Pitching matchups for the Jays series
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Aug 03, 2009 
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No Mitre vs. the Sox is a good thing.
Give Joba a few more days, keep that innings limit down.
Yanks are in a tough spot here. Could easily get swept… but nothing they can really do about it…
I never thought I’d say this. But can the Yanks call up Kei Igawa? Please!!! I just don’t think he can be any worse than Mitre at this point.
“Yanks are in a tough spot here. Could easily get swept… but nothing they can really do about it…”
Coulda kept Joba in his regular spot. They go 0-2 here, it diminishes going 3-1 vs. Boston to some degree. Games all count the same.
Sweep!
CB,
From the last thread. Agreed. Just saying that this qualifies as a time where you to must pay because our depth disappeared. I had Hughes, Aceves, Kennedy as my #6-8 on the depth chart. Due to injuries of Damaso and Bruney and ineffectiveness (Veras & Edwar), Hughes and Aceves had to cover. And the big hit was Wang, not once, but twice.
Nothing will come for free. So, in order to add a player or two via waiver wire, they will obviously have to go over their budgetary guidelines or go to battle with the team as is and pray that there are no more injuries.
Halladay is pitching for Toronto????
Perhaps they can play the games before it’s time to second-guess pushing Joba back and how they could get swept and all this nonsense? Of course, Doc Halladay is God incarnate on this forum though so I wouldn’t expect anyone to think the Yankees have a snowball’s chance tomorrow, but of course they do. Ditto for Wednesday no matter how bad Mitre has been.
I am from the scranton area. they have a good pitching team this year. bring up Kei!!
They beat Halladay last time around. I think this helps them with their approach to him this time. I wouldn’t give this game to Halladay just because he’s Halladay. But then again, I never, just as a personal approach, try to guess the result based on the match-ups. Every day is a new opportunity. Great thing about baseball.
thank u jimmy t. that’s all i needed to hear. It’s time for the K-Man!!!
I saw in the last thread people were debating Tony Fernandez HOF stats. What about Omar Vizquel?
As Per http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....-deal.html
You thought the Jake Peavy deal was a surprise? The Red Sox, Mariners and Padres discussed a trade that would have made the Peavy acquisition look like the Jason Hirsh deal, according to Geoff Baker of the Seattle Times. Baker hears that the Red Sox gave the Mariners the chance to choose five of the following players in exchange for Felix Hernandez:
Clay Buchholz
Daniel Bard
Justin Masterson
Nick Hagadone
Michael Bowden
Felix Doubront
Josh Reddick
Yamaico Navarro
The Mariners apparently turned down the deal, at which point the Padres became involved in discussions about a possible three-way trade. The Mariners would have received Adrian Gonzalez, Buchholz and prospects in the deal. They would have sent Felix to the Red Sox and dealt Brandon Morrow, Phillippe Aumont and Carlos Triunfel to the Padres, who would have received prospects from the Red Sox as well. In the end, Baker says the Mariners nixed the deal.
Time for Mitre to step up and prove that he belongs on the team. Very happy Girardi and the staff re-arranged the pitching order to give Joba extra days off and avoid having Mitre face the red sox.
Steve B
You Want Mitre pitching to the sox in the first game of the series? And blow out the pen for the rest of the series? C’Mon Dude….
I’ve said it before, Halladay is just a bully.
All the Yankees have to do is stand up to him, punch him in the mouth, and he’ll back down.
He has decent numbers against the Red Sox as compared to against us, but against the RS, and I watch their games, he just walks batter, falls behind 2-0, 3-1 in counts, almost as if he is afraid of them. Still pretty good numbers versus Boston, nonetheless, indicating how great a pitcher he is.
Btw,
If Mitre gives up 6 runs in the 2nd or 3rd inning on Wednesday, a la Burnett against the WS,
I say we just leave him out there like that college kid for 250 pitches, or until his arm falls off.
