Today in The Journal News
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- August
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The Yankees did not get a pitcher at the trade deadine. Then Sergio Mitre made them regret it as he was pounded by the White Sox.
Jerry Hairston Jr., the newest Yankee, is valued for his versatility. This notebook also has update on Shelley Duncan and some roster moves.
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on Saturday, August 1st, 2009 at 9:15 am by Peter Abraham.
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Chad Jennings
Sam Borden
Josh Thomson
Isn’t Hairston and Ransom on the roster redundant? Why not get an outfielder and let Ransom go? I don’t get the infatuation with this guy.
Cody Ransom & Hairston on the bench? I don’t know what roster move they’ll make but if that’s the case then Shelly Duncan DFA.
I would think it would be Ransom DFA though.
They did get an outfielder. His name is Hairston. Duncan will go back down to AAA where he belongs. Shelley is not good enouh to play at this level.
The real question will be who goes when GGBG comes back. They could then get rid of Ransom, but they probably will keep Brett on the DL until Sept.
Pat M, we will never know what went down with Bannister, but I don’t think you can say for sure that it was all about the $$$. I still think the Royals very likely asked for a ridiculous package, like the Ms. Now if it was about the $$$, that is absolutely, 100% on Hal Steinbrenner – not on Cash. I got heat for criticizing Hal, but I’m sorry – if he would not allow Cash to make any moves because of $$$, then he deserves to be knocked. It’s great that he spent a ton of $$$ in the offseason, but in the offseason, everything is rosy and hopeful. You have to adjust to the reality of what happens during the season and it’s possible (IF the non-moves were about $$$) that Hal’s insistence on sticking to the budget will cost the Yankees dearly. In that case, he’s got to look in the mirror at the end of the season.
That said, I have no proof that the non-deals were about $$$. It’s pretty obvious from all reports that the Ms were ridiculous in their demands for Washburn (and they didn’t want to deal with the Yankees, that’s obvious. They didn’t even return the Yankees’ call – that’s just rude). I think Cash tried, but you can’t force teams to deal with you.
Joe should not have made that comment “we have no other options” in the post-game – blaming the GM is never a good idea. How about if Cash came out and blamed Joe for his terrible handling of Aceves last night, or of CC early in the season when he pushed him to 120 pitches?
Either way, the Yankees are in a lot of trouble. Their pen is back to being a mess and Aceves is on the brink of being unreliable again.
Even if they were inclined to do so, forget Phil being stretched out as a starter. I’m not sure why he’s having such a hard time, but once he hits 30-40 pitches, he really struggles. I think maybe he’s not as sharp as he was earlier, so maybe he’s having a reaction to being in the pen…….fatigue, maybe. After all, he’s never done this before – his arm isn’t used to pitching every other day/
M, don’t leave me hanging, lol. You said last night you heard something about AJ on the radio – what was it? Thanks!
with joba innings limit, the yankees actually needs 2 sp. And with bruney struggles and marte uncetainties, they need a good reliever as well. I do not know how you can get a quality starters and relievers thru waiver unless they are as bad as we have right now.
New day, new game to be played. Let’s win it
two straight loses and the Yankee fans go nuts. You’d think we were in last place or something. Get a grip people, the Yanks were never going to win the next 42 straight games whether or not they got Hairston or Halladay.
“With the bases loaded and two outs in the sixth inning, Jerry Manuel pinch hit for his pitcher. In a tight game, Manuel viewed the opportunity as a crucial one, thus he wanted a position player at the plate.
Except the player he used, Angel Berroa, actually had a worse average than his pitcher, Livan Hernandez. By 17 points. ”
we who have watched berroa all season with the yankees could have told manuel that wasn’t a good idea.
with the yankees struggling to find anyone in their system who can be a fifth starter, livan just keeps plugging along. it was a running joke with some last year that he was the worst starter in baseball, but i must say i feel vindicated by his continuing success as a valuable 5th starter who the yankees would kill to have.
as far as manuel making the wrong move in removing livan, did he even consider what would happen to the after game spread by letting livan in there early ?
the mets are going nowhere. cashman should at least check in on livan’s availability.
It’s not that we lost two games in a row. It’s the way in which we lost. We could have won both games, if the pitching was there.
Good thing we have cost controlled players in the minors, The Free Agency is very thin and by having young players like Hughes, Chamberlain, Gardner, Cabrera, Coke and maybe even Cervelli as a backup catcher.
This allows Yanks to trim payroll somewhat.
Bye Damon, Matsui, Nady, Molina, Hinske, Pettite. Oh and Hairston Jr as well.
Yankees trim payroll by like 40 million or a bit more and well, I can only see them going after maybe 1 outfielder in the Market and possibly a reliever which still lowers the payroll by plenty.
Good thing we held onto our prospects firmly. Cashman did the right thing, a waiver wire starting pitcher should be sufficient for now.
“Duncan will go back down to AAA where he belongs”
He has options?
So how bad did we lose the game last night? By at least 4 runs I bet.
I turned off the game when White Sox were up 4-3 because I though it was hopeless.
I was traveling yesterday so I didnt get a chance to read the blog much ( tried to use it on my cousin’s Iphone in the car, but the thread was way too long to keep on refreshing). All I can say is LOL. The comments on here last night were legendary.
New day, new game. Hopefully when I come back to my hotel room tonight I will be greeted with a Yankee win
I really hope (but I’m losing faith in him) that Joe does not push AJ today. If AJ is fine and his pitch count is ok and he’s not working very hard, no problem. However, if he has a bad day today and he’s struggling, he should not be left out there……..Bringing Duncan up here was a ridiculously stupid move. In addition to him being a terrible player, the Yankees could have used another arm…..yesterday AND today.
Dealings this month are significant because a player must be added to the Major League roster by midnight Aug. 31 to be eligible for postseason play. The non-waiver Trade Deadline ended Friday, July 31.
………………………………..
