It could be profitable for Pettitte
-
-
- August
- 3
-
We’ve all heard talk that the Yankees are actually operating under a budget with Hal Steinbrenner in charge. According to Brian Cashman, his payroll has limits. The Yankees actually got money back from Pittsburgh when they acquired Eric Hinske.
Does Andy Pettitte play a role in that? Under the terms of the $5.5 million deal he agreed to in late January, Pettitte can earn an additional $6.5 million in bonuses. He could get pretty close to that.
Let’s check it out:
Performance bonuses:
150 innings: $500,000.
160 innings: $500,000.
170 innings: $500,000.
180 innings: $750,000.
190 innings: $750,000.
200 innings: $750,000.
210 innings: $750,000
Roster bonuses:
120 days on the 25-man roster: $100,000.
130 days on the 25-man roster: $200,000.
140 days on the 25-man roster: $250,000
150 days on the 25-man roster: $250,000
160 days on the 25-man roster: $400,000
170 days on the 25-man roster: $400,000
180 days on the 25-man roster: $400,000
Pettitte has been on the active roster for 123 days. If he lasts the season, he will get $2 million.
He is also on a pace to finish the season with just over 200 innings, which would mean another $3.5 million. So Pettitte could finish the season with a total salary of $11 million. Given the state of the free-agent market last winter, the Hendricks Brothers did well for their client.
Pettitte will face Toronto tomorrow and Boston on Sunday. As the season moves along, he’s going to start raking it in.
————
I think that’s it from me today. I’m still in Chicago and going to try and enjoy the rest of the day off before heading for Toronto. Thanks for checking in.
This entry was posted
on Monday, August 3rd, 2009 at 3:54 pm by Peter Abraham.
You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed.
Print This Post
| 
Email This Post
Chad Jennings
Sam Borden
That certainly could be the reason. Good info.
Who thinks Andy will be in the starting rotation in 2010? I wouldn’t be shocked..
When he signed that deal, I suggested he could have the exact same year he did in ‘08 and make almost of $12M this year. So far he’s done that (4.54, 1.41 WHIP in ‘08/ 4.51, 1.44 WHIP in ‘09). These were pretty easily reached incentives so long as he stayed healthy.
Who thinks Andy will be in the starting rotation in 2010? I wouldn’t be shocked..
————————————————
Considering Wang’s situation…I wouldn’t be shocked either. I don’t think Wang could return before next July/August…it might be a good idea to resign Petitte and see if he can get the job done until Wang comes back.
repost:
sure there are better things than the cycle. 3 HR games, 2 doubles and HR, etc. heck, even 1 for 4, if that 1 was a grand salami…
at the same time, for a pitcher, what about a complete game shutout vs a no-hitter where run(s) is/are given up due to errors? same deal. a CGSO doesn’t get as much publicity, but a no-hitter puts you in history books.
that said, i was so freaking happy for the melk yesterday
If Andy finishes up with a strong second half, I think he might be back next year especially after Wang’s injury.
I wish that more contracts were structured this way. The Yankees could have saved a lot of money with Glass Carl if they had given him such a contract.
Andy has done exactly what the Yankees signed him to do. Take the ball and log innings. He has had bad stretches but overall he’s done a good job. It seems like he is throwing his cutter more here in the 2nd half and I hope that means his arm is feeling good and he’s poised to pitch well down the stretch. I think all the worrying about Joba and Andy is really overblown, given that both have ability and both were key parts of getting the Yankees to where they are right now in the standings.
Repost:
Christina –
I wish nothing but the best for your son.
Its up to andy if he wants to pitch in 2010
I think it’s quite possible Andy will be in the NYY rotation in 2010: CC, AJ, Joba, Hughes, Andy. He is pitching well lately and a lot depends up0on how he finishes. I also saw an interview with him on YES last week and he said a main reason he came back was the team added CC & AJ and has a great chance of winning the WS. I have heard him say he isn’t too concerned about personal goals at this point in his career. He just wants to win. Maybe if the NYY do win he’ll just retire.
If Andy stays healthy and pitches well then he deserves the money for sure. I doubt he is back next year, but it’s possible. The Yankees might need two starters now for next year as they will have the same issues. Hughes will be back to being a starter with limited innings, the Yankees will look at a mediocre starter. Keep in mind that the Yankees are likely to pull off a waiver wire deal for a starter who may be under contract for next year already like Arroyo.
If Andy feels healthy & is happy with his overall performance this year, there is no reason to think he won’t be back in ‘10
wen do dey start putting players on waivers ?
Eric August 3rd, 2009 at 3:58 pm
Who thinks Andy will be in the starting rotation in 2010? I wouldn’t be shocked..
=================
I’d be shocked if he gets another contract where he could earn 11 million bucks.
I have a feeling 2009 is the last of Andy
The Yankees will need at least 1 starter during the off season
Pete, sometimes I think you have it in for Andy. Here is a guy who has played hard for the Yankees, then they turned their backs on him in ‘03 and when they needed some stability in the rotation last year, he pitched half the season hurt.
Are you picking apart Alex? CC and AJ the way you pick Andy apart? Whatever the guy makes, it will be a fraction of the money made by these “big” stars.
Must admit, Andy does not get the respect he deserves by this organization, the beat writers and the fans.
Her’s a list of possible and probable waiver players. Keep in mind that this is Hetman’s thoughts, so take it for what it’s worth and be careful.
From MLB Rumors-R-Us
By Ben Nicholson-Smith [August 3 at 1:32pm CST]
Executives tell Jon Heyman of SI.com that we saw the “softest deadline ever” last week because there’s still the possibility for trades this month. Here’s an explanation of how trades can occur after the deadline and here are the players Heyman deems likely to clear waivers (player who clear waivers may be traded):
•Bronson Arroyo, Adam Dunn, Jose Guillen, Aaron Harang, Adrian Beltre, Aubrey Huff, Jason Giambi, Melvin Mora, Miguel Batista, Juan Cruz, Ty Wigginton, Ron Mahay, Willie Bloomquist, Lyle Overbay, Willy Taveras.
Some players who could clear waivers:
•Jon Garland, Doug Davis, Gil Meche, Alex Rios, Carl Pavano, Mark Hendrickson, Jhonny Peralta, Jamey Carroll, Ron Villone.
And some players who probably won’t clear waivers, but who could be dealt to a claiming team:
•Roy Halladay, Felix Hernandez, Heath Bell, Adrian Gonzalez, Marco Scutaro, Chad Qualls, Michael Wuertz, Brian Bannister, Josh Willingham, Gary Sheffield, David Eckstein, Jason Frasor, Mark Teahen.
Andy will get his 5th ring and retire after the season…
Interesting post Pete, I have been wondering for awhile now what the particulars of Pettitte’s bonuses are.
If he does reach $11 mil in salary for the year he will have earned it. A consistently healthy pitcher is extremely valuable, even if that pitcher is in the mid 4’s ERA-wise.
I doubt this would happen because I don’t think Andy would accept a lesser role, especially since he seems to want to spend time with his family now that his kids are getting older, but he’d be ideal as a #6 SP next year. CC, AJ, Joba, Hughes and a FA SP (Marquis? Lackey?) with Andy in the pen as spot starter, LR and with his pickoff move even a 1 inning guy when needed. Now that he’s getting older he wouldn’t have to pitch 200IP. He’d still get maybe 12 starts or so (Skip Joba or PH, someone gets injured), maybe pitch 120 IP and maybe he’d be fresher. But again, I doubt he’d be interested.
Incentive-laden contracts like this should be the norm! Just have to be slightly careful to structure them so they help the team more than the individual (e.g., Petite could pitch hurt, take a loss, but pad his innings numbers).
I hope Girardi is sprayed with amnesia gas from Cashman’s utility belt before every one of Andy’s starts in September.
It would be a little awkward if Andy was within an inning of one of the incentive thresholds and Joe pulled him early from a game.
Is there anyway we could arrest Carl Pavano for robbing the Yankees??
GB
I agree, but they will come because he is a line drive hitter. Of course if he could get some of that big papi juice he’d hit them high & far! LOL!
I like his upside a lot. I also think he’d benefit if he were higher in the batting order, but I like him where he is this year.
I wouldn’t want them to sign Lackey. He is going to require Burnett-level money and his arm has pushed him to the DL multiple times over the last few years, so he is just as risky as the AJ signing and I would hope the Yankees would only take on one of those type of contracts.
Trumpetman
August 3rd, 2009 at 4:08 pm
Christina25
You come on this blog and stir up trouble. Yesterday you brought up the issue of steroids and the yankees, when there is more information coming out daily that the Roid Sox were complicit and supported there players juicing up. It is karma, and the Roid Sox still suck !
—–
That’s wrong Trumpetman.
I think there is a good chance Andy will be back in ‘10 especially if he has a strong 2nd half with some strong starts. If the Yankees win a championship, he retires but if not, good chance he’s still in pinstripes. He is only 37 and seems to still have the fire judging by recent interviews I’ve seen (not to mention turning over the cooler the other day in the dugout). He’s a fierce competitor.
GB, ok – so it was ME that got a kick out of that……lol
Drive 4-5, sorry you were having a tough day, but glad I made you laugh!
Too bad Joe and Evan don’t remember that the Yankees beat Roy Halladay last out…..
Just a note about “Guess the Line Up”-
Starting tomorrow for about 2 weeks, I will be out of my office working at a client. I will do my best to keep “Guess the Line Up” going, but will not put my job in jeopardy for it.
Please follow these ground rules to make my life a little easier so I don’t pull the plug on the official game-
1) The game does not start until I say it does. The window for submissions for a 7pm game time is 2pm-3:40. There is no bonus for an early submission. Additionally, any entries after 3:40 (blog time) are disregarded
2) Please post your line ups with players and positions. I can’t chase people who post players only
3) I post a list of people whose submissions I have multiple times during the submission window. It is your responsibility to make sure you are on that list or I could have missed your line up.
4) If Pete posts a new thread, post your line up on the new thread. Once a new thread is up I don’t always go backwards to make sure there are no line ups.
That’s it for now. If everyone works with me, I should be able to keep the game going. I hope people were praciticing over the weekend. There was no winner two days in a row last week. We cannot allow Joe Girardi to elude the great LoHud minds.
Joe & Evan = 2 knuckleheads and a mic
Is there any way Carl Pavano could write a letter of apology to every Yankee fan in the world, then be loaded into a rocket and fired into the sun?
Erica since the Yankees are facing Halladay, I think Girardi is going to put Cody Ransom in the lineup at all 9 positions, just for the joy of seeing how happy it makes all his adoring fans on the LoHud Yankees Blog.
Isn’t it $11.5MM if he makes all but the last innings bonus?
I always felt that, from Andy’s point of view, most of those incentives were reachable fairly easily and that he took it figuring he’d end up somewhere close to $12MM.
Erica do you work for one of the “Big 4″? I’ve got a bunch of them over at my company now – always wondered what you guys were “calculating” on your laptops
betsy
August 3rd, 2009 at 4:18 pm
GB, ok – so it was ME that got a kick out of that……lol
Drive 4-5, sorry you were having a tough day, but glad I made you laugh!
Too bad Joe and Evan don’t remember that the Yankees beat Roy Halladay last out…..
————————————————————
I’d just hate to see you be corrupted by hanging around sick friends, Betsy. Your mental health is in danger just from this place to begin with.
Andy’s a battle tested warhorse, I would expect nothing less.
“Are you picking apart Alex?”
Are you new here?
“Joe & Evan = 2 knuckleheads and a mic”
I kind of like Joe and Evan. They are two of the smarter broadcasters on WFAN, everyone else is pretty retarded.
Andy will come back at a discount in 2010 to try to get his 6th ring — if they move the fences back.
L to the 2nd
August 3rd, 2009 at 4:23 pm
Erica do you work for one of the “Big 4?? I’ve got a bunch of them over at my company now – always wondered what you guys were “calculating” on your laptops
**
Haha. I don’t work for one of the big firms (thank goodness). Its more of a very large midsize.
Never trust what an accountant typing furiously is actually doing
Every team has had their Pavano! The Orioles had Albert Bell. The Red Sox their Lugo & Dice K. The Tigers their D-Train. It is just a thing that happens. I don’t care for Pavano’s attitude, but the Yankees knew that going into the agreement. I hope Pavano has a successful career in the NL, LOL!