“You Want Mitre pitching to the sox in the first game of the series? And blow out the pen for the rest of the series? C’Mon Dude….”
Don’t want him pitching at all, but he is. Against whom he pitches is inconsequential to me. Games against the Jays count the same as the games against the Red Sox. I’d just assume see Joba, who is on an absolute roll right now, not have his routine broken up by extra rest.
Jim Pir-one
I agree Jim ! .. Sorta like when Rocky cut the Russian !
Halladay is HUMAN !>. Stand up and knock him down !
A Joba/Halladay showdown would’ve been worthy.
DOOMED
Really how bad has it gotten when people are calling for the K-Man? WOW.
I really dont see why we dont give him a try though. Hey, he’s breaking records in AAA!!!
Brent -
So essentially,
The padres would have gotten involved in the deal to help the Red Sox land Felix Hernandez, while gettin absolutely nothing themselves.
Wow, never am I surprised, but this has me on the tip of being surprised. They’d give up A-Gonz to another team so that that team could give Felix to the Red Sox.
Hey, here’s an idea, what about a straight up deal between the Padres and Mariners, A-Gonz for Felix, with other players included. Nawwwwww, that’d make too much sense.
And people give Theo Handstein the credit. It’s pretty darn easy when you’re getting handed everything.
Luckily for my daily chest pains, this did not go through.
Joba is going to have to pitch on extra rest this year unless he’s going to throw way over his projected innings and risk blowing his arm out next year. And, I don’t think it’s a matter of “worry about next year when it comes”, because that kind of philosophy doesn’t really seem to work with young pitchers (Edinson Volquez the latest casualty, and Mark Prior just got released, lest we forget).
At the Hardball Times, Adam Guttridge uses his trade evaluation system to break down some of last week’s deals. He says the Phillies, Red Sox and White Sox overpaid to acquire star players.
======================
But they were the only teams that were able to get deals done. GM’s. Nothing but a bunch of prospect huggers.
Not so much that we’re facing Hallday, but that Pettitte has to navigate at the same time RHs like Rios, Wells, Lind and Hill…
Going 1-1 here would be a gift.
If Red Sox sweep Tampa, then we could be 1-2 games back of Boston going into weekend series, where then 3-1 would do nothing but get us back to about even.
These two Toronto games are important.
The White Sox overpaid. The Red Sox and Phillies got great deals.
Dusty strikes again:
Edinson Volquez had Tommy John surgery and will miss a year
“Hey, here’s an idea, what about a straight up deal between the Padres and Mariners, A-Gonz for Felix, with other players included. Nawwwwww, that’d make too much sense.”
It would defeat the Padres apparent purpose of getting guys 5-6 years away from free agency and the real money that comes with it.
Steve,
While games vs the Jays technically do count the same as games against the Sox, a win or a loss represents a full-game swing in the standings, which would be far more impactful against the 2nd place team currently half a game behind. A loss to the Jays would only hurt if the Sox were successful against their opponent.
John Lackey is a FA after this season, and if I remember correctly, has not had the smoothest time with the Angels’ front office in terms of negotiations. Something about extensions and such.
I wonder if this is part of Cash’s calculations in pitcher acquisitions. Why pay exorbitant prices – money and low-cost talent (re:young players with a lot of upside) now when you can just pay money later (the offseason). Sure, it makes the here and now a bit more dicey, but it potentially sets the Yanks up for years ahead, and besides one specific player doesn’t guarantee anything in terms of making the playoffs.
I know it’s a daydream right now, but CC-AJ-Lackey-Joba-Phil sounds pretty good. And with Damon, Matsui, Pettitte and Molina coming off the books, it could work.
Part of a GM’s mission is to look not just to the here and now, but to the future also.
Hey, an early baseball game.
Greinke v. Kazmir. Greinke in a little jam right now.
Im aware of that Steve B,
but I like to exaggerate things.