When a player is put on waivers, he must be offered to the other teams in reverse order of the standings, and if he is claimed by one of the teams, he cannot be traded. However, the team that placed the player on waivers can either withdraw the request in order to keep the player, or let the player go to the claiming team. The claiming team would then have the rights to the player and would absorb the player’s contract.
A waiver is a permission granted for certain assignments of player contracts. If more than one club in the same league makes a claim on a player’s contract, then the club lower in the standings at the time gets the player. If clubs in both leagues claim the player, preference goes to the club in the same league as the club requesting waivers.
Among the many goals teams try to accomplish during this period is to add a star player or depth at a position for a postseason push. One reason teams place players are waivers is to unload salaries.
With that in mind, this month could be busy.
http://www.mlb.com/news/articl.....p;c_id=mlb
AJ and CC are inconsistent.
Won’t surprise me a bit if they were to bombed and White Sox sweep.
Just mark it down now:
R*d S*x 0.5 games up by end of weekend.
sunny615, its not the losses so much as the weakness in the team that went unaddressed. Cashman knows the weakness, Girardi knows the weakness. Theo addressed some of the problems the Red Sox have without giving up much. The Twins became stronger, the Phillies became much stronger and they didn’t have the overwhelming need to.
With as close as the Red Sox and Rays are to the Yankees record, and with glaring problems that the Yankees have in the rotation – which will only get worse once Joba reaches his limits, it makes it worrisome that Cashman goes on the belief that something cheap can fill the critical roles.
How well did that work out last season?
They didn’t need to make a mega-deal, but to stand pat with the rotation has already hurt them. The bullpen is hurting right now as it is, one short start from one of CC, AJ or Joba and it will really show up.
One injury, no matter how short in duration, to a starter other than Mitre, and the race for the WC could be in jeopardy. (The division would be lost with just a 15 day DL stint by one of those three).
Yes Duncan has options. Both Peter on this blog and Mark Feinsand in the Daily News said it. Im assuming they both did there homework and know what there talking about.
BTW…..How do the Sox get Vmart for J Masterson,that was a steal….he would have looked good in a Yankee uniform for the next 5 years”
I’m still boggled about that return for Martinez. They must have been pretty pleased with their overall return for Lee, Garko,Betancourt and DeRosa. As far as having him with the Yankees… that would create a log jam.
—————————————————–
he would have been a bridge from Posada
whoever said Mirte was a good SP, he didn’t pitch well in the game he won,the guy stinks
The rest of the league definitely charges this organization a special ‘Yankees price’ in trades.
If this deadline didn’t convince you of this then nothing will.
Wasburn was traded for less than the price demanded from the Yankees. Same for Cliff Lee. I can’t imagine what JP wanted from the Yankees for Halladay.
The reason why GM’s try to extort higher prospects from the Yankees is because this is because the advanatage the Yankees have with financial resources. The gap between the Yanks and the rest of baseball is so large, the only way to close it is for these other teams to overcharge the Yankees in trades.
This is why Cashman holds prospects and signs big name free agents. It’s all he can do.
The Yankees really needed a starting pitcher at this deadline but not one blockbuster trade made sense for them. Not one was designed to be fair for both sides. That is very telling.
So which pitcher do you guys think will me a available this month..??
Betsy, the Yankees needed a player who would be able to play outfield. They didn’t know they would get Hairiston. Bringing Shelly up to fill that role wasn’t a bad move, as whomever they brought up would probably be riding pine.
Its a bad situation if the Yankees have to keep an overstock of relief pitchers on hand. That gives less back up and flexibility to the bench for pitchers would will get very little work.
I can be happy with the utility player although there were better players out there that could handle that roll, he’s a upgrade over what they have. The SP should have been addressed, at least bring a #3 or #4, Cash what are you thinking.
AJ and CC are inconsistent? LOL – well, CC has been somewhat so over the last few games, but overall? No – though he hasn’t been great. AJ has pitched extremely well for a long time now….They are terrific at the top of the rotation.
And I still don’t get why people are blaming Cashman, jeez. Yes, he should have traded AJax or Montero/Hughes for Washburn. Undoubtedly the Royals were asking for the same for Bannister – that would have been a terrific move. If there was anything Cash could have done, he would have done it. If non-moves had to do with $$$, there is one place to look and that’s at Hal.
Bret, it didn’t have to be a blockbuster deal. I don’t think when it came down to the wire, that the prices they were asking were still as high, not when you look at what was given up.
What did Cashman offer for Lee? It didn’t seem like they were in on any serious talks for him.
why would the yanks keep Gadner on the DL? Are you crazy, notto burst your bubble but Gardner is a good player. He is a offensive game changer when he gets on base and a great fielder.
the guy has 20 SB in 25 attempts and covers a ton of ground.
Yankee fans do not even realize who are good players, jerry hairston cannot hold Gardners jock strap as a player…..
with the players the Yankees will lose next year & looking at the FA market in 2010, I don’t know where the Yankees are going to replace the players they lose & another year with Swish in RF ? They are going to need at least 2 OFers & at least 1 SP along with RP for the bridge to MO.
If non-moves had to do with $$$, there is one place to look and that’s at Hal.
======================
If.
We don’t know for sure that it had to do with money alone.
In all honesty we don’t know what really went on behind the scenes.
randy l -
Livan has thrown a few clunkers for the Mets, but all in all, he does give them innings. And he’s healthy.
Some prospective, they’ve been playing at a very high level, they were bound to have a step back. Not surprising it comes on the road.
However, the pitching situation is very troubling. For three reasons. The first is Mitre hasn’t got it done.
The second is Joba’s innings limit. And the third is the AAA pitching options.
Bottom line, Cashman should’ve gotten another pitcher. Hopefully he can get it done in August.
if Ajax is a legit major league player the yanks will need a starter, 1 outfielder, and standar bullpen arms for next year. that is not much at all; the yanks roster will have cervelli at backup catcher, pena as utility guy, and all the young pen arms back including; coke, melancon, robertson, aceves. they are in real good shape for next year, this year and the starting rotation is the problem.
the 4 starters for next year are; joba, hughes, cc, and aj, and a healthy kennedy in AAA, with McCalister and others…they can get Holliday if they wanted and still reduce payroll $30 + mill….
they need starting arms for this year, at least 1…..
