Wanted: A No. 5 starter (and soon)
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Aug 01, 2009 
Print This Post
| 
Email This Post
Sergio Mitre to date:
3 starts
13.2 innings
24 hits
13 runs
12 earned runs
3 walks
6 strikeouts
That looks like a one-way ticket back to Scranton. But the Yankees have Kei Igawa, Josh Towers, Jason Hirsh, Romulo Sanchez and young Ivan Nova in Scranton. When the K-Man is your ace, that’s trouble.
“I’m not sure that we have a lot of options at this point,” Joe Girardi said, quite correctly. “(Mitre) has got to get it done for us.”
Translation: I sure hope Brian Cashman comes up with a waiver deal for a warmer body.
The other concern is the general lackadaisical play of the last two nights. There were some physical errors on Thursday. OK, those happen. But there were inexcusably bad plays tonight. Melky threw to the wrong base. Jeter and Posada can’t cut down a double steal. Cano can’t make an accurate throw home. Aceves throws an 0-2 pitch over the plate with the bases loaded and two outs.
Girardi was steamed afterward but held his temper when he spoke to the media. He doesn’t like coming back to Chicago and having his team look like a bunch of ham-and-eggers.
A.J. Burnett on Saturday and CC Sabathia on Sunday. This is literally why they get the big bucks.
With Roy Halladay waiting for them on Tuesday in Toronto, the Yankees need to get some W’s here in the Windy City soon.
————
I’d like to take this opportunity to thank you for your patronage. Friday was a record-setting day of blog traffic with 3,500+ comments posted and nearly 200,000 page views recorded. This blog is a living community of Yankees fans and it has never been more vibrant.
jon garland
great work pete…best blog in the business
HUUUUUUUUUGHES
Jeremy Bleich? Seven shutout innings tonite for Trenton.
““I’m not sure that we have a lot of options at this point,” Joe Girardi said, quite correctly. “(Mitre) has got to get it done for us.””
This worries me a bit.
Both Posada and Matsui’s hitting slump are to blame for the unknown loss.
Of course Mitre is in desperately need to be replaced. He is like a pitcher for BP, and velocity is so low.
To be quite honest I’d rather have Igawa starting rather than Mitre.
REPOST**
“of course hes been better in the pen this year. id be a fool to argue otherwise. but i think its riskier to give mitre consistent starts for the rest of the season that could be going to hughes, than it is to give guys like bruney or melancocn a chance to succeeed in the pen if hughes takes mitres spot.”
Mitre is a #5 SP what are you expecting there? Plus lets say Yusse goes into the rotation, you realize when he doesn’t give length it’s going to tax the BP right?
Scenerio #1 Yussse can’t get out of the 5th, 4-1 runners on corners, to the BP, that effects who relieves tomorrow too.
Scenerio #2 CC Sabathia or Andy Pettitte goes 6 1/3 RISP 1 out #2, 3, 4 of the opposing teams lineup is up.
You mean to tell me you’d trust
Melancon
Bruney
D-Rob
to get that ball to Mo?, these are the risks you take, oh but I bet your wondering why not Aceves lets say he was used for 2 innings the start before, where’s Coke? it’s not the 8th yet and the first 2 batters one is a RHB and the next is a switch hitter. Your options are Melancon, Bruney, D-Rob, now I love Melancon but he’s just not that experienced, blame GI Joe for that, D-Rob isn’t reliable, Who is Brian Bruney? Are you surrrrrrrrre you’d take that trade off now? mind you we play in the AL and the race will get more hairy, teams will play harder, offenses will look to score and force things to happen in the later innings, you’d take that trade off?
Yanks are doomed. Joba has a 140 inning limit. Mitre stinks. This is the Yankee team. Cashman wont get anyone (unless its Sidney Ponson).
Yanks might be headed for a 2008 collapse.
Tough loss, lets go for the split. Yanks took 2 out of 3 from the Rays if they can split the Sox and Jays that’s a successful road trip right there.
Cashman will be fired after this season…bank on it.
Y’all see Cliff Lee with Philly? Complete game, only 1 run.
Looks like Rube made a great trade
booga, you can’t just make stuff up. OMG WE’RE DOOMED ONLY 49 GAMES LEFT…
The yanks didn’t need a pitcher they needed to trade for another utility player. Once again Cashman drops the ball.
I am going to bed. The Yankees have taken up too much of my night already. Bad bad day for the Yankees.
Thanks cashman for doing NOTHING
victor martinez has thrown out 25% of base stealers and Varitek only 17%..
man when the yanks lose ugly it bums me out… I really believe not having Gardner around hurts. The pirate trade last year for nady and marte really looks bad now. thye gave up ohlendorf who is better then Mitre and 3 other questionable pieces.
Marte only pitches poorly for the yanks, he has given them nothing this year. wang and kennedy out for the year at this point has hurt a ton…you have to expect pitching injuries so did they not have enough contingencies in place???
I dislike AJ Pierzynski as much as any player in the game, he is a dirty player and a punk…
the yanks should DFA Ransom he does not deserve to stay on the team, Duncan dominated AAA and deserves a bench spot over Ransom….
“Yanks are doomed. Joba has a 140 inning limit. Mitre stinks. This is the Yankee team. Cashman wont get anyone (unless its Sidney Ponson).”
Doubt Joba is leaving the rotation, it’ll likely be an IP/P count type thing.
Waivers will have some good backend SPs available, teams are looking to unload unnecessary $$$ and the waivers will be used for that.
The Yankees cant beat teams with the word “SOX” in its name
I wouldn’t worry too much. Boston’s rotation has more questions than the Yankees. This rotation is still sold 1 through 4. There is a waiver wire claim out there yet. Mitre just needs to give them one or two more starts.
I’ll say it again: Under NO circumstances whould the Yankees try Kei Igawa.
Dice-BB’s second coming is NOT what the Yankees need.
Girardi said that Joba will be taken out. 140 IP is the number.
yeah thanks cashman for doing nothing… aside from assembling the greatest team on earth. and how dare you let wang injure himself, obviously that was his fault too…
“victor martinez has thrown out 25% of base stealers and Varitek only 17%..”
Victor is hitting what .192 since May? he’s also going to piss off alot of the players there, word already is that Youk and Tek aren’t happy about it.
Josh Towers next on the Yankee list.
The Yankees now believe Kei Igawa is best suited to be a left-handed specialist, not a starter, in the majors.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08.....38;emc=rss
Please explain the waiver wire process. I understand that each team in reverse order of record in the respective league gets a crack at a player. If a team claims a player, and the player is not pulled back the claimee can sign the player-just take on the salary? Or do they need to make a trade?
Yankees are not the greatest team on earth.
booga do us a favor and go back into your basement …..
Cashman is laying in the weeds….he will be ready to pounce when Ponson or Tim Redding get released.
Whoa. 140 was uttered? That really changes things. If it’s true, stretch out Phil because he needs innings, and let Joba set-up.