The fact remains, it serves no purpose for the Padres to get involved in a 3 way deal to help the REd Sox while getting unproven ESPN touted prospects themselves.
The Red Sox have had a lot of problems with the Rays the last couple of years, especially on the road.
A sweep of TB by the Red Sox is not impossible but unlikely.
All the Yankees need from Mitre is a 6 inning quality start and anything else is a bonus.
If Pettitte has a start like his last one the Yankees have a fighting chance against Halladay.
is that all? 6 quality innings?
Re: Joba’s pitch count, here’s where needing to acquire a more serviceable #5 starter comes into play.
The only way Joba gets that rest is if Cashman can pick up a waiver arm in August. Because Mitre is not that arm – he’ll only tax the bullpen every 5 days.
The Red Sox #s3,4,5 may be questionable, but they are healthy, and they’ve already given Lester and Beckett extra rest during the AS break.
Joba could just be a piece which gets us into the playoffs. Once there, he could be shut down.
We need another arm to give him the time to get us there.
A game against a non-contender is not the same as one against a contender.
That’s a damn shame about Volquez.
Baker is like the plague with young arms.
Wow! Just noticed Texas, who is in the thick of the Wild Card race, have played 58 at home and 45 on the road. They’re not awful on the road, but they may prove significant.
“A game against a non-contender is not the same as one against a contender.”
Count the same in the standings.
Pettitte has actually pitched well in his last three starts. The offense just hasn’t scored enough runs for him.
They’ll be in good shape if he continues to pitch like he has since they’ve come back from the break.
And I think managers feel the same way, which is why we’re having Joba pitch, and Francona did the same with Lester.
This could be an ugly two games, but you never know, so the only thing to do is be positive.
SJ/CB – given the Yankees situation, what would you do to fix the holes? If I were confident in the first 4 starters, I would say you might be able to live with Mitre, but I’m not that confident in Joba and Pettitte (that is, I want to see more – though I don’t think Joba needs to keep pitching this well. He just needs to be solid or decent). Mitre’s performance on Friday was an utter disaster – he just killed the pen. I know he’s a 5th starter, but even 5th starters should be expected to give us 5/6 innings – 2 is unacceptable. I realize he’d pitched “ok” his first two outings, but those were not particularly good teams. The Sox are not world-beaters, but they are a good team and he was just horrific.
I think the pen is becoming a problem. Aceves is not the same (and Joe overused him in his first bame back), Bruney is not close to being back, Coke may be tired and Hughes has been ok (but not as sharp as before – perhaps he’s fatigued).
The worst part about that proposed deal is,
The Mariners nixed the deal
)
Not the Padres, who were getting nothing in return for a costcontrolled great first baseman. Not the Padres. Not the Padres nixing the deal. Not the Padres.
There must be some dreamworld where if the Red Sox ask for something, you feel it is necessary to help them.
Honestly, with that young team, what was Cinci thinking hiring Dusty Baker?
Some vet managers just get a free pass based on who they are, and not how they deal with young teams.
What a joke – Cinci is a good baseball town with alot of history.
And to boot, they trade for Scott Rolen, and, um, why????
Steve B,
But a win against the Red Sox is a loss for them. A win against the Blue Jays means the Red Sox could win or lose against whomever they’re playing.
If these games didn’t mean so much to the standings, you wouldn’t have managers rearranging their pitchers like deck chairs.
A little retrospective on Melky’s cycle from CBS that includes Sterlings call and quotes from teammates.
Melky won someone a new 2009 Lexus yesterday. If he wasn’t their favorite Yankee before, he might be now.
http://www.wcbs880.com/topic/p.....Id=3918244
Halladay is gettin whipped last few games. We’ll win tomorrow and lose Wednesday with Mitre…
“Not so much that we’re facing Hallday, but that Pettitte has to navigate at the same time RHs like Rios, Wells, Lind and Hill…”
Lind is left handed…
“If these games didn’t mean so much to the standings, you wouldn’t have managers rearranging their pitchers like deck chairs.”
