in.”
If it means keeping Halladay away from Boston, do it. Halladay/Becektt/Lester would almost be unfair…
Almost as unfair as Halladay/Sabathia/Burnett
rotoworld.com
The Seattle Times’ Geoff Baker has “little doubt” that Jeff Clement will be traded after he was pulled from Triple-A Tacoma’a game on Tuesday.
Baker also thinks that Brandon Morrow could be a part of it. If the Mariners were to move those two in the same deal, it’d suggest that they’re going for broke. Clement alone could be traded for another youngster capable of helping in 2010 and beyond. The Mariners have obviously soured on the 25-year-old Clement, who has yet to hit in the majors and still isn’t much of a catcher.
pat July 29th, 2009 at 1:24 am
“Breaking news on Espn. Red sox are trying to get Roy Halladay”
Too late. Roy turned into a pumpkin at midnight.
I LOL at this for about 5 minutes.
The Mariners announcers have been signing off late-July broadcasts with “if this is the last we see of Jarrod Washburn…” for three years now. He could be moving, he could be staying put. That line is no indication.
The Wang situation is just too bad. He gave the Yankees everything he had and then just hit a series of unfortunate bumps. It’s highly doubtful at this point that he’ll return to that 46-15 form, given what we’ve learned about this type of injury but if he does, I’d be willing to be it will be elsewhere.
If they non-tender him, it could be a very unceremonious end and yet fitting, given the way they treated him during arbitration.
On a personal level, it’s a sad situation given what we know about Chien-Ming’s character. From a baseball perspective, it’s an enormous loss for the Yankees, but they’ll need to move on operating on the assumption that the Chien-Ming Wang they saw in 2007 and 2008 is long gone and not coming back.
Aceves having fatigue in the shoulder goes back to how the Yankees used him as a starter in Minnesota on three days rest after throwing 40 pitches then another 65 in his start. Let’s remember earlier in the season when he was first used as a reliever, he had trouble bouncing back from normal soreness and being ready to pitch two days in a row.
IMO, the Yankees didn’t handle him well this season. The same could be said about Wang too. Time for some self-evaluation by the Yankee organization.
Washburn has been terrific this year. But given how he’s pitched so much better than he did last year, I’m still wary of giving up too much for him. For the right price, he’s certainly a serviceable #4 or #5 starter though.
Sorry for the Wanger – here is to a complete recovery – CC will be ok
the yankees should stick by wang & resign him.
it is their fault he got hurt.
onto pitching.
we need a sp.i wouldn’t empty the farm for halladay or lee but a bannister,washburn,etc… will do.
CC has no excuse for being this lousy.He’s being paid as an ACE,and gives up far too many runs~.
~Aj is pitching more like an ACE than CC.The creme rises to the top.
~A true Ace gives you more than a 50/50 chance of winning and,when he starts.His ERA IS TOO HIGH.
It’s a headache watching him always get lit up starting in the 3rd inning.Sometimes the run support,rescues him,even
after he’s given up 5.You never know what a CC outing will bring.
Joe let CC stay in and give up 6 runs,he’d normally yank a pitcher after they’ve given up far less.
The Yankees need to take responsibility for Wang’s injury. They admitted that they sent out a pitcher who was not ready to pitch. He changed his motion and put undo stress on his shoulder. Remember Dean.
Because of Joe and David E. the Yankees now have to give up both prospects and a boat load of money to fix this mess
To bad the Boss is still not there he would be firing some people.
I doubt the Yankees part ways with the Wangster, at least when George ran the ship they wouldn’t. He threw too many a life line in tought times.
Damon ,
CC isn’t right. He knows it. His command is off. They didn’t pay him to win a “Big Game” in July. He needs to be hot for the stretch run AND the playoffs. If you want to kill the man for a playoff performance, go ahead, but right now its pointless.
“Sometimes the run support,rescues him,even
after he’s given up 5.”
He hasn’t won a start when he has given up 5 or more runs. His offense and defense didn’t help him last night.
AJ is now the Ace? Lohud said he was done after Boston! Now hes the Ace! Derek Lowe > AJ Burnett.
Horrible news on Wang…hopefully he can have successful surgery and get back on a mound.
As for the Sawx and Halladay rumors, wasn’t it said that it would cost an AL East team 30% more?