Aba, it was a bad move because Shelley is a bad player and because an extra pitcher is more important than an extra OFer. If they needed an extra OFer, Swish was not starting, so he was available.
Also, Hinske should be playing more to take advantage of his hot streak.
Aba, it doesn’t matter what other teams gave up, it matters what potential trading partners demanded of the Yankees. I absolutely believe there was a Yankee tax at work……
~Pete believe me Sergio wasn’t the only reason the Yankees regret not getting a #5 pitcher.The last time the (cough) ACE pitched was reason for concern.
~The cap tippin,awe shucks it’s only one game,we’ll get’em tomorrow,the Yankees are in first place,what are the morons,idiots,cry babies,worrying about,crowd,Well
It’s time for concern Now.
~1.5 games ahead,two more losses,then hope for the Wildcard!
~AJ and Joba are fun to watch.CC and Andy are like a box of chocolates,YOU NEVER KNOW what you’ll get.Sergio’s stats speaks for himself.
~CC IS MY BIG LET DOWN,he was lights out last year with the Brewers,that pitcher aka, CC hasn’t shown up in NY.
He’s paid as an Ace,but is pitching like an #3-4 pitcher.No true Ace has an almost 4.0 Era.
~He like so many others perform well before coming to the Yankees,to get the big contract,and now he’s here and get regularly lit up every outing,starting at or around the 3rd inning.
~Sunday should be a fun match up,but more likely a nightmare in the waiting.
~Remember the line from the movie All about Eve?
“Fasten your seat belts,you’re in for a bumpy ride.”
Betsy, with all the teams that are out of the race for this season, surely there had to be some pitcher that the Yankees could have gotten. It didn’t have to be a top of the line type guy. Washburn wasn’t the answer, and didn’t have to be. Upgrade Mitre if there wasn’t any other move to make and it would have helped tremendously. One pitcher who could go 6 innings without melting down could make the difference.
Do you honestly think that there wasn’t one such pitcher they could have gotten without top prospects?
Perfect quote from Pete:
“A.J. Burnett on Saturday and CC Sabathia on Sunday. This is literally why they get the big bucks.”
Lee talks ended when they demanded Hughes……….
Time to wrry now? WE’RE IN FIRST PLACE.
My God, sometimes I wonder what people would be like if this were 1978.
Yanks will get a pitcher off waivers.
Aba, I think if Cash could have, he would have gotten someone. I’m frustrated, too, because I don’t think the Yankees can hold up for the next two months with this kind of pitching performance and depth.
Form the article:
“”Moreover, players remain on the waiver wire for two full business days. If they are not claimed, they can be traded at any point, to any team for the remainder of the season. If a player is claimed by a team and a deal never materializes, a team will not likely place them back on waivers. When they initially place a player on waivers, a team has the right to pull them back at any time. But when a player is placed on waivers a second time, the claim is irrevocable. Thus any claiming team owns the rights.”
http://www.mlb.com/news/articl…..p;c_id=mlb
I’d like to know if I understand this correctly. I think this says that if a player is put on waivers ONCE IN THE NEXT TWO MONTHS and NOT CLAIMED then he can be traded at any point to any team in that period. Is that correct? If so it suggests that yesterday’s trade deadline was a lot of hype. That is, any player (like Roy Halladay) who has a costly contract can be put on waivers and if unclaimed can then be traded as the trade dealine had never passed.
Betsy, your post is spot on. I couldn’t agree with you more. We don’t know what Cashman offered so nobody should be jumping all over him, Girardi included. We’ve all been around this long enough to know that the Yankees aren’t going to shy away from a reasonable deal. We might not know actual details for a while, but everything I am reading says that for every toe another team offered, the Yankees were asked for an arm, a leg, and a complete additional body – that usually being at least Joba or Phil.
I was also really disgusted with Girardi’s postgame comments. He managed to throw just about everyone under the bus. He should not have belittled Cashman by referring to Mitre the way he did; he should not have belittled Mitre; and he certainly should not have belittled Aceves. He did talk about the team’s overall sloppy play, and he is right about that. They have played some sloppy ball. Posada was just about a disgrace out there last night in every aspect of the game. But so were a lot of players pretty sloppy in their play. Thankfully, that stuff can be changed.
I am hopeful that between Burnett and CC we can at least get some innings and refresh the rest of the pen – or something.
Finally, we have to remember the Yanks have been playing some awesome ball while the Sux have stunk out the joint. Since we should know that neither was going to be a totally permanent situation, we need to expect some equilibrium in both directions. What we don’t need at this point is sloppy ball and giving games away.
A.J., Joba, and Andy have all been lights out since the ASB.
It is only my opinion, and lots of people do and have every right to think differently, but I think CC is going to pick it up down the stretch. I really do.
Betsy, you seem surprisingly optimistic today.
“Yanks will get a pitcher off waivers.”
Not a question.
Betsy, Shelly is expendable. If another OF player goes down they are in big trouble. Damon could have gone down last night with that catch and run into the wall. They also needed a right hand bat because of the abundance of lefty pitching they are facing.
With Hairiston coming in it becomes moot, but the Shelly move is backup because Gardner is out and Damon seems always at risk for injury lately.
Chamberlain’s inning limit is the real unknown here.
Without knowing what’s in store for him for the rest of the season, how can anyone tell if they need a backend pitcher or someone to go with CC and AJ.
Afterall, let’s not lose sight of the fact that the arm they are looking to replace is Wang’s, who was supposed to be the #2 starter.
The infatuation with Ransom should be over and done with. Jerry Hairston Jr. has a better history and more versatile than Ransom could ever be.
“Do you honestly think that there wasn’t one such pitcher they could have gotten without top prospects?”
Likely not one that would have been worth calling the 5th starter in the Yankee rotation or he’d be here right now.