Francona really isn’t. He’s pitching Lester on regular rest. As for them not meaning anything in the standings, I never said that. Just said wins (and losses) against the Jays count exactly the same as those that occur against the Red Sox.
Mark Prior has been released by the Padres?
What say you ?
“That’s a damn shame about Volquez.
Baker is like the plague with young arms.”
How is it Baker’s fault? In 2007 when Volquez was in Texas he threw a total of 178 innings in the majors and minors.
In 2008 he threw 196 innings under Baker’s tutelage. Not seeing how Baker ruined him.
I don’t see today’s game as an automatic loss. Halladay usually pitches great against us, and at home, but he hasn’t won in his last seven starts.
That’s because the Jays have a terrible offense, and considering how well Pettitte has thrown the ball lately AND his success on the road this year, he has a chance to shut them down.
People need Andy Pettitte to do what, exactly, to be content with his performance? Handstands? Cartwheels? He’s thrown 20 innings over 3 starts since the break, and he’s got a 23/3 K/BB ratio and has only given up 1 HR. Two of those starts were at home where he apparently is terrified of pitching. Any time he has a bad stretch or even a bad start the vultures start circling, but the guy is still getting the job done. I don’t understand all the “concern”. The hypothetical alternatives are not better than Andy.
“Halladay is gettin whipped last few games.”
If allowing 8 runs in 32 innings, while striking out 31 and walking 3 = gettin’ whipped, then I guess you’re correct.
So, by my calculations, then it will be Joba – AJ – CC- Pettitte for the Sox series? Trying to figure out how the rotation will play out for when I see the Yanks at Safeco in 2 weeks…
Yes, there are problems ahead with the pitching. I agree with Betsy’s comments re: the pen as of late.
Joba has finally come around the last few games but when he reaches his innings limit (possibly as soon as several weeks from now) the Yanks have no one to take that spot in the rotation (assuming you believe Joe G that Hughes will definitely not start this year). Mitre looked horrible his last start but we have no one to take that spot either.
What is the front office thinking, you may ask? They must know something we don’t.
So what will the pitching lineups be for the Sox? Do you pitch Joba on Thursday or skip his start and go with AJ? I think if Joba does pitch against the Sox he should really really really try to refrain from hitting any batters. As we saw in his last start, Teixiera got popped because of Joba’s foolishness with hitting opposing batters. The league is sick of it. Me too.
“I don’t see today’s game as an automatic loss. Halladay usually pitches great against us, and at home, but he hasn’t won in his last seven starts. ”
I don’t see today’s game as an automatic loss either….since we aren’t playing today.
Oh my goodness gracious… the games all count the same in the standings… a head-to-head matchup gives a chance to directly inflict a loss upon a rival for the same prize… matchups matter too, not just the opponent… Joba is a very talented young pitcher…
Ok, Steve B. I read hear that Lester was switched. So, disregard that part.
But I still think that games vs. contenders are more important than games vs. non-contenders.
A Yankee win vs. the Red Sox is a loss for them.
A Yankee win vs. the Jays or Oakland doesn’t mean a loss for the Red Sox.
“Francona really isn’t. He’s pitching Lester on regular rest.”
Lester is scheduled to face the Yankees on normal rest so there’s no reason to mess with him.
Also, the Red Sox have the Rays to worry about, who are still in the race. The Sox haven’t beaten the Rays in the season series since ’07, and if they’re not careful, the Rays could be just 3 games back come Thursday. They can’t afford to throw slop pitchers at the Trop, because you know the Rays are going to be playing those games like it’s the playoffs.
Folks, Joba is not leaving the rotation any time soon. He will be skipped when he can, but he is not leaving the rotation any time soon. He will be around 165 to 175 at the end of the season, and the playoffs are the playoffs.
Joba didn’t hit Longoria.