As far as Pettite goes, I believe he is back in 2010 as a starter. He could be a bullpen longman or LH specialist as well if the Yanks were to be so fortunate to have healthy arms next year.
Once upon a time a pitcher was given a contract with incentive clauses. He pitched the innings. He earned the incentive $. The End.
“Too bad Joe and Evan don’t remember that the Yankees beat Roy Halladay last out…..”
Actually, the Yankees didn’t beat Halladay. They beat him around the Stadium, 5 runs in 7ip, but Roy got a ND as the Yankees won in extra innings. They haven’t beat Halladay since opening day last year, when Wang beat him because Melky took Roy deep.
“Once upon a time a pitcher was given a contract with incentive clauses. He pitched the innings. He earned the incentive $. The End.”
But did he live happily ever after?
I’ll have to agree w/Patrick on this one. Apart from a few clunkers at NYS and that horrorshow in Anaheim, Andy’s performed about as well as could be expected. His ERA on the road is very respectable 3.42.
He hasn’t missed a start. He averages over six innings per start.
$11M is obviously on the high side, but not egregiously so.
Patrick I never thought of using “Joe Benigno” and “smart” in the same sentence.
Although I do agree – Somers is all shtick, the Fat “Sports Doctor” is all ego, Craig Carton is a low-rent cross between Chris Russo & Howard Stern, who’s left? Richard Neer?
Wow! that’s a lot of money for a mediocre pitcher, but then nobody on this team is worth what they are getting….nobody!
With the money they all make. The Yankees should be in first place. 20 games in front of everybody!..not 1/2 game up for one more night. At the end of tomorrow it will be second place for sure against Roy Boy!
Ah…the under-achievers!
don’t you still have to actually make a trade if you pick someone off waivers?
so if the yankees for example pick alex rios off waivers (if he were put on waivers)- they don’t just get him for nothing – don’t they actually have to work out some sort of trade with the blue jays?
who’s left? Richard Neer?
He shoulda stuck to Rock n Roll. Horrible with sports..
What was the
A deal with Zach Grienke?
B the deal with Remy’s kid?
Anyone? thanks
Jim Pir-one :That’s wrong Trumpetman.
I’m not trying to be offensive. I was just making a comment about Red Sox fans making fun of the yankees for having players that have done steroids, and that all of this information coming out about Ortiz, Manny, and the organization is karma. I was just making a comment about that subject only.
“But did he live happily ever after?”
LOL. That info wasn’t in the trailer. You have to watch the whole movie to find out. I heard it’s coming out sometime around Halloween.
Andy at this point is basically an average starting pitcher.
If the Yanks keep him next year, he’ll be somewhat pricey because (without looking it up) I’d guess average starting pitchers get paid around $7MM – $9MM.
If he plays here next year, though, he’d probably be our #4 as an innings-limited Hughes probably is the #5. As much as I like Andy, I’d like to see the Yanks get a better pitcher for that #4 than an aging average pitcher.
Well I predicted Yanks 4-5 on this current trip. So far, they are 3-4 with two games left. Highly unlikey they will be Halladay and pretty unlikey Mitre will get a win. That puts them at 3-6 and maybe out of first place come Boston. I predict 2-2 against the Sox, probably not beating Beckett. If that is the case, they might be looking up at the Sox come Monday, and Tampa only 5.5 out now. That said, our “aces” had a horrific time in Chicago, giving up like 12 ER in 11 innings of work. If this is a playoff team, they must step up. A Rod and Robbie need to step up w/RISP or it could be a long weekend.
Andy has his flaws and made his share of mistakes, but he’s still a good guy.
Hendrix Schmendrix… Mr.Petitte has done well for himself. This was good deal for both parties. So far, Mr. P is proving he can stay healthy and keep the Yanks in the games he pitches. Thats all you can ask for from a preseason ordained 5th pitcher..
Uncle E nobody told Neer ‘NEW is gone….
“Ah…the under-achievers!”
How much would payroll need to be at to overachieve?
“If that is the case, they might be looking up at the Sox come Monday, and Tampa only 5.5 out now.”
Tampa is playing the Sox this week so one of them has to lose.
I see Andy finishing strong and winning 14 games again. I see a 14-10 season.
That’s why it’d be good to win this season, then we can send off the older, expensive players with some bling.
Who’s the best free agent pitcher? Lackey? He’ll probably re-up with the Angels. After that, there’s a drop off as far as front-end talent goes. Of course Washburn’s name will worm its way into the conversation.
Add to that the fact that Boston will be looking for pitching, too, in an already thin FA market. Someone will be overpaying (hopefully Boston).
Right now, we project CC/AJ/Joba/Hughes/?
Pettitte starts to look attractive once again, but how much longer can he keep up?
L to the 2nd
August 3rd, 2009 at 4:37 pm
Uncle E nobody told Neer ‘NEW is gone….
WNEW 102.7 the good old days
He was not that good there either come to think.
Pete, sometimes I think you have it in for Andy.
—————————–
Not saying there’s a link here, but who knows?:
I went to college in Albany when Andy was playing for the Albany-Colonie Yanks. I had a few friends who saw Pettitte at the Crossgates Mall and they recognized him. When they approached him to just chat or try to get an autograph, they said he was extremely rude and just completely blew them off.
That story stuck w/me for some reason. Sometimes athletes project a persona that is just that — a well-cultivated image that doesn’t reflect who that person truly is.
Bernie Williams, conversely, was known to be approachable and very friendly.
I’m not intimating that Pete has agenda because he doesn’t like Andy, but if he does it would fit the story that I heard.
Andy has always done a good job for this team. If his dumb manager gave him a team behind him once in a while, his record would be better…..of if the team behind him could hit when he’s on the mound, that would be a help also….Andy takes the ball every 5 days, doesn’t complain, does his job and doesn’t ever throw anybody else under the bus – he always takes responsibility for what he’s done. If he continues to pitch well I would be thrilled to see him back again next year.
RDM
August 3rd, 2009 at 4:36 pm
Well I predicted Yanks 4-5 on this current trip. So far, they are 3-4 with two games left.
————————————————————
You couldn’t predict snow while standing in a blizzard.
m
August 3rd, 2009 at 4:42 pm
Right now, we project CC/AJ/Joba/Hughes/?
Pettitte starts to look attractive once again, but how much longer can he keep up?
****
Those are the 4 pitchers I was projecting in my rotation. I am guessing we will obtain one via free agency (Hello, Rich Harden, it’s nice to meet you)
Don’t think the Yanks will sign Andy for next year.
m-
The loss of Wang really hurts, doesn’t it? He was a $15MM pitcher the Yanks were paying $5MM for, and next year’s projected rotation looked a lot better when it was CC/AJ/Wang (healthy and good)/Joba/Hughes than as CC/AJ/Joba/Hughes/?.
One of the off-season questions will be whether the Yanks step up and get (and pay for) a pitcher in the class of where they thought Wang would be before the season started.
I’m a big Andy Pettitte fan, as you and the other regulars here know, but I don’t think that pitcher is Andy.
GreenBeret7
You couldn’t predict snow while standing in a blizzard.
***
Earlier today it was torentially raining outside my window and weather.com said it was mostly sunny. LOL
RDM
If the yankees don’t take at least three out of four from the Red Sox then the series is a failure. Your right, CC and A.J. need to step it up and stop making excuses. Boston is their rival and they will face them in a potential ALCS showdown, so they have to beat them. CC needs to be an Ace and A.J. can’t have another meltdown.
GB can you sum up Greinke’s comments?
garth
August 3rd, 2009 at 4:46 pm
Pete, sometimes I think you have it in for Andy.
—————————–
Not saying there’s a link here, but who knows?:
I went to college in Albany when Andy was playing for the Albany-Colonie Yanks. I had a few friends who saw Pettitte at the Crossgates Mall and they recognized him. When they approached him to just chat or try to get an autograph, they said he was extremely rude and just completely blew them off
***
GARTH! I went to college in Albany too! Class of 2002. You?
GreenBeret7
August 3rd, 2009 at 4:47 pm
RDM
August 3rd, 2009 at 4:36 pm
Well I predicted Yanks 4-5 on this current trip. So far, they are 3-4 with two games left.
————————————————————
You couldn’t predict snow while standing in a blizzard
LOL – RDM may have predicted 4-5 but was hoping for 0-9.
Once a troll always a troll.
Or as they say – For whom the bell trolls, it trolls for thee.
Why do Trumpetman and RDM bother coming here?
I can’t imagine being so miserable day in and day out.
Uncle Ellsworth (turn off your mind relax and float downstream)
August 3rd, 2009 at 4:49 pm
GB can you sum up Greinke’s comments?
————————————————————
Yeah, Trader. What he said to the press was, “I have never been on a team as bad as this one is.” How appropriate that after shooting his mouth off, he goes out and throws a clunker like today?
I saw Pettitte pitch in Colonie too. It was 1994 and he was 21 years old. I wouldnt base an opinion as an adult on how anyone acted at age 21 and I certainly hope the courtesy would be extended to me too.
Wave,
I don’t think the Yanks need a pitcher of Wang’s caliber for 2010. Joba will basically be ready for a full innings load and he could very well be a #1 quality pitcher next year. We know how good Burnett and Sabathia are. Joba would essentially be filling the role we thought Wang would fill.
I think the Yanks need a veteran innings eater to fill the fourth or fifth spot of the rotation next year.
I could see the rotation being Sabathia-Burnett-Chamberlain-Pettitte-Hughes and I’d be really happy with that.
Well at least they won’t lose today…I Think!!!!
Erica – always OPPC
August 3rd, 2009 at 4:49 pm
GreenBeret7
You couldn’t predict snow while standing in a blizzard.
***
Earlier today it was torentially raining outside my window and weather.com said it was mostly sunny. LOL
————————————————————
Who knew that RDM wrote the forcasts for weather.com, huh?
“I wish that more contracts were structured this way.”
Agreed. Andy felt he didn’t deserve a pay cut if he pitched well. Yankees cited age and risk of injury.
Andy seems like the kind of guy who can live with less pay if he’s not contributing.
Everyone won.
1996 for me, Erica. SUNY Albany here.
No regrets at all. I met a girl on the first day of classes. We dated for the entire four years.
We’ve been married almost ten years now.
I don’t see Wang coming back and dominating again. The Yankees probably knew he had something wrong with him which is why they didn’t “lock him up” with a 6 year contract extension after his two 19 win seasons, and possibly a third last year if not for the Houston game. Sorry guys but i think Wang’s done.
Andy wasn’t nice enough to strangers at a mall in Albany?
Maybe he had just eaten a bad pretzel from Aunt Annies or a bad slice from Sbarro — perhaps we can cut him some slack for this third-hand account of unfriendliness.
In any case, when push came to shove, he drove Bernie’s son home.
Yea, I could see Pettitte being re-signed for around $6-8m. Since, Joba and Hughes will have their innings limits, I think it would be a good choice.
Once, Wang comes back you could put Joba, or Hughes in the pen, but then the rotation would only be CC/AJ/Andy/Wang. No worries! Since, we didn’t deal for Halladay, or Lee at the deadline we did not get rid of our pitching depth at Triple-A. That would leave Kennedy, McAllister,Nova,Mitre (I think he has an option for 2010) and Igawa in the wings.
So, if we re-sign Pettitte to another deal (a one-year deal) we could have a rotation of CC/AJ/Joba/Pettitte/Hughes and of course Wang waiting to come back late in the season.
It looks great on paper, but of course there are some bumps in the road.
Pitching, pitching pitching. Everybody needs it. Nick Cafardo wrote in today’s Globe
“Although the Yankees were criticized for sticking with Sergio Mitre as their No. 5 starter and not making a better bid to acquire Jarrod Washburn, they have four other starters who are pitching much better than Boston’s top four.”
http://www.boston.com/sports/b.....for_alarm/
Garth-
I love stories like that
Nick in SF-
Crossgates Mall isn’t just any mall. It’s pretty much the greatest mall in upstate New York.
Leaving work now. Bye everyone!
The greatest mall in upstate New York!
Well.
That’s saying something.