“Betsy August 1st, 2009 at 10:16 am
Lee talks ended when they demanded Hughes……….>
The Phillies were asked for their top prospects too, in the beginning. That didn’t keep them from making a deal that excluded those top players.
Every GM asks for the world at first.
Wait, I’m actually pessimistic – I think the Yankees are in trouble. I just don’t believe in blaming Cashman…..
“So how bad did we lose the game last night? By at least 4 runs I bet.
I turned off the game when White Sox were up 4-3 because I though it was hopeless.”
Bag, Pete offed you before and it will happen again. Enjoy your short life here. And hey hey hey, your fat juicer hero got caught! Cool beans.
Trish, what did Joe say about Aceves? LOL Joe should look in the mirror. Ace is coming off of a sore arm and Joe pushes him as hard as he did – ridiculous.
“The Phillies were asked for their top prospects too, in the beginning. That didn’t keep them from making a deal that excluded those top players.
Every GM asks for the world at first.”
You can’t be serious. Do you know how long Cashman has been at the negotiation table? Do you REALLY believe that he wouldn’t have kept at it if the other team hung in there also?
Wow.
BOF COURSE we’re going through a cold stretch. What did you expect? Maye we’ll lose the lead in the division. So? In a division like ours it’s all about hot and cold streaks. Since we’re the best Septemeber team, I should say we have an advantage.
Anyway, I predicted before the road trip 2 of 3 from the Rays, 2 of 4 from the Sox, and a sweep of Toronto. So we’ll see.
You guys say that the Yanks will get a pitcher off waivers.But who will be available then??any names?
Betsy, it kind of bordered on nasty. It wasn’t so much what he said as the way he said it. You know the tenor of his comments so you can factor that in. When he was asked about Aceves and whether it was possible that Aceves was tired or hurting (it appeared the reporters were a lot more sympathetic to Aceves in the way they asked the question) Girardi absolutely blew it off and said Aceves was fine and they needed three innings out of him and didn’t get it. Period. No calling him “Acey” or whatever crazy name he uses.
Maybe SJ will beleive that I’m not “skewing stats” when I say that Ace is in a slump.
Really creepy deja vu all over again with the 0-2 pitch from Ace there.
BOF is OF. BOF is kind of funny looking, though.
“Anyway, I predicted before the road trip 2 of 3 from the Rays, 2 of 4 from the Sox, and a sweep of Toronto. So we’ll see.”
Well, you’re still on target.
Abdababdaserser / Josh
Personally, I think the Yanks lost because of sloppy play more than bad pitching (altho last night’s game could have gone either way – sloppy and bad pitching). But it wasn’t like the Yanks didn’t score any runs. But given that we’ve had this all year and are still on top, I don’t see it as glaring as most. It’s definitely a problem, but I think something will get done to get it fixed. It’s just not the quick – Halladay – type solution that everyone wants.
Trisha, when the needs of the team are glaring, and have been for weeks, why shouldn’t Girardi say something? Mitre did stink it up, and hasn’t shown a single thing in the starts he has had.
Torre was stuck with the same problems from Cashman, lack of pitching. Once Wang went down the whole plan for the rotation fell apart, in fact once it was seen that Wang was not ready for prime time in the beginning of the season most of us saw that it was going to be a problem.
Months of knowing that the rotation had a hole in it, and what did Cashman get? A utility player, a part time outfielder.
Two starters ended up going into the bullpen because it was terrible. Two from the depth chart of backup starters.
They knew Joba had limits to how far he could go in the season. Heck, his poor outings only HELPED the Yankees out because it meant less innings, and yet still he is nearing his innings limitations.
Yes well A.J. has been money for a long time and CC is good enoguh to win any time we start him, so let’s see before we all jump ship.
I started a Yankees blog over at MLB.com Here’s the URL
http://highlanderhilites.mlblogs.com/ Just my own opinions, but I welcome yours and your comments. Cheers.
The only issue now is the fifth starter spot, and I’m sure Cashmoney is gonna get someone. I’m sure they have a plan for Joba, they just don’t want the world to know.
JMO, but you’re really fooling yourself if you don’t think Cashmoney was shopping around.
Trish, if that’s the case, that’s ridiculous…….I didn’t hear it myself, lol. I really didn’t watch much of the game and I wanted to avoid the post-game…….
And to make this really simple, really, if Mitre went out and pitched an incredible game last night, would there really be all this talk this morning? No. So all we can do is hope he gets as straightened out as he can between now and when Cashman gets someone off waivers.
Trisha,
you’re one mean spirited bi-a-t-ch, aren’t you.
Why so critical of fellow posters? May be it’s just part of your nature. no wonder you’ve been kicked off various forums.
1978 posts (I’d like to give an exact date but let’s assume this is back when they’re 14 games back:
trisha: Guys, come on. We’re not even halfway through the season. We won a WS last year. We’re a better team than the Sox.
Mr. Negative: Are you kidding me? Better team? Yeah, better teams always are 14.5 games back before the ASB! Sometimes optimism is just as stupid as negativty. This season is over, the team sucks.
Wait till they come to OUR house AGAIN: IMO we’ll make a run near the end for the division. But guys, relax. We have a lot of time, anything can happen.
A Poster: You people are crazy. This team sucks! If it weren’t for Guidry we’d be 20 games back! We have holes in everything, and the Red Sox are unbeatable.
Mr. Negative: Prediction: We end up missing the playoffs by 20 games.
trisha: Prediction: We win a 1 game playoff in their ballpark to win the division.
Mr. Negative: Yeah right. Bucky Dent will hit a HR before that happens.
Sunny, the poor plays don’t help, but when a pitcher gets to 0-2 and can’t put out any batter its a problem.
Damon stated that they were out on the field a long time. That points to some cause for the bad plays. Its why slow working pitchers usually have poor run support, and defense looks worse for them. Concentration breaks down the longer they are out there in an inning.