Mitre is frustrating to watch. He has terrific movement on his pitches, but just leaves too many of them up in the strike zone. I may be the only one, but I actually believe he can be effective if Eiland can just get him to keep the ball down. But that’s probably easier said than done.
“Girardi said that Joba will be taken out. 140 IP is the number.”
He never said that. Michael Kay said that, no one else said that, all GI Joe said is they have a plan.
“Victor is hitting what .192 since May? he’s also going to piss off alot of the players there, word already is that Youk and Tek aren’t happy about it.”
Do they know what the RS organization does to vets taht are not happy?
If you believe Joel Sherman’s reporting, the real issue is not Cashman’s lack of dealing at the waiver wire. It’s Hal Steinbrenner. He is taking a hard line on adding new payroll. Hal may need to see it with his own eyes — another couple of failed starts out of the No. 5 position — before he’ll agree to cut the check for a waiver-wire pickup.
Mark H August 1st, 2009 at 1:14 am
The Yankees now believe Kei Igawa is best suited to be a left-handed specialist, not a starter, in the majors.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08…..mp;emc=rss
I’d rather have Jim Abbott come out of retirement.
Cashman would not get Brian Bannister because they wouldnt pay the rest of his salary which was like 650 K. Come on, the steinbrenners have that buried under their sofa cushions. All of a sudden Cashman is Oliver Twist.
“The Yankees now believe Kei Igawa is best suited to be a left-handed specialist, not a starter, in the majors.”
I said that two years ago. He might be effective out of the pen when he doesn’t have to face the line up 3 times through.
“Cashman would not get Brian Bannister because they wouldnt pay the rest of his salary which was like 650 K. Come on, the steinbrenners have that buried under their sofa cushions.”
Negative it was b/c they wanted a high prospect. Where are you getting your info?
Hal Steinbrenner will eventually become the next Carl Pohlad.
Not getting a fifth starter was disappointing. But to everyone in the game post attacking Cashman for not doing anything….Really?
I wanted Jerrod Washburn. I thought he’d make a perfect addition to the team, and while his ERA would probably rise a bit playing in a homer friendly park, he certainly would be an upgrade over what we’re sending out there now.
But it didn’t happen. The need for a fifth starter was well known by everyone, including Brian Cashman. Cashman knows that to get to the playoffs (let alone win it all), we’re going to need a better #5 starter than the AAA pitcher we sent out there tonight.
Cashman also knows that if we fail to make it to the playoffs this year, his time with this team is likely over. Does anyone really think he went out of his way not to make trades for a fifth starter because he doesn’t know what he’s doing? We didn’t get the fifth starter, and it’s because none of the trades made any sense. We are in a very unique situation with our minor leaguers, in that they’re either really, really good, or not appealing at all. This means that the players teams are willing to take are not guys we’d want to give up, and the guys we could part with are not enough to bring in anything substantial.
There will be a waiver wire signing. You can bet the bank on that. Granted, they might not be our first choice. We aren’t going to get a Roy Halladay, or a Jake Peavy, or a Jerrod Washburn off of waivers. But someone like Bronson Arroyo would, without a doubt, give us more of a chance to win in the #5 spot than anything else we have right now. His only problem is being either lights out, or awful. The thing is, that’s a 50/50. With the guys we have now, there’s a pretty much 100% chance they’re going to get shelled.
Help is coming. And I’m sure Joe knows how terrible his team has played the last two days. If it happens again, you can bet there’ll be a closed door team meeting, and it won’t be for a rousing kangaroo court. But my guess is, A-Rod beats himself up for not hustling tonight, and Posada gets over whatever it was that was plaguing him tonight (That was NOT typical Jorge tonight. Might be the single worst game I’ve ever seen him play).
But they HAVE to do it tomorrow, lest they chance falling in to a groove of sloppy play. It’s a lot of pressure on AJ, who has been arguably our best pitcher this year. Chances are, he’s going to have a hiccup game somewhere along the way, because everyone has one of those from time to time (Exhibit A: Posada tonight). We can’t afford for that game to be tomorrow.
The last couple of games haven’t been pretty but the Yanks finished the month of July 18-9.
If they keep that % up for the rest of the season, they will have won 101 games.
Everyone there now staying relatively healthy is a big key in that possibly happening.
The Bannister thing was on mlbtraderumors.com
Gotta think of it from the Steinbrenner’s perspective, too. Old man George never had a huge debt payment to make for a new stadium. He didn’t have to worry … The current regime must pay for the $1.5 billion stadium and the game’s most expensive payroll. Couple that with the team’s miscalculation on demand for the pricy seats, and there may be a cash crunch with this team.
“The Bannister thing was on mlbtraderumors.com”
so ofcourse it must be true!
Donnie
They wont get Arroyo because he makes too much money for what they consider a 5th starter.
Also, Francessa is not the GM.
Can ANYONE explain why the Yanks seemly didn’t inquire into trading for Cliff Lee?
-
Doug Davis pitched at Citi Field tonight, could be a waiver wire guy, but 6 walks vs the Mets tonight, ugh who knows.
“We are in a very unique situation with our minor leaguers, in that they’re either really, really good, or not appealing at all. This means that the players teams are willing to take are not guys we’d want to give up, and the guys we could part with are not enough to bring in anything substantial.”
Donnie, You nailed it.
“Can ANYONE explain why the Yanks seemly didn’t inquire into trading for Cliff Lee?”
B/c Shapiro asked for Joba or Hughes.
Brandon, from Joel Sherman’s blog today:
For example, I heard that Cashman told Seattle executives that he might be able to put a trade for Jarrod Washburn in place and not be given approval to add the approximately $3.7 million remaining on the lefty’s contract.
http://blogs.nypost.com/sports......html#more
Cashman was seen singing this song…..
No more shopping sprees
No more late night creeps
No more VIP’s
No more dough
We can’t even kick it no more
No more shopping sprees
No more late night creeps
No more VIP’s
No more dough
We can’t even kick it no more
Tucker August 1st, 2009 at 1:21 am
Gotta think of it from the Steinbrenner’s perspective, too. Old man George never had a huge debt payment to make for a new stadium. He didn’t have to worry … The current regime must pay for the $1.5 billion stadium and the game’s most expensive payroll. Couple that with the team’s miscalculation on demand for the pricy seats, and there may be a cash crunch with this team.
————————–
Oh please.
You forgot about YES which makes a bundle.
Sidney Ponson will be a Yankee again
sigh
Hal Steinbrenner singing this song
No more shopping sprees
No more late night creeps
No more VIP’s
No more dough
We can’t even kick it no more
No more shopping sprees
No more late night creeps
No more VIP’s
No more dough
We can’t even kick it no more
yea booga the steinnbrenners are carl pohlad with there $200 mill payroll..
get a clue…they have the largest payroll in the game by $40 mill, they spend enough money maybe the players just need to play better????
At least Shelly Duncan will be gone tomorrow. I never understood why fans like him.