Uncle Ellsworth (turn off your mind relax and float downstream)
August 3rd, 2009 at 4:49 pm
GB can you sum up Greinke’s comments?
————————————————————
Yeah, Trader. What he said to the press was, “I have never been on a team as bad as this one is.” How appropriate that after shooting his mouth off, he goes out and throws a clunker like today?
———————————
GB-7
You are one scary dude!
Uncle Ellsworth and I are not the same person, but I just came online and was looking for the exact quote for Uncle E, when you addressed it, but used my blog name instead!!
Psychic?? If so, who will the Yankees pick up off waivers this month, and on what day? LOL
Garth, Erica
I live just 35 miles from Albany in MA. I loved it when the Yanks were playing there. It was a nice ballpark,but I think it now lies empty.
Patrick-
I’m not sure your 2010 rotation will do it.
Hughes will be innings limited, and probably have some growing pains in a starter role. Andy will be another year older.
The fall-off between what was hoped for Wang in 2010, and the pitcher that Andy probably will be in 2010, is very big.
If we had to go into the season with CC/AJ/Joba/Hughes/Pettitte I wouldn’t rule out winning the division, but I would be far from comfortable.
Maybe Nick in SF can regale us with tales of how he met his long-time companion?
some observations and complaints..
news from bahston… wakefield with sciataca, could be out 4 more weeks or more….ouch…
people talk about westmoreland like he is ajax, the guy is in single A….
lucky the sux are young and homegrown with guys like; smoltz, penny, wakefield, varitek, lowell, drew and the rest of the over 30 yr old gang. they act like vmartinez is a teenager, he is 30……………..
On second thought, please don’t.
The greatest mall in upstate New York!
Well.
That’s saying something.
I think the folks in Syracuse with their Carousel Mall would disagree.But Syracuse might be considered a part of Canada to many..especially in the winter:)
Giuseppe Franco
August 3rd, 2009 at 4:55 pm
Why do Trumpetman and RDM bother coming here?
I like coming here because I like to hear other opinions, and I like talking with other yankee fans. I will admit that my expectations for the yankees are sometimes too much.
Long-time companion?
I kind of got the impression that Nick is a “girl in every port” kind of guy.
Drive 4-5 is correct about the Carousel Mall being better than the Albany mall (I’m from Jersey, I know my malls).
If they ever build that destiNY U.S.A. thing
stuart a
Heck even youkilis is in his 30’s. The Red Sox are old and they are over hyped. That’s why I can’t understand why the yankee haven’t been able to beat them once this year.
MCA: and the point of making a stupid San Francisco/gay slur joke on the Yankee blog is…?
Drive 4-5, I grew up near Lake Ontario. One morning, we woke up with snow half-way up our front windows.
I’ve seen things that would make Canadians weep.
If the Sox are old, then we’re ancient.
The Cody Ransom situation will be cleared up when Brett Gardner comes off the DL which will be sooner rather than later.
Thanks GB and Trader
If we don’t bring back Andy, next year is:
CC
AJ
Joba
Hughes?
??????
Definitely need a starter, maybe 2 if they decide Hughes is a closer and not a starter. Just checking out the FA list, it isn’t anything like last year with big guns. John Lackey, Rich Harden and Jarrod Washburn are the big names. I say we try to trade for Haren/Halladay if not sign Lackey.
I see I’m not the only one who doesn’t like someone chiming in from left-field w/some idiotic statement meant to ridicule an entire area.
2010 is the least of the Yankees worries. (and mine as well)
ALfromBK – I agree about Lackey.
I’m not saying they absolutely need an AllStar for that 5th spot, but the advantage that Lackey has is that we all know what he brings to the table, and he won’t cost talent plus his contract. As a FA, he only costs money. Given the low cost and high talent level of Phil and Joba, the overall cost of the rotation wouldn’t be outrageous.
I would give it a serious think if I were Cash. (Probably good for the team that I’m not.:))
Tom in N.J.
August 3rd, 2009 at 5:16 pm
Drive 4-5 is correct about the Carousel Mall being better than the Albany mall (I’m from Jersey, I know my malls).
The funny thing is… I despise shopping and my wife would die laughing if she saw me do a mall comparison. I just know which malls I hate more … and it’s a tie with every one I’ve ever been in. lol I am a snow expert though and sold my house in the Berkshires the year after we set a state record with 17 1/2 feet.
Getting back to our beloved Yankees… I cant imagine how it going to work minimizing Joba’s starts and ininngs while Mitre is in the rotation. Something has to give. There arent too many appetizing options listed in GB7’s 4:12 PM post.
So you’re equating making a joke about ‘the greatest mall in upstate New York” with a bigoted slur?
Fair enough, but guess which kind of joke gets people banned from this site?
All this Carousel mall talk brings me back to my days at Syracuse where it started snowing in October and kept snowing through May. My car sat in a ice cocoon in a parking lot most of the time.
The year I lived in Brewster/Boland was literally akin to those stories your parents and grandparents would tell you about walking 2 miles uphill in the snow everyday both ways.
You had to walk upstairs to campus. A lot of stairs. Try doing that hungover at 8am in the snow.
Of course on the flip side all the snow definitely aided hooking up since who wanted to sleep alone on a cold snowy night.
Did anyone just hear ESPN’s Mike Wilbon, say I dont care about Ortiz and Manny being on the list. There are only 6 players that have been released. Wait until they all get released.
“They’re had to be from that 2004 AL Championship series, a half dozen Yankees on that list”
How quickly Wilbon brought the Yankees into it.
garth
August 3rd, 2009 at 4:46 pm
Pete, sometimes I think you have it in for Andy.
—————————–
Not saying there’s a link here, but who knows?:
I went to college in Albany when Andy was playing for the Albany-Colonie Yanks. I had a few friends who saw Pettitte at the Crossgates Mall and they recognized him. When they approached him to just chat or try to get an autograph, they said he was extremely rude and just completely blew them off.
That story stuck w/me for some reason. Sometimes athletes project a persona that is just that — a well-cultivated image that doesn’t reflect who that person truly is.
Bernie Williams, conversely, was known to be approachable and very friendly.
I’m not intimating that Pete has agenda because he doesn’t like Andy, but if he does it would fit the story that I heard.
——————————————————-
it doesn’t fit at all, I’ve played golf with Andy (and Roger) and Andy is one of the nicest, down to earth people I’ve ever met.
Al from BK,
Taking a look @the free agent crop for next year
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....ree-a.html
no one really jumps out as the perfect fit, unfortunately. I guess if Washburn doesn’t sign a deal w/Detroit and they don’t offer him arbitration he might be the one they target (they’ve been going after him hard for over a year now).
It’s a pretty damn good question.
MG,
Did Andy have the Death Stare when he addressed the ball like he does on the mound?
thanks MG for clarifying that. Like Nick in SF pointed out, what I heard was definitely second-hand.
Maybe Andy was just having a bad day. Good to hear it was just an aberration.
If the Yankees win the World Series, I think Andy retires.
If the Yankees lose or don’t make it to the World Series, I think he might come back for another year.
Manny would be a great FA pickup.
Drive 4-5
August 3rd, 2009 at 5:42 pm
MG,
Did Andy have the Death Stare when he addressed the ball like he does on the mound?
————————————————-
Only after he hit 3 consecutive tee shots on #9 OB on to the adjacent freeway (Interstate 280 in San Francisco)…
We always called those shots ‘Dionne Warwicks’ because I-280 goes down to San Jose from there.
Roger’s stare was much worse after he airmailed the green on #7 (after bombing a drive about 300 yards) and couldn’t find his ball in the rough.
Nick –
Malls are a touchy subject. I think that one was of Carlin’s seven words you can’t say.
I learned long ago – never ask a woman her age, her weight, or what mall she shops at.
Hope this All Helps.
Stealing Jason Bay from the Sox would really trigger a mass suicide watch in beantown.
m
the yanks are younger then the sux by far..
okajima, saito, wakefield, smoltz, varitek, drew, lowell, poopie, bay, martinez,penney,youkilis, they are all over 30…..there are others also..
the yanks over 30 players are; pettitte, aj(32), mo, jorge, jeter, arod, matsui, damon, hairston, molina, that is about it. but molina is gone next year, so is pettitte, so is matsui, so is hairston probably, and theyhave cervelli to replace molina, pena to replace hairston, ajax for the outfield and on and on… the yanks avg age is youner then the sux look it up on nespn…………
m
the yanks are younger then the sux by far..
okajima, saito, wakefield, smoltz, varitek, drew, lowell, poopie, bay, martinez,penney,youkilis, they are all over 30…..there are others also..
the yanks over 30 players are; pettitte, aj(32), mo, jorge, jeter, arod, matsui, damon, hairston, molina, that is about it. but molina is gone next year, so is pettitte, so is matsui, so is hairston probably, and theyhave cervelli to replace molina, pena to replace hairston, ajax for the outfield and on and on… the yanks avg age is youner then the sux look it up on nespn…………
““They’re had to be from that 2004 AL Championship series, a half dozen Yankees on that list”
How quickly Wilbon brought the Yankees into it.”
Wilbon is a clown, typical ESPN talking head ripping the Yankees.
One-eyed jack- Yep, definitely not a hall of fame talent available this off-season. Lackey is 31, maybe Lackey for 4 years 50 million, in this economy he might not get any better.
Eric, there’s no way Andy is in the rotation next year. CC, AJ, Joba, Phil…….they need a #3 pitcher and Andy is not that.
Garth, Andy is a really, really good guy. This wasn’t a celebrity golf tournament, I used to belong to a golf club where lots of major league players would come out and play when in town. I was the ‘designated member’ to play with them that day because the pro is a buddy of mine and knows how much I like the Yankees.
The funniest ballplayer I’ve ever played with, though, is Jose Lima-he is exactly the way in life he is during the game and grew up in NYC as well.
MG: 280? San Francisco Golf Club? Lake Merced GC? Ummmm… Crystal Springs?
Maybe Roger should have Dionne Warwick’s psychic hot-line for help finding his ball.
Nick, Lake Merced GC, I was a member there from 99-04, I no longer live in NorCal (unfortunately).
GB, my mental health can’t get much worse. I’m typing this from the local santitarium – I checked myself in at the trading deadline.
*called Dionne’s hot-line
would an edit button crash the servers?
Nick, I’ve played a bunch of rounds at SFGC, it would be tough to hit 280 from anywhere on the golf course…
stuart a,
But how many players do we have that will be older than, let’s say, Jeter?
Jeter, Alex, Rivera, Posada? About 1/5 of our core is old. Old, old, old.
We’ve been remarkably lucky this year as far as injuries go.
They make AJ look like a spring chicken. Well, he is, but that was one of the big arguments against signing him, even though he’s only a year older that Josh Bucket.
The funniest ballplayer I’ve ever played with, though, is Jose Lima-he is exactly the way in life he is during the game and grew up in NYC as well.
———————————
I’d rather play with Mrs Lima.
http://www.hogwild.net/images/.....-boobs.jpg
MG: I’ve never played at either, but I know where they both are but I had no idea how any of the SFGC holes were aligned with the freeway.
I’m not a good enough golfer to even aspire to playing a round there (more of a Harding/Sharp Park golfer) but my younger brother is. He would probably drive down from Tahoe tonight if I told him we had a tee time tomorrow.
Josh Bucket, lol………
Nick, SFGC is so well hidden it’s hard to find even if you know where you are going lol. You turn left off Brotherhood Way at a Church and there isn’t a single sign anywhere that tells you where the club is.
I know how you feel about golf courses, I’ve been very lucky in my life and played some of the great ones (including Cypress Point)-not bad for a kid from Brooklyn who started playing real golf courses at Silver Lake and Dyker Beach…
Oops. 1/5 of the 25 is old. The fraction of the “core” would be even higher.
I’m not saying it’s a bad thing or knocking the Yankees. But when we’re depending on Jeter, Jorge, Andy, and Rivera; and have Alex locked up into middle age, we’re in no position to snicker at how old the Red Sox are. You say we’re going to cut some older players loose, well so will the Sox. Smoltz certainly won’t be asked back. Wakefield may be back, but will be replaced by a much younger pitcher when he’s on the DL. And Varitek? Preemptive move by the Sox by signing V-mart.
I’m not clicking that link, no way no how.