We’ve seen a number of poorly played games from the Yankees, and in those games its usually concentrated in one or two innings where the SP or RP couldn’t get outs.
Its not all on the pitcher, but it contributes quite a bit.
GB7 from the last thread:
I know, I picked up on it eventually. I’m not great at recognizing trolls, but I am trying.
Something tells me yanks may not make it even to play-offs,let us be realistic, the team doesnt seem to be hungry for championship ,at times they look having fun when they win against cheap or inexperienced or young teams when they play against , but then the yankee team as such doesnt seem serious about winning a ring , also the team lacks strategist on the top either,cuz 21st century yankee team so far sounds focussed on just ‘making money’ by selling tickets not winning championship .oflate even in the yesnetwork you hear it ,yankees game has become a part of entertainment business and not winning a ring business, what goes around comes around -yup the next ring for yankees will be 2083 may be-hopefully i wont be there to see it!!
Wait till they come to OUR house AGAIN-
Hilarious.
I was very glad that Girardi showed his frustration about Mitre being his only option at this time. If it were me and my job was on the line if the team doesn’t win, I’d be honest about it too.
Sergio Mitre should not be here any longer. It was worth giving him a chance, but this isn’t April and it’s not Spring Training. The Yanks are in a pennant race and there is an urgency to put the best team possible on the field. Sergio Mitre has no reason to be here nay longer. Cashman has done well,but it’s time for him to step up and react to the team’s most glaring need.
Thanks CM. I’ve thought about that for a long time. Kind of puts thing in perspective. People are freaking out when we’re a game and a half IN first place. Imagine if we were 14 and a half games out. Pandemonium.
” I didn’t realize until reading some comments that Brian Cashman had an obligation to make a move.”
I wouldn’t be too pessimistic because the Sox and the Rays have their own set of problems with their pitching staffs. Were all bunched up and have alot of games left to play with one another. So, it’s quite likely that the standing will change again before it’s all said and done. I just have to be a little better than them.
In the end, I think we’ll be OK. The lack of a decent replacement for Wang and Chamberlain’s innings limit, etc are concerns for me. But according to Joe, they have a plan on how they will handle Chamberlain, and I trust that they know what they are doing. Hopefully, this plan also includes a strategy for getting another arm so I can be a little less concerned.
Either way, It’s going to be quite a ride!
“if Mitre went out and pitched an incredible game last night, would there really be all this talk this morning? No”
I’m not picking on you Trish, but Sergio Mitre’s career record stands at 11 – 23 5.47 ERA 1.56 WHIP.
He is what he is. A bad pitcher. To expect anything more than he’s shown is unreasonable.
Wait Till They Come: I take it you weren’t here last year?
Rebecca-No, actually. I was not.
That must have sucked.
“Trisha,
you’re one mean spirited bi-a-t-ch, aren’t you.
Why so critical of fellow posters? May be it’s just part of your nature. no wonder you’ve been kicked off various forums.”
Yo momma is what you called me!
“Trisha, when the needs of the team are glaring, and have been for weeks, why shouldn’t Girardi say something? Mitre did stink it up, and hasn’t shown a single thing in the starts he has had.”
The best I can tell you is that it was enough of a departure from typical Girardi that it was almost painful to watch. Girardi does say things when the needs are glaring – to the team. As it should be.
Anyway, today is a new day. I don’t get stuck in the past.
GO YANKEES!!!
Wait til they Come: It was interesting.
This from Mike Axsia on RAB:
“Since when did fifth starters become so dire? It’s amazing, you’d think pretty much any team in the league would kill for a front four of CC Sabathia, AJ Burnett, Andy Pettitte, and Joba Chamberlain, but no. Yankee fans never have enough. I understand how important it is for the team to add a starter because Joba is eventually going to have to move to the bullpen to control his innings, but please, let’s not act like it’s the end of the world because the Yankees didn’t acquire Brian Bannister, Jon Garland, Doug Davis, or some other career back end starter who’s never lived the AL East life yesterday.”
“Interesting” in the bad or good way?
“He is what he is. A bad pitcher. To expect anything more than he’s shown is unreasonable.”
Works for me then. I’m not trashing Mitre so it’s not a problem for me. If he gets better, cool. If he doesn’t, cool. Mitre was called up when there was not the definitive answer we now have on Wang. They tried out Aceves and it didn’t appear to work. The whole forum was calling for Mitre. Apparently someone here (not I only because I didn’t know much about the guy) thought Mitre was the one to go to.
Que sera sera. I think you know me well enough to know that I am not going to get thrown off kilter by a few games and I trust that whatever needs to happen in the future will be addressed.
Dat’s all folks.
“let’s not act like it’s the end of the world because the Yankees didn’t acquire Brian Bannister, Jon Garland, Doug Davis, or some other career back end starter who’s never lived the AL East life yesterday.”
Perfect. Seriously.
I don’t think Cash thought ” Hey we’re fine, we don’t need a pitcher”
It’s more he felt the cost was too high and he was going to grab somebody off waivers.
We’ll see.
Bronx Jeers-I agree.
Wait: Parts good, parts bad. After a while everyone (well, most rational posters) gave up that the playoffs weren’t happening and just started rooting for Mussina to get to 20 and the Red Sox to suck.
BTW, you should check out the post I did last night on my blog. Just because I was up till 2.30 AM writing it =P
Wait till they come to OUR house AGAIN,
Mike is right. However, our 5th starter becomes our 4th starter after 7 more Joba starts.
That said, look at John Smoltz era. Mitre is what a 5th starter is, not very good.
“1978 posts (I’d like to give an exact date but let’s assume this is back when they’re 14 games back:
trisha: Guys, come on. We’re not even halfway through the season. We won a WS last year. We’re a better team than the Sox.
Mr. Negative: Are you kidding me? Better team? Yeah, better teams always are 14.5 games back before the ASB! Sometimes optimism is just as stupid as negativty. This season is over, the team sucks.
Wait till they come to OUR house AGAIN: IMO we’ll make a run near the end for the division. But guys, relax. We have a lot of time, anything can happen.