I VERY highly doubt that the reason that they didn’t get Bannister was because of less than $1m. Look at the situation. Bannister is a useful pitcher, makes really no money, Royals have no reason to trade him don’t you think that equals they were asking for a more than a decent prospect from the Yanks? It seems that every team was trying to fleece the Yanks I wouldn’t be surprised if the Royals tried to do the same thing. Honestly after hearing what other teams asked for I wouldn’t be surprised if they asked for Ajax.
I bet the steinbrenners will keep cutting payroll every year. Dont expect any more significant pieces in the offseason.
Sure, Yes is lucrative. Though revenue sharing takes money from the Yankees and sreads it to payroll-cutting franchises such as the Pirates. Plus the luxury tax. For every $1 you add in payroll, you are paying 40 extra cents in luxury tax. That’s real money that no other team has to pony up.
Bring up AJAX tomorrow.
The Pirates are the Yankees AAAA farm team.
They should get Zach Duke.
Brandon, The Bannister issue was written up in what I think was the NY Times as well as reported on ESPN ”First take ” show earlier today……Besides there have been several columns devoted to the same issu, Hal Stienbrenner was adament about taking on more salary…..Cashman may have had his hands tied somewhat…..Could be why so many teams wanted more talent from them in lue of the salary issues…..We really don’t know for certain, but Bannister would have been ideal for the # 5 role…He was a cheap pickup, with not any high chips going back to KC…..Very unusual business practice for the Bombers…
The Pirates GM is clueless. Zach Duke for Edwar straight up. Edwar could be the Pirates closer.
zzzzzzzzzzzz
zzzzzzzzzzzz
Booga August 1st, 2009 at 1:30 am
I bet the steinbrenners will keep cutting payroll every year. Dont expect any more significant pieces in the offseason.
—————–
Yes, that’s why they invested $400M this last offseason on three big FA. They are cutting payroll.
The attitude here after a loss is as ugly as usual.
I agree that the Yankees may be concerned about payroll.
But when Wang went down, it became an emergency situation. Options A & B were already entrenched in the bullpen. Option C was out indefinitely. And Option D, while the greatest minor leaguer in International League history, is apparently now best suited as a lefty specialist. And Option E can’t keep his pitches down.
They owe it to Rivera to get another starter. Isn’t how decisions are made?
Its not the loss.
Well maybe it is because MITRE got bombed following a bad trade deadline day for the Yankees.
A little perspective on not trading ‘prospects’. This from a 1993 NY Times article:
Gene Michael, the Yankees’ general manager, has identified five young players as untouchable, untradeable and ungettable. Mark Hutton and Domingo Jean are among the group. Michael, however, apparently was prepared to relinquish either Hutton or Jean for Randy Johnson, but no way would he give up both.
Whats option Z?
Pat m,
If salary is an issue, why were they even looking? Why even look for a waiver wire deal? They don’t come for free.
If they weren’t going to take on payroll, then Igawa would’ve been up here a month ago.
I won’t buy that they can’t afford $650K. I think it was the principal of the thing.
Option Z is you going to sleep.
Zzzzzzzz…..
Gene Michael, the Yankees’ general manager, has identified five young players as untouchable, untradeable and ungettable. Mark Hutton and Domingo Jean are among the group. Michael, however, apparently was prepared to relinquish either Hutton or Jean for Randy Johnson, but no way would he give up both
__________________________________________________
Yea those guys really panned out.
Cashman would hold onto those guys and Jeff Johnson, Scott Kamienicki and Wade Taylor.
I’m sure if Hal believes the playoffs are in jeopardy, the team will OK a bump in payroll this year by picking up a waiver wire pitcher. The bottom line is the team has too much riding on this season — the huge payroll and the new stadium.
I just don’t think the Yanks are still the ATM that some fans think.
Cashman is looking for waiver wire guys who are making minimum wage.
Cashman is currently trying to convince Whitey ford to come out of retirement.
If the Yanks weren’t going to get a starter today, they at least should have tried to get a pitcher or 2 for the bullpen in order to transition Hughes back to a starter.
With Mitre playing like garbage and Joba on an innings limit, the back end of the rotation is in big trouble. Relying on Mitre “to get the job done” when he is clearly not up to the task does not sound too promising….
Mitre
“the risk i was referring to was injury, not a weakened bullpen. sorry, stretching is too risky, this guy gets injured again, we’ll lose him and our luck he’ll be a reclamation project and stick it in our face as an Angel.”
I see this is as the worst case scenario. I don’t think this is likely to happen.
“Mitre is a #5 SP what are you expecting there?”
I am expecting better than a 7.90 era and a 1.98 WHIP. if you have someone who will be a decent amount better than that (like hughes), why not use them? we already saw how this sort of pitcher worked out with ponson and rasner last year. mitre is a disaster.
“Plus lets say Yusse goes into the rotation, you realize when he doesn’t give length it’s going to tax the BP right?”
I think Hughes can give at least as much length as Mitre has given (with better effectiveness), if not more. what do you think? disagree? how much length has mitre given so far?
“Scenerio #1 Yussse can’t get out of the 5th, 4-1 runners on corners, to the BP, that effects who relieves tomorrow
too.”
This scenario is pretty accurate at describing each of mitre’s starts this year. If you havent noticed, Mitre is killing the bullpen. Hughes is better than this. You are way too pessimistic about phil if this is what you expect from him. This is not what I expect from him. This is what I expect from Mitre.
“Scenerio #2 CC Sabathia or Andy Pettitte goes 6 1/3 RISP 1 out #2, 3, 4 of the opposing teams lineup is up.
You mean to tell me you’d trust
Melancon
Bruney
D-Rob to get that ball to Mo?”
Yes. if it means Mitre is not in the starting rotation, then yes. And once Joba is in the bullpen, you bring Joba in for this situation. Right? Joba will be in the bullpen soon.
“Are you surrrrrrrrre you’d take that trade off now? mind you we play in the AL and the race will get more hairy, teams will play harder, offenses will look to score and force things to happen in the later innings, you’d take that trade off?”
Yes. Boston/Tampa vs Mitre down the stretch is something that could cost the Yanks the division. And Joba will be in the bullpen in September anyway. He can pitch the hairy situations. Right? Can you please discuss why you are ignoring Joba’s presence in the bullpen? That is pretty important.
“if he can’t give you a QS in the next 2-3 starts, you go to the next guy.”
Ok. who is the next guy? Igawa? really? You are ok with that? I’m not.
If the reversal of roles is such a big risk in terms of health, why isnt anybody going crazy about Joba relieving in september? anybody? please?
if the Yankees gradually work hughes in the rotation over a 3-week span, I think the injury risk is minimized. joab has about 3 weeks left in the rotation. this seems like a perfect match for me. you have to last 3 weeks with a Joba-less and hughes-less bullpen. im pretty sure the Ynaks can handle it.
but fine, if you would rather watch mitre and other terrible pitchers get a stab at #5, that’s cool. its just a difference of opinion. id rather have the upgrade in the rotation.