Well if the MLBtrade rumors have its rumors out of LA correct in which the Angels were asked for this package…Erick Aybar, Jered Weaver or Joe Saunders, Brandon Wood, and one of either Trevor Reckling or Peter Bourjos.
I don’t see how the Sawx offer is 30% better than that.
I am all for getting Doc…minus Hughes and Montero.
It will be an interesting 2.5 days.
OK, Wang gave the Yankees zippo this year. And Heath Ledger made no movies. Slamming Wang’s pitching when he’s hurt is like insulting Ledger’s acting because he’s dead.
Good luck to Wang. If the Yankees non-tender him, Boston or any other big team could very well sign him on spec to rehab and then see what he’s got left.
Carl, The Yankees are 11/11 winners when he starts.look at the true Aces around MLB,this stat is different.
This is the second half,no time for excuses.The fans swallowed his crap before the ASG.CC’s era is close to Joba’s,who doesn’t have the innings pitched on his arm that CC does,and is TRYING TO IMPROVE.
Baseball is still a game of pitching,and CC is a headache to watch sometimes,YOU NEVER KNOW what you’ll get when he’s on the mound.
~If your satisfied with his performance have at it,I’m not!
CC IS STREAKY.Yankees need a solid ACE,that’s ot CC.
“To bad the Boss is still not there he would be firing some people.”
The Boss firing people did more harm than good as the Yankees should’ve won more back in the day except for the Boss’s meddling.
One more thing, the mood swings of certain Yankee fans based on whether the team won or loss the previous day is quite comical. Get a grip people and stop ragging on CC before you turn your attention to Joba today.
Cash is King
July 29th, 2009 at 7:09 am
“To bad the Boss is still not there he would be firing some people.”
The Boss firing people did more harm than good as the Yankees should’ve won more back in the day except for the Boss’s meddling.
———–
Glad someone else remembers it the way I do.
(I was a much more casual fan back in the “heyday” and remember thinking what a buffoon Steinbrenner could be. Much like people are commenting here about John Henry’s “Twitter” habit, you know? If there was Twitter back in the day, I wonder if George would have used it???)
Joba isn’t paid, $161,000,000. to screw!!
Back in the day it was at times embarassing to be a Yankee fan.
Between the firings and some of the trades made out of spite it was tough to take.
Damon July 29th, 2009 at 7:20 am
Joba isn’t paid, $161,000,000. to screw!!
Guys like this make it embarrassing to be a Yankee fan.
What a pleasant surprise to see the Yankees still 2.5 games ahead.
The RS blowing up their bull pen last night,setting them up for a possible rough time tonight.
“Damon July 29th, 2009 at 7:20 am
Joba isn’t paid, $161,000,000. to screw!!
Guys like this make it embarrassing to be a Yankee fan.”
I’m not so sure they are really Yankee fans as this site is infected with trolls.
You should be embarrassed of CC performance,as A YANKEE FAN.
As bad as it was to see the Yankees play and lose a game the way they did last night, I would prefer that to the way the RS lost.
I realize they were both a loss but to lose a game you should have won is much harder for me to take.
MsinYankee
Anytime Papelbon blows a save,makes my day.When the A’s tied it up,it was BEAUTIFUL. It helped me get over CC’s bad start.
Boston is in a quagmire. They need a hitter and cannot include Daniel Bard in a deal. He’s the future closer. They now must keep Buchholz because of Wakefield on the DL with his annual bad back problems and Dice-K in a spring training mode in Florida. Smoltz is of no help.
What they have to deal will turn no heads of an opposing GM.
Brandon this AM Ed Price (AOL Fanhouse) is reporting that Clement is part of a deal.
This is what he said
#Mariners are making a trade. Jeff Clement (pulled from AAA game last night) is part of a deal. Details when available
m July 29th, 2009 at 2:23 am
stuart,
Just because you may have a point, doesn’t mean you have to share it.
It was just so crass. If you can’t see that, then you don’t have a sensitivity chip.
Baseball is not dollars and sense all the time, these are players that have grown up in the system. Not some jackass like Carl Pavano who didn’t deserve the time of day.
This is Wang, and he has a lot of fans. And even IF he’s washed up like people like to claim, he has a lot of goodwill within the organization and fanbase.