A Poster: You people are crazy. This team sucks! If it weren’t for Guidry we’d be 20 games back! We have holes in everything, and the Red Sox are unbeatable.
Mr. Negative: Prediction: We end up missing the playoffs by 20 games.
trisha: Prediction: We win a 1 game playoff in their ballpark to win the division.
Mr. Negative: Yeah right. Bucky Dent will hit a HR before that happens.”
You deserve a medal for that one!
“If it were me and my job was on the line……”
The media not the Yankees have said his job is on the line this year. If you believe everything they say Derek would no longer be SS, Tex would be playing in Boston, CC would be in LA and Mo would have broken down about 3 years ago.
“I wouldn’t be too pessimistic because the Sox and the Rays have their own set of problems with their pitching staffs”
That’s a prophecy and a curse. Both teams do indeed have issues towards the bottom of their rotation and/or bullpen depth. However, both of those teams will be in a position to block pitchers from getting to the Yankees via the waiver process. Not worried so much about the Rays in that regard due to money issues, but I would worry about Boston, who continues to see Smoltz struggle.
Every team has their struggles.
With the exception of the Anaheim series (which defies conventional explanation), this is the first time the Yanks lost two in a row since the beginning/middle of June at the Marlins.
All things considered, that’s not half bad.
So glad we clung to all the prospects like we did.
I don’t believe we’re going to get anything of value through waiver deals unless we let Boston pass us again and they can’t block us. They need starting pitching too. You think they’re gonna let that diamond in the rough slip to us over a couple of bucks when their payroll is the lowest it’s been in years?
I don’t understand why Cashman didn’t find a 5th starter. I just don’t get it.
Austin Jackson and Austin Romine best turn out to be Tori Hunter & Russell Martin.
It they turn out to be Gerald Williams & Chad Moeller, Cashman just screwed a team that was desperate for a starting pitcher.
The story better be that Hal wouldn’t open his wallet because that’s the only reasonable explanation for why Cashman didn’t trade for a starting pitcher yesterday.
Anyone know when we can expect a lineup? I’m getting ready to head to the Chi and wanted to know before I hit the road.
Is anyone really surprised? OF COURSE we’re struggling. It’s the nature of the beast. The Sox may overtake first. And it won’t matter.
It’s gonna come down to who’s the hottest September team. Normally that’s us. And anyway I could care less about the division if we make the playoffs.
Rebecca, I responded to your post. I still think the Yanks are richer than everybody else. Remember, we may have spent a lot, but we generate by a large amount the most revenue. My guess? They get a fifth starter off waivers than go on a spending spree in the offseason to buy an outfield.
G. Love: check it out:
http://www.puristbleedspinstri.....r-all.html
That’s where my line of thinking (albeit at 2.30 am) sits…reason enough to keep eyes and ears opened.
To say the 5th starter spot is the Yankees only pitching problem oversimplizes the matter. With Joba at 100+ innings the 4th starter will soon become an issue. If that 4th or 5th starter becomes Phil Hughes, then the vital set up man role becomes an issue.
Yes, the Yanks are in 1st place on August 1. If they want to still be there on October 1st, when it really matters, the pitching issues need to be addressed in the near future.
Brad, since we don’t play until 4, we probably won’t see the lineup for a while. I’m not sure exactly when it will be but you might be talking two hours before game time, or so. Maybe a little longer. Just a guess.
“Rebecca, I responded to your post. I still think the Yanks are richer than everybody else. Remember, we may have spent a lot, but we generate by a large amount the most revenue. My guess? They get a fifth starter off waivers than go on a spending spree in the offseason to buy an outfield.”
Ahh, but here is the fallacy. Just because one has the most money does not mean one has the most flexibility with it.
I’m drawn to comparisons with medieval and renaissance monarchs that may or may not be apt, but let’s just say, in pre-revolutionary France, despite all the glittering jewels at court, the monarchy was virtually bankrupt because they spent all of it.
At any rate, thanks for reading–and I totally respect your opinion =)
Once again the sky is falling. Look back to the Angels series the sky was falling then also. Oh yeah this time it’s worse blah, blah, blah.
I like this team. Barring any more injuries we are going deep into October.
I am probably the only one who believe Mitre has good stuff. It’s time for Eiland to earn his money and figure out what’s holding him back.
Aceves didn’t look right, but there was nothing wrong with that 2 strike pitch.
Brett the Hitman good post at 9:56
I am off to read Rebecca’s excellent blog.
Thanks Trisha, I guess I can always just check on my phone…
“I am probably the only one who believe Mitre has good stuff. It’s time for Eiland to earn his money and figure out what’s holding him back.”
I am happy to join your party! I trust your judgement so will remain on the Mitre wagon until otherwise notified.
“So glad we clung to all the prospects like we did.”
So you would have traded Austin Jackson for 2 months of Jarrod Washburn?
Just want to be clear.
The problem for the yankees at the trade deadline this year was the Ian Kennedy and George Kontos both got hurt with serious injuries.
Those were guys who either could have stepped into the #5 spot or been traded for help. They were far enough developed where teams would be willing to slot them onto their 25 man next year.
And as surprising as it was, I do think money was a big issue. Surprised me a great deal. But it seems like the team is at budget or close to it. They probably have some wiggle room.
But I get the sense that they are very price sensitive if they have to give up any talent of value at all.
Thus the emphasis on the waiver wire.
The yankees don’t make public statements for no reason.
And when Cashman was talking about the waiver wire issue two weeks ago he was pretty much setting the grounds for not making a trade at the deadline.
Same reason they leaked those 5 names to Heyman. They wanted the fanbase to know they made a real run at Washburn and Seattle was likely to decline.
pat,
Do you think that if the Yankees dont reach the playoffs Girardi is safe?
The Rangers are only 2 games behind us in the loss column. If the Yanks dont win the Division and the Rangers or some other team wins the Wild Card, it’s more than reasonable to sense Girardi will be fired. That’s not the media. That’s the history of the New York Yankees. Buck Showalter did a fine job. But he didnt give management the feeling that he could put the team over the top. That very well could happen to Girardi. He’s in a tough spot.