What is goin on?
would like to get a confirmation on this….Especially from Pete…The Joba rules in place this year is about 40 innings more then the last year or in professional ball/college ball?
between the minors and pros
2008- 100.1 innings
2007- 115.2 innings including the playoffs
2006- 123.1 innings College and Hawaii League
2005- 164 innings College and Summer Ball
below are the links check for yourself…With that said, i believe around 175 including playoffs is his magic number
http://www.huskers.com/ViewArt.....LID=107702
http://www.thebaseballcube.com.....lain.shtml
Bring up Josh Towers or Ivan Nova
Yes, I trust Melancon. Too bad the manager has become the worst of what Torre became.
Pat M: If you’re still awake, I’m currently working on a blog post in which I ask questions about the Yankees I shouldn’t be asking at 2 AM, or as a very unseasoned blogger.
Still, this one will be worth your read. Don’t know when I’m going to finish, but if it’s not up when you go to sleep, check in the morning.
bronson arroyo makes $10 mill next year and he stinks. he has a 5.50 ERA in the NL….
he is no solution to any problem…
rebecca what is the url to your blog????
They aren’t pulling Joba from the rotation, Yussse is not going into the rotation he is more needed in the BP. Joba might become the ACE down the stretch, no way they send him home or limit him.
m, We may never really know what the reasoning for this weeks sideline non-involvement was due to…..However they are averaging 43,000 per game in a season with bad weather, & a down economy….Now things to consider, the revenue for those 43,000 is much higher than the money reciepts from last seasons average gate of 48,000….Also they start getting serious relief from the revenue sharing due to the new Stadium mortgage bill…..The Yankees are raking in more bank than ever before…..Ceertainly Cashman was not going to use his blue chips and take on money…..However , it appears that he wasn’t going to be allowed to take on any nore additional contracts…..Should be interesting come November / December after they drop 45 million in contracts to see if they get involve in a very thin free agent pool…..The Wang, Nady, Kennedy injuries were devestating…..
“Yes, I trust Melancon. Too bad the manager has become the worst of what Torre became.”
Yes attrocious, 1st place abd top 2 in baseball, attrocious.
Girardi always said they had a “plan” going down the stretch. I firmly believed that was sending Joba to the pen once he neared his innings limit. That would give them a dominant pen for postseason.
However, Wang’s injury screwed up the plan. They need four starters for the playoffs, and right now, Joba is the team’s hottest pitcher. So unless they get another starter, that plan is out the window.
Excellent points all around Pete. It isn’t the losses the last two nights – it’s how the team played. Very sloppy. Also, note how many two out runs Chicago has scored in this series so far – unbelievable amount.
Meanwhile all contending teams have pretty much the same problem (pitching wise). The Sox Nation is up in arms about Smoltz and Penny. What is Francona’s response? “We’re relying on them to get the job done.”
Yanks finish with a July record of 18-9. I predict a 19-9 August.
“They aren’t pulling Joba from the rotation, Yussse is not going into the rotation he is more needed in the BP. Joba might become the ACE down the stretch, no way they send him home or limit him.”
You must not be paying attention. Girardi and Cashman have said all year long that they have a plan for Joba and are sticking to it, regardless of how big of a need there is for him in the rotation. They are sticking with it. He is not going to last through August in the rotation.
Brandon, I’m not sure why you think the Yankees won’t “limit” Joba when it is well known that Joba has a limit of 160 innings this year.
And calling Hughes “Yusse?” This isn’t My Cousin Vinny…
Think I saw a double-header at Ft. Lauderdale Yankee Stadium one night when I was a junior in high school- they had Hutton and Sterling Hitchcock, or maybe it was Russ Springer, throwing both ends- everyone was mumbling about how great they were going to be.
Anyhow, Cash could have had Washburn if he just pulled the trigger- though having Damon, Melky and Swisher fielding behind you is a lot different than Guttierez, Ichiro and Chavez/Langerhans/Saunders.
Tucker, Girardi just said 4 days ago the same thing – they are sticking to the plan. So no, the plan is not out the widnow. he said they will not risk joba’s future to increase their chances for this current season. This was 4 days ago.
We’ll see … They can get creative. Skip a start here or there to limit his innings. IF he is somewhat near the 160 by the end of the season, it is possible that they allow him in the rotation in postseason.
Remember 2007? The Joba rules were tossed out the window during the playoffs. It’s just that the team was ousted in four games,
stuart:
http://www.puristbleedspinstripes.com
“Brandon, I’m not sure why you think the Yankees won’t “limit” Joba when it is well known that Joba has a limit of 160 innings this year.”
It’s b/c it won’t be an innings cap, it’s going to be a pitches per innings cap. Watch.
“And calling Hughes “Yusse?” This isn’t My Cousin Vinny…”
Doesn’t stop Fatcessa and Kay.
Look, if Joba was staying in the rotation then there would be no need for me to want Hughes in the rotation so desperately, since they could just get a decent upgrade over Mitre through waivers. But the Yanks need 2 starters – one for Mitre, and one for Joba. I think Mitre can be replaced by whatever pitcher they get through waivers. And I want Hughes to replace Joba.
Keep it mind that Joba has been extra dominant after the break — when he got a few extra days’ rest. So it may make sense to skip a start here of there.
“We’ll see … They can get creative. Skip a start here or there to limit his innings. IF he is somewhat near the 160 by the end of the season, it is possible that they allow him in the rotation in postseason.”
I think we’ll see soon how creative they can get. If they are willing to skip Joba’s next start then they could force Mitre out of the upcoming Boston series. let’s see if they’ll do it.
Regardless of how creative they get, they will not go by the 160 innings.
“Regardless of how creative they get, they will not go by the 160 innings.”
There is no way he will not finish the yr. as a SP, try to pass that in NYC w/ a playoff race.
Rebecca, I read your piece on the trade deadline…..Being I’m on the West Coast I usually stay up till midnight so if your piece isn’t ready, I’ll certainly catch it tomorrow…..I can’t suggest strongly enough for all LoHuders to catch Rebecca’s blog every night…It’s always very good reading…..Time to walk my dogs , catch up it a few……
He’s at 110 IP right now. That means 50 IP left. What is that, 7 or 8 and then completely shutdown before october? Or maybe 4 starts and then bullpen duty through october?
and to whoever was worried about Hughes staying healthy if he started, why are you cool with the idea of joba blowing past 160 pitches and staying in the rotation through the playoffs? The data shows that is a big big risk. There is more certainty about that dangerous risk than the speculated risk to Hughes.
Yanks arent going to screw around with that. he’s a long-term asset, otherwise he wouldve been traded by now.
“There is no way he will not finish the yr. as a SP, try to pass that in NYC w/ a playoff race.”
Cashman has the balls to do just that. You dont think so?
ack. Just caught that. It’s ‘principle’.
Rebecca,
Is it done yet? You’ve piqued my interest.