Jose Lima’s wife has been responsible for more than one virus, methinks.
there’s an animated .gif of that pic of Lima’s wife.
funny stuff.
MCA-
completely clean. simply type in “jose lima wife” in google images.
MCA-
Now I got it – LOL!
MG: don’t tell, but once a buddy of mine and I hopped the fence from Brotherhood Way onto the SFGC, dropped a ball or three and took a few shots.
Cypress is one I’ve wanted to play ever since I read a great book called “The Match” (by Mark Frost) which recounts a legendary 1956 match there with pros Byron Nelson and Ben Hogan on one side and a young amateurs Ken Venturi and Harvie Ward on the other. It’s a great book on a few levels and I recommend it very highly. So much so, in fact…:
http://www.amazon.com/Match-Ga.....1401302785
As far as the Red Sox looking at Martinez to replace Varitek next year –
1. I thought the word is that Martinez best catching atribute is his bat? Is this incorrect?
2. If the Sox pitchers depend so much on Varitek’s pitch calling skills behind the plate, then almost anybody else will result in a drop-off, no?
I think one of the best things about Cervelli is how hard he worked at being one with his pitcher. The Red Sox would probably kill to have a talent like Frankie in their organization. One thing about Cash, he seems to have recognized the importance of young arms and young catching prospects.
Sadly, I really did catch a nasty virus when that pic first came out.
That poor old IBM Thinkpad, it never did anything to anyone. It didn’t deserve that.
MG-
What makes Jose Lima funny?
Uncle Ellsworth (turn off your mind relax and float downstream)
August 3rd, 2009 at 4:49 pm
GB can you sum up Greinke’s comments?
————————————————————
Yeah, Trader. What he said to the press was, “I have never been on a team as bad as this one is.” How appropriate that after shooting his mouth off, he goes out and throws a clunker like today?
———————————
GB-7
You are one scary dude!
Uncle Ellsworth and I are not the same person, but I just came online and was looking for the exact quote for Uncle E, when you addressed it, but used my blog name instead!!
Psychic?? If so, who will the Yankees pick up off waivers this month, and on what day? LOL
————————————————————
I’m more psychotic than psychic.
Tunnel Man
August 3rd, 2009 at 6:12 pm
MG-
What makes Jose Lima funny?
——————————————-
this sounds like a line from Good Fellas, I’m not going to touch it lol
actually, Jose is just out there, he could hit a golf ball 100 yards right or 100 yards left and laugh it off. You could just see he loves life and this was a year he was with the Tigers and had an ERA that must have been over 10.
Nick, I had a once in a lifetime opportunity to play Cypress Point and it was one of the best days in my life, what a place to play golf. My host did tell me, though, that the Frost book, while a good read, has many inaccuracies (not that they bothered me at all, I read the book and thoroughly enjoyed it).
Betsy
August 3rd, 2009 at 5:49 pm
GB, my mental health can’t get much worse. I’m typing this from the local santitarium – I checked myself in at the trading deadline.
————————————————————
Well, at least you’re getting help and the rest of us are safe from your homicidal tendencies.
Does anybody have any thoughts on how the Red Sox lied about
Remy’s son and the other kid and threw them under the bus?
Well more bad news on the Yankee farm injury front. Manny Banuelos was removed from the Charleston/Lexington game with what they think is a lower leg injury. I thought there was something wrong with him back in mid July when he was knocke around. He got hit hard again tonight. His strikeouts are down and walks and hits are up. They needed to shut him down soon anyway. He’s over 50 innings than last year.
BTW Joe and Evan just talked about “Hinski with your Best shot” giving props to Pete, The commenters here and Sterling for not using a phrase of his own concoction.
Joe added “Fire away” needs to be part of that.
everytime I turn on the radio someone is talking about this Blog. maybe not everytime but….
Betsy, here is a way to significantly improve your mental health immediately-stop worrying so much about the Yankees pitching. Que sera sera, I doubt they send you any ‘Get Well’ cards when you aren’t feeling well…
I think there is a good chance the Yanks will sign Pettitte for next year….they are not going to pay big money for another pitcher….Rich Harden or whoever
If the Yankees sign Rich Harden this winter, they’d better sign his backup, then, because he can’t stay healthy.
Some people who could be waived & outrighted or traded are as follows:
SP/RP Justin Duchscherer A’s $3,900,000 might slip thru Waivers.
SP Roy Halladay $14,250,000
OF Alex Rios $6,400,000
OF Vernon Wells $4,687,500
OF Eric Byrnes $11,666,666
SP Doug Davis $8,750,000
SP Jon Garland $6,250,000
SP Barry Zito $18,500,000
SP Randy Johnson $8,000,000
SP Jake Westbrook $10,000,000
RP Kerry Wood $10,000,000
DH Travis Hafner $11,500,000
Inf Jhonny Peralta $3,650,000
SP Erik Bedard $7,750,000
SP Carlos Silva $12,250,000
SP Johan Santana $18,876,139
SP Oliver Perez $12,000,000
OF/1B/DH Adam Dunn $8,000,000
OF Austin Kearns $8,000,000
SP Daniel Cabrera $2,600,000
RP Danys Baez $7,166,666
3B Melvin Mora $8,000,000
DH Aubrey Huff $8,000,000
SP Brett Myers $12,083,333
SP Aaron Harang $14,000,000
RP Francisco Cordero $12,125,000
SP Bronson Arroyo $10,125,000
SP Jason Marquis $9,875,000
RP Aaron Cook $9,375,000
OF Brad Hawpe $5,500,000
1B/DH Todd Helton $16,600,000
1B/3B/DH Garrett Atkins $7,050,000
SP Gil Meche $11,400,000
OF/DH Jose Guillen $12,000,000
CL Joe Nathan $11,250,000
Jim,
Not really. The Yankees circled the wagons the same way by distancing themselves from mcnamee & yuri sucart.
What’s really interesting, though, is how Remy could not have any idea of what was going on in his son’s life. Especially sent the son spent so much time around the team. Huh.
GB7,
That’s too bad. Hopefully, it’s nothing serious.
yuri sucart isn’t he friends with papi too?
“Well more bad news on the Yankee farm injury front. Manny Banuelos was removed from the Charleston/Lexington game with what they think is a lower leg injury. I thought there was something wrong with him back in mid July when he was knocke around. He got hit hard again tonight. His strikeouts are down and walks and hits are up. They needed to shut him down soon anyway. He’s over 50 innings than last year.”
is there a reason why they’ve pushed him 50 innings over…or is it normal when your dealing with smaller increments of innings
“yuri sucart isn’t he friends with papi too?”
ding ding ding
I’m sure George Mitchell looked into that.
/end sarcasm
Highly recommend listening to Bill Simmons’ webcast on ESPN about the Red Sox (currently the espn.com feature article)
he calls a diehard Yanks fan and they discuss the Sox woes, the ridiculous Mitchell report…
GB, I don’t know if I should laugh or cry….I was about to LOL at your post and then I saw your update on Banuelos. Oy – this is getting ridiculous. Leg injuries can lead to arm injuries due to overcompensating for the injuries, so DL him or whatever it takes to get the kid healthy.
MG, I’m going to try taking things one day at a time. Tonight at least, I can relax, lol
Rayvt,
how could you include Halladay (or prob Dunn) on that list?
Also, Randy Johnson is done.
Johan Santana is an interesting case. The Red Sox would prob claim him but you never know. He could actually clear because of his contract.
the following is from this morning, but it is such a blunder by cashman i’m postng it again:
the cost of not having a consistent solid 5.50 era fifth starter is that the team knows it and tends to press in the other games they know they need to win.
the yankees need someone in the 5th starter role who is good enough that the team isn’t dreading the spot coming up in the rotation.
it’s a negative emotional sink hole for the team at the present that puts pressure on the other 4 starters..
it’s cashman’s achille’s heel that he almost always has trouble with this fifth starter role.
he had it covered this year before he turned two starters into short relievers in hughes and aceves.
you can’t stick a guy like livan hernandez at triple a so it’s difficult to stock pile veteran 5th starters.
so it makes it questionable what cashman was thinking in taking his two triple a starters and making them into short relievers.
there was an obvious need for the 7th and 8th inning , but does it really help to take the 6th and 7th starters to fill this gap when they are your 5th starter replacements?
i think they should have been left as starters and quality relievers found.
if the logic that joba should start because 6 innings is more valuable than 2 innings, then hughes and aceves should have stayed stretched out as starters.
cashman has played his hand in a way that puts the yankees into a problematic situation that doesn’t appear to have an immediate solution.
I think the Yanks will end up with Justin Duchscherer and supposedly he is not injured now, bt missed his rehab start due to personal reasons.
pettitte is 37 and in decline this is it. he will retire…
no chane he will be back…
damon has had 4 nice years. not worth $13 mill per but the yanks overpay for everything but he has done a good job and is a very good player……
was just poking around looking at the yanks players career stats, man Jeter has had a great career. worst hitting year was 290 + avg… he is one of the best in many many years at SS. this may be his lowest error year ever….
Rayvt,
what makes you think the Red Sox will let Duchscherer pass through waivers? they are needy as well.
it’s a close one.
BD,
I love it when he talks to that Yanks fan friend. Thanks for the heads up.
m
August 3rd, 2009 at 6:31 pm
GB7,
That’s too bad. Hopefully, it’s nothing serious.
============================================================
Charleston is playing a double header tonight, so maybe a follow-up before the end of the broadcast.
BD 2.0
August 3rd, 2009 at 6:38 pm
They can put these guys on there and if someone claims them, then they could negotiate a deal for them. So they will run them out there I believe. Now in some cases the other team may say just take that contract away on the waiver claim.
Rayvt,
I believe if someone puts a claim in, the player can either be pulled back or the team who claimed him inherits his contract.
I dont think you can trade a guy if a claim if put in. The only way a player can be traded is if they pass through waivers unclaimed.
I could be wrong but that’s my understanding.
BD 2.0
August 3rd, 2009 at 6:42 pm
Timing is everything! With the Yankees only having a ½ game lead over the RoidSox it could switch in a heartbeat the other way around. Also, Toronto could wait until a few more teams are out of it to put Halladay in the mix & drive a trade.
Betsy
August 3rd, 2009 at 6:37 pm
GB, I don’t know if I should laugh or cry….I was about to LOL at your post and then I saw your update on Banuelos. Oy – this is getting ridiculous. Leg injuries can lead to arm injuries due to overcompensating for the injuries, so DL him or whatever it takes to get the kid healthy.
————————————————————
They took him out after 3.2 innings. It could be anything from a calf pull to a cramp, but, should know something before the end of the night. He’s a small, skinny kid so they won’t push him much longer this year. He should be at his innings limit, anyway.
m,
it’s a good listen. as much as I don’t like Bill Simmons because he’s such a Sox fan, he’s not naive and he usually says it like it is. Plus he’s pretty funny
BD 2.0
August 3rd, 2009 at 6:45 pm
If a team claims someone, then they can negotiate a trade, pull back the waiver, or let the waiver claim go thru.
BD 2.0
Great listen. Of course, no article from Bill.
m -
The Yankees distanced themselves, yes. But the Yuri and Brian were actually true.
The RS just paid off Remy’s son and the other kid to take the fall. What’s the likelihood that the 2 were dealing or helping get the stuff, but not for the 2 main roidies on the team. Like you said, elder Remy had no idea. Please.
The worst will be when Remy recovers, he’ll come back to commentate the team and act like nothing with his son ever happened, when he should be angry that now his son has been branded and will be lucky to get a job with another baseball team.
Rayvt,
that’s true… of course I hope the Yanks don’t lose first place because this blog will implode (and it prob means the Sox win 3 of 4 this weekend).
but regarding waivers specifically, that would work.
$11 million for a .500 pitcher with an ERA near 5.00??!! Sounds like a Hank Steinbrenner deal.
BC 2.0 -
It’s my understanding that you are correct on everything except…
If a team is the first eligible that puts a claim on a player, then they can trade for that player or be awarded the player along with his contract.
Rayvt,
thanks… after I posted I started remembering cases where there were trades.
forget my post, rayvt’s got it.
well good 4 him since this prob his last contract..i ssy probably with a lot of hope lol
The padres just released Mark Prior, should the Yankees take a flyer?