Washburn for AJax? I think Cash Money did the right thing. JMHO but that is too much for a #5 pitcher
If we are out of the playoffs, as Girardi has often admitted he will be fired.
Dude, when you consider that in only his third year managing EVER, Girardi has the Yankees with nearly the best record in the AL, it’s hard to make a case that he should be fired.
If he wins less than he did last year, that’s one thing, but what happens if he wins 95 games and doesn’t make the playoffs?
Is that still not enough? Because frankly that’s ridiculous.
this is a re-post…i wrote this last nite does anyone know about how the innings limit work
would like to get a confirmation on this….Especially from Pete…The Joba rules in place this year is about 40 innings more then the last year or in professional ball/college ball?
between the minors and pros
2008- 100.1 innings
2007- 115.2 innings including the playoffs
2006- 123.1 innings College and Hawaii League
2005- 164 innings College and Summer Ball
below are the links check for yourself…With that said, i believe around 175 including playoffs is his magic number
http://www.huskers.com/ViewArt…..LID=107702
http://www.thebaseballcube.com…..lain.shtml
Could Meche be available…?
Rebecca,
I hope you dont think I believe Girardi should be fired. I don’t. I didnt like seeing Showalter fired either. But it’s easy to see how it could happen if he doesnt at least make the playoffs. I don’t blame him for being frustrated about the back of the rotation. He’s in a pickle with Joba’s innings limitations,no qualified 5th starter and Bruney’s ineffectiveness which impacts Phil Hughes’ role.
CB with another smart post.
Question any chance Montero gets a look next year? He is kicking butt at AA and will wind up with about 300 AB’s down there?
What about Ajax next year? The plan is to have him in the majors to start next year isn’t it? If they let damon, matsui, and nady walk they need ajax and a proven OF for next year. I am thinking Holliday will resign with STl. he is from Oklahoma and STl is a great baseball town..
What are there options???
Bruney not producing has really hurt them, caused Hughes to be in the pen and that has obviously hurt the rotation now that Wang is out..Can Melancon progress fast enough to be a 7th or 8th inning guy?
“So which pitcher do you guys think will me a available this month..??”
roger in amsterdam-
i’m guessing sergio mitre
BTW texas will fade they have to go on the road for a long long time…Tampa is the team to worry about not Texas…
Randy,I’m don’t like that option..
As we sit and hope for a waiver deal keep this in mind. You cannot get waivers on a player with a no-trade clause or any 10 & 5 type so right there the number of potential pitchers drops significantly.
The type of starting pitcher that clears waivers is usually overpaid and underachieving. In this economic situation the overpaid part is even more significant. However, if the Steinbrothers truly are holding the line on $$$ the Yanks may not even be able to put in a claim for fear of being stuck with the contract.
If they truly had a deal for Bannister and had to demand money from the Royals that’s disgraceful considering the revenue this team enjoys.
Like Pete I am increasingly suspicious about how they are handling Hughes… two straight outings of 30+ pitchers looks a lot like stretching a guy out to me. His next outing will be extremely interesting.
Tarheelyank — Mitre has mediocre stuff. He’s a one trick pony and when his sinker is on he’s adequate. His breaking ball might be the worst I’ve seen all year which is why he won’t throw it for strikes. He also appears to be completely devoid of mental toughness.
“CB with another smart post.”
Really? That’s funny.
In the past you’ve called me a moron and said I was amongst the dumbest posters on the board.
Yanks face Burhle, Halladay, Beckett and Lester in the next 10 days or so? They could be in 3rd place by the end of next week and a half. Pete, aren’t you the one yesterday said calm down, Yanks are in first place, no need to pick up pitching??
CB,
We’re all giving you a pass this time. Joking!!! Keep them posts coming,they’re great:)
roger-
i meant available to other teams
CB your post today was thoughtful so let’s leave it at that.
Montero next year can he play in the majors or is that wishful thinking?
Does it look like the yanks are counting on AJax to contribute next year and even if he does don’t they need 1 stud OF for next year?
Melancon do you see him being important the rest of this year?
stuart:
AJax probably starts next season up here. Montero’s a tougher call. We’ll know more at the end of the year, but it seems like it might reach a point where what Montero has yet to learn at AAA is minimal when compared with what he could be learning at the major league level
I am totally confident that Yankees are going to make the playoffs.
But I want to say that I am equally confident that Girardi would not be fired if they did not.
JMO
even morons get lucky once in a while ! lol
rdm’s panic posts are classic.. man he cries wolf daily….
montero’s #’s are sightly down at AA vs single A but that is expected…I mean he is a hitting machine…SOme DH next year????
Panic, Stuart? In the games I mention, w/the pitching…I think Yanks will win maybe one of them….what say you?
Hope they win today or they will likely get swept…
Re: Girardi’s post game comments.
I just got the feeling he was disgusted in general. He never throws people under the bus, and up until last night he’d really gone out of his way to not seem p’d off after a bad game. Last night had to be frustrating.
If you heard Johnny Damon, one could say he also “threw Mitre under the bus” because he said what I was thinking, that Mitre basically took his team out of the game from the get-go. They got off to a quick 3-0 lead, and Mitre proceeds to give it all back plus, and slow-paced, coma-inducing style. He didn’t even give the team 5 innings, which made the bullpen severely over-extended.
I suspect Girardi was upset that he even needed to think about getting 3 out of Aceves, and he did say it really came down to that one bad pitch, the 0-2 2-out single.
I think with the way Girardi has really been a cheerleader for his guys all year you can allow him a night or two of frustration. It was an aggravating game last night on all fronts.
the yanks counting on bruney to be anything more then like farnsworth looks like a bad mistake at this point.. the lack of 8th inning guy other then hughes apresently is a problem, can Melancon fill that hole now? The guy has produced everywhere and is 24 is that asking to much??
if they solve the 8th inning issue then of course they can move hughes back into the rotation…
I think COke is OK but not a mike stanton get lefty out guy, is that accurate?