Phil Hughes
“Cashman has the balls to do just that. You dont think so?”
Nope. And Cash said it last yr. innings cap out the window when it comes to playoffs.
m: Not yet, another 10 minutes, perhaps, I’m getting close.
Well I disagree with you. Girardi just said so 4 days ago that playoffs or not Joba will stick to the plan, and I believe what he is saying.
Here are a couple of questions I have for you, and I would appreciate it if you could answer these:
1) One of your main arguments for not wanting Hughes in the rotation is his health. So, if you really believe that Joba will start for the rest of the year including october, and assumedly blow by 160 IP, why does this not worry you about his health? Why are you worried about one guy’s health but not the other? I honestnyly dont understand. it seems to me that you should be annoyed by the fact that you think joba will exceeed his innings cap. But you are not.
2) Lets just say that Joba was going to the bullpen by the end of August. how would you fill out the last 2 spots of the Yankee rotation? Mitre + Waivers? Igawa + Waivers? Or would you be ok with Hughes in that case? Afterall I already stated that if Joba wasnt going to the bullpen that I wouldnt be so gung-ho about hughes going to the roattion. so i would like for you to know envision my expected scenario where joba does in fact go to the pen before september. what would you do about that??
thanks
actually im not sure if you were the one worried about hughes health. sorry if i made a mistake there.
yorkelz,
You know who you’re debating with, right?
There’s no debating with Brandon.
Pete hinted last nite that they may be stretching Hughes out already. His last three appearances have been longer.
yorkelz,
We don’t know if Brandon is actually worried about Phil’s health. But that’s his main argument for keeping Phil in the pen. As if that’s going to change our minds about Phil being in the rotation.
I think he could make the transition, and should. The problem is, who would be the EIG?
hey m, i know that neither one of us are going to change the others mind. but im enjoying this debate. its good fun banter without insults. i like that.
my expectation is that joba will be that guy because he will not last into september as a starter. i think the Yankees will transition him into the pen as he approaches the 160 IP. Once he is in the bullpen, Joba can be the EIG. And in the 3 weeks or so that it takes to stretch hughes out, i am willing to try my luck with the hot hands amongst coke, melancon, bruney, and robertson. to me it is worth it to have a questionable 8th inning situation for 3 weeks in august if it means that mitre wont be starting in september.
Washburn is Pettitte and we already have Pettitte.
If any minor leaguer is next its Zach McAllister (100 inngs at 2.24 ERA)
But before they move Melancon down and Zach up:
1) El Duque. a 2.24 in Tx AAA w/ opponent avg of 124. He was out in 08, but was a 3.5 in 07.
2) Clemens. He passed his tesxt, Mitre failed. What better timing to retire the Rocket and insure he enters into the HoF a Yank? He is working out and throwing everyday. He could be added to the pen. And sell the stadium out.
3) I am saving this one for my own blog. LOL
Paddy
Fans like Shelley because he is intense, unlike Smiling Robby and Melky. They like him b/c of the impact he had 2 yrs ago. Last yr he was given a whole month to prove something as Cano Melky and Molina stunk up the Bronx with their crap.
Hairston vs Ramior Pena = PENA/ who was hitting 275 in the AL East. And had great leather.
Oh.
And HINSKE plays THRID BASE TOO.
YORKELZ
Why wont he last until Sept as a starter? Is he throwing too hard; like last year as a starter??
You have NOT seen his inning limits either. So dont try it…
I know, lets use Hughes to start. LOL
Phil has the same ERA as a starter as Mitre had before tonight… 5.45 ERA
Keep him where he has already proven himself.
Not a starter.
For now/
I’m so happy that 5 of Hinske’s 7 hits as a Yankee have been homeruns. But, it seems like his efforts are always wasted, because we still seem to lose when he plays. Poor guy, he must look around and think, “wow, you guys are so unclutch.” haha.
yeah i feel bad for hinske as well.
Okay, yorkels. Good luck winning this one.
m and Pat M: tthe post is written, now being proofread. Should be up shortly.
Lets see….Phil Hughes, starer, then reliever, then starter again……That’s a sign of desperation….I do remember several here over the winter expressing concern that Cashman didn’t address the bullpen depth…..Randy I, was very outspoken over this issue….In fact, he even said that Cashman should have added another starter so Hughes would not be # 6 on the depth chart…..He was right on both accounts…..Many of us had concerns about Wang bouncing back, however nobody expected him to be so ineffective by openning day…..It was clear something was not right when I saw him in during one of his late spring outings….That carried over to April, Phil Hughes is pitching in Detroit by the end of April……Give Tin Cup his due….
“The high-quality stuff won’t be there,” Cashman said of the potential players on the August trade market. “But there will be stuff.”
Sounds like Cashman is planning on another Sidney Ponson type move.
a bigger sign of desperation is using Sergio Mitre and some mystery starter from waivers as 2/5ths of your starting rotation as the seasons winds down in september, while joba and hughes are both snuggling next to mo in the bullpen
So it would appear the Yankees have a budget, after all http://www.puristbleedspinstri.....r-all.html
yorkelz
August 1st, 2009 at 2:42 am
a bigger sign of desperation is using Sergio Mitre and some mystery starter from waivers as 2/5ths of your starting rotation as the seasons winds down in september, while joba and hughes are both snuggling next to mo in the bullpen
———————————-
The race with the red sox is coming down to last week of the season. Neither the yankees or the red sox will run away with the division. You just saw how quickly things can change in a week. What is going to happen in mid september when there is no Joba starting. The rotation will have CC, AJ, Andy and two journeymen pitchers. It was very important that Cashman got another starter especially learning that Wang is done for the season. It didn’t have to be Halladay just a solid number 3 or 4 starter. Cashman really messed up.
Butt Joe likes him sooooo much, just like Cody Ransuck. Give me a freakin break.
lol. C$$$ sounding like a drug runner.
The problem is we’re short at least 3 quality arms, more if they decide Joba won’t be starting anymore.
The distressing part is, this is nothing new. Wang’s been injured/disabled/innefective since the 3rd week of the season.
Has Damaso even pitched this season?
And when Bruney going down was yet another system failure alarm they failed to heed.
If the Big 4 stay healthy, and pitch to their abilities, we can afford the occasional stinker from mitre. The problem is the team is hitting, but not playing clean baseball. Clean it up, run prevention makes the job easier.
It means that the club virtually must win every time CC & AJ and to a lesser degree Pettite take to the hill….I don’t know if it’s been announced yet, but I heard that Boston was going to move Dice-K to the 60 day DL….Tampa Bay could catch Boston…..
yeah im not sleeping on tampa. they are a serious threat. its is pretty amazing that one of these 3 teams in the AL east will miss the postseason when they are all better than all of the teams from the AL West and Central.
Pat M: The post is up =)
Brandon… I’M AWESOME ! BOS 8 NYY 0 = Yankees in first place
Yes attrocious, 1st place abd top 2 in baseball, attrocious [sic].