BD 2.0
August 3rd, 2009 at 6:45 pm
Also, if a team does claim a player put on waivers, they can’t back out of the claim by themselves so they could ultimately have to pay the price which could be very expensive.
Plus when teams put players on waivers a team can’t block them all because they could get stuck getting someone with a contract. LOL! Like Zito! Ouch! O. Perez! Whereas if a player like that got thru then the team could negotiate a more palatable deal. ½ contract for xyz player.
Jim,
I’ve been meaning to give a friend of mine a call who works for the Sox (and was really close with Manny and Ortiz) to see if he’s heard any in-house chatter.
If there was something going on, it may be able to avoid the media for a little while, but the Red Sox employees might know something and talk about it amongst themselves.
I’d like to hear more talk about hte Mitchell Report and how this could have been missed (though we all can guess).
who will pass through the waiver wire and be worth taking a chance on? Wouldn’t it be funny if it were Halladay… ah dreams…
Betsy, I was just watching a segment on the MLB network about pitching and John Hart, an experienced Major League exec, said they always figured it took 10 pitching prospects to eventually get 2 decent major league pitchers. Maybe you are expecting too much from each and every prospect, most of them aren’t going to pan out anyway.
Mark Prior is worth a tryout at least.
Is it too early to say that this month is going to either make or break the Yanks?
August figures to be a tough month,
5 with the White Sox (2 already played)
5 with Toronto
7 with Boston
4 with Seattle
3 with Oakland
3 with Texas
1 with Baltimore
BD 2.0
Cant wait. Those poor kids are going to be blackballed because of the Red Sox lies
if a dead last team like the Padres don’t think Prior is worth a dime… I really don’t think he’s worth the paper the flyer is printed on-. so to speak.
Rayvt
August 3rd, 2009 at 7:01 pm
Mark Prior is worth a tryout at least.
———————————————–
I doubt he’s worth anything to a major league club after all this…
SAN DIEGO — The Padres are cutting their ties with pitcher Mark Prior, who was trying to get back to the Major Leagues following two significant shoulder surgeries in the last three years.
Prior, who was making $15,000 a month on a Minor League contract he signed with the Padres in January, had a setback in late April when he reported soreness in his shoulder while rehabilitating in Arizona.
Prior, who will be released from his Minor League contract, possibly as soon as Saturday, hadn’t reached the point where he was throwing to live hitters when he reported soreness in his shoulder.
“The poor guy just can’t seem to get over the hump. He is doing everything possible for him to come back. … I hope it works out for him,” Padres manager Bud Black said at the time of the setback.
Prior, who is a San Diego native, was trying to return to the Major Leagues after the two surgeries to his right shoulder, the first in 2007 by renowned orthopedic surgeon Dr. James Andrews to repair a 180-degree tear of his labrum as well as a split of the shoulder capsule.
Then, on the heels of a year-long recovery and rehabilitation program, Prior suffered a serious setback when he tore the anterior capsule in his shoulder, a gruesome injury of sorts that saw the capsule tear away from the humerus bone. He had surgery last June.
I didn’t realize that Remy was out. I was going to ask what he said on the broadcasts, but I figure the cats here were too cool to watch NESN.
Weird how no one, even the Boston papers, knew that these guys were fired nearly 10 months ago. huh.
Paul Byrd, SP
Sidney Ponson, SP
Mark Mulder, SP
MG, that’s interesting what John Hart said. We’re very lucky to have Joba and Hughes because they really could be top of the rotation starters – anything else we develop from our system would be gravy. I’ve got patience for the kids overall, but it IS hard to develop them in NY, with the urgency to win. That’s why it’s important to surround them with solid pitchers, to the pressure on them isn’t there.
MG,
thanks for the article. I just figured the pads were tired of paying him 15,000 a month to rehab.
Rayvt, give me one reason that any of these pitchers could help a major league team down the stretch other than we recognize the names and that they could pitch at a major league level sometime in the past. Do you really thing any of them could outpitch Aceves as the #5 guy from here on?
Paul Byrd, SP
Sidney Ponson, SP
Mark Mulder, SP
…………………..
None of the above are capable of even eating garbage innings for a Single A team.
Betsy, Al Leiter was on the same segment and was showing why pitchers like Volquez and Brandon Webb got hurt. With Volquez’ motion it was more like a matter of time, not that anyone overpitched him. Leiter is a smart guy and showed exactly how Volquez put strain on his elbow with every pitch and then showed the same thing about Webb putting strain on his shoulder.
The other thing to note is that major league teams aren’t nearly as worried about elbow problems and TJ surgery as shoulders-pitchers come back from TJ surgery as strong as before but shoulders are usually the things that end careers (or diminish skills significantly).
“None of the above are capable of even eating garbage innings for a Single A team.”
In other words, Cashman is on the phone with their agents as we speak.
Ivan Nova, RHP (Age 22) – 2.19 ERA, 34/52 BB/K between AA Trenton and AAA Scranton
Zach McAllister, rhp (Age 21) 1.79 ERA – .220 BAA – 23/66 BB/K in 80.2 IP in AA Trenton
Wilkin De La Rosa, LHP (Age 24) – 3.57 ERA, 23/57 BB/K between A+ Tampa and AA Trenton
Alan Horne
Kei Igawa SWB
Josh Towers SWB
LHP Zach Kroenke (5-1, 0.89) SWB (Bullpen & Spot starts limited pitch count 50-60 pitches)
Ryan Pope, SP TRN/SWB
Jim Pir-one
August 3rd, 2009 at 7:03 pm
BD 2.0
Cant wait. Those poor kids are going to be blackballed because of the Red Sox lies
————————————————————
Those two are hardly “kids”. Remy is 30 years old and Cyr is 27 years old. They knew what they were doing.
MG
August 3rd, 2009 at 7:16 pm
I can’t see any of them contributing! But that is basically what is available for free. LOL! I also listed some top options in AAA & AA, which is limited too. Actually, of both lists I showed, the new kid is probably the best option, Hirsch. 6′-8″ former #1 draft pick out of Astros organization who had an almost 8.00 ERA in Colorado at home and a good ERA for away games & he is 1 yr removed from TJ surgery. I think he could do ok.
Ray, those stats on Nova aren’t even close, where did you get them? His ERA at Scranton is 4.93 in 34 innings and doesn’t have a good strikeout to walk ratio. He may be a pitcher for the Yankees in the future but isn’t ready now.
No one from Trenton is ready either, you don’t jump 2 levels in one shot unless you’re Joba Chamberlain and throw 98 mph, none of these guys are even close.
Towers has major league experience, but why would he be a better rotation fit than Aceves? Maybe he could fill a long reliever role.
I haven’t seen Kroenke pitch but he might be a candidate for promotion in September, he’s a lefty but from what I read is more of a control pitcher than overpowering.
Got anyone else? I hear Mudcat Grant, Rick Rhoden, and Doug Drabek are available.
Hirsch pitched 5 shutout innings at Scranton the other day, no walk and 7 K’s. But, again, why mess with any of these guys in the rotation, just put one of them in the bullpen and start Aceves.
“Cant wait. Those poor kids are going to be blackballed because of the Red Sox lies”
Remy’s a 30 year old roided up woman beater. Cyr is 27 and calls the subterranean haven that is mother’s basement home. Both were working $11 per hour security gigs. Must have been because they lost their high level executive jobs with IBM.
MG, Kroenke is a relief pitcher, but, averages about two innings a game. He’s got pretty good numbers, except for about 4 walks a game. WHUP is 1.04. His stuff is about like Pettitte’s.
***WHIP*** is 1.04. His stuff is about like Pettitte’s.
“I’d like to hear more talk about hte Mitchell Report and how this could have been missed (though we all can guess).”
No time travel machine? Mitchell Report was issued in 2007. This kid Cyr got picked up asleep at the wheel with steroids in his car 6 months later.
GreenBeret7
August 3rd, 2009 at 7:47 pm
MG, Kroenke is a relief pitcher, but, averages about two innings a game. He’s got pretty good numbers, except for about 4 walks a game. WHUP is 1.04. His stuff is about like Pettitte’s.
—————————————————
GB, that’s what I figured, the walks are the problem, 4 walks a game at Scranton is probably 6 per game in the AL East and that would be trouble. I read they are stretching him back into a starter, is that true? Or maybe they see him as long relief. Coke has the better stuff, I wouldn’t be surprised to see them turn Coke back into a starter next year, he might be better suited for that than situational relief.
it seems like the kid with the most potential for 2011 is McAllister, he’s been good at every level and doesn’t walk many. Only 21, though, patience is needed lol
How to MS. Roberts miss the two other huge names on the 2003 list Ortiz and Manny?
MG
August 3rd, 2009 at 7:54 pm
GreenBeret7
August 3rd, 2009 at 7:47 pm
MG, Kroenke is a relief pitcher, but, averages about two innings a game. He’s got pretty good numbers, except for about 4 walks a game. WHUP is 1.04. His stuff is about like Pettitte’s.
—————————————————
GB, that’s what I figured, the walks are the problem, 4 walks a game at Scranton is probably 6 per game in the AL East and that would be trouble. I read they are stretching him back into a starter, is that true? Or maybe they see him as long relief. Coke has the better stuff, I wouldn’t be surprised to see them turn Coke back into a starter next year, he might be better suited for that than situational relief.
————————————————————
It would appear that they are stretching him out. He had a 4 inning game on the 27th and he’s got a start tonight, 3 innings, so far. 0 hits, 1 walk, 1 strikeout.
McAllister could be up by next summer. They shut him down for 3 weeks with a “tired arm”.
GB, you are the man when it comes to prospects, what do you think of McAllister?
jennifer -
I think she specifically asked about ARod. I don’t think she had access to the whole list. IIRC.
Patrick from CT
August 3rd, 2009 at 4:13 pm
Andy will get his 5th ring and retire after the season
————————————————————
why is he getting traded to another team before the playoffs???
j/k
MG, I hope the Yankees encourage proper mechanics in their youngsters. I think Phil is considered to have excellent mechanics, but Joba? Not so much. I always remember Tom Seaver emphasizing how important a strong lower body is because that’s where most of the power comes from. Those who use their arms too much are prone to the serious types of injuries….(not that injuries can’t happen regardless of mechanics, given that it is an unnatural thing…..)
How come shoulder injuries are considered quite a bit more serious than elbow injuries? I never quite understood that……thanks!
Betsy, Al Leiter explained that-the elbow can be reconstructed and brought back to full strength, the should has lots of thin tissue in the rotator cuff that is much more difficult to repair. Just look at Mark Prior’s surgeries, he’s had everything fixed and will never get back.
The mechanics thing is a tough one-you can’t reteach a pitcher throwing 95 like Volquez to do it with less stress on his elbow when his motion is the thing that gives him velocity. You just have to live with it, clean it up as best you can without taking anything away, and wait for the inevitable.
Joba’s mechanics seem a little off sometimes, certainly not fluid like Seaver’s, but he has a very strong lower body (legs, hips, etc) and, according to Leiter, that is the most important thing of all because that’s where power can be generated without huge amounts of stress. I wasn’t anything better than a bench warming pitcher on a mediocre division 3 college team (we had no pitching coach) but the only advice I ever got was to drive off my lower body when throwing and that always seeemed to help.
at the same time, Hughes seems to have great mechanics, that’s one of the reasons I’ve always thought he would be a terrific major league pitcher.
It’s possible that Phil Hughes represents the next step in human evolution.
GB7
It’s 2-1 Scranton. Two run hr for Miranda.
Kroenke gave up a hr to Brian Anderson. Other than that he has pitched well.
I’m watching it on NESN.
MG, thanks for the explanation. I like Al Leiter – I’m sorry I missed that segment. I also feel sorry for Mark Prior – or any player whose career just falls apart due to injury.
When Veras was still on the team, I always wondered why they couldn’t just fake an injury and rework his mechanics while he was on the DL. I guess it’s not as easy as I thought, lol.
I think the Yankees tweaked Joba’s mechanics in ST because they didn’t think he was using his legs enough. I’ve seen plenty of fans seriously freak out on the Yankees because because Joba was struggling with velocity and control for a long time, and they blamed the team for “ruining” him. I really think that’s unfair. They were, after all, trying to protect Joba.