It’s baseball, not some fantasy league or video game. You sound like a cry baby. Waah, waah, waah. Wang’s injuries are unfortunate, but the team is finding ways to win anyway. So he is not hurting the team, currently best in the AL, now at all. Don’t know why it bothers you so much. If you can’t feel for Wang and wish him the best, just don’t say anything at all. Because it makes you look like an ass.
———————————————–
Well said! Totally agree
don’t really care to see Halladay go to Boston. If it is pending, would rather see Cashman strike
a package of Chamberlain, Romine, McCallister, would be acceptable
No Monetero. No Ajax. No Banuelos.
No Hughes.
Tough break for Wang.
hate to say it but this is probably the end of his time with the Yanks, but more likely his career. Im sure he’ll give it another try as most of these injury cases do, but it will probably wont amount to anything.
I remember when Wang used to take the mound I felt like it was going to be an automatic Win. Tough break.
I could only dream about “vintage” Wang this year along with CC, AJ and Joba.. Good luck Wanger! Now to the reality of finding another starter.
vinny-b
But what if the ONLY way to block Halladay from going to Boston is to include Hughes and/or Montero? And what if Cashman doesn’t do it? What if he does?
Classic da**ed if you do, da**ed if you don’t situation.
vinny-b
But what if the ONLY way to block Halladay from going to Boston is to include Hughes and/or Montero? And what if Cashman doesn’t do it? What if he does?
Classic da**ed if you do, da**ed if you don’t situation.
Doreen:
simple. I let him go to Boston.
under no circumstances would i put Montero or Hughes in any deal
Hate the setback for Wang. My guess is he gets released in the off season. They shouldn’t pay him $ 3.2 Million (minimum arbitration offer) in hopes he gets healthy.
“Damon”, go ahead and schedule the lobotomy. Every moment you spend here is a lost opportunity to fix what ails ye’.
Not sure I get the Wang/Heath Ledger parallel, but whatever
The Blue Jays are delusional in their pursuit of mega packages for Halladay. I admire Doc as much as anyone, but no one is giving your four top guys and taking on $ 20 Million in obligations for someone they might only have for 1 1/3 seasons.
I’ve always liked Washburn, but I’m not sure the new Stadium is ideal for him since he’s more of a fly ball pitcher. Cliff Lee would be perfect, but the prospect cost would probably be astronomical.
“I could only dream about “vintage” Wang this year along with CC, AJ and Joba.. Good luck Wanger! Now to the reality of finding another starter.”
It certainly is the law of averages, huh.
What was the Wang/Heath Ledger comparison?
I think there’s a very good chance Joba will win as many games in the next five years as will Halladay. To me, he’s off limits along with Hughes and Montero. Everyone else should be part of the conversation.
To include Joba in a Halladay deal is old Yankees thinking. It solves no problems and makes the team older and more expensive. I admit, when Joba was struggling I lost perspective and was willing to pull the trigger. But now that his personality has returned so has his “stuff” and he’s just too damn good to trade.
I think the Yankees would be smarter to keep the youngsters. I know Halladay is Halladay. But I’m not convinced that a 32-year-old pitcher, even if it is Halladay, is a better risk than two 23-ish-year-old pitchers who have an excellent chance to be top-of-the-line starters (#1, #2 in a rotation, or a strong, strong, #3).
But they really do need to find someone else to sure-up the rotation right now. They are going to need to give CC a rest, as well as Pettitte, at some point going forward, especially if it looks like the playoffs are more a certainty than a possibility. Plus they already know they’ve got to maneuver Joba’s starts going forward as well. Mitre is okay, but only okay.
I really a torn about Swisher – what to do about Swish. He does add a certain something to this team, no doubt. But his outfield play – oh, man. To say it’s an adventure is a gross understatement. Is Hinske really that much worse that he can’t play a little more – split the job a bit more?
Is it sure-up or shore-up?
injury history is the deciding factor, which would lead me to make Chamberlain available.
I understand both viewpoints, however
I guess the odds of CC utilizing his opt-out clause in 2011 look pretty slim at this point…he’ll never see that kind of dough again on the open market.
Doreen
July 29th, 2009 at 8:25 am
Is it sure-up or shore-up?
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It is “shore-up”.
I agree Doreen, I would not like to give up either Joba or Phil, I think they can help the rotation for many years to come.