___
They have a $60 million payroll advantage: AIM HIGHER!
Rebecca,
Just finished it. TMI, TMI. Just kidding. Lot’s of good info.
I can buy the Yankees holding the line on spending. But what I can’t buy is that they would let the season sink because Joba can’t pitch a full season, and they refuse to replace Wang with a major league pitcher.
If they want to pinch pennies (which I don’t believe), then the ONLY answer is to move Hughes back to the rotation and sink or swim with Melancon and other high-ceiling prospects in the bullpen. Or bring up Igawa. I truly believe he would be better than Mitre at this point.
How can they look Mo in the eye and say they can’t afford to take on any more contracts? I’m not buying it.
Pat M….
Lets see….Phil Hughes, starer, then reliever, then starter again……That’s a sign of desperation.
___
No, that’s a sign of the optimal use of your available personnel and the operation of a tractable mind.
just cuz a team has a great record doesnt mean everything is perfect. i mean joe torre still bats matt kemp 8th for some unexplainable reason. that being said, while it is always easy (and necessary) to dwell on the negatives, its also nice to be in first place for a change.
i dont really see the yankees lasting in first place if joba has to move out of the rotation and they refuse to replace him with phil hughes. using more ponson-types is a recipe for disaster
Agree, Phil’s role is in flux because of Wang’s injuries and one panic call up when Joba got hit with a line drive.
We just need to fix the #5 problem. Then everything else would fall into place.
You can have one Ponson type, but not two. They won’t go down that road again.
FWIW, I edited the post and put in a paragraph towards the end about the YES network, since someone pointed out that I went through the whole thing without mentioning that once.
Which is why I shouldn’t blog at 3 AM.
Richie, It might be due to the lateness of the evening, however I’m not clear amout the tractable mind……I do know, moving Phil around is not doing him nor the club any good at this late date on the season…August 1….
Player A:
ERA: 7.90 WHIP: 1.98
Player B:
ERA: 5.85 WHIP: 1.64
Player A is Mitre this season. Player B is Ponson for the Yankees last season.
In light of the forgoing, I might even give Igawa a start.
M I agree they need a 5th starter who is decent then all there other issues can be resolved internally.
they need a 5th starter to give them 5 or so starts, decent starts…..
they have gardner coming back, marte appears close, melancon is showing some signs of getting it together.. they have catching depth in cervelli in case of a injury, they have some young arms that can improve for the pen.. they just need a 5th starter and to skip Joba’s turn on occassion…..
Mitre should get 1 more start if he goes 3 innings and implodes they need another option…
Pat M,
A whole blog post dedicated to the point guard situation. Lucky thing the triangle doesn’t require a “true” PG.
http://www.forumblueandgold.co.....he-future/
Another thing that will screw up the rotation is if the terrible NY weather continues and the Yankees have to play a doubleheader or makeup game sometime.
They already lost an off-day in September because they have to make up an Angels game from back in May. That takes away an off-day where they could have potentially skipped Joba’s start that week.
Pat M….
When the topic of moving Hughes to the pen fist came up on the YES broadcast a few months ago, Cone said it would be a good move because he would learn more at the ML level than he would in the mLs, and that he could easily be stretched out enough to go back into the rotation if necessary.
Girardi’s mistake has been to limit so many of his outings to one IP, even when he only threw 9 pitches.
But he has thrown 28, 39, and 35 pitches, respectively, in his last three outings, and had a few days rest in between. I think they could continue to slowly transition him to say 45 to 50 pitches an outing, and then to 60 to 65, and so on, and in three weeks he could be at around 90, and be ready to start.
In the mean time, they could experiment with Igawa or Nova or whomever.
I think that would reflect the need for another quality starter as Joba’s inning cap approaches. I don’t see it as a negative in anyway.
Melancon could be tested in the interim to see if he can fill the 7th/8th inning role.
Anyway, sleep beckons. GN.
btw, Aceves worries me a little.
yes Richie…this is the sort of thing they should do
there is still time to stretch hughes out, but they have to get on it immediately.
We really have no starting pitching depth in AAA. Where did it all go?
Just 2 years ago in ’07 we had games started by Clippard, Rasner, Karstens, Chase, DeSalvo, and maybe one or two other fringe pitchers. That’s not even including Igawa, Kennedy, and Hughes.
Don’t tell me selling Rasner to Japan is going to haunt the Yankees in September, lol.
The Yankees don’t need a 5th starter until Monday 10th. That’s a lot of time to get a deal done.
Rebecca, Solid piece well structured, and the historical lead and tie it provides a sense of excitement…..Now there are very few investors to speak off…..Those who do have a limited piece of the action recieve comfort evert 6 months or so , when Forbes of Barrons announces the value of sports franchices….Now this is a annual event that the Steinbrenner Family has been counting on for 15 years now….You see, the NY Yankees increse in worth value in increments of 100 million dollars or more every season….Now this season, playing it a new palace, they are set to gross somewhere in the vicinity of 550 million dollars……Post season games in the old house meant an additional 3 million per game…..They have the same payroll as in 08, the average fanny that sits in the new edifice is spending approx 29.00 more than in 08…..So 29.00 times 44,000 times 81 gives you an idea of how much additional revenue they make just in gate reciepts……I think Hal & maybe Hank do not want to give the perception that they are making tooo much coin, and buying a Halladay with a Alex Rios would be a situation of flaunting the new mint on River Ave…..Just think if the Bombers win the World Series in 09…Forbes will jump the teams worth form 1,7 billion to well over 2 billion dollars…..Not including the new ( 1.5 billion dollar ) palace.
the yankees starting depth went like this; wang hurt, kennedy hurt, aceves to the pen, hughes to the pen, and that is 4 guys for 1 spot… if the pen would have been more effective such as Bruney then obviously aceves or hughes(better option) would have been available for the rotation…
the big 3 cc, aj,and joba need to really pick it up…………..btw the depth starters from a few years ago; clippard, karstens, all basically stink except Ohlendorf is not half bad..Man finding pitching is so damn hard…..
Richie, It’s August 1st….By the time Hughes will be ready to effectively start would be the last week of the month….Now thepainful reality is who takes his place putting uo zeros on the scoreboard during August…..He can help win at least 3 maybe 4 games a week as the setup arm…As a starter that number is 1 win….Alos factor in how many games will be lost in the 8 th because he’s no longer there….And in closing, I wonder how effective he’d be as a starter this last in the season…..Brian Bannister was the key
Well who exactly do you want in the rotation then if Joba Chamberlain is removed due to an innings cap?
You are grossly underestimating the Yankee bullpen w/out Hughes. The Yankees are 57-3 this year when tied or leading at the start of the 8th inning. Hughes didn’t begin regularly setting up for Mariano until July. So chances are that they can get by for 3 weeks without Hughes in the setup spot. They have 6 other dudes, someone is bound to be hot. it is up to Girardi to identify that player(s) and put them in higher leverage situations. This is pretty much how he handled the 8th inning before Hughes emerged. Not that complicated really.