“yuri sucart isn’t he friends with papi too?”
Yuri is Arod’s cousin. He works for Arod not for Papi. You may have been thinking about Angel Prestinal. This guy has a gym in DR and lot of athletes work out in the winter time including Papi,Manny, Arod,Delgado,Guererro,Cano. Prestinal was banned by MBL because he is a steroid supplier.
Is there a website that says who’s been placed on waivers on what their status is.
Generally, everybody gets placed on waivers. It’s a commonality.
“It’s possible that Phil Hughes represents the next step in human evolution.”
I think that honor belongs to Mo, but Phil can be included in the group
“I hope the Yankees encourage proper mechanics in their youngsters. I think Phil is considered to have excellent mechanics, but Joba? Not so much. I always remember Tom Seaver emphasizing how important a strong lower body is because that’s where most of the power comes from.”
Well if Seaver is right then Phil doesn’t particularly have good mechanics, does he? He’s not a particularly drop and drive guy.
Joba may get out of sync with his mechanics like AJ does but I’m still not sure how “bad” they are.
The more I hear about people talk about mechanics – the less certainty I think there is out there. No one – not former pitchers, long time pitching coaches, kinesiologists, physical therapists, seem to be able to come up with a valid theory for what good vs. bad mechanics are.
It’s most often – only after the pitcher gets hurt – that people start pointing out his flaws. Which is what we’re seeing with Volquez. If his mechanics were so bad why did Cincy trade Josh Hamilton for him?
Tim Lincecum was bar none the best pitcher in college in 2006. He fell to pick 10 of that draft in part because teams didn’t like his “mechanics.”
This was best seen in the case of Mark Prior. Out of college he was almost universally thought to have near perfect mechanics. He got hurt and all of a sudden “experts” came out of everywhere to tell everyone what was wrong and how bad his mechanics were. It was ridiculous.
The other variety of analysis that we see a lot of in the age of the internet is video analysis of mechanics which is always great. They look at short bursts of video from limited angles and then make pronouncements from above.
For instance, Phil Hughes has been described in such analysis as having bad mechanics that make him prone to injuring his arm.
And that’s the outcome of most of these analyses of mechanics – bold predictions that the pitcher will invariably hurt himself. I get the sense that the real purpose of those analysis is to prove how “smart” the analyst is. So that afterwards he can say, if there is an injury, “Just as I predicted pitcher X is now hurt…”
And there’s a real question as to whether any one set of mechanics would even be viable for all pitchers and across different eras of the game.
People talk about Seaver with his mechanics all of the time. But in classic drop and drive mechanics it’s more difficult to generate a strong downward plane on the ball and keep it down in the zone. In an age in which hitters hit for such power that might be a huge minus of that style of throwing which makes it non-viable. Some people have also suggested that Seaver style mechanics worked best in the past because of the larger strike zone. With today’s smaller zones Seaver style mechanics don’t allow for the accuracy in location needed.
The whole area seems like a huge muddle. But one in which each person is certain that they understand what “good” and “bad” mechanics are.
I’m sure there are some issues that can be widely agreed upon as poor mechanics. But the whole thing is a mess on the whole with little valid consensus.
MG
August 3rd, 2009 at 8:02 pm
GB, you are the man when it comes to prospects, what do you think of McAllister?
————————————————————
I don’t think that I’m “the man”. More like the “Pain In The —”. The ones that I know best are the ones that come through the SALLY League and FSL. I read up on the others and listen to the radio feeds or if I can get them, on MILB-TV.
McAllister has a chance to be pretty good. Probably a three/4 pitcher type. Good stuff and he had 158 innings last year, so innings linitations should not be a problem when he arrives. H should fit right in at the back of Sabathia/Burnett, Chamberlain and Hughes. I’d look for Pettitte reupping with NYY next year.
Anyone heard about a mutli team trade that would have sent Felix Hernandez to Boston and somehow Adrian Gonzales to Seattle? I heard that tail end of it on Seattle news radio. Just curious
I think Mo represents something more divine than human.
will Jeter end up with more HRs than David Wright??
Kroenke looked great tonight. Very good control and other than the homer, not much was hit hard. It’ll be interesting to see him get 6 innings next start. 63 pitches in 5 innings is ecomomy.
GreenBeret7
August 3rd, 2009 at 8:42 pm
Kroenke looked great tonight. Very good control and other than the homer, not much was hit hard. It’ll be interesting to see him get 6 innings next start. 63 pitches in 5 innings is ecomomy.
————————————————
What’s the book on Dunn? He looked good that inning.
David (In Seattle), here’s the info you’re looking for:
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....-deal.html
Anyone watching the Mets game? They were talking about Brandon Webb and whether or not the DBacks would pick up his option for next season (I believe it’s 8.5 million).
I just thought it was interesting because it seems like and Wang are in very similar situations. Two sinkerball pitchers who were aces a couple years ago and have now undergone shoulder surgery. The only difference is the Diamondbacks have an option on Webb next season and Wang is still in arbitration.
“This was best seen in the case of Mark Prior. Out of college he was almost universally thought to have near perfect mechanics. He got hurt and all of a sudden “experts” came out of everywhere to tell everyone what was wrong and how bad his mechanics were. It was ridiculous.”
I’m so glad you mentioned Prior. I remember when he first started breaking down a few years ago, “experts” were all claiming how he had bad mechanics. And as you said, it was those same people who all praised his same mechanics when he was dominant.
There is so much being said today on the internet, on tv, in print, etc. that so many “experts” are allowed to walk both sides of the fence without getting called out on it. The constant noise lets these people get away with their hypocrisy.
The Mark Prior example has been eating away at me for the last few years!
CB, very good analysis, at the end of the day, every pitcher hurts him arm/shoulder/elbow, it’s how they recover that determines whether they have a long career or not. In the old days they pitchers just kept going through the pain, they knew if they said they were hurting it could be the end of their careers because someone would take their place.
Question
If a team has no intention on trading a player why place them on waivers? What is the purpose?
MaineYankee
August 3rd, 2009 at 8:45 pm
GreenBeret7
August 3rd, 2009 at 8:42 pm
Kroenke looked great tonight. Very good control and other than the homer, not much was hit hard. It’ll be interesting to see him get 6 innings next start. 63 pitches in 5 innings is ecomomy.
————————————————
What’s the book on Dunn? He looked good that inning.
————————————————————
Big fastball and no idea where it’s going. A converted outfielder.
CB – I liked your analysis of those who analyze pitching mechanics. I can tell when a pitcher stays balanced, and when the delivery seems relatively effortless. But there doesn’t seem to be much correlation between those attributes and staying healthy. I just appreciated your willingness to acknowledge that there’s a certain “who knows?” aspect to projecting durability.
P.S. During the winter we discussed the Sox pursuit of Texeira, and my view that it was critical in bolstering an aging lineup. He’s been a little streaky, but his value to the Yankees is huge (especially given the fact that he’s not on the Sox). He’s done for their lineup what I had him doing in Boston (before my dreams were dashed).
But, at least VMart gives them an opportunity to rotate five players in four positions (with Ortiz, Tek and Lowell qualifying as aging).
Wow Haren is awful today! Spotted a 6 run lead, he is in the process of handing it back.
Also where can I find the number of homeruns hit in each park. Seems like Shea, um I mean citi field has yielded a lot of hr’s lately.
dunn can’t find the plate
This is Dunn’s problem. As soon as he gets a runner on, he gets wild. He’s finished right about now.
“Also where can I find the number of homeruns hit in each park. Seems like Shea, um I mean citi field has yielded a lot of hr’s lately.”
82 homers hit at Citifield heading into tonight.
brandon webb had surgery & they said his shoulder is not nearly as bad as first thought.
best case scenario is what arizona is saying.
pawtucket has bases loaded 1 out & edwar ramirez is coming in.
Pitchers with good mechanics generally have a strong leg drive off the mound thus putting less reliance on their arms, elbows, and shoulders.
The best references to this would be Nolan Ryan and Tom Seaver both of who saw very little time on the DL and attributed this to strong leg conditioning.
inning over,no runs,2-1 scranton winning
Dan Haren = Overrated
Brandon, have you actually ever watched Haren pitch or are you just being a smartass because he gave up some runs tonight? He’s one of the best pitchers in baseball and has shown that every year since 2006.
The Mets are scoring runs off him LOL…com’on man.
Brandon
Would you like Haren on the Yankees staff?
No.
If he’s a FA yeh, trading prospects for him, hell no.
Brian,
Thanks. I remember our conversations on Tex. In the beginning of all that I honestly didn’t understand the Sox drive to get him given Lowell, youkilis and lars anderson.
But I know the Sox organization is a good one and as they continued pursuing him I knew there had to be a very good reason why. Conversations with dennis, ray and yourself were particularly interesting in that regards.
I have to say – he’s a remarkable player. A player’s whose value you don’t fully understand until you watch him play everyday.
I’m going to say this honestly not to rub anything in – but just for a point of analysis. Given the way the seasons have shaken out – with Nady getting hurt, Papi’s production being strange, and Lowell’s health – Tex has turned into a much bigger deal than he was when he signed.
Without Tex the yankees have no shot at the division. None. You guys run away with it. I think Theo knew that. Fortunately, for us Cashman did as well and kept working on Hal to sign tex (I honestly do think hal had to be convinced).
By my rough calculations, Tex signing with the Yankees, given all that’s happenned this year, was a swing of +15 wins for the yanks compared to what would have happened if he’d been with the Sox. The yankees would have been around -75 runs created/runs saved worse and the Sox around +75 runs created/saved better. 150 runs = 15 net wins.
I never would have guessed that’s how big his impact would have been. Not even close.
I liked the Martinez trade for you guys. It just made too much sense and you guys really needed the bat. Your offense will stabilize especially if they replace Varitek with VMart (which is what Tito should do as often as possible).
It’ll going to be a brutal race.
BTW I was very surprised to see Reddick get called up from AA. He wasn’t having that great a season though the reports on him were very good (seems to have moved past Lars…).
Thoughts on Bucchholz? Caffardo’s column today on Clay as interesting. Great secondary stuff, but his fastball is very straight. That’s the one concern I’ve always had on him. He’s too talented to not be good, however.
We should never trade prospects again. They might not receive proper care and hugs in another organization.
“We should never trade prospects again. They might not receive proper care and hugs in another organization.”
unless the deal includes Jonathan Sanchez. then give SF whatever they want.
I’ve said for some time Dan Haren is overrated put him in a big enviorment he cracks.. that guy is so overrated it’s not even funny.
Nice plug about SJ44’s nephew – from ESPN’s article:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=4373943
“This year the Pirates elicited some quizzical looks when they used the fourth overall pick on Boston College catcher Tony Sanchez, a nice player who was generally considered a late-first-round talent. It looked like a replay of 2001, when the Pirates selected Ball State pitcher Bryan Bullington a spot ahead of B.J. Upton, or 2007, when they selected Clemson pitcher Daniel Moskos ahead of Matt Wieters.
The Pirates, naturally, don’t see it that way. Coonelly insists the Pirates would have drafted San Diego State pitcher Stephen Strasburg or North Carolina first baseman Dustin Ackley if they’d had the opportunity. After that, the Pirates considered the first round a grab bag, and believed that Sanchez was better than a late-first-round selection.
“We liked Sanchez a lot — more than some others, probably,” Coonelly said. “We think he can be a very good and potentially All-Star catcher. We believe in the bat, and we believe in the person and the leadership skills he brings. Was it signability? No. It was the player we wanted.”"
Sadly, all they want is Nady but Cashman will not budge.
Dan Haren is a terrific pitcher. There’s nothing over rated about him. I’d take him on the yankees in a heart beat. He reminds me a bit of Moose in his prime.
“unless the deal includes Jonathan Sanchez. then give SF whatever they want.”
I wouldn’t give up first tier prospects for Haren, he’s overrated, that said I wouldn’t give 1st tier for Sanchez either, he’d be third tier type prospects.
brandon, i havent been here in a while, and i’m glad to see things havent changed. you still rank high on the unintentional comedy meter, and im sure the lohud community thanks you for it.