It was a nice surprise to wake up and find out the RS lost too.
take any yankee pitcher and have him pitch for 6 months in an arm slot 6-8 inches different than he ever pitched before and i would think it highly unlikely than there wouldn’t be arm injuries in 50% of the pitchers.
use your head folks; it was brain dead to have wang throwing in an arm slot that was 6-9 inches high all season. eiland and the yankees knew it was off and figured that it would come down eventually. this was repeated often.
it never came down to his normal arm slot. yet they kept pitching him in important games for both themselves and himself. so with wang going all out in the wrong arm slot , why is it surprising he blew out his shoulder ?
the good news is that cashman rarely makes the same mistake twice so the next pitcher that has an arm slot 6-9 inches off will get shut down and rehabbed until the arm slot gets normal again.
if that works for you, cashman is your man.
Thanks, GB-7.
And good morning.
GB7
Your up early today.
From some of the things being said about Dice K I think it’s a good thing the Yanks didn’t get him.
Some serious volleys being sent back and forth. Could be bad if some start landing.
Sounds like Francona and Farell are quite frustated with the whole situation. Not normal for them to be this open about issues.
Guy on Baseball Prospectus compared CM Wang’s injury/surgery to what Prior went thru.
With Wang being out for the year and Aceves nursing a sore flipper, Cashman will be seriously on the prowl for at least one pitcher.
“It was a nice surprise to wake up and find out the RS lost too.”
Yea, I was pretty sure they were going to win then I turned on gameday and it was tied 7-7. Those were the longest 20 minutes of my life… waiting after the game for the WRAP video on MLB.com seeing and hearing reactions of the crowd after they blew it.
Doreen
July 29th, 2009 at 8:42 am
Thanks, GB-7. And good morning.
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Good morning, Doreen and you’re very much welcome. I was happy to get an answer right without looking it up.
“Sounds like Francona and Farell are quite frustated with the whole situation. Not normal for them to be this open about issues.”
Close as I’ve heard Francona get to a legit outward demonstration of anger. He even dumped on a Globe columnist during his PC.
Farrell all but went the Dean Wormer route (“Fat, drunk and stupid…”) by suggesting Matsuzaka didn’t keep himself in shape over the offseason.
Anyone – is there any question that Joba and Hughes will switch roles toward the end of August to preserve Joba’s innings limit?
I hope the Yanks hang on to Wang and wait patiently for him to return. The guy knows how to pitch and could still be great one day.
MaineYankee
July 29th, 2009 at 8:44 am
GB7
Your up early today.
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Morning, Maine. I figurd I’d better get in some practice at getting up early. Something tells me that my hours aren’t going to be as “normal” as before.
Maine Yankee -
What did Francona say? I heard Dice-K’s “allegations” for lack of a better word, but did not hear the response from the Red Sox.
This is a pretty interesting situation, I think. You have a situation where two leagues approach pitching in very different ways. The US, where you “baby” pitchers and try to limit innings, pitches, overuse; and Japan, where they throw until they cannot throw anymore.
Kevin Kennedy said when he was with the Dodgers he participated in a program where the two leagues were trying to learn as much about each other as they could. He believes there’s room for middle ground. The US could probably stretch its pitchers out a bit more, the Japanese could probably stand to protect their pitchers a bit more.
But their schedules are totally different over there.
Do you discount what Dice-K has to say? Or do you let him do what he wants to do? At this point, they’re not getting much out of him. What if by letting him do what he’s used to doing they get the Japanese Dice-K?
However, one other variable is the pitching schedules. I believe in Japan they pitch once a week only, as opposed to once every 5 days. But I’m not familiar with their work habits on their non-start days.
It really is an interesting thing. From a view different angles. Not the least of which is Dice-K talking about it in the first place.
Prior was overused though, Wang wasnt.
Its amazing that Mark Prior is the template for what NOT to do with a young arm. I remember watching him in college in 2003 with all my friends from New Trier High School fron the North Shore of Chicago and they were saying how Mark Prior will be one of the greatest pitchers who ever lived.
I told them, joking around of course, that he was going to get injured and never pitch right again.
What a prophecy, huh.
At what point does the blame shift to Cashman over bring Wang back too soon or does this tear have nothing to do with the previous injury?
Doreen
Read this article and you can see how the RS feel about the situation.
http://www.bostonherald.com/sp.....t_his_way/
Randy,
I’ve been waiting for your post-Wang surgery comment for a while.