I think the Yankees also want to limit Joba’s innings a bit, and have a better chance to end the losses to Boston.
Andy has been doing great lately. He will give them a good chance against Halladay.
Serg needs to show something in this start; he’s not going to get too many more chances.
If Andy can go 6-7 then they can save Ace to back up Serg and have him on schedual to take over the #5 spot if necessary…
Joba going up and in is fair, despite the Rays’ contentions. How many batters has Joba actually hit?
I don’t have a problem with it. It is meant to make the batter feel uncomfortable, and its something that the Yankee pitchers haven’t done enough of.
Ok, Steve B. I read hear that Lester was switched. So, disregard that part.
They did switch him, Mel. But he’s going on a regular 4 days rest.
We should sweep the Jays. They traded Rolen and he had been a pain.
“In 2008 he threw 196 innings under Baker’s tutelage. Not seeing how Baker ruined him.”
I would check the pitches thrown. Especially look at the pitches thrown last September when he was hitting his high in innings pitched. 117, 119, 121 in 3 straight starts, and throwing 118 pitches in a 9-0 game vs the Cubs earlier in the season.
I think it says a lot about what Girardi thinks of Andy. No matter what, Andy steps up in big situations and he clearly wanted him to be available to pitch in the Sox series. He’s had some bad breaks his last couple of starts.
“Joba didn’t hit Longoria.”
True, but that didn’t look like an accident.
Speaking of which, I’m a little surprised to see Garza’s admission draw only a fine. The Duke of Discipline is going soft.
I am tired of this garbage that if the little girl Joba throws 200 inning s his arm is going to grenade into a thousand pieces. He is 23 6′” and 230, he is built like a bull. Andy Pettite, Whitey Ford, Halladay and Lincecum threw well over 200 innings in his second season .
They will get swept in Toronto and Boston unless they score runs like mad.
Quite honestly this pitching inning limit is unfounded and just hurts a team today and next year.
so after watching melky’s highlight over and over again..i am almost certain after sliding into 3rd base he gets up and yells “suck my balls” in spanish. which is quite hilarious
Greinke’s got nada today.
“Speaking of which, I’m a little surprised to see Garza’s admission draw only a fine. The Duke of Discipline is going soft.”
If Garza was a Yankee he would have been banned from baseball. Bud Selig would have invoked the best interests of baseball clause.
With John Smoltz pitching, we HAVE to win that first game Thursday night. Smoltz has been awful this year.
“I am tired of this garbage that if the little girl Joba throws 200 inning s his arm is going to grenade into a thousand pieces. He is 23 6?” and 230, he is built like a bull. Andy Pettite, Whitey Ford, Halladay and Lincecum threw well over 200 innings in his second season .”
How many innings did all those guys throw in the minor leagues and or college? Joba doesn’t have the base of minor league/college innings to allow him to go a ton of innings.
Yankees will fight like yesterday,to keep from being swept.
They knocked out a pitcher that’s really great,in 4,1 innings.
They beat Halladay the last time they played him,and know he can be beaten.BELIEVE Go Yankees!
Fatigue plays a role too.Isn’t this their 1st day off since the ASG,IF NOT,it has been a long while since their last off day,besides the break?
Mitre is one more bad game away from DFA Land
But please, God PLEASE, no Sidney Ponson, Round 3 (just DFA’ed by the freakin’ ROYALS).
I’d even consider Kei Ig….OK, well maybe not.
L to the 2nd
August 3rd, 2009 at 1:01 pm
Mitre is one more bad game away from DFA Land
But please, God PLEASE, no Sidney Ponson, Round 3 (just DFA’ed by the freakin’ ROYALS).
***
Let’s just face it. Sir Sidney Ponson is pinstripe destiny
Joba is on fire,(even though he’s due for a loss)and will do the Yankees proud against Smuttz!
Wow. Just as I say Greinke has nada, he fans Longoria, Zobrist and Pena with men on 2nd and 3rd.