CB, that’s a very interesting post – I’d not thought about it that way. I always thought that Phil used his legs quite a bit, which is why he was considered to have such good mechanics (or, at least, that’s part of the reason). A pitcher can use his legs without necessarily pitching like Seaver, correct?
When I saw AJ pitch in ST, I thought he had a very fluid motion. I suppose I can see why he gets out of whack sometimes with his(as Cone has called it many times), “wheeling and dealing” motion (the way he turns his back and the way he flings his arm after the pitch is thrown), and so I guess they aren’t considered efficient mechanics, but they didn’t appear “bad” to me. Again, he looked like he had a fluid motion. Perhaps it’s like a golfer with a weird swing – it’s not technically perfect, but it works for the golfer.
Back to Phil – for some reason, there has been gobs of controversy re: his mechanics. I suppose his mechanics were altered after his leg injuries (understandably so), as Phil was left to regain his confidence in his legs. Afterwards, many people on different boards insisted that the Yankees changed his mechanics from 3/4 slot to more over the top. This “expert”, Carlos Gomez, said the mechanics caused Phil to lose velocity and command. From what I can tell on other boards, Phil is now back to his old, 2006 mechanics…..I have no clue about this stuff, but as Phil’s stuff is clearly back to what it was when he was the top pitching prospect, there must be something to it.
Brandon
How about Tim Lincecum? Is he overrated also?
It’s not that hard to see Haren would get whooped in the AL best move he made was leave to the NL, he’s still overrated. I was watching the D-Backs spot him 6 and literally the Mets AAAA roster dropped 5 on him, he had to be saved vs the Mets. Please man this guy is so lucky he’s not in the AL.
“Brandon
How about Tim Lincecum? Is he overrated also?”
No.
So Brandon, you’re basing your assesment on Dan Haren on one outing ??? Even for you that is crazy…..He’s an outstanding pitcher who excell in either league, and in any era of baseball
Wow this blog is quiet tonight. Is that my fault? I am sorry I turned my back on you folks for Jon & Kate Plus 8
“It’s not that hard to see Haren would get whooped in the AL best move he made was leave to the NL, he’s still overrated. ”
Sure it is. It’s very hard to see. Because he pitched in the AL. And was great. That doesn’t matter?
And I don’t want to hear that it was only the AL West either unless you also want to tell me that the numbers that Felix Hernandez has been putting up are suspect.
Harren is on his way to a hall of fame type career given his tremendous success from such a young age.
I hope Halladay is overrated too… tomorrow night.
Haren = OVERRATED *end of story*
Haren is only overrated by those who don’t know baseball…
Next year the Yanks will continue to get younger and more athletic (finally!!!). Last year, oldies like Giambi, Mussina, Abreu, etc. came off the books. After this year, we continue the trend of getting younger and more athletic by:
Cervelli (23 years old) becomes the backup catcher as Molina (34 years old) comes off the books
Dump Ransom (33 years old) and bring up Ramiro Pena (24 years old)
Bring up AJAX (20 years old)
Damon and Matsui come off the books (both 35 years old)
I’m loving these new Yankees – infusion of youth (Joba, Hughes, Melky, Gardner, Aceves, Coke, etc.) and veterans (Jeter, Mo, Posada, Tex, etc.)
Next year the Yanks will continue to get younger and more athletic (finally!!!). Last year, oldies like Giambi, Mussina, Abreu, etc. came off the books. After this year, we continue the trend of getting younger and more athletic by:
Cervelli (23 years old) becomes the backup catcher as Molina (34 years old) comes off the books
Dump Ransom (33 years old) and bring up Ramiro Pena (24 years old)
Bring up AJAX (20 years old)
Damon and Matsui come off the books (both 35 years old)
I’m loving these new Yankees – infusion of youth (Joba, Hughes, Melky, Gardner, Aceves, Coke, etc.) and veterans (Jeter, Mo, Posada, Tex, etc.
Brandon… I’M AWESOME ! SOMEBODY FIND ME THE REAL CC SABATHIA !!!!
August 3rd, 2009 at 10:31 pm
Haren = OVERRATED *end of story*
***
Brandon- did you stamp your feet as you were typing that?
The only AL East team that gives Haren trouble is Toronto. He’s death on Boston and the Yanks. He’s tough on the Angels, too. I’d take 6 years of Haren any time.
Haren did pretty well in the AL, he started the All-Star game for the American league one year. Even though he’s in the NL now, the Arizona park is a launching pad so his sub 2.5 ERA is a lot more impressive than pitchers operating out of pitchers parks.
Zack Greinke is the guy that reminds me of a young Mike Mussina though. Lean body type, textbook fluid mechanics, wicked breaking stuff, changes speed on all his pitches with plus-plus command, holds runners and fields his position well, and a reserved but funny guy who’s honest to a fault.
The Yankees are doing a great job of mixing Veterans and developing young players – makes for an all around great team!
We’ve certainyl learned our lesson about not signing old has beens like Randy Johnson, etc. while giving up our best prospects. I’m glad we’re focusing on player development, and not making bad signings these days.
When Haren was in the AL playing the Yankees, John Sterling’s man crush on him was the same level as his man crush on Halladay
Yeah… Dan Haren is garbage.
Brandon likes to provoke.
GB7,
How did Kroenke look in his spot start tonight?
I’m going to say this knowing the answer – but did you see anything that led you to believe that he might be able to man the #5 spot if mitre bombs?
There’s not a lot left in AAA. And if he went 5 tonight he’s at least pretty stretched out.
Dan Haren has pitched about 145 innings in his career against the Yankees, Red Sox, and Angels, the 3 best teams in the league while he was with the A’s. He has an ERA of about 3.45, Doc Halladay is probably the only other pitcher with comparable stats. He is 9-9 against those teams, which is pretty good considering the A’s sucked in those years.
don’t forget about Montero (19 years old) who came make his Major League debut either late next year of 2011.
The Yanks traded Javier Vasquez, Brad Halsey and Dianer Navarro for Randy Johnson. If you could go back in your time machine to New Years 2004, do you remake that trade?
Javier Vasquez couldn’t handle NY………if he wasn’t traded for Johnson, he would have been traded for someone else.
CB
August 3rd, 2009 at 10:42 pm
GB7,
How did Kroenke look in his spot start tonight?
I’m going to say this knowing the answer – but did you see anything that led you to believe that he might be able to man the #5 spot if mitre bombs?
There’s not a lot left in AAA. And if he went 5 tonight he’s at least pretty stretched out.
————————————————————
He made one mistake in 5 innings on a homer. 1 walk. Great control and everything moved. This is his 2nd start. His first was 4 innings of 1 run on the 27th and came back 2 days later with an inning of relief. Looks a lot like a young Pettitte. teach him the cutter/refine it and he could fill the 5th gap. 63 pitches in 5 innings is impressive anywhere. 13 pitches an inning. 7 ground outs, 5 flies and 3 strikeouts. Nothing was hit hard except the homer and 1 fly ball.
Erica , Yes ….Although I thought they never gave Vasquez a chance after the debacle that October…..One thing I give credit to Randy Johnson, even though he was never fully healthy during his tenure in the Bronx, he always took the ball…..
I love how the Yanks have slowly integrated their youngsters into the fabric of the team. The farm system has had it’s ups and downs this year (what IS up with all the TJ surgeries?), but Cervelli and Pena proved they can get the job done at the big league level. Joba has turned things around and Phil’s stuff has returned – he’s looking fantastic. Next year, we will still have two youngsters in the rotation …..but Joba will be further along. I hope Phil goes to winter ball to get innings and to work on his change – he’ll have his share of ups and downs next year, which I’m already sure will have people tearing their hair out. I’m not sure how good Ian Kennedy is – if he’s even suited for the American League, given that his stuff is mediocre – but he’ll be back and will give us added depth. I’m very curious about this McAllister – is he back pitching?
“Looks a lot like a young Pettitte. teach him the cutter/refine it and he could fill the 5th gap.”
His numbers have been great all year.
However, does he look ready for a call up now if mitre continues to do poorly?
Or does he look like a potential Chase Wright redux?
Now Javier Vazquez is a guy who clearly benefits from the difference in level of competition in the two leagues. Navarro was an All-Star last year but he’s not exactly doing awesome this year, plus the Yankees seem loaded in the catching prospects department.
GB7 I can’t believe I’m saying this, can he be a #5 SP in 3 weeks?
How can you tell if a pitcher is just organizational filler and if he can actually help a ML team? Obviously the guys will exceptional stuff are easy to spot, what about those who don’t have that kind of stuff? What do teams look for? What makes Kroenke a possibility to man the 5th spot? I’m curious…….thanks!
McAllister is still out, Betsy. Since the 11th of July.
GB, thanks – I wonder if he will pitch again this year
CB
August 3rd, 2009 at 10:51 pm
“Looks a lot like a young Pettitte. teach him the cutter/refine it and he could fill the 5th gap.”
His numbers have been great all year.
However, does he look ready for a call up now if mitre continues to do poorly?
Or does he look like a potential Chase Wright redux?
————————————————————
I’d like to see him in a couple of 6 or 7 inning games, but, that takes it to around 21 August, but, he can’t do worse than Mitre has. I’m also anxious to see Hirsh’s next start, too.
Pat M….
August 3rd, 2009 at 10:49 pm
Erica , Yes ….Although I thought they never gave Vasquez a chance after the debacle that October…..One thing I give credit to Randy Johnson, even though he was never fully healthy during his tenure in the Bronx, he always took the ball…..
***
I always wondered how different Randy Johnson’s time in the Bronx could have been if it wasn’t for that photographer incident on day one. Obviously, that had nothing to do with his mechanics, but he just started off all wrong
Anyway, I am off to bed! Good night Yankee people
what kind of major league player do you all think AJAX can be? I’m talking his major league stats after 2-3 years in the majors?
Perhaps Something like:
.290, between 15-20 HR, 30 Stolen Bases
Thoughts? How does he compare to Melky & Gardner? I think Gardner has the edge in speed, but Melky and AJAX might be very similar in stats…
Hallo, hallo.
Lively discussion all around. Brandon, thanks for the comic relief, CB thanks for the technical talk.
My stupid story of the day. Most of you know that where I live is literally the size of a speck of sand on a globe.
So, I’m walking out of the library and stop at the free magazines table. Laying right on top of recent SI (there was even this year’s swimsuit edition), AARP, Gourmet, etc. was a piece of propaganda all the way from Massachusetts. It’s a relatively recent edition of “PawSox Patter” with articles about how Bowden helped knock out the Yankees before being sent down and interviews with Buchholz. I nearly fell over with shock that this publication found its way into my corner of the world.
Of course they black out the personal info, so the Red Sox fan that lives in my neighborhood is safe for another day….
ray, dennis, christina, brian, do you folks subscribe to the PawSawx Patter? It’s a nice little newsletter. Those who live around Scranton-is there something similar?
Betsy
August 3rd, 2009 at 10:56 pm
GB, thanks – I wonder if he will pitch again this year
————————————————————
supposedly, it’s just a tired arm, but he pitched 160 innings last year after only 71 innings in 2007. Big jump. He’s at 92 right now.
GB, wow………how’d the Yankees let the kid make such a jump? He’s a TJ waiting to happen……
Betsy
August 3rd, 2009 at 11:06 pm
GB, wow………how’d the Yankees let the kid make such a jump? He’s a TJ waiting to happen……
Not sure from 2006 to 2007, he went from 35 to 71. Strictly a control freak. For a young kid, that’s great news. I’ll see if there’s any updates on him. I’ll post what I find, if any.
Mel, maybe they have the Scranton Scraper or the Yankee Yakuza.
You, of course realize that all Yankees are evil.
Thanks, GB!
Sure thing, Betsy
Here’s the latest on Zach McAllister, dated, 17 July 2009, Betsy.
http://blog.nj.com/yankees/200.....on_dl.html
As for AJax, whether he sees the big league level is still questionable.. a good chance the Yankees will get stupid again and get into the Matt Holliday or Jason Bay sweepstakes. Remember, this team spent a ton of money last year.. if they don’t win the World Series it could happen again.
hmm not much going on today I see.. The Haren being overrated comment would be funny except it’s coming from someone who wanted to sign Jonathan Sanchez and Mark Prior.. It makes you wonder who this person is really rooting for.