Then when Hughes is good to go as a starter, Joba can take over the 8th inning.
With all the makeups due, it’s going to hard to skip Chamberlains starts…..They’re going to expand his innings limit…..They have no choice…..Yankee Stadium cannot and will not be dark come October…..That’s a loss of at least 3 million dollars per game, and that’s on the low conservative side…..
Uguethu,Do you remember the days of April when games were being blown night after nigh because of the bullpen….Hughes comes along in June along with Aceves and Coke and suddenly they’re winning 65 % of their games…..It’s the club strength, but it’s being compromised by overuse, and the second tier of relievers are not consistent….
“They’re going to expand his innings limit…..They have no choice”
Yes they do have a choice. Put him in the bullpen in maybe 4 weeks. Thats a choice that doesnt involve shutting him down for October, and without requiring him to surpass his cap.
And yeah I remember April. I remember that Mark Teixeira and Cody Ransom were useless. I remember that AJ Burnett was terrible and that the bullpen was pitching too many innings.
But you know what I also remember? I remember that Sabathia is good for 7 innings per start. I remember that Burnett and Joba are on fire right now. I remember that the Yankee offense is the best in baseball and often times the Yankees now have large leads in the 8th innings because they score so many runs. So I think it is very likely that the yankees don’t need a massive bullpen support triumvirate of Coke and Aceves and Hughes to win for the next 3 weeks. Taking Hughes out wont cripple the bullpen. They can get by for 3 or 4 weeks, and then Joba can take over.
They are 57-3 when tied or leading at the start of the 8th inning. Twist it however you want, but that also includes April. The bullpen is fine without Hughes for a few weeks.
Rebecca, I went through your online chat, and it looks great, as does the rest of your entries. Well written and informative.
Whoever, you have an issue. You have impersonators on it. There were two idiotic entries made under my signature that I didn’t make. Just wanted to let you know of potential problems.
So I guess you don’t have an answer to how to replace Joba because you don’t think Joba will leave the rotation? How about this, consider the hypothetical situation where Joba is a reliever for the last 4 or 5 weeks of the regular season. Who’s in your starting rotation then?
Both you guys are forgetting that the April bullpen also had some dudes who aren’t even here anymore:
Edwar Ramirez
Jose Veras
Jon Albaladejo
Am I forgetting anybody? And wasn’t Mo struggling as well back then? Whatever, the bullpen is very different now. They replaced the crappy guys with better guys, and Mo is back to form. They have lots of options for late game situations if they want to turn Hughes back to a starting pitcher. With the way Mitre is going I wouldn’t be surprised at all if that’s what they do!
What is Joba’s inning cap??? So why even talk about it??
The FACT is” Joba hasnt been throwing 100%’ like he did last yr when injured in August.
SO why even ptretend to know what, if any, inning cap there will be??
They have lots of options for late game situations if they want to turn Hughes back to a starting pitcher
…
you should check the stats. They have NO options to getting to Mo without Hughes
Edwar is about a 4 in AAA
You just saw how good Albaladejo is last wk
Veras? You missed the first half season?
Youre want for Phil to get a shot to prove himself (again) a worthy starter is rather selfish.
Dont put one player ahead of the team. Ever. These are the Yankees, no one player will ever be big enough.
The pen sucked before Hughes. WHICH IS WHY HUGHES WAS BROUGHT BACK THERE TO FIX IT.
Dude…I named those guys as relievers who failed in april. lol.
And if you think Joba doesn’t have a cap you are nuts. Whatever, you can refuse to accept reality. Check back in with reality at the end of the month when Joba is yanked from the rotation due to an innings cap. lol.
Great Blog Pete as always!
I agree that the Yankees need to upgrade the 5th spot in the rotation. I don’t think though that it’s as big a problem as we all think it is. The Yankees 5th starter really provided the team with anything this year?
As starters:
9 starts from Wang = 11.38 ERA
7 starts from Hughes = 5.45 ERA
4 starts from Mitre = 7.90 ERA
1 start from Aceves = 8.11 ERA
Collectively, those 4 have made 21 starts. Their combined line is 5-8, 85.2 IP, 122 H, 79 ER, 36 BB, 61 K, 8.30 ERA. Granted, Wang makes those numbers a lot worse. If you remove CMW, it’s 4-2, 51.2 IP, 65 H, 36 ER, 19 BB, 39 K, 6.27 ERA.
The 5th spot has pretty much been garbage all year yet the Yanks are in first place and have the best record in the AL. It could certainly be improved but they’ve shown they can win with them.
As for dealing for someone, it’d be nice if Cashman could snap his fingers and make a deal. It’s not that simple. He’s got to find someone willing to deal who is not trying to bend him over a barrel. Did anyone really want him to deal A-Jax for Washburn? If he keeps running into GMs who only want Hughes, Joba, Jackson, or Montero, he’s not going to deal. Would you want him to?
July 27 – August 12….remember ?…These 16 games show how we can play NOW against teams that are actually good enough to make the playoffs. So far, we are 2-3. Not a good start. Winning the next 2 in ChiTown, OR 3 of the next 4 will kinda right the ship, but consider these records against teams that have the best records in the AL: vs. BOS, 0-8, vs LAA 2-4, vs TB 6-5, vx TEX 4-2. 12-19, folks….and now we are 0-2 vs Chicago ? What are the chances that the Yankees make the playoffs and do NOT have to play BOS or LAA to advance ? Really folks, on August 12th, if we haven’t gone 10-6 or better and/or Mr. CashMeister has gotten us a couple of pitchers to help with the stretch run, we are again looking at another “one and done” appearance in the playoffs. Terrible results against quality teams does not translate well into the playoffs.
Hughes wasn’t put in the pen to fix the pen. He was there as just another arm and to back-up CMW while Wang was rehabbing. That he ended up excelling there is why there is any debate at all about taking him out.
Good morning.
If Mitre isn’t going to effective, they need to be concerned with finding someone to replace him before they worry about who starts instead of Joba weeks from now.
By the time Joba hits his innings limit, they will be close to September 1 when rosters expand. If they flood the bullpen with arms, they might be able to cobble together 1 start out of 5 without sacrificing arms that could be needed to finish off other games.
I wonder if it’s easier to get a player through waivers after Sept. 1 when they would no longer be eligible for a postseason roster?
My problem is we have no protection at this point if someone goes down. If Damon is out for a week we have Hinske, Gardner soon enough, Duncan and the new guy. What happens if Burnett goes down? Mitre was the backup option and hes being used already. We are lacking depth at the moment, at the very least there needs to be some sort of back up plan.
“Did anyone really want him to deal A-Jax for Washburn? If he keeps running into GMs who only want Hughes, Joba, Jackson, or Montero, he’s not going to deal. Would you want him to?”
The Tigers didn’t give up much for Washburn, it was Luke French and some other prospect(s) and the Mariners GM wanted Jackson? LOL!!! Fortunately, Cashman isn’t that stupid.