It didn’t disappoint but it may have lacked the vitriol I expected. I guess Cashman’s got you a bit jaded.
I really feel for Wang as it seems that this was the inevitable outcome given his handling. It’s hard to perceive any organization dealing with an asset the way the Yanks have dealt with Wang.
Anyway I’ve been following your Wang commentary all season and always felt you were spot on.
I hope Wang’s shoulder recovers and he gets another chance.
I just read this about the Dice-K situation, if anyone is interested.
http://www.boston.com/sports/c.....assarotti/
Remember the ESPN hype for Teix going to the BoSox???
Yea.
“OK, Wang gave the Yankees zippo this year. And Heath Ledger made no movies. Slamming Wang’s pitching when he’s hurt is like insulting Ledger’s acting because he’s dead.”
That makes no sense. Wang did pitch this year and he got shelled in 80% of his appearances.
Dr. Cox:
Prior only threw 211 innings in the ’03 season after throwing about 170 between the minors and MLB in 2002. Didn’t seem that abusive. One could take isssue with his use in September ’03, where he was allowed to go 120+ pitches in 5 of his 6 starts, after going 120+ only 4 times from April thru August.
The one arguement against Randy’s is that according to Eiland Wang was pitching correctly in the bullpen sessions but wasn’t able to bring it to the mound in games.
Was Wang changing things when placed in game situations? If so, then how could that be “Cashman’s fault”? If not, and Wang was pitching the same in the bullpen as he was in the games, then isn’t the bigger problem with the pitching coach not noticing it?
Maine Yankee -
Thanks. I just read your link, as well. So, all has not been so smooth with Dice-K from the get-go. Both sides have a point. With the exception, of course, that Dice-K showed up in camp out of shape.
Note to Randy l – their (the RS) strength testing program showed he was okay, though, according to the piece I link to. But he was out of shape otherwise.
Hey Pete, could you find out if Wangs shoulder injury is at all related to his foot injury and his rehab from it? The whole ‘lack of strength in his hips’ deal. Did that cause him to over compensate with his arm and cause him to blow out his shoulder or would this have possibly happened anyway?
Thats a major strike for all the interleague nonsense and pitchers hitting in the NL, atleast for me.
its interesting to see how suddenly there are so many boston prospects who are untouchable…
Bard, bucholz, bowden, anderson, westmoreland, casey kelly.. They might as well report that the whole AAA roster and AA roster is untouchable to prop up their prospects..
We heard the same about hansen, david murphy, fossum, sanchez, kason gabbard etc.. apart from murphy i don’t see any of the others doing anything good in the majors right now..
People CONSTANTLY overrate prospects when dealing with proven MLB talent. It is almost comical when somebody is not willing to deal a AA player in a blockbuster deal for a Roy Halladay type player (see Montero).
Any yet Gammons raved about Dice-K on ESPN Monday night, saying Dice is in tremendous shape and will dominate the league when he returns in September.
I’m not making this up. He actually said that.
Get rid of Swisher, before he costs us a championship game. He leads MLB for errors by a RF, his BA is dropping faster than a sky diver without a parachute, and his stupid grin after he strikes out kills me. He’s a clown that’s not funny anymore.
What Cashman and Girardi need to do is bring up A-Jax to play CF, move Melky to RF, bring up J-Rod to play RF, and have Damon and Matsui share DH. The Yankees OF defense is poor at best, and until Gardner returns, we need other options. Heck, Shelley Duncan can play a better RF than Swisher, and give you some needed pop.
Stuart sounds like a guy that should be a Mets fan, throw the baby out with the water, so to speak. Wang is a home grown Yankee that has contributed well thus far, and he deserves the support of the Yankees organization, as well as Yankee fans.
Uh, that was 46-18 Pete. And add the start of last year and CMW was 54-20 from May 2005 to June 2008.
Bill James disciples may claim that wins are overvalued, but good pitchers don’t end up 54-20 (Wang) or with stratospheric winning %s like .651 (Guidry) or .626 (Pettitte) by accident.
Give credit to the notsoplucky A’s: they scored all three off Papelbon with two out in the ninth, and the third was set up by noted speed merchant Mark Ellis (career-high = 14 SB, 2009 total = 5) stealing third to score on an infield hit to tie the game. And they scored 7 runs from innings 7-11 off the RedSax’s vaunted bullpen.