4-1 Rays though.
Betsy,
You “fix” things by the players they have performing better.
You can’t always go outside the organization to fix problems.
Bullpen pitchers struggle from time to time. That’s just a fact of life. You live through the struggles and hope they get better.
They have 4 solid starting pitchers. That’s more than most teams, and one more than the Red Sox have, right now.
Its been a streaky team all year. They will continue to be that way the rest of the way.
Bottom line though is, there isn’t a lot to “fix”, since they are playing over .600 ball since Arod came back. That’s pretty damn good.
Have I ever mentioned how much I hate facing Roy Halladay?
And I am not even the one with the bat in my hands
If they don’t DFA Ransom soon I’m going to be sick. Unfortunately, he’ll probably stick around until Gardner comes back!
Where is Carl Pavano when you need him?
From Kim Jones’ Blog:
Jerry Hairston Jr.: Girardi loves his versatility. Girardi also loves Ransom. It’s hard to see the need for both.
======================================================
Ransome doesn’t even look like a Major League-ready player. What the %#$@* is he doing here?
Times like these are when Mr. Steinbrenner would step in and call a toad a toad.
“If allowing 8 runs in 32 innings, while striking out 31 and walking 3 = gettin’ whipped, then I guess you’re correct.”
For “Halladay standart” it is whipping.
“A game against a non-contender is not the same as one against a contender.”
Count the same in the standings.
Welcome to reality Steve
Since the Yanks are 0-8 against the sox…. they have no choice but to start there best four. Absolutely cannot start Mitre against the Sox. The Yanks have played soft enough against the Sox this year… time to get serious.
And who else is going to pitch… you want Igawa, who is not on the 40 man roster?, Injuries suck and you have to deal with em. Mitre is the only option in house now…
Let me explain why Joba is going to stay in the rotation for the remainder of the season, innings limit or not. Here are the points that the Yankees are considering:
1. What message does it send to the rest of the team if the #3 starter isn’t being used because of an abitrary innings limit.
2. How much revenue will the Yankees sacrifice by missing the playoffs and/or World Series?
There is clearly a correlation between huge jumps in innings for young pitchers (like Volquez, who went from 40 to 196 innings), I don’t think there is as much correlation between pitching 100 or 110 innings (which Joba has done for the past 2 seasons) and jumping to 160-170, which is about where he’ll be at the end of the regular season. So it’s an arbitrary increase and the Yankees won’t be able to justify telling Jeter, Arod, Mo, Damon, Posada, Pettitte, CC and AJ that they pulled him and reduced the chances of winning this year because they are concerned about a potential injury.
At the end of the day Joba will stay in the rotation. They will try to limit the number of innings if they can, but, if it’s a pennant race, he will pitch in turn, you can count on it.
The Joba debate is humorous to read from fans here that believe they are qualified to be a Major League GM.
Yankees in ’09 have had a plan for Joba and they are NOT going to change that plan at all. Whatever the innings limit they have for him, that number will not move a bit.
If anybody here believed that Joba would exceed the innings cap, then those people are foolish.
The Yankees will limit his innings pitched from this day forward. That includes saving innings for the post-season where he will return to the pen and make the team even stronger.
Its time to give Zach McAllister (AA) some exposure. He is a better option than Mitre or Igawa. Even Casey Fossum and Josh Towers would be better options from AAA than Igawa.
After three years Kei still can’t throw strikes consistently!
And Cashman needs to start earning his paycheck. With all the resources at his disposal, there is no way he should not have obtained a serviceable starter by the Trade Deadline. And please, Pete, don’t give me the excuse about his “acquisitions” during the off season -Any GM with access to that kind of money would’ve gotten those deals done!
As a matter of fact, they overpaid for C.C. by bidding against themselves.
Cashman needs to stop with the crying about “every team deals unfairly when it comes to the Yankees” baloney and get more creative.