GB7,
haha. “The Yankees Empire Strike Back”.
Went to milb.com and was pleasantly surprised to learn that the Yankees get the win against Pawtucket. A quick look at the standings is also a pleasant surprise. We all know they got off to a hot, unsustainable start. And that they hit a few bumps along the way. But even without the big name pitching they had early on, they’re still comfortably in first place with the best IL record.
Has it been consistent offense or have they been getting good pitching from unexpected sources?
m
August 3rd, 2009 at 11:29 pm
GB7,
haha. “The Yankees Empire Strike Back”.
Went to milb.com and was pleasantly surprised to learn that the Yankees get the win against Pawtucket. A quick look at the standings is also a pleasant surprise. We all know they got off to a hot, unsustainable start. And that they hit a few bumps along the way. But even without the big name pitching they had early on, they’re still comfortably in first place with the best IL record.
Has it been consistent offense or have they been getting good pitching from unexpected sources?
————————————————————
Pawtucket has been shut out 15 times this year and only scored 1 tonight. They have hitting issues.
I remember that Josh Towers when he was here in Toronto.. man he stunk! I remember that game against the Mets in June ‘06 where he was hammered.. I was actually there to see it in person.
We be gangsters.
you cant pay attention to large jumps in innings pitched in short season ball compared to long season A ball. Guys in the GCL & SS pitch in expended spring training before the season starts.
m
This ones for you.
Baseball players may like pie but football players prefer cake….
http://www.boston.com/sports/f.....thday?pg=6
Gregory,
Oh, Lord. You just reminded me of an article I saw today. It said that Holliday just made himself a huge chunk of money after resurrecting his season. Not so coincidentally after going back to the NL.
I hope and pray that the Yankees stay far away from Holliday. I would save the money for a Crawford or Halladay should they hit the market.
pat,
Thanks for the yummy pix.
GB7,
Sorry, I wasn’t clear was I? I meant that the SWB Yankees were still doing well, in spite of not having primo pitching. But I can see what you mean about the Pawtucket offense, they’re way down in the standings.
Andy has been great, but they leave him in too long every time. It pisses me off every time I see him in the 7th inning. He just doesn’t have the strength for that anymore, it seems.
Oh and regarding this season being profitable, wasn’t he originally offered more than the maximum he can make this season?
Does anyone here believe that Tim Lincecum will endure many injuries because of his mechanics? He has a violent delivery.
Trumpetman August 4th, 2009 at 12:04 am
Does anyone here believe that Tim Lincecum will endure many injuries because of his mechanics? He has a violent delivery.
Violent delivery, throws across his body..sounds like someone else..Sandy Koufax. Guarantee he ends up the same way. Dominate pitcher..done by 30.
August 3rd, 2009 at 11:57 pm
pat,
Thanks for the yummy pix.
GB7,
Sorry, I wasn’t clear was I? I meant that the SWB Yankees were still doing well, in spite of not having primo pitching. But I can see what you mean about the Pawtucket offense, they’re way down in the standings.
————————————————————Scranton actually has had a very good pitching staff this year. They have a 3.38 team ERA. They have made a lot of errors that let in 47 unearned runs, though. 77 errors have hurt them. They do have a low batting average, though. Other than Duncan, Rodriguez and Miranda, not much power. They have 2/3rd of the homers.
Matt K.
August 4th, 2009 at 12:08 am
Trumpetman August 4th, 2009 at 12:04 am
Does anyone here believe that Tim Lincecum will endure many injuries because of his mechanics? He has a violent delivery.
Violent delivery, throws across his body..sounds like someone else..Sandy Koufax. Guarantee he ends up the same way. Dominate pitcher..done by 30.
————————————————————
Koufax was straight over the top. Lincecum is closer to Smoltz than anybody else.
I saw there was some people wondering if the Rays would be dealing Crawford due to salary concerns, as soon as this off season. Can you imagine the package they would be looking for to give up Crawford?
Kazmir is also being talked about as a trade, but his stock has dropped as he doesn’t stay healthy and hasn’t been having a great year.
Lincecum does have a pretty violent delivery, and he isn’t a very big guy. It seems the odds are he will be injured from it over the long haul, but he may just be a “freak”.
Johnny D. I think Pettitte had been offered 10 million, then they took that off the table when he held out.
The deal he got isn’t that different if he gets all the performance bonuses.
I assume Ben Sheets is also waiting to come back next year right? He will be another name that pops up and probably worthy of an incentive laden deal.
So tough, Duscherer won’t clear waivers, Meche might. Of guys who will be out there there isn’t much past them unless you actually like Harrang or Arroyo.
Not that I like him, but would the Cubs ever throw Zambrano out there? He’s making absurd money that I am sure the Cubs have to be inclined for someone to get stuck with the contract.
Maddon on Garza throwing at Tex
“We thought in the course of that series that Longo had been thrown at,” Maddon said. “We also thought during the previous series in New York, Carlos Pena had been thrown at. So as the game was in progress the other day, I just think Matt threw a pitch inside, as far as I can tell.
“I think Matt’s choice of words may not have been as well thought out as they could have been. I just saw Matt pitching inside to Teixeira, and the ball happened to tip him. I also saw a ball go over Longo’s head, after he had been hit Monday by Jonathan Albaladejo. So I think there’s a difference.”
Greinke doesn’t like The Trop
“The Rays’ PR department promotes the game like it’s a club and not a baseball game,” he told MLB.com. “It almost doesn’t feel like you’re playing baseball when you’re playing here. They do stupid music stuff. They have dancers everywhere, they have a DJ. They just do a bunch of stupid stuff that isn’t baseball.”
http://www2.tbo.com/content/20.....s-defense/
“Stealing Jason Bay from the Sox would really trigger a mass suicide watch in beantown.”
Why would you want to steal Jason Bay?
Funny, but, it never bothered Maddon when his pitchers were hitting 65 batters a year in ‘06 and ‘07. That team has always hit batters, and, especially Yankee batters.
Tampa Bay cut loose Wade Townsend…..Wow what a shame…..
GB7.
Hope the twins are doing well. IMO that is far important than any talk about the Sox, Yanks, etc. I hope they get united at home very soon. Hope all is well in Midway.
Mel.
I have never heard of that publication. Perhaps I am not hard core enough?
CB.
Great posts. Tex is a great player. Too bad the ladies man got involved in the process…damn.
-dennis
GreenBeret7
August 4th, 2009 at 12:34 am
Funny, but, it never bothered Maddon when his pitchers were hitting 65 batters a year in ‘06 and ‘07. That team has always hit batters, and, especially Yankee batters.
————————————————
I agree same with Francona and red sox they whine and complain about Joba but they didn’t seem to mind when Pedro was on the mound and throwing at yankee hitters.
Also I remember what Maddon was talking about the pitcher that hit Pena at yankee stadium was Pettitte. LOL @ Pettitte trying to throw at someone on purpose. Not to mention Garza threw one by Swisher head in april.
“Tampa Bay cut loose Wade Townsend…..Wow what a shame…..”
Is he still hurt? If not IDK would the Yanks…I mean he was a top 5 pick.
Walkoff in Oakland. 2-rbi double for Rajai Davis.
Ugh. Maddon is such a, what’s the sports term? “here kitty-kitty”?
Everyone likes to make like he’s a guru, but he’s got a long way to go.
He’s still acting like he’s got a chip on his shoulder. Why should the AL chammps feel threatened by the Yankees?
OUCH. Manny Ramirez with 0 RBI in the last 42 at bats. His last was on the pinch hit grand slam.
dennis-Costanza
August 4th, 2009 at 12:42 am
GB7.
Hope the twins are doing well. IMO that is far important than any talk about the Sox, Yanks, etc. I hope they get united at home very soon. Hope all is well in Midway.
————————————————————
Thanks for the kind words and thoughts, Dennis. It’s much appreciated. Hope all is well with you and Ms Amy, also.
Anthony could be home within a week. They want him to be over 6 pounds, first. Sidney’s got a long way to go. She’s still just under 4 pounds. She’s a little cutie, though. Looks like me. Morgan (granddaughter) is taking it hard that the kids can’t go home together. Other than being small, they are doing well, healthwise, though.
It has rained every day (thank God)….keeps me from being able to mow the grass.
A poster said that Francona complains when Joba hits players. Well I like it, and I hope in this upcoming series that he hits either Ortiz, youkilis, Bay, Pedroia. I’m glad that the yankees are going after the opposing team especially after all the years of Pedro hitting yankee players.
I went to the Cyclones game tonight, and I discovered something.
What every minor league park ought to have, or how the only pitch I can throw for strikes is a 30 MPH knuckleball…
http://bit.ly/eLZSH
GB7.
Great post and update. All good.
Nick. You home yet?
-dennis
dennis,
You get a free subscription to the magazine if you join the kids’ fan club. Would you make the age limit?
I have a feeling you used to be hard core enough, but you’ve been rubbing elbows here too much. GB7’s going to have to get some intel from Amy-I suspect you wear pinstriped boxers just like Ray.
Mel.
Age limit? Nope. I missed it. 12/11/69
Yankee boxers? I would rather a KC Royals thong.
“Not that there is anything wrong with that”
-dennis
http://sports.espn.go.com/stat.....id=4374853
Here’s the Bill Simmons/Jack-O podcast.
It’s long (50+ min), but a must-listen. Great tail-between-the-legs stuff mixed with some great humor.
Funny line about Varitek reaching the “he calls a great game” status. No bat, can’t throw out a runner, but “he calls a great game.”
Also, he echoes what I thought about the Red Sox’s recent tear. They’ve gone into “f-u mode”. I thought it was because they want to PROVE those championship were legit. Either way, they’re motivated.
I always love Simmons’ columns and podcasts despite his disgusting love of the Celtics, Patriots and Sux! He knows his stuff and he’s one of the funniest people ESPN have ever hired. I love his podcasts in the fall where he predicts the NFL point spreads each week…he has some really classic one-liners.
Couple of baseball things:
1) How much has Dustin Nippert improved this year??? His ERA is now under 3.30…I didn’t think he’d be more than an average ML journeyman reliever, but he is really impressing me with his poise and pitch selection on the mound.
2) For all that Andre Ethier has done this year and last year (and he definitely has been a great bat for LA this year once again)…he is a bit like Cano this year with men on base, although not quite as startling:
Empty: .301/.369/.602
RISP: .228/.350/.409
He’s also already grounded into 17 double plays…3rd in the NL, and his career high is just 10.
Good morning, dennis. Yes, I am back home. I actually saw your reply to my post yesterday several hours later, when I lande, and replied back. Thanks again for your well wishes.
I recall that you are a ‘fan’ of my ‘photography’, so I’m going to try to get a few recent pics up onto my flickr page. This will relieve me of any potential pangs of guilt I might feel over wishing losses to the Sox.
Aww, who am I kidding… that would never happen.
If anyone needs a smile on their face, just visit:
http://www.bostondirtdogs.com/
Rebecca-
Wow!
Your motion looks like Tim Lincencum.
What was up with the bare feet?
I’m so glad I shared Boston dirtdogs with this blogs.
YOU GUYS should’ve read it when Gagne was on the RS team.
The Yankees AT THAT TIME was still managed by TORRE.
They were 13.5 games out,and won the wildcatd.
The RS were scared because the Yankees were coming back and had momentum, and this site was off the hook crazy,talking about the players.
agree same with Francona and red sox they whine and complain about Joba but they didn’t seem to mind when Pedro was on the mound and throwing at yankee hitters.
Well Joba throws over people’s head and that will scare some people you know. I just wished Joba was on the NL. He wouldnt dare throw over anybody’s head because he would have gotten his due when he stepped at the batter’s box.
Trumpetman
I never made fun of any Yankee players for doing steroids. I said many times that I wouldnt be surprised about anybody these days. It doesnt matter which team they belong.
All players should have this kind of contract.
The incentives in this deal are dumb. Is there really a 500K difference between pitching 160 innings and 170 innings? Or 180 to 190 innings?
Shouldn’t the player be rewarded on whether or not he pitched well? Say ERA? WHIP? Perhaps wins? Now you’re paying him simply on health, so he can go out pitch to a 7.77 ERA the rest of the year but because the Yankees have no other option but to keep him in the rotation he will make all of his money.