Not having Wang and Kennedy really hurts our pitching depth. Ugh!
“Not having Wang and Kennedy really hurts our pitching depth.”
Don’t forget that Marte and Bruney were essentially replaced by Hughes and Aceves in the pen. So in effect we lost 4 starters to injury.
Yankees had two needs at the trade deadline,a utility player who could play all over & they got a decent one, better than anything they had. The rotation needed a # 3 – or # 4 SP & they didn’t deliver, really don’t know what their thinking was on this & after last night was & it needed.
BTW…..How do the Sox get Vmart for J Masterson,that was a steal….he would have looked good in a Yankee uniform for the next 5 years
Yes, the Yankees are in first place… for now. The Red Sox are not put away, they are right there with the Yankees. The Rays are not far behind.
Pettitte is OK, but even in a game that he pitched very well he lost. Mitre stinks it up so bad AND having a 5th starter that goes only 4 innings kills the bullpen. It leaves no room for error for a shorter outing from CC, AJ, and Joba.
They didn’t need to pick up the best pitcher out there, but when Lee goes for lesser prospects and not a word that the Yankees had even tried to talk to them, it makes you wonder why. They could have topped the Phillies offerings and still not dealt top untouchables.
The pick up of Hairiston was OK, but didn’t really address the outfield problem.
Washburn gets traded for something the Yankees should have beaten without dealing top tier players.
Bannister is passed on because of less than 1 million dollars.
Fine. Money is tighter because of the new stadium, but it seems that everyone is forgetting that the Yankees are also in the food concessions business with the Cowboys, and so they are making money from that venture, a very lucrative income which probably does not come into play with the revenue sharing. YES network is doing well. In the case of the million, if the Yankees miss the playoffs they lose more than that one million they would have had to pay Bannister.
It isn’t about needing a high quality pitcher so much as them having a need for a pitcher who is serviceable enough to give them 6 innings and keep them close enough in the games. That saves the bullpen from over use and puts less pressure on the whole rotation.
This trade deadline looked terrible because it was. They didn’t get what they needed most to remain in first so they could position themselves well for the regular and post season.
A pickup off the waivers is no guarantee, and because of their standing currently, they get to wait out other teams who also had a need for pitching. Don’t you think that those other teams will pick up anything that is of worth before the Yankees have a chance to? Unless the cost is foolish, and then its back to them spending even more than they needed to when they had the chance to get someone. And they probably will not be as good as what they passed up.
if the #’s go right Joba gets 4 maybe 5 more starts & then goes to the pen…then what ?
“BTW…..How do the Sox get Vmart for J Masterson,that was a steal….he would have looked good in a Yankee uniform for the next 5 years”
I’m still boggled about that return for Martinez. They must have been pretty pleased with their overall return for Lee, Garko,Betancourt and DeRosa. As far as having him with the Yankees… that would create a log jam.
If Hirsh is healthy and shows anything (anything) with Scraton he should get a shot. He was a big prospect with Houston and then Colorado. If he’s got control of the change and is not injured in some way maybe he can capture some Yankee magic.
The problem the Yanks have is that they have no near-major league ready pitcher in the minors that teams want. That’s why the Tigers got Washburn and we didn’t – we didn’t have a Luke French type guy to give back. We’ll have the same problem getting any major league starter that we’d actually want to use.
Our other problem is that in the minors, once you get past Montero, Ajax and maybe Romine, the rest are just the kind of prospects that all teams have. All teams have good relief prospects. McAllister might fetch something, but it’s hard to get a major league starter for any of the rest of them in a deal.
Cashman is not likely to find pitching help at AAA which means the waiver wire.
At the same time Bruney needs to step it up – big time and be a reliable arm in the bullpen if Aceves has a tender shoulder. Girardi may need to use Melancon more.
Because somebody brought up Rasner. Last thing I heard about him was that he got demoted with a 6.62 ERA in Japan.
Meanwhile Ross Ohlendorf has a 9-8 record and a 4.43 ERA with the Pirates. Not great, but right now I’d rather have him out there than Nady and Marte on rehab assignments.
Ohlendorf pitching in the AL would be looking a lot like Mitre, results wise.
Joba will be taken out prior to the postseason….they aren’t going to take chances with their golden boy. Pettit has pitched well recently, but he seems to have some sort of breakdown in the 7th inning or so. And with how he broke down in the 2nd half last year, I’m not that confident. As for Mitre……………uggggh.
Pete:
Melky threw to third because noone was at second. He wasn’t showboating his arm. Cano rotated to first when he should have been at second. That’s the second time you have busted on Melky without cause in that play. At least review it before you continue to bash him.
How about going after Paul Byrd? I know he is not great, but should be better than Mitre..
PAJeterFan,
You are right about Cano being out of position. What was he doing at first base??? It’s plays like that where Larry Bowa would talk to him.Hopefully, someone did because it cost a run and was as inexcusable as A Rod not hustling.
I’m afraid we’ll all watch Sergio get bombed again.
Hey prospect lovers! Happy now? that’s not your #5 starter, that’s your #4 starter once Joba goes to the pen. Call me crazy, but I’d trade a guy who projects out to be Coco Crisp (Ajax) for Washburn if I got a window to negotiate or got them to pay some of the salary… we have this guy playing CF for us who is young and his name is Melky. He’s not a bad hitter to have 8 or 9 in your lineup and he is OK defensively. We also will get back Gardiner who is a 4th outfielder and a good defensive CF … also young. We could live without Austin Jackson. Washburn’s last ten starts were better than Cliff Lees!
… but now we got waiver wire garbage Arroyo minus the juice, batting practice Bannister and ??? who probably are no better than Mitre vs. decent lineups (certainly no better than a healthy Aceves, crossing my fingers there).
just my opinion, you aren’t getting anything after July 31st that’s going to do much for you. But, don’t worry, we’ll have waiver priority over the Red Sox by the end of the weekend with these upcoming pitching match-ups (Sabathia is good, but… Buehrle is better in the last two starts than… anyone…)
This is a bit of a nit-pick, but the 0-2 pitch wasn’t over the plate. It was outside and low. One of those situations where a guy with great plate coverage reached out, flicked his bat at the ball, and ended with a weak hump back liner for a single.
NOt Aceves’ fault on that pitch, happens all the time.
Sorry if this is a repost, no evidence my original message was loaded.
A #5 starter on this team is a luxury. Fussing over it is like worrying about Cindy Crawford’s mole. This team should be able to get by with the other four and score enough runs to carry a weak link
Observer:
Agree with you on that pitch for Aceves. But he still had trouble with 0-2 counts and putting hitters away I think.
Overall we had opportunities and whether defense, offense or pitching, each let us down at some point. It was a “team loss” in that sense.
Speaking of misplays – you forgot the godawful baserunning by arod in the 9th.
wasn’t josh towers the little talentless punk who kept throwing at A-Rod?