Roberson, Bruney, Ace, a bullpen for the playoffs?????
Steve B…
I too am concerned about the Sox grabbing someone before we have a chance. But, I don’t see any way around that unless we drop below them in the standings again (I am NOT wishing that to happen).
People here have wondered who might be available through waivers… Well, you can look at the 2010 free agent list for some candidates. If you do that, you will see names like Rich Harden, Tim Hudson, and Kevin Millwood. All of these guys are pitching for teams in contention. In the case of Hudson, he is rehabing from TJ survey last year. If their teams fall out of contention, they may be candidates for waiver deals.
I’m especially interested to see what happens with Millwood because he has a clause that kicks in a $12 M option for 2010 if he pitches 180 innings this year. If the Rangers drop out of contention, he could become available and will likely make that limit if he continues to pitch well. Would the Sox take on his $12M salary for 2010?
Aside from the 2010 FA list, at this time, I think all we can do is keep an eye on the standing over the next couple of weeks.
rdm seriously go back and read your posts, panic is a nice word.. pathetic may be more appropriate. it is a miracle the yanks are 21 games over 500 in your world……..
to say you area glass is half empty person would not be accurate you are a glass has a leak in it person…
CB,
I haven’t seen Austin Jackson play yet. When Gardner went down the Yankees didn’t promote him to give us a glimpse of him and his potential as a pro playing against pro’s so I have no idea other than spring training what he can do.
Everyone in here thinks he’s going to turn out to be the next Bernie Williams, but I think back to guys like Ruben Rivera who was supposed to be the next Mantle and DiMaggio not too long ago and who didn’t turn out to even be a useful backup.
Someone posted earlier how Gene Michael wouldn’t trade Mark Hutton and Domingo Jean for Randy Johnson. How’s that one look now?
This team needs a pitcher. It’s not because of what happened last night. It’s because of what happened months ago when Wang fell apart.
Cashman has known for a long time he’s needed another pitcher and this was when Andy and Joba were scuffling.
I don’t accept that he couldn’t find something before yesterday.
I really need to know the Stein’s shut off the money faucet.
If he could have had Washburn for Jackson straight up it would not have been the end of the world. We would have had a reliable starter who is having a great season and is pitching for his next big contract to help stabilize the rotation. I’m not against rentals if it gets you to the post season and beyond.
So again, he’s betting the house on Jackson turning into more than a complementary player.
I don’t bet the house on prospects who have not yet made it to the majors. I think Montero is exciting, but for all we know Montero could be Matt Nokes.
This team needed a pitcher and now we’re dealing with the waiver rules which take the control out of your hands as GM. You have to hope players fall to you and they don’t get pulled back.
Pitching, pitching, pitching. Yanks should have given up to get Lee (who is as good as Halladay) or Halladay, period if they wanted to win this year. Nice game Lee last night.
“The problem for the yankees at the trade deadline this year was the Ian Kennedy and George Kontos both got hurt with serious injuries.
Those were guys who either could have stepped into the #5 spot or been traded for help.”
cb-
wasn’t another problem that hughes and aceves were the 6th and 7th starters in the winter and turned into short relievers so two potential starters were taken off the board to plug the bullpen?
Drive 4-5
I dont think it’s as cut and dry as some make it sound.
Circumstances sometimes affect personnel decisions and patience and contracts sometimes win out.
“You cannot get waivers on a player with a no-trade clause or any 10 & 5 type so right there the number of potential pitchers drops significantly.”
I don’t think that’s true. I thought they had the right to veto a trade but guessing not many would if they thought they had a chance to play for a team with postseason expectations.
With the team Girardi has he should make the post season. If he doesn’t, I think he will be fired.
Don’t rhink for a moment ,that the other teams don’t recognize:
~CC is hit regularly.
(maybe his last outing will motivate him to a better performance Sunday.)
~Andy has trouble pitching in Yankee stadium,can pitch a good game and still get a no decision.
~Joba is almost at his innings limit
~Yankees have a need for 2 pitchers(because of Joba’s limit)
~Every time the Wht sox get on base,they are a threat.
~Can you HONESTLY,say the same for the Yankees,they’re frequently LOB.
Our offense isn’t really our issue. We’re number one in the league in runs scored.
If Bruney is released I’ll be happy,Phil would still be in the rotation if he didn’t have to be Mo’s set up guy.
I love it when the star heads syt our team leads in runs scored in the majots.EXCEPT when the Yankees can’t buy a run.They lost a game 1-2,and 5-10,No run support.
I would say that 5 runs in a game is getting run support. Giving up 10 runs was the problem last night. Pettitte got no run support the night before.
“Lee talks ended when they demanded Hughes……….>
The Phillies were asked for their top prospects too, in the beginning. That didn’t keep them from making a deal that excluded those top players.”
actually the Phillies top two prospects coming into this season were Carrasco(who the Phillies didn’t want to give up for Johan)and Marson(same)….their newest sexiest prospects are Dominic Brown and Drabek(seems Amaro is man crushing there…)the best arm in the Phils system was considered to be Knapp(not Happ who despite his success at the major league level so far is considered more of a middle to back 3/4 starter type and everyone loves the ss Mcdonald who Theo’s been trying to get from the Phils for sometime but balked at giving up Bucholtz,Bard or the 1b the Sox have at AA….the point being Cleveland actually got 4 of the Phils top 7 or 8 prospects and heading into the season these 4 were top 6 in the Phils system….
as far as a 5th starter the Yanks could get how about calling up the Pirates and getting Ohlendorf back…he’s got almost 10 wins with the pirates he’s young cheap and a hell of alot better than the Bannisters and Arroyos and Harangs you guys are crying over….that Nady/Marte trade although the right move at the time sure has turned out to be a bad one! and when Tabata makes the majors second half of next year i got a feeling it’ll look even worse